‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Summary

The Rewatchables Podcast Summary: In-Depth Discussion of "Blue Chips"

Episode Overview In the March 25, 2025 episode of The Rewatchables, hosted by Bill Simmons alongside Chris Ryan and Van Lathan, the trio delves deep into the 1994 sports drama "Blue Chips". This episode explores the film's portrayal of college basketball, its characters, themes of corruption, and its enduring legacy within the sports movie genre.

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1. Setting the Stage for "Blue Chips" The episode begins with Bill Simmons announcing the Rewatchables Film Festival in Boston, screening favorite movies at the historic Coolidge Corner Theater. Following promotional segments, the hosts transition to discussing recent television shows before zeroing in on the main topic: "Blue Chips".

2. Personal Reflections and Nostalgia Bill Simmons shares his initial ambivalence towards "Blue Chips" when he first wrote about it in the mid-2000s. Over time, his appreciation grew, particularly valuing its nostalgic representation of an era in college basketball.

Bill Simmons [03:07]: "I really enjoyed rewatching this."

Van Lathan echoes this sentiment, noting the film's unique placement as an inverted sports movie that diverges from typical uplifting narratives to present a more cynical view of college sports.

Van Lathan [04:34]: "It's an inverted sports movie... it's a feel-bad sports movie."

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3. Themes of Corruption and Moral Compromise A significant portion of the discussion centers on the film's exploration of corruption within college basketball, particularly through the practices of point shaving and illicit recruiting.

Chris Ryan [07:22]: "But also, it's an easy watch. It's a... The movie doesn't get too deep into it."

The hosts draw parallels between the movie's depiction and the real-world Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) era, emphasizing how "Blue Chips" anticipated the commercialization of college sports.

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4. Casting Choices and Performances Shaquille O'Neal's role as a talented but conflicted athlete is lauded for its authenticity. Despite initial skepticism about his acting abilities, Shaq's performance stands out as a highlight.

Chris Ryan [27:29]: "Shaq takes a lot of shit for his acting. I think he's like, borderline stealing scenes when he's in there."

In contrast, other athletes in the film are critiqued for their lackluster performances, making Shaq's presence even more impactful. Nick Nolte as Coach Pete Bell receives praise for embodying the intense, morally ambiguous coach archetype, reminiscent of Bobby Knight.

Van Lathan [15:11]: "I think Nick Nolte is perfectly cast because these coaches do have this kind of irascible, never-happy vibe to them."

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5. Technical Aspects: Filming Basketball Scenes The podcast delves into the technical challenges of filming authentic basketball scenes. The hosts discuss how "Blue Chips" attempted to elevate the standard sports movie by incorporating real players and genuine game footage.

Van Lathan [18:18]: "Basketball is so difficult to capture."

They compare the film's approach to others like "White Men Can't Jump," emphasizing the complexity of portraying fast-paced, high-stakes basketball action on screen.

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6. Memorable Scenes and Rewatchable Moments Several scenes from "Blue Chips" are highlighted for their rewatchability:

• Point Shaving Shootout: The intense free-throw sequence involving J.T. Walsh's character and the introduction of Bob Koozie is praised for its tension and realism.

  Bill Simmons [25:06]: "I like seeing Butch McCray in Chicago."

• Pete Bell’s Press Conference: The raw emotional breakdown of Coach Bell serves as a pivotal moment, showcasing his internal conflict and the ramifications of his corrupt actions.

  Bill Simmons [80:24]: "This is a perplexing scene because it shows Pete grappling with his conscience."

• Recruiting Trips: The strategic and morally questionable recruiting methods employed by Coach Bell are dissected, highlighting the film's critique of the NCAA's restrictions.

  Chris Ryan [22:32]: "The practices are the stuff to me that actually grounded the movie and being actual college basketball and authentic."

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7. Hypothetical Scenarios and Recasting The hosts engage in thoughtful "what-if" scenarios, contemplating how different casting choices or directorial decisions might have altered the film's impact. For instance, they speculate on the ramifications if Ron Shelton had directed the movie, potentially infusing it with more humor and warmth.

Chris Ryan [85:42]: "If Shelton directs it, it's one of the great basketball films."

They also imagine alternative actors for pivotal roles, debating the potential strengths and weaknesses these changes could introduce.

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8. Legacy and Cultural Impact Despite its underwhelming box office performance, "Blue Chips" is acknowledged for its lasting influence on the sports movie genre. The hosts discuss how the film resonates today, especially in the context of evolving college sports dynamics and ongoing debates about athlete compensation.

Bill Simmons [05:55]: "Now we're actually in the era. It's... you know, I remember I saw this movie in the theater with my dad."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Van Lathan [04:34]: "It's an inverted sports movie... it's a feel-bad sports movie."
• Bill Simmons [03:20]: "I really enjoyed rewatching this."
• Chris Ryan [07:22]: "But also, it's an easy watch. It's a... The movie doesn't get too deep into it."
• Chris Ryan [27:29]: "Shaq takes a lot of shit for his acting. I think he's like, borderline stealing scenes when he's in there."
• Van Lathan [15:11]: "I think Nick Nolte is perfectly cast because these coaches do have this kind of irascible, never-happy vibe to them."

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Conclusion The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of "Blue Chips," blending nostalgic appreciation with critical analysis. Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan offer listeners a nuanced perspective on why the film remains a topic of conversation among movie enthusiasts and sports fans alike. Their discussion underscores the complexities of portraying real-world issues within the framework of a sports narrative, highlighting the film's strengths and shortcomings.

For more detailed discussions and to watch the complete archives, visit theringer.com/events or the Ringer Movies YouTube Channel.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Hey Rewatchables fans. You already knew we were coming to Boston for a sold out show on March 27, but what you didn't know is we're sticking around that weekend. We're going to host our first ever Rewatchables Film Festival. While we're in Boston, we're screening some of our favorite movies, movies that we have done on this podcast, plus maybe a couple others at the historic Coolidge Corner Theater. We're doing it all weekend from March 28th through March 30th. One of my favorite theaters in America. We might even make a few surprise appearances at a couple of these screenings. It's your chance to see some of our favorites as they were meant to be seen on the big screen. Classic mob heist Boston movies. We love Goodfellas, the Town that Departed. Oh yeah, we're doing Heat again. It's gonna kick off Friday, March 28th at the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline. Visit theringer.comevents for show times and ticket information. Hopefully we'll see you there. Your data is like gold to hackers.

[Chris Ryan]

They'll sell it to the highest bidder.

[Bill Simmons]

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

The Rewatchable is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find all of our video on Spotify as video podcasts as well as The Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can find Chris Ryan doing the watch.

[Van Lathan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Some good TV lately.

[Van Lathan]

Finally uplifting adolescence. Yeah, talk about that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And then White Lotus. Last of us is coming. A lot of good stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Van Higher learning.

[Chris Ryan]

Higher learning. Midnight boys. What? Don't do it, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

I said pew. Pew.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you. Lots of stuff going on. Lots of political news. Lots of news in the superhero space. Great pod that we did just recently. Me, Sean, Joe Cr.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the pod?

[Van Lathan]

It was about the state of the MCU and superhero movies, and he's skipping that one.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so Bill tells people not to listen.

[Van Lathan]

So, yeah, he's skipping it. It doesn't mean.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no. That sounds like a great idea for a pod. You know my feelings. I could come in for a cameo at the end and been like, yeah, I've been here for 10 years.

[Van Lathan]

He's got to light a couple more candles for Abdul Carter.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Start.

[Van Lathan]

All right, well, Cleveland Browns reporters, we're.

[Bill Simmons]

Going to talk about a very polarizing sports movie that is somehow weirdly endearing. Blue Chips is next. We don't buy athletes.

[Chris Ryan]

All the other are doing it. Coach. We owe them this money. I figure about 30 grand. Like to have it in cash. Did you cheat? He bought him, Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

I know he bought him. Did you take money?

[Chris Ryan]

We owe it to him. Nick nolte and Shaquille O'Neal.

[Bill Simmons]

Blue Chips rated PG13. Starts Friday, February 18, at theaters everywhere. All right, guys, so I wrote this in the mid 2000s about blue chips. I wrote that it would. It turned out to be the Penny Hardaway of sports movies. Ironically, unlimited potential, great start, peaked early, some ups and downs, ultimately disappointing, and then kind of grows on you year after year. And I wrote that mid 2000s, we did like kind of a tester sports movie hall of Fame pod maybe eight years ago. And I liked it more. Yeah. And now we're in 225 all these years later. And I like it more than I used to. And I think it just makes me nostalgic for whatever this weird era of sports movies and young skinny Shaq and young Penny Hardaway and Nick Nolte and whatever they're trying to do in this movie. I don't know. I really enjoyed rewatching this.

[Van Lathan]

I think it actually is an inverted sports movie. And if you look at it that way, it works better. It's inverted because it's a feel bad sports movie. It starts out with them losing. It starts out. Then it goes to him compromising on his principles, and then it goes to. His career's over.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no heroes. There's no takeaways. No, there's a lot of unintentional comedy. Van. There's some really fun basketball that's shot in a super weird way, but it's still compelling to watch. But you're watching it going, why didn't they just bring the camera back? I just would have loved to have seen all of these famous players from the 90s. Play together. And Louisiana's in it, so I know your feelings.

[Chris Ryan]

Love it. Well, first of all, it was part of Shaq's media rollout as a pro.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Shaq and Penny together was like, oh, my gosh. Shaq and Penny are in a movie.

[Bill Simmons]

But we barely knew who Penny was.

[Chris Ryan]

Barely knew who at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaq had real gravitas.

[Chris Ryan]

Shaq was a gigantic star, but Penny was. Memphis was still Memphis State at this. At this point, Penny was this silky smooth, big guard from Memphis State. And then when you see him in the movie, it's part of what makes him a celebrity. But the film itself also is interesting in that it predicts the future. It's an easier film to watch retrospectively because so many of the things that it was about came to pass.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's why we want to do this, because now we're in the Nil era, which is the era that Blue Chips was telling us for 30 years we should be in this era.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And now we're actually in the era. And it's. You know, I remember I saw this movie in the theater with my. My dad and my buddy Kurt Sanger, and we were really excited.

[Van Lathan]

There's something every time you mention a guy, you went to the movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Kurt Sanger, the Juice Man. For sure.

[Chris Ryan]

The Juice Man.

[Bill Simmons]

He was in town. We call him Juice. It was one of those things where we would give. We also had a friend named Night Train. We would give our friends weird nicknames.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We would do, like, weird football nicknames from the 40s and 50s just. Just for normal people.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

But anyway, we saw this movie. Super excited. Nick Dolte Free excited because you thought.

[Van Lathan]

It was gonna be, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Thought it was gonna be great. It's like. And this was the era where sports movies had shifted from that Rocky model that we talked about in the Rocky Pod, which goes from, like, through Hoosiers to the late 80s. Then there's, like, a little kids era, but then the Ron Shelton era comes in. He wrote this movie. Bull Durhams Happened. We're moving toward, like, a more sophisticated sports movie, but we're not quite here that there yet. And this movie never really figured out what it wanted to be, but on cable, still, like, really rewatchable. And I think it has a weird kind of. Kind of tail.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, it. For sure. Number one. I mean, you know, it's. It has that tale because of nostalgia. Has that tale because of the relevance of the subject matter of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But also, it's an easy watch. It's It's a. The movie doesn't. It talks a little bit about some of the poverty that the players live in and, like, what they're going through, but it doesn't get too deep into it. It talks a little bit about the corruption of the ncaa, the ncsa, or their draconian rules, should I say? But it doesn't really go too hard into it. You know, Happy is a very easy villain to root against.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, Chris isn't rooting against him. To Chris, this is a happy movie. It's a J.T. walsh extravaganza.

[Chris Ryan]

Love J.T. walsh. You know what's funny? If in today, in today's world, Happy.

[Van Lathan]

Would run, Happy is the hero, and.

[Chris Ryan]

Pete Bell, the guy who doesn't want to pay the players, he's the villain. If you. If you do the movie today, there.

[Bill Simmons]

Was a nostalgia thing in a couple different ways, but one of the things that, you know, it was such a big deal that all these college guys were in the movie and even, like, Calber, Chaney and Hurley and people like that in the game scenes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I was just thinking about how much we cared about college basketball. When I was in college, like, we were talking about, it was the anniversary. It was St. Patrick's Day, and I was on a thread with my college buddies, and, like, one of my great sports members in college was Princeton and Georgetown.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On St. Patrick's Day.

[Van Lathan]

Carroll team.

[Bill Simmons]

And we were just at a party watching that, and the entire campus was locked in on that game. Like, we all watched the Laetner shot game together. We really cared about Kenny Anderson at Georgia Tech and what Shaq was going to do on lsu and just in Laetner was like, a college God. And UNLV Larry Johnson just showing up and being like. Seemed like he was, like, 25 and just kicking ass. We cared about all these people. So them being in this movie with Bobby Knight, with Pitino, with Bayheim, with Tark, as, like, these funny characters, like, it really meant something back then.

[Van Lathan]

Well, we also obviously naively believed in, like, the power of these institutions, institutions to recruit these players just, like, based on the reputation alone. And one of the things that I remember so clearly about, like, my college basketball fandom back in Philly was, like, when a kid would go to a school that was kind of on a little bit of a downswing, it's like, no, like, Mark Macon's gonna revive, so and so's coming. This guy's go. Can you believe that this guy's going to lsu? Like, this is amazing. And we were with short of, like, we were like, hounding recruiting newsletters or anything, but we were, like, very aware when a big time freshman will come into his school and how that might change everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Shaq and. And Chris Jackson, who then became McMotto Duro.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But those days, being on LSU together.

[Van Lathan]

It was like a huge penny going to Memphis. But the fact that this movie was so explicitly broadcast as being about recruiting and about bringing these guys in, and it was very obviously the gonna be like, this is like ucla, you know what I mean? And there was a bunch of real coaches, real players were going to be in it. It was like. I think you were almost led in to believe, like, this is going to be basically a movie version of my college basketball fandom. And it wound up being like, hey.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was directed by the guy from the Exorcist.

[Van Lathan]

And this whole thing is about as. As about as morally upright as New York City was during the French Connection.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And, you know, at that point, just back to the shield Shaquille O'Neal thing. At that point, there was just so much interest in him, like, in a way that, I don't know, I mean, I guess LeBron, right. Like, in terms of all those college.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, Fab 5, Shaq. Yeah. But there was Latener. Those guys were like, massive stars.

[Chris Ryan]

And Shaq didn't do the thing that a lot of players do where they play four or five years in the league, and then they go, you know what? I want to be a multimedia star. I want to rap, and I want to do all of that stuff after they've gotten their feet wet in basketball. No. Shaq got into our cultural sphere and was like, I'm gonna do all of these things, and you guys are gonna deal with Shaquille O'Neal as an entertainment force for, like, the rest of.

[Bill Simmons]

Took backlash for it.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. He did. Took a lot of backlash.

[Bill Simmons]

We were on a tech start talking about that. And I was. I was saying how I thought it took a while for Shaq to become kind of. He was pretty polarizing because he was trying to. He was trying to be in movies, he was trying to rape. He was doing commercials. And there was this attitude of, like, you haven't earned any of this yet. Like, win a playoff series. What is this guy doing?

[Chris Ryan]

What I'm saying is that was a testament to the fact that you could become a real deal superstar.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Off college basketball, like, and you could become, like, this complete household name.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Based on what you did in college. Basketball like a Christian Laettner did or Patrick Ewing did.

[Bill Simmons]

Chris mentioned Mark Macon. I was like. I was invested in Mark Macon. I really liked his game. But there was like 50 of those dudes that year. Kenny Anderson was with D. Scott, who was the third guy.

[Van Lathan]

Brian Oliver, Lethal Weapon 3.

[Bill Simmons]

We love that team. I remember watching a March Madness game late night with those guys there on the west coast, hoping, you know, we. And what do I care about Georgia?

[Van Lathan]

And before we started recording, you mentioned The Nolan Richardson 48 minutes or 40 minutes of hell or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

These teams all had, like, weird identities.

[Bill Simmons]

Based on the coach. Like, Night Indiana was the best version.

[Van Lathan]

But, like, it would be like there were the teams that ran this very smooth, like. Like, like incredibly elegant offenses. Then there were the, like, slam their hands on the core defensive teams. And there were the run and gun teams. There were the teams where you're like, man, like, yeah, they're definitely whoever Tar was. Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

The prep school killers from Duke.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then like the. Like The. The. The UCLA, the O'Bannon brothers with Toby Bailey and Cameron Dollar and all of these different guys. It was like a legitimate. There was a whole landscape of stars to choose from in college.

[Van Lathan]

And they were there for three or four years.

[Bill Simmons]

And UNOB Duke was kind of that. And then in the Weber timeout game, the late in the shot, there are all these beats. Hank Ather's dying was like a. Probably the biggest year.

[Van Lathan]

Mat 5 is that 90.

[Bill Simmons]

Mat 5 started. 91 kind of went through.

[Van Lathan]

So this comes after Fab 5. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I got. Well, I'll save. I have a Fab five thing for this. But we also have Friedkin directing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which was a big deal for the movie nerds. And I was like, becoming a movie nerd, but didn't really fully understand the impact of how weird that would be to have this guy who did the French Connection and the Exorcist. We just knew he was a good director. Didn't have a shitload of.

[Van Lathan]

But obviously has a pretty dim opinion of humanity. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's like we are all basically like corrupt hustlers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But love basketball had. There's this crazy backstory with him where he was this massive Celtics fan and had a chance to buy the Celtics in the end of. The end of the weight segment. You know, this whole story. There's this guy, Irv Levin, who ended up switching franchises with John Y. Brown. Freaking could have been Chisholm Irv Levin. John Y. Brown owned the Clippers. Irv Levin owned the Celtics. Irv Levin didn't want to own the Celtics anymore because he couldn't deal with Red R back. And the fans were mean to him because he didn't live in Boston. And Friedkin was this huge Celtic fan. He's like, I'll let you buy one third of the team and you can run it. And Friedkin was like a famous director. You can read there's. He tells the whole story and he's really thinking about, should I do this? And then ultimately decided not to do it. They switched franchises. That's how the Clippers end up moving to la. John y. Brown sells and we get Larry Bird.

[Van Lathan]

Did you ever meet Freaking?

[Bill Simmons]

No, but I. I had no idea until I did the research what a massive fan he was. And it's why Koozie's in this.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he was friends with Koozie. Like, he asked Koozie for advice and then, spoiler alert, Koozie wins the movie. Like, this is an all time incredible Bob Koozie, but he's also a natural actor.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he has the free throw scene. CR Is this a Nick Nolte movie, a J.T. walsh movie, or a Shaq movie for you?

[Van Lathan]

It's a Nulty movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I think the two things in my mind that I keep turning over about what ifs with this movie are what if somebody different played Pete Bell and what if Ron Shelton had directed it? I think if Shelton directs it, it probably has a lot more humor, it's more fun, and there's a little bit more warmth to it. And I think Nolte is perfectly cast because these coaches do have this kind of like irascible, never happy vibe to them. Like, you never saw Boeheim smile. You never see Tom Izzo really smile until the end of the season. Like, these guys are always screaming. They're always. And Nolte really brings that out. I don't know what it would have been like if Redford had been Pete Bell or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. In a weird way, it's almost the most realistic possible version of this.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's interesting because he's obviously doing his Bobby Knight thing, right? In which he shadow Bobby shadowed him.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you know what it is?

[Chris Ryan]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

It's Bobby Knight crossed with Jack Cates. Oh, there you go. Ah, this sucks.

[Chris Ryan]

But. But there's something.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm giving my girlfriend the high hard one, but said I'm here. Ah, Jes loser like you.

[Chris Ryan]

But there's something else that we never got to See, from Bobby Knight. Every time we saw Bobby Knight, he was either being like, you know, kind of a rascal, like very humorous, picking at people, or, you know, being a guy who was right on the edge of being too intense and then obviously crossed over that edge later on. But they do something in this movie where they show you times where Pete has to humble himself, where he has to like, contend with the fact that he doesn't have a handle on his team anymore. He has to kind of ask his ex wife for some ass a little bit and get rejected. Like they kind of knock him off the perch of all powerful college basketball coach.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that is why the character works.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus, you can just walk around. Apparently in this part of LA where the university is. Just have a walk back home to your house. There's no people anywhere. What part of LA is this? Where is this?

[Van Lathan]

It's like something that's like.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Van Lathan]

You see. But it looks more like usc, but it also looks like Louisiana.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a giant arena that has no parking lots and no parking and just houses right outside and no people.

[Chris Ryan]

The interesting thing is you probably could walk home if you're the coach of ucla. You definitely can't walk home if you're the coach of sec. Right, Right. So you definitely don't want to be walking around down there. But I always thought it was supposed to be UCLA because of the colors and all of that. But they're on sec.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, one of the things with this movie, and it was a big part of the marketing and Friedkin talking about it, and just in general, it was like, we are gonna do basketball correctly. We're gonna have real players playing real games. We did all this shit. We had Pitino coaching a team against Nick Nolte with the players. Everything was like, boom. Same thing with Bobby Knight. There's all these stories about Bobby Knight taking it too seriously. They filmed it in Indiana in front of a crowd of 6,000 people. And they're like, we are now elevating the sports movie. And it doesn't totally work. It turns out there's still some good stuff in actually just structuring sports movie scenes.

[Van Lathan]

I think basketball's the hardest sport to shoot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I just think over and over again with, you know, white men can't jump works because it's two on two. I think full court, five on five. Basketball is so difficult. It's why the angles, like, it's like when they change the angle in an actual game. You're watching like an NBA game, you're like, please just go back to the. As soon as they were like, you look at the TV angle, baseline shot of this, I'm like, no, I want.

[Bill Simmons]

To see coach's angle.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And it's like, I think that that is. Whether it would Ben Freakin or Scorsese or Coppola or PTA, like 5 on 5 hoops is just incredibly difficult to capture.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's why some of the 70s stuff. I made you a White Shadow pickup basketball scene yesterday. Some of the 70s stuff, they just didn't overthink it. They were just like, I'll let it go. Hey, wide camera, let's just watch some guys playing. And then they. As soon as they tried to get fancier, Hoosiers has some good stuff and some bad stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

The thing that I like about you is when you have an agenda, that agenda is all encompassing.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the 70s basketball footage.

[Chris Ryan]

You love White Shadow so much.

[Van Lathan]

He kind of wants to do White Shadow instead of blue Chips.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's. Now it's too dated. It's like 50 years. But now it's like Coach Carter, we had that Finding Forest or Coach Carter era of basketball where they went back to the wide shots.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I like that. You got back into the. You went from White Shadow to Coach Carter. So I'm kind of like, those are the basketball movies, like a DI thing did.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they went. They went backwards, though. And they stopped being like, we're going to be right on the court. We're going to go, here's the wide shot again. And then the Way Back, I think did a good job.

[Chris Ryan]

The Way Back is like, you know how I feel about that movie. That's a completely underrated sports movie. I'll say this.

[Bill Simmons]

It's properly rated because we're doing it this year in the rewatchable.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, right. I. I'll say this. This movie was attempting to do something that I think they. You're. I do agree with you. They overthought it because they're trying to shoot the game from the coach's perspective and put us right on the bench where you can see that the team comes out. They're playing with a lot of energy, and then the game is getting away from them. And you can you watch the coach just unable to control the fact that he just doesn't have the talent. And you're supposed to be able to see that. And it just doesn't quite work. But every time I watch this movie, too frantic, something always dawns on me. You watch so many basketball movies. Where they're playing basketball, nobody is sweating, nobody looks like they're into it. This does have the feeling because competitiveness of. The competitiveness of that. The fact that they're actually playing basketball at a high level and trying to beat each other. So when the drama comes and it looks like his team is overwhelmed, that kind of does work. But the basketball itself doesn't work that well.

[Bill Simmons]

Widescreen helped it a little more. During the square TV era, when this was rewatchables combined with how they shot it, it was really hard to follow the basketball. And then you'd watch like Teen Wolf.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And you'd be like, man, these basketball scenes are great.

[Van Lathan]

My favorite basketball scene in this one is probably the Indiana game because I find it very easy to like kind of navigate Bobby Hurley on the court. And I feel like it that that was the one where maybe it's just because I was so familiar with Bobby Hurley at the time, really missed his game.

[Bill Simmons]

I liked his, but he's like that kind of point. Part of his car accident.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that kind of point.

[Chris Ryan]

His car.

[Bill Simmons]

Car accident's kind of underrated. I think he would have been a good pro.

[Chris Ryan]

Little swaggy, confident, right. Playmaker. Steal the ball. Like, was an all time favorite college.

[Van Lathan]

He coaches Arizona State now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He just directs traffic in a way where you're kind of like, oh, you're right. Like there's a pick and he's going to come over there old school. That stuff is good. But they don't actually even flash to the scoreboard that much. I mean, Western gets their asses kicked most games of this movie. Except for towards the end, you know what I mean? Except for that very.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a lot of thoughts on.

[Chris Ryan]

One more thing about the basketball. Do you know what the best basketball in the movie is to me? The practices.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The practices, to me and the coaching in the practice and the coaches in the practice.

[Bill Simmons]

Put your leg behind when he's spinning around. I like all that stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Like all of that.

[Van Lathan]

Gets his hand right up on Ricky Rose.

[Bill Simmons]

Butt cheeks.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's like, right, right there.

[Bill Simmons]

Get out of here, Ricky.

[Chris Ryan]

Right over the front of the rim. Butch, unlock the left Here, take. Take your jersey off. Right. Go with the blue team. Like all of that stuff. The practices are the stuff to me that like actually grounded the movie and being actual college basketball and authentic, you know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

When I tried to recruit Van for the ringer and he's like, I want 30k in a gym bag and a tractor. I said, get out of here, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Take that. You don't have to wear it.

[Bill Simmons]

Then two days later, he was working for us. It was like. Like it never happened. Never understood that part of blue chips with the pay stuff. So the movie kind of shifted, especially as. As in the last 10 years. People like these guys got to get paid in that whole thing. By 2023, Esquire was writing. Shelton and Friedkin seemed to be foreshadowing the everyone sells out influencer culture of the 21st century. Interesting idea. I don't know if I 100% agree with it, but it does foreshadow something. I don't know if it was intentional because I really think they were just in the moment.

[Van Lathan]

I think they were saying the quiet part loud, which is like, these guys deserve get paid. This is a multibillion dollar business and the players deserve to get.

[Bill Simmons]

But we did this in the 70s, though, with one on one and with fast break, because those are the same premises. Like, what's. How can we cheat to win, basically, in college basketball.

[Van Lathan]

Sure. I think also, like, there's. There's an argument to be made that a lot of what Happy says is like, kind of makes sense. You know what I mean? Like where he's just like, the collectives will take care of these people. You don't know about it. Like, Happy kind of is, let's do it now.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is why the gambling stuff is in there with Happy. Because if it's not, then what Happy is actually.

[Van Lathan]

But even the gambling stuff now is like almost quaint. Tony shaving points in a victory to miss the line is like, oh, well.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, yeah, but it's still. That at least still has enough of a stench to it that it is actually affecting somebody's giving less than what they should be. Competition wise. You're right. But when Happy has the gambling stuff, only because Happy is making so much sense when he's talking to Coach Bell that he wouldn't be villainous enough.

[Bill Simmons]

Just talk about Happy.

[Chris Ryan]

I love Happy.

[Bill Simmons]

You love the pool. There's just the random women in the pool for no reason.

[Chris Ryan]

J.T. walsh does something so crazy, like, it's so swaggy. J.T. walsh goes out on his diving board as he's dressing down Coach Pete, and he's just bouncing. He's like. He's like, who are you to talk to me? Make it work. I'm bouncing on the two Playboy Playmates.

[Van Lathan]

What does he say about them when he introduces them to Pete? He's like, they're both huge fans.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought the Movie could have easily taken a he got game turn right there for Coach Bell.

[Bill Simmons]

The problem with this movie is Happy is by far the most interesting character in the movie. He has that one scene he's dressed up to play tennis.

[Van Lathan]

What do you think Happy does?

[Chris Ryan]

That's a good question. Like, you think Happy's in Hollywood in some way, is he?

[Van Lathan]

I think he probably made all his money in.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he's like a film producer.

[Van Lathan]

He's also kind of time to worry about western basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he plays. He's a tennis player too. If I ever got divorced, I'm just turning into Happy. It's just going to be like dressed to play tennis all the time, doing phone calls while bouncing on the diving board.

[Van Lathan]

Run the Harvard West Cougars.

[Bill Simmons]

Two Cougars at the the pool. And I'm just trying to boost that polar cross.

[Chris Ryan]

Didn't want no cougars. You could go. Those were.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the ones he introduced to coach. Those are Those, those were 25 year old women.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

Those were cougars. Those were in like their 40s.

[Van Lathan]

Brinkley. What are you talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

Late 30s.

[Chris Ryan]

No, Bill, no, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Which ones are we talking about?

[Van Lathan]

Women in the bar that he's like.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, you're right.

[Chris Ryan]

They definitely not cool. Yeah. Don't argue white women with me. Don't do that. But I'm saying Happy is the man. Happy is the one. Hey, is there somebody you can call to tell me whether or not if I leave school that my mom the mama lose a house and job calls him? Hey, he's the coach. You're the coach. Get him to play. His mom's got a house with a yard. I'm like, talk your shit, Happy. Get out there. Stop acting like a bitch.

[Bill Simmons]

He didn't know how to be an emotion offense.

[Chris Ryan]

No, he didn't. He needs to be in a different office.

[Bill Simmons]

What the going out there, we can.

[Chris Ryan]

Handle the ball and dish to other people.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what's really good is emotion offense.

[Van Lathan]

And watch this movie and listen to all that terminology and just be like it. You almost have PTSD from basketball practice of guys yelling that out. Like, dude, it's like 1, 4, 2, 3, 4. Yeah. Like, like boxing one. And now it's all like watching people.

[Chris Ryan]

Run a three man weave and all of that stuff. Stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

So no's having. He's coming off the resurgence when he cleaned up a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Another 48 hours down and out in Beverly Hills like he's Cape Fear, Prince of Ti, Prince of Tides. He's. He's a pretty Famous star. So they build it as a Nick Doy movie. And they made a big deal. He shadowed Bob Knight. He modeled Pete Bell after Bob Knight. So we had that. We had the Shaq and Penny stuff. And I got to say, I think Shaq's good in this movie. Shaq takes a lot of shit for his acting. I think he's like, borderline stealing scenes when he's in there. I love every time he's in there. Yeah, he's really funny.

[Chris Ryan]

Funny. He's very funny. They let Shaq kind of be Shaq in the movie. Yeah, he's a bright spot, which is good because every other athlete that acts in the movie is terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know. I thought Penny was okay in the Home six.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I didn't like it. One thing that I learned, that I not learned, one thing that sparked my brain while I'm watching this is athletes as actors has come really, really far. And it's probably because these guys are so used to being on camera. Now they're on camera.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good point. Like Anthony Edwards and Hustle the Performers.

[Chris Ryan]

It's better. And they didn't get as many reps.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

That's back in the day as they do now. But there's some rough, rough athlete acting in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's also like a really.

[Bill Simmons]

Dr. J was the nadir.

[Van Lathan]

It's a brief Pittsburgh choice for Penny and Shaq to do it. Honestly, for all of the people who participated in this movie to do it, because it's a pretty dim portrait of college basketball. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I mean, the craziest thing is they let Indiana use the uniforms and Bob Knight. I just have no idea what the NCAA was thinking with that in nitpicks.

[Chris Ryan]

If you're going to let Indiana do it, then why do we have to get fake teams everywhere else?

[Van Lathan]

Western Texas or Texas State or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like, hey, we're gonna do. We're gonna do a movie about digital media and the corruption and terrible stuff. Can we use all the Ringer studios and all your logos? Like, sure, go ahead. Do you wanna put Craig Horror back in it? Like, I just don't understand why they would even participate in this.

[Chris Ryan]

I will say Tony is a good.

[Van Lathan]

Actor, but I think he's an actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think he's an actor.

[Chris Ryan]

He is an actor. I know him a little bit. He. He is the actor, but he's also.

[Bill Simmons]

Here we go.

[Van Lathan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Van Lathan]

He dropped Jesus. I know Tony from Bl.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, My God.

[Chris Ryan]

But he's actually actual, real basketball player.

[Bill Simmons]

Anthony S.E. hall, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's. He's a real basketball player.

[Bill Simmons]

He was the only one they cast because he actually could act. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have Patino Knight, Raveling, Koozie Bird. Talk about the legend in a second. Tarkanian, some of the players. Allen Houston, George Lynch, Wex Walters, Greg Graham, Chris Mills, our guy, Rick Fox.

[Van Lathan]

Calbert Cheney in this.

[Bill Simmons]

So there's a lot of people that. It's this glimpse, and I. I could have done this for probably unanswerable questions later, but I'll do it now. I don't know where the. The Fab Five is. Like, Jalen. Jalen not being in this personally offends me.

[Van Lathan]

Have you ever talked to Jalen about this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I. I wish we could almost, like, call him and find out.

[Van Lathan]

You should make it call Jalen Rose instead of Call.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. Like. He's right there. He's as famous as any player they used, and he would have been perfect. And honestly, he could have played Tony.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like Jamie could have acted.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the story. Like, you go up to Detroit instead of going up to Chicago. Like. Yeah. You know what? When I did in doing the research for the movie, they say that Kevin Garnett is in the movie somewhere. I cannot fucking find Kevin Garnett in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

He's too young.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he would have been like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he would have been, like, years old. Maybe. He. Maybe as a high score.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Geert Hammock is in the movie, though. Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Lsu.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. So the backstory. Ron Shelton developed it in 1981 for Time Life films bounced around the whole decade. Ends up at 21st. 20th Century Fox Script goes in turnaround, and then Wet Men Can't Jump hits, and they're like, whoa. This movie. Paramount Pictures acquires it, buries it. And then Sherry Lansing, the famous Sherry Lansing, who is green light, married to.

[Van Lathan]

Freaking at the time or dating him.

[Bill Simmons]

There might have been some romantic. Something gets Friedkin because Shelton can't do it because he's writing and directing Cobb, which is an insufferably bad movie. Like, if you want to have a bad two hours, watch Cobb.

[Chris Ryan]

I have tried over and over adolescence and then watch.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Ryan]

I've tried so hard to like that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

They.

[Chris Ryan]

And every.

[Bill Simmons]

Everything's perfect about it except the fact it's unlikable and not fun at all to watch it.

[Chris Ryan]

Such, like. I've tried so hard, like a Couple of months ago. It's just. It's not a watchable movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't work. So that's why he didn't do it. Basketball scenes filmed at Frankfort High in Indiana. And Friedkin was talking about finding basketball players who could act because real actors just don't work in basketball movies. They kept changing the script and then eventually did the Pete versus Bobby Knight last game. And they could not convince Bobby Knight to basically throw the game. And he fucked. He was telling his guys what to do on defense and fucked up two different versions of the ending before they finally got the Shaq out. But they said it was like just full games. Play pickup as hard as you can. We're filming everything. And then they had a couple set plays at the end and that was it. $35 million budget made 26 million. A rare loser of. Of money for the rewatchables, but I bet it made it back in DVD and all that. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And it's still. I feel like it's still around in the culture and it still gets referred to a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it beat its box office for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Our guy Raj, what do you think?

[Chris Ryan]

He didn't with it?

[Van Lathan]

I think he liked it.

[Bill Simmons]

Three stars.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

What Friedkin brings to the story is a tone that feels completely accurate. The movie's a morality play told in the realistic, sometimes cynical terms of modern, high pressure college sports.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a question for you guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Is the 90s the best sports movie decade?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, it's my sports movie decade.

[Chris Ryan]

Blue Chips, the program, White men can't jump above the rim. Tin Cup, Rudy, Necessary Roughness, Little Big League, He Got Game. Rookie of the Year, Hoop Dreams, Jerry Maguire.

[Bill Simmons]

Any given Sunday, Varsity Blues 99.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So, like, you're looking at a. A complete. It's not just because some of these movies are like, super laudable.

[Bill Simmons]

Maguire's in there too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it probably is. It's like, it's like I mentioned Jerry Maguire.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They're definitely the most like the Sons.

[Van Lathan]

Of the Rocky area, the ones I revisit the most. I don't know if there's. With the exception of Maguire, it's not really, but like a movie like say, Rocky or Moneyball that kind of transcended out of sports movies to become like a critically acclaimed film. As much I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

There's not.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the 90s were the best because they made the most of them. They learned from all the mistakes from the other generation. But then the model kind of worked. Like, this is my friend Mike Tolan, they made. He made like, seven of these. Like, he. He made Varsity Blues, co Coach Carter, Summer catch. Like, you just kept making them over and over again because it worked every time. You'd make them for 15 million and they'd make 30 million in the box office. I think that the money kind of shifted against it eventually, but I just think they made, like, a shitload of them.

[Chris Ryan]

I also think that.

[Bill Simmons]

So I think you're right.

[Chris Ryan]

So the culture was at a point to where there were more things to litigate.

[Van Lathan]

That's true.

[Chris Ryan]

So they were just. It. The underdog story is something about sports that will always work. But when you get to the 90s now, you're talking about marketing, you're talking about agents. Like, some of these. Some of these movies are about sports culture.

[Bill Simmons]

But, you know, it changed what documentaries come at the end of the 2000s.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when. When the sports docs came in. And the content was immediately as good as a lot of these sports movies and doing the same themes and some of them. It's like, I'd rather watch the great documentary of this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd rather watch the Last Dance than a Michael Jordan.

[Van Lathan]

Or I'd rather watch YouTube highlights of this happening. Because everything was filmed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It just. It was just less access and. And I think that the territory was.

[Chris Ryan]

Just ripe, which is why I still, like. I loved air. I loved air.

[Bill Simmons]

I did, too.

[Chris Ryan]

I loved air because I'm like, huh? I want to know. Air could have been done as a documentary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But I want the dramatic version of all of that shit happening. So anyway, I just. When I. When I was doing research and I looked at all the movies, I'm like, wow. Like, this is a very, very deep decade for the sports movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I used to. When I had my old site, I would. I would always write about sports movies. And then when I got to espn, I would do reviews every time. And it got pretty dark. In the mid 2000s, they were kind of running out of ideas.

[Van Lathan]

Like, after Friday Night Lights or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

We moved into, like, this kind of gridiron gang era of these, like, specific ideas they're trying to do. And there'd be one big star. What was that movie with Josh Lucas was another one. Oh, they had one star for the poster.

[Chris Ryan]

That was Baton Rouge.

[Bill Simmons]

One star for the poster. They'd kind of cheap out on everyone else to try to make it for a certain amount of money. It's kind of the same movie you'd already seen.

[Van Lathan]

Clearly gonna be an inspirational story, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They would do that shot or this or something where it's like, oh, you know what? I just like watching dudes curse while they play sports.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take a break and then we'll do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Loom by Atlassian. It's always so frustrating driving to work, being really excited to do a podcast, and then these guys that I'm doing the pod with take shots at Bob Koozie in Boston. That's frustrating. It's also really frustrating when you start feeling stuck at work with too many unnecessary meetings. And luckily, there's a simple solution for that. Use LOOM video messaging. It can simultaneously record both your screen and yourself, share a quick update, provide feedback, train a colleague, and everything in between. Plus, add LOOM AI to your meetings. For instant written notes and recordings, try Loom [e-mail] l o o m dot com. All right, this is a fun one. What's the exact perfect age to see this movie?

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna say, like, 14, 15 when you're a college basketball junkie, but I don't know if 14 and 15 year olds are college basketball junkies anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

I went with. I went with 13.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

12 or 13. I went a little bit younger, but now we're talking about now I'm actually not sure. It might be 45. It might be a little older. Yeah. But for me, I saw it at the perfect age. Yeah, I was like 12 or 13.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have said 16 in 1994. Like, oh, Shaq.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's basically what I was. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Most rewatchable scene possibilities. People's first scene.

[Van Lathan]

Awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Comes back in two times, just yelling at them. Comes back, the dumbest team I've ever coached. It's some good Nolte. It's a good way to start a movie. Every time we get ready to play, I just want to throw up. I'm goddamn sick of watching you guys play. There's not one of you, not one.

[Chris Ryan]

Of you that's learned how to win. We got hammered the last four games and it stops right now.

[Bill Simmons]

You keep playing the way you're playing.

[Chris Ryan]

We'Re gonna get an ass beat again tonight. So depressed.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even want to talk about it.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm through fighting, you sons of bitches. You're the dumbest king I ever coached. You guys think of something.

[Van Lathan]

It's also, like, an interesting gambit. Nolte's such a vulnerable actor. He really doesn't need big glory moments and in fact, seems to hunt the opposite. You think about all of his characters. Like. Like Kate's character in. In Princess, Prince of Tides. This. He's just a punching bag man. And when he comes on screen, you're like, oh, this is going to be cool. He's going to, like, give them a motivational speech. It's an anti motivational speech. And then, like, just the way that you contrast him with Pitino.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Pete's hunched over Pitino standing tall and is like, right. You're a great official. That's why you're the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

It's like a smooth.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I love you. I love you.

[Van Lathan]

And that was like peak Pitino.

[Bill Simmons]

Then y. Pete's wearing every loss. Next scene, Koozie shooting free throws. Wow.

[Van Lathan]

You're the only person in America who makes this. Three watchables.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. Well, let me give you some backstory. Watched an interview with Bob Koozie yesterday. He said Nolte suggested this because Nolte was kind of a jock. And no's idea was you. We'll do the scene. You shoot a free throw. When you miss, I'll get the ball, then I'll shoot. We'll go back and forth. Because he kind of wanted to show off his free throw shooting. And Koozie said he made 21 in a row and they filmed it. So in the movie, he makes 10 straight, including a lefty.

[Van Lathan]

And no, he's like, don't you ever miss?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And that. Which was ad lib. Cause Nick Dalty was getting pissed because he thought, when am I gonna get to shoot my free throws? But the whole scene's good too, because he's like, you got horses. What you need is thoroughbreds. Because he could barely say thoroughbreds because he had the French accent. But then we get the two reasons I'm incapable of cheating.

[Van Lathan]

One is French accent.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Bob Cousy is French. He's a French immigrant. That's why he had that weird. He couldn't say Elizabeth.

[Van Lathan]

I thought that was always just like a Boston accent.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's like this French, then the Boston that. That's why there were, like, certain.

[Chris Ryan]

When did he come to America?

[Bill Simmons]

His parents were like, French immigrants.

[Chris Ryan]

But, like, when did he come to America?

[Bill Simmons]

He probably born there or came earlier. I can't remember. But yeah, he was a French accent.

[Van Lathan]

How about that?

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know that. You can learn more about that watching the Celtics documentary.

[Van Lathan]

His character, I. You don't even have to really think about it as Bob Koozie.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he's allegedly named Vic, but that.

[Van Lathan]

Whole character, like, this kindly figurehead who's kind of like, what? I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean? But it's like, we're a good program, but it's like, your guys are corrupt.

[Bill Simmons]

He's doing the Tom Hagen. Yeah. It's like, ah, we went to the matches. I have no idea what's happening.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that you feel the worst for him. You feel the worst for him when Pete Bell goes off on his thing and they go back to Koozie and he's just putting his hands on. Because the ad's got to go too. Right. They're going to get rid of everybody. And he's just.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, so you guys are telling me Bob Koozie hitting 10 straight free throws during a scene? Yeah. Well, I can't beat anybody with banners. I need players. I need horses.

[Chris Ryan]

You got horses?

[Bill Simmons]

What you need are thoroughbreds. Well, everybody in the country's buying these kids out of high school, giving them cars, money under the table, God knows what. Don't you ever miss?

[Chris Ryan]

That's the idea of the game.

[Bill Simmons]

Put the ball in the hole isn't rewatchable for you? The guy was like 70.

[Van Lathan]

I'm sure he was shooting Legend said.

[Bill Simmons]

The crew was going nuts after. What Crew was going nuts.

[Chris Ryan]

I wish JJ Redick was here right now.

[Bill Simmons]

The crew was going nuts.

[Van Lathan]

You should start saying that about yourself. Like when I was interviewing, interviewing McShay. Oh, my God, Ceruti was going nuts. Everybody was applauding me.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Koozie tells the story that the day before they filmed the scene with Shaq and he missed like 14 of 15 free throws.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but Koozie can't fucking.

[Chris Ryan]

Can't do like. So what are you talking.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, you saw what he could do. He's the best basketball player of the first 15 years of the league. How dare you go hang out with JJ Redick. Multiple mvp, eight time champ.

[Van Lathan]

They applauded him. The Crew, He's a French American.

[Chris Ryan]

Bob Koozie showed up.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaquille O'Neal, he literally says that in the interview. He said the crew reacted because Shaq was so bad the day before.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

It's on YouTube. We can run a social video right now and Bob Koozie will say this in a YouTube clip. Next scene. So my favorite part of this movie is when he goes recruiting.

[Van Lathan]

It's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the best 15 minute stretch by far. I love seeing Butch McCray in Chicago. I love the gimmick of the other coaches there at every stop. He's getting, like, the red. The red carpet. Some we get to see real Penny Hardaway highlights him just kicking ass in some Chicago gym.

[Chris Ryan]

Some guys really willing to take some smaller roles just to be in the movie. Three scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Robert Wolf is in one scene.

[Van Lathan]

Alfre Woodard.

[Chris Ryan]

Alfre Woodard's one scene.

[Van Lathan]

Is this. Is this the origin story of Arlis?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, man, I haven't thought about that show in a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought Gossett was great.

[Chris Ryan]

Fantastic. One scene, uncredited.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like, after toy Soldiers. Like, it wasn't. Like, he wasn't red hot.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey. He had already won an Academy Award.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. No, I'm saying toy soldiers. I got a little worried about Lou.

[Van Lathan]

It's kind of awesome, too, if, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, we did Unrewatchables. I love that movie.

[Van Lathan]

It helps to know a little bit about college and recruiting at that time period or whatever. But, like, he comes out of that office and you're like, I know this guy is. He's the dude who runs this Catholic school. He always has a fucking kid. Yeah. But he does look out for their best interests. And he knows all these guys. And for whatever reason, Pete and him are good.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, when he comes out and he, like, he positions this as essentially a slave auction, Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You can tell that he's having fun with it, but he has a cynical enough opinion of it to keep these guys in line. And he can read and write that whole thing. It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Chris Ryan]

It's perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

Alfre Woodard sucking a cancer stick at one point there. Cr.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe has the line of the movie when. When Pete's like, what's he gonna become? And she's like, a millionaire.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She wants a job in house. Then we go see the legend in Indiana. Why are you grunting?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm grunting because we're about to. He knows. He knows where this is going. He knows where he's going. You can't help himself. He's grunting because he's the same feeling I just had. Just get it off your chest. Do it.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, only movie he's been in.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

You know where they filmed it, though?

[Van Lathan]

In French Lick with his house.

[Chris Ryan]

French Lick. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Nice house.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what else was filmed? That house. What? The greatest commercial of the 80s commercial.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the same drive Pete drives down the same driveway that Magic drives down in the limo for the Converse commercial was the day that they became friends.

[Chris Ryan]

They became boys.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought, Larry's not terrible as an actor.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think their eyelines are Matched up. So at one point, like, Pete's, like, looking over here and talking to Larry Bird, and Larry Bird's like, hey, coach.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, hey, coach. How are you?

[Chris Ryan]

Larry has enough aura, like the kids say, aura, to just kind of Larry Bird his way through any scene. So when you see Larry Bird and Larry Bird is, like, keeping it, like, 100% real with him. Just, you know, tell me what you want. You want.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Chris Ryan]

It works.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think Larry Bird in 94 was still just going out into the hot Indiana sun and getting. Getting shots up, or was he.

[Bill Simmons]

I had something for this later, but the. The short answer is no. He did, like, two back surgeries. There's no way. He's like, I'm just gonna go out, shoot some pickup I have, like, get my own rebound. Three surgery, repaired herniated discs. He's gonna go shoot some.

[Van Lathan]

Get some shots, get my own free throw, misses.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we go see Neon and Algiers. Give us the Algiers scouting report. Well, because it seems hard to get.

[Chris Ryan]

There was West Bank, New Orleans. It's not as hard as they made it seem.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Like, it seems like they're going to, like, Cuba Jungle Cruise.

[Chris Ryan]

They made it seem. But we laughed at that because, you know, in. In Louisiana, when people go to Louisiana to movie, they always make it seem like you got to ask an alligator directions.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

When you're getting around the state.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like that.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's not. It's West Bank, New Orleans. So you do have to, like. I don't know that you have to go through the Swamp. Yeah. To get. To get there. There are places like that, but they're further south in the state. I.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, don't spoil this for me. I like this movie gimmick. It's like the deepest recesses of America. You need it. You only have. Only one guy can get you there with Silk.

[Chris Ryan]

And you got to get through that, and you got to climb the hill. Get. Can I ask one question about the recruiting visit with Bell? With Ricky Bell or. No, no.

[Van Lathan]

Ricky Rowe. I have a lot of Ricky Rowe thoughts.

[Chris Ryan]

Was that race by his father, the.

[Bill Simmons]

First Baptist Church, Second Baptist Church.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, did I detect some racialisms?

[Bill Simmons]

Second Baptist Church, more black. Was the inference Southern Baptist?

[Chris Ryan]

Because I was like. I always thought that he was just. But then I watch it now with my race eyes, and I was like.

[Bill Simmons]

And I was like, it's a good video gimmick.

[Chris Ryan]

I can find it. Like, race eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, infrared race eyes.

[Van Lathan]

Van watches Bob Cousy make free throws with race eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

They're trying to make Shaq look bad with this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exactly. So, like, what was he. Was he being racist?

[Van Lathan]

I think that there were some undertones I don't really know a lot about.

[Bill Simmons]

I say Indiana has like the greatest history with this.

[Chris Ryan]

The most cake.

[Van Lathan]

Jim Beaver really good though. Is Ricky Rose Dad.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think there was a whiff of.

[Chris Ryan]

Something I with Ricky Road the most though.

[Bill Simmons]

I like this game.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky Rowe was cool. Just wanted girls and money.

[Van Lathan]

Man Ricky Rowley lost him to an acl. Think about what modern medicine could have done for Ricky.

[Bill Simmons]

She's on the tractor right now wondering what happened.

[Chris Ryan]

Wonder what happened.

[Van Lathan]

His whole career. Bead's still out there getting 35 million.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky Rose probably in the proud boys right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Niana now Jeers got pardoned.

[Van Lathan]

It was really easy to spot him. He was 6, 6.

[Bill Simmons]

Ricky Rose now the Secretary of Defense.

[Van Lathan]

He was the one shooting baskets on Pelosi's trash can.

[Bill Simmons]

He's totally rise there, but coached 520. You get 400 for signing your name.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that was all. All. It's all lark for him.

[Bill Simmons]

I like all the shack scenes. I like when he brings. The next one was when he brings shaq to Mary McDonald's kindergarten class or first grade class.

[Chris Ryan]

That's fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you play with the kids?

[Chris Ryan]

How gigantic he is, how childlike he is. And the Shaq basketball scene in Algiers is just fantastic. He's playing in a basketball shack.

[Van Lathan]

In a barn. In a barn.

[Chris Ryan]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

But somehow it's like seven NBA players there. There's a lot of questions about.

[Van Lathan]

They're playing like five on five, half court and just exclusively throwing him alley oops.

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then at one point, he tries to block a shot and then gets the ball and then dunks it. It's like, what are the rules here? We have no takeout at all.

[Van Lathan]

Al.

[Bill Simmons]

So how far is Algiers from New Orleans? Al gave us enough.

[Chris Ryan]

Al is New Orleans.

[Van Lathan]

It's like. It's like Brockton, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

Is a neighborhood.

[Bill Simmons]

So the big lesson is it's not nearly as hard to get there.

[Chris Ryan]

They manage on the west bank of New Orleans. You take a ferry across the river to get there.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

My favorite thing about the recruiting trip for Neon is that for about 40 years, if you had a scene in New Orleans, you could either use Susie Q or Baby Please Don't Go. And those are the only two songs you were allowed to play. If anybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Such a good point.

[Van Lathan]

It's an awesome song.

[Bill Simmons]

What other songs could have been used?

[Van Lathan]

House of the Rising Sun.

[Chris Ryan]

House of the Rising sun is a good one, but at this point they would have dropped like bling bling or some classic cash money, some juvenile or some shit like that. To let you know, you.

[Bill Simmons]

I was gonna do this later, but the. The lack of hip hop in this movie when it came out, you don't.

[Van Lathan]

Think Billy Freekin was rocking some missed.

[Bill Simmons]

Opportunities later, but it's.

[Chris Ryan]

There's not a lot of hip hop. And white men can't jump, though.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying, by 94, we had some options. We had options in 94, we had options. Next scene, JT Walsh lays it out for people. You're a better coach when you're pissed off. My money is untraceable. Cr just. You want to cook on this. I know you love Happy.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I just love. I love his, like, brazenness in this. And I love how like they position this character. He's not doing anything. He's like, everybody is a cheater. I'm just gonna cheat better than everybody else when he brings those girls up to him and he's like two big Dolphins fans. But I have like a. I. I just feel like Happy essentially invents collect nil collectives, right? Like, he's like a precursor for that. And he's just like friends of the program.

[Bill Simmons]

We owe them this money.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

These athletes generate millions of dollars for the university.

[Chris Ryan]

What do they get? Nothing. What do you get? You get a multi year contract. You get a six figure shoe deal.

[Bill Simmons]

So your team can be a walking billboard.

[Chris Ryan]

And that is all legal.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you get another six figures.

[Chris Ryan]

For that lousy TV show.

[Bill Simmons]

Get out of my face. We owe them this money.

[Chris Ryan]

We owe it to them. We owe them this money.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we just give him the Ruffalo Hannah Rubenak Partridge overacting word right now. And did we throw him into the category?

[Van Lathan]

It's up there.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I don't understand. I mean, it's so good. He's just going for it, but it is an overacting, extravagant person.

[Van Lathan]

Competing with him is the assistant coach who's just like, Freddy. No, not Freddie. The guy who's like, tony's my guy. Oh, that is my guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Shout out, Freddie. I. There's my favorite J.T. walsh scene of all time is in Outbreak. That's my favorite one where he's talking to the people. He's only in it for the one time. He was like, was anyone? There was no other way. You're with the president. But this is, to me the most J.T. walsh of J.T. walshiness that exists.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to go breakdown?

[Chris Ryan]

Breakdown is.

[Bill Simmons]

To me, it's like a. Like a stripped down JT Strip down JT Walsh.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the most JT Walshy that JT Gets. Love, JT Walsh.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think in any of the scenes he should address, like, Lieutenant Marketson?

[Van Lathan]

I had that for later.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, great. We owe them this money. We owe it to them. I like the montage when everyone gets paid off.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch's mom gets a job in a house, corner office. Ricky gets a tractor. Ricky gets a gym bag with money. Neon gets a Lexus, but makes the point that he didn't ask for it.

[Chris Ryan]

Didn't ask for it.

[Bill Simmons]

We're playing some cool music.

[Chris Ryan]

Neon's the only pure soul in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Fun one. Next one. Butch is homesick. We talked about that earlier.

[Van Lathan]

I like that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Happy telling Pete, I own you. Yeah, I bought one of your boys, Coach. I own you, Pete. You're mine. This is a minute after he says, I didn't break any rules. You did. And then he's like, by the way, I own you. I shave points. Pretty sure you.

[Van Lathan]

So does Happy shave points, or is he just aware that Tony did shave?

[Bill Simmons]

He said he bought one of his boys.

[Van Lathan]

So Happy's just, like, getting a little dirty there.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's like, you're a booster, but he's also shaving points.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Happy's worst booster ever.

[Van Lathan]

You know what? For Happy, the action is the juice. He needs a little taste of everything.

[Bill Simmons]

So we go right into the point shaving game, which is my favorite part of the movie. Western U versus State, 1991.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What a clean program here, man. We worked hard to keep this program clean. Guarantee you didn't cover the spread then. Night. There must have been heavy action in Vegas.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody got rich. It's the worst case of ball handling.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen in the two years I've been here.

[Bill Simmons]

Look, he was a freshman, Freddy.

[Chris Ryan]

He's making freshman mistakes. Had a bad leg, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't forget that.

[Chris Ryan]

All night. All night. Mistakes all night.

[Bill Simmons]

No signs at all that this game might have been shaved. As we see Tony just throw the ball to the other team over and over again and look at the clock to see how the time is going. I don't know how they.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think this is a better point shaving scene or the one in the Gambler?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's gamblers.

[Van Lathan]

The Gamblers.

[Bill Simmons]

Gamblers a little more.

[Van Lathan]

So cool how, like, they use video footage to, like, to start to, like, look at how you Let.

[Bill Simmons]

I like seeing the video cassettes, too.

[Chris Ryan]

So this is the best scene in the movie. I know this is the most rewatchable scene in the movie, but this is the best scene in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

You hate Freddie.

[Chris Ryan]

I hate.

[Van Lathan]

Freddie's such a narc.

[Bill Simmons]

Freddie wasn't there. He's just being.

[Van Lathan]

I'm in Oklahoma.

[Bill Simmons]

We did things.

[Chris Ryan]

And the entire time, Freddy have. He doesn't have any skin in the game here because he didn't recruit Tony. He's not hanging out with Tony.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at this kid. He's just throwing it to the team.

[Chris Ryan]

Worst ball play. I bet the bet. The people in Vegas went crazy that night, and he's pissing this fucking guy off. They've just spent all of this time praising Tony, and it just builds and builds and builds and builds and builds until it explodes. That's the best scene in the movie. To me.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony was my guy. All right? My guy.

[Chris Ryan]

My guy.

[Van Lathan]

It's also funny now because when you watch, like, Mind the Game, and they're like, oh, yeah, that was the third quarter of a February game against Toronto. And I ran the back screen, like, the assistant coaches are like, I think I remember this game. It's like, it happened last year and you won. Were you writing a novel?

[Bill Simmons]

What do you.

[Van Lathan]

Why don't you remember this?

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good kid, man. He's a good kid.

[Van Lathan]

He is a good kid. He plays acoustic guitar, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. Then Nick goes to go see him, people, and we get the Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award for best needle drop. All of a sudden, Hendrix and all on the Watchtower. It's the one time the movie gets. Gets supercharged by a song. And all those.

[Chris Ryan]

Those songs are so college.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's also cool because, like, that's the time when you realize, like, it feels more like a campus because he goes from the gym to the guy's housing over there, and it's like, oh, yeah, you could just run across your 15.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you feel about Pete's performance in this scene? Son, you took the purest thing in your life. You corrupted it. For what?

[Van Lathan]

Like, he's talking about himself. I think that that's the whole way we're talking about it.

[Bill Simmons]

But then Tony stays on the team.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He can't get rid of Tony. Tony's gonna go fucking tell everyone. I wish you would keep me off the team.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's a more interesting scene.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you mean? There was more interesting scene if, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony going, am I off the team? And Pete's like, you see the wheels.

[Van Lathan]

He's more guilty than Tony.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but I. I want to see that in the scene. Like, Tony actually has leverage over Pete.

[Chris Ryan]

Because I think the year before Pete would have kicked Tony off the team. But I think that Pete.

[Van Lathan]

Too deep.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's frustrated that he kind of has to shut up and swallow this.

[Bill Simmons]

The big basketball scene I'm throwing in. I enjoy Bobby Knight yelling at the refs. I agree with your Bobby Hurley point. The last play is so terrible and out of. Yeah, it's out of just what we're watching.

[Van Lathan]

Has there ever been a game winning alley oop like that? I know, like the NC State thing happened.

[Bill Simmons]

But like, I. I watched this scene more for the nitpicks. And I can't believe the music sound choices with this. The music in the sound of this scene. It's such a fucking fuck up the crowd sound bad. I don't know what the. There's like this weird droning synthesizer scene. And I went back and I looked at all my favorite 1994, like hip hop rap songs. If you just put a holler if you hear me in here for four minutes. This scene's amazing. And instead it's like he's just got this weird droning synthesizer.

[Van Lathan]

Or maybe the Randy Newman the Natural score.

[Bill Simmons]

Or sure Shot by the Beasties was the other one. I was thinking, like, you need, like, this is fun. We're watching people play basketball. I need to like be tapping my leg as I'm watching it.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that they're going for high drama, though.

[Bill Simmons]

And so I disagree with the choice.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I mean, but you know, like, above.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rim was like, we know what we are. We're going to have a really fun basketball scene here. And there's going to be good music.

[Chris Ryan]

But that was street ball. And that's like, supposed to have that raw energy or whatever. This is supposed to be like a. More of a symphony of basketball. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just didn't agree with it. And then Pete's final press conference will be the last scene. I'm gonna go, Ed does the SVP cr.

[Van Lathan]

He invented it. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask you. Coach, what is up with Neon's new Lexus?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He's like, no, it's not a car. This is a fine automobile, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, hell of a deal.

[Van Lathan]

No, it's a nuclear surfboard.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys asked me to win and I gave that to you. It's about money. It's the goddamn Money happy does a great meltdown. I've become what I despise. I've become what I despise. I cheated my profession. Cheated myself. I cheated basketball. There's two words I didn't think had ever come out of my mouth. I didn't think I'd ever be able to say, I quit. I cheated my profession. I cheated myself. I cheated basketball. I quit.

[Van Lathan]

This is kind of the basketball version of the. Of the now imagine she's white scene. It's like, where he gets, like, all the way to the end. He's like, I quit.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got? For most rewatchable?

[Van Lathan]

The press conference.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, the press conference is the most rewatchable. But the Tony scene is the one that I'm always so gleeful to watch whenever I see the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the point shaving scene. Yeah. I love the point shaming scene. And Bob cousy and intense. Straight free throws. Fucking, man.

[Van Lathan]

Also cool. The way they shoot the point shaving is. I think Nolte's in the back and they don't really. It's not even him in focus. It's the two coaches up front, then Freddie talking shit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's just Freddie makes that scene. Freddie just, like, grading on the other coaches.

[Van Lathan]

Freddie's just like, if I was here, I would have noticed this, by the way, the first time.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at that. Throwing by the other team. What's he doing? What's the most 1994 thing about this movie?

[Van Lathan]

I have a good one for this.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Van Lathan]

It's the sportscaster guy who's like, it's time to tell Pete Bell to take a hike. Like, early jungle room.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You know, like early seats.

[Van Lathan]

That guy's like. He's probably the actual sports, like, broadcaster for the local news. And they're like, you can have 22 minutes after the college games to do, like, your.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, Rob Fukazaki.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's like, okay, I love Rob.

[Van Lathan]

But it's early takesmanship. He's. He's working on it.

[Chris Ryan]

And he also ruffles feathers when he interviews Pete Bell on the court.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, the Ruffle feathers. Coach, good luck in the second half.

[Bill Simmons]

Right now, that guy's out and around the horn saying goodbye to everybody. Young Shaq and young Penny. I put.

[Chris Ryan]

For 1994, Skinny Shack is definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the most 94 thing I. I want to shout out VHS tapes and crappy TVs for coaching staffs. Just how, like, digitally now he'd be like, let's find that game, Bubba. Press it up. It would be a plasma.

[Van Lathan]

I was like, when Pete goes over to Jenny's house the first time after they lose to Pitino, and he pours himself a glass of the good stuff and immediately goes to game tape. I was like, this is Bill. This is what Bill would love to do every night is go home, pour a glass of the good stuff and watch a little bit of I can't.

[Bill Simmons]

Believe you got bumped out by my around the horn show joke.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's great.

[Bill Simmons]

You got bummed out first. I'm just saying realize you're a big around the horror guy.

[Chris Ryan]

I haven't watched it in years.

[Bill Simmons]

Two points for you.

[Chris Ryan]

Mute.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage?

[Van Lathan]

The best I got Tony flunking tv. Really like that. I always loved the classes that they would come up for. For. For college hoops. And Jerry Tarkanian saying Butch McCrae couldn't make it at his school academically.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. You know what's aged the best? It's weird. So this movie is supposed to be at ucla, right? It's their colors.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, it's technically.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, technically ucla.

[Van Lathan]

It's gesturing towards it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. It's actually UCLA that broke College sports O'Bannon.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the O'Bannon. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Ed O'Bannon sued. And that lawsuit, you know, made it all the way up to the Supreme Court and then ushered in the nil area.

[Van Lathan]

Was Tyus edney on the O'Bannon teams or is that later?

[Bill Simmons]

I was enjoyed Ty Sydney, he got hurt. I have a one what stage the best off of that. What's age the best.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

When sports movies had to use Western assist there. Well, when they had to use like Western University, Big State. They had to use these fake college names. There's two Western universities because the other one is in one on one with Robbie Benson. Oh, yeah, same thing. And I think they might even have the same color.

[Van Lathan]

So what is Western Texas? Is Patino's team? No, he's Texas. What does he coach?

[Chris Ryan]

It was like. No, it was like Texas Western or Western Texas?

[Bill Simmons]

Texas Western, I think I used to be a real.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, obviously.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like some of the music in this movie with the. Yeah, yeah, it's good. The Ricky Rose outdoor hoop. I wanted to shout. Out went the thing underneath it that rolls back. Just nice little touch. The phrase friends of the program. That's become a big podcast phrase all over the place, I think. I don't know if it started with this movie, but I noticed that I like whether it bends the rules or not doesn't bother me nothing because it ain't my rules. Thought was a good quote using brooms as fake shotbachers. Van Loved it always, I thought. I just thought a lot of the touches with the coach and the players was really high level. I really like that part.

[Van Lathan]

It's also like, it feels very real when, I mean, obviously, because they were actually playing games that they were just filming. But Patino and night coaching.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Felt very real. Like, it felt like they were giving, like, actual instruction.

[Chris Ryan]

And the coaching stuff in the movie is actually. They didn't really lean into it that much, but the coaching stuff is actually really good because they were coaching against each other and it was like, don't guard this guy, don't guard that guy. And then you hear the other guy trying to adjust off of that. It was like a little deeper look into, like, the scheme and strategy of the game.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was good basketball nerd kind of stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Even down to, like, when Nolte's. When Pete's like, I'll go into the Indiana locker room and give Bob Knight our game plan because it doesn't matter.

[Bill Simmons]

I was like, yeah. Rick Patino in the closing credits of this movie is Richard Patino. I just wanted to shout that out.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think he was thinking, maybe I'll move Richard? Honestly, like, kind of awesome in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I have him and Larry Bird and Bob Koozie all being awesome in a sports movie as a wood stage. The best. There's a locker room sign in the people locker room that says, what you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here when you live here. That I just want to flag for later for the memorable thing. Here's my number one, though. I almost feel like this should be a new category because we had this last week with Nicole Kidman asking if she should study neurosurgery. Jerry's like, nicole, we're good. Just show up and get your scenes on time. And don't wear heels because you're already taller at the time. This research. Nick nolte wrote a 200 page novel about Pete Bell to tap into his character's psyche.

[Van Lathan]

It's all right, man.

[Bill Simmons]

And gave it to Friedkin. And Friedkin's like, yeah, it was okay.

[Van Lathan]

You gotta get the green light before you write the 200 page novel.

[Bill Simmons]

So is this a new rewatchables award? Maybe it's conditional. The Nick Nolte's 200 page people novel award for most ridiculous commitment to a movie. Yeah, like, that's Insane.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He wrote a 200 page novel about people.

[Van Lathan]

Can we get it though? Would you do that on ringer books?

[Bill Simmons]

I imagine it's not good.

[Chris Ryan]

It might be awesome. Freaking just might have had too much on his plate.

[Bill Simmons]

What's better? That or Nicole Kidman wanting to take.

[Van Lathan]

Some neurosurgery classes for things response to Nicole Kidman. Her being like, I really want to get into like.

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe that's the category. Craig, what should that category be? Nick Dolti or Nicole Kidman?

[Producer Craig]

Why can't we do both? It's like overacting. Let's just start compiling.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'm going to mark that one down. Would you have a great shot, Gordo?

[Van Lathan]

Cr Just the push in shot when Pete's giving his confession at the press press conference and it kind of goes over all of the audience.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the, the neon basketball scene in Algiers is just like recesses, deep recesses of black America where they play aggressive life or death basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

Watch out for those alligators. Get eaten.

[Chris Ryan]

Just go into this game specific time because Silk and Pete get there just as they're playing. Yeah, they know what time they got to get there. What time the Lions are out.

[Bill Simmons]

Dennis Benihana word for scene student location is either there. But I really like Butch's Gym in Chicago.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought that's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Those gyms with the. Where you could run laps around the top. They had a few of those in Boston. They have some in la.

[Van Lathan]

They have like ports where they have dead spots. Yeah. You can't, can't shoot from the left elbow. That one, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. To your point that basketball actually looks good because they're shooting it like they're watching it from above.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that's the best basketball scene in the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

And you can watch Butch get busy and you can see and man, I gotta say something, something else about this movie that really ages well to me. Just. It's just like how fucking awesome these guys were, man, in their youth just watching.

[Bill Simmons]

Great. What stage the best everything that any surgery.

[Chris Ryan]

Penny.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, like a young thought the same thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Ridiculously dynamic. Penny Hardaway, who was that far above the rim who could handle the ball like that, who was that smooth. I mean people don't remember him now.

[Bill Simmons]

But man, we remember him. I, I honestly feel like he was a one on one. I haven't seen a, a tall point guard like that who could really play the game who was so athletic. Yeah, yeah. He was like basically a 68 shooting guard who was a point guard. Yeah. I don't even Know who that is?

[Chris Ryan]

And unselfish.

[Van Lathan]

Was Penny the first Prop 48. Wasn't there a big. Didn't he have like a big Sports Illustrated cover about. It was like Prop 48 and it was like getting in trouble. Memphis.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I can't remember. There was definitely an SI cover with Penny in when he was at Memphis.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean he was first team on NBA in 95. He was like 21 years old. This was somebody that. It's basically like whatever John Moran is three years ago. Yeah. Or Edwards last year. That's.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I don't want.

[Bill Simmons]

They made the finals in 95.

[Van Lathan]

I don't want to jump on Prestige. Sequel. Prequel. But sequel with Penny coaching. Because he's coaching Memphis now.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Butch McCray.

[Van Lathan]

Butch coaching.

[Chris Ryan]

Now you. We have. We are of the same brain that's in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not bad.

[Van Lathan]

Butch's Boys.

[Bill Simmons]

You know the Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name, which is turning into my favorite category. Can I just make a case for Butch McCray?

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch McCray. Just a great name. Could be really anything. Could be like the bad guy at American Gangster. Could be the lead cop in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Could be like a musician. I. I don't. There's just a lot to play with.

[Chris Ryan]

What year was this movie written?

[Bill Simmons]

94.

[Van Lathan]

It was written in the 80s.

[Chris Ryan]

That character was white.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch McCray.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

And they. And when the movie, almost certainly when the movie got made or like whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

They need to urban it up a little.

[Chris Ryan]

They urbaned it up. They wanted. They got. Want to bring Penny into it. Then they added the scene with Louis Gossett Jr. Addressing the fact that his name is so white sounding. That character was white in general.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch. Great name.

[Chris Ryan]

Butch.

[Bill Simmons]

Great sports name over the years. And then Ricky Rowe I think is solid too. But yeah. Neon Budeau is. Is the classic. Let's take one more prank. Then we'll come back with CR's Flex. All right, CR, what do you got?

[Van Lathan]

I'll go Vincent Chase here. And I'm just going to say despite the two natties, are we sure people was a good coach as a recruiter? What is the shit with the. The lamp and the chair and the grandma and in Butch's room, like does anybody get sold by that? Like, oh wow, what an offensive Mastermind.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Maneuvered two toddlers and an 80 year old woman with a cigarette. So he's drawn up that it's pretty obvious Ricky is gonna want the bag. He tells him in the first place. And then he asks so Indignified by it. Like, he's just so furious about it. And then finally, like, it seems like his big wrinkle as a coach. Once the team is put together, his gameplay plan is to throw two guys at Calvert Chaney.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And it's just like, all right, well, maybe, maybe your time had passed as a, as a basketball scout also.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe Penny Hardaway should have been in the one four.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. If you adjust the four for that.

[Chris Ryan]

Fucking guy, Justin Talent, he's. He's unhappy he's out here. His mom wants to keep the house and job. Maybe change your off.

[Van Lathan]

This is why coach Bud is in shambles right now. He's trying to run this corner. You know, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Dude, if you watch Penny Hardaway at that age for five minutes, you'd be like, I'll run whatever fucking offense you want, dude. What do you want to do, bro?

[Van Lathan]

The offense is you throw alley oops to Neon. How about that?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, how about we'll set you some picks and just go to the basketball.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a feeling that P. Bill got a little tibs in him that.

[Bill Simmons]

He was telling Mikhail Bridges to stand in the corner.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Just got a little My way or the highway. You playing 90 minutes a game type situation.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. But the thing is, is that Pitino calls him out in the first game where he's just like, these guys aren't. Aren't in good shape.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they're not.

[Van Lathan]

So it's like, if you're not in good shape and you don't like to like have sophisticated offense, what are you doing?

[Bill Simmons]

They way they had it, they made it seem like he had the same credentials as Bobby Knight did. Like he'd won multiple national championships.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is another reason why I. I have this later in nitpicks. We can get to it then. But if you've got two national championships, you having one losing season is not going to make.

[Van Lathan]

I think he's had a couple that were like, not good though. I think the whole Tony era has not been that good. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

But like, it's college.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony was shaving points college.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. So like you watch Indiana go up and down for like a decade. If Bobby Knights brought you two national championships, it's. I'm just saying, like, normally that guy's job is not going to really be in that much Jeopardy.

[Bill Simmons]

2025 blue chips. Tony's just betting the under on his player. Props. I was going to make that joke, but I wasn't sure if it was appropriate for rebounds. The Butcher's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. It's clearly the point shaving subplot. And the coaches having no idea.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When we watch the video and the guy has 25 turnovers. And then there's been rumors about it for the three years since, like, they're all blindsided.

[Van Lathan]

You think the Raptors staff had that meeting about Dante? Not John Tate, my guy. Dante's not in discords. Talking about his own unders.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Happy being a huge booster in support of the program, but then also buying one of the kids for a point shaving thing. It's just, just. It's a bridge too far. What's age the worst in the opening credits, it says Penny Hardway, but there's quotation marks for the penny. Yeah, I just don't like it.

[Chris Ryan]

We didn't know them to your point. We didn't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Just go an Penny Hardway then.

[Van Lathan]

Or if you're going to do that, do it for everybody. Have Richard Patino.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I didn't like that. I mean, I. I'll go and then you guys can take some. Nobody would know who Neon was. This is an era where we actually had a college top 100. Infrastructure was into place. Really. Like the Fab 5 is like from that moment on we. Dad the camps. This is when they're making.

[Chris Ryan]

They give you so much exposition as to why you're not supposed to know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, because he was in the military.

[Chris Ryan]

Because he. Remember he grew late. He went to a juco.

[Bill Simmons]

They said he was in Desert Storm. Is Neon like 25?

[Chris Ryan]

He's got to be at least 26 years old. @ least he's got to be for everything that they said. Because he went to a junior college and then he went to the army and he's got to be at least 26 years old at least.

[Van Lathan]

It seems like he's pretty well versed in the Green Knight. It's like that's culturally biased.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then off of that, like, wouldn't Sports Illustrated be crawling around this team? Like, what happened here? He got Butch McCray. He's got some 26.

[Van Lathan]

Literally. What happened with Michigan where it's just like, how did these guys all decide to go to.

[Chris Ryan]

I would think at the same time.

[Bill Simmons]

College basketball is huge. Back then. Neon coming out of nowhere as a 25 year old. Like, I just feel like that would have been amazing.

[Van Lathan]

There was nothing more exciting than like a cool freshman class going to a school at the same time. Like, I think people would have been like, awesome. Pete got his together.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for what stage Worst.

[Van Lathan]

I think starting your press conference referencing 900 million Chinamen, probably. Probably not the best move.

[Bill Simmons]

That was. They were. They were. Some coach did that. Yeah, that. That was based on something.

[Chris Ryan]

I have that too. But you know what? Age. The worst about that to me is the Chinese not caring about basketball.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Oh, that's a great point.

[Bill Simmons]

You took off your race size, put.

[Van Lathan]

The hoop size back on.

[Chris Ryan]

The Chinese not caring about basketball age super poorly. When you. When he's trying to make that point.

[Van Lathan]

Neon's joke to Jenny and. And Pete when he's like, I see why you left the. I think that probably would have landed off.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they would have cut that one. I loved it, though. I thought it was so funny.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, what? Like, what is he talking to. How is he talking to her like that?

[Van Lathan]

And finally, Nick. No getting the John Belushi white guy Dancing in Baptist church award for dancing in.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good word. Oh, add that to the list. Anything bad?

[Chris Ryan]

That was my main. Was. Was the. The Chinese, like, not caring about basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just my. My other biggest ones. Butch. Not being able to run the motion offense is just absurd. Mary McDonald. We didn't talk about her. She's coming off Dances With Wolves. Everyone was in love with her from that movie. She's 41. When they make this movie, they give her a hairdo. Like, she's like the person on the right in the View. She looks like a hairdo of like a 59 year old. They dress her. They dress her like. Hold on, I'm not done.

[Van Lathan]

They dress her.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

They dress her like a grandmother.

[Van Lathan]

She's a second grade teacher.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she's.

[Bill Simmons]

She's 41 and divorced. She's not Mary McDonald can't get some. She's like, her only hope is people coming over after a couple drinks.

[Chris Ryan]

She's a. Are you saying that she's undesirable in the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm saying they made her look undesirable and I don't appreciate it.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think she was cute either.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she would have been feeling herself a little bit. She's a divorce lady. Centric. And like, she's like your Aunt Stella.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think she just loves the game? Do you think she just loves hoops and wants to be a part of the program still like the purity of basketball ball.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was. She's. She's presented as the moral compass of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

It seems like Josiah's dad was trying to hit Mar.

[Bill Simmons]

Mar Marquez Johnson.

[Chris Ryan]

It seems like he was trying to. When he was talking about the drinks and the wings, he seemed like he was kind of putting it down a little bit. Maybe he was trying to snake old Pete Bell right there. So we go get some wings later, we go.

[Van Lathan]

That was like a little subplot.

[Chris Ryan]

Little subplot.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what? I'm not gonna have that drink, actually.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not gonna. Yeah, she was a one.

[Van Lathan]

The only other thing I was gonna say is which age the worst is just the shame people feel because people don't feel it anymore. They would have just denied and denied and denied. Like at this point, like Pete Bell having like a crisis of like his. His moral. Moral morality and everybody feeling bad that. That this thing had happened. And like there. Nobody does that anymore. They're just like, ah. I'm just gonna just say I didn't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

I mentioned Bob Cousy as Vic. I just would have called him like Bob Crusy. Bob. Bob Loozy.

[Chris Ryan]

What about Le Bob Koozie since he's French.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage? The worst? It's a. It's God bless Dicky V. But the Dicky V scene's 40 seconds too long. It's like, we get it. Dicky V's at the game. It's just kind of he's baby. He's listening to all the players.

[Van Lathan]

Or Packer.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have cut that.

[Chris Ryan]

Dicky V was such a huge star.

[Bill Simmons]

I get it. I would have cut it. People's coaching style of just screaming at everyone and having no basketball technician ship at all.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And also like yelling at people he's trying to recruit and I just didn't really understand.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think Freddie is the actual brains behind the operation?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Freddie's probably the one.

[Van Lathan]

They got him from Oklahoma to install the 1 4.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I really wanted to be my wingman for the Mary McDonald Park. So look, you know what? You just abandoned me. So I dressed her like a 70 year old. I needed your. I needed your help. And instead you just sided with Ciara.

[Chris Ryan]

Can't be honest with you. She still looks hot to me though. Yeah, I still think she. Especially the part where she goes, you want to take a little Play a little one on one?

[Van Lathan]

I'm like, you're mad at me today because I made fun of Koozie earlier.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't appreciate that at all. Divorce lady. I don't know, I just feel like she'd be breaking out a little bit more.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, what's the hottest she's looked in the movie to you, Was it Dances Wolves looks great. What the.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you good in that movie? She won the Oscar.

[Chris Ryan]

She's good in it, but she. What? She's good. Craig, you gotta put Dances with Wolves. She's like. She's very. It's. It's very earthy. I didn't know you were into the whole.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think she's good in that movie.

[Van Lathan]

She's a beautiful woman.

[Chris Ryan]

She's gorgeous.

[Bill Simmons]

That's my point.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. And she looks good in the movie, though. I think she looks.

[Bill Simmons]

They dress her like a grandmother who.

[Van Lathan]

Dressed like Rockstar from Basic Instincts.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody who's a divorce lady. Yeah. Put a blouse on a pair of jeans. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, she's out there still trying to, I don't know, like, market that thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Fine. Yeah, whatever. So Pete calls Happy to see if Butch can keep his stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is a very cool scene on.

[Van Lathan]

Paper because now he works for Happy.

[Chris Ryan]

He. It shows that he's powerless, that Happy's calling the shots.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they do this? Is. I have this in a what stage? The worst. Do they do too much to make us just not like Pete? Pete is not a hero in this movie. He's.

[Van Lathan]

But that's the point.

[Bill Simmons]

Not likable. Yeah, but I think that's why we have such complicated relationship with this movie. Because it's like. I don't even think I really like Pete.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think that what you're supposed to get from Pete is a sense of helplessness to the changing landscape of college basketball. And that scene where he has to humble himself in front of Happy and call Happy about one of his guys is supposed to reiterate the fact that he's completely. His hands are off the stairs.

[Van Lathan]

It's actually a great.

[Bill Simmons]

You're a spineless loser. Why am I rooting for you in the final game?

[Van Lathan]

It's kind of like when Bobby Knight was winning, his antics were, like, unique and charismatic. And when he was losing, he was a brute and a bully. It's a context thing where it's like, as soon as Pete starts losing, it's like, oh, look at, like, this loot. Like, look at this guy. He can't keep control of his temper at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Last wood stage the worst for me. Ricky Rowe just asked for 50K in the tractor year. What's 30K? It's a major program. They've won three titles.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. My number starts with a five.

[Chris Ryan]

The 30K is a weird.

[Bill Simmons]

30K?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, 30K is a weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe that's, like, what his dad needed to pay off the bill on his like farm or something. You're in big combines.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean 50s, hundreds. At this point. It's like I go for 50k, 75k or 100.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky 30k is taking that 30k straight to Heidi Flies.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh my. Oh, definitely.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

We're gonna get to that. It's. That would have be $63,000 today. It's not a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Ricky should have spent some of that 30k in a blouse for Nick. Both his ex wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, Ricky could probably hit that. Ricky could get in there.

[Bill Simmons]

She's got her a pair of jeans. What's your flex category choice, man?

[Chris Ryan]

What is the best? I made up a new one. What's the best possible starting 5? You could create from the actual cameo.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a fantasy gm.

[Chris Ryan]

A fantasy gm. The best possible starting five. You could create from the actual basketball.

[Van Lathan]

Players in this movie what they actually wound up doing in basketball.

[Chris Ryan]

Or. No, no, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

The reality of the film.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, no. Not the reality of the film, but the guys that are in this movie. What's the best?

[Bill Simmons]

Do we get to your Shaq and Penny?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I mean I do. Shaq, Penny, Bobby Hurley, Calbert Cheney? I think so.

[Chris Ryan]

Bobby Hearson.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think it's Penny Allen, Houston Shaq, or three of the five have.

[Chris Ryan]

To be Penny Allen, Houston, Shaq, and.

[Bill Simmons]

Then probably Calber Chaney. He was really good in college.

[Chris Ryan]

You run Penny at the two and.

[Van Lathan]

Put Bobby Hurley at the pre car accident. Bobby Hurley was fucking awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but I want Penny to have the ball.

[Chris Ryan]

So then you put Penny at the one. Bobby Hurley doesn't make it.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus Penny can't play in the motion offense.

[Chris Ryan]

So then do you put. Because Ricky Rowe was a real player too. What's his name?

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, George lynch was really good. Probably George Lynch, Houston, Penny, Shaq and Cal Chaney. And you just have the one center of the three and you just have athletic at long athletes.

[Van Lathan]

That's like a. That's like a pretty awesome team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So there's no real power forward.

[Bill Simmons]

Hurley is 6, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Huh?

[Bill Simmons]

Hurley is 6. You don't need a power forward with Shaq.

[Van Lathan]

Shaq.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't mind Ricky Rowe off the.

[Chris Ryan]

Bench though, just to stretch things out.

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

But you don't have much shooting. You don't. If you don't have Bobby Hurley, you don't have much shooting in that.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think Ricky's a great locker room guy because he's Trying to everybody's girlfriend.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that is true. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest takeover. I think we're all lingering the same way. Blue Chips two should have happened. I don't know what part of the Butch McRae neon experience that should have happened. Whether it should have been like a late 90s or like what we were talking about where Penny's Butch is a coach in the late 2000s. But blue chips too. I'm just. You have my interest.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think blue chips 2 now would be. These guys have an X player pod that be amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

What a great idea. It's them. It's. It's Neon. It's Butch and Tommy Alter as Tony. Tony Amaker. Christ, it's the three of them.

[Van Lathan]

My hottest take is based on Ricky Rowe. Yeah, I think he's probably like just a stick man, but the way he kind of instantly brings up girls and is always talking about girls, I feel like if it keeps going on, that's the kind of guy who finds himself in Bangkok talking about wanting to be the girl who's fucking him. Like if you can't ever satiate that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then he blows his knee out. You know, it's just like he just keeps plumbing the depths until he finds himself drinking chamomile tea.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's what's on the other side at their team reunion.

[Van Lathan]

Oh. You know, sometimes I want to be the girl me and I'm the guy like me.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes I get India and a girl to watch. That's great. He was so horny in this movie. You have a hottest takes, Van.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Casting what ifs. I don't really have any other than.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I do have a high stake. I'm sorry. Okay. This movie is a good movie. Directed by freakin. It's an all time great movie to me. If Shelton directs it. It's an all. It's an all time. It's like he had. He knew what tone that he wanted to go. He knew the way he wanted to tell the story. There's.

[Bill Simmons]

And he makes it more fun.

[Chris Ryan]

He makes it more fun. There's a glitch in the movie. A small kernel of self righteousness that doesn't really work and kind of drags the movie down a little bit. So I think if Shelton directs the movie, it's one of the great basketball films.

[Van Lathan]

Piggybacking off that. What do you think if this is. Was the third of the Shelton Costner sports trilogy.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting. Different coaching style. I don't think he's as much of a yeller.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably adopts more of like a. Like a Jim Boeheim.

[Van Lathan]

But you could see Costner, like, being like, I run a clean program, and then, like, getting corrupted by somebody.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's good. Maybe he has a little no way out energy. Like, the people are coming to get him.

[Van Lathan]

Little edge.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

We could have gotten hackers to play happy. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll tell you this.

[Bill Simmons]

If Coster's in this movie, Mary McDonald's dressing a little.

[Chris Ryan]

You like that?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She's running back. He's getting a little more spark every time Coster's coming over. Oh, Coach. Want to have a. Have a drink? Casting what ifs nothing. Except for Friedkin wanted Nick Nolte only for people. And Nick Nolte had wanted to work with Friedkin since the 1970s when he didn't get a Chris Ryan favorite sorcerer.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Danny McBride Award for playing yourself. We don't necessarily get to give this out that much.

[Van Lathan]

Richard Patino.

[Bill Simmons]

It could be Richard Patino. It could be Bobby Knight.

[Chris Ryan]

Tark was good.

[Bill Simmons]

It could be Tark. Who would you give it to?

[Van Lathan]

Patino.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. I agree. Best that guy. Word. J.T. walsh. We're moving on.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not at that guy anymore. Well, Craig just gave a whole monologue a couple episodes ago about how.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, we overrate.

[Bill Simmons]

We overrate that guy. His generation.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say Marcus Johnson, too. But what about.

[Bill Simmons]

That's cool. He has, like, multiple. All NBAs.

[Chris Ryan]

You're.

[Van Lathan]

But J.T. walsh is, like, one of the great actors of.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but I'm just trying to cater to Craig's generation.

[Chris Ryan]

What about Silk Cozer?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. As a. Slick.

[Chris Ryan]

As slick.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. The guy who brings him to. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Who brings him to. Like, he's also in White Man.

[Bill Simmons]

Your guy. Anthony C. Hall.

[Chris Ryan]

Anthony C. Hall is another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the assistant. Now, the real answer is the assistant who's like, not Tony. That's. That's my guy.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of those guys. I don't even know what that guy's name is.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

He's one of those guys.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know that I've seen him in anything else. What else has he been in?

[Bill Simmons]

Or maybe I've just seen him in this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Dion Waiters Award. Incredible candidates for this happy. Two blondes, J.T. walsh, Lou Gosset, Larry Bird, and Bob Koozie.

[Chris Ryan]

Larry Bird got Bob Koozie? No. Thought that it could be Shaq, you know? No.

[Bill Simmons]

He's in it.

[Van Lathan]

Nothing for Alfred Alfre.

[Chris Ryan]

Too.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I guess she's qualified. You're right. She's. She's in multiple scenes, but yeah, she's in two scenes.

[Van Lathan]

And she has, like, one of the best lines in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Or I think it's Luke Gossett. As much as I love Koozie, but I think Koozie's in it too much.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. If Shaq's in it too much, Cousins in too much. Cousin's in, like, four.

[Bill Simmons]

Gossip comes in hot. He's great. He's basically like the officer and a gentleman guy. And he's out in three minutes. Recasting couch director city. I would like to like people. I would like to talk this one out a little bit more. Whether Nolte was the right guy. He's too close to Bobby Knight and Jack Cates. Like, I almost can't separate it.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, that's what he's doing. He's going for the quintessential college basketball. I think the image of the college basketball coach, even though Hurley's brother at UConn is kind of flipping it back to that Dan Hurley, I think the image of the college basketball coach has kind of changed. But at that time, remember, this was. What's your man from Temple?

[Van Lathan]

John Chaney.

[Chris Ryan]

John Chaney. So this was John Chaney and all the rest of these guys, these really overbearing personalities. And, you know, Bob Knight, I think he was trying to get into that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that the Costner thing intrigued me.

[Van Lathan]

Nick Nolte is the perfect actor for this version of Pete Bell. If you want Pete Bell to be. You could talk me into, like, this is where Norman Dale goes. And it's Hackman playing this. And he's always had, like, control, control over the program. Then he loses it. You could talk me into a Pacino kind of playing a patino. Calipario.

[Bill Simmons]

Hams it up too much.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he goes crazy.

[Van Lathan]

But I think that Nick Nolte is perfect for this version of People. But Nick Nolte is the reason why people are like, yeah, blue chips is okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Could Lou Gossett play Pete Bell?

[Van Lathan]

Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Do you go. Do you go black coach there?

[Van Lathan]

Have you not?

[Chris Ryan]

Or do we have to wait till after the Million Man March to make that happen?

[Bill Simmons]

No, we had some real. We had some big ass black coaches in the 90s. I don't think it would have. I just think they wanted him to be Bobby Knight and they decided Nickn was the close. Nick Nolte was closest to Bobby Knight.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think this movie works as an LA Movie. Like I.

[Bill Simmons]

It's cool.

[Van Lathan]

Like when he's like, not at all.

[Bill Simmons]

And the weather.

[Van Lathan]

The weather couldn't be better.

[Bill Simmons]

No. I almost feel like it should have been at like an SMU type school and put in like Texas.

[Chris Ryan]

They.

[Van Lathan]

They were talking happy like an oil guy. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

They were talking specifically about. Which is another thing that kind of, you know, age a little poorly. Specifically about the rise of Big east basketball and how all the television had moved over there. But that's really.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that.

[Chris Ryan]

That kind of aged pretty poorly too. But that's really the only thing that's regional about the movie. Like it had. There's not California culture. There's like nothing that goes on. They don't lean into.

[Van Lathan]

They're playing a lot of non conference games, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you one more recasting just from the era because it's Shaq and Penny. Right. Third star has to be white because it's Indiana. Could this have been late there?

[Chris Ryan]

Huh?

[Van Lathan]

It could have been.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're really trying to capture this era and you get Shaq, Penny and Christian Laitner as Ricky Rowe, it's a more interesting movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll be honest with you. I bet Shaq wasn't fucking with that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Shaq's like, he's out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Get that kid from Indiana instead.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Craig's up with the flex category. What do you got, Craig?

[Producer Craig]

I'm gonna tweak the art imitating real life. And it's just Pete Bell berating his team at halftime was an exact reenactment of the SDSU head coach after they were done to unc.

[Bill Simmons]

We should mention we're taping this on a Friday and we're taping in the morning because Craig's like San Diego State. We might be playing on Friday. If we win the play in, it's going to probably be late. I think it's at 1:00. And then Tuesday would they lose by 25?

[Producer Craig]

27. But they were down like 38 at one point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So Craig cost San Diego State the thing. Half ass. It's your fault. Half ass. Internet research. Shaquille O'Neal nominated for a Razzie Award for worse than Star. That hurt my feelings. Shaq's good in this movie. They would just be an freaking says af. Well after they made the movie was weak at the box office. It's hard to capture in a sports film the excitement of a real game with its own unpredictable dramatic structure and suspense. I couldn't overcome that. Completely disagree. Sour grapes. Make a better movie. Lots of sports movies have worked you.

[Chris Ryan]

Bill, you are all one today.

[Bill Simmons]

More. It's morning Rewatchable is more heated. Apparently Friedan didn't want Shaq to be too tall, so he had like shoes that had like tiny quarter inch soles.

[Van Lathan]

It's probably like a frame and then.

[Bill Simmons]

Boost for other people because he was like too much taller than everybody else.

[Van Lathan]

And yeah, there's that funny scene where he's just like at six, six. And Penny's like, I'm not six, six. And yeah, Jack's like, I am seven, four.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

But if you, if you look at that one scene where it's Shaq, Nick Nolte and Mary McDonald, if you look at the way that they, that they shot.

[Bill Simmons]

To frame it, you have to frame.

[Chris Ryan]

It in the right way.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

To like have him a little far. He's standing so far away from them. Because if not, it looks.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaq's final college game came against Indiana and Bobby Knight and Matt nova. Indy beat LSU by 10 in round two of the tournament and eventually went to the final four and lost to Duke and Coach K. That was Bobby Knight's last Final Four.

[Chris Ryan]

Love, Dale Brown. We had some real studs come through and we couldn't get to the final Four. Man.

[Bill Simmons]

Dale Brown not, not, not opposed to maybe sliding something under somebody's door that had some dollar bills.

[Chris Ryan]

Dale was with it. Dale. Dale.

[Bill Simmons]

He had a. Dale might have thrown a pair of car keys at somebody.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good example of when Chris Jackson went to lsu. I was like, how's, how did that happen?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, Shaq, he got in.

[Van Lathan]

On Shaq early was because Chris Jackson was from the Northeast. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

He's from Mississippi.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, he's from Mississippi.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He was like an all time scoring.

[Chris Ryan]

Ridiculous. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The gym that they use for Butch McRae in Chicago was Mount Carmel High School. And then I, I like this. The crew, including Shaq, stayed at the Howard Johnson's in Lafayette, Indiana for two weeks. All right, we're gonna, we're gonna try it again.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, great.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna go for. If this has not worked yet, we're gonna call Rosillo and we're gonna see if this works.

[Chris Ryan]

He's going to pick up now because I called him out for his low answer percentage.

[Van Lathan]

Unbelievable.

[Producer Craig]

It didn't even ring.

[Van Lathan]

He's got you on like straight to voicemail.

[Producer Craig]

He does call Rosillo again. He might be on do not Disturb. A second one might go through.

[Van Lathan]

That's not weird at all.

[Bill Simmons]

You think that's possible.

[Producer Craig]

If there was no ring. He's probably on do not Disturb.

[Bill Simmons]

He's probably do not disturb because I'm lifting grinding tape. Oh, a ring for Rosillo. Finally. We're doing rewatchables. You finally picked up. I'm with Van and cr. And we're doing blue chips. And we need your take on blue chips without any prep at all. The white guy knew exactly what he needed.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, he was. So I remember being like, this guy had a plan. He was the most. Most ruthless about the ask. And. And no was just like. That's when no gave up on life. I saw at the theater. I remember I, like, walked down from campus or actually, one of our rich.

[Bill Simmons]

Kids had a car as a freshman.

[Chris Ryan]

Which you weren't supposed to do, but.

[Van Lathan]

Rich kids always figure out a way.

[Chris Ryan]

To stay ahead and went to the theater. I'll just never forget, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Because the funny thing was, like, Shaq got it. Of all the people, Shaq understood what.

[Van Lathan]

It was really about.

[Chris Ryan]

And Nolte was just shattered when French Lick wanted. Wanted all sorts of benefits.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, that's it. Great cameo. Rosilla, great to talk to you. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

When's this post?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna send it to my friends Monday. And the hang up.

[Chris Ryan]

And the hang up.

[Van Lathan]

That's great.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. What a category.

[Chris Ryan]

Love that.

[Van Lathan]

Completely redeemed the idea.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You know, we knew it had high potential.

[Chris Ryan]

Was that the first successful execution of it?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, producer Craig call again. Maybe the second time we'll go through.

[Chris Ryan]

That tells me something about Craig, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex calling.

[Van Lathan]

Over and over. Never give up.

[Bill Simmons]

DM them.

[Producer Craig]

Over and over.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain. Nick Nolte. No cheating in a basketball movie.

[Chris Ryan]

What else you got?

[Van Lathan]

No, because, like, the white man can't jump. Like, when he's. Like. When he's not cheating, but he's like.

[Bill Simmons]

He's throwing.

[Chris Ryan]

He's hustling the game above the rim. Like him playing terrible in the last game until he gets called out because. Birdie. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's a good one, actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Mary McDonald. No.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Bob Knight. No. Alfred Alford. Team coming right off season in the brink. They win the title.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Keith smart shot. Yeah. 87.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Flunking TV in college. Yeah. Yes, 100%.

[Van Lathan]

Not done again until 1996, when I did it.

[Bill Simmons]

Rick Fox. Very brief in a really nice run here of this. Then Eddie. And then he got game.

[Chris Ryan]

He got game.

[Bill Simmons]

And Oz.

[Chris Ryan]

Oz. He was making a way as a really serious actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Who do I need to hear to get high? Can't never forget Rick Fox saying that on Oz. You remember O crazy. Did we just what? That's when everyone will know I'm about to retire. When we do the one for us. Oz rewatch.

[Van Lathan]

We just do the Oz rewatch.

[Bill Simmons]

Watch four seasons of Oz.

[Chris Ryan]

They had a BC scene.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, this is it. Bill's done point shaving movie scenes. You're still going gambler.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I think it also, it's just so crazy because, like, you know, he's got the tennis pro or the tennis kid betting on the game for him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaq and Penny know.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, wait, Shaq.

[Chris Ryan]

Talking about Shaq as an actor, were.

[Van Lathan]

You saying sports betting scenes?

[Bill Simmons]

Point. Point shaving in basketball games.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Cuz I was gonna say uncut gems is like my favorite.

[Chris Ryan]

Uncut gems is one too.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not point shaving. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

If we're just talking about taking a dive in a sports movie.

[Bill Simmons]

What about that's Longest Yard?

[Chris Ryan]

But what about the end of Color of Money, though?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a crushing one.

[Bill Simmons]

So Shaq and Penny. No, but Shaq as an actor, Sha as an actor, I think 100% yes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think that this is the best Sha.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Shaq would admit that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Bob Koozie is an actor. 100%. Richard Patino is an actor. Definitely Algiers. Algiers is the hardest location to get to in America.

[Van Lathan]

Definitely the most. It's like Burning Man.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's it. Unless you have any other Apex college basketball movies.

[Chris Ryan]

I had that as a. As a question too.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I still, I'm still partial the ones in the 70s.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Even though wouldn't say Fast break. Is age great From a political correctness.

[Van Lathan]

Directed Said is he drive. He said, is he coaching that one or is he just an extra?

[Bill Simmons]

I remember that one.

[Van Lathan]

That's in the seventies. I just, I. I saw that come.

[Chris Ryan]

Up the other day. This is probably my favorite college basketball movie of all time.

[Van Lathan]

Mine too. I mean, it's like basically our generation.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Snapshot. We get to see all of our favorite players.

[Chris Ryan]

What about recruiting scenes? Apex Mountain for recruiting.

[Van Lathan]

I still like when Brad Pitt goes to Chris Pratt to get a. To come to the A's.

[Chris Ryan]

And Moneyball.

[Van Lathan]

He's like, he's like, we're gonna move you to first base.

[Bill Simmons]

And I would go, Gene Hackman going to see Jimmy Chitwood and then doing them. I don't care if you play or not. Bold move by Gene.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm gonna say that, you know, even though I'm gonna say that the recruiting scene at At Tech and he got game is pretty special.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, with the Joe Kelly and Chasey Lane.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They listed IMDb in that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruise or Hanks?

[Chris Ryan]

Hanks. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Thanks.

[Chris Ryan]

You like Cruise?

[Bill Simmons]

I got Hanks. Really?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to say our guy Tom.

[Van Lathan]

Tom. I never would have believed ever would have been in any way part of a college.

[Chris Ryan]

He's just. He's two college.

[Van Lathan]

He's five.

[Chris Ryan]

I tell you, like, Tom is interesting for happy.

[Van Lathan]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Doing like a Les Grossman like a.

[Chris Ryan]

Tom is interesting for happy. As the like evil Jerry Maguire type.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg?

[Van Lathan]

Scorsese.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

[Van Lathan]

The guy who delivers Neon's Lexus.

[Chris Ryan]

That is Philip Seymour Hoffman.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he would have been an unbelievable Happy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you got one more flex?

[Producer Craig]

I have two flexes.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't need it to do it if you don't want to.

[Producer Craig]

I just want to pile on on Cruise that I just imagining Cruise in the paint trying to teach Neon footwork.

[Bill Simmons]

Is just all time with wearing like 6 inch boots disguised as Nikes.

[Producer Craig]

Neon picking him up so he can dunk.

[Bill Simmons]

I think if Cruz had the Jerry Maguire energy as Pete Bell and it's a completely different movie. I'm not sure I'm against it as a movie. Him doing the speech at the end.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Where he's just like, I'm a completely broken man. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No, the answer be Cruise now like old Cruise maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, old Cruise maybe.

[Producer Craig]

Yeah, Cruise maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Cruise isn't old.

[Van Lathan]

I know it's me. He's telling Anna Darmas.

[Bill Simmons]

Picking it. So no conference tournament for Western U. That before Penny and Shaq get there, season's just over. There's not like, oh, we're in the quarterfinals next week against so and so. Just regular season and we're out. What is this like the fucking like Nescac?

[Van Lathan]

Generally speaking. They miss a couple of times on like just references to real college basketball. I think they like talk about the NIT is like, oh yeah, we had a good season. We were in the nit.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

You guys would have been really disappointed if you were in the nit.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like the last game of the season wouldn't. Would have been a conference tournament.

[Chris Ryan]

The basketball stuff in the movie. In terms of the week. Yeah. The actual like what would really happen and how things really. They just expect you to go along.

[Bill Simmons]

Because then there's another part. They're recruiting Neon and they're recruiting all these guys and then Neon comes to LA to get tutored by Pete's ex wife. And we have no idea what time of the year is. And many passes the SATs in a week. And then all of a sudden he's in class and it's like, well, she.

[Chris Ryan]

What? She. She peeps. The fact that he could pass it at any time that he wants.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But it still takes a couple weeks to get it back. Is this August or September? Is school going at this point once.

[Van Lathan]

Hoops starts at Halloween.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah, but yeah, it's just so they. I just had. I was left with some questions.

[Chris Ryan]

They were getting recruited in the summer because after the season.

[Bill Simmons]

Or they're getting recruited when their freshman year starts in September. They're getting recruited that spring. Like everyone has committed already.

[Chris Ryan]

He goes right to. Well, yeah, they. So I mean you.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, you know where you're going.

[Chris Ryan]

There's still a couple players that would be holding out, but for the most part those guys would have.

[Bill Simmons]

Season's over. And then he goes to Chicago. But Butch McCrae's high school is still playing. Like there's a lot of timeline stuff. That's tough. Maybe that's aau, you know, Western University's name is the Dolphins.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, the.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that you're in LA and you're the Western University Dolphins.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you doing?

[Chris Ryan]

It's at the beach. They got mad dolphins.

[Bill Simmons]

They're not near the beach. We don't see the beach once in this movie. We're in like where it's like, we're usually UCLA is.

[Chris Ryan]

But they would. You would think that they. You could have the Dolphins. It's on the coast. Maybe the Dolphins.

[Van Lathan]

What's Pepperdine's team?

[Bill Simmons]

I could see Pepperdine. At least you're in Malibu.

[Chris Ryan]

Malibu Dolphins.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the Western University Dolphins?

[Van Lathan]

I think generally speaking, fictional sports teams are really bad at picking.

[Bill Simmons]

Like again, I'm ready.

[Chris Ryan]

The waves.

[Van Lathan]

The waves.

[Chris Ryan]

The Waves.

[Bill Simmons]

Again. I'm always here as the sports movie consultant. That's an easy email where I'm like, don't name them. The Dolphins.

[Chris Ryan]

Are there any. Any sports like colleges that have the Dolphin moniker that have the Dolphin mascot? Anybody using the.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably not. Maybe that's why they did it.

[Chris Ryan]

Got the Dolphins. Doesn't bother me that much. By the.

[Van Lathan]

Jacksonville University has Nelly the Dolphin as their mascot.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

And the College of Mount St. Vincent.

[Bill Simmons]

So Julio Fulio. Another nitpick. Ed O'Neill just has pictures of all the recruiting valuations.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's a picture of Neon getting a car. Here's like he's just happens to be.

[Van Lathan]

And he has Enemy of the Technology on his last computer.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, it's 1994. We don't even have like the Internet yet.

[Chris Ryan]

He's a local reporter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's made it his goal to take down the school. That is the most beloved thing.

[Bill Simmons]

This guy's house would be burned down.

[Chris Ryan]

This guy doesn't exist in Baton Rouge.

[Van Lathan]

Had this guy killed.

[Bill Simmons]

Everyone hates this guy. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This guy doesn't ex. The one guy. Like, if there's a national reporter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. Maybe he works for USA Today or something like that. I don't know. But if.

[Van Lathan]

No, he's supposed to be Plasky.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

He's supposed to be like a LA Big LA guy.

[Chris Ryan]

If there's a national reporter who's doing this story, that's one thing. But if there's a guy who's doing a WBRZ W, A, F, B who's making it his fucking job. Or at the Advocate in Baton Rouge to take down an LSU coach, he's like living in hell the entire time he's walking by.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably doesn't get on around the horn, probably stays local.

[Van Lathan]

Picking knit. When Freddy says under the table recruiting is his version of personal hell. It's just like, take it down a notch. Freddy.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you doing?

[Van Lathan]

You're a college basketball coach.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Freddie got hired by Oklahoma State three years later and was fired within 18 months just for being a shitty coach.

[Chris Ryan]

Picking it so they could get Indiana's rights to be in the movie for Bobby Knight in Indiana to be.

[Van Lathan]

But not Kentucky.

[Chris Ryan]

Kentucky or like any of the other things.

[Bill Simmons]

And not the NCAA because it ends up being the ncsa.

[Chris Ryan]

What the fuck is up with that? Like, you have Bobby Knight and Indiana. The movie is actually 10 to 15% cooler if you have all the schools. Richard, in Kentucky and all of these other schools.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Bobby Knight was so powerful at that point that they probably asked him. He's like, yeah, it. I'll get it done.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Just like crossed lines and didn't get permission would be my guess.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

At the end. First of all, there's a bunch of young kids playing pickup basketball at 10 at night outside.

[Van Lathan]

Possibly unanswerable question I had for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they're. They're just outside at 10 in LA. And none of them know who Pete Bell is when he comes over to help them with some. Some coaching. We've already established this is the most important guy in this whole universe. None of them know who he is. And I don't know why they're playing basketball that late.

[Van Lathan]

Also, furthermore, if you were like watching Ben practice and like a random guy came out and just like stopped the game and was like, he would think.

[Bill Simmons]

He was like an alcohol.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the Nick. Right. They're playing out there. I don't know what time it is.

[Van Lathan]

But them playing out after a basketball game. So it's probably close to like 10 o'clock then.

[Chris Ryan]

Playing out there just speaks to the greater ills of society. We all need to kind of come together and help the children. But you better not get your dumb ass off the basketball court. Trying to teach me how to shoot. Yeah, like get off the court.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, in 2025, this guy wanders onto the court and his pants are down by his ankles and probably takes a shit and that's the end of the movie. Any of their nitpicks?

[Van Lathan]

No, you just nailed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

My pleasure. Sequel Prequel. Prestige tv. All black cast are untouchable. This would have been the easiest layup for an eight episode streaming era show from 2012 on. And it's probably better suited for a streaming show, I would say so.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a pitch. Yeah, so it's an early 2000s pitch. It's a sequel, but it's not with Penny. The pitch is actually Pete Bell's return to college basketball right in the 2000s. Neon is his assistant coach. He just got finished playing and they're coaching against the dirtiest coach in college basketball, who is now Ricky Rowe.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Rick. Like Ricky Rowe.

[Van Lathan]

Ricky Rowe is tractors for everybody.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky Rowe is the Louisville Rick Pitino. Girls hoes everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Not even girls anymore. He's past girls. He's paying guys to come over.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky Rowe is running the dirty program. Pete Bell has a beef with Ricky Rowe. Ricky Rowe's on top. And he's coming back into college basketball with Neon to clean up college basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

Or couldn't that be 2025? Butch McCray versus Ricky Rowe. Could be Neon as the assistant.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, could be.

[Van Lathan]

And now the guy who's like, take a hike. Has like a podcast and it's really influential in college.

[Chris Ryan]

Podcast is called Take a Height.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Where he talks about everybody who needs to get fired.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, today I have Tay Frazier on talk about the final 8T.

[Chris Ryan]

Tell us why St. John's coach Richard Fatino needs to take a hike.

[Bill Simmons]

Take a hike. Presented by State Farm. Is this movie better With Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson? No. Byron Mayo, Chris Berman, Barney Cousins? Tony Roma, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm.

[Van Lathan]

I'm bringing back J.T. walsh. He's in the movie, so we can bring him back. And I'm bringing back J.T. walsh as Markinson. When Pete Bell calls him out at the press conference, he goes, I don't want a deal and I don't want immunity. I want you to know that I am proud neither of what I have done or what I am doing. The nickname completed.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the last scene of the movie.

[Van Lathan]

And then to take a hike, guy is like, looks like Western got the death penalty.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, man, that's so up.

[Bill Simmons]

No, then we need. That's where you need, like, Tom. How do we get drunk Tom Cruise in there for the next scene. Oh, my God. Like if he was the Anna O'Neal part. Yeah, he comes in.

[Van Lathan]

No, Tom Cruise is Koozie, right? Oh, no.

[Chris Ryan]

Poor Markinson, bro. He had so much on his mind.

[Van Lathan]

There is no Markinson. Doesn't exist.

[Chris Ryan]

Mar. Doesn't exist.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm neither proud of what I did. Oh, my God. Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Happy was way more like Colonel Nathan Jessup than he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was workshopping something where when they're in Algiers, they run into Nell for two seconds looking for the gym, and she's like. They're like, this white lady's crazy. Let's get away.

[Chris Ryan]

She's in the woods.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's in the woods. She's in the woods in Algiers with the alligators. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Tough one.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's tough because I. It seems like the obvious answer is Nolte, but he's. He's going so far that I think.

[Van Lathan]

I think I'd probably go Shelton screenplay. And just because he's probably the best writer of movie. Sports movies ever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'd probably go J.T. walsh, but I don't really feel like anyone deserves an Oscar.

[Chris Ryan]

Not really. But if you had to give one.

[Bill Simmons]

It'D be the script, probably unanswerable questions. Why wasn't Jalen Rose. And this was my number one. I don't really have any other ones. We've already covered everything.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we covered a bunch of them.

[Bill Simmons]

What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? Pete Bell's ring, which is his championship ring, which is prominently shown over and over again, I think would be a good one. But for me, it would be Tony's number 44 blue Western jersey during the point shaving game. I just think it would be a great thing to have in the house.

[Van Lathan]

I'd like one of those tv, VCR combos, and then all the game tapes.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, the game tapes would be fucking fantastic.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And I would also honestly love B roll. Like, extra footage that Friedkin had of just the practices and games that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that should just be on YouTube. Those games.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Watching the Bobby Hurley, Calbert Chaney, Indiana.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, how. Like, how they actually were getting down and going crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a fun rewatchables category. If this footage existed, how much of it would you watch on YouTube? I think I'm in for over an hour of the footage.

[Chris Ryan]

Absolutely. Watching Hurley, just watching Hurley in the Indiana uniform is so surreal.

[Van Lathan]

It's kind of like, oh, I look pretty cool.

[Chris Ryan]

It did.

[Bill Simmons]

It did. Do you feel like that point guard style is just gone now? That. That point guard with the head up, pounding the ball, who's always looking, who's always ready to run, like, the perfect set so fast? Yeah, he's just.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's morphed a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Chris Ryan]

It's kind of gone, but I see it in some players. Bronnie, you're hating on him.

[Bill Simmons]

He had 17 yesterday.

[Chris Ryan]

He had 17. All right, Stephen A.

[Bill Simmons]

Because now it's like the type of point guard now is like, the Darius Garland type would be the type in this opposing guy in the movie, you.

[Van Lathan]

Know, who has a little bit of. This is new.

[Bill Simmons]

Scoot.

[Chris Ryan]

I was about to say scoot. Scoot. Like, Scoot has a little bit of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks for that. Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

Scoot's coming along.

[Van Lathan]

No, but it's more like a maxi type.

[Bill Simmons]

C. And I have so much Scoot stock, it's like our brokers are, like, telling us to offload it right now. We're, like, doubling down.

[Chris Ryan]

You think Reed shepherd used to be a guy that would be like that. But Reed Shepherd's a little too silky. He can do a little bit too many things.

[Bill Simmons]

The Z Award for what happened the next day. I'm bringing this back just for this movie we talked about. I just think we have to go.

[Van Lathan]

Through the three guys, the title cards, right?

[Bill Simmons]

We find out Ricky Rowe injured his knee and works on a farm. Tough beat.

[Chris Ryan]

Karma for him.

[Bill Simmons]

They made him somehow the least likable guy in a movie with a point shaver and a. A booster who's shaving points and paying off players.

[Chris Ryan]

And Pete Bell, who's not likable, racist, horny. At least his dad, like. Like they.

[Bill Simmons]

His character Ricky Rowe is like, he welcomed all races I think he would have sex with anybody.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Ricky Ro. I think Ricky Roll. I think Ricky Roll was cool, but they didn't give his character.

[Bill Simmons]

And his good handshake was Shaq at one point.

[Chris Ryan]

And his family, they gave his. They've given him like no dimension.

[Van Lathan]

He also really does not have much of a role on the team as they kind of. I like. They're. They. They don't. There's not a lot of Ricky Row footage we get outside of him shooting in the yard.

[Bill Simmons]

That. That was kind of the last era for the Ricky Row type guys. Those. That kind of six, seven, six harp ring type dude. Yeah, yeah. It peaked with Austin Crosier in the 2000 finals.

[Chris Ryan]

And then he was getting busy.

[Bill Simmons]

Slowly went down.

[Van Lathan]

Gordon Hayward is the last gasp butcher.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think it's the actual careers the guys had. Except Neon would have been like five years older getting into the league. But same kind of I think arcs. I think Sha. I think Neon might make an all NBA.

[Chris Ryan]

Neon's playing Shaq?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So he's. He's. He's Shaqing personality. Even when he walks out there after all of this stuff has happened and he goes, coach. And you think he's about to say something profound like, you really changed my life. Getting me out of the jungle of algae, snakes everywhere, alligators all over.

[Bill Simmons]

Nell was yelling at me.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that the whole deal? And he go, legs is behind me, right? He goes, you like my spin move?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then you know, that's. That's who Shaq is.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Finack Award, best life lesson, I guess.

[Van Lathan]

If you're going to cheat, don't act ashamed of it. You know what I mean? Like that's sort of what comes along with all of this.

[Chris Ryan]

Mine is just cheat, you know, Just cheat. Why not Stop acting like a cheat. Get the wins. Like nobody cares. You coach now. You coaching in the Midwest somewhere. Kids and whatever. Just cheat, man.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think Jenny and. And Pete get back together? Seems like not.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean if he.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Marcus Johnson. I think he circles back.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean after Pete quits, I think he's coming by with a call twice.

[Chris Ryan]

The reality is like, who's going to fucking want her crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she should move.

[Chris Ryan]

Fucking why did she move after the divorce?

[Bill Simmons]

Get out of there. Start your life somewhere else.

[Van Lathan]

She's a teacher in Los Angeles.

[Bill Simmons]

Move to like wherever, maybe Anaheim.

[Chris Ryan]

She takes her. She takes some.

[Bill Simmons]

Get away from this guy.

[Chris Ryan]

She takes her some fucking pride in herself and the way that she looks at her appearance. Maybe she can Actually get a man because she's not going to get Marcus Johnson looking like that. She's going to have to be JET beauty of the week.

[Bill Simmons]

Go to a store that sold clothes from the last 10 years.

[Van Lathan]

Z want nailed. Does Bob Koozie's vic character have a massive heart attack when his entire athletic program is brought to his knees?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's got the football program.

[Chris Ryan]

They're dirty too.

[Van Lathan]

The football program gets outed at the.

[Chris Ryan]

A linebacker and they buy in people friends of the program.

[Bill Simmons]

My Coach Finock award for best life lesson is go wide on the basketball scenes. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. We like to see basketball from a certain perspective. And don't overthink it. Best double feature choice.

[Van Lathan]

I think white man can't jump just because. No, you know what? I'm gonna go above the room.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going with the program.

[Bill Simmons]

I have one on one with Robbie Benson. I would watch that first. It's also Western University. It's basically the same things, but it's the 70s perspective on it.

[Van Lathan]

It's a.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a really good movie.

[Chris Ryan]

One on one with Robbie Benson.

[Van Lathan]

Robbie Benson. Big moment.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, out of all the 70s basketball movies, which I obviously have loved and seen a million times, I think it's weirdly aged. The best. Best. It's got Seals and Croft as a soundtrack. Annetto Tool, soon to be seen in 48 hours is the love interest. It's got good basketball scenes and I don't know, Robbie Benson can kind of hoop. Like for real.

[Chris Ryan]

He's.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like a little Austin Reevesish. Check it out.

[Van Lathan]

Should San Antonio just put a contract on the table?

[Chris Ryan]

Very youthful looking, 70 year old guy.

[Van Lathan]

He's in several.

[Bill Simmons]

And some 70s babes in that movie too.

[Chris Ryan]

Like who?

[Bill Simmons]

Like for real? No, there's like a let's get the lead character laid scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think you look at it. Yeah. Who won the movie? Tough one.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna say Nolte. It defines the movie. His performance defines the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

For me personally. Koozie wins it. But I actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you kidding me?

[Bill Simmons]

Koozie's amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

Like what?

[Bill Simmons]

Koozie's amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you doing, Bill?

[Bill Simmons]

Ten straight free throws. Cameras rolling. Was there a better. Was there a better athlete athletic moment in a sports movie in the 90s?

[Chris Ryan]

Like 10 straight Bill Shaquille O'Neal is.

[Van Lathan]

Larry Bird is shooting free throws.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Penny looks the heart wants.

[Chris Ryan]

You're joking. You're joking.

[Bill Simmons]

I said for me, Bob Cousy wins the movie because I love Seeing the.

[Van Lathan]

Coos in this movie, not Mary McDonald's.

[Chris Ryan]

Costume designer, I actually think Shaq wins the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Shaq wins the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think all these years later, I think this movie's a huge win for him.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the only time he's really been hyper. He can charisma his way through anything, but the only time he's been really competent in a movie, to me, is this one.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Producer Craig had never seen this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Let's get the take.

[Producer Craig]

Also, not to outdo Koozie, but Ricky Rowe hits like four straight jumpers on a dirt road, so he just.

[Chris Ryan]

Ricky Rowe is just fucking. They real shots.

[Producer Craig]

By the way, the sequel to me has to be Nolte goes to like or Pete Bell goes to like, Montana State, builds a team the old school way and then ends up meeting Western in March as like a 15 verse 2 season.

[Bill Simmons]

Fred is coaching them.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's Dylan West Dillon style.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Producer Craig]

Yeah. That would be awesome. But I love this movie. I. This is an early contention for top five rewatchables.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was really exciting.

[Producer Craig]

A really great nostalgic look at an old era. It takes a lot of swings. I think, honestly, most of it works. I think all the. The Pete Bell. The Pete Bell stuff plays for me. The romanticism plays for me. As I was watching, I just like jotted down six bullet points is what I wrote down. Watching one of the great opening sports movie scenes ever. Fantastic pace for a movie where, you know, a lot of it takes place in offices or in, like, homes in the Midwest. Happy has the most. What's age? The best and worst speech of all time. I think it's the best basketball in a movie ever.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

I think heard the case made.

[Producer Craig]

I think it's the most refreshing cameo. Old school cameos that kind of also represent an era that's like Jim Boeheim just sitting in the background is just if. That'd be like if Damien Chazelle made a football movie today. And it was like, oh, yeah, Kyle Shanahan's in it. Malik Neighbors is the main character. Drake May's in it for a couple scenes. Like something that wouldn't happen today.

[Van Lathan]

Don't get Bill mad with only a couple scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

And Drake made the star. What happened there?

[Producer Craig]

I also wrote down Credence Clearwater Revival, Jenny Bell, greatest ex wife of all time, and Bob Koozie. You'd sooner believe that Koozie was an actor they taught to play basketball than the other way around.

[Van Lathan]

Koozie's very good.

[Chris Ryan]

Kouzy's very good as an actor.

[Producer Craig]

That's also a shot at his form, though, I got to say. It's a little Stanley from the office, not going to lie.

[Bill Simmons]

What? What? Were you surprised by the ending?

[Chris Ryan]

Don't ignore that. Address it.

[Producer Craig]

No, I think you. I. I think it needed to happen. I think it's one of the only sports movies I can remember that doesn't end on the big game, and the actual games don't really have too big of an impact on the movie. Yeah, it's impressive that the basketball is so good, considering that the basketball's not that essential to the film. And it doesn't end. I mean, the end of the movie is the first game of the season, which I can't remember when that's happening, so I thought the ending really worked for me also. You guys didn't. Did you guys do a better title? I think there's a better title for this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it?

[Producer Craig]

I think it's Friends of the Program.

[Chris Ryan]

Friends of the Program is good, but then it reorients the movie around the friends of the program and not really the players, which is what the movie is essentially about.

[Van Lathan]

What about where the dolphins swim?

[Producer Craig]

Did they say blue chips in the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

No, No.

[Producer Craig]

I feel like they should have. It's the rare time when I think they should have said, like, we need to get some blue chips on this.

[Chris Ryan]

But I'll be honest with you. This. The title of this movie is how I understood what that meant.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I. I think I. I'm good with the title, but I like Friends in the Program. Yeah, pretty good.

[Chris Ryan]

They should do a movie.

[Van Lathan]

The recruits would be good.

[Chris Ryan]

They should make a movie called Friends of the Program that's oriented around, like, a movie about Happy. And those types would be super duper interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you needed an extra scene that then set up the title where if you have. If they're going, like, we need to get guys in the top 10, we need top 10. We need groups again. And then you call it top 10, and it's like, we got three top 10 blue chippers or the blue chippers, something. Somebody says that at some point. I'm down with that.

[Producer Craig]

I also just like when great directors make movies that are outside their typical. What you would expect of them. Like, I almost wish there were prerequisites, like in college where.

[Bill Simmons]

Where.

[Producer Craig]

Where directors had to make every kind of movie before they could choose a major. Like the guy who just made the Exorcist. Doing a basketball movie is really cool. And I think, I think it's why visually it is a little bit more unique than typical sports movies.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not just the Exorcist that he made Craig. He also made Cruising.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, so does this. We haven't done French connections. So this is our third freaking.

[Bill Simmons]

I think there's a fourth one we haven't done.

[Van Lathan]

To Live and Die in la.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, auditioning.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not just saying I love it. I mean, you know, out on 4K Blu Ray.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you know, Mulaney's kind of bringing it back to the Netflix show. He basically ripped off the credits.

[Producer Craig]

You don't think Jenny Bell is Apex Mountain for Ex Wives in a movie?

[Chris Ryan]

She.

[Producer Craig]

She basically gives up her personal life to crush tape. She lets you come over after the game to blow off steam and drink and she recruits students for you for free.

[Chris Ryan]

It's weird because, I mean, she's basically doing everything for him except giving up the push.

[Van Lathan]

She does more than Freddie.

[Bill Simmons]

It would take too long to get her clothes off. She's wearing like five different pieces of clothing. Shirt, a sweater, jacket.

[Chris Ryan]

She's still so involved. He can ask her for anything except for physical effects.

[Producer Craig]

She's going out to dinner.

[Chris Ryan]

Like they're still married.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the air of the wet blanket sports movie. Girlfriend slash wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Starting with Adrian. Yeah. She's not blanket though.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

They try not to make her the wet blanket, but then at the end when she's super disappointed and oh, she definitely. Because she wet blankets it up. But she's kind of justified because she's the only person with a soul in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

I was going to ask you. We didn't really do Big Kahuna Burger, Craig, but would you like it if like basically everybody from work went to the same restaurant every night? Yeah. Hell yeah. And I, I walked in night with like two ladies. Craig, she's a friend.

[Producer Craig]

These guys are fans of the fantasy pod.

[Van Lathan]

These guys, these gals love hypit.

[Chris Ryan]

Who would be the.

[Producer Craig]

They got first in their fantasy league.

[Chris Ryan]

If we were all at the bar together? Who would be the person that walked in with two ladies on their arms?

[Bill Simmons]

Brian Curtis. That's always the answer. It's a friend of the program.

[Chris Ryan]

Friend of the program.

[Van Lathan]

Hello media consumers.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, really glad you liked that movie. Don't forget people listening. We're coming to Boston for a sold out show and we're doing a first ever Rewatchables film festival at the historic Coolidge Corner all weekend, Friday, March 28th. Through the March 30th. We're going to make a couple appearances. Yeah, but we're playing all the hits, man. We, we. We're showing Heat, showing the Town. We're showing Goodwill Hunting. We're showing Friends of Eddie Coyle, a couple old school ones. The Verdict.

[Chris Ryan]

So these are all based movies?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, they're Boston or heist movies.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you guys gonna be showing the HBO Max documentary, A Murder in Boston?

[Bill Simmons]

That'll be good for the future.

[Van Lathan]

We're showing all seasons of Oz marathon.

[Bill Simmons]

All the Rick Fox episodes of Oz.

[Van Lathan]

I want to say to the people of Boston, if there is in fact any pickup basketball happening around 10pm Bill is happy to come and coach 10pM.

[Chris Ryan]

Or have Bob Koozie shoe free throws. So you guys can be amazed.

[Bill Simmons]

My dad is incredibly pumped for the Verdict.

[Van Lathan]

How many of the movies do you think Dr. Bill's gonna see over under.

[Bill Simmons]

Four and a half? Okay. He doesn't have a lot going on. They got. Got the new puppy. Celtics are away.

[Chris Ryan]

What kind of dog?

[Bill Simmons]

Got it. Got another golden.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Guess what? It might have been a mistake because he's 77 and the dog wakes up three times a day to pee. He's got scratches all over him. And it's like. I don't know if we should have done this, but yeah. Coolidge Corner, one of my favorite. Do you ever actually live there?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I lived in Brooklyn.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

For a year.

[Bill Simmons]

The best. So we'll see you visit Ringer theringer.com events for Showtime's Ticket information. You've never been to Boston, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Not really.

[Van Lathan]

You've been through it?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what? Boston hasn't appreciated your shots. Your shots at the city.

[Chris Ryan]

At the city.

[Bill Simmons]

The Needles.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sure that Boston, you would love. Boston is a fine place.

[Bill Simmons]

Boston would love you.

[Chris Ryan]

I just have to. To keep you honest, man. I believe it because the agenda is so.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you know, today. You guys went too far with Bob. I said, he won the movie for me. I said, he won the movie for me.

[Van Lathan]

I said, Nick Nolte. You looked at me like, what, a.

[Chris Ryan]

Star of the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

I just think Shaq clearly wins the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Bob Koozie makes, like, the free. And by the way, the free throws, even though he's shooting them, you know, it. It's impressive. But come on, man.

[Producer Craig]

The free throws did not impress me at all. Is that bad? They didn't even crossy.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe not a great scene, partner. He's not letting Nick Noy shoot.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I'm done with this podcast. See you later.