The Rest Is Science – "Michael's Favourite Science Books"

Podcast Hosts: Professor Hannah Fry & Michael Stevens
Release Date: March 12, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging "Field Notes" episode, mathematician Professor Hannah Fry and science communicator Michael Stevens (Vsauce) embark on a freewheeling discussion that spans quirky science trivia, mathematical limericks, the intricacies of quantum computing in sports, why humans groan in pain, infamous rivalries in science history, and the complex effects of artificial intelligence on human relationships and ego. The second half of the episode features Hannah sharing her biggest concern about the future of AI, with thought-provoking conversations around AI-human interactions and societal consequences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Mailbox: Limericks and Mathematical Legends

Segment Start: [00:50]

• John, a listener, shares a limerick about Paul Erdős and its pronunciation, delighting both hosts:
  • Quote (Michael, 01:36):
    "This limerick is a brilliant way to remember how to pronounce Erdish because it rhymes with Kurdish."
• Michael & Hannah riff on the hobby of buying vs. actually reading books.
• Michael jokes about gaining back time in his life after finishing Gilmore Girls and starting Lord of the Rings:
  • Quote (Michael, 05:31):
    "I've got a lot to say about Gilmore Girls. Talk about understanding Western society in the early 2000s. It's all right there in a bottle."

2. Quantum Computing in Formula 1 and Beyond

Segment Start: [07:04]

• Listener Simon asks if quantum computing could allow F1 teams to find the optimum car design.
  • Hannah unpacks the complexity of aerodynamic challenges—quantum computers could explore more possibilities but can't account for all track/weather variables:
    • Quote (Hannah, 08:19):
      "Quantum computing is almost like listening to noise cancelling headphones, where the interference turns down the volume on anything that's not a good solution and then turns up the volume on things that work really well."
  • Michael frames quantum computing as "really smart brute-forcing" ([08:54]) and explains NP-hard problems with the classic "travelling salesman" story.
  • They highlight Formula 1's tradition of loopholes and ingenious cheats, giving examples of fuel monitoring and literal laser espionage for spying ([13:10]):
    • Quote (Hannah, 13:53): "You get the smartest people in the world, well, many of the smartest people in the world, and put them in a competitive environment, they're going to come up with all kinds of genius stuff like this."
  • Both agree: quantum computing would help teams, but wouldn't eliminate the need for creative, even devious, problem-solving.

3. Why Do We Make Noises When In Pain?

Segment Start: [16:23]

• Listener Roger asks about the evolutionary basis for groaning, moaning, or screaming.
  • Michael: Pain noises as a signal in the animal kingdom, for warning, getting help, and emotional release:
    • Quote (Michael, 16:32): "If you're a herd animal and you get attacked by a tiger and you go 'AAAH', then all of your conspecifics go, okay, there's a problem. Gotta go."
  • Discussion includes crying in children, swearing's effect on pain (referencing Mythbusters and cold water studies), and how exhalation or grunting can physiologically stabilize the body during exertion.
  • Hannah details the muscle engagement involved in forced exhalation and how it's used in yoga, Pilates, and childbirth.

4. The Pettiest Feuds in Science History

Segment Start: [22:16]

• Roger asks about scientist rivalries beyond Newton and Boyle.
• Hannah corrects: Newton's bitter feud was with Robert Hooke, not Boyle. She tells the story of Newton's meltdown after Hooke's criticism of his light theory, Newton's withdrawal, and his pettiness in erasing Hooke from Principia Mathematica.
  • Quote (Hannah, 25:53): "He systematically deletes every mention of Hooke's name, any reference to him at all. And then he even threatens to withhold the entire third volume of the book from publication just to make sure that Hooke gets no credit whatsoever."
• Michael is astonished to learn the famous "standing on the shoulders of giants" quote was likely an insult due to Hooke's stature ([26:37]).
• Bone Wars: U.S. paleontologists Cope and Marsh sabotaged each other's digs in the 19th century:
  • Quote (Hannah, 29:10): "They hire spies to infiltrate each other's dig camps. They're like bribing train conductors to derail the shipments of fossils. They blow up sites where they're excavating them—like destroying fossils just so the other person doesn't get them."
• Discussion of academic pettiness, the desire for credit, and the sometimes-mundane legacy of intellectual labor.

5. Main Theme: The Trouble with AI and Human Ego

Segment Start: [35:28]

Hannah’s AI Confidential Documentary

• Hannah discusses her BBC series "AI Confidential," where she interviews a man, Jacob, who married his AI companion.
  • She is unexpectedly moved by his arguments about emotional fulfillment and companionship from AI, but disturbed by the larger societal implications:
    • Quote (Hannah, 38:30): "When you scale it up to the size of humanity, I found the thought of it genuinely horrifying."
• Michael notes that “difficult” relationships help us grow ("the more windy it is, the stronger a tree winds up growing" – [39:15]).
• Hannah describes a growing tendency of people to use AI as emotional support and a sounding board, even to therapy-level dependence:
  • Quote (Hannah, 41:30): "People want to use an AI that is the easiest possible version of a human interaction. ... The ultimate issue here is that if you now have a piece of technology which can make every single person feel like the emperor of their own universe ... I do really worry about what that does to our relationship with ourselves, but also our relationships with each other."
• Concerns about self-radicalization grow, as chatbots reinforce users’ beliefs—no matter how misguided—rather than offering challenge or indifference.
• Hannah references the ELIZA experiment (1960s MIT chatbot) as an early warning of humans’ susceptibility to anthropomorphize and emotionally invest in non-human agents ([44:55]–[47:48]).
  • Quote (Hannah, 49:52): "I think that the way I'm thinking about these relationships that people are having with AI and algorithms is it's sort of the emotional equivalent of junk food. ... In the moment, it feels incredibly satiating. ... But, you know, ultimately, in the same way as junk food, it is a thin gruel. … In the long term is not ultimately good for you."
• Michael adds the concepts of “Type A vs. Type B fun” and how always choosing the easy route impoverishes long-term satisfaction.

Societal Outlook

• Both hope for regulatory/ethical course correction before escalating harms occur.
  • Quote (Hannah, 54:41): "[AI] brings more sharply into focus ultimately what it means to be human, which I think is the thing that really all of us care about."
• Hannah draws a hopeful analogy: treating AI’s perils like the Y2K bug—something we spot, prepare for, and avoid through proactive work.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On limericks and memory:
  "This limerick is a brilliant way to remember how to pronounce Erdish because it rhymes with Kurdish." —Michael [01:36]
• On quantum computing:
  "Quantum computing is almost like listening to noise cancelling headphones..." —Hannah [08:19]
• On Formula 1 genius:
  "You get the smartest people in the world ... and put them in a competitive environment, they're going to come up with all kinds of genius stuff like this." —Hannah [13:53]
• On academic rivalry:
  "He systematically deletes every mention of Hooke's name ... and even threatens to withhold the entire third volume." —Hannah [25:53]
• On self-centered AI:
  "If you now have a piece of technology which can make every single person feel like the emperor of their own universe…" —Hannah [41:30]
• On junk food for the soul:
  "It's sort of the emotional equivalent of junk food ... In the long term is not ultimately good for you." —Hannah [49:52]

Important Timestamps

• [00:50]: Listener limerick about Erdős & discussion of science biographies
• [07:04]: Quantum computing's impact on sports (F1, traveling salesman, cheating stories)
• [16:23]: Why do we make noise in pain? (Evolutionary psychology and physiology)
• [22:16]: Science's pettiest grudges: Newton & Hooke, Bone Wars
• [35:28]: Main topic: The psychological risks of emotionally realistic AI companions
• [44:55]: The ELIZA chatbot origin story
• [49:52]: AI relationships as "junk food" for the mind

Tone and Language

• The conversation is playful, self-deprecating, and rich with analogies, literary references, and personal anecdotes.
• Hannah and Michael blend accessible explanations with deep dives into science history and ethical dilemmas, always keeping the mood light yet thoughtful.
• The episode is as much about the human condition and curiosity as it is about technical science, with plenty of asides, laughter, and cultural touchstones.

Further Info

• Hannah’s new show: AI Confidential (BBC, 3-part series)
• Book mentions: "The Man Who Loved Only Numbers" by Paul Hoffman
• For questions/participation: threstisscience@goalhanger.com

Recommended for:
Listeners curious about the unseen layers of scientific progress, the perils and promises of AI, and the quirks that make both scientists and ordinary people endlessly fascinating.