Loading summary
Transcript169 lines
- [00:00]
Dominic Sandbrook
Thank you for listening to the Rest is History.
- [00:02]
Tom Holland
For weekly bonus episodes, ad free listening, early access to series and membership of our much loved chat community.
- [00:09]
Dominic Sandbrook
Go to there and join the club that is there.
- [00:19]
Nadia Yada
This episode is brought to you by Indiana Jones and the Great Circle.
- [00:23]
Dominic Sandbrook
Uncover one of history's greatest mysteries in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, a first person single player video game set between Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. The year is 1937. Sinister forces are scouring the globe for the secret to an ancient power and only one person can stop them.
- [00:44]
Nadia Yada
Indiana Jones Adventure Calls Indiana Jones and the Great Circle out December 9th on Xbox Series X&S Game Pass and PC pre order now.
- [00:55]
Dominic Sandbrook
Rated T for Teen Copyright and Trademark 2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved.
- [01:01]
Nadia Yada
Welcome to Nada Yadda Island.
- [01:03]
Benny
We're back on the N. Nadia Yada Island Confessions Show. Benny is about to tell us how he found two loves. Go ahead.
- [01:09]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, thanks to Metro I found iPhone.
- [01:11]
Benny
12 and Apple Watch SE at Metro. Get the perfect match of both iPhone 12 with 5G and Apple Watch SE for only 99.99. You heard that right. Both for just 99.99 holidays with nada Yada yada only at Metro by T Mobile.
- [01:25]
Metro
Bring your number and id, sign up for Metro Flex plus and add a watch line not available if you're with T Mobile or bandwidth Metro in the past 180 days limit two per account.
- [01:31]
Home Depot
The holidays are here at the Home Depot, so let's get to decorating. Find your perfect tree in our huge assortment of shapes, sizes and styles like the easy to assemble Jackson Noble fir with pre lit branches perfect for styling with all your favorite ornaments. Or the Phlox Starry Light Frasier fir with over 1900 pre lit memory wire branches that keep their shape so it's ready right out of the box. Ooh, find the perfect tree now at the Home Depot.
- [02:12]
Tom Holland
Three massive piles rose prominent before our view from an extensive and confused series of mounds, at once showing the importance of the ruins which we, their first European visitors, now rapidly approached. The whole was surrounded by a lofty and strong line of earthen ramparts, concealing from view all but the principal objects. Beyond the walls were several conical mounds, one of which equaled in altitude the highest structure within the circumscribed area. Each step that we took after crossing the walls convinced me that Waka was a much more important place than had been hitherto supposed, and that its vast mounds, abounding in objects of the highest interest deserved A thorough exploration. I determined, therefore, on using every effort to make researches at Waka, which of all the ruins in Chaldea, is alone worthy to rank with those of Babylon and Nineveh? So, Tom, that was Sir William Loftus, and he's writing in Travels and Researches in Chaldea, or Chaldea and the Susiana, which is in 1857. He's a British geologist, isn't he? And he's been working as part of an international commission drawing up the border between the empires of the Ottomans and the Persians. So tell us what he's the place he's talking about here, because this is one of. We love a mystery story, and this is one of history's greatest mysteries.
- [03:47]
Nadia Yada
So it's a very mysterious place. As he says in his book. It's called Waka, and it's in southern Mesopotamia. It had been a frontier post of the Persian Empire back in the age of Muhammad, but when the Arabs had conquered the Persian Empire, it had effectively been abandoned. And it's a site like Ozymandias. Nothing beside remains. You know, you have the lone and level sands stretching far away. And Loftus actually says that it's the most desolate spot that he had ever visited. But he does sense that there's something important about it, something strange about it, and there absolutely is. And people who are watching this on YouTube will realize that we're not recording this at home. And we are, in fact in Manhattan. We're in New York City, I guess, in lots of ways the archetype of a great modern international metropolis. And there is a link joining New York, London, Tokyo, Beijing, all the great cities of the world to this desolate spot. But it's not immediately obvious just how significant a place this is. And it takes a process of archeology stretching right the way up to the present day. So Loftus himself, he does come back, he does some kind of desultory excavations, and then he leaves Waka and then Germans come in. They're excavating here just before the First World War. They continue after that. Obviously, there have been kind of interruptions for the various Iraq wars over recent years. But the process of archeology has revealed that Loftus initial sense that this was a really key spot was absolutely true. And as you say, it is a place so full of mystery that you might say that this is one of the great mysteries in the entire story of human history.
- [05:33]
Tom Holland
Well, Tom, is it not fair to say that this story that we're going to be telling today is arguably one of the most consequential, significant stories we've ever told on the rest is history. Because this mysterious ruined city, you could argue, is the single most important place in the history of humankind.
- [05:50]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, because it's the site for one of the, if not the greatest, turning points in the whole history of human civilization. So what is it about Waka that makes it so significant? There are two dimensions to it. The first is it is incredibly old. So I said that it gets abandoned in the age of Mohammed, so around a few generations after the Arab conquest. So about 700. 700. Yeah, about that. But we now know that the origins of this place stretch all the way back to 5000 BC. So it's been continuously inhabited for almost 6000 years. And we now know that it was a place originally called Uruk. But you can see that, you know, Waka, Uruk, it's clearly the same place now. But the other thing about it, it's not just that it's old, but that it is, by the standards of every other settlement, say, around 4,000 or 3,000 BC, it is enormous. So imagine you are approaching this place, Uruk, in 3000 BC, and what do you see as you approach it? You are surrounded by canals, by irrigation systems, by fields. The fields are full of crops. They're also full of livestock. As you draw nearer to it, you then see something that you would see nowhere else on the face of the planet at this time. And it is a thing of wonder. And, you know, there are writers later from Uruk who will praise it in these terms, this fastness thrusting high above the azure plain around this city, sprouting tall from earth to sea. This Uruk, whose very name gleams like the rainbow. Everything about it is hyperbole. It is the wonder of the world. There are vast city walls. So these are the walls that Loftus sees. Yeah, they're about 23, 24ft tall, 6 miles in circumference. Within the walls, as you approach it, you can see that there are two towering temples. The first of these is called the Ayana, which literally means the house of heaven. And it is sacred to the goddess, who, in the opinion of the people of Uruk, founded the city. And this is a goddess called Inanna, who the Babylonians subsequently would call Ishtar, because great, powerful civilization bringing goddess. The other temple is a temple to the great sky God Anu. And this is sheathed in gleaming white plaster. It's radiant. It catches the lights of the sun. So that's what the meaning of the phrase gleaming like the rainbow, again, a stupefying sight. If you've never seen anything like this, you then go in through the gates. You're surrounded by market gardens, so dates and various things like that. There are industrial zones, so brick making factories, potteries, all this kind of stuff. And then you go into the actual city itself. And it is again, I mean, this is a place that it has no comparison anywhere. It's cramped, it's labyrinthine. The houses have no windows, so that keeps the heat out, so it remains cool even in the heat of summer. And these are carefully zoned districts. So a lot of thought has gone into the urban planning. The population may be as high as 80,000. I mean, 80,000 people concentrated in a single space. And the total area of the city within the city walls is about three square miles. And just for a point of comparison, the walls of imperial Rome in its heyday, so around A.D. 200, contained an area only twice that size.
- [09:20]
Tom Holland
Right. So we've got a huge place, temples, tens of thousands of people. We have the factories, we have the canals, we have all that kind of stuff. And I guess it's the combination of the two things, isn't it? The fact that it's so vast and the fact so old. That means that historians, archeologists have seen this as the world's first city.
- [09:41]
Nadia Yada
Yes.
- [09:41]
Tom Holland
As the first place where human beings live together in what we would now call the ancestor of New York or Chicago or London or wherever.
- [09:47]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. This is where urbanism begins. This is where the story that culminates in the city we're in now, New York. This is where it starts. And in the fourth millennium, to quote Gwendolyn, like, who wrote a book called Mesopotamia, Tellingly, the subtitle is the Invention of the City. I mean, she describes it as being the only really large urban center in the fourth millennium. And so the question then is, how did Uruk begin? And why was it Uruk? Why was it this particular place? And the arguments around it and the fascination of this kind of puzzle actually remind me of the arguments that people have about why industrialization began in Britain. There are lots of places that you might think of where industrialization could have happened, and they don't. So why does it specifically happen in Britain? And likewise, why does urbanization happen in Uruk? And then there is a further question, a further mystery, which is, how does this process of urbanization change humanity? Because if this is the first experience in history of people living together in a city.
- [10:49]
Tom Holland
Yeah.
- [10:49]
Nadia Yada
Does it change what it is to be human? Does it kind of rewire the brain? Does it set up patterns of behavior and social intercourse that have no precedent when Uruk is built, but which we now take for granted? So it's just such an amazing story, I think.
- [11:04]
Tom Holland
Well, let's try to put this in a bigger context, Tom. So the great sort of shift in human history, the first great shift or the agricultural revolution, that happens at the end of the last Ice age, which is almost 12,000 years ago, and that's the point at which hunter gatherers start domesticating crops. And obviously Mesopotamia, Iraq, as we would now call it, that kind of zone, because it's the Fertile Crescent and it's the most obvious place for agriculture to start. So tell us something about that to give us a bit of context for this.
- [11:34]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. So Mesopotamia is part of the Fertile Crescent, but the Fertile Crescent consists of more than Mesopotamia. So you've also got the uplands of Anatolia, what's now Turkey, you've got Syria going down into Israel, Palestine. And the thing about the Fertile Crescent is that it has an incredible array of, you know, soil types, of variations of climate, of altitude. So that means that there are lots of different crops, lots of different plants growing. And this is the home of lots of different varieties of wheat. You get barley, you get lentils, peas, you get flax, which of course quite useful for making clothing. But also, as well as plant life, you also have fauna. And you remember, we talked about this in the context of the Aztecs as why the Americas do not develop in the way that Eurasia does.
- [12:25]
Tom Holland
They don't have draft animals, and also.
- [12:27]
Nadia Yada
They don't have animals that they can domesticate. So the ancestors of sheep, of goats, of cows, of pigs, all of which are part of human agriculture today. I mean, this again, this is where it begins. And if you're a hunter gatherer, if you're kind of roaming around and then you find a spot where, you know there's wild wheat growing and also you have herds of animals, then why would you continue roaming? You might as well kind of settle down and enjoy the fruits of nature. And that is what people do start to do very, very early on. And these camps then start to become kind of settled communities. So probably the oldest, certainly the most famous of these kind of hunter gatherer camps that become a permanent settlement is Jericho in what's now on the West Bank.
- [13:16]
Tom Holland
People always say Jericho is the oldest inhabited place on the planet, don't they? So it's about 11,000 years old.
- [13:21]
Nadia Yada
It's the oldest continuously inhabited. Right. Because it's a city to this day, it's not initially what we would call a city. It shows, you know, there are kind of developments that will become features of urbanism. So Jericho people first settled there about 11,000 years ago, and by about 9,000 BC, you've got reliable winter rains, you've got productive harvests and abundant wild game. So these are the words of Stephen Mithin in his book after the Ice, and he says the Jericho people had no need to leave, and they start to build walls and they even build a tower. And Mithun says that such architecture was completely unprecedented in human history. So there is kind of foreshadowings of urbanism there. But it doesn't become a city. There's no urban liftoff. It's just a large village. I mean, in due course, it will become a city, but not for many, many thousands of years in the future. And this is true of other settlements as well across the Fertile Crescent that are kind of starting to sprout up in a similar way to Jericho. There's a very famous one called Catal Hayuk in Turkey, maybe about 5,000 inhabitants there. So this is in the seventh millennium. It seems to be quite an oppressive place.
- [14:30]
Tom Holland
They love a skull.
- [14:31]
Nadia Yada
They do. I think you get the sense that the people living there, I mean, they're menaced all the time by a sense of the supernatural around them. So not, I think, a particularly pleasant place to live.
- [14:39]
Tom Holland
Yeah, like New York.
- [14:41]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, but that doesn't take off. And there is also, down in Mesopotamia, you're also starting to get these kind of proto cities, large villages developing both in the north and the south of Mesopotamia. So an example of a city in the north is a place called Tell Brac in what's now Syria, merges about the same time as catalhaiuk. So the seventh millennium. And by the fourth millennium, it seems to be ready for liftoff, rather like you might say the Netherlands is ready to industrialize in the 17th century. But it doesn't. It remains basically a large village. And then by the end of the fourth millennium, it goes into remission. It's kind of contracting, it's disintegrating, it's collapsing. But this is the very time down in southern Mesopotamia that Uruk is starting to enjoy takeoff. So to quote Guillermo Al Ghaze, and I hope I've pronounced his name right, might be Al Ghaz, but I'll call him Al Ghazi, who's written a book, Ancient Mesopotamia at the dawn of Civilization, and he puts it in this way, a decisive shift in favor of southern Mesopotamia, of the balance of urbanization, sociopolitical complexity, and economic differentiation that had existed across the ancient east until the onset of the fourth millennium. So something is happening in southern Mesopotamia, the place where Uruk will emerge, that is happening nowhere else. Hadn't happened in Syria, hadn't happened in Palestine, hadn't happened in Anatolia, hadn't happened in northern Mesopotamia. So why? So, I mean, this is obviously a fascinating, very, very pressing question. And so there have been lots of very broad brush theories about it. And the earliest theories were that Uruk, where it emerges that it's the result of conquest by outsiders, and these outsiders have been called the Sumerians. And the analogy that is often pursued is with the emergence of where we are today, Manhattan, over the course of the 17th into the 18th century, because there had to be no sign of urbanization here. And then with the coming of European colonists, you start to get the city that we're now sitting in. So is this proof that the Sumerians had come and they had founded, planted this great city in the middle of nowhere? Yes, but that's not really an answer because it's just kicking the problem down the can, down the road. Because where did the Sumerians get the idea for urbanism from? Doesn't really answer the puzzle. And also recent archeology, so over recent decades, has demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt that there were no newcomers, that the people we call the Sumerians were very, very anciently rooted there. The parallels of the culture of Uruk are easily traceable to the archeological remains that precede the emergence of Uruk. So that theory is no longer accepted. And then there's another theory which I think is probably on the popular level. It's one that lots of people, I think, would probably assume is the explanation. And that is that although Mesopotamia is very fertile, it's also quite difficult to channel that fertility. You know, you've got these two great rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates, and if you're going to irrigate the mudflats beyond them, you need great workforces to dig the irrigation canals.
- [17:42]
Tom Holland
Yeah.
- [17:43]
Nadia Yada
And the only way that this could have been organized would be by having a powerful elite who could organize the masses to do it for them. And this, in turn, once it's been done, would generate surpluses. And these surpluses could then start to be spent on, you know, massive walls and temples, towers and stuff.
- [18:01]
Tom Holland
Yeah.
- [18:02]
Nadia Yada
And of course, also keeping the elites in the comfort to which they're becoming used.
- [18:06]
Tom Holland
Right.
- [18:06]
Nadia Yada
And so for the elites of Uruk. This would be brilliant. It would be a kind of virtuous circle because they get richer and richer and the oppressed masses get more and more enslaved to them, more and more obliged to labor to keep them in the style that they're accustomed to. Now, this theory also has fallen by the wayside, and that's because today there is a recognition that what is happening in the fourth millennium bc, and it's only really recently been conclusively proved, is a process of climate change. And you have rising sea levels and the Persian Gulf back in the fifth millennium, going into the fourth millennium, it reaches inland about 200 miles higher than it does today, so much higher up into the kind of the flatlands of what is now Iraq. And the spread northwards of seawater means that you have an unbelievably rich variety of potential foodstuffs. You have sea fish, you have mollusks, you have marshlands, and in them you have kind of waterfowl, you have the floodplain, of course, where you can grow wheat, and then you have kind of more arid, almost kind of semi desert regions where you can keep livestock. So essentially it's potentially a massive great ladder. And so it's understandable that as the seawaters spread northwards into what's now Iraq, so people start to congregate along its shores and to go out into the marshes and to kind of build settlements there. And the result of this, the fact that you have this whole range of ecosystems is, it seems in the fifth and then into the fourth millennium you are starting to get a greater concentration of people than anywhere else on the planet.
- [19:46]
Tom Holland
So I remember reading something about this in a book a few years ago by Ben Wilson called Metropolis.
- [19:51]
Nadia Yada
It's a brilliant book.
- [19:52]
Tom Holland
Yeah. And he was talking about people building these sort of settlements on these marshy islands. And there's one in particular, isn't there, where they build a shrine. And he points to that as a sort of key moment in the emergence of this kind of proto urban culture, if you like. So tell us a bit about that, Tom.
- [20:09]
Nadia Yada
I'll actually quote Ben Wilson. I've got a lifted a passage from his wonderful book Metropolis on this. This is a shrine that's built around 5,400 BC, and Wilson says of it on a sandbank beside a lagoon where the desert met the Mesopotamian marshes. Perhaps at first people saw this place as sacred because the lagoon was a life giving force. The earliest signs of human life here in the sandy island that would be called Eridu were the bones of fish and wild animals, as well as mussel shells, suggesting this holy spot was a place of ritual feasting. In time, a small shrine was built to worship the God of fresh water. And then the centuries pass, and Eridu is built and rebuilt and rebuilt, and it becomes larger and larger and larger, and it comes to be seen by the people who live around it as the holiest place in the world, the place where the world itself emerged into being. Dry land is fashioned out of the primordial waters, kind of shaped and molded out of mud by the great God Enki. And the temple of Eridu is raised to Enki, and it serves as a symbol not just of the victory of order over chaos, of eternity over oblivion, but it's the very place where the great God Enki, the creator God himself, actually lives. So if the God who ensures that order is preserved, that the lands around the sea don't just melt back into the chaos of the waters, you need to keep him on board, you need to keep him happy. And so, inevitably, this results in the emergence of a kind of priesthood. And they have authority over the people who are contributing labor and goods to this temple because they can say, well, if you don't do what we say, then, you know, the world will collapse and melt away. What it reminds me of is Stonehenge, which is built much later, but a similar process of a site that is clearly very holy, not just to locals, but to people from far across Britain. And you get people coming for great feasts at the site of Stonehenge. The temple itself remains kind of sacrosanct, but you do get signs of large villages, large settlements. But again, the comparison with Stonehenge only focuses the puzzle. How do you get from this temple on an island in southern Mesopotamia to the emergence of the first city to the emergence of Uruk?
- [22:39]
Tom Holland
Right, Because Eridu doesn't become a city, but Uruk does. There's some story, isn't there? Is there some sort of folk tale about how they get the idea from Eridu and they take it to Uruk? Have I remembered that right, Tom?
- [22:51]
Nadia Yada
Yes. So Enki is in his temple, and basically he's being selfish. He's not sharing the gifts of civilization, the fruits of his knowledge. In Greek myth, he's a bit like Zeus hoarding fire. And in the Greek myth, Prometheus the Titan comes and steals fire and gives it to humanity, and then human civilization can begin. And that role in Mesopotamian myth is played by the goddess we've already mentioned, Inanna, who will become Ishtar to the Babylonians. And she steals the secrets of civilization from Enki by getting him drunk on beer. So she, you know, she gets him pissed and she steals everything that he knows. I mean, if you like, it's a kind of data theft, right? She moves in and she recognizes knowledge is power, and she takes these secrets and she takes it to the Ayana, the House of heaven that we mentioned as being this great temple in Uruk. And this is the place where she settles. And it establishes a second focal point for the peoples of southern Mesopotamia. Only this is one in which the God is not kind of hugging knowledge to himself, but is generous with it, wants to share it with the whole of humanity.
- [24:02]
Tom Holland
How does that story match the archaeological evidence of the temples in Uruk? Tom?
- [24:09]
Nadia Yada
Beautifully. I mean, this is why it's so wonderful. So I mentioned these two great temples that get founded about 5000 B.C. the Ayanna and the neighboring temple, the temple to Anu, the sky God, the Colaba. And they are like the temple to Enki on Eridu, that they are constantly being built and rebuilt and rebuilt. And each time they are rebuilt, the existing structure is kind of incorporated within it.
- [24:34]
Tom Holland
Right.
- [24:35]
Nadia Yada
So Gwendolyn, like in her book, says the past and the memory are sealed in a new foundation laid quite literally upon the leveled remains. And the result, as the centuries and then the millennia pass, is architecture on an absolutely unprecedentedly monumental scale. These are, by miles, the largest structures that any humans have built at that time.
- [24:57]
Tom Holland
And an obvious question, how are they building this and who's doing it? I mean, are they doing it with a willing workforce? Are they doing it with slaves? How's that happening?
- [25:06]
Nadia Yada
Well, the thing that's fascinating is that it does seem to be more voluntary than perhaps the kind of more pessimistic takes on the emergence of urbanism would have it. So there's a brilliant scholar of this whole process called Pietr Steinkeller. He describes these kind of these cylinder seals, which are kind of tubes, and you roll them in clay, they give you a kind of strip cartoon. So they're not exactly writing, but they are images encoded with meaning. And he refers to an assembly of cylinder seals, and he describes them as being the only evidence of a potentially historical nature that survives from late prehistoric times. So that's amazing. I mean, before the invention of writing, there are pictorial representations that you can extrapolate information about what the people who lived in that period were doing. And what these seals suggest is that the construction of these great temples at what will become Uruk is a collective activity. It records gifts of commodities and in fact, labor as well, to Inanna, the deity of Uruk. And this implies a kind of, I guess, a confederacy, because people are giving the gifts. Yeah. From different settlements.
- [26:13]
Tom Holland
Yeah. There must be some wider federation or something.
- [26:16]
Nadia Yada
But what this also implies is that it's not just Inanna who is the beneficiary of this, but Uruk itself. So, to quote Steinkheller, it now becomes clear that Uruk, rather than being merely one of the participating settlements, was the focus and beneficiary of the system. So I absolutely love this because it turns out that the origins of urbanism dominate lies in the dimension of the sacron.
- [26:39]
Tom Holland
I guess so. Or you could say a form of colonialism, that one city is extracting resources from its neighbours, could you not?
- [26:46]
Nadia Yada
Yes, but this is a display of.
- [26:47]
Tom Holland
Devotion to the gods, and the sacrality is merely a pretext for what's at the heart of history, which is power.
- [26:54]
Nadia Yada
Well, you could say that the sacral and the manifestations of power in the here and now are so interfused that it becomes almost impossible to distinguish them.
- [27:03]
Tom Holland
But just before we get to the break, Tom, they're not just building big temples and stuff like that, are they?
- [27:07]
Nadia Yada
No, they're not.
- [27:08]
Tom Holland
They're also doing kind of engineering, so reshaping the landscape around them, I guess.
- [27:13]
Nadia Yada
Well into the fourth millennium, the landscape is being reshaped by the climate because the sea is starting to retreat again. So it's gone right the way up into Iraq. And now in the fourth millennium, it is starting to retreat back to where the Persian Gulf begins now. And as a consequence of this, the marshes are drying up. And so people who had been dependent for their food on the wildfowl in the marshes or the fish and the mollusks in the sea are now having to look for other ways to sustain themselves. And so what they do, you know, it's obviously a terrible crisis for them. But they have these two great temples which by now are millennia old, and they serve as reassurances, symbols that the gods will look after them, that they will uphold the order that emerged back in the beginning with Enki. So they flock to Uruk because it seems the safest place to go. It's a kind of refuge. And the people who are coming are people who are very, very familiar with irrigation, with using water to sustain themselves, and probably have the engineering skills that will enable Uruk to be sustained by building canals, by starting to fertilize the fields with water. And so on. And Algaze in his book, fascinatingly compares this process to how Chicago emerged in the 19th century. He says that Chicago initially lived in what he describes as its natural landscape. So in other words, Chicago is built on, you know, as a Great Lakes port. That's what initially enables it to become a major settlement. But then in the 19th century, developments like expansion of the railroads, the opening up of the Wild west, refrigeration, enable it to serve as a focus for what Agase calls a created landscape. You can see the parallel there with Uruk. Initially it's there because you have all these lagoons, you know, the sea and everything. But when it retreats, you have to create a new infrastructure, a new environment. And Uruk proves able to deal with that as well. And not just to survive, but to flourish.
- [29:19]
Tom Holland
Okay, brilliant. So here we have the first story in human history of a city evolving, right?
- [29:24]
Nadia Yada
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Tom Holland
And the human landscape kind of changing.
- [29:26]
Nadia Yada
Yeah.
- [29:26]
Tom Holland
You mentioned in the first half that you wanted to talk about how it changes us, how Uruk, the first city, changes what it means to be human. So let's do that after the break.
- [29:36]
Chevrolet
Looking for a pickup truck to get just about anything done. Look no further. The Chevy Silverado EV isn't just the most powerful Silverado ever with next level towing capability and technology. It also offers game changing versatility with the available multiflex midgate and tailgate. Which means Silverado EV helps you carry large, bulky and oddly shaped items up to nearly 11ft in length. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit Chevrolet.com to learn more.
- [30:04]
Metro
Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love.
- [30:09]
Nadia Yada
And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest, the last one I needed for my set.
- [30:14]
Benny
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind.
- [30:18]
Nadia Yada
Ebay had it.
- [30:19]
Benny
And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you.
- [30:22]
Nadia Yada
Get your windshield wipers?
- [30:23]
Tom Holland
Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [30:30]
Metro
Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay. Things people love with Uber.
- [30:35]
Benny
Reserve good things, come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay. Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights to all the planners. Now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details.
- [30:55]
Tom Holland
Like a young man building a house for the first time. Like a girl establishing a woman's domain. Holy Inanna did not sleep as she ensured that the warehouses would be provisioned, that dwellings would be founded in the city, that his people would eat splendid food, that they would drink splendid beverages, that those who had bathed for holidays would rejoice in the courtyards, that the people would throng the places of celebration, that acquaintances would dine together, that foreigners would cruise about like unusual birds in the sky, elephants, water buffalo, exotic animals, as well as thoroughbred dogs, lions, mountain ibexes and sheep with long wool, or jostle each other in the public squares. The city walls, like a mountain, reached the heavens. So that's from the Curse of Akkad, a poem that was written in about 2000 BC, so long after the heyday of Uruk. We're recording this in New York and our American listeners will be very pleased there by the mention of beverages, Tom, or what in English we call drinks.
- [31:55]
Nadia Yada
Yep.
- [31:55]
Tom Holland
So tell us about Akkad. So Akkad is often seen as one of the great early cities, isn't it? So Akkad is the capital of Sargon.
- [32:02]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. So it's a purpose built capital. Sargon is the first great imperial conqueror. And that poem describes the fall not of Uruk, but of Akkad around 2000 BC. So that's 3000 years after the founding of Uruk. And the reason that that poem describes Inanna as the foundress of Akkad is that Sargon and his heirs had attempted to appropriate everything that Uruk was and kind of attribute it to this new upstart city of Akkad. So he describes Sargon, in one inscription, describes himself as the overseer of Inanna, another as the anointed one of Anu. And it's an illustration of the way in which the path that is blazed by Uruk is followed by countless cities, countless conquerors, countless great leaders in the millennia that follow it. And I guess there would be a parallel with the barbarians who conquer the Roman Empire or China once they have subdued the empires, they want a bit of it. This is why they've come. They want the wealth, they want the sophistication, they want the character and the color and the mythology of these great societies. But there is a difference, because the debt that the cities of Mesopotamia like Akkad owe to Uruk is infinitely profounder. I mean, Uruk is the prototype not just of a civilization like Rome or China, but of civilization itself. There has been nothing like it ever.
- [33:35]
Tom Holland
You've compared it in your notes to AI. So an absolute game changer. So something that changes the human condition, what it is to be human and to live in the world. Exciting, but also potentially dangerous. Indeed deadly.
- [33:48]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. The other Parallel with AI is that the real transformation is in the dimension less of hardware than of software, so in the rewiring of the brain itself. And in fact, you could say that the city is kind of like an enormous brain, a collective brain. And the existence of this brain kind of requires new ways of thinking, but it also generates new ways of thinking. And these new ways of thinking in turn result in new forms of social organization, of communication, and maybe just, you know, of conceptualizing the very nature of what it is to be human and how humanity relates to the broader cosmos, the broader universe.
- [34:32]
Tom Holland
So you've given an example in your notes, haven't you, of two innovations that come about because of the need to cope with particular challenges. And those are challenges really at born of scale, because a city like Uruk, it needs stuff, it needs supplies, it needs materials, it needs food. So talk us through these two innovations.
- [34:49]
Nadia Yada
So these are on the technical level, the technological level.
- [34:52]
Tom Holland
Yeah.
- [34:52]
Nadia Yada
So this is hardware rather than software. And one of these is the domestication of the humble donkey, which the people of Uruk seem to have been the first to domesticate. And the stats on this are striking. So it's been estimated that a train of, say 40 donkeys could carry almost £7,000 of cargo over 20 miles a day. And again, if you think of the parallel with Chicago, the invention of the railroads opens up vast, vast stretches of territory that the people of Chicago can now exploit. And in its own humble way, the donkey is kind of doing the same. And the other thing that seems to have been developed in Uruk is the wheel and the axle. And again, that's responding to a need. But it's also because you have people who would be qualified to come up with this kind of invention. You have very skilled craftsmen who can shape wheels, who can shape axles and so on. So again, it's not surprising that it's in Uruk that this kind of momentous innovation emerges, because you need tools to make these things.
- [35:50]
Tom Holland
So that spurs an innovation of a different kind, because we're in Mesopotamia, it's also on the Tigris and the Euphrates. So sails, Right. Boats, they're bringing stuff in by water as well.
- [36:00]
Nadia Yada
Yeah.
- [36:00]
Tom Holland
So that must be a massively important thing. And I guess that gives you a sense of the idea that the city is the hub of a great network that extends out beyond itself, that it's not self sufficient, that they're bringing stuff in, you know, metals or food or whatever.
- [36:15]
Nadia Yada
Or wood, particularly, because there's almost no wood in Mesopotamia. Yeah.
- [36:19]
Tom Holland
Now Here's a question for you. So in the first half, I said, you know, is it like a colonial relationship kind of exploiting the hinterland? So is it. Are they paying for this stuff or are they just taking it?
- [36:29]
Nadia Yada
Well, this is much debated. There are scholars, so Agassiz, he's very keen on the idea that there is a kind of colonial system that gets established. There are others who say it's largely a trading network. But again, I mean, this reminds me of debates around Britain's role as the first industrial nation. Is the process of industrialization what enables the colonial system to be established? Is it the other way around? Is it a bit of both? And it's clear that as with Britain, so with Uruk being the brand leader, the first to develop a way of organizing your society in a way that maximizes what you can produce, it massively opens up trade links because you can control those trade links and you then have things to sell. So what is also happening in Uruk is that things like pottery, things like textiles, things like metals are being developed on a scale and with a degree of sophistication that, again, has never been seen ever in history. So potters in Uruk seem to have developed the potter's wheel kilns that enable more and more pots to be developed. Very, very distinctive kind of pottery is made in Uruk, and it's been found across, you know, in Syria, in Anatolia, even as far as what's now Pakistan. And of course, this encourages foreign communities to model themselves on Uruk. You know, a great exporting power is able to shape the tastes of those who are importing them. And in that sense, there's a kind of cultural colonialism, isn't there?
- [37:58]
Tom Holland
This must therefore be kind of production on a kind of scale that we haven't seen before. So production of the textiles or the pottery or whatever. And again, that reinforces that kind of parallel with Britain in the Industrial Revolution, that Britain has developed mass production. You know, it's got the prototypical factories of the late 18th and early 19th century. And if Uruk can do this, then that must mean it has a level of organization.
- [38:22]
Nadia Yada
Yeah.
- [38:22]
Tom Holland
That no community in human history has ever had to this point. Would that be right?
- [38:26]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. You know, I said how it's really in the dimension of software rather than hardware that Uruk's potency is most vividly displayed. And there are two real kind of innovations in that field. So the first is in the field of what we would now call data management.
- [38:42]
Tom Holland
Right.
- [38:43]
Nadia Yada
And Uruk, and specifically the great temple To Inanna, in the heart of Uruk, is home to the earliest surviving writing found anywhere in the world. If we discount that writing that we talked about in Serbia as not actually being writing, this essentially is where writing is invented and we can trace its evolution in some detail. So those cylinder seals that I described, those kind of circular tubes that you inscribe details on, drawings and so on, and you then roll them in clay. These are illustrated with kind of motifs that are starting to move towards kind of pictograms. So images that are conveying quite a lot of information that will be understood by quite a broad array of bureaucrats. And then you have things that are called bullae. So little ball, little hollow clay balls. And these contain little clay tokens. And these tokens a bit like, I suppose, items on a Monopoly board or something.
- [39:42]
Tom Holland
Yeah, like board game tokens.
- [39:44]
Nadia Yada
Yeah. They are shaped to represent a kind of, you know, something that you want to sell, a commodity. So I don't know, a roll of cloth or a pot or a jar of oil or something like that. And these are basically contracts. So you have an agreement, you know, if it's to deliver a load of pottery, you have a pot, you put it in this bull eye in this kind of clay ball, and then you take it to the temple, you leave it there. And then once the contract has been completed, you crack open the clay ball and the accounting tokens are removed. And this demonstrates that the contract has been fulfilled and the agreement can be legally terminated.
- [40:20]
Tom Holland
Right.
- [40:21]
Nadia Yada
Over the course of time, these various images start to evolve to become what we would recognize as writing. So they kind of evolve into, well, famously kind of wedge shaped images. So from the Latin, this comes to be called cuneiform. And this will be a form of writing that will endure for thousands and thousands of years. And the thing that I was, as an enthusiast for literature and poetry, the thing I always find sobering about this is you realize that literacy and writing begins not with poets. It begins not with storytellers, as I'd always imagined, but with accountants.
- [40:57]
Tom Holland
Oh, Tom, I love this.
- [40:59]
Nadia Yada
And amazingly, we probably have the name of one of these accountants. So sometime in the late fourth millennium, a scribe writes a receipt. By this point, you know, the writing has developed that you can put it into writing. And this scribe wrote down 28,086 barley, 37 months, Kushima. So what or who is kushim? So kushim could be the name of the holder of an office or a particular institution, but it's much more likely that it is an individual and so, to quote Ben Wilson, if so, Kushim is the very first person in history whose name we know.
- [41:39]
Tom Holland
Crikey.
- [41:40]
Nadia Yada
And he's an accountant. So any accountants out there listening to this, you know, pat yourselves on the.
- [41:44]
Tom Holland
Back to give people a sense of just how exciting and fun packed the Rest is? History Club is. We have a lot of accountants in the Rest is History Club, Tax specialists and whatnot.
- [41:55]
Nadia Yada
I hope they will enjoy that.
- [41:56]
Tom Holland
They'd love all this. They're all over this. Yeah.
- [41:58]
Nadia Yada
But now a slightly darker perspective on the role played by accountants in the emergence of urbanization, because I said that there are these two innovations. The other one is what you can only really describe as the mass exploitation of labor.
- [42:11]
Tom Holland
So we're talking in a word, slavery.
- [42:13]
Nadia Yada
Well, to be discussed. Yes, there is definitely slavery by this point. And we know this from another receipt that's written maybe a couple of generations after Kushim wrote that very first receipt. And it's on a tablet and it's a record of ownership. And the owner is a man called Gal Sal.
- [42:31]
Tom Holland
Crazy name. Crazy guy.
- [42:33]
Nadia Yada
Well, but the name of his male slave is even crazier. It's NPAP X, which, I mean, it's kind of like a rapper, isn't it?
- [42:39]
Tom Holland
This is something from the future.
- [42:40]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, npx. And there's a female slave called Suk Algier. And this is the second. You know, these are the second group of people named in history, and two of them are slaves. And it demonstrates how writing and urbanism and civilization coexists with slavery right from the beginning. And the reason that I said it's not just slavery, it's much broader than that. It's about the exploitation of what you might call the working classes more generally.
- [43:16]
Tom Holland
Right.
- [43:16]
Nadia Yada
And it reflects the fact, essentially, it seems impossible to have a system of living as complex and vast as a city without having people who are exploited by the rich to do the dirty jobs. And they might be slaves. They might be, you know, people from a particular caste. They might be serfs, they might be oppressed laborers, but right from the beginning, they are there. And Al Ghaze sums this up brilliantly and very sinisterly. So he writes, early Near Eastern villagers domesticated plants and animals. Uruk's urban institutions, in turn, domesticated humans.
- [43:54]
Tom Holland
So would these be people seized in wars? Yeah, maybe, for example, you know, like the people in Tenochtitlan and the Aztec Empire. Would these be people captured in great raids or in kind of, I don't know, ritualistic campaigns or something, and then brought back to work on the land and to work and doing all the dirty jobs, do you think?
- [44:11]
Nadia Yada
Definitely. By the end of the fourth millennium you were starting to get images on seals in Uruk that do show kind of prisoners tethered, their hands bound up, guarded by armed soldiers, by armed warriors. But there are also native born slaves as well. And again, to quote Al Ghaze, you get foreign and native born captives used as laborers and they are described by the bureaucrats, by the accountants, with age and sex categories identical to those used to describe state owned herded animals, including various types of cattle and pigs. So you're getting humans as commodities, you know, that are on a level with livestock and in fact not just livestock, but commodities more generally. So in all the various texts that we have from Uruk, barley is the commodity that gets the most mentions 496but the commodity that comes after that is female slaves.
- [45:10]
Tom Holland
Really.
- [45:10]
Nadia Yada
And you get 388 mentions of them.
- [45:13]
Tom Holland
That's a pretty grim story, isn't it?
- [45:14]
Nadia Yada
And you might wonder why, particularly female slaves. And I think the answer to that is the importance of the textile industry, which again is such a comparison with the industrial revolution in Britain that the textile industry is massive in Uruk. So it's no longer really flax that they're using, they're using wool by now taken from the sheep, and they need female slaves to do it. Weaving, the manufacture of commodities is seen in Mesopotamia stereotypically as the role that is played by women. And if you're going to do it on a vast scale, then effectively, it seems from the evidence, the people of Uruk felt that they needed slaves to do it. So yeah, kind of grim.
- [45:52]
Tom Holland
So right from the start about urbanism, the city civilization has this kind of dark and terrifying side. So if you're a sort of pessimistic person about human nature, as I am, you won't be very surprised by this because someone aren't right in saying the pictures on the seals, they show prisoners cowering and people surrounded by guards and stuff like that, which is in a way what you would expect. There is a sort of celebration of power and domination and oppression. I mean that's. What other words can you use?
- [46:17]
Nadia Yada
Yes, but the development of a further kind of worrying trend, which is of course that by this time, so the end of the fourth millennium, when you're starting to get the evidence of transportation of captives to Uruk, you are also starting to see that the people of Uruk are no longer the single city anymore, that rivals are starting to grow. And in Due course, you know, Akad will be one of them.
- [46:41]
Tom Holland
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Nadia Yada
So these great city walls are built around 3000 BC, and this seems to kind of indicate the fact that by this point, Uruk is coming under threat from rivals. And Uruk survives, you know, another 700 years after that. But when Sargon turns up in around 2300, he destroys the walls, levels them to the ground. And by that point, the Ayana, the great temple to Inanna, had already been leveled for reasons that nobody knows, you know, why this had happened. It seemed to have been for internal reasons, but we don't know why. And with the conquest by Sargon, Uruk, basically its ancient glory, its ancient supremacy, is lost forever. It remains a significant place, but the memory of its status as having been the first city is forgotten. The Mesopotamians don't remember Uruk as being the very first city. But having said that, not everything about Uruk's ancient glory is forgotten. So I'll read you lines from a poem written about Uruk. One square mile of city, one square mile of gardens, one square mile of clay pits. A half square mile of Inanna's dwelling. Three and a half square miles is the measure of Uruk. And those are lines from Gilgamesh.
- [47:54]
Tom Holland
Oh, Gilgamesh. I wondered if Gilgamesh might pitch up.
- [47:56]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, by miles. The most famous of Mesopotamian poems in a great work, great epic, we have it in many different versions. And Gilgamesh doubly derives from Uruk. So, first of all, he seems to have been a real person. He seems to have been a king who lived maybe around 2900. And the fact that you are now having kind of big men, big bosses, the Lugal, they're called the big man. Right, so like Mayor Daly.
- [48:20]
Tom Holland
Mayor Daly of Mesopotamia.
- [48:22]
Nadia Yada
Yeah, yeah. So that's who Gilgamesh was. But the other way in which Gilgamesh could not have been written without Uruk is, of course, the fact that it is being written, that writing has been developed. And so what had been used for accountancy is now being used to write poetry and so on.
- [48:36]
Tom Holland
The accountant's tool has become the poet's tool, Tom.
- [48:39]
Nadia Yada
Exactly. So it's not all bad. And the other thing that Gilgamesh does for the Mesopotamians into the age of Babylon and so on, is that it preserves the association of Uruk with Inanna, because Gilgamesh in the poem is often cast as the particular servant of Inanna. And in fact, in the very earliest version of the poem, he comes to the rescue of Inanna's sacred tree, which is being menaced by a sinister bird. So that's what Gilgamesh does originally we.
- [49:05]
Tom Holland
Do like a sinister bird.
- [49:07]
Nadia Yada
You know, we've talked about how the gifts of urbanism are dark ones, that it imposes on humanity a new way of living, which you might think maybe we'd have been better off carrying on as hunter gatherers or whatever.
- [49:21]
Tom Holland
I don't think so.
- [49:22]
Nadia Yada
But Inanna, right the way up to, I don't know, you know, the age of the Persians or the Greeks or the Romans, is remembered as the goddess of pleasure. So she's not just the goddess of the arts, of civilization, but of everything that makes a city fun. So Uruk is celebrated as a place of festivals, of singing and dancing, and I'll just finish by quoting from Gwendolyn, like, on this aspect of Uruk, the role that Inanna plays in her mythology. Inanna, Gwendolyn Light writes, stands for the erotic potential of city life, which is set apart from the strict social control of the tribal community or the village. She frequents the taverns and ale houses where men could meet single women, and she is said to prowl the streets of Kulab in search of sexual adventure. Copulation in the streets was apparently a normal and joyful event, and young people sleeping in their own chambers is singled out in a late poem as a most worrying state of affairs. And so I guess you could say of Uruk that maybe there are worse things to be remembered for.
- [50:25]
Tom Holland
Brilliant. Brilliant, Tom. So that was an absolute tour de force and we're in Manhattan and outside our windows of our hotel at this very moment, people may be performing in.
- [50:36]
Nadia Yada
A similar way in the streets.
- [50:38]
Tom Holland
So I think we should head out and investigate, Tom. And on that bombshell, we'll leave the rest of you to contemplate city life. Thank you very much and goodbye.
- [50:45]
Nadia Yada
Bye. Bye.
- [50:56]
Dominic Sandbrook
Now, Tom, we have something unbelievably exciting to share with our listeners, don't we?
- [51:02]
Nadia Yada
Absolutely we do, Dominic. It's that time of year again when you've got to find that perfect gift for the loved one in your life. And we are thrilled to help you with that challenge. We are announcing the launch of the Rest Is History merchandise. Yes, you can now own a piece of history, literally. We've literally got shirts, mugs, phone cases, notebooks, so much just in time for Christmas.
- [51:32]
Dominic Sandbrook
Unbelievable scenes, Tom. Because these aren't just any shirts and mugs, Tom. These are exclusive Rest Is History designs and they have been designed specifically to outdo the Rory and Alastair T shirts that our friends on the Rest is Politics team have been flogging on their tour of England.
- [51:53]
Tom Holland
That they've done.
- [51:53]
Nadia Yada
That's right, Dominic. History will always trump politics. And our new merch truly is the perfect gift for any history fan, whether they're a friend of the show or, dare we say, someone who's not yet a friend of the show.
- [52:07]
Dominic Sandbrook
Yeah, I mean, this is an unbelievably cunning wheeze, isn't it?
- [52:10]
Nadia Yada
Really is.
- [52:10]
Dominic Sandbrook
Because if you're a loyal friend of the show, you can buy a T shirt that proudly declares your allegiance. And if you still need convincing, you.
- [52:18]
Tom Holland
Know who you are, then you can.
- [52:19]
Dominic Sandbrook
Buy a not a friend of the show version as well.
- [52:22]
Nadia Yada
So you can make your point with a T shirt or a hoodie.
- [52:25]
Tom Holland
It is the perfect icebreaker at parties.
- [52:28]
Dominic Sandbrook
What's this you say you don't know?
- [52:30]
Tom Holland
The rest is history.
- [52:31]
Dominic Sandbrook
Well, let me tell you.
- [52:32]
Tom Holland
And you will have the perfect shirt while you talk to people about General Gordon or pigeons or the Kaiser or whatever it might be.
- [52:40]
Dominic Sandbrook
So the possibilities are endless.
- [52:42]
Nadia Yada
And Dominic, there's lots more. There are sacral mugs, so that's brilliant. And maybe you're an Athelstan. You are catered for as well. Lots of Athelstan stuff. So truly, it's beyond a dream gift, isn't it?
- [52:54]
Dominic Sandbrook
People, Tom, have never had it so good.
- [52:57]
Tom Holland
And in fact, if you're a club.
- [52:58]
Dominic Sandbrook
Member, there is a special discount code that will come in the newsletter for members. And if you order before the 1st of December, then you'll get this amazing discount and everything would be brilliant.
- [53:09]
Nadia Yada
So basically, this is going to be the best Christmas ever. So what you need to do is head over to www. Goalhanger.shop, grab your rest is History gear and make sure you order before the 1st of December if you're a club member to get that discount.
- [53:23]
Dominic Sandbrook
Yeah, if you want to outdo your friends, especially people who listen to other.
- [53:26]
Tom Holland
Goal Hanger podcasts like the Rest is.
- [53:28]
Dominic Sandbrook
Politics, this is absolutely the way to do it. So remember to head to ww.goalhanger shop to get your merch.
- [53:38]
Nadia Yada
And remember, club members order before 1 December to take advantage of that exclusive discount. And we'll be sharing on social media our favorite pictures of you in your restless history merch. So send these in over Christmas morning.
- [53:52]
Dominic Sandbrook
And remember that is www.goalhanger shop.