‘Hitch’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mina Kimes

Summary

The Rewatchables: “Hitch”

With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mina Kimes
Date: July 21, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of The Rewatchables spotlights the 2005 romantic comedy “Hitch,” starring Will Smith, Eva Mendes, Kevin James, and Amber Valletta. Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and special guest Mina Kimes dive deep into the film’s legacy at the tail end of the great rom-com boom. They analyze Will Smith’s unlikely but undeniable rom-com charisma, the movie’s industry-breaking casting politics, and how “Hitch” marks a crossroads between two movie eras. The trio also wrestle with where “Hitch” stands among romantic comedies, its social politics, and what—if anything—might feel dated in 2026.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The End of a Rom-Com Era

[02:37–06:02]

• “Hitch” arrives in 2005, at the tail end of a 15-year rom-com boom that began with “When Harry Met Sally” in 1989.
  • Bill Simmons: “We’re kind of at the tail end. And yet here comes Hitch—and it’s the most successful rom com of all time to that point. So why? What happened?” (03:03)
• Will Smith emerges as a rare male focus in a genre usually built around female leads.
  • Mina Kimes: “What makes this a rare rom com in the pantheon is it’s not about the women... There aren’t that many huge rom coms where we think about the guy. Actually, ‘Crazy Stupid Love’ is kind of up there too, right?” (03:13)

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Will Smith’s Star Power & Rom-Com Legacy

[03:35–06:19 & 16:03–18:12]

• Will Smith’s intentional career choices: blockbuster-centric, with “Hitch” being a notable exception.
  • Bill Simmons: “He famously studied all of the most successful movies… Rom com was not on the list.” (06:02)
• Smith as an “elevation force:”
  • Mina Kimes: “Any other actor coming in and playing this role downgrades the movie from an A-minus to a C-plus.” (17:58)
• Smith’s singular likability is core to the film’s appeal—but “the slap” at the Oscars changed that perception for some.
  • Bill Simmons: “His likability is 99% of why this movie works.” (11:55)
  • Mina Kimes: “Post-slap, could he make ‘Hitch’ now? No way.” (11:38)

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Race, Casting, and Hollywood Politics

[04:01–09:16]

• The strategic casting of Eva Mendes—a Latina actress—was a "split the difference" move for global market palatability, reflecting industry anxieties about black-led rom-coms with interracial or all-black lead romantic pairings.
  • Van Lathan: “If you do it with a white woman, you piss the sisters off. If you do it with a black lady, then maybe audiences don’t go to see it.” (04:30)
  • Mina Kimes: “I can imagine them putting up the faces on the board and suggesting, how about an Asian actress? Do we know any Latinas? ...she kind of splits the difference.” (05:18)
• Comparison with earlier Hollywood history: referencing Eddie Murphy’s lack of onscreen romantic scenes pre-“Boomerang,” and Hollywood’s discomfort with black male leads in “mainstream” romance.

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Chemistry, Cast, and Comedic Balance

[10:26–12:00 & 18:45–22:38]

• Smith’s chemistry with Kevin James stands out.
  • Mina Kimes: “My biggest takeaway… Kevin James is delightful in this movie.” (18:50)
  • Van Lathan: “I invented a category... the Tom Arnold award—did the second guy steal the movie? Kevin James… kind of stealing scenes from Will Smith in this movie.” (19:10)
• All four leads are endearing and work together in a classic “four-handed” rom-com configuration.
• Amber Valletta and Eva Mendes both identified as talents who, for various personal/career reasons, didn’t fully realize their star-potential after this film.

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Rom-Com Evolution & Genre Dissection

[22:41–32:46]

• “Hitch” is positioned as the last of the big, “traditional” rom-coms before Apatow-style (more “com” than “rom”) and ensemble-driven (“Valentine’s Day”) movies take over.
  • Bill Simmons: “This is like the end of the… whatever era of rom coms we had, because now we’re moving into the Apatow era…”
• Streaming has “professionalized” the genre, so new rom-coms often feel algorithmic and generic, outside of a few standouts (e.g., “Set It Up,” “Palm Springs”).
• The ingredients: successful rom-coms need both “rom” and “com,” but only few balance both effectively.
  • Van Lathan: “You gotta have ROM and COM. A movie that is really funny, but in no way loses the romance.” (32:01)

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“Hitch” and the Pickup Artist Era

[33:43–36:33]

• The movie’s release coincided with the rise of “pickup artist” culture (e.g., “The Game” by Neil Strauss, TV personality “Mystery”).
• Unlike many dating guides of the mid-2000s, Hitch’s approach is explicitly pro-woman and anti-“negging."
  • Van Lathan: “Hitch is the rare Coxman who also loves and respects women.” (35:18)
  • Mina Kimes: “The politics of Hitch’s picking up women—he likes women. Hitch doesn’t nag.” (35:12)

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Will Smith’s Unmatched Impact & Generational Stardom

[16:03–17:00, 88:08+]

• For a generation, Smith was unparalleled—“there’s just no stars like this who dominated the landscape the way he did.” (Mina, 15:00)
• Drawing parallels with the MVP in sports: Smith “elevates the surrounding cast” and can turn a “C+ script into an A- movie.”
• “Hitch” is cited (by Van) as the purest showcase for Smith’s stardom—no sci-fi, no action, just charm and presence.

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Debating the State and Future of Rom-Coms

[70:42–71:46, 114:03+]

• Modern dating culture needs less “red pill” energy, more Hitch.
  • Mina Kimes: “We now desperately need a Will Smith in the world to counterpill all the incel, red pill, pod manoverse. We need Hitch more than ever.” (70:42)
• The pod questions whether likable, big-budget, star-driven rom-coms are even possible anymore, especially as “likability” itself has limits in today’s media ecosystem.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Will Smith is an incredible rom com actor and his chemistry is what makes this movie sing. It would not, I think, be nearly as good if it was anyone but Will Smith in the starring role.” – Mina Kimes [03:13]

“His likability is 99% of why this movie works.” – Bill Simmons [11:55]

“Hitch is a mythical character. He is the rare Coxman who also loves and respects women.” – Van Lathan [35:18]

“Any other actor coming in and playing this role downgrades the movie from an A-minus to a C-plus.” – Mina Kimes [17:58]

“I invented a category. The Tom Arnold category for did the second guy steal the movie?... Kevin James... kind of stealing scenes from Will Smith in this movie.” – Van Lathan [19:10]

“My biggest takeaway… Kevin James is delightful in this movie.” – Mina Kimes [18:50]

“The smoothest thing a guy can do is catch and release—as, like, attacking.” – Mina Kimes [64:58]

“We now desperately need a Will Smith in the world to counterpill all the, like, incel, red pill, pod manoverse. We need Hitch. We need Hitch more than ever.” – Mina Kimes [71:05]

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Highlighted Segments with Timestamps

The Rom-Com Boom’s End & “Hitch” as a Capstone

• [02:37–06:19]: Summing up the 15-year arc of the rom-com era and contextualizing “Hitch” within it.

Will Smith’s Stardom and its Relationship to “Hitch”

• [16:03–18:12]: Will Smith’s generational star power and suitability for “Hitch."

The Racial Politics of “Hitch”

• [04:01–09:16]: Deep dive on casting Eva Mendes, Hollywood’s discomfort with black male leads in romance, and how that changed over time.

Kevin James: The Secret Weapon

• [18:45–22:38]: Celebration of Kevin James’s “scene-stealing” supporting role, debate if he almost stole the movie from Smith.

Rom-Com Ingredients and Evolution

• [22:41–32:46]: How “Hitch” fits, and doesn’t fit, the classic genre conventions and why it’s so rewatchable.

Most Rewatchable Scenes (§ Popular Delights)

• [43:09–55:44]: Round-table picking favorite scenes—dance lessons (“You live here!”), the disastrous food allergy dinner, Will’s advice, the wedding dance scene, Jet Skiing on the Hudson, and more.
  • Dance lesson scene receives unanimous praise for perfectly blending comedic and romantic chemistry (19:48, 20:01, 61:57).
  • Van’s pick: “When Kevin James slides in and accuses Will of stealing his girl—kills me every time.” (61:21)

“What Aged Best/Worst” Categories

• [62:48–71:46]:
  • What works: Will Smith’s charm, classic rom-com structure, positive approach to dating.
  • What’s cringe now: Some physical gags, busy tabloid newsroom, allergy scene, Michael Rapaport as “likable friend.”

Rom-Coms and the Changing Nature of Male/Female Likability in Hollywood

• [12:00–14:49]: On the fleeting nature of likability, and why even icons like Will Smith or Tom Cruise can’t sustain 100% approval forever.

The Social Impact of “Hitch” and Modern Dating

• [70:42–71:46]: The movie’s surprisingly positive, earnest politics feel fresher than much of today’s dating discourse.

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Recasting, What Ifs, and Theoretical Sequels

• [91:48–95:17]:

  • Patton Oswalt was second choice for Kevin James’s role.
  • What if Will Ferrell had played Kevin James’s part?
  • Who could be the “Kevin James” type in 2026? (Jack Black, Seth Rogen, Jonah Hill floated.)

• [114:03–115:17]:

  • Should there be a “Hitch 2”? Should Smith return? Is he “too old” for rom-com shenanigans now? How could the premise modernize for today’s dating scene?

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Apex Mountains and Double Features

• [102:09–105:04]:
  • Will Smith: Peak is “Men in Black”/“Independence Day,” but “Hitch” is up there.
  • Eva Mendes: “Hitch” is arguably her biggest/career-height film.
  • Kevin James: “King of Queens,” “Hitch,” and the meme-able rise and fall discussed.
  • Double feature: “Focus” with Will Smith and Margot Robbie is a natural twin; “Crazy Stupid Love” and “Six Degrees of Separation" also recommended.

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Quickfire Awards & Running Gags

• Tom Arnold Scene-Stealer Award: Kevin James
• Best Needle Drop: Usher’s “Yeah” soundtracks the dance scenes ([48:53], [72:53])
• “Floyd Gandali” Random Joys Award: Will Smith being “smooth,” Hitch giving unexpectedly feminist dating advice
• Most 2005 Detail: Stephon Marbury-era Knicks cameos, tabloid office, and PDA/camera use
• Weak Link: Dubious chemistry between Smith and Mendes (Van’s take), Michael Rapaport as “likable” friend (Mina’s flex)
• Memorabilia Pick: Will’s remote-control apartment controls, the walkie-talkies ([123:24])
• Best Real Estate: The brownstone where Kevin James goes for the first kiss—revealed to be Sarah Jessica Parker’s house ([77:46])
• Picking Nits: How is Kevin James’s character that clumsy yet so athletic? Does the newspaper office make any sense? Does anyone eat whipped cream out of the canister when heartbroken?

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Final Thoughts & Who Won the Movie

• Bill, Van, and Craig (and, at length, Mina):
  • Will Smith remains the core, the MVP, and the reason the movie works. Kevin James nearly steals the film but doesn’t quite—Smith’s “superstardom” is too formidable.
    • Van Lathan: “He wins, but Kevin James almost gets there.” (125:22)
• “Hitch” is a “millennial classic” with warmth, memorable scenes, and surprisingly enduring ideas about romance, likability, and what people want in both movies and dates.

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For Those Who Haven’t Seen “Hitch”

Expect:

• A genuinely funny, well-cast comedy.
• Will Smith at the last peak of his full-power likability.
• A reflection of mid-2000s Hollywood’s anxieties and biases.
• The last stand of the classic four-handed rom-com—before the streaming age took over.

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Best Quotes to Remember:

• “Will Smith is an incredible rom com actor and his chemistry is what makes this movie sing.” (03:13, Kimes)
• “We need ‘Hitch’ more than ever.” (71:05, Kimes)
• “The smoothest thing a guy can do is catch and release.” (64:58, Kimes)
• “I invented a category… did the second guy steal the movie? Kevin James…” (19:10, Lathan)

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Listen to this episode of The Rewatchables to revisit why “Hitch” still slaps (and dances) nearly two decades later.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find Van lathan on like 17 Ringer podcasts. You can't find Mina Kimes. She's on ESPN. She talks football. Catching her in July, probably the last time we'll ever see her before the NFL swallows you up. You got like a month left.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm doing the fantasy show to talk about the hottest quarterbacks, so.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right. Oh really?

[Craig]

We're unveiling the hottest quarterbacks in the NFL.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you like Maxim magazine for

[Craig]

the mid 2000 Jimmy G retired and we're like, well, who's number one now?

[Mina Kimes]

I have takes.

[Bill Simmons]

Did Jimmy G Retire?

[Craig]

No, I don't think he's.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm holding off on my takes until

[Bill Simmons]

got a couple years left.

[Van Lathan]

He's still young. What is he, like 34, 35, kicking around?

[Craig]

Yeah, I don't know if he's going to play this year.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Will Smith was 37 when he did hitch that.

[Mina Kimes]

He looks so much younger to me

[Bill Simmons]

in this season and we are going to cover that one now.

[Mina Kimes]

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[Bill Simmons]

Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun.

[Van Lathan]

An army hung on her every word.

[Mina Kimes]

My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it.

[Craig]

Tonight we feast.

[Mina Kimes]

An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Bill Simmons]

So the last time the three of us got together we did Crazy stupid. Love a 2010 Rom Com. This is a 2005.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Will Smith is 37 years old. It's at the end of a 15 year Rom com boom, right? Which if we're starting with like When Harry Met Sally in 89, we're ripping through Meg Ryan's basically done with this. Julia Roberts has done Drew Barrymore, Reese Witherspoon. We're kind of, kind of at the tail end. And yet here comes Hitch and it's the most successful rom com of all time to that point. So why what happened Will Smith?

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, what makes this a rare rom com in the rom com pantheon? And I think it belongs there. Obviously, financially it is, is it's not about the women. Even menes is good in it. We'll talk about that. I think she's great in it. But there aren't that many huge rom coms where we think about the guy. Actually crazy Stevie Love's kind of up there too, right? Because he's Gosling. But Will Smith is an incredible rom com actor and his chemistry is what makes this movie sing. It would not, I think, be nearly as good if it was anyone but Will Smith in starring role.

[Bill Simmons]

And the only other time he really tapped into this was Focus.

[Mina Kimes]

Also a great movie, sneakily.

[Bill Simmons]

First rom com he ever did. Focus. Not a rom com, but it's like we've already done it on rewatchables, but same kind of thing. Other than that, why not Van? Why not more? He just wanted to be in outer space or be the last man left on earth.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's like. I think it's tricky as a black male lead in rom coms. I mean, we're gonna talk about that when we talk about some of the politics behind the movie. I don't know if it's like as easy for the black male lead to do the rom com because of some of the dynamics behind the racial play and stuff like that that comes into it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that happened going back to the 80s when they wouldn't let Eddie Murphy kiss anybody basically for every movie he was in finally, until Boomerang, but then that was like an all black cast basically.

[Van Lathan]

Right. And that's an amazing rom com with beautiful black people. And it's not regard. It's not one of Eddie Murphy's gigantic hits. It's like people a lot of times in that they don't want to see that. That's not something that people are always readily like. It's not accessible to them. And for Will, it puts you kind of in a kind of a fucked up situation. Cause if you do the movie with a white woman, then you piss the sisters off. And the community's like, what are you doing? Right. If you do it with a black lady, then maybe audiences don't go to see it. And at that point, that's the furthest thing from what they wanted.

[Bill Simmons]

That's in the research.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They. Basically, the conundrum with this was he was a global superstar, but an all black cast for a Rom com would not have been a global.

[Mina Kimes]

When I read about that and the decision to make it Eva Mendes, to kind of split the difference, I was thinking about how, you know, the episode of the studio where they're casting the Kool Aid movie. And I was like, literally when they were making Hitch, I can imagine them putting up the faces on the board and suggesting, how about an Asian actress? Do we know any Latinas? And then being like, all right, well, she kind of splits the difference. But I think you're on to like, why isn't Will Smith, who's amazing in rom coms. I Close to his best self? I think in this particular style movie, why isn't he? And more. It seems financial to me. Right? Because this is a guy who's so deliberate about only wanting to be in the big until he did some more artistic stuff. The biggest blockbusters. And because of rom coms and the politics you talked about, he was limited in that particular genre.

[Bill Simmons]

I am Legend and After Earth and all these other ones are just gonna make way more money. And that's it. And Will Smith, like pretty famously studied all of the most successful movies of all time. Was like, I have to do this. I have to have a big action movie. I gotta go to outer space. And Rom com was not on the list.

[Mina Kimes]

And this made a billion dollar bazillion iron.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this movie made $370 million. But it's interesting that they had to basically walk through the science of how to attack this. It was a little like the Paul George trade and how it's going to work out for the Celtics. Man, they had to use the advanced metrics.

[Mina Kimes]

Who's Jalen Brown?

[Bill Simmons]

To really do something.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't know who Jalen Brown is.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, it's Cameron Diaz.

[Bill Simmons]

But the. Right.

[Craig]

But the split.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, by the way, it would have been so good in the same way. Would have been awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

So split the difference. You basically have to go Latino or Asian. Like, what, is there anything else?

[Van Lathan]

You go Latina. You go Latina in that situation. That way nobody's pissed off. It doesn't and no one's jarred and the movie sells overseas. But you know what was interesting, you know, I thought about this. Did not in any way hamper the Bodyguard. The Bodyguard made even more money than Hitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Way ahead of its time.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, drama, though.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, drama.

[Mina Kimes]

Key distinction, I think.

[Van Lathan]

Very key distinction. But still, though, the audience and whatever. And Kevin Costner just wouldn't have done it. He loved her so much on screen and in real life, he had to

[Bill Simmons]

make the movie Van and I did Bodyguard for rewatchables. Just the two of us.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Mina Kimes]

Just people Photoshop your face.

[Van Lathan]

Right. So, like, you know, he would have had. But in that particular movie, it's also. It's a different story, to your point. But, like, audiences did accept that black

[Bill Simmons]

woman, white guy, though it is different.

[Van Lathan]

Once again, like, love scenes in the Pelican Brief taken out of the movie. Taken out. That's.

[Bill Simmons]

That's 90, 92 or 93.

[Van Lathan]

Love Field, a movie that was really well regarded, like, critically. Didn't do that well commercially because people

[Bill Simmons]

are not golden child, Eddie Murphy, 1986. They had to cut the scene. And Charlotte Lewis was, I think, Filipino or Asian. I can't remember what she was.

[Van Lathan]

Bad is what she was.

[Bill Simmons]

But they. They were like, we can't even do

[Mina Kimes]

this other than this movie. What? Interracial rom coms. They've even crossed 100 mil. Like, been massive blockbusters.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, here's the difference. Focus comes out in 2014, and it's will Smith and Margot Robbie and nobody blinks.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So I think something shifts between the mid 2010s and the mid 2000s.

[Van Lathan]

Well, they have rom coms that are about this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but I'm saying, like, nobody. They just make that movie and it's. And she's the girl from Wolf of Wall street, and nobody says anything. But in 2005, it's a huge part of the research. I was surprised, I'd never thought of it, that they were really like, yeah, if this character is a black woman, we're not gonna make any money overseas. Like, you have to understand that. And Will Smith, they go through the whole thing.

[Mina Kimes]

Do you think that's as true now, where it's like, okay, if this isn't because crazy rich Asians, now one of the most successful rom coms of the last decade or so. For years it was like, well, you just make a movie with Asians, nobody's gonna watch it. If you just make a movie with that. Leads are all black. Nobody's gonna watch it. Do you think that's Chang that changed. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just feel like we're at a different last 12 years. I would say we're in a different place, man.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna be real with you, man. There are some things that are enduring. And if you make a rom com with a black male lead and a white female lead, you got some historic puddles to jump. I'm gonna just watch the movie and laugh as, like, I'm gonna have fun. And then I'm gonna look at some people I'm watching the movie with, and they gonna be like, yo, why isn't that Regina Hall? It could be like. It could be like, yo, man, was Nicole Behari busy. How come that couldn't have been a. There's just something. I'm not saying that it won't. I'm just saying that there are certain things about America that are zoomers, are

[Mina Kimes]

the nickelandria generation, maybe. Do you know about Nickelandria?

[Bill Simmons]

What is it?

[Van Lathan]

Love Island.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, the most popular Love Island. No, I think you don't see it a lot. And yeah, Cameron Diaz. There was another actress who they mentioned. Cameron Diaz was the main one. I forget who it was. Oh, it's a black actress. When they were kind of split the difference. I think she would have been. I think anybody would have been good with Will Smith, candidly. I mean, the guy. I think that was my main takeaway from rewatching it. The guy has chemistry with, like, a pencil. Kevin James.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, he had chemistry with Kevin James.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I got a lot. I got a lot of Kevin James shit to talk about, man.

[Mina Kimes]

So this movie works.

[Bill Simmons]

Classic rom com structure. We have the confident, handsome guy with all the secrets. We have the goofy, awkward guy who's unlucky in love and needs help. We have the smoking hacker who only cares about her job, doesn't have time for anything else. And then we have the second smoking hot actress who's too good to be true. She's just super wealthy but can't find love. And she's a model and looks like a model, and it's literally played by a model. It's like, how's she gonna meet anyone? This is too intense. And somehow all of these things collide into one giant plot. They figure it out. I was surprised. Van. This movie slaps hard.

[Mina Kimes]

Will Smith surprise.

[Bill Simmons]

Will Smith joke. Oh, man. Come on, bro.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't get it.

[Bill Simmons]

So when you watch Hitch, do you have any Will Smith Oscars baggage as you watch him?

[Van Lathan]

You know, you keep saying this.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm really scarred by the Will Smith act.

[Van Lathan]

This goes to the conversation that we had before. But, like, you're so scarred by. You're still scarred by the.

[Mina Kimes]

I just wonder if there's like a

[Bill Simmons]

darkness lurking behind the shadows.

[Mina Kimes]

Here's the question. Post slap, could he make Hitch now?

[Bill Simmons]

No way.

[Mina Kimes]

Or any, like, super. Any. Cause again, Hitch works because he's the most likable man on the planet.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Mina Kimes]

Literally. That's why I did it.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what the Oscars pulled away.

[Mina Kimes]

That's what I'm. Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Basically took his cape off for being the most likable guy on the planet.

[Mina Kimes]

His likability is 99% of why this movie works.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I agree.

[Van Lathan]

So I completely agree with you guys. And I understand the reality that for some people, Will Smith is less likable after what happened. But it is so difficult for me

[Bill Simmons]

to fathom how and why it's not less likable. He was the most likable forever. Everybody loved Will Smith. Unanimous approval rating. Nobody was out on Will Smith until

[Van Lathan]

the Oscars, But I honestly think a lot of that was already gone.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that's how I feel to you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's about to win the Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

He was like, win the Oscar.

[Mina Kimes]

We knew too much about his family.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of that part's true.

[Van Lathan]

I think a lot of that was. And also that's the reason why you shouldn't chase likability, because it is impossible to maintain. Tom Cruise was the most likable guy ever. Tom Cruise was the Will Smith slightly before Matt Lauer. And then.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you understand riddling Matt? Do you understand?

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

It's a disease.

[Van Lathan]

You're glib. Stand on the couch, Matt. The whole nine. Him, like, laughing, talking about L. Ron Edwards.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't want to hear that. That's.

[Van Lathan]

People think that now, look, that's like

[Bill Simmons]

one of my favorite.

[Van Lathan]

Now here's the deal, though.

[Bill Simmons]

You've seen that, right, Craig? It's a lot of people.

[Van Lathan]

That is their Tom Cruise. But he endured. And now Tom Cruise.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a likableness.

[Van Lathan]

And I think the same thing can happen for Will, even though I get how jarring the slap is for people.

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Cruise argued against the concept of postpartum depression to Matt Lauer with Matt Lauer. This is a YouTube clip that exists, right? It's like watching a UFO land out.

[Van Lathan]

He lectured Matt Lalle.

[Mina Kimes]

Have you ever seen the clip of Tom Cruise on 106 and park? Where you know that clip I'm talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the bigger question to me is how long can 100% approval rating like ability last?

[Van Lathan]

It doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel it now at Taylor Swift. Clooney.

[Mina Kimes]

I still feel that way with Clooney. Clooney, I guess like the Biden family.

[Van Lathan]

The thing about Clooney is that if

[Bill Simmons]

that were true, I do. I like Clooney.

[Van Lathan]

I like him. But if that were true, the movies wouldn't be struggling. Like, they are so, like, true.

[Bill Simmons]

Or he picks bad movies.

[Craig]

Because what you're really talking about is you have to be truly an AAA lister and be super likable. Clooney was not at Will Smith level. Taylor Swift is at Will Smith. Will Smith level.

[Bill Simmons]

Was. Is she?

[Craig]

In terms of.

[Van Lathan]

That's gone.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she invited Dean Blandino to her.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, my God. We're talking about.

[Craig]

It's hard to maintain that likability when you are truly that famous for your whole career.

[Bill Simmons]

I think because you don't have a normal life.

[Craig]

Yeah, Clooney can come and go. Taylor Swift is in your face.

[Van Lathan]

And we can know. What we're really not talking about is that type of likability. It also breeds contempt. After a while, people will, number one, find somebody new to like. And then once they find somebody new to like, they're gonna find all the reasons not to like you. They're gonna compare you to this new person. And then also, once people have gotten their feel of you, they're just gonna look for reasons to hate you.

[Bill Simmons]

You know who's maintained it? Steph Curry.

[Mina Kimes]

I think he seems like a genuinely good person.

[Bill Simmons]

I think most people like him. I don't know anybody that doesn't like Steph Curry.

[Mina Kimes]

That would be so strange.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody's like, I fucking hate Steph Curry.

[Van Lathan]

What you do.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, to go back to your question, I didn't. I wasn't thinking about this lap at all. I didn't not enter my brain once watching this film. I can separate the art from the artist. Unlike some. No, for me, what it did was. Took me back to being. I wasn't 13 when this movie came out, but I was the peak. Will Smith, and this is, I think the very near the end of his absolute height as an actor coincided with me being in middle school and early high school. It's so generational for me. When he was the biggest star on earth, my family would go to the movie theater to see every single one of his films. Independence Day, Men in Black, the Wild Wild west is coming out. Terrible movies, too. Like, I was in, I think, eighth grade when Getting Jiggy Way came out, which was like Laser pointed at like 14 year old white girls living across America. So just watching him, it just takes me back to being a kid and thinking like, there's just no stars like this. Who dominated the landscape the way he did.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that, and that's why when I say like I, I think about the slap when I watch a movie like this now, it's not like the slap itself. It's more like you're watching somebody who

[Mina Kimes]

had it, who had it right where

[Bill Simmons]

he could make a mov. Where it's like, this script isn't even that good. This movie's probably 15 minutes too long. It's all over the place. But it's like he's so likable. And it's just, you just want to hang with Will Smith, which is what every movie with him was for 20 years.

[Van Lathan]

So I was with Will from the beginning. Like, I'm that old. I'm that old. I'm just old enough to have like witnessed the inception of Will Smith's career. From Parents Just Don't Understand all the way through the Fresh Prince all the way to like, hey man, bad Boys. This is slightly believable. Like Will could be a badass. Then Independence Day will be Mike Lowry. Mike Lowry, like that. And then Will becomes the biggest superstar that there is. And you're like, whoa, this actually happened before my eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was one of those things, like he was the best pick to become the biggest star from like 1992 on. You could feel it kind of coming, you know what I mean? He was like the number one. He was like Peyton Manning and drafted by the Colts where you're like, odds are this guy's going to be the number.

[Mina Kimes]

A rare thing too, a TV star becoming a film star. Doesn't happen. And we all watched Fresh Prince, all of us. So like I felt like I knew

[Bill Simmons]

he clearly was going to leave Fresh Prince and make movies for a couple years there and then did that. But Bad Boys was the moment where like, oh, we're doing this now.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And then Independence Day and then he's out of here. By the time this comes, he's in a run of movies that like he's willing his way, like legitimately. Like this movie without Will Smith is bad. And to me that is the true measure of like a real movie star and quarterbacks. But true.

[Bill Simmons]

The 133 season, when you have like a garbage offensive line and one receiver. Like Brady had like five of these.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Like, who's the Mac Jones to Will Smith? Brock Purdy? I don't Know any other actor coming in in this particular movie and playing this role downgrades the movie from an A minus to a C plus.

[Bill Simmons]

Who is.

[Van Lathan]

I would say that Brady. We should say that Brady had the greatest NFL mind in the history. So it wasn't like, you know, I don't want to. Brady didn't have. Brady never. Brady never had, like, Brady never. Brady never took iRobot to the championship.

[Bill Simmons]

So Brady almost did an 06 pass.

[Van Lathan]

He never took iRobot to the Championship.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the 06 pass.

[Van Lathan]

Fucking Bill Belichick. What are you talking about? They have Willie McGinnis and all of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, no, the 06 Pats had nobody left. And we almost won the super bowl just because of Brady.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, is Kevin James Elliman here being elevated by Will Smith?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Kevin James. Kevin James. Incredibly likable.

[Mina Kimes]

I love him so much. That was my biggest takeaway. Rewatching this for, like, the fifth time. I was like, kevin James is delightful in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's always like this in every movie. It's just I don't choose to see a lot of the movies. I haven't watched Paul Blart. I don't watch Paul Blart.

[Van Lathan]

I got a hot taste here.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it not pronounce you to do this now?

[Van Lathan]

We can if you want or you want to.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, no. Let's do it now. Sit down.

[Van Lathan]

So I invented a category. Oh. And the category is the Tom Arnold category for did the second guy steal the movie?

[Mina Kimes]

Ooh.

[Van Lathan]

And this is named after Tom Arnold's

[Bill Simmons]

character in True Lies.

[Van Lathan]

In True Lies, who doesn't steal the movie, but almost steals the movie from a piece of.

[Bill Simmons]

He feels like he's winning every scene.

[Van Lathan]

He wins every scene in this movie. I could make a determination that when Kevin and Will are on the screen together, it's this great thing that's happening. But he kind of stealing scenes from Will Smith in this movie.

[Mina Kimes]

This dovetails with my most rewatchable scene because I think that take has a lot of heat. And I'm. It's the scene, the dance scene, which I don't wanna jump ahead, but like the scene where Will Smith teaches him how to dance.

[Bill Simmons]

Will be the straight man.

[Mina Kimes]

Will is being the straight man to the point where you can see Will Smith trying not to laugh. He's, like, holding his hand up his mouth multiple times as Kevin James does. Warming the fire. Warming the fire. Making the pizza. Making the pizza. Q tip. Q tip. And watching Will Smith react to a guy doing comedic dance better than Will Smith is incredible. Like, that never happens.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig has different Kevin Smith relationship or Kevin James relationship because grown ups and grown ups too.

[Craig]

To be honest, that's not true. My. I've seen every single episode of King of Queens.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you go way, way back.

[Craig]

I love Kevin James. Yes. Multiple times.

[Bill Simmons]

That show was on for nine years.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

It was out from 1998 to 2007.

[Craig]

That was like a real. Like, I come home from school, my family's running Everybody Loves Raymond and King of Queens on TBS on repeat. I've seen every episode. Love Kevin James.

[Van Lathan]

He's funny.

[Bill Simmons]

He's really good.

[Van Lathan]

When I watched this movie back, I read a bunch of reviews and everybody's like, this movie's not that funny. Every time he's on screen, I think he's hilarious.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm glad you brought up Tom Arnold. Cause he's like the rich man's Tom Arnold. Yeah, yeah. He's like the way better version of it, basically.

[Mina Kimes]

He is so good that I actually found it almost believable that Amber Valletta would go for him.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what the other thing with this movie, all four people are really good and likable. And the Amber Valletta thing, I don't really understand. Like, she was a model before she came an actress. This is easily the most successful thing she was in. She was in some Revenge. Yeah. She was in some TV show. Yeah. And the other TV show was. It was like Blood and Oil or something.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, really?

[Bill Simmons]

She had a lot of at bats. This is the biggest one. I think she had some. She had some drug, alcohol stuff when she was a model that she cleaned up by the time she was in this. And then Eva Mendes was another one who ended up having a bunch of problems like two, three years after this movie and.

[Van Lathan]

Bunch of problems. What you mean? I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, she's talked about it. She had like a lot of like.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, a lot of alcohol stuff watching this movie. I texted you at EV Mendes. I'm trying to think of like an athlete who had to retire early for reasons. And you go back and you watch a performance from them. That's what it's like in their prime.

[Bill Simmons]

Derrick Rose or somebody or somebody that got it just should have been like

[Mina Kimes]

10 more years of her generational.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a lot of take. I have a whole category for her later. She's great in this and I think she has real chemistry with Will Smith too.

[Mina Kimes]

She's really likable in it. It's not. I think she's someone who gets A lot talked about mostly in the context of her looks in her career. And I get it. Watch this movie. She's throwing a hundred. But she's a legitimately likable co star to Will Smith. I think her character is really fun. Well.

[Bill Simmons]

And fits the rom com thing where you can believe she's into her job.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's. Even though she's a smokeshow, there's still something that's believable about her not being with anyone. Like she's a little bit of a mess, but in not the traditional rom com ways. We've kind of. By this time in 2005, we've done every version of these. And I would actually say this is like the end of the. This whatever era of rom coms we had because now we're moving in like the Apatow era and like those kind of advanced ones like. Like we are. We are the Millers. Like movies like. Like just like these different Five Year Engagement. These more elaborate versions. This is like the more simple.

[Van Lathan]

Eh.

[Bill Simmons]

This person.

[Van Lathan]

Everybody has a lesson to learn.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. Oh my God. Oh, they finally figured out he's this. And then. Oh, we'll get. But. And then we had like what? Valentine's Day. All those ones that happened.

[Van Lathan]

That's what, 09. That's what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

New Year's Day, Valentine's Day.

[Van Lathan]

The top line one with the big stars ended up becoming a movie with like 50 people in it.

[Bill Simmons]

He's just not into you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like they figured out there was a couple outliers, like the proposals. Like an old school rom com that was like 2009. But yeah, I went through all the box office mojos to see if any rom com was like a major hit after 05. And really not like this. This was the 10th biggest movie of 2005.

[Mina Kimes]

That's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Which we just didn't see again. I mean, Sex and the City, I guess if you count that a rom com.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think that's a rom com. I don't like that.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think so either film. Sex in the City, but that did more money than this.

[Mina Kimes]

So bad. The guy who made this, Andy Tennant has made. I think I've seen. Because I've seen every rom com. Even like the ones nobody sees. Like the Jennifer Lopez one where she plays a maid. I've seen them all. He made the Wedding Planner, but he made Sweet Home Alabama, which is one of the goat rom coms, obviously. But also he made both Fool's Rush in and Fool's Gold. Both of which I've seen. Not great. Not great.

[Van Lathan]

I disagree about Fool's Rush in. Fools Rush In. Hey, hold on, wait a second.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm in on that movie.

[Van Lathan]

I disagree about Fools Rush In. By the way, that's my guy, Matthew Perry. If we talk about Rest in peace. If we're talking about people who like athletes who you bought stock in and you thought didn't fill out there or meet there, whatever. I don't know why I can't talk. I legitimately, after seeing Fools Rush in thought that he was going to be Tom Hanks.

[Mina Kimes]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

Man, that movie.

[Craig]

He is.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of my best hottest tanks.

[Mina Kimes]

I thought you were gonna say that about Salmaye.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember we did hottest take. I did a whole Matthew Perry thing that he should have been Hanks. He should have been the biggest star we had.

[Van Lathan]

He is funny in that movie. There's one scene where he gets in his car and he jumps out of the car cause the leather burned him. And he goes, it's January, it's like 90 degrees in Vegas. He's just hysterical in that movie. I love that movie. She's beautiful. I love that movie. I love the whole nine yards.

[Mina Kimes]

He just doesn't have the sex. You know, to really be a rom com carry them and this is something Will Smith has. You have to have sex appeal in addition to being funny and likable and.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So who is your rom com lead? Who's your all time?

[Van Lathan]

Tom Hanks is sexy.

[Mina Kimes]

No, no, he is not sexy but he has sex appeal.

[Van Lathan]

Oh.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean women.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife really liked Matthew Perry.

[Mina Kimes]

Sleeplessness.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina just wasn't in on him, I guess. I don't want to ask who's your number one though. Ok. Is it a Marsden type of

[Mina Kimes]

thing or is Marsden like 27 dresses? It's very good. Oh man.

[Bill Simmons]

I've sadly seen every single one of these. Every single round one between my wife and my daughter and then how much they were watching them. That's how I got Will.

[Mina Kimes]

Honestly, if he had done more of them. Obviously Hanks is kind of the famous goat of having done some of the biggest ones of all time. Matthew McConaughey is pretty good in them.

[Bill Simmons]

McConaughey's good. He's really good in 10 the. What's the movie?

[Mina Kimes]

How do lose 10 days.

[Bill Simmons]

How to lose this guy in 10 days. Yet another movie that uses the Knicks. The Knicks.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't wait to get to that. Did some research on that one. What's your favorite Rom com ever. Just out of curiosity.

[Van Lathan]

Man, Boomerang is way up there. This is actually pretty high on the list. I love Fools Rush In. Like, that's so odd. I love that movie. Trying to think, but like When Harry Met Sally. I always think of the rom com. Not as much about the desirability of the characters, but the believability of the ROM and the calm.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Which is why some of the rom.

[Bill Simmons]

There has to be some calm.

[Van Lathan]

There has to be some calm.

[Bill Simmons]

Like there's a couple of like legit funny moments.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a high. You've got Male guy. I know a lot of people.

[Mina Kimes]

You've got male's grade.

[Van Lathan]

I know a lot of people don't dig that one as much. But at the end of the movie, if you know they're gonna get together, the measure of the film is how badly do you want it. Like you at the end of youf've Got Male. I am so relieved.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. When they see you and they're so

[Van Lathan]

adorable that they got together.

[Mina Kimes]

Hugh Grant also. I forgot.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, of course. That's the man.

[Mina Kimes]

You know, for a while, Sandra Bullock was the female goat of the rom coms.

[Bill Simmons]

She was Nolan Ryan. She was like in her 40s, still striking out 300. Who did I love

[Mina Kimes]

while you were sleeping? Do you guys remember that one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Classic movie. So mine are doing this top of my head about last night. When Harry Met Sally. My Best Friend's Wedding.

[Van Lathan]

Pretty Woman.

[Mina Kimes]

My Best Friend.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Pretty Woman. I guess that counts as a rom com.

[Mina Kimes]

It's 100% a rom com.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. See, I always think the most successful ones were the most successful for a reason. They figured out the best that had massive stars in it.

[Van Lathan]

If it's a three way female situation is Julia, Meg and Sandra Bullock. I feel like Sandra Bullock has a claim to the throne.

[Bill Simmons]

The sleeper one for us, which we'll never do on rewatchables because my wife's the only one that likes it. Is a lot like love with Ashton Kutcher and Amanda.

[Van Lathan]

Pete never saw it.

[Bill Simmons]

I might have seen that just through my wife. And then my wife and daughter. It's been on my house like 30 times.

[Mina Kimes]

Ashton Kutcher did no Strings Attached. Or is that Justin Timberlake?

[Bill Simmons]

That's Justin Timberlake.

[Mina Kimes]

Two movies that are exactly the same.

[Bill Simmons]

Friends with baddest ones.

[Mina Kimes]

Friends with benefits.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but this is when rom coms went sideways. When we started doing the Friends with Benefits. No Strings Attached. Like they were ideas that had already happened. They're basically doing the 2.0 versions, I

[Mina Kimes]

think for rom com, truly great. And I actually think this movie, even though it's not the best written movie and there's some issues, there has to be a few things that actually surprise you. If it's totally paint by the numbers, even with good stars, it's boring. And there's a few little small decisions in this movie that take you by surprise and make it not entirely predictable.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I agree with that. What's your favorite ROM com? What's in the Craig and Liz house,

[Craig]

When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, probably because I'm not counting things like forgetting Sarah Marshall. That's like a comedy more than.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's the Apatow ones. I don't think count. I think that's like a genre. Yeah. And then Comram. I like that it's a Comram. You need the ROM first.

[Craig]

Yeah. And there hasn't really been. I mean, I'm curious what you think if there's been like. Like set it up. I thought it was really good. That's probably like the last good one.

[Mina Kimes]

One of the best streaming original ROM coms.

[Craig]

And Glen Powell, really good.

[Mina Kimes]

Glenn Powell is so good in it.

[Bill Simmons]

We love that. That was a big Grant Lamb.

[Craig]

But that was probably almost 10 years ago at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the first year of Grantland.

[Van Lathan]

Pal should legitimately just for three or four years, just be a ROM com guy.

[Bill Simmons]

He should at least make them every like three and a half years. Yeah. It should almost be like the World cup where she just every four years, like the World Cup. He should just come out with another

[Craig]

high concept ROM com.

[Mina Kimes]

High concept ROM com.

[Craig]

Palm Springs.

[Mina Kimes]

Palm Springs is good though.

[Craig]

That's true.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, did Groundhog Day count as a ROM com? Because it's one of my favorite movies of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

It's calm.

[Mina Kimes]

I was so quick witted. Well, that's one of my favorite movies of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's the other thing that happened with rom coms. The streamers. Figured out how to basically professionalize them and crank them out and do every sort of idea constantly.

[Craig]

Yeah. Got like private equity. They're like, we'll just make a million of these and it'll be bad.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Zoe Deutch is in like. At least I know she's in a

[Mina Kimes]

new one I saw on Netflix.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, don't think it wasn't watched in my house. I've in the last week.

[Mina Kimes]

The guy on that is pretty good. I saw him in some.

[Craig]

What's it called? Voicemail.

[Mina Kimes]

Letters from Is voicemails from Isabel.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not going to believe what happens, man. She. Her sister dies and she leaves voicemails to her dead sister.

[Van Lathan]

Oh shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Onto a phone that this guy has who's listening to the voicemails and decides he's going to. He falls in love with her and tries to hunt her down. And guess what? She finds out near the end of the movie that they have the phone and then they have to work it out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

One of my favorite movies of all time actually. If I did a letterboxd top four, this would be in it. I think is a rom com and no one in this room is gonna agree with me. I don't care. Edge of Tomorrow.

[Van Lathan]

Ah, come on.

[Mina Kimes]

It's the rom com.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

Think about it. It's actually. How funny is so romantic. It's so funny. Edge of Tomorrow with Top Cruise.

[Van Lathan]

You're prop Clippy. There's no way.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's a scicom.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a lot of genres.

[Van Lathan]

It dies every day. The movie has a body count. It's like I don't know what's funny.

[Mina Kimes]

You know what we're learning every time he dies.

[Bill Simmons]

She does have a dark brownhawk day. Edge of Tomorrow. She likes something. Edge dying right now.

[Mina Kimes]

Edge Tomorrow is a perfect movie and it is a comedy and it is incredibly romantic.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's a perfect movie. I legitimately think it's one of the best movies of that decade.

[Mina Kimes]

Really? We haven't talked about this. Oh, this is why we're without a

[Van Lathan]

doubt like I went to the arc like a couple of different times. I was trying to tell people, yo, this is really good.

[Mina Kimes]

I will watch that movie anytime it's time.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I will say something about the rom com before we move on. I do think that with the whole ROM and the com thing is interesting to think about that. Cause think about what else was happening during this time. Like movies like the Notebook were coming out and they were going so rom. And then movies like the Judd Apatow stuff was coming out and they were going so calm that they were skewing. You gotta have rumors and calm. You have to have a movie that is really funny. But in no way.

[Bill Simmons]

So where's the holiday in this? Right? That's another all timer.

[Mina Kimes]

But that's.

[Bill Simmons]

That's more like. That's like a dram rom com.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. It's not that funny. It's. I like that movie. I think it's really romantic and I think all four leads are very likable. But it's not that funny.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's a rom drum right to that point.

[Van Lathan]

Pretty Woman. Is Pretty Woman funny?

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty. It's a little like Hitch with Will Smith, but on a whole other level because Roberts and Gear are just so great in it doesn't really even matter what's happening.

[Van Lathan]

She's adorable. Because it can be adorable.

[Bill Simmons]

She looks great. He looks great. The concept is, like, perfect.

[Van Lathan]

It's funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she was a prostitute, but only for a couple times.

[Mina Kimes]

How many rom coms are there?

[Bill Simmons]

She's only been doing it for a week.

[Mina Kimes]

It's an important plot point. How many rom coms are really funny? Like. Like laugh.

[Van Lathan]

Like, this one is funny.

[Mina Kimes]

This one's funny.

[Van Lathan]

This one's funny.

[Craig]

I mean, crazy, stupid love.

[Mina Kimes]

Crazy, stupid love.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's hysterical.

[Mina Kimes]

So funny.

[Bill Simmons]

But then it goes in the Apatow side. The comedy becomes more important. But forgetting Sarah Marshall is a rom com. It's just super funny.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it's more of a comedy.

[Bill Simmons]

It's kind of. It's almost not fair to put it in here.

[Craig]

I don't even think of it as a rom com. Yeah, somebody told me to list rom coms.

[Van Lathan]

Something else about this movie is like, this movie was made at the perfect inflection point for it to be made because around this time, the pickup artist dudes start to come out. We talked about this a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the Tucker Max era. What was that other guy? Who was the guy who the game with? Neil Strauss. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

There was another dude that had like a.

[Bill Simmons]

This was a whole early Internet era.

[Van Lathan]

What was the other guy? He had like a cool name. He wore a cool hat. He was on VH1. What's his name?

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, mystery.

[Van Lathan]

Do you remember him?

[Craig]

I don't. Yeah,

[Van Lathan]

he invented negging. You know negging.

[Bill Simmons]

I know negging.

[Van Lathan]

We talked about negging the last time, by the way.

[Mina Kimes]

While I was driving here, I was thinking about last time, and I just like to say I think it's pretty brave of me to come back and talk about another how to pick up woman thing after getting universally dunked on for falling for Ryan Gosling's game during

[Van Lathan]

our crazy Megan worked on her.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So it wasn't a dunked on like Tim Reed getting hit on.

[Mina Kimes]

I got a lot of deserving people

[Bill Simmons]

are on your side, though, making fun of you.

[Mina Kimes]

Who are they? And I actually entered my brain when I was thinking about how I was going to defend Will Smith's sexual politics in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

He's done that. Hitch doesn't Nag.

[Craig]

Doesn't nag.

[Bill Simmons]

Hitch doesn't nag.

[Mina Kimes]

Which age the best. The politics of Hitch's picking up women. He likes women.

[Van Lathan]

Hitch is a mythical character. Like, he's a mythical character. He is the rare Coxman who also loves and respects women.

[Mina Kimes]

Bingo.

[Van Lathan]

And I've only.

[Bill Simmons]

But also realizes everything he was doing was bad and he had the wrong formula. It's the lesson of the whole movie.

[Mina Kimes]

But it's not bad.

[Bill Simmons]

He's being bad. Unsuccessful.

[Mina Kimes]

Unsuccessful. Right. He's not like, wow, we should treat women better.

[Bill Simmons]

He's just like, wow, I had that wrong.

[Mina Kimes]

Treat women well. He wants them to, like, actually like them. It's a very important thing that he doesn't work with Fance once in. Or whatever.

[Craig]

He only works with good guys who are down on their luck. He's like the Robin Hood of dating in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's interesting hearing the director talk about the making of the movie, which sounded miserable, but he was basically saying, I really wanted to avoid all the cheap jokes. And, like, I. I felt like that we had a vision for this, and the more we went kind of the cheap joke route, the movie was going to fall apart. He said, this is Andy Tennant, the director. He said, when we wrapped that movie, I called my wife and said, I've just ruined my career and I've ruined Will Smith's career. Too damn dramatic. He said, we had our difficulties. I didn't want cheap jokes, but he didn't trust me. The movie I wanted to make and the movie Will wanted to make, neither one of those movies is as good as the movie we made together was a battle. And then he said, will Smith, three days before production, tried to delay it because he wasn't happy. And he basically tried to stop production. And Jada got involved and was like, you gotta. You made a commitment, did that whole thing. And then he said, when we wrapped, Will walked off the set, didn't get to say goodbye to me, didn't say anything. He just left. I think he felt the same way I did. We thought, this movie is a disaster. We wrapped it was depressing. And then they did a test screen and everybody was like, I love this. And then Will Smith's like, boom. And became Will Smith.

[Van Lathan]

It would be hard if you're telling people the reason to go see the movie. It was just like, go watch Will Smith be smooth.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I remember there was this girl that I knew in college. I was right after college at this time, and she was like, I found out the type of guy that I Want. And she says, my type is the Alexander Hitchens type.

[Craig]

Stop.

[Van Lathan]

I swear on my dad. Like, she said, alex, that's the type of guy that. And I think for a lot of people.

[Bill Simmons]

Was it Janet Jameson?

[Van Lathan]

It was. Shut up. She's had a couple Alexander Hitchens and a couple Shawn Michaels. But for that, you could watch this movie as a woman and go, hey, I'm not gonna speak for women. Hey, I want that type of guy. You could watch this guy as a guy and go, that's the best version of that type of dude that you

[Mina Kimes]

boost your confidence, great with women.

[Van Lathan]

It's not like he's not going to take these women home and have sex with them, but he's gonna respect them.

[Bill Simmons]

The reality is these movies are unassailable because you can see them on a date, you can see them when you're married, and you can see them when you're in high school and you wanna take either a friend or a date. Like, you're hitting every age group and there's something for everybody. And they're gonna win forever. And that's why Netflix makes just basically this. And horror movies are all they pump out. Amazon's doing like, YA versions of this.

[Van Lathan]

But this is like, I like the old guard.

[Bill Simmons]

They've done the advanced metrics on all this stuff and they're like, guess what? People watch rom coms.

[Mina Kimes]

I know, but there' because we've done

[Bill Simmons]

every idea and as we said earlier, so much of this depends on do I like the people in this movie and the more famous and better the people are. And think about it. Every major star has made at least two of these, Right? Even Tom Cruise has made a couple.

[Van Lathan]

One guy who, Denzel.

[Bill Simmons]

He doesn't count, though.

[Van Lathan]

Won't do it.

[Mina Kimes]

He's never been in a romantic comedy. He's done a lot of romantic movies.

[Van Lathan]

Has he been movies?

[Bill Simmons]

He's been movies. But rom com is at a time, right?

[Craig]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, I've got to solve a murder and navigate this.

[Van Lathan]

Doesn't do it. Doesn't do it. Doesn't intensity.

[Bill Simmons]

What would a Denzel rom com even be?

[Mina Kimes]

I think he could do a great one as he ends, like, now that he's in his golden years, like an old person rom com.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a widower. A widower rom com.

[Mina Kimes]

There need to be more rom coms starring older people. Like, enough said. Gandolfini. It's a great one.

[Van Lathan]

I gotta be real with you.

[Bill Simmons]

People don't go. You don't get anyone under 40 to go.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe I think that there should be. But you gotta believe. You gotta wanna. Like, in this movie, isn't there a part of you that's like, hey, these two people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Are they gonna bone?

[Van Lathan]

They're gonna have sex.

[Mina Kimes]

We talked about this when we did Nancy Meyers, Nancy Myers, who we, by the way, haven't talked about at all. In. As we're listing our favorite rom coms. A lot of those.

[Bill Simmons]

She's almost like her own genre.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

And she shows them having sex.

[Van Lathan]

When you say old, like, what are we talking about here?

[Bill Simmons]

60? Older.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, 60 ain't nothing now. 60, like Brad Pitt's 60 too. You still trying to. True. Yeah, that's nothing now. But when we start getting to like, you know, 75s to 80s and stuff like that, it's kind of like, you know, chill out.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what. I was on an airplane some point like three months ago, and the wi fi was out, but the TV worked and I'm just going through the DirecTV and grumpy old Men was on. Yeah, the movie was fucking awesome. It was so good.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Grumpy Old Men.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I had seen it since. But that was like two old people and Margaret moves in.

[Mina Kimes]

They get.

[Bill Simmons]

They're both like trying to say, you know what?

[Van Lathan]

That is a goo.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie did so well. They made a sequel so grumpier to the case of like, why isn't this. Why isn't this generation represented? Like, it does succeed. But think about it. You had Walter Matthau, Jack Lemmon and Ann Margaret, like three.

[Van Lathan]

She was super famous, super beautiful in that.

[Bill Simmons]

This was. This would be the move for Cruise if he ever gives up, like, trying to pretend it's Top Gun, like, to actually do like an older, like, rom com where he's a widower or something.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, I can't believe we never bring up Jerry Maguire, by the way, when we're doing the best romantic comedies of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, that's a good one.

[Mina Kimes]

Which is. There's a. It's in Hitch there. She watches it at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

$60 million movie made 371.5. Surpassed 50 First Dates as the biggest rom com ever. Held the record for three years. Roger Ebert, two and a half stars, Right? We're in a real slump.

[Mina Kimes]

Garage hater.

[Bill Simmons]

I might have to go through his books and find a four star movie just to, like resurrect.

[Craig]

What did he say?

[Bill Simmons]

Two and a half stars. There's a purpose for a movie like Hitch. And that purpose is to supply a pleasant and undemanding romantic comedy that you can rent next Valentine's Day. It's not that I dislike it, it's just that it doesn't seem entirely necessary. The premise is intriguing. The third act goes on autopilot. It's a borderline fuck you, Raj. That's borderline. I'm not mad at him, but it's. I thought about it.

[Van Lathan]

Have a good time sometimes. Raj.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on, Raj.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's. What's next.

[Mina Kimes]

I think the third act of the movie. I didn't feel like it was lagging that much, personally.

[Bill Simmons]

There's one part that lags, but we'll talk about it. We're going to take one break and then we'll do rewatchable scenes. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The World cup is finally here. And the coolest thing right now, FIFA World cup launch edition on Netflix. A fast and fluid game where your phone is the controller and your TV is the stadium. Play as any of the 48 teams in 16 real world stadiums and it's included in your membership. Yeah. Go to the games tab in your TV and play FIFA World cup launch edition now only on Netflix. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat and gears, Every checkered flag and trophy raised, Every lap, every race, every hard fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of NOS Energy. High performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal. Human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of NOS energy and get after it. Most rewatchable scene, the opening. Will Smith running through the hitch tips.

[Mina Kimes]

Basic principles.

[Bill Simmons]

Mina, let's go through these quick.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

No woman wakes up saying, God, I hope I don't get swept off my feet today.

[Mina Kimes]

It's fine, it's fine. Honestly, when I rewatched this this time, I was like, like waiting for it and everything's fine, but keep going.

[Bill Simmons]

No matter what, no matter when, no matter how, no matter who. Any man can sweep a woman off their feet. You just need the right broom.

[Mina Kimes]

Sure,

[Bill Simmons]

90% of what you're saying ain't coming out of your mouth. You said it's basically 30% tone and 60% body language. I don't know if I believe that

[Mina Kimes]

one attitude towards acting.

[Bill Simmons]

A woman's best friend needs to sign off on all major relationship decisions. It's not wrong.

[Van Lathan]

No, that's pretty much true, bro.

[Mina Kimes]

It's also a fundamental tenet of rom coms. Like the best friend plays a role

[Bill Simmons]

in the movie I feel like that's true. My beloved daughter Zoe, her friend, she trusts the most, the other Zoe. I don't feel like she would ever seriously date somebody that the other Zoe was like, I don't like that guy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that she's just gonna trust the friendship.

[Van Lathan]

Even if. Even if they're. Blah. I mean, that's bad enough, but if they're out on the person, it's just gonna be a sense of tension.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't do it.

[Van Lathan]

You can't do it.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Guys are different. Guys will just be like. You'll just watch a friend get married. It's like they go off to a war and they don't come back.

[Van Lathan]

I don't have an opinion. Look, I don't have an opinion on y'.

[Bill Simmons]

All.

[Van Lathan]

You like it? I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Van Lathan]

I don't. I don't. In my friend groups, we have never been on that. I don't like her. Hey, man, if you like it, I love it. I'm outta your business.

[Mina Kimes]

You've never had a friend who's with someone that y' all hate so much that somebody says something.

[Van Lathan]

So I've had friends before that. How can I say this? I've had friends before that were with women that other people that we knew had known.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a different conversation.

[Van Lathan]

They knew her really well, and a lot of people knew her. That's all I'm gonna say. And some people. Sometimes people would do that, and they would be like, hey, bring that up. And then even then, I would be like, yo, bro, get out of his business. If he likes her, that's his thing. But for me, if you like it, I love it. I'm staying out of your whole situation.

[Mina Kimes]

If you like it, I love it. But I don't wanna hang out anymore.

[Van Lathan]

I will hang out. If I love you, I'll put up with your girl when she get a little too drunk.

[Mina Kimes]

And the whole opposite, we're not talking about. We're saying if you're with someone whose significant other is deeply annoying or maybe offensive, look, we'll start pulling back. This kind of came up during Crazy Stupid Love. You'll kind of pull back if you don't want to hang out as couples anymore.

[Van Lathan]

I've never been. There's not, like, a lot of people that I. That my homeboys have, like, girls and stuff like that, or ladies that I like take a particular liking to them. It's like, I don't do that. Like, I don't. I like your girl. It starts to get kind of weird. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know. I'm just, like, from a place where

[Bill Simmons]

it's like, what are you talking.

[Mina Kimes]

No, no, I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not gonna judge who you fell in love with.

[Van Lathan]

I don't like. I don't get involved in that type of deal. That's like.

[Mina Kimes]

Have you ever benefited, though, from the thing where you're dating someone and her friends are so happy that she's with you and not the previous guy?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because I think that ladies do that.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a powerful female emotion when, like, your friend only dates crappy guys and then suddenly they meet someone everyone likes, and then we all go in way too hard.

[Bill Simmons]

That was Drake.

[Mina Kimes]

Dan lock us in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah,

[Bill Simmons]

we went.

[Van Lathan]

My role as men, y' all don't stay out of each other's business.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two things to say about this. One, I can't talk about this. Personal experiences. Literally can't. But I'm. I'm also somebody that. My wife is probably considered my single best asset by other people, which is kind of insulting to me. But fine. I've had things, you know, I'm obviously older. There's been some relationships I've. I've watched that maybe I kind of wish didn't unfold the way they did. The other thing is, I'm saying from far, like, oh, I hope they don't. They did.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Second, the thing that you can't explain properly to people in their 20s as all their friends, as the merry go round stops and everyone starts getting married. Craig's in this right now. You're gonna have a couple friends that marry somebody, and you're gonna think, well, you know, it's not great, but it will be fine. You're not gonna be fine.

[Mina Kimes]

You'll never do everything again. Yes. That's what I'm saying. You're not gonna hang out.

[Bill Simmons]

That's it.

[Mina Kimes]

This is.

[Bill Simmons]

The partner will always win and the friends will always lose. And that's how it goes.

[Van Lathan]

And this is my. This is the.

[Bill Simmons]

This is my advice from Confucius Bill. We had William X last week and Confucius Bill this week.

[Van Lathan]

And I'll put a button on it. That's the reason why. It's a losing thing. It's a losing thing. You cannot compete with matters of the heart. So you get mad at your homeboy, you get mad at your homeboy's girl, and you say, whatever. They're going to get back together. You're going to be the one.

[Bill Simmons]

You can't break Up. You can't say anything. It's like, thank God you broke up. She was awful.

[Van Lathan]

They're gonna be back together six months,

[Bill Simmons]

and she is gonna be Michael Corleone, Everybody.

[Mina Kimes]

In my 20s, I had a really close friend who dated a girl who was not only very unpleasant, unlikable, she was a pathological liar. And that was too far to the point where I vividly remember myself and friend groups from various stages of his life. Like his best friend from college, his best friend from work. We had like a meeting of the five families together. We were like, we gotta stage an intervention. And we did. And they broke. It actually worked. They broke up.

[Van Lathan]

This is horrible. I have like, this is a horrible. I would argue that you guys did. I think that is sinister.

[Mina Kimes]

I never knew you got a dumper. We were just like, here's the information. Do.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God, this is so disgusting. Nina, this sounds like crazy. This sounds like another romcom.

[Mina Kimes]

I was gonna say it sounds like another.

[Van Lathan]

It is another rom com.

[Bill Simmons]

I wish I could tell. I wish I could tell my story.

[Van Lathan]

I think I know it. Do I know it?

[Bill Simmons]

No. Okay. Yeah. The intervention can go one of two ways. There's another way. It could go where they end up

[Van Lathan]

being staying together and then it's all destroyed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Subtext.

[Bill Simmons]

The bar scene is our next rewatchable scene with the flashback. But we have guys playing pool.

[Van Lathan]

Two dudes.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this might have been the last guys playing pool rom com scene. We had a nice little 15 year run of this. Just like, let's go play some. Some pool and talk about relationships. Let's do this. They have a scene like that in boomerang, but it's 15 straight years of Craig. Have you ever played pool with somebody and just talked about the ladies?

[Craig]

No, I have not.

[Bill Simmons]

Where do you guys stand? Hold on, nine ball.

[Craig]

Well, the implication is that he's dating Will Smith's sister.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. Michael Rappaport is his brother in law.

[Craig]

Kind of weird that that just never comes back.

[Van Lathan]

Interracial relationship was good enough for the movie. They left that one.

[Craig]

But that's the most 2005 thing about the movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Seeing Rapaport, I have that underway, which

[Bill Simmons]

is my only one scene. They don't bring him back. Yeah, it's like a jump scare.

[Craig]

It's like, whoa, Rabbit board's in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

More on that later. We have Albert quitting his job in the boardroom.

[Van Lathan]

Can I just say real quick, there's no way to talk about that bar scene and not talk about how the $20 girl. Gorgeous. Nigga, that's Paul Patton. Are you out of your. Don't you ever play this.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't you dare think William X does no Paul Patton.

[Van Lathan]

Boy, when I gotta say for the

[Bill Simmons]

audience, the $20 bar girl.

[Van Lathan]

I know, I know. I'm looking at her. I was listening. Gobs, smack.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

But I just. It just shook me back to remember.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know why she wasn't the biggest star of the2010.

[Van Lathan]

Felt in that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Like, God, can I say this movie. Everybody looks so hot. Except for Kevin J. But, you know, but like, he looks

[Van Lathan]

the hottest he's ever looked.

[Mina Kimes]

How does he ever look? Credit to where they shot it. Like William Smith. William Smith. Will Smith looks amazing in it. Eva Mendes looks incredible. Like, just every scene. Everybody, Amber Veletta looks at me. The close ups. Everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Paul Patton. It just never happened.

[Mina Kimes]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Did she marry Alan Thicke?

[Mina Kimes]

No, she married Robin Thicke.

[Bill Simmons]

Robin Thicke. Did she marry Alan Thick? I knew she married a Thicke. She married Robin Thicke.

[Van Lathan]

I think they were already married. They were together since they were like.

[Mina Kimes]

They got divorced because he had all this stuff.

[Van Lathan]

They got divorced after the.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, he.

[Van Lathan]

What was the huge record he had?

[Bill Simmons]

If you did Blurred Lines.

[Van Lathan]

Blurred Lines. The blurred lines with Paula Patton versus

[Bill Simmons]

Meghan Markle in like 2010. Who is going to be an A plus list famous person? She would have been like a 10 to 1 favorite.

[Van Lathan]

Paula Patton was in a couple of things and she's having a great career. But like, legitimately. Legitimately. I thought that was a Brad Pitt, Thelma and Louise moment. Like, I looked at her like, Jesus, she is so gorgeous.

[Bill Simmons]

Albert quits his job in the conference room, but Amber was impressed that he stood up for himself. And then Will Smith's hiding behind the door and he gives. That's a really good scene. That's just a good rom com scene.

[Mina Kimes]

They hit that quite a few times. The physical comedy of Will Smith giving him advice. And Kevin James fumbling as he's trying to woo a woman. That's the best one out of all of them moments in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Good, classic rom com. Where it's like, oh, they might get caught. Oh, she's gonna see. He's behind the door, but hands on the pen.

[Mina Kimes]

It's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Hitch meets Eva Mendez right as she's meeting Chip. They call me Chip. I couldn't help but notice you look a lot like my next girlfriend.

[Van Lathan]

Chip. Chip. Chip. Kind of the man.

[Craig]

Chip fucking brings it.

[Van Lathan]

He's my only dad. Waiter Chip Kind of the man. Chip, are you always so closed off? Chip is in intense.

[Bill Simmons]

Chip just owned it. I loved him. All right, and then we have jet skiing on the Hudson River.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Mina Kimes]

Apex Mountain jet skis.

[Craig]

Wait, Mina, how do you feel about the move in the scene with Chip when Hitch pretends to be her partner to get her out of the Awkward.

[Bill Simmons]

One of my favorite rom com movies.

[Craig]

Is that one of, like, the coolest moves to you or is that actually a little bit lame?

[Mina Kimes]

Well, Craig, I have it under something I just enjoy. There it is. And I realize I'm bringing it a little baggage when I'm talking about falling for a guy's moves. But I just enjoy every scene where Will Smith gets to be the smoothest guy alive. It is a classic rom com. Is this guy bothering you, honey? Move.

[Craig]

It's great.

[Mina Kimes]

I also love skimmie head when he gives her the walkie. The scene where he gives her the walkie talkie. Because most of the movie, Hitch is actually fumbling with her. And that's kind of the idea.

[Bill Simmons]

I got the walkie talkies in here.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, I love that when she doesn't say over, and he says, you need to say over.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. What's funny? Cause when I saw that scene, I was like, I thought about interesting writing in that scene. Cause, like, that scene makes me think about the Matrix. Like when Neo got the walkie.

[Mina Kimes]

Could have been Will Smith.

[Van Lathan]

Could have been Will Smith. That movie makes me think about the Matrix when Neo got the walkie talkies. Cause you're thinking to yourself, when Neo gets the walkie talkies, you're thinking, how much does Morpheus know about this world that he can give him a walkie talkie and then walk him through that or the. And that makes me think about the chance that Hitch took with.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. The Sunday morning. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Van Lathan]

He is basically like the Matrix of love. He knows.

[Bill Simmons]

He figures she'll say no on Friday and Saturday.

[Van Lathan]

He figures that he's not gonna be weird at all. He also gives her a walkie talkie because he knows that the rest of the audience, the rest of the office is gonna hear and they're gonna be reacting to it.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean the most unrealistic newspaper office in movie we've ever seen?

[Van Lathan]

So much to say about that.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll get to the tabloid. Yeah. Ellis island is kind of a cool scene for a variety of reasons. But the butcher reveal is really funny. It's like a genuinely funny movie moment.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, so this is what I was saying earlier about how the.

[Craig]

Truly.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he was just a butcher.

[Mina Kimes]

Rom coms have to have moments to surprise you. This is the first time this movie we were like, whoa, I didn't see that coming. You think he's so smooth. Everything's going well. Well, he obviously knocks her off the Jet Ski when that reveal happens. It's so funny because it's so surprising and out of left field that he didn't plan ahead and he totally missed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good scene. Dance montage you mentioned leading into them at the club.

[Van Lathan]

Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good. Kevin James in this part. Food allergies scene, which I think became. I think they used that in the trailer.

[Craig]

And the Jet Ski moment.

[Van Lathan]

I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Albert takes her to a Knicks game and goes for the big kiss. I have very few passions in life for rom coms and lifetime movies, but youth sports scenes with bad soccer games and anyone going to an NBA game, I'm locked in. All I care about is who's playing. Trying to figure out what season it is.

[Mina Kimes]

Marbury's in it, right?

[Bill Simmons]

This is March 2004. It was Marbury's first game against the Grizzlies at home. I looked at the boxer. I have more on this later, but I love when they do that. Entourage was really good at this.

[Van Lathan]

Really good.

[Bill Simmons]

They would have those guys sitting courtside basically once a season, I think in Ahri's season.

[Craig]

Oh, yeah, probably.

[Bill Simmons]

And the real Ari. But. But yeah, they would. I just. I. I love when people bring the NBA into it.

[Mina Kimes]

The Knicks have been this in. How to lose a guy in 10 days. Train wreck, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Train wrecks. A good one.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Big.

[Mina Kimes]

He was like the doctor for the Knicks.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a couple more I should have. I should have. Did I should ask Claude or one of this AI thing? Give me all the rom coms with feature NBA scenes. Actual action. The Date from Hell, food fight when Eva Mendes comes to his apartment all pissed off.

[Van Lathan]

See what happened now?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. You wouldn't have him throwing stuff at him.

[Van Lathan]

See what happened now? The kids would be like, who is he to throw at her? To throw lettuce at her and abuse him. Yeah. Wouldn't happen now. No.

[Craig]

What lettuce?

[Van Lathan]

Whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Speed date scene.

[Van Lathan]

So you can't assault anybody with it.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the speed date scene.

[Van Lathan]

I do like the speed date scene.

[Bill Simmons]

I like speed date scenes in general,

[Van Lathan]

but this one is really good.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. I actually looked this up because I was going to have the most 2005 speed dating at Budokan, and then I took it and I was like, Let me look this up. And many articles came up about speed dating having a resurgence post pandemic.

[Van Lathan]

So this one, this one is making. This one is making a commentary about speed dating though, because Will Smith and Eva Mendez look like two hot aliens dropped into this speed dating thing full of losers. Like, which culminates with the woman standing up and going, I haven't been laid in about a year.

[Bill Simmons]

So like, which is funny.

[Van Lathan]

Which is very funny.

[Mina Kimes]

It's kind of the weird unspoken thing about Eva Mendez in general. Right? Which is like, she's way too hot to just be a normal reporter. And for her to like not be moving in the world the way. I don't know, it just doesn't. She's not too hot for the movie, but it's a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

That's what Chip said.

[Bill Simmons]

Hitch begs for forgiveness on Allegra's boat. And then the wedding scene end credits. Gotta love a good end credits.

[Van Lathan]

Love when they get. Just get into it, man. We know this is not real. They get married. Let's have some fun.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife said actually this is my favorite scene in the movie.

[Mina Kimes]

The dancing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she just really likes good wedding.

[Van Lathan]

Love won.

[Mina Kimes]

Aiden, you have Will Smith, like, you better have a comedic dance scene at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

And Will Smith and Ava Mendes dancing was pretty high level compared to how that could go.

[Van Lathan]

And I just love that this movie actually was like, nah, Albert didn't just get the girl. Like he got the girl. Like they got married.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think that started the Jennifer Hudson show where the guests have to go down and dance? Would you do that? Would you dance?

[Mina Kimes]

Literally my worst nightmare. I think about it all the time.

[Bill Simmons]

I wouldn't do it.

[Van Lathan]

You wouldn't do the spirit tunnel?

[Mina Kimes]

No, I would come up with a bit.

[Bill Simmons]

I definitely wouldn't do that. I don't even dance at weddings.

[Van Lathan]

I just need a couple of more notches to be invited on the show. I cannot wait to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I don't think the show exists anymore.

[Craig]

It's so high risk. I would prepare more for that than an Oscars speech to not fuck up if you.

[Van Lathan]

I got that coming already.

[Mina Kimes]

You clown yourself. It's over.

[Craig]

It's over.

[Mina Kimes]

But if you are an unexpected success and like, let's say, I don't know, like you're a half Korean, half Asian or half white person, perhaps a woman who no one thinks can dance. And if you were that person, you were to go up there and shock the world, that clip would follow you forever.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like throwing like a 90 mile an hour. First pitch at a baseball.

[Mina Kimes]

Obama at the dnc. Like, you would be able to, like, soar.

[Van Lathan]

But see, the reality is, if you're me and you're coming through there.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, you hire us, they gonna.

[Van Lathan]

But with you, all y' all gotta do.

[Mina Kimes]

Bill, you could literally, like, the bar is so low.

[Van Lathan]

You could legitimately. You know what you could do? You know what Will tells Albert to do in this movie to dance.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't do the overlap.

[Mina Kimes]

You live here.

[Bill Simmons]

You live here.

[Mina Kimes]

90 degree angle, Bill.

[Van Lathan]

I'm telling you, if you come through the spirit tunnel, Jennifer, and you like this, people gonna be like, jesus Christ. That Bill's got sold.

[Bill Simmons]

It will never happen.

[Van Lathan]

We love Bill.

[Mina Kimes]

I would hire a dance teacher. I would hire a dance teacher. Do you not hear what I said?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it is. You were it lived forever one way or the other. Because the best one ever was Britney

[Mina Kimes]

Snow, the dude who's the unbelievable.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Hillary Duff, I think. Are you talking about Hillary Duff?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no,

[Mina Kimes]

no, no, no, no, no, no. Who's the absurdly hot guy who's coming in lanterns? What's his name again? He's in Lantern. The guy who's like, too hot for to be talking about, you know, with the light eyes.

[Van Lathan]

Why is he blanking you? Rebel Ridge.

[Mina Kimes]

Aaron Pierre. The clip of him doing that, he went nuts.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Was. The comment section was so feral, they had to shut it down because it

[Bill Simmons]

has, I think, like, good way or a bad way?

[Van Lathan]

My mama was up in there. There was like, they like, you know, you met her. But like, they was. They was going nuts.

[Bill Simmons]

If you.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm just saying if you kill that, it is your shot. Bill, you could do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Brittany Snow. What's our most rewatchable scene?

[Van Lathan]

I'm name something that I think it is the most laugh out loud funny moment in the movie to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So there's a great moment where Will goes to Allegra to plead Albert's case. And they have this cute little thing where he realizes he didn't do anything and you exhale as an audience. And then he grabs her to hold her. And just as he does that, Albert slides into frame and he goes, is this your plan the whole time? Take my girl. And then he attacks Will every time. I've seen that a dozen times. Every time it happens, I laugh my ass off.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Mina Kimes]

I think it's the dance lessons coupled with Hitch giving him advice. Some of it a voiceover while he's on the first date. It's not just the dance stuff is amazing. Contract. You see him dancing on the date when he's. I wrote it down. When he teaches him where to put his hand and he says, watch your hand placement. Too high says, I want to be friends. Too low says, I just want to grab some ass. And he goes, friends, ass, me. And then it cuts to him doing that. I love that scene so much.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the most watchable scene.

[Mina Kimes]

It is so fun.

[Van Lathan]

That's the scene that, like, with that

[Bill Simmons]

said movie, I really love seeing New York City with the jet skis and the Hudson river and all that stuff. I would give that great shot, Gordo. I would also give that Den of Thieves, Benihana. I just like. It's this kind of New York scene I've never seen in a movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, totally.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was also. This movie's for less than four years after 9 11. And it's just like New York's starting to feel like it's coming back.

[Mina Kimes]

Made me want to jet ski.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It was just. It was cool. I like that they did that. All right, what's the most 2005 thing about this movie? I could offer you famous gossip call on this.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Bill Simmons]

Michael Rapford as the buddy to rom com or Stephon Marbury in a Knicks uniform. I think it has to be the winner.

[Mina Kimes]

Mm.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, all of that stuff is varied.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other ones?

[Mina Kimes]

I think so. Okay. As I said, I think Will Smith and what he does, all of it actually has not aged poorly. The way he talks about women, what he's teaching these guys. But the fact that it's all these guys dating women who are physically out of their leagues, I don't think you would see in a movie now. Like, you wouldn't see, like, all the guys he's coaching are like, he's coaching up to like go after women.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

That's just kind of a very early to mid 2000s dynamic. You just don't see that often.

[Bill Simmons]

Rapaport. You gonna call her or what?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Craig]

He's obsessed with that hot woman who walks in the bar, which is weird.

[Van Lathan]

So here's the thing about that scene. Just to let you know. So we learn later. We learn later that Rappaport's character is married to Will Smith's sister. Basically.

[Craig]

I don't understand.

[Mina Kimes]

It's not at all clear in the beginning.

[Van Lathan]

It's not clear in the beginning.

[Mina Kimes]

He's like, go get these women.

[Van Lathan]

So. So Will, though, is still.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

With his brother in law being like, hey, man, you want me to go get him? And Bring him over here. Watching his brother in law kind of look at the. It's like super weird.

[Bill Simmons]

They said that that Rapaport didn't fare well in the editing process of this movie because he's the fourth leading build person in the movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that? Or top five. And he's.

[Craig]

Maybe they had other scenes with him that were cut.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they definitely did the Floyd Gandali butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. What do you got, Mina?

[Mina Kimes]

Well, I told you. Is Will Smith being smooth? Because most of the movie he's not that. The old gist of it is he gets Eva Mendes by actually screwing up and kind of bumbling and whatnot. The allergies. Ellis island and that. But the moments where you get to see him be smooth first time he approaches her. The fact that he. And this is similar to Gosling in Crazy Stupid. Love that he lets it go. Lets the fish back into catch and release. The smoothest thing a guy can do is catch and release as attacking.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

I got the Vance Munson character. I just love a pure asshole. The moment that he's sitting down talking to him, you know something's off. Cause he's like, wait a minute, this guy ain't ugly. This guy can get a lady. That whole thing. I just love that character. I love in every movie. Just a straight up terrible person.

[Mina Kimes]

Terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

I gave Vance the chest. Rockwell Brocklander's award for best character name. Vance Munson. What are the ads? That guy was gonna be a good character too.

[Mina Kimes]

I've seen him on other stuff and I like him. He plays. Did you watch Fargo season two? He plays one of the super evil Midwestern mobs. Fargo ones. Season 1 and 3 are amazing. He plays one of the evil mobsters in that. And I think he's in a bunch of law and order stuff. He's just got such incredible resting douchebags.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had this. In what stage? The best. His name's Jeffrey Donovan. Seeing him in a rom com. This is a guy who's been, I think in both Sicario movies.

[Mina Kimes]

He was the glasses guy.

[Bill Simmons]

He was.

[Van Lathan]

That's who he is.

[Bill Simmons]

He's in Shot Caller.

[Craig]

That's.

[Van Lathan]

That's where I know him from.

[Craig]

He is.

[Bill Simmons]

You see him and it's like this

[Van Lathan]

guy's actually Shot Caller. He plays the dude that's like, yes. On the yard.

[Mina Kimes]

He.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

What's the character's name? Zakaria. With the glasses. Graver's. He's like one of his right hand guys. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But you see this movie and there's a darkness to that guy from all the other movies. And he's perfect as Vance Munson, but

[Mina Kimes]

I'm telling you, it's his face. I'm sorry. He's actually, you know, just. Some people just have those faces.

[Bill Simmons]

My Floyd gondola is in a rom com when the character's watching another rom

[Mina Kimes]

com when they cross the cross. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And this one, they did it with

[Mina Kimes]

what was Jerry Maguire.

[Bill Simmons]

Jerry Maguire, Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Ava Michigan, which did come out

[Mina Kimes]

getting choked up mid-90s, late-90s.

[Craig]

Is that kind of a weird I'm sad movie to throw on Jerry Maguire? Well, she.

[Bill Simmons]

It was the.

[Mina Kimes]

Speaking from experience.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it was the pivotal moment, though. It was when he's trying to win her back.

[Van Lathan]

I know him from those things, but that's actually not. No, I want to know him.

[Bill Simmons]

Jeffrey Donovan.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She just did the thing where you.

[Mina Kimes]

Burn notice.

[Bill Simmons]

Burn Notice. Another one.

[Van Lathan]

Burn notice. He's the guy from burn notice.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he's that guy. I think he's Jeffrey Donovan.

[Van Lathan]

I think he's Jeffrey Donovan. But Burn notice. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Burnout spin into many things. What stage the best, the walkie talkie trick you mentioned. I thought that was really funny and would never, ever work now because I just don't. I don't think anyone would bring walkie talkies into anything. And people would probably think it was a little bit creepy.

[Mina Kimes]

No, I felt like this is the coolest guy ever.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy Tennant's quote is a wood stage the best about Will Smith. This was him saying, will Smith wasn't that bad to work with. Even the hard times, he'd always say, wait until the junket. We're going around the world with this. And we did, and it was great. It was the most amazing trip I'd ever been on. And when it was over, my time with Will was over. I've never heard from him since. They just traveled to like 50 countries. Junkets sound amazing. They do.

[Mina Kimes]

I just. When I looked up the Andy Tennant, the first thing I saw was a quote from last year of him saying, will Smith, his production company is making a sequel, and he didn't come out of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there was like some 20th anniversary,

[Mina Kimes]

and he's like, yes, I did. That's Hollywood. I guess.

[Bill Simmons]

We had an andy Tennant at ESPN forever.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

So when I looked at Randy 60, he still had a whole bunch of stuff with him. Yeah, I liked Andy Tennant.

[Mina Kimes]

When I looked at Andy Tenant's IMDb who made this movie in addition to all the romantic comedies. It says E60 and I'm sure they mixed it up with R and D. Tennant.

[Bill Simmons]

Different Andy Tennant.

[Van Lathan]

I never met him.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage is the best? Never lie, steal, cheat or drink. But if you must lie, lie in the arms of the one you love. If you must steal, steal away from bad company. If you must cheat, cheat death. If you must drink, drink in the moments that take your breath away.

[Van Lathan]

I have that one. Say he's the worst.

[Mina Kimes]

This was the lamest.

[Van Lathan]

Like I have that with you. You say that to some lady on a date right now. She gonna put you on Twitter.

[Craig]

It is the lamest.

[Van Lathan]

Like she gonna put you on Twitter.

[Bill Simmons]

She gonna be like, but I enjoy it.

[Van Lathan]

Like, like that's a terrible.

[Craig]

Unless I'm misreading it. And the point is it's supposed to be corny.

[Mina Kimes]

It's bad. And she looks at him like, I

[Bill Simmons]

thought it was corny, which was what was funny about it.

[Van Lathan]

I don't at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

You think it was just genuine?

[Van Lathan]

She's a little off him. I, I, I don't know. But I think it's, I think he thinks it's cool.

[Craig]

And I think the movie's trying to say that if she were still into him, she would have liked that. Which I don't.

[Mina Kimes]

How do you feel about his speech? At anything and because he has a. Okay, so it's a testament to Will Smith's superpowers that he has many corny lines in this movie. Some. And many of them do not succeed. I actually don't think the final one really succeeds as well. He gives her that speech about like flying and leaving. Whatever. It's still fine because the ending and the kiss, but, but I don't know. Some of his lines are not great.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for what stage is best? Anything.

[Van Lathan]

Camera phones. She pulls out her little flip phone, she takes a picture of them. We can shoot whole fucking documentaries and movies on our camera phones now. They've aged really well. Also a movie about teaching people how to interact. I don't think people understand how bad things are. Like I watched a whole mini doc. I watched a whole mini doc about how right now in Japan they're having national security issues from a low birth rate and seniors living longer and kids not fucking enough cuz they don't know how to meet people. And we are maybe a half a generation behind the fact that people cannot interact becoming a economic time bomb and like blowing up societies. And this Entire movie is about a guy just teaching people, like, how to talk to women and get out of their own way. That point, we looked at those people as kind of like, oh, these are guys. But now that's like a epidemic of its own.

[Mina Kimes]

Your take coincides perfectly with mine. I had what's aged the best. The way Will Smith talks about women and talks to women. And I really believe we now desperately need a Will Smith in the world to counterpill all the, like, incel red pill pod manoverse. We need Hitch. We need Hitch more than ever.

[Van Lathan]

It's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Hitch 2.0.

[Van Lathan]

But right now, if Hitch was doing this, Hitch would be like, yes, I'll teach you all the ways to get all of these women. It's Gonna cost you $150 a month to be on the S tier of my shit.

[Bill Simmons]

That's my substack.

[Van Lathan]

And behind Hitch, it would be like two chicks in bathing suits. He's in Miami, and they look like they're gonna fuck at any moment.

[Mina Kimes]

If we had Hitch now, there'd be three women who barely talk in a panel. He' talking to, like, some other guy who sucks. He's like, kings know your worth unless she comes to you. Or, like, it'd be horrible. This is 2005, and this man has a better sexual politics that I said in the beginning than, like, a lot of people now.

[Bill Simmons]

Awful what you said, Van. That's the peop. The things I get complimented the most on have nothing to do with me. One is my wife, and then the other are how my kids can have conversations with people. And people actually say that to me and my wife. Like, it's so nice that your kids just know how to talk to people.

[Van Lathan]

I could do a whole thing on

[Bill Simmons]

it, but Dan could go on this forever.

[Van Lathan]

The whole audience is gonna feel like I'm dick riding, but I'm not gonna do it. But, like, it just is what it is.

[Mina Kimes]

Why don't you launch a show like this where you talk to men about how to talk to women?

[Van Lathan]

Cause I stay out of men's business.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we just found that out earlier.

[Van Lathan]

I said, like, hey, you gotta stay out of men's business, man. Whatever y' all got going over there, y' all got going on over there

[Bill Simmons]

there if I gotta check, you're married, serial killer. I'm not gonna judge you.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, hey. You like the way she kills? I don't know what I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

The people deserve to die.

[Mina Kimes]

Maybe they help coaching them up is what I'm saying. I'm not saying intervening literally, but I'm saying just like coach.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it goes down. We need more ro. We need more positive role models.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I'm definitely not one of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi Pursuit of happiness award for best needle drop. Usher with the yes on.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's good.

[Mina Kimes]

It took me back.

[Bill Simmons]

We had a few of the songs from the. From the 90s and the early 2000s popping in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

But it's a good needle drop. It's a good needle drop movie though.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They got Ooh wee is in there. They got Ushers, they got John Legends in there. It's like a good Neil drop.

[Mina Kimes]

The John Legend cover when there is. When they're jet skiing. I really. The. Don't you worry about a thing. But it opens with like back to back Motown. Like romantic comedy hits. Like they just go as he gets his basic principles.

[Van Lathan]

Did we talk about the opening where Hitch basically uses all of the different guys to like outli. Outlay his philosophy and all that. Did we talk about that?

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a great team. It's a great.

[Bill Simmons]

It's up there. They realized they didn't clear. Yeah. And Will Smith just called Usher and Usher gave him permission because Will Smith was the fucking man in 2005. He's like, hold on, I'll call Usher.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it was.

[Van Lathan]

So can we get the movie?

[Mina Kimes]

Were you out of college, Maniac?

[Van Lathan]

I was out of. Yeah, I was out of college just like one year. I kind of out. But still in. Still in college mode. Out of college but still in college mode.

[Mina Kimes]

See, when I was watching this, I was going back to being 13 and thinking about Will Smith. But then when yeah came on, I went back to 18 year old Mina in the basement of SAE. Just yeah. Pounding people, playing beer pong.

[Van Lathan]

It's crazy, man.

[Mina Kimes]

It was the biggest song in college in America that year.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be a funny thing to. What was the biggest song each year?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause that outkast a hey yeah song. Whatever year that was. But each year there was that Justin Timberlake song that one year.

[Van Lathan]

Which one with like 05 sexy back.

[Mina Kimes]

Sexy bag or cry me a river 067.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, sexy back. Whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

But each year there was one. What was the Cee Lo song?

[Van Lathan]

Fuck you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was 07.

[Van Lathan]

08, something like that. Yeah, that was a massive one too. All of these songs are gigantic. Like in that regard.

[Mina Kimes]

You think of the year and there's a movie, right? There's no Will Smith songs on songs. No.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's disappointing actually.

[Van Lathan]

I think he was over it by this point. I don't know. I think Wawa west might have been the last time he went to the well.

[Bill Simmons]

Surprised he didn't go into the lab and come up with a Hudson song.

[Mina Kimes]

Get hitched or something for Hudson Jet Skis. Wild west came out. What year? 2000.

[Van Lathan]

I need.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, yeah, you're right.

[Bill Simmons]

2000.

[Van Lathan]

Something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Was there a better title for this movie? The movie's working title was called the Last First Cast.

[Mina Kimes]

Terrible. Terrible. No Catch is a perfect idol.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I agree. All right, we're gonna take one more break then. Mina has a flex category. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy. Introducing new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava. For those that want to be fueled up and fired up with 100 mile an hour tropical tasting power. Ignite your taste. Start your engine. Shift your flavor to high gear with new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street, grab a can and get after it. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the Friar's Turkey breast only from Boar's Head. A backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. All right, Manny. Your flex category is

[Mina Kimes]

all right. I'm going to go with what age is the worst. I'm loathe to say his name again because it's kind of like Candyman. He'll show up in our mentions, but Michael Rapaport as a likable friend?

[Van Lathan]

Here we go.

[Mina Kimes]

It's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Here we go. Hey, man, what flex category is that then? Just. You just put that in.

[Van Lathan]

What, you just looking for a reason to shoot at him? That's not a flex category.

[Bill Simmons]

That's okay.

[Mina Kimes]

The guy searches himself. That's why I regret doing this. I was thinking, though, around this time when I watched this movie, I was like, oh, Michael Rockport. Like, hey, you know, likable friend, 90s movies, all that. And then now I'm just like, that's so crazy that he was a likable cameo during that period. So.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay,

[Van Lathan]

I don't feel like doing it, man. Yeah, I don't feel like it's gonna

[Bill Simmons]

be like you're waving a filet mignon

[Van Lathan]

in front of the whole fucking thing. It's like oh, you know. Come on.

[Mina Kimes]

All right, someone else go.

[Bill Simmons]

The Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate. The Kevin Smith kiss scene, when Will Smith. And they're on this. When Kevin Smith tries to kiss Amber Valletta.

[Craig]

Kevin James.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Kevin James. I don't know why I said Kevin Smith.

[Craig]

Will Smith. Kevin James.

[Van Lathan]

I did that in the notes a couple times.

[Bill Simmons]

The director said, will and I went to a brownstone we liked, walked up the door, knocked on the door to see if we got permission to shoot there. It turned out to be Sarah Jessica Parker's house.

[Craig]

Whoa.

[Bill Simmons]

And she was like, hi. And we said, can we answer the doorstep?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. That's crazy. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

That's horseshit. That never happened, bro. Are you nuts? This is a place.

[Mina Kimes]

This was like peak Sex and the City years.

[Van Lathan]

So you're looking for a place to shoot. You knock on the door. Will send Carrie Bradshaw answer.

[Craig]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Like the brownstone. So he's like, I'm gonna knock on the door. Basically, I'm Will Smith.

[Van Lathan]

And then she.

[Bill Simmons]

Carrie Bradshaw answers. They have a moment. She's like, sure, you can shoot in the step. That's the story.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, all right.

[Bill Simmons]

Not buying that one.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe it happened if. Since Will knocked. Since Will knocked and it's her. Maybe this is one of these brilliant, amazing New York things that can only happen there.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have, Van?

[Van Lathan]

You guys aren't going to like my answer. I think just the chemistry between Will Smith and Eva Mendes. I do not think there's very much chemistry. I think it works for the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like he had with Margot Robbie in focus.

[Van Lathan]

It's not like that. It's also the. The chemistry in the movie that works

[Mina Kimes]

the best is him and Kevin James. It's him and Kevin 100%. Yeah, that was one of my notes.

[Craig]

And even Kevin James and Allegra Cole have better chemistry than Will Smith.

[Van Lathan]

Will Smith and Eva Mendes. I don't think the chem is all of that.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not bad, but.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, it's okay. But it's not. What's so memorable from Sound like her and Denzel is that. What would you say is your best pairing? I guess you love beyond the Pines. Yeah,

[Van Lathan]

I think that A Place beyond the Pines. The Place beyond the Pines is a desperate, beautiful, tragic, amazing, sublime tale of the human condition. I think it's like, legitimately amazing movie. And I think her and Ryan Gosling in the movie are heartbreaking, but, like, gorgeous. I love it is.

[Mina Kimes]

She is. What year was that?

[Craig]

Like 12.

[Van Lathan]

12, 13.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for weakling?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, so I'm just looking at now Eva Mendez.

[Craig]

She's great in the Other Guys as Will Ferrell's.

[Mina Kimes]

There's that clip that goes viral. Y' all know the clip that goes viral, like, literally once a month? Yes. One of the best movie clips.

[Bill Simmons]

It's on the rewatch people's list.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like the Tom Holland, like, umbrella clip, where if it comes on, I will watch it from start to finish every time. It's so funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that so?

[Van Lathan]

Obviously, the Departed exists and many roles exist, but Mark Wahlberg is brilliant in that scene.

[Mina Kimes]

He's so funny in that scene. He's so funny.

[Van Lathan]

No, seriously, who is that?

[Mina Kimes]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm such a mess.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing. There's only like nine or 10 actresses in the last 30 years who could have been perfect for that scene. You know, my weak link of the film. I think the kissing scene with Will Smith and Kevin James is. Is a little odd. It's just. It's a weird scene.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

You. You. You being.

[Van Lathan]

What. What. What makes you uncomfortable by it, though, is it.

[Mina Kimes]

Are you uncomfortable with how uncomfortable they are and you're being an ally?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's not an uncomfortable thing.

[Van Lathan]

Great save, Mina.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not an uncomfortable thing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, maybe it is.

[Bill Simmons]

It goes on for, like, a minute too long. And it's just one of those, like. All right, we get it. You're trying to teach them. I don't know. I just. I just couldn't get there with it.

[Van Lathan]

It's funny.

[Mina Kimes]

So you didn't watch. I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry.

[Craig]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like that.

[Van Lathan]

One of the. Talk about scenes that are great, the

[Craig]

Jessica Biel scene mattered to me as a kid.

[Van Lathan]

There's a great scene in that motherfucker. One of the best scenes ever.

[Craig]

Yeah, I liked that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

You like the.

[Craig]

I don't know if it holds up.

[Bill Simmons]

Kevin James. You like that whole scene.

[Van Lathan]

It's whatever. I'm fucking with you.

[Bill Simmons]

I just thought it wasn't a great scene.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's whatever. It's one of the more iconic scenes of the movie, which is. That's why the take is interesting. But I don't. It doesn't bother me.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a great category for this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Weak link.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, no. Weak link. I was thinking of something else, because

[Bill Simmons]

we got to move on to what's worth weakling.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't think there are any weak links in this movie. I feel like the main core actors are all pretty solid.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst newspaper office. Let's do it. What the fuck is going on in this office? And what was this newspaper? It's a tablet. It's a tabloid.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a tabloid. It's like a tablet.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a New York Post Daily News competitor, but they have an office that's out of. It's the nicest. I've never seen a nicer office ever.

[Mina Kimes]

I actually had this as most 2005 thing about the movie which is thriving tabloid industry. And I think 2005 might be a little bit late for it. Really. The JFK show is what brought you back to when like paparazzi and tabloids. This is obviously Yearfield were just so massive. But I actually think like early 2000s,

[Bill Simmons]

a tabloid TMZ's kind of taken over.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And even like Perez Hilton.

[Van Lathan]

And our office was fucking beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

Not like this office though.

[Van Lathan]

Shit.

[Bill Simmons]

This had like a fake garden.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not even going trip. We had a. We, you know, out in Playa Vista. We had a whole at heart. This was a great office. Big beautiful shit everywhere. Ping pong the whole night. Our shit was done at the meerkat market right there. Go get something to eat.

[Mina Kimes]

I never had that experience when I lived in New York writing for Fortune magazine. I was in a cubicle writing about like IPOs. So it was not fun.

[Bill Simmons]

ESPN the magazine had a really nice big giant office.

[Mina Kimes]

It did.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

I used to go in there and

[Bill Simmons]

then at one point they just looked at the numbers and they're like, wait, why do we have this office?

[Craig]

Get out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was huge.

[Mina Kimes]

Was the building. Oh, you mean the one in New York before they moved to New York.

[Bill Simmons]

The one in New York. It was half empty at all times. It was in the best part of the city. It was pretty cool.

[Van Lathan]

Couple things for me. Oh yeah, you done real quick. Rapid fire. Almost everything Hitch does in this movie with her would be considered just like way too much and creepy now.

[Craig]

Like totally the first date to me, way over the top.

[Van Lathan]

Everything he does with her now, it's too much. Can't do it anymore. Everybody assumes the worst. Can't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Walkie talkie's like, they're googling this guy to see if he's on a list.

[Craig]

Our first date is at 7am we're riding jet skis. And then I show you Ellis island about your great great grandfather. Like Jesus Christ.

[Van Lathan]

Stalker we talked about this, the date Doctor thing.

[Mina Kimes]

I disagree.

[Craig]

Oh, go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

She liked the jet Skis.

[Mina Kimes]

None of it bothered me.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Walkie talkies were.

[Mina Kimes]

Don't laugh.

[Bill Simmons]

Were great for 05. Now you can never do it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you would know better than us.

[Mina Kimes]

I know, but I've already been cast as a chump and a mark. But I gotta say, if a guy pulled the walkie talkie thing on me, it'd be curtains.

[Van Lathan]

Can I be honest with you, though? It depends. Doesn't it all depend on the guy? Because if you like the guy, then

[Mina Kimes]

it's the human resources meeting.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought the 7am was more offensive than the jet Skis.

[Van Lathan]

Getting off the phone with a friend, it's like, man, do you think it's weird that he asked her to come somewhere at 7 o'? Clock? Is this a guy? Like, what's he gonna do? There's nobody outside.

[Mina Kimes]

You don't want to ski and go into the Hudson. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So a couple of things. Number one, you know what you don't see in movies anymore? Women slapping or slash assaulting asshole men.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, she needs him in the.

[Van Lathan]

She needs him in his nuts. I thought immediately at that point, should have called the police on her. Should have called the authorities. That's an assault.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, we don't hit like Kevin James when he assaults the newsstand.

[Van Lathan]

Does it matter? Doesn't matter how upset you are emotionally? Don't hit.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't hit.

[Van Lathan]

We don't hit anymore. And really, the only thing I had here was Will Smith's choice to fall in love with Eva Mendes and not Paula. Pull Patton. He should have. Well, Paula Patton was something special in this. I'm not gonna lie, man. Even mend. Even Mendes is special.

[Mina Kimes]

Paul Patton is Eva Mendes in this movie. I had me looking up where she ranked. You talked about Maxim in the Maxim lists from the year. Never cracked the top five. Which honestly, in retrospect, makes me question the integrity of the list. I was like, if Eva Mendes never made the top five circa mid 2000 just for terrible bought and sold.

[Van Lathan]

I was about to disagree.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not gonna do it for Wood. Stage the worst. I think the movie does drag in the middle a little bit, weirdly. Never with the Kevin James scenes. It's always when it's just Will Smith and they have a Mendez and there's a couple in the middle there that I feel like. Especially after the food allergies.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't love the food allergies. The whole fake food rave. Food allergies. The Thing is, doesn't work.

[Bill Simmons]

Kevin James's character in 2026, probably an incel.

[Mina Kimes]

I think it would be a slightly more believable man. Like, I don't think they would go that extreme because nobody would buy it

[Van Lathan]

that he would be able to get. Right.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You have a flex category, Van.

[Van Lathan]

I already did it. The Tom Arnold and True Lies. Bitch. Did you steal my movie award?

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do you did it. So let's do the CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hottest take award. I have a hottest take.

[Van Lathan]

I don't have one.

[Mina Kimes]

This is the fourth best Will Smith movie of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

Fourth best. What do you have in the top three?

[Mina Kimes]

I wrote this down. Okay. Well, I forget. Okay. I'm not okay. Men in black I.D. four bad boys. Top three. Hitch than focus. I think Focus is better than all of his serious movies. I think these two movies are better than all of his serious movies.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll go hotter. I'd have Focus ahead of Hitch.

[Van Lathan]

That's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Focus.

[Van Lathan]

Focus is good.

[Bill Simmons]

Margot Robbie brought something out of him that no other actress brought out.

[Mina Kimes]

They had better chemistry, I will say that, than this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

She tapped into something.

[Van Lathan]

If I had the hottest take is that this is probably. I mean. I mean, six degrees separation exists, but you could make an argument that this is Will's best performance or this is the movie that is. To me, this movie is more indicative of Will's stardom than any other movie. Every other movie. So almost every other movie that Will Smith is in that goes crazy, has all of the things that Will Smith pretty cynically would go for in a movie to get people out to the theater.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, I hear you.

[Van Lathan]

They have like. It has aliens, you're saying. But in this movie, this is just Will Smith star power movie. That's it. So Will Smith, if you like Will Smith, you will love Hitch.

[Bill Simmons]

But that was kind of I am legend too. Not really trapped along with that.

[Van Lathan]

No. That's a post apocalypse. That's a post apocalypse.

[Bill Simmons]

We're still alone with the power.

[Mina Kimes]

But that movie's not as good. It's not as good.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's not.

[Van Lathan]

But it's a post apocalyptic vampire movie that's based on a very, very popular piece of fiction.

[Mina Kimes]

You're making the exact same case I made when I voted for Drake May for MVP and got a lot of backlash for. But I stand by it. Will Smith was the MVP of this movie and he elevates the surrounding cast in a way he does not have to in any of the other movies that I mentioned, and I think that's a totally valid.

[Bill Simmons]

That was Diane Rossini's MVP vote for Lamar Jackson.

[Van Lathan]

We got Rappaport, Rossini.

[Mina Kimes]

I thought this was gonna come when we're talking about Rabel and people with.

[Bill Simmons]

You know,

[Mina Kimes]

I actually thought you were thinking of him.

[Bill Simmons]

The joke.

[Mina Kimes]

Somebody you love ever with someone. I was like, do not. My brain was like, don't do it. Don't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a hottest take.

[Van Lathan]

Go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm pretty proud of this one. As you know. I love the Fast and Furious franchise.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Although I. We probably could have stopped after 8, 9, 10. Haven't seen. I got off Eva Mendes. The biggest mistake they made in the franchise. She's in two is underrated. Two's borderline, like, kind of knocking too fast. Too fast. She plays an undercover cop in two Fast.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. She's great in it.

[Bill Simmons]

She's great. She's with Paul Walker. We never see her again.

[Van Lathan]

They bring her back for one scene.

[Bill Simmons]

They bring her back for one scene, I think in seven, eight.

[Van Lathan]

Like a scene. Once they start, they're going to connect their world. They're like, oh, remember all of these people? They still.

[Bill Simmons]

She should have been back and forth. She should have been in the franchise from that moment on. I don't know why she wasn't. I don't know what happened.

[Mina Kimes]

Is she the best female lead of the entire franchise to you?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I said this on one of the FAST pods I did with Shay. If you just flip her with Michelle Rodriguez from the first movie on, it's a better franchise.

[Van Lathan]

I don't agree with that.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a hot take.

[Bill Simmons]

That was my hot take.

[Van Lathan]

I think for the first time, there's

[Craig]

a different kind of.

[Mina Kimes]

She's like tough and cool.

[Van Lathan]

I know. But like,

[Bill Simmons]

yeah, regardless, we should have had both. She should have been in there. She should have been. I don't know. They bring the rock instead. I'm not against having the rock, but I just think. I don't know why they punted on her. Everyone else from a bunch of other people from Fast2 are in for the rest of them.

[Van Lathan]

Gibson becomes a mainstay.

[Bill Simmons]

She's right there.

[Mina Kimes]

Maybe she didn't want to make a move.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. She probably.

[Bill Simmons]

My guess is Michelle Rodriguez, power player.

[Van Lathan]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

She said there's only one.

[Mina Kimes]

Why is it always going to be women against women? Why are you always going to.

[Bill Simmons]

I am the female of this range franchise. She's out. No, but I don't know what they were thinking. Cause she's great in Fast two anyway.

[Van Lathan]

You know, Fast two, we weren't ready. If we would have known that the whole. This is my thought about Fast two. If we'd have known that the whole band was gonna eventually get back together, we'd have loved and respected Fast two more. But we thought that Vin Diesel and all those people were done with that franchise.

[Bill Simmons]

Vin Diesel wasn't in Fast two and it broke everyone's brains.

[Van Lathan]

That's what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

But if you watch Fast 2, it's a good movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

If we didn't know Walker Vehicle.

[Van Lathan]

If we didn' known that everybody was coming back. We loved Fast too. With the whole deal and everything like that.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but it was like, you're not. You're making fast too.

[Mina Kimes]

But where do you rank Fast too? If you ranked them all?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it's not as.

[Mina Kimes]

Have you done this? Have you done the whole, like.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but it's not. You have 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 in some order. Have to be the first five, which

[Mina Kimes]

was Tokyo Drift 3.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Three's are really good.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, three's.

[Bill Simmons]

So two or three are in the running for the six.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They brought Bow Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

I support two entries. Yeah. But once we get to eight with Charlize, it starts kind of going sideways and then we're on ice and, you know, casting what ifs. Patton Oswald was the second choice for the Kevin James part, apparently.

[Craig]

Oh, God. I mean, I like Patton Oswald, but that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's not.

[Van Lathan]

You don't like Patton Oswald.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Patton Oswald.

[Van Lathan]

No, you don't.

[Craig]

He's also in King of Queens with Kevin James.

[Van Lathan]

You just.

[Mina Kimes]

Somebody was in King of Queens?

[Craig]

Yeah, he plays the same.

[Van Lathan]

Someone just said his name, Bill. And you went, oh, God. I don't think you like him that much.

[Craig]

No. For this movie. It doesn't make any sense.

[Bill Simmons]

A picture of Alexander Skarsgard.

[Mina Kimes]

Yes. This is the cameo. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is the tabloid photograph when it talks about Allegra's cheating boyfriend.

[Mina Kimes]

Incredible interview. I came across where he said he was devastated that his actual scenes were cut. The concept of Alexander Skarsgrd being devastated by having a scene cut from Hitch is just so funny. But he was like, not in movies. Then he just did True Blood.

[Bill Simmons]

Like my friend, I talked about this on the what Lies Beneath pod. My friend from high school, Scott Carino, was Michelle Pfeiffer's dead husband in a picture.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, really?

[Bill Simmons]

We were all excited. It was like Scott got a break.

[Mina Kimes]

That movie is so scary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's a good Movie so scary. And then Ali Larder provided the face and body shots for the fake starlet and sub Esquire magazine thing they did. That's it. There weren't a lot of casting what ifs best that guy. Jeffrey Donovan. Dion Waiters has to be Chip the bar guy.

[Van Lathan]

Chip or Vance.

[Bill Simmons]

Unless you go Paula Patton.

[Van Lathan]

You can go Paula Patton. Dan Waiters. You can go Vance too.

[Mina Kimes]

Vance. I feel like his scenes are pretty.

[Bill Simmons]

Vance Munson.

[Mina Kimes]

Pretty memorable. Wait, there was another. That guy. Joe latrulio has a great moment in this movie. And the speed dating scene from Brooklyn 99 shows he gets pushed aside instantly.

[Bill Simmons]

But I laughed when I song recasting couch Director City. So I can offer you Stanley Tucci is Eva Mendez's boss instead of the guy.

[Mina Kimes]

We got some Alan Arkanson or something. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we. Can we walk through Will Ferrell on the Kevin James part really quick?

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. Young Will. Let me look up 2005 Will Ferrell because I got to visualize this.

[Bill Simmons]

It's old schools. Like, two years before Anchorman just happened. He's a huge star. I just. Can we. Can we talk it out for a second?

[Van Lathan]

I think it works from a comedy standpoint. But you know what? The only thing about it is he's too big.

[Craig]

He's too tall.

[Van Lathan]

Too tall.

[Bill Simmons]

He can't be taller than Will Spend six. Three.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but Will.

[Craig]

But Will Ferrell's like six foot five.

[Van Lathan]

Like, if you're taller than him in that scene, it doesn't look like he's little bro in you as much.

[Mina Kimes]

If they made the movie now, who would be the, like, Kevin James type? Who goes after him?

[Bill Simmons]

Do we even have these people?

[Mina Kimes]

That's what I'm asking. Like, is there like, a guy Josh Gadget?

[Van Lathan]

Maybe Josh Gad. But even Josh Gad got a little Josh Gad. Kind of smooth. I think he is. I don't know. I don't think we have the funny, athletic fat guy anymore. I don't think there's been a one. Every generation had one that it was.

[Bill Simmons]

I look for it at the combine. Belushi.

[Van Lathan]

Then it was Farley, then it was Kevin James. Kevin James. And then even Jack Black got in there for a little while. Like, as far as.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, Jack Black would be.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but like, but the funny, athletic fat guy that could really move around.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack Black could have been in this.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, I think Seth Rogen now would be a different character, but it could be really funny that he's getting coached up by Will Smith to go after Jonah.

[Van Lathan]

Jonah Hill.

[Craig]

No, Seth Rogen. It kind of happens a little bit. The Charlize Theron movie with him.

[Mina Kimes]

That's such a great movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, it's such a great romantic. What's that called again?

[Bill Simmons]

I kept trying to ask Craig if that was a rewatch one. Craig said, no, I love that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Long shot. I'll do that with you. I. I love that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you love that movie. All right.

[Mina Kimes]

So well written, funny, and Charlie Star.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't get Shawn and Chris there with it either.

[Mina Kimes]

Why not?

[Bill Simmons]

I really like that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

It's incredible.

[Van Lathan]

Nah. Fitnessy. Not fucking with that.

[Craig]

I can tell.

[Mina Kimes]

It's an incredible movie. Oh, thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

Reminding me of that.

[Van Lathan]

You have a.

[Bill Simmons]

You have a flex.

[Craig]

I'm going to play it right down the middle. Big Kahuna burger. Best food, best use of food or drink. The Benadryl through a straw made me want to try it. Looked fun. That just seemed great to me. Him drunk, going through the park, sipping Benadryl out of the bottle through a straw. Never seen that before. That was great.

[Van Lathan]

Bill. Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Van Lathan]

Craig wants to be a little lean.

[Craig]

No, that just look fun to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you. How much Benadryl can you sip through a straw before you knock out?

[Craig]

No idea.

[Van Lathan]

Have a stroke or something like that.

[Craig]

Also, there's a. There's another food and drink moment. There's a brief scene where Eva Mendes and her. Her best friend are at a place

[Mina Kimes]

called Rice to Riches.

[Craig]

Rice to Riches.

[Mina Kimes]

Used to go there after college. It's in Soho, which is just a rice pudding. It was. This is so 2005. I was. I was still in. What is this place?

[Van Lathan]

This place is for real.

[Bill Simmons]

I looked it up. I think it might still be.

[Mina Kimes]

It's just a rice pudding place. Place.

[Van Lathan]

It was like rice puts right.

[Mina Kimes]

There's so much great. Like mid 2000s New York. Yes, Mid desert. Like. Like the speed datings, like at Budokan.

[Craig]

Because they show the exterior of Rice to riches really quickly. I'm like, wait a minute.

[Mina Kimes]

And they're just eating.

[Craig]

No one really mentioned.

[Mina Kimes]

I used to go there with my friends.

[Bill Simmons]

Who makes the best pudding? My mom.

[Mina Kimes]

I love rice pudding.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a big Italian thing.

[Mina Kimes]

Is it? Yeah, I guess it's like kind of like a sweet risotto photo.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Tough.

[Bill Simmons]

It's heavy and you feel sick and tired after you eat too much food. Half ass. Internet research. We covered a bunch of them. The director, a couple more Will Smith shots. Will didn't want to do the Ellis island scene because he said black People didn't come through Ellis Island. I begged him to come to Ellis island so I could at least pitch it to him. And we tried to save the sequence. And lo and behold, his producing partner, James Lasseter came through Ellis Island. So that's why the scene was in the movie. The other thing was Will Smith can't swim and they did the Jet Ski stuff anyway. And if you look, he's got this big ass life vest. Because they had their $20 million movie star flying around on jet skis in the Hudson river and were very concerned about.

[Mina Kimes]

Isn't he on a jet Ski in the Miami music video?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think that bitch is real.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's giving you the receipts.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, it's like a green screen.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I think he just like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Eva Mendez was in the music video Miami.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, Great segue. I forgot she was in that until.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that song.

[Van Lathan]

It's a great song.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a good one. She was lip syncing BM Bonito, Miami. She mentioned this to Will Smith in rehearsals and Will Smith said he did not remember her. Yeah, Brutal soundtrack had a bunch of people including Earth, Wind and Fires in the there temptations.

[Van Lathan]

There's a very important song legend on this soundtrack.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it?

[Van Lathan]

One Thing by Amari is a brilliant, amazing song that started kind of like a lore kind of beef that happened because do not go after me. Beehive One thing. Don't go after me. I'm just telling you. So One Thing comes out and it's like an amazing record, like a great record. Rich Harrison. Like an amazing record. Then some people felt like on a song called Deja Vu that Beyonce made a little bit after that, that the sound of One Thing was kind of being recreated like the Blurred Lines controversy a little bit like there were some people who felt like that there was a little swag theft from Beyonce, who is an all time amazing, phenomenal artist, a great mother.

[Bill Simmons]

Never seen him so scared.

[Mina Kimes]

I was about to say, you can

[Bill Simmons]

see him, his leg is shaking stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Remember what they have to do before you talk about LeBron on ESPN. He's a great father, he's a great philanthropist. He's one of the greatest players we've ever seen. He's tall and handsome and all of that stuff. But there was a whole thing to where it was like, yo, did they kind of jack a little bit of swag? The One Thing record is a big record. And then that big band sound kind of came in a little bit from Beyonce and it was a whole Thing. And Marie is thriving now, but kind of went AWOL a little bit after her biggest record. Like after her biggest record.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they have on the NFL Live, if LeBron comes up, do you have to talk about how great he is or is that just the other shows?

[Mina Kimes]

I can't remember the last time LeBron came up on NFL.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a wide receiver. He's like LeBron James. And then somebody else goes, just an amazing guy.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't know. Is there an equivalent of that where we're all like, he's unbelievable? I would never question. I mean, it was kind of like that with Belichick for a while where if I ever was like, dang, he like punted again at the end, 50 yard line, I'd be like, I. I would do this actually. I would totally defend a street. I'd be like, bill Belichick has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know.

[Van Lathan]

People do know him now before when Bill Belichick.

[Mina Kimes]

But he really shouldn't have pun there, man.

[Bill Simmons]

That he lost like 20 after the Seattle Pats. That 30 seconds when he doesn't call timeout. When he walked on water. You got us back. You beat us.

[Mina Kimes]

Just thinking about that after Belichick walked

[Bill Simmons]

on water, saw the future and saw Seattle like that. He bought five years after that. That was unbelievable. A coaching moment like that in the history of any sport.

[Van Lathan]

Well, Bill is not telling you is that we have to do that at the ringer now that we got. We got rich. We have to do the LeBron thing now at the ringer before we talk about.

[Bill Simmons]

I've made fun of this LeBron. This is the Summer of LeBron. Just getting him in. I went to ESPN today. We're taping this July 8th. I went there today and he was like the first three stories. Where's he going? Can he be the third option or the second?

[Mina Kimes]

I previewed the AFC east this week. I'm on a different part of it. Yeah, go check it out.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of great divisions this year.

[Mina Kimes]

It's very. Two teams, two tiers.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, speaking of the AFCs, this was one more half ass research thing. Albert asked Egon what he thought of the design of Jets Westside Stadium.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

This was.

[Van Lathan]

They were going to do that.

[Mina Kimes]

It's presented as this like great dunk.

[Bill Simmons]

The four months when they thought the jets were building a stadium on the west side. Where the fuck would that have gone?

[Mina Kimes]

I was thinking about that watching the scene where Hudson Yards are kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Or where I guess I'm sure We

[Mina Kimes]

could look that up. But I. I was also distracted by the fact that it's like in the montage of him killing it on this date. And he says that as kind of like a rejoinders to some D bag. And everyone's like, oh, he got him. And I didn't feel that way at all watching it, but it's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, they should have a football stadium in New York City. I think it's. New York City's gigantic. There's no way they couldn't have found a place to put a 60,000 somewhere in Queens.

[Mina Kimes]

Central park, anyway.

[Craig]

Anywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Central Park. Okay. Ripping through Apex Mountain. Will Smith.

[Mina Kimes]

Nice. This is. This is.

[Bill Simmons]

It's got to be late 90s.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Men in Black, Eva Mendez. We're right around it.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know what it would be.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the biggest movie she's ever been in again.

[Mina Kimes]

She also acts really well in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this movie is the one.

[Mina Kimes]

Good performance.

[Bill Simmons]

Kevin James, I think. Yes. Because he's still on.

[Mina Kimes]

Absolutely not.

[Craig]

King of Queens is peace right now.

[Bill Simmons]

TV movies, top 10 movie. And he's.

[Mina Kimes]

Now he's more meme than man.

[Van Lathan]

Was Mall Cop not like a huge hit? Am I tripping?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a hit.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But being on TV with a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. So everything together.

[Bill Simmons]

This probably sets up Mall Cop and all the other stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

Mall Cop was one of the movies people saw my age because they're like, it would be funny if we just went and saw this movie. Kind of like Morbius or Minions. They were like, let's go see Mall Cop. Oh, no. Doing it for the bit. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Benadryl. Oh, Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if they.

[Bill Simmons]

The answer is no. It's. It's all the parents who realize they could give children's Benadil to their kids so they wouldn't cry on a plane.

[Mina Kimes]

Doesn't work.

[Van Lathan]

It's not what. That's not what I was when I was a kid.

[Bill Simmons]

It worked for our kids.

[Mina Kimes]

Must be nice giving.

[Van Lathan]

Know I was giving, you know, legitimately was putting my bottle to calm me down because I was so high strung. Hennessy.

[Mina Kimes]

Hennessy. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

True story. I like Graduation party. I was like, have a little.

[Mina Kimes]

Usually you rub on the gum.

[Van Lathan]

Have a little graduation party. Can I have a little Hennessy? Like my Uncle David. Rest in peace. Give me a little Hennessy.

[Mina Kimes]

Careful.

[Van Lathan]

I got the. I got the. I got the. I got the Hennessy. And my grandmother goes, look. What? He still likes it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, what?

[Van Lathan]

He still likes. I still like it? Yeah, it's like you were a high strung little baby. We used to take a little Hennessy like you stretching your mom out little bit. Put it in the bottle.

[Bill Simmons]

See, this is why these were the greatest generations.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

You turned out great.

[Craig]

Well, like whiskey on the gun.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, Whiskey on the gun.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. It's like little Hennessy in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Jet skis. No. Amberly.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Mina Kimes]

Wait, why no for jet skis?

[Bill Simmons]

There's got to be something better with jet skis, right? Like some Bond movie or something.

[Van Lathan]

Speed 2 cruise control.

[Craig]

Oh, the first episode of Eastbound and

[Mina Kimes]

Down Eastbound, but multiple episodes. The Miami music video also.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Amber Valletta. I'm gonna say yes.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't know she was in nothing else after this. So. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Men's hair waxing scenes. Weirdly, 40 year old virgin is same year and has a better hair wax

[Van Lathan]

than 40 year old version is the same.

[Craig]

Did 4 year old version come out first or this movie? I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they made them both in 04.

[Craig]

It feels like they wanted that scene to be a big moment and then they had to change it because of 40 year old virgin. It feels like they wanted that to be a set piece.

[Mina Kimes]

It's kind of. Yeah. It goes fast in the scene.

[Craig]

It's like weirdly, why is it even

[Bill Simmons]

in the movie Ellis Island? I'm going to say no for Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

No, I don't think it's.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to say it was probably earlier. Different part of American history.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And not even in movies because it

[Bill Simmons]

would be the post 911 New York is back movies.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like just like where New York is an actual character which we should have mentioned at the top. But this is a real New York movie.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a great New York movie.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was one of the first ones where you felt like, oh yeah, New York.

[Van Lathan]

There's only one to me that I think that is close. Spider Man. Even though Spider man comes out pretty soon after.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But like Spider man, it was like a look. Things are still happening. They actually had to take out. Remember the Spider man advertisement? The trailer they had where he made a web between the twin towers. So that next year Spider man was like, oh my God, it's New York again. Shit is still happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruiser Hanks. It's the most obvious cruise in a while.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz as the Will Smith character.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Basically doing Frank Mackie from Magnolia. T.J. mackey in Hitch. T.J. mackie. Is it T.J. mackie? Who's Frank Mackie?

[Van Lathan]

No, it's Frank T.J. mack, isn't it? Frank.

[Bill Simmons]

Frank T.J. mackie.

[Craig]

Yeah. You could argue it's Cruise and Hanks. Could Hanks play Albert Brennaman?

[Van Lathan]

I think he's too handsome.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's too tall.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, I'll say something. So Will and Tom Cruise, obviously, famously. Famously best friends for a long time. Not because they shared the same religion or anything like that, but what if Will call Tom Cruise and gets Tom Cruise to do two days on set as Vance Munson? As Vance Munson?

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Cruise would never get hit by

[Van Lathan]

a woman in a movie. Two days on set as Vance Munson.

[Craig]

I can't believe they've never done a movie together.

[Mina Kimes]

They haven't? Never. Not one.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think so.

[Craig]

It's kind of weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, special category. How would Van Lathan get out of this one?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, where are we going?

[Bill Simmons]

Someone finds out Van has actually been the Date Doctor all along Long. What do you say to Eva Mendez in this?

[Van Lathan]

I own it. I look directly at her and I say, yes, I am the Date Doctor.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta stay employed.

[Van Lathan]

Number one, you're not paying my bills, so don't worry about it. That's the first thing. So I gotta stay employed.

[Mina Kimes]

That'll work.

[Van Lathan]

It's not about whether or not it works. It's about me standing up for myself.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Number two, direct eye contact the whole time. This is who I am. I'm a day dog. And by the way, what I do is different than what you do. Blood sucking parasites.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

Like what I do is I help people find love. Look at all these pictures. See these pictures? These are weddings. These are children. This is what I put into the world. Why don't you go home and think about the fact that what you put into the world is negativity and people's business. How dare you.

[Bill Simmons]

You're judge me.

[Van Lathan]

You got to judge me. Who are you to talk to me?

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty good. Yeah, See, Dan always gets out of it.

[Mina Kimes]

That's that good. You didn't get out of anything.

[Van Lathan]

I did get out of it. You know why?

[Bill Simmons]

He made her think about it.

[Van Lathan]

Do you know why? She takes five steps and then she turns around and she goes, hitch. What?

[Mina Kimes]

And I'm like, okay, I'd like to rescind the comment I made earlier about how he should have a dating advice show. But that actually leads to me like an unanswerable question, which is, does Hitch still date Doctor after getting exposed? Also, how does Kevin James still earn a living after quitting? I wonder. This the Entire movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't feel like he actually quits. Cause she rehires him.

[Mina Kimes]

So she rehires him and he's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird.

[Van Lathan]

I have this. And what happens the next day? Like, this nigga Hitch broke. Like, Hitch. Like, she's blown up Hitch's whole thing. Like, Hitch now Hitch. This relationship between Hitch and even Mendez.

[Bill Simmons]

That's not gonna work out because you guys are wrong.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, Give it to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I had this as well. First of all, he's famous from this whole thing. He writes a book.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, how to.

[Bill Simmons]

He gets, like, a $2 million book advance, right?

[Van Lathan]

And plus, he's famous feature.

[Mina Kimes]

I also don't think.

[Bill Simmons]

Next on the View, we have Alex Hitchens.

[Mina Kimes]

I don't think the secrecy is that fundamental to him's ability to do the job. This is 2005. People don't have everything on each other. Like, he could still work with guys.

[Van Lathan]

The only problem is, well, you know what? If he rehabilitates the Date Doctor moniker and, like, he's, like, a positive guy, then maybe it's not that big of a deal.

[Bill Simmons]

Does the book Makes Them round? Comes out in paperback. Podcasts are starting. I got my podcast in 07. He has, like, the first therapist podcast. He's making 50 million a year. He's got his own. He's got his own unwell Network.

[Van Lathan]

See, guys, this is.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got the well network.

[Van Lathan]

If you're ever wondering what the difference is, this is the difference. I didn't see it. But look, he already already put a claim in.

[Mina Kimes]

That's why your business.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, man, you know that guy to Date Doctor? You think he wants to do a pod?

[Bill Simmons]

The Date Doctor pod. It's like the daily. The Date Doctor pod. Pod. It's only, like, five of them picking nits. So Albert is this clumsy loser who's knocking over coffees and everything, but is also a good dancer and athletic.

[Craig]

Well, he's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's pick a side.

[Craig]

He's not a good dancer.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he's athletic. He can move.

[Mina Kimes]

He's the horrible dancer.

[Bill Simmons]

But he's.

[Mina Kimes]

The point of it is that he's a terrible dancer.

[Bill Simmons]

He's, like, clumsy.

[Mina Kimes]

Were you watching that scene?

[Bill Simmons]

Being, like, athletic?

[Mina Kimes]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

But he's athletic. He can move and do stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

Making the pieces.

[Bill Simmons]

He spells nine coins.

[Van Lathan]

You're not gonna make it in spirit tunnel.

[Mina Kimes]

Q tip. Q tip.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he clumsy or coordinated?

[Craig]

Kevin James is athletic. Coordinated.

[Van Lathan]

Kevin James is definitely athletic.

[Craig]

He is athletic.

[Van Lathan]

He's athletic.

[Craig]

But I think the character of Albert Brennaman is not supposed to be coordinated.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even think the way they present the character. I don't even think he can do this Stay within yourself dance.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Cause they're making it seem like this guy's like a fucking disaster. I don't know. I could never get a handle on that. Hitch's shirt is torn from his body in the cab. By the cab.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, yeah, he's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Then she gives it back to him. Dry cleaning. I fixed your shirt.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, yeah? How'd she do it?

[Bill Simmons]

How do you fix the shirt?

[Mina Kimes]

That's a great point.

[Bill Simmons]

Thing got torn into nine things. What kind of tailor fixed the shirt?

[Mina Kimes]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

He's drinking Benedil like a daiquiri. I had that one. The big thing for me, Allegra's getting married. She's a famous person. Lot of interest in her life, as we've established this whole thing. And then this gossip column that's basically almost ruins her marriage. And then she's like, yeah, invite her with Hitch. Oh, yeah, yeah, bring her. What could go wrong?

[Van Lathan]

Everybody gets over it, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

No, she's telling Hitch, keep that lady home. Fuck her.

[Van Lathan]

See, this is how y' all do. I'd be like, yo, that's your girl. My girl.

[Mina Kimes]

Wanna come to the wedding?

[Van Lathan]

Y' all good? We coming to the wedding. We coming up. That's what y' all do.

[Bill Simmons]

What paper was it? The New York Standard.

[Mina Kimes]

Standard. But she's also. She is now convinced and understands at that point that Hitch's interference actually had nothing to do with why she fell in love with Albert. She didn't care.

[Bill Simmons]

What would make her like Eva Mendes character?

[Van Lathan]

Just the fact that they boys. And how you supposed to do it is that's your girl meeting Eva Mendes.

[Mina Kimes]

And Eva Mendes complimenting her bag.

[Van Lathan]

I have one gigantic, very personal picking. Did you have?

[Mina Kimes]

No good.

[Van Lathan]

I have one gigantic, very personal picking. Nick, the boss at the gossip column

[Mina Kimes]

in a different movie.

[Van Lathan]

This guy cares about the life, personal life, the workload, the work life balance of this person. I've been there.

[Bill Simmons]

That guy doesn't exist. Doesn't give a fuck. He's like, you haven't come up with anything in two days.

[Van Lathan]

Like, hey, you know this person? Go get me the story. Hey, I might break up that marriage. I don't care. Like, we. You're hooked into this story. I don't care if it breaks up in your relationship. I don't care when it breaks up. Go get the story and bring it back. Like him. Them being in that type of racket.

[Bill Simmons]

Benevolent him being in that racket. Business guy?

[Van Lathan]

No, no, sir. No way, shape or form.

[Bill Simmons]

What'd you have for nitpicks?

[Mina Kimes]

I don't know what anyone else at the newspaper does all day like that. The guy had time to just big staff. Her gay bestie who pretends to be the photographer. What does he do? I don't know. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Was he like covering high school sports for them or what's his job?

[Mina Kimes]

Don't get it at all. I had. Well, I was confused about Kevin James's job. Okay, here's one. Here's a very, very nitpicky one. So when she's sad and she watches Jerry Maguire to get. Try to get over, you know, screwing things up with Hitch. Women don't drink, eat whipped cream out of the bottle. That's something that men think women do and women don't do that. Maybe. I'm sure someone in the comments will say they've done it. But I'm telling you, it's not a thing. It's a fake thing.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean just the spray into the mouth?

[Mina Kimes]

I've never seen a woman do that.

[Van Lathan]

Rocky road ice cream. Like what's your.

[Mina Kimes]

I would eat ice cream, but I would never take a thing of cool whipping and go.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny. My daughter did do this in her teens a few times, but it now would never do.

[Mina Kimes]

Ate whipped cream out of it.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think it's like you kind of.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like a kid thing though, something.

[Van Lathan]

It's a very guy thing to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

When you think about it. Nevermind.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel, prequel, prestige, tv, Black caster, untouchable.

[Van Lathan]

I think they should do a sequel. I think they should do Hitch two. Sounds like that. I think they should do a sequel.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Will Smith in the sequel?

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Mina Kimes]

Is he not too old to be getting up to these shenanigans?

[Van Lathan]

He's. It's like he could be. He could have to be brought out of retirement to hitch it up. Hitch. His place right now in this climate would be perfect. Bring Hitch. Like I was saying, Hitch does the whole thing.

[Mina Kimes]

The world needs Hitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Has Will Smith made a movie since the movie. Since the Oscars. What movie?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Bad Boys.

[Bill Simmons]

Three Bad boys came out and he made Emancipation.

[Van Lathan]

Emancipation came out. I know you saw.

[Mina Kimes]

But that was made before. It just came out after.

[Craig]

Emancipation was good.

[Van Lathan]

I saw it. I thought that movie was good.

[Bill Simmons]

You like that, huh?

[Van Lathan]

Craig? That's my guy.

[Craig]

If the slap didn't happen, he probably would have got an Oscar.

[Mina Kimes]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

I think so.

[Van Lathan]

Well, All I'm saying is I personally don't think we're gonna do this every time we do a Will movie. We've now done two in a row with me and you. I don't think that he's as in the dirt as you think that he is.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he can only play the characters from the past. But I don't think he could be likable. Carrie movie. Will Smith for a while.

[Van Lathan]

Well, he was back at 4 though, so like that was already gone. Like there was proof. There was enough proof of Will Smith's career. King Richard was actually perfect movie for him at that point. Cause it was a prestigious.

[Bill Simmons]

He was great in that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

I think it's the trickier thing than the baggage. Is just his age. Right. Like a lot of the roles that we're talking about, somebody at this age just doesn't really make sense.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie, the Florist, Zane Lowe, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nicholl, Ted Levine, William X or somebody else? I couldn't come up with anybody.

[Craig]

Ted Levine. I'd like Hitch giving advice to Ted Levine. Hey, I got a lot of notes. The voice,

[Bill Simmons]

maybe. Maybe the pit.

[Craig]

Maybe a new house.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe the Pit. When you keep people down.

[Craig]

Airbnb a place. Maybe a new place.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think women like the butterflies.

[Craig]

We gotta change a lot. I'm gonna charge.

[Bill Simmons]

That should be Hitched too. He gets Jame gum as a client. She's trying to figure it out with him. Probably unanswerable questions. I did write down, did Will Smith have more sexual tension with Eva Mendez or Kevin James? Yeah. Knicks, Grizzlies, March 21, March 24, 2003 or 2004? Grizzlies 111, Knicks 97. Marbury had 23 and 10. Hal Gasol 23 for the Grizzlies.

[Van Lathan]

Rookie of the year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was right after the Marbury trade. Trade. Everyone in New York was like, knicks are back. And then it couldn't have gotten worse.

[Mina Kimes]

Is a sports, an event, game, whatever. Actually a good setting for a first date.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's like a third date. Yeah. So it's a. We've spent a little time together. Now I'm trying to impress you, but

[Van Lathan]

once you get to that threshold, it's a perfect date. Lot of stuff happening, people watching, a lot of opportunities for conversation. You can eat all of that stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm gonna parse this out. Baseball, Amazing. Basketball, very context dependent. Football, Nightmare.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, well, football includes travel and it's

[Mina Kimes]

just tense and People are yelling and standing, and every play matters.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, basketball is great, great, great for dates.

[Mina Kimes]

Basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause I went to a lot of Celtic games. My dad never.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, if it was a game you really cared about. No.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it was bad Celtic team. So it was like fun to go. And you could learn. You got a feel for people and you could explain what was going on. Like, it. Baseball's good too.

[Van Lathan]

I knew a guy that would take girls on dates out here to high school sports.

[Mina Kimes]

Like Friday Night Lights. Like. Like. Like a Friday night game.

[Bill Simmons]

The biggest football games.

[Van Lathan]

Well, he would be like. He'd say, hey, you know, there's this young kid that I mentor or whatever,

[Mina Kimes]

and I want to go see his

[Van Lathan]

game and stuff like that. Then they go watch P High play somebody like that. And they sit out there and he'd be like yelling like, yo, what? He. He had a whole thing. He played on my league basketball team.

[Bill Simmons]

And this guy's name was Van.

[Van Lathan]

Not me. It's not me. He knows who he is.

[Mina Kimes]

He's on the street. That's actually a powerful move. Cause then you're like, mentally taking her back to being in high school. You're on the bleachers. There's a lot of like.

[Van Lathan]

It's also cheap.

[Mina Kimes]

It's like fun.

[Van Lathan]

It's cheap. You look like you care. He's like, yeah. He's like, I take.

[Bill Simmons]

I take a. I took a date to the Celta game once, and she got up at halftime and got all her stuff. Cause she thought the game was over. I figured that was not a keeper. That was a one. One date.

[Van Lathan]

Now you think that's what she was thinking? She was like, I can't wait to get out of this bitch.

[Mina Kimes]

She actually confused.

[Bill Simmons]

She was. I was like, oh, boy, we're in trouble.

[Craig]

Can I ask an unanswerable question?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

How much do you think Hitch was charging in 2005?

[Mina Kimes]

A lot.

[Van Lathan]

Oh.

[Mina Kimes]

What do we sell at the apartment?

[Craig]

Like, are we talking like 20 grand? 10 grand? 5 grand?

[Bill Simmons]

I would say probably 1,500 a week.

[Craig]

Apartment was really nice.

[Mina Kimes]

Really nice. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Because this is going to take a while. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. 1500 a week?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Is it like half up front and then if it works, you pay the second half? Is it all up front?

[Van Lathan]

I think you go into it saying, I have no guarantee. There's no guarantee that, like, it goes where you want it to go. I can only give you the best opportunity.

[Bill Simmons]

But how did he find customers? Word of mouth referrals.

[Van Lathan]

They say in the Movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but like, really, like, what guy is gonna be really excited to tell other guys that they found, right.

[Mina Kimes]

That they're serious guys know. Guys would absolutely tell other guys.

[Van Lathan]

I'm about to say, apparently y'.

[Mina Kimes]

All.

[Van Lathan]

Y' all the ones that's getting in the middle of y' all friends relationships and all kinds of stuff like that. Apparently y'.

[Mina Kimes]

All. I would love if I had a friend who was like unlucky in love and obsessed with women who are out of his league. I would love to be able to not listen to them and say, hey, just call this guy and wash your hands.

[Bill Simmons]

My idea for a rom com is centered around my wife who always thinks she can set people up. And I think she's like 0 for 99. And the name of the movie would be the 100th Setup. And it would be like, if I get to 100, I'll stop doing this. But the 100th one is the one that actually works. Yeah. I just sold a Netflix movie called the Setup, actually. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

And in the process, she falls in love herself perhaps.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, interesting.

[Mina Kimes]

Or no, me, I take it out the hundreds.

[Van Lathan]

Solid idea.

[Mina Kimes]

Let me work. Let me doctor this. Yeah, the hundred setup.

[Bill Simmons]

The wife falls in love with the guy.

[Mina Kimes]

No, the guy falls in love with her because she's single and she's always trying to set people up and failing. And then.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's not a wife or she's a divorced.

[Mina Kimes]

No, the lead has to be a single woman.

[Van Lathan]

I think there's another way you could go. Like, another way you could go is so your character tells her. Because like, you start the movie with a terrible date that's happened at your house between two people. Your character tells her, hey, you can't set nobody else up up, cuz this is ruining my life. Then you fake. You, you tell your buddy, hey, you, hey. She's going to set you up, but you're telling him you can't be in love with the woman.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't fall in love. Because the last time she'll ever do this.

[Van Lathan]

I need you to go do this.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the girl finds out an hour into the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you made a bet that you wouldn't fall in love with me.

[Van Lathan]

And then like, you. And then you and your wife get like, hey, I want this to stop. But these two crazy kids end up falling in love.

[Mina Kimes]

What about a movie going? We were talking earlier about like interfering where a husband and a wife have two friends who want or are the wife's trying to set up. Maybe like she has A friend who's just never lucky in love, trying to set her up with your male friend and you're trying to stop it at the same time. So you're actually going against each other. And you don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Bride Wars.

[Van Lathan]

A little bit.

[Mina Kimes]

A little bit like Brad first thing,

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, don't set anyone up. That's my advice. You're pretty early in this marriage thing. There's no upside. Best case scenario is they end up together and maybe you'll go out to dinner with them a couple times. Worst case scenario is like 19 things.

[Craig]

Yeah, we had a bad setup situation. One of my friends set up another one of my friends. They dated for a year, didn't work out. Nobody really liked the relationship. It ended and they were like, okay, never again.

[Van Lathan]

I got one last one. It's about a black dude in la. You meet him, right? And you decide you want to set him up. And you're talking to him and he's like, I really. I escaped this really terrible place to where nothing goes right for black people. And you say, where is this place? And he goes, it's called Boston. And. Then

[Bill Simmons]

that was really to pay him reparations.

[Van Lathan]

You have to find him. It's called Bill Russell Story.

[Mina Kimes]

I thought that was going to end with him moving to Philadelphia. I was waiting for that.

[Van Lathan]

That's even better.

[Bill Simmons]

Memorability. You must want for the movie. Wait, what Memorabilia. You would.

[Mina Kimes]

I guess the. I mean, I was very interested in the scuba suits personally, so I really liked.

[Bill Simmons]

He had this thing behind him at one point, the Will Smith character dynamic dating diagram. And it was like the size of that Die Hard poster. And I thought that would be a good artifact from this movie. Craig does.

[Craig]

This is super weird to have in his apartment, by the way, like you would never have.

[Bill Simmons]

That's so weird. It's funny to have that, like, over

[Van Lathan]

there, you know, I always. I want. Cause at this time, this was one of the. When we saw this movie and things. The fact that Will could control his whole apartment from the little. That was a big deal in the mid-2000s where you could do that. You look like the man, like the whole deal.

[Bill Simmons]

I know what you'd want. It's the walkie talkies.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, the walkie talkies.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, the walkie talkies. That's easy. That's the one.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Finstock. Mr. McUar. Best. Worst life lesson. Life is not the amount of breaths you take. It's the moments that take your breath away.

[Mina Kimes]

No, there's so many Lines like this

[Van Lathan]

wake up every day like it's on purpose.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't need gimmicks. True love doesn't need gimmicks. Would be my life lesson. Best double feature choice. I have focus.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Come on. Obvious.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Van Lathan]

Six degrees of separation, which I watched after I watched this just because Will is so charming in that.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I love that movie.

[Van Lathan]

And he's so charming in that. Well, that one scene after they get in the tuxedos and they're riding through the thing that blew Kalinka's hair back a little bit, when Will just straight up offers it.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that movie. I have nobody to do that. I'm rewatching my. With the kids in that movie are the funniest ones.

[Mina Kimes]

Don't look at me.

[Bill Simmons]

The kids in that movie. That it's. That movie's really good.

[Van Lathan]

You talking about Heather Graham and then.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm talking about the parents.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what mom left you.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, we just did the double feature Crazy Stupid Love and probably go pair together perfectly.

[Bill Simmons]

I hesitate to ask who won the movie.

[Van Lathan]

Ah, Jesus Christ. It's one of the. Yeah, it's like who won Terminator 2? It's like. Yeah, yeah, It's Will. It's Will. No, Kevin. You guys making the Kevin James.

[Mina Kimes]

Kevin James comes close. It's still Will Dartmouth. It's still Will Smith. But your category is wise.

[Craig]

I think Will Smith does win the movie, but I think Kevin James is very close.

[Van Lathan]

I agree.

[Craig]

I think Will Smith wins the. The movie. Let's not overthink. He does. But Kevin James is an awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Will Smith wins the movie. But Kevin James did make me really think about this. And if you're talking about the concept of winning the movie, Will Smith was already winning with every movie he did at the time. Yeah, Kevin James really needed a movie like this.

[Mina Kimes]

This was like his big breakout, right?

[Van Lathan]

What you think about that category? Because it happens. Like, you almost come. Somebody almost comes and steals somebody else's movie. It's. Sometimes they just outright steal the movie, but then in this case and in True Lies, I think Arnold still wins. I think Will Smith still wins, but like, razor thin. Almost.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Craig, let's hear your review. You called for this movie, so we know what you're gonna think.

[Craig]

Yeah, this is a millennial classic. This is like On My Mount Rushmore of the millennial movies I've seen a million times that we haven't done yet. I mean, you guys. Yeah, I think Kevin James and Will Smith, two of the better physical comedy actors. And that's why that dance so good is just like two people truly at the peak of their game. Even just the way Will Smith bounces back and forth is, like, so smooth. And Kevin James doing his thing. It's so good. I think they went four for four in the casting. Like, it's just.

[Bill Simmons]

They really did.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's just really good across the board.

[Van Lathan]

We already talked about this.

[Craig]

But also, I think Will Smith's advice in this movie is good. Like what Mina was saying. I think that 9010 is good. I think the dance stuff.

[Mina Kimes]

He makes a lot of good points.

[Craig]

I think stay here when you're dancing is good. Good. He says, like, listen to it.

[Mina Kimes]

It's impossible to not watch that scene. And he's 100.

[Craig]

That's the best advice in the movie. If you're a man about dancing, dance like that.

[Mina Kimes]

If you're a woman. I was watching it thinking, like, yeah, I might actually do this.

[Craig]

It is so smart. Just do that.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Sean Payton talking about Josh Allen. Speaking of Sean Payton, keep him in the pocket. He's going to throw interceptions.

[Mina Kimes]

Kevin James played Sean Payton. Do you remember that? In 2000 in the Sean Payton movie. Right. Am I misremembering that? No. That happened, right? That's not a fever dream.

[Bill Simmons]

You did Sean Payton movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Dude, they made a Sean Payton movie about recently, New Orleans. Like the Katrina. Yeah, it's called.

[Van Lathan]

Was it was. It was the movie.

[Craig]

It's called I Can't Believe It's Home Team.

[Mina Kimes]

Home Team. Kevin James.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's like one of those.

[Craig]

Adam Sandler produced it.

[Van Lathan]

Was it about when Kevin.

[Bill Simmons]

When.

[Van Lathan]

When he got suspended and had to coach?

[Mina Kimes]

Yes. Sorry. That's what it's about. Yes. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I did not see that movie.

[Van Lathan]

I couldn't bring myself to watch.

[Mina Kimes]

It really is.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a Saints fan. I couldn't bring myself to watch.

[Craig]

I do think Kevin James could have been a bigger comedy star. And I don't really know why he wasn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Mina Kimes]

I think his choices.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the.

[Mina Kimes]

He made Paul Bloy.

[Bill Simmons]

Too many.

[Van Lathan]

Paul.

[Craig]

But, like, Paul blart was like 2010. I don't know why he wasn't.

[Mina Kimes]

He's made stuff since then.

[Craig]

Like, why, you know, he could have been in all those great movies.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, look, he's one of those guys that they spun him and for some reason it didn't happen. They spin a lot of guys and the guys stay around, but for some reason they spun him. And he had success. He's a successful comedic actor, without a doubt.

[Craig]

When you're on a show like that, you make so much money, like King of Queens. He's loaded.

[Mina Kimes]

So do you think Zoomers just think he's the meme.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Of him standing. Do you think they have any awareness that he's more than that?

[Craig]

I think you could make the case Paul Blart ruined his career.

[Van Lathan]

God damn.

[Craig]

Well, because I think it's like, well, that's Paul Blart. That's the fat mall cop. And then since 2009, it was like, well, now everybody just thinks he's Paul Blart.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. The grownups universe helped him a lot. Those movies are pretty huge success.

[Craig]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Paul Blusher under 25, like, those are like giant movies with my kids generation.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

His choices, like, he never. Like, if he was in the Apato, you know, like, if he had done better written movies, he probably would have more longevity.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

This movie shares something in common with Crazy Super Love is that these movies make the cities that they are in look like cities you want to fall in love with.

[Craig]

Like, he could have been Steve Carell in Crazy Stupid Love.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. He could have, like, beautiful looking movies with beautiful people and all of that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

He could have been Gosling in La La Land, if you really think about it.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

What's happening?

[Craig]

Could he have been Batman? No, he.

[Mina Kimes]

Could he have been Will Smith? In investing, I think he made all

[Bill Simmons]

the choices he made for a reason. I think he was just going for, like, almost like what Jack Black is doing now with, like, he's just doing specific type of movies and making money from it.

[Van Lathan]

He got jacked for MMA movie, like, legitimately. I remember that.

[Bill Simmons]

She did, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Really?

[Craig]

Anyway, he got jacked for a season of King of Queensland as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Did he?

[Craig]

Yeah, he got. He got fit. His character gets.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the movie you said you were gonna come back for at some point that we got excited about?

[Mina Kimes]

Well, I'm always trying to get Game Night. Oh, no, you were.

[Bill Simmons]

No Charlize movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, I love that movie. People complain if we do that, though, because I feel like nobody. Have people seen that movie Long shot.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's why we haven't done it yet.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, people should. So good.

[Bill Simmons]

You need like 10 minutes. You need like 10 years to marinate with the.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, it's been 10 years. When did that come out? Pre. Pre pandemic.

[Bill Simmons]

That was 2019. It was pre pandemic.

[Mina Kimes]

Freaking love that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It' like Charlize.

[Mina Kimes]

I've rewatched it several times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's great in that movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Who wrote that? Whoever wrote that.

[Bill Simmons]

Good side characters.

[Van Lathan]

She's starting to become underappreciated.

[Mina Kimes]

Charlize the goat in my house.

[Bill Simmons]

Not after the Odyssey.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I haven't seen it yet.

[Bill Simmons]

She plays calypso.

[Van Lathan]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Bill Simmons]

It's very good casting.

[Mina Kimes]

Is she naked? That's the only takeaway I have from your voice. There's no naked picture right now.

[Bill Simmons]

No nudity. The movie. She's just a God on an island who has to make another God want to stay for seven?

[Van Lathan]

Did you enjoy the Odyssey?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was amazing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's what everyone's saying.

[Mina Kimes]

Can't wait.

[Van Lathan]

Besides, the people who haven't seen it, it's pretty great.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a pretty great movie. All right. Thanks for doing Hitch. I forget who suggested out of the two of you, but it was one of you. Or maybe it was Craig.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, yeah, we talked about focus on the last episode, not Hitch.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Good to see you, Mina. Good luck. Good luck with this last month before football kicks in.

[Mina Kimes]

I'll see you. You're going to.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm coming on your pod.

[Mina Kimes]

Bill's doing power rankings coming out of power ranking.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I told her she couldn't have you on because you're on 19 pods.

[Van Lathan]

Upsetting.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you could go on. You gotta get her on.

[Mina Kimes]

People were surprised when we did last pod that we already knew each other in a pleasant way, I think.

[Craig]

Why?

[Mina Kimes]

I don't know. But the reaction I saw was like. When people see a picture of a duck and an elephant as friends or something thing. People were like. People were like, that's adorable.

[Van Lathan]

Look at them. Look at them.

[Mina Kimes]

They were like, that's unlikely friendship.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm coming on Tailgate next month too. It's UCLA football time. We're. We're like making a real run.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know.

[Mina Kimes]

Really.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if I'm ready for college football.

[Mina Kimes]

Dude, I went to the UCLA game. It was rough last year.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they have my coach now. Chesney, my guy.

[Van Lathan]

I got. I tell y' all something real quick. Quick take college football better be ready. UCLA is serious. Serious. They are not around.

[Mina Kimes]

Is it still the quarterback, this. What's his name?

[Bill Simmons]

It doesn't matter.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, he was bad.

[Van Lathan]

You're talking about Nico.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't bet against Bob Chesney.

[Van Lathan]

But I think. I think they're making. They've. They're going to tailor the offense or whatever. Yeah, just from being there and walking

[Bill Simmons]

through the Dan might dump lsu.

[Van Lathan]

This is really.

[Bill Simmons]

He moved from Louisiana to la.

[Van Lathan]

See how you see how you dump

[Bill Simmons]

Louisiana for la, now you're gonna dump LSU for ucla.

[Van Lathan]

Like you, not you will never happen. I've never been as interested in how a college football season was going to play out than the UCLA season this year, though.

[Mina Kimes]

Jeez.

[Van Lathan]

I'm serious.

[Bill Simmons]

There we go. All right. Thanks, Bina. Thanks, Craig. Thanks, Caha. Thanks everybody else. We'll see you next week. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods. It's hot out there, folks. Whether you're planning a family road trip, backyard barbecues or a watch party party, you'll find everything you need to beat the heat with the quality you expect from Whole Foods Market. Find sales on Best of Summer Fruit, stock up on cooler friendly drinks, and discover no antibiotics ever meets for the grill. You know, something like a New York strip steak plus made in house kebabs, skewers and sausages. Shop Whole Foods Market in store or online. Get your first delivery free with prime terms. Apply.