The Rest Is History, Ep. 288: Jesus Christ – The History (Part 2)

Date: December 22, 2022
Hosts: Tom Holland & Dominic Sandbrook
Podcast: The Rest Is History

Overview

In this episode, Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook continue their exploration into the life of Jesus Christ from a historian’s perspective, addressing what can be credibly established about Jesus, the narratives found in the Gospels, and the historical context of first-century Judea. They scrutinize the famous elements of the Nativity and move through Jesus’s adult ministry, the Passion, Resurrection, and the immediate aftermath of his life, emphasizing how and why Jesus became such a transformative figure.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nativity and Historical Skepticism

[02:11–11:36]

• Dominic Sandbrook opens with a reading of the Nativity from Luke, highlighting its ubiquity in culture and schools.
• Tom Holland quickly addresses the historicity of these details:
  • "We definitely think Jesus existed." (03:49)
  • The Nativity accounts, especially the journey to Bethlehem, highlight major historical and logistical implausibilities—e.g., Joseph following a census due to Davidic descent, Roman tax practices, and the conflicting timelines of King Herod and Quirinius' census.
  • Quote (Tom, 06:43): "That doesn't make sense at all... The idea that the Romans would care about the line of descent from someone who'd lived, you know, centuries and centuries before is insane."
  • Conclusion: The traditional birth narratives are unlikely to be literally true, but Jesus is nevertheless a real historical figure whose memory justifies the stories’ persistence. Much of the Nativity is shaped to fit biblical prophecies and formulaic ancient motifs around miraculous births—parallels with Augustus and Alexander the Great are noted.

2. Jesus’s Early Life and Baptism

[12:09–18:37]

• Discussion moves to Jesus’s background:
  • There is little reason to doubt that his parents were known as Joseph and Mary, nor that he grew up in Nazareth, not Bethlehem.
  • John the Baptist emerges as a significant, historically attested figure; both Josephus and the Gospels note his execution by Herod Antipas.
  • Baptism by John is accepted by historians due to the "criterion of embarrassment"—it is unlikely to have been invented by early Christians, as it implies Jesus needed repentance.
  • Jesus’s sense of purpose and unique vocation is evident early on; he summons twelve disciples, symbolically echoing the tribes of Israel.

3. Teachings, Authority, and Distinctiveness

[18:54–32:59]

• Jesus’s ministry is striking for his parables and moral authority:
  • Claims to the Kingdom of God are central but non-political—"not one that is founded in military exploits... but a kingdom of virtue." (Tom, 24:45)
  • Jesus overturns conventional expectations—engaging with tax collectors, prostitutes, and the marginalized.
  • Not a revolutionary in the conventional sense—a theme misread by both ancient and modern skeptics.
  • Quote (Tom, 24:45): "What Jesus is doing is... announcing the presence, the imminence, the near arrival of a kingdom that has no political substance whatsoever."
• Render unto Caesar:
  • Jesus’s teaching, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God’s," is examined as an example of literary brilliance and theological depth—a phrase unlikely to have been invented later purely for political expediency.

4. Jesus as a Subversive and Messianic Figure

[27:01–32:59]

• Jesus has been described as a proto-socialist or radical for appealing to the marginalized, but Tom insists his message is more metaphysical than political:
  Quote (Tom, 27:34): "The kingdom of God is not of this earth. So he's not a socialist in that sense. He's preaching something stranger."
• The claim to be Messiah is acknowledged as inherently political and explains the Roman decision to execute him.

5. The Passion and Death of Jesus

[36:14–46:12]

• The transition to Jerusalem is depicted as a deliberate step into danger, culminating in confrontations with both temple authorities and Roman power.
• He rides in on a donkey, fulfilling Zechariah’s prophecy intentionally—a symbolic, subversive gesture.
  • Quote (Tom, 38:53): "The thing that's weird about it is that a king would ride on a donkey rather than on a warhorse... the idea that the kingdom is not of this earth seems to be the bedrock of his take on things."
• The cleansing of the Temple demonstrates his zeal against the worldly corruption of divine worship and likely triggers the events leading to his arrest.
• Jesus’s silence before Pilate is seen as an assertion of otherworldly authority, refusing to validate either temple or Roman claims to divine power.
• The Last Supper and its traditions are rooted in the earliest Christian circles, as evidenced by Paul’s letters.

6. Resurrection, Its Impact & Alternative Explanations

[46:12–54:05]

• The Resurrection as historical mystery:
  • Tom and Dominic canvass alternate explanations—fraud, mistake, myth, psychedelic cults (notorious 1960s “magic mushroom” theory), and even extraterrestrial hypotheses.
  • Tom underscores that, whatever occurred, Jesus’s followers had a genuine, overwhelming experience that led to explosive evangelistic activity—this, not simply the content of the Resurrection, is most significant.
  • Quote (Tom, 48:48): "It does seem to me a basic historical fact that they must have experienced something, because again, it’s why otherwise would they have believed what they believed?"
• The claims made for Jesus escalate rapidly after his death, as seen in Paul’s letters (e.g., 1 Thessalonians—Jesus as Kyrios, "Lord").

7. Jesus’s Legacy and the Birth of Christianity

[54:05–61:21]

• Tom emphasizes that the radical nature of Jesus lies in his teachings, his death, and the perceived fulfillment of prophecy—together explaining Christianity's appeal and growth.
• The birth of Christianity is not well explained by social, economic, or purely contextual factors; rather, it is the result of Jesus’s unique personality and message.
  • Quote (Tom, 59:04): "I think you could, and indeed I have, explain 2,000 years of Western history as attempts to answer who Jesus was."
• The New Testament’s sources, while imperfect, are considered surprisingly robust when compared with other ancient figures.

8. Concluding Reflections

[62:00–63:11]

• The hosts agree that, despite the episode’s length, they’ve barely scratched the surface and that the story of Jesus is arguably the most significant and foundational in world history.
• Tom concludes with the last verse of the Gospel of St. John, underscoring the enduring magnitude of Jesus’s impact:
  • Quote (Tom, 62:50): “And there are also many other things which Jesus did... if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom (04:53): “[I]t seems to me that that is a much more improbable explanation that it was just made up than the fact that it does derive from someone extraordinary.”
• Tom (09:11): "No, he’s born in Nazareth. He’s clearly born in Nazareth. He’s Jesus of Nazareth."
• Dominic (27:09): "So there are people... who’ve seen him as... a sort of proto socialist, a kind of social radical, a prophet of social change. Is that at all reasonable?"
• Tom (27:56): "The strangeness of it, I think, is what leads him to be put to death."
• Tom (44:26): "Almost everything that Jesus says and almost everything more, perhaps more pertinently, that Jesus does has this kind of striking, memorable quality that seems almost designed to enable people to remember it."
• Dominic (54:36): "What is unusual [is that] his followers affirm very vigorously that he was resurrected, that he ascended into heaven, and that they spread across the Eastern Mediterranean with this story, and that it catches on. That is what elevates it, isn’t it? It’s the resurrection and what follows."
• Tom (62:16): "Had Jesus not existed, I think the world would be unfathomably different."

Timed Segment Table

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:11–06:43 | The Nativity: tradition vs. history, plausibility of the birth narrative | | 06:43–08:59 | Problems with census and connections to Roman historical references | | 09:11–12:28 | Jesus’s birth in Nazareth, Joseph and Mary as historical figures | | 12:28–18:37 | John the Baptist, Jesus’s baptism, and Jesus’s sense of vocation | | 18:54–25:15 | Jesus’s teachings, authority, and claims about the Kingdom of God | | 27:01–29:38 | Jesus as subversive, his appeal to the marginalized, Messianic claims | | 36:14–40:42 | Entry into Jerusalem, cleansing the Temple, direct challenges | | 44:26 | The memory and distinctiveness of Jesus’s teachings | | 46:12–54:05 | The Resurrection—interpretations, alternate explanations, unique impact | | 54:36–61:21 | Christianity’s singular growth and Jesus’s legacy | | 62:00–63:11 | Significance of Jesus in world history; Gospel reading to close |

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a skeptical, yet deeply appreciative, historian’s view of the evidence for Jesus and the birth of Christianity, with both hosts emphasizing the enduring strangeness, originality, and influence of Jesus’s teachings and person. They underscore the limited but significant confidence historians can have about Jesus as a historical figure, while reflecting on how and why his message changed the world.