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- [00:10]
A
Hello and welcome to the Rest Is Football with me, Gary Lineker. On today's episode, obviously, we're going to discuss the fact that England are through to the last 16 of the world Cup. To discuss that with me, we've got Micah Richards, Rob Beckett, Brad Friedel and Joe Cole. And don't forget, if you prefer to watch the show, it's on Netflix every day.
- [00:34]
B
Kane and Bellingham are our two superstars and most teams rely on those big moments. Big moments, players.
- [00:41]
C
That's why I think we got a chance, because you've got two of your best players at the top of their powers. Forget everyone else. Declan's a little bit off. He's carrying something. You know, we're not really. We don't look like we're assured at the back, but you've got two best players firing, so you're going into the last 16, you've got a chance.
- [00:57]
D
And if you want.
- [00:57]
E
Are you surprised Mainoo hasn't come on at all?
- [01:00]
C
We said today we thought he'd come on when we needed to find a pass, but what I would say was too cool. He said before the tournament started, 15 or 16 players, he makes the same substitutions. He's got a way of playing and he could have quite easily panicked today and thrown Ollie Watkins on or Ivan Toney. I was panicking at one point. We were talking about, who's the next England manager? Is it Eddie Howe?
- [01:21]
D
It's before the hydration break.
- [01:22]
C
Before the hydration break. We're trying to change the manager, Micah.
- [01:26]
B
It was obviously a slow start for England and we were all getting a little bit. But I think after the hydration break. Commercial break. He did make a difference. He made a difference again in the second half with his changes and the hydration. And I think that's really important as an aspect of what happened today, because he was on the brink, probably of getting Eddie out of the job.
- [01:54]
F
Well, you guys, I think against Ghana, against Panama, you saying it was going to get better, and I don't want to debate with you, but I'm still not seeing good enough signs. And I'd like you to put your point across in terms of, do you think this team can get better? Do you think they're going to grow into the tournament from the evidence that you've seen in the first four games?
- [02:19]
B
Yes, I think so. I think I was encouraged by today's display. A lot of people weren't. I was. I think it was a poor start. First 15, 20 minutes, but I think there were thrust by the Goal. I think they were thrown by the goal. It had a little bit of a setback. Then you had the little break and then after that, I thought actually the last two thirds of the match, I thought England played pretty well, created a lot of chances. I know it's not the greatest opposition, but they still, you know, you have to respect them. They're very well organized. They hardly had any chances against England. They had the one that they hit the post whistle at the post. But that's going to happen in games. We always think, I think when we're watching England that we should score loads of goals and not, like, consider any chances whatsoever. I think there were a lot of encouraging signs in that display. I thought we were on the front foot. We had to be. I thought our centre forward was superb. His changes were really good. All in all, I was encouraged by that display. And we're going to play matches in the World cup and you can grow in the tournament. So I was actually mildly encouraged. Obviously you can look at things like, well, on the counter, we looked a little bit troubled, but you've got to remember we played nearly all that game. We're chasing the goal, so you're going to leave spaces at the back. You've got to take chances under those circumstances which you perhaps wouldn't take against perhaps better opposition. Or also, if you're not trailing. Joe. I don't.
- [03:48]
C
No, I agree. I think, you know, if you're Thomas Tuchel, the one thing that England have struggled with is when you have to play with fear. You're one nil down to Congo and you're the player 15 minutes in, you're thinking, if we don't win this game, we'll be ridiculed. It's another Iceland thing. And so they mentally have to go over that hurdle. And I thought they played with composure, they made chances. The goalkeeper for Congo was unbelievable. Right. So I think if I'm Thomas Tuchel now, that, like, you're relieved, you're relieved. But you're coming into the dressroom and I'm. And I'm going to the lads. You showed massive bollocks there.
- [04:22]
B
Correct.
- [04:24]
C
You stuck together, you kept going. And that will help England going into the tournament because they got over a hurdle there for sure.
- [04:30]
E
I'm encouraged with England in a different way because I've co commentated on a couple of their games now. They really struggled against the low block. As you go on in the tournament, you're not playing teams that sit in the low block.
- [04:43]
C
That's all done now.
- [04:44]
E
And that's their strength. So they're going to go to Mexico City. Mexico Mexicans are going to come flying at them and they're going to be able to use their strengths and have Bellingham drive with the ball, have whoever plays in the wing drive with the ball and then they'll be able to serve as Kane. I think that'll suit them a lot more.
- [04:57]
D
They could have scored four or five if it weren't those two saves from Bellingham's headers.
- [05:01]
B
You know, I mean, the goalkeeper make great saves. Also, I think it's important to mention that England should have had a penalty. Now. I think Var have had a terrible couple of days, three decisions in today's the games that we've just seen. I and you know this obviously the Harry Kane one, it was clearly nailed on penalty and that changes things.
- [05:23]
C
Nailed on as a penalty, as you'll see in World cup. Going through on goal. Like the whole point of having the rules of football is like if you make a mistake as the goalie did he come out? He's in no man's land. He knows as soon as the goalie's out there, I'm never going to get there. Harry Kane, all he's done, he's gone. Right. I'm just going to wait a little bit. I've already knocked it past him.
- [05:41]
E
The referee's got it wrong and the goalkeeper put his hand out first. That was the mistake. Instead of pulling away right away, he put the hand out first, clipped him, then pulled it.
- [05:50]
B
Micah's huffing and puffing in the background there.
- [05:58]
F
I agree with a lot of what you guys said in terms of having that courage and when you go one down and fighting back and all that sort of thing. If we don't have Harry Kane, we don't win.
- [06:11]
B
But we have got Harry Kane.
- [06:14]
E
It's the same for. It's the same for Argentina and Messi. It's the same for France and Mbappe. Well, maybe a little less because of Olis than melee.
- [06:22]
F
Right, let's put this into context. We have played probably 90 minutes of decent football. Let's have it right. We can all look at the game, we can all analyze the game. And second half against Croatia, absolutely fabulous. Take what you guys say in terms of the conviction, the rotations really good. And then you go into the next game against Ghana, the game wasn't great at all. You can say low block or we won or whatever, but England should be able to break down a low block. And then you go into Panama. It's More of the same. You're relying on individual brilliance to get you over the line and then you go against Dr. Congo. If the opposition was a higher ranked team, I would take your points, definitely. But the defence and the midfield is so disorganized, it's unreal. They don't know if they're staying or they don't know if they're going. The conundrum at right back is really frustrating me and we've constantly talked about players who are not there and we won't have to do that. But the fact that obviously Libramento gets injured. Spence, he's a left back all season, then he's played right back. Now we're talking about Shulkonse to play in that position. It's almost like we're creating our own problems from within. And I tell you now, if we continue to play like we are playing, then we're not getting to the final.
- [07:51]
B
I take your point with the first 20 minutes, 25 minutes of that game. In fact, Jude Bellingham's 30th minute header, where the keeper made a good save, was England's first shot in the game. Their longest wait for a first attempt on record in a FIFA World cup match. But I think after that, I think they were shook by the goal a little bit, which is not necessarily a good thing. And I get your point in midfield, but you're chasing the game and you're bombing players forward. I would like to see a change when I think they will change a little bit. If England play against, you know, perhaps the more favored opposition, the tides that might go all the way in this competition, he might think about his midfield a little bit more because at the moment it's a little bit all over the shop because I'm not sure Anderson's a holder really, and I think Bellingham's obviously a bomber and he's playing at 10. He's all over the place. Rice is a wrong runner up and down, and I just wonder whether he might. I mean, the interesting thing for me is I like Declan Rice as a fullback option. You could then play Anderson and Mainoo as, which will give you a much more steady midfield. And you can play Bellingham in a free role. He won't do that, but I'm just saying there are options. And you, until you play someone any good, you don't know how he's going to set up.
- [09:06]
E
You could also play Rodgers and Bellingham as two going forward against the low blocks. Yeah, but not the.
- [09:12]
B
You're not gonna do that. You're not gonna do that now because
- [09:14]
D
it's insane that we're trying to work out who's in the starting 11 now.
- [09:17]
B
Well, we are, but Thomas Tuchel knows He's starting 11.
- [09:19]
D
Does he?
- [09:20]
B
Well, he has done. He's changed it around a bit, but they all do that in tournaments.
- [09:24]
D
That's the name of tournament football, innit? That's five right backs.
- [09:29]
F
Are we really talking about putting Rice right back, though? Come on. I know he did well when he.
- [09:34]
B
Rice back. That's his name, almost.
- [09:36]
F
No, no, we can't be happ. Declan Rice.
- [09:39]
D
Right?
- [09:39]
F
But it's.
- [09:40]
B
It's.
- [09:40]
F
It's absolute. It worked today. I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with. After the game, he said he didn't want to play there. It works because he's got the energy and for the goal, that underlapping run, he has got that quality. But you miss his engine in the center midfield against Mexico. You need him in that. In that central area. I personally would go, maybe Spence again, but tell him just you're not going forward. Or I would play Konza right back. Play Stones and play Gehe. I think England against Mexico, even though Brad made a really good point, I think Mexico are going to come out the blocks. It's going to be at the Azteca. They're going to be on the front foot, all those sort of things. But England are not good enough to go forward with both fullbacks and get back in. That's what I've learned from today's game. I think they need more stability at the back and they need protection. The back line needs.
- [10:34]
B
I agree with that. I think they need a little bit more protection in front of them and I think that will come as they grow into the tournament. You mentioned Spence there. I mean, it seemed like Thomas Tucker was constantly berating him from the sidelines. You could see it most of the time. It reminded me a little bit. Did you ever have that, Joe, when a manager on the sideline giving you an Ebola? You must have done maybe with Joe.
- [11:01]
C
With Mourinho. We used to play a system at Chelsea where, like, you play a left winger and a right winger, but we were allowed to swap. So, you know, it was Robin, Duff, me, Wright, Phillips. But when Jose was at it and he was screaming like, you'd be just going fucking stand on the other side. Yeah, got you. And he'd be fucking screaming.
- [11:19]
D
What is he saying, though?
- [11:20]
C
When he. I don't know to this day, I just go, yeah, I just kept my thumbs up.
- [11:26]
B
I had one When I was, the one thing I used to hate was managers screaming from the touchdowns. I think I know my job better than they know how to play my job. And they talk a great game, but they don't know how hard it is. I remember one game, I can't remember where we were playing, but the pitch was crap, it was bouncing all over the place. Bobby Robson was the manager and I had a similar thing with Terry Venables as well and I felt bad afterwards but you know, he's got the ball, got knocked in, it's like knocked in at the speed of time. He's bounced off his pit at my chest, bounced off. I've got a big center hole smashing me in the back. And Bobby shout, Gary, hold it up, hold it up. And I snapped and I went, you fucking try holding it up.
- [12:10]
C
I can't believe you said it to Bobby Robson.
- [12:11]
B
I know, I felt really bad after because Bobby's so lovely. But it's like, I mean, this episode
- [12:18]
A
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- [13:13]
B
I mean Jordan Pickford, I know you're a fan because we did something before the start of the tournament and you picked out who you thought might get the Golden Glove and you said Jordan Pickford probably made a mistake in the first goal today. Unlike him, I would say.
- [13:28]
E
But Jordan Pickford, when he first came on the scene, wasn't my favorite in the last four or five years. He's really won me over. Yeah, I think he's been brilliant. Unfortunately today it was a goalkeeping mistake and he'll know that as well. I think defensively center back got sucked in, right back gets pulled over. There's a lot that was wrong with it. But if you look at it technically from a goalkeeper, he just took too high of a jump, his feet weren't set, and then he hit it with pace. And pace will beat you anywhere when your feet aren't set. I've made the mistake before. And when you win, you're relieved. You make the mistake and you lose. You're devastated. The first goal in the tournament. I think he could have saved. I'm not so sure he should have saved, but he's had a couple of other nervy moments. At Ghana game. I think he got fortunate. He was a little hesitant. So this isn't really the Jordan Pickford that I've seen play with Everett in the last two or three years and with England, because Everett's been under a lot of pressure and Jordan Pickford's been the one that's been consistently making the saves at the end.
- [14:30]
B
We all make mistakes, but when goalkeepers do it.
- [14:32]
E
Yeah, but this is starting. I mean, it's. Three of the four games have been a little bit. There's been a moment in each of them.
- [14:39]
B
Rob, I want to ask you because you're an Arsenal fan.
- [14:41]
D
Yes.
- [14:42]
B
It's amazing how many Arsenal fans are coming out now out the woodworks. You've got so many in this show.
- [14:47]
E
What, Palace?
- [14:49]
D
Well, I should be palace, really. They're my local club. But I love Dion Wright. And then we got sky and watched the football and watched. I fell in love with you and Wright.
- [14:56]
E
You just love Crystal Palace.
- [14:57]
D
I do like him as well, but you can't really move back. They won't let you do that.
- [15:00]
B
You ask about Saka because he's kind of had a few injuries this season. Obviously they're carrying him a little bit. That's a concern, isn't it?
- [15:08]
D
Yeah. I mean, he looked great when he came on, but hopefully if they're just using him for that impact towards the end. But, like, all season, he's looked like he's been carrying something and he's dragged it out through the World Cup. But he gives us something a bit different, obviously, you know, like Gordon Rashford and Madueke will just get down the wing. They want to get across him. But you can cut in and play little balls which can open him up. I thought he played well when he came on Sakharov.
- [15:27]
E
It was a good.
- [15:28]
D
Gordon was great as well.
- [15:29]
B
Do you think he's. It's a tactical thing or do you think he's genuinely doing it? Do you think he likes Madwecke because he. He bombs a little bit or I
- [15:37]
C
think he likes Madawaki a touch more than Saka, and I think that's obviously Thomas Tuchel is watching training. He's watching every minute of every game. I agree. I think Saka looks like he's not a Sakura of a year ago, 18 months ago, but he's so good and he's done so well.
- [15:52]
B
And Philip, why do you think he perhaps prefers Madueke?
- [15:56]
C
I think Madawa Key has got a little bit more power in his running and he'll run behind Harry Kane. I think it's either or for me. He'll go with whoever. And at the moment, I think he thinks Madueke is in a little bit more form than Saka, but for sure he's going to play one and the other one's going to come on at 60 minutes. And that's just.
- [16:16]
D
Sackaway just cuts in as well. Madouacki gets and tried to cross, but
- [16:19]
C
Madawaki's done all right. He's got a lot of stick, but he's got crosses in.
- [16:22]
E
I thought Madawaki was better when they brought him on the left against Ghana. He actually went by and got a couple of rocks.
- [16:28]
C
I'm really pleased for Anthony Gordon today, coming on, because I thought in the first two games it's his big chance and he fluffed his lines a little bit, so he needed that game.
- [16:37]
B
Two assists.
- [16:38]
D
Yeah.
- [16:38]
C
And the first time I thought he looked nervous. And one of the things I like about Anthony Gordon is he plays with his personality. And I thought. And I thought he'd go to the World cup because he's a scout, so he's a bit of a lad. I thought he'd go and go, now give me the ball. I'm signed for Barcelona. But he actually looked nervous, so I think today we've done the world of good. And he'll go and get that swagger back. It's just, who do you start, him or Marcus?
- [17:02]
B
You're not happy with the balance, Mike. And I understand that. I understand that. I tend to try and watch a match as though I'm not an England fan, which is impossible because I am. But I try and look at it as though I was watching another side playing against someone. And I looked at that game today and I think if I'd have been watching France or not France, because France are exceptional, but Brazil or someone like that, I'd go, it's coming, the goal's coming, the goal's coming. But I understand your points. I totally get it. And I think we do look vulnerable to the counter attacks, etc. What would you do against Mexico differently than Tuchel's doing now?
- [17:39]
F
I'd play a low block. I'd play a low block. I swear. I swear. Mexico were a good team. I know Mora, who we discussed earlier on when we was doing the shows, he's doing really well.
- [17:53]
B
17 years old. Michael.
- [17:55]
F
That's how you pronounce it. Sorry.
- [17:57]
B
17 years old. He was absolutely superb. Gilberto Mora, wasn't he?
- [18:03]
F
Well, if you listen to me, I did give him. I give his age and all that. I give the stats all beforehand, but he wasn't listening to this for the show.
- [18:09]
B
Mike. I'm always listening.
- [18:10]
F
You want to jump on a bandwagon like everyone else, crying out like you're
- [18:13]
B
getting on my nerves now you're off.
- [18:16]
D
Bye.
- [18:16]
C
Bye.
- [18:17]
B
Oh, the buttons. Oh, it is working. That's good.
- [18:19]
E
You know, Mexico.
- [18:21]
B
So I'm gonna bring him back because I feel bad because it's so.
- [18:24]
E
I'm going to bring him back when Mexico plays.
- [18:25]
B
Finish your point, Micah, and then we'll come to you. Brad.
- [18:29]
F
No, I mean, I wouldn't go low block. I just feel as though we were searching for the right formula to break team down. I think Brad's totally right in terms of the way Mexico are going to set up. They're going to come out a lot more. So there are going to be spaces for England to exploit. That's a fact. However, I don't trust us enough defensively. I feel as though, because we're expecting Bellingham to make them runs forward and Rice has always got the energy where he wants to get involved. I don't think the balance of the midfield is right. I think all three of our midfielders at best positions are number eight. So they're all trying to go. They're all trying to chase the ball when they lose it, which leaving massive gaps to a inexperienced backline with a Konza age, Spence and O'Reilly. So I would. I would go back to basics defensively and just go at the right times in terms of one fullback at a time and then the other fullback. It was a bit too all over the place. I would want my wingers. Gordon, if it's Gordon, if it's Rashford, it's Saka or Madweke to have the confidence to take someone on and then wait for the support later. I feel as though today it was. He's going to go there, we're going to try break down Dia Congo and everything's just all over the place. I think we need a Little bit more structure to play against Mexico. That's how we'll get a block.
- [20:07]
B
Thanks, Mike. I'll do a low block.
- [20:09]
D
Not a 1am for the UK audience. Low block, 1am to 1am you need to do a low block against Mexico.
- [20:16]
E
Mexico is so average.
- [20:18]
D
If we lose.
- [20:20]
B
Hang on, Hang on a minute. She's a neutral voice here.
- [20:23]
E
Mexico is so average. I've played against them for years. I know what they do because they're playing in altitude. They look faster than everybody if they're outside of Mexico. I know, I know they're in Mexico, but there's something to this. They're an average team. Below average, actually. They are so beatable and their fans get on them. If England go there, I don't care whether they play a low block, a high block, anything. They score first, just get through the first 15 to 20 minutes and they will win the game.
- [20:54]
B
Low block for 20 minutes.
- [20:56]
E
No, anything, just whatever. Just don't concede the first goal. What they try to do is suffocate you so you can't get your second breath. And then they try to press, and they try to press. Just look at their games that they've played. They've created five chances in each of the games, but the players are. Are dead after 20 minutes because they're always fighting this uphill battle. The altitude's no joke. The heat is no joke. It's hard. But England are so much better than Mexico, and it would be.
- [21:25]
B
Brad, you're coming back in space.
- [21:28]
E
No, it would be a complete shame if they were knocked out because of altitude.
- [21:33]
B
Brad, I want to ask you about the U.S. i mean, they've gone through comfortable victory. Baligan got set. I wanna talk to that first. I mean, I thought. I felt for him badly. He got the red card. He looked like all he was trying to do was put his foot on the floor. And it's another terrible VAR intervention.
- [21:53]
E
I think the referees have had a disaster recently. Balogun, if you know him, he's. First of all, he's not nasty. He doesn't. He doesn't go, no. And they're winning the game. They're winning the game. They're winning the game. And he just did exactly as you said. He just put his foot down and he didn't even know the player's ankle was there. Unfortunate. And I'm sure it didn't feel nice, but no sending off. But they've gotten. And it's VAR has gotten. I think.
- [22:21]
B
You know what it is. Over the last couple days, I Think over the first week or two of the tournament, VAR has stayed out of things largely, and I think we've all been really encouraged by that. But you know what they're like, they sit in their little room there and suddenly they're getting a bit bo and they think they want to make a difference. It's almost like a natural human reaction. And slow motions. We need to ban super slow motions for the VARs because it makes everything. You can read anything into it. It was the same thing in the other game, the penalty, which we'll come to in a bit. But I thought again, super slow motions. When you just actually just. There's an impact. I hate it.
- [23:01]
E
Paraguay, Germany.
- [23:02]
B
Yeah, the golden Paraguay Germany we talked about.
- [23:04]
E
The guy fell over. He tried to con the ref initially.
- [23:08]
D
I feel like refs, though, want to have an impact on the game. You know, to be a ref, you've got to want attention. It's like being a politician.
- [23:13]
B
Well, they got the names on their backs.
- [23:15]
D
They've got the names on the back, they've got ref cam. I think that's why they were quite at the start they felt seen. They've got their name on the back, got ref cam and now they're like, no, actually I don't have an impact.
- [23:23]
E
The best ones don't.
- [23:24]
D
I know, but then, you know.
- [23:25]
E
But you don't always get the best one.
- [23:27]
C
Brad. America, Right? So I'm walking around here and Americans are convinced you can win it.
- [23:33]
E
No.
- [23:34]
C
Where do you think, as a proper football man, what's par for the course for America?
- [23:38]
E
Okay, so we're playing Belgium next, right? Yep.
- [23:41]
B
That's winnable.
- [23:43]
E
It is winnable if teams have pace against us. So you saw Bosnia largely made Christian Pulisic non existent today, which he looked really quick against Paraguay when two players from Belgium that worry me if they play are Doku and Luka Bacchio. If they play, they. Cause did they beat us 5 2. 52 friendly. Just in a friendly. And those players just ran and ran and ran. And what it does is it negates Freeman's pace, Robinson's pace, Dess pace and Pulisic's pace. And if you kill that pace, then we have a hard. We have a hard time creating it.
- [24:21]
C
But what's par for the course for a better. Because every country's got par.
- [24:25]
E
No. Right now. I mean, for me, anything above this
- [24:28]
B
would be good, wouldn't it?
- [24:29]
E
Yeah. I wanted to get out of the group and I wanted to finish first or second for a favorable draw and win a Knockout. Correct. And we've done that and now like it's if we lose to Belgium and we play well, then that's where we are. If we beat them, then the likelihood was play Spain and we probably get knocked out there. But as long as we give a great account of ourselves, which we will. Mauricio Pochettino. It's not like we're going to go to play Belgium or Spain and we're going to lose six nil. That's not going to happen.
- [24:59]
D
They've not really got into it. I was in Atlanta filming a couple of weeks ago. Host city. No one really cared like the main public. Nick's winning the championships was a much bigger thing.
- [25:10]
E
It was the worst day of my life stuck in that parade.
- [25:12]
F
I just wanted to ask Brad, out of all the American players, who do you think has got the most ability? I know a lot of people talk about pulisic Captain America, but you've got some good players in that squad now. Who's the best for you?
- [25:25]
E
Always for me. I coached a lot of these guys with the under 19 national team. Weston McKinney is the guy really when he's on it. He enjoys both sides of life and he's a great kid, he's a great character.
- [25:40]
C
Love him already.
- [25:40]
D
Great man.
- [25:41]
E
And he is. But when he's on it, which he is right now, you can tell with his fitness he's our most influential player off the field. Is a captain type player. Tyler Adams is. But Wes with the ability and he's really versatile. He can play, as you've seen with Juventus.
- [26:01]
C
He's.
- [26:01]
E
He's pretty much played every position except goalkeeper, but he's the guy. Micah.
- [26:06]
B
That's it for this episode of the Rest Is Football. We'll be back in a few days.
- [26:11]
A
England are on the march.
- [26:18]
B
This is an urgent appeal from the Disasters Emergency Committee. Two devastating earthquakes have hit Venezuela resulting in widespread destruction. Thousands have been killed and injured and survivors desperately need food, water, shelter and medical care. Go to dec.org.uk to donate or text DEC to 70150 to give £10 texts costs your donation plus standard network rate. See website for T's and C's.
- [26:45]
D
Thank you.