Was Vogue Wrong to Publish a Fake Model?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Entertainment

Episode: Was Vogue Wrong to Publish a Fake Model?
Date: August 6, 2025
Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde

---

Episode Overview

In this Questions and Answers edition, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde bring their trademark wit and insider savvy to an eclectic selection of listener questions, ranging from the parliamentary lobby system to the ethics of AI models in fashion. The episode’s focal point is the debate over Vogue's recent use of an AI-generated model in an advertising campaign: the hosts dissect the backlash, the industry implications, and the broader question of authenticity in media and entertainment. Additional topics include the best jobs in showbiz, the inner workings of commercial classical music radio, and more, all with relatable anecdotes and fresh perspectives.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Parliamentary Lobby System: Inside Access for Journalists

Timestamps: 01:55–09:20

• Marina explains: The lobby is an accreditation system for political journalists, providing access to Downing Street briefings and a corridor where politicians and the press mingle.
• Lobby briefings (11am & 3:45pm) enable collective scrutiny, with journalists holding the floor on topics to exhaust lines of questioning.
• Marina: “Parliament is like Hogwarts. It's a place, therefore, that you instinctively understand if you're male and went to public school. – [03:28]”
• Criticism: The system fosters "cosy club" groupthink, but it helps spot stories rival papers are chasing, sometimes leading to defensive reporting.
• Anecdote: A journalist saves another from missing late-breaking news by advising, "Just sit at your desk."
• Comparison: UK lobby briefings allow dogged questioning in contrast to the more sanitized, televised U.S. White House briefings.

Notable Quote:

“The key thing about the lobby briefings is ... you don’t change the subject until the whole pack wants it to change. That allows for much better scrutiny.” – Marina Hyde [08:45]

---

2. Best Jobs in Entertainment: Fame, Fortune, and Anonymity

Timestamps: 09:38–14:59

• Listener Harriet proposes: "Being in Coldplay but not Chris Martin might be the ultimate entertainment job."
• Richard agrees: You get adrenaline, money, creative satisfaction—with less intrusive fame.
  • Richard: "If you want everyone to know your name but not your face ... being John Grisham would be amazing." [11:04]
  • Mention of Sia as an ideal for fame-with-anonymity.
• Other candidates: Magazine journalists of the 1980s, travel bloggers, and especially voiceover artists (“You rock up to a lovely studio, someone brings you tea and toast…”).
• Both reflect on how podcasting brings a pleasant sort of recognition from a niche, engaged audience.

Notable Quote:

“Being one of the other people in Coldplay is quite hard to beat.” – Richard Osman [10:03]

---

3. The Vogue AI Model Controversy: Where's the Line?

Timestamps: 16:52–24:51

Context

• Listener question: "What do you make of Vogue’s recent ad featuring an AI model? Where’s the line between extreme photoshopping and just using an entirely artificial model?"

Breakdown

• Background: The Guess ad in Vogue, produced by AI agency Seraphine Valora, led to industry backlash. Vogue's parent Condé Nast had to clarify: "an AI model has never appeared editorially in Vogue."
• Marina’s take: The controversy is a logical consequence of decades of extreme photoshopping: "Women Particularly have been modified in this way for so long that eventually this is what happened." [17:49]
  • The AI campaign eliminates entire job categories—casting directors, model, location, retouch, etc.—under the pretense of “sustainability.”
  • Industry touts "diversity" and carbon neutrality, but AI itself has its own carbon costs.
• Richard: For small businesses, AI models are an obvious, cost-effective solution. The global nature of major fashion houses makes restricting AI use impractical. Regional tailoring will likely grow.
  • "Our culture doesn’t work from the top down anymore. It does work from the ground up." [20:59]
• Marina: The “customizable at scale” aspect of AI models is irresistible for e-commerce giants (e.g., vast catalogs like Zara, Fenty Beauty’s targeted campaigns).
• Ethics: This technology will cause further job losses and continue the trend toward unrealistic beauty standards.

Notable Quotes:

"This is... the next logical step. If business doesn’t like it, then it opened the door.” – Marina Hyde [23:37]
“Every single job you talk about is a job lost ... but I don’t see a way of putting up the floodgates.” – Richard Osman [23:53]

---

4. Classic FM’s Programming: Commercial Radio Behind Classical Facade

Timestamps: 24:51–28:20

• Listener asks whether Classic FM presenters, e.g., Zeb Sones, influence their playlists.
• Richard interviews Alexander Armstrong (breakfast host): Like other commercial radios, Classic FM has A-, B-, and C-lists, with “double A” tracks for major segments (e.g., "Nessun Dorma", "Zadok the Priest", "Beethoven's Fifth").
• Presenters have input—their preferences are considered—but mainly stick to centrally-managed playlists.
• Marina and Richard riff on how classical or country radio can set a perfect mood (“It feels like you’re in a film”).

Memorable Exchange:

Richard (on “Zadok the Priest”): “Handle would be so happy to know that Zaydot the Priest was double A.” [28:20]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Parliamentary Reporting:
  • “You don't change the subject until... the whole pack wants it to change. That allows for much better scrutiny.” – Marina Hyde [08:45]
• On Dream Showbiz Jobs:
  • "Some people want to be in entertainment to be famous ... but for others, being 'the other guy in Coldplay' is perfect." – Richard Osman [10:03]
• On AI Models:
  • "This is the next logical step ... if business doesn't like it, it opened the door." – Marina Hyde [23:37]
  • "You can get an AI model for $5 a day ... a model-model for $5,000." – Marina Hyde [20:26]
• On Classic FM:
  • “When Handle wrote Zadok the Priest … I’d love to have been one of the first people to hear it.” – Marina Hyde [27:43]

---

Key Timestamps for Reference

• Parliamentary Lobby System: 01:55–09:20
• Best Jobs in Entertainment: 09:38–14:59
• Vogue AI Model Discussion: 16:52–24:51
• Classic FM Programming: 24:51–28:20

---

Tone and Style

Richard and Marina maintain their signature banter—intelligent, playful, and generous with behind-the-scenes wisdom. Their tone is conversational, frequently veering into comedic riffs, but always anchored by a clear-eyed analysis of big questions in entertainment and media.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a wide-ranging, entertaining survey of the fuzzy lines between authenticity and artifice in both politics and pop culture. Through listeners’ questions, Richard and Marina illuminate why the entertainment world works as it does—whether it’s the cozy traditions of Westminster reporting, the evolving economics of fame, or the existential questions posed by AI in fashion. As ever, they blend approachable anecdotes with astute observations, making you feel like an industry insider.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everyone. This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky.

[B]

Now, whether you're dancing through life in the Emerald City for the first time or flying back for a magical encore, Wicked is now on Sky Cinema. And with the Sky Glass, tv, Oz feels closer than ever.

[A]

Bring the gravity defying ballads home with a Dolby Atmos soundbar built in for a truly cinematic experience. The high notes and the harmonies have never sounded better.

[B]

Skyglass automatically adapts the picture and sound to whatever you're watching. Broomsticks. Whoosh. Faster ballads hit harder, emeralds gleam brighter. And with voice control, the real magic is doing it all without lifting a finger.

[A]

I love the idea of ballads hitting harder.

[B]

They couldn't hit harder.

[A]

Just say hello, Sky. Wicked. And it's showtime.

[B]

Enjoy the enchanting sights and sounds of oz in full 4K picture quality on Skyglass. From the best seat in the house, your own.

[A]

And if you want a smarter TV without lifting more than an impressed brow, head to sky.com requires relevant Sky TV

[B]

subscriptions, broadband recommended, minimum speed 30Mbps, 18 UK Channel Islands and island ban only. I'm not an astronaut. I don't need an astronaut.

[C]

Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe inspiring masterpiece.

[A]

So I met an alien.

[C]

If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan gosling in the first must see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG13, may be inappropriate for children under 13 only in theater March 20.

[B]

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

[A]

And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, Marina.

[B]

Hello, Richard. How are you?

[A]

I'm very, very well. I have a number of questions. Can I, can I start with one that's right up your street? Yes, I see the title Parliamentary Lobby System and I think Marina Hyde, many

[B]

asked this, I solicited this question that's been clear last week.

[A]

Now this question is from Al Marston, or could be AI Marston. Marina, you asked for a question on the parliamentary lobby system last week when talking about the Royal Rota. So what is the parliamentary lobby system? That's the way to ask a question,

[B]

how long have you got Al? Because like the Royal Rota, it is a system of accreditation for journalists to cover a particular thing, in this case the workings of Parliament and the government. So it's used as sort of channel of communication between the government, but particularly Downing street and the press. And if you're in it, you get a lobby pass and you work on the lobby corridor.

[A]

The lobby corridor. That's confusing. Confusing. Does it come off the lobby?

[B]

It's named after the members lobby.

[A]

Okay, that makes sense.

[B]

In the. In the palace of Westminster, where you

[A]

just said the palace of Westminster. Hold on a minute.

[B]

I'll come on to that in a minute. Because actually, it is a mess.

[A]

Amanda, you're listening. Palace of Westminster.

[B]

Anyway, that the members lobby is where politicians and members of the press can interact freely. A bit like the mixed zone in a. In a football match.

[A]

It's like Box park in Croydon.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like that. The lobby system comprises daily briefings at 11 and at 3:45, which are conducted by the Prime Minister's official spokesman. That's the sort of rubric of it all. But I asked Rob Hutton, who is for many, many years a lobby correspondent for Bloomberg, and he now writes really funny parliamentary sketches, which are so good. He's such a. He's a great person for the critic he writes. And they're very, very good. I mean, the whole thing is falling down, as in the whole of the palace of Westminster is falling down.

[A]

Do you know what I call it? I call it the palace of Westminster.

[B]

Great.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

Many times the journalists have tried to get a cat because there are so many mice in the office and in the offices, but basically the lobby. So, okay, this system, Parliament is like Hogwarts. It's a place, therefore, that you instinctively understand if you're male and went to public school.

[A]

And you're a Slytherin.

[B]

Yeah, and you're a Slytherin. Exactly. And if not, it can be a very unfriendly place. There are various rules of what you're allowed to do when you're in the lobby and how it all works. But those meetings are crucial. The lobby briefings, which are, as I say, in the morning and the afternoon. Obviously, the criticisms of the lobby are that it's this cosy club and they all work together. But it's hard because they sit with those people sometimes for sort of 30 years. They don't sit with their newspapers, which are located. Some are totally different. So people.

[A]

So their office is the Houses of Parliament. Yeah.

[B]

Then you have to trip over to the. Many of us think of as the Allegra Stratton Memorial Briefing Suite. Do you remember that during Partygate, basically Boris Johnson wanted to break it at all costs?

[A]

I like people who like to disrupt and break things. Yeah, I love that. I'm very much looking forward to them putting everything back together again. But the breaking of it I've loved.

[B]

Yeah, like someone once said about Stalinism, you know. Okay, I see all these broken eggs now. Where is this omelette of yours, anyway? Wanted to break the lobby, and they constructed this huge, sort of nearly £3 million, this briefing suite. They wanted to televise the press briefings, which. The lobby briefings, which I think is absolutely wild. I know why they wanted to do it, because you look at what happens at the White House. The White House briefings are all televised. Everyone gets one question, and it's incredibly genteel. What they wanted to do was kind of civilize the process and make them behave better. The key thing about the lobby briefings is that they have a system where you don't change the subject until it's quite that the whole pack want it to change. And you're not allowed to say or tweet or do anything about it until the meeting has fully ended. So you hold the floor. So people can just keep going and going and going on the same subject and everyone can ask a question. And so the pack thing works well in that way. And they wouldn't have allowed that if they televised it, which they're always trying to do, because it's a way of controlling it. It can go on for an hour like that, of people doing it. But what happened, that's like the question

[A]

and answer thing at the end of a book festival. Yeah, I feel that could go on for an hour if you really let it.

[B]

What people criticize the lobby for is the cooperation. You work together for a long time. As you're trudging back from the briefing, you're saying, okay, what's the line? You're always trying to say, what's new? Because that's today's. You know, where's the movement? And because of the way politics is done in this country, and particularly political reporting, you're talking about millimeters all the time.

[A]

And presumably it's what they've said, but also what they didn't say.

[B]

Yeah, what they said, what they said before is that. So you. They're all saying, is that new? No, hang on. He said that six months ago. They also, obviously all have their own stories, stories that they're working on separately.

[A]

They're not sitting around. This is not the only job, is listening to these two briefings. And no, no, not the writing them down.

[B]

It's. I mean, it's. I mean, in many ways, it's the least worst system. But the big enemy, of course, as always, is the news desk. That is what leads to lots of the stories being very similar, because, no disrespect to the many of the great news desk figures this is going to be.

[A]

I feel like there's going to be a lack of respect here.

[B]

I'll tell you what, people on the news desk love something they don't have. And when the new editions of the papers or whatever, they go online, they love what they don't have. So they want to know, why has the Times got this story and we don't have that? He's like, yeah, because that's one of the Times is hobby horses. And they're going to be really interested in that and that's why they've written it up in that way. So what Rob said is that he ended up writing a huge amount of defensive copy because you can see from the briefing, oh, the sun have asked 10 questions about this. They're going to go really big on that tomorrow. So you think, I would rather write up this version of the story for whoever in a way that will at least address what the sun are going to go really big with tonight.

[A]

So they can.

[B]

Otherwise I'll be doing it at 10 o' clock at night.

[A]

So those lobby journalists, quite apart from just listening to what the Prime Minister's spokesperson is saying, are also spotting what stories some of the other papers might have by working out what questions.

[B]

Yeah, and so that perception of groupthink, in part is a response to, you know, you're all interested in the same subject and actually if lots of people asking questions from different angles can sometimes throw up something really interesting, you know, if someone else has gone really big on something, going to be getting a call at 10 o' clock saying, well, why didn't we have that? And it's the same in football, does the same, by the way. I mean, they would carve out lots of different things altogether and all agree on it, because nobody wants to be at sort of 3am in a different time zone and say, why have the sun got this and you haven't? So there is some sharing and people look out for each other. Rob remembered one day when he was thinking, he rang his wife and said, I've sort of finished, I think I'm going to go home. And rang his wife, said, I'm going to go home. And Mike White, who used to be the political editor the Guardian, literally ran down the corridor after him and said, don't go home. And he said, why? And he said, just sit at your desk, don't do anything, just sit at your desk. And then there was a really big reshuffle of that. So he knew. He didn't tell him that there was going to be one, but he made sure that he didn't actually go home. So there's this sort of camaraderie.

[A]

And is that the same with Mike White, who later wrote the White Lotus?

[B]

Yes, one and the same. Don't say there's no second acts in political journalism.

[A]

And he was in School of Rock, of course.

[B]

Yeah. And not having it televised is good.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I mean, as we say, the White House ones are just a complete wank. They're just completely useless. Christopher Hope from the Telegraph now at GB News. But almost the last question for such a long time Rob was remembering was, yeah, but did David Cameron borrow a horse from Rebecca Books and go riding on it? And it was like, battered away for, honestly, weeks, months, and he's just asked it at the end every single day.

[A]

Did he?

[B]

And in the end, yes, the principle is you do not change the subject to your question if. Unless you're sure that the whole group has finished on that subject. And that allows for much better scrutiny than, as you can see, what happens in the White House briefing where they. They allow certain people to be excluded and the journalists don't stand in solidarity. I mean, it's a mess. And their journalism takes itself so seriously.

[A]

If anybody at home. I know you asked for this question to be asked this week, and I can see why. That was fascinating. But if anyone at home wants to ask us if we've ever borrowed a horse from Rebecca Brooks, that would be a good question for next week. It'll be like a really short one.

[B]

And sent it back in a poor condition, I believe.

[A]

Did he?

[B]

Yes, it was a police horse, I think it was called. Wasn't it called Raisa? It was named after Raisa Gorbachev. I don't know. I remember that.

[A]

Oh, my God, this story is suddenly amazing.

[B]

And sent it back in a bad cond.

[A]

Oh, you can't send a horse back in a bad condition.

[B]

Well, David Cameron can.

[A]

You have to send them back in a stable condition.

[B]

Okay, this is one for you and a really hard one, actually. A good observation from Harriet Grace. I have a theory that being in Coldplay but not being Chris Martin is the best job in the world, or at least in entertainment. You get to live out your best rock and roll life, playing to massive audiences and getting paid handsomely for it. But you also rarely get asked to have to do promo. And you can probably still pop to Tesco's without getting hassled because nobody recognizes you. What do you think the best job in entertainment is, Harriet?

[A]

That's a great call. I mean, that might be the best job in this. I know. Exactly what I mean. Some people want to be in entertainment to be famous, and then therefore being one of the other people in Coldplay is not the best job, then I guess being Chris Martin would be the best job. But yeah, I think if you want the joy of being in a creative industry and you want absolute load of money and you want huge amounts of adrenaline, but you can also walk down the street, then being in Coldplay is quite hard to beat. To beat.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

As a job in show business, I think that's. That would be very, very high to

[B]

have the live stage experience and all of that is.

[A]

Yeah, they do have to do loads of promo. I'll say that. Even if you're the bassist in Coldplay, you're doing promo, like constantly. My brother was telling me about, I'm in the middle of signing books at the moment. I'm doing like 18,000. My record was 38,000. Because every country in the world wants signed books because. And every indie bookseller. So you try and do as many as you possibly can. You know, I can do about a thousand an hour. My brother was telling me that Coldplay have just signed 150,000 albums each.

[B]

Each.

[A]

Yeah, 150,000. Which feels like an impossibility. I always thought that the best job in showbiz if what you want is the glamour when you want it and not when you don't want it. If you want a lot of money, if you want everyone to know your name but not know your face. I always thought, like, being John Grisham would be amazing because people who know John Grisham know him or Sia. Sia. Oh, my God, that's perfect. So if you're John Grisham, you know, he's made hundreds of millions. If he ever rings up a restaurant where you can't get a table and says it's John Grisham, they go, oh, John Grisham, of course you can have a table. But, you know, he can. He can walk down the street fairly unmolested.

[B]

I can't do you an e fit of him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, if you. If you read the books, you know what he looks like on the back of the books. And so fans will stop you every now and again. But most people don't pay that much attention to what authors look like. If I am In America it's just a joy because I don't get stopped on the street and all that kind of stuff. But if you stopped at customs and they say you're an author and you tell them who you are, people have heard of you and have read the books. So it's like, it's like you are John Grisham. But, but for America you just have a whole holiday where you can do exactly what you want, where you want. I would say being John Grisham, Andy Peters, who is such a lovely fella and just gets to do those competitions on, on gmb and you know, that's a nice gig and everyone loves him and you know, he's been in that world for so long and you know, is, is, is adored by everyone. That's a nice job to have, I would say like those magazine journalists from the kind of 80s who'd be paid millions and millions and millions and wouldn't really have to do and go around the world and be completely unbothered. Being like, yeah, being like a travel blogger, something like that, where everyone knows who you are so you get to spend your entire life on holiday. Wherever you go on holiday, people absolutely love you. But outside of your sphere, no one would necessarily recognize you that that would be a nice entertainment job.

[B]

Just depends what your values are. As if adjusting each of those dials would lead to a different job. But I do think the other people in corporate is quite good. But as you said, they, they, they work harder than you think.

[A]

What's the difference between being a podcaster and being economist?

[B]

People stop me all the time now and I've never had that. I don't think really at all. I've never had that. Or sometimes I would, you know, if I was wandering around Islington joke, but you know what I mean.

[A]

But this is nice because we're very fortunate in that the people who consume what it is you do are very important as well. Because for this, even on my holidays, I've never had a non nice interaction with people who listen to the thing and people are always interested. Interesting. They've always got something to tell you. How many times do people mention Glen Powell to you now?

[B]

Well, not, not enough times. Not enough times. You know, by all means, come and chat Glen Powell to me.

[A]

But it's one of those rare questions where Harriet might have absolutely nailed it in the question being one of the other guys at a Coldplay. Yeah, must be one of, you know, because what a joy, you're still in a gang with your mates. You're doing this incredible stuff that you believe in and that you're proud of. You know, every year is bigger and bigger and bigger. You're not really spending a huge amount of time in studio.

[B]

It's like being in the band that we talked about or the heavily made up bands, but anyway, which again, for

[A]

some people would be a nightmare. Because they want to be famous.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, most people who start out in rock music do actually want to be famous.

[A]

Being easily disguisable, I think would be useful. I'm very, very hard to disguise. Or the other best job maybe is, is somebody does loads and loads of voiceovers. It is alarmingly well paid. Still, people don't really know it's you. You get to. You just go into Soho. There are very little, very few jobs in TV now where you don't have to, you know, be made up and do your hair and worry about what you're wearing. You know, you go on radio shows. I know, but like voiceovers, it's the last thing where you just, you, you rock up to a lovely studio, someone brings you tea and toast. You read that script and there are people who do that full time, day in, day out. That's a nice, that's a nice entertainment gig.

[B]

Right, shall we go to a break?

[A]

Yes. That was a long first half.

[B]

It was, it was, yeah.

[A]

Hey, everyone. This episode is brought to you by

[B]

sky, which means it's time to talk about Mr. Big Stuff. The sky original comedy which earned Danny Dyer a BAFTA for season one, his first bafta.

[A]

He returns as Lee, a man reacting to major life developments with self pity, avoidance and long afternoons in a garden chair.

[B]

His brother Glenn, played by Ryan Sampson, the show's creator and a fan favorite from Brassic and Plebs, takes a different approach, launching an investigation despite having no qualifications beyond stress, impulse and alarming levels of determination.

[A]

One of those that. It's not exactly what you expect, but also such a great reminder that the mighty Danny Dyer is such a colossus in the middle of our culture.

[B]

It's sharp, it's chaotic, it's tender, with cameos from Linda Henry, Sean Williamson and Ruler Lenska to keep things grounded.

[A]

Also, Danny Dyer's one of those people, if you turn up on a TV show and he's also on, you think, oh, we're in for a fun day here. And also whenever you're watching a TV program or a film and he turns up, you're thinking, oh, we're in for some fun here. Listen, I'd watch him on a film. I'D watch him on an entertainment show. I'd watch him on Mr. BigStar.

[B]

All episodes of Mr. Big Surf series two are available on sky and series one's there too. If you'd like to trace the spiral back to its source. Requires relevant Sky TV subscription. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[A]

And.

[B]

And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[A]

Welcome back, everyone. Marina, this is a question that I'm really, really interested in, so thank you. Could do better. Who's written on the wrestlers entertainment? Discord, he says. I'm curious what you both make of Vogue's choice to include an ad featuring an AI mod in their recent issue. Where's the line between photoshopping a real life model to death to get the look that companies are after and just cutting out the middle man or woman altogether?

[B]

That is a really good point.

[A]

Do you know what? This is a really fascinating one and

[B]

it's a huge thing now. And we're right in that if you didn't see this, this was a guess ad that ran in Vogue. They disclosed it, you have to disclose it under, certainly under EU law anyway. And it said produced by Seraphine Valora, which who were an AI agency on AI. I don't know what they thought the reaction would be, but the reaction has been really in the sort of fashion community and there's been a huge backlash. Basically the agency Seraphone Velora, who they're London based, they're an AI agency. There are just these two women that I've saw them interviewed on the BBC and they said, you know, we were asked by a guest to do this and we did it. But the backlash has been significant enough that Conde Nast, who the parent company of Vogue, issued a statement to CNN saying that an AI model has never appeared editorially in Vogue. Okay, obviously this is going to be a huge thing. I totally agree that things are so photoshopped and have been so modified that what did you expect would happen? And I almost feel, I mean, you know, it's almost like a sort of short story with a painful moral that if you do they women Particularly have been modified in this way for so long that eventually this is what happened. But, you know, I can see the benefit of it. They eliminated the casting director, the location manager, the model, every single shoot technician, the travel, which they. Of course, they're now selling this as a sustainable and carbon neutral way, you know, but, you know.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Because AI is famously carbon neutral.

[B]

It's famously carbon neutral, Richard. And then you don't have the retoucher. And also it saves time because when any of one of these shoots happen, I was talking to someone who basically commissions these things for a Vogue title. There's so many weeks of back and forth in terms of how it will look. And when it eventually goes in as a campaign, this happened really quickly.

[A]

You presumably can Show a client 30 different models, like in one set. You know, you just show them lots of different things.

[B]

Well, there's all these ethical issues with it, and they're now saying, oh, we can be much more diverse because we use certain platforms. There's a thing called fair face. And so the proprietary scans come from diverse models. It's less carbon heavy than having to take everyone on a photo shoot. I mean, in some ways, fashion has done it to themselves. I remember the first time I ever went to a high fashion show, which was in the 90s, and a friend of mine was a very successful model. And it was so weird. You suddenly realize that it's like an alien race. The model, they're not like us at all, that you can't really almost. It's like a separate spec and they kind of look incredible and whatever, but you don't really almost feel like you're the same as them. It's so extraordinary. So we know it's unrealistic, but that's fine. And I get that. And it sells the clothes and it's wonderful. And then, of course, all the retouching became such a big issue because you could do far more than you ever could when people were literally sort of painting things out. In the old days, digital changed everything. I think in 2016 that Lil Miquela, the CGI influencer, came in and I mean, lots of people have been photographed with her and she's been used to sell all sorts of things. H and M recently said they're going to do twin models so that they can use then your digital likeness in a way. But if you think of the size of E commerce platforms now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And how many pictures are on, say, the Zara website, are you going to dress a model up in every single one of Those light her, make her change it, change the look, do the makeup again for every single one of those items. When these people are selling kind of thousands and thousands of things now for a small business as well, if you want to start your small business, you know, I know all the drawbacks of all this stuff, but you have, you know, fashion has always been a kind of quite remorseless business. You can get an AI model for in the US$5 a day and you can get a model model for, if you want to get quite a good one for $5,000.

[A]

Well, that's, that's the issue across most industries. It's all very well, you know, for Guess and Vogue, which are Hughen and Conde, NASA, who are absolutely huge to listen to a backlash and to put things in place. But our culture doesn't work from the top down anymore. It does work from the ground up. And it is going to happen time and time and time again that as you say, if you've got a small company or a small campaign or something like that, you are going to use AI models because you can and because suddenly the barriers to entry are much lower. So you're going to do that. So that's going to happen, happen, happen from the ground up, from the top down, you're going to say we can't, we can't, we can't. At what point does the line come? At what point do we say everything above here we don't use AI models, Everything below here we do use AI models. It's sort of impossible. Especially other, other countries will have is going to be absolutely impossible.

[B]

The other countries thing is fascinating because so many of these are globalized businesses. So one of the things it allows you to do is tailor it to your regional audience. So say you're selling. Zara is selling some. I'm just using Zara as an example of a globalized firm. I'm not saying they do do this at all. In fact, I don't think they do, but they will. I think companies like Zora will end up doing this because you'll say you're selling to North America, to South America, to Eastern Europe. You may tailor that completely what you do with the model for the same garment in individual territories. You also can do what actually someone like Rihanna has used for her company. Fenty Beauty has done these targeted little micro campaigns. Fenty Beauty is like a huge success story, but she's able to do, do sort of quite targeted micro campaigns to. Once they have your data, of course they know what sort of things you're into and many of those are AI driven. You know, as I keep saying, they keep going on about, oh, it's sustainable, it's all these sort of things. But the model is customizable and they're customizable at scale is something that's very significant for these businesses that have huge amount of individual units and individual styles that they're selling. If you think of some, a company like ASOS or something like that, if you're a model for that company, then you're going to have to get I don't know how many items of clothing on a day so that they can shoot the. Because they're constantly, they don't have like a spring collection and a summer collection. The clothes are coming in all the time. So there will always be shooting and they will always be putting the stuff out there. But it's a completely labor intensive thing and those people work very, very fast. It's almost like the equivalent of shooting a soap opera. An ad campaign for guests in the old days would be a massive trip abroad. So many people going on it and as I say, weeks and weeks and weeks of people tailoring it and trying to get it right because it's the biggest thing that, and it's the adverts that keep magazines or keep fashion publications even online going. So it's very significant that they use this ad and permitted it and it will not be the last we see of it.

[A]

It's going to be non stop right now.

[B]

It's going to be non stop. And I also agree with you actually that yes, photoshopping and doing all those, all of the digital enhancements that have happened to women, particularly fashion models, is this not. I'm afraid this is the next logical step and if business doesn't like it, then it opened the door.

[A]

It is awful, isn't it? Because every single you talk about is a job lost. Yeah, but I, I, I don't see a way of putting up the floodgates given that anyone entry level can and will do this. And as you say, and it's happened in lots of industries, you know, books of fashion, all sorts of things where stuff has been done to order and has done to a certain algorithm. And you think, well you've been doing that for ages. This is, as you say, this is the, you know, pigeons coming home to roost, isn't it? There's going to be so many of these stories but the choice is going

[B]

to become, as always, do you do this and survive because everybody else is doing or whatever or do you say, oh, we just don't do this. And as you have said, it will be the more niche people who say, we don't do this, we're art house fashion models or whatever it is, or art house cinema, we don't do this. But some of the big commercial stuff, it's just too tempting for them to not use this technology.

[A]

There is an upside to being a real human being and playing a real piano and being a real model and

[B]

have a look at that, Jess. Once you know, you know, there is something uncanny and weird about it. But I think that they knew people would talk and it definitely won't be as they did not issue a statement saying we'll never do it. They just said it hasn't happened so far. Right. Richard. Graham Upton has been on with a question about Classic fm. I would be very interested to know, he says, to what extent Classic FM presenters influence the choice of music played on their programs. For example, Zeb Sones, who's one of my favorite presenters, frequently plays more unusual works on his show in comparison to others on the schedule.

[A]

Funnily enough, I know a Classic FM presenter. His name is Alexander Armstrong. So I spoke to him. He does the breakfast show there. It is very, very similar to all commercial radio. Funnily enough, we think of classical music as slightly more kind of arcane. And, you know, Xander says, well, if you're at Radio one, if you're at Radio two, if you're at Classic fm, you know, you've got your A list, you've got your B list, you've got your C list and certain things are put in rotation. There's. Someone has to be across what gets like. Exactly. It's got a great pr.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Said my favorite thing is the, the, the double A list that you said, which, which is for the real tub Thumpers. And the, the, the three examples, he goes, Nissan Dormer, Zadok, the priest, Beethoven's Fifth, etc. Which especially reserved for, for tops of hours or coming. Coming out of breaks. So I love that.

[B]

I used to have a fantastic CD called Classical Music from the Adverts, which was the extent of like, you would have loved it. Yeah, R Street.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds absolutely perfect.

[B]

I know. I'd love to be able to find it. I'm devs.

[A]

But Zana says, and this, this, this is the case in most commercial radio stations as well. You know, the controllers of the, the, the chann, they know what Zeb Zone's like, they know what Xander likes. And so they, they'll put in Stuff that they know that Xander enjoys playing and he can talk to his audience in. In an interesting way about. And, you know, there are special themed weeks and all sorts of things. So I sort of felt like, of course it's obvious that it's exactly the same as any commercial radio station. You know, think of classical music like, you know, being like Motown and, you know, Brit pop. Yeah, it's funny, but. But of course it is. So, you know, the channel needs to have a certain mood at certain times a day. You know, it. Sure. You're not hearing the same song piece, you know, too often. It needs to make sure that there are uplifting things. And so, yeah, they have programmers doing all of that, but the individual hosts will of course stick to those playlists. But as Graham says about Zeb Zones, and as Xander says here, they're also aware of what their individual DJs are they called DJs on Classic FM presenters? Yeah, let's say what. What their specialities are, what their audience likes to hear them play. So, you know, there. There is some leeway there, but no, it's. It's exactly the same as any commercial special radio station in the evenings and weekends.

[B]

Is there ever like a Zadok morning? Is that a real breath? Is that. Does it come out a lot on the Breakfast Show?

[A]

Zadok, yeah. When Handle wrote Zadok the Priest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The first time. Because it's quite mental.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would love to have been one of the first people to hear it.

[B]

I'd have loved to have done the

[A]

video where Handles going. Yeah, I got this thing. Was it called Zadot the Priest? Huh? So the what? The what? The what? Z. The Priest. Okay, well, listen. Well, come on, play it. You're like, oh, yeah, no, I. Do you know what? I really like it. I think it's very brave, I think. Yeah. It feels like it's not like a lot of your other stuff. It's. Yeah, yeah. No, honestly, it's. I actually have to go now, but it is. Can you send me a CD of it? I would love to. Yeah. I'll listen. I'll. I'll play it to the gang. But. And now look, it's a. It's a double A banger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Handle would be so happy to know that Zaydot the Priest was double A.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I love Classic fm. If ever we're driving through the countryside, we always just stick it on. It feels like. It kind of feels like. Always feels like you're in a film.

[B]

I've never driven to America without listening to country. You just have to keep it locked.

[A]

We had all the way to. From LA to Palm Springs, we listened to Chris Stapleton radio, which is Chris Stapleton, and just things that are like Chris Stapleton. Yeah, keep it locked. That's us done. I think we have a bonus episode tomorrow where we finally reveal the result of the greatest British sitcom of all time, as voted for by our members. And also, don't forget, if you're a member, you can try and win one of those 10 pairs of tickets to the Thursday Murder Club premiere.

[B]

Full of stars and full of you.

[A]

Also me. I'll be there. I'll be. I'll be. Glasses off, headphones on, baseball cap on, but you'll still know it's me.

[B]

Completely unrecognizable.

[A]

Yeah, you get this. Isn't that the guy from Wednesday?

[B]

Other than that, we will see you next Tuesday.

[A]

See you next Tuesday.

[B]

This episode was brought to you by our good friends at sky who've made something rather special.

[A]

Yep, a tv. And a smarter one at that called Sky Glass. No box, no dish, no cables creating abstract modern art on the wall. Just one sleek screen that does it all.

[B]

It adapts to what you're watching too. A Spanish villa in the Day of the Jackal, a jungle paradise in a nature documentary, or poolside in the White Lotus. The crystal clear picture quality will make you feel like you're right there, there. Minus the questionable company, Sky, Netflix, Disney

[A]

plus Apple tv plus your favorite apps built into one place. Gone are the days of app hopping your way to a perfect evening's entertainment.

[B]

If you fancy a TV with the latest tech and unmissable titles, visit sky.com requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscriptions.

[A]

Broadband recommended. Minimum speed 30Mbps, 18/uk Channel Islands and Isle of Man.

[C]

Only Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

[A]

So if you've been living in the

[C]

white can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe. And every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.