‘The Gambler’ (2014) With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Summary

The Rewatchables: 'The Gambler' (2014) with Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan
Release Date: December 17, 2024

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Rewatchables, host Bill Simmons and guest Chris Ryan delve deep into the 2014 film The Gambler, starring Mark Wahlberg. Despite its initial lukewarm reception both commercially and critically, Simmons and Ryan explore why The Gambler has become a rewatchable favorite for many movie enthusiasts. Skipping over the advertisements and introductory segments, the conversation primarily focuses on the movie's themes, character development, and performances.

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Background and Initial Impressions

Bill Simmons begins by recounting his own journey with The Gambler. Initially indifferent, he admits, "I watched the first 40 minutes. Slow start." (02:23), but after rewatching it multiple times, his perspective shifted dramatically. Chris Ryan echoes this sentiment, noting that while the film didn't make a significant impact upon its release, it "has this whole second life and it's been on cable a lot" (04:45).

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Character Analysis and Performances

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Mark Wahlberg's portrayal of Jim Bennett, a self-destructive professor battling gambling addiction. Simmons questions Wahlberg's suitability for the role: "Mark Wahlberg as an actor... you can make a case he's the perfect actor for this movie. And you could make a case that there's 20 actors you would rather have in this movie" (06:04). Ryan adds that Wahlberg's trajectory shifted post-The Gambler, moving towards more mainstream, less serious roles.

John Goodman and Michael K. Williams also receive commendation for their roles. Goodman’s portrayal of the loan shark Frank is highlighted as "incredible" (22:48), while Williams' character Omar is described as having "really interesting human connection" (16:16). The duo discusses how these supporting roles elevate the film despite its flaws.

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Themes and Storytelling

Simmons and Ryan dissect the movie’s core themes, noting it grapples with existential questions and the struggle between honesty and self-destruction. Ryan emphasizes, "It's a movie about ideas... how to live honestly, what people need to do to live successfully" (05:20), suggesting that multiple viewings are necessary to fully appreciate the dense dialogue and philosophical underpinnings.

The protagonists' journey is seen as a quest for meaning amidst chaos, with Simmons articulating the central conflict: "This is a movie about somebody who wants to obliterate himself, to rebuild himself" (11:03). They discuss how Jim’s inability to find fulfillment in a conventional life leads him down a path of ruin, highlighting scenes where his interactions reveal his deep-seated desire for genuine emotion and connection.

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Cinematography and Direction

Rupert Wyatt’s direction and Greg Frazier’s cinematography receive praise for capturing Los Angeles's underbelly. The hosts appreciate the "great photography" and the authentic depiction of secret gambling dens (24:49). They draw parallels with other films like John Wick and Heat, admiring how The Gambler creates a "mini world inside a city we already think we know" (18:03).

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Critiques and Weak Points

Despite its strengths, the film is not without its shortcomings. Simmons criticizes Wahlberg’s delivery in pivotal scenes, suggesting his performance sometimes veers into "unintentional comedy" (07:12). They also point out inconsistencies in the gambling strategies depicted, with Ryan mentioning, "There's actually not a lot of juice to the gambling scenes" (16:28).

Another point of contention is the relationship between Jim and Brie Larson’s character, which the hosts find less believable. Simmons questions, "I don't know why Brie Larson's character would like Jim" (35:02), highlighting a disconnect in their on-screen chemistry.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Scenes

Several memorable quotes from the film are discussed, underscoring the movie’s thematic resonance:

• Frank (John Goodman): "A wise man's life is based around fuck you. The United States of America is based on fuck you." (44:34)
• Jim Bennett (Mark Wahlberg): "I am just trying to win everything I can or go broke."

Key scenes analyzed include Jim’s philosophical lectures, the high-stakes blackjack games, and his emotional breakdown at the beginning. Simmons and Ryan highlight how these moments encapsulate the film's exploration of truth, self-destruction, and the quest for authenticity.

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Legacy and Rewatchability

In wrapping up, Simmons and Ryan reflect on the film's enduring appeal despite its initial reception. They agree that The Gambler offers rich material for rewatching, allowing audiences to uncover deeper layers with each view. Goodman’s and Williams’ performances, in particular, are cited as reasons to revisit the movie repeatedly.

Simmons concludes, "This movie has great themes and thoughts in it... it's a good place" (101:19), emphasizing that the film's philosophical depth and character-driven narrative make it a worthy addition to The Rewatchables archive.

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Conclusion

Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan provide a thorough and nuanced exploration of The Gambler, highlighting its complex characters, thematic depth, and compelling performances. While acknowledging its flaws, they present The Gambler as a film that rewards multiple viewings, offering insights into human behavior, honesty, and the pursuit of meaning. This episode serves as a testament to the movie's unexpected appeal and its place among the rewatchable classics.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Bill Simmons (02:25): "Slow. Slow start."
• Chris Ryan (05:20): "It's a movie about ideas... how to live honestly, what people need to do to live successfully."
• Frank (John Goodman) (44:34): "A wise man's life is based around fuck you. The United States of America is based on fuck you."
• Jim Bennett (Mark Wahlberg) (30:23): "Life's a losing proposition. You might as well get used to it."

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Key Themes and Insights

• Existential Struggle: The protagonist's quest for meaning amidst self-destructive behavior.
• Honesty vs. Self-Deception: Jim’s unwavering honesty contrasts with others’ self-deceptions.
• Character Depth: Strong supporting roles add layers to the narrative.
• Cinematography and Setting: Authentic portrayal of Los Angeles’s underground gambling scene.
• Rewatchability: Multiple layers and dense dialogue encourage repeated viewings.

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Final Thoughts

The Gambler stands as a thought-provoking film that, despite its initial reception, offers substantial material for analysis and appreciation. Through Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan's insightful discussion, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the movie's intricate themes and compelling performances, reaffirming its status as a rewatchable classic.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at the Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts during the week. We'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that will include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the College Football Playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe and get ready for the McShay show on the Ringer, Spotify and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by State Farm. There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say when you need help to protect them. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Disney's Mufasa the Lion King. Get tickets now for the ultimate family holiday movie experience. Reunite with the characters you know and the untold story you'd never expect. Witness Mufasa's rise from orphan to king and see how the legendary villain Scar got his name. Disney's Mufasa the Lion King in theaters everywhere this Friday, the kingdom awaits the.

[Bill Simmons]

Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find a lot of the videos that we've done of episodes on the Ringer Movies channel. Now we have a Ringer TV channel.

[Chris Ryan]

We do Ringer TV on YouTube.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you cranking it on there or what? We sure are some cranking.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

You're cranking it on a YouTube channel.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's cranking it. The watch is cranking away. You did some three person stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Me, Joe and Rob did a little bit of a holiday recommendation kind of list for people. For people who are looking for stuff to watch over the holidays was one of them. Carry on with on Netflix the second we're done Here. I'm going home to watch it.

[Bill Simmons]

I watched the first 40 minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

How was it?

[Bill Simmons]

Slow. Slow start.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, really? Really.

[Bill Simmons]

Evil Bateman, though.

[Chris Ryan]

I love Evil Bateman.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't know it. Didn't. He's not on the. Not on the poster. Well, Ozark kind of buried him.

[Chris Ryan]

He was pretty evil in Ozark.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess he became evil. Well, I don't know how to describe the character in the Gambler. Is he evil? Is he good guy? What the hell is he? What is this movie?

[Chris Ryan]

He's a teacher.

[Bill Simmons]

As a teacher, we're going to talk about the Gambler on the Rewatchables. It's next. Where would a teacher like you get.

[Chris Ryan]

That kind of money?

[Bill Simmons]

He knew how to win the game.

[Michael K. Williams]

I've seen you be half a million dollars off.

[Emery Cohen]

I've been up two and a half million dollars.

[Bill Simmons]

But the rules. I don't like to lose.

[Michael K. Williams]

I will kill your entire bloodline.

[Bill Simmons]

Just changed. What's going on?

[Emery Cohen]

Time to get away from me.

[Bill Simmons]

I've never done anything like this before.

[Emery Cohen]

Gotta meet me.

[Michael K. Williams]

You understand the gravity of your situation.

[Emery Cohen]

A gambler I came to play.

[Bill Simmons]

Rated R. All right, cr. This movie came out. We knew each other.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We were at Grantland.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Wesley Morris skewered this movie. And then you did a blog post and you really liked it.

[Chris Ryan]

I loved it.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys were like. Like Jack and. Who was the other guy in Lost?

[Chris Ryan]

Jack and Sawyer.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack and Locke. Yeah. Jack and Soy.

[Chris Ryan]

Jack and Locke. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And you've been. You've been nudging me on this movie for years.

[John Goodman]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I just, like two thirds of the way there for a while, and then I caught it last year and it finally fell into place. And then I watched it twice this week, and now I'm all in it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's about a bunch of stuff that we like. Yeah, Genius writing, gambling, and college hoops. So it's already got a bunch of stuff that we're interested in, but it's one of those weird, you know, mid 2010s movies that we would call, like, five o'clockers that at, like, on a Friday at Grantland or whatever, we would kind of, like, cut out a little bit early and then go see something over at the movie theater right by LA Live. And this was one that just kind of came and went. Like, even with Wahlberg, it didn't really, like, make much of an impact either commercially or critically, but it's kind of, like, at least for me, lived on. And I go back to it really often just to see just how fucking weird it is at times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I remember he passed through the whole Grand Lan universe. Cause he really promoted this. And he did my part.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he thought this was like an Oscar movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he lost all this weight for it. I remember being excited. Cause he did the podcast and he never really talked about Boogie Nights that much. But during the podcast I asked about Boogie Nights. Cause we were doing oral history for it and we were able to grab what he said and put it in there. But he was really confident this was gonna be a big movie and it just wasn't. But now it has this whole second Life and it's been on cable a lot. And I also think it's one of those movies you really do have to watch a few times. And that feels like a cop out. But I don't think it is. Cause there's a lot. There's a lot of themes in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

It's mostly a movie about ideas. I know people might laugh at, like a Mark Wahlberg gambling movie being a movie of ideas, but this is based on a James Toback film from the 70s, but is also based on a Dostoyevsky book. And most of the scenes are not about, like dramatic tension of what's going to happen. They're about two or three characters exchanging their points of view and their ideas about, like, how to live. How to live honestly, what people need to do to live successfully. And I think that that winds up rewarding on multiple viewings. It's also, strangely, a movie that you kind of sometimes need to have subtitles on for. Yeah, there's a lot of mumbling, but there's also a lot of really dense dialogue and dense speechifying. So it's just one of those things that if you have it on and on, you kind of get more out of it.

[Bill Simmons]

It also has a fundamental question, which we've been sitting with for 30 years now, with Mark Wahlberg as an actor. Because you can make a case he's the perfect actor for this movie. And you could make a case that there's 20 actors you would rather have in this movie and that his limitations as an actor and for what he's willing to do and not do in a movie, hold this movie back or it's perfect. And I don't really know where I've landed on that.

[Chris Ryan]

This is kind of like, this is the road not taken for Wahlberg. You know, like, this is the Diggler. This is Departed. This is doing prestigious stuff, working with really good scripts. And he has since kind of almost at this Moment gone in a completely different direction where he.

[Bill Simmons]

Cause it didn't work. Now he's like, all right, let's do some people.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Crank out, like, two family movies in an action movie every year. And that's kind of like what he's sort of done with the rest of his professional career, along with, obviously, like, fitness training regimen stuff and supplements and exercise gear. So I feel like this was actually, like, his last stand of being taken seriously as an actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's. I'm in conflict in so many ways with this, because this is an English major movie, as you know, I hate English majors. It's got a lot of big, pretentious themes, and it's trying to do a lot of stuff, which instantly I'm. I'm against. I really do like Mark Wahlberg. I also don't know if he's that interested in going to certain places, and it's hard. And I've seen this movie now a bunch of times. It's hard not to imagine I'll just step on casting couch now. This, to me, would have been the perfect Bernthal movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, my God, dude.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, just perfect. This is everything I would have wanted from a Bernthal movie. The character would have made more sense to me. But I also think, like, to step on a casting. What if later, Leo was initially attached? And I'm like, I kind of like that direction, too. But on the other hand. So the rewatchable side of me, the five o'clocker side of me, the unintentional comedy side of me, I kind of love Wahlberg in this because he's. There's moments where I'm not with him, but that's what's fun about it. We're like, oh, man, Mark Wahlberg just didn't have it here. But then other moments where he's really.

[Chris Ryan]

Good, you can make the argument that. I mean, honestly, we could sit here for half an hour listing actors who probably would have nailed this. Oscar Isaac, Ethan Hawke, Mark Ruffalo. Like, so many different actors who probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Would have been really good, probably would.

[Chris Ryan]

Have been able to bring a little bit more familiarity with the teaching segments specifically. But there's something so weird about Wahlberg talking about Shakespeare and whether or not Shakespeare actually authored his plays. And, yeah, Camus and, like, the Stranger. And when he's, like, doing that stuff, you're like, he's trying so hard to be believable. And he apparently spent, like, all this time watching professors do lectures that it gives it this, like, otherworldly quality. Do you Know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Inuyasa is a very strange haircut. Everything about it is a very non Wahlberg performance. The way he handles the gambling scenes is just stupor. It's. Everything he's doing is some sort of weird Wahlberg choice that I kind of like. But I almost wonder, was this a better part for somebody else? Because the remake, the original movie, the James Caan movie, it's just a classic James Caan swagger part like just him.

[Chris Ryan]

Being James Khan, it's part of like a constellation of Khan.

[Bill Simmons]

Parts like The Thief movie, Godfather 1, Thief, Rollerball. All these movies where he's just like James Caan swinging around. He might get the shit kicked out of him any time. He might kick the shit out of somebody else. Yeah, don't leave your wife or your girlfriend with them. Just machismo all the time. And Wahlberg, it's probably closest to Dirk Diggler. And it's funny because he lost all this weight for the movie, so he actually has the Dirk digger face, but he's got this weird hairdo. And I feel like he wants to go to this crazy place here. But yet, really, the only time he breaks down is the beginning of the movie when he's saying goodbye to his grandfather.

[Chris Ryan]

There's that. There's the scene in Amy's apartment where he, like, tells her what he wants when she jumps him. Yeah, but that's really it. Everything else, the whole point of this character, Jim Bennett, is that he just tells the truth. And it's actually like a really incredible dramatic not invention of the film, but like a thing to do is just, what if you had a character who was just always telling the truth? More or less. He actually doesn't really even lie to the bookies. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm trying to think. Did he try to fib out anybody? Never.

[Chris Ryan]

No. I mean, you could say at the end with the Lamar stuff, he doesn't tell all the truth, but he is telling the truth. I mean, he is being honest. When Lamar is like. When he goes to talk to Lamar, it's not like he's like. He's just like, you can do it for the money for you, but don't worry about me. Like, it's gonna happen either way for me.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so let's get English major, then. Okay, so is this a movie about somebody with a gambling problem? Is it somebody who's self destructive? Is it a movie about genius? Is it a movie about all of these things? What is it?

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's a movie about a guy who wants to obliterate himself, to rebuild himself. And I think one of the coolest about this movie is that there is no discernible trauma to this character that he is trying to recover from. Like most multiple characters confront him with that idea. Like, Brie Larson's character is like, did you not have, like, you have no problems? So you had to invent them for yourself. John Goodman is like, you're suicidal. Like, Michael K. Williams is always asking him, like, what his problem is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like, you're a good looking guy, normal family. You have Bunny.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's a character who by all accounts throughout the film wants to live like this ecstatic special life. And because he doesn't feel that way, he's just gonna destroy the life. He has, like the idea of being like, relatively happy. Honestly, the entire fuck you speech. I don't think he. That to him wouldn't be happiness to have like a 30 year mortgage, a reliable car.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Money in the bank that's paying 3% to 5%. That's not what he wants. He wants to like, feel things on a massive level. He wanted maybe to be a novelist, but knows he's not good enough. And so now he's like destroying the thing he is to feel anything at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like, he would. He would rather have Jameis Winston as his quarterback.

[Chris Ryan]

That is honestly exactly right. He wants to see a guy throw for 150 yards to the other team, then see Jalen.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you rather have Joe Burr or Jamis? And he's like, I would love Jamis. I would love the roller coaster ride on. Yeah. Because I mean, we'll. We'll dive into some of his blackjack.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like it's incidental to the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

He's stacking.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So when you stack, you just. You're on a death wish.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're basically like, I'm trying to win everything I can or go broke.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's it. So he loses all that money and then it's, I guess my fundamental part, my problem with the film, which isn't really a problem, but he's just losing all this money. So he kind of seems like he wants to be murdered.

[Chris Ryan]

He wants to either be reborn or die. Yeah. Like he. Either.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no path for him being reborn because he's just losing crazy amounts of money that he's not gonna be able to pay back.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, but then he meets Brie.

[Bill Simmons]

Larson and it feels like that's given him a shred of Hope that he's like, maybe I should get out of this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's feeling otherwise. He's on a suicide wish, basically.

[Chris Ryan]

I actually feel drawn to you. Like, even in the conversation that they have in the classroom, he's basically like, physiology is the only thing that I can't explain. He's obviously, like, getting closer and closer and closer to her. So he feels like, obviously, like, this is the first thing that's come along in a while that makes me want to be anything else than what I am.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like how Doug Peterson just goes for it on every fourth and five. He's like, I can't feel anymore. I'm gonna do this cute B. Rolled out with Trevor Lawrence. The only way I could feel anything anymore. Yeah. So this movie's. The big themes are like, to be or not to be.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All or nothing.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the point of all of this if you're not a genius?

[Chris Ryan]

Don't try.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it worth even? Should you just be an electrician at that point? It feels like everything they're trying to say in the movie is the first speech he gives to the class.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Where he basically. He basically evicts her. It's the entire class. Then he points out to the Brie Larson character, and she's like, this is the only one who has a chance.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And he's like, if you were Shakespeare. Because they're talking about whether or not the works of Shakespeare were actually authored by somebody else. And like, the kid in the class is like, oh, do you think it's because, you know, the Earl of Oxford? And he was just like, if you wrote Hamlet, can you imagine not putting your name on Hamlet? Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's like, there's only like 5 of these people, 20 of these people, 100 of these people. Like, everybody else is just. Is playing for scraps. Everybody else is kind of lying to themselves. And he's like, I won't lie to myself. I just. It's just a very unique character for both him and for a 2014 movie to kind of present to us.

[Bill Simmons]

This seems like the kind of movie. If you could have said, what script are you jealous of? This would have been a script for you.

[Chris Ryan]

This is. This. Monahan's kind of one of my guys. So Monahan wrote Kingdom of Heaven, which is this Ridley Scott movie. That's incredible. If you see the Ridley Scott director's cut, he wrote the Departed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he did this. And then he's had some ups and downs since then with, like, movies that he's tried to direct and do work on. But this is just a riff movie, you know, like every character in here is just like, hey, man, here's like three pages of stuff to just riff on. It doesn't really even. Like, the first time he goes and sees Goodman, you're just like, I don't. What was the point of that? You know what I mean? You didn't take his money that he offered you. But they're just like, they're just podcasting. They're just vibing with each other.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You have multiple characters who definitely wouldn't be this. This deep in real life, and yet all of them are super deep. Even like the college basketball player, like really self aware, just has some awesome thoughts. Then you go to John Goodman.

[Chris Ryan]

He's definitely been moved by the stranger.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, John Goodman, who's just a murderer. He has these deep thoughts about the position of fuck you. And then the Michael K. Williams character. Same thing. Like, really interested in human connection and the reasons why people do shit. I'm not sure real life works that way, but that's what makes this movie so fun.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this alternate universe of what the gambler would be.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. And there's also, like. I think for people, one of the reasons why it was disappointing is that exactly what you were saying about stacking is that there's actually not a lot, lot of juice to the gambling scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was my biggest disappointment the first time I saw it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't really under it. I was so ready for gambling. And I also really like the James Khan movie. And it was so different than that from a sense of what it was trying to do.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

That I just had trouble with it. And then it would pop on and be like, all right.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you're like, I kind of like that Brie Larson. Well, because it's much bigger star now.

[Chris Ryan]

The card playing is boring, but what he's saying during the card playing is kind of interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you must be new here.

[Chris Ryan]

Also, no limit.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, he's delivering all his lines. Like Andy Samberg doing the impression of him. Say hi to your mother for me. He's got this like, weird edge to his everything. It's such a weird. This would be a really fun Oscar to hand out every year. Like, just. This is a weird one for you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, this was a weird one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Here we go with the it's a weird one for you category. Just people kind of going sideways of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I also wonder whether part of the reason why you and I Like this movie is that it is to. If Den of Thieves is like the JV version of Heat, this is kind of the JV version of Thief. And maybe like collateral cool LA movie. Guy with an open shirt collar.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have thrown in Rounders.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But I mean, specifically, like the Michael Mann, like, there's like, they use like the deep synth kind of score here a bunch of times. And it kind of gives you a little bit of that feeling of driving around LA or running around LA in the end at having this kind of breakthrough moment in this weird city. But it's not quite as good as those films.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it has. One other element that you and I both love is when movies create this little mini world inside a city we already think we know. And it's like you're going down downstairs, or you're parking your car and you're getting out and it seems like you're vowing for a party, but actually you're going into this whole crazy secret blackjack world or like this whole secret card world and just this whole underbelly kind of the high class underbelly, which I think John Wick really nailed in a great way, where John Wick's like, we're taking the high class underbelly to a whole other level. With Continental, there's a.

[Chris Ryan]

There's, you know, obviously in heat. There's BJ's on Alvarado, the nightclub that Al Pacino goes to. And I feel like Rupert Wyatt and William Monahan, when they made this movie were like, we have to, like, we have to double down on BJ's on Alvarado. So, like, when he goes to the Koreatown card playing, like, casino at the end, he goes through like an Internet cafe, an opium den, a noodle bar, and then he gets to the casino.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, and that rounders place too, though, place. The Russian with the Chesterfield.

[Chris Ryan]

Anytime a guy walks into a pretty nondescript place and then takes an elevator somewhere. Michael Clayton Rounders, like any. We go into a backroom that then also has a back room I'm in.

[Bill Simmons]

And there's like a. There's some sort of hot waitress or cash register person.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who has that look like, oh, he's back. And you just kind of know what you're.

[Chris Ryan]

She's also like a philosophy major. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And also totally ready to hook up with him again. It's such a strange Wahlberg movie. I made me think, like, what are my favorite Wahlberg movies? What's my relationship with Wahlberg in general? Because he's. We've now had him for three decades, and he's been in a lot of stuff. He's in one of my favorite movies ever, Boogie Nights, which I think is probably still my favorite. Wahlberg. But he's also in a lot of other stuff I like, like the Italian Job. Fear is a super weird movie. The Fighter2010. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, the Yards, I Heart Huckabee, Patriots Day. He does a lot of, like, he, for the first 10 years, 15 years of his career was still, like, searching around for that. Like the Departed. Yeah, he. I think he was, like, kind of not on Christian Bale's track, but was like. He was these kinds of roles, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he was in. It was somewhere like Damon and DiCaprio both turned this part down. And next stop was Mark Wahlberg.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of times, like, could he. Could he have done the Bourne Identity? He probably could have.

[Chris Ryan]

Now, after this, pretty much after a gambler, he more or less does a couple of Pete Berg movies where he's kind of like doing, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's doing.

[Chris Ryan]

But like, Deep Water Horizon, and then after that, it's like transformers, daddy's home, mile 22. Like, he makes two or three movies a year. There's one family one and one thriller or action movie.

[Bill Simmons]

And he does Ted two years before this, which is a really funny movie that had, I don't know, had some legs.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you do a Ted Rewatchables?

[Bill Simmons]

Not yet.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

But that was a weird choice. So there's, like, a sense of humor with him. But I also am not positive he has a sense of humor.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's a version.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember he was, like, really mad about the Sandberg thing, and he had to come on the next week and he, like, made fun of Sandberg back because he was pissed. It seemed like he was going to, like, fight him, say, how do you mother for me? He also, before he did this, he sought the blessing of James Khan.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think Jimmy Khan was like.

[Bill Simmons]

Jimmy, Mark Wahlberg here. How are you?

[Chris Ryan]

There's a dead man on the other end of this phone.

[Bill Simmons]

Jimmy Khan's like, don't do it. Well, I'm going to do it anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

They already paid me Tobacco wasn't happy about this either. I don't think.

[Bill Simmons]

I wasn't happy about it when I heard about it. Because, you know, anything mid-70s on if it's still watchable, I'm always gonna have my guard up. But they did really make it different than the original in a lot of ways.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also Just, I think for me, you know, like, Michael K. Williams has passed on, but this is like, one of those movies where the star keeps walking into scenes where he's getting his doors blown off by the other guy in the scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Even Brie Larson. Like, Brie Larson, Michael K. Williams, Goodman, even Dom from Entourage, whatever that guy's name is. He's really good. He's a good Jessica Lang. Jessica Lang's good. You're right. He's always like. It feels like he's the second best actor in nine scenes.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Emory Cohen cooks him a little bit. Like, in a good way. But, like, that character is really cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Goodman's incredible in this. And this is like, Goodman has put together so many just awesome, memorable supporting parts.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

That I almost feel like that's a bigger part of his legacy now, for me, than Roseanne, even though Roseanne was one of the biggest shows of the 90s.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the great character actors of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

But nobody's talking about Roseanne in 2024. But I think some of these movies that he's in that he just is able to just kind of fly into, like, a gust of wind, and he could just. What's he in three scenes in this movie? I mean, like, three and a half.

[Chris Ryan]

He does the one in the bathhouse, the one at the horse track, and then one at the end when he shows up at the Koreatown place.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he's ever been nominated for an Oscar. Probably won some Emmys. I don't think so. Probably won some. Won some comedy Emmys once upon a time. But it's a great movie for him. It's a great movie for Michael K. Williams, AKA Omar, who really hit a nice stretch after the Wire when he would pop up with stuff and you would be delighted to see him. Did he win or no?

[Chris Ryan]

He did not. Yeah, you're right.

[Bill Simmons]

So based on Dostoyevsky's novel originally, kind of, sort of. I researched this, and it really doesn't seem like it's based on.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you. I mean, I think it also, like, draws from. I. Draws heavily from the Stranger and the idea of, like, an existential sort of mindset. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the closest you came to him in this movie? You're just ready to throw it all away. Was there a new Bear comics moment?

[Chris Ryan]

I think when Ryan Howard tour his Achilles, I was like, fucking take it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So directed by Rupert Wyatt. Really? Well, this is, I think, a superbly made movie and turns out to be, like, one of the peaks of his career. And I think he was a promising director. That seemed like it was timeless.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he did a Planet of the Apes movie. He did this and then has kind of like done some sci fi stuff, but has kind of fallen out of.

[Bill Simmons]

Had some scandal stuff with Kristen Stewart.

[Chris Ryan]

No, actually that was Rupert Sanders.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that was a different guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Different Rupert.

[Bill Simmons]

Damn, I got my Ruperts mixed up.

[Chris Ryan]

That was my fault. I was. I told you that. And I was like, oh, wait, I gotta double check this. He also. This is shot by Greg Frazier, who's one of like the four or five best cinematographers. Like, LA looks awesome. There's some great photography in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, LA looks so awesome. I had trouble figuring out where we were in almost every scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I was trying to figure out where he lives, where Jim's clients. Could not figure it outanga.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe couldn't figure it out.

[Chris Ryan]

He's got that little.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, even where he's running all the way through the end, I could only figure out it kind of seemed like he ended up at our office.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, well, I think he's in.

[Bill Simmons]

That would have been weird.

[Chris Ryan]

He's supposed to be in Koreatown, but it seems like he's running through downtown Los Angeles to get back to, like a little bit north of McCarthy.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll tell you this, that is a much more action packed run than maybe they made it. Seen him in the movie. $25 million budget made $33 million. Here's what Wesley Morris wrote for Grantland. Shout out to Wesley, who's been on this podcast many times. Mark Wahlberg's grown so much in the last 15 years that you forget his limitations. He still can't show you what's happening inside a character. He needs dialogue and needs somewhere to run. The gambler gives them both, but they're both terrible. The dialogue never leaves the surface and the running across LA happens in the last sequence. It's supposed to thrill you, but it's such a cliche that your embarrassment extends to the crew member. Has to follow with the camera as Wahlberg chugs along. Wasn't a fan.

[Chris Ryan]

Wesley, tell him how you really feel.

[Bill Simmons]

I Wonder if like 10 years later, was this like. No, I kind of like it now because he's done that with some other ones. Roger Ebert was sadly not alive.

[Chris Ryan]

Roger ebert.com gave this two stars.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I had to do chat. GBT. Robert Ebert. Roger Ebert. I know you hate this unethical. Why is it unethical?

[Chris Ryan]

It's a sin. He's dead. You can't ask a robot to IMITATE.

[Bill Simmons]

Just wanted to find out.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't do this to me, he said.

[Bill Simmons]

Chatgpt said probably two and a half to three stars. Ebert was known for a sharp eye with character driven dramas and his appreciation for films that explored moral complexity and self destruction. Not wrong. Why are you so nervous? He was often skeptical of remakes intended to hold them to a high standard. True.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He may have praised Mark Wahlberg's committed performance, but questioned whether the character of Jim Bennett was as richly drawn or compelling as Axel Fried in the original. In summary, Ebert's review would have likely been a thoughtful balance of praise for its ideas and critique of its execution.

[Chris Ryan]

That sounds about right.

[Bill Simmons]

The robots are coming for us.

[Chris Ryan]

He would have been a little annoyed about them remaking a 70s cult classic.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. During a time that 74 to 77 stretch when it feels like all of those movies just should not be touched. Did you do. Are you Three Days of a Condor TV show?

[Chris Ryan]

The TV show, Yeah. I watched a bit of it. Yeah. I thought it was cool, but it was just like, that's one of the great 70s movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I won't watch it. Okay, I'll watch Carry on, though, with evil Jason Bateman.

[Chris Ryan]

Based on. Based on Alan Pikula's bag. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Now it's time for the most rewatchable scene brought to you by den of Thieves 2 Pantera. Yes. Ready for a new killer heist movie. Gerard Butler and O'Shea Jackson Jr. Are back in the sequel to the original hit. But this time, the cop goes gangster. See den of Thieves 2 Pantera. Only in theaters January 10th. We'll be seeing it before January.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I hope so.

[Bill Simmons]

Be calling in some favors Christmas night. Let's make that a big franchise.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Most rewatchable scene. This movie just kicks right in. Let's go gambling.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No. No opener. No. Like him at a Dodger game, planning the day. No. Coffee house scene. No. Him. He's just gambling right away.

[Chris Ryan]

Tell me if I got this rate. Walks in with 10 grand.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

Goes up 80, blows it. Now owes 240.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I want to talk about the gambling because we just. Of course we're going to have to. Obviously, I love blackjack.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's stacking from 10. He wins on a 19. Fair 15 against a king. Hits, which I would hit to get to 6. 21. So now he's up.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

10 and 20. So now he's up 40. 15 against a 13. He stays, which I think is the right move.

[Chris Ryan]

And he throws a. He gets like a face card. Right, like he gets like a 10.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he stays. Dealer gets the face card, Bus. So now he's up 80. At that point, you've won four. You've won four in a row. You're going to be like, that was great. You're probably taking half the bets going back. He's like, all in. 14 hits bus starting over. Gets mad at the dealer. Double it. You must be new. Double it.

[Emery Cohen]

Double it. Make it 80,000. Come on, Mr. Lee. Cover a lot more than that, buddy. You must be new. Double it.

[Bill Simmons]

Gets a nine against a five, gets an ace, stays on 20. And then anyone who loves blackjack knows what happened next door. Gets the 15 in the 6. Now all of a sudden he's down, what, 150?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He owes 240. And then he borrows 50 grand from Neville, from Michael K. Williams at 20 points interest.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we just call him Omar for the rest of the podcast? Or no Michael K. I'll call him Michael K. He earned the Michael K. Michael K. Says it's an unequal general situation.

[Chris Ryan]

Does he say it's a losing proposition? And he's like, so is life.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he says life's. This is what Wahlberg says. Life's a losing proposition. You might as well get used to it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So when he says that, you're like, all right, this guy. This guy's suicide pack with himself with gambling.

[Chris Ryan]

So he gives Mr. Lee 40k and he keeps 10 to gamble.

[Bill Simmons]

Leads me to. To the next. It's a small rewatchable, but Mr. Lee says, your luck is no good tonight. You came in with 10,000 in cash. You didn't give it to me. And Wahlberg says, well, this is a gambling establishment. You owe me $240,000. I want it in seven days. And what happens? He takes the 10k, gets 21 and.

[Chris Ryan]

20 gets a new dealer.

[Bill Simmons]

New dealer, 21 and 20 wins. The first two gets a 12, she busts. So he's won the first three hands. He's back. He's back kind of on the road again.

[Chris Ryan]

He also has one of my favorite lines of the movie where she goes, it's for your protection. And he goes, you don't come here for protection. You come. You don't come here for protection from yourself. You come here for the fucking opposite.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So deal the cards, right.

[Bill Simmons]

The first thing goes to the pipe. Don't look at him. There's no limit. Fuck my protection. Please deal with the cards.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know Jim Bennett was from fucking south.

[Bill Simmons]

I've given him the south there. I'm giving the departed accent. Please deal the cards. Yeah, Fucking act fucking Belichick. So blackjack turns 80k into 200k and then decides to take it over the roulette wheel, which is yet another. So he's just clearly trying.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's up 160 or whatever. And he goes and bets on black and loses. Fucking masterpiece scene. I could watch that scene, that 10 minutes over and over and over again.

[Bill Simmons]

He's put. Goes on black. Michael K goes. It's becoming up red all night. It's like, all right, fine, Black. And that's it. Really enjoyable. It's like 20 minutes all the way through. We get to meet some characters. Great stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Mr. Lee's casino seems to be on the PCH. Get the Ocean view? Maybe a little bit in Palisades. I don't know. Is there a lot of illegal gambling establishments?

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking a little, like, slightly seedy Venice.

[Chris Ryan]

It's in the hills.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's in the hills.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, you're right. He goes up.

[John Goodman]

Seems like Palisades.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Palisades has to be the answer then, because we could see the ocean and he's going uphill. Next one, Wahlberg's his big speech about how hard it is to be a novelist.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Emery Cohen]

I mean, we accept genius in sports as something we cannot do, but it's no more likely that you could be a writer, that you could be what? An Olympic pole vaulter? Because what you have to be before you try to be a pole vaulter. Hello, it's a pole vaulter.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Jessica Lange]

Yeah, you are one.

[Emery Cohen]

A pole vaulter.

[Jessica Lange]

A novelist.

[Emery Cohen]

No, I am not. For me to be a novelist, I would have to make a deal with myself that it was okay being a mediocrity in a profession that died commercially in the last century.

[Chris Ryan]

All right?

[Emery Cohen]

People do that. I am not one of them. If you take away nothing else from my class, from this experience, let it be this. If you're not a genius, don't bother.

[Chris Ryan]

All right?

[Emery Cohen]

The world needs plenty of electricians, and a lot of them are happy. I'll be fucked if I'll be a midless novelist. Getting good reviews from the people I give good reviews to.

[Bill Simmons]

Just some gems in here. What was your favorite part?

[Chris Ryan]

I think him dunking on the nerdy kid who's trying to get. Get into his good graces. And he's just like, absolutely not. But I. I think probably it's just all about the unequal distribution of talent. And I love the. When he somehow has one of the a first round draft pick NBA player like coming a future at first round draft pick and the number two tennis player in the country in his class and a genius writer. That's quite a class. It's pretty sure I don't remember any of those classes at Emerson.

[Bill Simmons]

In my classes I had like Jacko.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's like I got Jabari Smith Jr. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Worst case scenario, the third pick of the draft. I like when he does.

[Chris Ryan]

I also love when he's talking to Emery Cohen about tennis and he's like as you when you realize that you were the best, what did you start to think? And he's like, oh, I started to think about the game. And he goes, that's an IQ break point, brother. What the fuck?

[Bill Simmons]

I love to know what that means. If you're not a genius, don't bother. The world needs plenty of electricians and a lot of them are happy. I'll be fucked if I'd be a mid list novelist giving good reviews to the people I give good reviews to.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that is very funny.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he points out Brie Larson at a very early Brie Larson stage.

[Chris Ryan]

Of the movie right after the Gap.

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing has really happened for her yet.

[Chris Ryan]

In the movie or in her career.

[Bill Simmons]

In her career she's done short term.

[Chris Ryan]

12, which is like this weird awesome movie, but is also like her Rami Malek and Michael B. Jordan in the same movie right before they all get famous.

[Bill Simmons]

Like she's two years away. Is it train wreck with Amy Schumer 2016?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And then rooms.

[Bill Simmons]

Rooms right after that. She's in a couple other ones. One of those ones, you always liked her but you never kind of totally know what was going to happen with her. And then all of a sudden she became Brie Larson.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

She chooses to hide and blend in there with the rest of you. Why?

[Emery Cohen]

But do you know who does write at the highest level when most of us and even I even I write barely adequately. Do you know who it is in this room? Who is it? Don't give me that look. No, no, no, no, no, no. It isn't the one who talks the most. You're an NPR host, tops. Okay, the literary. The temporary person in here is Ms. Phillips. She's the least of streptorists in this room, the quietest and the only one who can have a real career at letters. Some of you can have one perceptually. Only she can have one. In reality, she is better at writing Then our US Presidently amateur number two is a tennis yet she chooses to hide or just blend in with the rest of you.

[Bill Simmons]

Why? And she answers, being in the middle is the safest place to be, Which I think is one of the themes of the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And that's what he refuses to accept.

[Bill Simmons]

He doesn't want to be in the middle. He'd rather just be killed in an alley. Because he lost $250,000 because he kept stacking. No money, no advantages. Genius is mag in that material. I mean, basically, he's. You're that douchey guy in your hall in college who's just has these big crazy things that he's saying about how society works. And everybody's like, fucking Tommy's going nuts over there.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Also like the English teacher who smells of cigarette smoke, kind of has red eyes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, likes the books that aren't on the syllabus.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely hooking up with one of the students.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Has like a kind of tattered Cormac McCarthy novel in his back pocket. And you're completely enchanted by him. You're just like, oh, my God, this guy is spitting.

[Bill Simmons]

Professor Smith is amazing. Next one. John Goodman's first scene, shaving his head. He sees three problems with Jim. He wants to live like a monk, he wants to dance with the devil, and he wants to borrow money to pay off debts that he can't pay off.

[Chris Ryan]

Associate professors. Let's just say he teaches at usc, because that has to be someplace that would be of a program big enough for Lamar to get considered to go to the NBA. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I had either UCLA or usc. I don't see if he's in la. It has to be one of those two schools. I feel like it's because he's just.

[Chris Ryan]

In Central Los Angeles a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Associate professor makes 150k. USC. I guess that's. That's what. It's in the ballpark. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Successful novelist.

[Chris Ryan]

No. Because he says he only made 17 grand off his novel.

[Bill Simmons]

People knew the novel. There was a little cabinet.

[Chris Ryan]

Michael K. Williams is like, I'm reading your novel. The. My favorite Frank line in this scene is when he's like, birth, education, intelligence, talent, looks, family money. Has all of this been some real comprehensive burden to you?

[Bill Simmons]

Right. I like that you went a little Logia. You like Cross, Logia and Goodman. I need this money because I'm a scumbag gambler. Say it. Say, I am not a man.

[Michael K. Williams]

I need something from you.

[John Goodman]

What?

[Emery Cohen]

Collateral?

[Michael K. Williams]

No, I need you to tell me, I need this money because I am a scumbag gambler. I am a scumbag gambler who is drowning in his own shit. That's the kind of man I am, Frank. And I want you to loan me a dying, suicidal asshole, a lot of money.

[Emery Cohen]

That's too much reminder.

[Michael K. Williams]

Hate it. Well, I'll make it simpler for you. You want this money, you tell me I am not a man. Say it. Say, I am not a man.

[Chris Ryan]

And so he won't, right? He won't do that. So this is like he's a man of principle and he. If he's. If you go by the adage that Jim is always honest in this movie, he must part. Part of him must think because he keeps telling people I am not actually a gambler. This is more of a means to an end, to erase something about my. My ego, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Next, when he goes to see Lamar and Lamar tells him he's got a knee Jim Nance with a huge impact on this movie. It's rather when Jim Nance was just skipping verbs, talking about body parts. But I really like that lamarcine. I think it's good.

[Chris Ryan]

The lamarcine is really good. And his like, I'm not happy. You know why? Because I'm teaching the modern novel to a classroom full of students who don't give a fuck. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Casino blackjack with.

[Chris Ryan]

With Brie.

[Bill Simmons]

Goes to the casino with Brie, which I think is the morongo, which I've been to.

[Chris Ryan]

And I have this written down as Jim's reverse 82 point game. It's how fast can I blow?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he starts off by doubling down on an 18, demanding a three and gets it. And you just know the night's not going to go well after that happens. That is not going to be the sign that you're going to have a four hour run. That's usually super lucky. Um, I have a great shot Gordo award for this. The fast forward is super cool.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really hard gimmick to pull off. It usually fails in movies. Limitless did it too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Um, usually when people try it, it's not great.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's. It. It also does a good job of like all the different emotions people are going through, but he's completely static through.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a nitpick that's too important to wait on.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

He just shows up and he's got a shitload of money and he's just dropping whatever. Two pit bosses would be behind the dealer like asap.

[Chris Ryan]

Saying what though?

[Bill Simmons]

Just watching.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

You're just not doing that with some random dealer betting the cotton. They wouldn't be like change to 50,000. Like the whole casino would stop. Everybody would come over behind the table.

[Chris Ryan]

I was going to ask you about, like, what is it? How does it. Because I only play blackjack, like when I go for like summer league or whatever. Like I don't gamble up.

[Bill Simmons]

But Sean's playing poker by himself and you need somebody.

[Chris Ryan]

Guess I'm gonna get turns into fucking.

[Bill Simmons]

Raymond Babbitt for nine hours.

[Chris Ryan]

You're actually right. I would love to gamble, but Sean won't do it with me.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean's just listening to William Friedkin movies on audio and his headphones, he's listening.

[Chris Ryan]

Director'S commentary and playing fucking hold'em against like an 80 year old Navy veteran.

[Bill Simmons]

He's listened to the sisters Brian, diploma director.

[Chris Ryan]

Me and Zach lose $120 instantaneously and then we just go drink for the rest night. But how does it get trans around the, around the room? Oh, let's go watch this guy. He's on a heater. Or let's go watch this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

If there's that kind of money from the table, you would get the crowd behind, but you would have way more people. There would be at least 2, 3 people behind the dealer. Because normally you would bet that kind of money at the high stakes table. So if you're just sitting down with the common people, betting that there's people, they'd be watching the fucking cameras going on. I was one of my disappointments with the movie that he never liked. Did the fuck you with the camera? Because he was. He was such a fuck you kind of guy. I felt like, turn that fucking thing off. Like he didn't do any of that.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to just mention that one of the most captivating moments of my adult life was watching Bill House and Chang podcast from Caesars the day after.

[Bill Simmons]

We gambled all night.

[Chris Ryan]

The morning after Chang and House had gone out for gumbo.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I think. Did Chang sleep that night?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. So gambled all night.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And just went straight out and had gumbo in some weird Joe House spot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Off the street. And then we potted and then potted about like Chang winning a bone colored chip that he had to like go fucking show his Social Security number.

[Bill Simmons]

It's great. Chang is kind of like the.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's also when I learned about people betting into people from like, you can just be like, I'm going to bet on this guy. Like, yeah, that's fucking crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Chang's a little bit like Jim in the Gambler. Like if he has a run he's got to self sabotage it somehow. Let's go to craps. I'm just going to start betting on random. Next one. Goodman's second scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh my God, the you speech.

[Emery Cohen]

Open up two and a half million dollars.

[Michael K. Williams]

What do you got on you?

[Emery Cohen]

Nothing.

[Michael K. Williams]

What'd you put away?

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing.

[Michael K. Williams]

You get up two and a half million dollars, Any in the world knows what to do. You get a house with a 25 year roof, an indestructible Jap economy, shitbox. You put the rest into the system of 3 to 5% to pay your taxes. And that's your base. Get me? That's your fortress of fucking solitude. That puts you for the rest of your life at a level of fuck you. Somebody wants you to do something, you, boss pisses you off, you own your house, have a couple bucks in the bank, don't drink. That's all I have to say to anybody at any social level. Did your grandfather take risks?

[Emery Cohen]

Yes.

[Michael K. Williams]

I guarantee he did it from a position of fuck you.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this is my favorite.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Everyone's been there once. If you're there twice, I can't help you. Some really good wisdom in this. Do you have the brains to walk when it's time to walk? But then the big speech. I guarantee he did it from a position of fuck you. A wise man's life is based around fuck you. The United States of America is based on fuck you. You're a king, you have an army. Greatest navy in the history of the world. Fuck you. Fuck you, Blow me. We'll fuck it up ourselves. He's amazing in this scene. And I actually really agree with him. I like the position of fuck you. It's one of the. This is why both of us would defend this movie to the death. Like, this movie has great themes and thoughts in it. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's. It's like every one of these guys is either trying to entice him into a life of servitude or get him to see like what he could be, you know, and they're, they're always like kind of. They're almost like these kinds of religious or spiritual tests more than they are like bookies. And I kind of love that, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, it's a good movie trope of just random people who aren't good people but for some reason care about this other person that in real life they would just.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know why Frank cares that much. I guess the implication is that he knew Jim's dad or grandfather. The grandfather it's the, the. The Neville thing. The Michael K. Williams character is basically like I want to set up like a gambling ring that goes on for years.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the basketball game.

[Chris Ryan]

Wanted to ask you about this.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was solid.

[Chris Ryan]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually thought it was pretty realistic.

[Chris Ryan]

Just too dark.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, because I think they probably couldn't afford fans. So they had. Nowadays they would just CGI the fans. But we were still in that world of. You had like Rocky's the worst of.

[Chris Ryan]

This, where it's like, it's the lights are down, so you get it.

[Bill Simmons]

That could darken out the entire spectrum. So that was it. But I actually thought. I kind of liked his game.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who was he? Like Lamar Allen?

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's like a Proto Jabari Smith Jr. Yeah, but he's a little shorter. Rangy. No, he seems like he's like six, eight.

[Bill Simmons]

You think he's that tall?

[John Goodman]

No, they listed him. He was 6, 5. They showed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I thought he was a little more.

[Chris Ryan]

We're going to get into like what this movie communicates properly and doesn't about NCAA sports. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he was a little Demar derozani, but almost like what Shabazz following.

[Chris Ryan]

In demar's footsteps that you what Shabazz.

[Bill Simmons]

Muhammad should have been but wasn't. Like theoretical. Theoretical Shabazz Muhammad an hour and a.

[Chris Ryan]

Half being like a little bit of a young Norman Powell because he was like a slasher.

[Bill Simmons]

He was. He now he had like this inside, outside game, but he wasn't that big.

[Chris Ryan]

I had Shabazz Muhammad for such a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. Just never worked out for him.

[Chris Ryan]

Cleanthony early maybe, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Cleanthe early then. Last one, the big bet. He bets Black. Really good setup. Another great underbelly, place we get to go into and multiple people watching him. Fitz Black gets 22.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that this movie is actually saying that gambling is all chance and that there's no skill to it? Did you want like a great blackjack scene at the end of this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that always is my preference, but I don't think the movie's interested in gambling as much as self destruction. The gambling is just like a way for him to fuck up his life. I don't think it really cares about it, which is probably. That's the thing like I wanted when I watched this the first couple of times. I wanted the gambling to matter more in the movie because I love the gambling stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

But if you view it more as leaving Las Vegas or something, like he's it's just self destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so we have the same rewatchable scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Borrowing from Frank.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, that was the most rewatchable scene. Brought to you by den of Thieves 2 Pantera. Get ready for all the act, action, drama and chaos as Gerard Butler's character goes from cop to criminal in a brand new heist. See den of Thieves 2 Pantera only in theaters January 10th. Gerard Butler. I really think Al kicked his coverage for me with movies that he made. Like if you were going flight to Australia for the Australian open and they were like, we have no other movies today, I'd be like, I'm fine. That's 20 hours I'm in. It's like we just have Gerard Butler. That's it. Let's take a break and we'll come back, hit the rest of the categories.

[Jessica Lange]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. There's nothing sweeter than baking cookies during the holidays. With Prime, I get all my ingredients delivered right to my door, fast and free. No last minute store trips needed. And of course, I blast my favorite holiday playlist on Amazon Music. It's the ultimate soundtrack for creating unforgettable memories. From streaming to shopping. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. This episode is brought to you by aws. Amazon Q Business is the new generative AI assistant from aws. Many tasks can make business slow, like wading through mud.

[Bill Simmons]

Help.

[Jessica Lange]

Luckily, there's a faster, easier, less messy choice. Amazon Q can securely understand your business data to help you streamline tasks like summarizing quarterly results or doing complex analyses in no time. Q. Got this. Learn what Amazon Q Business can do for [e-mail] learnmore all right, what's the.

[Bill Simmons]

Most 2014 thing about this movie? This is easy. Young Brie Larson.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She seems like such a young pup in this and now is Brie Larson. It's just. It was just notable to watch it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. There was also like, this was an era of crime adjacent movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like focus.

[Chris Ryan]

Where they would be like, hey, Richard Schiff. Hey, Michael K. Williams. Hey, John Goodman. Yeah, we need you for like four days.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, can you come in and nail this scene? And like, you know, like, so that was like, I feel like Triple nine. Like there was a bunch of movies right around here where it was like, man, this is just like kind of trashy, but really like way more. The acting is way better than it needs to be.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, that's an interesting concept. And I wonder when that started because you think, like, when Jack Nicholson did the Joker and people were like, oh, this is cool. So you could have the biggest star of the movie, Malkovich, con error. Yeah. And then that Jack Nicholson starts the villain era, and then everybody wanted the villain part. I wonder when the DM waiters era started. Basically.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Like, I can come in and just do.

[Bill Simmons]

Because Goodman does this in flight too. So that's 2012 departed. You have a lot of, like, really good. That's 2006.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

And you have a lot of good actors in, like, small part like Baldwin's in that movie. Not that much, but just killing every scene he's in. So it's somewhere like mid 2000s when actors realize, like, this is a huge win for me if I crush these four scenes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. I'll just do this, like, weird Casey Affleck cop movie where I come in and I'm like a heroin dealer.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I mean, maybe it goes all the way back to, like, you know, Gary Oldman in a true romance show like that. That's actually a copper walking. That's when it starts.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What stage the best. A hot girl making a wait, you're gambling again. Oh, no face. When has that not worked in a movie?

[Chris Ryan]

But the funny thing is is that this relationship starts with him already in the tailspin.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So she was not like. She's not going to be like, oh, I thought I was going to start dating Jonathan Franzen here.

[Bill Simmons]

I have some more thoughts on that later. What's age the best? I always, like when in the credits when it says it was by Sheila Jaffe.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I always think she has good taste.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sheila. Not quite rewatchable's category status, but super job, Sheila.

[Chris Ryan]

Best casting, best caster.

[Bill Simmons]

I see her. I always know the movie's in good hands. How about King of Spades as an iPhone address entry?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you do anything with your iPhone where you put. Instead of the person's name, you put other stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, like a funny. Like. Like, you know, Mr. Like something for fantasy where it's like Mr. Freaking.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I have. I have some mean stuff in my phone.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's a couple of agents that I have. It's. They come up as Fuck face on my phone. And you know who you are. Agents are the worst.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that a shot at Bernie Lee?

[Bill Simmons]

No, Bernie Lee is in my phone is Bernie Lee. I like Bernie Lee. What do you have for what stage the best?

[Chris Ryan]

Because I have a few more Michael K. Williams. Yeah. Just awesome. Kind of. I forgotten that his particular. How big his part was in this movie, this most recent rewatch, and it's just so awesome watching him cook. He was. Man, that sucks. I love the connections between the scenes of where they have, like, these ideas that seem to be getting passed from scene to scene. So, like, talking about Frank, talking about, like, suicidal gamblers almost goes immediately into the Camus scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

About Jim being, like, saving the sixth bullet is something no one ever noticed except for me. And that is why I am here. And that is actually a William Monahan. Like, he was like, I noticed that. And that kind of sent me down the road of writing about literature for a while.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you had Far Wood stage the best of Moynihan dipping into old departed dialogue. Right. What did he do?

[Chris Ryan]

World needs plenty of electricians. World needs plenty of bodies.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, I'm just going to run that back also.

[Chris Ryan]

Just got to say, man, if you put a scene in Koreatown, your movie is a B. At least.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think of anytime. Koreatown is in every. And the funny thing is, when you go to Koreatown, which is one of my favorite places in LA and one of the best food places in the country, but if you're there at night, you feel like you're in a movie. No matter where you are in Koreatown.

[Chris Ryan]

If you're there during the day, you're like, jesus Christ.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. During the day, it's like, what's going on here? The. I have. The soundtrack is just funky and weird.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. John Bryan and Theo James, I think, did it.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like two M83 songs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. You big M83 guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Not really.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

But I like the way they use the music in this. You've got a BMW M1. How are you unhappy? I'm just blind in on any line like that in a movie. I know I'm in the right hands of the movie. If somebody said that somebody else. Did you write this because you believed in it or because you thought it was what people wanted? She asked him at one point, just a good idea.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And his answer was, he probably wrote that book because he thought that's what people wanted as a book, but not. It didn't come from his heart. Which I think is a big. Another big theme in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

The quick exchange that Neville and Jim have where he's like, you could go like, there's only $10,000 against it at Warner Brothers. And Neville's like, it's an indie at best. When they're talking about the adaptation of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's very good. I like Lamar's third person routine and then when he talks about himself. Third person. But my favorite is Michael K. And his. And his crew watching the point shaving game and it becomes like the first alt gambling cast.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the barstool.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is a betting shit that sets up. This is on Turner. You can watch the NBA cup quarterfinals. Or there's Jalen Rhodes and Kurt Goldsberry.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Michael K. Williams.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it just keeps cutting to him. And he's like, oh, man, what the Is he doing?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Do you think Big Cat saw this and was like this big cat? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The. All right, next category. The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most gifable moment. What'd you have for this?

[Chris Ryan]

Probably Goodman shaving his head. What do you. Did you have one?

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't. It's probably some sort of blackjack. Him losing something or. But the thing is he didn't. And I think he played it intentionally this way. But I just don't think Bernthal would have. You didn't feel the pain of any of the losses. And I think because he was trying not to have the pain, I think Bernthal would have been more interesting with it.

[Chris Ryan]

Bernthal. I actually just as soon as you were saying that it popped into my head is just after Presumed Innocent. Gyllenhaal.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like watching him go. Watching like it come up red on him and just be like, oh, fuck yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Den's Benihana Awards scene stealing location. You could go Koreatown. You go to the casino in the beginning, you go to the casino in the end. Where do you want.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I'm going to go the last casino in Koreatown. As they go down all these different levels through the weird cabaret singer. The noodle bar looks like an opium den. And then into an Internet cafe and then into the casino.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, if that place actually exists, I'm going there today.

[Chris Ryan]

DM me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Would it be weird if I took out 100,000?

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe that's where we should do our first gambling stream, right?

[Bill Simmons]

The Michael McDonald Sweet Freedom Award for best needle drop or the Kick people. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you have the choir singing creep as he's.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of breaking up with.

[Chris Ryan]

Problem I have with that was that was. Fincher used that in the trailer for Social Network.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So I felt like it was Stolen Valor. It's like you guys are coming in after he's already made that iconic closing credit.

[Bill Simmons]

Song is solid too. Is that the one you're talking about.

[Chris Ryan]

No, comic people is the one that Brie Larson's listening to when she's walking around campus. The Pulp song.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Big Kahuna Burger award for best use of food or drink. Nobody, like, eats or really drinks in.

[Chris Ryan]

This cereal eating, I guess, the cereal. When did you cut cereal out of your. Every day.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, there was that first wave of how bad cereal was for you articles, and I still held on for another seven to 10 years.

[Chris Ryan]

I still have Cheerios in the house.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife still gets it. Like, she'll do like some fiber stuff or some like, healthier stuff. So occasionally I'll just kind of lose it. Like, almost like smoking Marlboro Reds again.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like if you're gonna do it now, you might as well just go back to like honey nut, you know what I mean? Like, you might as well just have the 40 grams of sugar and say, who gives a shit? Cause it's like, I don't really want to eat a bunch of like, thumbtacks, but I'll. If somebody put frosted Mini Wheats in front of me, I would probably go after it.

[Bill Simmons]

What was your number one cereal for?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, for Cheerios.

[Bill Simmons]

Just in general.

[Chris Ryan]

I just do Cheerios.

[Bill Simmons]

I really loved Rice Krispies. Yeah, I liked hearing them crackle. I really love frosted Mini Wheats for a long time was another favorite. I liked when they would get soggy in the bottom. I can't tell you what a giant cereal guy I was in the 90s. I just have it for dinner.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Golden Graham's is one of the all time greatest tastes of my life.

[John Goodman]

I still eat cereal all the time. Big cereal guys.

[Bill Simmons]

I love cereal.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you eat healthy cereal or just regular cereal?

[John Goodman]

I've pivoted to healthy cereal.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think it really matters?

[John Goodman]

I honestly just like having like any kind of corn flake in milk. Tossing a banana. It's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Me too.

[Chris Ryan]

So also, this is one thing that is really underrated is that cereal is the perfect. Like, I have to go somewhere. Like, let's say you're going to a movie at seven. You're not going to get dinner. You get a quick bowl of cereal before you go.

[John Goodman]

It's in between a snack and a meal.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it actually does tide you over. And also, like, you know, people, my.

[Bill Simmons]

Sophomore year in college, I just basically ate cereal. And then occasionally house and I would go out and eat, but I weighed 160 pounds, pounds at one point.

[Chris Ryan]

In a good way or a bad way?

[Bill Simmons]

I was playing basketball like, five, six days a week and just eating cereal. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You're just.

[Bill Simmons]

Occasionally we'd go to, like, Papa Gino's and get all. You eat pizza. And my body was like, what's going on? What are you doing to me? I love cereal, though.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I might make a cereal comeback over the break.

[Chris Ryan]

I think we should do it. Maybe we should document it somehow.

[Bill Simmons]

I will say one thing. I'm not a huge, like. Like getting douchey about almond milk, soy milk, oat milk, all that stuff. But I do think almond milk's pretty good with cornflakes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's about as tolerable as it gets with almond milk. You want to go slightly healthier.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that if I was going to do it, I would go back full, whole milk in a bowl.

[John Goodman]

That's what I do, baby.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

Full cow's milk.

[Bill Simmons]

Which favorite kind of cereal bowl?

[Chris Ryan]

Deep.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I like the deep, high ones. Yeah. I like to dig in. I like when the cereal gets kind of soggy in the bottom.

[Chris Ryan]

In college in Boston, I lived off Kraft Mac and Cheese and cereal. Pretty much.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That was basically Frosted Flakes was another one.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would splurge every once in a while in Charlestown and go the 99 because they have, like, the $9 chicken Parmesan. Like, I'm going chicken parm tonight.

[John Goodman]

This went longer than what's aged the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Cereal's great. Should we do a cereal podcast? Yeah.

[John Goodman]

We could probably get a good video sponsorship.

[Chris Ryan]

I bet that would do very well.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like new podcast from the Ringer, the cereal podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

I think what we would have to do is do like a Huberman pod where you and I go on a pure cereal diet and see how it affects us.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's the thing about cereal. It's the most involved in people's life, but the least discussed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Everyone has, like, favorite. Least favorite cereals. This is what never talked about. Nobody would ever bring this up at dinner.

[Chris Ryan]

Jon Hamm says this about crude oil and Land Man. This is the one thing in.

[Bill Simmons]

But the other thing with cereal is, like, people of all ages eat cereal.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the. Like, your kids turn. Like, I'll be confused. They're eating cereal.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the one time where I've let the hive mind tell me what to do, where I've let groupthink. Everybody's just like, this shit is so bad for you. I'm like, I guess it's bad for me. I guess I won't eat it.

[John Goodman]

You can't eat a bowl of Captain Crunch anymore you'll, like, ruin.

[Chris Ryan]

But I should be eating Cheerios.

[Bill Simmons]

There's certain cereals that are bad, though. Like, like Froot Loop stuff with like the dye in them that, like, that's proven you can't have the way I.

[Chris Ryan]

Love Rupert Wyatt's listening to this and it's just like, I can't believe my work is finally being recognized. And then we go on a 10 minute serial.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you like Fruity Pebbles?

[Chris Ryan]

I was never a big tricks Fruity Pebbles guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you a cereal mixer? Because that was another thing I used to do.

[Chris Ryan]

I was. If you get the little boxes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And you go Lucky Charms and Apple Jacks and just like, who gives a shit?

[Bill Simmons]

Loved Apple Jacks.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Apple Jacks are still okay, right?

[John Goodman]

No, no, they're really sugary, but they're great. They taste amazing. Cereal's so good.

[Chris Ryan]

Jack, has your generation abandoned cereal? Hell no.

[John Goodman]

Honestly, people should just have it for dessert. That's. It's starting your day with it is the problem. But just have it as a dessert.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I've done a few times. I go on binges and now, unfortunately, I'm going to go on another one with cereal. Anyway, that was the big Kahuna Burger award for best use of food or drink. The Butch's Girlfriend award. Weak link of the film.

[Chris Ryan]

I like Jessica Lange. Before you say it, I think it is a choice what she's doing, but I think what she has to say in the film is quite effective.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I really like her in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, good. Just making sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know why Brie Larson's character would like Jim.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that that's a huge question. That was.

[Bill Simmons]

I just can't figure it out. First scene in the movie, she sees him fucking. I'm the self destructive bender. Yeah, he's a terrible professor. Well, you're supposed to inspire students. And he's like, you guys all fucking suck. You have no chance.

[Chris Ryan]

Script, which I read.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There is another character in the movie was supposed to be played by Leland Orser. And he's cut out, but he's like his adversary at school. And he's basically like, you're a fucking genius professor. Like, I hate you, but you are like the best of us.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's one of those. Yeah, you used to be the best. What happened?

[Chris Ryan]

But I think maybe we're catching Jim at a little bit of a low point in his professorial career. Like, I think he's supposed to be like inspiring to these people.

[John Goodman]

Why is a 20 year old bookworm at USC working at like an underground gambling ring as a waitress.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I think they.

[Chris Ryan]

The tips must be incredible.

[John Goodman]

But how did she even find that job? She's a book. Like, I feel like that she's not exploring.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she sits in the middle of class, but she's also like this illegal blackjack cocktail waitress.

[John Goodman]

And they never go back to it. She has no opinions on.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually have an answer.

[John Goodman]

Gambling.

[Bill Simmons]

In the research. In the research, they decided they just really like the Brie Larson character and they were just looking for things to shoehorn her.

[Chris Ryan]

They beefed her up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have no idea why she likes him. It makes no sense. And there's gotta be two scenes of them where they talk about cereal that's just got taken out of the final part of the.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I just think that this is a two week relationship. This goes hot and heavy. And then the second Wednesday that he's like still like moaning about how he's not Dostoevsky, she's like, I gotta try something else here.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you believe in the students getting involved with the professor as a Hollywood thing or a thing that happens in real life?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that it did happen for a very long time. I mean, there are a lot of novels about a professor who gets really horny for his student.

[Bill Simmons]

We.

[Chris Ryan]

That is like the bedrock of Philip Roth's career. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

We had one in college. A friend of mine got involved with the professor and when she told me, I was like. It was like, you could have told.

[Chris Ryan]

Me a TA or like an actual like graying professor.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it was a professor.

[Chris Ryan]

Was he an English teacher?

[Bill Simmons]

Not gonna. Not gonna give any more than that. But I was like so blown away. I was like, and you're in his class. Like, I just. I couldn't believe it.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like it happens less now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, I would hope so.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. This is probably. I have this as. Which is the worst, but like, this.

[Bill Simmons]

Is like getting involved with your professor.

[Chris Ryan]

It's kind of wild to watch this movie and be like, oh, wow. Like Brie Larson's probably 21 in this movie and he's supposed to be 40.

[Bill Simmons]

Is a degenerate fucking maniac gambler. 40 year old just getting involved with his t. Yeah.

[John Goodman]

The movie ending with him running for nine miles to a 20 year old's dorm.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Stiff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Anyway, that was a weak link for me. What do you have? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

Weak link, I thought would just be the fact that there's just not very sophisticated gambling going on. So like, I Think that when you. You don't get enough gambling movies, that we can get a gambling movie where there's just no real skill or, like, strategy deployed, that it's just like, stacking and it's just destruction. That being said, it is. It is a very, like, entertaining thing to watch to see this guy do this.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make a suggestion? You know how I always talk on the rewatchables and We've done almost 370 movies at this point about how I can't believe anyone making a sports movie wouldn't just call, maybe, do we have to start a sports movie consultancy? Whatever I have. I also think I should be gambling consultant for these because I would have told them, scrap the blackjack, go right to craps. Much more fun. As for movies, in a Vegas scene, just craps. There's more going on, there's more people, there's dice, there's things thrown in the air, there's guys pulling in. You can bet on all these different things. I just think it works better.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also like, Wahlberg lives in Nevada now. I assume he gambles. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Right back is just so generic. And they use these big square things. I don't know. The Mallory Rubin Award for. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

[Chris Ryan]

Probably not, because that would probably.

[Bill Simmons]

Because it would have been weird. She's like 20.

[Chris Ryan]

She jumps him. Yeah, but they don't. They don't show it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll never know Mallory's thoughts.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think Mal's seen this.

[Bill Simmons]

What say it's the worst. Other than stuff we've mentioned. I wrote down Wahlberg's hair. Looks like he's a 1974 right wing in the Flyers.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like Rick Tuckett.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like Dave Schultz's line, like, what the hell is this haircut?

[Chris Ryan]

I assume. I assume this was like he had come off another movie or was going on to another. And it just looks like he's got, like 18 wraparound hair, like, strands.

[Bill Simmons]

This. There's like, stuff in the back. It's just really strange.

[Chris Ryan]

The guy who plays Dexter, Emery Cohen.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down, he's like David Arquette after a stroke.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you know who he is? He was just in Rebel Ridge.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the same Emerick. Why did he play this part of Dexter like this?

[Chris Ryan]

This is right after or right around Place beyond the Pines, I think. And he was like a hot young.

[Bill Simmons]

Actor just going for it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's awesome. I love. I like it. You don't like it?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't okay. He reminds me of Timothy Hutton's brother, played by David Arquette. And beautiful girls. Hey, you think you'd be here for a while? I'm gonna go take a shit. I have two big ones.

[Chris Ryan]

He would definitely be the coolest, weirdest number two player in the country of all in tennis history.

[Bill Simmons]

Tennis players are super boring just in general. No tennis player has even half as much weird personality. Speaking of tennis, what stage the worst? Jessica Lang's tennis. Just abysmal. I don't like her outfit. They have to do the quick. The close cuts of her because she's doing a serve. She's serving like this. Like there's just nothing going on there. Would have gone golf maybe for that scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. Like. But. But that would take out Dexter being her tennis instructor, which I thought was another sort of maybe play doubles with him.

[Bill Simmons]

She had try to hide the tennis more. Just wasn't good enough.

[Chris Ryan]

Like. Well, now she's playing pickleball. Pickleball, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Or Padel.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that what it's called? Paddle.

[Chris Ryan]

I.

[John Goodman]

What are you talking about?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even know PA D. L.

[Chris Ryan]

Do they try to make pickleball sound?

[Bill Simmons]

Peter Schrager's always trying to get me to get excited about. Paddle is different game.

[John Goodman]

Or is that pickleball?

[Chris Ryan]

I thought it was pickleball.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's. It's like the kind of more tolerable pickleball.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it like squash versus racquetball version?

[John Goodman]

What kind of ball do you use?

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's more like. It's basically paddle tennis, but now they. It's. It's got a rebrand and paddle tennis is kind of fun. Pickleball should be shot into the sun. And everybody who plays it should have to atone for their sins when they die. Wood stage the worst broke college players pre nil. Now he's just. Now Lamar is just getting, you know, Chick Fil. A sponsorship.

[Chris Ryan]

The collective has come through for Lamar.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Also hard to imagine sports science being what it is that he can hide whatever's going on with his knee.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is like a 1982 plot also.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, we'd just be like. Just get surgery. You're a junior. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I had that as well. I think if he was this good, he would have come out as a sophomore.

[Chris Ryan]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

Why is he in college for three years? Get the out of there, Lamar. Go make some cash.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe he loved. He loved the works of Albert Camus and maybe the teachings of Jim Bennett.

[Bill Simmons]

Ruffalo hand and rubberneck. Partridge over acting award.

[John Goodman]

They knew and they let it happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't you call me lady.

[Jessica Lange]

I come in here, I give these things to you.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me all you got. Listen. Give me all you got. I treated you like a son. You fucking stabbed me in the heart. You.

[Bill Simmons]

You. Professor Wahlberg dialing it up.

[Chris Ryan]

The Shakespeare speech. Awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Really trying hard going.

[Chris Ryan]

Laying outside of the bank being like. Do I embarrass you?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. She's in there too. Was there a better title for this movie? No. The can you dig it award for most memorable quote. A wise man's life is based around you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you agree with this philosophy? You get a house with a 25 year roof and an indestructible Japanese economy shitbox and you put the rest in the system at 3 to 5% to pay your taxes and that's your base.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I've been telling you for six years.

[Chris Ryan]

I just gotta keep playing blackjack with it. That's why I still work for you. I need the money.

[Bill Simmons]

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest. Take a word.

[Chris Ryan]

I got one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

Is this movie more interesting if the central relationship is just Jim and Lamar?

[Bill Simmons]

We don't have Brie Larson take her out. Just she's gone.

[Chris Ryan]

Like do the new cut. There's. If you take Brie Larson and just edit her out of the movie. With all due respect, why would we do that?

[Bill Simmons]

Because I love Brie Larson.

[Chris Ryan]

Because the Lamar relationship is almost more.

[Bill Simmons]

So two more Lamar scenes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And the ethics of whether or not he can ask Lamar to do this and why Lamar is doing it. What's Lamar's deal? What does Lamar think of Shakespeare?

[Bill Simmons]

It's an interesting idea. So Lamar's just basically blown up into a much bigger character.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. You basically have like a lottery pick to be and a self destructive professor is like the kind of central relationship you kind of. Brie Larson's scenes are not integral to.

[Bill Simmons]

The story and it becomes an Adam Sandler.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I didn't give it the same.

[Bill Simmons]

With the Safdie brothers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And Lamar. And then Lamar shot at the end.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Interesting. My. My hottest take. I don't know what Wahlberg's legacy is gonna be as an actor, but he has worked with I think the best collection of very attractive actresses at the perfect times of their career. I'm just gonna go through a list and I'm not really counting Reese Witherspoon in Fear because that was a little early for her. But he did catch the Reese Witherspoon Train. Pretty early. Heather Graham, Boogie Nights. Diane Lane, Perfect Storm. Charlize, the Italian Job. Elizabeth Banks, Invincible. Kate Mara Grantland, Hero and Shooter.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Your girl. Amy Adams in the Fighter. My girl Mila Kunis and Ted and Brie Larson and the Gambler. And that's all within 20 years. Craig, it's impressive.

[John Goodman]

Great work by him.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, really, really good taste.

[Chris Ryan]

Ronda rousey in mile 22.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't have her in there.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you. Who do you think he had the best chemistry with? Because I think it might be Brie, even though I've just made the case for cutting her out of the phone. Good.

[Bill Simmons]

In pre. But I mean, Charlize in the Italian Job.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually had to replace a plasma TV because she burned out the bulb. She was so crazy hot, that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Did we do Vincent Chase?

[Bill Simmons]

No, but we can.

[Chris Ryan]

May I ask you something?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Would bookies be this permissive?

[Bill Simmons]

No. It's a lot of money.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, there's a cap on this, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, these guys all know what he's doing and it seems like obviously for the story, it makes it really interesting to give him seven days. It's got like the countdown element to it with juice. But, like, why would you give this guy $240,000? Like, is it just because they think they can then go after his mother and take her house, like, and liquidate his movie trope?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's too much money. It should, like, probably, like, 25k would be a lot. So I'm with you. Okay, we'll take a break and then we're going to do casting what ifs.

[Jessica Lange]

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[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock.

[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Bill Simmons]

Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply casting what ifs. Paramount got the rights in 2011 and it was supposed to be Scorsese and Leo and Moynihan as. Or Monahan as they call it. The. The CR Dream Team.

[Chris Ryan]

The Departed trio. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And Scorsese dropped out. Todd Phillips in there for a second.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Known to gamble from time to time. Is he in a pretty famous game in la? Oh, yeah. And. And he dropped out, and then Wahlberg and Wyatt came in.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Not a lot of casting stuff for this.

[Bill Simmons]

No. Well, that. This is. The problem is we haven't had enough time since the movie was made to.

[Chris Ryan]

Be like, all for the Internet to make up stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Ben Affleck was. Was in there.

[Chris Ryan]

This would be interesting. Affleck role. I'm sure he's a little older.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he was at the right time of his M.O. in 14. He was at the right age. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

That was like his couple years older than Wahlberg. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

They're around the same age. Yeah. Best that Guy award. It's got to be Dom from Entourage.

[Chris Ryan]

I kind of think of him as Dominic Lombardozzi. So I was going to ask you, could we throw this to Marcus Johnson as the color guy during the basketball game?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's interesting. So you think he's Dominic Lombardozzi now?

[Chris Ryan]

To me he is.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think, Craig?

[John Goodman]

None of these guys are ever Dominic Lombardozzi to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I don't. I don't think people. I think to us, he's that, but I think most people are like, hey, it's Dom from Entourage. Oh, the guy for the Wire. This guy is quite an IMDb, by the way.

[Chris Ryan]

Lombardozzi.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because you know what else he was in? You know, Miami Vice.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. He's one of the cops, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So he played. He played that. That crazy Vince's cousin character or friend, whoever. What was he Vince's friend or.

[Chris Ryan]

He was on Entourage.

[Bill Simmons]

He was his buddy. He had like a three episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's his buddy from back east, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he was Detective Stan Swiatek on Miami Vice. Yeah, he's. He was also in for Love of the Game as the tow tuck driver. Tow truck driver. He's been in a lot of rewatchables, kind of secretly. Yeah, he was in Maybe not that many. I like that guy.

[Chris Ryan]

He was in the Irishman.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He was in Bridge of Spies. Gambler.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Public Enemies. He's worked with man a couple of times. He was in swat.

[Bill Simmons]

Damn waiters. John Goodman is the winner.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Michael K. Williams is in it too much, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's. He's. He's Got like five sixteens, shout out.

[Bill Simmons]

To omega, watch guy. The guy is.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director of City. I already had Bernthal as Wahlberg. This is the Bernthal part I've wanted for seven years.

[Chris Ryan]

I think this, what. This is what American Gigolo was supposed to be for him.

[Bill Simmons]

Never got there.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You have anything for this?

[Chris Ryan]

For this. I think it would be cool if it had been like Oscar Isaac or Ethan Hawke. Like a kind of like a little bit more of a bonus.

[Bill Simmons]

You like Oscar Isaac more than me.

[Chris Ryan]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

You know why I don't like Oscar Isaac for this? Because it's not like an incredible movie. And I don't know if there's. He doesn't bring unintentional comedy for me.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a good point. Do you think Ethan Hawke would. Gyllenhaal certainly would.

[Bill Simmons]

Ethan Gyllenhaal, definitely. But now Gyllenhaal is almost shaded too far toward the end, like. And I don't even know if he's being unintentionally funny. I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he might think that, like, if you were like, can you lose some weight for this part? He'd come back looking like the guy in Nightcrawler.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And you'd be like, well, this isn't really effective.

[Bill Simmons]

Wahlberg lost 50 pounds. I'm going to lose 80. Romo Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary.

[Chris Ryan]

I see you, Mr. Allen. You're getting to your spots, making your shots and keeping the score strangely within the spread. You may have degenerative cartilage damage, but your mid range game is strong. We salute you, sir.

[Bill Simmons]

I should know that was coming. I'm just. Because he took the North Carolina job this week. I'm going to go Bill Belichick because he's not doing media anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

No, he is. You see, he's going to do McAfee still.

[Bill Simmons]

That won't last.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. I don't see that happen. Yeah, Jim's got to do better with blackjack. He's. You know, when you're stacking bets like that, you got to. You got to cash some of their chips and put them in your pocket because eventually the odds. Winning seven, eight straight bets. Not going to win eight straight bets. You're just not going to. Nobody's that good.

[Chris Ryan]

But we're on to Morongo.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody's that good at all. How fast? Center research. This was George Kennedy's last movie. Tough last movie for George. She just looks brutal. Here's one Each day in the movie, Jim's shirt color gets lighter, starts all black and starts getting lighter. And then by the end, it's white because that's.

[Chris Ryan]

And when he's finally free.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

See a lot of deep shit going on in this movie. Craig, how many pounds do you think Mark Wahlberg lost in this movie?

[John Goodman]

He's pretty thin in this movie. I bet you. I bet you he lost. No. 40.

[Bill Simmons]

He lost £61.

[John Goodman]

Cr.

[Bill Simmons]

He went from £198 to £137. Liquid food, vegetables. A workout is strictly cardio. And he wanted to be 137 because the thinnest he'd ever been for a movie was boogie nights at 1:38. And he wanted to be one pound lighter. And he said he would never, ever do this again.

[John Goodman]

He doesn't even look that bad when he's shirtless. He doesn't look like that emaciated.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, kind of heroin chic.

[John Goodman]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Basketball Diaries era.

[Bill Simmons]

Also. You mentioned this earlier, but he said it on college courses around different colleges and analyzed professors in their mannerisms.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you imagine, like, you're going to fucking the modern novel. And Wahlberg sitting there, she's like, don't mind me. You don't have to fucking look at me. Look at him. He's teaching.

[Bill Simmons]

Say hi to your mother for me. Can you imagine, like, you're like, a loyal Amarymount poli sci professor and like, Wahlberg's coming to your class for a week, and you're so excited for the gambler to see how Wahlberg.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's how it's represented.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, my God, is that what he saw? And then he wins on 22 black at the end. So in the Sting, Redford bets on the roulette wheel, and it lands on 22 black.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's cool.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if that was intentional.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sure it was. Monahan. They pretty much shot Monahan script. It's. There's scenes excised, but there's nothing really like, fundamentally changed about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain. Wahlberg. No. Lang. No. Brie Larson. No.

[Chris Ryan]

Not Blackjack. Right on screen.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the best Blackjack cereal? Well, that's an interesting point. I. They never really, like, show us what the cereal is. It looks like he's eating, like, Crackle and oat bran or something. Are we going back to cereal now?

[Bill Simmons]

I had it written down.

[John Goodman]

This is Apex Mountain for cereal conversations.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this podcast, Cereal gambling Now. Michael K. Williams now shaving points In a movie. Blue chips.

[Chris Ryan]

Blue chips.

[Bill Simmons]

Omega watches in film. Watching basketball indoors with sunglasses on that.

[Chris Ryan]

Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, definitely. We finally got one. You asked best blackjack scene. I really have to think about that and maybe come back. I don't know. I don't want to just give that answer. Just quickly.

[Chris Ryan]

This might be actually Apex Mountain for cocktail waitresses and movies. Because between Brie Larson and the woman at the horse track, when he's like. She's like, this kid's like the grandson of the 16th richest man in California. And she's like, does he drink?

[Bill Simmons]

But. So I'd be with you on that. But what about swingers?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, that's true, Dorothy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's true. Best blackjack scene in a movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's. There's Rain man, right?

[Bill Simmons]

It's probably Rain Man Casino Royale. They're playing poker. Yeah, I'd have to think I'll have an answer in a later pod. I really want to research this because I don't want to leave anything out open.

[Chris Ryan]

Guess the lines with Rain man is the best.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Hangover.

[Chris Ryan]

Do they actually play that much Hangover?

[John Goodman]

They do it, but they're just making fun of Rain Man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they play poker in California. Split. Right. All right.

[Bill Simmons]

I just googled this. 21 was a movie built around blackjack.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. The Kevin.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't really like that movie that much, though. And then, man, really not a lot of great black. I'm sure there is. Maybe the. Maybe the listeners will have one.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I think it's mostly poker because poker actually takes strategy and skill in the hands. Half, like, arcs to them, whereas blackjack's.

[Bill Simmons]

Just like, oh, maybe somebody someday will make the movie about my blackjack career where eventually all my friends leave and it's three in the morning and they're vacuuming under my Kobe comes back. Yeah. Jacob's like, how are you still awake?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruise or Hanks?

[Chris Ryan]

This is easily cruise to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Easily. This is the easiest cruise in a while. And it made me think like this, actually. It would have been incredible. Incredible cruise. What year, though? What year of Cruise?

[Chris Ryan]

After, like, 92,002. Like the firm era.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I go younger.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How. How old do you want him to be?

[Chris Ryan]

Like 35? Is that too? So what. How old is he?

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe right after Jerry Maguire, like Vanilla Sky Cruise.

[Chris Ryan]

Right around nine.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, I think you're right. Decided Cruz needed it. So He's. Now he's three back.

[John Goodman]

Yep. 19 to 16. Has Cruz ever been a professor? I would love to see Cruz Molding young minds.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, he does that. He teaches. He teaches film to all of us.

[Bill Simmons]

He's been a student in Cocktail.

[John Goodman]

Yeah, he's been a lawyer, but he's never been a teacher. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz doing the first.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he's a teacher in Top Gun. Maverick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, he is.

[Chris Ryan]

He's an instructor.

[John Goodman]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Racehorse, rock band, wrestler or fantasy team name? I'll give you Lamar's Point. Shavers or King of Spades?

[Chris Ryan]

I had Mr. Lee's.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Picking it.

[Chris Ryan]

Got a few.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Lamar needs a senior year to boost his draft stock with that. What is this, 1974? Right, like that. What was the last year anyone said those words with college basketball? He's his second round sports consultants right here. Come on. Wahlberg gets the shit beaten out of him. I think three times more severely than his actual injuries.

[Chris Ryan]

The Korean nail place where he gets fucking drop kicked.

[Bill Simmons]

Multiple broken ribs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Concussion.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he has a broken orbital bone at one's point. Definitely. Maybe a hairline fracture of the skull. Concussion. He's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

You're absolutely right.

[Bill Simmons]

What else would you have?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, crucial sports czar error is that Neville says Lamar is playing Michigan. And then when they actually get to the game, the team he's playing against is the Bulldogs, which is not Michigan. Wolverines. And it's also in conference. It's the conference semifinal.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I didn't even.

[Chris Ryan]

And I'm like, come on. I mean, now USC and big and Michigan are in the Big Ten together. But in 2014, this wasn't happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Great one.

[Chris Ryan]

How does Jim know that Amy is this genius? Like, how many pieces has he read by her that he's like, she is the one person in this generation who's actually talented.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know, because it's a lit class.

[Chris Ryan]

So how much, like, is he just reading her, like, essays and stuff?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we need a scene where he's at his desk reading the paper.

[Chris Ryan]

The only other thing is that Frank doesn't really live by his teachings. Because if you're in a position of fuck you, like, why are you also a loan shark? That seems like an unnecessary.

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you helping people who aren't going to pay you back? Yeah, I. My two big ones. So they just give Lamar. They're going to fix the game. Hey, we put that. We put a big giant bag of cash in your locker. It's not suspicious at all. Well, I was a giant, big gym bag right in the locker.

[Chris Ryan]

Since we're talking about the basketball game, can I do two of my unanswerable questions that are also nitpicks. What was Jim's best?

[Bill Simmons]

So it's, oh, I have all this later.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, all right, I'll do it in unanswered br. All right. What's the other question?

[Chris Ryan]

What would happen if Danny Hurley had been coaching that team? God damn it, Lamar. There's no way Lamar gets back in the game. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Bill Simmons]

Sinking to his knees.

[Chris Ryan]

He's fucking crying because Lamar missed a mid range jumper, didn't run horns properly.

[Bill Simmons]

The giant bag of cash in the locker is ludicrous.

[Chris Ryan]

Should I bring. Should I make Danny Hurley the new way?

[Bill Simmons]

Throw him in there. You had. You had to commit to it, though, and fall to the ground. End of Lamar's game. So they're up 7. It's like 5, 7. Then they have the ball near the end. The other team's not fouling and they're also not dribbling out the clock. Yeah, it's idiotic.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's going early possession shoot shots when all you have to do is like choke the game out.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, like, sports consultant yet again. Can't believe I'm not hired for these. The move should have been they foul Lamar with like three seconds left, up seven, and he goes to the line and you don't know whether he's going to make it or not. And he's shooting the free throw. And then it cuts to Michael K. Williams celebrating. How come instead it was like, oh, he's just going to shoot up seven with one second left. Like, what the fuck is this? Never happened.

[Chris Ryan]

Why is it that when Lamar's practicing on his own, he's like playing in the gym that Zoe used to play middle school basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

He's supposed to be at usc. It's supposed to be like a Giant Gym sequel prequel. Prestige tv, all black cast are untouchable. There's a prestige TV case for this movie. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I would love some big ideas. A show about Los Angeles's underground gambling culture and bookies. But like a professor, it's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't David Chang.

[Chris Ryan]

Sounds unbelievable when John Goodman shows up at Major Domo and he's like, I will fucking take this place over.

[Bill Simmons]

I am not here for the BS Fries. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Danny Hurley, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, J.T. walsh, Nell Baron Mayo, Harley Mays, Evil Laughing Ramon, Raymond Longlegs, or Phil Baker Hall? Should we get rid of a couple of these before the end of the year?

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do a little bit of Accounting. Here, here. Let's do an audit. Who.

[Bill Simmons]

Who has never won the. Sid Goldberg. Maybe we. We had a nice run with Sid.

[Chris Ryan]

I. Nobody. We have never done Raymond. Ramon.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All right. I'll get rid of him. It's fair.

[Chris Ryan]

I like it, but it's just like we've never done that. I think J.T.

[Bill Simmons]

Walsh, I guess we could get rid of. Yeah, sorry, J.T. sid Goldberg we could probably get rid of.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. He's pretty obscure.

[Bill Simmons]

Wayne Jenkins. Dana Treo. Sam Jackson. Nell Byron Mayo. Harley Mays, Long Legs. Or Philip Baker Hall.

[Chris Ryan]

Or Danny Hurley.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Danny Hurley. Danny Hurley for any sports movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Jesus Christ.

[Bill Simmons]

What the fuck are we doing?

[Chris Ryan]

Are you hitting on 18? Get the over him. That's a pretty obscure cut for people who don't follow UConn's Maui Invitational press conference.

[Bill Simmons]

We need somebody else at the ringer to hold you back from the microphone as you're. As you're screaming. I would say Sam Jackson in this movie wouldn't have been a bad movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Sam Jackson is Neville, and Sam Jackson and Goodman in the same movie would have been awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'm trying to think, what Sam Jackson could he have been like? How do we work him in?

[Chris Ryan]

He could be. Andre Brower is in one scene in this movie as the Dean.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was another one. Like, why do we have Andre Brower for one?

[Chris Ryan]

There was more Dean stuff in the script, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, just one Oscar. Who gets it? Goodman. All right, I have some really good unanswerable questions. So Jim wrote a book called Uphill Both Ways that they show the COVID of. What was this book about? Book of fiction. Uphill Both Ways. What does that even mean?

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder whether it's like, tries. It's like, supposed to be like a demon, Copperhead, like, working class tale. But it just didn't ring true because it wasn't really like, what his experience.

[Bill Simmons]

Was or you don't think it was like an adult Catcher in the Rye?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, that's what he is, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

As long. I wonder, what do you. Would you read a book called Uphill Both Ways?

[Bill Simmons]

I would never read any book like that. Ever. No. The answer is no. Is 2.5 million really? Fuck you, money.

[Chris Ryan]

Because in 2014.

[Bill Simmons]

Because John Goodman really felt committed to that specific figure. It wasn't two, it wasn't three.

[Chris Ryan]

I've been up two and a half million.

[Bill Simmons]

So he. So John Goodman just decides, that's a great number. I'm good at. I'm good with that. Okay. How many miles does he jog at the end. Because it seems like he goes from Koreatown.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think it's that.

[Bill Simmons]

All the way to the arts district.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I think she lives in. It's the lo. What is it like the Los Alos Apartments. I don't know if that's real.

[John Goodman]

Yeah, that's what they're called, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

But those actually exist. Los Altos Apartments.

[Chris Ryan]

It's on Wilshire.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Wilshire and what?

[Chris Ryan]

It's on Wilshire and Bronson.

[John Goodman]

Yeah, like Wilshire and Wilton.

[Chris Ryan]

So it's actually not that far of a run.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like a one mile run. What are they doing at some point? At one point he's in downtown LA for some reason.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I know, I know. I think he run all the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Down here and then run back.

[Chris Ryan]

I think they say it's Koreatown. And he actually starts down by like grand street or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Or maybe he's in. But they say Koreatown though, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe he's so fucking hungry the entire time that he runs down into downtown by accident.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it possible he's in Chinatown?

[Chris Ryan]

No, they said it's Koreatown. They're like, come to the Koreatown to.

[Bill Simmons]

That, to Los Altos. That's like a mile.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, like you said, a very exciting mile.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus. Feel completely disillusioned by this. All right, I figured out exactly how much money G Mode ready?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He had the Korean 200, 000. He owed Michael K60K. He got 260K from Frank with 10% juice. And he got 100K from the Korean with 10% juice. And he had to pay Lamar 150K before the game, which gave him 210K left.

[Chris Ryan]

Then he gives, but.

[Bill Simmons]

But he owed three hundred and ten. Two hundred and eighty six and sixty. So he owed $656,000. And he had two hundred and ten left, which you bet on the basketball game.

[Chris Ryan]

He also gives Dexter 50 grand.

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't gotten that yet. He wins on the basketball game. Bets 210 to win 200 on the basketball game. So now he's got 410. So he pays the 60K to Michael K. He's got 350 left, but he owed 596 to the two bad guys. Offers 50K to Dexter, doesn't take it. So he still has the 350.

[Chris Ryan]

Also Dexter being like, I'm going to go pro in tennis and I'm going to maybe make 50.

[Bill Simmons]

Dexter's a Ryan, terrible character. Bets 350 on black and wins. So he now he has 700. Everyone gets paid and then some. Which is why Goodman at the end says, I got an extra hundred for you, because. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the cream on top. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So he actually won more money than he owed, which I think is very stealth in the movie. But it's what happened.

[Chris Ryan]

He just wants to be free. He doesn't want to actually be.

[Bill Simmons]

So he gives those guys the extra, and then Goodman gets it. And that, I think, is how the money shook out.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so what. What was. What was that Michigan game, the Lamar game paying out then?

[Bill Simmons]

So he paid Lamar 150. And his cut was probably 150, which is. I would say they probably got 30 to 35% of the cut. So maybe those guys each won 500K, something like that. Because if you're getting paid out, it's.

[Chris Ryan]

A big enough bet that Neville knows about it after the fact, where he's like, I heard somebody showed up in Vegas and, like, smashed this, like, the money line or whatever it was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice two for the money or the original gambler.

[Chris Ryan]

Original gambler.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which first or second?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I watched the Jim Khan. Jimmy Khan movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but would you watch it first or second?

[Chris Ryan]

I would watch this second as, like, a pallet cleanser because the Jimmy Khan movie is very, like, very, very serious.

[Bill Simmons]

The Indian Red Zawant Award for what happened the next day.

[Chris Ryan]

So Jim.

[Bill Simmons]

I just wrote down Jim get dumped.

[Chris Ryan]

Jim gets canceled. What's the fucking social media gets a hold of Jim. It's like this guy slept with a student and.

[Bill Simmons]

And fixed the game.

[Chris Ryan]

Shaved college basketball, PAC 10, like, conference game. And then also he gets driven insane when Amy writes, like, a Sally Rooney novel and becomes hugely famous, and he's just.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even think they make it that long.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What piece of memorability would you want from this movie? I could offer you the sunglasses. I could offer you the duffel bag that held the 50 Jessica Lang's tennis racket.

[Chris Ryan]

Could I get Jim's, like, Topanga House? Topanga Canyon house or Beachwood Canyon?

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty nice.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, it's a pretty cool house.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it Laurel? Like, where is he living?

[Bill Simmons]

It feels like a little beechwoodish.

[John Goodman]

You don't want uphill both ways.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's true.

[Chris Ryan]

I want uphill both ways.

[Bill Simmons]

The actual book of Uphill both ways. Yeah. That's good.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that it's featured in the hallway of the. Of the English department.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach Finstack. Aware. Best life lesson, always be in a fuck you position.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I actually said you owe somebody money. Don't fuck around.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Who won the movie?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going to say Monahan, the screenwriter. Just because this is, like, unvarnished his thing. I think that a lot of, like, the characters are speaking from his pov. These are his, like, riffs on society and existence. And I think it's more or less a vehicle for, like, his. His kind of musing. So I'm gonna go William Monahan.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

You go Goodman.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think I am.

[Chris Ryan]

Because it's. I love that Goodman part. Isn't that good if it's like, movie falls apart. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If it's overacting. Yeah, yeah. Somebody trying too hard. All right. Craig had never seen this movie. It did come out in the last 10 years, which is a bonus. What were your thoughts?

[John Goodman]

Yeah, I had never heard of it. I don't know if that is that surprising to you, that I think that.

[Chris Ryan]

There'S a lot of probably mid tens movie that fall into obscurity before you start, like, watching stuff.

[John Goodman]

Yeah. As usual, I like this movie more after hearing you guys talk about it for 90 minutes. But it's more memorable. It will be more memorable than it. Than it deserves to be. I think for me, it's kind of the Jordan pool of movies. But parentheses, complimentary, because, like, the movie puts up 34, but a very inefficient 3412 for 28. 34 points. But, like, a couple incredible threes gets punched once.

[Chris Ryan]

Absolutely. Like, backbreaking turnovers.

[John Goodman]

Yeah, Right. But there are moments like the highlights are great and. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think that there are misses in this movie, but ultimately what I like is that there are five really good actors kind of just playing dress up and going for it. And ultimately I respect that. And I think I see less and less of that nowadays. And, like, watching Mark Wahlberg, Goodman, Michael K. Brie Larson, all these people being like, yeah, we're gonna try to win an Oscar and we're gonna really go for it in kind of an overwritten gambling movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

It's just. It's just fun to see them all collectively agreeing to do it.

[Chris Ryan]

There was. There used to be, like, a Howard Hawks saying about, like, how many good scenes a movie needed for the movie to be good. This has enough to make me rewatch it. You know what I mean? Like, I think that you need five to.

[Bill Simmons]

I also think five years from now, you're gonna be like, I really like this movie.

[John Goodman]

I think so, too. I think the movie to me. Hinges. It became unintentionally funny when his big speech as a professor in the. In the classroom, like, he wanted that to, like, in his head. That's like the Lydia Tarr scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

But it doesn't play. And I think after that, you're like, okay, this is now a different movie in my head.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

Still very memorable, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

He obviously did a lot of research. I've made this joke before when talking about this, but, like, he's. He's almost like he's reading phonetically.

[John Goodman]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I don't know that he knows what he's saying in that scene as an actor.

[Bill Simmons]

Whereas, like, Bernthal would have crushed it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

Or.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Ruffalo would have been slick with it.

[John Goodman]

I almost don't even know what he's saying because he's running through it so fast. Like, he's memorized it and he's trying.

[Chris Ryan]

He's emphasizing weird parts of his speech. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like when. When we found out that the lady Colin Farrell hooks up with, the Miami Vice didn't speak English and memorized all the phonetic sounds of her dialogue. And I was like, oh, okay. Maybe that's what Mark Wahlberg did.

[Chris Ryan]

Possibly. That's a good point.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. That review didn't surprise me at all. Cause I didn't really like this movie that much the first time I saw it. But it kept my interest and made me more mad than anything. And now, 10 years later, I've arrived at a great place.

[Chris Ryan]

This is just a really good, like, Sunday afternoon. There's nothing to watch. The 4:00 NFL games suck. Just throw this on. You won't be sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll tell you another thing about this movie. People are watching it.

[Chris Ryan]

Are they?

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's always on in the Showtime bundle if you're flicking the cable guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

It's on Paramount.

[Bill Simmons]

It's on Paramount.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's. I think it's. It's out there. It reminds me of what happened with Focus, which was another movie that I don't think did that. We did that on the rewatch, too, but that was another one that. It was like. Like, I think I like that, but it had some flaws.

[Chris Ryan]

Truth is that you and I are very easy dates. If it's about sports or gambling.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Or the criminal underbelly.

[Chris Ryan]

Or the criminal underbelly of either. Yeah.

[John Goodman]

I think Focus exploded on streaming in.

[Bill Simmons]

The last year because of Margot Robbie.

[John Goodman]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And Will Smith because he punched Chris Rock. Cr. A pleasure as always, Craig and Jack, thank you for producing. You can watch this on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

[Chris Ryan]

And we will see subscribe to Ringer Serial if you haven't gotten a chance yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Ringer Cereal, Ringer tv, Ringer Movies.

[John Goodman]

Yeah. Ten years ago, what really started podcasting was Cereal the podcast. And now it's a new one.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Goodman]

Just spelled a little differently.

[Bill Simmons]

And we have an actual Christmas movie next week.

[John Goodman]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Very excited about that. See you then.