Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Rest Is Classified
Episode: 102. Putin's Secret Army: Criminals And Cannibals – Russia's War In Ukraine (Ep 5)
Host(s): David McCloskey & Gordon Corera
Date: November 24, 2025

Overview

This episode takes listeners deep into the formation and rise of Wagner Group as the spearhead—or perhaps the backstop—of Russia’s faltering invasion of Ukraine. Hosts David McCloskey (former CIA analyst and spy novelist) and Gordon Corera (veteran security correspondent) examine the unique, gruesome relationship between the Russian state, its mercenary armies, and its criminal underbelly. With sharp wit and access to inside stories, the hosts dissect Yevgeny Prigozhin's controversial tactics: recruiting criminals, deploying terrifying “meat waves,” and using sledgehammer executions to control his own men. At the heart is a chilling question: How did Russia’s shadow army go from denial to the pinnacle of its power—and what price comes with such unchecked brutality?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Russian Invasion of Ukraine: The Plan That Didn’t Survive First Contact

• Russian hubris:
  • 200,000 troops amassed at the border (02:59–04:05)
  • Initial Russian military plan: topple Zelensky and parade through Kyiv in 72 hours.
  • Wagner Group was not part of this original strategy; Prigozhin was out of favor, struggling to access decision-makers.

  “The Russian military… had their dress uniforms and instruments… ready for a parade when they got into Kyiv ... Instead, they meet fierce Ukrainian resistance and that plan collapses.” — Gordon (04:27)

  • Rumors abounded that Wagner hit squads were in Kyiv, but evidence now suggests otherwise—other mercenary groups may have been involved, but Wagner was sidelined until the plan unraveled.

2. Wagner’s Call to War: Opportunism Amid Chaos

• Wagner’s entry:
  • Prigozhin is brought in only after Russia’s military plan falls apart; called by Alexeev from the GRU on March 19, 2022 (05:44–05:57).
  • Wagner's ability to thrive where “someone else's plan has collapsed” (06:13).
  • Wagner’s numbers surge: from a few thousand to up to 85,000 fighters at the peak—larger than the British Army (07:43).

3. The Prison Recruitment Drive: Desperation and Barbarity

• How Wagner filled its ranks:
  • Prigozhin leverages his criminal past; personally tours Russian penal colonies to recruit (08:28–09:38).

    “You could be like me. You could live the dream. You could escape, you could do something.” — Gordon, paraphrasing Prigozhin (09:52)

  • Speech delivered to prisoners offering freedom and a pardon after six months of service, regardless of crimes — including murder and sexual offenses (10:26–12:47, full speech quoted below).
  • “Batch recruitment”: nearly 50,000 prisoners sign up (16:25).

    “It is a pretty frightening thing because… you could have a serial rapist… who then go fight and then get… released back into Russia.” — David (14:37)

  • The reality: cannibals, sex offenders, and murderers unleashed at the front—and subsequently, back home.

    “Supposedly get whole units of sex offenders… cannibals…” — Gordon (15:04)

4. The Prigozhin Speech: “You Could Be Like Me.”

[Full text delivered by hosts at 10:36–12:47]

“I'm the representative of a private military company… it's called PMC Wagner. The war in Ukraine is hard… My ammunition consumption is about twice as high as during the Battle of Stalingrad. The first sin is desertion: no one backs out, no one retreats, no one surrenders. During your training, you'll be told about two grenades you must have with you in case of imminent surrender… The second sin is alcohol and drugs. The third sin is pillaging, including sexual contact with local women. Flora, fauna, men, whatever… The minimum age that we accept is 22… The maximum age is 50, but this number is conditional… We also conduct careful examination of those who are incarcerated for sexual offenses. But we understand that people make mistakes… Who do we need? We need only stormtroopers…
…Those who join but on the first day say they are in the wrong place, will be considered deserters, and we will shoot them. Guys, do you have any questions?”
— Yevgeny Prigozhin speech, read by David (10:36–12:47)

Memorable Response:

“I mean, it also seems like… if you're in a Russian penal colony, you might really consider this… If you're at the start of a 30-year sentence… maybe it's worth a shot.” — David (13:29)

5. Wagner’s “Meat Waves” and Punishments: Brutality on Display

• Meat waves:
  • Prisoners thrown at Ukrainian lines with a week’s training, expected to die en masse to deplete Ukrainian defenses (16:54).

    “It was basically that the Russians would just throw waves of people at the Ukrainian lines who were cannon fodder. Knowing they would be killed just to exhaust the Ukrainians, run down their ammo… Then you send in your proper troops.” — Gordon (17:37)

• Punishment for desertion:
  • Famous case: Evgeny Nuzhin, recruited prisoner, surrendered to Ukraine, but returned in a swap—executed with a sledgehammer in a viral video (18:46–20:30).

    “A man then gets a sledgehammer and smashes his head in, which, as we've seen before, is the kind of the Wagner way of dealing with this. The video goes viral...” — Gordon (19:06)

  • Prigozhin’s flair for theater: Sends a sledgehammer (engraved, bloodied, in a violin case) to the European Parliament (20:08).

6. Prigozhin’s Embrace of Notoriety and “The Dark Side”

• Coming out in the open:
  • For years, Prigozhin denied involvement in Wagner or the Internet Research Agency; now he brags about both and positions himself as a Russian nationalist (23:15–24:28).

    “He’s going to embrace the kind of dark side. He’s going to say, 'You've heard of Wagner? I cleaned the old weapons myself… A group of patriots was born, which later came to be called the Wagner Battalion.'” — Gordon (23:16)

• PR machine:
  • Prigozhin depicted as the anti-elite, “everyman”—not a general or minister, but a self-styled defender of the motherland.
  • Early Wagner victories hyped; billboards appear; assassination rumors swirl—which only boost his image (24:31–25:24).

7. Political Tensions & Prigozhin’s Climb

• Partial Mobilization (Sept 2022):
  • Russian military mobilizes 300,000, youth flee the country, but Putin still avoids “full mobilization.”
  • Prigozhin and nationalists clamor for all-out war (25:24–27:46).
• General Surovikin (“General Armageddon”) put in charge: Reputation for brutality, aligned with Wagner.
• Wagner’s headquarters, branding, and political ambitions:
  • New St. Petersburg HQ, slick PR, hints of political aspirations denied repeatedly (27:50–29:06).
  • Prigozhin’s actual goal: acceptance into Putin’s innermost circle; perhaps the Defense Minister post.
• Putin’s Power Paranoia:
  • Russian autocrats historically fear not mass uprisings, but palace coups. Putin balances competing factions (29:08–31:23).
  • Prigozhin used as a “counterweight” to the military—until his mercenary army grows too powerful to ignore, raising the specter of a challenge to the state.

8. Prigozhin’s Downfall Foreshadowed

• Political limits:
  • As Wagner grows, Prigozhin oversteps:

    “He seems to be maybe running up against the limits of his political savvy… so intoxicated by… the growth that Wagner has seen in Ukraine that maybe he’s not able to see some of these challenges looming in front of him.” — David (32:50)

  • Prigozhin’s “hot headed” nature, cruelty, and disregard for limits will prove his undoing (33:32–34:31).
• Cliffhanger ending:
  • The next (final) episode will address Prigozhin’s ill-fated “march on Moscow”—the boldest challenge to Putin’s rule in a generation (34:31–35:01).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Russian planning:

  “No plan survives first contact with the enemy.” — Gordon (04:05)

• On Wagner’s growth:

  “At its peak, Wagner is going to have 85,000 troops. That is… bigger than the current serving British army.” — Gordon (07:43)

• On the price of recruiting criminals:

  “It is a pretty frightening thing… you could have a serial rapist… go fight and… get released back into Russia.” — David (14:37)

• Prigozhin’s brutal contract:

  “Those who join but on the first day say that they are in the wrong place, will be considered deserters, and we will shoot them.” — Prigozhin speech, read by David (12:43)

• On “meat waves”:

  “The Russians would just throw waves of people at the Ukrainian lines… to exhaust the Ukrainians… then you send in your proper troops.” — Gordon (17:37)

• On sledgehammer executions:

  “A man then gets a sledgehammer and smashes his head in, which, as we've seen before, is the kind of… Wagner way.” — Gordon (19:06)

• On Prigozhin’s PR genius and ambition:

  “He always knew… how to play the PR game, how to kind of brand himself… I’m not one of the elite, I’m not one of those generals or ministers who screwed up this war plan…” — Gordon (24:31)

• On Putin’s balancing act:

  “He’s always trying to balance different factions and individuals in his court to avoid anyone becoming too powerful and becoming a risk.” — Gordon (29:06)

• On political danger:

  “As Prigozhin… reaches his kind of zenith… this balance that Putin is trying to do is getting out of kilter. He is moving into a space that really only the Tsar, only Putin should be in.” — Gordon (31:23)

Key Timestamps

• 02:59–04:05 – Recap of Russia’s initial invasion strategy and why it failed.
• 04:27–05:57 – Wagner’s exclusion and subsequent call-up when the official plan collapses.
• 07:43 – Wagner’s fighting force surpasses the British Army.
• 08:28–09:38 – Prigozhin’s personal recruitment push in Russian prisons.
• 10:36–12:47 – The full, chilling recruitment speech by Prigozhin to prisoners.
• 16:25 – 50,000 prisoners recruited from penal colonies.
• 17:37 – The use of “meat waves” against Ukrainian lines.
• 18:46–20:30 – Sledgehammer execution broadcast and its implications.
• 23:15–24:28 – Prigozhin openly claiming Wagner and Internet Research Agency.
• 27:50–29:06 – Wagner’s rebranding, HQ, and political aspirations.
• 29:08–31:23 – Power dynamics and Putin’s fear of internal coups.
• 32:50–34:31 – Prigozhin’s fatal flaws and ominous foreshadowing.
• 34:31–35:01 – The episode cliffhanger: “march on Moscow” preview.

Language & Tone

Conversational, sometimes darkly humorous, but always incisive. The hosts blend Russian history, political intrigue, military detail, and grim reality with pithy asides and gallows humor. They lean into the bizarre and horror-laden aspects of Wagner’s story while never losing sight of the real-world consequences.

Conclusion

In this episode, listeners obtain a penetrating look into how Russia’s war in Ukraine became a proving ground for the modern mercenary—a bloody process reliant on criminal recruits, draconian discipline, and calculated propaganda. With Prigozhin’s rise came both battlefield gains and grave risks to Putin’s own regime. When mercenary armies rival state forces in power, the very stability of autocracy comes into question. The coming episode promises to reveal how that tension erupts.