‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rewatchables – ‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two)

Host and Panelists:

• Bill Simmons (Host)
• Chris Ryan
• Sean Fennessey
• Van Lathan

Release Date: May 6, 2025

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Introduction

In the second part of their deep dive into Star Wars: A New Hope, Bill Simmons and his roundtable of movie aficionados—Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan—continue unpacking the timeless elements that make this 1977 classic a perennial rewatchable favorite. Skipping the initial advertisements and intros, the conversation swiftly moves into an in-depth analysis of the film's most memorable scenes, character dynamics, and lasting impact on popular culture.

---

Favorite Scenes

Cantina Scene and Its Legacy
The cantina scene emerges as a unanimous favorite among the panelists. They laud its originality, vibrant characters, and the seamless integration of practical effects that remain impressive decades later.

Bill Simmons [05:01]: “I think this is one of the best scenes of the entire '70s. It has led to a lot of comedy, a lot of jokes over the years of ‘Oh my God. What bar did we just walk into? Is this a Star Wars bar?’”

The Trench Run
The iconic trench run sequence is celebrated for its high stakes and thrilling execution, drawing comparisons to legendary aerial battle scenes in cinema history.

Sean Fennessey [19:52]: “The trench run is my most rewatchable scene. This whole sequence is the signature scene of the movie.”

Destruction of Alderaan
The moment the Death Star obliterates Alderaan is highlighted for its emotional weight and the dramatic setting it provides for the ensuing rebellion.

Van Lathan [43:30]: “I like the destruction of Alderaan. Just the first time we see the Death Star in action. High stakes, really. Rendered well.”

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Character Analysis

Darth Vader: From Villain to Icon
Darth Vader's evolution from a mysterious antagonist to a cultural icon is a focal point. The panel discusses his profound influence on the franchise and his role as a complex antagonist whose presence shapes the narrative.

Van Lathan [32:37]: “The number one thing that's aged the best to me in the entire movie is Darth fucking Vader. Darth Vader goes from being a cool, mysterious villain to a cultural icon that really, now the entire franchise is oriented around.”

Han Solo and the “Han Shot First” Debate
The alteration of the infamous “Han shot first” scene sparks passionate debate, highlighting fan reactions and the impact of this change on Han Solo's character arc.

Bill Simmons [07:32]: “Well, can you go backwards? So in the first cut of the movie, which no longer exists, people think Greedo never shot at him.”

Luke Skywalker’s Journey
Luke’s character is analyzed for his development from an unsure farm boy to a burgeoning Jedi, with discussions on his interactions with other characters and his role in the overarching story.

Chris Ryan [17:31]: “I think the movie is fascinating because in the top six parts, you have extremely well people who are either well known or about to be really well known.”

---

Special Effects and Soundtrack

Practical Effects and ILM’s Pioneering Work
The panel commends the groundbreaking practical effects employed by Industrial Light & Magic (ILM), noting how they set a benchmark for future sci-fi films.

Sean Fennessey [29:58]: “Obi Wan wields a lightsaber. The first time you really see. Which is very exciting.”

John Williams’ Iconic Score
John Williams’ evocative soundtrack receives accolades for its ability to enhance the film's emotional and dramatic moments, creating an immersive experience.

Bill Simmons [43:14]: “John Williams’ scores are timeless and elevate every scene they're in.”

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Plot Critiques and Observations

Storyboard Logic and Character Decisions
While generally praising the film, the panel points out certain plot inconsistencies and character decisions that might seem perplexing upon repeated viewings.

Chris Ryan [91:15]: “But for our job as the rewatchables is to treat this movie as its own movie that came out in 1977 and then remake.”

Lack of Emotional Depth in Character Development
The rapid progression of dramatic events leaves some characters underdeveloped in terms of emotional arcs, a point of contention among the panelists.

Chris Ryan [93:46]: “Like Leia watches her whole planet being blown up, and he's like inside of their home. And then he's going to the cantina and hanging out over and over again.”

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Representation and Diversity

Limited Female and Minority Characters
The discussion touches on the film's lack of diverse characters, reflecting on both its time and the cultural impact of these omissions.

Sean Fennessey [52:20]: “There's, like, only two women in this movie. It's a big sausage party out in that galaxy.”

Impact of Representation in Sci-Fi
Van Lathan emphasizes the importance of diverse representation in creating an inclusive and relatable universe, arguing for the need to expand beyond the predominantly white cast.

Van Lathan [98:38]: “I like their lovable boy... There's a planet with nothing but white people. Why can't there be a planet with [diverse characters]?”

---

Casting What-Ifs and Anecdotes

Alternate Casting Choices
The panel engages in lighthearted speculation about how different casting choices might have altered the film's dynamics, including discussions on actors like Kurt Russell, Mark Hamill, and potential replacements for Han Solo and Luke Skywalker.

Bill Simmons [81:16]: “Could Luke Wilson have been Harrison Ford? Would that have been too much testosterone for the role?”

Behind-the-Scenes Stories
Anecdotes about the casting process, including rejected auditioners and the decisions leading to the final character portrayals, add depth to the discussion.

Chris Ryan [84:35]: “Sean Young was almost Obi Wan. It would have been interesting, but she didn’t get the role.”

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Memorable Quotes and Moments

Iconic Lines
Memorable quotes from the film are cited as enduring elements that contribute to its legendary status.

Bill Simmons [19:44]: “Great shot, kid. That was one in a million.”

Humorous Takes and Fan Theories
The panel also explores humorous interpretations and fan theories, such as R2-D2’s potential force sensitivity and the mechanics of Chewbacca’s biology.

Sean Fennessey [86:52]: “Do you wish there were more times in Star Wars where someone was like, I gotta take a piss?”

---

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, the panel reflects on the enduring legacy of Star Wars: A New Hope, balancing reverence for its groundbreaking achievements with critical observations that invite listeners to view the film through a contemporary lens. The lively banter and diverse perspectives offer both nostalgic appreciation and thoughtful critique, making this discussion a rich resource for both longtime fans and newcomers eager to understand why Star Wars remains a cornerstone of cinematic history.

Bill Simmons [113:39]: “Thanks, guys. You’ve done a great job. We’ve covered a lot of ground today.”

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Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons [07:32]: “Well, can you go backwards? So in the first cut of the movie, which no longer exists, people think Greedo never shot at him.”
• Sean Fennessey [19:52]: “The trench run is my most rewatchable scene. This whole sequence is the signature scene of the movie.”
• Van Lathan [32:37]: “Darth Vader goes from being a cool, mysterious villain to a cultural icon that really, now the entire franchise is oriented around.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Rewatchables not only celebrates the unforgettable moments of Star Wars: A New Hope but also critically examines its components, engaging listeners in a multifaceted conversation that honors the film’s legacy while acknowledging its imperfections. Whether you're revisiting the film for the first time or rediscovering its magic, this summary captures the essence of the panel’s dynamic and insightful discussion.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen. Listen to your podcast. Let's go. This episode is brought to you by new Pro Namo Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste. One thing we all try to do to stay healthy is to keep up a routine. Things like daily yoga or trying to maintain a healthy diet. So how about making oral health part of your day? Brush your teeth twice daily with Pro Enamel Clinical Enamel Strength for three times stronger enamel protection. And to help protect teeth for life, try new pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste right now. Impact confirmed. The slayer has been activated.

[Van Lathan]

Demonic threat level increasing.

[Chris Ryan]

Wall the line. All the power of hell.

[Van Lathan]

Cowering of O1 Man IT software presents the Dark Ages. May 15th on Xbox Series X&S. PlayStation 5 and PC pre order now.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Rated M for mature.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, rewatchables part two. How many rewatchables have we done? Two parters for Pope.

[Sean Fennessey]

Got two.

[Chris Ryan]

I think this is the third.

[Bill Simmons]

Boogies.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't even know this was going to be a part two. But then part one lasted so long, we were like, jesus, we haven't even gotten to a category yet.

[Sean Fennessey]

I feel like if we redid jfk, I would go two parts because now we have more documentation.

[Bill Simmons]

Who said, why can't we go Lucas on it and just dive back and just try to keep making a good idea?

[Chris Ryan]

We should digitally edit that one and get more. More conspiracy theory in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's say categories because there is a lot.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

To cover most rewatchable scene. Opening shootout scene in Darth Entrance. That's in there, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

First appearance of Darth Vader.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Luke meets Obi Wan. Here's about his dad. Now that's a name I haven't heard for a long time.

[Chris Ryan]

That was good.

[Sean Fennessey]

Not bad.

[Van Lathan]

Not bad.

[Bill Simmons]

He's working on it. Of course I know him. He's me.

[Van Lathan]

He's me.

[Bill Simmons]

We gotta save C3PO. We find out that Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force. What does that mean? More yeah, Dark side of the Force.

[Sean Fennessey]

Just giving into your evil.

[Bill Simmons]

What does that mean?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's a whole prequel trilogy about how that happened.

[Bill Simmons]

It's an energy field of all living things still out there.

[Sean Fennessey]

Just grab it and go get it.

[Chris Ryan]

What's his name?

[Bill Simmons]

And heat.

[Chris Ryan]

What's that guy's name?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's Tom Noonan character.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he has a name.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he does.

[Bill Simmons]

He has a name in the movie. How do they name characters that we never see?

[Chris Ryan]

Kelso.

[Bill Simmons]

Also this is a short scene for me. I just wrote down Vader up the conference room meeting and choke forces at a dude.

[Van Lathan]

But yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, you mean like in a. Wow. You. You that guy up. Not like you up the.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

He wrecks the meeting and then chokes.

[Van Lathan]

At a dude cuz the guy calls him out. Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is.

[Chris Ryan]

Insignificant next to the power of the Force.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader.

[Sean Fennessey]

Your sad devotion to that ancient religion.

[Van Lathan]

Has not helped you conjure up the.

[Sean Fennessey]

Stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels hidden fort.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways.

[Sean Fennessey]

He found that guy's amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that guy.

[Van Lathan]

And he is. He's so certain and he doesn't know who he's fucking with. He's but the first one to be choked out because after Tarkin is dead, Vader's fucking on. He's off the leash for the next couple of movies choking out everyone.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like when Dylan Brooks talked back to Jimmy Butler.

[Sean Fennessey]

The foul line.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like don't do that. Turn your choke down.

[Van Lathan]

Dylan's body language, not the greatest there. Seemed like he was up against a bigger line.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes, you know, right. Sometimes you can tell by the pupils. It's all right to enjoy every Vader moment of this movie. Right? So make me a bad person.

[Sean Fennessey]

Get ready to learn Chinese. Get ready to learn Chinese.

[Chris Ryan]

The Star wars bar, the cantina.

[Bill Simmons]

You can throw in after I'm done. I just. I tried to cut it down. I got you. I think this is one of the best scenes of the entire 70s. It. It has led to a lot of comedy, a lot of jokes over the years of. Oh my God. What bar did we just walk into? Is this a Star wars bar? Just a million of those. We don't serve droids here.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, droid races.

[Bill Simmons]

Why not?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What's Wrong.

[Van Lathan]

With droids.

[Bill Simmons]

Droids can buy a beer.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, we didn't know at the time. The droids, they had some problems.

[Van Lathan]

Problems with the droids. The droids are.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, tell me, what were the problems?

[Van Lathan]

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

[Sean Fennessey]

Isn't. Weren't the droids part of, like, the clone army or whatever? Like.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, do you think they know? They know three PO and R2D two from before.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, I meant, like, they just have, like, an antagonism towards droids in general.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So during droid bias.

[Van Lathan]

Well, during. Well, not the Clone wars, but prior to the Clone wars, like the.

[Craig Horlbeck]

This is why I can't be a Star wars fan.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, no, not this.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig just left.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm asking if that's why he said it.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

I actually don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

He said it because droids don't drink and they take up space in bars. Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

Come on. The original, in the. When the Trade Federation, when it first started, everybody. They were fighting, it was all droids. Okay, so maybe they didn't like droids. They want droids around.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think they should?

[Sean Fennessey]

There's a square footage issue. So many drinks they need to turn.

[Chris Ryan]

Is not as big as it looks.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, do you think C3PO should add a Boston accent and then got mad at the bartender? Be like, you think you're better than me?

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you like the Star wars cantina more or less than the Verdict Bar?

[Bill Simmons]

Now, the Verdict bar is number one. Does. Is this bar the same set as the bar and Raiders?

[Chris Ryan]

It's not, but they have a similar energy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

With the, like, the way the bar is set up.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of scoundrels in the mix there.

[Bill Simmons]

We get monster with testicles on his chin. We get the negotiation with han solo for 17K. And most important, we get a shootout with Han and Greedo, which becomes the most. I never knew anything about research. Yeah. The Star wars universe loses their minds about this.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Why?

[Bill Simmons]

Why is this so important?

[Van Lathan]

Because it's central to Han Solo's character.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's the MJ versus LeBron of nerd culture.

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

Over my dead body.

[Van Lathan]

Yes, I bet you have. It's central to Han's character.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, can you. Can you go backwards? So in the first cut of the movie, which no longer exists, people think Greedo never shot at him.

[Chris Ryan]

Han shot first.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why they have the Han shot first T shirts. But then in 97, what happens?

[Van Lathan]

They Change it to where Greedo takes a shot at Han and misses. And then Han kills and Han like.

[Chris Ryan]

Ducks and Greedo's like McClunky, which is like a line that was not in the movie originally.

[Bill Simmons]

And the fucking. And the Star wars nerds lost their minds.

[Van Lathan]

So this is the deal.

[Bill Simmons]

This was like the most egregious violation.

[Chris Ryan]

They retconned his decency.

[Van Lathan]

Right. And this is the thing, right? This is, to me emblematic of what happens to something when it is consumed by the masses. Solo has already been established as a good guy. He goes from being a scoundrel and someone who only thinks about himself to being a good guy. We don't need to make him a good guy. At his core, his character arc is that he finds value in his friends and in his relationships and then becomes.

[Bill Simmons]

He comes back at the end. Yeah, he's a good guy.

[Van Lathan]

That's the value of it. We don't need him to always, at his core, have been a good guy. He is the type of guy that says, oh, you're here for this. I recognize my opportunity. I will kill you before you have the opportunity to kill me.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I ask you a random question?

[Chris Ryan]

They shouldn't have changed it.

[Bill Simmons]

What would have been a better name for a rapper? Han Solo or Greedo?

[Sean Fennessey]

Greedo is the.

[Chris Ryan]

Greedo is the rapper.

[Van Lathan]

All three Greedos. Grape Street Crips. Yeah, I can bring him.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it actually Greedo or did he. Is it like an extended name?

[Van Lathan]

His name is O3.

[Bill Simmons]

Greedo, but that's not Greedo.

[Van Lathan]

His name is Greedo though.

[Chris Ryan]

Inspired by Greedo.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Great name.

[Chris Ryan]

It is Grape Street. Very unforgettable.

[Van Lathan]

We should go down to Watts. This is what we should. We should go down to Watts. That's what we should have had in for this.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the actual Star wars and the Star wars pod in watts.

[Van Lathan]

In watts. We should. Should have gone down and did it with the Grape Streets. They'd have.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna move on. I have R2 and Chewie playing circle chess. What? What? What's going on there?

[Sean Fennessey]

They're just playing futuristic 3D risk chess. Yeah. You skipped one of my favorite low key scenes, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Stop.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm tarkin making Leia watch him blow up her planet while Darth puts his dad hands on her.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, really, like that's pure kink. That is kink right there.

[Sean Fennessey]

One of the most illest things I've ever seen.

[Bill Simmons]

I grow tired of asking this, so it'll be the last time. Where is the rebel base?

[Sean Fennessey]

Dantooine. They're on Dantooine.

[Bill Simmons]

There, you see, Lord Vader?

[Chris Ryan]

She can be reasonable.

[Bill Simmons]

Continue with the operation. You may fire when ready. What? You're far too trusty. Dantooine is too remote to make it an effective demonstration. But don't worry. We will deal with your rebel friends soon enough.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Commence primary ignition.

[Sean Fennessey]

When I was a kid, the first time, I was like, they're not going to blow that planet up. Though not just to test the weapon.

[Van Lathan]

Sets the stakes of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Also, look at the sheer shock and horror on her face when he goes. Ready the weapon system. Fire at will.

[Sean Fennessey]

And what did you say? You're far too trusting.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you're far too trusting. Ready? Fire. Will. What? What? And then she has to watch everyone. Her family, everybody she's ever known blown up.

[Sean Fennessey]

To be fair, though, she gets over it pretty fast as well.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I have some notes about that a little later.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, during the circle chess scene, we get. We learn that it's not wise to upset a wookie. Luke tries to figure out the force of the lightsaber. Solo's like, fuck it. I don't believe in the force. You guys are fucking crazy. And then. And Obi's just coming in with the. Your eyes can deceive if you don't trust them doing his thing. I really like all that's going on in that scene. There's just. There's a board game going on. Yeah. There's somebody trying to figure out the force. Han Solo's cracking. You went on that scene.

[Van Lathan]

Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, I have the Falcon crew breaking into the mothership. What are our thoughts for Chewie with a gun? What's going on with him?

[Van Lathan]

Well, I think he's. He's.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's a prisoner, so he's pretending to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you want to break into a.

[Sean Fennessey]

Mothership with that guy so close to long legs.

[Van Lathan]

How dare you talk about you behind this weight.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you look in the mirror last night?

[Bill Simmons]

I told you when I practice coffee lit.

[Chris Ryan]

But you came in with like, a really good Alec Guinness. Like a really good. And then you just blast.

[Van Lathan]

You know. What the. Are you why he's treating Chewy this way? Chewy's the muscle. You gotta have him.

[Bill Simmons]

The princess, they're gonna save her.

[Van Lathan]

We.

[Bill Simmons]

We figure out.

[Sean Fennessey]

Aren't you gonna fight, Stormtrooper. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Vader. How do you feel about.

[Chris Ryan]

Vader's like a presence I've not felt since.

[Bill Simmons]

What is this.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Feeling of.

[Van Lathan]

Remember, that's his master. That's his teacher. They're Locked in the Force. And this is their third duel that they've had. There's Mustafar. Then there's the duel that happened in the Obi Wan movie.

[Chris Ryan]

We don't recognize that.

[Van Lathan]

And so this is the. I agree. And so this is the third duel that they have. But this guy who's been training him since he was a little boy. So they're connected in the Force.

[Sean Fennessey]

He also cut him to pieces and threw him in lava.

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's probably like, this is the all time.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I'll save it for eight hours now.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

It turns out he's not feeling the Force. It's Bill Belichick's girlfriend just trying to interrupt the scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

She's got a little bit of Princess Leia energy.

[Chris Ryan]

Should she have been there when Leia was being questioned about the location of the rebel? We're not talking about that.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you feel about. Escape is not his plan. I must face him alone.

[Chris Ryan]

He just slipped into Charles Bronson again.

[Bill Simmons]

Just watch Death Wish.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you mean the Force?

[Bill Simmons]

How do you feel about his plan to face Obi Wan alone?

[Van Lathan]

They're still on journeys. Vader is still on a journey. He's just. Vader has a journey that was outlined for him and for the Emperor. The lore is so dense here. But for him to. And Obi Wan actually has a journey as well. He makes this decision to become one with the Force so that he can become a Force. Ghost and all of that stuff. So them facing each other is a separate battle than the one that's happening between the Empire and Rebellion. Little.

[Bill Simmons]

Little pro wrestling in this. It's like we got to do a steel cage match and really figure this out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We've had a couple other matches. There's some double count. This is a loser leaves town.

[Chris Ryan]

Loser leaves his corporeal form.

[Bill Simmons]

And we go right into the garbage hole. What would you call Compactor? Compactor.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you there, sir?

[Sean Fennessey]

3Po?

[Bill Simmons]

We've had some problems.

[Sean Fennessey]

Will you shut up and listen to me? Shut down all the garbage mashers on.

[Bill Simmons]

The detention level, will ya?

[Sean Fennessey]

Via copy.

[Van Lathan]

Shut down all the garbage bashes on the detention level.

[Bill Simmons]

Shut down all the garbage bashes on the. And we get the garbage snake. Now. Was that in the original movie? Or they add shit.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's actually the name of a fan's favorite Axel Braun movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a dark, dark, dark movie. This whole scene is really, really. This is. Would you say this is the. What's our category for the. Okay, motherfucker.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's up there.

[Bill Simmons]

This is when it really kicks me.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think, okay, motherfucker. Is when Darth Vader blasts through a door in the first scene. But it's. This is so cool. Even though, like, some of the physics of it don't really make any sense. Yeah, it's. I. I always. And I. Every time I watch it, I'm really nervous that they're not gonna get out. I'm worried that one of them is.

[Van Lathan]

Gonna go down, that they're gonna get squashed. Yeah. It seems like every time you're so happy that 3PO comes through.

[Sean Fennessey]

Cause they're so elated. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

They don't get squashed.

[Bill Simmons]

Squashing scenes always work where people are like. And you just.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

One of my favorite cuts in the whole movie is when Luke has got the radio and he's screaming and he's saying 3 PO.

[Van Lathan]

3 PO.

[Chris Ryan]

And then it cuts to the mic on the other end, and three PO's not there.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Ryan]

And you can hear it. And he's stuck behind the closet door.

[Sean Fennessey]

Or when 3PO thinks that they're all dead and he's like, oh, dam.

[Bill Simmons]

And then chew.

[Van Lathan]

Is like, stop with the 3po.is gets such a raw deal. Because a lot of Star wars fans don't like 3 PO.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Kind of annoying.

[Bill Simmons]

He's annoying, but he's got some good lines.

[Van Lathan]

Well, R2 is a hero. R2 is a hero.

[Chris Ryan]

He shows up.

[Van Lathan]

Don't. Don't. Come on. You're doing so well.

[Chris Ryan]

He's kind of Draymondi, I would say. You know, like, R2 are fine. 3:00pm R2 is like Draymond, and Luke is. Is Steph in this equation, basically. You know, like, we need. Luke needs R2.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like his Navigator. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Draymond with no flagrants or anything.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And he. And he always comes through. He's brave. He's fighting. He fights. He's resourceful. Hold on. It's Brave little Droid.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. He didn't. He didn't knock my socks off in either viewing, but maybe I missed some stuff.

[Van Lathan]

A lot more stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Cantina into Death Star Invasion into Compactor crack.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Incredible sequencing.

[Bill Simmons]

So good. Darth versus Obi Wan.

[Sean Fennessey]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I am the master. Your pals are weakled, man. I'm starting to sound like Chung Lee a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Blood sport. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi. It will soon see the end of the rebellion.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you want more from the saber fight or no?

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it was a sacrifice for very you know, for a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

How'd you feel about Sir Alex? Like, little twirl move, kind of slow.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, we can get into that.

[Bill Simmons]

Little Kenjal Perkins and the low post kind of jump hook energy.

[Sean Fennessey]

I watched the tape on this one when I got up in the morning.

[Bill Simmons]

It wasn't great. They could have stunt doubled him.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe he's old. Look, I will say that we reinvented the lightsaber battle in the prequel trilogy.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, obviously, Reynolds are doing flips and shit.

[Van Lathan]

Doing flips. But Lucas even used story to explain that. He goes, there were thousands of Jedi. It was a more elegant time, like Obi Wan says. And they fought with more flair and more style. Seven different styles of lightsaber defense and offense.

[Bill Simmons]

So JJ Redick, plumbers and whatever he said.

[Chris Ryan]

But that's the future.

[Van Lathan]

But this is different, though. J.J. redick Plumbers were in the old days. Now these guys haven't used the saber in a long time.

[Sean Fennessey]

If JJ plays LeBron for another second half, it's gonna look like Alec Gibson.

[Chris Ryan]

These Jedis were driving cabs at night to make extra dough.

[Bill Simmons]

I was trying to think, like, if, like Shane and Sharpe not being on first take anymore. If they have to jumpstart the ratings, they should do segments where they do, like, stuff like them actually breaking down Obi Wan versus Vader. Just being like, obi tanked the fight. He tanked it.

[Van Lathan]

He just rolled over.

[Bill Simmons]

This is why he was in the GR. Greatest Jedi. Just like, hands.

[Sean Fennessey]

How many rings does Obi Wan have?

[Bill Simmons]

What's he doing? He's just in the desert. He's not even a great Jedi.

[Chris Ryan]

What is he doing? Is a good question.

[Bill Simmons]

Two more scenes. The Millennium Falcon comes back to save Luke, which I don't remember seeing. The experience of seeing this in the theater other than being like, whoa, outer space. But I guess a lot of times people cheered in the theater when the Falcon. Millennium Falcon showed up. That was like a. A moment fan.

[Van Lathan]

I have you now. Then out of nowhere, he's knocked out. And they don't kill Vader. Yeah, don't kill Vader.

[Bill Simmons]

Great shot, kid. That was one in a million.

[Van Lathan]

I have you now. What? Yahoo.

[Bill Simmons]

Look out.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're all clear, kid. Now let's blow this thing and go home. The trench run is my most rewatchable scene. This is this whole sequence.

[Van Lathan]

It's the signature scene of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

And one more scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I kind of like the big ceremony at the end.

[Sean Fennessey]

You do?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I do. Everybody.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just kind of an epilogue. It's not Really? A scene? Like, there's very little dialogue.

[Bill Simmons]

Did Chewie get, like, a metal word?

[Chris Ryan]

No, this is the whole thing.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, don't. Don't act like you know this, right?

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's on the stage. He doesn't get.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a whole thing about this medal. And they had to give him a medal in the later movies and, you.

[Sean Fennessey]

Know, does it go against, like, religion?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just.

[Van Lathan]

I never thought.

[Bill Simmons]

He wasn't one. I didn't understand why he was on this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, technically, what did he really do?

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

Wait.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow. He's also disrespecting Chewie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Chewie doesn't fly anything, Luke.

[Chris Ryan]

He's his first mate of the millennium.

[Sean Fennessey]

He was on board.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

So you don't think. You don't think Chewie deserved.

[Chris Ryan]

Are we sure.

[Sean Fennessey]

Participation trophy.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, hold on.

[Van Lathan]

Not only do I. I think that Chewie deserved the medal. I think the droids should have got medals, too.

[Chris Ryan]

I agree. There's a cutaway to the droids and they're just like.

[Van Lathan]

They're all shined up, but I think they should have got medals, too. But just to let you know, the fact that Chewie didn't get a medal is a gigantic deal. And in. I think it's Rise of Skywalker, an abomination of the film.

[Chris Ryan]

A movie in which he should have been killed, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And they end it by giving him a medal.

[Van Lathan]

They gave him his medal. They gave Chewie his medal.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm do my CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take award. Right now, Chewbacca, most overrated sidekick ever, stands out everywhere he goes. You can't slide into any stupid tough right now. Just wait. It's the hottest cake. I'm sorry. Everywhere you go with him, he stands out. He's a behemoth who's not going to notice him. He speaks an unintelligible language that only one other person understands. He can't do anything.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. You don't know what.

[Bill Simmons]

He's useless. He can't shoot.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't really see him. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

You don't know what. Break down.

[Bill Simmons]

Break down the door. Superhuman strength.

[Van Lathan]

This.

[Sean Fennessey]

You did so well for like two.

[Bill Simmons]

Hours, you don't know what the. Can I finish? Never uses size or strength. And I don't understand why he was even on the stage.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, first of all, he has like two stormtroopers. He is an expert pilot. He's actually an expert shot with.

[Sean Fennessey]

In this movie, though. Like, is he ever piloting the gun is embarrassing.

[Chris Ryan]

When they're leaving Tatooine and they're escaping and going into hyperspeed, you know, Chewie was there. He was co piloting the Millennium Pilot in Millennium Falcon.

[Van Lathan]

That wasn't something he's the mechanic of.

[Chris Ryan]

The casserole parsecs didn't parsec itself.

[Van Lathan]

He fixes the ship.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember the movie Sully, who was the co pilot? I don't remember.

[Chris Ryan]

Aaron Eckhart.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I don't remember.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't remember. Okay. I don't know. How does take? I thought it was a great take.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, also the muscle. Once again, he's.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to learn more.

[Van Lathan]

How about he could have fucked a.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple more guys up.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he has more utility in the. In the future films. Physically. Yeah, in the. In the next two.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I wanted.

[Van Lathan]

And by the way, it is fun to look at Chewbacca that Kenobi talks to.

[Chris Ryan]

That's absolutely right.

[Van Lathan]

In order to get Luke and Kenobi onto the ship, he arranges the whole deal.

[Chris Ryan]

To me, I think there is a case for most rewatchable scene for the cantina scene. Because the cantina scene gives you this. It gives you Obi Wan wields a lightsaber. The first time you really see. Which is very exciting. It's the first time you also see a limb get cut off in a Star wars movie. Something that recurs throughout all of these movies. You get Han and Greedo, which is super small character moment in a movie that tells us a lot about the world that we're in. And then you get this great getaway sequence that's all part of the cantina, plus the jazz score and all the cool characters, like the creatures from that scene are all in that little 12 minute pocket of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It sounds like you're making the case for me. It's 100% the cantina.

[Chris Ryan]

You think it's the cantina?

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it's the trench run.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the cantina.

[Chris Ryan]

My vote was gonna be trench run, but I do think there's a case for cantina, so.

[Bill Simmons]

It's so much fun. It's just the most fun 12 minutes.

[Sean Fennessey]

I can't believe there's like a sequence of a sci fi movie that last 20 minutes and still like 40 years later. I'm like, yep. And then Porkins comes in and then this happens. And then the TIE fighters get behind them. But then the one TIE fighter spins out. And like, I. I feel like it's like one of the most amazing Air sequences, outer space sequences ever committed to foam.

[Van Lathan]

It's. Okay. So between the two scenes.

[Sean Fennessey]

And is also basically the plot of Top Gun Maverick.

[Van Lathan]

It's between the two scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

It's including them getting off the plane. It's the end of Top Gun this.

[Van Lathan]

It's between these two scenes. To me, I could make maybe, maybe an argument for the entire sequence where they're actually dressed like stormtroopers and they are rescuing Princess Leia.

[Bill Simmons]

However, the Chewbacca part was a little dicey.

[Van Lathan]

If we're.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a prisoner, we're transferring him.

[Van Lathan]

If we're talking about again, rewatching scenes, the scene that has been the most recreated. My blood's burnt. Is to me the trench run. It was to me the. The most signature scene from Star Wars.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's your most.

[Van Lathan]

That's my most rewatchable for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, two for two.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm actually with them. I was just making the case of the pot cantina.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Or to be honest, I kind of love when they're just like running around the Death Star trying to escape. Stuff like that.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that's fun too.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what else is fun?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like being Death Star.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's been so many movies since and so many of them have cribbed from them being trapped. And like, I watched this and I kept thinking of all the Austin Powers movies, how many things they've ripped off from Star wars. Like the big conference room, all that stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's so many things across, obviously the entire trilogies of films and shows. But with. Even within the film where you're watching something, you're like, oh, wow. Kind of getting away with this. And then it turns out like Vader talks target into letting them go so that they can track them back to the rebel base. It's like everything has.

[Bill Simmons]

He was on one. This movie mastermind. Really, really using the Force in the wrong ways.

[Sean Fennessey]

In a dark way almost. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1977 thing about this movie? C.R.

[Sean Fennessey]

Nixon being in it? No, I. I guess some of this, like the laser beam special effects, some of the explosions where it just looks like a sparkler going off. I mean, like they did incredible stuff, but there certain things that they just couldn't catch up with yet.

[Van Lathan]

I see.

[Chris Ryan]

I wrote that down the bit as a positive. Just that the overwhelming amount of practical effects, the hand drawn imagery, like the matte paintings as backgrounds, the models, the optical effects, like all stuff that you just don't see nearly as much in movies, which I like also A lot of white people in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I can't wait to talk about that. I have a whole section.

[Van Lathan]

Do you?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What do you have for most? 1977.

[Van Lathan]

The creatures. The fact that the creatures are not CGI, they're real. They're, you know, guys in suits is, you know, all of that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

I had Mark Hamill's Cassidy Boys.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Andy Haircut kind of vibe.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Very 1977. You could. He could have been on 20 TV shows. Ironically, he was on Eight is Enough. In the pilot, he played the oldest son, a show where Dick Van Patten had eight kids and then got out of the show so he could be in Star Wars. He's like, can you please let me out of the contract? Interesting chance to be in Star wars, but that haircut was just there for two years.

[Chris Ryan]

You know who's remaking eight Is Enough is Robert Sala. They're actually remaking that on Disney.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So good luck to him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Does he have a lot of kids?

[Chris Ryan]

He has, like eight kids. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

He looks like more than Shaker Sage.

[Bill Simmons]

Just had another one.

[Chris Ryan]

He and Philip Rivers are in Obi Wan Darth esque duel to have more children.

[Bill Simmons]

What? Stage the best. What do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

Boom. So many things. Intercalac, interconnected galactic universes. I mean, this is contemporary storytelling in Hollywood right now. ILM the creation of the first studio that is focused entirely on effects. Princess Leia as a fearless hero, not just the damsel in distress. I feel like it's huge. I'm very excited to show this movie to my daughter because I know she will be magnetized to Leia and be all about her.

[Sean Fennessey]

What if your daughter's like, damn, Greedo.

[Chris Ryan]

Could be knowing some of her interests.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't get too excited about showing any movie to your kids because they can always just watch. 10 minutes ago. Dad, this sucks.

[Van Lathan]

Can we go get ice cream?

[Chris Ryan]

That's in play, but there's a 0% chance she's not interested in Leia.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Sword fighting. Sword fighting is never not cool. This is a great choice in this movie to find a hyper, technical, forward thinking way to do sword fighting. Whether it's King Arthur or Robin Hood or the Three Musketeers or the way that it just, like, run, you know, all the samurai movies, it just runs through movie history and he finds another cool way to do sword fighting. You mentioned Harrison Ford a bunch of times. I mentioned the fast spaceships thing. That's like, that had never really been done before in a movie where it was like these Spaceships are going fast. Because he had just made American Graffiti, he loves cars, and he was like, I see the Rebel alliance as, like, hot rods, and I see the Empire as, like, cars off the line made by the major car makers. And so I want the movie to feel like hot rod culture. It's kind of like the Fast and Furious. In a lot of ways. That's like, a really smart choice that aged really well. Because now every space movie you see is fast cars.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Sean Fennessey]

Sierra the Force being a kind of forgotten religion or spiritual discipline that only, like, three zealots still practice. Like, for all the other Star wars that we have, it's like the central preoccupation of the story, and we as viewers are supposed to understand midi chlorians and how that works in this. It's like, now these three weirdos still talk about it, but for the most part, it's kind of been phased out. And it's all about industrial.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the long tip strength.

[Sean Fennessey]

There are still some guys out there.

[Chris Ryan]

Obi Wan is the demar Derosan.

[Van Lathan]

Say tomor. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Then there's just all the stuff that when you're watching and you come across it, you're like, ah, I've actually had this in the. This has been taking up brain space for 40 years. Like, the two stormtroopers who are getting distracted being like, you see the new BT16. And I'm just like, how did they just, like, throw that line in there of these two guys bullshitting with each other? Or the way that every squadron checks in? Like, Red 5 standing by. Like, I want to text you on Thursday night and be like, Red 5 standing by before triple headers.

[Chris Ryan]

Gold leader, this is Red 5.

[Sean Fennessey]

I am watching New York Detroit.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, same for what stage the best. The guy hitting his head.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which became lore. And then the stormtrooper coming in and he hits his head. And it became a thing. And instead of editing out, Lucas added a sound effect to it and it became a whole.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. On YouTube, I think I alluded to this, but just the literal beats of the trench run, which I think has elements of, like, movies like the Dam Busters and other films that Lucas was influenced by. But, like, that clearly is like, that's the best we can do with a aerial attack idea. So we're just gonna put that in Top Gun. We're gonna put that.

[Bill Simmons]

I was shocked how many movies ripped off even that. Like, I think it's the ending of four different factors.

[Sean Fennessey]

Even the hero pilot being like, I've lost my confidence, but now I've gotten it back.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, is.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is such a recurring motif.

[Bill Simmons]

So, man, what do you got?

[Van Lathan]

So the number one thing that's aged the best to me in the entire movie is Darth fucking Vader. Darth Vader goes from being a cool, mysterious villain to a cultural icon that really, now the entire franchise is oriented around. So more than anything, I got ILM on here. Death stars, period. They put a Death Star in something every two years. The lightsaber has become an iconic toy that everyone fucking has. It was. It revolutionized the sword. It was like a new sword, a new take on it. But Darth Vader, to me, has become so important, not just as a villain, but as a flawed hero. Because we get so much more of his story after this. That really, as much as this is about Luke, it becomes about him too. And now that might be the most recognizable Star wars thing that exists. Even the voice of James Earl Jones, completely recognizable.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it create the prestige TV late 90s antihero craze?

[Sean Fennessey]

Darth Vader? Is John Drapery.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there more The Darth Vader meat bone?

[Van Lathan]

Well, you know what I will say it does, though, is to me, it does have a big hand or plays a big part, should I say, in investigating the motivations of our villains. Because midway through the next movie or not midway through the next movie, at some point in Jedi, Luke is going to start thinking, not that I have to defeat this guy, but that I have to save him. And that kind of changes the trajectory of the entire three film trilogy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

How do you guys feel about introducing the villain immediately in the movie? It's like they use Darth Vader so much. It's like the opposite of the shark and Jaws. I mean, the music is there where every time you hear it, oh, it's Vader time. But he's immediately. Usually it's like you take a while right before the villain is introduced. Well, it's like the first scene of the film is he's not the villain.

[Chris Ryan]

Of the movie, though. The emperor is the villain of the movie. He's only mentioned. It seems like he is. And we come to find out. And that's part of the Lucas genius, is that he. He has it mapped out like he knows where he wants to go, and he. He's going to show us the Emperor soon if he gets to make another movie. And that he is this true force of evil. And then when you see the prequels, you're like, he actually is the true force of evil. He Is the engineer of this whole revival of the Sith mythology.

[Van Lathan]

Greatest villain in film history to me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but Palpatine Darth is more just like. He's just a tragic Shakespearean guy who's lost his way.

[Van Lathan]

And once again, you see him first because you're kind of in his story. You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, let's be honest. Vader, not like an awesome hang.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

All that breathing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They'll choke somebody out during a conference.

[Van Lathan]

Very angry.

[Sean Fennessey]

You can't smoke darts around.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Be the worst podcaster ever.

[Bill Simmons]

The breathing. Zenu chicken. What do you want?

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't like garlic.

[Craig Horlbeck]

How does he eat? Does he have to eat alone? Cuz he's got to take off the mouth.

[Van Lathan]

He's got feeding tubes. He's really fucked up. All his shit is fucked up. His eyes are burned to a crisp. His ears, his eardrums are burned to a crisp. He's got no arms.

[Bill Simmons]

Arms.

[Van Lathan]

He's got one leg. Nothing's inside it. Just like the husk of something.

[Bill Simmons]

You think he got down every once in a while or.

[Chris Ryan]

No, we don't know what happened to his manhood.

[Van Lathan]

We. Oh no, he burned off.

[Chris Ryan]

Did it burn off?

[Sean Fennessey]

Did they actually, we know that.

[Van Lathan]

I. I think, I think. I'm pretty sure that most of his opinions just burned off.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh man.

[Van Lathan]

I'm assuming. I'll tell you what though.

[Chris Ryan]

Is this like an Axel Braun kind of knowledge?

[Van Lathan]

Star wars xxs and in that one working just fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I have some woods aged the best. Including mentioned this earlier. The greatest secret probably ever kept in a movie if you knew, which I assume Lucas knew all the beats for the first three movies and he doesn't tip it off at all. But then when you watch it again, he's tipping it off in a couple spots where you're like, oh, I know. I know what you're trying to do there.

[Van Lathan]

I saw this. So when you first see the movie, I hadn't seen it before. When you first watched the movie, you go, well, he's treating Leia like shit, right? Every. You know. But like Leia has a termination order on it and there's a way to watch the movie to where Darth Vader keeps stalling.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, you could say that. Definitely. That's what I was talking about. When Tarkin shows the planet getting blown up and even though he pulls her away from Stop. Like jumping on Tarkin or whatever it is fatherly like it is. There are these moments where it's like something is telling him that although I guess he doesn't know Leia as his daughter until later.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we know he's not getting horny because he doesn't have any manhood.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks. Dead from the legs down.

[Chris Ryan]

They should do the alternate cut where Darth fucks Leia. That would be really exciting.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Jesus.

[Chris Ryan]

That's where the Game of Thrones.

[Bill Simmons]

That's gonna be someone to watch.

[Chris Ryan]

A repeat.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple more would say it's the best. Obi Wan as the ultimate mentor. I just like mentor movies.

[Van Lathan]

It's fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Every Darth Vader entrance we mentioned lightsabers, I had the wrestler Vader. Great gimmick.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, Big Van Vader.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Big Van Vader.

[Chris Ryan]

Phenomenal. One of the greatest athletes of all time. I've never seen a big man move like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Who are your best fat guy athletes, like, ever? Yeah, Like, Vader's got to be up there.

[Van Lathan]

So Reggie White is up there. Yeah, Reggie White.

[Bill Simmons]

Kevin Allen, he's up there, too. Amazing athlete.

[Chris Ryan]

Vader 2.0.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was gonna say, like, Refrigerator Perry. Kind of like, is that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Van Lathan]

Those guys are out there. But I would say move on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, great one is.

[Van Lathan]

Is way up there. But, like, as. As wrestlers go, like, Andre Giant could move around. Fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Kind of stubbier.

[Sean Fennessey]

Fat guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Earthquake and Tugboat.

[Chris Ryan]

Those guys.

[Van Lathan]

Earthquake, tugboat those guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Braun Strowman jokes about the Star wars bar we mentioned. How about the foreshadowing of the aunt and uncle? Luke's just not a farmer. He has too much of his father in him. The guy goes, that's what I'm afraid of. He knows.

[Van Lathan]

He knows.

[Bill Simmons]

Creating a distinct world of weird aliens, creatures and villains says aged the best. A lot of people have tried. Opening credits scroll co written by Brian De Palma.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Surprised they didn't try to work in some voyeurism.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's. He could have also written the scroll for the porn parody, you know, I.

[Sean Fennessey]

Mean, he basically made it less nerdy. Right?

[Van Lathan]

He was.

[Sean Fennessey]

You gotta shorten this a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he thought it was edited to four sentences.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford affair during the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

What's aged the best for Star Wars? Lord, Nobody knew until 2000.

[Van Lathan]

Age the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's just an amazing. Everyone thought they knew everything about this movie. 39 years after the movie, he was.

[Van Lathan]

33, she was 19.

[Bill Simmons]

He was married.

[Van Lathan]

You think that aged the best?

[Bill Simmons]

Here's what age the best.

[Van Lathan]

Give it.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we're all on the same team here.

[Van Lathan]

I'm with it.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's what age the best. This. They kept us hidden for four decades.

[Van Lathan]

Nobody knew.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she wrote this book and she's like, yeah, I had an affair with Harrison Ford. The whole time. People were like, well, you what?

[Chris Ryan]

But when you watch the movie, I mean, their energy is so.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It makes so much sense.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I mean, he's. She's looking at Luke. She's looking at. Yeah. You know, you can see the.

[Van Lathan]

Their chemistry is undeniable.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All the Star wars parodies all over the place and everything still going.

[Sean Fennessey]

Star wars, nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

The Bill Murray and SNL Spaceballs. And then I really like this quote from Mark Hamill because he said how he was struggling, how audiences associated him with Luke. You have that. I'm only defined by this part. And this is just who I am the rest of my life thing. And he's told Carrie Fisher about it, and she said, look, I am Princess Leah, Princess Leia. You are Luke. Get over it. And then he said, she was able to cut to the quick and see the positives. I learned so much about her. But that's a good attitude to have. Like, hey, this is the fucking lot we were getting.

[Sean Fennessey]

But you could be like, Harrison Ford is also Indiana Jones.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

It's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's. We'll take a break. Come back with more categories. This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part. Waiting on hold for an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting rooms, standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy remove.

[Van Lathan]

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[Bill Simmons]

7 virtual visits and prescriptions delivered to your door thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and AmazonOne.

[Van Lathan]

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[Bill Simmons]

Healthcare just got less painful.

[Van Lathan]

This Father's Day.

[Bill Simmons]

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[Van Lathan]

Leather notes merge with the addictive red fruits. Discover the Azara Wanted collection for Father's Day at Macy's.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, cr. Great shot. Gordo Award most cinematic shot. I have a feeling I know what your pick's gonna be, but what is it?

[Sean Fennessey]

Great shot, Gil Gilbert Taylor. Luke staring at the two stuns on Tatooine.

[Bill Simmons]

The binary sunset.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

On the Blu Ray, they have each scene titled. And that was. I just happened to pause it during that scene. And that was what the chapter was called, the Binary Sunset.

[Sean Fennessey]

Everything that I was talking about before where like, this movie allows you to fill it in, fill in the blanks. Instead of him saying like anything, instead of there being like too many characters talking at him. It's just like, this is a kid. He's looking for a purpose. He knows there's something bigger out there, this greater world. And he's just like looking off into the sunset, imagining himself getting off the planet that's the farthest from the center of the universe.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Sean in the early 2000s after another jets loss, just staring out in the Long Island Sound after the buck wonder wondering if anything good would ever happen with the jets.

[Chris Ryan]

We were doing fine in the early 2000s. We had Chad Pennington.

[Bill Simmons]

You were doing all right.

[Van Lathan]

He was a little bit.

[Sean Fennessey]

Great shot.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a few. I mean, there's one where Obi Wan is on the control panel inside the Death Star and he's like flipping levers so that they can attack it and create weakness. And it seems like the. That sort of corridor is like bottomless. And it's just a painting that this guy Harrison Ellenshaw drew. He painted this background so it looks like you're in this, you know, vast bottomless construction. And I saw like a behind the scenes image of what it looked like when they shot it versus what the final image is. And it's like astonishing. Like I. It just is. But they didn't do it in a way that was like modern technology. It's the same technology they used in like Mary Poppins. That is just amazing to look at. But there's like a million versions of stuff like that. Like the first digital effect that they ever created for the movie was when R2 and 3PO leave on the escape podcast and you see the escape pod shoot out and you see like the sprinkle of stardust basically out of that. And they, you know, like, that's just a beautiful, unforgettable image that looks almost like it's documentary or something, but it's in a science fiction movie. So there's like a bunch of them throughout the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I also really love this shot of after Obi Wan gets cut down. It's like the wide shot of Luke standing there in disbelief, even though there's already a laser battle, like a blaster battle going on, right? And then he finally, like puts his, his blaster up and start shooting.

[Bill Simmons]

He was staring at disbelief because Obi Wan chose. You had one chance.

[Sean Fennessey]

Obi Wan leaves the weak side unguarded.

[Bill Simmons]

Bang.

[Van Lathan]

Luke looking up at the two moons is.

[Sean Fennessey]

I mean, is it two moons or two suns?

[Van Lathan]

It's two moons, two suns. I think it's Two suns. It's two suns. The two suns.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a cool shot.

[Van Lathan]

It's a great shot. And also you're reminded that you're somewhere else. You're somewhere otherworldly.

[Bill Simmons]

It's important.

[Van Lathan]

But then I like. I've always been partial to the destruction of Alderaan. Just the first time we see the Death Star in action. Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, Boom. And then watching a planet be destroyed.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a good one.

[Van Lathan]

Like, so high stakes, really. Rendered well.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award for best needle drop. Does I mean Star wars bar music.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have main title or Return Home, which is basically like.

[Bill Simmons]

The main title's good. The Sean fantasy word for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm. Did you have one?

[Chris Ryan]

There are a lot. I'll stick to one. There's a Kurosawa movie called the Hidden Fortress.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That seemed like it borrowed a lot from that movie, which I've never seen, by the way.

[Chris Ryan]

It's worth checking out. I shared with Jack Sanders a side by side of several images that are lifted directly from the Hidden Fortress.

[Bill Simmons]

You're like, Jack Obi Wan. It's really like, oh, well, Jack is doing a great job wearing a brown hood.

[Chris Ryan]

Use the force.

[Sean Fennessey]

Jack should cut you down with a lightsaber.

[Chris Ryan]

But like, literally, I mean, I can show you these pictures on the laptop. Like, this is. These are moments from the Hidden Fortress in which the characters are the perfect matches. You know, Princess Yuki and Princess Leia and the droids and the two tag along characters in the movie like he is. It is a very overt lifting homage to this Kurosawa movie. And Spielberg and Lucas were obsessed with Kurosawa and he's a huge fascination for them. So without Hidden Fortress, this movie doesn't exist.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's a great criteria orgasm.

[Chris Ryan]

Hidden Fortress is available from the Criterion Collection.

[Bill Simmons]

The Chris Ryan award. Would this movie be better if a main character smoked? You didn't know I was giving this one, but yeah, I think Han could. He had a couple more reds here.

[Sean Fennessey]

Can you imagine Han with a fucking camera light behind?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, just like behind his ear, maybe he never smokes it. What would the cigarettes have been called in the. In the future?

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, that's a great one.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, what's it.

[Sean Fennessey]

What's like a. Likes Greedo lights. Greedo lights.

[Van Lathan]

I like lights.

[Bill Simmons]

The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name. There's a lot of options, man.

[Sean Fennessey]

Vader.

[Bill Simmons]

Vader is a really good name.

[Van Lathan]

Darth Vader, Han Solo. Luke Skywalker.

[Bill Simmons]

Luke Skywalker is like trying like a whiff too hard. What was he called before that?

[Chris Ryan]

Luke Starkiller.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's trying a little too hard.

[Sean Fennessey]

You think that's trying too hard? But Darth Vader is.

[Bill Simmons]

Darth Vader's just like, let's go.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think it's Darth.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, you guys want to come out tonight? I'm going out with Darth Vader. Like, who. What guy's name is Darth?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, there's somebody on Earth right now whose real name is Darth Vader. Like, there's got to be some parents who name their kids.

[Bill Simmons]

You think Darth is like just a do not Nameless.

[Van Lathan]

Darth is not his name.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I know, but I'm saying, do you think if you named your kid Darth Vader?

[Sean Fennessey]

Hit us up at the rewatchables inbox.

[Bill Simmons]

Cr. You have my flex? You have a flex category choice?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's a book about medals award for best quote kid. I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. That was my yearbook question quote.

[Chris Ryan]

Really? Wow, Beth, look at that. Yeah. A rejection of God in high school. I was just like, interesting.

[Van Lathan]

I got it all under control.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, I went to a Quaker school, so we were.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you were throwing it in their faces.

[Sean Fennessey]

No, I mean, like, there was that of God in all of us. That's the Quaker belief, you know, But I always loved that Han Solo one.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought yours would be 25 years from now. Do not ask me about Joel Embiid since high school year. That would have been amazing. The Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you got, fan?

[Van Lathan]

I couldn't think of one.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I legitimately tried to think of one.

[Sean Fennessey]

I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

I definitely have one.

[Chris Ryan]

I know, I know. You want to have the Mark Hamill conversation.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do it right now.

[Chris Ryan]

So let's have it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did you know he wanted to have it?

[Chris Ryan]

I. I've known bill for 13 years. I know how he feels about Mark Hamill.

[Van Lathan]

I. I couldn't disagree more. But I'm interested to hear the takes.

[Bill Simmons]

Not that good of an actor.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not sure if ironic is the right word. He has become a beloved actor at this stage of his career for a certain kind of fan. Because he is a famous voice actor now and he plays a lot of villains and he's in a lot of Mike Flanagan movies and things like that. He has taken on this weird late career character actor hall of fame quality that is in direct contrast to.

[Sean Fennessey]

To what he was being set up for.

[Chris Ryan]

To Luke. Yeah. In this movie, I think you can make the case that he's not great to be around because of what Chris said at the top of the conversation in Part one, which is that he's an annoying teenager.

[Sean Fennessey]

But he has to. I think I have so much respect for starting him at that point. And there's a lot of dialogue right now about the last of us and the main character and the last of us, whether she's annoying and how. But you have to start at one place and get to another, you know, And I think we're very impatient. We want everybody to be prepackaged as like, very cool. That being said, there are other people that were looked at for this role that I think it would have been maybe cooler.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm excited to talk about it. On casting what ifs. Yes, I do think when you think about how good Carrie Fisher is and how good Harrison Ford is and you would never leave this movie going, you know, it's fucking awesome. In Star wars was Mark Hamill.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, he's.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Lucas probably saw him as the system quarterback who's just like, I don't need a lot from. I have so much other stuff going on. I don't really need to shoot the moon with this character. And maybe that's. I just want him to be young and a little annoying, a little whiny, and then he can grow over the course of the movie. But I just. The fact that this was the peak of his acting career, I don't think is an accident.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I mean, I'm sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sorry. Star wars universe.

[Van Lathan]

No, it's gravy because I mean, by the time Jedi comes around, he has got a full grasp on Luke and once again, flawless three movie arc. All I'd say is if you look at where the characters are, you have two characters in Leia and Solo that are incredibly sure of themselves. Solo is the most sure of himself character maybe in movie history. And Leia is saddled with all this responsibility. She's a princess. She's a double agent for the Resistance. She knows what she's doing. Luke's performance is off kilter because he never really feels like he is where he wants to be. And so there's a tension in the Back and forth that kind of kids go through. He is young. She's the same age, his twin sister, but experience has aged her up a lot. So he's annoying because he always has questions, because he's not confident, because he's sometimes too earnest. I think in that. That Hamill plays it pretty well.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think, I'll step on one. Casting. What if, like, Kurt Russell tested for this role? Is that too much testosterone for the role?

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's a little too cool.

[Van Lathan]

He's too cool? He's too cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it like a Matthew Broderick and War Games? Kind of. Is that what Lucas.

[Sean Fennessey]

The hard part about this and the reason why I think Hamill's redeemed over the course of the first three films that they make, is that he becomes a pretty scarred, grizzled person, both because of what happens to him off screen, but also, like, the character himself is so much different when he returns to Tatooine in Jedi than he is when he leaves it. It's a really cool arc. You just have to be there. You have to really ride along with it. If you're only watching A New Hope, you're like, okay, that was my least favorite of the main three guys, for sure.

[Van Lathan]

He enters Jedi like Vader, talking about how powerful he is and choking people out. But he's.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's.

[Van Lathan]

He's got to get there, and he goes through so much. That hardens him to life.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have a hottest take, or. No, you did it.

[Sean Fennessey]

A hottest take or.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not saying. I mean, a weakling.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's that guy Porkins, who's one of the pilots who has a really tough name and gets nuked fucking instantly. It's just like, there has to be a little bit of, like, competition for places there. They're really counting on Luke. Work really hard.

[Van Lathan]

Working.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage? The worst. Look, I. I'll just start us off with this. I hate this whole Star Wars 4 New Hope. Like, this was. Star wars was like Jaws, Rocky, Godfather. Like, then we somehow decided we had to change the name. I've never really understood it. I get it, but I think it's annoying. I think it's annoying. We're, like, doing Star Wars. Which one? New Hope. It's like. Like doing Star wars the first one. It just bugs me. Anyway, what do you got? For what stage of Wars?

[Sean Fennessey]

There's, like, only two women in this movie. It's a big sausage party out in that galaxy. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I had some notes on the. On the cantina. Thought they could have snuck in a couple ladies.

[Chris Ryan]

Barely mass environment.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple lady aliens. Baby.

[Van Lathan]

We don't know what kind of cantina they're in.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, like cruising.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

You guys are assuming with your heteronormative.

[Sean Fennessey]

You think Greedo is greasing it up.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we don't know. We don't know what kind of canteen.

[Chris Ryan]

What color bandana was in the back pocket.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly. They're playing the cute little music. You know, we don't know what's going on. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. The cantina can't see the.

[Van Lathan]

We don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

That right there is why we're on video.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one. What's your best one?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I think the movie thinks that it's clear that fascism is bad. And I'm not sure that that's aged well. I think the movie is weirdly, you could be read a different way in 2025.

[Bill Simmons]

I have every moment when it's just R2D2 and C3PO is like watching Jalen Green try to run the Rockets offense. Just like, just post up Shangoon. Just come in here.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Get a jump hook from him.

[Chris Ryan]

How different do you think the rewatchables is when the NBA playoffs are on? Like. Is it?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's like mostly teams that get eliminated by the time the pod. I'm surprised we haven't had a John Halliburton reference yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Aunt Peru. Yeah, Might have been a chance maybe to put in like Ann Margaret or Natalie Wood.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, somebody really known.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's put like a little sexier. Aunt Peru.

[Chris Ryan]

I see. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait. Some sort of attachment. What? Little milfy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You trying to fuck Aunt Beru?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I just wanted a little. A little sexy woman in the whole movie. We have Aunt Beru and we have 19 year old princess.

[Van Lathan]

And by the way, one of them is giving you as much sex appeal as possible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'm just saying.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The laser bullets.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So what do they do when they hit you?

[Chris Ryan]

Do they, I assume, burn.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Burn through you.

[Chris Ryan]

I actually had in what's age, the best blasters instead of bullets as aging. Well, because it's like you can show this to really young kids.

[Sean Fennessey]

You can also just be like. You don't have to be like. How many bullets does he have? It's just like you get.

[Bill Simmons]

So the guys get hit and they just go right down. But there's no wound or anything.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, the only plug you see in this movie is the arm chopped off, Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I mean, it depends, Right. The stormtroopers are Supposed to have some.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sort of armor, but that doesn't seem to work.

[Van Lathan]

Not really.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage the worst? This is just for Sean. 20th Century Fox released 20 movies a year, and this movie became so successful that they only released seven in 1978. Just lost out on some great movies.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did they just hold the other ones or they just.

[Bill Simmons]

They were just like, let's fucking ride, Star Wars. Tell that director to fuck off.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you guys have. In what stage the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

We're not making Penitentiary 3.

[Sean Fennessey]

What stage was the amount of times in this movie where you're like, so that's how they do things in that family between Luke and Leia.

[Van Lathan]

Incest, by the way, which I'm coming back to in my hottest take. But the incest is the stuff that.

[Chris Ryan]

It never really gets over the line.

[Sean Fennessey]

She kisses him on the cheek.

[Chris Ryan]

Like it's not.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's kind of flirting with him.

[Van Lathan]

Ultimately.

[Chris Ryan]

So innocent. Wants to fuck her, but that he just doesn't know.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, could happen to anybody.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you. We're going to hold it against the guy. Although he was not able to tap into the Force in that particular respect.

[Bill Simmons]

The Force was telling him not to tap his sister. It's like, luke, no, don't do this. What's age the worst? So Marvel Comics published a Star wars comic book series which ran for 107 issues from 1977 and 1986. Why did they stop?

[Van Lathan]

There's a lot of comics out there.

[Bill Simmons]

I wonder what made them just. I feel like by the mid-80s, maybe Star wars were starting to die down a little bit. I feel like that comic book thing could have just kept going.

[Van Lathan]

But they have, like, a lot of Star Wars.

[Sean Fennessey]

There's no shortage of Star wars material.

[Bill Simmons]

I have one more big. What stage the worst. But what do you guys have anything else?

[Sean Fennessey]

Just. I don't know if this age the worst, but it aged the funniest. Disney rejecting the screenplay and then buying Lucasfilm for $4 billion.

[Chris Ryan]

Amazing.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. Nuts.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's kind of fun taking two QBs later.

[Bill Simmons]

Iger's like, I wasn't there. Didn't have it yet. Anyone takes the worst before we go.

[Van Lathan]

There'S not that much Vader in the film. I could have used 12 minutes some more Vader Lecter.

[Bill Simmons]

16 minutes. Vader 12.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably two of the best villains of the last 50 years.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think if he's on screen for much longer, you start asking if he has a penis.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, probably so maybe now we have to wait until this Moment.

[Bill Simmons]

What's Age the worst, a 1978 Johnny Carson episode. Scientist Carl Sagan went on a heater about the overwhelming whiteness of the film. And then another writer named Walter Bremond, writing for the African American newspaper New Journal and Guide, said that Darth Vader reinforces a stereotype that black is evil. This is a very white movie. I don't know if you want to do your did this movie need more black people category here.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna disappoint a lot of people. Probably okay it for. There's two things that can be true at the same time. One is that I understand. First of all, they answered the question of the film kind of sort of with Lando Carrizian coming in in the next movie. But do you think that was a.

[Bill Simmons]

Response to the Carl Sagan type stuff?

[Van Lathan]

Perhaps? Yeah, I understand that. Particularly in fantasy properties, seeing black characters is reassuring in a couple of different ways. One, it's reassuring because you don't want to think that you're living in a world where when white people fantasize that there are no black people, like that in and of itself is odd. Right. At the same time, I don't think that I'm in a huge minority when I say sometimes I don't want to think about it. And when I am watching Star wars particularly, what I want to do is think about a world where all of the handcuffs and the societal barriers that exist, all the baggage that I don't have to consider it. Okay, I understand why we have to consider it. But when I'm watching a movie, I'm really not thinking about that because I'm in another galaxy, in another world, and I'm having a good time being there.

[Bill Simmons]

Good answer.

[Chris Ryan]

It is addressed very amusingly in the movie Chasing Amy by the black comic book character who gives a speech at a Comic Con about the inherent racism of Star Wars A New Hope, which is a very, very, very funny sequence. Maybe one of the funniest things Kevin.

[Bill Simmons]

Smith's ever written Chasing Amy on the rewatchables list. A couple more small ones. We talked about the 20th anniversary when they digitally remaster everything and change some altered some stuff and how upset everybody got. And then there was a Star wars holiday special on November 17, 1978 that Lucas kind of agreed to because he wanted to keep, you know, there was really no cable rewatchable system back then, and he kind of wanted to keep the movie relevant. And it's a famous abomination. Like, there's been oral histories about it. Have you Watched it.

[Van Lathan]

I have seen it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's been taken off YouTube. Then people put it back up. It's one of those. I think Lucas spends half his time probably just getting copies taken off. Get that thing off.

[Chris Ryan]

It has become kind of a kitsch classic in some ways now.

[Van Lathan]

Beloved in a way.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the last one I talked about those early bird certificate boxes, which were empty boxes that promised the receiver they would get the figures once they'd actually been made. They sold for $16 at the time. And the actual figures arrived two months later IOUs for Christmas because they didn't the toys ready. What a debacle, honestly. Like, how much money did they lose just on 1978. Christmas.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Van, you're up. Flex category.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I actually want to use my Flex category. Time for my hottest steak. Actually.

[Sean Fennessey]

Point of order.

[Van Lathan]

This movie is a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

That's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you. Okay, so this is the deal. This movie is the trilogy. Not the movie. But the trilogy is a lot better. If Luke and Leia mistakenly in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay. The Van Lathen did this movie be more incest award.

[Van Lathan]

If Luke and Leia mistakenly in this movie. Not mistakenly, because they didn't want.

[Sean Fennessey]

And that's why he goes to Dagobah and he is.

[Van Lathan]

He actually banishes himself. He feels it like. And then think about Luke and Leia are fucking and Obi Wan is in the back.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Luke, like slow motion.

[Van Lathan]

Like Obi Wan knows. He's trying to tell Luke not to do it, but the dick is just too strong. The dark side of the dick. And Skywalker just wants it. He's gotta have it. Leia is into it. There's a connection. They don't know what the connection is. The connection is.

[Sean Fennessey]

Actually, the connection is she's the only woman in the galaxy who's ever seen a woman other than his own.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm Peru or her.

[Van Lathan]

Luke is obviously a virgin. He's asking for permission to go to Tashi station for power converters. Like 17 just fucking go like, you know what I'm saying? So if they fuck and then they have to deal with that guilt, Luke is maybe more apt to the dark side. The whole trilogy is better a little darker. If they mistakenly fuck in the Millennium.

[Chris Ryan]

Falcon quick cutaway to Darth Vader. Mid coi to There's a disturbance in the Force.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, you really went for it there.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I wonder if that inspired Game of Thrones in any way.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, I'm sure that Star wars inspired Game of Thrones, but do you think George R.R. martin was like, I want to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Star wars, but what if the brother.

[Sean Fennessey]

And sister and have a demon child.

[Bill Simmons]

That ruins the realm maybe can't be counted out. Ruffalo Hannah Rubinic Partridge overacting award.

[Sean Fennessey]

I got Chewbacca.

[Van Lathan]

He's catching so many strings on his paw.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Mark Hamill getting whiny, loud, unhappy a couple times? Oh, yeah, there's a couple scenes where Alec Guinness is like, God damn it, why did I take this movie? I'm fucking trading lines with Mark Hamill. I won an Oscar.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not such a bad pilot myself. That's why. One that stands out when he's mad at Han. And Han's like, let's have bad pilot myself.

[Bill Simmons]

Shut the fuck up, kid. Sean, do you have a Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest. Take a word.

[Chris Ryan]

I already shared one about the absolute desolation of organized religion in this country due to Star Wars. I don't know if I can do any better than that. And also I think that this is one of the best movies ever and one of the worst things that ever happened in Hollywood thing. It's kind of true. Not to side too hard with the the butthurt.

[Bill Simmons]

Could Luke Wilson have been Han Solo?

[Sean Fennessey]

I mean, we could end the category there. This would be the singularity of. If I go back and be like, this movie would have been better with.

[Bill Simmons]

Luke as a hottest thing.

[Chris Ryan]

That would have been good.

[Bill Simmons]

This is fun casting what ifs.

[Sean Fennessey]

I do have a hottest take, though, about Harrison Ford.

[Bill Simmons]

What's Harris?

[Sean Fennessey]

This is probably the coolest character in movie history, but he is a real cock blocking dickhead in this movie. And he basically like, as soon as Luke gets kind of interested in Leia, he's like, no, no, I'm interested in Leia. Luke's lost his surrogate father. Gets one TIE fighter gets a little excited and Han's like, don't get cocky. Let him just pop his collar a little bit, pump his chest, talk his. No, you gotta be like, no, it's Millennium Falcon. It's my. I'm the only one who's not dead. Fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Casting what ifs. De Palma was casting Carrie at the exact same time. And him and Lucas teamed up and they did all their casting together and looked at all the same actors. 30, 40 a day. And a bunch of the actors that they looked at for Star wars ended up in Carrie. William, William, Cat, Amy Irving, Travolta.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you think Skywalker. Glad I could be in Carrie.

[Bill Simmons]

Travolta as Luke Skywalker who was not auditioned for. That would have been interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Whoa.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wouldn't he be Han?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he would have been Luke.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he could have been an interesting Luke.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting Luke. Cat would have been an interesting Luke.

[Chris Ryan]

He would have, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I still.

[Bill Simmons]

I still have some cat stock from the late 70s, which is like the early years.

[Chris Ryan]

It might hit old.

[Bill Simmons]

So Hammo is cast over. I mean, literally all the names from this era were mentioned, but these ones seem real. Robbie Benson, William Cat, Kurt Russell and Charles Martin Smith.

[Van Lathan]

Who the is that?

[Bill Simmons]

He was the guy, right. Starman.

[Sean Fennessey]

And he's an untouchables. Is the accountant.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's the geeky guy in America.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's a ton of experts.

[Chris Ryan]

Him looking at him gives you a little bit of insight into how Lucas sees Luke though, right? He's not the coolest in town, I twerp.

[Sean Fennessey]

But you know know Andrew Stevens, the.

[Bill Simmons]

Actor Andrew Stevens, who ended up in a lot of erotic thrillers, said he and Mark Hamill were both up for an ill fated TV series called the Oregon Trail, as well as a film called Star Wars. I got the Oregon Trail. Twenty years later, it's with Shane and Tweed and some skin and Max movies.

[Chris Ryan]

There are worse fates.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Carrie Fisher cast over. Karen Allen filed that one away for Raiders. Amy Irving, who ends up in Carrie and ends up having a affair with Steven Spielberg. Cindy Williams from Laverne and Shirley who was in American Graffiti too. And then Linda Pearl, who was bouncing around and never really found the right thing. But then who knows if Jodie Foster how real this was. But she was offered the role and couldn't do it because she had movies. But she definitely was.

[Chris Ryan]

She's pretty young.

[Bill Simmons]

I almost didn't believe that one. Russell auditioned for Luke and Han Solo.

[Chris Ryan]

He was like stuck age wise between the two of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was like three years earlier. Yeah, perfect.

[Sean Fennessey]

The casting motives for Hans is Han is tough because you're like, this is every actor. But also, I can't stop thinking about Jack Nicholson as Han Solo. If they actually looked at him.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there's two where the actors claim that they turned it down. Which I think, like, if we were actors, I would just start doing this when I hit my mid-50s, be like, yeah, I turned down Hannibal Lecter. They came. Demi came to me. I just didn't want to do it. But James Kahn claimed he turned it down and Pacino claimed that he turned it down. Pacino is Han Solo. It just. That movie sucks. It's just that it's just bad casting. Who is James Kahn?

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe there's an incredible hater wig. Sudeikis era snl Saturday night. Laskas of Star wars auditions. Pacino is one of them. Kevin Spacey is one of them. Who else is in there?

[Van Lathan]

It was Richard Dreyfus.

[Bill Simmons]

Richard.

[Van Lathan]

Richard Dreyf. Dreyfus is hysterical.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, all of those are great. That's a great sketch.

[Bill Simmons]

Dreyfus. They almost used his voice for, I think C3PO or one of those in this.

[Chris Ryan]

He was in that orbit of guys. Yeah, he was in American Graffiti.

[Bill Simmons]

And then before Al Guinness was cast, the guy who starred in all the characters was asked to be Obi Wan. And he said, no, thank you. You.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he thought it would sully the legacy of samurai films that he made, which was not. Not actually true.

[Bill Simmons]

They thought about Orson Welles for Darth's voice. Decided his voice was too known because he was in a lot of commercials. Hilarious.

[Chris Ryan]

Because everybody immediately knew it was James Earl Jones, even though he was uncredited on the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Peter Mayhew and David Prowse were both tall and asked which one they wanted, Chewbacca or Darth Vader. And Mayhew wanted to play a good guy. Prowse wanted to play a bad guy. They answered up doing that. Interesting choice. Best that Guy award. This movie is 50 years old.

[Sean Fennessey]

I got Peter Cushing.

[Bill Simmons]

I had him as well. Grand Moff Tarkin.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're going to be like, that's not a. That guy. He's in all the ham movies.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Peter Cushing is famous.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. I'm just saying 50 years.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like in every.

[Bill Simmons]

But you could do 30. You could do the uncle and aunt.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the movie is fascinating because in the top six parts, you have extremely well people who are either well known or about to be really well known. And then all of the supporting players are just like British guys who are nearby, who they cast and they all had careers and they went on.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's what Andor is doing.

[Chris Ryan]

But none of them have that like, oh, yeah, it's that guy from that thing. Like, you can't even think of their second best role. Like, Peter Cushing was like the lead in 15 consecutive Hammer horror movies. So that's kind of a hard one. I don't know. I know that sometimes we can be like, this guy is actually really famous, but he was legitimately famous in England.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. All right, well, maybe the movie's too old to even know who the that guy was.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. There's probably one of the.

[Bill Simmons]

That Guys on the Enterprise, the guy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Gets choked out by Vader. Might have been in, like, a Starsky and Hutch episode we didn't see.

[Bill Simmons]

Would have been like, yeah, that's David Morse Dion Waiters award. Vader's in the movie for 12 minutes and has to win.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have a Dion Waiters award for the collective of people in the bar. Oh, all you guys, group, Dion, racist bartender, butt face. All those guys, like, together.

[Van Lathan]

You know, it's funny if you. If you want to give it to Vader. Vader's presence is so big in the movie. I. I didn't even consider Vader. That's actually probably it.

[Bill Simmons]

But I like Greedo. I just. Would be my alternate.

[Chris Ryan]

I have him on my list.

[Van Lathan]

I have CGI java that they stuck into the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Hate it.

[Van Lathan]

I hate it, hate it, hate it.

[Chris Ryan]

Hanma buki.

[Van Lathan]

I hate.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're really doing some great linguistics. Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

I've watched this movie so many times.

[Van Lathan]

I hate that they do it. But it's such a big deal to have that character in the movie for one scene. Then I went with CGI Jabba. But if Vader is eligible, it's gotta be Vader, right?

[Chris Ryan]

I think there is a case for the guy who plays Admiral Modi. The guy who gets choked when he's like, this station is now the ultimate power in the universe. He is really trying to cook in front of Vader.

[Bill Simmons]

Take blink after the liquor train recasting couch.

[Sean Fennessey]

Director city, Boston, style wise.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a Luke sky suggestion. How about Mark Harmon? Oh, coming off, playing at UCLA.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's mid-20s, athletic.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Handsome.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. I would buy him, but not Charles Martin Smith. You know what I mean? So, like, in the conception of the.

[Van Lathan]

Character, or are you talking about. No, you're talking about for Luke.

[Bill Simmons]

For Luke.

[Van Lathan]

I like Mark, but think about it like, that's a.

[Bill Simmons]

That's. I'm saying more enhancement. Athletic, but. And then kind of on Solo's corner a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Kurt Russell was like 74. Kurt Russell, I think, is the answer. Do you have a recasting coach?

[Sean Fennessey]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, we're losing Sean. He's getting tired.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'm not. I'm here.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Research. Han Solo in the original versions of the script was a large, green skinned monster with gills.

[Sean Fennessey]

He's almost more like Greedo.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't really understand what happened there. We did all the ILM stuff. Lucas, a lot of. I wouldn't say a lot of great feedback on him as a director.

[Chris Ryan]

No. Not very good with that official said.

[Bill Simmons]

Gave very little direction and just would say, like, faster or more intense.

[Sean Fennessey]

My favorite anecdote from the set of this movie is, like, in England, if you were in the middle of a shot, at the end of the day, you were given. Generally given the grace to finish your shot setup that you had. But the crew didn't dislike Lucas so much that they were always like, now we're out. It's quitting time.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the movie we did where they. Oh, Spielberg and Jaws, when he decided not to go on the last day because he was so afraid they were gonna do something terrible to him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, they're gonna throw them in the water. Right? Or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some nerdy movie stuff from this. Like when Luke says, I can't see a thing in this helmet, or whatever. He actually couldn't. And they just kind of kept it in the Chewbacca suit for some reason. The trash compactor scene, they're in the water too long, and it just started to stink and it stung for the rest of the movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

One of the coolest things to read about is the. The original rough cut of this movie, the lost cut cut, which is the editor was basically assembling something for Lucas to look at, and it winds up being very long. It's like, I don't know how. How like three hours or whatever. And apparently is a lot more Luke on Tatooine with, like, wedge hanging out, you know, like American Graffiti in space. But then Paul Hirsch and other people come in and cut it way down.

[Bill Simmons]

Mark Hamill said studio executives were unhappy that Chewbacca had no clothes and kept wanting. Kept saying that he should be wearing shorts. That would have been terrible.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Just like, what a horrible idea.

[Chris Ryan]

But he was already.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you imagine getting that nose? Wait, would you want him, like, khaki shorts?

[Sean Fennessey]

Would you want him in prefontaine short shorts? Or Jalen Weber Fab Five?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, yeah, but by going commando, he's ready to jump into the Luke and Leia sex scene pretty quickly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That'S where he would have shined. Then you would have really been swayed by Chewbacca.

[Bill Simmons]

That's all I have for half asserted research, in case you guys have anything, because the next category is Blind Call for Brazilo.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, wow, here we go. You know, he's crushing tape right now.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this will go right to voicemail, but we're about to find out. Out. Telephone number.

[Van Lathan]

Damn it. Do it again.

[Bill Simmons]

Do it again.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, hold it to the mic also.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. SE is the most excited for this of any gimmick we've ever done on a podcast. He might be going to the Laker game.

[Van Lathan]

He is definitely going. For sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He probably went early to go talk to an assistant coach.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's, like, looking at his phone right now thinking about it. Should I.

[Bill Simmons]

Telephone number. Dang.

[Van Lathan]

Jesus.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough mid lift. Tough one. Billy needed his takes. Apex Mountain, George Lucas.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably after Empire and Raiders. No, we're talking everything. I would say it's after Empire and Raiders.

[Chris Ryan]

Has anybody gotten to Apex Mountain and then just sat there forever? Yeah, you know, he never. There was never a time when people were like, no, I don't think so, George. We're not going to do that for you. Like, he could do whatever he wanted after this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I mean, but wasn't. Wasn't there. There were projects that he was trying to get off the ground that he couldn't. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Like what?

[Sean Fennessey]

Like, wasn't that World War II pilots movie one that he wanted, like, do a long time?

[Chris Ryan]

He made it. Right. Wasn't that Red Tails?

[Van Lathan]

Red Tails, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

But it, like took 20 years to get it made. Right?

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I love.

[Sean Fennessey]

He makes one movie and then he vanishes for a long time. In terms of being behind the camera.

[Van Lathan]

As a director, certainly is. Because the next three movies, to the point of people. To the issue that people had with his directing style, the next three movies, the performances are wooden. They're not very well directed. It's just a fact.

[Sean Fennessey]

But you mean the prequels.

[Van Lathan]

The prequels. The next three.

[Sean Fennessey]

Empire and Jedi.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Sean Fennessey]

As like real people.

[Van Lathan]

Like, not him.

[Bill Simmons]

And then I'm gonna say 81 range. The third one's coming. Everyone's pumped about it. Raiders comes out, it's a fucking massive hit. And him and Spielberg have vanquished, and.

[Van Lathan]

He'S the biggest guy. Yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's.

[Chris Ryan]

And he has created and owns ilm. Skywalker Ranch is opening. He's doing Skywalker. Sound like he's kind of like building his own.

[Bill Simmons]

He still has a decent beard, which hasn't, like, fucked his beard situation up.

[Van Lathan]

Yet, but you can almost. You can almost. I mean, like wine. He just gets more powerful and relevant as the. The deal as Star wars kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

You could say it's selling to Disney for 4 billion.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was about to say that that's up there.

[Bill Simmons]

The galaxy. Apex Mountain.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was gonna say there's some way to conceive of, like, the outer space sagas. Like, you know, I wouldn't say science fiction necessarily, but, like, so Sci fi movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

I have sci fi movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Galaxy movies. Apex Mountain. Own. I don't know, lore starters.

[Sean Fennessey]

This starts fictional mythologies.

[Van Lathan]

Fictional mythologies. I mean, I'm not talking about like books obviously, you know, all kinds of. But as far as movies that start incredible lore, you have the Terminator, you have the Matrix has some great lore. But this has spawned a world that's like way bigger than any.

[Sean Fennessey]

Mark Hamill. Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Mark Hamill. Definitely.

[Sean Fennessey]

Certainly Carrie Fisher.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

One, two or three for her. Like her Blues Brothers next year and then empire in 80.

[Chris Ryan]

What she chooses to do with it afterwards is so strange though. Every non Blues Brothers. Star wars movie she makes in the next eight years is like such a flop.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But again, I know she was on a lot of cocaine. I remember.

[Bill Simmons]

I think cocaine was just running rampant. Yeah, I'm sure there were some, some choices that she might have gotten talked into at about 3:30 in the morning.

[Van Lathan]

I like their lovable boy. Remember that one?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Patrick Dempsey, Extra anchovies.

[Sean Fennessey]

John.

[Van Lathan]

Never saw that one.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen it.

[Bill Simmons]

John Williams.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's almost impossible to say.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he just shatters it every time. It's like Superman's Three Years later.

[Bill Simmons]

John Williams, Apex. His face. Dropping the from your title, is it the Star wars or the Facebook?

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow. I think it's Star Wars.

[Van Lathan]

It's probably Star wars, but it's a good question though.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's Star Wars.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, I prefer Star wars to Facebook generally.

[Bill Simmons]

James Earl Jones. I'm gonna say Field of Dreams.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, I think it can't be.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when he became a beloved American treasure. Once a Field of dreams.

[Van Lathan]

Coming to America.

[Chris Ryan]

Mufasa.

[Van Lathan]

Mufasa.

[Bill Simmons]

It's somewhere early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. He just became like the coolest older actor.

[Van Lathan]

He's, he's. It seems like he's too important for a voice to be his. Apex Mountain. Moonlight. Grom.

[Sean Fennessey]

They'll come, Ray.

[Bill Simmons]

Baseball is a part of us, Ray. People will come. They won't even know. They'll give you five dollars. Harrison Ford.

[Van Lathan]

No, we just said now.

[Bill Simmons]

20Th Century Fox. Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Their profits went from 39 million to 70%. Nerds. Apex Mountain for nerds.

[Chris Ryan]

I wouldn't say that. In 1977, nerds had the most power they would ever have. I would say the nerds that got obsessed with this movie went on to take over. So.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you also had the nerd sketch on snl. Nerds are just rounding the shape, finding out they had other people.

[Van Lathan]

Revenge of the Nerds. A nerd centric movie comes out starting a nerd assance.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other apex mountain.

[Chris Ryan]

What about movie sound effects? The Academy Awards creates a special award this year for Ben Burtt who does all the droid sounds. You've got Darth Vader's breathing. You've got. My favorite sound of the movie is the sound of the TIE fighters flying. Which is like just terrifying. Every time you hear that like screeching whisper sound. It's pretty memorable.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie sounds awesome. Even now. That was when the lightsaber sounds really, really good. It's. I think we always say this with certain movies but like the. The widescreen TV better soundbar. That whole era blowing this movie up.

[Van Lathan]

Absentee fathers.

[Sean Fennessey]

This he got game.

[Van Lathan]

You know, he got gamers up there. But absentee fathers, you don't know what your son is doing. He comes around, he's trying to over you. Now you don't even know absentee dads.

[Bill Simmons]

As a movie premise.

[Van Lathan]

Well it's not a movie premise but when you look at it now I'm saying for it's probably empire then Shaquille.

[Chris Ryan]

O'Neal's biological didn't bother.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good one too. It's absentee dads. This is the greatest absentee dad story ever. Cause by the time Vader comes back to Luke, Luke is now a first round draft pick. And he wasn't before when he was just a little dude on Tatooine, he didn't give a fuck about me. Now I got the force. Now I got another dad in my life. Who cares, right? Obi Wan is. Come on. You know know I got friends. I got all of this. Now you want me. No, that's not how it works.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruise or Hanks.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have Cruz. But I think Hanks could have been a good H. Cruise.

[Bill Simmons]

For which part and what year of cruise?

[Sean Fennessey]

Cruise for Luke around Taps.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? I was going to say 1982 cruise. That's my answer. Like a Outsiders cruise.

[Van Lathan]

Like Cruz has still had the baby.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes, yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's filming losing it with Shelley Long and making Star Wars. What do you have?

[Chris Ryan]

You know who I have. It's Cruz. Okay, it's got to be Cruz. But Hanks. Hanks now as Obi Wan would be interesting.

[Sean Fennessey]

I think there was like a. Like when Hanks is like in the volunteers. I could see him being Han Solo.

[Chris Ryan]

Disagree. But okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanks Too tall Cruise Scorsese or Spielberg. Spielberg.

[Van Lathan]

Agree.

[Bill Simmons]

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

[Sean Fennessey]

I have any situation where he could say Luke, how's the peeping.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe after that sex scene, I had.

[Bill Simmons]

Him as Vader's lead counsel. Yeah, he just would have dialed it up. Go, go, Hunger Games. Craig, you have a flex category. What is it?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Can I quickly go back to Apex Mountain and ask, is this the apex mountain of Apex Mountains for a movie? Are there the most Apex mountains in any movie ever? For Star wars, if you go through it, you have, like, him half the actors. Yes. It's probably George Lucas. Holistically, I think it's villains, music, the best weapon in movie history. Secret hidden movie nuggets, sound effects, blockbuster franchises.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Craig is cooking.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is it the most apex.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's the Apex mountain of Apex Mountains.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Apex Mountain.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Craig is cooking right now. Surprised you didn't think of that.

[Bill Simmons]

The Apex guy? Yeah, I'm Craig's Obi Wan. Shawn as Jack Sanders.

[Van Lathan]

Craig is actually. Craig is actually a perfect Luke. Craig, you got a lot of Luke to you, brother.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I'm bad at acting.

[Chris Ryan]

You're a twerp.

[Bill Simmons]

I hope you're not related to this.

[Chris Ryan]

No, we just worked together.

[Bill Simmons]

Now at Chipotle. Our all new Chipotle Honey chicken brings Chipotle heat with a touch of sweet.

[Chris Ryan]

Seared smoked peppers and savory Mexican spices.

[Bill Simmons]

Blended with a hint of pure honey for a perfectly balanced sauce. All combined with fresh, tender chicken hot.

[Chris Ryan]

Off the grill, served up in your.

[Sean Fennessey]

Favorite burrito or bowl.

[Chris Ryan]

New Chipotle Honey Chicken takes heat and.

[Bill Simmons]

Sweet to a whole new level. But it's only at Chipotle for a limited time order.

[Chris Ryan]

Now in the app for pickup or delivery. Chipotle for real.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, pick a nits. It's time. Yeah, I think I'm gonna have the most fun with this because I don't really know what happens.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, because we're just gonna sit here and be bell in Ahsoka. That was explained.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna try. All right, I'll just.

[Bill Simmons]

I've already done too much R2, D2 and C3PO. Just randomly eject from their little pod thing that gets out. Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, we're doing rewatchables, okay, With CR and Sean and Van and Craig.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What's up?

[Van Lathan]

What's up, Ryan? What's up, man?

[Bill Simmons]

We're doing Star Wars. I've seen it. Any. Any off the cuff takes.

[Chris Ryan]

Luke was a dork.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, make the case.

[Van Lathan]

No friends.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that whole thing about out picking up the power converters.

[Van Lathan]

No chance.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, it looked like is, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, like he immediately is Annoying to Obi Wan.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's like, dude, this might be your only friend. Like, there's no other houses around, and.

[Van Lathan]

He'S invited you in, and he gives you a lightsaber, which I imagine those.

[Sean Fennessey]

Are pretty cool, even on Tantooine.

[Chris Ryan]

And you're just like, you know, why.

[Van Lathan]

Is he such a brat about everything?

[Chris Ryan]

And then obviously, like, watching the Princess Leia video would be the.

[Van Lathan]

Like, a guy seeing porn for the.

[Bill Simmons]

First time, and he's like, replay.

[Chris Ryan]

Replay the entire mess, you know, like, so.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I just think there's a lot of dorky stuff with him that was.

[Bill Simmons]

Just, you know, granted, I worshiped him.

[Van Lathan]

When I had the figures when I was in single digits.

[Chris Ryan]

But as I got older, I started realizing that Hannah was.

[Sean Fennessey]

Was the cool one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great take.

[Van Lathan]

Great take.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks for. Thanks for chiming in. I'll see you at the Laker game tonight.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'll be sitting next to a rod.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. I don't know if we'll ever have a blind call that work better than that.

[Chris Ryan]

Whoa. That was amazing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay, R2 and C3PO, what were you saying about them picking nits?

[Bill Simmons]

I'll just start over. Picking nits. R2D2 and C3PO. Just randomly ejecting and landing on Luke's planet right near his house.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a related one, too, which is.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that the Force just drove them to Luke's house.

[Chris Ryan]

Even before that, the Empire identifies that an escape pod has been hatched because there's no life force on it. They're like, I just let it go. Fucking blow that thing up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Should have shot this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Goes towards the theory that Darth is always kind of of like, holding the Empire back a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Because, like, there's. There's one time where they only send, like, four TIE fighters at the Millennium Falcon. It's like, you guys probably could have taken the Falcon out. We could have ended this whole thing.

[Van Lathan]

Or another theory that R2D2 is force sensitive.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What does that mean?

[Van Lathan]

That art.

[Sean Fennessey]

Are there any droids?

[Van Lathan]

Force sensitive sense that in some way there's a theory. There's a fan theory that force curious perhaps, that in some way R2D2 is force sensitive. Because there's a lot of stuff that happens, happens around R2D2 that we kind of don't explain why it works out the way the form. The way that it does, that the Force loves him, or there's some kind of connection.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what he couldn't do get a drink at the cantina. That's true. Get out of here, motherfucker.

[Sean Fennessey]

We don't say we're gagged in here.

[Bill Simmons]

How'd they get on the Death Star? Or not the Death Star. Whatever the big planet is.

[Sean Fennessey]

Which one?

[Bill Simmons]

When they come back in and the. Pulls them in. In.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no. The Death's Honest. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Tractor beam. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they just kind of let them in and they're like.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, it's a TR.

[Bill Simmons]

Here. I know they hide, but that's how bad the stormtroopers were. They're like.

[Van Lathan]

They're legendarily incompetent.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, how terrible. I don't see him.

[Van Lathan]

The whole thing doesn't work if the stormtroopers are better at their.

[Sean Fennessey]

If they can aim.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. They're legendarily in com.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the aiming, I think is enough. There's a lot of. Only Rambo first blood part two has more straight five feet away shots that just miss.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Luke. 130 people miss him from right here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. When they're on the bridge that they're trying to. They're about to swing across and the stormtroopers are just looking right at him. And Luke isn't even trying to hide against the side of the wall. He's just standing there. He's like, what's up?

[Bill Simmons]

How do you give away locations to secret wearable bases when you're in outer space?

[Sean Fennessey]

What do you mean? Like with a homing beacon thing?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's not like they had Google Earth back then.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Sean Fennessey]

But they put like little trackers on stuff. They have the computers.

[Bill Simmons]

How do they know where everything is in the galaxy?

[Van Lathan]

Who?

[Bill Simmons]

Just everybody.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like maps.

[Bill Simmons]

So if we're go here, go there.

[Van Lathan]

They've mapped the galaxy. The computers.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you map the big galaxy when it's infinite space?

[Chris Ryan]

Don't really think we're the right people to answer that question. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Isn't outer space just infinite? Infinite.

[Van Lathan]

But we're in one galaxy, though. So there's a Star wars galaxy then. Outside.

[Bill Simmons]

So is there an end of the galaxy?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Of this galaxy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Are you. You're a flat Star Wars.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying where's the end of it? It's like a force field at the end.

[Van Lathan]

There's the outer rim of the galaxy and then there's stuff outside of there that people don't really travel to.

[Bill Simmons]

So how big is the galaxy?

[Van Lathan]

Pretty big.

[Sean Fennessey]

They have hyperspace, so they can.

[Van Lathan]

They can travel around back and forth. They can travel at light space. Be.

[Bill Simmons]

I was. Didn't really Know the answers to any of those questions.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

The princess's outfit.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think it's way dirtier. By the time we get to, like, the last half hour of this movie, they're in a garbage dump thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's getting batted around like everybody else is. She's just, like, perfectly white.

[Van Lathan]

Not where I thought you were going.

[Chris Ryan]

To go with that vision of purity. What did you think he was going to say?

[Van Lathan]

I thought we were going to talk about something different about that outfit.

[Bill Simmons]

That was it.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's draping.

[Bill Simmons]

That outfit was great. Yeah. But. Yeah, I just think by the time we get to the hour 30 mark, probably dirt all over the place for her. What do you have for nitpicks?

[Chris Ryan]

I have a few. Obi Wan's memory relative to R2 or Luke Skywalker is a little dodgy there. In the beginning, he's like, I've never had any droids. I don't know. Except when you cut off all of Anakin's limbs and left him to die in episode three. And that was the last time you saw R2. So it's been a while. But, you know, you knew those droids. The biggest nitpick for me in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Whole movie is, but hold on, though, is that a nitpick? If that movie doesn't exist yet.

[Van Lathan]

But we know that we give Lucas.

[Chris Ryan]

Credit for envisioning all this other stuff. Like, we give him credit for knowing that Darth is Luke's father.

[Bill Simmons]

But for our job as the rewatchables is to treat this movie as its own movie that came out in 1977 and then remake.

[Sean Fennessey]

So you're allowed to be, like, late. His outfit would be dirtier. But he can't be like, there's like, I'm asking.

[Chris Ryan]

They're your rules. So if you want to know the answer.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I do think it's like, if we did 48 hours and now we know Kyo's the iceman from another 48 hours, which is.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So now when I watch 48 Hours, it's. Do I have to assume Kyo is the Iceman when I watch 48 Hours?

[Chris Ryan]

I think in most circumstances you're right. But because the actual world building mythology is such a credit to the movie itself that the whole idea of the movie is that. Is this larger than one movie, all encompassing mythology.

[Bill Simmons]

Hot take, though. Maybe Lucas is full of shit and he just made this movie. And then afterwards he's like, by the way, it's in Play. Yeah, it had the whole thing sketched out. Maybe he just made the one movie.

[Van Lathan]

When they gave the sides to Harrison Ford and to them. And the reveal was in there that Vader is Luke's dad. Harrison Ford said back to George Lucas, did you just make that up on the plane? Like, did you just make that up? Because they were trying to keep it a secret when they gave them the thing that that was happening. There are people who think that the fact that he had all of this stuff sketched out is actually not true. It doesn't make a difference now. But there are people who think that that's not the case.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there's. It's interesting after Lost ended and he wrote a long letter to Lindelof and Carlton Cuse being like, as somebody who once didn't know where my story is going, I really respect it, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, eh, maybe he's trying to tell us something.

[Chris Ryan]

It's possible he doesn't. There's also actual nitpicks in the story. Chris has cited a couple of them already. But throughout this movie, characters are experiencing the most traumatic thing that will ever happen to them. And then one scene later bouncing back and being like, let's do this thing. Or like partying. You know, like Leia watches her whole planet against planet Droid Luke, his aunt and uncle who raised him, or a charred remains and he's like inside of their home. And then he's going to the cantina and hanging out over and over again. You know, Obi Wan is murdered by Darth Vader and Luke gets on the Millennium Falcon is shooting down TIE fighters. Like, not a lot of emotional depth to the character development in this movie. I think he kind of fixes it in the next two movies. It's like they're much more complex.

[Sean Fennessey]

They're like, we have to have a beat here where they're like sad about this.

[Chris Ryan]

Exact. Exactly, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's like Obi Wan murdered or suicide mission.

[Van Lathan]

He gave himself to be one.

[Bill Simmons]

Or maybe he just didn't want to fight. Vader felt like he didn't want to.

[Sean Fennessey]

Shrinking from the competition.

[Van Lathan]

He's two and oh against him.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it finishes two and one finishes two one with a loud one.

[Van Lathan]

I am still, after all of these years of being a Star wars fan, unclear as to why Kenobi did it. Still unclear.

[Sean Fennessey]

Because he has to do it for Luke to fulfill his destiny, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

So that he can escape is the practical reason. And the philosophical reason is so that Luke can go on and be the torchbearer of the Jedi way.

[Van Lathan]

I guess my thing is they would have escaped anyway because all of the stormtroopers.

[Sean Fennessey]

Because they were letting them go.

[Van Lathan]

Actually, the fact that he gets cut down is what makes the stormtroopers turn around because Luke then freaks out and they go, oh, my God, they're getting away. Way. So I. I've never. I've had this conversation so many times. He didn't have to die. Like, actually, he didn't have to die.

[Bill Simmons]

The only case for it is he wants to pass the torch a LeBron to Luca and be like, this is your team now, Luca. I'm gonna have Anthony Edwards kill me with a lightsaber right now so I can give you the Lakers.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it still doesn't make sense because the best option is just kill Darth Vader. He's right there.

[Van Lathan]

There. He prob. He probably couldn't have killed.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he towered it up both.

[Chris Ryan]

Physically and maybe emotionally.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm too old.

[Van Lathan]

Been able to do it two times before. Two chances. He didn't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's good career move by Obi Wan because it's like I could either lose this fight and look like a loser or I sacrifice myself.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. So in the same vein, this was going to be my flex category. But I'm. I'm just going to do this because it's part of a picking knit. It's. It's two different categories crushed together.

[Bill Simmons]

Did I skip your flex category?

[Chris Ryan]

The George Ellerby Two Weeks to Pay award for the character who definitely should have been fired goes to Grand Moff Tarkin. Grand Moff Tarkin is informed that there's a flaw in the largest department of defense governmental investment in the history of the Empire. The enemy knows how to attack it. He insists on continuing on with making the Death Star fully operational and exposing the destruction of his beloved battle station. He loses. This is the 283 at halftime in the history of movies. This is a nightmare scenario. He should have been fired. And then follow up to that Vincent Chase award. Are we sure this character is good at their job? Are we sure the Death Star is good? Is the Death Star actually an effective way to run the Empire?

[Van Lathan]

This is a thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

It also takes a lot of energy to run it. Which we're finding out in Anthor.

[Chris Ryan]

Very expensive.

[Van Lathan]

This is the thing. It's not grand. Admiral Thrawn did not want the resources going towards.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're about to lose some of this.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm listening. I was just telling Ben to feed the dog.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, keep going. No, no, no, no. I'm not doing it.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Do it.

[Van Lathan]

It's disrespectful. No, no. Grant. No, seriously. Grand Admiral Thrawn did not want the Death Star project to go forward. He had a plan for an advanced TIE fighter that he thought would have been a much more pertinent use of the. Or appropriate use, should I say, of the Empire's resources. And that the Death Star was a waste of money and time and resources and that it would lead to their ruin. And he was right. Grand Admiral Thrawn is the blue guy with the red eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

So which. Which. Who's the Phoenix Suns in this scenario?

[Sean Fennessey]

Who?

[Chris Ryan]

Sarvo Tarkin is this Tarkin is ishpia. No question. He made the. He made the deal for Brad Beal and he got blown up on the Death Star because of it. There's no question about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Now I understand.

[Sean Fennessey]

The only picking that I really had. It's related to what Sean just said, is on the Luke side of things. With the Death Star. Luke bets the entire galaxy on a spiritual force he learned about a week ago. He's like, I'm turning off the computer. I'm going blind. It's like, dude, you were on a desert planet. You and never heard of the Force before? And now you're fucking like, oh, yeah, I'm all Jedi.

[Van Lathan]

Speaking of that, how much time on that equipment did Luke have?

[Sean Fennessey]

I know. They're like, he's a good bushfighter on the X wing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, he's just up there, full uniform with the rest of the Air Force.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's like Randy Quaid in Independence Day. He's like, I'm just getting an F16, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel prequel. Prestige TV. All Black caster, untouchable. This movie did all of them. Eventually.

[Van Lathan]

I know a lot of people in the Star wars universe. You know who you are. I've been begging for the all black Star wars movie. And let me tell you why it should be made. To piss the fucking people off on Twitter, man. Just piss them off. Like, they get mad every time there's one black person in the Star wars movie. Fucking turn. Do Star Wars Ghana. You know what I'm saying? I'm serious. They get so mad. By the way, I know people who are very high up in the Star wars thing. And I've told them, just make an all black Jedi troop. I'm talking about Star wars with a Z. Like, just that.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's just Lando and Mace Windu.

[Van Lathan]

Lando, Mace Windu. All of their people do the whole black Star wars movie. It would be dope. It would be super dope. There's a planet with nothing but white people. Why can't there be a planet with.

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing but black people? Honestly, a great idea.

[Van Lathan]

That's the only thing of all of these things. Things. It's the only thing they haven't done. Sequel's been done. Prequel's been done. Prestige has been done. The only thing they haven't been done. The true frontier that they haven't gone to, that's Star Trek. Is the all black cast.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Henry Hill, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview Long legs or will fit Wilford Brinley in the firm.

[Sean Fennessey]

I have an addition to this category.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is this movie with Bill Simmons podcasting about it on his Sunday night pod?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

So, Leonard, I actually watched the lightsaber battles. And ever since Obi Wan got brought down, Luke Skywalker has an edge. And guess What? He's just 19. He still has so many potatoes.

[Chris Ryan]

That's good.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Ryan, Ruko.

[Sean Fennessey]

You do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Luke's feeling the Force.

[Chris Ryan]

Is he going to get it?

[Van Lathan]

You better.

[Sean Fennessey]

I see you, Mr. Skywalker.

[Bill Simmons]

Just one Oscar. Who gets. Gets it?

[Sean Fennessey]

George, I guess.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Best picture sound. Williams.

[Van Lathan]

Williams.

[Sean Fennessey]

You're saying just one? I'm going to say, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The sound is amazing in this movie. I would go sound. All right. Probably unanswerable questions. Did they intentionally make C3PO look like an Oscar?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, no. He's very closely modeled after the robot Metropolis. So I think it's just.

[Bill Simmons]

Just asking.

[Chris Ryan]

Did they make him that gold to remind people of Oscar? Maybe. Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Why didn't Chewbacca have genitalia?

[Chris Ryan]

We don't know.

[Van Lathan]

He doesn't.

[Chris Ryan]

He might be a hider.

[Van Lathan]

He's a Wookiee. And so there are many, many Wookies.

[Sean Fennessey]

Did we just cross over for the amount of genitalia on Star wars characters.

[Bill Simmons]

We'Re talking about for at least three, four.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well, we hit two.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Does he have a butthole?

[Van Lathan]

What are we doing?

[Chris Ryan]

Very interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait a minute. Like, what kind of creature are we talking about here?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, I would imagine.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he a Ken dog?

[Sean Fennessey]

I imagine he's like a giant.

[Bill Simmons]

Does he go to the bathroom?

[Van Lathan]

But it's very. It's very.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Chewbacca go to the bathroom.

[Chris Ryan]

He was inspired by Lucas's Malamute, Indiana.

[Sean Fennessey]

His dog.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And that dog has, you know, a lot of fur. That is like that stringy fur, it. But you know, he's like. He's like a dog.

[Bill Simmons]

So it goes to the bathroom?

[Van Lathan]

I would say so, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessey]

Do you wish there were more times in Star wars where someone was like, I gotta take a piss.

[Bill Simmons]

Halloween 1978. Most people dressed the same. Probably the most. I'm trying to think of another Halloween.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where there was more people in the exact same costume.

[Van Lathan]

Stone.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm probably like Michael Jackson. Thriller.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He.

[Van Lathan]

Michael.

[Chris Ryan]

You guys wearing open collared white shirts?

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. All right, Van. Top five, Sci Fi Woman hall of Fame.

[Van Lathan]

O. Easy. Sarah Connor.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. Night one or two?

[Van Lathan]

Two.

[Chris Ryan]

Two.

[Bill Simmons]

I came across time for you. Sarah.

[Van Lathan]

Sarah. Princess Leia. I'm gonna throw a new addition in there. Zendaya.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

You never really got a. She's kind of always wearing that still. Still suit, you know? I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

You're not into it.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I love Zendaya, but like, it's not Princess Leia's costuming.

[Van Lathan]

So. So when we say sci fi, are we talking about like the entire realm of sci fi?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. So do Marvel movies count as well?

[Bill Simmons]

Do they?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think so, but feel free to cook.

[Van Lathan]

Marvel movies count. I got Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

That's an all time white girl right there.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't count.

[Sean Fennessey]

Doesn't count.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry I throw it at you.

[Sean Fennessey]

Daryl Hannah from Blade Runner, Maybe.

[Van Lathan]

Perhaps.

[Chris Ryan]

What about Carrie Anne Moss? Matrix.

[Van Lathan]

She's in there. I will.

[Bill Simmons]

TV shows count, so you can go Aaron Gray, late 70s, if I was. Incredible Battle of Network Stars performances. Go. Look those up on YouTube.

[Van Lathan]

If I was gonna do Blade Runner, though, I'd actually do Sean Young.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I do Sean.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't make Craig mad, though. Sean Young, he didn't see it.

[Van Lathan]

You don't know Sean Young.

[Bill Simmons]

No. No way out.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I know who Sean Young is.

[Bill Simmons]

Wasn't in. Thumbs down from Craig.

[Van Lathan]

Thumbs down to Sean.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was introduced to Sean Young and Ace Ventura. Kind of hard to go backwards from.

[Van Lathan]

There, but I gotta take one out because obviously Einhorn.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Einhorn is Finkel.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh. Iron is Finkle.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chris Ryan]

Horn.

[Van Lathan]

But Ellen Ripley.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Ellen Ripley.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good one. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

[Sean Fennessey]

I would want a lightsaber.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. For sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Which you can only have one lightsaber. Who you take Taken. Obi.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'll take Darth's. Because, like, as far as I know, Darth's Lightsaber, you know, is the one that works, was the one that takes down Obi Wan.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the red one. I know, yeah. Sean Greo's corpse. No, Han's blaster would be cool.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Han's blasters would be very cool. But it's Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make the case for the thing?

[Van Lathan]

Wait, no, the rest.

[Chris Ryan]

Red one.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he has.

[Van Lathan]

Luke has Anakin sky. Well, no, no, no. So I would still take Anakin Skywalker.

[Bill Simmons]

I think lightsaber is the answer. But we. We ban cars from this category. The thing Luke's driving around, whatever that thing is.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that is that thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Just to have that in your garage.

[Sean Fennessey]

Take that tooling around.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that from Star Wars?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, Luke's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a digitally added sequence from when they reissued the movie and the. Whatever it was, late night 90s that shows, like, the digital version of the speeder. That is so much less cool, you know, that shows that, like, moving around in the open world as opposed to the way that they shot it in the movie. And it's just the most perfect example of, like, we just don't need this. Like, the speeder looks so awesome in the practical version of the movie anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

The Darth mask, I think, would be the other one. I'm trying to think what thing from this movie would go for the most money. Gotta be the lightsaber category. So Luke's. Luke's lightsaber. The game worn Luke's.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Well, the three lightsabers in the movie, there's Vader's, there's Obi Wan's, which we don't really know what happens to. And I'm assuming Vader takes it for a trophy or something.

[Bill Simmons]

I felt like Luke could have grabbed.

[Sean Fennessey]

That before he crossed that whole he's getting shot at.

[Chris Ryan]

He, like, steps on it right when he checks on. Yeah. He's kicking his club when he kicks his club.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So it's there. So I'm assuming Vader takes it as a trophy. Whatever. But then there's the other one. Which lightsaber would you. You take of all the three if you had to have a piece of memory?

[Bill Simmons]

I want Luke's.

[Chris Ryan]

I always like Mace Windu's purple lightsaber.

[Van Lathan]

It's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Finack aware of best life lesson. May the Force be with you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, may the Force be with you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the Force will be with you. Chris Ryan. Trust the Force. We'll always have good tv. Shows Chris Ryan. Trust the force.

[Van Lathan]

I got another one, though.

[Bill Simmons]

The bear is going to be really good. Season 4. Trust.

[Sean Fennessey]

Reach out with your feelings for the bear.

[Bill Simmons]

You and Andy Greenwald will have good podcasts. Trust it. Trust it. My son. You have a life lesson.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Raise your kids.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Sean Fennessey]

Don't let Uncle Owen raise your kid.

[Van Lathan]

Don't let Uncle Owen raise your kids. Your kids will come back and they'll take over your empire.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice. Is it Sith or is it Empire?

[Sean Fennessey]

It's Rogue One.

[Van Lathan]

I have Denis Villanous, Dune.

[Sean Fennessey]

The first one or the second one?

[Van Lathan]

The first one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Sand Planet, kind of same thing. I like to go outside of the pantheon with the double feature.

[Chris Ryan]

What about American Graffiti?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, go full Lucas.

[Van Lathan]

That's good. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Raiders would be interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be good too.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Sean Fennessey]

Harrison Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

George Lucas.

[Bill Simmons]

You're really going Harrison Ford. George Lucas made $4 billion from this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I'm saying Harrison Ford keeps this movie attached to humanity.

[Bill Simmons]

Infinity.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's a.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's a robot and a twerp acting against each other. If you don't have. He's the coolest guy, like in one of the coolest movie characters ever, Sean Lucas.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, George Lucas's net worth is estimated to be.

[Van Lathan]

He's got $9 billion.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what they estimated at. Yeah, so that's.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

[Chris Ryan]

It wouldn't have been cool for four, but he was making money money on Star wars also. He already knew the 80s, 90s and 2000s, but that's.

[Sean Fennessey]

Is that why you think he won the movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he won the movie because he created the most indelible franchise in Hollywood history. But he also made bank on it too.

[Sean Fennessey]

What do you think?

[Van Lathan]

Scotty Lucas. The. That's a compelling argument for. For Harrison Ford, but I don't know that anyone in this industry has won any single movie as much as George Lucas has won this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

I was just trying to be interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make the case for Aunt Beru?

[Chris Ryan]

Would have been better if you went last rather than first.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

One line out and milfy.

[Van Lathan]

Bill.

[Sean Fennessey]

Way to go, man.

[Van Lathan]

Craig, What a.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on. Craig's up. What do you got?

[Sean Fennessey]

Craig?

[Chris Ryan]

Craigsy. Star Wars.

[Van Lathan]

Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

Star Wars 1977. I don't know.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Do any of you guys. Any of you guys big video game people? I'm like. I'm not really, but. Van.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I like to play video games.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Thinking back to the apex mountains. Also, I love the Star Wars.

[Sean Fennessey]

The Star wars video games on Star.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I would Say, would you say this is the best video games to come off of an original movie ever?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, so Bond has some good video games, but they don't compare to the Star Wars.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Star wars games are awesome because you.

[Van Lathan]

Have so many Jedi, Fallen Order. You have Battle for.

[Sean Fennessey]

You have the original arcade game where you were in the TIE Fighter. Right.

[Van Lathan]

Then you have the one for Super Nintendo. Super Star Wars. Like, probably, yeah. That came from a movie. Yeah, you probably. Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Anyway, good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Slow, Decent. Fast.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, yeah, it's a little slow. I mean, there's just, like, pace just picked up as we moved closer to now, and that's just what it is. The first 20 minutes is a little slow. But what I took away watching it again. I think I probably saw him when I was 15. Of course you like them, but now I just appreciate them so more when I was 15. I'm not thinking about. I mean, I'm comparing it to all the other movies I saw when I was 15, which, like, probably had better special effects or whatever. Looking back now, the originality is kind of staggering. I kind of can't fathom that level of originality working now. Like, it's just unbelievable that this is just. I know he had influences, but everybody does like him. Just pulling this out of his ass, putting it on the screen. Everything's brand new, the world building. Honestly, the closest thing I can think of is John Wick. And it's probably why John Wick worked because it's, like, just new and everybody could kind of, like, get into the world and like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And it's why it's the newest action franchise that has, like, spawned spinoffs and is still around and people like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Sinners.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, maybe Sinners.

[Bill Simmons]

Sinners took us in our world, but Terminator did, too. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Last time. One of the few times where I felt the same way in a movie that I felt the first time I saw Star wars was the Matrix. The Matrix was a time where I.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Was like, wow, that's a good one.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, they have thought this through completely. That sense of, like, I'm in great hands right now, but it's very rare. It's very rare.

[Sean Fennessey]

I also think it's cool.

[Chris Ryan]

That's.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think it's cool that George Lucas was like, I just wanted to make a movie that was fun. He's like, if you have to take one word away from this movie, it's just fun. I know. He's like, the movie's trying to say something, but I don't think the theme are, I Don't know. I don't know that much.

[Van Lathan]

It's. It's interesting. It essentially, like we talk about Star wars and I talked to a friend about it. He goes, essentially, the movie is about, like, fathers and sons. It's very. It's not really. It's a complicated lore, but not a complicated story.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like, not a complicated movie too. It's just like, this is a really. This is a great chase, good versus evil feeling.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Same with Indiana Jones. Like, I don't really know what Indiana Jones is about, but Indiana Jones, and it's my favorite movie. It's just like a feeling. And it's.

[Van Lathan]

I.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Growing up, the Disney rides obviously were around when I saw these movies, so I kind of immediately made that connection, which is probably different for you guys because they made them as. As over. Over time. But like, I associate these movies with, like, that feeling of being at Disneyland.

[Chris Ryan]

To be honest, Star Tours is not a great ride. And yet I would wait in line for hours to go on it over and over and over again at Disneyland.

[Van Lathan]

Star Tours I like, but I'll tell you one thing, Thing. That is a fantastic ride. And it was one of the best experiences I've had as an adult, man. Not doing commercials, but. Have you been on Rise of the Resistance in.

[Chris Ryan]

In Galaxy's Edge? Shit, yeah. That's cool.

[Van Lathan]

You're in Star Wars, Bill. You're in it. They got stormtroopers everywhere. Okay. You're. You're inside of Star Wars. We all went as a ringer verse fan, man.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We gotta do a ringer day at Disneyland.

[Van Lathan]

We did one.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be fun.

[Van Lathan]

It was. It was.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, there's a hotel. They closed, but they.

[Van Lathan]

They closed. When we did Star Wars Celebration a couple of years ago. They had like a place where just the media could go. And me and Mal and the Midnight Boys, we wrote it a bunch of times. Phenomenal. Phenomenal.

[Bill Simmons]

How'd we do?

[Sean Fennessey]

I think you did a great job.

[Craig Horlbeck]

About three and a half.

[Sean Fennessey]

You brought really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that the longest one we've done?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No. Boogie and Pulp both went over four.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that true?

[Chris Ryan]

That's what Craig was telling us.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This was pretty good. I wasn't planning for.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, it's the long marathon, like unplanned two parter.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Good job, Bill. You. I'm proud of you, man.

[Bill Simmons]

I really enjoyed it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Are more coming?

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like I missed out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. This has been the big question.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Are we going to do more?

[Chris Ryan]

Is will you do Empire? Will you do.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess we'll have to let the people decide. The nerds are going to get mad about Chewbacca. That's. I'm going to take some for that. That. What else?

[Van Lathan]

The questions that you're asking, by the way, about Chewbacca. We've asked. We just asked them in, like, 92.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. And asked them in maybe a more polite way. How could this guy go to the bathroom?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It'd be funny. It'd be funny to do space balls next.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, guys.

[Van Lathan]

Thanks, bro, thanks.