← The Rent Roll with Jay Parsons
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Welcome.
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It's episode number 62 of the Rent Roll, your podcast on all things rental housing, apartments, BTR and SFR coming to you this week from the road in Florida here for some events in Orlando and Tampa with some great folks in the Sunshine State. I have had a blast. But thankfully I'll be grounded home for the next few weeks and over the holidays before we ramp it back up again over the New year after the new year, I should say so It's a, a crazy time of year. I know many of you are feeling that as well. That three week blitz between Thanksgiving and Christmas where we all try to wrap up everything for this calendar year and prep for the next year to come. One person our guest today is a person who has a big change coming on January 1st, Tony Eubanks. She started in the multifamily business back.
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In the in the day as an.
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Apartment renter, relocating from Illinois to Texas and needing some work, took a job leasing for her property manager. So started off leasing on site and what a story it's been. She later joined greystar and which obviously is the nation's largest property manager. And come January 1st, she'll take over as Greystar's head of US property management, overseeing a portfolio of nearly 1 million units nationally. So what a great story she has. And we'll dive into her story today and also pick her brain on trends and priorities in the property management space. Obviously a lot going on and we'll get her take on where the industry is growing. So that's going to be a fun conversation. And as always, we'll catch you up on the latest data and headlines impacting the rental housing space as well. So buckle in, let's get rolling before we do big thanks to our sponsors. Thank you to jpi, a leading apartment developer with a state of purpose to transform, building, enhance communities and improve lives. By the way, JPI was also the first employer for our guest today, Tony Eubank. So you'll hear her her talking about her early days at jpi. And also a big thank you to Madera Residential leading apartment owner and operator in Texas. Check them out@maderaresidential.com all right, so as always, kick it off with here's a chart. And this week's chart comes from the U.S. census, by the way. Thankfully the government shutdown's over so we're getting data again. That's a good thing. But this chart is multifamily rental vacancy going back to when the census start collecting vacancy data back in 1968. So before I share this. I'm gonna give you some context. Here's why I'm talking about this. I saw an article in CNBC Week and some of you shared it with me asking for my take. But so here it is. You know, the headline said that apartment vacancy has jumped to, quote, record highs, so. Record highs. Well, if you read deep enough into the article past the headline, you read that the data comes from apartment List. And, you know, as the for with the free data sources, I think apartment list actually does a solid job, but their data goes back to 2017, so that's less than a decade for those of you counting from home, eight years. So if we are grading on a weirdly skewed curve, then yeah, sure, let's call Vacancy a record high. And obviously I'm a data nerd for these things. So, you know, these type of things irk me probably more than they should. But in my mind, there's only two data sets I'd rely on for trends going back more than 10 years. One is the census, which obviously has its flaws, but it goes back to 1968 and it is directionally useful, even if it's different. And the other is the axiometrics, real page data. Of course, for more contemporary data, we do have a lot more viable options today, like costar, Yardi, et cetera, but they are, you know, relatively speaking, newer entrants into the apartment space. So, anyway, both RealPage and the Census show vacancy topping out in 2009 during the Great financial crisis in the real page data. Vacancy today is still about 300 basis points better than it was in 2009. And it's even a wider gap in the census data. And so those of you can see the screen, you can see this chart from the Census. The Census shows Vacancy topping out at 13.1% back in 2009 during the GFC. By comparison, the most recent reading shows vacancy at 8.9%. Now, in fairness, the census data is a bit stale most recently as of Q2 of this year, and I'm sure it's gone up since then, but there's no way it jumped by 430bips since then, which is what it would take to surpass 2009's record high. So come on now, let's not be throwing around the term record high vacancy if your data does even go back to the last major downturn. Of course, more broadly, there's a lot of truth to what CNBC is reporting from the apartment list. Data Vacancy is up primarily thanks to largest supply wave in a half century. Rents are cooling as well. We've talked about that a lot on this program. But 2025 is nothing like 2009, nothing like that at all. I've made this point before. Remember, unemployment was more than double today's rate back in 2009. It was around 10% plus. So now if we hit a real recession, then, yeah, maybe we could challenge those records from 2009, especially if a recession hits prior to all that supply leasing up. But we're not close to that at this moment. All right. Oh, one more quick point here. If we look at a same store measure of occupancy using REIT data compiled by John Burns, which, which most impactfully would exclude newly built units in lease up, which obviously are going to pull down the overall occupancy rate. So if we look at that same store measure of occupancy from the REITs, this idea of record high vacancy is even more absurd. As you see in this chart, they show vacancy rates collectively of around 4%, which is certainly up from what it was in 2122, but still a very healthy number historically and better than the highs they saw in 2020 during the pandemic. And we've talked about this a lot in our REIT recaps, how the industry, including the REITs, continue to prioritize occupancy over rent. And so I'm just not buying the narrative that vacancy is at a record high, if that wasn't already obvious. All right, next up, rental housing trivia.
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All right, today's trivia is presented by Foxen, which provides a suite of value add solutions designed to improve operations, compliance and property performance. Rethink renters insurance compliance, rent reporting and pet management with Foxen. So check them out@fox foxen.com that's f o-x e-n.com so today's question is, and this relates to data providers, what apartment market research data provider started back in 1961 and was later acquired by RealPage in 1999. Let me give you four choices here. For those of you who've been in the industry a little bit, you'll remember a lot of these names. Was it aln, Was it axiometrics? Was it MPF research? Or was it Pierce Islen? So give that some thought and we will answer that in a bit. But first in the news.
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All right, in the news this week is sponsored by Authentic. If you've got a property that's underperforming and you can't quite figure out why? Check out their multifamily leasing and marketing audit. They'll dig into your pipeline, your leasing funnel and comps and tell you exactly where things are breaking down, plus strategies on how to fix it. Listeners of the podcast get 50% off, so head to authenticff.com click on the banner to learn more and claim the offer. All right, we got three headlines for you this week. The big headline over Thanksgiving break was Real Page settling with the DOJ. So here's a headline from Bloomberg RealPage settles DOJ case with data Agreement. So obviously this related to revenue management. The agreement is pending court approval. Both sides are calling it a win and this follows previously announced settlements with Greystar and Cortland.
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So I'm not going to pine too much on the revenue management piece of this. If you're curious for for a take, you can check out Dom Beveridge's blog. Past guest of the podcast by the way, and and prop tech expert. He's been following this case and he's got a good perspective there. You could find that on his LinkedIn page. He's got a link to it. Some good, some good commentary. But I do want to share something that I think could be far more impactful to the industry than anything related to software and that's market surveys. Within this 36 page settlement, there's language that specifically calls out market surveys or call arounds as quote, non public data. Even though any renter could likely gather the same data themselves making some phone calls. So as many of you know, you know, market surveys have been around forever. They long predate the digital era. They've, they're, they've been far more pervasive than any software. But the DOJ specifically states RealPage cannot use market survey data to set rents. So while the settlement is with RealPage specifically, you know the, the, the definitions used. I I wonder does that set up, is there a broader implication here for any property manager still using market surveys or call arounds to set? Now obviously big disclaimer here. I am not a lawyer and so if you want real legal advice, definitely consult your attorneys. That may be worth a conversation. So I'm just sharing how I read this as a non legal expert. Now obviously I know a lot of big firms have already stopped participating in market surveys and doing market surveys, phasing out the surveys and call arounds in favor of gathering data from property websites, Internet listing sites which are more obviously public. And I'd guess many others are going to follow suit if they haven't already. But you Know again, the Again, I'm no lawyer, but I think the language does leave some ambiguity on how far this can go. For example, does this apply to underwriting or just to setting rents? It appears just rents, but again, I don't know. And what about secret shoppers posing as prospective renter? And what about third party data providers who may still use market surveys in some cases? So anyway, in practice, the switch probably isn't a big deal for most firms simply because rents and professionally managed apartments have been widely transparent online for many years. Rent data gathered from surveys should match the rents listed online for the same day. However, I think there could be one unintended consequence for all parties involved, including renters. Websites may sometimes overshoot on rents if they don't include concessions or the leasing discounts, the rent discounts that are oftentimes offered to prospective renters in person or over the phone. So that sets a higher comp. So we'll see what, if any, impact that has. So our market service basically dead Again, we'll see how this plays out next. Headline comes from the Wall Street Journal. It says office to residential conversions are booming and New York is the epicenter. All right, so this is a super interesting article. I think the headline's a little bit of an overstatement here. There's definitely more of these conversions. But let me get to the point here. I think the article really shows us three things. Number one, these projects are super cool, right? Number two, I think they're very needed for a lot of reasons. And number three, they're incredibly complex and expensive. So there's a few things I want to be wrong about, but I do want to be wrong about this. I just don't see there's no real boom. I think these projects are always so high profile we want to assume there's a trend. And certainly numbers are up. But I would take the under on any bet for a real needle moving number of conversions outside of Manhattan and why we'll start from this from the article. Here's a. Here's a really interesting one here. It says most office buildings were considered too wide and mechanically complex to repurpose into apartments with kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms. But New York developers are solving those problems with new architectural hacks, cut through notches, carved light wells, and strategic wall offs of interior cores that create space for new residential floors. Okay, so a notch or a light? Well, you know, that sounds pretty simple, but it's not.
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The Wall Street Journal has some really.
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Cool graphics and one of the things they did is highlight a Project where the developers are demolishing 25,000 square feet on floors 4 through 17 to create a notch facing 3rd Avenue and adding natural light that they need to build 38 housing units because every bedroom is required in New York and a lot of other cities to have a exterior facing window with natural light. But that also requires a new exterior to the building where the notch is being cut. And again the article has some super cool graphic showing the before which is a floor full of cubicles and then the after with the notch cut into the building. So again, super awesome and fascinating but that's probably not going to pencil out in most cases without massive subsidies or super high rents like you see in Manhattan. And a great basis too obviously so. And also think about all the mechanical and plumbing work needed to install bathrooms and all 38 units on that floor when previously there were probably just a men's women's bathroom in the central hallway of the building. So that's going to be pricey and complex. So why did you look at Manhattan? It works there because the rents are so much higher. Wall Street Journal noted that that the Manhattan has one advantage. Other cities can't match a rental market with median $4,500 monthly rents for a one bedroom. So I'm a big fan of conversions. Don't get me wrong in this super cool projects very needed. But again I just, I continue to be skeptical that we're going to see this become a real trend that, that, that, that becomes a material.
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Takes a.
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Large share of the total apartment supply in, in the, in the next cycle. All right. Lastly, one more headline comes from Bloomberg. It says Boston rental market cools leaving landlords quote, willing to do anything.
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All right, so let me read a little bit from this.
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It says the dynamic is similar to boom towns like Austin and other warm weather markets that have seen a surge in new construction in recent years. What sets Boston apart is the source of the price pressure. Economic jitters, not an oversupply of new developments are driving rents lower. Massachusetts is one of only two states with a negative employment growth for the 12 months ended August. And the article goes on to point out weakening in the biotech sector, reduce federal research funding limitations on H1B visas and reduced international students at Boston's many area the many universities in the Boston area. So rents are down for the first time since the pandemic vacancies picked up too.
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And so the question is, is this.
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A leading indicator for elsewhere or is an as an isolated case and obviously time will tell there's a lot of uncertainty in the economy right now. We've talked about this in past episodes, but certainly what we're seeing in places like Boston and D.C. is they're wrestling more market specific economic challenges, whereas we continue to see strength and other lower supply coastal markets like New York and the Bay Area, plus some Midwest markets like Chicago, et cetera. So we'll see. But for now it appears to be more isolated than pervasive. All right, let's get back to today's trivia question sponsored by Foxen. And again, today's question was what apartment market research data provider started in 1961 and was later acquired by RealPage in 1999? Give you four choices, ALN Axiometrics, MPF Research or Pierce island and the answer is C MPF Research. MPF was an early acquisition of RealPage, which started I believe around 1998. And my first job in the apartment business was working for mpf back in 2009 under the tutelage of Greg Willett who who learned under the great Ron Whitten, who later left to start Whitten Advisors and Ron served under MPF founder Oliver Mattingly. MPF originally, people ask this all the time. Back in the day when that name was still used, what did it stand for? Originally it stood for Market Product Facts. Did all types of consumer research initially and then focused more on real estate research and feasibility studies before settling into a niche focused specifically on apartments. And then of course some of you may have guessed, axiometrics. Axiometrics was later acquired by RealPage I believe in 2017 and then RealPage merged the two data sets and that's created arguably the largest continuous apartment data set that goes back more than 10 or 15 years. And other data drivers have obviously some historical data as well. But you know, the combination of those two databases.
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For me at least creates a valuable longer term multi cycle time series. But very thankful we have a lot of other options today and the improvement in the data space for multifamily has been one of the has really made I think been a good thing for the entire industry and for renters just this increased transparency and data availability and hopefully one day we get more of the same for sfr. Still a little bit of wild west for data, but starting to get better there. All right, next up, it's time for today's interview sponsored by funnel, the AI and CRM software trusted by four of the six major REITs and many more leading operators like BH and Cortland to learn how Funnel can help your property centralize operations to automate everyday tasks. Visit funnelleleasing.com and our guest today is the incoming head of U S Property Management for Graystar. That's a pretty decent sized job, of course, with nearly 1 million units managed domestically, number one in the U.S. tony Eubanks, who takes over for Andrew Livingston. And he as Andrew moves into an advisory role at greystar. So we'll talk with Tony about how she got into property management. I teased that story a little bit earlier. It's a great story. And we'll do some myth busting on what it's like to lead property management at the nation's big biggest property manager and how the industry has changed and evolved since she first started way back in the day as a leasing agent in Texas. And also what her priorities are as she steps into this expanded role. So let's jump in.
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All right, now we enter the interview portion of today's podcast and I am absolutely honored to welcome in the incoming executive managing director and head of property management in North America for Graystar, Tony Eubank. So Tony, thank you so much for being with us today.
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Thank you for having me, Jay. I'm delighted to be here.
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All right, so before we get into kind of the current state of affairs and priorities for the next year, as you enter in this new role, tell us some of your story. Tell us how you first got into the apartment business and have grown your career since then.
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I'd love to. Well, purely by accident, which I think a lot of people happen into our industry that way, was actually moving to Dallas and did not want to move without a job and just happened into what was a JPI community at the time and asked are you hiring? And they said, sure, we're hiring. And so I started out my career on a JPI property as a leasing professional a few years ago. And so, and then so really wasn't really intention intending to stay. Just kind of a, hey, I'm going to take it for a minute and then you just kind of get in it and it's exciting and every day's different and challenging and so it just kind of went from there. It was interesting. I tell this story often. It wasn't that great at leasing and so I kind of lucked out because with JPI was really growing at the time and they literally said, hey, you're, this is not probably not your skill set. So they moved me into an assistant manager role. I was better with the numbers, I guess. Yeah. And it's so funny. So. And, but Then within, I think, nine months, I had my first. I was community manager of my first, you know, property, which I think back now, and it's just bewildering. You know, back then, it was a $60 million piece of real estate I was in charge of. And, you know, I. I knew that I loved the job. I. I was very green in the job, but had a definite desire to do well. So from there, just, you know, worked my way up and got lucky a time or two, you know, for sure. And I would say one of those events was when Greystar purchased the management arm of JPI in 2009. And I wasn't sure. You know, I told myself, I'm going to give it six months. It's not the company's responsibility to make me happy. If I don't like it, I'll, you know, go find something else. I'd been with JPI at that point for 14 years, and I loved it immediately. Just the candor, the direct, you know, the nature of the company. You know, just having, you know, the entrepreneurial side. You could run a P and L. You actually were introduced to all those things. And so for me, it was just. It was a great fit, and they've been very good to me. And like I said, I got lucky a time or two along the way, but it's. It's a fascinating industry, and I have absolutely loved every job I've had. I won't say I loved leasing. Maybe that's the one I wasn't, you know, so sharp at, but it was challenging nonetheless. And I think that's what I love about our industry, really. No two days are the same. And for type A kind of humans, that's very appealing. So. So it's been a wild, fun ride and challenging.
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Well, I'm sure if I asked Bobby Page one of the founders, jpi, about your leasing, I'm sure he would say you're probably pretty good at it, too.
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Well, yeah, Bobby was. Yeah. I had the privilege of knowing him while I was there. You know, that company was a lot smaller when I started, and so I got to grow up there. And then when I came to Graystar, it was obviously a lot smaller. I think we had 4,000 people at Grace Row when I started. And I remember, you know, Bob and Bill Maddox and Derek Ramsey flew in and met us. We were all terrified, you know, felt like a kid, and I didn't really know what to expect. But they came in and invested in us. And I will say that, you know, the one thing they did they said they were going to do is, you know, you're going to help us shape greystar's future. And I was like, yeah, okay, sure, you know, whatever. But sure enough, I mean, they just plugged us in immediately and, and it's funny, most of the j. A lot of the JPI people are still here to this day. And so which has served us well as we have gone out and, you know, purchased or, you know, had preferred management agreements with our clients, we've taken their team members and there's a lot of living examples of, you know, people that have come to gracear that way. So that looking, looking back, it was really, it's been a benefit to me to come in that way. But Yeah, I was 4,000 people then and we're almost 30,000 today. So just crazy.
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Crazy. Yeah, well, there's certainly. JPI is one of the companies that has a very impressive alumni network yourself.
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They do, yeah. We always joke. There are a bunch of us that still stay in touch and. Oh yeah, they have jpi. Oh yeah, I work with them at jpi, you know, and so it's funny.
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Yeah, jpi, Trammel, Crow, there's a few of them.
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Right.
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Yeah. I'm grateful. I felt like if you were going to land in an industry, that was a great spot to land and it was just luck too. I mean, just walked into lease an apartment at a JPI community, just pure luck. And so I always tell our children things work out exactly the way they're supposed to and, and that really is proof of that. So it was very, very beneficial to me and my family. And like I said, it just, it's been, it's been a great ride with both companies.
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Well, I love that you came in from the absolute ground floor of the apartment industry and now heading up property management for the largest property manager in the world. So that's a, that's a great story. So you mentioned when you got there, the size of the company, so I want to ask a little more about this. So I went back and looked at The NMHC top 50 managers list back from the, when that acquisition occurred, 94,000 units under management from Graystar. You ranked number six in NMHC's top 50 and now obviously Gracetar's number one. As of the last reporting nearly 1 million units managed. So you've grown tenfold. And you know, I think for most people that's really hard to fathom. You know, so many different owners, you work with different systems, you have to, you know, interact with, integrate with different teams across the company, but other acquisitions as well to integrate into the company. And so I'm curious to ask, and you mentioned that you know, Bob brought you in early on to be kind of help Gracetar's path of growth. So in that period of time, how have you been able to scale? I mean obviously you and the rest of the team been able to scale so quickly and efficiently without really sacrificing performance.
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Well, thank you. I will say we have wonderful people and you know, people always are like, well Grace are so big, I'll get lost in the shuffle. But we just have this really dynamic, hard working group of people that honestly just want to do the next right thing, you know. You know, and I, I just like when I said earlier, I just got lucky to land with a company that has such a strong culture, very high expectations, but people here just want to do the next right thing. And that makes me so proud. But at the time you just, you know, you're just working. Our pace is, it's quite a pace as you can imagine. But it doesn't feel, it's interesting because 51% of our owners have one property with us.
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Wow.
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Yeah. And then. Which is crazy when you think about it, but that's how important every single client is to us. You know, all of our contracts are cancellable in 30 days. Right. So you're, you're kind of just really have to pay really good attention to those clients, those assets. You know, I was working with Joe Cinco who's now retired. He was with Deutsche bank, you know, that went on to rename Reef and then dws and he said to Bill Maddox once, you know, Tony makes Grace or feel small to me and we weren't small at the time.
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Yeah.
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And I'm hopeful that all of our clients feel that way and because we're, you know, we value those partnerships and again like 51% of them just have one deal with us. And so you think, oh, they're this big mammoth shop, which we are big. I don't think we set out to be the biggest. We just set out to really take care of people and in investments. Um, but it's, it's. But I think nurturing that growth and those single owners has really helped us grow. And you know, it's interesting, you go through some things pandemic, you know, a few cycles and I think a lot of owners or clients, I should say want to be with a firm that's institutional grade, you know, that can help them through those, you know, rough patches. And we Just have an incredible support group that I always say when you work here, and this surprises a lot of people that come on board. You know, it's like you have the bat phone, you have the bat phone to accounting, you have the bat phone to Risk Management, you have the bat phone to legal, bat phone to marketing, and they pick up. And it's just a wonderful quality that we have that you never feel like you're alone, especially with some of the stuff that the industry has gone through and, you know, that the world has gone through. Frankly, with the pandemic, it was funny when that hit, everybody's like, nope, nobody has been through a pandemic before. Right. And so we're like, we were the biggest at the time. And everybody's like, what do we do? And I'm like, well, we don't exactly know, but we'll figure it out. And I think that we got through it and we learned a bunch. And that's another thing I will say, with all the different acquisitions we've had, we've learned, you know, we've paid some dumb tax along the way. We've learned, though, and we're open to the learning of it. We know that we're not, you know, the end all, be all. We want to get better. So we have this constant quest to. To do better, get better, think differently. And I think bringing on different companies and groups of people has really helped move us in that direction because we're open to it. We never go into one of those and think, ah, we know everything.
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Right.
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Which we just don't. And so we've learned. We keep, like, a diary of, you know, just lessons learned on all of them. And it's. When we go back through it, it's fascinating, and it just helps make us better and better and better. But anyway, that's kind of our. That's kind of how we approach them. So when you're here, you know, you say that, Jay, and it does sound overwhelming, Right. But it's not, because you're in it and you've got great people and, you know, built up trust. And so.
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That'S just what we do.
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Yeah.
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Well, that's a great quote from Joe and saying, you're making a big organization small. What a great compliment that is to you and your team.
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C
Yeah. And it was a team effort. We worked with Joe for, I don't know, goodness, over a decade before he retired. So I will never forget the compliment for the rest of my life because it was very meaningful to me. And especially since he sent it to Bill Maddox, who is somebody I have a ton of respect for. It meant a lot. You know, you're just like, oh, thanks. You know, you don't hear that. You don't. You know, mostly we deal with problems. So to hear something positive every once in a while is, is wonderful.
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B
Yeah, it's invigorating for sure. So.
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C
Yes.
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So Tony, I'll tell you, I always, I like to joke with my Grace star friends and hey, you guys are number one NMAC top owner, top manager, top developer, the biggest, all these things. But my, my kind of joke is, hey, but you're really not that big, you know, you're really not that the behemoth that some people think you are. You only manage three and a half percent of the multifamily rental units in the U.S. you only do 2.5% of all the apartment starts in the U.S. in a typical year. And you only own about 0.5% of all the apartment units in the country. Now those are still the biggest, but they're not that big. And does that just reflect how fragmented our industry is?
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C
In my opinion, yes. And it, and it is. Right. You know, I think back to when I started in the industry. It was very much a purpose built community was kind of a new concept and I think that helped lead to JPI success. I mean they were building these 300 unit communities with these great pool and fitness center. And you know, I moved in from Illinois, never seen anything like it. Right. Or much less heard of anything like it. And so I think it is in many ways our industry is as you said, fragmented. But it's still a baby, it's still in its infancy. And I do think there will continue to be a flight to kind of institutional providers, just especially as things continue to, we go through more cycles and you have regulatory challenges and just as our industry grows up. Right. I mean I think it is good to kind of hook your wagon to a company, whether it's ours or someone else that has the people to get through these situations. And so. But yeah, I do think it is interesting when you, when you look at that stat and I saw you presented at our women our Wham function, which is basically we bring in all our clients, females, Women asset managers is what the acronym stands for. And there are five, you know, 500 people in the room. And just seeing that stat, you know, Google has 95, 90, 90, 90, 90, excuse me, 95% market share. And you know, yeah, to see the difference there, it's, it's, it's Quite, it's humbling.
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Let's just say, hey, it's opportunity.
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C
We got a lot of work to do still. Jay, come on now, we got to go.
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A
Yeah, yeah, no, it's. I think it's a powerful. I've thought to. All I told the Wham Group, this I tell people all the time, is that people don't appreciate that rental housing is the most fragmented major industry in the US and the data backs that up. So. And actually let me ask you about something you just said though. You mentioned that you know, this kind of continued flight, institutional and I agree with you. I think you mentioned like the quality of like the JPI homes you built and now you're looking at, you know, some of the newest construction. I tell people who are, you know, like 40 and up as like people you don't understand, like how nice these apartments are, like the stickiness of the experience and is just like these are really nice and highly amenitized, well run buildings. And so I'm curious to ask you, Tony, like, you know, people always think about scale as like a negative thing, but you know, what are the advantages really at the end of the day for renters of like the growth of institutional property management and ownership and development. Like how's that created a better experience for renters, you think?
- [33:24]
C
I'll start with yes, I think you get kicked in the head occasionally for scale. It's an easy thing to point to. It's a predictable thing to point to. Right. But even as you know, our children go out into the world and they're first time renters, you know, that don't have a guarantor. The parents, you know, I always encourage them or anyone I know, hey, again, doesn't have to be us, but go with, go with a community that has professional management. You will get maintenance when you need it. You will get someone that picks up the phone, you'll get somebody that actually cares when you send in, you know, a concern. And if, if you don't like, you're just risking it, right? You're risking your credit, you're risking your experience. I mean that, you know, homes are so very important and we are, that's what we do. We're in the business of providing homes and we take that very seriously. And so go with, you know, go with a firm that, that you have resources, you have, you know, ability to get problem solved. It is for me, I, you know, I think it's critically important. Yeah, they have all your information, they are in charge of your home. You know, if something Breaks, they're the ones that are gonna, they're the lifeline to get it fixed. And I just, I, I think it's, it's super important. And again, it doesn't have to be us. I mean, I hope that it is, but you know, it's like think of the things that you, when you take a mortgage out, you don't go to just some random bank to take your mortgage out. Right. Like you study those and you look, you know, you do your homework and you, and you go with someone who has a reputation for doing the right thing and taking care of people. It's critically important.
- [35:06]
A
Yeah. And certainly, I mean, Rising Tide boost all ships. So as you guys get better, inspires other groups to get better. And if somebody else has something better, y' all are trying to get better, so. Right, yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. So. So Tony, you know, through thinking back to your days as a, as a leasing agent, your first role for JPI to where you are today, I'm curious to ask you, what do you think have been the most impactful, most disruptive and like positive disruption trends and technologies over these last couple of decades that have made professional property management better and more efficient?
- [35:40]
C
I mean, there are so many. We could talk for three hours just on that topic. Right. I'm going to date myself here, but when I first started, we literally had a typewriter at every desk. We did not have a computer in the office. So. So, hey, computers were a great upgrade in our business. You know, like, like I said, we're still baby business and figuring things out. But we've had a ton in the last two decades, as you said, of just advancements. I mean the digital art, the digital network, everything you can do now digitally, from, you know, apps to paying your rent, putting in maintenance orders, huge online leasing, online search, like screening, all of that, like it's just so much easier than it was, you know. And another thing, and we did this actually at jpi, just centralization of services and not everything, you know, unless it's a purpose built building can be centralized in my opinion, but those tasks that are, you know, highly competitive can be rather easily usually. And so when Covid happened, we actually fired up a shop of centralization for AP and ar and it really stemmed out of seeing that modeled at JPI back in the day. But also, you know, in our, in our student market, our student living portfolio, those are in, you know, small markets and sometimes it's hard to find people that want to do accounting related things and so it really took off in that, in that, you know, business for us. But yeah, the centralization piece is huge. And at first it was just centralization and now it's, hey, how can AI help us with centralization? Which is really exciting. And we're actually running a beta test right now on collections with AI out of what we call the Resource center, which is our centralized AP AR model. And we have about, in total about 500 properties right now using the Resource Center. And then we've just plugged in the AI and it's really spitting out some incredible results and our teams love it because they don't have to be the one picking up the phone to call, hey, you haven't paid your rent yet. You know, it's awkward, right? And so our on site teams have really responded well to that and so have our Resource center team members. So we're excited about that. And then, you know, self guided tours, just making decisions based on data, you know, just didn't have a lot of access to data. Or you could sit at your desk and try to figure out, oh, that A1, we leased two of them. Maybe I should, you know, raise the rent or we haven't leased any, maybe I should lower the rent. So data has helped a lot and then we're still working through this, but you know, platform integrations, just all these different providers, how they talk to each other, you know, and then one area of just advancement that I'm super excited about is maintenance. I think maintenance can be underserved on our communities, team members and processes both. And I'm really excited to continue to see us push there because I think maintenance out of everything is one of the top reasons people stay with you and renew, right? If they just had a good track record of, of maintenance services in your buildings. And I just think the more data we can push, hey, that's this model dishwasher. This is what happens. It breaks down, you know, this, it's this, this little widget. And we always talk about fix it right the first time, get in, get out, fix it the first time versus coming back three times. And data can help us with that. And there's so many advancements around maintenance and we're super excited to see those things happen.
- [39:11]
A
Oh yeah, no, it's as you're talking makes me think about. I remember my friends at JPI tell me they used to have this Monday morning report some port like a lot of companies did. You had to have some junior analysts, had to compile a bunch of data from different places, put it into an Excel file. And so your reaction? Yeah, yeah, a lot of time. Yeah. But then by the time the executive team gets that, I mean, that's already old news. Right. And now of course, you know, you got, you know, not only Graystar, but a lot of companies, you have real time information from BI tools that help you react to challenges a lot faster.
- [39:42]
C
Right, exactly. But then also if we call them looking for breadcrumbs. And so we are trying to get more proactive just around everything, I mean, risk included. Right. But so you're seeing. Oh, that's interesting. I've seen that twice now. Okay, we're going to go, you know, and so it, we want to get as proactive as we can and the data helps us do that. It's critical to your point. You know, back in the day, poor analysts had worked for hours to get that report and maybe you got it by 4 on a Monday and I was the recipient of those reports too. And then by Tuesday you're making your changes finally. But it's very reactive.
- [40:19]
A
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about the role of property managers, leasing agents. So you know, you started your, your career on the ground floor. You know, from, from my recollection, you know, when you go back, maybe Even past like 10 years, 15 years ago, the property manager historically was a jack of all trades. You know, it was the, you're a leasing agent, salesperson, you're a counselor, you're an accountant, you're, you know, vendor management. Like you're, you're, you probably come up with 20 different things that that person did. How, how is that profile of that person working on site? How has it evolved since the days when, when you first started?
- [40:57]
C
Well, I, I do think there's still somewhat a jack of all trades, but they are, I will say they are somewhat turning kind of into, from generalists to specialists. Right. And maybe it's a specialist of many things, but I think with the tech, it helps them really zero in on that particular asset and the physical aspects of that asset. But you know, you kind of open that with, you know, their counselor. We know we're a people heavy business, right. We have team members on site, obviously, we have residents. We are, we're in the providing homes business. And so that's always going to be front and center for us. It's just an, it's just, it's that important. So we try to hire team members and managers that really come with a skill set like they're change oriented typically because this stuff's changing rapidly. Right. And how do we get these new, you know, tech things out into the properties without causing a bunch of disruption? That's key. And we focus on that a lot because we want the team on site to focus on taking care of the community, taking care of the residents, leasing the apartments, renewing the apartments. Right. And so how do we get it out there in a way that makes sense and speaks the language of our team members? But to go back to the point, I, you know, I have seen, you know, these, these buildings could be 100 million, $200 million worth of value. And you know, I often, when I visit our communities and we try to be on our communities a lot, you know, I say, hey, have you ever stopped and thought that you're running 150 million dollar piece of real estate? And you know, their eyes get big. But all that to be said, I think what I'm seeing is the financial acumen, you know, and the, the openness to change, the openness to adopting technology. We're looking for those things. And then you couple that with somebody that can develop people, train people, have really brave conversations with people, because people. Management's really hard. And so it is, it is a challenging job, it always has been. But I do think the tools are helping like the tech is helping.
- [43:10]
Just so they're not having to do sit there, you know, with a piece of.
- [43:14]
B
Paper and, you know, all the administrative tasks.
- [43:16]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just spending more time on the real estate. You know, I always ask when I'm out, hey, how often do you walk the property? You know, how often are you out there? And my hope for is I do that every day because there's just nothing more valuable than having being on that real estate and knowing what's happening in the building or buildings, you know, So I think the tech is helping, but man, it's, it's, it is a, it's an interesting job. It just the sheer value. I mean, someone's grandmother or grandfather is invested in that building and you want to, you want to take really good care of it for them.
- [43:51]
A
Oh, absolutely, yeah. And I, I gotta imagine all that, you know, technology has made their jobs easier and centralization. I still remember, you know, my department, you know, the property manager be sitting in the office probably processing payroll or lease applications or something. And I'm like, hey, you need something and they have to come up and, you know, so.
- [44:08]
C
Oh, you think about that, Jay. Just in like the very basic things from logging, our team members logging in and logging out and making sure that complies with, you know, all the regulations of that. Now that's automated, right? I mean, I'm going back but yeah, didn't used to be automated. You know, key systems. That's automated. You know, it just rents or just all these different things are, you know, we just helpful because processing all those.
- [44:35]
A
Checks back in the day.
- [44:36]
C
Yes, I know, right, yes. And actually keying in each check and so it just, it's amazing. Like the question made me stop and think, wow, how different life was 20 years ago versus now. And the tech. The tech is absolutely helping, I will say. They have to really know how to use the tech. So enablement and training will continue to be really, really important to optimize everything we get from the tech.
- [45:02]
A
Yes, of course, our industry will get. I will ask you more about proptech in a moment. But certainly our industry is famous for having gazillions of different proptech vendors with different logins and systems and terminology and whatnot.
- [45:14]
C
Yeah, single sign on is really important because to your point, you don't want to have to sign on 20 times a day. It's very much a first world problem. But single sign. It's funny, when we do our team member engagement surveys, they're like, can we get everything single sign on? Right. It's just too much, it's too timec consuming to have any other.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. All right, so I've asked you a. Property managers.
- [45:36]
B
Let's talk about renters.
- [45:37]
A
Like how are today's apartment renters different from you know, 20 plus years ago in terms of not only their, you know, demographics, lifestyles, incomes, but also in terms of their expectations of their property managers?
- [45:50]
C
You know, it's interesting, there's nowhere to hide. Let's just say that if they're dissatisfied, you really have to make it right pretty quick or you're going to hear about it. And frankly, part of the world will hear about it as well. Right. Because social media. But hey, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a great thing because I do think it keeps us all trying to do the next right thing. We rolled out a program this year actually and it's called make it right right Away, which really just empowers all of our on site team members to go and just hey, if something went wrong and it will go and send a basket, send flowers, send them out to dinner, just turn it around. And it's interesting because the studies will show that builds trust faster than if they would have lived there the whole time and not had an issue. And so if you just respond and respond well and thoughtfully, we're finding that it is really, really helping with retention. And also just people are happier and again, you're taking care of their home. But yeah, I would say it is, there's very little room for error. And you know, and again, 20 years ago, you know, the purpose plan, you know, the purpose built multifamily community wasn't as prevalent as maybe it is now. And so the expectations risen with that. Right. Like, and so who can give the best service, who can give the best maintenance, who, you know, who's going to take care of you? And so it was just a, that's, that's a huge difference in our industry and it's in all industries. So certainly not, you know, whining about that, but it is, you gotta just put your best foot forward every time in the margin for error just isn't what it used to be. You know, you have a minute before to kind of make it right, have that minute anymore. You maybe have 20 seconds and so, but you know, again, I keep saying it, we're in the business of caring for people in their homes. So it's important to us to get it as right as many times as we can.
- [47:50]
A
Yeah. I have a friend, Andrew, who may be listening to this and he likes to tell me that, you know, that Amazon has sort of spoiled our expectations for how fast we should get something solved. Even for a renter and a property, it's like they're used to, you know, instant resolution of issues. Right. That, that really raises the bar.
- [48:09]
B
Right.
- [48:10]
C
For property managers and frankly I'm that consumer and it doesn't have to be resolved. But just tell me you have it. You know, there's nothing worse than saying, hey, I have this problem and you hear nothing. Just a response back for me and says, I hear you. I'm, I'm on it. Give me X amount of time and then beat that deadline, that self imposed deadline. That's just huge. Right. Do what you say you're going to do. And, but yeah, I would say, you know, rounding back to the original question, that that's the biggest difference. The expectation level is, is high, as it should be. You know, typically their rent expense is the biggest check they'll write every month. And you know, it's a privilege and, but it's also a huge responsibility.
- [48:49]
B
Yeah.
- [48:51]
A
Talking about the renters, obviously there's a lot of mixed signals in the economy today. And I like to joke, it seems like anytime people are nervous about the economy, there's this assumption that renters must be suffering. And are you seeing any signs of financial distress among current renters today in your portfolio?
- [49:07]
C
No, I mean, I think we for the most part, I will say broad stroke, of course.
- [49:12]
A
Yeah.
- [49:12]
C
We have recovered from the delinquency issues that plagued us during the pandemic. There are a few markets which you may not, it's hard to believe that still have, you know, financial eviction backlogs, which is, you just, it's just kind of a head scratcher. But it kind of is what it is. But again, they're very isolated pockets. But I would say generally, no, we're, it feels like we're kind of might be even better than, you know, when we look at our rent to income ratio, we're about 21% on an A class product which is 300 basis points lower than it was, you know, just a few years ago. And then B is about 23%. Cs are still a little bit higher I think at like 26% on our portfolio. But we don't have. Yeah. And we don't have a ton of C, you know, in our portfolio. So it's, it's the A's. But yeah, we're feeling pretty good about that rent to income ratio, which, you know, it's, that bodes well for us. So.
- [50:08]
B
Yeah.
- [50:09]
A
So, yeah, still lower income ratios. People are paying a rent, not seeing a lot of doubling up. So overall, still. No, nothing to get worried about.
- [50:17]
C
Yeah, no, we're. Yeah. And I agree with your comment about doubling up. You know, we have people that, that's kind of the flight right when, when you get into the cycle and. But we're not seeing a lot of that either.
- [50:28]
A
Good.
- [50:29]
C
So. Which is exciting. It's, it's good for us.
- [50:31]
A
Yeah, well, it's so good for, frankly for consumers as well. It's good to hear that. You know, we always hear the bad news. I think it's good to hear that the renters are resilient as a group.
- [50:42]
So, you know, industry wide, there's been a big theme at recent conferences and the REITs earnings calls they just went through that the current renters are doing good, they're okay, they're still paying the rent, they're not doubling up, et cetera. There's no flight to affordability. But with all the, you know, low consumer confidence, weakening job growth that prospective renters, we're seeing more maybe move into kind of wait and see mode. We're seeing industry wide a little bit lesser front door leasing demand. Maybe some people Say the leasing season ended a little bit earlier in 2025. I'm curious, what's your assessment? And on top of that too, what are you hearing? I know you talk a lot about being on site a lot. So when you're talking to your teams, what are you hearing is kind of the mindset among prospective renters looking at your properties today?
- [51:29]
C
I think you're kind of right on it. October probably slowed a little bit more than it typically would. It seemed like an early start to our kind of non seasonal time in most markets, but nothing like that. We're like woo, scary, you know, scary or worried about too much. But you know, kind of what we're hearing is, you know, just some worries a little bit about the economy. Right. And then the government shutdown probably didn't help consumer confidence a whole lot.
- [51:58]
B
Right.
- [51:58]
C
And it just seems like there's just a lot, there's just a lot of noise out there right now. So that probably helped, that probably influenced, I guess I should say would be the better word, a little bit slower in October. And you know, the supply, there's a, there's a record amount of supply in some of these markets. But if you zero into a market or a submarket, you know, some are still doing very well. It, you know, Charlotte continues to do well just as an example. It's not all doom and gloom and it's, and we wouldn't even say doom and gloom necessarily. October was a little bit slower. I think it's supply. I think it's you know, people a little bit worried about the economy and to your, your point, jobs reports. But I also think, like I said, you know, just the, the government shutdown probably worried and scared people that how long is this going to go on? Yeah, you know, we were starting to get a little, the longest one ever in history. Right. And so all of us, I think collectively we're starting to get a wee bit worried about that.
- [52:55]
A
So.
- [52:57]
Absolutely, I think that makes sense. So another I think positive indicator is that we've really not seen at least industry wide, can't speak for great start. It's any kind of material pickup and turnover. Its retention's been trending up across the industry. And I, and I mentioned this at the WHAM event that we were at that I think we give the high mortgage rates way too much credit for this because as you know, this trend's been going on for like 10 years. It's a steady upward trend. And so I'm curious to ask you, I mean you've been part of this, this upward trend this last decade, this, this people are choosing to rent to renew more frequently. What do you think is. Is driving that structural change where it just seems like the new normal of retention is higher than it was in the past?
- [53:42]
C
Yeah, I would say, you know, some of the things we've already talked about, which I, which I won't repeat, you know, just. But I, but I also think it's, it's market driven. Right. You know, in some cities, you know, I still want to live in the city. I don't want to move to the suburbs yet. I don't really have a home buying option in the city. And I'm going to continue to be a renter. And to our earlier point, in one of these buildings that just is decked out, you know, amenities and service and hey, I don't have to worry about maintenance because I rent and they're really good at maintenance here. So, you know, I think all that is obviously has impacted it, you know, that housing shortage a little bit too. Right. And so it's, it's, it's not just one thing. It's probably at least 100 things. But I do think that some of the things we've mentioned already have, have pushed that even more. And you know, what is it? People are 40 now, in their 40s before they typically buy their first home, you know, or 10 years ago or 15 years ago, maybe 30. So that just keeps pushing up. But you know, I, there are conveniences in renting and I think people are aware of that. And I don't know if I necessarily always subscribe to renters by choice I. In some markets, but I, but I do think that it's just there's an affordability when it comes to home buying that is keeping people with us for a little bit longer. Hopefully we're taking really good care of them. So we make that even a harder decision when, you know, when they're, when they do feel like they're ready.
- [55:08]
A
Oh, you're speaking my language, by the way. I hate that term renter by choice, rent by necessity. I mean, for most people, 95% of people, it's some combination of two things. Life stage. I mean, it's not that simple really.
- [55:19]
C
So it's definitely is not that simple. No.
- [55:23]
A
But also too, I just billing one more point here on this. It's like it just kind of. We mentioned this a little bit earlier. I just want to hammer this home point again that, you know, it just feels like as nice as those apartments were that you moved into when you were first to renter, you know, that was kind of the first stage of hey, we're going to build 300 plus unit buildings with a pool and we're going to leasing office with a coffee maker. I mean, today's apartments are so much stickier, like living experience. There's so many. That's why I tell people. So if you're 40 plus haven't been to an apartment building the last five, 10 years, you got to go visit one. So you understand this, you have to.
- [55:54]
C
And it's not just one size fits all. Like, I can live in a high rise and have a concierge of package valet, a valet for my car and a doorman. You know, if I live in New York, for example, it's just I toured our high rises there that were, you know, privileged enough to have management on and they're just incredible, incredible buildings with a view, like just the views are just amazing. And so I'd be hard pressed to move out of one of those. And then the other end, you know, you can go rent a single family home and have a yard for your pets and the conveniences of a home without the headache of a home. Like if I need an air filter, I call someone, you know, or if my sink breaks, I call someone faucet, I guess I should say, you know, and so man, like, and then I don't, you know, I live in a high rise. I don't have a lot of sound issue. I live in a SFR B2R. I have this whole place to myself, you know, or if you like being around more people, you know, just your typical, then garden or mid rise is great too. But there's just so many options. Like when I started it was garden, garden, garden, right. I in Dallas, I don't even think we had a for rent residential high rise at the time. And now you look at the skyline and it's full of them. So I like the options that we have for people just based on their phase of life or what their preferences are, but they're, it's, it's incredible.
- [57:17]
A
Yeah, you made a good point. The walls too. People who are 40 plus don't unders. They still think apartments have thin walls. You hear your neighbor all the time and like, that's just not how apartments are built anymore.
- [57:26]
B
So.
- [57:26]
C
No, it's not. And it's interesting because we actually own a, like a modular building facility in Knox, Pennsylvania.
- [57:33]
B
Right.
- [57:33]
C
And I toured it and at first I was like, oh, I don't know about this, but one they're incredible. They look like you built them at the site. But two, it's interesting because how they fit together. They have air pockets between side to side and up to down. So actually the sound attenuation in a modular build is really impressive because of the air pockets between the floors and between the walls. So, yeah, it is not what it used to be.
- [58:02]
B
Absolutely.
- [58:02]
C
So, yeah, just get out and see something. And I failed to mention my first apartment was in a small town in Illinois. And it wasn't. When I got here, I was like, what, what in the world is this? Like, it so wasn't. Didn't come from that, but wow. So it's just a difference of, you know, time and the year, you know, and developing. And we just have some wonderfully, like, talented developers and designers that bring these buildings to life. And they're fun. It's fun to see real estate and be on it and, you know.
- [58:32]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [58:33]
C
That's a fun part of the job. Right?
- [58:35]
A
Absolutely. So, Tony, let me ask you, we can kind of pivot to another question. You know, you got a. There was a lot of buzz that came out of a comment you gave to Biz now in an interview about 50 of applicants in some markets like Atlanta being fraudulent. And of course, you know, I think some of the media spin that came out of this Wall Street Journal wrote about it. Others, it's like it sort of. I think everybody in the industry is like, well, as you know, like, this has been going on really for a number of years. This isn't a brand new thing. But I'm curious to ask you, is the tech caught up to the fraud now? And are you seeing new ways that fraudsters are trying to innovate around the innovations that we've built to catch the fraud?
- [59:16]
C
Right. Okay. So multilayered question there. And I'll start from the beginning. And I, when I did that interview, I just gotten back from Atlanta and saw it firsthand.
- [59:25]
A
Yeah.
- [59:25]
C
And it's, I will say, out of everything that we are challenged with every day, it's. This is one of the most disheartening things because every time a bad actor, as we say, gets into a building and takes residency, it takes money away from that community. It takes money away that you can spend on maintenance. It takes money away that you can, you know, raise salaries for the team. And so that's the disheartening part. Right. And so I said it on purpose because I think so many times our industry, you know, the landlord's not exactly popular. And so. But we're also at Grace Row, we partner with owners and clients that want to take exceptional care of these buildings and the people that live. Otherwise we don't partner with them. And so when you, then you tour a market like that and you're like, man, they're still dealing with some delinquency in Atlanta with eviction backlog still. And then they've got this and I'm like, come on now, like we need a break in this market. And again, not whining but yeah, the tech, we, we've, we partner with a couple of different firms and I will say the tech is exceptional. Our, our team members are not qualified to spot this. It is AI generated kind of next level. And the unfortunate part of all of it is just kind of when you get there and you figure it out, then there's a new way to kind of wrangle the system. And so that's, that's, that's a little bit of the challenge of it too. It's changing every day. And so I will say.
- [60:48]
It'S just the, you know, the fake employers, the shell companies and, and you just, it's just, it's just a challenge of our industry and I think it will continue to be unfortunately. And, and so you know, I, it's just, it's one of those things like I wish there was like an automatic stop to it that we. But there's not. It's just going to continue to be something we're going to work on and focus on. The tech is catching up but they're always innovating and the real like measure of success is how much fraud doesn't make it through.
- [61:20]
B
Yeah.
- [61:21]
C
You know, like if, but then the other thing people don't think about is the amount of time our team members on site are spending with these bad actors before they ever even move in when they could be spending time with someone that's going to get in and care for the community and all the things. But that's the other piece of it that's disheartening. So I could talk about this topic for three hours. As you can tell, I, it kind of gets big, but it's big and it's, it's unfortunate and, but I'm glad that that, that quote caught wind because I do think that, you know, some of the press or whatever, it's been a little bit one sided. Some of it may be fairly earned.
- [61:58]
A
Oh, you're nicer than me about that. I would have been a little more blunt about that.
- [62:01]
C
Yeah, I know. I just, you know I just think truth is always somewhere in the middle. But you know, I would like to share some more of the things that our industry is facing because then, you know, we can get attention to some of those things too.
- [62:14]
A
Well, and one of the things that I'm passionate about, I know you are too, is that I think that the, some of the times, the coverage, even our, you know, local and state federal policymakers don't understand how fraud impacts honest renters as well in terms of they get in then someone sharing a wall with somebody who's not been properly screened, you don't know who they are. If there's unpaid rent among people who are capable of paying rent and trying to take advantage of the system, like how that impacts the living experience and potential costs for everybody and artificial, low vacancy, all those kind of things. So I'm with you. I wish there was more proper attention on this.
- [62:50]
C
I do too. And that's something for me. How is it right. I don't like the word fair, but how is it right that I'm there and I'm paying my rent on time and paying my rent so that services can be provided at the building. It's hard to pay the landscaper if we don't have the revenue coming in the door. Right. And so, but the person next to me hasn't since they moved in and then, then it takes months to get them through the system to get them out of the building. And so I just am like, yeah, that, that's the piece that just the whole thing and I used it when I first started talking about it is just disheartening and it is something that keeps you up at night because you want to fix it, you want to take good care of the people that are there and want to be there. And you know, so it is, it's one and it's a challenge our on site team should not have to deal with. Frankly they've got enough going on in any given day and so it's one of those things that it's just not right.
- [63:44]
B
Absolutely.
- [63:44]
C
All the way around. Yeah.
- [63:46]
A
So. So speaking of proptech, one thing I'm curious about, I know you probably asked this a lot in your role because every. There's some. We have a cottage industry of prop tech companies. So many new startups. We just had op tech this week or last week and yeah and know a lot of people are out there and there's always this big, you know, group of, of you know, startups that are trying to get everybody's attention. And so I'M curious to ask you. You know, I know it was great, Star. You all want to stay ahead of the trends, but you can't do every single thing. So how do you monitor emerging tech trends and ultimately decide, you know, what are we going to test out, what are we going to scale more broadly?
- [64:20]
C
I think for us, we, we, you're right. We were, you know, early adopters on everything there for a minute and then we kind of figured out, hey, we need to be a little more disciplined and deliberate about what we're looking at. So now what we do is we, we test it and we don't test it like grand scale test. It's very refined, right. And with, with very clear end dates and with very clear measures of success. And so we just don't like blanket approach anything anymore. And you know, a lot of times there is that, that narrative that you got to move fast. We do, we want to move fast, but we also don't want to disrupt our sites. Right. We want to. And when we do deliver it to the site, we want to make sure it speaks the language of our team members. It's in a learning format that they absorb because they have a lot coming at them. I always say our on site team members, which I think are the backbone of our company, you know, they don't get to plan their day like corporate team members do. They've got residents, vendors, team members, like it is all day, every day coming at them. And so when we do bring something to the site, we very much have to be deliberate about it, speak their language. It has to be short bursts that they have time for. And I think so we have much more of a discipline testing process. We prove it out before we scale it. And you know, focus areas today, obviously AI is huge. Our first question used to be, hey, can we do that less expensive maybe in India? Because we do have, you know, a very, we have 600 team members right now in India. Now our question is, hey, can we do that with AI? And then we follow, okay, or we can do that in India, right? Like, how do we drive savings down to our owners is always kind of in the forefront and then we really evaluate and it's really smart people that work on this for us. We, you know, that we've gone out and found, we've found some super talented people. That's all they do every day. And so they vet a lot of it. And I'm thankful for them because I'm not one of those humans. And then when they, they do, when they are ready to launch, it is well packaged. It's been tested in the environments in which it needs to be tested, you know, and so when I say talk about, you know, AI, for example, right now, today, we're running three different beta tests, one with one of our clients that so willingly was raising their hand to say, hey, we want to be a part of this. One in the resource center and one, how can it help us in accounting? You know, and so just to get. Think of all the repetition, you know, in accounting and how can AI help us there? So we've got those going right now with just AI and it's super exciting to see it because I think that we haven't even. Obviously everybody talks about the surface yet. Yeah.
- [67:07]
A
So what do you think's the next. I mean, obviously AI broadly, but, you know, any kind of thoughts on what's the next big thing in prop tech that's going to disrupt and help the industry innovate further over the next decade?
- [67:18]
C
Yeah, I think there's a lot happening right now in maintenance with inspection tools. And so maintenance, obviously is at the forefront and I'm thrilled to see some of the tech continue to evolve and grow there. But, you know, again, back, you know, back to AI, it's just, you know, we're only, we're looking at it, I think I mentioned, you know, not only at the site level, but how can it help us with support functions? How can we, you know, make those more elite? How, how can we make those more streamlined? What resources do our team members need to just get through their days easier? And then the other thing, then I kind of mentioned it, modular building. We're, we're pretty high on that. You know, you can, you don't have the construction waste. Right. You've got good sound attenuation, your construction time is compressed, which is great. And so we've, we're having a lot of fun with that. And, and it's pretty neat concept, so not unique necessarily, but we're enjoying our, you know, spending time on that too. So we're delivering our project right now, you know, on east coast. And so it's facing up very well. So we're, we're thrilled with that piece too.
- [68:27]
A
All right, so, Tony, you're very soon stepping into the, the role of heading up Property Management North America, Executive Managing Director at greystar for that role. As you step into that new position, expanded role, what are, what are the big operational priorities for Gracetar in 2026 and beyond?
- [68:44]
C
Yeah, I mean, I will say start off by saying I'm you know, I'm grateful to take on the job and I, when, before we were on air, I was sharing, you know, I'm, I'm excited and terrified all rolled into one. Right. I have had the pleasure of working for Andrew Livingstone, our COO for, oh my goodness, almost 17 years. And it's just been, he's, I say this often, he's invested in all of his team and he's prepared us well. And so we are, it's, you know, we're just excited to take off, you know, take forward what we've all built together and make it even more successful. So with that, you know, as I think about next year, we're going to spend a lot of time on people to people business, succession planning. Right. Leadership development, teaching our team members skills that they can either hopefully spend use here while they're with us or take with them to their next take with them on their next journey. But that's important to me because people have invested in me over my career and had they not, I wouldn't have been as lucky or, you know, had the chances I've been given. And so I want to be sure that we're good stewards of that and I think also hit our budgets, you know, at the site level. A budget is, you know, not a hope for, it's a commitment. Let's go out and let's hit them or do better and take care of those communities and our clients. I mean, that's, it's really near and dear to my heart because I've been, you know, with companies before that haven't been financially successful and that's not, it's not, not a great feeling. And so really understanding what those commitments mean and seeing them through and then innovation and implementations, we've been talking a lot about that. We're going to continue to, to move forward with those and in a very deliberate, kind of disciplined way. But we're super excited about, to see the end. I mean, in five years, Jay, you and I can have this conversation again and every topic will be completely different. Yeah. And then we're a growth organization. You know, you'll often hear Bob say, we're never going to be Kodak. Right? Kodak. We're just not. And we're going to continue to figure out how to grow our company and, and we're all excited. It's a growth company, so we're excited to be a part of that. And then a big thing that we're all working on. And if you're in our industry, you should be working on it. If you're not is risk mitigation. It's. It's huge. And physical site risk, you know, regulatory risk, all the risky things. So we've. We're really spending a lot of time and attention on that and not so fun some days, but we're learning and trying to be, you know, to our earlier point, proactive versus reactive and just running real estate better. So that's. Those things are really important to us. So those are kind of the things I'm thinking through and we're working towards as we move forward. The organization.
- [71:31]
B
Yeah.
- [71:32]
A
Certainly growing list of risks for everybody across the rental housing space. But I love that quote from Bob and I think that's a great one about not becoming Kodak. Hopefully every business takes that approach.
- [71:43]
C
Right, right.
- [71:44]
A
Well, Tony, thank you so much for your time and for talking to us about what you're working on at Greystar. And best of luck as you step into this new role for 2026.
- [71:56]
C
Well, thank you, Jay, and thank you for having me. It was great to catch up, and I wish you nothing but the best for 2026.
- [72:01]
B
Thank you, Tony.
- [72:23]
And that's a wrap on episode number 62 of the Rent roll. Big thank you to Tony for being our guest today. Thank you to JPI Madera, Authentic and Funnel for sponsoring today's episode and Foxen as well. And thank you to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you next time.