‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rewatchables – ‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Introduction to ‘Death Wish’ Discussion

In this episode of The Rewatchables, hosted by Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons, and Craig Horlbeck delve deep into the 1974 classic Death Wish. Celebrating its place within the vigilante film genre, the hosts explore the film’s themes, cultural impact, and enduring legacy.

The Vigilante Genre in the 1970s

The conversation begins with an exploration of the vigilante archetype in 1970s cinema. Bill Simmons initiates the discussion by highlighting the transformation of ordinary individuals into avengers, citing iconic films like Dirty Harry (1971), Walking Tall, and Magnum Force.

Bill Simmons [03:33]: "The idea of these normal, everyday businessmen becoming Batman in New York City, usually."

Zach Lowe adds that Death Wish epitomizes this trend by presenting Paul Kersey, an architect whose life is shattered by violence, prompting him to take justice into his own hands.

Zach Lowe [04:06]: "...what this guy snapped. It's like a midlife crisis movie as much as it's like a revenge movie."

Charles Bronson’s Role and Portrayal

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Charles Bronson’s portrayal of Paul Kersey. The hosts commend Bronson’s unique presence, noting his transformation from a character actor to the central figure of an action franchise.

Bill Simmons [11:43]: "Bronson's evolving from that character actor or that supporting actor... He became the centerpiece of these films."

Zach Lowe emphasizes Bronson's distinct physicality and stoic demeanor, which contribute to his iconic status in the vigilante genre.

Zach Lowe [12:32]: "He has to be completely established at the beginning of the movie and ready to work. So that's it."

Violence and Its Impact in Death Wish

The episode delves into the film's depiction of violence, particularly the controversial assault scene that sets the stage for Paul Kersey’s transformation. The hosts discuss how this scene serves as a catalyst for exploring themes of trauma and revenge.

Zach Lowe [29:52]: "But the big question I have is with the New York City police and the media, and this is now like a circus."

Bill Simmons critiques the character development, suggesting that Bronson’s portrayal lacks emotional depth, which affects the film's ability to fully convey the protagonist’s descent into vigilantism.

Bill Simmons [30:38]: "Bronson's Just like, I guess I gotta go back to my apartment. I gotta have my family get traumatized in the worst possible way."

Critical Reception and Cultural Impact

The conversation touches on the polarizing reception of Death Wish upon its release. While some praised its gritty portrayal of urban decay, others condemned it for glorifying violence.

Bill Simmons [21:21]: "The New York Times called this film irresponsible."

Zach Lowe references real-life incidents inspired by the film, highlighting its significant yet controversial influence on both cinema and society.

Zach Lowe [20:24]: "...copycatted vigilante incidents, most famously in 1984..."

Comparison with Sequels and Modern Vigilante Films

The hosts compare Death Wish to its sequels and modern counterparts like John Wick. They note that while Death Wish laid the groundwork for the vigilante genre, its sequels often lacked the original’s depth, turning into formulaic action films.

Bill Simmons [64:27]: "John Wick is Death Wish. But then take it in an entirely different direction."

Zach Lowe points out that contemporary films often offer a more nuanced take on revenge, contrasting with the straightforward brutality of Death Wish.

Casting What-Ifs and Remakes

A lively segment involves speculative casting discussions, imagining how different actors might have transformed Death Wish. Suggestions include Jack Lemmon, Henry Fonda, and even Elvis Presley in the role of Paul Kersey.

Bill Simmons [56:11]: "I love to have seen the Sidney Lumet, Jack Lemmon version of this movie."

They also critique the 2018 remake starring Bruce Willis, arguing that it failed to capture the essence of the original and felt too similar to The Equalizer.

Bill Simmons [53:01]: "We've done it now. I think if you were gonna really try to, like, do something creative, you would basically have to tell Death Wish from the perspective of the criminals that he's hunting."

Memorable Scenes and Rewatchable Moments

Despite its flaws, the hosts identify several standout scenes that make Death Wish a rewatchable classic. Key moments include Paul Kersey’s symbolic act of swinging a roll of quarters and the film’s climactic shootout in the park.

Zach Lowe [32:05]: "It starts swinging it against the thing. It's like just kind of loses his mind."

They also discuss the effective use of setting and cinematography that heightens the movie’s tension and urban paranoia.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the enduring relevance of Death Wish and its portrayal of societal anxieties. They acknowledge the film’s contentious legacy but agree that its influence on the vigilante genre remains significant.

Bill Simmons [78:01]: "This is one of my favorite decades."

Zach Lowe concludes by teasing upcoming episodes focusing on more 1970s films, promising continued exploration of cinematic rewatchables.

Notable Quotes:

• Zach Lowe [02:15]: "Call him a mad vigilante. Call him a hero. Either way, he's always on target."
• Bill Simmons [11:43]: "Bronson's evolving from that character actor or that supporting actor... He became the centerpiece of these films."
• Zach Lowe [29:52]: "But the big question I have is with the New York City police and the media, and this is now like a circus."

Key Takeaways:

• Death Wish is a seminal film in the vigilante genre, reflecting 1970s societal anxieties about urban decay and crime.
• Charles Bronson’s portrayal of Paul Kersey is both iconic and critiqued for its lack of emotional depth.
• The film’s depiction of violence sparked significant controversy and influenced real-life vigilantism.
• Subsequent sequels and remakes failed to capture the original’s complexity, often becoming formulaic action movies.
• Memorable scenes and the film’s gritty portrayal of New York City contribute to its status as a rewatchable classic.

Final Thoughts:

Death Wish remains a complex and influential piece of cinema. While it garners criticism for its approach to violence and character development, its impact on the vigilante film trope is undeniable. This episode of The Rewatchables offers a comprehensive analysis, balancing nostalgia with critical insight, making it a valuable listen for both fans and newcomers to the film.

Transcript

[Zach Lowe]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen. Listen to your podcast. Let's go. This episode is brought to you by new Pro Namo Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste. One thing we all try to do to stay healthy is to keep up a routine. Things like daily yoga or trying to maintain a healthy diet. So how about making oral health part of your day? Brush your teeth twice daily with Pro Enamel Clinical Enamel Strength for three times stronger enamel protection. And to help protect teeth for life, try new pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste right now. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card is a no fee credit card that gives you daily cash back every day. That's 3% back at Apple and 2% back on every purchase made with Apple Card using Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2025. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com the Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We're in a new studio for our video podcast. Look at this. Got Swayze. We brought stallone. We brought cr. Yeah, we decided to make this big ass 70s month. Big 70s movies. I have no plan other than we did Star wars and we bought a lot of goodwill.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a lot of lobbying going on behind the scenes for the for big.

[Zach Lowe]

Ass 70s month and for.

[Bill Simmons]

For which movies we do.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I feel like we're in one for us like century now after we did Star Wars. So much leeway. So let's do Death Wish with Charles Bronson. That's next.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Was it worth it?

[Zach Lowe]

Call him a mad vigilante. Call him a hero. Either way, he's always on target. We want you to get out of New York permanently. Never make a death wish because a death wish always comes true and you get to love it. All right, CR. This is a podcast about Death Wish with Charles Bronson and vigilante movies and Charles Bronson himself. And I think all of them tied together. I think this is such an interesting movie. I don't know if it's aged that well. It has a really awful scene in it. But this movie's also 51 years old. Do you want to start Bronson or vigilantes?

[Bill Simmons]

I want to start vigilantes, I think. And the idea of, like, these normal, everyday businessmen becoming Batman in New York City, usually.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And going out and, like, handing out justice on their own terms, which then you have to read into, like, the audience reaction to the movies at that time. Like, why were these movies popular?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, and that's why we're doing the pod, because. So you have this cop vigilante era. Dirty Harry, 1971, walking tall, you big Buford Pusser guy.

[Bill Simmons]

For sure. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Three of those. And that was Dirty Harry was. He's a San Francisco cop trying to find a serial killer. He start. He's making his own rules. Yeah, that was, I think, the first. He's making his own rules. Watch out.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a lot of movies about cops who follow the rules.

[Zach Lowe]

Now, this one is really set. The. Set the mark, though, for don't follow the rules.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Walking Tall, Sheriff trying to save his town, and he decides to bend some rules. And then Magnum Force was another one with Clint where it's same type of thing, but nobody had really put all of it together with normal people. Until Death Wish, where it's like, what happens? This guy's an architect. His wife and daughter are brutally assaulted. His wife dies and he just kind of loses it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And this leads to. They're still making these. I mean, I made a list. The Exterminator with Robert Ginty in 1980. Remember that one? Yeah, because I didn't. Because I was recently.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember the name. I don't know if I've ever seen it.

[Zach Lowe]

Never saw it. Fighting Back with Tom Skerritt in 1982. I saw in the theater.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Zach Lowe]

And then he went on to Top gun, Death Wish 2. In 1982, he moves to LA vigilante Robert Forster and Fred Williamson, your guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if I've ever seen that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I didn't even know it existed. Death wish 345, falling down, Michael Douglas, 93, the substitute, our guy, Tom Barger, 96, the brave one Jody Foster said, let me get in on this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is bad.

[Zach Lowe]

That's Basically a variation on this Gran Torino 2008. And now it just keeps. It's going and going and going. Why do we like these?

[Bill Simmons]

And then they remade it with Bruce Willis. They remade Death Wish later in life.

[Zach Lowe]

Do we acknowledge that one?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying it happened. They're still continuing to do it. Look, the. The idea of a man whose family has been taken from him and then he goes out to, you know, dole out revenge is like a pretty durable. It goes back to westerns. It goes back to like. But the idea of plac in either a small town or an urban environment and having the violence be so much more extreme was probably pretty new for Death Wish. It's also honestly, like kind of a part of a pretty disturbing, primarily 1970 genre of rape revenge movies, which was like more of a horror thing, but starts with Straw Dogs or is a. You know, you can market at Straw Dogs, which is a couple of years before this or a year before this.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it's like Hills have eyes and I spit on your grave. Mostly grave, which they remade.

[Zach Lowe]

And an even, like more violent and pretty awful.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And like the. So this movie, I think is almost more disturbing because it. For the first half of it, it's so grounded. I mean, the entire Death Wish idea is like this really shy, retiring guy who has a little bit of experience in his childhood with guns, becomes traumatized and then actually goes out, like, seeking out altercations with people so that he can take out his revenge on. On. On the guys who did this to his.

[Zach Lowe]

My wife was watching this with me for some reason likes Death Wish.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

And when he gets the roll of quarters and he's just like, I'm going to take a stroll at night here. And she's like, I love this. Kind of want to do this. The roll, of course. Come, come mess with me. And that led to the role of the sock of sodas and bad boys.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Zach Lowe]

Good sock violence.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We had the socks. Soap socks in. In Full Metal Jacket, right? Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. We should try to get a pyramid going.

[Bill Simmons]

The social team rushes to their computers.

[Zach Lowe]

So is this a Bronson movie or a New York is falling apart movie? If you had to pick one or the other. Because this is another reason why I find this movie so fascinating. We're heading into this world of New York basically from mid-70s all the way through to the warriors, where it's like New York is completely falling apart. It is scary. It's weird. There's all these little subcultures going on here and you kind of have to take matters in your own hands or you might get run over by one of these gangs or there's things happening over here and over here. And there was this lawlessness that's just in all these movies it becomes a character.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a pretty wild time back then. To me, it's like the other versions of this movie. And we'll get to that when we get to casting what ifs. And the development process for this film is there's a version of this movie that's way closer to Straw Dogs and way closer to like a neurotic. I'm dealing with my environment, but I'm a middle aged man kind of movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The insertion of Bronson makes it an action movie and then turns it into like an action franchise going forward. So I think it. Bronson defines it. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna say it's a Bronson movie.

[Zach Lowe]

When was the first time you went to New York? Do you remember?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, in the 90s. It was fine. Like, my experience with New York has always been that New York is actually not as nowhere near as dangerous as it's like made out to be.

[Zach Lowe]

I think my first time was going to MSG for wrestling in 1980.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

With my future stepdad. And we were going, did you guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Get confronted by the Warriors?

[Zach Lowe]

But at that point I knew a bunch of these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And I'm like, we're going to New York. It's fucking crazy there. You know, I just knew from all the movies. I knew from like the Yankee games where Chris Chambliss is game winning homer and everybody poured on the field. So in my little kid head, I was like, this is like the most dangerous place in the world. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you think it was when you saw it?

[Zach Lowe]

No, it was like, ah, this is just this huge, big city. But the way it was portrayed made me think that it was just like going to the wild, wild west.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that there's this cycle that everybody goes through that this movie maybe identifies the anxiety where as you get older, it can't possibly be that you're getting older. It's that the city is falling apart.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And so when I was in New York, when I was a kid, when I was in my 20s and when I was in my 30s, I was just like almost completely blind to the idea of like crazy, wild 80s New York.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, and then as you get older, more and more of your friends are like, oh, the City. It's falling apart. It's falling apart. It's crazy on the subways. It's crazy here. It's crazy there. We got to move to upstate or we're going to move to California. And that's kind of what's driving some of the drama in the first half of Death Wish. It's just like all of Paul's more conservative friends are like, we should throw all these people in jail or whatever. Well, that's not what, you know, proper society does. And then he gets pushed and pushed and pushed. But I think a lot of it is almost like a midlife crisis movie as much as it's like a revenge movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, you hit this point when you get older with New York City, where the fact that it seems like there's no ceiling and it's fucking crazy is, like, the best thing in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But usually either late teens or mid-20s, where you're like, this place is awesome. I don't know what the fuck's going on.

[Bill Simmons]

I can get so much trouble here.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Doesn't shut down. I don't know what's gonna happen at 3 in the morning. And then as you get older, you're right. You're like, man, New York's falling apart. I just feel like New York's basically been the same probably the entire time I've been alive.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Just. It's how you portray it. Bronson, the Liam neeson of the 70s.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, kind of unintentionally, like, that's the thing is, like. I mean, he's obviously always been this iconic action western, military character and is just one of the most unique faces, voices, and vibes in movie history. But the craziest thing about him is to read interviews with him, and they're like, so you made. You made Death Wish? And he's like, yeah, I actually don't think violence solves anything. Like, he was, like, this very different kind of guy than the people he played.

[Zach Lowe]

He starts out, he's in Magnificent Seven, Great Escape, Dirty Dozen, Once Upon a Time in the west, in the. In the 60s. But he's like one of those guys. He's not. He's never the star.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He's never McQueen.

[Zach Lowe]

But he's, like, tough. He's ripped. Something happens. He does, like, the Leo. And Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, goes to Europe and becomes a huge.

[Bill Simmons]

Star in Europe making these spaghetti Westerns.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And then comes back in 72 and 73, he makes Chato's Land, which I've never Seen.

[Bill Simmons]

That's another Michael Winner movie. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

The Mechanic, which I have seen.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty cool.

[Zach Lowe]

Stone Killer. All of a sudden, he's a major star. And then in 74, he makes Mr. Majestic and death Wish. And at that point, he has his little weird mustache. That is kind of captivating in 4K Blu Ray because I did buy this in 4K Blu Ray.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you really?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yeah. It was like 11.99. I'm like, fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Okay. Twist my arm. 1290.

[Bill Simmons]

You gotta see Goldblum in 48.

[Zach Lowe]

I gotta see every mustache hair for Bronson. I can't really fully explain Bronson, but there's been a few of these. He's basically Seagal of the previous generation.

[Bill Simmons]

It's hard to explain. It's. Honestly, when I look at him, when you see him in Hawaii when the movie is first opening and he's on his vacation with his wife and he's hanging out with his swimsuit and he stands up, you're like, that looks like an alien. Like, guys don't look like that anymore where the face is super old, but the body looks like somebody took a knife and carved it out of leather and rock. And he's never worn suntan. Like, he's a real. Like, I put on tanning oil guy. Like, I want to get, like, UV rays. It's an insane physique.

[Zach Lowe]

I. I was getting to this. Later. The Dr. Richard Kimball inappropriate Body Award. This guy's an architect. He's got 2.3% body fat. He's fucking jacked. He's got a 12 pack. He. I don't know how to explain him. And I think we've had a few of these. Stallone is more explainable because he always had the unintentional comedy. Van Damme was always, like, kind of an unbelievable athlete and always had a couple. He could imitate his accent. Schwarzenegger. Giant can do his accent. Seagal. You know, Kyle Brandt and I have tried on a couple movies, try to explain him. Ponytail can't really act.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Something hilarious about him the whole time. I don't know where Bronson fits in. It really is like a Liam Neeson thing because he talks like this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And every line, he delivers well.

[Bill Simmons]

But Bronson. I mean, there is an interesting thing where Bronson's, like, evolving from that character actor or that supporting actor. I mean, he's so good in those movies like Dirty Dozen and Great Escape that you're mentioning.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, he's good in everything.

[Bill Simmons]

He's awesome. But it's strange to watch him carry an entire film. I think you're right. Like my favorite probably performance by him other. I think it's Once Upon a Time in the west. Just because he's so mysterious in that movie. But yeah, when you put him front and center, like Liam Neeson is like a very accomplished actor, but before he becomes Mr. Vigilante, I have skills. Like Bronson was more or less like a character actor, like action movie star that then became like the centerpiece of these films.

[Zach Lowe]

Liam Neeson was competing against like Ray Fines and people like that. And then all of a sudden does taken and then that's just to. He just becomes Bronson. Bronson said in 74 I supply presents, there are never any long dialogue scenes to establish a character. He has to be completely established at the beginning of the movie and ready to work. So that's it. He knew who he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's.

[Zach Lowe]

He's like. Like, I don't know, like in basketball. Like I'm just here to set re to set picks and grab some rebounds. Help you protect the rim a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

That's all that's I'm here for. Don't ask me to really be in a big acting scene. I'm going to have my family get traumatized in the worst possible way. And you're not even going to be sure if I'm like. Like that bummed out about it.

[Bill Simmons]

We're going to get into that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I just shaking it off. So 75, it has hard times. And he has a movie called Breakout that apparently did well. And he's the fourth biggest star in that box office thing in 1975. It's Robert Redford, Barbara Streisand, Al Pacino and Charles Bronson.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And that was kind of the piece.

[Bill Simmons]

I think there's always a guy. Now I would say it's Statham, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who can get these movies made but nothing else. Like William Goldman always used to write about the movie star galaxy in the 70s about if you can get Redford or if you can get one of these guys, Newman, whoever. Clint, you can get your picture made if they want to make it. Bronson, I don't think could have done all the President's Men. Respectfully, no.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, there's a couple movies that he turned.

[Bill Simmons]

This goes all the way to the top. We gotta keep making calls. Damn it. Ben Bradley.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know if that would have worked.

[Bill Simmons]

Bronson as Ben Bradley would have been sick though, instead of Robards if he.

[Zach Lowe]

Was doing the speech at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

You better Be right.

[Zach Lowe]

Nothing's riding on this other than the future of the country.

[Bill Simmons]

And he guns them both down.

[Zach Lowe]

His kills for the first day. I'm literally gonna kill you. He did. He turned down the shootist with that became a John Wayne movie, one of the last ones. He turned down City slickers in 91 because he didn't want to die in the movie. He had this. I mean, the Bronson research, I. I defy anyone to find, like, kind of a quirkier, weirder, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

A list.

[Bill Simmons]

Give one normal response to a movie. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He. He would, like, turn down parts because, like, the shootist, I think that. I think that was the one where the guy has. Has some sort of cancer and he's like, I don't want to have cancer in a movie. Just. That's it. He's out. City Slickers, which was a great part that won Jack Palance the Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Bronson's like, I can't die in a movie, and just turns it down. And it would have been like the crowning career.

[Bill Simmons]

Once upon a Time in Hollywood Rules.

[Zach Lowe]

He's following. You know, it's like, I'm not supposed to die. Charles Bronson, he didn't get Capricorn one, a movie that I might be the only one that likes. And then he tested for Escape from New York and the studio pushed for it.

[Bill Simmons]

And Carpenter, for him to do Snake.

[Zach Lowe]

John Carpenter said he's too old.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He would have been in his 60s by then because he's in his 50s for Death Wish. Right.

[Zach Lowe]

Would I not own Charles Bronson and Escape from New York on 4K Blu Ray?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, of course. But if you. I don't think he could pull off a half of what's Russell does.

[Zach Lowe]

No. I think you need stunt doubles. All that stuff. He felt like in this movie, he said he. He said I was a really miscast person. It was more a theme that would have been better for Dustin Hoffman or somebody who could play a weaker kind of man. Dustin, he's like, oh, well.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he. Hoffman had just been in Straw Dogs, where that's the entire point of his character.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Still. Shots fired. Michael Winner, the director said, take it. We'll make him a more active and virile architect, and we'll all make a pot full of money. I don't know where Vero got in there. It's not like Charles is, like, laying pipe there.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think because this novel, I don't even.

[Zach Lowe]

I guess in Hawaii maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He tries to. And then, like, he kind of he kind of gets a little bit of a bachelor pad going.

[Zach Lowe]

He does there. Right there. Feels like there's a deleted scene or two. Yeah. An escort where he's back out on the.

[Bill Simmons]

On the. When he goes to the prostitute diner, too.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

In any case, the fascinating part about this is adapted from a novel by Brian Gardner, I think. What was his last.

[Zach Lowe]

Brian? Garfield.

[Bill Simmons]

Garfield.

[Zach Lowe]

And I bought it on ebay.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

And part of my collection of movies turned books turned into movies.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a version of this movie that is way closer to, like, say, Dog Day or Serpico.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Than what we get. And I think that's why Bronson was probably identifying how he was. He was the awkward fit. But then Michael Winter turns out to be right, that they. They have identified a 1970s anxiety and talking point that the movie dramatizes and fantasizes about. That I think, like, captured something.

[Zach Lowe]

Serpico, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver. And then at the same time, Woody Allen's making Nanny Holland, Manhattan. And this is, like, completely different side of New York that seems way more fun. And then by the time we get to the late 80s, they start embracing New York as, like, a happy character. Yet When Harry Met Sally.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you wish there was a scene where. Where Paul and Death Wish was walking by Annie and Alvy from Annie Hall.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he probably shoots. He probably shoots Alvy. Yeah, Alvy. Whatever his name was. This film became a big deal. Bronson became a huge star. It eventually copycatted. It had these copycat vigilante incidents, most famously in 1984, which I remember because I was living in Connecticut at the time. Bernard Getz just wiped out four subway dudes. And it became the Death Wish Murder and became like, it was the biggest story in the Tri State area for a year. And it felt like something. And then it would turn into, like, people going on talk shows talking about pros and cons of just being able to shoot people. Wacky era.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they're doing that in the. In the media drops in Death Wish itself.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I think one of the reasons why this is such a. Interesting movie to talk about on this pod is this was so. Such a divisive movie at the time.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The reviews were like, all right, nice job, or this is a deplorable piece of shit that should be flushed down the toilet. And it's true. There was such a spectrum of responses.

[Zach Lowe]

We're feeling the same thing with the. With the Ringer team.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean the hush from over here?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know if the guys. The Guys over there. Craig might just be like, I'm not even reviewing this. At the end of it. Michael Winner. The mechanic. Scorpio is Scorpio. And the stone killer. Scorpio. Great title for a movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Burt Lancaster.

[Zach Lowe]

I feel like Scorpio. I'm probably in good hands. I don't really need to know anything else.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like CIA assassin Scorpio.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I sure am. He. He kind of goes off the. They bring him back for Death Wish.

[Bill Simmons]

2 where he goes to LA.

[Zach Lowe]

Which if you think. If you think. This movie has a pretty deplorable assault scene in it. Death Wish 2 is like, hold my beer. And has one of the worst scenes that I actually can't. I think there's been stories written about it. Like, it's kind of like the peak of how. Why did you guys decide this was a good idea to do it? A movie that's going to be in the theater and there's a lot of stuff written about just how weird he was. Michael Winner.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't know.

[Zach Lowe]

Death Wish two is la.

[Bill Simmons]

Death Wish three. He comes home, back to New York.

[Zach Lowe]

FYI, all of these are on To Be Pluto. Wherever you're.

[Bill Simmons]

I watched a little. I refreshed my memory about Death Wish 3 last night. Ed. Louder. From Longest Yard.

[Zach Lowe]

I gotta be honest. Three is pretty solid. Three is not against three.

[Bill Simmons]

Three is goofy as shit. Three is like Paul comes back to New York from LA and essentially gets the green light from cops.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

To start going around and killing thugs. But the thugs are way closer to Escape from New York thugs.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Than the 1970s guys.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, that was when the. We talked.

[Bill Simmons]

And Alex Winter is in it.

[Zach Lowe]

Golan Globus.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And those guys. There's a great documentary that we talked about with one of the Kyle Brandt pods. Those guys are just like, need a star. Give him some money. We're just gonna crank out these action movies. We don't care if they're good. And they made four Death Wish sequels.

[Bill Simmons]

Unbelievable.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Death Wish 3 is not terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I. Yeah, it's.

[Zach Lowe]

If you're looking for. If you're in that cobra kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Area, if you're doing the. To be surf.

[Zach Lowe]

It's not terrible. And I gotta be honest, I don't. I don't hate death wish 2 either. You just gotta skip the first half hour. As soon as he's in la, like, there's five guys I need to kill. I'm just gonna go through and try to find them one at a time. Pretty Good.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a little bit more precise than Death Wish 2.

[Zach Lowe]

There's a great scene in Death Wish 2 where I think somebody's on PCP. One of the guys he needs to kill and the guy jumps out a window and the cops start coming at him and all of a sudden the guy turns into, like, Adrian peterson in the 2006 season. Just.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you saying that Adrian Peterson was on angel dust?

[Zach Lowe]

No, just like, pick the best football player you've ever seen.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, no, I know.

[Zach Lowe]

He's shedding tackers, flipping guys over, and he fights cops for like a minute. I think it becomes a social video every once in a while.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I've. I've. The pcp, whatever. The. The anti PCP lobby. It really worked. Really scared me off.

[Zach Lowe]

If you had a run in TV and movies where it scared the living hell.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because it was like, you do it. And there would never be like, oh, I'm high. It would always be like, I'm jumping out of a window or like, head butting a car. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I remember there was a White Shadow episode where somebody went to the roof. No. When it really got an After School Special territory.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And somebody took it and just jumped off the roof of the school.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And was like, I can fly. And I was like, I'm never fucking going pcp, though.

[Bill Simmons]

The real danger was like, it could be in weed. That was always the. The scary old wives tale they would tell you is that.

[Zach Lowe]

That could be.

[Bill Simmons]

That could be angel dust.

[Zach Lowe]

And now we have fentanyl.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Zach Lowe]

Same thing. Yeah. You like to get well, what I tell my kids. Yeah. Be careful. This movie was made for 3.7 million and it made $30 million. Roger Eber gave it three stars.

[Bill Simmons]

What an interesting man.

[Zach Lowe]

Death Wish is a quasi fascist advertisement for urban vigilantes done up in a slick and exciting action movie. We like it even when we're turned off by the message. That was Raj.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Then he said, michael Winner gives us a New York in the grip of a reign of terror. This doesn't look like 1974, but like one of these bloody future cities and science fiction novels about anarchy in the 21st century. Literally every shadow holds a mugger. Every subway train harbors a killer. The park is a breeding ground for crime. Urban paranoia is one thing, but Death Wish is another. Raj, he's early. Raj is like, he's not even looking at this.

[Bill Simmons]

The actual New York Times called this film irresponsible. Yeah. I think a lot of. I mean, there were a lot of critics.

[Zach Lowe]

Did your dad review this?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a little bit before his movie critic days. This is 74. I don't think he was doing movies until 7. The later 70s.

[Zach Lowe]

Think about.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have hated it, though.

[Zach Lowe]

Think about the New York parks and all the shit that was going on from a movie standpoint.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, like with Cruising. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

The Warriors.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

If you just ever liked maybe AI you just merged all these things together.

[Bill Simmons]

The New York cinematic universe of the 1970s. This is a billion dollar idea. Actually, it's not a billion dollar.

[Zach Lowe]

I do this. Yeah. Just put everybody together.

[Bill Simmons]

Sam Altman, come on. I want Alino from Cruising. Hanging out with Roy Scheider and Marathon Man.

[Zach Lowe]

One other thing about this movie is we talk about titles a lot. One of the best titles.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this the origin of the term death wish? Pretty much.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Were people like, man, that guy's got a death wish before. Death wish.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. How do we find that out as chatgpt? Chat.

[Bill Simmons]

No, don't do that.

[Zach Lowe]

It could be a chat gbt. No, I. I would assume it popularized it.

[Bill Simmons]

It definitely did. Right.

[Zach Lowe]

My only regret is nobody says the word, the phrase death wish during the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. But it's. It's very. I think it's interesting that Paul is the one that has the death wish, you know, like he's the one who's pushing it and putting himself at risk.

[Zach Lowe]

But nobody says you've got a death wish, man.

[Bill Simmons]

No. Do they ever say that in two or three, I can't remember.

[Zach Lowe]

Probably they. They work it in. You know, they say it in 48 hours, which I. I forgot.

[Bill Simmons]

There you go.

[Zach Lowe]

Because Kate says to Reggie, they gave me 40. They gave me 48 hours to find out whatever I'm like title.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

There. Boom. Did it. We're gonna take a break and we're going to come back and do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed. Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast. Terms apply. All right, most rewatchable scene. This movie somehow doesn't have a rewatchable scene for 40 minutes, which I think means you can just come right in. 40 minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, if you're like, if you don't feel like you have the stomach for it, I think you can Skip to the 40 minute mark. You could probably skip to him going to Tucson. And then you want to wait for.

[Zach Lowe]

What stage the worst to talk about that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

No, let's do it now. Because I think it's a really difficult point of entry for people.

[Zach Lowe]

The movie starts during Hawaii. She's great, Loves his wife, having a great time, good vacation, comes back.

[Bill Simmons]

Maui in the 70s. Looks awesome.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, every time we're in Maui, I had this. In what stage? The best. There's been a lot of stuff from the 70s in Hawaii, and it's always amazing. Brady Bunch. I remember they went there for three episodes. It was great.

[Bill Simmons]

Also. It just is always great to watch it. Just be like, the guy could just walk up to the desk and be like, here's my plane ticket. No tsa.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Well, it also just seemed like you could go on any beach, just bring a blanket.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Nobody's like, excuse me, sir. So they come back and the wife and daughter are like, let's go get some groceries. They decide to get the groceries delivered, and Jeff Goldblum and his two cronies.

[Bill Simmons]

Follow, stalk them back to their apartment.

[Zach Lowe]

And it's a pretty awful scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

That I. I honestly, I don't understand some of this stuff with the 70s, but I. It really feels like a lot of the goal was to provoke people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, it wasn't just with violence. It was with sex or whatever else. And it's just like the kind of scene that would just never, ever happen now.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what's also weird is that I kind of wonder how many times I had actually seen this movie on TV versus the actual movie. Film. Film.

[Zach Lowe]

Good point.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I forgot how graphic it was. So when I was watching it for this, I was like, oh, this is way worse than Deliverance. You know, this is pretty. This is pretty close to spit on your grave. And some of, like, the exploitation, like, grindhouse horror. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And I wonder what do you do that? Because you're trying to set up, like, this is why this guy snapped. Because.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but it almost works better if it's a better actor than Bronson. Like, that's the thing, is, like, Bronson's not reacting that emotionally to what happened to his wife and daughter. So it's like you do that if you were gonna do maybe some of the other actors that you had and, like, watch them go into, like, deep emotional crisis.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Bronson's Just like, I guess I gotta go back to my apartment.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I gotta. I got a thing to do in Arizona.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Next week. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

The son in law is like, dad, we've got trouble.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He's. He seems not really grasping the stuff either. Anyway, it's a weird way to start a movie. Not going to defend it but once.

[Bill Simmons]

And then a lot of vigilante movies after the fact. And I want to say there's a blanket term, but I think roughly more than half, if not 70%, the violence against the person's family either takes place off screen or is obscured somehow. Like it's like you get the impression of what happened, but it's not like, hey, let's spend like five minutes watching Jeff Goldblum do this.

[Zach Lowe]

Very strange.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, the first rewatchable scene is the role of Quarters.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

Which is just great.

[Bill Simmons]

It's also like, why is he in the bank getting quarters, getting $20 and quarters.

[Zach Lowe]

What's he got in his hand? And he's just kind of waiting for somebody.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But the best part is when he comes back and he starts swinging the roll of quarters around. It's like just kind of loses his mind.

[Bill Simmons]

Easily the most gifable moment for this.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

It starts swinging it against the thing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We gotta do a best like DIY weapons power ranking.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a really good idea.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But this is like when the warriors win with just buddy healed. It's just swinging quarters around.

[Zach Lowe]

Actual quote from my wife. This movie makes me want to go out with a roll of quarters and beat up bad guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, put that, put that in her. Wikipedia. The Wild west saloon brawl's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I just wanted to point out.

[Zach Lowe]

Does this happen?

[Bill Simmons]

I like where they do like stage.

[Zach Lowe]

That was an elaborate stage.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I couldn't believe how good that was. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You ever see like the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular at Disney?

[Zach Lowe]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty cool.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

As cool as that. I mean, falling off roofs and.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. There's like they do the whole boulder chase in the Indiana Jones thing. Like the guy runs away from a boulder. Yeah. It's a Disney, I think, or Universal. Anyway, the, the whole sequence actually it's a sneaky, almost best, most rewatchable scene for me. Like the 10 minute Tucson sequence.

[Zach Lowe]

I do know something about Gun Zanes. I grew up with them. All kinds of guns. You see, my father was a hunter. I guess out here you call up a gunman. My mother was the other side of the coin when my father was killed in A hunting accident. Some fool mistook him for a deer. You see, my mother won the toss. I never touched a gun since. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just because it really lays the groundwork not only for what Paul's going to become. Get a little bit of like, oh, when I was a child, I used to handle Gunda all the time.

[Zach Lowe]

But the Bronson's getting better.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he really workshopping it. He's really workshopping the Bronson.

[Bill Simmons]

The Jane Chill character is awesome. Like, the guys taking him around Tucson and then just the connecting. What's going on with the Paul character in 1970s with our perception of what cowboys in the 1870s were like.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And like the wild west mythology, wild west justice, vigilantes out on the. On the open range kind of thing. Yeah, I think that could be a.

[Zach Lowe]

Good name for your first son, Ames.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Ames Horlbeck.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I can tell. My.

[Zach Lowe]

Sounds like a kick ass kid.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I named him after Death Wish.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys ever seen Death Wish?

[Zach Lowe]

The best character in Death Wish. Kersey's first shooting is my next rewatchable, which leads to then the second shooting, which is the three on one. That's one with the movie. That would be. What's that? What's our category? The. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

When the movie goes up a notch.

[Zach Lowe]

When he's just like looking around, it's like, hey, there's three guys robbing somebody in an alley. Yeah, I'm gonna take all three of them down. So I really enjoyed the police sergeant in this movie, played by Gardenia. Yeah. He has 40 people in the office. We could be looking for a man who's had a member, all members of his family, killed by muggers. Now he shoots that pistol pretty good. Right? Okay. Combat veteran. So put Vietnam vets at the top of the list, because the youngest and toughest. Then you can work your way through Korea and World War II. Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really funny.

[Zach Lowe]

Another thing I love about these 70s New York Police movies is just the police station scenes and just. Which I guess were all real. It all looks like Barney Miller on, like, steroids.

[Bill Simmons]

Either that or they were shooting so much police stuff back then, and they were shooting so many movies and TV shows that they had working sets, you know, so that they were able to like, kind of dress it a little bit differently, but they would have, like a police precinct set. A lot of this stuff feels location like the. The first precinct that he walks into to find the detective who's working on his wife's case.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then there's the guy who's like, I need my dog. He's key to my income.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

That hole seems like an actual police station.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, he somehow figures out in 90 seconds. Check all the murders from the last three months. He's probably a combat vet. I think he's a vigilante. He just does all this Alpha One alley shooting.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we're supposed to. OO is like, supposed to be, like, this amazing Popeye Doyle level famous cop because he's on People magazine.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Major celebrity. The subway double murder would be my next scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, Kersey's really getting into it because he comes back for the second shot for each guy to make sure you're deadshot. It's like, oh, you're really.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the Neil McCauley. I think I actually got served a YouTube video the other day that is Macaulay killing Wangro and Heat. And it's apparently called, like, Mozambique Technique. And I was like, I'm in a bad part of YouTube when I am now getting weird, like, Soldiers of Fortune videos that are praising Heat for their execution.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, my God. That's where you have to do the Please don't recommend me this video anymore tab.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, I haven't done that yet, but okay, I will.

[Zach Lowe]

Done that a few times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. There's one time it. I don't know what happened, but it recommended a Dan Levitar clip to me, and I went right in there and I said, I'm not interested. Next one. Subway platform shooting. Curses little. He's heat checking it at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because the. Also the really interesting part of this movie is whether or not Kersey's getting addicted to the game.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, no question. You know, this one, he. He raises the stakes. He ends up getting stabbed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He's walking around. He's. He's flashing money. Diners and stuff. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. That's when he takes out. What is that giant wallet he has? There's just, like, huge wad of cash. And he's like, h. How much is my coffee? Next one is the. The big ending scene. Kiry on the big parks in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Park in the promenade. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Guys got a gun at the top. We got Boom Boom Washington at the bottom from welcome Back Cotter with another guy. Shoots all three, gets shot, and then chases the dude. We got a little chase scene. And then passes out Red. He's like Delia Hind and then passes out. And then I would throw in at the end, just the cop telling him to get out. Let's pretend this never happened. Inspect the Sundown and then that's it.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's like having this fantasy life where he's still a cowboy. It's crazy, but it's actually like a really interesting portrait of a guy coming apart. I don't know. Always that Bronson is like up to that part of the job, which is like, like the serious side of this movie. But he's really good at shooting guys.

[Zach Lowe]

So your favorite's the saloon bra.

[Bill Simmons]

I just like as part of the film. In some ways the, the Tucson stuff is my favorite part. But the last shootout is like the iconic. This is.

[Zach Lowe]

And he's great. Well, one of the reasons this was a rewatchable first of all was on tv like you said you never saw like the really bad stuff. This was on tv.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like whenever I would turn it on, it would be him stalking around New York City and my, my dad would be like, oh, he's going.

[Zach Lowe]

To do roll the quarters. Yeah. This was on TV for 40 years. And you could always just come in at the roll of quarters and just watch him just gun down bad guys for an hour. It's basically a western. I'm going with the same thing. What's the most 1974 thing about this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

God, what isn't creepy, scary?

[Zach Lowe]

1970S New York City. A movie hero who is a Korean War vet. You don't get that very often.

[Bill Simmons]

50 year old Korean War vet. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

TWA airlines.

[Bill Simmons]

Just walk on there and thank you, Howard Hughes.

[Zach Lowe]

TWA sounded great. The assault scene we mentioned very 1974. The overcoats in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just the way the guys dress.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. There's like these weird. The colors are like down and I didn't really understand those. And then this is my number one magazine. Billboards telling us what's happening in the story through like Harper, all the front page magazine and People magazine and these big billboards of magazines. When's the last time we had a billboard of a magazine?

[Bill Simmons]

A long time ago. Pre Internet, probably decades. Yeah. I would say another 1974 thing for me was guys taking long boozy lunches and being racist. Like Sam and Paul are going to like a long bar and grill lunch in the middle of the day. And they'd be like, let's go draw some buildings. I've had four pops and a steak.

[Zach Lowe]

I just wish the world was all white people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Can I have another scotch please?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, one more 1974 thing. Has anyone eaten liver with spaghetti since 1974? He makes his son in law that.

[Zach Lowe]

In what stage? The word. Yeah, if. If I went to somebody's house and they asked do I want the liver with the spaghetti or on the side. I'm out. That sounds. Who eats liver?

[Bill Simmons]

I had liver last week, fall. And I. I'm just getting over it.

[Zach Lowe]

Did you guys ever. Do you have ever had liver?

[Craig Horlbeck]

No. What. What animal's liver is it?

[Bill Simmons]

Cow.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Cow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean I. It was delicious.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Was it?

[Bill Simmons]

But I felt like it was coming off my skin. Like smell wise for a long time.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like liver worst or something. That's like a grandpa meal.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Growing up, there's just no scenario.

[Bill Simmons]

My dad, when we were tongue, we used to drive from Philly to Vermont and my dad would always stop up at a Howard Johnson's on the New York State Thruway.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And get liver and onions. And I'd be like, I'm driving with mom now.

[Zach Lowe]

Cap it up with a couple six. Smoking at the table. Eating the liver and onions special.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

What's age? The best. We mentioned old school. 70s police stations. Yeah. Really enjoy that environment. Cities with wildly different views on guns I think has weirdly aged well since we're in that area still.

[Bill Simmons]

We still are.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Do you find it comforting to watch stuff that's set in like the 70s or whenever and realize that we're just arguing about the same things forever?

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

We didn't. Rather than like, oh, the world is falling apart. It's like, oh, it turns out we've been having this fight for a long time.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff they talk about in this movie are like, all right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Definitely would hear that exchange right now. Somewhere I read this thing, there's an article about why people watch the same movies and TV shows over and over again. It's a big feature. They did a study on it. Do you know what the answer is?

[Bill Simmons]

Why?

[Zach Lowe]

Because it relaxes people. Because they're not tense when they watch something. When they don't know where it's going, you get a little more whatever. And I was like, they've just described the rewatchables off the tweet that out of the rewatch.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you find that comfort?

[Zach Lowe]

Like me watching 48 Hours last night, even though I've seen it 395 times right before I fell asleep.

[Bill Simmons]

I do that with. I've done that with Big Trouble in little China like 10 times this year.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just like, I just want the opening 20 minutes of big Trouble in Little China before I go to bed.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. But that's like.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's comfort food.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's comfort, but there's like an entire.

[Zach Lowe]

Like calms your body down Brawl between.

[Bill Simmons]

Triads in Big Trouble Giant. I don't know why it's comforting.

[Zach Lowe]

This is so relaxing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Two more. What stage is best for me? Traumatized movie characters who become catatonic.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I always feel like it's a good gimmick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you can't snap out of it.

[Zach Lowe]

Can't snap out of it. She snaps adamant in Death Wish too.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, she comes to Los Angeles. Yeah. Really.

[Zach Lowe]

Sergeant Frank picking up the People magazine that he's on. I really enjoy when he's like looking at the COVID What do you have?

[Bill Simmons]

I have Charles Bronson's beach body. It's aged the best, but it's also like not a body you see anymore. Paul becoming addicted to the hunt is really cool. Like even after they're like, hey, all you have to do is just get out of town. Like we're, we're, we're cool to look the other way on this one. And he's just like, I don't know. I really love it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He gets a taste.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then all the New York media coverage of. Of Paul, like giving him a nickname. All the like press conferences.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really. It's kind of amazing to watch like the. The churn of newspaper and TV journalism back then pre. Like any kind of Internet and just the depiction of that.

[Zach Lowe]

It. Den of Thieves Beni Hana Awards scene. Stealing location.

[Bill Simmons]

I got sex worker diner.

[Zach Lowe]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Seemed like an incredible cast of characters in there. The lady was like, there goes the.

[Zach Lowe]

That's like a film within a film.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, you're right. I had the part. That last park shootout.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

With the stair is just like really well done. Meanwhile, Pacino and Cruising's over in the little tunnel on the side. The baseball Furies are walking by. What do you have for. Great shot, Gordo. Most cinematic.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty disturbing, but all the weird wide angle lenses of the mother and daughter like kind of hanging out in the apartment before the thugs get there. There's like. It just makes you feel so on edge because you're like, why is this almost like fisheye?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The way they're sitting on the bed and talking. And I think it's. It really gets under your skin as does obviously the subsequent sequence.

[Zach Lowe]

Kid Cudi, Pursuit of Happiness Award, dude.

[Bill Simmons]

Herbie Hancock, best needle drop cooking in this.

[Zach Lowe]

Herbie's cooking.

[Bill Simmons]

Absolutely amazing score.

[Zach Lowe]

Can I give you one other candidate?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Paul Kersey, when he invites his son in law over and He's. He's blasting game show music and making liver and spaghetti. And it's like.

[Bill Simmons]

If I was the son in law, I would have been like, you know, dad, there's a bed right next to.

[Zach Lowe]

A website called BetterHelp.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I think you should call. He's just lost his mind at that point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Why isn't he playing like disco or I don't know, like Jethro Tull.

[Bill Simmons]

And I love it. He's like, turn it up. I can't hear it while I deliver this.

[Zach Lowe]

How do you like your liver? The Chess, Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name. Ames Giant Chill. Good is the guy's name.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Inspector Franco Choa is pretty. Pretty classic cop name.

[Zach Lowe]

Did he look like an Italian to you though? I guess. I guess he's Vincent Gardini.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Did he look like a Frank Ochoa?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I just really. I think it's a strong. Inspector Ochoa is a really good cop name. For the 70s especially.

[Zach Lowe]

What do you have for your flex category choice?

[Bill Simmons]

Boy, oh boy. The I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for craziest quote Jeff Bolt Goldblum screaming kill rich.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, no.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if we could use that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

But that is it.

[Bill Simmons]

He screams that and then he hits the. He kills his wife.

[Zach Lowe]

It's pretty awful.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

You think we should change the award?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no, I don't know if we're gonna change. Change like that new title of the award. I just don't know if I can say the C word.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't probably that. Okay. Have to bleep it. But I think you're right.

[Bill Simmons]

It's that or it's like Jeff Goldblum saying, shit, we want money. Mother.

[Zach Lowe]

He is. Well, he's coming up Butcher's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. Other than that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack, the son in law.

[Zach Lowe]

I have the son in law. He's horrible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He's just a horrible character.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't understand any piece of it. Why he's such a loser. Why he's not. More like obviously his father in law is losing his mind and he can see it. Doesn't seem concerned about that. Doesn't even really seem that concerned about his wife. Dad, they're gonna put him in a sanitarium tomorrow and just doesn't seem like. I can't believe this happened. Everything about him is off.

[Bill Simmons]

I had this in Apex Mountain, but this character is also. Is definitely Apex Mountain for calling your father in law dad. It's really confusing. Through the movie, I'm like, wait, is that his father? Because if I was Charles Bronson, it would be like, yeah, I'm not your dad.

[Zach Lowe]

I had that. In what stage? The worst son in laws who call their father in law dad. I don't understand. Craig, do you do this?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Absolutely not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I don't think anyone does this anymore.

[Zach Lowe]

I think it's a 70s thing, though. It's like calling your wife the old lady. Yeah. But like things that went sideways.

[Bill Simmons]

He seems so eager to call him dad. He's like, yes, got it. Yeah. Charles Bronson's my dad.

[Zach Lowe]

We rarely get to give this up. But the Steven Seagal, hard to kill a word for. Did this movie need a better intimacy coordinator?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

The answer is yes. And then the Elizabeth shoe is an Oxford electrochemist Award for most ridiculous Casting Charles Bronson as an architect.

[Bill Simmons]

Charles Bronson, architect.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The way that they depict Charles Bronson's architecture skills is him sitting at blueprints for a while, seemingly drawing circles.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then later he's just like. He is a development. And it's like. Like a Monopoly board with a bunch of little houses. And they're like, this is going to lose a lot of money, but it's beautiful.

[Zach Lowe]

Look at all these. I put some olive trees right there.

[Bill Simmons]

Everybody has a hill in a backyard.

[Zach Lowe]

This episode is brought to you by Loom by Atlassian, who missed out on Star wars by one week. I'm sure it was frustrating for them. You know what? You know what else is frustrating? Even more frustrating than being a week late when you could have been in the Star wars episode and instead you're in Death Wish. It's really frustrating when you start feeling stuck at work with too many unnecessary meetings. Luckily, there's a simple solution for that. Use Loom video messaging. It can simultaneously record both your screen and yourself. You should use this. It's actually good. Okay, I've used this. Share a quick update, provide feedback, train a colleague, everything in between. I'm just going to start looming Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you just like Craig.

[Zach Lowe]

I have some thoughts about your edit.

[Craig Horlbeck]

At 58 minutes, looming me sounds like an HR violation.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Plus add loom AI to your meetings. For instant written notes and recordings, try loom [e-mail]. that is L O O M dot com. Let's go to what stage? The worst. Other than the terrible assault scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, sure. Graphic nature of the rape murder scene.

[Zach Lowe]

The legal apartment search. I had some issues with death. Not possible.

[Bill Simmons]

There's not a single Warrant in this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Not. Not sure that was legal. Just to kind of waltz in with a locksmith.

[Bill Simmons]

I've all heard this. By the same token, that. That crime was out of control. In the cinematic version of the 1970s, New York cops did not adhere to the rule of law.

[Zach Lowe]

They certainly did not. For what seems the worst. I mean, you'd catch the vigilante right now because they'd have cameras everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie would be five minutes.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes. It's like, oh, yeah, he's right there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

Paul Kersey, the architect.

[Bill Simmons]

They would have also, like, like, cameras in the supermarket. Cameras, like in the apartment building. Like, there would not be, like, we snuck in with the movers.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

What do you have for what stage?

[Bill Simmons]

The worst graphic nature of the rape murder scene. The nickname the vigilante. Just dig deeper, New York. Come on.

[Zach Lowe]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like there's. There's not like a single, like, cool element to this killer that.

[Zach Lowe]

Like the Silver Bullet killer.

[Bill Simmons]

The real Batman, something like that. Just Paul's general. I guess it's time to go home and go back to work.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Three days after easily the most traumatizing thing that could happen to somebody. And he's like, well, what am I gonna do? Moan and cry forever?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, and then he doesn't even paint the walls for like a month. He just kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Until he paints them bright orange, which is definitely a sign of a mental breakdown.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, but that. It's. The movie does a good job of like, this guy's lost his marbles. He's making liver and spaghetti and he's got bright orange walls and he's playing game show music.

[Bill Simmons]

That architecture firm did not offer mental health days.

[Zach Lowe]

Definitely not Lawrence Hilton Jacobs as the one of the last muggers who then became Boom Boom Washington. And you know, welcome Back. Cotter was one of the biggest shows of the late 70s. It's just weird to see him in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And Jeff Goldblum from the Big Chill and many other things.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, there's so many random people showing up in this movie. We're like, I can't believe this. But that comes a little bit later, I want to say. Also, since you mentioned the casting, one of the things that's aged the worst is Michael Winner and Charles Bronson talking about who to cast as Paul's wife in the beginning. And I think Michael Winner was like Jill Ireland, who's Charles Bronson's real life wife. And Charles Bronson was like, absolutely not.

[Zach Lowe]

Not after what happens in the movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not having her thrown around by a bunch of thugs. And then they just were like, could you imagine being Hope Lang, who plays the wife?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And be like, oh, great. Thanks, guys. Plan B. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I have. For what stage? The worst. The Bruce Willis 2018 remake. Because I even think when we started Rewatchables, I remember the first year, we. We had some sort of conversation about movies that should be remade. And Death Wish was clearly one of those, like, it's such a great idea. And then they actually did it, and it wasn't good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And it also felt too close to the Equalizer.

[Bill Simmons]

We've done it now. I think if you were gonna really try to, like, do something creative, you would basically have to tell Death Wish from the perspective of the criminals that he's hunting. You know, you would have to be like, we're like a New York couple of New York street guys. But there's this rumor that this crazy white guy is walking around with a gun. And we're, like, now investigating him, but also trying to, like, protect the other criminals. Flipping on its head.

[Zach Lowe]

I'd probably watch. It was there, but do you have any more? What's his worst? Was there a better title for this movie? An old category I brought back. Dino De Laurentiis was involved in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Another.

[Zach Lowe]

Another one of my heroes in Paramount. And they originally wanted to call this film the Sidewalk Vigilante.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's better than just the Vigilante.

[Zach Lowe]

Because they thought death being in the title was a deterrent. Boy, were they wrong. I think Death was the opposite of a deterrent. The ruffle hand of Rubyk Partridge. Overacting word. The three bad guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Golden Gold.

[Zach Lowe]

Boom.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know what is going on. The guy, lead singer from Midnight Oil, Goldblum. And then the other guy, and they just arrange.

[Bill Simmons]

Goldblum, like, is in the warriors, like, four years early or five years early. He's just doing. It's so amazing. They, like. He's been asked about this movie a couple of times since then, where it's just like, oh, you kind of ashamed that that's your early film. He's like, no, I got to be in the movies.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, right?

[Bill Simmons]

And I think it was because he knew, like, a band guy, like a guy in a band who just got him into. Got him into this film.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, mom, go see my new movie, Death Wish. I'm in the first 15 minutes. You can't miss me.

[Bill Simmons]

What a rocket ship to, like, start me in Big Chill a couple years later, Right?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah. The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so this. You go first because mine goes right into casting what ifs.

[Zach Lowe]

Vigilantes.

[Bill Simmons]

What does that mean?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. Crime rate went down. Maybe we need some. Cut the crime rate in half.

[Bill Simmons]

Minor groans in the back of this room.

[Zach Lowe]

Let's just. Let's. Let's talk it out.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, this is. I'm tough on crime. The Minority Report. Remember I was for it. Keep the preconds in the milk.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. I think that there's a difference between a vigilante and a thrill seeker with a death wish.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And Paul's out there. Like, he didn't even do any detective work of like, let me find Goldblum. Right. He's just like, I'm just going around gunning guys down.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That was my biggest question is, like, why didn't he ever try to find them?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What's going on there?

[Zach Lowe]

Craig, I present to you Death Wish too. Because he finds them one at a time. What do you have for how to.

[Bill Simmons]

Say there is a version of this film? The original director who was approached for it was Sidney Lumet. And one of the original pairings of actors was supposed to be Jack Lemmon and Henry Fonda as Ochoa within Death Wish. Within this sort of iconic vigilante action movie that spawned multiple sequels. I think there is like an amazing fucked up 70s drama film.

[Zach Lowe]

Couldn't agree more.

[Bill Simmons]

About like emasculated New York businessman whose family is taken from him and is like, I don't have the tools to process what's happened to me. And Jack Lemmon would have been. Been an incredible idea. I don't know if it would have worked, but it would have been. I love to have seen the Sidney Lumet, Jack Lemmon version of this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

So he turned it down and do Serpico. Would you rather he did Serpico or.

[Bill Simmons]

I would rather he had done Serpico. Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. If I don't get that Pacino performance, then you. That's a huge.

[Zach Lowe]

Would have been nice. As Serpico right into Death Wish with Jack Lemmon. I'm with you. Steve McQueen also turned it down. Clint Eastwood said, no thanks. Allegedly. Who knows? Burt Lancaster, George C. Scott, Frank Sinatra, Lee Marvin.

[Bill Simmons]

Spend a second talking about Elvis Presley.

[Zach Lowe]

Who's the last one?

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, I guess this is a relatively larger version of Elvis. Right. By 74.

[Zach Lowe]

Let me tell you something. 1974, Elvis playing Paul Kersey in Death Wish sounds like the greatest Movie. I'd own on anything.

[Bill Simmons]

You would rather Presley than Sinatra?

[Zach Lowe]

I just don't think Sinatra does it. He's like. My wife would never be insulted. Yeah, he would get some weird aggro Sinatra thing. Right. As you know, he was the coolest guy in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

I think George C. Scott would have been good.

[Zach Lowe]

Elvis crammed into like an architect two piece suit that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, what you got? Put a little building over there on the hill. Yeah. Georgey Scott doing this in hardcore would probably be a little intense for him.

[Zach Lowe]

He would have been good though.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You know what? That's true. We've done hardcore. You know. Death Wish is not Uncharted Terror.

[Zach Lowe]

Another New York, I guess that was.

[Bill Simmons]

He goes to la.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, but same.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Mayu. Same same.

[Zach Lowe]

Kind of like big city, falling apart type of thing. Best that guy award.

[Bill Simmons]

I got Jack Wallace, Detective Hank. He's also in Boogie Nights.

[Zach Lowe]

He's. Yeah, he's the guy with. With Ricky J. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And he's Ochoa's partner or like a sort of.

[Zach Lowe]

He's been a lot of stuff. He's the guy for the people who saw the movie with the huge mustache. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He was like, I'm not gonna ask any more questions.

[Zach Lowe]

The son in law is played by Stephen Keats, who was also in Friends of Eddie Coyle. Big part, Black Sunday and then one of my favorites, Silent Rage. Oh yeah, he played one of the doctors. Did we do Silent Rage yet?

[Bill Simmons]

We have not.

[Zach Lowe]

It might be one of Craig's 10 favorite movies we've ever done once he sees it. Yeah, it's really good. Chuck Norris, Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Haven't seen it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's been a while since I've seen it.

[Zach Lowe]

Guy wouldn't die. Dion Waiter's Word. Ames Janshel, Would you go with. Or would you go with Amelie Brown, the lady in the newscast who fought off the muggers.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, with the hat pin. I have Stuart Morgolan as Jane Shull.

[Zach Lowe]

The Lena Dunham running the Spahn Ranch award for most jarring casting decision. I'll give you Jeff Goldblum. Or I'll give you Christopher Guest as the cop who finds the gun.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll give you Olympia Dukakis as the. The lady cop.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Who starts to figure out the entire thing.

[Zach Lowe]

They should redo this as like on Amazon and just have all of them in the cast. Like they had major parts.

[Bill Simmons]

They should also do it as. As a Christopher Guest mockumentary.

[Zach Lowe]

He. Why he shouldn't have done that. Like a violent mockumentary recasting Couch director City. I had John Cazale as the son in law.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, man. I mean, John Cazale would be another. Imagine him playing Paul. That would have been amazing.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, him as Paul Kersey.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. Dude. Yeah. Paul shouldn't be this, like, Greek God, you know, he should be like a. A frail dude.

[Zach Lowe]

You don't talk to a guy like Ames Gensho like that half ass Internet research. Bronson asked for a California based location so that he could be with his family in Bel Air. And they said, you. We're filming this in New York City. There's a lot of good bra. I didn't realize how much good, bro. We'd never really done a Bronson before. I didn't realize how much good Bronson research. He was like, by all accounts, rough hang.

[Bill Simmons]

This is our first Bronson.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We haven't done.

[Zach Lowe]

Everyone's like, yeah. Kept to himself and a little difficult.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, nobody was like, oh, man, I love Charlie. Great guy. Not a lot of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think he behaved himself on like the Great Escape or Dirty Dozen sets, though?

[Zach Lowe]

I think he was just super quiet and not like, where we going tonight? After the shooting, was he a good enough actor to.

[Craig Horlbeck]

To warrant that behavior? Like, why. Why were people keeping.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think that there was a different. It was a different system back then. And it's like if he's a guy who keeps his body in shape and can convincingly fire a gun, he's got a job for life.

[Zach Lowe]

He was basically like the Colts getting Daniel Jones because they needed a QB.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. Who is he in this scenario?

[Zach Lowe]

McQueen. Those guys were getting all the roles. And then Bronson's. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

We dropped down to.

[Zach Lowe]

We've signed Justin Fields for two years for 20 million a year. Like, he. He was kind of in that mode, but then he kind of became as big as Clint Eastwood for like three years.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's like if you're seven feet tall and you can block shots, you'll be in the NBA.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. The writer of the book, Death Wish, Garfield, Brian Garfield, he was furious about the film. He called it Incendiary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because his book is much more critical of vigilantism. Probably number one on. Well, did you start reading it at all or did you just get it as like, to check it out?

[Zach Lowe]

I actually want to read it, but I know it's completely different than the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He wrote two books that were. I don't know if they were very similar, but, like, two got optioned and this one wound up being like a Big deal.

[Zach Lowe]

He wrote a follow up called Death Sentence, which was a response to this movie. Not made into a movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it all get the death sentence in it?

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe. Bronson defended the film, said it was intended to be a commentary on violence, meant to attack violence, not romanticize it. I think that the first romanticized it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, but do you say that because you've seen Death Wish 2 and 3 and all the other stuff from it, like, do you think that this film romanticizes violence?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, the last hour of the movie, you're like, get him, Chuck, get him.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not. I was really like, this is. This is fucked up. I'm. I wasn't like, this is fucked up. But I was like, I'm watching a guy spiral out. It's a little bit more like Taxi Driver. If you just watch it in the context of one film. If you watch it in the context of part of a franchise where this guy goes all over the country killing people.

[Zach Lowe]

I was watching it from the perspective of man on the subway platform. Just take those two down. Don't let the guy get behind you. Just. They're right in front of you.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he wants the challenge in that case.

[Zach Lowe]

So one other thing for Half Assed. There was always a rumor that Denzel played one of the alley thugs in his first movie appearance.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Zach Lowe]

At the 47 minute mark. And this kept going and going. And then finally he gave an interview where he was like, I wasn't in Death Wish.

[Bill Simmons]

Was he like, I wish I was?

[Zach Lowe]

No, he just put the kibosh on it. He said he hadn't been acting yet, but he was mad that it was added to his IMDb page.

[Bill Simmons]

That's funny.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Fish burns in too, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, he's in the scene that somehow, like, is a hundred times worse than the Death Wish one scene. Apex Mountain Bronson, I think. Yes. Apex Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But like, it's not my personal apex. For him.

[Zach Lowe]

No. But for him, this leads to hard times and he's like a massive star.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

This movie, I mean that. No question, question. Vigilantes. Maybe it turned into a phenomenon in the 70s.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Where would you go for scary New York City movies?

[Bill Simmons]

Warriors?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, me too. Right there. Vincent Gardenia. I guess he was in Moonstruck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I feel like he's.

[Zach Lowe]

He's really.

[Bill Simmons]

This is probably his. I mean, he's. He takes up most of the second half of this film.

[Zach Lowe]

They bring him back for two.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He goes see, he. He sees some killings that are going on in la. And decides to take a little Axle Foley ass cross country trip to make sure what's going on. Vigilante movies, I think. Yes. Unless you want to qualify John Wick because they killed his dog.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a really good example of like basically John Wick is Death Wish. But then take it in an entirely different direction. But the first John Wick is essentially Death Wish.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I feel like when it's is Tate is taken a vigilante movie because he's specifically just killing those guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And it's his and it's. She's not killed. It's just a kidnapping.

[Zach Lowe]

I feel like this one stands.

[Bill Simmons]

Wick and Paul can't come back. Like that's the whole point taken. He's still got to maintain some semblance of a soul. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Death Wish 1. He's basically like this broke my brain. I'm going to now solve crime by myself.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And eat liver.

[Zach Lowe]

Listen to game show music. Cruise or Hanks. Oh, no, I didn't finish. Sorry. Apex Mountain. No, I did.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess I have a couple of Apex Mountains. This Apex Mountain for switchblades in movies. Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

There was a great Switchblade era.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just guys getting knives. Knives pulled on them. It's a great movie setup because you're like, it's dangerous, but it might not be that dangerous.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. But you can.

[Bill Simmons]

I can trump this. Painting your apartment orange two weeks after your wife is murdered there.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain.

[Zach Lowe]

For that I'd probably move.

[Bill Simmons]

And guys calling their father in law's dad.

[Zach Lowe]

No question. Cruiser. Hanks. I have Hanks. I think it's Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's Hanks.

[Zach Lowe]

Craig, who'd you have? Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You need the softness. The turn needs to be the most shocking Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

So it would be cool though if we had Vince Vincent from Collateral as Paul.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, hey, homie, is that my briefcase?

[Zach Lowe]

I think this is the movie I wanted Hanks to make. Really thousands or 2010s. Yeah. We needed. Let's get a little darker. Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. He just never wanted to. He always wanted to do Jimmy Stewart. Scorsese or Spielberg. It's obviously Scorsese. Although Spielberg's version would have been quite different. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he could have done a lot of things very young. He could have been one of the thugs I think around the master and like later in life he could have done. He could have done the main role. He could have been Paul in a different version of this film. And I think he would have made a cool Ochoa.

[Zach Lowe]

I had. I had Kersey, but I think he would have been a good achoa. Craig, you're up with the flex category.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I'm gonna go with the Dan Campbell scale for Holy. Are they really going for this right now? And I'm gonna compare the muggers in the apartment was like a flea flicker.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Where I wasn't really aware of how intense this was gonna be. And the one guy walks in with the paint can and the first thing he does is he just spray paints a line over a painting on the wall. And I'm like, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he vandalism.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And that's like Jared Goff handing it off to David Montgomery. I'm like, oh, it's a run. And then he goes to the other wall and it's a swastika. And you're like, oh, no, he's flipping it back to Jared Goff. And then it's a 50.

[Bill Simmons]

Sexual assault.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a good one.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Any. You don't ever want to see a swastika the second you see a swastika, you know?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Things are turning.

[Bill Simmons]

Brought to you by Loom.

[Zach Lowe]

Picky nits. The doctor just delivers the your wife didn't make it news abruptly.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, the entire movie is a nitpick, but the way that he's like, oh, your wife's dead, but his. His wife's okay.

[Zach Lowe]

The son in law first is like, your wife's going to make it. And. And, and breath.

[Bill Simmons]

But there's almost like this weird vibe to the doctor where it's like he's like, oh, yeah, your wife's gonna make it. You gotta see the Mets.

[Zach Lowe]

God.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know, like he's like the literal.

[Bill Simmons]

Doctor grinding out wins.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's like, oh, your wife's dead, but I'm sorry about that. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Did you see Saver through eight, eight two hit innings? Yeah, this. My wife made me pause the movie. And she was. And she was. We just couldn't believe how bad the doctor was. And her take was maybe there wasn't enough awareness on how doctors should talk to patients yet. And this was actually what it was.

[Bill Simmons]

It was more realistic.

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe it wasn't a bad acting choice.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I would think that in the 70s and I would just think that there would be more bedside manner, but I guess in a New York City hospital in the 1970s, that guy's probably seen some shit. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, no. Your wife. Your wife's dead. She fucking died already.

[Bill Simmons]

That was your wife yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Lowe]

She was dead when she came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's in the room dead. If you want to go.

[Bill Simmons]

Your wife's catatonic, but your wife.

[Zach Lowe]

Not painting your apartment within a day after the graffiti assault murder.

[Bill Simmons]

How about just put the place up for sale and be like, you know what? Burn the furniture, but stay in a hotel.

[Zach Lowe]

I had one more people in a restaurant watching a news conference with a police officer. Like, it's game seven of playoff series. They're all, like, just riveted by this. Like, really? We're supposed to believe that people aren't just eating and drinking in a restaurant?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I love when everybody stops. I mean, for, like, in jfk, it makes sense, but in this, it would be like, you really think a New York bar would grind to a halt to watch the police commissioner?

[Zach Lowe]

This happens in Rocky, too, when you're at the bar and, like, the creep.

[Bill Simmons]

Turn that up.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah. Like, did we really do that in the seventies? I don't know. That Interested in the news? Any other nitpicks?

[Bill Simmons]

No, not really. I mean, we said the one was. The big one was the doctor's bedside manner.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, we'll take a quick break, and then we'll finish the categories. Okay, before we answer the question, Sequel, prequel, prestige tv, all black cast or Untouchable? I should mention there were four sequels. Death Wish 2, Death Wish 3, 1985, Death Wish 4, the Crackdown, 87, and then for some reason, 94, Death Wish, the Face of Death. They just. Seven years pass. Bronson is now in his mid-70s, and they're like, we're running it back, but I think it speaks to how popular the sequels were on TV from a rewatchable standpoint.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's not that expensive to make. Bronson's like, I'll stand there and shoot. You guys can make whatever movie you want around me. He's probably not, like, the story's not working for me.

[Zach Lowe]

Let me. Let me get a rewrite of that script.

[Bill Simmons]

I would love to see a Prestige TV prequel called the Architect. Oh. About Paul's early days in New York City. It's basically Mad Men, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Got this lead on a New Mexico real estate.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's just, like, an architecture firm. And, like, he's got a great wife and daughter.

[Zach Lowe]

Can I talk you into the Apple TV Prestige TV Death Wish remake?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, now, Joan Hall.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, Gyllenhaal. Just. Episode one, something bad happens. Episode two, work trip goes to the range. Because the guy Loves the range. He's like, ah, that felt good.

[Bill Simmons]

And then maybe he goes to Utah, starts listening to some right wing podcasts. It's like, huh, these guys have some ideas I like.

[Zach Lowe]

And then the rest of the city.

[Bill Simmons]

He comes back to the architecture firms. Like, you guys heard Rogan. Yeah. We're apparently supposed to be hunting our own food. All the architects like, sure. Paul.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. I would. I would give Death Wish a chance. Yeah, apparently you wouldn't.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I would. I liked my. My idea too, but, like, yeah, we.

[Zach Lowe]

Could do both the same idea. Yeah, we'll combine them. Craig would watch Death Wish on Apple tv. Sure. Craig loves the studio.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He'd give anything a chance. Yeah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm?

[Bill Simmons]

God damn, Paul, you're kind of freaking me out. I'm speechless. I guess I'm gonna make sure you don't go away for a long time, big boy, but that orange paint. Starting to give me some questions.

[Zach Lowe]

I didn't think you're gonna break out Wade for this.

[Bill Simmons]

I would love to see Wayne as a choa in this. In this movie. You know, like Wayne hunting this guy. Be like, damn. You know, this guy's really taking care of some business out there.

[Zach Lowe]

He's making my job easier. I had two actually for this. I think Nell should be in the park in one of the scenes, just gonna.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Lowe]

We just see her once. And then the subway platform when he shoots the two guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Uhhuh.

[Zach Lowe]

Ryan, Ruko, Cursey, bang and big again. Got it. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Herbie Hancock. Yeah, I don't have any unanswerable questions.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a pretty straightforward film.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I. I think my only unanswerable question would be would the commissioner, district attorney, and cop all agree to suppress, like, his arrest?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, well, I actually. All right, I guess I do have it on there. So. So he's got a transfer, right? So he's got to talk to work. Maybe you make up some story about. Yeah, you know, but he's still in the hospital with a gunshot wound, so he's got to tell work something, right? Not going to be in this week. What happened? Appendectomy. Like you come up with. I guess you could get through that. Then it's like, you know what? I really need to be transferred. And now I have a Limp. They're like, okay, how about Chicago? And they just kind of. That's it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Just seamlessly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It would have been. I honestly think it would have worked if he had been like, I got mugged. I can't live in the city anymore.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a good idea.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But the, the big question I have is with the New York City police and the media, and this is now like a circus. Did they get them? They not get him and then the killings stop. Are they still covering it? Like, well, you know how it is.

[Bill Simmons]

Like after a week, they get bored and move on to something else.

[Zach Lowe]

What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? I have the gun with the case that says Tupac.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Put that in the, in the office.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a lot of really cursed items in this film. Yeah. It's tough to be like, what a cool coat.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, like, maybe the People magazine.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I would like to show a People magazine Coach Finock award.

[Zach Lowe]

Best life lessons. Bring your groceries home if you live two blocks away.

[Bill Simmons]

Or I think the, the big part in the beginning of the film when they're like, you know, is it time to cut and run from New York City? It's like, if you're feeling that way, maybe you should do it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, that's a lesson. Best double feature choice, Falling down.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I. I had the warriors just to like put a fantastical cap on. On the 70s New York experience, because this is essentially the Jeff Goldblum movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's like the flip side of it.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a good choice. I agree with you. Who won the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Charlie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. All right, Craig, I know you probably didn't like this one.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No. Yeah, this probably won't make the top five list at the end of the year.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you see what I was talking about with like Jack Lemmon and Sidney Lamette, like the bones of like a weirder movie in this.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I didn't. It was as I was driving in today, I thought, I actually think this movie had the potential to be something really great. Yeah, I kind of just thought it was miscast and stale and very two dimensional. And I thought the brutality of it was not redeemed by the story. It just felt like half assed to me.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what? It's not dissimilar from Rocky in the sense that it's a movie that's franchise has kind of defined the original film. Now unintentionally, Rocky is such a small, all urban drama and it's about Human relationships. And then there's a fight at the end and then Rocky. All the subsequent sequels are like, it's about boxing and this guy's boxing career. Death Wish was about, you know, like you said, like, you're like, holy. The first hour of this movie is really disturbing. And then like it becomes about vigilantes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. And then it just becomes a franchise.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's interesting that you. We would almost think about Death Wish in relationship to the sequels. You know, I do been on the.

[Zach Lowe]

List for a couple years.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I do think there's a tweak to this movie that could work now where the complicated message around what this movie's trying to say, romanticism versus criticizing violence, the Luigi Mangioni thing. There is like a rich person wealth tweak that you could make to this where it's like the killing of these CEO types. The United Healthcare CEO thing.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not loving that. No.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that's an interesting twist.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know what I mean?

[Zach Lowe]

Season two.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

In the Apple show. Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's the complicated, like, how do we feel about whether, you know, these people at this level? And vigilantism in the corporate world.

[Bill Simmons]

That's true. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I think. And we're doing a couple more 70s movies this month. But in general, the 70s is so interesting because they had all these great ideas for movies and some of them didn't land the plane and some did. But then all of them existed in the cable universe for the next 30 years. Like this one. This is a really flawed movie that I probably have seen 20 times.

[Bill Simmons]

You think about how different the film going experience must have been for people at that time period compared to what we get now, where 90% of what we see is so affirming at the end. Like we are made to feel good about what we just watched.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is almost the complete opposite of that. Where people seemingly were going to the movies to feel bad or to feel like their anger was being shown on screen or their depression or their anxiety was being shown on screen. It's kind of amazing time to talk. I mean, I love. This is one of my favorite decades.

[Zach Lowe]

So, Craig Horrobeck, thank you. Kahow and Jack, thank you as well.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And Ronick, thank you to Ronic.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, and Ronick, thank you as well. Ringer movies, YouTube channel.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

All these are on video. And we'll have two more 70s movies.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Death Wish 2 next week to be.

[Zach Lowe]

Are there three ones left in May or two? What's today's date?

[Craig Horlbeck]

We have one, two. Just two more after this thank God.

[Zach Lowe]

1926.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a lot of campaigning going on behind the scenes for which these 70s films should be.

[Zach Lowe]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, by me.

[Zach Lowe]

We had to do this.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Should we do a poll?

[Zach Lowe]

That's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

It's good. We did it.

[Zach Lowe]

No, we have Close Encounters as possible. Heaven Can Wait. Apocalypse needs too much research. Rollerball is in there. What was the other one we had?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I asked for Marathon Man.

[Zach Lowe]

Marathon Man.

[Bill Simmons]

And you know what? You kind of teased once, and I don't know how serious you were. It was all that jazz.

[Zach Lowe]

I. I thought that was one of the ones that's not available, though.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not available on dvd. I don't know if it's streaming. You're right.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. All right, well, we'll come back next week with one more segment.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We've never done Chinatown, have we?

[Bill Simmons]

We have not.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a R. That movie's kind of a rough hang now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Don't you think? Not that this movie was a walk in the park.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I mean, like, I think it's more like the stories of around it. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Sierra, thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Good to see you. Good to see you, too.