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What happens when you’ve done everything “right” — built a successful career, made a difference, checked the boxes — and yet something still is missing?

Today I’m joined by Dave Evans, co-author of How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Every Day and the #1 New York Times Bestseller Designing Your Life, and a longtime Stanford educator, to explore a question many people quietly wrestle with in the second half of life: Why doesn’t impact bring lasting meaning — and what actually does?

Dave shares insights from his newest work with Bill Burnett on meaning, presence, and what he calls the shift from role to soul. We talk about why chasing fulfillment often backfires, why the most meaningful moments are often small and fleeting, and how many of us live almost entirely in what he calls the “transactional world” — often missing the richness of the present moment that’s available right now.

This conversation is especially relevant if you’re nearing retirement, newly retired, or simply sensing that achievement alone isn’t enough anymore. Dave offers practical reframes, deeply human stories, and a powerful idea he calls the scandal of particularity — a concept that may completely change how you think about what a well-lived life really looks like.

Dave Evans joins us from California to discuss How to Live a Meaningful Life.

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Bio

Dave Evans is the co-author of How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Every Day.

Dave has worked in alternative energy, telecommunications, and high tech. As an early member of the advanced systems group that built the technology that became the Macintosh, he led the first computer mouse team and laser-printing projects, before leaving to co-found the software giant Electronic Arts.

After more than thirty years of executive leadership and management consulting in the high tech world, Evans realized that what he really wanted and needed to do was help people rediscover purpose in their jobs and lives. He joined Stanford’s Design Program, teaching the incredibly popular Designing Your Life course.

In their book Designing Your Life, Dave Evans and co-author Bill Burnett, brought these principles to a larger audience, proving it’s never too late to design a life you love through innovation, creative problem-solving, and a growth mindset. Evans teaches audiences of all ages that the same principles used to create amazing technology and products can also be used to design and build a life filled with purpose and joy that is constantly creative and productive.

Dave Evans earned a Bachelors of Science and Masters of Science in Mechanical Engineering from Stanford and a graduate diploma in Contemplative Spirituality from San Francisco Theological Seminary. He lives in Santa Cruz.

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For More on Dave Evans

How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Every Day

Design Your Life and Get Unstuck – Dave Evans (2020 Podcast)

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Podcast Conversatons You May Like

The Good Life – Marc Schulz, PhD

Resurface – Cassidy Krug

The Purpose Code – Dr. Jordan Grumet

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About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast

There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time.

About Retirement Wisdom

I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident.

Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms.

About Your Podcast Host

Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking.

Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University.

In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.9 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy.

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Wise Quotes

On Becoming

“The most essential definition of a human person is you’re a becoming. You’re constantly evolving into hopefully your more and more authentic self – never your complete self, by the way… there’s no way you’re ever going to get done.”

On Shifting from Role to Soul

“I think, particularly in that second half transition, you’re really looking at what we call the shift from role to soul. And by role, I am primarily identifying who I am as a person, my sense of what makes me who I am, is what I do in the roles and I have in the world, mostly in institutions called, you know, companies or employment or families. And I get this feedback loop from being the Dad, from being the General Manager, from being the mailman, or from whatever it is that says I’m doing the right thing, I’m getting paid for it, and the world’s a better place. And that’s the achievement feedback loop, which for most people that’s what we mostly hear from people is the primary thing. And as life moves along, even if you’re still achieving, I still have four part time jobs. But my relationship with that achieving role is very different than it used to be. And you start moving more and more where your life is really simply about expressing as authentically as you can in the world, who it is that you actually are.”

On the Scandal of Particularity

“The scandal of particularity is the recognition that all wonderful things only come in these small bite-sized pieces that are temporary, incomplete, partial, but reflections of the true thing. So if you radically accept you’re never going to get all of it, then you go, Oh, so what I really want to do is when the opportunity for some beauty or some truth shows up at all is dive all in, fully celebrate and enjoy it.”