‘Out for Justice’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Summary

The Rewatchables: Episode Summary – ‘Out for Justice’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Released on June 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, hosts Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt dive deep into Steven Seagal's action film "Out for Justice." As part of their ongoing exploration of rewatchable movies, the duo dissects the film’s standout moments, character dynamics, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes, providing both critical analysis and humorous commentary.

Choosing "Out for Justice"

Bill Simmons opens the conversation by expressing enthusiasm for discussing "Out for Justice," highlighting it as part of their trio of Seagal movies. Kyle Brandt emphasizes his long-standing passion for the film, contrasting it with Seagal's other works like "Hard to Kill" and "Under Siege." Brandt notes,

“Because we've done Hard to Kill, which we love, but it's idiotic and we make fun of it. We've done Under Siege, but Seagal is not the star of Under Siege. The set pieces are. And then Tommy Lee Jones steals it at the end. Seagal has no ponytail. He's kind of understated. And then we get to this 'Out for Justice,' and it's just, give me an unmarked and a shotgun. And it is full off the leash Seagal. And it's so fun to watch.”
[03:36]

Character and Plot Analysis

The hosts delve into the protagonist Gino Foligno (Seagal) and the antagonist Richie Forsyth (John Leguizamo). They commend Forsyth's portrayal, describing him as the best part of the movie despite causing tension with Seagal on set.

Bill Simmons reflects on Gino’s character arc:

“So, Gino decides to rescue a dog. He names him Coraggio. Great name for a dog. But it leads to the next rewatchable scene where he has a chase. He's adopted this dog. He's had this dog for 10 minutes. This dog... the dog seems like, all right, I'm a little rattled.”
[41:28]

Meanwhile, Kyle Brandt emphasizes the unpredictability and menace of Richie:

“He's a crack cocaine homicidal maniac. When he kills that lady who's just trying to make a right, that's clearly... that's clearly... I'll do an award now. That's clearly... that's the okay.”
[15:24]

Iconic Scenes and Rewatchable Moments

Pool Hall Fight Scene

One of the most celebrated scenes discussed is the pool hall fight, where Seagal’s character unleashes a brutal assault on multiple opponents using improvised weapons.

Kyle Brandt lauds the scene:

“It's my most rewatchable scene in the history of cinema. It's my favorite scene ever.”
[44:11]

Bill Simmons adds:

“It just goes completely wrong. And we let it happen.”
[104:13]

This scene exemplifies Seagal's unyielding action style, with meticulous attention to fight choreography, such as wrapping a cue ball in a towel to create makeshift weapons.

Baseball Catch Scene

The baseball catch scene is another highlight, albeit with its share of humorous critiques regarding authenticity.

Bill Simmons points out:

“He just comes off like a huge douchebag. Like, you're the star of the movie. You sure you want to do this?”
[28:05]

Kyle Brandt complements:

“It's a great one. It's a great one.”
[25:44]

Despite the comedic elements, the scene underscores Seagal's character’s strict demeanor and lack of emotional expressiveness.

Seagal's Acting and Off-Screen Persona

The hosts explore Steven Seagal's unique acting style, characterized by his stoicism and never taking a punch, mirroring his on-screen invincibility.

Bill Simmons observes:

“He never lands on what the accent should be. But the first 15 minutes where he, he's basically singing his dialogue is there. Kyle Brand. Who the fuck are you? Why are you doing this?”
[11:16]

They discuss Seagal's alleged off-screen incidents, including a controversial story where Seagal chokes a stunt coordinator, potentially leading to the stuntman losing control of bodily functions. While Seagal denies the incident, the hosts find it hard to dismiss, contemplating its authenticity.

“This, that's less. You know, this isn't some bullshit marked for death, isn't that hard to kill. This is out for justice and we're breaking the rules here. That's why this movie is amazing. It's gritty as shit.”
[16:21]

Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

Bill Simmons shares insights about Seagal's behavior on set, noting his lack of self-awareness and domineering presence, which often overshadowed other actors. Kyle Brandt adds humorously:

“He thinks that was the next version of those films... It just feels like... No, it's not.”
[88:56]

They discuss director John Flynn’s vision, originally intending a more nuanced gangster tale, which shifted to Seagal-centric action, leading to creative compromises like montage scenes to keep the movie under 90 minutes.

Invented Categories and Awards

Throughout the episode, Simmons and Brandt invent humorous categories to critique aspects of the movie:

• Vinnie Chase Award: For the most inept mobsters.
• Butcher's Girlfriend Award: For the weakest link in the film.
• Steven Seagal on Himself Award: For Seagal’s unbelievable anecdotes.
• Hottest Take Award: For unconventional and bold opinions.

These categories add a playful structure to their analysis, allowing them to highlight both strengths and flaws in "Out for Justice."

Memorabilia and Nostalgia

The hosts discuss what memorabilia from the movie they’d want, focusing on iconic props like Seagal’s baseball glove and the beret. They envision owning authentic pieces, such as the cue ball and towel used in the pool hall fight.

“It's part and parcel, coach. How about the towel with the cue ball?”
[99:18]

Casting ‘What Ifs’ and Alternate Scenarios

Exploring alternate casting scenarios, Bill and Kyle speculate on how different actors could have transformed the film:

• Tony Soprano (James Gandolfini): Kyle suggests Seagal would have been a perfect, albeit unconventional, fit for Tony Soprano.
• Paul Sorvino: Recommended for the mob boss role, given his gravitas from films like "Goodfellas."

These discussions highlight how casting could have significantly altered the film’s reception and depth.

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

In wrapping up, the hosts express a mix of admiration and critique for "Out for Justice." They appreciate the film's action sequences and Forsyth's performance while acknowledging its shortcomings in narrative and character development. Their playful banter and inventive categories encapsulate a balanced view, celebrating the movie's cult status while poking fun at its flaws.

Bill Simmons concludes:

“It's Seagal. And now we're going to bring in producer Craig, and I think we have a feeling that he enjoys not only this movie, but this entire genre that we've introduced to him and brought into his life.”
[100:47]

Kyle Brandt adds:

“That's what I want to see more than anything.”
[102:27]

Notable Quotes

• Kyle Brandt: “Richie's the baddest guy in Brooklyn, is wearing a top button silk shirt from Structure in the mall that never becomes untucked.”
  [78:26]

• Bill Simmons: “The key to this movie is he's trying to find Richie and he wants to know if anyone's seen him.”
  [55:30]

• Kyle Brandt: “I really love my Forsythe. He has great scenes in the Rock and the interrogation room with Sean Connery when he throws him the quarter.”
  [33:46]

• Bill Simmons: “He's doing one scene in Spanish that just doesn't make sense in the context. He never lands the accent.”
  [11:16]

Conclusion

This episode of The Rewatchables offers a thorough and entertaining examination of Steven Seagal's "Out for Justice," blending critical analysis with humor and nostalgic appreciation. Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt provide listeners with insightful observations, memorable quotes, and creative frameworks to revisit and enjoy this action classic anew.

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For more episodes and detailed analyses of rewatchable films, visit The Ringer Movies YouTube Channel or the Rewatchables page on The Ringer.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Doom the Dark Ages ID Software presents Doom the Dark Ages. A dark fantasy sci fi shooter that delivers searing combat and over the top visuals in an epic cinematic story worthy of the Doom Slayer's legend. Dominate demon infested battlefields with bone crushing tools of mayhem. Take flight atop the fierce mecha dragon or pummel enemies in a 30 story Atlan mechanical. Stand and fight on Xbox series X&S, PlayStation 5 and PC. Available now. Rated M for mature. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Bill Simmons. Kyle Brandt is here. Great to see you. Hope your off season of the NFL is going fantastic and we've done this will be our third, yes, Steven Seagal movie. It is called out for justice, part of the three word titles. We're also doing Seagal out of Order, which I can't wait to talk about, but it's your favorite of the collection. This is it. This is. If they asked you to a director's commentary of any Steven Seagal movie, this would be it. With no football, did this give you the fuel post draft that you needed to just survive as you headed into the summer?

[Kyle Brandt]

The super bowl was terrible. The Eagles destroyed the Chiefs. This is way, way better. And I got fired up, Bill. I walked around the neighborhood today just hitting people in the face with a cue ball and in a towel. It was awesome. So I'm ready to go right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have a guy named Sticks and a guy named Tattoo with you or no?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, the Sticks guy had Sticks and the tattoo guy was covered in tattoos. That's my crew up here in the burbs. I am so excited to do this movie. This is a big one.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we're going to take a break. We're going to run the trailer and then out for justice is next.

[Kyle Brandt]

Steven Seagal, he can take a compliment. This guy's good, Richie. He can take an insult.

[Bill Simmons]

One of these days your wise mouth.

[Kyle Brandt]

Is gonna get the rest of your body in a whole lot of trouble. He can even take a punch. But what this cop's really best at is taking out the garbage. Steven Seagal out for Justice.

[Bill Simmons]

Rated R. Now playing at a theater near you, this episode of the Rewatchables is presented to you by Amazon Prime. Prime is more than just fast delivery. It's also where you can dive deep into your favorite movie genres with Prime Video and get what you need fast to fuel your obsession. You also, if you watch a movie on Amazon prime, you can click down and see the actors in each scene for a lot of the movies, which is great snacks for movie night. A new book on film theory. It's all there too, on Amazon Prime. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. All right, here we go. Special request by Kyle Brandt. We did not have him on big ass 70s month. It's been a while since we've done a rewatchables. I sent you a list. And every time I send you a list, you just. You swat the list away. By Mutombo. Like to come by Mutombo and you go, let's do out for Justice. Why aren't we doing out for Justice? How have we not done it yet? You've been so passionate about it. It's almost like Tom Cruise. It's your version of Scientology. Why?

[Kyle Brandt]

Because I've been lobbying this for five years. Bill, you and I did our First Rewatchables in 2020. It was teen Wolf. It was Covid. It was all that. And I'm like, after Teen Wolf, I'm like, now that we've done that, how about out for Justice? And five years later, we're still doing it. Because it's my favorite Seagal movie. Because it's the most Seagal of the Seagal movies. And let me just put it in the rewatchables, what we've done. So we've done Hard to Kill, which we love, but it's idiotic and we make fun of it. We've done Under Siege, but Seagal is not the star of Under Siege. The set pieces are. And then Tommy Lee Jones steals it at the end. Seagal has no ponytail. He's kind of understated. And then we get to this out for justice, and it's just, give me an unmarked and a shotgun. And it is full off the leash Seagal. And it's so fun to watch. I'm so happy.

[Bill Simmons]

So we did Hard to Kill because I had been obsessed with that movie since college. When he wakes up out of the five year coma and here's the guy and goes, I'm gonna take you to the bank, the blood bank. And then immediately gets back in incredible shape so he can fight even though he's been in a coma. And I really wanted to talk about that with you. Under Siege is a classic, as you mentioned. I think he's in at 41 minutes. Here's why, Alfred. And I'm so glad you rekindled my Love for this movie. And I watched it twice in the last four days, and I'd seen it a bunch of times on cable. We did Cobra together.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I think is one of the best ones we've ever done. And one of the reasons we enjoyed it so much is it was sliced alone. It was kind of his version of Apex Mountain where it's just like, nobody's saying no to anything. He's just. It's sliced alone. Running amok for an entire action movie. And nobody telling him, like, you shouldn't do that. I don't know if that's a good idea. He's just left to his own devices, running amok. And that's Seagal and Afro Justice. He is out of control. Some of the research for it is fantastic just how out of control he was. He really seems to think he's Italian.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know you couldn't have put it better. It's the Cobra thing was we were like, there's a part where Cobra where he takes piece of pizza out and cuts it with scissors and eats it. And no one was like, sly, that doesn't make any fucking sense. You can't do that. Case in point, you can't roll up to a murder scene as a narcotics cop with a fucking beret and a sleeveless shirt. It doesn't make sense. But no one was like, steve, are you sure you should wear that beret? He said, I like the beret. The beret stays. There's no one who could tell him no. And the reason why, Bill, is because he's fudgeing, cranking out hits right now. He is cranking out number one movies every single time. And it's like, you can't tell him no because everything he says is turning to gold.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the fourth of the Seagal movies, and we have not done above the Law yet. It's looming. Sure. It's not like we're not going to do above the Law, but that was the first one. And that we told the story in the previous cigar pods that he was a martial martial arts instructor from Mike Ovitz, who was the most famous agent in Hollywood. And he somehow decided you should be in a movie. Stallone, Schwarzenegger, all these guys were super duper expensive. It's like, what if we could just create our own version of those guys? Which somehow they did. So he makes above the law in 88, successful. Hard to kill in 90. Mason Storm, successful also. That. Was that the one where we have the intimacy coordinator, right?

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He goes Way over the line on that movie with an actress we've never heard from since. Because she's probably Padded cell.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a. She's just under a series of NDAs with Seagal. He does Mark for Death.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably the weakest of these first five.

[Kyle Brandt]

Number one movie in America. Bill, number one again. Him and Screwface.

[Bill Simmons]

It's all hits hard to kill. Mark for death, both 1990. And at that point, they're like, what's next, Steve?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, whatever you want.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, you know, what's next? For me, I'm fascinated by the Godfather. Italians, Brooklyn. I was a big welcome Back Cotter fan once upon a time. I would like to play Gino Torino and go into that world. And if I can wear a beret and look like Curtis Sliwa on the Guardian Angels. Bonus. And also, nobody can land a punch at me for my fourth straight movie ever.

[Kyle Brandt]

Ever. And understand this movie, what you just described, the stupid shit you just laid out. Number one movie in America, two weeks in a row. And let's remember the context of 91. This is a year we're doing Sounds of The Lambs, Terminator 2, Point Break, Home Alone, City Slicker, Just bangers. Like, cinema is massive. And for two straight weeks, until it was knocked out by Ninja Turtles, this was the number one movie in the world. And it started in Brooklyn with Geno Foligno. And people liked it. People came. The critics fucking hated it. We'll get into it, but people were paying money to see this guy. And I was one of them.

[Bill Simmons]

$14 million budget, made 39.6 million. And then was on cable for the next, I would say, 20 years straight. So probably even more than that. And as you said, the critics hated it. They hated Seagal there. This was already. There's pieces. I think he's hosting SNL right around this time, where he became the most reviled host in SNL history. The arrogance that he has during this movie is. You can't believe it. You can't believe it. Cobra. It's funny because I really thought we peaked Cobra, but we just didn't. He just adopts a dog randomly during the movie. He goes into a pool bar, he fights 15 guys. Nobody lands a punch on him. He's divorced. But then get seemingly just gets his wife back. Over the course of 60 seconds, she.

[Kyle Brandt]

Says one nice thing to him and he goes, we talking reconciliation over here. And then they're back together now. And also, like the Stallone thing with Cobra, he has a lot of skins on the Wall Sly. He's done all of the Rocky and he's done Rambo. It's like, I'm gonna do this crazy thing. Seagal's first acting experience was above the Law. Never any little cameo, never some sitcom walk on. He had never done anything until he was the star of a movie. That's almost unheard of.

[Bill Simmons]

So he plays Nico Descani in Above the Law.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

His first foray into pretending he was Italian when he's just not Italian. Then he's Mason Storm. Great name. He plays Hatcher and Marked for Death.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hatcher.

[Bill Simmons]

And he just couldn't get the Italian out of his system. And he had to be Gino Foligno first of all. Did he come up with that? Was there a spitball session? Did he like the name Gino? Is he a Papa Geno's guy? How do we even get to that point? And why did they think it should rhyme?

[Kyle Brandt]

It's a great question. Gino Toretta was, I think, big at the time, the Miami Hurricanes quarterbacks. I think that could have been an inspiration.

[Bill Simmons]

Why not just name him Geno Toretta?

[Kyle Brandt]

Fine. Gino Toretta would have been a better name. The thing with Gino Foligno is it's a fictional character. You can name him anything you want. You're not married to the name. Of all the options they picked, they went with Gino Foligno. And the Italian thing is so fun in this because, as we've talked about, we've seen Seagal as like, he's Italian here. We've seen him as Japanese. We're going to see him as Native American. He's Russian.

[Bill Simmons]

We're doing that too. In Undeadly Ground. Yeah, we're doing that.

[Kyle Brandt]

And I think in 2025, he's Russian. I think at one point he was also black. So he's done it all. Like they say, Daniel Day is the chameleon, but Seagal will play any ethnicity or race ever. And he is playing the shit out of the Italian here. It's so turned up. It's out of control.

[Bill Simmons]

One of the fun things about how rewatchable this movie is, he really Italians it up for the first 15 minutes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like he. He was in acting class or he was practicing it in front of a mirror. So when this movie kicks up, he's like this. And then about the 45 minute mark, he starts sounding more like Seagal.

[Kyle Brandt]

So true.

[Bill Simmons]

With like a little. And he just. He never lands on what the accent should be. But that first 15 minutes where he he's basically singing his dialogue is there. Kyle Brand. Who the fuck are you? Why are you doing this?

[Kyle Brandt]

It reminds me of the Costner Prince of Thieves, where occasionally he'll just do a scene in British for some reason. But when Seagal is doing it, he's like, his acting coach is like, steve, try to be the most Italian person who ever lived. It's like Roberto Benigni meets Chef Boyardee with, like, Super Mario. Like, it's a Me, a Gino, a. It's so, so much. Take it easy, Steve.

[Bill Simmons]

But he doesn't see my. My theory in this is he watched the f. The first Godfather movie ends of the Baker. When he cut. He. We see him in the beginning. Or that Enzo, the florist, whatever he was. And then he comes in later when the Godfather's been shot.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Michael Corleone is trying to figure out why there's no guards for his dad. And he's like, it's me. It's Enzo. And it just has that Italian thing. And I think Seagal's like, I think that's the accent.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

And he goes, nobody in Brooklyn has an accent this crazy. Like, nobody. And what's funny is in the research, William Forsyth, who's great in this movie, he's the bad guy. Richie Seagal at one point gives him pointers. He's like, I think that your Brooklyn accent, I think it needs some work. Here are my thoughts. And Forsyth's like, my accent needs. Forsyth was from Brooklyn. It was actually how he talked. And he was like, you're giving me pointers at a Brooklyn accent. But that's how reviled Seagal was. He has so much power and sway that one of the stories in the research, that's too good to wait for half ass.

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you got? I love this stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

He. He feels like foresight is stealing the movie from him. And one of the reasons this movie is Only an hour 27 is because there's multiple foresight scenes cut.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, it's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Because Seagal saw some cut of it and was like, I think we need to tone down Forsythe because he's too good. I think. I think he's dialing it up too much. Like, basically like. Like. But basically. So Forsyth has multiple scenes, and you can see it in the trailer and then the commercials, there's extra scenes that they just. They just cut.

[Kyle Brandt]

So can you. I'm trying to think of a comp. Can you imagine? They're shooting the Dark Knight, and Bale goes to Nolan is like. He's stealing the movie. Chris, you got to cut his scenes. It's a bloody Batman movie. Not Joker. Because he was so insecure. Because Ledger was stealing the movie. And that is a perfect Seagal anecdote. This guy that we found who played the villain in my stupid movie is killing it. So he's coming out and he's from Brooklyn. So now I'm insecure and he's gonna make fun of my accent. Get him out. And yet he's the best part of the movie. Richie's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

I've tried to do this with old rewatchables episodes. I told. I talked to Craig. I was like, we've gotta cut out like 20 minutes of Russello in the town. Just cut out a lot of his best parts. He's upstaging me. Like, I can't imagine what kind of E would have to have to. Instead of thinking the villain in this movie is so good, it will make the movie much better. To Seagal immediately being threatened by it. It was like, we got to cut some of these guys scenes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Listen, it's a classic, classic trend. Let's not listen. How badly did Tom Brady want Jimmy Garoppolo off the Patriots? Let's call it what it is. It's. This guy is good. He's probably better looking than me. He's younger than me. Get him the out of here. And he was gone and never heard from in New England again.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the kind of thing that happens so Forsyth. And you can feel it the more you watch this movie. Because there's a 25 minute stretch where Seagull's like, has anyone seen Richie? But we don't have. We're missing like two foresight scenes. And every time it goes to foresight, it's like, I couldn't be more interested. I know this guy's a crack cocaine homicidal maniac. When he kills that lady in the car. Okay, that's clearly. I'll do an award now. That's clearly the okay. Absolutely. That's like, whoa. He just killed this poor lady who's just trying to make a right.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And then we don't see him for 20 minutes.

[Kyle Brandt]

So this is the first R rated movie I ever saw in the theater. I was 12 years old and I went with my dad. And so he kills Bobby and that sucks. And it's really intense. And I'd seen like that before two seconds later when he drags that soccer mom out of the station wagon and blows her head off. I was so disturbed and so scared. And to this day, it's really fucked up to watch. But it's the most important part of the movie because for the rest of the movie, you're terrified of Richie because he's a psychopath and he doesn't care what happens to him. That. That's a classic. Okay, motherfucker. This, that's less. You know, this isn't some bullshit marked for death, isn't that hard to kill. This is out for justice and we're breaking the rules here. That's why this movie is amazing. It's gritty as shit. Let's not forget Bill, the opening frames of the movie are a man beating the shit out of a pregnant woman while Seagal watches. Like it is really, really dark and on the edge. It's not. I'm out of a comb and I have a fake mustache.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, these are all great points. I almost have nothing to add. I do want to. I do want to do a little extra on Seagal, though.

[Kyle Brandt]

Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I was trying to think there in this one. Especially to watch this movie twice in three days is like a real sickness. You could say it's for your job. I could have watched it once and tried to cut corners. Like, I was like, you know what? I kind of want to watch the second time. I don't know what this says about me as a human being. And I don't really feel this way anymore with a lot of people because I think our culture is so self aware now of. At all times. We're just constantly self aware with the. With very few exceptions, like, Stan Van Gundy is not self aware. Like, he'll just, just, just, just talk for three hours during a basketball game. And he's just not, not aware that we're my. Maybe, maybe tone it back.

[Kyle Brandt]

Stan or Jeff, which one's self aware? I feel like Jeff.

[Bill Simmons]

Jeff is self aware. Stan doesn't seem to be self aware enough. Regardless, we had this era of 80s, 90s where you have all these stars who were just not self aware. That's kind of my unintentional comedy sweet spot.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I love it the most. I always felt like one of the things with Arnold, he was always aware, smart. He was always like, this is how I'm perceived. This is what I'm going to dole out. I always felt like this was one of the most interesting things about Mike Tyson, who was, you know, a maniac. But I always felt like he understood how he was being perceived. And then you take Stallone, who loses his mind because he comes too famous. And then over here is Seagal, who is such an egomaniac without the same kind of success, but has no idea that he's a maniac. And that scene, I put it on the rewatchables Twitter feedback when he's just walking through, dude, anyone seen Richie? And the camera's coming close to him. And I don't know how you don't do a second take of that. It's like, this is too over the top, Steve.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

You just come off like a huge douchebag. Like you're the star of the movie. You sure you want to do this? And he's just like, no, run it. I really like it. I like the way that camera looks.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think you're onto something of also why this movie is so fun. I think this is when Seagal landed on the self awareness. This is the. They had a few ramp up movies. This is a full Seagal movie where he's in almost every scene. He's very serious. And I think like, Schwarzenegger was literally a politician. Like he became the governor because he was tactical and smart. Seagal was this martial arts guy who stumbled into a movie career. And I think now is when he's like, I'm a star. Every shot needs to be about me. The. The SNL thing we've talked about a lot, and it's so amazing. The Odenkirk tells this story about Seagal that is so perfect. And Bob Odenkirk's writing at the time, and he's writing a Hans and Franz sketch. Hans and Franz, huge deal at the time. Seagal's gonna be in it. He presents it to Seagal and Seagal says, if I do the sketch, if I have to beat up Hans and Franz at the end of it, and that's Steven Seagal. It's these two morons in stuffed sweatsuits. And it's Dana Carvey and Kevin Nealon. But he's like, I won't do the sketch unless at the end of it I beat them up. And I know we're gonna talk about how Seagal doesn't take hits in these movies. It's all intentional. It's all part of his plan that, like, I always win. And it's just insecurity and ego. And this movie is the apex of.

[Bill Simmons]

It, I think, by the way, that's one of the things. It's not just about movies. Even like in podcasting, you have to be able to sell other people.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

And you win if the. If the episode's good. Or if the podcast is good. And the people that don't understand that usually have bad podcasts or podcasts you don't ultimately want to listen to or go on. Seagal. It's a zero sum game. So the Forsyth thing is so funny because he's threatened because Forsyth might upstage him. Now he's not thinking about, this is actually great for my movie. But it's the same thing with the fights. He's the only action star out of all these movies really ever that is never threatened. The way he basically approaches his career as an action movie star is like Goldberg in the WCW or Ultimate Warrior, where it's, I come out, the crowd goes nuts. I clothesline somebody a couple times. They. They sell everything I do and then I pin them and I never even take a punch. And he. He thought that was his career.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

He. One guy hits him with a stick with a pool cue.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Out of the 15 people. So one time he takes a hit.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know, but I don't know why.

[Bill Simmons]

But why wouldn't he think, like, it's actually better for the fight scenes? Maybe if it looks like I'm in trouble A couple times he's like, I never want to be in trouble. It's a sign of weakness.

[Kyle Brandt]

Especially since there is a money making number one movie in the world template right now. Arnold Sly Van Damme get the shit kicked out of them and they're drooling bloody pulps and then they make a comeback. Seagal said, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. And it's like when you don't have any risk of being hurt, like, what is the. What is the stakes?

[Bill Simmons]

There's.

[Kyle Brandt]

And I can bring this up now, Bill, because now that you've done the Star wars rewatchables, you're like one of. You're like one of ours now. You're like a friend of ours instead of a friend of mine.

[Bill Simmons]

It really won me over. I'm almost. I'm thinking about Empire, dude. But maybe diving into that pretty soon.

[Kyle Brandt]

We could do a side podcast. I would do a podcast about the Star Wars. I was so proud of you guys. It was such a triumph and it had. My favorite thing that happens in the rewatchables universe is when you take fantasy to a part where he's just kind of too uncomfortable and is looking to move past the topic. When you were talking about Chewbacca's balls and shitting and fantasies, like, let's move on, I was like, no, stay with this. I want to talk about Chewbacca taking shits on the Falcon. I want to hear about this. So I loved it. I loved it. But there's this. There's a classic moment with where George Lucas is showing off to Steven Spielberg the new droids that would be in the prequels. And he says to them, yeah, the Jedis will cut through these like butter. And all the fans are like, that's not an enemy. If the Jedis can beat them with zero resistance, there's no stakes. And Seagal kind of has that. He won't even so much as take a punch and then make a comeback. His face is clean after fighting 15 guys. That's him.

[Bill Simmons]

So do you think Chewbacca had an asshole or no?

[Kyle Brandt]

Not only do I think he had one, Bill, it's a great question. I think Chewbacca took disgusting, huge wookie shits. And I'll tell you that because Chewbacca is an eater. Because in episode six, Return of the Jedi, he falls into a trap that the Ewok set where there's meat hanging. He grabs it, they get in the net. And then Han Solo says, always thinking with your stomach. So Chewie likes to eat. And I bet he has destroyed the Millennium Falcon laboratory before. So yes, I think he has all that stuff. And it's a disgusting Wookie dumps that he takes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, listen, if you're going to eat human food, it's somehow leave your body at some point. It's just the law of digestion. Couple more Steven Seagal things that I wrote down.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love this.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's just if you're just talking about like just small pieces, little breadcrumbs that he's. That he spreads through the movie. At one point it says Madon Madonna, which is usually the Italians say Madone. Yeah, yeah, but he does like the Madone. Like he. He mangles that, but feels like he had to do it because he's Italian. There's a baseball dad moment.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, come on. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the most disappointing non film scene, I think, of the 90s. He's got the glove. He's holding it. He's holding it like I. I don't. I don't know what his arms doing, but it's not kind of how you hold it.

[C]

Damn it, Bill, you stole my Flex category.

[Kyle Brandt]

All right, come on, Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, do it, Craig. Do it now. Come on. Just. Just join us right now.

[C]

Okay. My Flex category is the Tom Cruise award for the most valiant attempt to emulate a normal human. And it's Seagal acting like he knows how to play catch with his son. Which has. Which includes the quote, when his son walks out. You got the mitt? I got the ball. You got the bat. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had the Ed Norton reverse dunk award for. Did this movie need to have a random sp scene crammed into it?

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Just take us to the park.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Why does the sun have a bat? Who plays catch with an eight year old where it's like, yeah, take some.

[C]

Cuts like hitting grounders to him. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

They have a baseball. He's just going to be pelting line drives at the crowds. I wanted to see Seagal, Kyle. I wanted to see him throw a baseball so badly that I hadn't seen this movie in a couple of years. And when he got the glove, I was like, I can't remember. Does he have a catch? I was like, I was out of my mind.

[C]

I wanted to ask, you guys, have seen every Seagal movie. Does he play sports in any movie ever?

[Kyle Brandt]

Nah. No, no. Martial arts. Yes. He plays the sport of martial arts. Craig.

[C]

Got it.

[Kyle Brandt]

And listen, the real shame of the murder of Bobby Lupo was not that he was killed in front of his wife and kids, is that it just interrupted us getting to see Steven Frederick Seagal throw a baseball. I have a feeling that Seagal would have made Tom Cruise look like Pedro Martinez. Like we needed to see. See that so bad. You don't go and hit grounders with your son with one baseball. You got to bring a bucket. It's ridiculous, right?

[Bill Simmons]

You need at least 10 baseballs.

[Kyle Brandt]

And the. The itinerary. The. Like the. The. The listing of items that you hit on. Craig, it's. So you've never done this before. Let's see. Baseball, bat, bowl, glove. I had this on unanswered.

[Bill Simmons]

Bring your bat, Bobby.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. You got a bat? I got a bowl. It's baseball. My unanswerable question was, has Steven Seagal ever in his life ever held a baseball in his hand, let alone thrown one? And I don't know what the answer. I think it may be no.

[Bill Simmons]

I love where we've just thrown away all the categories. One of my unanswerable questions is with the greatest scene of the 90s have been. There was a cop softball game, like at the five minute mark. And Seagal's playing short, but he's wearing like his beret and his sleeveless outfit.

[Kyle Brandt]

And he has the ponytail out the back of his little beret.

[Bill Simmons]

Basically the cruise Few Good Men but it's Seagal and Bobby's on the team and a bunch of the cops. And Seagal, of course, would have to hit the game winning grand slam. Of course.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And like pick up his son around third base.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hey, B, B, B. Hey.

[Bill Simmons]

He's pitching. Yeah, he's pitching. He's doing like this crazy underhand thing where they have to cut to the stuntman throwing the ball like it's. It would have been the greatest. Six minutes, Bill.

[Kyle Brandt]

How about when he hits one in the gap and he's running around the bases? He just ran in second like this. And second sliding into home and they're sending cigar. Oh, we need that.

[C]

God, there's just never been a more inauthentic sports scene. And he's not even playing sports in the scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Even the way he's on the phone, just the way he's holding the mitt, it's just clear he had never held a baseball ever in his life.

[C]

I got the ball, you got the bat. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

The glove's too small. He looks like he's in the 1920s playing with like Rogers Hornsby. Like, immediately, he should have been like, I need a bigger glove. This glove's too small. I can barely fit my hand in it. But he. He's never touched a baseball glove. So he doesn't know.

[Kyle Brandt]

No. He's got Shoeless Joe's glove and they're walking out to have a catch. And it's. The whole scene is like. Do you finish your homework? No. All right. Who cares? Let's go play catch. Come on. And he doesn't know what he's doing. His dad never played catch with him. It's so. It's such a great call, Craig. And.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it has. It also has. Craig doesn't have kids yet. He will at some point. I have over, under for. I'm going to say two and a half kids. Over, under for Craig. I would also bet the altar three and a half on FanDuel for plus 150.

[C]

Feels like you have inside info, but.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I bet the alt. But when. When you have kids, they have this scene before they play baseball where.

[Kyle Brandt]

Where.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the kid's name? Bobby?

[Kyle Brandt]

Tony.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, his name's Tony.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony walks by a cigar. He's like, go, let's go get your stuff.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he just kicks him in the ass.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you notice that?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I've never in a million years would just kick my son in the ass as they walk by me. It's like seagal had, like, never been around kid before.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, well, how do I interact? Maybe I'll kick him in the ass.

[Kyle Brandt]

By the way, Bill, he only sees his son one weekend out of the month, per his.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, because he kicks him.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably the courts decided he, you know, it's abusive.

[Kyle Brandt]

It wasn't because he's wrapped up in his job. It's because he actually kicks the child. And that actually kicked him down one weekend. It's a great call.

[Bill Simmons]

I promise you, if you've ever had a little boy. If you kick your little boy in the ass as he walks by you, he would stop and immediately come back with fists. Because that's when little kids have that superpower. They'll punch you right in the balls. Like, they'll. They're ready to go. They just want to fight. So I don't know. It struck me.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's a great shame. If we could. Never mind the Norton dunk. Like, Norton would have been Dominique Wilkins. Like, if we could have seen Seagal make one throw with a baseball. It's all we needed. We didn't get it.

[Bill Simmons]

So the sports movie consultant, Cults Consultancy group that I've always wanted to start. I'd like to cross that with. If we had a time machine and we could take that back into the late 80s, early 90s, and we were on this set, we would talk them into a softball game. I would actually want two scenes. And then, like, with the. Seagal never had, like, a basketball scene, right? No, that would be another one. That would be amazing.

[C]

He's got loops. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. The closest thing is he's beaten people with a baseball bat. But I don't count that. I would want to be in the out for justice universe and take the bullet for Bobby just so they can go and have the game so bad. Just tell me how it was, guys. I'll dive in front of it. I want this game.

[Bill Simmons]

Seagal top five celebrity, all time. You would wanted to see shoot Hoops.

[C]

Number one.

[Bill Simmons]

He's 40 seconds.

[C]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I saw Peter Schrager firing some shots on some set this weekend, I gotta say. Yeah, his jumps out looks so good that Joe House texted me randomly and said, did you see Schrager's jump shot? Yeah, he's a really nice jump shot.

[Kyle Brandt]

Peter is varsity basketball in high school. Like, Peter knows what he's doing. He. And he just asked him. He'll tell you he can play.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he would have been a huge favorite against Seagal.

[C]

Okay.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

We're Going to take a break now. We're going to take a break and then we're going to do more about this movie. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions, big and small. And sometimes you make one you can really stand behind. I did this a few times in my life, especially in the mid 2010s after I left Grantland and ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I still think there's an idea for a company that could really work. And then the ringer. And now we're 10 years later, we're still here. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, come back. We could talk about Seagal all day. We got to talk about our guy Billy Forsyth, please. Who completely upstages Seagal, who was way in this movie, probably 20 extra minutes. And then Seagal complained. But this movie apparently had more plot, more characters, and was like a two plus hour. The writer, director, this guy, John Flynn, who wrote Rolling Thunder, a beloved movie for Sean and Chris, he directed bestseller. He directed Lockup, a movie that we're probably gonna do in the rewatch, was one of the great sports scenes in a non sports movie. And I feel like this was. He was thinking this could be like a discount Godfather 3 type. Like, I'm going to dive into Brooklyn and Italian culture and people who grew up together and one guy's on the wrong side of the tracks and one guy's on the right and then it somehow turns into a Seagal movie. And I don't know what else happened, but I know this. There's two montage scenes in this movie. And the reason they have them is because at some point Warner Brothers decided you got to go under 90 minutes. Because the head of Warner Brothers, Craig Horlbeck, was like, I don't ever want to sit in the movie theater for more than 90 minutes. So they, they either cut movies, cut scenes are made, montage scenes. And that's why we have those two montage scenes. And that's why there's all this William Forsyth footage where it's like, boy, that would have been Cool to see. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen that. And that's the answer.

[Kyle Brandt]

There's actually a scene that's in the montage which is William Forsyth killing John Leguizamo and it's like, shit, that's a scene in the movie. Can we watch that? No. It's five seconds. You barely see Leguizamo's face. But as we've talked about, like, I don't want to see the 2 hour, 11 minute version of this. I really don't. It's awesome how it is. I like the montages. I wish they do more montages now. I just saw the Mission Impossible movie, it was great. Could have used some montages. Like this one. They clean things up quickly and we get in and get out. I like them.

[Bill Simmons]

You wouldn't have gone 2 hours and 50 minutes for the new Mission Impossible movie if you were in charge.

[Kyle Brandt]

No. And I saw that in the theater, like it was 20 years ago. And like the first hour is slow. First hour, and then it gets cooking. But yeah, I could have used a few montage in that first hour.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this movie is half as long as the Mission Impossible movie. Forsyth, I mean, he had a. He had a big role early in his career. Dick Tracy.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Before this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then kind of eventually settled into. He was on cable a lot. He was usually a bad guy. It never 100% happened for him. And I honestly think this is the best he's ever been in a movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's unbelievable. He's terrifying. He's scary. He's totally bought in. And you know this because if you see an interview with William Forsyth, he's like a nice, nerdy guy. He's no, there's no Richie about him. I love my Forsythe. He has great scene in the Rock in the interrogation room with Sean Connery when he throws him the quarter. And then he, like, he's a super badass in that. He had a great. He was like a cool, like, violent butcher in the Boardwalk Empire show on hbo, but classic character actor. And like, I've seen interviews with him where people bill, like to this day, 30 years later, when he's like, at the grocery store, someone will walk out and go, hey, Richie. People know he's Richie. And if I saw Forsyth, I'd be like, hey, it's Richie. I know, do it.

[Bill Simmons]

You would definitely get the picture. And then do the Instagram post with, has anyone seen Richie? Oh, wait, I did. Or whatever.

[Kyle Brandt]

I would go up to him and say, richie, why did you do Bobby Lupo, an asshole.

[Bill Simmons]

Why. Why did he do Bobby Lupo? I watched the movie twice. I still don't.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's a little unclear. I just think they were. They were having sex with the same woman. It's not clear though. And who cares?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there are definitely some. Some scenes missing. So. So on the. What do I have? What else do I have here? Oh, John Flynn. We did. We did the budget. And then the only other thing is, it's disappointing. Honestly, it hurts. Ebert didn't review this.

[Kyle Brandt]

Didn't even review it.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't review it. They did some. That's bullshit. They did some. Some Siskel and Ebert TV show. And you're not going to believe it, but he wasn't a huge fan.

[Kyle Brandt]

Two thumbs down.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. I think he was pretty done with Seagal at this point.

[Kyle Brandt]

Number one movie. Raj. Sorry, the people like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, listen, this wasn't Roger's cup of tea. So that's where we go. All right. Most rewatchable scene.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You mentioned the opening credits where the movie is just clearly saying right away, we're going for a ride.

[Kyle Brandt]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

Look, it's ridiculous. It's like the stereotypical 1970s pimp getting. Getting a little frisky with a hooker. And then Seagal has to come in and literally beat the hell out of him. But it ends with him flipping the guy over into a car. And then you see from the car angle a shot of Seagal peeking in and it freeze frames with the credits. Steven Seagal. It is the most 80s 90s moment of the movie. I gotta say. It's amazing. It's one of the better opening credits things that I could. Gimmicks that I can remember.

[Kyle Brandt]

You laugh, you say, yeah. And it's like you. The pimps, red socks are in the frame and there's just Seagal. Freeze frame. Let's go. I want to watch it again right now. It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's, it's.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's my great, great shot, Gordo. We can do that. That topic right now too, because I. It's the best shot in the movie. I. It makes me so happy.

[Bill Simmons]

No question. Next one I have is. It's the beret scene. Gino sees Bobby's body. He tells Sarge he's gonna hunt the killers down. And he's doing everything as Enzo in the Godfather 1. I'm gonna hunt him down. It's gonna be fine. It's just. And the, the regard that he's held by the rest of the police force, because we see this in 80s movies where it's like, you think you're bigger than the force. You think you're bigger than your badge. You're not playing by the rules.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Everybody in this movie is like, gino's got it. He doesn't play by the rules. Let's let him cook.

[Kyle Brandt]

There's one black and white that comes over and gives him a shotgun. He's like, go get him, Gino. Right? I got him. He's on Gino's team. It's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's just like, no rules apply to Gino. Don't worry about him. Not that we don't have the. Every one of these movies has the cop who's on the other side who's like, I'm watching you, Gino.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This time you're going to have to play by the rules or I'm going to come get you myself. We don't have that guy.

[Kyle Brandt]

You have to. You have Jerry Orbach, the venerable Tony award winning thespian, being like, yeah, I don't know, Gino, maybe you stay out of this one. He's like, fuck that. Give me the shotgun. All right. He doesn't do anything. It's so great. I love that character.

[Bill Simmons]

It would have been funny. If Jerry Orbach is like, gino, you've carte blanche to do whatever you want, but the beret, it's just weird. It's just weird. I just don't.

[Kyle Brandt]

Why are you doing it, Gino? The guys are talking about the beret. It's making everybody uncomfortable. Can I have. I don't want your peace and shield, but give me the beret.

[Bill Simmons]

The guardian angels aren't even cool anymore. I know, Gino, like, just stop.

[Kyle Brandt]

The funny thing is, before that scene even starts, like, how hilarious is it that this movie starts with a dead serious Arthur Miller quote?

[Bill Simmons]

I forgot to mention that I had that for the top.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's such a great jarring way to start this.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm so glad you mentioned that. It starts with an Arthur Miller quote and within two and a half minutes, Seagal is beating up a pimp.

[Kyle Brandt]

Do you think when Arthur Miller was writing Death of a Salesman, he's like, someday Gino Flin know, we'll kill Richie with a corkscrew. I actually heard Arthur Miller did a treatment of the script and he's like, no, no, no, no. You need Richie to kill a guy who's a paraplegic who hasn't had any pussy since 1969. We got to get that guy in there. Like, all right. You're the goat.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

While to the stranger's eye, one street was no different from one another. We all knew where our neighborhood somehow ended. Beyond that, a person was a stranger. And then it says, arthur Miller, playwright, raised in Brooklyn. This movie has high ambitions for 10 seconds. And then it goes straight down. I think Arthur Miller was like, he's just in the movie theater. He's a Seagal guy. And he's like, wait, what the fuck? Why am I being quoted in this?

[Kyle Brandt]

He wanted it disavowed. Because you're right. Ten seconds later, there's a pimp beating up a pregnant woman. Also, we have one. This whole. This entire movie is about Gino and Bobby's friendship and the revenge. We get one scene with Geno and Bobby and it is the worst scene in the movie. It's two people that act like they have never spoken to each other before.

[Bill Simmons]

And Gino's like, I didn't want to change. The worst.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bobby, you kind of seem off. No, I'm fine. Gino, Absolutely. It's like you're talking to someone in a dentist's office. That's like the Geno and Bobby guys can get. Can we get one more take award? Because it's so, so stiff and bad. And that's.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's also funny that Gino would notice anything about another human being. He's like the most conceited, self serving guy.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, oh, man, Bo, Bobby, like, you didn't even know Bobby's sitting next to you.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

In that scene with the beret.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

At some point, for some reason, his soon to be ex wife is in the scene.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

She shows up to check in on Bobby's ex wife.

[Kyle Brandt]

Huh.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they have some. They have like a weird exchange. And Seagal goes, don't worry, Vic. I'll make it to the divorce hearing on time. Okay. It's like a dig.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, why?

[Kyle Brandt]

Petty. Really petty.

[Bill Simmons]

She's petty. Like the. The. The real story is Gino sucks. Sucks as a dad, sucks as a husband, obviously. Terrible best friend. No idea that he had. That his best friend was going through anything. And just a bo. A bow in a china shop sucks.

[Kyle Brandt]

And we got. We got to have some conversations about that actress that plays the wife. That's got to come up later.

[Bill Simmons]

I had her in recasting.

[Kyle Brandt]

I would have thought maybe she might end up there. I got her too.

[Bill Simmons]

So Gino. Gino decides to rescue a dog.

[Kyle Brandt]

All right, let's talk about it. You're talking about Coraggio Correct.

[Bill Simmons]

He names him Coraggio. Great name for a dog. But it leads to the next rewatchable scene where he has a chase. He's adopted this dog. He's had this dog for 10 minutes. This dog. God only knows what's happened to this dog.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, God only knows. Whatever happened to the dog led to the dog in a burlap bag being thrown out of a terrible car. Gino picks the dog up, puts him in the passenger seat, starts talking to the dog. Dog seems like, all right, I'm a little rattled. Gino proceeds to go on a car chase where he's on the side of the road where you're just going up and down like you're on, like, a roller coaster bed. The car is just jumping up and down. We don't see the dog. There's no cuts to the dog. We have no idea. Is the dog throwing up? Is the dog like, can you just throw me back in the street? I was happier in a burlap bag. We don't see the dog for another half hour. The dog's in the car during this car chase. Gino doesn't care.

[Kyle Brandt]

No. Poor Coraggio. Not buckled in. It'd be like having a car seat in the back. Like, nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't see the dog, like, jumping during the bumps.

[Kyle Brandt]

Like, just so great. I didn't even think about that.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he goes into the Italian store and wipes out six guys and breaks two arms. Because at that point, Seagal's like, this is my move. People want it. Yeah, I get. I do. Across, I turn, break a lot of.

[Kyle Brandt]

Wrist, a lot of arm. And as usual in that. In that deli shop, the strategy, when you got numbers on Seagal, is, all right, guys, let's surround them. And then somebody goes, should we all jump at once? And it's like, no, no, no. Let's each take turns sprinting as fast as we can, one by one. It reminds me when the debate was going on of, like, the hundred guys versus the gorilla. And everyone's like, could the humans do it? Not if they go one by one. Those morons. They never just jump him and beat the shit out of him. It's. They take turns in every movie that's script.

[Bill Simmons]

This was how the baseball Furies fell apart against the three Warriors. And the warriors, they caught up to him. The one guy, the weak guy, couldn't run anymore. Probably too many parliaments.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

And they stop, and it's three against seven. But then the baseball Furies tried to have honor with the fight. And they just thought they all had baseball bats. Just like, let's all jump on these guys and beat them to death. No, they went one by one, which was the mistake. I know. Same in the Italian store. And they had weapons, too. They had, like, a machete. Yeah. Lose this guy already.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hang him on a hook. See, Richie's so good in every scene.

[Bill Simmons]

The pool table scene, which is the scene of the movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is. Can we agree this is the most rewatchable scene, or would you have something else?

[Kyle Brandt]

No, no. This is. This is the best scene of Seagal's career I have.

[Bill Simmons]

Look how long my list is of notes that I have.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have a lot of notes, too.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, here's my big picture question.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Eddie Murphy, his star making role in 48 hours. The big scene was the torchy scene.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

When he goes in and, like, wipes out this redneck bar.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think Seagal was influenced by that scene? With this scene?

[Kyle Brandt]

I feel like Seagal doesn't watch movies. He doesn't even know who Eddie Murphy is. The other thing about him on SNL is all the cast members said that all week. He would just kept saying, I've never seen the show before. I don't know the show. And they're like, you don't know what is Saturday Night Live? I don't think he knows who Eddie Murphy is. I don't think he knows Fair.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Officer Big Shot coming to bust my balls. Anyway, this. This launches. Has anyone seen Richie?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Anybody seen Richie?

[Kyle Brandt]

Huh?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna keep coming back till somebody remembers seeing Richie. Which is your favorite line, probably of any movie ever. Non Star Wars.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. It's his. I'll be back. It's the line that is associated with Steven Seagal. And he gets it yelled at him, too. I've read about in public. He'll go. It'll be literally with, like, Vladimir Putin. And some Russian guy goes, anybody's seen Richie? Like, it's all around him. People yell that. This is like, I'm not doing shtick. I'm not exaggerating. I don't think there's a movie scene in history that I enjoy more than I enjoy this scene. You could take any. The Copacabana in Goodfellas, anything in Boogie Nights. All my favorite movies. This start to finish is maybe my favorite movie scene ever made. It's so perfect and so fun and so entertaining. The characters, it's like the slimy bookie, tattoos, slick guy in a jacket. Sticks. Sticks all. And it's like he just takes them one down after another. And the funny thing about Sticks is that Vinnie calls Sticks in, like, Joe, Tori, Colin, and Mariano, like, out of the bowl. He literally snaps his fingers, goes, all right, he's worked his way through the rotation. Sticks. You take him, and then they have a stick fight in the middle of the bar. And I'm just riveted every single time.

[Bill Simmons]

Sticks is the classic. You only have one job, you're in the corner, your name is probably never going to need you. But if we do need you, it's time for Sticks. And then Stick somehow gets beaten. I was thinking about. I'm trying to think if there's a funnier scene in the 90s. It wasn't as funny in the moment as it is now. But, like, when I watch, like, if I watch, like, I think we both really, like, there's something about Mary and has some really funny scenes in it, right? Dumb and Dumber. There's. There's some great comedies in the 90s. Really? Like, oh, man, I love that part. Tommy Boy. Yeah, Tommy Boy still makes me laugh. So I don't think this is funnier than Tommy Boy. And it's probably not in the elite. Elite. Top, top level of comedy, but nothing is funnier than when he goes behind the bar and starts breaking glasses and gets to the. Whose hot dog is this? Yours?

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just the weirdest, craziest ad lib he's ever done in his career. What made him pick up the hot dog and then go, whoa, whose hot dog is this? Is this. It's just a hot dog on a hot dog burner.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know. It's like the actors say, they use the expression explore the space, right? He's just ad libbing there. That's obviously not. He found a hot dog who's hot. He doesn't even. It's not even in a bun. It's the naked wiener. And he's flashing it and then just tosses it at somebody. And then seconds later, it's, who's the boxer here? You got the gloves over here. Pictures. And it's like, you're a tough guy. It's the exchange.

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking when he grabs the hot dog, the director was probably, you know, doing the thing where he's looking through the square and when he grabs the hot dog and he's like, whose hot dog is this? Is this yours? The director is probably, like, looked at the guy next to him, like, the fuck is he doing?

[Kyle Brandt]

Just let him keep going.

[Bill Simmons]

We got to sit down now. Just now. We'll cut it later. We'll cut it later. And then he's like, I fudgeing hate this guy. I'm keeping the hot dog.

[Kyle Brandt]

And I know. And the hot dog. We're talking about it. It's memorable. When I watch it this last time I landed on something that I've never before. This scene reminds me of the Alec Baldwin Glengarry scene. And it's like you have this super slick dark haired guy walk into this room full of kind of losers sitting around, and he just puts them all in their place, one after another. Then they kind of try to fight back and he takes them out at the knees. Like, Ed Harris is the bartender who boxes. And he's basically like a. Anybody s seen R. Richie? Anybody seen Richie? And walks out of there. And it's like that guy just dominated this entire fucking room. What a scene. I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that one guy. There's some great bad guys. You did a good job of laying out all the different. But there's the one guy with the long beard who Seagal knocks out his teeth.

[Kyle Brandt]

Tattoo from Attica. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And when they start looking at each other and the guy goes, there's only two things. There's only two things stopping you. Fear and common sense. I'm like, great line. I know, but kind of. What kind of? It's a borderline. Might be able to use that for your high school yearbook. Just like do that and say, attribute it to tattoos.

[Kyle Brandt]

And at the time, I mean, listen, we, we. There's so many things going on. Right before that line. He is very steadily and quietly taken the cue ball and wrapped it in a bar towel. A move that he's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no better before.

[Kyle Brandt]

And it's the most amazing thing ever. He's beating the shit out of these people with the bar. With the bar towel right across the face. Like, he has definitely done it. And like, God, it's so good. It's so good. And let's not forget, like in the middle of the scene, it comes to 5,000 for that badge right now. And then the place goes nuts. They set a bounty in the middle of the scene and guys just start throwing haymakers. God, it's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, can you come back for a second?

[Kyle Brandt]

Come on, Craig.

[C]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you've produced a lot of these, including a lot of action movies you never saw before. Is there a better action movie trick than wrapping something in a towel? Whether it's soda. Can we just.

[C]

He had the quarters in the sock and Death Wish.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the number one move. Right. Like, if we ever write an action movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody's wrapping something into a sock or a towel. It feels like. I feel like I could take down a bar of, like, 10 guys if I had, like, a cue ball wrapped in a sock. I really do. I feel. It just seems like you immediately have a superpower.

[C]

Yeah. It's like a makeshift nunchuck. And it feels like you can pretty much fashion it out of anything in any room you're in. You can create that type of weapon, which is why it's so great. It's boring to have a sword or a knife, but a cue ball in a towel, quarters in a sock.

[Bill Simmons]

I would think if you had to rank things, you would rack, wrap in a sock. Cue ball is perfect. I don't know what's better than cue ball.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, I'll shout out to the Kubrick Full Metal Jacket. When they haze Private Pile, they put bars of soap in a sock and just smash it with the soap. But I think the cue ball way more painful than. Than the bar of soap because quarters.

[Bill Simmons]

Can, like, jingle around. Maybe they break, all the quarters spill out. Like, you get. You wrap that cue ball in there. I know those things are hard. What would be better than a cue ball?

[C]

I.

[Kyle Brandt]

You could do a glass, but the glass would break. The glass bottle shards. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

The best one we see Tattoo later in the movie. He has a perfect cue ball shaped wound in his forehead from right where that thing caramed off.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just. It's just a gaping hole.

[Kyle Brandt]

There's gangrene.

[Bill Simmons]

All hasn't gone to the ER yet.

[Kyle Brandt]

And my. The nuance of Seagal in the towel is there's this close up where he is getting it really tight, and then he makes it perfect, like, crisp, like a marine folding his sheets. And then just bam. It's. God, it's so cool. I keep saying.

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking that would be a good SNL sketch, and God knows SNL needs to help lately, but it's. It would just be an ER scene where all the guys are in the waiting room in the ER after they've been beaten up by Steven Seagal. One guy's just got a hole in his head, the other guy's missing teeth. It's like, what happened? Gino Torino came into our bar.

[C]

I want a little, like, MacGyver sketch where he has to create weapons out of different rooms.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be great, too. They need to bring him back to be the host again. All right, thanks, Craig. Thanks for the cameo. Seagal cleans out 12 guys in this scene.

[Kyle Brandt]

Also in the middle of the scene, we hear. We hear words like Jad rule and Mama Luke. Like he's doing all this Italian slang that. I don't know what those words mean, but he's all over the place. And he refers to Richie as a chicken. This is Shakespeare.

[C]

Wait, and then. And then, like a minute later, somebody says a swear word. He goes, whoa, whoa, this is no time for profanity.

[Kyle Brandt]

And the swear word is prick. It's like an entry level swear word. It's nothing. That's exactly right.

[C]

A pussy asshole.

[Bill Simmons]

He also does the last guy. There's a phone booth.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Twice.

[Bill Simmons]

He gets him and he gets him and he just shoves him into the phone booth. And it somehow completely incapacitates this guy.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's gone.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I don't know if he got knocked out by the. But the phone hits him in the back of the head. But that guy's just.

[Kyle Brandt]

He unloads two rounds into the ceiling. And Vinnie says, you could have killed somebody upstairs. And he goes, but there ain't nobody upstairs. And you laugh out loud. It's a non stop tour de forcing. Everything about it works when they do.

[Bill Simmons]

Harold Letterman when he's scoring the bar fight and he comes in. Okay, Jim, I had a 10, 7 round for Steven Seagal. He knocked out 12 guys, took a stick to the leg, and that's it. Jim, what's up?

[Kyle Brandt]

I want to get that hot dog, Jim. Thank you. Harold Letterman at ringside. HBO boxing. Yeah, we needed Letterman on the compubox.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, runners up for most rewatchable scene. Oh, by the way, Seagal said that the movie Barbara in the Pool hall was his personal favorite among all the fight scenes he's ever done.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's his only good take. That's the Gall's only good take ever.

[Bill Simmons]

He's watching it with friends. He's like, do you see what I did with the hot dog?

[Kyle Brandt]

That wasn't in the script.

[Bill Simmons]

I saw the hot dog. I was just like, it'd be funny if I did something with the hot dog.

[Kyle Brandt]

And he was probably eating 12 hot dogs when he was watching the movie, too, if you've seen him lately.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, dying is his Fu Manchu. Next we watch, we'll see Gina Gershon's first scene. Great to have her.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's awesome. What's up, Gina?

[Bill Simmons]

The combo of this and cocktail in the same year. It's not an Apex Mountain, but it was for me. Anyway, he says, how you doing, Patty? And she says, I can still get it wet.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hot. Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

That might be the peak exchange we've ever had in an action movie. I can still get it wet.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm guessing. I think I know what she means.

[Kyle Brandt]

Think she's talking about a vagina, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she might be.

[Kyle Brandt]

And then Gino goes, I can't believe you can still eat with that mouth. It's all out of the gates where that can still get it wet is a vile thing to say.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it gets worse. Because after. He's trying to get information about Richie. Yeah, because he's trying to find Richie. By the way, has anyone seen Richie on Text?

[Kyle Brandt]

You.

[Bill Simmons]

You.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bottom line the story of this movie. What was your text? What if you had to tell someone what this mov about? What is it about?

[Bill Simmons]

Let me see.

[Kyle Brandt]

Because you had it very on the nose, very brief and concise. If no one's ever seen out for justice, how would you describe the plot of the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

So I texted you. The key to this movie is he's trying to find Richie and he wants to know if anyone's seen him.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's it. It's all you need to know.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what the IMDb thing should say.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's imperative that he find Richie and he's doing everything he can, including going to his sister and talking about what, the blowjob that she gives. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is the exchange.

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

She. She goes, what do you want? You want me to go give you a little head in the corner and make you forget? And he goes, it's not going to make me forget. You weren't. You were never that good.

[Kyle Brandt]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she goes, go yourself, Gino. Like that. Like, really hit home. But it's not going to make me forget. You were never that good. How does it work, Gino? I'm supposed to give you a little head in the corner. You could forget about the whole thing. It's not going to make me forget, Patty. We're never that good. Yeah, go yourself, Gino.

[Kyle Brandt]

You're under arrest.

[Bill Simmons]

Seagal's a great line. He might have written that himself. Anyway, it's fun to see him with Gina Gershon, but it's even more fun to see him with Cinemax legend Shannon Worry.

[Kyle Brandt]

Talk about it. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

This is her first movie, Shane. And Worry was like if Shannon Tweed was Hulk Hogan in the Skin of Max era.

[Kyle Brandt]

Who she macho?

[Bill Simmons]

No, she's. She's ultimate warrior. She was like, they thought. They thought she could be the champ and Sell out arenas for five, six years. This is her breakout scene. This is her first match. Basically, she's the buxom strip joint waitress.

[Kyle Brandt]

She's the one who. Sagas is the one whose nipples you could dial a phone with. The dialog in this scene is really colorful. And it's, it's. It brings to mind all the workplace things we hear about Seagal. I'm sure it was a ripe spot to work.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I'm sure he loves Shannon Worry. Anyway, I think she has a scene with her where. Where she's getting information. I gotta say, really good acting by her.

[Kyle Brandt]

I thought she did a good job.

[Bill Simmons]

She was excellent.

[Kyle Brandt]

She did a good job.

[Bill Simmons]

I was a little worried because, you know, when you. When you move into the skin and Max catalog in the mid-90s, maybe, maybe not really as concerned with her acting chops, but in this movie she's really going for. She has an accent.

[Kyle Brandt]

She's the small characters in this movie cook. Like the 8 and 9 hitters in this lineup hit. We haven't even gotten a Corrado Soprano yet. Like all. There are people cooking in every role in this movie. No question. You gotta. You gotta hold your own.

[Bill Simmons]

Two more scenes. Richie goes nuts in the bar, which is just Forsyth just cooking.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the final shootout when Seagal just kills everybody. He shoots somebody's leg off, which I think he invented. I don't remember seeing that a movie before, with the shotgun where the guy, the. His basically from his ankle down just comes off his body.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. And his reaction is very funny. He's like, oh.

[Bill Simmons]

For like 20 seconds.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know, it's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Seagal, unfortunately fights William Forsyth and doesn't let Forsyth get even one punch in. Not one annihilates him.

[Kyle Brandt]

But it's. What's funny about that fight scene is. Is Forsythe is Richie. Every single time he gets thrown, he keeps landing next to a new weapon. It's like a rolling pin, a knife, a corkscrew. He gets hit over the head with a frying pan. Like it's like a Bugs Bunny cartoon. It's almost like when Nordberg steps in the bear trap and the wet paint and the wedding cake. He just keeps getting weapons like it's double dragon or something, but none of them work.

[Bill Simmons]

So we have the pool hall for the most rewatchable.

[Kyle Brandt]

My most rewatchable scene in the history of cinema. It's my favorite scene ever. So. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we're taking one more break and then I have an unbelievable brand new category for you.

[Kyle Brandt]

Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know, it's even more impressive than being an expert at movie trivia being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by choosing to bundle home and auto insurance with State Farm. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Dangerous Animals. From the producers of Long Legs comes a new species of serial killer. Tucker, a shark obsessed boat captain, abducts young tourists to feed the ocean predators below. But when rebellious surfer Zephyr finds herself in Tucker's jaws, he may have bitten off more than he can swallow. Hassi Harrison, Josh Houston and Jai Courtney star in Dangerous Animals Only in theaters June 6th. Get tickets now at DangerousAnimals Movie. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In marketing, reaching the right audience is important because you want to reach people who are actually interested in what you're selling. And as a consumer, nothing is more annoying than getting ads for things you don't need or want. Like, if you're the worst cook in your family, those shiny new stainless steel pots and pans probably won't do you any good. You might be interested in some convenient food delivery services though, right? Reaching the right audience is key. So when it comes to B2B marketing, LinkedIn ads should be your first stop. LinkedIn has a network of over 130 million decision makers. They have targeting tools to help make sure you reach the right ones. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills or company revenue. So you can stop wasting your time and budget on the wrong people. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com rewatch that is LinkedIn.com Rewatch terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. All right, rest of the categories. What is the most 1991 thing about this movie for you?

[Kyle Brandt]

Mine's a ringer. This is Bobby Lupo is murdered on the sidewalk in the middle of a very busy city street and in the wide shot and as well as the close ups of this beautiful scene in Brooklyn. But a horrific murder is a giant, giant Joe Montana LA Gear billboard for LA Gear sneakers and it says Unstoppable with Joe Montana throwing a Football. And it's like, this is so perfect. So 1991, this is smiling over Bobby's dead body.

[Bill Simmons]

It's great. I had young Shannon worry and I had the. The winner for me is the early 90s rap songs. All of a sudden, the Beastie Boys come in and it's like, wow. But then there's another one that I. I have it later in my notes, but it was. It just feels very rooted in 1991.

[Kyle Brandt]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

And you hear the first two songs and it's like, oh, anything's possible. We might. It's a little like how King of New York. Same thing where it's just like. It was a really distinct time for music. And the movie actually weirdly captures it for whatever reason. Okay, new category.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Seagal already has a category named after him, and you could argue he should have the Steven Seagal Running Award should be a category as well. The Steven Seagal on Himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. I love I can't believe 380 plus movies that this wasn't a category. Here's the thing, and there's been a ton of stuff about this, and I'm sure you've read and watched a bunch of it, including our guy. Ariel Helwani did an interview with the stunt coordinator during filming. Here's what we know. During the filming of this movie, Seagal allegedly claims that because of his. His training, his martial arts, like his whatever the highest level he had gotten to, that nobody could choke him unconscious. And as the story goes, the stunt coordinator, his name was Gene LaBelle, he was a 10th degree red belt in judo. And somehow this became an argument about whether he could choke Seagal out or not. And Seagal was like, all right, let's do it. He does it. He chokes him out. Not only is it unconscious, but he pees and shits on himself.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Seagal has denied since then the incident ever took place. He has a witness. LaBelle has been like, pretty. Not confirming it, but not denying it either. And then he said in 2012, Sometimes Stephen has a tendency to cheese off the wrong people and you can get hurt doing that. And then this is Ariel's interview with him, actually. He said, well, you're going to confirm this story. And LaBelle said, well, well, if 30 people are watching, let them talk about it. And then another stuntman who was there said a confrontation did happen and that Seagal was trying to get out of the chokehold, swung his forearm into the Crouch and then labelle used a foot sweep to sweep him off the floor. We don't have a direct converse confirmation that he on himself, but honestly, I want to live in a world where he did.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, yeah. I choose to believe. Which to you is more believable, that he got Steve Seagal got choked out and shit on himself or the Richard Gere gerbil thing.

[Bill Simmons]

This by easily, by far.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Richard Gere was doing anything he wanted. I'm sure with any woman, he wanted this.

[Bill Simmons]

I never believed that. I thought the Richard Gere things seemed pretty brazenly. You know, you could just make something up and it spreads. We had a bunch of those from the 70s and early 80s.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This. Something clearly happened. And whether he shit on himself or not, nobody has come forward and said, I believe I. I saw it, I smelled the shit, I cleaned his pants. We haven't gone that far. But nobody has also denied that it happened.

[Kyle Brandt]

I would assume the only way, because he wears black in the whole movie. It's not like he'd be wearing white pants. The only way you could confirm that he in fact defecated in his pants. You just have to go by a smell test. And he clearly did it. I haven't been around someone who himself, I think, since college. So I guess that would be. That would be it.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's bring producer Craig in one more third party. Craig, did you know this story, and what do you want to believe? Hearing it for the first time, he 100% should himself.

[C]

I have not heard this story, but knowing everything I know about Seagal, I mean, you can clearly see why the guy can't lose in any single fight in the movie. And he's just doing the same thing off camera. He can't lose off camera either. This is 100% true.

[Bill Simmons]

So one of my rules when I hear stories like this go on is if the story is so crazy, then it. I default to, how would somebody have made that up? So if you. If you're making this up, we start with, you can't choke me out. And the guy chokes Seagal out for a little bit and whatever. And maybe that's what happened. And then all these other people hate Seagal so much that the story then takes a life of its own and becomes, oh, then he on himself. Then that takes hold. The fact that nobody has denied the story.

[Kyle Brandt]

Correct.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of makes me think it's true.

[C]

Do we know if you can shit yourself when you get choked out? Is that a common symptom?

[Kyle Brandt]

All right, I just Googled. Yeah, I googled while we're talking, and AI says while it's possible, it's not a guaranteed or common occurrence to lose bowel control when someone is choked unconscious. So that's. We're still in the. We don't. Yeah, it's. It's. It says. Also known as being choked out and shitting yourself. It is definitely possible. Possible.

[C]

And with the amount of hot dogs he was slamming.

[Kyle Brandt]

Talk about it. That's right. I would think he had a huge lunch at craft services.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, have you ever. Have you ever been in the room with anybody who passed out from, like, I don't know, drugs, mushrooms, whatever. Sometimes they will pee on themselves.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Your body, I feel like in yourself is. Is a much harder excretion than just you get piss leakage. Like you'd make a full bowel movement in your pants.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because you think, like, it would happen in UFC all the time.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? You're getting choked down. Ufc. You don't just. In your trunks when it happens.

[Kyle Brandt]

They usually. They usually tap before they're unconscious, though.

[C]

That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

True.

[Kyle Brandt]

Craig, see if anybody's ever shit themselves.

[C]

Well, in the NFL, when guys get knocked out, they don't shit themselves.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm gonna say jokes about that.

[Kyle Brandt]

But I can't make them. That's.

[C]

That.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm not. I'm gonna Google if you shit yourself in UFC.

[Bill Simmons]

So Fando odds seagal shit himself. Minus 125.

[C]

I think it might be the underdog, but I'm still taking.

[Bill Simmons]

You think it's underdog? Like 130.

[C]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So if we can find out the exact story, would you bet he did shit on himself or he didn't?

[C]

I really. I want to believe that he did.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. What is it? Life's. Life's too short to bet the under. Like, I. I want to. I'm. I'd be very disappointed if he didn't at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

His intestines were out for justice.

[C]

What an awesome lie to make up and that everybody just immediately believed, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, you know, you hate somebody's guts or that he was hated on a movie set. When this becomes a story that comes out of the set, what's the worst thing to spread about somebody? Nothing.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, thanks, Craig.

[Kyle Brandt]

You're killing it today, Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

New category. I can't wait for more. For more examples in future watchables. What stage the best. Juliana Margulies.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

First. First movies. Looks young and great and very like young person on er. Kind of vibe to her and is one of the best actors in this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Clearly talented. She. She tears up immediately. She's terrified of Richie. Like, you know, she's going places. And she was an ER a few years later and she's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's another would say is the best. Kyle Brandt, the director's thoughts on Steven Seagal.

[Kyle Brandt]

John, what's he got to say?

[Bill Simmons]

I really liked working with Bill Forsyth and Jerry Orbach and all those guys in the car who played the killers. But I didn't get along with Stephen. He was always about an hour late for work and caused a lot of delays. That's his Steven Seagal scouting report.

[Kyle Brandt]

But to say that he's late, that's mild. Like, that's. That's a win for. You're late. A lot of people are late. This is the guy who has way worse stuff said about him.

[Bill Simmons]

What? I had a couple more. What'd you have? For what stage? The best.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's just the cast in general. We've talked about it. It's just Margulies, Uncle June, Vinnie, like, just wonderful actors everywhere. And they don't belong in a piece of action movie, allegedly. Although it is. It's a great movie. So the cast and we've covered the rest.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple more. I like when he says he's killing people like it's free.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Never heard that line before. I enjoyed it.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's not a good line.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that Gino has an awesome relationship with mob boss Don Vittorio.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

They go way back. I know he can just go in there. Everybody's like, hey, Gino. Like, Gino's like, apparently the most powerful person in Brooklyn. Don Vittorio is just sitting around waiting to hang out for him. Him. And then a what stage? The best. You could also say it's a what stage? The worst. In the baseball catch scene, which is a tour de force, he gets a call that his best friend has been murdered.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Could not be less upset. Doesn't even try to act like. Doesn't do the. What? He's just like, okay, Bob is dead.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Talk about. We needed one more take for the scene. This is like leader in the clubhouse.

[Kyle Brandt]

That tells me that that was the one more take. They probably gave it a few times. And then Seagal probably thought it was good and this is the best we're going to get. And then he calls Vicki and tells her the same news. And her reaction is just as bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, yeah, all the.

[Kyle Brandt]

There's amazing actors in this, except for the people in the in the lead and his wife. They're not the best.

[Bill Simmons]

How many times do you think he says, anyone seen Richie? Or some sort of variation that sentence during the movie?

[Kyle Brandt]

I'd say like 10.

[Bill Simmons]

Eight.

[Kyle Brandt]

Eight? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

More. What's age the best? Any movie where a police sergeant says, in an 80s or 90s movie, I'm getting too old for this.

[Kyle Brandt]

Love it.

[Bill Simmons]

Because Jerry Orbach rips it off. It's almost like they were playing the hits. And then I have Jerry orbach's peak from 87. 89. As a what stage? The best. He's in Dirty Dancing.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

A phenomenon of a movie. He's in Crimes and Misdemeanors, a Woody Allen movie that's really good. He's in Someone to Watch Over Me, which we just did on Rewatchables. And he's in Last Exit to Brooklyn.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Another respected drama. So he's like a really respected. Way up there working with good directors. Ridley Scott, Dirty Dancing work with Woody Allen. And during this time, it all leads to 1991, where he does out for justice and Toy Soldiers.

[Kyle Brandt]

Fuck yes. Two Rewatchables.

[Bill Simmons]

He uses his power, his cachet to make the movies that we care about. God bless Jerry Orbach.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's. He does the one for them and then he does the one for himself. I. I found myself watching it the other night and I'm like, God, why is the fuck is Orbach in this? But then you look and it's like, it just clicks. Right after this, he gets Law and Order. Right after this, he's in Beauty and the Beast, which is a massive hit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

And he's old because he did years of theater. He's not slumming it. He just hasn't blown up that big yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Big Kahuna Burger were best use of food and drink. The hot dog. Come on.

[Kyle Brandt]

I was gonna go with the six pack of seltzer he buys from the kid in the cooler.

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty good too. But that has to be the hot dog you had. Great shot, Gordo. You nailed it through the windshield. Kid Cuddy. Pursuit of Happiness. Where best needle drop. Beastie Boys. No sleep for Brooklyn. Right after Gino rescues the puppy.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Or we got Shake the Firm from Cool jt.

[Kyle Brandt]

Shake the Firm. That's. That one's not very good.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's the Brooklyn. And he's not sleeping until he kills Richard Richie. So it's perfect License to ill. Had been out four years at that point, and it's still just. It's an awesome. That's a great needle drop.

[Bill Simmons]

Was there a better title for this movie? John Flynn said that the movie was originally called the Price of Our Blood.

[Kyle Brandt]

Nah, not that.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was the title that Stephen and I wanted. And Warner Brothers said, no, it had to be a three word title like the other Steven Seagal films. And that's how we ended up with.

[Kyle Brandt]

The rule with Seagal is you have to be able to say in the trailer, steven Seagal is for death, for justice on deadly ground, all that. So that doesn't work with the Price of blood.

[Bill Simmons]

Your choice for a flex category, Kyle Brandt.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay, I'm going to go with the the Vinnie Chase award for. Are we sure these guys are really good at their job. Worst mobsters of all time. Pathetic, loser, weak mobsters. Not only do they can't find Richie in their own neighborhood, their only strategy is to keep beating up his brother. Why do they take so much shit from Gino? The boss says to him, geno, we love you, but let us handle this. And he's like, nope. Then the boss just laughs. The capo says, you know, we got to do this our way. And he's like, I don't care. I'm going to kill him. You're never going to change, are you, Gino?

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Kyle Brandt]

And then at the end he sits down with the mob boss and is like, look, I don't like you. I hope you fall off a bridge. They're supposed to kill him at the fucking table right there. These mobsters are such wusses. And they're completely inept as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Richie's running amok, ruining Brooklyn. They do nothing.

[Kyle Brandt]

They can't even control their own sidewalks. So like, they're not even good at being mobsters. They're all well cast, but they're terrible mobsters.

[Bill Simmons]

So if you're like an actual Brooklyn mobster, you probably hate this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

I would think it would be so insane.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have killed Gino. I would have killed Richie. You know, these things happen. It's a great one. Totally agree. The Butcher's girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

[Kyle Brandt]

So go on and wait. I can't wait for this. What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

There's a bunch of obvious ones. There's the one that I feel I don't know if I'm right. And then you might have a different opinion. Everything about Gino's puppy adoption as okay, a dog lover, not a psycho dog lover. I'm not. Not one of those who, you know, I'm not. I'm not a 10 out of 10. But. But I do think there comes a certain response like, my wife found our dog Jesse, who's now 11, on the streets. And, you know, it's a rough first. Rough first couple weeks there for the dog that's been abandoned on the streets. This movie doesn't acknowledge any of this. And as I mentioned earlier, in the first 20 minutes of the adoption, he's in a car chase with the thing bouncing. He goes to buy food. At one point, his homie Italian store. He's like, I'm not buying anything from Jersey. Just immediately gets the puppy. Like the worst dog food possible. Who's watching the puppy? He's a single dad. Who's home. Is there a crate?

[Kyle Brandt]

How many times putting the puppy in the car? Like six times. There must be pissing shit all over that car, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Is the puppy sick? The puppy needs shots. Has the puppy ever had shots? How old is the puppy? Is it a female puppy? Does the dog need to be like Gino Torino? Gina Foligno has no answers for any of these questions.

[Kyle Brandt]

I can sell you.

[Bill Simmons]

I got a dog. Dog.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. You're protective of the dog. I can tell. Like it should be. Well, yeah, I get it. You should be. It's.

[Bill Simmons]

But are you gonna be dog parent or not? Gina? He.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's. It's an interesting device in the movie. And I think it's put in there to make Seagal likable. Because everybody loves dogs. Everybody loves puppies. And when he's not killing people. Oh, look. Seagal is soft and he's got a softer side. And he loves this little dog, and it works. I love little Coragio. He's so cute. But you're right, it's kind of fucked up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just give us a crate. What did you have for the weak link?

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, are we going to talk about recasting parts here? Because I think later. Okay. Seagal's wife is the weakling for me.

[Bill Simmons]

The Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award. I felt like we had to give this out for. Did this movie need a better intimacy coordinator? Yeah, maybe for the Polaroids. And I still don't really understand the Polaroids in general.

[Kyle Brandt]

Polaroids are hot, man. I love those Polar.

[Bill Simmons]

But they're posing, but somebody else is taking the pictures. And it's like, hey, it almost us. Seems like Naked Gun.

[Kyle Brandt]

I was young, I needed the work.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not somebody, like in mid thrust or it's actual people with a third party filming. I don't think.

[Kyle Brandt]

Because now it would be a selfie. But they're Polaroids that are perfectly framed where they're clearly not holding it. Maybe their Polaroid camera had a timer on it. Back in the day, we used to use timers a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a great. That's. That's the answer.

[Kyle Brandt]

And maybe that's what it is. But Bobby and Roxanne and by the way, but Bobby seems like a fucking great time. Like, what a party. Bobby was a maniac.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Kyle Brandt]

Drugs and women. And that women like Bobby would have been fun to party with if you're young. Jesus.

[Bill Simmons]

The only other time I was thinking of better intimacy coordinator is he goes to see the. The dead stripper. Roxanne doesn't realize he's dead, goes in. She's dead in the bed, but naked. Because they clearly were trying to lock down that R rating.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

I wanted an intimacy coordinator for the actress playing the dead stripper. Just because Seagal. You never know. He might be like, what's going on? Hair and just like grabbing like a feel somehow.

[Kyle Brandt]

If anyone. If anyone doesn't know the origin story when we did the Hard to Kill rewatchables, there's a scene with Seagal, Mason Storm and his wife in which in my opinion, Seagal seems to ad lib mouth to breast contact, which you just don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Lines are crossed.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, that's. That's not exploring the space. That's not the hot dog in the bar.

[Bill Simmons]

They're going at it in a. In a real uncomfortable way like that. Yeah. So that was alarming. We were worried for the actress. So that's how that category happened.

[Kyle Brandt]

So that's the award. It's not a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

What saves the worst? We've mentioned so many of them.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there anything left on the. Any meat on the bone left?

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, I mean, listen, obviously Seagal's age. The worst and every single.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we cover that. It's almost like a disclaimer when we do cigar podcast. Just Google the last 20 years a cigar.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's been tough. At best, he's highly problematic. At worst, he's reprehensible human garbage. We've said that. I'll go on a terribly different note. Richie's cruise fashion is so fucking 91. Richie, the baddest guy in Brooklyn, is wearing a top button silk shirt from Structure in the mall that never becomes untucked. He's got his bro in the wind suit like. Like a mall walking mom. That's all. Stuff is just so early 90s. It looks ridiculous for like this crew of. Of psycho badasses we should have had.

[Bill Simmons]

That in the 1991 part.

[Kyle Brandt]

You're right.

[Bill Simmons]

I blew that one. I think that's fair.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

The Ruffalo Hannah Rabbinic Partridge overacting word obviously has to go to Seagal. Unless there's. Anyway, I don't know how anyone beats him. Did you have anyone else?

[Kyle Brandt]

There's only one way to refer to him, but like, like. No. Since 1969, guys is. Is at a thousand out of ten in that wheelchair. He is so worked up. No, Richie, no. He's. He's so nervous the whole time. He's clearly on drugs. They're with him. That guy has 30 seconds of screen time and owns every second of it. And I love that. That line that he says, it always makes me laugh.

[Bill Simmons]

The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hottest take award. Do you have one?

[Kyle Brandt]

I sure do. My hottest take comes in the form of Bill, you and I wondering what life would have been like if Seagal was a great guy who people loved working with and his career continued to flourish. And if that was the case, I think Steven Seagal should have played Tony Soprano. And it's all right there in front of you. David Chase, obviously a fan of this movie. Half the Sopranos call sheet is in this movie. We have a defecto screen test where he does a beautiful scene with Uncle June right there at Corrado's house where tears are shed and emotions are shared. I think he has the physicality. I think he has the unsettling sexual presence of Tony. And you might say, yeah, well, Seagal's not Italian. Who gives a shit? Neither is Marlon Brando. Neither is James Caan. And you might say, yeah, but Tony's the big fat guy. Well, that's coming for Seagal. Don't worry about that. He'll get there. I think he plays Tony, and I think Johnny Sack, who runs the New York Mafia, is played by a great young actor named James Gandolfini. Seagal as Tony Soprano is where his life should have gone.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had a similar. Very good one, by the way. I had a similar one because. So David Caruso finally settles in the CSI Miami much later in life and really leans into the unintentional comedy of David Caruso and kind of owns it.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's great.

[Bill Simmons]

And I just wonder if CSI Brooklyn was sitting there for Steven Seagal in, like, 1999.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, no way. For Seagal. All right.

[Bill Simmons]

For Seagal.

[Kyle Brandt]

How's it look?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so CSI comes out in the mid-90s, right? Then they start doing the spin off ones they do New York. I can't remember how many.

[Kyle Brandt]

New Orleans, Louisiana. All of them. Like they're everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

And part of the key is like you want the unintentional comedy piece. And I just feel like if. If the CSI guy had seen out for justice and be like, hey, is that a crazy idea to do this in Brooklyn with Seagal? But I think Seagal's reputation was so bad. I just don't think anyone's doing a TV show with him. People wanted to get in and out in a 90 minute movie with him and that's it.

[Kyle Brandt]

But he would have been so good at the stupid one liners. You know, like if somebody gets like chopped up by a ceiling fan, I guess he met his biggest fan and won't get food again. Like Seagal would be so good at that.

[Bill Simmons]

He's basically. Which Baldwin was in the end of forgetting. Sarah Marshall, Daniel Baldwin, Kristen Bell. Yeah. Or one of them. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Crime scene. Scene of the crime.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he would. That would have been the entire Seagal Brooklyn thing. New category, Best IND stat padding. I thought of this because it's a movie that also co stars Julian Amarglies, John Leguizamo and Shannon Worry. And if you just put that on an Amazon thing it seems. But meanwhile they're in for a combined like two scenes. I will say with Shannon Worry starts here from 92 to 94. Rips off animal instincts, Body of influence. Mirror images too. In Animal Instincts too, there's two animal instincts, Mirror images too. Not her franchise came in, did that. So those were her next four movies. And then this is another IMD tidbit. Seagal cast Julian and Margulies are claim credit for it.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't like where this is going.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not going to believe this, but she didn't really enjoy working with him.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't like where this is going at all.

[Bill Simmons]

She later said in an interview she regularly saw Seagal working on projects for Warner Brothers when she was doing er. And he would say to her, margulies, come over here and show me some respect. And she says in the interview, he's not someone I keep in contact with.

[Kyle Brandt]

Christ. See, where's Noah Wiley to step in and defend? Where's Eric lasalle? Like somebody needs to stand up for Margulies. That does not surprise me at all.

[Bill Simmons]

I know why they should have taken a crack at or 6.

[Kyle Brandt]

I like the sticks. If Stick was there. The stat padding is a great call because you can put all those names on there. It's like, it makes me think of like Frank Gore is like a top five all time rusher and they count his rushing yards with like the Bills and the Dolphins. I hate that. That's like what we're doing here.

[Bill Simmons]

Best that guy. Word. Uncle Junior's in this Dominic Ch. So is he Dominic Chinese or is he Uncle Junior?

[Kyle Brandt]

No, he's Uncle Junior.

[Bill Simmons]

I think for just about everybody he's Uncle Junior.

[Kyle Brandt]

So I think Uncle Jun.

[Bill Simmons]

And by the way you mentioned this earlier, he's one scene, he's like fucking dinero and Raging Bull in the one scene. He's great. He's as good as like any. The other weird thing is he seems older in this movie than he does in the first season of the Sopranos. Even though it's 10 years earlier there. I don't know how he pulled that up.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's 90 mid-90s right now. Still with us, still performing, like, still doing his thing. It's. It's. I. I love. I mean, Uncle Jun to me is the funniest character in the Sopranos. And it's so weird to see him. He's so serious here and he cries and it's like, what can I do to keep you from killing my son? I want him to fall in the shower and say, sisters cunt and order Bobby around. He's the best. I love June.

[Bill Simmons]

So you said his name was Dominic Chianese?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I think that's how you say it. I'm butchering it. I think he's 94 years old.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm looking this up because I was thinking, I always get mad at this when IMDb, they have the thing where when you click on their IMDb it tells you the four things they're the most known for.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, I want to see them all. I don't want that.

[Bill Simmons]

And I want to see if. If they have this for him because Johnny Ola. Godfather 2 sure. Basically leads to Fredo's death. He's. He's the catalyst. Soprano's Uncle Junior and then I wonder if this is three. So we're gonna find out.

[C]

I have it. His top four is Godfather Part two, Sopranos, Dog Day Afternoon, and then.

[Bill Simmons]

And justice for All. I think that's fair. So for justice doesn't crack it. It's a really strong four. Damn.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, that's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Recasting couch Director city. We do not have any casting what ifs for this movie, by the way. Not a ton of reporting slash journalism about the making of this movie. You'd be shocked to know Recasting couch. Director city. I agree with you on Gino's wife. I had Annabella Shior there. I think perfect time in her career. I think we could have snuck her in. What did you have?

[Kyle Brandt]

I got something I think you might like. I'm looking at a young Mia Sara who Mia. Sarah's real name, Bill, is Mia Sarah Pochiello. And she was born and raised in Brooklyn. And I think it's just sitting right there. I looked it up. She's the exact same age as the actress who plays Vicky in this movie. So in this, in five years, she could go from Ferris Bueller's girlfriend to fucking Gino Foligno's wife. I would have loved to see Sloan Peterson in that role.

[Bill Simmons]

Amazing. Better than mine. I also, I think Paul Sorvino should have been the head of the crime family because he could have done Goodfellas in 90 this movie. 91. And then the guy in the firm in 93. He just could have just kept playing heads of crime families.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Triple crown. I forgot to do D on waiters. I could give you the pimp in the beginning. I can give you Shannon Worry. I can give you Gina Gershon. I can give you sticks. Or I can give you tattoos. Sticks. Sticks. I think Sticks wins. What was Sticks doing? He's just in the back reading the newspaper.

[Kyle Brandt]

So in a. In a jogging suit. Just. He's just there in case there's a stick fight. And if it escalates the stick fight, Vinnie calls him in and he wins the stick fight. But he loses this. Yeah, let's give it to Sticks. I love sticks.

[Bill Simmons]

So do you think Sticks, he had his sticks in like a case. Like how you would carry like. Like Vincent and color money had his case for his pool cue. You think Sticks. There's like, oh, shit, stuff's going down. He opens his case, gets his sticks.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it's like Walter Sobchak with his bowling ball. Like, it's like he goes to the sticks when it's time and he loses. But Sticks getting the. The down waiters in a cast full of Tony and Emmy award winning actors is why we do this. Fucking A, Sticks.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you have a flex category.

[C]

Well, I already did my Tom. Well, I was going to shout out. I love the. Just all the homages to great Italian movies that I think they thought they were honoring when in reality it's just like the cheapest references of all. Like what's his name Dying in front of the fruit. Like the Godfather. There's also a line where Seagal says, like, basically all my life I always wanted to be a gangster. Coming right out of Goodfellas. And then you have too old for this shit. But there's like all these references where I think he thinks this is the next version of those films.

[Bill Simmons]

So this could be an interesting rewatchables category. Most insulting homage to better movies. Check. Yeah. Omar sheet.

[C]

Check.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like a little Goodfellas. It's a little Godfather too. It's like. No, it's actually not.

[C]

Because he tells the story about when he was a kid. He's like, and since that day, I always wanted to be a gangster. And I'm like, this is just Ray Liotta from Goodfellas.

[Kyle Brandt]

God, you're right. And it's invasive. Her name should have been Karen. That's a great one. The calendar with Goodfellas is really interesting. Goodfellas comes out the same year, September 17th. This is 1990. Out for justice was shooting for about a month and a half after Goodfellas came out. Yep. So you got to imagine like, holy shit, Scorsese is killing it. Let's rip off the guy. The guy who's the mobster who's looking for Richie all the time, who keeps meeting up with Gino, has a total Pesci thing going on. The shirt collar, the blow dried hair, like it's. It looks very close.

[Bill Simmons]

Have we got to rip through? We're, we're, we're on pace to be longer than the movie. So I'm going to go faster.

[Kyle Brandt]

Half research, two part out for Justice.

[Bill Simmons]

So he names the German shepherd puppy Coraggio. That's Italian for courage or bravery. Richie was inspired by Gus Farace, a Bonanno family associate. Subject of a manhunt. Eventually caught and killed by a mob hitman. So that's where they got that. The theatrical trailer shows two deleted scenes. Richie shooting inside a clothing store from where he took a new shirt, which is somehow he shirt changes during this. Of course, the day we don't have structure. And then another scene where the police captain tells Gino that his body count is coming up. We also see Richie and the guys break into the house for Gino's wife is trying to find her leaving when the neighbors show up. And some other stuff. Leguizamo, who doesn't interact with Seagal in this movie, but did an executive decision. Not a fan complained after that Skull is an asshole. And he actually hurt him, slamming him against the wall. And then foresight said the same thing, that he got hurt during the fight scene. Yeah. Seagal, much like a wrestler, works. Works rough. It's like why people didn't like Goldberg. And then this is a story again, half assed in your research. This is Shannon Worry telling this story. She wore that outfit with the. The short tight black shirt with the yellow ribbon around her neck. Neck. She said when Seagal walked in, he asked what the is the ribbon for? And she replied, I'm trying to dry your eyes upwards so when you say you're looking at my ribbon and you're really looking at my tits, then I don't have to beat the out of you. And she said from that moment on they really got along because he liked her sense of humor. That's another one where I don't. It's. It's too elaborate to be made up. But the guy's like, I like this. I like the mouth on this one. This is a good one.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Tough one. Apex Mountain. Seagal, maybe it's either this or Under Siege.

[Kyle Brandt]

This leads to Under Siege. It's his next movie and it's. It's Under Siege. It's his biggest movie. So it's. It's probably Under Siege.

[Bill Simmons]

He's going, I think it's Tommy Lee.

[Kyle Brandt]

He gets a sequel.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's that Forsyth. I'm going to say yes. Coming up. Dick Tracy. It's looking great for him at this point. Definitely Gershon. No, I had cocktails. 88. This is 90. I forgot that wasn't the same year. But it's probably later. She's in. She's in some good stuff in the 90s. She's in face off like she did.

[Kyle Brandt]

That movie Bound with Jennifer.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bound is probably a real conversation piece. I love that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Brooklyn as a TV movie location. Must say no mob movies. No. No pool hall fight scenes. Yeah. My attention. I was trying to think of a better one.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have it as Apex Mountain for ad libbed weapons. And that beats a lot of competition from Bourne, the Joker and the Dark Knight. Uses a pencil. I still will go with the cue ball and the towel though.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's another one. Things wrapped in a towel or a blanket or some sort of weapon. I think this might be it. Although Sean Penn and Bad Boys with the.

[C]

The.

[Bill Simmons]

With the sodas and the. That's still in the pillowcases. Pillowcases. Another good weapon.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it is.

[Bill Simmons]

That's really all I have. I mean I could keep going. Any picks?

[Kyle Brandt]

Mount.

[Bill Simmons]

But we don't need to.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruiser Hanks. We.

[Kyle Brandt]

I. I can't Have Cruz doing an Italian accent. I. I actually am going to go Hanks on this, and I know it's hard, but I think in this category, the movie that gets overlooked a lot is Road to Perdition where Hanks kicks ass and has machine guns and kills people in cold blood. It's a. It's a tough role for either of them, but I'll take Hanks over Cruz. I couldn't hear Cruz doing that accent.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Cruz. So Craig's the tiebreaker.

[Kyle Brandt]

Craig, come in the zoom as Gino.

[Bill Simmons]

Stop depriving us.

[C]

Oh, man, I kind of want to abstain. This is one of the hardest.

[Bill Simmons]

You can't.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's a.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't abstain.

[C]

This is a true. Like either scenario is terrible.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[C]

Hanks or Cruz as Gino.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Cruz is much funnier.

[C]

Cruz has the unintentional comedy. Yeah, Hanks is perhaps a little. I was leaning Hanks, but Hanks would be too aware to do this movie. Cruz might be that perfect blend of unaware to pull.

[Bill Simmons]

We're still in the cocktail kind of far away, far and away era of Cruise where he wasn't self aware with. With the stuff he was picking. I think he tries to do an Italian accent.

[Kyle Brandt]

You guys can sit there and hear Cruz say, there ain't nobody upstairs. Like, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

He did an Irish accent in a movie for two hours in the same year.

[Kyle Brandt]

It was rough. But he does wear beret and taps so that there is that for that. If. If Craig says, says Cruz, I'll respect it.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz wins.

[C]

I hate both sides.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, Craig. Scorsese or Spielberg? I'm gonna say Scorsese since they're ripping the movie off.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I just. I wish. I. I wish in. In the Color of Money, there was a part where. Where Paul Newman put a cue ball in one of the towels and just started beating everybody. That was missing from that movie. Yeah, but now you just replace no Sleep till Brooklyn with Paint It Black and it's a Scorsese movie.

[Bill Simmons]

We did a lot of picking nits already. I only have two more. Gino goes and checks out Bobby's desk and finds cocaine, money, and sex Polaroids.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hell, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the biggest cop murder in New York City of the year. Nobody looks at his desk for three.

[Kyle Brandt]

Days and he opens it with a switchblade like they always do. Dumb shit.

[Bill Simmons]

There's just a big bag of cocaine. Oh, he must be dirty. Here's a bag of cocaine. The Polaroids themselves, I just don't understand why they were shot. That way.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep. Timer.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Bobby's widow just keeps a dirty sex Polaroid of her dead husband in her purse. She's carrying that around the grocery store like they didn't want to just put that in a book in the library. Nothing.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm trying to protect them.

[Bill Simmons]

In your purse. The easiest thing to steal from you. That's where you're keeping the Polaroid?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Not good. What?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have any nitpicks?

[Kyle Brandt]

I'll do one quick one. In the back to the baseball scene. You thought we've covered everything. He kicks his son. He's got the glove there. In Steven Seagal's house is a samurai sword. At the eye level of the child. He has a 10 year old child and there's a fucking sword in the hallway. Like when that kid's friends come over, they're gonna kill each other with that thing. You cannot have a sword. If you do, it better be way up on top of a cabinet. It's about 3ft in the main hallway of the house. House. Get out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible dog. Father. Terrible father.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel. Prequel. Prestige tv. All black cast or Untouchable? Untouchable, obviously.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collins were at Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the firm. Any thoughts?

[Kyle Brandt]

We started with an Arthur Miller quote. Arthur Miller's daughter is married to Daniel Day Lewis. That is his son in law. I'd like to see Plainview walk into the bar and say, ladies and gentlemen, if I say I'm looking for Richie, you'll agree I've traveled over half of Brooklyn to be here tonight. This is my son, Tony. We'll keep coming back here till one of you builds a pipeline or remember seeing Richie. I want to see him with the cue ball and the towel and all that. Plainview would fuck those people up.

[Bill Simmons]

That was great. I was really like captivated by that first.

[Kyle Brandt]

We need it.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think Doris Burke probably has to be in this.

[Kyle Brandt]

Who does she see?

[Bill Simmons]

This young man, Richie has just been running amok in Brooklyn. It's like France and Germany in World War II. I don't know. It just feels like we need Doris to set the scene with Richie. Just scene setting these days.

[Kyle Brandt]

We see you Vicky. We see you at home with Tony. I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

We see you Sticks and we see you tattoos.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sticks.

[Bill Simmons]

This young man, Richie, has lost his mind.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm so excited to. Who won the movie because I know it's going to be Sticks at this point. Sticks is sweeping the Oscars.

[Bill Simmons]

Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Forsyth.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, Forsyth. Bess. Supporting. He would have had to beat Jack Palance and City Slickers and two nominees from Bugsy. I think we could at least give him a nomination.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's fair. Probably unanswerable questions. Has anyone seen Richie? They did answer it. But why did Richie kill Bobby? You even when you mentioned it. Well, it's because they have sleep. Sleeping with the same girl, I think. But you don't even. None of us know.

[Kyle Brandt]

Not really. He's on drugs. There was a sex thing. I think he's always hated Bobby since childhood. But it's because he's Richie.

[Bill Simmons]

What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want? This is tough from this movie. I. I'm going with the baseball glove that Seagal uses that he puts on his hand. A game. Movie game, movie set game. Worn Seagal baseball glove. Because it's the only time his hand has ever gone into one that he.

[Kyle Brandt]

That he holds his hand like Kuado from Total Recall. Like backwards. All right, listen, this. This is tougher than Cruiser Hank. I either want the beret or I want the towel with the cue ball.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, oh, the beret is a good one. That. That's probably the answer.

[Kyle Brandt]

I like the bar towel so much, I'll be like, this is the actual cue ball that he hits tattoos in the face with. I'm gonna go.

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe it's the cue ball, but.

[Kyle Brandt]

I need the towel as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, cue ball with the towel. Okay.

[Kyle Brandt]

I like it. It's part and parcel coach.

[Bill Simmons]

Finstock award. Best life lesson.

[Kyle Brandt]

We got.

[Bill Simmons]

Just tell Gino if you saw Richie. Save us all a lot of time.

[Kyle Brandt]

If you've seen Richie. Will you tell Gino, please?

[Bill Simmons]

Just tell him. He's asking. He's been asking around. Just tell him you saw Richie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Why Richie did Bobby Lupo tell him that too.

[Bill Simmons]

He's helping me info. He's gonna find out. He's Gino. What do you have for best double feature choice?

[Kyle Brandt]

The one that came before this. Marked for death and Geno or Geno fighting Hatcher, fighting Screwface. This. The slogan is he's a good cop in a bad mood. Which took three seconds to think of. I like Mark for death. What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

I think Hard to kill. Yeah, it's excellent because you can watch him with the normal accent and him trying to do a tight. Who won the movie? It's hard not to give it to our guy. Seagal.

[Kyle Brandt]

It led to Under Siege, and he was another number one movie. And you can't take your eyes off him. I think we. It's fun to say this at the end, we make fun of him, but in like, three or four movies, I really like watching them. And I'll watch those movies until the day that I die. And so I thank him for that, for all his faults.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Seagal. And now we're going to bring in producer Craig, and I think we have a feeling that he enjoys not only this movie, but this entire genre that we've introduced to him and brought into his life. Craig, your thoughts?

[C]

I really have fallen in love with these movies. It's some of Seagal's best work, I have to say. And it's usually it's because it's trying the hardest to make him seem cool, which I think directly correlates with how enjoyable the movie is. He's really the only movie star that you could more easily convince somebody who's never heard of him that he is an adult film star acting in a porn parody of a real movie than actually acting in a legit Hollywood film. Yeah, he's like. It's like a Truman show experiment with Seagal. Like, this whole thing of, like, can we convince a random guy that he's a good actor and an action star while just making, like, the worst movies possible.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[C]

I love it. I also think the stick fighting is legitimately good.

[Kyle Brandt]

It is.

[C]

We make. We joke about sticks. I thought that back and forth was legit. Well done. Action.

[Kyle Brandt]

The people are going to freak out. The guy who plays sticks has a deep, deep martial arts background and is considered a legend in those circles. Like, that's not just some actor.

[C]

You can tell both of them that's.

[Kyle Brandt]

A real guy guy.

[C]

Yeah, they were really going at it. That was impressive.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's another case for Cruz vs. Hanks. For Cruz, because I think Cruz would have spent three, four, five months trying to figure out the stick fight. Yeah, I don't think Hanks puts in that kind of time.

[C]

I also love that not many movies like immediately as the second the movie ends, the credits are just back to cool shots of Steven Seagal, which, like, that would be like if the second Mission Impossible ended. It's just like back to, like, earlier scenes from the movie of Tom Cruise running at both punching people, which is just trying to jam as much Seagal into the movie as possible. So they had to fit him into the credits.

[Kyle Brandt]

I wish Craig there was a post Credit scene of him just hitting jacks with his son at some local baseball field. That's what I want to see more than anything.

[C]

Batter's cage. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, we really fucked up not bringing that post credit scene up because it immediately comes in and the first thing we see is him running. And of course, every time he runs, it's the worst thing that he does.

[C]

It's him with the beret, the beginning with the pimp. They cut right back to that in the credits empty.

[Bill Simmons]

So I wonder if the director hated him so much that he put that in. And again, Seagal, not self aware, is like, yeah, that's cool. I like that. I like when I'm running. But meanwhile he's running like it's almost like he doesn't have any vertebrae. Like he's. He's like a bobblehead. I don't know what he does with his hands when he runs. Hilarious.

[C]

Can I give a. Like a. Like a. A soft, hottest take?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[C]

I think we need to bring back kind of movie dictators. I think we need to bring back when one person just had kind of complet control, because I think it goes back to what you were saying, Bill, about we've lost the unintentional comedy. We had that because Seagal was just like running the show and he thought he was awesome and what he said goes. And now everything is so market tested now, where when movies are bad, they're watered down bad. There's nothing random about them. You know, it's like, I just watched that movie, the Fountain of Youth with John Krasinski. It's terrible on Apple, but there's nothing. There's no unintentional comedy. Just a bad movie that has been glossed over on the edges. We need to bring back movie dictators who are just like. It is only me and my brain decides what goes in this film. Because then you get gems like this.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so what Craig just said, so if we were all running Apple, we get Jason Momoa and we're like, we want you to be a cop. It's a blank slate. We're going to give you no notes, and we're not going to test the movie after it's done.

[C]

Yeah, that's what I want.

[Bill Simmons]

You do your thing. We trust you. We think you're a thinker and an actor. And then. And it just goes completely wrong. And we let it happen.

[C]

Yeah, we'll give you 30, 40 million dollars and just do whatever you want. And then, you know, our culture has changed so much as like as a society, I can't believe that just 30 years ago, the opening scene with him in the beret and the freeze fame on his face. Like, that's just unbelievable that that that happened. It worked and it made a lot of money. And we wouldn't even get close to allowing something like that.

[Kyle Brandt]

The hot dog wouldn't be in the movie now. It's too stupid because some focus group would have said it doesn't work. You're right. Okay, I miss.

[Bill Simmons]

The closest we have now is like ESPN hiring Schrager and then having people on a split screen not selling his jokes. That's the closest we have now to unintentional comedy.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, you don't know how right you are. There's that scene in the movie where Richie says, you got the balls for it. The guy goes, yeah, well now you got the bread. That's how Peter was hired away from Good Morning Football. Someone from ESPN walked in and said, do you want to go and get up with Greenie? He's like, yeah, I got the balls for. Well, now you got the bread. Strager. And I talked to him.

[Bill Simmons]

So sense that we have guys in a split screen just scowling at your takes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Have fun.

[Kyle Brandt]

Stone faced.

[C]

Also, like, can I just say, me having to pay 3.99 for this movie is a joke. That's ridiculous. This movie should be free on a streaming service. Not free, but if I have a subscription to most streaming services and you.

[Kyle Brandt]

Got to pay more, I have to pay for this.

[Bill Simmons]

So I'm going the other way. I. I rented it for 3.99.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And after I rented it, I regretted not buying it. And I think the 399 should have gone to the purchase price on Amazon. So it's like if you want to buy this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

For six more dollars you can take it down completely. Because I think I would have done it, but I didn't want to spend more than the price.

[C]

If we're trying to spread the gospel of Seagal movies, it can't be 399. It's got to be on to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's my question. Like you see those bundles like they have on Fandango and some of these Amazon will have them where it's like five, you know, Apatow movies and you could buy five streaming Aptown movies for like 19.99. You get like super bad and four year old virgin. Why isn't the Seagal five pack out yet? Or seven pack or whatever.

[C]

Every Seagull movie for seven bucks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, for. Yeah, yeah. 14.99. I just get the complete Cigal catalog.

[Kyle Brandt]

You. You know, all you need, like. Like, I think five movies, maybe four, and you're set. You get the whole thing. You don't need a lot. I mean, he's made a hundred direct to dvd. You don't need that. It's not a big collection.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't want anything past 95.

[C]

There's a great app called Just Watch, and you can type in any movie or TV show and it tells you where you can watch it on streaming, where you can rent it, where you can buy it. And I'm always, you know, I always punch it in before ever rewatchable. I was like, you know, I'm assuming I can watch out for justice for free somewhere. Of course. 3.99 on average.

[Kyle Brandt]

3.99, baby.

[Bill Simmons]

I go on Just Watch every week to see if this is the week that Kiss of Death and Eddie and the Cruisers are back on cable. And the answer is always no.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's like the sure thing when they come back, people freak out and they put it up there. You look, you check for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All right. Kyle Brandt, what are you up to all summer?

[Kyle Brandt]

Right now I'm looking at my Google results that say, does the UFC stop a fight if a fighter shits his pants? That's what I'm looking at. I'm still doing Good Morning Football and NFL Network. I'm there. He's come check us out. I'm coaching little league baseball, coaching lacrosse. Just doing my thing up here, Bill, in the east coast suburbs.

[C]

You got your mitt, you got your.

[Kyle Brandt]

Ball and a kick my son in the head.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you're coming. I know we have a couple more on the list, so we'll see you a couple more times this summer. But it was great to see you. Thanks to producer Greg Horbeck as well. And we'll be back on the rewatchables next week. Thank you.