The Rewatchables – ‘Rocky II’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Date: December 2, 2025
Participants: Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan (CR), Van Lathan, Craig

Episode Overview

This episode features Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan diving deep into Rocky II (1979). This is the podcast’s twelfth Sylvester Stallone-centric film and revisits the continuation of one of cinema’s most iconic underdog stories. The hosts dissect the film’s legacy, structure, and place within the larger “Rocky” franchise, discussing why it stands as a crucial turning point not just for Rocky Balboa, but also for its star, writer, and director—Sylvester Stallone.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sequels & The Rocky Franchise (04:03–07:59)

• Rocky II marks a transition from the first film’s character drama to the sports-action franchise that defined the ‘80s.
  • Van Lathan: “This movie is kind of the actual beginning of the Rocky franchise as being a sports action movie franchise. The first one is a very small drama… but this movie… the world is forming for the lore of Rocky to deepen and become what it’s going to become.” (05:36)
• It’s described as a “remastered” or “remake” sequel, closely following the structure of the original but with some technical upgrades and emotional tweaks.
  • Sierra: “What I like so much about Rocky II is that it is essentially a remastered version of Rocky… beat for beat, the story is relatively the same.” (06:45)

2. The Purity and Impact of Sequels (08:00–10:21)

• The hosts discuss how sequels became a moneymaking strategy in Hollywood, with Rocky II exemplifying both the desire to revisit beloved characters and the risk of diminishing originality.
  • Bill Simmons: “This was the purest form of a sequel where that Rocky, the original one, had a beginning, middle, and end. And it was supposed to end. And then people loved the character… And then everybody was kind of like, can this guy come back?” (08:00)
• Simmons recalls the memorable communal experience of seeing Rocky II in theaters, where fans cheered “like it was a real sporting event.” (09:00)

3. Structural Critiques—The Pacing and “Coma” (10:21–11:35, 33:15–34:10)

• The film’s pacing, especially the infamous “coma” sequence (an 11-minute real-time interlude), draws both affection and criticism.
  • Sierra: “This is only rewatchable in the sense that if you do not know where it’s going, it is unwatchable.” (10:38)
  • Bill Simmons: “Think how long 11 minutes is… but it does lead to—she finally wakes up and says, yeah, about that fight. I just want one thing. Win.” (33:15)
• The slow, methodical sections are contrasted with the final 28 minutes, often cited as some of the best in sports film history.

4. Stallone’s Career, Directorial Control & The Look of “Rocky” (12:20–15:04)

• The hosts break down how Stallone used Rocky II to regain his status after a couple of flops (“FIST,” “Paradise Alley”) and insisted on directing to ensure creative control.
  • Bill Simmons: “Stallone basically says, I have to direct or I’m not gonna be involved… $7 million budget, makes $200.1 million… sets up the next 15 years of him being an A plus lister because he proved people wanted to come back to see Sly Stone.” (13:41)
• Discussion of Stallone’s changing physique, rumors about steroid use, and how his look evolves throughout the franchise.

5. The Climactic Last 28 Minutes & Iconic Running Scene (16:02–17:48)

• The final act (the training montage, kids chasing Rocky, and the climactic fight) is highly celebrated for its emotional payoff and pure cinematic inspiration.
  • Van Lathan: “Just Rocky running with all the kids after all of this time. It should not be moving. But you want the guy to win. You want that guy to figure his life out… the scene gets the whales out of you.” (16:25)
  • Discussion of the logistics and length of Rocky’s run through Philadelphia (30.2 miles, possibly the most unrealistic training montage in sports cinema).

6. Character Analyses: Apollo Creed, Pauly, and Mickey

• Apollo Creed is dissected as both a Muhammad Ali homage and as a fascinatingly complex, emotionally driven, and ultimately tragic figure.
  • Sierra: “He’s also, right at that moment… playing three different characters. There’s the character in the ring, at home, and… who is just being filmed at press conferences…” (21:54)
• Paulie is called “the most big time fucking scumbag character I’ve ever seen,” and the podcast ponders the tradition of the “plague” supporting character in both Rocky and other sports films.
• Mickey’s over-the-top, gravelly coaching is both beloved and lampooned, with Bill debating whether it’s one of the great supporting roles or simply too much.

7. Real-Life Boxing Parallels & Ebert/Ali Commentary (18:11–20:07)

• The hosts share Roger Ebert’s memories of watching the film with Muhammad Ali, who saw Apollo as a clear self-portrait and critiqued Stallone’s boxing as “acting, not boxing.”
  • Ali's Quote: “For the black man to come out superior would be against all America’s teachings. I have been so great at boxing, they had to create an image like Rocky—a white image on the screen to counteract my image in the ring.” (19:41)
• Ali predicted Adrian would recover and Rocky would win—a prophecy that plays out in the film.

8. The Training Montages and Sports Movie Logic (34:10–39:52)

• The podcast dissects the duality of the Rocky and Apollo training montages, contrasting neighborhood camaraderie and community (Rocky) with ego-driven, punishing solo work (Apollo).
  • Van Lathan: “Rocky is training in his neighborhood… whereas Apollo’s training is ego driven and focused on himself. It’s clear they’re fighting for different things.” (38:43)
• Discusses the over-the-top nature of 15-round fights, the plausibility of the double-KO ending, and the alleged real-life tension between Stallone and Carl Weathers during filming the final fight.

9. Awards & Category Highlights

• Sasha Jenkins Award for The Guy I Can’t Believe Isn’t a Bigger Star: Carl Weathers gets universal praise for his range, charisma, and physicality. (52:52)
• Best Use of Running in Movies: Stallone’s sprint with the kids is hailed as the “best running in film history.”
• Notable Needle Drops: “Gonna Fly Now” accompanying the training montage is called out as a classic sports movie music cue.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The last 28 minutes of the movie… is the best run of a rewatchable movie. Every single moment is perfect.”
  — Bill Simmons (16:02–16:23)

• “I have been so great at boxing, they had to create an image like Rocky—a white image on the screen to counteract my image in the ring.”—Muhammad Ali quoted by Roger Ebert (19:41)

• “What are we waiting for?” — a phrase the hosts propose renaming their “OK, Motherfucker” benchmark category to, because it signals the moment a rewatchable movie truly kicks into its highest gear (35:01–36:38)

• “Rocky II is the most important of the Rocky movies to me.”
  — Van Lathan (05:17)

• “It assumes that you care so deeply about the character. Because if you don’t, you just don’t care about Adrienne getting her part time job at the pet shop… But at the end, that’s kind of why it works, is because when he’s holding that belt at the end of the movie, all of those feelings just come pouring out of you.”
  — Van Lathan (11:06)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 04:03 – Breakdown of Stallone’s catalog and where Rocky II fits (+ franchise comparisons)
• 05:17 – Van Lathan on why Rocky II matters most
• 06:45 – Sierra: “Remake” sequel structure analysis
• 09:00 – Simmons recalls seeing Rocky II in a cheering theater
• 10:38–11:35 – Critique/defense of the infamous “coma” sequence
• 13:41 – Stallone’s power move for directing/creative control
• 16:02–17:48 – The legendary final act and running scene
• 18:11–20:07 – Ebert/Ali’s real-world context and commentary
• 21:54 – Apollo Creed as multi-level character; race and media discussion
• 33:15–34:10 – Analysis of coma sequence and the “Well, what are we waiting for?” category
• 35:01–36:38 – Proposal to rename the “OK, Motherfucker” rewatchable movie benchmark
• 38:43–39:52 – Contrasts in the training montages
• 46:06 – ‘70s/‘80s boxing (15-round fights, hate mail, Roberto Duran cameo)
• 52:52–53:58 – Carl Weathers appreciation segment

Fun Facts & Half-Assed Internet Research

• Rocky’s epic run: If accurate, his run through Philly covers 30.2 miles—well over a marathon, culminating in the dead sprint up the Art Museum steps. (39:41–39:52)
• Stallone’s filming accident: The “fight right-handed” subplot may have been forced by a real weightlifting injury to Stallone’s pectoral muscle, though the hosts debate the veracity of this claim. (48:22)
• 800 children: Were used as extras in the running montage. (85:28)
• Roger Ebert wrote a feature on viewing Rocky II with Ali—Ali called out Stallone’s “acting, not boxing,” but the experience lent the film a unique layer of authenticity. (18:11–19:45)
• Adrian’s coma: Not just a creative choice—it was written in because Talia Shire was filming another movie and unavailable for part of the shoot. (49:17)

1979 & Sports Movie Tropes

• Mortgage jokes: Buying a Philly house for $16k with a 9.5% rate—“Aged the worst: a young couple being able to afford a house.” (44:37)
• 15-round fights & regular TV title bouts: Hallmarks of boxing’s past, now replaced by international PPV spectacles. (47:25)
• Hate mail instead of tweets: “It’s a lot of energy to write out a letter. Dear Apollo, kill yourself. Fuck you… Sincerely, Chris Ryan.” (47:48)

Rewatchable Categories (Selected Winners/Speculation)

• Sasha Jenkins Award: Carl Weathers
• Dion Waiters Award: Brent Musburger—inspired, semi-ad-libbed color commentary
• Best Movie Runner: Stallone, beating Tom Cruise for realism and intensity
• Biggest Weak Link: Paulie’s character and Rocky’s implausible victory (61:02)
• Best Needle Drop: “Gonna Fly Now” during the running montage (57:20)
• Best Piece of Memorabilia: The Beast aftershave bottle or Apollo’s trunks
• Best Life Lesson: “Don’t read your hate mail”; “Listen to your trainer”

Hot Takes & Alternate Endings

• Sierra: “If [Stallone] had listened to his more sensitive, creative side, this movie would have been called Creed and it would have been the Godfather II of sports movies.” (73:12)
• Van Lathan: “Rocky and Apollo’s lives would have been much better if they swapped wives.” (74:29)
• Simmons: “Best looking black women of the 1970s—Apollo’s wife (Sylvia Meals) makes the list.” (75:38)

Overall Tone

Candid, nostalgic, and irreverent—these are movie fans who mix sincere appreciation with comedic digs and half-earnest fan theories. The spirit is debate, celebration, and poking fun—often at the film, each other, and the very idea of Hollywood sequels.

Final Verdict

While Rocky II is structurally slower and more methodical than its predecessor or its more bombastic sequels, the hosts agree that its emotional payoff is huge and critical for transitioning Rocky from gritty ‘70s character drama to a pure-blooded ‘80s sports franchise.

Who won the movie?
Unanimous: Sylvester Stallone—writer, star, director, and the man whose creative will turned Rocky Balboa into a global icon.

“He directed, wrote it… [Rocky II] sets up the next 15 years for him being an A plus lister.”
— Bill Simmons (13:41; 109:03)

Listen for:

• The deep-dive breakdown of structural movie remakes as sequels (06:45)
• The “Well, what are we waiting for?” discussion (35:01)
• The legendary running montage (16:25)
• Carl Weathers and the alternate Creed II perspective (73:12)
• Ali’s razor-sharp take on the existence of “Rocky” (19:41)

For newcomers and Rocky veterans alike, this episode is a love letter to the franchise’s heart and heartache—equal parts hilarious, nostalgic, and insightful.