‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

Summary

The Rewatchables: Episode Summary – 'Crash' with Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, aired on February 25, 2025, Bill Simmons, along with Van Lathan and Joanna Robinson, delve into the contentious 2006 film Crash. Hosted by The Ringer, the episode explores the film's themes, its surprising win for Best Picture at the Oscars, and the subsequent backlash. The trio examines various elements of the movie, including character portrayals, narrative structure, and its lasting impact on Hollywood and societal discussions about race.

Live Show Announcement

At the outset, Bill Simmons announces The Rewatchables' upcoming live show in Boston at the House of Blues on March 27th. He shares details about the event lineup and ticket sales, expressing excitement about finally bringing the show to Boston.

Discussion on Crash

Crash serves as the central focus of this episode. Simmons introduces the film as "the biggest Oscars travesty of the 21st century," highlighting its Best Picture win over Brokeback Mountain. He describes Crash as a "weirdly watchable movie" that has, over time, taken on elements of comedy.

Character Analysis and Casting Critique

The hosts critique the film's casting choices and character development:

• Terrence Howard: Praised as "fantastic" and noted for doubling up with his role in Hustle & Flow. However, discussions reveal concerns about his limited recognition beyond Crash.

  Van Lathan (04:33): "There are a couple of scenes in the movie that get it devastatingly right."

• Sandra Bullock: Criticized for being typecast in romantic comedies, with her role in Crash seen as an attempt to break free from this stereotype.

  Bill Simmons (05:19): "Sandra Bullock is like, I'm being typecast in rom coms. I gotta break out of this."

• Don Cheadle: Acknowledged for bringing credibility to the film, with his role as a police officer navigating personal turmoil.

• Ryan Phillippe: Considered miscast, with the hosts suggesting alternatives like Heath Ledger or John Cusack for his role.

  Joanna Robinson (06:59): "I agree with Van. I don't think I've seen it since I saw it in the theaters, but... they're all... the Matt Dillon scene."

Oscar Controversy and Backlash

The episode delves into the controversy surrounding Crash's Oscar win:

• Bill Simmons (09:16) reflects on how Crash became infamous as the most famously egregious Oscar Best Picture win, noting the polarized reactions it elicited.

• Joanna Robinson (11:23) cites Roger Ebert’s fluctuating stance on the film, highlighting its divisive nature.

• Van Lathan (13:49) argues that the film was celebrated by Hollywood elites for its racial themes, leading to intensified dislike among general audiences who felt the critical acclaim was unwarranted.

  Van Lathan (13:49): "Crash was a movie that people were told that they should love, and they were told that, like, this movie is an incredibly biting and important criticism on race."

Themes and Societal Impact

The hosts dissect the movie's handling of race relations:

• Joanna Robinson (17:40) points out that the film's overt portrayal of racism lacks subtlety, failing to address microaggressions and instead resorting to broad stereotypes.

• Bill Simmons (25:19) discusses how Crash attempted to critique both overt and subtle racism but fell short due to its heavy-handed approach.

  Bill Simmons (25:19): "He showed us they had a $7.5 million budget. He took out three mortgages on his house... and then they decide to put DVDs to the different guilds. They were the first movie to send the DVDs to all the guild members. All of a sudden you win a Best Picture Oscar."

Rewatchability and Legacy

Despite the criticisms, the hosts acknowledge moments in Crash that remain memorable:

• Most Rewatchable Scene: Michael Peña’s interaction with his daughter, showcasing genuine emotion amidst the film’s complexities.

  Joanna Robinson (40:05): "I say Pena and his daughter. Like the invisible cloak scene."

• Least Rewatchable Scenes: Various over-the-top racist interactions and unrealistic plot developments that detract from the film’s overall impact.

  Van Lathan (45:38): "This is the least effective anti-slavery movie I've ever seen."

Alternative Casting and Hypotheticals

The trio entertains alternative casting choices, suggesting actors like Tom Hanks, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Quentin Tarantino's potential directorial role, imagining how these changes could have altered the film's reception and quality.

Van Lathan (56:56): "Top five rewatchable scenes: Shaniqua Johnson and the insurance guy. She’s like, 'I know it's your fault, blah, blah, blah.'"

Conclusion

In wrapping up, Bill Simmons reflects on Crash's place in cinematic history as a film that sparked significant debate about race and the Oscars' decision-making process. The hosts agree that while Crash aimed to address important societal issues, its execution left much to be desired, resulting in a film that is often revisited more for its controversies than its artistic merit.

Bill Simmons (104:13): "That’s Crash. That’s Rewatchables."

Notable Quotes

• Bill Simmons (03:30): "I do care about the biggest Oscars travesty of the 21st century. Crash."
• Van Lathan (06:57): "They… are either their first big serious thing, they're making a turn, or Matt Dillon near the end of being a major star."
• Joanna Robinson (17:40): "All the racism is so obvious and broad that it just ignores the subtler, like microaggression factuality of how we navigate our lives."

Timestamp Highlights

• 00:00: Live show announcement in Boston.
• 02:03: Introduction of Crash as an atypical rewatchable selection.
• 05:19: Discussion on Sandra Bullock’s typecasting.
• 09:16: Reflection on Crash's Oscar legacy.
• 17:40: Critique of the film’s handling of racism.
• 40:05: Identification of the most rewatchable scene.
• 56:56: Suggestion of alternative impactful films.
• 104:13: Final thoughts on Crash's place in film history.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a deep dive into Crash, providing listeners with a nuanced perspective on its strengths and flaws. While acknowledging moments of genuine emotion and strong performances, the hosts critique the film’s overarching narrative and handling of sensitive themes, cementing Crash's reputation as a polarizing piece in Hollywood history.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

What's up, Rewatchables fans, as you know, we've done live shows in New York, in Philly, D.C. in Chicago, L.A. many times. We've never done Boston. I've been saving it for the right moment. The right moment is here. It's going to be Thursday, March 27th. It's going to be the House of Blues, which is right by Fenway Park. And it's going to be the dream team. Me, Chris, Ryan, Sean Fantasy and Ryan Rossillo. That's right, we're all coming back. We're not doing the town. We're not touching the town. That one episode lives on forever on YouTube, Spotify. We're not redoing it, but we'll probably do a Boston movie. And tickets will go on sale this Thursday, February 27th. That's only a couple days away at 10am Eastern. All information will be on the ringer.com events very soon. Once again, the Rewatchables live Boston Thursday, March 27 House of Blues Thursday ticket sales 10am Eastern. Ringer.com events and we're going to have a couple more things we're doing that weekend too. So I'm very excited. We have not come to Boston yet and we're gonna do it right. Hope to see you there. This episode is brought to you by the White Lotus Season 3. I love this show. It's the show that almost makes you wanna head on vacation. And this season it's headed to Thailand. Same luxury, new reservations, definitely some chaos to be had. So expect some great new characters, some returning favorites and a classic White Lotus take on a wellness getaway. And you can even get our recaps on the Prestige TV podcast. Watch a new season of the Emmy Award winning HBO original series the White Lotus. New episod and now streaming on max. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock.

[Van Lathan]

During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places between payroll.

[Bill Simmons]

Your tax consultant and the IRS.

[Joanna Robinson]

If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves.

[Van Lathan]

That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second.

[Joanna Robinson]

If your identity is stolen, they'll fix.

[Van Lathan]

It, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride.

[Bill Simmons]

Save up to 40% your first year.

[Van Lathan]

Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find us on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can also find us every episode now on video on Spotify. You can see our beautiful our beautiful hosts, Joanna Robinson Van Lathan myself. We don't normally do this. We usually do movies we love and we can't stop rewatching. But it's the Oscars, and we're gonna do Crash, which won the 2006 Best Picture Award, and it's unbelievable. And it's next.

[Van Lathan]

Get out.

[Bill Simmons]

Give me the keys.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just had a gun pointed in my face.

[Bill Simmons]

Experience.

[Van Lathan]

The most provocative and powerful movie of the year. We leave this man here, he dies. I promise I'm gonna find out who did this. Hebrewed in rubber. Get crashed. Two thumbs way up. You had a conversation with God, huh? What did God say? One of the best films of 2005. What did you do?

[Bill Simmons]

Crash.

[Van Lathan]

Rated R in theaters everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Friday. All right. Joanna Robinson is here. Van Lathan is here. You guys have sorted out all your Marvel stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Captain America, Brave New World. This is a text exchange.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So just a spicy text exchange.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You don't care.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

Don't care. I don't care at all. I do care about the biggest Oscars travesty of the 21st century. Crash. Winning over Brokeback Mountain. This is a weirdly watchable movie, and I would even say a rewatchable movie that is also now kind of a comedy.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what you said. I want to know what mood you're in when you sit down to rewatch Crash.

[Bill Simmons]

There's good scenes in this movie, but the totality of it leaves me going, I can't believe this happened.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's happening on a day where Bill's like, I'm gonna fire up Crash. I gotta. Gotta get my. Crash.

[Bill Simmons]

Flipping channels.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, Matt Dillon's running up the hill.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

He's gonna try to save her in the car. It's like, all right, I'll watch the scene.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So I hadn't seen the movie in a while. I've seen it a bunch of times. I hadn't seen the movie in a while. It. It's. It's. It's not very rewatchable.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have. I have not seen it since I saw it in theaters.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Maybe we call it the Hate. The Hate Watchable.

[Bill Simmons]

This is now we're celebrating. I thought it was the 20th anniversary of when it won, but it's actually the 19th anniversary.

[Van Lathan]

When you get into the movie, there's just like a wave of nostalgia that hits you. Because of the cast.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And because of what place we must have been in society for this movie to have been made and been taken so seriously. Cause, like, everybody in the movie is at a weird type of position in their career. Like Terrence Howard's as hot as he ever was in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

But we don't know that in 2005 when he's making it. Cause he has this. And Hustle. And Hustle. And the same year.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Sandra Bullock is in a. Sort of. And Brendan Fraser as well. Like Brendan Fraser more than her. Brendan Fraser's in a weird woman.

[Bill Simmons]

It's almost over for him as a star.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Sandra Bulk is like, I'm being typecast in rom coms. I gotta break out of this. I'm gonna play the biggest bitch who's ever been in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Meanwhile, Michael Pena is on the rise. On the rise.

[Bill Simmons]

This is his first big job.

[Van Lathan]

Like, Cheadle is taking control of his Hollywood A list status in this one. Cause he's also a producer. And then you look throughout the cast and there's just other people who. Who. This is either their first big serious thing, they're making a turn, or Matt.

[Bill Simmons]

Dillon near the end of being a major star.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

But this was supposed to be sort of his revival. And it didn't quite work out that way.

[Bill Simmons]

Although he did get nominated, which I was shocked by.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was the only actor nominated out of this movie. And that's just one of the many delightful things about Crash.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you think on your rewatch?

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree with Van. I don't think I've seen it. I saw it since I saw it in the theaters, but. But I remember it so well. So rewatching it, I was like, these are sort of iconic, comical, but iconic film scenes. You know, the. The Matt Dillon, Tandewa Newton car crash scene. Michael Pena with his daughter. Like, there's just a bunch of moments. Sandra Bullock falling down the stairs. Whatever it is, you know, there's something for everyone. But I just remember this movie so well.

[Van Lathan]

Why does she fall down the stairs? You know what I'm saying?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's karma, man.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but like.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she had a lesson to learn.

[Van Lathan]

Why did she fall down the stairs?

[Joanna Robinson]

So we could find out that Carol's a bitch.

[Van Lathan]

It just, you know, that's the kind.

[Bill Simmons]

Of thing she needed. The scene with the maid.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

You're the only friend I have.

[Van Lathan]

There are a couple of scenes in the movie that get it devastatingly right. And I'll talk about, like. I'll talk about like.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you get emotional during this movie at any point?

[Van Lathan]

A little bit. There are times just because the sheer human agony that's happening on the screen, sometimes you relate to it. But it's so ham fisted, overwrought and heavy handed that you, in its totality, you just cannot take it seriously. In its totality. It becomes funny because you start to think, what race thing can happen next. Like, if all the characters at the end of this movie would have joined hands and started singing We Shall Overcome, it would have made sense in context of the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Except instead you have Loretta Devine like coming in and saying, like, speak American to me in the car crash scene at the end.

[Van Lathan]

Race.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the nostalgia angle.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying, every single look, in a lot of ways I can make an argument that this movie brought me to la. We. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

You saw this movie. You're like, that's where I want to be.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he's like, I like, I want to be in a place where people have to crash into each other to feel something.

[Joanna Robinson]

To feel something.

[Van Lathan]

Feel something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm in Louisiana this whole time and Louisiana has grown tired of my shtick. You know, they know it. I've been doing it since the sixth grade. I'm in the all white classes. I'm injecting race into everything. They're immune to it. Right. It's not working on them anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And Crash comes out. I'm 25, I'm 24. I'm looking around, I'm like, where could I go to where I can revitalize the thing that I do?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Boom. That's the place. LA 2005.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. As Matt Dillon's running up that hill, Van's like, I'm running to la.

[Joanna Robinson]

When do you. So, okay, so when do you think LA is gonna grow tired of your shtick? What do you think?

[Bill Simmons]

Never.

[Van Lathan]

Probably not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's just too many people. It's too much stick.

[Bill Simmons]

He keeps adding stuff. Like he added the hat last year.

[Joanna Robinson]

He keeps adding wrinkles.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. You gotta come up with new gimmicks. Also, it's now the point that I've actually grown tired of the shit. Like I came to the ringer and now I just wanna talk about Star wars and basketball all day long. But every time I walk NFL draft, somebody grabs me and they go, you see what happened in South Carolina? They outlawed Negro. And I'm like, gotta spring to action.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? You're just on call at all times.

[Van Lathan]

So that's the thing. So we ride till the wheels fall off.

[Bill Simmons]

The nostalgia thing one of you mentioned, which I thought is an interesting point because this did make me nostalgic for this pre social media era of movies like this where people Kind of didn't know any better, and they just went for it. And there wasn't like, a fear of a backlash, because it was much harder to have backlash back then. Back then, we had newspapers, we had early Internet websites.

[Joanna Robinson]

We had, like, deep message boards.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm just saying, like, there was less of a mechanism to kind of respond in anger to a movie like this. So this was a slow build, and I don't think it really. I don't think people really got pissed off about this movie until the Oscars, when it won Best Picture. And you can go back and watch it on YouTube. Nicholson's the. He's the presenter, and he does it and he reads it, and he's like, the winners crashed. And he goes, whoa. And you hear the crowd. The crowd, which I don't know if I've ever heard this at the Oscars. They make like a what the fuck? Noise. They're like. It was like one of those noises. And that was when this movie, it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Turned, I think, especially because at that Oscars, Ang Lee had won director, and once he won director, people thought, oh, Shirley, Brokeback's gonna win Best Picture.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there was a thing. Brokeback was the only movie to win pga, DGA and WGA and not win Best Picture Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which, by the way, Anora is. We're taping this before the Oscars, but Anora is the next one that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That could.

[Van Lathan]

The conversation became really divisive after a while because what started to happen was it almost was like the Hollywood liberal elites wanted to award one type of film, and they chose race over a movie with gay themes because we still weren't there yet.

[Bill Simmons]

We weren't. We actually weren't.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But now it's. Brokeback is such a great movie, and it's kind of. It's a fantastic. Insane. That it didn't win.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's some back. There was some backlash before the Oscar win. I. And I only know this because I read a really embarrassing Roger Ebert column where he was defending. Yeah, yeah. Where he's defending the movie against its. Its critics.

[Bill Simmons]

He loved it. And then had a second. He went back.

[Joanna Robinson]

He went. Had another bite of the apple when people are like, actually, it's not very good. And he's like, how dare you. A a.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's what you're missing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's what you don't understand about Crash. Let me, Roger Ebert, explain it to you. So that was all before, I think, the Oscar win. And. But yeah, then it really cemented itself, as I think if it hadn't won the Oscar, we. I mean, we definitely wouldn't still be talking about Crash. We would be talking about a little bit, but not the way we talk about it. Where it became sort of the most famously egregious Oscar Best Picture win.

[Bill Simmons]

The first, like, hit piece I remember heading into an Oscars. Remember reading. Was my favorite writer, William Goldman. He wrote a Saving Private Ryan review before that Oscars, and he just fucking torpedoed it. And it was great. And it was like, oh, my God, I can't. And. And it was kind of like. It was. It was a glimpse of where the Internet was probably going with some of this stuff. But by 05, this cra. The. Some of the Crash pieces, they're really funny to reread. People were on it pretty early, like this movie. I also like that movies like this exist where people either get super mad or super defensive about it. Because now, where do we have this in movies in the same way anymore?

[Van Lathan]

We don't, because everybody kind of runs and huddles to their corner, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Everyone's in their little. In their little spheres.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. A movie over here is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And everyone, like, right now, everyone is in unison about Amelia Perez. Right. There are not very many Emilia Perez.

[Joanna Robinson]

Defenders, but that wasn't the case two months ago. I think we do still get those, like, debates.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think it was the case to Monks, by the way. When I say everyone, I mean the people like it. The. The industry seems to love the movie. Right, Right.

[Bill Simmons]

You're saying that the fantasy people. Yeah, they're, like, on letterbox logging that they saw Amelia Perez.

[Van Lathan]

The people, everyone that saw it was just, like, immensely offended by the movie. However, the critical acclaim for the movie is perplexing them. It's actually driving those people that hate the movie even more.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But you have two very distinct, different factions. Crash was a movie that people were told that they should love, and they were told that, like, this movie is an incredibly biting and important criticism on race.

[Bill Simmons]

The conversation that we all need to have.

[Van Lathan]

And then when you watched was so comical from the very first scene. It was so comical. I was like, what?

[Bill Simmons]

For real?

[Van Lathan]

This? Is we supposed to take this, like, seriously? Every single stereotype is approached and then, like, sort of validated in the movie to a point to where it kind of doesn't mean anything in the end. It's just funny.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the other difference, like, there's the. If you want to talk about, like, online outrage culture, that's one thing, but there's also, like, we aren't all collectively watching movies like this anymore. This is a $7 million movie. It's a small movie. I don't think you get the. The people, as you're saying, don't go in droves to see this in the theater. If they're watching it at all. They're maybe watching it on home and at home in the background, you know, so you won't get an opportunity for people to have that kind of debate about a movie like this because they're streaming, I don't know, instead or whatever else they're watching.

[Bill Simmons]

Cheadle gave it real credibility for me when it came out. The fact that he was a producer.

[Joanna Robinson]

It didn't get made without him. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And just at the point of the career he was at, I just really liked him. He'd been in stuff I liked, and the fact that he was in it was like, oh, maybe. But it was even in 05 pretty notable that it was a white director. And that's something in 2025. There's no way a white director makes this movie. I think it's. It's zero chance.

[Van Lathan]

No, it's interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

You think that is zero chance? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're just not that far away from Green Book. Like, you know, there's just like it. Every time I think we're done with something like that, every. Every time I think we're done, we come back to it.

[Van Lathan]

So they'll never stop making Green Book. I have a list of movies like this. They'll never stop making Green Book. They'll never stop making the movie where white people solve racism. That's going to exist. So you guys can feel good about yourselves in perpetuity.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, but I'm so happy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you'll. You guys always will have one of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Than.

[Van Lathan]

This movie, though, I feel like can only be made by a white director.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Crash, you can't. A black man cannot have directed this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

Because the movie, it. It's a movie about race that's obviously made by somebody white.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It ignores, in my opinion, so much historical and contemporary context to put everyone in these trite, stupid, like, racial stereotypes. It's working so hard to make you believe that we're all a little good and we're all a little bad. The movie actually has one of the most grotesque scenes of police misconduct that I've seen in a movie. You know what I mean? Beyond like a cop just shooting somebody, literally a Sexual assault. Then has that exact same police officer saved a black woman's life. You cannot justify that scene, and I.

[Bill Simmons]

Think it was like 12 hours later.

[Van Lathan]

And be a black director. You cannot justify that scene and be the hero.

[Joanna Robinson]

And be the hero in that moment. Matt Dillon running up that hill to be the hero.

[Van Lathan]

It's a hero shot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, hero music too.

[Van Lathan]

There's no possible way you could justify that scene. If you are Steve McQueen, Barry Jenkins, Ryan Coogler, like, you can't. It's impossible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, to your point, I think all the racism is so obvious and broad that it just ignores the subtler, like microaggression factuality of how we navigate our lives. And so everyone is such like a caricature of a racist that it can make you feel good. Watch. You, a white person watching it, are just like, well, I'm, I'm no Sandra Bullock, so I'm fine. I'm not racist.

[Van Lathan]

Right. The movie starts off with these. Obviously there's a scene before that, but two guys who we don't know are carjackers, right? One dude is Ludacris. Character is ridiculously hyper aware of every racial microaggression that exists. He's also hyper aware of this entire construct of American racism. And he's even talking about how big the windows are on the bus. On the bus, all of that stuff, right? He's what you would consider to be woke. However, he has chosen to be a criminal, a criminal with a code that he doesn't rob black people. He's got this entire worldview, this entire politic that he's chosen to go out there and be a criminal. The moment they got cause we got guns. I'm like, yeah, let's get into it. This guy, he's talking to me, he's telling me about, yeah, let's go. We're gonna have a wild ride with this one.

[Bill Simmons]

First picture film since Rocky in 1976 to only win three Oscars. To show, like, what a shocker this was. By about the 10 year anniversary, the first thing, the end of the decade, that was when the first backlash really happened. By 2015, they're writing about it and Paul Haggis, the director, he said, was Crash the best film of the year? I don't think so. Crash for some reason affected people. It touched people. People still come up to me more than any of my films and say, that film just changed my life. I've heard that dozens and dozens and dozens of times. So did its job there. I mean, I knew it was the social experiment that I wanted. So I think it's a really good social experiment. Is it a great film? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's also Paul Haggis on his like, I'm no longer a Scientologist tour. Yeah, that's a whole part of this narrative. Like, why did this win Best Picture? Part of it is Scientology.

[Bill Simmons]

Explain.

[Joanna Robinson]

Paul Hag is massive Scientologist. And a lot of this is like Scientology at the height of its secretive power in Hollywood. Before it starts, like in 2007 is when you start getting bigger exposes on Scientology and people start saying, like, oh, hey, where is Shelley Miscavige? Like, what has happened in Scientology before that? They're operating in the shadows and this is like one of their biggest. You know, Haggis wins for Million Dollar Baby.

[Bill Simmons]

Like he wins the screenwriting crash.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does like three films the following year. Like he's on a heater and then he leaves the Church of Scientology and the minute he does, he's gone. Yeah, and that's just like. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound like conspiracy, Joanna, but that is.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll give you the background on him. Longtime TV writer in the 80s 90s, early 2000s, won the back to back screenwriter Oscars.

[Van Lathan]

Walker, Texas Ranger.

[Bill Simmons]

One best film for this movie. Yeah. Did Family Law. Was that with the bald guy?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember. Family law. 35 year Scientologist, left in 2009, three years after wrote Casino Royale, which is like his last big Hollywood thing. And then he's one of the ugliest. Me too. Stories. Had like a civil suit for rape and got bankrupted by it two years ago. Claimed that church framed him. And yeah, they had another pretty ugly reading.

[Van Lathan]

Had a couple other things.

[Joanna Robinson]

He got like arrested abroad.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So, yeah, that's part of the history of this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I don't talk about them people.

[Bill Simmons]

So the cast includes two future Oscar winners.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Brendan Fraser and Sandra Bullock.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrence Howard. Matt Dillon nominated, Cheadle. Nominated Michael Pena. Ryan Philippe. Kind of tail end of the Ryan Phillipe era.

[Van Lathan]

Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

You mentioned Newton. How do you say her first name?

[Joanna Robinson]

Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, is it Philippe Tandui.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Tandooey Newton Tundui.

[Bill Simmons]

Newton.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I call him Ryan Philippe.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That was Tandy.

[Van Lathan]

It's Tandy.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, she goes by Tandy Wayne.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she changed.

[Van Lathan]

She added a W. Yeah, that's very important. She did.

[Bill Simmons]

Ryan Filipe.

[Joanna Robinson]

You call him Ryan Philippe.

[Van Lathan]

Ryan Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

I call him Ryan Philippe.

[Van Lathan]

Ryan Philippe. You call him Ryan Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we'll call him what I want.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, you can like. I'm just saying I've never heard. I've literally never heard Ryan Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

You heard it now.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Jennifer Esposito. Ludacris. Lorenz Tate.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Interesting Lorenz Tate role.

[Bill Simmons]

Why? So I was gonna do this later, but I genuinely like him and I like him in every movie. And I don't know why he wasn't a slightly bigger star. He was in a lot of movies that I liked playing guys that I liked in the movie. He had a really nice 10 year run and then he just kind of went to TV and that was it.

[Van Lathan]

It's an interesting role for him because he spent the entire 90s building an undeniable momentum to become a Hollywood star.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he kind of was Cheeto five years before Cheeto.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, he literally went from critically acclaimed performance, New Jack City. Right. He did Dead Presidents, another incredibly important cultural movie, the Postman. Like that's your big huge Hollywood joint. Right. Then he has his starring role.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple rom coms.

[Van Lathan]

A couple rom coms. He has Love Jones, beloved film. Then he has why Do Fools Fall in Love? Which he's Frankie Lyman. That's your big biopic. He normally, he spends all of that time building up and then when Crash comes out, he plays number one. He plays a lot younger. He plays like a 21 year old, 22 year old kid, which in and of itself is interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then two, he plays second fiddle to a lot of people that he felt like he should have been on their level. Yeah, it felt like he should have been maybe almost. It felt like he made more sense in actually Don's role.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, really?

[Van Lathan]

At that point, like to double.

[Bill Simmons]

Don was the producer.

[Van Lathan]

I know that was the producer. And Don was further along in his career than what?

[Bill Simmons]

But they're about the same age.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but, but when you, when you looked at it, I was. Even when it was on back then, I was like, oh, it seemed like a role where he was trying to re enter the conversation after having a couple of cool years or something like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's second fiddle to Ludacris in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

He is for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Ludicrous is a hell of an actor. Ludicrous is IMDb. I was looking at it, I was like, man, I like a lot of these movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lud is genuinely great in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

I was, when you, when I watched it, I was at how good he was in the movie. I was surprised how good.

[Bill Simmons]

He's good in every fast movie. Too.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, he's good in the fast movies, but he's not like trying to do anything in the fast movies.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's good. So this was inspired by a real life incident where Haggis Porsche was carjacked in 91 outside a video store on Wilshire Boulevard.

[Van Lathan]

The movie completely, by the way, just real quick. I didn't know that until I started doing my research on the movie. The movie totally makes sense now. Yeah, totally makes sense.

[Bill Simmons]

And he kind of had this idea, filed it away, wrote an outline for it, didn't do anything with it for 10 years.

[Van Lathan]

He wants to make a movie about all the microaggressions and the societal reasons that he was carjacked. He wants to make a movie about that, but he can't quite do it without bringing everybody else into it. And he feels the need to tell everybody's story to where really the story that he wants to tell is about being him.

[Joanna Robinson]

A white guy being carjacked.

[Van Lathan]

He wants to know why that happened to him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then that ends up becoming this entire movie where he has to kind of litigate why that happens to anyone, why everything happens to everybody. But really that's what he wants to talk about. It's obvious to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he said he wrote Crash to criticize racists and bust liberals for the idea that the US had become a post racial society.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he got us. Got us good.

[Bill Simmons]

He showed us they had a $7.5 million budget. He took out three mortgages on his house. They reused locations to try to save money. The cash took way less. And they sold it in Toronto for 3.5 million, released it in the spring of 05, built it wide, put out the DVDs in the fall. And then Oprah, that was the big stamp of approval. The whole cast comes on the show in October. Oprah stamps the movie. Then they decide to put DVDs to the different guilds. They were the first movie to send the DVDs to all the guild members. All of a sudden you win a Best Picture Oscar.

[Joanna Robinson]

Screenergate. Love it.

[Bill Simmons]

They created it. Oprah and screeners.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oprah and Screeners.

[Van Lathan]

So I remember two things about the Oprah thing. Number one, I remember the big deal that it was that Ludacris was on Oprah's show. He was on Oprah's show as Chris Bridges. Oprah didn't really have rappers on her show. And Ludacris went on the show and he kind of called her out on it and. Yeah, and they kind of went Back and forth. And I think part of it was taken out of the show. And it was a big deal during the Oprah hates hip hop era.

[Bill Simmons]

What an error that was.

[Van Lathan]

It was a huge era. It was a big era. And then also we should do a retrospectum on Oprah's decision making.

[Joanna Robinson]

We really should want to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Now or after the break? Let's do it after the break.

[Van Lathan]

Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy fries right as they're being scooped into the carton and time just split?

[Joanna Robinson]

Stands still. Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details and private messages. McAfee helps stop them. Secure VPN keeps your online activity private. AI powered tech scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly. And with award winning antivirus, you get.

[Van Lathan]

Top tier hacker protection.

[Joanna Robinson]

Plus you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage, all for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com cancel anytime. Terms apply.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Van retrospective on Oprah's decision making. Wasn't expecting this in the outline.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here we go. We're coming for Scientology and Oprah.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do it. Nothing's not going near Scientology.

[Van Lathan]

Like I one time saw them people on Hollywood Boulevard, like recording people's faces. Y'all got it. Whatever y'all need. But.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you're of Oprah.

[Van Lathan]

Not. Not as much.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Not. Not as much because this. Because I love Oprah, but this was with love.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

We got to look. We have to look back at some of the decisions. Number one, Oz, Dr. Phil. Obviously, we took two huge Ls there correct. Crash the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. What was the guy that wrote the movie? Wrote the book. And he was on Oprah and the book was great.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, and he turned out to be a plagiarist.

[Van Lathan]

Turn out the guy didn't write the book.

[Joanna Robinson]

James Fred.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I think that somebody should do like an Oprah spreadsheet.

[Bill Simmons]

Ringer narrative pod.

[Van Lathan]

Ringer narrative pod.

[Bill Simmons]

Episode three, the Guy who Lied about His Book.

[Van Lathan]

A spreadsheet about the things that Oprah has put us on and whether or not it's actually been super dope.

[Bill Simmons]

You know What? You miss 100% of the shots.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you gonna call Oprah Lose free.

[Van Lathan]

There you go. Yeah, there you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Doesn't roll off the tongue, but we can workshop it.

[Bill Simmons]

That's an interesting title. I like it. Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't. Here's my question about Paul Haggis pitches this show, pitches this as a TV Show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What does Crash, the TV show, look like?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we found out they made it on Starz.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God. Dennis Hopper.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he died.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but what is it? But what?

[Van Lathan]

He died.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why the show got canceled.

[Joanna Robinson]

But what does it look like in the mid-2000s? Where is it airing?

[Van Lathan]

It's HBO.

[Joanna Robinson]

Showtime.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say Showtime. No, HBO Passes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Showtime's is a great. It's a great call.

[Bill Simmons]

HBO passes might be stars. Because it was on Stars.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's Showtime. I think you're right.

[Bill Simmons]

How about 10 years later? Is Crash? Where is it a Netflix.

[Van Lathan]

It's for sure Netflix.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the fourth show they make. So a couple other things. Terrence Howard, we mentioned, huge year. Bullock is in the movie for, like, less than 10 minutes, but was really.

[Joanna Robinson]

I remembered her being in it so much more. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's. I'm gonna. Before we get to the categories, who's the worst person in this movie?

[Joanna Robinson]

Ryan Phillippe.

[Bill Simmons]

Why? Why do you think?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's super miscast.

[Bill Simmons]

No, how about. I'm saying character, not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, worst character.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, he also does a murder. But, yeah, I mean, so it's not a bad pick. What about Fickner?

[Van Lathan]

I gotta be honest with you. That scene between Fickner and Cheadle, that is the one scene in the movie that overwhelmingly works to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I think the Tony Danza scene's good.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the Danza scene, I thought.

[Bill Simmons]

That was one of the most realistic scenes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the one that's closest to, like, an actual conversation that a human has had in their life.

[Van Lathan]

But either one of those things. Either one of those scenes. Like, I've literally been both of those black dudes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I've been the black dude where some white guys, like, sitting you down and he's telling you you just don't know when to take a win. Like, you need to do. You have to get a little dirty to get what you need to do. And I've also been to other guys. I fucking got fired for that. I also. I've been the guy where they're trying to tell you to ramp it up a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And you're like, don't tell me how to. But I didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

He cucked out. I apologize for that.

[Van Lathan]

You've never. Don't even play like that. Don't even play like that. Cause people will believe that.

[Joanna Robinson]

But in that first conversation, the one. The one that you said, the Cheetah Fichner conversation. When you had that conversation, did that person say to you black people, Am I right? Is that something that they said with their mouth to you?

[Van Lathan]

What? They don't. The. Obviously, they play the scene up a little bit. They don't say it like that, though. But what they do is they rap. They're trying to get to their end.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a shit sandwich as a gift that they're presenting you.

[Van Lathan]

They're trying to get to their end and they tell you, listen, you're not gonna be able to do what you wanna do by staying pure. You're gonna have to get dirty and play the optics of it.

[Bill Simmons]

This is how the world works.

[Van Lathan]

This is how it works.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. That conversation just not the way that it plays out inside of this movie.

[Van Lathan]

No. Cause he said all that to grab his attention, to rope him in and make him know that I'm shooting straight with him.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the worst character in the movie as a human being, as Sandra Bullock, it's completely unredeeming in every. There's not one redeeming thing. I was gonna bring that up later. Did she create the Karen character?

[Van Lathan]

But see, you could.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this the first Karen in the movie?

[Joanna Robinson]

I. Your most Karen adjacent member of the ringer staff. She's way worse than a Karen. Like a Karen. This is because the thing about a Karen is that it's sometimes subtle or insidious.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's. There's no subtlety here with this character. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

I still go for Matt Dillon, and I'll tell you why. Like, it's a good choice. So.

[Bill Simmons]

So argue it.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, guys, there's no bad options in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's true. With. With. With. They don't give Michael Pena any. He's got no red in his ledger.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's true.

[Van Lathan]

He's a. He's. He's the only character maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he's the answer to the other question, which is who's the best character in this?

[Joanna Robinson]

Easily, easily, easily, easily.

[Van Lathan]

Him. Easily him.

[Bill Simmons]

So they probably deleted a domestic violence scene with him or something. Or something like, I gotta make them not like him.

[Van Lathan]

But she gets traumatized early in the movie. And the thing about that is that, like, her fear gets validated. She's like. She's scared of the guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She's holding the purse, but at the.

[Van Lathan]

Same time, they actually robbed her. So the rest of the time that, like, she's freaking out about stuff, you're thinking, well, her instincts were right before. You could almost, like, argue it away as being. As her being.

[Bill Simmons]

Validated.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, validated a little bit. But with him, he literally is having issues in another area of his life. He's the nightmare police officer. He's the cop that's having a bad situation at home, that's having a bad day, that got stuck in traffic. And because of that, he kills or assaults you. Like he did save the lady at the end. And he is going through something with his father. But that's like the worst version of the fear that a lot of people have of the police.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think there's also. I mean, for me, it's because it's all systemic. The Brendan Fraser character and the Fichtner character and that whole, you know, office. Again, it's subtler, especially the Brendan Fraser character, who you could argue, if you're watching it, you think, well, he's close to a good guy. He doesn't want his wife to say racist shit inside of his house and stuff like that. But, like, no, there's. There's nastiness there, too. And the nastiness that's hidden, I think, is much scarier than her, you know, spewing it around the house.

[Van Lathan]

At the end, though, it looked like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brendan Frazier was, oh, he's definitely fucking.

[Van Lathan]

Her, getting it in. That's the type of shit that we talking about.

[Bill Simmons]

Deleted scene there.

[Van Lathan]

Definitely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yes.

[Van Lathan]

Nona gay. 100 miles an hour. Jesus. Where's known at?

[Bill Simmons]

I interviewed her at the Ali junket. I told you about that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. How'd that go?

[Bill Simmons]

She's unbelievable.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know why she wasn't a gigantic star. I don't really understand it.

[Van Lathan]

It seemed like she didn't want it.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think she did.

[Van Lathan]

Because there was. There's a moment here. There's this, the Matrix. I'm missing one.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, and Ali, she was one of the most beautiful actresses of that decade. Yeah, it felt like it was all sitting there for her.

[Van Lathan]

It kind of seemed like at the end, she just kind of. She wasn't into it, probably.

[Bill Simmons]

$6.5 million budget. Made 98.4 million. Lowest grossing film domestically to win Best Picture in 18 years. Last Emperor 1 Oscars for Picture Screenplay editing. Nominated for director Matt Dillon. And one more Roger Ebert. Here we go. We love Roger Ebert. Every once in a while, he misses the great ones. Miss Larry Bird missed a couple of game winners. Michael Jordan missed a couple game winners.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Four stars, best film of 05. Quote. Not many films have the possibility of making their audiences better people. I don't expect Crash to work any Miracles. But I believe anyone seeing it is likely to be moved to have a little more sympathy for people not like themselves.

[Van Lathan]

Give the context, though.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the context?

[Van Lathan]

Give the context about Raj. Why this movie might have touched him and affected him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, because of his wife?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You think that's it?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I think he watched. I think. I think that he watched the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

And what do you think she thought of the movie?

[Van Lathan]

She probably was like, raj, that shit sucks. But she was like. She was probably like, I don't want to hear no more about that. Get that movie out of here. But he probably felt like in a place where he's been probably judged and people have made a lot of decisions about him and his life because he's married to a black lady, he probably looked at the movie and went, huh, I get it. Because some of the shit that Raj has probably got probably came from the black community, which sometimes can be deified in conversations about race relations.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So a movie that paints everybody as a little fucked up, he probably was fucking with it a little bit. A little more than another critic would be.

[Bill Simmons]

After the Oscars. He said, as someone who felt Brokeback was a great film, but Crash a greater one. Yeah, I would have been pleased if either had won. And then he said about Crash, it's not a safe harbor, but a film that takes the discussion of racism in America in a direction it has not gone before in the movies, directing attention at those who congratulate themselves on not being racist, including liberals and or minority group members.

[Van Lathan]

See, they see. They like you. Right? And or minority group members. Raj was tired of people looking at him crazy at the NAACP Awards, and.

[Joanna Robinson]

He'S like, you're racist too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, same thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Coates called it the worst film of the decade in 2009. This was the first wave of the backlash. He said, I don't think there's a single human being in Crash. Arguments and propaganda violently bumping into each other, impressed with their own quirkiness. It's a kind of unthinking and curious, nihilistic multiculturalism. Nothing tempers my extremism more than watching a fellow liberal exhort the virtues of Crash. Then he just goes on and on and on, killing it. Let's get to the categories. What's the perfect age to see this movie exactly? I have 65.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I wrote 15 baby's first racism.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think? You're the tiebreaker. 15 or 65 for cash.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna go in the middle. I'm gonna go like 23.

[Bill Simmons]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, because I think that 23 is at the point where you could have. Which is the perfect response to Crash. It's called the 10 Minute Regret. Crash is a 10 minute regret movie. We've all seen it before, where you leave a movie and you go, shit, that shit was okay. Yeah, that shit was pretty good, man. I see what they was doing. And then on the drive home, by the time you make it home, you like, man, fuck that movie. Like, you know what I'm saying? By the time you make it home.

[Bill Simmons]

I like this.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've heard Van Drop this take on like, countless superhero movies.

[Van Lathan]

It happens all the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, you.

[Van Lathan]

You leave the theater and you're like, they did it. And then by the time you get home, you're like, man, that shit sucked. Like, and Crash is the perfect movie and the perfect time. At 23, 24. You think you know the world. You know just enough to know that what you saw is bullshit.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a cousin to the 10 minute take, which was my stepfather after we saw Godfather 3.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is the. I've just lost my leg because it got bit by a shark. But my dad is telling me it's okay we leave Godfather. He's like, no, no, it was okay. It was okay. It was good. There was some good stuff in there. I was like, I have a bloody stump for a right leg.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think seeing it when you're younger and thinking it's really saying something and then watching it again with your. When you're a little older.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Joe's right, but I think old people. Still the 65 and up crowd. Craig, what do you have?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I. I literally wrote down 72 year old rich white men. Because those are all the people that voted for this movie.

[Van Lathan]

The Oscars.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's so validating for every old rich white dude.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't wait for Craig's take later. Categories. Most rewatchable scene. Carjacking scene. It's a good scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

I say Pena and his daughter.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we're gonna list a bunch of them. You have Pena and the daughter, the locksmith scene. Both being just a bitch from hell, as poor Michael Pena's working on her door.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would like the locks changed again in the morning. And you know what? You might mention that we'd appreciate it if next time they didn't send a gang member.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you mean that kid in there?

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

The guy in there with the shaved head, the pants around his ass, the prison tattoo.

[Bill Simmons]

Those are not prison tattoos.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, really? And he's not gonna go sell our key to one of his gang banger friends the moment he is out our door. We've had a really tough night.

[Van Lathan]

I think it'd be best if you just went upstairs right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

And what, Wait for them to break in? I just had a gun pointed in my face. You lower your voice. And it was my fault because I knew it was gonna happen. But if a white person sees two black men walking. Walking towards her and she turns and walks in the other direction, she's a racist, Right? Well, I got scared and I didn't say anything. And 10 seconds later, I had a gun in my face. Now, I am telling you, your amigo in there is gonna sell our key to one of his homies. And this time, it'd be really great.

[Van Lathan]

If you acted like you actually gave a. This Michael Pena was going through it.

[Bill Simmons]

He really was. He's too easy for him.

[Van Lathan]

Like. Like two weeks. This is like two days.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's 24 hours.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Like it. So he. He literally catches two calls. One where he gets called a gang member when he's a loving, devoted father.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then the other one where he.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tries to tell the guy, like, yeah, fix your door.

[Van Lathan]

Fix your door. And the guy goes off on him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Murder him later on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The locksmith scene. Brendan Fraser not being able to tell difference between black and Iraqi. Kind of an underrated racist moment in the movie. He gets swallowed up by 28 other racist moments.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's a. He's a stealth winner there.

[Bill Simmons]

The Dylan Newton harassment scene. I don't. I don't know if rewatch was the right word, but it's a pretty affecting scene. Like, and I think Terrence Howard, she's really good. And Terrence Howard and her are both, like, fantastic in that scene. Terrence Howard's great in that scene. Like, the way his demeanor slowly changes. That's the confusing thing about this movie is the actors are really good in it.

[Van Lathan]

They all are. And they got top flight actors. I'll tell you something about this movie, though. Terrence Howard doubled up really well in this movie. I mean, in his career. Having DJ From Hustle and Flow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Come right after this was a gift. It was a gift that these movies were out at the same time. Because if not, this is the type of movie that could. Orlando Bloom, you from Troy. I don't think Orlando Bloom ever recovered from Troy because he was too much of a bitch. Okay, I'm sorry. Orlando Bloom was the man. And then in Troy, he was just such a bitch. That I think it really hurt him for years to come. And his character is so feckless in this movie that it's the kind of thing that can stain you, particularly with the community for a while.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting.

[Van Lathan]

But DJ Kind of got him back there because DJ Was a straight G.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm so confused, though, but he's throwing trash into a car fire at the end of the movie. Isn't that a. A show of strength and character growth?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He got his strength back.

[Van Lathan]

He never got it back.

[Bill Simmons]

Throwing. Throwing stuff in the fire.

[Van Lathan]

He never got it back. Brave roll, though. Seriously. Brave roll to take.

[Bill Simmons]

And he had a. A lot of issues, to say the least, in his personal life.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Certainly.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrence Howard.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If those issues don't happen, I think. I think we.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he's in the conversation happen. He's still roadie.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I think he would have been in a bunch of great stuff. I think it made him unhirable for a couple years there.

[Van Lathan]

Oh. I mean, I'll say this. He's had a fantastic career. Even still, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because I think this. When he started having his issues.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

At the time, he would have been drifting off these two movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's a testament to how talented he is, is that he kept getting hired after these things became obvious.

[Van Lathan]

Because think about it. Prisoners is after this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Empires after this.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like he. And he's back now. He's the world's smartest man. He's figuring out astrophysics and all kinds of shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was the first hired onto Iron man, the first actor, highest page, highest pay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A couple more. The Tony Danza scene. Have you noticed this is weird for.

[Joanna Robinson]

A white guy to say, but have you noticed he's talking a lot less black lately?

[Van Lathan]

No, I haven't noticed that. Really? Like, in this scene, he was supposed to say, don't be talking about that.

[Bill Simmons]

And he changed it to, don't talk.

[Van Lathan]

To me about that. Wait a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait a minute. You think because of that, the audience.

[Van Lathan]

Won'T recognize him as being a black man? Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there a problem, camp?

[Van Lathan]

Excuse me?

[Bill Simmons]

Is there a problem, camp? Terrence Howard. There was an oral history about this movie, and Terence Howard said about the Tony Danza scene. I remember Paul telling me about when he worked for a network, there were execs who told black jokes and his black colleagues had to just laugh along. He wondered what their lives were like and what it felt like to be ethnically neutered. Tony Danza, by the way, incredible stunt casting.

[Van Lathan]

Never.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he thought I could.

[Van Lathan]

See him like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Never before since his Danza done something like that. I think so.

[Bill Simmons]

No way. Yeah, he's pretty good in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's good.

[Bill Simmons]

I was kind of surprised. Dylan saves Newton. Just a really well filmed scene. It's absurd. I think if I'm her, I'd just rather die in the car.

[Joanna Robinson]

That scene makes me sick to watch, honestly.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really well done, though.

[Van Lathan]

I have a new category. I have the least rewatchable scenes. Eight of them. Least rewatchable scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

And that Terrence Howard getting carjacked and then fighting back would be the only other one I have.

[Van Lathan]

But see, so that's one of the more absurd scenes in the movie that kind of works like that.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't check the car. They don't. Nothing. It's like, okay, our bad.

[Van Lathan]

Like him sort of getting to the thing and he's in front of the cops. Because actually I've seen people that are just tired of taking shit make mistakes with the police like that to where they just. You're taking the wrong time with the wrong group of people to assert your manhood. I'm not gonna let you tell me to move. And all of that stuff, that kind of thing. Actually, they might have stumbled onto something that actually kind of happened.

[Bill Simmons]

So what do you have for the most rewatchable scene?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Michael Pena and his daughter.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the invisible cloak scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Band.

[Van Lathan]

I got Lichtner and Cheadle that. I watched that scene. Fichner. I'm sorry. Fichtner. Lichtner.

[Bill Simmons]

He's dealing with Ryan Phillipe.

[Van Lathan]

Ryan Phillipe.

[Joanna Robinson]

William Lechner.

[Van Lathan]

I have him and Cheadle. I actually watched that scene three times. I think that's a great scene. I think it's. I think Cheadle is great in the scene. I just think that's like a. That's actually a legitimately great movie scene to me.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I know all the sociological reasons why per capita 8 times more black men are incarcerated than white men. Schools are a disgrace. Lack of opportunity, Bias in the judicial system.

[Joanna Robinson]

All that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

All that stuff. But still, it's. It's gotta get to you on a gut level as a black man. They just can't keep their hands. Hands out of the cookie jar. I'm a Fichtner fan.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, he's in heat. Fickner doing voice only work in Mr. And Mrs. Smith is one of my, like, top tier stealth. Great performances.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 2005 thing about this movie? Joanna.

[Joanna Robinson]

The landline on Sandra Bullock. That she drops as she falls down the stairs.

[Bill Simmons]

Ooh, landlines.

[Van Lathan]

That's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

My dad still has a landline.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Won't give it up.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, does he? Yeah. Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

I have no camera phones. And unironic racism, huh?

[Joanna Robinson]

Unironic racism is an enduring legacy, Bill. But, yeah, no one filming any of this police stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. If they're doing this in 2025, somebody's filming something at some point. One of these scenes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Van.

[Van Lathan]

Smoking in Los Angeles. Oh, smoking in Los Angeles.

[Bill Simmons]

Happier times.

[Van Lathan]

Like, people just. He's like. He's just ripping cigs, going crazy. Smoking in Los Angeles. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage? The best. We mentioned Michael Pena. This is an important Michael Pena movie. It gets the train rolling for him. As a movie guy, I'm a huge fan of his. I actually wish he was in more stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

I was so fired up when he was in Landman. And then spoiler.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he was fired up.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he was literally fired up because they blew him up. Yeah. In one episode.

[Van Lathan]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What do you have for what stage of best anything?

[Van Lathan]

The mcu. A lot of MCU peeps in this. Oh, yeah. Two different roadies. Both roadies are double roadie. Double roadie. Michael Pena.

[Joanna Robinson]

Michael Pena.

[Van Lathan]

I think I wrote him down here. The dude who helped Iron man is the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the Persian guy.

[Van Lathan]

The Persian guy.

[Bill Simmons]

You're right.

[Van Lathan]

Who helped Iron Man.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, so he should win that guy award. I forgot that he was in that.

[Van Lathan]

There's another great. That guy. Yes. But like, the guy who helped Iron man and then in Michael Pena. Louise. So I'm looking at the movie, and I'm saying all of the MCU people that are. That are in the movie. The mcu.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for what stage? The best ending.

[Joanna Robinson]

Good indictment of the lapd top to bottom.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's aged nicely.

[Van Lathan]

You know something else about the movie that makes it very 2005. So the film is actually coming off the worst. Like, the criticizing the LAPD now is actually kind of trite. People don't actually do it as much as they used to. It's not a top of mind thing anymore. There's still obviously a lot to talk about, but this movie kind of buttons that up a little bit. Like the. The conversation around the lapd. The LAPD was by far the most notorious police department.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

In America. The 90s.

[Bill Simmons]

It was a 90s thing that I think people had forgotten about a little bit. And crash. Like we're bringing it back.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I will say critique of the health insurance industry.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good. What? First rewatchable. She's doing great.

[Van Lathan]

Rolling heat.

[Bill Simmons]

Really doing great. I have a what stage? The best. Because I didn't notice this until I watched this movie twice in six days. The very ending, when the car gets rear ended. That's Shaniqua.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Loretta Devine. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just for some reason didn't notice that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And the insurance guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's who. The insurance guy.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but who. But who is that though?

[Bill Simmons]

Shaniqua.

[Van Lathan]

I just never thought I'd hear you here.

[Joanna Robinson]

You say Shaniqua.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Character's name.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, I'm with it. Shaniqua.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaniqua.

[Van Lathan]

Put a little sauce on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't do that. Don't take the bait. Don't take the bait.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't take the man. I'm not taking your bait. I have Keith David, who I love in every movie.

[Van Lathan]

He pops in this one and just delivers. Yeah, and just delivers in that one scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say the cast as a wet stage. The best for me that's favorite scene is very good.

[Van Lathan]

But do you understand though that like if there's a. This guy is riding high, right. Because he just won an academy or he can do whatever he wants. There's a version of this movie that has more scenes like the Keith David scene. More scenes like the Figner scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's not as you're talking about highest riding high off of Million dollar.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. What I'm saying is like the movie loses itself in how important it actually thinks that it is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because that scene with him is a perfectly good scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Van Lathan]

Where a black man in authority is saying, you're not going to fuck this up for me. And it can be fucked up. This is what you're going to do. This is how we're going to work this around. Like that works.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's under. For me, that's under the umbrella of the LAPD indictment. Because there's like from Keith David to Ryan Philippe and everything in between, it's just like there's no good corner at the LAPD in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I have one more what stage the best. But you guys, if you have anything left, tell me now. No, I like when Sandra Bullock gets a little. Gets a little randy with her movie pics.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I like angry, angry, bitchy Sandra Bullock. Like she did it in a. The Blind side was like a totally different character for her. I liked her in. What's the movie when she Gets gravity. I just. I felt like she. Like when she saw of her with, like, rom coms versus her pushing herself to. And maybe Hollywood didn't take her seriously as, like, a serious actress, but I think she's a really good actress.

[Van Lathan]

Well, she won an Academy Award.

[Bill Simmons]

I know she did.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think she just got pigeonholed in this, like, Julia Roberts, Meg Ryan category for, like, almost two decades.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it finally kind of broke out of it a little bit late. But I was. I. I think she's really.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then she made All About Steve and changed it all around for herself.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, Steve. I'm pro Bullock is my point.

[Van Lathan]

I like her.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's say the best is Bullock.

[Van Lathan]

You know what the funny thing is? You just brought up gravity.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie's good.

[Joanna Robinson]

People don't talk about it.

[Van Lathan]

Neuralized. I completely forgot about how much I loved and enjoy great movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

People don't talk about it.

[Bill Simmons]

You'll be getting rewatched.

[Van Lathan]

Interstellar is talked about every six weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

Not on this podcast.

[Van Lathan]

Interstellar is fucking great.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever.

[Van Lathan]

You don't like Interstellar?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Van Lathan]

You don't like. Are you a Nolan guy? Hold on for a second. Just allow me 30 seconds of latitude.

[Bill Simmons]

I like gravity.

[Van Lathan]

I like gravity as well. But you don't with Interstellar at all.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I don't. Haven't watched it since the year it came out.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

You should rewatch it.

[Van Lathan]

You should rewatch it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's actually a really good rewatch ball. That one gets better every time you watch it.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's sit that one out.

[Van Lathan]

What.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What about Inception? Do you like Inception?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you don't like Christopher Nolan? Never mind. Move on.

[Bill Simmons]

Inception's too weird.

[Van Lathan]

You don't like.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't like Memento?

[Bill Simmons]

Love Momento.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You're a memento guy.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, so you're early Nolan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Dark Knight.

[Van Lathan]

That's kind of Nolan.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, I respect all the Nolan movies. I just like. I wouldn't, like, crank up. Oh, let me get an Inception on Blu Ray and crank this out. I think Inception's a polarizing movie, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So is Interstellar. Yeah, but they're all. I think they're all better the more you watch.

[Bill Simmons]

I might be wrong on Interstellar. I know I'm not wrong about Contact. That's the one where I'm like, that movie sucked. You'll never convince me otherwise. That movie was bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. Fichtner catching another stray.

[Van Lathan]

Contact, Jody Foster, the Carl Sagan joint about aliens and all of that stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

David Morse.

[Van Lathan]

Hey. One time.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode of the Rewatchables is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of reasons to celebrate. And now at the State Farm personal price Plan, you can keep celebrating when you create an affordable price just for you. When you choose to bundle home and auto. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor State Farm is there prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Back to the podcast.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love having a State Farm commercial on the crash episode. That's great stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Great shot. Gordo award most cinematic shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't have anything here. This is a ugly looking movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt Dillon pulling. Pulling Newton out of the car.

[Van Lathan]

We can. We can now. We can shoehorn that in. But this movie is so obviously low budget that they don't really.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a screenwriter tried to direct a movie. The one like Flare is the sort of like reverse zoom on Michael Pena when he's screaming because he thinks his daughter got shot.

[Bill Simmons]

Or I'm going to make Van reenact that later.

[Van Lathan]

Or maybe at the end of Ryan Philippe. Philippe.

[Bill Simmons]

Ryan Philippe and Philippe.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, like burning the car. Which. That shot him with the gloves.

[Joanna Robinson]

With taking the gloves off. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Signaling that what Matt Dillon said to him earlier in the movie has already come to pass. Just wait till you're on the job a little bit longer and interrupt him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wait a couple hours.

[Van Lathan]

Wait a couple hours. It happened that night.

[Bill Simmons]

Do we have a kid? Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award for best needle drop.

[Van Lathan]

There's no music in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. There's really no music. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a Stereophonics maybe tomorrow drop right at the end, which I like. But there's also. It was nominated for best original song. Kathleen York, who plays the cop early in the movie. She plays one of the cops early in the movie. Her song in the Deep plays and it is the most like we want to be Magnolia. Amy. Man. Moment.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

But no, but it's bad.

[Van Lathan]

But you win, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it. But it's terrible.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Chess, Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character names.

[Joanna Robinson]

Say it. Say it. Bill. Shaniqua. Definitely.

[Van Lathan]

There you go. There you go. Put a little sauce on that motherfucker.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shaniqua Johnson.

[Bill Simmons]

Van, you're up with the flex category. You get to pick any category. I knew you were going to screw this up.

[Van Lathan]

Any category. I have my own category.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay, but you want to use your own category here?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, right here.

[Bill Simmons]

Go ahead. Let's hear it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. This is an all time We Solve Racism movie. And I gave the top five We Solved Racism Movies of All time. I put it in here.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. So I gotta figure out what the category name of this is. Vans Van's Historical.

[Van Lathan]

Go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

The Van Lathan Historical Takeaway.

[Van Lathan]

The Van Impact.

[Joanna Robinson]

Historical Impact.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Top five. We Solve Racist Movies. Top five, White People Solve Racist Moves. At number five, the Blind side. That's where racism loses to athleticism. At number four, a Time to Kill. Blacks Deserve Revenge.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you just doing Sandra Bullock movies?

[Van Lathan]

No, I mean, they're all. She's been in a lot of them. Number three, we're All Racist. And it's beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Number two, the Help or How White Women Will Save Us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Number one, Driving Miss Daisy. How Elderly Sexual Tension Makes a Cool Oreo Swirl.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an amazing list.

[Van Lathan]

That's it. Stop.

[Bill Simmons]

I really wanted Miss Daisy to be number one and then disappoint.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I was really hoping the Help would be on there. That's what I was really getting for.

[Van Lathan]

Are two movies that after the screenwriters or the playwright finished writing the movie, they went, yeah, I did it. We've done it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the Help is another one where it's an absurd movie, but the actors are pretty good in the movie. You feel bad because there's good scenes. It's like this one.

[Van Lathan]

Ridiculous.

[Bill Simmons]

It was shit. Emma Stone's like, really killing it in this.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was working in a bookstore when that book came out. And this woman that I worked with, who was in her, like, 60s or 70s, who worked at the store with me, hated the book so much and. But people were coming in. White women were coming in by the droves to buy the Help. And she was like, oh, the hep. You want to get the hep? You just call it the hep. Like, to their faces. And they, like, they thought they were mishearing her because she was this older woman and she could just get away with it. Is great.

[Bill Simmons]

The Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. This is tough to narrow it down. I have the Persian shop owner because I still have no idea what's going on in that character and what his arc was in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

This is a 911 commentary.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he doesn't realize he has a gun with blanks. Even though the box says blanks.

[Joanna Robinson]

He can't read English.

[Van Lathan]

He can't read English.

[Bill Simmons]

It says blanks.

[Joanna Robinson]

He can't read English.

[Van Lathan]

She says that earlier in the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, he can't read his insurance policy. He doesn't read English.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And his wife is Deanna Troy from Star Trek. I just need to.

[Bill Simmons]

But don't. Don't the blank box even say, like, blanks, where it explodes and there's nothing there? No.

[Van Lathan]

What do you.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, There's a cartoon of, like, it's very clear that there's no bullets.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just not on. I mean, I didn't see any cartoons on this particular box.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he shoots a little girl with blanks. And then everyone's like, okay, we're gonna go inside now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, what do you. If there's a madman. If there's a madman on the street with a gun, let's say they just.

[Bill Simmons]

Went back in the house. Who wanted some cereal?

[Van Lathan]

He.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, they might have called the cops. You don't know what they did when they got there.

[Van Lathan]

It don't look like they called.

[Bill Simmons]

Honey, you want a pop Tart?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it.

[Bill Simmons]

Everybody is.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, you guys want to watch a movie?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Christmas, too. This is a Christmas movie.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, it sure is.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's wreaths and Christmas trees everywhere.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then it's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Could he understand English or. He couldn't.

[Van Lathan]

He could understand it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He couldn't read it, speak it poorly. And he could not read it because.

[Bill Simmons]

Pena is like, you need a new door. Fix the lock. You need a new door. And the guy's like, you're trying to.

[Van Lathan]

But the language barrier, he's. He's functional enough to be able to run a store, but the language barrier is part of the social dysfunction that's stopping them from understanding.

[Bill Simmons]

But if he's so dysfunctional that he can't understand he needs a new door. How does he run a store? Like, they make it so that he literally can't understand anything. But, yeah, we're expected to believe he's working 40 hours a week running a.

[Van Lathan]

Store, but we gotta. We can't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

He thought an angel saved him. This character sucked. What do you have, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's good old Philippe. Ryan Phillipe. I think that. I think a. It's miscast.

[Bill Simmons]

There's an amazing casting. What if for this. That we won't say now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree, and it would be a lot better with that. But I think he's miscast because Ryan Philippe has. Ryan. I'm just saying it wrong now. Ryan Philippe has a face that I don't trust ever. I've never.

[Bill Simmons]

You want him in cruel intentions.

[Joanna Robinson]

I Want him in Cruel Intentions. I don't want him as like a. Oh no, not him. He. He shot someone. Which is sort of what you're supposed to feel in this moment. And. And then the turn from that character is.

[Van Lathan]

Doesn't make any sense.

[Joanna Robinson]

Makes no sense. You need a beat between or you need to see him visibly shaken from the interaction with Taryn or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no, there's really no wrong choices with the butcher's girlfriend.

[Van Lathan]

Honestly. Honestly, it pains me to say this. It's Lorenz Tate. He's miscast. He's totally miscast. He's playing this so wide eyed because he's trying to seem like he's younger. But we know him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And we know that like he's more senior than this. We remember young Lorenz Tate. We remember if the O Dog era. Lorenz Tate. They tried to recast O Dog. It makes a lot of sense. He just doesn't. Paul Haggis.

[Bill Simmons]

The Wire's right there. Just grab. You have 20 different good actors.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Actually you know what's funny is J.D. walker who plays Bodhi in the Wire.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Would have been perfect in that role.

[Bill Simmons]

They could have had Omar could have been. I mean they could have picked anybody.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst. Sandra Bug Falling down the Stairs. This movie won for best editing. I encourage people to if they watch this after to watch how bad the editing. It's honestly like if we made like a Spotify movie about the ringer and we just like did a quick cut to try to. It's so bad. They must have run out of money for that scene. Two movies named Crash in eight years is just weird. I don't. I think there should be a rule if I was the movies are. You get a title, you at least get 20 years with the 20 for the next one. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

How good or watched does the movie have to be in order to.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it has to make like at least like $5 million.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Did you see the other crash 96 crash.

[Bill Simmons]

I saw it in the movie theater. That was weird.

[Van Lathan]

Let me tell you something.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie gets after it.

[Van Lathan]

That, that movie gets after it. I remember I had to see it. I remember going to Buffalo video Baker, LA and like and, and renting that movie. And a lady at the, at the front going, judging you son. That is a weird movie. And I still had to see it.

[Bill Simmons]

He has sex. J. Spader has sex with the cut in her leg.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

We pitched. We saw pitched in this text exchange. James Spader freak era. Rewatchable series.

[Bill Simmons]

Rewatchables went through Spader.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know the other Crash? Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Craig.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

Craig. You got to get dirty.

[Bill Simmons]

That is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know what? So we already did 8 millimeter. What we should have done was Fucked up Movie month. Yeah, we should have done eight Crash too.

[Bill Simmons]

Fucked up, dog.

[Van Lathan]

That's a. That. That's one that deserves a.

[Bill Simmons]

We should just done Crash month. There are two other movies named Crash.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I bet there are.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna start taking clips from Crash and just putting them on my Twitter without any context. I am. That's a crazy.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the new cowboy hat.

[Bill Simmons]

You should have done that after the Luka Doncic trade. You should just start clips of Crash. What do you have for what stage is worse?

[Joanna Robinson]

Joe, the Matt Dillon hero.

[Van Lathan]

Easy turn, easy work. Easy work.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Matt Dillon stuff and the fact that he's then the only actor nominated for this movie. Do you. Have you seen that clip? The.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there's a reason for that, though, because Howard, that they wanted to push him for Hustle and Flow, and I think Howard would have gotten nominated over the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. But there's a lot of other great options. That's not Matt Dillon. There's this clip that comes around to me every so often of Aubrey Plaza hosting the ND Spirits Award when blackkklansman came out, and she was like, adam Driver, congrats on being the only actor nominated for BlackKklansman. You're the best one in this movie. And that's what I thought. That's. That's what I thought when I saw Matt Dylan was the only actor nominated for Crash.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm surprised Newton didn't get nominated, actually, because I thought she was excellent.

[Joanna Robinson]

The image of this movie. The image of this movie is her clinging to him.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

After the Crash.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. Yeah, for sure. They played that up and made more.

[Bill Simmons]

Would say it's the worst in la. We're trapped behind metal and glass. You got to crash into someone to feel something. Joanna's like, Joanna might move here. This movie's gonna get in her head.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I tell you when I move here now? When I first moved to San Francisco, I. I was walking down the street. This is like, right after this movie came out and this guy. And this is going to sound unreal because I recently said on a different podcast about an Inception pickup line that a guy tried on me, but I bumped into this guy, and he's like, let's crash into each other. Like the movie. And I was just like. Like, literally, wow, that is the thing that has happened to me.

[Bill Simmons]

San Francisco's freaky. Freaky, freaky, freaky for like.

[Van Lathan]

You mean freaks.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's since the 60s.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Going for weird freaky place.

[Van Lathan]

Said something like that. He probably was a vampire.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think he was talking about this movie or do you think he was talking about the James movie?

[Van Lathan]

It could have been either. Could have been because it's a car crash situation.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, More what stage the worst. Cheeto calls his girlfriend Mexican. And she responds by saying angrily, my mother's from Puerto Rico. My father's from El Salvador. And then he responds by saying, why do all of your people park their cars and their lawns? Yeah, that's an actual exchange.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it's because everyone's racist, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

That was where they're don't like Don Cheadle too much. She's got this side too. They're just trying to everything slide that in there.

[Van Lathan]

Cyborg. Can I just throw something in in the movie that also really works? The whole thing with Don Cheadle and his brother and his mother, that's effective. Yeah, like that actually is effective. How she has the one upstanding son, but for some reason, I don't know how many times you see this, they gravitate towards the fuck up son and try to like protect him and the whole.

[Bill Simmons]

But she's projecting. The didn't turn out well for the son and it was her fault, but she wants to blame the brother.

[Van Lathan]

All that stuff where she goes, I know it's your fault, blah, blah, blah.

[Bill Simmons]

See, Dan's talking himself into this movie.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not keep.

[Joanna Robinson]

You keep compiling the can, the canvas, Whole foods bags.

[Van Lathan]

The canvas, Whole foods bags, all of that stuff. I'm just saying that the movie actually has some talent in it. It just. It falls under the weight of itself.

[Bill Simmons]

What else do you have, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's it.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. The Ruffalo hand and Ruben Eck Partridge overacting award.

[Van Lathan]

Ooh, this is a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

I hate to give it to Michael Pena, but the ten second scream.

[Joanna Robinson]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

What is happening? Why is it so long? It's just weird.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it actually works on him in a way. Unfortunately doesn't work for the wife character who we literally don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because she gets a really long, like. No, like a platoon.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not. Not his fault. It's the editing.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, that wife character. I don't know the actress's name. That's a classic, that girl.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I don't even know what her name is.

[Van Lathan]

But 8187, I think stand to deliver, maybe Dangerous Minds, a bunch of different movies.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for that category?

[Joanna Robinson]

Van's gonna get mad at me.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Joanna Robinson]

But I think it's Beverly Todd as Mrs. Waters as Don Toodle's mom.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

You're gonna get mad at me. I think it's how you say her name. Thandui Tandooey Newton. It's Tandui Newton. The scene. The scene where she's crying and telling him that he lost his dignity in the thing. She has a cry thing that she does.

[Bill Simmons]

She's supposed to be drunk, I think is part of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you talking about the one where she comes to his.

[Van Lathan]

Well, she comes to his job.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, after.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. I don't like that scene. Yeah, I think the bedroom fight is good.

[Van Lathan]

The bedroom fight is good. But she has a cry thing that she does.

[Bill Simmons]

Her.

[Van Lathan]

Like, her cry is like overpowered, ugly cry. Ugly cry that she does.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe, you have a flex category. What do you got?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I sent you 40 options in honor of House of R. I'm stealing the Mallory Rubin award. Did this movie need a better or an additional sex scene?

[Bill Simmons]

That's so great. So I'm sure be so pleased.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm gonna say we deserve to see Brendan Fraser, Nona Gay, have sex. Yeah, when Cinder Bullock calls him hard.

[Bill Simmons]

Off in this movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, when Cinder Bullock calls him at the end hard R. Be careful.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like borderline, you know, that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Was something I never knew was a thing.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Hard R. I heard somebody say hard R for movies.

[Van Lathan]

What are you saying?

[Craig Horlbeck]

You can't make it up.

[Van Lathan]

But if you say hard R in a movie that's about race, I agree.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I just didn't know hard R was ever a way to describe an R rated movie.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting. Soft R. Hard R. Soft R. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't know that.

[Bill Simmons]

So. So you just want him to knock some boots?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I just think when Sarah Bullock calls at the end and she's like, I fell down. And he's like, your friend's a bitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

He should have been having sex with her. Rather just like glancing at her at the elevator.

[Van Lathan]

And, you know, if they cut in, I don't want to direct the scene. But if they cut to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you do.

[Van Lathan]

Like in the middle and he's all. He's out of breath. He grabs the phone. Huh.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I'm saying.

[Van Lathan]

Like in the Wire or in any of these.

[Bill Simmons]

Or they do the eternal affairs where it's. It starts with him and it pans out back. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then you find out that he's having sex.

[Bill Simmons]

Good one. Mal would have been honored. The. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest Take award. I already gave mine. I think Bulk's character was the original Karen. You guys disagreed. Did you have a hottest take for this?

[Van Lathan]

No, she's the.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's the first Karen. I think it's like the Neil Armstrong of Karen's.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think there's a really good short film in here that's just the ludicrous scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

Chris Bridges, our guy, gave it back to Oprah, edited it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

I heard from him again, just put together the Ludacris monologues and I would rewatch. That's rewatchable.

[Bill Simmons]

He's good.

[Van Lathan]

They could have. The movie needed more Ludacris for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have a hottest take or keep booming?

[Van Lathan]

My only hottest take is this is the least effective anti slavery movie I've ever seen. Okay. At the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Certainly not hot at the end.

[Van Lathan]

Then he literally frees slaves. He literally frees slaves. He gives them $40. 40. No, Mule and a mule.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

He gives him $40. $40 he gives him. Tells him he's completely racist to them. And at the end, you don't really feel good about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You see a guy sink down, like, on the street, and you're like, he's just gonna stay there.

[Van Lathan]

He's gonna stay there. He's gonna be there in perpetuity.

[Bill Simmons]

Were they trying to say something with one of them? Goes into a video store and sees all the choices for movies. Is that, like, hitting us?

[Joanna Robinson]

The ability to transport and change us, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's looking at all the mcu, where it's going, casting, what ifs. Yeah, Couple good ones. Forest Whitaker was supposed to play the Terrence Howard role, but the filming got delayed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought of the Cheetah role. Is the Howard role.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Terrence Howard, but it's just one of them. Cusack was attached to Matt Dillon had to drop out. And then the big one is Heath Ledger was supposed to be Ryan Felipe and dropped out. And this is kind of a different movie if he's in it because, I.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mean, he makes that mountain instead. So good for him. But yeah, I think Heath Ledger. I mean, I actually have different casting ideas for that role, but I think Heath Ledger is a huge improvement in the Ryan Phillippe role. That character still needs one more scene at least to get where he gets.

[Bill Simmons]

Could it be like a monster's ball Cop Heath Ledger performance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. Monsters ball. Haven't thought about that in a long time.

[Van Lathan]

I like Josh Hartnett.

[Bill Simmons]

Not on the rewatchable list.

[Van Lathan]

Well, there are certain reasons why it's rewatchable, but that's on the. Josh Hartnett could have played that young cop. You know what? When you said the John Cusack thing, he should have done it.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, Cusack in the Dylan roll would have been great.

[Van Lathan]

It would have been fantastic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Genuinely great.

[Van Lathan]

Like legitimately great. I don't know that I've ever seen play a role like that. Like I.

[Bill Simmons]

He's tried to be bad guys a couple times in a D.C. but not that kind.

[Van Lathan]

I think seeing him like that would have been. Would have been super awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Cusack would have been. I think of those three, Heath Ledger is like sort of the big one, but I think C. Cusack is the stealth. This would have been a much better movie with Cusack in the Matt Dylan role.

[Bill Simmons]

So best. That guy. It's the guy from Iron Man. That's a great one.

[Van Lathan]

You know who I have? Who else did you have Jack McGee.

[Joanna Robinson]

As the gun store? That's mine.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I looked at his cv. This guy usually plays cops and here are some of his character names that he's played. Detective, sheriff, deputy, the chief. There's so many roles he's played that is just like the name of the rank of the police officer.

[Van Lathan]

I remember him from Scrooged.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

You can barely see them nipples.

[Joanna Robinson]

Scrooge is my favorite Christmas movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You could better see them nipples.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Fishner used to be that guy but then he became fitner.

[Van Lathan]

He did too much good work.

[Joanna Robinson]

Keith David was also with that guy.

[Van Lathan]

For a long time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There. It's probably somewhere in the 90s it flipped.

[Van Lathan]

I think it changed with something about Mary. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Dan Waiter's award. Jennifer Esposito is eligible probably.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's great in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, she is.

[Bill Simmons]

I always liked her. I never understood why they just didn't.

[Van Lathan]

Have anything for her to do.

[Bill Simmons]

I always felt like there was a better career for her.

[Van Lathan]

She. They just didn't have enough for her to do every time. She's. She's obviously gorgeous. She's talented. Yeah. She's. They just didn't have enough for. She's dope. Like there was no series for. There were. There were not a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

There was like a feisty police woman series that she should have been on CBS for eight years.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not too late for Jennifer Esposito.

[Bill Simmons]

It could have been like, whatever. That when they started spinning off CSI Miami, all those. It could have been like CSI wherever and just she's the lead. Dan Waiters. One more. The guy who runs the chop shop. Do you want to forget him?

[Joanna Robinson]

When he says he's my pick and when he says, do I look like I want to be on the Discovery Channel?

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Loved it. Love that guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

And also, I would say the woman at the locksmiths who, like, will not give up Michael Pena's name, who's just like, smoking and over it and slouching in her chair and wearing all the eyeliner. I really liked her too.

[Van Lathan]

I was trying to remember the relationship that Jennifer Esposito was in.

[Bill Simmons]

Eddie Murphy. Right early.

[Van Lathan]

No, she was married to Bradley Cooper.

[Bill Simmons]

But she dated Eddie Murphy in, like, the 80s.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, did she?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting. I didn't know that. Bradley Cooper. Bradley Cooper 2006.

[Joanna Robinson]

A lot of choices for Bradley Cooper.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director City. Joe has something for.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. On the Ryan Philippe role.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Matt Damon.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh. Almost like Departed type of character.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Departed.

[Van Lathan]

Is he too old?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, he's the exact same age as Ryan Philippe. I looked up actors. That was the same age as Ryan Phillip. He's the exact same age. This is the year he made Euro Trip and Ocean's twelve.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's available.

[Joanna Robinson]

Euro Trip. Greatest candy of all time. Also, additionally, Toby Maguire. Casey Affleck.

[Bill Simmons]

Casey Affleck would have been Casey Apple. That's a good one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I think Josh Hartnett works too, but Casey Affleck works.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think Josh Hartnett is good.

[Van Lathan]

Enough as an actor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not at that. I like late, Late stage Hartnett.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a director for the recasting. Quentin Tarantino's crash would have been unbelievable.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, brother. N words, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

3 hours and 30 minutes. It would have been amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

You just wanted to see Sandy's feet more than when she fell down the stairs.

[Van Lathan]

This movie would have gone down the inward path, bro. He can't do it, dog. Spike Lee's crash would have been interesting because then Spike Lee's crash. A lot of crane shots. You know what I mean? Of people, you know. But Quentin Tarantino's crash is Spike Lee's crash.

[Bill Simmons]

Noting gay is having sex with Brendan Fraser.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I'm saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably in the first 20 minutes.

[Van Lathan]

Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you for not doing. I recast Crash in Boston. Doing. I was dreading that monologue. Thank you for not doing it. We're just going to keep moving Crash is Boston. No, I'm not letting you do it.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Moving on. Half ass Internet research. Crash. First best picture winner to be released on blu Ray.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

June 2006.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fun fact.

[Bill Simmons]

Haggis had a heart attack during the last part of the filming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Missed a week.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was like, it's just so good. Yeah, I'm just making my master.

[Bill Simmons]

We need this movie needs me.

[Van Lathan]

People have to see this.

[Bill Simmons]

In 2015. Hollywood Reporter. They found a bunch of the Oscar voters and asked, what would you do if you had to do this over again? Brokeback Mountain won convincingly. And then I didn't really understand how this went. I'm just going to read what's written down. Newton wore special protective underwear for the assault scene because Haggis wanted it to look real from the camera's perspective for Matt Dillon to go there. I'm gonna guess no intimacy coordinator in this movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's a wild stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

What is that? What kind of underwear?

[Joanna Robinson]

What special is that underwear? Right? Like, are we. Is it like.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what to make.

[Van Lathan]

Well, they have like the modesty stuff that they wear, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but he's like, real. Like, he's. Yeah, he's really up in there.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You have anything else?

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you envisioning, like the metal chastity belt from Robin Hood? Men in tits.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait a minute.

[Van Lathan]

No, I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh. That wasn't funny that Joe said that. But when she said, he's really up in there.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was.

[Van Lathan]

I tried audience of three watchables.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm like, how protective can that underwear be? What does she like?

[Bill Simmons]

It would almost have to be like a. Like an adult diaper with like seven different panties.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it has to be like the metal chastity belt from Robin Hood. Men in tights. Like, I think you need something. A barrier.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, shit.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll just keep reading stuff until you tell me if it was anybody's Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Sandra Bullock, Brandon Frazier. LA Race relations. Undercover cops shooting each other. Terrence Howard. There's a case because Hustle and Flow came out the same year.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, well, that moment. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

2005. This is Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

This is Apex Mountain.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Empire season one.

[Van Lathan]

That's pretty. He was pretty big. He was a big star on tv. Yeah, maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Yay.

[Van Lathan]

So, yeah, it's pretty big.

[Bill Simmons]

But bigger than Hudson Flow.

[Van Lathan]

Best actor nomination. Hustle and Flow is pretty tough to beat.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt Dylan. No St. Christopher statues. I don't have a lot of experience human trafficking probably Not Don Cheadle. No. Michael Pena? No. Ran Philippe Felipe.

[Van Lathan]

What would be his Apex?

[Bill Simmons]

Mile? Thanue Newton.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

What is her apex mode?

[Joanna Robinson]

Westworld.

[Bill Simmons]

That wasn't she in the first Mission Impossible movie. Or one of them.

[Van Lathan]

It's Mission Impossible 2.

[Bill Simmons]

2.

[Joanna Robinson]

The worst one.

[Bill Simmons]

Lorenz Tate. No. Ludacris. It's one of the fast movies. I don't know which one. It's Paul Haggis's Jennifer Esposito.

[Van Lathan]

No, no. It's Paul Haggis. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Paul Haggis. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Church of Scientology's influence. Apex Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

One more break and then we're gonna do Cruiser Hanks. Cruz or Hanks. And what role would you want them to play in this movie?

[Van Lathan]

If you pick Hanks Kills as Brendan Fraser's character Kills. Would love to see Hanks in that morally gray. If you have Hanks, you got to have the sex scene. Would love to see Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Ever had sex in a movie other than Forrest Gump? I can't bet that never happened on that quest.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, got Hanks Kills in that role.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I test drive Tom Cruise and the Matt Dillon character for you guys?

[Joanna Robinson]

I want Cruise in this because if we're doing Magnolia methadone, we might as well go all the way. And also think you need cokier energy in this LA movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Cruise helping out the dad. You get the Magnolia angle yet again with like Tom Cruise's weird dad issues, but then angry, like evil. Tom Cruise is the cop, but then Tom Cruise trying to save somebody from a fire. I mean, my vote's Cruise.

[Joanna Robinson]

I say Cruz.

[Van Lathan]

Is this the rare movie where you could put Cruz and Hanks in it together?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you probably could. Hanks could be Brandon Hanks, but that's.

[Joanna Robinson]

The first time in his career. Hanks doesn't belong here. I don't think.

[Van Lathan]

You don't think so?

[Bill Simmons]

Craig Cruz.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I like Cruz in this. I. This movie is kind of like a Magnolia type movie. You could even just get Cruise's character from Magnolia, jam him into this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you could also put Frankie Fickner character. Just have him come in for.

[Joanna Robinson]

If it's. If it's a church Scientology joint, why not invite Tom?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Where was it true? How is he not in this.

[Van Lathan]

Can I say something about the Cruise thing, though? He works in Magnolia, but then there are other, like big ensemble one scene movies where he doesn't work. Like he totally ruined Lions for Lambs. Like he was terrible in that.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie kind of sucks, that movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's not the reason there were Other reasons, too.

[Van Lathan]

That was a great script. I read that script and thought that movie was going to win 10 ounces.

[Bill Simmons]

We forgot to do Apex Mountain for Church of Scientology. I. I think 2005 Haggis wins the Oscar. Cruz is jumping on Oprah's couch.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Oprah's couch. Cruise the jump.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lose free Oprah. Lose free.

[Van Lathan]

Another Oprah mistake. Just to let you know. Soft launch.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that Oprah's fault, though?

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying. She was part of the hard launch of that whole deal. Yeah, another mistake. By the way, anytime the Scientology thing is mentioned, just black my face.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg?

[Joanna Robinson]

Martin Scorsese, of course.

[Van Lathan]

This is great.

[Bill Simmons]

This is a movie Spielberg would have tried to take on, though.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he easily could have. I could see him doing it. Yeah, well, edgy for him, but that's the thing. It's like, safe edgy, but yeah, Scorsese's the answer. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

[Van Lathan]

Who won best actor this year, too?

[Joanna Robinson]

He did for Capote.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd throw him in the Matt Dillon role as well. I think he'd do it. I'd like to see evil cop show up. Seymour Hoffman.

[Van Lathan]

Let me tell you something, though. If he's in it, the redemption part doesn't work as well because he's gonna play. It's gonna be.

[Bill Simmons]

Was Matt Dillon actually redeemed in this movie? I guess we can talk about it later.

[Joanna Robinson]

But the movie thinks he is.

[Van Lathan]

The movie thinks he is. But if he. If he's in the role, Philip Seymour Hoffman is going to be so loathful, and he's going to play it so well.

[Bill Simmons]

It'd be funny if he played it like talented Mr. Ripley. Freddie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

How's it peeping? Tommy.

[Van Lathan]

Tommy.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think in the Fickner role in his, like, Charlie Wilson's war mode.

[Bill Simmons]

Just coming in hot. The Van Lathan award. Did this movie need more black people?

[Van Lathan]

Perfect. Nope, we're good.

[Bill Simmons]

Picking knits. Can't wait. Wow. Where do you begin?

[Joanna Robinson]

I just wrote, oh, God. All of them. Like, I don't know how you pick knits inside of this movie. What are your top 10?

[Bill Simmons]

So both just. I. I know she's a horrible person, but you just start screaming with the locksmith, like, 40ft away.

[Van Lathan]

She's mad.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody does that.

[Van Lathan]

She's angry.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nobody does anything that they do.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody ever do that.

[Joanna Robinson]

There are no human being behaviors in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt Dillon runs into thandui Newton twice in, like, three days.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And Ryan, he wrecks her and then.

[Bill Simmons]

Then it just happens to be there.

[Van Lathan]

In Los Angeles, Ryan Philippe runs into Terrence Howard. I have that. Later, Ryan Philippe happens to pick up Don Cheadle's brother.

[Bill Simmons]

LA is a gigantic city.

[Van Lathan]

It. You could literally go.

[Bill Simmons]

You could go 10 years without like.

[Van Lathan]

How many times did you ever, by the way? The only time I ever run into somebody I know is when I random see you walking down the street.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's easy.

[Van Lathan]

I'm walking everywhere. We're sitting down and my. My brother goes, yo, was that your. I said, yeah. He just. He walks, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's on a zoom.

[Van Lathan]

But. But you could literally go 10 years without like randomly running into somebody if you're not at a function, just like out somewhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

But that's the disease of this kind of movie. The vignette. Everything's connected movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The, like fable has only really worked once. Magnolia, I guess twice.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then what's the other one?

[Bill Simmons]

Playing by Heart with Angelina Jolie. That movie's awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

No one knows about that movie except for me, Ryan Phillips, Dennis. Crazy, that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It all comes together in the end. It's like, whoa, they all know each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gina Rollins.

[Van Lathan]

Great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gina Rollins, 27 years old. There's a monologue about dancing, about architecture.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Jon Stewart's in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Literally. I don't know anyone else who's ever saw it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just been me and Joe and Rewatchable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rewatchable is playing my heart. Let's do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Wouldn't Matt Dillon just let her die.

[Van Lathan]

In the car in real life? Probably. But remember, he's.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, oh, shit. This is the lady who could probably get me kicked off the force. And in a five year lawsuit, I should just kind of let her go.

[Van Lathan]

There's another version of this movie where he runs up to her and he sees her.

[Joanna Robinson]

He looks around and he like, drops a cigarette. Yeah, drops the match.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. That's honestly. Better movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

A better movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, better movie.

[Van Lathan]

She's catching. She's like, he's just walking away.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's a better movie.

[Bill Simmons]

So when Terrence Howard gets carjacked and drives off and the cops see something happening, right? And then they decide what. Something's happened to the car. They chase it, chase it to this driveway where he's driving radically. They don't walk toward the car. They don't check out, make sure nobody else is in the car.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, Luda is slouching.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I'm just.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just. How police work goes.

[Van Lathan]

It's a felony stop. At that point, you're so. On a felony stop.

[Bill Simmons]

You're at least putting him in handcuffs for two minutes. And you're at least checking to see if anyone else is in the car.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no, you're talking about after.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, when they have them. You know, when Ryan.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Ludacris is slouching in the front.

[Bill Simmons]

Seat, they're checking the car.

[Van Lathan]

Well, hold on.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Ryan Phillippe's like, let's just walk away from the car.

[Van Lathan]

At the beginning of it, you're not checking the car.

[Bill Simmons]

These guys are policemen.

[Van Lathan]

At the beginning of it, you're not checking the car. You're on a felony stop. You have to neutralize him first. You ever been. You haven't, obviously.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm saying once they neutralize him, you're still checking the car.

[Van Lathan]

You're gonna go check the car. But they hadn't ever really neutralized him because he was still walking.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an absurd scene.

[Van Lathan]

He was advancing towards them. So, like, they're gonna be like. They go, get out the car. Get out the car. Get out the car. You get out the car. But whatever. Whatever. But, like, they're gonna deal with him first before they go check the.

[Joanna Robinson]

He wouldn't even sit down on the curb. They weren't doing anything.

[Bill Simmons]

Don Cheadle gets into a car accident right where his brother had just been killed. What are the odds of that? Like one in a kajillion.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he. He was supposed to show up to that scene and get to the car accident while he's on there. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The white van just has keys in it for 12 hours. Nobody just takes it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

The chop shop guy knew exactly what to do in an unexpected human trafficking situation.

[Van Lathan]

How to sell people.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not his first rodeo. Not gotta be.

[Van Lathan]

He's a real human being, I would think.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on, I'm gonna call Al.

[Van Lathan]

Wait a minute.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, first of all, they're tired. Cambodian. Secondly.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he knows the whole deal. I would think that he would be like. I mean, he didn't want the heat of the blood spatter from earlier, but he wants the heat of selling.

[Bill Simmons]

But trapping sounds great.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So I would think he'd have been even more freaked out. But he wasn't. He got all fucking.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he knows. He knows what he's doing.

[Van Lathan]

Tommy Jefferson with this shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Secretly the most evil people on the planet. That's one of the lessons from Crash.

[Van Lathan]

They're actually supposed to be kind of cool.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I thought.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Any other nitpicks no, just the whole.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie, sequel, prequel, prestige tv, all black cast or Untouchable. We mentioned earlier it became a stars TV show in 2008. I think there's a prestige version of this show that you could try to make. I wouldn't want to watch it, but I think it makes more sense in that context than a movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's untouchable, but not the way you usually use untouchable on this show.

[Bill Simmons]

True.

[Van Lathan]

You could orient.

[Bill Simmons]

It's touchable.

[Van Lathan]

It's touchable. You could orient a prestige show around the case that Don Cheadle was on, right? Yeah, around that case. Like with the Dirty cop and the whole deal and the machinations within, like City Hall. And then it could spread out from there, then to the da, Then to his son, dentist, brother.

[Bill Simmons]

We'd have to be a black showrunner.

[Joanna Robinson]

The sequel to this is the Hunt for Ryan Philippe, Right? Is Ryan Philippe going back to work? He burned his car. Is he going to go back to work? He's going back to work, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He's got to go back to work.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Don Cheadle's looking for the murderer of his brother who is on the force.

[Van Lathan]

All of that. That's part of the show.

[Bill Simmons]

Cord Jefferson's crash. But it's a comedy.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, after he does Entourage.

[Van Lathan]

Entourage. He does the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guess what, it's already a comedy. Crash is already a comedy.

[Bill Simmons]

He just does it. It's like when Gus Van Sant did Psycho as a shot by shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shot by shot remake.

[Bill Simmons]

Does a shot by shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. What is he doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treya, Dorisburg, Sam Jackson. No. Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Maze, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs. Or Wilford Brimley in the Firm.

[Van Lathan]

The question is, how is Danny Trejo not in this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

He must have been filming another movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's so la Crimy. Like, how is he not in it? They didn't find anything for him in this anywhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wilford Brimley in the Firm in the Fichner role. Because there's that whole scene in the Firm where he's, like, showing Tom Cruise the incriminated photos of him, the dossiers.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what that's going to mean? Cheadle? Heartbreak. I think Wayne Jenkins is the Met Dillon. We won't do a Wayne Jenkins impersonation without cr. But Wayne Jenkins and the Matt Dillon role would have been pretty interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't want to try?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you want to say Shaniqua again?

[Bill Simmons]

No. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? I mean, it got three Oscars, but I think in retrospect, I'd probably say Terrence Howard.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

For Best supporting Actor. If I had to give an Oscar.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would say Terrence Howard.

[Van Lathan]

What about Ludacris as a nomination?

[Joanna Robinson]

That would have been really fun.

[Van Lathan]

It'll be really fun.

[Bill Simmons]

But that fast seven. He got robbed.

[Van Lathan]

Luda on the award circuit would have been great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. If this movie had a black director but was the exact same movie, what happens?

[Joanna Robinson]

And a serious rewrite of the screenplay.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm saying it's the exact same movie. Every single moment is the same. But the director's black widow, they run.

[Van Lathan]

Him out of town. I'm telling you, man, it would have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Been, oh, it doesn't get any Oscars.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they'd have run him out of town. It would have been, he's just got a he or she would have just gotten destroyed from all sides.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other unanswerables?

[Joanna Robinson]

How did this movie beat Brokeback Mountain? I guess that's not really the question.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the category. Brokeback Mountain and where the country was in 2005. Yeah, that's it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

In the Academy, specifically.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And old white dudes who were probably 70 to 80% of the vote at this point.

[Van Lathan]

I'll say something about Broback Mountain is Broback Mountain. Didn't Broback Mountain went for it when you were in the theater watching Broback Mountain. That actually made me read the short story after. When you were in the theater watching Broback Mountain. Brobach Mountain didn't make that story for consumption with people that would be uncomfortable with any of the. And not even just the sex, the love and the affection between the two men. Brobach Mountain said either you're ready for it or you're not. And they weren't quite ready.

[Bill Simmons]

It doesn't seem like we're probably doing it this year for rewatchables. It doesn't seem as crazy now when you're watching it as it did in 05, that there was a mainstream movie that was going for some of the stuff it was going for. Now it's like 20 years later. It's like, of course they made this movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it's mostly, I think that, like, Gyllenhaal and Ledger were. But like, Ang Lee wins Best Director, it's not inconceivable that it wins Best Picture. I think it was.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think that's why everybody was shocked. I think it was a heavy favor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. No, I mean, it's Just like, if it's gonna now, it's crazy now.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're redoing Oscars, it's one of.

[Joanna Robinson]

The first ones, but, like, if it's gonna lose to anything that it loses to Crash.

[Van Lathan]

What else was nominated that year?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there was Munich was nominated that year.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Capote.

[Joanna Robinson]

Capote.

[Bill Simmons]

Capote was the other one. Yeah. And then Good night, good luck, which is not a good.

[Van Lathan]

So not a. Not a bad movie. Strong.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was a bad movie picture year, right? No, but Brokeback should have won. It's crazy that he didn't win. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? It's probably the fortified underwear would be my pick for the not one game worn fortified underwear. No, thank you.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't think Tenduin Newton kept that?

[Van Lathan]

Probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably dumped that one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The St. Christopher's statue. Coach Finstock award, Best life lesson.

[Van Lathan]

Everyone's a racist, but also everyone's not a racist.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You can be racist.

[Bill Simmons]

You can be a redeemable racist.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, everyone is a little bad, but everyone is. We're all like pizza. We can only be so bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

How about public transportation? It's not so bad. It's better than getting in a car with Ryan trophy.

[Van Lathan]

Yep, good point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice. What do you have, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

25Th hour.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting one.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know that that movie has the. The like, hyper racist rants from all the characters inside of it, but it's like, we did this better. This is how spiked it, you know, so.

[Van Lathan]

Grand Canyon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great one. No, that's. Honestly, that's the answer. I was gonna say American History X. Yeah, Grand Canyon's perfect.

[Van Lathan]

Perfect Grand Canyon.

[Bill Simmons]

Because that's like the previous generation version of this movie.

[Van Lathan]

The kind of same version.

[Bill Simmons]

We took a wrong turn coming back from the Laker game.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie's funny too.

[Van Lathan]

I still with Grand Canyon. I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I kind of like every.

[Van Lathan]

I know everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

She finds a baby.

[Van Lathan]

I know everybody hates it.

[Bill Simmons]

Mary McDonald finds a baby.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's amazing.

[Van Lathan]

I fuck with Grand Canyon.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie? I guess Paul Haggis.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Paul Haggis won.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we all collectively lost, I think, as a culture.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, had you ever seen this movie?

[Van Lathan]

No, I've never been more.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I had heard about it, certainly.

[Bill Simmons]

So you knew you were a little prejudiced by what you had heard?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I thought this was like, the best movie I've seen in 10 years. I'm completely lying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

I was about to say, bro, what the no, no.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know, that meme that's like, my expectations were low, but holy. Yeah, that is how I felt. I thought this would at least have something I could kind of grab onto. I thought this was a horrible movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

What was the worst part of this horrible movie for you?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Honestly? How unsubtle it is and how lack of nuance there is just, I don't know, shocking. At 2005, maybe. That was the terrible time. You know, what's funny is I do think the movie, if it were to come out now, I kind of think it would still be really successful. I think this movie would still make a lot of money amongst a certain crowd. Because it's kind of like if a Facebook post was a movie, like, there's that kind of Facebook pseudo intellectual, like, set warp, set of bullshit that I.

[Joanna Robinson]

Think a lot of money then. It didn't even make a lot of money.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, it made like 100 million. I mean, that's crazy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Like, relative to the budget, but, like, we used to live in a society where we watched more movies. But who.

[Bill Simmons]

That's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who is watching this movie now?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Everybody's on Facebook, Craig.

[Van Lathan]

The movie would come out and, like, we would go ape shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would end careers.

[Van Lathan]

It was like, we like people like movies Queen and Slip. Like, any movie that delves into this, that doesn't do it authentically now is held up in such detest.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You couldn't make it with any of the big names or anything like that. But what was that. What was that movie that came out a couple years ago, that religious movie that was. That did really well.

[Van Lathan]

Talking about God's not Dead.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, it was about, like, the trap. The like Sound of Freedom.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You talking about, like, something different, though.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, but I think there's like. It's like there's a world in which there's a corner. Just fire in that way. Because of that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wasn't Sound of Freedom the one that they like, Astroturf? The theaters, though, that, like, people weren't actually seeing that. They were just mass buying tickets to make it seem like people were singing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Pay forward model.

[Van Lathan]

Also mass church groups. Mega churches would get their people.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And like, take their people to go see the movie after church. But though, to be honest with you, I might make one of those. Those movies do well. I'm being for real. I might make one of those, like, what is your.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is your mega church scam movie called? Van.

[Van Lathan]

Ooh, that's a good one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you know what it is?

[Bill Simmons]

He won't be making a Scientology movie. We've learned that during this podcast. They blacked his face out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, black my face out again. Mine is going to be about a prosperity preacher. Like a. Like a black prosperity preacher that preaches kind of like Leap of Faith. It's a shadow remake of Leap of Faith with Steve Martin. It's about a black prosperity preacher that's actually just trying to get money. But then something happens and he really catches the spirit. Right? He really catches the spirit. And then is, I'm gonna put all of the people in it. He, David, gonna be in my shit. And, like, we're gonna put all of the people in it. And then we just gonna go church to church to church to church to church, running it up.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I can't believe every actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig's not saying.

[Van Lathan]

It's called the Price of Heaven.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I can't believe every actor read the script and was like, yeah, this is an awesome choice for me in my.

[Van Lathan]

Career right now, Craig. I guarantee you. They were so thrilled.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I know. I bet.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I. I really think it's hard to overstate how weird 2005 was.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, I could see how in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Moment, that's just a stretch in society.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I could see how in the moment, if you're an and you go see this movie, like your ten minute regret thing, I could even see it being like a year long regret. I'm surprised Ebert didn't walk it back, because he usually does when he has bad takes. But you can see how in the moment somebody could walk away. Being like this felt important, but just.

[Van Lathan]

Put it in context. Okay, so post 9 11, we are dealing with a lot of like, 911 was almost. It was the big. It wasn't the beginning of online. It was the beginning of this really harsh approach to. To discourse where we're like tribalism. Yeah. To where we're like, really litigating all the idiosyncrasies between us and all of that stuff like that. This movie deals in that. Then you have, like, the Bush era where we thought we were divided. We weren't even nearly as divided as we are now. It was actually a movie perfect for its time in a way, to look.

[Bill Simmons]

At that felt like we weren't. I thought 911 in some ways brought people a little closer.

[Van Lathan]

It did, but.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Tom Brady and the Patriots started winning Super Bowls, and that brought people closer.

[Van Lathan]

It did, but.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it gave people license to say. I feel like it gave people license to say things that they weren't saying in the 90s. You know what I mean? Like, we went through a phase in the 90s political PC culture. Right. And then 911 happened, and it just sort of let the lid off of a lot of things.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's happening a little bit again right now.

[Van Lathan]

Right. But then also remember that, like, by the time 2005 comes, we are just beginning to sort of reexamine all of this stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, but the OJ Verdict starts. Starts it. Right? The way everybody reacted to the OJ Verdict was illuminating in a lot of different ways, and that kind of led to her. But then by the late 90s, I don't know, it felt like things had.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, we were. You know why?

[Bill Simmons]

People kind of moved on.

[Van Lathan]

You know why?

[Bill Simmons]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

Because everybody was getting money and we were having fun. Like, the 911 happened and then. And then everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, everybody.

[Van Lathan]

Bill Clinton, party President, having fun. NSync, Backstreet Boys. Everybody was having a good time. The economy was good. Everybody was having fun. And then stuff starts to happen and.

[Bill Simmons]

We start to go, okay, Joe Francis. Girls were going wild, bruh.

[Van Lathan]

2:00Am 2:00am we're in South Padre Island, Texas.

[Bill Simmons]

Wrestling was the best it's ever been.

[Van Lathan]

Wrestling was fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

The 90s was nothing better than the 90s.

[Bill Simmons]

Movies were great. TV shows were coming up.

[Van Lathan]

Music was 90s.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig. We.

[Van Lathan]

We, like.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was there.

[Bill Simmons]

Internet was starting.

[Van Lathan]

Internet was just starting. It was a great. It's good times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was the Internet a mistake?

[Bill Simmons]

The what?

[Joanna Robinson]

Was the Internet a mistake?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It was inevitable.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was inevitable.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what we're saying about AI right now.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I thought the. The Cambodian children part. I was like, all right, we've. We've gone one step too far. We didn't need that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what broke you.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was like, what are we even.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, what are we doing at this point?

[Joanna Robinson]

Craig made it almost. Almost all the way through the movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And then Cambodian children and women in it. I'm like, all right, Paul, come on here.

[Van Lathan]

Another reason why everybody did it is because of Paul Haggis.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Million Dollar Baby.

[Van Lathan]

Million Dollar Baby, yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, I love that the only character he didn't redeem was the. Was the store owner, the Persian guy. Like, he didn't. Like, we saw an angel God saved me from.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he had as much redemption as Matt Dillon, where they. They're just sort of like. Like Christmas in la.

[Craig Horlbeck]

But Haggis tried to redeem Matt Dillon, even though it was ridiculous. Like, he didn't even try to redeem. What was the redemption for the story?

[Joanna Robinson]

They're getting rid of the gun.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's. He's not going to go shoot people in the street anymore.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's trying to kill him. He thought God saved him.

[Van Lathan]

He kill a kid, bro. I don't care. He did it. He guilty 100%. That's a, that's a. That's a charge.

[Craig Horlbeck]

See, that shot is also the two shots they use in the promotion of this. Like when you're googling this movie is the. Is the Tandy Newton in Matt Dillon's arms and then Michael Payne.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Crash coming Friday.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I would watch Emilia Perez 20 times in a row before I watch Crash again.

[Van Lathan]

Actually, to be honest with you, Emilia Perez is kind of the crash of its day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Similar similarities, except we. We took a turn before it won best picture. Here's a question for you.

[Bill Simmons]

We sure did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Watching this movie. Did you think you were watching the kind of movie where, like, the kid is gonna die?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I did think the kid was gonna die, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or like, it's a different experience re watching Crash.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually, I hadn't seen it in a long time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, Terrence Howard gets out.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought Michael Pena died in the movie. That was my memory of it.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's.

[Bill Simmons]

When he didn't die from the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

When you watch it the first time Terrence Howard gets out of the car with a gun in the back of his belt, you're like something terrible. Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The painting scene was nerve wracking.

[Bill Simmons]

I was.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was gonna be really.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig liked the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. But then you rewatch it knowing the girl's gonna be safe, Terrence Howard's gonna be safe, and you're just sort of like, well, it's just Lawrence Tate and we don't really care.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, movie one, Best Picture.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I'm telling you, man, I don't know what movie I'd rather watch than or I wouldn't rather watch than this. Like the room. Tommy Wiseau. I would watch that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, that's just fun.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I would watch anything over this. Liz came in halfway through and was like, what is going on? Like, every five minutes is this like ridiculously over the top racist interaction?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's Crash. That's Rewatchables.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

You can watch us every week on Spotify now on video. Watch us on Ringer movies. You can see these two in House of R and Midnight Boys.

[Van Lathan]

Midnight Boys. Yep.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Wait, did you guys.

[Van Lathan]

Hated it because I didn't realize what he was doing. It's pew pew.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, I said come in.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't care. I did BB now because I did.

[Van Lathan]

My own version of it, boys. BP beep. Yeah. Johnny Five.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the little road runner.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And higher learning as well.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.