‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Summary

Episode Summary: "Heaven Can Wait" with Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Hosted by Bill Simmons and featuring Chris Ryan and Van Lathan, this episode marks the finale of "Big 70s Month" on The Ringer's film podcast, The Rewatchables. The trio delves deep into the 1978 Warren Beatty classic "Heaven Can Wait," exploring its themes, performances, and enduring legacy.

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1. Introduction to "Heaven Can Wait"

Bill Simmons opens the episode by expressing enthusiasm for discussing "Heaven Can Wait," describing it as a quintessential Warren Beatty film. As the final installment of Big 70s Month, the hosts set the stage for an in-depth exploration of this metaphysical screwball comedy.

2. Plot Overview and Initial Impressions

Chris Ryan shares his childhood fondness for the movie, noting, "It was on all the time when I was a kid...just like a delightful, whimsical, metaphysical heaven movie" (03:21). Both Chris and Van Lathan admit they initially underestimated the film's critical and commercial success, reflecting on how their youthful perception differed from its actual acclaim.

3. Warren Beatty's Multifaceted Performance

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Warren Beatty's portrayal of multiple characters—Joe Pendleton, Leo Farnsworth, and Tom Jarrett. Van Lathan praises Beatty's blend of star power and nuanced acting, likening his presence to icons like Frank Sinatra and Cary Grant:

"Warren Beatty is just like a movie star who knows exactly what he is. He's putting in all his cred and energy into making this light, sweet comedy." (03:58)

Chris highlights Beatty's ability to seamlessly transition between personas:

"He pulls off all the football stuff, but he’s legitimelly one of the hunkiest, dreamiest, best-looking guys ever... plays it so goofily and with so much heart." (06:16)

4. Influences and Stylistic Elements

Van Lathan draws parallels between "Heaven Can Wait" and classic 30s/40s screwball comedies like "The Philadelphia Story" and "His Girl Friday," emphasizing the film's homage to earlier comedic styles. The hosts appreciate how Beatty infuses these influences into a modern (for its time) narrative.

5. Themes: Soul, Identity, and Love

The conversation delves into the film's deeper themes, such as the essence of the soul versus the physical body, and the transformative power of love. Chris muses:

"This entire movie is happening because the backup quarterback has been promised the starting role, and he cannot get over that. He's willing to come back from the dead and finds love along the way." (18:40)

They explore whether the film's premise serves as a critique of materialism and the relentless pursuit of personal dreams, ultimately celebrating human compassion and connection.

6. Most Rewatchable Scenes

The hosts share their favorite moments, highlighting both comedic and poignant scenes:

• Bill Simmons: Favors the film's concluding act, particularly the football practice montage and the emotional finale where Joe Pendleton's presence culminates in a Super Bowl victory before his untimely demise.

  "The last 40 minutes are just like lights out. It's the best movie I've ever seen." (18:15)

• Chris Ryan: Loves the scene where Max convinces Joe of his true identity, finding it both delightful and heart-wrenching.

  "There are small things in the movie that make this character one of the most lovable characters on screen." (18:32)

• Van Lathan: Enjoys the training montages and the interactions between Beatty and Charles Grodin, especially their on-set dynamics.

7. What Aged Well vs. What Aged Poorly

The trio discusses elements that have stood the test of time and those that feel dated:

• Aged Well:

  • Performances: Beatty's and Grodin's acting remains compelling.
  • Themes: The exploration of identity and the afterlife continues to resonate.
  • Humor: The screwball comedy elements still elicit genuine laughs.

• Aged Poorly:

  • Cultural Depictions: References to 70s football culture feel antiquated compared to modern portrayals.
  • Gender Roles: Julie Christie's character dynamics might seem limited or stereotypical to contemporary audiences.
  • Special Effects and Setting: Some visual and set design choices are unmistakably of their time, which may not translate well today.

Chris points out:

"The minimalistic approach that Warren Beatty uses...very few people can do this." (04:07)

8. Critical Reception and Awards

"Heaven Can Wait" garnered nine Oscar nominations, a testament to its critical acclaim. The hosts reference Roger Ebert's three-star review, appreciating how the film balances humor with underlying social critiques. However, they also mention Pauline Kael's unfavorable opinion, labeling the film as "image conscious celebrity moviemaking."

9. Potential Sequels and Alternate Universes

Imagining alternate scenarios, the hosts entertain ideas for sequels or reimaginings:

• Horror Interpretation: Chris suggests viewing the film as a horror story, with celestial beings tormenting Joe Pendleton.

  "You could look at this entire movie as a horror movie if you want. Because... this shit is kind of fucked up." (77:06)

• Modern Adaptations: They contemplate how a remake might differ, incorporating today's cultural and technological landscape, such as social media's impact on the story.

10. Host Banter and Personal Insights

Throughout the episode, Bill, Chris, and Van engage in lighthearted banter, sharing personal anecdotes and humorous observations. They reflect on Warren Beatty's celebrity lifestyle, Julie Christie's career trajectory, and their own connections to classic cinema.

11. Categories and Awards Segment

In their signature "categories" segment, the hosts create humorous awards related to "Heaven Can Wait":

• The Sasha Jenkins Award: For the actor you can't believe didn't become a bigger star. Possible nominees include Charles Grodin and Diane Keaton.

• The Amanda Dobbins Award: For the best piece of real estate, awarding Leo Farnsworth's mansion.

• The Weakest Link: They unanimously decide that multiple characters, including the incompetent backup quarterbacks, deserve this dubious honor.

12. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Bill acknowledges the podcast's dynamic and teases future content, maintaining the engaging and conversational tone that listeners appreciate. They reflect on the enduring charm of "Heaven Can Wait" and its place within the pantheon of 70s cinema.

"We will be back next week and it won't be a Saturday. Thanks." (114:31)

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Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons (04:07): "I like his theory on stardom. Sometimes you just have to let the camera cheer you up and just be handsome."

• Chris Ryan (18:32): "Mr. F. But he's got his entire world back. This is all he wants to do."

• Van Lathan (53:03): "What is iconic like that one scene."

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Conclusion

"Heaven Can Wait" serves as a nostalgic yet insightful exploration of 70s filmmaking, star power, and storytelling. Through engaging discussion, the hosts uncover layers of the film that both celebrate and critique its era, offering listeners a comprehensive and entertaining rewatch experience.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

The Rewatchables is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed. Like, I'm talking about ordering a book on 70s film lighting. Is that you, C.R.

[Van Lathan]

It'S me.

[Bill Simmons]

How many lighting books do you have?

[Van Lathan]

I'm the guy leaving all those reviews.

[Bill Simmons]

Saying five stars or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Well, you're kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime, follow your obsession, wherever it goes. We are here to talk about Heaven Can Wait. It is the last episode of Big 70s Month. Van Lathan is here. Pew, pew.

[CR]

There you go, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

CR Is here.

[Van Lathan]

Starting my new narrative podcast called Warren Beatty's Body Count.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't wait to get into that. Have you been on every episode of 70s month? I have.

[Van Lathan]

Super 70s month.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, you did the sweep. Can't wait to talk about this. I'm Bill Simmons. Heaven, Kuwait is next. A man who went to heaven before his time. I'm not supposed to be here. Well, you guys made a mistake and came back to life in the body of another man.

[CR]

That's me.

[Bill Simmons]

Inwardly, you haven't changed. You're still Joe Pendleton. That's what you and I see. But outwardly you're Leo Francis and that's.

[CR]

What everyone else will see.

[Bill Simmons]

Warren Beatty. Julie Christie. Heaven Can Wait. Rated pg. This episode is brought to you by Doom the Dark Ages. ID Software presents Doom the Dark Ages. A dark fantasy sci fi shooter that delivers searing combat and over the top visuals in an epic cinematic story worthy of the Doom Slayer's legend. Dominate demon infested battlefields with bone crushing tools of mayhem. Take flight atop the fierce Mecha dragon. Or pummel enemies in a 30 story Atlan Mechanical stand and fight on Xbox series X&S, PlayStation 5 and PC. Available now. Rated M for mature. This episode is brought to you by new Pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste. One thing we all try to do to stay healthy is to keep up a routine. Things like daily yoga or trying to maintain a healthy diet. So how about making oral health part of your day? Fresh your teeth twice daily with Pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength for three times stronger enamel protection. And to help protect teeth for life, try new Pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste right now. All right. Heaven Can Wait. Our first Warren Beatty movie. You said this was one of your favorite movies.

[CR]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

How come?

[CR]

It was on all the time when I was a kid and you know, looking back at it and doing some research on the movie, didn't have any idea that it was taken as seriously as what it was like, a real critical and commercial hit. But it was kind of just like a delightful, whimsical, metaphysical heaven movie, which they had a lot of back then. There was this one, There was the Heavenly Kid. There was oh, God and old God. Book 2. A lot of movies that dealt with death and angels and God and stuff, they don't really do that much of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh. Culminating in highway to Heaven with Michael Landon.

[CR]

Highway to Heaven with Michael Landon, which is a whole cultural phenomenon. But this is one of my favorite movies when I was a kid.

[Van Lathan]

Really, really amazing screwball comedy. Watching it again this time, it was just so great to see how the Bones of the Philadelphia Story and hersgirl Friday and kind of all the great comedies from the 30s and 40s informed this. And, you know, with all the people involved, it's sort of amazing to look at Warren Beatty and think about how famous he was and how he put all of his cred and energy into making this, which is essentially like this really light, sweet comedy.

[Bill Simmons]

I like his theory on. He's another one of those guys who put a lot of thought into stardom. And sometimes you just have to let the camera cheer you up and just be handsome.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And talk in a low voice and just stare at a woman and just keep staring and they stare back and then you stare some more and you just seem like a movie star. Very few people can do this. I think Brad Pitt can do this now. I think that was a big part.

[Van Lathan]

Of the minimalist approach once upon a time in Hollywood.

[Bill Simmons]

He's basically doing that with Cliff. But very few people. I mean, who can do it now who's under 40?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I think also the way the movies are made and written and produced, like, demands a lot more. There's. I mean, there's a lot of exposition in this movie, but actors are required to do so many different things now. It's. It's crazy. It's like, I guess you could say, like, he's a convincing LA Rams quarterback in this movie.

[CR]

But what he really is, life throws a good football.

[Van Lathan]

He's a convincing LA rich guy and he's a convincing LA playboy. And he's a convincing, like. It's like he just has this, like, star power at the center of this movie. And the movie is actually just like a temple built to that.

[CR]

He's also a convincing everyman playing with different dudes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[CR]

Which you have to be Able to charisma yourself in and out of that as well. There's just not a lot of guys out there or stars out there. We look at movies, I think in a different way now that you could give them a movie and go, if you're good in this, the movie works and if you're bad in it, it doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's the Burt Reynolds. And Burt Reynolds is probably somebody else who could have tried to play this role. I don't know if he pulls off the rich part of it the same way, the Leo Pendleton. He pulls off all the football stuff. But I think what was so interesting about Warren Beatty is that he could be Leo Pendleton and it's believable that he's also Tom Jarrett or Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Joe Pendleton and Leo Pendleton.

[Bill Simmons]

Leo Farnsworth. I'm getting my Joe and Leos. Yeah, be Joe Pendleton, Leo Farnsworth and then just step into the super bowl quarterback at the end.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I believe all three things. I mean, I also would have believed him as an. As a German race car driver. I could have spent five more minutes with that. Maybe he could have driven the car.

[CR]

He didn't like the guy because he didn't speak English.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. 70s didn't really like Germans that much.

[CR]

Still hadn't got over it. But Burt Reynolds is interesting because you dial. Obviously the football stuff would be amazing, right?

[Bill Simmons]

He'd almost be too good.

[CR]

Almost be too good at the football stuff. Like he was in a long shard. But Warren Beatty de pretties himself in this movie. Like he seems. He's like legitimately one of the hunkiest, dreamiest, best looking guys ever. But he plays it so goofily and with so much heart that you believe that he is the dude that is on the outside of everything, that is glitzy and glamoury and full of money.

[Bill Simmons]

I read the book again, which I really liked when it came out. Peter Biskin's biography of him in 2010, which is very pre 2. There's a lot of sex stuff in there that I now think would be written differently.

[CR]

Pre 2.

[Bill Simmons]

Pre 2.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't know that was a phrase.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I just made it up.

[Van Lathan]

Did you really?

[CR]

Just on the cuff just now?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's up there with the basketball pyramid.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[CR]

I gotta be honest with you. Look, I am anti dick riding and I never will do it.

[Bill Simmons]

You just made that up.

[CR]

But I don't. That's not a thing that I do. But I would be remiss if I didn't Give you props if you just made that up. Now, if I read this in Vanity Fair somewhere or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Pre 2 is like a vulture piece.

[CR]

But if you just made it up, I gotta give it up. That. That's pretty.

[Van Lathan]

That could be a category. Pre two thing about this.

[CR]

Oh, we gotta add it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, all these stories in there, it's like, yeah, six times a day. And he'd get tired of somebody. It's just stuff like you wouldn't write about it as. Oh, this is one of the things about. Made Warren Beatty so interesting. Yeah, he had sex with a lot of women and then he wouldn't call them back or he'd get bored of somebody. But apparently, by all accounts, just. Just got it done. Just a swordsman.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's what Shampoo is basically about.

[Bill Simmons]

A sword. There's a part in the book about he was such a reputation as a swordsman that he felt like a pressure for it because he felt like when he was with a woman, they were expecting, you know, a Dirk Digger type experience. He said, I'm just a normal guy. But he would, you know, take these different vitamins to try to have more energy and just trying to keep up the legend. I mean, he was with. He's even with Madonna. Remember, he showed up at the Truth or Dare documentary?

[CR]

So when I'm first getting an idea of who Warren Beatty is, it's. He. He's dating Madonna. She's the biggest thing in the world. It's Heaven Can Wait. And it's a little while after that. It's about Star.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Dick Tracy and then Bugsy. That was his last run.

[CR]

And then Bugsy becomes such a huge deal. And it doesn't land with a thud, but it doesn't land like he wanted it to.

[Bill Simmons]

But it had a lot of Oscar nominations. We always talk about it. That year. It was like a big Bugsy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it was a big Premiere Magazine movie. Yeah.

[CR]

Yeah. But then imagine being me. And you were introduced to Carrie Fisher and Warren Beatty in Star wars and in Dick Tracy and Heaven Can Wait. And then you see Shampoo. Shampoo blew my mind when I saw it.

[Van Lathan]

Shampoo's an incredible movie.

[CR]

Yeah. But just the adultness of it and how she was in the movie and how he was in the movie. I was like, oh. Then, you know, that's when people who have seen movies go, no, this guy was like. He was the guy of the town. Like, he was the Richard Gere of his era or something like that.

[Van Lathan]

I always think about him in relationship To Redford around this time period, because they're two very obviously famous movie stars who took real control over their careers, Whether as producers or director producers or what have you. And Redford, I think, for the most part, kind of set the tone for the kind of movie star, especially the great actors that we have now. Like a DiCaprio, say, for instance, where it seems like every time Leonardo DiCaprio works, he wants to push the ball forward. It's an important movie. Sometimes it's about. Most of the times, it's about an important issue. Right. But then there's, like, this era where Warren Beatty would make these big movies, and they were important, but they were also, like, pretty good times at the movies. Like, he was still remembering the entertainment value of, like, just hanging out with a group of people in Los Angeles for two hours. And I think that that's something that's sort of been lost. But Redford was also, like, a really big. I feel like Redford made issue movies. I feel like he made movies because he was like, this is an important film that everybody needs to see. Do you see kind of, like the comparison I'm making a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Newman was always trying to prove that he was more than what people thought he was. Warren Beatty was just like, I don't want to make a lot of money with this movie, or I want this to hit for me in a real way.

[CR]

Well, this kind of did both, I guess. To your point, I wonder if our appetites have changed to the point to where those issue movies that guys make now that, like, we can't have fun and be serious anymore.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

It doesn't seem like the screwball comedy is the type of movie that's gonna get, like, taken seriously by the critics or is gonna get you lauded in a way. You either have to go, look, it's me. It's Denis. We're in the desert. We're doing something. Or you have to decide, hey, you guys, come have some fun. I'm gonna go do a movie with the Farrelly brothers or with Adam McKinney.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And I don't know whether that's a good or bad. I think that times, like, if George Clooney made this movie 10 years ago, even. Even. Even 10 years ago, you could see it being in, like, a nice Amazon movie that you watch, like, randomly on a Friday night. And, like, oh, that was cool. This is a $100 million movie that got mad Oscar nominations.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Like, it was, like, the centerpiece of the filmmaking culture.

[Bill Simmons]

The other thing he did. He was always the star of the movie. He never fucked around. He's never like, I'll take this. I'll take the Matt Damon part in Ocean's Eleven. Like, he never would have done that. He would. He was always like, I'm going to be the guy in the movie. If there's a best looking woman in the movie, that's going to belong to me in the movie and I'm going to be the winner in the end. He also died in a lot of movies too, which he wasn't afraid to. Like Bonnie and Clyde. I mean, Bonnie and Clyde, it all takes off, that's 1967. And he rigs it so that he makes it. He ends up making a shitload of money from it. He does an Altman movie. He does Parallax, View, does Shampoo, does Heaven Can Wait, does Reds. He only makes, I mean, really like six, six real big movies in like a 14 year span.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's very particular. He was very deliberate.

[Bill Simmons]

He called out. Can we talk about what he turned down?

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

The Sundance Kid. Yeah. Michael Corleone, which would have been ridiculous. Later he turned down Gordon Gekko and Jack Horner.

[CR]

The Gekko role he should have took.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have been an amazing. I. The one, the one real regret he said he had was not doing Jack Horner. He really wished he had done that one. And there's apparently. I don't know how apocryphal this is that he was pushing to play Dirk Diggler.

[Van Lathan]

He was pushing it. Well, he was. For Boogie Nights.

[Bill Simmons]

For Boogie nights, yeah. And PTA was like, no, he's like a 17 year old kid. 58. Like you can't.

[CR]

Is it.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, here's how it works.

[Van Lathan]

He was also. He got pretty far down the road with playing Bill in Kill Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. He had that. He had the Sting, Great Gatsby. Superman was the original call for that. Splash. Big Dave, Indecent Proposal, which would have been great. And then Misery, which Goldman wrote about in his book. And Beat and Warren Beatty just didn't want to be in the bed for that long. He felt like he was like neutered in the bed. He couldn't do it.

[CR]

You know what? When you look at that. When you look at that list of movies that he turned down and then you look at some of the movies that he did and it's interesting why he would make some of the decisions. Like, maybe it's just because. Okay, so he does like Dick Tracy, which is like this big beautiful disaster, basically. Right. Well, A movie that means a lot to me. But the movie's kind of like all over the place or like, whatever. I love Dick Tracy, by the way, but like, to look at the script for Misery and then kind of not want to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he did want to do it. He just couldn't 100% get there because he kept circling back and then he's like, I don't know, in the bed. And he couldn't get past the crippling scene. Yeah, that was a big thing for him. He either wanted to be the hero or he wanted to have a violent death. But to play a guy who got crippled, just limping around, couldn't get his head around it. He also made three movies with Julie Christie. He made McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which was the Altman movie Shampoo. They broke up and then they did Heaven Can Wait. And they both dated different people after, but still had some sort of connection.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it seems like there's some really.

[Bill Simmons]

Good stories about them doing 80 takes of the same scene and them having a little cat and mouse game on the set.

[Van Lathan]

He's Proto Fincher and apparently made Jack Nicholson cry on Reds, where Jack Nicholson's just like, what the fuck do you want from me? And you know, like, Hackman, just do it again, Sierra.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, do it again, Sierra. Do it one more time. And not even getting notes.

[Van Lathan]

I just have to do Wayne Jenkins again.

[CR]

Over and over and over.

[Bill Simmons]

Got it right two times, maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think Beatty is faded a little bit in terms of like the star power or the. The level of attraction that these 70s films have? Like, I think that. I think that these are some of the great movies of the last 50, 60 years. Bonnie and Clyde, McCabe, Mrs. Miller, parallax. Parallax especially. But Shampoo and. And Heaven and Reds. But I feel. Feel like he's less kind of highly regarded than Redford and maybe even Hackman and Pacino and Dairo and the guys who come right immediately after him.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. I think it's because the movies didn't. I mean, this is the first rewatchables we've ever done for him. Think about that. We've done 17 Tom Cruise movies. We've done 11, 13 Pacino movies.

[Van Lathan]

We've done multiple David Caruso movies.

[Bill Simmons]

We've done 10 De Niro movies. I think some of them feel very 70sish or 60sish. It could be, actually. It'd be fun to do Bonnie and Clyde, but it's just, you know, that's so movie that really feels like it came out in the 1960s, but, you.

[CR]

Know, like, there are certain actors and actresses and even directors that are of their times.

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[CR]

And they have a more sensitive cultural expiration date than others do. So for whatever reason, also, this. Also. There was never an Unforgiven for him. There was never a movie that made everybody go, oh, my God, this guy was big in the 60s.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Huge in the 70s. And look what he can still do.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He's three years older than Pacino, but doesn't have, like, a movie like he. Or Son of a Son of a woman from the 90s that's like, oh, that's his six when he was in his late.

[Bill Simmons]

Shampoo is a crazy movie. I love Shampoo.

[Van Lathan]

Shampoo's incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a crazy movie, though. It would be interesting if you just threw this on for. I should make my daughter watch it and see what her take is.

[CR]

I thought they could get away remaking. Always one that I thought if you take this type of story and then sort of tune it up, dust it off a little bit and set it in a contemporary world, it still would be a lot of fun.

[Van Lathan]

So a guy thrown around in LA on January 6th.

[Bill Simmons]

I was.

[Van Lathan]

I was watching a barber in LA getting laid on January 6th.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife watched this movie with me on Sunday night. And at one point, it was just a long shot on. On Warren Beatty. And my wife was like, God, he was so handsome. I think that's like 90% of it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he also had a really good sense of who to play and what and what to not do. And he was like a quarterback that knew exactly what.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What. What he was. Could do to move the ball down the field. And he's not a scrambler, and you don't want him in the. He just. I'm going to do this. This is my move.

[Van Lathan]

In quintessential, kind of screwball romcom like, fashion, you can watch this film. There's a lot of plot in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

There's a lot of stuff about, like, his company and Charles Grodin and Diane Cannon's relationship in the background.

[Bill Simmons]

The town in England.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, the town in England.

[Bill Simmons]

Le.

[Van Lathan]

But you kind of like. With the people who are in it, they're so good that you're just sort of like, yeah, yeah, I get. I get. Basically this guy's dead. He's come back, he's fallen in love.

[Bill Simmons]

But don't you feel like it got better? The movie gets better as it goes along. And then the last 40 minutes are just like Lights out.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, they're small.

[Bill Simmons]

As soon as he's, like, playing football with the. With the servants, it's like, this is the best movie I've ever seen.

[CR]

There are small things in the movie that just make you. That make this character one of the most lovable characters on screen. Like when he's in practice and he starts cooking and he starts jumping up.

[Van Lathan]

And down, and they're like, Calm down.

[CR]

Mr. F. But he's got his entire world back. This is all he wants to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

This entire movie is happening because the backup quarterback has been promised the starting role, and he cannot get over that. And he's willing to come back from the dead or do whatever he has to do, and on the way, finds love. It really is an absurd premise that shouldn't work, but for the Charles.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's about a backup quarterback from the Rams, but it's also about whether or not, like, you have a true love and the soul exists.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Whether your body matters, whether it's just your spirit and whatever is in your.

[CR]

Eyes, and also just about, like, what a good dude can undo. They're telling him that the Porpoises are being threatened by.

[Van Lathan]

We're being sued by a guy named Porpoise.

[CR]

We're being sued by a guy named Porpoises. And all of a sudden. Which. We'll talk about this later. I love scenes with everyman in boardrooms in big meeting rooms. Like, Dave.

[Bill Simmons]

I was gonna say Dave. When there's like, wait, so you're telling me 200 million and we're gonna make people feel better about their cars.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's gonna cost 50 million.

[CR]

You know, he goes, I don't want to tell some kid.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

That's asleep in their car.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[CR]

So that somebody else feels better about their car. Do you want to tell them that? No, Mr. President. I'm like, get his ass.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

I'm like, get him, Dave. And so, you know, you just love the guy so much, you want him to win the super bowl by the end of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Julie Christie, who had 1965 in all time. Apex Mountain, where she won best actress for Darling, but also was in Dr. Zhivago, which is one of the 10 biggest movies of the 20th century, and then had a really good career and really picked her spots and was not one of those, oh, I'm gonna do my version of Sleeping with the Enemy. She's just making good movies and ends up in Don't look now, which I think is right around when she broke up with Beatty. Because there was this whole thing about she might have had sex with Donald Sutherland or maybe she didn't. It was a whole. And I think it drove Warren Beatty crazy. Does Shampoo is in Nashville? And then this was kind of her last, like, really big movie. Like, she turned down some big parts and reds. And she was supposed to play your girl Charlene Rampling's part in the Verdict.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. She turned that down.

[Bill Simmons]

Turned that down. Just kind of took a step back, but I don't know. Van. Is she. Where is she in the hall of fame for you?

[CR]

Oh, she's not up there.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[CR]

She's. She's, you know, she's. She's maybe like out of that foreign hall of fame, maybe. Foreign hall of fame.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[CR]

Like Monica Belushi. Yeah, Type of the Monica Bellucci wing of the hall of fame.

[Van Lathan]

Monica, Judi Dench, Judy Young.

[CR]

Helen Mirren. Like Excalibur. I'm thinking about Excalibur. What's the movie that she.

[Bill Simmons]

The lady in Rain.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's Helen Mirren where she plays what's her. Mordred. Not what's her. What's her name? Morgana.

[CR]

Morgana, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Rain man lady. Can I say something? Italian lady.

[CR]

Warren Beatty.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Real quick. For a guy who was as suave as him, he got cucked a lot.

[Van Lathan]

What do you mean? Oh, in movies.

[CR]

No, she went with Donald Sutherland, which I saw. And then he very famously got cucked when Axl Rose.

[Van Lathan]

Can you really say he got cucked if he's taking.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it was Stephanie Seymour.

[CR]

Stephanie Seymour. And that was a big deal. And that, to me, was a big story about, like, the end of Beatty, because Beatty was still the. Ugh. And then Axl Rose comes along. Welcome to the jungle. And just like. It just, like, takes his girl.

[Van Lathan]

But isn't it part of the magic was, was he ever like. Isn't that just like. Isn't this the kind of fairy dust that we're talking about that he must have where you're just like, how is this guy who's kind of a quirky, anxious, good looking.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Gray head of hair, all that stuff, but, like, he doesn't look like he's an action movie star.

[CR]

Glasses have full CR Right here.

[Van Lathan]

Just saying. There's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's something I would say if he's with, what, 20,000 women, 10,000 women, whatever.

[CR]

It doesn't matter if you.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a couple, probably a couple that.

[Van Lathan]

Go sideways every once in a while. You're gonna. You're gonna get strike out It's a numbers game. Yeah.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But what's interesting, it's like Shea driving the lane.

[Bill Simmons]

Growing up, I knew nothing. And even I knew, like, Warren Beatty, a lot of ladies in that dude's life. Like, it was just part of the package with him in a way that I don't like. Nobody would have that now. Nobody talk. Nobody would. That wouldn't be, like, a selling point as a positive for an actor. Like, look at all. Look at all the ladies.

[Van Lathan]

I think there's nobody. Something that kind of dates. Not dates the movie in a good way for me, but does date it. When I was watching, you know, in the beginning of the film, when he's bicycling around Malibu, and you're just like, this is like another planet. Like, when could you bicycle around Topanga like this?

[Bill Simmons]

But think about how many movies and TV shows were filmed in that area back then. And it just seems like the greatest place in the earth. There's no cars, just the beach. Everyone could live on the beach. Didn't matter.

[CR]

It's beautiful. His life looks like. If you are 14. His life looks like the greatest life ever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he go.

[CR]

He's. He's by himself. He's working out.

[Bill Simmons]

He's.

[CR]

It's like a.

[Bill Simmons]

He's making a liver and Wei shake.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

It's like a version of rosillo.

[Bill Simmons]

It's 78 resillo.

[CR]

It's 78 resillO. It's like he's working out. He's grinding tape, talking to football coaches, biking around.

[Van Lathan]

For now, I just can't get the idea of Rossillo playing soprano saxophone.

[CR]

As.

[Van Lathan]

He'S watching Ahmed Thompson tape.

[CR]

Coach is coming over. He's talking to him.

[Bill Simmons]

He's mad about Tom Jarrett. He's just telling random people how mad he is about Tom Jarrett.

[CR]

Yeah. And then he gets the opportunity of his life, and then things go bad. And that's our inciting incident.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this was the second version of this movie. The first was. Or the second film adaptation. The play was called Heaven Can Wait. They made a movie called here comes Mr. Jordan in 1941, and then they bought the rights. And casting. What if that's better than a casting? What if this was supposed to be a Muhammad Ali movie with Muhammad Ali? Supposed to be a boxing movie?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It was the. The original idea was it was a boxing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And a boxer. And then he comes back and he gets to fight in the big fight. And Ali was like, no, thanks.

[Van Lathan]

And that had been kicking around. Like, the boxer idea had been kicking around since the late 60s. And I think the original screenplay Coppola wrote. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. It had a lot of incarnations until it got to football.

[CR]

Can I give you the most pre2 fact about Julie Christie?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Ever. I just. Just popped up.

[Van Lathan]

You also just wanted to say pre two.

[CR]

Pre two. I like that. Bill, I gotta be honest with you.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think I made it up.

[CR]

She was a contender for the role of Honey Rider in the first James Bond film, Dr. No. But producer Craig's guy, Albert R. Broccoli. Broccoli.

[Van Lathan]

Broccoli, Broccoli.

[CR]

Broccoli reportedly thought that her breasts were too small. So she didn't get the role.

[Van Lathan]

That really is a pre2.

[CR]

That's a pre2 motherfucking factoid. Cause he probably said that to somebody in like an interview with like some magazine. Yeah, we wanted a 60s. 60s.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Pre two just wasn't. Yeah, yeah. Some really good late 70s sports stuff in this movie, including Deacon Jones, the Rams and Steelers in the heyday of like those 70s uniforms.

[Van Lathan]

Fucking Coliseum, Louisiana.

[Bill Simmons]

Coliseum looks amazing. Kurt Gowdy doing Super bowl play by play. Dick Emberg's in here. There's a Brian Gumbel, early Bryant Gumbel on the TV Chick Hearn. It feels like in that Rocky Balboa, late 70s kind of universe.

[Van Lathan]

Towards the end of the film, Julia Christie, she comes in after the super bowl and she's like trying to find the locker room. And when Beatty gives her directions, he's like, you got to go all the way down the hallway, make three lefts, make a right, or you can go back around from where you came. Game. And it was like. Because the Coliseum is like those old stadiums that are just like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a maze. Mazes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Nine Oscar nominations for this movie. This movie was down. Big hit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Astounding. This was like a. I looked at this and this is a spot of ignorance of which I have many. I looked at this as one of my cute, quirky childhood movies for almost the entire time.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it was like Angels in the Outfield or something like that.

[CR]

It was like a. Astounding how well received it was critically.

[Bill Simmons]

He was the second person after Orson Welles to be nominated for producing, directing, writing and acting for the same film. He wrote it with Buck Henry, even though I feel like there are a few people from there. Jack Warden got nominated.

[Van Lathan]

Elaine May has the co writing credit, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's what it was. He directed with Buck Henry and then he co wrote it with Elaine.

[Van Lathan]

But I think Buck Henry was right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. A lot of people.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack Warden and Diane Cannon both got nominations.

[Van Lathan]

That's right. That's right. Diane Cannon.

[Bill Simmons]

We got to talk Jack again. Even though we always end up talking about Jack Warden for five minutes whenever we do a Jack Warden. This is the Jack Warden wheelhouse era. This from mid-70s all the way through the verdict where it's just like if he's in the movie, it's just a win. It's like Alex Caruso right now. It's like my team's better because he's. Because I have Alex Caruso, I'm just better with Jack Warden.

[Van Lathan]

I know it hurts his presence with his just like wearing the like rams windbreaker and the Rams hat. He's the trainer. Right? Like, that's his job. It's.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the trainer. But somehow has like all this time to train a billionaire. He's not there for the Super Bowl. Yeah, there's. There's nine related.

[Van Lathan]

I have a bunch of Max stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Missed the super bowl because he's got to get down this murder investigation. Let me know what happens. But it's the biggest game we've ever had.

[Van Lathan]

He's participating in a sting operation to get Dino Cannon.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have done that on a Monday.

[CR]

Max. Also the rare trainer that has input on who's going to start on Sunday.

[Van Lathan]

Yep, we. We have that coming up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[CR]

But no, like, this is what I. This is, this is how I know him. I mean, this movie was essentially like how I know him.

[Van Lathan]

This and Verdict.

[CR]

Yeah, this and the Verdict and then, you know, Carbon Copy later on and all that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Dirty work.

[Van Lathan]

Good Oscars.

[Bill Simmons]

Good Oscars. Obviously had no chance that year because it was a loaded thing to actually win. But getting nominated was great from a release standpoint. So it was a 9.5 million dollar budget. Plus whatever Beta got, he had points. It made almost 100 million top five that year. Grease, Superman, Animal House, Every which Way But Loose and Heaven Can Wait. Coming in six. Hooper. Number seven, Jaws two, Revenge of the Pink Panther, the Deer Hunter and Halloween.

[Van Lathan]

Diane Cannon's on in Revenge of the Pink Panther, isn't she?

[Bill Simmons]

She sure is.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Foul play was 11th. You had to do it back then.

[CR]

People want to have fun at the movies.

[Bill Simmons]

People and as make movies back then.

[Van Lathan]

I like Peter Sellers and I like Sharks.

[CR]

As much as people. As much as people hate. There's been some hate here at the ringer on Philo Beto and Every which Way But Lose.

[Bill Simmons]

Who hates that movie?

[CR]

I can't remember who I was talking to. It Might have been Sean. It might been Criterion Collection himself.

[Bill Simmons]

I should have.

[Van Lathan]

You should check. I wouldn't. I could see Sean going either way.

[Bill Simmons]

Figured snap fantasy was gonna.

[CR]

I can't remember somebody that I'm talking about, like, how much I love those movies I got.

[Van Lathan]

It's not. It's not one of my favor, Clint. Like, I would get mad if we did that before. Like Pale Rider as a child.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought that movie was a grand slam. It's like he's just going to drive around with the rang and get fist, punch people. Inject this into my face and punch people. The rag's going to grab a banana and eat it. Oh, my God, we've done it. Roger Ebert for Heaven Can Wait. Three stars.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

He said it's the kind of upbeat screwball comedy Hollywood used to do smoothly and well. Takes the curse off the plot's essential sweetness by giving us some nice mean digs at greed, corporate politics, adultery, professional football, and jocks in particular. Interestingly enough, Pauline Kael, who is Warren Beatty's like number one fan for Going back to Bonnie and Clyde and was really upset with this movie. She disliked it. She said it was image conscious celebrity moviemaking. Said Warren Beatty had turned into a baby kissing politician and really went after him. And it became this really kind of famous Hollywood story. Which I still don't know what Tarantino's movie critic script was about.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But my guess. So what happens is Warren Beatty, instead of feuding with her, ends up trying to rebuild the relationship with her, hires her, flies her to Hollywood and she becomes like a creative executive.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But then he buries her and she's basically buried doing nothing for a year. But she sold out working in Hollywood, but then didn't actually get to be involved in movies. And he basically, like, that was his way to get back at her.

[Van Lathan]

I wonder though, if like the.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that might have been the.

[Van Lathan]

Issue of that assessment by her leads him to doing Reds, though Reds is the complete opposite and a very, very.

[CR]

Serious period, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Partly. But he'd been working on that since like 1970. He was obsessed with John Reed for some reason. But yeah, I think after reading that, I think it's like, I'll show you. And then he like dove hard into Reds, but. But yeah, her career was kind of never the same after the Beatty thing. She came back and you know, her stuff in the 80s that we've talked about, it was just had a little tinge of cynicism, not quite gay cynicism.

[Van Lathan]

It just kind of like behind times a little bit.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Anyway, all right, we're gonna take. We're gonna take a break, and then we'll do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush deodorant. Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula. One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? ° listened. They admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. And thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes. And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially. We're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original Degree Cool Rush is back, and it smells like victory for all of us. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed? Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. All right. Most rewatchable scene. I love the first 15 minutes of this movie. Yes. So I don't even want to pull it out, but if I had to narrow it down, I'd go with the birthday celebration when Max comes over and all. Just everything that's going on there. I had it as they just seem like they're buddies.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's all.

[Bill Simmons]

They do a great job in five minutes. I mean, like, oh, these guys are fucking boys.

[Van Lathan]

And Beatty's in that, like, got all the bric a brac in that little house up in the canyon, and he's just wearing jeans and a T shirt. I have the first eight minutes, which is like the title sequence basically leading up to the tunnel to his bike ride.

[CR]

By the way, interesting thing with the title sequence. We don't come in with any zany music or anything like that. We come in silence. Heaven Can Wait across the screen. Which, like, you'd have thought, like, with the tone of wrestling movie, that they would have got you ready for it, but now they want to get you into the world. Like a serious guy's life who actually is a serious football player.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, they really pour on the football when he's Joe Pendleton. They probably could have gone away with, like, two passes and some practice, but it's like, no, let's show some things. And I really think Beatty was like, I gotta show everybody. Well, I can fucking sleep.

[Van Lathan]

He's got his fucking arm angle.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He's. He's like, let me show you. Let me show everybody a few different things I can do. He played in high school and apparently got all these scholarship offers.

[CR]

And you can watch this movie and tell. Because when I'm watching the film, I'm thinking to myself, okay, who could play this role? Is this a role that, like, Mark Harmonies? Who. But I guess he wasn't acting yet. Probably still at UCLA around this time. But, like, who else could have played this role? Obviously, but when you watch him drop back, he's dropping back, ball up, elbow slotted. He knows that. He knows how to throw the football, and he wants enough passes for him to actually have some film and some tape. Like, I have that written down. Like, Warren Beatty, good cadence. He's the man. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He has a couple, like, short touch passes. He wasn't just, like, throwing deep. He's actually shown. Craig, had you seen this movie before?

[Craig]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you think of Warren Beatty just as a quarterback?

[Craig]

I thought he looked great. Honestly, I liked him a little bit more than Bert. I thought he had a great physicality. He's got that natural kind of like, works with his hands build to him. He's kind of like a. Like a Baker Mayfield type.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I have a different read on him, but, like. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to save it.

[Van Lathan]

Well, yeah. Do you think. Right. Was. Reynolds wasn't naturally a quarterback. He was a fullback. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He was more like a Lamar Jackson. He was running QB that. Flying around, making plays. Yeah, this is more of a system. Brock Purdy, slash. Baker Mayfield, 70% completion rate.

[Craig]

He could run, though. I mean. Yeah, the final.

[Van Lathan]

That's right. He gets. He has to scramble at the end.

[CR]

But you know what else is in the movie? Very subtly, the jargon. Like, yeah, he. They want you to hear him get out that terminology. He's.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, he's doing all the Altman stuff with sound where you can hear, like, the defenders being like, pass, pass, pass.

[CR]

All of that stuff. Like, you could tell that at least from him. Like, he had played some ball before. He's given out the route combinations to the receivers, and they want you to hear all of that and go, what does that mean?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Also, how awesome is it to be Warren Beatty? And you're like, you know what? I'm going to do. I'm going to quarterback the Rams for an afternoon.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, Right. Well, they film. So they film the super bowl scene. It's. They have 14 minutes at halftime of a preseason game. So he goes out there and all the plays. They're in front of, like, the full crowd. Who's just nuts.

[Craig]

Like, imagine if they did that today.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Well, that's what they did with F1. Right. And that's what they did on days of thunder where they're, like, throwing guys in there just to shoot it during an actual.

[CR]

I feel like they just did that because. You know the guy who plays Reacher now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

There was a picture of him at a Cubs game, and everybody was like, oh, my God, Alan Richard or whatever.

[Van Lathan]

Over there shooting it.

[CR]

He is definitely Reacher. Because if that motherfucker is just walking around looking that angry, dressed up like Reacher the whole time, they're definitely shooting Reacher when he's in the stands of the other Cubs games. I guess they might. They still do it every now and again.

[Bill Simmons]

There's one part in that 14 minutes, like, one of the plays where he's just. He's calling plays and he's looking both ways, and he. It almost seems like he's changing the play, and he's like, red, red, red, red, red, red. And like, he just seems like a quarterback. It's really impressive. It's. That's also up there with.

[Van Lathan]

It's a preseason game against the Chargers. Was the crowd, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That's a great crowd for a preseason Rams game.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a lot going on in the late 70s anyway. Most. Rob.

[Van Lathan]

You guys want to go watch preseason.

[Bill Simmons]

Rams, the birthday celebration. I think they do a good job with the car accident.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Of showing the tunnel and the car and the cars are around. He's on his bike, and then all of a sudden, they do.

[Van Lathan]

In this movie, they do very dark stuff in a tonally light way.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So getting in a car accident while you're on your bicycle, your wife trying to kill you, you know, chemically poisoning an English town.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The thing that falls. The thing that falls on the bed, what is that, like the plate?

[CR]

He goes. He comes right into the room where they are, and they're alerted to the fact that he's still alive. But the gag that they did right before they tried to kill him is the same gag that they go back to, which means his character doesn't care, which means you're okay to not care. Just move on from it.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the montage of bodies to jump into. I could have gone With a couple more. They do a race car driver and they have the balance magician guy. I could have done three more.

[Van Lathan]

I love all the fake rules.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I could have just kept going. Could have. Like a waiter in Hollywood. Like, we just could have. Porn actor. Would have been fun.

[CR]

But they're trying to show him people. Okay, so let's do this. They're trying to show him people that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Is that a net haven?

[CR]

See, they get on me about it, but you're in the light.

[Van Lathan]

I thought you wanted to be a quarterback. No, never mind.

[Bill Simmons]

This is, like, video's not coming for a while.

[Van Lathan]

Can you imagine James Mason and Buck Henry's invisibly sitting in a porn set?

[Bill Simmons]

I like when he becomes Farnsworth and Diane Canaan freaks out when she sees the mouse. Really good stuff.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe and Betty in the limo falling for each other a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Were they like, Tommy's Chili Burger or something?

[Bill Simmons]

Staring back and forth, a lot of long, long looks. I like the history and the baggage of them, too. All right, these last four, I love all of these. Joe brings Max to the mansion, tells him the secret, single best thing of the movie. I won't tell a word to anybody. I promise. It'll be our little secret. Our little secret like what you told me about your older sister and the Coca Cola salesman, huh? Hey, man, what about that scar you.

[Van Lathan]

Got on the bottom of your tongue, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

How the hell did you.

[CR]

Well, what happened?

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, what did you do at your uncle's wedding?

[Van Lathan]

I know what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, what about the first time I fixed your neck in Pittsburgh and Jack won't believe it?

[Van Lathan]

He fixes his neck.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm calling him Jack until he does the. That thing that happened in Pittsburgh. And I always like when those. And there's been a few movies like this where I have to convince CR That I'm CR But I don't look like me. And then I'm like, no, no. Remember that time we did Heat in my pool house in 2019? Like, Bill, I was Top Gun Maverick.

[Van Lathan]

Your leg.

[CR]

I was thinking about that. What would be the thing that you would say to somebody to let them know unequivocally that it was you? Not like your wife or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Like somebody like Max.

[CR]

Yeah, like somebody that's in your life. Like that. Like, you know, they had. There was the cracking of the neck. There was the playing of the flute. Like, if you're trying to convince me that it's me, that you'd be like.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm on that thread. It's You. I would just talk about the thread.

[CR]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

You just talk about the thread I'd mentioned.

[Van Lathan]

No, because then you would be like, you could have hacked my phone or something like that. It's gotta be like a personal experience, right?

[CR]

Like something. What's the thing? Like, what's gonna be the.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I would be like. You took me to your childhood diner in Boston.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cabots.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

You guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I took cr. I took CR And Sean to Cabot. Yeah. Great.

[Van Lathan]

The hot dog.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig didn't want to come. He was with his in laws.

[CR]

Oh, crazy.

[Craig]

I remember the invite, but you were.

[Bill Simmons]

At your in laws.

[Van Lathan]

You had like a kind of steady invite, but you're like, I'm good. Yeah.

[CR]

Tough.

[Bill Simmons]

I had to juggle a lot of in laws here.

[Craig]

I have like five family members there.

[CR]

Craig, I'll be honest with you. We need to do more work. There's also absolutely nothing that you and another body could do to convince me that you were you. We don't have any core memories.

[Craig]

Anything I could do?

[CR]

I don't. Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Cause you guys need a more personal relationship.

[CR]

We need more core memories, man.

[Craig]

That's probably right.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Craig]

All right.

[CR]

We need more core memories.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's. So your cutoff line is, craig, you're somebody I know and that I've interacted with and done some stuff with versus core memory friend.

[CR]

It has to be a core memory. Yeah, it has to be something like. Think about what he tells him. He tells them, do you and I.

[Van Lathan]

Have a core memory?

[CR]

There are things we could do.

[Craig]

That was quick.

[CR]

There are things we could do.

[Van Lathan]

Quick.

[CR]

There are things we could do.

[Van Lathan]

I think that thing I said to you earlier today actually could be a core memory.

[CR]

We were.

[Van Lathan]

I went on a golf weekend last weekend and we. We had caddies. And I, some reason, reflexively turned to Van and apologized.

[CR]

It was the weirdest thing. So listen.

[Van Lathan]

I was like, we had to have caddies.

[CR]

So. So look, it's the weirdest fucking thing, bruh. It's the weirdest thing.

[Van Lathan]

Sorry.

[CR]

So he's telling the story and he goes, we have caddies. And I'm looking at him because I'm listening to the story, and he turns around, he goes, yeah, we need to have caddies. I'm like, I don't give a about that.

[Bill Simmons]

There you go. That's your core.

[CR]

Remember the time you up the caddies? Some weird Bagger Vance shit? Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sierra and I have seen a few movies together. I can't go to any of those.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did we see the gray together.

[Van Lathan]

Well, we saw that. We saw, I think going to see Black Hat, just the three of us at the Olympic UA being the only.

[Bill Simmons]

Two people in the theater that like Black Hat. Anyway, that goes Joe and Max and convinces him it's Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We go right to the football warm up montage with the servants, which I honestly could have gone eight more minutes with Grodin runs into the bush. The guy's trying to catch the passes. And then there's a couple shots of Warden and. And Beatty just. Just kind of flinging it. Yeah, Warden looks pretty good. Like, I feel like Warden might have had some football background.

[Van Lathan]

I was going to save this for later, but I have to ask you this now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Are you kind of bummed out that professional sports franchises have reached the price point that they're at? Because otherwise you could get into a Farnsworth kind of situation.

[Bill Simmons]

67 million for the Rams.

[CR]

Yeah, you got that.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he apparently overpaid. Sounds great.

[CR]

It was only supposed to be 19. Yeah, that's. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

But you want to live in a world where a guy could buy the Rams and make himself the quarterback and it wouldn't cause an absolute panic on social media.

[CR]

I have a list later on who.

[Craig]

Is the richest man that could theoretically actually start for a football team.

[CR]

Right now I have a list of top five owners. I want to see start for a football team.

[Craig]

Like if a rich guy bought a football team, it was like, I want to be the quarterback.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Like it's the most believable. Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Could he start it like Mark Zuckerberg?

[Craig]

Not Mark Zuckerberg.

[CR]

So I'll just go ahead and do it now. Number one, I got Jerry Jones. What I want to put. I want to see Jerry Jones 40 years ago. No, now playing football. I want to see Jerry play offensive line for Arkansas. Okay. He was the captain. I want to see Jerry Jones protect that Jimmy Dolan. James Dolan. We'll call him Jimmy. When he's playing, you and him get along. And like I'd have him. Brunson is on the bench. I want Jimmy running the point five' ten. Also his band, JD and the straight Shot. They could play at halftime. Magic Johnson, owner in two different sports.

[Bill Simmons]

Magic Johnson can do it.

[CR]

So either I want to see Magic play hit cleanup for the Dodgers, or I want to see Magic as a pass catching tight end for the Commanders.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you see, you have that wrong. Okay, you want to put him on the field goal block team in the middle because he's 6, 9, 6, 9. He just jumps for the field goal. Just comes in for special plays. And it actually would make sense.

[Van Lathan]

You think all this rumor mongering about breaking up the Celtics is coming direct from Chisholm because he's going to install.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he wants to play.

[CR]

He wants to play. Last one.

[Bill Simmons]

Why'd you have to bring up the Celtics? I was having such a good time.

[CR]

Donald Sterling.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God.

[CR]

Power forward for the. For the Clippers. I want to see him play against Isaiah Stewart and Draymond Green in a game with no files or flavors, where every point he scores, it costs them $50,000. Yeah, I just want to see physical basketball for him. That's it. That's my list of owners.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there was a Celtics minority owner, Jim Palata, who was like the number three guy when Wick's group bought the team.

[Van Lathan]

Was he? Was he? Didn't he?

[Bill Simmons]

Roma for a while, he ended up. But he sold his stake to buy Roma. Yeah, but he played all the time. And the joke was always, if he got the team from Wick, he would do the. He would do the. And just all of a sudden, he'd be on the team. But I think they have a lot of rules against this. Yeah, you can't say that, because. Yeah, Jordan, LeBron, if he got a team, could he make himself. Could he put himself on it? Like, no, they have rules that you can't.

[CR]

You can't call your own.

[Van Lathan]

But this is exactly. You're right, though, where it's like, I will kind of want to live in a world where LeBron owns a team and then is like, at the playoffs, is like, you know what? I'm fucking coming back.

[CR]

I would love.

[Van Lathan]

That would be awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

News flash. When Cousy was coaching the Cincinnati Royals a million years ago in, like, the 1970, and they had some injuries, and he just made himself a player coach for the last seven games of the year, and they were like, okay, Bob Cousy's got me to play.

[CR]

And that was it.

[Bill Simmons]

It just was the way it happened. Yeah, I'm not against that. Yeah, I mean, that would be fun if NBA coaches were just like, yeah, we're a little short today. I'm suiting up.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Like, Missoula. Missoula was just like, I'm getting out here now.

[Bill Simmons]

Missoula could do it, actually.

[Van Lathan]

I'm sure he could.

[CR]

You think Missoula could play? Like, I think he could be.

[Bill Simmons]

He could be the 14th man on a team, like, for break, case and emergency.

[CR]

Okay, what about Jason? Kidding. Too old. Reddick could Definitely do it.

[Bill Simmons]

But Reddick would actually put himself in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He'd be like, we need spacing.

[Van Lathan]

They probably could use it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

I'm gonna go Chauncey Billups. Maybe because my. Looks like he could still give you some minutes.

[Van Lathan]

We got distracted. But you had the training montage and football practice.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the montage of, first of all, one of the best backyards. I mean, just enough room where you could really have a great touch football game.

[CR]

You were talking. You were talking about the house.

[Van Lathan]

Slight betrayal because it's in Northern California.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah. And then fake Leo's first Rams practice when Beatty comes in.

[CR]

I love that.

[Bill Simmons]

Lights it up. Mr. Farnsworth, you play any college football?

[Van Lathan]

What does Grodin say? Like, disregard any of his racial comments.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, very, very nice. Very, very impressive. I'm Tony Abbott, Mr. Farnsworth's personal private executive secretary. Very nice. Very, very nice. Don't let that any of Mr. Farnsworth's racial statements offend you.

[Van Lathan]

For God's sakes.

[Bill Simmons]

I just miss talking to you.

[CR]

You're disregarding.

[Van Lathan]

For God's sake.

[CR]

He's trying to. Man, Groen is cooking in this.

[Van Lathan]

Out of his mind in this movie.

[CR]

Did Groen ever get his moment where we all appreciated Midnight Run? Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Midnight Run was his. That was his Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But yet. Because he's in foul play too, which is. I think it's same year.

[Van Lathan]

Chevy Chase. Yeah.

[CR]

He's in Seem like Old times.

[Bill Simmons]

Not. Not foul play. Seems like old times. That's 1980.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's amazing and Seems like old Times.

[CR]

Amazing. It seems like old times.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that movie.

[CR]

Yeah. Have you done that one yet?

[Bill Simmons]

No. I don't know if I. I don't know. I'd have to watch it again because as a kid I loved it. Definitely throwing 100 miles down.

[CR]

Not to get too far off the movie, but. But you know why the movie holds up to me? That's the. That's obviously people gonna say Fletch and other and you know, obviously the vacation. But Chevy is so perfect in that role as the good looking tall.

[Bill Simmons]

But he's like a fuck up first husband guy.

[CR]

Yeah, it is. But like he's perfectly cast in that opposite her too.

[Bill Simmons]

They have some good dogs in that movie. They've good dog movie.

[CR]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Good slapstick. It's very like three's Company era where like misunderstandings.

[Van Lathan]

Just had a quick vision of the future of us doing the Brandy booth month of great dog movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Chippy chase month. That rams Practice is really fun. So Joe says goodbye to Betty and then gets shot. It's like, somebody's going to come back someday. Maybe. Maybe they're even the quarterback, which is just insane.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he gets shot and falls in the. Well, and then the last one, he wins the Super Bowl. But then the movie gets really sad.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Do you cry so the.

[Bill Simmons]

You've been known to cry during sad movies.

[CR]

Oh, yeah, I cried. So I didn't cry during this one, but I. But I cried. Movies. The scene where Joe is trying to.

[Van Lathan]

Appeal to him, where Max is trying.

[CR]

To appeal to him, where Max is trying to appeal to him, is legitimately sad.

[Van Lathan]

It's so heartbreaking.

[CR]

Is like, legitimately, the jubilation that you feel when he's able to convince him that he actually is his friend is then completely disintegrated by the fact that he then has to lose that friend again.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[CR]

Hey, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Little fresh air wouldn't hurt.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, look, just.

[Bill Simmons]

Just do me one favor.

[CR]

Look at me. Just. Just look at me. And, like, to me, the acting that's done in the movie, so much of it is on that character to be like, oh, my God, I got my buddy back. Let's get him to the Super Bowl. He wins the Super Bowl. They actually have a moment where it's, hey, it's you again. And then he's gone again. Forever. Dies right in front of his eyes, basically. And he's. The only thing he has left is the saxophone.

[Bill Simmons]

It said in the Biskin book about Beatty that that scene where he kind of doesn't recognize him. And it's a little cold that for people in Beatty's life, that's kind of what he was like. Where you were, you'd be his best friend, and then the light would shine on you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then as soon as he kind of got what he got from you, he'd move on to the next thing. And then all of a sudden, you were like Jack Warden in that scene.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, oh, man. I guess we're not friends anymore.

[Van Lathan]

And then the bittersweet scene with Christie.

[Bill Simmons]

So, yeah, I think that's my most rewatchable scene. I think the last 10 minutes of this movie are most rewatchable for me. I really like the Christie. I love when. When it goes dark and he's like, no, no. Whatever he says, like, it's okay. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They're just don't play. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she's like, you're the quarterback. And just like, how she plays that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good. I'm Totally in. I believe it.

[CR]

So my most rewatchable scene is actually the scene where he's convincing him.

[Bill Simmons]

Convincing Max.

[CR]

Yeah. That's like the just delightful scene. But I also want to give some love to the boardroom.

[Van Lathan]

It's amazing.

[CR]

The boardroom is just so much fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He's.

[CR]

He's functionally the most ignorant guy in the room, but then he's actually the smartest guy in the room in human compassion.

[Van Lathan]

Would you pay a penny to save a fish that thinks?

[Craig]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

So it's like all of that stuff. Just fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got very, very, very good comic timing. Which shampoo. He also had that I don't feel like he used in enough movies.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And also had some real hitters, like helping on set and writing the script. Like Elaine May and Buck Henry. Yeah. Are two of the funniest screenwriters that have ever existed.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your most rewatchable?

[Van Lathan]

I probably go training montage. Football practice. Just. Yeah, I just go back and back and like watching Grodin watch him get sacked.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1977 thing about this movie?

[Van Lathan]

What do you have professional athletes being closer to normal people than they are now? So, like, the idea of, like Joe living alone in a pretty modest house and not having anybody over for his birthday and just hanging out, like now.

[Bill Simmons]

He'D be like, Yo, I'm 35.

[CR]

Yeah. It just means he's. That's. He. It means nothing that he's the.

[Van Lathan]

But like, stockbrokers got paid more than those guys, you know, like, they're there. You would be like, famous, but you might not get paid that much. And it's just like that opening sequence where you're like, this guy's just jogging like a normal person and wearing jeans.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. There just weren't a lot of famous rich athletes back then. I remember Inside Sports. It's like 1980 or 81. Nolan Ryan became like the first million dollar baseball player. And it was like him on the COVID Like, athletes are making a million dollars. This sport's going crazy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like three years before that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So like in the. Reggie Jackson.

[Bill Simmons]

That was another one. Oh, my God, Reggie Jackson.

[Van Lathan]

But there was like half a dozen guys who kind of reached that level. And then like, you could be starting quarterback for the Rams or the backup quarterback for the Rams, and you were pretty anonymous. Right.

[CR]

You could make an argument that if this movie were remade that it wouldn't be his motivation, wouldn't be to start the Super Bowl.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure.

[CR]

That his motivation would be monetary. In Some way that it would be.

[Bill Simmons]

Like to own the Rams.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no football game.

[CR]

You know what I mean? The motivation would be like I need to continue to play because I need to get this much money or get this.

[Bill Simmons]

I need to build a new football stadium in LA. What's your most 1977 thing?

[CR]

It's that.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[CR]

No, that's what I'm saying. The fact that he was like a. That I was. I wrote that like playing. Being a quarterback for the Rams didn't mean anything.

[Van Lathan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

I have some runners ups.

[CR]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

The. The hairdos for the females in this movie. Very distinct. 19. That kind of permy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Big body era. The little Farrah Fawcett residue.

[Van Lathan]

Feathered.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That's uncannon.

[Bill Simmons]

The houses. The. The. This mansion that's supposedly like the most decadent great mansion is some of the wallpaper Folio house.

[Van Lathan]

Is that what it is?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I have some stuff on it.

[CR]

Later.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. The wallpaper and some of this stuff is really gaudy. Like it would never. They would. The house would be totally different now. Young Dick Emberg. Very 1977 concussion protocol. I'm pretty sure Tom Jarrett's not just running back on the field after he's been carried off on a stretcher for five minutes.

[CR]

And then because he was. Let's make it sure he was dead.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We think he.

[Van Lathan]

Independent neurologist.

[CR]

Yeah, he was. He was.

[Bill Simmons]

There's about the die. No content.

[CR]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

But then the number one for me is the Rams costing 17 million but having a book value of 19.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

As a professional NFL team. These teams are worth $7 billion now.

[Van Lathan]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

I actually had that in what's aged the worst. And I guess it could have aged the worst or the best depending on how you look at it. 19 million bucks.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two special awards. The Sasha Jenkins award for actor you can't believe didn't become a bigger star. You could go Grodin here too. But I thought Diane Cannon was really just. I just liked her and I don't. She just was kind of in roles like this was her peak. But not if you're ready to get to that Goldilock.

[Van Lathan]

If you're ready for what's age the best. I am about to open a Dian Canon 6.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. We'll see. The Amanda Dobbins award for best piece of real estate which also goes to the den of thieves Benny Hanawar for scene stealing location. Leo Farnsworth's house.

[Van Lathan]

Although you could make the argument that Joe's place in Topanga probably most value. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It was called the Filoli Mansion. It's a historical museum Now, Craig, too bad you got married because you could have gotten married there for prices starting at 75,000.

[Craig]

Oh, nice.

[Bill Simmons]

It's located in Woodside, California.

[Van Lathan]

Too bad you got married and you also didn't get to go to Bill's childhood diaper.

[Bill Simmons]

You missed out on two things so far. It's between San Francisco and San Jose. It is also seen in the opening credits of Dynasty.

[CR]

Oh, Carrington's.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's the home of a movie we've already done in the rewatches.

[Van Lathan]

Is it the Basic Instinct house?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's Michael Douglas home in the game.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I had a feeling Michael Douglas would do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Oh, we talked.

[Van Lathan]

Michael Douglas also pretty much the heir to the Warren Beatty style of like.

[Bill Simmons]

But never could have been the quarterback. Right. That's the difference. I don't feel like he could have pulled.

[Van Lathan]

So he. China syndrome. Mike. You don't think he could have tossed it around a little bit?

[CR]

He is the darker version of Warren Beatty. Warren Beatty is the lighter version of him. Did he ever play a role like this that was kind of like this? The life where you always had that little thing with him?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He never shows the. The Basic Instinct shot of his butt with the balls hanging out between his butt cheeks. He's never doing that.

[CR]

Almost to the point.

[Bill Simmons]

Too classic.

[CR]

Almost to the point that in Bugsy.

[Craig]

Nobody says butt cheeks anymore.

[Van Lathan]

What is iconic like that one scene.

[Bill Simmons]

We can kind of see your balls in the shot. We might have to do this again. Leave it in. It's what I wanted. What's age the best. I'll start. I'll start us off. According to the movie, Joe Pennantson was supposed to live until 10:17am on March 20, 2016.

[Van Lathan]

We just passed it.

[CR]

We just passed it.

[Bill Simmons]

He still would have been alive.

[Van Lathan]

No. He did.

[CR]

He'd be dead.

[Bill Simmons]

No. And this year and he would have made it to 2025. We would have been like 85 year old, probably. CTE and dementia from playing football for nine years.

[Van Lathan]

And then five people would be like, Joe Pendleton was a bucket. Joe Pendleton.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

I have a six pack of Cannon.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's go.

[Van Lathan]

Diane Cannon wanting a drink. Diane Cannon's outfits. Diane Cannon's eye acting. Whenever Charles Grodin covers her mouth. Diane Cannon screaming. Diane Cannon's off screen body count, including Johnny Carson, Armand Desante and Cary Grant. And Diane Cannon still cranking out Lakers home games.

[CR]

Going for it.

[Bill Simmons]

You left out Diane Cannon as her adultery boyfriend, Char. What is Charles Gordon her paramour? Whatever word you want to use.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Guns down her ex husband and she's just kind of hanging out doing her hair, just completely unfazed.

[CR]

The reality of this relationship inside the movie is completely fucking bonkers. They are like fucking inside of the house. They're living together inside of the house while she's married somebody.

[Van Lathan]

But they're so funny together.

[Bill Simmons]

Hysterical movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's his own movie. Him in full pajamas with her. Like, it's just so fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Him hiding the curtain.

[CR]

Kind of reminds me of like the side relationship. And who's Harry Crumb? That movie. Yeah, who's Harry Crumb? Great movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Another one Stage. The best. Vincent Gardini as a police sergeant. We were two away from gardenia month instead of big ass 70s month.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, what a death wish.

[Bill Simmons]

I should have reconfigured this.

[Van Lathan]

Gardena now officially has more movies on rewatchables than Warren Beatty.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[CR]

Nuts.

[Bill Simmons]

The score of this movie I had, I think is just fantastic.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Dave Gruson, the music.

[Bill Simmons]

This is almost like Shawshank where it's just like fun to hang out with the music. And when it gets like the sad version, then like the happy peppy version, then it gets sad again. Hey, Van, how about for what Sage the best? An overtime super bowl. Which didn't happen until Pat's Falcons. Right, Right when he first one.

[CR]

Yeah. Shout out to everybody in Atlanta.

[Bill Simmons]

Seemed like a crazy idea at the time. Was this super bowl to go into.

[Van Lathan]

Overtime and is this sudden death overtime?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Steelers ram Super bowl. Filmed at a Chargers ran preseason game September 1, 1970. Seven and a year and a half after the movie came out. January 1980. Rams, Steelers, super bowl in Los Angeles.

[CR]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

That's fucking weird.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not in the Coliseum, in the Rose Bowl. But you have any other what stage of us?

[CR]

The court. The popularity of backup quarterbacks. This team.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[CR]

This team is in a Super bowl run.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

And they're changing quarterbacks constantly. Like going back and forth in a Super bowl run. Another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know why that is? Because quarterbacks were less essential back then because they used to get the absolute fucking shit kicked out of them. And they threw a ton of interceptions and there were really only a few good ones. You go back and look at the stats from 1978, guys will have like 26 kicks in a season.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They're basically like, you just had to not get killed when you were the quarterback.

[CR]

Oh, that's when we get to what's age the worst. I'm going to talk about his fucking stat line.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. I was the only other thing I had for what's age the best is this movie is one of the first things in culture that I can remember like being like California New age wellness, like drinking whey liquor shakes and alfalfa sprouts and the kind of weird like out like California way of. Of health, which obviously I have that.

[Bill Simmons]

In what stage the worst. Because really I think in 2025, if somebody did a liver and whey drink, whatever the that was, I'd be.

[Van Lathan]

Don't tell Craig about a good time.

[Craig]

You should see my TikTok algorithm dog.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that looks disgusting.

[Van Lathan]

People are eating like livers. Like raw livers.

[CR]

This is the golden age of that type of shit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Of liver.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Guys are.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know anyone who would eat the Liver King.

[Van Lathan]

Craig.

[Craig]

Yeah. Liver king was on a bunch of steroids.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

But yeah, people are eating animal organs.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Raw meat, everything like that. I didn't even know whey protein powder was a thing in 1977.

[Van Lathan]

And he had like a bunch of mushrooms.

[CR]

I didn't realize that to the point to where it's already. I would have thought that they. Maybe they had whey protein that you could. But he's. It's like being sold.

[Craig]

I mean, it looks like now they.

[Bill Simmons]

Had steroids in the late 70s too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We didn't know about it, but they had a lot of them. Yeah. Just saying.

[CR]

Environmental causes.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[CR]

This movie is like literally one of the first movies that I could remember that was talking about this stuff is in what you're doing. We're being displaced the whole night. She's there on environmental costs. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Leo Farnsworth goes woke at the end.

[CR]

Goes woke up.

[Bill Simmons]

I had for what stage the best. Cleo Farnsworth being a rich guy. Because those guys are back.

[CR]

Like literally an rich guy. An rich guy who.

[Bill Simmons]

Deserve that.

[Van Lathan]

I saw that out of the.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm saying billionaire guys. Come on.

[CR]

But he's like. He's such an. That he's walking around in a sailor outfit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I was going to say all of his outfits when he first has to be Leo. And he's like, do I play polo? And they're like, not really. Do I like boats? Nah.

[CR]

He's just like a super fucking pretender.

[Bill Simmons]

Leo Farnsworth, Interesting choice for a name.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that that is the Tess Rockwell Award winner?

[Bill Simmons]

Not really. I don't.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a weird Rich guy name Farnsworth. Leo Farnsworth. I, you know, I would have gone with like Chadwick Farnsworth or. I don't know. It doesn't sound like rich and douchey enough to me. I guess you guys didn't fixate on it. The big burger award for best use of food and drink is obviously the liver and waste shake. What'd you have for great shot? Gordo?

[Van Lathan]

Buck Henry and Warren Beatty walking through the clouds at the beginning of the waystation scene. And just like him trying to catch up to him. That whole sequence is just great. Must have really blown some minds in the late 70s. Be like, oh, that's heaven.

[CR]

The cool looking plane or the, you.

[Van Lathan]

Know, the airplane terminal for heaven.

[Bill Simmons]

I was going to do this later. I'll do it now. Given movies that shaped everything I think about everything. I think heaven is like heaven can wait. And I think hell is like ghost.

[CR]

Oh, like with the.

[Bill Simmons]

When the shadows come up and pull you down, I think, I think that's probably what it's like.

[Van Lathan]

So when you're car dies while going 75 miles per hour on the 10 and you go, go quickly, you're going to go to like an airplane.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm hoping to see the clouds and not see those shadows coming up out of the sewers.

[CR]

They're. They're here for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough one. Poor Willie Lopez.

[Van Lathan]

And then you'll try to find a young blogger to throw your soul in.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'd be like, AI tik Tok. This guy's the rage right now.

[CR]

So funny Jo me trying to convince me that he's Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

I start rattling off like andor stuff.

[CR]

Oh, that's how I would know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. If I knew all this.

[CR]

If you knew all of that stuff. All of the van, van, van. I'll tell you right now. Galactus Bill would not know this.

[Van Lathan]

Mon Mothma moving her money around.

[CR]

I would be like, nah, it's you.

[Bill Simmons]

Junk Chess Rockwell, Brock Landers, best character name.

[Van Lathan]

I have Max Corkle.

[Bill Simmons]

I had Joe Pendleton. I thought that was a QB name. What do you have, man?

[CR]

What was the category we just did? I think I had one for that. Oh, I wanted to say something real quick. My favorite shot is, I think it's a weirdly moving shot when they go black out of the tunnel and then they come out to the living.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, it's awesome. That's great.

[CR]

Of light. Cause it's like literally everything goes black. He's gone. But then it's like, no, he's still here. And it comes out and he's right there. It's an awesome shot. Yeah, I love that every time I see them. Movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take a break and then we got to see our Flex category. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. One of the most useful things of my life lately has been my Apple card. It's great for game nights, vacations, just life in general. And applying was so easy and quick. You can apply, see your credit limit offer, and then start using your card in minutes. Do it while you're watching a basketball game and you can start making purchases before halftime even rolls around. I also love how I can get up to 3% daily cash back on every single purchase. That's more money for game tickets. I feel like I scored big time when I started using Apple Card. Applying the wallet app on your iPhone and start using it right away with Apple pay subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard. Com this episode is brought to you by Cars.com whether you're buying your first set of wheels, upgrading to fit your growing family, or looking for something to have a little fun with on the weekends, visit cars.com and explore. Explore the possibilities. Up to 50,000 cars are added daily. So wherever life takes you, there's a car for it on cars.com find your next possibility on cars.com where to next? All right. CR Flex. Go.

[Van Lathan]

You know I'm gonna go. Mallory Rubin did this movie need a better sex scene? Because it is kind of weird that Diane Cannon is a 10. Is the Proto Dana Wheeler Nicholson in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And is leaving Warren Beatty for Charles Grodin who seems to be a never nude and is in full silk pajamas in bed with her. And I just feel like we could have had one scene of like Groton Grodin and her going after it.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this movie is really pg.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because even when Warren Beatty and Julie Christie kiss, it's not like they're like making out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they're like very. What is it actually rated pg? Oh, yeah.

[CR]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. This isn't a rated R, I don't think.

[CR]

You know, you thought maybe a PG 13. They're trying to kill the guy the whole time he gets shot with a gun. Like, you know what I mean? Like I, you know, you would have.

[Bill Simmons]

Thought they're not PG 13 till like 84.

[CR]

That's right. That's right. It didn't even exist.

[Van Lathan]

But I think that this movie was crying out for a sex scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, you know, if this so me. Come on.

[Van Lathan]

I'm surprised Beatty. It's just like going against his his better instincts.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe he didn't trust himself in sex. Just would have begun Carried away Butch's girlfriend award for the weak link of the film. What do you have Van?

[CR]

I couldn't think of one.

[Bill Simmons]

I have one.

[CR]

I really couldn't think of one.

[Bill Simmons]

Like two rams quarterbacks die in the span of three months. What are the odds?

[CR]

Wait, that's not a character, that's a knit, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a weak link of the movie, the two quarterbacks. One dies in a bike.

[CR]

Jared doesn't die.

[Bill Simmons]

He's about to die.

[Craig]

Yeah, but nobody knows.

[Van Lathan]

Runs back on the field style. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

One of those things happen. It would be the biggest thing of the year.

[CR]

What if we're not watching Tua?

[Van Lathan]

That's right.

[CR]

Yeah. What if we're watching. What if somebody else has inhabited Tua's body cuz Tua was actually we're watching George Blanda.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you, you have a.

[Van Lathan]

We think I, I, I think Julie Christie's hair and her vibe. I mean like I think she is one of the most stunning women that's ever been born. But like this, this haircut was not doing her any favors.

[Bill Simmons]

70S what stage the worst. At some point there's a quote, one of the players goes looks like we got us a rich quarterback.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking now every like half the Brock Purdy makes a year. What quarterback's not rich? What else do you have for what's Edgeworth?

[Van Lathan]

Warren Beatty's 1970s character names.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Joe John. Joe Joseph, George, Nikki, Joe John. Put a little fucking elbow grease into this war.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's what he's, he's trying to.

[CR]

Be regular guy with everything Jared's numbers. They are saying that Jared is completing an astounding 60% of his passes with a whopping 18 touchdowns. Like fucking Jared is Derek Carr.

[Bill Simmons]

That might have been like the number 3 QB in it might have been.

[CR]

But that as being like an incredible stat line that's aged the worst.

[Van Lathan]

It is kind of funny to watch this movie and think about is this movie about Jimmy Garoppolo? Like would this movie be like if Matt Stafford died, Jimmy Garoppolo would become starting quarterback.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm looking up. So would you say Jared had since.

[CR]

He was completing 6% of his passes, 18 TDs. But look, I mean I know Dan Files is playing at this time, right? So there are some guys that are chucking it all around now, are they not? Or am I Completely off base. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Isn't TDS. So. Th. Dan Pastorini had 17. He was 15th overall that year. Terry Bradshaw 20, he was 10th. Oh, 28. No, I'm looking at the wrong thing. No, that's actually really good. Gary Danielson 18 TDS. He was sixth.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[CR]

Jesus.

[Bill Simmons]

I was looking at interceptions because those are higher. Fran Tarkenton led the league that year with 32 interceptions.

[CR]

He threw 30.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, two. And guess what? Ken Stabler had 30.

[Van Lathan]

Well, Ken Stabler, it was all. All or nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

Steve Grogan had 23. Yeah, you were more likely to throw. Joe Pisarchik that year. Had 12 TDs and 23 interceptions. These guys were just getting massacred.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I have 1970s quarterback like offensive line slash protections. Can't really imagine Drake may making it through too many of these games.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, this is what's age the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

Julie Christie trying to save Paglim. The town of Paglim. Here's what we know. There's 1,760 citizens losing their homes because they're building a refinery. Are you allowed to just take people's homes? Is that a thing?

[Van Lathan]

I got an eminent domain here. I don't know if it's happening in the England.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing that happens.

[CR]

I have some really, really dark history. You ever heard urban renewal?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm just saying.

[Van Lathan]

I know you've read some. Howard's in, man. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but Leo Farnsworth's just like. Yeah, I'll be taking y' all just building a refinery.

[CR]

Guys, we about to get a new pod here. I just needed more info. I'm about to turn Bill onto some.

[Van Lathan]

Of people's history of Hagglesham.

[CR]

We about to get a new pod.

[Bill Simmons]

What's her job?

[CR]

The best.

[Bill Simmons]

She's teacher. She just leaves.

[Van Lathan]

It's. Yeah, it's what, the Super Bowl?

[Bill Simmons]

She's gone. She's in la. December, Right. It's a school year.

[Van Lathan]

But it doesn't matter. If she's not successful, there will be no school.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's not dating or married. No kids.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Hagglesham. It's only. You know, maybe the. The pickings aren't great.

[CR]

Yeah, she came out there, but it's all block. I was playing.

[Bill Simmons]

It's fine. Just asking questions. How did the clarinet end up in front of Tom Jarrett's locker at the end? Why did that happen? Where'd it come from?

[Van Lathan]

You sound like Wendy. Why is that? Where'd it come from?

[CR]

Did he bring it with him, the.

[Craig]

Clarinet or the saxophone. Jumps back and forth between, like in real life and then only with the angels.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Cause you can maybe like, did James Mason leave it there? Like, was there? You know, like, is. We haven't met James Mason yet.

[Bill Simmons]

No. We should have. I don't know why it's there. I don't know why it shows up in the locker room. Just basically to make Max think that it's really Joe and it's not. But it has no purpose. Here's my big one, though. This is more than a nitpick. I just don't think it was a catch on the final play. Oh, yeah. I don't think he had two feet down. He's. He caught it. He. He's starting to make a football move, but not really. And then it's a fumble. And Joe Pendleton. Tom Jarrett goes 60 yards.

[Van Lathan]

I feel like that's an incomplete pass.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was an incomplete pass.

[Van Lathan]

But that was what was great about football back then. They just had to let it rock.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think that was a continuation, Craig?

[Craig]

That didn't jump out to me. What jumped out to me was that that was. That would be the greatest play in super bowl history. And no one really even talked about it. Well, the quarterback picks up the ball, runs for a 60 yard touchdown in overtime to win. The crowd barely makes a noise.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No announcers really hurt that one. I don't know what Kirk Addy was doing on that play. That's all I have. For what stage? Divorce. Ruffalo Hand and Ribbon Partridge overacting Word. Jack Warden dials it up during the. During the murder. Kind of when they're trying to turn the tables and get the confession.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He starts just screaming for 40 seconds.

[Van Lathan]

I could. I could have done without the Agatha Christie part.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I would have taken five more super bowl plays and three less minutes of him being like. And it was you in the kitchen with the candlestick.

[Bill Simmons]

I needed. Needed to see Stevie Nicks with the Eagles at the halftime show. There's just a lot of ways I could have gone.

[Van Lathan]

David Geffen hanging out. Yeah.

[CR]

Oh, David Geffen.

[Bill Simmons]

The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest takeaway. Do you have one? Van?

[CR]

I do.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[CR]

This is a horror movie. You could look at this as a horror movie, as a guy who's being tortured over and over and over again by God for some reason. Think about this. This is heaven. These are the people who cycle in bodies all day long. They get this guy out too early, essentially screwing up his entire Life.

[Van Lathan]

Killing him.

[CR]

Killing him. They killed him. They put him in another body. He falls in love. Then they yank him out of that body to put him in another body. Then they take his memory. So all of this for him to essentially die at the end of the movie. He dies, he dies. There's no more jail. He dies. The dude's dead. He has no consciousness, no remembrance of, no memory of who he was. He's dead. You could make an argument that this entire time it wasn't God who was doing all of this to him, that it was the devil. That it was the devil trying to get his soul. I'm telling you that the devil trying to get his soul.

[Van Lathan]

We actually don't know where that plane goes.

[CR]

We don't know. And torturing him over and over and over.

[Craig]

That's kind of like the plot of the show, the Good Place.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

It's like when you look at it, he gets fucked over for nothing, like, the entire time. And it never works out. Some other guy gets his chick because he came in and did all the work, and now he's talking to him.

[Van Lathan]

His soul gets her, though. Like, they're connected. They see deep into each other's eyes in the hallway.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe.

[CR]

Maybe, maybe. But that's not how I see it. The moment he loses his memory and think about when the guy tells him that he's losing his memory. He didn't tell him that before. He didn't say, hey, we're gonna put you in a bottle of this guy. You're gonna lose your memory before he gets him out there.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I mean.

[CR]

And then he said he's fading away like Kenobi. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree that it was completely fucked up by Mr.

[Van Lathan]

This isn't my.

[Bill Simmons]

None of it.

[Van Lathan]

This is not my hot take. But you could say Joe is just an all time bad dude because he is basically using other human beings as meat puppets so that he can play in one fucking game.

[CR]

Right? Like he's. He is like, legitimately. You can look at this entire movie as a horror movie if you want. Because, like, looking at it as an older guy, I'm like, God damn, this shit is kind of fucked up.

[Craig]

Why is Joe a bad guy? I mean, Tom Jarrett would have died anyway.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but Joe is like, rather than go to heaven. Yeah, I need to have this affirmation of my athletic career.

[Craig]

But who is he harming?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's not what he said, though. He. They took him mistakenly. It wasn't his time. He wanted to live something as close to his life as he had before.

[Van Lathan]

Right. But he's only interested in doing it with a guy who's athletically, like gifted enough so that they could feasibly be trained to play quarterback. It's not like he's trying to like bend the rules a little bit.

[CR]

Think about the horror.

[Van Lathan]

This is also my hottest take that I've come up with on the spot. Think about a different one.

[CR]

The horror. They're going around showing him people that are about to die. And it's these people. This is like Final Destination shit.

[Van Lathan]

He's like. He's too short.

[CR]

He's too short. This guy's on the highway. That probably. Guy probably fell off, broke his shit. The dude probably like Dale Earnhardted out when he was like driving the car. The guy probably crashed. Probably crashed the car. It's like. It's kind of scary when you think about the metaphysics of it all.

[Bill Simmons]

So I was going to talk about this later, but we should talk about.

[Van Lathan]

This now for your hottest take.

[Bill Simmons]

No, just in general, because the different version of this movie is he just has his memory the whole time and it ends. But it's not as good of a movie because we don't get the Jack Warden scene, certainly. And we don't get the you're the quarterback scene. So for the movie it works better. But for real life, it's way better to keep his memory and just be like, all right, I gotta figure out how to be Tom Jared for the next 40 years. But there's this other piece. Like, what if Tom Jared was like married with two kids?

[Van Lathan]

I hadn't even thought of that.

[CR]

I hadn't thought of that either. Yeah, because then even if you become Tom Jarrett and you're married, but also think about your parents, he might have.

[Bill Simmons]

Had a side piece too. He might have had a whole.

[Van Lathan]

And Tom Jarrett, theoretically is third string quarterback. So he probably has like a two bedroom place in like Encino, you know, like. And is like, he's not living like the.

[Bill Simmons]

But do you think now that Joe Pendleton's soul is in Tom Jared, he's just gonna be like, you know what? I've been thinking? We should move to Malibu. Yeah. Just start doing the things Joe would have done.

[CR]

Anyway, I have another thought. A sequel horror movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

To where Joe Pendleton's soul actually starts fighting and presenting itself. He like, he's coming up. There's a movie like this that I'm thinking about. But like he's trying to take over.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

He's picking up the thing. Tom Jarrett's breaking the fucking saxophone. It's heaven will not wait. Give me my colon, Give me my body back.

[Bill Simmons]

It's good stuff. I'm not against this one. You really could say Mr. Jordan was actually the devil. He wasn't in heaven, that he's fucking with him.

[Van Lathan]

What's your habit, Jigsaw and saw mine is that when Mr. Jordan says the likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to the intensity with which others are trying to prove him wrong, he just basically invents Jim Roman, the jungle right there. Mr. Jordan invented take culture zag. Jim Rome walked seventh and wait.

[CR]

I was like, yes, I'm onto something.

[Bill Simmons]

Jay Williams is like, just writing it down. I like the zag. My hottest take. I think Julie Christie was the hottest British lady that ever lived.

[CR]

Oh, come on, man.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the British goat. Not necessarily in this movie, but just for me, it's her. And it was Elizabeth Hurley in the finals.

[CR]

Eva Green. Is Eva Green British?

[Van Lathan]

I believe she is, but I. Now you still got me thinking of young Helen Mirren.

[CR]

Young Helen Mirren.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Eva Green's British.

[Craig]

She's French.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's French.

[CR]

My bad shout out to you.

[Bill Simmons]

I still have Julie Christie against everybody.

[CR]

The dreamer.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the highest take? Van Lathan Award. Did this movie need more black people?

[CR]

Yeah. Okay, we're talking. It was football. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The line play is heavily black.

[CR]

They should have been. First of all, they should have been. The moment that he became Joe, he should have called up his homeboys that was on the football team, and he should have had to convince them that he was Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[CR]

Hysterical. They're all together.

[Bill Simmons]

Think about, like the left tackle and like the receiver.

[CR]

Yeah. Think about the kookiness of those people in that stuck up, like, lily white mansion. When they come down and the linebacker room is in the living room when the wide receiver room is out there. This is a funny thing in the movie that they missed. It's a funny thing in the movie that they missed.

[Bill Simmons]

Even Max being black would have worked. I was thinking there's a whole alternate universe where Tom Jarrett is black. And it's like you have your chance to come back and play for the ribs, but you're going to be Tom Jarrett. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

This is sort of like a footnote, like an extra caveat to the Van Lathan Award. Should be the Matthew McConaughey now imagine he's Black award.

[CR]

Think about that. If you were petty, if you're.

[Van Lathan]

If you're going to get the end of any movie, it'd just be like.

[CR]

Now Imagine, come out. This is like 1978. 78. So being a quarterback is one thing, but then you gotta go out into the world in 1978. He's gonna think about that for a second. If it wouldn't have been Tom Jarrett, it would have been Derek Jenkins.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it would have been the new second string quarterback who would have been like the Joe Milton of that team. And he would have to be like, oh, okay, how bad do I want this?

[CR]

How bad do I want it? Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

What happened with Joe Milton?

[Bill Simmons]

Why'd you guys. By the way, probably a better sequel. Pendleton becomes the black backup quarterback and he changes. He wins the super bowl and then.

[CR]

He rewrites the record books on it and he's just.

[Van Lathan]

He's just playing Italian jazz on his soprano.

[CR]

The reason why they got rid of Joe Milton because it doesn't matter if you can throw the football 150 miles, you can't throw it to a live person.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. He had that one game.

[Bill Simmons]

Casting what ifs. Warren Beatty really wanted Cary Grant to accept the role of Mr. Jordan. Offered him $1 million and had his ex wife Diane Cannon pushing. And Cary Grant said, no thanks, I will stay retired. Turned out a million dollars.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

James Mason. I still love the Verdict. James Mason.

[Van Lathan]

Incredible length period.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why it should be disallowed. Furthermore, I like evil James Mason more than Heavenly James Mason.

[Van Lathan]

Captain Nemo. James Mason is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Diane Keaton was Warren Beatty's alleged first choice for the role. Buck Henry has said a lot after that they tested all these actresses and. And it just made. He really wanted to be Julie Christie because he was still kind of.

[Van Lathan]

It's a difficult period for casting what ifs doing. Super 70s month is hard because it's like the same 30 people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Are linked to the role.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because they were like, this is how you get the movie made is get one of these 30 people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Is question about that. Because that is true. You hear the same names. Because some of the names it's like.

[Van Lathan]

Hackman, Pacino, De Niro, blah, blah, blah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

Some of the names you hear that you know they was gonna play Sonny is like stupid. Is the studio system still running things at this point? No. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

No. But they just want a bankroll.

[CR]

But they're recycling every role. It's like the same.

[Van Lathan]

The first Goldman book is a lot about the star. You need to get any movie made. You gotta get Clint Eastwood. You got your Robert.

[Bill Simmons]

Basically everybody. Warren Beatty was the number, number one. If we get this guy, the movie's getting Made. And Newman and redford were probably 2a and 2b I think right back then.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

And this, this is kind of like I remember that used to be this. I can't remember what it was.

[Van Lathan]

It's like, is Eastwood not like the biggest star in the world at this point?

[Bill Simmons]

He just couldn't have been in a movie like this.

[Van Lathan]

No. But it.

[Bill Simmons]

Although I think he was the most reliable box office guy.

[CR]

But you don't hear his name a lot when you hear about this. Oh, this could have been this guy. This could have been this guy. It seems like.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's hard to imagine he's got.

[CR]

Enough cachet to just do his own movies that he wants to do that are only for him who have been.

[Bill Simmons]

A good Jack Horner.

[Van Lathan]

Eastwood.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just being Eastwood. He's like, I'm ready to shoot Jack.

[Van Lathan]

He's just like, I'll tell you when you're ready to shoot, you little twerp. Can you imagine? These would be like the day that Groen gets the drop on him and shoots him and he falls into a well. I don't think I could ever see that happening.

[Bill Simmons]

You got something itching in those pants waiting to get out. Dirk. Three directors considered a direct. Arthur Penn, Mike Nichols, Peter Bogdanovich all bounced around. But Beatty really wanted to direct it himself.

[CR]

Version would be really interesting to me.

[Bill Simmons]

His career was pretty much in, in shambles at this point.

[Van Lathan]

There's also like this weird thing with this movie. You know, it's, it's very cool looking and it's, it's, it's delightful. But like the co directing credit and Buck Henry was brought on because Beatty didn't want to have to direct other actors in scenes that he's in. But Warren Beatty's in almost every scene. So like which directing did he do?

[Bill Simmons]

Buck Henry's really bitter in the book. Like he definitely is lobbing grenades. Neil diamond composed a song titled Heaven can Wait specifically for the film. But Beatty, Beatty decided to declined to use it. I was trying to think what that song could be. Heaven Can Wait like Neil diamond voice best that guy award. So the Rams coach played by my guy Dolph Sweet, who was the dad in Give me a break with Mel Carter.

[Van Lathan]

I have John Randolph, the Rams owner.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good one.

[CR]

As the best act guy, I have William Bogart who's in the boardroom scene. He's the dad from. He's on Small Wonder.

[Bill Simmons]

Small Wonder. Good one, Diane. Wade Dionne waiters award has to go to Diane Cannon. I Think she's eligible?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[CR]

What about Groton?

[Bill Simmons]

Could be one or the other. Groton.

[Van Lathan]

I had Warden or Mason. I guess Warden's in too much. I had Mason.

[Bill Simmons]

Warden's in too much. Mason over Diane Cannon. Well, I thought nominated for her Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

Third person in this film. Like she's third billing.

[CR]

It's definitely a. Oh, you think so? It wouldn't be Julie Christie. No, she's second billing.

[Bill Simmons]

Fine. Deacon Jones. Got a couple lines.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director or city? I actually really like how this movie's cast. I don't think I would do anything.

[Van Lathan]

You want to move it to Foxborough?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, I think this needs to be away. I need the Malibu footage.

[CR]

You know what? I had a thought, man. New Orleans. I know. I'm being a homer. New Orleans works. Put like a little spiritual since it's a horror movie anyway. Spiritual, voodoo element.

[Bill Simmons]

Horror. New Orleans.

[CR]

Yeah, some sort. Very close to the city. He's playing for the Saints. Saints going to the super bowl would be a big deal.

[Bill Simmons]

I think New Orleans could have worked only four times. Oh, half ass Internet research. Only four times in Oscar's history have two people been nominated for best directing Oscar. The last two were the Coen brothers twice for True Grit and for no country for Old Men, Heaven Can Wait. And then two guys for west side Story. Not common. They usually have a bunch of rules that you can't have co directors. They discourage it. They don't like it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I think you have to be like the Cohen brothers who are like, no, no, no, it's cool. We're doing this like as a team. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Biskin, he said Chris Day used to be really hard on Warren Beatty in his book about that. He was basically making sellout movies. And apparently in that wide shot, when he's walking with her before like the last. Basically their last scene together in the mansion when he tells her, if I ever come back as the Rams quarterback, the wide shot, they're talking and they're just supposed to pretend they're talking. And apparently she was saying, I can't believe you're still making these fucking dumb movies. All these people are all over Europe making fabulous films and you're still doing this shit. And then smiling at them like she was sweet talking him and was just like fucking with them the whole movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. But now in that respect, it's like, what? What is she talking about? Because like Parallax view, shampoo and McKinnon, Mrs. Miller, which pre are the precursors to this, are all and I would.

[Bill Simmons]

Argue this was a really good movie that he should have done. I don't.

[Van Lathan]

And he was Red.

[Bill Simmons]

So where's like all this typical British person? This is why they fucking suck.

[CR]

Oh, whoa.

[Bill Simmons]

Get them the out of here. We sent them packet in 1776. I stand by it.

[CR]

It wasn't we.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying Sierra's got some English blood.

[CR]

It wasn't we. I didn't have much say, you guys. Actually, I did, you know, shout out to Crispus Attucks. I mean, we went first. You guys. You don't care. You guys don't care about that. Okay, cool. Gotcha.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just going to move on. Apex Mountain. Go for it, Warren Beatty.

[CR]

No, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

What is this Apex Mountain?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's makes you think it's Shampoo.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's Reds Ritz. Because he gets the Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say shame. I personally would say Shampoo because I think after Shampoo he could do anything he wanted. Which ended up being this movie that he writes, produces, directs and stars in the. And is like here, take money.

[Van Lathan]

Something to be said for the fact that he does reds and doesn't really do anything with it until Ishtar.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he has like a five year. I think he's just getting down.

[CR]

Coked up.

[Van Lathan]

1980.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he was a coke guy.

[Van Lathan]

1982, Los Angeles. Warren Beatty coming off Reds. I think he's getting social engagements.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, maybe. Who knows Julie Christie now. I told you, her apex Mountain is 1965. Movies involving heaven.

[CR]

Metaphysical body swap movies. I have this. I like. It's a question now. So it's this. It's like chances are which I love what you guys do. I don't really care about Freaky Friday.

[Bill Simmons]

You talking about switching bodies? Well, I'm talking about metaphysical.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, like coming back down from.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this is the most famous one, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I mean, I think Dave is just. They find a twin. It's not. That's nothing like metaphysical about it.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the fifth biggest movie of a giant movie year.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Actually, to be honest with you, this is the movie that a lot of those movies are probably mimicking.

[Craig]

What about Big?

[CR]

That's a metaphysical body swap movie. Not involving heaven, but it's like supernatural type of shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Big's a good one. Yeah, maybe.

[CR]

Actually, it's probably Big. Big is probably. Probably sets the tone for this. It's not like involving God, but it's probably Big.

[Bill Simmons]

What's it? This isn't Groton, but what is Groton. Is it Midnight Run.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Just Midnight Run. And then his talk show comes after Midnight Run.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. A couple years later, Jack Warden. Probably not. I think he won. Got nominated for stuff. The Rams. They win a Super Bowl.

[Van Lathan]

First iteration of the LA Rams.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I think you could say, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Diane Cannon. She's going to Laker games. Magic's about to show up. Got nominated for an Oscar.

[CR]

She actually becomes. Don't you. Do you think the Showtime. It could be argued that the Showtime Lakers is actually the apex mountain of Diane Cannon. Like so many people know her in the NBA.

[Bill Simmons]

Fantastic commercial.

[CR]

Know her from just being.

[Van Lathan]

Being a Lakers super fan.

[CR]

Being a Lakers super fan.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

You could argue that the Showtime Lakers are her.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she was in the Pointer Sisters NBA. Fantastic commercial.

[Van Lathan]

A Chaka Khan song. She's like. She's an absolute Renaissance woman.

[Bill Simmons]

Overtime, super bowl games.

[CR]

No shout out to the Falcons fans.

[Bill Simmons]

Rich person mansions. In a movie. Is there a better one than the Filolo. Whatever it's called. Mansion.

[Van Lathan]

Like somebody who's real. I mean, Xanadu and Citizen Kane is pretty cool.

[CR]

The Greystone Mansion. Batman TV TV show.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty good Mansion.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruiser.

[CR]

Hanks.

[Van Lathan]

Hanks.

[CR]

Hanks. Hanks.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Greg.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

But I'm not as convinced as you guys. But yeah, thanks.

[CR]

I mean, to be honest. Can do it with the. With the.

[Van Lathan]

Cruz is not convincing me as a quarterback. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

I think his bike. His bike riding scene would have been incredible.

[Craig]

I don't know if Tom.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he would have been to.

[Craig]

Me as a quarterback either, though.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have really taken the football scene seriously.

[Van Lathan]

I think if Tom Cruise had done this movie, he would have been like, I can get the Butlers like to play for the Rams. Like I'll get all my.

[Bill Simmons]

I get every bit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg. This feels like Spielberg 100 times out of 100. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

[Van Lathan]

Older him could have played Max.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Oh, I skipped your van. Your flex category. Van. Did.

[CR]

You already did it? The five. The. I wrote up the five.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. You did it.

[CR]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you're up.

[Craig]

I wanted to go with the George Ellerby two weeks with pay award for the character who def. Should have been fired. I kind of think every character in this movie should have been fired. Joe Pendleton riding his bike on the freeway as a quarterback in the NFL for the Super Bowl. Jack Warden is a trainer who literally was not at the stadium on game day. Charles Grodin and Diane Cannon couldn't hide their affair at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And they couldn't kill Joe. Julie Christie, the teacher, just abandoned her ethics after one boardroom meeting.

[Van Lathan]

That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

True.

[Craig]

And the Angels murder murdered Joe Pendleton twice.

[CR]

Because they're demons.

[Bill Simmons]

This is great.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Everyone was incompetent.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rams coach didn't care that Tom Jared was legally dead.

[Craig]

Not one guy's doing their job well.

[Bill Simmons]

Power right on two. I like that. Craig picking it. I have just a slew of them.

[CR]

It just. I mean.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I bet we all have very similar ones. I'll start.

[Bill Simmons]

Why does.

[Van Lathan]

Why does the head trainer get so much say over who's playing quarterback?

[CR]

Yeah. Fucking doesn't matter.

[Bill Simmons]

What the fuck you only Alex.

[Van Lathan]

I was gonna say, there's a lot of DB12 in this movie. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you take over somebody's body?

[CR]

Weird. He's like, he looks good. Yeah. Okay. He looks great. Why don't you go over there and stretch somebody out?

[Bill Simmons]

How do you take over someone's body if you don't know anything about their life? And wouldn't the first, like, two weeks be like, wait, where. Where's the bathroom? Like, what? Who are you? Like, you just want to know anything.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Also, the biggest nitpick is, unless I'm mistaken, we never know what shape Leo Far. I mean, he's like, leo Farnsworth's in good shape.

[Bill Simmons]

He wouldn't know how old.

[Van Lathan]

How old is he?

[Craig]

We don't know what he looks like.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. How would he look like?

[Craig]

Like, he's got to be decent looking. If Julie Christie's into him pretty quickly.

[Bill Simmons]

He'S, I think, should have been a scene where he picked up a picture.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And looked at, like, a wedding picture of him and Diane Cannon, and just. We get to see who it was.

[CR]

So they do this same thing in a fantastic movie called Wonder Woman 1984.

[Van Lathan]

You're being sarcastic about being fantastic.

[CR]

Terrible. It's, like, legitimately terrible. Chris Pine comes back as Steve Trevor, however, in a different body. We see him as Steve Trevor when he sees himself, we see the person that he's supposed to be. They should have done that.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

How does Max have time to train fake Leo Farnsworth for weeks when he's supposed to be the Rams trainer.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a really solid nitpick. I have a lot more. Oh, we did. How old was Farnsworth? What was his body like? Can you buy the Rams in, like, four days? Probably not. Probably a vote.

[CR]

The fucking whole league has to vote.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

The commissioner has to.

[Bill Simmons]

Money has to exchange hands.

[CR]

It doesn't Matter. Matter how much? It doesn't matter if you come in and you go, I'll pay 100.

[Van Lathan]

I know. They talked about the Douchebush for, like, 18 months. Yeah.

[CR]

It's like, you can't, you know, way you can't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

He. He starts trying to buy them during the playoffs, and then they're in the super bowl, and he's already the owner and has been practicing.

[Van Lathan]

How is it that the Jets, Ravens, and Pats all got behind the Eagles there for the tush push? It's all the people, all the teams.

[Bill Simmons]

Of the ring for all the people with aggro coaches.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Brave was like, I fucking love the tush push. What happened to Tom Jarrett? When Leo was practicing with the Rams, the owner just shows up and starts taking reps, and they're about to play in the super bowl and they have a starting quarterback.

[CR]

What do you mean? What happened to him?

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Jarrett's just like, all right, I'll just be over here. Like, he's the starting quarterback. They're about to play in the Super Bowl. This would have been the hugest story. Like, insane new Rams owner takes over Rams and takes reps from Jared during a practice. This is all anyone would have talked about.

[Van Lathan]

It would have been incredible. I can't. So who would. Jarrett would have been third string at the start of the season. Right.

[CR]

The second.

[Bill Simmons]

Jarrett was second. Second. He was starting for Pendleton because Pendleton was hurt because Pendleton was coming back from an injury.

[CR]

Oh, Pendleton. Wait, wait. Pendleton. Oh. So Pendleton had hurt his knees, he lost his job.

[Bill Simmons]

He was coming back, and that's why.

[Van Lathan]

And no one had ever seen anybody recover from a knee injury like that without surgery.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He basically did it with health training.

[CR]

With whey protein and liver and steroids.

[Bill Simmons]

Pablo Tori would have done a long podcast about Leo Farnsworth trying to practice with the team and then done a media tour about it afterwards. This guy, bro, I've never seen anybody dying on the stupider story for a week and a half. You're a journalist. What the was that? Seriously?

[CR]

What the.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Belichick's dating a girl. Oh, let me do nine shows.

[Van Lathan]

Are you.

[Craig]

If this was about Jeffrey Lurie, though.

[Van Lathan]

Would you be like, we got to get public.

[CR]

Right? Like, why are you giving him.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, you don't need to do media tour.

[CR]

Everybody was talking to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe do two shows. Yeah. Could an owner actually play for his own NFL team?

[CR]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say no.

[Van Lathan]

I would love to see the 1978 NFL Owner's Guidelines, because I feel like, those guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Guys were getting away with a lot, but covered. I was thinking, Matt, HBO was the ultimate new owner syndrome guy. Yeah. But I think this might have been just, I own the Rams and I'm now the quarterback. So they. They shoot Leo in his house, and they don't think they're gonna get caught.

[Van Lathan]

Well, this is.

[CR]

No, no, no, no. They don't fucking shoot him in his house. Because shoot him in his house means that somebody walks up to him while he's in a closet or he's in some place where nobody knows where he is, and you double tap him and then go. Somebody broke. No, that's not what they do. They fucking Lee Harvey Oswald him from a window in the house.

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[CR]

While he's standing in broad daylight.

[Van Lathan]

And the cannon goes off.

[CR]

Yeah. So it makes, by the way, impressive.

[Bill Simmons]

Shot to time it with the cannon.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[CR]

But. Absolutely makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. You're caught. Like, you're caught.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the biggest possible gun that you could never hide in a million years. It would take five hours to take it apart.

[CR]

But the funny part about that is they tried every other way to kill him. And then Groen goes, fuck it. I just got domed this motherfucker. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

He Lee harvest.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Well, and also the question then becomes, the Rams owner dies the day of the Super Bowl. Or these murderers discovered, like, a week before.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The murders discovered the day.

[Van Lathan]

Which would then put the Rams at the center of yet another insane story.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like, not to mention two quarterbacks dying.

[Van Lathan]

Guy buys the team, makes himself starting quarterback, gets killed.

[Bill Simmons]

Max skips the super bowl to help the police catch the killer. We mentioned that. How did Max get to the super bowl that fast?

[Van Lathan]

Is like, he's got Michael, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Fourth quarter. Yeah. Head down to the Coliseum. It's the Super Bowl. All the. All the streets are closed.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

He gets from wherever Fardsworth is supposed to be, living in Southern California, to the Coliseum. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other picnic?

[Van Lathan]

No, I've gotten them all out.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Sequel, prequel, Prestige tv. All black cast are untouchable. I think the Prestige TV case is really good for this.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would be. The whole Farnsworth. I would have. I could have spent eight episodes with it.

[Van Lathan]

I would also stretch it out a little bit so you got a little bit more Gruden and Canon. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that character was like, what do they.

[Van Lathan]

What do these two talk about?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe we go to Pagglesham and see what's going on with the refinery.

[CR]

The whole Gruden and Gruden. The whole Groton and Cannon thing. They got like an episode or two just by themselves. Yeah, just by themselves. Trying to kill.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley?

[Van Lathan]

I broke a new character out for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just for this movie. So Pablo Torre, Jon Gruden, John Gruden.

[Van Lathan]

Let me talk to you about this Joe Pendleton out of the Los Angeles Rams organization. Okay. Running a concept I like to call Broom X Lightning. And I love the arm angle. And let me tell you something about Joe Pendleton, though. The guy's a fruitcake.

[CR]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

With the alfalfa sprout shakes, we didn't have those in Mike Holmgren's QB room. Brett Favre was drinking six cans of Bush with three circa sets, and he did just fine. I don't know why I made him, like, kind of like he's.

[Craig]

Yeah, he's from Ohio.

[Bill Simmons]

It was a little like the Bears. I liked it. I didn't have one for this one. Do you have one?

[CR]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Wayne Jenkins.

[CR]

He doesn't really do the voices yet.

[Bill Simmons]

It's in his contract, so I had to. I had to go back to Ryan Ruko since it's WNBA NBA time. I'll do Ruko.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Shooting Warren Beatty with a long rifle. He's eyeing him from across the mountain.

[Van Lathan]

You bet my cannon goes off. You bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Just want to ask her who gets. Won an Oscar for art direction. So I guess that wins.

[Van Lathan]

Is that Silbert? Richard Silbert.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess that's the winner.

[CR]

You know what, though? I felt like maybe. Warden.

[Bill Simmons]

I like wording for best supporting, best support. The problem is this was Walken's ear for Deer Hunter.

[CR]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's out. He's out.

[Van Lathan]

Who won supporting actress this year?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember.

[CR]

Deer Hunter.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions.

[CR]

What movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Van, what's up? If heaven was like Heaven Can Wait and hell was like Ghost, and you could lock that in. Are you good?

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[CR]

Locked in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. There's a lot of volatility there, so I think I'd take it.

[Bill Simmons]

You take it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. There's a chance heaven could be better. There's a real chance hell could be way worse.

[Bill Simmons]

The plan seems solid.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Planes taking you somewhere.

[CR]

If you could have the version of Heaven be actually what it is from any movie. If heaven is what it. What movies. Heaven, to you is the best heaven that you would like.

[Van Lathan]

The most, I really. I just. Aesthetically speaking, the most pleasant is defending your life.

[CR]

Oh, yeah, defending your life is good.

[Van Lathan]

Because I really like the idea of being able to eat as much as.

[CR]

You want and the food tasting fucking amazing, whatever you eat.

[Van Lathan]

But I would have a hard time, like, going over every pot, you know, in front of a jury.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess my question with heaven is people are still working in heaven in this movie. Like, Buck Henry and James Mason have.

[Van Lathan]

Jobs, but they're entities. They're spirits or angels.

[Craig]

The answer is this is the end. Incredible. Heaven.

[CR]

That was a good heaven.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good heaven.

[CR]

That's a good heaven.

[Bill Simmons]

Good answer, Craig.

[CR]

What was a beautiful movie. What Dreams May Come. Good heaven.

[Bill Simmons]

Good movie.

[CR]

No, good heaven.

[Bill Simmons]

Robin Williams and Cuba Gooding.

[CR]

Cuba junior Good heaven. Not a great movie.

[Van Lathan]

Trying to think of other heavens.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty rough movie.

[CR]

I'll tell you something, what you just said about heaven reminds me of something Mr. Dyer told us. Sophomore year, Christian Life Academy.

[Van Lathan]

God damn. You get a lot of names of your teachers into pods. I gotta tell you.

[CR]

Mr. Dyer told us. I remember when he was telling us about the fact that there was a dome of water over the earth before the flood, which is why people lived that long. And during the flood, God dropped the water on us, and that's what made the flood. And then right after that, after the flood, everybody stopped living as long, Right? This was a whole thing.

[Van Lathan]

What did he teach this?

[CR]

Well, this was Christian life. So, like, they. They teaching you calculus a little bit. And then they go, let me tell you why. If you don't get this right.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I got you guys here.

[CR]

Yeah, this is what he said. I remember one time he was talking about heaven and doing the whole deal. He's like, I hope you guys know that in heaven you will work. It's not just going to be a situation where you're hanging out and enjoying it the whole time. You're going to wake up, you're going to go out, you're going to pick grain, you're going to do something. You're going to be a stone cobbler. There's going to be work in heaven. And I remember looking around that class at a group of youngsters who thought that if we could only get it right on the earth, that we would be up in heaven chilling for eternity and watching this fucking guy break our hearts. So I'm telling you guys right now, in heaven, you will have to be middle management for some other planet or some other civilization where you're going to have to find People and get them on the metaphysical plane.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Are they. Same game. Paradise. Can I do Taylor Fade there?

[Van Lathan]

Would your idea of who to jump to would be like I need to jump into a guy who has access to fandom.

[Bill Simmons]

I need to be in a state where there's gambling. They show me the states. Like California doesn't work.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's this guy Ohio that works.

[CR]

Is your version of heaven New York hitting on every bet or. No. Because it's going to get old. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

This is one of those things. I. There's two types of people. The people that think about this and wonder what's going to happen. And then the people who try not to think about it at all. And I'm in the latter camp.

[CR]

I am so in the Ladder.

[Van Lathan]

I'm in the Ladder camp.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like thinking about this stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Is it even sadder to think about nothing happening? You know?

[CR]

Ah, Jesus. We got to move on. I'm about to freak out.

[Van Lathan]

Just the. The.

[Bill Simmons]

The TV goes off.

[CR]

I'm about to freak out. For real, bro. We gotta. We like. We gotta move on. Like literally. I'm feeling anxiety rising in my feet right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Does the what nail word for what happened the next day. Y. Tom Jarrett probably in the Superstars that summer were the. On abc.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You think he moves on from Betty Preface.

[Bill Simmons]

Might have done like a Threes Company cameo. Maybe. Maybe a Gatorade or Wheaties type of ad. And I think he eventually gets CT from the hit he took in the Super Bowl. He's probably eaten out of a straw. In 1992.

[CR]

That's it for Tom Corco was committed. The very next day. He fucking loses it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So you don't think that when he finally.

[CR]

Tom gets him fired the very next day after he has gone through his friend dying, his friend coming back and then losing it again. His brain completely fucking unravels. He spends the rest of his life. He's the only one that knows. Remember? She doesn't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

The only one that knows that he came back in a different body. And then he's gotta be around this guy. He's gotta work with this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

So he becomes an alcoholic.

[CR]

He becomes an alcoholic. Cause his life completely. He tries to go. He writes books.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[CR]

He gets a ham radio and starts trying to communicate with people. A public access TV show like the whole nine. But nobody ever believes him. He goes crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Ends up living in Pugham. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

[Van Lathan]

Any of the funny Leo Farnsworth Hats, like, all the outfits that he rocks in when he's first Farnsworth.

[Bill Simmons]

I genuinely love the Rams jackets that their guys are wearing. Those windbreakers. Those are fucking cool. I may or may not have looked on ebay for. For them just to see if they were kicking around, but the coach has them on too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really, really, really cool. The clarinet would be an interesting thing to have.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A ticket stub for the actual preseason game. The Ramsdalers, 1977. And then Jared's Rams jersey.

[CR]

That's what I have. I have Jared's jersey.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's an interesting conversation.

[Van Lathan]

I miss. I miss number 16 being a pretty good standard quarterback number.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What happened? No, it's like a receiver number.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. It's like Montana. Was that Stabler? Was that Vinnie Testaverde? Jake the snake was 16.

[Bill Simmons]

The coach Finstock award for best life lesson. There's a reason for everything. There's always a plan. That was a bad James Mason. I like that concept, though. There's a reason for everything. There's always a plan.

[CR]

I gotta believe it. It's not true. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice, I would say. Shampoo. Let's just go mid-70s baiting. Knock it out.

[Van Lathan]

This is a funny one. We've also done it on the rewatchables, but in the same kind of like, kicking around rich people LA vibe. I would go, Fletch.

[CR]

Oh, that's good. Oh, that's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Like it? What do you have?

[CR]

Meet Joe Black.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's a terrible film.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie sucks, you guys.

[CR]

But this is a movie that meant a lot. Okay. To us in the community. We watched it.

[Bill Simmons]

I had Community so much clear for Lanny stock.

[CR]

She just kind of blew it over and over and over again.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. What was the movie she hid in? Mall Rats.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Mall Rats is iconic.

[Bill Simmons]

Bought a lot of stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Doherty and Mallrats.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie? Warren Beatty. Beatty, producer. Craig. Never saw the movie. What do you got?

[Craig]

I feel bad. Oh, I. I wanted to like this movie more than I did.

[Van Lathan]

I had such high hopes for you because I saw that it was an hour and 40 minutes.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Van Lathan]

And it's about football.

[Craig]

It had.

[Van Lathan]

Goddamn.

[Craig]

I think, honestly, that's part of. I think my expectations were high. On paper, it looked great. When I saw. I was like, wow. Nine Oscars for this film. 100 million bucks in 1977. I don't know. I didn't hate it by any means. I just thought it was kind of like. I thought it was well cast. I thought it felt kind of dated. It Was a little slow. I don't know. It just didn't land for me.

[CR]

Do you think the fact that it was so critically acclaimed, like, changed your opinion of it going in and you.

[Craig]

Yeah, I think I expected to be blown away a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Can I ask you, did you think, like, the first 15 minutes, were you like, this is incredible. Like, when he's like, drinking the shake and watching game film and being Warren Beatty, where you're like, if it's this, it's. It's gonna be great.

[Craig]

I don't know. I. I kind of thought, like, the whole. I thought it was really slow. I thought that the scene where he's throwing and Jack Warden keeps saying, looks good. It had like the longest yard datedness to me, where I was like, I don't know, man. This is feeling. I'm feeling necessary.

[Van Lathan]

Is it the lowest ranked superset 70s movie for you?

[Craig]

No. Death wishes. But, you know, it's just. I think this is more of a product of just what Hollywood was in the late 70s, which is like, it's delightful that this movie got nine Oscars and made 100 million bucks. It's great.

[CR]

What year were you born again?

[Craig]

1994.

[CR]

Jesus. Like, like it. How many movies do you, like where, like, God or Heaven is in the movie?

[Craig]

I love Bruce Almighty.

[CR]

Okay. Because, like, that stopped being a thing after a while.

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce Almighty.

[CR]

Bruce Almighty's a good one, but, like, his. I think that, like, in my era, there were still a lot of movies with that. I think that stuff kind of turns people off now.

[Craig]

I think it's hard, like comedies for me. I. I grew up with a great time with comedy. Like, those are the movies that I remember the most. And so a comedy from the 70s, I just think naturally it feels dated the way that comedy was written and it was shot. I didn't think this movie was directed that well. I thought it was just like a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Craig]

Kind of sloppy.

[Van Lathan]

Not impressed with Warren Beatty and Buckhead.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Craig]

I thought it was well written.

[Bill Simmons]

Still alive. We should send him. We should send him this clip.

[Craig]

Yeah, I thought it was well acted. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not going to be all home runs with Craig.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[CR]

What didn't you like about Death Wish?

[Craig]

The entire movie.

[CR]

It's a tough one.

[Craig]

The most brutal opening scene anyone ever needs. You know, Bronson.

[CR]

Questionable politics in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't judge in the rewatch pre 2. It's pre. A lot of things.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Who is. Who's Beatty right now? They remake this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Gosling That's a good one.

[Craig]

That's a really good one.

[CR]

Yeah, he almost is the Warren Beatty. No. Maybe.

[Craig]

Well, he's not like a ladies man, per se.

[CR]

Very, very, very.

[Bill Simmons]

Warren Beatty would have played Ken and Barbie. He would have done that. He would have taken that risk.

[CR]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And Gosling's already got the football. Remember the Titans?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[CR]

He was a pussy in that, though. He was.

[Bill Simmons]

That's it for big ass. 7, 8, 5. Well done, CR Van. Had a great time.

[Craig]

I'm sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't have as good a time. Sorry. Don't ever apologize. I didn't hate this podcast.

[Craig]

I had a perfectly nice night watching it.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks to Jack and Ronick as well. No bad opinions, the podcast. We will be back next week and it won't be a. Won't be a Saturday. Thanks.