The Rewatchables Podcast – "Sinners" (2025)

With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wesley Morris
Date: August 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This special episode of The Rewatchables dives deep into Ryan Coogler’s 2025 instant classic, "Sinners." Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wesley Morris gather for a rare discussion of a brand-new release, reflecting on its immediate impact, rich themes, cultural meaning, performances, and why it’s already achieved Rewatchables status.

Theme:
"Sinners" is a genre-bending, Southern horror-action-musical-tragedy centered on a Saturday night in the Jim Crow South, following twin brothers Smoke and Stack as they prepare for a juke joint party—only for the night to be invaded by literal and metaphorical vampires. The movie explores Black art, appropriation, survival, legacy, and joy amid tragedy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Rewatchability and Cultural Frenzy

• Instant Classic: The hosts break with tradition to discuss a current-year film, noting "Sinners" is only the fourth film in this category (after "Get Out," "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," and "Top Gun Maverick").
• Cultural Flashpoint: The movie sparked discourse not just for its plot, but also for its bold allegory on Black art, fame, and American history.
  • Bill: "It’s six movies in one movie! It’s a vampire flick, a one-location horror, a blues movie, a religious critique, and it all happens over one wild day." (19:07)
  • Van: "I have been and remain transfixed by what the movie was able to do." (11:58)
• Box Office: Discussion on the business around "Sinners," its $90M budget, making over $350M worldwide, and media fixation on recouping costs.

2. Historical and Social Context

• The Delta and Black Culture:
  • Van: "There is something about the American south that is supernatural… all the spirituality and culture that had to be developed in response to brutality, it exists there in a very distinct and special way." (10:04)
• Jim Crow South: The movie’s setting is deeply atmospheric but not exploitative; it "lets Black people in the movie be people," not just historical symbols.

3. The Vampires as Metaphor

• Appropriation and Obsession with Black Art:
  • Wesley: "These vampires are real, but also serve a metaphorical purpose. They’re not just outsiders seeking to steal Black culture—it’s also about white business and Black artists." (36:00)
• Notable Quote:
  • Wesley (27:29): “Sinners is a nightmare in which Black art is doomed to be coveted before it’s ever just simply enjoyed.”
• Invitation/Consent: The film uses classic vampire lore—having to be invited in—as a nuanced stand-in for consent in cultural exchange.

4. Performance and Craft Highlights

• Michael B. Jordan as Smoke and Stack:
  • Praised for nuance and physicality playing twins. "To play twins...it’s a whole other level of acting. I felt like the twins were slightly different in ways that, the more I watch, I recognize them." – Bill (52:25)
  • Marked as a career pivot or "prime start" for MBJ.
• Miles Caton (Preacher Boy):
  • First film role; a revelation as both actor and musician. Potential breakout star.
• Delroy Lindo (Delta Slim):
  • "Best performance in the movie to me." – Van (44:09)
  • His car scene analogy linking blues with lynching is called one of the film’s most powerful moments.

5. Spectacle and Music: A Cinematic Event

• Musical Sequences:
  • Notably, the "Sammy sings" scene is debated:
    • Bill: "Incredibly rewatchable to watch...just a mesmerizing five minutes." (100:18)
    • Wesley: "I just wanted the whole song uninterrupted… For me not to like it, something is going wrong." (101:04)
    • The sequence’s blend of surrealism, folklore, and cross-cultural musical history is seen as ambitious, polarizing.
• Direction & Score:
  • Ryan Coogler hailed as "this generation’s Spielberg" for his ability to balance relatable populist spectacle and artistically daring storytelling (177:24).
  • Ludwig Göransson’s score ("new wave John Williams") is lauded, especially for mixing blues with metal.

6. Sexuality and Joy Amid Tragedy

• “It’s a horny movie!” (19:49):
  • The film is frank about sex, desire, and love—presenting it not as risk but as part of survival and joy.
  • Memorable dialogue:
    • Haliee Steinfeld as Mary, to Stack (81:07):
      “I heard you loud and clear, but then you stuck your tongue in my coos and me so hard, I figured you changed your mind.”

7. Fame, Exploitation, and Survival

• The panel discusses the psychological cost of fame (MJ, athletes, musicians); the way Preacher Boy is "hunted" by the vampires becomes a meditation on how Black genius is sought, consumed, and often destroyed.
• Van: "I think these people go crazy because we drive them crazy. And we don’t mean to, but we do." (29:59)

8. Endings, Tragedy, and Legacy

• The hosts agree the film is a tragedy—almost no one “wins,” but the survival of Stack and Mary as immortal vampires offers a troubling coda: living forever means never seeing the sun again.
• Both the ending and covert post-credits sequence are called "all-time rewatchable scenes."
  • Wesley (47:23): "I just kept hearing Stevie Wonder’s ‘They Won’t Go When I Go.’"

9. Representation and Performance

• The film’s embrace of Black life and the authentic casting gets highlighted, especially the prominence of women (Annie, played by William Wosako), complex couples, and body types Hollywood rarely celebrates without caricature.

10. Rewatchable Scenes and Categories

• Most Rewatchable: The juke joint party, the musical showdown, Delta Slim’s car monologue, Mary’s arrival, the final coda in 1992.
• Most 2025 Thing: Twins technology, IMAX filmmaking, streaming on “Max,” and Coogler’s hardline business deal.
• What’s Aged Best: Authentic period detail, garlic-eating scene, character names (Smoke, Stack, Cornbread), and the look of the film.
• What’s Aged Worst: The opening week “is it profitable?” media coverage.
• Weakest Link: The unrealistic 8 vs. 50 vampire fight scene.

Notable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

• On cultural metaphor:
  "The vampires here… their interest is confused. Their own interest is confused. The metaphor isn’t quite fixed… It’s brilliant." – Wesley (04:37)

• On Black southern life:
  "What would it look like for Black people in the south to just be living a Tuesday?... Saturday night is the biggest night of the week for certain Black people." – Wesley (07:11)

• On Black art and fame:
  "Do your gifts actually attract evil?" – Bill (28:41)

• On the power of music:
  "When you hear those early recordings… it was no different than what Preacher Boy did. The Stones heard it, the Beatles heard it, everybody heard it." – Van (34:29)

• On Coogler’s process:
  "He does the real research for this. That’s not his process. Doing Sinners, he’ll get every single piece of the movie correct. That takes real time. It’s a labor of love.” – Bill (12:46)

• On representation:
  “Hollywood has turned its back on the brilliant beauty of a Black woman in… her natural form… That type of Black woman, we love them. And Annie, she grounds his character.” – Van (87:01)

• On MBJ’s performance:
  “It’s a movie star role. Every actor that’s going to be a movie star needs one just like that…where they show their entire range.” – Van (52:27)

• On Coogler’s status:
  “He’s Spielberg. He really knows how to be theatrical…to sell it and combine a great movie and make it feel like a popcorn movie.” – Craig (177:24)

Section Timestamps (Selected)

• [04:37] – Wesley on metaphor and style
• [10:04] – Van on the Delta’s mystique
• [19:07] – Bill lists everything the movie does
• [27:29] – Bill reads Wesley’s line about Black art being coveted
• [36:00] – Wesley on white business vs. Black artists
• [52:25] – Bill on MBJ’s acting accomplishment
• [81:07] – Mary’s sexually explicit line to Stack
• [100:18] – Debate over the "Sammy sings" musical scene
• [177:24] – Craig compares Coogler to Spielberg

Memorable Moments

• The Most Rewatchable Scene: The epilogue in 1992 with Stack (now a vampire) and Mary; "Each time I watch, it gets better… it brings the whole movie together." – Bill (49:11)
• Comic Relief: Ongoing jokes about director’s “cutting scenes,” garlic-eating on set, and who’d play the best vampire in a hypothetical recast (Tom Cruise, Denzel, Will Smith).
• Sequel Pitch: The hosts fantasize about a prequel involving the twins robbing Al Capone in Chicago (168:20).
• Unanswerable Questions: Do Stack and Mary listen to Irish music in 1992? What did they do for 60 years between the movie’s main event and coda?

Final Takeaways

• Who Won the Movie?

  • Unanimous: Ryan Coogler – for vision, execution, and pulling off an original and uniquely Black American myth.
  • Runner-up: Michael B. Jordan, for his career-defining dual role.

• Awards Buzz:

  • Multiple Oscar nominations predicted (Best Picture, Actor, Supporting Actor/Actress, Original Screenplay, Score).
  • Score by Ludwig Göransson highlighted as an odds-on favorite.

• Enduring Impact:

  • "Sinners" is praised as both stunning entertainment and intellectual/cultural achievement.
  • The film balances tragedy, joy, folklore, and Black life in a way rarely—and perhaps never—seen on screen.

For Fans: If you haven’t seen "Sinners," it’s recommended to watch in a theater for the full sensory and communal experience. The hosts assure this is a film that will grow in significance—and rewatches—for years to come.