179. Trump’s Iran Talks Are Breaking Down - Who’s in Charge?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Politics: US – Episode 179

Title: Trump’s Iran Talks Are Breaking Down – Who’s in Charge?
Date: April 20, 2026
Hosts: Anthony Scaramucci (The Mooch) and Katty Kay

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Overview

In this episode, Anthony Scaramucci and Katty Kay dissect the mounting chaos surrounding President Trump’s Iran policy, the mysterious breakdown of talks in Islamabad, and the deepening confusion about who holds power within both the U.S. and Iranian governments. They delve into the dysfunction of Trump’s current cabinet, heated internal battles in Washington, and the growing influence of China and Russia amidst American discord, all set against the backdrop of ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of Iran Talks: Chaos and Uncertainty

[02:04–04:41]

• Katty opens by summarizing the confusion around the U.S.–Iran negotiations: Trump’s communications contradict themselves, the U.S. delegation is in flux, and the identity of Iranian negotiators is unclear.
  • “The Americans are arriving, the Iranians are still saying they're not taking part...But even if the Iranians arrive...it's not clear that the people that are going to be sent to Islamabad are the people that actually represent the power center back in Tehran.” – Katty Kay [02:15]
• Trump flip-flopping on including JD Vance in negotiations, Iran’s distrust of alternate U.S. delegates, and speculation that Trump may be “pinning failure of talks on him [Vance] for political reasons.” – Katty Kay [03:49]

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2. Inside the White House: Disorganization and Factionalism

[04:49–09:51]

• Anthony describes deep infighting among Trump's team and "rat effing" (backstabbing) in the White House and Pentagon.
  • “They're completely disorganized. They're fighting like dogs. They're backstabbing each other.” – Anthony [08:40]
• Multiple U.S. strategic options considered:
  • General blockade of Iranian oil [05:49]
  • Deployment of up to 500,000 ground troops (deemed unlikely but actively discussed within the Pentagon) [06:20]
  • Use of bunker buster bombs on nuclear facilities [07:57]
  • Anthony speculates that only Chinese intervention could unlock progress, proposing Trump’s prospective summit with Xi as a linchpin event [08:51]
• Katty cautions that while “CENTCOM is...locked and loaded,” Trump is averse to direct military engagement [11:59]

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3. Comparing the Past and Present: Negotiation Complexity

[09:51–12:42]

• Katty compares the current talks to the JCPOA era, noting the clarity of Obama/Khamenei authorized negotiators versus today’s opaque power structures.
  • “It's pretty clear that the IRGC is now in control in Iran...The political leadership that did the last round of negotiations is not who's in control in Iran at the moment.” – Katty Kay [10:33]
• Current U.S.-Iran diplomatic window seen as artificially compressed and multilayered due to wartime urgency.

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4. Strategic Outlook: Military Power, Chinese Mediation, and Global Standing

[12:46–24:53]

• Debate over whether Trump is in a stronger or weaker position with China after the Iran conflict.
  • Anthony argues U.S. military prowess has “scared the daylights out of the Chinese.” [15:45]
  • Katty counters that geostrategically, the U.S. has suffered: “America's former major partners in the world all now think that China is a more reliable partner than the United States.” [18:33]
• Both hosts agree U.S. military dominance is clear but see different implications for global influence and alliances.
• Anthony lays out a five-point “Kissinger-esque” proposal for involving China as co-guarantor of regional security and Iran’s nuclear program [14:39, 20:31]
• Katty expresses skepticism that the Trump team can deliver on such grand strategy, “I'm not sure that this team is able to think of a strategy beyond the next three hours.” [23:56]

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5. Trump's Cabinet: Loyalty over Competence

[28:03–39:23]

• Katty reviews an Atlantic article detailing questionable behavior by FBI head Kash Patel, notes alarm over the appointment of unqualified loyalists like Pete Hegseth (Defense) and Tulsi Gabbard (DNI).
  • “They have their jobs because of their loyalty to Donald Trump.” – Katty Kay [30:17]
• Reports of Patel’s intoxication, requiring breaching equipment to access him, are discussed as emblematic of dysfunction and risk in national security roles [31:17–32:10]
• Cabinet appointments emphasize image and TV readiness (esp. Hegseth), sometimes over actual expertise.
  • “What's alarming is that we are at war at a time where manicuring is more important than competence.” – Katty Kay [36:47]
• Discussion of 'looks maxing' and 'mogging,' with Pete Hegseth reportedly concerned about his physical portrayal and public image.

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6. Tulsi Gabbard: Strategic Silence and Maneuvering

[40:10–42:41]

• Anthony surprises Katty by praising Tulsi Gabbard’s discretion and ability to “stay in the game,” despite her past being critical of wars like the current one.
  • “Tulsi knows...that the election wasn't rigged. She knows that there was no threat from Iran from an intelligence point of view...Tulsi also has kept her job because she knows Katie K. in silence.” – Anthony [40:45]
• Katty points out that Gabbard has pandered to Trump by chasing election conspiracy narratives as DNI, but has avoided overt criticism of the Iran war to preserve her position.

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7. Cultural Footnotes and Cabinet Satire

[35:24–39:40]

• References to the White House’s obsession with appearance (for both men and women), with mention of recent media reporting.
• Satirical banter about cabinet members being picked for their Fox News appeal more than merit, e.g., Pete Hegseth’s “Christian crusade” framing of the Iran war [37:55].
• Introduction of Gen Z "manosphere" terms like 'looks maxing' and 'mogging,' lampooning the current Pentagon culture.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "So everything's on the table. They're completely disorganized. They're fighting like dogs. They're backstabbing each other...There's another word that they use in Washington called rat effing. I'm not gonna say the last part of the word, but they're rat effing each other inside the White House and the Pentagon."
  – Anthony [08:40]

• "What is clear is that Donald Trump really doesn't want this to happen. And the Iranians know that neither side wants a resumption of military activity, but Donald Trump in particular doesn't want a resumption of military activity."
  – Katty Kay [12:35]

• "The problem with that scenario is it's insane. That's what they thought was going to happen when they did this bombing...Short of what you're saying. 500,000 Americans go in there."
  – Katty Kay [13:38]

• On cabinet selection:
  "They have their jobs because of their loyalty to Donald Trump...They do not have their jobs because of past experience, which qualifies them to do their jobs."
  – Katty Kay [30:17]

• "What's alarming is that we are at war at a time where manicuring is more important than competence."
  – Katty Kay [36:47]

• “Tulsi knows. She knows that the election wasn't rigged. She knows that there was no threat from Iran from an intelligence point of view…Tulsi also has kept her job because she knows...in silence.”
  – Anthony [40:45]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:18 – Episode starts after ad break, Katty returns from Utah trip.
• 02:04–04:41 – Confusion over Iran negotiations, delegations, and motivations.
• 04:49–09:51 – Anthony's Pentagon sources: strategic options, chaos at the top.
• 12:46–15:19 – Pentagon “Machiavellian” thinking, global oil control, and China’s role.
• 15:34–19:33 – Debate: U.S. position vis-à-vis China and allied trust.
• 28:03–34:38 – Cabinet competency: Kash Patel, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard.
• 35:24–39:40 – Looks and image obsession in Trump administration leadership.
• 40:10–42:41 – Tulsi Gabbard’s silent strategy discussed.

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Episode Tone

Wry, sharp, and often exasperated, especially from Katty who returns “refreshed” and more pointed in her critiques. Anthony alternates between hard-nosed Washington gossip, strategic speculation, and dry humor. Both hosts blend serious geopolitical analysis with biting satire and cultural criticism, particularly of Trump’s governing style and personnel choices.

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Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid picture of a U.S. government in turmoil, torn between reckless hawkish impulses and a lack of strategic clarity. Trump’s personal fixations and loyalty-driven appointments are shown to be undermining the machinery of state at a critical geopolitical moment—while China and Russia maneuver to fill the vacuum. The hosts leave listeners with a sense of mounting danger, heightened by both policy drift and the comedic absurdity of the current White House inner circle.

Transcript

[Anthony]

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[Katty K]

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[Anthony]

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[Katty K]

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[Anthony]

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[Katty K]

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[Anthony]

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[Katty K]

Welcome to the Rest is politics Us with me Katie K. Katty K Camper

[Caddy]

Cad K welcome back.

[Katty K]

Are you like, super impressed?

[Caddy]

I am super impressed that you could

[Anthony]

be in a camper somewhere in Utah where my wife and I's idea of camping is the Four Seasons or the Em and Gary yacht.

[Caddy]

Those are my ways of camping. But that's okay.

[Katty K]

Well, as you know, that is secretly my idea of camping too. However, Tom, my husband, had wanted to do this trip for ages and being the very nice wife that I am, I think I get a lot of brownie points for this.

[Caddy]

You had everything going well on this vacation because there's nobody on your staff that had vacation envy.

[Anthony]

Nobody.

[Caddy]

And you. And you policed your husband.

[Katty K]

It turns out that the great parks of Utah have almost no cell phone reception. So here was my takeaway from last week. A ton of stuff happened and almost nothing changed as we're recording this. Monday, 9:30am I'm just checking my phone because there is breaking news. The President has told the New York Post, which is flashing this out at the moment, that there will be talks. He says we're supposed to have the talks, Trump said, so I would assume at this point nobody's playing games. The delegation, he says, is led by JD Vance Witkoff and Jared Kushner are also part of it. And we know that Islamabad is on a security lockdown. So they assume the talks are happening. But really I think the takeaway from this is that there is an awful lot of confusion because the Americans are arriving, the Iranians are still saying they're not taking part in these talks. They did turn up at the last minute for the last round of talks. So they still could turn up for these talks. But even if the Iranians arrive, Anthony, it's not clear that the people that are going to be sent to Islamabad are the people that actually represent the power center back in Tehran. So how much they'll be able to negotiate because last time around they went, they had the talks, the Americans felt that they had gone very well, the talks with Gallobaaf and then Galloba goes back to Iran, starts getting attacked viciously back at home. The Iranians have the IRGC know that there are corruption issues around Galleba and whether they threatened him or not, we don't know. But he was being attacked back at home for having sold out to the Americans. So I think we're here on Monday. It looks like the Americans are going, we don't know very much else about what's clear on what's gonna come out of these talks at this point. There's a lot of confusion.

[Anthony]

So Katty, Trump said he didn't want Vance there. So what do you think happened?

[Katty K]

Trump announced that Vance wasn't gonna be there. He said for security reasons JD Vance was not gonna go, couldn't send the to Islamabad because my goodness, the security would be too terrible. He was going to send Witkoff and Jared. We know that the Iranians want Vance there. They won't talk to a delegation that is led by Witkoff and Jared because the last time they did that they got bombed halfway through the talks. So they don't trust those two. They've said they want Vance because they know that Vance is the most anti war of the people in the cabinet but also has the ear of the President. So whether this is coming from the Iranian side, that these talks aren't going to happen unless Vance is leading them or whether this is Donald Trump playing some kind of psychodrama with his vice president, pinning failure of talks on him for political reasons is anybody's guess. So where do you think we are on this Monday morning?

[Anthony]

I have prepared for you, Katty K. You don't look like Pete Hegseth. And since you're just back from vacation, we don't have to role play today.

[Katty K]

Okay.

[Anthony]

But I have prepared for you what I think is going on based on conversations with people at The Department of Defense, some people inside of the Trump administration, and then what I would call the MAGA mafia, where, believe it or not, even some of those podcasters that he's hitting are still inside the orbit. Right. As an example, Joe Rogan turns up

[Katty K]

in the White House.

[Anthony]

Yeah, he was attacking Trump, but he turned up in the White House and Trump praised him. Despite what anybody might think, he's not a dummy. Trump. He knows that he needs Rogan. He knows that he. He's got to try to get Rogan back on side for a lot of different reasons.

[Katty K]

And I think he knows this isn't

[Anthony]

going well, and I think he knows that Rogan has always fashioned himself as an independent. You know, the reason why he hits Marjorie Taylor Greene and he hits people like Megyn Kelly, et cetera, is that they were, in his mind, with him the whole way, and now they're against them. You see what I mean? You know, Rogan was never really with him, and he had. He had a negotiation to get on his show. And by the way, Trump did very well on his show, and as he pointed out, it was a good strategy. But now let's go to the Pentagon for a second, because I think this is the big thing, and it's down to three different scenarios. And so the general ideas now are general blockade, targeted interdiction of Iranian oil, so that now you have a blockade of the blockade. That's one angle. There's another angle going on where they actually really are talking about this. American people should know this. They're talking about, you know, ground troops. And it turns out that you can't do this with 100,000 ground troops. You would need 500,000 ground troops, and it would mean you'd have to move people out of the Indo Pak calm situation, away from Taiwan and that area of the. Of the world.

[Katty K]

We know, by the way, that Trump really doesn't want that.

[Anthony]

Right. And you'd also have to institute a draft. Right. So we have to have to go through that scenario, though, because they are talking about it, okay? That's a three to six trillion dollars war, okay? It balloons the national debt. It also puts you in a really tough position with what I would call the global south, because now the global south would be like, okay, the American empire, as the Americans are practicing it, is completely out of control. It should be an economic empire, not a military one. And so what's at issue now is, can you do something to stop this? And I'm going to tell you, in my opinion, you can't do something to stop this.

[Katty K]

You mean you think there is going to be 500,000American troops sent into Iran?

[Anthony]

No, I don't. I'm talking about. You can't. You're in a quagmire with them right now.

[Caddy]

Right.

[Anthony]

You could get out of the quagmire by deploying 500,000 troops, have a five year war. I think that would deepen the quagmire. But I'm just letting you know there are people inside the Pentagon that are actually suggesting that. Okay. People have to know that that's on the table. Even if Trump doesn't want that. Then you have the varying degrees of blockades and the varying degrees of additional missile strikes. There's talks now about using almost our entire arsenal of bunker buster bombs, identifying where we think not just enrichment is going on, where anything is related to anything related to their nuclear energy. We just bunker bust or bomb everything in the area and destroy that. There's talk about that. But this last piece, and then I'd like you to get you to react to this, because I think the really only thing that would work here at this moment is Beijing. And just hear me out for a second. I think that Trump is going to go see Xi May 15th or 16th, and I think there has to be a back channel to China where Trump is basically saying, you need energy security. The world needs commercial access to the Strait of Hormuz. This is actually one of your satellite states.

[Caddy]

Okay.

[Anthony]

You know, I've got Venezuela. We're going to do a Venezuela for Iran trade. But I got to get the nuclear facilities out of there because they're too much of a threat to my allies. Moreover, my allies in the Gulf will sell you oil as well. Okay. And I think that's gonna be the situation that unfolds here. I'd like to get your reaction to what I'm saying. So everything's on the table. They're completely disorganized. They're fighting like dogs. They're backstabbing each other. Okay. There's another word that they use in Washington called rat effing. I'm not gonna say the last part of the word, but they're rat effing each other inside the White House and the Pentagon. But the one track that would work here is a further degrading of the nuclear facilities without ending their civilization. And then going to Beijing and seeing if you can get some help from the Chinese on this, which would be good for both countries and ultimately good for the region.

[Katty K]

Okay. So I think there is a lot there. And a lot of that is being discussed. My understanding, and I spoke to somebody who had just got off the phone, a former admiral who had just got off the phone with people in the Central Command who said the most likely scenario at the moment is that some kind of talks happen, whether it's in Pakistan today or later this week, that basically kicks the can down the road and you get some kind of another two week ceasefire during which more talks take place. It's worth reminding people, I looked this up. The original talks that led to the Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA under Barack Obama, was 20 months of direct negotiations between the Iranians and between the Americans. And it was very clear who they were dealing with. The Supreme Leader back then, Khamenei, had given Zarif the permission to do the talks. And when Zarif met with the Americans, Obama's team, and did the negotiations, they knew who they were dealing with and they knew that Zarif was talking for the Iranian government and had the power to talk for the Iranian government. This is a whole lot more complicated today in a much, much shorter timeframe. So it's much more complicated because of the war and it's much more complicated because it's pretty clear that the IRGC is now in control in Iran. The political leadership that did the last round of negotiations is not who's in control in Iran at the moment. They are not the ones with the power in Iran. If they were the ones with power, they would not have announced that the Straits of Hormuz were open. And a few hours later the IRGC struck a couple of tankers going through. So I think that has made the whole situation around negotiations much more difficult. And you can't do it in a few weeks anyway. If you're really trying to negotiate what happens to this enriched uranium, it is going to take months, it's not going to take just a few weeks. So the priority has to be focusing on the Strait of Hormuz. So I think we have this kind of they kick the can down the road for a couple more weeks. I am told that CENTCOM is in the expression of the American military, you've got to love this. Locked and loaded and has all of the targets pinpointed and programmed, ready to go. CENTCOM is saying that they will not attack every bridge and they will not attack every power plant. They won't commit war crimes. They're going to be judicious about what they attack. But the targets are all there. Now, the fact that they're locked and loaded and the fact that they could send in ground troops, as you're hearing, and there are plans, doesn't mean this is going to happen. What is clear is that Donald Trump really doesn't want this to happen. And the Iranians know that neither side wants a resumption of military activity, but Donald Trump in particular doesn't want a resumption of military activity. And I think that makes it less likely that we're going to have a resumption of the bombing campaign. Even if the CENTCOM is ready to

[Anthony]

go, I think there's something else more aggressive going on. So this is back to. There's a great scene in this Bush movie by Oliver stone back in 2010, where Richard Dreyfus, playing Dick Cheney, explains this Machiavellian maneuver that the Americans are trying to control the strait, take out Iraq and then Iran, and then they control the oil for the world. And then, of course, you're this economic superpower, you're this economic imperialist, where if you control the oil, then you can flex on all of your economic competitors and put them down. So there is a school of thought inside the Pentagon that you finish the job, whatever that may be, and you create a secular Iran. The problem with that scenario is you don't really understand the cultures over there,

[Katty K]

because the problem with that scenario is that it's insane. That's what they thought was going to happen when they did this bombing. Trump bought the Mossad's line and Netanyahu's line that he could do this and have regime change and have peace and harmony with Iran. It's not going to happen. Short of what you're saying. 500,000Americans go in there.

[Caddy]

It's like a new version of Katie

[Anthony]

K. Look at you.

[Caddy]

You're refreshed. You're like, you know, the problem with that is it's insane.

[Katty K]

The problem with that is that it is insane.

[Caddy]

Let's go back to the whole thing. Starting a stupid war was insane, okay? The whole thing is insane.

[Anthony]

But, Caddy, I want to go over these, and I want your reaction, okay? Because now I'm sitting with Rubio first day back, so you don't have to role play. Caddy, I'm sitting with Rubio and Hegseth.

[Caddy]

Pete, put the beer down. Put the beer down.

[Anthony]

Focus.

[Caddy]

Pete, come over here.

[Katty K]

Put the mirror down, Pete.

[Anthony]

Okay.

[Caddy]

All right, Pete, I know Trump likes the way you look, but a little less hair gel, but come on over here. Okay? Come over here. Okay, now listen, you with me?

[Anthony]

Here's the five point plan, okay? And this would work. Katt, you gotta go to the Chinese. Xi has already brokered a deal between the Saudis and the Iranians. He wants this position on the world stage, and you give it to him. Because what we have to do, whether we like it or not, is we have to be Henry Kissinger. We don't have to be Don Rumsfeld right now. And what would Henry Kissinger want to do here? He'd want to balance the power. And you go to the Chinese. I'm not saying you're bringing them into the region as much as you're giving them guarantor status. And so step one, you go to them.

[Katty K]

Can I just say one thing about your step one, which we've been talking about for a while on the program, saying that this is what, you know, needs to happen. Answer me this question. At this point, after how, how many weeks of it now is it, this war? Seven weeks? Six weeks of this?

[Doctor]

Six.

[Katty K]

Seven weeks of this war?

[Anthony]

Six and a half weeks? Yep.

[Katty K]

Does Donald Trump go to Xi Jinping in the middle of May in a stronger or a weaker position than he did before this war started?

[Anthony]

Okay, so a little stronger, I believe.

[Katty K]

I don't think so.

[Anthony]

Okay, so let's have that debate. So to me, I think they have scared the daylights out of the Chinese. The Chinese AI systems failed on the battlefield. The Chinese anti missile technology failed. Failed on the battlefield. And I think that the American military technology and the fighting power of the American military has scared the daylights out of these guys. And let me just say something about the Americans. And it's a brutal thing to say. This is a killing force. This is a fighting force. This is a group of people that have been at war since 2001, October, and they've been fighting for 25 years. There's no other military on the ground anywhere in the world that fights like the Americans or has the American military capability. So you disagree with that?

[Katty K]

No, I agree with that. I agree with that.

[Anthony]

So he may be in a weaker position from a public opinion perspective. And he may be. He looks like an imbecile and, you know, he's not wearing the orange makeup properly anymore. And he sounds like a nut job when he's, you know, sending out the tweets about killing civilizations. So I'm talking about Trump, I'm talking about the United States and its killing power and its military structure has scared the daylights out of the Chinese. I really do believe that they're not ready. And by the way, the Chinese have not been in any wars, I mean, to defend the Chinese for a minute, they would say, hey, the Middle Kingdom, all we're trying to do is create some economic growth for us.

[Katty K]

They have not just exhausted their supplies of munitions on a war that has not necessarily, necessarily help them very much.

[Anthony]

I understand that. But when you are a military strategist or a general in China, looking at the killing capability of the Americans, and you're looking at the way the Americans have got them set up, and you look at the 82nd Airborne, which they could drop anywhere in the world, okay? And you can ask your friends like Mark Polymoropoulos, these guys know how to kill people, okay? And they're the strongest killing force in the world. And so, so this is why this would work.

[Katty K]

Let me make the case for why I think he goes in a weaker position, though. Why the United States is now in a weaker position. The one thing I agree with you on, the military, the American military has shown itself to be formidable and formidably powerful. But geostrategically, if you look at the outcome of this war, the countries that have benefited are Russia and China. The countries that have lost is the United States and possibly even Israel as well. And maybe the alliance, because it's shown that what we used to call the west, the great Western alliance that has held the west together since the end of the Second World War, the combination of Europe and America is split. Division can't be healed between those two blocs. That's a big problem for the West. That is great news for China. The one thing that America had that was asymmetric compared to China was a system of allies. Since the Second World War, that's been eroded. Every time that the Chinese tried to push against that system of allies, I've been told it worked against them. It pushed those allies closer to the United States. This war has pushed those allies further away from the United States. And if you look at the polling this weekend, this extraordinary poll that came out from Politico this weekend, America's former major partners in the world all now think that China is a more reliable partner than the United States is at the moment. That can change. But I think, yeah, you've got the power of the military. Sure, we knew that the American military was strong, but geostrategically, America's lost out to China on this one.

[Anthony]

Okay, so again, this is not. Everything you just said is true. You have the data to support what you're saying. But again, you gotta think like a long term leader. And I would look at the situation and say, okay, well, America's definitely diseased. America's got huge issues. I've got a book coming out in September to talk about how we got there. But if I'm a European leader, I'm looking at this and I'm saying, okay, China sounds more sane, sounds more normal, different system than ours. They're not into Western liberalism and Western individualism like most of the people that vote for me. And the Americans still have pockets of people that live there that are still into that. And maybe that group of people can win back the government. So I'm in a pause position on America and I definitely got to deal with China because if America goes forth Reich status, I've got to have partners away from America. But Katie, hear me out for a second. The Russians do not want that war to end. The Russians are delighted with this war, okay? And so this is another reason why you need China, because China would lean on Moscow to not spoil any deal, okay? Beijing has leverage over Putin that unfortunately we don't. Okay? And I believe that this could be a moment that would surprise everybody by Donald Trump. He goes to Xi. He helps Xi emerge as a Middle Eastern diplomat, a peacemaker alongside of Trump. He prevents the United States from being bogged down in the war. Okay? And what does he get out of it? He gets co guarantor status on the nuclear situation, okay? Where the Americans and the Chinese are now working alongside of each other to prevent a nuclear bomb being created by Iran. He gets long term security guarantees by the GCC and the Americans that he's gonna get his oil out of that region, okay? And then he gets to participate in the reconstruction rights of what happens eventually in Iran. As they go to rebuild Iran, they also gotta rebuild the liquid natural gas production facility in Qatar. And then there's coordinated sanctions.

[Katty K]

A lot has to go right for this to happen.

[Anthony]

I understand that, but that's what you're supposed to do in government. You're supposed to think entrepreneurially in the government and you have to think realistically.

[Katty K]

And where do you see the evidence of the last six weeks that this government is doing either of those things?

[Anthony]

They're not. Which is why I'm sitting here making this proposal on our podcast, waiting for

[Katty K]

the phone call from President Trump to

[Anthony]

say, no, I'm not waiting for you,

[Katty K]

Mr. Scaramucci, please come back into office.

[Anthony]

I'm not waiting for any phone call. See, you see, you're too sharp and stinging this morning. You're too refreshed. Okay, we gotta take you down. Two cups of coffee. And we gotta get you back in the flow here.

[Katty K]

No more holidays.

[Anthony]

No more holidays. This way you're a little slower on stinging me. But here's what I say. They're out of control. They're fighting with each other, they're rat effing each other and nobody has a plan. And they're fighting for Trump's attention. The imperialists are fighting for Trump's attention. Finish the job. And the doves are really nowhere in sight. But there's a blended strategy here where you could pound them a little harder. You have degraded them, Katty.

[Katty K]

Although I've heard they still have half their missiles and half their drones. You've degraded them, but you have not annihilated them.

[Anthony]

Okay. You haven't done what Donald Trump has said that you've done to them, but you have degraded them.

[Katty K]

But you've put the hardliners in charge.

[Anthony]

Yeah. I think the bottom line here is think outside the box and come up with the strategy that gets you everything that you want, which is a contained, more secular Iran that's controlled by the two world superpowers with oversight. You recognize that this is a radical regime that is threatening its allies in the region. It's hurting the energy security of the globe and specifically China. Bring them to the table. Okay. And this would be a way of thinking outside the box, in a Nixon, Kissinger esque sort of a way.

[Katty K]

First of all, I think that's a very good idea. I'm not sure that this team is able to think. Honestly, looking at the last six weeks, I'm not sure that this team is able to think of a strategy beyond the next three hours. Because actually, even if there are people in the administration who are thinking of strategy, they get overruled, as the Wall Street Journal reported so brilliantly. Do read that piece, guys. We'll put it in our newsletter. By the President who sends out truth socials with total disregard and no communication with the national security apparatus. So you have two tracks going on in the White House. You have the President sending out truth socials, and then you possibly have a national security apparatus which has been degraded. And it would also end up, if it happened, it would end up giving more power to China, which would be acting as a guarantor, would be acting in the region as much more of a guarantor. And I don't know, in the long term, if that's what the United States needs to be doing at the moment, why give more power to China rather than less?

[Anthony]

Because the alternative is unilateral pressure that takes longer, that costs more and has a lower probability of success. Okay. The Nixon China idea is also framed with containment. It's framed with containment. And so to me, you gotta, you gotta have to deal with the Chinese whether you like it or not. And if you're cooperating with them in the Middle east, okay, you're less likely to have a conflict with them in the Indo Pacific, okay? And whether you like it or not, unless you are going to try to destroy China while you're trying to destroy Iran and it's just not going to work. Caddy, okay, you have. Roosevelt wouldn't do it, Eisenhower wouldn't do it, Kissinger wouldn't do it. Okay, I get the fact that you want to control that oil. I understand that. And I think you could take some military steps still to further degrade Iran. But you got to get everybody to the negotiating table. And if you bring China into this situation, okay, I think you are going to surprise people with how successful it would be because you have a mutuality of interest and then you have a balance of power. And I just want to remind everybody listening in. What did Kissinger write his doctoral thesis on at Harvard? He wrote it on Von Metternich. Okay, because what did Von Metternich do with the Congress of Vienna in 1815? He balanced the power of a group of people that were fighting with each other for a thousand years from Charlemagne to Napoleon. They were beating the hell out of each other and he was able to secure some level of peace. Yes, there was a Franco Prussian war in the mid-1800s, but generally there was European peace until the beginning of the First World War.

[Katty K]

I think at the moment the White House is imbalancing power and not in a way that benefits the United States. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and come back and talk about whether Trump has a competency problem in his cabinet.

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[Katty K]

Welcome back. So another thing that struck me, Anthony, while I was away, I came back and kind of caught up on reading on the flight back from Salt Lake City yesterday and read that Atlantic article about Cash Patel, which alleges heavy drinking and how members of his security detail haven't been able to wake him up because he was intoxicated and have had to bang on his door and say, where are you Mr. Head of the FBI? We can't get hold of you details. Cash Patel freaking out because he got locked out on his computer and thought that the White House had fired him. It turns out it was a routine IT problem. Lots of impulsive announcements, prematurely declaring the detention of a person of interest in high profile shooting and then having to row back on it and everyone in the FBI basically waiting for him to get fired. I thought the article was interesting. It didn't surprise me that much, but it made did make me think, wow, here we are at a time of war and let's run through who is at the top of some of the biggest national security agencies in the administration. We've got Kash Patel at the FBI, we've got Pete Hegseth at the Department of Defense, and we've got Tulsi Gabbard, who is the DNI Director of National Intelligence, who has basically not been heard of in the Iran war for the last few weeks. And how much confidence do you have in the ability of those people who, when they were nominated, everybody, including in the Republican Party, was questioning their credentials for their jobs. I don't think there was anyone in the Senate on the Republican side who would have come forward and said Kash Patel is uniquely qualified to run the FBI, Pete Hegseth is uniquely qualified to run the Department of Defense, and Tulsi Gabbard, the former congresswoman from Hawaii, is uniquely qualified to run the country's intelligence.

[Anthony]

All three of them have something in common, and I'm going to agree with you that they're not uniquely qualified to run these roles but they are. And the question I have for you is actually, are they uniquely qualified to serve Donald Trump?

[Katty K]

Well, that's the issue. So what do they have in common?

[Anthony]

Yes, what do they have in common, Katty? Tell us.

[Katty K]

They have absolute loyalty to Donald Trump and promises made to him to do things that Donald Trump wanted. And that loyalty, combined with the fact that none of those three people has the kind of experience you would normally find in a cabinet member in that position, makes them indebted to Donald Trump. They have their jobs because of their loyalty to Donald Trump. They do not have their jobs because of past experience, which qualifies them to do their jobs. And Donald Trump knows that. So he has chosen people who he can put in those positions who know that they are only the head of the FBI, the head of the Department of War Defense, the head of dni, because they are loyal to him, which gives him enormous amount of power over them. Right. I mean, that's why they have their jobs.

[Anthony]

So you are a seasoned journalist and Sarah Fitzpatrick, who I read her byline often, I believe that she is a seasoned journalist. And she has written that he is so drunk that they've had, quote, unquote, breaching equipment wherein they couldn't wake him behind locked doors.

[Katty K]

This is his security detail. You mean has to get special equipment in order to be able to break the door down.

[Anthony]

Breaching equipment. This is in the article like you

[Katty K]

do in a hostage situation or something?

[Anthony]

Exactly. Okay. They're coming out the door with the big hammer to blow the door open to make sure that he's not dead. And we do have video of him on a junket to Italy where he's celebrating with the U.S. olympic team. What is he doing in that video, Katie? Do you remember?

[Katty K]

He's not drinking glasses of milk.

[Anthony]

You know, let's go to the ethics handbook. Not that the president threw that ethics handbook out, but in the DOJ ethics handbook, it prohibits employees from habitually using alcohol or intoxicants to excess. So, Katty, he's suing her. He says maybe he will, maybe he won't. He was on Maria Bartiromo show over the weekend, denying all the allegations, praying his crime fighting skills and blah, blah, blah. But is she a talented journalist? And do you think she has her facts straight? And do you think she has her facts well documented? And do you think the lawyers at the Atlantic, after reviewing all her sources and methods and approved the article, where do you think this is going to go? Caddy.

[Katty K]

Trump's playbook is often to launch lawsuits that then either fizzle or have to be retracted. And he's in a host of them at the moment with various news organizations. He hasn't yet won one against a news organization, the Atlantic. She says she put out a tweet this morning saying that she's standing by her story and they have all of the facts. Given the way that people are dissatisfied with Kash Patel and are leaking from inside the FBI and the details of her story. Generally, when you read a story, it's the details, right? It's things like the security detail is taken, breaching equipment in order to make sure that they can get him. Those are the kinds of things that make you think that a story is more likely to be true than not. And then I think you can look at this is where the background comes into play. If Kash Patel had been nominated and there had been across the board recognition that he was well qualified for his job just because of who he is and his background and his experience, and that there were no allegations of impropriety, propriety before he got the job, I think people would see this story with a little bit more skepticism. But even during that interview with Maria Bartiromo, what is he keen to say? She asked. Maria Bartiromo asks him, so what's the latest on whether the 2020 election was rigged? Interesting question from a TV host, but anyway, and he says, we've got all of the details. We're going to present it. We know the 2020 election was rigged. That's why he's in the job. He's in the job to enact retribution. He's in the job because he is the guy that came out and said, FBI instigated January 6th and needs reforms.

[Anthony]

Right. Okay. Was the 2020 election rigged?

[Katty K]

Caddy 63 different lawsuits filed by the Trump administration by the Trump team found were thrown out of court. No, the 2020 election was not rigged.

[Anthony]

And we've had experts hurts explain why, and we've had people explain the whole polling situation. But was Donald Trump's ego hurt by the fact that Sleepy Joe Biden beat him when he was a sitting president?

[Katty K]

And did he want a director of the FBI whose main job would be to enact retribution against his political enemies, prove that the 2020 election was rigged and prove that the FBI instigated the Capitol hill riot of January 6th? I think it's fair to say that's what he wanted.

[Anthony]

Yeah. And there was another article over the weekend. I want to give a shout out to Jesse McKinley. We'll put it in our Newsletter. But the title of the article was In Trump's Orbit. Women aren't the only ones concerned about their looks. Why are you laughing, Katti?

[Caddy]

Are you happy to be back?

[Katty K]

I saw that headline. Wasn't that fun?

[Caddy]

I thought, are you happy to be back? Catty, look at you.

[Katty K]

Look at all of these things that I missed. I missed the fact that it's not only the women who are concerned about their looks.

[Anthony]

So there is for Donald Trump. Okay, he's checking you out, Katty K. You could be a woman or you could be a man, but he's checking you out and, and he's checking you out for quote unquote. And I'm taking this from the article, Flashes of vulnerability about how men dress. You like that, Caddy? So, so this is a crazy show. I'm just asking you because George W. Bush, you've met the man, do you think he was extremely focused on how the men were dressed in his cabinet?

[Katty K]

Barack Obama, was he extremely focused? Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan. Okay, George H.W. bush.

[Anthony]

So what is going on, Caddy? What is going on where we have incompetent people that are well manicured? Okay, what is going on, Katty?

[Katty K]

You tell me particularly. What's alarming is that we are at war at a time where manicuring is more important than competence. What's going on is that these people, when they were nominated, they were found to be unqualified for their jobs. But, but they are a reflection of Donald Trump's ego. They're there because they reflect Donald Trump's ego. He wants you to be come across well on Fox News. Why is Pete Hegseth the Secretary of Defense at a time that America's in war? Anthony and I think we could have a very serious debate about how helpful Pete Hegseth has been over the last six weeks, framing this as a Christian crusade against Iran. I'm not sure that anybody would suggest that, that, including Christians, would suggest that was the most effective way to frame this war. But he has single handedly been the person in this administration who has spoken up in terms of making this some kind of a holy war against the 90 million people of Iran. Why does Pete Hegseth have his job and how helpful has he been as Secretary of War?

[Anthony]

Pete Hegseth has his job because he's a manicured television presenter. But I've got some trivia here. I have to ask you these questions. The first question is the easy question. Okay, If I say the word looks maxing. Oh, what does this word Mean Katty K. Looks maxing.

[Katty K]

This is the Gen Z word of men wanting to maximize their looks by getting plastic surgery and injectables and various supplements that they're taking. That's what.

[Anthony]

All right, all right.

[Caddy]

Let's not knock the injectables on this program, okay?

[Katty K]

All these supplements.

[Caddy]

I'm looking for a Botox sponsor.

[Anthony]

Somebody.

[Caddy]

Okay, Somebody out there listening.

[Katty K]

We like the looks. Maxi.

[Caddy]

All right, so now, ready.

[Anthony]

There's a male thing, another word for caddy. Cat. Ready?

[Caddy]

Mogging.

[Anthony]

M O G, G I N G. What does this word mean?

[Katty K]

Oh, I don't know. Tell me. I like that word.

[Anthony]

So this word is a new word for me as well.

[Caddy]

It means dominating another male in appearance.

[Anthony]

And this is now steadily permeating through the manosphere. And this is something that Pete Hegseth is so concerned about that he has pushed photographers out of the Pentagon who in his mind have taken unflattering pictures of him as he is looks maxing and he is mogging. Caddy K. Mogging.

[Caddy]

Okay?

[Anthony]

So this is where we are in our society right now. Now, again, Donald Rumsfeld wasn't well dressed. Okay? Dressed. But he wasn't imbecile. And he did cause us a disaster. But this is going an extra step, in my opinion.

[Katty K]

Well, I think it's going an extra step because in Pete Hegseth, there is an ideological crusade that goes along with this. That is, if Pete Hegseth just sat there and looked pretty for the photographers, that would be one thing. But Pete Hegseth is in the Pentagon not just focusing on whether he looks good for Donald Trump and the cameras and the photographers. He's also focusing on whether he can frame this whole war in a way that is not helpful to the person that he is serving.

[Anthony]

I want to go to one more thing, if you don't mind, because I know the show's ending and I did miss you, Katty. I did.

[Katty K]

That's why you're throwing. Even though you've hit me over the

[Anthony]

head a few times here, and I have little lumps on the top of my head like a cartoon Yosemite Sam, you know, with the little things coming out after the hammers hit the head. But Caddy, let's go to Tulsi Gabbard for a second, because Tulsi Gabbard, I think, is the one that has surprised me the most in a good way. Okay. And let me hear me out for a second. Okay.

[Katty K]

Yes.

[Anthony]

She's trying to be loyal to Donald Trump. Yes. All that other stuff. But Tulsi knows. And if I had a hat and I had a red hat, I would have on the top of my hat. Tulsi knows. And what does she know? She knows that the election wasn't rigged. She knows that there was no threat from Iran from an intelligence point of view. And she knows that what Ratcliffe said farcical, the plan of going in and unilaterally striking Iran and causing a regime change. Tulsi knows. Okay. And Tulsi also has kept her job because she knows Katie K. In silence. And I'd like you to get you to react to that.

[Katty K]

I think you're right. Of the three of them, in a way, the one that surprises me the most that she's kept her job this long is Tulsi Gabbard. We know that she's a critic of the war in Iran. Everybody knows that because of her statements prior to going into this administration and because of her silence over the last six weeks because she has not been out there talking about it in public. But I don't know that you can give Tulsi Gabbard a totally free pass, because in order to make sure that she curries favor with Donald Trump, she's taken a little bit of Kash Patel's brief and has tried to get in on the act of proving that the 2020 election was rigged by going down and looking at investigations of voting records down in Georgia. She has had a team working for her tasked with investigating claims that Venezuela hacked voting machines in Puerto Rico, a claim that hasn't been substantiated. So she's kept her job by being silent on Iran. But I'm not sure that she gets off scot free on the skill with which she has run America's dni, apart from in a purely political sense for herself.

[Anthony]

She's stayed in the game. She's stayed in the game and she knows.

[Katty K]

And if you know, unlike Kristi Noem and Pam Bondi, who have not stayed

[Anthony]

in the game, okay, But Caddy, there is one person that is literally like the universal donor. He's like the O positive. He could play anybody. He could play Byron Noem, the husband of Kristi Noem. He could play Maduro.

[Caddy]

He could play the head of Iran, Marco Weathervane Rubio. I think the guy let me blow into the micro. I mean, because, you know, the weather, it's whipping around up there, okay. And there's just so much to say on this guy, Caddy K, that we're going to do two special episodes on Marco the weathervane Rubio, the everyman of

[Anthony]

the Trump administration, wearing those loose shoes

[Caddy]

with the high heels caddy that were

[Anthony]

bought for him by Donald J. Trump.

[Katty K]

What does Marco Rubio really want? What does Marco Rubio really stand for? And can Marco Rubio fulfill his ambitions of being president of the United States?

[Anthony]

This is for our members. You got to go to the restless politics us. Okay? Come on, join our membership. You know you want to. Okay, help us out here.

[Katty K]

We're going to leave it there, guys. We will be talking about Marco Rubio. We're going to be actually going through a whole series on different members of the Trump administration. But Rubio we're going to start with. He's somebody I have known since I first interviewed Marto Rubio when he ran for the Senate in Florida in 2010. I think I was the first foreign journalist to go down there and spend time with him driving around. And I asked him, even in 2010, 2010, are we looking at the next president of the United States? And he chuckled. That is certainly the job that he wants. We're going to leave it there. Join us for that. You can sign [e-mail] to become a founding member. Thanks for listening, guys.

[Anthony]

All right, we'll see you guys later in the week. Thanks again.