‘Basic Instinct’ Live From SF With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Van Lathan

Summary

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The Rewatchables Live: 'Basic Instinct'

Recorded in San Francisco with Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Van Lathan – April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this energetic live episode, the Rewatchables crew dives deep into Paul Verhoeven’s notorious 1992 erotic thriller "Basic Instinct." Gathering in front of a San Francisco audience, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Van Lathan, and producer Craig Horabeck examine the film’s legacy, its quintessential San Francisco-ness, the impact of its unforgettable sex scenes, and the cultural shockwaves it sent through Hollywood. The conversation veers from classic Rewatchables debate to raunchy humor and thoughtful social critique—making it a raucous, unfiltered tribute to an unshockable '90s classic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Makes a "San Francisco Movie"

• Setting the Stage

  • The panelists agree that true San Francisco films must showcase the city’s hills, fog, water, iconic bridge shots, and unique real estate.
  • Bill Simmons: “Movies that make you feel like you're in San Francisco. My four are: Basic Instinct, Vertigo, Bullet, and 48 Hours.” ([04:29])
  • Other contenders tossed around: Mrs. Doubtfire, The Rock, Dirty Harry, Zodiac, Planet of the Apes, The Game, Star Trek.

• Locals Weigh In

  • Craig: “For me growing up: Mrs. Doubtfire, for sure.” ([06:12])

2. Erotic Thriller “Mount Rushmore”

• The Genre Defined

  • Bill: “Body Heat, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, and Unfaithful. Is that the right four?” ([06:22])
  • Mallory Rubin: “Three of the four we've covered already on Rewatchables, and now—Basic Instinct, for the second time. Very normal pandemic activity." ([06:36])

• Skinemax Era Influence

  • Late-night cable, “prestige freak shit” (Van’s phrase)—name-checking Emmanuel, Red Shoe Diaries.
  • Van Lathan: "This was the stuff that really made me a man." ([08:12])

3. The Cultural Moment and Sexual Awakening

• Personal Discovery
  • The panelists recount their own “initiation” with the film, from awkward solo viewings to the communal experience of renting and rewinding certain scenes.
  • Bill: “I saw this movie in college by myself in Worcester, Massachusetts, during the day...” ([08:22])
  • Chris Ryan/Panel: Reminiscing about missing video store copies, “manipulating the tracking on VHS.”
  • Van: "Sharon Stone, 86 through 92, is like, her and Kathy Ireland are the Bird and Magic of my sexual awakening." ([10:10])
  • Van’s “Sexual Mount Rushmore” includes Sharon Stone, Robin Givens, Janet Jackson (in “Pleasure Principle”), and Pam Grier.

4. Sharon Stone’s Star-Making Turn

• Casting History

  • Sharon Stone was the 13th choice for the role of Catherine Tramell, making $500,000 against Douglas’ $14M.
  • Bill: “He wanted Kim Basinger... Michelle Pfeiffer turned it down.” ([17:17])
  • Mallory Rubin: “They really wanted someone the public already ‘knew’ to weather the blowback.”

• Why is the Role Untouchable Now?

  • The table debates who could play Catherine in the modern era.
  • Suggestions: Margaret Qualley, Sydney Sweeney, both "too self-aware."
  • Van: “This movie careens through its plot with reckless abandon and doesn’t care what anyone thinks.” ([15:35])

5. Michael Douglas: King of the Yuppie Freaks

• Career Assessment

  • Douglas’s run from 1984-2000: Romancing the Stone, Fatal Attraction, Wall Street, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, etc.

  • Van: “He doesn’t mind playing the hero who’s a piece of shit.” ([20:44])

  • Bill: “He’s been in a ton of everyone’s favorite movies, but nobody’s favorite actor.”

  • The “Ass Shot” Competition

    • The 90s were a heyday for male leads showing their butts. Douglas joins Mel Gibson, Costner, Bruce Willis in “displaying the goods.” ([97:03])

6. Intentional (and Unintentional) Comedy

• Vibes Movie

  • Bill: “It’s a Vibes movie. I like being in San Francisco. I like watching them smoke. I like the nightclub scene. Michael Douglas… It’s in the running for funniest performance of the 90s.” ([19:06])
  • The entire club scene with Douglas attempting to look cool is highlighted as “unintentionally hilarious.”

• Verhoeven's Tongue-in-Cheek Approach

  • Van: “Paul Verhoeven movies work because they take themselves incredibly seriously… Starship Troopers is the same; it’s a joke on the audience.” ([19:28])

7. Behind the Scenes: Directing & Filming

• Verhoeven’s Process
  • Mallory: “Verhoeven insisted that everyone knew they had to be naked… Storyboarded the entire thing, filmed the sex scene for five days, 10 hours a day.” ([26:10])
  • Van: “Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone apparently were not super close during filming.” ([26:44])
  • Sharon Stone’s later revelations about not consenting to the infamous leg-cross shot, sparking debate about directorial ethics and industry practices. ([51:01])

8. The Famous Scenes—And Their Legacy

• The Interrogation / Leg-Cross Scene

  • Described as “probably the most famous moment of the '90s,” analyzed for its impact, craft, and the power shift it represents.
  • Van: “That scene has to establish how dangerous Catherine is, but also how irresistible.” ([48:03])
  • Quotes:
    • Catherine: “Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick? It’s nice.” ([46:45])
    • Bill: “What are you going to do, arrest me? What, for smoking?” ([46:31])

• Rewatchable Scenes

  • Nightclub scene: “Nick’s the oldest guy in the club by, I’m gonna say 16 years, wearing a V-neck his aunt gave him for Christmas.” ([52:42])
  • Sex scenes: Highlighted for their athleticism, infamy, and lasting pop-cultural impact.
  • Mallory Rubin: “Some of the most guttural orgasm sounds ever committed to public record on film.” ([55:02])

9. Problematic Elements & 1992 Context

• SFPD Incompetence

  • Mockery of the blatantly bad policing, evidence handling, and plot holes—often played for laughs.
  • Bill: “Single worst cop performance ever by a cop in a movie.” ([86:17])

• Changing attitudes toward movie sex, nudity, and evidence handling

  • The panel discusses how sexual content has migrated from the big screen to the internet and streaming, and notes how a movie that once shocked mainstream culture would be almost impossible to make, or to shock, today.
  • DNA and forensics timeline: the film is outdated even by contemporaneous standards, but audiences at the time "barely believed" DNA. ([74:42])

10. Awards, Nitpicks, and Lasting Legacy

• Oscar Snub

  • Bill: “Sharon Stone not nominated for an Oscar for this movie!” ([18:15])
  • Panel looks back at the 1992 Academy Awards and grieves her omission.

• Freeze-Frame, “That Guy” & Dion Waiters Awards

  • The panel gleefully issues classic Rewatchables awards for Best Real Estate (Catherine’s house), Best Supporting (Roxy), and Best Overacting (Douglas).
  • Freeze-frame moments: the infamous leg-cross; “side dick” and other scenes where viewers have historically hit pause.

• Apex Mountain

  • Bill: “Sharon Stone, yes. Joe Eszterhas, yes. Michael Douglas, no. Ceiling sex mirrors? Maybe.” ([95:41])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Bill Simmons:

  • “Every time after class… I was soloing in different spots of the theater.” (09:00)
  • “The nightclub has so much going on… [Douglas] is the oldest guy by 16 years and he’s wearing a V-neck his aunt gave him for Christmas.” (52:41)
  • “I think this is the single worst cop performance ever by a cop in a movie.” (86:17)

• Van Lathan:

  • “Sharon Stone, 86 through 92, is like, her and Kathy Ireland are the Bird and Magic of my sexual awakening.” (10:10)
  • “This movie careens through its plot with reckless abandon and it doesn’t really care what anyone thinks about it.” (15:35)
  • “He doesn’t mind playing the hero who’s a piece of shit. He’s a yuppie freak.” (20:44)

• Mallory Rubin:

  • “Some of the most guttural orgasm sounds ever committed to public record on film.” (55:02)
  • “As a middle-aged person, the angling of the back—are my hips properly aligned so I won’t wake up with lower back pain?” (56:16)
  • “I think the life lesson is: wash your sheets.” (111:44)

• Chris Ryan:

  • “We were like Dan Orlovsky breaking down tape once it hit the video store.” (09:50)
  • “When does Catherine write? She writes Shooter in a matter of weeks, but most of the time she’s having sex, doing cocaine, or driving around San Francisco.” (101:36)

• Audience Participation & Panel Chatter

  • The frequent running gag about “side dick” moments and bedroom ceiling mirrors.
  • Van, riffing on 90s movie sex: “She scratches his shit like Wolverine is seeing Magneto.” (85:57)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• San Francisco Movie Discussion: [04:00] – [07:00]
• Erotic Thriller Genre Mount Rushmore: [06:16] – [08:14]
• Sexual Awakening & Cultural Impact: [10:10] – [11:54]
• Casting What-Ifs and Sharon Stone’s Breakout: [15:41] – [18:32]
• Interrogation Scene / Leg Cross Analysis: [46:00] – [51:19]
• The Nightclub Scene: [52:42] – [54:45]
• Best/Worst Awards & Rewatchable Categories: [62:39] – [99:06]
• Nitpicks & Plot Holes: [100:37] – [104:03]
• Apex Mountain & Legacy: [95:41] – [98:16]
• Audience Q&A and Wrap-up: [108:00] – [114:52]

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Conclusion & Lasting Takeaways

• "Basic Instinct" remains the Platonic ideal of the erotic thriller—a genre-definer that turbo-charged Sharon Stone to stardom, solidified Michael Douglas’ brand as the “yuppie freak,” and proved Paul Verhoeven’s talent for provocative, wildly self-aware cinema.
• The cast agrees: the film is deeply “of a moment,” capturing '90s excess, anxieties, and unfiltered sexuality in a way that would be difficult—maybe impossible—to recreate in today's Hollywood.
• Chris Ryan/Q&A: “This movie is just elite entertainment. We didn’t know how good we had it in the early 90s… This would be the achievement of the decade if it came out now.” (113:06)
• Best of all, it showcases San Francisco as a true character—a beautiful, decadent, dangerous city—never to be called ‘San Fran’.
• Mallory Rubin, on the legacy: “That’s its legacy. Michael Douglas saying ‘I don’t remember how often I used to jerk off, but it was a lot. Also, important: calluses, San Francisco’s beauty, and that.” (114:06)
• Winner of the movie: Sharon Stone, by unanimous decision.

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“You can't fake San Francisco.” — Van Lathan ([113:52])

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Transcript

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[Bill Simmons]

this episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. All right, Last time you heard this song, it was a cocaine threesome in a bathroom followed by some dancing. And now we are here, you horny motherfuckers. Let me introduce the Rewatchables cast. First of all, thank you everybody for coming out tonight. This theater is awesome.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that third deck up there. It's great. First off, he's the curator of the White Girl hall of Fame. He's currently hosting a record 17 different Ringer podcasts. The next mayor in Los Angeles, Van Lathan. You know her as the mother of dragons. She's a woman who really likes hands and fingers. She's almost definitely gonna violate a public obscenity law. Tonight, Mallory Rubin. He's the five time Rewatchables mvp. He's the man who turned March into CR Month. He's the author of three books about medals, CR himself, Chris Rya, And over on the side, for the first time ever, joining us for a live show, our producer, the guy who's taken over this podcast after I'm found naked and dead like Johnny Boz. Craig Horabeck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Do you like that, Ciara?

[Van Lathan]

I do. I like the idea also that you're not killed by a beautiful blonde, but by a Lakers fan.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you. Let's talk most San Francisco movies ever.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Cr. We talked about this earlier. I think the necessities are hills, water, sure shots of the bridge and nice real estate. Anything else? What do you got?

[Van Lathan]

I just think that the sky, the light, the fog, there's an atmospheric element that San Francisco movies tend to bring into play. I mean, you've got some real. We were talking about how hard it is to move anything off of Mount Rushmore for these.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So we got. We were thinking, like, movies that actually use the city. And it's really cool doing this in San Francisco, obviously. Movies that make you feel like you're in San Francisco. My four are Basic Instinct, Vertigo, Bullet, Cause of the Car chase, and then 48 hours. My favorite movie ever. Van, what else would you put in there? Cause I could offer you Mrs. Doubtfire. I could offer you the Rock, Pacific Heights, the Game. Anything else?

[Ben]

What about, like, Dirty Harry? Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Could offer you Dirty Harry.

[Ben]

Dirty Harry was here. Yeah, man. As a matter of fact, I just want to let you guys know, they're lying about your city. When I came out here, I expected to see Batman patrolling the streets like, it's fucking gorgeous.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Honestly. San Francisco's back. We walked from our hotel to the Giants game last night. San Francisco's in great shape. I don't. Not listening to the Bulls anymore.

[Van Lathan]

And the Phillies lost.

[Mallory Rubin]

Phillies lost.

[Bill Simmons]

Mallory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tough to see on Mallory.

[Van Lathan]

October or not. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What else do you have for San Francisco?

[Mallory Rubin]

Naturally, you're missing a little bit of a genre presence. No Ant Man. You know, you didn't have the MCU on your list. Planet of the Apes. No. Star Trek.

[Bill Simmons]

Apes is a good one.

[Ben]

Star Trek.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's good. What's your favorite?

[Mallory Rubin]

I have a similar Mount Rushmore to you, I think I'd say it's probably Bullet, Zodiac, this movie, basic instinct, and Mrs. Doubtfire. For me,

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you're the only one that grew up here.

[Craig Horabeck]

I grew up in the East Bay, but yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. All right. So what's the most San Francisco movie

[Craig Horabeck]

ever for me growing up? Mrs. Doubtfire, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Well, we have a more important Mount Rushmore, the erotic thriller. Mount Rushmore?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, boy.

[Bill Simmons]

Which? The unassailable choices are Body Heat, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, and Unfaithful. Unfortunately, we have the Mother of Dragons here to weigh in. Is that the right four? Is there anyone else you would put in Nine and a Half Weeks. What Else.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we've done three of those four together for rewatchables, and now we're doing this one together for the second time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's right.

[Bill Simmons]

A rebatch.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nice. Yeah. That's how three of the five of us got through the first month of COVID was learning how to podcast remotely, talking about this movie. Very normal podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

It was on Zoom three weeks after Covid started. I honestly don't even remember one aspect

[Mallory Rubin]

of what I remember any of it saying, I'll do that if I ever see you guys again in person.

[Craig Horabeck]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. He was using the pandemic as a shield to make all of these declarations about how he'd start wearing deep V neck sweaters with no T shirt on and doing cocaine in the bathroom stall at the nightclub.

[Bill Simmons]

So, Van, this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Show me the nightclub. You know, the night's young.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie jump starts the erotic thriller Skin and Max era.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I guess technically starts with night eyes in 1990 with Andrew Stevens. I know you own it. On 4K. Blu Ray.

[Ben]

Yeah. Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Silk stockings on CBS. No nudity.

[Ben]

But very important. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Basic Instinct. We have Shane and Tweed and Shane and Warrior about to come into our lives.

[Ben]

All of them.

[Bill Simmons]

What else do you remember from this era?

[Ben]

I remember, like, staying up late, making sure that my parents were asleep. I was by myself, having a great time. Emmanuel, all the different Emanuels. I have a list later. It's like, y' all know I'm not by myself, but you know, Ret Shoe Diaries. Fucking freak.

[Bill Simmons]

You Ret Shoe. Yeah.

[Ben]

All of that stuff. Because what happened was this is prestige. Freak shit. Basic Instinct. That's not. I could get to that.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Ben]

That was in a movie theater. But then the freak shit that came on later on, you know, that was the stuff that was accessible to me. That's what really made me a man.

[Bill Simmons]

Ciara and I have had very different experiences with this movie. Cause I saw this movie in college by myself in Worcester, Massachusetts, during the day.

[Ben]

Wait a second.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Don't let that slide.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I saw this movie in college by myself.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Every time after class.

[Ben]

Every story he tells from him in college. Ah. Was me, house and Joe King. We were all hanging out, but he made them leave.

[Bill Simmons]

It was a solo.

[Mallory Rubin]

How many empty seats between you and the next guy who was also jerking off throughout the entire movie.

[Ben]

Extra butter.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember a lot other than that. There were no couples, and I'm gonna say between 16 and 18 guys soloing in different spots of the theater.

[Mallory Rubin]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

And the feedback or the stuff that was coming out about this movie. First of all, we knew, like, the nude scenes were off the chain. We knew Sharon Stone was the lady from Total Recall and some Action Jackson movies we liked. And then there was supposedly this. This female frontal thing that you didn't know what it was. So it was a little like the shark in Jaws waiting to see what was going to happen.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but if you didn't know you were going to get a shark in Jaws, it was just a rumor.

[Bill Simmons]

And honestly, cr, this movie went way further than I was prepared. But you saw it younger than me because you're younger than me.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. We were like Dan Orlovsky breaking down tape with us once they hit the video stores. There was a lot of missing copies of this, and there was a lot of probably, like, you know, manipulating the tracking on your VHS machine. So this was. This was a Hall of Fame rental.

[Bill Simmons]

How did this help you through puberty?

[Van Lathan]

I was thinking about this. Sharon Stone, 86 through 92, is like, her and Kathy Ireland are the bird and magic of my sexual awakening.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who would you throw in, Van? I got a list.

[Ben]

All right, so at the bottom of the list, all the ladies from the various Emanuel movies. Emmanuel, Queen of the Desert. Emmanuel in Space Black Emanuel, Emmanuel in Bangkok. They had Emanuel for every fucking flavor that you needed. All right, number four, Sharon Stone and Basic Instinct.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Number three, Robin Givens in A Rage in Harlem. Number two, Janet Jackson in the Pleasure Pinchable video. Come on, man. Number one, Pam Grier.

[Bill Simmons]

Foxy Brown.

[Ben]

My mom. That's what I'm talking about. My mom actually made me get into Pam Grier and Foxy, but my mother suggested I watch that. You know why? Because of Basic Instinct.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

My mom thought that she was gonna lose me to the white women, and she was like. So she's like, thought she was raising Cupid, Billy Jr. And she goes,

[Craig Horabeck]

you

[Van Lathan]

ever seen Foxy Brown?

[Ben]

Cause she knew those could be back to the black side of the situation. Shout out to mama.

[Bill Simmons]

Mission accomplished. Well, we have a rewatchables award named after a character in this movie, the Catherine Trammel. Would you throw your life away for this obvious stay away award? Cr. If someone said to you, I'm writing a book about a podcast who falls in love with the wrong woman. And it was Sharon Stone in this movie. Are you just like, I'm going to be dead in four weeks.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, it's less than four weeks. I think that this movie actually has multiple candidates for this, though. Like, watching It. This time around, I would toss it all away for Beth. I mean, that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. What about Roxy?

[Van Lathan]

Beautiful lady, but also free therapist. You know, like.

[Bill Simmons]

And Roxy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, and Roxy, of course. Yeah.

[Ben]

It's easily Roxy, man.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So I was gonna talk about this later. Cause we gotta get into Sharon Stone, but Roxy just comes and goes. She's in this movie and she's the cop stripper in Days and Thunder. Never seen again. You look at her IMDb, it's like she just. I don't know what happened, but if you just saw this movie, you would have thought she was gonna be as big of a star as Sharon Stone. Or at least close. Oh, no. At least for me.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you saw this movie now, you definitely would think that's a person who's gonna be responsible for generating a lot of memes.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which is powerful in its own way. But Sharon Stone, you watch this movie and you're like, this is the most powerful force of nature. Like a hurricane in human form. That's not exactly what Roxy is giving. She's giving.

[Bill Simmons]

Roxy provoked different emotions.

[Ben]

You know, I never went for the Sharon Stone types.

[Van Lathan]

You mean the Katherine Tramell types or just Sharon Stone?

[Ben]

No, what I mean is that, like, you go to the club with your

[Bill Simmons]

boys, I'm gonna buckle up.

[Ben]

And everyone goes, yo, we gotta have this girl. I would always look at her friend. I'd be like, her friend is the one that's not getting any attention. She's looking at her friend on the dance floor. She's pissed off. She's like, look at all them motherfuckers looking at her. I wish I was her. And then I come over and I validate her. I go, girl, you are her. That's Roxy.

[Van Lathan]

Somebody just needed to validate her.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A quote in this movie about the Sharon Stone character, Mallory. I love it. She's got 100 million bucks. She fucks fighters and rock and roll stars. And she's got a degree in screwing with people's heads. And that's not the craziest thing said about her during this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

No. Or the craziest thing that she says. I mean, the quotes in this movie are astonishing. One of the wonderful colleagues, Elizabeth Live Events head that rockstar. Our own rockstar hasn't seen this movie. We were backstage with her, and I was thinking, wouldn't it be fun if we did, like, a. Is this a real quote from this movie? Game with her? Right? Because, like, you could break out. Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick? It's nice and Then you could break out. There's cum all over these sheets. Right. And you would get like 45 lines.

[Van Lathan]

That's not how he says it all over.

[Bill Simmons]

There's gotta.

[Mallory Rubin]

Before he got off. Impressive.

[Bill Simmons]

That would've been a fun game show.

[Mallory Rubin]

We could have gone 150 lines deep before we even had to put the first fake quote in there. It's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Elizabeth does the live shows for us and she always watches the movie and the flight to the location. And we were like, no, no, not this time.

[Mallory Rubin]

You need a privacy screen.

[Bill Simmons]

Please though. Who is like, what actress now, Van would be the Sharon Stone that you would cast in this movie?

[Ben]

Interesting question.

[Bill Simmons]

Because this does feel generational. Right. Like we go through. Because there was a Kathleen Turner phase where she would have been in it.

[Ben]

So this movie came at a different time. Okay. We have penises now. This movie came out when we had dicks.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Completely different. We didn't have to pretend like it was something nice about what was happening. It was aggressive, it was primal. Now I'm trying to think who could bring that energy, who could do that and not give a fuck, you know, not care. Maybe like Margaret Qualley. Maybe she's a little bit like that, you know, I don't know. It's different now because if you make the movie now, everyone's gonna be so self aware of everything that's happening. This movie kind of like careens through its plot with reckless abandon and it doesn't really care what anyone thinks about it. It would be difficult to, like, cast somebody in that role and have them just be completely free.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know we, like always end up picking the same person, but is it not Sydney Sweeney? Is it not?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, obviously she could pull it off. I think so. Here's the difference. Here's the difference, though, with Sharon Stone and why this movie was so important to her. She had popped in stuff, but we didn't really have a history with her. She did too.

[Van Lathan]

She had been in a bunch of stuff. She was an Action Jackson.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And I remember she was in Irreconcilable Differences, which is a great divorce movie, which is not available anywhere. But she was that in 1982 and for 10 years was just bouncing around. What was the Alan Quartermaine one?

[Van Lathan]

Steven Seagal.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she was in a Seagal movie. And just Total Recall was probably the biggest movie that she was in. Right. She's great in that. So this was kind of her moment. I don't know who that actress is now.

[Ben]

The point is that at this juncture in her career. She was hungry enough to do a movie like this and not hold anything back. So if we talk about actresses that are in that situation now, we're gonna talk about more established actresses. But this is like a controversial role. You have to really go a lot of places that, you know, could end up really being combustible for your career, like it was for Elizabeth Berkley and Showgirls, or it could make you like it did for Sharon Stone in Basic Incident.

[Bill Simmons]

So they get Michael Douglas for $14 million for this movie, and then he gets kind of semi approval for who the female star's gonna be. Sharon stone was the 13th choice. She made $500,000, which was less than 14 million in part, though, because of

[Mallory Rubin]

what you're just saying, right? Like, he really wanted somebody who was equally famous and renowned to kind of. They were anticipating that it would be controversial.

[Bill Simmons]

He wanted Kim Basinger, right?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

He was like, I need somebody who's gonna be able to shoulder the load of the blowback.

[Van Lathan]

And I was like, do you remember the load? You see it now when you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Plenty of blowback in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

When you go on and read about, like, its release now. She's such a wild card because she's kind of like, I have nothing to lose. So she's saying crazy shit in interviews and she's, you know, her vibe is not like, I'm a well established star. I know exactly what I'm doing. She's kind of like, I'm blowing this pot stand before I get out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they offered it to Michelle Pfeiffer who said no. And thank God, because I think that might have actually killed me if she was in this movie. I'd be dead. I don't know who's hosting this. It wouldn't be me. It would be somebody else. CR. Sharon Stone not nominated for an Oscar for this movie.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm sorry, April.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll give you the nominees.

[Van Lathan]

Please do.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Emma Thompson wins for Howards End. Catherine Deneuve for Indochine. Is that how you say it?

[Van Lathan]

Imogene? Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Mary McDonald for Passionfish. Michelle Pfeiffer for Love Field. And Susan Sarandon for Lorenzo's Oil.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we could have snuck Sharon in there, guys.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, who else could have done the. This movie made $356 million.

[Van Lathan]

This is a useful place to ask this. Do you take this movie seriously?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a great time. My wife hates it. Cause I love throwing It. You've said this a million times. It's a Vibes movie.

[Van Lathan]

It is a Vibes movie for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I like being in San Francisco. I like watching them smoke. I like the nightclub scene. Michael Douglas, who we're gonna get to in a second. It's in the running for funniest performance of the 90s.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's amazing. It's a story.

[Bill Simmons]

He doesn't know it's funny, but everyone else knows it's hilarious. And it's just a fun movie to hang out with.

[Van Lathan]

This run of Paul Verhoeven movies works because even Paul Verhoeven is like, we need to make this funny movie incredibly seriously.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Starship Troopers is kind of the same thing. I think they all know they're in this insane movie about.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think Douglas does.

[Van Lathan]

What's that?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think Michael Douglas knows that.

[Ben]

This is.

[Van Lathan]

I think Michael Douglas knows. I think he's like, for this to work, I have to 100% commit. But if you read that script, you're like, this is Pulp bullshit. And it's hilarious.

[Bill Simmons]

He's 47 when he makes the movie. Wow.

[Ben]

I still got time.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, boy.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably should have been a younger actor would be my take.

[Ben]

Come on, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Ben]

What are you talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

You say no on that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, first of all, I support an age difference, as you know, you know, among consenting adults. But I think there's something about Nick being in like a midlife crisis that's actually pretty important. He's had a marriage. His wife killed herself. He has committed four shootings in five years.

[Bill Simmons]

He was undercover.

[Mallory Rubin]

He has to have the Runway that much light.

[Ben]

Yeah. You can't have like a 25 year old whippersnapper on the force. You need somebody with some redneck ledger in this.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Here's the thing. He is one of the biggest movie stars who throughout his career, routinely takes a chance with the way the audience sees him and is like, I don't mind playing the hero who's a piece of shit. And he's like, not. He's the main star of Wall Street. You know, he does these things where he's like, I'll push my boat out and make sure we people have a really provocative experience.

[Mallory Rubin]

When you say, like, how the audience sees him, do you mean specifically him walking toward a bass in a mirror with his throat swinging so that his ass.

[Ben]

And like, consider the time. Right. So you're in a Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, which we're gonna talk a little bit about that later. Time where all of those guys are kind of competing to be the all American movie star. And really his lane is being a freak.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's a fucking freak.

[Van Lathan]

A yuppie freak. He's full of disclosure.

[Ben]

He's a freakin.

[Bill Simmons]

This.

[Ben]

He's a fucking freak. And Fatal Attraction. This motherfucker's a freak. And no one else really wants to do it. He'll do it. He's great at it. And he kind of makes his career at least the second half of it on that.

[Bill Simmons]

He's been in a lot of rewatchables movies. He's not anyone's favorite actor, but he's been in a ton of everybody's favorite movies.

[Van Lathan]

Wouldn't it be weird to meet a Michael Douglas superfan?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. This is my guy, me and Mike. But I mean, my site, mikeydougpan.com from 84 on, he rips off Romance in the Stone, Jewel of the Nile, Chorus Line, Fatal Attraction, Wall Street Wins the Oscar, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, Falling Down, Disclosure, American President, Ghost in Darkness, the Game, Perfect Murder, Wonder Boy's Traffic.

[Ben]

Yo.

[Bill Simmons]

Fucking crazy nuts.

[Ben]

That is. That's amazing work.

[Van Lathan]

And with the producer, American President is the weird movie in that group.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, right.

[Van Lathan]

I keep waiting for the American President to be like, jerking off under the Resolute desk. But he's like, no, I'm just a really good guy.

[Bill Simmons]

It's in the. It's on the extended Blu ray.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Director's cut.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you're younger than us. What's your relationship with Michael Douglas? Just wandering into this after the fact.

[Craig Horabeck]

I don't even think I have one. I don't know what to go to. Michael Douglas role. I asked my wife, Liz. I'm like, what's your opinion on Michael Douglas? Like, did you ever think he was hot? And she's like, honestly, no. He's just kind of a creep. Was Michael Dou ever, like, a top three love interest in Hollywood?

[Ben]

Man? Let me tell you, for my mom.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah, my mom.

[Ben]

I was about to say my mom used to look at F attraction and be like, I see what she was going on about.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at that.

[Van Lathan]

Harrison Ford dark side. Harrison Ford?

[Craig Horabeck]

No way.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, because Harrison Ford is God, Darren. You can't say anyone is any version of.

[Van Lathan]

I asked the wrong person.

[Mallory Rubin]

Get the out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you thinking?

[Mallory Rubin]

What's wrong with you? But Harrison Ford, Costner, Douglas, Gere, those were the men who my mom was, like, obsessed with and loved. And Michael Douglas was the one who didn't quite catch for me. In terms of being, like, sexually obsessed with him, though, I will tell you guys that when I booted up this movie to prepare to rewatch it, to prepare for this live show, there's a pretty famous moment in this movie that I think a lot of people pause on. Right. You might. Well, it'll come up tonight. I think I had paused at a different moment. I booted up the director's cut, and it was at 1 hour, 11 minutes and 43 seconds, which is the side cock shot during the fuck of the century scene. So I guess that was where I had just checked in, booted it up at some point, taken a look, paused it left, and there it was waiting for me.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that was in between?

[Mallory Rubin]

I was watching it with my husband. That's seems right. Probably. Yeah. I mean, it was six years ago. The last rewatchables. I've definitely looked at that since. No question.

[Ben]

You.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought we were going to do side later.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we can. We can come back to them. Don't worry.

[Bill Simmons]

One thing about Douglas, because he was also a producer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good timing on when to jump in on a movie that's kind of paralleling whatever's happening in real life. Like even you go back to China syndrome, which he's in, which was like, right when everyone's afraid of nuclear war in the late 70s. Wall street is the. Greed is good. Basic Instinct, big fear of AIDS, early 90s. And in the research, one of the things he really wanted to do with this movie was push the envelope sexually the other way in movies. And then Disclosure was another one with workplace brass. But he just over and over again had really good taste, I would say. Sure.

[Van Lathan]

That's one way of putting it.

[Mallory Rubin]

A framing.

[Bill Simmons]

Mallory saw what was the documentary you saw with the storyboarding.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, there's a bonus featurette called, I believe, Blond Poison. Yeah, Blond Poison, the making of Basic Instinct, which is about 30ish minutes. A good chunk of it at the end is about actually the protests of the film by LGBT groups. And I would say the first, like 15 to 18 minutes before that are largely Paul Verhoeven, the director. The director, talking about how he just insisted very clearly that everybody understood that they had to be naked in the movie and that they had to follow the exact game plan for the sex scenes because he had diagrammed them very precisely and then intercut with his comic book.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna hold up one for you, Gu.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Paul Verhoeven's work right there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pretty special. Pretty special.

[Bill Simmons]

So he storyboarded the entire thing. They spent five days filming Fuck of the Century.

[Mallory Rubin]

Five. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he was so concerned that they were gonna make him cut stuff and make it an X rating or whatever. He wanted to be covered in every way, shape or form.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And they filmed for five days, 10 hours a day, a 90 second sex scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you're watching the director's cut, it's a little longer. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And also Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone apparently were not like super close during the making of this, which makes it all the more interesting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Close in what way?

[Van Lathan]

Well, I mean, I think that there wasn't a lot of Coffee Corner, like just chit chat about, like, he didn't

[Ben]

want her to be in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Was that.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Like they had gone through a bunch of people and he was concerned because he's making this movie where he's gotta play a killer, coke addicted cop. And he wanted an A list actress to share that burden with him and get it over the finish line. And all of them looked at the script and was like, you fucking crazy? I'm not doing this. And so then, like, they got Sharon Stone. But he was a little bit trepidatious about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Dan, I hesitate to ask you this. If you were filming with Sharon Stone for five straight days, for 10 hours a day, just with small genital pads on, how would that go by, like, Wednesday?

[Ben]

What do you mean? Well, see, I always wondered this. Cause, like, first of all, you have

[Mallory Rubin]

to respond and say, the genital pad wouldn't be small. He set you up there. You have to come in and say that. But they were also not wearing genital pads. They are famously completely naked filming these.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Oh, so they're naked filming.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought they did have. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Also, to Mal's point, watch this featurette. Here's a quote from the director of this movie. I wanted to really see oral sex. I wanted to see how he sucks her tits. I wanted to see all that.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you, everybody.

[Mallory Rubin]

Good night.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how they do it. I guess that's why they act for a living. Really.

[Van Lathan]

None of us have seen this behind the scenes. And I'm not entirely sure she's not like, making this up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because I looked for it online and I was like, huh, Block poison.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't find this.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'll send it to you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, please do.

[Mallory Rubin]

I send you the storyboard pictures. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The weird thing is also there's like, stories that the actors told that Verhoeven was like. He would be like, okay, here's. Here's what we're going to do. Here's the blocking. And then they would show up day of and he would be like, psych, cure all my news storyboards. And he would be like, calling hot routes on gene triple horn. Like, I. I don't know. I technically verb, but yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Verhoeven, Robocop, Total Recall Base against stakes. Starship Troopers.

[Van Lathan]

What a girl.

[Bill Simmons]

Just four of the many. Just a pervy Dutch guy, I think would be the best way to describe him. Love pushing the envelope. Love to put stuff in there. Kind of making fun of Americans. And we didn't realize it as we loved the movies. Didn't realize he was flipping it on us. What's his apex mountain for movies? C.R.

[Van Lathan]

i think in retrospect, it's Starship Troopers. I think so in some ways.

[Ben]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

I think that has, like, a better reputation than Basic Instinct.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. What do you think, Ben?

[Ben]

I think it's easily Basic Instinct. I think it's not even close. I think Starship Troopers has. He has this ability to elevate, I guess, what people would consider to be like, trash or really accessible kind of stories. But Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon. It was a movie that, like, legitimately. My mom and them went to see it and they came back and they was like, girl, was you just stabbing with that ice pick what's going on? Like, it was a movie that you absolutely had to talk about. And really, as much as Fatal Attraction got this genre started in a major way. Yeah, this kind of solidified the genre as a money maker and as something that could like, be star making for Sharon Stone. Like, you would approach these movies differently after Basic Instinct because you knew that doing one and taking the risk and taking the chances and in, like, putting yourself out there on film like that could end up in making you a star, which is what this movie did for Sharon Stone. So she did all of this stuff and then it paid off. So I think this is probably his magnum opus, in my opinion.

[Bill Simmons]

I also think it's fair to say that there weren't really characters like this until this movie. Like these kind of powerful female in control of the relationship like this.

[Ben]

Look at Susan B. Anthony over here.

[Bill Simmons]

This became something that a lot of movies tried to do, but I don't know who tried to do it before this movie. I can't really think of one.

[Van Lathan]

Can you see her a femme fatale like this? No. I mean, like, not this explicitly and this violently.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause, like, Body Heat did it, right? Sure. And that was 10 years earlier. And there's some Other ones over the years. But I think this jump started then. What was interesting about this movie is all the ripoff terrible movies that tried to, you know, Brigade, Color of Night participated in. Yeah, yeah, Sliver. I've seen them all. I know Van has them all on Blu Ray. This movie had people protesting various parts of it. Like they couldn't even decide what to protest. Sharon Stone hosted SNL in April 92 and six people disrupted that and actually disrupted the monologue and they had to change it. But people are pretty pissed off for a variety of reasons about this movie. Joe Esterhaus was the writer $3 million got for the script. There was a bidding war from Carol Ko Productions. So if anyone has ever listened to the Rewatchables, probably our favorite production company more or less. Stallone, Seagal, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classics based against the funding from crime. Craig's nodding happily over there.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah, a lot of cocaine.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, lot of cocaine. Esserhas is basically in a competition with Shane Black, who we just talked about on Nice Guys.

[Bill Simmons]

He.

[Van Lathan]

These two are like basically trading back and forth the all time richest screenplay deal for like five years, right?

[Bill Simmons]

And then Esther House gets mad because Verhoeven's putting all this extra stuff in the movie. Ends up walking off the set. $49 million budget made 353 million. The fourth highest grossing movie of 1992.

[Craig Horabeck]

That would be 800 million today.

[Van Lathan]

This would be Project Hail Mary today.

[Mallory Rubin]

Amaze.

[Ben]

Amaze for aggressive R rated erotic theater.

[Bill Simmons]

This is an interesting topic. Would. Could this happen anymore? Do people want to be in a movie theater watching people fuck like this?

[Ben]

Like because of Craig's Generation?

[Bill Simmons]

No, like generation.

[Craig Horabeck]

Don't put that on me.

[Ben]

We were doing. I can't remember what movie we were doing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bunch of prudes.

[Ben]

And this was the time, you know, after Craig said that he would shoot somebody in the heart. And that changed my opinion of him forever. But we were watching a movie and Craig said they were just titties in the movie for no reason.

[Van Lathan]

Sounds crazy.

[Ben]

And I was thinking to myself, how much fucking distance is it between me and Craig? Whenever titties show up, I am happy to meet them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I agree.

[Ben]

Craig was uncomfortable with it.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you.

[Craig Horabeck]

Well, and now 200 movies later, I'm like bummed when there's no nudity in the movie.

[Ben]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we've dated, Mark.

[Van Lathan]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Film score, got an Oscar nomination. Jerry Goldsmith, Jan De Bont working the cameras.

[Van Lathan]

Jan De Bont.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, Little Jan. Couple years for speed, Craig. 112 minutes plus 22 on the Horbex. Craig thinks every movie should be 90

[Craig Horabeck]

minutes, 22 over par. Yeah, but you can kind of skip right to the sex scenes now. It doesn't really matter how long it is, you know, Everything's clippified now, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That second half of the movie probably could be tightened, I would say also

[Van Lathan]

the last 25 minutes of this movie, you're like, what the fuck is happening?

[Ben]

It turns into a whodunit. By the way, the movie would have been longer if Shooter could last. Shooter has a premature ejaculation problem.

[Craig Horabeck]

Oh, shooter's in it.

[Bill Simmons]

Here comes nine minute van weighing in. Nine minute van at minimum.

[Ben]

Do we know minimum language.

[Bill Simmons]

Do we know he had a premature. Or was it just edited that way? Thank God we have Mallory here to answer the question.

[Ben]

I'd have been like, hey, yo, on, God. Like, for real, for real, for real. Like, give me at least two extra minutes so people know how I move out here in this motherfucker, you know what I'm saying? I can't have people thinking that the credit's gonna roll. I'm gonna be popping before. You know what I'm saying?

[Mallory Rubin]

The Beth scene, unfortunate in many respects, including this one, very quick. But the Catherine scenes, I don't know. I think, like, we see her orgasm so many different times, including from the single most memorable part of the movie, which is him going down on her, maintaining eye contact the entire time and going cross eyed. Like he's trying to, like, identify a unicorn in a magic eye painting.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just like,

[Mallory Rubin]

when we do these,

[Van Lathan]

I never, ever, ever want to have sex sex again. Like, every time you do like a Muppet version of someone going down at

[Bill Simmons]

somebody, it just kills me.

[Mallory Rubin]

But then he's on top. The back scratch, then she's on top, right?

[Ben]

So we're.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're going through some pretty protracted sequences.

[Ben]

He looked down on her like, girl, you think I wasn't going to do this? Did you?

[Mallory Rubin]

I know he was really impressed with himself.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And then he watched his own blowjob in the mirror. Where are you guys on bedroom ceiling mirrors?

[Van Lathan]

What part of the podcast is this?

[Craig Horabeck]

What do you think?

[Ben]

I always, like, see myself and like, yo, nigga, you need to work out. Like, we had gone to the islands and my titties lay to the side.

[Bill Simmons]

It was one of. During the MTV Cribs era, it was one of those. When somebody had the bedroom area, you really knew some freak shit was going down. It was always a red flag.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wanted you to think that, yeah, it

[Bill Simmons]

was one or the other. It was definitely a statement. Speaking of statements, Roger Ebert.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Two stars.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a mess.

[Ben]

Y' all can't boo Raj, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, he did.

[Bill Simmons]

He said the film is like a crossword puzzle. It keeps your interest until you solve it. And then it's just a worthless scrap with the spaces filled in.

[Ben]

God damn.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't want to give him a fuck you, Raj, but I'm gonna give him, like, a borderline fuck you, Raj. Just a whiff. I don't like that two and a half. Give it two and a half. Come on.

[Van Lathan]

I'm surprised he didn't give it a two and a half. Like, two is, like. This is a very well made movie, even if you think it's absolute. I think he was just really upset

[Craig Horabeck]

by the ending mainly. I think he kind of liked it, but he was upset about the ice

[Bill Simmons]

pick at the end. He just knocked the star off at the end.

[Ben]

The reason why the review surprises me is because the movie takes itself very seriously, and it's well made, well acted, and well crafted. There's some really insanely well crafted scenes here. It's not throwing anything away. So you would think that he would respect the craftsmanship a little bit more than, like, what he did.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a pretty, like, critically derided film.

[Ben]

It is.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, a lot of the reviews are bad. It's adored by the public. Right. But it's not like everybody. It's not like Raj was on an island.

[Van Lathan]

No, it's tough. Like, there's, like, Sharon Stone talks about, like, thinking, like, I've made, like, I've done it. I made Double Indemnity. People are going to love this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, wait till she hears this podcast. Then she's going to know that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. If I had to pick the greatest movie of my lifetime, I was born 1969. Man, I'm old. I think the greatest movie is the Godfather. For all the great actors that were in it that they caught at various stages of their career. Brando, Al Pacino, James Caan, Robert Duvall, Iid Coppola, who had. Was not really on the map yet. He had this famous, famous book, and they somehow pull all of it off. And the big thing is that movie just infiltrates pop culture from the day it comes out in 1972 all the way through to now in all these different ways. And that is why I think it's the greatest movie of my lifetime. Finding someone or something that's perfect for you. Like the Godfather isn't always easy. If you're hiring, I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. You have to go through hundreds of resumes just to find one person, which is exhausting. Unless you use ZipCruiter. Because you could try it for free at zipcruiter.com rewatchables Using its smart matching technology, ZipCruiter does most of the work finding qualified candidates for your role. And it now has a new feature. That's right. New feature that pushes candidates who are interested in your job to the top of your list. So you're talking with people who have the skills and passion that you're looking for. First, cut through the standard and get to the standouts with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter to get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com rewatchables that is ziprecruiter.com reWatchables Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you thought HBO's Euphoria was intense in high school, saddle up. Season three of Euphoria picks up five years later and life looks very different.

[Bill Simmons]

Hello, Ru.

[Mallory Rubin]

You owe me money. No matter what they're chasing, money, love or redemption, no one can escape their fate.

[Bill Simmons]

The problem is, if you make a

[Mallory Rubin]

deal with the devil, there's no turning back. Don't miss the third season of Euphoria starring two time Emmy winners. And data now streaming on HBO and HBO Max with new episodes every segment.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so for the rewatchables, if you haven't heard any of the pods we've done, we do categories to break down the movie. First category is most rewatchable scene. We'll give. We'll give you some runner up nominees. Incredible opening murder scene right into the police showing up and dialogue that goes, there's cum stains all over the sheets. So let's talk about it now.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would love to.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Johnny Boz, just that night, no maid.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, there is a maid. This is part of what I have.

[Van Lathan]

She's a rather rotund maid. They even pointed out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, she's 54 and 240. And so they say she couldn't be the murderer. Which is pretty fucked up, honestly. Not the only fucked up thing in

[Bill Simmons]

the movie but because they blue light this and it's. It looks like a Sunday.

[Mallory Rubin]

It look, it looks. Is everyone tracking Artemis right now? The NASA photos, Boz's sheets under the black light look like the face of the moon that NASA is currently showing us. Splattered craters everywhere.

[Van Lathan]

So he either is Mount Vesuvius, right, One night only, or he's never washed his sheets. His bedroom is a no go zone for the ME and those sheets have not changed in weeks.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, I guess that.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have a theory? I bet you do on that. And the sheets. Was the note made or just.

[Van Lathan]

Is it one night?

[Ben]

There's a gentleman by the name of Peter north who throughout the course of his career was able to set records. And if you guys don't know who he is, you'll be amazed. And so when I think of this movie, I think about talent, not necessarily about, like, function. So it wasn't the fact that he was doing it a lot. It was like when he was doing it, talking about a fucking fire hose.

[Bill Simmons]

So my question is, if you're getting stabbed to death with an ice pick as you're coming.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that like a triple cum shot? Sorry to be crude, but that's if the maid's not coming. That has to be the only other explanation.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just don't think the human body contains that much ejaculate at one period of time. Whether or not you're.

[Craig Horabeck]

Wait, though.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have Sharon Stone thrusting on top of you and you're about to be stabbed 31 times with an ice pick.

[Craig Horabeck]

Not to get too graphic here, but like, is it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it's fine. Go ahead.

[Craig Horabeck]

Is it Johnny Boz inside Catherine Trammell? Why is there semen everywhere?

[Van Lathan]

I think the idea also is they have done it multiple times that night.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben]

That.

[Van Lathan]

This is like. It's Johnny Boz's fuck of the century.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. Cocaine on the penis. So. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyone second guessing their decision to come tonight or.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm having a great time.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you guys knew what you were coming for. The woman in the opening scene, by the way, was Sharon Stone. It didn't seem like that because they have her hair covered, but it is her.

[Craig Horabeck]

And Verhoeven almost seems like she's in a wig. They put in a blonde wig, I think to make you think it could

[Ben]

be triple somebody else.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's some pretty clear indicators.

[Bill Simmons]

But cr Would you want to go this way if, like, you could pick 10 different ways to die with the Johnny Boz being the top three?

[Van Lathan]

I would be so thrilled to find out what the other ones would be. That would tell us.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is like the Tyrion Lannister you Know how he's always saying he wants to go with a belly full of wine and some lips around his cocktail? It's the Johnny Boss.

[Bill Simmons]

Another quote from this scene. He got off before. He got off.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's where you know you're in the right hands. Next scene, the first visit to Sharon Stone's house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Catherine Tramell. We get a great, great Bay Area drive. Amazing house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gorgeous.

[Ben]

Fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna give this the Den of Thieves Benihana Award. Scene stealing location. Cr. Unless you wanna jump me.

[Van Lathan]

This is the nightclub.

[Bill Simmons]

Really nice. Good deck.

[Mallory Rubin]

And great deck.

[Van Lathan]

And great deck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great deck.

[Ben]

Great deck.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Insane deck.

[Van Lathan]

Great landscaping.

[Ben]

Girthy deck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Impressive landscaping.

[Bill Simmons]

Catherine Tramell comes in, throwing 120 miles an hour. Right away. I wasn't dating him. I was fucking him, man. What are you, a pro? I'm an amateur. I wasn't in the mood last night. Are you sorry he's dead? Yeah, I like fucking him. Incredible. She's just throwing him off left and right. Doesn't seem that upset Mal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, she's. That's part of the appeal of Catherine as a character is she is so utterly in command and assured. And there's something disarming and terrifying about it. But also something so appealing. So, like, the whole movie, the thriller, the erotic thriller aspect is a cat and mouse chase where, like, the mouse wants to be caught so that he can fuck Katherine. Right. And you have to understand that, like, immediately. Which you do.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we have another rewatchable scene. The second house visit to the car ride which includes her changing. That's how we know she's not wearing underwear. They're in the car. I don't smoke. Yes, you do. I quit. Congratulations. All of a sudden, she has cigarettes. What's your new book about? A detective. He falls for the wrong women. What happens? He kills her.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Douglas is like, I'm fucking in.

[Ben]

This is.

[Bill Simmons]

I am all the way in. Good shot. Of what part of San Francisco are we in there?

[Craig Horabeck]

Well, they were driving up to Stinson, but the house in real life was in Carmel. But they're driving up to Stinson beach, which shouts out.

[Van Lathan]

Scott and Natalia got married in Stinson Beach. They're here somewhere.

[Bill Simmons]

There they are. Next scene is the police room scene. One of, I think, the most famous scenes of the 90s. And we also have Newman from Seinfeld and Eddie Harris from Major League in there.

[Van Lathan]

We sure do. The factoid, which I don't know if it's true, that Spielberg hired him off of this is unreal that Steven Spielberg's takeaway from this scene for Jurassic Park. I got that guy, right?

[Bill Simmons]

What are you going to do? Arrest me? Was arrest me for smoking. Good luck. Johnny liked to use his hands too much. I like hands and fingers. Another quote. Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's nice, iconic.

[Van Lathan]

It's not how she says it. It'd be funny if she did. But she was like, it's nice.

[Craig Horabeck]

Turns into Borat for a second.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's excellent Borat.

[Van Lathan]

Basically, it's my wife, my wife, he's dead.

[Bill Simmons]

And then we get the leg cross, which became

[Van Lathan]

highly controversial.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe the most famous moment of the 90s in a movie. I'm trying to think what's bigger.

[Van Lathan]

Migs from Silence of Lance is that

[Bill Simmons]

late 80s biggest holy shit moment.

[Ben]

So I was like, I remember my dad. Rest in peace, dad. Dad was like, Boy, go back a couple of seconds.

[Bill Simmons]

Now.

[Ben]

I honestly think. And when I watched it, I caught it. I've never looked. This is one of the. This is one of the most well written scenes of the 90s. So when you think about the movie, right? The movie is about basic. The movie. You guys think I'm about to be freaky. I'm about to be like, okay, let me cook for a second. The movie, Basic Instinct, it's about primal urges, Right? Things that you cannot control.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

But the movie only works if you understand how dangerous Katherine is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Ben]

And how much he can't resist her. So that scene is in conflict because that scene has to establish how dangerous she is. But it also can't betray the fact that we see how dangerous she is. All of these police officers see how dangerous she is. And he still has to be primarily drawn to her. So she has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room,

[Bill Simmons]

by the way, so does the audience.

[Ben]

Exactly, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ben]

For us as well. She has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room. But if she is smarter than everybody in the room, it breaks the deal with the audience. Because then you go, well, we know that she's the murderer. We know that she's gaming them. Why would he still want her? Then she lets that thang out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And let me tell you something right now, to all the ladies in the audience, if you want to end the argument or the speculation, let that thang out. If you let that thing out, you win. All right? Stop playing the game. I want to play mlb. Let that thing out. Be off the game. Okay? And so when that happens, that re injects this primal Urge into the scene, and it completely wipes his mind and our mind and everybody else. He gotta go get that thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Newman violated some HR laws. I think Newman's like, well,

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna hit this in unanswerable questions, but he's not in the movie after that. It's like, did seeing cat vagina kill him?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did the SCDA drop fucking dead in the bathroom stall? Cranking one out? Ten minutes after that, everyone else is looking at the lie detector and is like, you can beat the machine. No, you can't beat the machine. And Newman is dropping dead after having seen Catherine flash.

[Van Lathan]

He's not in the director's cut.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just. He makes an early impression and that's it. I think Dan's point is really important because, like, there are five dudes in that interrogation for no reason other than that every. They're all wrapped, right? And so the fact that the trick of that, in addition to the very obvious one, is that she is in command and they're in her power, even though she is so clearly should be the one who's like, what is happening here? Even the way that scene is lit, the way it's staged, like, that doesn't look like an interrogation room at all. Right. It looks like she's on display at a gallery.

[Bill Simmons]

So there was controversy about that scene that we should mention. She said it was filmed without her knowledge, and it turned into a he said, she said. I forget what year.

[Van Lathan]

In her memoir, Sharon Stone says that they asked her to take her underwear off because it was affecting the lighting.

[Craig Horabeck]

Which.

[Van Lathan]

I mean.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then she saw a cut, and her and her lawyer, Marty Singer, were gonna basically stop the movie from coming out. They were gonna. And then she just. But then she was like, you know what? I signed up for it. That is me. And she decided to do it, but not without reservations.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it wasn't in the script either. And Verhoeven, pervy Dutch guy, remembered something similar happening when he was in college and decided to weave it in. Anyway, cool college story.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yikes.

[Bill Simmons]

Record scratch. Quick, quick one.

[Van Lathan]

I was in college and she took that thing out.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I stopped playing mlb.

[Van Lathan]

I stopped playing FIFA. And that is the end of the argument.

[Ben]

Hang out. Try it. Ladies.

[Bill Simmons]

Band's down with the Dutch. The car chase is really good. Just wanted to mention that.

[Ben]

Really good.

[Bill Simmons]

She kind of does something in the car chase.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on, shooter.

[Ben]

Nick. A Porsche or something like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

A Lotus.

[Ben]

A Lotus.

[Bill Simmons]

Nick stops by Katherine's place and she uses the ice pick and does the. How much coke should do. Nick, you're gonna make a terrific character. She's making out with Roxy in front of him. That scene's good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And all the papers are there, right? So he starts to realize in that sequence, like, how much she knows about him, how she's studying him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. And then she stops by Nick's place. She does the ice pick thing for him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Shooter.

[Bill Simmons]

Now he's smoking cigs. You know, the wheels are coming off. He's drinking. He's ordering doubles at the bar. He's smoking. And now we're going to my favorite scene. Nick goes to the nightclub. We get the song we played earlier, Blue by. What was that band? Latow.

[Van Lathan]

Latour.

[Ben]

Latour.

[Bill Simmons]

Latour, yeah, Latour. Nick's the oldest guy in the club by, I'm going to say 16 years. And he's wearing a V neck shirt that his aunt gave him for Christmas. And 90 days, 85. He's like, I'll wear this. I haven't worn this yet. And goes into the bathroom, which is. Has anyone ever been in a bathroom like this? There's 50 people in the bathroom. They're all doing cocaine. They're playing like cards. I don't know. What bathroom is this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Most of the characters on Industry, we were talking about this last night.

[Van Lathan]

This is like a regular third episode of a season of Industry.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I know. Ban is fucking quiet right now. I'll just tell you, Savannah, what happened.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Roxy is throwing, I think, 130 miles an hour. In this scene, the catcher's mitt actually breaks. She breaks the mitt and Douglas is again. I'll put this against Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber. I'll put this against Mike Myers and so I Married an Axe Murderer. Name a funny movie. Nothing's funnier than Douglas in this scene, trying to be sexy. I'm not too old to be here. Dance guy. This is really special.

[Van Lathan]

The only thing that could have been funnier is if he danced. But he makes the choice to be like, what would this guy do at this club seeing all this shit? This is like every primal instinct coming out, and he's just like. I would just stand there watching.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're watching. You're like, this has to be the unintentionally funniest thing that's gonna happen with Michael Douglas in this. Think again. Because we go to the sex scene where he also gets up after and wins the William Peterson. Honestly, dude, I'm not sure we needed to see your balls award. Does it twice does the walk, talks to Roxy, does the. Let me ask you something, Roxy, man to man. Then does the pivot and does another walk. He's like, did you see my balls throwing butt crack? Yeah, I did. Here they are again.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, he's just feeling it. And the side dick before that.

[Bill Simmons]

So this is what happens when you've made 10 straight years of hundred billion dollar movies. You just start walking around completely naked in the bathroom. This is just the tour de force. Anything to add, Mal, before we move on?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think this is a very important scene. We've talked about the side dick, the oral sex face, watching the blowjob in the mirror. I think the fact that in terms of just actually the clues, not that you're really thinking about the clues, but it is like beat for beat, parallel to what we saw in the Baz scene. So you're very titillated by what you're seeing, but you're like, is he gonna get stabbed by an ice pick? Right. And like, even if it's bedding. Yeah. The headboard has like the slats so that she can tie him up. Breaks out the Hermes, or Hermes as it is called in this film. Astonishing stuff. Scarf out and ties him up. It's just start to finish. Pretty incredible, the tearing of the back flesh. I think that these are some of the most guttural orgasm sounds ever committed to the public record on film. And you know, when I was younger watching this for the first time, I was like, it reminds me of how I think people today read like fourth wing or a court of thorns and roses. And they're like, I'm taking notes. Okay, this is how you could do something to like lead to a 27 page chapter about going down on your girlfriend on a throne. Got it. Okay. Like people were watching this, studying it, trying to learn. Not you.

[Van Lathan]

The girlfriend is also like a dragon fairy, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Well, there are fairies in court of thorns and roses. And I can tell you've read them Dragon Riders and fourth Wing. And you watch this now as like a middle aged person and like the angling of the back, I'm like, is she about to like turn into Nagini? Like, I just worry about everybody's picture pain. I see them looking into the mirror up top. I'm like, if I had that now, I would just say like, are my hips properly aligned so that I'm not going to wake up with lower back pain? It's a very different relationship as you age.

[Van Lathan]

It's an. It's an amazing athletic performance.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is, yeah. It is. It is.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what his dick looks like the next day, but it's not going straight. There's definitely a couple turns. For sure. I have two more scenes. Nick goes to see Katherine the next day, and she kind of deflates the balloon a little bit. Roxy didn't know what she was in for. Oh, she's seen me fuck other guys.

[Van Lathan]

Just like, incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Sticking it to him. Nick came in, thought it was the fuck of the century. I thought it was a good beginning.

[Ben]

Say Nick came in that bitch, like he was the man.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

I thought it was the fucking situation.

[Van Lathan]

Is he still wearing the sweater or did he change? I can't remember if he wears the sweater the next day.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's the bomber. He has the bomber over it.

[Ben]

All of a sudden, he's become Danny Zuko. Like, he went from being, like, a regular cop to now he's the coolest motherfucker in the world. She's like, yo, dawg, pump the brakes. I used to fuck a boxer. Like, you know what I mean? He's like, get the fuck out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

And then just the ending with the twist where you think she's gonna kill him. I think those are all the rewatchable scenes. What do you got? Cr. What's your most rewatchable nightclub?

[Van Lathan]

100 out of 100. I mean, the sex scene's cool, but, like, the nightclub has so much going on. I love that the drug dealer gets to dance with them. That he's like, yeah, you know, like, here's some coke. Can I join?

[Ben]

Hey, that black guy is in every 90s movie for some reason. They got a nigga with a flat top and a vest, no shirt, who knows all the choreography to everything. That guy comes back. Glenn Plummer plays that guy in Showgirls. He comes back, he's dancing with a random white girl. He's. I'm telling you, that guy, I never saw him in Baton Rouge.

[Bill Simmons]

So we all have the nightclub scene, or what do you have, Mel?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it's fuck of the century. I've, across the course of my life, diagrammed that. Like, I'm sorry. Scoring a baseball game. Yeah, like, that's. It's gotta be that.

[Ben]

So we're not gonna.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nobody's picking the interrogation scene. Wow.

[Ben]

The interrogation. Mine's interrogation scene. But, like, also. But, like, the triple horn scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Ben]

Which is obviously a very. I mean, come on, man. It's a controversial scene.

[Bill Simmons]

It's problematic.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a. It's a very problematic scene. But, like, he runs. That's the first time we really see them together.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And it's like very. It shows that legitimately. The moment that he meets Catherine, his character changes immediately. Becomes like, once again more primal, like, more driven by whatever this thing is in his body that he can't control.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1992 thing about this movie? What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

Cried Bart Simpson on a keychain.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. Mistaken for a gun at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

You have one bear.

[Ben]

Yeah. So in this movie, only the attractive people have sex. So there a bunch of people in the movie, but only the people that look good having sex. If they made this movie right now, there'd be a random scene of Hoss hitting something from the back. But in this movie, the desire of people, desirable people, they have sex. And everybody, everybody is a bunch of fucking pastrami eating cops that get to go, oh, you fucked that last night shooter. We like. But in this now we have democratized sex scenes. So Hoss would have got to get down with Hoss and Roxy would have had their little situation if it was happening today.

[Van Lathan]

This is an amazing point because to the guys on the force, Nick is Austin Butler. Like, they're so fucking gross. They're like, they're even happy when they're like, nick is breaking every law. But God damn, man.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple 1992 things. Quitting cocaine for three months.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Those green police computer screens really bring me back to the 90s when you're just trying to read your. Honestly, you'd go blind if you looked at those things for too long.

[Van Lathan]

But some of the prompts they're writing yet are kind of chatgpt where they're like, what about 1967? It's like, oh, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Calling a condom a rubber.

[Ben]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Felt very 90s to me, I don't think. Did we say rubber in the same way anymore?

[Ben]

Okay, let me ask a question for you.

[Bill Simmons]

I was 12, and then Sharon Stone hosted the April 1992 Saturday Night Live to promote this movie with musical guest Pearl Jam, their first SNL performance.

[Mallory Rubin]

Look at that.

[Bill Simmons]

And they look like they're like 22 years old. So there you go. What's age the best? All the San Francisco location stuff. By the way, I was warned by multiple people not to say San Fran. Apparently it's an annoying habit the San Francisco people don't like. So do you have a nickname for San Francisco or. No. Frisco. Sf. What do you say?

[Craig Horabeck]

Craig sf Probably.

[Bill Simmons]

So when Someone says, san Fran. You're just like this person.

[Ben]

I said it. And by the way, you guys, I like, like, like, I said it and I. Logan's right there. I was trying to like, shout out everybody, give it up for Logan Murdoch. But like, I said it when I was trying to compliment y'.

[Mallory Rubin]

All.

[Ben]

City, nobody. I didn't get the email. So Frisco, the city, all of that shit. Shout out to y'. All.

[Bill Simmons]

I like sf. We mentioned this earlier for what stage is best one of the great cigarette smoking movies ever made? Sierra.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who would you give if we could only hand out one? Sean Penn. I brought my own pack award for excellence in on screen smoking. Would you go Stone or Douglas?

[Van Lathan]

Douglas. Because you can see that the cigarette is the highway to hell for him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

I feel like it's the cigarette that unlocks everything.

[Bill Simmons]

I have more with Sage. The best, but. What do you got, Mal?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I just. I'm shocked you didn't say the first shot of Catherine on the deck that we spent so much time talking about, it draws your attention to the jagged rocks, the danger of the person and the setting. All of it. Let's see. The score you already mentioned is quite good. The dong, the nudity, the explicit sex. Sharon Stone. We've talked about all of it. I think the way props are used, like objects you mentioned, the key ring, obviously, the ice picks, the hand ties, the ceiling mirrors, the matching Picassos. There are these little aspects of every setting that really become central drivers of the plot in a nice way.

[Ben]

I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Men fucking with women who will eventually destroy them. So this movie should be required viewing for anyone who's thinking about dating a Kardashian. Timmy.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Ben]

I know it seems good now, brother.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

But I was there for nine years. It's not going to work out.

[Bill Simmons]

I had Johnny Boz's apartment, which has a Picasso.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. And Catherine has a Picasso.

[Bill Simmons]

No maid service. Yeah, I really like Michael Douglas. I have down his hesitation. I can't believe this broad laugh that he does where he's just like drinking

[Van Lathan]

a paper cup of water.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. It's like his little weird flirty thing. Something Nick Catherine exchanges fuck like minx, raise rugrats, live happily ever after. Like there's just like good screenwriting stuff in this. And then Mal, I can't believe you didn't mention this. Well, she got that magna cum laude pussy on her that fried up her brain. Yeah, just some of the George Zunza he plays. Gus.

[Van Lathan]

Incredible Gus.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you know, he's dead. The moment you see him, you're like, yeah, this guy's overweight. He's a buddy. He's gonna drink too much. He'll make it. You do the pool. He's gonna be 18 minutes left. He'll be dead. You know what's happening. Pre tech, San Francisco.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would also put in there. San Francisco. I used to come here a lot in the 90s. Cause some of my best high school college friends lived here. And San Francisco was fucking awesome in the 90s. And it was a great place for young people. It was really cool. And obviously has gone through a lot of transformations over the years, but just seeing it don't make a face.

[Ben]

Van I'm saying, buying into the propaganda. The fucking shit is beautiful. I seen that fucking building.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gorgeous city.

[Ben]

What's that? What's that pointy building? What's it called? The pointy one from Star Trek. Do y' all know the name of the pointy one? I seen that bitch. Transameric. Whatever the fuck I like. I saw that. I was like, yo, man, this shit is crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Are we done? With what stage? The best. Can we move on?

[Van Lathan]

I had one thing which was it takes, like, for me, it took a bunch of viewings to notice. This is. There is a brief moment when Douglas goes to Beth's house. He's like, come in. And she's like, oh, my lock is broken.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

And it's like, basically the only detail you get that Catherine has set Beth up this entire time and is like, placing articles in her house.

[Mallory Rubin]

And she gotta put that revolver behind the bookcase.

[Van Lathan]

Change your locks, maybe. But, like, it's a great. Otherwise the whole movie almost falls apart at the end, which it kind of does anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have another great shot, Gordo, for best shot?

[Van Lathan]

There's a bunch of really cool shit in here. Yonder bont's really good. But the push in on Catherine saying, I'd have to be pretty stupid to write a book about killing and then kill him the same way I described in my book. And she's saying it to the audience, where it's almost breaking the fourth wall.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. We don't get to give this out a lot. The Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate. Catherine's house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

So the exterior is in Stinson Beach. And then the interior stuff was in Carmel by the sea, which is not that close to her. About 35 mil right now for this one. Great bay window, great deck, easy access to a completely scary beach.

[Van Lathan]

Just do it.

[Bill Simmons]

You Just felt you can die as you're going on a walk. Cr. You have a flex category? What do you got?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I mean, you guys tell me. I feel like the Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award. Did this movie need a random sports scene? There's a little bit of Niners, like, at the end, like at the diner and stuff. But could we not get George Seifert in this movie somehow?

[Craig Horabeck]

Cause you were still cooking back then.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you mean? Like, Nick goes to, like, a Niners practice and has, like, young. Young Montana.

[Van Lathan]

Gus has lost a ton of money on the Niners or something.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Oh, I got one. Karen used to. Somebody on the Niners, maybe Karen.

[Bill Simmons]

Katherine.

[Ben]

I'm drunk. Catherine used to. White woman Karen. Whatever. So she used to fuck somebody on a Niner. So they go to interview him, and it's Jerry Rice.

[Van Lathan]

And the name of her new novel is Rice Rice.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, Mallory, you don't get a flex because you have your own award. The Mallory Rubin Award for. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

[Ben]

Oh, shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Well, like, a third of the runtime is sex scenes, basically. Right? We have the opening boz scene. We have Nick. I'll incorporate some. Just nudity. That's very central as well. Nick watching Catherine change in the mirror for the first time. The Nick Beth rape scene. We could make that better by not having it or not doing it that way. I'd say Nick watching Catherine change again through the large, beautiful picture windows that you were just commenting on with the real estate. Right. And reasonable to assume that she knows he's there. So put a pin in that. I'll be coming back to that in a second. We've got the fuck of the century, the fireplace chase scene. So we enter a different point in the movie now where we're, like, not seeing the sex.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

They've worn us out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Make love to me. And then we cut and they're cuddling in front of the fire. It's like, this is not the movie that I signed up to watch. Why am I not seeing every second of that? And it ends up being very relevant because that's when she's planting the Lisa nuggets about Beth in this vulnerable moment. Then we get Catherine at Nick's apartment. Some nudity. And then again, we don't see the sex scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Insane.

[Mallory Rubin]

Then we cut to them cuddling in the window.

[Van Lathan]

Didn't have enough sex.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that there are a couple opportunities in the established sequence of the film to just show us all of the sex again, which I would have supported. And then, of course, the final sex scene, which once again mirrors the boz beats. Spine bending maneuvers and then the forward thrust. And then like, okay, she didn't kill him. So here are my suggestions. Give us the full sex scenes in the ones we cut away from the Make Love to me fireplace chase and the window nook. But I think for like, the fourth or fifth rewatchables in a row. So this is something I'm going to reflect on later. I would like to suggest that the movie include a masturbation scene because it actually doesn't make sense that that's missing. And I think when Nick follows has calluses. Well, Nick. Yeah. I'm like, how does Nick's dick have skin on it if his hand has that many calluses on it? Like, use some lotion, my guy. Come on. But I'm talking about Catherine. Naturally, he follows her home. Someone said yes.

[Ben]

Somebody said yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

He follows her home and she just immediately gets undressed. Drapes are open, giant window. She definitely knows he's there because he is the worst in the history of tv.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he really is. He's terrible.

[Mallory Rubin]

At no point in the movie does he follow somebody and they don't know that he's behind them. So she knows he's there. And purposefully, she gets undressed in front of the window, leaves the lights on, and then as she walks away, turn the lights off, which I think is confirmation that she knows he's watching. There's a couch right there. Go for it. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So he throws some solo action. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Craig Horabeck]

And then we mix in a Newman's scene as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Newman.

[Craig Horabeck]

Let's see it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Craig Horabeck]

Let's see it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Real toss up. Let's either see Newman jack off or Catherine master beat. I'm going splendid on her couch.

[Van Lathan]

Honestly. Yeah, I've never seen anything like that before.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. Holy mackerel. We don't get to give this award out. Craig, you were here when this award was created. The Steven Seagal Heart Team Kill Award for. Did this movie need a better intimacy coordinator?

[Van Lathan]

Clearly, Paul Verhoeven is the intimacy coordinator.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to say yes on this.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah. I'm going to say yeah. I'll give this a yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay. Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

[Van Lathan]

I got this one and it really jumped out at me. What the fuck is Hazel Dobkins doing in this movie?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, this is mine, too.

[Van Lathan]

You subscribe to the online theory that she is the mastermind of this entire film.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

And that's why Catherine seems so deferential towards her. And she's often at the house when Nick arrives is like, Hazel's, like, in the background.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, yeah, what message boards are you on?

[Van Lathan]

R slash Basic Instinct. And no, but it's like, it's either one or the other. She's either like, they kind of wrote her into the movie and kept her, like, appearing throughout it, or she is the joker.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think of that, Van? What do you mean, Hazel Dobbins being the Joker?

[Ben]

I don't know. Like, you know, I'm thinking about a lot of stuff in this movie, and I'm processing as we're talking. Like, when we were talking about the sex scenes and Hazel, I looked at the sex scenes. I really thought that this was the way white people had sex back in the day. Cause, like, I look at her now, and all of her writing skills, they're completely obsolete now. We have new technologies. She wasn't making no circles. She was just going crazy. And then, like, when you see Showgirls, it's the same thing when you watch Elizabeth Berkland, Showgirl, she's in the pool and she's actually like. She's on a bucking bronco. And I got a fucking spasm and shit like that. But, like, anyway,

[Mallory Rubin]

I had Hazel questions as well, because I think it's one of the more puzzling aspects of the plot I hadn't considered. I didn't know this was a theory. I hadn't considered the Joker thing. But I think another bit of evidence to support this theory is that Hazel canonically killed her husband and three children. Right. She is a mass murderer, a child slayer. And it is established on the aforementioned computer that she was in jail for nine years for that.

[Van Lathan]

Roxy killed.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a joker to me.

[Van Lathan]

And is out after six.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's also insane. She slit their throats with a razor. And she's like, I've been in a couple years. I'm good.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't pick it, nits. I. It seemed like I would say a short prison sentence for wiping out your family.

[Ben]

Hold on. This is the two Americans thing that tracks. Kill her whole family. She gets out nine years. I know. In jail, 55 years for weed. That's real guilty.

[Mallory Rubin]

Isn't the weak link of the movie, the DNA evidence thing, though, like, it's actually like the. Like, I agree that we just want to watch the movie and have fun, but it is actually disqualifying, borderline disqualifying. Like, DNA evidence had been in practice since the 80s. This movie is set in 92. There's just absolutely no those guys.

[Van Lathan]

Here's the thing. Those guys.

[Mallory Rubin]

Every single murder involves every bodily fluid that you could possibly excrete. How are they not finding the killer?

[Bill Simmons]

Can I. Can I counter this, please? Because I had this. In what stage? The worst, not weakest link.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Just because 10 years later, the DNA. She's done in five minutes. But if you remember the OJ trial in 95 people still, we barely knew what DNA evidence was. And people, like, didn't even really believe it.

[Ben]

Well, because he didn't do it anyway. But. No, but the DNA is kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're going. The sun.

[Ben]

Like the deep DNA is kind of rendered defunct by the fact that she admits that she has sex with the guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So she says that she has sex with him. And she says over and over again that they had sex. So her being connected to him is not necessarily.

[Bill Simmons]

But the fingerprints of the ice pick. Like, there's stuff that they would.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's not covered in, like, blood. Her clothing doesn't have a trace of the blood.

[Van Lathan]

Often showered when he comes over.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think that's how it works. I'm just saying if you commit a murder one day as a friend and person who loves you, don't just. Just shower and think you're gonna get away with it. You need to clean up more fully.

[Ben]

That's so funny. Getting a call from CR. Like 2:30.

[Mallory Rubin]

Van, I took a shower. I'm fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Come downtown.

[Ben]

I did something I wasn't supposed to do, man.

[Van Lathan]

Bring a bar of Irish Spring. That should get me out of this.

[Ben]

I would help you.

[Van Lathan]

This is so. What's age the worst for me. I. I don't know if that.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait. I'm not. I gotta do my weakling.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you gotta do your.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, Van. I think you'd be one of my three calls. I don't know where you rank.

[Ben]

Hey, bro, whose car are we taking? You call me. I'm with it.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had a less auspicious weak link. So Nick, Michael Douglas character attacks Nielsen. The Internal affairs guys that he gave up the files, right? It's in front of like 30 cops. Has to be restrained. He's, like, ready to fight him. Six hours later, the guy's shot in the head. And they're like, hey, shooter, we're gonna need your gun. Bill, he's not in jail. He's locked up. Right.

[Van Lathan]

This is what I don't think you caught in that scene where he Goes into Nielsen's office. When he goes into Marty's office and he starts like jumping on him. Marty's boss pulls a gun.

[Mallory Rubin]

It crazy.

[Ben]

What the is happening.

[Van Lathan]

So it's. There are no rules in sfpd.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, crazy.

[Ben]

The SFPD is going nuts. They take the gun, put. Hey, do something to him. I'll blow your head off.

[Van Lathan]

That's Internal Affairs.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's insane.

[Van Lathan]

There's no laws.

[Bill Simmons]

Man, what a movie. All right, what's age? The worst. What you have Sierra.

[Van Lathan]

Well, so what's age? The worst is the fact that we know too much. We would be talking about DNA evidence. After David Simon, we know way too much about law enforcement storytelling. Back then they were like, yeah, three months ago, this narc killed two tourists while he was high on coke. Now fucks his therapist. Let's promote him to homicide detective and have him drive the suspect.

[Bill Simmons]

Who.

[Van Lathan]

The two of them are making me eyes at each other throughout this completely inappropriate interrogation.

[Mallory Rubin]

Get to know each other. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

My idea is Nick find out where Catherine leads.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then he abandons his responsibilities altogether. It's fucking amazing. Watching it at the time I was like, this is incredible. Watching it now, you're like, I think there would probably be some reviews.

[Bill Simmons]

We mentioned the first sex scene is, I gotta say, problematic now, but in 1992 wasn't not problematic. Like it was a big thing when it happened with him and Gene Tripplehorn. It's just a weird choice. I don't really get it. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices, guaranteed, mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower. With up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with EarthGrow mulch. Five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices. Now through April 1st, available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com Pricematch for details. This episode is brought to you by Two Good and Company Coffee Creamers. How do you take your coffee? Piping hot ice? Strong, Frothy? Well, if you love rich, creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try two Good and company Creamers. They're made with farm fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just 3 grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted, vanilla, and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. So this really bugs me. This could be a nitpick, but it's really what sage the wears. So they put together the Gene Tripplehorn also went to college with Sharon Stone's character. And they put the photo id, and she's got a blonde wig and the photo id, but it's the exact same photo as her now. And it was like, this movie cost $59 million, and they were just like, hey, what are we gonna do with the photo? And they just, like, phone photoshopped. I just don't understand it. It's such an unforced error.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one.

[Bill Simmons]

What else? Did you have any. What stage the worst fan?

[Ben]

No, I was all about the way Chan Stone was riding dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have any more?

[Mallory Rubin]

Mel, I think that the. We've alluded to this, but, like, the beyond. Just the general kind of shoddy work from the sfpd, the solving of the

[Bill Simmons]

murder,

[Mallory Rubin]

they're like, that jacket fit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So it was best.

[Van Lathan]

She's got a bunch of articles in

[Mallory Rubin]

her jacket, the jacket that says where she works on the back of it, which is definitely a choice you'd make as a murderer fit. So it's her. I mean, that's just absolutely ludicrous.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that in nitpicks, but the same thing. They go to Beth's kitchen drawer. They open up, there's all this scrapbook stuff, and the guy goes, well, I guess that's it.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Walker's like a social.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cody going in. Guilty. We're gonna talk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Always keep a full binder of chronologically ordered incriminating evidence in their kitchen drawer. Always crazy. Always the speed of the elevator in that sequence. Also ridiculous. And the fact that Nick has just had this very dramatic moment where he's, like, looking at the two covers. Oh, which will they go with? And he sees the paragraph about the detective's partner being found in the elevator. And then Gus shows up and is like, bud, I got a call from Katherine's freshman year roommate. Let's go. And Nick's like, sounds good. That all seems credible. Let's do it. And then he's like, I'm just gonna go inside a few floors up the elevator that you just read about. And Nick's like, cool, good luck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He just read the page on the

[Mallory Rubin]

printer, and then he's killed shortly thereafter in the exact scenario that was described in the pages he just read Nick. Terrible. No one's like, beth doesn't have blood on her hands at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

I had crazy the last 40 minutes as the what stage? The worst. They kind of yada, yada, some of this stuff. But I love this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

But if you stab someone with an ice pick that many times in the jugular in an elevator, you have some blood on your hands.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, some. And then I had the ripoff erotic thrillers that came after this that were all pretty bad. I think the worst one's probably Color of Night, especially. Cause Bruce Willis pool penis on a 70 foot screen. Wasn't really looking for that in 1995.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, each their own.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm really excited for this next category. The Ruffalo Hand and Ruby Neck Partridge Overacting Award obviously goes to Michael Douglas, who has. He does this thing where he says the line, but then yells the last two words. So it's like, who has access to my goddamn files? What is this, some kind of joke? This was his adult.

[Ben]

Fucking Ride me, man.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, get your fucking teeth in.

[Bill Simmons]

I just love it. All right, Vance, Flex. So you have to do. How would Van Lathan get out of this one? Which is an award we have sometimes.

[Van Lathan]

So as Beth or as Niche.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you could be any of the three characters here. How would Van get out of this one?

[Ben]

Pick a character and go, I'm getting out of what, though?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how would be. And Lathan get out of this. All right, you're Beth. How about you're Beth?

[Ben]

So I'm Beth. Well, I'm gonna be Nick.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? Okay, be Nick.

[Ben]

So I'm Nick. And, you know, they're asking me, like, why I'm hanging around Katherine. Well, the reality is this. You say I don't read enough. The woman's an author. Okay. You say I play the game too much. You say that I'm too obsessed with the dog. You say I'm on the computer too much. This woman's an author. She's written books. These books are very well regarded. And what I'm trying to do is deepen my understanding of literature. Now, here's the deal. If this was a male writer, you wouldn't have any problem with it.

[Van Lathan]

That's right.

[Ben]

But it's a female writer. So while you're looking at me, what I think you actually need to look at is the mirror. Because the reality is this is a woman. So you feel threatened. I don't feel threatened around women because I empower women. I believe in female writers. I believe in female creators. And this is a female creator. I believe in her, so I'm gonna keep hanging around her. You deal with your things. Talk to Dr. Crossman on Thursday.

[Bill Simmons]

Nails it every time. Gaslight the cr. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest. Take a word.

[Van Lathan]

So I was working on something I told you earlier. I was like, I have a hottest take, but I haven't landed the plane yet. I think the plane's still circling the airport. Is this movie a perverted man's version of Gilligan's island where the professor is caught in between the psychosexual dealings of Ginger and Marianne? Or the CR is pandaneering to the Audience Award for safest home Field Take. San Francisco is the best movie city.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

The suck up take. I like it. Now do you have one?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Catherine is a pretty generous murderer.

[Craig Horabeck]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, cocaine on the penis. Sure, you're alive to see the ice pick penetrate your nose, your neck, a couple other parts of your body, but you're shooting your load inside of her while it's happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a giving murderer. Yeah, that's fair.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thoughtful.

[Van Lathan]

She could just kill them.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got, Van?

[Ben]

You scratch my back during the fuck section, it's over. Okay? I like, I know that. Like, I've had these conversations. It's not. Hey, bro, I was in that shit like crazy, dog. She was scratching my back up. I'm like, that's it. It's over. It's done. I don't even like spicy food. I don't like pain. You scratch like you. Like. You bite my neck too hard. Hey, yo, on God, though, I feel you. Chill, all right? She scratches his shit like Wolverine is seeing Magneto.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Ben]

And this motherfucker's like, ah, God. Whatever. Hey, what the fuck is wrong with you? It's true what they say about you. Nah, don't scratch my shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Mine. I don't know how to prove this. I think this is the single worst cop performance ever by a cop in a movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

So we get to meet Nick. He's off cocaine for three months.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Three months. It's celebration. Let's have a party. He's killed four tourists in the last five years.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

But each time it was undercover for drugs, so it's fine. Somehow got promoted. As CR mentioned, he's asked to trail this suspect immediately falls in love with her and goes down this psychosexual path. Loses his mind, loses his badge, and then ends up shooting his girlfriend.

[Ben]

Murders his therapist after he let her

[Bill Simmons]

go up to reenact the page of a book that he just read.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crazy. Let Gus get killed, shoots his girlfriend,

[Bill Simmons]

and then somehow gets away with it and he's back on the streets. I mean, this is like the real Dirty Harry. This is it. This is Dirty Harry. He's like Lousy Harry.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible cop casting. What ifs? We mentioned Kim Basinger. Meg Ryan turned it down. Geena Davis turned it down. Ellen Barkin. I'm amazed she turned it down. Meryl Hemingway turned it down. And then it was Demi Moore versus Sharon Stone. And Sharon Stone won.

[Van Lathan]

By far the funniest casting. What if is that Emma Thompson auditioned for Katherine?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I didn't know what to make of that.

[Van Lathan]

Did you believe that I said I auditioned for Katherine?

[Bill Simmons]

Allegedly. In one of the original scripts. Nick Curran was originally a lesbian cop, written with Kathleen Turner in mind. And then they switched it. Paul Verhoeven was supposed to direct Black Rain, which will be in the rewatchables at some point in 2026, but dropped out to do Total Recall. And then I thought, this was amazing. Verhoeven wanted Tom Barringer for RoboCop and Basic Instinct. And Barringer's like, no, thanks. You're a weird, pervy Dutch guy, and I don't want to do a movie with you.

[Van Lathan]

I'll be doing Sniper instead.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Milos Foreman was the first choice to direct and do it, and then. I don't know what to believe with who was considered for Nick. It was basically every white actor from 1992.

[Van Lathan]

The two other ones that were really big were Linda Fiorentino as Beth and this is insane. But Brooke Shields as Roxy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Saw that.

[Van Lathan]

You don't want to comment.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just. There's no way. She just never would have done it. Best that Guy award. Newman, ineligible. Groundhog guy. The Groundhog Day guy. Stephen Tablowski. He's ineligible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Dickie Greenleaf's dad, The principal headmaster from Senate, woman, James Redbourn, ineligible.

[Van Lathan]

Why is he ineligible?

[Bill Simmons]

Because he's James reborn. Go ahead, Craig.

[Ben]

Getting real, real, real weird.

[Craig Horabeck]

The fact that you have to say the guy from Groundhog Day.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Roxy wins the that Guy award. No. Because if you see her, you think it's Roxy.

[Ben]

No, it's not her. No.

[Van Lathan]

You're changing the definition so many times, and you're like, that guy. We never see Roxy again. Except for Days of Thunder.

[Bill Simmons]

Sorry. Days of Thunder.

[Ben]

Right.

[Craig Horabeck]

It's like, who would the most amount of people in this room be like, oh, that guy. When they See him on screen.

[Bill Simmons]

So probably James Redburn. That's fine.

[Ben]

What about. Okay, so the sheriff.

[Van Lathan]

Starting five.

[Ben]

Jack McGee, who plays the sheriff. He's also in Scrooge.

[Van Lathan]

Bruce, a young. Who is the guy who says he had a minute amount of cocaine on the penis and in the Chelsea Ross.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm a team player. You can give it to whoever you want. Can we give Roxy the Dion Waiters Award?

[Mallory Rubin]

That Definitely.

[Ben]

Thank you.

[Craig Horabeck]

No question.

[Bill Simmons]

So is this a hall of fame? DM Waiters.

[Van Lathan]

I've recently become really obsessed with these Instagram videos where it'll be like, Cam Chancellor being like, when I was out there, I was looking to kill. And then a fucking Drake song drops. And it's just Cam Chancellor hits for like two and a half minutes. They should make one for Roxy, just with her footage and Basic Instinct. Oh, I forgot where I was.

[Bill Simmons]

My bad recasting couch. Director City. So Hazel Dobbins. Does the character work better if it's just Jacqueline Bissett just throwing that out there? Wow. Dead silence from the crowd.

[Ben]

Very tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's walk through a Tom Cruise as Nick.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't want to get in the car with this, but let's take a stroll around the block. Little younger. I think he brings the same amount of unintentional comedy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

There's probably a running scene at one point.

[Craig Horabeck]

Probably across the Golden Gate.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, right. He's running the Golden Gate for no reason at all.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Yeah.

[Craig Horabeck]

He's running to Stinson Beach.

[Bill Simmons]

We van we get to watch a picture.

[Craig Horabeck]

I'll see you there.

[Van Lathan]

I'll run.

[Bill Simmons]

We'd get to watch him smoke. Nothing would be funnier than Tom Cruise ripping off Marlboro Reds.

[Van Lathan]

That'd be great.

[Bill Simmons]

Him trying to have sexual chemistry with Sharon Stone, who's, like, working overtime. I would love that.

[Van Lathan]

Him nude talking to Roxy in the bathroom. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Nude Tom Cruise.

[Van Lathan]

Let me ask you something, Rocky.

[Mallory Rubin]

Man to man.

[Bill Simmons]

Him in the nightclub scene, like, he's

[Ben]

definitely in the nightclub. He's going to fucking dance.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

He's not gonna be able to stay away. The beat's gonna fucking completely destroy him.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, I don't know if you wanna imitate Tom Cruise in the cunnilingus scene. This has turned into E.T. it's like E.T. coming out of the closet. I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

I could see it.

[Ben]

I see what you're saying.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So would you go Cruz or Douglas if you had to redo this? I feel like I would go Cruise.

[Ben]

You gotta go Douglas, man.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think, Craig?

[Mallory Rubin]

You Gotta go to Douglas.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, fine. Craig, you have a flex category.

[Van Lathan]

Vincent Chase award.

[Craig Horabeck]

Are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Kathryn Tramell, fantastic planner, messy killer, reckless stabber. 31 stabs on Johnny Boss.

[Van Lathan]

Why?

[Craig Horabeck]

Why are you 30? Act like you've been there before. Jesus Christ. He's dead after five.

[Van Lathan]

I thought you were acting. Actually going to say, we don't know what kind of writer she was.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that too.

[Van Lathan]

I know she was fast because she would just like, be like, I'm on to Nick Shooter's done. Now we're going on to the next one.

[Craig Horabeck]

Also, in the script, it says only 16 stabs for some reason, up to 31 in the real movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

There is when she gives the. The copy of the. The first. The book about the kid who killed his parents in the plane crash. It. There's like a Newsweek blurb on there about what a masterpiece it is. And it does say on the top bestseller.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, so all the more reason why it would be hard for her to be a mass murderer.

[Craig Horabeck]

I mean, also like, leaving the ice pick and the scene of the crime. Like she's just buying ice picks.

[Mallory Rubin]

But that's the whole game, right? It's like. It's the taunt. Yeah, they're the, you know, ice picks

[Craig Horabeck]

around, no regard for DNA. Messy, reckless. I don't like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Van, if you.

[Craig Horabeck]

Nielsen in the head in broad daylight

[Mallory Rubin]

in a car, she got away with all of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Van, if you were dating her when you went to bed at night, would you check in different parts of the bed for the ice pick just to make sure, or would you just let it go?

[Ben]

Nah, when you date crazy, you, like, you buy in. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

I would have like a metal detector that works like a Roomba going around looking for an ice pick all over.

[Craig Horabeck]

Did you guys see that? Sharon Stone, literally, as she was stabbing Bill Cable, the guy who played Johnny Boss, stabbed him so hard it went through the blood pack and pierced his skin. And he went to the hospital too much.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, she's really committed.

[Ben]

Get off me.

[Bill Simmons]

Quick half ass Internet research. No body doubles used in any sex scenes. Yep. We mentioned the five days to film the big sex scene. Douglas declined to go full frontal. Yeah, in the film, which apparently he had in his contract. The patriarchs.

[Van Lathan]

The patriarchy is so real in my contract.

[Craig Horabeck]

I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Side dick, though.

[Bill Simmons]

So the first sex scene with Douglas and Triple Horn, it was the rehearsal scene. And Creepypurv Verhoeven was like that was good. Let's keep that as the main. And they didn't even know they were filming it as the real scene. Pretty weird. Strange guy. And then in Hollywood, Animal, Joe Esterhaus's book, he claimed that he slept with Sharon Stone after the movie came out. That was in the book. Sure he did. Yeah. I don't. I think he was.

[Van Lathan]

Esther Haas wrote this movie over the course of 10 days with no outline while listening to the Stones, which is a great euphemism for on cocaine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You can't tell.

[Van Lathan]

And then in the making of. I had to bring this up is Verhoeven describes Nick as, quote, a cop who has gone through some bad times and has done some things that we might consider wrong,

[Bill Simmons]

including four murders.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Ben]

All right, you know what category we didn't do? We didn't do? Does this movie need more black people? No. It's a killer clap on this. He killing everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain is another category we do where we decide if this was the peak of somebody's something.

[Van Lathan]

Got it.

[Bill Simmons]

Controversial category. Michael Douglas. I'm going to say no, no, no. Sharon Stone. Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe Esterhaus. Yes. Ceiling sex mirrors.

[Mallory Rubin]

Could be.

[Bill Simmons]

Has it been done better than this? I don't.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that this is maybe the. The end of the peak of Ceiling sex mirrors?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I know. Cribs brought back.

[Van Lathan]

Cribs brought it back.

[Bill Simmons]

I think, like, three members of the Trailblazers had the ceiling mirrors. I remember Zach Randolph definitely had it. San Francisco movies. Probably not.

[Ben]

Probably not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Erratic thrillers. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Freeze frame moments. Like moments you pause on in a sad dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Freeze frame.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a personal.

[Craig Horabeck]

Apex.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Phoebe Kates.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it for Gene? Triple horn. Because it's probably the firm, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Firm. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Isn't that like, right around this time? Isn't92 is kind of like breaks out Apex?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Coke and Jack Daniels. Oh, sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Got Pepsi in the fridge.

[Bill Simmons]

Elevator murders. I'm gonna go dress to kill. Gratuitous male actor ass shots. I think maybe.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah. So there was a whole competition. So look, bust this. So he, like. So he had to show his butt. He had no problem. He's in a white butt competition.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. This was the apex of white butt competitions.

[Ben]

Mel Gibson's butt. Lethal Weapon. Kevin Costner's butt. Robin Hood. Bruce Willis butt. Later on in Color of Night, Douglas was like, you know what? I got the ass. Douglas.

[Bill Simmons]

Thee.

[Ben]

Stallion.

[Bill Simmons]

Gotta do it.

[Ben]

I'm gonna show y'. All. I got that. And that's he had to show his butt. He probably wanted to show it.

[Bill Simmons]

He lost 25 pounds for the filming of the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

He looks great.

[Van Lathan]

That shape of his life.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't get to give this award all the time, but it's the Floyd Gondoli.

[Ben]

Hold on for a second. Apex Mountain. I got a couple of things.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, what do you got?

[Ben]

Ice picks.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Apex Mountain ring. Ice picks.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

The crowd's applauding. Ice picks. What's happened to all of you?

[Ben]

We've.

[Bill Simmons]

We've corrupted you in less than 90 minutes.

[Ben]

Ice picks. Your therapist. I think this is like way up there. Your therapist right here.

[Bill Simmons]

Not Sopranos.

[Ben]

Also Sopranos. They never fantasy scenes.

[Mallory Rubin]

But the. Yeah, the fantasy.

[Van Lathan]

Prince of Tides.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought you said the princess.

[Van Lathan]

I did for a second. Yeah. Streisand and Nolte have sex and Princess of Tides.

[Bill Simmons]

I honestly.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Haven't whipped that one out in a while. Women on top.

[Ben]

Woman on top. Woman on top.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, like, you know, it might be

[Ben]

ladies get loud for that. Now. We know y' all like that. It only actually feels good to y', all, but like it like, like, oh, Adora. Yeah, like woman on top. Like, this is when she wants to exert her power. She flips over and that's how she does her thing. Woman on top.

[Bill Simmons]

The Floyd Gandali butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. Here you go. Cr.

[Van Lathan]

For me, it's cops getting in too deep now.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll even go a little further when an unraveling and supposedly sober cop shows up at the police bar and orders a double.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And multiple cops go, oh, no, there he is. Nick shrinking again. I'm in every time. I just love it. Do you guys have any for that or should we keep going?

[Ben]

Not wearing any underwear. So look, I love this, okay? Who told women they had to wear underwear? Men don't listen, okay? Let that thing out. You see what I'm saying? And also, I'm gonna be honest with you guys. I like doing it. Okay. Last year I got a wax job.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

What's going on right now?

[Mallory Rubin]

He chronicled this on his podcast.

[Ben]

Last year I got a wax job.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very memorable.

[Ben]

She waxed the entire thing. And like, three quarter way through the wax, she goes, I love what you do. And I'm like, this is a little weird, but that's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no.

[Ben]

And after that, it's just. It feels sexy, dog.

[Van Lathan]

That is probably closer to the Floyd Gondoli, like, essence of this category than we ever get.

[Bill Simmons]

So Craig's on LinkedIn right now looking, looking around. We don't get to give this award out very much. The he got game hooker scene for most awkward scene. If someone randomly walks into the room, there's like five different scenes where your mother in law's coming down and you thought she was asleep. Yeah, yeah. Pick a nits. Why didn't Johnny Boz's corpse have a rigor mortis boner?

[Van Lathan]

Did it.

[Craig Horabeck]

You want me to Google didn't?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that's why you have the computer. When you die, don't you just die? Like everything's intact?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if it's like getting frozen in carbonite. Like it's like the second your heart stops, you're like,

[Bill Simmons]

Are we sure it's not though?

[Van Lathan]

Do we have a doctorate now?

[Craig Horabeck]

It is a thing. A death erection.

[Mallory Rubin]

But he doesn't have an erection. No.

[Ben]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

Third deck. Thank you. How did Hazel Dobbins get out of jail? I just. Nine years she served her time. Four husband and three kids gone. Let's let her out. I have a few more, but. Sierra, you have any.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, when does Catherine write?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I had this too. She wrote shooter in two weeks.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, she writes shooter in a matter of weeks. And she most of the time is having sex, doing cocaine or driving around

[Bill Simmons]

San Francisco or hanging out on Nick's doorstep waiting for him to come home

[Van Lathan]

like, hey, got you a house plant.

[Bill Simmons]

Prolific writer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, she's a genius. She is.

[Ben]

Okay, I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So after the first time they have sex, you know, this big. He spoons her. Nigga, this your girl now.

[Mallory Rubin]

But he's in love with her, so

[Ben]

don't fuck all that. Nah, spooning is for Sunday. We watching Avengers endgame on tnt. It takes up the whole fucking afternoon. You do not spoon the psycho killer girl that you are investigating. He wants. He nuzzles up next to her, puts his hand over, she calls her. What the fuck is up with you, homie? He got no homeboys. You spooning that quick simp ass motherfucker cr.

[Van Lathan]

That was my picking. It was really about Katherine's rating.

[Bill Simmons]

Mal, you have any?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think the fact that Nick gets hit by a moving vehicle, that Roxy drives a Lotus into him and he is unaffected. He like, shakes his head once as he gets behind the wheel, like that's the concussion protocol. One head shake, no blood, no injuries, no damage to the car, which of course then will be damaged when it fall, rolls over the cliff, killing Roxy, who has no injuries, no blood on

[Bill Simmons]

her, despite the car being injuries?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Crazy. Ludicrous.

[Craig Horabeck]

Why did Johnny Boss give all of his money to her? Why was she the only one available to get the $100 million?

[Bill Simmons]

Was that who she got? I thought she got it from her parents.

[Craig Horabeck]

I thought it was Boss's money went to her after he died. No.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe he gets hit off, she gets them. But she's rich because of her parents.

[Craig Horabeck]

Because killing her parents.

[Bill Simmons]

So Beth. Yeah, as a nitpick, she falls for the broke, cocaine using alcoholic with one friend who shoots people randomly once a year and just had his wife kill her, kill herself. And she's like, when are you going to dinner tonight? Would you like to come?

[Mallory Rubin]

Her dying words are, I loved you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, like this was it for beth. This guy's 20 years older than her.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's a psychiatrist. So this is like. This is her cocaine. Right? Like a good time every night with Nick.

[Ben]

This is consistent, though.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So in the Departed, she falls in love.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Ben]

Like in the Sopranos, there's always this thing between Melfi, like, what's going on with these therapists? I think they like that type of dumb ass shit.

[Bill Simmons]

They like the danger. Any more nitpicks? Cause I'm gonna move on. Sequel. Prequel. Prestige tv. All Black Cast or Untouchable? I'd like to at least walk through All Black Cast. What is. Cause I feel like they have tried to make versions of this. What's. There's the one with. I'm trying to think.

[Ben]

Help me out, okay? What you talking about? Which one? Like Obsessed?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's the one with Ally Larder.

[Ben]

Oh, Obsessed. That's called Obsessed. With Beyonce. Beyonce's in that motherfucker. And Idris Elba.

[Bill Simmons]

There's nothing with Megan. Good. But they haven't.

[Ben]

Good.

[Bill Simmons]

They never really pulled it off.

[Ben]

They haven't really pulled it off. There's a thin line between love and hate that actually takes place in the Bay. Like with Martin Lawrence and Lynne Whitfield and stuff like that. It's tough. We don't like depicting our sisters like that. You know what I'm saying? Our sisters don't get obsessed and shit like that. Prestige tv? Could that work?

[Van Lathan]

Only to explain the ending.

[Craig Horabeck]

I would.

[Van Lathan]

I don't. I mean, I guess you could. You could do it as Prestige tv. I. I will note.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you go backwards to Berkeley with Beth?

[Van Lathan]

And I would go back to the Manny Vasquez years.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The boxing. I'd make a boxing show with Catherine as his girlfriend. But you know they made Basic Instinct too much maligned, right?

[Bill Simmons]

It's horrible. Please don't rent Basic Instinct.

[Van Lathan]

A year ago, Joe Eszterhas, who is

[Ad]

80,

[Van Lathan]

reportedly sold a screenplay to Amazon for $2 million that was going to be an anti woke reboot of Basic Instinct. Because Basic Instinct is too woke. And he gave this quote to those who question what an 80 year old man is doing writing a sexy erotic thriller. The rumors of my cinematic impotence are exaggerated. And Aegist, I call my writing partner, all caps. The twisted little man. And he lives somewhere deep inside me. He was born 29, he will die 29. And he tells me sky high up to write this piece and provide viewers with a wild and orgasmic ride. Do you want to see this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

We should have made you read that as Vincent Hanna. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie, the florist, Zane Lowe or somebody else?

[Van Lathan]

Here, Nick, man. From nights of cocaine fueled sex to days of shooting tourists, you've done it all. So what is it that gets you fired up? Could it be the best selling author of mass market paperbacks uncrossing her legs in the interrogation room? And where does Nick Curran go from here?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible. Incredible. Amazing. I. I was hoping you would do. Wayne, give us, give us a quick Wayne. Here's the context. Catherine is on a godamn tour. She's gone to Baltimore on her book tour. Go.

[Van Lathan]

What is she doing in Baltimore on

[Mallory Rubin]

a book tour for her bestseller?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I was just gonna say if Wayne was Gus, it would be like, God damn, Nick. You got sweetie birds flying around your head.

[Mallory Rubin]

Give us magna cum laude in a Baltimore accent. Do it.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not prepared for this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Going down to the ocean.

[Bill Simmons]

Han, can I give you Ryan Ruko, please?

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Announcing the first scene in the movie. Catherine's writing and now she's reaching back. Is she going for the ice pack?

[Van Lathan]

You bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Shout out to Ruko. Just one Oscar who gets it?

[Van Lathan]

Stone.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we all agree, probably unanswerable questions. Van, was it a big deal when Manny the boxer died in the ring in 1984? Like cover of Sports Illustrated.

[Ben]

Had to be a huge deal, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Like lead Sports Center. Yeah, I felt like it was a big deal too.

[Van Lathan]

That was also another really weird cop moment is when they're like, maybe if she put on afro and did blackface, she could be mad. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Ben]

See, I was gonna let it slide.

[Bill Simmons]

How long did they date after the movie ended?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, how long till she kills him? Right? Because that's the answer.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Nick still alive in 1995?

[Van Lathan]

No. Nick has died of a massive Thursday.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah, yeah. He mentions Rugrats at the grocery store later that day and she stabs him.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think if he doesn't retract the Rugrats line because she's like, I hate Rugrats. She kills him right then and there. No question. So it's gotta be just a matter of days. I'm always on the unanswerable questions. And how long does he last front? Like, at what point is he like, let me see some more of your pages about this detective, so that I can just avoid the exact scenario that you have crafted and live a little longer. But he doesn't ask.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Montana goes to the Chiefs. Nick unravels. He's back on the coke. And then she just kills him. Cause he's annoying. Yeah, she just had it. She stabs him.

[Ben]

Death.

[Bill Simmons]

Should she have just killed him at the ending? Is that a better ending?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, I think you would be.

[Bill Simmons]

If she murders him and that's the end of the movie.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think it would be like a fun theater going experience if the last thing you see is Michael Douglas dying. Maybe it would be just if the

[Ben]

movie ends not with his actual death, but with her grabbing the ice pick. Like actually grabbing the ice pick. Then you leave on something a little bit more.

[Bill Simmons]

And we do like the Sopranos ending kind of same.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like the. I like it just like it is because it's there. She reaches for it, then she retracts. So there's enough to like. I mean, you wanted to debate whether I was curious.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, like, I think I weirdly, like, there's 8% of me that's like. But Beth could have done. Could have done it. And Catherine also crazy. The ice pick's just there at the same time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I like that. This is your, like, spinning top at the end of Inception. Yeah, you're like, was it moving?

[Van Lathan]

Is haunted for 30 years.

[Bill Simmons]

Secret handshake club memorabilia you'd want from this movie. A copy of Love Hurts by Katherine Wolf.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ooh, V neck shooter.

[Bill Simmons]

The V neck sweater.

[Van Lathan]

V neck.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you wear it?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, if I had it, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have, Craig?

[Craig Horabeck]

Those. Those giant red, like, seaman glasses that he wears.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Horabeck]

Imagine I just got those on when you come over, I'm like, you know what these are for?

[Van Lathan]

From great one, Johnny Boss's apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

They're called the Sedable. New from Chrome Hearts. What would you have, Van?

[Ben]

I want the ice pick.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Of course. It's got to be the ice pick or the mirror. Ceiling mirror.

[Craig Horabeck]

Mal, the storyboards.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I mean.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God, the storyboards are good.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be great. I would frame them and I would display them tastefully next to my ceiling mirror.

[Craig Horabeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Coach Finock Mr. Miyagi Award for best worst life lesson. I think it's. It's actually worth it to risk it all for the fuck of the century, I think is the lesson of this movie. I think Nick wins, gets a girlfriend, breaks up with somebody he didn't really like that much anyway. Gets out of a murder investigation, gets rid of everybody at work that he kind of hated. Big Dub, she's loaded.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's got money, beautiful properties. I think the life lesson is wash your sheets.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah,

[Ben]

I think the life lesson is what ha said. That's her pussy talking. It ain't your brain. That happens.

[Bill Simmons]

Ciara, what do you got for double feature choice?

[Van Lathan]

Jagged Edge. It's another Joe Eszterhouse thriller. And it's also set in San Francisco.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that movie. I had Total recall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, Fatal attraction.

[Bill Simmons]

Double ver. Oh, fatal.

[Ben]

I had body of Evidence, the Douglas film, which is the bad version of this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie's awful.

[Ben]

With Madonna and Willem Dafoe, which is interesting because the masturbation scene that you said that you wanted.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

They actually do that in body of Evidence. And Willem Dafoe is completely unprepared for it. Madonna just fucking goes for it, and he doesn't know what to do. The green goblin is like, what works every time.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a really horrible movie. Who won the movie off? Sharon Stone.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. We've never done this on a live show. Craig. We always go to him at the end to see what he thought of the movie. But you'd already seen this one.

[Craig Horabeck]

Well, because we did this five years ago. That was when I watched it, but I don't think you asked me on that show. This movie is just elite entertainment. We didn't know how good we had it in the early 90s. It's crazy to me that this movie was reviewed poorly compared to what we have now. This movie looks fantastic. It has a lead actor, great performance. It's based off nothing. Huge star in it, made $400 million. Like, this would be the achievement of the fucking decade if this movie came out right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, agreed.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, There we go. I would also. It's a very good 4K Blu Ray.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, I bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Physical media era. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

For the San Francisco scenes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

No, but in all seriousness, though, one reason why this movie holds up, or it's so good, or you can watch it now and digest it so easily is because San Francisco is a character in a movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Ben]

And we're not making as many movies where Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego are characters in these movies. And they are just like those cities are immaculate in terms of the way you can film them.

[Van Lathan]

You can't fake beautiful, you can't fake San Francisco.

[Ben]

And so that going away makes you have to make this movie. Like in fucking Piano or something like that. The volume or something, and it's Basic

[Mallory Rubin]

Instinct in the volume would be pretty funny.

[Ben]

It's fucking stupid, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's its legacy. But also, you know, Michael Douglas saying, I don't remember how often I used to jerk off, but it was a lot. Also important calluses, San Francisco's beauty and that.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, you don't want to have calluses. That's bad. Yeah, that'll hurt your guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You guys take San Francisco for granted because you live here. But the city's awesome and it's a really, really, really, really great movie location city. When you even walk around, you kind of feel like you're in a movie when you're here with all the hills and everything. If I lived here, the power walking, I was telling them my legs, my legs would be like Adrian Peterson. I would just be. I'd be in the greatest shape of my life. Thank God I don't live here. Listen, thanks for coming out. We had a great time.

[Craig Horabeck]

Thank you, you so much, guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Awesome. We. We love this theater. So we're going to come back, but thanks for having us. Thanks for coming out. Have a great rest of the night. Thank.