Mess World: "Your Neck Is Saggy (Complimentary)"

Podcast Hosts: Jessica DeFino & Emily Kirkpatrick
Date: October 31, 2025
Summary by Section with Detailed Timestamps

Main Theme

This episode of Mess World features Jessica DeFino (Flesh World) and Emily Kirkpatrick (I <3 Mess) as they tear into October’s fashion and beauty spectacles—most notably, the Kardashians’ latest antics, dubious anti-aging narratives, troubling Fashion Month trends, Emily’s celebrity influence conspiracy, and the limitations of Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl” era. With their usual blend of sharp critique, personal anecdotes, and witty banter, the hosts dissect pop culture’s obsession with beauty, bodily manipulation, celebrity branding, and the narratives we swallow whole.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Technical Difficulties & Visuals Now in Play (00:16–01:35)

The show starts with Emily sharing her disastrous day—DMV adventures, Sephora return issues, and internet outages—setting the candid and relatable tone for the episode.
They joke about going visual, with Jessica vowing not to sip so many drinks on camera (“A Diet Coke sponsorship? Love one. Would honestly love one.” – [01:22] A, [01:25] B).

2. Book Club Theories: Mid Cult & Distinction (02:03–04:07)

The hosts preview their ongoing discussions about "mass cult," "mid cult," and Bourdieu’s “Distinction,” lamenting its density (“It feels almost like reading a different language.” – [03:15] B).
Emphasis on how pop culture theory tangles with everyday consumption and status.

3. Kardashian Stalking & Influence: Emily Feels 'Hunted' (04:09–13:47)

Emily explains her “digital dialogue” with the Kardashians (“Why are the Kardashians so stalking me? Why are they obsessed with me?” – [04:27] B), referencing tabloid jobs and tracking Kylie’s hair for People Magazine.
She’s convinced Kylie has matched her hair color suggestions, feeling like “the Simpsons of the Kardashian universe” ([13:47] B).
Kim’s delayed adoption of Emily’s ideas (face masks, merkin thongs, etc.) is a recurring theme of “too little, too late."

4. Celebrity Branding & Product-as-Fashion Trends (13:47–16:29)

The lip kit outfit discourse: Fashion constructed from beauty products ("There's this weird...shelfie as selfie thing. Like, taking your products out into the world to, like, let them be representative." – [15:04] B).
Emergence of “the self as shelf,” referencing Cocokind purses and phone case spong-con.

5. Celebrity Advisory Services—Emily’s Pitch (16:29–16:29)

Emily jokes about celebs directly hiring her for creative consulting: "Spend it on Emily, spend it on me..." ([16:08] B).

6. The Skims Bush Thong & Industry Responses (16:29–22:34)

Jessica deep-dives into Skims’ faux pubic hair thong and the European Wax Center’s ultra-sanitized marketing response (“We'll take it from here, Kim” – [17:39] A).
They problematize language positioning waxing as “confidence and authenticity,” interrogating what cosmetic “realness” means when all bodies are mediated and modified ([18:54] A, [19:39] B).
Mutual conclusion: the push-pull between waxing and faux-bush products reveals deeper collusion and confusion in beauty marketing ([22:31] A).

7. Fashion Month: Anti-Woman Runways, Dystopia, and the “Entrapment” of Trends (22:44–38:39)

Vanessa Friedman’s critique ("Clothes that hid, confined, muzzled, or even erased the women beneath." – [23:45] B).
Jessica and Emily connect fashion’s anti-woman moment to beauty’s long tradition of prescribing suffering, pointing out how the discomfort only becomes contentious when it targets already-advantaged women (“That is why it’s setting people off.” – [26:06] A).
Discussion of runway trends, body uniformity, the historic Dior “upholstering women” quote, and fashion’s aversion to true inclusivity.

8. Art or Commerce? High Fashion’s Artistic Failures (28:45–30:54)

The difference between “real art” in runway shows and brands just chasing viral moments.
Rant on Duran Lantank’s “rage bait design” at Jean Paul Gaultier: “You’re just kind of being a douche. Like, you’re not…infant terrible” ([30:13] B).
Talk of fashion’s artistic dilution.

9. Clown Couture and Beauty Trends: From Runway to Real Life (41:08–47:22)

Emily’s advocacy for “clown couture” as an apt response to the industry’s mockery of women, referencing Sarah Sherman, Jinkx Monsoon, and the stylist Dot Bass (“Let us be the clowns” – [41:42] B).
Bleeds into beauty with “Pagliacci core,” blush blindness, clown makeup on dating apps, and Julia Fox’s extreme glam looks.
Jessica credits the rise of “clown” beauty and fashion as a subversive, self-aware response.

10. Neck Lift Discourse & Beauty’s Capitalist Trap (49:32–58:20)

Serious critique of a viral Cut “as told to” essay by esthetician Sophie Pavitt about her (relatively hush-hush) neck lift at 41 (“If you’re truly looking for a shift that you can feel but nobody else will notice…try psychoanalysis.” – [58:02] A).
Analysis of post-pregnancy “getting your body back” narratives and the broader capitalist construction of “authenticity” in beauty (“The current you is the false you and must always consume…in order to be authentic.” – [53:44] A).
Recitation of Claire Chambers and Tressie McMillan Cottam on beauty’s illusions of agency.

11. Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show: The Supply Chain of Beauty (58:22–63:27)

Emily reflects on the mountain of hair extensions backstage at the Victoria’s Secret show, bringing in Tressie McMillan Cottam’s essay: “For many Black people, buying hair…is how we experienced immigration…” ([60:29] B).
Critique of beauty’s global labor exploitation, Amazon’s sponsorship, and the “ad-ification” of entertainment.

12. Shark Beauty’s New Facials & the Logic of Purity (65:03–70:47)

Jessica exposes the absurdity of Shark Beauty’s home “Facial Pro Glow” (manufactured by a vacuum company!), calling out marketing for equating skin purity with health: “There really is no way to support your skin barrier while eliminating all your oil and dead skin cells. That is what the barrier is” ([67:01] A).
Pointing to overarching trends of purity, objectification, and the movement of “gunk” as moral hazard in beauty narratives.

13. Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl”: Artifice and Missed Opportunity (70:54–91:10)

Dissecting the failure of Taylor Swift’s new album and imagery to embody the “Showgirl” archetype. (“As the most famous woman on planet...is there no feeling of hollowness or, like, what do I do next?” – [82:05] B)
Contrast with Charli XCX’s “Brat,” which the hosts feel does a far better job of showing both the persona and the vulnerable person beneath.
“Even if I have...everything...I don’t—that’s what’s interesting about the Showgirl: the veneer of having everything and crumbling behind it.” ([82:05] B)
Critique of surface-level vulnerability (“Father Figure” interpolating George Michael) and disappointment in the lack of emotional or aesthetic stakes.

14. Messes of the Month (91:24–99:46)

Emily: Hollywood pumpkin patch photo-ops are disappearing; is it cultural, environmental, or PR collapse? (“There are few seasonal paparazzi traditions...and I haven’t seen one all month.” – [93:05] B)
Jessica: “Wrinkles Week” at The Strategist gets called out as covertly normative and judgmental despite its “non-judgmental” branding (“There is no such thing as nonjudgment in beauty—beauty itself is a judgment.” – [96:52] A).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Kardashian Paranoia: “I realized I am like the Simpsons are to pop culture, I am to this family.” – Emily ([13:47] B)
On Modern Beauty: "If you’re truly looking for a shift you can feel but nobody else will notice...try psychoanalysis." – Jessica ([58:02] A)
On Fashion’s Entrapment: “Suffering and entrapment are the cost of participation...is that not also the undercurrent of fashion at large?" – Emily ([23:54] B)
On Celebrity Consulting: “Do celebrities know that they could pay me? Like, we could really turn it out…” – Emily ([16:08] B)
On Showgirl Aesthetics: “There are usually pretty dire stakes for a showgirl...Taylor Swift, like, has no stakes.” – Jessica ([80:11] A)
On the Fantasy of Agency: “No choice comes from a pure unadulterated soul…everything we want and desire is in response to the world around us.” – Jessica ([55:10] B)
On Wrinkles Week: “Beauty itself is a judgment...so when you say ‘I won’t judge your anti-aging routine,’ you’re treating the judgment that begets anti-aging as a neutral truth.” – Jessica ([97:06] A)

Timestamps for Important Segments

Introduction & Set Up: [00:16–01:35]
Book Club Theory Preview: [02:03–04:07]
Kardashian “Stalking": [04:27–13:47]
Shelfie as Self & Product Fashion: [13:47–16:29]
Emily’s Celebrity Consulting Call: [16:29–16:29]
Skims & Wax Industry Response: [16:29–22:34]
Fashion Week Dystopia: [22:44–38:39]
Art vs. Commerce in Fashion: [28:45–30:54]
Clown Couture Discussion: [41:08–47:22]
Neck Lift/Cosmetic Authenticity Rant: [49:32–58:20]
Supply Chains & Victoria’s Secret Show: [58:22–63:27]
Shark Beauty “Purity” Facials: [65:03–70:47]
Taylor Swift Showgirl Critique: [70:54–91:10]
Mess of the Month: [91:24–99:46]

Tone & Language

Jessica and Emily’s discussion is irreverent, whip-smart, and sometimes a little nihilistic. They oscillate between wry self-deprecation and incisive cultural critique. Their humor and candor invite the audience to question pop culture’s dominant beauty, fashion, and celebrity narratives—while never letting anyone, least of all themselves, off the hook.

Useful for Listeners Who Want:

Sharp, deeply referenced takes on the intersection of fashion, beauty, and social critique
Exhaustive industry and celebrity context (from Kylie’s wigs to Taylor’s missed artistic chances)
Feminist media analysis with citations from Tressie McMillan Cottam, Pierre Bourdieu, and beyond
A witty window into how beauty, branding, and pop culture shape (and are shaped by) consumer desires, anxieties, and illusions

For more:

End of summary.

Mess World: "Your Neck Is Saggy (Complimentary)"

Podcast Hosts: Jessica DeFino & Emily Kirkpatrick
Date: October 31, 2025
Summary by Section with Detailed Timestamps

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Technical Difficulties & Visuals Now in Play (00:16–01:35)

The show starts with Emily sharing her disastrous day—DMV adventures, Sephora return issues, and internet outages—setting the candid and relatable tone for the episode.
They joke about going visual, with Jessica vowing not to sip so many drinks on camera (“A Diet Coke sponsorship? Love one. Would honestly love one.” – [01:22] A, [01:25] B).

2. Book Club Theories: Mid Cult & Distinction (02:03–04:07)

The hosts preview their ongoing discussions about "mass cult," "mid cult," and Bourdieu’s “Distinction,” lamenting its density (“It feels almost like reading a different language.” – [03:15] B).
Emphasis on how pop culture theory tangles with everyday consumption and status.

3. Kardashian Stalking & Influence: Emily Feels 'Hunted' (04:09–13:47)

Emily explains her “digital dialogue” with the Kardashians (“Why are the Kardashians so stalking me? Why are they obsessed with me?” – [04:27] B), referencing tabloid jobs and tracking Kylie’s hair for People Magazine.
She’s convinced Kylie has matched her hair color suggestions, feeling like “the Simpsons of the Kardashian universe” ([13:47] B).
Kim’s delayed adoption of Emily’s ideas (face masks, merkin thongs, etc.) is a recurring theme of “too little, too late."

4. Celebrity Branding & Product-as-Fashion Trends (13:47–16:29)

The lip kit outfit discourse: Fashion constructed from beauty products ("There's this weird...shelfie as selfie thing. Like, taking your products out into the world to, like, let them be representative." – [15:04] B).
Emergence of “the self as shelf,” referencing Cocokind purses and phone case spong-con.

5. Celebrity Advisory Services—Emily’s Pitch (16:29–16:29)

Emily jokes about celebs directly hiring her for creative consulting: "Spend it on Emily, spend it on me..." ([16:08] B).

6. The Skims Bush Thong & Industry Responses (16:29–22:34)

Jessica deep-dives into Skims’ faux pubic hair thong and the European Wax Center’s ultra-sanitized marketing response (“We'll take it from here, Kim” – [17:39] A).
They problematize language positioning waxing as “confidence and authenticity,” interrogating what cosmetic “realness” means when all bodies are mediated and modified ([18:54] A, [19:39] B).
Mutual conclusion: the push-pull between waxing and faux-bush products reveals deeper collusion and confusion in beauty marketing ([22:31] A).

7. Fashion Month: Anti-Woman Runways, Dystopia, and the “Entrapment” of Trends (22:44–38:39)

Vanessa Friedman’s critique ("Clothes that hid, confined, muzzled, or even erased the women beneath." – [23:45] B).
Jessica and Emily connect fashion’s anti-woman moment to beauty’s long tradition of prescribing suffering, pointing out how the discomfort only becomes contentious when it targets already-advantaged women (“That is why it’s setting people off.” – [26:06] A).
Discussion of runway trends, body uniformity, the historic Dior “upholstering women” quote, and fashion’s aversion to true inclusivity.

8. Art or Commerce? High Fashion’s Artistic Failures (28:45–30:54)

The difference between “real art” in runway shows and brands just chasing viral moments.
Rant on Duran Lantank’s “rage bait design” at Jean Paul Gaultier: “You’re just kind of being a douche. Like, you’re not…infant terrible” ([30:13] B).
Talk of fashion’s artistic dilution.

9. Clown Couture and Beauty Trends: From Runway to Real Life (41:08–47:22)

Emily’s advocacy for “clown couture” as an apt response to the industry’s mockery of women, referencing Sarah Sherman, Jinkx Monsoon, and the stylist Dot Bass (“Let us be the clowns” – [41:42] B).
Bleeds into beauty with “Pagliacci core,” blush blindness, clown makeup on dating apps, and Julia Fox’s extreme glam looks.
Jessica credits the rise of “clown” beauty and fashion as a subversive, self-aware response.

10. Neck Lift Discourse & Beauty’s Capitalist Trap (49:32–58:20)

Serious critique of a viral Cut “as told to” essay by esthetician Sophie Pavitt about her (relatively hush-hush) neck lift at 41 (“If you’re truly looking for a shift that you can feel but nobody else will notice…try psychoanalysis.” – [58:02] A).
Analysis of post-pregnancy “getting your body back” narratives and the broader capitalist construction of “authenticity” in beauty (“The current you is the false you and must always consume…in order to be authentic.” – [53:44] A).
Recitation of Claire Chambers and Tressie McMillan Cottam on beauty’s illusions of agency.

11. Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show: The Supply Chain of Beauty (58:22–63:27)

Emily reflects on the mountain of hair extensions backstage at the Victoria’s Secret show, bringing in Tressie McMillan Cottam’s essay: “For many Black people, buying hair…is how we experienced immigration…” ([60:29] B).
Critique of beauty’s global labor exploitation, Amazon’s sponsorship, and the “ad-ification” of entertainment.

12. Shark Beauty’s New Facials & the Logic of Purity (65:03–70:47)

Jessica exposes the absurdity of Shark Beauty’s home “Facial Pro Glow” (manufactured by a vacuum company!), calling out marketing for equating skin purity with health: “There really is no way to support your skin barrier while eliminating all your oil and dead skin cells. That is what the barrier is” ([67:01] A).
Pointing to overarching trends of purity, objectification, and the movement of “gunk” as moral hazard in beauty narratives.

13. Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl”: Artifice and Missed Opportunity (70:54–91:10)

Dissecting the failure of Taylor Swift’s new album and imagery to embody the “Showgirl” archetype. (“As the most famous woman on planet...is there no feeling of hollowness or, like, what do I do next?” – [82:05] B)
Contrast with Charli XCX’s “Brat,” which the hosts feel does a far better job of showing both the persona and the vulnerable person beneath.
“Even if I have...everything...I don’t—that’s what’s interesting about the Showgirl: the veneer of having everything and crumbling behind it.” ([82:05] B)
Critique of surface-level vulnerability (“Father Figure” interpolating George Michael) and disappointment in the lack of emotional or aesthetic stakes.

14. Messes of the Month (91:24–99:46)

Emily: Hollywood pumpkin patch photo-ops are disappearing; is it cultural, environmental, or PR collapse? (“There are few seasonal paparazzi traditions...and I haven’t seen one all month.” – [93:05] B)
Jessica: “Wrinkles Week” at The Strategist gets called out as covertly normative and judgmental despite its “non-judgmental” branding (“There is no such thing as nonjudgment in beauty—beauty itself is a judgment.” – [96:52] A).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Kardashian Paranoia: “I realized I am like the Simpsons are to pop culture, I am to this family.” – Emily ([13:47] B)
On Modern Beauty: "If you’re truly looking for a shift you can feel but nobody else will notice...try psychoanalysis." – Jessica ([58:02] A)
On Fashion’s Entrapment: “Suffering and entrapment are the cost of participation...is that not also the undercurrent of fashion at large?" – Emily ([23:54] B)
On Celebrity Consulting: “Do celebrities know that they could pay me? Like, we could really turn it out…” – Emily ([16:08] B)
On Showgirl Aesthetics: “There are usually pretty dire stakes for a showgirl...Taylor Swift, like, has no stakes.” – Jessica ([80:11] A)
On the Fantasy of Agency: “No choice comes from a pure unadulterated soul…everything we want and desire is in response to the world around us.” – Jessica ([55:10] B)
On Wrinkles Week: “Beauty itself is a judgment...so when you say ‘I won’t judge your anti-aging routine,’ you’re treating the judgment that begets anti-aging as a neutral truth.” – Jessica ([97:06] A)

Timestamps for Important Segments

Introduction & Set Up: [00:16–01:35]
Book Club Theory Preview: [02:03–04:07]
Kardashian “Stalking": [04:27–13:47]
Shelfie as Self & Product Fashion: [13:47–16:29]
Emily’s Celebrity Consulting Call: [16:29–16:29]
Skims & Wax Industry Response: [16:29–22:34]
Fashion Week Dystopia: [22:44–38:39]
Art vs. Commerce in Fashion: [28:45–30:54]
Clown Couture Discussion: [41:08–47:22]
Neck Lift/Cosmetic Authenticity Rant: [49:32–58:20]
Supply Chains & Victoria’s Secret Show: [58:22–63:27]
Shark Beauty “Purity” Facials: [65:03–70:47]
Taylor Swift Showgirl Critique: [70:54–91:10]
Mess of the Month: [91:24–99:46]

Tone & Language

Useful for Listeners Who Want:

Sharp, deeply referenced takes on the intersection of fashion, beauty, and social critique
Exhaustive industry and celebrity context (from Kylie’s wigs to Taylor’s missed artistic chances)
Feminist media analysis with citations from Tressie McMillan Cottam, Pierre Bourdieu, and beyond
A witty window into how beauty, branding, and pop culture shape (and are shaped by) consumer desires, anxieties, and illusions

For more:

End of summary.

Your Neck Is Saggy (Complimentary)

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Summary

Mess World: "Your Neck Is Saggy (Complimentary)"

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Technical Difficulties & Visuals Now in Play (00:16–01:35)

2. Book Club Theories: Mid Cult & Distinction (02:03–04:07)

3. Kardashian Stalking & Influence: Emily Feels 'Hunted' (04:09–13:47)

4. Celebrity Branding & Product-as-Fashion Trends (13:47–16:29)

5. Celebrity Advisory Services—Emily’s Pitch (16:29–16:29)

6. The Skims Bush Thong & Industry Responses (16:29–22:34)

7. Fashion Month: Anti-Woman Runways, Dystopia, and the “Entrapment” of Trends (22:44–38:39)

8. Art or Commerce? High Fashion’s Artistic Failures (28:45–30:54)

9. Clown Couture and Beauty Trends: From Runway to Real Life (41:08–47:22)

10. Neck Lift Discourse & Beauty’s Capitalist Trap (49:32–58:20)

11. Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show: The Supply Chain of Beauty (58:22–63:27)

12. Shark Beauty’s New Facials & the Logic of Purity (65:03–70:47)

13. Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl”: Artifice and Missed Opportunity (70:54–91:10)

14. Messes of the Month (91:24–99:46)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Language

Useful for Listeners Who Want:

Summary

Mess World: "Your Neck Is Saggy (Complimentary)"

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Technical Difficulties & Visuals Now in Play (00:16–01:35)

2. Book Club Theories: Mid Cult & Distinction (02:03–04:07)

3. Kardashian Stalking & Influence: Emily Feels 'Hunted' (04:09–13:47)

4. Celebrity Branding & Product-as-Fashion Trends (13:47–16:29)

5. Celebrity Advisory Services—Emily’s Pitch (16:29–16:29)

6. The Skims Bush Thong & Industry Responses (16:29–22:34)

7. Fashion Month: Anti-Woman Runways, Dystopia, and the “Entrapment” of Trends (22:44–38:39)

8. Art or Commerce? High Fashion’s Artistic Failures (28:45–30:54)

9. Clown Couture and Beauty Trends: From Runway to Real Life (41:08–47:22)

10. Neck Lift Discourse & Beauty’s Capitalist Trap (49:32–58:20)

11. Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show: The Supply Chain of Beauty (58:22–63:27)

12. Shark Beauty’s New Facials & the Logic of Purity (65:03–70:47)

13. Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl”: Artifice and Missed Opportunity (70:54–91:10)

14. Messes of the Month (91:24–99:46)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Language

Useful for Listeners Who Want: