‘The Blair Witch Project’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rewatchables – ‘The Blair Witch Project’ with Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Release Date: October 1, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rewatchables, hosted by Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan from The Ringer, the duo delves deep into the iconic horror film, The Blair Witch Project. They explore the film's creation, its groundbreaking marketing strategy, personal experiences with the movie, and its lasting impact on the horror genre.

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Background of The Blair Witch Project

Bill Simmons sets the stage by recounting the film’s inception: “In October of 1994, three student filmmakers arrived in Burkettsville, Maryland to interview locals about the legend of the Blair Witch” ([02:32]). He emphasizes the film's low budget and ambitious approach, highlighting its transition from a student project to a mainstream phenomenon.

Marketing and Perception

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the film’s revolutionary marketing. Bill notes, “The right movie at the right time and the right way of making a movie and the right way of marketing a movie” ([04:28]). They discuss how the movie’s website and accompanying documentary, The Curse of the Blair Witch, created a believable backstory that blurred the lines between fiction and reality. Chris adds, “It was an extraordinarily effective horror film... a reminder that what really scares us is the stuff we can't see” ([34:25]).

Personal Experiences and Memorable Scenes

Both hosts share their personal encounters with the film. Chris reminisces about watching the premiere in Boston’s Kendall Square, expressing how pervasive and unsettling the experience was: “I was on the theater and we just thought we watched, like, a snuff film” ([07:44]). Bill recalls watching Blair Witch during a trip to rural Oregon and observing the lasting fear it instilled: “I actually found this movie quite palatable at 7:30am” ([17:04]).

They highlight memorable scenes that have cemented the film's legacy. Chris emphasizes Heather’s confessional as “the best idea anyone's ever had for a closing part of a horror movie” ([43:03]), while Bill points to the eerie repetition of the same log in the woods as a source of deep-seated fear ([38:47]).

Influence on the Found Footage Genre

Bill and Chris discuss how The Blair Witch Project essentially birthed the found footage genre. Bill states, “It’s lightning in a bottle” ([04:28]), comparing its influence to that of later franchises like Paranormal Activity. They explore how the film captured the early days of the internet, allowing audiences to feel part of the narrative through viral marketing and online discussions.

The Actors and Their Aftermath

The podcast touches on the unintended consequences for the actors involved. Chris laments, “The three actors got fuck jobbed” ([58:27]), explaining how the film’s success didn’t translate into sustained careers for Heather Donahue, Joshua Leonard, and Michael C. Williams. Bill acknowledges the personal toll, stating, “This has become even a bigger thing now because... their lives got turned upside down” ([52:07]).

Criticisms and Weaknesses

Despite its acclaim, the hosts identify notable flaws. They critique the film’s technical limitations, such as “big fat handheld cameras” and outdated equipment that sometimes detracts from the viewing experience ([56:38]). Additionally, they discuss narrative inconsistencies, like the seemingly endless loop in the woods, which remains an “unanswerable question” ([70:22]).

Legacy and Conclusion

Concluding the discussion, Bill expresses a sense of awe for the film’s enduring legacy: “It's hard... there will probably be nothing like this that I could experience or did experience in my life” ([83:49]). Chris agrees, noting the difficulty in replicating the unique phenomenon The Blair Witch Project created. They both acknowledge that while sequels and reboots have attempted to capture its magic, none have matched the original’s impact.

Bill wraps up with a reflection on the film’s place in horror history, urging listeners to appreciate its innovative spirit and the way it continues to influence the genre: “I'm jealous I couldn't experience the phenomenon” ([83:50]).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Bill Simmons: “The right movie at the right time and the right way of making a movie and the right way of marketing a movie” ([04:28]).

• Chris Ryan: “It was an extraordinarily effective horror film... a reminder that what really scares us is the stuff we can't see” ([34:25]).

• Bill Simmons: “It’s lightning in a bottle” ([04:28]).

• Chris Ryan: “Heather’s confessional is the best idea anyone's ever had for a closing part of a horror movie” ([43:03]).

• Bill Simmons: “This is the single most frightening movie theater experience I ever had” ([14:06]).

• Chris Ryan: “Don’t go in the fucking woods” ([82:54]).

• Bill Simmons: “I'm jealous I couldn't experience the phenomenon” ([83:49]).

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Conclusion

This episode of The Rewatchables offers an in-depth exploration of The Blair Witch Project, dissecting its creation, impact, and the complex legacy it left behind. Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan provide a balanced view, celebrating the film’s innovations while acknowledging its imperfections, making the episode a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Hey y'all. Cyrrit Sohi from the Ringer here. And I wanted to let you guys know about a new show that I'm hosting, the Ringer WNBA Show. We're going to be talking about all the biggest personalities breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings that make the w so fascinating. Featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us on the brand new Ringer WNBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Still making that, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

Slow horses, slow horses. Industry. I know you've gotten caught up recently.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'm a big Rishi guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I know you are my guy.

[Chris Ryan]

When he when he lost his mind gambling for a night, it brought me back to the late 90s.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't understand this guy. Bill said million dollar picks. He said the eagles were lock.

[Chris Ryan]

You could also see her in the big picture. Maybe on some basketball podcasts this fall. Who knows?

[Bill Simmons]

You never know. I was on the ringer fantasy football pod, Bill. You can't stop me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, my name is Bill Simmons. We are about to do the weirdest movie I think we've ever done in the rewatchables. The Blair Witch Project is next.

[Bill Simmons]

In October of 1994, three student filmmakers arrived in Burkettsville, Maryland to interview locals about the legend of the Blair Witch.

[Chris Ryan]

All I'm saying is that you got us lost.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I know we're not lost.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, you knew that yesterday too.

[Bill Simmons]

And you knew that twice going more or less this way. One year later their footage was found.

[Chris Ryan]

But the three were never seen again.

[Bill Simmons]

I ain't gonna die, Paul.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, C.R. i don't know where to start, but I'm gonna start here. Most ripped off movie gimmicks of the last 50 years. I made a list. Superman with Christopher Reeve, comic book heroes. Just creates this whole we'll do a big thing. We'll get Gene Hackman is the villain and we'll blow it out and we'll promote the shit out of it. And we get that becomes the blueprint. 48 hours, buddy cop. These guys don't like each other. There's going to be some jokes at the end. They'll get along. People rip that off for the next 40 plus years. Die Hard becomes Die Hard in a blank. Yeah, Fatal Attraction blank from hell Halloween. There's a boogeyman killer. He's unstoppable. Going to go to this camp and kill people. When Harry Met Sally. The modern rom com. Oh, these two, they're not meant to be together.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, maybe they are.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, they made it at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

The will they, won't they?

[Chris Ryan]

Animal House, the body comedy. These just guys are just trying to get laid. Let's do that for 10 years. And then the Blair Witch Project, which was made for like 10 bucks and created this whole new form of horror called found footage that is still going 25 years later and is one of the most influential movies. Not only the last 25 years, but you could really argue the last 50. It makes no sense. And I know you like this movie because you wanted to do it, but how do you even explain this?

[Bill Simmons]

The right movie at the right time and the right way of making a movie and the right way of marketing a movie and just capturing the power of the nascent Internet and allowing people to feel like they were participating in the movie in a way and that might be its greatest legacy now, like even this many years on. I think there are some films that have done found footage better, have been more creative with found footage. Obviously they're got the Paranormal Activity franchise that has gone on to probably more financial success than the Blair Witch franchise. But in terms of being like the right movie for the baby steps of the Internet is like this was lightning in a bottle.

[Chris Ryan]

Horror movies are effectively dead. Except for there's that new post screen model with. I know he did last summer, Halloween, H2O. It's usually, like, kids in high school and they're the faculty. So we're doing those that, like Jason and Freddy Krueger. They're on their last legs. And there had been no innovation at all. All right, I normally we bring him in at the end of the podcast, but I have to bring Craig Corl back in now, our producer. Oh, yeah, you're coming in now, Craig, this movie comes out in January 1999. When you were a young pup. I think you were, like, five years old, four years old, whatever. Do you believe that people actually thought this was a real movie and all these people died in 1999? That that was a thing that really happened?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. And I think if you look at the amount of conspiracies that are going on now when we have the Internet everywhere, I think it's even more believable that people back then seeing this footage would have thought this was real. So I think 100%.

[Chris Ryan]

So the backstory, they put out a website. When did they put the website out? Cr.

[Bill Simmons]

The website and the doc came out before. So this movie premiered at Sundance in January and then came out in theaters in the summer. But the website and the Curse of the Blair Witch sci fi series or documentary came out, like, a month before that. So there was. There was this huge buzz coming out of the Internet and off of the doc.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So I'm on the Internet. Right. In my sports column back then, I think I might have still been aol. Only at this point, the Internet. Who is our guy from Heat? What was his name? The Internet was all out there.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got to know where to grab it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, got to grab it. And they do this Blair Witch website, and it's so early in the Internet, people are like, what the fuck is this? They found these videotapes in the woods of these people getting murdered, and now this is gonna be the movie of this. So I was dating my future wife for six, seven months. Not as fun as the Craig and Liz love story, but a good love story nonetheless, with some fun stories behind it. But so we go to this, and it's still early in the Internet where we don't know if it's real or it's not real. And we go opening night because I'm a huge horror guy and I'm super excited.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I stop you right there? Just out of curiosity, which theater in Boston?

[Chris Ryan]

Kendall Square in Cambridge.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill, we might have been at the same screening, man. Oh, shit. Yeah. I was at Kendall Square over the Weekend.

[Chris Ryan]

It's very possible. We went that Friday night and the movie ended, and people. One of the few times in my life, people just sitting in their seats and we were so freaked out, Craig. We were on the theater and we just thought we watched, like, a snuff film.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And there was no way to research it after the fact. It was not. Like, now you'd be like, oh, I'm going to Google it. Oh, they did this. Oh, here's. And that bothers. Like, we literally thought it was real. Did you think it was real? Cr.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, I. Well, okay. I think. I thought it was 80%. Like, I didn't think that they would be showing us a snuff film. But the 20% that was like, maybe they just did was much more passionate than the 80% that was cynical about it, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like, I knew better, but I was like, God, that was convincing. But wait, so was the marketing of this movie, this was. This is real, or did they just kind of not. Not only was the marketing of the film, this is real, the actors were not part of the promotion of the film, like, very specifically, until after it had become a phenomenon. That's when they started appear on, like, the Tonight show. And they dropped the pretense that it was. That it was a real, like, this was found footage. But leading up into the release, there was a, like, a pretty plausible sensation that this was like, these people who had gone off into the woods and they found their footage and like, yeah, like, one out of every five person, maybe one out of every three people you talk to be like, yeah, it's not real. Like, they just did this whole elaborate scheme to show, like, the background of the story. But it was pretty easy to buy into this because, like, Bill was saying, you basically were on dial up. You were probably using, like, university computers or whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

You only knew your friends that you were friends with. It's not like you could check in with whoever.

[Bill Simmons]

And crucially, Craig, like, because of that and because of, like, the era that it was, most people probably came from an area of the country that had something like this. And it might have been bullshit, but I had. You know, we have the Pine Barrens in the Philadelphia area. It's like the New Jersey devil. I'm sure Bill had something in Massachusetts and New England.

[Chris Ryan]

I have it right now in the third floor of my house.

[Bill Simmons]

But everybody had, like, the local town myth, a suburban legend, basically. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So the guy who played Mike in the movie, there's a really good oral history about this movie that came out, I think, in the 20 15th or 20th anniversary. And he said, the Internet, Michael C. Williams, the guy who played Mike, the Internet was new. So if you think back, some of the things you read on the Internet, you go, oh, that must be true. I saw it on the Internet. Just like when newspapers came out, you believed what you read. And they figured out a way to market this movie where it was just, I didn't have my conspiracy. Bill did not exist in 1999, except for the JFK assassination. So you saw this, you're like, wow, I want to see that found footage. People were murdered in the woods.

[Bill Simmons]

It might be the most 1999 movie ever made, because if it came out any year after this, it would be less and less believable.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, so think about in 1993, the Crying Game came out. And the whole thing about that was, there's a secret. And you just like, don't tell me the secret. I don't want to know. And this secret turned out to be the J. Davidson character. Then Usual Suspects, same thing. Then Sixth Sense, which was the same year as this movie. Same thing. In your generation, is that possible to keep a secret with a movie like that? I would say it's impossible.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think of an example of anything related to that. Even if it's not in movies, a.

[Chris Ryan]

TV show, you can keep the series finale of an episode secret, but other than that, I definitely not. Something like this where it's like, people thought it was a snuff film.

[Bill Simmons]

Marketing has changed so much now that I would say, if anything, they are, like, so hyper aware when they have a twist that they almost like when I get PR emails about TV shows, like, for instance, I don't want to, I guess, spoil it for the people who haven't watched Succession, but something happens in the last season of Succession. We were not told explicitly that that happened, but we were told that the episode that it happened in was very significant and that we should, like, please not spoil it for other people. And so immediately you're like, well, what could it be, right? Game of Thrones was the last property that, like, effectively. But that was a very interesting experience because you had, like, an entire strand of the audience that actually did know what was coming. And so they were actually, I found to be the. One of the great examples of, like, honestly, audience generosity was people like Mal and Jason who were like, yeah, obviously, like, I know Red Wedding is coming, but I wouldn't want to spoil that for anybody. And it was awesome. That way.

[Chris Ryan]

Hmm. Well, I'll tell you this, it's one of the most masterful marketing campaigns I can ever remember. It got me to go opening night. The mystery around it, then when you knew it happened, leaving the theater, still not knowing that night and still not really having a way to research it. And then, I don't know. CR when did we kind of finally realize this was real? They started doing interviews, like, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Weeks after, as it became weeks after.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. Like three, four or five weeks later. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think it was very. It wasn' like this, like, we have to find Heather. You know, I mean, like, it was, I think, actually also like, fairly shortly.

[Chris Ryan]

After CR Led, though. We have to find Heather. He was in the woods in Baltimore.

[Bill Simmons]

They had to keep the actress in like a. Like a room. But they did.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they did.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, they were. They got mad at Josh Leonard for being in an indie movie because they were like, you're going to screw up the premise of our film if people can see you in like, some nascent, like, early mumble core movie soon. You know, now we just have like, Mr. Beast buries himself alive for seven days and you tune in to see if he makes it.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the closest thing, right? Well, the other piece of this is in the movie theater. It was so much more terrifying. There's no way to recreate it in your house. You could turn all the lights off in your house. You could make it as quiet as possible. But when you're in a movie theater with a 50 foot screen and it's dead silent and people are terrified and you get hit the last 15 minutes of that movie, it was. I was about as scared as I. I can't remember being more scared in a movie theater. Can you, Chris? No.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the single most frightening movie theater experience I ever had. So the two. The two scariest movies I've ever seen are this and Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I saw this. Like, that's another one. Yeah, in Kendall Square opening night. All it was was like, what's. Is this like a documentary? Like, have you guys heard about this movie? Like, because even with Sundance Stu, like, it's not like we were reading movieline.com or some. It wasn't like I was like on the net every day reading about movie news and having things explained to me. So you're just kind of like, this sounds like it's going to be a really big deal. Let's go see it. Opening night. I saw this one and then Texas Chainsaw. I watched at like, one in the morning in an empty house. Like, moving into a house in Mission Hill in Boston. And I'd never seen it before. And I don't think I slept for, like, the rest of the week.

[Chris Ryan]

My dad. There was this place. God damn. It was somewhere in Boston. I can't remember what part of Boston. And they would show movies and they had food and there would be older movies, right? And it was a little like the model for what, Alamo.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, pre Alamo. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, pre, early Alamo. And you could go. And we went and we saw a couple movies there, but one of the ones we saw was Texas Chainsaw Massacre. So I was probably like, 13, 14. I can't believe I made him go to movies like this. But. But it was the same thing, like, at the end of that. And I just knew it was scary and I just knew the guy holding the chainsaw at the end. And I know anything else. And same thing where you left and you're like, discombobulated. It was so freaky. And I don't know if there's another even Halloween, which is a masterpiece.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's so stylized, though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it was more cool. You're like, oh, man, I like what they did. Like, it wasn't like this, where you're like, oh, my God, this guy's out there. We got to get him. So I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Last year, or maybe it was. Yeah, about last year, I went on a trip to, like, kind of rural Oregon. It was me and my wife and then her friend and her friend's family. And she has, like, three daughters. And two of the daughters, like, they were 14 and 12 at the time or something like that. And we watched Blair Witch for the first time.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was like, late at night. I think we started at, like, 11. And it was like, really, like, kind of a spooky watching experience. And at first the girls were like, this is cringe. This is so fake. This is so fake. And then as it gets going and.

[Chris Ryan]

As they switch goes off in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie, when they discover, like, the dolls and when Josh disappears and all this stuff is happening, you could see them on their phones Googling like, is this real? Did they die? And I was like, it still works. It still works. Like, after all these years, it can still freak people out if it catches them unaware.

[Chris Ryan]

So, Craig, you watched it this morning for the first time, but you knew the premise, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Because he's a coward and he didn't watch it at night. I watched it at 7:30am this morning. No, I. To be honest, I kind of. I mean, I generally knew it was like kids going into the woods in search of something, you know, supernatural. That was it.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, so we'll spoil you. Should we do this at the end? But did it work for you?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's hard.

[Chris Ryan]

25 years of found footage movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he actually. I mean, you're not into scary movies, though. I'm not, but I can understand why this was such a big deal in the moment.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what?

[Bill Simmons]

I actually found this movie quite palatable at 7:30am yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Good. Good luck having a nice strong cup of coffee.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Josh.

[Chris Ryan]

Josh.

[Bill Simmons]

To be honest, I think the horror actually was a little milder than I expected.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but you didn't set the mood right. I mean, 7:30 in the morning, you want to watch this at night in a dark place.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a 10pm start, man. Did not want that to be my nightcap.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just saying.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they don't really show a lot in this movie. What would Mike Tomlin say about this? You know, Mike's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Tomlin.

[Bill Simmons]

Tomlin's playing in the preseason. He's doing two a day still. That's not my style for horror movies.

[Chris Ryan]

Tomlin's just grinding out a 13 to 6 win with a horror movie and that's it.

[Bill Simmons]

But, yeah, to be honest, I was surprised at how not scary this was to me, I think we're desensitized now and things are so heightened.

[Chris Ryan]

He's not wrong. Because as they kept innovating on the found footage thing, people did better versions of this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they added special effects. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the charm of this movie is just the story behind it, which we're going to tell.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think it's also very specific, probably for people who saw it in the theater, but also people around me and Bill's age where, like, the three characters are so relatable and so, like, you just knew people like that when you were in college or, like, out of college.

[Chris Ryan]

Definitely knew the girl there. Was that she existed a hundred different ways.

[Bill Simmons]

Josh's car. You knew guys like Mike who lived with his mom. Everybody's smoking cigarettes, everybody's eating shit, like, and it still haunts me a little bit, like, how much it feels like. I think that was part of the appeal is, like, the idea that it could happen to you because it was happening to people like you.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Did this movie lose its shine for you guys after you saw it the first time? Like, would you consider. No. It only improves over the years for me, really.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I had a cycle with it. I really liked it as a rewatchable. And then I didn't because it's really like, especially first 30 minutes, once you've seen it a few times, not really that rewatchable. And then there's like a 20 minute section where people are just screaming. But the ending's amazing. But then my son, Ben Simmons got into it and then it had another life with my kids.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's watching him watch it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was just like, even last night I was watching it and he's like, I'm gonna come in for the last 25. Like, it was like. It's just, you know, they know how to do it. So that guy, Dan Myrick, who was written by Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez, Eduardo Sanchez, who also directed and edited the whole thing, Myrick said it was kind of, to our surprise, embraced wholly by the press. And we fooled, if you want to call it that, a large swath of the public who thought it was real. We do interviews where people asked if the story was real. And I'd say, didn't you see the COVID of Time magazine? Didn't you see the story in USA Today? It's obviously a movie. Right. But if you wanted to believe it was real, it allowed you to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I was kind of saying. There was a part of me that was like, how amazing is this that we have that this last bit of magic still exists where that might have been the case. Now you can feel ethically dubious for watching three people get murdered by a witch. But I was into it in 1999.

[Chris Ryan]

Totally.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I tell you a little bit? Like, I do want to ask. Because you were talking about the things that were so influential and tropes and kinds of movies, and there's like kind of nascent. There's sort of some found footage stuff that comes before Blair Witch. Like there's this movie, the Last Broadcast. There's a couple of things out there.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a movie, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like the early Cannibal. Yeah. But like, I think that it ultimately, what this movie is a huge influence is for me as well. Especially over the last day or so, like going through the documentary and the website that they had put up and Heather's journals that they published and all this stuff is. It kind of feels like where Lost came from, where you could watch Lost and just kind of like watch it superficially and be like, I wonder if they're going to get off the island. I wonder why there's a polar bear here. Or you could lose yourself in reading about Lost and read these super long recaps and go to all the message boards and find out all the biblical illusions in it. And I think that was the coolest thing, is that like, the reason why Blair Witch remained so present in my life is because, like, every few years there would be like some cool, like, archived piece from, from the original press run or from the original sort of viral marketing campaign. And even now, like, the Reddit board is pretty good. You look at the Blair Witch Reddit board, I'm like, some good content on this thing, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, YouTube really helped. All of a sudden, the deleted scenes around there. There was a DVD that had a bunch of stuff. There's a Blu Ray that had a bunch of stuff. There's like the scene when they all drink together in the hotel. Yeah, it's like a super long version of that. You're right. It. It created this little weird world around the witch and this backstory of these murders and people were into it. And I really feel. There's three things that I feel really 1990s to me. One is that you could get away with this movie and make people think it was real. Two was just people with cameras. Yeah, I mean, I identify. I was the guy with the camera in college, you know, videotaping dumb shit. But just the concept of, yeah, let's go here and I'll bring the camera and we'll just kind of fuck around and shoot stuff. We did that all through the 90s. I don't know if now people have iPhones. I don't know if it works the same way. So that's the second piece. And then the third piece was what you said earlier about you just kind of knew people like that they're very specific to the 90s. These people somehow don't make sense in like 2015 or 2024. And I don't really know why. I can't explain it.

[Bill Simmons]

It felt very much like, you know, if you weren't in New York at NYU Film school or in Southern California going to film school out there, but you were interested in movies and you were interested in making movies. Like, this was a very.

[Chris Ryan]

And you had to think outside the box.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was also a very relatable setup that there's this woman, Heather, who's like kind of like really wants to be a doc maker, but then like, this guy Josh is like, I just want to kind of be involved in this, but I don't really Have a ton of hustle. So I'm just kind of like. I'm just like the cool guy who smokes and has a girlfriend and stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Are we going to have enough cigarettes for the trip?

[Bill Simmons]

And then, like, they obviously get Mike from basically like a bulletin board ad, you know, like, and. And that kind of way of meeting people in the way of where you kind of had to band together just really, really makes a lot of sense watching still now.

[Chris Ryan]

And the other 90s piece is just where documentaries were at that point. So, like, Paradise Laos came out a little while earlier and became a little mini phenomenon on HBO with Mark Byers and the Missing Kids there being multiple sequels. But documentaries were. The 1.0 version of documentaries really started with Hoop Dreams started to take off where it could be like, I took my camera, I went here, I filmed stuff, I edited it into something. Here it is. And that really feels perfect for that era to the way they did this, because this is what you did. The cameras were a little too big. You had to lug them around. You didn't even know if there was going to be any upside or benefit to it. And you just kind of film shit and hoped you captured something. So I don't. I just don't know what this looks like now. It'd be complete. They don't. They'd all have iPhones. They would have researched the area completely. They would have been doing TikTok or Instagram reels as they're doing it.

[Bill Simmons]

They would have Starlink gps. They would never be lost, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I mean, I think that. I mean, even the idea of getting lost in America. I mean, she makes a couple of jokes about how it can't happen anymore and the Maryland woods aren't that bad. And obviously, like, something more mystical is at play here rather than just them walking in a circle. But yeah, there's that. There's the idea that. I mean, one thing that's so interesting about the way that they perform this movie is that you mentioned how everybody had cameras back then, or there was always, like, someone who had a video camera, but everybody was really aware that they were on camera.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So now I feel, like, performative, but not really.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I feel like people are filming with iPhones now and nobody even really notices that they're on camera. But back then it was like all of a sudden, everybody kind of had to address the camera and pretend like they were in a documentary when they were being filmed. So there's something very specific about that.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll take a quick Break. A lot more to discuss with this movie. Want to shop Walmart Black Friday deals first Walmart plus members get early access.

[Bill Simmons]

To our hottest deals.

[Chris Ryan]

Join now and get 50% off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart plus see [e-mail].

[Bill Simmons]

This is the sound of your ride home with dad after he caught you vaping.

[Chris Ryan]

Awkward, isn't it? Most vapes contain seriously addictive levels of nicotine and disappointment. Know the real cost of vapes brought.

[Bill Simmons]

To you by the fda.

[Chris Ryan]

Coming back. So Myrick and Sanchez, they were film students. They created. They decided basically, let's make a horror movie for us. It was like their equivalent of when we did Calderon's revenge on rewatchables. It was a one for us.

[Bill Simmons]

In some ways we should have dedicated that episode to those Blair Witch filmmakers.

[Chris Ryan]

We should have.

[Bill Simmons]

My apologies. Really following their spirit.

[Chris Ryan]

So they were talking about stuff that scared them. They rented a bunch of documentary style type movies and they said the Legend of Boggy Creek, Ancient Astronauts. And they were like, could this work? They created this whole Blair Witch thing. They had a 35 page outline. But they were, they said they were more influenced by that Leonard Nimoy show in Search of which by the way, a show that I really liked where I'd be like this week, Bigfoot, does it exist? And Leonard Nimoy would be creepy. And they said if there was footage of kids in the woods and then people analyzed it after. But it was way more of a there's some footage and here's the documentary of everybody analyzing what happened. And then Sanchez said it started becoming obvious. The footage in the woods was the best part. The producer, Greg Hale's like, it's so obvious now that that was the movie. But at the time, you know, it took us a while to get there and they basically just event. They kept editing it and they eventually figured out somebody had the voila moment of wait a second, what if the entire movie is the found footage and then that's it. And that 25 years later still works.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess in the way you're telling it. It's like the Curse of the Blair Witch, which was this documentary that the same filmmakers made and put up on the Sci Fi Network on cable was kind of what their original idea for the Blair Witch Project was.

[Chris Ryan]

That was like half of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And they were going to send these actors out and so it's worth mentioning like, so they basically hire these actors saying like a fully improvised movie shooting in a heavily wooded area for about a week. They get Josh Leonard and Heather Donahue and you know, they bring these people on, they give them an outline that's like 30 pages long. That's essentially like you have to, this has to happen, you have to be here, you have to do this. But these people are shooting it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And originally they were like we're just going to do a bunch of like 16 millimeter scenes out in the woods and that'll be part of this documentary that we're also making. And then the camcorder got added in eventually as like a character almost in the movie. And so. Yeah, I mean like it's a crazy what if is like what if they never made this decision.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean the Curse of the Blair Witch is an, is arguably like creepier than the movie in some ways. But when you're. But like the movie you can just take or leave. You don't need to know a lot about Burkittsville to watch the film.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's, it's 44 minutes. The curse of Blair Witch. You can find it on YouTube. It's easy to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's on Tubi actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And it's just a blown out version of the first 12 minutes of the movie. So they create. It's a. The legend is Rustin Parr, a hermit, lived deep in the forest, abducted six children. But then we get the. I think the fishermen give us the crucial point that this guy murdered all the kids in the basement, but he would murder them two at a time, put one person in the corner, murder the other one, which is just fucking creepy and weird. Another one was about a kid went missing in 1888. So they had that. There's an old woman whose feet never touched the ground. So they're planting all the seeds. In the beginning of the movie you say kind of have to remember as you're watching it the first time like okay, I got this, I got this because it's all going to come back.

[Bill Simmons]

But here's, here's the thing. You can watch this movie as I did probably most of the, most of my life and not really even be paying that close attention to the first part because Legends.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The point is, is that the woods are cursed, that there's something out there that's bad and like it's over the last couple hundred years made people do these murderous acts. I mean there's like a whole thing with this woman named Ellie Kedward who is, you know, this Salem Witch esque character who gets convicted to die of exposure. But Then apparently haunts the woods. She's manipulating Rustin Parr. Like, there's all this stuff you can read about it, but really what you need to know is that these woods are evil and these people wandered into them.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you an evil woods guy in general or just in this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Not a fan. Not a fan of evil woods at all. Really spooks me.

[Chris Ryan]

You're a big hiking guy, though.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that's one of the things I hate about Los Angeles is people, like, want to go for a walk. I'm like, not really. You know.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought you liked the Portland. Like, you like doing, like, being outdoors. Doing outdoors.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't mind being in the outdoors.

[Chris Ryan]

This movie, it's moon hiking for you.

[Bill Simmons]

I like using the outdoors as a recreational area, not as, like, an aimless walking area.

[Chris Ryan]

I love when we find little cr. Tidbits. Hiking sucks. My column. The other thing they did was they. So they have these actors and they decide they're going to fuck with them. And the actors know they're being fucked with, but they also don't 100% know they're being fucked with. And they're not being fed a lot and they're getting sleepy. And the. Greg Hill, the producer, said he'd been through survivor school when he was in the army. And I thought we could run the actors through a storytelling survivor school obstacle course where they just had the GPSes in the woods. But then we could fuck with them and then we would have their reactions to what was happening. And there's stuff that I didn't. I knew a lot of this stuff, but there was doing the research for this pod. Like, I didn't realize there were times when they were just fucking with the tent and the actors really didn't know what was happening because none of this was in the outline.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Wasn't there, like, also, like, something about, like, one night they had the art director of the movie, like, run around wearing, like, all white and, like, ran and, like, ran through the night and, like, just to freak them out.

[Chris Ryan]

Now in the2020s, I feel like multiple lawsuits and violations probably would have happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, right.

[Chris Ryan]

I think so. I was triggered on my camping trip for the student film I was shooting. That guy Mike, played by Michael C. Williams. He said the only direction they gave him was they wanted me to be the one who was more scared. They didn't tell me anything. They didn't want me to change who I was. The whole idea was, be as close to yourself as possible. But you're the super scared one. So it was cool. They had that. Then they're building the website at the same time and that became a destination thing. It goes to Sundance, becomes that guy. Joshua Leonard says that was the first year I heard the term buzz film. All of a sudden we were the buzz film. And Sundance, they had like, they had to schedule extra screenings because people were going nuts for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then that was it. So this movie, the budget was probably around $500,000, maybe a little bit higher. Different estimates, it made almost $250 million. It was the 10th biggest movie of 1999. Apparently has the best budget to revenue ratio of any movie ever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was wondering if it was this or paranormal or what it, what it might have been. But this is, it's astonishing. It's like a personal fortune. I'm even wondering what did $500,000 go towards? I. I don't even. I didn't. I thought it was even less than that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, there was. They had to. They had to do the Gilligan's island theme song, like stupid stuff like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, they had to pay for that.

[Chris Ryan]

They paid the art, actors.

[Bill Simmons]

The budget is between 207 50. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's still a hell of a return.

[Chris Ryan]

Roger Ebert. Do you know the answer to this one?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't, I didn't want to look it up. What is it? Our guy?

[Chris Ryan]

What do you. What do you think? Raj gave this?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he thought it was stupid.

[Chris Ryan]

Four stars from Raj. Our guy. Yeah. He said it was an extraordinarily effective horror film. At a time when digital techniques can show us almost anything. The Blair Witch Project is a reminder that what really scares us is the stuff we can't see. The noise in the dark is almost always scarier than what makes the noise in the dark. Welcome to my life in my house.

[Bill Simmons]

What was that? Do you want to talk about the attic? Do you want to talk about your ghost?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going to end up like Josh. I'm just going to disappear one day and my wife's just going to get my shirt with my teeth.

[Bill Simmons]

She's got a Celtics T shirt.

[Chris Ryan]

With your teeth? Yeah, with my teeth, my tongue and a finger. It's like Bill's gone. He's not coming back. Let's do most rewatchable scene which is brought to you by Paramount. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount. That means a mountain of heart pounding action blockbusters like Top Gun, Maverick, Mission Impossible, Fallout and Gladiator. Three movies we've done on the rewatchables. A mountain of Jump scares with thrillers like Scream 6, Smile in a Quiet Place, Day One. And A Mountain of fun for the kiddos with family favorites like if Paw Patrol, the Movie Dora, the Lost City of Gold, and BLAIR Witch Project 2. No, I'm kidding. Discover something new every week on Paramount Plus. Okay, cr. We've done. I think this is our 357th movie. Maybe more something like that. Impossible to come up with rewatchable scenes. I. I just listed a couple. I like when they're in the hotel room getting drunk. I like when they get awakened in the middle of the night in the fucked up forest after the day. The same night she got knocked over the rocks. And it's like, oh, this is bad. The second time they get woken up when he's like, I don't think it's a deer, man. And their pile of rocks outside the tent. And she's like, those weren't out here yesterday.

[Bill Simmons]

The three piles for the three campers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we're obviously not wanted out here. Let's get the out. Heather loses the map, leading to Mike revealing. He dumped the map.

[Bill Simmons]

Fuck off me, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you out of your mind?

[Bill Simmons]

Not out of my mind. The maps are doing shit.

[Chris Ryan]

Not to you, but I do what the. That map says. Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

You are a. I'm sorry you're a. And if we wasn't doing all day, if we get hurt or if we.

[Chris Ryan]

Die out here, it's your fucking, fucking fault.

[Bill Simmons]

It is your.

[Chris Ryan]

They find the crazy part of the forest this fun. This is no redneck. No redneck is this creative.

[Bill Simmons]

It's so funny. That's such a good line.

[Chris Ryan]

Woke up screaming in the middle of the night is another one. First night after Josh disappears, so they said. Apparently Josh didn't know he was done.

[Bill Simmons]

Hmm.

[Chris Ryan]

And the initial plan was to have Mike disappear. And it was just Heather and Josh left. There's a lot of stuff in the research that Heather and Josh, it was not a great eight days for them as a tandem.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

And there was a lot of arguing, and they made the decision, let's pull Josh out instead of Mike. So Josh said he got a note. When everybody goes to bed tonight, stay awake. Once you're sure they're asleep, leave the tent. If anyone wakes up, tell them you're gonna take a piss. So he waited, got up, walked out of the tent, and he said, ed and Dan and Greg, they're waiting for me with flashlights. And they said, you're dead, dude. And they took me to a really nice meal at Denny's. And the other two woke up the next morning and Josh was gone. And that was all like, authentic reactions where they're like, where the is Josh?

[Bill Simmons]

And I too, in 1999 was like, Man, I'd love a real nice me.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, where were you? I don't know why they didn't invite you.

[Bill Simmons]

When do we do Grand Slam breakfast hour?

[Chris Ryan]

Heather finds the finger, tongue and tooth wrapped in Josh's shirt. That's, I guess, the scene. Heather's confessional is the most famous scene from that movie. And then the ending. So it's either the confessional or the. When they find the house and the whole ending. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So I want to do. I do want to give a special shout out to one scene that you. I don't think you mentioned that then created. And this is pretty rare. It's got to be a really good horror movie for it to create a phobia or an anxiety for you.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

When they come across the same log.

[Chris Ryan]

No, that's the tree we cross.

[Bill Simmons]

That tree is down. That's the same one. Oh, God, no. You gotta be kidding me.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a joke. No, this is not funny, Mike. Just please stop. Please, please stop.

[Bill Simmons]

Please stop. Please stop. No, no, Mike. It's not the same log. It's not the same log. Mike, look.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not. It is. Open your eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not the same log. Is that the same after they've been walking for 11 hours and Deja vu with the log. You've got to be kidding me. And she's just like, it's not the same log. It's not the same log. And like, she's just like, I can't. Fuck. They walked for 10 hours in a giant circle or, you know, through another dimension. I am petrified of that idea of getting, like, lost in the woods and being like, we're walking, we're walking straight and we come across the same thing that we've started at. That is actually like, weirdly, like a huge phobia for me. But the most rewatchable scene is just the last 15 minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do rewatchable scenes. Today's most rewatchable scene is brought to you by Paramount Plus. I was kidding. I was making believe we went backwards. I thought you would get that joke.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not the same AD read. It can't be the same AD read.

[Chris Ryan]

Where are we? Where's Craig? Where's Craig? So what's your answer?

[Bill Simmons]

The last 15 minutes? Like, just the house?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, the confessional is great. It became the most kind of talking Point was the commercial. It was the most parody thing in the movie. It's the most memorable scene.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a. There's.

[Chris Ryan]

The ending is the best part of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a school of. Of online discourse that suggests that the video that Heather leaves is, like, her confessing to, like, being partly responsible for it. Which. I never read it that way, but I thought it was, as the years go on, people read this movie in all these different ways.

[Chris Ryan]

Partly responsible for what?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, if you read the Heather's.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that you're a Blair Witch head. I'm just. I'm just a guy, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just a guy who reads Heather Donahue's journals. So I gotta ask. Heather's journals are. Give you, like, a different sense of the character. She. She definitely has a lot more awareness about the dangers of what they're about to do.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And a lot more ambition about, like, confronting those dangers. And I think people, like, deduce from it that maybe she, like, drove them there or a certain point in the experience became possessed by the Blair Witch. I don't. I don't read it that way, but it is out there.

[Chris Ryan]

It's out there.

[Bill Simmons]

It's out there. I just grabbed this stuff and bring it, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

She says it's my fault. It was my project. I insisted. I insisted on everything. I insisted we walk south. Everything had to be my way. This is where we've ended up. And it's all because of me that we're here now. Hungry, cold and hunted. We're gonna die out here. The ending.

[Bill Simmons]

Josh.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm getting downstairs. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

I hear him downstairs. Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

Josh. Josh? Josh, is that you down there? Josh?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Mike in the corner is just the best. It's so good. It's one of the best ideas anyone's ever had for a closing part of a horror movie. And what's great about it is some people don't even get it when they're watching it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Because you have to pay attention to the other part of the movie. I got it right away.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sure you remember this, like, in the theater. Even if we weren't in the same screening, like, 350 people being like, what the fuck?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, because she's shrieking, screaming for a minute, and that was unsettling. And then that shot of him just facing the other way, and I was like, oh, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then thump. It's as good as it gets.

[Bill Simmons]

Cut to black. No epilogue. No. Like, authorities were never able to find their bot. Is just like, bang, this is it. That's. And that contributes to the idea that it is, like, found footage, because it's kind of like, oh, there's no, like, cool happy ending where somebody came in and was like, but don't worry, because Josh was later found. You know, it's. It's. Yeah, it's dark.

[Chris Ryan]

I gave up on Josh when I saw the finger tooth in his tongue. But other people might have been holding on. But, yeah, it's brilliant. The house is brilliant. I mean, if you're going to nitpick, you're almost like, we could have maybe done 15 more minutes in the house of the five or three, or find the house before. Or. The house is such a good character. I wonder if they wasted it just having it at the tail end.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sure there's lots of practical considerations that went into that where it's like, could they. With the equipment that they had, could they effectively shoot an interior at night? And what was the. The deal with, like, running up and down the stairs? But, I mean, that's the thing is, like, this was made by the people that you see on the screen.

[Chris Ryan]

What was the movie set in Russia? That was a found footage movie with, like, the creepy building, and it was near the Chernobyl. It was like, Chernobyl. Chernobyl tapes.

[Bill Simmons]

Something like Chernobyl Diaries.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen that scary one, too. Yeah. I think the found footage, I. I watch all of them. Most of them are bad.

[Bill Simmons]

It doesn't matter.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I saw the first Paranormal Activity in the theater. I think I was on a. I was at my book tour in San Diego. I want to say that. I want to say I saw it in San Diego for some reason. Same thing. It's fucking. When these found footage things go off the rail in the last 50 minutes, it's terrifying. Anyway, that was today's most rewatchable scene, brought to you by Paramount. From action blockbusters to thrillers to favorites for the whole family, find something new to watch every week. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount. Plus plans start at $7.99 a month. Start streaming now. Let's take one more break.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by. Skinny Pop Popcorn. Perfectly popped, endlessly delicious. Oh, so light and crunchy. Skinny Pop Original Popcorn is the snack you've been searching for. Made with just three simple ingredients. Popcorn kernels, sunflower oil, and salt. Snacking never felt or tasted so good. Perfectly popped, endlessly delicious. Give yourself permission to snack and pick up Skinny Pop original Popcorn today.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, cr. What is the most 1999 thing about this movie, other than stuff we've already discussed? Would you go with Heather's 1999 look, all the things we talked about, The Topper. Do you have a specific thing we haven't mentioned yet? Because I have one thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Josh's car is very 1999. Even if it's not a 1999 car, it's like the kind of car that, like, a broke college student would be driving in 1999. It's like a Celica. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's cigarette butts, like, between the seats.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just. Even the way Josh talks, like, when he's just like, I want mashed potatoes and a piece of ass. It just is a very 99.

[Chris Ryan]

The guy that at 1 in the morning, he's smoking cigs and he's like, I think Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain. And you're like, dude, can we go to bed? Here's the most 1999 thing. One of the video cameras used by the actors, they bought it at Circuit City.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Filming was completed, and then they returned the camera for a refund to help their budget. They bought the camera at Circuit City. There's no more 1999 fact about this movie than that.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like every story I hear about, you know, people making their first feature and, like, maxing out two credit cards to pay for it. It always is like, oh, and then I made sex, Lies and videotape. So it all worked out great.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to know the oral history of dudes who are like, I still have a poor credit score because I tried. I tried to finance my Terminator sequel with a Discover card.

[Chris Ryan]

That was us with the Take Hunter one.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right. We.

[Chris Ryan]

We funded it with whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Best Buy with Marriott Bonvoy points.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. What stage the best horror movies where the kids are clearly asking for it. Don't go in the fucking woods. You knocked over the rock pile. Like, why? What do you. Oh. Oh, cool. Look at this. Let's stay here today. I think it's an Indian burial ground. Get the fuck out. What are you doing? All of them deserve to die. All of them.

[Bill Simmons]

They just should have been like, Honestly, it should have been like, we're not going further than, like, 15 minutes from the car.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, like, it's just like, this can be like. We can get some scenery. We are not going in the woods.

[Chris Ryan]

The Curse of the Blair Witch. Documentation for woods age. The best. I'm glad.

[Bill Simmons]

How. I got a question for you. This is. I just got to ask this because we were talking about going into the woods. Like, how soon after starting the adventure do you start questioning Heather's navigation skills?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, immediately.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Worst hike partner, ever. Also not hard to figure out. The sun's going that way. It came up this way, it's going that way.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's how she was. She was navigating, and she wasn't really using that old map.

[Chris Ryan]

What saves the best. Making one victim stand in the corner with their back to the second murder. I don't know how you come up with something that creepy, but congrats, because that's about as creepy as it gets.

[Bill Simmons]

You admire the story.

[Chris Ryan]

Little Bobby, you stand over there. I'm gonna kill. I'm gonna kill your brother. Like, what is a creepier horror movie gimmick than that?

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Chris Ryan]

Standing in the corner. Don't move. You just have to stand that way. And you're just listening to the other person get murdered.

[Bill Simmons]

It's up there. It's up there with, like, the girl from the ring as, like, one of the scariest, like, single, like, seconds in a movie. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Or Poltergeist girl. Go. Just being in the tv.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

We've had some good horror stuff. So another one you mentioned this. The walking around for the same day and ending up in the same spot, just as a concept is pretty brilliant. Kudos to them for that. They all signed a release granting the production permission to, quote, mess with your head. So when you watch this movie, the tent attack and a couple other scenes, like, they're genuinely don't know what's going on because they don't know if where they are is, like, a haunted place.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I also think what's one of the things that's aged the best is the group dynamic in relation to how fear, like, jumps from person to person. It's pretty rare that in any group, all three people are feeling like the same thing at once. So Mike will be freaking out, and Heather will be kind of angry at him, but Josh will be trying to make peace. Josh is freaking out, and Heather's angry at him, and Mike's trying to make peace. Or Mike and Josh are going crazy and Heather's trying to make peace. It's like they always have, like, this. This really, like, like, precise internal dynamic to their group. It's really, really well observed.

[Chris Ryan]

No music in this movie other than.

[Bill Simmons]

Except for Josh's car rock songs.

[Chris Ryan]

But once we get in the woods, it's just. We're silent the whole time. Which is a great choice. The trailer was really good for this. And so was the poster. Both super effective.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, the poster was also like a missing poster of Heather, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then, you know, some of the stuff, the actors and there's. And we'll talk about the Wood stage. The worst piece of it too. But how this movie became, like, a huge phenomenon and how dumbfounded they were by it is really interesting. Just like the concept of becoming famous overnight in this completely improbable way.

[Bill Simmons]

And also, like a early doors, like, early stages of people not being able to separate the actor from the performance and starting to get, like, mad at Heather and, like, how she felt like she. And like, people. People really invading their privacy in a fucked up way.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Like Heather said, I had this overarching wish that the movie would have just made 7 million. That would have been a really great sweet spot. I was just in this position where I was the face of this thing that kind of blew up and I was utterly unprotected. Josh said to completely honest. So much of an experience like that happens at a blackout. When your life changes that drastically. You don't even understand. Understand how crazy you are until you have the opportunity to hindsight. It was a tidal wave. It's really like one of. I don't know if there's been another movie quite like that. You've had movies with actors. You've had movies where actors could then have a career after the movie. Like Swingers. Be like, oh, Vince Vaughn, what's his next movie gonna be? These three were all supposed to be dead after the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, they kind of had to play dead like a dog even after the movie came out. And then it's like, okay, everybody kind of knows now. And then their careers were done.

[Bill Simmons]

There was also, like, that feeling with the indie movie scene. It wouldn't. You couldn't do this on Netflix, is what. I guess what I'm trying to say is you couldn't be like, oh, this is on. Like, Netflix would immediately feel, like, liable for, like, misleading people or for whatever, like their overnight sensation. It wasn't like what happens with, like, Stranger Things where nobody knows who those kids are, and then the next weekend they're like, super world famous.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

This was like, legit people being like, so are these people dead? Are they alive? And then when they're not dead, people.

[Chris Ryan]

Were kind of mad at them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, like a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Weird. Any other what stage the best?

[Bill Simmons]

No, we covered a bunch of it. It was just like, capturing that moment when handheld video is really Starting to blossom in social circles. And just how well drawn the characters are and just how knowable they are.

[Chris Ryan]

The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most gifable moment is the same winner as the Great shot Gorder award for most cinematic shot. Heather's Confessional. They just go for it. It's so creepy. How close. Like we're like inside her nostrils basically. And there's like spit and phlegm and her tears and she's just so scared. It's really smart how they do it. Why, what would you have.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, the only competitor would be Mike standing against the wall. But that's like three frames of shot. Like the Heather thing is the correct answer.

[Chris Ryan]

Den of Thieves Benihan award for scene stealing location has to be the evil house at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Which house for sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Unbelievable. Big Kuna Burger where best use of food and drink. Are cigarettes eligible for this category?

[Bill Simmons]

They are. And I would like to shout out Mike for finding the couple of Lucy's at the bottom of his pack.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's.

[Bill Simmons]

That's true. Dedication to smoking cigarettes. It's just like I know I have one somewhere here.

[Chris Ryan]

The Butcher's Girlfriend Award. Weak link of the film. Other than the motion stuff, which I think has gotten better over the years. In 1999 we just weren't used to that. But I think now there's been so many things like that your eyes kind of get used to it. It's just really hard for me to accept how they got this lost in the woods. So what you said about how they entered a different dimension almost has to be the answer. Or they're in. They're possessed by some sort of spirit that's just telling them to do this and they don't realize it.

[Bill Simmons]

I go along with the idea that for the first third of the hike, Heather is kind of being loosey goosey with navigating and is really what she actually wants is to come across some really fucked up stuff. She doesn't care about getting back in time. Yeah. But in her journal she's like, we have to get home. We have to get home. We have to get home. I think once Josh accidentally knocks over the pile of rocks, they can't. Oh my God. I think that trips something and they can't leave.

[Chris Ryan]

So they're walking around and the spirit's just Jedi mind tricking them to stay at. I wish it had been explained to whiff more clearly, but whatever. Do you have a different weak link of the film or no?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I mean I think that the setup for horror Movies is usually like my favorite part of horror films because that's where you sort of get to know the people. And the Blair Witch, there's a lot of interviews. Like, it's somewhat repetitive. I think if I had like 10 more minutes in the woods and 10 less minutes in town, I would be fine. And. But. But like, that's also because you have the Curse of the Blair Witch, which has all that stuff essentially. I do love the one with the mom with the baby who's like trying to cover her mouth, though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that was good. I had her lit coming up later in a different category. Wood stage. The worst. Big fat handheld cameras, DAT machines that.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to lug around. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And by the way, those were like the new sleeker versions. Because the one like the one I had in the late 80s, you're like separating your shoulder nostrils in HD. Poor Heather's Nostrils says the TVs have gotten better. That hasn't been grateful. We're like going way. You can almost see your brain. Here's my big one. No fun. No super fun scene in the first like 25 minutes to make me care about the characters more. I actually think the drunk scene could have gone longer. Maybe it wasn't good. Or some argument where they're arguing about some sort of pop culture thing or a sports thing or just something where they could connect a little bit before it gets scary. It's definitely missing one or two scenes. Right. We're like, oh, I like these. These three are a fun hang. Or, oh, these three are interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think if they had done too much Gilligan's island stuff, it would have dated it more.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't think they should done the Tarantino?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's fine the way it is.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what I like about Amsterdam? What? They're just like. You have any. What stage the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, number one is that Josh and Mike missed the Juan Dixon and Steve Blake NCAA tournament run.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they really would have loved that. Such a likable barrel of team, you know, is this.

[Bill Simmons]

Exactly. But for real, the. The three actors got fuck jobbed. Like, there's a lot of different. Yeah, there's a lot of different accounts of this. And this has become even a bigger thing now because in 2016, I think, or 18, they did Blair Witch, which was the reboot, and now Blumhouse has the rights to it and is going to do it again. They did not really participate in the fortunes of this film.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So the backstory, they agree to make it. It's made for no money. The guys who paid for everything sold it for 1.1 million to Artisan, which was some studio artisan, then goes, see, it's basically an indie deal. But then they go and they make 248 million bucks from there. They didn't have any points in the movie. They didn't get bonuses for certain thresholds. And they basically. Not only did they make no money, then they had no career after because.

[Bill Simmons]

Their lives got turned upside down.

[Chris Ryan]

So it's this cool thing to be in the movie, but somehow they got nothing out of this thing that made $248 million.

[Bill Simmons]

And I think it would be one thing if they were like in a James Cameron movie and they, like, are just walking across the frame and James Cameron is doing everything.

[Chris Ryan]

They're literally doing everything in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they're like shooting it. They're coming up with. They are the characters in a lot of ways. And they're doing. I mean, like, obviously it's a collaboration, but I don't think that they ultimately got paid fairly for their work.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's still going. There's a lot of stuff that you can really deep dive it. The other part, that's a wood stage the worst. So you said how Blumhouse owns it now. Jason Blum, who's we've done stuff with, he's been on my pod a bunch of times. He was working at Merit Max at the time, passed on the movie, could have bought it, did it. Huge mistake. Became. He just didn't think it was going to be a hit. And then what happens? Eight years later he makes Paranormal Activity. It's like, yeah, I fucked up. And then does a better version of Blair Witch. Basically. I have that. In what stage? The worst. Just because I think that's a loss for Blum. Let me ask you, Blair Witch, how.

[Bill Simmons]

Many of the sequels have you watched? Are you. Are you Blair Witch Complete?

[Chris Ryan]

I definitely saw Blair Witch 2 on cable when it came out. It was awful and I hated it. And I haven't done any of the sequels. It's over here. I like the original and that's it.

[Bill Simmons]

The Adam Wingard reboot is pretty bad, except the climactic. Their version, its version of what happens in Blair Witch Project is one of the most physically taxing, like, fucking crazy horror scenes I've ever seen.

[Chris Ryan]

Really. Maybe I'll just watch that. There was. We were supposed to see the Blair Witch. Here's the Wood stage, the worst. And the cameraman fucked it up. The one time they actually had it when Heather's like, what the fuck is that? What the fuck is that?

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I was wondering if it was supposed to be. That's the guy running around in white, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

And then those guys got kind of fucked on the sequel to Myrick and Sanchez. They. They just wanted to pump it out as fast as possible. They got. They. And the guys were like, can we have some time? Can we have time to create a new one? And they were like, no, it's got to happen. Sanchez said, pick a release date, start working on the movie. There was a fuse tied, and whether you're ready or not, that bomb was going to go off. And those guys were like, we're out. We're not doing it. And they made it anyway. And it was terrible. Another wood stage. The worst. So Heather Donahue changed her name to Re Hunt. She retired from acting. She became a medical marijuana grower, changed her name and just seems like really scarred by the whole experience that she was known as Heather from this movie and really regrets it. Regrets using her own name and did not have a great experience with the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, there's a variety piece that's kind of like 25 years later with these folks or 30 years later with these folks, and you can tell it's still with them.

[Chris Ryan]

They're still bitter. Yeah. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge Overacting Award.

[Bill Simmons]

They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me lady. I come in here, I give these things to you.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me all you got.

[Bill Simmons]

I treated you like a son. You fucking stabbed me in the heart. You.

[Chris Ryan]

Fuck you all three.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think you can give it. When you're being terrorized by a spectral witch, is there really anything that's overacting?

[Chris Ryan]

So I have Mike before they realize they're being terrorized. When he's just getting super aggro.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he kind of dials it up a little bit. It's like, all right, thoroughly. Mike, settle down. Have. Have. Have a cigarette.

[Bill Simmons]

You haven't even found the same log yet. Mike.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Come on, buddy. Was there a better title for this movie? The first title was called the Blair Witch Tapes. How about this? Why didn't they just call it Blair Witch?

[Bill Simmons]

That's what the reboot winds up being called for a while. Its code name was the woods, which is pretty good, but also pretty general. The Blair Witch Project went towards the idea that this was like. This was like somebody was putting together this footage as a project and contributed to the weird, kind of like Is this real bit?

[Chris Ryan]

Can you dig it? A word for most memorable quote. Does this movie have a memorable, memorable quote?

[Bill Simmons]

I think no red, no redneck. Is this creative is up there.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you're right. That's good. All right. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award.

[Bill Simmons]

We've alluded to it. I just don't think you can actually truly understand this movie without watching Curse of the Blair Witch. And in some ways Curse the Blair Witch is almost better. Like I would love to see.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the hottest take. Just go better because that's the hot.

[Bill Simmons]

Take is I would love to see an assembly of the Blair Witch movie with the Curse of the Blair Witch and like have it be like two and a half hours.

[Chris Ryan]

My hottest take. I think this is one of the most fucked up franchises we've had. There should have been 10 of these. I just don't understand. Why did they rush out the sequel? Why did the next one take so long? How'd they fuck that one up too? The blueprint of Blair Witch Woods. People going back. Maybe there's a cousin of the Blair Witch in California. This just shouldn't get kept going and going. I don't understand it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because then they're also. They gave all of the opportunities to tell like the original stories. Right. Like there could have been the Crucible version of this with the original witch. There could have been the 1940s.

[Chris Ryan]

Totally. We could have could have been like Yellowstone.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think. I think this is a multibillion dollar franchise.

[Bill Simmons]

Ripping Beth hanging out of the witch.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's go to 1880, man. Hey, guess what? There's a fucking witch. I don't know. I just feel like they really missed it. I can't believe they fucked it up that badly. Casting what ifs. So there are none. They did a whole improv process to find the three actors and that was it. They wanted people that could kind of think on their feet. Heather said that they asked her to improvise and the improv was, you've been in prison, you've served nine years of a 25 year sentence, you're up for parole. Why should we let you out? And she said I was the only person that said, I don't think you should. And they were like, cool, you've got the job. Who knows if that's true? Best that guy award, everyone in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean you can't really have a that guy for this. For this movie. I don't think I do.

[Chris Ryan]

I fucked up Rewatchables Pod.

[Bill Simmons]

This is Dion Waiters.

[Chris Ryan]

I have, though, the mom who covers her mouth.

[Bill Simmons]

I like.

[Chris Ryan]

Also fishermen.

[Bill Simmons]

Ed Swanson, the younger fisherman. I like him.

[Chris Ryan]

It's always good when somebody's about and a bunch of movies have cribbed this. Somebody's about to take that last step to go to the place you're not supposed to go.

[Bill Simmons]

And they're like, don't do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, don't fucking.

[Bill Simmons]

It's usually like some guy who's working at the last gas station. He's like, you kids will never learn.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, the fisherman. Or like there's some auto mechanic who's helping them with gas or whatever it is. Recasting couch, director or city. So what if they got three actual 1999 actors and made the movie with.

[Bill Simmons]

Three real actors, like Affleck, Damon and Paltrow or something?

[Chris Ryan]

I had Michelle Williams, Heath Ledger, and Jake Gyllenhaal. It's just early Brokeback. It's like the Brokeback.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

All them were acting in the. They were all young actors in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Late 90s in this version of your Brokeback. Witch Project.

[Chris Ryan]

Broke back. Witch Project is.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Michelle Williams character. Kind of like, why do you guys keep.

[Chris Ryan]

Why do you guys get in your own tent here?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I only. I brought 1 10. Why'd you guys bring another 10?

[Chris Ryan]

Michelle Williams as the lead would have been really good, especially at this point in her career.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, but, like, this movie doesn't work if you're like, oh, it's Michelle Williams from. Yeah, true.

[Chris Ryan]

You're right. Yeah. All the people from this movie became the person. All right, one more break. Coming back, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, or somebody else for the director's commentary of the Blair Witch Project.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, we got. We got to keep our hot streak going. We got to get Belichick back.

[Chris Ryan]

We're back. I thought you might do Van Pelt.

[Bill Simmons]

Josh. Josh knocked over that pile of rocks there. It's just a mental error. Can't have that. Can't have that. Now he's. He's going to get slime on his clothes and they'll find his tongue in a. In a T shirt.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think when they keep ending up at that log, I don't think they realize they're in another dimension at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, that's just. That's mental mistakes. You got to work on that.

[Chris Ryan]

You got to know where you are. I think when Mike lost the map, that was a huge moment for them because you don't have a Map reminds.

[Bill Simmons]

Him of when Scott Peoli lost the map. Once.

[Chris Ryan]

When I was working with Nick Saban, 1989, we had a map of our place and Nick Saban lost it.

[Bill Simmons]

Couldn't do it.

[Chris Ryan]

That was it.

[Bill Simmons]

Couldn't have it.

[Chris Ryan]

Map was gone. When are you going to break out, Van Pelt? I can't wait for that one.

[Bill Simmons]

Heather, I'm just a guy in this tent with you right now. And I gotta ask, do you know.

[Chris Ryan]

As you, I've never been that scared, but I still gotta ask. Do you regret going in the woods? Half ass. Internet research. Heather Donahue's mother received sympathy cards from people who believed their daughter was actually dead. That happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus Christ.

[Chris Ryan]

The shoot was eight days. The actors never knew the Blair Witch was fake. Thousands of people have gone to Maryland hoping to find the Blair Witch legend and were sadly disappointed because they had closing credits.

[Bill Simmons]

They had to tear down that house because fans kept going and trying to, like, break off pieces of it as memorabilia.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And so they had to. They had to demolish it. I have my half. His Internet research truly, like, made my day. So I gotta share it with you. So there's a theory online that Mary, the crazy lady that they visit in the beginning of the movie, is the witch. Oh. And that she is basically like, not in her witch form when they see her, but that that's why she has like the little sort of voodooy ties around her fence that keeps it locked. And that when Heather is running around filming the rocks in the beginning of the film in the forest, she says something like, what was the Bible quote that Mary told us about the rocks? And so people on Reddit basically have found this quote that they think it is, which is from Genesis. Oh, Jesus. I know. I'm gonna break out some Genesis. This pile of rocks and this one special rock both help us to remember our agreement. I will never go past these rocks to fight against you, and you must never go on my side of these rocks to fight against me. And it's essentially like they pass the rocks and that's why the witch comes out.

[Chris Ryan]

So you think these filmmakers were smart enough to.

[Bill Simmons]

I do. I do.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow. Great job.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great Easter egg.

[Chris Ryan]

I know. That's a theory.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And Josh knocks over the rocks. Yeah. Josh goes first.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you thrown that theory at Ray Hantz yet?

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't. I haven't.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a lot of stuff about Josh and Heather not getting along. For people who care. The house used as the Rustin Par house, which you mentioned was called The Griggs house. Located in Patapisco Valley State Park, 50 miles east of Burkettsville. Built in the 1800s, renovated early 20th century. It had been abandoned, vandalized, and was decaying for several decades. And somehow they were able to film in there. And then eventually, now it's gone. And then Josh's camera, which was a CP16 about 10 years ago, sold on ebay. What do you think they got?

[Bill Simmons]

30 grand.

[Chris Ryan]

10 grand. Okay, that's it. Apex Mountain. Everyone in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And the drag?

[Chris Ryan]

Literally everyone. Sundance.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

What is the Apex Mountain for Sundance? This is pretty good. This movie became a top 10 movie and a phenomenon based on a Sundance screening.

[Bill Simmons]

So Sex Lies in Videotape is a huge Sundance movie. Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, yeah. That kind of creates Sundance.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So I wonder if that. What kind of functions is in. In that sense. Would you say it's Apex Mountain for viral marketing?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Good call. I found footage movies. Probably Paranormal Activity. Right. Because that leads to nine paranormal activities.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's. This invents it. You know, Oren probably doesn't do that. That franchise. Do you think it's witches? I think wizard of Oz probably for. For witches. Do you think this is Apex Mountain for Cal Ripken getting mentioned in films?

[Chris Ryan]

I would just say yes. How about staring in a corner right before murder? Apex Mountain.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Artisan Entertainment acquired this movie for 1.1 million and 250 tuple. Timed it. I think it's one Apex Mountain for them because I can't.

[Bill Simmons]

Great film investments of all time. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Could have floated some to the cast. Cruise or Hanks? Why not both?

[Bill Simmons]

Why not both as Josh and Mike.

[Chris Ryan]

No, gotta pick. I was thinking Hanks as Mike young Hanks. Like 1981 Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It would be really funny if 1999 Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks were the fishermen.

[Chris Ryan]

Magnolia Cruise.

[Bill Simmons]

They were the fishermen.

[Chris Ryan]

Cruz is doing the Jerry Maguire stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just gonna freak out. I'm in the woods. Racehorse Rock Band. So we have Hanks as the winner for that.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

We're keeping score. Craig keeps score. Racehorse Rock Band wrestler fantasy team name. Coffin Rockers is pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Coffin Rock is a good one.

[Chris Ryan]

Man Or Coffin Rockers. I like fantasy team or Coffin Rock something. Coffin Rock's good. Picket nets. I said, I said earlier. Why would you stay near the Indian burial ground? Super. Just anyone listening Indian. If you hear the words Indian Barrel ground out state. Just done. Don't with it. How did they have this much camera battery?

[Bill Simmons]

They charge it at Heather's the day before. I wonder how.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, every six days, those cameras where you chew up the Battery in like three hours, they would be filming 20 battery packs.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I do think. I think that's a legitimate knit to pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's be honest. Nitpick. Two cigarette questions. Why didn't they have more cigarettes? And then why did it take Mike so long to dig through his pack to make sure there weren't more cigarettes at the bottom? I feel like c art is cigarette smoking peak. The bag's upside down within three hours and you've gone through every crevice of it to make sure there's no cigarettes left. Mike's just like, hey, I found some more butts. It's like what.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what we call a carton trip. Somebody's got to bring a carton. Just you never.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like a carton trip.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just anything longer than two days and it's like we don't know where the next convenience store is going to be. There's not going to be like any outpost where we can do this. What else are we going to do while walking around the woods?

[Chris Ryan]

All of them smoke, right? So that's at least 15 cigs a day for three people. They're going to be in the woods for four. So that's.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Mike was closer to a pack because when they pick Mike up in the morning, he's burning one. When he sees Mike might have been.

[Chris Ryan]

Like a pack and a half a day.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That goes to a larger nitpick that I had, which is, with all due respect to Heather, as a documentary filmmaker, the camera equipment goes first. It's just. I'm not liking this.

[Chris Ryan]

Once we know we're dying, let's. Yeah, let's try to get rid of this shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Good call.

[Bill Simmons]

So I'm moving a lot quicker that way.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I should have mentioned this. In what stage? The best, and my apologies for not doing it. Movies where cigarettes are a huge part of the plot, I just really miss. I just don't think you could do this now where it's like one of the three biggest dramatic forks are the fact that they're finally out of cigarettes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what would be the equivalent now? Now it'd be like, you know, vape.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like my. I ran out of zin. It would probably be phones if you didn't have your phone. Oh, yeah. Your phone battery would be dead. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't go on tick tock. Any other nitpicks?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you Think that like there. There's an interesting conversation that happens in the movie where Josh is like, my girlfriend is going to get worried soon. Like people are going to notice that we're gone.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think that it's a nitpick that it wouldn't happen sooner? Or is it like that's a very 90s thing that it's like, oh, have you seen Bill? No, I haven't seen him like a week.

[Chris Ryan]

That was a 90s thing to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He said he's going to be back Tuesday. It's Thursday. Ah. You know, stop somewhere.

[Bill Simmons]

He's looking for smokes.

[Chris Ryan]

Probably found a diner. Yeah. Sequel prequel, Prestige tv all black cast are untouchable prequel. Was sitting there to do the Yellowstone model. There are multiple prequels.

[Bill Simmons]

The Rustin par story.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Really just such a miss by fucking artisan. They made so much money from this movie. Like fuck it is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Sam Jackson, J.T. walsh, Byron Mayo, Harley Mays, evil after Ramon Raymond, Philip Baker hall. Our new entry just for this. Private Hudson from Aliens.

[Bill Simmons]

She tore down the voodoo witch. Man. What the fuck are we going to do now? I had. I had Byron, actually. Heather, Josh. Mike. You know what helps me? After a long day of hiking through the Maryland woods looking for a mythological creature, getting in a rented tent for three and turning on the camcorder and seeing what happens. Let's make a movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's get rid of two of those three sleeping bags and go to town. Oh my God. By this would be a good Baron movie. It's day four. I know we're feeling a little gamey. Just one Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

I love your scent, Mike.

[Chris Ryan]

Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Nobody.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, if you could give an Oscar to the marketing department or the marketing campaign, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

Do they have that?

[Bill Simmons]

They do not.

[Chris Ryan]

Marketing would be good. Probably unanswerable questions. So this is a passion point for me. If you're this lost in the woods, climb a fucking tree and see where you are. My wife and I were talking about this last night. There's gotta be a tree you can climb and see how high you can go so you can see the surrounding areas. Because unless they hiked for what?

[Bill Simmons]

If you get to the top of that tree and all you see is.

[Chris Ryan]

Trees, then I know we're not near anything.

[Bill Simmons]

Then you just throw yourself out of the tree and die. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Then it's plan B. Start setting trees on fire. So the.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Just. Just kill miles and miles of wildlife to get saved. Now I Don't. I don't. I don't know. When you climb to the top, whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

It takes to see that terps run, you gotta do it.

[Chris Ryan]

You can't miss it. Did Mike lose the map because the spirits possessed him? Unanswerable question.

[Bill Simmons]

I never thought about that. I thought he was basically the witch.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, wanted him to kick the map away.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was supposed to be more like, mike is hungry. Mike is tired. He does something really fucked up and then doesn't cop to it until the absolute last minute.

[Chris Ryan]

Who found the camera stuff? How long did it take?

[Bill Simmons]

I would assume, like, in the documentary, it suggests that there's, like, you know, their search party. So, I mean, eventually, like, the authorities find it.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, Any other unanswerables for you?

[Bill Simmons]

How much did Heather know about where she was taking them in the woods? Because she obviously knows Coffin Rock. She knows that there's supposed to be a cemetery. She obviously knows there's supposed to be a house somewhere since that's where the Rustin Parr stuff happened. So in the journals, there's just a sense that she's like. I mean, she. She's very, like, keyed into some intense writing in the journals. But there's a suggestion that she's, like, a little bit more aware of the dangers and where they're going than when she's alluding to in the film where she's just like, I know where we're going. I know where we're going. Don't worry about it. We're going this way. You know, and so it's. That's an interesting, ambiguous part of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

So was Heather evil?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think so, but I think she knew more about the mythology of.

[Chris Ryan]

The area than she was letting down a witch. Best double feature choice. Would you go Paranormal Activity? It's like the 1.0 and 2.0 version of this.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean, honestly, the curse of the Blair Witch is the double future.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, good call. Okay, the Indian Reds want an air award. What happened the next day? Well, in this case, what happened the next 15 minutes? How long did it take for Mike to die? Did he die or did he die because the legend was you killed the one up next, what if Mike's not dead later? We'll talk about the cowboys. Now, the legend was he then has to die next. So you just.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't understand. That is one thing that you kind of have to consider. So Josh gets his tongue and teeth ripped out. So the Blair Witch is imitating Josh. I suppose you just Assume Josh is dead. Dead, but you know, like it's not killing in pairs if it's three. So is Josh still there as like a spectral kind of like emissary of the witch? I don't really know.

[Chris Ryan]

Josh had to go because he kicked the rocks over. Yes, they slammed his thing. They're fucking pissed about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He gets marked.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he got marked. That's what happened. What piece of memorability would you want from this movie? Obviously the camera because it went for 10k. I don't know. I don't know what else. Like, it's like. Oh cool. That's a slime sleeping bag from Blair Witch.

[Bill Simmons]

Heather's journal.

[Chris Ryan]

Heather's journal is a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Mike's last cigarette.

[Chris Ryan]

An empty Mike cigarette pack.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a kind of crumpled up windst.

[Chris Ryan]

Could you tell what he was smoking? I was looking for that.

[Bill Simmons]

I couldn't.

[Chris Ryan]

I couldn't. They really had it. Hit it.

[Bill Simmons]

I smoked Winston Lights at the time. So I was just. I associate it with Winston Lights.

[Chris Ryan]

You think he was a cheaper cigarette guy or did he splurge or was he a Marlboro Reds? Let me just plow some of these.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a Carlton guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I was thinking probably maybe camels for him. Not the camel lights, just the.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, unfiltered camels.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. The Coach Finstock award. Best life lesson. Don't fuck with witches, burial grounds or the woods. I think is a good way to proceed through life.

[Bill Simmons]

Those three things just don't leave eyesight of. Don't leave eyeshot of the car.

[Chris Ryan]

Who won the movie? I sadly probably artists and entertainment. They 250 tuple time their investment. Unless you want to go. The filmmakers. It definitely wasn't the three actors.

[Bill Simmons]

The filmmakers. But I'm going to include the actors just because they also were part of the filmmaking process. But to basically revitalize if not fully popularized the found footage horror thing that's still going strong today.

[Chris Ryan]

I think we won the movie because we found out about your fear of hiking in the woods.

[Bill Simmons]

Woods especially. Just getting deeply lost in the woods is not. I couldn't handle it.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that your number one fear? Feels like. This should be a ringer. This should be. What are they called?

[Bill Simmons]

Ring.

[Chris Ryan]

A retreat. We have to do like trust exercises. You and fantasy.

[Bill Simmons]

We have to get like in a shark cage together.

[Chris Ryan]

Ten miles into the woods with. With no phones. Craig, any last thoughts? I don't feel like Craig's going to recommend this movie to anybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I just think it's hard. I'm jealous I couldn't experience the phenomenon. And, or, and honestly, there will probably be nothing like this that I could experience or did experience in my life. So it's just a bummer.

[Chris Ryan]

We have too much paranormal Activity. Have you seen the first Paranormal Activity?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but you didn't think it was real.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So even if it's a really scary.

[Chris Ryan]

Effective movie, there will be nothing like this again.

[Bill Simmons]

And I don't. I can't even think of anything similar. It's just like Apex Mountain 4. You had to be there moments.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. Oh, that's good. I like it. That's it for the Blair Witch Project. Thanks to Chris Ryan, thanks to Craig Korlbeck for producing, thanks to Jack Sanders as well. You can watch this podcast on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, and we will see you next week.