The Rest Is Science

Episode: "What's The Most 'Vegetable' Vegetable?"

Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Michael Stevens
Co-Host: Professor Hannah Fry

Episode Overview

In this imaginative and surprisingly philosophical episode, Michael Stevens (Vsauce) and Professor Hannah Fry explore the perplexing question: "What is the most 'vegetable' vegetable?" With playful banter and serious scientific detours, they probe botanical definitions, cultural meanings, legal rulings, and the human impulse to categorize. The discussion reveals not only the nature of vegetables—but also the messy, human-driven process by which all categories are made.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Question: What Makes a Vegetable?

[00:04 - 05:54]

• Michael and Hannah challenge listeners not to name their favorite vegetable, but the most "vegetable" vegetable—the one that captures the very soul of what we mean by "vegetable."
• Michael's initial pick: broccoli—classic, iconic, often used in cartoons to signify "vegetable."
  • "You can draw a cartoon of a kid having to eat vegetables. You put broccoli on the plate." —Michael [03:31]
• Hannah counters with overcooked Brussels sprouts or an uncooked potato—emphasizing vegetables as a moral obligation rather than a treat.
  • "I think that vegetables need to be a moral obligation, not a treat. Right?" —Hannah [03:41]
  • She appreciates vegetables that hide underground and require little from humans.

2. The Botanical Perspective: Plant Science & Sexual Organs

[06:01 - 13:32]

• Michael reveals that botanists don’t even use "vegetable" as a category; for them, everything in the plant kingdom is "vegetation."
• Carl Linnaeus and the history of classifying plants based on sexual reproduction—fruits are mature ovaries.
  • Hannah details Linnaeus’ focus on plant sex organs:
    "This guy was randy for plants… he described [plants without flowers] as having clandestine marriages!" —Hannah [09:01]
• Scientific definition: Vegetables = Edible, asexual parts of plants.
  • Roots (carrots), stems (celery), leaves (lettuce), and flower buds (broccoli pre-bloom).
• Michael playfully suggests cinnamon—the bark of a tree—as the most "vegetable" part due to its utter lack of reproductive purpose.
  • "There's nothing sexy about the bark of a tree." —Michael [13:32]
  • Hannah pushes back: Is something only used for flavor really "edible" in the conventional sense? [13:41]

3. Culinary and Cultural Definitions: The Human Fingerprint

[14:38 - 20:52]

• Fruit vs. Vegetable debate is deeply cultural; science and law don’t always align.
• Tomato is botanically a fruit, but often seen as a vegetable in common language and cuisine.
• Many familiar "vegetables"—pumpkins, squash, cucumbers, eggplants, beans, peas, and rice—are botanically fruits.
• "Rice is a fruit. Grains of rice are just ripened ovaries from a rice plant." —Michael [18:34]
• Many foods blur the boundaries, highlighting how cultural, legal, and culinary definitions compete.

4. Legal Precedents and Social Surveys: When Courts Get Involved

[24:36 - 34:19]

• U.S. Supreme Court (1893): Tomato ruled a vegetable for tariff purposes due to its typical use in main courses, not desserts.
  • "Tomatoes are usually served at dinner with or after the soup, fish or meats, and not at dessert, which is when you would expect fruits to appear." —Hannah [25:35]
• Other cases:
  • Panera vs. Qdoba: Is a burrito a sandwich? (No.)
  • Jaffa Cakes: Cake or biscuit? (Ruled a cake, based on how it goes stale—hard, not soft.)
• Public opinion is split:
  • Only 51% of Americans say tomato is a vegetable; 21% think rice is a vegetable; 26% claim ketchup is a vegetable!
  • "Only 51% though. We are really split." —Michael [29:51]
• Ketchup’s contentious classification even factored into U.S. school lunch policies.

5. Language, Perception & the Limits of Categories

[34:19 - 44:39]

• Language shapes (and sometimes constrains) perception:
  • Hannah: Categories and language affect how we experience and use reality.
    • Example: Different languages have different numbers for color words, changing perception of blue in Russian vs. English speakers.
    • "Having separate words actually helps people distinguish things more quickly." —Hannah [42:43]
  • Michael extends this to mathematics: The base you use makes some problems easy, others hard ([43:14]).

6. Philosophical Endgame: Do Categories Even Matter?

[46:02 - 51:09]

• Michael:
  • "The most vegetable. Vegetable is the platonic ideal that exists in our minds." —Michael [46:02]
  • Shares an anecdote about a paleontologist: “We made those terms up. There are no cats and dogs.”
• The act of categorizing is fundamentally human; boundaries are invented, not discovered.
• The essence of "vegetable" is a mixture of cultural, emotional, culinary, and scientific lenses.

7. The Final Verdict: Carrot vs. Potato

[47:18 - 50:46]

• Hannah leans passionately toward potato:
  • "There is no other boring, edible part of a plant that can do so much on a plate.... Not very sexy. There is nothing less sexy than a potato." —Hannah [49:56]
• Michael, swayed by Hannah's argument, concedes that carrot is a bit sweet and “potato” better fits the role—plain, versatile, and morally “vegetable.”
  • "But the potato ... it doesn't have any lofty ambitions to be fruity in nature." —Michael [50:17]
• Award for Most Vegetable Vegetable: Potato.
  • "Our final prize goes to the potato." —Hannah [50:46]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Plants are quite interesting, aren’t they?" —Hannah [20:05]
• "I want it buried underground, living in mud. That's ... the vegetable-iest." —Michael [05:54]
• "We're not here to give out Nobel Peace Prizes for vegetable consumption, but what we are looking for is what’s the most vegetable vegetable." —Michael [17:31]
• "Vegetable is not a botanical construct. It's not even really a cultural one. It's maybe a linguistic shorthand, but one that doesn't have hard boundaries." —Hannah [46:02]

Segment Timestamps

• [00:04] Kicking off the “vegetable-iest” question
• [03:27] Michael and Hannah’s initial vegetable picks
• [06:01] Scientific/botanical definitions begin
• [13:32] Cinnamon as a contender for most "vegetable" part
• [24:36] Supreme Court tomato ruling and other legal cases
• [29:51] Surprising U.S. survey results on food categories
• [34:19] Language shapes how we categorize and perceive
• [49:56] Potato takes the title as the most vegetable vegetable

Conclusion: The Potato Reigns Supreme

By the end of their winding, thoughtful, and uproariously nerdy journey, the hosts crown the potato as the most "vegetable" vegetable—plain, unsexy, humble, and endlessly versatile. The bigger takeaway, however, is that our categories—be they for vegetables, colors, or anything else—are tools we invent to make sense of reality, not ironclad truths. As Michael and Hannah remind us, the world is weirder and more flexible than any menu—or court—instructs.

Loved the debate or disagree with the potato verdict? Send your questions and arguments to thereestiscience@goalhanger.com!