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- [00:16]
A
Hello, and welcome to the Review of Mess, a podcast dedicated to discussing the highs and lows of pop culture. Every month. I'm Jessica Defino and I write the newsletter the Review of Beauty.
- [00:26]
B
And I'm Emily Kirkpatrick, and I write I Heart Mess, a weekly roundup of the best of the worst celebrity fashion, and increasingly, just a long rant about the collapse of America.
- [00:38]
A
It's so good, though. You know, I really like that you're branching out.
- [00:42]
B
Oh, yeah. Well, it's really just kind of whatever pisses me off every week is kind of what I. I get into. And so that's been. That's been this month, I think.
- [00:51]
A
I think it's a good formula.
- [00:52]
B
Thank you so much.
- [00:54]
A
I think we should start with a little shout out to our last episode, which was our first exclusive podcast for paid subscribers. We had Alyssa Vindian on, and it was very fun.
- [01:06]
B
It was very fun. We talked about the Walmart Birkin, which is a great passion project of mine. Another passion of mine. We talked at length about Twilight. Oh, yeah, yeah. You don't want to miss out on that. For sure. My many musings on vampire media, Nosferatu included.
- [01:24]
A
I needed it.
- [01:25]
B
Yeah. Everybody needs it, obviously.
- [01:27]
A
Yeah.
- [01:29]
B
And this past month since we last saw you, have just been kind of reveling in our own correct predictions for the new year. I mean, it's the end of January.
- [01:40]
A
We're just so right about everything.
- [01:43]
B
Yeah. It's just crazy. It's like someone should listen to us. Maybe. So nuts. But yeah. No, I don't know. I've been seeing. Just off the top of my head, I've been seeing fur everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, Kendall and Kylie Jenner just had a full weekend where it was just huge pelts.
- [02:02]
A
Oh, really?
- [02:03]
B
One after another. Yes. It was like hats. It was coats. They were long, they were short. It was crazy. I felt so validated. And then this week, Kylie just came out with a big collection of fake fur coats for Kai. Kind of just a plastic smorgasbord of synthetic furs. And so that was also very on brand for her. Yeah, yeah. So that really full circle. Just yesterday, I saw Jennifer Lopez at the premiere of her film, like the. I'm not gonna get this name right. It's like the kiss of the spider lady or something.
- [02:35]
A
That cannot be the name.
- [02:37]
B
I do think that's the name. I don't think I'm making it up that much. It is something like the sweet kiss of the spider woman.
- [02:44]
A
Stop.
- [02:44]
B
And for both the red carpet and the after Party. She was wearing like a gown and then a jumpsuit that had like a big spider web bedazzled onto it. And I thought, yeah, wow. Costume dressing, really at its finest.
- [02:57]
A
That feels very Zendaya for Spider Man. She was.
- [03:01]
B
Exactly, exactly. And so, yeah, I've been, I've been feeling, I've been feeling good. How have your trend predictions been going?
- [03:09]
A
Good, I just looked it up. It is the kiss of the spider woman. That's so funny.
- [03:14]
B
I knew it.
- [03:15]
A
So, so, so, so funny. I think my predictions have been really on point so far, particularly about the rise of like, AI skin analysis machines. I think, like, right after I posted that prediction, there were some big announcements from L'Oreal about investments in the space and just. Yeah, a lot More articles about AI's use in skin technology to soon be able to detect problems that aren't even problems yet.
- [03:46]
B
Sure, yeah, fantastic.
- [03:48]
A
I mean, some of them can detect skin cancer, which is, which is good. I'm all for medical prevention and medical care, but some of it is like, well, you might develop a little bit of a dark spot or a pimple soon, so take care of it now. And I just, I don't think we need to be knowing about all that.
- [04:04]
B
Yeah, it's very. What was that technology that Kim Kardashian like, prenuvo.
- [04:12]
A
Of the face.
- [04:13]
B
It's very pernuvo or it's like maybe a little too much information. Maybe we're obsessing and overthinking a little bit also. I know just personally, I've texted you about 10 images of beef tallow out in the wild lot since we last spoke.
- [04:27]
A
I know I'm going to have to rethink my stance on beef tallow as it becomes more incorporated into far right radicalization. Like, is this something that I need to hold on to, to. I don't know.
- [04:38]
B
It does seem to be a tenet of the Maha agenda. I will say they really are leaning heavy on that.
- [04:45]
A
Like they're gonna ruin a lot of just reasonable things.
- [04:48]
B
I think they are too. Yeah. They're gonna make everyone have to think twice about everything.
- [04:54]
A
Yeah. The other, the other prediction that I'm seeing a lot of is I talked about the emergence of the longevity dad, which is kind of like the longevity's industry answer to the almond mom. And I feel like we've been seeing a lot of examples of that. I mean, the best. I'm not going to go too in depth, but the best example is of course, an always Brian Johnson, who has a new documentary on Netflix called Don't Die. But it's really all about, like, his relationship to his son and how he doesn't want to die because he wants more time with his son. And he's roped his son into doing all of these crazy longevity and anti aging behaviors. Also, he released. Okay, I don't want to talk about him too much, but I just have to say he released this YouTube video recently talking about, you know, his longevity plan is called Project Blueprint, and then his, like, anti aging plan is called Project Baby Face.
- [05:50]
B
I was not aware of that differentiation.
- [05:52]
A
And it is so wild to me that he just admits it. But in this new video about Project Baby Face, he says, yeah, the stuff that I'm doing cosmetically has nothing to do with longevity. And in fact, in many cases is causing, like, severe side effects that I then have to address. But nobody believed me that Project Blueprint was really working and making my cells age slower because I looked so bad.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah, I remember him saying that on Twitter. I remember people critiquing the way that he looked and him, like, being like, oh, I've been doing this facial now I've been doing, like, red light. I've been doing all this stuff just to visually improve his appearance.
- [06:29]
A
But I think it's, like, interesting to have such a hard line be drawn between, like, oh, these things actually don't contribute to my overall well being. I'm just doing them to trick the rest of you into.
- [06:39]
B
Right. If anything, caring about something deeper. Yeah, that is very disturbing.
- [06:48]
A
Yeah, I think we're gonna. And that was kind of the subject of my Guardian column this month, was a dad who was. Was trying to get his wife and daughter to get plastic surgery. Cause he did and loved it so much. So, yeah, I think we're just gonna see a lot more of that.
- [07:04]
B
Yeah. As I told you about that column, I just am kind of obsessed with the idea of mansplating the beauty industry back to women. Let me tell you about beauty ideals and standards.
- [07:19]
A
I really wanted to include that quote in the draft. And I was just too. Sometimes I think, too real. Maybe I shouldn't say this out loud, but sometimes I think they cut down my articles because they pay me by the word.
- [07:32]
B
Yeah, probably.
- [07:33]
A
But I'm like, I have so much more to say.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah, no, that's true.
- [07:37]
A
But, yeah, you had a brilliant quote about men now mansplaining beauty standards back to us as if we haven't been living under their oppression for our entire lives.
- [07:46]
B
Yeah, I just think that's the ultimate. I just, you Know, that's the perfect full circle to this whole industry, to this whole life, really. And now let me get into my first topic of the week, because it's another prediction that I don't know how much of a prediction it is. Maybe I'm just feeling cocky coming off all these big wins in January. And this is more of kind of a hope, a dream I have, but also a smart direction. I think that fashion could go in specifically. You know, I'm always talking about celebrity red carpet fashion. Not for. I just need to make it clear this is not for regular people. I don't think regular people should do these things. I am always specifically talking about rich and famous people who this is, you know, the world that they navigate in. But basically, my friend Tate sent me this Instagram reel of this creator who, like, I don't really understand what she's doing, but part of her whole gimmick of her Instagram reels is she covers herself in this, like, thick layer of shaving cream that she dyes different neon colors, and then she lip syncs to various songs while in this state.
- [08:54]
A
I mean, that's a gimmick.
- [08:56]
B
Yeah, it's very interesting. So anyway, my friend sent me one where she was covered in orange foam. And I just got me thinking, like, why? I don't know. This seems like a rich text for fashion to mine for, like, shock factor. It immediately made me think of Varsity Blues with Ali Larder in the whipped cream bikini. Oh, yeah. And it's just something. It's like a form of nudity that, like, we haven't seen on the red carpet, but that also, like, there's an inherent, like, one of the big tenets of celebrity fashion is wardrobe malfunctions. Or, like, the. The threat of wardrobe malfunction. Right. Because the threat makes the public kind of engaged with. With the outfit. Cause it's, like, titillating, but it's also like, yeah, can I fear? You know? So it kind of, like, plays on all these things that, like, make us interested and make us want to click on the story. So anyway, wardrobe malfunctions are a huge facet, and there's something inherent in, like, foam or. I don't know. It got me thinking about, like, kind of all of the toys that we had from Nickelodeon as kids, like the Gak and the Slime and the Floam.
- [09:59]
A
I think the slime is.
- [10:00]
B
Slime is kind of incredible, right?
- [10:02]
A
Is an incredible prediction. It reminds me there was, like, recently an article on the cut about all the, like, goopy Gooey liquids that were in, like, the biggest films of the year, like Baby Girl and.
- [10:13]
B
Yeah, the substance.
- [10:14]
A
Yeah, the substance. Yeah. And it also reminds me, there was this article probably over a year ago in Lithub about the, like, cultural history of slime as, like, a monster in movies. And it was saying, like, we're in, like, a slime recession. We're in a slime recession.
- [10:31]
B
Yeah, we're in a slime recession, for sure.
- [10:33]
A
And I was like, I think we were in a slime recession of monsters. Because slime is such an appealing aesthetic to us. Like, that's glass skin. That's glazed donut skin. Like, skin is supposed to look like slime now.
- [10:45]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:46]
A
We're just supposed to be wet. People were literally using lube on their faces to look slimy. So I can definitely see a slime foam aesthetic creeping into fashion and not just the face.
- [10:57]
B
Yeah, totally. And like I said, there's the wardrobe malfunction of it all, but it's also, like. It's visceral. Like, it's something you can look at and almost feel. You know, it's a different. It's a very different texture from fabric. I don't know. Like, to me, the future of fashion is kind of moving beyond traditional textile into these other. More, like synthetic, very modern. I don't know.
- [11:21]
A
I like that. I really like that. You're blowing my mind.
- [11:24]
B
Oh, I'm so glad, because this is just a very, very silly musing I've been having. But it's also. There's something about. To me that's like. I'm very interested in fashion that is in some capacity, like, temporal. Like.
- [11:37]
A
Well, it's kind of like the ultimate end to fast fashion. Like, this is the fastest fashion, right? You're gonna have to wash that foam off.
- [11:46]
B
Yeah, totally. It's the fastest fashion. It's like, hyper disposable. It's one wear only. It's extreme consumption, extreme waste. It's like a logical conclusion of, like, Shein. Fast fashion. Right. Like, the joke about Shein is, like, you wear it once, and it disintegrates off your. Exactly. And so what if the ultimate is it actually is intentionally disintegrating as you move, as you wear it, as you walk? And also, I was seeing there's something about paying a ton of money for something that is, like, ephemeral, and that being kind of like a new level of wealth, a new level of flex. Like, I'm willing to pay whatever $5,000 for something that I won't Even have tangibly.
- [12:25]
A
You know what it reminds me of? My queen Camilla Cabello's ice clutch at the Met Gala.
- [12:33]
B
Yes, exactly. I was thinking about that and there.
- [12:34]
A
Were like rumors that she paid like $5,000 for it. Which she debunked. But.
- [12:39]
B
Yeah, which is absurd. Of course. That is not true. But yes, it is like that. And it was also making me think of. I don't know if you know the artist Andy Goldsworthy, but he is famous for. He goes out, he's an installation artist, but he installs things in nature. So he will like build a spiral out of icicles and then the icicles melt and it disappears. Or he'll make like ombres out of changing leaves. People really just. I'll link to his photos or something. Because you. It's unbelievable. You have to.
- [13:08]
A
It's own destruction is being created to believe it.
- [13:10]
B
Yes. Part of his artistic mission is like to create things that don't last. Like he's not interested in the permanent art. He's interested. Like you have to be there to experience it, to witness it. And obviously there are photographs of his work in completion as well. But like he's more interested in like how they fall apart over time. Like he creates order out of the chaos of nature that then goes back to the chaos of nature and. Yeah, I don't know, I was thinking about that kind of experience playing out in a fashion moment as you maybe just move down a red carpet would be. Yeah. Powerful maybe. And again, maybe me being hopeful, maybe that's a little too highbrow for what's actually happening. But I do, I can see us moving that way.
- [13:51]
A
I think that could be your like a very astute highbrow analysis of like a trend that people are not. Who are wearing it, are not conceiving of as high brow. Like they're probably not going to be thinking about it. They're probably gonna be like, oh my God. Boom.
- [14:03]
B
Yeah, so that's kind of my bread and butter. That's kind of all I do is have a highbrow thought about something that people are like low brow engaging in. But yeah, anyway, so more shaving cream outfits in 2025.
- [14:15]
A
You know what? You won't be using that shaving cream for shaving. Brilliant segue. Yeah. Your pubic hair.
- [14:22]
B
Perfect. Nailed it.
- [14:24]
A
Once again, we're talking about pubes. We can't stop talking about bush. We're always, we're always talking about it. And yeah, there have been like quite a few articles about the bush being back of Course, they're far behind us. I think there was one on Vogue you mentioned.
- [14:41]
B
Yeah. Over the weekend, Vogue Beauty published an article about how the full bush is back for 2025. And I said, babes, you are off by a full calendar year. My dudes. What is happening over there? Our premier fashion institution.
- [14:56]
A
Right. And then yesterday. Well, yesterday, before we recorded the cut, published, like, an anonymous account of someone who regrets lasering off their pubic hair. To which I say same.
- [15:09]
B
I believe Kim Kardashian has also said that.
- [15:13]
A
Well, I remember when I was writing for the Kardashian apps, we did this whole post on Chloe's app about all of their different pubic hairstyles.
- [15:22]
B
Wow, that is gold content. I can't believe they greenlit that.
- [15:26]
A
I wish I could find it. I might have a copy in my, like, drive somewhere I need to find. But, yeah, it was like Kim was fully lasered. Courtney's full bush. I think Chloe was just, like, somewhere in the middle. It was like, probably a landing strip, but don't quote me on that.
- [15:40]
B
You gotta cover the full demographic, you.
- [15:42]
A
Know, the whole market, you know? But no, the reason I want to talk about pubic hair today is because Kiehl's just launched a new campaign which they're calling Pubic Display Type. And I mean, the ridiculous thing here is just, like, how they are talking about something as revolutionary when it is not revolutionary at all in many ways. So, yeah, the campaign is called Pubic Display Type, and they say it's tackling censorship while celebrating body positivity and inclusivity. And so basically, the thing is, they shot these campaign images showing models of all genders with, like, bush peeking out of their underwear to promote their new intimate line. So the models, like, had undies on, pubes coming out, and, like, the product in their hands. And so Kiehl's is now making a big stink about how they weren't allowed to use these images in a lot of their advertising buys because they were, like, inappropriate, appropriate.
- [16:44]
B
They knew that.
- [16:45]
A
They know that. And so now what they're doing is, like, can you believe we couldn't use these images? And so their campaign images now are just. It's all text, but the text is textured, like pubes. So it looks like a message is, like, carved out of pubic hair. Whatever. But here. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. The products that these ads are selling are, like, shaving products. It's an ingrown hair serum.
- [17:16]
B
Sure.
- [17:17]
A
So it's like they're getting all of this glory for showing pubes, but their product for when you eliminate pubes and it has a bad effect.
- [17:27]
B
That's interesting because also when you first said that is promoting their new intimate care line. I don't. I wasn't thinking shaving. I was thinking, like, what's that product? That's like pubic hair oil or something. You know what I mean? Or like a lotion that's like appropriate to use on your skin. Yeah.
- [17:42]
A
They don't have one of those. I even went to the website and looked because I was like, surely they must be selling something different than what I think they're selling. They are not. And the two products that they're selling are one, the ingrown hair serum for post shaving and two, an intimate deodorant.
- [18:00]
B
Oh, shit. Oh, no.
- [18:02]
A
You're like celebrating body positivity and inclusivity. But, like, what are you celebrating? You're like telling us that we all stink to the point that we need a specialized deodorant for our pussies.
- [18:13]
B
Yeah.
- [18:14]
A
And we need to use ingrown hair serum when we shave all of our pubes off.
- [18:18]
B
How in the year 2025 are we coming out with new intimate deodorants? Like, how is that a new marketing grip?
- [18:26]
A
I don't think this is the end of it.
- [18:28]
B
Wow, that's fascinating. It's clear that whatever marketing agency they went to with this concept, like, just what was that brand? Was it Thinx that did the. The subway ads, that they were like, too vulgar? It's like, very clear that they saw that case study and then they're like, oh, we can fake that. We can artificially create those parameters of like a viral PR moment without actually doing anything controversial. Like the original did.
- [18:58]
A
100%.
- [18:59]
B
Very cool. And also, like, has anyone ever showed them that Gucci pubic hair ad? Because I feel like it would blow their minds.
- [19:06]
A
I know. Oh, my gosh.
- [19:07]
B
I feel like I really rocked their world.
- [19:09]
A
That was 90s or early.
- [19:10]
B
Yeah, 90s. It was 90s. Tom Ford for Gucci. For those who don't know, it's a really iconic image where a model has the Gucci logo shaved into their pubic hair and another model is regarding it on their knees.
- [19:25]
A
It's like reverse bedazzling.
- [19:27]
B
Yeah, reverse bejazzling the furring, perhaps. Anyway, it could really rock keels world. I think they would just consider they could have really carved those words into something. Someone's pubic hair is what I'm saying.
- [19:40]
A
That's all I have to say. About it. I'm just, I'm disappointed, you know.
- [19:43]
B
Yeah, that is quite disappointing. Someone else who is disappointing for just nailing the transitions today. I'm a lover is Mr. Beast. This is really, it's not even pegged to the news specifically just so much as like my personal fear of this creator and, and the past month. Listen, I can't even put words out about it. The past month I just keep finding myself talking about Mr. Beast and talking about like what kind of a terrifying figure he represents in the social media landscape and how strange it is that. Well, I mean, I'm the wrong generation for him, I guess. So no one I know knows who he is. No one I know talks about him.
- [20:25]
A
Okay. This is my thing with Mr. Beast. I know he's like this omnipresent figure in the culture. Never have I seen anything. Never have I known anyone who's seen anything of Mr. Beast.
- [20:36]
B
That's incredible. Yeah, well, it is primarily for children. It's for little kids, is his major audience and also, you know, teens now, people who have grown up with him over the course of him like his YouTube career. But he is, I mean it's games. It's largely games, like money, like game show games. Yeah. Is what he kind of specializes in is like we'll get into it. But yeah, he is some interesting, interesting content creator and also kind of doing an interesting thing to the minds of young children and their ability to like consume content and how they consume content. That's kind of crazy and dangerous to me. But yeah, no one I know knows who he is. To me as a consumer of mainstream pop culture and mainstream media, I really don't see people covering him that often. And, and just to make it clear, this is the biggest YouTuber on the planet. He's literally the number one most subscribed YouTuber in the world. He has 350 million subscribers.
- [21:35]
A
Wow.
- [21:36]
B
I think that's hard for people to even wrap their mind around like what that means or just kind of like the globalness of that. Yeah, that's whole countries that subscribe to his YouTube videos. He's the third most followed creator on TikTok with 113.9 million followers. I mean, I guess most recently why he came to my mind as someone that I'm scared of is that he offered to buy TikTok with an all cash offer.
- [22:02]
A
Really?
- [22:03]
B
Yeah.
- [22:03]
A
Can he do that?
- [22:04]
B
Apparently he can. It started out as like a sort of a joke. He tweeted, fine, I'll buy TikTok. You know, just like, kind of joking, but also I feel like knowing him testing the water of, like, if people would be interested in him doing that. And that was a couple of days before the Supreme Court determined that, like, the ban was going to go through. And then he followed it up with another tweet that said unironically. I've had so many billionaires reach out to me since I tweeted this. Let's see if we can pull this off. And so then he assembled some sort of like, conglomerate of billionaire investor guys.
- [22:40]
A
You know what's so sad to me is just that there are so many billionaires that a number of them would want to partner with Mr.
- [22:48]
B
Beast for sure. Well, and Mr. Beast, like a massive. Beyond the YouTube of it all, he is kind of this massive dude in the business space. Like, he has all of these. We'll talk about in a second. But he has all these MrBeast brands. He has this big Amazon TV show. Like, he is kind of like a desirable influencer, I guess. Yeah, A desirable partner. And he also reaches a generation that like, advertisers in particular and brands have literally no idea how to reach. Like, they don't get how to make content for young kids. And he very, very much acutely understands, like, how their brains work and, like, how to best manipulate.
- [23:26]
A
I'm so scared.
- [23:28]
B
Yeah. So I guess an important thing to note about Mr. Beast is he invented kind of the modern editing style of like, what YouTube videos look like.
- [23:38]
A
Oh.
- [23:38]
B
I think about it, like, I don't know if this is a well known thing or not or just something my weird brain knows. But I think about it like mtv, when MTV first came out, they invented a completely different editing style, which was like really rapid pace, like flashing colors, flashing images, to the point that originally when it. When MTV debuted, like parents and older generations were like, I literally can't watch this. Like, it hurts my eyes. It hurts my brain to process this information. Like, it's moving so rapidly that I can't consume it. But for a younger generation, it was like, exciting. And it was like more how their brain worked. And so they started like. And things have only like, ramped up since then. Like, we're Talking about the 80s, right? And things have just gone faster. You think about TikTok, the way that people talk about TikTok and how it changes the way your brain consumes content. So Mr. Beast was also very much a part of the shifting of Gen Alpha and Gen Z's brains and how they process information and imagery.
- [24:34]
A
Interesting.
- [24:35]
B
Yeah. So he is Known for like super rapid cuts, like very little dialogue, like just action, action, action, action, action, one to the next. And even to the point where like, I think it was maybe last year he teased this big thing. He's like, oh, I've been working for like 4000 hours on editing this new video and it's like a totally new editing style concept. It's going to change YouTube forever, blah, blah, blah. And he released it and it was literally just like what he does, but turned into like times five, you know, so it was just like ramped up and sped up into like an insane degree. But yeah. So he is in part why no one can read a book anymore, I think a small part. And basically he has a new show on Amazon called Beast Games that is really just Squid Games Lite, I would say.
- [25:26]
A
This is what I've heard.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah. It's currently has a class action lawsuit against him and Amazon for that. Alleges widespread mistreatment, sexual harassment, unpaid expenses and wages. And I mean, yeah, it totally, I mean, just the scale of the show alone, like how complicated is how physically demanding it is and they are all kind of physical challenges, which also, I guess I should point out that's kind of the content he's known for, is he basically offers like huge cash prizes to do kind of like physically and mentally degrading stuff. I mean, an example that comes to mind is he made this guy live in a grocery store for a month and for each day he would get like a certain amount of more money for living in the grocery store. Which at first you think, okay, that seems totally fine, until you learn that every day Mr. Beast was also taking away huge sections of the grocery store. So like, one day he would come in and he would take all the water out of the grocery store. And then the next day he would come in and he would take all the bread out of the grocery store. And he's slowly making the space smaller and smaller every day as the guy continues to live inside of it. Yeah. Or like he turns off all the electricity one day, you know, so the food starts going bad.
- [26:45]
A
It's, you know, it makes me think that he could have been like a wonderfully artsy, like, auteur film director.
- [26:55]
B
He's very creative, I'll give him that.
- [26:57]
A
Yeah. And he's just decided to like, manipulate real people on YouTube instead.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah. A lot of his content, really, it just seems like a gamified lottery system. It seems like it's really preying on people who are desperate, who need it, people who are in poverty often. And he's turning that into pure entertainment for his fans. And. Yeah, and part of that is, like, why does no one kind of, like, examine his content and think about it more critically and kind of, like, the lack of empathy inherent in it and how that might affect, like, young children watching, like, people who are less than that, who have less than them, you know, be kind of degraded in this way. Right. For money. Like, what? I don't know. What lessons does that teach to other people? And then he also kind of, like, he's able to do all of this because he kind of couches it under the guise of, like, some charitable. Some big charitable acts intermittently to kind of, like, take the heat off of the other stuff he does.
- [28:00]
A
Yeah, I feel like that's what I'm like when I think of headlines I've read about Mr. Beast. It's more about, like, the charitable.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah, he. He does. Well, it's just interesting because it's. It's one of those tough ones, you know, where he's like, he is doing something good and something charitable, but he is doing it and then turning it back into content for his YouTube channel. So it's like, it'll be like, I. I made it so a thousand kids aren't deaf anymore, you know? And it's like, he bought a thousand hearing aids for these children. But at the same time, he is, like, I don't know. Forbes says that he's a 500 millionaire. I think he's probably closer to a billionaire proper. But it's like, okay, so you bought a thousand hearing aids.
- [28:45]
A
Yeah. You could be doing more.
- [28:47]
B
You could be doing a little more, and you could also not be filming it. I know that's a crazy idea, but you could just be doing good charitable acts. He also has two big charities. I believe they're called, like, hashtag Team C and hashtag Team Tree. And so they're focused on, like. Like, tree conservation and, like, ocean conservation.
- [29:13]
A
Okay. I was thinking letters.
- [29:15]
B
Yeah, no, it's a little confusing, but, yeah, those are two charities that he runs that other people donate to. And then he, like, distributes the money. Yeah. I don't know. He just. Honestly, it's. It's less about the things. The things that he does are kind of bad, but also I just get, like, a bad energy from it. He gives me creepy vibes, and I. And I think we need to be watching him and regulating him, like, a little more closely. I mean, okay, this is a random example, but he. Again, on the face of it, it Sounds very nice. But then when you start to think about it, it's a little severance. Where he bought this whole neighborhood in his hometown in Greenville, North Carolina, for all of his employees to live in, for him, his family, and all of his employees to live on the same block so that it would be easier for them to make content together.
- [30:03]
A
That's cult territory.
- [30:05]
B
Yes, it's cult territory. It is work 24. 7.
- [30:09]
A
Got a compound for us all.
- [30:11]
B
It is a compound. It is an extreme lack of boundaries, of privacy, and it's like, obviously, all these people signed up to do it, but then it's like, right, well, they're getting a free house out of it at a time when no one can afford. Oh, I. I don't know. There's something.
- [30:26]
A
It's very nefarious.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah. It makes me uneasy. Everything about him makes me uneasy. Every new development. And then also, I didn't even realize this, but he told rolling stone in 2022 that in 20 years. Okay, again, he's, like, 25 years old. I should have probably mentioned that up top, too.
- [30:43]
A
He's 25?
- [30:44]
B
Yeah.
- [30:45]
A
I thought he was a lot older.
- [30:46]
B
Everyone thinks he is a lot older. And he is literally 25. He's been doing this since he was, like, 15. But he told Rolling Stone then, like, 20 years, he would consider running for president.
- [30:56]
A
Oh, no.
- [30:57]
B
Which I fully believe. I not only fully believe he will run for president. I think that he has, like, a great shot at winning again. This. 350 million subscribers.
- [31:07]
A
Yeah, yeah. No.
- [31:10]
B
And he's also apolitical.
- [31:13]
A
You know, that's the kind of president we need.
- [31:15]
B
Yeah. He is intentionally apolitical. He intentionally avoids giving any indication that he leans one way or the other because he said that he doesn't want to deter either one of his fan bases from donating to his cherries. So he doesn't want to come off as having Republican or Democratic ideals. It's bad for business.
- [31:35]
A
I could definitely see that becoming, like, the dystopian future where everyone wants a centrist, and it's like, what's more centrist than just being completely apolitical?
- [31:45]
B
Yeah.
- [31:46]
A
Running the country.
- [31:47]
B
I will note, though, that for as much as he says he is apolitical, he does run with, like, a pretty specific pack of individuals.
- [31:56]
A
Well, I would say, like, the billionaire status kind of.
- [32:00]
B
Yeah, the billionaire status is already kind of a dead giveaway, I think. And then he did go on the Joe Rogan podcast where they conveniently avoided talking politics. But I think, you know, Joe Rogan kind of communicates a lot without even without saying anything. And then also his. One of his business partners is Logan Paul. They have a product together that is just a Lunchables knockoff called Lunchly.
- [32:24]
A
Oh, I've heard of this.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah. And so Logan of course provides the prime energy drinks for children in the lunchlies. And then Mr. B's. I don't know what his contribution is. Yeah. And they have that together.
- [32:37]
A
They're really getting these kids on every level, mind and body.
- [32:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah. The Lunchly grift is pretty incredible as well because it. I don't know, they're like all of the advertisement is. It's like they're branding as like a healthier lunchables, but there is kind of no evidence that it is healthier per se. They're just kind of like way radder than that, guys. It's like pretty sick packaging over here.
- [33:02]
A
I feel like it's the form of the lunchable that is responsible for many of its health consequences.
- [33:11]
B
Yes, absolutely. As. As I think Lunchly is finding out as people keep finding moldy cheese in the lunch leaves that they have bought. So maybe there is a reason for some of those preservatives that they are railing against in the Lunchable due to the form. Due to the delivery system that they've chosen.
- [33:27]
A
Exactly. Oh my goodness.
- [33:30]
B
Yeah. Pretty fascinating. So, yeah, that's. That's my little personal nightmare. Yeah.
- [33:35]
A
My personal nightmare is the Coors Ice facial roller.
- [33:42]
B
Let's hear it.
- [33:43]
A
Brought to you by Coors, the beer brand who have recently gotten into skincare.
- [33:49]
B
That's a logical extension to me.
- [33:51]
A
I like thought this was a joke. I got a marketing email about it and I thought it was like a joke and they were going to do something else with it. But no. Coors has launched the Light Chill Face roller, which is kind of like a Jade roller ice roller type facial massage tool.
- [34:09]
B
Okay.
- [34:10]
A
So it's like a 12 ounce can of Coors Light secured to like a holster that you roll up and down your face.
- [34:18]
B
So what they're actually. But just. So what they're actually selling is like an apparatus, a plastic apparatus that I snap on to the Coors beer like in that I purchased separately.
- [34:29]
A
Yeah. And they're selling it as part of this campaign that's called Case of the Mondays. And they like even sent like a four step tutorial for how to use your facial roller. And it's just like after you roll your face, you take a deep breath and say, I don't have a case of the Mondays. It's like, who came up with this? But also I think the reason it sticks out to me is because it feels very similar to, like, last year's rush of, like, food brand collaborations with beauty, which I've always said are feel very ozempic coated. Like, some of these brands that are not known for particularly healthy treats are doing a lot in the beauty space to, like, endear themselves to a customer that is probably more prone to not engage with their products for health reasons, for, like, fat, phobic reasons, whatever. And I thought the timing of the Coors facial roller was pretty interesting because it comes, like, right after the Surgeon General recommendation to put a warning on alcohol, its links to cancer.
- [35:47]
B
I didn't even think about that. Yeah.
- [35:48]
A
And then just, like, more broadly, in the midst of this, like, pretty big, like, sober, curious movement, younger people aren't drinking as much. And, yeah, I think the amount of.
- [36:03]
B
People drinking is also going down.
- [36:05]
A
Going down. Even though certain groups are, like, taking up the, you know, the lion's share of, like, binge drinking or whatever.
- [36:13]
B
Yeah. It seems like the pandemic really changed people's relationship to alcohol and even wanting to drink. And yeah, I definitely see how this is, like, a way for Coors to, like, insert itself in a different demographic where they're like, oh, you're not drinking it. You're using it to roll out your face. And even when you said that it's called, like, a case of the Mondays, my first thought was like, oh, they're trying to find a way to extend beyond the weekend, because the weekend is like, when you party, when you drink, when you would have a Coors. Right. And it's like they're trying to bring a little alcoholic moment into your work week.
- [36:48]
A
They want you to be a weekday drinker.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah. You got a case of the Mondays.
- [36:52]
A
It's part of your wellness routine. You know, you crack a beer, you're well rel.
- [36:57]
B
Yeah, very interesting.
- [37:02]
A
That's the latest from Coors.
- [37:04]
B
Yeah. It also just made me think of, like, you said, the way that beauty and all these food brands have kind of had their synergy moment. I feel like fashion is equally getting a dose of that now. I don't know. It just made me think. I don't know if you've seen them. Chopa Lawena. Do you know her? That is not how you say that out loud.
- [37:23]
A
I've never said their name out loud.
- [37:25]
B
Me neither.
- [37:25]
A
But, yes, I know who you're talking about.
- [37:27]
B
But they just did a collaboration with Hellman's where it's like, A purse.
- [37:31]
A
It's got like a canister, like a.
- [37:32]
B
Yeah, it's literally just a jar of mayo strapped to the front of the bag with a spoon. And I don't know, there's an equally kind of just like ham fisted, I don't know, attempt to like, be like, well, you're not really going to eat it. But doesn't it look great as an accessory strapped to your person?
- [37:49]
A
And it's also sort of like a display of dominance for a certain type of person to like outwardly seem like they indulge in these, you know, unhealthy or very fatty foods. It's like hot girls eating pizza.
- [38:03]
B
Like, I was just thinking, you're also, you're talking about. I mean, most of the people who are wearing this bag at this point are celebrities. And it's like, who is more iconic for giving the like, interview quote of like, oh, I don't really do anything. I just like, have a burger. I'm just like a burger and fries type of girl.
- [38:17]
A
I'm always slathering mayonnaise on my finger.
- [38:20]
B
It's very. That. I don't know, it's very interesting. And remind me, it's funny that Julia Fox was one of the people who did it because it also reminded me that last year she did an ad for Velveeta where she like put a box of Velveeta in like a Lucite handbag. It looked like a fishbowl.
- [38:34]
A
Yes.
- [38:35]
B
And so you could just kind of see the box sitting in there alone from. From all angles. And it was another kind of weird. Yeah. Forced fusion moment of fashion and food.
- [38:45]
A
Maybe her next collab will be a foam adjacent, slime adjacent covering of Velveeta cheese.
- [38:53]
B
Listen, I'm open to it. I'm intrigued that now that's a concept.
- [38:58]
A
Should we. Should we talk about the beauty and fashion moments of the inauguration?
- [39:03]
B
Oh, my God. I guess so. Curse.
- [39:07]
A
I feel like we have to because there's so much material there. It's a rich text for fashion and beauty analysis. Although. Yeah, I don't know, it was rough. I watched the inauguration live, like just on tv. And, you know, not to be all Selena Gomez, but it was very emotional. Like, I was really upset.
- [39:28]
B
Yeah, I can't. I just can't watch it. I don't know. I think I'm still traumatized. When he was inaugurated the first time I was working at People magazine and because People is like a traditional newsroom, there's. There were just like tv. There are TV screens all over the place. And there's one, like, directly over my desk because the open office plan, of course, and they were just. It was the inauguration just blasting from every surface. I had to go lock myself in a. I called it the panic room, but they were just interview rooms that people would sit in. But. So I think I'm still traumatized from that event, and I just haven't been able to do it.
- [40:05]
A
I don't blame you.
- [40:07]
B
Yeah. But I also really didn't expect fashion to be so central to that day. My mistake. Foolish me.
- [40:15]
A
It was a day one fashion embrace of the administration.
- [40:21]
B
Yeah. It was a. And just a fashion show. Like, just a fashion parade by every woman in attendance. And I also. I don't know. The first time around the fashion industry had this real, like, moral quandary over the whole situation about, like, what it means to dress them, what it means to be complicit in this administration. Like, is dressing the president, like, and. And his. And the first lady, like, an honor, or is it, you know, an endorsement, I guess. And there was this big debate in the industry, and it was, like, very. I would say, pretty 50. 50 of designers who are like, absolutely not. Like, I want nothing to do with them. I don't want my brand associated with them. I don't support them. And others who. Yeah. Kind of a traditional take on it where it's, like, it's always an honor to dress those figures. Like, this is a huge request. This is a huge stage. Right, Too. A huge platform for your brand and sales and whatever.
- [41:19]
A
Well, I remember a lot of the media coverage of the fashion of the administration the first time around was not particularly positive. Designers might have dressed Melania or whatever, but you weren't getting, like, glowing coverage of it, like, every time the outfit was covered. Yeah. At least in the, you know, media platforms that I was, like, reading and watching there, it would insert the question, like, but is there an ethical problem here that this designer is, like, somewhat endorsing the administration? And. Yeah, I don't think. I don't know if we're going to have that this time.
- [41:53]
B
We most definitely are not going to have that. Even in preparing for the segment, I was reading that in 2017, Melania's stylist, Hervey Pierre, who also designed her. Some of her dresses for this inauguration weekend and the first one as well, he told Women's Wear Daily that he had to buy a lot of the pieces that she wore off the rack because no one would work with them. Including, of course, the. The infamous Zara. I don't really Care coat.
- [42:19]
A
I remember that.
- [42:20]
B
And yeah, I think the Zara coat is kind of emblematic of how all fashion that she wore during that period was treated. I mean, there is, there is very much a reason why she was predominantly wearing Dolce and Gabbana. Birds of a feather flock together. And there's a reason you saw a lot of Dolce at this inauguration as well. It's very interesting to me how kind of evil people and tend to gravitate towards evil people. Yeah, it's very funny that way. Bigots find bigots no matter where they are. But yeah, and I was just so this time around, yeah, I was really just surprised at how immediately the entire fashion industry just started. They got to bootlicking day one, they said, yes, sir, how high? How high should I jump? We had the Arnault family in attendance for starters. For those who don't know the Arnault family, they are the owners of lvmh, which is Louis Vuitton, Moet Hennessy, which is one of the biggest fashion conglomerates beyond fashion. Just massive, massive corporation that owns pretty much everything. Luxury that you can think of, Jewelry.
- [43:35]
A
Couture, Big and beauty, which I'll get into later. They own Sephora.
- [43:41]
B
Yeah, they own just about everything. And they were right front and center, just sitting a couple of rows behind former presidents, which I think really communicates how important multi billionaires are to this administration. Bernard Arnault was there. He's the founder, chairman and CEO of LVMH with his wife Helene. His daughter Delphine was there. She's the chairman and CEO of Dior, which is a brand that Melania wore twice on inauguration weekend. And then their son Alexander was also there and he is the executive vice president of product, communication and industrial at Tiffany and company. Yeah. So quite a powerful little family unit. And it turns out, you know, this is a very, I guess, high profile public embrace of the Trumps. But the Arnos have been very friendly with the Trumps since the beginning. In 2017, even before the start of his of this first administration, Arnault met with Trump. He had a private meeting with him. And then in 2019, he also invited Trump to tour their leather goods workshop in Texas so that Trump could like brag about job creation.
- [44:52]
A
Oh, I did not know this.
- [44:54]
B
Yeah, so they have quite a storied past together. And I don't know, it also just made me think about kind of like, are we going to hold? Because I don't know, it's like when Dolce and Gabbana when it all kind of came out again about how problematic they are, to put it gently. Same with Alexander Wang, you know, accused sexual predator. The public kind of pushed back on celebrities wearing those brands. You know, it didn't work. Our pushback was. Fell on extremely deaf ears and nobody cares at all for some reason. But there was definitely a public pushback. And for a time, stylists wouldn't work with them. Right. Like celebrities wouldn't wear them. And I. It's just curious. I'm curious if there will be any sort of pushback with lvmh, because, you know, even just this weekend we saw Taylor Swift at Travis Kelsey's football game. I am not a sports person. I know that football game was a big deal. I don't know why they're going to the super bowl or something. I don't know.
- [45:52]
A
I do know I hated that hoodie.
- [45:54]
B
Yes, it was a horrible, horrible outfit. But she was wearing head to toe Louis Vuitton, which was an ad. It's an ad. It's a paid placement. It's crazy to me that people still can't recognize them when they see them in public. But if. If you were wearing. If you're a famous person and you were wearing head to toe, a singular brand, and not just that, but it is covered in highly visible logos. You are being paid to wear that in public to create moments that are going to be spread across tablets. Because what did Taylor do after the game? She walked up to Travis, gave him a big kiss with her gloved LV hand on his face. And now that's the image from that football game. Right. It's a. It's a huge ad for them. But anyway, I was just thinking about that being like, I wonder if anyone care, like if anyone connects the dots of like.
- [46:41]
A
No, I feel like even if they do connect the dots, I feel like.
- [46:44]
B
It'S too far removed or something.
- [46:46]
A
It's far removed. And we're also just like so well versed in like, the futility of consumer pushback at this point that I think most people feel pretty disengaged.
- [46:57]
B
Yeah. And I agree because beyond that, I feel like we're well versed in kind of like the futility of protest. You know, it's like we march in the street, we did all this stuff and where to guess? Right back where we started. Yeah. So I could understand why people feel that way about consumer pushback as well. And also it's like these are brands that regular people don't really purchase.
- [47:17]
A
Exactly.
- [47:18]
B
You know what I mean? Like our taking our dollars away from them doesn't change as much as say, I don't know, taking your dollars away from big box stores that are ending their DEI programs, you know, would have a more effect.
- [47:30]
A
I was just gonna say about the Target, I think that's another thing. It's like even people saying that they're going to boycott Target for ending their DEI programs, I feel like there's a lot of pushback to that where people are like, no, you have to buy from Target because that's the way to support the like black owned brands that they have. And it's just like this. I don't know.
- [47:54]
B
So fraught. It's very fraught, very difficult.
- [47:58]
A
And I don't think people like really believe in a boycott.
- [48:03]
B
Yeah. Also, I don't know, my, my suspicion is a lot of the biggest consumers of LVMH brands voted for Trump, so. Right, right. Yeah. I don't think they'll be boycotting anytime soon. And then another brand who was involved, who's not an LVMH brand was Oscar de la Renta was like hugely involved in this inauguration in like a really crazy way. And I, I made a joke on Substack that they're doing kind of like a speedrun to be the next Hugo Boss. For those who don't know, Hugo Boss was a big time Nazi. People often credit him with designing the Nazi uniform, but actually he didn't design the uniform. He just got the big government contract to produce all the Nazi uniforms. So he made a ton of money in World War II. And also of course, another famous Nazi, Coco Chanel. So fashion has a long history of cooperating and sympathizing with fascist regimes.
- [49:06]
A
Of course, of course.
- [49:07]
B
I was actually thinking, this is random, but I was thinking in preparing for this, have you ever seen the photo that Richard Avedon took of Coco Chanel? That's like the iconic probably, but I.
- [49:17]
A
Don'T know if one off the head.
- [49:19]
B
I will link to it in the show notes because it's one of my favorite fashion photographs of all of time. And it's just the, to me, it is a perfect example of like how powerful art can be in being like a protest and subversive is basically. Richard Avedon had to take a photo of Coco Chanel for something. I don't remember what, but he, they were out on the streets in Paris and he positioned her perfectly under the sign and then he cropped it like in the framing of his photo so that it looks like the sign says pourquoi Hitler, which is French for why Hitler?
- [49:54]
A
Right.
- [49:54]
B
And she had no idea that it was above her head, and she got very mad at that photograph. But it's one of the most iconic fashion photographs. But it just, to me, is like a perfect of, like, how you can kind of work within the system and subvert it and be cheeky with fascism and tell the truth about who these people are. Anyway, Oscar de la Renta made custom gowns for Ivanka Trump and Second lady Usha Vance. And Ivanka wore another Oscar de la Renta kind of like, suit coat thing at the Arlington ceremony, and Usha also wore one of his coats to the inauguration. And I guess I just don't get the point. And I guess. I mean, I guess they've crunched the numbers and they think that this is going to be good for their bottom line. But I also guess I didn't realize how involved Oscar de la Renta was in the first Trump inauguration as well. Ivanka wore several Oscar de la Renta looks during the 2017 inauguration events. And now, knowing what Melania's stylist said, I don't know if those were off the rack and she purchased them from the brand or if they were custom, but these ones were certainly custom.
- [51:02]
A
Wow. Yeah. I mean, I feel like your point about the fact that a lot of these luxury customers might have voted for Trump makes the brands feel like insulin.
- [51:13]
B
Way safer about it.
- [51:14]
A
Yeah.
- [51:15]
B
I also just think, because it's the second time that he's president, there's this idea that, like, oh, this is the people's will. Like, this is the mandate. You know what I mean? So they're like, well, we don't want to alienate the majority.
- [51:26]
A
The majority of people want this.
- [51:28]
B
Right. And so they're willing to be complicit with, like, even though it's just crazy to me, because the second time, it's where I was like, well, now we know, like, how bad he is. You know what I mean? The first time, it's like we were speculating about how awful and fascist this government is going to be. Like, now we know. And you're like, no, no, we're good now. Let's get on board with that.
- [51:48]
A
Bleak.
- [51:49]
B
And then one of the most interesting and telling outfits from the inauguration weekend, I thought, was Ivanka Trump at the inauguration ball. She wore a Givenchy gown, which is an LVMH brand, of course, and the dress was inspired by a 1953 haute couture gown that Audrey Hepburn wore in the 1954 film Sobriety. Sabrina, I already think that choice in celebrity parallel is very notable, kind of. Again, I've talked about this a lot when I talk about red carpet homages that celebrities do. But a lot of that isn't just about wearing something that someone else famous already wore. It's also about brand synergy. It's about aligning your brand as a famous person with the brand of the famous person. Right. And kind of coasting off of that fame while also saying, like, their qualities that you associate with them are qualities I want you to associate with me. And so Audrey Hepburn, obviously, is, like, feminine demure, like, classic America glamour. You know, there's just a lot associated with her, especially New York Breakfast at Tiffany's. Obviously, that thing was very telling. And then also, I just started thinking about the gown itself, to me, has a very, like, classical 1950s silhouette. So, like, very tiny waist, very huge skirt. And. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it's because I wrote, obviously, I've talked about on this podcast a lot about the constructed curves trend, and I wrote this big essay about it on my substack. But it just got me thinking. Basically, in writing that essay, I learned kind of more about the historical component of, like, where that 1950s aesthetic came from. And I think it's, like, very informative and very telling to what's happening today politically, especially with women's rights. So, basically, I think it's first important to know that Hubert de Givenchy was a contemporary of Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent. So Givenchy and Dior actually worked together for designers and then ultimately became competitors. And so when I was looking into the constructed curves trend, I kind of drew a direct parallel between the, like, big hips, the small waists, and the big hips that we're seeing today with Dior's new look, which debuted in 1947. And Dior's new look was a response to, like, World War II austerity and fabric rations. It actually came out at a time when fabric rations in France were still in place. And for those who don't know, Dior's new look, it's. It's implemented. It's like, very. It's like a suit jacket with a very teeny, tiny waist, and then kind of like faux, exaggerated, curved hips to accommodate, like, a super wide, round skirt. And so it is just, like an insane amount of fabric goes into this skirt. And at a time when, like, everything. All the fashion of the 40s in France was, like, very slim, very almost, like, androgynous kind of militaristic. Because of the times, because of the lack of fabric, because the lack of access. And so this really flew in the face of that. And it was. I mean, it was unbelievably controversial at the time. Today, again, it's like what we think of the prototypical 1950s housewife. Like, that is the look of Dior's new look. He defined that. But then it was, like, very, very upsetting to people, to the point that he was shooting a campaign for the collection on models who are walking the streets of Paris. And the models were actually attacked by some older women who, like, ripped and tore their garments because they were so offended at the extreme luxury, the extreme excess of it. There was also a. I can't remember the exact quote, but there was a journalist at the time who wrote, after seeing Dior's collection, that the nipped waists and the big skirts communicated a feeling of class more than any fur coat ever could.
- [56:01]
A
And you know what this is reminding, like, a beauty corollary is, I feel like the excess of that, like, for this inauguration is the cosmetic surgery. I feel like these very obviously modified faces are. Are a class signal. They are a signal of wealth. They are just like an esthetic display of look how much money I have, and I'm going to put it into my face, in your face. You cannot ignore what I'm capable. How I'm capable of manipulating my own body, never mind what I'm capable of, like, doing to the public. I don't know.
- [56:40]
B
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense because it's also. It's like. I mean, we'll get to it in a second. But, you know, the Lauren Sanchez, like, the big fake boobs of it all as well. Part of this constructed curves is part of this, like, hyper femme aesthetic of, like, what women should be, what women should look like, you know?
- [56:58]
A
And of course, it all accompanies, like, an announcement in the inauguration speech that Trump's administration will only recognize two genders.
- [57:07]
B
Exactly.
- [57:08]
A
Yeah.
- [57:08]
B
That's. That is no accident because, again, and so going back to, like, Dior and what he was doing, Dior's new look is also very much about, like, re. Establishing, like, what the feminine domain is, because we're talking about World War II, right, where women are becoming the heads of their household for the first time. They're holding jobs for the first time. They're entering the public realm when previously it was like the domestic realm was the only place they were allowed to be. And they're coming out into public, and it's because of the work they're doing, because of the practical labor they're engaging in, they're dressing more masculine, let's say, you know, quote unquote. But so part of Dior's mission, subconsciously or consciously, I don't know, is to kind of redefine, like, this is what femininity looks like. And the aesthetics that he's referencing. The trends and the silhouettes he's referencing actually come from the Victorian period. So he's hearkening back to this, like, idealized historical time and this, like, fictional idea of, like, what woman was, right? As, like, pure ideal femininity to try and, like, reconjure it through his new look. And interestingly, one of the people who hated Dior's new look was Coco Chanel, iconic Nazi Coco Chanel, because she had spent the last 20 years of her career creating fashion that was intentionally liberating for women. So it was like clothing that moved more easily, like, no corsets. She. She put pockets in things for the first time so that women could actually, like, carry things on their person. And it's like, it all sounds so silly today, but, like, that revolutionizes, like, what you're able to do in your mobility just within society. And so when she saw Dior's new look, she said that he was, like, basically shackling women to the past and that he was trying to drag them backwards by trussing them up and stuff that they couldn't even move in, they couldn't bend over, and they couldn't pick something up off the ground. And so they become these kind of, like, stylized objects versus real living human beings. She has some quote. I think it's something about how, like, Dior upholsters women. He doesn't dress them.
- [59:10]
A
Oh, I love that.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah. And so. And so for me, having the. The Trump administration kind of pull back these look, it's like, of course, one to one, right? Like, you're trying to reestablish the feminine ideal at a time when femininity has never been more unstable. Like, not only are women, like, uppity, you know, it's like the very, like, nature of, like, what scientifically, what is a woman is now in question. And there's all this, like, drummed up trans panic. But. Yeah, right.
- [59:41]
A
And I think what's kind of interesting from the beauty standards standpoint is, you know, most of the people up there standing behind Trump were, like, pretty obviously cosmetically enhanced, we'll say. So they're, like, really strict standards of, like, femininity in what a woman should look like. And there are strict standards of masculinity and what a man should look like. I mean, we're looking at, like, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, who've all, like, invested a lot into their appearance, into their, like, recent masculine.
- [60:14]
B
Who have all invested a lot, I would add, into gender affirming care.
- [60:17]
A
Exactly. Yeah. Well, see, I struggle with that. I really do not. Like, when people say, like, this is gender affirming care.
- [60:25]
B
Yeah.
- [60:25]
A
Because I think, like, cosmetic surgery is a tool. Like any tool, you can use it for good things and bad things.
- [60:32]
B
I mean, like hair transplants. I know, but I mean, like growth hormone steroids.
- [60:37]
A
Exactly. But I don't think that's gender affirming. Like, I don't think all men have, like, lush hair. Like, this is not a gender affirming thing. It's more of, like, a class and a wealth thing. And I think there's ways to use, you know, all of these tools for gender affirming health care. But the way they're using them is for aesthetics.
- [60:55]
B
Definitely.
- [60:56]
A
And not health. And not.
- [60:58]
B
I just always think that line being drawn is.
- [61:01]
A
I mean, it's. Yeah, it is. But I also just think, like, I think. I don't know.
- [61:06]
B
I get what you mean. You know, like, getting breast implants can be gender affirming care. They can also be cosmetic.
- [61:12]
A
And they. Yeah, it can also be just like a beauty standard that has no basis in, like, reality. I don't know.
- [61:19]
B
I hear you.
- [61:20]
A
But I think what's interesting about, like, the extreme standards of femininity being, like, cosmetically crafted with surgery and these extreme standards of masculinity being cosmetically crafted with surgery for people who are CIS women and CIS men is. It just shows that, like, none of this is real.
- [61:36]
B
Yeah.
- [61:36]
A
Like, these standards don't exist. They're trying to do, like, gender essentialism and biological destiny and whatever and like, the methods they're using to prove one or the other just, like, show that it's all a sham.
- [61:49]
B
Yeah.
- [61:50]
A
You cannot adhere to this, like, standard of femininity without, you know, quote unquote faking it to some degree. Like, it. It's all a construct.
- [62:00]
B
Yes. A rich tableau for Judith Butler, to be sure.
- [62:05]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [62:06]
B
A lot of performativity.
- [62:09]
A
Yes. And I mean, I don't know. I did like, Nomi Fry's article in the New Yorker about Lauren Sanchez's cleavage that was out and about.
- [62:21]
B
Yeah.
- [62:22]
A
Yeah. Lauren Sanchez, girlfriend of Jeff Bezos, wore, like, just a white bra, Dolce and.
- [62:29]
B
Gabbana Dolce and Gabbana bra.
- [62:30]
A
Wow. A white bra with a blazer. And yeah, I think the way that Nomi ended her article on that was like, at long last, we were back. Women once again equaled boobs. Men once again equaled hard ons. Order was restored. God bless America. And I think that's just, like, kind of the perfect way to put it. Like, there's a concentrated effort there to really draw these hard lines for gender while denying other people the freedom to express their own gender the way that they want to and need to.
- [63:08]
B
Right. Because it threatens these boxes they're trying to establish. Yeah. I was also interested in Melania's choice in fashion, and because of this kind of, like. I don't know, it seemed like it almost flew in the face of this extreme femme stereotype, women aesthetic. Like the hat.
- [63:33]
A
The hat. Oh, my goodness.
- [63:34]
B
But also just kind of the suiting. Again, maybe I'm just too deep in this Dior stuff, but it kind of made me think of, like, 1940s militaristic.
- [63:43]
A
Yeah, it did have a military vibe, I would say.
- [63:45]
B
Yeah. And it was very severe in a way that I found the other women's fashion was not. I mean, I'm thinking also, even Usha's Oscar de la Renta coat was this, like, very light pink, very girly, feminine thing. And, yeah, compared to Melania's just kind of stark navy blue, extreme tailoring, sharp hat, brim situation, it kind of flew in the face of, like, her husband's agenda in a funny way. And likewise, I don't know if you've seen her first lady portrait.
- [64:15]
A
Oh, I just saw it. And she's, like, wearing, like, a power suit or something.
- [64:19]
B
She is wearing a Dolce and Gabbana power suit. Thank you for asking. And I found the portrait to be very succession. Like, does she not look very Logan Roy at the head of the table, kind of like a CEO about to deliver some bad news. And again, I was like, that is such an interesting aesthetic choice compared to the aesthetic choice, like, the fellow kind of MAGA ladies are making. I don't know. She goes to the beat of her own drum, though.
- [64:48]
A
She really does. She really does.
- [64:50]
B
But I appreciated the hat and the. Well, the hat is Eric Javits. The suit was Adam Lippy's, who said it was an honor, an honor to dress her. And I appreciate the hat because it's so obviously meant to fend off her husband's kisses.
- [65:06]
A
Right.
- [65:07]
B
And so I'm glad that she found a stylistic way to do that instead of her usual classic kind of head turn or like, shove away. And also, as I already told you, this is a reference for five people. But I thought it looked very much like Gino from 90 Day Fiance. For any fellow fans, Gino is a man on 90 Day Fiance who is fully bald, who insists on wearing a fedora pulled down over his ears, despite the fact that his fiance fully knows he's bald. Everyone knows he's bald, but it's for his own.
- [65:39]
A
He can't know he's bald, you know?
- [65:41]
B
Yes. He can never find out. He doesn't want to ever find out what's really happening under there. But it really reminded me of Milan. And someone in my discord also called her the Hamburglar, which I thought was appropriate.
- [65:52]
A
Oh, yeah, that's. I can see that.
- [65:54]
B
Pretty accurate.
- [65:55]
A
I can see that reference.
- [65:56]
B
Yeah. And then other, you know, beyond fashion, I was just kind of not surprised. I don't even know what the right word is, because I definitely wasn't surprised. But I just was. My interest was piqued, I guess, by the celebrities who decided to, like, come out of the woodwork and, like, use this as their opportunity to also announce that they're maga, or at least open to MAGA money. You know, if not MAGA themselves.
- [66:21]
A
Kim posted Melania.
- [66:23]
B
Kim posted a wordless. It's also just like, so spineless to me because it's like, I was just.
- [66:29]
A
Gonna say, like, if you're gonna do.
- [66:32]
B
It, do it, babe. Like, stop teasing it. Stop, like, acting weird in middle of the road. Cause she was already teasing it with all this, like, weird Tesla Spongon that she claims wasn't paid for, but, like, was very clearly paid for.
- [66:42]
A
It's like, like, even worse if it's not paid for. You just like that. You just.
- [66:46]
B
Right, you're just. You just like this, right? You're just trying to kiss ass for a weird little cyberbot, for a weird little car that, like, breaks down all the time. Like, that's what you're gonna sell out for money. But if you genuinely avoid that, even more embarrassing you could be. You could just ask for a billion. You know what I mean? And you just did it for free. Lame. But yeah, she just posted a photo of Melania at the inauguration. Didn't even write anything, hasn't said anything since. I think that's beautiful. I know.
- [67:19]
A
I wonder. I wonder when. When we're.
- [67:21]
B
Oh, no. I mean, again, I think it's just kind of like it's the same as these fashion brands, right? They're just like, well, it's good business. They've. They've done the math, they've crunched the numbers, and they've decided that if the majority of Americans want this, then the numbers have gotta be good, the spending has gotta be right, which doesn't make sense to me, but I guess someone is advising them on this. Likewise, Snoop dogg, of course, DJ'd the Inauguration Ball, I believe. I'm not sure actually which event, but. And of course, the first time around, he had some very strong words for people who worked with the administration, calling them Uncle Tom. So.
- [68:01]
A
Whoa. And now he's.
- [68:03]
B
Now he's dj. Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's the very person he was calling out. Yeah. Kind of gravel. And then, weirdly, I was looking through photos. Of course, Page Six has every beat of this weekend an event in photographs. So I was looking through some of their galleries from these events, and I saw that Vince Vaughn was there. And it's like, my man. Like, I don't. I don't ever even think of you. Like, why would you want to insert yourself into this situation in the most negative way? But, yeah, he was really living it up. He was partying with all the. All the MAGA boys.
- [68:38]
A
Yeah, that's a surprising one, I guess. I don't know. It's surprising only because I haven't thought of that man in years.
- [68:44]
B
Exactly. Because I think if you think about it for, like, another five seconds, you're like, oh, okay, yeah. I mean, I saw Swingers. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I see where he's coming. I get why, how he would end up in the Trump camp. But, yeah, weird, Weird. The confidence, to me, in. In being MAGA is weird.
- [69:03]
A
I agree. I think my big beauty takeaway from the inauguration was just how many people sitting behind Trump and Trump himself are involved in the beauty industry. And I just think it's something that people, I don't know, like, aren't really talking about. There's been so much fashion chatter, for sure, and I've seen nothing except my own article talking about, like, the extreme involvement of beauty industry executives in this administration. So I wrote about on my sub stack, I'm not gonna. I won't do a full recap, but just to say, like, first, we're starting with, of course, Trump, who used to own the Miss Universe pageant, but of course. And now he has a beauty brand.
- [69:46]
B
We talked about his perfumes.
- [69:48]
A
Yes. It's, like, so strange that he's, like, allowed to just have a fragrance company as president, but he is and it's like a pretty popular fragrance company. And then, you know, on the administrative side we have RFK Jr. Who is now going to be overseeing Food and Drug Administration, which oversees the cosmetics industry. And update, his wife, Cheryl Hines, who has a beauty brand, announced that they're going to stop sales if he's confirmed.
- [70:17]
B
Not the beauty brand. Cheryl, you're just getting off the ground. You know, you gotta make sacrifices.
- [70:25]
A
Started.
- [70:26]
B
Yeah.
- [70:27]
A
But then in terms of like other big names in the beauty industry that were up there with him, we have Jeff Bezos. He, we don't think of him as being involved in beauty, but Amazon is the number one online beauty retailer in the U.S. that's huge. So he is like one of the biggest people in the beauty industry. Mark Zuckerberg, you know, famously started Facebook as a hot or not website.
- [70:52]
B
That man's all about beauty.
- [70:54]
A
And I don't think, like, it can be understated the effect that Instagram and its technology and its algorithms have influenced modern beauty standards.
- [71:04]
B
I would argue it's influenced Mark's own beauty standards about himself. Look at his little midlife crisis makeover he's going through.
- [71:11]
A
And I mean, beauty is a huge moneymaker on the app as well. It's like the app has the ability to like push standards on you via the algorithm, lead you into like the shopping thing. It's made influencers out of like dermatologists and cosmetic surgeons. Like, beauty is huge business for Instagram as It is for TikTok. The CEO of TikTok was there as well. Beauty and personal care products are the number one driver of sales on TikTok shop. So in addition to all of like the beauty standards that the algorithm prioritizes, like the products themselves are huge for TikTok. So I think we should be talking about that. And then like you said, the Arnault family, they own Sephora, the world's most powerful beauty retailer. They own Benefit Cosmetics, Fenty Beauty Makeup Forever. And then like all of the high end fashion brands that have cosmetics lines.
- [72:07]
B
Like Dior and Givenchy, big business for those brands as well.
- [72:13]
A
Yeah. So it's like there's a huge beauty industry backing behind this administration. And I just, I don't know, I'm, I'm almost a little frustrated because I have seen so many think pieces about how these executives, in particular, these executives, the ones that I just named, have like influenced culture, are driving young men to the right. Bloomberg did a really big investigation into how like the podcast Bros of the world, who are also all up there behind Trump, like, Joe Rogan and Logan Paul are, like, mobilizing America's men to lean right and. And all of this. And I just think it's a mistake not to also focus on how they're influencing women through their products, through their algorithms, into these same conservative ideals, through oppressive beauty standards. I think that's just as much of a story as the podcast, bro. Part of it is, like, how are these ideals being aesthetically translated through beauty and then, like, fed to women through these same algorithms that we're arguing are, like, destroying American men, you know? Like.
- [73:26]
B
Absolutely. I mean, look, I just. I mean, the most obvious example is the trash wife stuff.
- [73:31]
A
Right.
- [73:32]
B
It was just last year, like, one feeds into the other, so obviously. Yeah. And I mean, Instagram face. I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface on TikTok face. But, you know, there's something about the filters on TikTok and just how realistic you can make them look, and you can, like, tweak and alter your face in real time. I don't know.
- [73:56]
A
Well, I think it's like, that's part of, like, the cyborgian Stepford thing that's going on now is, like, this really sort of uncanny thing where you can't quite pinpoint what's off.
- [74:07]
B
Yeah.
- [74:08]
A
And yet you sort of feel like, okay, this can't be real, but I don't know why. Yeah. So I just. I just think these, like, mostly men who are up there behind the Trump administration who are involved in beauty, like. Yeah, we got to keep an eye on them.
- [74:23]
B
Well, beauty wise. You also just reminded me I just saw the 70s version of the Stepford Wives and highly recommend it.
- [74:31]
A
Oh, I have not seen that one. I need to watch.
- [74:33]
B
I mean, it's, like, totally campy in that very. It's very 1970s, you know, and it's very silly at times, but, like, it's very good, and the underlying message of it is very good and very dark. And, yeah, women don't really win in the end. It's an appropriate, harrowing message, I think.
- [74:56]
A
Yikes. Should we get into the mess of the month?
- [74:59]
B
Let's get into the mess of the month. Speaking of yikes, my mess of this month is Substack, our dear platform itself. Our dear newsletter platform, Substack is quite a mess. And they just keep becoming. It seems more of a mess with every passing week, and I don't really understand why. And it just seems like a lot of avoidable choices over and over again. I guess I'll start with kind of like, the foundational problem that Substack has, which is Nazis, that's kind of a long term one that everyone's known about for a couple of years now, basically. In 2023, the Atlantic wrote a big article highlighting that there were scores, quote, scores of white supremacist newsletters on Substack, many of which prominently featured Nazi symbols, like kind of in their imagery or in their logo. And they weren't hiding it, I guess, is what I'm saying. Even though that, that goes against Substack's terms of service, which say no hate, no pornography, no spam, and no anyone restricted from making money on Substack, whatever that means. I also, I didn't realize that was Substack's terms of service until I was researching this. And I do think that's funny as someone who uses Substack notes, which is full of pornography and spam.
- [76:25]
A
Right.
- [76:26]
B
So I'm just gonna say from, from a non Nazi perspective, they, they are not good at content moderation in kind of a basic way. So it doesn't surprise me.
- [76:36]
A
There's work to be done there.
- [76:38]
B
Yeah. And there's definitely work to be done there, but it turns out that they're actually like not even trying to do any work there. Um, as Hamish, the. One of the founders of the co founders of Substack, responded to kind of the. The proliferation of Nazis on the platform and said, quote, we don't think that censorship, including through demonetizing platforms, makes the problem go away. In fact, it makes it worse, end quote. And it's a little unclear to me, what about demonetizing a publication would make the Nazi problem worse?
- [77:12]
A
Right. I mean, I would assume he means just like feeding the victim narrative that ultimately ends this. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a sensical argument, but that's the one that I've heard.
- [77:27]
B
Yeah.
- [77:28]
A
Made in response to things like this is, you know, adding fuel to the fire kind of.
- [77:34]
B
Well, if you don't allow the fire to even be established on your platform, perhaps it's impossible to add fuel to it. Just a thought. I don't know. That's me being crazy, like anti free speech or whatever. But that's just my thought about it and I actually, I read this really great piece by Max Reed about Substack's Nazi problem. I don't know if you've read that essay that he wrote, but it was basically about like, it was a little bit ago. Yeah. But I don't know, it just came up when I was. I was looking around about this and he put it really in a really great terms about just like what the problem is and like why he's ultimately choosing to stay with the platform for now. But I thought it was really well written. So I will link out to that in the show notes. And then of course, compounding kind of the Nazi problem was Substack's decision to announce that they were partnering with Bari Weiss, who writes the Free Press newsletter, which has turned into like a massive media operation. It was valued at $100 million.
- [78:37]
A
Really?
- [78:38]
B
Yeah, I read that somewhere. I thought that was pretty crazy. But Substack announced that they were going to partner with them basically to give them kind of like custom publishing and like formatting and like layout technology. I'm not even really clear. I also not really clear why they needed to announce. Like, it's one thing to do that. I think it's very different to say, like, we are partnering, this is a partnership, and we are aligning everything that our brand is with everything her brand is.
- [79:06]
A
I kind of on this end, I kind of fall on the Taylor Lorenz side of things where she's just like, Substack needs to stop editorializing their decisions. Like, if you're a business and you're offering services to certain platforms, that's fine, I guess. But to make a big editorial push to advertise who you are aligning with.
- [79:29]
B
Yes.
- [79:30]
A
Aligns your company in a very public way and is really does a disservice to people on the platform who aren't aligned with those interests. And yet because we use it to send out the newsletter, are now, like, publicly linked to, you know, people in views that we don't agree with.
- [79:50]
B
Yes. And Substack also encourages that, like, kind of language of like replacing the word newsletter with your subs. It's not your newsletter, it's your substack. Right. And so it's like you're trying to make us align with a brand that is in turn aligned with something I don't agree with.
- [80:03]
A
That has always been my number one tip for people is like, don't say you have a substack. Never say you have a newsletter.
- [80:09]
B
Yeah. But yeah. So I guess maybe for people who don't know about Barry Weiss, problematic. Some problematic points of views. I mean, she has expressed support for Israel throughout the genocide. She has support for Zionism. I've read on her Wikipedia, she said she believed Christine Blasey Ford's sexual assault allegations against Brett Kavanaugh, but didn't think that it disqualify him from the Supreme Court, which is a pretty wild, nuanced take on the matter. And also, of course, she is just a huge terf.
- [80:45]
A
She is worse than saying you don't believe her.
- [80:48]
B
I know. Isn't that crazy? It's like it's next level kind of vindictive. But, yeah, she's also just a huge terf. And you can read a lot of her anti trans terrible opinions on Substack right now. It is widely available for your perusal. And so, yeah, because of this, I know I personally, and I've heard from other people that I've had people cancel their subscriptions with me because they don't want to give their money to Substack.
- [81:15]
A
Yeah, no, same.
- [81:16]
B
And so Substack is actively losing me revenue because of a partnership they decided to make.
- [81:21]
A
And losing themselves revenue.
- [81:22]
B
Yes, and losing themselves revenue as well. And the pro. I just. It's very bizarre to me, it's a very bizarre professional choice. But that is not their only bizarre professional choice. They also have partnered with Aaron Parnas. Who. Aaron Parnas is big on TikTok and Instagram and social media as kind of like, what do I call him? A talking head.
- [81:48]
A
I'm not familiar.
- [81:50]
B
He basically regurgitates news headlines, but adds breaking news in front of every news headline that he reads in order to spike fear and anxiety in his public and engage them further. Yeah, he's also. I mean, he has tweeted that he is a proud Zionist and he is reposted on TikTok pro Israel propaganda. And Substack announced this month that their new partnership with him. He was the winner of the Liberation Prize.
- [82:22]
A
Don't say it. I hate this name.
- [82:24]
B
The $25,000 Liberation Prize, which is deeply Trump's America coded.
- [82:30]
A
Well, say they have a type when they're looking to partner.
- [82:34]
B
Yeah, they really do have a type when they're looking to partner. For those who don't know, the. The $25,000 liberation prize from Substack was a. A cash prize that they are giving out to anyone on TikTok who, like, could convert the most people from TikTok into sub substack users. I don't even know how they quantified this. How did they even, like, prove anyway? But of course, Aaron Parnas has, like, something like 2 million followers on TikTok, so obviously he was the winner. He was also, I think, like the first person to even post a video doing this. So it was kind of a little rigged from the start about who was going to win all that money. He's also, he's a self proclaimed go to source for news, which is someone who just regurgitates the news from the Internet, I think is an interesting thing to label yourself. And personally, I also just have a personal beef with Substack, which is, do you remember that Vanity Fair story about the woman who was groomed by Cormac McCarthy?
- [83:35]
A
Oh, do I remember. Yes. Augusta Britt.
- [83:40]
B
Iconically, very horribly written. And then for some reason Substack decided that they were going to have that guy write an essay that was like responding to people's negative response to his writing. And then they sent out that essay to every Substack reader. And I just, I am. The fact that they put that in my inbox makes me angry. The fact that I accidentally read like three paragraphs of it before I realized what was going on makes me upset with them. And then of course, their most recent faux pas is the $20 million fund, which sadly doesn't have quite the quippy name as, as the Liberation Prize.
- [84:22]
A
What is it called?
- [84:24]
B
I don't think it has, I don't think it has any, like official.
- [84:26]
A
The New Creator fund.
- [84:28]
B
Yeah, it is probably something like the New Creator Fund. Basically, Substack announced that like from now forward, if you are a big creator on another platform and you move your audience from whatever that platform is to substack full time, you can apply to this $20 million fund where they will financially subsidize you. They will pay for you. Like what if you were making like whatever $10,000 a month over on TikTok, they will pay you $10,000 a month over on Substack so you don't lose any of the revenue by, by switching to their platform. And I just find it, I find it infuriating. I think it's so rude and so crazy when you could be making, you could just be making like small level investments in the writers you already have on your platform who have shown like great growth potential and you could literally change their lives. Like I was just thinking, it's like Substack could pay somebody's rent for a year and change their life and, you know, make having a full time writing job suddenly be a real possibility. And that is such a tiny, teeny, tiny fraction of a $20 million fund.
- [85:40]
A
Right. They probably think they're doing that for everyone in the fund.
- [85:44]
B
But if you are already on TikTok making $10,000 a month on TikTok, you know, because they're asking, they're specifically asking people with huge followings on other platforms to convert to their platform full time. It's like you are already making a solid living as a influencer content creator, what have you. And that's great. You're welcome to come over to Subsect. But I just don't understand where's that same energy for the people who have made Substack the platform that it is now when it could take such a small. You know, I was even thinking, it's like I make YouTube videos, right? Like I pay to rent the equipment that I film the YouTube video. If substack would just pay that I would make more content. I would make more videos. I could make videos exclusive to Substack. Like we could have some sort of agreement where we, we grow together. But like, like they'd rather spend a million bucks on one person to like convince them to give up Instagram or whatever. I don't know. I think it's very strange. And I also just don't understand why, why no writers who are making them all of this money are actually involved in the decision making process.
- [86:52]
A
This I totally am on board with. I think unionized Substack.
- [86:59]
B
I agree. I, you know, I said it, it initially kind of on the platform Semi and Jess. But with each passing week, I increasingly think like we are the makers of all of their revenue and we have no say in the process. To the point you and I have talked about this. Like, I want things fixed that are like, I want to be able to crop my head, photo my main photo of my story and I can't. It's like, why can't I? That seems like such a low, low. Again, it's the same as these micro investments and creators. It's like these seem like such low level lifts to make a radically better product. Like, why not?
- [87:35]
A
No, there's so much that could be done on the back end that would make things, you know, easier for newsletter writers.
- [87:42]
B
And the only people who know that are the people who use it all day, every day.
- [87:46]
A
Yeah, no, I've, I've got a list that I've been working on for 5 years.
- [87:51]
B
Same me too. And I think all people who've been on this platform for five years, you know, have similar complaints and similar issues with Subsex beyond just these terrible brand alignments they're making.
- [88:02]
A
Right. I know it's, it's frustrating.
- [88:06]
B
Anyway, if anyone out there wants to help me unionize Substack, I'm, I'm literally, I'm ready. Please give me guidance. Tell me what's the first thing to do. I'll do it.
- [88:16]
A
I believe in you.
- [88:17]
B
Thank you.
- [88:18]
A
On a slightly lighter note, but still frustrating to me personally. My mess of the month is. Is the Ordinary launching a new science website?
- [88:29]
B
Love science.
- [88:31]
A
So the Ordinary is that like very popular skincare brand. They're everywhere. They're like very affordable and they really have concentrated in the past on like single ingredient products or like single hero ingredients. You know, there's not just one ingredient in skincare product, but it'll be like the glycolic acid peel, the salicylic acid, whatever, the hyaluronic acid.
- [88:51]
B
Right.
- [88:52]
A
So they've always been very big on like we are backed by science, we don't have celebrity faces because they don't have chemistry degrees, blah blah, blah. And like their latest step in this is they've launched what they're calling like a WikiLeaks type site.
- [89:09]
B
Okay.
- [89:09]
A
That supposedly like grants users universal access to scientific white papers that would ordinarily be hidden behind a paywall. So they say they're funding these papers that dispel decade long mistruths surrounding skin care science. The Ordinary continues its democratization of science and accessibility.
- [89:29]
B
I'm sorry, you say they're funding these papers. The or the Ordinary is funding these papers.
- [89:35]
A
I just noticed that as I'm reading these press release out loud. But yeah, it sounds like the Ordinary is funding these papers, which makes me even more mad. If true, will check. But like the reason this bothers me in the first place is just like I just think it's so funny and frustrating that the Ordinary is so focused on science and its messaging when its products just like very famously give a lot of users like chemical burns. There are so like go scan the Sephora reviews for their like peeling products, their exfoliating products and half of them are like this product sucks. It burned off my face. And then half of them are like this product's amazing. It burned off my face. So I know it's working. It's like there's. They just burn off your face and it's up to the consumer if you.
- [90:27]
B
Like it or not.
- [90:28]
A
They're bad. Yeah. There was like a Dazed article a couple months ago from like a reporter being like, I got like second degree chemical burns from the Ordinary and it's just like if you're gonna go in on science, just like make usable products that don't burn people's faces off.
- [90:47]
B
Yeah. I feel like the Ordinary, I'm trying to think of how to word this because it's like they're profiting from some idea and I can't quite pinpoint, but it's like a purity thing almost where it's like, these are the raw ingredients, we're not tainting them and mixing them in ways that you don't understand.
- [91:05]
A
And I think they've done like, irreparable damage to like the consumer mindset of like turning every consumer into their own cosmetic chemist that like, knows what's best for their skin and can like, mix and match the way they want and like, makes everyone feel like an expert and they're not like, yes.
- [91:23]
B
You literally just brought back a memory from like my first experiences interacting with the ordinary where I was looking at the wall of like single products and I was like, but how am I supposed to know, like how to combine these? Like, like this is why I buy products where they're all mixed together because how would. I don't know what all these do or what layers you put them in or like, what reacts with what. Like, why is that up to me?
- [91:49]
A
And I think there's a lot to be said about like the way that they're science washing beauty standards and making these like incredibly sexist, oppressive appearance ideals seem like logical and rational and like what any smart person would do. It's like, no, there's actually no scientific reason why you need to like take an acid to your face once a week and you know, burn off all of your dead skin cells. There's no reason why you can't have hyperpigmentation. There's no, right, healthy scientific reason why your pores shouldn't appear to people like you have pores. Like, these are not, not science standards.
- [92:28]
B
These are beauty standards under the guise of science.
- [92:31]
A
Yeah, it's like a way to like rationalize and make, you know, I don't know, just like age old beauty standards seem fresh and exciting and modern and like medically necessary.
- [92:46]
B
It also feels to me like a way of like, I think that women's interests, like beauty, like fashion often get a rap of kind of being like, like dumb or like frivolous and they.
- [92:58]
A
Want to be legitimized.
- [92:59]
B
Right. And so I feel like the ordinary also kind of like plays off of that like intellectualization of like, you aren't just into skin care. Like you're into the science, like the chemical compound. Yes. You're into cosmetic chemistry. You aren't just like trying to be more beautiful.
- [93:16]
A
Interesting. I think it's done a lot of.
- [93:18]
B
Damage to our psyches, as is everything we've talked about.
- [93:22]
A
Our skin barriers. Yeah.
- [93:24]
B
Both our psyches and our skin barrier are the worst for everything that we spoke about today.
- [93:31]
A
Well, if you made it like, review, subscribe. Say something nice on Apple Podcasts.
- [93:39]
B
Thanks for listening.
- [93:40]
A
Yeah. We'll be back next time with another exclusive paid episode guest.
- [93:46]
B
Yes, another special guest. Otherwise, we will see you at the end of February.
- [93:51]
A
Yep. Huh. All right, bye.