The Rest Is History: Joan of Arc—For Fear of the Flames (Part 4)

Podcast: The Rest Is History
Hosts: Tom Holland & Dominic Sandbrook
Episode: 635
Date: January 15, 2026
Theme: The climactic trial, abjuration, execution, and immediate legacy of Joan of Arc.

Episode Overview

In the thrilling conclusion to their Joan of Arc series, Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook dissect the drama, politics, and psychology surrounding Joan’s imprisonment, trial, recantation, execution, and posthumous rehabilitation. With their trademark mixture of sharp wit and deep scholarship, the hosts unravel how Joan’s fate was not only a product of English schemes but also of French politics and ecclesiastical procedure. This episode explores the legal intricacies of Joan’s trial, her extraordinary responses under interrogation, her moment of recantation and reversal, and her eventual burning at the stake. The hosts then follow the ripple effects of her death through the ultimate French victory in the Hundred Years’ War and her transformation into a national icon.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Two Kings, One Crown

• Henry VI’s Arrival and Inadequacy

  • Dominic reads a proclamation of January 1431 accusing Joan of witchcraft, issued by and in the name of the child King Henry VI of England and France.
  • Tom depicts Henry VI as "one of the great losers of English history," noting that his failure to inspire support upon arriving in Rouen as a nine-year-old (02:50).
  • The English needed a coronation for him, but Reims was controlled by the French. Paris was too dangerous, leaving Henry "stuck in Rouen" during a bleak winter (04:27–05:29).

• The Rival: Charles VII’s Psychological Gain

  • Charles VII, crowned in Reims with Joan's help, scores a powerful psychological victory among the French populace (03:46–04:27).
  • The English shift tactics toward undermining Charles’s legitimacy by attacking Joan as a witch to delegitimize his coronation (05:29–06:15).

2. Joan’s Captivity and the Nature of Her Trial

• Conditions and Security

  • Joan arrives in Rouen (23 Dec 1430), under the formidable supervision of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick (06:15–07:30).
  • Imprisoned in a grim, sparsely lit cell, shackled, and guarded by English soldiers. She’s cut off from legal counsel (07:30–08:51).

• Legal & Ecclesiastical Machinery

  • The English and their French Burgundian allies forward Joan to Bishop Pierre Cauchon for an ecclesiastical inquisition, not a secular trial (09:19–10:12).
  • The prosecution isn’t a mere kangaroo court; Cauchon meticulously follows procedural norms to avoid international condemnation and ensure the trial’s verdict stands scrutiny (13:13–14:28).

Notable Insight:

"Over the course of the trial, 131 lawyers, theologians, priests, abbots end up participating in it... all but eight of these 131 figures are French."
— Tom Holland, (15:07–15:39)

3. Charges Against Joan: Heresy, Cross-Dressing, and Visions

• Indictment Details

  • The two focal points: Joan’s claim to divine revelation and her persistent wearing of male clothing, an act "directly contrary to biblical injunctions" (12:43).

• Preparation and Investigation

  • The court compiles exhaustive evidence, including dispatching investigators to her home village and examining her viriginity (14:28–14:55).

• Composition of the Court

  • The vast majority of judges and assessors are French, loyal to the English regime through allegiance to the Treaty of Troyes (15:07–15:57).

4. Joan Under Interrogation: Defiance and Dazzling Conviction

• Start of the Trial: Joan’s Bearing and Strategy
  • Joan, a teenage illiterate peasant, faces relentless, disorienting questioning. Despite intimidation, she displays extraordinary self-possession (16:29–19:03).

Memorable Moment & Quote:

"She is not a scholar from the University of Paris... she has the vocabulary, she has the modes of expression of a peasant, a very smart, intelligent, often sassy peasant."
— Tom Holland, (18:08)

• The ‘Voices’ and Secrets

  • Joan initially refuses to reveal details of her divine voices, asserting their confidentiality even under threat of death:

    “I am not allowed to talk about them, even were it necessary to cut off my head.” (19:22)

  • Over subsequent sessions, she shares more, revealing the voices are St. Catherine, St. Margaret, and St. Michael—patron saints with potent significance (23:12–23:53).

• Unique Nature of Joan’s Visions

  • Joan’s experiences contrast with mystical saints; her voices are "matter-of-fact... as real to her as her parents" (26:09–27:28).

Notable Exchange:

“Did St. Margaret speak English?"
"She LAUGHS... She's not on the side of the English."
— Tom Holland, quoting trial transcript (27:19)

• Relentless Interrogations and ‘The Sign’
  • Under pressure, Joan elaborates on the sign she gave Charles VII: a vision of an angel presenting a golden crown—greeted by incredulity and disdain from her inquisitors (30:01–31:39).

5. Condemnation, Abjuration, and Execution

• Final Charges and Ultimatum

  • On 23 May 1431, 12 charges are presented, including her persisting in male attire and her supposed suicide attempt (32:20–33:18).
  • Joan, at first, refuses to recant:

    “For my words and deeds mentioned in this trial, I refer to them and I wish to stand by them.” (33:18)

• The Surprise Recantation: ‘For Fear of the Fire’

  • At the brink of execution, Joan unexpectedly abjures her visions and submits to the Church (36:02–36:45).
  • She’s sentenced to “perpetual imprisonment with the bread of sorrow and the water of affliction" (38:51).

Memorable Moment:

“I did it for fear of the fire.”
— Joan (42:05–43:19)

• Return to Defiance and Death
  • Days later, Joan resumes male dress, claims the voices have returned, and is judged a relapsed heretic. She’s handed over for execution.
  • On 30 May 1431, Joan is burned at the stake, crying out “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus” as she dies (45:53–48:14).

Powerful Scene:

"Her lips had been moving in silent prayer throughout. And then people in the crowd hear her cry out through the smoke, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus."
— Tom Holland, (47:53)

6. Immediate and Long-Term Legacy

• Initial Silence and the Winding Path to Rehabilitation
  • Charles VII does not immediately celebrate Joan as a martyr, instead distancing himself due to her official condemnation as a heretic (48:14–48:54).
  • Over time, as the fortunes of war turn and the French reclaim Paris and Normandy, sentiment and necessity shift.

Key Turning Point:

"Finally, Charles does speak her name.... He says, a long time ago, Jeanne La Pucelle was taken and captured by our ancient enemies..."
— Tom Holland, (51:55–52:12)

• Official Retrial and Exoneration
  • Nineteen years later, Joan’s trial is officially reviewed. In July 1456, the judges declare her original conviction void, calling it “corruptly, deceitfully, slanderously, fraudulently and maliciously” delivered (55:08–55:52).
  • Joan is posthumously cleared, ensuring her place as a French heroine.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Henry VI’s personality:

  “Here he is, he’s nine years old, he’s arrived in Rouen and he does not impress people at all because the crowds have turned out to cheer him and all he does is complain that they're making too much noise.”
  — Tom Holland, (02:50)

• On the breadth of Joan’s trial:

  “Over the course of the trial, 131 lawyers, theologians, priests, abbots end up participating in it… all but eight of these 131 figures are French."
  — Tom Holland, (15:07)

• Joan’s self-assertion:

  “I am not allowed to talk about them, even were it necessary to cut off my head.”
  — Joan, quoted by Tom Holland, (19:22)

• Her final, heartbreaking admission:

  “I did it for fear of the fire.”
  — Joan, (43:19)

• The execution scene:

  "Her lips had been moving in silent prayer throughout. And then people in the crowd hear her cry out through the smoke, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus."
  — Tom Holland, (47:53)

• On Joan’s strange vision for Charles VII:

  “...An angel had appeared and had brought the dauphin a crown of purest gold… The theologians listening to this, they just say, this is mad. This is ridiculous.”
  — Tom Holland, (30:38–31:36)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Intro & Henry VI’s Arrival: 00:40–05:29
• Political context & English strategy: 05:29–06:15
• Joan’s capture & imprisonment: 06:15–08:51
• Legal structure of the trial: 08:51–15:57
• First day of trial & interrogation dynamics: 16:29–19:03
• Joan’s handling of her “voices”: 19:03–24:36
• Joan’s recantation at the scaffold: 36:02–36:45
• Joan’s reversal and condemnation: 41:33–43:34
• Execution scene: 45:52–48:14
• French victory & retrial: 48:14–55:52

Episode’s Tone and Approach

Tom and Dominic blend empathy for Joan with their usual lively banter and accessible scholarship, alternating between gripping, cinematic narration and tongue-in-cheek asides. The tragedy and drama are front-and-center but with frequent moments of scholarly reflection, irony, and even humor—especially regarding the oddities of history, the personalities on all sides, and the quirks of canon law.

Closing and Dedication

After thoroughly chronicling Joan’s trial and its aftermath, the hosts pay tribute to their long-serving producer Theo Young Smith in a segment filled with affectionate and irreverent humor, acknowledging behind-the-scenes contributions to the podcast’s success (57:01–59:28).

Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a masterclass in historical storytelling, capturing not only the judicial and political forces that condemned Joan of Arc, but also her remarkable personal courage—and the deep currents that made her into a potent and enduring symbol for France and beyond. Accessible, emotionally resonant, and deeply researched, it’s an essential listen for anyone interested in the interplay of faith, politics, and memory at one of history’s greatest turning points.