Terrible Germany crash out as Brazil fight back

Summary

The Rest Is Football

Episode: Terrible Germany Crash Out as Brazil Fight Back

Date: June 30, 2026
Hosts: Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Micah Richards
Guests: Millie Bright, Emma Hayes, Joe Cole

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Overview

This action-packed episode dives into a dramatic day of World Cup knockout football: Germany stunningly crash out to Paraguay on penalties, Brazil stage a comeback against Japan, and the shifting dynamics of world football are up for passionate debate. The team brings together classic banter, coaching insight, and strong opinions, joined by new USWNT coach Emma Hayes, Lioness Millie Bright, and ex-Chelsea and England player Joe Cole.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter and Chelsea Connections

• The episode begins with a lighthearted exchange about Chelsea ties and working relationships past and present, with Millie Bright and Emma Hayes reminiscing about their time together.
• Millie praises Emma Hayes:

  "She's more than a manager...to play under Em was probably the best years of my career, to be honest." — Millie Bright [02:12]

• Conversation about the player/manager dynamic continuing even after careers move on.

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Germany’s Shocking Exit to Paraguay

[05:00–15:30]

• Set-up: Germany, favorites to progress, are knocked out by Paraguay after a 1–1 draw and a dramatic penalty shootout. Alan and Micah offer reactions live from their respective locations.

• Alan’s Assessment:

  "That first half was as bad as a performance I've seen for a long, long time. They were weak, there was no energy, and every single one of them were hopeless...they deserved to go out, actually." — Alan Shearer [05:37]

• Micah on Germany’s Problems:

  • Points out that on paper, Germany have quality (Musiala, Wirtz, Havertz, Rudiger, Kimmich), but:

    “They don’t play as a team. It’s really strange to see...very reminiscent of England—the quality, but play too slow, square pegs in round holes.” — Micah Richards [07:03]

  • Notes controversy over the recall of veteran keeper Neuer.
  • Compares the disjointed squad to England’s own challenges with talented individuals.

• VAR Controversy:

  • Debate around a disallowed goal for Germany after minimal keeper contact was judged as a foul by VAR.

    “Never a foul. Not for me, Gary...the keeper’s conned him...I thought it was a really poor decision.” — Alan Shearer [09:30]

  • Micah agrees and laments that it's a problem seen throughout the tournament.

• More on German Decline:

  • Alan questions the idea that the talent is truly there:

    "It’s all right saying they’ve got the quality, but the quality wasn’t there...when it really mattered, the quality wasn't there at all." — Alan Shearer [11:44]

  • Gary Lineker lobs the famous "worst German team I’ve seen" line, noting even German journalists referenced it.

• Paraguay's Defensive Masterclass:

  • Alan:

    "It was a lesson in how to defend, be tight and compact...as much as it was a poor game, it was a great story at the end for Paraguay." [12:49]

  • Praises the heroics of Paraguayan keeper Orlando Gill.
  • Alan and the group agree the story is as much about Paraguay’s guts as German failings.

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The Fallout for Germany and Future Speculation

[13:27–15:30]

• Coaching Hot Seat:
  • Gary predicts Nagelsmann may face the sack, even floating the idea of Jurgen Klopp taking over (despite his recent contract).
  • Micah:

    “In Germany...the feeling if they lose today, that’s probably Nagelsmann done.” [14:09]

  • Concerns over the direction of German football and whether the “old reliables” are finished.
  • Micah links low-block defending and Paraguay’s win to possible headaches for England against similar opposition (DR Congo).

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Wider Tournament Trends and Underdog Spirit

[16:50–19:34]

• Millie Bright’s Perspective:

  "Some of the teams are getting overlooked and I think it's just expected that the top teams are just automatically going to win...the rest of the world have developed, got better." [17:02]

• Joe Cole urges attention to the fight and pride of non-European teams (“CONCACAF, CONMEBOL sides will fight to the death.” [17:35])
• Emma Hayes on South American aggression and how European arrogance still sees upsets:

  "South American players are much better. My favourite players to play with and I hated playing against them...they're aggressive." [18:11]

• Anticipation builds over Paraguay’s massive challenge against likely next-opponent France—and how France’s abundance of attacking riches could be both a blessing and a headache for Deschamps.

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Japan vs. Brazil: Culture, Coaching, and Comebacks

[19:34–24:44]

• Japan’s Philosophy Questioned:

  • Joe Cole wonders why Japan, despite technical prowess and a “hundred year manifesto,” revert to a defensive, risk-averse approach when ahead.
  • Emma Hayes points to humility in Japanese culture:

    “Sometimes the best teams have a bit of swagger about them. If they would have been a bit braver today...” [20:47]

  • Gary reflects that Japan look best when forced to attack.

• Brazil’s Tactical Edge and Ancelotti’s Class:

  • Ancelotti’s in-game changes turn things around for Brazil.
  • Millie praises Brazil’s “edge and grit,” embracing the need for a ‘dirty’, gritty side to win tournaments.
  • Anecdote from Emma Hayes about Ancelotti’s warmth:

    “He just got the bottle of limoncello out, started feeding me shots...by the end of the night, we're like best friends.” — Emma Hayes [22:28]

  • Praise for Ancelotti’s humility and composure.
  • Emma confirms she’s still tipping Brazil as her favorites for the tournament.

• Hydration Breaks as Manager’s Timeout

  • Group discusses how new hydration and advert breaks let coaches intervene and shift momentum.
  • Joe:

    “It’s the coach’s break...opportunity for two or three clips to be able to say—would you like that in the world?” [23:24]

  • Hosts debate if it helps or hinders fans, but acknowledge overall improvements to VAR speed and refereeing, letting play flow more this World Cup.

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The Pressure of Expectations and Media Critique

[24:48–25:39]

• Millie reflects on the harshness of media and fan expectations:

  "When we won Euros 2022...we only won 1-0...straight away you’re in the media: ‘are you happy with the performance?’...It’s about winning!" [25:12]

• Gary echoes that every country expects easy wins, but reality is far tougher at World Cups.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Someone once said football is a simple game...at the end the Germans always win. What a fucking idiot." — Gary Lineker, opening [01:04]
• “Managers get older. Players stay the same age.” — Emma Hayes [03:09]
• “Never a foul. Not for me, Gary.” — Alan Shearer on the controversial VAR call [09:30]
• “Paraguay...a great story. They worked incredibly hard, they stuck together, they had to defend for their lives at times.” — Alan Shearer [12:49]
• “If you don’t work as a team, you’re not going to win.” — Millie Bright [17:02]
• “Sometimes the best teams have got a little bit of swagger about them.” — Emma Hayes [20:47]
• “He just got the bottle of limoncello out, started feeding me shots...by the end of the night, we’re like best friends.” — Emma Hayes on Ancelotti [22:28]
• “The refs have let the game go a bit. That’s been the best part of this World Cup and VAR have not got involved.” — Gary Lineker [24:37]

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Timestamps — Important Segments

• [05:00–15:30]: Deep dive into Germany’s shock exit, performance analysis, VAR controversy, and coaching speculation.
• [16:50–19:34]: Discussion on tournament underdogs, changing world football landscape, and South American fighting spirit.
• [19:34–24:44]: Debrief of Japan vs Brazil, national football cultures, praise for Ancelotti, and effects of new tournament rules.
• [24:48–25:39]: Media pressure and the reality of World Cup expectations.

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Summary Takeaways

• Germany’s World Cup malaise deepens after being out-fought by Paraguay—talent on paper counts for little if not matched by teamwork and energy.
• Tournament “underdogs” are fast catching up, with tactical discipline and spirit the equal of technical ability—no team is safe.
• Brazil once again demonstrate resilience and a tactical edge, with Ancelotti’s class shining through both on and off the pitch.
• The expanded use of hydration breaks and looser refereeing are already shaping how games pan out in this World Cup.
• The media and fans’ expectations remain sky-high—but modern tournaments are relentless, and upsets are increasingly the norm.

For all the analysis, stories, and laughs (and a few jabs at German football!), this episode of The Rest Is Football is a classic for fans tracking the twists and turns of World Cup 2026.

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Transcript

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[Host (Gary Lineker)]

Hello, and welcome to the Rest Is Football. The knockout stage is off and running. Lots of entertainment, penalty shootouts, much to talk about with Alan and Micah. Also in the studio tonight, Millie Bright lioness and Emma Hayes. Now the US Coach, of course, and Joe Cole.

[Host (Gaz)]

And don't forget, if you prefer to.

[Host (Gary Lineker)]

To watch the show, you can get it on Netflix every day.

[Host (Gaz)]

Someone once said football is a simple game. 22 players chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win. What a fucking idiot. Welcome to the Rest Is Football. And what a day of football it's been. We'll get into that Germany result and all of today's games in a moment. But first, Millie, Emma, welcome to the show. Lovely to have you here. You too, of course, Jo. You guys all know each other so well.

[Joe Cole]

Up the Chelsea.

[Emma Hayes]

Chelsea crew.

[Joe Cole]

Up the Chelsea. We're together and safety in numbers.

[Host (Gaz)]

But you know, even further back, I

[Emma Hayes]

know Emma from back in the day. We're from the same part of London. Her dad was a brilliant football man. Looked after all the young, the young kids in the area, getting them out of trouble, getting them playing football. And he did a really, really good job for all my mates and me.

[Host (Gaz)]

He got you out of trouble, did he?

[Emma Hayes]

Got me out of trouble. Not. Not the only person. I need a few people to help me with that. Keeping me out of trouble.

[Host (Gaz)]

And you would have played for Emma for about 10 years?

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, just a short period.

[Joe Cole]

A few times. Yeah. She got me out of trouble a few times. I think it's the other way around.

[Alan]

Really?

[Joe Cole]

Yeah.

[Host (Gaz)]

You spill the tea later on. What'd she like to play for? Demanding.

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, of course. But I feel like you have to be to. To be the caliber that she's at as a, as a coach. I've always said. I said it when I first. First senior, didn't I? Finally my life coach is back. She's more than a manager, but yeah, to play under M was probably the best years of my career, to be honest.

[Emma Hayes]

Millie, is it, you know, like when you meet your manager, so you have a long period of time, a manager and they leave and also they're not your manager anymore. Even now When I meet my old managers, I'm like, gaffer, boss. It's hard, isn't it?

[Millie Bright]

It is. And I still feel like I'm a player. I think I always will. That's literally my whole career. Chelsea is my career.

[Host (Gaz)]

Can I ask a really dumb question? Do you call Emma boss or gaffer, like he said, or just. Was it always Emma?

[Millie Bright]

Not as cringy as that.

[Host (Gaz)]

We gotta move on.

[Emma Hayes]

It's got these with manager whenever you meet them, Gaz.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, I know.

[Emma Hayes]

Because they've all got egos, haven't they?

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, right.

[Emma Hayes]

I know.

[Joe Cole]

You meet them all right.

[Emma Hayes]

He might be 10 years after you've played the movie. All right, gaffer. Yeah, they feel that.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, it's a bit.

[Emma Hayes]

Sorry.

[Host (Gaz)]

You know what?

[Joe Cole]

Now, to be honest with you, you know, you might see it like that. We just see a lot of love for our players and being in your lives. We've watched you as young people. I always say this. Managers, we get older, players stay the same age.

[Host (Gaz)]

I wish that were true.

[Emma Hayes]

Yeah.

[Millie Bright]

Yeah.

[Joe Cole]

Well, at least in terms of the turnovers of them, they're always Emma, always young.

[Host (Gaz)]

Millie is a player.

[Joe Cole]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I mean, honestly, I've been through many experiences with Mill. We just had the ability to gut things out together. Even in moments where we couldn't even speak to each other. It was unspoken, our ability to be able to grind through games.

[Host (Gaz)]

What I didn't know about. I didn't realise you were a Spurs fan.

[Joe Cole]

Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm from a household of spurs and Chelsea, so it was always a split loyalty thing. Not for me. And there I was in 1991 in that beautiful Wembley Stadium with my Tottenham tracksuit on, stood behind the Gazza free kick.

[Host (Gaz)]

Oh, the semi final of the FA cup semi final.

[Joe Cole]

Thank you for filling that in. And it roofed in the top corner and I had my jacket tied around my tracksuit bottoms and I was like, yes. And that was it. Screamed at me, Arsenal fans, get her out of here now. I was whisked up the stairs, taken out of the section. I managed to come back round and, yes, I did see the finale of the game.

[Host (Gaz)]

Well, I was going to say, I hope you saw the two important goals

[Joe Cole]

and that contribution at the end. So thank you very much for those memories and getting a little kick in at Wembley from the Gooners.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, one of the biggest shocks of the tournament so far was Paraguay sending Germany home on penalties after a 11 draw. Alan and Micah both worked on the match and I caught up with Them straight after full time. Alan. Micah, great to see you in different parts of the world. Alan, you're in Boston because you were at the game earlier on where German went out against Paraguay. You were doing the game for the BBC in Salford. Micah, now I can see you back in your garage. Shall we call it? Well, I don't think any of us thought Germany were going to be a real threat in this tournament, but at the same time, Alan, I didn't think they'd go out in this round.

[Alan]

Yeah, I watched them or did the game against Ecuador and because there was no jeopardy for them, they'd already won the group, I was willing to give them a bit of a free passed, but I wasn't that impressed with their performance in that game. But I was expecting a little bit more this evening because you're now into the knockout rounds. But I have to tell you that that first half was as bad as a performance I've seen for a long, long time. They were weak, there was no energy and every single one of them were hopeless. And I was expecting a lot more. After the break. They changed it a little bit. They then started in the second half to put balls into the box very, very early, which sort of helped them. They got the goal through that with Wirtz, the cross and Havertz getting in front of the defender. And I was thought, okay, they're going to go on and win the game. But no, I wasn't impressed with them at all. And I thought they were really, really poor and they deserved to go out, actually.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, Micah, that's now three tournaments on the trot, World cup tournaments where they've not made it into the round of 16. What's gone wrong with German football?

[Micah]

To be honest, I don't have the actual answer because if you look at the players, when you've got someone like Musiala, when you've got Wirtz, when you've got Havertz, who I said is a big game player, when you've got players like Rudiger and Tara at the back, you think they're solid enough. Kimmich as well, right back and play midfield, you're looking at it and thinking they should be doing a lot more. I think the decision to bring back Neuer has not gone down well in Germany. He sort of passed his best and I don't want to blame one person for, you know, a bad performance, but it didn't go down well in Germany. And then he had Nagelsmann getting all the pressure. He doesn't seem to know how to deal with it. And yeah, if you look at the players, they've got enough quality, but they don't play as a team. It's really strange to see. And they're very reminiscent of England and the way England play in terms of they've got all this quality, but they play a little bit too slow, sort of square pegs in round holes. And you're watching them. And when the result went up full time after the penalty shootout, I was in disbelief as what I was watching. You're expecting these players to be able to break down Paraguay. Paraguay are a good side in terms of defending and have that really good spirit, but with the quality that Germany had on show, they should be doing a lot better than they did.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, I think. I mean, USA beat them 4:1 in the opening game, so I don't think any of us really saw this coming. Slight difference of opinion. I don't think they've got the quality across their squad that England have got at present or anywhere like the quality that Germany have had in the past. In fact, I don't know whether you know this, but in the press conference yesterday, Kai Havertz, one of the journalists, did what English journalists do. They confronted him and said that, oh, by the way, did you know Gary Lineker has said that this is the worst. This is the worst German team he's ever seen. I think actually they probably agree now, but he did that. And I didn't actually say Germany was Scheisser. But what I will say, Alan, I think they were very hard done to in terms of VAR overturn for the tar goal. I mean, that was not a foul on Gil, was it?

[Alan]

Orlando Gill, never a foul. Not for me, Gary. I thought it was a really poor decision. The ref hadn't given it and he's been asked to go to the Var. And I thought, because we've seen it a few times in this tournament, that when they've gone to the screen, they've actually stuck to their original decision and said, no, I'm happy with my decision. And I was pretty confident that once he'd seen that on the screen, then I would have thought he would have gone, no, there wasn't enough contact to make the keeper go down. I mean, the keeper's condom, there's no doubt about it. He's felt the touch and he's thought, I'm in trouble here, I better go down. And he's bought the foul. And I mean, it's worked for them. Absolutely, but they were robbed. I thought it was A really poor decision.

[Micah]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. And when I talked about Germany being reminiscent of England, I mean, in terms of the way they play, I believe England have got better players. Yeah, for sure. But in terms of the way they move the ball, it's all a little bit too slow. You're sort of relying on a set piece that it should have been a goal from Tar. I totally agree on that. Not enough contact on the goalkeeper for me. But Germany do have quality players, Gaz. They really do. Maybe not as good as England, but if you go through their starting 11, Brown's as good as anyone. Young left back, he's really good. Obviously, Rudiger, what he's done in the game, really good experience. Tah's gone to Bayern Munich being really successful. He's been one of the best defenders in the German league. And then you've got Kimmich, who I actually want him to play in centre mid rather than right back. You've got two exciting young players in Wirtz and Musiala in there. Havertz on always scores a goal. Sane let me down. By his standards, I don't think we've seen the same Sane since City days, really. I mean, he was electric. But I was a little bit disappointed in what they showed on the night and not just the night, throughout the tournament.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, Alan was shaking his head throughout most of that.

[Alan]

Yeah, I don't agree. I think they've got the quality in names and on paper, but they just didn't deliver. And you look at Sane not a great season. Undav they had to bring in to try and give them some oomph in and around the penalty area. Wirtz has had a terrible season at Liverpool. He hasn't performed again in this World Cup. So it's all right seeing they've got the quality, but the quality wasn't there. We've seen them beat, put seven past Curacao. Well, that's all right. But when it really mattered, the quality wasn't there at all.

[Host (Gaz)]

I mean, it's a German team that's actually finally lost a World cup penalty shootout. I mean, wow, what a shootout it was. I mean, I mean, we've said many times, particularly in this World cup where there's so many games, I think they should go straight to penalties at the end of normal time because the players are going to be exhausted enough by the end of this anyway, particularly in the heat. I imagine it was really hot there in Boston, if it's anything like it is in New York today. And it's only up the road. But it was quite the penalty shootout. But they probably should have gone straight to it and only perhaps have extra time for the final. That's my view.

[Alan]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I think it was a really, really poor game in terms of standards, but I mean, it was a lesson in how to defend, how to be tight and compact, get everyone around the ball. But as much as it was a poor game, it was a great story at the end for Paraguay because they deserved it. They worked incredibly hard, they stuck together, they had to defend for their lives at, at times. And I mean, it was an amazing story. They. It was. I mean, I, I thought they were going to blow it because of the two penalties that they'd missed. I'm thinking, no, they can't miss three on the spin. But then, then the man of the match put the penalty in and that was a great story in itself.

[Host (Gaz)]

And, and the goalkeeper was, was pretty heroic as well. Orlando Gill. It was a, you know, very exciting finale, particularly for Paraguay. But Nagelsmann, I suspect, will be under severe pressure now. I wouldn't be at all surprised. I've got a little feeling that we might see Jurgen Klopp as the next. I don't know, it's just a hunch.

[Alan]

Hasn't he just signed a new contract, has he?

[Host (Gaz)]

Alright, maybe it's a bad hunch then.

[Micah]

Yeah, but so did Steve Clark, didn't he?

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So contracts don't mean that much, do they? I think in Germany, having worked with Thomas Hetzelsberger tonight and the feeling.

[Host (Gaz)]

I thought he was very good, by the way. Micah. I thought he was very good. Thomas.

[Micah]

Yes, I thought it was excellent. Give some really good insight. And he was saying, if they lose today, that's probably Nagelsmann done, you know, which is going to be interesting to see. I'm really worried where German sort of football is going from here. You could always rely on the Germans to be strong, to work hard, to have quality, and you just didn't see enough of that tonight. But I think, I think you've got to look at the overall context though. We've seen in this competition it is very hard to break down a low block, isn't it? As much as we're criticizing Germany, we have to give Paraguay a lot of credit for the way they perform, especially when you don't have the balls for large parts of the game and you've got to work and you've got to go up and back and you've got to Be aggressive and organized. Yes, they got a bit of luck with a goal that should have been, but they fully deserve it and that not to throw it to England, but that worries me now going into Dr. Congo on Wednesday because teams are getting results playing that way. England certainly need, you know, an early goal in that game.

[Host (Gaz)]

Okay, thanks very much, Micah. Thanks, Alan. We'll let you both go now. Their reward, Paraguay's reward is a next round tie against either France or Sweden. I suspect it might be France, which might be a bit tough. I think France might work a way of beating low blocks. Cheers, guys.

[Host (Gary Lineker)]

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[Host (Gaz)]

Excellent victory for Paraguay. Slightly fortuitous, I think with one or two decisions, but regardless of that, I thought they defended to organise. I mean, you know what it's like to have to defend at times. I mean, very impressive, wasn't it?

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, definitely. I think that's been one of the things of the tournament, to be honest. I think for me, I think some of the teams are getting overlooked and I think it's just expected that the top teams are just automatically going to win. And I don't think that's the case. And I think that's a lesson. I think it's levelled up a bit, 100%. And I think a lot of people see the top teams and they'll say, oh, Germany underperform. But is it that or is it that the rest of the world have developed, got better and I think they fully deserve the win, to be honest, the way they worked as a collective. And that's the thing, and I've learned this under Emma. You can have amazing individuals if you don't work as a Team, you don't work as a unit. You're not going to win.

[Joe Cole]

Do you know what coaching in this hemisphere, there's concacaf, which is largely the Caribbean nations, then Comnable, which is Latin American nations playing against them. I think sometimes we have like a Eurocentric action attitude towards football. Like the top nations there and having competed against the likes of Paraguay, Brazil, these nations will fight to the death. It's exceptional.

[Host (Gaz)]

Paraguay, probably France. We expect France to beat Sweden. I mean, they've got some firepower. Tough, but I mean, brilliant effort from Paraguay.

[Emma Hayes]

Yeah, brilliant effort from Paraguay. I mean, I've played against South American players. South American players are much better. My favorite players to play with and I hated playing against them because. Because of that same redo. They're aggressive, so it's surprising that us Europeans don't, you know, we. Sometimes I'm going to turn up and turn them over, but I think the French will be too much from Gaz.

[Alan]

I think.

[Emma Hayes]

I think the only, the only problem I get, I think the French, if the first time they play, say, for instance, they. I don't think they're gonna get massively tested, massively tested until they play against a Spain or. Or something like that. And I wonder whether Deschamps, because he's got so many options in the front line, I think if he puts another midfielder in, I think they'll be more suited. But they've got so many options. How can you leave out Douay Barcolo, Mbappe, Dembele, Cherky? You've got to really leave two at a.

[Joe Cole]

Do you think when they're playing against a team that is more than happy to be without the ball and sit low and have a block of five, do you think that it, much like it did in Senegal in that first 45 minutes, do you think that France has that way of breaking a team down if they don't have the transition spaces?

[Emma Hayes]

Well, they got Cherokee, haven't they, who I think is the best in the country in the world.

[Joe Cole]

Better than Guimarus because I think he's. He's up there right now for Brazil.

[Emma Hayes]

Yeah, listen, I think they'll beat Paraguay, but you've got to take your out to the Paraguayans for beating the Germans. And I'm just happy the Germans are out. It's all right to. To say that, Kaz.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah, they gotta beat Sweden first. The first big game today was Japan against Brazil. Obviously having played two seasons in the J League, I have a strong affinity with Japan and my son, producer Harry, was actually born there. Yeah, Brazil managed to turn that around. I was actually quite surprised that the Japanese owner played with a relatively low block because they're very good at keeping the ball. But it's hard to do that over with hundred meters away from the other people.

[Joe Cole]

Let me ask you this question then. For a nation that has a hundred year manifesto. Ange told me about this this week. Why do they play with such fear?

[Host (Gaz)]

That's a good question. Because the whole ethos in Japan and the whole way of thinking is the samurai warriors and we're really bold and brave. So what's missing? Do you think that is a. I mean the playing in the low block, that's.

[Joe Cole]

They went one nil up.

[Host (Gaz)]

I know.

[Joe Cole]

And instantly stopped going player for player, went into a low defensive situation. What is it within their culture to humble them?

[Emma Hayes]

I think it's humility because Japanese are very humble people, aren't they? And I think sometimes in football the best teams have got a little bit of swagger about them and I think if they would have been a bit more braver today.

[Joe Cole]

I think you're right.

[Emma Hayes]

They could have stepped onto Brazil.

[Joe Cole]

It was disappointing though, Joe. You know why? Because I think they are good enough

[Host (Gaz)]

to be in Brazil when they're trailing and I saw it in a previous game and they had to go for it. They look so much better because they can pass it and they can move it and they had a real go and try to score goals and turned a match or two around. But Ancelotti made a few changes in the second half, Millie. And it worked again. He's got that, hasn't he? He's got a bit of something about him.

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, Listen, everyone always questions manager's decision.

[Joe Cole]

She knows it more than anyone.

[Host (Gaz)]

You used to question them all the time.

[Millie Bright]

Yeah, they're permanent. What are you doing?

[Joe Cole]

And you win and you're the best in the world, right?

[Millie Bright]

Exactly. But listen, you have to have belief within your own camp, your own team, your own decisions. And I do think Brazil just have that edge and that grit. And I think that's what Joe's on about. You've got to be a little bit dirty and a little bit gritty sometimes. Football isn't always pleasant. We've won many a trophies been.

[Joe Cole]

I liked how calm he was on the touchline though.

[Host (Gaz)]

It was his, isn't he?

[Millie Bright]

I think he was the only one that was calm.

[Host (Gaz)]

Just the little eyebrow might have gone up a little.

[Joe Cole]

Did you hear what he said post game about when he was asked why he didn't celebrate and he Was like, out of respect for a team that had suffered and endured and had performed really well. He empathized with their pain.

[Host (Gaz)]

You know Carlo, I know play for him.

[Emma Hayes]

He's like.

[Host (Gaz)]

He's a lovely human being.

[Emma Hayes]

Lovely human being. The first time I met Carlo was not the first time I met him. He'd coached us. Then he had a dinner in Chelsea and I was late for the dinner. I know. Like, I was. I didn't even have to drive to dinner, but I was late for dinner. I think the first time the managers asked me to be somewhere and there's a table next to him and all the lads were sitting around, I thought, oh, I've got to see. I've got to sit next to the gaffer for two hours here, and I'm late.

[Millie Bright]

Yeah.

[Emma Hayes]

Oh, shit. So anyway, I just sat down. He just got the bottle of lemon cello out, started feeding me shots.

[Joe Cole]

Good man.

[Emma Hayes]

And he's like, don't worry, you're fine. By the end of the night, we're like best friends.

[Host (Gaz)]

You tip Brazil. Yeah, he's great. He's brilliant. You've tipped Brazil.

[Emma Hayes]

I've tipped Brazil.

[Host (Gaz)]

Still happy with that?

[Emma Hayes]

Still happy. And because of Carlo, because I think with the hydration stroke advertisement breaks that we got, I think that's just.

[Joe Cole]

Shall I get the talk ball down?

[Millie Bright]

Yeah,

[Joe Cole]

you're right about that. It gives the coaches the opportunities to be able to influence the game.

[Emma Hayes]

The amount of time in the game, it's not going the way you want to. And the manager, no matter how good they are, they can be on the side and they can be strong arms. And you've got to work it as a group of players. And all you want to do is go, shit, we need the game to stop now. And just. And the manager will come in and go, right, you do that, you do that. You need to do better at that. And the rhythm of the game changes. And that's what's going to happen at this World Cup. We've seen it already.

[Joe Cole]

The beautiful thing is, Joe, is just that you've got so many analysts. They deliver clips regardless. You know what. The hydration break. We can have a million conversations. It's the coach's break.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah.

[Joe Cole]

It's our opportunity for two or three clips to be able to say, would

[Host (Gaz)]

you like that in the world?

[Joe Cole]

Yeah.

[Host (Gaz)]

Yeah. As a coach. What about as a fan of the game? You know, somebody who's watching, you know, I hate it because it drives me.

[Joe Cole]

I hate it. I hate every minute of it. Even if I've, like, Gone from chalks to magnets in the last week. I genuinely believe that we should have brought some information. I don't want to offend anyone at home. I don't want to disrupt anyone. What I think about with that is you love it if the momentum's against you. You if the momentum's for you. So. And I actually had a look at these things. The ball has been in play more this World cup than any other point and that. I think that's because in some part players are not. Can't kill the game as much because, as you know, with Var being quicker, you get.

[Emma Hayes]

They've been on the throw ins as well.

[Joe Cole]

Yeah, it's been amazing.

[Host (Gaz)]

The refs have let the game go a bit. That's been the best part of this World cup and Var have not got involved.

[Joe Cole]

Amazing.

[Host (Gaz)]

The refs are letting it flow. They're not whistling every time someone touches it.

[Joe Cole]

I know. So.

[Host (Gaz)]

SCREAMS ON THE FLOOR they now play Ivory Coastal Norway. That'll be a good test, wouldn't it?

[Millie Bright]

Yeah. I think every game's been a good test for everyone and I think there's probably a lot of results that have not gone the way things want to go. But that's where I think the media are a little bit harsh and I think they're straight on at people and, oh, they're not performing. These need to be better. But I think.

[Host (Gaz)]

Are you talking about us being judged?

[Millie Bright]

No, you guys are all right, but no, I've been a player. Like when we won the Euros 2022, our first game was Austria, Old Trafford, you know, opening the tournament. Massive moment. We only won one nil and straight away we've just won the first game of the tournament. You know, three points is amazing. Your first game is what you need. Clean sheet straight away. You're in the media. Oh, are you happy with the performance? Struggled a little bit. I'm like, what's about winning?

[Host (Gaz)]

We haven't. I mean, I think every country is probably the same. We all think we should have this divine right just to batter everyone. Yeah.

[Millie Bright]

It's not.

[Host (Gaz)]

I mean, it ain't like that. It's hard. Well cooked are hard, that's for sure. But I. I've just heard in my ear that Morocco have beaten Netherlands in the penalty shootout and that means Morocco play Canada in the next round. So congratulations to Morocco. Amazing. That's it for this episode of the Rest is Football.

[Host (Gary Lineker)]

We'll be back in a few days time and discussing England, of course. But for now, goodbye from me,

[Micah]

Sam.