‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Someone to Watch Over Me" with Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Rewatchables
• Host/Author: The Ringer (Bill Simmons)
• Episode: ‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan
• Release Date: April 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan delve deep into the 1987 erotic thriller "Someone to Watch Over Me", directed by Ridley Scott. The hosts explore the film's intricate plot, character dynamics, and directorial choices, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis of why this movie remains a compelling rewatchable despite its flaws.

Overview of "Someone to Watch Over Me"

"Someone to Watch Over Me" centers around Mike Keegan (Tom Berenger), a dedicated New York City police officer whose life takes a tumultuous turn when he becomes entangled with Claire Wilkes (Mimi Rogers), a wealthy socialite. The film intertwines themes of fidelity, temptation, and moral dilemmas, set against the backdrop of Ridley Scott's signature visual style.

Discussion of Casting Choices

Bill Simmons highlights the casting of Tom Berenger, commenting, "You just got to meet the Machine. You want to talk about that a little bit?" ([03:00]). Berenger's portrayal of Mike Keegan is praised for its authentic depiction of a man caught between duty and desire.

Chris Ryan brings attention to Lorraine Bracco's role, stating, "Lorraine Bracco first movie. She's phenomenal." ([05:38]). Bracco's performance as Ellie, Mike's wife, adds depth to the narrative, showcasing her ability to convey complex emotions.

The hosts also explore potential casting what-ifs, pondering whether actresses like Sharon Stone or Susan Sarandon could have elevated the film further. Bill muses, "Sharon Stone screen tested for Claire and then it went to Mimi." ([59:18]), reflecting on the impact different actresses might have had on the character dynamics.

Ridley Scott's Directorial Influence

Zach Lowe notes Ridley Scott's meticulous attention to visual elements, saying, "Ridley Scott is the most visual director I've ever worked with. He actually paints with light and with lenses, with angles." ([10:23]). This distinctive approach is evident in the film's atmospheric New York settings, from the cramped duplex in Queens to the sprawling Guggenheim Museum.

However, the hosts debate whether Scott's focus on visuals sometimes overshadowed narrative coherence. Bill criticizes the sound design in action scenes: "Then she punches him. Terrible sound effect for the punch." ([41:21]), suggesting that technical choices occasionally detracted from the storytelling.

Key Scenes and Their Impact

The opening party scene is highlighted as a quintessential moment that sets the tone for the film. Bill Simmons describes it vividly: "I'm just gonna get a drink and talk to the lady who asks if I get hard when I shoot people." ([63:27]). This scene encapsulates the film's blend of tension and understated humor.

Another pivotal moment discussed is the Guggenheim chase, where Mike pursues Joey Venza through the museum's iconic spiral hallway. Zach Lowe appreciates the location choice: "It's also awesome chase location because of the spiral hallway right in the Guggenheim." ([36:53]).

Critical Reception and Flaws

Despite its strengths, the film received mixed reviews. Bill Simmons references Roger Ebert's two-star review, highlighting criticisms about the film's high-concept execution: "There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the script in which the hero sleeps with the wrong woman... the makers of this film got so carried away with their high concept that they missed the point of the whole story." ([30:01]).

The hosts agree that the ending is a significant flaw. Chris Ryan remarks, "The last 10 minutes just... what the movie is these guys." ([30:11]), pointing out narrative inconsistencies and unresolved plot threads that undermine the film's overall impact.

Themes and Character Development

A central theme explored is the midlife crisis juxtaposed with police duty. Zach Lowe observes, "It's a midlife crisis movie and a cop movie around it." ([07:22]). Mike Keegan's struggle between his commitment to his family and his infatuation with Claire drives the emotional core of the film.

Ellie Keegan's reaction to Mike's infidelity introduces a mature portrayal of marital conflict. Bill Simmons notes, "Somebody's doing something terrible, but you can kind of see it and you're not holding against them." ([06:46]), appreciating the nuanced depiction of forgiveness and resilience.

Comparisons to Other Films

The discussion draws parallels between "Someone to Watch Over Me" and other 80s erotic thrillers like "Fatal Attraction" and "Body Heat". Zach Lowe states, "It pulls off the hardest thing you can pull off... It's a choice between women." ([06:46]), aligning it with contemporaries that explore similar themes of desire and consequence.

Additionally, the hosts compare Ridley Scott's work here to his more acclaimed films like "Blade Runner" and "Alien", noting a departure into more commercially-driven storytelling without sacrificing visual grandeur.

Conclusion

"Someone to Watch Over Me" presents a complex intertwining of personal turmoil and professional duty, underscored by Ridley Scott's visual prowess. While the film excels in character portrayal and atmospheric settings, its narrative inconsistencies and a lackluster ending prevent it from achieving classic status. Bill Simmons concludes, "It's a couple squares short of 80s movie bingo, but it hits a lot of them." ([83:46]), recognizing its place as a rewatchable piece that offers ample material for analysis despite its shortcomings.

Listeners who appreciate deep dives into film mechanics, character studies, and directorial influences will find this episode both insightful and entertaining, offering reasons to revisit this underrated 80s thriller.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Ridley Scott is the most visual director I've ever worked with." — Bill Simmons ([10:23])
• "It's a midlife crisis movie and a cop movie around it." — Zach Lowe ([07:22])
• "There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the script in which the hero sleeps with the wrong woman." — Bill Simmons referencing Roger Ebert ([30:01])
• "Somebody's doing something terrible, but you can kind of see it and you're not holding against them." — Bill Simmons ([06:46])

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen. Listen to your podcast. Let's go. The rewatchables are brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the watch with cr. Still in on the last of us.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, still in.

[Bill Simmons]

Heard shit's going down on that show.

[Zach Lowe]

Going down? Yeah. Nobody's safe.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody's safe. It's a nobody's safe show.

[Zach Lowe]

How about Andor? Are you gonna check that out?

[Bill Simmons]

You keep telling me to.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. A novelistic approach to the Star wars galaxy.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want to see John Hamm steal from his friends. That's where. That's where I am, TV wise. My name is Bill Simmons. Ciara and I have been doing. We did the first rewatchables ever. It started in my. It started my pool house. This might be the last one. Every once in a while we do a one for us. Yeah, we've been circling this for a while. But really Tubi, who is not a sponsor of this podcast and I'm mad at Tubi because they won't give us kiss to death and they can actually fuck off. So this is not a sponsor. But every once in a while, Tubi understands us. And they kept shoving someone to watch over me. Yeah, always. Hey, have you heard about this movie? It's like now that I heard about this movie, I've seen it 30 times and we said, fuck it, we're doing the rewatchables. It's next. An unwilling witness. I never saw anybody killed before. I've never been a detective before. Undeniable attraction.

[Zach Lowe]

You get off this case or you don't come home.

[Bill Simmons]

Unforeseen danger. I know you have a wife. I'm not asking for anything, but I'm scared. A collective classic thriller with a twist of romance. Someone to Watch Over Me. Rated R special. Advanced preview Saturday at select theaters. All right, cr. I thought Craig's text this week encapsulated this one perfectly. He's flying home from the draft and he texted us about this movie. I Looked this movie up and it's exactly the type of. That gets me fired up for rewatchables. Mid budget action movie I've never heard of with a big director and some has been actors.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, well, for Craig and her has beens. For us they were. They were the big beautiful faces on screen.

[Bill Simmons]

They were wases or they were isis. They were gonna be. So I have the flawed rewatchables checklist because we've had some flawed rewatchables. We've done a lot of ones for us. Eight millimeter. Probably one of my favorites.

[Zach Lowe]

You just got to meet the Machine. You want to talk about that a little bit?

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I really, I really, I really blew it by not saying Machine. Love your work. Cause I kind of froze. I think Chris Bauer, who plays Machine was so stunned that I opened with I love 8 millimeter.

[Zach Lowe]

What did he literally. What did he say when you said that?

[Bill Simmons]

He was just. Because I'm sure these guys.

[Zach Lowe]

He gets a lot of stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

He must get a lot of Sabaca.

[Zach Lowe]

Where do I know from?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, who knows? Maybe he was on Law and Order. But yeah, I don't think he gets a lot of 8 millimeter. Anyway, flawed rewatch was checklist. Here we go. Is it okay if your movie is flawed, but it's an incredibly cool hang? I think it is.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it okay if I like the performances more than the actual movie? They're in going to say yes. Is it okay if I had a great time the entire time and then the ending fell apart and I'm not going to hold it against the movie? And then is it okay if an excellent director said plot schmot. I care more about how this looks. What other. What other. What other flawed rewatchables? Like things where you're just like, I'm just going to forgive this because I'm having a great time.

[Zach Lowe]

I think there's gotta be a big ensemble that you're excited about seeing. Yeah. Random guys. I think Someone to Watch Over Me has a bunch of really random choices by random actors.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Where you're like, why are you bringing this energy to this scene, my man? It's like, doesn't matter. You're dead anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

I love that. I think a lot of faces. So Someone to Watch Watch Over Me has. You'll see, like, oh, there's Jerry Orbach.

[Bill Simmons]

There's.

[Zach Lowe]

There's Mark Moses. Like a lot of guys that are just kind of floating around in there. And I, I gotta say, for us, I think flawed rewatchables do Demand a little bit of sexual intercourse. Like, I think it helps to have, like, a little bit of sex, a little bit of violence.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we'll talk later about whether there was enough.

[Zach Lowe]

I know, but just even like the hint of it or like the neurosis around it, I think it really helps.

[Bill Simmons]

So I watched I put this on tubi last week because I couldn't find anything. And it was like 11:30 at night. I was doing my classic I'm not quite tired enough yet in a movie. And I just put it on and then ended up watching the whole thing. And that was when I texted you after. I was like, it's. We just gotta bang this out, so can stop watching this. But I think the number one reason I like this movie is because I'm just. I saw this movie when I was probably a senior in high school. I just love Mimi Rogers in this movie. And I don't. We can have the whole Mimi Rogers conversation later. But this Claire character is so compelling. But then we also have this Lorraine Bracco.

[Zach Lowe]

This is the thing is that I feel like you and I are Wilbon and Kornheiser here, where I'm like, that's your girl Mimi Rogers. But I'm like, mesmerized. Berlarion Bracco in this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Who. When this movie came out, nobody knew who she was. It was a complete out of nowhere. And it was a complete out of nowhere for Mimi Rogers. And the only person we had a history with was Baringer. But you have this moral choice for this cop where he's like, I have this great queen. And they do a really good job with the family life stuff. This great family life. My house is just big enough. It's cool. We're all together. We're bust each other's balls. I have all these great friends and my wife is cool and she's. She's kind of like, queen's hot.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. A queen's eight.

[Bill Simmons]

She's queen's nine and a half. And then. And then he's with Mimi Rogers and he goes into her world for five seconds and he's like, this is Princess Diana.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's just battling that. But I think the most. My wife was. We were talking about this and she's like, why do we like this movie so much? And I said, because it pulls off the hardest thing you can pull off. Somebody's doing something terrible, but you can kind of see it and you're not holding against them.

[Zach Lowe]

Isn't this why we love this, like 85 to 9597 run, where you get all these, like, erotic thrillers and indie movies, like, where it's Body Double, Body Heat, Sea of Love, Big Easy, Fatal Attraction, Sex Lies in videotape all the way up through Eyes Wide Shut. Even where you're like, this is just really interesting. There might be a genre movie happening around it. So there's a cop movie happening around it. But what you're there for is this guy's midlife crisis in this crossroads that he comes for. Comes to where he's like, God, this is like a complete fantasy land up here in Manhattan. But then I have, like, this decent life.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And you're actually kind of like. You can see both sides of it, no matter where you are in your life. You can kind of see, like, I can see why this would be pretty seductive. But also, you got your kid and your wife over here and.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're doing good.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's a moral crossroads movie. Maybe that's a genre. Fatal Attraction, which comes out the same year. This is just. And this is probably to be his greatest year, 87. They should just have. One of the categories. Should be. And by the way, this is not an ad for to be, because they could fuck off because they haven't given us Kiss of Death yet. But they could do a carousel category just called 87.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And there's like 20 of these that they made this year. But Fatal Attraction was the one that I think did the best.

[Zach Lowe]

I would like that. The carousel should be called. You should probably Go home now.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't have that drink.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Don't have that martini with her.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's a lot of. They'll set up in the beginning. Oh, man, this guy's really got a nice life. Really. There's usually only one kid. They never have two, because. Two. It gets a little chaotic. The one kid they can both have the relationship with, he'll bust the parents balls. They'll throw some scene in the first 15 minutes where either they just had sex or they're thinking about it and the wife still looks good. But you can also see why he would get seduced by a Mimi Rogers or crazy Glenn Close with her hair. There's. He's kind of, you know, this is. He's settled into whatever his life's going to be. But there's that small piece of him going, huh, I wonder what else is out there. And these movies just attacked it for 10 years.

[Zach Lowe]

So I love the way this movie opens. The first few scenes outside of the nightclub part where you're getting to see Tom Berger's character, Mike Keegan. He's got this duplex in Queens, and he's making breakfast for his family.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And it's very homey, but you can see him tripping over skateboards. The kid is really fun, but when he's, like, done with his napkin, he just throws it into the kitchen. Like, everything about it is charming, but, like, a little, like, man, we're really, like, living on top of each.

[Bill Simmons]

We're cramped in here.

[Zach Lowe]

And then when he goes to Claire's apartment, he gets lost in it. It's so big that he can't find his way back. There's so many doors. And really, Scott never, like, overdoes it. He does it by visually showing you what a completely different universe this guy is in. And that's where you get to the Ridley Scott part of this, where it's like, this guy is so talented to be doing basically, like, a pulpy erotic thriller.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Um, and he's. He's able to elevate it, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

So off of what you just said, Mimi Rogers had this quote. Ridley Scott is the most visual director I've ever worked with. He actually paints with light and with lenses, with angles. And it's a very unique process. It becomes an element of the story because Ridley creates such a strong mood with his visuals. And she was saying, like, he almost cared more about how something looked than. Than what the actors were doing. And she was saying. There was that YouTube interview. I. I did a Mimi Rogers deep dive.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Our girl Bobby Waigant, who had these weird interviews in Dallas where they just keep the cameras rolling even before the interview starts.

[Zach Lowe]

It's just like.

[Bill Simmons]

And you just see them awkwardly in it, and it's the most awkward things you've ever seen. And she's got, like, the big bun hairdo.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she's just like, Chris. So the watch. It's doing well, huh? And then you're like, yeah, it is doing well. And you could just tell these people are doing 130 interviews in five days.

[Zach Lowe]

We've kind of now arrived back at that where it's like the. You know, the Sinners cast, and they're like, do your favorite dogs reverse rank five.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

There's more creativity while eating your favorite snack.

[Bill Simmons]

Blindfold chicken wings.

[Zach Lowe]

But you're answering for Haley Steinfeld. It's just like, okay, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, yeah, back then it was more simple questions, like, you have such beautiful hair, but your hair is different in the movie. Why is it different? That's an actual Question Bobby Waggat answered.

[Zach Lowe]

Is it hard to kiss someone you're not married to?

[Bill Simmons]

Right, right. So it's a lot of stuff like that. But Mimi Rogers said, yeah, I cut. When my hair's shorter, it gets fluffier. But Ridley wanted me to put these little blonde highlights in it so my hair's a little lighter because so much of what we filmed that night was in the dark and dark, like shadows, all this stuff. And he wanted the light to hit the highlights of my hair. And it's like, Ridley Scott, you're the fudgeing man.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Even this movie, that's a pretty average plot for a late 80s movie. And he's just like, I'm making a Picasso out of this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. He obviously wanted to make something that paid tribute to 40s and 50s noir movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But also brings like his very modern, very commercial sensibility. A lot of people and I have talked about how, you know, you watch a release Scott movie and if you close your eyes sometimes you think it's a Tony Scott movie. I wonder whether or not, you know, we can have the like in the director, what ifs, casting, what if stuff. Like we can talk about whether this would be a cooler Tony Scott movie that are way more action.

[Bill Simmons]

We have three more action scenes.

[Zach Lowe]

But Ridley like is also really, really good at like locations. So like picking a place to set action that just feels like the apartment, the Guggenheim, the nightclub. Like. Yeah, he's just fantastic at like being.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Behringer walking the streets.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's. And as usual in New York movies, nobody's on the street. There's not a single hobo, anything. Just, just wet streets with sunlight streaming off. Yeah. There's nobody, Nobody's gonna stab you. He was in, I think it was like the third or fourth premier magazine ever. I'm going to show it on camera because we're now a video podcast where. Yeah, check him out. Like now he, he looks like Logan Roy now, but back then younger. But he wrote this piece about why he wanted to make this movie. And he was coming off the duelist movie that you and Sean. We might have to rewatchables that one at some point. Sure. Blade Runner, he did Legend. He, he, he felt like Alien. Alien. He felt like he was becoming pigeonholed as this kind of like grand idea, you know, sci fi, alien, whatever. And he really just, he said Someone to Watch Over Me was to be a change of pace for me. It said in present day New York. And it deals with the lives and relationships of contemporary Characters. And then he did all this research, which I thought was funny, where he really wanted to study Queens, how cops interacted. I was just thinking how funny that would have been in like 1986. You had this like this Ridley Scott.

[Zach Lowe]

Showing up and it's just like, hey.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I just watch you guys interact in this bowling alley? What happens at the pub?

[Zach Lowe]

It is pretty crazy. He makes these two films that are essentially like genre defining for the, the decades to come for Blade Runner and Alien. And you would think that like he would pretty much be in what we would consider like almost like a Kubrick zone in terms of like every four years I'm gonna make a mind altering masterpiece. But he just really likes working and he really likes. He still does. I mean it's a lot of Soderbergh knocking out two movies a year practically. So this is kind of like an interesting. It's funny to see him come almost full circle now where he'll just make, you know, the House of Gucci or something like that. Because he's interested in this mystery in the heart of like the high fashion world. This is clearly just something that, that piqued his interest. And also like I think you said like he just wanted to shoot a nighttime New York movie, that he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Interested in this high high society life and somebody going between these two worlds. And he was like. He said this is another quote he had. I wanted to create that dilemma in the central character's mind by giving me a very strong home life and a very strong wife. I wanted his attraction to Claire to be more than sexual. I wanted to be cerebral about everything. It's a choice between women. So the casting was important. But like the key scene in this movie that says it's not. He's just not thinking about fucking Mimi Rogers when his wife is in the bathroom and she's swearing. And he's like, why do you have to swear?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And she's.

[Bill Simmons]

And you're like, oh man, Mimi's got you. You, you, you love a taste of the classy lady.

[Zach Lowe]

Brock. Ellie's like, I've been swearing for 16 years.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What the. Why are you bringing this up now? Face?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like. He's like, that's what I mean. Baringer. Big Chill Eddie and the Cruisers. I'm going to look in the camera for this one. Fuck you again, Tubi. Because Eddie and the Cruisers, you assholes. We do your movies then you put them on the main screen and you won't give us Eddie and the Cruisers and kiss the Death off Platoon. Someone to Watch over Me. And then has this Shoot to kill, betrayed, last Rs. Major League is kind of the last. And then he kind of moves into some different territory, but it never 100 happens. And yet I feel like he had something. We talked about it during the Big Chill podcast. He had some sort of leading man thing that I, I just don't understand why he wasn't Clooney Costner. It just felt like that should have been his career for 10 years.

[Zach Lowe]

A couple of more Westerns. Like he has like a really great westerns face. And I feel like he needed like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like he does tombstone in 1985. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Something like he needed some kind of like, go play Wyatt Earp man. Or you know, and I, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

That he could, he had been untouchables guy instead of Costner. I feel like there's parts.

[Zach Lowe]

No, because you look at Tom Behringer and you see, oh, you see the kind of guy who would be like, you know, maybe I'm gonna leave my wife. Costner never would do that. Costner is this angelic kind of like, I'm entirely dedicated to Amy Madigan or Patricia Clarkson or whoever he's with in the movie. Tom Behringer is kind of like, whoa, is that guy still at the bar? Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

You going home?

[Bill Simmons]

Like a tiny dark side. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Zach Lowe]

I, and then I think maybe like, I think he's like stuck in between. Right. Because he's like a got movie star charisma, but he's got kind of a character actor's look, so he can't really, he can't really be Richard Gere, for instance. Right, right. It's probably closer to like Sam Shepard.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, probably almost more like Don Johnson, like Sonny Crockett, like those kind of.

[Zach Lowe]

Don Johnson's a movie star. Like, I mean like, his, like, his demeanor is like really like movie star.

[Bill Simmons]

But in Big Chill, he plays like Sam the Magnum PI Guy.

[Zach Lowe]

Supposed to be Tom Selleck or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I liked him. I thought he was really good at editing the Cruisers too. Shoot to Kill. Really weird movie. It was sold as Poitier's like, like kind of comeback, mainstream comeback movie. It's actually a good one. That's another like, classic. You think we ever do? Oh, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I have, I, I, I think Platoon's rewatchable.

[Zach Lowe]

I do too.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not a fun hang.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm asking you. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't you think?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, but he's extraordinary in Platoon.

[Bill Simmons]

He's extraordinary. He's great. And by the way, Charlie Sheen's really good in it and so is Defoe.

[Zach Lowe]

It's really cool that Ridley Scott got to like watch an earlier version of Platoon because he was thinking about casting Barringer. He had been inspired by the Big Chill. Cause he liked like his tough guy look in that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

But saw him in, in Platoon and was like, holy shit, I better jump on this while I can.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he. He said that was the reason because he saw some rough cut of Platoon and became fascinated by. By Behringer. I don't know. This era is just so weird from a movie standpoint because there's so many of them that we love and there's so many of them that are flawed. And then there's so many stars from the 80s that I'm just like, why wasn't their career better? But maybe it was just less movies, there's less prestige tv. Yeah, but Behringer is one of those. I felt like that was one level higher.

[Zach Lowe]

That is a good point. Is that I probably for. In our head we're like, well, Behringer, why didn't you just make a Taylor Sheridan show? But there weren't Taylor Sheridan shows, you know, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

Behringer would be basically going up against the same 10 stars for these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But he would not want to go down and play Sam Malone. Like, you know, he's. He's not going to go back down to television once you're in the movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Back then, what was the one he made? Was it the substitute?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he's making like B movies. By the, by the way, when he.

[Bill Simmons]

Became a B movie guy, I gotta say, I really, really enjoyed that Behringer era.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I like Sniper a lot. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Sniper's a good one. And then I remember it started to turn on him and maybe he led a hard life, but I remember I saw Sliver in the theater with Joe House in Boston. We were like, we're Sharon Stone season tickets at that point. And he's in that. And he just looked. It looked like he had aged 20 years from someone to Watch Over Me. And that movie came out I think six years after. And it was like, wow, Barringer.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened to this guy? But he might have led a semi hard life. He had a two episode Cheers run too.

[Zach Lowe]

Did he?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

When?

[Bill Simmons]

1993. The last year? Yeah. So he ends up. It's basically by the time we get to the 90s, all the substitutes, 1996. So just couldn't keep it going.

[Zach Lowe]

But I was like, perfectly cast for this movie. Because if you put someone prettier, if you put gear in this role, if you put gear into someone to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

Over me, it's not a realistic.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, you're just like, yeah, these women should be throwing themselves at this guy Behringer. It's like this guy hit the lottery. He has the best wife and queens.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But he somehow has, like, drawn the eye of Mimi Rogers character, who's in this vulnerable state because Joey fucking Lanza is running after.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Lorraine.

[Zach Lowe]

Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Lorraine Bracco first movie. She's phenomenal. And then Scott said this was the hardest part to cast, that. We have a couple casting what ifs with that, too. It's so funny to watch this now, knowing she's going to be Karen in three years. Karen. That was all the money we had. But they were gonna find it.

[Zach Lowe]

She gets a little there. We're gonna find it in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I did some Braco research. Braco.

[Zach Lowe]

Braco.

[Bill Simmons]

I did some Braco research, and I didn't realize she was a model. Like, they kind of ugly her up in this movie. They give her, like, the worst possible hairdo and. But then they make her look. Finally. She looks really good in that. In that restaurant scene when she confronts Behringer's character. But they. They definitely no makeup. She's just looking like super Queens housewifey. But I didn't realize she had this whole modeling career. And then Goodfellas takes off, and then she's in our lives through Goodfellows in the Sopranos, like, forever.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And this is like an afterthought movie for her.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. But it's. It's a great. It's a great debut. It's a great rookie season for her.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Apart that, in the wrong hands, might have not been well, because, like, throughout.

[Zach Lowe]

The film, you're just kind of like, Ellie has such a great charm and energy, and she's, like, wearing a hooded sweatshirt with a sweater over it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Coming in with brown grocery bags and stuff and kind of pinching his butt and making everything, like, kind of work. And I think. I think that it'd be very easy for that to be like, oh, man, drop the wife. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's go.

[Zach Lowe]

You know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, let's talk Mimi. There's a lot of Mimi stuff going on during this movie because she's met Tom Cruise, who's in Legend, and I think. I think they're married when the movie comes out. I'm not sure if they were married when they were making It. But I'm just gonna do this now because I think she's one of the most fascinating deep dive random actresses you're gonna find. Graduated from high school at age 14. Oh, wow.

[Zach Lowe]

We're doing the whole biography.

[Bill Simmons]

Screen tested for Body Heat, lost to Kathleen Turner. Her first husband, Jim Rogers, was a Church of Scientology counselor. She is such a good poker player that she's on the board of directors for the World Poker Tour. She dated Emilio Estevez, who then was the best man in her wedding with Tom Cruise. She quietly quit Scientology in the 90s. She's a member of Mensa. She did Playboy magazine in 1993. For some reason, she said in the piece about her. Her ex husband at that point, Tom Cruise, at least for that period of time, it looked as though marriage wouldn't fit into his overall spiritual need. And he thought he had to be celibate to maintain the purity of his instrument. My instrument needed tuning. And then she said, I retract those comments. I've been misquoted. And then you do a little deeper. And she shared an apartment with Kirsty Alley.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They were first working out. There's a lot going on here. Cr. Like, a lot. And I sent you that Bobby Wagon interview. And Bobby asks Mimi about Tom Cruise. And like, so you were married to Tom Cruise and Mimi, like, immediately. And this is. They were married for two more years after the interview. Mimi immediately, it's like, hey, we're not.

[Zach Lowe]

Going to talk about.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird. And she's like, do you think you'll ever be in a movie with Tom? And Mimi's like, yeah, maybe just frozen smile. And it's like, man, this is a weird relationship. But that's kind of what she became known for. I feel like there was more there.

[Zach Lowe]

More there from Mimi Rogers's career or.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, just. And then there's. There's another casting what if where she lost Basic Instinct to Sharon Stone.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. What. What. Why didn't it happen for her?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. I mean, she. She works a lot. I think that she obviously has a lot of other interests outside of just acting and just doing the mo Star thing. Maybe she's more private after the Tom Cruise thing. Yeah, she became a little bit more. More walled off.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought that would be my guess.

[Zach Lowe]

She had a cool movie. I can't remember last time I saw it, but.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rapture.

[Zach Lowe]

I was gonna say the Rapture. Michael Tolkien. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie was awesome.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it's completely up. I don't know if I'd ever watched it again. But I remember she got like a.

[Zach Lowe]

Lot of like awards buzz around that I remember, but kind of. Yeah, I feel like she's. She's had like a very decent career, but definitely could have been like, like she could have been Susan Sarandon and Bullder or something like that. Like, there were definitely roles out there that she could have been a Thelma Louise baby.

[Bill Simmons]

Like she was a good talk show guest too. She kind of go through the circuit. She's in this. It got really weird for her by the mid-90s. She's in this masseuse movie with Coughlin from Cocktail, Brian Brown, and he's just massaging her. She's naked like half the movie.

[Zach Lowe]

It's like, it's like Cocktail, but it's for masseuses.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying Coughlin's in it.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like a weird massage movie and.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

What's it called?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Massage Movie. Craig. Craig will find it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Craig, look up Massage Movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Look up Mimi Rogers.

[C]

I was looking at Massage Movie last night actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on, I'm going to. I'm going to find this weird massage movie. So I'm going to say it was mid-90s.

[C]

It's a TV movie, I believe it's called Full Body Massage.

[Bill Simmons]

Wasn't a TV movie because she's naked in it.

[C]

It says TV movie. Mimi, Roger's, Brian Brown.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe it was for like Showtime.

[Zach Lowe]

Full Body Massage.

[Bill Simmons]

Full Body Massage, literally the name of the movie. A successful but world weary art dealer finds out that our usual usual masseur has sent a substitute for a weekly massage at her home. They find out that they're both mutually attracted and annoy one another a great deal. Director, Nicholas Roeg.

[Zach Lowe]

Is this a Skinemax movie?

[Bill Simmons]

NICHOLAS Roeg, director. You're a guy.

[Zach Lowe]

But why is it called Full Body Massage?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm. Listen, I'm just a messenger, okay?

[Zach Lowe]

This stuff's just out there.

[Bill Simmons]

Just gotta, gotta find it. But for what she's trying to do in this movie, I think she's fantastic.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, she's great. She has to be like you said, she has to be the princess that needs saving.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, who's this person now? Because you have to be. There's a difference between, oh, she's a rich lady. And the way they do this character.

[Zach Lowe]

Is just a chastine.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one. It's beyond rich. She is in a world that she only Deals with a few people. She has conversations with the most dressed up. Like, that party scene is so key in the beginning. Everyone's dressed up. The conversations they have, it's almost like another language. And she just moves in these circles. It's like the limo driver's right there. I go from here to here. I need to get you a tie. She walks into the store. Everybody knows who she is. Like, it's just. And she pulls it off. Like, there's an. There's an elegance to it.

[Zach Lowe]

And then, like, when she's. She's effectively vulnerable. So, like, when. Because you can see why she would want the sort of protection and the masculinity of the Keegan character in her life. Because, like, her. For one thing, she's got this, like, nebbish boyfriend. But for the other, like, she's finally been, like, shown the outside world. Like, outside of her penthouse, outside of, like, the limo that can attack her, that can get to her. So, like, she does a really good job grounding it.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone will watch over me. I could just tell you're a team, Bronco.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Okay. Someone to watch over me. George Gershwin. Your guy. Double G. One of the best to.

[Zach Lowe]

Ever tickle the ivories.

[Bill Simmons]

They play this song three times. Sting, to get him for the start.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the opening credits Roberta Flack heard over the end credits. Not available on Spotify or platform for some reason.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you like the Sting version or the Roberta Flack version better?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna answer that in a later category.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they run the original one midway through the movie. The Sting and Roberta Flack movie versions were new takes. They never had a soundtrack album for it. Cause it's the same song a bunch of times.

[Zach Lowe]

The opening reminds me a lot. It's like the New York version of the Lethal Weapon opening.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Night City.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I would say it's a most rewatchable scene, how they do it. But it's rare to have a song three times in the same movie titled after the movie. That also is the theme of the movie. It's like the fucking triple crown.

[Zach Lowe]

And then they say versions of the title of the movie multiple times.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna watch over you tonight.

[Zach Lowe]

Thank you for watching over me. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Congratulations. One of the great songs written by Howard Franklin Franklin. So Ridley follows Blade Runner with legends. Someone to Watch Over Me. Black Rain, which has been circled for a while. And then Thelma and Louise, which I'm not positive we've ever done.

[Zach Lowe]

Thelma.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think we've Done it.

[C]

We've never done it.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, 12.8 million made. 10.3 million. A rewatchable loser. Craig. A box office.

[Zach Lowe]

It's really hard to lose money on 12.3 million.

[Bill Simmons]

This is how you know it's a one for us. The movie lost money and Roger Ebert gave it to us.

[Zach Lowe]

Put up the image where it's like coming Monday and it's just gonna be Barringer and people are gonna be like, seriously, what the movie is these guys. I can't even reverse Google Image search this.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think what the meanest things will be, but it'll probably be a lot of. I thought we were getting Hunt for Red October and we get this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

That's my burner, my army of guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Roger Ebert two star review. I thought it was one of the better reviews I've read from him on any movie we've done. He really lays out why he doesn't. This whole thing about high concept movies. Once you master the concept, there's nothing left for the movie. Movies like this are on automatic pilot. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the script in which the hero sleeps with the wrong woman. I'm not talking here in moral terms, but in story terms. The makers of this film got so carried away with their high concept that they missed the point of the whole story. That rich broad really does have a great kitchen, though.

[Zach Lowe]

Raj.

[Bill Simmons]

Raj got a little feisty at the end.

[Zach Lowe]

Pauline Kale said Ridley Scott put so much morbid, finicky care into this silly little story that he's worried the fun out of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Late 80s. Pauline. It's kind of needed big keeping helping a Settle down juice just in general. Just pour it in the morning like green juice. Settle down, Pauline.

[Zach Lowe]

Take it with your Metamucil.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we're gonna take a break and come back and do most rewatchables. All right. Most rewatchable scene opening credits mention that Sting still had his voice in 87.

[Zach Lowe]

He did.

[Bill Simmons]

When he still hit the notes.

[Zach Lowe]

Did he lose it, you think?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

By probably mid-90s. Can't hit those notes.

[Zach Lowe]

Isn't he doing like Fields of gold in the 90s?

[Bill Simmons]

And Nate. That's. That was about it. The Fields of Gold's album, I think, was it Elton lost it. People. Those people who can live in the high, high, high areas. It's. You're not doing that when you're like 45.

[Zach Lowe]

I was never much of a Sting guy, to be completely honest.

[Bill Simmons]

I like really not a tantric sex guy. Police guy.

[Zach Lowe]

Police are good. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the police.

[Zach Lowe]

I bet you do. You've mentioned that before. And it also seems like you're kind of banned. Not in a love them pejorative way. I mean love them.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I like that. They were like six years done.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And hated each other.

[Bill Simmons]

Hated each other's guts. There was great background deep dive stuff once the Internet ran into shape. But I've. You've heard my theory that three person bands, I just feel like should be graded on a different curve because it's.

[Zach Lowe]

Just so impressive that they're making all that music.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're standing up with all the other bands and you only have three people. It'd be like if I won the NBA title with four guys on the court.

[Zach Lowe]

Tom Thibodeau is like, I'll try it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll try it.

[Zach Lowe]

Ice.

[Bill Simmons]

Most rewatchable scene, the opening cop party.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have this in Wood Stage. The best as well. I don't know what it is because Copan has this too. Some of these other ones, these cop movies set in like Jersey or New York or wherever. I just like hanging out with cops all day.

[Zach Lowe]

Party too.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe not when Karen Reed's involved, but. But for the most part seem like. Seems like a fun hang. Maybe not at three in the morning at Attleborough, but for the most part fun hangs.

[Zach Lowe]

But did you notice though that it starts in the afternoon and then it's like two in the morning and they're still at the house.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And everybody knows everybody and everybody's kind of on the verge of being inappropriate and nobody's judging anybody. And people are smoking.

[Zach Lowe]

Decent storytelling though too. Like it's like this guy's getting promoted. That's the most important thing. Like the. You know, and like he's got like this. All his friends are over. But the cake is for his promotion to getting into this new district and precinct in Manhattan.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

And it's like. Yeah. Because it's really hard to get up the ladder in this thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think we need more like New York area cop ball busting at parties just for the ringer for us? Yeah. It's like Craig, look at this dude with a big promotion. Hey, Jack Sanders running the big pick now. Look at this guy.

[Zach Lowe]

That would be good.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's. That's like basically all the dialogue.

[Zach Lowe]

Swedish HR law.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I gotta. I'll check out the sweets. But I like those cop scenes. Behringer's first day when they're walking around the Incredible Claire apartment. Next rewatchable scene. And he gets lost, but ends up in the closet. Lieutenant. Detective, I. I hope you understand how upsetting this is. Yes, ma'am, I do. And the way she handles it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're just like, whoa, this is a lady that has. Has talked down to a lot of people that has.

[Zach Lowe]

But also, like, levels of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

She's just like, this is really upsetting for me.

[Bill Simmons]

I hope. I hope you understand how upsetting this is for me. Really good stuff. All right, now we're cooking with gas because Claire has to go out. Mike has to go with her. They're going to the Guggenheim. We go tie shopping. Everyone knows her big part. Well, if you're going to be my escort, you need a new tie.

[Zach Lowe]

Perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'll take it. I. I get.

[Zach Lowe]

No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

My account.

[C]

Yes, Mr.

[Bill Simmons]

If we had more time, I'd work on the suit, too. Buys him the new tie. If I had more time, I'd work on the suit, too. Now we're getting a little flirty.

[Zach Lowe]

The tie also really brings his outf.

[Bill Simmons]

She's right.

[Zach Lowe]

It's great. The paisley ties, whatever. But, like, she puts. He puts on this new tie, and I'm like, look at this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Ellie, 16 years. Maybe learn how to buy your guy tie.

[Zach Lowe]

It's fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Make it. I'm making the case for. For Mike. As it's going. It's like, ah, Claire's got some points here.

[Zach Lowe]

There's paparazzi for some reason, I think because we just watched it in Boston. I was thinking of Heat when the tie thing is happening. Because it's like when Jeremy Piven's like, my. My daughter gave me. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, I don't care. Give me that. We also have some ball. Busted with the. I'm on duty. What kind of duty? Gigolo.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I loved Claire's friends. Fishing for info at the party. I could have watched the scene for 20 more minutes.

[Zach Lowe]

What is. What is the old one? Say, like. Don't you. He has really nice eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, who. Who have you been hiding from us? It's the most pretentious party, I think. I've personally never been to a party like that ever.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where it's like, everyone at the party is 100 rich and pretentious. And there's, like, no other people at the party and just people. This is it. This is the highlight of their month, going to this thing and hanging out with the rich people.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And it's just another example of him being, like, kind of overwhelmed by Architecture first in Claire's apartment. But he walks into the Guggenheim and he's just like. It's also awesome chase location because of the spiral hallway right in the Guggenheim. So when he goes after Venza, the.

[Bill Simmons]

Lady comes up to him and says, does shooting a gun make you hard?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yeah. I love her.

[Bill Simmons]

She's great. She's coming up later. Then Claire's in danger. Somehow Mike this up. And then he chases him out. And I like when Behringer does a. He's got that cop. That cop voice. But this whole scene is lights out. Next one I have is Ellie finds out Mike went to a party with Claire in that she bought her a tie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good brocco. Claire asked Mike on his last day to go for a drink.

[Zach Lowe]

So they go to, like, Bemelman's or someplace. Like, they go to a nice bar.

[Bill Simmons]

It's been nice having you watch over me. I bet it has. Good. I get that scene. Probably could have gone longer for me. I would have. Could have gone like 2, 3. More like a little background eclair. Like. So I went to Harvard.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I graduated as an art major.

[Zach Lowe]

The way that they kind of do isn't that they're connecting on, like a personality, experiential, soul level. It's more just like we're two people who are currently trying to escape our immediate circumstances. And it's very present tense. Like, it's not gonna work. You're not gonna move in with me. We're not going to Europe together. But, like, right now, right here, it works. And so when you think about it like that, it's kind of nice that they're not telling each other their life stories.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you have had her smoke or not smoke?

[Zach Lowe]

I could see her doing a Virginia Slim or something elegant.

[Bill Simmons]

Submitting a category. Should this character have had one cigarette?

[Zach Lowe]

I have some cigarette awards coming.

[Bill Simmons]

There is there. Could there have been an elegant smoking scene for her?

[Zach Lowe]

I think that there would have been a cigarette out of just pure tension.

[Bill Simmons]

Just like I stopped maybe in the.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On the other hand, she's too classy to smoke. I like when they're in the. When he gives her the coat. Feels like they're gonna fuck. We're in the elevator and they're just kind of like, what are we doing? She looks at each looks at him and then walks away. Just a nitpick. Now, just so I remember it, they get home at 3 in the morning, so she wants to get a drink. What time is it? I know, but is it like 11 at night?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So they're out having a drink till three in the morning. Wouldn't they be a little more drunk?

[Zach Lowe]

He starts working in the middle of the night. Doesn't he? Does he go on it feel like.

[Bill Simmons]

They'D be a little more sauced. She'd be a little more tipsy.

[Zach Lowe]

80S. They just put it away.

[Bill Simmons]

Call lady. Maybe she can carry liquor. I like the cops.

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe she's like Larry Bird. She can put a case away.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Claire and Mike. Finally, Benza gets out. Claire and Mike have some scared sex for Claire. She's. She needs somebody to watch over her. I. I'm gonna bring this up now. The Mallory Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

[Zach Lowe]

It kind of did, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Ridley was afraid to do it because if. If there was a pounding away scene maybe it's a little tougher to keep on. Keep a little mystery.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that there's definitely. There's a way to have shown, like, the way Mike has sex with both of these different women as, like, illustrator of. Of, like, his. His sort of choice he has to make.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a little bit chaste, the way it happens. It's like almost close to Top Gun. Maverick. Laughing.

[Bill Simmons]

You know. Right.

[Zach Lowe]

But I. I think Mallory probably would have turned. Turned the temperature up a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Next scene, Ellie finds out at. At lunch about Mike's cheating. Love this incredible Braco. Braco. Why do I keep saying Braco Bracco's cheating?

[Zach Lowe]

It's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Twin towers in the background.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I behave like the kind of lady you apparently provide. A lady. You come back. You come back for me.

[Zach Lowe]

Not for Tommy, not for your mother.

[Bill Simmons]

Not for your goddamn job. You come back for me.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm still sorry. L. I love you. I do. And you are a lady. And I respect you very much.

[Zach Lowe]

Don't talk to me. Respect.

[Bill Simmons]

You come back. You come back for me.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a good line.

[Bill Simmons]

Not for your goddamn job. You come back for me. Okay. Then she punches him.

[Zach Lowe]

Terrible sound effect for the punch.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's beyond a What stage? The worst. I know.

[Zach Lowe]

I just wanted to bring it up as soon as you said it.

[Bill Simmons]

Ridley's like, can you put, like, four highlights in Mimi's hair? Because I want to make the light shine off it. And I got. Can you wet the street again?

[Zach Lowe]

But when Lorraine Bronco punches Tom Behringer it sounds like making a second.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a second after the punch. Let me watch over you Tonight is another one. Tom's been kicked out of that. Mike's Been kicked out of the house. He shows up anyway, even though TJ Is there. And then we get the whole. I love the switching. The runner. Yeah, that's some Bill and CR shit right there. Like scoping out the jogger. How he's running at 7:00, buying the exact same outfit, putting the hood over it. Then TJ Gets shot. We get a little action scene.

[Zach Lowe]

And then we get the hall of Mirrors action too. Within the apartment.

[Bill Simmons]

You knew that was going to come into play when we saw it in the beginning. It's like these Mariners are coming back. And then I got Mike shows up at the Queen's party that she's throwing. Someone Will Watch Over Me playing again. And she does like the. Oh, that's kind of my song with my weird cop that stayed with us. It wouldn't work out. Clear. How long are you going away for? To forget about you. I feel like that line, that exchange has been in like 40 movies. Gets me every time. Any others for rewatchables?

[Zach Lowe]

I feel like it's. We've got like 40 some minutes and you just haven't said Joey Lanza yet.

[Bill Simmons]

He's coming up.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay, I have Venza. Joey Venza. I don't know why I wrote down Lanza. Joey Venza with Keegan's family at the end is a pretty amazing. It's ridiculous, but it's just an incredible, ridiculously compelling program. Yeah. And I also have the Studio 54 style club, which they shot at the beginning. At the beginning, yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

But my number one is. God, I think it's when. When Ellie finds out about Claire. Honestly, it's such a great scene I.

[Bill Simmons]

Have when they go to the Guggenheim. What's the most 1987 thing about this movie? I had Sting doing your theme song or a club blaring Steve Winwood. I love Steve Winwood. I would never listen to Steve Wynwood again for any reason.

[Zach Lowe]

I just pointed out it is also like a perfect like music to be listening to in 1987. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It was either that. That him and Peter Gabriel in the finals for what made sense there. What stage the best. I have a bunch of small stuff. What do you have?

[Zach Lowe]

I have a bunch of small stuff too. I really just for the top note is people reacting to adultery in an adult way. So, like, you know, it's a little bit dated personal experience here. No, but just like I think that the crisis and like Lorraine Braco is not just like, you're out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, it's not like our marriage is Over. She's kind of, like, working with it and working through it. I kind of liked it. Like, just watching them, you know, have, like, an adult reaction to it.

[Bill Simmons]

Now it would be like, here's my essay for the LA Times about when my husband cheated on me and his name was Mike.

[Zach Lowe]

Here's When I entered a polycule. I really like the kid Tommy.

[Bill Simmons]

Tommy was an excellent little kid.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He could have been super annoying.

[Zach Lowe]

Perfect 1987 kid with a little cyclist hat. And it's just like, lay back, Mac. I got my skateboard. He's like Bart Simpson.

[Bill Simmons]

He easily could have gone right into being Josh Baskin's best friend. And Big and Ben and nine other 80s movies.

[Zach Lowe]

And number one, this is an age of the worst that's actually aged the best. And it's one of the little details of this movie that makes it worth completely re. Watching. One of the other cops is this guy named Kuntz.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And when he. When Keegan finds out that his family has been taken hostage by Venza, it re. It's revealed that Kuntz just has a little stud earring. And I really, really thought for a second about coming in today with a study, just.

[Bill Simmons]

Just sneaking it in.

[Zach Lowe]

But just, like, I want. I feel like guys should just start, like, yeah, check it out. I'm not having a midlife crisis at all.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one. I have a couple small ones. These are just personal preferences. Cop daughters in a movie who then marry a cop.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Ellie. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like that one. They kind of know the drill.

[Zach Lowe]

My dad was a cop. I married a cop.

[Bill Simmons]

I've seen some adultery in my day. Cops calling other cops wives. The old lady.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When do we stop doing this?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. I don't think anybody would appreciate it anymore. Like, Craig, how's your old lady?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Craig, you want to film that video later? You got to see the old lady.

[C]

Yeah. Say that to Liz the next time she's in the office.

[Bill Simmons]

She'll love that. The old lady. I think. When do you think it went away? Like, early 2000s.

[Zach Lowe]

I think it went away, like, in the. In the 80s. Like, I think this is the last gasp.

[Bill Simmons]

This was the last old lady.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't remember anyone ever referring to. To even. Even my mother is, how's your old lady doing?

[Bill Simmons]

It's offensive. It's the rare thing that's offensive to all parties. It's offensive to the person you're saying it to. It's offensive to the lady. Everyone loses. I mentioned this earlier, but all the. All the Lorraine Bracco scenes. Knowing Goodfellas is coming, it just makes me laugh. Two way mirrors.

[Zach Lowe]

Yep. For the. For the purp.

[Bill Simmons]

For any cop scene. For the perp id. I just have always enjoyed them and might put one in my house. I'm kidding. I don't know if you picked this up, but it's a great woods age. The best. Mike's wearing this old school 80s jet sweatshirt in the kitchen. And it's a sweatshirt that had a collar. And they only made these for a couple years. I used to have the Pats one, but I lost it.

[Zach Lowe]

Perfect. That he's a Jets fan.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's. It's actually New York Stack Exchange. Right. Cast they keep reps of cracking down on. They should have had, like them go to a Jets game that could have fit in this. But. But it's a really nice sweatshirt. I want to point that out. A New York guy pronouncing the word idea as ider. That's a pretty good idea. Cla Behinger's apartment you mentioned. And then cops hanging out with their families.

[Zach Lowe]

And I know you. I know you picked up on this.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it a good idea?

[Zach Lowe]

No. It's Scotty Baringer's bachelor friend who he moves in with his apartment. He's got the bunk beds and. Yeah, check out the bathroom. Real nice.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

But then with the end, he's just like, we're gonna have to figure out the bedroom because. What does he say? Like, Renee is a moaner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. It's a screamer. That had a check for like two minutes. Great shot. Gordo Award. Would you have.

[Zach Lowe]

I love this shot of Behringer on the New York 80s subway standing up.

[Bill Simmons]

I had the same thing. I like the shot of him on the subway and the light hand. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Ridley.

[Zach Lowe]

Just beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably spent two days storyboarding that and doing it and then gets the punch completely wrong. Come on, Ridley. Dennis. Benihana Award. Scene stealing location. The New York City apartment. The Guggenheim.

[Zach Lowe]

Guggenheim's really high up there.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award. Would you go Steve Winwood or Roberta Flack at the end?

[Zach Lowe]

I'd go Roberta.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

A category we rarely give to get to give out the Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate. Claire's apartment, which I was always like. I. When I was doing the research for the movie, I was like, I can't wait to find out where they filmed this in this apartment. And sadly found out that it was at Burbank Studios that they made the apartment from scratch.

[Zach Lowe]

And it's Upper east side is supposed to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Supposed to be.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. I mean I guess then Guggenheim gets best real estate, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I guess. They did a great job creating a fake New York City apartment though.

[Zach Lowe]

I love the nightclub which is shot in the Queen Mary, but it. It's supposed to be a New York nightclub.

[Bill Simmons]

The Chess Rockwell and Brock Leonard's the word for best character name. Wynn Hawkings is the guy who gets killed in the beginning.

[Zach Lowe]

Talk about the Wynn Hawkings killing. Yeah, Venza kind of goes zero to 60 there on him.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it Benza or Venza?

[Zach Lowe]

Venza. Joey Venza.

[Bill Simmons]

Joey. I thought it was Benza.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I thought it was.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you're right. So yeah, yeah, he goes from zero to 60 pretty fast. You probably noticed that the host of the party has been stabbed to death. If you're there wondering where he's.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, Venza doesn't seem to think that he. He's got a real like invincibility armor to him where he's just like, yeah, the nobody is going to ever catch me for cold blooded first degree murder in a public place. And also intimidating witnesses and taking cops, families, hostages.

[Bill Simmons]

And also I showed up at this party and they're like, you're not allowed in Mr. Venza. And he's like okay and goes in anyway. WI Hawkins not kind of maybe needed one more scene with Win to understand what his business interests were.

[Zach Lowe]

So.

[Bill Simmons]

And then also was he in the mafia?

[Zach Lowe]

Was he cla's mafia?

[Bill Simmons]

Jason? Yeah. Did cla seemed like she's got that doofus guy. She was dating Neil, but it seems like she and Wyn had something unexplored. Well, we have some smoking subcategories CR the Sean Penn I brought my own pack award for excellence in on screen smoking.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. This goes to Joey Venza smoking while holding a 350sec magnum to a child's head and then angrily throwing the cigarette.

[Bill Simmons]

So the first time we did the Fugitive with Greenwald.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We did this whole thing about Arturis, whatever his name is, who played the one armed man and the Fugitive and Andreas Catzouls. Yeah. And how he was such a chains. He was like this. There's in the research a beloved guy on sets, but was an absolute chain smoker. And the scene would end and he would light it up and then he died of lung cancer.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But yeah, he's clearly like, yo, is it cool if I smoke in this scene?

[Zach Lowe]

And they're like actually think for a second how many hands it takes to take out a cigarette from a pack and light it, but also restrain a child and hold a gun to his head. So how many hands? Like we're going to. I mean, like, it's just amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

He probably asked the kid to hold the gun on himself. And then we have the Edie Falcon Copley in award for the character that got three times hotter by smoking. Yeah. I thought of you. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

When she. When he takes.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of dangling from the side. What do you have? You have a flex category. Did we already do it?

[Zach Lowe]

I had the Vincent Chase award for. Are we sure this character is actually good at this job before the New York Police Department.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

It's just like, we know who killed Wyn Hawkins. We know exactly what he looks like and what he's doing, but we just kind of got to let him kind of work it out.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody read him his rights. When we. We found Venza, we can't protect Claire. She almost gets killed in the bathroom.

[Zach Lowe]

But isn't that a crime in and of itself if Claire's like, joey Venza just beat the shit out of me in a bathroom that also smears lipstick? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Seems like it would be something. Something that leads to the Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film, which is the last 10 minutes. Which includes decisions like, Joey gets a hold of Mike at a queen's party.

[Zach Lowe]

Uhuh.

[Bill Simmons]

Just kind of knows he's there. Figured you'd be there at Claire's party. You did? Like, they. Like, what would you have?

[Zach Lowe]

Like the entire world bugged? Like, how are you doing this?

[Bill Simmons]

What's his strategy?

[Zach Lowe]

So he's gonna have Claire come kill Claire and then he's gonna walk out? I don't know. I really don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

What's. What's Mike's strategy? I'm going to bring Claire. Maybe she'll just get shot, but I'll get my family back. It's one way to get Adam.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, there's. There's Chekhov's gun from earlier in the movie where they're like, where's the. Where's the gun? And he's like, oh, it's in the closet. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's just going to trade the female characters and throw in his son as a first round draft pick. This is like an NFL draft trade. Like the Falcons moving up for Pierce. I do like that the wife shoots Joey.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I do think it's a pretty funny tough beat for Claire. But this is the reason that this movie is not considered a classic, because the last 10 minutes just. I. But this is an 80s thing. Sometimes they just didn't know how to end movies and they just made the movie anyway. Like, what are we gonna do about the ending? I don't know.

[Zach Lowe]

It's just a kidnap. Everybody. I will say it's. I had it in. Maybe what's age the worst. But we just did have a decade where, like, the bad guys in movies were psychos. And now we try to ascribe all this, like, meaning and, like, motivation to, like, why bad guys and shows and movies do things like, why is he doing this? Back then it was just like the guys in Commando were just psychos.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, Right. This guy's just bloodthirsty maniac. What stage the worst? Claire having a painting of herself. Yeah. It's a rich person move. I've never understood it. It's like, what's that? Oh, it's. I had this artist come do a portrait of me.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oil painting of me.

[Zach Lowe]

It's more like 19th century English people did that, but I don't know why.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's get rid of that. The fake punch sound we talked about. And then there's that one scene when Mike's in the hospital and Orbach who's like, doesn't realize he's going to be in Crimes of Misdemeanors in a much better movie in two years. So he's really got to go for the Oscar. And he's like, is it love, Mike? I hope so.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I wanted to be worth it for your sake. But he's really trying to act incredible.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, workplace like, changes over the decades is like, this captain is like, so tell me a little bit about this relationship you got going on.

[Bill Simmons]

More than just sex or what else do you have for one stage?

[Zach Lowe]

I just. I just had to focus on this. The sound effect. I don't know why Ridley Scott can't just go in and fix that as a digital. Like, for to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Could to be. Give him like $5,000.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a bad idea. Ruffalo Hannah Rubenak Partridge over acting word Venza.

[Zach Lowe]

Or also Venza when he's like, I give the order.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't take orders. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Or when Venza first gets Mimi Rogers in the bathroom at the party and he. The first thing he says to her is like, don't say a word. Screaming at the top of his lungs.

[Bill Simmons]

That's another like, what's age the worst? How does he get in that party? How does he sneak into the bathroom with nobody noticing him? He's like a wanted fugitive.

[Zach Lowe]

He also always seems to have a tux.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Tux killer. That would have been a better idea. Oh, this will be good. The cr. Thanks. Luke Wilson could have been hot. Harrison Ford Hottest take award. Yeah, I have a good one. What do you have?

[Zach Lowe]

I think Venza's best thing that ever happened to Mike and Ellie. I think that his entrance into Claire's life while dangerous and costing Wyn Hawkings his life. It just starts this snowball going downhill where Mike and Ellie they were probably head towards a life of recrimination, financial stress, all this stuff. Struggling to make ends meet. Then this crazy tuxedo killer comes into the world and it shows them what's important and it probably reinvigorates their sex life.

[Bill Simmons]

Or you could say they got divorced in 12 months. It's one of the two. Yeah. That is. It did light a little fire on them. They'll probably speak finally of them. I'm going bigger and grander. I think this had all the tools. Much like Craig's guy Ted McMillan said. All the tools to be the greatest erotic thriller of all time.

[Zach Lowe]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I even think it's a better blueprint than Fatal Attraction.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's. It's a model that I think then got stolen by a bunch of skin and Max movies where a cop protecting a social life. And they start having. But then they would actually have the sex. But you have. You could have a sex scene in the beginning with when she's like, look at my ass, my ass is dropping. It's like, let's go at it there we have. Maybe.

[Zach Lowe]

You got so excited to diagram the different places we could have humping in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

We get. We get a solo. Solo scene with Claire. The unrequited sex thing. Yeah. She's in the bath.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Bill, what the fuck?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just going through radic thriller playbook.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. So Claire rubs one out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Neil comes over. He hears the moaning. We see that. Right. We have a couple scenes with. With Claire and Mike. Uhhuh. It's bang nails out.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe. Maybe one with Ellie where he's not quite. He has to stop there.

[Zach Lowe]

Like he can't get it up maybe. Or like.

[Bill Simmons]

And then some makeup sex at. Or maybe this is eight sex scenes they could add.

[Zach Lowe]

There is also the like he could have brought home like an expensive dress and dressed Ellie like Claire. Oh, that would have. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You've never bought me a dress like this, Michael. Or nightcap. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And Steve Winwood.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig. Am I crazy or is this have all the ingredients.

[C]

I like I like you breaking down erotic thriller play. Looks like Todd McShay and also bursting.

[Bill Simmons]

Into tears like my bench. I think this could have been.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyway, we missed out on that casting what ifs. Mimi tested for both parts.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't get the Braco part. She wanted.

[Zach Lowe]

She wanted more.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't get the Bronco part. Didn't hear from them for a little bit. They brought her back for Claire and she did this whole thing about how she knew it was just for Claire. She tried to dress middle on the road when she was auditioning for Ridley because she was doing both parts. But for Claire the second time, got this really nice dress. Really tried to socialize herself up and kind of inhabit the character. So she got it. But she also did a screen test with Barringer but they had already screen test together because they both went out for Body Heat. Neither of them got it.

[Zach Lowe]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So good to see you again. Here's the big one though. Sharon Stone screen tested for Claire and then it went to Mimi. And then four years later, flip, she gets base against the Mimi dozen.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm sure the Sharon Stones probably got the right end of that deal.

[Bill Simmons]

Sharon Stone as Claire is a completely different movie because I just don't think he's. I don't think he's going back.

[Zach Lowe]

He's never Queen back.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not going back. Like you saw what she did in Basic Instinct with the cop. Like that guy's 20 minutes. He's doing cocaine and sitting. Smoking cigs and killing people.

[Zach Lowe]

I am never going back is the thing about me.

[Bill Simmons]

So I think that probably worked out correctly.

[Zach Lowe]

I would just throw. I just. I was trying to get like. I was trying to figure out whether Sarandon would have worked for Claire.

[Bill Simmons]

I was just thinking about the. The erratic thriller. Oh, man, we really took this to the next level. Susan Sarandon. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Never mind. Who cares.

[Bill Simmons]

For Claire.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I don't think she worked. She would work as Ellie. I think you need somebody more queensy than.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Gina Davis too young?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, Gina Davis or Melanie Griffith might have worked as. As Ellie.

[Bill Simmons]

Now Melanie Griffith. You could always feel the. The damage from the past and all of her parts.

[Zach Lowe]

No, I mean. Okay. Even in like some. I guess something while she's. She's damaged. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Kidman in like 95 would have been interesting. No, I'm saying like eight years later.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Oh, okay. Like post days of Thor.

[Bill Simmons]

I think your Chastain one is really good.

[Zach Lowe]

Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's like Chastain, like maybe early mid-2010s. Yeah. That's a really good one. Demi Moore, like maybe 93, 94 disclosure range.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought Mimi was really good. Let's. Let's take another break to regroup.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you just keep thinking of different things?

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Best. That guy award. Does Andreas Katsulas qualify anymore? He does, right? He's. I mean, he's just the one AR man from the future.

[Zach Lowe]

That guy. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Only we know he's Andreas Kulas.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then so he wins.

[Zach Lowe]

The other one would be Mark Moses for me.

[Bill Simmons]

So I have Tony de Bedetto as tj, who also played Johnny Fingers and Marked for Death with Steven Seagal.

[Zach Lowe]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's been in two movies. He's one of those guys. But, yeah, Dan Waiter's a word.

[Zach Lowe]

I have Orbach. Orbach.

[Bill Simmons]

Tj Possibility. The cop buddy who lets Mike move in. Scotty Rich, cocky murder guy. Win Hawkins.

[Zach Lowe]

Orbach, I think Orbach, like you said, he's, like, really trying to go for it in that scene where he's just like, mike, what is.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this love? Can I make the case for the shooting someone make you hard, lady?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, you can.

[Bill Simmons]

She's in the movie for like a minute and a half and is great.

[Zach Lowe]

It's great when she shows up again and he's just like, oh, Jesus Christ.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that. God. I was gonna do this later for an answer, bros, but does shooting someone make you hard?

[Zach Lowe]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I was afraid to Google it. I didn't want to get a virus.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, you've already got Craig Googling full body masseuse.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I don't know.

[C]

It might. Isn't the line in super bad? Or he's like, having a gun is like having a second cock.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director city. How about Dennis Franz as tj? Sure. Let's dial it up a notch. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Could we find a spot for Caruso in this movie? Could Caruso have been Scotty?

[Bill Simmons]

Could Crusoe have been Mike?

[Zach Lowe]

A little early, right? But definitely, like, in. In the. The vein of the stuff that he's good at.

[Bill Simmons]

He kills Venza at the end. He's like, stuff a legends. Yeah. We could have wear Caruso in this. Yeah. I don't know. Like, he was in. Well, he was in King of New York. That was. That was 88. That was like 90.

[Zach Lowe]

90. Yeah, it's 90. I just did. Yeah, it's 90.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig has a flex category choice. Can't wait for this. What is it, Craig?

[C]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna come up with a new one, and it's the weirdest attempt at a human intimate moment. When Tom Behringer, I'm gonna give him a D minus for his hair pulling performance of Mimi Rogers and that weird sex moment he had. It's like he's checking to see if.

[Bill Simmons]

She'S wearing a wig or a wire.

[C]

Ripping out the side of her hair. It's bizarre.

[Bill Simmons]

So weirdest. Seductive. I'm trying to think what that category would be. It's kind of like seductive seductive.

[Zach Lowe]

Michael Douglas dancing with Roxy.

[Bill Simmons]

For actually our girl Roxy could have been.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

Anybody in this?

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe like a friend of Ellie's?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, half ass Internet research. You mentioned the Queen Mary thing. I kind of did all my research. I had a lot of Mimi Rogers research. I don't really have any extra stuff. Apex Mountain, Behringer. I think it's Platoon.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, this is 87. Like it's platoon. So you're saying like, like this 12 month period?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, you're right. Mimi Rogers, she's the star of this movie that they're pushing the hell out of it. And she's married to Tom Cruise. I feel like it probably is. You know, the great Bobby Wagon asked her why they hadn't worked together yet. And I was thinking she could have easily been the Gina Gershon role in A Cocktail. They wanted to work together. Yeah, but she wasn't Bracco. No, we said it was Goodfellas. Yes. Not Sopranos.

[Zach Lowe]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Arturis. Fugitive. Ridley Scott. Gladiator.

[Zach Lowe]

It's definitely not this.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely not this.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone to Watch Over Me renditions in a movie.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, when you have three of them, I think it's gotta be apex Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

Counter Mr. Holland's opus. Rowena sings Someone to Watch Over Me. And Richard Dreyfus wife realizes that maybe something's going on there and she has that great performance. So that might be. That's. I mean, you have three of them in this, but that's probably a more famous movie. I would say probably that movie. Queens. Movies in Queens. What are the competitions?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I mean, like a lot of Goodfellas takes place in Queens.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, but do people think of Goodfellas as a Queens movie?

[Zach Lowe]

Queens Boulevard. It's Jason's.

[Bill Simmons]

I was just reading the. I just caught up on the Seth Rogen vs. Doug Allen blood feud for the last 20 years that the studio reignited this week. Craig, are you familiar with this?

[C]

Yeah, they hate each other. And Seth Rogen wrote a Simpsons episode that like shits on Entourage. And they've just been going because he was going to be Turtle, right? He was supposed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, he took a shot at Entourage. And then there's a 2009 Entourage episode that starts with the characters talking about knocked up for, like, a minute. And Turtle's like, I don't understand. That guy's so ugly. How does he land Katherine Heigel? He's so ugly. They're just, like, saying how ugly is for, like, 45 seconds. So it's still going great.

[Zach Lowe]

Queens movie is coming to America.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the best Queens movie. I think you're right.

[Zach Lowe]

Apex Mountain for the Guggenheim.

[Bill Simmons]

What are the other candidates?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, just like, I guess the Guggenheim.

[Bill Simmons]

Museum just looks great.

[Zach Lowe]

Existing would probably be bigger than being in.

[Bill Simmons]

But in a movie. No, In a movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I can't remember another Guggenheim scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Actually, the only other one I had for Apex Mountain was rich, hot socialite characters. The platonic idea of what that is.

[Zach Lowe]

I just don't. I didn't remember that. Guggenheimus.

[Bill Simmons]

That's probably the Apex. Rich, rich, hot socialite characters in a movie. Really needs to go up a notch.

[Zach Lowe]

No, I think. I think talented Mr. Ripley is. Is hot socialite.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Gwyneth Paltrow's character. Marge.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah, I like that. Cruise or Hanks? Hanks, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Although it would be pretty funny if Cruz was playing Mike.

[Bill Simmons]

And instead of the sex scene, they're just laughing in bed after Claire, he spills, like, a cranberry juice on the side table, and they just laugh where.

[Zach Lowe]

He trips over Tommy's skateboard.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, tommy skating? Yeah. I go, Hanks, too. Scorsese or Spielberg is a little more interesting. Could make the case for both.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I mean, the material would lend itself probably more to Scorsese, I think, especially at this time.

[Bill Simmons]

Cocaine gets involved with Mike, I think.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Mike and Scotty have a scene where they're signed up. Bender in the bunk beds.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's on one. Scotty's on the other. Yeah, she's good.

[Zach Lowe]

She's a screamer.

[Bill Simmons]

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? It could be Wyn Hawkings. You could talk me into. You could talk me into Neil.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm gonna go with Koontz, the cop at the stud Earring.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, just randomly throw it in there. Okay. Picking nits.

[Zach Lowe]

What the Is Venza doing? Like, what.

[Bill Simmons]

What.

[Zach Lowe]

What is the plan? Is he Kaiser Soze? Like, how has he just got. He runs rough. Shot up. First of all, what. What is Venza made his money doing? Is he the mob? Is he in the mafia?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it Seems like he's one of the preeminent mafia people in New York. But also now slumming it, just trying to kill this one lady and doesn't have of other people trying to kill her.

[Zach Lowe]

Because the beginning of the movie, it's basically he is given probably dirty money to Wynn Hawkings to open this club or to do whatever he's done. And now when is buying him out, he's like, I don't want to be bought out. So he just kills Wynn. But he murders a guy in cold blood, tries to intimidate a witness, gets caught at the Guggenheim doing it again. Yeah, but gets out. Yeah, but like, why isn't he free?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, they're like, yeah, he's free. You didn't read him his rights. So now he's out. Is he out on bail or is he just out is the case.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't understand what. And there's no district attorney in New York consulting on like, any of this. Like, well, this is what we got to do here.

[Bill Simmons]

And then if he's out, why does he have to kill her?

[Zach Lowe]

And for what it's worth, as people have pointed out on the Internet, actually, like, once a witness protection takes place over a couple more than a day or something, the FBI takes you to like a secure location. She would not be like, like, I'm at my apartment going out in New York City a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, people on the Internet pointed that out. Yeah, that's pretty good. I didn't see that. That's a pretty good point.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she would.

[Zach Lowe]

She would be in a motel somewhere in like, you know, Hackensack, New Jersey, waiting for trial.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Kiss of Death.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When they take his family because he decides to go. And a movie that you won't see because it's not on fucking to be fuck you to be more picking nits. Claire would never be with Neil. Neil sucks.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I didn't really.

[Bill Simmons]

They have to establish that Neo is worth like a kajillion dollars and is like a minority owner of the New York Giants or something. I need. I need way more ammo. Yeah, I. I need way more ammo. That ne is. He just blows. There's nothing cool.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, I have to travel for work. It's like your girlfriend is under constant threat from the joke.

[Bill Simmons]

Stick around, Neil. Oh, and he's got this handsome cop who's going to protect her. And he's like, I've got to go to Angola. I'll be back. Claire says to Mike at one, they nailed the socialite rich person stuff. With Claire, it's really great. But then she says, I have to go for a pee to Mike. I just don't think she would say that. No, she was like, I have to stop by the ladies room. She would. There. It would just be classer. I don't think she would say that.

[Zach Lowe]

Also, Mike would probably just stand outside the ladies room. Do you know what I mean? Like, it wouldn't be like, oh, cool.

[Bill Simmons]

You, you, you can.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just gonna get a drink and talk to the lady who asks if I get hard when I shoot people. Why. Why doesn't Joey just murder ClA in the bathroom?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the two of them. He murdered Wyn Hawkins.

[Zach Lowe]

He's killed Wyn Hawkins. He will later almost kill a. A small child. He could have just stabbed Claire in the bathroom and left.

[Bill Simmons]

He could have done the shot car. Just quick 20 quick kidney shots.

[C]

Instead, he screamed, you don't say a word.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. She makes a lot of noise, quiet, and then smears lipstick over her face, then runs out so he can get arrested. It's freaking Shot Collar Sequel, Prequel. Prestige. Tbl. Black cast or Untouchable?

[Zach Lowe]

I think I'm all good.

[Bill Simmons]

You're good. It's.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not even an Untouchable.

[Zach Lowe]

Mike.

[Bill Simmons]

The next new part of the category.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't need to see how Claire got here. I, I. There's no character in this where I'm like, what was I? Other than Joey Venza? There's nobody else that, like, I'm like, we need more of this.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make the Prestige TV case?

[Zach Lowe]

But it would be like, that would be the kind of show that we would watch the first episode and be like, this rules. And then it would be like, episode six, and Joey Venzo would be like, you know, we're learning about Jo Square Garden. To do something. We would be like, what the is going on?

[Bill Simmons]

You don't think this could have been an Apple show? Apple loves rich people.

[Zach Lowe]

Terrible. By the fifth episode, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

We could learn more about the queens, some of the cops, Scotty's divorce.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The moaner.

[Zach Lowe]

And then the twist would be that it turns out Tommy was the one who killed Wyn Hawkins.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, would you watch Someone to Watch Over Me on Apple?

[C]

You just want more moments for erotic thriller scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you just want.

[C]

You just want more sex scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a Star show.

[Zach Lowe]

Is there. There are not really that many erotic shows on tv.

[Bill Simmons]

Stars had that show where it's like the couples that live next to each other in a house. And it's like a. Seems like a facsimile erotic throw show. I never watched it.

[Zach Lowe]

I gotta admit, I don't know what show you're talking about.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like stars. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Henry Hill. Added Henry Hill, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm.

[Zach Lowe]

God damn. Andreas. I didn't know I was working with a two armed man. I thought, much like Tobias Harris, you can't go left. Turns out you can kill in the name of probasic or contract law. You better stop intimidating witnesses or Sergeant Barnes is gonna send you away a long time, big boy.

[Bill Simmons]

That was a really good one. I'm not even gonna do mine. You don't want to do DB at all. Just because it's playoff times, I don't have anything prepared.

[Zach Lowe]

How is db has she been doing the Celtics?

[Bill Simmons]

Db When Mike's walking the streets of New York, I see you, Mike, battling this moral conscience of marriage versus adultery. Just want to ask her who gets it. I think Braco.

[Zach Lowe]

She's really good supporting actress. That's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I have some really good, probably unanswerable questions. How loaded was Claire?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, that's like a generational wealth we're talking about, right? Like, do you think.

[Bill Simmons]

What's going on here?

[Zach Lowe]

Do you think that she's like a. Like a.

[Bill Simmons]

Is she like one of the family money she talks about? She's like, I have to go to this thing because my dad funded this.

[Zach Lowe]

School and dead husband, Queens divorce.

[Bill Simmons]

How old do we think she is? Because I think family money's like 31, 32 in real life when she films this, probably. Probably engaged once in the. In her twenties and. And the engagement got broken off.

[Zach Lowe]

And you think Neil is kind of snooping around there?

[Bill Simmons]

I think Neil is like a rich guy, but doesn't make her toes curl. Yeah, she's.

[Zach Lowe]

I feel like she had a bad relationship and Neil's the rebound, the safe kind of like he's maybe with some.

[Bill Simmons]

Guy for five years, but it somehow didn't work out.

[Zach Lowe]

But I feel like she probably is supposed to be like a Mary Aster kind of like, you know, what does.

[Bill Simmons]

She do for a living, do we think?

[Zach Lowe]

Nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

Socialite slash.

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe owns an art gallery, Charitable foundation.

[Bill Simmons]

Does charitable stuff. The dad is probably. Probably not alive anymore because I feel like he would have gotten involved if.

[Zach Lowe]

He thought his daughter got his name on a bunch of buildings? Probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So maybe the parents are dead. Maybe they died in a small helicopter crash. The early 80s.

[Zach Lowe]

Having sex.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's the first scene in the erotic thriller. They shouldn't have humped in the helicopter, but. But yeah. So she probably no parents, engaged, inherited all this wealth and money's just no object at all times.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, but it's just like she doesn't. There's no feeling to it. Like she's. She's not getting any juice from it.

[Bill Simmons]

But people like that, they. They sometimes. How are they going to meet people? They're so intimidating. It's like the princess died corollary.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or. Or the Tiger Woods's ex wife when she was smoking hot and inherited most of his money and everybody was afraid to date her for like four years.

[Zach Lowe]

That's right. I forgot about that.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes that happens. Which leads me to my next unanswerable question. Claire, one of the great catches in movie history.

[Zach Lowe]

And now she's just off to Europe. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did anyone check more boxes than Claire?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean it's just. I think she would just be difficult to approach, you know, if you're just. If you bump into her at the. At the Oak Bar. At the Oak Room.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You really have to have a lot of confidence and probably some deep wallets. I feel like Craig could maybe hang for like an hour. Craig, could you hang with an hour single Craig?

[C]

Yeah, I'd tell her about Tet.

[Bill Simmons]

The NFL draft stuff. Talk about the Danny's.

[C]

She'd love to hear about the daddies.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Tell me more about if it's. You guys are fascinated.

[C]

Good chemistry.

[Bill Simmons]

Lives in D.C. and the others in Seattle.

[C]

Why are you so interested in what I do?

[Bill Simmons]

So it's in the NFL draft lady. My last unanswerable. This is a really good one. Great movie breakups where it's just like I'm not sure this person's going to be the same anytime soon. Yeah, this is way up there. What. What do Claire's next three boyfriends look like after this? Oh, she's almost been murdered over and over again.

[Zach Lowe]

Italian count next. Like there she's got to go for the stars. Next.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's like when Anne Hathaway when she was dating that guy that I think she was engaged to and he was that rich Italian dude, but then it turned out he was a complete phony.

[Zach Lowe]

Con artist.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was a con artist. And then it was like what it like after that. Who do You.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you on Raya after that? But like, yeah, I'd love to meet somebody. Like, you're just like, I never want to meet anyone again.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I just don't know what her next three look like. Probably like, I. I think she goes super old. It would be great if she late 70s.

[Zach Lowe]

If she dated like Wally Backman. Next.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a pretty good. She's dating. Yeah. I'm dating Gerald Wilkins. He's on the Knicks. He's the starting two guard. The Zwantnay award. What happened?

[Zach Lowe]

The next day, Mike and Ellie break up. He's made destitute by the divorce, has to pick up another job working security, and dies of a heart attack.

[Bill Simmons]

45, start smoking heavily. Yeah. I have the same. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

[Zach Lowe]

I definitely would not want the bunk bed in Scotty's bachelor pad.

[C]

I love when he's like, yeah, bunk beds. You know kids.

[Zach Lowe]

I would like the jet sweatshirt to give it to Sean. To give it to Fenrir.

[Bill Simmons]

Had that. Or the tie. But the Jet sweatshirt. I wonder if it's findable on ebay. The Coach Finstock award for best life lesson. What the hell is so great about being married? Marriage is an idea whose time has come and gone. Is an actual quote in this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. From Scotty.

[Zach Lowe]

What do you think about. I was gonna say, like, I was trying to articulate the light. Like, is it. Is it good that Mike cops to the falling for Claire to Ellie? Like, could he have just played that? Like. Yeah, look, it's a couple night shifts. Don't worry.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he wants to. She kind of breaks him down.

[Zach Lowe]

No, she doesn't. He like, he's clearly.

[Bill Simmons]

He can't even make eye contact with her. Yeah. Well, I think they have such good relationship. He doesn't want to hide stuff from her. That's how I interpreted it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I think that the. The marriage one is a good life lessons.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice.

[Zach Lowe]

I had jagged edge.

[Bill Simmons]

So 87. Just again, the to be greatest. Almost like how the NBA was. That was one of the best NBA years. I had Black Widow, but you also could talk me into Fatal Attraction, Jagged Edge, or a couple other movies from that. But I think it has to be another 87 movie to get. Because I had Black Widow. Because that's another movie. I think that also might be a to be movie. Black Widow is Deborah Winger and Teresa Russell.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Jagged Edge is a couple years before Glenn Close plays a lawyer.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, right. That's 85. Yeah. But I think suspect is 87, which is another one. Dennis Quaid and Cher, another 2B all star. But Black Widow, it's another one where the first 90 of the movie is.

[Zach Lowe]

Awesome, and then the last 10.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the last 10 minutes, you're like, what the. Yeah, that's the ending.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, this is the thing with Someone to Watch Over Me is a way better midlife crisis movie than it is a cop movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Really tough one. Who won the movie?

[Zach Lowe]

I think it's a push among the actors. I. It would be kind of crazy to give it to Braco, so I'm gonna go, Ridley.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's Mimi or Braco, but I think it's Mimi because this movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Left me wishing she'd done more.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Braco got to be in some good stuff. Mimi, it's like. What? Just felt like there was more there. Maybe there could have been some. Like, could she have been the lead of law and order SVU for like, 25 years?

[Zach Lowe]

She was like, a great poker player too. Is that what you. Yeah, I mean, maybe she was. I was fascinated by her taking down big pots.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe we just need to have her on the rewatchables and just dive into stuff. Yeah. Figure out what's going on with her.

[Zach Lowe]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

This is really, really exciting. Craig had no idea what this movie was, which. Thank Craig.

[C]

I don't know what it says about me that now I'm like Minority Report. Not for me. And then this movie, I'm like, pretty good. I'm just into this now. You guys have converted me.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you think you like it more now after Bill started crying, laughing, talking about all the places that they could have fucked?

[C]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the Valerie has my back.

[C]

Yeah. My ass is not as tight as it used to be. Jump in there, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Perfect spot. Let me build your self esteem up.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. These do it for me now. It's like scouting Abdul Carter's boring. I want like a fourth round tackle out of Chattanooga, you know? And that's what this movie is. It's. It's a couple squares short of 80s movie bingo, but it hits a lot of them. You know, you get the. The love triangle. You got like the twangy guitar sound like in between scenes. You got dance club. I think this is Hairdo Apex Mountain.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[C]

This. This is the Wade, LeBron and Bosch big three of hair. 80s hairdos out of the three of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

That's the best mom hair I've ever seen.

[C]

It's like, bordering on Marge Simpson.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But it's just no gratuitous nudity. We have to have that no sex scene. It's a huge miss.

[Zach Lowe]

I was almost wondering if I was watching the TV Cut.

[C]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I was like, did I admit, like, is there really no nudity in this movie? I mean, there's like, Barringer ass.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because I think. I honestly don't understand it. That's really, like.

[Zach Lowe]

I think he was trying to make it very tasty and classic.

[Bill Simmons]

Really, like, he's not really, like, a big, crazy nudity sex guy.

[C]

Sigourney Weaver at the end of Aliens in her underwear. Mimi Rogers is like, in a turtleneck the whole day.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, right. Well, it's an interesting choice because, like, Mimi's tall and she's. I would. I'll say the word buxom. And they really try to hide her and close the entire movie. We. You don't know it because it's all about, like, her hair and her face.

[Zach Lowe]

It's also like, like, what is it? I guess it must be like fall in New York. I mean, like, it's appropriate for, like, the weather.

[Bill Simmons]

And, like, that's why we needed the jet scene. We needed a jet scene.

[Zach Lowe]

Imagine if. If Mike takes Claire to the Jets.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Lowe]

He's like, I wanted to show you some of my world. So we're going to sit next to fireman head and much cast.

[Bill Simmons]

Some kid in a Johnny Lamb Jones jersey throws up next to her, booting up Miller late.

[C]

Mike is really borderline concussed when she's like, do you want to go grab a drink? He likes sits there and thinks about it for 15 seconds.

[Zach Lowe]

And then he's like.

[C]

He's like, cocktails, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm like, well, what's Mike's deal? Let's go have those cocktails.

[Bill Simmons]

Should. This would have been a good category. Should Mike have had a mustache? Would you give it him a New York because he has a mustache?

[Zach Lowe]

Earlier? He should have, but this was 80. We're getting. We're getting towards the 90s. So I think guys were.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that category we have about. Did this movie need a sports scene? This movie so clearly needs a jet scene with him going to the jets with three of his buddies. Not with Claire, but when they're like, so, Mikey, what's going on with you in that rich broad?

[Zach Lowe]

It would be funny if there was like, a Tommy skateboarding sequence where he's, like, doing all these tricks and stuff, but Mike's just daydreaming.

[Bill Simmons]

About nailing Tommy breaks an ankle.

[C]

I would like to say good morning to Mimi Rogers. I was unfamiliar with her game.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So what'd you think? Were you surprised that this was basically the best movie she's been in?

[C]

Yeah. Her name is a name I've always known, but I could never put a face to it. I could not have told you. A movie she's in and she. I mean, she's up there.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an incredible. Can't believe her and Cruz were a couple.

[C]

I know. I didn't even really know that, or I think that's why I only knew her name from that. But I didn't know what she looked like or who she really was.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of. A lot of teeth for both of them. The kids would have been really interesting. Probably super handsome, kind of Kennedy. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Craig Horbrick, producer, by you today, by the way. Thanks. Jack Sanders as well back there. Cr. Chris Ryan, A one for us. We'll. We'll start doing some bigger ones after this episode, but we had to squeeze this out. Good to see you, Sierra.