The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Summary

The Rewatchables: The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Release Date: January 7, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Rewatchables, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan delve deep into the intricacies of the action-packed film Den of Thieves. As seasoned movie enthusiasts from The Ringer universe, the trio revisits their previous discussions on the original film and explores the nuances of its sequel, Den of Thieves 2 Pantera. Their analysis offers both fresh perspectives and nostalgic reflections, making it a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Overview of Den of Thieves

The conversation kicks off with a brief recap of why Den of Thieves stands out in the heist genre. Bill Simmons highlights the film’s ability to blend intense action with complex character dynamics, setting the stage for an in-depth exploration. Chris Ryan emphasizes the film's structural brilliance, noting how it’s divided into distinct segments that keep viewers hooked from start to finish.

Character Analysis

Gerard Butler as Ray Merriman

Gerard Butler reprises his role as Ray Merriman, delivering a performance that Simmons describes as "unbelievable". The hosts commend Butler's transformation, especially his physical commitment—gaining 25 pounds for the role—which adds depth to his character's gritty persona. Van Lathan appreciates Merriman's multifaceted nature, highlighting his adherence to a personal code despite his criminal activities.

Van Lathan on Character Dimensions

Van Lathan draws parallels between Merriman and characters from other iconic films like Training Day, appreciating the moral ambiguity that muddles audience allegiances. He points out Merriman’s vulnerability, which contrasts sharply with more one-dimensional protagonists like those in Heat. This complexity makes Merriman a compelling antagonist who evokes both admiration and frustration.

Comparisons to Other Films

Heat and Triple Frontier

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the film's similarities to Michael Mann's Heat. Chris Ryan defends Den of Thieves against criticisms of being a Heat ripoff, instead branding it as "the Sons of Heat". They explore how Den of Thieves elevates the heist genre by intertwining personal vendettas and military precision, distinguishing it from its predecessors.

Fast and Furious and The Fast Five Connection

The hosts humorously compare the film’s elaborate heist sequences to those in the Fast and Furious franchise. Van Lathan expresses a desire for future sequels to balance out the over-the-top antics with more grounded plots, suggesting that not every heist needs to reach outer space or involve alien technology.

Technical Aspects

Action and Heist Mechanics

Bill Simmons praises the film’s kinetic energy, particularly its meticulously crafted heist scenes. The trio discusses the technical prowess required to execute such complex sequences, from tunnel breaches to strategic shootouts. They commend the film for maintaining tension through well-paced action and strategic plot twists.

Cinematography and Scene Crafting

The hosts delve into the film’s cinematography, appreciating the drone shots and dynamic camera movements that enhance the storytelling. Chris Ryan highlights the importance of knowing where you are in the film, a testament to the movie's careful scene structuring and narrative clarity.

Notable Scenes Discussed

Benihana Scene

One of the standout moments they analyze is the Benihana restaurant scene. Bill Simmons lauds the scene for its blend of tension and dark humor, where Merriman casually consumes a bloody donut amidst chaos. Van Lathan points out the scene’s effectiveness in showcasing Merriman's nonchalant nature and the crew's unshakable composure under pressure.

Donut Store Robbery

The opening robbery at the donut store serves as a critical plot device, illustrating the meticulous planning and high stakes involved. Chris Ryan breaks down the scene's intricacies, questioning the feasibility of the heist's logistics while appreciating its role in setting the film's tone.

Final Shootout and Coda

The concluding shootout sequences receive high praise for their intensity and emotional weight. The hosts describe the ending as "perfect cinema," where action, revelation, and resolution intertwine seamlessly. They commend the film for sustaining its momentum until the very end, leaving a lasting impression on the audience.

Critique and Praise

Script and Dialogue

Bill Simmons and Van Lathan commend the film’s script for its inventiveness and dialogue, which balances high-octane action with character-driven moments. However, they also engage in playful nitpicking, discussing minor plot inconsistencies and technical inaccuracies that, while present, do not detract significantly from the overall experience.

Acting Performances

Gerard Butler's portrayal of Merriman is lauded for its depth and authenticity. The trio also highlights O'Shea Jackson Jr.'s stepping up in the sequel, adding new dimensions to the ensemble cast. Pablo Schreiber's role is praised for its complexity and the tension it brings to the narrative.

Notable Quotes

• Bill Simmons (05:18): "This movie did well in the theater. But then, you know, one of the reasons we have this podcast, it gets a second life of its own. This is gonna be one of those movies where the sequel does better than the original."

• Van Lathan (05:34): "And Gerard Butler. I wanna know who Gerard Bullet think won the Jay Z versus Nas beef. And so that's okay."

• Chris Ryan (06:34): "What happens is I'll send you the text. I'll be like, have you seen Den of Thieves? I'm gonna get around to it."

• Van Lathan (14:16): "I have the problem with the prison system. Why are you talking to him like that?"

• Bill Simmons (21:28): "What you mean?"

These quotes exemplify the hosts' candid and humorous take on the film, blending insightful critique with personal anecdotes and light-hearted banter.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with the hosts expressing their enthusiasm for a potential sequel, Den of Thieves 2 Pantera. They speculate on plot developments, character arcs, and the film's enduring appeal. Bill Simmons emphasizes the film's unique position in the heist genre, questioning why more movies haven't emulated its blend of action and character complexity.

Chris Ryan and Van Lathan conclude by appreciating the film's ability to maintain kinetic energy and audience engagement, solidifying its status as a Rewatchable. They encourage listeners to share their thoughts and participate in upcoming mailbag segments, fostering a community-driven discussion around beloved films.

Overall, this episode of The Rewatchables offers a comprehensive and entertaining analysis of Den of Thieves, celebrating its strengths while playfully critiquing its flaws. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual viewer, the hosts provide valuable insights that enhance your appreciation of the film.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

What's up everybody? Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the Mismatch.

[Chris Ryan]

And huge welcome as well to my.

[Bill Simmons]

New co host, Dave Jacoby.

[Van Lathan]

I can't wait to link with you twice a week, every Tuesday and Friday right here on the Mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Van Lathan]

And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's Ringernba. And check out the full Mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting right on The Ringer NBA YouTube channel.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode of the Rewatchables is brought to you by den of Thieves 2 Pantera. If you love the first one and how can you not, the sequel is here to blow things up, literally and figuratively. Gerard Butler is back, rough as ever and and O'Shea Jackson Jr. Is stepping up too. The twist is Butler's character once in on the heist, yeah, the cop turns gangster. Get ready for more action, more suspense and pure chaos. See den of Thieves 2 Pantera only in theaters January 10th. This episode is brought to you by Conclave, one of AFI and NBR's best pictures of the year. You know those movies that stick with you well, the brand new film Conclave feels like one of those. It's directed by Edward Berger, the mind behind All Quiet on the Western front. It's a thrower that takes you behind the Vatican walls during the high stakes election of a new Pope. Ralph finds unbelievable as Cardinal Lawrence leading a powerhouse cast including Isabella Rossellini, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow. Critics are calling it hands down the best picture of the year. Bill Simmons is calling it really, really, really good. Learn more at focusfeaturesguilds2024.com Conclave the Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find all the new episodes that we do on this feed on Our Ringer Movies YouTube channel has a lot of the old episodes as well. Some fun clips, the Big Picture with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins and some of the extra movie stuff that we've been doing. You can subscribe and you'll get all of it by subscribing to Ringer Movies. You can subscribe to my YouTube channel as well. The Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Speaking of me, you can send us any suggestions, ideas, whatever you want for the Rewatchables, because I think we're doing Mailbag pretty soon. So I have a good batch of stuff already. But if you want to send anything else along the way, you can send it to therewatchables33mail.com what you're about to listen to. We taped a couple weeks ago. We loved the movie Den of Thieves. We'd already done it on the Rewatchables. A few years ago, we decided to do it again. We were trying to actually experiment with something in the. In the LA Spotify office. We had a smaller crowd, and we were just. We're just in the experimenting phase. I don't know what to tell you, but we decided to do Den of Thieves again. And it's me, and it's Van Lathan and it's Chris Ryan. And the reason we did it is because den of Thieves 2 is coming out on Friday, and we were excited about it. So we were like, you know what? Screw it. Do Dennis Thieves one again. So that's what we did. You're about to listen to it. Let's play the trailer for old time's sake. The Federal Reserve seem like the whole.

[Van Lathan]

City go against me. Holy bank that's never been robbed every time I'm in the street.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why we're gonna rob him.

[Van Lathan]

I hear.

[Bill Simmons]

There'S $800 billion in there. They're casing the joint from the inside. How you gonna get out of this one?

[Van Lathan]

Keep watching.

[Bill Simmons]

Den of Thieves. Rated R.

[Chris Ryan]

What's up?

[Van Lathan]

Yo, yo.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, we'll see how long I can keep the jacket on. It might get hot up here, but I want.

[Bill Simmons]

Could get hot after a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

The official Den of Thieves Pantero jacket.

[Bill Simmons]

It's unbelievable. Yeah. CR was like a kid on Christmas when he saw that on. On the sofa. Thank you to Lionsgate. Thank you to Den of Thieves. To Pantera. Because that's why we. We rarely do this where we've already done the Rewatchables episode, and we say, fuck it, let's do it again. So we did this the first time. What was it, 2018? Pre Covid.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And, you know, we didn't have a lot of the categories in. We didn't have. Van was.

[Van Lathan]

I was the ringer yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Van loves this movie, so. So we just said, screw it, let's run it back. This is a movie, the sequel, which we knew was coming.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. At the end of den of Thieves 1, it's alluded to the idea that there's more to this story and that it'll take place across the Atlantic.

[Bill Simmons]

Dane, you said something interesting when we were hanging around before the Slow Burn movie that hits on cable or wherever. And it does a certain whatever in the theater. This movie did well in the theater. But then, you know, one of the reasons we have this podcast, it gets a second life of its own. This is gonna be one of those movies where the sequel does better than the original.

[Van Lathan]

Of course, the two reasons why I was interested in it, one is cause they all went on the Breakfast Club. And I love it when white people go on the Breakfast Club. So I see this list of people on the Breakfast Club and it's like 50 Cent, Pablo Shriver.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And Gerard Butler. I wanna know who Gerard Bullet think won the Jay Z versus Nas beef. And so that's okay. The movie's interesting. And then to a man, every single person that had seen the movie was like, yo, man, you gotta see Den of Thieves. Like, Den of Thieves is actually crazy. And I watched it and I'm like, I'm vibing with these characters, man. This is my type of joint.

[Bill Simmons]

CR youR're the reason I saw this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, we've known each other a long time. Since 2011, I would say seven, eight times in my life. With you, you just send me a text and be like, bill, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

What happens is I'll send you the text. I'll be like, have you seen Den of Thieves? I'm gonna get around to it. Then if I see you in person, I pull you aside, I put my hand on your shoulder and I say, hey, have you seen Den of Thieves? And you're like, I'm gonna do it this weekend. And then 10 days later, I get a text that says, huh, Den of Thieves on watch number three in ten. Thieves.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

And the thing about this movie is it essentially has these three chunks, right? It's got everything up until Merriman is like, we're cop killers now. And you're like, holy shit. And then it's got the middle part where you're like, this is amazing. I want this to go on for five hours.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then it has the last hour and six minutes, which is just hard as anything else. And has three robberies or three shootouts, essentially. And you can watch any given part in any order. And you can just. As soon as one's on, you're just like, I'm in. I'm watching the whole thing.

[Van Lathan]

And the movie legitimately keeps you off balance?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Like, there are three or four different times. Like, when I was first watching the movie, I'm like, oh, shit. Like, what's about to happen? When they pass each other when he's at the house with the girl, I thought it was gonna go down right then. Then the same question that he asked him when he's. When they're in the bank, he goes, how are you gonna get out of this one? That's what the fuck I was thinking.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I was like, there's no way to get out of this situation. Like, he's cooked. But the movie keeps you off balance and keep you off the balance until the payoff is just immense at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it starts out, we get the card at the top.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

2,400 times a year, 44 times a week, nine times a day, every 48 minutes, it's just flashing up. A bank is robbed here, and then it goes away, and then it comes back.

[Chris Ryan]

That's like the.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the bank robbery or capital of the world. I'm like, all right, I'm in.

[Chris Ryan]

That's. That's the text equivalent of when Billy Bob Thornton is talking about fossil fuels on land managers.

[Van Lathan]

Like, absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

I believe it. And it's the same thing for the text. The text is just like, all right, I guess I don't witness bank robberies. Every 44 days, I'm about to say.

[Van Lathan]

Where they happening at? They happen all over the place. I ain't seen one yet.

[Bill Simmons]

48 minutes. Every 48 minutes. Feels a lot. Feels like a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be like, every time you go to the bank, there's a 1 in 8 chance the thing's gonna get robbed.

[Van Lathan]

I think about that. I'm like, yo, man, online forever. I don't want to be in the middle of it.

[Bill Simmons]

It would be funny if that was completely made up. And it was just like, I wonder if they'll believe this.

[Van Lathan]

They put it in front of a movie, and then, like, you repeat it without verifying it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You had a party somewhere, being like, I bet you didn't notice. Every 48 minutes in Los Angeles, a bank is running.

[Bill Simmons]

So, cr. Do your thing about a crime movie versus the heist movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. Well, this is, like, I talked about this on the first one, but there was, like, this idea that a crime movie is essentially the culture around crime. So in some ways, I think, like, Heat is actually, like, a really good crime film because it's not just about these guys pulling a bank job. It's about why they're pulling a bank job. It's all the circumstances that led them to this moment where they're pulling it. Ocean's Eleven is a heist movie because it's about the mechanics of pulling off a heist. It's about all the little layers of how they're gonna get into the casino. And Den of Thieves is both. It's about the culture of what led these guys to this moment. And LA and the LA crime scene. But then it's also about this super elaborate breaking into one bank to tunnel into another bank to sneak out with Chinese food and get $30 million in shredded money.

[Van Lathan]

It's also a movie, to me, that, like, examines a culture that I wasn't familiar with yet. Now, we ended up getting a whole bunch of information on cliques and organizations inside of the LA Sheriff's Department, but at that point, I didn't really know much about. And to see those guys on screen like that, it was almost like Alonzo's people from Training Day, but if they had a little bit more of an actual code and aim to stop crime. So the ambiguity of what in this movie is actually criminal, it muddles who you want to win. And that, as much as anything else in the plot, keeps you off balance throughout the whole movie, too, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you mentioned Heat, so the biggest criticism of this movie with the douchey people who reviewed it, they know who they are, they're in the wrong, was that it was a Heat ripoff. We prefer to think of it. It's the Sons of Heat. Right. Triple Frontier, this movie. What are the other Sons of Heat? Because he comes out in 1995, and there's a bunch of movies that are clearly influenced in different ways.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, they've influenced pretty much every movie that's come from it. I mean, like, and our movie that came afterwards, I mean, you could go as big as Dark Knight, or you could say something like Triple Nine, or There's just tons of crime movies that have come out that have referenced it. I think that the thing that this movie really grabbed onto was the idea that Heat has. But this movie takes to another level, too, is just this, like, the robber and the cop being on these paths that are gonna collide at some point.

[Van Lathan]

That they're essentially the same person, that their obsession with whatever it is that they're doing clouds their judgment and infiltrates every single part of their life.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And in some ways, Merriman is more principled than in this movie. So they have the kind of like, who are you watching? Who Are you rooting for? I think, fades and changes throughout the film, but then they twist everything with this Usual Suspects plot with Donnie. Right. So that's the thing that I think is the curveball that keeps you off balance throughout the movie is this like, why is. We keep going back to the driver? We keep going back to Donnie. I know it's an important actor and everything, but what's happening here. And it's only until the last shot. Keyser Soze styled it.

[Van Lathan]

And something else about Heat that's a little different here is that obviously in Heat you have Cheherless, who is like all problems. Right? He's like going through it, whatever. But Neil and the Pacino character are pretty invincible. I mean, they go through things, right. But they're pretty one dimensional in terms of.

[Chris Ryan]

They're samurais. They're like, this is what I do.

[Van Lathan]

Right. These characters are not like, guy in the middle of divorce talking to his daughter through a fence. He's crying. You have O'Shea Jackson's character, and you took it off already, brother.

[Chris Ryan]

It gets hot up here.

[Bill Simmons]

Knew that was gonna happen.

[Van Lathan]

But anyway, most of these characters, they have different dimensions to them where you see a little weakness and vulnerability from them.

[Bill Simmons]

Sons of Heat. We left that. The town.

[Chris Ryan]

The town. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was another one. So I had crime movie versus heist movie, A bank robbery movie for bank robbery fans.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some touches you really have to.

[Chris Ryan]

Love, like watching non majors golf. You know, it's like, I just really, really like watching Max.

[Bill Simmons]

The culture. Yeah, the culture. Rabbit banks and then just a lot of alpha male stare downs. And you mentioned one of them before, but this movie, you could have maybe done two stare downs and they have like four.

[Van Lathan]

The entire film is like one gigantic dick measuring contest.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You have Beni Hana. You have the Gun Ranch. You have in the prom date. Well, you. You then you have the. The day after when Pablo Schaber's.

[Van Lathan]

You have literally the lowest form of dick measuring, which is my high school used to fuck over your high school.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Which is something that we do in Louisiana all the time. Oh, shit. You went to Capitol to tell y'all motherfucking asses up. I'm 44. You know what I'm saying?

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

It was 1996, but it still happens.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you be able to recognize people from a high school you played?

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely, yes.

[Bill Simmons]

22 years later. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

I want to make sure I still know their names.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so after watching this movie a bunch of times and we did It. The first time we did the pod, the movie had been out probably like a year and a half, I think. So I've seen it at least 10 times since. This movie checks a lot of boxes for the kind of thing we love, including when people say things like, what happened back there? We're cop killers now. The flashback of the paroled prisoner leaving.

[Chris Ryan]

So much cooler than that.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just ripping through it. You do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Do your version for a second.

[Bill Simmons]

Do your version.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, we're cop killers now. Like, he says, he's got swag.

[Bill Simmons]

Dan, you want to go?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, sure. We're cop killers now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was nice. All right, Van wins. We're cop killers now.

[Chris Ryan]

That's good.

[Van Lathan]

That's good.

[Chris Ryan]

You just needed more than one take, you know? That's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

That's two takes. We have one of my favorites, when a paroled prisoner leaves and the prison guard has to give the. See you soon, Ray. Such a dick move. The guy's running out of jail.

[Van Lathan]

See, this is my problem with the prison system. Why are you talking to him like. Like that?

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, He.

[Bill Simmons]

He's getting out. It's the happiest day of his life. Yeah, like you give him.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, like, can't wait till you get back. Let him go. The girl's there.

[Bill Simmons]

We have a cop saying, yeah, I guess I'm getting divorced.

[Van Lathan]

Join the club.

[Bill Simmons]

We have. We have the. The bank that's never been robbed.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, my God. That's why we're gonna rob a fucking staple.

[Van Lathan]

But one of my favorite things about a heist movie is talking about just how impregnable a place is that's about.

[Bill Simmons]

To get rid of, and yet somehow there's a ton of information about the place and ventilation. But the guy on the phone talking to the cops, you just killed a hostage. Boom. Love that. And then I like when there's like, intricate detail about shooting where, like in this one, he's like suspects wearing body armor, limb and headshots only. Yeah, it's like. That's some deep dive. Limb and head shots only.

[Van Lathan]

That means shoot them either in the head or in the arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the Alameda corridor, man. You just got to come. Come ready to rock.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie's playing it all. So Gerard Butler, who I knew from 300, I knew from Law Abiding Citizen, I knew from a movie my family loves called Chasing Mavericks. You guys know that was a big movie in the Simmons house.

[Van Lathan]

And Olympus's Fallen Guy, well, he did.

[Bill Simmons]

The two fallen Movies.

[Chris Ryan]

He's also really good in rock and roll, I think, is that he's.

[Bill Simmons]

But here there was like some rom com stuff with him and he was. It was like, is he going to be Nick Cage? Is he. Is he going the Ryan Reynolds path? What is this? And then he finds himself in Big Neck. Chris.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Sometimes you got to age into the. The roles that you want. I think this is a case where it's like he was a beefcake. He was a rom com star. He did some like, crime movies or whatever. But Big Nick and all the movies around this time seems to be. This is where he was always headed. And this look, being able to wear that weight, wear that age, the bags under his eyes, I don't think he could have done that 10 years prior.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I mean, those guys, a lot of times you come out and they fiddle around with it. Even Matthew McConaughey had like an awkward period where he was trying to figure out who he was in Hollywood. But when Gerard figured it out, who is he? Who is Matthew?

[Bill Simmons]

Did he figure it out? Yeah. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

All right, all right, all right. He's the cool guy from Texas.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Butler gained 25 pounds for this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And you know, sometimes you hear with method actors, maybe off the screen, they're trying to capture what's in there with the character. You just get the feeling Butler might have been getting after it a tiny bit. Well, I'm the set.

[Chris Ryan]

It's perfect for Big Nick, though. Big Nick doesn't sleep.

[Bill Simmons]

No comment, fan.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, he's leathery, he's grizzled, like he's sweaty. Yeah. He looks like a guy that, you know, if you're in a situation with him, you think twice about it before you fuck with him. And that's the kind of thing that you have to give off to make this role really work.

[Chris Ryan]

He looks like a guy from the 1970s. Like, they stopped making dudes looking like that.

[Bill Simmons]

He.

[Chris Ryan]

In 1986.

[Bill Simmons]

He looks like a guy who got home at 6 in the morning, accidentally texted his wife instead of a stripper, and then drank from milk in the fridge. Boy, I tell you what, without putting in a glass.

[Van Lathan]

Just so, like in one scene, one thing that is decidedly white, and then another thing that is decidedly black.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, this is a good rewatchables category.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Right. Careful. But only. But like, every time I see. Make sure they only have white characters. Do this in movies. Every time I see somebody go to a refrigerator and drink whole milk out of the gallon early in the morning, I'm like, God damn, that's Caucasian. But see the other part of it where you text your girl, but you really meant to text the stripper. My homie's been through that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm sitting there like, dude, what should I say?

[Bill Simmons]

What you mean?

[Chris Ryan]

We need to find the guy who's done both and make him president.

[Bill Simmons]

You know? Exactly. So. So when we did this in 2019, we talked about how this would have been the perfect Nick Cage role in, like, the mid late 2000s. And then Nick Cage aged out of it, and now it's six years. Like, who is the actor now? That would be the big Nick O'Brien.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that, like, Pedro Pascal, maybe Wagner Mora, maybe. You're looking at me like. Because you're just like, there's only one.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you didn't. I don't know if we hit it. I really think it's a hard. You have to have some experience with the actor. They have to look a little physically different. They have to look like this might be happening to them as they're filming the movie. It's a hard needle to thread. Like Affleck, I think could have done it in the mid 2000s, late 2000s.

[Van Lathan]

Affleck. Affleck. Boston. Boston, yeah. Could dream this part.

[Bill Simmons]

Who else?

[Van Lathan]

You know what? It's weird. There's a version of this in the Multiverse where Liev Schreiber plays Big Nick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Because he could play that.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of grown from the crowd.

[Van Lathan]

Well, think about how.

[Chris Ryan]

But it'd be brother versus brother, brother versus brother.

[Van Lathan]

One went to Long Beach Poly. One South Torrance.

[Bill Simmons]

Pablo Schreiber, half brother of the six foot five.

[Chris Ryan]

God damn it.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say he's about as tall as you can get as an actor and be the lead in a movie when everyone else is so short. In Hollywood, you can't really go higher than six, five.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, he couldn't. He was six, seven.

[Chris Ryan]

He looks like he played for the Chargers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's huge. He looks like a tight end. We knew him as Sabaka on the Wire.

[Van Lathan]

Sabaca.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Way, way, way back. And he was so good in season two. And then, you know, just was in a bunch of good stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Orange is the New Black. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this is my favorite performance of his.

[Chris Ryan]

It's transformative. It's awesome. He's incredible in this.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Ray Merriman.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Just kind of has a lot of what you need for the role, like this intensity. But at the same time, you have to believe that there's Some sort of code. And it comes across really well when he's on screen that there are certain things that he doesn't want to and won't do.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Ray Merriman a fun hang? Probably not. It's like, come on over to the barbecue at Ray's house. It's like, not a lot of laughs at Ray's house. Ray is just people grimly eating.

[Chris Ryan]

Eating steak unadorned on a paper plate.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

By himself.

[Van Lathan]

See, I think, like, he's not gonna.

[Bill Simmons]

Have a lot of thoughts on the 12 team college playoffs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's like, you guys, I don't know. How does Boise State get it by?

[Van Lathan]

So I think that he's probably. This is the thing about this little group. I think that they're probably fun within themselves, but not fun for anybody else. Yeah, they probably have a lot of fun talking about getting to the Xfield in Baghdad circa 2006. But that's not some shit I want.

[Bill Simmons]

To hear about, right? Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Honestly, man, I rarely do this with you, but disagree. All scenes that we see with these guys, they're like, do you want to lift? Like, let's. Yeah, but look, that's all they do.

[Van Lathan]

They don't.

[Chris Ryan]

Like.

[Van Lathan]

They're not okay. But there's one. I get it. There's one scene that makes me feel different when they're intimidating the prom date. The. The prom date. And then after they intimidate the prom date, they go back in here and I'm like, yo, these guys not about to have a laugh about this. They were serious. But then they all break down.

[Chris Ryan]

But the one time that these guys crack up is when they're threatening to put a teenager in a wheelchair.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

All other times, including at Beni Hana, before Nick gets there, they're just like, yeah, they are hard as nails. Like, they don't. Like. Like, there's no laughter. There's only robbery and football.

[Bill Simmons]

I got family here, bro.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't appreciate you popping off like this, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

$30 million budget made $85 million. And the key to this movie was it did well. And then it hit this whole cable world, really, in the last kind of vestiges of when that would happen. Because now it's just like, it's all streamers. You're deciding, what do I want to watch. Oh, I'll go to Netflix. Oh, I like that thumbnail. I'll click on that. This was still the era of. You just went to a cable guide and looked around and saw it was on. And Den of Thieves was on. I would say, for Nine months straight on Showtime. There's like three Showtime channels. It was just on one of the three constantly. And that was where I think the secret sauce came in with the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, I think that. How many films do we could you name in, like, the last three years that did something like this? You know what I mean? Like, since COVID I think it's been like a real drought where we're not really seeing films that are getting like a second life, a second legs. And people have talked about this where it's like the home DVD market, everything about it has kind of killed the idea of films having a second life. But this film did well in the box office, and then I think it just became huge.

[Van Lathan]

Another thing is there's just so many movies, like, you're going through your prime video or whatever, and you see a movie and it's like, oh, my God, most deaf. John Lithgow, Anthony Hopkins. And are you like, should I watch this? And then. Yeah, you know what I mean? But this one, you literally got a vote of confidence from. From so many different people. Like, my cousin hit me up. And I know that he's excited about a movie. Wherever he puts that in front of the name of the movie. So he'll be like, oh, Van, did you see that Den of Thieves?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but the.

[Van Lathan]

That lets me know. Yeah, he fucking loved that shit.

[Chris Ryan]

Van, did you see that Conclave?

[Van Lathan]

Did you say, did you see that, bro? You see that alone? And so you see that brutalist. That's how he is. And so I watch it. I'm like, yeah, man, I seen that. Then the thieves that did a. Thieves crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

No Roger Ebert for this. Every Rewatchables episode, we read a Roger Ebert review, but he was long gone because he died in 2014. But I did ask chat GBT Roger Ebert. Oh, my God. Had to find out and said he thought that chatgpt thought he would like it. Den of Thieves has been praised for its gritty action, intense heist sequences. Some critics find it derivative of earlier crime films like Heat. Again, they can all fuck themselves.

[Chris Ryan]

Did Roger Ebert write that? No, ChatGpt Roger Ebert wrote this.

[Bill Simmons]

Based on this, Ebert might have given it two and a half to three stars, acknowledging its entertainment value while pointing out its lack of originality or depth. ChatGPT, settle down. Yeah, I think he would have gone three stars. And I think you would have liked the action stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think, yeah, he probably would have brought up other high stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he also would have seen that there was, like, it harkened back to like French Connection. It harkens back to, yeah, classic cop movies from the.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the kind of movie that should be made every three, four years.

[Van Lathan]

And I also think he would have enjoyed the fact that even though the movie is familiar in ways, it doesn't play it safe as far as its story. Yeah, it goes for some new things that maybe some of those other movies did story wise.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to by Nosferatu, a gothic tale of obsession from director Robert Eggers. Starring Lily Rose Depp, Bill Skarsgard, Nicholas Hoult, Aaron Taylor Johnson, Emma Corrin and Willem Dafoe. Nosferatu for your consideration in all categories including best picture, critics are calling it the best horror movie of the year. My daughter's boyfriend saw it twice at the theater. And now Nosferatu is Oscar shortlisted and a four time Critics Choice Awards nominee. Succumb to the Darkness. Learn more at Focus Features Guilds2024.com Nosferatu.

[Van Lathan]

What'S the best time of day to get a deal?

[Bill Simmons]

All day with Jack in the box's all day. Big deal meal. You get to choose from four entrees.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the supreme croissant and five tasty.

[Bill Simmons]

Sides plus a drink starting at $5. So hurry in or take your time. You've got all day at Jack.

[Chris Ryan]

Every bite's a big deal.

[Bill Simmons]

Most rewatchable scene. First one donut store robbery.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

So we get Eerie la. Which la? I don't, I don't know if other cities operate in the same way, but there's this whole other world of LA at night, middle of the night, two, three in the morning where you just kind of don't know what the fuck's going on. And a bunch of different parts. Right. And it's just like empty highways. It's always so weird not to see cars. And there's just a couple stores open all over the place and you just.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I make a suggestion?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You have a very popular genre of social media video called your walk and talks. When are we?

[Van Lathan]

3Am I want to see 3am 3am Donut.

[Bill Simmons]

Donut run.

[Chris Ryan]

Bill walking down Wilshire.

[Van Lathan]

Oh no, no, no, no, no. Not Wilshire. Fuck Wilshire. Gardena, Southgate, Hawthorne. I want to see you out there with the people doing the walk and talk.

[Bill Simmons]

But you see a movie like this that gives you the card of there's a bank robber every 48 minutes. And then the next scene, it's the middle of the night with an empty, long four lane street and there's a donut shop. And you're like, this isn't gonna go well for the donuts.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's like, is that Bill Simmons walking by the donut shop talking about the King?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's talking about Drake May. So we get the classic. The guy who's reaching for the coffee, who they have to shoot.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

We're out of time. We gotta engage. They know exactly how long.

[Van Lathan]

We're out of fucking time. We gotta engage. Contact Bright Range 100 suppressive.

[Bill Simmons]

Who, which guy would you be in the crew van? I mean, would you be the guy monitoring when the. Like we have 90 seconds, 60 seconds. Would you be the lead guy?

[Van Lathan]

Now that's the best job.

[Bill Simmons]

Backup guy.

[Van Lathan]

Right. The guy in the chair is the best job. But I'm probably Bosco, you know, I probably messed the whole thing up.

[Bill Simmons]

He was reaching for the coffee, he.

[Van Lathan]

Was reaching for pop, pop, pop. That's probably me. We don't know what we could do with this Lathan guy. Maybe we have to kill him, but that's probably me. But I will say something about that scene is whenever a movie opens with a heist, you're always trying to figure out what that robbery means, like what it actually says about the movie and about the crew and about their ethos. And of all the heists that you've seen to open something, this one says the most about the crew itself to me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, because they end up that they've had military training.

[Van Lathan]

They've had military training. Contact left. Contact right. You have all of that stuff. Two, they rob. They basically steal the truck and not the contents of the truck. So you know there's something more to it. And then three, the sentence we're cop killers now tells you that there's something more to them. So you probably learned the most about this group because of that and that.

[Chris Ryan]

This was like a level up for them.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Nice little swerve though. Cause we don't know what's in the truck. He opens the door. I mean we know after we watch.

[Chris Ryan]

Hint that this is gonna be a very twisty movie. He's looking in the truck like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's interesting because there's shades of the opening in Heat, but it's also later parts of different heist movies too. It's tapping into a bunch. So next one, Big Nick shows up at the crime scene and Gerard Butler's just like, guys, in case you were wondering, I'm going for it, I'm going for it. For the first minute you see me is there is There a half a box of donuts on the floor with, like, splattered blood on the box. I'll have one. I'm hungry. Looks great.

[Chris Ryan]

Is there an FBI agent I can call? Lob and Bob.

[Bill Simmons]

They give him the, hey, rough night? He's like, yes, next subject. And you just know he hasn't slept. There's no way he has been asleep that night. He eats the donut fan, by the.

[Van Lathan]

Way, as far as. Because, you know, there's always like a grizzle cop, rock bottom thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's either a cop takes out, you know, a cup, a mug, pour some whiskey and then some Pepto Bismol and you think, damn, that motherfucker nasty. Right? There's. But as far as rock bottom cop stuff goes, eating a donut from a crime scene after someone has said that one doesn't have any blood on it broke new ground. And you are a nasty. You need. God.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Your. Your defense is, well, the box was closed. That's it? That's your only defense?

[Van Lathan]

The dude says. He's like, we got donuts down there. He's like, here's a couple of them down there with no blood on them. It's just. That was when I like, oh, yeah, Big Nick got some problems.

[Bill Simmons]

I also love when, you know, when these guys come in and they instantly know everything that can happen where he's saying, like, well, they knew the route. There's no getaway bird support. And he's just like, spelling it out. It's like this guy has slept probably one hour in the last three days and has just ate a donut off the floor. But somehow he's just reaching left and right.

[Chris Ryan]

In game parlays, you're just like cavs at home.

[Van Lathan]

But to be honest with you, the script is answering questions. Because if you're from la, when you see that first scene, you're thinking, where is the helicopter? Like, why is there no chopper in the air? There should have been a chopper in the air. And they answer it right away.

[Bill Simmons]

Then he gives us the. We're dealing with a different animal, boys. Yeah, I guess we are. I wrote down Hungover Nick goes right from a donut to a cigarette while making fun of a cop in a suit for being a vegan. Just elite stuff. Yeah, it's great. It's some of Butler's finest work. All right, next scene. Donnie tells the story of how he met Merriman and the crew. Really fun driving scene. Good flashback stuff. One of the things I like about this movie is you always know where you are in the movie. Even if we're going backwards, you always have a sense of what's happening. So then they have the Merriman setting up the bank of banks versus Big Nick breaking down Merriman's crew, where they do a little back and back and forth.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I think works really well. And Merriman somehow has an incredible amount of information about the bank of banks.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, we find out why later.

[Van Lathan]

Later on we know.

[Bill Simmons]

How does he know there were 53 attempts?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that might be on Wikipedia. I have no idea. But like, I mean, is that on Wikipedia? I think Donnie has. Donnie is actually the fount of information. Like, he's the one who's like, here are all the bar napkins. Here's all the information.

[Bill Simmons]

Bankrobberyreference.com bank robbery, Reddit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

53, whatever. But we. Then we find out Laveau and Merriman played football at Long beach poly. There's $30 million. Do you buy this thing that there's $30 million that could just disappear because they have to shred it so nobody's looking for it. I bought it personally.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I bought it too. There's always something like that in every movie. Like we're going to steal plates to make more money. Yeah. These plates are the only four plates in the whole world and we only ones that can get them. I just go, okay, cool.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I will say this. It's an incredibly high degree of difficulty. Like, these guys are so heavy hitters. Like, they could just straight up rob a bank. You know, like, they're like, we need to rob this specific cash before shredder.

[Van Lathan]

Well, then they can, I guess, spend it for the rest of their lives. And it's untraceable. Yeah, I guess it's worth it, but I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he has. They're stealing what's his face's bonds and selling it back to him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What was that guy's name? Van Zant.

[Chris Ryan]

Van Zandt.

[Van Lathan]

Van Zandt, Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Fast Five had. They're breaking into the bank in Brazil, man, that nobody's ever broken into.

[Van Lathan]

The fast.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a secret heist movie.

[Van Lathan]

The fast people doing too much. They breaking into all different types of. They breaking into igloos, going to outer space. It says, like, whatever is the hardest to do. They trying to do it. I'm. I'm over it. I want them to do some regular. I want on the rap, a 711 in the next fast movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Some regulation going Back. Back to the basics.

[Van Lathan]

Go back to basics.

[Bill Simmons]

Fast 11. Back to the basics.

[Van Lathan]

Fast 11. Back to basics. Take it down to Donut John Toretto on a Schwinn.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Robbing a regular 711 because it's going too far.

[Bill Simmons]

Now it's a private school charity banquet. He's just taking it down. Next scene, 50 cents. Pep talk for his daughter's prom date.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the best scenes, which they let 50 Cent.

[Bill Simmons]

Finally, they put a chef's outfit on him, let him cook for three, four minutes.

[Van Lathan]

So here's what's up. For the past 16 years, my daughter's safety and protection has been my responsibility. And my responsibility on me now for the first time in her life. I see I gotta hand you that responsibility. Don't fuck up or your mama will weep if she has to wheel your ass around every day the rest of your life. Now, I worked on this. Cause I wanna say this to you.

[Bill Simmons]

As nice as you. Understand?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, sir. It's all right. That's all right. Listen, listen. All he's trying to say is it's wonderful to meet you and he wants you to have a beautiful evening.

[Van Lathan]

I'll see you at 11:30. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Well, 11:30.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, 11:30. Good choice. I did the same thing to my daughter on his prom date. I had all the guys from the Ringer in the garage just trying to Sean. Fantasy, trying to intimidate him.

[Van Lathan]

I thought you had really did that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It would just be funny, the phone call that he would make to his boys. Like, this dude act like he was about to push up on me.

[Chris Ryan]

He had a bunch of nerds talking about their letterboxd.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if you know me.

[Chris Ryan]

I got a lot of followers on letterboxd. I saw the Brutalist.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll go on Blue sky and I'll ruin you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Next scene. My favorite scene in the movie, the Benihana scene. So what you doing here, huh?

[Van Lathan]

Work around here. Enjoying my dinner, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Food here sucks. Yeah, we come here for the ass. How many times have you watched this, Sierra? Do you go on YouTube and just watch. Just type in Den of Thieves. Benihana, like last a month.

[Chris Ryan]

Last night, my wife and I were chatting about where we could get like a last dinner before she takes off for the holidays. And I did Google directions for Benihana in Torrance. It was not a convenient drive. But I think about this a lot. And I don't know why we haven't done a group dinner at Benihana yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe we should Maybe we should.

[Van Lathan]

But we need to do it when there's somebody there we can, like, intimidate.

[Chris Ryan]

Is this officially Benihana? Did they.

[Van Lathan]

Did they ever save Benihana in there, though?

[Chris Ryan]

And are there Benihana ripoff restaurants or is it like.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, like other type of hibachi joints and stuff like that? For sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The food hair sucks. We come here for the ass. He starts talking like, what the. The.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, some guy over there.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm making an onion volcano. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The staff's like, we're right here, guys. Starts talking all kinds of high school football.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Number 55, right. That's how I remember. You wore the same number. 55. Right. I went to South Torrance. Yeah, we played you guys a couple of times. You and all those fat ass Samoans. Yeah, they were big, but mad lazy motherfuckers. Yeah, probably all that Spam. Yeah, we fucking crushed you guys. Crushed you guys when I was there. Crushed you guys when you were there. Still crushing. You guys got family here, bro. Don't really appreciate you popping off.

[Van Lathan]

All right. All right, man.

[Bill Simmons]

You got all agro. Was I being rude? Hey, was that being rude, huh? What is that an immediate fight fan.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, yeah, our rivals were capital. And you don't just bring up different shit that happened. But what I want to know is what position these guys played. I want to know if they was on the field together. Cause they taking this shit real seriously. They see the dude and the dude is the sheriff, and he goes, yeah, he played for South Torrance. It's like, you write this like, fuck him. I'm like, God damn. Y'all taking it that fucking serious after years and years and years and years.

[Bill Simmons]

So what do you think? I was going to do this later, but what were the. What do you think? Ray Merriman's with middle linebacker, Tight end?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Free safety, linebacker, Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he was. Definitely. He's too tall, too. Had to be defensive end, middle linebacker.

[Van Lathan]

You don't think he had any possibility that he was the quarterback?

[Chris Ryan]

I. I gotta say, like.

[Bill Simmons]

So 65 quarterback.

[Van Lathan]

65 quarterback. He's calling the shots.

[Chris Ryan]

Nobody's following Ray in a huddle. He's just like, just do what I tell you to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Head caves and limbs, you know, like, that's not inspiring.

[Van Lathan]

What about Big Nick? What position did Big Nick play?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, he was linebacker, wasn't he?

[Van Lathan]

They say linebacker.

[Bill Simmons]

He was linebacker. And probably third down, running back.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Can I just say, I did more research on Long Beach Poly vs South Torrance than Any other thing I've ever podcasted about.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it rivals. Only trying to figure out what Lakers game they're talking about in Die Hard when Theo comes into the lobby of the Nakatomi Plaza. But it's really weird that Nick is popping so much shit about South Torrance. And Long Beach Poly, I think definitively has a better program.

[Van Lathan]

Dominant.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And desean Jackson was dominant. And Nixon's like, we whipped your ass. I'm like, when did that happen?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they had. Since we did the first pod. Antonio Pierce became the Raiders coach. He was the head coach for Long Beach Polyway for like three, four years. So, yeah, it was a big ass program. Crushed you guys when I was there. Crushed you guys when you were there. Just like, just bizarre. Anyway, it's like, hey, bro, we're at a Benihana.

[Chris Ryan]

Relax.

[Bill Simmons]

That leads to Ray Merriman standing up. I got family here, bro. Don't appreciate you popping off. It feels like we're gonna have a Benihana fight right there.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Butler's partner comes in. Have a good night, everybody. It's an unbelievable scene, but it leads to. Because I think this is part of the same scene. Them getting mad at Donnie and taking him to the murder tent.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that what we call it? The murder. It's like the blue tent in football, but it's the murder tent.

[Chris Ryan]

The body disposal area. Yeah. They've got the, the, the. The Samoan dude with the big bucket ready to go. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the. Oh, like if you're walking into a room like that, like Joe Pesci's just getting whacked in Good Fellows because he's.

[Van Lathan]

He didn't know one second where he knows.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. There's the South African dudes in Lethal Weapon too. Have the plastic on the floor.

[Bill Simmons]

Plastic on the floor is bad. When you see the giant garbage can and the guy wearing equipment because he's pouring acid in.

[Van Lathan]

And then the.

[Bill Simmons]

That's rough.

[Van Lathan]

My favorite oh, shit moment, and it kills me every time is speed. Jeff Daniels. Oh, when he walks in the house, he's about to get blown the Fuck up.

[Bill Simmons]

Murder. 10th's great. The shooting range, gun range, whatever we want to call it. Nice little battle. And then. And Big Dick's a little impressed by the shooting.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. He's cycling that weapon. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's kind of like likes it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's an admiration.

[Chris Ryan]

There's like a feeling that these guys are going to get in a shootout like from the second they even acknowledge One another.

[Van Lathan]

They check each other like four or five times. It's like he looks, he shakes his head. He looks, he shakes his head. And then Merriman just starts going crazy. And Big Nick has a love. And he also realizes at that point how dangerous his adversary is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We had the fake robbery scene which is a nice little swerve. The more you see this movie, the more you know where it's going. But that does have though we're here for the bank's money, not yours or whatever. Which is a staple of every high school.

[Chris Ryan]

Pico Savings and Loan. My favorite savings alone on Pico is.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. Oh, yeah. Leading to Donnie going in and having to steal the money. Which is one of the most tense scenes when he's trapped in the little cash thing, whatever it's called. Gets out. They shut the cameras off. It's like this whole five minutes. The guys have to sit there and pretend they're just waiting for the stuff to come on. Really, really good. Tense scene.

[Van Lathan]

He delivers at least three or four day old Chinese food.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And one lady is it up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And getting. Getting in the other lady's face. Like YouTube finish. I'm like, yo, man, that beef and broccoli been up there since.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Beef and broccoli can smell pretty off. Like in two hours in the fridge. Three days in an air duct. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we have the shootout. And the ending is the last two rewatchable scenes. I mean the last 25 minutes of this movie is probably go you a.

[Chris Ryan]

Step further from the second that Big Nick leaves the playground crying.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And everybody starts putting vests on. Is from out. It's an hour and six minutes of perfect cinema.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

Because it's just. Because it's like. It's basically it's the Savings and Loan robbery, the actual heist of the Fed and the shootout in the corridor. And it takes a very long time and it is incredible. And then it's the coda.

[Van Lathan]

Action. Reveal. Action.

[Chris Ryan]

Reveal.

[Bill Simmons]

Action.

[Van Lathan]

Reveal.

[Bill Simmons]

So where do you go for most rewatchable? Benihana.

[Chris Ryan]

Benihana is my heart. My head says the final shootout on the corridor. It's just.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Van Lathan]

I got a scene that you didn't mention. The scene where he finally signs the divorce papers and he crashes their like.

[Bill Simmons]

Little date with his wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Really important. I had this. In what stage? The best, though.

[Bill Simmons]

I had it with age. The best.

[Van Lathan]

Any scene where you separate the sharks from the guppies. If you. If you. If you. Her new date. You gotta go home, turn on the Water. Get in the shower and just cry that you didn't been bitched out like that. Like, he, like, he walks in, he eating off the man.

[Chris Ryan]

He's eating lamb chops.

[Van Lathan]

He drinking his drinks. He's talking like that.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also perfect because both those guys are wearing like, I golfed earlier.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The one dude is just like, ah, Nick, I was gonna call you. I was gonna see if you wanted to get dinner. And it's like.

[Van Lathan]

And Nick just sits down in there. I own this. I own everything. And I'm like, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He says, call the fucking cops.

[Van Lathan]

Call the cops. I am the cops.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

This is helpless. I felt so bad for the dude. At the same time, I was like, fuck him.

[Bill Simmons]

I think if he wants to pursue a relationship with the lady, at some point he's got to like, stand up and make it seem like she's on hinge.

[Van Lathan]

It's over.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like there's no way you can recover.

[Van Lathan]

She was talking to her girls. Look, I thought he was so great. He had all of his stuff together.

[Bill Simmons]

He didn't even stand up.

[Van Lathan]

And then fucking Nick walked in and just made him look like a God damn gimp.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's done. What's the most 2018 thing about this movie? I would say. I would say they're the smoking in the bars in L. A, which I think now they would just come in and taser you.

[Chris Ryan]

I think in 20, I assure you, in 2018 they were not.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I was the last vestige of it, but to me, it really is like the Showtime bump that this, like when it goes on.

[Chris Ryan]

The cable secondary life thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the secondary life where if this had just been like, carry on on Netflix, it just comes on. I don't know if it hits the same way. I think just the fact that you could jump into the different parts of it, I thought really helped it grow.

[Van Lathan]

I thought the most 2018 thing was that they were strippers. But no bbls. If you go into that strip club now, it's gonna be some jiggle in that bitch.

[Chris Ryan]

That's probably right.

[Bill Simmons]

Did he steal yours? C.R.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't have to come up with another one. We'll just keep going. What stage is the best? So the Donnie Twist, Once you've seen this movie a couple times, knowing what he's up to the whole time makes this a really fun.

[Chris Ryan]

The crucial part is there's. Whenever it happens, like midway through the movie when Merriman knows, after Benihana, and they're like, okay, Donnie's compromised Part of you is the first time through. Like, okay, you guys are the hitters. Cut him loose. Like, what do you need the driver for? You can get another driver. But when you go back knowing the entire plan was Donnie's, that's why Merriman was compromising and being like, all right, I guess I'm gonna keep this guy around. Cause he's the key to the castle.

[Van Lathan]

If you first watch the movie, you think he's like, that's a real. You think he's dead, right? Because why would they fuck around like that? But then you get to the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, tied into that, the art of bartending has aged the best. I love this quote. Lots of reps. I'm in complete control of my environment. People don't even know. So he says that and it's a good foreshadowing for what he's up to. But also, like, shout out to the bartenders, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Always, never miss a trick. Always know what's going on in the bar and the people around. You're always listening to conversations.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you gossip as a bartender?

[Bill Simmons]

I heard everything.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I heard everything.

[Chris Ryan]

Filed it all away. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age? The best suit stores. Guys hanging out in suit stores. Wanna do that on Saturday. Cigar?

[Chris Ryan]

I just want to get myself a big duster.

[Bill Simmons]

Want to go try some leather jackets?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Wanna come? You're invited. All right. Unspoken stares.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Yeah. Testosterone, staring.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of test.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, maybe that's the most 2018 thing. Because in 24, they would probably be looking at their phones, but here they're.

[Bill Simmons]

Just still looking at each other. I like that. There's some good quotes like, come on, give me a hug. We'll save a fortune in therapy. There's like some good one liners in here. All the UFC fighters, which now that I know UFC a lot more than I did in 2018, like, there's some real dudes in this.

[Van Lathan]

Max Holloway.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Max Holloway. You want to talk about Butler's leather jackets, Chris?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, they're just a perfect accoutrement for this character. They're leathery the way the character is leathery. You know, would you.

[Bill Simmons]

If there was the set of them, the game, the movie worn den of thieves, one leather jacket.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't get ahead of yourself. Memorabilia.

[Bill Simmons]

But yeah, then I love the. Any movie where there's a big board with photos of crew with titles under Boss Boss.

[Van Lathan]

Boom, boom. And you think. And then. Because it all comes back to it at the end, the fact that he had it wrong the whole way and Then he looks. I got to say something else, man. We real progressive on this. I just gotta take it here. Brothers is masterminds, man. Shout out, brothers. Yeah, give it up. Y'all know the rest of y'all ain't clapping. Okay, brothers, that's mastermind. That's how they. That's how they with you. You know? You know what I mean? That's how they with you. Because at the end you thinking, oh, is it Ice Cube, son and brothers as masterminds. That really meant something to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Shooting range showdowns.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just like them. It's a great place for a thing because you don't know if they're just going to start shooting each other.

[Chris Ryan]

Should be your final job interview to get hired at the ringer is you got to go shoot with.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's go shoot together. The big board with photos of the crew. Remember, Sopranos had a whole. Yeah, that was two episode arc where they. They like ended in a really big episode.

[Van Lathan]

I never forget that scene because the instrumental was paparazzi by exhibit.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And they going through and they moving stuff around. And it's like when they look at.

[Bill Simmons]

Uncle Junior's down and it's like, move Junior down.

[Van Lathan]

They put Tony up.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other would say it's the best here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I have when cops print out a bunch of shit that they could easily just look at on a computer screen, just to be able to hold it up and say, what happened to you. I also really love opening your movie with a huge crime that you have to top. He does this Dark Knight does this Sicario and Drive and the Matrix. When you have like a set piece at the beginning and you're like, the bar is already up here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then you top it. It's incredible.

[Van Lathan]

The FBI slander is golden. It's like this movie takes it to the next level.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And Die Hard is like, oh, my God, the feds. We're cooler than them. This guy is a vegan FBI cook.

[Chris Ryan]

Who plays badminton or tennis. Why is he.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, you know what I mean? So, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, tennis took some shots in this movie.

[Van Lathan]

Took some real shots.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank God. Thank God Pickleball wasn't around at this point. This would have been really bad.

[Van Lathan]

Play football. FBI vegan cucks play tennis.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Any other would say is the best.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I think that the opening text is so needlessly hard. It's so cool. It's up there with not to jump on Apex Mountain. It's the opening text about bank robberies versus the in Mexico sicario Means Hitman. Those are the two greatest title cards I've ever seen.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that one was really super fucking hard. Like the Sicario joint. I like that Star wars scroll though. Yeah, you like that?

[Chris Ryan]

Shit, dude, it's too long. It's too long. It's too much reading.

[Bill Simmons]

Too long. You're in the theater, you're like half the scrolls.

[Van Lathan]

Me, you're like shut the up.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what somebody who's got skills should do is redo the Star wars scroll, but with the text from Den of Thieves scrolling up across the galaxy is like the bank robbery capital. Every nine minutes somebody gets it.

[Bill Simmons]

Does seem like more movies should just do it. It always works. I'm always down for it. The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most gifable moment. Probably like literally any moment for Benihana I think can be cut into a 2 second. What would you have though?

[Chris Ryan]

I have Pablo getting up from his rice.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't appreciate you, papa.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't appreciate you popping off here, bro. We got family.

[Bill Simmons]

Great shot. Go Order award. Most cinematic shot. I like that. Final traffic shootout. Yeah, really cool.

[Chris Ryan]

The drone shot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that looks great. This is so much fun when we get to give out a category that's from the actual movie. The Den of Thieves. Benihana award for scene stealing location.

[Chris Ryan]

So is Benny Hanna.

[Bill Simmons]

It goes to Benny Hanna. No. So we cancel yourself.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, so I mean, obviously then.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, if Bill Russell had won the finals MVP after it was named after him. He gets the Bill Russell finals mvp. That's how it was.

[Van Lathan]

Well, that was really impressive.

[Bill Simmons]

That would have been Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, can I throw out some runners up for Dennis for Go for it. I would say Ziggy's Hofbrau. And the menswear store. And the donut shop.

[Van Lathan]

The donut shop is one too, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness. Aware. Best needle drop. Not a lot of music in this.

[Chris Ryan]

But the music is incredible. They're not a lot of stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but a lot a lot of like with lyrics. But what it's like by Everlast.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Nice little. Oh, bro, squeeze that one in there. Little late 90s, baby.

[Van Lathan]

They call her a killer. And they call her a sinner. Boy, he was dropping some knowledge, man.

[Bill Simmons]

The Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink. Unless you guys can top drinking milk right from the carton at six in the morning.

[Van Lathan]

The donut.

[Bill Simmons]

Bloody donut.

[Chris Ryan]

Bloody donuts.

[Van Lathan]

And.

[Chris Ryan]

And Deb's new New man's house dinner.

[Bill Simmons]

That's all eating the food.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. What's that?

[Bill Simmons]

The skirt steak. Oh, yeah, the skirt steak.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a lot, A lot of food. This is a very good food or drink movie. Okay. The Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film. I have a thought, but I don't know. You want me to go first?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

So there's 50 cars between the robbers trying to get away at the end and the cops. And I just, I'm not sure the cops would just decide to turn a traffic like standstill into an actual shootout.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I had this in nitpicks because.

[Bill Simmons]

I just imagined sitting in the car, you're halfway through, you're like, you're listening. Yeah, I'm listening to the Watch on.

[Chris Ryan]

The third segment about Oregon. Yeah, he's got some good point.

[Van Lathan]

At one point, they actually going down the the. And he said, get down, get down. Get behind the engine block. Y'all about to light the high, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You see what this guy got that gun? That's from Call of Duty. My engine block not gonna help me. Maybe wait to take him down.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a class action. So suit, like a week later, were you in the traffic shootout on.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

March 39th. What do you have for week L. Anything?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I don't have a weak link. I have, I have a Vincent Chase, which is often.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, what stage the worst? Smoking inside a bar. We mentioned Big Nick going to see his daughter at school. I don't know. Yeah, I, I, I, I might have just had him outside the fence crying. But I like the shock value of the ending as a wood stage the worst, because the second, third, fourth time you see it, it's not a shock anymore, so it's not the movie's fault. But it's the worst because, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

There'S my head called the Ray Merriman cut, where you just end it when he's like, when Rey and Lavo have.

[Bill Simmons]

Died, you know, like, oh, that's it.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's basically like this ends like Heat, basically where these guys have had this confrontation. And he, you know, he's like, I didn't bring my cuffs today. You know, it's like that there is a way to end it that way, but the Donnie stuff then unlocks everything that happens afterwards, you know, So I.

[Van Lathan]

Think the eating the donuts off the ground has aged the worst. Yeah, it's a health violation because, like, we got Olympic. We don't even want them donuts no more, Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, he's just taking a glue tide yeah, the biggest one for me. And this isn't the movie's fault because they had a certain budget, but they film a lot of it in Atlanta. And I think if they knew it was gonna be as big of a movie as it became. I just think we're getting more actual LA in this movie than Atlanta pretending to be la. Cause we notice. But the most. I would say almost everybody who sees this movie would not notice.

[Chris Ryan]

I was like, damn, la. And then like, there's one shot outside of Nick's girl. Ex wife's house or wife's house where, like, there. There's no foliage. And you're like, oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

No, it's funny.

[Chris Ryan]

It's fall.

[Van Lathan]

Is that. And CR can attest to this. I just realized it today. Yeah, like, I just realized it today.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a testament to it being cool.

[Van Lathan]

I actually just came in and said, yo, is this a more L A movie than he? Because it. It. They continuously drop different L A stuff all throughout part of the DNA of the movie. But, yeah, like, once it's pointed out.

[Bill Simmons]

You notice we have a category called the Mark Ruffalo Vincent, Hannah Saul Ruben, Linda Partridge overacting Award, which is. Doesn't even necessarily mean overacting. It's really. For somebody who's dialing it up. Gerard Butler not only wins this, it's one of the reasons the movie is as much fun as it is, because he's going for it the entire fucking time.

[Chris Ryan]

If you get to have a scene where you're wasted and a scene when you're brutally hungover, you're going to win.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a triple crown.

[Van Lathan]

And a scene where you cry after you. You got the whole gamut of emotions.

[Bill Simmons]

Was there a better title for this movie, Van?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think so either.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, no. Like, robbery capital of the world. It doesn't. I don't know. Den of Thieves is sick.

[Bill Simmons]

It's gonna be interesting, though, when it has sequels because eventually, like, Fast and Furious became Fast five, Fast six. And then we shorthand. I don't know if we're gonna be shorthanding den or thieves.

[Van Lathan]

Thieves 8.

[Bill Simmons]

Thieves 8. I think it's four thieves, right? Yeah. 3. The can you dig it? Award for most memorable quote. People that have things to hide never have much to say. Good high school yearbook quote.

[Chris Ryan]

I have the exchange where Ray's like, I ain't cuffing up. And Nick's like, that's okay. I didn't bring my cuffs anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, okay. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word. What do you got? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

If you know you're getting Den of Thieves 2. Do you keep Rey alive? Do you keep Rey alive? Like, is Merriman so cool in this movie and such a viable character. I know it ends the movie with such a profound, like, period at the end of the sentence, but Pablo is so good in this that would you be like, nick goes to get Rey out of jail to help him catch Donnie is the second part.

[Van Lathan]

So I maybe probably. Okay. But I do think that there's obviously some utility in killing him. Because I think the statement that the movie makes the movie. To me, the underlying theme of the movie is predator versus Prey.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

And the entire movie you think that he is a predator, but he's actually just prey. The two apex predators that were left at the end of the movie had different skill sets.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

One of them was a big, bruising, physical guy and the other one was your Lex Luthor.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

And so like that. And I don't know why you're giving away ideas, but that sequel that you had in mind actually would be dope. But him going out like actual prey actually works in the movie really well too.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think?

[Bill Simmons]

Ray's twin brother, Rick Merriman. Ray was qb. Rick was the receiver. Rick's leading a good, normal life. He lives in Austin. Never got into the family business.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I like that idea. Sean Merriman is his actual Sean Merriman. Sean, he played football.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know, he was playing for the Chargers at this point. They have their dad could be played. I don't know about Denzel. Bring it like, you know, they have brothers or something. Now we cook it.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. I have so this movie, the movie reviewers, when they were doing how it's like Heat, there's some stuff that's the same. Like they have. There's bank heist, over the top cop in a bad relationship. Two sides casing each other out. The bad guys knowing they're being followed by the good guys trying to get info on them. Big shootouts at the beginning and the end. Hero cop confronting his wife's new guy downtown la. The scene with the messed up hero cop trying to connect with the younger girl and then the black cop sidekick. So there's a lot of stuff in there. I'm fine with all of it. Guess what? We love Heat about as much as any. Why can't more movies emulate Heat?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, those things.

[Bill Simmons]

Why is this a bad thing?

[Chris Ryan]

Existent?

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, my God. He's emulating Michael Jordan.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, yeah, it happens. It happened in North Hollywood. The actual fucking thing happened. I mean, these are things that, you know, get reflected in movies because shootouts happen, things like that.

[Bill Simmons]

So casting what ifs? We couldn't find anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

Not really.

[Bill Simmons]

But the director is here. Where is he?

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe you could tell us later.

[Bill Simmons]

Was there. Was there a casting what if? Was there anybody that was supposed to be in this movie and it didn't happen? Where is he? Yeah, that's what the Internet. See, this movie has been out. What happens with the rewatchables is the movie's out 30 years, and then it's like every single reason Ryan Reynolds was going to do Den of Thieves and then he backed out. You just never know what's true or not true. So this movie hasn't been on long enough. Oh, this is good. We get to give out the Van Lathan award. Did this movie need more black people? Van.

[Van Lathan]

I have an idea. Could have been different. Den of thieves, race war.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you actually have this written down or is this. Yeah, all black cats.

[Van Lathan]

Den of thieves, race war. This is what we do.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, which is this, like the fourth one or the fifth one?

[Van Lathan]

You laugh about it, like. So for some reason, we got all black cops, all white heist people. Okay. They played high school football. The black guys used to fuck them up. They're mad. They start robbing banks.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And now we gotta get one more victory over them. So more black people, all black cast. But Den of thieves, race war.

[Chris Ryan]

It has.

[Van Lathan]

If.

[Chris Ryan]

If it happened, it would have to be written exactly like that and in that voice where, like, the white robbers would be like, I'm so mad. We used to get our asses whipped by those black guys in football.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's rob banks.

[Van Lathan]

We're getting. We're getting back at Dorsey. Y. We're getting back at Crenshaw. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're getting back at Fairfax. We are Notre Dame. We are Harvard Westlake.

[Bill Simmons]

So Hoosiers cross with Heat.

[Van Lathan]

Hoosiers cross with Heat.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, Race four. The fourth one. Yeah, perfect. That's that guy award. I mean, that guy from this movie in Shock Collar, who we know as Evan Jones. But I think Chris and I are one of the only two people that know.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

To me, he's got to win. But would you put. Is there anyone else in there?

[Chris Ryan]

Don Oliveri, because she was. And she's been on a bunch of.

[Bill Simmons]

That's Big Nick's wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Meadow Williams is Ray's girlfriend. But he didn't know her name.

[Van Lathan]

There's one guy, a Russian guy that plays one of the truck drivers, and I see him in stuff all the time. I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a good. That guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I've seen him in a bunch of different things.

[Bill Simmons]

So, Dion. Waiter's a word for best heat check in the movie. This is somebody that's in for a couple scenes, and then that's it. I had the two ladies ordering the Chinese food.

[Van Lathan]

You like that?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They're only in, like, two scenes. They're just bringing the heat. She's pissed off. She's like, go, stop that guy.

[Van Lathan]

I knew it was coming.

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Van Lathan]

No, I like them. I like them.

[Bill Simmons]

Who else would jab? Everyone else is in it too much.

[Van Lathan]

Everybody is. It's a small cast. It's not. Not a lot going on, like, so. No, I think. I mean, you could almost. The FBI guys really turn it on.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Tennis guy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch director. City cr. We're obsessed with Landman right now. What if we had Ali Larder's character from Landman as Big Vic's ex wife? Just go. Just going for it. Back to the crazy for crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

As gracefully as Deb did.

[Bill Simmons]

But, yeah, she probably would have stabbed him.

[Chris Ryan]

I was thinking, because we were talking earlier, we did a quick video where we were talking about what's next for Timothee Chalamet. And while I obviously approve of going forward with the Den of Thieves into the future, what if we did Young Nick? Oh, early days on the lapd. Going into lasd. Like, getting acquainted with the LA underworld.

[Bill Simmons]

A prequel.

[Van Lathan]

Playing football.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like it. I said initially I was trying to. When we did the first pod, I was talking about how we could have gotten, like, a funny character in this because it's been a pretty weighty movie, and I was talking about it.

[Chris Ryan]

I laugh a lot, though.

[Bill Simmons]

If Dave Chappelle was Butler's sidekick. Dave Chappelle. Chill. Hold on. Bear with me.

[Van Lathan]

Terrible what I did.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on. Hold on.

[Chris Ryan]

But with, like, a bunch of gun training and stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, that's the thing. He's. He. He's swimming against you. Don't. You didn't know he had it in him. But he's got, like, the three moments where he really makes fun of Big Nick. And it's funny, but I. I think I was wrong with that. I actually, like. I wouldn't change. I wouldn't change the cast. This is where I landed. But I was trying to think, how do we get a funny person in this, who is like the.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Bosco could have been funnier. Like, Bosco could have been like. That's like the flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers role. You know what I mean? Like there's.

[Bill Simmons]

Who would you put, Van? Like one person who's like three times just busted Nick's balls.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, so it's interesting, the Dave Chappelle thing, you know, Dave Chappelle is.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of swollen now we're back.

[Van Lathan]

I mean. No, he is kind of swollen.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll talk in 2018, Star is born. Dave Chappelle.

[Chris Ryan]

I like Shane Gillispie to play Murph, right? Like you want, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, just like three jokes.

[Van Lathan]

It would almost have to be one of the cops, though.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I'm saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Three jokes about Big Nick. I can't believe you ate that donut. That was disgusting.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Joke.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I get it, I get it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary. What do you have?

[Chris Ryan]

What if Doris Burke was calling the prom date Intervention? We see you, Mr. Laveau. For the past 16 years, you've been responsible for your daughter's safety. Now she's going out in the world prom night with a gang affiliated teenager named Ronaldo. A huge moment in any father's life. But you've got half a dozen South Pacific Islander linemen and a cop killer named Ray Merriman by your side. It's not prom. It's not a prom night we will soon forget.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, unfortunately now when I watch ESPN NBA, I just think of CR during Doors.

[Chris Ryan]

She also never speaks in that much of a monologue. It's just like. I don't know how it's gotten out of control like that.

[Bill Simmons]

That scene when Donnie's in the bank room and they shut the cameras off and it's super tense there. Tony Romo easily, I think could have, could have come. They turned the cameras off.

[Van Lathan]

Jim, he's only got three minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got to get to the bed. I was thinking about that yesterday as he was having an orgasm. About Josh Allen, half ass Internet research. So Christian, the directors that. That's here he started writing this movie in 2003. So this is a 15 year odyssey, inspiring story. Van, you've worked on some movie projects in your life. 15 years, decade and a half.

[Van Lathan]

It's a lot. Yeah, I mean, you gotta commit.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe in 2050 we'll make Den of Thieves, Race War, you never know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it could happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Keep plugging away.

[Van Lathan]

I'm ready.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie was released in some countries with the title Criminal Squad. Ziggy's bar is in Atlanta. It's called Johnny's Hideaway. Everyone.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Is Ziggy's Hofbrau based on Sam's Hofbrau here? Isn't that off Olympics somewhere?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

Is it. Did you ask where Sam's Hofbraul is?

[Chris Ryan]

It's off Olympic.

[Van Lathan]

I can show you.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. I've been to bars too, man. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Have you been to Sam's?

[Chris Ryan]

I've not been to Sam's.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You wanna go now?

[Van Lathan]

We can go.

[Chris Ryan]

We can go.

[Van Lathan]

Don't fall in love. It's going down in that.

[Bill Simmons]

So there's a military consultant who. Who did separate boot camps for both sides. I'm always to train them.

[Van Lathan]

I always wonder about this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Particularly Paul Maurice with the Taylor Sheridan stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You almost wonder if Taylor Sheridan was like, in the service, like how the vernacular. He was not how the vernacular comes out. But in this one, there's a lot of tactical stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

And I always wonder in the closing credits. The 100 bill has the serial number dot zero zero zero zero two zero one eight for Den of Thieves. Got to really catch that. Takes some times. All right. Apex Mountain. Gerard Butler.

[Chris Ryan]

I think you could make the argument that this is the second phase of his career.

[Bill Simmons]

The fallen movies.

[Chris Ryan]

But I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Or 300.

[Chris Ryan]

300 is the first peak.

[Bill Simmons]

Who said. Where do More conversations now? 300 or Den of Thieves?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, Den of Thieves in our bubble. Longer tail, I think den of thieves.

[Bill Simmons]

Now 300. Probably played more at sporting events.

[Van Lathan]

It's. Yeah, 300. It's probably. It's probably 300. But he's more this guy now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So it's an interesting one.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's become this Pablo Schreiber.

[Chris Ryan]

It's this or the Wire.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, this or the Wire.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's this. Suit stores.

[Van Lathan]

Suit stores.

[Chris Ryan]

In a movie, like in films or.

[Bill Simmons]

In general, all suit stores ever.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a very specific kind of suit store where you can get suit and a leather duster and cowboy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Three for three suit store.

[Chris Ryan]

For sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Three for three. Suits are great. The Federal Reserve bank in Los Angeles.

[Van Lathan]

Didn'T even know it was a thing. So. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Fed never, never been taken down.

[Chris Ryan]

Also, it could be Apex Mountain of things being described like Fort Knox, Long.

[Bill Simmons]

Beach Poly versus South Torrance. I'm going to say this was the apex.

[Chris Ryan]

It's certainly the apex for South Torrance because otherwise it's Chad Morton.

[Bill Simmons]

Shooting Rangers in a movie. I. I still got a Beverly Hills Cop, too.

[Van Lathan]

Beverly Hills Cop, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Really important. Bigger. Bigger. For the plot.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Benny Hana in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly. Benny Hana. Which is unclear.

[Bill Simmons]

Still Christian. Was it a Beni Hana? There you go. That counts. We're counting.

[Chris Ryan]

This is invaluable, by the way. We could have just been doing this for too long.

[Bill Simmons]

Accidental texts to a stripper that go to your wife in a movie.

[Van Lathan]

In a movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

In life. Night and clothes.

[Bill Simmons]

In life. That would be Tiger Woods.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the text? It's like, you're such a bad bitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he here? Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

Nah, the text was, nah, I can't fuck over him like that, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Heat homage. Second generation Heat movies. It's basically this first, the town versus Triple Frontier.

[Chris Ryan]

Triple Frontiers is a war movie, though, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, two Triple Frontiers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but it's still heist.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, it's a heist, but it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Got the same vibe.

[Van Lathan]

The. The town is much more on the nose as far as, like, that type of thing that you're talking about.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Oh, widows. That's a good one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's a really good one. Sexism stopped us from bringing it up.

[Bill Simmons]

Tacking up for a street gunfight after a heist.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. This is. This is about putting the armor scene, putting on bulletproof vests.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. O'Shea Jackson Jr.

[Van Lathan]

You got. So you got this. You got Straight out of Compton, Shout Out Compton. And you also have.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he's done it.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's. I think it's. I think it's actually going to be the sequel.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, the sequel is going to be good.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's going to be.

[Van Lathan]

I DM'd him and let him know we were doing this. It's like, yeah, man. Hell yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that how he sounded? He's a nice guy.

[Van Lathan]

He's a nice guy's a good guy.

[Chris Ryan]

We're like, hey, man, I got this script idea called Race War.

[Bill Simmons]

Think about it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's about these white football players.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad things happening at a donut store in a movie. I'm still going Boogie Nights.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Boogie Nights for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Even though that did lead to Buck being able to open his own stereo.

[Chris Ryan]

The question is, is it the same? I guess not, because that's in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Valley and this is drinking Milk right from the carton. Probably Anchorman.

[Van Lathan]

Anchorman is up there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It was a terrible choice.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Angel City Donuts.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I think this was Apex Mountain for wherever that was. All right, next category is Cruiser Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

I got Hanks as Big Dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Really make the case. Let's hear it.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like Hanks post Saving Private Ryan. Do it. I think he's got it. I think he. He spent some time with S. Moore. He's. He's got. He knows about late nights and coming out of. Coming out of Saving Private Ryan. We could have seen it. Are you trying to tell me Tom Cruz could have been anywhere in this.

[Van Lathan]

Film in a minute? I want everybody to close your eyes and think about Tom Hanks walking into that dinner and stealing the feet off.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Tom Hanks, Daniel.

[Van Lathan]

Us.

[Chris Ryan]

I. The food sucks. We come here for the ass. Like Tom Cruz saying it would be just as crazy. We come here for the ass.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually thought Cruz cuz it would have been the cruise that I like where he just tries to become this alternate crazy like Collateral. Yeah, Cruise as Big Nick Cruz. Just saying it. Well, he'd be Medium Nick. Okay. Yeah, I guess. Cruz. Maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you imagine Cruz?

[Bill Simmons]

It's a shorter movie with Cruz.

[Chris Ryan]

Pablo Shriver.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think we have to get rid of Pablo if Cruz is gonna.

[Van Lathan]

Look like a Make a Wish outing. Big Brothers of la. It's like. It would look nasty, bro.

[Bill Simmons]

I think if Cruz is in. Pablo is probably not in the movie. We're probably recasting.

[Chris Ryan]

We got to get a shorter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a shorter cast.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like more of like a slot receiver guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So you think Hanks after trying to be like America.

[Chris Ryan]

America's binary choice of cruiser. Hanks. Tell you it's Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

What do. You're the tiebreaker.

[Van Lathan]

So it would have to be Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

It would have to be Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you're right. I just wanted to see Cruz. Cruz trying to play big dick Cruz.

[Van Lathan]

Cruz has played more roles like this before.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he's like. He's. He's in collateral. Like he's done shit like this. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Racehorse. Rock band wrestler fantasy team name. I'll give you Angel City Donuts or Ziggy's Hofbrau.

[Chris Ryan]

I like. I like calling it Horse. Long Beach Poly.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, nice.

[Van Lathan]

Long Beach. Polly is good.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Pick a nuts. Scottish Gerard Butler as a South Torrance football star. Go, bro.

[Van Lathan]

You can't tell me he don't have that whole Bill Romanowski thing.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he does. It's just. He's Scottish. Yeah, but he. He hides it pretty well. But I just. I have the background of knowing so. Hawthorne to Wilmington. 14 mile ride. Just going to flag that. Just Having lived in LA for the last 22 years, like, 14 miles is a long way.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the collateral. The collateral rule of LA traffic.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's some. There's some maps up. There's more later. Should Donnie have immediately asked for an attorney when he woke up in a hotel room with pee all over himself? Well, I think, like, I would have.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you get the impression that he would be like, oh, did you. Representation.

[Van Lathan]

He literally tells him, I'm in the gang.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a cop.

[Bill Simmons]

He does that. Maybe I'd like to talk to an attorney, bro.

[Van Lathan]

I watch interrogation videos. They don't be asking for attorneys, man.

[Bill Simmons]

So fans got to explain this to the. To the audience.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

The interrogation. Do you guys know what interrogation videos are?

[Van Lathan]

Y'all watch the interrogation? Y'all watch the interrogation videos?

[Chris Ryan]

Where are you watching this?

[Van Lathan]

I'm watching them on YouTube.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Retreat, crimes. Explore with us all kinds of stuff. Cops sit down and they go, hey, listen, we know you're not a bad person. We know you killed your entire family. We just want to know why. And the entire time the person you're like, ask for the lawyer. Ask for the lawyer. Ask for the lawyer. Ask for the lawyer. Yeah, by the end of it, they eating popeyes and doing 150 years.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right. That's right. I would ask for an attorney if I was Donnie. We covered. Why does Merriman know this much about the bank of banks? I don't know how he gets that information in 2018. What do you have? I have some more.

[Chris Ryan]

It takes me, like, 10 minutes, and I have to, like, go outside and wait for UberEats to drop off my lunch at Spotify. But the Chinese food delivery guy can get inside of the Fed and, like, wander around the cafeteria with two bag.

[Bill Simmons]

With two bags.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It just seems like they could add a tighter Chinese food delivery protocol at the Fed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Maybe just drop it off at the front desk.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Just be like, hey, your food's here. You can come down and get it.

[Van Lathan]

So this is maybe the biggest nit I've ever picked in any movie ever. Okay. He's sitting there, and Big Nick looks at him. He looks at Donnie and he says, you got a small pecker for a black guy. And Donnie says nothing. Donnie doesn't say, you ain't seen it when? Cause I'm a grower. You can go ask these chicks from where I'm from, and they'll straight tell you that's bullshit. It's women in the room, it's other dudes in the room. And he just accepts that. No, I'm gonna tell. Nah, you don't even know what average is. That's not for real. You talking to somebody else? Obviously, I peed myself. So my was.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a side effect of being tased.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I was tased. I'm nervous. You can't make that by that. Now, let's talk about the heist. Now, before we talk about the heist, let's deal with this issue of you saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, good, good.

[Chris Ryan]

Nitpick, man. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So Donnie bags up all the $100 bills that are being shredded, and he's got, I don't know how many bags. Based on the weight of $100 bills, $1 million would weigh 22 pounds. Okay, so 30 million and $100 bills weighs 661.5 pounds. According to the Internet.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think he dumped 661 pounds, 0.5 pounds over that thing in two minutes?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, you'd probably be like, this is. This is for all the market, and.

[Bill Simmons]

Those bags were tiny. Yeah, it's a nitpick. I mean, I've seen this movie 17 times.

[Chris Ryan]

We should have brought £600 out here and seen.

[Bill Simmons]

I should have been a good. Yeah. Taster.

[Van Lathan]

Now, £600 of what? Oh, yeah. Bill could swing that.

[Bill Simmons]

So Donnie, because he has access to the people that go in and out of the bank, then he writes down the entire ventilation system on a bunch of napkins. I just want to talk it out.

[Van Lathan]

So. So this is what I'm. So every once in a while, and the movie, you have to suspend the movie doesn't work. Unless he's, like, a super genius. Right. So the movie that has.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think you're supposed to imagine that, like, the little bits you're seeing, multiply it by a thousand. He's been at the bar for however long, hearing these people come in, they leave their ID cards there. They're talking about the new woman at the cafeteria, whatever. And that he's been accumulating this knowledge over the course of this period.

[Van Lathan]

And then at some point, he had so much information, he goes, this could be actionable in some kind of way.

[Bill Simmons]

How many days was the Chinese food order up above the bathroom?

[Chris Ryan]

And there's probably an answer to that. I don't know. It's like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like it's at least five. So if you have Chinese food in the fridge for five days, it's risky.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think what could have been eaten by either of those ladies over the course that could The Chinese food exists. Would have to be cold.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it was cold.

[Bill Simmons]

But remember I'm saying it initially cold like a, like a cold low main, something like that.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you talking about like what they.

[Bill Simmons]

The actual order?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh yeah. What was the order that they were like, that's cool. This tastes normal.

[Bill Simmons]

Because if it's like just beef with broccoli, that thing, that thing's like moving Thursday.

[Van Lathan]

But also it was like it was so late. They could have been like, oh my God, it's just not hot anymore. Hungry as fuck.

[Bill Simmons]

One of those things smelled really bad, I'm guessing. So Merriman sprinting?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Wasn't impressed. Guy was supposed to be like this kick ass football player. I didn't like how he ran. I don't know whether like some back.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you mean like in the Miles Turner way where you're like, I don't like how you run.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't feel athletic enough to me. Combine. I'm crossing him off my list.

[Chris Ryan]

He didn't go pro, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's a high school player.

[Bill Simmons]

Just jumped out to me. Looks.

[Chris Ryan]

What if he got his knee blown out?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe. You know what, we're making excuses for him. He looks slow.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I'm not making any excuses for him. I'm saying respect him. Man, this man might have got some shrapnel in Baghdad or Fallujah or something, right?

[Bill Simmons]

You. Jesus. It's a thought experiment. Insulting the military. Well, the, the body armor is probably heavy too. Yeah, I don't know, I just. I thought. I wasn't impressed with Pablo in terms.

[Chris Ryan]

Of jogging with full cavalry.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't love it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cr. You did this. When you initially wrote about this movie for the Ringer, you mapped out going from Montebello to the Federal Reserve Los Angeles branch all the way down to Alameda Street.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Alameda corridor. It.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a long time. And it could explain why they were in traffic and ended up getting caught. They put so much time and energy and thought into how to break into this bank. They never factored in the traffic part.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, they. They never factored the right lane being closed. And honestly that's the most quintessentially LA thing that happens in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That's just.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like I had plenty of time and now I'm 40 minutes late because they close her right lane.

[Van Lathan]

Also, they thought they would be clean. They thought they would be undetected. They thought they plan was going to be sound. And so they didn't know that they were up against super cop linebacker Big.

[Bill Simmons]

Nick Big Nick caught him. Any other nitpicks?

[Chris Ryan]

The only other one that I had was Merriman is super offended by Big Nick's behavior. But I would not describe Merriman as really putting an emphasis on his family, you know, like, because he does basically make his girlfriend sleep with Big Nick to throw, like a. Put him on a wild goose chase. So practice what you preach, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That's all I'm saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Fair.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That'S fair. I can go along with that.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel, prequel, prestige tv, all black cast are untouchable. Next category. We were getting a sequel, but I.

[Chris Ryan]

Would take a prequel.

[Bill Simmons]

I take a prequel and a sequel.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, a prequel will be a great way to bring Mammon's character back.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but you have to shrink them a little bit, you know, get him smaller.

[Bill Simmons]

Next category is, is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejs, Sam Jackson? No. Byron Mayo, Harley Mays, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? Do we add Big Nick to this category going forward? What movie's worse with Big Nick's out?

[Chris Ryan]

Right. Should we get Philip Baker hall out and Big Nick in?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm happy to do that.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

What movie would Big Nick not make better? Like rom coms? He'd make better horror films. Just be coming into a house where there was an exorcism.

[Chris Ryan]

Driver was friends with Big Nick in Marriage Story.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Just got a dump.

[Bill Simmons]

Her brother.

[Van Lathan]

If Big Nick was friends with MLK and Selma, hey, gotta get across the fucking Edmund Pettus Bridge.

[Chris Ryan]

Let me tell you something, brother.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm in. So we'll add Big Nick.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. I. I was thinking about what would happen if Wayne Jenkins was Big Nick's divorce attorney. Oh, God damn, Big Nick. I didn't know I was watching Kramer versus Kramer. Don't you. Don't you know about having a burner phone for strippers? I hope you had a prenup. You better get a mediator in here, big dog, or you're going to be paying alimony a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

Wayne, he's back. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Should we just say Christian, because he's here?

[Van Lathan]

I would say. You know what's funny? Like, not to dick rock, but like. I would say script, though. I would say script.

[Bill Simmons]

The Christian still wins.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I'm saying script. Yeah, you wrote. I would say script. It's an inventive script.

[Chris Ryan]

If I was gonna go with anybody but Christian, I. I honestly would go. Pablo.

[Bill Simmons]

I had.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. Best and worst job for the people driving the armored truck. Worst job is Sitting in the back. Yes, inside. Because that guy always gets blown up. If anything bad happens, I would be like, we're fucking drawing straws to see who's sitting.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to know what's. What's a medium bad day for an armored truck guy? Me, like, donuts happened, right? Bad day is Den of Thieves happen or heat happens or whatever. What's like that? We're just going over a lot of potholes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Or the bank was slow getting us out of there or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Like what didn't get home in time for the football game because there was a lane closed.

[Van Lathan]

Movies like this make me wonder, like, what kind of people are the Armor Car people?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because you know, if I'm driving the car and the guy goes, we got armor piercing. And we about to. Y'all up if you don't give me the money.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, yo, take it. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, bro, you can have money.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna go in that donut shop. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

You want some?

[Bill Simmons]

When I come back, you want me.

[Van Lathan]

I could throw them out there. But it's the Armor Car and all of these movies, the armored car guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Always like, I'm gonna die doing what I love. Yeah. Protecting money in a truck.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not saying that's whack. I'm just saying, yo, who the are these guys? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Bill Simmons]

What are other answerables?

[Chris Ryan]

I wanted to know if Ray Merriman was a tribute to Sean Merriman as a football player. And how would Van talk his way out of sending that text?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, what?

[Chris Ryan]

How would you have talked your way.

[Bill Simmons]

Out of sending your Big Nick at six in the morning?

[Van Lathan]

Oh. Oh. Oh, shit. Okay, well, look, Let me see that. Oh, that wasn't me. So look, let me tell what happened. So my homeboy, his phone, we was all there. I was dead.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Van Lathan]

I spent a lot of money. Okay. You probably shouldn't look at the bank statements for a little while. Baby, I spent a lot of money, but my phone died and I'm leaving and my man, or excuse me, his phone died. I apologize.

[Chris Ryan]

Boracho's phone?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, his phone died and he wanted to hook something up. You know, he. You know, he had just got divorced or whatever. He's trying to see what's up. So I gave him my phone and he was texting. I know you're not stupid enough to think that I would text you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, how can you think that? How can you think that I would say that?

[Van Lathan]

As a matter of fact, stop accusing me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Because I've been at work and I asked for one night a month to go out with my boys. I'm trying to do this nigga Asali, and all of a sudden, you getting at me. I don't want to hear this no more. Give me the keys. Give me the keys. Gas lit.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you went home and you.

[Chris Ryan]

Were just like, oh, Chris Ryan borrowed my phone.

[Van Lathan]

That was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. CR. When Donnie meets Merriman, that scene when he goes over and they're all, like, grimly eating barbecue. Outside, it looks like the Boogie Nights house. Did you notice that?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. Outside, when they're. I mean. Yeah. Slightly bigger, but it gives you the same kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

It feels more like South Bay adjacent to me than the Valley. But. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because there's the pool. When they. When they show the back, it's on the left. But I researched this and all this movie was filmed in Atlanta, basically, so it was not the Boogie Night's house.

[Van Lathan]

You know, I haven't talked about in the movie almost at all who. 50. Of all the roles that 50 has been in, 50 is. He fits like a glove into this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. You could actually make the argument that he should have lived because 50 then didn't. Den of Thieves 2 is, like, a huge thing right after power and everything.

[Van Lathan]

Like, he. Like, normally when you see 50 on screen, he's such a gigantic personality and a gigantic figure that you go, that's 50 Cent. But in this rule, in this role, he's muted. He plays off of Pablo's character really well. He's really, really good at. This is.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't put him in Apex Mountain because it's. It's.

[Chris Ryan]

We know it is Get Rich or Die Trying album.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that.

[Van Lathan]

That.

[Bill Simmons]

That year that when his album broke, was his Apex.

[Van Lathan]

Biggest rapper in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

But this was, I think, the best movie that he's been.

[Van Lathan]

This is probably his movie Apex.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is.

[Van Lathan]

I would definitely say this, his movie Apex.

[Bill Simmons]

Best double feature choice. What would you go with? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Den of Thieves 2. Pantera.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there you go.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Deliver for Client.

[Bill Simmons]

The Indian Red Zawane Award. What happened the next day? Den of Thieves 2.

[Chris Ryan]

Pantera.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? That's not the Chinese food that's stuck in the bathroom.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, man. I get enamored with all the hardware that's always in these movies, but I'm not gonna pick that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, see, I had that. I had Pablo's vest in this movie would be cool.

[Van Lathan]

I always love the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

So many bullet spots. Yeah, it's like 2,000 bullets.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. But it'd probably be one of the donuts with a little bit of blood on it.

[Bill Simmons]

Stunt doughnut. What do you have? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

Either the donuts or Donnie's Trans Am or whatever he was driving when he's like, oh, drive.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the coach. Finstock Aware. Best life lesson, never underestimate a bartender.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, never.

[Chris Ryan]

That's definitely what I left the film thinking about.

[Bill Simmons]

Or if you're going to. If you're going to pull off a heist, maybe try to figure out a better traffic situation. If you're going to spend 10 weeks casing a bank, maybe try to figure out how you're getting Alameda.

[Van Lathan]

I have one question I want to ask before. Just to compare some stuff, just real quick. Let's say you have one job you have to pull, and the job is robbing a large bank in Miami. Right. Whose crew are you gonna want to rob this, mate? You're gonna want.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, from movie crews.

[Van Lathan]

Movie crews. Danny Ocean's crew.

[Bill Simmons]

Nah, too soft.

[Van Lathan]

Neil's crew. Neil's crew or Merriman's crew?

[Bill Simmons]

Neil's crew.

[Van Lathan]

You think Neil's crew.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like.

[Bill Simmons]

Do I get Dennis Haysburg in Neil's crew?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that online gambling was probably not kind to Chris Shaherlis. And by the time you get to our contemporary moment, he is really distracted.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, that's. He too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's like him just being crippled by, like, I gotta get my bets in.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, doing a Monday night, I.

[Chris Ryan]

Would go, merriman's crew.

[Van Lathan]

There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. Merriman's crew has more size.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because. Because Ray's probably, what, five inches taller than anyone? He's five inches on size. More. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. I think if the bank. I think the. Because the bank is in Miami, I'm going with Merriman's crew.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, obviously the. The correct answer is the town, because you get Jim, who's fucking. Take all these guys.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Five, eight, Pitbull.

[Chris Ryan]

Those guys get killed on the second robbery.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Who won the movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Christian.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. For sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Shepherded it. No, he shepherded it from, like the early 2000s up at the screen.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. 15. 15 years of working on a movie, then all of a sudden it leads to this. All these years later.

[Van Lathan]

Can I give you the rewatch?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I meant dead thieves, too, not the re.

[Van Lathan]

Can I give an.

[Bill Simmons]

In theaters January, there'll be a cop Out.

[Van Lathan]

Is it possible that in this instance, the movie won the movie? And let me tell you why I say that is because very rarely is a film thought about so highly by everyone that's seen it. And for some reason, it was unexpected to people, like, how much they enjoyed it. Like, everybody that talks about it talks about, like, you know, people that said it wasn't great don't know what they're talking about. And the movie itself, it was able to maintain that kinetic energy, and everybody's interested enough to, like, have a sequel that people are really going out to see. So in this case, maybe the movie won the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That's interesting because it so rarely happens that they make a movie that has expectations for just, I hope this movie does okay in the theaters.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm gonna try this in three weeks where I do the movie one the movie. And he's gonna be like, you can't do that.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say either Christian or Pablo Schreiber, because this is one of those movies that makes you wonder, like, man, should there have been more stuff for him? Like, was there, you know, could there have been an action franchise for him or. I don't know. And he's had a really good career, done a bunch of things, but could there have been like a signature hook franchise, action thing? Yeah, I think Halo, that could have been Jack Reacher.

[Van Lathan]

The Halo thing was a gigantic thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's in the nerd verse, though, right?

[Van Lathan]

Well, it was on Paramount.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus, that's like your people watch that. The. The Nerds. The Ringer verses.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, clean it up.

[Bill Simmons]

I said the nerds.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, clean it up. Marky Mark.

[Bill Simmons]

I said the nerds. How dare you. No, but that's in the ringer verse universe.

[Van Lathan]

The Ringiverse. Yeah, but that. But to your point, that was his big. His big deal.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it does. Honestly, it does not need a better sex scene in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you really want to see Big Nick going at it with. With the stripper raised girl?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I. Not. I. I think this movie has the right amount of sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, we're going to wrap it up.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

To Lionsgate. And check out Den of Thieves too. Pantera. All right, that's it for the Den of Thieves re rewatchables. Don't forget we're going to be doing a mailbag at some point this month or next month. So if you want to send a question that you want us to answer, a category, idea, whatever, just send it to the rewatchables33mail.com we will see you. Not sure when next. It could be later this week. It could be next week. Stay tuned.

[Van Lathan]

It.