‘Pacific Heights’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

Summary

The Rewatchables: "Pacific Heights" With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

June 30, 2026 | The Ringer Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Rewatchables dives into the 1990 thriller Pacific Heights, starring Michael Keaton, Melanie Griffith, and Matthew Modine. Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt discuss the movie’s unique "tenant from hell" premise, Michael Keaton’s post-Batman turn as a villain, the film’s deep roots in the '90s yuppie era, and its lessons on landlord-tenant law. The conversation is energetic, irreverent, and full of iconic Rewatchables bits and banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Pacific Heights?

• Kyle Brandt reveals longtime interest in covering the film, describing it as "the rare, rare Zillow thriller. You don’t see a lot in that genre. ... It was fully evil Michael Keaton, immediately in the wake of Batman, he decides to do Dark Money Pit. ... I don’t know how big the audience is, but every time it hits for me." (04:37)
• The group notes the movie’s blend of real-estate anxieties, yuppie aspirations, and genuine terror stemming from "systems you can’t navigate" as more haunting than a regular slasher. (08:15)

The "From Hell" Movie Genealogy & Real Estate Law

• Simmons points out its unique niche: "Tenant from Hell. New York Times described it as an eviction thriller, which I think might be the only one of its kind." (06:09)
• Chris Ryan shares a personal story of exploiting lax landlord oversight: "The landlord died. And we just stopped paying rent for like a full year ... it was going to be impossible to get us out." (07:36)
• Kyle Brandt identifies the adult horror: "I’m not afraid of Freddy Krueger ... I’m terrified of systems that I can’t navigate ... HOA, IRS, whatever it is. ... This is our future. It’s an investment, and it’s being taken from them." (08:15)

Michael Keaton: From Batman to Bad Guy

• The hosts marvel at Keaton's career move to play Carter Hayes right after Batman made him a superstar: "What’s your next move? It’s going to be an eviction thriller, actually, with Matthew Modine and Melanie Griffith." (15:13)
• Kyle: "Carter Hayes is Bruce Wayne if he had never gotten the money ... He’s cunning, he’s dashing, he’s brilliant." (16:13)
• The panel debates Keaton's career trajectory and dark roles, with Simmons arguing: "I like him more when he’s like this guy or Jackie Brown." (17:23)

Matthew Modine: The King Doofus of ‘From Hell’ Movies

• Simmons and the group roast Modine’s character Drake Goodman as "the biggest dope in all of these From Hell movies. He might be the number one dumbass." (24:57)
• Chris Ryan: "It’s an amazing movie character to just be like, oh, this guy is bringing so much grief to himself because he can’t control his temper." (25:25)
• Their consensus: Drake’s every decision escalates the crisis, despite Modine’s charming off-kilter leading-man energy.

Melanie Griffith: Miscast but Iconic

• The hosts agree she’s miscast, but it’s part of the film’s oddball charm: "I don’t think she’s the right person ... But I think that’s one of the reasons I like the movie." (20:50)

’90s San Francisco & Yuppie Dreaming

• The cityscape and period detail are celebrated. Bill: "Tremendous San Francisco movie ... that early 90s San Francisco. Great job." (06:14)
• Discussion on yuppie economics: "Think of somebody buying a house for $750,000, but then living month to month ... I’m not sure how that works." (35:46)
• The economics of the house, their financial peril, and what it says about the era are recurring themes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"The rare, rare Zillow thriller. ... I remember it making a big impression on me as a kid despite having no knowledge of real estate law or renters rights. And I think it's because it was fully evil Michael Keaton, immediately in the wake of Batman, he decides to do Dark Money Pit."
— Kyle Brandt (04:37)

"I’m not afraid of Freddy Krueger ... I’m terrified of systems that I can’t navigate ... and I can’t protect my family. ... This is like the great American dream, it’s an investment, and it’s being taken from them. … Very, very scary, in a way that, like, a slasher movie is not."
— Kyle Brandt (08:15)

"Tenant from Hell. New York Times described it as an eviction thriller, which I think might be the only one of its kind. ... I saw this in the theater. It’s a great date movie. It’s both scary and not scary at all."
— Bill Simmons (06:09)

"Carter Hayes is Bruce Wayne if he had never gotten the money. ... He’s cunning, he’s dashing, he’s brilliant. ... There’s a very cheeky moment with that black Porsche where he clicks the thing, and that’s the fucking Batmobile ... That is exactly it."
— Kyle Brandt (16:13)

"I think it’s a miscasting that I actually really enjoy. I don’t think she’s the right person for the movie. ... Even last night, my wife and I were talking about it, we’re like, would these two be together?"
— Bill Simmons (20:50)

Funniest Critique

"Drake Goodman, professional luxury kite maker, one of the dumbest landlords of all time, terrible boyfriend, not excited at all for the pregnancy."
— Bill Simmons (27:30)

On Casual '90s Racism

"Is this a new category for us? The Drake Goodman Award for Most Unexpected Casual Racism?"
— Bill Simmons (46:24)
"Drake Goodman, racist kite maker. That should be a new character in the impressions."
— Chris Ryan (46:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Why Kyle loves this movie, "Zillow thriller" genre discussion (04:37)
• Early 90s San Francisco & yuppie context (06:14, 34:22–36:00)
• Keaton’s post-Batman career move (15:13–17:42)
• Modine’s legacy and his oblivious character (24:57–28:52)
• Melanie Griffith’s unique but miscast energy (20:50–24:05)
• Law and real-estate horror as cinematic tension (08:15, throughout)
• Casual ‘90s racism & character flaws (46:20–47:09)
• Best/Worst Scenes and Set Pieces (52:55–61:33)
• Rewatchable moments & most 1990 thing (62:00–64:03)
• Memorabilia and best needle drop discussions (109:03, 74:35)

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Rewatchables Categories & Awards (Highlights)

Most Rewatchable Scene

• Patty Spies on Carter / Hotel Room Scene:
  Unanimously chosen as the movie’s standout, where Griffith’s character investigates Carter’s alias and origins, filled with tension, a bit of fun, and crucial plot reveals.
  (54:59–55:42)

Best Needle Drop

• Soundgarden's "Hands All Over" during one of Drake's lowest moments (62:02–62:19, 74:35–75:05)

Best/Worst Life Lesson

• “Don’t let the person in. ... Get the fucking money.” — Bill Simmons (109:21)

Weak Link of the Film

• Drake Goodman’s Death Scene & Carter's Endgame:
  Multiple hosts critique the anti-climactic struggle and how Carter’s meticulously evil streak fizzles in the final act.
  (60:31–61:11, 80:45)

Who Won the Movie?

• Michael Keaton, hands down:
  Keaton demonstrates career versatility and delivers an iconic, chilling performance right after becoming a global star as Batman.
  (110:34)

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Unique Segments & Running Gags

• Luxury Kite-Maker Jokes: Drake Goodman’s improbable job fuels recurring jokes.
• From Hell Month: The film is positioned within the “From Hell” subgenre along with Hand That Rocks the Cradle, etc.
• Real Estate & Landlord-Tenant Law: The hosts (especially Bill) reflect on how formative the movie was for their view of renting, leasing, and eviction horror.
• Casting Dream Sequences: What if Cruise or Hanks played Carter Hayes?
• Casual Racism Callouts: Lambasting the era and Goodman’s character for offhand bigotry.

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Closing Thoughts & Legacy

Pacific Heights stands out as an unusually instructive and anxiety-inducing thriller about the perils of property, tenant law, and the limits of yuppie idealism, still incisive and entertaining three decades later. The Rewatchables crew reignites the movie’s legacy by probing its odd wisdom, genre uniqueness, and especially Michael Keaton’s villainous turn.

“I think I learned more about landlord-tenant rights from this movie than any human being in my life.” — Bill Simmons (109:54)

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For Further Listening

Other “From Hell Month” entries discussed:

• Hand That Rocks the Cradle
• Single White Female
• Domestic Disturbance
• The Good Son
• Prospective: Unlawful Entry, A Perfect Getaway, The Fan, Bad Influence

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This summary offers a richly detailed, structured guide through the episode, spotlighting deep insights, sharp critiques, recurring gags, and the moments that make this Rewatchables a must-listen for movie buffs and casual fans alike.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

[Chris Ryan]

My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up. Fees may apply.

[Bill Simmons]

The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where you can find Chris Ryan, the one and only.

[Chris Ryan]

That's me.

[Bill Simmons]

The watch. World Cup. A lot of World cup going on right now for sure. I don't know when this is running, but the World cup will still be going.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, then I am still doing the Adam Friedland show. Colon, the beautiful pod where we talk

[Bill Simmons]

about the World cup, talk about soccer.

[Craig Horback]

Uh huh.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Hopefully by the time people hear this, USA will still be alive. Let's hope we'll be like, holy shit,

[Chris Ryan]

we got through the groups.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle Brandt's here. Hey, Bill, you said you have an announcement. What do you got?

[Kyle Brandt]

I do. I have an announcement that affects us all. I was listening to the mailbag episode of this very podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Kyle Brandt]

And there was a gentleman who had a grievance with you and me, Bill. And then in the wake of that grievance, Chris Ryan had a solution to the grievance. And we even have the clip, if you wouldn't mind. Craig Horback, play the clip to remind the listeners.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you and Kyle Brandt sleep at night knowing you failed to choose the Storm family portrait as the piece of memorabilia you'd keep from Hard to kill in 1990? It's seen early in the movie, right before Felicia Storm is brutally murdered during foreplay with Mason and before their son Sonny escapes. See attached as penance, please do an episode on Deadly Ground. So he sent a picture and this is the Storm. I didn't notice it. I apologize. I know Kyle apologizes as well. This is amazing. I can't believe they did this.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll tell you what you guys should do.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, that's Sharon Stone.

[Chris Ryan]

I think to make up for this, you should get those made into T shirts and wear them the next time you and Kyle.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like Kyle is crazy enough and there's no football right now that he's gonna show up on our rewatchables with the Storm family portrait on there.

[Kyle Brandt]

We appreciate the feedback. We listen. We're always trying to pay attention. Anytime I can make the show better. And ladies and gentlemen, I'm thrilled to tell you we Got him. We got him. We got him. We got Felicia. Rest in peace. We got the unironically named Sunny Storm. And we got Mason Storm, who is mean mugging the artist who is painting a family portrait. You just love to see it. And guys, I got them coming your way too. I'm so thrilled that I have this.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also Mason watching himself commit to foreplay with his wife. You know, like it's. It's a stunning metatextual commentary on family and sexuality in it. And now you have it as a T shirt.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a T shirt.

[Kyle Brandt]

This is a six person pod. Here it is, guys. So they're going to be joining us for Pacific Heights Mason Storms. We talk real estate. We got it.

[Bill Simmons]

So is that supposed to be Sharon Stone?

[Kyle Brandt]

No, it's Felicia Storm. I don't think it's Sharon Stone. I think it's this great looking wife who got shotgunned to death in the first season.

[Bill Simmons]

Unbelievable stuff, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

It's gonna be hard for me to concentrate on the podcast.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know. Imagine.

[Bill Simmons]

And yet Pacific Heights is coming up next. It's the rewatchables presented by FanDuel Predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hmm.

[Bill Simmons]

With FanDuel Predicts. From the opening game to the final whistle, stay locked in. Sign up now. For your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts, go to FanDuel.com predicts to sign up. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. 18 restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predict bonus-offer-terms Foreign. Guys, I don't know if it's from hell month or from hell summer. We'll see. This might run in July. CR for all we know, the USA might be in the final four by the time.

[Chris Ryan]

It could happen, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

But I told Kyle Brandt the premise. I told him some of the movies and he basically looked at me and he said, when Pacific Heights is ready, yes, I'm there. Why? What is it about this movie?

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, Bill, I don't know whether you realize this or not. You referenced this movie over the years on this pod here and there. Just connected to Keaton, connected to this, that it'll come up. And every time you do them, I was like, oh, it'd be great to do a Pacific Heights pod. And then recently you were listing the movies for hell month. And the second you said Pacific Heights, CR goes, ooh, that's the one I want to do. Because of course, he's a man of taste. And I think for Me, it's just the rare, rare Zillow thriller. You don't see a lot in that genre. And I remember it making a big impression on me as a kid, despite having no knowledge of real estate law or renters rights. And I think it's because it was fully evil. Michael Keaton, immediately in the wake of Batman, he decides to do Dark Money Pit. And I just remember thinking, that was so cool. And I loved this movie. And I don't know how big the audience is, but every time it hits for me. And the rewatch was great.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a crazy one that was on cable constantly. When I turned this on to rewatch it, I was like, I kind of don't need to do this. I have this movie committed to memory. I remember so many nuances of Keaton's performance. Specifically, who's kind of in this movie, like Hannibal Lecter.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you going to. Were you going to play with a razor blade during this pot or no. Just kind of move it around ominously.

[Chris Ryan]

Roaches out in the house. But, you know, but you know, this one has been kind of lost to history a little bit. I don't even know. It goes in and out of streaming services. It's not constantly on. I don't think it's had any kind of like critical reevaluation. But it is a rollicking, you know, what is it, 100 minute long thrill ride?

[Bill Simmons]

Tenant from Hell. New York Times described it as an eviction thriller.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I think might be the only one of its kind. I saw this in the theater. It's a great date movie. It's both scary and not scary at all. I watched it with my wife this weekend. She loved it. It's incredibly fun to make fun of Drake Goodman, played by Matthew Modine, who we'll get into with a lot of thoughts. But some stuff I like. Tremendous San Francisco movie. We talked about this during the Basic Instinct pod. This, like early 90s San Francisco. Great job. See Alcatraz at one point.

[Chris Ryan]

It's Potoro Hill. Is that what it is?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it Potoro or Proteiro?

[Bill Simmons]

It's Potrero Hill.

[Chris Ryan]

Potrero, My God.

[Bill Simmons]

The corner of 19th and Texas. So it's not in Pacific Heights. But great San Francisco movie. It's right as this from hell thing is taken off. We talked about the Peaks 92, but Fatal Attraction lays the tea leaves for something like this. And then as Kyle pointed out, kind of a tremendous. I learned something movie. I didn't know anything about tenant rights, evictions. What the laws were what I could get away with when I was a tenant someday. Once you're in, you're in, man. This is like the main this of the movie. Did they take money from you deposit? Nope. Well, you're still in.

[Kyle Brandt]

You're good.

[Bill Simmons]

Knock yourself out.

[Chris Ryan]

I think California has more lenient tenant rights than other states. But I did later in my life, like when I was in my late teens, early 20s, I lived in a house in Boston where the landlord died. And we just stopped paying rent.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

For like a full year. And then the widow was like, what's up with you guys? Like, you haven't paid rent in a year. And we were like, well, nobody asked, you know, and. But it was like there was. There was a whole process where it was like it was going to be impossible to get us out.

[Bill Simmons]

And he.

[Kyle Brandt]

And that widow was bankrupted because these brat kids didn't pay her dead husband's rent.

[Chris Ryan]

Jesus.

[Kyle Brandt]

Just. Just skating. No big deal. That's like, better than illegal cable. That's incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Really.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, free rent to that point, though. Like, what? I watched it now as an adult, what freaks me out is, like, I'm not afraid of Freddy Krueger. I'm not afraid of going in a dark basement. I'm terrified of systems that I can't navigate. And that the teeth of bureaucracy sink in, whether it's hoa, irs, whatever it is, getting its teeth into me. And I can't protect my family. Especially since in this movie, the couple, they throw it all in on this house like the great American dream. This is our future. It's an investment and it's being taken from them. Really relatable and very, very scary in a way that, like, a slasher movie is not.

[Bill Simmons]

And also, there's very few movies that shape your perspective completely. You could be on the Carter Hayes side, or you could be on the Modine and Melanie Griffith side of people

[Chris Ryan]

who are on the Carter Hayes side.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, just like, I don't have enough money to pull off renting this place, but I'm in. And I'm just going to. Like, that's like the worst case scenario, right. This is like a pretty evil guy. But there's been. I remember, like, we. When I lived in Charlestown, we had a really, really huge party and got in trouble with the landlord. And I did kind of be like, you know what? What's he gonna do? I got six months left. least. I learned from Pacific Heights. There's a whole process here. We worked it out with the landlord. But you know, you kind of put the chest out. It's like you think you're better than me.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We can't have a body.

[Kyle Brandt]

And what's nuts is that there's that moment when after Carter Hayes gets beat up and the cop comes and the cop holds like a legal class right there on the sidewalk. And where. Where Drake is like, he's got no right to be here. And the cops, like, when he's in. He's got rights. And he's just schooling Modine. Get a lawyer, kid. That's the crux of the movie. And by the way, Modine, when we get to the. The overacting award, like Modine5, to name it after him.

[Chris Ryan]

And considering the fact that he's going up against Keaton here, who's just like throwing 103, he's Ms. Rowski at the end of this game. Yeah. Like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, a miss Rescue reference.

[Chris Ryan]

I saw him live on Friday night.

[Bill Simmons]

You went to that game? Yeah, I was one hitter.

[Chris Ryan]

It was amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, that's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, when you. What happened after you left the Real World, Chicago, did you have a place to go or do you have to move back home?

[Kyle Brandt]

No, I almost immediately moved to Franklin Avenue at the base of Runyon Canyon, like by the Magic Hotel, like right there. I got an apartment on the.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, I like that.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. So I got my first apartment. Had a roommate. It was $1,400 a month. I paid 700amonth. And I lived there for like a couple of years.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you could have done the Carter Hayes on the Real World.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It'd be like, all right, it's Move out Day. It's like, is it?

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

My stuff's here. Is it Move Out Day?

[Kyle Brandt]

Me and Ana are just going to stay for a while. We've been here for four months. And we're going to get Tanya to stay, too.

[Chris Ryan]

I was.

[Kyle Brandt]

And we're just going to keep finding out what happens. We stop being polite. It's a great idea, Bill.

[Chris Ryan]

I was kind of thinking that, you know, there was the story. Story going around about Carl Anthony Towns when he got traded from the Timberwolves. Was like, they gave me 10 minutes to pack up like nine years of stuff. Yeah. And I was like, there would be a whole new Pacific Heights twist of people moving into athletes houses after they just got traded. And being like, I'm not leaving. But you're like, you know, cats, cat, squatter.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What if cat just never left Minnesota?

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Was like, Nah, I'm good.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Does Jimmy Dolan say like, I know

[Bill Simmons]

the trade legally happened. Craig, do you have a terrible tenant story?

[Craig Horback]

When I lived in Brooklyn a year after college, we had a true slumlord. Like our place was a complete piece of shit. And we eventually stopped paying rent and realized there's nothing this guy can do. So we didn't pay rent for probably the last three months.

[Chris Ryan]

Did he do anything to harass you back?

[Craig Horback]

He threatened us and we said like, we'll get a lawyer. And he never responded. We never saw the guy in person. We went to his office. It was always closed every time we came by. So we just stopped paying.

[Bill Simmons]

This is what happens.

[Craig Horback]

But that's New York. I think in like Florida and Texas, it's a lot harder for the tenant.

[Bill Simmons]

The other weird thing about this movie is I think it's a one on one because you think like there's been 75. We did hand that rocks a cradle. There's been 75 versions of that movie with the nanny comes in, oh, she's going to try to rope in the dad and the mistress from hell. That's. I don't remember another tenant or eviction from hell.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, this could be. I mean, so it would be so fun to remake this for Airbnb now.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, and to be like, oh yeah, you know, because like they've made some Airbnb horror movies. Like the. I think it was the rental from a couple years ago with Dave Franco.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I kind of like that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Me too. And he directed that. But they haven't made a. I Airbnb my. My house during the World cup and now the guy won't leave. Like that's. That's sitting right there and he's with

[Bill Simmons]

seven people from Scotland and they keep

[Chris Ryan]

singing about John McGinn.

[Bill Simmons]

They're just keep singing songs and pouring beer at each other. This was another thing I loved about this movie that for some reason makes me think of Kyle Brandt every time I see this opening credits from the 80s or 90s. It starts out James G. Robinson presents.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know who that is, but it just sounded. There's a certain weight. And I just was disappointed that Mustafa Akai could have been involved.

[Chris Ryan]

I think one of the last Morgan Creek movies, I can't remember. Yeah, Joe Roth was a part of this. This was. Had a lot of hitters. And it's worth saying it's Keaton's first movie after Batman.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's do Keaton.

[Kyle Brandt]

Awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

First movie after Batman. We talked about him in the past. I loved him in the 80s from. From the Letterman appearances. Then Night Shift, which we did with Billy Blaze, Johnny Dangerously, Gung ho Beetlejuice. He's a top five Letterman guest. There's a couple misses in there, a little clean and sober in there. But then Batman in 89. And it was like watching, like, one of your college buddies just become one of the biggest stars in the world. It's like, really? Michael Keaton's gonna be Batman?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's like, the closest thing we would have today would be Pratt.

[Craig Horback]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, but Pratt doesn't have, like a. I saw him on Letterman 100,000 times. Like, it was.

[Bill Simmons]

It'd be like if Peter Schrager became Batman.

[Kyle Brandt]

By the way, Peter Schrager might be Batman. He's in New York. He's right there. He's tough. He's tall.

[Chris Ryan]

Bill, I'm hearing a lot of things from the guys in Gotham. They're very excited about Harvey Dead's chances as Attorney General.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hey, I talked to the Penguin, Bill. His guys love him. They are ready to go to war for him, for Gotham.

[Chris Ryan]

And you know what? The cold weather is not a problem for the Penguin.

[Craig Horback]

We're hearing.

[Bill Simmons]

And I'll tell you another thing. If the Penguin hadn't gone right there, Sean McVay was ready to take him.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm glad you bring up McVay. I haven't mentioned him in 30 seconds. Did you know I'm friends with him? I was at his wedding. He's basically the Riddler in disguise. Peter, you're great.

[Bill Simmons]

We love you.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know you listen.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyway, Batman makes Keaton a massive, massive star. It goes from a, wait, why the fuck is this guy Batman? To. He was actually a great Batman. Because of the mouth.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

The mouth with the mask looked great. He did the job. He pulled it off. What's your next move? It's going to be an eviction thriller, actually, with Matthew Modine and Melanie Griffin.

[Chris Ryan]

So I couldn't find this in the research.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you guys. Because there's a phenomenon of, like, this happened to Jennifer Lawrence when she was in Hunger Games, and then the first thing that comes out is a horror movie that she had shot, like, three years previous. And they're, like, from the star of the Hunger Games. Yeah, I bet she would have paid anything to have that flushed down the toilet. Was Pacific Heights something that he agreed to previously?

[Kyle Brandt]

That was a move.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm pivoting.

[Bill Simmons]

Career man. Career move of. I want to be a little bit evil. But the thing is like, actors love going evil. This is the best part of the movie. You don't want the Modine part. This movie you want. You want the Keaton part, right?

[Craig Horback]

The.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, Chris. The thing is, the same thing happened. Chris Hemsworth in a terrible Red dawn remake came out after he was Thor.

[Craig Horback]

Right.

[Kyle Brandt]

And they brought that out. But listen, I have a take. Carter.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of times, porn, like I didn't realize. I thought, wow, look at this person going at it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Carter Hayes is Bruce Wayne. If he had never gotten the money. And I think it's like Thomas and Martha get killed and he turns to crime. All the money goes to charity. He's cunning, he's dashing, he's brilliant. He likes the blonde women. Let's be honest. There is like a very cheeky moment with that black Porsche where he clicks the thing and that's like. That's the fucking Batmobile, like in the driveway. That is exactly it. He drives that fancy Mercedes at the end. That's like the Wayne family car. If Bruce Wayne had never gotten the money. He's Carter Hayes when he's trying to

[Chris Ryan]

take on that rich widow at the end. He's rolling around, he's got the V neck sweater on. He definitely looks like Bruce Wayne at the golf club.

[Bill Simmons]

I got. I've said this in previous pods and it sounds nuts, but Hanks and Keaton were deadlocked for years and years. They were Mahomes and Josh Allen, basically. And Keaton was winning in 1990. Batman was bigger than anything Hanks did. They were dead even. Probably going for the same parts where you could have flipped them in different movies. And by the time we get to Pacific Heights, this movie was a hit. And Hanks has Bonfire of the Vanities basically the same year. That's a bomb.

[Craig Horback]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

That's his Melanie Griffith.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the next year it flips and Hanks goes on his Hanks run. I think the thing I loved about Keaton is I like him more when he's like this guy or Jackie Brown because he could also be the night shift guy. But you can't be the night shift guy for 20 years. Right? Night shift guy is like a five year shelf life. I liked when there's a little darkness to Keaton.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And I think being part of an ensemble or being part of a larger cast rather than being the only person is helpful for him. Like the paper, he's pretty good in. I know that you don't like that movie, but.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Spotlight.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Spotlight.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good example, you know what happened in Spotlight?

[Chris Ryan]

They do. We cut these guys loose.

[Kyle Brandt]

I missed that.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Living your.

[Kyle Brandt]

Don't you call me lady.

[Chris Ryan]

You know it's underrated. I found this out this weekend because it came up on YouTube. An underrated accent in Spotlight is Tucci.

[Bill Simmons]

What's he doing in that?

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's like Boston. But I maybe went out of state for school.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And came back.

[Bill Simmons]

I went to Tennessee. Came back. We're going to go a lot into some of the interviews Matthew Modeen has given over the years because he's really a one on one and honestly a threat to listen to this podcast and send some angry tweets.

[Chris Ryan]

I just want to say I love Matthew Modine.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Matthew Modin.

[Chris Ryan]

Congratulations on the Knicks. And photos on the Knicks.

[Bill Simmons]

One of my favorite movies, Vision Quest, we love. We already did Vision Quest.

[Craig Horback]

And he's back. Stranger Things. He had a huge run in the back.

[Bill Simmons]

Stranger Things.

[Chris Ryan]

Personally, I'm in on Modine and also this part. He does this part very well.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Well, we're going to get to that. This is what he said.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm going the other way. I don't give a shit what Modine says. When he turns off those utilities and does that victory dance. Cringe, cringe, Modine. You can tweet anything you want.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Come right at me. Modine said about Kyle.

[Chris Ryan]

I've been talking to Modine and he's so excited about some of the Stranger Things spin offs. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Modine said about Michael Keaton in one of the many interviews he's given over the years. Michael is a charming and witty man. So playing that character may have been uncomfortable for him. It was so against type. I'm not sure what he did while not on set. He had just done Batman. It was a ginormous success. So I'd see him on the set and we'd do our work and then he'd disappear like Bruce Wayne. Then Keaton was just in and out. Modine's like, hey, you want to watch the Knicks game tonight? No, no, I'm going to dinner. And that was it. Didn't feel like there was a lot of love in general on this set. But Keaton, after this, it gets a little rocky. Like he does Batman, the second one with Michelle Pfeiffer. And then, I don't know, it gets a little rocky for a couple years, IMDb wise. And then Hanks.

[Kyle Brandt]

Chris, do you like Batman Returns?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not the biggest Burton Batman guy. I think the first one's huge for me. Just because of seeing it in the theater and the event of it all. But I think it just kind of pales in comparison to the normal.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I don't care for it very much. I just don't. The Penguin thing and all that. I just don't think it's very good. And then the Schumacher ones came in and destroyed it. Batman Returns, I don't really like. To your point, Bill. Like, we're talking Apex Mountain left and right. Like, this is like, the definition of it for Keaton.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Melanie Griffith. This is kind of the tail end for her as a leading actress in a movie. We go from Body Double, Something Wild, Working Girl. And then she does Pacific Heights, Bonfire of the Vanities this year. And then that's it.

[Chris Ryan]

She really paid for Bonfire of the Vanities in a way that really tough.

[Bill Simmons]

She was the one. Yeah. And Willis didn't either. De Palma did, though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

This was the last stand for her. And I gotta say, she's miscast in this movie, but I still like that she's in the movie. It's a miscasting that I actually really enjoy. I don't think she's the right person for the movie. And I never really bought her and Modine, But I think that's one of the reasons I like the movie, Kyle. Even last night, my wife and I were talking about it. We're like, would these two be together?

[Chris Ryan]

There's a lot of that makes sense. This is my favorite part about this movie. Sometimes we'll watch these films that are set in the early 90s, up until maybe turn of the century. And you're like, but all of this stuff would be so different now because of technology. But there's something perfect about a horse instructor, a horse riding instructor and a kite maker being like, let's make it work. You want to throw 750 down on a Victorian, you know, Like, I don't know. Like, how would people. People vet each other back then? How long did you date? You know? But, like, they're just two kids, like, to fuck, trying to make it honest, you know? Like, it's just.

[Bill Simmons]

I had this for later. Like, did he feel like the kites were gonna take off in the 90s?

[Chris Ryan]

Dude?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it's like South Korea. It's going nuts right now.

[Kyle Brandt]

Listen. I have it on unanswerable questions. It's like, does he make fucking kites for a living?

[Bill Simmons]

He does. Luxury kite maker.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right now it would be like some douchebag you went to high school with on Facebook. And he's like, bit of personal news. New endeavor. Starting a kite company. Big things coming.

[Chris Ryan]

We're thinking IPO in spring of 28.

[Kyle Brandt]

Early investors, if anyone wants to get into my kite company. So she. She's a horse instructor with a bad knee.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

An equestrian accident we didn't get to see for some reason, even though we got 10 minutes of backstory.

[Chris Ryan]

Michael Tatum's doctor couldn't work.

[Kyle Brandt]

Patty, maybe get an apartment. You're not even married. Like, the big swing for the Victorian. An apartment would be fine. Maybe you guys get the studio.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the other weird thing about the relationship is, like, they. They're filling out the application. It's like marital status. They look at each other, like, single. And it's like they don't want to really get married. But somehow they went all in on this giant Victorian anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she says she's pregnant at one point. And he doesn't even seem that excited. No, he just says, like, congratulations, like, she just got promoted at work. It's like, did your kid do fuckface? I have a lot of Drake Goodman thoughts, but, yeah, Melanie Griffith, she's at that stage with this, where I think she's probably late 20s, real life. But in the movie could be anywhere from 25 to 44. I would have believed any age. Whereas Modine seems pretty young still. Like, he's in Vision Quest five years earlier after this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Also, he goes shirtless a couple of times, and Modine's still absolutely ripped. Like, he looks at his great. He's in Vision Quest shape. Two things about their relationship. They kind of look like brother and sister. And if you know that and watch it, it weird you out. I watched it once a few days ago, and then I did some research, which you probably have billed that like, they weren't necessarily the best friends on set. And I don't think it went that well. And then I watched the movie again, and it really affects it. Knowing that they weren't liking each other at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Felt the same way. I watched it, did the research, watched it the second time, and I'm like, oh, yeah. They. They. Even when she's, like. When they're doing the renovation scene and she's kind of mounting him, and it just felt like, brother. It was like watching the Lannister.

[Chris Ryan]

There was a Game of Thrones electricity when. When Keaton's got the nail gun to her head, a little bit more. More chemistry going on.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of the questions of this movie. She has a more interesting relationship with Keaton, who she's in like, two scenes with.

[Craig Horback]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

But when she's in the scenes of them, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. Now we're going to. I don't know this look. She's iconic in Body Double. She's great in Working Girl. Working Girl and had, you know, a bevy of personal problems. She married Don Johnson two different times. She married Antonio Banderas, and she married Manny from Scarface.

[Chris Ryan]

It's kind of like us returning Four Marriages, the series after all these years.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I feel. I feel like she's like a family member for us. Don Johnson, Steven Bauer and Antonio Darris, three husbands. I'm like, I don't know. I kind of dig her.

[Chris Ryan]

She should be third chair. It would just be like, yep, buried him.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Modine playing Drake Goodman, who, I'll just say this now, I think is the biggest dope in all of these From Hell movies. He might be the number one dumbass. Yeah. Male or female, I think he's the dumbest. Every decision he makes is wrong. He escalates it. At one point, my wife, who is half watching, as always, just went on a tirade on him where it was like. It was almost like you forget you're watching a movie. It's like, why is this guy so fucking stupid? He overreacts to everything.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but I think that's a great characteristic. Like, I think it's an amazing movie character to just be like, oh, this guy is bringing so much grief to himself because he can't control his temper.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you imagine if he was the Rewatchables producer? The copy is not on the screen yet. Where is he?

[Kyle Brandt]

I want him out.

[Bill Simmons]

What are your Jake Goodman thoughts, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

I have a lot of Jake Goodman thoughts. Him being the dumbest thing in any of the From Hell movies is bold. There's a woman in the Good Son who drops her own son off a cliff in favor of one of her sons. That's a big move. But I love. There's a really brief scene, I know you guys saw it, where he shows us a lot of his cards. And he's a rugby player. He comes in. In the rain. He's got that, like, Blues Clues shirt on, and he's like, sorry, went to double overtime. Super violent. Most rugby players will be ready to fight and have beers after the game. And really, really dumb. Like, my. My favorite part of the From Hell movies is not when the From Hell people go bad. It's when they're buttering up their marks. And the two scenes that Keaton has with. With Modine and then it's a very different one with Patty. And Modine just sees a few hundred bucks and he's like, I don't give a shit. Your private trust. Great. Total idiot. Whereas Melanie Griffith is actually really smart in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she does. Keaton does a lot of stuff in that scene, which is going to be coming up for most rewatchables where it's like, so you bought this? Who'd you buy this with? Are you guys married? It's your first one. Yeah, like, he's just like pulling information from him so good. And stupid ass Drake Goodman, who just sees a wallet full of $2900. Which, by the way, he doesn't give to him.

[Chris Ryan]

Nope. Because he's like, I could give you this now or I could wire you all of it next week.

[Bill Simmons]

Anytime. Somebody's like, I could wire it to you next week. Like, I'm out. I'm like, hey, how about you, how about you sign the lease and we could.

[Kyle Brandt]

From my bank in San Antonio. What? Yeah, good.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the San Antonio Tropic Thunder?

[Chris Ryan]

What's.

[Bill Simmons]

What is he saying then?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, we're going to get some crawfish.

[Bill Simmons]

Crawfish in San Antone.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So Drake Goodman, professional luxury kite maker, one of the dumbest landlords of all time, terrible boyfriend, not excited at all for the pregnancy. Right away, wins the fighter.

[Chris Ryan]

Alcoholic.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, definitely put down five beers.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, he hammers, beers him.

[Bill Simmons]

At one point, he gets in a fight with Keaton. They go through the glass door, gets in some punches, and then Melanie Griffith comes out and he all of a sudden he's like a five year old kid. Like he collapses into her arms like, oh, I'm sorry. It's like, what are you in the kindergarten? You just fought the school bully. Just a complete mess.

[Kyle Brandt]

But he has all the traits of a spoiled rich kid. Except he's not rich. So what good is he? You're right. The more you watch it, the less you like him.

[Bill Simmons]

This was kind of the Modine, you know, he would be these quirky characters, like Vision Quest. Super quirky. I love that movie. I love him in that movie. I think he's great.

[Kyle Brandt]

So do I.

[Bill Simmons]

But like, just there's a quirkiness about him. Like he's like wide eyed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, it's off kilter.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. There's no been nobody like him. Right. I can't think of another actor I

[Chris Ryan]

can't think of another actor now who is like as offbeat as him yet put in the lead Role, you know, I mean, it's like usually that guy will be like, I don't know, like the Crispin Glover kind of like, oh, he's the comic relief or the weird buddy and the weird one. He's often like the main, the main character. He was a leading man.

[Bill Simmons]

Always seems. And I just think because he looks young, he always seems three years too young for whatever role he's in. And Full Metal Jacket, was that that kind of work to his advantage? Yes, but he does Birdie, Vision Quest, Full Metal Jacket, Gross Anatomy. He's like considered to be one of the, you know, one of the best upand cominging actors.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's so good in Full Metal Jacket precisely because the way he's delivering his lines and the way everybody in that movie is kind of talking is like, you're like, what is going on?

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Joker, we haven't done that one yet. And then after this, he does Wind. Oh, I like that movie. Little Sailing.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm not familiar with Wind.

[Chris Ryan]

It's an America's cup movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Sailing movie. You'd be familiar if you surf around on Tubi.

[Kyle Brandt]

I do, I do. I'm a White Squall guy when it comes to.

[Bill Simmons]

And then my favorite Modine, other than Vision Quest, I like White Squall is. Is and the Band played on the HBO movie about, about when the AIDS thing developed and he has a great stand up scream at everybody's speech in that movie. How much is enough? I know. How many bodies do we have to bury? Like. But it's really good. It's. And it's with him when he goes on tilt, you really feel it and enjoy it. What's your Modine like when you see Modine? What are your thoughts?

[Craig Horback]

I don't have any.

[Chris Ryan]

You probably think the guy, the guy from Dark Knight.

[Craig Horback]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

The Lieutenant or whatever.

[Kyle Brandt]

He comes from Stranger Things.

[Craig Horback]

I mean, unfortunately it's Stranger Things, I mean, which is probably pathetic.

[Chris Ryan]

But he has like a.

[Craig Horback]

There's almost like a Krasinski vibe to him when he's young.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, that's a great one. You know, it's like that's who his comp is now.

[Craig Horback]

He could have existed in a sitcom. His style of acting, I think almost would work that way.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Scrubs instead of Zacharias.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah, I think he could have done something like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think he should have put on 50 pounds of muscle like Krasinski?

[Chris Ryan]

Or he could have been like Jason Seagull a little bit. Like see him in shrinking kind of he's frame.

[Craig Horback]

I mean, he's built like a swimmer in this movie. He's like. He looks great.

[Kyle Brandt]

Top to bottom.

[Craig Horback]

Huge. He could have been a superhero.

[Bill Simmons]

A couple things about Modine that I find very interesting. Offered Maverick and Top Gun offered that before Tom Cruise turned it down and has talked about it since. Because he disagreed vehemently with the film's Cold War politics.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure. I get it.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I think I get it. I see it. It's just hilarious that four years later he's in Pacific Heights and he's like, I don't agree with the Cold War politics, but tenant rights. It's a passion.

[Chris Ryan]

He plays the defense secretary in Sicario Day of the Soldado. So I think he's loosened up a little.

[Craig Horback]

Is that true?

[Chris Ryan]

Where he asks Josh Brolin to kidnap a cartel king's daughter?

[Bill Simmons]

So changed his mind there. His interviews are really great. He really offers a lot. This was from 1990 LA Times. Now I feel like he's going to come at us. I like Modine. I don't want him to be mad at us.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's fine. I like him too.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like he's a friend. How I'd make fun of Joe House.

[Chris Ryan]

Modine. Sunday nights with Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Do some Sunday nights with us.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe he could come on and do a Knicks thing with you.

[Bill Simmons]

I would love it. I like Modine. Here's what he says.

[Chris Ryan]

Say it one more time. I think everybody will believe me.

[Kyle Brandt]

I feel like you grew up with Modine, but like he came up together.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like his family. It's like a. You're up there on that board with him. I like hobby.

[Kyle Brandt]

I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

The reason I was interested in Pacific Heights was that we as a society call ourselves civilized. And we live together in community. In that community, we make rules where we say we won't take advantage of each other and we won't think that another individual is taking advantage of us. Try to give them the benefit of the doubt. And there's always some kind of person or group who takes advantage of the goodness and kindness of the society. And then he goes into talking about divers and Acapulco.

[Chris Ryan]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think he'd be an incredible podcast.

[Craig Horback]

I bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Very eloquent, thoughtful.

[Kyle Brandt]

We active on Twitter. He was just recently tweeting about the pegboard scene was real in Vision Quest.

[Craig Horback]

I love that.

[Kyle Brandt]

And it was really cool backstory. Like, he'll tell the stories. He's out there.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie was written by Daniel Pine. Based the screenplay on several stories he heard from tenants in San Francisco pre Internet. And then it was directed by John Schlesinger.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who. This is the tail end of the career here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But he did our beloved Marathon Man.

[Bill Simmons]

He did.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did Sunday Buddy. Sunday.

[Chris Ryan]

Midnight Cowboy.

[Bill Simmons]

Midnight Cowboy. Way, way back when. Falcon and the Snowman. This is not America. No, this is not. And he did the Believers.

[Chris Ryan]

I will say that for Schlesinger, this movie has. I mean, Sam Peckinpah did Straw dogs in the 70s, but this has, like, some roots in, like, some of those 70s movies you would see where it was like, nerdy couple get taught a lesson about the real world by outlaws kind of thing. This is a little bit different. It's like more of like a sociopathic con man, but it's still like two people starting their lives thinking, like, let's just take the plunge and buy a750,000 Dick Dorian.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Carter Hayes.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some good directing moments in this movie, though. Like, even when Carter Hayes is going to check back in the hotel and they're like, you know, credit cards, they worked. And your wife and. And the camera's, like, going around him and the Chancellor from 90210 for, like,

[Kyle Brandt]

it's really, really good.

[Bill Simmons]

That guy, the dad for Risky Business. But it's. It's some good craftsmanship. The only thing I wanted to mention that I think is important is this is, like, right in the Yuppie era. Um, this is. We've talked about it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a late Yuppie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's late Yuppie. It's. It's because they filmed this in 89. So we're talking. We talked about during the Wall street podcast of, you know, greed is good, so let's try to make a buck. It's.

[Chris Ryan]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

Reagan's, the president. It's, how do. How do I become rich? How do I turn a profit? And this is like them trying to buy this building. It's not like they. They restore the building, but they restore it just because it's a chance to maybe make some money from it. And the ending is really interesting when there's this other couple that comes in and they want to buy it. It's like, well, it's $900,000 now, and they're gonna turn it in. But that was kind of the mentality back then, and I don't think it's the mentality now. So if you're in your 20s and you're watching this now, Craig. Yeah. You'd be like, what the fuck's wrong with these people?

[Craig Horback]

The idealism back then was just much more pure than it is now. We're just too cynical now, you know?

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, it was. Everyone was told you.

[Chris Ryan]

You.

[Kyle Brandt]

You will buy a house and then it's an airtight investment. And then you will live in it for a long time and then make a ton of money when you sell it. And you're guaranteed that. And that's what they're doing here. Did you guys like when the. That last scene you're talking about Bill, when the. That, by the way, that guy is. That guy is the dad from Friday Night Lights. Did you find yourself doing the math a lot in this movie? Like, I was trying to figure out the finances.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, did they put 3% down?

[Craig Horback]

I don't know.

[Kyle Brandt]

Back then you could put zero down.

[Craig Horback]

You could.

[Kyle Brandt]

Like, they.

[Bill Simmons]

And then think of somebody buying a house for $750,000, but then living month to month with the rent. It's like if we miss. Miss one month rent, we could lose this whole thing. It's like. I'm not sure how that works.

[Kyle Brandt]

When you buy it, just fudge the numbers a bit. Everybody does it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. And then they. They sell it at the end. We don't know, but maybe somewhere in the high eight hundreds and they paid mid sevens, put at least 50,000 into it. Like they make money for sure. But it's not.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not. It's.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's not great.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not walkway money. Yeah. Retirement money.

[Bill Simmons]

No weird times. 102 minutes, Craig. Not bad right there. You feel it just flies by. I could have actually used maybe two more.

[Chris Ryan]

I could have used a little bit more Beverly d'. Angelo.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, let's go. Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

With an.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, I could have used a rugby scene. I.

[Kyle Brandt]

There you go. You needed a rugby scene.

[Bill Simmons]

I could have watched Modine playing rugby and I could.

[Chris Ryan]

I could have used a lot more Greg, you know the guy. The guy who's helping him destroy the apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Horback]

I could have used a little sexual tension scene between Keaton and Griffith.

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if they shot that and left it on the cutting.

[Craig Horback]

We're like. He touches her hand. They look at each other for a moment.

[Chris Ryan]

He intuitively understands her pain from losing her.

[Craig Horback]

Something there to be like.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, is there a little bit there?

[Bill Simmons]

I had this for later in the movie. I think the movie's miss. He's. He goes heel immediately. Right. He's in the house.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

The weird guys in there. Yeah. Carter's in Seattle. There's no scene where he's kind of charming them in and he's like, hey, I brought you guys a glass of wine. Well, why don't we have it together? And then they have a glass of wine. He's got a program for the bathroom. He kind of looks at her legs like we're just missing that. Fortunately, like, just a, you know, leg shot. Just kind of salivating a little bit. $18 million budget made. $55 million. Kyle Brandt.

[Kyle Brandt]

55 million, and it was all worth it. I have to revisit something that Chris just said. You imagine you go to this movie and you buy a ticket and you get an idea what it's about. All right, It's Michael Keaton. Something to do with real estate. You sit down and in the first 60 seconds, you're like, holy shit. Is this Ellen Griswold's boobs in my face? What the hell is this? Uncredited Beverly d' Angelo out of the clouds with full, like, full nude all timer. You must have been blown away in the theater watching that. I was rewatching it.

[Bill Simmons]

I had it. In what stage? The best top.

[Craig Horback]

I know. You did

[Bill Simmons]

top 10. Sure. Actresses we've had.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, hey, Beverly, you know, we can't decide pg 13 or R. Do you just want to film one take where we just. We go for it. Sure, let's go. If it's okay with Michael.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's also one of the earliest ever moments in a movie for the. Okay, motherfucker. Like, we're gonna kick this up a notch. And what's so great about that is that that's Pacino saying, okay, motherfucker. And eventually he was in on that. True.

[Bill Simmons]

They had a kid together.

[Chris Ryan]

They sure did.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I googled. I googled. I was thinking this should be a category. Things I Google as I'm prepping the rundown for rewatchables. But I googled Beverly d' Angelo nude scenes because I couldn't remember how many

[Chris Ryan]

times she had that one on that iPad. Or this iPad.

[Bill Simmons]

No, on this iPad. And all this research came up of her nude scene in Vacation, which apparently she's like, fuck it, I'll do it. And there was this whole story about Anthony Michael hall getting in trouble because he tried to sneak onto the set

[Chris Ryan]

when she was doing her nude scene,

[Bill Simmons]

which I don't think came up in our research when we did rewatch was initially. And then they had to kick him off the set because he was basically 14 years old.

[Chris Ryan]

Filming porkies.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Trying to watch through a Peephole. Roger Ebert, two stars. You know who's not a fan of From Helmut?

[Chris Ryan]

The late Roger Ebert finds these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Detest these movies. Pacific Heights is a horror film for yuppies in which the bad guy uses the ax to attack your 3 flat, not you.

[Chris Ryan]

The thing is that I could easily see this being the premise of a Hitchcock. I mean, even down to the setting. But the idea of being terrorized in your own house seems like something that was ready made for him. And then Roger would be like, ah, the master.

[Bill Simmons]

I never much liked the young couple or believed they liked each other.

[Kyle Brandt]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

And I didn't see enough of Keaton in the early stages of the movie because he was always behind a closed door. Fair criticism.

[Chris Ryan]

It is. That is true.

[Bill Simmons]

I was going to do this later. I'll do it now. This would have been a great De Palma movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you ramp up the sexuality all the way through. I think you change. You recast Melanie Griffith or Tower. Just. Can you go into body double mode?

[Chris Ryan]

He would be doing all this stuff, like going between walls.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like Drake and Patty are humping. Carter's listening.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, like, there's definitely a. Carter sneaks in and is watching when they're having sex scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Carter makes Ann come over but calls her Patty. It's just like. It would be so twisted.

[Bill Simmons]

All kinds of shit.

[Kyle Brandt]

See, I would take that and I would just. I just go one notch higher with Fincher. And then it's. Then it's getting really dark.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, like panic Room.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't know if Carter is forcing himself on it.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know if I can handle Fincher with the roaches. I just think. Really gross.

[Bill Simmons]

We're going to take a break. We're going to come back with most rewatchable scene and I had a surprising amount of them. This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 percenter. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T Mobile Home run derby's right around the corner. Might be one of the best showcases of pure power in all sports. Baseball's biggest sluggers along with some legendary announcers. Pujols Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia, Al Duncan. Yeah. Hunter Pence, Matt Fastkurzian. A whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing to make history. I'm interested to see what Bond says about this, actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens bank park in Philly. Watch the T Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix. Monday, July 13 at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific. Most rewatchable scene. Kyle mentioned the sheer thrill of seeing Mrs. Griswold getting it on a minute in this movie. Congrats to her.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bill. One year after Christmas vacation in which she spends the entire Christmas Eve with this like center cut, bosom busting thing. And you're like, God, she's so attractive and cool. 10 seconds into the movie just lying around naked, the 13 year old me went crazy.

[Craig Horback]

Loved it.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, she's just covered in her own cigarette smoke.

[Chris Ryan]

Just smoking and wearing a kimono the entire movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's coming out of her nostrils constantly. It's almost like she's wearing a reverse oxygen mask or something. Just spitting out smoke. Most watchful scene. I love a good house renovation scene. Going right into a super awkward rental scene with a prospective black tenant.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you ever done.

[Bill Simmons]

Really, really interesting from a 1990 perspective for sure.

[Chris Ryan]

And then winds up being a real. Being really, really Chekhov's black tenant. But have you ever done your own demo work?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you talking about?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just curious.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sledgehammer, gloves, gotten the hammer out.

[Bill Simmons]

And just look at these hands.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, Chris. Have you.

[Chris Ryan]

I've never owned.

[Craig Horback]

Look at these baby soft hands.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, these hands are soft as a baby's bottom.

[Kyle Brandt]

I thought, Chris, maybe that place where you guys stopped paying rent.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You said calluses here. That's it.

[Craig Horback]

I thought.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know. Like back in Boston or your first LA house. You're like, yeah, let's take this wall down. No, let's open this place up a little.

[Kyle Brandt]

I didn't think.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that's a no. I'm sorry. I just get the run around so much. Felt bad for that guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Carl.

[Bill Simmons]

He was also Carl Lumber. Maybe a little too aggro initially, but I get it right now.

[Kyle Brandt]

That place.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Also, I'm putting the. I'm not putting it under the door. My lease application. It's in an. It's in a manila envelope. Attention Drake and Patty could have just

[Chris Ryan]

been a little bit more on the same page about who was handling applications and who Was doing what?

[Bill Simmons]

They weren't on the same page in this entire movie. Kyle mentioned this scene already. Keaton comes in, asks a bunch of questions. This is your first place. How about if I pay 2000 now? Actually, I'll wire you everything from my bank and work my feedback in this.

[Chris Ryan]

In this scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Bank in San Antonio.

[Kyle Brandt]

Because I know it sounds so made up. And this is. There's twin scenes. He works the idiot Drake, and then he gets the smart girl. And he's doing that thing where he's like, did you pick out these light fixtures? And then there's this shot where he gives her a quick up and down in the body. And he's like, you've got great taste. It's a. It's a great scene. I love that one.

[Bill Simmons]

I work for a private trust. I don't really have a traditional kind of credit.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

This is up there. What I was thinking about, like, who would buy this?

[Bill Simmons]

How stupid do you have to be? Maybe he had CTE from the rugby.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a very, like, what's the most 1990 thing? But, like, it's the idea of being like, I work for a private trust. It's based in San Antonio. You're not going to get a usual credit history. It's up there with like, I'd love to do this, but I just have to move some money around, right?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes, sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Take out your phone and move the money around.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, motherfucker. Come back with that money.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sounds like she lives in Canada. I met her at Niagara Falls.

[Bill Simmons]

The same thing. Like, what's the Mount Rushmore of? Yeah, you wouldn't know her.

[Kyle Brandt]

Everlast. Anybody around here.

[Bill Simmons]

He says, I'm always running into this problem, you know? Yeah, I bet you are. Carter Hayes. What do we think about Carter Hayes and Drake Goodman as names?

[Chris Ryan]

I think they're supposed to be anonymous because Danforth keeps moving through identity. So I. I think it's like an easy. It's an easy name to, like, replicate and to, like, get.

[Bill Simmons]

What ringer podcast would Carter Hayes host?

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, Straight Lacrosse dude. That's an AI Lax name right there if I ever heard one.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, we've gotten rid of Danny Heifetz in the fantasy football show. We've replaced him with Carter Hayes and Craig Goodman.

[Chris Ryan]

If Carter Hayes started doing some town episode, he's a billionaire now.

[Bill Simmons]

This is my favorite scene in the movie. And. Okay, just because it makes me laugh so hard, it immediately turns you against Drake Goodman for the rest of the movie, and he becomes the bad guy. When they're talking about Mr. Baker, how he came in the respective black tenant and he goes, I don't know. Maybe he's one of those minority scam artists.

[Chris Ryan]

That was a weird aggro, racist term by him.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this a new category for us? The Drake Goodman Award for Most Unexpected Casual Racism?

[Craig Horback]

No, no. It's not a racial thing. It's common sense.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure. That guy is so psyched to vote

[Kyle Brandt]

for Bush, he almost catches himself saying, I have a lot of black friends, honey. Like it's right there.

[Chris Ryan]

To be fair, he does. His only friend.

[Kyle Brandt]

He does. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird because he's a racist, but they're renting the other apartment to a Japanese couple and his only friend is black. So why are you being a racist? It's just bizarre.

[Chris Ryan]

Drake Goodman, racist kite maker. That should be a new character in the impressions.

[Craig Horback]

Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

You'll never get one of these kites.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I don't trust this guy. He's Mexican. I'm just a kite maker. I just call him like I see it.

[Bill Simmons]

We did hit him out of World cup show.

[Chris Ryan]

Drake have been in the first Sicario. It's like, yeah. Finding him would be like finding a vaccine for a disease.

[Bill Simmons]

I was even at a World cup show. Ecuador. Typical.

[Chris Ryan]

That's just basically Alexi Lawless. It kind of is.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, man. Carter somehow gets into the place as my next rewatchable scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, this sweat. This is tough because this is where they gave him an inch of daylight and he just said, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did they?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, because that's the great thing.

[Bill Simmons]

He signed the lease. I guess he did.

[Chris Ryan]

He says he signed a lease, but he's obviously not paid. He immediately changes the locks.

[Bill Simmons]

He got in because somebody opened the door. But their mistake was not locking the lower apartment.

[Kyle Brandt]

So again, they're just so disorganized. They got people moving in. They. They have money problems. We need this guy. They. They don't have anybody watching the till. Yeah, it went to double overtime. Like, there's a lot going on. The kites are running behind schedule.

[Chris Ryan]

There was an intense scrum he was a part of.

[Bill Simmons]

I wanted to see her if she ran, like, the equestrian club like this. There's just little kids riding on horses away from some place in Malibu or whatever. Hay's in the garage. We go from he barely gets into he's in Seattle to now he's just smoking a cigarette in the dark in the garage. Again, I feel like we're missing a scene, but I think this is A really good flipping the razor blade. It's like, okay. And this is 22 minutes into the movie. It's like, all right, we're not even gonna, like, play the game and pretend we're buddies here, right? We're just going for it.

[Kyle Brandt]

I looked for you guys. He's smoking that cigarette in the car with the windows up, too. Yes, It's.

[Craig Horback]

It's.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's full psycho. He doesn't care.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that might. Is arguably the most sociopathic thing he did in the movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

In a small Porsche coupe, too. That ain't invented because that car is

[Bill Simmons]

gonna fucking stink for 10 years.

[Chris Ryan]

Just keeping roaches in jars is pretty nuts as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's pretty. Next rewatch, we'll see he changed the locks. Look, I can handle this, Patty.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

This is where my wife. I wrote down her quote. He's acting very rational, and it's bothering me. That was a direct quote from my wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she. Patty needed to take. Take the con here. She needs to take over.

[Bill Simmons]

Patty needed to give him the veto. Corleone. You can act like a man.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just like, shake his. Shake his shirt. He's just a mess at this point. Next one, cockroaches. Which leads to Drake climbing under the apartment at the perfect time where we get to hear the entire plot of the movie thanks to our two bad guys. They're just doing a podcast about their heist. They're doing well.

[Chris Ryan]

You brought me in on this. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The cats in there, there's cockroaches that fall on the head. Good. Probably Modine's best moment in the movie. Those are 20 live cockroaches getting dropped.

[Chris Ryan]

Now, this is right when the cat gets taken, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

When you and I have shared that in the 90s, earlier decades in American history, we've. We had a little bit more of a transient, like, kind of a flippant relationship to house pets. Yeah. This is what we mean, you know, like when. When it's just like, you just get another cat. When he tells Patty they have our cat, she's just like, too bad.

[Kyle Brandt]

Doesn't give a shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, I was going to have Mallory as our fourth, and I just feel like she would have spent an hour and a half talking about the cat.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. I just don't understand.

[Bill Simmons]

Just would have.

[Kyle Brandt]

They would have its own Instagram account.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Member of the family. We travel with it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

But he takes those bugs to the face like a champion. I like that. Reminds me of, like, Kate Capshaw in Temple of Doom. Gets, like, bugs and centipedes all over her. It's like that. It's a cool moment.

[Bill Simmons]

What if. If you had to say more impressive to the pegs vision quest going all the way up or the 20 cockroaches on the face? What did Mod. What impressed you more from Modine?

[Kyle Brandt]

The cockroaches in the face is like a bad, like, Joe Rogan Fear Factor episode at that pegboard. I couldn't do that thing even when I was in high school. I think it's the pegboard by far. That thing is very hard. Very hard.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Incredible stuff by Modin. He's a fucking legend. Carter brings the flowers over after making the police call just to get his ass kicked. Goes through the front door. We get a cry hug after. Drake does the beating. And then we get the lawyer going. This is what he wanted. Game over. Drake loses. She's giving them the basics at all time.

[Kyle Brandt]

God help us if this becomes personal. Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

So good fight scene. Any thoughts, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

I do. Yeah, I have some thoughts. First of all, I had this unanswerable questions. Incredible job baiting the hook with the preemptive police call. What is Carter's play if Goodman doesn't take the bait? In other words, he's mad, but, like, he's not beating him up. You just keep kind of riding him. And do you have some burn that

[Chris Ryan]

if you pull at this, like, yes. I mean, my unanswerable questions are similarly based in Kyle, but, like, I don't know what he does. If Drake's just like, okay, well, I

[Bill Simmons]

tried, you know, like, now, see, I think he studied this man, this idiot Drake Goodman, for weeks on end.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you saw him get excited by just the sight of $3,000? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like Brunson in game five with Wemby. Just like, I've solved this. Seven foot six free.

[Kyle Brandt]

I've got it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just gonna beat him off the dribble. He's gonna buy every fake I have, and then I'm gonna score on him anyway. I think. I think he knew how it was.

[Kyle Brandt]

Heavy artillery. Ready? Some sound bites or maybe some gestures. He was going to get him to punch him one way or another.

[Bill Simmons]

Once he found out about the rugby, he's like, this guy's going to punch me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This guy plays rugby on Sunday.

[Chris Ryan]

He could just be like, rugby. It's not a real sport, God damn it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Every rugby player is just a failed football player. Right, Drake? And then the punches would start.

[Bill Simmons]

Drake gets shot. Yeah, this was a. Whoa. I like the camera, too. Where Keaton comes. Keaton turns off the lights and he's in the background.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think I had this for unanswerable? Do you think he meant to kill him or just.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I think he meant to maim him. Because I think the entire point is

[Bill Simmons]

that he wants to take his identity

[Chris Ryan]

or what the first con is supposed to be. I will basically get this house as payment for the debts that they're going to owe me.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The civil complaint that I have. And then he's just going to sell the house for nothing and make, like, whatever the profit is for that. But then I think as it goes on, it becomes more of an identity theft thing.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, I think, yeah, he shoots him by accident and then he plants the crowbar. But I'm glad Chris said that because I think even watching it now as an adult, it's a little hazy exactly what Carter's endgame is. I watched and I'm like, what is the plan? Like, I. He strips the apartment and I think maybe he sells all the light fixtures and the tile or something.

[Chris Ryan]

But, like, I think he. For him, it's like, all cash business. I just need moving around money. But I don't know that he is, like, this score will set me up. Like, I think he's addicted to, like, being on the run and addicted to this kind of terror.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the answers.

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

He destroys the place because he's a fucking sociopath who smokes cigarettes with the windows up in his car. Um, he fully intends to win a civil suit against Drake and get the house.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then.

[Chris Ryan]

But not like. Then start at life there. He's going to flip.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's going to flip it and move to the next city, right?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's just, like, way easier ways of making $200,000.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely. You have to get the shit kicked out of you.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, look at Patty. Fucking equestrian. T shirt. Do something.

[Bill Simmons]

Fly some kites. Patty seen that Carter destroyed the place.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she's really upset about it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good scene.

[Chris Ryan]

All of her life.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Melanie Griffith's best, best work in the movie. Followed by her meeting the tenant that she didn't rent to because her boyfriend is a casual racist. My favorite part of the movie. Patty spies on Carter for the day and somehow gets into his hotel room. This 15, 10 minutes, whatever it is.

[Chris Ryan]

I wish there was, like, three more things like this.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, this could have been the whole movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, she does like the full Kevin McAllister I'm just gonna order everything to room service. Give me the Caesar creme brulee. She's like having a shopping spree. And it's as your audience. You've been waiting for 90 minutes for this. It's very satisfying.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what they.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig's nodding happily. I know that he loves this part.

[Craig Horback]

Best scene in the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

This is easily the most rewatchable scene. The whole thing with the maid. I do find it a little ridiculous that Carter keeps his entire biography and newspaper clippings in his suitcase.

[Craig Horback]

Well, we've learned it from Helmut that everybody does that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was Fatal Attraction. Created it. And now that you're in from hell month, you have to keep the scrapbook.

[Chris Ryan]

But you know what remind me of was Gene triple horns move in the firm where she goes down to the Caymans with a. Yeah, Avery. And like, I thought it would have been great if Patty was like, carter, you're the fucking man. Take me with you on your next score. And like, tried to seduce a little bit, but, you know, basically was always just trying to build a case against him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's for the Apple scripted series that's going to happen from this. Yeah, I learned that from this scene. The maid always let you in. In any movie if you try this in real life. They're like, I'm sorry, sir, I can't. You're gonna have to go back down her. Her excuse is like, I can't get into my room. Like, it's like, you're in the 10th floor. Just go down and get a fucking key. Also, what's the maid always falls for to the movies?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, what. What is with the, like, her leaving, then taking back, then leaving a little bit of cash for the maid? Is she trying to decide how much Carter owes her versus the maid?

[Bill Simmons]

I think she was like, I'll do a good deed for this lady. And then she's like, oh, yeah, we're broke and I'm about to lose my house.

[Craig Horback]

I do think that's it. Which is such a weird thing to add. She's like, why don't want to give the maid all of them? Yeah, what is she gonna do?

[Kyle Brandt]

She's a good person.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bill, this is like. This is one of those things that happens in movies and not in real life. Like, when you go into a bar and say, I'll have a beer. You have to say the name of the beer. I recently had this in a hotel, like six months ago where I was locked out. And I asked the maid, I was like, can you please let me in. Here's my id. Here's everything. And this lady was going to war. She. No matter what I said, she would not let me in. It's just. Maybe it happened in 1999.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Any hotel is going to be like, you're fired if you let it.

[Chris Ryan]

You got to go downstairs. I don't have. I can't. I can't let you in.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that. I like when people go nuts in a bad guy's hotel room, which she does when they flip out. The scrapbook of his evil work is especially good. It's probably the best scrapbook we've had.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's perfectly cut newspaper clippings. Hey, here's when I lost out the family to my brother.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just like, so weird because it's like if you're Carter, it's not like you've forgotten what you've done, Right?

[Bill Simmons]

You have all these pictures. Here's me and my twin brother and a chimpanzee. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's probably when he started losing his mind. And also, listen, you have Tom Sizemore calls guys slick in prison, changing the entire plot of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

And you have Danforth unlocks the entire thing.

[Craig Horback]

Come on.

[Kyle Brandt]

He left the scrap back with his real name on the back in the middle of the trash department. That's like the slick equivalent here.

[Bill Simmons]

I like when she takes the chocolate.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, she earned that chocolate.

[Bill Simmons]

That whole scene is just great. Then the final fight. Fight scene. You crossed the line.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The nail gun. Very scary callback to the nail gun. It just had stopped working for her. And then we get the Alan Rickman. There's Bruce Willis right there staring. Bruce Willis staring at cr. Just looking, staring him down. We get the fall fall backwards. Even though he's just in a kitchen going backwards. Just put your hands behind you. Our guy Matthew Modid. Another interview. He did 2016.

[Kyle Brandt]

What's he got now? Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the movie would have made a load more money if at the end, when Michael Keaton fell in the spikes, if he'd started to pull himself up and I'd reached up from where I was below him and pulled him back down onto them. Because he shot me. He's beaten me with the golf club. He's ruined my life. He's destroyed my apartment. The audience really wanted my character, Drake Goodman, to get one back at him.

[Chris Ryan]

To be fair to him, man, I. I do all due respect to Matthew, do you think anyone in the history of movie going would be like, yeah, it was A pretty good movie until the very end when Drake Goodman finally double impales him. And everybody's like, I gotta go out and see that for myself. I would make a load more money because of that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think more people would have wanted Drake Goodman to die at the end of the movie. I wish he had died from the golf cup beating. I hate Drake Goodman.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I guess I should say this now. My weak link of the film. I think Carter's death is fucking horrible. I think the whole scene is so lame. You do get Chekhov's nail gun, but you don't get that killed with it. And can we just. Can we walk through what Drake's plan was here? He's just been beaten with a golf club and his bullet wounds. He's going to go underneath the room in the chance that there's some glory hole he can reach through and do a Brazilian leg lock to trip him. And that final shot is like, something that Nordberg would do. It looks ridiculous. I think the last scene is bad.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the worst part of the movie. I agree.

[Chris Ryan]

They didn't. They didn't know how to end it.

[Bill Simmons]

I also think he's kind of holding onto his leg and Keaton's looking down. Just kick your leg.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Stop. His fingers.

[Bill Simmons]

The guy's, like, really injured. Yeah, Just, like, hurt his arm. Keaton's like. As though I had to react.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like they shot Keaton thinking he was going to fall out a window, but then the actual reality is he just falls onto the floor.

[Bill Simmons]

It would have been better if he just put his hand up and tripped him, and then he fell, like, face first on the thing, through the floor,

[Craig Horback]

down to Modine or something.

[Kyle Brandt]

Imagine Hans Gruber, instead of falling 50 stories, just fell down on the ground and died. That's what it is.

[Chris Ryan]

What if, like, you know, Drake was hiding underneath the floor and then he just lets a kite out at the last second.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, he's got a kite with razor blades on it.

[Craig Horback]

I'm always upset that nobody says anything in this final moment.

[Chris Ryan]

I know.

[Craig Horback]

Like, he's a lot. Carter's alive for 20 seconds staring at you. Like, that's when you get in your line. That's when you put a cockroach on his face.

[Chris Ryan]

Or you got to just be like, you're evicted. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

We've rejected you.

[Chris Ryan]

Your rent is past due.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, say goodbye to that security deposit, asshole. It's perfect.

[Chris Ryan]

Honey, Call the angry black guy. We have a vacancy.

[Bill Simmons]

Hotel room is the best scene. The re. That's the most rewatched.

[Chris Ryan]

No brainer.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1990 thing about this movie? Kyle Brandt.

[Kyle Brandt]

You know, sometimes when you're just lying on the couch riddled with bullet wounds, you just need to bang out some Sound garden on MTV and just turn it the up and it'll just take you where you need to go.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm self satisfied. And that's. He's just like, I'm just cozy.

[Kyle Brandt]

And it's just. It's rocking out early Sound garden. It's this song called Hands all over. It's metal as hell. He should be watching like Price is Right or something. Like no MTV sound garden, like turned up to 11. It makes me so happy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, an MTV video of a grunge song that they probably wouldn't have played in 1989 or 1990, I'm guessing. I don't think that one's playing.

[Chris Ryan]

What's your favorite? Just all the banking and tenant application stuff. Waiting for wire transfers. And then also this has now become a tenant of from hell. Movies, letters of reference. Again, it's just like, hey, I have this letter of reference. Well, it's airtight. We better just get this guy in the apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, how about. How about. Here's the phone number of my previous landlord. Yeah, it's just some lady having a cigarette. Yeah, Carter's great.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I had to give him money to just to be here.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't have an address for him, do you? That's a red flag.

[Chris Ryan]

I also had Drake being kind of blown away by Carter having a car alarm.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, yeah, Something.

[Chris Ryan]

He's just like, whoa, he dunked on him. Are you from the future?

[Bill Simmons]

I had buying a huge San Francisco three story house for $750,000.

[Chris Ryan]

Although 1.9 million adjusted for today's money.

[Bill Simmons]

Ebert calling this a horror film for yuppies. Anyone working for a designer kite company. I feel like that has to specifically be 1989 or 90.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then that's real like Earth day kind of vibes, you know, like we're just gonna go outside to the park.

[Bill Simmons]

Not being able to google your bad guy tenant. Feel like I'm just gonna check out this Carter Hayes, see if there's anything online. And then Melanie's haircut.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just.

[Kyle Brandt]

Come on, Bill. You waited long enough.

[Bill Simmons]

It's very specific to the that 89. 90. It's. I want some life in it. It's like a bob. My wife kind of liked it, but it's kind of a bob. I don't know if it exists. Two years later, I think she goes shorter.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's just very specific to that era and I don't know why. Her clothes in general are very late 80s, 1990. Ish. I'm so excited. This is my favorite category. The Floyd Gondoli Butter on my ass, Lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. I'll go first.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I love in movies like this when people do over the top rich guy stuff. And it's like the most cliched rich guy thing you could possibly do. In this case, Carter Haz, on whose next score picks up the wealthy lady in this giant mansion. What are we gonna do? An idea. I'm gonna put a sweater over my shoulders. I have a yacht. Little three hour yacht trip and let's drink some champagne and just seem super rich together. But nobody in the planet does this in real life. Not one in a movie, though. Great champagne. Yacht trip. Captain, take us out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I've got my sweater on.

[Craig Horback]

Hold on.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna make sure my sweater's. Nobody does this, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

They definitely had lobster and caviar too. That's what you do back in the day. Lifestyles of the rich and Famous.

[Bill Simmons]

No question.

[Chris Ryan]

What's yours?

[Kyle Brandt]

Great, great pull. First of all, I haven't thought about anything for the last five minutes than ways that Carter Hayes could suffer a kite death. That's all I want in life. I feel like maybe see how there could have been like a key or something like Benjamin Franklin, like another famous kiter. That's all I want was a cart debt. Floyd Gondoli things I just enjoy. I really enjoy Orkin's presence in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Very good.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bob, the sidekick of the Joker in the Batman movie shows up. And Bill, this is probably in half ass Internet. The Orkin company sued in how they were portrayed in this movie. Because I have this vision that there's like a. A VP of marketing who goes to the CEO and is like, sir, I really think we should write the check for this Matthew Modine movie. I think we want to be in it. They go to the premiere. They're sitting there like, here's the scene, here's the roaches, here it comes. And then it's this idiot bumbling Barney Fife moron who's like, I guess I

[Chris Ryan]

have to step on him.

[Kyle Brandt]

He can't do anything. And then I feel like the Orkin people went to the premiere and at the after party they were at the same table as the Marriott people. And Marriott people were like, this movie was great. We love how we were portrayed. The front desk guy.

[Bill Simmons]

The room. Surface hill in la.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. The manager with all the balls to stand up to the.

[Craig Horback]

We love it.

[Kyle Brandt]

And the Orkin people were furious. That gives me great amusement.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty good.

[Craig Horback]

It is.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What was that guy?

[Chris Ryan]

Tracy? Walter. He's in Repo Man. He's in Batman. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

I had him in the Silence of the Lambs. Yeah. Topsy.

[Bill Simmons]

He's been around, right? Yeah, yeah, he's one of those guys. What do you have?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, just any. Any movie where a car pulls up to the top of a hill in San Francisco as it's going home to like. It's just like those shots of those hills are just always like, yeah. This movie can be about anything.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage the best, other than anyone asking a trusty maid to let them into a hotel room that isn't theirs. Always works. I always get excited when it happens. It never can happen in real life. What do you have for Woodstage? The best, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

I already kind of mentioned that Patty is just so much smarter than Drake. I like that. And he's like a total dick to her, and she just sees over it. And then on the same related note, I just want to give some respect to Melanie Griffith's jeans in this movie. They're like the fourth lead of the film. They're up to her armpits. They're belted. They're frosted. I can't take my eyes off him. Her final shot in the movie is up the stairs, walking. It's just fantastic. And I love her genes in this movie. G E N E S and J E N S. That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say. Which is the best. Probably just the idea of, like, the Beta trying to fight the alpha. Like Drake being pit against a guy who has everything that he doesn't. And everything comes more easily to that guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Rugby Beta.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Rugby Beta with a con man Alpha. So I really enjoyed that.

[Bill Simmons]

I have music by Hans Zimmer.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hell, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hans is like, yeah, I'm not doing anything that week. I could whip something together. Evil tenet movie. Okay, I'll work on it. Casual rental racism Cut me back to burden a Landlord.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So what stage the best scrapbook was someone's evil past I had for another Beverly d' Angelo nude scene. It's like Devin Hester with kickoff touchdowns. It's like he did it again. 98 yards.

[Kyle Brandt]

And this was like the super bowl because he does it on the first play, like right out of the gate. And Jim Nance can't believe it. He's gone again.

[Bill Simmons]

How many times can he do this?

[Chris Ryan]

Just don't.

[Kyle Brandt]

You don't kick the Hester. Oh, that's great,

[Bill Simmons]

Bev. Smoking ahead for ucr.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A positive spin for the most part of being a landlord. Usually landlords in movies are evil people.

[Chris Ryan]

Landlords.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. As characters, you're just like, ah, the landlord. Or he's creepy or he's spying on them.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's like a stepmother. It's always evil. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Tippy Hedren as Flora. Tippy Hedren as Florence Peters.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's Melanie Griffith's mom.

[Bill Simmons]

Melanie Griffith's real life mom. And then I have for what stage the best. This exchange. Oh, that's a great idea. Patty, you're pregnant with a blown knee. My knee's fine and I don't have to be pregnant. Oh, yeah, that's in the script.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But also, like, unbelievable. Patty threatening to go. Go pro again in equestrian riding. Like, what kind of money are we talking gonna make the mortgage?

[Bill Simmons]

The nationals are coming up. You don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

It could be an Olympic sport any year now.

[Bill Simmons]

The Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. Kyle alluded to this earlier. Look, this is on the Internet. Not positive. It's true, but I'm gonna pass it on anyway because it's great. Modine stated during her presentation at the New York Film Academy that he significant difficulty working with Melanie Griffith. He noted her frequent complaints regarding her menstrual cycle as a primary memory of their professional interaction. I don't know if that's true or not. It's so fucking weird that I just am passing along, not judging as, you know, Maybe it's not true.

[Chris Ryan]

That's amazing. Is that around when. When Melanie Griffith was shooting Bonfire the Vanities.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

She complained openly about how difficult a production Pacific Heights was. Do you know how fucked up Pacific Heights must have been to have been complaining about it during making Bonfire Vanities?

[Bill Simmons]

What happened during this mov? And then Kate's like, World War II is out there. I'm not getting along with Melanie Griffith.

[Kyle Brandt]

Did he say that quote about the menstrual cycle, like, in character as Drake Goodman? Like, that's. That's something that he would say.

[Bill Simmons]

I hope that's not true. Maybe it's not true. I'm gonna pass it. Just for comedy's sake. That's it.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Again, the Steven Seagal category is like, we don't know if that happened where he Shit on himself.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's our God.

[Bill Simmons]

Passed it along. We're gonna take one more break and then we're do. Great shot, Gorda.

[Craig Horback]

You thought this was your run club era.

[Bill Simmons]

Turns out it was more of a

[Craig Horback]

thinking about Run club era.

[Chris Ryan]

The good news, Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on depop.

[Bill Simmons]

Just snap a few photos and we'll

[Craig Horback]

take care of the rest.

[Chris Ryan]

They get their race day fit and

[Craig Horback]

you get a payout for trying.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone on Depop wants what you've got.

[Chris Ryan]

Start selling now, depop.

[Craig Horback]

Where taste recognizes taste.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage

[Kyle Brandt]

motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block.

[Bill Simmons]

Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses. Setup required. Compatibility and availability various 18 plus great check order award. What do you have? CR. Most cinematic shot.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So I've got Drake dropping his mail in the. In the mailbox and then the curtains suddenly opening behind him. But I'd like to introduce a wrinkle to this category today.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's called Pass the Settle Down Juice. We've got a director award.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes. Do it. I know what it is.

[Chris Ryan]

The random 360 dolly shot of Patty and the lawyer having a pretty normal conversation. And when Lori Metcalf and Melanie Griffith are just like, yeah, well, this guy is going to try and get you out of the house. Because that's what he does. He tries to win. And meanwhile the camera is going around and around like it's like they just found Jake LaMotta there. It's really.

[Bill Simmons]

You love Settle Down Juice. Yeah, that's good one. I like that.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have this written down that if. If one of these guys chooses the 360 shot for the great shot, Gordo, we're going to fight. I hate that shot. I feel like I'm on a carnival ride. I get sick. And they're treating this banal conversation like it's a Pacino in the ocean. And the insider, like just screaming into the phone. It's like the drama doesn't match the shot. Easy, easy.

[Bill Simmons]

The only time it works is when Keaton's flipping out at the end with the hotel manager because he's flipping out and they start moving around.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

But I agree, the other one didn't work. I had the ice cube falling in the hotel glass.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, that was awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was a really good one where it flips. I just don't have the door. It's just. I was impressed. Chess. Rockwell Brocklanders Award, Best character name, Carter Hayes.

[Chris Ryan]

Now you guys got Drake Goodman. You got to dig deeper here, guys.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you got, Chris?

[Chris Ryan]

Court appointed locksmith, Manfred Bagel.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, come on. That's his name.

[Chris Ryan]

Imagine this guy names High end Zell. That's the actor, and he's been in a bunch of Woody Allen movies or whatever. But you think he's like. Gets a call and they're like, incredible. Hi, we need you to come play a coin. A court appointed blacksmith. And he's like, for Christ's sakes. I don't know. And they're like, his name is Manfred Bagel. And he's like, I'm in.

[Craig Horback]

I'm there.

[Chris Ryan]

What's my call time?

[Bill Simmons]

That guy's nickname was Onion or everything.

[Kyle Brandt]

The screenwriter was definitely eating a bagel when he wrote that character. He just had nothing.

[Craig Horback]

Bagel.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there's something in the thing where they say Patty's last name a couple times in the movie and then the credits. It's a different last name.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, for real.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I assume is just an overseas.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, wait a second. Hold on. Is it possible that his name is Bagel because he deals with locks? Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's like a nickname.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but the marshal is very official about, like.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's like very official.

[Chris Ryan]

Court appointed locksmith, Manfred Bagel.

[Kyle Brandt]

He does everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi, Pursuit of Happiness. The word best needle drop. Go ahead, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, I already mentioned the Soundgarden. There's an awesome part where when Drake gets back to the house and the car is being taken apart and there's just this crazy heavy metal plane.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

I want to shout out to a band called Hallows Eve, an 80s thrash band from Atlanta who plays Lethal Tendencies. And it makes Drake even madder. It's like a trap that he walks in that metal song. Which, by the way, I know that song kind of music pretty well. I literally downloaded Shazam and held it to my TV because I couldn't find out what song that was. And it's like, oh, easy. Lethal Tendencies. Hallow Z. Got it. That's.

[Chris Ryan]

My wife has been doing that to like, random trance songs that are on, like, off camera.

[Craig Horback]

Oh, really?

[Chris Ryan]

She's like, what is this? And I'm like, it's like literally Muzak.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you doing? I wrote down this is for later. But did this movie create grunge music? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

No, but that's a good, good bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Drake Goodman, listen to Soundgarden. Was that it?

[Chris Ryan]

Your hottest take?

[Bill Simmons]

That was ground zero.

[Craig Horback]

He.

[Chris Ryan]

He is. You could tell he's starting to explore. Like, I've got a scarf on, like, ironically.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think they moved to Seattle. You probably really get into this.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, Soundgarden, what, a year later, they're playing Birth ritual on singles.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Like, it's. It's. They just beat it.

[Bill Simmons]

Dennis Benny Hanna award for Scene Stealing location and the Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate. Where this house was.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think this house is a good piece of real estate?

[Bill Simmons]

I like that it's at the top of the hill. Like, that corner a lot, too. I think it's weird to live on those steep hills. Did you know anybody who did that?

[Craig Horback]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

My buddies Bish and Mike and Hopper, when they lived there, they lived, like, in the middle of a slanted hill. I always thought it was just weird.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I do want to mention the Beverly Hills house from the lady that his next mark. 1014 North Crescent. 30.3 million on Redfin right now.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

How much?

[Bill Simmons]

30.3.

[Craig Horback]

Wow. I mean, it looks fucking huge.

[Bill Simmons]

It was massive. I immediately was.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the fucking big. That's the white whale for Carter. He must be like, if I get this one, it's all over.

[Craig Horback]

I just, like, don't. So he's, like, in San Francisco trying to scam somebody into an apartment. And then he's also in LA trying to get a $30 million.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he likes to have two going.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's in Pontiac identity to go after her, Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like you always want to have the next one going.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Sam Presti. You got, like, two trades going at once. Could this movie have had a better title?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it could. It would have been the Tenet, but Roman Polanski made that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Broken lease.

[Chris Ryan]

He never breaks it.

[Kyle Brandt]

I just. I think it's eviction. It's Pacific Heights. What percentage of the viewing populace even knows what Pacific Heights is in reference to? It's very vague.

[Bill Simmons]

Safety. Safety deposit. I have the winner. It's off of what Kyle just said. Eviction Quest.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an unofficial Vision Quest sequel. Eviction Quest.

[Kyle Brandt]

Eviction Quest.

[Bill Simmons]

Cr. You have a flex category.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a Jesse Eisenberg. That's good. You should be proud of that right there. Don't worry if you don't make it any Further award for the best line reading is when Keaton first meets Modine and he's like, I spoke to your wife about the studio apartment. He goes, ah, my girlfriend. He's like, sorry, we don't want to rush anything, do we? It was a really good line reading.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hell yes, it is.

[Chris Ryan]

My actual flex is to turn. Turn it back to you guys. It's the Van Lathan. How would Van Lathan get out of this one? Usually this is sex adjacent, but.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

How would you guys handle this?

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Carrie comes to you and she's like, you know, it's going to be lonely without Ben here. Let's get a tenant. Next thing you know, he's changed the locks. Like, what's your first move?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a lot easier now with camera phones.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, part of the problem is they can't capture the drilling at 2:30 in the morning. And I think we also have more awareness of what to do as the landlord in this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If they, if they're in there and they're not paying, I feel like you could immediately get the police in. If he hasn't paid anything. And it didn't seem like he had a signed lease.

[Chris Ryan]

He signed the lease, just no money. It was all predicated on like, I'm gonna sign the lease, I'm gonna send you six months.

[Craig Horback]

That's why he was legally. That's why he had the rights to live there, because he signed the lease.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And he was just like, oh, there's a problem. There's a mix up at the bank.

[Craig Horback]

If you, if you're Bill, I feel like you got to bring in like a big dom. Security guy who just sits out every time he comes home. He's like, hey, Carter, where's that money?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is, this is where I bring in Gahao.

[Craig Horback]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

So Kyle, how is it, how you gotta handle.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, you gotta do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle's talking to a tenant right now.

[Chris Ryan]

Kyle, how would you handle it?

[Kyle Brandt]

Does the tenant. Chris, just indulge me in this. Does the tenant work for a private trust?

[Chris Ryan]

One that you can't with a bank at San Antonio, who the private trust is for?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, listen, the biggest idiot thing that they do, they wait way too long to call the police.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

The second Greg is shot, slamming the door in your face. We got to get the.

[Bill Simmons]

You need a record of feuding with the guy that you got to then go forward.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I. To answer your question, Chris, I would rather have like reptile pets in my house than have an actual renter. So I. I don't think I'd be in this, but I call the police early if I did.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's my thing.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you kill him with kindness every night down there with a six pack of anger, steam, being like, hey, Carter, I just want to know if you want to come upstairs. Rick Rushel's pitching. Giants are looking pretty good. No. Okay. See you tomorrow night. Be like Rick Moranis from Ghostbusters.

[Bill Simmons]

Rugby championships are on.

[Kyle Brandt]

Hey, Carter, come over for a middle water. No.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No.

[Craig Horback]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, well, I'll talk to you later, bud. I would just act like me and Carter were best friends.

[Kyle Brandt]

You know what you do, Chris? You. You're gonna. You're gonna have a Weber grill too. And you can put some ribs on there out front. And Carter, you want some medium rare? Come out. They're perfect brats.

[Chris Ryan]

Ronnie lot looking real good this season. Carter bring gre.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the other move is when he's not there, you just figure out how to break into the place.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is a way better strategy than what he tried to do of turning. Turning the lights off and the power off and all that. That's like the one. No, no, because now you're violating him. Now you're the bad guy.

[Craig Horback]

Couldn't you just get in, change the locks again? So then Keaton couldn't get back in.

[Bill Simmons]

You could.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you could say like, well, I don't lease agreement. What do you mean? He's never paid me Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. So. You already did yours, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, the last scene. His death scene sucks. But you know what doesn't suck? Chris Ryan referencing big daddy Rick Russell of the San Francisco Johnson. I loved Rick Rushell. Gave up a home run to Bo in the all star game. What do you got, Bill?

[Bill Simmons]

So Carter. Carter Hayes. I have him as the best six inning starter ever. As a villain in a movie, he can only throw 18 pitches. He looked unstoppable. He's basically. He's going through six. People are texting each other. Like you watching Carter Hayes right now.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

18 straight outs, 10 strikeouts, no walks. Like this guy's on fire. Fucking falls apart in order. He fucks up and shoots Drake. I still don't understand. We talked about he fuck up.

[Chris Ryan]

He shot Drake and put the crowbar in his hand.

[Bill Simmons]

But why? What did that get him?

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's trying to drive Drake mad so that he is gone from the situation and he can take over the house.

[Bill Simmons]

Just kill him then. Yeah, I. I didn't Understand though he leaves the childhood photo behind. You're getting out of there. You have time to pack up. But you're leaving this incredible clue. He moves to LA and stupidly sends a postcard from his new hotel to his ex girlfriend who's been looking for him, who hates him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Do that. And then he becomes Drake Goodman in the hotel. Like that's your second guess after his Carter Hayes here. No. I wonder if he stole Drake's identity. Is Drake Goodman here? He sure is. Room 1030. Would I just. I thought he played this perfectly and then it just fell apart. It's a bummer.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Bill, I'm looking at like, like Mark Pryor for the Cubs in the Steve Bartman game. It just completely when, when Carter Hayes is sprinting down the Avenue of the Stars chasing a cab. I feel bad for him. That's beneath him as a starter. You got to get him out of there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's when he's now he's like giving up nine earned runs. It's like, oh my God. He's got a no hitter is going to go up. Did you have a weight link or no?

[Chris Ryan]

No, not really. I, I liked Lori Metcalf's performance but I think it would have been cool to have like a harder charging lawyer. Like a little bit more aggressive. Maybe he gets killed by Carter.

[Bill Simmons]

The Mallory Rubin Award I threw in for. Did this movie need a better sex scene? I'd take two more. I don't think this movie has enough sex in it. No, I, I really think they should have ramped it up.

[Chris Ryan]

Carter should have brought some, some gal home to the destroy department one night.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're gonna throw that in in the first three minutes, that can't be it.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like you're trying to set a tone and then you, then you're PG13.

[Chris Ryan]

Trust me, this, the whole movie is going to be like this.

[Bill Simmons]

But why do. It's an unanswerable. But why did she demand to take her name out of the credits? I thought that was weird.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Unbuild. You know, she's like, she's like Kevin Spacey in seven. It's very.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like the fourth lead of the movie basically.

[Kyle Brandt]

But I bell I, I zag on this actually. I, I actually it's like did this movie need a worse sex scene? Because that sex scene is so good. I'd rather stay out in the desert with the two of them. I'm more intrigued by.

[Chris Ryan]

That's like the, like they're like out in white sands like I would love to know what was going on out there.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty weird. What stage? The worst. I thought the first scene just in general is pretty bizarre. Like those guys come in and they beat him up. But not really. He's fine. What lesson did he learn? And, like, why didn't they, like, break his arm? I. I didn't get that.

[Chris Ryan]

So are those people sent by the original Carter Hayes like those guys? Is the idea that he has stolen Hayes's identity and now those guys are coming after him.

[Craig Horback]

But then he still won because he. He retained that apartment. It appears.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Does that scene need to be in the movie?

[Chris Ryan]

It's almost more interesting if he just shows up.

[Kyle Brandt]

It shows how desperate he is. It shows his lifestyle and it immediately gives you a little violence and sex. I kind of like the scene actually because it's confusing, but it tells him he's mysterious.

[Bill Simmons]

I would take more violence and maybe he shows up in his arms in a cast or something.

[Chris Ryan]

Something.

[Craig Horback]

Remember the shot at the very beginning of the movie? There's like two guys driving on the road.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Craig Horback]

That never.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's the guys with the baseball bat.

[Craig Horback]

Oh, that's just the two guys.

[Kyle Brandt]

They're going out to beat him up.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The photo of him and his brother in a chimpanzee. What's going on there?

[Chris Ryan]

This is what stage? The worst.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What's going on there?

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't know. They look like they're on Neverland Ranch. Very strange photograph.

[Bill Simmons]

Johnny Charles, old man posed with the chip.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When have you ever been in a situation where you could take a photo of the chimpanzee movie? Every which way but loose?

[Chris Ryan]

Carter's like, I have responsibilities. I have to take care of my brother. What is that about?

[Bill Simmons]

And his brother. It's established. Took the state and disowned him. Yeah. I thought that. So that Shazam song you did. This is my other wood stage. The worst. I just would have put in Dinosaur junior There. They're sitting right there. Let's get, like a real band. They're not really famous yet. They need it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know they have an album out that year. I thought that could have worked. What did you have for what Sage works?

[Chris Ryan]

I think there's like some. Some moments where Hans Zimmer is doing we have to save the Earth from an astronoid music. When it's just like these two guys are just like nailing two by fours. I don't think it's that dramatic.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Die Hard 2 turned it down.

[Chris Ryan]

And I thought the combined Income of a couple made up of kite maker and a horse riding instructor doesn't even get to the 20% down for the 750k. So there must either have been a family nest egg in there and I'd like to know which one of them was spending it.

[Craig Horback]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, that would have been a good yuppie angle of like somebody saying, I don't want to have to ask my mom for money.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, if you ask me, Drake Goodman screams family lawyers, he's going his own way. Kites.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened to Drake? I heard he graduated from Harvard. So you know, kites are really taking off right now. Drake thought this luxury kite business. Oh, thought he was going to be an attorney?

[Kyle Brandt]

No, it's going on the kite route. Big kite company. Kite. Probably seasonal business too.

[Bill Simmons]

He loves kites.

[Chris Ryan]

He's going to do another round of seed investing.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're in for the series B, let me know. What do you have? For what stage do we say anything? Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

I got a young woman named Patty. You just don't see that anymore. Yeah, I hate when realtor will bring you to a place that is over your stated price range. I think it's dirty pool. It happens here. But most importantly, guys, is it entirely necessary to have Mr. Watanabe doing Tai chi in the rain in front of the banzai trees?

[Chris Ryan]

It's a casually racist movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

What are we doing? The only thing that's missing is that in the final scene when they're fighting Carter Watanabe comes back and does karate and does a kick and it's like 1990. We get it. The man is Japanese. We don't need the tai chi and the bonsai trees. It's a little heavier than that.

[Chris Ryan]

And him being like, I will pay you back somehow. And it's like, how about they're all bowing.

[Kyle Brandt]

They're constantly bowing.

[Chris Ryan]

Terrible situation. I'm out of here. Try and sue me.

[Bill Simmons]

I've made you some sushi. Yeah, what else could he have done? That would have been. Yeah, I didn't even clock that. How did I not have that in my notes?

[Kyle Brandt]

Very heavy handed. There's practically a gong there. It's just. Come on guys, we get it. He's Japanese.

[Bill Simmons]

Hans Gruber scale villain ranking Carter Hayes, I think 8.0.

[Chris Ryan]

He's pretty high up there. I mean he's a terrifying. What if, like, what if this happened to you?

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you got with 10 being Hans Gruber and one being the passenger 57 guy? Here's what hurts. Here's what hurts. Carter.

[Bill Simmons]

Three toy soldiers.

[Kyle Brandt]

Toy soldiers is three, maybe two.

[Bill Simmons]

Sudden death.

[Kyle Brandt]

Carter doesn't kill anybody in the movie, which is kind of unusual. And he doesn't give us the big old. Here is my manifesto. The system is working against me, and I will. He does a little with my. I gotta take care of my brother. But a tenant of the Gruber scales. You gotta. You gotta cook for a while and just tell everybody what you're all about.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're one monologue short.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I have him. I love the character, but on this particular scale, he's at best A6.

[Chris Ryan]

I liked it during that speech where he's like, you liked it? Didn't you like living. Living dangerously.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Ruffalo, Hannah Ribnick, Partridge overacting award. We don't even need to really go into.

[Kyle Brandt]

Say what?

[Craig Horback]

I'm out of here.

[Chris Ryan]

I had Modine 5 Budweiser drunk acting.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's all the candidate. If we did it as Oscars and there were five nominees, it's like. And Matthew Modine. And Matthew Modine. And we'd just be five different.

[Kyle Brandt]

When he turns off the utilities and does that dance, it's like the worst end zone dance you've ever seen. That like an offensive lineman picks up a fumble and does one. It's. I cannot believe they chose keep that in the movie. But they did.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, what's your flex category?

[Kyle Brandt]

I have a new category.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have the Pacific Heights Ice Cube Award for excellence in Intimacy Coordination. That move that they do to start it in which Beverly d' Angelo takes an ice cube out of the glass into her mouth, passes it directly to Carter Hayes mouth. He then takes it and rubs it all over her back. And then she goes so gentle. Like, that is an unbelievable, thrilling sequence. And my question to you guys. Did it say in the script she removes ice, tongues it into his mouth?

[Chris Ryan]

Two great artists who were just like, let's just explore this.

[Craig Horback]

Like, you know what?

[Kyle Brandt]

Long day on the set. Let's make something happen here. And there's two people whose reactions I want to that scene. One is Chevy Chase, who watched that scene is like Ellen. And he probably pushed for that shit in Vegas vacation. And then I want Pacino's reaction, which I guarantee was ooha. And he, like, wanted her number. And eventually they end up together because that is so sexy. And I just. I love that they went for that.

[Bill Simmons]

Baby, you were on fire.

[Craig Horback]

Fire. It's kind of the Peter North Award a little bit. Most effort put into a scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Great footage.

[Craig Horback]

Also, the Ice Cube exchanges is against gravity. Which is even more impressive. It doesn't go down from the top of his mind. Push it up against gravity. Very impressive.

[Kyle Brandt]

Impressive.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe they were in the film sequence.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's all ad libbed. I think this is a peaky movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love it even more.

[Bill Simmons]

And Bev and Teens were like, yeah, let's fuck around here.

[Kyle Brandt]

Let's try something here. Let's just roll with it. Just keep rolling. Let's do this. And it's just awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

It's very sweet. Would you call that the Pacific Heights?

[Kyle Brandt]

The Pacific Heights Ice Cube Award for Excellence in intimacy Coordination.

[Bill Simmons]

Not bad. I'm going to add it. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Had us take a word.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't really have one. Except for. For maybe like. I think Patty should have given like five minutes of thought to sticking with Carter and becoming the new an. Just because like Pretty hot. First of all he's. He shows that he's willing to get his hands dirty when it comes to Remo renovations and demolitions.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And also like this is a guy with plans and ambition. He's not content just sitting around doing kite making.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty good.

[Craig Horback]

I like that your pivot now is that people should stay with the crazy person in the.

[Chris Ryan]

That was my idea. It seems like De Mornay's just got it all things figured out.

[Bill Simmons]

Should we be worried that Ciara sided with the from Hell character in every movie I have. I think I learned more about Leonard Landlord tenant rights from this movie than any human being in my life. Any story.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this movie was incredibly impactful and doesn't get its just due. I can't think of another situation movie TV real life that taught me more than this did. In 102 minutes. And that's it. What do you got? Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

It's incredible. They. They. Once they get in they have the right to due process. And that's expensive and long. And I completely agree with you. I would watch this to learn about that exact crime. Mine is really close to Chris's. This is a better movie if the huge twist at the end is that Carter and Drake are working together.

[Bill Simmons]

Ooh.

[Kyle Brandt]

And when Melanie is up in the hotel room and she's slipping through the documents she comes across her boyfriend photo them together.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's the brother.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes. His name is not Drake Goodman. He's been. And they're been working on this for months. Remember they're not married and they make a point of saying they're not married like five or six different times. So this is relatively new. And I think that they're in cahoots and in tandem. The fight was kind of staged, I think. Drake Goodman.

[Chris Ryan]

Twice in the arm.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Twice in the arm. I think they. Drake Goodman caused the miscarriage, like, all kinds of things, but the terror in her face when she finds out. Oh, my God, they're in on it together. That's a better movie you could even have.

[Bill Simmons]

He decides he's gonna be a luxury kite maker as to throw people off the scent.

[Chris Ryan]

And Carter's like, no one will ever believe.

[Bill Simmons]

And you play rugby. This is crazy. Will people believe this? That's really good. She could have held the photo up and been like, yes, casting what ifs. I only have one. Christopher Reeve really wanted to be Carter Hayes lobbied the director, and sadly for Christopher Reeve, Keaton was Batman and wanted to be in the movie. And that was a wrap for Christopher Reeve. So I don't see Christopher Reeve in this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

They wanted Superman or Batman. Like, that's pretty cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Amazing. Two choices. Who would have been the third person?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I heard Tobey Maguire wanted to do it, but he was, like, 10 years old. They couldn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, look at the best that guy category. It's stacked. It is.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it is.

[Bill Simmons]

We have Dan hedaya, one scene, Mrs. Watanabe, played by Nobu McCarthy, Mr. Miyagi's long lost love. And Karate Kid 2. You karate? You KK2 guy, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

Hell, yes, I am. Beautiful story. The instruments at the end.

[Craig Horback]

I love it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Fortune. I'm into it.

[Bill Simmons]

Danielson this time. Not for points. For life.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Carl Lumbry.

[Chris Ryan]

Lumley.

[Bill Simmons]

Carl Lumley. Cagney and Lacey. Cast member. Also played Bobby Seale and just some of the Falcon.

[Chris Ryan]

The winter soldier stuff. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Jerry Harden playing Bennett Fidlow. You might know him from X Files in the Firm. And then you mentioned Tracy Walters, the cockroach exterminator. Sadly, none of these people win.

[Chris Ryan]

I gotta go. Dorian Harewood.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he's that guy. I think he was famous at one point.

[Kyle Brandt]

Which guy is he, Chris?

[Bill Simmons]

He's the one buddy that he has.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the one buddy.

[Craig Horback]

He has.

[Bill Simmons]

He's pretty good, though.

[Chris Ryan]

I have him winning because he played eight ball in Full Metal Jacket. So he and Bodine were in the same squad in Full Metal Jacket.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's good.

[Kyle Brandt]

Mine's not on the list either, though.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two more.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay, go. Do it. Do it, do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Nicholas Pryor is the hotel manager. You know him as the Risky Business dad. And more importantly Chancellor Arnold from 90210.

[Chris Ryan]

Uh huh.

[Bill Simmons]

My winner is Luca Bercovici.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who played Muzzin in American Flyers with Kevin Costner the bad guy biker. And is just a home run in that movie. And then really never kind of bounced around after that.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a good time to ask what is Greg's utility here like?

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Carter can't do that. That demolition himself.

[Bill Simmons]

He's helping out with ruining the apartment for no reason.

[Chris Ryan]

Carter needed a hand doing that. It's a studio apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

Needed some help.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you have, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

I had Hal Landon Jr. When they go and do the. The locksmith to finally get in. The officer there with the pattern baldness. He's Ted's dad from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. And that's like the only thing I've ever seen him in. Deputy Van Halen is one scene in this the year later. That was my guy. But these are a lot of excellent choices.

[Bill Simmons]

Really, really loaded category. I think my favorite is probably Mr. Miyagi's long lost love and Karate Kid.

[Kyle Brandt]

I do too.

[Bill Simmons]

You know. Sato kind of up their relationship. I felt like. Dion Waiter's a word. I can offer you Beverly d'. Angelo. The Watanabes or the Cockroach Exterminator.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll do it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bev.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Bev.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. She takes it all.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director City. I can offer you young Denzel Washington as the tenant that got turned down. Right in his range, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

1990s, a little. He's.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he famous at that point?

[Chris Ryan]

That's post glory. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Kyle Brandt]

How about Sam Jackson?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, oh, 90 Jackson.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have De Palma for this though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the Palma doing Pacific Heights would have been fucking awesome. I'm just. I can't stop staring at Seagal's shirt.

[Chris Ryan]

It's really. It is distracting.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really great.

[Kyle Brandt]

And Young is so happy to be in the court.

[Chris Ryan]

It looks like they're together watching the Chicago Bulls. Who Kyle has to the left of him.

[Kyle Brandt]

You never thought you needed Tony Kukroch and Mason Storm together. But we got him.

[Bill Simmons]

Two big threes in a row. Half asset research. Carter Hayes drives a 1977 Porsche 911 Carrera Targa. It's a fucking elite car.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not really research. It's just respect.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just an elite, elite car. This is my favorite. I was researching Melanie Griffith. Joanne Woodward told a 17 year old Melanie on the set of the Drowning Pool that her goals were to marry a Movie star have beautiful babies and win an Oscar. And she did all three. Melanie said she adopted the goals for herself. She married a movie star and had beautiful babies but never won the Oscar. Well, it's never get nominated.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Joanne Woodward. Who didn't you have a moment. A Joanne Woodward moment like that with anyone. Sierra.

[Chris Ryan]

Like where somebody passes along like James

[Bill Simmons]

Corden's like, here are my three goals. I want to host a terrible World cup soccer show when I have my own late night show.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What have I done of those?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Just. Apex Mountain Keaton.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, this is it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to say yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, I think it is too.

[Chris Ryan]

Although it's a love of Apex Mountain being a poison chalice sometimes like you make the wrong move from the apex. You know for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Or the right move.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Melanie Griffith. No. Matthew Modine.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Full Metal Jacket.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes. I think it's the Kubrick lead in the Kubrick movie.

[Bill Simmons]

You got to do that.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Ominously playing with a razor. Has it ever been done better?

[Kyle Brandt]

I think of Kevin Spacey cutting his fingertips off seven. And then of course Paul slicing the. The garlic. But it's close.

[Chris Ryan]

Boy, those are two really good razor. Razor shots better.

[Bill Simmons]

Creepy cockroach scene.

[Craig Horback]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

Cockroach is notoriously difficult to work with on film sets.

[Kyle Brandt]

What's that stupid movie? Joe's Apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Craig Horback]

Jerry o'.

[Kyle Brandt]

Connell. Isn't that a cockroach based movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I must did this as my hottest takes. Cockroaches. Kind of overrated. Seems super scary in a movie. But if you have to. They can't. They can't bite. They're just kind of creepy.

[Craig Horback]

I think they're like the scariest thing in the world. I'd rather kill myself.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they're scary.

[Craig Horback]

And if I was Mr. Watanabe, I would have just offed myself.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm more scared of roaches than mice. I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

I think rats are way more scary than cockroaches.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Craig Horback]

Roaches, they're infinite and like they'll never go away. They just breed in your pipes. They completely freak me out. And a lot of them can fly. Which.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you get them?

[Craig Horback]

I've had a few roaches in my life. Never like an infestation, but I hate them.

[Bill Simmons]

We had termites in our first LA place and. Oh yeah, that sucks.

[Kyle Brandt]

Did you have to tent it?

[Bill Simmons]

That was bad.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have to tent it?

[Bill Simmons]

It's like out of a movie they start multiplying. You see the wings? It fucking sucks.

[Craig Horback]

If Spencer Pratt was like, we're getting rid of the roaches, he would have had that vote.

[Bill Simmons]

That's all I had to do.

[Kyle Brandt]

Look at you, Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

San Francisco movie houses. No, we've done this before. Is it Mrs. Doubtfire?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, movie houses. Yeah, Doubtfire and the stuff in Basic Instinct. Although.

[Kyle Brandt]

And I think Full House on tv. That one's people gonna take pictures in

[Bill Simmons]

front of that Porsche 911 Carrera Targa. Yes. For 77 evil tenants in movies. 100% annoying yuppies in a movie, maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

And then casual 90s racism. Sadly, no. Okay, Cruz or Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Cruz has got to play Carter. This is.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's it. I want.

[Chris Ryan]

I have responsibilities. Patty.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz would have said no until they showed him the last scene. So he's going to run out of the JW marriage at full speed. He's like, what?

[Chris Ryan]

This would have been. Cruise would have been like, this is like my Ripley. This is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Cruz would have caught them if he was running out of the Avenue of the Stars. Also, Cruz doing the Ice Cube scene with d'. Angelo, this is the same year that he did Days of Thunder and is taking a Sweet and Low packet up Nicole Kidman's thigh on the inside of. It's like, those are brother and sister scenes. I think he could have done it.

[Bill Simmons]

He could have done half Ice Cube followed by just them laughing for 20 seconds.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's also just a ton of cocktails. You know, like, he could have thrown the champagne glass in the air, caught it, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What would have been Cruise's skill for this? The nail gun. Like, I worked with the nail gun for two months.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I think it's mimicry. I think it's becoming different people to, like, steal their identities.

[Kyle Brandt]

That razor blade, too. He's working that work in the time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, but he has the smoke.

[Craig Horback]

The cockroach crawling on Keaton's fingers. Cruise would have gotten into that.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Yeah. That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

The rose from Titanic award for character. Who sneaky sucks.

[Craig Horback]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Drake Goodman qualifier or does he openly suck? Yeah, yeah, he openly sucks. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Crossing that up. Best name for a movie from a racehorse. Best name from movie for a racehorse. Evil tenant.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I think is a really good Kentucky Derby name.

[Chris Ryan]

Jim Danford name.

[Kyle Brandt]

Not a great name.

[Bill Simmons]

Jim Danford. That is good.

[Kyle Brandt]

Unless you want to go with Kite Company. It just. It flies.

[Bill Simmons]

Luxury Kite Company. Hey, we don't get to do this too often.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really. It's for cr. The Dennis Peck relationship test. Could Dennis have broken up the main relationship?

[Chris Ryan]

No. But I'll tell you what, Dennis would have gotten that guy out of the fucking apartment. They just needed a dirtier cop. That would have been the easiest way to do this. Is just like, get a cop. He's like, I don't give a shit what it says. You're out of here.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Dennis comes over, the guys at the kite company job and what was her name in this? Patty.

[Chris Ryan]

Patty.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't get that guy out, huh? What'd your boyfriend do? Luxury kite company. Huh? What are you doing now? Wanna get a drink?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's in. I think he's in with Patty in two hours. You like to ride horses? Picky nits. We did a lot of these. Carter moves in without a rental agreement. Why didn't Drake just open the door with his keys and kick this fucking asshole out before?

[Chris Ryan]

I think the first thing he does

[Bill Simmons]

is change the lock, open the key, open the door. Here's an underrated one for picking. It's.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Anytime in a movie or TV show, somebody thinks a cat's gonna be good luck.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Never good luck.

[Chris Ryan]

Just. Just. I don't think I've ever seen a thriller where a cat is introduced. But it's like, don't worry about it.

[Craig Horback]

Famously bad luck. Cats.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horback]

Like, if black cats are.

[Bill Simmons]

You moved into a place with Liz. If a cat was just outside the door, like, I brought. I brought this cat in, it would be good luck. You'd be like, get that fucking cat out of here.

[Craig Horback]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

My wife and I currently have a betting pool on the cat in the Cape Fear TV show.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Peanut Butter just keeps sitting there on the counter.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, yeah, Peanut Butter's done. Carter Hayes's strategy is he's going to drive them into foreclosure and pick up the property, we think, and get it for cheaper.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that there was a twofold thing. I think it was. There's the initial, like, I'm going to drive these people out and then receive the property as, like, my civil, like, settlement. And then when that seems like it's not going to work, he just shoots Drake. I think he still takes his identity. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And then how do they restore the house the second time after they'd been clean out? Living month by month.

[Kyle Brandt]

It looks beautiful. New floors.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe the Danforth estate gave them a little bit of money to shut up about it.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like she should have had more money from the hotel room. Yeah, that should have been like $75,000 behind the scenes he looked like it

[Kyle Brandt]

was, like a grand. Like it was a stack. A small stack of hundreds. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not enough. Any other nitpicks? We did most of them.

[Chris Ryan]

Not really. I mean, we've talked about most of them, but, like, the identity thief who keeps his entire life story in a suitcase and the con man who sends a postcard with a return address.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you have that in your house, Seaard? Like, just your scrapbook?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Spin magazine and Grantland. Sequel, prequel. Prestige tv, all black caster, untouchable, Apple

[Chris Ryan]

TV written all over it.

[Bill Simmons]

All over it. I can't believe they haven't done it yet.

[Chris Ryan]

There was a 20, 21, 22 TV series being kicked around that did a gender swap. So I assume. I assume Carter would have been a lady.

[Bill Simmons]

All black cast would have worked, too. I mean, honestly, prequel would have worked. Sequel absolutely would have worked. If you don't kill Carter Hayes and he just gets away Michael Myers style at the end, I'm in for that.

[Kyle Brandt]

The Carter Hayes Chronicle prequel is good, but all black cast. You then have a moment where you're like, I guess you're thinking right now, I should have rented to the white man.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it would be all of it. It's perfect. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Florist, Zane Lowe, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nicholas, the owner of the Luxury Kite company, or someone else? What do you have? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

I just want to say up top, I would pay to watch a movie where this guy tries to pull this on either Wayne Jenkins or Fergie as his landlord. You're gonna get out of this house for me, or I'm gonna do you the way I did your brother. That chemical way. But it would be. Would be cool to have Zayn talk to Carter afterwards. Like, Carter, talk him up. You've extorted, you've trespassed, and you've identity thieved. What's next for you, man? What's the next con? And is it all a con? This whole thing? Life?

[Kyle Brandt]

Is life a con?

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have, Kyle?

[Kyle Brandt]

I have Bill. Bill. I feel like I'm gonna steal yours right now. But there's a. There's a sliding doors moment when Carter Hayes is running out of the hotel into the street. If he actually goes right, he goes into a ballroom. And the keynote speaker is Dr. Charles Nichols.

[Chris Ryan]

Nichols.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's sitting there and he's like, carter, I'm in the middle of this speech. And Carter goes, you switched off the utilities, didn't you? You switched the utilities after I Shot Drake. You were the only one with the access. Did you evict the watanabes too?

[Bill Simmons]

Huh?

[Kyle Brandt]

Did you? And he's like, sorry, ladies and gentlemen, my friend Carter Hayes.

[Chris Ryan]

That doesn't relate to that black guy. Yes, but you stole him.

[Kyle Brandt]

The application never came. So enjoy your. Your coffee and dessert and we'll talk. Carter, please. He's. He's there. He's always there.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great one. I thought you're gonna do Gus there.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, the. Gus wasn't there. But the weird thing about the ballroom is at the end of it, Borat and Azamat run in naked too. Like the place comes down.

[Bill Simmons]

We could have done a little Ryan Ruko for Carter Hayes falling backwards. Got it. Just one Oscar.

[Kyle Brandt]

Who? That would have been good.

[Chris Ryan]

In honor of Modine, super Nicks fan.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? I guess Keaton.

[Chris Ryan]

I guess so.

[Bill Simmons]

Not Hans Zimmer? Yeah, probably. An answerable questions. I only have one. Did these two losers stay together or was it like a break up?

[Chris Ryan]

I want to know how long you guys thought they had been been together before this movie. Like, you know, like up to the point of buying the house. Is this a one year, one year thing?

[Kyle Brandt]

I think it's really short. I actually had six months. I think they're very impulsive people.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's. At least you don't buy a house with somebody unless I know years two, three years.

[Chris Ryan]

In 1990.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like year two years. I think at that point, I don't think he was with her when she got hurt during the equestrian race.

[Chris Ryan]

They realized they have absolutely nothing to say to each other. After about a week.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't even have like. Like a lunch scene where she's like, I thought I'd surprise you at work.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh no. They don't seem to like each other that much. She's even kind of like, what are you doing here? When he shows up at the horse.

[Bill Simmons]

They really brought the set into the movie. Memorability you'd most want from the movie, Kyle.

[Kyle Brandt]

I want that little model house. I want.

[Bill Simmons]

House was cool.

[Chris Ryan]

The fake Drake Goodman ID stuff. So his. His Visa card. Like the old Visa card?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the old passport. FinStock. Mr. Miyagi Word. Best. Worst life lesson. I mean, this one has a pretty obvious one.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't be a landlord.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, just don't let the person in. Don't let. Do the. Sign the lease. I'll pay you later. Like get fucking money. Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Kids, if you ever hear the phrase I don't have a traditional kind of credit run. That's not what you want.

[Craig Horback]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Or they mentioned their bank in San Antonio. You're out. Double Fe. What'd you have, KB?

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay, so this is interesting. I had Mr. Mom because it's really nice, fun. Michael Keaton. But I have to tell you, I was watching the movie Pacific Heights on Prime Amazon, and it goes to the next movie. And the next movie was unfaithful. And I was like, fuck, yes. And I watched the first half hour. It's like a con man. It's all that. So I went right into it and I liked it.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I had two. One was the money pit from 1986, the Tom Hanks movie about.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one.

[Chris Ryan]

Losing your mind, trying to save your home. And the other was a little bit different War of the Roses, just because it's like kind of being trapped in a house with somebody.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I did Single A Female. We did the Roommate Tenant.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

We just go, what do you have,

[Craig Horback]

Craig for double feature, Probably Transformers.

[Kyle Brandt]

Transformers one Roses.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, who won the movie? Keaton.

[Chris Ryan]

Keaton.

[Kyle Brandt]

Michael Keaton after Batman. Another dub as a villain. Why? I like this movie, Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't wait for your take. Here we go. Craig loves From Hellmuth. I do.

[Craig Horback]

These are what real movies should be. You can watch them at noon on a Monday. They're great. I liked. What I liked about this one is that there was much more mystery. Typically it was like domestic disturbance or Hand that Rocks the Cradle. And you kind of just know the motive from the beginning and you're just waiting to get to the end. I enjoy that. This movie, they treat Keaton like Jaws a little bit. And you're like, I don't really know what he's up to. I don't see him a whole lot. Who's Greg? What's going on in la? And I think it's why the whole mystery takes you down to la and it's why that scene is so good. But I think this is one of the more satisfying From Hell movies because you actually get the plot to take this person down rather than just the big fight at the end results in the villain dying. This was like. Oh, for like 20 minutes. I get Melanie Griffith actually plotting to get back at this guy, and it's working. And I feel like that was more satisfying. Also. This movie's kind of the inspiration for the show Beef, if you think. I mean, it's kind of like a

[Chris Ryan]

From Hell month has definitely got some of that. It's like road rage but for real

[Craig Horback]

estate kind of vibes. And it's very relatable in that regard. I also think it's kind of just a great look at how men and women deal with problems differently. Yeah. This is like a great Men not being able to admit they're wrong movie. Like, I can handle this, Patty. It's like, honey, do you. Don't you want to just pull up a map and get directions? Like, no, no, I know how to get there.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, it's like, basically we're driving north.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah. It's a great Men vers women dealing with problems movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great call.

[Bill Simmons]

Thumbs up. You've enjoyed From Hellmont.

[Chris Ryan]

Great.

[Craig Horback]

I'm having a blast.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, these are great. There's lots more. It's just. Maybe this is just the rest of 2026.

[Kyle Brandt]

What's on the horizon? Hell?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we've done Domestic disturbance in the

[Chris Ryan]

Good sun, had the Rocks of Cradle. Single White Female.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And there's a couple. Couple winners left. Yeah, there really is scouting. I've been scouting some other ones that I wasn't sure, and.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, How'd it go?

[Bill Simmons]

There's some bad ones. I watched Save Me on MGM with Harry Hamlin and Lisette Anthony.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, come on. We can't do that.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's like, it was. I thought it was a.

[Chris Ryan]

Or we have to, like. We have to do like, the re Godfather somewhere in there.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, it was terrible to cleanse the palette.

[Bill Simmons]

It was truly, truly awful. But I just. I. You know, just looking around, one that

[Kyle Brandt]

you've mentioned before that I always have gotten so entertained by is Cop From Hell, Unlawful Entry. And what's really fun about that movie is Madeline Stowe's character is named Karen. And so you get Ray Liotta going, you're a Cockties or Karen. And it's like, right after Goodfellas. It's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

That's. Kurt Russell's in that, right?

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he's also in Breakdown. Double from Hell Duty.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Breakdown's one of our favorites.

[Craig Horback]

Do we have a good modern from Hell movie? All these movies are from the 90s.

[Chris Ryan]

What's like the. No, I mean, like, going to the 2000. I can't remember when's Perfect Getaway? Like the. When's that movie? Let me see.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it kind of ended in the 2000s.

[Chris Ryan]

Perfect getaway is 0909.

[Bill Simmons]

I just feel like this moved to Lifetime and then they did every single version of them. But another one that we've talked about doing because Van Loves is the fan With Robert De Niro and Denisio and Wesley Snipes with the worst ending probably of any sports group of all time. But it's still really fun. And it's Tony Scott.

[Craig Horback]

I mean, to be honest, is Obsession kind of like the girlfriend from hell

[Chris Ryan]

or the boyfriend from hell?

[Kyle Brandt]

Sure, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Obsession.

[Craig Horback]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You think that could be in there?

[Chris Ryan]

I would know. I don't know if it's from hell, but it's. It's pretty. It would be pretty fun to do Obsession as a rewatchable.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, this would be a good.

[Chris Ryan]

We haven't done a 2026 movie yet.

[Bill Simmons]

No, we're due.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it'll probably be the Odyssey, right?

[Chris Ryan]

I guess so.

[Kyle Brandt]

I mean, it could be Dune Part three. Bill, let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

He's got to see the first two dunes.

[Bill Simmons]

Could we do it from Hell? Good morning, football. There's a new person on the show, former football player who just wants to hang out and then it just starts going sideways.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have a quip, but I'm not going to say it because it would get me in trouble.

[Bill Simmons]

There's another one that I think I'm the only one who likes it. But it's a great, great, great from Hell movie that I highly recommend if you like my recommendations.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad Influence with Rob Lowe and Joe.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, we were talking about this.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that movie's really good. It's Curtis Hansen's first movie. I just think it's excellent. But nobody's seen it.

[Chris Ryan]

That'd be great.

[Kyle Brandt]

I haven't seen it.

[Chris Ryan]

Just did the entire Hanson filmography.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you would like Bad Influence. Anyway.

[Kyle Brandt]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle Brandt, this was a pleasure as always. Thanks for joining us.

[Kyle Brandt]

Thank you, cr. Thank you, the whole Storm family.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, Craig. Thanks to Chris and Gahao and Eduardo as well. And we will see you next time on the rewatchables.

[Kyle Brandt]

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