The Rest Is History — “The Beatles: The Band that Changed the World” with Conan O’Brien (Part 1)

Podcast: The Rest Is History
Hosts: Tom Holland (Dominic Sandbrook is absent this episode)
Guest: Conan O’Brien
Location: Abbey Road Studios
Date: December 3, 2025
Episode Context: Tom Holland is joined by Conan O’Brien for an in-depth discussion about The Beatles: their rise, their historical and cultural significance, and why their music endures. Regular host Dominic Sandbrook, notably a Beatles skeptic, is absent.

Episode Overview

In this Beatles-dedicated episode, Tom Holland and Conan O’Brien trace the band’s origins and influence, examining how The Beatles became not just musical icons but seismic historical figures. They discuss the unique circumstances that created the band, key individuals who shaped their journey, the postwar context in Britain and Europe, and The Beatles' pivotal role in the social changes of the 1960s. Conan shares vivid personal anecdotes of meeting members of The Beatles and reflects on the group’s enduring legacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the Beatles Matter — A History Perspective

• Tom and Conan set the stage by framing The Beatles as “lightning rods” for the revolutionary 1960s, shaping modern culture as profoundly as any historical force.
• Conan: “The Beatles are a complete break with what happened before. They are singer-songwriters, they wrote their own music... They're as relevant today as they were in 1964.” [09:02]
• The 1960s are likened to a “second Reformation” with The Beatles as both symbols and vectors of change. [10:34]

2. Formative Influences: Family, War, and American Music

• Beatles’ roots reach back to wartime and prewar England, both culturally and physically (Liverpool’s bombed-out landscape).
• Exposure to American records from Liverpool's seaport played a crucial role.
  • “The port… [meant] records are being brought over in ships. And so… the Beatles can access them.” (Tom) [13:00]
• The accidental “Masonic handshake” of John and Paul bonding over American doo-wop at a church fete, highlighting access to secret “cool” knowledge. [14:00]

3. Hamburg and the Band’s Crucible

• The Beatles' residency in Hamburg is described as their true crucible—playing marathon sets, living in squalid conditions, and networking with avant-garde German artists.
• Conan notes the influence of German bohemians and the anti-Nazi cultural legacy of postwar Hamburg, with Astrid Kirchherr giving them their distinctive haircuts. [17:44]
• “John said this: Hamburg made them... They get honed into a diamond.” (Conan) [18:36]

4. Early Group Dynamics: Members, Image, and Tension

• Formation details: Paul's recruitment of George, Stu Sutcliffe’s role as cool-looking artist bassist, Pete Best's eventual ousting.
• Focus on the importance of image as early as Hamburg, with Conan asserting: “Yes, the music's important but... the image is gonna work.” [15:59]
• The arrival of Ringo, considered transformative by both Tom and Conan. On Ringo: “His feel... he's minimal... the best possible drummer for the Beatles.” (Conan) [31:11]

5. Brian Epstein & George Martin: The Lucky Breaks

• The necessity of incredible luck (and the right middle-class connections) for their breakthrough.
• Brian Epstein is motivated not by commercial calculation but a genuine adoration of the group: “He’s someone who really loves them for them... That doesn't happen [in music].” (Conan) [25:19]
• The critical intervention of George Martin, the comedy show producer turned innovative musical collaborator.

6. Exploding into the Mainstream: Edginess within Boundaries

• The Beatles’ early singles, rise through Liverpool’s scene, and the transformative moment with “Please Please Me”.
• Discussion of the group’s careful balancing act: just edgy enough to excite, but polished enough for mainstream acceptance (e.g., the Royal Variety Show quip).
  • On John’s legendary line: “For our last number… the people in the cheaper seats clap your hands, the rest of you if you just rattle your jewelry.” (Tom) [40:24]
• The significance of their working-class accents and background—“They never try to change it.” (Conan) [41:00]

7. America: Timing, Tragedy, and Triumph

• America in post-Kennedy shock provides fertile ground for “Beatlemania.” The group times their US trip perfectly, landing as stars thanks to “I Want to Hold Your Hand” charting at #1.
• Ed Sullivan’s chance stopover—serendipity or fate?
• Reflections on the massive cultural and racial importance of the Beatles’ refusal to play to segregated audiences, and their vocal support of Black artists.
  • “They talk about Smokey Robinson… the Supremes… black musicians… that’s what they love.” (Conan) [47:12]

8. The “Jesus Controversy” and Social Change

• John’s “we’re more popular than Jesus now” remark, ignored in the UK, becomes an American flashpoint—especially in the Bible Belt.
• Conan likens the delayed backlash to a proto-viral moment: “Before the Internet, but it’s an Internet moment.” [50:15]
• The episode ends with the unresolved question: Will the controversy spell the end for the Beatles?

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Conan O’Brien on meeting George Harrison:
  “I was lucky enough to meet three of the four Beatles... George apologized initially ‘cause he had been drinking... he said, ‘I’m sorry, I’m pissed as a newt.’” [05:36]

• On the Beatles’ historical importance:
  “In all kinds of ways, in the 21st century, we’re living in the aftermath of what happened in the 60s.” (Tom) [10:05]

• On postwar Liverpool:
  “Liverpool is a city that is cratered with kind of bomb damage... the Beatles are born in the war years.” (Tom) [14:49]

• On their synergy and luck:
  “It’s some kind of hobbit tale, where they meet the exact right person at the exact right time.” (Conan, describing Brian Epstein and George Martin's roles) [26:09]

• On making their first #1:
  “Gentlemen, you’ve just made your first number one.” (George Martin, after “Please Please Me”; recounted by Tom) [33:18]

• On their appeal to teenage girls:
  “For the first time teenage girls have spending money and leisure time... riding this wave of growing material prosperity.” (Tom) [36:02]

• On the Beatles’ principles in America:
  “They are not going to bend the knee... there are things they care about... And then almost more important is [when] people ask what groups do they like, they list all these black groups.” (Conan) [46:56]

• On John’s “Jesus” quote and its impact:
  “It actually takes quite a while for it to finally surface and find the right person to hate it.” (Conan, on the drawn-out controversy) [50:15]

Timeline & Major Segments

• [05:15–07:00] Conan’s stories meeting the Beatles; George Harrison at SNL and Paul McCartney’s outlandish guitar skills.
• [09:00–10:51] Making the historical case for the Beatles’ significance.
• [13:00–15:30] The Beatles’ cultural roots: American music, Liverpool’s war-torn landscape.
• [16:14–18:36] Hamburg’s role in shaping the band: squalor, amphetamines, bohemian influence, and the anti-Nazi cultural connection.
• [22:46–25:19] Brian Epstein’s arrival and the band’s middle-class breakthrough; introduction to George Martin.
• [29:28–31:09] Transition from Pete Best to Ringo and Ringo’s drumming legacy.
• [32:12–35:22] The Beatles’ first singles, evolution to songwriting, and the leap past cover bands.
• [36:02–37:38] Beatlemania, teenage culture, and the explosion of female fandom.
• [41:27–43:30] Breaking into America, the context of JFK’s assassination and cultural readiness.
• [46:56–48:53] Civil rights, Black influence, and the Beatles taking stands on social issues.
• [48:53–51:37] The “Jesus” remark, worldwide reaction, and the looming question of the band’s future.

Summary Tone & Language

The tone is enthusiastic and conversational, blending Tom Holland’s historical rigor with Conan’s humor, personal anecdotes, and irresistible fandom. Insights are grounded in both cultural analysis and vivid stories, making the discussion accessible, entertaining, and substantial.

For the Next Episode

The episode ends on a cliffhanger—will the “Jesus” controversy derail the Beatles' career, or do they chart an even bigger cultural revolution? Listeners are invited to continue the story in Part 2, with early access available to club members.

For fans and newcomers alike, this episode offers a lively, insightful, and personally resonant journey through the formative years of the world’s most influential band.