Most retreat leaders aren’t just undercharging… they’re under-profiting. In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Leni Cavazos—event strategist, loyalty marketing expert, and former Ritz-Carlton powerhouse turned retreat business mentor.

Together, they unpack why up to 90% of retreats aren’t actually profitable—and how to shift that.

You’ll learn:

Why retreat leaders must treat their business like a business (not a hobby)
What loyalty marketing actually is (and how to start it from day one)
The biggest pricing mistake even experienced leaders make
Why your transformation container is worth way more than a fancy vacation
How alumni can become your secret sales team

This episode is a must-listen for retreat leaders ready to stop surviving and start scaling.

🎁 Bonus: Leni shares how to get her free eBook on selling retreats to past clients.

About Leni:

Leni Cavazos is the leading authority on building 6-figure retreat businesses. With over 18 years in global marketing, brand strategy, and high-level event production, she’s behind the success of over 100 retreats worldwide. Leni teaches coaches and entrepreneurs how to scale with strategy, precision, and purpose—no guesswork, no fluff.

Free Offer: https://theretreatplanner.com/loyaltyebook

Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats With Past Clients Ebook

Connect with Leni: https://theretreatplanner.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. This is Shannon, and today I'm so excited to have a fellow retreat professional on the podcast today. Our paths have definitely crossed in different ways, and now we get to connect in person, sort of. We'll say sort of because we are recording on zoom. But welcome, Lenny to the show.

Leni 00:00:45 Thank you so much for having me. Shannon, I'm so excited to be able to talk more about retreats.

Shannon 00:00:50 Me too. I mean, anytime I get to get with another professional and talk business, it's like, I don't know, Christmas. It's just so, so fun.

Shannon 00:00:58 So, This is Lenny Cavazos, and I want you to first just start off by telling us about yourself. What brought you to this space? I don't know, just a little bit about who you are.

Leni 00:01:08 Oh, yes. Of course. So I started actually in the space of events many, many, many years ago. I started when I was 16 years old working at events, and it was absolutely amazing. I love being in person with people because of the connection that you can create. And that led me actually to move to the Middle East. I was living in Dubai for six years, and I was working at the Ritz-Carlton, where I rebranded nine restaurants and the spa, and I made it snow in the desert. And it was absolutely wonderful. And one of the pieces that actually is going to be very big in our conversation today is loyalty marketing. So after I was at the Ritz-Carlton, I actually moved to Marriott's corporate office for Middle Eastern Africa, and I was working in a team that launched Marriott Bonvoy.

Leni 00:01:54 So for those who do not know what Marriott Bonvoy is, it's a loyalty program for people to who stay at Marriott hotels. Basically, the more you stay at their hotels, the more the rewards you get. From free breakfast to room upgrades to invitations to crazy, crazy events. And I was in charge of running some of those crazy, crazy events for loyal customers. So I hosted a dinner in front of the Giza pyramids, at dinner in the Summer Palace of the King of Saudi Arabia, and it was a private concert for Craig, David, you name it. But the main focus of this was really to create connection with our customers, because loyal customers spend 67% more than non loyal customers. Now, when the pandemic hit and everything changed, I was trapped in my apartment on the 52nd floor with a beautiful view, but I could not leave unless I had a permission slip from the police. And that was the moment where I decided I wanted to do something different. I was like, I do not want people making decisions for myself.

Leni 00:02:58 So I move myself back to Mexico, my hometown, and I actually started attending retreats. Right. So something that brings me, I guess, a little bit out of a lot of other retreat coaches into this space is that a lot of coaches started because they were hosting retreats, and then they start teaching how to host your own treats. My story was not like that. I started attending retreats that changed my life, and then I started creating connections with those retreat leaders. And there was this very specific retreat for women that I attended that literally changed who I was, my life. It got me to reconnect with my femininity. It was just beautiful. So at the end of the retreat, I asked them, so when is the next one I want to bring my mom, my friends. And they were like, no, we're not having a next one because we didn't even break even. How is this possible? You had 13 women at your retreat. And then I realized there was a big problem in the transformational world.

Leni 00:03:59 And because I. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Shannon 00:04:04 Yes.

Leni 00:04:06 And then, because I am very curious, I couldn't help myself. And I started interviewing retreat leaders to figure out what was going on out there, to figure out what was the missing link from creating transformation, serving people, to actually running your retreats like a business?

Shannon 00:04:23 Yes.

Leni 00:04:25 Big, big difference. So after interviewing over 100 retreat leaders and I keep doing a lot of market research as I go, I've started this over five years ago. I can tell you that over 70% of retreat leaders do not profit from their retreats. And that's just so sad.

Shannon 00:04:41 I would guess, to be quite honest with you, that it's even higher than that. I really would, I would, I would guess it's closer to 80 or 90% based on the people that I talked to as well. So and it is it's absolutely to me it's devastating, but it's also such a disservice.

Leni 00:04:57 Yes, I always tell them, like, do you want to go back to your 9 to 5 job instead of actually doing what you're meant to be doing in the world, because you don't treat your business like a business and you treat it like a hobby, you know, I'm here to serve, and it doesn't matter if I don't make any money.

Leni 00:05:13 And the reality is that retreats takes so much time and effort and energy, and there's so transformational. Like people change their lives when they go to retreats. Why wouldn't you also profit from it?

Shannon 00:05:24 I totally, totally agree with you. this is you're speaking my language on so many levels. I struggle greatly with anybody who's in this industry and and saying, you know, that they're either a not making a profit, that they don't want to make a profit. That's somebody who just is like, okay, we're not even in the same we're not even in the same city, let alone, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's just not even whatever. because you do you get a lot of that language in this, in this business, in this industry of like profits are evil or money is evil or any kind of bullshit like that. I just don't play that game. but then the flip side of that part is they just don't know how to run a business, right? So there's the attitude and you can't fix attitude.

Shannon 00:06:07 They've got to figure that part out. They've got to do them inner work. They've got to figure out what their money obstacles are, whatever that is. The other part of it is they just don't know how to make a profit. And that can be fixed, right? That can be learned. That can be taught. and it sounds like that's something that you help people do.

Leni 00:06:25 Yea...