‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Summary

The Rewatchables: ‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt – Episode Summary

Introduction In this heartfelt episode of The Rewatchables, hosts Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt delve into the legacy of the late Val Kilmer, focusing particularly on Kilmer’s role in the 1997 action film The Saint. Released on April 5, 2025, this episode offers an in-depth exploration of Kilmer’s career, the nuances of The Saint, and the broader context of 1990s Hollywood film remakes.

Val Kilmer: A Legacy Remembered Timestamp: [02:14]

The episode opens with Bill Simmons expressing profound sadness over Val Kilmer’s passing, highlighting Kilmer’s impact beyond the typical leading men of Hollywood. “I think I'm a little surprised how upsetting it was because this is not Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks. It’s not one of these all-time leading men legends. It’s just someone who has shown up in our life for years and years and was always cool” ([03:28] Bill Simmons).

Kyle Brandt adds, reflecting on Kilmer’s versatility and unique presence in films: “Val Kilmer could vacillate. He could lead a movie and be on a poster. Right. He could be on Batman. He could be in The Saint, he could be in The Doors, but usually there was some sort of gimmick that came with it” ([04:16] Kyle Brandt). Both hosts lament Kilmer’s lack of major award recognition, contemplating the critical oversight despite his memorable performances.

Dissecting The Saint Timestamp: [04:16]

Bill and Kyle transition into a detailed analysis of The Saint, a film that they both hold in high regard despite its mixed reception. Kyle explains the complexity of the movie's plot, noting, “I watched it 15 times before I understood it. It’s what it is and why I like this so much. It’s a great hang” ([37:43] Kyle Brandt). Bill concurs, appreciating the film’s action sequences and Kilmer’s performance: “He’s got to cook. So I did a top five… My top five characters in this” ([17:53] Bill Simmons).

Character and Plot Analysis Timestamp: [35:41]

The hosts dive into the intricacies of the film’s narrative and character development. Kyle provides a comprehensive plot summary, emphasizing the convoluted nature of the storyline and the technological premise of cold fusion. “So he gets the real formula in. So when the President shows them how cold fusion is going to work, it works. And Tretiac, who’s been saying it’s not going to work. He basically becomes the Nico Harrison in this whole thing” ([37:43] Kyle Brandt).

Bill critiques the character arcs, particularly Simon Templar’s (Kilmer) portrayal when not in disguise: “When he’s not in costume, Simon’s not great. He’s not terribly charismatic. He’s underplaying it” ([64:04] Bill Simmons). They both discuss memorable scenes, such as the embassy chase and dinner seduction, highlighting the film’s strengths in action and chemistry between Kilmer and Elizabeth Shue.

Casting Choices and Unrealized Potential Timestamp: [66:16]

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the casting decisions for The Saint and hypothetical alternatives. Kyle expresses frustration over the director’s choices, particularly criticizing Philip Noyce: “I think Noyce had Mel Gibson… but he didn’t work out. Ralph Fiennes was offered a million dollars to be in it and pass Schindler. Ralph Fiennes… he lost the Oscar. So Ralph Fiennes” ([73:36] Kyle Brandt). Bill supports the original casting, emphasizing Kilmer’s suitability for the role: “I want to see him play the fucking saint. I want to see him do all those parts” ([82:50] Bill Simmons).

1990s Hollywood and the Era of Remakes Timestamp: [13:57]

Bill and Kyle reflect on the trend of 1990s Hollywood remaking classic TV shows and films, such as The Saint, Charlie's Angels, and Lost in Space. Kyle criticizes the lack of originality, noting, “they were like, the Saint. Sure, let’s…it’s boring” ([22:32] Kyle Brandt). They discuss how these remakes often failed to capture the essence of the originals, leading to mediocre cinematic experiences despite substantial budgets.

Memorable Scenes and Gimmicks Timestamp: [41:22]

The conversation highlights several standout scenes and gimmicks in The Saint, including Simon’s multiple disguises and the film’s distinctive use of a cold fusion theme. Bill praises Kilmer’s ability to seamlessly switch between characters: “The coolest thing that The Saint does is the costumes” ([16:34] Bill Simmons). They also dissect the film’s soundtrack, with Kyle appreciating the integration of electronic music and iconic tracks like Orbital’s theme song.

Critical Reception and Legacy Timestamp: [40:47]

Bill addresses the film’s critical reception, referencing Roger Ebert’s review which critiqued Kilmer’s performance for being too realistic for a spy character: “He [Val Kilmer] almost plays it too straight” ([20:26] Kyle Brandt). However, both hosts defend the film’s charm and its status as a cult classic, appreciating its action-packed sequences and Kilmer’s charismatic performance.

Unanswered Questions and Final Thoughts Timestamp: [89:50]

As the episode wraps up, Bill and Kyle ponder the film’s unresolved plot points and the global implications of its fictional cold fusion technology. They humorously speculate on alternate outcomes and the potential for sequels, blending nostalgia with critique. Bill closes with a heartfelt tribute to Val Kilmer: “I miss you, Val” ([97:02] Bill Simmons).

Notable Quotes

• “It’s like we lost the coolest character actor of all time.” – Bill Simmons ([03:28])

• “Val Kilmer could vacillate. He could lead a movie and be on a poster.” – Kyle Brandt ([04:16])

• “If you want to live, you believe my side.” – Movie Quote ([02:16])

• “He could do everything. And yet you’re right. It wasn’t like the type of career that could go for 35 years.” – Bill Simmons ([05:45])

• “The workout with the mustache, the disguises, it’s so compelling.” – Bill Simmons ([16:34])

• “She gets up in front of students and she goes, I don’t really have anything to say. Do they have any questions?” – Quote on Emma Russell’s character ([45:07])

• “How long are these two lasting? She’s just solved cold fusion, keeps the President in charge.” – Kyle Brandt ([90:21])

Conclusion Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt’s episode on The Saint serves as both a tribute to Val Kilmer’s versatile acting career and a critical examination of a 1990s action film that, while flawed, holds a special place in the hearts of its fans. Through engaging dialogue, personal anecdotes, and sharp analysis, the hosts provide a comprehensive look at what makes The Saint a rewatchable classic.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the.

[Kyle Brandt]

Same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games, the X's and O's.

[Bill Simmons]

The drama, the trades.

[Kyle Brandt]

The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love.

[Bill Simmons]

So.

[Kyle Brandt]

So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's go.

[Kyle Brandt]

This episode is brought to you by HBO's biggest series, the Last of Us. Returning with a new season on Max. Starring Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey. The show picks up five years after the events of the first season as Joel and Ellie are drawn into conflict with each other in a world even more dangerous and unpredictable than the one they left behind. CNN calls the Last of Us exquisite, fully realized and worthy of the hype. The Ringer covers the show on House of R and on the Midnight Boys. Based on the groundbreaking video game, the Emmy winning HBO original series the Last of us premieres Sunday, April 13th on Max. And listen to the official the Last of Us podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, this episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. It's starting to look like spring. And spring starts with savings at the Home Depot. There are savings for every project, whether you're starting with a clean slate with convenient cordless power like a new pressure washer or leaf blower, or starting to love the art again with colorful flowers and fresh mulch. Start your spring with early savings at the Home Depot. Shop [e-mail]. the Rewatchable is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can get this podcast as a video on Spotify. I would highly encourage you to do so. You can also go on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and see a bunch of old reels, rewatchables that we've done, including ones with Kyle Brandt, who's here today. Val Kilmer passed away. We're going to talk about one of our favorite Val Kilmer movies. Not a movie you probably expected. The Saint. It's next. For an American scientist caught in a world of espionage, there is no escape.

[Bill Simmons]

Bring her to life.

[Kyle Brandt]

And now the man who was hired to betray her, Martin de Bors, is the only one who can save her. If you want to live, you believe my side. Val Kilmer, Elizabeth Shoe, the Saint starts Friday, April 4th, everywhere. All right, Kyle Brandt, you're basically. You were kind of semi off this week. Kids were off from school. Wasn't really a rewatchables taping week for you, but you had to move stuff around because Val Kilmer passed away this week, people. I don't. I don't think it was a massive surprise because he'd been sick for a long time, yet it was a total surprise because Val Kilmer is no longer with us. And we were texting. We had talked about doing the Saint forever, which I don't think would crack most people's top five Val Kilmer list, but for us it does, and we'll get to that in a second. But Val kilmer, big picture, 20,000ft overhead. What are your thoughts?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I've been really moved by this, more so than I even expected to be. Over the last 48 hours. I've been upset. I've been on, you know, our show, Good Morning Football, talking about it as much as the NFL will allow me to just talk about an actor and not, you know, Cam Ward or Shadour Sanders. And I think I'm a little surprised how upsetting it was because this is not Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks. It's not one of these, like all time leading men legends. It's just someone who has shown up in our life for years and years and was always cool. And I'm looking at him, Bill, it's like we lost the coolest character actor of all time. And that, I think, really was what he was. And that's really his legacy. Looked like a leading man, had the talent of a leading man, but was better off playing bass instead of being the lead singer.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it's weird because he could vacillate. He could lead a movie and be on a poster. Right. He could be on Batman. He could be in the Saint, he could be in the Doors, but usually there was some sort of gimmick that came with it. And he was really at his best in a movie like Heat. I always felt like if you're thinking of him like an athlete, you think of like, Randy Moss, somebody like that. That Randy Moss could be on the wrong team and go 4 and 12 on the Oakland Raiders. Or you could put him on an awesome team with weapons everywhere, and then everybody's like, oh, my God, Randy Moss is amazing. And there's other actors like this. I think there's a Brad Pitt case a little bit too, where he's just way more fun in movies like Once upon a time in Hollywood. But with Kilmer, I thought, what was so weird about him? Super handsome. Like anyone I've ever dated has loved Val Kilmer. So he had that, but really quirky and just kind of hard to put a finger on. And I think that's what so like Heat. I don't really know what he's doing in that part. I just know I like it. The Saint. I'm not even sure he's good in the Saint, but there's something compelling about watching him the entire time. And then there's other movies like the Doors and, you know, some of the other Tombstone, the classics that he's been in where you're just like, God damn, this guy's great. Top Gun comes in just like all time DN waiters every time he's in. So he could do everything. And yet you're right. It wasn't like the type of career of a Cruz or some of these other dudes that could just go for 35 years. There was a shelf life to it, definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

And, you know, to continue the Randy Moss comparison, he. He at the end of his career before he got really sick, it was Randy moss on the 49ers and then the Titans, and it. It just wasn't happening anymore. But I think also part of his legacy is like, go to anybody and say, what's your favorite Val Kilmer role? Or, you know what, what's your favorite three Val Kilmer roles? I bet he's not the lead in any of those movies. I bet he's not. It's like his four most famous roles are five, six even. It's just like we're at Iceman, we're at Doc Holliday, we're at Chris from Heat, and then just other kind of supporting stuff, like his lead vehicles, even though we're doing one today. The Saint is a hack for him. He figured it out. He said, I want to play cool little interesting side characters, so just give me a movie where I play 10 of those and sew them together. And that's why it's fun to watch Val in the same.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. And he could also be good in movies that weren't that good, which was another weird superpower he had. Like, I really like Ghost in the Darkness. Goldman wrote it. Val's great in it. And Michael Douglas is horribly miscast, which Goldman wrote a whole chapter in his book about. But Val's good. He makes sense. He's got this weird. I think he's like a British accent or South African accent, whatever. It is. He always has to bring some sort of weird wrinkle to it. Even in heat, you know, he's. The hair is a little different. He's, like, volatile, but also hard to figure out, but kind of cool. And. And then the way he works the gun. Like, they always say how, like, military people would study how he. How well he was using a gun in that. The doors, he just disappears into. Jim Morrison. There was some stuff, the SNL account, that I really like on Instagram.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

They ran all the things from his SNL that he hosted in 2000. He's amazing. He was, like, one of the best random In N Out hosts they've ever had. He's doing Top Gun. He does Jim Morrison again. He's just floating around, all these different things. But if you guys.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're looking for some Kilmer this week, and we all are, one of the sketches Bill's talking about is it's with Chris Parnell and Will Ferrell. And later in life, Tom Kazanski is just an airline pilot, but he's still doing all this. He's like, we got a bogey at 6 o'clock. He's got tone on us. And Parnell's like, that's the 9:35 out of Tampa. Calm down. It's. It's a great sketch.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's going on the flight attendant. I don't like you because you're dangerous.

[Bill Simmons]

Dangerous.

[Kyle Brandt]

Do you want decaf?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I shave with a Mach 3 if you. If you think you're dead. All right, Tom. It's. It's a perfect sketch. He made fun of himself. And it's funny, Bill, because, like, this is a pretty serious guy. It's. It's a very serious actor. You know, like, we. We can get into the whole thing if people don't know, like, the youngest.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm ready right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do it. Youngest student ever into Juilliard in New York City. And if you've never seen, like, his upbringing, this guy grows up in Chatsworth, in la, in the Valley. He's got a couple of brothers. His younger brother is, like, the creative one in the family. He's the director. He's gonna go on and be the successful brother. His younger brother dies in the family Jacuzzi at 15 years old. Like, just dies there, right there in the property. And shortly after that, Kilmer shows up at Juilliard and, like, let's act. And he is like, a true, true thespian who is all about characters, acting, method, all of it. But then he wound up in movies like Top Gun, which just are for kicking ass and eating popcorn, which was fun.

[Kyle Brandt]

And he could do comedies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Kyle Brandt]

He could do weird accent movies. He could do weird part movies. And he would say over and over again, whatever movie he was doing. He needed some sort of challenge, some sort of thing that made it interesting to him. And it's funny because in the 90s, when the mag, all these. All the magazines kind of showed up, people covering the industry just got way better in all these different ways. The Internet's coming in the late 90s, but there was an awareness I had just somebody living in Boston who liked movies and knew nothing other than what I read of, like, oh, Val Kilmer's kind of difficult. That became a thing with him, and it kind of added to just the mystique of him. Like, he does Batman once and he's signed to do other ones, and they basically, like, let him out because he was kind of a pain in the ass by the mid-90s. Pain in the ass. Val Kilmer. And it was kind of hard to say what was real and what wasn't real. There was an Entertainment Weekly story about him in 96 that kind of hammered him. Premiere had this piece about him in 97. I have some quotes, but EW in 96 called him Mr. Unpopularity, saying how he was committing 6 million a picture and nobody liked working with him, which I don't think was totally true. But he was coming off from 85 to 96. Top secret, real genius, Top Gun, Willow, the Doors, Tombstone, Batman Forever, Heat, Ghost in Darkness. And then it starts to get weird right around the Saint, the movie we're talking about, because he's doing island and Dr. Moreau, which I might be the only person in America who likes that movie. I've never actually seen Batshit. It's Batshit. It's the craziest. I was trying to convince CR to do it for rewatchables. And even CR Is like, I don't know, man. It's like you're offering a plutonium and he's doing the Saint. But there's. This is the. From the premiere in 97, opinions about Kilmer swing from pro parentheses artist to violently conned, disturbed with demanding and difficult somewhere in between. He's aloof. No. He's shy. He's a liar. He's terrific. It brings out the worst in everyone. You just have to know how to handle him. And then a quote from Tom Sizemore. Never had I heard so much crap about an actor. I had such a good Time with, it's all bullshit. He doesn't explain himself to people. So people talk. Yeah, the action is the juice.

[Bill Simmons]

And to me, I miss the juice. Maybe this should go under. Like, what's age the best. I miss the problematic on set actor, like shoving the director and busting up the hotel room. You know, we got it a few years later, after Kilmer, it was Russell Crowe.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

But I mean, listen, Eddie Vedder was difficult. Axl Rose was a complete asshole. Like, those were my heroes in music. And there was something that was. I don't know if it's romantic, but maybe it was just good old fashioned cool about. Oh, yeah. He and Joel Schumacher exchanged blows on the set of Batman. Kilmer won't take any shit. He's so hard to work with, but he's so talented. They still do it. Like, I thought that was kind of cool back in the day. I miss it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. And Schumacher, I don't think history has treated him kindly the last 30 years, but he was one of the people that was killing him left and right. And then John Frankenheimer, who directed him, and now. And Dr. Moreau said, I will never climb Mount Everest and I will never work with Val Kilmer again. There isn't enough money in the world. And Schumacher was throwing him under the bus left and right. But I think he was just a really passionate artist who never wanted to be as famous as he got. But all these dudes, at the same time, they can't resist it. It's like, here's the Batman suit. And they're like, oh, fuck. All right, fine, I'll be Batman. And then you hate yourself that you did it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think that's why also, the Saint is actually a great movie to do for the Val Kimmer tribute, because I think this is the most interesting juncture of his career. Like at the. He's at the crossroads. So he's doing his thing. This is post heat. This is post tombstone. Michael Keaton decides I'm out on Batman. I'm not doing it. Kilmer gets a call while he's in Africa saying, batman's yours. Doesn't read a script, doesn't do anything, signs up for it. And he talks about this in his documentary. And this is when my opinion of Val Kilmer jumped leaps and bounds. He was so miserable playing Batman that. Not just because of Schumacher, but he's surrounded by Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones, who are actors. Actors and performers, and they're just painting scenery and chewing shit up and, like owning every scene and he's sitting there saying these stupid Batman lines and he can't move and he can't act. And it was like torture for him. It was heartbreaking to hear it for an artist. He's like, everyone wants to be Batman. I don't think everyone necessarily wants to play Batman. Like, that's Val Kilmer.

[Kyle Brandt]

So the Saint, which was a TV series that had been bounced around. And we'll talk about how this was, like a big TV remake thing and it comes out and it does. Well, it doesn't do amazing, but I had always heard about it. They were going to try to reboot it and Mission Impossible beats it by a year. Same studio, Paramount. And we'll talk about all the ways that was bad for the Saint. So I'm living in Charlestown in 1997, in Boston. I have the illegal cable box.

[Bill Simmons]

Great.

[Kyle Brandt]

Which I've talked about many times in the Rewatchables. And it would have, like, 12 pay per view channels. And if it was like the Saint was now on pay per view, it wouldn't be like, you got it on demand. It would be. It would run from 2 to 4, and then 4 to 6 and 6 to 8 and 8 to 10. And that's how I would watch some of these movies.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like a train.

[Kyle Brandt]

Just keep it on at the right time. I would be, like, writing my Boston Sports Guy column and I would just have the Santa in the background for three days. And I think that's why I like the movie so much. Because the movie's incoherent.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

We'll go over the plot. The plot is like, you have to watch this movie seven times to even fully understand what's happening. It's what it is and why I like this so much. It's a great hang. This is like, I can't think of a better, like, airplane movie than the Saint. You're paying attention. You don't really have to pay attention. Elizabeth Shue looks amazing. Kilmer looks great. He's wearing weird disguises. There's a couple chase scenes. And it's a hang. And it's over. And this is where I'm going to throw. I'm doing it right now. The cr. The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris for it.

[Bill Simmons]

You're going to do it in the open.

[Kyle Brandt]

Let's go do it in the open. I've said this forever, and I'm going to say it now. This should have been born Mission Impossible. There should have been six of these. It really makes me mad. I felt this way for 30 years.

[Bill Simmons]

And it wasn't ostensibly because it was a hit, but not like a mega hit. And then Kilmer was probably difficult. And then. What is the other reason sitting there? I. I don't know.

[Kyle Brandt]

Mission Impossible.

[Bill Simmons]

So Mission Impossible comes out in 96 and they. Why not go head to head with that? They can't do it. Mavericks got too much for Iceman. Is that the. That's the reason.

[Kyle Brandt]

So I think. I think there's other reasons. They didn't really hit the full potential of what this could have been. Partly because Mission Impossible had already happened. Now there's this whole alternate universe where the Saint just comes out in 94 and probably shifts what Mission Impossible is. But I think the reverse happened. But if you just look at it, great name. I know what it is. The Saint. Repeatable action movie gimmick. Guy who's kind of a spy, but he's a thief and disguises are his gimmick. Great lead actor. I want to spend more time with Val. Just like Damon starts born. Okay, great. More Damon. We have a superhero origin story within the orphanage.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we sure do.

[Kyle Brandt]

The girl falls to her death and it's like, oh, shit, we're on location. There's action, there's villains. What else do I need?

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Kyle Brandt]

We should have had five of these.

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Kyle Brandt]

The Saint. Budapest. The Saint, Argentina. Like, what the fuck are we doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, let's go. It's like Real Housewives just move them all over. The coolest thing that the Saint does is the costumes. Right. Like, the problem is though, is that Mission Impossible almost does the exact same thing with the masks. Almost kind of in a cooler way.

[Kyle Brandt]

Better. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like they take. It's just a better made glove and hit it better. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's just Cruise is a little more compelling than Kilmer when he's just being the agents. And so I hear you on that. Like it's Mission Impossible. Superior product. And then the Saint would have to market corrected a year later and he didn't have that kind of firepower.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's an all time market correction. And the irony of it is you have Maverick fucking beating the Iceman yet again. He just. Maverick just. Just out fought him one more time. Same thing. No difference than Kaczynski flying in that whatever conflict we were in in 1986 and Maverick became the hero. All Kaczynski did was just kill it. Top of his class, just. Just getting wins left and right. Goes on. Has a better job, as we found out in Maverick has just way more important than the country. And Maverick still somehow wins. Same thing here.

[Bill Simmons]

And it cuts even worse because meanwhile, you know, Kaczynski is trying to make up for it by getting with Maverick's girl from Cocktail. And, like, that doesn't do anything either. Like, there's a whole universe involved here.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's fucking bullshit. I. I love this gimmick. There's a. There's a couple other things I love, but with. What's. We got to do the disguises now. It can't wait for the categories.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Kyle Brandt]

So I have everything written down. I know. I know that you have something. Go. Go do your thing. Do your thing with the disguises.

[Bill Simmons]

They're the best. And you said, like, it's a great hang movie or airplane movie because the lead character changes every 10 minutes and you get a different cool voice from Kilmer, and he just gets to cook. So I did a top five. I got the top five. My top five characters in this. All right. And I'll start with number five. Number five is at the end at the embassy. It's Southern accent, goatee guy.

[Kyle Brandt]

Little tinstone in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's number five because he sounds like Doc Holliday. And it's like, oh, shit, he's doing Doc and he hasn't yet begun to defile himself. Number four, Spanish guy on plane who's swinging the medallion.

[Kyle Brandt]

The seductorist super Jim Morrison, like, once again dips into past roles. It's a little Jim Morrisonish.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got a little bit of the Lizard King. His hair almost looks like Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast. He's got. All right. Number three, I got the grumpy cold fusion mumbo jumbo. You don't believe in this type of stuff. I like him. He's like a cross between Ernie McCracken and Joseph Lieberman. Like, he's just all over the place. That's my.

[Kyle Brandt]

With the big teeth, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible teeth.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

Comb over and he hits on the young girl. 2. I got German lipstick guy. It's so early. Do you want some coffee or something? Love in the train Terminal with the lipstick and everything.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's the one I wrote. His name's Bruno, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I can't remember their names. Is it named Bruno?

[Kyle Brandt]

I wrote that he looks like a Danish hairdresser or the fifth bg or both.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, he has the hair like the guy from Firehouse. Like, it's. And then number one, I got. I got the artist Thomas with the wine and the Sculpting and the like. I think that's the best part of the movie. That's my guy. You.

[Kyle Brandt]

I had all those written down. I don't want to sleep on. First time we see him, he's the gimp from Pulp Fiction climbing the building. We're in the same. The same album.

[Bill Simmons]

Verbal Kint.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, he's got that. I also enjoyed Russian Maid Lady.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure. Quick cameo in the background with a mop.

[Kyle Brandt]

I honestly could have spent another 40 seconds with Russian made Lady with him. And then Ivan Tretiak look alike guy.

[Bill Simmons]

He'S cosplaying Ivan Tretiak right to his face. It's great.

[Kyle Brandt]

I like that. I mean, so in the research, they openly say this. Cause this was what he was all excited about. They didn't want him to do as many disguises because they felt like it was stepping on Mission Impossible. And it was like, you motherfuckers. You were developing this before Mission Impossible. But Kilmer was like, more and more and more disguises. And they were like, no, no, Lass, you're on the corner. I feel like every scene he could have been somebody different.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm actually. Listen. I actually don't like the scenes when he's not somebody. Like that's. We're gonna. The weak link of this movie, Bill. Like when he's not in disguise, he's not that great. It's kind of a little bit boring when he's just Val Kilmer. You're like, get back to the disguise. Even Leo K. Australian guy is like, guns make me nervous. I like it all. I don't want him outta our costume ever.

[Kyle Brandt]

So, Roger Ebert. I won't step on his review later, but he wrote, I've been trying to put my finger on the movie's key problem, and I think it may be that Kilmer plays the Saint too realistically. If you take a step back and really think about James Bond, you realize that he is mad. So is Batman. So is the Phantom. They live in fantasy worlds of their own creation and bring a certain style to their delusions. The Saint still harbors ordinary human emotions, and that will not do. Thought that was interesting. He's up. Val Kilmer almost plays it too straight. And yet I think that's why this movie is such a good hang. Because I don't feel like, you know, I'm never like. I never have to like, be too involved in fucking character arc, any of that shit. Get one flashback to the girl following her death in the orphanage. Other than that, he's just having fun Stealing money from people.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He's driving his car around. He's kind of fucking around. He's leaving notes for her. But when he's. When he's just Simon, it's like, you know how you said, like, you don't really know what. What Kilmer is doing in Heat? He's kind of just under planing and brooding, like that's. He's. He's not doing much as Simon. He's just letting the action handle it and he's letting Moscow handle it because it looks really cool.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. The old TV show remake era, we have to mention really quick.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure.

[Kyle Brandt]

This is a stretch of two Brady Bunch movies. The Flintstones, Addams Family, Charlie's Angels, the Fugitive, Beverly Hills, Billy Hillbillies, the Saint. There was more. And for some reason, I feel like, if you look back, Even though the 90s were amazing for movies and we had all these great stars and directors in there, this is also Hollywood telling us they're starting to run out of ideas.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was tough.

[Kyle Brandt]

They were like, the Saint. Sure, let's. Okay, greenlit, let's go. And they're just doing this with basically everything that came out in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

[Bill Simmons]

As a guy who was going to movies all the time, you and me as well, were you going out and being like, I gotta see John Goodman as Fred Flintstone. I'm there. I wasn't. I didn't care. I was kind of annoyed by it. I was that late teenager and like, even now I'm like, those movies I have no desire to watch. I would never show em to my kids.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. It almost seemed like the thing that hit the hardest was the casting. Even before you came out the movie, it'd be like, so John Goodman's gonna be Fred Flintstone. Like, okay. And then you would go see the movie. I remember one of the weirdest ones was Lost in Space, a TV show that wasn't even like, terrible, you know, I don't. I never felt like that show held up. And then all of a sudden they're making it and I think, like, Matt LeBlanc is in it.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt LeBlanc's in there. Lacy Chabert, William Hurt.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

They rounded off.

[Kyle Brandt]

Why did we do this?

[Bill Simmons]

And it amounted to nothing. We don't need. It's not like Star Trek or Star Wars. Lost in Space is kind of a reach, guys. We need that. But they're like anything that was on tv. Let's do it. They never made a Gilligan movie, but I'm surprised they didn't yeah, Like, I.

[Kyle Brandt]

Remember in the 2000s, I was really. When I finally had like, just enough juice to even get a meeting with anybody, and I was like, you gotta remake the right shadow. Gotta remake the White Shadow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

And you realize, like, if something hasn't really existed for 25, 30 years, why do you even have to remake it? Cause ultimately, the people that are gonna carry a movie or a TV show are in their teens or their 20s, and they have no history with the show. If you remade the White Shadow right now, nobody would fucking know what it was, you know? So, like, I felt that way with the Saint. I didn't know what the Saint was. It was like, oh, Roger Moore TV show in the 60s, like, great. I wasn't there. I don't know what that is.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they're not making White White shadow, but in 20 years they're going to be remaking White Lotus and people are just going to absolutely love it.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's cool.

[Bill Simmons]

They just hang out at hotels and fuck around like the shows we're watching now. In 20, 30 years, they'll be something.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Well, the Saint apparently inspired 14 movies. This was the initial thing which started. It was all these Books in the 20s written by Leslie Charteris. Just wrote dozens of novels. So no different than Bosch or some of these ones that exist now. And. And it kind of peaked with the 60s TV series, which was with Roger Moore, who then became Bond, became Bond. Another piece of this movie. Our girl, Elizabeth Shue. Let's go. You know, after Karate Kid and Cocktail, there's not a lot, not a lot left to do. Like she wanted to ask her. So what, like Oscars over here, Best Actress, fine. Other people have won Best Actress. Not everybody has gone toe to toe with Macchio and Cruz in a five year span. I don't know. When you fly that coast to the sun, Kyle, I don't know what's left for your IMDb, your career, whatever. But she wins the Oscar and this was one of her big movies. After the Oscar was really weird with. With certain actors, like Adrien Brody's another one. It's actor or actress. Sometimes that's not what you think it is. And in this case, she makes the trigger effect. The Saint deconstructing. Harry and Paul Meadow are her next four movies. And the moment kind of comes and goes, but this was the memorable one.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, then let me say this as we remember. Kilmer, Shue has an Oscar. Val Kilmer, never nominated for an Oscar, never nominated for a Golden Globe ever in his life. And I've seen a lot of things this week, and I think we should mention this. A lot of people are saying, oh, my God, Doc Holliday and Tombstone. How was he not nominated? It's an outrage. He wasn't nominated. I'm like, yeah, he's incredible. I went and did the rewatchables thing. Bill and I looked at who was nominated that year for best supporting actor. Holy shit.

[Kyle Brandt]

Loaded.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, 1993 was Tombstone, so it'd be the 94 Oscars. Let me read you the best supporting actor nominees. Leonardo DiCaprio, Gilbert Grave, Jesus. Ralph Fiennes, Schindler's List. John Malkovich, in the Line of Fire. Pete Postlethwaite for In the Name of the Father. And the Oscar goes to. Tommy Lee Jones for the Fugitive. I knew that was an elevated train, dude. That's a lineup. That's.

[Kyle Brandt]

And there's other stuff from that year, too, that's even. That's even worse. So he was in the 92 Oscars. Here's what we have for that one for the summer.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, let's go.

[Kyle Brandt]

Give me Hopkins, Silence of the Lambs. Not gonna argue.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Kyle Brandt]

De Niro and Cape Fear. No Argument. Max, Katie, Robin Williams and the Fisher King. Pretty good. Nick Tolte, Prince of Tides, maybe, I don't know, Warren Beatty and Bugsy, but Bugsy's just infuriating. Bugsy's all over the place in the Oscars. And it's like, really, Val Kilmer, he sings all of the music as Jim Morrison in the Doors. Not to mention everything else. So I think that was the one for him that he got boned on personally.

[Bill Simmons]

And remind me, that would have been before everyone started shitting on how hard difficulty was. Or maybe that's part of it.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's before. No, that's before because he made it through a movie with Oliver Stone, who I don't exactly think was Mr. Truman from Facts of Life.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think it worked. And we get to the. We've talked about this. But we get now up to the Saint, where I remember the story about. It was more than about the movie. It was about, like, Val Kilmer is an asshole. That was just. It was like the story was written about it. Sometimes this happens, especially back then, before Internet, like Water World. It was just. Is expensive and it's not that good. Like don't even like it. Or like we're even seeing it now with. With. Like. With Snow White. It's terrible. It's terrible because of all these reasons. You don't even have to see the movie, to know it's a disaster, or at least be told that it is the same. And some of that going on where it's just. It's the Val Kilmer asshole project. And it's not good, but it is pretty cool.

[Kyle Brandt]

And it's also a really good Elizabeth Shu movie. And, um, I thought she's a really important 90s, 80s, 90s person. We also have Ivan Trediak, played by the bearded bad guy from Taken two all those years later. Still evil, Younger, but just as evil. And then.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't you just smile when you see that guy?

[Kyle Brandt]

I love that guy. I'm gonna say his name because I don't care what his name is. I just know him from the Saint take it too. But he's been in 40 things.

[Bill Simmons]

He's in everything. You need a Russian guy who's kind of evil but charismatic and has a cool beard. That is your guy.

[Kyle Brandt]

And then his son Ilya, who's also really good because he has a sleazy ponytail. He's got a cocaine watch. Didn't even know those existed.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

But most importantly, an evil cane. Do we just not do props enough with our action movies? Like, I don't know why he's running around with the cane. He's using it. It's like almost like you would use it if you're walking on a tightrope crossing buildings and you need that balance thing. But the cane, I guess you can. I guess he can hurt people with it. It's made out of metal and it's never explained. He never talks about it. What is it?

[Bill Simmons]

He's totally able bodied. He certainly doesn't need it to walk. It's this. And this is. This is a little window dressing, a little lipstick to put on him. They even occasionally he'll do the like, like. And they'll add the sound effects when he does it. Like he's Zorro or something. And then at the end, you knew there was going to be a weapon. And there's like this little sticker that comes out of the end. That guy. Like, let's just say we can revisit that actor when it comes to recasting. And I think they're like, we got to give this guy some. We got the ponytail and we got the cane and the cocaine. Watch. Let's dress him up a little bit at least.

[Kyle Brandt]

If you're going to carry the. The evil cane around all movie, I need you to do some numb Chuck stuff with it or, like be able to flip it around and like, be. Just be a little more intimidating. He's carrying it. It's like, is this guy disabled? Is he doing this so he can get a better parking space? What are. What are you.

[Bill Simmons]

The ironic thing was Kilmer's last movie before this is Batman Forever, in which Jim Carrey has a cane that Carrey has talked about. He worked for months to get to do all those, like, the baton twirling thing. And he does it the whole movie. That's what you're looking for from the young Trediac.

[Kyle Brandt]

You know, I haven't revisited Batman Forever in a while. It is kind of crazy how loaded that cast was. They basically. They basically 20, 24, NBA Dream Team, the Olympics with the cast we have you mentioned Tommy Lee Jones and Carrie coming off 94 when he had the three monster movies. Nicole Kidman's in it right as she's doing. And then Chris O'Donnell was like, basically, big deal. Gonna be Matt Damon. And then Matt Damon's like, fuck that. And Market corrects him with Good Will Hunting. But the five of those people were pretty massive.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that movie played. It's that movie got the plane down. It's. The next one that came out was the disaster with Clooney and Schwarzenegger. And that one is just unwatchable garbage.

[Kyle Brandt]

Schwarzenegger is Mr. Freeze. Yeah. It's like a career ender. Everybody chill.

[Bill Simmons]

It was just. And by the way, like, Kilmer is. Look back. And at the time, they're like, you said no to a Batman movie. Nobody does that. He made the right choice. He dodged that bullet, and he gave us the Saint instead, which is way better than Batman and Robin.

[Kyle Brandt]

So the biggest thing from this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

And the legacy after it came out, other than I kind of like that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

The music was amazing at the. At the time. It's amazing now. There was a real moment, and I was a big. Like, I was a big. At the same time, simultaneously, like hip hop, rap, but also obviously, grunch, of course. And both of those things are exploding at the same time, and I love that. And I wasn't really the electronic scene. I was about a year late to. And I had a couple of friends who were in it, and there was a couple clubs in Boston that had it. And I was like, I don't get it. I don't get it. And this movie kind of got me into it. We have Orbital does the theme song, which I think is one of the better action theme songs. It's got the sneaker Pimp Song 6 Underground which I think is so good. Anytime you hear that a movie, it's so good. I love it. Daft Punk does Defunk, Moby has Oil 1, Underworld, Chemical Brothers. And Fluke is in it. And then Duran Duran's in it as, like, the old guys trying to play this music. And there's more stuff in there. But there was a specific moment. And I think this is the only movie that hit it correctly. Because by the late 90s, the moment kind of moved into something else. But all the. And it's all in there. And I think it's a big drawing card for this movie. This wasn't your music. You were more Pearl Jam.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, well, I was Merle Pearl Jam. But listen, and this is my. What's the most 1997 thing about this movie? He's sitting around on his, like, shitty 1997 computer negotiating with the Mafia, just blasting some Smashing Pumpkins in his apartment, no problem. And then he's in a chase scene with a shootout, and he puts the pumpkins back on as he drives. And it's like there was some exec bill that went to the filmmakers. They're like, we gotta get some pumpkins in. They're hot. Just put them in. And we're like, it's a movie in Russia. It doesn't really fit. Fucking put them in. Yeah, it's a cover of a car song and they're driving a car. It makes sense. Just putting. And I'm bobbing my head that you're all I've got tonight.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it was a really important CD in the mid-90s. Yeah, it. Because, you know, we didn't have Spotify back then. We didn't have Apple. We didn't have anything. And it's like you had to buy CDs that had as many possible songs that you might have liked as possible. And this one was great.

[Bill Simmons]

So listen, if 90s soundtracks, if you want to put it up there, the Crow is up there for me. Last Action Hero singles, Judgment Night and like those. And Singles, obviously, like singles is probably the number one, but those are the ones you had to have.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Above the Rim. I'd throw in two. Directed by Philip Noyce, who did Dead Calm, a really good movie with Nicole Kidman that made her not a star, but put her on the radar for everybody. Patriot Games, Clear and Present, Danger, Hell, yeah, the Saint and Sliver, with Sharon Stone. So he was busy in the 90s.

[Bill Simmons]

But first, basic Instincts, also known as Sliver. Tough one.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have some thoughts on him for later. Let's Take a break and then I want to tackle the plot really quick.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's go.

[Kyle Brandt]

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[Bill Simmons]

100 million.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second.

[Bill Simmons]

If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. All right, so I watched this movie with my wife, who really likes it. She loves Val Kilmer. We've watched this movie a couple times. I think we might have even been dating when it was on pay per View or maybe was on hbo. But I was always into it. And she just likes Val Kilmer. So we're watching it and I look over and she's just smiling. And I was like, you like this movie? And she's like, I really like it. I don't know what it's about and I don't really care. And I was like, that's perfect. You should have been on the movie poster. I'm going to try to explain what it's about.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, go.

[Kyle Brandt]

Just for the people who have watched this and kind of sort of understood. So we see Simon when he's dressed like the gimp. He steals a microchip from a Russian oil company. He's caught by Tretiak, by his son Ilya. All right, who's Tretiak? He is an oil billionaire.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

And this plot, which is really hard to figure out because they don't have, like, somebody actually explaining it to you. He's withholding energy from the Russians and they're like, having the worst summer ever because he's trying to make the president look bad because he wants to overthrow the president.

[Bill Simmons]

And people are freezing to death because they can't eat their homes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yes. So he gets this microchip. And then Tretiak and his son hire him. I. Instead of just killing him, which I. I guess is a nitpick. They could have just murdered him. But instead they're like, no, we're going to use him. He's going to try to get this cold fusion thing from us. And then we'll be able to use it. And then he's going to kill Simon. So Simon figures this out. He learns that this guy. Instead of selling the cold fusion formula. He's going to sell a fake formula to the President. The President's going to have this rally. And he's going to show how the cold fusion works. Then it's not going to work. And the Russian people are going to go, what the fuck? I thought you said we had cold fusion. We've got to overthrow you. And now Tretiak is going to take over. What he doesn't realize is the saint has 12 hours. And he gets the real formula in. So when the President shows them how cold fusion is going to work, it works. And Tretiac, who's been saying it's not going to work. He basically becomes the Nico Harrison in this whole thing. And he's like, you traded Luka Doncic. We fire Nico, fire Nico. He's the fire Nico. And his career's over. And that's how the Saint wins. That's what happens in this movie. I watched it 15 times before I understood it.

[Bill Simmons]

Same with me. I think you just said some things that explained it to me. I'm supposed to pretend I know what you're talking about and I'm not. And I'm like, oh, that's what happened. But, you know, it's the same thing. The same reaction to Mission Impossible the year before was no one understood what the fuck the plot is. And why is this guy alive now and he wasn't. And it was very, very hard to follow. And in the meantime, in this movie, it's like, what is this cold fusion? What is. I have no idea what that is and what that means. Especially me seeing it at 17.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then I knew the girl who was on the soccer team with Daniel LaRusso invented it. So it's very confusing and I don't know where we're going. But thank you for explaining it to me. Nevermind the people. I'd never gotten it.

[Kyle Brandt]

So it actually, on paper, sounds great.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if they executed it.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't think if they executed the narrative as well. As maybe they could have. And if you're going to nitpick maybe one or two more set pieces like that, you know, one of the best scenes that we'll get to is when they're running along the river and he has to go in the water. It's like two scenes short of stuff like that. But this is what makes me so mad, why we didn't have the Saint 2, because I think the Saint 2 almost would have been like, John Wick 1 versus John Wick 2, where John Wick 2, they're like, We've learned John Wick 1 worked. Some stuff didn't work. Let's fix it for John Wick 2. And it would be incredible. And I think this Saint II would have been incredible. I really do. It's like a huge missed opportunity.

[Bill Simmons]

It would have been a. Anything you can do, I can do better. With Mission Impossible, it would have been a cold war because they would try to one up each other every time. And, you know, Mission Impossible cruises hanging from the wires above the floor. Like, it was really cool. Saint 2 would have been there, also.

[Kyle Brandt]

Owned by the same studio. And there's this whole alternate universe where the Saint and Mission Impossible kind of cross over in a movie and we get Maverick versus Ice Again, they expanded. Maybe they're trying to do the same thing. Yeah, why not? Hey, this movie had a $90 million budget and made 169 million. So it wasn't a failure. That's another thing. Like, this movie made money. What the fuck? What are we doing?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just mad that they didn't have the crossover and that Ethan Hunt and Simon Templar didn't have like a shower scene in their towels where they're just nipping out and looking at each other and telling them, you're everyone's problem. Like, that's the scene we need.

[Kyle Brandt]

Rick Rastovich is there for no reason at all. Just Goose is there. Roger Ebert two stars. He called it a James Bond wannabe, which is an irony since James Bond, in a way, is a Saint clone. Says the fight scenes go on too long and are not interesting. The villains aren't single minded enough. What does work is the chemistry between Kilmer and Shu, whose scenes have a certain charm. But there's a Siskel and Ebert TV review of this and Siskel goes, siskel hated it. He goes, I think the disguises are a big mistake. I think it becomes the nutty Saint, if you will. In my response to that, instead of fuck you, Rog is fuck Eugene. Yeah, nobody asked you yeah, sorry to like disguises and. And locations. And action. Fuck you.

[Bill Simmons]

And I like the Nutty Saint. Did you not like the Nutty Professor? Because it was hilarious. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Kyle Brandt]

If I had the Nutty Saint. Sounds great. Watch that right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Ms. 30.

[Kyle Brandt]

Most rewatchable scene. So our choices are Moscow microchip heist, which is the gump from Pulp Fiction disguise. But then bushy mustache, English accent disguise, where he's basically like a hockey coach. He looks like he's, like, coaching the Buffalo Sabres in 1996. Kind of a look, but he's. This is where we find out. Trediac Gas and Oil Industries. You know, we're in good shape there. We get the Russian national anthem. I know. That's always.

[Bill Simmons]

Always brings it to your feet. Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

You think of Nikolai Volkov. Red October. Yeah, Red October. And we get the jump off the roof into the pit. Sure. Which these movies will do. It's just the truck is lined up down, you know, and that there's just enough padding that you can fall 16 stories and it's fine. I don't know if it works this way in real life, but I'm not going to question it.

[Bill Simmons]

How about the flex on Simon as he's falling down, he removes his mustache. As he's falling. I don't know if that's totally necessary, but he lands on what it looks like an inflatable truck. And every time he fucks over the Russians, guys, you get that it's pretty bad abs.

[Kyle Brandt]

When he takes off his mustache, you think like, it's going to turn into a parachute. And it's like. No, he's just. It's just. He's just fucking with him. Next one. Long hair. Val, your favorite character. What's this guy's name? Thomas Moore.

[Bill Simmons]

Thomas Moore, the artist who is like. He does the South African accent. Just very difficult to do. You saw the. Damon pulled it off in the soccer movie and then Kilmer learned it on set. And Ghost in the Darkness and he showed up. Very difficult to do. And he. The way the whole. I mean, we're going to. I have a lot to say about this scene from start to finish with Shu and the painting and the sculpture and the wine. It's fantastic. It's why you watch this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

So he seduces her at dinner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

There's an uneaten entire plate of spaghetti and meatballs next to. In front of Shu for the first part of this. I don't know if. I don't know if my hot cold fusion scientist was really a spaghetti and meatballs person, I don't know. I'll allow it, I guess. But she never touches it. And then it all leads to seduction, seduction, seduction. Abrupt departure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm gonna go smash a wine bottle against the wall for no reason. I'm gonna blade like I'm Bruno Sammartino in shea Stadium in 1978. Just bleeding, bleeding. And that's just too much for her. She has to have sex with him.

[Bill Simmons]

It's full Bret Hart, stone cold razor, cut yourself. And when he falls, there's that awesome moment where before he cuts himself, he goes, what are you doing? And then he just does it. And he's like, oh, I was weeping and I was thinking of you. And she just falls for it. I had this unanswerable questions, Bill. He, first of all, because this comes after the badass move with the wine where he's like, sir, that's 400. Da da da da. Which no waiter ever does. And he goes, let's take two of them. You count it. If you did that entire sequence to a woman, like, would that work in 2025? Like, would it just go disastrously? I don't know. If you're bleeding and cutting yourself, probably not. Right?

[Kyle Brandt]

I think it only works in Phantom Thread. The Paul Thomas Anderson movie with Daniel Day is the only other time that works. Yeah, it's, there's some sort of. You're preying on a woman who's very professionally busy but has no self esteem with men, which I think is the way they drew this character. Smoking hot. But nobody's ever hit on her because she's just, all she's doing is the cold fusion. Every day. Hasn't had time to meet anyone and this guy just hits it. By the way, I skipped over a scene with her. That's one of my favorites. Dr. Emma Russell answers cold fusion questions.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's go.

[Kyle Brandt]

The raw natural power just waited to be harnessed. You could drive your car 55 million miles, it would be the end of pollution. She's going and going, and I'm just like, I'm in this. This all sounds great. Um, at the same time, I, I, I still feel like, you know Brian Flanagan.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Talking about cocktails and dreams with him. I still feel like as a 10 out of 10 for her, as a career apex. This is pretty good, though, her laying out cold fusion.

[Bill Simmons]

This is, I guess, one of the smartest, most progressive scientists in the world. She gets up in front of students and she goes, I don't really have anything to say. Do they have any questions? And then they don't, of course. She's like, please. And finally one of these students is just like, how's it work? And then she starts spouting this shit about, well, positively charged deuterons attached to the palladium cathode. It's like, is this like a. A 12th grade science project? Is. You have a diorama. It's the most unsophisticated shit ever. And Val just sits back and he's just got hard eyes. He's like, I'm going to give away my entire style of living for this girl. I love her. And I guess Bill Simmons did too.

[Kyle Brandt]

You know, I thought it worked.

[Bill Simmons]

I think.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, here's the thing. I think they were. They were. They probably look at it like, all right, this lady's specialty is nuclear cold fusion. Yeah, These people probably aren't the greatest Hanks. So. And how do we. How do we excuse the fact that she's also beautiful, right. And fun to hang out with? So what's going to be her vice? I'd be like, oh, I can see why she hasn't found anyone. I just think they made her, like, try to be super insecure. Yeah, she's doing the thing, right? And I guess I. I guess on the positive side, mission accomplished. She looks like she's a 13 year old giving a seventh grade project.

[Bill Simmons]

This is my book report on. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. Like, what? What are you doing? There's no gravitas at all, but, like, listen, I know we're jumping around. One of the key character moments for her is when they're about to do it and she goes into the bathroom and she's like, this is really happening. This is really. I'm like, are you a fucking virgin? Like, what is this? Why do I feel like you're 16? The homecoming dance. This is so weird. You're like in your 30s.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think she's like, you guys, this is about cold fusion. But Judy Bloom's one of my favorite authors.

[Bill Simmons]

What are we doing?

[Kyle Brandt]

All right, a couple more rewatchable scenes. The Mouse Race Club.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's go.

[Kyle Brandt]

Anytime there's evil Russians, you know there's going to be a fun club. And, you know, they're all going to be hanging around a table with their arms around hot Russian women, and there's going to be some sort of weird gambling event. And in this case, it was a mouse race. And I got to say, I was kind of in, like, I know, ESPN's trying to come up with counter programming like, yes, Pickleball, and what's that one? Cornhole Mouse Races.

[Bill Simmons]

I was really intrigued by bad news for espn, though. Dana White's already adding it to his slap fight repertoire. We're going to race Rats. Listen, I had this for Benihana. This is a movie that features Red Square in Moscow. And I'm still like, I don't know. The Russian mafia, rat race, prostitute, coke den is pretty badass built. They have a fucking mariachi band inexplicably there. I don't know why. That place is wild. I want to.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love this scene. And then we have Simon dressed up like treac, going, you know what the hardest part of being you is? Pretending to be bad in bed.

[Bill Simmons]

Whoa.

[Kyle Brandt]

Next one is Emma confronting Simon after he's escaped. And she somehow figures out right away where he is, which we'll get to in picking nits. But she says, I would have given them to you if you asked. Being in the cold fusion. I like calling it cold fusion. I don't even know if I'm right. Is that what it's called? Yeah, it's cold fusion. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Cold fusion. Yeah, exactly. That's like the whole thing.

[Kyle Brandt]

Why doesn't Starbucks use cold fusion ice. Instead of doing the cold brew, why don't they add like a cold fusion? Because it doesn't. It couldn't even. Doesn't even necessarily exist or be the right thing.

[Bill Simmons]

We have cold fusion macchiato, no sugar, for Bill. For Bill.

[Kyle Brandt]

With triple non fat vanilla. It sounds like something my daughter would order. Okay, here's my favorite scene. I'm just going to tell you. This is my most rewatchable. Simon and Emma escape from Ilya and his crew. The wide shot of the river and they're running alongside the ice on the river, which is just fucking cool. It's definitely one of those, how did they do this? How did they not fall in hell?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

And then Val has to go in the water. I think this also gets. Great shot. Go toward Val's, I think. Gonna be dead in two minutes, maybe 30 seconds in that water. He's looking up, he's looking up again. She pulls him out. Really good stuff. We needed, like, two more of these scenes in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember being in the theater in this scene and people were losing their minds. They could not believe that they were pulling this off. And I just. I hate to have this angle on. I'm watching it yesterday and I was like, tom Cruise does this before he has breakfast. Now It's. It's. I've seen this so many times. Done way bigger. At the time in 97, it was like, wow, Kilmer's holding his breath for that long. Like, Tom Cruise holds his breath for an hour while he's, like, spelunking. It's. It's. It's just.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

The game has changed since back then. You know what I mean? It's like, now everybody's running 4:3. The linebackers run 4:3. It's different now.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Cruz is doing this for real. And there's 17 doctors on hand because he can only be in there for 3 minutes and 22 seconds before his body will shut down. But Cruz wants to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And he's 25 years older at this point. Like, it's. It's. He's just outdoing everybody.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Well, we also get the Emma stripping to warm him up. Great gimmick. I have hypothermia. Can you lie on me with just your bra? Warm me up.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you make sure it's, like, a smoking hot black bra? Like, make sure it's not just some, like, entry level thing? Like, I need something smoky, sexy as. That's. That's a landmark scene for me.

[Kyle Brandt]

And then escaping the waterlog tunnels, heading to the embassy is good. Get a good little embassy run. Absolutely not quite an angry run that you've patented because she's a little. Little sloppy. And Ilia comes in for the grab, but she gets in and then. Then we get a little Russian roulette with Val during that scene as well. I like when we do a gimmick that's named after the country that we're actually in. I think they get bonus points for that. And then last one I have is a cold fusion parade rally. That's the actual ending. Question mark. Sure. That's how they end this movie, with a cold fusion rally.

[Bill Simmons]

They do. And, Bill, I don't know if you have this here or somewhere else, but you sent me the link of the alternate ending that they did have it somewhere else.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay, good, because I'm happy to discuss it now.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, discuss it, because I had never seen that before and I watched it riveted, and it's radically different, what they did.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. So it's a big. It's on YouTube and it's in Russian. For some reason, it's not an American. I don't know how it got out, but it's a whole action thing where Kilmer goes in and it's like people are getting shot and it's building. Things are blowing up. And Ilya dies. It kind of seems more like a Mission Impossible movie. And I have no idea why they didn't include it. The only thing I can think of is did they decide they didn't want the Saint to actually kill anyone in this movie? Cause he doesn't kill anyone in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think that they pivoted to the bigger love story because there was reshoots and I know Shu was in a bunch of them. And after the light comes on in the red square, it turns into a Nicholas Sparks novel. And it's like they're at a cottage making love and kissing each other in bed. They ended it with the love story. And that was a choice. And they're like, let's add more shoe. And I saw. I watched the video. It looked like a kind of a Pierce Brosnan era James Bond ending.

[Kyle Brandt]

It was fine.

[Bill Simmons]

It was fine.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, how they ended it, it made somebody like my wife happy because she was just like, I really like this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know. I like it ending in the cottage. So what do you have for most rewatchable?

[Bill Simmons]

I still like my guy Thomas the Artist. When he's just like, just a traveler searching for truth. What are you searching for? And she's like, I found it. I'm looking for you. Let's jump in the sack. That's my scene.

[Kyle Brandt]

What's the most 97 thing about this movie? I'll give you some options.

[Bill Simmons]

Go ahead.

[Kyle Brandt]

The soundtrack we talked about.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

A movie not realizing that Mission Possible also existed as they were making it. I think their choices are a lot different every scene involving the Internet. Like all of them. My personal winner is the Nokia 9000 Communicator. Yeah. Which was a cutting edge phone in 96. It was a handheld, but it was also a clamshell pocket computer. And it had a little keyboard and apps. And I did not have it because it was expensive. And I might not have known anyone that had it. And I might not have ever seen it until this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This was still paging people 911 call me. Nobody had that thing. And that's why it was so cool. I do like what you said about everything about the Internet. How come when they email each other in this movie, it looks like a Wheel of Fortune screen where there's like six words at a time. That's all you can do. And it blew our minds back then.

[Kyle Brandt]

We could have done a rewatch. Was month of just how they got the Internet wrong with movies in the 90s and disclosure and this movie and the Net, like, it's just. There's a four year window. I know where they're like, the Internet, we got to work it in. And they have no idea what they're doing with any aspect of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, this is up there. It's. And it's. He's constantly on the computer and they're in their car in the computer and there's like one of those antennas that comes out of the car to get Internet signal. The emailing is very strange.

[Kyle Brandt]

But what do you have for this category?

[Bill Simmons]

I'll go with the phone I had smashed in pumpkins earlier, but I like the phone that turns into a computer.

[Kyle Brandt]

New category just for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, what do you got?

[Kyle Brandt]

The Fatal Attraction guy gets framed award for original ending that the test audiences hated so much they had to reshoot it. In the original version of this movie, Dr. Russell collapses and dies during a lecture with about a half hour of the movie to go. And what happens is Ilya is. She's doing a lecture and Ilya comes from behind and stabs her with his evil cane. And it's got poison on it. And that's how it goes. And then the last 30 minutes is the saint just wreaking havoc on everybody, John Wick style. And the test audiences did not like it it. And they had to do two giant days of reshoots over eight days in December 96 and then another eight days in January 97 that cost 2 million bucks as they turned it into what you just mentioned. And that's why I think that Russian ending was in there. Because he's getting his revenge.

[Bill Simmons]

Because in the last 30 minutes it turns into death wish and he just starts kicking ass. I'd always heard that at the end of Pretty Woman that Edward was going to die or something before he goes back and gets Vivian. And they're like, no, no, no, give us a good ending. It's the 90s. People want this type.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, we just did the Goodwill hunting one and Gus Van Zant was saying that he wanted Affleck to die in a construction accident right before Will went to see about a girl. And they. They like wrote the scene out and they're like, this definitely doesn't work. Let's get rid of this. Yeah, bad ideas.

[Bill Simmons]

No, don't do that. Because then we needed to bring Shu back for the sequel that we never got too. Sucks.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Well, anyway, so that happened. And then that leads to another category that we never get to give out that often, named after Elizabeth Shue.

[Bill Simmons]

Elizabeth Shoe.

[Kyle Brandt]

The Elizabeth Shoe is an Oxford electrochemist Award for most ridiculous casting. Emma Russell. She's hot. She has a heart problem.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Kyle Brandt]

And she's making big strides in cold fusion. I wrote down I love when hot single woman with unbelievable jobs can't resist a movie hero who's obviously horrible for them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's works every time. I'm always in.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great, great little thing that happens. And you and I, we've been on this a lot lately because you and I in cr we did Nicole Kidman in Days of Thunder as a brain surgeon. We obviously had Roadhouse. And Kelly lynch is like the 10. She's the local surgeon just stapling up guys from the Double Deuce and Jasper. And it's the Kelly lynch scale. Not to say that incredibly beautiful women couldn't have positions like this, but the it's a very small percentage. I also don't think the male neurosurgeon is going to be like Legends of the Fall. Brad Pitt. Like that's not going to happen either. Right. You're not going to look like that.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, there was the Peacemaker. Had one of these too. I think Nicole Kidman might have been in two movies where she had crazy jobs.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she and Clooney both together just sultry on the screen. But they're trying to disable nukes in the middle of New York City.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love it. It's so rare that we get to give out the award for the actual movie we're doing. We're take one more break and then we'll do what's the best. All right, what's age the best. I'll start us off with crazy wild wild west, 1990s Russia and then post USSR Russian villains. Hollywood's just trying to feel its way out here in the mid-90s. And they eventually settle on. Let's get a guy who looks like the Taken, the eventual Taken to bad guy. Big beard, kind of handsome, charismatic. And he's going to have an evil son with a cane. Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

I love it. The second I see that guy, whatever his name is. We'll get to it later. He makes me happy. He also shows up and Eyes Wide Shut with Tom Cruise. He runs the costume store.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great car.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the guy who always runs it. I have one. I always like when there's any kind of laser force field you have to navigate to get through to steal something.

[Kyle Brandt]

Me too. With the red lights and you're like, oh, my God, how do you do that so many red lines.

[Bill Simmons]

And he has that cool suit that puts his like his body temperature to the like that shit always works. I also like when someone says kill him but bring her back alive. That sets up a great dynamic. And there's always a follow up line where someone's like, he said alive, you idiots. Watch where you're shooting. That always happens. It's so fun.

[Kyle Brandt]

I do love that too. Using Catholic saints as aliases.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great work. They have a Ku Klux Klan nights.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

What was that moment out of nowhere? It's so weird. I kind of like it. I were like, hey, are these guys evil enough? Well, when we do the reshoots, can you just do a quick scene? Just work the Ku Klux Klan in there. Why? Just do it. Don't ask, just put it in. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I rewound. I was like, what is that? A clan poster? What is that doing here? No idea. Not a clue. But I guess that's just makes them evil or something. Don't know.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have watching someone put on cool disguises. I just enjoy Russian Bad Guy Cruz. Love it. Opening credits produced by Robert Evans.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah baby, here we go. You see Elizabeth shoes?

[Kyle Brandt]

She had the kind of lips that wouldn't quit. Apparently he was trying to develop this for years and when they finally ended up making it, he wasn't involved at all. They paid him off to go away, but he got to keep his credit.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh well.

[Kyle Brandt]

Bob Evans. Bad guys with a prop. We mentioned bad guys. Cold fusion. Just I think it had a moment, which we'll get to later. And then runs to an embassy I think is my favorite wood stage the best when the embassy is right there and it's like 75 yards. Just somebody sprinting to the embassy. Like what other aspects of life are like that where you have 75 yards to get there. If you don't get there, you're basically getting killed. But not really. You're just getting captured.

[Bill Simmons]

I had this under unanswerable bill. Is this the way it works? If I'm in some place with conflict, can I just sprint to the US Embassy and start screaming I'm an American, I'm an American. And then it becomes this game of Red Rover and you have to like run through them. Do they? Because if I'm screaming I'm an American, I feel like they would gun me down or something. That's alarming. I can't work that way. Right.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm an American. Just seems to work. It just seems to be the secret key to getting into the embassy.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they know you're American? Like, do you have a Springsteen T shirt on or something? Like how?

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't know. Yeah. Why couldn't a Russian pretend they were American and get into the embassy and then start, you know, they're Russians.

[Bill Simmons]

They can't hide that shit, you know? There's not a chance they're trained to.

[Kyle Brandt]

Spot those guys anymore. What's age the best? Because I want to get to the Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and Drink.

[Bill Simmons]

No, do it. Do it. We covered it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Simon breaking the wine bottle and then blading San Martino style. That would be my pick. But I do want to shout out the uneaten. Spaghetti and meatballs in Russia. Why is that your order in Russia?

[Bill Simmons]

Is that in Russia or is it in England? I lose track of England.

[Kyle Brandt]

Where? Whatever. Wherever she was, it was not a spaghetti and meatballs area or she was in England, I guess.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Dr. Emma eats her feelings a little bit. She's. She's very lonely. And she goes to that restaurant, it's right down the block from her apartment. That's like. She's like, oh, Emma, you want the regular spaghetti and meatballs again? Yes, please.

[Kyle Brandt]

Is it like shepherd's pie or something? Or fish and chips? Yeah, fish. Like you're in England, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

I know you're a kind of wine guy adjacent, like I am. Yeah, it's the Latour 1957. And apparently all the wine snobs online. Did you see this? They. They say that it stops being. It was last drinkable in the mid-80s. So him ordering it in 1996 is like. You're a decade late. So they're odd on this movie. Loses all credibility. I don't give a shit about it.

[Kyle Brandt]

But, you know, that's the kind of thing my mom would have picked up. I should probably should have made her watch it. So that's my bad. We should have had that earlier. The Den of Thieves, Benihan Award. Seen the location. I still think it's that river. Unless you have somewhere else.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Unless it's the rat race coke den with the prostitutes, the mariachi band.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, good, There's. Yeah, one of those two.

[Bill Simmons]

Lot of great scenes in this movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

Kid Cudi Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. It's either the Pumpkin Song or sneaker pimps 6 underground. I like how they weave in the sneaker pimps, so I'd probably personally vote for that.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a little more subtle than Kilmer blasting out his Bose Speakers and his Volvo with his pumpkins. So sneaker pimps is cool. Six Underground. Take me down. It's awesome. Great song.

[Kyle Brandt]

The funny thing about him. Yeah, totally. Him blasting pumpkins. Billy Corgan and Val Kilmer together probably would have lasted about four minutes before one of them offended the other two of the. All time. Be careful around those guys. Guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I wouldn't go there. And it's. It's not even like a cool pumpkin song, like something of Gish or Disarm. It's a Cars cover I never heard of.

[Kyle Brandt]

Since then, the Chess, Rockwell and Brocklanders award for best character name. I mean, Simon Templar is pretty good, but I really enjoy Ivan Tretiak. I don't know. That guy could be. He could be a Russian mob boss. He could be the best goalie in the NHL right now. He could be the person who overthrows the government. He's like every. He could be a wrestler. What's. What can't Ivan Tretiak do?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he might be an MMA as well.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right? He's fighting Pereira next week.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's like he didn't want to fight with Ivan Tretiak because he's a ground game guy, but he's going to do it anyway.

[Bill Simmons]

Tretiak, ground and pound is lethal. And Joe Rogan's just talking about stand up. He's a little vulnerable, but you get him down, it could be anything. He could definitely be standing on his head. Winning the Con Smythe for the Buffalo Sabres, too. Like, it's. That's a great, great name.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. Butch's Girlfriend Award. Weak link of the film. What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

We've hit a lot of them already. It has major third act problems, as we know. But I just. When he's not in costume, Simon's not great. He's not terribly charismatic. He's underplaying it. He's doing this puppy dog love thing. I don't love when Kilmer is just being Kilmer in this movie. I like him when he's dressed up.

[Kyle Brandt]

Is it better if he's just doing Tom Kazanski the whole time?

[Bill Simmons]

The whole time.

[Kyle Brandt]

Like arrogant. Like just super arrogant spy guy with, like, frosted hair. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like, you stole my cold fusion. Like, what's your problem? And he goes, you're everyone's problem. I don't like cold fusion. Cause it's dangerous. It's unsafe. That's what I want. The whole fucking with aviators too.

[Kyle Brandt]

I agree. I had a weak link in this similar, Similar area. Val Kilmer, master Of disguise in this movie. Yeah, you can recognize him every time. There's that one disguise where you're like, that's not Simon Templar.

[Bill Simmons]

And those British police, they're like, same build as our suspects.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, it's like, no, he's definitely. There's like. There's a couple that are just basically like his hair is longer or shorter. What's age the worst? Do you need the first seven minutes in the orphanage for the back setup of.

[Bill Simmons]

If you haven't watched this movie in a while, you might have forgotten the first seven minutes in which a kid gets caned by a priest and then two 10 year olds kiss and one falls to her death. I don't want to see dead kids in the first five minutes of my Val Kilmer movie. What is that?

[Kyle Brandt]

A dog pushes and it's like. Okay, if you want to give them the superhero origin backstory, I just need more information then. So this girl fell to her death and this is why you became a thief?

[Bill Simmons]

I think so. And listen, when Michael Keaton does Batman and they kill his parents, it's not the opening scene of the movie. First he's gonna kick a little ass as Batman. Like, I don't want the dead kid to start the movie.

[Kyle Brandt]

That sucks. This is definitely a start. The movie seven minutes in on. It's on a bunch of places like Paramount, all over the place. But I would start at 7 minutes in the Internet in 97 we mentioned as an age of worst. Philip Noyce said afterwards that he made a mistake casting Val Kilmer and that he should have chosen Russell Crowe instead. And I just want to tell him the fuck off he chose correctly. Maybe direct a better movie. Maybe this is why your career hasn't gone that great the last 28 years. Maybe look in the mirror a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Noyce, who sounds like a Key and Peele sketch, he is just coming off working with Harrison Ford for two straight movies. And maybe he liked that experience a little bit better. Now listen, Bill, let's not pretend that the idea of like a young badass like LA Confidential air Russell Crowe wouldn't have killed it as the same. Let's not pretend. No. No disrespect to Val. We're here for Val. But would have been pretty cool.

[Kyle Brandt]

How about this? I love both.

[Bill Simmons]

You're standing for Val. You're right, it's Val. We love both.

[Kyle Brandt]

Listen, we've done proof of life on the rewatchables like that. If you want to know how to feel about Russell Crowe, you just go there. That was one of the four most stunning movies we've done. I love Russell Crowe. He would have been great in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

But I also think it's an important Val movie because all the reasons we talked about at the top. It's such a weird movie. Like if Russell Crowe's in it, it actually has a chance to be a better movie that's probably not as memorable.

[Bill Simmons]

I know it's bad form after it's not looked down. Great to blame Val. I mean, you tell me is this. This is JJ Redick not losing in the playoffs and being blaming LeBron. Like, isn't that like. It's the coach blaming the player.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's not like it's. And then we mentioned this earlier. But Kilmer constantly pressing for more disguises. But Paramount was nudging him off because they really liked that gimmick for Mission Impossible. And I don't know. Hurts my feelings any other. What's age the best? Because we'll move on.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst? The stunts aren't up to par in 2025. The stuff they do in this movie Cruise does is in his personal life for free. It's just we've seen so much since then. It's. It hasn't aged great.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great point. Ruff. Ohana Rubin Partridge. Overacting word. I could honestly couldn't find anything. I think there's been. There was some underacting.

[Bill Simmons]

The underacting award would be interesting. The Val Kilmer is the same underacting award. It's. I'm a reach like Kilmer after he comes out of the freezing water is really going for it. But he should be going for it. He's freezing to death. I again, Elizabeth Shu, who is probably 35 years old and acts like she's never had sex before or kissed the boy in her life in her bathroom fixing her hair and saying this is happening. This is happening. Take it easy. You've been down the.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's good.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a little much.

[Kyle Brandt]

The. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. I already gave mine. So if you don't have one, we can move on. Or do you have one?

[Bill Simmons]

I have a hottest take.

[Kyle Brandt]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I was going to go Val, but I just. All roads lead the shoe for me. That shoe always fits. I think Elizabeth Shoe is the greatest movie kisser of all time. I think she's the goat. She is going for it in this movie. Every time she and Val kiss, it's intense. It's kind of an open mouth. And then I had the pleasure of going down a YouTube wormhole and just going. Every time she cocktail, she and Cruz in the water and Cruise is real weird, but, like, there's, like, full tongue and everything. It's hell.

[Kyle Brandt]

Cruise, like, felt like he got a boner under the water there. They really kind of going at it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And if you look at her and LaRusso outside the arcade, they're, like, really young and it looks like it, but big time. Like, no little tight lip thing. I even watched Leaving Las Vegas in which she's kissing someone, drinking himself to death, and it's still gorgeous. I think she.

[Kyle Brandt]

Wow, you really did some scouting for this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And it was just. Just Elizabeth Shue kissing my computer was like, wow, this stuff's light for you. This is great. I can handle. This is PG rated. And I think she is the greatest kisser of all time. She goes for it so much in this.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great one. Casting what ifs? We'll go through this quick. Mid 80s. Pierce Brosnan allegedly attached. Didn't work out. 94. We have Robert Evans, Steve Zalian writing, Sidney Pollack directing. Ralph Fiennes offered a million dollars to be in it and pass Schindler. Yeah. And Ralph Fiennes. Actually, I have it because it was in. I went and found the piece where he kind of shit on it. He said, this is in A Premier magazine, 1994.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's red hot. Quiz show's coming out.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

He's in demand. It's like, yeah, I turned down the Saint quote. We've all seen the sort of sophisticated, smooth tuxedo gent working his way from gambling tables to sports cars to helicopters to beautiful women in bank vaults and villains with funny voices and mustaches and mountaintops in grease or whatever says fines. I just think it's been done. It's boring. How about this? Fuck you, Ralph Fiennes. Double fuck you in this episode right there, buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Gene Siskel and Philip Noyce.

[Kyle Brandt]

Triple, triple, crowd of fuck yous. Why are you shitting on things that I like in movies? Who. Who invited you to the party?

[Bill Simmons]

Just pass and say it wasn't for me. That's all you need to say.

[Kyle Brandt]

Sorry. Sorry. Your little fucking snooty career you didn't want to like. You jump from a helicopter to a casino table with beautiful women and villains with a bad mustache. Sorry, buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus, Cold fusion. That. That's your business. But somebody else can play the role.

[Kyle Brandt]

What a jerk. I'm glad he didn't win the Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he didn't he lost. Did you see Bill, like in the recastables or the. The. Did you see Schwarzenegger's name? Was that.

[Kyle Brandt]

I didn't believe it. So here's. Here's who I believe. So they definitely. Noyce had Mel Gibson. That was for real. And they developed it for a couple months. And Mel Gibson decided he had just spent a bunch of time away from home for Braveheart, didn't want to do it. Pass. Hugh Grant meets with Noyce. Didn't like the director's approach, Passes. And then after that it's like Kenneth Branagh, Schwarzenegger, all these. I just don't know what. I don't believe any.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't believe in all this cold fusing mumbo jumbo, do you?

[Kyle Brandt]

We gotta save the cold fusion. I just don't see it.

[Bill Simmons]

South African accent. He can't even do an American accent. He's been here 50 years. What is he doing?

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't see it. Val Kilmer then turned down Batman and Robin, made it easy for everybody. Best that guy. Word. Take it to Guy. We mentioned. I've never seen Ilya again. So he's thin, but in the crew face, scars. Guy, who's been in a couple other movies, who has the big scars on his cheeks. And I swear I don't even know where he's from, but I swear I've seen him in other stuff and he jumped out to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay? He's in a lot of stuff. That's our guy, Tommy Flanagan. He's in Braveheart. He's in the game. He's around and he's in. And his character in this movie, it's ridiculous. Character's name Scarface, which is so on the fucking nose, it's like. I don't even know why they called him that. But, you know, I'm sensitive now with the. That guy. Ever since Craig got all sensitive and became.

[Kyle Brandt]

I know he's in our heads.

[Bill Simmons]

I know Tommy Flanagan's name. It's like the Bob Balaban role. So I don't know if that counts. I know Tommy. I mean, I know his name.

[Kyle Brandt]

It might be Ilya, because I don't know if I ever saw him again, but I would have immediately said Ilya.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to know something cool about Ilya? His. His real name. His first name is Valerie. V I E L E R Y and he goes by Val. So he was two Vals on the same fucking set chasing weird. Yeah. You don't see it.

[Kyle Brandt]

Dion Waiters Award. Emily Mortimer plays the stewardess oh, yeah. And she's just a minute and a half in. And they had been together in the Ghost in Darkness, and I think she liked Val. So this is the case of, like, Val Kilmer. Obviously not a bad guy. Some people liked working with him. She came in and flirts with him for 90 seconds and is out. So who did you have for this?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought you were going to say Emily Mortimer did not enjoy working with you. You know what? Fuck you, Emily Mortimer.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, no, she doesn't get it. We're out of fuck yous. We've already handed three fuck yous out. Ray fights with the big one out of nowhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Beating in this one.

[Kyle Brandt]

Jesus. Who asked you? Beautiful woman, bank vaults, villains with funny voices of mustaches and mountaintops in Greece or whatever. Or whatever, yeah. Oh, that sounds great, you dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Or whatever is so snooty. Get out of here. Get out of here.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, go make your little Vatican movie. Little big twist at the end. Good luck. All right, next one is the recast the couch director city. What do you have for this?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, we can't change the city. It's post Cold War Russia. Looks fucking amazing. I watched the movie. I'm like, are they really there?

[Kyle Brandt]

They are really there.

[Bill Simmons]

It's incredible.

[Kyle Brandt]

So you have nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

I wouldn't change the city.

[Kyle Brandt]

How about actor, director? I have director. I've done so. Because he can fuck off.

[Bill Simmons]

He's in the fuck you line with Gene Siskel.

[Kyle Brandt]

How about young Fincher? Let's bring him in.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm always up for Fincher.

[Kyle Brandt]

Don't do the game. Do this instead. Then do the game after.

[Bill Simmons]

This would have been right after seven.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think, but maybe he could have snuck out the Saint before the game. Like right in between.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, because Kilmer and Douglas are friends from the lion movie, they would pass it along. There's a synergy there. I. Listen, I would take Fincher. I'll always go with the Val Kilmer, Tony Scott. Like, it's sitting right there. I mean.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, Tony Scott. That's a great 1,000 guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that's like those guys.

[Kyle Brandt]

What do you have for Flex category?

[Bill Simmons]

I have. Oh, I had a couple of them. I was going to do the porn parody, but that's too easy. It's just called the Taint. And then I was going to do.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I'm going to do Bill. I'm going to. I'm going to do the Dan Campbell, holy shit, they're really going for it award.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And that goes to. Oh, my God. Elizabeth Shue is actually going to strip down and press her body against freezing Val Kilmer in the black bra. We rewound that scene so much. It was in the 90s. Rewind hall of Fame. It's sexy as hell. I love that scene. And it kicks it up a notch because up to that point, Elizabeth shoes the girl with the diorama and the spaghetti. Now she's like, all right, I got to. I got to become a woman right now. It's awesome.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great. One half ass Internet research. Voice of the radio announcer at the end of the movie is Roger Moore.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Who knows if this is true, but this was in some of the stuff written. While filming the sane in 97, the crew was allegedly instructed to avoid making eye contact with Val Kilmer entirely. I never believed this. Anytime I see this in the research, I automatically don't think it's true. This is why it's half assed. I'm just trying to think of, like, imagine, like, you're doing Good Morning Football, or like, let's say you're doing the Sunday Eisen show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

And they're like, hey, we had talked to the crew. Eisen doesn't want anyone making eye contact with him when he's coming through the hallways. You just got to look down, like, that's insane. Anyone who's actually been in a set or a crew, anything like that, and the amount of people you have to pass by constantly, how do you tell them to look down when they see the star? I've never believed this.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you're about to believe because your instincts were just off. It's not Rich Eisen, but I'm breaking some news here. The reason Peter Schrager left Good Morning Football had a high contact rule on set, and eventually it rubbed the crew wrong, and they kind of turned against. And they said, it's him or me. And then so he went to espn, where I don't know if he has the same rule there, but, Peter, I'm sorry to break this, but you know it's true as well. No eye contact with the Shrigs.

[Kyle Brandt]

Fuck. I had always heard rumors about that, but I can confirm that's a bummer.

[Bill Simmons]

Our relationship is over. I'm just going to burn it down now. It's over.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't care.

[Bill Simmons]

Screw it. Peter. Sorry, bud. You got stuff on me, too. Air it out. No eye contact for Peter. Espn, you hear me back. Don't do it.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's a great feud. Make people take sides.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought, Peter, I thought, bill, you're going to show up for this pod wearing a Team Shriggs T shirt. I'm so relieved that you didn't. I thought for sure you were.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, I have complicated feelings about it.

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Kyle Brandt]

As you know, because it's ESPN. The alleged worldwide leader. A May 96Entertainment Weekly set report cited Val as being volatile on set, missing call times and putting out a lit cigarette in a crew member's face. Elizabeth Michoud. Producer Mace Newfield denied the misconduct, praised his professionalism, dedication and pointed out how he eventually worked seven days a week during the reshoots, which were three months for the movie's release. We'll never know what actually happened.

[Bill Simmons]

He put out the cigarette on the crew members.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm gonna say that. I'm gonna say that. Rig some.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like Red Foot flicking the cigarette in McManus's face. And usual suspects, like, you don't do that. If you do that, like, someone gets killed. You can't do that. Come on.

[Kyle Brandt]

We'll take one more break and we're gonna do Apex Mountain. Apex Mountain. Kilmer. No, right? It's a no.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's. I think it's 95 when he does Batman and Heat.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think Batman's his apex when he's doing this.

[Bill Simmons]

His reputation is in the gutter and people don't want to work with him. It's the year before this, I think.

[Kyle Brandt]

Two years before Elizabeth Shue won an Oscar. So this can't be it. Disguise movies. Probably not, because Mission Impossible Mark I corrected it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Post USSR Moscow movies. I need to see a complete list.

[Bill Simmons]

Did Bourne ever go to Moscow? I feel like he went everywhere. Yeah, probably. It's up there. It's cool.

[Kyle Brandt]

The electronic music scene in the 90s, I'm gonna say this is right around the apex. This was the one that really. And especially Orbital. I had sneaker pimps. Definitely. Moby's really feeling it right around now. All these people. It's all happening for the whole scene.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's big because the Trediac's guys, like, his goons are driving around blasting the electronic movie in their cars while they're looking for somebody. Like, when you're looking for somebody, you turn the volume down when you get there. Like, I can't even make it through a Trader Joe's parking lot with music on. And they're, like, zipping around looking. It's. It's cool, it's energetic.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have one more. Apex Mountain. So if you have any. Rip them off.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no. Give me what you got. I Feel like you're about to crow. Hop into this one.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. This is going to hurt.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no. What do you got?

[Kyle Brandt]

Cold fusion. I think this was Apex Mountain. And here's why I did some research. And here's what the research basically came with. This is where it came out.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Kyle Brandt]

This is from Wikipedia.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

There is currently no accepted theoretical model that would allow cold fusion to occur. It's the entire premise of this movie, including the ending. And apparently it's just not a thing that can actually happen.

[Bill Simmons]

So I have this. It's impossible. And because it's the opposite of hot fusion, you just do it at room temperature. I always look at cold fusion, Bill. Like people look at hoverboards. Like, when are we gonna have that shit? When are the flying cars? And where is free, clean energy for the entire world? That movie has been out for 30 years or something. There's still no cold fusion. I guess it never will be.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's not happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

Cruz or Hanks? Obviously Cruz. And it kind of hurts to give this one to Cruz to begin with because he market corrected the saint. Scorsese or Spielberg?

[Bill Simmons]

I have Scorsese because part of Kilmer's story, when he was young, he would make audition videos for himself and he made an entire short movie of him as Henry Hill that he got to Martin Scorsese because he wanted to play Henry Hill. And this is after he gave one to Kubrick to play Joker in Full Metal Jacket and also didn't get it. I think he was, like, completely obsessed with Scorsese and I would love to see him do it. We'd have to do it probably in Rome instead of Moscow or maybe Milan or something. But I think it works.

[Kyle Brandt]

I think with all the reshoots and rewrites, probably moving some stuff to Rome would have been pretty easy. The Oxford cold fusion specialist is just now in Rome.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We'd have to upgrade Emma's pasta and meatballs, too, to something that, like, then.

[Kyle Brandt]

The pasta meatballs make sense. Yeah. Now we're doing chicken parm. And there's, like, some.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Kyle Brandt]

Aaron Cheney on the side. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Yeah, the cold fusion specialist was where I landed. The guy who has 12 hours to basically make it work. That guy with the glasses, he's wearing a Scotty J T shirt that's too tight.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the problem with this category. For some reason, I just think of Scotty J or I think of what's our guy's name? And a talented Mr. Ripley.

[Kyle Brandt]

Freddie.

[Bill Simmons]

I always try to put those two guys in. And those guys are so weird. Listen, my answer to this is I want to see him play the fucking saint. I want to see him do all those parts.

[Kyle Brandt]

Oh, wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's really let Phil Seymour Hoffman cook and be the Russian guy and the artist. Like that's the artist part. That's what I want.

[Kyle Brandt]

Picking it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

A cold fusion scientist is going to tell some random handsome guy with a bad accent that she met three minutes ago that she's figured out everything. With the future of the world at stake, she's just volunteering this.

[Bill Simmons]

And she's also gonna write it on some fucking post it notes and put it in her bra. What are we doing? It's the secret of the world. Everyone's looking for it. Why don't you just put it in a. Save for a computer, anything. It doesn't make sense.

[Kyle Brandt]

I have a bunch. So what, you rip off yours and.

[Bill Simmons]

Then I'll go, all right, I have a couple. Doesn't his wig come off during sex? They derobe and they go at it and he's got a wig on and it doesn't even become a skew or anything. It just tells me that maybe the sex was kind of tame. And the vibe I'm getting from Emma might indicate that.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then I have a similar one right after she's lying on him for like, however long to warm him up. Is it possible he can get up and run away from the Russians with a massive erection? He definitely has. There's no fucking way. He's running up and down stairs like that. Immediately after that, it always struck me as like, God, that's so hot. I don't think he'd be able to run afterwards. I think he's fully aroused.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah. He probably has some weird saint thing that he can like put something like a little like Saint tack, just push it against and the boner goes right.

[Bill Simmons]

Down, like a reverse Viagra. So those picnics with me and then the only other one I have is like, she's sitting there with those British detectives or whoever they are, and she starts listing saints and she's like, isn't it obvious? It's all saints names. Are there any? It's like you caught that that fast. That felt like the tone loke this slick thing is no joke. Moment from Heat where like the whole movie turns on that. It's a little much.

[Kyle Brandt]

I had that as well. I. First of all, if he's like this amazing state of the art spy, you, you probably don't want to leave A calling card of just saints. Anybody can crack that. One in five names. Simon recovers from hypothermia in about 12 minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, really fast. That's the power of Shu, man. Incredible.

[Kyle Brandt]

Pretty sure you're in the hospital overnight and they're feeding you intravenously and trying to bring your body temperature back up. He's fine. Clothes are still wet. Doesn't matter. Yeah, he waltzes into the Russian president's office at one point and is like, I'm an American. And the guy's like, I just believe this guy right away. Even though he somehow got in here. Nothing. Not afraid. It's very strange. Not enough disguises that we had mentioned before. How does he keep changing this many disguises when he's on the run all the time? And where does he keep them? What's in that backpack? Yeah, I thought the same thing. Wigs, mustaches, hair pieces. Everything is like, state of the art, perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

Just the last kiss that he has before she goes into the huge auditorium. He shows up two minutes later in the full Ernie McCracken wig, glasses and teeth and everything in a completely different outfit.

[Kyle Brandt]

Just perfect. Like, does that in a men's room.

[Bill Simmons]

Or like a phone booth or anything. He just gets nothing.

[Kyle Brandt]

Got damaged during any of their. He's in cold water at one point. And then this is my big one. So Emma has a heart condition. We've established this right away.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

This is a big thing. It's the first thing we see is she's grabbing for pills. She's running around the last half of this movie like she's fucking Jackie Joyner Kersey. She that those heart pills are gone. The heart condition has been soft. She's just flying around. She's. She's Zola Bud, just sprinting.

[Bill Simmons]

She. When she gets to the embassy, she turns into DK Metcalf running down Buddha Baker, and it's like, Jesus, Dr. Emma, you're in the wrong field.

[Kyle Brandt]

That's fucked up. Ridiculous. Sequel, prequel, Prestige tv, all black cast are untouchable. We covered this. Definitely a sequel. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm. What do you got?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it is still the NCAA tournament going on, so I would like to hear Gus Johnson calling Elizabeth Shue warming up the saint with her body heat. And I think it would sound like this Simon Templar young fella, Ha ha. Freezing his ass off in The Russian slums.

[Kyle Brandt]

No shot clock.

[Bill Simmons]

Dr. Russell strips down going tit for tit for 98.6 hot fusion. Yes, sir.

[Kyle Brandt]

Woo.

[Bill Simmons]

Gus, I love you. I don't know how you do it.

[Kyle Brandt]

I love it. I gotta add Gus to the main thing. You've done it now three times. We love Gus the best.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Gus. Love you, Gus.

[Kyle Brandt]

I was going to do Is this movie better with Peter Schrager fake laughing to a Mike Greenberg jets joke in mid October. But I need to workshop it. I need like another month.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, well, I have not seen that happening. Because I'd be like that guy in the reality show who's watching his girlfriend have sex with a new guy. I can't watch Peter Schrager on Get up on Yes. I can't do it. So I've heard it's happened and I'm glad it's happened. I'm very happy for Peter, but we had a nine year marriage. I can't see him with his rebound relationship or his new marriage. I just can't do it. Peter can't do it. I love you, bud. I'll tune in eventually. I just need an adjustment period.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's going to be wild for me. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? So probably the theme song. Do do do do do do that like the score. Listen, don't.

[Bill Simmons]

I laugh out loud when he drives past the British cops at the end, he honks the horn of this fucking Volvo and it goes, yeah, like it's Dukes of Hazard or something. Why does he have the signature Honk D?

[Kyle Brandt]

Probably in answer more questions for me. Ties into the Zawantna Award for what happened the next day.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, sure.

[Kyle Brandt]

How long are these two lasting? Yeah, she's just solved killed Fusion. He's a fucking really weird guy with clear damage from an orphanage, who likes to wear disguises, who doesn't seem to have any sort of loyalty to anything. And now they're just in a cottage together and it's like, hey, should we adopt a dog? Have my eye on an Irish setter.

[Bill Simmons]

I've always wanted to start a winery. Should we do that together? No, I don't think so. I can't see them playing Scattergories like on game night, but I don't know if he's going to leave her. Isn't she the one who has all the power now and all the money? He's trying to get up to 50 million and she has like the trillion dollar idea. So maybe he's trying to stay with her because he's Driven by money as much as anybody.

[Kyle Brandt]

But she's never kissed another man before.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the problem.

[Kyle Brandt]

Find out in multiple scenes. So maybe she feels indebted to him.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember in, like, in Wedding Crashers, when Isla Fisher tells Vince Vaughn, like, that was her first time? I feel that that scene was missing from this movie. Like, I just want you to know that was my first time. Thomas.

[Kyle Brandt]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

What do me? Like, that was. I think. I think that was her first time.

[Kyle Brandt]

Unanswerables. We've covered everything. I don't have any other ones. Unless you have any.

[Bill Simmons]

I just had the question. Is Thomas's seduction of Emma illegal or immoral? Where, like, he goes, finds out everything about her, completely seduces her based on, like, information from breaking and entering her apartment. It's probably not, not, not ideal. But they did it in 1997 and nobody batted an eye. And then we already covered running into an embassy and saying, you're American.

[Kyle Brandt]

So I actually do have one. I look at my document correctly, Cold fusion saves Russia, keeps the President in charge.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Kyle Brandt]

What are the ramifications globally of a warmer Russia? Yeah, that's tough. Where are we now, all these years later? Does Putin even take over?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he takes over.

[Kyle Brandt]

Where are they? I think he grabs it anyway. Does he hoard the cold fusion for himself? Does Russia become more of a superpower? Like, are we speaking Russian right now? Is Ivan Drago. Does he win in Creed 2? It's just a lot of ram. Does Trump ever get elected? Like, we could just keep this. Peter Schrager ever end up on get up. Fake laughing at a Justin Fields joke in mid October. Like, what? What? What happens, Peter?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't see the joke. I'm sure it was a very funny Justin Fields joke. I'm sure you're killing it. I love you, bud. I don't like the idea of Russia getting, like, this free, unlimited energy, especially since Bill, that president is a beta. Like, that president is soft as hell. Like, he does not have the clutch gene. He's sitting there in his jammies while people are kicking his ass. He's going to be out in seconds, and some dictator is going to take over. And I don't know what the translation in Russian is for get up, but I think we would be saying it right now.

[Kyle Brandt]

Coming up next, can LeBron use cold fusion to play 82 games next year? We're going to find out with Monica McNutt.

[Bill Simmons]

Can Dak Prescott win Super Bowl? We talked to Peter Schrager. And get up. Love you.

[Kyle Brandt]

Great job over There. These jokes are all out of love. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? Obviously the cane would be just a huge win.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill, you love that cane.

[Kyle Brandt]

You're the only other person who would be excited I had it. But I also. The original Nokia phone I think would be pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna look on the online if I can see and get you that cane. Like an end of the year gift. Mine is always, if there is a film and we do a lot of them where there is a boot that has a hidden knife in it. I want that fucking boot. I want the boot. Whether it's from Roadhouse, whether it's from Cyborg, there's a knife and a boot. That is always gonna be my piece of memorabilia.

[Kyle Brandt]

You know, I didn't write this down and I should have and it would have been a great, probably unanswerable question. Cause I thought it when he did it and then I just forgot. I must have been distracted. Okay, how do you get the blade to come out of the boot? Is there. Is it like. Do you have to tap your heel a certain way? Is it like a little button attached to it? I've never understood how the bad guys can make the thing come out.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, well, do you have to tilt.

[Kyle Brandt]

Your foot to the right? Like, what do you have to do?

[Bill Simmons]

You couldn't because it would come out when you're just walking. Then the Roadhouse guy is so white trash that his blade is just out all the time.

[Kyle Brandt]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no retractable. But I think for. Probably for Simon, he has something digital like a remote in his wrist or something. But I don't know, you flick it out with your toe. I'd like to find boots with knives. Do they make them like for people self defense and things like that in bars? I don't know if that's an actual.

[Kyle Brandt]

His knife was even better. You could remove it out of the boot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're right. It was just stored in there. Yeah, I don't know.

[Kyle Brandt]

I had a lot of questions.

[Bill Simmons]

Same.

[Kyle Brandt]

Yeah, same. Maybe Nike will start making them.

[Bill Simmons]

Please.

[Kyle Brandt]

The Coach Finstock Award for best Life Lesson. I narrowed it down to either. If you have an idea that could save the world, don't put them in cocktail napkins in your bra. I think is a good life lesson. And then change up your aliases. Don't stick with the saint gimmick. Like, if I become a spy, I'm not just going to use Dream team basketball player names. It's like today I'm Karl Malone. Tomorrow, I'm Christian Laettner. Oh, we saw. There's a Kevin Love on a flight to Moscow. It's like, no, you're not gonna be able to solve my aliases. I'm just gonna use different aliens.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. It kind of looks like evil spy Bill Simmons. Nope. Says right here, Clyde Drexler. Let him pass. That's it. All right. They're tight.

[Kyle Brandt]

It's ridiculous. You're doing it that way. You kind of want to get caught. Like, what's the upside? The upside is you guys are so stupid. I was using Saint aliases the whole time, and you didn't figure it out. It's like this weird arrogance.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think you hit it right. It'd be like if you just did. You know, my secret thing is, I do Red Sox outfielders. They'll never find out. Like, yes, they will. There's only so many Catholic saints. It's not that many.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm using Get Up Partners of Peter Schrager.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you want to do a rewatchables of just tomorrow's episode of Get Up? I don't.

[Kyle Brandt]

We're just going to have to have him come on and do one with us. He's probably not allowed. Double feature choice. Mine's controversial, so you go first.

[Bill Simmons]

So is mine. All right. I think it's like, I'm bringing. We're bringing it full circle about Val Kilmer. Like, once I see this and I see him play these little characters and do these voices I'm putting on Tombstone, I just. I'm ready to play for blood. I'm Huckleberry. I'm fucking ready. In vino veritas. I'm gonna watch Tombstone.

[Kyle Brandt]

Mine is the island of Dr. Moreau.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Kyle Brandt]

No, it really is.

[Bill Simmons]

Make the case.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm the only person who likes this movie. I have nobody to do it on the rewatchables with. And the only reason I like it was because it was on that pay per view channel, and I had it on all the time. And I became fascinated by it. And just the concept of this island where they were basically mating humans and animals. And then these hybrid kind of creatures were on the island. But then Marlon Brando's there, and it's the end of his career. It's falling apart. He's just fat and crazy in every scene. And then Kilmer's in it with this look, like, what's wrong with my career? I think you might need to give it one more chance.

[Bill Simmons]

Even as someone who hasn't seen it. I know. There's one part of it that you're forgetting. Isn't it the world's smallest man? Isn't it like a very small human being? Is that the guy who became friends with Pedro Martinez? Is it the same guy?

[Kyle Brandt]

Not positive. Yeah. Or it's like his brother. Yeah. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

So I know he's in it, but I've never seen it. Gotta say, Bill, probably not gonna be seeing that movie at some point.

[Kyle Brandt]

I don't think I. I might have to solo that pod. I might just have to do it myself like I did with Castaway during COVID I might just have to do the self Dr. Moreau.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a better play.

[Kyle Brandt]

I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

Any free time I have. I'm trying to allocate to Jim Kata. I can't dedicate it to Dr. Moreau. I'm trying to put it all towards Jim Kata. That's for you too.

[Kyle Brandt]

Well, I was mailing you pictures of Billy Jacoby this week, trying to get you properly excited for that. We know that's coming down the road. We're definitely doing just one of the guys. This spring is happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, it was locked and then Val Kilmer passed away. Like it changed the whole schedule. I had takes already. I was ready. We'll get there.

[Kyle Brandt]

It'll happen. All right. Who won the movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Val Kilmer. Val Kilmer. The late. I hate saying this. The late, great Val Kilmer.

[Kyle Brandt]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

I miss you, Val.

[Kyle Brandt]

Thanks for doing this on short notice. Thanks to Jesse Lopez and Craig Horlbeck for producing. And don't forget, you can always watch these on video on the Spotify platform. And you can check out The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. So next time you're on. Probably just one of the guys something. We're going back to the 80s. We've done too many modern. We're not modern people. Let's go back to our favorite decade. Kyle Brandt, great to see you as always.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, man. You too.

[Kyle Brandt]

Thanks, man. It.