‘Die Hard With a Vengeance’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Summary

The Rewatchables: ‘Die Hard With a Vengeance’ Episode Summary

Released on June 24, 2025

Hosts:

• Bill Simmons
• Chris Ryan
• Van Lathan

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan delve into the iconic action film "Die Hard with a Vengeance". The hosts explore the movie’s enduring appeal, character dynamics, memorable scenes, and its place within the broader landscape of 1990s action cinema.

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John McClane: A Fallen Hero

The discussion opens with an analysis of John McClane’s character arc in this installment of the Die Hard series. Bill Simmons reflects on McClane's personal struggles, highlighting his status as "divorced, alcoholic, and jobless after getting fired for his reckless behavior and bad attitude" (03:15). The hosts ponder how such a character would navigate real-life consequences, contrasting it with his near-superhuman feats in the film.

Notable Quote:

Bill Simmons (03:15): "Detective John McClane, parentheses Bruce Willis, is now divorced, alcoholic and jobless after getting fired for his reckless behavior and bad attitude."

Van Lathan equates McClane’s exaggerated heroism to real-life expectations, questioning, “How is this guy not at least Captain Sully at this point?” (04:49).

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Sam Jackson’s Impact and Transformation

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Sam Jackson's role as Zeus Carver, McClane’s reluctant partner. The hosts discuss how Jackson’s character adds depth and a fresh dynamic to the film.

Notable Quote:

Chris Ryan (05:24): "He probably has a show on [Fox News]. He's their law enforcement guy."

The trio explores Jackson’s versatility and his ability to elevate the movie, noting his seamless integration alongside Bruce Willis. They compare his role to other ensemble casts and highlight his lasting influence in cinema.

Notable Quote:

Van Lathan (12:20): "But the crucial movie for Die Hard with a vengeance is Pulp Fiction."

They connect Jackson’s performance to his broader career trajectory, emphasizing how his role in this film solidified his status as a cultural icon.

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Memorable Action Sequences

The hosts break down several of the movie’s most rewatchable scenes, praising their execution and impact.

1. The Opening Explosion:

   • Bill Simmons (32:05): "It just checks all the boxes. The first 80 minutes is unassailable."
   • The rapid-fire action sequences set the tone, making the film irresistibly engaging from the start.

2. The Central Park Chase:

   • Van Lathan (5:08): "This is one of the best action movies ever made. One of the best New York movies ever made."
   • The hosts laud the authenticity and pacing, highlighting how New York City itself becomes a key character in the film.

3. The Elevator Showdown:

   • Bill Simmons (33:44): "It’s like, what the... we've started."
   • The tension and choreography of the elevator scene are noted as standout moments that showcase McClane’s resilience.

4. The Subway Train Bombing:

   • Chris Ryan (46:28): "I feel like that's one of those... it's like the first time... it's gripping."
   • The intricate plotting and high stakes of the train bomb sequence are commended for their suspense and execution.

Notable Quote:

Van Lathan (53:00): "He really tested Holly over the years."

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Character Dynamics and Development

Exploring the relationship between McClane and Zeus, the hosts discuss how their partnership evolves throughout the film.

Notable Quote:

Chris Ryan (41:05): "Have we gotten away from the trope of you losing your badge, but your superior keeps it in his desk drawer?"

They critique the portrayal of authority figures and the personal struggles of the protagonists, questioning the believability of certain plot devices and character motivations.

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Cultural and Temporal Context

The episode examines how "Die Hard with a Vengeance" fits into the 1990s action genre, comparing it to contemporaries like "Pulp Fiction," "Speed," and "Under Siege."

Notable Quote:

Bill Simmons (12:10): "This is kind of the last movie, I gotta say."

The hosts reflect on the film’s timing, release amidst significant cultural events like the Rodney King trial, and its impact on shaping action movie tropes.

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What Aged Well vs. What Didn’t

The trio assesses elements of the movie that have stood the test of time versus aspects that seem outdated today.

Aging Positives:

• Authentic New York Representation: The detailed depiction of NYC’s grid system and landmarks remains impressive.
• Character Complexity: McClane’s flawed hero persona adds depth, making him relatable despite his over-the-top actions.

Aging Negatives:

• Plot Implausibilities: Elements like the precise execution of tasks and unrealistic action stunts feel stretched to sustain the narrative.
• Cultural Stereotypes: Certain racial and regional portrayals have not aged as gracefully, reflecting the era’s societal norms.

Notable Quote:

Van Lathan (85:43): "Simon nailing it as a what stage? The best."

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Rewatchable Scenes and Awards

The hosts award various scenes and elements, highlighting their favorites and pointing out the movie’s strengths.

Most Rewatchable Scene:

• The Phone Game and Central Park Chase:
  • Bill Simmons (32:42): "Bomb within 90 seconds and we're off."

Best Use of Food and Drink:

• Aspirin Bottle Hack:
  • Van Lathan (70:47): "Here, the bomb meets the aspirin."

Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Visuals:

• Jeremy Irons as Simon Gruber:
  • Chris Ryan (54:00): "I love that scene."

Weakest Link of the Film:

• The Final Act’s Contrivances:
  • Van Lathan (75:44): "The finale feels like they were trying to figure out how to end the movie."

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Alternative Casting and What-Ifs

In a lighthearted segment, Bill Simmons introduces the "Recasting Couch," proposing how different actors could have transformed the film.

Notable Quote:

Bill Simmons (78:07): "What do you have for casting Couch. A twist that would have made this movie better."

The hosts playfully imagine actors like Daniel Day-Lewis or Sean Connery in pivotal roles, exploring how these changes could have altered the movie's dynamics and reception.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a consensus that "Die Hard with a Vengeance" remains a beloved entry in the Die Hard franchise. Despite its flaws, the film’s high-octane action, memorable characters, and cultural significance secure its status as a rewatchable classic.

Final Quote:

Van Lathan (130:43): "I think he's the nugget. If you're making a movie, it's like, can we get Hanks? Can we get Bruce? Can we get Cruz?"

The hosts express enthusiasm for revisiting the film, emphasizing its importance in shaping modern action cinema and celebrating its lasting impact on audiences.

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Key Takeaways

• Character Depth: John McClane’s personal struggles add a relatable layer to his heroic actions.
• Dynamic Partnerships: Sam Jackson’s Zeus Carver brings fresh energy and complexity to the film.
• Memorable Action: Iconic scenes like the Central Park chase and elevator showdown enhance the movie’s rewatchability.
• Cultural Impact: Positioned within the 1990s action genre, the film reflects and influences its era’s cinematic trends.
• Aging Elements: While many aspects remain compelling, certain plot points and stereotypes highlight the period’s societal norms.

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Relevant Quotes with Timestamps

1. Character Introduction:

   Bill Simmons (03:15): "Detective John McClane, parentheses Bruce Willis, is now divorced, alcoholic and jobless after getting fired for his reckless behavior and bad attitude."

2. Recognition of Sam Jackson:

   Van Lathan (12:20): "But the crucial movie for Die Hard with a vengeance is Pulp Fiction."

3. Action Sequence Praise:

   Van Lathan (46:28): "And the film crew was like, I'm really glad no one died. When we speed was like that too."

4. Iconic Scene Analysis:

   Chris Ryan (54:00): "I love it when Bruce Willis is portrayed as the everyman cop who looks like shit, but rises to the occasion."

5. Closing Thoughts:

   Van Lathan (130:43): "I think he's the nugget. If you're making a movie, it's like, can we get Hanks? Can we get Bruce? Can we get Cruz?"

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Final Remarks

The Rewatchables episode on "Die Hard with a Vengeance" offers an in-depth, engaging exploration of a seminal action film. Through insightful analysis and lively discussion, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan highlight why this movie continues to captivate audiences and stands as a testament to 1990s action cinema.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by new Pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste. One thing we all try to do to stay healthy is to keep up a routine. Things like daily yoga or trying to maintain a healthy diet. So how about making oral health part of your day? Brush your teeth twice daily with Pronamel Clinical Enamel strength for three times stronger enamel protection. And to help protect teeth for life, try new pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength toothpaste. Right now. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can find Chris Ryan on the watch sometimes on the big picture. On about 12 other Ringer podcasts, including Higher Learning, it happened you somehow got invited at higher Learning before me on very special best episode of the year for sure. Did Rachel know who Chris Ryan was?

[Chris Ryan]

Rachel wasn't there. She didn't know who he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Does Rachel know who Chris Ryan is?

[Van Lathan]

She doesn't.

[Chris Ryan]

No, she doesn't. Well, she will know on Monday as we crown the face of the ringer.

[Bill Simmons]

Monday, Face of the ringer's happening.

[Chris Ryan]

The face of the ringer argument. Chris Ryan was a part of it. You're one of the four finalists.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Congratulations. That's great.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. For what it's worth, I said you're the face of the ringer.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, thanks, Chris.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You got just 10% more Boston.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm on face the Ringer, am I?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You could also hear Van on the ringerverse, Ringiverse on the Midnight Boys debut, and sometimes here. My name is Bill Simmons and it is still New York month. Very few New York movies. More New York than Die Hard with the Vengeance. And that's what we're covering next.

[Chris Ryan]

John McClane, NYPD on a good day. He's a great cop. You don't like me because I'm white.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like you because you're gonna get me kill.

[Chris Ryan]

On a bad day.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the best there is.

[Chris Ryan]

On May 19th, McLean is back.

[Bill Simmons]

You got a triple A card.

[Chris Ryan]

Bruce Willis. Die Hard this Time with a vengeance. Rated R.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode of the Rewatchables is presented to you by Amazon Prime. Prime is more than just fast delivery. It's also where you can dive deep into your favorite movie genres with prime video and get what you need fast to fuel your obsession. You also, if you. If you watch a movie on Amazon prime, you can click down and see the actors in each scene for a lot of the movies, which is great snacks for movie night. A new book on film theory. It's all there too, on Amazon Prime. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. I'm just gonna read the Wikipedia description of this movie that, like the Grok thing they tells you like the AI spits it out.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Detective John McClane, parentheses Bruce Willis, is now divorced, alcoholic and jobless after getting fired for his reckless behavior and bad attitude. That's the first sentence. Reckless, divorced, and an alcoholic and no job injected into my veins.

[Van Lathan]

The quadruple crown.

[Bill Simmons]

When has it ever not worked? In real life, it's like, hey, having the birthday party. John McLean's coming over. Don't let him Dr. Drive. In a movie, he can just defuse a terrorist attack and it's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. In real life, John's getting drunk at the birthday party, whipping out his nine millimeter. Like, look at it. Boom, boom, boom. But in the movie, it's perfect.

[Van Lathan]

Has John Mlan ever come to a birthday party? Not covered in grease and blood, wearing a tank top?

[Bill Simmons]

In real life, John McLean is hanging out with the guy who was killed that led to the Karen Reed trial.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, and he's.

[Bill Simmons]

He's on the third floor.

[Van Lathan]

Wait a second. It is literally 110 seconds.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, no. Jab. McQuaid's here. Oh, he's getting into it with John O' Keefe.

[Van Lathan]

He's texting his buddies, being like, make sure you plant the evidence.

[Bill Simmons]

How long does it take a body to freeze? Anyway, John McClane in movies, it's fine. Yeah. His life really fell apart. Here's my first question. Let's start here before we get into the movie. So John McClane saves the Nakatomi building, prevents an incredible terrorist attack, and then doubles down and saves everybody in the airport in Chicago.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How is this guy not at least Captain Sully at this point?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, this is.

[Bill Simmons]

What else did he have to do?

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that this is one of the greatest testaments to the power of the Internet to create celebrities out of. Out of nothing? I mean, I. To be fair, this guy would have a documentary made about him in 2000 or one, certainly. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What. Yeah. What is his in real life? If you do those two things, what do your next 30 years look like? I feel like you have a ton. Like you're at least. What was that guy? John Walsh, the America's Most Wanted guy. You're at least hosting a show like that, just getting massive paychecks. Do you Have a morning talk show.

[Chris Ryan]

You probably do. You know, Fox News is starting to bubble at that time. He's probably got a show on there. He's their law enforcement guy. But you have to remember.

[Van Lathan]

He'S smoking on Fox News.

[Chris Ryan]

Him and Bill O'Reilly were bringing. But you have to remember also, this was the era of. Remember, Eddie Murphy left Axel Foley left Detroit and went and basically solved two gigantic capers, right? But he was outcast, right? So maybe they look at John McClain as somebody who went against the grain too much by saving people's lives in Los Angeles. He shouldn't have been done. He was out of his jurisdiction.

[Bill Simmons]

You saved us too much money and too many lives.

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Isn't this actually. We could really map this out. All of the sequels find our favorite characters in a place in their lives. You'd never guess, like, how is Pete Mitchell not at least Chuck Yeager by Top Gun Maverick? Instead he's like, I'm fixing old planes. No, you would be probably like, he would be on the COVID of a Wheaties box.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What have.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, Val Kilmer would have happened to him with Iceman. Should have at least happened with Maverick.

[Chris Ryan]

That is, I guess, why our protagonists are our protagonists.

[Van Lathan]

Because they're complicated, right?

[Chris Ryan]

They're complicated and flawed in a way that keep them in the bubble that we need them to be in to make the movies work.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Counter Captain Sully, random pilot lands the plane in the water. That's it. They make a Tom Hanks movie about him. Like, that's one of the things with these movies. Nobody makes a movie about John McClane.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That actually would have been a better Die Hard 3 is them making the John McClane movie about Die Hard 1. And then there's a terrorist lie.

[Van Lathan]

I'll take it a step further. Why can't Holly move back from Los Angeles?

[Chris Ryan]

Excuse me.

[Van Lathan]

Has this guy not been through enough that.

[Chris Ryan]

That's one of my picking knits. I will say something about Sully, though, is that actually happened in real life. So he actually saved like actual, like 200 people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So John McClane is a fictional character.

[Bill Simmons]

So noted.

[Chris Ryan]

So Sully's celebrity actually comes from.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is what happens in real life. If somebody does something like that, they should have. John McLean's at least doing $75,000 speaking gigs all over the world about the. The two times he saved the world.

[Van Lathan]

If this was a contemporary story, what would happen is John McLean would do this. We would all get like, God damn, this is really what we need for America. Right now. And then somebody would discover his weird Facebook posts from 2021 where he's like, I'm not wearing a mask. And we'd be like, no, John McLean's not allowed to even be a security guard.

[Chris Ryan]

Inward tapes. But Zeus is one of my best friends.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

You know?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So if this. So after you save Chicago, it turns out there's some frat photo of him in 1978. That's not good. And then that kind of.

[Van Lathan]

Dressed as Richard Breyer. Dressed as bad as what you're trying to say.

[Bill Simmons]

I just. My biggest pet peeve with all these movies we love is that, especially with the sequels, that they just discount how amazing it would be for somebody to have pulled off the feat they did.

[Chris Ryan]

Isn't there also a chance that John. This is the only time that John is competent. Because when we first see Jon, he can't even get his shit together. He's got. But then as soon as the adventure is on, he's like, really? Jason Bourne in this movie? In this movie, he's one. I mean, obviously the original Die Hard as well. He's one step ahead of them at all time. He's making evaluations. When Zeus has. Jon is like, oh, real quick. Boom, boom. Mix the thing, Blow the thing up. He is really.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got jokes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But the best part about Bruce Willis is he still gets scared.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The best part about Bruce Willis is, like, when he's getting out of that police van in the beginning in Harlem, he's like, don't worry, I'll be dead in four minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Like, he's like, I'm still, like, sweating out beer, and I need a cigarette and I need aspirin, and I'm. I'm. I know I'm going to die. Like, this kind of character needs to have almost nothing to lose to do the things that they do.

[Chris Ryan]

Or. One of my favorite small parts of the movie is when they get to the park and the bomb's there. And he goes, yeah, there's a bomb there. Why don't you go ahead and grab it, sister Seuss? Why don't you go ahead and grab the bomb? Seuss goes, why would I grab it? He goes, yo, Simon says you're supposed to be helping out. He told you to help me go grab the bomb. It's funny. He doesn't want to grab it. It's funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you see this in the theater?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I saw it in the theater this weekend, actually, but I saw it in the theater when it came out. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I Remember my excitement level was a 10 out of 10. And I remember being slightly disappointed by the last like half hour. Sure, it helps the being like first hour. Great. Fell apart near the end. Still had a good time. Not as good as Die Hard. And then I think over the next 30 years, the first 75, 80 minutes is so rewatchable. It just kind of took another life.

[Van Lathan]

I. I think like, literally, like up through the school evacuation. It's like one of the best blockbusters ever made.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's one of the best action movies ever made. One of the best New York movies ever made. One of the best summer movies ever made.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It just checks all the boxes. The first 80 minutes is unassailable. And like so many other great ones, it can't sustain it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And we'll go into some of the alternate ending and, and stuff like that, but holy, I love that it just starts. We're just going to. Yeah, we have an explosion within 90 seconds and we're. And we're off. And they don't spend a lot of time with McClane. It's just clear he's a complete fuck up and his life is falling apart. And then we're off. Let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Premise heavy, like this guy is fucking with McClain. We don't know why, but that doesn't matter because McClane is in imminent danger in every single scene. He has to find his way out of it. And the story kind of orients itself around that. I went to see it in the theater, but I remember not being as excited because I was kind of getting off the old action star guys. I think after the last action hero.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the tail end of that era.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And so I remember going to see the movie and being like, oh my God. But that was much, much better than I expected it to be. It had the same kinetic energy of the first film. But you know, Eraser and other movies like that. Maybe Eraser is a year after this or maybe it's the same.

[Bill Simmons]

It is. No, it's. True Lies was right before. Yes, well, True Lies was Cliffhanger was right before this. We had like the, the action guys from the 80s and early 90s. Had like one last run here through 95 and then 96 that starts to flip. We get Daylight with Stallone, we get a racer, Van Damme kind of falls apart. Who else? Arnold pretty much done. And then Stallone after Daylight, then he gains the weight for Cop Land. So it's just. This is kind of the last movie, I gotta say.

[Van Lathan]

I was. I was actually where you were probably like, you know. And then second, Die Hard is done by Rennie Harlan. And it's like, it's really, really good. We've. And if you watch it over and over again, it's fun. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We did the rewatchables. It's discounted.

[Van Lathan]

But the crucial movie for Die Hard with a vengeance is Pulp Fiction.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because when you find out Sam Jackson's gonna be in this movie, and you find out Bruce Willis is going to be in this movie, and then you see the trailer and you watch it and you're like, oh, it's this kind of movie. And it's funny and it's referential and it's like fast paced. But it's like, it feels the most real of all the Die Hards because of the way that people interact.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a crucial point. The Sam Jackson is the crucial part of this movie because he's bouncing around for years and years. Pulp happens, and then within a year, he's in this movie. And that was the appeal for me in 1995 with one. One of my worst years. Be like, Bruce, one of your worst years. Not a lot going on.

[Chris Ryan]

Say more.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just like, you know, tending bar.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

Just trying. Trying to get washy. No, trying to get going. This is my last year at that. Last year at the Herald. Trying to think like, maybe this sports writing thing's not going to work out. We talked about Celtics.

[Van Lathan]

Like, what was.

[Bill Simmons]

Celts are. Reggie Lewis is dead. Celts are a mess.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Red Sox are a mess. Trot.

[Van Lathan]

And Troy.

[Bill Simmons]

Boston became Loserville.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was like Bruce Willis and Sam Jackson. This would be fun on a Friday.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Could have hit hard right there. Let. I let it go. Boston Loserville thing. I could have hit you.

[Bill Simmons]

It was bad. The 90s were bad.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then it turned. Sam Jackson has this run from Pulp where he just is in like five movies a year. But some of those movies were Die Hard 3. Time to kill. Yes. They deserve to die.

[Van Lathan]

I hope the bird in hell.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Bill Long kiss good night.

[Chris Ryan]

Juneteenth was yesterday.

[Bill Simmons]

Jackie Brown, Star wars remake. All of a sudden he's like a. Not a remake, but yeah, whatever. Prequel. What was it?

[Chris Ryan]

Keep doing the thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's just. That was it. All of a sudden, he was an A plus lister. And it made perfect sense that he was right next to Bruce Willis in what basically is Lethal Weapon. We got to at least address that. This is basically Lethal Weapon. This movie, this script.

[Van Lathan]

Was acquired to be a lethal weapon.

[Bill Simmons]

It was supposed to be Lethal Weapon 4. It somehow went and turned around. 20th Century Fox bought it. It became this movie. But you could easily have seen Gibson and Glover in this.

[Van Lathan]

I think I could. But I'm glad that it's this. And I. I would put these guys up against those guys.

[Chris Ryan]

On Sam Jackson. Has anyone taken advantage and rolled the kinetic energy into the beginning of a career. Not the beginning of a career, into the renaissance of a career like him. He was able to balance taking parts where he was with more established actors like Bruce Willis.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Really weighty secondary roles with new stars like Matthew McConaughey. Properties like Star Wars. He seemingly had a complete vision of how he wanted to start his golden era. And it really. What kind of solidified him for the next, like, 30 or 40. Like, every single movie was something interesting and had some kind of quality.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Maybe it's because it didn't happen early for him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So he just, like, knew when the window opened. I'm jumping through it.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

So. And I know exactly how to do this now.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the toughest one for the rewatchables actor rankings because I think this is, like, his 10th Rewatchables.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, six of them. He's barely in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Right. Like Goodfellas. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, he's. Not only is he in Goodfellas, he's in Coming to America as Hold Up Man. He's in do the Right Thing. We did that one. He's in Sea of Love in 1989 as Black Guy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you look at some of his. That's what he's credited as black guy. You go through his things. Magic Sticks.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that what you credit me as? Is that what I. Is that what I am?

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, in Magic Sticks, he plays bum. You go, like. It's just. But anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

But seriously, though, by the time Pulp Fiction comes, it kind of. And this doesn't happen as much as it used to, at least not for me. By the time Pulp Fiction comes, you go, oh, okay, it's time for him now. But by the time that. Because I had seen it.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was improbable, though. This is like an NBA player at age 30 becoming a star.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not saying that it wasn't improbable, but I had seen him. You leave, like, Jungle Fever, he was in almost everything that Spike had done.

[Bill Simmons]

Exercise, Exorcist 3, he plays Dream Blind Man. But, yeah, Jungle Fever, he's actually quite.

[Van Lathan]

Good in Exorcist 3. It's brief part.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Dream.

[Bill Simmons]

But Jungle Fever is when I think he goes on the radar in 91, where people are like, oh, this guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Death by Temptation. One of my favorite. Horrible. He's just. He's in all of these films.

[Bill Simmons]

Juice.

[Chris Ryan]

Juice. 91 scene in juice.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe he's in patriots game in 92.

[Van Lathan]

When's fresh?

[Chris Ryan]

A little bit later. So that's like 95, 94, 95, maybe even 96.

[Bill Simmons]

Then in 93, menace to society, Jurassic park, true romance. Fresh in 94.

[Van Lathan]

94.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's the Pulp Fiction. But he's been in like nine or ten rewatchables movies.

[Van Lathan]

I can't remember whether Fresh came out before or after Pulp Fiction, but I remember being blown away by him and Fresh.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So it's so. And you know, everyone knows the story. He had a lot of issues, a lot of drug stuff and then cleaned up and by the 90s and then all of a sudden he's. I mean, I can't even imagine how much money he's made. Yeah, he's been in so many. He's been in 30 plus years of movies. Constantly. A lot of big blockbusters. He's always figured out a way to get an Iron man or a Star wars in there. Plus he's been the lead in stuff.

[Van Lathan]

He was, he was in like every Marvel movie for 10 years. Yeah, right.

[Chris Ryan]

The Through Line.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's. It's a little like how Snoop Dogg just kept going and going and seems like he's as relevant in 2025. I still feel like Sam Jackson's as relevant now.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he's become more than an actor. He's become a cultural figure.

[Bill Simmons]

Total like. Like Snoop.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Snoop.

[Bill Simmons]

Same thing. Whereas, like, you've seen a lot of these actors. I think it's really hard to keep that going for more than 15 years. You know, like even you watch somebody like Cruise who eventually couldn't keep it going, and then it's just like, I guess I'm just Mission Impossible, Top Gun guy and that's it.

[Van Lathan]

Well, the thing that I've always loved about Jackson is that he seems to operate under the idea of like, I want to make movies that I would want to go see. And so, so many actors probably are like, I want to make a movie to win an award or I want to make a movie because it's specifically going to make me a lot of money. But he just is like, I like shark movies. Yeah, I'm going to be in Deep Blue Speed. I like, I like this kind of movie. I like that kind of movie. And he makes him a lot. He's prolific. He doesn't take a lot of time off. And, you know, and part of it.

[Chris Ryan]

Is not shouldering the load of having all of these movies riding on your back.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

When that happens, that means a flop or a movie that's not critically well received doesn't ding you as much as it does somebody else. So you get to move on.

[Bill Simmons]

Good point. His losses just kind of come.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You get to do cool stuff. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Because they're not these. It's not like, oh, my God, I didn't like Days of Thunder. Is Tom Cruise over?

[Bill Simmons]

You know, the big thing with him? I think he had a little more trouble carrying a movie. But if he was part of the movie, almost like a basketball player. Like, if I can just be on the right team, I'm awesome. And he's figured out a way, like, he can be like, kind of the. Kind of the cool, collected brain Sam Jackson character, or he could be like the bombastic character or the character like Zeus, which I probably think is what a top three, top four Sam Jackson character. Like, for. Just for pure. Like, Jules is number one.

[Chris Ryan]

Jules is number one.

[Bill Simmons]

I really enjoyed Deep Blue Sea. Sam Jackson. We still haven't done that in Rewatch. Was. But I think he's great in that movie.

[Van Lathan]

I'd probably say. Or Dell from. From Jackie Brown is up there.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, fuck, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Fresh.

[Chris Ryan]

Fresh is up there.

[Bill Simmons]

Just.

[Chris Ryan]

I love Fresh. Came out around the same time that Searching for Bobby Fischer came out. So I was going through a chess thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And to see the two different was really cool. Trying to think who else. So Ordell is definitely up there. Or Dell. For me, Jules is the number one. But Odell is very close to Jules. I love that character. I actually love that movie way up there. I'm trying to think of what else Nick is. For me.

[Bill Simmons]

There's an amazing sliding doors that we covered when Tarantino was on. What was that? The King of New York.

[Van Lathan]

It's the King of New York. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

With Sam Jackson and Laurence Fishburne, where.

[Van Lathan]

This is actually, like, for all the sliding doors.

[Bill Simmons]

Unbelievable. It's the best one.

[Van Lathan]

This is the Sliding Doors.

[Bill Simmons]

And we didn't. I didn't know it when he told the story. Laurence Fishburne, he's trying to get him for Pulp Fiction. Wrote the role for him. Please do it, please do it, please do it. And Fishburne's agents go.

[Chris Ryan]

He Wants leads.

[Van Lathan]

It's a smaller part.

[Chris Ryan]

He wants leads.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a smaller part. You have to be a lead. So he turns it down, which, by.

[Chris Ryan]

The way, those people are fucking morons. There's no lead in fucking Pulp Fiction. You could argue that Travolta is the lead, but there's no lead in the movie. The movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's an ensemble movie.

[Chris Ryan]

It's an ensemble movie that has a weird circular narrative.

[Bill Simmons]

They had a plan for him, all right? They just were like, you can't be in ensembles anymore. You have to be a lead in the movie. So I think he did Deep Cover with Ellen Barkham instead, which is also awesome. So Sam. So Sam gets Jules. Now Fishburne is negotiating for Die hard, Die Hard 3. And they want him. They basically agreed that he's going to do it, and he wants a lot of money. And they're arguing. They're going back and forth. They can't agree in the money. Well, the producer, Andrew Vajna. Yeah, unfortunate name, Andrew Vajna, he goes to Cannes because Bruce Willis is about to make Die Hard 3 with him, and he goes to Cannes to support Pulp Fiction. Sees Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction.

[Van Lathan]

He's like, what am I doing with Laurence Fishburne?

[Bill Simmons]

And he's like, fuck, Laurence Fishburne locks down Sam. Now Fishburne's out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So he loses Pulp Fiction and Die Hard 3. Sam flips, spots with him, and becomes Sam Jackson.

[Van Lathan]

And this is the biggest movie of 95, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. If you throw in the global stuff and then Fishburne sues. And they actually had to pay Fishburne 750k because they had a verbal agreement.

[Chris Ryan]

Verbal agreement. I saw that when I was doing some research, which that is actually pretty awesome. And then they also had to option a script that he wrote, but he.

[Bill Simmons]

Ends up in the Matrix. So it all, I guess, belatedly works out, but holy. But in a supporting part in the same way.

[Van Lathan]

Whole point, like, yeah, he's in the Matrix and it's cool, but he's in a. He's basically like, this white man is Jesus for the entire Pulp Fiction.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. By the way, that's 99.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's four years later.

[Chris Ryan]

And there. And there was a. Between 95 and 99. I mean, Lawrence was working, but there's, like, Fled and there's other movies like that. You could argue that this. That he was a. A. A tad cold. Not. He wasn't cold. He's Lawrence Fishburne. But you could argue that he was a tad cold. Until Morpheus kind of gets him back on the right track or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

You could argue the only other example in history of this Sam Jackson, Laurence Fishburne, alternate universe flip flop is Dominique Wilkins and James worthy in the 1982 first pick of the draft, where the Lakers take Worthy over Dominique Wilkins. And if they take Dominique Wilkins and he's with Magic Johnson on the Showtime Lakers doing all the stuff Dominique Wilkins would do anyway and all the above the rim stuff, he becomes the biggest star in the week. And instead he goes to Atlanta, has a great career as a Hall of Famer, some good battles.

[Van Lathan]

So, like, the Hawks are over, but.

[Bill Simmons]

He could have been on the Magic, on the Lakers with Magic, winning titles, posters, shoes, most famous person in the league, and it didn't happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Hoodlum was in 97, by the way.

[Van Lathan]

I like Hoodlum.

[Chris Ryan]

I like Hoodlum.

[Bill Simmons]

I lost Van with my Dominique Wilkinson. He just wasn't interested.

[Chris Ryan]

That was interesting. It was like, second Bruce Willis, a Bill thing, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Second Bruce Willis.

[Van Lathan]

This is. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You just weren't a neat guy.

[Chris Ryan]

He was. I like him. I like Nick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No, we just found out Bruce Willis. Two Die Hard movies makes a couple stinkers. Hey, what's going on with them? Let's do Die Hard 3, rips off Pulp Fiction, Die Hard 3, 12 Monkeys, Armageddon, Fifth Element, the Siege, Sixth Sense, and whole nine yards over the next seven years. It's a great job by him. And he's married to Demi Moore. Great job by him.

[Van Lathan]

I just want to throw one idea out here at you guys. So one thing that's worth noting for everybody, for the. For the listeners, is that, like, when they make this movie, Die Hard has become a genre unto itself.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Die Hard has created the Die Hard.

[Van Lathan]

I'll talk more about this later, but I just also want to. One of the things that really hit me when I was looking at, like, when this movie came out in 90s action movie context is that these guys not only had to top Die Hard 2 and Die Hard, but they had to top Under Siege and Speed and everything else that was like, around it, right? Like, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What were the other ones? Under Siege.

[Chris Ryan]

Under Siege, Speed.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, speed was the most recent one that was 94.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And that's like the Die Hard in.

[Bill Simmons]

A blank became one of the most influential.

[Van Lathan]

And Speed is the Die Hard cinematographer goes off and makes his own kind of movie. And it's. And it's crazy how good it is, but, like, they were able to cobble together a script that had been written for Other purposes. You know, rejigger it so that it's in the Die Hard world and then figure out that the one thing that these movies hadn't had before is a sidekick or a partner for McLean that was on his level. Like, Reginald Johnson's good. People are good in these movies. But, like, he's never had, like, a running mate through the entire.

[Bill Simmons]

But they also moved them around, too, in this movie, which they hadn't done in the. In the first two, he's just trapped in a spot. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, that changes the dynamic. Like, Reginald Vel Johnson was a guy. He's on the radio because he was stuck inside of Nakatomi Towers. This one, New York is a character in the film.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, there's so much about this. Like, when I was watching it, I had never been in New York before, but they're talking to me as if I had been, oh, my God, New York traffic is a part of it. The parks are a part.

[Van Lathan]

If you call, like, now, like, if. It'll be a different hospital that the ambulance goes to. So we need to wait till we get below 14th street or, you know, like, all that.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, how did you feel living in New York City with the New York City stuff in this movie?

[Van Lathan]

Because I didn't move to New York until five years later.

[Bill Simmons]

But you. You saw the city. You used all the parts of it. So when you watch this movie, it's incredible.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, the grid system that they adopt, you know, there's like, funny, like, how the fuck did you guys get up here or down there that fast? But, like, the fact that essentially the movie goes south. The entire chase down the island.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So ingenious, because you can kind of track them. Like, Harlem, 72nd Street.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They're at Wall street now. They got to go back up to Tompkins Square Park. Like, it's actually very, very. Like, you can visualize it really easily.

[Chris Ryan]

What does Wall street not have schools?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What do they have? A ton of banks. That was the first time I ever had that information. I didn't know what they had. I didn't know they might have been a Wall Street.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, I didn't know Wall street didn't have schools.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it could have been a Wall street elementary for all I know. I have no clue what's going on. But, like, all of that stuff is, like, part of the script.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty sure you can't get to Yankee Stadium that fast. I mean, there's a lot of nitpicks for this.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if you can get.

[Chris Ryan]

Fucking Bronx.

[Van Lathan]

We can get into that. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like. Yeah, I'm just gonna head down to Yankee Stadium. I'll see you guys in a second. Not sure that's how it goes. John McTiernan. What a run for him. And Christ from 87 and 99. He does Predator, Die Hard, Hunt for Red October. I've heard that's good. Is that a good one?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's in that?

[Van Lathan]

Sean Connery.

[Chris Ryan]

Alec Baldwin.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, okay. Medicine Man. Don't really remember that one. Last action.

[Chris Ryan]

Medicine Man. That's what. John Connery. Sean Connery. Where they're down in like, South America with Madeline Stone. He's got like the cure to cancer and he. Or something like that. That was actually like a good. That was a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Only saw it once.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Last action Hero, Die Hard with a Vengeance. And then an Amanda Dobbin's favorite, the Thomas Crown affair in 1999.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that movie, too.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the wheels come off. He does Rollerball remake. That sucks. And it sucks so bad. And that's it for John McTary.

[Van Lathan]

Well, he also gets caught up in the Anthony Palano stuff, right? Yeah, he was. He was basically in the world. He went to jail, I think. Yeah. For all the wiretapping stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

I know about the story, but I didn't know that it hit him. So. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Written by Jonathan Hensley.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who we're going to talk about later in a different category. $90 million budget made 366 million. 7th biggest movie of 1995. A great movie year.

[Chris Ryan]

So if you look at the top 10 films from that year, the fact that Die Hard With a Vengeance is the number one global moneymaker of that year is amazing. With some of the sequel stuff, some of the movies that it made more money than when I looked them up was incredibly impressive that that film was able to out gross some of these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Batman Forever.

[Chris Ryan]

Batman Forever. Like Batman.

[Bill Simmons]

Which one was that? Val Kilmer.

[Chris Ryan]

That's Val. Val Kilmer, Yeah. That's the first Joel Schumacher one. Toy Story. Apollo 13. Goldeneye. It's a bond movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Ace Ventura.

[Chris Ryan]

Ace Ventura.

[Bill Simmons]

Crimson Tide. This might be the most Chris ryan year ever. Seven.

[Van Lathan]

Seven. The fact that get shorty.

[Bill Simmons]

Dangerous minds.

[Chris Ryan]

Seven could make $327 million worldwide. If they make seven today, that's going on Netflix.

[Van Lathan]

Bad Boy Species. Clueless.

[Bill Simmons]

What are we doing? Why can't we have years like this anymore?

[Chris Ryan]

$327 million.

[Bill Simmons]

You go after the top 15 and we're looking at Outbreak. Bad Boys Species, Clueless, The Net, The American President. Fucking A. Disclosure. Higher learning.

[Van Lathan]

Honestly, I give Under Siege too. Dark territory. A spin every once in a while.

[Chris Ryan]

I like it. Morse Chestnut.

[Bill Simmons]

Under Siege too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

On a Train.

[Bill Simmons]

Classic.

[Van Lathan]

I know. I'm just saying.

[Chris Ryan]

Under Siege, Die Hard, On a Train.

[Bill Simmons]

Money Train, A movie that I feel like if it comes out in other years, maybe does better. But there's so many good movies. You don't love it.

[Van Lathan]

I like Money Train.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I like it for Tommy Boy.

[Van Lathan]

Heat, A little movie called Heat Casino.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

Money Train. Getting the band back together from White Men Can't Jump. And then that is JLo. That's the.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's her arrival.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the, that's the JLo 35 point game. Like, oh my God, this guy off the bench could score.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the 48 point LeBron Detroit game.

[Chris Ryan]

You like that? I tried to throw it back to do some NBA stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

JLo scored 25 points in a row against the Pistons. Roger Ebert, our guy, three stars, Fair. I feel like three stars is fair.

[Van Lathan]

If we're giving stars to Raj's reviews, I give this a two star review. I just feel like he took a couple miles per hour off the fastball. Maybe it was a hot.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't really check a lot of the Raj boxes. Yeah, he did say Die Hard with a Vengeance is basically a wind up action toy. Cleverly made, delivered with high energy. It delivers what it just advertises with the vengeance. But if the plot's just going to go sideways in the last 40% of a movie, Raj is not gonna sign off. Yeah, that's not gonna get. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

You guys still feel that way? Like when you watch the movie now, do you still feel like, I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Know why we go to Yankee Stadium and then from every moment on feels like they were just trying to figure out how to end the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I, I was gonna talk about this.

[Bill Simmons]

I still enjoy it. I mean, we, we have a lot of nitpicks. We'll. We'll save them. Okay, there's some nitpicks. We'll take a quick break and we'll do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed? That's happened to me. Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting. Have you done that? Cr?

[Van Lathan]

I have, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. Most rewatchable scene.

[Van Lathan]

This is one of the fun movies where I think every scene is in my. In my list.

[Bill Simmons]

You just wrote down all this up until.

[Van Lathan]

Up until the boat. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have starting opening scene right in Assignment says which also gets the Kid Cudi Pursuit Happiness Award.

[Van Lathan]

Best needle drop for somewhere in the city.

[Bill Simmons]

Hot time. Somewhere in the city.

[Chris Ryan]

Island looking so.

[Bill Simmons]

And just an awesome swerve where you're like, oh, this would be nice. Just shots in New York and.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The song. And then all of a sudden, Bonwick Towers explore exploding.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And you're like, what the. We've started.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Simon, we only hear the Jeremy Irons voice. Should have mentioned Jeremy Irons in the first segment.

[Chris Ryan]

Should have. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of that like. I'm not saying he's was ddl, but was for that era was.

[Van Lathan]

He was Oscar had the respect. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like. It was meaningful that he was in this movie. He was one of the best actors in the world.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And this. I mean, we were talking about Lawrence Olivier last time a Marathon Man. And the British actor phone coming in to play the villain in an American blockbuster that would like, started with Marathon Man. This is a great example of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And if you're gonna do Hans Gruber's brother as a character, it's Alan Rickman, the best villain ever in an action movie. Probably you're gonna have to bring in a real actor.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I do feel like that. These guys, when I see Jeremy Irons, I feel like he just went, you know what? I just want to be in a fucking movie in a tank top. I can fucking be.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna work out. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I can be the fucking heavy. I can be physical. I can be cool. I can be sexy. And when you see him in this movie, he's playing with different accents. He's taking it seriously.

[Van Lathan]

I can have violent sex with a chick with a throat scar.

[Chris Ryan]

She's got a sickle, you know, I could throw her on a desk.

[Bill Simmons]

It's interesting. So he wins the Oscar in 1990, right. For reversal Fortune. Klaus von Bulow, not a great hang.

[Chris Ryan]

Klaus killed his wife. Maybe while he got away with it, probably.

[Bill Simmons]

But you look at his IMDb and it's just all over the place. Like Dead Ringers was a really interesting movie, but for the most part was not a commercial actor. He was a damaged and Butterfly. He played the Lion King. He played Scar's voice. But for the most Part was kind of over here and then just kind of flies into.

[Van Lathan]

But this is what they did so well in the 90s, where they would just be like Malkovich. Now you're. Now you're a super villain in Con Air. You're the best. You know what I mean? Like Ed Harris. Come. Come play in the Rock.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, with that said, I don't think DDL at any point in his career does this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe. Maybe to his detriment.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

How about.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing. It would have been amazing if DDL was in a version of Die Hard 3.

[Van Lathan]

Daniel Day Lewis.

[Chris Ryan]

You think you're too good now. Did you guys hear. It's funny that you bring this up.

[Van Lathan]

First of all, DDL learns fluent German to play this part.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he goes so fucking deep, he might scar his own face.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, no, he. He's. Yeah, he learns how to drive the dump trucks himself. Yeah, he's going all in now.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you guys.

[Bill Simmons]

He learns how to make gold.

[Chris Ryan]

Flood.

[Van Lathan]

Gets flooded in an aqueduct. Just to know what he's doing.

[Chris Ryan]

Marvel wants ddl for what? Maybe to play Doom after.

[Bill Simmons]

Everyone has a price.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, well, he's working with his son, so he is out of retirement. He's going to be in his son's movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert Day Lewis. Johnny Day Lewis. What's the son's name?

[Van Lathan]

I think it's Sam, actually. I can't remember, though.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Van Lathan]

But he is back. Ish. I just don't know if he's going to do, like, a PTA movie, and I really, really hope he doesn't do Dr. Doom.

[Chris Ryan]

There's no chance that Marvel can get.

[Bill Simmons]

A Phantom Thread guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Phantom? Yeah, Phantom Thread. Yeah. Love Phantom Thread.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought you said. Are you a fan of.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean and I are going to do that on Rewatch at some point. You should. I saw it twice in the theater. I thought it was. I thought it was just, like, mesmerizing. Mesmerizing. How good he was in that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

The only thing I'd say about him is, on the DDL before we leave is his reputation as being the best actor in the world is so cemented and ironclad.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He might care enough not to fuck with it to ever give us a Simon Gruber or something where we just, like, watch him go wacky and cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Really? The history of all these guys is at some point they come back as they get older and like, ah, fuck it. Like, Olivier was like that all of a sudden. We talked about that at Marathon Man. He's just grabbing Gigs.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Hopkins is fucking Odin, right? You know, he's old.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. But Hopkins would, like, show up for a FedEx commercial at a certain point.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he would, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Next rewatchable scene. I have a lot on the Simon says gimmick, but it's for a later topic. John McQueen puts the sign on and we meet Sam Jackson.

[Chris Ryan]

What'd the sign say?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. You tell us, Van. By the way, this was really controversial in 1995.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Still, honestly, in the. So I saw this and it's kind of shocking Sunday, and there were a bunch of people who hadn't seen it before, and it was a lot of young people and there was a little bit of like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Like when we saw the Verdict and Newman.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Ramping. And you could the crowd like, gasp, like they couldn't believe it.

[Van Lathan]

So it was like that kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

So it's one of those interesting scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

To me, because this is just Van's wheelhouse. It is. Because it's actually not. He's been waiting.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not the most racist thing that happens in the scene, and I love it when that happens.

[Van Lathan]

Should we guess what the most racist thing is?

[Chris Ryan]

What's the most racist thing in the scene?

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like somehow we both lose if we don't guess the right thing. I might do the DDL and just abstain.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, you're gonna retire from podcasting on me.

[Bill Simmons]

Just retiring.

[Chris Ryan]

So the most racist thing in the scene is. So he's standing there with dad. You know that.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, is it the depiction of the guys on the stoop?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

So the guys on the stoop.

[Bill Simmons]

Just 10 guys hanging out on a stoop.

[Chris Ryan]

But no, they're throwing shirtless and throwing a basketball around.

[Bill Simmons]

Go look at it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's 10 guys on a stoop crowded together, no hoop. They just tossing the basketball around. They got it. They got. They got guns. They got liquor.

[Van Lathan]

Knives.

[Chris Ryan]

They got no. They got knives. They got no shirts. And they have a basketball.

[Van Lathan]

And it's like 8:30 in the morning.

[Chris Ryan]

And they have a basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

The kids are going to school. So school in New York City starts, I would say either 8 or 9. Let's say 8. So multiple picking knits here. Why are all these guys just outside at 7:45 in the morning? Why is Sam Jackson opening his pawn shop for the early 8:00 clock rush?

[Van Lathan]

Well, I think it's more of an electronic store. Yeah. Yeah. I think they're asking if he would take that boombox, but I don't think He's a pawn shop. I think he's an electrician.

[Bill Simmons]

I couldn't tell what the store was.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's an electrician. He's fixing.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's like an electric electrician shot.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's like, gonna. He'll fix your TV. He'll fix your TV.

[Bill Simmons]

Opening at 7:50 in the morning. Look.

[Van Lathan]

Early bird gets the worm.

[Bill Simmons]

And just that, like, it's. It's a little too alive for 7:45 in the morning, I would say.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I. I guess I agree. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that scene is. I'll be honest with you, though. I think that scene is hysterical. Like, even when Sam Jackson looks and goes, call the police, tell him somebody's about to get killed, he walks out there and they're talking. I remember being in the theater and all of a sudden you hear, what the fuck, right?

[Van Lathan]

No, when he has to walk by the old lady and he's just like.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that scene is funny to me, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, who do we not want to help us? He says to the two kids, and they're like, white people. I also think they get in the cab and he keeps on me calling him Jesus. He's like, stop calling me Jesus.

[Van Lathan]

Do I look Puerto Rican to you?

[Bill Simmons]

All of it's great. The mean mugs on the. On the guys. I. I'm just going to assume he never makes it in the cab in real life.

[Chris Ryan]

He doesn't get there. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because they hit him over the head with a bottle. There's 10 of them. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it would be tough.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it'd be tough.

[Chris Ryan]

I will say that when Zeus's character gives the rationale for why he had to save him. Yeah. Number one, he knows he's a police officer. He identifies himself as a police officer. He says, hey, I'm a cop. Some guy made me do this. And the moment that he says, I'm a cop, Zeus changes. He probably would have protected him anyway, but he's like, I definitely can't let the police get killed up here. Because if they get killed, then, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It'S a free for. All right, next one. Simon negotiates with John, and John gets his badge back.

[Van Lathan]

My chair with me in it.

[Chris Ryan]

Why are you trying to kill me?

[Bill Simmons]

Kill me. That's really great.

[Van Lathan]

I know. That's also a great introduction to all the other cops.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's my favorite part is when Walter, the guy with the mustache, like his boss, he's like. He tells Simon he's negotiating. Believe me, the jerk isn't worth it. He stepped on so many toes, this department. By the time next month, he's going to be a security guard. His own wife wants nothing to do with him. And he's two steps shy of becoming a full blown alcoholic. Kind of crossed the line. I felt like you should do that. Maybe a little too much information.

[Van Lathan]

You should be like, believe me, Chris, Ryan's all used up.

[Bill Simmons]

I was, I was going to do this later in the pod, but he.

[Van Lathan]

Doesn'T take my real estate advice.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, hey, you don't want to work, Van. He's nothing but a porn addict.

[Bill Simmons]

No, with Chris, like, I was thinking, like, if Chris, like, Chris gets divorced and becomes an alcoholic, we're still doing pods with them and it's like, I don't know if cr. I don't know if we could count on him. Tell him 11 o' clock call time. And Chris shows a dictionary. Can I get an aspirin?

[Van Lathan]

It's an indictment of you that if I was in that condition, you'd be like, fuck him. We're still wheeling him out there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, 100% Chris.

[Chris Ryan]

Like in a. On a John McClain.

[Bill Simmons]

Some good movies we have done out.

[Chris Ryan]

Here in the tank top, hair up, popping aspirin the whole night.

[Bill Simmons]

Amazing. Just had an alcohol alcoholic binge just for like a year. Just the wheels came off. Sierra showed up. He's wearing like a Ben Simmons torn Sixers jersey. Stupid. I didn't watch that yet, but I'm here anyway. Saw it once. Could be a good gimmick for next year.

[Van Lathan]

Phantom thread. Did I read that wrong?

[Bill Simmons]

I really like that. When he gets the badge back. Next.

[Chris Ryan]

One last thing. Have we gotten away from the trope of you losing your badge, but your superior keeps it in his desk drawer?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, with the other badge.

[Van Lathan]

So good.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey. Hey, you're back. And then the badge hits his hand like fucking Thor's hammer. He's like, fuck, I'm the man again. I'm a cop. You tell me. I could be a cop again. Being a cop was like the most important thing.

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely. Like, the gun in the badge trope is just one of the great things.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me your gun and badge.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the hungover cop thing too. So where. Where was he drinking?

[Van Lathan]

I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, was he up to the night before?

[Van Lathan]

Like the gentleman on the stoop in Harlem. He might have just been out all night. You know what I mean? New York City, you can really push the limits.

[Bill Simmons]

He really tested Holly over the years.

[Chris Ryan]

Is Walter in love with Holly? How many times is Walter gonna bring up this man's ex wife. It would be so weird.

[Bill Simmons]

He's getting it in with Holly, maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

Or he's in love with la. How many times if I came in here and every time I did something wrong, you went, van Kalika deserves better. I'd be like, yo, what the fuck you doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, why keep bringing her up? Yeah, this is between you and I.

[Van Lathan]

Can I just. Two more things from the office when that happens. I love Charlie coming in and setting off a minor bomb and Colleen camping like, Charlie, you're gonna be wearing that.

[Bill Simmons]

Chair up your ass.

[Van Lathan]

And. Yeah, just Graham Greene. And it's really funny that, like, this was a run in movies where I still feel like we were making fun of the act of getting therapy. So the therapist guy, everybody's just like, yeah, fuck you, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Oh, who are you? Yeah, you're a fucking shrink.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So I do miss that era.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I also. We've talked about this before, but the 70s, 80s, just the police stations.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just moved in a way more fun way. And they just seem to capture way better.

[Van Lathan]

It's all printed out papers, hard paper.

[Bill Simmons]

And land people busting each other's. Nobody likes each other. You going to get coffee?

[Chris Ryan]

The. The fucking pricks from Iowa are here again. You know, the whole fucking.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, the whole. The whole thing is like in every cop movie. It's the same shit.

[Bill Simmons]

48 hours, I still think is the best with that.

[Van Lathan]

All of those guys are getting paid like 32 grand a year. You know, they're just skimming coke out of the evidence room.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so I'm going to go most rewatchable for this next part, which I think it's multiple scenes, but I feel like it all ties together. The phone game with the seven wives into the cab ride, driving through Central park, cutting through New York City, and then him jumping on the train and the train bomb going up. Whatever. I just feel like that's one scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Stop yelling at me.

[Van Lathan]

I got a bad headache.

[Bill Simmons]

And the best way south is not 9 5. And it was through the park. Oh, dear.

[Chris Ryan]

I told you the park drive is always jam.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't say park Drive. I said through the park.

[Van Lathan]

It's. I think it's like 15 minutes. It's 15 of the most electrifying minutes in action movie.

[Bill Simmons]

So good.

[Van Lathan]

And the. One of my favorite parts about it is that the moment when McLean goes into the park is the moment that Zeus realizes he's in an action movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Where he's just like, oh, and this is like that kind of 90s meta. Like a character is almost aware of the absurdity of their thing. Like most action movies now are like, no, it's the accountant. And it's normal that Ben affleck will kill 35 guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And nobody ever comments on it. You know what I mean? But in this movie, Zeus is us and is like, what the fuck are you doing? We're driving through. Are you aiming at these people?

[Bill Simmons]

You know, and he said. He did say he was aiming at the mime. That was a great line.

[Chris Ryan]

He's in it. He's in it with a crazy white boy. He's with a crazy white boy. Taking him on a crazy white mission. Crazy white problems. He keeps coming back to that. He never loses his worldview. I honestly think that there's a couple of really unintended funny scenes, or maybe intended funny scenes. But the scene where Simon's fucking with them at the phone booth and they dive. I don't know why that is so hysterical to me. No, no, the answer is why he has a bomb and they jump on the.

[Van Lathan]

It's hysterical to your point. Also, this has got Grace Papaya in the background of the 72nd street payphone. Then they go and they do, like, traffic talk. Oh, you want to take ninth Avenue to get south? No, the fastest way south is through the park.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then it's like, through the park.

[Van Lathan]

Then there's the ambulance blocking scheme, which is based entirely on him knowing what hospital responds to which call at a certain point in the city. And it's just like the whole thing. And then it's the whole getting into the subway part. It's so New York that you are, like, so grounded in, like, this experience. You're so like, I'm right here in this city.

[Bill Simmons]

And it really feels like they're filming in New York, which they are. Yeah. Like, I really genuinely feel like people were.

[Van Lathan]

I was like. We were talking about it when we saw it. So I was like, this movie would cost a billion and a half dollars because you have to shut down.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So many parts of New York.

[Chris Ryan]

Then there's another New York thing that they're doing. And I see my New York friends do all the time is they're arguing over who's more New York. Like, they're arguing over who has the right way to get to this place. Who knows this? Who knows that? Nah, that's not what you do. You go there. Nah, you don't know. This is what you do. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's my introduction to all of that type of shit.

[Bill Simmons]

It was a great spot for a name drop there, but you avoided it. I'm trying to be your New York friends. And then you could have just listed like, three people to impress us, but you didn't do it because you're not that kind of guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Not anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

The Central park piece, there's a couple. How the did they do that? Moments in this movie. Even the Bond with Teller blowing up, I was rewinding and watching. I'm like, did they actually blow up on with Teller? Like, how'd they do this? Because I don't feel like CGI was good enough in 95. I don't know how they did it.

[Van Lathan]

Also, like, so many funny visual sight gags. Like when. When Walsh the cop is following them and he loses them as they come out of the park and he just sees, like, cafe tables exploding and he's just like, ah, I lost him.

[Bill Simmons]

It. We always talk about the concept of the rewatchables as if it's on and you're like, oh, my God, I'm getting sucked in. And sometimes there are movies you can come in halfway through, be like, yes, I'm gonna ride right now. Or like Boogie Nights. You like when Dirk shows up at Jack Horner, says, like, oh, this is gonna be 40 minutes. Yeah. Or the rollover. Whatever you want.

[Van Lathan]

This is the.

[Bill Simmons]

This is. You want to catch the opening? It's like Die Hard 3 starting right now.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Can we push that reservation to 7:30?

[Bill Simmons]

Just give me like an hour here.

[Chris Ryan]

But if they are in that cab, like, if they are in that cab, I'm multi viewing it. Whatever sports I'm watching, I am just.

[Bill Simmons]

You just want to see.

[Chris Ryan]

Finishing the fucking.

[Bill Simmons]

If you. Oh, this also has Sam with the phone ringing. One of my favorite gimmicks. The nervous cop, the phone ringing, and he's like, if you want to shoot me right now.

[Van Lathan]

But first, the yuppie who's like, I was here first, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. Yuppies take a beating in this movie. There's multiple bad ones. That whole scene's great. I do feel like nitpick. I do feel like the bomb would have caused a lot more damage, but I feel like some people are dying.

[Van Lathan]

It's worth mentioning that they. This is when we were a nation and we would blow up a subway train for a movie and it would travel at 45 miles per hour within there. And like the entire film were actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, running for their lives.

[Van Lathan]

And the film crew was like, I'm really glad no one died. When we speed was like that too.

[Bill Simmons]

Is another one where it was like, thank God. No casualties for that scene. They never did. They would just cgi.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon breaks into Fort Knox, a very hot entrance from Chris's girlfriend in this movie. I don't know. Do you want to save it? You want to save it? Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks. This really seems like it's Fort Knox. They do a good job of, like. I don't know what Fort Knox is.

[Chris Ryan]

Actually like, but it's actually not Fort Knox.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, but you know what I mean, like the. Where all the gold would be. It's just like, is this what it would be like, or just all these gold with different countries?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, there's one scene where they bring out that gigantic drill, you know, that big drill that they're drilling through the thing. When I watch the movie, I'm like, they really have that drill drilling into the shit.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a lot of stuff like that. A lot of care. The elevator scene, I have a. I.

[Chris Ryan]

Have a breakout here.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the lottery number last night?

[Van Lathan]

You mean, like, I had to turn the TikTok camera on thing?

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's. It's. No, it's not. When I see the elevator scene, you know what I thought? Fucking Captain America. Winter Soldier.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they stole it.

[Chris Ryan]

They stole the scene.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, sure. I'm sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that a movie done?

[Chris Ryan]

You know what? You gotta stop because it makes the Ringiverse. It makes the Ringiverse feel orphaned when you do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Captain America. Winter Soldier.

[Chris Ryan]

Captain America. The Winter Soldier.

[Bill Simmons]

Captain America, like, Colon, Winter Soldier.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's the Winter Soldier?

[Chris Ryan]

Bucky Barnes is the Winter Soldier.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I forgot about him.

[Chris Ryan]

Captain America's best friend. And then he. Whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

So they steal shit from Bucky Barnes.

[Chris Ryan]

There's an iconic. There's an iconic elevator scene where Captain America is on the elevator and all these people behind him are actually HYDRA agents.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he realizes that he doesn't know that they're HYDRA agents yet, but he realizes that they're trying to capture him. And so he looks around, he goes, before we get started, does anybody want to get off the elevator? And then he proceeds to fuck all of these people up. And that's essentially the same scene. It's the exact same thing that happens to Die Hard with Avengers.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Except John McClane puts a gun in a guy's head and is just like, drop the gun. This is Reservoir Dogs, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I slow moed it to figure out how he did it. And my wife was just in the. In the TV room with me. Doing on her iPad and just looking over at me like, wow, this is just never.

[Van Lathan]

You're deranged.

[Bill Simmons]

You're just like a deranged human being. Yeah, but he's got the two people behind him. They edit it really fast, so you almost don't know what's happening. But he takes the gun, he shoots through his coat behind him at the two guys and somehow nails both of them, then turns it around, somehow kills the third guy, and then is in the standoff with the fourth guy. But I'm gonna say the degree of difficulty is about an 11.2 out of 9.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think John's getting out of there. But it's. It's a great line when Zeus is like, are you okay? And he's like, oh, yeah, it's not my blood.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's not my blood. It's a classic. That elevator scene's great. I like when the guy. He calls it a lift.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they flew the tip off, calls it a lift.

[Chris Ryan]

He also says it's raining, like, dogs and cats.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So.

[Bill Simmons]

And then nobody knows the lottery number, which is like, the number one.

[Chris Ryan]

John's like.

[Van Lathan]

And he's wearing Walsh's badge. He sees Walsh's badge number.

[Chris Ryan]

And so all of you are going to die. Jon, by the way, his policing. He doesn't say, hey, you're under arrest. Nypd. No, Jon, just. He notices that you're a bad guy, and then he kills you.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that scene could have been longer where he could have just done more things to realize those guys weren't real. Like, be like, what's up with Patrick Ewing? Is he ever going to get over the top?

[Van Lathan]

Tino Martinez got a soft glove, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Can you believe that Mattingly is Yankee?

[Bill Simmons]

Just could have kept going for me.

[Chris Ryan]

But Wade Bogs.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, couple more quick ones. Wade Bogs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The kid saying, look around, man. All the cops are into something. It's Christmas. You could steal city hall. It's just a great Voila moment. John McLean, good at the voila moments. One of his. One of his signature things I like on the boat. Just when Irons takes the gun from Sam and just shoots him in the leg.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the swag.

[Van Lathan]

While he's eating the egg.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's eating the egg. He is never afraid of him. He realizes guys is not combat tested.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Let me see that real quick. Got to take the safety off. Where's my claim? That's, like, cool villain shit.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the ending is ridiculous, but I do enjoy it. Say hello to your brother. What do you got for most rewatchable Sierra?

[Van Lathan]

I have the same sequence that you're talking about. If I had to pick one, I'd probably go cab ride downtown.

[Bill Simmons]

Van.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly. Same thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, what's the most 1995 thing about this movie? Cr.

[Van Lathan]

I got payphones.

[Bill Simmons]

Those as well. I had crucial scenes with payphones.

[Van Lathan]

Crucial payphones in crucial taxi cabs. World Trade Centers there. And Rodney King references.

[Chris Ryan]

Rodney King references. There were only 42 presidents.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, so that's a good one.

[Chris Ryan]

So that's a big part of it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna add that one.

[Chris Ryan]

And the look of New York City. This is one of the last movies. Because when you get movies filmed or set in New York now, it's a, I guess, post Giuliani New York cleanup. So you get a different version of New York almost. I know this is New York Month, but New York existing as the Warriors New York or as the New York that, you know was in all of these different movies. Kind of gone now.

[Bill Simmons]

Happier, sunnier New York.

[Chris Ryan]

Happier, sunnier.

[Bill Simmons]

No Internet yet. No bikes.

[Van Lathan]

More corporatized now instead of like, no electric bikes businesses. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No pot.

[Chris Ryan]

If you do this. If you do.

[Bill Simmons]

If you hot smoke everywhere now.

[Van Lathan]

All right, Pam Bondi, relax.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe clean up the pot a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

New York. But in New York, when I go there now, you drive, pop by places. There are activations everywhere. There's all kinds of stuff. You can tell that the city has kind of a different ethos to it now. But this is one of the movies where you could still have that New York as a character in the film.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the lady saying, and I'm gonna marry Donald Trump.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And a Hillary Clinton reference in this one, too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the Twin Towers that you mentioned, but I. I blew it out. Bruce and Sam jogging, both with hair, with the Twin Towers behind them. Yeah. Very 1995.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Bon with Teller.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Department stores.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack, you have any idea what Bonwood Tower is?

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know what was your. What was the big Boston department store?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they were that all the same. We have water makers, pennies, all those. I mean, the big one in. In Connecticut was Calders.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Caldors.

[Van Lathan]

Caldors.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

We had Gotchas.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I don't know what happened.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Gotchas is the. It was a. It was. It lasted through the 80s into the 90s. But anything like Macy's Bottom or something like Gotcha's was like a. Like a Louisiana.

[Van Lathan]

Department store.

[Chris Ryan]

Department store chain. Yeah. Gotcha.

[Bill Simmons]

Awesome. Bloomingdale's was big in Boston, but I think that's Bloomingdale's is all around. It's all around.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It is funny when you only live in one place for a while and then you go to other places. They have a Bloomingdale here, like, just like completely shy.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you guys have Dillard's? No, no, we had Dillards in the South.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Love Dillards.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't always do this category, but did this movie need a. Need a better title? Can we talk about the Die Hard with a vengeance thing for a second?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I mean, is there a New York thing that we could have? I mean, if you just called it Die Hard in New York, that's pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Die Hard 3? Simon says? Well, is that just a better title on my credit?

[Van Lathan]

Here's the thing is, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Why can't this be Die Hard 3 colon something? Why did we get away from that? Well, I call it Die Hard 3.

[Chris Ryan]

Honestly, when I said that, I wasn't super jazzed about going to see it. I went to see it. I was seeing movies so much at that time. It was kind of because of the title a little bit. It's like, what is.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, there is vengeance. It's Simon's vengeance.

[Chris Ryan]

It is Simon's vengeance.

[Bill Simmons]

Die Hard 3, Simon says. I don't know. It's just better or just call it Die Hard 3.

[Van Lathan]

Die Hard 3. The other Gruber.

[Bill Simmons]

Second Gruber. We'll take one more break. We'll do what saves the best. This episode is supported by FX is the Bear. The Emmy award winning series returns following Carmi, Sydney and Richie as they push forward, determined not only to survive, but also to take the Bear to the next level. This season, the pursuit of excellence isn't just about getting better. It's about deciding what's worth holding on to. FX is the bear. All episodes streaming June 25th on Hulu. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If there's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation, it's my Apple card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple card for your summer travels, apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today, subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2025 Terms and more at applecard.com this episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Planning a few summer projects Upgrade your toolbox with 4th of July savings. Wow. We're already here with 4th of July savings. This is great. On select top brand cordless power from the Home Depot. Whether you're working on a fence, a pointer box, or a new workbench, you'll get power and convenience with the Ryobi 118 volt 2 tool kit from the Home Depot. Now at a lower price of $99 was $139. That's why you can get 4th of July savings on the cordless power. You need to make summer projects easier than ever right now at the Home Depot. All right, what's age the best? I have a bunch. What do you have? C.R.

[Van Lathan]

I gotta say, I have a bunch as well. I fucking love a black guy and a white guy working together. You know what? Sometimes we've been at odds, but Jesus Christ, when it clicks, it clicks.

[Chris Ryan]

That is my. What's aged the best? By far the first thing you learn about Zeus is we don't need no help from white people. Really. The movie is about a racial reckoning where white people and black people help each other. White people and black people help against.

[Van Lathan]

Like when they're in Square Park. He's like, say it. He's like, what?

[Bill Simmons]

Say, I was going to call you an asshole.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm like, yo, yo. That's actually the center of the movie. And it's a big. Against the crazy Europeans. The crazy Europeans are the enemy.

[Bill Simmons]

As the OJ Trial is happening in.

[Chris Ryan]

Real life, OJ Trial's happening. That's what's aged the best. That's the lesson of this movie. McClane always has, well, went away from it. But McClane is with us. He always has a brother that's helping him out.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny. 48 hours basically starts that and it just keeps going in that thread. So this movie's both ripping off 48 hours and ripping off itself because it's a Die Hard movie. But that.

[Chris Ryan]

But this movie doesn't. A lot of those other films, they play the racial differences like it's subtext, right? It's jokes. It's whatever 48 hours is, obviously. But in this one, you have the Zeus character who has a direct way of looking at things. And that's kind of the Times were a little fraught. So it's kind of McClane who just wants to get to mission accomplishment and Zeus, who has all of these other views.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the shoot the gun thing is funny where he goes, look, all brothers don't know how to shoot guns, you racist.

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It has a lot of moments.

[Van Lathan]

At the pay phone is like police business. Hang the get, get a new phone or whatever. And he's like, don't do that shit. Like you're here like as like my assistant, basically, but you're not a cop. And he's like, I'm going to fucking walk away then. How about that? Yeah, you need me more than I need you. Like, it's, it's got like power dynamics in a really cool way. It Anyway, it's just like I, I, I think I. Like every five years we gotta have.

[Chris Ryan]

So Zeus says, all brothers don't know how to use the gun. And then he does exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

He goes.

[Chris Ryan]

He does exactly what McLean asked him to do.

[Bill Simmons]

What else do you have?

[Van Lathan]

Can I do Katya now?

[Bill Simmons]

Save it for the end.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

For what?

[Bill Simmons]

Stage?

[Chris Ryan]

Hangovers.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's one of the great hangover movies.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the great hangover movies.

[Bill Simmons]

He just needs a couple aspirin.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, a couple of aspirin.

[Bill Simmons]

But then his head's really hurting him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Hangovers.

[Bill Simmons]

Filming this much of New York we mentioned, I have for wit stage the best. Anytime a character, the phone rings and somebody in the police station answers and the cop doesn't want any part of it. And they go, I think you better take this, Walter. I think you better take this. It's always good. I like when evil brothers turn out to be the one wreaking the revenge.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is. Had mixed results. Another 48 hours. Gans is sure Gans's brother didn't totally work, but you know what this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Does great is they hide Simon like the shark from Jaws shows up at minute 50.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And when he shows up and you're like, God damn, Jeremy Irons is blonde and he's killing people. This is crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

Then they let him. Then they let him rip for a little while. Yeah. Then you get him acting like somebody else. You get the moment where one of my favorite moments in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Mr. Van Der Flug.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Mr. Van Der Flug. And then at the end of the movie where McClane thinks he's gonna die, and he just goes, your brother was an asshole. And it hurts, Simon.

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

And you could tell. And so you know what's wrong with.

[Bill Simmons]

That if fantasy had been murdered at the Braves game.

[Chris Ryan]

Jesus Christ.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. Then CR becomes. He becomes the Simon Gruber. He goes to Atlanta for revenge. Goes to a Hawks game, trying to blow up a Hawks Hornets game to get revenge for Sean. That's basically I'm just doing action movie premise.

[Chris Ryan]

I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you staring at me like.

[Chris Ryan]

You'Re a sick motherfucker, bro?

[Bill Simmons]

Hungarian army. Hungarian army explosive expert. Now working for the Iranians.

[Van Lathan]

Targo.

[Bill Simmons]

A quote actually said in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hungarian army explosive expert Network. He might have got a triple crowd.

[Van Lathan]

The last draft pick of the Bullets.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I really like when they do that. Does the name Gruber mean anything to you? And they do the flashback of Hans falling.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

This is my biggest nitpick. But yes. What that. That reveal?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you wish.

[Van Lathan]

When the therapist is like, he spoke with a German accent, you'd be like, yeah, I know a German guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you think you would have caught that earlier. Good point, good point.

[Van Lathan]

CR Any experience with German people in your past?

[Bill Simmons]

Here's another. What's age the best? When we have an action film and a car chase, but somebody's in a cab and then just a random passenger gets in the cab thinking it's entering a cab. 100 success rate. It's never not worked ever in the history.

[Van Lathan]

I also love when they steal their Mercedes, commandeering people's views. And the guy and they're like, who's the 42nd president? He's like, go.

[Bill Simmons]

Commandeering vehicles. Seems like it would be the single most fun thing about being a police officer. Be like, I'm just gonna take it.

[Van Lathan]

Slightly more controversial acts now. But yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Alcoholic hero cops who have people say to them, jesus, you look like.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, can't be this every pod.

[Van Lathan]

You start with me. You look like shit, Chris.

[Bill Simmons]

You look like shit.

[Chris Ryan]

But like, out of a place of concern.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What the fuck is going on with you, by the way? That Bruce. That's Bruce Willis's place in the action movie Panther. That's his place.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The everyman cop who looks like shit, but can rise to the occasion because stuff's at stake.

[Van Lathan]

I have two storytelling mechanisms that have aged the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

There is a constant ticking clock in this movie. A series of ticking clocks, basically. Because every task they have to do is you have 15 minutes, you have this. Sometimes they actually keep the action to the amount of time that they have to get real time. They go real time. So that plus the. The changeover in the middle of the movie where they can't use the radios anymore. And everybody is. Now we. We're in the dark. We can't call. Like we can't. You know, and it's like you have to use the switchboard. I also love the switchboard. See, like the whole world just called 91 1. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Also the fact this movie gets into like dueling plots. Because Die Hard is intimate. Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But not this one. This is not an intimate Die Hard. And obviously the subsequent sequels, which we haven't talked about at all, they're not intimate at all. Right. But this one is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Not intimate.

[Van Lathan]

Die Hard, it's pretty tough.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But like, this one is Justin Long is a tech hacker.

[Chris Ryan]

This one is.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks.

[Chris Ryan]

McClain's dummy mission that he's actually on. Then the existential threat of the bombs at the school with the guy trying to diffuse the bombs. There's multi front wars and then the heist going on at the same time. So it's kind of a blueprint to a contemporary action movie where it's just not about the thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's four or five different things happening.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this is a what stage? The best. You tell me. Because everyone does Sam Jackson impersonations, Right. Does it come from this movie or Pulp.

[Chris Ryan]

Pulp Fiction.

[Van Lathan]

Pulp.

[Bill Simmons]

You could argue he's doing more of the Sam Jackson impression of Sam Jackson in this movie than in Pulp.

[Chris Ryan]

No, you couldn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you could. It's pulp.

[Chris Ryan]

This is like on the level of my. Joe Pesci was better in Lethal Weapons than Goodfellow state. This is on the same level as Pulp. Fishing.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On my way to St. Ives, I met a man with seven wives. Every wife has seven sacks. Every sack had seven cats. Every cat had seven kittens. Kittens, cats, sacks and wives. How many were going to St. Ives? John just nails it. There's no way I'm knowing that.

[Van Lathan]

Zeus nails it.

[Bill Simmons]

Zeus nails it. I mean, uh, no way I'm figuring that out.

[Chris Ryan]

Just one.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's here once. There's no way.

[Van Lathan]

It's hard. It's hard.

[Bill Simmons]

So Zeus nailing it as a what stage? The best. Because I'm just so impressed that it's.

[Van Lathan]

Cool that he's like, I'm good at puzzles. Like, let me, let me, let me think about this.

[Bill Simmons]

For that's too fucking hard.

[Chris Ryan]

Movie is. Zeus is kind of the brains of the operation when it comes to that whole thing. It's another little thing that the movie is doing, subverting expectations. But that's a nitpick for me is some of these Things that they have to do. I just don't have any faith. They would have figured them out.

[Van Lathan]

The question is whether or not they were supposed to or not.

[Chris Ryan]

True.

[Bill Simmons]

And then any action movie villain playing Simon says, sign me up.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, go ahead. Can I talk about Katya now?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have. I thought for sure you would use that as your CR Flex category. Just let him do that here. Go ahead. Do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Wants it so badly.

[Van Lathan]

Katya is played by the country music singer Sam Phillips.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Her entrance in this film is among the three or four greatest character entrances of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

She is wearing cigarette in her mouth.

[Van Lathan]

Popped collar, green army shirt. Her blonde hair is slicked back. She's got sunglasses on and she's got a cigarette dangling from her mouth. And then she cuts a guy to pieces so that she's covered in his own blood. And it's the hottest thing I've ever seen in my life. Save Edie.

[Bill Simmons]

Even better than Edie Falco. Copland. This is really the heyday for you. Those movies are a year apart.

[Van Lathan]

These are the two. This is like. Like Ali Frazier of blonde smoking is Edie Falco.

[Bill Simmons]

Does she have a smoker? She just has the.

[Van Lathan]

She's got it dangling out of her mouth. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's dead.

[Bill Simmons]

My dear.

[Van Lathan]

She's mute.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And the Israelis tried to kill her.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny that she's a country western singer who just by mere body language and a smear in her face, sneer in her face. Looks like a German.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't learn this till I started doing research last night. I would have bet anything that she was an Eastern European.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, she was, like, Bulgarian.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

She's like a critically adored country music song.

[Chris Ryan]

She's married to fucking the guy. I literally looked that up last night.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, this does lead to. Did the Mally Rubin Award for. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

[Van Lathan]

It would have been because they said.

[Bill Simmons]

They threw that in because McTiernan's like, we're getting in our. Anyway, let's get a little.

[Van Lathan]

Also, can I just say we could.

[Bill Simmons]

Have maybe unleashed her a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Kind of vision we need exactly. Is like, I'm getting an R anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

We're getting an R anyway. Is the greatest sentence any direction.

[Van Lathan]

And there's going to be some fucking.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that. But you know what killed that? Remember when we. Craig. Craig, who's not here today. But remember when we talked to Craig a little while ago, like last year, two years ago, and he was like, this movie had unneeded Boobs. Like, why did this movie need boobs? Remember when we were having that conversation? You know why the movie needs boobs?

[Bill Simmons]

Generational.

[Chris Ryan]

Because this is America. That's why the movie needs boobs.

[Bill Simmons]

There been a bomb in a strip club in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly. Like that's why the movie Cheetahs.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the. What was the scores in the 90s?

[Van Lathan]

Scores.

[Bill Simmons]

Was the fan. I'm trying to think.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, my wife might be watching. What was the 1 90s? Pandas.

[Van Lathan]

You think carries?

[Bill Simmons]

We have scores.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Scores. Yeah. Still big.

[Bill Simmons]

Put a bomb in scores over the school.

[Van Lathan]

Don't give away free ip.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Van Lathan]

Sorry. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for Big Kahuna Burger award for best use of food and drink?

[Van Lathan]

Aspirin.

[Chris Ryan]

The aspirin.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay. Great shot. Go Order award. Most cinematic shot for me. Bomb with tower exploding, which is really good.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

That is actually, I was going to say the opening. Three or four shots of the sun coming up in New York City and you're just like, I'm now hot.

[Bill Simmons]

Great stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Chess. Rockwell Brocklanders.

[Chris Ryan]

Aw, hold on. I have one for Grot.

[Bill Simmons]

Gordo, what's here?

[Chris Ryan]

The guy getting cut in half.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, from the wire. The wire.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the. That is when I realized. Oh, it. They, they. They said it.

[Bill Simmons]

I like when they drag him too. We should put that in one stage the best. And they're pulling the two different parts. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You get the legs.

[Bill Simmons]

There's intestines everywhere. By the way, that's. It's way messier. Chess. Rockwell Brocklanders were our best character name. Zeus Carver is pretty tough to.

[Chris Ryan]

To beat. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for flex category? Cr.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, I got two. One that's pre existing. It's. When would I have died and it would have been water jugs. I still don't understand it. I've read extensive explanations to how they figure it out, and it's just weird.

[Bill Simmons]

I. My brain just figures this out.

[Van Lathan]

I couldn't do it. So you would be able to do water jugs. Yeah, but you wouldn't. You wouldn't have gotten through St. Ives.

[Bill Simmons]

I just. He said it so fast, I don't think I could have remembered it. Water jugs I would have gotten.

[Van Lathan]

But I did make up a new category for my flex here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's the rat category.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Ratzo. Rizzo, I'm walking here. Most New York quote award.

[Bill Simmons]

Nice. We did.

[Van Lathan]

Why keep calling me Jesus? Do I look Puerto Rican to you? The Wall street guy saying your lights are on. Look, I'll make this very simple. 112 Wall street, or I'll have your medallion. What, you don't like white people? I like Zeus going, I'm not jumping through hoops for some psycho. That's a white man with white problems. You deal with him. When he calls, when he crosses 110th Street. And then Walter saying, get a hold of Musson in Triborough, Tell him to close the east river bridges north of 59th street looking for dump trucks. And Connie goes, dump trucks? And Walter's like, mlan says, there's dump trucks headed up the FPR loaded with gold. Connie, Walter, they don't allow dump trucks on the fdr. So I like that one the most.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good category. Yeah, I wish we had had that three, three episodes ago. All right. Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

[Van Lathan]

So this movie has the apocalypse now, flight of the Valkyries problem. Where, like, the action in the beginning of the movie is so good there's no way to have a finale. It's like the helicopter is an apocalypse. So it's like the first 113 minutes of this movie are perfect and you just can't top it. You can't top the subway car with the end of this film. And they. They kind of. They kind of give up. They kind of shrug their shoulders.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we'll go. When we do Half Ass, we'll go into the. The alternate ending. I had the. Basically the same thing, but I'll even go a little more precise. Why is Zeus involved In the last 40 minutes of this movie? It's fucking ridiculous. He's. He's a normal person. There's a moment in this movie where it's like, all right, Zeus, thanks for everything.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe you should go back to your store and your family and this is.

[Van Lathan]

Now like a. Simon no longer needs you.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon. You're not involved. You're not. This isn't a buddy cop movie anymore. Thank you for everything. But instead, he's just now a cop.

[Van Lathan]

He's in a chopper leading the attack.

[Bill Simmons]

He's shot in the leg. He's fine.

[Van Lathan]

You're doing Wind Horse Fingers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Cause I was gonna fucking get at Bill, but there's no reason to. It's a good point. You know what? This happens so often in these mid-90s action movies. Do you remember how Erica Eleniak becomes a fucking commando? She's. She pops out to one of the great, great adolescent Van Lathan moments of Milk of the early 1990s. It's just, bro, I'm not even gonna fucking try to act like I wasn't like, oh, shit, when that happened. Then by the end of the movie, she a fucking Navy seal.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So that does happen in these films, and it's something that they've gotten away from. They don't do that that much.

[Van Lathan]

No, that is probably for the best.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, 48 Hours invented it. Reggie Hammond goes from. He's on a 48 hour, you know, whatever. By the end of the movie, he's shooting guns, trying to find gas. Did you have a weak link or no?

[Chris Ryan]

I did. Holly got sick of it. The wife. No more mention of her. Hey, McLain, call your wife right now. Go call Holly. Man, fuck all that. We gotta get to the end of the mission here. Stop bringing Holly back into the movie. I know she was a big presence in terms of the driving narrative force of particularly the first Die Hard and you could say second two.

[Van Lathan]

She's on the plane.

[Chris Ryan]

She's on the plane. But, like, at this point, it's over. He saved basically two different cities, and Holly's still not fucking with them.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you. I had this for casting Couch. A twist that would have made this movie better. The Colleen Camp character, we make her Annabella Shiora. And John McClane's involved with her post divorce, but she's dumped him because he's an alcoholic. But she works in the. In the police department with him. And now we have a little sexual tension and she's pissed and blah, blah, blah. And the movie's just better.

[Chris Ryan]

And then it makes her.

[Van Lathan]

You take the phone call, we have the meeting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

If that's a pitch.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just a better movie.

[Chris Ryan]

And then it gives it a little.

[Bill Simmons]

More, Oh, I gotta call Holly. Oh, now I gotta call her.

[Van Lathan]

Is Bedelia in any other Die Hard movies? I don't think so. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And honestly, probably. We talked about this. You could talk yourself into her not being in Die Hard too. I know they. They shoehorn.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's sort of like they. They basically make it. That's why John isn't like, I'm just gonna turn this over to airport.

[Bill Simmons]

It's because it's pursuit for him. The Die Hard 3 is ridiculous. What stage? The worst. We get it. McLean has a bad headache. He mentions it 42 times by, like, the ninth reference. Little stale. What else do you have?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, explosions in the New York City Financial district are a little touchy. And then this whole thing came out around the Oklahoma bombing. Yep. So they had to do A lot of, like, basically, like, preemptive press to say, like, it had nothing. You know, obviously we're not making light of this, but we're all.

[Bill Simmons]

Willis does the press tour for it. And they're like, there will be no bombing. Question. Yes. We're just talking about the movie. We made it a year ago.

[Van Lathan]

So probably that I would say, to each the worst.

[Chris Ryan]

So McClain's policing John gets to the point to where he just. If he thinks he just kills you. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He doesn't give a fuck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

If you have an Eastern European accent, you're dead.

[Chris Ryan]

You're dead. Like, particularly when he walks up on the guys and the thing just boom, boom, boom. I get it, though. He's in a combat situation. And although I like it aesthetically, the heist where there's been an explosion and there are five or 10 dump trucks that are going down there and taking all of that gold. And the cops are just like, oh, okay. This guy said, that just doesn't make that much sense. That's something that you have to make leave in order for the movie to work.

[Van Lathan]

Do you know what actually also has aged the worst is probably the. The reputation of, like, city services. Because, like, in this movie, when they're like, we're going to have to find the bomb ourselves. And it's like the sanitation workers and the librarians and the firefighters are all just like, we're going to walk into schools. There might be a bomb. We got to do it. And now it's kind of like everybody's like, I don't know. These guys, they take too long to respond. Who needs libraries?

[Bill Simmons]

What's age worse? Well, they. Even McTiernan has acknowledged this. The gold is just way heavier than this.

[Van Lathan]

The dump trucks could say they would need, like a hundred dump trucks.

[Bill Simmons]

And you would have needed 480 dump trucks to take out as much gold as they took out. Each gold bar weighs 25 pounds.

[Van Lathan]

One of the funny things is that.

[Bill Simmons]

They only completely fucked it up.

[Van Lathan]

There's. In the Fed, the Federal Reserve. There's only apparently a billion and a half dollars or something like that.

[Chris Ryan]

So where did it get the other 300 million? Oh, it was 174.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they. They took some liberties.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. But it's like that even, like. That's not even like a piece of the Lakers at this point, Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Because the lakers sold for 10 billion.

[Van Lathan]

$10 billion.

[Chris Ryan]

Valuable franchise of all time, ever.

[Bill Simmons]

10 billion dollar valuation.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You kept 4.8 billion for $4.8 billion check. Actually.

[Chris Ryan]

10 million bucks, you know, and by the way, the. The late. The Minnesota championships don't count thing is absurd. It's absurd.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so if OKC wins on Sunday, we're taping this before game seven. We should have a Casey, like, we've won our second title.

[Van Lathan]

Honestly, it's ridiculous. If OKC wins on Sunday, you should do like a live pod from Seattle congratulating them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, congratulating the Sonics fans for pulling off their second title.

[Chris Ryan]

If the Sonics fans want to say that's our franchise, they can. But it's the same franchise, right?

[Bill Simmons]

You won 11 titles. That's fine. You've still won a shitload.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. They've won 17 titles.

[Bill Simmons]

Five titles in Minneapolis when. Then they moved to LA.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's the same franchise and they.

[Bill Simmons]

Just kept the name. Lakers family.

[Van Lathan]

Are you talking about.

[Chris Ryan]

They're the Lakers, though. They're still the Lakers, though.

[Bill Simmons]

It's bullshit, okay? You win a title in a city, that's where you won the title. 17 championships, minus $10 billion valuations. 16 championships.

[Chris Ryan]

16.

[Bill Simmons]

16. Wait, now. Now you made me screw up my.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, Boston Blitzed your mind.

[Bill Simmons]

No, the ending stinks. Yeah, it's bad. This is the flaw of the movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the. What's age. The worst. And then you can see the alternate movie, the alternate ending on the special edition, all the stuff. And it's on YouTube. I sent it to you guys. The actual ending of this movie didn't happen. McLean goes and finds him in Hungary and plays, McLean says with Jeremy Irons and eventually kills him with a rocket launcher. And it's really interesting. It's the most interesting John McLean scene of the first three movies. And of course, the studio's like, this is too dark. We can't end the movie this way.

[Van Lathan]

It's like he's a vigilante.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So they basically hustle this reshoot. They spend a lot of money on it. They. Oh, it's like, oh. He turns out because he has the location on that aspirin.

[Van Lathan]

What's going crazy? You're like. So there's like a idiotic. Like a Quebec bottle of aspirin means, you know, he's gonna be back there.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, like, literally at that location. And then there's a helicopter, and then they shoot him. And then it's like Zeus is just sitting on the.

[Van Lathan]

They don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Sidewalk. Why is he in Quebec if I'm.

[Chris Ryan]

Zeus, I've had enough.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'm not going to Quebec.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Or when we get to Quebec. We're not gonna go jump this guy and put the spotlight on him when he's trying to have sex with Katya. We're gonna just go arrest him or send in swat.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like, my legs up. Yeah, I'm gonna skip Quebec. I've walked with a limp now. Where's my money for all of this? It's really dumb. So. All right, so we're gonna go now to.

[Chris Ryan]

My flex category.

[Bill Simmons]

The Ruffalo hand and Ruby Partridge overacting word.

[Chris Ryan]

Or that.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Sam dials it up a couple times.

[Van Lathan]

Sam dials it up and iron styles it up a couple of times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Dan, what's your flex category?

[Chris Ryan]

It's the Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award. Did this movie need a random sports scene?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You don't consider the brothers on the stoop?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's some good.

[Chris Ryan]

Yankee Stadium should have had a game going on. Well, yeah, Yankee Stadium should have had a game going on. There should have been a game going on.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you know what I think?

[Chris Ryan]

Wade Boggs, Don Madley, Paul o' Neill, Danny Tarnable, all of those Yankees.

[Bill Simmons]

I had the answer for you.

[Chris Ryan]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

I think the lockout had happened. The strike. Oh, I don't think that. I think that's how they were able to film.

[Van Lathan]

So was Yankee Stadium just available for people to drop and check it out?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was. I don't think there were games. But I should have been mentioned in the movie, though.

[Chris Ryan]

I look back at that era, because that's right before the Yankee golden era starts.

[Bill Simmons]

Year before. Year before they're in the 95 playoffs against Seattle.

[Chris Ryan]

So, you know, some of these guys that would go on to become, you know, mainstays. It's pre Jeter.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good call.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But there should have been a game going on.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have gone to. Yeah, or they could have done. The Mets stadium probably makes more sense for this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, probably.

[Bill Simmons]

The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest. Take a word.

[Van Lathan]

Not sure how hot this is.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

How hot is it to say it's the best Die Hard movie? And to go along with your points earlier, how hot is it to say that it's perhaps improved by not imperiling Holly, by not having that kind of like. Like, weight on McClain, that it's really just more about him trying to save the city and save himself?

[Bill Simmons]

So Die Hard's the. One of the best movies of all time.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just. I just. The hottest takeaway.

[Bill Simmons]

I think everybody needs to calm down on that take. No, I no, because I think there are people out there who are like, Die Hard 3 is the best Die Hard movie and not even hottest. Taking it like, they actually genuinely believe it.

[Chris Ryan]

So it's interesting. I wanted to say it, but I didn't have the nuts for it. But this is my favorite one.

[Bill Simmons]

That's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not saying that this is better then Die Hard. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I think that's okay.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's has a perfect ending, whereas this ending is not. So.

[Bill Simmons]

But Rocky 4 is my favorite Rocky movie. This is Rocky 3.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't even remember.

[Chris Ryan]

This is my favorite one of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Two is my favorite. It changes all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not the best one, but this is my. I could. I could see how people.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the most entertaining.

[Chris Ryan]

My favorite one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's fair. All right. I'm going full hot.

[Van Lathan]

Good.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they blew it using the Simon says gimmick for this movie. And I think it was a franchise, and I think it was just sitting there, and I don't know why. Initially, it was a script called Simon says written by the same screenwriter. Lethal Weapon grabbed it, couldn't figure it out, give it to Die Hard 3, and they use it. I think it's either an action movie franchise or a horror movie franchise. And I actually think you could say it's a better horror movie.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, basically saw.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But the whole Simon says gimmick. I didn't say Simon that time. I think. I think I just see Murder's Blood and sequels with it.

[Van Lathan]

Wouldn't it be crazy if we found out that Trump has been getting Simon Says for, like, eight years? And like. Like, every. Every day he gets a phone call. It's like, Simon says, you got to do this. And he's like, like, all right, I gotta tweet this out.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Well, so.

[Chris Ryan]

That'S actually kind of the plot. Captain America, Brave New World.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But, well, so Simon says it was supposed to be a Brandon Lee movie, and then he died.

[Chris Ryan]

He passed away. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So if he doesn't die and Simon says just because, like, could they have made, like, five Simon says movies?

[Van Lathan]

It's been 30 years. We literally could probably get Simon says going right now.

[Chris Ryan]

It could probably get it made. Bring our film.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack. Does your generation care about Simon says? Sure. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, y' all played that?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting. You know what? I didn't see? And maybe I missed this. Why did Joel Silver not produce this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

They had a falling.

[Van Lathan]

Falling out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Who had a fallen.

[Van Lathan]

I think Willis.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, cool.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, Willis was feeling it a little bit. He's married to Demi Moore.

[Van Lathan]

Joel, a combative personality.

[Bill Simmons]

20 million. Yeah. I think Joel wasn't.

[Van Lathan]

I think because that was. There was a piece in the research about, like, Shane Black was maybe going to write this when it was Joel Silver.

[Chris Ryan]

And then interesting that Joel Silver. This movie does not get made with Laurence Fishburne.

[Van Lathan]

And he goes on to make.

[Chris Ryan]

Makes the Matrix with him.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I think this is true. I'm not positive for casting what ifs. We did Fishburne, but that Sean Connery was their first choice for Simon.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I saw it.

[Bill Simmons]

So we think that's true.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I think he makes the phone.

[Chris Ryan]

I saw that in the research. But Sean said he didn't want to play like a. But then he did Medicine man, though. Remember the Medicine Man?

[Bill Simmons]

I think that movie bombs if he's. I don't think it's the same movie. I don't think it works.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't buy him as, like, an evil. Plus him trying to do a German accent also.

[Van Lathan]

Iron's the one he takes that. He's like, got the tank top on, he's ripped.

[Bill Simmons]

Just doesn't work.

[Chris Ryan]

When did Sean. Has Sean gone bad in anything?

[Bill Simmons]

Fantasy?

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Van Lathan]

In Atlanta.

[Chris Ryan]

Connery.

[Van Lathan]

Has Connery gone bad in anything besides he in, like, the 70s stuff? He's like.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I haven't seen Hunt for Red October, but is he a bad guy in that?

[Chris Ryan]

He defects.

[Bill Simmons]

So does that count?

[Chris Ryan]

No. He defects to the Americans. The Americans?

[Bill Simmons]

Is that streaming?

[Van Lathan]

Dude?

[Chris Ryan]

What is this Hunt for Red October thing? I'm not in on this.

[Van Lathan]

It's like, one of the most.

[Chris Ryan]

You've never seen that before?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I've seen it.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. I was about to.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I like it. We just haven't done it yet.

[Van Lathan]

And CR and he keeps giving me, like, it sees Simon says in me. He's like, someone says, if you want to do it for October, you got.

[Chris Ryan]

To watch Insight Moves A phenomenal.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm waiting until CR Becomes a divorced alcoholic. Then we're gonna do it. Showed up just smoking cigs.

[Van Lathan]

God, C.R. you look like shit.

[Bill Simmons]

He's bringing those little airport liquor bottles with him. Pouring his coffee. McTiernan turned down Batman Forever so he could do this casting window best that guy award. Is Colleen Camp Count or is she calling Camp?

[Chris Ryan]

She's calling Camp.

[Bill Simmons]

The Kevin Chamberlain is bomb expert Charles Weiss.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is bald guy with the glasses.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. If you saw him after that, it would be this. But I think the answer is Walter Cobb.

[Van Lathan]

Larry Brigman.

[Bill Simmons]

Larry Brigman. Never knew what his name was.

[Van Lathan]

And big time New York theater actor. He's in the Al Pacino, Richard III movie that got made like a little bit after this. But he, like, when in that movie you can see he's like a big time.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's in Injustice for All.

[Van Lathan]

I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I had Anthony Peck as Walsh is up there. He's also in Hunt for October. John Doman, who's Rawls from the Wire, is the construction foreman when they go into the tunnels. And I don't know if this is a that guy, but it's a that guy. Like, if you. If you know, you know. Is Elvis Duran.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. Radio guy. Young Elvis Duran. Yeah, Young Elvis Duran. I have Phyllis, Yvonne Stickney. The black lady who says in the movie, who says, Everybody just called 911 at the same time. A mainstay. You see her everywhere. This is Malcolm X. All different types of roles. Shout out to her. I don't want to call her. She's a fantastic career, but I just.

[Bill Simmons]

Wanted to shout her out. I'd never do this, but I have to go back to a movie we did last week because I messed up a Best that Guy award. And it really bothered me all week because I didn't realize it was the.

[Van Lathan]

Same best Marathon man, that guy.

[Bill Simmons]

So the guy who recognizes Zell but doesn't recognize him right away and then follows him on the sidewalk.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Was also the gardener at the beginning of Bad News Bears breaking training.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Who was like, what's up with Marathon man and Bad News Bears breaking training in bad.

[Bill Simmons]

They use him. He's like basically the special needs gardener, and they pretend he's the coach. And Kelly Lake teaches him.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How to say hello. How are you?

[Van Lathan]

Want to do Bad News Bears breaking training?

[Bill Simmons]

I just can't. But I love that movie, and I can't believe I missed it.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that The Astro World one?

[Bill Simmons]

Astrodome.

[Chris Ryan]

Astrodome one.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Kelly Lee drives. He's 13.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

That was controversial. Bad News Bears, when they went to Astro.

[Van Lathan]

When Travis Scott takes over, they lose.

[Chris Ryan]

A couple of the kids.

[Bill Simmons]

Kelly Lee drives the van to the Astrodome.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. They go play.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They play against the Houston Toros.

[Chris Ryan]

The Houston Toros. Yeah. And then there's another one where they play against a Japanese team.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't talk about that. That's the sequel. We don't discuss Deon. Waiter's a word.

[Van Lathan]

It's Sam Phillips.

[Chris Ryan]

It's Sam Phillips. Without a doubt. That's easy. Or there's only one more person. The Chester A. Arthur truck driver.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Jerry. Jerry. Yeah. Jerry comes in, played by Joe Zaloom.

[Chris Ryan]

Cooks for a little bit, solves a riddle, gets the fuck out of Dodge.

[Bill Simmons]

We did. I already did my recasting couch of Annabel Siora in the Calling Camp with some history with John McCl, that if Joe Pantoliano is in here as Walter Cobb. I'm not. I'm not going to argue.

[Van Lathan]

Or like as the. I mean, Graham Green's really in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not going to argue. This is like peak Joey pants. I feel like we could have snuck him in somewhere. But him as Walter Cobb just getting mad at McLean and calling him a drunk. I don't think the movie's worse.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. What do you have for recasting? I was thinking more about City. Could this have been in any other city?

[Bill Simmons]

Sam's just Alaska.

[Van Lathan]

Because la. It's just. You're just in traffic and you're dead. Simon wins. Simon says do the collateral drive of LAX to downtown.

[Chris Ryan]

You're done. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon says go to Eagle Rock. It's gonna take three hours. What?

[Van Lathan]

They're putting in a bike lane in Hollywood Boulevard.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm dead half ass. Internet research. So they were trying to make Die Hard 3 for a couple years and Bruce is just rejecting scripts left and right and especially because there'd been so many Die Hard ripoffs. But one of the scripts was called Troubleshooter, which had McClain fighting terrorists on a Caribbean cruise line.

[Chris Ryan]

Speed 2.

[Bill Simmons]

And Bruce Willis said, no thanks. Sounds too much like under siege. They repurpose it. Make it speed 2.

[Van Lathan]

Can I. Can I do a little number here? Because I. I was looking at IMDb.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, that's the. That Speed. Speed too.

[Bill Simmons]

It literally became Speed two.

[Van Lathan]

And one of the issues with them developing this at the time was that there were so many studios had so many scripts in development that were just Die Hard in a. You know, like that were just basically. So here are some of the ones that they had going at the time that some of them got made, some didn't. Sand Blast, which was Die Hard in a sandstorm. No. Safe Haven. Die Hard on Martha's Vineyard. Rosillo. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

Track down Die Hard in English in the English Channel tweet.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the Martha.

[Van Lathan]

Sand Blast. No, that. No, no. Safe Haven was Die Hard.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we make that now with Marcelo Rosillo is.

[Chris Ryan]

He's John McClain sports podcast there like.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanging out Martha's Vineyard.

[Chris Ryan]

He's on the Vineyard.

[Van Lathan]

Him and Chris Long go out for a really long night on Martha's Vineyard. They're hungover, and then it's like the fairies. They're not running. So track down is Die Hard in the English Channel Tunnel suspension. Die Hard on the George Washington Bridge. Platform and rig were both Die Hard on oil rig movies. High roller was Die Hard in Vegas, which is basically Con Air at the end, I guess, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but they never. Vegas was still sitting there in the 90s as a full action movie.

[Chris Ryan]

You could have done Die Hard, by.

[Bill Simmons]

The way, sitting there right now.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. What else? In contempt. Die Hard in a courthouse. He who dares Die Hard in the British Embassy in the United States.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like you're making these up.

[Van Lathan]

No, these are all from IMDb L4 Die Hard at the center for Disease Control. Those are like. And a bunch of Die Hard in hurricanes. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Keep the virus in. It's actually you got to kill the terrorists, but you got to keep the virus in.

[Bill Simmons]

They're going to release this if we don't stop them. Damn, man, that Martha's Vineyard one. What a great location for an action movie. There's no way in, no way out.

[Van Lathan]

Like, maybe Rossillo, like, over the course of the movie, he falls in love with, like, a yuppie girl who's only there for the summer.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Die Hard, Catalina is sitting there, too, driving around buggies. That's just like wedding at Catalina. Oh, my God. Such a pain in the ass to get there. And then it's just the island. You know, the screenwriter, Jonathan Hensley, was detained by the FBI because the Federal Gold Reserve stuff in this movie was so accurate that they thought he had, like, inside intel and actually brought him in for questioning.

[Chris Ryan]

What was his research? Where'd he get it from? Where'd he get his stuff?

[Bill Simmons]

He just said he read everything in the New York Times. Bruce Willis's sandwich board was blank.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Didn't want to take the chance.

[Bill Simmons]

They CGI'd it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they didn't want to pop around.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was offensive.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Van, how did they do the four gallon jug thing? Just want to see if you could do this right now.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I can't. The four gallon jug thing, I really don't know how you would do it.

[Van Lathan]

I told you I would die during that. I have no idea. Like, if the idea is that you can't subtract, you can't be off by a couple of ounces, then I wouldn't be Able to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

You take the three gallon jug, you pour all of it into the five gallon.

[Van Lathan]

So now there's three in there.

[Bill Simmons]

You take the three gallon jug again, you pour all of it into the five gallon jug, but only 2 of the gallons go. One gallon stays in.

[Van Lathan]

But how do you know you only got one gallon left?

[Bill Simmons]

So you keep that one gallon in the three gallon jug because you've. You've poured five of the six gallons into the five.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then you pour out the five gallon jug. You take the one gallon that's left in the three gallon jug, you pour that into the five gallon jug. So now that has. Then you do the three gallon, pour it in, you have four. That's actually pretty.

[Van Lathan]

That's pretty smart.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, well, how about this? Since it's so easy, what we'll do. Because I. Because you're talking your. Right now. That's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not talking my. I'm just saying it actually wasn't that hard. The other one, I think was way harder.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a room over there. Get Fanduel to fucking sponsor it. The Bill Simmons Jug Challenge for the Ringer Network. And I. I will take odds and we'll make bets about whether or not you can get this done.

[Van Lathan]

But we have to switch it up. Yeah, we switch up the numbers because he's. He's obviously nailed this out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But if you really feel like you can do this. I'm actually.

[Bill Simmons]

I already said I could. I already said how to do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Not. We'll figure out a different one. The Bill Simmons Jug Challenge.

[Bill Simmons]

You just want to do the Bill Simmons Jug Challenge. That's where that was all going. Apex Mountain? Bruce Willis.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Well, you could say that these couple years are.

[Bill Simmons]

But I don't know, man. I think there's a case that's right here.

[Chris Ryan]

Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you make a case. It's right here.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Okay. I mean, I want to hear the case.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so he's red hot as an actor.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then it dies down. Then he has pulp in 94 and this in 95. And that leads to the 12 Monkeys, Armageddon, Fifth Element Siege, Sixth Sense, whole nine yards.

[Chris Ryan]

This is his run.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he's kind of the number one call in 95 for anything with action or kind of cool. Anything.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, Hanks is. Like the Hanks has the Hanks corner.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think, Bruce, this is it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's the nugget.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he has. I think if you're making a movie, it's like, can we get Hanks? Can we get Bruce? Can we get Cruz? Those are the first three calls.

[Chris Ryan]

I see what you mean.

[Van Lathan]

And then Denzel's played fourth. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And when you talk about like culturally, the. Demi Moore.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Also like Demi Moore. This is right around when she got the 20 million for striptease.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it was 12.

[Bill Simmons]

But yeah, as a couple.

[Van Lathan]

Well, you just. Lakers valuation.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

As a couple. It's about as good as it gets.

[Van Lathan]

He's a huge, huge star.

[Bill Simmons]

Sam Jackson. I don't think so. But I also couldn't tell you when it was maybe Jackie Brown.

[Van Lathan]

No, I think it's later. I think it's this.

[Bill Simmons]

This area.

[Van Lathan]

This area doing Pulp and Die Hard.

[Bill Simmons]

With a. I still feel like it's like, how long is this guy gonna be up here? And then at some point that flipped. Yeah, he.

[Chris Ryan]

He's just done so many different types of movies. It would be difficult to pin down. Like when he was the most relevant and most at the peak of his powers because he maintained somewhere in the.

[Bill Simmons]

90S, though we can agree on that, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

But at some point he became like, oh, Sam Jackson just here now. And that's how it's going to be.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe. But you could then argue that it's.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, so maybe when he gets Star Wars.

[Chris Ryan]

That's 99.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's right around there.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Jeremy Irons probably winning the Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

Or Margin Call.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Harlem as a movie location?

[Chris Ryan]

No. What would you have Harlem as a movie location?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, in a movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I said that so quickly. And now what about Harlem Nights?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, not very well liked movie that I think has had a culturally a re.

[Chris Ryan]

Reckoning.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I get. I know. But it was a bomb when it came out.

[Chris Ryan]

So you got Harlem Nights, you got the Cotton Club, you got Hoodlum. These are all going to be black movies. You got. I don't know. I just wouldn't think about Harlem as a movie location. Die Hard with a Vengeance being.

[Van Lathan]

It's only like in Harlem briefly.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't think.

[Van Lathan]

What about movies set during the summer?

[Bill Simmons]

Like summer movie action movies maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

That needed the summer as part of what they were doing.

[Van Lathan]

Crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's fair. The Wall street school system.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain, never discussed before since Gold Reserve bond with teller. 100% for sure. 100%.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe the first and last time it's been mentioned. Mentioned in a film.

[Bill Simmons]

Colleen Camp. Who's your girl? The cigarette smoker. Sam.

[Van Lathan]

Sam Phillips.

[Bill Simmons]

Sam Phillips. All of Them cruiser Hanks for this.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I got a couple other Apex models. Go.

[Bill Simmons]

What's here?

[Chris Ryan]

Diehard sequels.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Chris Ryan]

John McClane Sidekicks.

[Van Lathan]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

So this is easily bigger than Val Johnson, bigger than Justin Long, who's the.

[Van Lathan]

Dude in two that helps him with the air traffic control. He barely has a partner in that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So John McClane Sakis. This is definitely an Apex Mountain of John McClain psychic.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz or Hanks? To me, Easy Cruise.

[Chris Ryan]

The running cruises.

[Van Lathan]

McLean. Yeah, I could also see Cruises as Simon.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, blonde Cruz. Ocr. Now we're talking ocr. Trying to do a German accent. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Say OCR one more time and then he's got a problem. Gigantic pause.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Bill Simmons jugs movie.

[Chris Ryan]

No, that's actually awesome.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So Cruz with the collateral hair where it just goes blonde, tries a German accent.

[Van Lathan]

Like Valkyrie. He tries it for like 10 minutes and then he's like, I forget it.

[Bill Simmons]

What thing would Cruise have learned how to do? He probably drive a dump truck.

[Van Lathan]

Learn how to do all the construction stuff. He's like, we don't need Targo. I can, I can do all that.

[Bill Simmons]

I've actually studied gold.

[Chris Ryan]

What if you drop the racial component?

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz is Zeus.

[Chris Ryan]

It's Cruz and Hanks together.

[Van Lathan]

Why drop the racial component? Why not have Cruz running an electronics store in Harlem? Just being like, hey, I'm the first gentrifier here.

[Chris Ryan]

I am. Yeah, I'm the guy. Like everybody knows him.

[Bill Simmons]

They love me here. Scorsese or Spielberg? I would say Scorsese.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Marty. New York City.

[Bill Simmons]

What role would Phil Hoffman have played?

[Van Lathan]

Simon. Yeah, good, good.

[Bill Simmons]

He'd also be good cop with a. With a.

[Van Lathan]

Or you could have done maybe the Graham Green part.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that would have been funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Pick a nuts. John, we mentioned everything being open at 7:45 in this neighborhood is a little. Little dicey. Zeus leaves the store, doesn't lock up nothing. Just leaves it open.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I mean it's not like that. I. I think he tries to get back to his store multiple times.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Never says at any point we hear about Holly times. We never hear Zeus stay over the next 15 hours. I left my store open.

[Chris Ryan]

He's also a staple in the community, so maybe they're not going to run.

[Van Lathan]

Doesn't he think his destroyed though?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he said those guys are. Oh, he does say that. Yeah, because he does actually he does.

[Bill Simmons]

Say that because feel like he'd be a little. Be on his mind a tiny bit more that his entire livelihood is about to.

[Chris Ryan]

Because he Stuck up from aan. And he says, what those guys are doing to my store right now. Yeah, he does that.

[Bill Simmons]

How did Simon know that McLean wore the sign?

[Van Lathan]

He's. It seems like they are watching them at any moment. Like he knows, like when they're in the van with the FBI.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he's what?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's looking at the NSA guy that they're like, are you still, you know, putting your glasses in your mouth?

[Bill Simmons]

Simon's playing in this whole thing. He's got a hundred people working for him because we see them all.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, a lot of dudes remember he's.

[Bill Simmons]

Got two football teams of people. People.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there like a Mike Vrabel meet. Meet the group moment in three months before the heist? Hey, guys. So you're asking Simon Gruber. So you guys are gonna do some kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

There's some kind of paramilitary organization or something?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they're all like mercenaries.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But you're asking just, just Simon Gruber have a Connor Stallions who's constantly on rooftops looking at McLean.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's like, well, the, the, the dudes in Yankee Stadium, he's like, Luther, you're gonna be, you're gonna do. Drive the truck with me and Bobby, you're gonna be over. You're gonna be in Harlem making sure McLean's gonna wear that sign.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like how? Or did they just put a camera there?

[Van Lathan]

My unanswerable question for this, which is tied directly to this, is how much many of these tasks did gruber reasonably expect McLean to complete and how did.

[Bill Simmons]

He know they were being completed?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, whatever he was doing, he was obviously keeping them busy until.

[Van Lathan]

But if they. The St. Ives thing up, was there even a bomb in the trash can?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, you know, at the end when they ask him, they go, there was never any bomb in the school. When he goes, I'm not a soldier, I'm not a monster.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

So I don't know how many.

[Van Lathan]

But he does blow up the train.

[Chris Ryan]

Blow up the train and the train.

[Van Lathan]

If it stayed on the train would have killed thousands or hundreds.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So I'm gonna go, maybe you were a monster. You're about to blow up 200 people.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. But he had to blow them up to achieve his goal because he needed to go in there. So, yeah, definitely a monster.

[Bill Simmons]

Though we mentioned the 480 dump trucks. Minor nitpick for me. I think movies fuck this up a lot. I just think McClane is just covered in blood in the air.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I had our main character, I think Blood is every.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's had sprains. Like, think about Marvin getting his brains all over. Like Sam Jackson's hair in Pulp Fiction, getting shot point blank. There's four Marvins in the elevator. Like, there's just. They shot him in the face all over John McQuaden.

[Van Lathan]

So let's take it a step further. If I bang my shin in the middle of the night, like, getting back into bed, I'm limping for like a day. They get a train derailment. They get shot. Zeus gets shot. They get splinters from a winch wire stuck in shoulders. They get trapped in a flood, then shot through a manhole cover. Flip a Mercedes traveling at high speed, fall halfway off a bridge onto a hard surface, and they're more or less like, walking around.

[Chris Ryan]

Excuse me.

[Bill Simmons]

And McClain gets hit in the head with a bottle.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This character, the John McClane character, is the same character from Unbreakable. That's him. And Unbreakable has to be because he is so fucked up. There's actually one scene where he's all fucked up, blood everywhere. And it's almost as if the water rejuvenates him because he takes the water.

[Bill Simmons]

He wipes the blood off, and then he's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

He's ready to go back in the game.

[Bill Simmons]

It's hungover. Just needs some ass.

[Chris Ryan]

I got a couple picking nits.

[Bill Simmons]

Go.

[Chris Ryan]

So McClain doesn't even think about taking the $12 billion.

[Van Lathan]

Right? Or even just being like, what's important is we each get a gold bar here, right?

[Chris Ryan]

So the gold bars are everywhere. He says, we'll make a deal. There's 12. Think about the stakes here. People are going to look at Van like he's an asshole, but I have to just put it out there. This is not like, hey, we got a suitcase full of a half a million for you. $200,000. It's 12 billion bucks. McLain Boy Scout, doesn't even think about it. Doesn't go, ah. Or even doesn't even tell Zeus or somebody else. They did offer us 12 billion.

[Bill Simmons]

It's happened in Marathon man last week.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hoffman just could have left with all the diamonds. He's like, nah, I'm too good for the diamonds.

[Van Lathan]

A diamond? Yeah, a diamond. That's two or three in your pocket.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus Christ.

[Chris Ryan]

Secondly, the henchmen that are in this are all 6 foot 4 German dudes with crew cuts.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's no way you're gonna believe that these guys are cops or guys.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Walsh this up when they all arrive.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And all these guys get off. And Simon gets off the truck is like, hey, there, partner. And it's like, why is there, like a fake German Texan man who's in charge of city services here? Like, who's gonna do all the, like, demolition work?

[Bill Simmons]

Simon was like, Sam Presti. Like, he liked length and athleticism.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of three and D guys. We didn't talk about the biggest pick and knit McLean, first of all, he drowns in the tunnel. But even if you're going to say he doesn't and the thing shoots him out, he gets shot up in the air. Who's driving by? Zeus Carver coming back from Yankee Stadium.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, what's up?

[Bill Simmons]

Ridiculous. That's where, like, to me, that's the jump. The shark moment of this movie. You're like, all right, this is now getting stupid.

[Van Lathan]

I do for the same way that you were. You were talking about how you'd like to test yourself with the. The water jug thing. I do want to do the move that McLean does where he's like, take the anti lock brakes off.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a badass shot, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was good.

[Van Lathan]

And every time I see, I'm like, yeah, man. Are anti lock brakes holding me back?

[Bill Simmons]

Last one is a big one. Did you have any more? No, no, Simon.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, just the German thing. Like, the second you hear a German accent, you're like, wait a second, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Simon's this mastermind.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Planned everything out meticulously and then just gives McLean the aspirin bottle that has the address of where he got the aspirin bottle.

[Van Lathan]

Well, also, how did Simon think he was going to get away with all the dumpsters being full of, like, metal pieces on Targo?

[Bill Simmons]

Just wouldn't be like, sorry about your headache, John.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Tells him to keep the bottle. Basically tells him, hey, there's the bottle. Why don't you check it out?

[Bill Simmons]

It's like he wanted to get caught. Yeah, yeah, Maybe Sequel, Prequel, Prestige, tbr. Black Cast are Untouchable, where they did multiple sequels.

[Chris Ryan]

You guys didn't like Live Free or Die Hard? Not even a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

I thought Oliphant's getting it.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought it was. I thought it was fine. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If I'm on an airplane and I don't have a lot of choices, maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Hacking is a good Die Hard thing.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Saw it in theaters.

[Van Lathan]

Me too.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I did too. I sought the day of the NBA draft.

[Van Lathan]

What a day for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I was trying to get ready to write the running diary needed. Went to like an 11 o' clock Die Hard 4 at the Grove to kind of take my mind off it. And was disappointed. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson. No. Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley and the Firm gotta.

[Van Lathan]

Do one more DB before the. You know. As we end the NBA season. And I. I fucked up by never mentioning that earlier in the playoffs she said, Bonjour, Mr. Hartenstein. So I would probably go D.B. sing O. Feederson Gruber.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon Gruber. Just a mastermind.

[Van Lathan]

You've played through headaches.

[Bill Simmons]

But we see you. He sees the whole city as a launching pad. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Man?

[Van Lathan]

McTiernan.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Direction.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there an Irons case?

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn't do enough.

[Van Lathan]

Out of curiosity.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really good.

[Van Lathan]

What was this Oscars year like?

[Bill Simmons]

No chance for anything.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Bill Simmons]

95 was rough. Unanswerable questions. What's the next day like with the newspaper coverage? What's the lead story? Explosion.

[Van Lathan]

That's a fucking awesome question.

[Bill Simmons]

Subway explosion. The water thing.

[Van Lathan]

Can we be specific about. How does the New York Post cover? Times covers it.

[Bill Simmons]

So you have New York's under attack. What are the headlines?

[Chris Ryan]

You have multiple explosions. You have the flood. You have McClain himself. Then you have somebody getting cut in half on a boat.

[Bill Simmons]

You have a boat blowing up. You have three things blowing up.

[Van Lathan]

Because a lot of stuff doesn't quite happen. I think the number one story is the subway crash number Subway crash is on the front page in the.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's almost a New York under attack kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

Because the bombs in the school. Madman in a school is a fucking crazy story.

[Van Lathan]

But they didn't. You know what I mean? Like, it's like it's. It's an almost.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it is. It's a part of the narrative. Then Simon dies. So they get. They got his face on the deal. This is the mastermind of the New York.

[Van Lathan]

It would have been cool if Simon had made it a multi day thing. So that we could have had New York Post. Simon says headlines every day.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon says the headlines could have been like an eight day thing. And then the other thing I was thinking was 1994, which was an amazing time in New York City. Because you had the Rangers, you had the Knicks, you had the heyday of Mike and the dog. And then you have Die Hard filming in New York. Probably Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, you're skipping 1994, very important question. How do Mike and the dog react to this?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so that was my third thing.

[Van Lathan]

If this is really New York City city, what is the next day? Mike and the dog.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so is it 1995, Mike and the dog, or 1994?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it we have because they're filming this in 94, but I, I, because the movie came out in May 95, we have to assume it happened in May 95. So the Knicks are in the playoffs, and I think dog's like, Mike, we gotta talk about what's going on in New York City later. But first game three, Nick's paces. Let's talk about what, what does Huey got to do? Later on, we're gonna talk about how things blowing up. Mike's name is a huge day to New York.

[Van Lathan]

Just went to Bonwit last week.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I, I went to Bonwit Tella three weeks ago. It's staple of the city, but driving through Central park dog is just crazy. I just can't believe they did that. Yeah. I think they get to in the second hour, take some calls. Yeah, yeah. And then we gotta talk Rangers. Mike.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

[Chris Ryan]

I want her knife.

[Van Lathan]

The scythe.

[Chris Ryan]

The little scythe that she has.

[Bill Simmons]

That's good.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought I wanted a gold bar, but it's gonna be a fake gold bar. How much is one of those gold bars worth?

[Bill Simmons]

I'd want one of the bricks. Like a game used die hard gold brick, bricked up, movie used.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, how much? How much would one actual gold bar like that for real? Like, how much?

[Bill Simmons]

So apparently they're £25, but how much is it worth? A £25 depends on the price of gold.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. At any given moment, just.

[Chris Ryan]

I know, I understand financial, but like, what's the ball?

[Bill Simmons]

It would depend on gold by the pound. So what is it by the pound? If it's like a hundred dollars by the pound, then that's the price. So it's a brick. They always say buy gold, say go. Gold never goes down. I can't figure this out. Okay, I'm sure somebody will email us.

[Van Lathan]

It's $108 by the gram today.

[Chris Ryan]

By the gram.

[Van Lathan]

$3,300 by the ounce.

[Bill Simmons]

By the $3,300 by the ounce.

[Chris Ryan]

So it said how many ounces in a pound? Fucking math.

[Van Lathan]

Gold price per ounce? $3,367 right now.

[Bill Simmons]

So each brick was like over a hundred thousand dollars?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at you, Jugs Coach Finstock award for best life lesson. What do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

If we can beat racism, we can beat Europe. They work together, they beat racism, and then they beat the Germans, just like we did in 44, baby.

[Bill Simmons]

I love it. I was gonna say, just don't count out the divorced alcoholics in your life. You never know when you're gonna surprise you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I was going to say, for the piece of memorabilia that I would want is the packaged shirt they hand John McLean at the police station to be like, here, you got to put something else on. And then I would wear that shirt for my entire alcoholic era of podcasting.

[Bill Simmons]

If. If the sandwich board was. Was in.

[Chris Ryan]

Get the fuck out of here. I don't want to have to defend.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

When you're at somebody's house and they're like, like, yo, I have the sandwich board. Do you want it?

[Chris Ryan]

You know what's funny is all the random.

[Van Lathan]

You know, if he wore that in Boston, people would be like, hey, man, how's it going? Can I get one of those?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Where'd you get that at?

[Bill Simmons]

Would you want the blank sandwich board?

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, I don't want the blank sandwich board.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty good artifact from the 90s movies. I would have wanted either. Best double feature choice. I'm gonna go with Die Hard. Okay, go Die Hard. Right. To Die Hard three.

[Van Lathan]

That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Skip Die Hard two, which is kind of in its own universe. You know what I got under siege.

[Chris Ryan]

I got the siege.

[Van Lathan]

Oh. Because it's another New York, New York.

[Chris Ryan]

All whatever with Bruce Willis, who kind of starts off like he's going to be the hero in that.

[Bill Simmons]

I still haven't decided whether I like that movie. And it came out, like almost 30 years ago.

[Chris Ryan]

Every time I look at it, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Might have to watch it again. Yeah, my dad's here all weekend. Maybe I'll make him.

[Chris Ryan]

He gets better every time I look at it.

[Van Lathan]

It's really good Denzel, though, and it's really good Willis.

[Chris Ryan]

Like a off kilter kind of Annette Binning.

[Van Lathan]

I would probably. I'll just go Pulp Fiction.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna say Sam Jackson.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I think I had Sam as well.

[Van Lathan]

It's the breath of fresh air that the franchise needed. It's one of those rare are moments when you can tell. I don't know if this is literally true, but at least on screen, you can tell that the star is happy to share the screen with the person and is like, you. You got this scene. Like, you can. You can make, you can make fun of me. You can like make me look stupid, you can make me look small minded or whatever. I, I love acting with you and I think he just gives this movie a new life.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm gonna go Willis. It's just hard to beat the character of a, of John McLean.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Sam Jackson wins because Pulp Fiction no longer becomes a fluke.

[Chris Ryan]

I see what you mean.

[Bill Simmons]

He is now there. He can help carry a major, major movie and now the rest of his career falls into place and the movie stands the test of time. People love it. Like CR was at what, what theater on Sunday. How many people?

[Van Lathan]

Pax House.

[Bill Simmons]

People loving it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. On a Sunday night.

[Chris Ryan]

Have, have you guys done. Have we done the last Boy Scout?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, that was left handed throw is tough. Don't know why they had to sink that in. Let me ask you what is more intriguing to you? Florida Keys month or New Orleans month?

[Van Lathan]

What do we got for the Keys?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, what's in there?

[Bill Simmons]

Out of time.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, shit. Out of Time. Is that.

[Van Lathan]

What's the Hackman movie?

[Bill Simmons]

When I say I've been scouting out of time. It's like the fucking Mavericks studying Cooper flag tape at this point. Like it's going to happen this summer. Just telling you here's the only thing.

[Chris Ryan]

About New Orleans month versus Florida Keys month. It really comes down to, in my opinion, a battle between Angel Heart and Out of Time. And like which movie do you want to do more? And that is a tough decision to make. An Angel Heart movies.

[Bill Simmons]

The New Orleans has Heaven's Prisoner, Fucking Unhinged. It's on the list.

[Chris Ryan]

Heaven's Prisoners, Angel Heart.

[Bill Simmons]

What are the other two New Orleans movies? Big Easy.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I would say we should do.

[Van Lathan]

Can I throw a Florida Keys?

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do it Again.

[Van Lathan]

But have you ever watched let's Do It Again?

[Chris Ryan]

What movie? Let's Do It Again.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, let's do it again.

[Chris Ryan]

Uptown Saturday Night with Bill Cosby and.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you're going way back.

[Chris Ryan]

And then let's do it again with.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Tightrope with Clint Eastwood?

[Chris Ryan]

Tightrope with Clint Eastwood going through the.

[Bill Simmons]

French Quarter looking for. Oh yeah, looking for a sexual assaulter and kind of gets pulled in too deep. He's getting into the dark side.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe we should do Into Deep month into deep.

[Bill Simmons]

Crossing the Line.

[Van Lathan]

Crossing the Line.

[Bill Simmons]

Tightrope's a good one. Yeah, he's like, you know what? I kind of, kind of like the dark side of the French quarter.

[Chris Ryan]

We could re.8 millimeter.

[Van Lathan]

Well, that would be a good Time to do the Remy Vice.

[Bill Simmons]

We're doing that live in.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my favorite Florida Keys, I think is Night Loops, which is about Hackman plays an ex football player turned private eye.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Who has to go search for the teenage daughter of a B movie actress in the Keys.

[Bill Simmons]

Wild Things is Keys too, Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Wild Things is Keys. Wait, Wild Things might just be Miami.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's the Keys.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it?

[Van Lathan]

We could do South Florida. We could do South Florida month and get Scarface in finally.

[Bill Simmons]

South Florida Month.

[Chris Ryan]

South Florida month would be Scarface. Wild Things Miami.

[Bill Simmons]

South Florida Month.

[Chris Ryan]

South Florida Month. Yeah. Scarface Wild Things.

[Bill Simmons]

That gets a little more interesting. I feel like the Keys are the most underrated movie location movie, tv. What was that. What was that Netflix show Bloodline. Really use the Keys. Nice.

[Van Lathan]

Good first season. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I just can't think of that many movies that are set in the Keys that like. Besides as the ones.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm upset that New Orleans hasn't been in more movies.

[Van Lathan]

Like, it stands in for everything there. Shoot so much there.

[Chris Ryan]

But there's a ton that we're. We're forgetting. There's obviously the movie the Big Easy. Did you like that movie?

[Van Lathan]

What's the.

[Bill Simmons]

I did, but it hasn't aged great.

[Van Lathan]

What's the. Alex.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty dated. The Heavens Prison is a classic.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So, I mean, there's. There's. There's films on it. We just. We're not. We're not thinking about them. And then there are a lot of movies.

[Bill Simmons]

I knew you'd be here. Rob Shot.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, can I tell you something about that? That movie is the movie where I realized that it wasn't quite going to happen for Alec Baldwin.

[Van Lathan]

Is Angel Heart New Orleans.

[Chris Ryan]

It is.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on. CR.

[Van Lathan]

That's what I thought.

[Chris Ryan]

Louis Cypher.

[Bill Simmons]

Because Heaven, that's the movie that gets the rewatch. Was canceled from Spotify. They're like, we'd no longer like to be associated.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I be real? When you go back and you look at that movie, there was a lot of scandal around it during that time. It ages, actually. Better than some of the other films that. I mean, obviously she's doing wild shit in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Cliff Huxtable's daughter being in that movie was the single craziest thing that happened in the 1980s. I would put it against anything else that happened in the 80s.

[Chris Ryan]

It was a conversation.

[Bill Simmons]

You can't even understand what that was.

[Chris Ryan]

Like. My mother was like, what is that girl doing? Because the movie was set in New Orleans. It was a big deal. Like, did my mother was like, what is that girl doing? Like, because it was like Angel Heart was a devil worshiping movie and stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Bill Simmons]

That was America's Family.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Still can't believe it. You could also do, like, just hearing rumors about, oh, there's a big sex scene in this movie. It's like with Lisa Bonet covered in blood. And then you go to the movie and you actually see it and you're like.

[Van Lathan]

I just.

[Chris Ryan]

You could also do controversy month. Movies that went crazy with really controversial films. Really controversial films.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It could almost be like, holy fuck, this was a big deal month.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Angel Heart was one of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, then there was the whole thing with Angel Heart about whether they actually had sex or not.

[Chris Ryan]

Whether or not they were actually fun.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be a good month. Did they actually have sex or not?

[Van Lathan]

Don't look.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Monsters Ball. Where there is some talk. There's some talk. There's talk.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't look now with Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland. That was a famous one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Last angle in Paris. Was there a talk?

[Bill Simmons]

Can't remember that one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that one was problematic. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that became a problematic one later. There's been. There's been. Over the years, there's been. There was one where the couple. Oh, Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger in the Getaway.

[Chris Ryan]

And they go, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe they. Yeah, maybe they took some liberties.

[Chris Ryan]

See, this is my thing with Alec Baldwin. I don't know. I know we gotta wrap up, but all of these movies mean something to me. The Getaway, I loved Heaven's Prisoners. I loved. I like these movies, but people just. They weren't with him. Like, it just wasn't.

[Van Lathan]

I think they were.

[Bill Simmons]

Alec was like, lurking in there.

[Van Lathan]

Voices.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, he talked his way out of Jack Ryan. It's not like they were like, yo, this hunt for October we gotta get.

[Bill Simmons]

Where'd he stand on the Mexican?

[Chris Ryan]

The Brad Pitt one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Julia Roberts. Gandolfini.

[Chris Ryan]

Saw it once or twice. Don't really have a room.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not very good. But Gandolfini is great in that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Gandalfini was just great for the entire 90s. And nobody was kind of on it.

[Chris Ryan]

Get Shorty.

[Bill Simmons]

True romance, 8 millimeter.

[Van Lathan]

He was so demented into romance.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. But, like, he was, like, fantastic. And then once again kind of gets to that point and I don't know, it doesn't happen as much anymore to me where by the time Tony Soprano comes around, you go, oh, so it's his turn now. They're finally giving him something right. Good.

[Bill Simmons]

Watched Swingers with my wife and my daughter and her boyfriend who was in town. And it was. My wife was insisting that they would like it and was like, all right, they're not going to like it. We watched it. They both loved it.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, that's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Swingers still like really solid movies. Almost 30 years old. We did it on the rewatch. It was a million years ago, but I was, like, surprised how much they liked it. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You never know what's going to age and not age.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I wonder if they would, like, Go, for instance.

[Chris Ryan]

Go.

[Bill Simmons]

We let go.

[Van Lathan]

We let go.

[Chris Ryan]

Love Swingers. But I always think about the scene where Favreau's character calls that girl, like, 90 times.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what. They were going nuts. What a loser he was.

[Chris Ryan]

And that. That. That is so tough to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

He has, like, three or four scenes in that movie. Like, my daughter was like, oh, my God, what's wrong with this guy? But she kind of liked it. But it's a really fun snapshot of la, even as the years pass and LA has changed since we've even been here.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just what LA was like back then. Pre Internet.

[Chris Ryan]

Last thing I'll say. There's no defining piece of whatever of LA culture, like, now. And that's what some of these things kind of miss. During that time, it was like, oh, my God, I want to go to LA. Because it's. I mean, there's Beverly Hills 90210. There's Melrose Place. There's Swingers, there's even Entourage, and then Entourage.

[Bill Simmons]

There's indie movies Happening.

[Chris Ryan]

Generation. And now cities having personalities like that, that everything's so homogeneous. It's kind of like, doesn't exist. Unless I'm missing some stuff.

[Van Lathan]

No, I mean, I think the last big LA thing was probably insecure.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, I hope Joanna.

[Chris Ryan]

Insecure is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Hopefully Joanna didn't hear that because we're trying to convince her to move to la. I mean, LA is great. It's so cool here. There's so many different awesome podcasts.

[Chris Ryan]

It's very politically active.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really a special place.

[Chris Ryan]

They got great cats here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I liked your point about Die Hard With a vengeance just ending 30 minutes in because somebody couldn't have gotten from Manhattan beach to Brentwood.

[Chris Ryan]

Boom.

[Bill Simmons]

Fuck. How do I get to Brentwood? 405's clogged. All right, Chris Ryan. Thank you, Van Lathan. Thank you, Jack Sanders. Is your mic on or. No, it is what was your take on Die Hard With a vengeance?

[Van Lathan]

I think when Bruce Willis found out that Sam Jackson was going to be his co star in this film, it was the closest any person on the planet, planet Earth, has felt to the moment when LeBron James found out the Cavs traded for Kevin Love.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, wow.

[Van Lathan]

Look at Jack.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack.

[Van Lathan]

I just think, like, this is my favorite Die Hard. I think it's better than the original one, personally, even though I think there are plenty of nicks to pit or. But when Sam Jackson shows up in the beginning of the movie, you're. You're locked in. He's. He elevates the movie so much. Call 91 1. It's amazing. About to get killed.

[Chris Ryan]

Call, tell them, somebody get down here. Somebody's about to get killed.

[Bill Simmons]

I was afraid to even go to Jack after the Mets got annihilated by the Braves. I didn't know what kind of money was, but I thought that was pretty cool.

[Van Lathan]

It's a long season.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, guys, great seeing you. Great seeing you.