‘L.A. Confidential’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Andy Greenwald

Summary

The Rewatchables – ‘L.A. Confidential’ (1997)

With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Andy Greenwald – The Ringer

Released: March 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

The Rewatchables roundtable (Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Andy Greenwald) celebrates the close of "CR Month" with a deep dive into L.A. Confidential (1997). The crew explores why the film—an intricate neo-noir about corruption and dreams in 1950s Los Angeles—has earned its spot in the Rewatchable canon and remains one of the crowning achievements of 90s Hollywood. The conversation covers the film’s landmark adaptation, themes of city myth versus reality, its memorable casting, and what makes it endure almost 30 years after its release.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Place of ‘L.A. Confidential’ in 1997 and Hollywood Canon

• Oscar History and 1997's Movie Landscape

  • [05:12] Bill Simmons: Lists 1997 “rooted” American classics: Titanic, Boogie Nights, Good Will Hunting, L.A. Confidential, Jackie Brown.
  • The group discusses the long-standing sentiment that L.A. Confidential “should’ve beaten Titanic” for Best Picture.
  • [06:01] Andy Greenwald: “It was definitely the critics’ pick… We all felt very smug for loving this movie and keeping up for it, but I don’t think there was ever a moment when it seemed like it was like... It was never gonna win against a juggernaut like Titanic.”

• A Sumptuous, Harmonious Studio Film

  • [06:52] Chris Ryan: “This is a five-tool movie… acting, writing, cinematography, direction, and music are all, like, completely in sync, completely in harmony. There’s not a bum scene, really, in this movie.”

• ‘We Used To Make Things in This Country’

  • The hosts repeatedly reference how such films—ambitious, adult, mid-budget, layered—feel almost impossible to get made today, contrasting studio risk-taking then and now.

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2. Adaptation: From Ellroy’s Book to the Screen

• Radical Streamlining of the Source

  • [16:32] Chris Ryan highlights the difficulty of adapting James Ellroy’s sprawling, “Byzantine” crime epic: “It’s an incredibly brave adaptation… two guys, [Brian] Helgeland and [Curtis] Hanson, sitting down and just drilling like, what is this movie going to be about? And every scene needs to be about one of the three cops…"
  • [18:30] Andy Greenwald: Praises the adaptation for making a film “respected on both sides”—by book fans and fresh audiences.
  • [21:34] Chris Ryan: The film boils Ellroy’s 500-page novel down to a brisk, “ruthlessly efficient” 2 hour, 18 minute movie.
  • [21:58] Bill Simmons: “It’s a structurally almost perfect movie… this is like a big-ass bone-in filet. Like, no fat at all. Just zooming through it.”

• Ellroy’s Complicated Relationship with the Adaptation

  • [95:41] Bill Simmons: “James Ellroy’s relationship to the film is all over the map... 1997, he said it was a work of art… in 2016 he said it was problematic. In 2023 he said it was turkey of the highest form and that Crow and Basinger are impotent...”
    Chris Ryan: “And then when Curtis Hanson died, he was like, it’s a pretty good movie.”

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3. Themes: Corruption, Dreams, and L.A. Mythology

• L.A. as Character and Mirage

  • [12:43] Bill Simmons: “L.A. is a beautiful, seductive, fucked up place that’s really here to break your dreams and steal.”
  • [13:32] Chris Ryan: Links the nostalgia of 90s period pieces like Boogie Nights and L.A. Confidential to vanished bones of “old” L.A., lamenting the loss of its historic look.

• The Underbelly—City of Angels, City of Devils

  • [15:35] Bill Simmons: Quotes from the film: “Life is good in Los Angeles. It’s paradise on earth. That’s what they tell you”; “How can organized crime exist in a city with the best police force in the world?”
  • [27:21] Bill Simmons: Themes: “tabloid culture, police brutality, racism, good and evil, seductive L.A. that’s here to steal your soul.”
  • [28:21] Sean Fennessey: “It’s a really good movie about the real and the fake and how they coexist in this city very comfortably… there’s a lot of crime and a lot of sadness and poverty and terrible things… and they all are just kind of coexisting.”

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4. Casting: Then-Unknowns, Breakouts & The Best Performers

• Crowe vs. Pearce vs. Spacey

  • [08:32] Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey: Crowe and Pearce as true unknowns—Crowe pegged for stardom, but Pearce’s “weirdness” serving him in surprising ways.
  • [41:49] Sean Fennessey: “They’re making this movie in ’07, it’s clearly Bale as Exley—2005 range. Because you gotta admit intelligence for sure...”
  • [42:28] Bill Simmons: Recites Spacey’s ‘95-’99 run: Usual Suspects, Seven, Outbreak, A Time to Kill, L.A. Confidential, American Beauty. “He’s really good in this movie. And now it’s like ‘Kevin Spacey, problematic to say the least.’”

• Spacey’s Performance—Masks and Layers

  • [44:22] Sean Fennessey quoting Ellroy: “Spacey is so deft, is so controlled, is so subtle. Is so good at suggesting a character’s inner life with a minimal of outward action.”
  • [43:16] Bill Simmons: “Classic Spacey performance where it’s like, is this guy straight or gay? Is this guy a good guy or a bad guy?... He’s playing it, always, where you’re trying to figure out what he’s up to.”

• Kim Basinger’s Oscar—A Bizarre Win

  • [48:47] Sean Fennessey: “Among the more bizarre wins in recent Oscar history. I don’t think she’s bad… but the Oscar is just like, she has four scenes.”
  • [50:44] Bill Simmons: Recaps her competitors (“What the fuck are we doing? ... should just put a thousand people in a movie theater, show Boogie Nights and L.A. Confidential, and be like: guess who won Supporting Actor. It’s just insane.”)

• Danny DeVito as Sid—The Weak Link

  • [91:12 onwards] Multiple panelists pick DeVito as the film’s “weak link” – his Danny-ness and showiness take them out of the movie.

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5. Memorable Scenes, Motifs, and Moments

• The Interrogation Scene

  • [64:24] Bill Simmons: “This scene’s a fucking banger.”
  • [70:16] All agree the “multi-room interrogation” is the film’s most rewatchable and electric scene—a “masterpiece” of pacing, acting, and tension.
  • [70:31] Chris Ryan: “Bud with the chair, Dudley and Jack, the sort of deep focus shots. It’s just… all the reflective stuff that they’re doing. It’s so awesome.”

• Rollo Tomasi and Stealth Plot Twists

  • [31:24] Bill Simmons: “Rollo Tomasi… one of the great stealth plot ideas of all time—it reveals itself in a small way, but you’re like, oh, it’s way up there.”

• Montage Aftermath, Victory Motel Shootout, and Dresser Parties

  • [73:27] Chris Ryan: “What’s really great is the post-Exley shootout montage… That works.”
  • [67:28] Chris Ryan: The climactic shootout at the Victory Motel is praised for spatial clarity and controlled mayhem.

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6. Legacy, Rewatch Value, and Attempts at Imitation

• Adaptation Difficulty—Many Imitators, Few Successes

  • [143:41] Bill Simmons: “A lot of people have tried and failed to make movies like this… There’s only a couple that have actually made it.”
  • [128:01] Andy Greenwald: Two failed attempts to make L.A. Confidential as a TV series, with Walton Goggins and Kiefer Sutherland separately attached as Jack Vincennes.

• Why It Endures

  • [21:38] Andy Greenwald: “It just rolls almost to the point of you just get lost in it. And I stop taking notes both times, watching it.”

• CR’s Hot Take, Film as Modern Noir

  • [100:25] Chris Ryan: “It feels really true to life… all of it looks like the 50s, but it feels like a 90s movie… It’s cut like a modern film, the acting style is decidedly modern… the perfect balance.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “This is the only thing I wanted was this quartet. This is my LA quartet, actually.”
  — Chris Ryan, [03:03]

• “This is a five-tool movie… There’s not a bum scene, really, in this movie.”
  — Chris Ryan, [06:52]

• “The movie’s amazing plate of chicken parmesan—you cut in and you look at the layers… there’s a lot going on here.”
  — Sean Fennessey, [08:11]

• “I love LA. I love that it’s a shithole. I love that it’s full of people doing terrible things to each other every day. I think that’s fascinating.”
  — Sean Fennessey, [12:56]

• “City of Angels is full of devils, right?”
  — Andy Greenwald, [27:10]

• “The stealth plot idea—Rollo Tomasi—is up there with Kaiser Soze and ‘What’s in the box?’”
  — Bill Simmons, [31:24]

• “Classic Spacey performance—Is this guy a good guy or a bad guy?”
  — Bill Simmons, [43:16]

• “What are her five best performances? You know, she’s Vicki Vale. She was a Bond girl. She’s in Nine and a Half Weeks… but the Oscar is just like, she has four scenes.”
  — Sean Fennessey, [50:03]

• “Danny DeVito is just Danny DeVito. Takes me out of the movie a little. His Danny DeVito-ness is just too omnipresent.”
  — Bill Simmons, [93:02]

• “There are a couple opportunities to discuss food and drink in this movie. …I feel like movies set in an era when there are no choices in liquor stores. You walk in and you say, give me a box. And in that box I want gin, scotch and vodka. And the guy’s like, okay.”
  — Andy Greenwald, [111:09]

• “This is the rare actor-actor for Pierce and Crowe—like two best actors.”
  — Sean Fennessey, [58:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:12] 1997: A legendary movie year; Oscar talk
• [06:52] Five-tool filmmaking—why the movie is “perfect Hollywood”
• [14:57] L.A. as the city of dreams and broken hopes
• [16:32] Adapting Ellroy’s dense, dark novel
• [21:34] Film’s ruthless efficiency—the adaptation challenge
• [28:21] Real and fake in L.A.: city mythology, coexisting darkness
• [31:24] The Rollo Tomasi twist; stealth plot inventions
• [41:49] Guy Pearce as proto-Bale; casting context
• [43:16] Kevin Spacey’s multilayered ambiguity and performance style
• [48:47] Kim Basinger and the “bizarre” Supporting Actress Oscar win
• [64:24] "The Interrogation Scene"—peak movie moment
• [73:27] Victory Motel shootout and montage analysis
• [91:12] The Danny DeVito debate: weak link and alternate castings
• [100:25] Hot take: why this is the perfect “modern period film”
• [128:01] Failed TV pilots, TV vs. Movie format discussions

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Memorable Debate, Trivia & Flex Moments

• Cromwell as Dudley Smith: The Ultimate Heel Turn

  • [55:00] Panel discusses how Cromwell’s “nice” typecasting made his twist so shocking.
  • [56:03] “It’s like a heel turn.”

• House Porn: Movie Real Estate

  • [85:42] The Amanda Dobbins Real Estate award: Panel discusses the distinctive Hancock Park house, its recent sale, and the famed Lovell House.

• Iconic Background Players

  • [105:52] “Craigs” (that guys): shouts to David Strathairn, Matt McCoy, Thomas Arana, and others—the “deep bench” that supports the leads.

• Line of the Night

  • [83:22] Sean Fennessey: “Multiple split diopter shots in the movie… it just jumps out at you.”
  • [91:00] Chris Ryan: “Best line reading was when Jack says to Exley, ‘Why in the world do you want to go digging any deeper into the Night Owl killings, Lieutenant?’”

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Panel’s Personal Takeaways & Legacy

• [141:00ff] For the hosts, L.A. Confidential is not just a film that endures—it is a pivot point between classic and modern Hollywood; one of the last studio prestige pictures successfully blending genre and substance.
• [141:00] Bill Simmons: “Crowe wins the movie because it sets up 10 years of Russell Crowe being one of the biggest stars we have.”

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Final “Who Won the Movie?” Verdict

“Crowe is the answer. Crowe wins the movie because it sets up 10 years of Russell Crowe being one of the biggest stars we have and a few. It has to start with this.”
— Bill Simmons, [141:00]

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For First-Time Viewers / Key Recommendations

• Start with the Interrogation Scene: [64:24–70:43]
• Focus on the City as a Living Character
• If You Love the Movie, Try “In a Lonely Place,” “Touch of Evil,” “Chinatown,” and “The Blue Dahlia”
• Watch Twice: Several panelists suggest the movie improves notably on rewatch as the intricate details and character arcs unfold.

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The Rewatchables’ L.A. Confidential episode closes "CR Month" by affirming the film’s status as a quintessential, grown-up neo-noir, fondly revisiting its blend of nostalgia, cynicism, and movie-movie craftsmanship, and relishing its complicated, utterly Los Angeles soul.

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Notable “Rewatchable” and “Most ’97” Moments

• Spacey’s ambiguous “star” performance
• Crowe’s muscle and rage
• The unforgettable interrogation sequence
• A Basinger Oscar that no one can understand—even 30 years later

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To hear more: Find the full archive of Rewatchables films at The Ringer.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert Assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. Before we start today's show, I have an announcement. It's been a while since we've done a live rewatchables on the road. That's my fault. I'm just lazy. I'm sorry, but we are finally. It's never happened before. We're coming to San Francisco. We've never done a live show in San Francisco. And that's all about to change because I am bringing cr, I'm bringing Van, I'm bringing Mallory and we are doing a live episode of Basic Instinct, which we did a million years ago. I think during COVID We're running it back. It's going to be way more fun. We have more categories and one of the more fun movies to talk about from the last 35 years. For a variety of reasons, I'm not even sure it's legal to have Vanna Mallory in the same place talking about Basic Instinct. We'll find out. We will be at the ACT's Tony Remby Theater Wednesday, April 8 and you can join us. Tickets go on sale Wednesday, April 1, 10am Pacific. All you have to do is head to theringer.comevents for more information theringer.comevents and you can see us. Wednesday, San Francisco April 8 There's a Giants game that day. There's a Warriors game the next day. We're right in the middle of it. We're going to see you in San Francisco. This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by TikTok. The online world moves fast. That's why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind from the start. On TikTok, teens get over 50 built in protections right when they join. Their accounts are private by default. For those under 16, direct messages are turned off. Only friends can comment on their videos. When safety comes first, discovery can follow. Learn [e-mail] GuardiansGuide the Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We are in a new studio we have in Hollywood which allows us to have four people on the rewatchables again. Four people who have never done A video podcast together. Even though we have all worked together, really, since the early 2000 and tens. Sean Fenasey hosted the Big Picture. Andy Greenwald, Chris Ryan, you guys did a little podcast called Hollywood Prospectus in the Grantland days, and now we're here. You do the Watch together. Greenwald's always doing stuff. It's the end of CR Month. We couldn't have CR Month without you, Andy.

[Andy Greenwald]

I really appreciate it.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the only thing I wanted was this quartet.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is really meaningful to me.

[Chris Ryan]

This is my LA quartet, actually.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have to say, there are not three men on God's earth who have done more to celebrate the greatness of Chris Ryan publicly than these three men. We have really gone above and beyond.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a CR celebration when you guys were around.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's, you know, Chuck Klosterman. He loves you. This trio. We love Chris Ryan.

[Andy Greenwald]

Are we bringing Bernthal in now or after the show?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, to go back to the start of the Rewatchables, the first, the early Seeds of the Ringer, which was basically my back house 2015, and we started my podcast, and we started the Watch with Chris and Andy. And it got to the point where they would just kind of go through my house. My dogs wouldn't even bark anymore with the codes. You were doing the Watch. And that was also where the Rewatchable started because we did the anniversary heat, December 2015. And now we've all circled back and this is the last episode of CR Month. What did you think of the choices, Andy?

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought they were amazing, that they were representing the man himself. I thought it was a little. We were just discussing. It's a little chalk at the end. You could have gotten a little more creative.

[Bill Simmons]

What was that really wanted that you didn't get from CR Month? Like, what would have been the craziest, wildest one for you? That would have been realistic.

[Andy Greenwald]

Rise of Skywalker. Just run it back.

[Sean Fennessey]

That'd been good. Some of your favorites.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I mean, I think we all thought you were going to do Heat again, but I don't know if there's anything left to say there.

[Chris Ryan]

No, we'll save it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just plenty to say. I have a lot of thoughts. I have more thoughts than I've ever had.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was the live show that you did about Heat considered?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, no.

[Sean Fennessey]

That was canon. That's not canon. Okay?

[Bill Simmons]

That was just an excuse to have Chris do Pacino impersonations, for, which was

[Chris Ryan]

really just me screaming like, I think. I think I have to go back in the lab with Pacino.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think you're going to take a step back for the next month?

[Chris Ryan]

I asked him about this and he was like, what are you talking about? You know, I was like, am I. Am I getting put out to pasture?

[Sean Fennessey]

Money never sleeps.

[Andy Greenwald]

This isn't. This isn't the gold watch. This wasn't like, are you going to

[Craig Horlbeck]

be pesy if you.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, you guys are the gold watch.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come on.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, coming up next, a request from CR LA Confidential, 1997. Sean, Titanic, Boogie Nights, Good Will Hunting, L.A. confidential, and Jackie Brown. We used to make things in this country.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'll have you know I have the exact same list right in front of me. 1997 movies. Boogie Nights, Jackie Brown. I have others, but we can talk.

[Bill Simmons]

But those five specifically just feels very rooted in 97. And then this one. Greenwald. The revisionist history of 97 now is that this should have won the Oscar and not Titanic. So why don't we just start there? For sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. This was definitely the critics pick. It was definitely the burgeoning college student who wished they were critics pick. We all felt very smug for loving this movie and keeping up for it, but I don't think there was ever a moment when it seemed like it was like. I mean, it was never gonna win against a juggernaut like Titanic. But it wasn't even like a hit. Well, it was more of a critically well regarded, modest smash.

[Bill Simmons]

The type that they don't make.126, which I was surprised it kind of hit

[Chris Ryan]

that people used to be satisfied with.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it did pretty well, but it just was up against the most successful film in the history of movies. So by comparison. But you, you were in the academy at that time.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I was a huge, huge Titanic supporter. I mean, I think my work speaks for itself, the way I whipped votes during that time period.

[Bill Simmons]

Big call girl guy. So this movie resonated with him immediately. Why this one? Why did this have to be in CR Month?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that this is kind of a perfect Hollywood movie. It's interesting because I have a kind of different relationship than people may assume or you may assume, which is like, I love it, but I love it conditionally because I come to it from the novels. I come to it from the Elroy books, and it's quite different than the novel. Elroy has a weird relationship to it. I think he knows it made him a lot of money and made his name go even further than it already had. But I think he also is like, they left out a lot of the plot and a lot of the sort of soul of the book and kind of sanded down the edges. But that being said, like we said with Fargo, I think I was like, fargo's a five tool movie. It's like this is a five tool movie too, where it's the acting, the writing, the cinematography, the direction, and the music are all, like, completely in sync, completely in harmony. There's not a bum scene, really, in this movie. We can nitpick about it, but, like, you're watching this and you're just watching the best that Hollywood can make, I think, at this era.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you agree with that?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's like an amazing plate of chicken parmesan, you know, In a good way. In a good way. Yeah. It's like. It's not that complicated.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the Dantana's chicken parmesan.

[Sean Fennessey]

I love Dantana's chicken parmesan. It's gone downhill, Andy.

[Bill Simmons]

No, save that for hottest hay. Cantanus Chicken parm is wonderful.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's just. It looks on the surface like it's gonna be simple, but then when you cut in and you look at the layers, you look at the depth, the way that the sauce meets the cheese meets the chicken, there's a lot going on here. There's a lot. It's deeper than it seems. And it's only 29.95 on the menu, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, and we also have.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not at bandanas anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

We have chicken parmesan prices for Crow and Pierce.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is of the things that really helps us. Crow's not even Crow yet. He's barely Crow. Neither knew him from the one Denzel movie. Didn't know him from anything else at the time.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think it was Romper Stomper.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Sean Fennessey]

That was his biggest movie to that point. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, have you guys done that yet?

[Bill Simmons]

Romper Stom.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a good pick.

[Sean Fennessey]

That would have been the final. Yeah. The final edition for the.

[Bill Simmons]

That was going to cr.

[Chris Ryan]

Year cr 27.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a fun one. You.

[Sean Fennessey]

And you wanted to do an entire Nazi Month. Is that what you said? Nazi adjacent. The believer. What else could you do there?

[Andy Greenwald]

History X. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Coming out of this, would you have bet on. On Pierce or Crow being a bigger star? Because I would have been on Crow, but Pierce is. It's a great movie for him.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought that they would both be big stars.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And Pierce is actually a little bit weirder. Like the parts of the character that. The reason why he gets the part, right, is because he has the cheekbones and he looks like a leading man.

[Bill Simmons]

Straight jaw.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But he's kind of a freak on the margins. And I think that that served him well in the later part of his career. But I thought that he was like, yeah, he's going to be the more handsome leading man type coming out of

[Sean Fennessey]

it, I guess I thought. Crowd. The movie really loves Crowe. It's really, really interested in Bud White in a way that I find even the book isn't as interested in Bud White. And you can tell. And Curtis Hansen, the director, talked a lot about how most of the executives wanted the movie to be Bud White's movie. And they wanted it to be like,

[Chris Ryan]

guy kicking ass all around.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Almost like Arnold Schwarzenegger is the toughest cop in 1950s Hollywood. And obviously he wasn't gonna let that happen. But, I mean, Crowe went on to have the bigger career. I'm not sure if this is in my hot take or what, but Pierce as an actor is just a fascinating guy and his career is really, really interesting in where he's gone. And the fact that he's still cooking, like he's still doing his best work right now says a lot. Crowe is in a way different place. So the legacies are kind of perfect. Right. Cause one guy really went up, the other guy did fine. And then they kind of traded places somewhere along the way. So it's really interesting in that way.

[Chris Ryan]

He's a little bit. I don't even know if he's a little bit older. How much older than DiCaprio is he? Like maybe five, six years. Right. For him, it's not LA Confidential. That's always the big question mark.

[Craig Horlbeck]

For me.

[Chris Ryan]

It's Memento because I think it would be relatively easy to project him into a number of Christopher Nolan leading roles going forward. And at which point you start to get into like, could that guy have been Batman?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, well, there is like, there are a bunch of bale movies you could have thrown him in and he probably would have been able to drag him.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's a great comp. That's it.

[Andy Greenwald]

We can save this for the casting part, but this was a question I had too, because obviously the casting makes this movie. And the casting was kind of not controversial, but more challenging because Curtis Hansen said he wanted Unknown so that the audience didn't have preconceived notions. But if you think about. I'll defer to the film experts here on this, but, like, who are the other 30 year old people that they may have been trying to put in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

There's some kicked around. McConaughey was the one.

[Bill Simmons]

The casting what ifs weren't what I wanted. McConaughey was the big one. It's funny, it's a perfect daemon part. Like he was a little young guy Pierce one. It's basically he plays that part in the Departed.

[Andy Greenwald]

Guy Pierce is like 10, almost 10 years older than DiCaprio.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if I would have bought McConaughey as Exley. I think that would have been a bad move.

[Chris Ryan]

It's coming off Time to Kill where it would be like pretty much like an extension of that character.

[Sean Fennessey]

And they're wearing the same glasses as the as in A Time to Kill.

[Bill Simmons]

Pierce had a certain energy. It was, it reminded me of when Sean got to Grantland where he's like, I'm just here to do good work. But he was secretly scheming who he could take out. Listen, that's, that's the, that's the guy Pierce energy.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't want to bogart this, but I, I did come into this movie realizing why you picked this group. Because if you had to do it, there is a hothead who can hang with everyone and is strangely popular with the ladies. There is a cerebral power broker who is very, very moral. There's another charming power broker who knows where all the bodies are buried and

[Bill Simmons]

a senior role and I'm committing crimes.

[Andy Greenwald]

And then you had to get a semi self loathing guy who moonlights in Hollywood and kind of forgets where his bread and butter is and gets called back. So it's works up.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Hollywood.

[Sean Fennessey]

Andy, we've got beautiful Lynn Bracken over here too in the producer's chair.

[Chris Ryan]

Craig is going to be like, it's all hush.

[Bill Simmons]

Simon Baker character, Matt Reynolds,

[Craig Horlbeck]

they're all back. Come on, crack.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just acting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that you haven't done it before.

[Sean Fennessey]

That makes cahow Johnny Stompanato, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah, no question. Well, my te. I wrote this down. LA is a beautiful, seductive, fucked up place that's really here to break your dreams and steal.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is that what we told Sean when we wanted him to move for Grantland? I believe it was.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm so happy that I'm here. Honestly. I love it here so much. And this movie is a good reason why I think most people have this weird, tortured relationship with the city. And I'm like, I love it. I love that it's a shithole. I love that it's full of people who are doing terrible things to each other every day. I think that's fascinating. It's way more interesting than you would have it be understood. When you're watching movies in the 90s and you're like, oh, this is the city of dreams. I don't dispense with all that. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the nastiness of the city. And this movie's all about that, really.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, go ahead.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, just worth it. Because Curtis Hansen is from here and I feel like you could. He's not as interested in the narratives or presenting it a certain way. He's just like, well, yeah, this is also a place.

[Chris Ryan]

There's something kind of melancholic about watching this and watching Boogie Nights because I think they're both, you know, obviously period pieces made in the 90s about earlier eras of Los Angeles. And one thing LA had, I think, even up to maybe the point where we moved here, was still. Those bones were still there. Like, you could still probably shoot the outside of the Formosa and not have a target next to it.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And now that it's kind of, I think, fully changed, I think you can still find it in different neighborhoods. But it's wild watching this movie and thinking about how little they must have had to do when it came to Hollywood, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. In the 90s.

[Chris Ryan]

Because if you're shooting Hollywood in the 90s, I mean, it doesn't look that much different than Swingers, you know, it's

[Andy Greenwald]

45 years between when the movie is set and when they filmed it. And it's 30 years since they made it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

One of the great themes that we've talked about in other Rewatchables episodes about la, that everybody comes here wide eyed with a dream. Right. And sometimes it really works out. Sometimes it kind of works out. But multiple characters say this in the movie. Like Kim Basinger says at one point, like basically says, I didn't obviously come here to do this, but it's kind of. She still ended up. Right. Some people try it, try it, try it. And they leave. And we knew, you know, I'm older than you guys, but we had a bunch of people when my kids were younger, that kid, the parents in schools. And one guy's trying to be an actor, another person's trying to be a director. Eventually it just doesn't work out.

[Sean Fennessey]

You moved here for a job in show business, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I moved here to write for a TV show. But this is kind of how it goes. And sometimes the city chews you Up. I mean, the corruption stuff, which I think we've seen in the last 30 years, has morphed into different, more public versions of this. But that underbelly of what was going on, that was always part of the romance of la. Right. It's like, could make you. It could break you. You could be found dead. You don't know who the good guys

[Chris Ryan]

in the bad guys are. Yeah, a lot of people who don't want to know how the sausage is made.

[Bill Simmons]

Godfather, Jack Waltz.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right, Khatoum.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen to me, my Kremlin friend Jack

[Chris Ryan]

would have fit in great in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

You could have easily thrown him in. But there were two quotes in here. One was, life is good in Los Angeles. It's paradise on earth. That's what they tell you, anyway, DeVito says at the beginning, and then, how can organized crime exist in a city with the best police force in the world? Which seems to be. You're big on these Elroy books, but this seemed to be a huge theme in these LA books in the 40s, 50s, 60s.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So he writes this quartet of novels, the LA Quartet, Black Dahlia, Big Nowhere, which is my favorite, LA Confidential. And then White Jazz. And like, they kind of get increasingly Byzantine and hallucinatory as he goes on. And he would later take on the Kennedy assassination, one of your pet projects.

[Bill Simmons]

You just recently talked about that.

[Chris Ryan]

And.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait a second.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And they try immediately.

[Bill Simmons]

We saw the Kennedy assassination.

[Sean Fennessey]

No kidding. Wow. Congrats. That's great. Are you going to visit the White House? What's going to happen next?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's done.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they don't even need me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they don't need him.

[Chris Ryan]

He basically tries to write a secret history of Los Angeles with these novels, and some of them are fictionalized versions of real characters. So in the novel of LA Confidential, a lot of stuff is happening at what is basically Disneyland, but is not in this adaptation. I think one of the things that really, really struck me about watching this and refreshing myself with the novel is it is an incredible adaptation. It's an incredibly brave adaptation. But it's also like two guys, Brian Helgeland and Hanson, sitting down and just drilling like, what is this movie going to be about? And every scene needs to be about one of the three cops and hopefully one.

[Bill Simmons]

So initially it was eight. Right. And they narrowed it down to three.

[Chris Ryan]

It's got eight characters, so many characters, so many different spinning out spreads over eight years.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right. It's like a much broader canvas.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Three years in this movie and more

[Sean Fennessey]

real people in the book than are in the movie as well. Even though the movie. The movie is trying to balance, like the truth of Hollywood versus this created world. It's an incredible book that I voraciously read right before the movie came out and was kind of shocked by how different it is. But it has this really readable but also awkward style where it's all staccato. The writing is five word sentences over and over and over and over again. So you almost like can feel the words coming out of the typewriter as you're reading it. It's a very unusual. And it's different from his other books. His other books are not like that as much. I feel like they're a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

The White jazz is a little bit. It's like weird. The. The movie is way closer to the way like Robert Towne writes in Chinatown than it is Elroy's novel. But the scenes are short in this film for the most part. And I feel like that replicates the feeling of page turning, like where you're like, I just gotta keep going. But you're right. I mean, his Elroy's authorial voice is. You can't replicate that on screen without extensive voiceover.

[Andy Greenwald]

But can you think of another example of an adaptation that is respected on both sides of the aisle, like the way this is? Because I think people who love the book understand that it's a different beast and respect how well it's made. This and Cruisin, the only two is Cruising.

[Sean Fennessey]

A book.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a book, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

It was a novel.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I got in my bag.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

You've got it memorized.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy's trying to adapt it right now.

[Sean Fennessey]

You want to be on the re. Cruising. They're going to cruise again.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy was with us on the cruising. Andy, have you ever. You're a guy who's written some scripts from time to time for the last, I don't know, nine, eight, nine, ten years.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Have you ever tried to adapt a book?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

How hard is it? What are the things we don't know?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, it's very hard. I think the hardest thing is the fidelity issue. Like when I did Briar Patch, I basically just took the characters and the plot and changed everything. Because A, it's not a beloved. I mean, it's a. I love it, but it's not a very well known book. So you have that liberty to do it. But I think the most important thing is when adapting anything is that you have to, as the adapter, try not to be too Precious about what, you know, other people love and zero in on what you love. Because the enthusiasm is the one thing that you can carry from the book to the screen. And I think that that's what these guys did to a degree that is almost unprecedented. When you see you watch Curtis Hansen on Charlie Rose from promoting the movie 30 years ago. And he brings the same pitch that he brought to Arne Milchan and the producers to Charlie Rose, where he's like, here are six images that I found about coming to Los angeles in the 50s that remind me of a place that I grew up in that no longer exists. And I showed him a picture of Aldo Ray and I thought about how I love these characters even though I hate them. And those were the pillars of his adaptation. And for whatever reason, maybe it's ego or whatever, he felt comfortable throwing everything else away.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I think that if. If I were trying to adapt a James Ellroy book, I would just completely lose myself being like, well, we can't have this without this. We can't have this without the Disney character. We can't have this without Inez being a bigger character.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's like a metastasized tumor. Everything touches everything.

[Chris Ryan]

No, we're fucking screenwriters. And we need to make every single scene go into the next one. And every action has a consequence. And every single thing needs to be about the theme of these guys. And it's just a really, really impressive piece of work in that way.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it's notable that of the LA quartet, only two of the books have been made into movies. And the other one is a really bad De Palma movie. And the other, I always wanted to see white jazz. And Clooney wanted to make white jazz for the longest time. And you heard about smokehouses, white jazz for like five years and it never happened. And that book is so cool and fascinating. It's about like a cop who is also a hitman for the mob. And then he has this like, kind of confrontation with himself over how the city really works. And he's also really hot for his sister. Incestuous, crazy book that never happened, but they're really hard to do. So I think Andy's right on. Like, this is an amazing way of kind of culling something that's very big. Like a 500 page novel. Down to 2 hours and 10 minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's just like there is a central mystery that we are going to solve.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's ruthlessly efficient, too. I feel like. I know you probably all noticed it when we were rewatching it, like looking for a seam, looking for something to either make a joke about or point out. And it just rolls almost to the point of you just get lost in it. And I stop taking notes both times, watching it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, there's some stuff that I'm like, this wasn't as electric as I remembered, but there's nothing where I'm like, you could just lose this. Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's a structurally almost perfect movie. I noticed. I watched it two times in the last video. I was like, man, they're just. This is like a big ass bone in filet. Like, no fat at all. Just zooming through it. I think if I adapted, I would be more in the Kubrick camp. Like, kind of like, fuck this guy with the writer. I'm getting some moon landing stuff in here. And I almost think if the author's mad at you when the movie comes out, maybe that's where you want to be.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but there's a difference between like the guy who write Eyes Wide Shut who's like, you know, dead, and like James Elroy going around being like, this is a turkey communist.

[Sean Fennessey]

Kubrick does the same thing that Andy is talking about though, which is like, he just picks what he likes. Like. Yeah, in Lolita he's just like, this is so funny to me. And he's. I'm going to make this like a broad comedy about a 45 year old man who wants to fuck a teenager.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

And that's, you know, that's. There's a comic aspect of Lolita, but it's not Peter Sellers doing bits, you know. Yeah, that's true. So I think it's like, it's kind of brave. But also I think there's some like industrial design to the way that Curtis Hansen did it too, where he was just like, studios don't want to make period pieces. They don't want to make noir movies because they never make any money. I'm not going to shoot this in black and white. Like every choice I make is going to be so this movie can get made so that it can be commercially successful and that I can also make something that I think is artistically interesting. It's a pretty like slick move by an old studio directing Hand his run

[Chris Ryan]

here where it's like hand the rocks of Cradle River Wild this. And then Wonder boy's an 8 mile kind of like culminating after that.

[Bill Simmons]

Just the tour de force in her shoes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Erasure in her shoes.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not at this table.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's kind of like the dark twin of Ron Howard. You know what I mean? Like that incredibly safe pair of hands.

[Bill Simmons]

Save that for your one man show. That's a good one. Dark Twin and Ron Howard.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it is. I John Howard. What if the Apollo 13 crashed anyway? He's just like this incredibly professional. Like, maybe there's nothing in this that's like super flashy. Like, holy shit, Scorsese camera move or something you've never seen before. But all of the jigsaw pieces wind up coming together.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's the thing. When I was watching it, there is no even some of the questions that I know were categories we're going to get through about if it could be improved in certain ways. Like every single piece of this movie is in service to the movie. It is the type of like buttoned up, industry forward professionalism that we do.

[Chris Ryan]

It kind of reminds me of Apollo 13 in that way where it's just like, oh, you're watching it and it's like, oh, man. And then this and then this and then this.

[Andy Greenwald]

And there's no ego. And like Dante Spinati is like, yeah, I know how to shoot this. And Jerry Goldsmith is like, I get it. Yeah, I'm already 75.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's just a bunch of grown ups who are like, we got a really good idea for a movie. This is how we're going to do it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's make the picture.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, he did the opening credits. Wasn't that part of his pitch?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He had all the postcards. That was like literally how he made the movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Hand that rocks. The credo is a great example. That movie's been made 17,000 times. It's being made now. You could go on Netflix and probably find five of them right now. They make them on Lifetime every week. And for some reason that's probably the best one of all of them. Except for maybe Fatal Attraction. We're doing it. We're saving it for From Hell month. It's just so well done. But what's the movie? It's like, Nanny's mad at the family and she's just getting revenge. Like, that's every Lifetime movie for some reason. That's the best one.

[Sean Fennessey]

It is. I popped it in last night after watching LA Confidential just to be like, what was Hansen's style, to your point? Like, trying to figure out what is it that he does with the camera, how the movies look, the colors of the movie. And it's a totally different looking movie, totally different feeling movie. But even though it is a bonkers script, do you remember the premise of the Hand that Rocks the Cradle, where it's like a woman is assaulted by her obgyn and she goes public on him. And then he kills himself and his wife. His widow then gets a job. Annabelle Shore's nanny seeks revenge.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's De Mornay's part. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

So it's like. It's a nutty.

[Bill Simmons]

And the only person's on tour is the special needs gardener.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Played by Ernie Hudson.

[Bill Simmons]

Frames.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's right. I forgot about the gardener.

[Bill Simmons]

The movie's amazing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Julianne Moore's in it.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's murdered in it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's a.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a bizarre Julian Moore's hall of Fame smoking performance cr. Just smoke burring from every.

[Sean Fennessey]

But it is like the ideas in it are lifetime movie level, you know, like it is really dopey in a lot of ways. But it looks so great and it feels so professional.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you watch these interviews with Curtis Hansen and his heroes and some people he actually interviewed. Cause he started as a journalist visiting sets as he talks about like Howard Hawkes, Sam Fuller. And it's just like the thing is the thing. And speaking of great shows where people talked around a wooden table, I did watch this Charlie Rose interview. And he's like, well, Charlie, you know, every movie has a simple concept behind it. And you should just say it in a line, you know. And he's like. So he asked about Hand that Rocks the Cradle. And he goes, every movie has a simple concept. Charlie leans in and goes, is it the hand rocking the cradle? He goes, no, it's just be careful who you trust when you turn around.

[Sean Fennessey]

But the intellectualism, patented Rose charm.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the LA competence?

[Chris Ryan]

GYN kills himself and you say, what?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe that could be a new CR character.

[Chris Ryan]

Charlie. I tried him out before.

[Bill Simmons]

What is LA Confidential in a sentence?

[Andy Greenwald]

City of Angels is full of devils, Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Sounds good.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a good line in it. I think it's Jack Vincenzo says, everybody wants something. This is a real everybody.

[Andy Greenwald]

Whatever you desire.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down some themes, including tabloid culture, still prevalent. Police brutality. Haven't gotten rid of that yet. Racism still exists. Good and evil. Sure. Seductive and beautiful. LA that's here to steal your soul still exists.

[Chris Ryan]

How about using blackmail against the rich and powerful to advance your political and financial interests?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, no, that's a bridge too far.

[Bill Simmons]

What else? Anything.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it's a really good movie about the real and the fake and how they coexist in this city very comfortably that you can see Michael Jackson having a dance off with Spider man on the streets. Of Los Angeles. And that feels normal, that you can step on the walks of fame and that feels normal, that you can walk past the Chinese Theater, that you can go up to Beverly Hills and look at homes, you can go on tours of people's homes in the city. And also, you know, there's like a lot of crime and there's a lot of sadness and poverty and terrible things happening in the city on a daily basis and that like, they all are just kind of coexisting in a way that is very unusual even for. By Metropolis standards.

[Andy Greenwald]

But to that point, maybe, and. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about it later, but maybe the most important scene in the movie is the scene when Exley insults the real Lana Turner, who is actually dating a real gangster. All of which was true. Johnny Stampanato and Lana Turner were dating,

[Bill Simmons]

by the way, that was its own movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have just detoured into a separate Stampanato movie. I don't think they ever made it.

[Chris Ryan]

Because of her daughter, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, her daughter murdered her. Were you worried about spoiler alert there on the murder of Johnny Stompanato?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, don't worry about that. Sierra. What you said, though, when I moved out here to work for Jimmy show and we were at Holly Boulevard and would go out to get coffee and Spider man and Superman were doing, and it took me six months to get used to it. How weird everything was. The man theater, where the premieres happen, the stars, just the weirdness. But you do get used to it. You do. And I don't know, for everybody it's different. For me, it was like six months in, I wouldn't. I wouldn't blink.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that, like, I start every single day here the same way, which is like, it's too bright, it's too hot. And then I get to 6pm and everything turns purple and it's the perfect temperature. And you're like, oh, I'm never leaving. You know, it's like. It's that kind of weird. Like you can exist in heaven and hell at the same time. Sensation that Elroy writes about incessantly.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Greenwald mentioned the three types of police officers in this movie. Aggressive, rule breaker, star fucker, personality builder, and straight arrow idealist. And they do a great job within 20 minutes of like, okay, I get your type of. I get you. I get you. Cromwell. Hmm. What's he up to? And it's just we're all.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the genius move that they pull is that they all have to go before the police commissioner and Respond to the same question, which is, are you gonna rat on your friends?

[Sean Fennessey]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

And Exley says, yes. Jack says, maybe, and Bud says, fuck no.

[Sean Fennessey]

One of the ingenious ideas of the book that is also really well preserved in the movie is that, like, those three characters are three very clear male archetypes post World War II, right? There's, like, the GI Bill, college boy. There's the World War II grunt, right, who was in the trenches, who's, like, all muscle. And then there's like, the very cynical, like, I just want to get what's best for me person in the 50s is trying to kind of get fat as he heads into the second half of his life. And those are, like, those set up, I think, kind of an archetype of masculinity over the next 75 years in America that are really smart. And the idea of using them as, like, this triangle, of trying to solve something together is really, really fascinating. You know, they kind of do represent, like, one person. Ultimately. They kind of feel like the totality of a guy living in a city.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, so each one of them, during the course of the movie, tries to overcome the limitations that they realize they have placed on themselves. Like, Bud's whole thing is that he's not smart enough to do it until someone tells him that he is. And then Exley comes shocked.

[Chris Ryan]

They all want to be the thing that they are not. Like, Exley wants to be his dad. Jack wants to be thought of as moral even though he knows he's not. And Bud wants to be smart even though he's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't forget all the call girls who want to be various stars. Y. They get cut.

[Andy Greenwald]

They get cut that work.

[Bill Simmons]

Cut to look like we're running out every time.

[Sean Fennessey]

If you could be cut to look like anyone, who would you be cut to look like?

[Bill Simmons]

Chandler Bing.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

Rolo Tomasi. Yeah. One of the great stealth plot ideas of all time. Because I was thinking, like, they're the big ideas, like, where the Kaiser, like, ironically, Spacey. Kaiser Soze. Awesome. Oh, holy shit. What's in the box again?

[Chris Ryan]

Spacey.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you know, the Sixth Sense. We all know, like, the huge ones, the stealth. I don't know what this is. And then it reveals itself in a very small way, but you're like, oh, it's way up there. I don't even know what it's competing against.

[Chris Ryan]

Movie invention. The Rollo Tomasi idea is Hansen and Helen, like, coming up with themselves.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's such. There's elegance and efficiency in play throughout the entire movie because you were thinking about these different archetypes. And the movie does a. I think people can watch this movie and be a little confused the first time, potentially. It doesn't really hold your hand. And yet if you watch it again, you realize that it does do the chyron of the characters names. It does show Susan Leffert's face. When we first with the narration to remind you, it nudges you. And then when you get to something like Rola Tomasi, you can imagine Helgland and Hanson for months beating their heads against the wall, being like, how can we combine these moments? How can we educate the characters with something that is clever, with something that gets us along the track fast?

[Bill Simmons]

You couldn't have called it John Malone? Like, the Rolo Tomasi was really smart. It's a memorable thing. My son. I watched it with my son. He missed it. He didn't.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the big deal?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's the two. And then when Cromwell says it's him, you really have to be paying attention to Pierce's face. So I don't think he totally got it. And Pierce does such a great job in that scene with just.

[Andy Greenwald]

He does a lot of jawbone action.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's like that's the way Tom Cruise usually looks. So Dudley wouldn't pick up on Exley looking like he has to take a shit anyway. It's always kind of how he looks.

[Bill Simmons]

His eyes are doing. Craig, had you seen this movie before?

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Was it hard to follow? And did you get the Rolo Tomasi?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I did get the Rollo Tomasi, but to Andy's point, I had trouble. Sometimes there are so many last names just being thrown around throughout the entire movie that I had to kind of stop and almost like go to another tab and be like, wait, which one has this last name? That part was harder. But I did catch Rolo Tomasi.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

It's funny. It's like there's two things that jump out at me when I watch it. One is that Buzz Meeks is one of the main characters of the previous novel. So like his. His life and death in this book is much more significant, kind of. And then the heroine, which kind of is a runner throughout the plot of like somebody stole the heroine from Mickey Cohen. And it's like that is a major animating factor in the book. And it kind of gets yada yadaed at the end of the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think he's never said it, but I think it's one of the reasons why Elroy is very hot and cold on the movie is. Cause it cuts out that part of it which he's. That's like the way that drugs started running through the city is a big theme of all of his novels. And the movie is not really super interested in that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, it's the same thing with the freeway.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like the sort of the actual spine of what was changing and how it was going to be changed is kind of yada yada.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you miss heroin as a big plot in a movie? Feels like we're not getting it as much lately.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, I mean, we live in a time where, you know, like a different kind of drug I think dominates these kinds of movies too. Like opioid.

[Bill Simmons]

Opioids.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's the different thing. But like, I remember vividly talking to my dad when he was literally on a heroin task force for years. And then they like kind of paused that and shifted their focus onto more fentanyl related cases when he was working. Because everything in this country changed. Doesn't mean heroin is gone, but it just doesn't hold the. This is the rise of heroin, you know, like, this is the rise of, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Coming up next on First Take, heroin or fentanyl. What's the better movie drugs in that?

[Andy Greenwald]

What Sean was saying, Chris, it's like the rise of Skywalker.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You mentioned the screenplay and how it came from the 1990 James Elroy novel where basically Hanson said he was talking about the apparently golden era of the 20s and 30s, which had been basically bulldozed. I was trying to think of other movies and TV shows that kind of hit that a little bit. Mad Men, when they went to la, which I can't remember, I haven't. I gotta rewatch Mad Men's my next sauna show after I'm done with Thrones.

[Chris Ryan]

Your Instagram followers after I get out

[Bill Simmons]

of the 1300s and go to the 1960s. But Madman was in LA almost for the whole season. Right. And didn't it tap into this remembering vaguely?

[Andy Greenwald]

He would go. He would go occasionally. And then one season, Pete is living out here. And it was the only time they could ever do exteriors because they shot LA for New York the rest of the time. So everything was. Which kind of helped the show. Cause it was kind of hermetically sealed. But I think it definitely captured the sense still the boom times of being out here, that this was a place where everything worked and was golden and verdant and full of possibilities and opportunities and sunshine.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, in pre sports because the dodgers come late 50s and so do the Lakers.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the Angels come, and then all of a sudden it's like, la, Here we go.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Pre Wally Joiner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But that idea that's in this movie too, of like, we're selling it. We've decided on the dream we're going to sell people. But we had to create this, too. This is everything.

[Chris Ryan]

Me and Sean's beloved Babylon is also about this.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It is.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's probably the best representation of that period of time that this movie is kind of reacting to.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a TV movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Nope. It was a feature film directed by Damien Chazelle, starring Brad Pitt.

[Bill Simmons]

Margot Robbie came out in the theaters.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep. Yep. Good film.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll look for it.

[Andy Greenwald]

But you could also make the point. I think this is something that Curtis Hansen did as well when he was pitching it around, that most noirs that we think of as classics are set in, like, the 30s and 40s, which was psychologically and physically a different time in America. Fashion is different intentionally. And the only 40s in this movie is Veronica Lake, and that's intentionally. She's, as we say, cut to look like that. Everything else is just an abundant optimistic time. And this is still the underbelly of it.

[Bill Simmons]

So Hanson held a mini film festival for the people in the movie and showed them the bad and the beautiful in a lonely place. Don Siegel's the lineup, Private, Hell 36 and Kiss Me Deadly. I don't know if Sean had any thoughts. I haven't read your substack.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I ask you.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if you covered those.

[Chris Ryan]

Would the most fun part about directing a film be like programming the pre

[Bill Simmons]

Film festival, the film festival for the cast?

[Sean Fennessey]

That would underline the fact that I don't know how to make films, but I do know how to program the festival of old movies.

[Bill Simmons]

We brought in Sean Fantasy for Film Festival. Did you have any thoughts on those five?

[Sean Fennessey]

I've seen all the movies and I love all of them. I think Don Siegel is like. I don't know if you mentioned him as a director that Hansen really likes, but that's clearly kind of a fur hire guy who can work in a lot of different sorts of dramas, but is really good about, like, Guy with a Gun. Guy with a gun who's on a mission, who's got a problem to solve. A lot of his movies are like that. And then the Killing. The Kubrick movie is really interesting because there's a lot, apparently, of Sterling Hayden's character in that movie in the bud White performance that Russell Crowe looked at him.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Cause also Sterling Hayden was physically. Didn't Elroy say this? That he wanted that Sterling Hayden was his choice to play budweight.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, interesting.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, in the book he's physically a big actor.

[Sean Fennessey]

In the book he's like the Incredible Hulk.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's the biggest guy in la. The book.

[Bill Simmons]

I Crow looks pretty jacked in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But there's a couple of shots where you're like he's like a little bit taller than Danny DeVito. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How tall do we think Crow is?

[Chris Ryan]

He's listed at 6. I looked it up.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like a major league baseball

[Chris Ryan]

down a couple inches in the. In the.

[Bill Simmons]

The major league baseball heights thing has been my favorite sub pot. It's funny, it's like lost three inches.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did he?

[Bill Simmons]

He went from six one to five ten.

[Sean Fennessey]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Cuz they're measuring all these dudes for the strike zone. A lot of height lying going on.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, so everybody gets this amazing story.

[Bill Simmons]

I could let Billy Gill come on and do the whole breakdown of this. Yeah, that's been a lot of height lying. We're going to take a quick break and then I want to talk about the actors. This episode is brought to you by Fire tv. You've been there, settling in for a relaxing evening of tv. You waste half the night scrolling through options. Can't really find anything to watch. Well, enter Fire tv. It's entertainment with zero effort required. Fire TV serves up personalized recommendations from across all your apps, all in one place. It's your helper. Not sure what to watch next. Just tell Alexa what you're in the mood for. She'll pull up the perfect recommendation. Problem solved. Stop the scroll. Start the show. Find what you're looking for. With Fire tv. Subscription may be required. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. The actors Russell Crowe. So I know this movie got nine nominations but I look at it as like the starter kit for Proof of Life. That's why this movie walked. So Proof of Life could run. Yeah, I don't know. Was that part of Sierra Month for you?

[Chris Ryan]

Actually went into the. Into the math. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Stuff of legends. Yeah, stuff. But you can see it. You can see where the next 10 years are going. Like, he's just a movie star in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Caruso could have done Ellie Con Confidential.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had that in. Can I do that now?

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Sean Fennessey]

He would have been good.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I. I had. Had this in my recasting Coach. What about him? In the DeVito spot.

[Chris Ryan]

No, not Sid.

[Andy Greenwald]

Listen.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, I think Vincennes. I think he would have been really good. Vincenzo Spacey, I think. I mean, he's. He's a little younger. A little younger. But, I mean, he could do. Actually. But he's not CR.

[Bill Simmons]

Is alive right now because I'm trying

[Chris Ryan]

to think of, like, what I could. Caruso at that time. Is this pre or post nypd?

[Bill Simmons]

This is post nypd.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pre.

[Sean Fennessey]

Post J. Pre.

[Bill Simmons]

Csi. Pre Proof Life available.

[Chris Ryan]

Jack would have been a good one. It kind of fits the book a little bit more. I mean, Jack's a little, like, washed in the book and in the movie, it's like, boy, he could. He's basically like the double for the guy.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's like D. Martin.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But Crow. Perfect Guy Pierce. We mentioned the Bale thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think that's a great comparison.

[Bill Simmons]

They're making this movie in 07. It's clearly. Bale is Exley 2005 range.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Because you got to admit. You got to admit intelligence for sure. And that kind of posture. Right. That stiff posture. But then there's like. He's got some stuff going on. You know, he doesn't grab Lynn Bracken lightly. He, like. He grabs her.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, also, there's the scene that I really caught on rewatch is when the cameras show up outside the Night Owl, and Dudley, like, puts his hat on and actually kind of flexes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he does.

[Andy Greenwald]

What did Wesley call? Sicario. He does the gym flex. The gym selfie. The gym selfie of a performance in that moment.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Spacey, who from 95 to 99 rips off Usual Suspect 7 outbreak, time to kill Louisiana. Confidential, American Beauty and wins two Oscars.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's really good in this movie. And now it's like Kevin Spacey problematic to say the least.

[Chris Ryan]

I think even to Guy Pierce especially.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. He's just a really good actor.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think this is his best performance.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm with you. I thought that. Can't be on an island with that.

[Bill Simmons]

Not nominated.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think he's been more iconic, obviously, as villains in movies and more memorable in certain movies, but given that he's on screen for 25 minutes. And is doing a lot of acting with his face and not with his words.

[Chris Ryan]

That's some of my favorite lines and line readings in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Also a classic Spacey performance where it's like, is this guy straight or gay? Is this guy a good guy or a bad guy? Is this guy funny or not funny?

[Chris Ryan]

The layers to the scene with Matt Reynolds where he's like, yeah, show business.

[Bill Simmons]

Even, like, when he's talking to Exley, it's like, is he flirting with this guy or is just talking to him? Like there's. It's always. He's like that last level of actor where he's playing it, where you're trying to figure out what he's up to in the scenes. And that was with House of Cards. He's basically playing this guy as an older House of Cards, as a senator.

[Andy Greenwald]

And everything about the role is performance. Which increasingly, as he got more rewarded for his performances, that became what he did is he was doing shtick here most of the time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I don't feel like this was schtick at all.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's a moment that I. One of my favorite moments in the movie, this really small moment, is after they've told the boxer that they're gonna help his brother get freed. And they go back to the car and the guy's like, you're come see me, right? We're gonna talk about it. And Spacey just has a cigarette in his mouth. And he goes, keep it up, keep it up. And it's like, it's such a perfectly choreographed bit that fits the character. Cause the character is always looking for the moment to camera. Because that's what he admires most.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a really great Elroy quote about Spacey that I think kind of sums up both his performance and also kind of how we understand him as a public person. And even some of the thorniness, without actually coming out and saying anything specific, where he says, spacey is so deft, he is so controlled, is so subtle. Is so good at suggesting a character's inner life with a minimal of outward action. He glides. There's something amorphous about the guy. I met him a couple of times. I don't have any kind of rapport with him. You know, I like him well enough. He's not a bad guy. But there's a mask that's up when you meet him personally. And I imagine that this helps him when he immerses himself. It's a deep immersion performance. Some of the best self loathing I've ever seen on screen.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Like, I still think that will. This will come up in other parts of the pod, but like the. Him coming across Matt's body and like the wordless kind of like funeral he has for Matt, but like, kind of also himself as he, like slides down is like, that's really, really good shit. You know, like, that's.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the problem with his career, which was. I mean, that run was incredible. He could never, like, remember he made that terrible movie Pay it Forward.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, yeah, Tough one.

[Bill Simmons]

He could never just be a normal person. He couldn't be like, Kevin Spacey is now a high school teacher with a heart of gold.

[Andy Greenwald]

It.

[Bill Simmons]

He always had to play these mysterious guys. And I gotta be honest, I think he's like a one on one. I don't think he exists anymore. This was a specific type of actor who kind of. You kind of knew what the perfect Kevin Spacey role was. And I don't know who's filled that void since. I don't think we've found the person.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think that kind of character forward. Mainstream American drama just doesn't really happen that much anymore. He did actually pivot to television because he was kind of an actor who would really thrive in that space. But you know, when you go back and look at the movies and the parts that he took on, it's not unreasonable to be like, there's kind of a red arrow pointing at the unseemliness of this person. And almost the industry telling you by how they're casting him, like, what they think of him. That is really fascinating.

[Andy Greenwald]

And what's so weird is I remember at the time when he was at his apex, he was always talking about how Jack Lemmon was his hero.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes, that's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, the Jack Lemmon.

[Andy Greenwald]

And the thing about Jack Lemmon was that everyone loved Jack Lemmon. He played in Everyman, whether it's the Apartment or Grumpy Old Man. You're like, I like that guy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So warm.

[Chris Ryan]

He's.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Kevin Spacey in the Odd Couple. You would have been like, is he gonna kill us?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, it's absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the closest he gets to, like, Lemon. Lemon is like, in a way, like the Margin Call performance where he's kind of more like Shelly and Glengarry and doing that kind of hang on, like.

[Andy Greenwald]

But which he can do is.

[Chris Ryan]

Is kind of an outlier. He's right. Like, there's. There's a lot of Kevin Spacey performances. You'd be like. So you picked him to be the guy in Seven. Interesting.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's true.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the kind of guy who'll cut his fingerprints off. Interesting.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's probably worth restating for the younger audience is that he was the star. He was the top billed star of this movie. And that speaking of professionalism, with Curtis Hansen, what he could do and what he couldn't do, he was like, my deal breaker is I want unknowns. And we'll get to that in terms of these other cops so they don't have a predisposition about them for Dudley. I want someone that everyone thinks is the farmer in Babe so that everyone will like him. So we'll do that misdirect and then we'll have a movie star play Jack Vincennes. And he got Kevin Spacey.

[Sean Fennessey]

He said he tried to get him to make it before he won for Usual Suspects and that it was winning the Oscar as. I think one of the big reasons why this movie got to go because it wasn't going to go just with Pierce and Crowe.

[Bill Simmons]

It was just a certain type of part and he was the best at it. But if you put him in like the ref as like the husband, it's just not going to work. Kim Basinger. There's two separate conversations here. Conversation number one, CR the Kathryn Tramell. Would you throw your life away for this obvious Stay Away award? Pretty solid. Pretty solid choice.

[Chris Ryan]

She's operating at a high level.

[Bill Simmons]

But the Oscar, well, that's the second conversation. She wins supporting actress. And if you were saying, hey, if you knew nothing, who won the Oscar would have been like a kind of a fourth round pick from this movie. Like from the ninth pick. If we did a draft from this cast. From this cast. Cinematography, director, adaption, you pick any category.

[Chris Ryan]

I would do Julianne Moore. I would. I personally would put Bridget Fonda and Jackie Brown also.

[Andy Greenwald]

This was the year you were whipping votes for Gloria Stewart.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

I heard she was quite difficult to work.

[Bill Simmons]

I deep dive that Oscars year before we do Craig, did you. Were you surprised she won the Oscar for this?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Shocked. I mean, I would have given her a Razzie. I think she's probably the only character in the movie where I'm like, this takes me out of it a little bit.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it is like among the more bizarre wins in recent Oscar history. I don't think she's bad.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I think Oscar screws up the perception of the performance.

[Sean Fennessey]

If she didn't win the Oscar, you'd be like, she looks enough like Veronica Lake that this is interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

She's the main character as the natural and the lady that seduces Redford. It's no different.

[Sean Fennessey]

But the Oscar is just like she has four scenes.

[Andy Greenwald]

They're fine.

[Chris Ryan]

She's in the same apartment, wearing the same gown, having the same conversation for

[Andy Greenwald]

the lovely house in Hancock park, which I think we need to recognize we

[Bill Simmons]

are going to play stock.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I was confident that was coming up. But I think that like, Hanson is really good with actors and is very fond of actors and he gives her opportunities to show more variety than she had been given in a lot of other parts and certainly even what this part would suggest. Like there's the moment when they're in the theater watching Roman Holiday and Bud whispers something to her and she's a little playful and throws popcorn at him. So he's giving her a chance to succeed. But my question, Sean, as the local Oscar expert. I feel like Oscars like to do this thing where it's like we're rooting for this person who got a chance to show us something and it's time to reward them as the next phase of their career begins. Except there wasn't really a next phase for her. Well, is there precedent for that?

[Sean Fennessey]

Usually it's when someone has made like 10 or 15 all time beloved classics or they've been a part of something really special about movie history. And Kim Basinger is a beautiful star and a good actor. But like, what are her five best performances? What are the unforgettable moments in Kim Basinger movie history? You know, she's Vicki Vale. You know, she was a Bond girl.

[Bill Simmons]

She's gonna say Nine and a half weeks.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's in Nine and a half Weeks, you know, which is like a good erotic thriller movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Tense movie. Craig, you should watch that with Liz tonight. Nine and a half Weeks, it's rom com.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think you're right that it almost seemed to be like, okay, well, we can't say wait till to see what you do next. But usually when they give someone like this an award, it's someone like Amy Madigan, right, who's like in their 60s or 70s and they came with, God,

[Bill Simmons]

we gotta go through this. I deep dove this. So she beats Joan Cusack in n out Wild nomination.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good performance.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think she's good in that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

She's very good.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's very. She plays the wife of a man who is gay who like isn't coming out but is coming out. And it's like, did you star them? Is that Kevin Klein? Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

How's that movie aged.

[Sean Fennessey]

I haven't seen it a long time. It did shoot in Northport, which is the town next to me. And when it was shooting it was like, Frank Oz and Kevin Kline are making a movie next door. And it seemed like a big deal.

[Andy Greenwald]

You don't think Tom Selleck was the big name at that moment?

[Sean Fennessey]

That was great casting.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought we'll do the rewatchables for Ag Month.

[Bill Simmons]

Minnie Driver and Good Will Hunting. Yeah, I don't think she should have won, but I think she's good in that movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes, I think she's excellent and I love her.

[Bill Simmons]

Julianne Moore and Boogie Nights.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean this is.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's your.

[Bill Simmons]

What the fuck are we doing?

[Sean Fennessey]

So fucked up.

[Andy Greenwald]

What are we doing?

[Sean Fennessey]

So fucked up.

[Bill Simmons]

Like we should just put a thousand people in a movie theater, show Boogie Nights, Nla Confidential and be like, guess who won supporting actor. It's just insane.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a good way of putting it.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's a great idea.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that should we do like

[Sean Fennessey]

the jubilee debate style thing with Gen Z kids but do it for Oscars history?

[Bill Simmons]

This one isn't a debate like Julianne Moore. Her job is 30 times harder in that movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think that movie had a little bit of a stigma. It's porn 90s. It was on the edge. It was. Had a lot of like acclaim for how. But it was a young director and

[Sean Fennessey]

they were sort of. Lynn Bracken is also a prostitute. It's not as though it's like.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but is there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can you look at this, Sean and like see the gamesmanship involved? Because voters. Do you think Gloria Stewart came in second?

[Bill Simmons]

Because Gloria Stewart was the fifth one from Titanic. The old lady, she's still talking about Jack, who she spent a weekend with. Meanwhile she has this whole fucking family.

[Chris Ryan]

She spent 80 seconds of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd be so mad if my wife, Van and I talked about this on our real show.

[Andy Greenwald]

She dies and she remembers.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm so mad. That guy's like, we lived together for 60 years, 24 hours with him.

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't think that's why Gloria Stewart was punished and humiliated at the Academy Awards when they gave her Kim Basinger this Oscar.

[Andy Greenwald]

But do you think that like the thinking person's voter in this case voted for Kim Basinger because they knew LA Confidential wasn't going.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'll tell you what I think happened. Yeah. I watched a bunch of the making of documentaries that are on the Blu ray for this movie and in every single.

[Andy Greenwald]

Physical media. Obviously.

[Sean Fennessey]

Physical media. Yes. It's a Blu Ray. Every single interview, when they are asked about Kim Basinger, just like, she's just like the best person. She's just really cool. And Danny DeVito is like, you know, she just really cares about the work and she's like a really nice person. And there's none of this weird, like, talking around Kevin Spacey being a maniac stuff going on in the interview.

[Chris Ryan]

Kevin, what he did after work.

[Bill Simmons]

I say, do you think Kevin got a. Kevin's Kevin?

[Sean Fennessey]

But when you go back and look at the year, she won bafta, she won sag, she won the Globe, she won everything. She dominated the season. So really weird people just like her.

[Chris Ryan]

There should have been Twitter back then because I think they would have been like, let's really interrogate this. Are we really going to do this?

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down a couple more Bridget Fonda and Jackie Brown. Heather Graham and Boogie Nights.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, why not?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Sigourney Weaver and Ice Storm.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, that's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Parker posing. Waiting for Guffman.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Although the Oscars does do comedies, but I think you could make a case for all of those to at least be dominated. Really strange year. This is a new game I'm playing with IMDBs. When IMDb suggests the four movies, you know the person from. What do you think IMDb says known for. For James Cromwell.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is great. Babe.

[Chris Ryan]

Pig in the City, Eraser.

[Bill Simmons]

You still haven't named one?

[Andy Greenwald]

Not one. Really?

[Sean Fennessey]

Does it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Does TV count? Does it do TV in there?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's four movies. Oh, this is four.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is it. Wow. This is my new favorite game.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a great game.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean's gonna steal this.

[Sean Fennessey]

I might. There's a couple of animated movies that he did voice performances for. Are there any animated performances?

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Louisiana. Confidential is one. Star Trek, First Contact, LA Confidential, iRobot.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, iRobot.

[Bill Simmons]

The Green Mile and the Longest Yard. IMDb game.

[Chris Ryan]

The Longest Yard remake.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, the Warden. Yeah. And the Rebate.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on, IMDb. We gotta do. Give us a little. How is Babe not in there?

[Andy Greenwald]

That's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Babe was in. Goldman thought that was the best movie of 1993 or whatever year.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's not in the top four.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you want to talk Cromwell for a second?

[Bill Simmons]

Incredible run by him.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought succession was the exclamation point. It was a multiple exclamation point.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm seeing Big Hero sixes number two.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe that's personal Algorithm.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that's algorithm.

[Bill Simmons]

That's how many I have that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, you're looking at Google. Sorry, I thought you were saying letterbox.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I was. Oh, no, I was doing IMDb.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, IMDb. Okay, got it.

[Chris Ryan]

Cromwell. I assume when you watch this, you're probably like, when did you sort of feel like Dudley was not on the straight and narrow when you're watching LA Comics?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember how I felt when I saw it in the theater.

[Chris Ryan]

Satan, across these four books, did you accept it?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Did you know he was the bad guy?

[Craig Horlbeck]

And I kind of didn't really until they basically told me.

[Sean Fennessey]

It was the only downside of reading the book beforehand. I thought, yeah, it was because the movie handles it so well.

[Bill Simmons]

But the casting of him was so great. Cause this is like three, three and a half years after Babe. And in general, he was always like, oh, I like that guy. It was like when they flipped Ronny Cox in the late 80s with RoboCop. Like, oh, Ronny Cox.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's like, nope, I like flipping them. That's what they've done.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, that's good.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a heel turn.

[Andy Greenwald]

I can remember seeing this in the theater at age 20 and being shocked having not read the books. I absolutely. A memorable rug out from under me most.

[Sean Fennessey]

The way that they film Jack's death is really, really good. Like, it's really, really.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's really great in this.

[Andy Greenwald]

What do you think with the New Strike Zone, how would Cromwell fare? I mean, he's. He's six, seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Tall guy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Six, eight.

[Chris Ryan]

Is he really that tall?

[Bill Simmons]

It was the biggest flaw of succession that him and Brian Cox were brothers.

[Andy Greenwald]

They couldn't even be in the same frame Foot and Brian Cox's to reach

[Bill Simmons]

so nine Oscar nominations. It won for adapted and it won for supporting actress. You know, the best actor in a supporting role. That year. Robin Williams won for Good Will Hunting. Robert Forster for Jackie Brown.

[Sean Fennessey]

No slander, please.

[Bill Simmons]

Fucking Anthony Hopkins and Amistad. Greg Kinnear and as Good As It Gets is the Week One.

[Sean Fennessey]

Terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like. That tire's just wobbling in the back. And then our guy. Burt Reynolds of Boogie Nights. No, John C. Reilly. I think Spacey. It's kind of insane. He wasn't nominated. I think the only reason he wasn't nominated was because he won.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think so too.

[Bill Simmons]

They were like, fuck him.

[Sean Fennessey]

And two years later, he wins again for American Beauty.

[Bill Simmons]

Best actor. We've talked about this year before. It's a weird one where you have Peter Fonda's in there and Dustin Hoffman and Wag the dog.

[Andy Greenwald]

Anyone ever seen Wheelie's Gold? I have.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Have you seen that?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is it. Do you prefer Yuli's Gold or Lorenzo's Oil? When it comes to like ingredients you can get at Erewhan.

[Chris Ryan]

Such a deep premier bag of Lorenzo's Oil.

[Sean Fennessey]

They're very different films. Sure. Lorenzo's Oil is very traumatizing film about a family. A couple trying to find a cure for their child's illness. That is not directed by chilling. Not a good thing. That movie is really a sad film. Yuli's Gold is about a beekeeper who's a kindly old man who's trying to make a connection with his family.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy likes to get a turmeric latte at Erewhon with Lorenzo's Oil.

[Andy Greenwald]

I do just like a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what he asked for.

[Andy Greenwald]

Some people get a medium top latte. Not me.

[Chris Ryan]

I think they're could have named that movie a little bit better. Lorenzo's Oil sound like it's like a landman. You know, like sound like

[Andy Greenwald]

it's the 80s. We got to start using Lorenzo's Oil

[Bill Simmons]

renamed Fleur de Lenzo is talking about. So if you had say Crow for best actor. Guy Pierce for supporting or Spacy for supporting and you could only give one nom.

[Sean Fennessey]

It feels like the rare actor actor for Pierce and crowd. Like two best actors.

[Bill Simmons]

Two best actors. Interesting.

[Sean Fennessey]

That knows only happened a couple times. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So who is. Who would you go with between Crowe and Pierce?

[Sean Fennessey]

Pierce probably Pierce too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wait, you'd give Pierce the Oscar nomination over Russell Crowe for this movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's the right call.

[Chris Ryan]

I also think Russell Crowe was gonna.

[Bill Simmons]

Could have done both. Could have been like when we have two guards.

[Chris Ryan]

Good as bud. But I think it shows a little bit more that he is not American. Like I. I think his accent and his manner sometimes comes across as a little like I'm still on the set of Virtuosity. I think Pierce is incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

138 minutes. Craig plus 38.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's just a lot of food on the plate. I don't think you could have. You couldn't make the same movie for an hour and 40 minutes. That's just like not possible. But this did feel a little long to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I did have a horrifying thought that you could have easily done this as a six episode drama. There's like specific cuts you would need

[Chris Ryan]

to have if you were going to please anybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Just thinking like there is like natural like cliffhangers.

[Chris Ryan]

They've even tried making this is a TV show.

[Sean Fennessey]

Nobody has just shut the fuck up about making this. I'm usually never

[Chris Ryan]

anybody to do Elroy. Unless you've got this devil. So, like do El.

[Sean Fennessey]

We have the evidence. They tried to make the TV show twice.

[Andy Greenwald]

Failed both times. Perhaps. What's a better way to do it to express this

[Sean Fennessey]

Confidential.

[Andy Greenwald]

Look what we used to be able to do. Like, there are. What this movie does with like, ellipses with like, just assuming you're gonna get there. Of condensing time of showing you the five most interesting moments in this character's journey is remarkable. And I went into the. I was reading the shooting script to see if there were like, you know, novelistic disquisitions about whatever. Hundred percent. No, no. The things that got cut were like the two things that I have in my nitpicks of what I wish were in the movie. Like, it started with the more stuff about the freeway. Like it was just more context. Table setting stuff. Or you came into a scene a little bit before. Like, I think it starts with Johnny Stompanato and Bud and Stenslin.

[Bill Simmons]

Johnny stomps.

[Andy Greenwald]

So there's more of that. And you. And you. The payoff in the movie where he's like, I don't need your 20 bucks. I'm not a rat anymore. The first scene is him accepting 20 bucks from Bud and Sendlin to be a rat. I think you don't need it.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think if you told me that the same way that this is a movie made by really, really gifted craftspeople and, like, veteran filmmakers, if it was like, okay, Matthew Weiner or Vince Gilligan are taking on it the works of James Elroy, I'm vetoing it. That would be. I'm at least more open to that. But if it's just like coming to CBS Sunday nights, Louisiana Confidential.

[Bill Simmons]

What if I have the movie? No, if the movie's at a certain level, I don't think you can do it. I think it's off limits. It's like they made a fucking Boogie Nights team.

[Chris Ryan]

But obviously it is very. People are very tempted. Like, Dahlia got made. They've wanted to make White. White Jazz. I think Big Nowhere would be incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Wouldn't the move be to just do.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a.

[Bill Simmons]

Each season is a different Elroy novel. And you just basically do that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, You Castle Rock, but Elroy, it

[Sean Fennessey]

would be cool because of the way that all of the characters intersect, you know, famously or infamously. Dudley survives Louisiana Confidential. And like Chris said, he kind of hovers over the trilogy, the quartet of books. And so if you had like one amazing. If you had like John Malkovich as Dudley Smith across four seasons of TV and it's 12 episodes each and they're each an adaptation of the novels and all the novels are long, that would be interesting. But it just has to be like the most talented adapter of that kind of work in the world. Sure. And maybe it's Andy King.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the other problem would be they'd be shooting it in Vancouver because we have a terrible mayor and a terrible governor and we can't shoot shit in here because the whole film industry has gone to shit. We're gonna take a break and come this episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices guaranteed, mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with with EarthGrow mulch. Five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices. Now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com Pricematch for details.

[Sean Fennessey]

Get in the game with the college branded Venmo debit card. Ref your team with every tap and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance, just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up

[Bill Simmons]

for the Venmo debit [e-mail] collegecard the

[Sean Fennessey]

Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo stash

[Chris Ryan]

terms and exclusions [e-mail] terms max $100

[Andy Greenwald]

cash back per month.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so $35 million budget made 1.26.2 million. Louisiana Confidential. Roger Ebert, 4 stars. LA Confidential is seductive and beautiful, cynical and twisted, and one of the best films of the year.

[Chris Ryan]

No shit, Raj.

[Bill Simmons]

Raj has been on fire in 2026.

[Chris Ryan]

So, like, you could have blindfolded me and I would have said pretty much that that would be his review.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did your dad review this?

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

Probably.

[Bill Simmons]

I had too many rewatchable scenes. I'll go through. I'll go fast. Crow meets Basinger the first time Exley shows up at the Night Owl coffee shop. After all the murders and then they take the picture after. He's like, hold on, let me take my glasses off for this great shot. Crow goes to Basinger's house. She came on a bus with dreams to Hollywood. And this is how it turned out. Thanks to Pierce, we still get to act a little.

[Andy Greenwald]

To be fair, she took a bus from Echo park to Hollywood. Her mother lives.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I do. Like, you're the first person in five years who didn't tell me I look like Veronica Lake.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, you look better.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Good move by good by our guy. But the interrogation scene. Can we talk about this quick?

[Andy Greenwald]

Why quick?

[Bill Simmons]

This scene's a fucking banger.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a masterpiece of film.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's probably my favorite. I think it's my favorite.

[Andy Greenwald]

And just to be clear, where are we putting the parentheticals? Interrogation into Bud going to solve the real crime.

[Chris Ryan]

You can have that, but it's just actually moving from room to room. Bud with the chair, Dudley and Jack, the sort of deep focus shots, it's just. Just all the reflective stuff that they're doing. It's so awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Just quickly, Bud kills the rapist, almost fights with Exley. Exley kills three guys, becomes Shotgun Eddie. We have a couple good action scenes. The Rolo Tomasi story, the two Johnny Stompanato scenes, which I'm just lumping together because we get. What do I get if I give you your balls back, you whop cocksucker? To hear the word wap again. I'm half Italian. I could joke about it. And then the. She is Lana Turner. And we get to see the Formosa Cafe. Then we get Lynn Bracken seduces Exley, and then Smith shoots Hollywood Jack. And then the Rolo reveal, all in a row. Sierra, I have a question. The shocking Kevin Spacey death scene after Cromwell goes heel. The Rolo Tomasi, the way he says it, and then dies. Is that eligible for the Jesse Eisberg? That's good. You should be proud of that right there. Don't worry if you don't make it any further. A word for bus liners.

[Chris Ryan]

I said that because I have. That was going to be my flex, but it was a different spacey look.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, we'll save it. Okay. Do you like that new category?

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm excited. There are a lot of. I got to say, it's been a minute. There are a lot of new categories. There's a category creep a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

No comment.

[Bill Simmons]

I like to have a lot of choices. It's like a big diner.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You want a Corned beef sandwich, Cheesecake Factory menu.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you're.

[Sean Fennessey]

But, like, how often, when you go to a diner, are you changing up the order? Because, like, the thing about a diner is special. You find what you like and you stick by it. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I like trying to challenge myself to, like, I think the thing. That's.

[Sean Fennessey]

How often will you get sushi at a diner?

[Andy Greenwald]

It's, like, special, but you get it

[Chris Ryan]

at huge today, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Sometimes.

[Chris Ryan]

Sometimes, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. You got them.

[Bill Simmons]

Let me do the specials. Fine.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Bill should start each pod by reading the specials, which is the new categories for the.

[Bill Simmons]

Good idea.

[Sean Fennessey]

I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a cream of broccoli.

[Sean Fennessey]

Can I just add one or two?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I'm not done yet.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, you're sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Bud finds the photos. Danny DeVito's trunk.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Convenient.

[Bill Simmons]

He thought it was of him. No, it's not of you. It's of Exley.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's like, when I see social clips of the watch, and I'm like, no, Chris, Chris, no.

[Andy Greenwald]

Chasing it down on the Pasadena commute.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Bud versus Exley, where it seems like Bud's gonna kill him. And then they decide to work together. Bud tortures the DA for answers, which includes the combo toilet dunk legs dangle outside the window. We don't get that often. Get one, but not both. The big shootout at the end.

[Chris Ryan]

Victory Motel.

[Bill Simmons]

CRO is talks about situational awareness with action scenes, tight spaces where the camera can follow where everybody is. It's a good one for that.

[Chris Ryan]

It's really good. Yeah. And it's. It almost feels a little bit premature. Like, when you're watching the movie, you're

[Bill Simmons]

like, oh, we're doing this now.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the big shootout.

[Bill Simmons]

We're done.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Cause in the book, I feel like you're like. It's just like, you know, and the Victory Motel shootout isn't quite the same in the book and stuff like that. There's like, a train and shit. But yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Also Crow. Some of his gun work in this movie leads to proof of life three years later.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of people don't make that point.

[Chris Ryan]

I was just having a conversation about this the other day about. With Meg Ryan, you know, since the emergence of wearing the tactical bulletproof vest, I think we've seen a different kind of, like, gun acting going on. And it's also, like, especially since John Wick. But between this and To Live and Die in la, I kind of miss guys running around with a revolver shaking everywhere. You know, like, where it's like, pankow jumping over something and being like, hey,

[Bill Simmons]

I forgot to tell you. I was watching the first eight episodes of Miami Vice again because they're on Tubi. Pankow is in Glades.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Couldn't. There was a Pankow. Like a Pankow rejuvenation.

[Chris Ryan]

I was gonna text you about this, but I was like, I don't. I don't want to bother him about Pankow.

[Bill Simmons]

You can never bother me with my advice.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's two guys and one girl. And then the two guys realize they love each other at the same time. And the girl's like, hey, but we're the one girl.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, two B's flexing it for us.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Whole.

[Bill Simmons]

Whole series is there.

[Andy Greenwald]

We talking about the Panko Sons.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Cousin Ira.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Panko had a tough pod run to live and die in la.

[Chris Ryan]

You gave him a tough time. I think I liked him.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was kind of with Bill Fence.

[Bill Simmons]

He didn't have the balls to jump on the Pankow recasting bandwagon, but was hinting you were more on my side than.

[Chris Ryan]

You get a note in your mailbox from Billy Peterson about. He's like, hey, love your work.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's just. All he does is just roll in piles of money.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's never heard of podcasts. He's a swimming pool, but just with $20 bills in it. He just dies.

[Andy Greenwald]

His uncle Scrooges it all day.

[Bill Simmons]

He just swims around and watches the bills fire.

[Chris Ryan]

So what's your.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you. What scenes did you have that I didn't mention?

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, we mentioned it, but when Exley and Bud and Vincennes go into the DA's office or the captain's office, and they're being kind of confronted with, will you rat the way that those three scenes are cut. Another amazing spacey performance when he is told that he's gonna have the show taken away from him. Just on his face is amazing. And then putting Ed behind the mirror in a. When Jack is being interrogated. I think that whole section is so smart and kind of like that's when the movie coalesces and you're like, oh, it's these three guys. Like, this is really what this movie is about, is these three cops.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you have? For most rewatchable, you named them all,

[Andy Greenwald]

but it's the interrogation scene for me, the interrogation, it jumps up such a level. And to see. It's always fun when the audience gets put in the same position as some of the characters. When Jack says, are you sure college boy is up to this. And he's like, I think you'll be surprised with the. The what the boy is capable of. And we all lean in being like, oh, I guess we're about to be surprised. And then I didn't. Has there been other precedent of the manipulation of the live mic in an interrogation scene?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, he's conducting it. He's like, dudamil in there. He's a God.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's like. He's making sure that the other guys can hear certain things that the other. The other.

[Andy Greenwald]

And really good Foley on the snap of the switch. Really everything I had that.

[Bill Simmons]

In what stage? The best is when college boy was an insult.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

In, like, the 40s, 50s, 60s. Like, oh, look at college boy. We just don't have.

[Chris Ryan]

We've lost.

[Bill Simmons]

Lost college boy. I don't know what it is now. Like, master's boy doesn't have the same range.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Just the era where you would make fun of somebody for pursuing higher education is somehow. Somehow.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, that was. For a minute, people were calling guys libs. That was like, sort of, hey, they're gonna let the lib.

[Andy Greenwald]

So that's the most lib thing I've ever heard. That's over with.

[Bill Simmons]

Over lib.

[Andy Greenwald]

They're like, I was an arrowhead. No one was calling me a lib.

[Chris Ryan]

Libs are back, man.

[Bill Simmons]

So we all have the. We all have the interrogation.

[Chris Ryan]

I have the interrogation.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have one other small one, which is Bud visiting Pierce Patchett for the first time. I love that scene. We have not talked about Pierce Patchett. And just like, yeah, Strathairon.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Strathairon is so good in this movie, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Our guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Dion. Dion, Dave.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay, well, no, I don't want to

[Chris Ryan]

piss on it, but he's so good, and he can do that in any movie. Sneakers, like, whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Like one of my favorite IMDBs, including, he's in the best Miami Vice episode ever. Dire Straits. Brothers in Arms.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, third episode of season two.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just to keep you in the loop.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cut the energy.

[Bill Simmons]

Him and Bruce McCall.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep. McGill. McGill.

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce McGill.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce McCall.

[Chris Ryan]

Bruce McCall.

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce McGill.

[Chris Ryan]

New coach Creighton.

[Bill Simmons]

I was watching Bruce McGill in a really terrible Bruce Willis movie that I like. Can you guess the color of night?

[Chris Ryan]

Castle?

[Bill Simmons]

Nope.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is it Hudson Hawk?

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce McGill? Bruce Willis? Sarah Jessica Parker.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, the striking distance.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is the boat, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Pittsburgh.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pittsburgh Boat cops.

[Bill Simmons]

Disgraced cop. Doing now like, Pittsburgh Coast Guard Pittsburgh.

[Chris Ryan]

What in n out was to Long island people In Pittsburgh were like striking distance.

[Bill Simmons]

Willis was here. Willis was having a promise.

[Sean Fennessey]

I didn't like that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Made it all the way to Philly

[Sean Fennessey]

third actor where it's like all in that one boat. And he's gonna get move around the boat. But he's being spied. Yeah, I saw it.

[Bill Simmons]

They check some boxes. I'll tell you that much. Cops not liking each other.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's disgrace cops Pennsylvania, Come on.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's right in the heart of the Barry Bonds era too, is it not?

[Bill Simmons]

It's like early 90s.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, it's the killer beast. Pretty good. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was on the Mets at this point, I think Salis Philly guy with the most Philly joke of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

When I'm hosting to be classics in

[Sean Fennessey]

seven years will allow it would.

[Chris Ryan]

The only other thing I would shoot out, throw out is like a rewatchable. I have the interrogation scene. You know what's fucking great is the post Exley shootout montage that they do to skip ahead time where it's like Exley gets promoted. Jack returns to Badge of Honor. Bud goes like. Continues to see Lynn. And then you get like, you know, Bud keeps beating up all of the mobsters moving in on Mickey's turf. And the 10 opens.

[Bill Simmons]

Those montages can go the wrong way. That one works.

[Chris Ryan]

It really does.

[Bill Simmons]

But I was thinking it's probably the worst part of the Godfather when it Pacino.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, it's just the newspapers.

[Bill Simmons]

Michael kills McCloskey and Sollozzo and then it's like da, da da. It's like playing this carnival music and they're just showing newspapers.

[Andy Greenwald]

The other risk you run is like driving the bus past something you actually wish you could stop and get out and spend more time in like the Santa Monica Freeway. Well, on the Santa Monica Freeway to Pierce Patchett's gender bending champagne parties.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which really like they. They had a location.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, they brought in the cabaret dancers.

[Bill Simmons]

Might bring those back.

[Chris Ryan]

Those parties at your house just.

[Bill Simmons]

I might do have a Pierce Pierce padget party. Yeah, you should just like guys, no limits tonight.

[Chris Ryan]

Bunch of chicks wearing clutch.

[Bill Simmons]

Some of the girls are cut like modern actresses. We just. Just go for it.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm listening. I'm listening.

[Chris Ryan]

Just a bunch of chicks clutch sweatshirts. I was like, Nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig's already RSVP now, what's the most 1997 thing about this movie? Tough one because it's set in the 50s. But it's gotta be Young Crow. Right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Would you say Kevin Spacey on the poster?

[Andy Greenwald]

Kevin Spacey is A Kevin Spacey on

[Bill Simmons]

the poster species, probably.

[Andy Greenwald]

I had. This is not to piss Sean off, but I had that this is a movie in the first place is the most deeply 1997 thing about it. Because this is a TV show.

[Bill Simmons]

What streamer would this be on exactly?

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't know, man. We're just coming off project Hail Mary. Book adaptations are back. Like, this is. This is the way with movies is adapt these really good novels into movies. This was how it was for, like 40 years in Hollywood.

[Andy Greenwald]

But this was not a popcorn slam dunk beach read seller.

[Bill Simmons]

True, true. Do you guys want to hear my son's review in the kitchen of Project Kilmeri? Did I tell you this?

[Sean Fennessey]

You texted it to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He was like, how was it? And he said, it sucked. It's like, really? It sucked. People like it. He's like, like, no, it was good. It sucked. But it was really good. It kept my interest and I'm glad I sat in the theater. I was like, it sounds like you liked it. He's like, no, I liked it. I was like, we had to work.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think he was intimidated by thinking he was going against conventional rules?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he was trying to zag because I don't know what he was thinking. We're still working on him, as I

[Sean Fennessey]

do, to his credit. There's that thing where the expectations are really high for a movie and you're like, this did not meet the expectations.

[Bill Simmons]

That's where we landed. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

He thought, it's good and I appreciate it.

[Bill Simmons]

But the next thing he said was, it wasn't like 2001. That's his favorite quote.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. I was like, that's true, though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It wasn't going to be 2001, Ben. So we're working. He's only 18. Work in progress. Special category. I threw in the Floyd Gondoli butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. I like scared characters with a puddle of pee underneath them. We get two in this home run every time.

[Chris Ryan]

If someone pisses themself, it means it's a good movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

I didn't think they'd go back to the well, so to speak.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, somebody's scared when they're just the peas running down their leg or there's pee under their seat. It's the last level of fear.

[Andy Greenwald]

Craig, don't put the cameras beneath this table.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's how I felt when you guys asked me if I like proof of life.

[Bill Simmons]

You like proof of life. You just don't know it yet.

[Chris Ryan]

My God. Was Cadillac El dorado's driving around LA in the 1950s. It's pretty cool. I just go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you have for what's age the best?

[Andy Greenwald]

Andy, what's age the best? I thought your Floyd Gondoli would be like a group of men being told to go out and pursue justice without mercy. That is just such a.

[Sean Fennessey]

You do like that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Slam dunk for you.

[Bill Simmons]

That is.

[Chris Ryan]

I do like watching movies.

[Andy Greenwald]

What's age the best? Well, we already said racial profiling is an attempt to project dominance and safety in a community. Going great. I thought audiences willingness to explore twisty morality genre tales. Just not in movie theaters. You had tabloid culture. I feel like LA is still a rough adjustment for some outsiders. You don't usually get pulled into the victory Motel.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Andy Greenwald]

But, you know, emotionally, it can be a tough adjustment.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what working above herbalife was. Grantland.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

It was kind of our Victory motel.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you have.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, well, my Gondoli is when a seemingly kindly old Irishman Is the most evil person in the movie. Which is also. You find that in the town as well. Of course, there's many such examples. And this one has a great one in Dudley. But what's aged the best is there was a really good interview with Hanson where he said, I love characters who only have one scene, but they're the star of that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Sean Fennessey]

And this movie is a great example of that. And there's a handful of actors. When we get into some of the other character categories that we can talk about. But. But that's a really clever idea that I think has been dispensed with a bit over the last 25 years.

[Bill Simmons]

And he was Tarantino bought in with the Watkins.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, but it's like the coroner. The coroner. He's had a whole day before Bud white walked into his office.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. I mean, Stensland is a great example of a character. When he's in the scene. He's the star of that scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one. What do you have? CR for best? Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Pierce Patchett is a proto epstein, Enriching himself, Exerting control from the shadows using blackmail. This is more of like a movie thing, I think for the novel readers. They're a little like, all right. But Dudley telling Exley he'll never be a great cop. Unless he can shoot a criminal in the back in order to get justice. And that's exactly how Exley kills Dudley.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that as well.

[Chris Ryan]

And just like the balls on these guys to do the Dudley to make Dudley like a twist rather than going into it. We all know Dudley is like the dark prince of Los Angeles. And instead it's like holy shit, this guy is taking over from Mickey Cohen.

[Bill Simmons]

I have corrupt LA cops, which you mentioned. I love movies where the police department hates one of their own cops.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Always works.

[Sean Fennessey]

Shunning him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And there's like they're in groups and he's coming around the corner and they're just kind of stink.

[Sean Fennessey]

Eyeing Serpico.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, it's. That always works.

[Chris Ryan]

I was kind of like there's. I don't ever want to use Sora. The AI video thing.

[Bill Simmons]

But.

[Chris Ryan]

But I kind of want to put Inspector Todd in LA Confidential. Is that that fucking Exley out there?

[Bill Simmons]

Just put him in every cop movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Increase racial harmony within the lapd. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Talking about getting plastic surgery is having you cut. We just need to bring it back.

[Andy Greenwald]

That just has to come back.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you're gonna have me cut to look like Nick Race.

[Sean Fennessey]

Where's Chris been? Why does Chris have so many chiefs opinions?

[Chris Ryan]

I have a QB tier.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

DeVito. I mean I know it's the 50s so you can get away with it. You couldn't know. But when he. He rips off the back to back. Did you know the DA is a swish. And then he does the Reynolds as an ac doocy. Two. Two phrases nobody said in 50 years. Yeah, just. I thought it was.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a lot of colorful Elroy isms in the book too that are. You don't hear too often.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Russell Crowe said that Elroy told him Bud White doesn't drink. So Crow didn't drink during the entire shoot and described it as the most painful period of his life. Not ironically. Yeah, probably why he looks great by the end of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean he legendarily builds his own bar at set. Like he has like a pub set up or. He did.

[Bill Simmons]

Who did? So the. The best all time drunk actors. Quentin Jaws is number one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Shaw.

[Bill Simmons]

He died when he was like 34.

[Sean Fennessey]

Richard Harris and. And Oliver.

[Andy Greenwald]

Richard Harris.

[Bill Simmons]

Oliver Reed was another. He died during Gladiator.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sterling Hayden Sterling.

[Andy Greenwald]

Goodbye. Didn't even look at the script.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. Famously huge drunk Peter o' Toole and Lion in winter. Yeah. I mean throughout his life. Peter Raylen.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert Mitchum. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Incredible Mitchum story. I mean Mitchum wouldn't do Saturday Night Live unless they gave him a case of Jose Cuervo gold that he wouldn't

[Bill Simmons]

go on that, Silver. I'm not doing great. Nick Nolte was a famous one.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a good one. I mean, Colin Farrell, you know, our beloved Colin Farrell, for a time, you know, he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy, could this be a new ringer podcast for you where each episode is just the history of a drunk actor?

[Andy Greenwald]

Sure, yeah. We do. We do the full arc of the character. I don't know how much time we

[Bill Simmons]

spent talking about Robert Shaw. Najaws spent like 20 minutes. He was daring Dreyfus to climb up on top of the boat, shaming him. And Dreyfus was going to do it. Spielberg had to step in because he was going to die.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you ask Spielberg back that?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, we talked about it at length. It was roughly 50 minutes of our conversation, which is about Robert Shaw being shit faced during the making of Jaws.

[Bill Simmons]

What would it be now, Craig? Just somebody who took too many gummies.

[Sean Fennessey]

Who?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Overdosing on CBD during a pod.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, and just soft again. We knew we used to know how to make things in this country. We used to be able to really be belligerently.

[Sean Fennessey]

We know how to cut women so that they could work in brothels modeled on movie stars.

[Andy Greenwald]

Now, to be fair, Kim Basinger has not been cut. We should be cleared.

[Bill Simmons]

Her haircut, dyed her hair a tiny bit.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pride of Bisbee, Arizona.

[Bill Simmons]

Ciara, what do you have for great shot, Gordo?

[Chris Ryan]

All this stuff. In the interrogation scene before Exley goes in, there's like a great one of Jack in the front of the frame. Dudley amid Exley is reflected off the glass. And you can see into the interrogation booth to see the kid waiting for them. And it's just like these guys are spinach.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny, I was watching the movie thinking that was like minus 250 on FanDuel, that that was going to be Segar's.

[Chris Ryan]

Gordo, did you have a different one?

[Bill Simmons]

You love reflection shots.

[Chris Ryan]

I do.

[Bill Simmons]

You're a big reflection guy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Multiple split diopter shots in the movie. Like three, I think.

[Andy Greenwald]

Name them.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, one in particular. When Exley and Bud burst into the DA's office, they show Rifkin in the background and Bud in the foreground. And like it's just. It jumps out at you. I think also just the one of the very last shots of the movie is Exley holding up the badge in the shadows of the cop cars arriving. Which is just a beautiful image.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the cop cars coming over the hill.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's really good. There's one other one too, which is like The When Exley and Bud White are about to show down, like have a showdown in the street, and it's one of the only zooms in the movie and zooms in on the two of them and captures them in the frame head to head with each other.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is the thing I wanted to say. It is such an un showy movie in terms of camera work and direction. It is always serving the story. And then when I went through it to consider this category, that's what jumped out. The very few times that they choose to move the camera, you pay attention. So weirdly, one of my nominations for this category is not even that memorable of a scene. But it's when Stenslin walks out of Dudley's office after turning in his badge and gun and he puts out his hand to shake Bud's hand and we kind of move the camera around to this just wall of raw beef faces all being like raw deal Stens. And then we completely move the camera to see Exley coming down the hall all alone. And similarly, you called it a minute ago. When Bud shows up at Patchett's house and he's at the top, Patchett's putting at the bottom and they're both in frame and you feel the divide between them.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Chess.

[Bill Simmons]

Rockwell Brocklander's award for best character name. Hollywood Jack. The Big V. Lot of good ones in this. The Big V in two names. He pulled out two nicknames successfully. I'm a lot of good ones.

[Sean Fennessey]

Pierce Morehouse, Patchet, which is Pimp. Is pretty darn good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, pretty good.

[Andy Greenwald]

What about Buzz Meeks, Dick Stenson? I would say there's a like a shadow version of this category which is missed opportunities because there are a lot of characters in the film, some of whom have lines and have a role to play. And their names are Chief of Police or City Councilman.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that's because those guys in the novel Lose the Chief of Police are like real people. Real cops. Yeah, it's just.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's just I feel like if you were able to like, dine out in Los Angeles in 1998 and be like, guess what? I'm in the best picture nominated film LA Confidential, and I have three scenes. Who do you play? Councilman. It's kind of a bummer.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it is a bummer.

[Bill Simmons]

The Amanda Dobbins award for best piece of real estate.

[Andy Greenwald]

Here we go.

[Bill Simmons]

Shout out to Amanda. The LA Confidential house. It's in Hancock Park. It's right next to the 10th and 11th hole of Wilshire Country Club.

[Chris Ryan]

This is Lynn's house.

[Bill Simmons]

This is Lynn's house. So it's basically the 11th, 11th fairway. It was for sale twice in the last seven years. And the first time. So it was on one of my walks. Went and checked it out. Went did an open house before somebody fixed it up. And it was pretty beaten up. It was like the LA Confidential house. Everybody in the neighborhood knows the house.

[Sean Fennessey]

All that bud, wet sperm. Is that what the issue was?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Keep the black light in the house.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was cool.

[Chris Ryan]

Buy it to put his money in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there was no backyard. It was like mostly a front yard and then a side yard that's next to the golf course. And it was kind of like this is something you'd really have to spend money to fix it up. Somebody bought it, fixed it up, and then sold it during COVID for $7.5 million.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think they gutted it or do you think that amazing, like front room.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they kept the bones, but I think they had to fix it. Was one of those where you walked on and you could feel the floors creaking.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Bozeman. It was buried under there.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's fucking cool. And that's a really cool street that you basically come off Rossmoor, which is one of the first big Hollywood streets. You take a left and you go down and it curls around. And where it curls is where that house is. So you see it and it curls right through Cahuenga. But it's a really cool, distinct house. I don't know how livable it is.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's funny. This is the category I picked for my Flex category. But I didn't pick that house. I picked Pierce Patchett's house.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's the architectural marvel.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had some thoughts on the Pierce house. Cause that's the runner up. I wanted it to be even bigger.

[Sean Fennessey]

The inside.

[Bill Simmons]

I wanted it to be like this. Like the fucking Babylon house.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If he's dealing h Sean, he's getting that H money.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, but he's sniffing it too.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus, oh, maybe he's. Maybe he's using the product.

[Chris Ryan]

He's also got us pay for all those ladies to get cut.

[Andy Greenwald]

Getting cut was more expensive than I

[Chris Ryan]

think that might not be covered by insurance.

[Bill Simmons]

So you like the house?

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't. Are the interiors in the movie, the actual interior?

[Chris Ryan]

I've never been thought it was too bad. It's up the street from where I live.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's in Los Feliz. It's the Lovel house. It's a very famous House, Very famous architectural masterpiece in LA that was built like 100 years ago, but it feels like it was designed in the 50s and is beautiful.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a Neutra house. It was built in 27.

[Bill Simmons]

The great thing about Hancock park is like these houses have been around for 110 years and some shit went down in a lot of the houses and you just can kind of feel the energy where it's like.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, definitely like Amityville horror style.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you mean? Well, you never know.

[Chris Ryan]

Ghosts.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Who knows? Sean, Fantasy award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm. What a pleasure to have Andy here for this category.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm excited for this. But wait, what about the real estate? I thought someone was going to mention Bob's Market in Echo park, which is that the. Is like the three streets converging where the boxer is. And that's the. That's where Fast and Furious starts. Right? Isn't that like. That's the market.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. I didn't want to bring that up, but it did look a little familiar. And it would see autumn, warm feeling months.

[Sean Fennessey]

You would invoke Fast and Furious.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've never seen. I just thought you. I thought that was appealing. It's a good one to you.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean, what do you have for criteria

[Andy Greenwald]

two?

[Sean Fennessey]

And they're related. As Andy mentioned, Bud and Lynn go to a showing of Roman Holiday, the Audrey Hepburn Gregory Peck classic Oscar winning movie released September of 53. So it's right at the perfect time because this movie is December 10th, February. And when Jack goes for a drink after the party at Badge of Honor, he goes to the Frolic Room, which is right next door to the Pantages Theater, which is showing on the marquee the Bad and the Beautiful, which is, as you mentioned, is one of the key inspirations for this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Frolic Room. Still there.

[Sean Fennessey]

Still there.

[Chris Ryan]

My only other criteria orgasm is an oral.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't get to have criteria orgasm solo.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm soloing there because it's music based.

[Bill Simmons]

Just joined in. It was.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's CR month.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Chris Ryan]

It is CRM to base some of the score off of Leonard Bernstein's on the Waterfront score.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a pretty cheery based.

[Bill Simmons]

You just said to have a criteria orgasm on CRM.

[Chris Ryan]

He riffed on it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you. Have you ever orgasmed on the show on this one?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, during Sakara. You just didn't know. Quiet death, time to meet God.

[Andy Greenwald]

Little death walked into the dark.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you hear on the mailbag a listener said that the Emily Blunt Character should have been Tom Cruise. It was an amazing, amazing email. Like Tom Cruise, the firm, early 90s young guy who's irrationally a soldier. It's pretty interesting. Thought maybe you could do that on Sora.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Tom Cruz. You have a flex category.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's see. I had Jesse Eisenberg. That's good. You should be proud of that right there. Don't worry if you don't make it any further work. The best line reading was when Jack says to Exley, why in the world do you want to go digging any deeper into the night owl killings? Lt. Because it's like that made you so. Yeah, that was my favorite line reading.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch's girlfriend. Word, Weak link of the film. This will be interesting. Do we have a weak link?

[Andy Greenwald]

Sean?

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't think that it's Basinger, but I wrote down Basinger because I didn't know what to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy.

[Andy Greenwald]

This might be like a sort of a niche thing, But I think DeVito is the worst on screen. Italian as Jew since De Niro and Casino.

[Sean Fennessey]

Great take.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, I like.

[Chris Ryan]

This is. Honestly. Yeah, go ahead.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm fixated by this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Love it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, there's a lot of. And we'll get to, I imagine Cromwell's Irish accent, but, like, there's a lot of certain words are doing a lot of labor for DeVito's performance where he's just like, come on, Boichi chick.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, okay. Yeah. I found that maybe. Maybe the scales are even because Jason Alexander played a character named George Costanza. So maybe the Jewish Italian alliance is strong.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is a real hobby horse of yours.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. You like to point out great acts of age.

[Bill Simmons]

I really appreciate it. I love it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Anytime it goes up on the watch, I like it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Role of representation. Like the muckraking editor chief, Hush Hush magazine. Crouches and clowns closets to photograph the rich and powerful having sex.

[Chris Ryan]

Ellis Logue at a bj.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is important for the culture.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. So I'm just saying that's an opportunity for sure. That's the weak link.

[Chris Ryan]

The passage of time in this movie is not super well documented to me. So I think if you watch this movie like the way Craig did, like the first time, like, did you think years have gone by in this movie?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It was a little unclear.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that true?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It starts in 53 and. No, 51.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They flip a newspaper at one point, the newspaper says, oh, I would have

[Chris Ryan]

said months in the book. It's like a decade almost. It's eight years or something.

[Bill Simmons]

They're Throwing a Dodgers game in there.

[Andy Greenwald]

But they do a good job of it. Like, it doesn't really matter.

[Chris Ryan]

It doesn't really matter. It's not a weak link. And I also think to that same point, the heroine. It's still kind of hard to track the heroine in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

My weak link was Danny DeVito. Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

For different reasons.

[Bill Simmons]

For the reasons you mentioned.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

I just wasn't buying it. He's just an Italian. He's just Danny DeVito. I also. He takes me out of the movie a little. His Danny DeVito Ness is just too omnipresent and too much of a history with him. And he's in Taxi and his Remains. I can't buy him as a character. And I almost don't know if we needed a famous actor for that part. I just. Every time he's in this scene, it's

[Chris Ryan]

such a good Buscemi role or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's just. There you go again.

[Andy Greenwald]

I know it's the Armand, but.

[Sean Fennessey]

Excuse me, another Italian.

[Chris Ryan]

Is Kevin Pollock Jewish?

[Andy Greenwald]

What about Panow?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he's right there.

[Chris Ryan]

Panow. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, Kevin Pollock could have done it.

[Sean Fennessey]

He could have. I find that DeVito is a. A great first voice to hear when the movie opens and you're getting those postcards. And he's a kind of a great narrator, but when he's in scenes. And Spacey, who is a big showy actor, but is much more subtle in this movie. And DeVito is just. Just throwing ham sandwiches at him non stop. I mean, it's crazy how big he is.

[Andy Greenwald]

Maybe that's why they cast aoy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Could be.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think he's done too much comedy over the like. Even when he was getting, like, beaten up in the chair at the end, it's like, come on, I had a one for this. For recasting. Is Billy Crystal too famous for that part?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, you could certainly make the case. Danny DeVito was way too famous for this part. Why is Danny DeVito even in this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

My point is, if you're gonna go famous for that part. Part. I'd rather have Billy Crystal.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then my dream makeup, my dream choice would have been Larry David because nobody knew who Larry David really looked like in 97.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's the big brain thinking I want.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, it could. That could have been where we went. But I just.

[Chris Ryan]

So that's when Larry David walks up to Jack Vincennes and he says, this guy has a jackalith in his stomach.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. He took me out of the movie. Too much history. Anyway. What stage? The worst. Kevin Spacey. I didn't like the. The Pierce house as much. I really wanted, like, a Babylon house for him. I wanted like, just this house is obscene. We're like, in Hollywood Hills. There's no house within. Maybe we're in Malibu. I don't know. I just wanted like a giant, kind of like, crazy, oh, my God, this guy's gotta be the richest guy in LA kind of house.

[Sean Fennessey]

Got a no sell.

[Bill Simmons]

That one guy. Pierce. Kevin Spacey stuff. Pierce, that was just in the news.

[Chris Ryan]

He got handsy with him on the. On the set. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he was uncomfortable in the whole thing. I don't. Probably should have just punched him. James Elroy's relationship to the film is all over the map.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

97. He said it was a work of art on its own level. And in 2016, he said it was problematic. And in 2023, he said it was turkey of the highest form and that

[Chris Ryan]

Crow and Basinger are impotent. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then when Curtis Hansen died, he was like, it's a pretty good movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

James Owen.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't have any other. What's aged the worst?

[Sean Fennessey]

Kind of a weird cat.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. I think what's aged the worst is, hands down, the opening. And I quote, there are jobs aplenty and land is cheap. Every working man can have his own house. I don't know where any millennials. Craig, do you want to weigh in on that?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't have a home.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can working men have a home here in Los Angeles, Craig.

[Chris Ryan]

Craig is producing this from an Acura.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's one other quote in the film that is obviously very purposefully, almost groan worthy, but from downtown to the beach in 20 minutes is a heinous note, which is just kind of natural.

[Chris Ryan]

Unless you're driving a cabin you're buying in. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

A couple of what's aged the worst? The fight that Bud and Exley have in the records room, when he catches Exley, like, after Lyn, he would have fucking killed him. Like, the way he's, like, throwing him around the room. He's like slamming his head into a filing cabinet and the guy is like a shiner afterwards.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's also Russell Crowe's audition to be Wolverine.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's why he.

[Bill Simmons]

I like when he throws the chair out of the window for no reason at all. Just being like, ah, God damn it, I had something. Somebody had to pay.

[Sean Fennessey]

Something else we got to bring back is just being able to be Ruthlessly violent in the workplace. You know, just throwing furniture through windows.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That was definitely an HR violation.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Transition to talent only is the day you make that.

[Sean Fennessey]

As soon as I can get a window out.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that the LAPD had hr?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

And then the only other thing that.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they have it now I think is a better question.

[Chris Ryan]

The Lynn Dudley Bud triangle.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That whole, like, we're gonna take pictures of Exley with Lyn to make Bud go crazy so that he attacks Exley thing is the one film only flourish that is a little off. Because in the book, Inez, the rape victim is actually the center of their love triangle.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think Elroy saw that part and was like, what the fuck?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think it's just almost as like, why wouldn't they just have actually killed.

[Sean Fennessey]

Killed?

[Chris Ryan]

Like they're doing that to everybody else. Like, why?

[Bill Simmons]

I think Elroy sounds insane, but if somebody did like a adaptation of the book of basketball and they had like Karl Malone third, I would fucking lose my mind.

[Andy Greenwald]

But you said. You said your adaptation would be to forget the entire text.

[Sean Fennessey]

We got to game this out. Who's making the film? Yeah. Is it narrative? Is that a scripted film? Nobody is a 12 part documentary.

[Bill Simmons]

I have an easy category.

[Sean Fennessey]

I will direct the 12 part documentary book of Basketball if I can reorder

[Bill Simmons]

the pyramid in any way.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

And the film festival beforehand is going to be killer.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rufflo hand of Ruben Partridge Overacting word is an easy one. It's the old lady who IDs her call girl daughter. And then has two other terrible scenes and looks like David Letterman. Looks like David Letterman in drag.

[Andy Greenwald]

Gwenda Deacon just.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just a zero the entire time.

[Chris Ryan]

Say her name. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody calling sick. Was there some Oscar winner that at the last second like fell ill and they just had to grab someone.

[Andy Greenwald]

One scene. It's a vibe like. Okay. That she's. When she's identifying. That's my girl. And you're like, wow, that was really memorable. You know, day player that they found to play that role.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Of all the people who show up on set and you're like, let's reward this person with entire scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Two more scenes.

[Chris Ryan]

Two more scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

Really bad. You have a flex category.

[Sean Fennessey]

I already did it. It's Pierce Patchett and you shot me down. You said it's not a nice house and it's not architecturally significant and I should stop talking. And so I will.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was a nice art. I was saying I Feel like his house would have been splashier and more.

[Sean Fennessey]

What's his, his. What's his background? Pierce, how did he make his fortune?

[Bill Simmons]

Businessman.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, h, H, slinging H. No, no.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think he's dabbling now, but he's

[Sean Fennessey]

like, he's in his 40s or 50s at this point. So like what did he, how did

[Andy Greenwald]

he make his 40s? Honestly, people age differently.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's a good point.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's emerged out of a world of blackmail and extortion.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, I had a major nitpick for this that I was going to do later, but I'll do now since Sean brought it up. I just think gambling's part of this. I don't know how he misses it. The guy's a businessman. You got H over here. I got my call girls here. I'm having that. I have like a whole underground casino in my giant palace.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's watching March Madness hitting parlays.

[Bill Simmons]

Every boxing thing. The guys are going down there, they're taking bets.

[Chris Ryan]

There's no way he's not doing gambling in la. So there would have been this stacking.

[Bill Simmons]

Big missed opportunity. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest takeaward. Andy, you haven't done this before.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't know if I have a hot take for I struggle to find one.

[Chris Ryan]

I have one. I think this is like the perfect modern period film in that it feels really true to life. It has all of the sort of superficial, like the cars, the production design. All of it looks like the 50s, but it feels like a 90s movie. It's cut like a modern film. The acting style is decidedly modern. Everything about like the performance and the editing and the feel of the film is like 97. Like you could put this up against usual suspects and it feels very similar. But then they take all of the know how of like how to make a full on la noire movie and push it out there. It's just like the perfect balance.

[Andy Greenwald]

We should, we should chat out. Brian Raftery, our friend's article on the ringer.com about 90s noir. It really talks about why. Why the dec. Like the 50s and the 90s were decades that celebrated noir because they were decades after a big, big conflict where the United States had a very clear like you know, self, at least the way they thought of ourselves. That's boy scout role to play. And then there's kind of a moral morass afterwards.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Take wasn't hot enough. I'm coming in way hotter.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, that was warm.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just telling you, I'm. I'm going to be scorching. Sean, you go.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay. Set up to fail there. This is.

[Bill Simmons]

You can come in hot. I'm just saying people are going to get burned.

[Sean Fennessey]

The second best adaptation of the wizard of Oz of all time. That's pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good hat of snake.

[Sean Fennessey]

And wicked and wicked for good are very far. Near the bottom. There's Bud, the cop with no brain. There's Ed, the cop with no heart. And there's Jack, the cop with no courage. And then there's the victimized girl, Lynn, who just wants to escape Oz and go back home to Arizona, not Kansas. And they all get what they want.

[Chris Ryan]

And Dudley is the Wizard.

[Sean Fennessey]

He is the wizard of Oz.

[Bill Simmons]

Who?

[Andy Greenwald]

The flying monkey. That was really good.

[Sean Fennessey]

I didn't invent that take. That is something that has been suggested about this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

That's really good.

[Sean Fennessey]

It is good.

[Chris Ryan]

If you played Dark side of the Moon, starting at who invented that take?

[Andy Greenwald]

And can we get them here before the end of the day?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's been written about since the 90s because the archetypes of the characters are so strong. And it's like, why does this movie feel so familiar? Even though I've never seen this movie,

[Chris Ryan]

it feels like getting trapped by Tarantino in a kitchen somewhere. And he's like, what you don't know, man, is LA Confidential is just wizard of Oz, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Mine is. This is almost a new category. The Pierce Patchett Award for most reprehensible movie plot idea. That was actually pretty awesome. His business of high class call girls being cut to look like movie actors. I think it's kind of a brilliant business. Great job by him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's ahead of its time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like, I think you could do this now.

[Chris Ryan]

You think he wins Shark Tank?

[Bill Simmons]

I think you could. You got a Shark Tank right now and be like, so we got the Kardashian. We have Margot Robbie and I don't know, I think in the room. I think Cuban buys it.

[Chris Ryan]

Who knows, Bill? Maybe it's still happening today.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I literally had this written down. I was like, this guy invented deepfakes,

[Andy Greenwald]

essentially

[Bill Simmons]

casting what ifs. We mentioned McConaughey. He turned it down. Said in 2018, really regretted it. Russell Crowe turned it down. Then they talked him into it. Nothing else interesting. There was a Isabella Skorupko offered the lead female role. Turned it down. I don't know if I believed it. I was in one of the research things.

[Sean Fennessey]

Goldeneye.

[Bill Simmons]

Goldeneye.

[Chris Ryan]

GoldeneYE.

[Bill Simmons]

So one of the things. Other things I saw basing her was their first choice. They really wanted her. So who knows?

[Chris Ryan]

There was a Michael Madsen as Bud thing.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't believe that one. Okay. No. I kicked the tires on it. I just think at 97, is Madsen getting a movie like this?

[Andy Greenwald]

What about Michael Madson to look like Russell Crowe? Could I interest you in that?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This could go both ways. We could start doing guys too.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, that's very. Go on.

[Chris Ryan]

No, you could cut guys to look like other actors and then what would happen? Look at this Glen Powell look alike.

[Bill Simmons]

I have.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

What.

[Andy Greenwald]

What are you doing with him?

[Chris Ryan]

Having a catch.

[Bill Simmons]

CR&CR month. I bet that guy award is smorgasbord.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's so many of that. Guys, this is the best running routes.

[Sean Fennessey]

You want to do the Pierce Pageant, but just to make cool friends who look like famous people.

[Chris Ryan]

I gotta make fucking Colin Farrell from Miami Vice and go get mojitos. But he's just some dude from Nebraska

[Andy Greenwald]

got off the bus.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm a fuming for mojitos.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he would do that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Have you seen that video of the guy who hires the Tom Cruise impersonator and just has him come over to

[Bill Simmons]

his house and take us to the

[Craig Horlbeck]

mozzie and go with him one on one.

[Andy Greenwald]

Human Desire.

[Chris Ryan]

Pamela Anderson is Lynn Bracken. Did you kick the tires on that?

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't believe it.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think they're going. She's. This is a year after Baywatch Stories

[Chris Ryan]

of this podcast to me is when you'll decide a rumor is not real.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, there's a sniff test all of these and I just don't think Curtis Hansen was like, you know who we should get Pamela Anderson to play. I just don't see it. And I think as the years pass, as we discuss, I think that people just start adding stuff into the history of the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

And I. I want to start doing that for recreation. Just popping on the IMDb trivia page or Wikipedia.

[Bill Simmons]

You can just basically start adding shit. That's that guy. We have a ton we have for the common man, the Craigs out there. We have Stratharn.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I think people. Not everybody knows his name. Rob Rifkin is definitely that guy. We know him as Ron or Rob.

[Sean Fennessey]

Ron.

[Bill Simmons]

Ron Rifky in I'm going so much Deeper.

[Sean Fennessey]

The leader of SD6, we have Matt

[Bill Simmons]

McCoy, the dad from Hand that Rocks the Cradle callback. Wait.

[Andy Greenwald]

Matt McCoy also, who I will always think of as Nick Laard the replacement for Steve Gutenberg in the later period

[Sean Fennessey]

police account movies 5 and 6.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was like, this guy's going to be a star as big as Steve Gutenberg. That's 10 year old. My first podcast tape.

[Chris Ryan]

And then in one of the TV adaptations he played Exley's dad.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt McCoy is Matt McCoy. Except for Craig.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a couple other stealth one.

[Bill Simmons]

Alan Graff is the wife beater in the beginning.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he might have been

[Chris Ryan]

in the most rewatchable star coordinator and second unit director. But yes, he has been killed in 74 rewatchables.

[Bill Simmons]

But I know that we have the same winner for this.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm excited.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have Thomas Arana?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh my God. What part was he?

[Chris Ryan]

He's one of Dudley's henchmen who's in. He's the fucking guy at the end of Hunt for October and he's Russell Crowe's homie in Gladiator and he's in Limitless.

[Bill Simmons]

So great choice, but that was not who I had. Here's another one.

[Andy Greenwald]

John Mahone first rewatched John Mahone. Yeah, that's who I have. John Mahone, who's always. If you can't.

[Sean Fennessey]

I assume you're talking about Paul Guilfoyle.

[Bill Simmons]

The guy driving the armored truck in Heat is one of the guys that get in the prison fight with.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the first guy is driving the car.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh my God. Are you serious?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The guy who's like got.

[Bill Simmons]

The guy who's driving in the armored truck and he looks over and sees the truck and does this. Yeah, he's the first guy that can't hear you. Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cousin Art.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I can't believe you didn't notice that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I'm sorry.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, this is why you're you man.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought you would have been riding with me on this.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm.

[Chris Ryan]

Right now.

[Bill Simmons]

I literally don't know that guy.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't want to look at Hunt for October, Gladiator.

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty good.

[Andy Greenwald]

What about John Mahone though, who plays Chiefs of police? His. He was. He was American President, Armageddon, Zodiac in Austin Powers 2. He was NATO colonel, he was Earth Corp ship commander in something. And famously he was the LMU coach in the Hank Gather story. Oh, I just put that into appeal

[Chris Ryan]

to who was the LMU coach? Wasn't it somebody famous? Who was their off at?

[Bill Simmons]

The guy Paul Wested.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, there you go.

[Bill Simmons]

But again, so that guy, he's typ cast but in a Good way. And he's telling his wife. Yeah. There's this new Tom Quancy. There's this part for the general. I think I'm gonna get it.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm either.

[Bill Simmons]

He just kind of knows I'm either

[Andy Greenwald]

one of the chiefs of staff or I'm Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff no matter what.

[Chris Ryan]

Philip Baker hall is busy. That's that guy. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who do you have for Dan Wade or cr.

[Chris Ryan]

I think this is Adam.

[Bill Simmons]

Adam as well. Unless you wanted to throw some Dick Stenzling at me.

[Chris Ryan]

I throw Simon Baker in here as well. Early Simon Baker first. Simon Baker, actually, so that he has a different name.

[Sean Fennessey]

3 Aussie. 3 Aussie. Nice movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Did get my wife's attention when he came on because, you know, big Devil Wears Prada part for him.

[Sean Fennessey]

What about the Mentalist? Were you a fan of that show?

[Bill Simmons]

Never watched it. Okay, recasting couch director of City. Did anybody have anything else for this? I do. We already talked about this. What do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

I want to talk something out here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

For Dudley Apostle with.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, bonus point. Actually Irish.

[Chris Ryan]

Authentically Irish.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Only of course, the hell your mother's in it.

[Chris Ryan]

Unquestionably fucking evil the second you see him. Nobody's like, what a nice guy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Small, though, of stature, not of charisma,

[Chris Ryan]

but is closer to like what Dudley was, which was just like very sinister.

[Sean Fennessey]

You think postuate communicates evil right away.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, don't you? I mean, I know in the Jim Sheridan.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, that's like, yeah, in the name of the Father. He's so moral.

[Chris Ryan]

But he's coming off the lawyer and usual suspect.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah, Kobayashi.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, coming off that. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's good.

[Chris Ryan]

And then I have.

[Bill Simmons]

How tall is Cromwell?

[Andy Greenwald]

He keeps growing. In my estimation, he's like.

[Chris Ryan]

He's six steps.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like Victor Wembley.

[Chris Ryan]

Now, the only other ones I had was, how about Campbell Scott or Josh Charles as Exley?

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, good choices.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Bale too young at this point?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just trying to get a good American a job.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I see what you're doing. So Damon. It should just be Damon. Okay. He could have done this talented Mr. Ripley, Goodwill Hunting and Rounders all in a row. Would have been like, oh, my God, the fucking goat is here.

[Sean Fennessey]

Pretty good.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I like that.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's one year after Larry Flynn, so Ed Norton is a possibility. And he.

[Bill Simmons]

You know Ed Norton, That's a really good one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's why I'm here.

[Bill Simmons]

So Ed Norton was American History X and rounders in 97. So would not have probably been available for this movie, but would have been a really good X link, I think. So. Ed Burns,

[Sean Fennessey]

year before Saving Private Ryan. She's the one. Is that 96?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. Ed Burns is Exley.

[Sean Fennessey]

Ed Burns was a hard boiled detective in a TV show like seven years ago. What was that show called? Him on the podcast. Yeah, what was that show called?

[Andy Greenwald]

Great question.

[Sean Fennessey]

I watched, watched some of that show.

[Chris Ryan]

Was he a detective?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Obviously had Burns Long island and got stuck for life.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy, you have a flex category?

[Andy Greenwald]

I do.

[Bill Simmons]

What was his show called?

[Andy Greenwald]

Was it Public Morals? Yeah, my flex category is probably. Let me find it. But it was. You probably could have guessed that I would have chosen this. I chose the Big Kahuna Burger category, but I don't know if I did it right because there are a couple opportunities to discuss food and drink in this movie. How much time do we have left?

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, generally, maybe this also goes into the Floyd Gandali. Like, I really like, like movies is set in an era when there are no choices in liquor stores. You walk in and you say, give me a box. And in that box I want gin, scotch and vodka. And the guy's like, okay. I don't know what the holdup is too. Like, I feel like he could have been doing this more quickly since there were no other options.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also just like great to go into stores where people are just dicks to you from behind the counter. Like, where it's just like, don't worry about a Yelp review, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like Nick from Nick's Liquor's entire performance was ADR'd for some reason. You never see his face. It always sounds like a very strong voice. Also, speaking of drinks, I really feel like Stenzoland, you know, probably is correctly labeled as a malcontent and maybe not a good cop. Pretty fun at parties considering his mixology abilities, in which he takes dark liquor and light liquor and just pours them into the punch at the same time. Shout out to Formosa, which still exists. Get a good meal there. I don't think you can like Johnny Stompanato have a. A daytime Schlitz there. And just with the company of your own thoughts, which I did enjoy. And then the only other food really mentioned in the film is Matt Reynolds Last Meal, which is pretty iconic. It's a frankfurter, french fries, alcohol and sperm.

[Sean Fennessey]

Tough one.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough order.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a tough order. But maybe, you know, restaurant menus were different then.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the secret menu At In N Out.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, Dudley picked up the chat panel style.

[Chris Ryan]

God damn. I thought it was just.

[Andy Greenwald]

They drill the onions?

[Chris Ryan]

Nope.

[Sean Fennessey]

Can't believe Sierra went this ending half ass.

[Bill Simmons]

Internet research. No building in LA back in the day was led to be taller than City Hall. So they had to basically cheat all the camera work so we wouldn't see any buildings. Had that. So they had the fight scene with Guy Pearce and Russell Crowe. They were shot four months after principal photography had ended and Pierce had shaved his head for another movie. So he's got a wig on. But I didn't really notice the wig when I was watching it.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm wearing one right now.

[Bill Simmons]

The cop that congratulates Exley at the end is Daryl Gates, famously of the lapd.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a weird movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Controversial cameo say the least.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Not ideal.

[Bill Simmons]

Very strange choice.

[Sean Fennessey]

Not ideal.

[Bill Simmons]

Then you mentioned the rape victim Inez in the movie, who then disappears after one more scene in the book. She's huge.

[Chris Ryan]

Huge.

[Bill Simmons]

And with. Excellent. And they just cut all that out

[Chris Ryan]

and works for his dad. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's crazy. And then the. The Lovell house is here. That's Patchett's home. It's a famous house. As we mentioned, Bracken's house is at 501 Wilcox, which is. Which is we talked about next to the Wilshire Country Club.

[Chris Ryan]

Current inhabitants just had a broadcast to the entire.

[Bill Simmons]

Sorry, guys. And then they look like. And then the Victory Motel was built. They just liked the location. And they built like the Inglewood.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the oil fields out by there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Apex Mountain, Crow. No spacey.

[Chris Ryan]

This is.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think there's a case to be made there.

[Bill Simmons]

It's either this or American Beauty. But I like this. Sets up American Beauty. And I wrote down the run is in. Okay. Guy Pierce. It's Memento. Although it didn't really turn into anything after Memento like we thought.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's had a great, great career.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but I'm saying after Memento, it's like.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think post the Brutalist, it might be now. Wow. Interesting. I think he is very well regarded. Brutalist movie. It was a film.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessey]

Came out 2024.

[Chris Ryan]

You start brutalist.

[Bill Simmons]

Started Brutalist. Listen, did you.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think you made the right call.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's just 10 minutes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Shameful opinions here.

[Andy Greenwald]

Walk out on that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Not all of us have to watch every movie. We can pick and choose a title.

[Sean Fennessey]

It was nominated for best picture. It wasn't like some obscure piece of.

[Andy Greenwald]

But really, it could have been a TV show. Okay.

[Sean Fennessey]

I will assassinate both of you. Tell you what, I have another secret for you.

[Bill Simmons]

I never finished Babylon.

[Andy Greenwald]

My main concern. Sean, I'm with you. In terms of Guy Pearce being an interesting actor who will age into different gravitas, he should probably stay offline. I don't know if you've seen some of his recent retweets and quotes for global actions. Let's just say that I, the tenor of his tweets suggest that he was pro Danny DeVito being cast as Sid Hutchins and he would not want someone else cast in that role.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, no, I'll just throw that out there. Okay, so you want it. You want him abolished from society? What are you saying?

[Andy Greenwald]

I just want him to take his phone away. Stop tweeting.

[Bill Simmons]

Cd La Noire crime movies. Chinatown. Apex Mountain. Yeah. Gotta be, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Basinger. I don't. I weirdly don't think this was Apex Mountain for her. I think it was in the 80s. During that nine and a half week stretch.

[Chris Ryan]

Did she do the getaway after?

[Andy Greenwald]

Get Away was before this.

[Bill Simmons]

Get Away was before this. I think it was nine and a half weeks. Batman. Like that era.

[Chris Ryan]

Follow this up with some.

[Andy Greenwald]

Everyone loved her. Some well deserved.

[Bill Simmons]

She married Alec Baldwin and I think she. She scaled back a tiny bit after this.

[Sean Fennessey]

But they weren't they married before this movie?

[Andy Greenwald]

They were married during this film. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I saw no Mercy in the theater with my mom.

[Andy Greenwald]

Her next movie was 8 mile 5 years later.

[Bill Simmons]

Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which one did you see with your mom?

[Bill Simmons]

No Mercy with Richard Gere and Kim Basinger where they're handcuffed together and trying to escape in New Orleans. And there was.

[Chris Ryan]

I gotta admit, I don't know this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's bad. I haven't seen it. And my mom really wanted to see it. I hadn't been hanging out with her. And we went. And there was a point. I'm like, wow, this is a weird one to be with my mom. I wish. Kind of wish I wasn't with my mom.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's amazing that Joe, just 90 seconds ago you were like, I don't have to see every movie. But you're telling us about no Mercy.

[Bill Simmons]

You seeing no Mercy Gear and Bassinger. Come on. Turned out to be legendary Frolic Room.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wait, hold on. I have a question. Do you think that 8 mile is rewatchable?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't love it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's an interesting time capsule. I don't know if I'm glad it

[Bill Simmons]

exists, but I wouldn't get the 4K.

[Sean Fennessey]

I wonder if my. Just if Being a few years younger makes me like that movie a little bit more.

[Chris Ryan]

You were more of an Eminem.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was more into Eminem.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's right. He spoke, dude.

[Bill Simmons]

Frolic.

[Chris Ryan]

That movie peaks with Mob Deep playing in the opening seconds.

[Bill Simmons]

DeVito. No, it's a critical part of the film. Evil Cromwell. Is he Ben Evil in anything else?

[Chris Ryan]

Probably. He's bad in a couple of things, but not the devil.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your favorite Cromwell?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's this.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, God. Well, he really is good in that Star Trek movie. I think he's very good in that. That. But Succession was good.

[Bill Simmons]

And, yeah, I really loved him in Succession. I think that's my favorite crawl, the Cromwell.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's hilarious in that because he's. He's his. Him and Nick. Nicholas Braun are genius together. He plays the president in a Jack Ryan movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. But I think this is, like, maybe his.

[Chris Ryan]

Mike Harrison for Jack Ryan or.

[Sean Fennessey]

Which one? No, it's the Ben Affleck one.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's excellent in this. So I'd probably. I might say this. Toilet face dunking. I still think it's St. Elmo's fire there.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

50s LA.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe capture a movie dangling a guy

[Bill Simmons]

out the window to get a guy out the window.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Big Lebowski. Pretty good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good call. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Good. I've got a special big picture episode. Toilet Dunks.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a really.

[Bill Simmons]

For a slow time, like a June.

[Sean Fennessey]

Be like two and a half, three hours.

[Chris Ryan]

I would pay $10 to watch Amanda, watch four hours of guys getting dumped in a.

[Andy Greenwald]

Of ton.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do we have four hours of that much footage?

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, when. Whenever there's a Toilet Dunk. I always think about the actor. And if I had been the actor, like, how many times I would have asked the crew, are we sure it's clean? Nobody's going to the bathroom.

[Sean Fennessey]

This.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who cleaned it? Like, I just can't think of anything worse. The Santa Monica's fire is a good one because it's like a pretty, like, grungy bathroom.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hancock park movie houses house. It's probably the. It's the Howard Hughes house in the Aviator. I still feel like.

[Chris Ryan]

Which one's that?

[Bill Simmons]

It's on the eighth hole in Wilshire. It's when they land the plane. But he's in that. I feel like that's the best movie location of all of them. Cruiser Hanks.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, wait, can we do one Apex Mountain here?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

For me, this is the Apex mountain of guys getting shot in the heart. Like, the dude watching the Cartoon will live rent free in my head forever. Because of the noises he makes after being shot and the attention paid to Kevin Spacey's post heart shot. It's very good. I feel like they had a shot in the heart consultant on this film after the.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, you don't need to. That guy's dead. He shot him in the heart. Checking the pulse.

[Chris Ryan]

A heart shot if it's double tapped and then a guy gets a headshot after because Wingrove's like.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a good one.

[Chris Ryan]

When they get him in the hotel room. But then he gets shot.

[Andy Greenwald]

And what movie was that? Chris Heat. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, fortunately we have a future serial killer here. Craig Rollbeck. Shot in the heart, you die instantly, right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, I don't think you do. Which is why when Russell Crowe shoots him and then go immediately checks his pulse. I guess he wouldn't have a pulse if he was just shot in the heart. But it has been literally like two seconds. Yes, because we see Spacey die and he gets 20 seconds to deliver the line of Rolo. What is it?

[Sean Fennessey]

Tomasi.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't think I would have had that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So they kind of fudged a little bit. Sometimes you die instantly when you get shot in the heart. Sometimes you don't.

[Chris Ryan]

It depends if you're hitting a ventricle.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, I think your brain still works.

[Chris Ryan]

So I.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's amazing to have five doctors here and not know the answer to this question.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, look, we're all about.

[Bill Simmons]

Feel free to email us the answer.

[Andy Greenwald]

All of us are employed at the cdc, Sean, and we are all trying to promote.

[Chris Ryan]

How many games could Jason Tatum play after getting shot in the heart? You know, it's just like.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Right back at it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Don't tempt OG Anunoby is all I'm saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruiser Hanks. Hanks as Hollywood Jack

[Chris Ryan]

who cruises Exley.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cruises Exley is what I was thinking as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Ed Cruises Exley was the other choice. So we go cruise.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think Hank later. Hanks as Dudley.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be a great twist.

[Bill Simmons]

Casting Hanks would never go heel like that. What's the closest he can. Road to Perdition.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, he did it in. What's the Wachowskis movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Cloud Atlas.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cloud Atlas, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn't he play like nine guys?

[Sean Fennessey]

He plays like four characters. But he does play a villain. You haven't seen it?

[Bill Simmons]

No. This would have been good for him. I think for the catalog. Him playing one villain in the 90s with all the other shit he did would have been Good, too.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think it would be fun if Bill watched Cloud Atlas?

[Sean Fennessey]

I do think it'd be fun, yeah. I think if we could get some.

[Bill Simmons]

How long will Bill last during Cloud Atlas would be a better game.

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't think it's your speed, but you're not a Hanks completist. That's something we can say about you. You haven't seen them all.

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't been happy with the 21st century in Hanks. I've been on the right record for a while. I know you have as well.

[Sean Fennessey]

I wish he did some different things. Yeah, he's trying. He's trying a lot of new instruments. They don't all sound good.

[Bill Simmons]

I think when you fly as close to the sun as he did in the 90s and then with Castaway, I don't. At some point it's like, I've won seven titles. What else do you want from him?

[Andy Greenwald]

He only seems happy in the Wes Anderson movies now. He enjoys those.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's good in those.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's very good.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think he's good at that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Even Cranston.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. They're cooking two man weave. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg? Clearly Scorsese. Yeah, but.

[Chris Ryan]

But I do think it would be interesting to see Spielberg have. The way that this movie excises some of the gross stuff from LA Confidential and also makes the characters a little less. I mean, Exley is like lies about his war record in the novel. Like, there's a lot of stuff like, about these characters that are even worse. But if you kind of like gave Spielberg this script, I do think it would be good.

[Bill Simmons]

That being said, he would have cast DeVito as the Hush Hush editor.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you 100%.

[Chris Ryan]

Dreyfus was back in the nation.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's great. That's a great pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God, that's great. That would have been great.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sean, for this category, I feel like you have to stand up for like, the working director, like Curtis Hansen, because again, if it's Scorsese or it's Spielberg, it has a very different point of view.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

Don't you think?

[Bill Simmons]

Styleistically, that's not the game.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to pick.

[Andy Greenwald]

You have to pick.

[Sean Fennessey]

One thing I will say about Hansen that he said that I thought was really interesting is he was like, I like suspense films. And that's not really a word you hear. Like, we talk about thrillers all the time on the show. This is often called a crime movie. This is a suspense movie. The way that, like, a lot of Alfred Hitchcock films are where you Just like, really want to know where it's going and what's going to happen. And you're kind of like you're locked in. Like we were saying, there's just not a lot of fat on the movie. And because of that, if you look at almost all of it, the River Wild is the same thing where the whole time you're like, where is this going?

[Bill Simmons]

You like that movie the River Wild? Fuck, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I like the remake, too.

[Bill Simmons]

I watched on Netflix a movie called Gaslit by My Husband.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's right there in the top.

[Chris Ryan]

We didn't finish Babylon, first of all.

[Bill Simmons]

It was amazing. It was a Lifetime movie. It was number one on Netflix. Had to check it out. And I was just riveted the entire time.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think?

[Sean Fennessey]

Or Gas lit by My Husband.

[Bill Simmons]

The title is Gaslit by My Husband.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was.

[Bill Simmons]

This was everything I wanted.

[Chris Ryan]

Did anybody appear in it that we would ever have heard of?

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't recognize one actor?

[Andy Greenwald]

Will the algorithm on Netflix just roll from this rewatchables right into that first? Can we arrange for that when we do the.

[Bill Simmons]

When the After CR Month, when Gaslight by My Husband is the next episode.

[Sean Fennessey]

Gaslighting Month is a good idea. You could do the film Gaslight.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you should check it out. Liz, I think you guys would like Gaslight By. Yeah. She basically thinks she's going crazy, but he's doing stuff to her. And it actually would have been a really good movie with better actors. That's my one blurb I'd like to

[Sean Fennessey]

encourage you to check out the 1940s classic Gaslight around, which this seems to be very clearly.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to. Best hang. Worst hang. Best hang. Probably Lynn Kim Basinger's character, Jack. Hollywood Jack. Best hang go the Frolic Room with Hollywood Jack.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pierce Patchett is the best hang.

[Bill Simmons]

Cool house, cool attitude, nice house of heroin.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's on heroin all the time, so he's chill.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe four hours of golf with Pierce Patchett would be fun.

[Andy Greenwald]

It'd probably be eight hours.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Jack would be like, I know how to get into all the clubs. I know. Like, we would go get a nice meal or something.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like grease the wheels.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Dudley.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, Best or worst.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he does like his whiskey from Ireland. He had that good line.

[Sean Fennessey]

Knows all the secrets of the world.

[Bill Simmons]

Where's Tank Stenland?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, no, no, Mrs. Lers.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's also a dead body.

[Chris Ryan]

I actually. But he's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're right. Picking nits. I mentioned the gambling really bothered me that There was no gambling in this movie. Kim Basinger was prettier than Veronica Lake. I did some Veronica Lake research.

[Sean Fennessey]

Hold on.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think, like, she's right. I just needed to dye my hair and I'm good because I'm hotter than Veronica Lake?

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a subjective opinion.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like, whoever's hotter, she. I don't think she looks like Veronica Lake.

[Bill Simmons]

She.

[Sean Fennessey]

Nor do I think she acts like Veronica Lake.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Sean Fennessey]

And so she might be the actress who most looks like Veronica Lake at that time, who would make sense for the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

But Veronica Lake would have cast that differently if anyone who went to the movie in 1997 couldn't remember who Veronica Lake was. Except for film nerds, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. But even just the way that Veronica Lake acts, she's a way more playful actor. She was way funnier and is in a lot of light comedy in the 40s. And Kim Basinger's not a funny actor at all.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think the lady who's they think is a Lana Turner lookalike but is Lana Turner, in fact, looks like Lana Turner?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought that was pretty good, actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I didn't mind that one. Lana Turner and Johnny Stompanato, by the way, weren't together until a couple years after this movie wrapped up, which was. They kind of shaved it. Anything else for nitpicks? We talked about everything.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's a lot of. It's actually not that fun to go searching for nits for this movie because there's, like, a thousand people being like. Actually, plastic ketchup bottles weren't invented until the seventies.

[Bill Simmons]

And actually the books in Pierce's bookcase.

[Andy Greenwald]

The only nit that really bugged me on rewatch was there's the scene where Dudley's like, edmund, lose the glasses. I've never seen a police officer wearing glasses. And then it cuts to stencil and pouring liquor, and the first guy with this cup is fucking four eyes. So I feel like Dudley just left that party.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel. Prequel. Prestige TV. All Black cast or untouchable? So in 2020, Brian Helgelin, the writer, said there was a sequel that was in development with Chadwick Boseman, who then got sick and they decided not to do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Not based on an Elroy novel.

[Bill Simmons]

It was set in 1974, and Crowe and Pierce would have both been in it, and it just kind of fell apart. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And Helen, it said, warner Brothers passed. And he said that Elroy was either on board or had been spoken to.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Florist, Zane Lowe or somebody else. What do you have? Cr.

[Andy Greenwald]

I just wanted, like, I just wanted to just shout out the other TV pilot.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because there were two. There was one in 2003 that you can watch online with Kiefer Sutherland as

[Bill Simmons]

Hollywood and the Trio logo during the heyday of Trio.

[Andy Greenwald]

Trio's brilliant but canceled when they would air pilots.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good idea, by the way.

[Andy Greenwald]

I wish we could bring that back. But the one that was for CBS 2019 is pretty compelling because it was created by a writer named Jordan Harper, who wrote a book we love called Everybody Knows. And it was Walton Goggins as Vincennes, it was Shea Wiggum as Stenzlin, then a bunch of other good working actors like Mark Weber was Bud White. And Harper's whole pitch was that he was gonna spread out time. And so the Night Owl wasn't even gonna happen until the second season.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's like, you can't find that

[Andy Greenwald]

one, that you can't find it. I've heard that it was very good and that also CBS never ever would have made it because it was a very strange choice for CBS in 2020.

[Sean Fennessey]

You can do a show like that on network television.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it was an era when I think they were taking swings to try, like, will we become cable or will we.

[Bill Simmons]

CBS was like, can you move it to Chicago and just set it in

[Chris Ryan]

a fire department and have them never

[Craig Horlbeck]

leave the fire department?

[Andy Greenwald]

If you just called it Cops, Cole in Los Angeles, it probably would have been on the fall schedule. Sorry to interrupt.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got? Sierra, you have Wayne Jenkins, Fergie, the floor, Zane Lowe. Anybody else? We've had Zane every week this month.

[Chris Ryan]

Dudley, man, here we are. From the streets of Dublin to the boulevards of Sunset, the City of Angels. And you, you've always held that badge high. That's your journey. But now you're on the other side of the law. So tell me, tell me how you got there. Tell me what you plan to do with all that H. The rackets, the sin, the vice. Just explain it all to me, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

Why.

[Sean Fennessey]

Why does Zade keep interviewing cops?

[Chris Ryan]

Yo, if Zane just, just, just launched Cop talk and was him talking to fictional and non fictional cops, Amazing.

[Andy Greenwald]

But he talks about their, like, career high points.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, everything is like as if they're Harry Styles.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Like you've just, you know, all the sounds you feel you're hearing, you're seeing.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're bracing people.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought for sure you were going to have him interview the Simon Baker character. It's been a rough road for you, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Last meal, a hot dog with a topper of semen. But here you are, man, so close to Badge of Honor.

[Andy Greenwald]

I can't.

[Sean Fennessey]

I. It's in the. It's in the Bernthal zone where I can't make eye contact with you. When you start doing it, transform. Have you ever watched the Zayn interview?

[Craig Horlbeck]

You?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, because of Chris.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, he. He encouraged it to say.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, no, I didn't encour. I didn't tell you you have to watch a Zayn interview, did I?

[Andy Greenwald]

You tell me to do lots of things.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's weird because, like, I was when, when, when Zane, like interviewing Adele or whatever was happening during Cranlin and, and Juliette and Chris were both so into it. They would show it to me and I'd be like, this is nothing to me. Like, I don't know what is interesting about this. Like, it's fine. It's an interview of an artist.

[Bill Simmons]

They were just walking around the office with. With a computer showing people, hoping to connect.

[Sean Fennessey]

But what you've done with it, you've transformed.

[Chris Ryan]

And today the return of that. It's just fucking playing.

[Bill Simmons]

Hello. Just one Oscar. Who gets it?

[Sean Fennessey]

Dante Spinatti?

[Chris Ryan]

Nah, he fucking blacked out here.

[Sean Fennessey]

The cinematographer, Chris, explained it so well, I thought, which is like, how does this movie doesn't look like it's trying to be a 50s movie. It looks like it's trying to be a 90s movie. Titanic one.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

This movie actually won two Oscars and lost seven. And it lost all seven to Titanic.

[Bill Simmons]

Oof. Tough beat.

[Andy Greenwald]

Dante has an incredible, incredible CV where he's also known as working as being the primary DP for Michael Mann and Brett Ratner.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. He shot parts of Melania.

[Andy Greenwald]

He did Manhunter and the Last Stand.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I read a Q and A with him about Melania where they were like, what are you doing? And he, he was like, I'm a working journalist.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's interviewed by the New Yorker about it and he wouldn't blink. He was like, yeah, I took the job, I'd take it again.

[Andy Greenwald]

He is, I believe. How old is he? He's currently 84, 85.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a very well shot documentary. Probably answerable questions.

[Sean Fennessey]

You say you haven't finished Babylon, but you have completed Melania.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't finish Melania either. I did watch the first 20 minutes,

[Chris Ryan]

but you haven't watched Gaslit by my husband to completion.

[Bill Simmons]

The first. That's also by my husband. If they wins the sequel yeah. She's got to remarry. Have it happen again. Probably unanswerable questions. Actually, like a whiff. Maybe gay. Maybe there's something going on there with him and Bud.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. What does Lynn say? You can't bud by me.

[Bill Simmons]

That was, I thought, the tell. And also like, he was really. Now, granted, Lynard looks great.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's the only time he's interested in that the entire movie. And it seems directly because of some sort of weird Bud thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I think that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessey]

It kind of. By not having him take care of Inez, like, it also undercuts a little bit of his white knight. Kind of like presentation in the book.

[Bill Simmons]

I just thought that whole part was weird. And then this is the biggest one to me. Is it a better movie if Bud just dies? Do we need to see him again?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's kind of related to my unanswerable, which was what was Bud White gonna do to support Lynn in Arizona?

[Chris Ryan]

Or what was Lynn going to do

[Andy Greenwald]

to support the dress store? She's going to do the dress store.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you think that that's what she's gonna pay for? The. He's been shocking multiple times.

[Bill Simmons]

This year's the Watney Award. What are they doing in Phoenix? He's got a hole in his face. This is what I wondered, like, former call girl.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is the implication that he can't speak anymore? Because that's in the book.

[Chris Ryan]

He can't talk anymore. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's really surviving. The two gunshots and then the one right to the face from five feet away.

[Chris Ryan]

That felt like a note. It made it. It wasn't a note, but it felt like what we gotta have is like the three good people in this movie. Handshake at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you surprised to see him in the car at the end?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, that was my flex. The Clarence Worley should have died. I do think he should have died. It would have been better for his character. Go down to hero, showing him in the car. I think the whole ending. I felt a little deflated at the end of her line at the end

[Chris Ryan]

is like, some guys get the girl or whatever.

[Andy Greenwald]

Some guys get the guys get the world.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Others get an ex hooker and a trip to Arizona. And then you see Russell Crowe. I do feel like it kind of deflated a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Aaron Rodgers said that to Mike Tomlinson when the Steelers fell apart.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's coming back.

[Bill Simmons]

So there's a case that this movie could just end at the hotel and we don't even need the last scenes. Yeah, we definitely don't need the. The Psycho ending with him explaining the entire plot in the to all the cops.

[Chris Ryan]

That's Elroy. Every Elroy book is like there's a 5, 10 page scene of like they find the one guy who can explain everything and he does.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that the all time. Why did you add this scene?

[Sean Fennessey]

The psycho person?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, just get that scene out of there. Turn the movie off. As soon as people listening who haven't seen Psycho during the big attempted murder scene at the end, just end the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I. I've gone back and forth on the Psycho one. I mean, maybe we can save it for the Psycho episode, but I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it gonna be a Psycho episode? I love that movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

That would be great if you want to do Psycho. I love Psycho, but I like the

[Andy Greenwald]

way you acted as if you didn't just suggest it. Oh, you guys wanna do Psycho?

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, I never actually thought we were

[Bill Simmons]

gonna make a film he plan and then made the other person think they thought of it.

[Sean Fennessey]

But it's 1960. We don't do movies that. That far back historically. But I would love to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

But there's two things running out of movies now that we've done. CRM.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Vertigo. Don't you want to do Vertigo?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Vertigo we've talked about for a while.

[Sean Fennessey]

But that's like horny cr. Horny Bill Hall. Speaking of cutting women to look like other women. That's a part of Vertigo as well.

[Chris Ryan]

Speaking of that's not like a big pastime of mine is cutting women to make them look like women.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like Petey Falcon's Copland.

[Sean Fennessey]

The thing about Psycho is the psychiatrist explaining Norman Bates. That part is terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I mean.

[Sean Fennessey]

But the cutaway to Norman at the end with the fly and him like the voice in his head. That part is great.

[Bill Simmons]

I was talking about the doctor explaining the four minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I had a probably answer.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think it would be more entertaining if Shams adopted Sid's writing style? Word around the forum is that Lucas Slovenian's sweetheart has taken his kids back to the motherland. But while the baby mama is away, the cat will average 34 points a game. Hashtag Shams.

[Bill Simmons]

Hush, hush.

[Sean Fennessey]

Again. Shams is now portrayed by Robert Loggia, which is problematic.

[Andy Greenwald]

Problematic?

[Chris Ryan]

Why is that problematic?

[Bill Simmons]

Can Shams. Can we add Shams to the Wayne Jenkinsane low category?

[Chris Ryan]

But Shams Hudgens.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is great. This is what Choms needed.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Rebrand little boost instead of him like, going on first take in these shows, he could just. That could be his little video thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Everybody in Boston is talking about whether the two Js will be able to share the ball and what it means for the two P's. Peyton Pritchard,

[Andy Greenwald]

off the Dome.

[Chris Ryan]

Hashtag sh.

[Sean Fennessey]

Why is this Robert Lo.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Robert Loa. As shobs. As the. As the judge guy.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my Danny DeVito voice.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is that weird? You can do better than that.

[Bill Simmons]

Workshop.

[Chris Ryan]

That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Secret handshake Club memorabilia. One from this movie. It's got to be the Night Owl coffee mug, right?

[Chris Ryan]

I had Roller Tomasi, I guess. Is that too big for.

[Bill Simmons]

What is. What is it, though?

[Chris Ryan]

I. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Because it's memorabilia. It has to be something specifically memorabilia.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Night out.

[Bill Simmons]

You've got to be the night out

[Andy Greenwald]

that we could each share. And if one of us is killed, that's pretty good. We should come up with that.

[Bill Simmons]

There wasn't, like, was there matches from the Victory Hotel? I didn't see that.

[Sean Fennessey]

I had Jack Vincennes tortoiseshell sunglasses, which I think are sick.

[Andy Greenwald]

Ooh.

[Chris Ryan]

But this is different than memorabilia.

[Bill Simmons]

It's memorabilia, but it's secret handshake memorabilia.

[Chris Ryan]

Gotcha.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so if I just had a Night Owl coffee mug, and you were like, is that LA Confidential? It's like one of those. Like, you almost have to, like, get it.

[Chris Ryan]

So you haven't seen me leaving Fleur de Lee business cards at your house, then?

[Bill Simmons]

Fleur de Lee business cards. That'd be another one.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I gotta go.

[Andy Greenwald]

1.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The opening scene of the movie, the opening montage. They show you a Hush Hush magazine cover that says the line that DeVito says in the beginning of the movie of ingenue dykes in Hollywood.

[Chris Ryan]

You could.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That would be mine.

[Chris Ryan]

The Hush Hush magazine.

[Sean Fennessey]

Where would you leave that?

[Craig Horlbeck]

We could put it among a stack of regular magazines.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just imagining bill getting 100 new dykes in Hollywood served to him on Netflix.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm searching for it tonight on ebay

[Chris Ryan]

and just be like, yeah, all right. I was gonna watch Babylon, but it.

[Andy Greenwald]

The Brutalist is too long.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you guys laugh, but put on Gaslight by my husband. Get gas lit. Give us 10 minutes and see if you're still watching.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It would be a good bit for you, Sean.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like, start logging it. Yeah. Is there a sequel to this?

[Bill Simmons]

It would be funny if you just logged it out of nowhere.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'll watch it. Look, I'll watch anything. I don't care.

[Bill Simmons]

Was number one on Netflix that had my attention. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were a best, worst life lesson. Some men get the world. Others get ex hookers and a trip to Arizona. It's a pretty good life lesson. Best double feature choice. We all have Chinatown.

[Sean Fennessey]

Who Framed Roger Rabbit, which is similarly a movie about this period in history. Post war detectives trying to solve a big cover up, but also a kind of a parable about the building of the highways and who controls the ways and means of the city.

[Andy Greenwald]

What noir would you put up with? This In a Lonely Place.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a great one. That one's a little Hollywood inside piece of.

[Chris Ryan]

I like Touch of Evil for that.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's good.

[Chris Ryan]

Mexico, not an LA movie. I would also say as a kind of museum piece. More than an enjoyable movie. The Brian De Palma's Black Dahlia, which there's now legendarily a director's cut. I don't know if that's true or not.

[Bill Simmons]

Are there Dahlia heads out there?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Black Dahlia is an incredible novel.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm saying for the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I think there are people who are like the secret director's cut that would

[Andy Greenwald]

be holding out hope. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

So I think a really good semi classic noir. Not as seen as some of the best known ones. That would be good for this is the Blue Dahlia, which features Veronica Lake. Alan Ladd is the star. It's about a guy who comes home from World War II and takes a trip to Los Angeles. And it's the only original screenplay that Raymond Chandler ever wrote. And he was nominated for an Academy Award for it. And it's like. It's a pretty good movie. It's not considered on that like Bogart class of noirs. But I really like it.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a double feature guest lit by my husband.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's good. Good choice.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd watch it first, though, and then go in LA conference.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have one?

[Andy Greenwald]

In Lonely Place.

[Sean Fennessey]

In a lonely place.

[Andy Greenwald]

But Sean said it wasn't good enough.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Sean Fennessey]

I didn't say that.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's how I remember it.

[Chris Ryan]

No. You guys are turning at each other.

[Bill Simmons]

I've been praying for it for two hours.

[Sean Fennessey]

Who in the movie Curse Henry Hansen.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come back to me.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Hell, Golland.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like crow has been minimized. We have not talked about.

[Sean Fennessey]

You might be right.

[Bill Simmons]

Crowe is the answer.

[Andy Greenwald]

Kind of won this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Crowe wins the movie because it sets up 10 years of Russell Crowe being one of the biggest stars we have and a few. It has to start with this.

[Andy Greenwald]

It still matters as little as it happens, where it's like, you go to a movie and you don't really know this person. You leave the movie only talking about this person and being like, oh, this is a new.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a breakout. This is.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

What are we going to do with this next? How are we going to see him next? Who's going to harness this rage in this surprisingly modest frame?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he needs it for the IMDb, like, just a collage of work. This is a good one to throw in there. And then he's got Gladiator. And of course, everything peaks with, I just. I just have Beautiful Mind.

[Chris Ryan]

The writers just keeps going, and they made a great script out of it.

[Bill Simmons]

That's fair. All right, here we go. Producer Craig, what do you got?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't want to get crushed for this.

[Chris Ryan]

You didn't like it?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Good.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I liked it. I didn't love it, and I do. It's always tough. Every time I listen to you guys, by the end of it, I'm like, wow, maybe that was way better than I thought. But in the moment, I thought the lead three actors were great. I thought the story was really interesting. I don't know. It felt just like a little cheesy to me. And the dial, I had trouble with a lot of the dialogue. And I don't know if it's just great actors, tough dialogue, or if that is kind of the style of the noir 50s world they're building, and that's the way it's supposed to be. But when it wasn't Pierce or Russell Crowe or Spacey, and it was like the DeVito or the Kim Basinger mixed in with some of the dialogue, I had trouble kind of like fully getting my hands dirty with it.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when you're on Steeler's mock drafts.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, I was locked in the whole time. I pay attention a couple.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like. There are a couple lines that, like, are a little clunkier than I remember them being. Like when. When Exley's trying to get Jack to go, and Jack's like, are you ready to pay the consequences? Which I don't think is something you say or do, but.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And then I started, you know, after I watched the movie, I was reading some stuff, and then I was like, oh, wow, this is. Library of Congress is saving this movie, preserving this film. And everyone's like, greatest movie ever made. And I was like, oh, maybe I'm missing something. I need to watch it again.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I see what he's saying. I think it's a second One I think the second time when you don't, you're not so worried about following every single thing that's happening and you're just watching it for the actors and the choices. It's a different movie.

[Chris Ryan]

But not only is it a 30 year old movie, but the lexicon of the film is 75 years ago. So it's basically a western to you.

[Andy Greenwald]

My thing when I saw the movie, I was relatively film illiterate of old movies and I hadn't seen the noirs that it was influenced by. And so my relationship with this movie has deepened because of what it sent me back to.

[Chris Ryan]

That was probably how I felt about Chinatown when I saw it, where I was like, this is so incredible. And then you go back and watch 40s and 50s movies and you're like, whoa. The style of the acting and the style of the performance.

[Bill Simmons]

One thing that's noteworthy is a lot of people have tried and failed to make movies like this.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Gangster Squad.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this is one of the high degree of difficulty. Oh, I could see what they were going for, but that just didn't work. Or they cast the wrong person or they didn't have the feel for it. There's only a couple that have actually made.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or it tried to be about too much. Like this is going to the TV point. Like the smartest decision they made was the one that was harshest maybe for Elroy Superheads, which is if it's not about these three guys and their journey with this one case, it's not in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

What was that one Affleck made? It was in LA, but it was in the mid 2010s.

[Sean Fennessey]

They lived by the gangster movie Hollywood.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm talking about it was set in they Live by Night.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, Live by Night.

[Bill Simmons]

Live by Night.

[Chris Ryan]

Live by Night.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's an example of like when you go way back and you're really

[Chris Ryan]

going for it in the 30s for.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good book.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Affleck. I don't know if that movie totally worked, but.

[Sean Fennessey]

But Hollywoodland would actually be an interesting double feature with this because that's sort of about a. Similarly, a few Years later in mid late 50s, this is a movie where I fully just copped to having on my 15 year old glasses where I. In 97, you went through some of the movies. Like I made a much longer list of movies, all of which I tried to see or saw in movie theaters that like totally switched me on. I was voraciously consuming Movie Magazine. It was the game, it was cronenberg's. Crash is that year. Contact is that year. Private Parts, the Howard Stern movie. Night Falls on Manhattan, the Lumet movie I Know what yout Did Last Summer. Wag the Dog. We mentioned In N Out. In the Company of Men was a huge movie that year. Event Horizon, Liar Liar, all of those movies. I was really just starting to go crazy at the perfect time where I

[Bill Simmons]

was like, I'm like me in 1984.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good year.

[Bill Simmons]

Same thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why I still support Karate Kid. All those Purple Rain, Inspector Todd. Yeah. 15, I think, is the key movie year. I even saw it happen with my son a little bit. So your brain is just developed enough that you can start actually understanding movies and you think you're smarter than you are.

[Sean Fennessey]

And this movie is a really a good, like, you're a grown up now now movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, exactly Right.

[Chris Ryan]

But it'll be interesting to watch Ben's taste develop because we had video stories and what was in the theaters. Ben has everything that's ever been made, like, at his fingertips.

[Bill Simmons]

When are we gonna have. Maybe Zane can interview Ben. Ben, you fell in love with Kubrick.

[Chris Ryan]

So when you see Project Hail Mary, you're seeing a copy of a copy.

[Bill Simmons]

That's it for CR Month. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

We did it. Five movies and a mailbag. Unbelievable.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks, guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Favorite rewatchables month.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think a lot of bangers. I'm sorry I couldn't close it out strong for you, but it's okay, man. Listen, I had a great time.

[Bill Simmons]

What were the highlights?

[Chris Ryan]

Definitely Matt Reynolds's last meal. The highlights were getting to finally do Sicario and getting a podcast with my guys.

[Sean Fennessey]

You know, what do you think of all this as someone who's known him longer than anybody?

[Chris Ryan]

What does that mean?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, no, I think you should ask that.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Zane.

[Sean Fennessey]

What do you think of the oddest?

[Andy Greenwald]

Every month of my life for the last 30 years has been cr month. So it's just nice to see everyone else catch up.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you guys know each other when this movie came out?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. Yeah. This is our 30th anniversary this year.

[Sean Fennessey]

Aw, that's sweet.

[Bill Simmons]

Unbelievable.

[Andy Greenwald]

But we didn't see this movie together. He was probably at parties 97.

[Chris Ryan]

I was probably going to see our

[Bill Simmons]

who would you hold good son style if they're both hanging on a cliff and you had to save. You only had the strength to save

[Chris Ryan]

one of Greenwald and Shawn.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's a tough question.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've lived full life.

[Bill Simmons]

Save it for April.

[Sean Fennessey]

Fine. I'm younger.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sean has more to give.

[Bill Simmons]

My mom is furious that we didn't do any in the cruisers.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, we could still do it. Are you now holding it hostage for the X CR month or. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Will there be another CR Month?

[Bill Simmons]

I think every March should be CR Month. I don't know why we wouldn't do

[Chris Ryan]

that with March Madness.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's kind of patino and cr month.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm glad that it's a 31 day month. It's not like Women's History month being this is.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

We crammed five booms. One of the reasons we did. I mean, the next. When we do From Hell month, I think that's going to be the peak of the rewatchables. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can you.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you have like a little.

[Bill Simmons]

I was scouting Breakdown.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, fuck. Can we do Perfect Getaway from Hell?

[Bill Simmons]

No. Okay, that's noir.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wait, is Breakdown the Timothy Breakdown from Hell?

[Bill Simmons]

Trucker From Hell.

[Sean Fennessey]

But isn't that Duel?

[Bill Simmons]

No, but Breakdown's different.

[Sean Fennessey]

I mean, I love Breakdown and I love Jason.

[Bill Simmons]

Breakdown's insane.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm a huge fan. Another similar Curtis Hansen style guy, Jonathan Mostow made that one.

[Bill Simmons]

My favorite one that's on the From Hell month schedule is Domestic Disturbance with John Travolta and Vince Vaughn. Evil stepfather.

[Andy Greenwald]

I can't remember this at all.

[Sean Fennessey]

Who's the evil stepfather?

[Bill Simmons]

Vince Vaughn is the evil second husband to Terry Polo. Oh, and John Travolta is the first husband and he thinks something's up with this guy. You guys didn't notice that there's something

[Sean Fennessey]

up with this guy? Is domestic disturbance. Harold Becker?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it is.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that the perfect getaway is from hell. It's the people we meet on vacation from hell.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you're talking about the Steve Zahn one. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I like that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a good one. Good little. You familiar with that one, Andy?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I love. This is like seen under the hood.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a really good twist.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is how it gets made.

[Sean Fennessey]

Don't spoil it.

[Bill Simmons]

Good Hawaii movie.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Get to go on location.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which one is this?

[Chris Ryan]

Perfect Getaway with Steve Zahn, Timothy Oliphant and Milla Jovovich.

[Bill Simmons]

You can go to Hawaii.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We should go to Hawaii, record it there.

[Bill Simmons]

Could we do a live show in

[Chris Ryan]

Hawaii, get methed out?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, sounds great.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's the greatest place on earth, so please.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, it is.

[Bill Simmons]

That sounds awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Crmont. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks, guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks to Cahao and Eduardo as well. And everybody else at the ringer. Great to be in here in the studio. We'll do anytime we have three or less. We're doing my studio.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's just.

[Bill Simmons]

But I thought for four, I think this was good.

[Sean Fennessey]

How did it feel?

[Bill Simmons]

It felt great.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's like riding a bike.

[Bill Simmons]

You can listen to CR in 80 on the watch CR Sean on big Picture and we'll see you in April in the rewatch. Toogood Co. Coffee creamers are made with

[Andy Greenwald]

farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers.

[Bill Simmons]

For a rich, delicious experience, whether you enjoy or coffee hot, cold, bold or

[Andy Greenwald]

frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.