‘The Sting’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Summary

---

The Rewatchables: ‘The Sting’ (1973)

Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Chris Ryan (CR), Sean Fennessey
Date: September 30, 2025
Film Discussed: The Sting (dir. George Roy Hill, starring Paul Newman & Robert Redford)

---

Main Theme & Purpose

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey revisit and dissect The Sting (1973), the iconic con-man classic starring Robert Redford and Paul Newman, as the first installment of "Redford Month" on The Rewatchables. The conversation dives deep into the film’s legacy, genre influence, casting dynamics, production folklore, and place in movie history, all through their signature blend of trivia, personal anecdotes, and sharp wit.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Magic of the 'Get the Band Back Together' Casting

• The episode opens by reflecting on Redford and Newman, reunited here after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Such team-ups are noted as rare and nearly mythic.
  • Bill: "Has there ever been a more successful get the band back together non-sequel?" (02:03)
  • After running the table on other iconic duos, the guys agree it's more elusive in modern Hollywood—perhaps only rivaled by pairs like Will Ferrell/John C. Reilly, or Sandler/Barrymore.

2. Movie Star Dynamics: Newman vs. Redford

• Discussion on Newman’s enduring aura vs. Redford’s meteoric rise in the early ‘70s.
  • Bill (on Robert Shaw’s observation): "Everyone was just going nuts for Newman. And then they asked what about Redford? And he was like, nah, this is really Newman." (04:36)
• They riff on modern analogies: Clooney/Pitt, Chalamet/Leo, and how Hollywood no longer has these under-50 titans.

3. Defining & Ranking the 'Con Movie'

• The team debates whether The Sting is the genre’s ur-text—a benchmark for all subsequent con films.
  • Chris Ryan: "When [Redford] read the script, he was like, there has never been a movie in this world before." (08:43)
• They track the genre’s legacy: from Ocean’s 11 to Usual Suspects, Trading Places, Focus, and House of Games.

4. Why Is the Classic Con Movie Difficult Today?

• Technology has rendered "pure" cons harder to write (and believe).
  • Chris: "So much of, like, what we would consider conning or a con 30 or 40 years ago is now phishing emails..." (15:29)
• The broader point: movie audiences are savvier, and real-world scams are less cinematic and more insidious than the “fun” cons of The Sting.

5. Moral Codes of Con Men and the Performance of Lying

• The film’s romanticized confidence men are compared with today’s scams.
  • Chris: "A big part of being a good con man is never breaking, never reveal..." (18:25)
  • Discussion of “good” vs. “bad” lying and poker as the art of bluffing.

6. Breaking Down the Film: Structure and Scenes

• Triple Con Structure: The plot weaves three layers of deception—Hitwoman Seleno, Redford/Newman double cross, the faux Feds.
  • Bill: "The hardest thing to pull off with the audience is that I have to be surprised at the end..." (20:08)
• Multiple scenes are dissected:
  • Initial grifts (the pants switch)
  • The legendary poker scene on the train
  • The diner hitwoman twist
  • The intricate, nearly meta construction of the final con

7. Best Picture 1973: Did The Sting Deserve It?

• The team questions The Sting’s win over American Graffiti and The Exorcist.
  • Sean Fennessey: "The Exorcist not winning is a goddamn nightmare." (39:48)
  • They marvel at December 1973’s stacked theatrical releases.

8. Behind the Scenes: Power Moves and Production Anecdotes

• Redford’s Emergence as Hollywood Power Broker:
  • Controlled director/producer decisions, shaped careers, sometimes at the cost of writers/directors (26:00-28:15).
  • Julia Phillips’ stories: Constant lateness on set, Newman’s frustrations, prank battles (87:36-88:12, 79:30-80:24).

9. Supporting Cast and Oscars

• Homage to Robert Shaw's electric presence and the supporting bench (Eileen Brennan, Ray Walston, Charles Durning, etc.), the enduring cultural impact of Scott Joplin's "The Entertainer," and The Sting's seven Oscar wins.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Redford's Proto-Hollywood Influence (26:00):
  "Redford is in the running for maybe inventing [the modern movie star as producer]." — Bill

• On the genre’s legacy (12:07):
  "You don't get 'Usual Suspects' without this. You don't get the lingo." — Chris Ryan

• On modern scams (15:29):
  "So much of what we would consider conning or a con 30 or 40 years ago is now phishing emails... " — Chris Ryan

• On the iconic poker scene (24:45):
  "That nine minutes, he's just cooking. All-time cooking." — Bill Simmons (on Newman)

• On the necessity of re-watching (33:11):
  "If you forget a few plot moments, it’s more fun. This movie's best seen every 10 years." — Chris Ryan

• On the lack of today's ‘sexy cons’ (56:27):
  "Fixing races, counterfeit money, cheating at poker ... just seemed way easier to do once upon a time ..." — Bill Simmons

• On Star Power (89:07):
  "This would be a good championship belt to figure out ... Redford is now after The Sting first call for like, I would say three, four years." — Bill Simmons

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening: Physical media chat & Redford Month intro (00:00–01:00)
• Redford & Newman: Revisiting legendary pairings (01:53–04:36)
• Modern star comparisons/Why we lack new Newmans (05:25–07:04)
• Defining “con man” movies & The Sting’s genre impact (08:24–13:10)
• How con movies have changed (digital age & culture) (15:19–17:19)
• The ethics/performance of lying and cons (18:10–19:19)
• Film structure: Triple cons, Seleno, fake Feds, poker (20:00–21:41)
• Oscars, 1973: The Sting vs. Exorcist/American Graffiti (39:38–41:05)
• Behind the scenes: Redford’s power, production lore (26:00–28:41)
• Odes to supporting cast: Eileen Brennan, Shaw, etc. (37:38–38:07, 34:34–36:41)
• Rewatchable scenes: Pants switch, poker, diner twist (45:53–51:44)
• Modern analogues & what’s aged well or not (54:07–56:48)
• Closing categories & playful hypotheticals (70:37–80:24)
• Final verdicts: Who won the movie? Legacy? (105:41–106:05)
• Producer Craig reflects: why the movie holds up (109:37–111:41)

---

Categories Explored (Condensed Highlights)

• Most Rewatchable Scene:
  Poker game on the train ("All-time cooking" – Bill, 24:45), Seleno twist, initial pants switch.

• Best 1973 Thing About The Movie:
  Robert Shaw looking 20+ years older, payphones, nostalgia for “roaring” crimes.

• Best Con Movies: The Sting, Ocean's Eleven, Focus, Catch Me if You Can, Trading Places, House of Games, etc.

• Weak Link:
  Consensus: Pointless hitmen Colson/Sullivan subplot, and wish for a 1930s 'babe.'

• Best Supporting:
  Eileen Brennan, Dana Elcar (FBI agent), Jack Kehoe (Kid Twist), Lonigan’s silent henchman.

• Who Won the Movie?
  Split between Newman (for the iconic poker scene) and Redford (star power, career arc).
  But there’s a strong argument for director George Roy Hill as well.

---

Flow, Tone, and Atmosphere

The tone is irreverent and conversational with jokey asides, pop culture riffs, and deep trivia drops. Bill, Chris, and Sean balance fanboy love (for the stars, script, and vibes) with sharp criticism (on pacing, 1973’s Oscar choices, and genre limitations). Anecdotes about Hollywood, Newman's drinking, and Redford's set behavior abound.

---

Final Takeaways

• The Sting is held up as a model of star chemistry and genre-defining caper construction, full of sly period detail and a swindler’s sense of fun.
• Its legacy, both in con movie mechanics and the mythology of “movie star power,” is unassailable, even as contemporary tastes and technology have shifted the genre.
• While not as radical or “important” as its Best Picture competition (The Exorcist, American Graffiti), The Sting remains a crowd-pleasing, technically masterful rewatch staple.
• The hosts agree: watch every 10 years, forget some twists, and let yourself be taken all over again.

---

Additional Resources

• For a full transcript, see The Ringer’s archives or YouTube channel for this and other Rewatchables episodes.
• The Sting currently streaming and occasionally in theatrical re-release.

---

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

The rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. You can find the watch with CR still there. Wrote his first site. Can't believe you're the showrunner. A task you didn't tell us. Under the pseudonym Brad Inglesby.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Congratulations.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean. Fantasy Big Picture.

[Sean Fennessey]

Hi.

[Bill Simmons]

What was Physical media? Something. Council something.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, we had a high council meeting. Four guys. You're invited to the next one.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I just showed you.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Make it a big five.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a big stack now.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you boosting now?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Eh, well.

[Bill Simmons]

So keep it low. You don't like to brag about.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So C.R. came to the most recent episode. He's done one episode a year the last three years, and he walked away with like 40 blu rays.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How did that happen?

[Chris Ryan]

Because Tracy Letts has lots of doubles.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So he brought all of his doubles and gave them to Chris. So if you want to double your stack, think about it. 20, 26.

[Bill Simmons]

Double my stack. Speaking of doubling stack, we're doing this thing today because it's Redford month and we actually extended the month. It starts on September. We're doing five Redford movies in the rewatchables. Some that we were. That were always in the hopper to do anyway. But we had to start with this thing. An iconic movie that won best picture in 1973. We'll be back in a second. The Sting. 1973. Comes out on Christmas. I think my dad said he took me to the theater for this one.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

I was four. Not a lot of memories. Well, there are no babysitters. There were no rules in the 70s.

[Chris Ryan]

So you let Christmas.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to go see this thing. Let's take little Millie and hope he doesn't, like, fall over. And somebody's.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, my kid is 4, so I'm trying to imagine bringing her to see him. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Two plus hour con movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, that would be great for me.

[Sean Fennessey]

If I could do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't really have a lot of memories. It was a Robert Redford, Paul Newman, George Ray Hill reunion from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Has there ever been a more successful get the band back together non sequel?

[Sean Fennessey]

Ooh.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually did some homework on this, and I thought there'd be more examples than there were where it's like, those two guys. I love those two guys. Now they're in this.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really rare. It's rarer than you think.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's a classic bs. You didn't prep me for this one kind of question.

[Bill Simmons]

I should have prepped you like I fucking naming are going to try to do that right now with Rip. They did with the last duel, but.

[Chris Ryan]

With Air, it's not. It's not the same thing though. Right. Like, I. I feel like.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, you could say Dogma was a follow up to Goodwill hunting.

[Chris Ryan]

Dogma is the sting to Goodwill hunting.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Butch Cassidy for Ben and Matt.

[Bill Simmons]

I was worried CR was gonna go with, like, Peter north and Christy Canyon since they could be.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, they had a lot of.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, a lot of comebacks.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That was banger after banger.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So I did the research on this and you know, AI now with. With Googling stuff, they'll just serve you a lot of good stuff.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Are you going to.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you sponsored by Gemini or are you just turning yourself over to the machine?

[Bill Simmons]

No, but it was. There were some helpful things. So it used to happen all the time. It would happen with, like, Kern and Tracy. Like, we. This was how we did it forever. Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau, Carrie Grant, Ingrid Bergman.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Bogarten.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, like, really? This was the last one. And then it shifted to romcoms. It's like Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. They're back. And now it's you've Got Mail. Richard Gerel and Julie Roberts. They did Runaway, One Way Bride, I can't speak. And then Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore is probably our best. We got the band back together the last 30 years, which is both exciting and depressing.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, my. My kids know them as like a combo. I knew Newman and Redford. I always considered them like a combo. Just for these two movies.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'll tell you what it is. It's Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Talladega Knights and Step Brothers.

[Chris Ryan]

That's really good.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's probably the closest we have where, like, they hit on something in Talladega Nights. They were so good together. And they were like, we gotta follow up this energy as soon as we can. And within three years, you got it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Cause sometimes. Why do you think more actors aren't like, we were great together. Let's run that back. We say with sequels.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's because I think that they're supremely competitive people. And you can even see when you read about, like, the making of this movie is that even though Newman is in kind of, you're minted. You're in hall of Fame. You're going. You're going anywhere you want. He's still thinking like, I'm the star. I am the top billing. Like, how do I Relate to this kid trying to take my spot in a. In a way that I think probably more actors think about than they actually reveal.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert Shaw had a good quote about this because at that point Redford was a massive star. You know, when they did it Butch in 69, he was on the way up, 73, he's minted. He's one of the biggest stars in Hollywood. But Newman was still Newman. And Robert Shaw said when they were filming this and they're filming it in relatively public places like Chicago and la, he said everyone was just going nuts for Newman. And then they asked what about Redford? And he was like, nah, this is really Newman. I wrote they were just going right after. I can't do it.

[Chris Ryan]

C R Redford goes in the water. Sharks in the water.

[Bill Simmons]

But yeah, Newman had that special something. But it's funny because this is Redford's most charismatic movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

How do you. So how do you like. What's the comparison modern day to that right now?

[Bill Simmons]

Because isn't it Pitt and Clooney? Or would it be like Pitt and.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But that would be like if people were going crazy for Clooney, if Pitt was present, you know, because Newman is about 10 years older than him.

[Bill Simmons]

Because it needs to flip.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So you need. Who is the older star who's like, you know, less of a hunk like Paul Newman, one of the most beautiful guys ever, but still like Redford was the ideal for.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Brad Pitt and Leo and then Leo catches up.

[Chris Ryan]

But like the example, the most recent example that I can even think of would be Top Gun Maverick where it's like Tom Cruise with two younger actors who were probably in their dreams. Like if I could get a tenth.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Of that and he's got 20 plus years.

[Bill Simmons]

And those guys weren't, they weren't famous like Redford was for this second movie.

[Chris Ryan]

But I think in the conception of Top Gun Maverick, just like maybe in the conception of, of the Sting, like there was probably a little bit more real estate for the younger guys to take a. Put a flag down on. And then Tom Cruise is like actually this Tom Cruise movie.

[Bill Simmons]

So like, I mean that the, the bigger question is we just don't have movie stars like this in the same way anymore that are under 50 years old.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, in, in Dune part two, Timothy Chalamet and Austin Butler have like a showdown.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Like the conclusion of that movie is those two guys fighting. And it's a Dune movie. It's an ip, it's sci fi, It's a big event. Movie. But in that scene, I was like, these two guys should make a movie together that is not sci fi where they're not fighting. Like, they should actually be joining forces. But I think there's like, two bartenders.

[Bill Simmons]

In early 2000s New York, right after.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

9 11, who loved the Strokes Cocktail Legacy sequel. Not a bad idea.

[Chris Ryan]

Hot stealing prequel.

[Bill Simmons]

Eddie Greenwald and CR Coming in. They're like, yo, have you seen the.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. Who are they?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Reingold tonight, not the worst night.

[Bill Simmons]

Karen Ows it makes. We can meet her tonight. I don't understand.

[Chris Ryan]

Why is Hollywood failing? We made a movie for.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes fans.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the answer is actually, you stumbled on it with Chalamet. It's probably Chalamet and Leo. Even though the ages are a little.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Different, you know, like, Leo's 50 now.

[Bill Simmons]

But Leo was here and Chalamet was here. Now Chalamet is, like, very close.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And he is, of course, playing the Leo playbook. Like, he asked him for advice. Leo gave him the advice. No superhero shit, no drugs, drugs, all that stuff. You know, that was the advice that he gave him.

[Bill Simmons]

Did Chalamet actually say that on the record?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think he did. Right?

[Chris Ryan]

I think it was like, no drugs, no soup, no capes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't have something called the pussy posse. Maybe don't call it, like, anything like that, but do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Be like, my group of friends, you.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Know, me and my buddies.

[Bill Simmons]

Leo's like, there's these rich guys that will just fly you on their jets. Just make friends with as many of them as possible, and then you don't have to pay for anything. Jets and yachts.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's where this is, honestly, a really good idea.

[Bill Simmons]

They love Tom Brady's like, yeah, that's jets and yachts. Best con movies ever. I don't know if this is the best, but it has to be mentioned. It's almost like when we talk about best actresses ever. And it's like, you got to mention Meryl Streep.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Is it the first?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think it might be the first.

[Chris Ryan]

There are. I think that they're. Obviously, the con man is, like, a staple of crime literature and, like, fiction from before this. But, like, this is super. This has definitely popularized the con man as something in popular culture.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I watched an interview with Redford where he talked about the movie, and he said that when he read the script, he was like, there has never been a movie in this world before.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And that's unusual. It's really hard to tap into a new unseen space. And I love con man movies. I've talked about them over the years, how much I love them. House of Games, one of my favorite movies of all time. But I couldn't think of something specifically set amongst these kinds of guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Before this movie, you know who's in House of Games? I wanted to be a nurse. Who were these people?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Lindsey Krause.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't believe Lindsay Krause and Robert Shaw are like. We don't have to say what we're imitating.

[Bill Simmons]

Quietly. Unbelievable IMDb for her.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Oh yeah, she's amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

She's even around the President's Men.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, she is.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, he used to go out with the guy who had the. The list of creep people.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they kind of bully her into giving her the list. Are we Lindsay Krause Month?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

We're not re. Presidenting.

[Bill Simmons]

So I watched it this weekend and my wife was furious.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Why?

[Sean Fennessey]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

Because she's like, really? Again?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Did you know that they put it in theaters, that it's like in theaters this weekend and it was not related to Redford's passing. It was just that it was. I guess it's an anniversary. Is it the 50 year anniversary of the movie? Can't be. I don't. It's back in movie theaters.

[Bill Simmons]

In theaters. I think this weekend or by. By the time people hear this, maybe it won't be. That movie's still banging.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'm ready to be president.

[Bill Simmons]

Criterion, the channel, which you did something for with All Men. They're. They're really. They found their stride in 2025.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They had 70s, like thrillers, whatever. And they had like nine of them, including all the President's Men.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a pretty successful.

[Bill Simmons]

It looks good.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And there's always like one or two where I'm like, oh, I haven't heard.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's Jeff Bridges movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Jeff Bridges, 1979. I don't even know what that is.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's Winter Kills, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that about a president getting assassinated?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, it's like kind of a satire of those movies. It's not as like hardcore as the Parallax View or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Could we talk them into rewatchables? Movies we can't do because they don't exist.

[Sean Fennessey]

Month.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Like what?

[Bill Simmons]

Eddie and the Cruisers. The Sure Thing. Kiss of Death with Nic Cage. That's right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Because they're unavailable.

[Bill Simmons]

Reconcilable differences. Just unavailable.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Is Eddie and the Cruisers not on tubi?

[Bill Simmons]

It's not available.

[Chris Ryan]

It Played once on, like, Cinemax a couple months ago.

[Bill Simmons]

No, tcm.

[Chris Ryan]

Tcm or. Or actually amc, one of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I taped it and was just like, hey, Eddie and the Cruisers literally is broadcast once a year.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But you guys were responsible for getting Pump up the Volume back onto streaming after you did the episodes.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was on Criterion, too.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what. We're just trying to spread the word.

[Bill Simmons]

We've been complaining about Kiss of Death and some of these other ones for a while, but CR and I have Eddie and the Cruisers recorded on cable.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

But if we did rewatchables, nobody would be able to see it when House and Jacko were here. We're going to be Revenge of Nerds. It's not available, is it? Not nowhere.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I wonder if it's because some of the material in that has.

[Chris Ryan]

You think Revenge of the Nerds.

[Bill Simmons]

Anthony Edwards used. He's some of the. Use some of his, er movie. He's like, we're. We're getting rid of this movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Could be.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a goner. Best con movies. The sting, ocean's 11, focus, catch me if you can, Color Money, House of Games, Trading Places. I would start with those seven. There's a bunch more.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the Grifters and like, you keep going and going.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think that's in the vicinity and it usually involves a swerve. I think what's interesting with the Sting, it's telling you what, the chapters of now or the setup that, like, it's kind of walking through it the most fun way possible because they had these amazing cards. And it's one of many reasons why I won Best Picture. It's just really well put together.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Such a good lingo movie, you know, Incredible. Constantly dropping little vocabulary words that make you understand that what you're inside of and you can never like. I couldn't tell. I was like, is this based on something that is real? Were these real cons?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think a lot of this world, when Twist is putting together the team of con men, is actually drawn from, like, you know, books and stuff about that. But you don't get usual suspects without this. You know what I mean? You don't get, like, the lingo.

[Bill Simmons]

And so that's technically a con movie. So there's basically two versions of a con movie. I think Focus is the traditional con movie and then usual suspects. Ones that have a swerve.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, Right. Like a crime thriller that has a con at the root.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Spanish Prisoner, Mammoth's, like, really, really.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Really, really into this Adult.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So would you let me. Let me solo a CR For a second?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Go ahead, by all means.

[Bill Simmons]

I know you'll have some thoughts. Just let's. I'm gonna let CR cook. I'm gonna put something on the oven for cr.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I. I've spent so much time listening to just you guys talking about movies, I feel very comfortable in this space.

[Bill Simmons]

If you could write a heist movie or a con movie and it's like the one script you ever wrote, and it would actually get made and be really good, what's more appealing to you? Heist movie or con movie?

[Chris Ryan]

I think a heist movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'd say. I knew that was gonna be.

[Chris Ryan]

Honestly, I don't think I'm smart enough to write a con movie. Like, sometimes when I watch these especially.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not. You're not nefarious enough.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it's. It's just, like, I don't think that my brain works in five steps ahead. Logic, which. All of these movies essentially, like, they rely on one person knowing, like, all the different permutations of someone's reaction to a situation. And I think you can kind of undo the. The stitching on con movies pretty easily. But I. My brain doesn't work that way. My brain works like, we're not. We're not here for your money. We're here for the bank's money. Your money's in Shawn.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't try to be a hero. Shawn would be a con movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Undoubtedly, it would be.

[Bill Simmons]

And it would have multiple poker scenes.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, it's a nice little sprinkle on top that Games of chance are often a part of con men movies, But I also like. I like puzzles, and I like mazes, and I like magic. Like, those are things that I'm actually. That sounds maybe the dorkiest thing I've ever said, but I do like all three of those things sincerely. You know, I'm just a man who likes a puzzle.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this a resume to. To be in the Prestige rewatchables?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, I love the Prestige. That's, like, by far one of my favorite Nolan films. It's a good one. So. But those worlds are really fun, and con movies kind of bring in all of those worlds. Like, you get to sauce. I do. I do empathize, though, with what Chris is saying, which is you have to be extremely smart to be able to devise a good con, especially one that makes sense in a movie. Like, it's one thing to con a guy out of money in real life, and you can read some of the books that this movie is based on. But to actually make it a coherent, plotted narrative experience, I think is pretty challenging. It's why there's so few of these movies.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that the nature of our digital life experience now has pretty much killed the possibility of a con.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie because there's so much conning going on?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, because the second you get set up, you could just start a Reddit thread and be like, has anyone ever had somebody come up and ask them for nuclear secrets? Like, you know, like. And also so much of, like, what we would consider conning or a con 30 or 40 years ago is now phishing emails or your Amazon delivery just needs your Social Security number. Please call this. Like, well, what it was.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, obviously the origins of cons is in confidence and confidence men, but I would argue that it is now about conspiracy. Like, that's really more in the realm of what the cons you find are like, here's the Ethiopian prince who needs $10,000. Please wire him.

[Chris Ryan]

This guy had a compelling story.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it possible people are just smarter now, too?

[Chris Ryan]

It's hard to say that they are smarter right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, no, because you have the experience of decades and decades of hearing stories about, you know, that's why, like, the ballmer clippers thing is such a. I.

[Chris Ryan]

Think they have more access to information. They have more access to information than they've ever had. And I wouldn't necessarily say that makes people smarter.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think it's the same exact premise, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Savvier.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Like, confidence men lull people into a sense of security, and we are definitely in a time where we're, like, constantly being lulled into a false sense of security. And that's why people give their money away or fall prey to really influential people or whatever is happening right now. So I don't know. I feel like it's all kind of the same. Like, everybody's usually the same. They want to feel safe.

[Bill Simmons]

The bomber story. So we're taping this on the 22nd, so who knows if there's, like, big revelations next week, but the bomber story, if you feel like he actually didn't try to circumvent the calorie cap, it's basically a con story. Yeah, that's what Mark Cuban's been arguing. He's like, these guys were con artists. They defrauded all of these people. They did all this. We've seen, like, when. Like, what, the hock to a girl when she'd had her meme, she did her pull the rug move.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Those are basically these short cons. So the cons now are, are just kind of less fun and more aggressive versus like something like this where it's like we're into a conversation. I'm going to have 30 people in my fake racetrack parlor we're going to call fake game. Like, I don't know, it's just more fun back then.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think that the great thing about this sting is that it starts out as basically a pickpocket movie. It starts out, it's creative germ as David Ward. The guy wrote it, was researching pickpockets for a different screenplay. But Luther and Hooker's original kind of move is essentially a glorified pickpocket job. And then each step he takes, Gandorf kind of shows him. There's so many levels to this where you can have like a 20 guy team, you can have fake storefronts, you can have fake wiretaps. And that's just, that's what makes it so rewatchable, is to just go down the rabbit hole with those guys.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have a question for both of you guys about this. How comfortable are you lying to people's faces? Because like my wife says this is a likely story. She cannot lie. Like, when she lies, she's, she gives her. She has lots of tells.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say that's interesting.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, and the big part of being a good con man is never breaking, never reveal.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like there's. There's so many bad karma things that go with lying. That's like really aggressively lying. I am always in the back of my head thinking about that, but I would have a lot of trouble just lying.

[Chris Ryan]

There's two distinctions, though. Number one is like, there's the version of lying that you lie when you're like, what time did you get home last night? Or like, why is this broken? And you're like, I have no idea. You have definitely no.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Then there is the version of the line that these guys do, which is more like theater and also crucially, often directed at people who, quote, unquote, deserve it. Like, I never took them. You know, what's. Hooker is like all mad that he would be accused of taking up, like, taking off winos, Right. He's like, I've never robbed a wino. Like, I go after guys who deserve you.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the code of honor of con artists. Yeah. Why can you lie? Well, you like playing poker where all you do is lie and play.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I like that. I like the way that Chris framed it, which is like in the theater of I Think I feel comfortable in like the conversation about, like, who broke the toilet seat or whatever. Let's. You know, I'm not as comfortable with that.

[Bill Simmons]

Just wait till your kids get older. There's a lot of lies that happen.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel that already.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't leave the fridge open. It's like. You definitely did.

[Chris Ryan]

You're on camera, heard you at midnight.

[Bill Simmons]

Go downstairs and the fridge was open after you did it. No, I didn't. It's a lot of that.

[Chris Ryan]

I have no idea who ordered all these Krispy Kanye films, but that person was probably just curious about her work.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

A man of taste.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The hotel porn order. Pay per view. What a great era that was. I didn't order this.

[Chris Ryan]

$74.

[Bill Simmons]

What is this? So this thing is a triple con movie. There's a.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What's a triple con movie?

[Bill Simmons]

There's three cons happening simultaneously. Seleno, the waitress who's actually the assassin hired to kill hooker. Redford, turning on Newman, but then he actually doesn't. And then the feds breaking up the betting, but they're actually not the feds. So basically everyone in the movie is lying to somebody. And the hardest thing to pull off with the audience is that I have to be surprised at the end that they. Oh, it's like one of those.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Focus had a great thing with that, with the, with the super bowl when they elaborate.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's early in the film.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the super bowl and Will Smith. And the best part of that movie, pick that jersey. It's like just an awesome 20 minutes and then he gets rid of Margot Robbie. But that's like by far the best part of the movie, right?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, they're hard to do because this movie maybe because it's so old and also is set in a time even 50 years before that, we don't. We're not as suspicious of every single decision that's being made. Like, we want to be on the emotional journey with the characters so we're not doubting them. The challenge of a confidence man movie now is like, you have to suspect everything that the person says is bullshit. And a lot of like Matchstick men kind of undercuts this by having a lead character who, you know, is struggling with something. And so you're like, it complicates our ability to trust them or not. But it's really hard to make a present day version of these kinds of movies.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know whether this played this way in the early 70s, but one of the ingenious things about this film is that when you're watching it, it's like they cast somebody as Seleno who you're like, maybe that's just a waitress. You know, even now, even after seeing this movie dozens of times, I still forget like when you first meet the waitress, you're just like, yeah, she just seems like a waitress working at a depression era diner. You don't think that is the one Lady Hitman.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have a lot of questions about her though. I feel like for unanswerables or picking nits, there's a lot to explore there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, a loose waitress is what she was. Man's knocking on her door at 2 in the morning. He's just lonely. Keep that door locked.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm lonely just like you.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

She's working strategically though.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we don't know that. When it happens we're like, wow, this is Redford. I know he's handsome, but come on. Paul Newman, You've all heard of him. In a slump since Butch Cassidy heading into this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

W USA woosa. What's that movie?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a movie about a radio talk show host. Conservative radio talk show host that is eerily prescient about media. But the movie itself is not good.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes a great notion that didn't do well.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's very underrated in my opinion. Just for the record, we just did a Paul Newman episode like six months ago and I rewatched every single movie ever made. He directed that movie. It's really good adaptation of the Ken Kesey novel.

[Bill Simmons]

Pocket Money. Bad judge Roy Bean. Solid. Yes.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, easily. Just hate Netflix. Just make that a prestige show. Just put a judge somewhere. Who would you guys. Frontier justice being just like Kyle Chandler and we don't have to spend a lot of money.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Perfect.

[Sean Fennessey]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle Chandler is just going to kill some guys his own way in. And then the Macintosh man.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, not as successful. That's his second movie in a row with John Houston and he plays an Irish spy.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it gets worse because he turned down Dirty Harry because he thought it was too right wing.

[Chris Ryan]

But recommended Eastwood.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, Recommended Eastwood.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Would that have worked for you?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think. I think it worked out great for everybody. Too expensive for French Connection. That's when we're maybe shaved the salary.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And he would have been in Popeye Doyle.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Huh? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cut the salary on that one and just do French Connection.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

Supposed to be in Paper Moon and did not work. Did not work out. Signed on, the producers gave him top billing 500k and a profit percentage. But Redford also got 500k. I don't know if he got a.

[Chris Ryan]

Profit percentage, but worked out pretty well for Newman.

[Bill Simmons]

This was, this was the last of this 50s 60s era Newman. And then he starts in the mid 70s. He's moving towards slap shot verdict Newman.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That was going to be one of my takes was that this is the first installment in old Paul Newman. You know, where he's like his hair is more gray mustache, like it's a new era.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a compromise though I think because the original version of the story is like he's supposed to be fat and old and he's supposed to be like basically giving the keys to hooker and is not in the movie very much apparently in the original script. And then Newman was like, I'll do it. But like I do my notes. Yeah, I get a lot more minutes played on. I got a lot more time on the court.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And a lot more shots.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean just the poker scene alone, it's worth it. Paul Newman like that, it's like for his time, not to mention the movie was a massive success. But that nine minutes, he's just cooking all time cooking.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Sorry, I was taking a crap. It's an incredible line.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Redford, which I guess we probably should talked about him more at the top since it's Redford month. But we have five movies to talk about it. But he's in the middle of one of the best five year runs of all time. The Candidate, Jeremiah Johnson, the Way We Were, this thing. Great Gatsby, they re released, Butch Sundance, that crush. Great. Walter Pepper didn't do great. Three Days of the Condor, all the President's Men all in five years.

[Chris Ryan]

Unbelievable and unreal.

[Bill Simmons]

And by the time all the President's Men, it happens. He's a producer on the film. He's starting to get his tentacles out. He's thinking about directing.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I was going to ask you guys both big William Goldman readers and William Goldman writes so well about star power and the way that it emerges.

[Sean Fennessey]

I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

You would probably know better than me at what the timeline is. But these guys essentially are like, I know that if I sign on, this movie gets made. This movie gets a really good Runway, a really good Runway to success. Were people like that using their power in the 60s? Is this like kind of a new phenomenon in the 70s that goes along with New Hollywood?

[Bill Simmons]

It's 100% new phenomenon.

[Sean Fennessey]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually think Redford is in the running for maybe Inventing it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, I think he. I think like John Wayne could do this, like John Wayne could. But what John Wayne, 80% of the time would be like, let's just get John Ford to do it. You know, like he had his teams and stars have their teams and the people that they like to work with, and Howard Hawks and George Cukor and all these like, well known figures. Redford in particular. This movie, I think is the perfect movie to have that conversation about because. And I'm sure you have this in the notes, but David Ward, who wrote the movie, and Julia Phillips and Michael Phillips, the producers and Tony Bill basically brought the movie to Redford and they were like, what do you think? And David Ward said he was going to direct the movie. It was going to be his first film as a director. And Redford was like, nah, nah, this movie's too complicated. We need a real master craftsman to make this movie work. And he went to George Roy Hill, who they just made Butch Casting a son.

[Bill Simmons]

Our fucking guy, George Roy Hill.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And he used that power that you're talking about to basically decline on the movie. And he says that George Roy Hill got his hands on the script. My theory is that he passed this script to George Roy Hill. Seems kind of likely. And that George Roy Hill was like, hey, guys, I'm interested in this movie. And then all of a sudden the studio's like, oh, my God, we could get George Roy Hill and Robert Redford together. And they have Paul Newman's phone number. Let's do that.

[Chris Ryan]

They have, like great stories on the 4k of this has a great making of where they have completely opposing memories of how the movie came together. Like, Newman's like, oh, they're at my apartment and they're twisting my arm and I'm like, guys, I don't know. And then an elevator skips a floor and I'm like, all right, I'll do it. And then Redford's like, I have no memory of an elevator. It seems like Paul Newman wanted to see this movie. And he's like, his mind is going, what can you do?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, yeah, well, this is. I mean, this was a real problem with Redford and Goldman. One of the many reasons they had such a. Such a feud. But Redford came up with this whole alternate version of all the President's men in the early 2010s. And basically it was like Goldman wrote one script and I did everything. But I do think he had that side of him, which I think it was a little prickly in some ways. In Hollywood. Because he would just be like, somebody brought me this script. We'll cut that guy out. He's very cutthroat.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

In a way that I think more actors probably are now.

[Sean Fennessey]

He, he.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The thing is, the kind of apology for it is he was so shrewd. Like, he really had great taste. And when he would take a movie like away from someone, he was often putting it in the hands of another really good artist.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So it's easy to kind of make allowances for it because he just made so many good movies in a row over a 20 year period of time that he was kind of able to get away with being as intense with this stuff as you're saying.

[Chris Ryan]

I guess Beatty becomes this at a certain point.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Nicholson.

[Bill Simmons]

Beatty was way more transparent about it though.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They like. I think he really frustrated a lot of people and was famous on lollygagging around with scripts and being way more cutthroat overtly than Redford was. I think Redford was way more Michael Corleone.

[Sean Fennessey]

Ish. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, we got to get this guy out.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's like there's stories about Beatty taking like two years to say no to something and.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And he wanted to kind of lead everyone along on everything.

[Sean Fennessey]

He.

[Bill Simmons]

You. Both of them had the same not issue, but they always wanted to be the hero. Redford was very, very calculated. There was that famous story about him in the Verdict where he was like, that guy's a loser. We gotta make him less of a loser. And they're like, the guy is a loser. That's how we're making the movie. And he's like, well, I'm out.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Redford, I feel like both in front of the camera and behind the scenes throughout his entire career, really worked hard to burnish this vision of dignity.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That he was very.

[Bill Simmons]

And a moral compass.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, exactly. That there was something kind of moving him forward through the universe that was very power. And that made him a great star. Not always a great actor because he didn't always play characters that you could empathize with. He always just felt so heroic and magical and perfect. And that is probably why he's never been in my personal mega pantheon. He's not a top five actor for me because he makes a similar kind of movie over a long period of time.

[Bill Simmons]

Top five choice actor, though.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah. I mean, he made great movies.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that he's. He's. Cruise is more part of his lineage, you know, whereas trying to think, I guess DiCaprio would be more of like, the Newman lineage of, like. I'm really looking for provocative work to work with really interesting filmmakers. I'll turn my trust over to them and have them depict me how they see fit. I think Redford was like, if people are going to pay to come see a Robert Redford movie, Robert Redford needs to do these five things. And it wasn't as. As locked in as, like, Eastwood, but it was. It was pretty. You're right. Like, I don't remember the names of a lot of Redford characters, but I remember the movies perfectly well.

[Bill Simmons]

He had a couple moves with the characters, right. Because for a while, he's playing the 1970s versions of the Cruise roles.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Downhill Racer is a Cruise character. You know, the Candidate. You could have seen Cruise potentially in that. It would have been a little bit of a push for him. But Three Days of the Condor is a classic Cruise movie. I think Cruise easily could have been hooker.

[Sean Fennessey]

Mm.

[Bill Simmons]

But then he also. He had that.

[Chris Ryan]

He arguably is hooker in Color of Money, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. With that. But that's. I think, the thing that Sean's hitting at that he. There was a spot he wouldn't go to, even like, he does Brubaker. It's basically Robert Redford. It's the thing that I think separates Denzel from him is Denzel, every once in a while, will just fucking go for it with some. Some role where you're like, wow, Denzel, you.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, he almost never did something morally reprehensible on screen, you know, like, literally not until he was in, like, a Marvel movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, would Redford have been in out of Time?

[Chris Ryan]

Would Redford have been in Flight?

[Bill Simmons]

Would. Right.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's. I think that the candidate is interesting because that guy is, like, kind of an empty suit for the whole movie. And then that incredible conclusion where you're like, you know, what do we do now? Is morally complicated. But he doesn't, like, kill a guy in cold blood. You know, he doesn't, like, throw a woman down the stairs. Like, in the 70s, all these guys were making Pacino and De Niro. They were playing these really complicated men. And he was always like. He was the spirit of America. It was a changing America, but he was, like, a positive force in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

He wouldn't have played Neil McCauley.

[Chris Ryan]

No, he was Roy Hobbs. He wasn't Neil McCauley.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

In the Hot Rock.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He did Rob Banks one time.

[Chris Ryan]

One of my favorites of his.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's really good in this movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the Most, it's the hardest he's worked, I think in a movie from a charisma. Look at my personality, look at le. And I don't, I don't think after this movie, I don't remember him doing that again. Like Waldo Pepper I think was a little charismatic, but not, not like this. This guy is like, this is the most fun role in the movie. And you wouldn't have normally, you would have expected Newman to have it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, I can't remember too many movies where he smiles this much.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I mean this is, this is a real, like it's hard to pick nits with this movie because it just looks like the people making it are having the time of their life and you parasocially are like, just want to hang out. Like if you guys wanted to do an hour long version of those guys drinking Schlitz and trying to figure out what con to run, I probably would have watched it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take a break and we'll talk about Robert Shaw. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions, big and small. Like, let's not throw it at A.J. brown this week. That's a small decision, big decision. Let's try to beat the Cowboys. Sometimes you make a decision you can really, really stand behind. I'm trying to think like, I guess when we formed a ringer and we were like, we feel like we can pull this off. We don't care if we're independent. We feel like podcasts could be a big thing of this and we'll see where it goes. Trusted our guts.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You stood behind us.

[Bill Simmons]

Spend a lot of time together, just brainstorming, figuring out stuff. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to create an affordable price for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Robert Shaw, the third piece of this movie. This is not just a Newman and Redford movie. It needs Robert Shaw. Robert shaw is only 45 in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you older than Robert Shaw in this movie? You're older than Robert Shaw in this movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Not quite. I'm getting there. I got more gray hair than he does though.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert shot 45.

[Chris Ryan]

He polishes his Hair with shoe shine.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert shot makes the sting poem 123. Jaws, Robin and Marion. Black Sunday in the deep in five years, then just dies in 1978.

[Chris Ryan]

Natural causes.

[Bill Simmons]

He dies in 50 because his body was just like, we're gone, we're done.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I take a half ass Internet research and put it up here?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

After they finished filming this movie, apparently.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I had this in the Steven Seagal shitting themselves.

[Chris Ryan]

Word for George Roy Hill and Robert Shaw go to West Ireland to party and go on like a one week pub crawl bender that ends with Robert Shaw in his underwear playing a guy in ping pong, screaming at him, screaming, one more game, you bastard. And then he fucking died.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So Shaw was in that class of guys with Richard Harris and Peter o' Toole and Oliver Reed who just like absolutely drank themselves to death.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Just, just could not stop drinking. And some of them, like Oliver Reed made it to like 75 and was.

[Chris Ryan]

Drinking like shots with the Gladiator cast.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Hill said he kind of like passed out after a day and a half and then woke up and heard Shawn, his underwear screaming at some dude playing ping pong. These guys are like, we did all the Jaws stuff about him daring Dreyfus and like, basically like bullying him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

To climb up to the top of the boat and then they had to intervene and like, dude, you're, we're not doing this.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Isn't it so funny though? Like, he's obviously a very decorated actor. He's in A Man for All Seasons. Right. He's one of the great, great movie actors. But the more his like life physically is getting out of control, the more exciting it is to watch him in a movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The more of a mess he becomes, the more like. It's just Quint is intoxicating when he's on screen in that movie. Same thing with this movie. I mean, he's like kind of a one dimensional bad guy in this movie. He's just angry the whole movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But there's just something about him that you can't look away from.

[Chris Ryan]

Angry and gullible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I didn't. I tried to do as much, as much research as possible. Sadly, I couldn't find a lot more than the Jaws thing. But one of the things was he, Sean Connery was like his natural rival.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He hated Sean Connery and felt like they were, they were like basically bird and magic.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Was it From Russia with Love?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

They went up against each other.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was like the Scottish Irish thing, but it Was just like, that guy's in my way. It's like one of those type things. And there's just having 20 drinks.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen it from Russia with Love where he's like, I'm basically. You're like. He's pretending to be his like, counterpart. And it's. It's like this guy could have been Bond. This is crazy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I miss the days when a 45 year old could look like him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Like, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean McVeigh is like 45. Like, you think that context. Robert Shaw looks like he's in his mid-60s in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, think of the. Just the timbre of his voice. Just sounds like he was born in 1740.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm also trying to imagine Robert Shaw wearing joggers and crushing tape.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

In a war.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So he dies in 1978. And let's just say there wasn't like a big police investigation on maybe what happened. They're like, yeah, Robert finally died. Just. Just getting after it. Supporting cast, Eileen Brennan, Ray Walston, Charles Durning and our guy, Jack Kehoe. We have another category for. We'll get to later. But Robert Earl Jones is Luther. Yeah. Father of James Earl Jones, who was like kind of, kind of in a whole bunch of for a while, like 30s, 40s, 50s.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He's kind of playing the James Earl Jones part in this movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, you can see that they have a connection.

[Bill Simmons]

So we mentioned the title cards. And then Scott Joplin's the Entertainer was adapted by your guy, Marv Hamlisch.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What a year for Marv.

[Bill Simmons]

Marv had a huge year. Incredible the way we were in this multiple Oscars.

[Chris Ryan]

He's Barbara's guy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Like he's. He's always tinkling the eyebrows among many other people's guy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it was based apparently maybe on this book in 1940. The Big Con.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

David, who then sued them. And David S. Word was still mad about it. David S. Word. We have that category sometimes where I think you might be involved in the Wikipedia in this because there's a lot of specific details. Very specific. Like, although there was no way they plagiarized the book, they had to settle to get. To avoid the publicity. It was one of the.

[Chris Ryan]

And his wife won the Bel Air Forest competition.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Very, very strange IMDb though, because eventually writes Major League, the program and Sleepless in Seattle just becomes like, he said he was inspired to write this thing while researching pickpockets.

[Chris Ryan]

David Ward's fifth attached rewatchables.

[Bill Simmons]

I Think it is. We don't have a screenwriter rankings yet, but.

[Sean Fennessey]

Well.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And when you do the Milagro Beanfield War later on in Redford month.

[Bill Simmons]

There we go.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, we'll. We'll.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

We'll have six David Ward films.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie won seven Oscars. Best picture and director, writing, editing, score, costume Design, production design. 10 nominations. Had a top 10 song and a hit soundtrack.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

This is one of the higher percentages. Academy awards wise.

[Bill Simmons]

70.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

7 out of 10 is pretty good. There are a couple movies that have won 11 out of 12.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's the.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you good with this over American Graffiti and the Exorcist.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'm not. I'm not. It's not better than either of those films, in my opinion. And the Exorcist not winning is a goddamn nightmare.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

One of my hottest takes is the Exorcist.

[Bill Simmons]

I knew we'd get into it at some point, and I think we did this when we did the Exorcist. We all like this thing.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I like this thing.

[Chris Ryan]

It's. It's tough because, like, the Sting for what it is, is perfect. But the Exorcist is a way more important movie.

[Bill Simmons]

How about the fact they came out in the same day?

[Chris Ryan]

Fucking hell.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have a. I have.

[Bill Simmons]

When we had movies. We're coming back.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

We're doing great. Movies are doing great.

[Bill Simmons]

Great. We're never gonna have comedies anymore, but we're doing great.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Can I pitch one of my takes with you?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

December 1973 at the movies. Here are the films that were released. Serpico, the French animated movie. Fantastic Planet in the Criterion Collection, the Wicker man, the Three Musketeers, the Last Detail, Papillon, Woody Allen's Sleeper, Amor Card, the Fellini movie, then on Christmas Day, Magnum Force, the Dirty Harry sequel, the Sting, and the Exorcist.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Is that the best month in movie history?

[Bill Simmons]

It's right. It's right when movies probably mattered the most for entertainment.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you want to do? Let me go to the movies for nine hours?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's insane. Insane.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And all. I mean, you know, the year itself is also amazing. It's like, that's Paper Moon. That's American Graffiti. As you said, there's a ton of other great stuff, but that month in particular is mind blowing.

[Bill Simmons]

Best directing. George Rohill wins. He beats Lucas Bergman, Friedkin, Bertolucci. Some scalps that year, man.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Heavy hitters.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Redford, only nomination ever for acting. Does not work.

[Chris Ryan]

This is crazy. I didn't know this until I was reading about this thing that I could. I couldn't believe that.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'll wait for my hottest take.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, Jack Lemmon wins for Save the Tiger. How are we feeling about that one now?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, this is part of the long domino history of makeup awards where, like, he probably should have won for the Apartment or Days of Wine and Roses or something like that. And because he didn't, Pacino doesn't win for Serpico, which is a sin. He should have won for Serpico. And then Pacino doesn't win until Scent of a Woman.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Joel Embiid beat Jokic that year. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm getting.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, same problem. Exact same problem.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you. So you think Pacino over Nicholson for Last Detail?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's. Oh, it's okay for me to accept that because Nicholson wins for one flip of the Cuckoo's Nest.

[Bill Simmons]

Two years later, Pacino for Serpico.

[Sean Fennessey]

Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

Last detail is incredible.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I love both.

[Bill Simmons]

We have to do Pacino Month before Pacino dies. I don't like that we. That we did Red. We had. You needed a death to trigger Redford month.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Two for the money. Looking for Richard.

[Bill Simmons]

Two for the money is. I'm gambling month. We already had that one planned out.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What else is in Pacino month?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there's a bunch of good ones left. Yeah, we have some Dog Day Afternoon we haven't done yet. We've done Scarface.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, well, yeah. Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some. There's some big ones left. $5.5 million budget for this movie made 257.

[Chris Ryan]

That'd be like 900 million now, right?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

One of the most profitable movies.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they said if you adjusted it, it's like the biggest non IP movie probably ever.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Although there is a sequel.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't talk about the sequel. Second biggest movie in 73. Exorcist was first. Graffiti was third. Redford had two. The top five. Our guy, Raj, Roger Ebert, four stars.

[Chris Ryan]

Bang.

[Bill Simmons]

Said one of the most stylish movies of the year. Really enjoyed it. You know who didn't enjoy it? Polly and Kale. Oh, we have you, Raj. And now we have Settle Down Pauline. She wrote meant to be roguishly charming entertainment, and that's how most of the audience takes it. But I found it visually claustrophobic and totally mechanical. It keeps cranking on section after section and it doesn't have a good spirit.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Cranking on.

[Chris Ryan]

You say these plebes liked it, but not me.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Let me ask you a question.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, this is why Pauline's Stuff was so fun to read because half the time you're just like, come on.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Do you think you would be friends with Pauline?

[Chris Ryan]

He would definitely have tried to hire Pauline Kale.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, that. That's for sure. But would you? Because you would have been like, God damn, didn't see this one coming. You love when someone just. Just curve balls you.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, she probably had the most zags of any critic of all time.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But she had her guys, too. She had her people. I like any.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have absolutely tried to hire. I would have been friends with her, and there probably would have been multiple times where we didn't talk.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yes. Two grudge holders.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, she would have.

[Chris Ryan]

You would send Sean a note saying, you can't let Pauline write.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I need you to call Pauline and.

[Bill Simmons]

Tell her she's wrong. Tell Pauline this is. We can't have this.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You running the New Yorker in 1973 would be amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I would have been off for the Zags, but there's just sometimes where she was just. She just got. She just put her. Put her shoes in the ground and.

[Chris Ryan]

Just editing Cy Hirsch.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Wesley Zag. So I always love the Wesley. At least he put some thought into them.

[Chris Ryan]

A Zag artist.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

She. I mean, her pieces are amazing to read.

[Bill Simmons]

They're amazing.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

They just. It just seems like they're written from another planet.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you think of the best?

[Bill Simmons]

Visually, Claustrophobic is such, like, a weird. How do you even come up with that?

[Chris Ryan]

So I would say that it's a film where he, like, was inspired by 1930s movies to not have a lot of extras in it. And there are several scenes where it's, like, late at night, there's only three people in this diner.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, like, it's also because those movies were all made on sound stages, and they chose to shoot this movie on. On sound stages. And so it's fake world. Like, you're in. You're in somebody's dream idea of a 1935 movie instead of what 1935 actually looked like. Nothing is worn down. Nothing feels real. It's all this kind of, like, elevated production design. So I get what she's saying, but I don't know. The movie's pretty loose and fun. Like, it doesn't feel claustrophobic at all.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I just love that all her takes, I think I go back and read them sometimes. I really enjoy it. She just is like, here are my thoughts. Like, nobody does that anymore. So. Yeah, she would have driven me crazy. I would. I would have been mad at her like three times. But ultimately would have loved having her in my life.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think Paul and Kale would have liked one battle after another?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I know that she would have.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That's nice.

[Bill Simmons]

You know that she would have. Interesting. You talked to her in a Ouija board.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

There's so many things in it that are like the things that. That turned her on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, let's do. Most rewatchable scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

The.

[Bill Simmons]

The first con. The switch in the pants with Luther. It's great stuff.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Guy comes up to you.

[Chris Ryan]

This isn't going to work, though.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's like 36.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Give me all the money in your. In your breast pocket.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And I want to show you what I'm going to do with it. What are you. What are you doing?

[Chris Ryan]

What are you doing? To the one who carries cash still.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think I only have 10 bucks in my pocket. I used to carry like 500 every day, but I don't do that anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

I always had no less than 400 on me.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I was just in Boston for eight days. I never used a dollar bill.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's what I was going to say. Aside from tipping people, when's the last time you. Like, when's the last time you handed someone 20 bucks to pay for something?

[Bill Simmons]

You can't do this thing now because it would be like stealing somebody's WI fi.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Give me your Social Security number.

[Bill Simmons]

A bitcoin sting would suck. That's my take.

[Chris Ryan]

Wasn't that.

[Sean Fennessey]

What.

[Chris Ryan]

No, that's not what the runner. Runner was about.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

The Affleck thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I don't recall.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like this scene. It's a good way to kick the movie off.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Fast forward about 35 minutes to Lana game. Pickpocketed on the train. Newman showing off card tricks to Redford. The gin trick, which I know CR still obeys.

[Chris Ryan]

Every diamond.

[Bill Simmons]

Playing poker. I think this whole 10 minutes is just. You just gotta like, make that one long giant scene.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Always drink gin with a mark, kid. They can't tell if you cut it.

[Bill Simmons]

Great stuff.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You want to. You're so. You're. You're skipping over. Hooker loses at roulette.

[Bill Simmons]

We can put it in. It makes me mad because I know that they're establishing that he's a loser and compulsive and. But I just don't think you would bet the 3,000 right away. You can't be a good gambler and a bad gambler at the same time.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

You're having a night out. It's Like, I had this for nitpicks for later. You're amazing. You're paying 500 a hand. Like, you're spreading it out. You're not just doing that.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also good because it's like, even though he's hit this big payday, he. You might as well just light the money on fire. He wouldn't. He doesn't know what to do with. Needs to be a more significant victory than cash.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What about the scene when hooker gives Snyder Charles Durning the counterfeit money? I like that scene. I actually don't have a lot of rewatchable scenes, but I do like both of those scenes.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

They're like, world established.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I was trying to scale it down for the rewatchable scenes. I like both of those, though. The poker. There's some nitpicks with the poker we can get into later. But I really enjoy this scene. And Newman's hilarious and so fun and somehow ends up with four jacks.

[Chris Ryan]

Hilarious in this.

[Bill Simmons]

Give me the deck with the threes and nines. What do you think? It was all threes and nines.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I don't know enough about poker to even guess.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I don't even know how they could have arranged that. And obviously, what did he have is he had his jacks up his sleeve, I suppose for the big win.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he kept doing.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, he's up against his body.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

Somehow his, like, comic acting in that scene is so great. He's just, like, looking behind him.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think how many stars ever are as good in that scene as he is. Like, you really need to have the right amount of charisma. You gotta be kind of a scumbag, but I'm still rooting for you. He doesn't get his ass kicked, which is important. You know, he's pushing the line. There's something not. Not a lot of dudes. Leo Wolf of Wall Street. Leo is a little bit. That's a good one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Sure.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

There's. There's something interesting about Newman with that because he was a functioning alcoholic for, like, 30 years, and he would drink, like, 12 beers a day. And the whole thing with dipping his face in the cold water, and he does it in three other movies.

[Chris Ryan]

Ruffalo does it in Task.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Does he really? Yeah, That's. That's a thing that he did every day because he drank every day. And in that scene, he's playing drunk, but he spent his whole life pretending he wasn't drunk. So there's, like, a really interesting dynamic going on there.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think he's like, is he loaded during movies? Like when you're watching him?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I assume not. Not when he's filming. But I mean the stories are legion of him just crushing every day.

[Bill Simmons]

And now he lives on in the spirit of my mom. Sorry. Not sorry. Hooker. Hooker sells Lonigan on double crossing Newman. It's like, whoa.

[Chris Ryan]

In the train.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this real? Is this not real? What's going on here? The flake blue fake blue note race that Shaw wins. Really good stuff.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We're entering this whole other world in the movie. Newman Redford have a good scene with the revengers for sucker scene. So why are you doing it? Seems worthwhile, doesn't it? I just like seeing them in a scene. Seleno the assistant gets killed. I think CR was a little sweet on Selena.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not. Not a traditional Hollywood beauty.

[Chris Ryan]

But two of them were both lonely blue plate special between us.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, she's been around.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Like she could show you some things.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

She's got a silencer.

[Bill Simmons]

Her getting killed is a good. Wait, what? She's the assassin?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the final con. Really good stuff. You're not gonna stick around for your share? Nah, I'd only blow it. My favorite's the poker scene that's by most rewatchable.

[Chris Ryan]

Poker's pretty high up there. I honestly have one. My most rewatchable scene you did not mention which is the first time Gandorf and Hooker meet and Gondorf's way hungover. He's like, Luther said, I could learn from you. I already know how to drink. Every line is perfect. The two of them jousting is perfect. The obvious affection that they have for each other. But also you kind of can't decide whose movie this is going to be in that scene. And you never really figure it out. And I love Newman in that scene.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a great pick. I would do the poker scene as well for obvious poker reasons.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1973 thing about this movie? It's a hard one because it's set in 1936 Chicago. But I still have an answer.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have one thing. So this is a movie about. About the Depression. But it seems like a charming throwback because we're enough time has passed generationally.

[Chris Ryan]

Romantic ideas that it can seem fun.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Like this would be. If there was a movie in 2062 about right now, you'd be like, oh, there's some like, isn't that interesting? Whereas like living here right now, we're like, we live in hell right now. It's a weird time to be alive. But when enough time passes, what feels like the worst thing in the universe has a kind of charm.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I thought you were gonna mention Eddington there.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, part of the reason why I like that movie is because I've seen very few movies that are like, it's as bad as it seems. You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

I want to do a family rom com about how much weirdly fun the first two months of COVID was because you just stuck with your wife and kids.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

It was the most time I spent with my kids probably ever for the rest of my life. And now I'm nostalgic for it. But we. We were all fearing for death and we couldn't leave our house.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You were at the perfect time in your life, though.

[Bill Simmons]

I was great.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Ask a parent who had like a four year old and a one year old what it was like to have kids.

[Bill Simmons]

Then they would say it was rational.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Every part of COVID was horrible. But the one thing was like, ah, we were all kind of hanging out.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Trying to get through it really well. You were like, right at the precipice of Empty Nest. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I was doing some seasonal cleaning of my house and came across like a bunch of the. What we thought were like, suitable masks from really early Covid, but it's just like some woman made it on Etsy. It says like, we'll get through this together. Knit across the front.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Air just flying into it.

[Chris Ryan]

I had like a Liverpool, like, what's the thing on Survivor that they get.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Oh, the buffs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I had a Liverpool buff and I was like, this will keep me safe from the novel Corruption virus.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You've had Covid, what, eight times now? How many times have you had it?

[Chris Ryan]

The guy still have it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You were talking to Newsom a lot back then.

[Sean Fennessey]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Me and Gav that Gavin said stay away from the beaches. Can really spread there off the water.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

How's your pod with Gav going?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, surprisingly hasn't picked up by Spotify. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's only available.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's funny.

[Bill Simmons]

I have heard the most 1973 thing. Robert Shaw not seeming like he's 65 years old because he's actually 45. I just think that's a different era of actor.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You see all these dudes and you're like. And then payphones. Oh, how it's like a nostalgic version of the payphone in these movies and now payphone. I just see. I notice payphones when I see them in movies now because they're so far removed from society.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

There's some weird to see one and there is one in one battle after another actually in a pivotal scene in the movie. But yeah, I mean, when's the last time you saw one in the wild? I can't even remember.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen them in Philly, but they're like completely stripped for parts to the extent that there are any parts in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you write any payphones in the Task? When you're working on the episodes, what say is the best? What do you got, Sierra?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, let's see. You know what? Sean mentioned something about, about like looking back romantically on the, on the 1930s. And I did feel like the thing that's maybe aged the best about this movie is that it inverts everything. It's about. So it's like a movie about the Depression. But all these guys are dressed really snazzy.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

They're like in cool bars and there's money flying around.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Cash.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a movie about like an incredibly anxious, tight situation and everybody is cool as shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody's like, I haven't had a meal in eight days.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Nobody's like, man, I'm really sweating this. What if we fudge up? It's like, hey, kid, what's the worst that could happen? He could kill you. And it's like, that's what makes it work. The stakes are so high.

[Sean Fennessey]

High.

[Chris Ryan]

But the guys are so cool. And you watch this and you're like, this is just everything from Ocean's Eleven is just drawn directly from this.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a great take.

[Bill Simmons]

Good man. I have great clothes in this movie. The three piece suits and fedoras, just really enjoyable. Apparently started a little fashion trend in the, in the 73, 74 range with the suits.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Would you ever do an episode of this show where we had to dress up like the costume?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

From the movies.

[Bill Simmons]

We dressed like golfers for Tin Cup. That was fun. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if you did. Well, we just were like wearing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Just, just dressed the way house.

[Bill Simmons]

We just dress like cows. I have fixing races, counterfeit money, cheating at poker.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

These are all very much still all.

[Bill Simmons]

These things that just seem like they were way easier to do once upon a time.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And now will be way harder. It made me think like, you know, Jonte Porter's probably watching this going, man, in 1936, I really could have been Cooking. You could just be. People would believe anything. You just give them fake money. They wouldn't look at it.

[Chris Ryan]

It is funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Easier times.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you ever on, like, a group text about a. A game, and you're watching it on cable, so you're ahead by like a minute. And so you can't, like. Because like, yesterday I was on. I was watching the Eagles on cable, but Andy and Zach were watching on, like, YouTube TV. And I kept being like, like, holy. And they'd be like, we're not there yet. But it's like, you could be like, no, not Jalen hurts and just watched him die for a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought you were gonna break look like his name.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's non contact. You hate to see that.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I thought you were gonna bring up how easy it was to identify Tony point shaving in blue chips, you know, 35 years ago. And it was like we just watched the VHS tape and it was very clear that he was doing it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no, man, not Tony Redford. Running.

[Chris Ryan]

He spends a lot of time running.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He does. He does.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruise s form.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz, I'm just gonna do this later. I'm happy to do it now. Just best A list. Acting runner Redford versus Cruz. I think. I think Redford has a real case.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Also kind of underrated in the great athlete star. So, yeah, Reynolds and Cruz and all these guys who do a little skiing with skiing, baseball. He, you know, he. I guess he doesn't appear in the Legend of Bagger Vance, but that's a golf movie somewhere.

[Chris Ryan]

Gilbert Arenas is like, Redford was a bucket.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's a better runner than Cruz? Red. Are they in the finals for sprinting? Cruz vs. Redford in the sprinting A list finals. Is there anybody else?

[Chris Ryan]

The question is whether or not Redford can go straight into tumbling the way Cruz does in the firm, you know, straight into, like, somersaults.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, the firm for 10 minutes, cruises. Sprinting.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

He sprints into an office, jumps out of a window, sprints. Goes to that tram thing. Sprints again.

[Chris Ryan]

Sprints to Arkansas, basically.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I think he's still the goat.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He's the goat of running.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's another one. What stage the best pretending to be drunker than you are when you're gambling. I know Sean's done this.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I haven't. It's not really my thing because I'm just not a big talker at the table.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't talk a lot of.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about characters named Horse Face Lee, Slim Miller, Suitcase Murphy, the Boon Kid Daffy Burke, Limehouse Chappie.

[Chris Ryan]

I was wondering whether you would put this group up against the Goodfellas Nicknames.

[Bill Simmons]

They're really good. Big Alabama, Crying Jonesy.

[Chris Ryan]

Big Alabama. Crucially from New Orleans though.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And then we have nothing on Nikki two times.

[Bill Simmons]

And we also have a Leroy and a Luther and a hooker.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Pickpocketing.

[Chris Ryan]

It's aged the best.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Has aged the best. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's an underutilized movie device at this point. Maybe because it should almost be phone pocketing instead of wallets.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Pick up on South Street. Sam Fuller movie. Incredible pickpocketing scene. And then linus from Ocean's Eleven is an all time pickpocketer.

[Bill Simmons]

Another 48 hours. Really good pickpocketing scene. Saving it for movies I like to hate. Watch month. What stage the best? Any train trip with stars where you feel like something might happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Trading Places corollary.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Love it.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna be on a train for a little while. This would be good.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's great.

[Chris Ryan]

You and Sal should do guess the lines. But like San Diego.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Shaw limps of this movie because he injured his leg playing handball. That was the official explanation. And they just told him to use the limp for the character.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think he just fell down a staircase after nine scotches.

[Bill Simmons]

What do we know about Robert? Would you go a door. A handball. A handball accident or door B? Yeah, door B.38. Drinks on a Sunday night and fell down a flight of stairs. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

What stage the best. Not only Schlitz in bottles. Schlitz was the biggest beer in America in the 30s. But also guys drinking beers because it's too early to start drinking in the morning. So they'll have like a beer for breakfast.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right? Right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's what I do.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that just Everybody before, like 1964 was shithoused the entire day?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that's basically what bad man's about.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Can we talk? Let's talk about drinking first.

[Bill Simmons]

But then they all died when they were like 51, so.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Okay. This is my thing.

[Chris Ryan]

They got the most out of life, though.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I know you don't you. You don't drink as much as you did when you were in your 20s and 30s, right?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So not even close.

[Bill Simmons]

Fair to say definitely not.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So neither do I. And I know you don't either. Right? I mean, you've never been a huge. A tonnage drinker.

[Chris Ryan]

I still drink five days a week.

[Bill Simmons]

Sierra's in black. Tar heroin now.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

It's cleaner.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What happens to your body where you get to a certain age. And then they're like. If you cross the two drink thresholds and they're like, no, I will make this really hard on you the next day. In a way that you never, ever understood it. What is the. Because these guys who we're talking about, when I was growing up, I was like, well, this is what men do. They have eight drinks and it's fine. But then you learn a little bit more about life and more or less you die at 50 in your sleep when you drink this way. Like, it's just not.

[Chris Ryan]

Or playing handball.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. The more you drink, the worse you sleep. And the worse you sleep, the faster you die.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Okay, I'll go with that. Because I definitely sleep much worse when I drink now, as opposed to even 10 years.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, especially if you're having like two, three glasses of wine, just the sugar from that. If you're having a little later, like, you know, I mean, we were, I was, I saw a bunch of my bunch of buddies this summer for different reasons, including my old high school buddies. And we would talk about how I would, we all of us would. We would drink Jack and Cokes, but then I would have like six Marlboro Lights and I'd have eight Jack and Cokes. And then I would wonder why, like, I woke up at 4:30 in the morning. Then I would clean out some Moroccans playing. Playing pool. But I'd wake up at four in the morning with my like, thinking I was gonna have a heart attack. Like, oh, really? That, That's Coke? Yeah, eight Cokes and cigarettes.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It is like a real confrontation with middle age though, where you're like, I had two and a half drinks and I've awoken at 4am and I'm like sweating.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Whereas in the past that was light work.

[Chris Ryan]

I agree with you. But I do think that there's something. There is like a. An environmental thing where it's like, if you're very aware of what it's going to do and everybody's having conversations like this, like, off my sleep, my sleep. Do you think any man before the Vietnam War talked about what kind of sleep they were getting?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

No, that's a good point.

[Chris Ryan]

Not that I want to go back to that. I'm just saying that, like, if you were just like, I have to suffer in silence.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I woke up three times to pee.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The greatest generation did not need to listen to the Huberman Lab podcast. That was not important to Them.

[Bill Simmons]

Robert Shaw apparently was a huge infrared sauna guy, though.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But Redford looks like a guy who's never had a drink in his life.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Newman. Part of what's so interesting about him is he was so, so beautiful and always so fit, even though he was drinking a case of beer.

[Chris Ryan]

That's because he took pure sunlight.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He swam in infested rivers. Strong constitution.

[Bill Simmons]

There's one other. What's age the best? And I encourage people to go Watch this on YouTube. Liz Taylor presents the best picture for this thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Liz Taylor. I'm not saying she's the hottest woman of all time, but she just. Just make sure you mention her from 58 to 70. Who. Yeah, just if. If the conversation's being had, just bring her up.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

73. She looks great.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, this is getting a little like your Sinatra take, but go ahead.

[Bill Simmons]

Sinatra was the coolest person ever lived.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, definitely.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

I won that argument. Everyone says.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, everyone says that for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

People are saying. People are saying I won.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It wasn't an argument.

[Bill Simmons]

Liz Taylor still looks like lights out of 1973. Goes up to do Best Picture. The streaker had just happened.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And she's frazzled by the streaker and trying to get through the things. And she stops at one point and she's like, like, I'm sorry, I'm still a little whatever. And then gets through it. The sting wins and. And then one of them is like, I can't believe. Oh, Julia Phillips. I can't believe I'm up here with Liz Taylor. And you hear Liz Taylor, like happily laughing. It's just like, it's very Hollywoody. Everything about the Oscars back then, it wasn't as polished as now. And it's just like, everybody's just going. They're probably all bombed before they get there. They're not worried about like the red carpet, being interviewed by somebody.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

In 73. Liz Taylor, I think at that point had been married to Richard Burton, the other world class drinker.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Welsh.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Titan back then. So then Pacino, who is nominated for best actor, he had a whole story about. He didn't realize the.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

The category was televised. And he was like zonked out and drunk.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like. He took a gazanix or something.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And thought it was an hour long show and it was three hours. So by the third hour, he had the pee. He didn't know whether he could get up.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

How does Al Pacino not know how long the oscars are in 1974.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

There have been two Godfather movies that he is the star of that were. Yeah, he's nominated.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think he was that value. You're just like, I guess.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He was saying he hoped he didn't win because he thought he was like incoherent when he like he was treating.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The Oscars like it was a Starbucks drive through. He's like, I'm gonna wrap this up in like 20 minutes. We'll be back out on the road.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You've been to the Oscars like five times.

[Bill Simmons]

This sounds like the best Oscars you could have gone to. Sounds like it was the craziest. The streaker was fun.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Where does David Niven rank in your all time hosts? Because he was the host and he was the one who had that crack about the shortcomings with the streaker.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have him low.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Low because he was British.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

David, I think put close some bars with Robert Shaw.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, for sure. We'll take one more break and then we'll do the the mini categories this episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. If you're like me and you track your steps, your sleep, even your screen time, why wouldn't you track your cat's health too? Pretty Litter is like smart tech for your litter box. This color changing litter actually monitors your cat's health by detecting potential issues in their urine. Things like ph changes or blood so you can catch problems early. Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at PrettyLittle.com Rewatchables Once again, PrettyLitter.com Rewatchables to save 20% on your first order and Get a free cat toy PrettyLittle.com Rewatchables Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details. Okay, Big Kahuna burger award for best used food and drink the fake gin. Who beat that?

[Chris Ryan]

I had the blue plate.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. Oh, what?

[Chris Ryan]

Like have you guys ever had a.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Blue plate on it?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. He should have had the meat bloof, but she was like, it wouldn't be much better.

[Bill Simmons]

That was my dad's podcast that we never gave him at the ringer.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

The blue plate special was going to call it Great shot. Go Toward most cinematic shot. What do you have?

[Chris Ryan]

I actually went off book here and did wonderful edit, Willie for William Reynolds, Hollywood editor who did Sound of Music.

[Bill Simmons]

Zagging like Pauline Kale, Godfather.

[Chris Ryan]

Just the use of wipes, you know, makes the movie kind of feel like softer than it probably would have been. It's very gritty content, but it's like a very beautiful, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Great edit, Willie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, that's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Cut, Willie.

[Chris Ryan]

Wonderful edit, Willie.

[Bill Simmons]

Wonderful edit, Willie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He uses the iris transition as well. Right where the screen shrinks down.

[Bill Simmons]

Good one. Kid Cudi. Pursuit of Absworthy. It's got to be the entertainer.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Chess, Rockwell Brocklanders were best character name. I mean, I mentioned 30 of them. Johnny Hooker's really solid, though.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Henry Gondorf. I feel like you hear that name and I can see Newman in my head right away.

[Chris Ryan]

I do think if you were going to close your eyes and think of an Irish mobster, Dale Lonergan is like, as close as you could get.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty good. What do you have for a plex category?

[Chris Ryan]

I had Dennis Benny Hanna, War for Steel scene stealing location. Is the carousel whorehouse just.

[Bill Simmons]

You love a good whorehouse in a movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Now, is the idea there that you get a ride on the ride? Like, what's the Is. I think there's a little bit of promo.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But I also just really love the idea that it was like, the girls aren't busy tonight. Can they ride the carousel? Imagine just going downstairs, seeing a bunch of hookers on.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You really gotta, like, wipe down those. Those horses on the car.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think in the 1930s they.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Were like disinfectant that they.

[Chris Ryan]

Transmission that way.

[Sean Fennessey]

Got it.

[Bill Simmons]

There's parts of the 1930s that just sounded great.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

90% of people having to clap syphilitic whorehouses.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, that part, baby.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Drinking 16 Schlitzes.

[Bill Simmons]

Those Schlitz in the bottle.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Look, I love to take half a million dollars off of an Irish gangster. Yeah, that sounds really fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

[Chris Ryan]

I have one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I went too.

[Chris Ryan]

So there's like a. It's hard to explain this, but there is a subplot of two other hitmen pursuing Hooker. It's Cole and Sullivan.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And they're supposed to be taken off the job by Lonergan, who puts Selena on the job. But they stay on it and it just gets confusing and kind. It's really a hat on a hat. It's unnecessary to have yet another multiple assassins team of hitmen chasing him. And it just really Creates more running for redford. So on 30th Rewatch, I was like, I could do without Colton Sullivan. It doesn't really do anything for the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

You have anything.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I don't really think any of the performances are bad. Do you have somebody that you want to point to? That doesn't really work.

[Chris Ryan]

If you say Eileen Brennan, I'm walking out.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I liked her. I did have the question, how is there not a 1936 babe in this movie? What are we doing?

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, you get something that the. The striptease. Sally Kirk at the beginning of the film.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So just some of the people we had in the 73 range, we had young Jane Alexander.

[Sean Fennessey]

We.

[Bill Simmons]

Julie Christie sitting there for one scene.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We dying Ladd. We Tuesday weld. Like, we had. We had the. We had the troops. We could have pulled something off. George Ray Hill was not interested. He's like, this is a guy's movie. I want everybody to look like 1936 people. And that's it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It would be unlikely, I guess, at the time for a woman to be a more elaborate part of the con, but that's where you want to see.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, you want a woman who would kind of ensnare Doyle.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe Lonergan has a girlfriend that hooker's going after.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Mistress.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Definitely.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's where we get Christy Canyon. You know.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, maybe. What's Newman's character's name? Gandalf. Gandalf. Gandalf.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Gandalf the gray.

[Bill Simmons]

James Gandalf.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He's an incredible wizard.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And maybe he goes and he's going to get food by himself and he sees somebody who works in a bookstore.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of those. It's like, why are you so interested in what I do, lady?

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Just have one of those scenes.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Catherine Ross, a little reunion from Horses.

[Bill Simmons]

What say it's the worst. The sequel. You mentioned it earlier. It's really awful. Mac Davis is in it. Jackie Gleason.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The one thing is, Jackie Gleason is perfect for Gondorf, as he has written in the script.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Aging, heavyset. Really insinuating. I'm just. I'm just saying, like, you could have seen a world where this movie was Gleason and Redford, and that would have been coherent. It would have been a different kind of a movie, but it would have been coherent.

[Bill Simmons]

80S HBO and 80s cable. The Sting and the Sting 2 were on a lot. And the Sting 2 is really bad. And it was on for a While for a couple years, unfortunately, few racial slurs in this movie. Not awesome. It's slow in an endearing 70s way, but it is a little slow. Yeah, like for my. I don't know if my son. Ben Simmons is making it two plus.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Hours after the Blue Note scene. It kind of takes its time.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, because it's like they insist on doing another bet before the Sting.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Where he's got to get like more information. Yeah. There's a lot of Ray Walston helping him set up the situation. And who's the other guy? Twist. Twist. Yes, kid. Twist.

[Bill Simmons]

This is what you. This is what it said in Wikipedia about the author of the big cons selling them and settling out of court for 600k. This is just the Wikipedia excerpt. Universal settled out of court for 600,000. Irking Ward, who resented the presumption of guilt implied by an out of court settlement. Done for business expediency.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know that. There was a whole. It's a lot of industry of people who kind of trail behind big scripts to make these plagiarism accusations.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

We just saw this, right, with the Dave Franco Alison Brie movie together. There was a big suit about that. The plot of that movie being lifted.

[Bill Simmons]

From another writer I wanted to sue for to get my 100 minutes back. The movie sucked.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Listen, I wasn't a big fan either.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't sue when I didn't see. When they stole the Purge from me. They literally stole the Purge.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I created the Purge.

[Chris Ryan]

Purge.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You. You filing an injunction against Blumhouse, Kevin.

[Bill Simmons]

Wilds and I have picked half baked ideas. I did the whole idea about leap.

[Chris Ryan]

Year, what you could claim. You know, I had diaries.

[Bill Simmons]

I said, on leap year, there are no rules, no crimes. It's one day. I did a whole thing about it and then. And then the Purge happened.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't you know, Grillo, did you ask her about it?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I did, you know, no bad ideas in a brainstorm. But yeah, you're right. This is a cottage industry.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I mean, if. If you want to shift the sort of business strategy of the ringer, full stop to you doing guys who had ideas that you had.

[Bill Simmons]

You watched Leap Year and you watched the Purge. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. They also apparently plagiarized some 1958 Maverick television series episode with James Garner. Oh, there was some stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

There was also something. Another great con man by a Orson Welles radio play. The Three Lives of Harry Lime. There's a. There's Some similarities, apparently in the story.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a con movie. Overacting word. Redford dialing up like two or three times here. And uncharacteristically for Redford ways.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the thing though, right, Keo? Kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But even before he. Even before he's doing the con, you know, like in the bar with Charles Durning, he's. He's. He's laying it on.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He enrolled in detective school.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I got Lonigan being like, the name's Loniken. Don't you forget it.

[Bill Simmons]

I. Did you think CR would be talking like Robert Shaw this whole movie? I was hoping this whole pot.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just glad we're not doing Irish mob month now.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What else would be in the mix there?

[Chris Ryan]

State of grace.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

In Bruges.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

In Bruges.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Got a fourth one.

[Chris Ryan]

No, not off the top of my head. Do you? I guess the Irishman.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, sure. That works.

[Bill Simmons]

It does work. You have a flex category.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I'm going to call my own number and do a criteria. Orgasm.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I had it just in case you didn't do it. I had it for later, but let's do it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So the rigged black 22 on the roulette wheel where hooker loses in that scene early in the movie is the same spot that Rick Blaine uses for both Captain Renault and the Bulgarian couple to set them up to win in Casablanca. Very purposeful homage to Casablanca.

[Sean Fennessey]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Terry Orgasm.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word. I have one.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have one as well.

[Chris Ryan]

I kind of tip my hand with the. This is an all time classic, but it should not have won Best Picture.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. I don't even think that's that hot of a take.

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if Exorcist should have won. Movie is less rewatchable. I shouldn't say I wonder. It's the hottest take. This movie would be less rewatchable but more interesting if Gondorf betrayed hooker or vice versa. There was some actual real tension and it wasn't all like play acting for.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think it's great success is because of the spirited vibe.

[Bill Simmons]

You walk out of the movie happy and you're like, yeah, yeah, but I did it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think this is not my hottest take, but it is something that I felt watching it. I think this movie is best seen every 10 years because you made this point earlier. If you forget a few of the yes plot moments, it's more fun.

[Chris Ryan]

If you forget that the FBI is fake yes. Because if you know the FBI is fake, you're kind of like, all right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Or if you forget Seleno. I just forgot Celino. Yeah, I just. I had forgotten.

[Bill Simmons]

I forgot. I hadn't seen it in nine or 10 years.

[Chris Ryan]

I remember that there was an alleyway shooting, like where Redford thinks somebody is walking towards him and then they get killed, but I couldn't remember.

[Bill Simmons]

There's something every 10 years club.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Usual suspect.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Another good example. The more details you forget, the more fun it is to revisit. My hottest take is, even though it's his only nomination, this wouldn't make my top ten performances for Redford. And I think he's better in many other movies. And it's weird that he was never acknowledged as a great actor because he's. He's great in a lot of ways.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you think of the example of the. I can't believe he wasn't nominated.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Three Days of the Condor, to me is one where it's like, that's a really tough performance. And he's like. He's a guy. He's like a. If you compare what he does versus Beatty in the Parallax View, Beatty is like, incoherent. That's a super cool movie. But the performance that Newman gives, that Redford gives is so interesting in that movie. Plus, he's iconic in the natural stuff like that. That. How did he not get recognized for those kinds of movies? And I love him in this, and I think he's really fun. I just think he's a little too old and Newman is a little too young. And so him being like the kid.

[Chris Ryan]

He's supposed to be 19, and Newman's supposed to be in his.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the whole. Redford did that for most of career, always playing somebody he was 10 years old to play. You know, rewatching all the presidents. He's amazing in that movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Another one he would have been great for, so.

[Bill Simmons]

But unfortunately, that was like the most load. I guess he probably could have took Giancarlo Giannini's spot. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Was that for Seven Beauties?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he was so good in that movie that. That one long scene when he calls. He calls Kenneth Gaul, whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

He's doing the little.

[Bill Simmons]

But then the other guy calls and then he has to put the guy on hold and it's just all one shot and it's like seven minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that I have a wife and a child and a dog and a cat.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's fucking crushing it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

One nomination is weird.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a tough one, though, because, like, we do this with sports sometimes when somebody only WINS however many MVPs, and we're like, how did that happen? Like, Kobe. They do this with Kobe, and it's like, well, go through, because there's probably one more he should have won. But other than that, I mean, Embiid.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

How did he only win one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, what I'm gonna do with Emi. My hottest take. So there's a setup for this. There's a story about Newman and Redford drove Porsches and love them. They're both big car guys, and they became, like, lifelong friends. Like, they loved each other. They actually, like, looked for a third movie forever. Never found it. At one point, they lived, like, a mile from each other in Connecticut, and they were like, legitimate boys. And one day, Newman stole Redford's Porsche on the set and hid the car and made Redford think someone stole it. And then it was revealed that, no, no, here it is. Aha. Big laugh. He also had all these pranks with George Roy Hill that went back and forth and led to him sawing George Roy Hill's desk in half. And then he basically won the pranks.

[Chris Ryan]

Did Clooney get all his prank shit from these guys?

[Bill Simmons]

This is my hottest take. Where did we go wrong? Where pranks stopped being cool and just became fucking weird. Because in the 70s, everyone had a great time with pranks, but it would be workplace harassment. And now it feels like, yeah, it's workplace harassment or somebody trying too hard.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

As you know, my active favorite current meme by far is utter woke nonsense. And I share that meme as often as I can. And being anti prank is utter woke nonsense in my mind.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, if CR snuck in your house and stole all of your Blu Rays.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That would take a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, he stole, stole, like, whatever he thought your favorite.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Oh, my grails.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And you just lost your mind. And then it was like, no, I actually have them. You'd be like, you fucking psycho. Why'd you do that? Yeah, Something shifted with pranks.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I would call the police and tell them that I was robbed.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know whether the Internet changed the tenor of pranks or was Ashton Kutcher's punked when he made Justin Timberlake cry that day.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But somewhere between punk and now pranks stop being cool.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You're not a big prank guy.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. I think that would be the level of, like, I would have a hard time lying, like, doing. Pulling off a prank. But I do find it interesting, the idea of, like, I think we're all just worried about, like, if I just sawed a desk in half at Spotify, would I just immediately, like, not have access to slack?

[Bill Simmons]

You know, like, just saw Jeff Chow's desk in half. Like, what. What happened to Sarah? I was playing a prank.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Casting what ifs. Jack Nicholson offered the lead role, turned it down. His quote afterwards was, I had enough business acumen to know this thing was going to be a huge hit. But Chinatown and the Last Detail were more interesting films to me. Just sucking up the show.

[Chris Ryan]

It all worked out.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's hard to argue at that point. I do think he would have crushed this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the kind of movie I wish he had made in the 70s or 80s that he just didn't.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He just has so much native charm. He would have been great.

[Bill Simmons]

Sterling Hayden turned down the role of Doyle. Didn't want to shave his beard off. Richard Boone. We are going like, yeah, deep, deep back, best. That guy. Word. It's got to be Jack Kehoe. I think we're probably the only three people who know he's Jack Kehoe, Right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. The only other candidate I had was Charles Deercop, who's Lonigan's bodyguard, Floyd.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the guy who never talks.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I have him in a later. The guy with the squish nose. I love that guy.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That guy's great. He's in Butch County Cassidy.

[Chris Ryan]

And the guy who's like, on the putting green with him, he's like, if this guy sees me.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

So Jack Keough is that guy from Midnight Run to me.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I gotta say, I didn't officially know his name until I researched this. So maybe I better go get some donuts.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The only other guy is. Is Harold Gould as Kid Twist, who is the guy from the Golden Girls to me. Oh, yeah, he was on. He was. And he. Was he on Mod? He was on another show in the 70s as well. But I knew him as a guy from Golden Girls.

[Bill Simmons]

Better go get us some donuts. Dion Waiter's award.

[Chris Ryan]

That's great news.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack Lonigan's henchman. We'd mention him. Luther. Basically two scenes. Selena the assassin. Eileen Brennan's eligible and I really like her in this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't think she's in too much of it?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe. Maybe she is. So the answer is probably the henchman.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

Who doesn't, I don't think have a speaking lung.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I wanted to put up Dana Elkar as the FBI agent.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah. Hulk.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I feel like, he's really good because when you first meet him, you totally buy him. As the movie is really good at selling you. On the FBI's thing where it's like, of course the FBI would be set up in this, like, abandoned warehouse. That's just what the FBI does. But then, in fact, you see that it's actually easier to set up a false.

[Chris Ryan]

And Gondorf says in the beginning, like, the feds are on to me and all that stuff.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think my vote goes to the henchmen.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he does. He has no role and no lines and somehow stands out even when he's behind Newman in the poker scene. And he's just got that look on his face. It's just. I think it's really hard to stand out with no lines. Recasting couch Director City. Can I offer you Jane Alexander as Selena, the assassin?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Just a few years before all the President's been.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Half asserted Research Hill really wanted this to feel like the 1930s. Watched a bunch of gangster films and realized none of them had extras. And that's why this movie, the street scene.

[Chris Ryan]

That's why Paul thought it was claustrophobic.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I thought was really interesting because this movie really didn't need extras. But now if they made it, it'd be like gangs in New York. There's just people everywhere.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That is interesting. I mean, it never really bothered me. It never occurred to me. Why is this not bustling Chicago the way I'd hoped? It feels manufactured on purpose.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of the cars in this movie were real period cars.

[Chris Ryan]

And Tony Bill got a lot of them. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

The producer found some of them. Snyder rejects Billy's drink by pouring it on her hand. And it was an accident. And they improv that. And Eileen Brennan was annoyed. There you go. The movies filmed in the diner is the same diner that they use for Back to the future. When Marty McFly meets his father and calls Doc Brown. Because it's right on that Universal lot, which I don't know if you've ever been to. I have, but it's pretty cool. Like, it's.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a great tour.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Redford had a broken right thumb from a skiing accident and was supposed to be in a cast but didn't have one and is using a lot of stuff that isn't with his right thumb during the movie. Wow.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The Downhill Racer returns.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is what Robert Shaw said about Newman. They all recognized Newman. To be sure everyone would come up and kind of swoon over him. But they didn't in Redford's case. Not at all.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think he's just fucking with Redford?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's a weird story.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he didn't like Redford. Marv Hamish, three Oscars that year. And he's like, I'm going to dominate the next 30 years. Who could possibly come in and take my spot? And John Williams was like, here I come.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So Marv's Oscar for this movie is a weird one because it's best scoring adapted.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is adapting Scott Joplin's music.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Which is not something that exists anymore. And you don't hear about that. In fact, if you're adapting previously used music, you are ineligible for the best score Oscars.

[Bill Simmons]

Now. He's like, what if it goes da da da da da da? They're like, yeah, Marv, crank that out.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I did like that tidbit that Ward said where he thought this was. Should be like a 1930s Chicago blues movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, he wanted.

[Chris Ryan]

And that hooker grown up with, like, black friends.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And that. That George Roy Hill was like, actually, no, it's. It's ragtime music. That's what we should be playing. Even though it takes. You know, that music was popular 20 years before this movie takes place.

[Bill Simmons]

Julia Phillips, first woman to be nominated for and win the Academy Award as a producer for Best Picture.

[Chris Ryan]

She has a great.

[Bill Simmons]

And wrote a book.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And she has a great anecdote about if you don't. Everybody negotiated the font or the thickness of their name in the credit, except for the producers. And it wound up being like, very, very thin. So it just seems like everybody else is more important than them.

[Bill Simmons]

And then she tried to snort the font.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Redford gotta laugh out of how.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Newman. Newman and Redford had one issue, according to Julia Phillips, because Redford was always late. He was at least 40 minutes to an hour late every day on the set, which was apparently a Redford thing for his whole career. And she said one day Newman tore him apart for it. Paul was the bigger star. And he said something like, what are you, a movie star? And then Redford started showing up just 20 minutes late instead of 40.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think Redford was doing?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Power move.

[Bill Simmons]

Julia said it was a psychological flaw. A compulsion to not be on time comes with the mantle of being a star. I did a film with Steve McQueen. Same thing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Power move.

[Chris Ryan]

You like it?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Maybe I'll pick it up going forward.

[Bill Simmons]

Sean shows up at 4 o' clock for our rewatch.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

We just finished taping. I'm here now. Apex Mountain, Newman. No, no, I don't know when it was, but it wasn't this.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Cool Hand Luke.

[Bill Simmons]

It's somewhere in the 60s, mid-60s.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Mid-60s.

[Bill Simmons]

Redford, I think.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Because this sets up and then this.

[Bill Simmons]

70S run probably wrapped up 72, 73. I think this is like the specific moment where he could do whatever the fuck he wanted.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, I call the shots on what I. What I make.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll work with who I want. I'll get the. I'm the first call.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Way we were and this movie, same year. They're both two of the ten biggest movies of the year. And he's nominated for an Academy Award.

[Bill Simmons]

This would be a good championship belt to figure out is first call. Who had the first call championship belt. Redford is now after this thing. First call for like, I would say three, four years.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think DiCaprio is still first callers? You first call for a certain kind of movie?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

No, I think he's held the belt for. For 25 years.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Chalamet's first call now, I don't.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I don't think so. I don't. Timothy. There's no proof that he can open a movie by himself.

[Bill Simmons]

But Leo's in his 50s now.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He's 50. And we're now getting like a real tough test of whether or not he still can. But Killers of the Flower Moon, which is like four hours long, made over $150 million worldwide. Like, that's crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

And everybody knew it was going to be on streaming.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think Leo is still first call?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I do.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the Heat too thing is remarkable because I think it was just like this movie literally can't happen unless he does it, if he's doing it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And it's been true since Titanic that he's had that belt that's almost. What is that, 28 years.

[Chris Ryan]

That's how Blood diamond got made.

[Bill Simmons]

You think Brad Pitt ever, Ever?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's how Body of Lies got made.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't think Brad Pitt ever grabbed it for a split second?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Not really. I mean, Brad F1 is Brad Pitt's biggest movie of all time.

[Bill Simmons]

So Leo's had it since.

[Chris Ryan]

Brad Pitt makes a lot of weird movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be a good podcast. It's probably more fun in the 70s, 80s.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The 70s and 80s, I think, is a lot of fun because you've got Schwarzenegger and Stallone and you've got those battles. You got Bruce Willis you got Murphy, you know, got so many people. But I think Leo has so thoroughly dominated because he's also been able to play anywhere from 20 to 50 in that time.

[Chris Ryan]

And he was ascendant right when Cruz became All I Do is Mission Impossible. And like, weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Harrison Ford got it after Witness. I think in 84 he had it. And then Costner came on his corner a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

But yeah, Hanks probably has it for a minute.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no question.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The 93 to 90.

[Sean Fennessey]

He.

[Bill Simmons]

He kind of took it from Denzel.

[Chris Ryan]

I think still does to some extent have it or have had had it. You ever shaking your head?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he ever completely had it, but he.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He did have the thing where you had a lot of scripts that were written for white guys and then they would den either Denzel got his hands on it or some agent was like, what if it was Denzel? And then they would have to refashion the entire movie around him. Which is a really specific kind of power. But not the same as the Alonzo.

[Chris Ryan]

Originally white.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It was originally their flipped roles. It was going to be Ethan Hawke.

[Bill Simmons]

That was Eddie Murphy with Beverly Hills Cop.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Was written for Stallone. Well, anyway, Redford, I think, grabbed first call.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Is it also Apex Mountain for George Roy Hill?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it is because he wins best director now. He has this in Butch. He can do whatever the he wants after that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He has Waldo Pepper after this.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Scott Joplin.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, probably.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think a lot of people knew ragtime music before this. Not a ton of people.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And marvelous. Marv Hamlisch.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Eileen Brennan.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I always say Clue. I love her and Clue. She's amazing in Last Picture Show.

[Bill Simmons]

It's weird. I would say Private Benjamin.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Great in that too, because she nominated for that.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she might have been awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

You might be right. Which I guess that would probably be it. She really just, like, walks up and down a hallway in the Sting. She's incredible, but she doesn't.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

She just has great presence. She's a good screen star.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also awesome. Every time she. She leaves a room, Newman, like, stares at the door for like a beat.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's his soulmate.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She has a very 1930s kind of face and look, too.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

She's a good fit for them, though. The Madam in 1930.

[Bill Simmons]

1930S Chicago movies.

[Chris Ryan]

More than Untouchables, right?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

The Public Enemy, probably Untouchables.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Madams with a Heart of Gold? I don't know. Pull Your list out of your pocket. Who's on there?

[Chris Ryan]

Madams of the Heart of Gold. My unmade Christie Canyon miniseries.

[Bill Simmons]

So the. Here was an Apex mountain. Schlitz in the 1930s was apparently by far the biggest beer in the world.

[Chris Ryan]

Did it have a. I wonder if it had a 70s pop after this, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Might have.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember there were a lot of Schlitz commercials in the 70s for sports. It was like the last hurrah, especially for Bruins games.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Schlitz is still. They still make Schlitz.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah, they do.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, by the time I was in college, Schlitz was like, we only have 10 bucks.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's get a case of Schlitz.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's get a case.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I feel like Schmidt's gay. The snl, who's based on Schlitz, kind of, like, torpedoed Schlitz a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably do Robert Shaw. No con movies, I think.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because certainly the most successful one.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's not the one that I want. I would go to first to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

A con movie, but it kind of.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Created the genre, kind of invented.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then. Yeah, that's it. Cruiser. Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Cruise.

[Bill Simmons]

For which part?

[Chris Ryan]

For Hooker.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

See, this is my answer. It's Cruise and Hanks.

[Sean Fennessey]

This is.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

This would be the perfect Cruise and.

[Chris Ryan]

Hanks movie, but using two timelines.

[Sean Fennessey]

Lines.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanks is Gandalf.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Hanks is Gandalf and. And Tom Cruise's Frodo. And they have to return the ring to. To. To Mordor.

[Chris Ryan]

And Lonigan is. Put it in the volcano is Sauron.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

So you have Hanks as Newman and Cruz is Johnny Hooker. And what year is this? Like 1998.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Late 90s.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's answer. Our first tie for Cruise and Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Hanks is older than Cruz in real life.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yes. I want to say hanks is like, 68.

[Chris Ryan]

Is he?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And Cruz is 60, right? Is that right?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought Cruz was older.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought Cruz is older than 60.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's look it up. Cruz is at least 60. Hanks was doing Tom Cruise is 63. Hanks is at least 67. 68. Because he was in Bosom Buddies in, like, 1980.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Tom Hanks is 69.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Okay. Wow.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

So they're. They're actually. I mean, I think Newman and redford were like, 10 or 11 years apart.

[Bill Simmons]

So I thought that works. Scorsese or Spielberg?

[Chris Ryan]

I have Scorsese for the grit and Spielberg for the, like, wonder of the movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Should they have Made this movie together.

[Chris Ryan]

Another tie.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think this is Scorsese.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, there's something, There's a lot more.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Stabbing, but there's something very winning about the tone that George Roy Hill can, can hit. That's. I feel like only Spielberg knows that. Spielberg, you know, he does movie magic when the movie's over your life.

[Bill Simmons]

Although Spielberg did catch. No, no, he didn't do Catch me if you can.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He did.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he did.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He did.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it would also be Spielberg, I think, would be adept on the Universal backlot, you know.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

For sure. He wants to be in Chicago.

[Bill Simmons]

If he did it, it would have had the feel of Catch me if.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You can, which is a great movie.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Clearly, Lonergan with some Irish accent would have been awesome.

[Sean Fennessey]

Him.

[Bill Simmons]

Pick a dance. Some poker missteps, guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do it. Tell us all about it.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some splash in the plot. Pot out of order. I thought the calls were off.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't think Lon could be like, I will splash the pot.

[Sean Fennessey]

I want.

[Bill Simmons]

They're not going in order.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I, I, I, I have a related picking n about the game, which is if, what the conductors is back there for the whole game. He's the bank who's taking care of the train. It's like, I do.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like a concierge guy.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think he's the conductor, but I think he.

[Chris Ryan]

No, he's like ticket taking.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Isn't he, Isn't that the whole thing? Is the conductor.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought he was a conductor, but he obviously had an assistant conductor.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, slacking.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Just something's off about the rhythm of it. I think more people are calling, checking.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know, that's. But I, I like the way that Gondorf bullies everybody at the table.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a good strategy.

[Craig]

I have.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Keep pushing the action.

[Chris Ryan]

Has had dudes killed. I think he notices there are no entry or exit wounds on Hooker.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Okay, that's good. I have. Does Lonergan really have no way of checking whether or not there's a New Hampshire horse race? Like, these are obviously fake horse races, right?

[Chris Ryan]

No, they're real horse races.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But, like, is it, like, would he not look in the newspaper the next day to confirm the results of the race? Like, there's so many things. Like, if you go into the cons, you have to assume that Lonergan is like, okay, I guess I got worked and accepts it.

[Sean Fennessey]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

There were newspapers in 1936.

[Chris Ryan]

Ray Walston's reading a Real wire, isn't he? Like, they are real races or No.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I thought they were imagined because they're controlling the action.

[Chris Ryan]

But he's like, oh, we can't use this one. It's four to one. We can't use this one. It's six to like.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought they made up the races.

[Chris Ryan]

Because Lonan is going to do tough one for us. Lonigan's going to do the second bet when he's like, I, I need to do another small bet before I do the big bet. And they're like, we don't have a horse that comes in. Like, if this horse hits, we're going to get cleaned out. So we have to basically stall him and make it so that he can't place his bet. I think that's because they're taking real results so that the next day Lonigan will see blue note 1, you know, but it's just delayed. I, I, but I don't understand how they have like the whole fake walls, the fake like wiretapping thing with twist. So it is, it is a complicated element of it. But I always think they were real races. And then that would be the kiss off would be like, he's like, I guess I just placed the wrong bet. And then the FBI read it right.

[Bill Simmons]

Picking it. Eileen Brennan's job. So running a whorehouse day to day.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But also available for topper friends with elaborate con artist scams.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think madam, basically Travis Hunter, she can play offense and defense.

[Chris Ryan]

A.m. p. M. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think you have flexible hours.

[Bill Simmons]

You need a good number two at the whorehouse.

[Chris Ryan]

I also feel like the way that life works in that world is that you are up, up all night long and then like you sleep from like 9am to 3pm it's like bartending.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

As I'm working as a madam or.

[Chris Ryan]

Like as a con man.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So not a lot of like, hey, I'm just out here getting some lunch errands done.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's my biggest one. How many extras in the betting parlor? Like 30.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

At least they're all in on the conjo.

[Chris Ryan]

He said that he needs at least 20 guys.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah. So what percentage do they get from the take? The final take?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Let's say splitting. I don't know what. Everybody gets 1% of 500 grand.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And then it's a good day's work.

[Bill Simmons]

Then the other guys are split in half. Not one of these people are a threat to just be like, I bet I could make more if I go tell Lon again, this is going on.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a good, good question.

[Bill Simmons]

You're just trusting these 30 people in the con world. Not one of them is going to scam you.

[Chris Ryan]

I think IMDb did the math words. If this takes place in the 1930s, $500,000 would be adjusted for inflation. $9.2 million in 2020.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a lot of money to be walking around with.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I had. I did the same thing. It was almost 11 million, they said. Which is less than Dorian Finney Smith's going to make on the Rockets this year.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Do you see?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I did Fred.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

RIP Sequel prequel. Prestige TV out by cast are untouchable. Maybe Prestige. Are you interested?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm interested in. In them on the run.

[Bill Simmons]

I would be interested in from Lonigan. Like a like so sequel.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, on Lonigan. Also like the temptation of pulling something again knowing that they have like this, this skill, you know, this level of skill.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I wrote down Prestige tv. I feel like a burn notice style show every week. Gondorf and Hooker running scam.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What about Gandalf and.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Gandalf and Frodo running scams.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Scammer.

[Chris Ryan]

After you get the ring, what do you do next? Seriously, con guys now.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What? Like an existential drama? Sort of like Sopranos, but in the world. Short Hobbit.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Middle Earth.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell Baron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm. I was imagining Long Legs in a while guys. He would have loved to come a good movie. What do you have CR Mad Dog.

[Chris Ryan]

Hanging out in the. In the Wired.

[Sean Fennessey]

The.

[Chris Ryan]

The horse race parlor. Be like Mike, everybody knows Blue Notes never done much. He's just had to round out the field. Mike, what's Lanigan doing? Bed and fourth and now cancer. I don't even know if that's a good mad dog.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But Mike and the dog, whenever they would talk about horse racing, immediately turn the channel. Yeah, immediately turn it off.

[Bill Simmons]

Mike, this Blue Note has want to race it in eight months. There's Lon just betting on him. Something's fishy bike. I. I thought for sure you're gonna do Wayne Jenkins on that one.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'm saving him.

[Bill Simmons]

God damn.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I feel like the guy who would crush in this environment is Byron Mayo. You've got, you've got scams. You've got, you've got. You know.

[Bill Simmons]

Selena, I know you're an assassin, but there's something lingering in those pants. Just want to ask her who gets it. It's the movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You think Best Picture.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean, if. Well, George Roy Hill.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I wrote George Roy Hill.

[Chris Ryan]

He got it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

He got it. The movie is tough because of its competition in and of itself.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good point. So if we're doing just one Oscar.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Hamlisch.

[Bill Simmons]

I have it.

[Chris Ryan]

I had Ward.

[Bill Simmons]

Marv. Ham.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Ward.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Because they said that after the couple of drafts, like, once they changed the amount.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Newman was in it. It. I think Newman says they didn't change four words. Shooting it.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's a good.

[Bill Simmons]

Also widely considered one of the great scripts.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Like that aspiring screenwriter study and the structure of it. Everything. Yeah, I like that. That's good.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. We did everything.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think I got one.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

What was Doyle's handicap?

[Chris Ryan]

Golfing? Well, he's putting in like, forest in the. Like, there is no role to the. To those greens. So I don't know what 1930s his handicap was.

[Bill Simmons]

His handball injury from the limps when he was playing handball and he tumbled over.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he cheated a lot.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of kicking the ball out of the rough.

[Sean Fennessey]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

This isn't an ob.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Look, I found my ball.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Had that kind of crazy drunk Irish strength, though.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd probably say like a 15.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Big hitter.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Big hitter. Probably swore on the course, though.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, it's not getting as much distance.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Short game. A little off, though, right? Kind of kicking the ball.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? I went with all the poker chips from the poker scene. It would be really impressive.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I said Henry's playing cards.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Something from the poker, I think would be the move. The wallet's interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Counterfeit money in there.

[Chris Ryan]

I would be. I think I would feel like my life amounted to something if I could ever pull off overall tank top fedoras the way that Paul Newman does when he's going through, like, how they're going to set up Lonigan and he's just rocking overalls.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Will I ever see you in a tank top like that?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't dream yourself out. Cr. Coach Fin or. Best life lesson. Revenge is for suckers.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I wrote you have to keep this con even. Keep this con even. After you take his money, he can't know you took him. Him just like, basically never give away the game.

[Chris Ryan]

I have the Lonigan line where he's talking to Floyd on the putting green. Take a look at that face, Floyd. Because if he ever finds out I can be beat by one lousy grifter, I'll have to kill him and every other hood who wants to muscle it on my Chicago operation. It's kind of how you pod, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

That's how I feel. I also. I wrote down, I don't know enough about killing to kill him.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

I just thought it was a good line. David S. Ward.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Good stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Cranking it. What do we have left? We have double feature. Double feature. What do you got? Butch and Sundays Go Double Con. Do focus.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oceans 11.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You could do the hot rock, too, because it's a kind of like Redford style right around the same time, kind of similarly breezy and fun. And there's a, you know, bank heist that is really cool.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you want to give people a hint of what the next Redford and Redford month is?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we got to do who won the movie first.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Newman.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I think it's Redford because Redford walks out smelling like gold in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's Redford. Tiffany.

[Sean Fennessey]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I think there's a George Roy Hill case, though, to have this. And Butch.

[Chris Ryan]

You wish they made more movies together, or are you glad that they went two for two? Perfect.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Newman and Redford.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Hill.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I was thinking about this because there's this weird stretch with both guys post slap shot for Newman, and then Redford for, like, three years doesn't really do anything, and then does Electric Horseman with Jane Fonda, which is one of the weirdest star movies.

[Chris Ryan]

He falls into a weird run. I guess probably when he starts to get more involved in, like, his causes and charities or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

But then he starts doing like he does. He directs. He does Brubaker. He does the Natural. There's some space from 78 to 84 where I felt like that could have been detectives or something.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

See, I was gonna say a little bit older, because I think if. Let's say you just take these movies off the board completely for each of the three of them. Take Legal Eagles out. We don't need it. Take Wesley.

[Bill Simmons]

Loves that movie.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Take Fat man and Little Boy out from Newman. We don't need it. We have Oppenheimer now. We don't need that movie. And take out Funny Farm, which is George Roy Hill's last movie. So you've got 1987.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on a second. Did you just Extinguish Funny Farm.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I deleted it. I deleted it from culture.

[Bill Simmons]

Horrible take.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Funny Farm's great.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It is not great.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It is not great. Funny Farm's amazing that this is an age gap thing.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Van Lathan loves that movie too. He's been pushing for it.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't remember the last time I saw Funny Farm. Chevy Chase.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You would rather have Funny Farm over a reunion of Redford and Newman?

[Bill Simmons]

Why can't I have Funny Farm and the reunion? Why do I have to?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Because George Roy Hill makes World According to Garp, which I know you love.

[Bill Simmons]

But somewhere in 85, 86, they could have all done a movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they could.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm with you on Legal Eagles. I would get rid of.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Get rid of that.

[Chris Ryan]

They could have done something around Color of Money.

[Bill Simmons]

Everybody's minted color of money. Like 87.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about this? Could Newman have been Max Mercy in the Natural?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the thing is, is that the reason why they're so interesting, though, is that Newman doesn't ever want to give an inch. You know what I mean? He doesn't want to be the old guy turning it over to Redford. I. I just don't think he would play like that. That part in the Natural.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That's a weird time for Redford. His 80s are kind of funky.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we put both guys in Top Gun?

[Sean Fennessey]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

One of them is the Tom Scarrett part, and then we just create another one for.

[Chris Ryan]

Would be an awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

There. Paul Newman would have been amazing.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It just never happened.

[Chris Ryan]

Overqualified for Viper.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's something where, like, they're aging detectives in the 80s and it's. There's.

[Sean Fennessey]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

With the point of life. Both of them were. Is there probably would have been some sort of, like, moral.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Let's just put them in Black Rain.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, or I could have seen Redford showing up in something like Nobody's Fool.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Oh, for sure.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And he made some of his own versions of movies like that.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But I think Newman had a ultimately more interesting final 10 years. But there are a couple of, like, late period references you like.

[Bill Simmons]

All is Lost, though.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

All is Lost is great. Old man and the Gun is great, but, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Old man and the Gun was supposed to be Newman and he was too old at that point.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But Redford is perfect for it. I mean, he's perfect in that.

[Chris Ryan]

Weren't you tweeting about Company? We keep company. You keep Every day. And then Bill was like, what are you Doing?

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, Right before he died, I was like.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like right as the football.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Started, I was just on YouTube, just doing my thing, just looking at stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, to end the pod, producer Craig Carlbeck usually lets us know what he thought of the movie. He's not here today because big road trip for the fantasy football show. But he sat in on the whole pod. And now we're going to get your thoughts. What were your thoughts?

[Craig]

So I have seen the Sting. I saw it 10 years ago in college. And so you guys saying that you should see it every 10, 10 years, I think really rang true because I didn't. I forgot about the FBI thing being fake or being a part of the con. And I forgot about Seleno in the diner. I thought that was just a relationship that hooker was having. So it completely worked on me. But I loved it 10 years ago. I loved it even more now. For me, the best movies, the movies that I like the most are the ones that are that succeed commercially and critically. They kind of like hit that perfect middle. And I think this is the best example of that. I love that the whole thing's filmed on a set. Like, you can tell the whole time. But to me, it just proves that if. If you have, like, talented people and a good script, like, you can make anything work. If this whole movie is just like five people running around a set in a backlot and it looks. It looks like a painting. It looks like an Edward Hopper painting.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's.

[Chris Ryan]

It's.

[Craig]

It's unbelievable.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I.

[Craig]

It's pretty impressive to me how cinematic this movie feels, considering most of it is just in tiny little rooms and fake sets that you can clearly feel ourselves.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, take that, Pauline.

[Chris Ryan]

Kill the president of cinema is way.

[Bill Simmons]

Too claustrophobic for Craig.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Craig]

No, no, this movie's amaz.

[Bill Simmons]

I.

[Craig]

The dialogue, I. You guys touched on it a little bit, but I realized watching this movie, there are like 15, 20 to 30, 30 phrases that I just don't know what they're saying without context. Like, I don't know if it's like every hundred years, jargon resets, but I wrote down a couple lines here of things that people say. I'm going to read them. Okay, Dookie, we're setting up a wire store on the north side. I'm going to need a 20 man boost right away. These men have got to be Quill and everything will be Jake.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I love that.

[Craig]

I just know when he's gonna run his chum, make his sting get the pinch. I hear the mark is some big New York wheel. Like that could be Gen Z slang.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I have no idea what that means.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

You know what I mean? That was the Skibidi Toilet slays.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What is. What do we think Wheel is like somebody with money.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

I guess like a whale.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, like a whale high roller.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

But like, I didn't.

[Craig]

I've never heard Quill. These men have to be Quill and everything is going to be Jake.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah. They have to be perfect.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also like plenty of lines that you already hard. You can decipher them. But the way that they are delivered is so good. Like when the guy who sets up the wire store for them and they're like, you want a flat rate or percentage? And he's like, who's the mark? And they're like, doyle on again. He's like, flat rate.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Yeah, love that part.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I miss the nicknames too. I don't. I just don't think we're good at nicknames in the same way anymore.

[Sean Fennessey]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Like if Justin Fields was jumping Justin Fields or something, you would just have more confidence in them.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Flopping Justin Fields.

[Chris Ryan]

Ohio State.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Who was the guy giving out suits when he was recruiting them to be a part of the con team?

[Chris Ryan]

Was it Twist?

[Sean Fennessey]

Twist.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Twist.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I love that.

[Chris Ryan]

If you.

[Craig]

If you made it, you got a suit.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

That was cool, kid. Twist.

[Craig]

Go pick yourself out of suit.

[Bill Simmons]

Like you called Danny Kelly DK even. That was an exciting name. But think if you had named him Twist.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, but you got to be careful because remember their show used to be called the Dantesy Football Podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, true.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Didn't hang.

[Craig]

One of the worst decisions we've ever had at the Ringer Football Podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta be honest. I think I was involved in the decision.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Well, you were the. You're the author of the show in some ways. So it's okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It was a double terrible idea because it was a terrible name. But it also then you couldn't search for fantasy as you search for psy.

[Craig]

It would autocorrect you away from fantasy every time.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't listen. Even the greats can't bat a thousand.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Even Gondorf missed, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

And Gandalf.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

And Gandalf.

[Bill Simmons]

What is the Redford movie you're hoping we do the most on Redford Month? Greg Condor.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, yeah, Condor.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Sick.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because it would have been all the.

[Craig]

President's Men already done that.

[Bill Simmons]

The only problem with Condor is if.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Fay Dun away is throwing 140 and.

[Chris Ryan]

That she gets kidnapped and slapped.

[Bill Simmons]

The only problem is we We. We do need it for 70s conspiracy movie month. And we just. Other guys would have to step up.

[Chris Ryan]

It's time to step up. Warren Beatty.

[Craig]

Be like, like, like Trayon Henderson after Randre's two phones.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing. After we waver. Andre, it's like Trayvon's got to step up now. So if we lose Condor.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're doing really, like.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is Black Sunday ready? Like, it's one of those.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Great question, but we could return to Robert Shaw with Black Sunday, one of the final performances.

[Bill Simmons]

So if you. If we waste the Condor chip, it's.

[Chris Ryan]

You have to decide, is it Redford or conspiracy? What matters more to you?

[Bill Simmons]

Or could you have both? And they both matter equally, but they.

[Chris Ryan]

Could layer onto each other. The last Redford could be the first.

[Craig]

Oh, that's good. It's like how Spotify songs now blend into one another.

[Bill Simmons]

We can do that. Interesting. Goes right into Conspiracy month.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like that idea.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

It's a nice way to spend a chilly November with a paranoid thriller.

[Bill Simmons]

Good idea, Craig. Safe travels. Thanks to Gehaz.

[Chris Ryan]

Enjoy.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks to Ronick. You can watch all of these on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel and Redford Month. Four left. Maybe it'll bleed into 70s Conspiracy Month. Really interesting idea. Thanks, Sierra. Thanks, Sean.

[Sean Fennessey]

Thanks, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Hello, Miami.

[Sean Fennessey]

Amigos.

[Bill Simmons]

Vivimos parofres paquetes de buello.

[Sean Fennessey]

Yo tel pormenos expedia.

[Chris Ryan (CR)]

Vivimos paraviajar.

[Bill Simmons]

Men need a store that has the right thing for their thing. Like a Kenneth Cole suit made with Shellflex fabric to keep them cool at their cousin in law's third wedding in the middle of July. Whatever the thing, Men's Wearhouse has the clothes for it. Love the way you look. Men's warehouse.