The Rent Roll with Jay Parsons — EP#63
Guest: Andrew Kadish, CEO of Capreit
Date: December 11, 2025
Episode Theme:
"Green Shoots in Multifamily? Maybe."
A no-hype look at tentative signs of improvement (“green shoots”) in multifamily housing after a rough period, plus an in-depth conversation with Andrew Kadish on Capreit’s roots, affordable housing, market trends, and industry policy.
Main Theme & Purpose
Jay Parsons explores whether the multifamily rental housing sector is beginning to enter the earliest stage of recovery after a tough cycle—emphasizing "green shoots" as true, but modest, early indicators rather than full rebound. Atlanta is cited as a lead market in this gradual process. The episode also features an interview with Andrew Kadish, CEO of Capreit, about the company’s unique private path in multifamily, its legacy, confusion over the name, and what’s happening in affordable and market-rate apartments. Other topics include regulatory news, policy debates, and operational trends within rental housing.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Defining “Green Shoots” in Multifamily Recovery
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Jay Parsons re-emphasizes that “green shoots” means only early, small improvements—not a full rebound yet.
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Markets showing improvement: Atlanta leads with a significant moderation in rent declines; Charlotte and several other Sunbelt markets also show better absorption and leasing momentum.
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Quote:
"A green shoot is just that, it’s not a rebound. It means an early sign of one, maybe the, the beginning of a rebound, like the first green blades of grass coming out of the lawn after the cold winter..."
— Jay Parsons (04:17) -
Atlanta as a case study:
- Rent change moderation: From nearly -5% to about -1% in under a year—a 170 bps improvement, best among top 50 metros.
- Supplies dropping fast; absorption and leasing pace up.
- Other Sunbelt/SE markets improving: Charlotte, West Palm Beach, Memphis, Jacksonville, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, DFW, Nashville.
- Caution remains: Rents are still falling in much of the Sunbelt; improvement is relative.
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Contrast with Coastal Markets:
- San Francisco & San Jose: Only large coastal markets with accelerating rent growth.
- Overall, momentum now shifting slightly back toward supply-heavy markets as new supply peaks are absorbed.
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Quote:
"The incremental improvement appears to be helping support the gradual pullback in the depth of rent cuts there."
— Jay Parsons (08:01)
2. Policy and Regulatory News
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FTC’s new fee disclosure push:
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Following Greystar’s settlement, property managers are being warned: all-in rental pricing (including mandatory fees) must be advertised up front.
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Implications: More transparency for renters and owners; industry must adapt or risk legal action.
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Notable Quote:
“...advertising a rental price that excludes mandatory charges is a violation of the law. So advertise the total cost of renting your unit up front...”
— Jay Parsons (14:17) -
Reference to prior guest Joanna Zabinsky’s (BH Management) data: All-in pricing produced fewer leads but higher conversion and no drop in occupancy.
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Headlines:
- Probe into investment groups buying trailer parks (manufactured housing under increased regulatory scrutiny).
- California schools adopting “teacher village” models—schools buying property for staff housing, a rare direct public sector approach to workforce housing.
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Jay’s take:
- Inclusionary zoning and mandates don’t increase workforce housing; direct investment or incentives do.
3. "New Digs": Project Spotlight
Waterworks Village, Atlanta:
- 100 units for formerly homeless and other vulnerable populations
- Modular construction at $170k/unit—well below typical city affordable housing costs
- Integrated job training/health services
- Noted as Atlanta’s first modular multifamily project
- Potential “prototype” for future affordable housing in urban cores
4. Interview: Andrew Kadish, CEO of Capreit
(Starts at ~22:50)
Company History & Identity
- Family-founded in 1993 by Dick Kadish; originally aimed to go public as a REIT but stayed private after “failing” to raise enough equity.
- Quote:
"My dad always said it was the greatest failure he ever had, but he kind of didn’t know it at the time..."
— Andrew Kadish (23:18) - Name confusion: Often mixed up with Canadian Capreit REIT, leading to misdirected complaints from Canada.
Portfolio Overview
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~12,000 units, 50/50 split between owned and third-party managed properties.
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Operating focus: Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, northern Midwest (St. Louis, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Richmond).
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Approach: Avoids "headline" markets (NYC, LA, Miami); instead targets steady returns in secondary cities.
"St. Louis is a perfect example. It’s never going to go that high. You’re never going to see an explosion... it delivers solid, steady returns."
— Andrew Kadish (29:30)
Market Observations
- Midwest & Mid-Atlantic: Still steady performers, but Maryland (especially Montgomery County) called out for regulatory risk (rent control dampening investment).
- Quote:
"...rent control has never increased supply. Rather, what it’s done is dampen investor interest—not only in just new starts and whatnot... but also in existing acquisitions."
— Andrew Kadish (31:00)
Affordable ("Capital A") vs. Market Rate Housing
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LIHTC properties: Consistent occupancy, no significant softening even as market-rate units see some softness.
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Higher retention: Both affordable and market-rate residents are staying put due to economic uncertainty.
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Quote:
"People are not moving nowadays... our number of applications at both sectors... you’re not seeing as many new customers... however, your occupancies—we haven’t seen a real true softening."
— Andrew Kadish (33:32) -
Rent collections: Still solid in affordable; COVID was the major hiccup, but not now.
Sunbelt & Filtering Effect
- Discussion on whether market-rate rent declines and income increases are pushing LIHTC residents upward: Kadish sees more “stickiness” and less migration than some fear. Not seeing major leapfrogging at present.
Policy Outlook & Recommendations
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Strong warnings against rent control and "headline policy" over substance.
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Solutions for affordable housing:
- Help with insurance/property tax costs (biggest immediate barrier for affordable developers)
- Cut regulatory red tape in LIHTC program (to open the field)
- Policy must be research-backed, not reactive or based on “snake oil” solutions
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Quote:
"Rent control has been proven to be just an ultimate weapon against affordability."
— Andrew Kadish (41:52)
Industry Trends: Consolidation & Operations
- Despite consolidation, Kadish sees a competitive niche for mid-size operators (10–25k units), especially those who balance personalized service with a streamlined, not overbuilt, tech stack.
- Warns of overwhelming staff with too much proptech, especially as AI hype grows.
- Advocates for: Fewer, smarter tech solutions; personal relationships; adaptability.
Development and New Ventures
- Capreit, long-time acquirer/operator, recently entered development due to crazy acquisition pricing in 2020-21.
- Building apartments for workforce in under-served, high-growth secondary markets (e.g., Naples, Bonita Springs, Ave Maria, FL).
- BTR (Build-to-Rent) Expansion:
- First project completed in Greenville, SC; quick lease-up after rough December launch.
- New project planned in Spartanburg; regions fit Capreit’s “secondary city” target model.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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Jay Parsons:
"I just think that it’s the least compassionate thing you can do for people in need is, is peddle them, disproven science and say this time it’ll be different." (48:31)
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Andrew Kadish (on rent control):
"It is quite a concern of mine and probably yours, Jay, I would assume that often what is happening is that the latest, you know, social media trend or whatnot... rather than just simply hearing, okay, well if we institute rent control, supply is going to go on up. People can afford to pay their rents. It’s just, it’s not, it has never happened in practice." (40:52)
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On development risk:
"My dad was just saying like those, those people, they have, their risk tolerance is insane. I’ll never get into that. Capri will never do that."
— Andrew Kadish (54:00) -
On tech and mid-size operator opportunity:
"We think we could operate more effectively with a more simplistic tech stack. You know, one where it’s essentially... five, maybe up to seven... software implementations." (52:13)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:03 – Intro — “Green shoots”
- 04:17 – Defining “Green Shoots”; Data trends; Focus on Atlanta
- 05:43 – Atlanta case study; rent change moderation
- 08:01 – Sunbelt market improvements/context
- 12:42 – Policy news: FTC, fees, transparency
- 14:17 – FTC quote segment
- 18:55 – Project Spotlight: Waterworks Village, Atlanta
- 21:28 – Trivia answer: Virginia Beach leads the South in rent growth
- 22:50 – Start of interview with Andrew Kadish
- 23:18 – Capreit origin story; the “failed” REIT IPO
- 27:53 – Portfolio overview; geographic focus
- 29:53 – Secondary cities vs. major “headline” markets
- 31:00 – Policy risks in Maryland/Montgomery County
- 32:58 – Affordable vs. market rate trends
- 34:49 – Rent collections in affordable units
- 38:15 – Sunbelt filtering effect on LIHTC
- 41:52 – Rent control as “ultimate weapon against affordability”
- 46:58 – Policy, red tape, and HUD reforms in LIHTC
- 49:58 – Consolidation and tech stack in property management
- 53:58 – Capreit’s move into development, BTR, and secondary markets
Summary for Listeners
This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a nuanced, data-driven view of multifamily’s gradual improvement after the downturn, as well as for those interested in the intersection of affordable housing policy, business operations, and industry trends. Jay and Andrew’s conversation delivers practical insights on how experienced operators are navigating both challenges and opportunities—from regulatory headwinds to proptech hype to entering new construction when traditional acquisitions no longer make sense. The tone is candid, grounded, and occasionally humorous, making complex industry issues accessible and relatable.