‘Single White Female’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin

Summary

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The Rewatchables: ‘Single White Female’ (“From Hell Month”)

Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Van Lathan, Mallory Rubin, Craig Horlbeck
Date: June 8, 2026
Film Discussed: Single White Female (1992)

Episode Overview

The Rewatchables kicks off "From Hell Month" with the definitive 'Roommate from Hell' thriller: Single White Female. Bill Simmons is joined by Van Lathan, Mallory Rubin, and Craig Horlbeck for a deep dive into the psychosexual cult classic that left a generation traumatized by pixie haircuts, answering machines, and golden retriever puppies. The crew explores why the movie holds up as an erotic thriller, the off-screen intrigue between its leads, the film’s notable fashion and sexual politics, the trope of the “crazy woman,” and its legacy as a defining ‘90s pulp. The discussion is energetic, funny, and occasionally raunchy—much like the movie itself.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• From Hell Month Launch: Opens the series covering movies that epitomize the “From Hell” trope—spouses, friends, pets, and, here, roommates that become nightmare figures.
• Why Single White Female Endures: Panelists break down the specific alchemy of fear, sexuality, and ambiguity that keeps the film rewatchable.
• '90s Culture & Movie History: Contextualizes the film within the '90s erotic thriller boom, exploring its representations of gender, sexuality, and urban paranoia.
• Performance Deep-Dive: Focus on the unique energy brought by leads Bridget Fonda and Jennifer Jason Leigh, including off-screen gossip and on-screen chemistry.
• Film Tropes and Legacy: Engages with classic tropes—iconic haircuts, memorable weaponry, dated technology, and lessons that live on.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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What Makes Single White Female "From Hell" Material?

(Starts ~02:26 - 05:30)

• Simmons introduces the “From Hell” concept—a series of movies where ordinary relationships curdle into terror: roommate, boss, pet, cop, child, etc.
• Mallory Rubin: “What isn’t it about the movie? It has everything… sex and intrigue and terror…psychosis and deep-rooted fear… distressingly violence against animals…” [04:44]
• The 'Roommate from Hell' premise is executed with “nothing subtle,” necessary for the genre. [05:07]

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The Power & Pathos of the Movie’s Central Relationship

(05:30 - 08:54; 13:20 - 16:15)

• Van Lathan on the seriousness: “This movie takes itself seriously… a drama with real-world stakes…” [06:13]
• “Do I want to fuck you, kill you, or be you?”—the fundamental, sometimes sexual, tension between Hetty (Jennifer Jason Leigh) and Ally (Bridget Fonda).
• Jennifer Jason Leigh’s casting as Hetty: “Debauched in the best possible way.” — Mallory [15:19]
• Mallory: “The early, subtle indicators that something is lurking beneath the surface” are what make the character so scary.[17:19]

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The Bridget Fonda/Sandra Bullock “What If” Game

(09:18 - 13:20)

• Bill: "Sandra Bullock might have market corrected her." — Bill [10:57]
• Analysis of '90s actress “apex mountains” and near-interchangeable career paths between Fonda and Bullock, with Fonda perhaps lacking the “sweetness” Bullock brought to similar roles.
• “There’s something… like, you know, the kids say Brett complimentary, like Alien about [Bridget Fonda]… completely inaccessible. That's why she's perfect for this role.” — Mallory [12:48]
• “Sandra Bullock could play everywoman, but when you had to go, wow, look how gorgeous, she could also do that. Which was kind of Bridget Fonda's thing.” — Van [11:48]

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The Jennifer Jason Leigh Factor: Performance or Identity?

(15:19 - 16:36)

• Bill admits the Hetty performance "ruined" Jennifer Jason Leigh for him: “I think you’re just like this. I don’t think you’re acting.” [15:34]
• Mallory and Van agree her visceral intensity—especially as Hetty unravels—makes the performance truly unsettling and almost indistinguishable from “real” insanity.
• Discussion of how a role like this can define or even “derail” an actor’s career by association.

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Roommate Microaggressions: Identity Theft, Haircut, & Intimacy

(21:07 - 22:03; 31:47 - 32:19)

• The progression from casual borrowing ("Are you wearing my perfume? Did you fuck my boyfriend?") to total identity theft.
• The haircut scene as “the iconic moment”—audible gasp in theaters recalled. [21:59]

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The Unforgettable Scenes & Cinematic Tropes

(30:48 - 60:14)

Most Rewatchable Scenes:

• Roommate Montage: Ally’s interviews with increasingly unhinged applicants; Hetty’s “entry” (31:47 - 33:08)
• Earrings & Perfume Scene: Early red flag when Ally tries Hetty’s things, leading to mutual boundary violations. [35:35]
• Random Topless Scene: “I like when there’s nudity early to be like, all bets are off this movie…” — Bill [35:44]
• Masturbation Scene: “Face-down masturbation” as a bold choice; the dog’s reaction, and sexual tension between roommates. [38:03]
• Family Portrait with Puppy: Creepy foreshadowing, classic "someone's dying" moment. [36:17 & 36:24]
• The Blowjob Scene: Hetty, disguised as Ally, gives Sam a blowjob—one of the “best scenes of the 90s.” Van: "He [Sam] has the clear chance to opt out… but he goes, well, that’s the question: we’re on that ride." [54:00]
• The Stiletto Murder: Sam’s death by high heel. [56:00]
• The Climax ("Crazyland"): Extended sequence where Hetty goes full villain, with chase, vents, and the final confrontation.

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Dated & Iconic ’90s Elements

(60:14 - 63:13)

• Answering machines, landlines, and erasing messages as plot devices. [60:23]
• Dial-up internet, newspaper classifieds, Polaroids, and ultra-snazzy urban apartments unattainable on a real salary.
• The apartment is itself a star: “It’s almost like they’re using three different apartments, but I don’t think they did. And you just kind of never know where you are in a good way.” — Bill [28:00]

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Pet Horror: Puppy Murder & Emotional Impact

(41:15 - 43:09; 69:12-69:47)

• The puppy’s death—arguably the movie’s darkest turn—elicits strong reactions, especially among pet lovers.
• “A lot of people out there care more about pets than humans. So if you kill somebody’s dog… you want revenge more than if you killed their wife…” — Bill [42:45]

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“Idiot Plot” and Questionable Decisions

(22:43 - 23:03; 87:19 - 88:59)

• Characters—especially Ally—regularly overlook obvious red flags, a necessity of the genre. Mallory: "There's a little bit of an idiot plot thing... the list of things that Hetty has done grows so long and so severe so quickly that it defies belief." [22:48, 87:19]

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Sexual Politics, Gender, and Queer Subtext

(47:23 - 48:07; 51:10 - 53:28; 76:04 - 77:07)

• Hetty’s obsession with Ally is laced with sexual envy/desire: “Is this obsession not sexual? Is this obsession sexual?” — Van [47:44]
• The infamous sex club scene and the ambiguous nature of Hetty’s sexuality and backstory.
• Hetty’s behavior analyzed through modern mental health and queer cinema lenses.

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The Rule of “Chekhov’s [Thing]”:

(63:29 - 64:25)

• Mallory lauds the movie’s “Chekhov’s everything”: “Every single object or aspect that is going to prove crucial in the plot has, like, a blaring siren… And then they all do, right? All of them. And it shouldn’t work. But I love it.” — Mallory [64:04]

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Tying It All Together—Who 'Won' the Movie?

(117:58 - 118:46)

• General consensus: “Jennifer Jason Leigh.” Though Fonda is “the it thing” for a moment, Leigh’s depiction of Hetty dominates the movie’s legacy.
• Craig: “Fonda's kind of a visionary, though. She's—I'm going to remember her forever.”
• Liz (Craig’s girlfriend): “Every woman in her life has come across a Hetty… whether or not you can escape it or not.” [119:44]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Mallory (on the film’s central question): "Do I want to fuck you, kill you, or be you?" [05:35]
• Bill (about Jennifer Jason Leigh’s effect on him): "I think you’re just like this. I don’t think you’re acting." [15:34]
• Van (on “crazy women in movies”): "I love crazy women in movies, man. The crazier, the better." [64:25]
• On witnessing the haircut scene: “The iconic moment of this movie. I would imagine if it was a crowded theater—a gasp… It's like, oh my god, what are you doing?” — Bill [21:59]
• On the infamous blowjob scene: “He [Sam] has the clear chance to opt out. A clear chance to opt out. And he goes, well, that’s the question: we're on that ride.” — Van [54:00]
• Craig (on dog death): "The second I saw Buddy, I was like, that dog's Dead." [94:50]

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Timestamped Highlights

• 02:26 – Simmons introduces “From Hell Month” and defines the trope.
• 05:28 – Mallory: What makes the movie compelling.
• 09:18 – Theoretical career swap: Fonda vs. Bullock.
• 15:19 – Mallory and Bill on Hetty’s unnerving energy.
• 21:07 – The perils of living with a “roommate from hell.”
• 31:47 – Alternate “rewatchable” scenes: roommate interviews montage.
• 36:53 – Van: "Anytime in a movie where three characters… take a picture, somebody's fucking dead at the end of the day."
• 41:15 – Discussion of puppy murder—a turning point.
• 54:00 – The “iconic” blue-light blowjob scene: “one of the best scenes of the 90s.”
• 63:29 – Chekhov's everything—all story elements get used.
• 69:12 & 41:15 – Killing animals as a dramatic device.
• 87:19 – Is Ally “too dumb to live”? Idiot plot analysis.
• 101:11 – Van and Bill role-play how to escape being caught post-blowjob.
• 110:56 – Nitpicks: Hetty defeats every full-grown man she faces.
• 117:03 – Most “visceral” moment for women: haircut or breastfeeding scene (from Hand That Rocks The Cradle)?

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Recurring Segments & Running Jokes

• “What’s Aged the Best/Worst”: Outdated tech, urban apartment porn, '90s sexual harassers, pet horror.
• Flexible “Hot Take/Flex” Lists: Van’s list of “This Motherfucker is Crazy” moments in film.
• Alternate Recasting/Casting What-Ifs: “What if Halle Berry starred opposite Jennifer Jason Leigh?”
• Pet murder = instant escalation: If a dog dies, revenge is all but assured.
• Movie Tropes: "Chekhov’s gun" principle—if an object appears, it will be used as a weapon or plot device.

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In Closing

The panel regards Single White Female as a keystone of '90s "From Hell" cinema: lurid, stylish, lurid, and always entertaining. Anchored by iconic performances, its blend of sexuality and terror, paired with an undercurrent of queasy fun, secure its spot as endlessly rewatchable. Whether you’re a child of the ‘90s or new to its particular brand of scary roommates, you’ll come away with a greater appreciation for why this film sticks to your brain—like a bloody stiletto in the eye.

Who won the movie:
Unanimous—Jennifer Jason Leigh as Hetty, one of the most unforgettable (and unsettling) characters in psycho-thriller history.

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Further Listening

Next up on “From Hell Month”: More twisted domesticity and unhinged relationships—follow The Rewatchables and revisit the full “From Hell” playlist on Netflix.

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“Single White Female taps into a few things, including real life things that work for really everybody who watches it. You never really know with your roommate. You never know with anyone, man." — Mallory Rubin [21:07]

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find House of R. Yeah. With Mallory Rubin, my longtime friend and

[Mallory Rubin]

coworker more than a decade together. Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

Long times. Van Lathan. You can hear him and watch him on Higher Learning.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Midnight boys.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

Appreciate that. And the single best podcast on the Ringer Ringer Tailgate.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very special.

[Van Lathan]

Or the Joel Anderson show, as we like to call it.

[Bill Simmons]

My name is Bill Simmons and this is the most important month in Rewatchables history. It's From Hell month. And it's next. It's the rewatchables presented by FanDuel Predicts. You can predict the Summer Soccer Showcase with FanDuel Predicts. From the opening game to the final whistle, stay locked in. Sign up now. For your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts, go to FanDuel.com predicts to sign up. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. 18/ restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predict bonus offer terms.

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[Bill Simmons]

All right. It is the official start of From Hell Month. We, we kind of test drove it last week. Squeezed our guy Steven Spielberg in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Technically, in the parameters of From Hell month. Computer From Hell. Absolutely not really considered. Now we're in the sweet spot of From Hell. Yeah, this is it. Starting with single wave female. I'm just gonna read through some of the From Hells and then we can talk about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic.

[Van Lathan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

So what's from Hell? We've already done a few Mallory Was on a couple of them. The Affair from Hell. Fatal Attraction.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Fan from Hell. Misery are all of our worst nightmares. For a podcasting fan just losing their minds.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Husband from Hell.

[Van Lathan]

Sleeping with the Enemy.

[Bill Simmons]

Me and Van did that one. Laura.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one, great one.

[Bill Simmons]

Boss from Hell. Disclosure. Were you in that one?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, sadly not.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I was on Disclosure.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's ones we haven't done. The Little Kid from Hell. The Good Son. The Tenant from Hell. Pacific Heights. Amazing movie. Nanny from Hell. Hand that Rocks the Cradle. Movie Craig Horlbeck has not seen. You're in for a treat, Craig. Cause it's coming this month. Second Husband from Hell, Domestic disturbance. One of the funniest movies of the 2000s. Teenager from hell. The Crush. Alicia Silverstone. Boyfriend from Hell.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Fear.

[Van Lathan]

Fear.

[Bill Simmons]

Mark Wahlberg.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Dog from Hell. Cujo.

[Van Lathan]

I was about to say pet from hell.

[Bill Simmons]

Cop from hell.

[Van Lathan]

Cop from hell is Lake View Terrace.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that's Neighbor from hell, Sam Jackson.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Cop from hell is unlawful entry with Ray Liota.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Temp from Hell. La Flamboyal. Mm. Ex from Hell. The X. Nobody's seen it. Yancy Butler. Her one. Great moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Ex. Ex. Husband from Hell. What's that one? I just have a blank slate next to that one. What's Ex Husband from Hell? I don't even know. Trucker from Hell, Duel and Breakdown. And then today, the Roommate from Hell.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Single Wife. Female. A movie that provokes visceral reactions from female watchers, including my daughter last week.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Who didn't know anything that was happening. And the haircut scene happens and my daughter was like, what the fuck?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's an Alzheimer.

[Bill Simmons]

Just absolutely furious.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it about this movie, Mel?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my goodness. What isn't it about the movie? It has everything, right? It has sex and intrigue and terror. It has psychosis and deep rooted fear. It has distressingly violence against animals, which is gonna be painful to talk about today.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a whole section carved out for that.

[Mallory Rubin]

You did tell us that you might have a golden retriever puppy here with you today.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Stroke it like heady.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow, I'm glad you don't. I think that I was just going to stroke it, but the haircut is kind of the answer. It's that the movie is all in. It does the fullest and most obvious, but in the right and great way version of the thing. There's nothing subtle about the movie at all. And that is kind of necessary for what it's trying to Do.

[Bill Simmons]

When you say the thing, are you saying the thing. Are you saying the actual sci fi Kurt Russell movie, 1982, the Thing. Because you can have said either.

[Mallory Rubin]

Either, I guess. Yeah, the thing. Like the idea of, do I want to fuck you or kill you or be you. Let me give you a little bit of all of it before we make our final decision at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Van, this is really, I think, everything you've ever looked for in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough to find a movie that was more in my wheelhouse now or then. Right. Because I have no. I went back and did research. I have no recollection of this movie, like actually in theaters, that this was a home theater cable juggler.

[Bill Simmons]

I saw it in the theater. Embarrassing.

[Van Lathan]

I bet you did.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But it was a big hit.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a lot going on in August 1992.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Van Lathan]

But when you watch the movie, the movie not playing with you. No, this movie takes itself seriously. Which is the difference between movies like that then and now. Now they gotta kinda give you a wink and a nod like, look how crazy this is. But this is like a drama with a lot of real world stakes and actually kinda justifies itself throughout the run of the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

And.

[Van Lathan]

And then that's why by the time you get to the end of it, you're like, yo, how the fuck did we get here? And that makes it even more awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, and you also have Bridget Fonda just in various stages of dress for two hours.

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of nudity in the scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Jennifer Jason Leigh is just like, I just hopped out of the shower. I'm completely naked.

[Mallory Rubin]

Naked.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you hand me a towel over there?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's naked the whole movie. And there's a weird backstory with them where Jennifer, Jason. I remember this from the. When this happened. Jennifer Jason Leigh dated Eric Stoltz, who broke up with her, and then started dating Bridget Fonda, who he dated for eight years.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they made the movie together. And I was like, I didn't have the Premiere magazine for this one, but it was part of the research. Like, yeah, it was a little awkward, but we made it work. But so there's a tension with them that you can really feel that's part of the movie. But also, boy, I don't know, should

[Mallory Rubin]

have renamed Sam Eric. Maybe if it hadn't been based off

[Bill Simmons]

a book or just had Eric Stoles play, Sam could have done that as well.

[Van Lathan]

That takes it to the next fucking level.

[Bill Simmons]

Bridget Fonda, she hall of famer for you.

[Van Lathan]

Van yeah, way up there.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, first ballot, White Girl hall of Fame or like.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Had to wait a year, at least in the 90s.

[Van Lathan]

Let me compare her to a player I feel like Clyde Drexler.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I put her in a Clyde Drexler territory.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Dream Teamer.

[Van Lathan]

Dream Teamer. All the tools. Has every single accolade, but still not talked about as much because kind of just like disappear. You don't see glide around. You don't see glide hanging out, whatever. And the same thing kind of happened to Bridget Fonda during that time. It was such a hotly contested race for who was going to be what

[Bill Simmons]

a class of actresses. We had Julia, Julia, Meg Ryan, Sandra Bullock coming up. Reese Witherspoon's lurking in the distance waiting for the mid 90s run.

[Van Lathan]

The back half of the 90s after Clueless.

[Bill Simmons]

Geena Davis is holding up.

[Van Lathan]

Geena Davis is holding on. Liv Tyler is storming the castle. All of this stuff is happening at the same time. Bridget Fonda was as well positioned as any of those actresses. Between. Singles. Between. What was the lafinia one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, I have it. Peter Fonda's daughter, first of all, Hollywood royalty, Aunt Jane, grandfather Henry Fonda.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

You a non Golden Pond person.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, My wife loves that movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, of course.

[Mallory Rubin]

Woman of taste in character.

[Bill Simmons]

Showed up scandal 1988 with Val Kilmer's wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

1990. Godfather three. Godfather three, that's right. Apparently cut out of a lot like film. More stuff cut out. But had a little affair with Andy Garcia. But then single wife, female 92 and singles 92. Easily. We don't have to spoil it. That's Apex Mouth. She felt like the it thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Both of those movies, singles actually didn't do as well as this movie. But had a distinct look too. And it just kept going. Never really happened for her the way that I think we all thought. And the big one later was Jackie Brown in 96, which is great in. And then has this great fork in the road now turns down Ally McBeal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and then only acted for a few more years after Jackie Brown. Right. Stops acting in the early 2000s.

[Bill Simmons]

Big placid 1999. Simple play in 98. Her last IMDBs in 02 and had a serious car accident in Malibu in 03 and fractured a vertebrae and then just stopped acting. Her IMDb just ends.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's it.

[Bill Simmons]

Like she died. But she didn't die. She's still around. She married Danny elfman.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Ally McBeal. Nugget is fascinating because now, of course, I'm forced to think, what would that have meant for Calista Flockhart and thus Harrison Ford?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe you're with Harrison Ford.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, maybe you're Mrs. Harrison Ford right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, we met recently at a whiskey event.

[Bill Simmons]

I heard, I saw. I studied the pictures.

[Mallory Rubin]

Magical.

[Van Lathan]

Does Harrison have the earring?

[Mallory Rubin]

He was wearing a kilt.

[Van Lathan]

Does he have the earring now?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, he's currently wearing the earring.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so the earring's gone.

[Mallory Rubin]

But that was a big part of the.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, Ally McBeal was a phenomenon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like, legitimately, like one of the most talked about shows of the late 90s. And I think if Bridget Fonda's in there, it still is. There was a little bit of a discovery with Kalista Flockhart. Cause nobody knew who she was. But I think Bridget Fonda would have been huge. And that probably would have carried her for another six, seven years in the spotlight. I thought I had as a hot take. I'll just do now. I think Sandra Bullock might have market corrected her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

It's because you look at the movies Sandra Bullock makes in basically they're born in the same year, 1964. Sandra Bullock's and the Vanishing Demolition Man. Speed the Net. While you were sleeping in A Time to Kill. I feel like Bridget Fonda could have been in all of this. They're just like better, bigger movies than everything that happened to Bridget Fonda.

[Van Lathan]

This is your best take in a while and I'll tell you why. Thank you. Yeah, got it. So. Because even in 92, you see what Bridget Fonda is capable of. Because in this movie, she plays the socialite about town, the completely independent, achieving beautiful lady, but a little weak. A little weak. But then in singles, she's actually not that in singles, she is sort of a little bit more every girl type. That's actually.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a Sandra Bullock role.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's a Sandra Bullock role. And that actually became Sandra Bullock's thing, is that Sandra Bullock could play every woman. But then when Sandra Bullock. When you had to go, wow, look how gorgeous. She could also do that. Which was kind of Bridget Fonda's thing.

[Bill Simmons]

The one that missed with her, that I think was a good fork in the road. She's in that movie with Nic Cage. They changed the title. It's called It Could Happen to youo. Originally it was called something like, oh,

[Van Lathan]

Cop Wins a Million dollars or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Cop Leaves a Million Dollar Tip or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a real life story about a lottery ticket and the cop leaving it part of it for the waitress. And then they fall in love. And it was a good idea for a movie and it just didn't make it. And it's weird because Nick Cage's career takes off right after. But that was another one. That was a Sandra Bullock role. So I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

What do you think?

[Mallory Rubin]

Nick Cage, Renaissance spider noir.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, huge stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is interesting because I wouldn't. You're compelling me. Both of you are compelling me. You with the take, you with the defense of the take. I was prepared to say the first thing that pops into my mind with Sandra Bullock is like the sweetness.

[Van Lathan]

Huh.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think that at least when we're thinking about this movie and Bridget Fonda right now, there's something. I mean, this like, you know, the kids say Brett complimentary, like Alien about her. Right. Completely inaccessible. That's why she's perfect for this role. It's interesting to know that she was presented with the opportunity to play either Ally or Hedy and chose Ally because that makes sense to me. Is the. I think the choice and feels right. It's like kind of a weird alternate history to consider her in the other role. But the idea that she would be the person someone else needed to be near, needed to be with, needed to

[Bill Simmons]

be calm, need to be coveted.

[Mallory Rubin]

It tracks completely now. I think Sandra Bullock could do that, but that feels like the Bridget Fonda kind of like essence to me because this is such an iconic role on the Apex Mountain singles.

[Bill Simmons]

She plays more of what you're talking about.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, she plays.

[Bill Simmons]

She's just so fucking cool. I was so in love with her in singles.

[Mallory Rubin]

She was elite.

[Van Lathan]

And like, in singles, you're watching her and you're going, jesus, when is somebody gonna see the value in that?

[Bill Simmons]

She's right here. She's the lottery.

[Van Lathan]

And then he sneezes at the end and they fall in love. Great. But Cameron be on his shit. Like, what a great character. But I feel like if Sandra Bullock is in this movie, that she's heady.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

It's probably the Sandra Bullock role I would have wanted if she never played. It would have been great. So if Bridget Fonda's. Because it's a great. What if with this movie that I never knew about, if Bridget Fonda is actually heady in this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

What do you think about that? I don't think it works. It's difficult for me. She's a very talented performer. I think she's Fantastic. In this movie, and I think, rightly, most of the conversation is around Jennifer Jason Leigh is heady because that performance is, like, debauched in the best possible way. But Bridget Fonda as Ally, as the person who you look at and you're just like, I need to try to inhabit that space. You know, when Sam says to her in the early sequence and they're in bed, he's like, well, you know. She's like, I know Graham. I'll invite Graham to the wedding. He's like, everyone in New York is going to love you as soon as they get to meet you, because everybody loves you. You know, when Ally and Hetty are walking down the street, they're talking about the fashion. There are some performers, some aspects of the plot where they would have to, like, work harder to convince us that this person could be this effortlessly, like, fashionable. Right. She's not from New York. She moved here, and she just dresses like a supermodel. She dresses like a superstar. And you believe that fully. So this casting and that choice for her to be Ally feels right. I have a harder time imagining her as he.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with that. You're also in the Carolyn Bissett era. She's got that kind of same fashionista. Kind of feels very early 90s to me. But more importantly, Jennifer, Jason Lee is just incredible.

[Van Lathan]

She's going crazy. Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

She rolls perfect for her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually like this movie. Kind of ruined her for me. Oh, she's so creepy and weird and gross.

[Van Lathan]

But that's her thing, though.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but this one I, like, couldn't come back from where I'm like, I think you're just like this. I don't think you're acting. I really think this is you. You're revealing because that's how. That's how convincing she was as Hetty. I was like, this is beyond acting.

[Van Lathan]

Like, when Hedy starts, like, really sizzling. I mean, when the anger gets there, it's, like, scary.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's terrifying.

[Van Lathan]

It's scary, and it's focused and it's intense. And I think that's the thing that I probably would have had trouble with Bridget Fonda.

[Bill Simmons]

With Bridget Fonda, yeah. It would have felt like she was acting it. Right. Like, when she's tied up in the end with the thing on her mouth and Hetty's getting mad, and all of a sudden you hear stuff breaking in the background, and Bridget Fonda's, like, looking around, and then Hetty just comes back in with the knife.

[Van Lathan]

By that point at.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus Christ.

[Van Lathan]

I love this fucking movie by that point.

[Mallory Rubin]

Serrated knife.

[Van Lathan]

Fully in crazy land.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, we are fully there, you know, in looking.

[Bill Simmons]

We weren't fully there when she blew all. His boyfriend jammed a.

[Van Lathan]

That is the thing about the movie. We really are always in crazy land in the movie. We're already there. We're in crazy land when she is erasing messages. We're in crazy land when she's hiding, left all of that stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

And that's right away.

[Van Lathan]

Deeply, deeply crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

We're never. Not the puppy murder.

[Van Lathan]

The puppy murder. Which is not quite sure if she actually. Because I'm a.

[Mallory Rubin]

Come on.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna make a defensive heady later.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely not.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna make a. I'm gonna make a defensive heady later. But by the time we get to super crazy land is tied up, knife screaming in the background, and you are just laughing and having a great fucking time with the movie, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think there's a case that the scene scarier aspects of the performance are actually the early, like, subtle indicators that something is lurking beneath the surface really early. You mentioned, like, the letter. You know, we. We learned that's in, like, the first couple weeks of them living together, that that stuff is happening. But, you know, something, like, even just the quiet menace of, like, the. The looming harbinger of the way she says, well, this is, like, their first conversation. She learns about Sam, the photo. I'm not going to, like, get back together. I don't want to catch you on the rebound. There's a threat in the first conversation. When Allie doesn't call, she spends the night out. After rekindling with Sam.

[Bill Simmons]

She's lying in the bed with her puppy.

[Mallory Rubin]

How dare. Like, it's New York. Things happen.

[Van Lathan]

How have you been? That's so hilarious to me.

[Bill Simmons]

But he was really upset.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Buddy was upset.

[Mallory Rubin]

Poor Buddy.

[Van Lathan]

You're going to get me started early. I just want to say something real quick. Hetty asked her.

[Mallory Rubin]

She did.

[Van Lathan]

She asked. She goes, hey, this connects to one

[Mallory Rubin]

of my hottest dates.

[Van Lathan]

You're not just gonna leave me, right? And go back to him? She asked. And what's her name? Fucking lie. She, deep down, knew it was a chance. That's what happened. I'm not gonna get into it now. I'm gonna do this later. But Hetty, she was looking out for it. She was trying to protect herself, and Ali wouldn't let her.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm with you.

[Bill Simmons]

Bridget Fonda. She flips roles. Is this a different movie for you?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't know anything about this movie?

[Craig Horlbeck]

No. Other than knowing the phrase single white female.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Not a no. Fonda can't be. Fonda has, like this old school Hollywood look to her. She's like, so clean and refined. Jennifer Jason Leigh. The whole movie's in, like giant T shirts. She's always, like, contorting her body. She's always on the ground. She's like a little spider.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They do a good job of filming it too, where it's always looking up at Bridget Fonda.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And it's height difference is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She's daughter of Vic Morrow. Fast times in 82 and then has a really nice run. Flesh and Blood, Hitcher, Last Exit to Brooklyn. Miami Blues is a really good alcohol movie. She's in Backtrap. She's in Rush with Jason Patrick.

[Van Lathan]

That one I don't love.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't love Rush.

[Van Lathan]

Have never been able to quite connect with the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I never loved it either.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Everybody always thought it was very well reviewed.

[Bill Simmons]

She's a very respected actress.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then ends up with this one and. I don't know. She's had a good run.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, she got nominated for an Oscar for Hateful Eight. She was incredible in Fargo just a few years ago. She's never bad. It's really a question of whether the role is so perfect for her that she can be iconic in it. And she's done that multiple times.

[Bill Simmons]

I've never recovered from her from this movie. Every time I see her in a movie, I'm always like, watch out for her. Watch out. Don't give her your keys.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of other roles like that where I can never quite get over the role that the person played.

[Bill Simmons]

Usually it's like supporting characters. It's weird when it's like a star.

[Van Lathan]

My mom never trusted Danny Glover again after Color Purple. Couldn't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I'm just saying.

[Van Lathan]

Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Danny is somewhere right now getting his ass whooped psychically by my mom. We would watch

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Van Lathan]

We would watch, like, Lethal Weapon and my mother would be like, I wonder if he beats his wife. And we'd be like, come on, man.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

That's Color Purple.

[Van Lathan]

Come on, man. That's fucking murder.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There are some people, it's just like, Michael Shannon. Every time I see Michael Shannon in something, I'm like, I'm not trusting this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are we sure?

[Bill Simmons]

We talked about this with Sleeping with the Enemy.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, that husband guy's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

That guy could never work again after that. You just saw him you're like, laura,

[Van Lathan]

he tried to come out right after that and go do Robin Hood.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember.

[Van Lathan]

I looked at him. No way. No fucking way. I'm not watching you do this to may.

[Bill Simmons]

Domestic abuser. Yeah, I was just playing a part. Single white female taps into a few things, including real life things that work for really everybody who watches it, no matter what age you are, Even for my daughter last week. You never really know with your roommate.

[Mallory Rubin]

You never know with anyone, man.

[Bill Simmons]

You never really know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Female friend A, kind of getting on the corner of female friend B, a little bit like, yo, did you borrow my stuff? Yeah, sure.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you. Wait, you wore my jacket. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you wearing my perfume?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you fuck my boyfriend?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You blew my boyfriend and killed him with a. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you suck his dick? Did he come in 25 seconds?

[Van Lathan]

Did he know I got a lot

[Mallory Rubin]

of notes for Sam?

[Van Lathan]

Did he know that?

[Bill Simmons]

Save us.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Okay, well, I'm telling you, there's a lot of hair.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the money shot of this podcast. Literally.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, cool, we're in.

[Bill Simmons]

Deep dive it.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And then ripping off the hairdo, which was the iconic moment of this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember seeing this in the theater, but I would imagine if it was a crowded theater, a gasp.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question.

[Bill Simmons]

Would have been in the audience for that.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, my God, what are you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

And Bridget Fonda's face is great. And then when you get like two, something happens with a roommate, you get too close and there's kind of no way out because you have a lease.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Where it's like, oh, this might not be working out. And that's it. You're stuck together. It's like a cont. It's like the Lamar Jackson Ravens contract. Sorry, Mel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Rude. Not in this case, direct shot. Part of the plot is you can't be on the lease, you can't be on the leash, and no one can know you live here. And so there's a built in opportunity at any point for Ally to say, you're freaking me out. I just need you to leave. That'll be a through line of my commentary during this podcast, which I went

[Bill Simmons]

and looked, but she's a weak person.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

As has been established, it's.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're familiar with the term idiot plot, right? There's a little bit of an idiot plot thing going on here with Ali in particular, where it is just the list of things that hedy has done grows so long and so severe so quickly that it defies belief.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But this is a staple of the from hell for sure. You need the character who's just overlooking all the signs of, like, man, since Van showed up, weird shit's been happening.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

It can't be Van's fault.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Right. In the book, this rent controlled New York situation is a much, much bigger deal. I went and looked at that a little bit because it's actually Sam.

[Bill Simmons]

You read the SWF book or.

[Van Lathan]

Read the book? I read like a description of the book. It's actually Sam who she's actually hiding who they're on the lease with, which makes it necessary that all of this stuff kind of gets kept on the hush hush, low, low. They kind of halfway do that in the. The. The movie a little bit. But to Mal's point, she's actually more empowered to say, get the fuck out of here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because nobody. She's not supposed to be living there because it's rent controlling this great building.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's effective because it creates this, like, it enhances the idea that she spectre. Right. That like, the person, the woman who's getting on the elevator could see her and be like, who are you? As she's looking, you know, in the lobby window across to watch Sam and Ally. Or the idea that Graham could say, I, like, was chasing after you, and I thought it was you because it was your bag and your jacket and then it wasn't you. But I've never met Hetty. And Ali's like, well, she's shy. And also I'm hiding her most of all.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean trusty gay friend Graham? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have some notes coming for Graham as well.

[Van Lathan]

Right. You know, something else about the Alley character, though, is that the Ally character, throughout the entire movie, is always portrayed as a character that's not quite confident about anything.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. She's afraid. And that says something with the fake, the forged suicide note. Like, I was never this afraid. No one will believe I was this afraid.

[Bill Simmons]

I was like, weren't you this afraid

[Mallory Rubin]

or afraid in a different way? The setup for the idea, though, that Hetty can say at the end, I'm gonna be able to pin this on you because I was never here. That's very effective and very compelling. That's good.

[Van Lathan]

But I mean, people. She was there for a while at that point is the only thing I understand about that. She actually looks at her. By that point, Ali is convinced that Ali, she goes, people know that you are here, you fucking nuts. Like the Fuck is wrong with you? Right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We had ice cream cones together.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. We were, like, hanging out, taking pictures. There's pictures of me, you, and the fucking dog. What are you talking about? Like, people are gonna know that you were here.

[Mallory Rubin]

You threw a dog off the balcony.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, everybody saw it. But so, like, Ally terrible. She's a little bit. She's the power play between her and the boss character, which is one of my favorite characters.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just the early 90s personified.

[Mallory Rubin]

Unbelievable, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Over the top sexual harasser.

[Van Lathan]

But these, all of these early 90s movies are trying to tell you that that's wrong. Because that's, like, the first time that society has contended with the fact that maybe it's wrong.

[Bill Simmons]

It's for real.

[Van Lathan]

It's for real.

[Bill Simmons]

This was like 92, 93. Rage.

[Van Lathan]

People didn't even know whether or not to say harassment or harassment. It was. I remember. So there's a character like that that shows up in all of these movies because they're trying to make this guy the new high school jerk of the 90s, because they're trying to make this a larger conversation.

[Bill Simmons]

What about when he's in the office and there's somebody else who's on a chair and he's just, like, leaning over the chair? It's like, maybe you could have scaled back this guy, like, 10%.

[Van Lathan]

He's going for it.

[Bill Simmons]

We get it. He's a scumbag. This movie was directed by Barbet Schroeder.

[Mallory Rubin]

Barbet.

[Bill Simmons]

Barbette. Barbet.

[Van Lathan]

I thought it was Barbette.

[Bill Simmons]

Barbette. Yeah, Directed by Barbette Schroeder from a screenplay by Don Roos, Based on the 1990 novel SWF Seeks Same by John Lutz. I do not have that one on my.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have not read it.

[Bill Simmons]

So he made Reversal of Fortune, Single Wife, female. And then the movie that we've been dying to do on rewatchables forever, Kiss of Death with Caruso and Cage, that is not streaming and basically doesn't exist. $16 million budget made. $84 million.

[Van Lathan]

Legitimate hit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Impressive.

[Van Lathan]

Legitimate hit.

[Bill Simmons]

Roger Ebert. Do you know the answer to this, Craig?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man, I do.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I read the Wikipedia.

[Bill Simmons]

Three stars.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

No genre is beyond redemption or beneath contempt. And here the slasher genre has given its due with strong performances and direction. Raj loves a good story.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible stuff from Roger.

[Van Lathan]

It seems like this movie was fairly well reviewed. Some ups and downs, but they were. It's Schroeder. The seriousness that he put into the direction of this movie. Especially with all the coming off Reversal of Fortune, which was like sort of a mini phenomenon, like the depiction of costume. Yeah. He wins the Oscar and then brought

[Bill Simmons]

us to Die Hard 3.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly. So, like, he kind of brought a lot of credibility into the movie. And it seems as if a lot of the critics that viewed it said, hey, in less capable hands, this movie would have been a complete zany ride into bullshit land. But he takes it so seriously and he crafts it so well that it actually turns into a somewhat serious kind of actual movie.

[Bill Simmons]

He does a really good job with the apartment. Oh, yeah, I never. You have no map in your head for where the rooms are, where the main room is, the kitchen. It's just kind of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's almost like they're using three different apartments, but I don't think they did. And you just kind of never know where you are in a good way.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's something really brilliant about the kind of, like, apartment and the round geography of it. The way they have that foyer and all of the rooms. They go back. Another version of what you were saying about a spider. Right. There's like, every room is a leg off of this middle hub. And so this idea that everybody has their own space. There's this discussion early about privacy that's about the other neighbors, but then kind of, you shrink it down to inside of their own home. Privacy, of course, is not a thing that exists for any of the characters, ultimately, but the idea that you could always hear and see because every room has, like, a point of visibility into another from across this foyer. And then it makes those moments where, like, Hetty has left her door open to loudly masturbate in the middle of the night or something like that. Can't wait to talk about that scene. All the more notable because, you know, she's like, you can see me, you can hear me, you can walk over.

[Van Lathan]

Also, the apartment complex is. The elevator is old and rickety. There's a balcony that your dog can fall through. You don't have any safety from your neighbor listening to you fuck your boyfriend. Like the place itself, there's an incinerator that anyone can. Boiler rooms. Like, boiler rooms, which we don't have in movies. We talk about that too. So the apartment building itself is a character, and it kind of is.

[Bill Simmons]

In a good way.

[Van Lathan]

In a good way. It's as destabilizing in a way as Hetty is.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, there's a lot to get into with this movie. We have to take a break. I cannot wait to do the rewatchable scenes. That's next. The rewatchables is brought to you by FanDuel predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase. Wink, wink, action all the way to the final match with FanDuel predicts. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus. From the opening game to the final whistle. Stay locked in with every pass, every goal, every moment that moves us closer to crowning our first champion in four years. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts, go to FanDuel.com predicts to sign up. That's FanDuel.com predicts to get your $25 bonus offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. Eighteen plus restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predict bonus-offer-terms all right, most rewatchable scene. We already know the answer, but let's do a couple alternate candidates at least possible roommates. Check the place out.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Roommates montage.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible. This is. There's a way to look at the movie and just this scene and say this is a reductive, like effect. Offensive string of stereotypes. But then there's the way you should watch it, which is to embrace the, like, very intentional comedy and parody of it. You have like the contractor who, the biker who's coming in. I'm banging on the walls. I'm going to fix it up. You've got the gorgeous, stunning, hot chick who's eyeing Ally and Ally's eyeing her. You have the third candidate who says, and I quote, I'm an incest survivor, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I haven't remembered the incident yet, but I know it's there somewhere. Therapy girl, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then of course, you have like this seemingly normal woman who also seems like she could maybe be a secret murderer or there's something very kind of like creepy about her perfection. So you're hitting all the beats and then in walks Petty. It's just a perfect setup.

[Bill Simmons]

Slump, crying, holding on the picture.

[Van Lathan]

And the interesting thing is the woman that the seemingly the way to saccharin Nice lady the movie sets her up as the roommate that she should have actually chosen.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And was about to.

[Van Lathan]

And was about to choose. And then Hetty earns her way.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Van Lathan]

Into the apartment. Right. She actually earns her place in the movie, which gives the audience the opportunity to say, hey, Ally's not an idiot for picking her. She caught her at a low moment. Then the water sprays them.

[Bill Simmons]

She fixes the water and they're eating ice cream cones.

[Van Lathan]

And they're eating ice cream together.

[Mallory Rubin]

Makes her a tea. There's, like, the nurturing aspect, which is a thing through line. And there's always something. This is one of the things I actually love about the movie. When Hedy is trying to be, like, a caregiver, it is comforting and, like, incredibly discomforting at the same time. Like, the breakfast scene later with Sam is a good example. She's like, I made you breakfast. Scrambled or fried? She's like, I'll just take this orange. Can you stop trying to fuck my boyfriend? You know? What do you guys think about me? Maybe, like, would you trust me to make dinner tonight? It's our anniversary. We're good, you know? But you do understand how Ally, who didn't want to be on her own and is mourning the loss of this relationship, is, like, seeking that nurturing presence in her life, even though Hetty is not that she is able to, like, provide that in births. So that Ali.

[Bill Simmons]

This is another trope, though. Ali is no family, right? No friends. Her only friend is Graham, the trusting gay guy. Upstairs or downstairs?

[Mallory Rubin]

Upstairs.

[Bill Simmons]

Available all the time for her cat lover. Just has a cat, doesn't have a job. Carmen, anytime I'm here, let's do a podcast.

[Van Lathan]

Also listening to her have sex. Like, Graham. He's taped his shit up, right? Graham is a freak.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's like, how long did Graham. Why did he. Graham wait how many years to tell her that?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah, that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

By the way, I've been listening to you have sex for three years.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Wow. Loud one last night. You like being on top.

[Mallory Rubin]

It sounds like Graham is, like, quietly a rose from Titanic award character who sneaky sucks candidate. Because he's supposed to be like, I'm your friend. You can come talk to me. You can tell me what's on your mind about Hetty. You can tell me what's on your mind about Sam. But not only is he listening and not telling her for months on end. Here's my bigger no for Graham. And this will set up some of the pet stuff to come. You're waiting till a couple days before you're going to Boston for a wedding to set up cat care.

[Bill Simmons]

Cat care.

[Van Lathan]

It's tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

What the hell?

[Van Lathan]

What's going on?

[Mallory Rubin]

That is just not sufficient, by the way. Hey, here are some keys. Would you swing by? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Good.

[Van Lathan]

A fucking loyalty.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, is that why they have kitty litter?

[Mallory Rubin]

That his commentary on the litter box

[Van Lathan]

was, he's an asshole, by the way. I'll tell you Something. And the cat loves him. The cat next to him when he was seemingly dead, by the way.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's terrible. Listen to something that's very upsetting.

[Van Lathan]

Listen to something that happens at the end of the movie when she's giving her voiceover. She says, I cried the whole week of Sam's funeral. Graham told me that's not going to bring him back. The week of the funeral.

[Mallory Rubin]

Graham.

[Van Lathan]

Graham says that he's not gonna bring him back. Stop crying, bitch. This motherfucker's dead. Graham, are you nuts? If she was crying six years after the funeral, maybe you say that the week of the funeral. He says that to her. Graham, what the fuck is up with you, dog?

[Bill Simmons]

I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Stop crying. I can't hear your conversations and your sex through the vent. If you're crying, stop crying.

[Bill Simmons]

I cried all week after the funeral for my boyfriend who died because my roommate rammed a high heel in his face after blowing him stiletto to the eye. Move on. Find another roommate. I have. For alternate rewatchable scenes. Hetty walking in on Ally, trying her earrings and perfume.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I know you. We probably think they coming later, but there's some violations on Ally's side.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, yeah?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll talk about it later.

[Mallory Rubin]

Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Random topless scene. I like when there's nudity. Early to be like, all bets are off this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no reason for this girl to be naked. Get ready. Buckle up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Y.

[Bill Simmons]

Then Hetty does the take. The pearl earrings. Try them on. And she tried. And we're just like, okay, we're getting weirdville.

[Mallory Rubin]

And she niffs her neck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's just getting weird. Hetty buys a golden retriever puppy without telling her. And some of the worst puppy raising possible. No crate here. Puppy. Just go in this room. We'll close the door. What could go wrong?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

And then all of a sudden, it bonds them together, and they do the family portrait. Family portrait is really creepy.

[Van Lathan]

You know that? That's after. After they do this anytime.

[Bill Simmons]

Family portrait's tough.

[Van Lathan]

Anytime in a movie where three characters get together and they take a picture, somebody's fucking dead at the end of the day. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's true. And you're gonna look back at the picture.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

That's me, buddy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Allie disappears with Sam, comes home after two days.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Teddy gets super pissy about it. This scene's amazing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

This is where it's like, all right, I gotta. Maybe I'll go upstairs, see if Graham's home. I got to figure out an exit Plan right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's not in the lease.

[Mallory Rubin]

And we see stuff that, of course, Ally doesn't. Including Hedy kicking Buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible moment, by the way.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horrible moment.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that. In what stage? The worst.

[Mallory Rubin]

Awful.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't feel like CGI'd or anything. Oh, that felt like a straight puppy kick.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very upsetting.

[Van Lathan]

Do you feel like the actual Buddy took?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, where was PETA?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a lie.

[Van Lathan]

Man used to raise these.

[Bill Simmons]

That dog was flying five feet.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very upsetting.

[Van Lathan]

Like we used to. We used to raise these dogs. These dogs are soft. No, I'm just joking. Nah, bullshit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chair sex.

[Van Lathan]

Chair sex is a great scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chair sex is great.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, can I be honest with you?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Two beautiful bodies in this fucking scene. Right. I don't remember seeing as much of Sam as you end up seeing in this movie. In one particular part, I don't know,

[Mallory Rubin]

you see some dick.

[Van Lathan]

You see his balls hanging from between, like, his shit.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the Douglas.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Ragged balls. But right around when Basic Instinct. I think Basic Instinct came out first. Maybe he was like, keep the balls in Douglas.

[Van Lathan]

What did I tell you? There was a white male butt competition. That was balls and butt.

[Bill Simmons]

Needed to be balls and butt.

[Van Lathan]

It was a thing.

[Bill Simmons]

The next thing I wrote down was the masturbation scene. Right into everyone having eggs.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie's amazing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

What a fake out. In the masturbation scene, you think she's riding some dude she met, does the rollover. I did the first time I saw it. I thought she was having sex with somebody. And then she does the rollover. It's like, oh, she's by herself.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought. Clearly. I think the fact that the positioning is like, she.

[Bill Simmons]

She looks like she's riding somebody.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, she is trying to approximate the idea of being with somebody. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Or maybe approximating what she saw when she.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, that's the thing. The fact that she has just gone and like, brought Sam a post coital soda and he's like, naked in bed. Ally has gotten up to get a drink.

[Bill Simmons]

The room at least has a smell of sex, I'm guessing.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question. No question. She gives Ali a kiss on the cheek. Very deliberate. She's trying to, like, soak up any aspect of that that she can.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she has to go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Goes and masturbates. So I think it was like very clear that she was masturbating because she wants to fuck Sam and she wants to fuck Ally. She wants to be in that relationship with them. The fact that she is in that position when Ally first sees her before turning over. Do either of you watch Shoresy? You don't, right? I've tried to get you to watch Shorzy incredible show. Please watch it. The most recent season of Shoresy has an iconic opening scene where one of the characters, Ted Hitchcock, who they call ten inch cock, is masturbating in that exact position. And there's, like, legitimately a 15 minute conversation about how most people masturbate. I can't recommend it to you highly enough. It is so funny and so good. So that was on my mind watching this. But of course, the biggest part of this is that Buddy yelps. Yeah, well, he's.

[Van Lathan]

Well, Buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Buddy's like, what did I get into? I brought a pet store.

[Van Lathan]

I always thought that Buddy was yelping because he saw his second mom masturbating. That's not why Buddy yelped. Buddy yelped because he was yelping at Allie. What the fuck are you doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Get out of here.

[Van Lathan]

Get the fuck out of here.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, give her some privacy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's like. He's like, you don't see Mom? Mom is working it right now. Get the fuck out of here. Why would you hear that and then walk over to the goddamn door?

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm telling you, it's a good question.

[Van Lathan]

Ally is the villain of this movie. Why would you walk towards your. Your roommate if they're fucking or if they're masturbating?

[Bill Simmons]

Just having a private moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hetty knew that she would. That's why she left the door open.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, I can't let this moment go by without getting Van's take on the top five face down masturbation scenes in movies.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Geez.

[Van Lathan]

Face down masturbation scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

I feel if anyone is prepared to go up the dome with this one, it's you.

[Bill Simmons]

That might have been the only one.

[Van Lathan]

I can't think of another one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Again, I'll direct you to.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't ever remember seeing that in a movie before.

[Van Lathan]

Face down. Because the face down.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say her thing.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

It's just like the face downer.

[Van Lathan]

Hetty's thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like being.

[Van Lathan]

She's dominating herself.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You like that?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying, I hadn't seen a movie. I feel like it invented it. Leading to the eggs and Hetty just being a little suffocating. Come on, Buddy. Three's a crowd.

[Mallory Rubin]

Three's a crowd.

[Bill Simmons]

Buddy and Bridget Fonda, who's a really good bitch. It's like he's Fine, Hetty. Like, just like, coming through. So anyway, you know, it's time for Buddy to die, which leads us to a non rewatchable scene. The murder of Buddy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horrible.

[Bill Simmons]

The second worst thing to ever happen to a dog in a movie. You know what the first one is, right?

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened when Michael Douglas, Fatal Attraction character fed spaghetti and meatballs to his dog that had been alone for two days? The most single violated I've ever seen. Mallory. Terrible on a rewatch.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no. I was thinking about the rabbit.

[Mallory Rubin]

The rat? No, boiling the bunny.

[Bill Simmons]

Boiling the bunny. Whatever. The bunny just died. Feeding your dog spaghetti, meatballs. The diarrhea. Terrible recipe the dog had neat and gone out in two days is the worst thing that's ever happened.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tv, not movie. But what about when Tom has to pull pantyhose out of Mondale's ass in succession? Remember that?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. Well, we.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was very upsetting.

[Bill Simmons]

We talked a lot about Mondale. The most neglected dog in TV or movie history, by the way.

[Van Lathan]

Right now for pets. We in the dirt. We in the dirt right now for pets. Pets are being killed for.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't handle it.

[Van Lathan]

And like, fucking like.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm very worried about Supergirl. I'm very worried about Crypto and Supergirl.

[Van Lathan]

Crypto has been victimized twice. He was victimizing Superman. Victimizing Supergirl.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, the Punisher plot of Supergirl seems to be. Oh, the Punisher thing was awful.

[Van Lathan]

The Punisher thing at the beginning of the movie. I'm watching it. Taste your last kill, Bill. You won't see it. You haven't seen it. It's a special presentation on Disney. John Wick.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's actually a dog.

[Van Lathan]

John Wick. John Wicked. Feeling like ushered into this. Kill the dog for the plot of the thing. Kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what?

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the new fridging.

[Van Lathan]

The new fridging is the killing of the act.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of people out there care more about pets than humans.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, yeah. I mean, I do.

[Bill Simmons]

So if you kill somebody's dog in the beginning of the movie, you want revenge more than if you killed their wife or something.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

People are weird.

[Van Lathan]

Especially the cuter. The pet.

[Bill Simmons]

I also had the puppy murder as the okay motherfucker award for when this movie just goes up a notch.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's so funny.

[Bill Simmons]

They're coming home. There's a fucking dead gold retriever in full blood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horrible.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horrible.

[Bill Simmons]

We're ratcheting up. Small scene. Devastated, Hedy hits on Sam.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Weird scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Gives the hug and then a Little more. Sam's thinking about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sam's a dog. Sam's a dog.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, in the book. In the book, Sam and Hetty actually have sex and Allie catches them.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that true?

[Van Lathan]

That's true in the book.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we know Sam went to visit his ex wife and couldn't make it an hour.

[Van Lathan]

Right, Sam? And by the way, I gotta say something to Sam, man.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say something about he's dead, so he's.

[Van Lathan]

I apologize, Sam. It shouldn't have happened to you. It was an accident. It was an accident. Seriously, Sam just his explanation for fucking his ex wife. Sam didn't even fucking try.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Sam know he the man. Sam, like she. She calls him out.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's the anniversary of our divorce. She was upset.

[Van Lathan]

She was upset. What do you want me to do?

[Mallory Rubin]

So I fucked up.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, what do you want me to do? I go over there, we got divorced. I feel like it was. What do you want me to do? I was like, so what? People make mistakes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Am I supposed to not work?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

The craziest part about that to me is that the bulk of the like attempt at reconciliation from there for Sam is. Or, and honestly, Allie's reception of it is really oriented around the idea of like. Well, it's scary to me that you. That I wouldn't have known, that you wouldn't have told me. It's much more about him not telling her than the fact that he fucks his ex wife the day that he's in bed with her, saying if we go to the engagement ring.

[Van Lathan]

And by the way, Sam didn't even try that bitch line.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Van Lathan]

So like, Sam didn't. Hey, hey, baby. I don't know what that lying. That never happened. Prove it. Prove it. It's my word against hers. I divorced her. She crazy. Sam didn't even try.

[Bill Simmons]

Why would I have done that? I'm here with you right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna have sex with her, then come back and plan a life with you. She's fucking crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

You just answered the phone. She knows you're here. She's saying it on purpose.

[Van Lathan]

She's trying to put this on the message. She's trying to break us up. This is what they do, Sam.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very lazy.

[Van Lathan]

Didn't even try.

[Bill Simmons]

Very lazy. Honestly, I liked it. He knew Ally was kind of a pushover, right? And he was getting away with it. Huge power play by him.

[Van Lathan]

He was kind of on his little bit. A little bit.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And then he was going to go tell Ali, hey, Hedy gave me a blowjob. Just letting you know, he was.

[Van Lathan]

This is so crazy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He was going to be honest with dead.

[Van Lathan]

Then you are. He says, I'm going to tell her my dog. How can you tell her?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Like, you nut it, dog. Like you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, 25 seconds.

[Van Lathan]

Here's what I think. She comes. We can get to it.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait. We got to wait on that one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the. That would. How would Van Lathan get out of this one? Should be changed to how would Sam get out of this one?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, come on. It was our anniversary, right? Reveal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Which we talked about. Right into the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Into the shoebox. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want to say, and this is another great. This movie has 15 great movie tropes. I love when our deranged future at the end of the movie is gonna be a killer. Keeps a collection of all of their stuff from their life. Fatal Jackson did this, too. It's like, I'm not only crazy, but it's super easy to find a roadmap to how crazy I am.

[Craig Horlbeck]

All newspaper clippings, alienating evidence was in

[Mallory Rubin]

one place, and it's not even locked. And I put it on my bed, and then I threw a wet towel on it. So, you know, I didn't want you to see it. So you definitely go back.

[Bill Simmons]

Not even hiding the shoebox. There's no sweater over. It's like, shoebox evidence. Like, a big name tag on it. I love it. My favorite scene that's also the most frustrating scene in the movie is the sex club, which features allie just walking 12ft behind Hetty for blocks on end. Not worried that Hetty's gonna turn around and see her.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not even just 12ft behind. The best part of it is that then Hedi goes down the stairs, which

[Bill Simmons]

means you can literally see she's the worst spy ever. All of a sudden, we're playing Enygma, which is a big, horny music. Enygma and Enya were the two horny music things. And we have this sex club. There's like, I guess a live sex show happening or something. There's people in cages.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Yeah. It's like a BDSM club.

[Bill Simmons]

We're there for 38 seconds, and it's like, this is what else is gonna happen in this club. Hetty's having a drink, pretending she's Ally, and then we're just gone. We're back in the apartment. It's like, can I have six more minutes?

[Van Lathan]

Well, you get one thing that's very important is Ali gets approached by lady.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's Right.

[Van Lathan]

Continuing the very present LGBT subtext that exists in this movie, which is the same sex attraction thing that they keep playing with. Is this obsession not sexual? Is this obsession sexual? Ally, in rebuffing, the lady, basically reiterates to the audience that she not down for that type of shit. She's not lickety split.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

So she.

[Bill Simmons]

Because that lady was also kind of scary.

[Van Lathan]

That lady was kind of scary.

[Mallory Rubin]

Quite. You wanna play? No, I don't. She's like, hey, at least not with you.

[Van Lathan]

By the way. Filmed at a club. This will be for Mallory and I. Filmed at a club. Not. Come on, guys. Filmed at, like, filmed at a. Filmed at a club. The name of the club. The Hellfire Club.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Mallory Rubin]

Shout Out, Stranger Things.

[Bill Simmons]

That's where this was Dungeons and Dragons. Looking for them in the club. I just had more questions. I wanted to be there longer. What happens there? Is there like private rooms?

[Mallory Rubin]

I bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Are there mattresses? No questions. What else is going on? Right. And then why would Hedy know about Hetty? This is the one scene I don't feel like adds up with Hetty. She's like this socially awkward librarian who all of a sudden is at this sex club where everybody knows. Yeah, because what's going on?

[Van Lathan]

No one ever lives a life in the day.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

And then that life is incongruent with what they do when they.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not saying that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It just feels like they cut out a scene maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Bill Simmons]

I just felt like the way they presented her was incongruous with her just waltzing into this car. There's no follow up to it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is she in that world? Does she participate in the BDSM stuff? Why is she there?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that's. That question is kind of works, actually, because it's like to. To your point, you can believe that she's maybe always had this secret life and the like I showed up in my frock with my frizzy hair and convinced you that I was just this, like, bumpkin is an act. Or you can believe that she was that person and has been the entire

[Bill Simmons]

time and was playing a part of Teddy

[Mallory Rubin]

Skin. It allows her to go do this thing that she has maybe wanted to do.

[Bill Simmons]

How would she know about that club Bill, when it's. I knew her in their New York. Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying I feel like I'm missing a scene.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that the movie. I can see what you guys are saying with that. Do you feel like the movie Though over the course of a couple of scenes is hinting that there's something more to her. Meaning she's clearly trying to seduce Sam. She's standing there in her panties right now.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I'm getting at. I needed one more with this.

[Van Lathan]

Right. And then you also see that she's tries to kiss him before. That there is some part of her that isn't as safe and mousy and non sexual as what we think, that there's more to her and she's been able to hide it before.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Sam steps in. I do. I think. I don't think he's able to resist.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh yeah. As she says, men are dogs. Right. And Sam certainly is. I think that the fact that we know definitively there are questions about Hetty, we'll get to them in some of the unanswerable questions maybe. And including like the. The original trauma. What happened? She's Ellen. What happened to Judy, the other twin. But you know, she has this like line about. Well, my parents, like the last. You know, the girl in Tampa called them too. In the shoebox. The newspaper clippings that you mentioned, like some of it is about the twin who drowned, but there are newspaper clippings in there about automobile accidents. My read on this is that there is a long trail of dead bodies and lives.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the Western Union lady says that you're always a different.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're a different person. So I think that the sexual. I'm sorry, that's that blowjob is delivered by a person who has given some blowjobs. For sure. Like Hetty is a sexual person. And so part of it is like she is mentally ill. Face down masturbating.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Face down masturbation.

[Mallory Rubin]

Experimenting with not only different motions, but different modes of pressure. Right. Good for her. Get to know your own body.

[Van Lathan]

But

[Mallory Rubin]

why not try new things, Find out what works for you. You know, she is mentally ill, right. There's like a lot of, you know, actual scholarship and then like half assed Internet scholarship about what actually, like what affliction does she have? Borderline personality disorder. What is going on? What sort of sociopathic tendencies are here?

[Bill Simmons]

She had separation with her twin sister that she never saw trauma.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, let me ask you guys a kind of fundamental.

[Bill Simmons]

She's trying to replace her sister.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's how her sister.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she accidentally killed her. Or I think she killed.

[Van Lathan]

I think she killed her. She didn't try to.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And so although we know at the

[Craig Horlbeck]

end they say in the voiceover.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, but well, they say her parents tried to tell her it wasn't her fault, but that doesn't mean it wasn't right.

[Van Lathan]

At the same time, though, there is a part where she is talking to Ally and she is talking about the fact that, in a way, she resented

[Mallory Rubin]

her sister for leaving her.

[Van Lathan]

But she says one twin is always sort of prettier.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. The other one does the hard work.

[Van Lathan]

The other one does the hard work. So there did seem to be some animus between her and her sister that were like a motive and intent.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question. I think it's definitely possible. There's a really valid read that it was an accident and then she or something happened in that moment that then set her down the course of doing this stuff on purpose from there, which is what the ending of the movie positions Ally to be. Right. This thing happened that was not of her design. But then she's got like, the cross, the split face photo, and she's like, maybe Ali's the sociopath moving forward now. But I think because of that line that you quoted, the idea that the one twin is always prettier, there's this covetous aspect right away. My canon is that she killed her twin on purpose. It doesn't mean she didn't then miss her or regret her and spend her entire life trying to fill that void. But the jealousy and longing for her.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the JFK assassination.

[Mallory Rubin]

Unanswerable question.

[Bill Simmons]

Our next scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, the blowjob. It's a great. Like, the hip is out. The hip is elevated to, like. Yeah, Amazing.

[Van Lathan]

So I have thoughts here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Number one, the first thing I have to say is this leads me to believe that Ali isn't sucking enough dick. And I'll tell you.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because you wouldn't know. You wouldn't know it was Ally. Just from the top of her head, she's doing something a little extra.

[Mallory Rubin]

But if she's doing different technique, at

[Van Lathan]

a minimum, she does different technique. Whoa, whoa. You at least mention it, you'd be, huh? What the fuck, babe, what's good? And then you go. You look down and go, oh, shit, that's not you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, but.

[Van Lathan]

But he doesn't really do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he kind of does. He's like, ally, Right?

[Van Lathan]

But at the same time, he like,

[Bill Simmons]

look, no, it's heady.

[Van Lathan]

It's heady.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he has vaccines.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Why do you think they call me heady, Sam?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Van Lathan]

He has the clear chance to opt out. A clear chance to opt out. And he goes, well, that's the question we're on that ride.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no question.

[Van Lathan]

There's no question at all. He rides this to the end and then afterwards he legitimately watched the scene. He turns over and does the shameful after sex pose no question where you

[Mallory Rubin]

fetal position of fetal position.

[Van Lathan]

You turn over and grab it like you're ashamed. He does that.

[Bill Simmons]

This is one of the best scenes of the 90s. Craig, what was your reaction? Did you watch it with Liz?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I did, yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What was your reaction?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I would love to know how many relationships ended right after the movie when the guy driving home went well. I mean, he was pretty close to finishing. Like, it's kind of hard to stop. You don't know what it feels like. Once it's building, what are you going to do?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. It's honestly one of the best scenes of the 90s for me.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

It is. It's iconic. It's so fucking funny to watch it with somebody who hadn't seen it. I mean, I'm watching obviously not a. Not a scene I'd want to really watch with my daughter.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Wouldn't be in my top 10.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but you did.

[Bill Simmons]

I kind of went like this because I didn't want to pretend I was watching. But then as it unfolded, it was so fucking funny. My daughter and my wife reacting and then leading to the whole. They have a great argument.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, it's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

It starts like escalating and it just leads to all of a sudden he's getting a shoe in the eye. This guy's done What a last 10 minutes of life.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. For him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody you thought was your girlfriend but wasn't, but you kind of went with it anyway.

[Craig Horlbeck]

In the beginning for sure.

[Van Lathan]

In the beginning when she first walks in. But guys, I just don't believe after a certain point that you don't know 100% Sam.

[Mallory Rubin]

Again, it is only 25 seconds, which is tough for Sam. I didn't have my phone timed it. 25 seconds very.

[Bill Simmons]

But don't you think he got would

[Mallory Rubin]

nine minute van, like scared and excited

[Bill Simmons]

that it was heady and that kind of got it going?

[Mallory Rubin]

25 seconds, Sam. It's no 9 minute van.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, well, but not like 8 minutes and 35 seconds. But I'll tell you guys, I'll tell you guys though. I'll tell you guys though, like, he. It's just so funny that nine minutes is a herculean. You put it up so that the fact that she is so dope. We're talking about one of them ones Like a fucking Lacey Duvall pinky type of situation going on. Shout out to them and everything that they've contributed. But like the fact that she's one of them ones like that Teanna Trump and I'm not gonna go on but

[Mallory Rubin]

like it, but you could.

[Van Lathan]

That makes sense that she was going to the sex club.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yes, exactly.

[Van Lathan]

That makes sense that she's going to the sex club. She really undercover.

[Mallory Rubin]

You see that blowjob and you know that she has in how many different guises and disguises and assume Personas she sucks some dick before that is clear.

[Bill Simmons]

There we go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sam, the blue light. Unbelievable stuff, yo.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, I believe sincerely that Hetty has a ironclad self defense case in the killing of rushed her. I mean it's not Florida where you could like you know, do that five or six times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she definitely gets off. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

In Florida.

[Bill Simmons]

Although the prosecutor would be like, why did you go into Sam's room at 3:45 in the morning dressed as your roommate?

[Mallory Rubin]

And he's dead. He's got a stiletto to the eye.

[Bill Simmons]

So you know what?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's. I was violated.

[Bill Simmons]

That's tough. Sam called, he wanted to talk to Allie. She was asleep.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he said half.

[Bill Simmons]

He said, why don't you come over? No. Sam said why don't you come over?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I said okay, yeah. And I said, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

The COVID story would be pretty easy to spin for sure. Sam, the fact that he's a good expecting because he said to Hedy, like have her surprise me that he's expecting Ally to show up, that Hedy has the haircut, that she's wearing the like shiny silver trench coat.

[Bill Simmons]

One of the worst coats of the 90s.

[Mallory Rubin]

Their bodies are so radically different. Like they're like, it's like a half a foot in height difference the second she's up in bed. Come on, you know that's not your girlfriend. The second she starts sucking your dick, you definitely know that's not your girlfriend. You gotta know the technique is so different.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a hot take. Greatest orgasm of Sam's life.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Well, I mean there are worse ways to go.

[Bill Simmons]

He's half asleep.

[Mallory Rubin]

Worse ways to go.

[Bill Simmons]

He's woken up the old fashioned way.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Realizes Sam's headache. He's kind of had already been thinking about maybe I should whip it in there one time and Yep, here we go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And. And just really went with it. Had a great time.

[Van Lathan]

So on the backside. That's not outrageous. He's taken out his misplaced guilt on her 100%.

[Bill Simmons]

Because, as we said many times could have stopped her the moment he. No, it's Hetty. You're just rolling over like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Did not do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, he didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, huh.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, he didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Great to see you. What a scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

The most rewatchable scene of all time.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I feel like I remember over the last few years, you pantomiming the scene of the guy who doesn't want to get the blowjob that he's getting. Is that from this movie, or is there another movie where this happens? It is this. I couldn't remember if it was a previous movie we had already covered or if it's Single White Female.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what to do with the last rewatchable scene. We've already. We already know what one. But there's a couple different scenes when Hedi loses her mind.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I don't know. Yeah, I like when she's about to kill Ally with the knife. All gets scared.

[Van Lathan]

Can we count the entire.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it's basically a whole one long scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It's like 30, 40 minutes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So we all have the. The shoe scene is most rewatched. Yeah. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Has to be.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1992 thing about this movie? I had eight entries. So what was your best one?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think, especially given the role of plays in the plot. Landlines and. And answering machines. Like, someone leaving you a message that plays aloud in your home. This is not a thing that happens.

[Bill Simmons]

And also, the. You have no messages.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Was a very.

[Mallory Rubin]

And being able to, like, someone else just goes into your house, they play the tape, they rewind the tape. You know, they don't need your phone password to, like, hear your messages.

[Bill Simmons]

Dan, what Was your favorite 1992 thing?

[Van Lathan]

They literally explained the Internet didn't use it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Literally.

[Bill Simmons]

Right early, like.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. They literally go, hey, you can book a flight. Which, by the way, I did not know that you could book a flight using the Internet in 92. I did not know that you could do that.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm positive he could.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, well, they literally explain the Internet and then they use it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Also at the end. Boiler rooms in movies.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah. For sure.

[Van Lathan]

This thing that used to exist all the time. Shit would happen in the boiler room. It would be a big boiler room situation. I just don't see as many fucking boiler rooms in movies. I guess horror movies kind of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, boiler room.

[Van Lathan]

I got boiler room. In the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

A dial up modem sound too on the front. That's just. That's your back. That's great.

[Van Lathan]

This depiction of also these New York apartments. Apartments like this reminds me like, remember the apartment in Rounders? We rewatch Rounders and we go look at that apartment. She got way the up.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Enigma finding a roommate in a newspaper.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Classified ads for sure.

[Van Lathan]

Of course.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Erasing an answering machine message as a plot device. The early Internet stuff. And I just seeing old school email, like when they show the computer when she's making the airplane trip just felt very 92. But for me, the most 1992 thing is Bridget Fonda. Just like her with this and Singles at the same time. Just feels very rooted in that year to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

More so than snail mail, someone mailing you keys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

People don't really use.

[Van Lathan]

Would Bridget Fonda make the top five Gen X darlings of the 90s? She'd be.

[Bill Simmons]

I have to 1000%.

[Van Lathan]

Who would they be? It would be Winona Ryder. It would be Bridget Fonda.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Winona's Winona. Multiple lists.

[Van Lathan]

Winona is the no, number one Gen X darling Queen, without a doubt.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Ethan. Ethan. Are we going male, female, or just female?

[Van Lathan]

You can go male if you want to.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I think Ethan Hawke. Well, then Ethan Hawke is like. You think Gen X, you think Ethan Hawke.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Ethan Hawke is there. I mean, we're really just doing the cast of Reality Bites.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm just saying, like when you think Gen X, it's those two movies. Right.

[Van Lathan]

But Bridget Fonda would have to be in there because Singles is one of those films as well. But she definitely would be in there.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have Josh Hamilton and kicking and screaming. Like that feels like distinct to me. But then all the music from back then would be the other one. John Cusack was too late 80s.

[Van Lathan]

You don't think so?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's late 80s.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I would.

[Van Lathan]

I would have. I would have put him up there,

[Craig Horlbeck]

but I guess I have a 1992 thing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Taking a Polaroid of your roommate candidates.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So you know what they look like, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is just insane to me. Maybe compose like you're at tsa. It's crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that is weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, we're going to take a break and then do the Floyd Gondoli Award. All right. The Floyd Gondoli Butter on my Ass, Lollipops in my Mouth award for something I just enjoy. What do you have, Mel?

[Mallory Rubin]

So we already did the Do I want to fuck you, kill you or be you story, which doesn't have to be two women like this, like, talented Mr. Ripley. Right? Any movie that kind of orients around that idea. But because we already talked about that, I will throw out to you guys something that in a movie we don't enjoy, would feel disqualifying. But when it's done well, I just fucking love. Even when it is so telegraphed and absurd. A Chekoffs TK list that is as tall as this New York apartment building. The air ducts, the incinerator, the elevator, screwdriver, the stilettos. Every single object or aspect that is going to prove crucial in the plot has, like a blaring siren. When it is presented to us, it is undeniable that it will play a role in the climax of the film. And then they all do, right? All of them. And it shouldn't work. But I love it. I just enjoy it. Check off sex. That's mine.

[Van Lathan]

I love crazy women in movies, man. Yeah, I love crazy women in movies. The crazier, the better. Fatal Attraction. Single White Female. A Thin Line between love and hate. There's never been a crazy woman in the movie that I have not enjoyed. And I especially.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, this is the Lifetime motto of crazy woman and crazy ex husbands or boyfriends.

[Van Lathan]

Ripley is kind of in there. He's in that. Cause there's a scene in Ripley to me where he's dressed up and he's.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he's like dancing. And then I'm dancing.

[Van Lathan]

Ju ha comes in. He's like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible movie.

[Van Lathan]

It's funny, but I love it. And I especially love the scene where the characters no longer play like that woman isn't crazy anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Hey, bitch, you out of your fucking mind? I love it. So, like, this movie to me is the energy, is everybody finding out that she's crazy. And her no longer caring about trying to hide the fact that she is deeply, deeply disturbed.

[Bill Simmons]

There's been 40 years of these movies, really, starting with Fatal Attraction, and I think I've seen 99.8% of them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would have guessed 100% even.

[Bill Simmons]

Like when Hilary Swank made Hers.

[Van Lathan]

Which one was hers?

[Bill Simmons]

She was the one when she was the One Night Affair.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think I've seen this.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a black couple. I can't remember who the actress is.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you talking about. It just came out.

[Bill Simmons]

It came out like two years.

[Van Lathan]

Two or three years ago. No, I didn't get a chance to watch it. Kalika went and saw it. I Didn't see it, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they make it every year. They just put different actors in it and it works every time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My Floyd Gondoli. When a movie or TV character has an inexplicably incredible apartment, that becomes a character in the thing. So this apartment wins the Den of Thieves Beni Hana scene starring location found out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

It also wins the Amanda Dobbins war for best piece of real estate. And it's used in a great way. And I was thinking, like, the best apartments in movies. We just did this with Ghostbusters. That was a good one. Devil Wears Prada. Her apartment's great. In Hathaway's. And then Ghost has a really good one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

All New York City, but there's been some good ones over the years. But this is a good one because I really feel, like I said before about the. Where you never know where you are in the apartment. I think really helps the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

So there's never lights on. It's always like dimly lit and creepy natural light.

[Van Lathan]

There's another good one too, that I always loved as a kid. When he finally starts to get money in big.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, that's the best.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. When he finally starts to get money in big, and then he puts all of that kid like stuff in that apartment that's like a fantastic.

[Mallory Rubin]

The bunk beds and the pop shot at lobby.

[Van Lathan]

I looked up this apartment complex. So right now you can. The cheapest apartment There is about $700,000. They go all the way up to $3.5 million. But if you want to rent, you can actually get an apartment at the Estonia on the Upper west side for 5,000amonth. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it still have the incinerator? Because that would be a big thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Is the screwdriver still on a string in the elevator?

[Van Lathan]

That's $5,000 a month apartment.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's gonna be a pass.

[Van Lathan]

Is 574 square feet.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I mean, that's the thing about this set. You have like the basement. You have the whole apartment. You have the air vents, but their actual apartment. To your point, Bill, about like the. You know, I just enjoy it.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like a struggling computer designer.

[Mallory Rubin]

It doesn't make any sense. And the COVID of, like, the rent control and the history with the former business partner. And she inherited this place in their separation, which makes absolutely no sense. None of that. That's all just lampshading to explain how she has this place and can't let it go.

[Van Lathan]

Why she can't leave.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. It Is absurd how large that apartment is.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the most famous TV example of this was the Friends. Apart from, of course.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you have Monica and Rachel living there. Rachel's the both of them are scraping by. She's like a wannabe chef. Rachel's a waitress. And they have this like spectacular two bedroom ton of light. Was there a better title for this movie? Is a category we never do. I just wanted to flag this one because I think this is one of the best titles of the 90s.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Single White Female is just an incredible title. You know exactly what the movie is. I think it got used in the years later. Like Single Wife Female became like kind of a running joke. Like if you had a roommate. That turned out to be a little.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's become a little single. It's like, worked its way into the vernacularity.

[Van Lathan]

It became an actual, like, psychotic thing. It became an actual thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it's a shorthand for Single white female. Single white female. You know, somebody's roommate's nuts. What stage the best, other than early 90s Bridget Fonda just wearing cute outfits and various stages of dress for two hours?

[Van Lathan]

So a. I put killing. Putting animals in danger for the sake of story. No, I mean, that's a direct attack. I have to say, it aged the best. It didn't age well, but it aged the best because everybody is doing it now.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, can I. Can I interrupt you on that one? Because that was one of my. Whats age the best. My wife's reaction every time there's some sort of pet murder or injury in a movie. It's horrible. She's seen this movie 20 times. And as soon as Buddy comes in, she's like, oh, no, it's tough. Oh, it's like, you already know what's gonna happen. Why are you getting upset? Anyway, go ahead.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crushing.

[Van Lathan]

I gotta say this, Jennifer, Jason Lee is fine. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it looks great.

[Van Lathan]

Hedy's naked body has aged the best. Perky, perky, bruh. Every time, like, I'm like, I'm watching the movie. I'm like, like aging the best is me realizing that Hedy's kind of my type. And I'm actually kind of fuck with Hetty. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

This all tracks.

[Van Lathan]

Does there need to be more black people in the movie? Yes. They needed a drug.

[Bill Simmons]

What's not your type? Is a better question.

[Van Lathan]

Like, on the top floor, the next floor, that, like, I don't know, he worked for UPS or something like that. This movie wouldn't have even existed because he would have taken Heady off of their hands. She'd have been hanging out with fucking Darius from, like, the third floor. Where's Hetty at? Hetty up here. You just said it through the vent. Hetty up here. You about to order some pizza? Okay, don't worry about where Hetty at. Like, the more I watched this, I was like, yeah, man. Every time she was, like, taken off guard by Hetty, like, being naked, I was like, I want to be taken off guard a little bit more. She was doing her thing, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

She sure was.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have, Mal?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think we've hit most of them. Just the roommate horror premise kind of paired with the erotic thriller framework, two lead performances, the specificity of the haircut. We already talked about the haircut, but it's not just that. Hetty gets Alli's haircut and Ally has, like, a bob or something. This is the most specific cut and color so that there's no way to get that cut and not tell Ally and us everything we need to know about this character.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just such a perfect choice. Red hair and a distinct cut combo.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Oh, I just. I didn't think you'd mind. What?

[Bill Simmons]

Not a haircut that really took off either.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I.

[Bill Simmons]

This was not like Rachel and Friends.

[Van Lathan]

I have a rebuke of that, and it's gonna be in recasting.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Ali's fashion has aged quite well. It's kind of iconic. It's just fantastic. Except for that one shiny coat. And, yeah, not just, like, the apartment as a character, but this kind of vibe of New York as a setting. You have this, like, classic Upper west side apartment building and this kind of, like, aspirational slice of life. But then you have the sex club. You have this idea of, like, a city where you can go to reinvent yourself. The fact that neither of them are from there is really perfect. Like, they've both sought it out for different reasons. It's all great.

[Bill Simmons]

I have any scary movie within an incinerator.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

The moment you see that thing, you just know shit's going down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

My biggest thing, though. Peter Friedman as Graham the cat loving gay neighbor Frank. Frank Succession.

[Mallory Rubin]

I shouted at my tv.

[Bill Simmons]

I was watching him going, where the fuck do I know this guy? And I'm just staring it down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I realized when he said, you have my dick in your hand, Hetty, but I have yours in mine. Oh, no, that's. He didn't say that, but he. I just can't believe this. Is Frank.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Just picture Graham bald. It's Frank. There he is.

[Bill Simmons]

Frank knew not to do boar on the floor.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure did.

[Bill Simmons]

So, Carl, you do bore on the floor. I'm going to be over here.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's as good as TV ever got, man.

[Bill Simmons]

But, yeah. Did you. So did you know that was Frank?

[Van Lathan]

Well, no, I. Not at first. I looked up the character, and then I said saw.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Not at first.

[Bill Simmons]

Fucking Frank. I could have enjoyed succession completely differently

[Mallory Rubin]

if I knew he was on your next sauna rewatch.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing. Great shot. Gordo Award, I think, is the shot of her with the tape over mouth when she's doing this. As Hetty's, like, wreaking havoc behind. Just the way they use. It's really legitimately scary for, like, five seconds.

[Van Lathan]

I took the. The stiletto to the eye, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty good. I wish. I feel like CGI would have done a better job.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, there's just. I have so many questions about.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's a really good shot I thought of. Of when Ally is in the foreground and she's silhouetted and just. She's all black, but she's, like, taking off her clothes, and then. And then Hetty comes up behind her, and you can fully see Hetty, but Ally's in the front and all black, and you can't see her fully silhouetted by the light. It's really good, actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at now.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, great fun.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's great. Great stuff. I. I like the clo. That. The way the end credits play over the tape together photos of half of each of their faces. That's like a kind of tantalizing image to close on in terms of thinking about Ally's future.

[Bill Simmons]

From there, Craig, I'll let you take the Chess, Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name since you made the joke last night, Hetty. Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, they knew what they were doing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Hetty.

[Mallory Rubin]

Eddie.

[Van Lathan]

Heddy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hetty.

[Van Lathan]

Heddy.

[Mallory Rubin]

That Raj review has a great quote about her name. Her name is Hedra Carlson. He didn't make a blowjob joke like Craig, but, you know, that's why we need all of these different creative things.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why voices matter.

[Mallory Rubin]

She is played by Jennifer Jason Leigh as a sweet face, friendly little innocent. Those are the ones you have to look out for. I cannot find Hedra in my unabridged dictionary, and yet, somehow, the name teases me. Surely it is the name of a mythological beast that is in the actual Roger Ebert review, which I assume means he thought Hydra.

[Van Lathan]

Hydra.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. Great stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi. Pursuit of Happiness award. Best needle drop. Obviously. Enigma.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question.

[Van Lathan]

No question.

[Mallory Rubin]

The subtitling on that is so good. Men singing Gregorian chant with DISCO drum

[Bill Simmons]

beat Mallory of a flex sucks. You can skip it because I think you might have already done it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I did. I did. The Rose from Titanic. Character sneaky sucks for Graham. Let's see.

[Bill Simmons]

He really did suck.

[Van Lathan]

He did suck.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's got some notes for.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he's just lying in the bathtub with his cat for two days. My wife and I were talking about that last week.

[Van Lathan]

That's a nitpicking conscious until then, because

[Bill Simmons]

we were like, would Murph lie in the bathtub with us if we were unconscious because crazy Hetty knocked us out with a golf club.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's like, a relief that Hetty didn't. Didn't kill Carmen the cat. But it's a different form of torment to, like, leave him there to feed off of Graham, who she thought she had killed. It's very, very upsetting, I guess, for, like, the. The. The. Did this movie need a better sex scene? You know, we get a lot. We have Ali, Sam, makeup chair. Sex at the hotel, which we already talked about. Sam and Ally at the apartment. Ally seeing Hetty masturbating. The severe vibe shift into Mitchell buttoning his pants because he thinks that he's about to get a blowjob as he is trying to rape Ally. The sex club. And then, of course, the blowjob sequence, which we've already talked about. And then Ally kind of kissing Hetty at the end so that her throat isn't slit. So did we need anything beyond that on the apartment front? This caught my eye on a rewatch. You guys notice the mirror above the bathtub? Oh, I think we could have availed ourselves of that in some way. Ally's taking a bath. Hetty comes in. It's uncomfortable. She's encroaching. She's going too far. She just wants to, like, offer to wash Ally's hair or something like that. But really, she's looking in the mirror to try to see all the things she wants to see. Maybe she offers to just, like, wash her back. Where does the hand go? That scene fits perfectly in this movie. It does. And I think it sets up to your point about, like, single white female seeking single white female in a different way. The subtext is there already, so to make it more active, text, I think. And also, I think we just could have gotten. There's plenty of heady voyeurism. Already. But it's a more like clear. How's the peeping Tom? Hetty is just like watching through the crack in the door.

[Van Lathan]

Tommy. Tommy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sam and Ali.

[Van Lathan]

How's the peeping?

[Mallory Rubin]

How's the beeping?

[Bill Simmons]

I. I have a note on the Mallory Rubin category. Even though it's your category.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tell me. Just.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. The chair sex scene. I don't know. Not enough light.

[Van Lathan]

We're fucking with it.

[Bill Simmons]

It felt very like the intimacy coordinator was staging it. I just felt like very acted.

[Van Lathan]

That was before all that bullshit. We didn't have that then.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. It just felt like Go for it. Bridget Fonda. She's naked a few times in this movie. But not really. It's always like discreet or she's covered or whatever. It's like you know what you signed up for.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst. Listening to someone in a different apartment through an air vent. Tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crazy tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Does anyone know anyone that was ever able to do this in real life? Because I don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know what? This just. This was just used as a technique. I thought. Wonderfully in Sentimental values. Did you guys see this movie last year? The Star. Gorgeous film. So they had the. Like. From upstairs you could hear into the downstairs study. This comes up. This is a thing.

[Bill Simmons]

This was a real action movie thriller device though. For a decade.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think there's a giant nitpick here that we can hit later.

[Van Lathan]

But wasn't there a reality show about people in prison where they were talked to each other through their toilets or something like that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Was it? There's like love after lockup or something like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because the sound is like travel.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where they would talk.

[Van Lathan]

Walk through the toilets or something. Whatever. Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't know what your cable habits are.

[Van Lathan]

I apologize.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't you?

[Bill Simmons]

Ali's crazy silver purple raincoat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horrible.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

There was no era where this coat made sense. Awful headache in the puppy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

The. We mentioned the early 90s. Sexual harassers and movies were just the most over the top version of them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have a related stage for Groundhog Day.

[Craig Horlbeck]

They ruined Ned Ryerson from Groundhog.

[Bill Simmons]

Ned Ryerson is just like a.

[Van Lathan]

And the movie flirts with the fact that he might save the day.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is my. What age? The worst. This is genuinely like. You watch it. Brief attempt at redemption for the. Would be ridiculous.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like really? This doesn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

We edit that out now.

[Van Lathan]

Then.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a note on that now.

[Bill Simmons]

But then she's all tied up and he goes to basically untie her. But gets on top of

[Mallory Rubin]

still Mitch Myerson.

[Van Lathan]

You kind of think he's going to undo her and go, yeah, saved you. What you got for me? What the fuck?

[Bill Simmons]

What? Do you have anything?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, two things. Number one, this movie never happens today because you Google your new roommate.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, yeah, so you Google the technology.

[Van Lathan]

Just you Google the roommate, and then you see all the fucking shit. You don't do it. And then number two, this has really aged the worst. To me, the 80s and 90s kink shaming that used to go on is crazy. Think about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you have to be a freak if you went to this club.

[Van Lathan]

Basically, a lot of Police Academy. Remember the running joke Police Academy about the Blue Plate Lounge or whatever was going on? There was an assault on the BDSM community in the 80s and 90s that I don't appreciate. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

That we're over that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm with you.

[Van Lathan]

We're over that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Billions opens with Chuck Rhodes getting burned with a cigarette butt and pissed on. And that's how it should be, folks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And we're back.

[Van Lathan]

You know when it ended.

[Bill Simmons]

Come all the way around.

[Van Lathan]

You know when this assault ended? It ended when the BDSM club was kind of the club that outed Vito Spatafor in the Sopranos because he was there. It's a fucking joke. You better not tell anyone. After that, we kind of came to it because we love Vito.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other what stage the worst? Cause I have two more.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think just like Ally Colon, tech genius.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you don't like it.

[Mallory Rubin]

What is her business exactly?

[Bill Simmons]

But this is. We've talked about this. Another podcast, 92 to 95. You could basically do anything with the Internet and nobody knew anything about the Internet, so you could just pull it off.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, yeah, she's just. And then the account shuts down in 24 hours. She's like, none of this stuff exists.

[Mallory Rubin]

Enough of a coding genius to put in a payment bomb. But the business seems to be basically like, change from solid olive to leopard print with one click. And when Mitch the Rapist asked to see it, it's like, here's the invoice.

[Van Lathan]

It's proprietary. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I can't get any science even though I'm a coding genius. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Never sit here working coding anything. She just seems like she goes to get ice cream. Great old school shop.

[Van Lathan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple important. What stage the worst?

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

When Hetty dies.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When Ally kills her. I really think it needs a line like, you're off the lease. Like some sort of Schwarzenegger line. I think we need some sort of levity there.

[Van Lathan]

You're evicted.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're evicted.

[Bill Simmons]

This is your eviction notice.

[Van Lathan]

This is your eviction notice.

[Bill Simmons]

Cuz the movie's so campy. I think at that point, just have

[Mallory Rubin]

fun with it now. You don't need to find another apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

This quote. Did you know that identical twins are never really identical? There's always one who's prettier, and the one who's not does all the work. She used me and then she left me. Just like you. I'm giving this the earn this award for the line that should have been shown to William Goldman first. They're just pouring it on a little too much. Let's do better with our screenwriting guys. Yeah. And then this is just for me personally, but the Jennifer Jason Leigh, I have to give her the Ted Levine award for a performance so good and distinct may have ruined the actor's career. Did not ruin her career. It ruined her for me. I just see Hetty after every movie she made after this. I'm like, watch out for her

[Van Lathan]

Hans

[Bill Simmons]

Gruber scale villain ranking. I mean, it's way up there.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you have her way up.

[Bill Simmons]

I have her lower. Cause I actually feel bad for her and kind of liked her.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, no, I. I'm sorry. Threw Buddy off the balcony. Previously had kicked Buddy leaves Graham's cat to feed off of his supposed corpse. She thought it was a corpse. Also, like, murders a lot of people, but it's the animal stuff for me, that takes it up to.

[Van Lathan]

She was activated, but at the same time, she's c. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Ruffle Hand and Ruben Partridge over acting Word. Obviously. Stephen Tabaski. Just Stephen Tobolaski. Yeah. Just dialing it up as Mitch Meyerson.

[Mallory Rubin]

Boy, is he.

[Bill Simmons]

He's basically like he had to go back the other way with Groundhog Day to just make us like him again. After the Mitch Meyerson thing, what do you have for your Flex fan list?

[Van Lathan]

I'll be quick. Top five. This motherfucker is crazy. Moments in movies like the moment in the movie you realize that this character is out of their fucking mind. Number five is a tie. Bishop in Juice and O Dog in Mil. Killing of the convenience store people in these movies where you go, yo, why did you do that? You're crazy. Number four. Haiti comes down the stairs.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. With the new haircut.

[Van Lathan]

With the new haircut. Just an all time. No, she's really out of her goddamn mind. Moment number three. Still a scene that creeps me out. The Annie I hate Profanity moment from Misery. You remember this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

He's telling.

[Van Lathan]

He's like, ah, I'm just going crazy over. Where he realizes, yo, I'm in trouble. Number two, the fight Club self beat up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, sure.

[Van Lathan]

By Ed Norton. You could also go with later on when you realize that it's all in his head and there's no Tyler Durden. Spoiler number one is clear. The craziest moment of anybody that's ever been crazier in the movie is Buffalo Bill.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, of course.

[Van Lathan]

In the Goodbye horses scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of course. Bill's favorite.

[Bill Simmons]

I was gonna say Bill movie.

[Van Lathan]

You're right. He's now got the skin on and the whole nine. You're looking at. This is the craziest character we've had in the movie ever.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've done a number of those on rewatchables. Strong list.

[Van Lathan]

Anything.

[Bill Simmons]

She's gotta get the hose again. Isn't she precious? I would have thrown Wangro in there.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Wagro.

[Bill Simmons]

Wangro just shoots the. Shoots the guard in the van. There's no resource he.

[Van Lathan]

I had to get it on. But. But you could go for that. You also could go for the time that rang Ringro, like, randomly kills a prostitute for nobody. Well, that.

[Bill Simmons]

But we already know he's crazy.

[Van Lathan]

We already know he's crazy, but we know that he's got an impulse control problem at first. The second one is this guy is actually like a homicidal maniac just killing

[Bill Simmons]

random gans in 48 hours. That's a good one, too. Yeah. Oh, the Sierra. Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest takeaway. I kind of did mine with Fonda and Sandra Bullock. I have another one, but I feel like Van's going to do it. Or one of you is going to do it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have two. One of them is what Van kind of already has alluded to a couple times, which is like, Hetty, better roommate than Ally. Is this where you want to talk about it a little bit?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Van Lathan]

This is Ali's point.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we all have this out of stick.

[Van Lathan]

A lot of this. I could make a.

[Bill Simmons]

Was Allie asking for it?

[Van Lathan]

Was Ally. I could make an easy pro Hetty argument here. Easy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Heady. Fixes the plumbing, makes breakfast, offers to make dinner, makes tea. Dries your wet clothing. Compliments your fashion. Encourages you to stand up for yourself at works, Defends you to your shitty boss. Ally snoops through your stuff.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Mallory Rubin]

Allows Hetty to think that she was abducted and killed in the scary city of New York.

[Bill Simmons]

Lies to her about the lease. Yeah, my boyfriend and I aren't coming back.

[Van Lathan]

The original sin of the movie is Hetty asking her, you're not just going to go back to him. Ali completely lies and then puts Hetty in the basket.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, be a good roommate. She wants to hang out with you. Well, just, like, have breakfast with her for 40 minutes. It's not hard.

[Van Lathan]

Walks into her room while she watches her masturbate. Watches her masturbate with the goddamn puppy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Follows her to a sex club. She can't go to a BDSM club, by the way.

[Van Lathan]

Goes through her stuff. Not the second time, but the first time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, she's, like, looking at her prescription pill.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at perfume.

[Van Lathan]

Going through her shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Walks up to Graham's house, Graham's apartment, just to shit talk her for an hour with the vents. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I do have a related. Sort of like the inverse of that hottest take. It's still an anti Ally take, but it kind of is also, thus an anti heady take. This gets back to the idiot plot thing. Okay, okay. Ally too dumb to live. That's the take. Is Ally too dumb to live? I'm sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

The list she does get. She does get very resourceful. With about 15 minutes left in the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Way too late.

[Bill Simmons]

For reasons that make turning up the

[Craig Horlbeck]

volume on the TV smart.

[Van Lathan]

That was smart.

[Mallory Rubin]

Way too late.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Savvy move.

[Mallory Rubin]

Way too late. Missing mail. Missing messages. The steady growing volume of the matching outfits. This person is stealing your wardrobe. Got your exact same very distinct haircut. Has a secret identity in a shoebox waiting for you to look through. Uses your name at a sex club. Responds to you going out for a night with your boyfriend by screaming at you. Where the hell have you been? Finds you and your boyfriend in bed. Goes and brings your boyfriend a soda. Talks to him while he's naked, and then immediately go master. And masturbates with. With the door open. Says, threes a crowd to your dog as she is feeding your boyfriend breakfast. Scares Mitch. Appropriate. But does it by threatening his family. Worrying. Right. Ally calls Ellen's parents and is like, I'm sure you have the phone number. Based on what? Why do you think they have the phone number and know where your daughter. Daughter, who has assumed a false identity. Is unfazed by a sink full of bloody clothes. All Hetty has to do is pretend she got her period and Ally's like,

[Van Lathan]

a lot of blood.

[Mallory Rubin]

That makes sense that there's a sink full of clothes.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why you have blood on your clothes, including. It's like the fucking OJ Nicole.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crime scenes are coated in blood. And you're like, this always hits when I'm wearing something nice. Allie too dumb to live. I'm sorry.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

The only person I think dumber in all the From Hell series is the mom and him that rocks the cradle.

[Van Lathan]

She's like, legitimately. She's actually a poorly written character.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She's the stupidest person. And we might have to deal with her in a later episode. I have a hottest take as we're thinking about this that I didn't know I was gonna have, but I have now because you mentioned Mr. Ripley. Is this movie a better ending if Allie just gets killed by Hetty and Hetty takes her life in the last 10 minutes? She's just now heady. I mean, now just Ally.

[Mallory Rubin]

I kind of think so.

[Bill Simmons]

She has all her clothes. She has her haircut. She's not on the lease. She just starts.

[Van Lathan]

I hadn't thought about it.

[Bill Simmons]

She goes to the sex club and she's like, hey, Ally, what's. And it's just like, I've now taken her.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I tell you what, it's a

[Bill Simmons]

better ending than the ending we had.

[Van Lathan]

If that happened. The movie is, for some reason, like, more memorable because her becoming Ally. Ally doesn't know anyone. Ally doesn't seem to have any family. You could pretty much take over Ally's life in New York.

[Bill Simmons]

This honestly works with Mr. Ripley really well. I really enjoy it when he becomes what's his face. What's Jude Law's character?

[Mallory Rubin]

Dickie Greenleaf.

[Bill Simmons]

Dickie Greenlee. I like when he becomes Dickie Greenleaf.

[Van Lathan]

What's funny about the end of Mr. Ripley is with everything that Tom did, you almost still feel sad for him

[Mallory Rubin]

at the end of the movie. Of course.

[Van Lathan]

That the walls were closing in on him.

[Bill Simmons]

He had it off the ground. Cate Flet shows up on the cruise.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you guys watch the Netflix Andrew Scott black and White remake of it a couple years ago? I thought that was really good.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I tried.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. There's a great cat in that one, too.

[Bill Simmons]

There are no casting what ifs for this movie other than the one we mentioned.

[Van Lathan]

So there's none. There's not a. There's. Oh, no. We have to do recast in Castle. I'm confusing.

[Bill Simmons]

Best that guy award is clearly Stephen Tobolowski.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ned Ryder always anytime he's in the movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you know what his name was?

[Mallory Rubin]

Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No. Although I'm starting to learn it. He's been in enough of these movies. I will shout out brief mom.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, he was just that guy for Basic Instinct.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Brief moment in this movie is the Happy Gilmore Grandma.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Francis Bay.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great one.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, the winner might be Graham for this because Peter Friedman. It's Frank from Succession, but I'm not positive. I knew his name was Peter Friedman. Did you know that was his name?

[Van Lathan]

Fan? Nope.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think that might be the answer. Dan Waiter's a word. Weirdly as Steven Weber. He's only in like, three scenes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

I went with including. You could go with him.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know why.

[Van Lathan]

I thought he was in the movie too much. I went with boss.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, me too.

[Van Lathan]

I went with him.

[Bill Simmons]

Mitch.

[Van Lathan]

Mitch. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So you support sexual harassment Recasting couch director or city? There's only five characters in this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know. It's a small cast. It's a weird one.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I actually feel like there should have been another neighbor next door or.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Something extra. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Let's say for recasting.

[Bill Simmons]

I like your idea of guys adopting heady Darius.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, not enough heady.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Unreal.

[Van Lathan]

Amen.

[Bill Simmons]

Heddy. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, come on, girl. Hey, come on. Don't worry about them. Hey, bring the dog, man. We want some, bar none. Hetty, Eddie here. We cool? We cool. Don't worry about it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great movie.

[Van Lathan]

Incredible recasting couch. Halle Berry as your lead.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Same haircut.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, wow.

[Van Lathan]

So when I thought about the iconic boomerang haircut.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is great.

[Van Lathan]

The boomerang haircut. Halle Berry as your lead.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is why you're you now.

[Van Lathan]

You got all kinds of fucked up shit now. You would probably have to make the movie in, like, 96. Right? Cause, you know, we're coming off the rise. We don't need to incite people more. But, like, it's like, we'll need to. We need to get back together, you know, we need to get back on the same.

[Bill Simmons]

They've reincited the ride.

[Van Lathan]

Like, we don't need to get. But like, if you had Halle Berry, I think something really fucked up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one.

[Van Lathan]

That makes the Sam scene a little tougher because he's white, but it also makes it a little bit better. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, you have to recast Hetty, too.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't think so?

[Van Lathan]

Nah. It's still single white female. You leave it the exact same, actually.

[Bill Simmons]

You lose the red hair. Red hair thing, but you gain.

[Van Lathan]

You gain all of the stuff we.

[Bill Simmons]

Extra stuff.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You gain some really good stuff.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is the phrase single white female referencing Ally or Hetty?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it's initially Ally. It's single white female seek. Same is the classified ad that she puts in to look for a roommate.

[Craig Horlbeck]

She's not looking for a single white female.

[Mallory Rubin]

She is a single white female seek, Sam.

[Van Lathan]

So she's what she's looking for.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yes, right, Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, ironically, I was. The next category I had thrown in here was the Van Lathan Award for Did this movie need more black people? I think we've answered it. We needed Darius.

[Van Lathan]

Darius from the fourth floor. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, what's your flex category?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, God, I have kind of a lot I can throw. I don't even know what category this is. I guess it's a hot take. I. I just think this movie features the weirdest sleeping arrangements and preferences that I've. That I've ever seen in a movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

This drives me crazy when people turn around where their feet and heads are in the bed.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That makes no sense.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hate it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Everyone is sleeping with the door open with roommates. You just met everyone. Why is everybody sleeping in like, like, flimsy nightgowns? I don't understand that at all.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, that's. I think more like it's New York.

[Bill Simmons]

We're set in a mood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's warm. You just met, you have a brand

[Craig Horlbeck]

new roommate, and you're just roaming around in some little gown. You're leaving your door like they're not even locked, let alone closed.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the female version of Dudes whip their dicks out next to each other at the urinal. Like, if you have a roommate, you wear a nightgown without a bra. It's fine.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like now. Would you ever keep your room open when your door open? When you're sleeping with roommates in your 20s? Like, were you doing that?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't do it in my house now.

[Craig Horlbeck]

This is crazy that all these doors are wide open.

[Mallory Rubin]

I prefer a closed door.

[Bill Simmons]

Closed doors.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So comfortable in this film.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what category that you just created, but it's definitely something.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't know what it is.

[Bill Simmons]

Also going the single way. Female sleeping arrangements awarded. Habits bizarre.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, I had the same thing. The okay motherfucker. For the exact moment when this movie goes up a notch with Buddy the dog. But I think we need to add a category for. I don't think we have this. The second you see a character, you know they're going to die.

[Van Lathan]

Love it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The second I saw Buddy, I was like, that dog's Dead.

[Van Lathan]

Buddy's dead. Like, you know, that almost was. I promise you swear on my dad that almost was the list. The list was almost. I couldn't think of enough characters. The list was almost. And then I misremembered the movie because Graham survives the movie. But, like, Graham is a character, and Sam, you know, they're out of here. They're fucking desperate.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the Lifetime movies will have, like, somebody's friend who starts getting a little nosy or like, oh, no, we're gonna.

[Mallory Rubin]

It kind of fits on the Chekhov's list. It's like Chekhov's pet. Who the crazy roommate's gonna kill. And like, even a subset within that is, you know, the moment. Because when she calls Buddy over and he won't come to her, you're like, well, this is. If she's gonna kill Buddy now.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, because he prefers to come over just like everybody else's a psycho. You gotta suck up to her. Yeah. The bunny from Fatal Attractions. Like that too. All right, we'll take one more break and then we'll rip through the rest. All right. Half ass Internet research. So there's the. This poor test screening with a ending that got reshot. I really, really did a lot of recon on this, trying to find out why it was different. I found an article about Schroeder, said the studio said I could go ahead and reshoot. There was a technical problem. I decided with the extra money, I could do better. I ended up adding another beat to the climax. Spent 60,000 a day for two days. I don't know what the re shoot is, but when you watch it, it's one of those movies that feels like it's going to end and then it doesn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it end.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I wonder, like, would. Was this a better movie if she just killed. The elevator fight scene is just the last scene. We never go back in. We're not climbing in vents. There's not a rat. Do we just get rid of that and they die in the elevator? Might have been the better way to do it.

[Van Lathan]

And the elevator is foreshadowed a little bit too.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is the screwdriver.

[Van Lathan]

Or you do the whole.

[Bill Simmons]

The elevator stops halfway through the floors and somebody gets dismembered or, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that seems likely as well. Throughout, it just feels like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like something's missing.

[Van Lathan]

It seems like the movie didn't really want to commit to Hetty's death. Hetty could have had a grander death.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean. Yeah, even. Like, there's something about the voiceover at the end where you're like. That sounds like Hedy talking, you know, like, I think they're trying.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the ending is really weird in this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't get the photo mystery and the intrigue.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the point of the photo with the split thing? Like, we would have that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think to put Ally in the heady position, like this trauma. And that goes back to the unanswerable thing, like, did Hetty always mean to kill her twin? Or was it just a terrible accident or some impulse that then led her down this path? The idea that Ally has now done this thing that will lead her down this path and that she is now in the headdy position. She's keeping Hetty's possessions. She's talking about trying to forgive herself. The ending of the book, which, like, Van, I have not read but did a little like, okay, what happens in this book, it is really different. So that makes it even harder to try to figure out what they changed because it's so distinct from what the actual story is.

[Bill Simmons]

You mentioned the Hellfire Club.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They wanted it to look like a club called the Vault, which was another fetish club, which is why they had the red signature V from the Vault, which. I know. You know, probably not, but it was all an interior set. And then. So in the blowjob scene, Bridget Fonda is actually in there for a second because there was some. Jennifer. Jason Lee wasn't ready, and they needed somebody for a shot. So she actually is in there at one point, which is why that fucks

[Van Lathan]

with the audience a little bit too. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex mountain, Bridget Fonda, 100%. Definitely. For sure. 1992, was it. Jennifer. Jason Lee's a tougher one. I don't even.

[Van Lathan]

Well, you gotta go with the.

[Bill Simmons]

Really know what it is. She had a long, really storied career.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The Fast Times. That's not it. You get here. It literally was her breakthrough role in a lot of ways. But then.

[Bill Simmons]

But some would say Rush was. So it's probably early 90s somewhere.

[Van Lathan]

But then she gets. But then hateful eight is like an Academy Award nomination. And now she's. She's back and more relevant than almost every.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, fast times is 82. Hateful Eight is 2015. That's just a long run of.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for New York City movie apartments? Got a lot of good ones, including the Reiners one you mentioned. But it's probably Ghost, right? Ghost? That apartment.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Ghost is awesome.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a great one.

[Van Lathan]

Because there's also the sharded glass in the window that is set inside of the apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

Apartment.

[Van Lathan]

Which gives it a leg up on some of the other apartments. That was inside the apartment right when they were making the clay Ghost. Poor Sam.

[Bill Simmons]

Ghost tells us what happens to people when they go to hell. Yeah, it's true. Told you that before. Stephen Weber, who's in this and Wings at the same time. I feel like this is it for him.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's crazy to me that he's the Wings guy. I loved Wings.

[Van Lathan]

There's a whole class of Steven Weber type guys that. That I thought were going to be

[Bill Simmons]

a little bit more Tony Goldman was that.

[Van Lathan]

Until scandal comes. Like a whole bunch of guys and they just. They couldn't pierce past the. They couldn't even get to like the Kevin Bacon level. It seems like they're just kind of gone.

[Bill Simmons]

Puppy murders. Apex Mountain.

[Mallory Rubin]

I. I think it's John Wick.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's John Wick. John Wick.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that a puppy in John Wick? I can't remember. Yeah, you're right.

[Van Lathan]

Like. Like thousands died because that puppy died.

[Bill Simmons]

Evil movie roommates. I think this is it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't think of anything then. Enigma. Definitely.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. You do A good chance. A good coral chant. Everyday objects as murder weapons. Is it this the stiletto or is it the ice pick from Basic Instinct? Tough one.

[Van Lathan]

I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

Because she uses it in a non murder scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, but the stilettos are also used in a non murder scene because they have. They both try them on and it's gonna buy them.

[Van Lathan]

Obscure one from a really popular movie. Of course, the Joker's pencil trick.

[Mallory Rubin]

Also on the John Wick front.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gonna make this pencil disappear.

[Van Lathan]

You remember that scene?

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't seen Joker in a while.

[Van Lathan]

From the Dark Knight.

[Mallory Rubin]

From Dark Knight.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Dark Knight.

[Van Lathan]

Like I'm gonna make this pencil disappear. It's gone.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then he pushes the guy's head down.

[Van Lathan]

That is like for an interest. He already. We had already seen him for an inch. We were in the Arclight.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like great one.

[Bill Simmons]

It's gone. I wrote down how would Van Lathan get out of this one? With question marks. But I feel like you already kind of did it. Unless you want to do it.

[Van Lathan]

Which one?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's the thing you could pick. You could pick the blowjob scene. You could pick the ex wife anniversary scene. But I feel like you already did it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, let's get out of here. Because really the only way to get

[Bill Simmons]

out of here actually. Can we do this what? Hedy doesn't kill Sam. She leaves, storms out and tells Ally what happened. I went in, Sam called me over and I ended up.

[Mallory Rubin]

I gave him a call. Come on, say the quote. Say the quote. Say the exact quote. Ali, he came in my mouth and then he tried to beat the shit out of me because I wanted to tell you. Okay, That's a line in the spot.

[Van Lathan]

Well, let me tell you something. First of all, honestly, incredible. Honestly, I feel so. I feel attacked having even had this conversation with you. That's the first thing I wanna let you know that at first. Because you see her fucking haircut. You see the haircut and forget about

[Bill Simmons]

the fact that this woman's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[Van Lathan]

She's fucking crazy, by the way. I didn't know it was you. But you even like indicting me over this after you've seen. Let's go to her room right now. I bet you if we go to her room right now, we gonna find some crazy shit, because that motherfucker is crazy. Now, did I enjoy it? That's not a question for you to ask me. I'm a man. There's biology.

[Bill Simmons]

Kitty said you knew it was her, then you kept going.

[Van Lathan]

And that's not what happened at all. First of all, like, I didn't know it was her.

[Bill Simmons]

I was asleep.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, you can't say I didn't know it was her.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the. You can't do it. That's the one thing you can't do.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you said you were asleep. I wasn't even awake.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was 3:30 in the morning. Maybe you can get out of it. You cannot say. I thought that was.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, but let me tell you something.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the.

[Van Lathan]

You gotta go full toxic here though, man. You gotta go full toxic. You gotta say, you know what? As a matter of fact, I only lasted about 30 seconds. And that's because I'm not getting what I need from you. This is a separate conversation we gotta have.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the Bill Clinton strategy.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It worked for Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

We were missing something in the relationship.

[Van Lathan]

There wasn't the spark that was there. Now, I have to say, after we get rid of her, because we gotta get rid of her because I feel like she gonna go crazy. Crazy. Me and you gotta get away.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. We have some things to work. Santorini, yeah, beautiful there.

[Bill Simmons]

Santorini, beautiful there. Cruz or Hanks? So this would be for the Sam role? I think it has to be Cruz.

[Van Lathan]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cruz and Sam.

[Bill Simmons]

But fighting off the blowjob. Would be one of them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, great.

[Bill Simmons]

10 seconds. Rewatch most history.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, you're right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hanks could be Graham, though.

[Van Lathan]

Hanks could be Graham. I don't know why I thought of, like, a.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably a step down for him.

[Van Lathan]

Common era. Bosom buddy era. Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanks. Oh. As Sam. Interesting. Scorsese or Spielberg? Guess what, guys? We're retiring this category because last week we did it with Spielberg for 2001. We can't top it. Category's done. Put a fork in it. We can't top that. Craig. No, we had Spielberg himself weighing in on Scorsese or Spielberg and seemed to be really enjoying it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, we do need to give Scorsese's take.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna ask a question.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll bring it back. If Scorsese ever comes up, I'm ask

[Van Lathan]

you a question, and I don't know if you're gonna be able to answer the question because of all the people you've ever interviewed and had on, I have to notice, have you ever interviewed anyone who is as good or as cemented at the thing that they do, which is one of the biggest things? I'm not talking about, like, the best cornhole player in the world. I'm talking about if you're talking about just moviemaking, one of the five guys. Have you ever interviewed or anyone who is as good and successful at the thing that they do as Steven Spielberg. It's hard. You have to have, like, Muhammad Ali.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You interviewed Bill Russell, right?

[Bill Simmons]

That's Obama. The one moment I could think of that could match Spielberg was I interviewed Larry Bird and beating in 2012, and we were talking about modern players, and he did this whole thing about Kobe that literally changed my mind on how I felt about Kobe as a basketball player. He's like, Kobe Bryant's my favorite basketball player, and here's why. And for, like, two minutes, I was just.

[Van Lathan]

It took Larry Bird to say it, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

It really did.

[Van Lathan]

Every time I think we're gonna get there. Every time I think we're gonna get there, people ask me all the time, like, Bill's actually a real fiend.

[Bill Simmons]

He basically.

[Van Lathan]

Larry, say something to piss me off.

[Bill Simmons]

Larry Bird basically revealed I am a Kobe guy, not a LeBron guy.

[Van Lathan]

Guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Over the course of, like, 90 seconds. And it was a bit. But Spielberg, like, no, it's nuts.

[Van Lathan]

Like, he. You can make an argument that the.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's the best director ever, probably that

[Van Lathan]

he invented the blockbuster. Like, he's the reason why you go to the multiplex. Like, he. He is the reason why this podcast maybe exists in a way.

[Bill Simmons]

After we finished the pod, Sean did his thing that Sam does.

[Van Lathan]

After he changed his pants after the

[Bill Simmons]

blowjob, he went in the fetal position. Pick a Nick hits.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, boy.

[Van Lathan]

All right, cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Ally, just the most gorgeous computer coder designer ever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, you can be hot and smart. I'm okay with that.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. I'm just, Just pointing it out. The lights in the apartment were never on.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Why kill buddy? He's your only friend. Nobody likes you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because she's not mentally well.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's just a sign that she was truly crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

This is your guy. Take him for some walks. Have some buddy time.

[Mallory Rubin]

She wants to be chosen. And he did not choose her.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very sad.

[Bill Simmons]

Why would Sam think Ally wanted to come over at 2:30 in the morning in New York City? Just hop in a cab. It'll be totally safe.

[Mallory Rubin]

Never surprised me, especially in the 90s

[Van Lathan]

in New York City.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple more really good ones, but you guys go if you be quick.

[Van Lathan]

Number one, Hetty is like 40 against grown ass man. Yeah, she fucking Ronda Rousey. She like, she legitimately.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have this one too.

[Van Lathan]

Like, she legitimately is undefeated against grown men. Graham gone. Sam gone. Like asshole boss gone.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Mitch BYERSON. Yeah, she's 3 and 0.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. She's basically overpowering grown ass.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe she was doing Muay Thai.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe she was.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe it specifically is the Sam one though, because, like, she shoots Mitch in the head.

[Van Lathan]

But she shoots him after a stroke.

[Mallory Rubin]

She does. She has like a metal crowbar from the door to hit grand with. And he lives. The, the. The force, the torque, the velocity that you would need to brain somebody with a stiletto is like astonishing. Paul, I believe that you could puncture the eye, but we're going through into the brain so that he is in. He's not like twitching on the floor. Instant death from one swing is tough.

[Van Lathan]

Like, she really.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know it's made of metal, but not.

[Van Lathan]

And then other than that, I just think. I mean, you don't check the vitals on Graham. Graham is in there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. That's sloppy. That's sloppy, right?

[Van Lathan]

Sloppy killer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, but, but heavy is sloppy. There's some other related. Like on the stiletto front and the sloppy front, she sloppy. She leaves the bloody stiletto out on the bathroom floor. That's like worse than having all of your secrets in a shoebox. Come on. Yeah, I mean, we see her like do the full deep clean on the apartment. That's just. That's a big Picking knit. I. I think on the air duct front. And the sound traveling. There's a really big picking date here. So. Hedi, obviously we know that Sam has been listening to Ally. But in a crucial moment in the movie, Hetty hears because she dropped something

[Bill Simmons]

next to the event.

[Mallory Rubin]

She hears the conversation between Sam and Ali. Which means that there's just no believable way that at no point would Allie have heard Graham through the vent and realized that sound traveled through the vent. It just doesn't make any sense. It's just. It's like borderline disqualifying. But I'm okay with it.

[Bill Simmons]

I have. Would you actually die from taking a high heel through the eye?

[Mallory Rubin]

It would have to go.

[Bill Simmons]

Or would you roll around and go, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, it should be a longer and more anguished death scene.

[Bill Simmons]

I die from that, Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Not me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not you.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, not you.

[Bill Simmons]

I think would really have to get in there.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he just died from shame,

[Craig Horlbeck]

probably in that scene. Wouldn't he's like, fingerprints, saliva be all over Sam.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's getting caught.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like she has no chance.

[Van Lathan]

Pre DNA, though.

[Bill Simmons]

She's still getting caught.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, we're not.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've talked to some of these other movies in this time period. Like, it's. Yeah, she cleans their apartment, but she doesn't clean the hotel.

[Bill Simmons]

This is another picky knit for me. There is a witness who thinks it's Ally.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. The hotel.

[Bill Simmons]

The Hotel atherton. Concierge at 3:30 in the morning.

[Van Lathan]

Just.

[Bill Simmons]

Just hanging out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nice to see you.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Ms. Jones.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's this guy doing? Nobody's ever been in a New York City hotel had anyone behind the counter after like one crazy. The heady's heel still has blood on it after she leaves the hotel and walks all the way home. Yeah, it's still a blood mess.

[Van Lathan]

When the blood.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Her leaving the heels out is ridiculous.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's nuts.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. So this was part of the reshoot thing for me. Graham's dead, but then he's alive. But then when you see Graham just kind of of he's fine. Resurfaces for the fight scene. But if you really look at it, you don't see his face. I almost feel like that was part of the re shirt. But they couldn't get Graham.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like there's one moment where my wife and I are arguing about this. Cause I had to watch again last night. She's like, no, no, you can see his face right there. And I was like, I don't know. Can You.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought so.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird. He comes in to save the day, but he's kind of like doing the thing. Yeah, it's like the Al Pacino stuntman in heat band. Yeah. Remember the Asian guy who's Al Pacino stuntman in heat when they didn't realize we were gonna have 4k uhd blu

[Van Lathan]

rays but the 80s would do that. Sometimes they would just like not even

[Bill Simmons]

give somebody another picking.

[Mallory Rubin]

That is like in the end the fight. A couple things on the alley front here. Again, you're about to be burned alive and you let a rat reveal your location. You have to Mission impossible. Krieger that rat. You just have to. You can't. You got to squeeze the rat and kill. You can't knock the rat on top of head catches and like let the hun continue.

[Bill Simmons]

There's more rats. Rats too.

[Van Lathan]

Relatedly, great character.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Oh, Krieger, just fantastic.

[Van Lathan]

Great character.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, fantastic. Ally is a mashup of spider man and Rambo at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. How's she like climbing up in the

[Mallory Rubin]

vents and hanging swing hangs from the

[Bill Simmons]

back of the back of this.

[Van Lathan]

This is. This is the Erica Liniac you like. What's the name of the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Under Siege.

[Van Lathan]

How did you get this good? This quick crazy starts off jumping out of the cake by the end. Navy Seal that happened in the 90s all the time.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a single gym scene with her in this entire movie. Doesn't make it happen. Equinox. I'll be back in two hours. Nothing. Sequel prequel Prestige tbr Black cast or Untouchable? I'd like to present to you Single Black Female starring Amber Riley and K. Michelle.

[Van Lathan]

Shout out to Sal.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they made a sequel. There's a second one. There's a whole franchise now. Now I have not seen these.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie, the Florist, San l, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols or someone else?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I mean Wayne Jenkins fits right in. Called up from Baltimore to New York, takes the Amtrak, the Asela Express. There is apparently a detective character in the book. Detective Sergeant Kennedy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So there's a role and frankly to your point earlier about it's a really small character set in a small cast. Like need the police to be involved at some point.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody looking for heading.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep. Yeah. So.

[Bill Simmons]

So this one could be a better scripted series almost.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, that would be great. Wayne Jenkins. Like I didn't know we were dealing with super software engineer. You know, get Wayne up there.

[Bill Simmons]

God damn Ally the other picking nit

[Craig Horlbeck]

based on that you're so right.

[Bill Simmons]

Like.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So the second Ally puts the TV up too loud, like the whole building comes and checks on her. Yet there's gunshots with Stephen Tobolowski. No one's there. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

True. Five guys.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

I had for this. Mike Breen, who's now in the finals. Yeah. With Allie whirling around the high heels.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one. Great one.

[Bill Simmons]

Just want to ask her who gets heady.

[Van Lathan]

Easy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jennifer. Jason Lee. No question.

[Van Lathan]

Hetty. Easy. Jennifer Jason Lee. Easy. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

You think it's Fonda?

[Bill Simmons]

Stephen Weber. No, I think it's Hetty. Hetty. If it could have been best supporting actress, she had a chance. Probably in answerables. We did. Did Hetty kill her twin sister or not?

[Van Lathan]

I got another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Would Heddie have died of hantavirus anyway?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh my God.

[Van Lathan]

Had she not been killed.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did she sniff any rats?

[Van Lathan]

She got a rat thrown on her.

[Mallory Rubin]

She did.

[Van Lathan]

Did she inhale open wounds?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanta.

[Van Lathan]

Hetty, she got a rat thrown on her. She had open wounds on her. Would she not have died? Died of hantavirus.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyway. Yeah. Great one I mentioned. I'm not sure Graham's in the final scene. I have one more big one.

[Van Lathan]

Did you.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have on mouth?

[Mallory Rubin]

We've hit a bunch. Like how many people has had he killed? Does Ali have a psychotic break like Hetty at the end? What? What is your explanation for how Ali got the rent control department in a professional dispute and settlement with a former business partner? You walked off with the hardware and a rent controlled apartment. Is that a thing that happened? Happens?

[Van Lathan]

No, I wouldn't have no clue. I'm not even sure I really know all the rules around rent control stuff. I have no clue. I have no frame of New York reference for that type of thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bizarre.

[Bill Simmons]

My big one is how did Sam's funeral go? Like, let's walk through that for an hour.

[Mallory Rubin]

Does the ex wife Lisa give a eulogy?

[Bill Simmons]

Ex wife's there. Blant probably hates Ally's guts. The parents are there. They're going to want a story for how their beloved son Sam died. And the story is. Oh. Sam's fiance had this crazy roommate that dressed up like Ally and went to his apartment. They had sex and then she killed him with a high heel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Ally, it's great to see you though.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. What's up? How are you doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Like that is one of the most awkward. 30 years.

[Mallory Rubin]

Swing by at the holidays the whole time.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Allie, if it's cool, can you not come to the lunch after the funeral?

[Van Lathan]

It could be a little weird. It could be even deep. The family could have always liked the ex wife in the first place. Didn't want them to get divorced. So now you, young New York whippersnapper, got his son killed. And then at the same time, your friend Graham is behind you saying, hey, stop all that fucking crying. Don't cry no more. It's a few. Don't. He wouldn't. You can't bring him back. Stop fucking crying. It was weird.

[Bill Simmons]

The ex wife is definitely like, she did this. Yeah, it's her.

[Van Lathan]

He would have been with me.

[Bill Simmons]

She's the one that murdered him. The memorabilia you'd want, you'd most want from this movie is clearly the high heel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think it has to be.

[Bill Simmons]

I put that right behind Van right now. It'd be dangling over him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, you should get it.

[Van Lathan]

You should.

[Mallory Rubin]

You could probably find that prop somewhere.

[Bill Simmons]

I would. All the props are out of control now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, make it happen. I think you deserve to treat yourself. The wig, what else?

[Van Lathan]

All the props out of control.

[Bill Simmons]

The prop market is out of control.

[Van Lathan]

I am so fucked up in the hit, literally, when you said that.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Fin. Mr. Miyagi Word. Best, worst life lesson. I don't know. Check your roommates more carefully.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Pet proof. Your apartment. Also, it's okay to live alone. How about that one? It's okay to live alone.

[Bill Simmons]

Make Sam pay for it for a couple months. Best double feature choice.

[Van Lathan]

Van, how went with the Net? I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Go Internet? Yeah. Little 90s Internet. Little Sandra Bullock female apparel.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Whole deal. I like with the Net.

[Bill Simmons]

I did Hand that Rocks the Cradle because it's the finals of the two dumbest characters from a 90s movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a great one.

[Bill Simmons]

Just ignoring mounting evidence that something sinister is happening.

[Van Lathan]

I fucking forgot something. I gotta ask you about it right now. I know we're getting to the end. This fucking character is crazy. You could put the Hand that Rocks the Cradle breastfeeding situation in there as well. What is crazier? Coming down the stairs with the hair or the breastfeeding?

[Bill Simmons]

Can I twist this?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, go ahead.

[Bill Simmons]

It's more. What gets a more visceral reaction from your girlfriend or wife as they're watching this? The. The breastfeeding scene or the I'm walking down the stairs, I just took your hairdo?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it's the hair.

[Van Lathan]

You think it's the hair more than the titty?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, the hair is crazy.

[Van Lathan]

Boy, that scene drive them crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

That got an actual gasp in the theater, which I remember When I saw Hand that Rocks the Cradle, they're both bad. She brings the boob out. It's like, oh, no.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, by the way, I submit something. Both the Hand that Rocks the Cradle, but more specifically, single White Female. Underrated date movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. Underrated Something for everybody.

[Van Lathan]

Underrated date movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Something for everybody.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

All erotic thrillers are good date movies.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you have for double feature?

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna go with Fatal Attraction because of the Bunny Boil and Balcony Bunny, which is painful, but they are of a piece.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Tough.

[Bill Simmons]

I just. Even though we've already done our rewatchables, just watched it two weeks ago to get ready for From Hell month.

[Mallory Rubin]

Always appropriate.

[Bill Simmons]

Extraordinary movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just incredible.

[Van Lathan]

Fatal Attraction.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Extraordinary.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great one.

[Bill Simmons]

The courting scene is when it's like, oh, it's pouring rain. Let's get a drink.

[Mallory Rubin]

The best.

[Van Lathan]

It's the voicemail, the answering machine message for me. She is so.

[Bill Simmons]

I will not be ignored.

[Van Lathan]

I would not be ignored. She is so Alex.

[Bill Simmons]

She's amazing in that movie.

[Van Lathan]

She's phenomenal.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Mallory Rubin]

Jennifer Jason Lee.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

She's the most enduring character from the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know, because part of who won the movie is who won it over the next few years, Right? And this combined with singles is the Bridget Fonda moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Moment.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think Jennifer Jason Leigh's the best person in the movie. I don't know. It's kind of.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're both great. They're both great.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, who won the movie?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Probably Jennifer Jason Leigh. Fonda's kind of a visionary, though. She's. I'm going to remember her forever.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, you never saw this movie? No. What were your thoughts watched with Liz?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I found this movie to be refreshingly watchable. I thought it was going to be, like, from a violence and horror standpoint, relatively tame. I feel like nowadays, like, the weed is just stronger now. Like movies like Obsession, which is like another kind of like, sexual psycho thriller that's out right now. That movie is super gory. It's just you can take a date to a single white female and probably not have to, like, get her consent first because this movie might be fucking terrifying. A movie like Obsession, you kind of just can't go to that movie. Movie. I'm saying, like, you have to argue with somebody on, like, a session, being like, yo, we're going to a date.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It might be fucking terrifying. This movie's, like, kind of right in that sweet spot where it's scary and creepy and weird, but, like, it's still pulpy. And it's more of just a fun conversation on the way home. And you're not scared to go back to your apartment? Which I liked.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I will not. Obsession. Scared

[Craig Horlbeck]

Liz. Liz's main takeaway was that every woman in her life has. Has come across a head. And it's whether or not you kind of can escape it or not.

[Bill Simmons]

Just extricate yourself from the heady.

[Mallory Rubin]

So there was a situation on our

[Van Lathan]

crew one time where two guys wanted the same jacket. One of my friends had a jacket and the other one of my friends wanted that same jacket. The only problem was that this jacket that my one friend had bought was at Wilson's the Leather in the mall, Louisiana and Baton Rouge. And the reason why he was able to afford the jacket is cause his girlfriend, future wife, worked at the store. So the only way my other friend could afford the jacket is that she gave him the discount. But my first homeboy, who was the owner of the jacket, didn't want him to have it, of course, didn't want him to have the same jacket. So he told his girl, don't give him the discount. He then went behind his back to the girl directly and asked her for the discount and then tried to play with her brain a little bit to make her give up the discount. I remember when we were having this conversation as a crew, I remember my homeboy being like, yo, man, this is some single white female type shit that you on right now. And that's the only time I could ever think of anything like that happening amongst men. Because when you talk to ladies, always this bitch trying to dress like me. She trying to fuck my man. She trying to be me. She trying to like all of this shit. I got to get the fuck away from this bitch. I've heard that so much.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, we didn't talk about the single funniest scene in the movie, which was when Heavy goes down into the basement and quickly gets in the suitcase to see if a body. I was like, what is she? Is she hiding in the suitcase?

[Mallory Rubin]

More sloppy work from the person who left the bloody heels out. She's taller than you.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, Apex Mountain for Bobs, probably early 90s, right? You have Demi Moore, Ghost, you have this. You have Halle Berry. Boomerang.

[Van Lathan]

That was a very popular haircut.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't know if it was. Is it a bob? Is it a pixie?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think this is more pixie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's coming out of the 80s because we had. Remember we did Legend of Billie Jean. Yeah, that Was a different version. It was a little longer on the. On the bottom. This was just more like kind of boy hair.

[Van Lathan]

Gotta have a great neck for that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's just such great stickiness to these, like, early 90s movies because of the era you're in. Like, the computers, everything, the way it feels. It's so memorable and specific.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's great. You watch the movie, you know exactly where you are.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's like my double feature would be disclosure for the same reason. Like the feeling of the tech in that movie and the odds.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a good pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So good.

[Bill Simmons]

I really wish I could tell stories from the last three decades with my wife of different tiny, single white female situations that popped up. It would easily be a divorce. She'd be so mad at me.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be epic.

[Bill Simmons]

There's been so many good ones. I have so many things to say, and I'm just not going to.

[Van Lathan]

But to me, the thing that always gets me about it is at first, I'm almost always dismissive of these stories. You come up to me, okay, somebody else is trying to be. Cause sometimes it's your girl telling it. Sometimes it's your girl's friend telling it. All right? She want to be like. And then you sit down and you listen to this shit and you be like, nah, she fucking crazy. For real.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I feel like times have changed. I feel like in the 90s, you gave people the benefit of the doubt. Now you don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Didn't they basically remake this with Leighton Meester, the Roommate? That was what, 2011?

[Bill Simmons]

It wasn't a.

[Mallory Rubin]

Basically they remade.

[Van Lathan]

They.

[Bill Simmons]

It was her and Minka Kelly.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was just a complete ripoff of it, but was missing part where neither of them were gross and became like they were both hot roommates that moved together.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And they're. They're redoing it now with Jenna Ortega. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, they're actually. That's an actual remake.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's an interesting.

[Van Lathan]

Single Female.

[Mallory Rubin]

Single Single Female.

[Van Lathan]

Took out the white.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Of course.

[Van Lathan]

Woke mob. Woke mob taken over. I can't believe it. Come on, man. We were past this anti white racism. What the hell is going on?

[Bill Simmons]

Single White Female. What an amazing movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Wait, what's next week are you going to announce?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what next week is, but if you go on Netflix, we got them to license a bunch of from hell movies, including, I think the Good Son is on there. Single White Female, Hand that Rocks the Cradle, Domestic Disturbance, the funniest movie of the 2000s. The unintentionally funniest. I can't wait for Craig to watch that one. It's really gonna be special. I think Breakdown might be on there. I don't think they get Pacific Heights, but there's a bunch of them. So we're trying this thing. We did it with the comedies, too, where just tried to get them to license a bunch of them and break

[Van Lathan]

down the characters, though Breakdown is the most elevated one.

[Bill Simmons]

Breakdown's good.

[Van Lathan]

Breakdown's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But I think all of these, I'm just so happy they're in our lives. I'm happy you guys are in my life. Matt VAN Lot of fun. Thanks, Craig. Thanks, Kahal. We'll see you next. Week on from hell. Week from hell. Month from hell. Summer. We know what it's going to be.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sam.