‘Hereditary’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Hereditary" with Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Rewatchables
• Host/Author: The Ringer
• Episode: ‘Hereditary’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
• Release Date: October 22, 2024

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey delve deep into the horror film Hereditary. As part of their mission to explore movies that are endlessly rewatchable, the trio dissects the film's intricate themes, standout performances, and its place within the modern horror landscape.

---

Categories of Horror Movies

Bill Simmons introduces a nuanced categorization of horror films, sparking a lively debate among the hosts.

• Grizzly Horror: Films like Saw and Rob Zombie's Halloween—characterized by explicit gore and torture.

  Bill Simmons (07:35): "First type is the grizzly horror movie that's like Saw."

• Traditional Scary: Classic horror with jump scares and familiar tropes, such as Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, and Paranormal Activity.

  Chris Ryan (07:57): "I like the ones, like the really fucked up Italian ones from the 70s and 80s."

• Safe Creepy: Supernatural thrillers that maintain a balance, making them suitable for broader audiences. Examples include Trap with Josh Hart and Midsommar.

  Bill Simmons (08:38): "Every M. Night Shyamalan movie."

• Artsy Creepy: Films that blend horror with artistic elements, such as Midsommar and Strange Darling.

  Bill Simmons (08:48): "Artsy fartsy creepy. Like thrillers with a supernatural element."

• Full-Fledged Creepy: Movies that elevate the genre through exceptional storytelling and psychological depth, like The Shining and Hereditary.

  Bill Simmons (09:19): "She isn't gone."

---

In-Depth Analysis of "Hereditary"

Plot and Themes

The hosts break down the complicated narrative of Hereditary, discussing its blend of family drama and supernatural horror.

• Beheadings and Symbolism:

  Bill Simmons (20:06): "He needs an empty, exposed neck to pop out of."

  The frequent beheadings serve as a metaphor for releasing spirits, tying into the movie's exploration of generational curses and trauma.

• Paimon and the Cult:

  Sean Fennessey (21:43): "You have younger siblings."

  The discussion touches on the cult's intentions to make Paimon the host, questioning the hierarchical structure of the demonic entities portrayed.

Toni Collette’s Performance

Toni Collette's portrayal of Annie is universally acclaimed among the hosts.

Chris Ryan (18:10): "She's really big in the performance."

Bill Simmons (18:25): "She was nominated for Sixth Sense and has never been nominated since."

Collette's ability to convey frazzled emotions juxtaposed with moments of eerie confidence is highlighted as a standout element of the film.

Cinematic Techniques

The trio praises the film's meticulous direction and atmospheric cinematography.

• Camera Work:

  Chris Ryan (29:35): "I love how that scene starts from an angle that is very far away and the camera's elevated."

• Sound Design:

  Bill Simmons (44:07): "The horror movie score... sounds like just sounds and creeks... like The Shining."

The use of ambient noises and subtle soundscapes heightens the film's unsettling mood, akin to classics like The Shining.

Personal Anecdotes

Chris Ryan shares a harrowing experience that underscores the film's impact.

Chris Ryan (32:15): "We watched the movie and we were like whole. This is very fucked up."

He recounts being involved in a severe car accident shortly after a midnight screening of Hereditary, attributing his heightened anxiety to the film's disturbing content.

---

Comparisons to Other Films

The hosts draw parallels between Hereditary and other seminal horror works, contemplating its legacy.

• "The Shining" and "Rosemary's Baby":

  Bill Simmons (88:27): "Roger Ebert admired horror movies like the Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby... would have respected Hereditary."

• "Midsommar":

  Sean Fennessey (45:35): "And that's pretty much a generation of filmmakers."

Hereditary is seen as a modern torchbearer for psychological and atmospheric horror, much like The Shining and Rosemary's Baby were in their time.

---

Audience Reception and Legacy

Discussions revolve around Hereditary's CinemaScore and its discrepancy with critical acclaim.

• CinemaScore:

  Bill Simmons (25:30): "CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of D plus, one of the least successful for a highly acclaimed movie."

The hosts argue that CinemaScore may not fully capture the film's depth, especially within the horror genre, where audience expectations can significantly influence their ratings.

---

Debates and Diverging Opinions

Not all opinions align perfectly among the hosts, fostering a dynamic conversation.

• Artistic vs. Visceral Horror:

  Chris Ryan (10:22): "If you try to put those brackets around a movie... most horror movies are not by their nature…"

While Bill and Sean appreciate the film's artistic merits, Chris remains skeptical about the "elevated horror" label, feeling it sometimes masks excessive marketing rather than genuine craftsmanship.

• Age and Filmmaking Authenticity:

  Sean Fennessey (91:46): "I don't think The Exorcist is scary right now for a 25-year-old in the way that Hereditary would be."

They debate how different films age over time, with some feeling Hereditary maintains its horror essence better than older classics.

---

Memorable Scenes and Quotes

The hosts highlight several rewatchable moments from Hereditary, emphasizing their lasting impact.

• The Telephone Pole Decapitation:

  Bill Simmons (42:13): "It's the telephone pole beheading Charlie. That scene's amazing."

• Annie’s Eulogy:

  Bill Simmons (35:38): "My name is Bill Simmons. This is The Rewatchables."

• Family Seance:

  Sean Fennessey (37:53): "Do you get what you deserve if you do a seance?"

Notable quotes like Annie's emotional outburst, “I never wanted to be your mother,” are cited as pivotal moments that encapsulate the film's emotional and psychological turmoil.

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts reflecting on Hereditary's place in the horror genre and its potential for future analysis. While Bill and Sean express admiration for Ari Aster's craftsmanship, Chris remains cautiously critical, highlighting the subjective nature of horror appreciation.

Bill Simmons (86:13): "I'll work on that."

Overall, the discussion provides a comprehensive examination of Hereditary, making it a valuable resource for both fans and newcomers interested in understanding why this film has become a staple in rewatchable horror cinema.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons (07:35): "First type is the grizzly horror movie that's like Saw."

• Chris Ryan (07:57): "I like the ones, like the really fucked up Italian ones from the 70s and 80s."

• Sean Fennessey (37:53): "Do you get what you deserve if you do a seance?"

• Bill Simmons (42:13): "It's the telephone pole beheading Charlie. That scene's amazing."

• Chris Ryan (33:20): "He got all the championships I did. He got the riches. The wealth."

---

Timestamp Highlights:

• 00:14 - Introduction to the Episode
• 07:35 - Bill Discusses Grizzly Horror Movies
• 10:22 - Debate on Horror Categories
• 18:10 - Toni Collette’s Performance Praised
• 21:43 - Discussion on Paimon and the Cult
• 32:15 - Chris Ryan Shares Personal Anecdote
• 42:13 - Highlighting Key Scenes
• 85:05 - Final Thoughts on "Hereditary" and Its Impact

---

This summary encapsulates the depth and breadth of the conversation surrounding Hereditary, providing listeners with insightful analyses and diverse perspectives on one of modern horror's most talked-about films.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 songs that explain the 90s. Except we did 120 songs and now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009.

[Chris Ryan]

The Strokes, Rihanna, J.

[Bill Simmons]

Lo, Kanye. Sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Colon, the 2000s. Wow, that's too long a title for me to say. Anything else right now, Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. Cole in the 2000s. Preference, preferably on Spotify. Want to shop Walmart? Black Friday deals first. Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50% off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart Plus. See [e-mail].

[Sean Fennessey]

This episode is brought to.

[Chris Ryan]

You by Skinny Pop Popcorn. Perfectly popped, Endlessly delicious.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, so light and crunchy.

[Chris Ryan]

Skinny Pop Original Popcorn is the snack.

[Sean Fennessey]

You'Ve been searching for. Made with just three simple ingredients. Popcorn kernels, sunflower oil, and salt. Snacking never felt or tasted so good.

[Bill Simmons]

Perfectly popped, endlessly delicious.

[Sean Fennessey]

Give yourself permission to snack and pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Up Skinny Pop Original Popcorn today.

[Bill Simmons]

The rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast network where you find the big picture with Sean Fenty. Yes, our movie's still coming out.

[Chris Ryan]

Hell yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like what?

[Chris Ryan]

Gladiator 2.

[Bill Simmons]

When's that coming out?

[Chris Ryan]

November 22nd.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's in that?

[Chris Ryan]

We got Paul Mescal and Denzel Washington.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like Denzel. I've heard of him.

[Chris Ryan]

We got Sierra and I saw Gladiator too.

[Bill Simmons]

I never get invited to the screen.

[Chris Ryan]

It's always you guys because you keep shitting on movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I would have gone to see Gladiator too. I like Gladiator.

[Sean Fennessey]

We stayed for the. They did a Q and A afterwards. We got to see Denzel in full, full flesh.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, I don't shit on movies. Nobody is more likely and a better candidate to spend 25 bucks on a new Amazon movie. Why does it so it's $20 to rent on Amazon and then 25 to buy. Why can't you rent it for 20? And then if you're like, I really like that, for an extra five, you can buy it. Oh, that's got to be at Amazon. They have a trillion dollars.

[Sean Fennessey]

You should have saved that for hottest.

[Bill Simmons]

Take, flexible pricing, hot take. Yeah, flexible pricing. Like, oh, strange, darling, that was good. I actually wish I had bought that. Yeah, let me put five more Dollars toward the buying.

[Chris Ryan]

How about this? Just buy physical media. Then you don't ever have to worry about that.

[Bill Simmons]

But then you have to get up. You have to put it in to push it back in.

[Sean Fennessey]

Depress the cartridge if it's dusty.

[Chris Ryan]

You got to get up. God. God forbid we walk around a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want, like, Rebel Ridge to come on and be like, hey, Netflix. Boom. Two clicks.

[Sean Fennessey]

You should be able to pay $2 extra if you can get it on tubi. You know, bring Rebel Ridge to other streaming platforms to be.

[Chris Ryan]

To be the people. Streamer.

[Bill Simmons]

Cold Meds Bill is here. Cr. Are you still podcasting or what's going on?

[Sean Fennessey]

I am. I got my Yankees podcast. We're cranking them up.

[Bill Simmons]

Talking Yankees with John Boy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cranking Yankees with cr.

[Chris Ryan]

The Giancarlo boys.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna go through all 14 pictures of that soto at bat.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Pitch three, change up. He knew it was coming there.

[Sean Fennessey]

This one's kind of like the return of the Jedi of pitches where he.

[Bill Simmons]

Knows this is where, like, watch my father watch. He starts nodding because he's starting to lock in. He's nodding here. My name is Bill Simmons. This is the rewatchables.

[Chris Ryan]

It's scary, but I think Cold Med School is still here.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cold Med Schools.

[Bill Simmons]

Truck House is the only one with a higher approval rating. We're about to do Hereditary, which is not a comedy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Classically watchable, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Sorry about you, Grandma. You know you were her favorite. Who's going to take care of me when you die?

[Chris Ryan]

She isn't gone.

[Sean Fennessey]

You know you were her favorite.

[Bill Simmons]

I swear I can feel them in the room. You know you were her favorite, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Something is happening. I think my mother put a curse on us.

[Bill Simmons]

Mom, I need to call the police.

[Sean Fennessey]

The police can't help us.

[Chris Ryan]

Mom.

[Bill Simmons]

You know you were her favorite, right? Hereditary in theaters this Friday. All right, guys, Hereditary, a movie that came out when we had the ringer.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Roger Ebert. He's sadly, a few years gone, Sean. Fantasy was.

[Chris Ryan]

I was writing about movies. I was writing about movies.

[Bill Simmons]

You had the Big Picture podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

We did. I had. I had the director of this movie on the show.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was that episode only like 31 minutes long?

[Chris Ryan]

It was, yeah. I think it was like 20.

[Sean Fennessey]

I went back and looked at that.

[Bill Simmons]

Because that's what we were still trying to figure out what that pod was. And it's like, is it interviews? Is. It took a while.

[Chris Ryan]

It was almost entirely interviews at that point. But that actually plays an interesting role, I think. In what this movie is responsible for and what it represents from that period of time.

[Bill Simmons]

Just go cook.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, this is the first.

[Bill Simmons]

Put on your apron. We'll just sit here at the counter.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you. I appreciate you setting me up. It's the first A24 movie we've ever done on the show. I think that represents something kind of meaningful and shift in this. This is one of the last of the first 10 A24 movies that I think sets off like a chain of events in movie culture as the big studios are starting to get less powerful and more reliant on franchises and smaller stuff like this can break through.

[Bill Simmons]

And a better ecosystem for the rent buy ecosystem by the end of the 2000 and tens is starting to come into place.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And I think some of the streaming stuff and rental stuff that you were talking about before applies to movies like this where we're building. This is kind of a new canon movie. This is one of the major new scary movies of the last 20 years. And a new voice in a feature debut in re. And so when we were starting to do Big Picture, I was like, those are the people I really wanted to talk to. I either wanted to talk to like the 75 year old guys.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Or the 32 year old people who.

[Bill Simmons]

Are Schrader, De Palma.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, Eastwood was probably 75 when you started the big picture. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

He was 75 the day I was born. So he's doing great. He's still going. But yeah, this is a big deal. I think in recent movie history.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it was this. The Witch, it comes at night. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

That was also an A24 movie. I mean, I made.

[Bill Simmons]

But we also had the Halloween remake coming this year.

[Chris Ryan]

Halloween remake.

[Bill Simmons]

It felt like people had figured out some new 5.0 version of horror movies and they were either gonna be like these 824 type movies or reboots of franchise done actually correctly. Yeah, all movies we like.

[Sean Fennessey]

Blumhouse was doing kind of low budget, exploiting the margins of like, we'll get a baseline of horror fans coming in if we make this movie for like 3, 4, 5 million dollars. And then it makes 20, 30, 40. That's great for us. That's great for the filmmakers.

[Bill Simmons]

The old sports movie model.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. But it was like those, those budgets were pretty low. And I think this marks an explosion of, for lack of a better term, prestige horror, you know, refined horror, trauma horror, you know. And I think that it's been often copied, but never duplicated.

[Bill Simmons]

Trauma horror.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I had six types of horror movies. I Was gonna run by you guys. Maybe. Maybe I don't. Maybe there's more types. First type is the grizzly horror movie that's like Saw.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Rob Zombie's Halloween torture porn. Yeah, yeah. Grizzly. Just need to take a shower. I don't really like those movies, Just FYI. I think there's a certain audience for that and I'm not sure I'm the audience.

[Chris Ryan]

I like the ones, like the really fucked up Italian ones from the 70s and 80s. I don't really like the ones from the 2010s as much.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, something felt just kind of off. Like a little sadistic. That's one normal scary. So that's Texas Chainsaw Massacre Halloween. It follows Blair Witch Paranormal Activity. Like those. Just traditional. I know. That's a horror movie. Popcorn scary. Like I know what you did last summer.

[Sean Fennessey]

Scream.

[Bill Simmons]

Scream 2.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

We're targeted at like teenagers.

[Bill Simmons]

Teenagers something. Babysitters in peril. But it's like, oh, that's that actor from Sabrina the Teenage Witch. And we go that direction. So that's three versions and then three versions of creepy. Safe creepy. What's the safe cream beneath?

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Every M. Night Shyamalan movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's creepy, but it's okay creepy.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's like I could go on a PG 13 creepy. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I could watch my 8th grade daughter creepy.

[Chris Ryan]

Like thrillers with a supernatural element.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's like that movie Trap with Josh Hart. It's like, it's kind of creepy, but I could watch this with both my kids. Artsy fartsy creepy. A Sean fantasy favorite.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

This one fits the bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Midsummer is the ultimate of that where you're just like, what just happened? And was I smart enough to watch that? Strange Darling was like that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Just ends with a five minute long shot of a character.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like, whoa, we're ending it this way. Okay, guys, going for it.

[Chris Ryan]

I enjoyed that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was good. And then full fledged creepy, which is the Shining seven. And I think hereditary. I know hereditary is supposed to be artsy fartsy creepy. I think it's just outright creepy.

[Chris Ryan]

But that's more of a subjective decision. The last one. The last one is sort of like if the movie is good enough that it elevates itself into that category as opposed to like the story type or the style. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So this is my question. So I think you understand the categories. If you were making a movie, which category would you want to be in?

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, that's a great question.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I think. I think creepy Is the highest level horror movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the last one.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, if you can pull out. Yeah, if you can pull out.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's Shining.

[Bill Simmons]

Your version of the Shining, where it's like, this is a long story. It's a long play. I'm going to pull people into this. And then when something scary happens, it's going to be fucking earned. I know. Sean's artsy fartsy.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think. I think I would probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Midsommar's awesome.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. I would love to be in the last category. Obviously, if you were making a horror movie, you'd want to be making the Shining or the Exorcist.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel the same way. If you could get. If you had to choose only of.

[Sean Fennessey]

The first five, I probably watch normal creepy the most. The Texas Chainsaw Masculine.

[Bill Simmons]

I watch all five of those series.

[Chris Ryan]

I do, too.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't watch the torture porn.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I watch all of them. I tend to like all of them. I don't. The artsy fartsy thing, like, I don't know. I don't know if you can try to do that. Like, I think a lot of what's happened in the last 10 years is marketing. Like, that's kind of what we're reacting to is like the way that a movie is framed as prestigious as opposed to actually being prestigious. You know, most horror movies are not by their nature. There's nothing really prestigious about hereditary. It's incredibly fucked up. There's multiple decapitations in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Let me piggyback off what you're saying, though, because there's something to the way that hereditary works where if you watch the first two thirds of the movie, it's not that much different than Ice Storm. It's not that much different than Ordinary People. All right, I disagree.

[Chris Ryan]

Go ahead.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, I like this.

[Sean Fennessey]

You could do a family drama version of Hereditary that does not have paimon, that does not have Possession, that does not have cult, you know, anything. And it would still be really sad and a little bit unnerving. I wonder whether what we're seeing with the artsy fartsy stuff, or however you want to phrase it, but I would go as far to say the Shining, you could say Exorcist.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you put silence in there? Silence. The lamps.

[Sean Fennessey]

We disagree about whether that's a horror movie, but let's. I'll give you that for the sake of conversation, is that they are made with the intention of making a drama or making a, you know, like just a tense film that horror emerges out of, whereas a couple of the other categories he's talking about Scream, Texas, I guess I would put in there are horror movies from their conception. Like, the idea is within the first 20 minutes, these people are gonna be put in this genre kind of situation. Now, what were you gonna disagree about with there?

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's a little overstated how much that Hereditary is a drama. You know, in its very nature, it's a movie about a satanic culture with multiple decapitations. Like, it is pure visceral horror. It is, frankly, much more horrifying than, like, insidious movies, you know? Like, it has a lot more, like, hardcore gore.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And a lot more supernatural elements than a lot of those films. So, again, I think it's kind of marketing. Like, I think a 24 was very smart to apply a lot of this sensation of, like, this is deeper than your typical horror. Now, I could read into it because I think Ari Aster is a really good writer, and I think his writing elevates the story. But that's like, the phrase that got used around this movie was elevated horror. I think it's kind of phony. I think none of that really applies. If this became a Blumhouse movie, it might look a little bit different. It might sound a little bit different, but you could see Blumhouse making a movie about a family that becomes consumed by a cult and has a telephone pole. It might.

[Sean Fennessey]

It might.

[Chris Ryan]

So I think I'm a little bit skeptical of, like, the artsy framework for some of this stuff, because Midsummer is the same thing. It's just like. It's a sunshine horror. There's a lot of sunshine horror movies over the years. But it's like the things that happen in that movie, people are, like, lit on fire. They fall off of cliffs and smash their heads open. Like, these are gnarly horror movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Midsommar's, I watched it once movie for me.

[Chris Ryan]

I watched it again after I watched Hereditary last night.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you really?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I said the first 45 minutes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Jets, Mets. Hereditary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was Jets Mets related. It feels like it's like, what's next? For me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I had a really hard night.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a Swedish vacation. Sweden. Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Sweden.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Those Swedes, you know, And a lot of the writing about this movie going back, because this was, you know, they, as you said, they shrewdly marketed it. And one of the things was about family. The family dynamics of trauma and grief and relationships and movies that got thrown around that allegedly inspired the director, Carrie the cook, the thief, his wife and her lover, the Ice Storm. Ordinary People don't look now.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On Tubi, by the way. Oh, yeah. Donald Sutherland, Julie Christie. Yeah. But I don't know, I think it's a horror movie. I know they rooted in this whole family thing, but it's pretty fucked up from the get go and you know something's wrong with the little girl and it's plus Gabriel Burns in it. When is he fucking normal ever?

[Chris Ryan]

He's a good point.

[Bill Simmons]

That is true. Oh, it's Beverly Hills Cop 4 with. Oh, and there's Gabriel Byrne. He's the wise connected sheriff.

[Sean Fennessey]

Gabriel Byrne never shows up. And I'm like, oh well this is gonna be a lot of.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Imagine being married to that dude. You think that he's the pizza slate from Postmates. You just grim look on his face. Well, no, I just see him.

[Sean Fennessey]

He was married to Pete. Alan Barkin though, wasn't he?

[Bill Simmons]

Was. He's just inherently creepy. He was.

[Chris Ryan]

She's. Where does she peak?

[Sean Fennessey]

Ellen Barkin is about as is she.

[Chris Ryan]

At the top of the list.

[Bill Simmons]

Like see Love, Ellen Barkin.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Maybe that's why Gabriel Byrne doesn't have a sense of humor is because he saw Sea of Love. What the fuck is that? Where's Al Pacino? Got you against the wall.

[Bill Simmons]

Why you keep saying, what are you looking for?

[Sean Fennessey]

Frank is angry.

[Chris Ryan]

Gabriel Byrne just angry. Bono.

[Sean Fennessey]

I feel like they're really close basically.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe you got an answer for that. Mr. President.

[Sean Fennessey]

Excuse me, Mr. President, why has Al Pacino got my wife against the wall?

[Chris Ryan]

Should Gabriel Byrne be added to the list?

[Bill Simmons]

We should win the Wayne Jenkins category. Yeah, he's creepy. You see him and you're like, all.

[Chris Ryan]

Right, that's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie is going to get weird. So the director Aster, he had a 75 page shot list. This was his first major movie. He had got hired for some short films and stuff and just seems like an actual, in a positive way, psychopath, when he makes a movie, sketches everything out. Meticulous.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is your guy, you know, this.

[Bill Simmons]

Is one of your guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I've interviewed him for every movie on the show. I think he's a genius.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not that old, right, is it? What is he, like mid-30s?

[Sean Fennessey]

Is he funnier than Gabriel Byrne, you think?

[Chris Ryan]

I wouldn't say. Ari is a laugh riot in general as a person, but he's super smart. He does do the things that you're describing that he, I think used in some of the promotion around the movie, which is he tends to say like, here's a movie that you can think about that is a little bit different, but close to the kind of movie I made. But I tend to think that a lot of that is just theatrics and that, like, his sensibility is fucked up in a very fun and entertaining way. And I do think he also is processing some real shit by making these movies in this way. You could not have come up with Hereditary or Midsommar or Beau is afraid if you didn't have, like, a world inside your mind that you're trying to get out. So I think he's technically basically top of the class from his generation. I think there's very few people who can kind of pull off the kind of things that he imagines. But the movies are all pretty funny. Like, I'm going to make a case that Hereditary is kind of a comedy.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're gonna make that case.

[Bill Simmons]

It's so ridiculous. It was under decapitation comedy. It's so.

[Sean Fennessey]

Slapped your head off.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's so absurd. And I don't think it's the kind of movie where you're like, this is a movie about processing grief. Like, it's not. The movie is about how we are fucking hopeless. Like, no matter what you try to do to get to the bottom of your feelings, go to counseling, go to a seance, have a deep conversation with your child, we're all going to fucking die. Like, we are cursed. Like, that's the message of the movie. That's super funny to me, that that's where he lands on it, because it's jets fan. Well, that's. Maybe that's part of the reason why I like this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think the Hereditary, Tony Collette's fan, passes the jets down.

[Chris Ryan]

The curse. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Toni Collette's performance has comic elements to it for sure.

[Chris Ryan]

She's really big in the performance.

[Bill Simmons]

Glad you brought her up. She's been in three best picture films. The Sixth Sense, the Hours, Little Miss Sunshine, plus Hereditary. Not nominated for this movie. And I actually thought she should have been because this movie did well and it was critically acclaimed.

[Sean Fennessey]

Should we.

[Bill Simmons]

Olivia Coleman won for the favorite lady from Roma. Nominated Glenn Close, Lady Gaga, star is born. The one that really stood out to me was Melissa McCarthy for can you ever forgive me. I just.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a fine performance.

[Bill Simmons]

It's fine. Toni Collette was amazing in this. I actually. I think she's a really good actress in general, but this and Little Miss Sunshine are the ones that I think jump out to me with her. Yeah, she's very good at playing completely frazzled but yet somehow weirdly confident. But then the frazzle beats the confidence.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a couple of, like, award reel, like, moments in this movie where she is giving a speech or something like that. But the things that blow my mind are like, you know, when she wakes Peter up and is like. Or not even wakes him up, but is like, I never wanted to be your mother. Like, that's. And then puts her hand over her mouth. Like, there are moments in this.

[Chris Ryan]

There.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's just unbelievable.

[Chris Ryan]

That's tough. She was nominated for 6th Sense and has never been nominated since. Which is kind of strange because you never walk out of a Toni Collette movie and be like, she wasn't good in that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's better in this movie than Sixth Sense. She's good in six.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's got more to do.

[Chris Ryan]

It's almost like a logical continuation in some ways. Right? Like, they feel like they're kind of in conversation with each other a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, let's get to the topic of what the hell actually happened in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

So I just wanted to ask, before we got into it, will you be referring to Paimon as Peter Payman? Like Damian Omen?

[Bill Simmons]

Peter Payman. Was that an XTC song?

[Sean Fennessey]

But you know what I mean.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you be Charlie Payman?

[Sean Fennessey]

I guess so.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's Payman now. Paimon's a different name. He wasn't payment all along.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's no Charlie, is what you have to understand.

[Chris Ryan]

It was always Paimon. It was never Charlie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Paimon was always Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

But Charlie existed.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, her corporeal form, yes, but not. Yeah, well, we should mitigate that.

[Bill Simmons]

So I did. Bullet points. Tell me where it veers off the tracks.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

The grandmother wanted her son to be the host, but he killed himself.

[Chris Ryan]

Correct.

[Bill Simmons]

The daughter, Annie, played by Toni Collette, her son was going to be the next host, but the grandmother was not allowed near the child. Grandmother and the mom reconciled in time for Charlie, the creepy little girl. And she was the wrong host. And, I don't know, the eight Kings of Hell, however this works, the Hell committee is this like the Board of Governors in the NBA? They convened and they were like, we gotta move that fucking house.

[Chris Ryan]

Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

Wrong.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's your favorite king? King of Hell. Who are your guys? When it comes to the King of.

[Bill Simmons]

Hell, I think the West Coast King of Hell was the biggest voice in the room. So you gotta move that host from Charlie. Gotta move it to the older brothers.

[Chris Ryan]

That guy was involved with Microsoft at the beginning too. So.

[Bill Simmons]

So Demons passed down. This is part of the theory into Charlie. It's generational hereditary.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And beheading, I guess, is the way to release the spirit.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. That's a good question.

[Sean Fennessey]

I hadn't gotten that deep into. I hadn't done that much tape watching, but it does seem like that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think beheading ties into it to release the spirit of Paimon.

[Sean Fennessey]

So he needs.

[Bill Simmons]

He needs an empty, exposed neck to pop out of.

[Chris Ryan]

I hadn't read that, but that kind of makes sense given the number of decapitations in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So my wife loves this movie, and it's one of the rare movies that I feel like she understands and can go way deeper than I can. And she was. That was her interpretation.

[Chris Ryan]

I like this.

[Sean Fennessey]

I hadn't ever thought about the beheading. And then because you get into the. Like, how much of Charlie's death is orchestrated by the cult and maybe possibly even Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

But there's beheading breadcrumbs throughout the whole movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

The bird gets beheaded. She's doing the model house. There's beheaded people in that. At the end, there's beheadings.

[Chris Ryan]

I think you're right. I think you're onto something.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, Sean. Hereditary demons don't have to just be payment, I think, is the other theme in this movie. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you mean?

[Bill Simmons]

It could be, I don't know, like, we were joking about the jets, but it could be depression, could be passed away.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. Anxiety for that. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All kinds of things. So, yeah, it's a metaphor of all these different terrible things that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it could be addiction. It could be whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

The problem that I have with this is that, you know, I'm a Mets fan as well, and the Mets did not exist when my dad was born, and he chose them, and then he gave them to me. So he was nine when they came around. So what is that? Like, what demon is that? Like a new demon?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's like a new demon. That's like a ninth king.

[Sean Fennessey]

Castaverde demon.

[Chris Ryan]

The ninth king. The ninth king was Fred Wolpon.

[Sean Fennessey]

The ninth king is Woody Johnson.

[Bill Simmons]

The Red Sox hit a dark spot where you were starting to wonder, like, did you want to pass this team to your kids? I remember writing about that in the early 2000s. Like, is this. Is this a team you want to pass? I kind of like hereditary.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you pass the jets to a child?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause I feel like none of this stuff after the Red Sox won and some of the other teams that have. With the Cubs winning. I just feel like all these teams. I don't believe in the curses.

[Chris Ryan]

This is how I know Bill is payment. Because he got all the championships I did. He got the riches. The wealth.

[Bill Simmons]

I was hanging out with a Dodger fan this weekend who asked, have you ever decided the concept of if we can just win these next two rounds, I'll trade you this. And I was like, it sounds like you're making an offer to like there's.

[Sean Fennessey]

A Dodgers fan who feels that way.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, they haven't really won since 88. They won the COVID They won the COVID year.

[Chris Ryan]

That is still a World Series.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but it's like, it's not like a real World Series.

[Chris Ryan]

I got no time for Dodger fans complaining about shit.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just like, I'd really like a real one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Also, I don't really feel like the Dodgers fans put their team under the kind of pressure that, like Phillies fans or cold weather. Cold weather or jets and cold weather.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's different.

[Bill Simmons]

Lots more to discuss with this movie. We get to the categories, but $10 million budget made.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait a minute. Was it Mary Hart? Was that the Dodger fan you were talking to you hanging out with over the weekend?

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Hanks, $10 million budget, 87.8 million. It made almost 100 million bucks. 824 highest grossing film until everything everywhere all at once in 2022.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Roger Ebert.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Do you think you would have liked it?

[Bill Simmons]

I can put that in chat GPT while we talk. But Sean, I wanted, you know, the audience pulled by cinema score.

[Sean Fennessey]

You could also just like speculate, you know Roger Ebert's work very well. You don't have to use.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he would have. This would have been a three and a half stars for him. I think Cisco would have hated it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cisco would have been like.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have been like, I walked out when the little girl got beheaded. I was. I left. But I think Raj would have been like, ah, family theme story. I'm in three and a half.

[Chris Ryan]

I agree. He loves characters. He loves strong female performances.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I hope that was a revelation. I think he would have raved about that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Gabriel Byrne. Laugh riot.

[Chris Ryan]

Gabriel Byrne Burns strikes yet again.

[Bill Simmons]

Creepy as hell. So CinemaScore, the audiences gave the film an average graded D plus. It's like one of the least successful cinema score movies that actually.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is why we shouldn't listen to Cinema score. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Cinema.

[Bill Simmons]

Cinema score.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's a poll that is conducted when people leave the movie theater and no.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, I know.

[Chris Ryan]

But, but they get. But what it is is it's not, did you like the movie? What grade would you give it? It's what did you think the movie was going to be when you entered the movie based on the marketing that you had seen? And then what did you, how did it match up to what you got in the movie? So oftentimes if you have movies that are like promoted as like a laugh riot or an action drama and then they're slow or they don't quite fulfill your expectations, then they tend to have low scores. I also don't really take any criticism or score based stuff that seriously around horror. I think it's like a pretty refined category in terms of taste.

[Sean Fennessey]

And also the people who routinely go see those movies are not paying attention to whether Roger Ebert would have liked it or not.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

ChatGPT is telling me Ebert appreciated horror films that pushed boundaries and he admired horror movies like the Exorcist in Rosemary's Baby. Ebert likely would have respected Hereditary for its craftsmanship and psychological complexity. But whether he would have fully embraced its darker, more disturbing aspects is up for debate.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's what we're going to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, Chat GPT they're gonna fucking replace us in a year. Certainly something we watch that on type.

[Sean Fennessey]

In the Chat GPT Do Gabriel Byrne getting upset that Ellen Barkin is having sex with Elliot?

[Chris Ryan]

AI can't do that shit.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll do that during the break. Which we're gonna take right now. Want to shop Walmart? Black Friday deals first. Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50% off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart Plus.

[Chris Ryan]

See [e-mail] this year Santa's bringing the power of Energizer into his workshop.

[Bill Simmons]

Whoa.

[Chris Ryan]

The Energizer Bunny's got so much power.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, he's powered up all the toys. I think that means we're done for the year.

[Sean Fennessey]

I love this buddy.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the hardest working helper the North Pole has ever seen. And he wants all your gifts to have the power of the number one longest lasting AA battery. So this holiday season, stock up on Santa's and the elves favorite battery, Energizer Ultimate Lithium.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, today's most rewatchable scene is brought to you by Paramount. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount plus that means a mountain of heart pounding action blockbusters like Top Gun, Maverick, Mission Impossible, Fallout and Gladiator, which Is worth a rewatch before Gladiator.

[Sean Fennessey]

You might want to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Got to wet your beak.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it would be helpful.

[Bill Simmons]

A mountain of jump scares with thrillers like Scream 6, Smile and A Quiet Place, Day 1. And A Mountain of fun for the kiddos with family favorites like if Paw Patrol, the movie Dora the Lost City of Gold. You've seen that one yet?

[Chris Ryan]

I haven't seen it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you know what's on Turtle right now?

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Sean Fennessey]

The cook, the thief, the wife and her lover.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting. Excited? This episode we'll discover.

[Bill Simmons]

Discover something new every week on Paramount Plus. So it's always weird when we have a horror movie with rewatchable scenes, but I do think this movie has some rewatchable scenes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I can give you Annie in the support group.

[Sean Fennessey]

My mom was old and she wasn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Altogether there at the end.

[Sean Fennessey]

And we were pretty much estranged before that, so it really wasn't a huge blow.

[Bill Simmons]

But I did love her, and she.

[Chris Ryan]

Didn'T have an easy life.

[Bill Simmons]

She had did, which became extreme at the end, and dementia.

[Sean Fennessey]

And my father died when I was.

[Bill Simmons]

A baby from starvation because he had psychotic depression and he starved himself, which.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm sure was just as pleasant as it sounds. And then there's my brother. My older brother had schizophrenia, and when he was 16, he hanged himself in my mother's bedroom.

[Bill Simmons]

And of course, his suicide note blamed her, accusing her of putting people inside him.

[Sean Fennessey]

So.

[Bill Simmons]

That was my mom's life. The group's like, whoa, let's take a break.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, I love that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Any more of these or just those two?

[Chris Ryan]

I love how that scene starts from an angle that is very far away and the camera's elevated. And very, very, very slowly it starts encroaching into Toni Collette's face while she's giving that performance. And you're like, oh, this is a generational nightmare.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

It would be amazing, though, if the next cut was just somebody being like, this is actually the quitting smoking group.

[Chris Ryan]

This is for nut cancer.

[Bill Simmons]

The party scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

Classic rewatchable scene there.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd love to really dive into this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Back into the left, Charlie.

[Bill Simmons]

One of the worst people you could bring to a high school party. I'm just going to say, Sean, you have younger siblings.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, my younger siblings are a lot cooler than Charlie. She better hangs than her.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably would have put up more of a fight. Like, hey, there's this girl I like. I really don't want to bring Charlie. I just bought this Teutonic pot.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a little bit of a strain of credulity there at that point in the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I do like the idea. So, like when, you know, when Peter's first in class and they're talking about Heracles and fate. It's like this idea of whether or not certain things in this story were fated and destined to happen.

[Chris Ryan]

I do have a question.

[Bill Simmons]

Like her eating cake with nuts in it.

[Chris Ryan]

So the question that I had for you guys. You know what? I'll save it. I'll save it for the category that makes the most sense.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have gotten her some Benadryl, but I think he was pretty stoned and then.

[Chris Ryan]

But I'm not sure if that would have worked. And that's related to my question.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe not. Driving to the airport and she leans her head out the window and telephone pole. Takes it off this telephone pole, removes the head.

[Sean Fennessey]

That was not. I shouldn't like.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a movie. We could laugh.

[Chris Ryan]

Super chill delivery of that faded news in the theater.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm really glad you brought this up.

[Chris Ryan]

Astoundingly startling. Like, truly, like, what the fuck, man?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like so effective.

[Sean Fennessey]

I also gotta say that this has become an obsession of mine. Is like contemporary trailers giving away too much of movies. Charlie, the Charlie death is not in the trailer.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

You think the movie is about Charlie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. You think that the whole thing is her grieving her mother's death.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an amazing. What the fuck just happened? I agree. In the theater, it's, you know, four, five, six times later after you watch this movie. It just has them the same impact. But it's awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

Have I told you my story about going to see this movie? I must have. What had happened? Because it was very memorable.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened?

[Chris Ryan]

So I saw this movie at south by Southwest and it had played previously at Sundance and there was a lot of buzz about it. And I was like, ooh, a fancy new horror movie. So exciting. So I went to a midnight screening.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was living. Staying with you at this time.

[Chris Ryan]

We went together. But you didn't come to the movie with me.

[Sean Fennessey]

I didn't.

[Chris Ryan]

And so I went to a midnight screening and it was at the Lamar Alamo Drafthouse, which is farther out of town. So you have to like drive 20 minutes to get out to that movie theater relative to where we were staying. So I went to the midnight screening, which was pretty crowded. And we watched the movie and we were like whole. This is very fucked up. This is a very. And it was 2:30 in the morning when we got outside. Very traumatizing. Called an uber get in an Uber, I'm driving for about five minutes and then we get viciously rear ended. Very intense car accident in the Uber. And so we pulled over on the side of an empty highway and waited for the cops to come. At 3 o'clock in the morning after just watching Hereditary Me, Uber driver who barely spoke English and the guy who hit us, who I think might have been drunk.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

I was fucking terrified. I was like, is this payment come to get me? So I will never forget seeing that movie for the rest of my life.

[Sean Fennessey]

And I remember he got back to the Airbnb we were staying in and you were like, I think I got up to go to the bathroom or something and you just gotten in. And I was like, yeah, it was.

[Chris Ryan]

Like 4:00 in the morning.

[Sean Fennessey]

How's it going? You were like, not good.

[Chris Ryan]

I wasn't doing well.

[Bill Simmons]

That just sounds like a horrible thing.

[Chris Ryan]

It was really rough.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's rough. Shocking. You know, very few movies kill off the character. You didn't expect to get killed off in the first like 40% of the movie and actually have a pull off in the stage.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the other.

[Sean Fennessey]

The other thing about it is I forgot about this is that Peter just shuts down and drives home and leaves the body.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I had some thoughts about that. Peter's post accident plan.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Peter Payman.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough, tough spot for the mom the next day.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like, man, that headless body looks like my daughter. There's blood everywhere. Wait, I recognize that shirt. I mean, I just. That's gotta be the number one worst thing you could walk into. And the screaming kind of fits.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, because they don't show it.

[Chris Ryan]

It holds on Peter's face when you hear the screaming. Which is a great choice.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife defended him. She's like, he's in shock.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Well, I don't know if.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sounds like your wife should be on this pod.

[Bill Simmons]

She loves this. My, her and my son love this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

It speaks very highly of your wife that she's so into this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, what about my son? Well, he likes all horror movies. They love this.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, you've conditioned.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, like you've trained this one.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, they watched it like two months ago and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? You guys are watching Hereditary again? You think it's like there's something about Mary like pop on Hereditary?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think you have a family of four with a boy and a girl? Do you guys relate to something about the film? Is there Something is my son painted.

[Sean Fennessey]

I will say, though. Well, we'll get to this part or this scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

But the last 40 minutes of this movie. Ara. If this is the last 40 minutes, I'm stopping to watch the end of this for this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, if you flip to it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, if you flip to it.

[Bill Simmons]

If it's on tv. Yeah. Forgot to mention the head with the ants. That's tough.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you clock at all the first time you saw it? Charlie cutting the head off the bird and then she gets her head cut off.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. They also drive past the lamppost very purposely.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I noticed that probably the third time I saw this movie. That there's designs on the features.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On the floor that matches her necklace. And some other stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a lot of, like, things that look like they're pointing in a neon red sign. When you go back and watch the movie for where it's all headed when you're watching it, you have no idea, really, what's going.

[Bill Simmons]

Annie's second meeting with Joan. Holy Cross Grad and Dowd. Yeah. Yeah. CR.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

HC in the house.

[Chris Ryan]

She brought a lot of that Jesuit training to this film.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Is she a few years ahead of me?

[Sean Fennessey]

The second most famous hc. Aluminum.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I mean, we had Clarence Thomas. Bob Cousy.

[Chris Ryan]

Number one is Joe House.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe House. Probably first.

[Chris Ryan]

Blue Boy. Where's Blue Boy?

[Bill Simmons]

He's in the top 30. Andy's second model with Joan. Right into Annie doing the car crash model. Where we get the paint thinner story.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Peter always held it against me. I would fucking hope so. When you were sleepwalking and poured paint thinner over him and his sister and you were holding matches. Yeah. I wonder if. And then.

[Chris Ryan]

Tough one.

[Bill Simmons]

I like when she's defending the car crash model to her husband. Creepy Gabriel Byrne.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a neutral view of the accident. Sean's right. This movie is kind of funny.

[Chris Ryan]

That's hilarious. Her daughter got decapitated in a car accident and three days later she was like, I'm going to make art out of this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's processing her grief.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. Honey, is the head too far away from the telephone pole? Would you move it back? Or closer. The dinner scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sneer at you. I don't ever sneer at you. Oh, sweetie, you don't have to.

[Chris Ryan]

You get your point across.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay, so fine, then say what you want to say then. Hey, Dad, I don't want to say anything I've tried saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so try again. Release Yourself.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, release you, you mean? Yeah, fine, release me. Just say it. Just fucking say it. Don't you swear at me, you little shit. Don't you ever raise your voice at me. I am your mother. Do you understand? All I do is worry and slave and defend you, and all I get back is that fucking face on your face. So full of disdain and resentment and always so annoyed. Well, now your sister is dead.

[Bill Simmons]

Reminds me of the SNL dysfunctional family sketch with Will Ferrell.

[Sean Fennessey]

And I drive it. I drive a Dodge Stratus.

[Bill Simmons]

I drive a Dodge Stratus. You don't talk to me like that. This is that version of that.

[Sean Fennessey]

All I do is worry, enslave and defend you, and all I get back is that fucking face on your face.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't you swear me. A little shit. The family seance.

[Sean Fennessey]

Just.

[Bill Simmons]

When has this ever gone well in a movie? Is there a time. Can somebody point me to the.

[Sean Fennessey]

Steve doesn't want to do it. He's like, this is crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Seance.

[Sean Fennessey]

Just.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No on the seance.

[Chris Ryan]

Especially after the person who's convinced you to do the seance is like, your whole family has to be there. And, like, here are the. Here's the language that I don't know what it is, and you have to read these words. It's like, hey, that's crazy. This isn't ideal. Don't. Don't pursue this.

[Bill Simmons]

When we were weird, our house was haunted before we found out that it was. People wanted to have before an official.

[Chris Ryan]

Ghost before weird shit Patrick Wilson came over and confirmed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Things are going great with the ghosts.

[Sean Fennessey]

But that's because he's like, you guys keep watching Hereditary.

[Bill Simmons]

You're my people. I finally found my soulmates. We had somebody suggest a seance, and I was like, there's no fucking way.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I do.

[Sean Fennessey]

Ernest suggested that, like, was there somebody, like, in Hollywood that could provide a.

[Bill Simmons]

Friend of my wife? It's like, just seance. Get it all out. I was like, definitely not.

[Chris Ryan]

Where are you at on Ouija boards?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no way.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

0% chance you're in every night.

[Sean Fennessey]

I've never done it. I've never done it. Yeah. I've never done a Ouija board. I don't think.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow. What's that about? You love board games.

[Sean Fennessey]

Who wins Ouija? Besides Satan?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean.

[Sean Fennessey]

Satan.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't understand that the demons have to just be laughing when people are like, let's break out a Ouija board. They're like, really? Look at these fucking idiots. All right, you want to play Ouija. You want this?

[Chris Ryan]

You love demons. Gosh, you just love a demon.

[Sean Fennessey]

But he treats it like the demons are at the high roller suite in Atlantic City. Like, oh, look at these whales. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Seriously. Oh, my God. There's no need to be scared to chase Chesterfield north. Over here. Annie figuring out the albums and books is a rewatchable Peter freaking out in the classroom. Leading to Annie showing her husband the attic. I have two more I wrote down. Gabriel Burton is on fire. And then Peter escapes to the attic. What's your most rewatchable scene, Sierra?

[Sean Fennessey]

All right, so it's broadly speaking the last 40 minutes, but I think it's from Steve burning to death.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

On more or less, it's.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. Peter wakes up, goes downstairs charred dad discovers charred dad. Mom's on the ceiling.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And before that, when he's in the bedroom, you see tough morning.

[Bill Simmons]

You see indications he hadn't even had coffee yet.

[Chris Ryan]

That part is so scary. So scary when you don't really fully understand what.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, because it's like you. She takes on Paimon once Steve goes up in flames.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Then she has to cut her head off to give Paimon to the dead body of Peter.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, she had good piano wire, though. She'd gone to Home Depot. I have a lot of questions, like, strong piano wire. I'll just tell you guys this. If I woke up the next morning and my charred father was in front of the fireplace, I would still make coffee because I can't really start the day without coffee.

[Chris Ryan]

I tell you what, that's a great game show idea, which is what would cost you to not make coffee.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd be like, well, I mean, he is dead.

[Sean Fennessey]

What if it was a notification on your phone that said Peyton Prichard scored 101 points in a game against the Knicks? Would you immediately go to last night's highlights?

[Bill Simmons]

You guys know I stopped for coffee when my wife was in labor. You know that story?

[Chris Ryan]

You've told that story.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but I know she was. Actually. I thought it was another false labor, so I was like, can we just stop at the Starbucks?

[Chris Ryan]

What'd she say?

[Bill Simmons]

Then we got there and, like, she's 4 centimeters dilated. She's still mad about it.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're like, I got this justified.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

First child or second child?

[Bill Simmons]

First child.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Well, you didn't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't know. What do you have for most rewatchable?

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's. It's same thing like the Steve goes up in flames, and then as soon as you see her like moving around in his room the first time in like shadow. Yeah, I was locked in, but also like this.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys are both wrong.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay?

[Bill Simmons]

It's the telephone pole beheading Charlie. That scene's amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

So you rewatch it all the time?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying that's the most. If that scene's coming up, I'm like.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, you really should do like an old school Madden telestrator breakdown of that scene. I would pay money.

[Sean Fennessey]

I just put the deer in the middle of the road and boom.

[Bill Simmons]

I might have something a little later for you guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Today's the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Paramount Plus. From action blockbusters to thrillers to favorites for the whole family, find something new to watch every week. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount plus plans start at $7.99 a month. Start streaming now. Woodsthe best the real estate. The house is great in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Utah, beautiful.

[Sean Fennessey]

Park City, baby.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good. I like the little creepy tree house. I like the driveway. It's just the perfect scary house.

[Chris Ryan]

I think one reason why I really like this movie is that I in my life before my life is over, I want live in a house like that. I want to live in like a secluded mountain town house with a little history.

[Bill Simmons]

Dark little inside, no little history.

[Chris Ryan]

But I worry that if I do that, I will be dooming myself.

[Sean Fennessey]

If you do that, no matter what the state of our relationship is, I want you to know that I'm going to paint a giant triangle on the.

[Bill Simmons]

Floor.

[Chris Ryan]

Before you move in. Chris, are you wearing a payment necklace?

[Bill Simmons]

Andy's work area is good too. I just, I like that whole thing. Another with age, the best bugs answer flies as a horror movie device.

[Sean Fennessey]

Hate him.

[Chris Ryan]

I just told him this. This is the one thing I can't always, always super.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, no, there's some bugs.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'd prefer if I have to have one or the other bugs I can handle better than mice in my life.

[Bill Simmons]

How about flies?

[Sean Fennessey]

Like lots of flies, but flies as like a death harbinger is really freaks me out.

[Bill Simmons]

The Anthony Amity Valhar did it really well.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they didn't do any spiders in this movie. To me that's the final breaking point.

[Bill Simmons]

I have more. But what do you have for what stage? The best.

[Sean Fennessey]

We kind of touched on this a little bit. But rewatching this movie when you know it's going to happen. So like this time around, for instance, it was like Annie noticing extra people at the funeral because that's the cult, right? Charlie and Annie talking about Annie's mom feeding Charlie and wanting her to be a boy. You're like, oh, right, because you wanted to be payment the bird. Charlie and Peter driving past the lamppost. All the stuff on the postcard where it's like, forgive me, you know, for everything. I couldn't tell you. But we're going to inherit, you know, whatever. So all the stuff that you pick up over and over again, like Sixth Sense, it has like durable rewatch ability because all these little signals are in.

[Bill Simmons]

There, I think way better executed than Sixth Sense. Like when I watch Sixth Sense now, I'm like, all right, Sixth Sense is like one trick. Yeah, this has. This is laying a lot more.

[Chris Ryan]

I think you're underestimating the Sixth Sense a little bit. I mean, I think there's like staging of scary sequences in that movie that are exceptional and upon revisiting them, you like them. But it is a movie that is hinged entirely on the twist. I don't think this movie is hinged entirely on the reveal. And it is chock full of like Easter eggs, for lack of a better phrase. I think it's also like, like I said, this kicked off a wave. Not just of there's kinds of horror movies, but like in five years a 24 does spring breakers, Ex Machina Room, the Witch, the Lobster, Moonlight, Best Picture Florida Project, Lady Bird, Good Time capped off by Hereditary, which is their biggest movie ever.

[Sean Fennessey]

And that's pretty much a generation of.

[Chris Ryan]

Filmmakers and that is they discovered a bunch of people who their first or second films, bunch of award nominations, you know, and movies that like people have a big relationship to from the last 15 years.

[Bill Simmons]

Did I ever tell you my theory about the lobster?

[Chris Ryan]

Fire away.

[Bill Simmons]

It sucked. So my next wood stage the best. Not a theory is what stage the best? The movie. The horror movie score in this movie, whatever they're doing, it's not like something you would play on Spotify or something, but there's just sounds and creeks and it's a little shining esque or shining just they're making weird noises. You're like, I don't like that noise. That's weird what's going on there. But I think they do a good job. Horror movies where someone hurts themselves is a good device. When. When Charlie started when Peter starts slamming his. See I was head against that always creeps me out.

[Sean Fennessey]

What's age the worst? Because it's actually been ripped off a bunch. Because they do it in Talk to Me, they do it in long legs Pretty much. They kind of do it in Smile where, like, I feel like the hitting your face thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

But that's suddenly out of nowhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Has this movie was ahead of that?

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm saying you're right. It can be best and worse because I think it's been ripped off a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

Good point. It is now like a trope.

[Bill Simmons]

You like long legs. Did you like that movie, Chris?

[Sean Fennessey]

Did you?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I didn't. Good try. Noble effort. I didn't like it, though. Can we get long Legs together with Nell?

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like Nell.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you like to order?

[Chris Ryan]

We should add long legs to the Tony Romo and Jim Nance and Long legs. Yeah, and long legs.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, I'll work on that.

[Sean Fennessey]

I also really like the.

[Chris Ryan]

I did not expect you to break out of long legs.

[Bill Simmons]

Sorry. I should award you.

[Sean Fennessey]

So they built the interiors on sets, on soundstages, but it's. It's very kind of like almost breaking the fourth wall at certain points of, like, the fakeness of the sets.

[Chris Ryan]

That was that amazing first shot with the slow push in and you're moving into the miniature and then all of a sudden you're in the room.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that for Great shot Gordo.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how to be Great shot Gordo for this.

[Sean Fennessey]

I actually had Steve on fire for Gordo, but Steve is on fire. Bang.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow. Now Mike Breen is a part of this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Steve throws the book in the fireplace.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like a double bag. Oh, man.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, my God. Anyway, yeah, that was cool.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage? The best endowed Hereditary. The Leftovers and the Handmaid's Tale. AKA the Dark Big Three.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, the Doom Queen.

[Bill Simmons]

What else could she be in that's more depressed than those three? Those are all high lottery picks.

[Sean Fennessey]

You should. Next time you do a Holy Cross.

[Bill Simmons]

Alumni Holy Cross, you probably live the Milady.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Inside joke for the Holy Cross people.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't want to break that.

[Bill Simmons]

I lived in Malady. That's like the furthest building away from where all the fun stuff was, where.

[Sean Fennessey]

They put all the payment heads.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like if you were a serial killer, you're probably in Malady. What stage? The best. The Halloween Classroom homage. Yeah, they even shoot it where the window is to the left. And I like that. Ari Aster.

[Chris Ryan]

He's got some moves.

[Bill Simmons]

Pay homage to the king. John Carpenter.

[Chris Ryan]

He's got some moves.

[Bill Simmons]

The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most gifable moment. Is it too sick to think it's Charlie putting her head out the window?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that's probably the one if you wanted to do, like, images immediately preceding a disaster. You know, those Twitter accounts? Like, that's the one I was hoping.

[Sean Fennessey]

That you would do Tony doing the piano wire thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Pretty grisly.

[Sean Fennessey]

After the last strikeout.

[Bill Simmons]

You might get your account deactivated.

[Chris Ryan]

Hit me.

[Bill Simmons]

As Aaron Rodgers rose into track or it would be given medals on X. Denise Benian Word the house for the scene. Stealing location. Great house, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi pursued happiness award. Best needle drop. Joni Mitchell. Right. In the closing credits.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the Judy Collins version.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it is.

[Sean Fennessey]

I will say. Collin Stetson, who did the music I. The. The. The double track of Reborn slash Hail Payment. Really great tunes.

[Chris Ryan]

You just run that while working out Hail Payment.

[Bill Simmons]

What'd you have for the big coon or burger?

[Sean Fennessey]

Where for best use of food and drink, chocolate bars.

[Chris Ryan]

Mm.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, I like it.

[Chris Ryan]

What about the. What about the. What Charlie eats? You know, the walnut cake?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, just Charlie Sweet tooth in general Cake.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's good. Butch's Girlfriend Award week link of the film. I'll go last. Unless you guys don't have one here.

[Sean Fennessey]

I just think that Peter's friends could have had a little bit more definition.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like when he's. When he's back in his panic attack.

[Bill Simmons]

He'S like, hey, man, you okay?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Nobody's ever just like, so what happened this weekend? You left a hurry.

[Bill Simmons]

Heard your sister died. Like, they don't even acknowledge it.

[Chris Ryan]

They're pretty rude. I feel like. Particularly his potential girlfriend. We could have had some more excitement there. It's like, is that your weak link? Yeah. I mean, everybody else in the movie is great.

[Bill Simmons]

This is barely a weak link. And it's not the movie's fault. This movie was hard to understand as you're watching it the first time. Yeah, the first time. You're just like.

[Sean Fennessey]

You just go with it.

[Bill Simmons]

What the fuck? Just ha. Yeah, it's one of those. You go with it, but you really need to see it a second or third time to put the pieces together. You watch it more from the eyes of like, Whoa, Oh. Oh, my God. Oh. But then, you know, the story part of it's a little harder to follow.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I think you've. I remember.

[Bill Simmons]

Not the movie's fault.

[Chris Ryan]

I remember very vividly getting the. Okay, the demon is in Peter at the end. You know, Peter is. Now he is the. You know, the product of the cult. But all of the choices that are being made or all the stuff that he's planting in the movie, it's hard to process those things the first time you watch it.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst. So Charlie's clacking noise, that great movie device, but my wife does it to fuck with me and I don't like it.

[Sean Fennessey]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she does it sometimes.

[Chris Ryan]

That is messed up.

[Sean Fennessey]

Will she do it from, like, another room? Where does she do it in front of you?

[Bill Simmons]

No, when they watch it. And then she'd be like, we watch Hereditary, and then she'll start doing it. She might be one of the eight kings of hell. I'm still unclear. We'll find out at some point. Maybe that's why I'm in the house of it.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that explains all the success in your career?

[Bill Simmons]

That's it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe that's the price coming in. That. That noise, though, it's messed up.

[Chris Ryan]

The one. There's a couple in the movie that are really, really jarring. The one in the classroom with Peter in particular, when it's almost like a closeup on the side of his head and you hear it, is upsetting.

[Bill Simmons]

Peter's really going for it in this movie in a couple spots.

[Sean Fennessey]

You mean the actor or the actor? Alex Wolfe?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think he's. I think he's appropriately in a fugue state of grief and PTSD from everything that's happened to him.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's a good actor and gives a good performance. I was bummed out to learn that he went fully method during the production of this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Should we do that now?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, Everybody call me Peter.

[Chris Ryan]

And he, like, introduced himself as Alex on the last day of shooting. You know, like, I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

The guy who's not like a. Like a thing. Telling the whole crew to call him by the character's name is just douchebag 101. It just is.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I agree, but it's just hilarious. I'm willing to give Daniel Day Lewis.

[Bill Simmons]

Daniel Day Lewis.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It should really be, like, four people on the planet who can get away with that.

[Chris Ryan]

After we saw Gladiator 2 on Friday, CR and I went to a bar, and the bar had, like, 25 TVs. Oh, my God. And all the TVs were showing sports. And then there was one TV right in the middle of the bar, and it was tuned to tcm. And Lincoln was on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And first of all, Chris and I were riveted. We were locked in on Lincoln. And he turned to me, in all sincerity, we had stopped talking, just the two of us watching Lincoln together, drinking a Budweiser, and he goes dead serious. This Is a rewatchable.

[Bill Simmons]

Lincoln.

[Sean Fennessey]

Lincoln is definitely a rewatchable.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'll check it out.

[Chris Ryan]

Janusz is cooking in that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

In that movie, Toni Collette talking about Alex Wolf playing her son. Alex just turned himself inside out. He wasn't particularly collaborative or enjoyable, I would say for anybody else, except for perhaps him in some weird fashion. But he's young. He'll figure it out. You know what? He did a great job. So who cares? That's the Alex fucking.

[Chris Ryan]

This guy sucks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was watching Jeff Chow, who we work with, sent me a video last night of some guy from nme, asked Jeremy Strong, like, what his favorite albums are. And he fucking no. Sold it so hard and just like took it so seriously and was just like astral weeks. And he was like, oh, yeah, when did you first hear that? He's like, who can tell? It's one of those albums that just seems to emerge and be with you your whole life.

[Bill Simmons]

Do we need to add Jeremy Strong to the win jackets category?

[Chris Ryan]

Dead Eyed Jeremy Strong.

[Sean Fennessey]

Jeremy Strong killing the vibe.

[Bill Simmons]

Jeremy Strong as Peter would have been an interesting little old choice. He's too old now, but like younger Jeremy Strong. That would have been fun.

[Chris Ryan]

I gotta say, Alex Wolf has been very good in some good movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So I don't want to like dump all over his career. But that story, when I read that, I was like, this is not cool. This sounds awful.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other what's aged the worst?

[Sean Fennessey]

I had the smashing your face thing because it's become such a trend in.

[Bill Simmons]

It is getting ripped up.

[Chris Ryan]

And I think elevated horror is not aged well. I think if you try to put those brackets around a movie, it's like, oh, you got to stick up your ass. And you think you're better than me.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Basically like a really boring two hour movie with a jump scare in the very end.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

You think you're better than me?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you're there with your ghost story. You think you're better than me?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You get a scare me.

[Chris Ryan]

You should do Sully reviews. Just like you come out of a.

[Sean Fennessey]

Movie sheeting this thing.

[Bill Simmons]

The Ruffalo Hannah Ruben Partridge Overacting word Not to keep picking on Alex Wolf, but why did you try to kill me?

[Sean Fennessey]

Tony gets this. Tony is like worthy of almost adding to the category title.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you think she went Julianne Moore Magnolia.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Don't call me ladies.

[Chris Ryan]

She is Linda Partridging. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's so good in this movie. She's a overactive.

[Sean Fennessey]

I just think she goes really big. You know.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Was there a better title for this movie? The Telephone Pole or Charlie's Head?

[Chris Ryan]

I think Charlie said would have been giving some Charlie said. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hereditary is good. I like it. Can you dig it? A word for most memorable quote. I never wanted to be your mother.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. And that's a really good tough one.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take a break, and then we'll do the hottest Take a word.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the sound of your ride home with dad after he caught you vaping. Awkward, isn't it?

[Bill Simmons]

Most vapes contain seriously addictive levels of nicotine and disappointment. Know the real cost of vapes brought.

[Chris Ryan]

To you by the fda.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does take award? What do you got? Cr?

[Sean Fennessey]

If payment calls you, you have the meeting. Right. Like, why. Why is. Why was it such a bad idea? Because I feel like ultimately what they're looking for from payment is, like, wealth.

[Bill Simmons]

Insight, five firsts, couple pick swaps.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. So, like, rather than get everybody in the family decapitated, maybe you just get your smartest guys in a room.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

And talk it out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Payment is pretty relentless.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. He's gonna get. It's like having a clutch player. Want to trade? It's gonna happen. It's just about how much pain comes along with it.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a somewhat related hottest take.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is that I think the cultists are onto something, but only with regard to not wearing clothes that, like, everyone is just like, if I've got payment, I don't need clothes. There's no such thing as shame or embarrassment. I can be my own true self all the time. Like, naked cultist in your attic. That's about as awful, as scary as.

[Sean Fennessey]

It is, it could possibly be.

[Chris Ryan]

But just from, like, a process perspective.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd still go with, like, beavers.

[Sean Fennessey]

What about them?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Just some animals that could.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that would have been scary.

[Bill Simmons]

Rabid skunks.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Then someone in control.

[Bill Simmons]

Naked cultists. No, I wasn't that scared of the naked people.

[Chris Ryan]

I think naked people smiling.

[Bill Simmons]

Skunk.

[Chris Ryan]

Or that threatening is pretty crazy. Like, they're. That shot of the trio of them up in the attic smiling. That happens very quickly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that is true.

[Chris Ryan]

That was pretty scary.

[Bill Simmons]

Skunks are pretty bad, though.

[Chris Ryan]

We're talking about demons here.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's my hottest take. This is my best one in a while. Making a horror movie about hell. Not hard, blank slate. Just get to make up anything.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh. Like, if it's about demons or anything, it's about hell.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's it's like you just. From there you just get to cook. It's blank slate. It's like, oh well, they kings in hell and pay him in. There's a host body. I think he did cut your head off and blow.

[Sean Fennessey]

He did the work though. I mean, the Grimoires have. He did a great job.

[Bill Simmons]

My point is nobody knows what hell is like. So you can basically do anything.

[Sean Fennessey]

I see. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You'd be like, yeah. Hell is the third quarter of a Carolina Panthers game when they're 1 and 15 and that's the. That's the gateway to hell right there. The third interception is when we go to like you can say anything because nobody knows what hell is.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you seen the new smile?

[Bill Simmons]

No, but I'm excited for it. I like the first smile. I thought it was pretty good.

[Chris Ryan]

The new smile opens up a lot of potential for setting a smile in the world of sports.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't want to say too much like Russell Wilson. Well, it's like what happens when a big crowd could be exposed to oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Russell Wilson or smile.

[Chris Ryan]

Russell Wilson just kicked my team's ass. So I'm not going to. I mean, maybe he is possessed by some sort of demon.

[Bill Simmons]

He might be possessed by AI.

[Chris Ryan]

I saw that take. Yeah, he's. He's. He. He needs to be deprogrammed.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you think he asks Chat GPT what Roger Ebert would say to Melissa.

[Bill Simmons]

George Casting what ifs? We don't have any because this movie just came out. So we need 15 to 20 more years to have stuff like Tom Cruise almost played Gabriel Burns.

[Sean Fennessey]

I sound like they got Toni Collette very early. Yeah, Gabriel Burns very early.

[Chris Ryan]

He kind of made it sound like he wrote it for Toni Collette.

[Sean Fennessey]

And then they got Millie Shapiro pretty early.

[Bill Simmons]

Who first was this accomplished musical? She won a Tony for a musical age 10. Michelle.

[Chris Ryan]

She brings this perfect vibe to this movie. She's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Who do you have for best? That guy. It's not a huge cast on this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Kathleen Chalfont, who plays the grandmother, plays Leah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's good. Deann waiters award and out.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

100% holy cross in the house. Yeah. I wonder if she went to Jody.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was there a Holy Cross basketball player who mimicked Deon Waiters game when I was there?

[Bill Simmons]

Not really.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

We weren't good enough. Recasting couch Director City. Back to Peter. Where's Lucas Hedges in this? Where's my guy?

[Chris Ryan]

He was.

[Sean Fennessey]

Can you imagine him doing Manchester by the Sea?

[Bill Simmons]

Just following that up with Hereditary. Like just. And then he could be sold in the bundle on Fandango. Yeah, it's like the Lucas Hedges dark movie two pack.

[Sean Fennessey]

Lucas Hedges Valentine's Day special.

[Chris Ryan]

And he'd be coming off Lady Bird. He was the prince of a 24 at this time too.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe he was busy. Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth or somebody else for Director's commentary.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sierra DB doing Hereditary. I see you, Ms. Joanie. For decades you've been preparing the path for king payment. And now he's finally here. You've gotten rid of Charlie and destroyed the Graham family so that Payment can take his preferred male form. And now it's time look to the northwest. Ms. Joanie. Hell is coming. We see you, man.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought for sure you were going to have her address payment and then.

[Sean Fennessey]

Otherwise you could do Collinsworth. Oh, Mike. See, this is why you don't stick your head out the window when you're going down the highway. That's rookie stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a new entry for this. Okay, because watching WNBA finals, our guy Ryan Ruko. Here comes the telephone pole. Got it.

[Chris Ryan]

The telephone pole. Decapitation as a three pointer is some of the best shit that's ever come out of this show. Breen going bang for every decapitation.

[Sean Fennessey]

Charlie's needs the EpiPen bang.

[Chris Ryan]

Got it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Half asserted.

[Bill Simmons]

Research apparently.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait. Chris and I have been. Have been working on the Coward thing a little bit. Oh, where I feel like coward the day after. Where he's like, the thing is with payment. Payment does not mess around. You know that Payment has a handle on the salary cap. You know that Payment is the master of his game. Paimon is not the eighth king of Hell. He's the first king of hell.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he just stares in the camera after cut to JMac nodding.

[Chris Ryan]

Good point, Colin.

[Bill Simmons]

Great points, Colin. So they showed hereditary in Australia accidentally to a movie theater full of families that had 40 children in it. And it was mistakenly shown.

[Sean Fennessey]

It was the trailer or is the whole movie?

[Bill Simmons]

The whole movie. And it went badly. There's an article Betty can find. So apparently Aster and an unnamed financier fought about the final cut of the picture and he had to protect it. There's a lot of stuff on the Internet about this.

[Chris Ryan]

Seems like he was proven right.

[Bill Simmons]

He wrote. He was a. I'm writing detailed biographies and backstories of every character in the movie. Guy. Yeah, I like those guys. Just like. Honey, what are you doing? I'm gonna go to the coffee shop.

[Sean Fennessey]

And just write down what Steve was doing. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What did Steve do out of college?

[Chris Ryan]

What was he, a therapist?

[Sean Fennessey]

He's a therapist, which is hilarious. He would have gotten my Vincent Chase if we had done that category.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's good for sure.

[Sean Fennessey]

If you're a therapist and you're living with Annie and you're not like, we gotta Annie.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take an hour here.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it seemed like he had some good instincts once upon a time. Cause we know he put together a no contact policy with her mom. He knew her mom was destructive, but for whatever reason, he was just like, ah, I guess it's.

[Bill Simmons]

The composer. Colin Stetson found inspiration for the score through the sounds of Water and animals while walking around in Pitch Black Night. He sounds fun. To crawl inside the skin of Peter. Oh, we did that one. Did you guys watch any of the cutscenes?

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Sean Fennessey]

In your Internet research?

[Bill Simmons]

I did not. The movie is over two hours.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a cutoff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I don't need deleted scenes. If you're watching, there's some good ones.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's one of Peter goes up to the treehouse after Charlie's death to sleep where she used to sleep. And he lies down and starts to fall off. And he looks over and his mom's already there, sleeping.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Sean Fennessey]

And it really freaks him out. And it starts his kind of being really timid about her. And like, you're making that face on your fucking face. On your face.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, that's good. And you also imagine Peter would be pretty timid because his mom almost lit him on a fire.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not what you want.

[Bill Simmons]

Bang, here comes the telephone pole.

[Chris Ryan]

Got it.

[Bill Simmons]

And Rebecca, that head's rolling around the highway. Apex Mountain.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you want to weigh in on that? That. That final call? What? In regulation last night.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, the.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, what was the final call?

[Sean Fennessey]

He had a financial interest in that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but just the liberty.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it was an absolute. Vince McMahon. David Stern called in.

[Chris Ryan]

It really was league. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They were just. Collier, 23 shots at zero free throws and got hacked on the final shot. It was outrageous. Apex Mountain. 8, 24.

[Sean Fennessey]

I would say probably everything everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I agreed. Tony Collette.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, I think that would probably be. I would say yes. What's.

[Chris Ryan]

Hmm. I don't think I looked enough at her career. I mean, it's definitely up there. Is this the part that she will be remembered for?

[Bill Simmons]

I would say Little Miss Sunshine only.

[Sean Fennessey]

Because it felt like that opened for.

[Bill Simmons]

A bunch of stuff for her.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think Little Miss Sunshine is a movie personally, that I feel like has gotten kind of like lost to time.

[Chris Ryan]

A Little bit.

[Sean Fennessey]

And I think I was just talking.

[Bill Simmons]

About what that did for her.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sure. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I thought that was a really important movie for all the people in that Corel. Corel, Paul Dano.

[Chris Ryan]

She's been a part of some big movies. I mean, you know, she was a big part of Knives out, too. You know, like, she. There's tough.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah, I forgot that.

[Bill Simmons]

She's been pretty steady here for 25 years.

[Chris Ryan]

She's always good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, 30 years.

[Sean Fennessey]

Apex Mountain for nut allergies.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, shit.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not prepared for that one.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's just like, they're so conscientious about Charlie's nut allergy until. Why don't you go to a party with your brother?

[Bill Simmons]

How did Culkin die in Bees. My Bees.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. That's a very good.

[Bill Simmons]

That'd be a good list. Apex Mountain for child reactions.

[Sean Fennessey]

Tragic reactions.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, I mean, this is definitely the height of child movie death. Except maybe the kid in Jaws.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you want to do that? Let's do that. Unanswerable question right now, if you don't mind that allergy attack. That's Paimon, right? That's not an allergy attack. That's Paimon saying.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but they say later, the parent says, when the mom is making him feel bad, she says, you knew.

[Sean Fennessey]

And isn't he, like, center with me? Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, when they're doing the shitting on each other.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but isn't payment compelling her to go have the cake? Because he wants out?

[Bill Simmons]

This is what I mean.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, once you move into hell, you can make up. Yeah, he's responsible for the peanut butter.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did the cult put the deer there?

[Chris Ryan]

Same. Yes, great point. Because the cult obviously knew the telephone pole significance because it has the impression.

[Sean Fennessey]

That is like a real. Like a bunch of things have to happen the right way. But then you get into fate, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, Satan moves in mysterious ways.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

That's how you end up with Aaron Rodgers as your quarterback.

[Chris Ryan]

I really feel like he's Payman.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like Payman Rogers.

[Chris Ryan]

The final stage, like the ultimate manifestation of this curse. We need to break it.

[Sean Fennessey]

If Aaron Rodgers showed up tomorrow with, like, nose padding on, would you be surprised?

[Chris Ryan]

Does it end ultimately in him be decapitated On Television by T.J. watt with your offensive line?

[Bill Simmons]

It might happen.

[Sean Fennessey]

The only other piece of Internet research I had was that, oh, we already moved on Apex Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, give it to us anyway.

[Sean Fennessey]

One of Peter's friends is in the fucking cult. One of the guys he's smoking weed with under the bleachers winds up being in the culture.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting. Like, we see him later.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's just like the idea that they're like. Everything that they do is basically like the cult has their fingerprints on it.

[Bill Simmons]

Beheading scenes.

[Chris Ryan]

I had that. Decapitations. I think it is. I think it is Apex Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

What else is in the running?

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a really great one in Akira Kurosawa's Ron.

[Chris Ryan]

That is a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Black Rain with Andy Garcia?

[Sean Fennessey]

There you go.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say this one. This one has three.

[Bill Simmons]

The telephone pole is the best one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I don't know. The piano wire is gnarly. Also. I love that you can hear the head hitting the floor even though the camera's on Peter. I like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Alex Wolf. Yes. Gabriel Byrne.

[Sean Fennessey]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Usual suspects.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Miller's Crossing.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, somewhere in the 90s. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Dating Ellen Barkin.

[Bill Simmons]

Evil tree houses. That's about as bad as it goes for a treehouse.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm trying to think of another evil treehouse.

[Chris Ryan]

There's an evil treehouse in Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice in movie theaters right now.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Good. Son's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Discovering your dad's charred body and then deciding to make coffee first before you call the police.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's Apex Mountain for that.

[Bill Simmons]

For me, Seances. No. Beheading yourself with piano wire. Definitely Utah. Probably the Jazz making the final set in Utah.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's never explained.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is going to be good. Cruise or Hanks. So remember, we can have either of these guys at any points of their career.

[Sean Fennessey]

For this, I have Hanks as Steve.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's Hanks as Steve, too. I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you young, early 80s as Peter. Move Cruz as Peter.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. You can do that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's the answer. Craig, you be tiebreaker. You can get an early 80s.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's a tiebreaker. If we both said Hanks, Cain and Peter.

[Chris Ryan]

There's three of us here. I think Hanks.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it's Hanks. All right. Sorry, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, listen, I want Hanks to win every time.

[Chris Ryan]

Is. You're so competitive. Is. Is there.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want it for Hanks. I think he needs it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you move the scale? Like, sliding on the timeline?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, for what?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, can you go young? Crews and young.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what he's doing.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's saying, like, outsiders, Crews.

[Chris Ryan]

But I'm saying, like, is that part of the question every time?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Because some. Sometimes there's not a part for Those guys. So you have to get a little more creative. Racehorse rock band, wrestler, fantasy team name. I'll give you Hereditary just as a horse. King Payman or Eight Kings of Hell as a fantasy team name.

[Chris Ryan]

What if you just named your racehorse Payman?

[Sean Fennessey]

I think you would be hard pressed.

[Chris Ryan]

To not bet on that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Name would be a pretty good horse name.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Peter Payman.

[Sean Fennessey]

Peter Payman.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Payment an actual, like, satanic name or did they make it a.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, it's real.

[Chris Ryan]

It's real.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's real. The. Like, they're like, a bunch of occult.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Hereditary as a horse name. Okay. Picking nits. I have a bunch of them, but why don't you guys go, and then I'll wait.

[Sean Fennessey]

Does Pete smoke too much weed? Like, it seems like they would be on top of that. A little bit maybe. Like, I, you know, I know legalization has swept the country, but he's smoking a lot of bowls, and I think it's affecting his judgment. Well, he's smoking in his room, so they must know.

[Bill Simmons]

So they sister did get beheaded on his watch.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you shaming him for smoking weed?

[Sean Fennessey]

I just think that if it's. It's like, almost weirdly like, this thing he does that keeps him in a haze. You wonder if Payment is sort of affecting him in that way. I couldn't tell if he's, like, the school dealer because his friends all seem to want to hang out with him to smoke a bowl.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a good point.

[Bill Simmons]

CRs. Like, back in my day, we binge drank, and then it was like, who's sober enough to drive us home? And we throw the keys to Kenny.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right. Who's the Mark Sanchez of my group?

[Chris Ryan]

Does. Does Annie just forget that Joanie is close friends with her mom?

[Sean Fennessey]

No, she doesn't know.

[Chris Ryan]

But how does she not know?

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like I had that as a picking. I know her mother's secret is her mom's there. They're in the same thing. She's gonna run into that lady at some point, be like, oh, that's Joan. That's Mom's in the neighborhood.

[Sean Fennessey]

I mean, I think that the idea is that Annie and her mother have a pretty fractious relationship and that she may not be, like, all over her, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, here's my biggest nitpick. How did Annie even get married? What a fucking nightmare she is. Can you imagine being like, yeah, Gabriel Burns? Like, yeah, I met somebody. Who is it? Well, she's a little bit of a handful. Mom's definitely A little nuts. And she makes model houses and has meltdowns and everyone in her family died of something.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think she does quite well for herself though, right? The model houses. The Archer Gallery is all over.

[Bill Simmons]

The implication is the sex had to be just incredible. He's like, I'm going to overlook all.

[Chris Ryan]

The family deaths and your crazy mom.

[Bill Simmons]

Because holy shit, you rocked my world last night, Annie. I'm coming back for more. Oh, my God, dude.

[Chris Ryan]

The implication is that Annie and Steve are fuck bunnies. Like, they are just so into it with each other that he, as a therapist, is willing to overlook her clear relationship to demonic possession.

[Sean Fennessey]

Depression.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. Sometimes the sex can be that good.

[Chris Ryan]

Really good take.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay, is that your Coach Finstock life lesson?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, if the sex is good enough, you will allow the eighth king of hell to enter your life.

[Bill Simmons]

Steve's overlooking a lot. Yeah, Like a lot is like, including her mother sobbing when it's not well.

[Sean Fennessey]

Apparently also the mother possibly breastfeeding the daughter. Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But is.

[Bill Simmons]

Steve's like, wow, that's weird. All right, I'm gonna go to work. Yeah, I should be home by 5:30.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's like, I'm gonna go watch the jazz. Jazz Nuggets. Local rivalry.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of Karolenko night.

[Sean Fennessey]

Doing bobbleheads battle in Mountain time zone.

[Chris Ryan]

Is the implication that Annie's mom has already accumulated some wealth because she has devoted herself to payment? Like, she gets to be this art that, you know, Annie gets to be this artist that comes from family money.

[Bill Simmons]

Seats, cover charges.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think that the idea is the reason they need payment to come through is to get stock tips.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

All right. That's good.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, the Jordan Belt especially.

[Bill Simmons]

They knew the sports gambling craze is coming.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Boost Dodgers, Yankees, lock it down. Down.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, you got a party.

[Sean Fennessey]

Ionescu is gonna go 1 for 19. Take it to the bank.

[Bill Simmons]

Why would anyone want Peter to take Charlie to a high school hangout picnic when the kid's like 13? Well, that's. The evil spirit intervenes on that one sometimes.

[Chris Ryan]

You want your kids out of your house, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I guess, but. Go play in the tree house. Well, she doesn't want her up there.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, the. That scene is. It gets into, like, whether or not, like, how much culpability Annie has with that and like, whether she was like, kind of just like, get this kid out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two big ones. Why didn't Peter lock his bedroom door at night? With fucking multiple locks, I don't think it works. After the paint thinner thing, I'm like, mom, no offense, but I went to the Home Depot.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's another thing, is that Steve seems to.

[Bill Simmons]

And I put three locks on my door, and when I go to bed at night, all of those doors are. All of them's gonna be locked. So I'll just see you in the morning. Done.

[Sean Fennessey]

That would be a great Home Depot ad campaign.

[Bill Simmons]

The Home Depot don't end up like.

[Chris Ryan]

Peter for keeping payment out. Yeah, lots of good stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

The Home Depot.

[Sean Fennessey]

They're a sponsor today, actually.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. I love the Home Depot.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you for keeping the demons out of our homes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is my big one, though. And this is a passion point of my wife with this movie. Why didn't Peter get arrested, at least bring him in for questioning?

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, do they. There's only one mention of the cops when Steve's like, we gotta call the police. And she's like, the police can't help us. But are we to take it that there was no investigation into the car accident?

[Bill Simmons]

Was he drinking? Was he like.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, he was definitely inebriated.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they're. They're definitely bringing him in.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he's, like, back at school shortly.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like, hey, Annie, this is Charlie's teacher. Charlie hasn't been in for the last few days. Well, Charlie got decapitated four nights ago, so she's not coming in. Not telling the police about that. Nothing. This just comes and goes. Decapitated little girl. Like, no newspaper coverage. You've done a really good job of Salt Lake Tribune. Not on this.

[Chris Ryan]

Bringing how you raise your father's energy to this pod.

[Bill Simmons]

The girl's head got chopped off.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Sean Fennessey]

What would that do to her find my iPhone thing, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

Really good point. Probably still wearing a pocket, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Here comes the telephone. Got it.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel, prequel, Prestige tv, all black cast or Untouchable? I think there's a prestige TV case for this, and we've kind of seen versions of it on Netflix. Like sanitized Scary. What's that guy's name? Mike. Whatever. Mike Flanagan. Mike Flanagan.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sanitized Scary. Is that a seventh category?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's just when you're dragging it out. So you get like 8, 8, 9, 10 episodes. So scary. Yeah, Slow burn scary.

[Chris Ryan]

I did find myself having the lizard brain reaction after watching it last night of just like I would watch the Reign of Paimon. Like, I would watch the next movie about what happens to Paimon inside of Peter's brain.

[Sean Fennessey]

The hard Part about it is, it's like, who's even against Paimon? Because they've cut out all the, like, you know, everybody in that family is dead except for.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just Joe Douglas and Woody Johnson. That's it.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's like, does Paimon go back to school the next day? Does Payment show up like Teen Wolf?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I'm pleased to introduce our new general manager. Payment.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Payment had to take a few days off after repeatedly slamming his head against the school desk.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but does he show up?

[Sean Fennessey]

Does he wear the crown to school?

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, he's just, like, owning it. It's like Teen Wolf.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think. Do you think Steve and Annie ever got it on while Payman was inside of Annie? Oh, like, was there any, like.

[Sean Fennessey]

No. Payment's only in there for a few minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

And it's after Steve gets burned alive.

[Chris Ryan]

It's only a few minutes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought the implication is, is that he's like. Because, you know, you see the light throughout this movie. The light kind of flickering around and the blue light. He's kind of, like, jumping in and out of people at times.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, I didn't notice that this time.

[Chris Ryan]

And, like, what if Payment was like, I really gotta. I gotta get this out of my system, you know? And Steve looks horny.

[Bill Simmons]

Payment.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Horny payment. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Sam Jackson, J.T. walsh, Byron Mayo, Harley Mays, evil laughing Roman, Ramon Raymond, or Philip Bicker Hall? I think there's a Sam Jackson case for, like, being the teacher.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Fate.

[Bill Simmons]

Talking about fate. Just mix him into this for no reason.

[Chris Ryan]

Payment, do you speak? Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

They are seven other kings. It would also be good if. If Harling Mays was one of Peter's friends. And Peter's like, dude, last night I decapitated my sister. And he was just like, open up for the banana boat, big dog. Banana boat's coming.

[Bill Simmons]

Your sister's head's covered in ants. Banana Boat time.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, boy.

[Bill Simmons]

Just went.

[Sean Fennessey]

What's the cigarette? Is the cigarette. That's the cigarette dipped in cocaine. That's the banana boat.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he only smokes bowls, but still, just one Oscar. Who gets it? Colette, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Tony?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Yeah, I think so.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably Unanswerable questions. Do you get what you deserve if you do a seance? I think is an unanswerable question that deserves to be mentioned. I have a lot of questions about the eight kings of Hell.

[Sean Fennessey]

Me too.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they divide territory and conquer? Do they work together? Are there little factions within the eight Kings. Why do we need eight, do you.

[Sean Fennessey]

Think, like, the other seven were like, I don't want to live in Utah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, give that to Bob.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, give it to.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Bob's got the. He's got that whole side of the country, whole West Coast.

[Chris Ryan]

These are good questions. I don't have the answers. You're well studied on Satanism.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think that.

[Bill Simmons]

What does that mean?

[Sean Fennessey]

I've watched a lot of movies about it. I do wonder about what the seven other Kings are up to. And also, like, on the org chart, where's Paimon, you know, like, how many interesting questions of management below Satan. Is he.

[Chris Ryan]

Is he more of a head of content or more of an editorial director?

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he a director of player personnel? Is he a gm? Yeah, see? Executive vice president, Ca.

[Sean Fennessey]

Or a clutch guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Owner, Son.

[Chris Ryan]

More of an editor at large. You know, like, he just kind of roams.

[Bill Simmons]

We hit everything else.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. I was just also, like, at the end of the movie when Joanie is kind of like, bring us good fortune and good familiars. I'm just curious what Paimon's like. What does Paimon do the next day? I guess this is.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I'm saying. I want to see the reign of Pain. I want to see, like, how he enacts his power when he's in Peter's body.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think Ari Aster thought about a possible, like, cult sex scene and cut it out because it was too much for short term?

[Chris Ryan]

If you've seen Midsommar, you know that's.

[Bill Simmons]

Where he got it out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice, the Ice Storm.

[Sean Fennessey]

I had Exorcist 3 just to shout Exorcist 3 out. And it's a really good possession movie. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, Craig did note that I had the ultimate double feature with the jets game last night, that there could not be two more demonic possessions more powerful. But I think the reason that I think this movie is funny is I think it's really. Even though he doesn't cite it, I think it's really, really connected to Rosemary's Baby, which is like a harrowing and scary movie, but also kind of hilarious. And especially the final scene of Rosemary's Baby is very funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I think he's trying to operate in a similar register, so I would pick that movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's got his father's eyes.

[Chris Ryan]

Bang.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy Red Sid Watney Award. What happened the next day? We talked about, like, what's. Did Paimon go to school the next day? I Think. Is it like Boy in the Plastic Bubble?

[Sean Fennessey]

I was mostly obsessed with the idea of, like, what happens when, like, the gardener comes over.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm seeing multiple decapitated bodies up in the tree.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is that like a fertilizer thing?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I'm going with nothing. Which I think is the first time I've ever answered that.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think Peter's nose padding, that's become like a Halloween costume.

[Chris Ryan]

The miniatures are pretty cool.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm good. I don't want anything from this movie. I don't want any of it stink.

[Sean Fennessey]

You don't want the Joanie's chalkboard?

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing.

[Chris Ryan]

What if you could have the telephone pole implanted in front of your home?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing. Not one thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

That would be awesome if that was the only Halloween decoration you had was the hereditary photo.

[Bill Simmons]

Just people posing with their head next to it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Finstock award. Best life lesson.

[Sean Fennessey]

Bring an EpiPen.

[Bill Simmons]

How about move out if your mom tried to kill you with paint thinner and then was like, oh, my bad. I'm out. I'm going to Uncle Bob's house. Or whoever. I'm out.

[Sean Fennessey]

It sounds like the entire family was down bad, so. Cause Uncle Bob was dead.

[Chris Ryan]

I think one of the lessons is.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't go to Uncle Bob's house. He's killed himself.

[Chris Ryan]

It's important to build a strong community. I feel like the cultists did a good job. Like they actually just executed on the plan really well in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

And they also saw the long game.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they were very patient. Now that is an unanswerable question we forgot to mention, which is why did they wait so long to try to make the shift from Charlie to Peter that's unaddressed. I don't know what the answer is.

[Sean Fennessey]

Maybe they wanted Peter to hit a certain level of maturity.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I feel about Drake. May.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you breastfeed Drake? Maybe. Please answer.

[Bill Simmons]

Russian. Payment or trick Bank. Let's take our time. I know Mayo's not the long term coach for him, but let's. Let's just try not to get him hurt.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're already out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You think you're going to be able to get Ben Johnson in the off season? It's going to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't want Ben Johnson.

[Chris Ryan]

It's going to be a team.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't want to play car.

[Chris Ryan]

What?

[Sean Fennessey]

What do you want?

[Bill Simmons]

Mayo's not going anywhere.

[Chris Ryan]

He's.

[Bill Simmons]

We got three years of Mayo.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Seems like you're really excited about it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's going to be terrible. Who won the Movie?

[Sean Fennessey]

Ari Aster.

[Chris Ryan]

100%. Ari Aster. Ari Aster.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he would say a 24.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be a good answer. I think they were kind of already off and running by the time this movie came around. But I don't know if you've even seen Beau is Afraid, but Beau is Afraid is such a crazy movie that was made because of the success of this movie that like, it is so unusual because that movie cost $35.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's like a blank check. Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a crazy thing that he pulled off of that movie. And it's because this movie did so well. So I think because of that he got to get this three movie run of weirdness. And now next year he's got Western Eddington. That's his next movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you guys are right. Shout out to Toni Collette though. Cause I feel like I needed this for the IMDb.

[Chris Ryan]

She's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is gonna get dark again. Cause we're gonna ask producer Craig, who hates horror movies, what do you thought of Hereditary?

[Sean Fennessey]

I think this movie is sick and it's for sickos. And I don't think this movie should exist. And I think Ari Aster should be in jail. He shouldn't be allowed to direct any more movies. Did you think it was funny?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is. This was the most horrifying shit I've.

[Bill Simmons]

Ever seen in my life. And we shouldn't make movies like this. This is not good for. So you haven't seen Midsommar yet? No, and I won't unless you make me. I won't.

[Sean Fennessey]

People shouldn't see these types of movies.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my take. Midsommar in the first eight minutes is like, seriously, man, what the fuck?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it works really well.

[Sean Fennessey]

Midsommar's opening act might be sadder than the end of Hereditary.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I had a feeling you weren't gonna like it, Craig.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, was this your first watch of this movie?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, and he was like watching it in the office. Like when I came in. He was just like, I'm not really paying attention to this. I can't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

I've been forced to watch more horror movies because of the rewatchables than I've seen in my life. Like 10 times the amount I've probably seen. I like movies like the Shining and Silence of the Lamb.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

As you were talking about at the start of the show, that's kind of in a different bucket.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

This type of horror movie I actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Think should not be.

[Sean Fennessey]

You probably have a workers comp claim at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a HR violation.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think a movie can be genuinely evil?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean, we talked about that with Poltergeist, which had some weird shit happen to it. The Exorcist is probably the closest. I think that really fucked with people.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And even now, like, people go to the stairs and they get freaked out by it. It's probably the closest. Right. What do you think?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Like, when I think of the Exorcist, obviously there's a lot of terrifying things that happen in Reagan's room. But the things that I'm most scared of is very similar to the stuff I'm most scared of in this movie. Like the Spinal Tap. Like when the Spinal Tap is happening in the Exorcist, and you're just like, we don't know. It's a supernatural film. Really. You just think that there's something really wrong with this girl. And they show us that, like, the medical world can solve it. Even going to the farthest reaches of science. The same thing is true in this movie. Like when you're. When she's in the therapy scene or when they're at the funeral and she's giving the eulogy and she's like, my.

[Sean Fennessey]

Mother was a cold woman or whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. She's like. She had secrets. It's so interesting seeing all of these new faces and you're just like, God, this is fucking upsetting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I do think there's something in this movie that is kind of ineffably dark that sticks with you.

[Sean Fennessey]

I would like to see a hereditary sequel that had Paimon versus Pazuzu from Exorcist. Two of the greats, Little bird Jordan, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, hereditary 8. Paimon versus Pazuzu.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be pretty good.

[Sean Fennessey]

I do wonder if I could condition.

[Bill Simmons]

Myself how many horror films I would need to watch where I started to like them. You know, I think you're either in or out.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're also watching them in not ideal circumstances, but I'm doing that on purpose. I would never put this movie on.

[Bill Simmons]

At 10pm on a Saturday night.

[Chris Ryan]

So you weren't given these movies as a kid?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Cause I think that's really the key.

[Bill Simmons]

Given by my parents.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like, you have to watch, like, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Have to be indoctrinated. It's kind of like how Peter's family indoctrinated him into the depths of hell.

[Chris Ryan]

If under the age of 10, you're shown something that is gateway and fucked up, you're more likely to be interested.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why I showed my kids Halloween before they were six.

[Sean Fennessey]

That was actually an act of love. Don't you think we've gotten too. The filmmaking is too authentic, it's too good. Now Exorcist and Halloween and Poltergeist, the way they're filmed, the way they look, they're palatable. Well, you're just saying that. Cause that's like an earlier time and that's. But like when you're watching Hereditary, you're like, this could be my family.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. And I know that in the moment when they watched Exorcist, they didn't feel like it was dated. However, I don't think we will look back on hereditary 30 years from now and say this filmmaking style is dated. This doesn't look real.

[Chris Ryan]

I disagree. Really? Yeah. Cause I think my version of that, I've talked about this before is screaming and Jack's wearing the Scream T shirt right now. Scream. I was 14 when it came out. And when it came out, even though that's a super self aware and funny movie, I was scared out of my wits watching that movie. And you might have said that that movie is so different from Halloween. But just like each generation, the movies change a little bit. The energy, the tone changes, the way that it looks changes a little bit. But that's what I mean when I say like, if you see this at a young age, the whole genre will like stick to you forever. And if you don't see them at a young age or you're, you're shielded from them, it's impossible to get involved at like 25 in horror movies.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with that.

[Sean Fennessey]

I just think Hereditary will be scary 30 years from now for somebody who.

[Bill Simmons]

Watches it for the first time.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. But Halloween or the Exorcist might not be.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't think the Exorcist would be scary in 30 years? I still think.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, I'm saying I don't think the Exorcist is scary right now for a 25 year old in the way that Hereditary would be. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause it's been. It's like pro wrestling. It's like Jimmy Snow. Good. Jumping off the top rope seemed amazing in 1982.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think we've reached a level of filmmaking where aging worse, the curve has slowed.

[Bill Simmons]

We talked about this when we did the Exorcist pod. I don't know how many years ago that was, that how dated it was, but it was still fucking scary.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, but it was just scary lining up for the Exorcist the same. I mean, it's not that dissimilar from when we were talking about Blair Witch, where it's like there is a almost suspension of disbelief to the point of, like, did this happen? And people were watching Exorcist and having their, like, worldview changed.

[Chris Ryan]

I think there's a small piece of the puzzle too, which is like, you're never gonna see the Exorcist for the first time on a big scre at this point. And most of these movies that we're talking about, when you see them at a young age, you're seeing them in that environment. Like, you guys are having the Blair Witch conversation and you guys both saw it probably the same screening in the same movie theater.

[Bill Simmons]

It's crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

And that was Sierra Leone might have.

[Bill Simmons]

Been in the same place like, four times in the late 90s, early 2000s.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's very possible they could make it. When Harry Met Sally about us, you know, it's like, there's Bill or CR both at the model.

[Bill Simmons]

And also just kind of someday we'd find each other. And you did, Sierra. Great C, Sean. Great C. Produced by Craig Horlbeck. As always, check us out on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel where you can watch all these scary mo. Scary Month concludes next week, and I don't know what we're doing, so stay tuned.