‘Crazy, Stupid, Love’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mina Kimes

Summary

The Rewatchables - “Crazy, Stupid, Love” with Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mina Kimes

Episode Date: February 24, 2026
Host(s): Bill Simmons, with Van Lathan and Mina Kimes
Film Discussed: Crazy, Stupid, Love (2011)

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, Mina Kimes, and producer Craig for a deep-dive into the highly rewatchable 2011 romantic comedy "Crazy, Stupid, Love," starring Steve Carell, Ryan Gosling, Julianne Moore, and Emma Stone. The panel explores the film’s enduring appeal, star performances, script ingenuity, and the evolution of rom-coms. The conversation traverses everything from ensemble storytelling and rom-com tropes to career trajectories, generational icons, and the shifting culture around romance, masculinity, and movie conventions.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Why “Crazy, Stupid, Love” Endures

• Airplane Movie, Date Movie, Hangout Movie:
  Van Lathan explains that "Crazy, Stupid, Love" is one of his top three airplane movies:

  “You can put it on…There’s like four or five scenes, you know, I’m gonna lock in, and then you can kind of dip out, do some emails while it’s on. When the kid stuff comes back in, in and out, in and out. It’s what I want out of an airplane movie.” (03:39)

• Ensemble Plot Execution:
  Bill praises the movie for pulling off intersecting storylines without feeling forced, unlike similar ensemble movies from the era:

  “Some of them were named after holidays…they normally do not work…But this one doesn’t waste a scene. Builds all of these separate plots and ties them up perfectly.” (05:03)

2. The Cast at Their Peaks

• Steve Carell’s ‘Thing’:
  Mina defines Carell’s unique on-screen appeal as “an emotional, decentered, hilarious character,” able to elicit both comedy and empathy, likable even at his lowest points (09:21).
  Van highlights how Carell is “secretly good looking,” carrying an innate goodness few comics have (10:01).

• Ryan Gosling Ascends to Leading Man:
  Mina:

  “Ryan Gosling is my guy…Cause I watch you see him in all of these movies…he is a fucking phenomenal actor.” (14:00)
  The hosts contextualize 2011 as a turning point in Gosling’s career—he starred in both "Drive" and "Crazy, Stupid, Love," cementing him as a leading man with range (14:29).
  Van:
  “I agree Steve Carell is the lead…But Ryan Gosling steals this movie and runs away with it.” (14:52)

• Emma Stone’s Meteoric Rise:
  Mina dubs Stone "one of the defining performers of her generation" (19:01), comparing her career arc to both Julia Roberts and Meryl Streep.
  The group notes Stone’s unique blend of likability and charisma—“the perfect combination of sexy and cute” (20:29).

3. Best Scenes, Memorable Moments, and Chemistry

• The “Dirty Dancing” Courting Scene
  Considered unanimously “the scene of the movie”—funny, sexy, vulnerable, and the heart of the film.
  Van:

  “They build a more believable, sexy, funny love story than I’ve seen over the course of entire films.” (46:13)

• The Climax/Everything Comes Together:
  Bill:

  “They’re like, this isn’t crazy enough. Should Bacon be in this? And they’re like, yeah, bring him in…They really go for it.” (50:11)

4. Generational Comparisons & Icon Analogies

• Meryl Streep vs. Emma Stone
  Mina:

  “She’s going to get there.” (21:10)
  Bill:
  “She might be Mahomes [to Streep’s Brady].” (21:50)

• Gosling’s Star Trajectory vs. Clooney and Pitt:
  Debated whether Gosling’s career charted the path Clooney’s could have; drew comparisons with multi-era Brad Pitt and athlete analogies (79:14; 80:07).

• Rom-com Chemistry—Hanks/Ryan vs. Gosling/Stone:
  Craig sees Gosling and Stone as “the Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks of my generation” (25:58).

5. Script and Directorial Praise

• Written by Dan Fogelman (later of "This Is Us"), the script earns accolades for efficiency, comedic timing, and clever plot interweaving.
• Directed by Glenn Ficarra and John Requa, who have a distinctive, tangible style; past credits include "Focus" and TV work noted for quality ensemble storytelling (07:09).

6. Rom-Com & Culture Commentary

• The film is both a last hurrah and a time capsule for “pick-up artist” culture and the “metrosexual” archetype, acknowledged as a relic of early 2010s pop culture (51:51).
• Several jokes and plotlines (e.g., the babysitter's nude photos for the 14-year-old) have not aged well and are discussed thoughtfully as products of their time (71:16, 58:41).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Script’s Clever Reveal:

  “Calling her Nana is the fake out of the entire movie.” – Van Lathan (06:04)

• The Makeover Montage:

  “Have we ever had a man-on-man makeover montage in a movie?” – Van Lathan (39:11)

• On Bar Culture Then and Now:

  “This bar did not exist in 2011… It feels like a hotel bar kind of vibe.” – Van Lathan (60:19)
  “What’s age the worst? All the babysitter stuff, it just wouldn’t fly now.” – Bill Simmons (71:16)

• Chemistry between Gosling and Stone:

  “Their chemistry in this movie is so much better than La La Land. And I would argue the romantic scene in this movie is better than any scene in La La Land.” – Van Lathan (18:05)

• Carell’s Likability:

  “My life got really fucked up and I don’t know what happened. But you’re still rooting for him and you don’t think he’s a fuck up. It’s a hard balance to pull off.” – Bill Simmons (10:34)

• Gosling’s “Damn, he got it” Factor:

  “Damn, he got…You just gotta hand it to him.” – Mina Kimes (75:29)

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Segment Timestamps & Topics

• [02:29] – How the podcast episode came to be
• [03:20] – Airplane Movie Rankings
• [04:05] – Film strengths: cast, script, ensemble
• [06:01] – The “Nana” plot device/fake-out
• [09:17] – Steve Carell’s Appeal and Range
• [13:24] – Gosling’s Career Rise and Talent
• [17:48] – Gosling & Stone’s La La Land/Crazy Stupid Love Chemistry Debate
• [19:01] – Emma Stone’s Star Profile & Trajectory
• [31:07] – Toxic masculinity and changing attitudes (pickup artist archetype)
• [36:25 – 52:03] – Most Rewatchable Scenes (shopping montage, makeover, bar scenes, Dirty Dancing, ensemble climax)
• [52:03] – “Most 2011” cultural details
• [58:41] – “What’s aged the worst?”
• [60:02] – Favorite LA settings (the mall, the Valley)
• [62:41] – The Van Lathan Award: Did the movie need more Black actors?
• [65:36] – Movie title critique and alternatives
• [71:16] – Babysitter plotline: Why it no longer works
• [75:19] – “Damn, he got it” flex category (on-screen charisma)
• [80:01] – Gosling vs. Clooney career arcs/quarterback analogies
• [90:51] – Half-assed internet research & real LA locations
• [91:38] – Apex Mountain: Who reached their peak?
• [100:00] – If the movie won an Oscar, who deserves it?
• [109:32] – Who won the movie? (Unanimous: Gosling)
• [110:32] – Craig’s generation impact perspective

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Highlighted Categories & Flex Segments

• Title Critique & Alternatives:
  – Consensus: "Crazy, Stupid, Love" is a bad title (“one of the worst of the last 20 years”), Carell campaigned against it. Alternatives suggested: “The Makeover,” “How to Pick Up Women,” “The Wingman” (65:36-67:32).

• The Van Lathan Award (Did This Movie Need More Black People?):
  – Panel imagines recasting Kevin Bacon’s “David Lindhagen” as Black: Kenan Ivory Wayans and Chris Rock considered (62:41– 64:25).

• “Damn, he got it” Flex Category:
  – Ranks male performances that are so cool/handsome it transcends sexuality—highlights Gosling in “Drive.” (75:19–79:09)

• Hottest Take:
  – Mina wonders if marriages would benefit from a “halftime” (i.e., a conscious break mid-marriage)—sparking debate about realism and cinematic necessity (85:25–89:34).

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Awards, Recasting, and Nitpicks

• Dion Waiters Award for Best Scene Stealer:
  – Marisa Tomei, in just three scenes

• Weak Links & Modern Nitpicks:
  – The babysitter-teen subplot (wouldn't fly in 2024+) – Unlikely bar overlaps between generations

• Aged Poorly:
  – Metrosexual/GQ fashion advice, pick-up artist scripts, and aspects of toxic masculinity (51:51) – Answering machines, text devices, babysitter giving risqué photos to a minor

• Best Double-Feature Choices:
  – "La La Land" (panel debate: where’s better chemistry?) – "Pretty Woman" (great makeover double bill) – "Focus" (Bill’s pick for Ficarra & Requa synergy)

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Standout Insights on the Movie and Genre

• The script is lauded for juggling multiple story arcs without losing sight of character stakes or tone—unlike similar, “holiday ensemble” films.
• Gosling’s and Stone’s on-screen chemistry is ranked among the top rom-com pairings of the past two decades.
• The episode dissects the rom-com era change: from playful male pick-up artistry and mall/club culture to a more cautious, tech-driven, and self-aware landscape in 2026.
• The film is discussed as a cultural artifact—a marker of pre-Tinder romance, LA bar culture, and transitional social mores.

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Memorable Quotes by the Hosts

• “Their chemistry in this movie is so much better than La La Land. And I would argue the romantic scene in this movie is better than any scene in La La Land.” — Van Lathan (18:05)
• “It’s one of the best written scripts to me…like of this decade, honestly.” — Mina Kimes (06:43)
• “He is as uniquely entertaining as a performer as we have, like in this movie.” — Mina Kimes on Steve Carell (08:36)
• "The movie’s efficient. It doesn’t waste any scenes. It can’t. It’s too many characters." — Mina Kimes (52:01)
• “But Ryan Gosling steals this movie and runs away with it.” — Van Lathan (14:52)
• “Choosing between couples in the divorce has aged the best. It feels like you’re asked to do this once every six months in Los Angeles.” — Mina Kimes (55:22)
• “Don’t put yourself in that situation. You just pay for their Uber.” — Van Lathan and Bill Simmons on babysitter etiquette, 2026-style (54:02)
• “He does have a lot of good compliments…if you’re wearing a nice dress, he’s going to tell you.” — Bill Simmons (33:06)
• “A lot of times there’s a trope in movies with the makeover montage where the woman is obviously hot already…But I think this one is partially…it’s mostly effective.” — Van Lathan (40:02)
• “You can fake some of that, but some of it has to be real.” — Bill Simmons (48:26, on Gosling/Stone chemistry)

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Summary Table: Host Awards & Superlatives

| Category | Winner(s) | Rationale/Quote | |-----------------------|------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | Most Rewatchable Scene| Dirty Dancing romance scene | “The scene of the movie.” | | Best Scene Stealer | Marisa Tomei | “Dion Waiters Award is clearly Marisa Tomei easily.” | | Who Won the Movie | Ryan Gosling | “He wins almost every movie he’s in.” | | Best Double-Feature | La La Land, Pretty Woman, Focus | Chemistry & genre links | | Best Flex Category | "Damn, he got it" - Gosling, Pitt, etc. | Transcendent charisma, irrespective of gender |

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For Further Listening

• The Rewatchables archives include deep-dives on "Focus," "Pretty Woman," and "The Big Short"—all referenced.
• Upcoming: "Sicario" and other Chris Ryan picks in the podcast’s next themed month.

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TL;DR

“Crazy, Stupid, Love” stands as a near-perfect, densely plotted, big-hearted rom-com where career-peak actors meet a deft script. Its wit, iconic scenes (esp. Gosling/Stone’s “Dirty Dancing” sequence), and acute sense of romantic possibility resonate now as both a time capsule of 2011 dating culture and a gold-standard in genre chemistry.

Unanimous Panel Take:

• Scene MVP: The Gosling–Stone romance night
• Who Won the Movie: Ryan Gosling
• What’s Aged the Best: The script, the fashion, Stone’s star power, the Westfield Century City Mall
• What’s Aged Worst: Pick-up artistry, the babysitter/teen plot, now-cringeworthy bar culture

Quote to Remember:

“When you watch this movie, you almost wish they ran off and had their own movie.” — Mina Kimes (39:25)

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Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Mina Kimes]

What up, what up, what up?

[Bill Simmons]

You can find a little Midnight Boys. You can find a little Ringer Tailgate still going during the off season.

[Mina Kimes]

A lot of stuff happening right now in the college football world.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of stuff. What's happening? It's mid February. Nothing's happening.

[Mina Kimes]

A lot of stuff is happening now. Ringer Tailgate has pivoted from covering college football to covering college football culture. There's a lot of conversations being had right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Excellent. Mina Kimes is not on the Ringer Podcast network, but pops by like a cameo in a great movie. Everyone like Marisa Tomei in Crazy Stupid Love, just pop it in. That's exactly a couple scenes.

[Van Lathan]

Marisa Tomei in Crazy Stupid Love is the energy I'm aiming for in pretty much every appearance.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you two made this podcast happen because apparently you had some meal together and you just decided you were gonna do this movie on the rewatchables.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. This is one of those ones. This was one of those. I am so pleasantly surprised that I'm invested into this whirlwind treatise on love in Los Angeles.

[Bill Simmons]

And we're going to cover it in one second. Crazy stupid love 2011. Simpler times. You said this was the greatest airplane movie of all time. You stand by that?

[Van Lathan]

It's in my top three.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have a top three?

[Van Lathan]

Personally? Yeah. Of movies I've probably seen at least 10 times on airplanes. I fly a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

What are the other two?

[Van Lathan]

Mean Girls.

[Mina Kimes]

Interesting.

[Van Lathan]

Every time I rewatch Mean Girls, Something new and funny. And Edge of Tomorrow, which is one of my favorites.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, that's a great airplane movie.

[Van Lathan]

I would say Crazy Stupid Love Stands alone. You don't need to watch an airplane. But I would say it's a perfect airplane movie and perfect for this podcast because you can put it on. There's like four or five scenes, you know, I'm gonna lock in.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then you can kind of dip out, do some emails while it's on. When the kid stuff's come back in, in and out, in and out. It's what I want out of an airplane movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote three big strengths. Van date movie crossed with an airplane movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have seen it when it came out on a date.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

But then redoing it on the airplane or as a hangout movie, it's the sweet spot. I love two completely overqualified actors in a movie like this. It's just you're basically taking fighter jet pilots and asking them to just fly a JetBlue. Gosling and Emma Stone. They're just like, at the great points in their career. We'll talk about that in a second. And then I'm a sucker for the. A bunch of plots happening at the same time. And then they're like, watch this. And everything comes together in one scene. It's really hard to pull out.

[Mina Kimes]

It's so hard to do. And the evidence of that is that there were a lot of these big ensemble movies that happened in the 2010s. Some of them were named after holidays. Whatever they would say. It was like there was a Valentine's Day.

[Van Lathan]

Valentine's Day, New Year's Day, New Year's Day.

[Bill Simmons]

Amina's pretending she hasn't seen all of them. Oh, I have seen them. My wife just cranks those up.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't watch any of those.

[Mina Kimes]

And by the way, they normally do not work. They're normally pretty breezy, pretty entertaining. But this one doesn't waste a scene. Builds all of these separate plots and ties them up perfectly.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a movie in the late 90s called playing by Heart that is like the lost version of this. It's a rom com. Angelina Jolie's in it, very young Jon Stewart is in it, but it's got like 10 people you've heard of. And it's the same thing where in the last 15 minutes, everything comes together. Oh, shit. You're the brother and sister. And it usually doesn't work. And you usually know right away. There's only that one clue in this movie. When Steve Carell and Julianne Moore are going to see the teacher, and they're sitting with the door between them, and she's like, I talked to Nana today. And she's like, oh, how is she? And she's worried about us. And they're talking about Emma Stone, but you don't realize it the first time. You think. You think they're talking about a grandmother.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

And then it circles around perfectly.

[Van Lathan]

Right. In the first scene of the movie or the first part of the movie when he's driving the babysitter home, he's like, I'm gonna have to call Nana. And I didn't notice it until, like, my eighth rewatch, but it is. Calling her Nana is the fake out of the entire movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Which raises questions of, would you call a attractive woman in her early 20s Nana?

[Mina Kimes]

Well, they try to explain it. She couldn't say Hannah. She says Nana. My sister's nickname is Noonie. Maybe it could be a thing. It's a great script. It's an insanely convenient script. Like, it's a lot of stuff Dan

[Bill Simmons]

Fogelman goes on to do. This is us, and a whole bunch of good stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

Let me tell you something.

[Bill Simmons]

Danny Collins tell you something right now.

[Mina Kimes]

Paradise.

[Van Lathan]

Paradise.

[Bill Simmons]

Paradise.

[Mina Kimes]

Paradise. Hidden gem. Well, not Hidden gem. Everybody. Season two is coming, but, like, a really great show. He's got it all going, but, like, one of the best scripts, to me, like, of this decade, honestly. And there were some great scripts in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus we have three Oscar winners and two Oscar nominees. Winners Julianne Moore, Emma Stone, Marisa Tomei, the directors, Carell and Gosling. And the directors did Focus.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. Fakara and Rick Riqua.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Also directed the best. The episode of Paradise. And you know what I'm talking about immediately. That's probably one of the best episodes of television last year. When did it come out? The seventh. The flashback episode. Yeah, they also produced my favorite television show of all time, Patriot, which no one's ever seen. So shout out to those guys.

[Bill Simmons]

And they did one of the Apple ones, the. You gotta watch it. What is it?

[Van Lathan]

It's a TV show about a depressed spy that like 50 people have seen and you will love it.

[Mina Kimes]

Who's. Who's the who? Who's in it?

[Van Lathan]

The guy from. For all Mankind who's from New Zealand, whose name is Casey. Anyway, sorry, Patriot. Patriot.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some Apple show they did when we were doing like WeWork and we were doing all the different scandals. They might have done the WeWork one. They did one of them and it was crashed. Yeah, I already done on rewatch was they have a specific style that you know when you see it. I don't really know how they do it, but you kind of know when it's their thing. So when, even when they did paradise, you can kind of feel their special stuff. Steve Carell, 2004-2011. Anchorman, 40 year old virgin, the Office and Little Miss Sunshine all in like two years. Like it's just happening, just going for it. Then a little bit of a slump. Evan Almighty, Dan in real life, Get Smart, Date night, dinner for schmucks. And this becomes kind of his little bit. I don't want to say comeback, because he's doing well, obviously, but he hadn't had a. There was questions about could this guy be the lead of a movie?

[Craig]

Don't knock Get Smart. Get Smart.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm knock it.

[Mina Kimes]

You like it though?

[Craig]

Yeah. Get Smart's really bad.

[Van Lathan]

Date Night's not bad. Yeah, Date Night with Tina.

[Mina Kimes]

These are good movies, but to the overall point is that like, we knew that we liked Steve Carell as this thing and then the question kind of was like, could Steve Carell, even directly with Evan Almighty, because like, Steve Carell beat Jim Carrey. Could he be a 20 or $25 million movie lead of these gigantic comedy things? And the answer kind of ended up being a little bit of a no. However, when he is properly cast and given the opportunity to do the Steve Carell thing, he is as uniquely entertaining as a performer as we have like in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

But what's the Steve Carell thing, though? I think that's the thing I've never fully figured out.

[Mina Kimes]

The Steve Carell thing, to me is being an emotional, de centered, hilarious character. Like when you look at the 40 year old version, that character is emotionally frazzled, right? And in that emotional de centering, that's where the comedy comes from in this one too. In this movie, he's like off kilter. He's knocked off base early on by this revelation.

[Van Lathan]

He literally rolls out of a car.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he rolls out of the car.

[Mina Kimes]

When Marisa Tomei steps out, he goes, what the hell? Like, it's hysterical. Like, watching that. Because he's a very likable guy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I would say this movie also touches on two very unique Steve Carell qualities, one of which is he's secretly good looking, he's handsome. And after the makeover, you as the audience see it, it works because he is actually a good looking man.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Which is kind of the joke of The Freudio version 2 and some of his other comedic roles. And then there's like an innate goodness to him. Like, you never doubt this entire movie that he's a good person who loves his wife. And a lot of those comedians don't have that characteristic. And it allows him to sell everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Little Miss Sunshine's. He's good. Like, that's a good example of. He's good at, like. My life got really fucked up and I don't know what happened. But you're still rooting for him and you don't think he's a fuck up. It's a hard balance to pull off.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I feel like something. This guy got sidetracked, but I still believe in something about him and I don't know why.

[Mina Kimes]

So, like, take a movie like Liar, Liar. That movie's a big deal. But in that film, Jim Carrey's gotta be an asshole for a little while and then he's gotta learn his lesson and whatever. Like, it's difficult to see Steve Carell. He's done this. He tried to make a couple of movies where this was a thing. It's difficult to see Steve Carell as like a character that you don't really like.

[Van Lathan]

We watched the Morning show, Bill and I did. Did you watch the morning Show?

[Mina Kimes]

I did, and it doesn't quite work.

[Bill Simmons]

That wasn't his fault because they created that show and started making it and then MeToo and all the shit went down and they had to like shift his character on the fly. I don't know if he signs up for that show, if he knows where it was actually heading.

[Van Lathan]

It's a weird cause he's had other serious roles and I think a lot of them have worked, but serious and being a bad person just doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

He was like, can you just kill me off in a car accident in episode nine? They're like, yeah, Steve you're out.

[Mina Kimes]

Don't worry. And when you think about it, he's like the perfect guy to play that. Cause, like, he has morning show host energy. I just didn't buy him as a bad dude. Yeah, as the bad guy.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your Steve Carell relationship, Craig?

[Craig]

I mean, he's like the tip of the mountaintop. I mean, in high school, he's on the Office. He's the most important person on television, probably for my generation, just like the most lovable guy in the world and can do both things. I mean, I started out with him on anchorman and 40 year old virgin and all that stuff. Pretty remarkable that he can play Brick Tamlin and then be incredibly believable as, like, a pathetic dad trying to get his life together. And you totally believe both.

[Bill Simmons]

We should have mentioned the Office thing.

[Van Lathan]

That's his.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because it was a hangover when you saw him in a movie. The Office was such a big show.

[Van Lathan]

Is he one of the rare TV stars who are so associated with one character who have then gone on to have a successful film career?

[Craig]

Yeah. He's not Typecast. He's not George Costanza as. As Michael Scott.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like this Ted Danson had trouble breaking out of this when Cheers became massive. And they kept trying to work him into movies, and it really wasn't until Curb youb Enthusiasm that he kind of broke away from Cheers. But it took. It took a while. Sometimes it's hard. Carell had was in so many movies that I felt like he was able to juggle it. But the Office meant so much to so many people.

[Mina Kimes]

You know what's hard is I never watched it.

[Bill Simmons]

Which one?

[Van Lathan]

You've never seen the Office?

[Mina Kimes]

I've seen the Office, but I didn't watch it like this.

[Bill Simmons]

I never really watched it either, so I don't have.

[Mina Kimes]

So, like, legitimately, what I just said, you almost proved that wrong. Because that character is kind of an asshole, right?

[Van Lathan]

No, no, he's very.

[Craig]

He's incompetent.

[Van Lathan]

He's an oath.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yes. But you're really lovable, and he means

[Van Lathan]

a really good dude.

[Bill Simmons]

What was your Ryan gosling relationship from 2004 to 2011? Either of you?

[Mina Kimes]

So it's Ryan Gosling is. This is my guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. You know, Blue Chips Tony was my guy.

[Bill Simmons]

That's my guy.

[Mina Kimes]

That's my guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Shut up.

[Mina Kimes]

Shut up, shut up, shut up. Get out of here. Ryan Gosling is my guy. So I, first of all, was, like, pleasantly surprised by Ryan Gosling.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Cause I watch half you See him in all of these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mina Kimes]

He's kind of dopey. And Remember the Titans and all of that stuff like that.

[Bill Simmons]

And you know, his Face Notebook was the first time. It's like, oh, the guy from Remember the Titans

[Mina Kimes]

and then Half Nelson. I go, wait a second.

[Van Lathan]

Such a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, he is a fucking phenomenal actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Then when you watch his rise, he, for a time, for me, isn't missing on everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Fracture. Lars and the Real Girl. Blue Valentine.

[Mina Kimes]

Blue Valentine.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough date movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that. That was a tough one. Beyond the Pines, which is a movie that's way up in my pantheon, but like everybody else, kind of passionate.

[Van Lathan]

That's how he met Eva Mendes. Right.

[Mina Kimes]

How he met Eva Mendes. And then.

[Bill Simmons]

Handsome couple.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah, super handsome.

[Van Lathan]

All timer.

[Bill Simmons]

2011 is drive and Crazy Stupid Love, same year. And that felt like it cemented him as. This is a leading guy now.

[Mina Kimes]

That combo.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that combo. Hard to puff.

[Mina Kimes]

Coolest white boy in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Like Drive, where he doesn't say anything and he commands the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

This film where he's rolling off one liners left and right and he commands the movie. He could do either thing.

[Van Lathan]

This is his movie. I'll just start here. I agree. Steve Carell is the lead. He's on the poster. We start by talking about him. But Ryan Gosling steals this movie and runs away with it. And when I think about the iconic scenes, except for the one at the end, which is everybody, It's Gosling scenes in this film.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This lays the groundwork for the next 15 years. I mean, you could make a. Casey's the second most famous actor right now. You know, case of the under 50s. He.

[Mina Kimes]

He is both. He was the guy at one point that everybody wanted to get to get their movie green lit. There's actually this. There's a.

[Bill Simmons]

If you couldn't get Leo, he might have been one of the next calls, if not the next call.

[Mina Kimes]

There's this documentary called Seduce and Abandon, which is. It's, like, about the.

[Van Lathan]

It's the. Like the nagging. Oh, it's.

[Mina Kimes]

It's James Toback and Alec Baldwin and they.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember this.

[Mina Kimes]

Remember this.

[Bill Simmons]

James Toback, controversial figure.

[Mina Kimes]

Controversial figure. Controversial figure. They're trying to get a movie made and they're talking about, like, how hard it is to get an independent film made. And it's legitimately a segment in the documentary that is dedicated to Ryan Gosling because they're talking about. They're asking people around, hey, if there's one guy you would Want in your movie to get your movie made, to get the movie made. And everyone answers Ryan Gosling all at the same time. And. And then they interview Ryan Gosling and then talk about it. He never quite was able to live up to that promise.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he wanted to. I don't think he always seemed like he wanted to make weird movies that were on screen.

[Van Lathan]

He's made a lot of interesting career choices, right?

[Mina Kimes]

It seems like only now when you see Barbie and now he's doing Star wars and stuff like that later in his career that he's trying to get to that guy.

[Van Lathan]

Isn't it crazy though, like Barbie and this movie to me are as to best movies. Even though he's had more award winning type performances and they're not movies where he is the quote unquote main character and he steals both of them, which is like what a testament to his abilities.

[Bill Simmons]

The old Brad Pitt move, just coming

[Van Lathan]

in as the second guy. And then I think Drive is the

[Mina Kimes]

best movie he's ever been in.

[Bill Simmons]

He never did that.

[Van Lathan]

I just think performances, he just glowers.

[Bill Simmons]

We respect the movies where it's like, this movie doesn't work unless the guy can carry. Not a lot. And that's what's good about Drive. The thing with him though, I always wonder, there's the two paths, right? You can go weird movies, bounce around, be in a good one every once in a while, be in the weird indies. And then there's like the Leo path where you just go, I am going straight through with good directors and I'm just gonna go from big movie to big movie and work with all the best people. And that's gonna be my career. I don't feel like he did that. I think he went the other way where he was like, oh, I like the script. Yeah, fuck it. But La La Land is when. That's when it, I think, goes to another level for him because he's capitalizing on the chemistry that he had already built with our next person to talk about, Emma Stone.

[Van Lathan]

Can I, I mean, unofficial sequel drop. Potentially my hottest take about stupid love. Go for it. Well, it's about La La Land. Their chemistry in this movie is so much better than La La Land. And I would argue the romantic scene in this movie is better than any scene in La La Land.

[Craig]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

Just saying.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

La La Land.

[Van Lathan]

Just saying.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't disagree.

[Van Lathan]

Just saying the scene, which I'm sure we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about between the two of them, which I think is one of the best romantic comedy scenes of the last 20 years is better than that movie. They're great in that movie, but they are electric in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what his thing is, but if I had to guess, I think he's really good at having chemistry with whoever he's doing a scene with. If I had to put it in a nutshell, then you could throw him in with anybody and he can somehow vibe and you can see in this movie, whoever he's in a scene with, it kind of works and all that. Even all the people in the bar, like everyone he's with, he just has a way of bringing out whatever the best is. Emma Stone, 07 11. Super bad ghost of girlfriend's past. Are you in that on that movie?

[Van Lathan]

That's the Matthew.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, My wife kind of likes that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Zombieland. Easy A and Crazy Stupid Love. And then she's off after this.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. One of the defining performers of her generation. I wanna shout out the nice guys too. Another Gosling classic.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God.

[Mina Kimes]

But yeah, she becomes like. I always thought, you know, I thought she was going to do like a Julia Roberts thing. I thought that was gonna be the deal.

[Bill Simmons]

No, she's doing more of a Meryl Streep thing.

[Mina Kimes]

She's doing more of a Meryl Streep thing. More of a Meryl Streep thing. She did more of a beloved, elevated, serious, dramatic actress.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll take some swings, but can also be in a movie like this.

[Mina Kimes]

Also, like, give you something breezy. That's fun.

[Van Lathan]

I wonder if she had never met Yorgos. What kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I wish I could go back in time and. Stop it.

[Van Lathan]

You don't like those movies?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Van Lathan]

I just like the favorite. You don't like the favorite?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like Yorgos.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

You don't like Yorgos at all.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like the. I don't. I don't like. I don't like truffles. I don't like Yorgos.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Van Lathan]

It's fine.

[Mina Kimes]

It's tough for you.

[Van Lathan]

Zombieland. Sneaky. Underrated. Have you seen that?

[Mina Kimes]

Love.

[Van Lathan]

So good. Right?

[Craig]

Love.

[Van Lathan]

Zombie Land. So good.

[Mina Kimes]

But she's. She is like a legitimately to me, a 24 karat gold performer. She can be super. She can be like really cute. Like there's a moment in this film where in the Dirty Dancing scene where she's. She has to play like she's completely like a knife. Not like she's like. She's. She doesn't know what she's doing. She doesn't know where she's at. And the vulnerability that she's able to put on the screen, it's like cute and funny and endearing.

[Van Lathan]

Would you say it's the perfect combination of sexy and cute?

[Mina Kimes]

It is.

[Bill Simmons]

It is.

[Mina Kimes]

You see why he falls in love with her. And she can do that. And then she can be like deadly effective and sexy as well.

[Bill Simmons]

I did this thing for ESPN the magazine, like 15, 16 years ago about trying to use advanced metrics for actors with the Oscars.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

To try to prove Meryl Streep was by far the best actor ever. And I had this point system and it was seven points for a Best Actor Actress win, three for a nomination, three for a Best Supporting Actor Actress win, and then one for nomination. And Meryl Streep right now is 65 points, which is 13 more than everybody. Katharine Hepburn's next. I mentioned this because Emma Stone is now at 19.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, she's going to get there.

[Bill Simmons]

And anyone who gets into the 20s is basically like immortal actors. So even like Robert Duvall, who had this awesome career, he's only at 17. Kate Winslet's at 17. Glenn Close is at 16. But like Frances McDormand's 24, Sissy SpaceX 22. The point is, like, she's not even 40 yet.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And is probably gonna have. I'm sure she'll be in five, six more nominated movies at least.

[Van Lathan]

So she's like the Mahomes to Merylla Streeps. Brady. Are you comfortable?

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's a generational.

[Van Lathan]

Not to complicate it for you.

[Bill Simmons]

No. If you say, like, if Meryl Streep is Brady in this scenario, like, she might be Mahomes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the track record she has early with these award winning renomination movies. It's pretty crazy. Sorry, Van.

[Mina Kimes]

No, it's funny that. That's exactly what she said. And then you. That was a funny Bill moment right there. Did you guys pick that up?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not defending Brady as much as I used to. He seems committed some high.

[Van Lathan]

I was trying to troll him into getting defensive. Ameril. By.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll be honest, I think I came

[Mina Kimes]

back and you went, she might be Mahomes. As if. It was a completely original thought.

[Bill Simmons]

I like, but that's your move. I learned that from you.

[Van Lathan]

I've been on sports television so long that doesn't even register.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

True. Somebody just taking your point running again.

[Van Lathan]

I'm like, great point. It's just part of my DNA.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I might like Meryl Streep more than Tom Brady at this point. I was really offended he didn't stick

[Mina Kimes]

up for Brady, by the way. This is something. This is something that I love Meryl Streep. You're talking about a lot to us, but I'm waiting for you.

[Bill Simmons]

I did a little bit of it.

[Mina Kimes]

A little bit. He's getting on your nerves, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

He is. Show some respect to people who stuck up for you for 20 fucking years. Just show a little respect. It can't be like that meant nothing.

[Mina Kimes]

Yo, I want you guys to understand. Bill is really nonplussed about this.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, none of the Pats fans like it.

[Mina Kimes]

Hey, when Emma Stone won that second Oscar, when she came back and she

[Van Lathan]

won that second one from Poor Things.

[Mina Kimes]

From Poor Things, yeah. When that happened, I was like. Because I thought that the town might be hesitant to make that kind of statement about her career. I thought they were. I thought they. So she wins and she comes back. I'm like, she wins another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, she'll never win a third one unless it's one of the great performances of all time. The third one is like, they'll just vote against it. They don't want it. Three is like.

[Mina Kimes]

But the second one, I mean, besides, like, Hilary Swank, which is a very interesting career to have two Best Actress Academy Awards.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, that's the Eli Manning.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that's the Eli Manning.

[Van Lathan]

Now I'm so NFL brain.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the best mailbag question I've gotten in two years. Is she the Eli Manning?

[Van Lathan]

Her tyree kill, where she now has to do it without him to register on the same Brady scale. Cause she's been racking up the awards and the accolades with Yorgos.

[Bill Simmons]

But she who won for La La Land.

[Mina Kimes]

La La Land.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she won for La La Land. That wasn't Yorgos. Okay, I have a hottest take. I'm just going to do now and we'll do the category. You guys can go there.

[Van Lathan]

I thought mine was hot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yours was good. So CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest Take award.

[Mina Kimes]

I got a hottest take two.

[Bill Simmons]

Early 2000s. Emma Stone. We're reading this. Like, easy. A crazy stupid love. If you think of, like, the great actors or the people with the potential, like you would with, like, basketball or football players, you could just tell, like, one of the great lottery picks. This, to me, was like, when you could see, like, Mahomes early or like. Or like LeBron in 05, you're like, wow, we're really gonna Go on a ride here. And I was trying to think of other actors that felt that way, that I'm alive enough to remember. And I probably didn't remember, but I think people felt this way. But, like, when Meryl Streep was in Deer Hunter and Kramer vs Kramer, and people were like, wow, there's some. There's some shit.

[Van Lathan]

Is her. Kramer versus Kramer.

[Mina Kimes]

Being in your early career is just nuts.

[Bill Simmons]

I saw Kramer.

[Craig]

Vers.

[Bill Simmons]

Kramer as a kid, not Deer Hunter. I'm just saying, like, I think the perception was this lady is going to go on and do some stuff. Julia Roberts. Yeah, in that. Steel Magnolias, Mystic Pizza, and then Pretty Woman. You're like, I'm buying stock right now.

[Mina Kimes]

Pretty Woman was a coronation. Yeah, because, like, by that point, everybody. That's like, they were pouring out their hearts wanting to love this amazing young.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Cruz was like this, like, Risky Business, that era. And then Top Gun was the coronation. So I think for Emma Stone, La La Land was probably the coronation. But this. All this stuff, this era was the setup. Like, I wasn't surprised.

[Van Lathan]

I would argue Superbad is an incredible showstopper. That's the start of it for her, because the movie's not about her. It's what would be a thankless role if many women played that. And it's not the point of the movie. And she's so funny and cool that you can tell she's a star.

[Bill Simmons]

We have to go to Craig because this is one of his favorite actors. You love that.

[Craig]

Both of them. I think Stone and Gosling are the two defining actors of their generations. To me, they're Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. But for my generation, I'm still upset.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's fair.

[Craig]

The fact that they're not together in real life bothers me. You're like, they're so good together.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe there's still time.

[Craig]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Eva Mendes is pretty good.

[Craig]

And then her. And Superbad. I feel like she was so good in that. That got her Easy A, which was her first big star role, and she was fantastic in it. Both playing somebody who's really funny and a romantic lead. She. She's amazing, you know.

[Mina Kimes]

You know what it kind of reminds me of here? It almost reminds me of early Mike Tyson.

[Bill Simmons]

Hmm.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. That's.

[Bill Simmons]

That's another good example, though. I was gonna say that, because buying stock early, before anything's happened, you're like, I know this is gonna happen, but

[Mina Kimes]

there's something else, too. People. There's something else. People don't Remember about Mike is early. I mean, people remember this about Mike. Early in Mike's career, there was volume.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

These guys that are fighting two, three times a year. Not Mike Tyson. Mike was fighting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. 4, 5, 6.

[Mina Kimes]

Either like 4 or 5. Sometimes like 7, 8, 9. So when you look at her, she. Superbad is like her first movie. And then from 07 to 2010, she. This is different.

[Bill Simmons]

She's done like eight superb stars.

[Mina Kimes]

The rocker, the house bunny, Ghost of girlfriend's past, Paperman, Zombieland, Marmaduke. And then Eza comes the first star. We can build a movie around emma Stone. That's 2010, but for that three years, she's doing different types of movies. She's doing movies, like, all different types of stuff. And by the time she gets there, the audiences are familiar with her enough to be like, yeah, we like her.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's.

[Craig]

Let's.

[Mina Kimes]

Let's take a little bit more.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, really hard needed a thread where women really like her and guys are attracted to her, and it's hard for both sides to really agree. Yeah. Julia Roberts.

[Van Lathan]

That's the right comp. Julia Roberts is. I feel like maybe Meryl from the serious awards. Although obviously Julia did too. But, yeah, you're right. Like, she is so cute, so funny, so likable. She's like the dream girl.

[Craig]

She's also a. She's like a comedy fan at heart. And I feel like, yeah, she's a

[Bill Simmons]

little Mary Tyler Moore.

[Craig]

She's not afraid to make herself look dumb or look silly or do weird faces, which is also kind of unique for, like, an actress that is that famous. She kind of doesn't really care. Making herself look bad in a movie or look stupid.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Which just makes her feel more grounded.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why that Nathan Fielder show, which I didn't really like.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, the.

[Bill Simmons]

But she was so interesting in it because she really committed. Yeah, she really committed to how weird it was. Yeah, she. If she's in, like, she's all in, like, whatever it is.

[Van Lathan]

Done some weird stuff. Maniac. Some of her role. I'm obviously the Yorgo stuff is just inherently weird, but she's a really adventurous.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina's like that at espn. If it's a weird show, she'll still commit to it. She doesn't care.

[Van Lathan]

I'm in.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like, what are we doing? We're drafting the best safeties the last 50 years.

[Mina Kimes]

The Emma Stone.

[Van Lathan]

Don't. Don't do this. Don't. Don't do this. Don't do. No, we're not. We're not going on this.

[Bill Simmons]

We bought some knew right away. She's bread free as pen magazine. I'm like, I'm in on Laspina.

[Mina Kimes]

Put her with anyone. Who would be the Gosling in that situation? Is it Dan Orlovsky? Like who? Like who?

[Bill Simmons]

I think Dan Orlofsky would want it to be Dan Orlofsky.

[Mina Kimes]

You're the Emma Stone to be a fan.

[Van Lathan]

No, I'm not.

[Mina Kimes]

We came to this. This was a.

[Bill Simmons]

We went full circle.

[Mina Kimes]

Full circle.

[Bill Simmons]

Also.

[Mina Kimes]

Just real quick, Cruella. Did y' all see that?

[Van Lathan]

It's actually good. It's good. I watched on a plane and I was locked in.

[Mina Kimes]

That's good.

[Van Lathan]

She's really good in it.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like a really stupid mov make. Let's make the origin story of Cr Deville. It's like a Disney live action kind of money grab. But that movie works. It's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Juliana Moore is in her. Julianne Moore. Sorry. Is in her 2010 quirky mom phase of Private Lives of Pipoli. Chloe. Weird movie. Kids Are all right and Crazy Stupid Love all in a row. That was like where you've moved into.

[Van Lathan]

She nominated for Kids Are all right.

[Bill Simmons]

She was. That movie's good.

[Van Lathan]

It's a great movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Good.

[Bill Simmons]

Good LA movie too. And then you mentioned our guys Fakar and Requa and Fogelman. The Horlbeck scale for this movie. 118 minutes. We're plus 18. Craig.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's two rom coms happening at the same time, which I think requires a little extra time. I think rom coms in general are usually a little longer than like a traditional comedy because you kind of have to build up the relationships. And so they usually skew closer to two hours than an hour 40. But you know, there's some Robbie in the girlfriend stuff or in the babysitter stuff that like, I don't know if like Nina said earlier, like, you can go pee during.

[Van Lathan]

Check my emails.

[Bill Simmons]

So yeah, I think it's a little. There's 10 minutes, maybe eight minutes. You could pull out of the middle, move a little faster. I think you could get the school scene at the end. I think even that could. We could get right to the speech and not have the lead up.

[Mina Kimes]

This is the cutest Pre two movie that's ever. That day.

[Bill Simmons]

Pre two.

[Mina Kimes]

This is a Pre two.

[Bill Simmons]

You saw that for me, that was my joke.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, I told you said that I do it and I do.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why I said earlier.

[Mina Kimes]

But that was different. She goes I think they're Brady and Mahomes. And you go, well, because I didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't want to admit it.

[Mina Kimes]

And then she.

[Bill Simmons]

Mahomes. And I was like, wow, that's fine. She has to.

[Mina Kimes]

International Women's Month.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, are we already in. Is this what age the worst jumping in because this. Are we edging into what age the worst here?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no. We're waiting. We're waiting.

[Van Lathan]

I know what you're about to talk about here.

[Mina Kimes]

Not just that, though. Not just that, though. There's a character that used to exist in movies that doesn't exist anymore because

[Bill Simmons]

people can't do it.

[Mina Kimes]

Not that character. Absolutely. Ryan Gosling's character in this movie. The guy who espouses all of these. Directly misogynist.

[Bill Simmons]

The Neil Strauss type of woman kind of changes him.

[Mina Kimes]

He softens up a little bit. Movies don't really investigate masculinity in that way as it toxic masculinity being something harmless anymore. It has to be something that ends planets now. And if you do it that way, people will say that you're irresponsible in the way that you're kind of going about it.

[Van Lathan]

I would. You're not wrong. Right. The movie is about a pickup artist, Daniel Strauss, the game for those who blissfully are too young to remember this era. But his. It was funny. I was thinking about that watching that. The way he picks up women is actually different. And I think it's a meaningful distinction because the game for those who don't know, was like. About negging women. You remember the whole. There was so much written about it at the time. Yeah. Like. And that's not his modus operandi.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's negging women.

[Craig]

No, no, that's boring.

[Mina Kimes]

That's boring.

[Craig]

That's negative.

[Bill Simmons]

He negs him, but it's a lot of compliments.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Mina.

[Craig]

He's negative.

[Mina Kimes]

Mina is toxic. I know it.

[Bill Simmons]

She does.

[Mina Kimes]

It worked on Mina. Mina. He got you.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think it's quite as bad.

[Craig]

He's basically like, stop talking. Let's go home. And they're like, of course.

[Mina Kimes]

He literally tells them. He says, like, no, that's boring. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He lets them talk about them, but he dictates what's important.

[Craig]

I have four brothers and sisters. No, no, that's not interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

Right? I mean, it's a little.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, all right. Well, I just don't think it's quite as bad. But you're right. You don't see that sort of character that much anymore. It's very.

[Bill Simmons]

He does have a lot of good compliments.

[Mina Kimes]

So what?

[Bill Simmons]

But if you ever wearing a nice dress, he's going to tell you.

[Mina Kimes]

But there's one important scene, like there's some great scripts in that decade. Moonlight's a great script. The best script in the whole decade to me. Hella high water. That's the best script of the decade to me. But like there's some great scripts in that decade. Don't get me started on Taylor Sheridan. But like some great scripts in that decade. But there's a scene in this movie where you get a complete explanation of why he is the way that he is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

And it really, really works. Some people might look at it as forced exposition, but he talks about my mother. Mother was beautiful. She was cold. She was inaccessible. His mother was something beautiful that he couldn't really access, which is what he is. And his father was something that was really sweet and really successful. That was kind of. That died a long time ago.

[Van Lathan]

And this is again why this movie is so well written in that moment. You remember him saying to Steve Carell when Steve's like, why are you doing this? You remind me of someone. And the movie, everything is like a puzzle. It fits together so well. Everything. There's nothing incoherent about it. There's no inconsistencies. That scene, I mean, we're gonna talk about it at length, is I think one of the most well written and well acted.

[Mina Kimes]

It's fantastic. Fogelman's underrated. Like it. But so he sees him and he helps him.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's properly rated. He's done a lot of good stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

He's done a lot of good stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Danny Collins was really good. I was huge.

[Van Lathan]

This is like one of the most successful TV shows of like it is.

[Mina Kimes]

And it's, it's super well written characters and stuff. But like when I, when I watched the movie, this time a little bit older, I kind of saw what in fact he was trying to do. It's like, I'm telling you, it's a fantastic script to me.

[Bill Simmons]

So plus 18, you'd go like plus 8, you'd cut out 10.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. $50 million budget made. $145 million bonafide hit. Roger Ebert three stars. Crazy stupid Love is a sweet romantic comedy about good hearted people. Imagine that. Okay, Raj, Raj, we're gonna take a break and then we're gonna do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Taxact. Like an expert coach, Taxact offers step by step guidance and Guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add Expert Assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With expert full service. TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Sometimes in the film world, we see performances on screen that are so mind blowing, you think someone somewhere is bending the rules. Like when one actor plays twins or nails a really difficult accent. The glycerin flecks from Brooks is that phenomenon in shoe form. It provides a flexible cushion rod that's made to move with you. With a breathable upper, your shoe feels like a distraction free second skin. It's the ultimate blend between human movement and tech. So if you want to experience the best parts of your performance, flex the rules in the new Glycerin Flex. Shop the glycerin [e-mail] all right, most rewatchable scene. Opening scene, I want a divorce. And Cal jumps out of the car, ripped off. And in Lady Bird, I guess kind of a ripoff.

[Van Lathan]

It's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Opening scene in Lady Bird, same thing.

[Mina Kimes]

Kind of. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not kind of jumps out of a.

[Van Lathan]

I never thought about that.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it's just true.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't handle who she's talking to and jumps out. It's very true. Jacob meets Hannah and her friend. An insane Gosling scene. Yeah, he's just throwing 105 miles an hour.

[Van Lathan]

The friend, sneaky, has some really good jokes in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

The friend's good. I have something on her later.

[Mina Kimes]

But by the way, in that scene, very important to establish his character. She rejects him 50 times. Doesn't Pierce his confidence in one way. All it does is intrigue him.

[Craig]

Buys women drinks even when they say they don't want one.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that's some Han Solo.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

That's some Han Solo shit. He's like, yeah, he's like. She says no the whole time.

[Van Lathan]

But it also makes us like him. I mean, we like him because he's Ryan Gosling and he's funny and handsome. But the fact that he's drawn to a woman like that early on, it's a good dude. It sells us.

[Bill Simmons]

You're really wearing a dress. That dress. Like it's a favor.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a line. You like that?

[Bill Simmons]

I like that. I like the double negative. There's some good stuff in there. Bernie breaks up with Cal in the couple's divorce. Then Gosling makes friends with him. I just want to talk about couples divorces.

[Mina Kimes]

I have it written down.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really an underrated theme for movies that I haven't seen properly explored. They only do this. It's a short scene where he's like, yeah, my wife. We had to go with whatever, but this is the thing that happens.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a tough thing, isn't it, Bill?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I'm happily married.

[Mina Kimes]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean.

[Van Lathan]

No. But picking sides.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

I refuse to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm the same way.

[Mina Kimes]

I refuse to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

But the problem is like with, with, with, you know, parties or eight person dinners or whatever. Who do you.

[Craig]

Would you pick, me or Liz right now?

[Bill Simmons]

I actually wouldn't. Also, if you break up, I won't believe in love anymore.

[Van Lathan]

The HR implications of that divorce nightmare.

[Mina Kimes]

You almost have to fire them both.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

You'd almost have to give John Carroll Lynch.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I know.

[Bill Simmons]

We're talking about John Carroll Lynch.

[Van Lathan]

Very funny in that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Also Fargo, Zodiac in this movie in

[Van Lathan]

five years, good in everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Just completely different parts has never been bad. But I love, I love that he has to break up with them. The cuckolding monologue we have here and then you're sitting there with the super cuts haircut, getting drunk on watered down but vodka cranberries like you're a 14 year old. That whole part's great. You're size 44 and you should be a size 42. The shopping montage. The rarely seen two guys shopping. Never get it.

[Mina Kimes]

Never.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I think this might be the only one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. We've ever had a man on man makeover montage in a movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Never happened.

[Mina Kimes]

Not as deep as this one right here and not as effective. Like this kind of. When you watch this movie, you almost wish that they ran off and had their own movie.

[Bill Simmons]

They kind of slide into it too. They don't hit you over the head with it. It's like, oh, are we doing a makeover montage? What's your favorite one of all time, Mina?

[Van Lathan]

My favorite makeover montage of all time. Oh my God, there's so many good ones.

[Bill Simmons]

It seems like it's Pretty Woman, Devil Wears Prada in the finals.

[Van Lathan]

Devil Wears Prada is really good. Princess Diaries and Hathaway's been part of.

[Mina Kimes]

You know what's a good one to me too? It's not a makeover montage, but just makeovers in movies can't buy me love.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Breakfast Club is a good one too. The 80s. The 80s kind of invented it. And then the Next decades made it better versions of it. Do you?

[Van Lathan]

Because. Okay, so a lot of times there's a trope in movies with the makeover montage where the woman is obviously hot already, AKA the Rachel Lee Cook, and she's all that. They take off her glasses.

[Mina Kimes]

I fucking hate it, bro.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. But I think this one is partially. It's mostly effective, and it's, I think, one of the three best scenes in the movie because it's so funny. But it also works because the makeover is so good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, he really like Steve Carell at the end when it's a great scene with the woman who does his hair and he asks if she would sleep with him and she says, yes, he looks amazing when he comes out.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good job by him. I think they. I didn't find this in the research, but I feel like he probably puffed up a little for the beginning of the movie and then thinned out, which is like what you do when you have bad breakups. And I think they're trying to capture that. They change his clothes, give him some shoulders. Haircut.

[Mina Kimes]

Haircut. Important haircut. The stuff that Gosling says to him is, like, true.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like the stuff that the Gap. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He's better than the Gap.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough movie for the Gap.

[Mina Kimes]

He also looks at him. He says what he says. He dares him to say something meaner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

The quote that he comes back with, you've lost.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Like the entire thing. You're not taking care of yourself. You lost interest in yourself and your wife lost interest in you. That's a tough pill to swallow. But that's the point of the scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. We have the shopping montage. We have the montage of him learning how to pick up women at the bar, which is funny. We have little Robbie torturing Kevin Bacon in the office, raising his chair, which I really enjoyed with the first Marisa Tomei scene. Heading right into the cow is now confident in the bar. That's a good stretch. We have Cal and his wife seeing each other at school, which I think is a really good scene. And then we get the Marisa Tomei reveal. And she's great.

[Van Lathan]

She's just two fake outs in one movie.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, I'm sorry I didn't set you up for a wet girl. Hall of Famer.

[Mina Kimes]

Marissa told me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, my bad.

[Mina Kimes]

Way.

[Bill Simmons]

Career achievement. Like, she got the Irving Thalberg Award for all time.

[Mina Kimes]

But, like, so you see her at first and she's literally. She's on a different World. Yeah, she's on A Different World. Like, the early version of A Different World is it's Denise, Don Lewis, and Marisa Tomei. Like, you kind of fall in love. Like, you know, you got the.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig doesn't know what that was.

[Mina Kimes]

You don't know what a different Craig. Do you know what A Different World is? No, never heard of it before.

[Bill Simmons]

It was the Cosby show companion show.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a spin off, takes place at hbcu. They're bringing it back. So if you want to.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it's kind of insane that the show got Greenlit in the 80s. That when you really think about it now.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, Bill Cosby wanted it.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but that's how it got greenlit, because he was the most powerful person on tv. But there's. That show had no business getting greenlit with the way they approached TV in the 80s.

[Mina Kimes]

But then it becomes. Actually, you're right. But then it becomes a super important hit show. Yeah. Like, the show shows that audiences will show up for something that's that authentic and that black.

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you praising Bill Cosby so much?

[Mina Kimes]

Shut up.

[Bill Simmons]

What the hell? What are we doing? We're recording this with me and Bill Cosby.

[Van Lathan]

He's still mad about the thing you did earlier.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that was a good give back right there.

[Bill Simmons]

And obviously not a world I knew anything about.

[Mina Kimes]

Marissa Tomei throughout the entire time is just one of the classic beauties.

[Van Lathan]

Can I ask you guys a question about Marisa Tomei? I posted a take during season one of the Pit about Noah Wiley Wyll Wylie, where I said, for someone, a woman my age, he is, like, the perfect crush from back when he was er because he was, like, so cute, but kind of accessible. And then he's just aged.

[Bill Simmons]

You've grown up with him.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. And now he's, like, still the perfect crush for me.

[Bill Simmons]

I have content for Juliette Lippman right now.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is.

[Van Lathan]

Somebody responded to that. That's Marisa Tomei for us. Oh, do you think that's a fair?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I saw Untamed Heart in the theater.

[Mina Kimes]

So bad for that. I want to see it in the movies, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Like, why did I go to the movies to see that? Like, there was no reason to go see that. That's kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

I just wanted those two wacky kids to make it. And then he had to die in the hockey game. Christian.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a stupid fucking movie, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

It's terrible. I think I've probably seen it, like,

[Mina Kimes]

four times, but I saw that what was the other one she did? And it was like they were like Cuban people in Miami.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, she has an accent in that one.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, not great, but whatever. But, like, if she was in the movie, I would go check her out.

[Bill Simmons]

Then she's in My Cousin Vinny.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that's the one that.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird, though, because she kind of disappeared and then kind of made this crazy comeback in the mid 2000s. And then all of a sudden she was in the Philip Seymour Hoffman movie and she was just kind of back all of a sudden. Okay, three more. Hannah goes back to Jacob's place.

[Van Lathan]

This is it. This is the.

[Mina Kimes]

That's the scene of the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down an A courting scene. And the PG13 versus R thing is really funny.

[Van Lathan]

There's so many.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, I'm not here for the PG13. It's dirty dance part.

[Mina Kimes]

The movie calls it the scene. It's once again, I still think it's high level writing. The scene calls its shot, and then you're happy when you get there. Anyway, so she says, I'm not gonna do this. It's not gonna be the PG13 version of it. She wants to do it. You know that it's. But by the time it gets to the end of the scene, they've gotten so much more out of each other than sex, which is the point of the movie, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Focus did this too. These filmmakers are good at, like, creating believable vibing and actually, like, falling for each other a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

It's actually incredible when you think about it, that this scene. First of all, it's two thirds through the movie, the best scene of the movie, which is part of the reason I love rewatch. It literally makes you rewatch because. And I would say the second best is the final scene. And they've spent so little time together on camera. They really have the one scene. We get to know Ryan Gosling separately. We get to know her a little bit. The entire sequence of her going back in the rain to the bar, picking him up, going back to the house, transitioning from Dirty Dancing to the bedroom. I don't know, what is it, like 10, 12 minutes? This. In 10 to 12 minutes, they build a more believable, sexy, funny love story than I've seen over the course of entire films.

[Mina Kimes]

You're right. They just keep surprising each other. They keep surprising each other. He surprises her. She's not prepared for how sexy he is. He's not prepared for how adorable and accessible that she is. She does the conceit of the Dirty Dancing thing feels completely ridiculous.

[Van Lathan]

So funny.

[Mina Kimes]

Then they do it. She's immediately surprised that she's so turned on by it. And it works. And then when they get in bed, they start to get to know each other with all of their defenses drawn down. And you just want it to work out between them.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, I think the reason it stands out and so good is because this happens in real life way more than I think it gets credit for in the movies. Like, we have this long night with somebody and sometimes it doesn't even happen. But it's like about, like the six hour.

[Mina Kimes]

Sometimes it doesn't happen.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe one, two, three, four times. Yeah, but nine minute, Van. It happens.

[Mina Kimes]

Sometimes it doesn't happen. Most of the time I'm good every time. But sometimes I like, man, back at Holy Cross. I didn't get it.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes it's about the connection. You just never know.

[Mina Kimes]

Right, right, right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the connection.

[Mina Kimes]

The connection. But that's the point. Surprises you. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't even know if they had sex or not.

[Van Lathan]

Right. Like, you don't actually see it. So sexy.

[Bill Simmons]

I assume they did.

[Van Lathan]

It's kind of like before sunrise or before, like, we're going to spend the entire night together connecting. I mean, his. God. I like, every time, I already feel like I've revealed what a chump I am for Ryan Gosling's character in this movie by not admitting how he did it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm fully defending. Don't let Van. Don't let Van guilt you.

[Mina Kimes]

Just, you know.

[Van Lathan]

But, like, every time I watch the scene of them in the bed, I'm, like, blushing at how charismatic he is. And, like, when they're talking about his addiction to online shopping and she starts calling him out and she asks him if he has a chair, and he's like, no, I don't. Yes, I do. No, I don't. It's in the garage. I like, giggle like a schoolgirl every time watching this.

[Mina Kimes]

But cut to garage of him letting

[Van Lathan]

her into the expense.

[Mina Kimes]

It's just like all of it seems like, okay, like, his whole goal is to get women to have sex with them, but then it's not. But then he finds one that he could tell about all of these stupid things.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta go on a tangent. See, this is what I. I don't fully understand actors because I think to have scenes like that where you're filming with somebody for two days and you obviously have so much chemistry, and I don't care how good of an actor, you really can't fake some of that. It has to be at least somewhat real. And I don't understand how you turn that off. Be like, okay, you want to go get some coffee? Like. And I think that's why so many of them end up, like, hooking up. Because it's like you.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, that happened to Amazon.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Not with him. With Garfield or.

[Van Lathan]

And Ryan gosling with Rachel McAdams.

[Mina Kimes]

Rachel McAdams.

[Bill Simmons]

They dated after the Nose Play and Eva Mendes. But can you imagine?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, So I guess a lot of examples.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's my point. Which is like, I can't imagine dating an actress. So what movie are you doing? Oh, yeah, it's this thing. Crazy Stupid Love. So this is the three days where I have to lie in bed with

[Van Lathan]

Ryan Gosling in the movie. You still feel this way, which is what a testament to their chemistry.

[Mina Kimes]

The biggest version of this was. And shout out to Simon. But the biggest version of this Mr.

[Bill Simmons]

Smith is Ms. Smith.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, like Brad, you know, he tells Jennifer Aniston, and I don't want to be mean. He goes, hey, I got this great movie. Mr. And Mrs. Smith. It's me and Angelina Jolie. She should have just been like, you know what? No.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Angelina Jolie. Circa. What year was that? Yeah, come on.

[Bill Simmons]

But she can't say anything, though, because she'd already been in, like, seven movies where she fell in love with whatever character.

[Mina Kimes]

That one right there. It. To have the public root against your marriage like you. When you see them together, you're like, we want to see what? What? What?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, what?

[Mina Kimes]

What could happen?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how these actors do it.

[Mina Kimes]

It's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, two more. The crazy everything comes together scene, which I. They. They're like, this isn't crazy enough. Should Bacon be in this? And they're like, yeah, bring him in.

[Van Lathan]

Cherry on top. It's the best part.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, you left your sweater. My car.

[Mina Kimes]

It just. And. And the fact that he just shows up so good, it leans into the ridiculousness of it.

[Bill Simmons]

They really go for it. And then it kind of reminds me of the TV I grew up with in the 70s with Three's Company, where there'd be like this giant misunderstanding and then it would just go haywire. And then Jacob going to see Cal at the bar. I don't have the speech as a rewatchable for me, but you guys might disagree. I think it's a little. That end with the kid. And then Carell goes, I don't really like the last 12 minutes of this

[Mina Kimes]

movie that much a Movie like that. A movie like this always gets a little too saccharine. Yeah, it always does. So you almost. You just.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think of high school speech climactic scenes that have. Actually. They've pulled it off.

[Mina Kimes]

Can't Buy Me Love when she's in the lunch.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mina Kimes]

Like. Well, the two of them when. When she's drunk and she tells everybody

[Bill Simmons]

that's in the middle. But you're saying at the end with Ronald Miller.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about. Both of those actually worked.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Ronald Miller yelling at. We carried you. We carried you.

[Mina Kimes]

You broke the har. Really worked, man.

[Van Lathan]

I like the end of Booksmart, which is a graduation scene. And another plain rewatchable. It's not on the top tier for me, probably in the second tier, but I think I've watched it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Book smart. Book smart. Female.

[Van Lathan]

It's female. Super bad, basically.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh yeah. I'm not into that type of thing.

[Van Lathan]

You would.

[Bill Simmons]

No, book smart's good.

[Craig]

It's really.

[Mina Kimes]

I was making a sexy show.

[Van Lathan]

One of my favorite. That guys of all time. Skyler Jisondo.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I think I'm saying his name right. Anyways, he. Jimmy from.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So what do you got? For most rewatchable?

[Van Lathan]

It's a romance scene. The second is the. The finale where everything.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a Dirty Dancing scene.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think so too. What do you have?

[Craig]

I think it's the fight scene. I mean, they're very close, but I think.

[Mina Kimes]

But that was going to be a long category because this movie is really

[Bill Simmons]

a lot of rewatchable.

[Mina Kimes]

The movie's efficient. It doesn't waste any scenes. It can't. It's too many characters.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 2011 thing about this movie? Five nominees. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

There's a few things you could throw.

[Mina Kimes]

I have the cast that they would

[Van Lathan]

ever be in a.

[Bill Simmons]

Together.

[Van Lathan]

That's a great call.

[Mina Kimes]

Not quite. Silver Fox, Kevin Bacon.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Wow. Marisa Tomei is still a timeless beauty in the movie. Young flamethrowers and Stone and Gosling and then the steady lovable faces that you had in Steve Carell and Julianne Moore. Like that cast from that particular time. That's the most 2011 thing.

[Bill Simmons]

To me.

[Van Lathan]

I would say Goslings. This whole metrosexual vibe is very 2011. I'm not even talking about the perceived toxicity. His like the look.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like the way he acts. The. All of it was like the two tight suits. Like he doesn't. The way he dresses now is not cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

But It's. It was cool at the time. It was very gq. Now they wouldn't. Nobody would touch that. Like being into like making your own cocktails. Like just the way he. His body is. It's just not cool now. It's very cool in 2011.

[Craig]

It's a huge meme. The clothing advice has aged so poorly. The way that Steve Carell's character dresses in this movie is cool now.

[Van Lathan]

Like new balances.

[Bill Simmons]

Baggy jeans. 407s.

[Craig]

Yeah, baggy jeans and like a loose polo. Is that the joke is like that is how people dress now and it looks cool.

[Bill Simmons]

I have five things. Dad's driving their babysitter home. I just don't think that happens anymore.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, dad's.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's a 2011 thing.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, so you don't. You don't think that dads drive people home that they have a connection with?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think they drive the 18 year old babysitter home. I don't think. I don't think. I think that only happens in movies.

[Mina Kimes]

What's the point is if a dad was to drive somebody home that was like 19 or 20 or something like that, that, that would be like an odd thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. I think you would just pay for their Uber.

[Van Lathan]

Don't put yourself in that situation.

[Mina Kimes]

I think we would just. You would just pay for their Uber and not drive them to Santa Monica. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you make it a concert. That's different.

[Craig]

I couldn't tell if he was. He knew the whole time.

[Mina Kimes]

He didn't fucking get where I was going with it. Or if he was playing along with the bit. This is what the re apex brings you. You never know what pitch he's throwing.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, you're paying for The Uber in 2026. Period.

[Van Lathan]

Was that. I have to ask now, was that ride more sexually charged than when are they not.

[Bill Simmons]

Like this was.

[Van Lathan]

This is a recurring movie.

[Bill Simmons]

The concan nipple thing.

[Van Lathan]

Like what was the energy like compared to the ride with Steve Caron as babysitter?

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's probably worse. Sexually charged. More 2011 stuff. Seeing the new Twilight movie by yourself. A text about how Demi Moore and

[Van Lathan]

Ashton Kutcher are happy on a not a Palm Pilot. Was the LG Sidekick, I believe.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Answering machine messages. Those are gone.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then obviously a babysitter giving nude photos to a 14 year old as a plot device, which we'll talk about in another category.

[Mina Kimes]

What age is the worst? I didn't know what to put there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What's age the best.

[Mina Kimes]

Best I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

Other than the early 2000s Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling, what do you got?

[Mina Kimes]

Choosing between couples and the divorce as age the best. It feels like you're asked to do this once every six months in Los Angeles.

[Bill Simmons]

It honestly could be a game show

[Mina Kimes]

that I would watch a game show

[Bill Simmons]

where they the couples make the case and then the couple that stayed together has to pick between the two people.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, you should take that out of the podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you mean?

[Mina Kimes]

You should take that out of the podcast and you should put that together.

[Bill Simmons]

Just sell it to. Who'd buy that.

[Van Lathan]

That feels like a recurring snl.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like Hulu crossed with like, I don't know, Judge Judy.

[Mina Kimes]

Right? Like that's actually okay. And something else has aged the best. And I gotta be honest with you, man, this is maybe one of the things that's aged the best of anything in my entire rewatchables career. The Westfield Century City Mall.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. Yes.

[Mina Kimes]

It is one of the last best mall in LA and most beautiful.

[Craig]

Best mall in period, maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Around it is. Particularly after remodel. That place is.

[Van Lathan]

Oh my God, outdoor. I could spend 14 hours there and

[Mina Kimes]

be happy everyone is around. I saw this somebody tweet and say that they said that everyone is talking about the fact that the mall is dead, but they haven't told that to the Westfield Century City Center Mall.

[Van Lathan]

Y' all haven't been to a real mall.

[Mina Kimes]

It's almost a place that if you're visiting in town paradise, people tell you Hollywood signs.

[Van Lathan]

Westfield Century City Mall.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a top 10 LA attraction at this point.

[Van Lathan]

I just went to our friend Dave Tankson. Super Peach. Yeah, the food, the selection of stores, the vibes, the layouts.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus by the way, perfect mall. Outdoor mall.

[Mina Kimes]

Outdoor mall.

[Van Lathan]

Outdoor mall. Beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

Grove started it. Westfield Century City finished it.

[Van Lathan]

The Grove can't even sniff Westfield Century City Mall.

[Mina Kimes]

I feel like the Grove Westfield Century City Mall looked at the Grove and went okay. Cause they remember, they did a big remodel and they like, that is a

[Bill Simmons]

Ben Simmons went there for like 18 straight months in 10th grade.

[Van Lathan]

I was a 17 year old living in Los Angeles.

[Bill Simmons]

So much stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

And it's crazy because there are other malls that we used to go through here.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a cousin to what you just said. I think this is also a really good Valley movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, there's some good.

[Bill Simmons]

You definitely feel like you're in Valley slash LA adjacent. Yeah, that's good.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a good call.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

You don't get that a lot I had.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the kid performance is good by the 14 year old.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, he's good.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually think he's effective and it doesn't feel like he should be, but his name's Jonah Bobo.

[Van Lathan]

A little too much. But that's not his fault.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's. It's kind of how it's written.

[Mina Kimes]

The. The Linden Hagen scene, like really sealed

[Van Lathan]

it for him in the office.

[Mina Kimes]

He was hysterical in that.

[Bill Simmons]

I had for what stage the best Kevin Bacon as a romantic antagonist.

[Van Lathan]

This.

[Bill Simmons]

He's. He'll do this once every nine, ten years. And most famously in the Jennifer Aniston movie Picture Perfect, which is awful, but kind of great.

[Van Lathan]

Saw that in the theater.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, great. That's what Jay Morris won at bat in a rom com. But. But he's good every once in a while. It's just like a smarmy. Don't like this guy. He's a scumbag, but he's really. He knows how to do that. I like when the mom complains about that we're still reading the Scarlet Letter. I just thought that was funny. She's like, you're still reading that? They haven't done better than the Scarlet Letter. Because I think I feel that way when I hear the books that my kids read in high school.

[Mina Kimes]

Like really?

[Craig]

It's also what Easy A is about.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Foreshadowing. And then I liked when he said, the war between the sexes is over. We won. The second woman started doing pole dancing for Exorcist.

[Mina Kimes]

Hilarious.

[Van Lathan]

And then he's like, but we still have to respect them.

[Mina Kimes]

Age abyss. The term cuckold.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. I don't even. I don't even think that was really around in a full way in 2011, was it? But it was kind of starting right.

[Mina Kimes]

It was funny.

[Bill Simmons]

It was early cuck.

[Mina Kimes]

All that stuff is a part. What's age?

[Craig]

The worst is the line they say, Steve Carl says, nobody says this anymore, but I'm a cuckold. Which has aged the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

Because now everybody says that.

[Van Lathan]

Great use of bang in this movie too. When Emma's stones, like, now we're gonna bang. And he's like, who says bang anymore? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other would say the best for you.

[Van Lathan]

I think just generally the jokes in this movie have aged really well. And I often struggle with two. That was like 1995 through 2015 comedy. Sometimes when I go back and rewatch it, there's so many off little. Like. There's obviously the big physical comedic moments rolling out of the car, the punching, all that but there's a lot of really good side comments and jokes. And like, even the scene where, like, everyone at the office cheers when they find out he doesn't have cancer.

[Mina Kimes]

That is funny.

[Van Lathan]

Funny, right? Little things you forget when you rewatch it. And yeah, I think it's a very funny movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple quick categories. Great shot, Gordo, for most cinematic shot. I mentioned it before when Steve Carell and Julian Morris sitting in the chairs far apart with the chair between them. It's just really, really nice shot. There's some distance, but Big Kahuna Burger award for best use of food and drink has to be the vodka cranberries.

[Mina Kimes]

Vodka cranberries, perfect drinks. But this is a both of those. This makes you want to go to a la bar and drink movies because so much of it happens in bars. The bars look very elegant. They look very clean. They're very cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Better than they probably are in real life. In LA.

[Mina Kimes]

2010.

[Bill Simmons]

11. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't think we're sets.

[Bill Simmons]

This bar did not exist in 2011.

[Van Lathan]

It feels like a hotel bar kind of vibe. I don't think I ever thought. I never looked sideways at a man drinking out of straw until this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

I'm like, oh, of course. Naturally, when we drag out of straw. But then when Ryan Gosling points out when he's drinking the vodka crayon with the straw, how it looks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Craig]

Let me tell you something. Straws are phallic from this movie was a real thing. And all my friends joked about that. And to this day, we don't really drink straws. You drink drinks with straws.

[Bill Simmons]

Put the straw in the bar.

[Craig]

In this movie, no straws.

[Van Lathan]

And men aren't allowed to drink girl cocktails.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no.

[Craig]

Vodka crank straws.

[Mina Kimes]

I'll go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like when they give me the straw. Chess. Rockwell Brocklander's award for best character name has to be David Lindhagen. It's really fun. I don't know how you spell it. I spelled it I L, I L, I N, D. H, O. Double G. Double G. I think it's a double G'. Er. But you could also tell me it's H, A, G, E, N. I don't know. I don't know what Lindhagen is.

[Van Lathan]

I told Bill before we started taping that I've been having to say Tyler Linderbaum, who's like the top free agent center all week. And I said Tyler Lindhagen on television because I was so steeped in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That's great.

[Van Lathan]

The reveal at the moment at the end when the cop says his name wrong and they all correct him is very funny Kid Cudi.

[Bill Simmons]

Pursuit of happiness where best needle drop is obviously I've had the time of my life. And then we'll take one more break and then we have a Van Lathan award. This episode is brought to you by TikTok. TikTok actually gives parents the visibility control they need to help shape an environment that makes sense for their teens. For starters, teens under 18 have a 60 minute screen time reminder in place. And with family pairing, parents can set their own limits, see their teens followers who they follow and help restrict content that's not right for them. Because with peace of mind in place, discovery and creativity can follow. Learn [e-mail] GuardiansGuide this episode is brought

[Craig]

to you by the Focus Features film Hamnet. From director Chloe Zhao and producer Steven Spielberg and Sam Mendez. AFI Hales. Hamnet lifts the audience high above humanity. And now the Golden Globe winner for best picture of the year has been nominated for eight Academy Awards, including best Actress Jessie Buckley and best picture of the Year.

[Bill Simmons]

Hamnet.

[Craig]

Our stories live forever. Ready? PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13 now playing in theaters everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, the Van Lathan award. Did this movie need more black people. We don't get to give this out all the time, but I really appreciate

[Mina Kimes]

when we give it out, we in this. Normally it doesn't apply, but it does in this situation. But for one character, David Lynhagen should have been black.

[Bill Simmons]

So who do you cast him as?

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, so I looked this up.

[Bill Simmons]

Little Idris Elba.

[Mina Kimes]

No, too sexy. That's so weird. That was the name that jumped right out at.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right when he was starting to.

[Mina Kimes]

Right. But I'm saying K. Diggs.

[Bill Simmons]

So too handsome.

[Mina Kimes]

So what I did was I went to the year that Kevin Bacon was actually born, which is 1958.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you really went for this. I did.

[Mina Kimes]

And I went for other actors, black actors that were born in that same year. And I have a quick little list, so. Ice T. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. That's a no. You sure? Yeah, I'm gonna go. No.

[Mina Kimes]

An St. Kenan Ivory Wayans would have been good.

[Van Lathan]

That works.

[Bill Simmons]

He made like five less movies than I wanted him to make.

[Mina Kimes]

He's just a fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

Should have been in more. More things.

[Van Lathan]

You're in the right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

There's one more.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that one though.

[Mina Kimes]

There's one more. 1958. April 26, 1958. Giancarlo Esposito as David.

[Van Lathan]

You can't.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. Lynn Hobby.

[Van Lathan]

No, you can't do that.

[Mina Kimes]

I like it. I like it. I like him. I like a little bit more of a sinister Lyn Hagen.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Mina Kimes]

Y' all haven't seen about Giancarlo.

[Bill Simmons]

When he puts it together, he can't be sinister.

[Mina Kimes]

He's a. He's a little Giancarlo.

[Van Lathan]

When has he ever not played an evil person?

[Mina Kimes]

I don't think there's ever been a time where he hasn't. But he. But he's. It could work. Giancarlo is there.

[Bill Simmons]

Do we have to apologize for Blair to Blair Underwood here?

[Mina Kimes]

Blair Underwood would be.

[Van Lathan]

The reason Kevin Bacon works is because he's just the right amount of Phantom words. It's believable that he would be an accountant. It's believable that the woman would sleep with him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And it's also believable that he's not an asshole. I actually think this is why it can't be Esposito and you don't want him to be sinister. One of the funniest things about the movie is that he, like, is like kind of like a nice, normal dude who legitimately likes Julianne Moore.

[Mina Kimes]

Dennis Haysbert as Lyn Hoggin.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's too old.

[Mina Kimes]

He's too. He's too old at that point.

[Bill Simmons]

He's too old.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, he's too old. Okay. Well, I'm telling you, if you're gonna make one character in the movie black, that's the character you made black.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we test drive Chris Rock?

[Van Lathan]

Chris Rock chews up too much scene as Lyn Hagen.

[Mina Kimes]

Then you gotta give him a little bit more.

[Bill Simmons]

Then you give him, like, yeah, you let him ad lib one scene with the little kid.

[Mina Kimes]

But that could work. The movie goes to another funny level if you do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina has a flex category.

[Van Lathan]

So I forgot the exact name of this. Let me pull it up. It's the title one. Can you find the.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Did this movie need a better title?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so this, I think, is the only thing that's really bad about this movie, is the title.

[Bill Simmons]

It's so funny. I had this as the next category and I put it in, not knowing you were gonna do this. So go.

[Van Lathan]

The title and the poster are. So. It's amazing. I mean, it obviously was a box office hit because the actors and.

[Bill Simmons]

It's one of the worst titles of the last 20 years.

[Van Lathan]

Horrible title.

[Bill Simmons]

Steve Carell actually said he hated it and was against it and said nobody is gonna say a group of College guys would not say five tickets to Crazy Stupid Love. We can't do this.

[Van Lathan]

It's also odd.

[Bill Simmons]

Couldn't figure it out.

[Van Lathan]

The poster is the Marisa Tomei through the legs. You're looking at him like it doesn't really, I feel like capture what the movie's about.

[Craig]

But yeah, Mark, it's sex comedy.

[Van Lathan]

Yes, exactly. You look at it, you think this is 40 year old version and it's just not.

[Bill Simmons]

It's title on it I thought was actually really good. The Wingman.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good title.

[Mina Kimes]

But it's. But do you know what the funny thing about the movie is? I think the title works only for me. I get almost tracks the like narrative arc of the movie. The movie starts off crazy stupid, then it gets stupid and then the love comes at the end. I'm serious. But like.

[Bill Simmons]

And that actually does make sense.

[Van Lathan]

That's probably how they end. Like I think you're probably on something there.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. So like it does work. But. But there's so much happening like the Wingman. It's almost. It's a difficult movie to title because like the wingman is literally only one part of the film.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you what I would have called it?

[Van Lathan]

Okay. As the king of titles, I have an idea too.

[Bill Simmons]

The best title person ever. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

You are good at titles.

[Bill Simmons]

The makeover.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

See my idea.

[Mina Kimes]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's pretty good.

[Craig]

It's not bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Makeover.

[Van Lathan]

What if we called it the Makeover?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the idea.

[Mina Kimes]

Meaning that no one ever thought of before.

[Van Lathan]

All right. No, no. Okay. My idea. My idea is different, isn't it?

[Bill Simmons]

What is it?

[Van Lathan]

How to pick up women. Because he literally picks up Emma Stone.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Double scene in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty good.

[Mina Kimes]

I'll tell you what, that was in

[Bill Simmons]

the era of the long titles.

[Mina Kimes]

I'll tell you what. Five college guys are gonna go watch the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

How to pick up women. They are. That's pretty good.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe you can't say how to lose the guy. Maybe you can't do too many.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. The Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. Somehow we're still not at the photos. I'm gonna.

[Mina Kimes]

It's the dog. The babysitter.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make a case for something else and put the photos in different category? This really bothers me. Craig, you're gonna love this. Hannah's just never gonna run into her dad at this bar. It's never happened.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh. Cause she went here.

[Bill Simmons]

I have some dad stuff because I'm thinking about if I had like if this is Zoe three years from now, right. And my wife leaves me and now I'm at singles bars. But my daughter is of the age where she would go out. This would be half my conversations. I can't. That girl's my daughter's age. I can't talk to her. That, that. I just feel like that would be omnipresent in the movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Is this all the same bar?

[Craig]

It's my biggest issue in the movie is that they go to the same. Ryan Gosling goes to the same bar like four nights a week.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Emma Stone is going to this bar. Steve Carell goes to this bar. There's one.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, Ryan Gosling goes back. Except for the one time, sure.

[Craig]

But Ryan Gosling lives in that bar.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a huge nitpick.

[Van Lathan]

I also don't think there'd be a bar in LA. In LA where 20 somethings and 40 somethings both go to pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Impossible. It would switch. You would be. You'd be a 40 something bar until like 8 o' clock and then it would switch to.

[Craig]

It's an unrealistic.

[Bill Simmons]

I sadly know this now because of my daughter, but it would switch ages, probably around 8 o'. Clock.

[Craig]

And why he's just going to God every night.

[Mina Kimes]

I've been dealing with this at the ringer. Cause I hang out. So I hang out, I'm at the ringer, I'm at the office at Spotify, working all the time. And I'm talking to everybody, right? And let's be honest, I'm 20 years older than these people. I'm fucking 20 years older than Joan.

[Bill Simmons]

Baby. Yeah, 15 to 20, whatever.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm 20 years older than these. 15, whatever. And then, you know, somebody will go. We hang out all the time, we talk, we're working, we're talking about, hey, Vans, my birthday. Come to my birthday and I go like, yeah, like I'll come to your

[Bill Simmons]

birthday and then your uncle Van.

[Mina Kimes]

And then I'm at fucking 4116 in Silver Lake and I look around and it takes me like 15 minutes to go. I'm that fucking guy. Like, I can't do this.

[Bill Simmons]

I went through this during the Grantland era when we had like Rembert and all those guys. And I would go out and it was the same realization, like, oh shit,

[Mina Kimes]

just look at everyone.

[Bill Simmons]

But for me it was like, thank God I'm on TV and I can at least get away with people like being like, hey, you're on tv.

[Mina Kimes]

That happens. That happens as well.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the one way you can get around it.

[Mina Kimes]

That doesn't change the way, like, you know, I'm sitting there talking to a group of people. It's like, oh, we moved out here from Icatha College together. We've been out here like a year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's a specific generation gap.

[Van Lathan]

You can feel it while we're on this. This is the thing I always have trouble understanding if you're the old guy at the bar. I understand why older men want to pick up younger women and for some want to be with younger women, but I cannot fathom them wanting to be the oldest guy at a bar. That's for 20 somethings. Like, when you see that, I, I always think that, well, how about the

[Bill Simmons]

oldest guy at a bar where people are the age of your daughter, who's single, who could potentially show up at the bar?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

This should be hanging over the entire movie.

[Van Lathan]

Just in la, you're in this, Craig. Like there's people don't go to the same place a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

No, there's 400 bars, maybe a restaurant,

[Van Lathan]

but not a bar.

[Mina Kimes]

And if he's. And he's. And he is just harvesting this place right nightly. He like, he, he is like, that's, that's gonna be around everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, this fucking guy again.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Like, that's why I was going to

[Bill Simmons]

do this later for the casting, the recatch part. But like, I actually would not have this movie in la. Even though I think it's a Great Valley movie. It really should be in like Phoenix.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or some, some place that would make more sense that they would go to the same place all the time. So you have the weak link for we can do it now. And the. What's age the worst, the. All the babysitter stuff, it just wouldn't fly now. Like just period giving the photos to the 8th grader at the end. I just don't think they would do it. Yeah, I understand why they did it because it's really. The movie's through the point of view of the sun. Basically it ends with a shot on the sun. This is his story about. Basically my parents broke up and now they're back together and it's his journey. And I'm in love with my babysitter. And I can see how it made sense in 2011. I just think now they would be like, no way, you're not. We're not doing that.

[Mina Kimes]

You're putting that in a goddamn movie. No way. Like you.

[Bill Simmons]

But in 2011, I can't say I was like, oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

I'm trying to remember how I felt at the time.

[Mina Kimes]

Because back then, it almost. It never was. Back then you would see stuff like that in.

[Bill Simmons]

We were in on the joke.

[Mina Kimes]

It was in on the joke.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, no way.

[Mina Kimes]

See stuff like that and it never was.

[Bill Simmons]

This would be like a 2,500 word slate piece the next day.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, you can't do this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Plus, it's just different now with the Internet.

[Van Lathan]

Like, that's what I was saying. Now I'm watching. I'm like, that little kid's gonna upload that.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think I felt that way in. I also think it's not believable that she's in love with Steve Carell, the babysitter.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that for nitpicks.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

I didn't see that.

[Bill Simmons]

Especially like that version of the size 44. Doesn't care how he looks like. She's not like, this is my dream guy.

[Van Lathan]

It's like when she does the thing with the photo at the beginning, I'm like, come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's not. It's a pretty big stretch. The other woods. Oh, that's it. That's all I had. For what stage is the worst? Did you have any, like, just.

[Mina Kimes]

Just young people interested in having sex with other people and willing to talk to them to make it happen?

[Craig]

Is that what you notice when you're going out with ringer people?

[Mina Kimes]

They're fine, but like every, like, you know, the ringer, they're fine, but this

[Bill Simmons]

is like a lot of angst.

[Mina Kimes]

There's a lot of angst out in these.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think this would be an AI bar now. People bring their phone with their AI companions.

[Mina Kimes]

People trying to. There. There's a lot of. Just seems to be a lot of angst. Seems to be a lot of angst about how you can talk to somebody when you're supposed to talk to someone. Not cross. Like, it seems to be a lot of consternation for a lot of people about how you talk to another person and then have sex with them.

[Van Lathan]

And what's supposed to be hiccup culture at bars generally is just not what it was in 2011, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, you can't. You know, this is. You just gotta have to keep handing off and running it into between the tackles. That's kind of the move you. You can't. There's no play action anymore, I don't think in 2026. Just like safe ground game.

[Mina Kimes]

But.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I wonder about that all the time. How did people how did people connect? Craig's out of the game. He missed it.

[Van Lathan]

But is it okay? I'm gonna mount one more defense for Ryan Gosling at a moment where to be like a. Like a male pickup artist now is like. Like, you know, Jester maxing on the street, like, crunching down your bones and shitting on women or whatever. I'm too old, obviously. I don't understand. Isn't there something, like, a little bit nostalgic about, like, watching a dude just, like, you know, like you said, run between the tackles, like, going into the bars and doing the thing?

[Mina Kimes]

A misguided night.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. A misguided night.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Craig]

The fear of embarrassment is higher now than it's ever been. And I don't know if that's because of social media.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Craig]

But people don't want to be shot down.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

It goes wrong.

[Mina Kimes]

And if somebody goes on Twitter and goes, I fucking went out with this guy or this girl and look how terrible. Like, yeah. Or there's videos, all kinds of.

[Craig]

She's Gon's character is volume shooting in this movie. And I still know guys who do that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

But it's. It's becoming more and more rare because you get exposed for it, and there's just, like, a shame in doing it. That's just wasn't there back then.

[Van Lathan]

Especially if you do at the same bar every night.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Craig]

With your same old fashioned way.

[Bill Simmons]

Less tolerance for mistakes, which in some cases is good, but in other cases is not. And I think that seems like that's the difference. You have a flex category?

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, yeah. My flex category is just. It's called Damn, he got it. And let me tell you what the category is.

[Van Lathan]

It's a new one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like, you know, you're a heterosexual guy, but you look at it, you

[Bill Simmons]

gotta hand it to him.

[Mina Kimes]

You gotta hand it to him, man. Like, damn. He got. You know what I mean? Starts off with Lorenz Tate and Love Jones. I remember looking at that movie and being like, oh, man, I'm not gonna lie. This nigga got it. Four is Ryan Gosling. Not Crazy Stupid Love, though. Drive.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Mina Kimes]

I looked at, like, drive, the strong silent killer. I'm like, ah, man, I'm not gonna lie. Ryan Gosling got it, man. Third one might be a surprise for you guys. Will Smith hit.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, fully.

[Mina Kimes]

You like that?

[Van Lathan]

Damn, he got it.

[Mina Kimes]

I knew it. He got. See you look at Will, man.

[Van Lathan]

That's such an underrated romantic comedy, too.

[Mina Kimes]

Peak of his power.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife was just watching this while she Was making granola the other day and she was just like, this movie's great. Yeah. Why haven't you done this on rewatchables yet? Was it actually really good?

[Mina Kimes]

You just look at him. He's totally confident. He's got all the rules out. His will say he got it, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Him and hitch and then him and focus. Now I just look back nostalgically. Like I look back at drake May's first 17 weeks this season. I'm like, oh, man. Remember when he could throw the deep ball and roll out? That was fucking awesome.

[Mina Kimes]

Number two, Brad Pitt.

[Bill Simmons]

Now a lot of people couple different eras for this.

[Mina Kimes]

Couple different eras. What would you guys say is the Brad Pitt. He got it.

[Bill Simmons]

Number one. This is a multi era.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, is it messed up for me that it's Fight Club?

[Mina Kimes]

No, that's. See, a lot of people would say

[Van Lathan]

that these are so hot.

[Bill Simmons]

But initially it was Thelma and Louise was that made him a star.

[Mina Kimes]

Mina, I'll just tell you something. Mina, I'm learning a lot about you. Yeah, you like the. Of all the Brad pit guys.

[Bill Simmons]

She's fight gravitates to the naughtier stuff. Well, I guess, but that's the whole point of that movie.

[Van Lathan]

But it's like I don't like just

[Bill Simmons]

a man's man in that movie.

[Van Lathan]

The fact that it's such a toxic, mixed up role and you're still like,

[Mina Kimes]

see, I'm telling you. I'm telling you. But it's actually for me, Legends of the Fall.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, with the hair. I can't do that.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna do that during drama that's now Comedy Month.

[Mina Kimes]

Drama. That's not Comedy Month of the Fall.

[Bill Simmons]

We're doing that Regarding Henry. Can't wait. Regarding Henry is hilarious though. Have you seen Regarding Henry lately?

[Mina Kimes]

I haven't.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of the funniest movies the last 35 years.

[Van Lathan]

I think the phenomena you're describing is there's a thing in like with athletes too, where when a guy's just so unobjectively. Got it.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That men become comfortable talking about how handsome and cool he is.

[Mina Kimes]

You got it.

[Van Lathan]

It's like when everyone was like, yeah, so we're just gonna all talk about Jimmy Garoppolo's like weirdly the best looking person we've ever seen and he just happens to be a quarterback. And men are so comfortable saying that. And they don't even say no homo after. They're just like, you know. Which is true.

[Mina Kimes]

Me and Jimmy also have similar tastes in Women, so. And then

[Craig]

I got it.

[Mina Kimes]

Did you get that one? I threw them out there. Sometimes. Sometimes they don't. They don't work.

[Bill Simmons]

I got it too.

[Mina Kimes]

O. Number one, Billy Dee Williams, Lady Sings the Blues.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Billy Dee Williams, deep cutting.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, man. Cause I looked around. Cause there's a lot of other guys. There's an era there that's like, you have, like, Brando in some of those movies. You have Robert Redford, but Billy Dee Williams, the Lady Sings the Blues is just about the coolest guy that has ever lived. You got it, man. That's the list.

[Van Lathan]

It's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a couple others I'd like Robert there, I think Redford for. There's a couple different movies for him with this. From the seventies. No, the. The. The way we were in Gatsby, I think. I think he was in that.

[Van Lathan]

Clooney. And out of Sight

[Mina Kimes]

is a great one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

While we're here, is Gosling the closest we have to Clooney? Under.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's where I wanted Clooney's career to go, but I. I don't. For a variety of reasons, it didn't quite happen happen. And I think part of it was he was older.

[Mina Kimes]

We grew up with gossip. Clooney is a Bigger than Ryan. No, you think that Ryan Gosling.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm saying I wanted the choices.

[Van Lathan]

Ryan's.

[Bill Simmons]

I wish Clooney's career went the way Gosling's did.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I love.

[Mina Kimes]

Clooney's bigger than Gosling.

[Craig]

He's more famous, but his career is not.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. If you actually go through his movies, his batting average is not Clooney.

[Mina Kimes]

You feel that way?

[Bill Simmons]

I do. I really do.

[Mina Kimes]

But, like, he has Michael Clayton.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's got Michael out of sight. The oceans, movies.

[Van Lathan]

Up in the air.

[Bill Simmons]

Up in the air.

[Mina Kimes]

Up in the air.

[Van Lathan]

What's the movie? Reasonable.

[Bill Simmons]

We're kind of done at that point. Oh, the Descendants is good. All right. So there's five.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know, but he's Gosling's. Gosling's 15 years younger than him, though.

[Mina Kimes]

No, no, Gosling still has time. That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Gosling still has time, but he's similar to him. Same, like, cool, sexy guys. Recognize that.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll do another quarterback analogy. Clooney, to me, is Kurt Warner. Just started late, missed his entire 20s.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because she's gone.

[Bill Simmons]

He's just in failed shows for 10 years. Can't get on a good show, and then finally gets er.

[Van Lathan]

So it was like a.

[Bill Simmons]

In his 30s.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Gosling was in. Remember the Titans. He's like 8, 19.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, he was a big mouth.

[Van Lathan]

What was Clooney's fail? Like, what's his Arena Football League?

[Bill Simmons]

That's all the shows he did. He was.

[Mina Kimes]

He was. He was around.

[Bill Simmons]

He was. In fact, he was. In fact, he was.

[Mina Kimes]

He was in. First of all, no. No disrespect to the Facts of Life. Shout out Ken Phils and everybody. He was in the Facts of Life reboot, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's right.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah. He was in the. They brought the Facts of Life cast back.

[Van Lathan]

That's wild.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is why Clooney's such a great guy. Because. Because he failed until he was like 32. Which most actors it gets handed success. John Hamm's another one.

[Van Lathan]

Later in life tend to be either cooler or violently in the opposite direction.

[Bill Simmons]

Adam Scott Bros. Paul Rudd, even though he was in Clueless, but he really wasn't as successful after that for another 10 years. He's another one. But these guys that they bloom later, I think it's better for them. So Billy D. Williams, number one. Number one, slight suck up to Tracy.

[Mina Kimes]

No, it's not. Well, it could be, but. No, but you know why it's not? It's cause Billy Dee Williams and Lady Sings the Blues was the only one that ever made. Like my dad, which was like just, you know, my dad is not what you would call woke. That wasn't his thing. Cowboy had big gun on his side. But Billy Dee Wood, like, that's my father. My dad looked at Billy D. Woodley. Ah, damn, son, you something else, huh? He's something else, son.

[Van Lathan]

Isn't it freeing?

[Mina Kimes]

You have the moment, huh?

[Van Lathan]

Whenever I feel like, when I literally have noticed this, when men talk about Garoppolo or when you ask, there's nothing that men in sports love more than ranking the top five hottest NFL players. And I feel like it's freeing. There's. I'm telling you, it's been a lot of conversations I've had. Bill, like, you wouldn't love it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to remember the NFL Live segment.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying, men, they've all been thinking about it, but they don't have permission to talk about it. And there's something about a guy who's so unequivocally cool. And Hanson, where you feel this permission to comp. Because women, we're always like, she's gorgeous, she's stunning. She looks amazing. Whatever. You don't get to do that as

[Bill Simmons]

much as a manifest. Your opinions on that though. Not yours.

[Mina Kimes]

All women and you get.

[Van Lathan]

Isn't it freeing though, like what you're saying?

[Mina Kimes]

You're overwhelmed.

[Van Lathan]

Undeniable.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Women try to sell certain women as being great looking. No, but. No, no. When they're like, no, she's great. She's great. No, but they try to sell certain ones but they don't like other ones. Like Jennifer Love Hewitt text us. They would never accept.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, she was too threatening. She was too threatening.

[Bill Simmons]

No one Shaban knows where I'm going. There were some that wouldn't try to

[Mina Kimes]

throw you off the scent a little bit, but they don't understand that we're on the scent.

[Van Lathan]

This is why people always say this about Sydney now, right? Like women don't like her because she's too threatening. Which I don't actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Women don't like her. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean that's a lot of other stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll say one thing about Billy Dee Williams. Oh, here we go.

[Mina Kimes]

Go. I'm into it.

[Bill Simmons]

He was doing those cult 45 ads when I was a kid. I knew nothing. I was like, that guy's cool. Remember those ads? He was like the coolest person on the planet. Like, yeah, he was best that guy were John Carol lynch not eligible.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, he's not eligible.

[Van Lathan]

Permanent status of that guy.

[Mina Kimes]

Anybody then I have someone for us. Who?

[Bill Simmons]

Lisa Laer as Liz, Emma Stone's friend.

[Van Lathan]

Good call.

[Bill Simmons]

She's from Fast and furious. The fourth one.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she was in 2121. And then she's been in a bunch of stuff, but I never knew what her name was.

[Mina Kimes]

She pretty as hell.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's good.

[Van Lathan]

Funny. So fun. Her. Some of her line deliveries in this movie are great, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

I couldn't find any casting what ifs. I think the movie hasn't been out long enough yet where they can start making up stuff and being like Jake Gyllenhaal was supposed to be the lead. Yeah, we just haven't had enough info. Dion Waiter's award is clearly Marisa Tomei easily. She's in three scenes. Yeah, just killing it. I mentioned for a recasting couch director city. I would put this movie in Phoenix or Scottsdale somewhere or Philly. Well, I was thinking like somewhere warmer because you where you could have an outdoor mall. So we could go like Irvine. Go like that area.

[Van Lathan]

I'm outside Irvine from Scottsdale, by the way. I know. This is from Arizona rare.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you have a flex book about

[Craig]

medals award Belatedly best quote or what's the most 2011 thing about this movie? It can be both. It's a throwaway line that I have not realized until this most recent rewatch. It's when Robbie the kid is walking his mom blindfolded down the stairs and she's kind of nervous and he goes, mom, relax. It's your husband, not Al Qaeda.

[Van Lathan]

Is that the most 2011 thing about the movie?

[Craig]

13 year old boy thing to say in 2011? Bin Laden was killed three months before that movie came out.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Craig]

Yeah. It is just like perfectly like something a 13 year old would think is funny and relevant.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. And by the way, she's in a blindfold, so it's like the whole nine.

[Craig]

And you just kind of move right past that and it goes right to Carel at like the little mini golf thing. And you just don't even know about that line.

[Mina Kimes]

That is good.

[Bill Simmons]

That is.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good one. It is very.

[Mina Kimes]

Did we go past hottest take?

[Craig]

No, you didn't.

[Van Lathan]

We dropped a few.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you didn't get one. Go, you do yours.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

I think this movie asks an interesting question.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Does marriage need a halftime?

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

We gotta talk about this. Cause I have another question for you about it.

[Mina Kimes]

So let's think about what happens in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Like with a Super bowl show.

[Mina Kimes]

So tell me. Let's think about what happens in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

A long halftime.

[Mina Kimes]

So you have everything else that's really good that we all love has a halftime.

[Craig]

This is some of your best work, fam.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. It has a halftime.

[Van Lathan]

We go. No, I'm so excited to talk about this.

[Mina Kimes]

First half, there's a whole narrative. Then you stop for a little while, go do your own thing. Okay. You regroup and then you come back in and you finish the game. It'll never work in this movie. Right here. What essentially happens in this movie, what this movie actually is, is the story of a marriage halftime. The halftime is initiated by the Julianne Moore character. She needs something else. Lyn Hagen provides the fucking spark.

[Bill Simmons]

Lynn Hog. He's hogging it.

[Mina Kimes]

He's hogging it up. He provides the spark. Then that triggers the halftime of the Steve Carell character. A guy who had only been with one woman. He goes and he gets with nine women. Brings him the ten. Double digits, respectable. Now he can come. Now he can come back out and they can finish the marriage game having had a little halftime. Does it? This is the marriage halftime story of our times.

[Van Lathan]

The two married people here.

[Mina Kimes]

Three.

[Van Lathan]

Three. Okay. Do you Guys know any married people who have separated a break, dated other people, like, prolifically and then got back together? I do not. Like in JLo.

[Bill Simmons]

I only know people that dated for a long time in like, high school slash college. Broke up.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And then got back together and married.

[Van Lathan]

It doesn't really count.

[Bill Simmons]

Which happened to a couple friends. But that was not a marriage halftime.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, telling you, you guys think about this.

[Craig]

It would never work.

[Mina Kimes]

So think about this. Think about it. You get in, you get. They are 25 years in. Guys, they're 25 years in. Take a quick halftime. Draw up some new players.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's the problem.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, there's a very fundamental problem. There's a major issue.

[Bill Simmons]

What if one of the two people enjoy halftime a little too much?

[Van Lathan]

9 women is too many. That's my take here. No, no, I thought about this watching the movie.

[Craig]

He goes hard.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, if they had both cheated with one person, I think it split.

[Bill Simmons]

But how many months do we think is going on here? Like four.

[Mina Kimes]

But Mina, here's the problem with that, though. Only one of them cheated, right? So to me, the question is, how much, how many people is one cheat worth?

[Craig]

Well, the marriage halftime would have to be a conscious decision that you both are going to now see other people. It can't start with one person cheating. This is not a halftime.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a bad start.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a halftime. But what I'm saying is this movie is actually talking about the fact their

[Van Lathan]

love endured the halftime for the purpose of the movie. Her cheating as the catalyst for everything is very important because it gives us license to still like him because she was the original sin. So him having sex with nine women, as viewers, we're like, you know what? It's the get back. You know, like, the cheater, cheater earned it inside the relationship. It doesn't add up that way. Even if she was the cheater, it's not like, okay, cool, you've slept with nine women. It just wouldn't.

[Craig]

The amount of screaming matches that would take place at dinner with, like, you fucked Lyn Hoggin first. Well, you fucked nine women after that.

[Van Lathan]

It's like, it would never work.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it works in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

She also dates Lyn Haggin.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a slight tilt on this, though, because she's allegedly the villain. But he kind of drives her to the cheat.

[Mina Kimes]

That's the thing.

[Van Lathan]

And realizes that in a weird way, he's kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he stopped trying in the marriage and drove her to David fucking Lindhog. And it sucks.

[Mina Kimes]

They're at a restaurant at the beginning of the movie. He looks terrible. The restaurant looks fucking terrible. He ate too much. He wants to split his dessert. He's not even man enough for dessert.

[Bill Simmons]

He's going to go home and have some Tums.

[Mina Kimes]

He's going to fuck the whole house. Yeah, it's like, it's like. And so she's had enough of that. What they really needed though, just a break. Halftime, a quick break and then they come back to you.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so best celebrity halftime ever was probably JLo and Ben Affleck. They took like a 20 year halftime. But that didn't work out.

[Mina Kimes]

Didn't work out.

[Van Lathan]

I think when a man and women get back together and I have known people and I've known of people, it's never, never is the case where the man went out, had sex with a ton of women. It's the man going out and realizing

[Mina Kimes]

that he can't do anymore.

[Van Lathan]

That's how it happens. That's how halftime plays out when you're middle aged. He doesn't belong in the streets.

[Mina Kimes]

He can't do it anymore.

[Van Lathan]

You don't want to be out here. Like the famous.

[Mina Kimes]

Put the ball on the tee, kick it back up.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the Phil Rivers come back.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Can kind of drive the ball to the 20.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Half asset research. So I. This is so weird. It has to be true. Emma Stone, the first time she got lifted up, she had like a full scale meltdown that Gosling described as opossum falling out of a tree and trying to scratch her eyes out. She ran away crying, had to calm down. And it turned out when she was seven years old she fell off the high bars in gymnastics and broke. Broke both of her arms and had like a PTSD flashback. And they had to use a body double.

[Craig]

Yeah. Because they cut away. They're outside the rooms and you can't really tell.

[Bill Simmons]

So you can see it when you watch the movie. It's like an obvious. It's not her. They cut away really far away and then do this like jump cut to her. Really weird. Emma Stone was three days older in real life than the babysitter. Oh, interesting locations in the movie. Other than the Century City ball, most all Ventura Boulevard, Hollywood Hills, Taft High School, Grant High School in B El Torito Grill at the Sherman Oaks Galleria and Equinox in Woodland Hills. Played all the hits. I don't know where. Where. What's that part of when you go over the hill? Laurel Canyon. I don't know why that Laurel Canyon wasn't worked into a scene.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But they hit everything else. All right. Apex Mountain,

[Craig]

Gosling.

[Van Lathan]

I've thought about this a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

2011, this and drive coming off a nice seven year run and he's now established as an A plus Lister.

[Mina Kimes]

It's tough.

[Van Lathan]

Ken is hard. Ken and Barbie for which he was nominated. And he sings and he's so good in it. It's tough. I would say for me their on screen chemistry obviously and I think their relationship it.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say La La Land for him.

[Mina Kimes]

After a lot of thought I. I would probably say La La Land cuz.

[Bill Simmons]

Cuz it felt like after that movie

[Mina Kimes]

you could make whatever movie like the Re. But I would say La Land. But the combination of this and drive.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty good. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

It's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good. I've always had this theory about when they do the Oscars they have an MVP like Drake May versus Matt Stafford and we do the mvp and it has to be two movies or more that are really good and if they just. They just like gave a special little award.

[Van Lathan]

Coach of the year is like everybody always rewards the one year turnaround. I voted for Mike McDonald because I was like this was a. He went from a bottom five defense to the best defense in the NFL in two years.

[Bill Simmons]

Celebrate that two year coach of the year. Almost.

[Van Lathan]

Well just they're always like who? Every year it's just the wind joke. Yeah. Who turned it around.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that because sometimes like the. Jim Carrey is the most fame we talked about this with when he had 94. He's the three comedies all in one year. He just gave him like the Oscars. MVP for best whatever. Emma Stone. No, not sure what it is for her. It's probably LA.

[Mina Kimes]

Probably also LA.

[Bill Simmons]

Julianne Moore. It's somewhere in the 90s, late 90s post boogie nights. It's definitely earlier.

[Van Lathan]

She's good in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Singles Bars in 21st century movies. Yeah. Cuz this singles bars kind of died as a movie location as we get in the 2000 and 20s post Covid.

[Mina Kimes]

Especially like a place that orients the whole movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mina Kimes]

This would. This would be. I'm trying to think anything. Is there anything else? No, this would be it.

[Bill Simmons]

Carell. It's gotta be mid 2000s when he's done the Office. No, but it's got the Office with Little Miss Sunshine. He's just come off 40 year old virgin and Anchorman. It's gotta be that.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Cause he goes. He gets an Oscar nomination. Out of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't he?

[Mina Kimes]

For Lil miss Sunshine. So he becomes somewhere in legitimately characters

[Bill Simmons]

jumping out of a car. It's this not lady bird because they ripped it off. Vodka cranberries as an actual plot device in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Can't think of another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Ever had a vodka cranberry?

[Mina Kimes]

No.

[Van Lathan]

It's not good.

[Bill Simmons]

It's okay if you tell them. Very light splash of the cranberry. So it's just a little. But if it's actual cranberry juice that's fucking disgusting. Who wants to drink that at 10 at night?

[Van Lathan]

I don't do vodka drinks generally.

[Bill Simmons]

Really? Really. What's your drink?

[Van Lathan]

Anything. Tequila. Mezcal.

[Bill Simmons]

There you go. Hardcore. There you go. Old fashioned. No dirty dancing homages. I'm gonna say yes.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. And then the. The Century City mall. No because it's right now.

[Mina Kimes]

Right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex pound is 2026. Unbelievable.

[Mina Kimes]

The weather's getting good right now. My. My mom's in town. I'm just gonna take her to the greatest place in the world.

[Van Lathan]

There's one of the few things in modern society that just keeps getting better instead of worse.

[Bill Simmons]

Moss, Century city Cruise or Hanks. It's clearly Hanks. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Really. What about Cruz as Gosling Would have

[Van Lathan]

been great as a young.

[Mina Kimes]

As a young.

[Van Lathan]

A young Cruise would have been great.

[Bill Simmons]

Like cocktail cruise.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, like cocktails.

[Van Lathan]

As gossip and as evidenced by the fact that Edel is one of my picks picks. I always think Tom Cruz is as best when he's funny.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Like you. You let Tom go a little bit, have some fun. Like get into the whole deal with that version of him. He could have definitely pulled that off.

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely. Totally agree.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz hitting on women in cocktail. If he has that energy for this, I think I'd vote for that. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz.

[Craig]

Cruz is Gosling and Hanks is Carell. I mean they could both.

[Mina Kimes]

That kind of works too.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg? It's probably Spielberg. Scorsese's version of this movie would be pretty crazy. Somebody's hiding cocaine at some point, right? Best hang. Worst hang. Emma Stone's clearly the best hang in this movie. Who's the worst hang?

[Van Lathan]

The babysitter.

[Mina Kimes]

The babysitter?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, babysitter.

[Mina Kimes]

So you definitely shouldn't be hanging on. You'd be in the Epstein files.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. I have a great pick and nip. But you guys can go first because mine's gonna win.

[Mina Kimes]

No, I didn't. I didn't have one. I actually couldn't find one.

[Van Lathan]

Mine was the bar stuff. Which we already hit on.

[Bill Simmons]

Why does an 8th grade boy need a babysitter?

[Van Lathan]

Isn't she the babysitter for the little sister? Or is it kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

A kid's 14, he could watch the little girl, who by the way is

[Van Lathan]

Joey King, which I didn't notice until this movie.

[Mina Kimes]

But so I'll say something here.

[Bill Simmons]

The eighth grader could absolutely watch his little sister.

[Mina Kimes]

I think this is generational because I've seen people do this. I don't know what was going on in the 80s. By the time I was 8, I was at the house alone using the legitimately, if I wanted to cook something, I would make scrambled eggs and cook it myself. Like. But now I see stuff like this. I see people say they have 12 year old kids or whatever and they don't want to leave the kids alone by themselves.

[Bill Simmons]

We were leaving our kids alone. 13, 14. Oh, okay. I just like, they're old enough and it's not what's going to happen.

[Van Lathan]

I used to babysit growing up and there was definitely an age, especially with little boys, where you're like, yeah, neither of us feel great about this, right? Like, I'm 16, you're 12. This feels weird. We shouldn't be 100%. I'd be like, bro, I'm just here to watch south park, which I don't get to watch at home. You can do whatever you want. And I'm making my.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you want to crunch some Seahawks tape? He's like, no, it's just a weird. Stop staring at me.

[Van Lathan]

There is. Or it would be like when you would be. I would hand you and me and trick or treating candy and like a kid who's a little bit too old comes up to trick or treat and you have this awkward charged moment. That's how it feels.

[Mina Kimes]

Is there some guy somewhere going right now talking to his buddies going, dude, the girl on espn, bro, miss my baby. Babysitter, bro.

[Van Lathan]

I was a. I was such a bad babysitter. So bad.

[Bill Simmons]

We mentioned. Would the babysitter have a crush on Steve Carell? I'm gonna say no.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

We mentioned Kyle's wife being mad that he slept with the teacher. Seems a little hypocritical. Bad stunt double cut in the Dirty Dancing scene was my other one. Really? Obviously not Emma Stone. Sequel prequel. Prestige tv all black cast are untouchable. Prestige TV version of this would be pretty interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

Be fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they would have to bring everything together in the final scene, but we could spend more time with each character. I'm not against it, but it also feels like it's an Apple show. I could see it.

[Van Lathan]

I was gonna say it feels like

[Bill Simmons]

you can see them in the box.

[Van Lathan]

Bill Lawrence type show.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Ted Lasso could see them doing it.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you're watching it going, that probably just should have been a movie.

[Mina Kimes]

No, it's funny. Like that Burbs show on Peacock. Not bad. And I've the Burbs. The original is one of my favorite movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it based on the original Burbs? It is. Oh, interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

It's based on the original Burbs.

[Bill Simmons]

I just thought they stole the title.

[Mina Kimes]

The lady that plays, I guess Bruce Dern's wife in that movie, she's back. She's playing the same character. It's on the same street, same thing. So they call back to a lot of stuff. So I think when they take those old movies like that and make them into longer shows, it can work sometimes. So I could see this working.

[Bill Simmons]

We have the. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie, the Florist or anyone else you want to imitate? I didn't have one. We can skip this one. Especially after last week. CR did Zane Lowe and it kind of brought the house down. I didn't know. Did we retire the category?

[Craig]

It was special.

[Mina Kimes]

You guys don't want to do the category anymore? This is my favorite. Fucking shit.

[Bill Simmons]

I just didn't have one.

[Mina Kimes]

I didn't personally have one category.

[Van Lathan]

So well cast and like you said, they got all of these stars. It's very hard to replace any of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I was workshopping an idea of when Stephen A. Comes into the get up set at 6:49am Pacific Time. But I couldn't figure out how to do it when he just walks in and he's like, I'm Stephen A. Give me a mic. And they do it and it just stops the show. And then they have to figure out how to get him a chair. But I couldn't figure figure out how to do that with our set. So I decided not to just one Oscar. Who gets it?

[Mina Kimes]

I would go either the script or. I think this is a really underrated Steve Carell performance.

[Van Lathan]

Really?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Steve Carell gets to show almost everything he can do in the movie. By the end of the movie, he's kind of broken down. When he's having that conversation with Gosling, it is very dramatic and you feel him. He's funny in the movie. He's vulnerable in it. He's held both he captive by the energy of Ryan Gosling. And then he is able by the end of the movie to impose himself on him. I think it's a really good Steve Carell performance.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Mina and I have the same one.

[Van Lathan]

The guys. He was nominated for a Golden Globe.

[Bill Simmons]

I believe he was. If you go back to best actor in a supporting role for this year, Christopher Plummer wins for Beginners.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I love that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Old personal word.

[Van Lathan]

Another great LA movie, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Max Fan Saito and Extremely Loud.

[Mina Kimes]

Incredibly Close. It's supporting.

[Bill Simmons]

Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close should not have generated an Oscar nomination. Just gonna say that. Nick Noltene, Warrior, he's really good.

[Mina Kimes]

Guys in supporting.

[Craig]

Warrior's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Kenneth Brown on My Week With Maryland. I don't remember that movie. And then Jonah Hill and Money Boy Ball. I think Gosling could have snuck in there.

[Van Lathan]

I would say his performance in this is comparable to his performance in Barbie.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't do comedies, period. Unless it's like you could swap out

[Craig]

Jonah Hill in Moneyball. Gosling in this is better than Jonah Hill.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no question.

[Van Lathan]

100%.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We could go in LA right now and try to find the one person who thinks Jonah Hill was better than Gosling.

[Craig]

I mean, that's. He's real.

[Bill Simmons]

We go to Century City Mall and try to do it.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, by the way, Gosling wrestling back at the Century City Mall in Barbie.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, double wow.

[Mina Kimes]

Century City.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two unanswerable questions. Did you. Did either of you have any?

[Mina Kimes]

I never have any. It's hard.

[Bill Simmons]

The hardest category for me was the babysitter eventually arrested. Okay, wait, can we get photos to a 14 year old?

[Van Lathan]

This is a good time to talk about the age. Senior in high school generally in this movie being a little bit confusing. So she's 17, right? She's 17.

[Craig]

And he's 13.

[Van Lathan]

He's 13.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he was 14.

[Craig]

No, he's 13, I believe.

[Van Lathan]

13.

[Bill Simmons]

Graduating eighth grade. What are you doing? Skip a grade.

[Van Lathan]

They make Steve Carell and his wife in their 40s, even though they're very clearly in their 50s. At one point she's like, I'm 44. I'm like, oh, they're both in their 50s. But it's because they have to compress all of the ages to three kids.

[Bill Simmons]

23, right? 30, and then like six.

[Van Lathan]

Cause Steve Carell had Emma Stone when

[Mina Kimes]

he was 17, which is why they got married.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mina Kimes]

And so, yeah, they had to kind of mess with the ages.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought the ages were all over the place. I Have no idea how old Gosling's supposed to be. I'm gonna guess like 29.

[Van Lathan]

The tough thing about the photos too is like it just didn't need to be in the movie. Like they could have. She could have just like given him a little kiss on the cheek or something.

[Mina Kimes]

But it's like you need to fuel

[Craig]

the fight scene at the end. You need to get John Carroll.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I meant her giving it to him. Oh, literally taking the photos in.

[Craig]

Yeah. Her bringing those to the eighth grade graduation, having those envelope.

[Mina Kimes]

But this is the thing.

[Craig]

Kind of weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's your graduation gift.

[Mina Kimes]

They used to do stuff like that in movies.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's the point.

[Mina Kimes]

In the 80s they did it because

[Bill Simmons]

we didn't know any better.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. So we. I'm glad that we stopped. But they used. You go back and you watch these movies now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This works in a John Hughes like

[Mina Kimes]

a coming of age story with a. With some 16 year old kid having sex with a 35 year old woman or something like that. They used to do shit like that.

[Craig]

I don't. I don't think I have a problem with the ages. Like the 13, 17, the photos thing. I think it's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's realistic because when you're 13, you feel like you have a chance with everybody. You have no idea.

[Mina Kimes]

Idea.

[Craig]

Everyone's trying to.

[Van Lathan]

That's why I maintain the only unrealistic thing is the babysitter thinking she has a chance with Steve Carell's character. Which makes no sense. Yeah. The 13, 17 year old dynamic doesn't

[Bill Simmons]

bother me at all.

[Mina Kimes]

So you think the 13. The 17 year old giving the naked pictures to a 13 year old is fine.

[Craig]

It's corny and weird. Would never happen. But I don't. The ages was not the reason why. I don't think that worked.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, okay.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

Cuz I'm about to search your name.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. What was Jacob's job? Did he have a job?

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, he's rich.

[Van Lathan]

Just inherited wealth.

[Mina Kimes]

He said his dad made a lot of money.

[Bill Simmons]

What did he do all day?

[Van Lathan]

That is a great question. Exercise workout.

[Mina Kimes]

What are we doing all day? These bars. Getting busy. What you talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

He fucking worked out and went to a bar. It's a fucking weird place.

[Mina Kimes]

We got a job.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he an alcoholic?

[Mina Kimes]

Our job is we snow plowing. We through here. We seeing all the snow that's seen the charity.

[Bill Simmons]

What did he care about? He likes sports.

[Craig]

Five years later he has a YouTube channel about how to pick up this

[Van Lathan]

is why 2011 was a better time. Because guys like that didn't have podcast mics.

[Bill Simmons]

It's true. 24 hours a day. What's he doing?

[Van Lathan]

Working out. You saw his body working out.

[Bill Simmons]

Hook it up.

[Van Lathan]

To drink that much and have a body like that, you got to spend.

[Mina Kimes]

How much you got to be in the gym a lot. He was doing the handstand, bro. You know what? I should have talked. You know what I don't like?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what the handstand.

[Mina Kimes]

The handstand push ups that I see people doing in the gym every time. It's not even about being jealous. Cause shout out to you. I'm sure the handstand pushup has some utility other than to make the rest of us look fat as fuck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

But whenever I see somebody doing the handstand push ups, I want to go punch them in the abs, man. Stop doing that. So he did that in the movie. And you have to be a fantastic athlete to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that something's missing with him with that character. He might have been more of a bad person than we really list. Or maybe he just podcasts hadn't really emerged yet for him.

[Van Lathan]

I like how you said that. And Van instantly looked at me to defend him.

[Mina Kimes]

I want you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

What's the defense for him?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I mean he. He is a trust fund guy. What do trust funders do all day is an age old question.

[Mina Kimes]

That is true.

[Bill Simmons]

He could add a little side business or something.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean. Yeah, I mean I. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like I've invest. I've invested in this thing called Quickster that Netflix has. I'm a believer like anything. Anything. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? I trouble with this one. It definitely would not be the photos. I guess that's my answer.

[Van Lathan]

Putting that on the record. He is not interested in having 17 year old.

[Bill Simmons]

Give me the photos. Coach Finock. Mr. Miyagi Word. Best worst life lesson.

[Craig]

Straws are phallic.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. This one. That straws are. Fallon is a cool one. No, Cal, the meanest thing anyone's ever said to you is your wife cheated on you because you lost sight of what it took to keep her content at home as a man, as a husband and probably as a lover. Jesus Christ. If that don't make you take your.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a reality check.

[Mina Kimes]

Your vitamins right there.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when you stop shopping at the Gap.

[Mina Kimes]

That's when you stop shopping at the Gap, man.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for best double feature trip choice, Mina? Just this twice in a row.

[Van Lathan]

I think people should watch this and then watch La La Land and just come back and tell me which movie Gosling and Stone have better chemistry in.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you'll agree with me looking right at the library, it's really good.

[Van Lathan]

Me asking the CX draft Malik Willis in the second round in 2020. I just think if you watch them back to back, you will see that they are better together in this movie. I. I am dying on this hill.

[Mina Kimes]

Pretty Woman. I actually watch it. After I watch it. It's Pretty Woman.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Pretty Woman. Fantastic, bro. It's like, great.

[Bill Simmons]

When they don't let her, they kick her out of the store. Really feel it.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. I have all this money. I have all this money. Nobody will help me. I have all this money. She was such a.

[Van Lathan]

Did you. You watched Wonder man, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I did so good.

[Van Lathan]

When he does the Pretty Women scene, it took me like a tick too long to realize what he was doing.

[Mina Kimes]

When he.

[Van Lathan]

There's. Have you seen Wonder Man? Yeah, when he does the Pretty Women monologue, it's so good.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Focus as my double featured choice because I actually think these movies complain.

[Mina Kimes]

The fuck is going on. Like, you have mentioned Focus.

[Van Lathan]

Focus Hype is crazy.

[Mina Kimes]

Same director.

[Bill Simmons]

We've already done it on Rewatch. I didn't think I sell it anymore.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, you've done Focus and not Hitch?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we did. Wesley likes Focus too.

[Van Lathan]

We did Focus Hitches.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, it taps into this Will Smith side that no other movie tapped into.

[Mina Kimes]

So this was the thing for me.

[Bill Simmons]

Margot Robbie brought something out of him.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They had real.

[Bill Simmons]

So they had real chemistry. He doesn't. He had. That was an issue for him over the years.

[Mina Kimes]

I was concerned with Focus, with Will Smith because of when you. I was concerned. I'll tell you why. Like, when a rap, you know, a rapper's career is over, not when he makes a whack album, but when he makes a good album and nobody cares. Ooh. So like when you come out and you drop some whack shit, it is what it is. But when you around telling people, hey, you really gotta listen to this. This shit is hot. And just nobody is on it, that's when you know the rapper, that it's over. Moved on, right? Focus. To me, I was like, oh, shit. Because I went to watch Focus and I was like, yo, man, he's good in this. Like, this is a good movie.

[Van Lathan]

Was it not a hit? Was it not Successful. I thought it was.

[Bill Simmons]

It actually did pretty well.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It didn't do as well as a normal Will Smith movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And that had more to do with he theater 20 year run, you know.

[Mina Kimes]

Right. But it also was a movie that people were expecting to kind of be a return to form. I will eventually kind of did return to form. And then you know the hall of

[Bill Simmons]

famer Margot Robbie's in that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's when you waived the five year waiting period.

[Mina Kimes]

No, no, that was. I waved it for Wolf.

[Bill Simmons]

For Wolf. Wall Street. Right.

[Mina Kimes]

She was around there and right then

[Bill Simmons]

like who won the movie? I have Gosling.

[Mina Kimes]

Gosling too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's right.

[Mina Kimes]

It's his movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting that Gosling is just easily wins it. You have got.

[Craig]

He wins almost every movie he's in.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

What's a movie he's been in that he doesn't win?

[Mina Kimes]

It's a good question.

[Craig]

Maybe Big short.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. That has too many people.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm gonna be honest with you though, if you really think about it with the big short, he's also stealing every scene that he's in in that movie. But it's too much of a pure

[Bill Simmons]

ensemble for almost anyone to win Producer Craig's moment. Now I know you were fired up. We did this movie.

[Craig]

Yeah. I think this is the best rom com of the 2000s. It's the defining rom com of my generation. I think. Think I'm. I.

[Bill Simmons]

It's 2011 though.

[Craig]

Yeah. This movie came out the weekend I turned 17. And it's crazy how influential thinking back now having. It's been a while since I've seen it, man. Did Gosling's character influence my male perspective as a 17 year old kid? Like I. I remember searching online for. For months trying to find his exact sunglasses and I found them.

[Mina Kimes]

I almost bought them.

[Craig]

They were like $250. I didn't do it. Wow. Like V necks. His haircut, the whole way you interact with women. I mean honestly, like his physique was like fuck, I gotta start working out. I gotta look like Gosling. It was like peak male physique. It was wild. Looking back, man, I was like this. Really Drinking old fashions.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Craig]

It's like a 17 years old.

[Van Lathan]

A whole generation of men. I feel like now I'm start drinking

[Craig]

old fashioned now because Ryan Gosling says that's cool. And I am like actively in love with Gosling and Emma Stone together as a couple. And I'm a huge La La Land fan.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Rave reviews. I like this way more than Death Wish. A little bit hated Death Wish.

[Craig]

You know, it's a scene that we didn't talk about that I think is sneaky, great and very effective when. When Carell is at night looking through the window on the phone. It's a really emotional, touching scene that really, really works.

[Van Lathan]

Another needle drop. I love is when they play the talking heads while he's watering the lawn.

[Craig]

Yeah. The whole concept of him sneaking to the house at night to water the lawn is a great idea.

[Mina Kimes]

But the scene he's looking in the window at her. Now they have to pretend not to love each other. That's how broken things are. Totally. Things are so broken that now they have to invent a conceit to see each other that doesn't really exist because their bond is so strong. Yeah.

[Craig]

You communicate in Julianne Moore. It's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

There's some bit characters we didn't even talk about. Josh Groban.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Unmentioned.

[Bill Simmons]

He's so weird that it's in this movie. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

But he is funny.

[Van Lathan]

I1 I didn't know at the time, but now after watching Pluribus, Carolina Weedra is one of the women that he hits on. You watch Pluribus, right? Aosha and Pluris is. There's a lot of like, great kind of smaller roles.

[Mina Kimes]

You didn't see it yet?

[Van Lathan]

You didn't watch Pluribus?

[Bill Simmons]

Skipped it. I watched the first episode. I was like, I'm good after that pilot.

[Van Lathan]

Are you not a Breaking Bad guy? The pilot is.

[Bill Simmons]

I just wasn't. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

It slows down around and then it picks up.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cuz the.

[Mina Kimes]

Cuz if you. If the pilot. You watch the second one, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

No, tell me. L. There you go.

[Mina Kimes]

You like what you like.

[Van Lathan]

She's good.

[Bill Simmons]

M. There's been some good stuff I've liked lately. The JFK show is great.

[Mina Kimes]

It's so hard to watch for me, though. So sad.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really good. Yeah. I don't think my wife has been locked into a show like this JFK show. Maybe it's been years. Like if they. If they made us pay per view the last couple episodes.

[Van Lathan]

I don't see this question has aged so well.

[Bill Simmons]

That's every picture.

[Van Lathan]

I'm like. I'm like, this is how all.

[Bill Simmons]

And she left the early 90s bar New York fashion. Like just how they were just so careful about how they did everything. It's really good.

[Mina Kimes]

He was the man. But I tell you what, that show is kicking Daryl Hannah's ass.

[Van Lathan]

That's what I've heard.

[Mina Kimes]

They making Daryl Hannah look like she not from Roxanne or splash like they. They kicking Daryl Hannah's ass in that.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty tough. Yeah. I. I was actually with. Was in a group of people with one person who went to college with JFK Jr. And was like, so what's he like? And he was like just an incredibly handsome guy. Like you just. Everybody felt that way like one of your guys. Like, he was just like, he was just really handsome. Every woman was in love with him and it was all as advertised.

[Mina Kimes]

It's so funny to me because, you know, this is not a diss to the Kennedys in any way, shape or

[Van Lathan]

form, but great start to a sentence.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like they would always talk about like how great looking the Kennedys were and all of that stuff like that. And then I would look at them and I would be like, I don't see it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't see lips, big teeth.

[Van Lathan]

This is like most WASPs, though. Like most, like if you, if you look at it too long, you're like J.K. jr.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, he was legitimately height. You go though.

[Mina Kimes]

But I think it was because of Jackie, though. It was. He was, but he was legitimately the man. Like, for real.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny that the old Seinfeld episode when he's at Elaine's gym, I mean, that leads to the whole master of the domain thing, but just that he isn't even in it. But as a character, like, that's how revered he was in that era. I think that's a really good show.

[Mina Kimes]

Poor son of a bitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina going to the combine. By the time people watch this, you're going to be in Indianapolis I the second San Elmo strip in a bar with 190 NFL guys.

[Van Lathan]

When you hit me about doing by the way, I think I first asked you to do this movie like three years ago, so I'm so glad that we actually are doing it. But when you hit me, I was so relieved because I've just been watching you weird combine show LSU cornerbacks for like the last 24 hours. And this movie was a nice break.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina, great to see you. Van. Thank you. As always. Thanks to Craig, thanks to Chris, thanks to Eduardo and Gao, as always. And we will see you oh next week. CR much oh is all Chris's choices. It's. It's all Chris movies. It's CR Month. It's five episodes and the first one is going to be Sicario live on March 2nd I think at 6pm PT or ET. I can't remember. 3 Pacific 3 Pacific Perfect movie 6 ET Sicario CR has been calling for it ever since we started the podcast, so it's finally happening. See you next week.

[Van Lathan]

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[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Van Lathan]

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