‘Tin Cup’ With Bill Simmons, Joe House, and Craig Horlbeck

Summary

The Rewatchables Podcast: “Tin Cup” (1996)

Hosts: Bill Simmons, Joe House, Craig Horlbeck, with special guest/executive producer Jack O’Connell
Release Date: September 16, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode marks the 399th movie covered on 'The Rewatchables'. Bill Simmons, Joe House, Craig Horlbeck, and guest Jack O’Connell revisit Ron Shelton’s Tin Cup—the flawed but beloved 1996 golf rom-com starring Kevin Costner, Rene Russo, Don Johnson, and Cheech Marin. The conversation delves deep into sports movie conventions, golf authenticity, Costner’s GOAT status in sports movies, the famously divisive ending, 1996’s importance in golf, and the unique marriage of romance and sport in the film.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Ron Shelton Sports Movie Trifecta

• Tin Cup capped Shelton’s unofficial trilogy after Bull Durham and White Men Can’t Jump.

  "The key in making a sports movie is that you have to make it accessible to a person who hates the sport. But you also have to make the guy who knows the sport inside out say they got it right." —Bill Simmons [01:51]

• The panel lauds how Tin Cup meets these goals, especially in golf authenticity (“enough of the ring of truthiness,” House [02:44]).

2. Dual Nature—Sports Movie Meets Rom-Com

• The hosts note that Tin Cup is two movies: a meandering rom-com for the first half, a golf epic in the second.
• The late-90s saw the sports-movie/romantic-comedy hybrid boom (e.g., Jerry Maguire, Happy Gilmore) tailored for a broad audience.

3. The Ending: Is Roy McAvoy a Choke Artist or a Folk Hero?

• The refusal to “lay up” rather than play it safe on the final hole remains a lightning rod.
• Bill recalls:

  “The decision not to lay up on the last hole—the first time you see it, I just remember being enraged in the theater.” [04:13]

• Decades later, the hosts appreciate its boldness, “a radical decision to have him not win…and to play it how they did” (Simmons [05:00]), seeing it now as a love letter to the caprice and suffering of golf rather than a by-the-numbers triumph.
• Craig:

  “It’s the right ending for this movie. It’s the most relatable thing—to be like, can I hit this? Can I hit this 237 with my three wood? Fuck it, I’m gonna go for it.” [06:15]

4. Kevin Costner: Sports Movie G.O.A.T.?

• Costner’s résumé (“American Flyers”, Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, For Love of the Game, “Draft Day”) is unmatched.
• Bill:

  “Is Kevin Costner, unequivocally the sports movie GOAT? Is it just like a rap?” [10:01]

• The crew agrees; other actors are distant seconds.

5. Costner’s Golf Credibility

• Costner was not a golfer before Tin Cup, but received extensive coaching from Gary McCord and Peter Kostis, making his on-screen swing “credible” (House [12:25]).
• His swing visibly improves during the movie; by the US Open scenes, there are genuine, uncut swings.

6. Golf in 1996: A Pivotal Year & Cultural Boom

• Tin Cup, Happy Gilmore, Nick Faldo’s comeback at the Masters, and Tiger Woods turning pro—all converged in '96.
• Bill’s case:

  “Golf is now reset. We have pop culture in place. We had the Nike thing. We’re about to have the boom.” [19:26]

7. Depiction of Golf—The Everyman Angle

• Ron Shelton wanted to make it about blue-collar, public-course golf, not the “nouveau riche” approach (Simmons [21:37]).
• The panel praises the “banter, the galleries, the relatability... all going on during golf,” making it unique for the sports-movie format.

8. Golf Accuracy & Iconic Moments

• The panel dissects the infamous final hole—physics, club distances, ball spin, and crowd reaction, consulting real-life parallels like Greg Norman’s Masters collapse ([45:14–49:40]).
• House and Craig: the depiction of a three wood stopping on a green from 237 is “utterly implausible” ([46:14]).
• The breakdown is both nitpick and loving tribute to the genre.

9. The Rom-Com Side: Russo, Johnson, and the Love Triangle

• Russo’s era-spanning star power is discussed, with pushback from Craig:

  “I texted both of you... one of you is going to need to kind of describe to me the Renee Russo case.” [24:08]

• Bill argues she has unique chemistry with all her co-stars—making her perhaps the ideal '90s romantic lead.
• The trio finds the love triangle “inexplicable” ([29:00]), mocked for its thin motivation (“Why didn’t she just go to Don Johnson to learn to play golf?” [29:58]).

10. Supporting Cast: Don Johnson and Cheech Marin

• Don Johnson’s smooth, plausible tour pro is praised; he “nailed it” (Simmons [27:40]). Brief, almost villainous turn is considered less organic (“They kind of just add that one scene to turn him into a dick” [28:20]).
• Cheech Marin’s sidekick performance is cited as scene-stealing.
• Noted: 35 actual PGA players (and CBS talent like Jim Nantz, Ken Venturi) cameo, adding realism.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Roy’s Catastrophic Finale:

  “Because on the first watch, it’s agonizing. You have no idea this is coming. Every movie you’ve ever watched leads to… and then second time around, you’re like, this is kind of awesome. This guy rocks.” —Craig [52:55]

• On Costner’s Athletic Believability:

  “He just finished Waterworld. … My heart was on the ground.” —Costner quote via Bill [14:22]

• Relatability of Golf:

  “The good thing about golf is it’s a sport you can participate in while drinking.” —Jack O’Connell [08:26]

• True to Golf’s Frustration:

  “All normal golfers, we can relate to this.” —Craig [06:10]

• Sports Sex Parallels:

  “Sex and golf are the two things you don’t have to be good at to enjoy.” —Simmons [32:49]

• The Language of Sports Movies:

  “Greatness courts failure.” —Romeo (paraphrased), cited by Simmons [33:29]

• Legendary Golf Banter:

  “Let the big dog eat…” —Popularized by the film; panel discusses its origin [58:13]

---

Most Rewatchable Scenes [Timestamps]

• Molly’s First Golf Lesson ([36:28]): Poetry, mechanics, and Costner’s charisma on display—“a wonderful introduction to who he is, where she’s coming from” (House).
• Roy Caddies for Sims ([38:06]): The cheat bet with Mickelson, the layup battle, and the famous “13 years on tour, you’re still a pussy.”
• Roy Breaks All His Clubs ([38:53]): Finishing out with a 7-iron—a distinctive sports-movie set piece—ties directly to real tournaments inspired by the movie.
• The US Open Final Round ([44:00–45:13]): The infamous 18th hole meltdown, crowd and TV booth reactions (“the announcer reactions are unbelievable”), and the immortalizing 12.
• The Strip Club and Waffle House Scenes ([62:23]): Both note the working-class vibe the film leans into.

---

1996 in the Movie: Most ‘90s Touchstones

• Infiniti and Nissan sponsorships—rare for golf.
• Roy’s Walkman ([54:38]).
• The mid-’90s golf fashion: pleated pants, leather staff bags, and Fujifilm blimps.
• Timeless CBS coverage—young Jim Nantz ([41:53]) “looks and sounds exactly the same as now” ([41:53]).

---

What’s Aged Well and What Hasn’t

Aged Best

• Golf Banter (“Let the Big Dog Eat”, “Grip it and Rip it”)—possibly originated or popularized by the film ([58:13]).
• Jim Nantz and CBS realism, including the TV-booth perspective ([43:16]).
• The concept of a “blue-collar” golf hero.
• The caddy-player relationship, even as both panel and film admit Cheech’s character is not… actually a good caddy.

Aged Worst

• Some fashion choices (pastel “Miami Vice” golf wear for a Texas driving range pro).
• The extraneous strip club subplot; could have been cut.
• Plausibility nitpicks: the televised local tourney, rapid US Open qualification, final shot physics, and the aftermath of Roy’s US Open collapse.

---

Funniest/Nitpickiest Moments

• The meticulous breakdown of shot distances versus club selection and ball behavior:

  “He hits his seven-iron 220, hits the three-wood 230—should’ve pulled out the seven-iron…” —Craig [47:12]

• Why Roy’s caddy is terrible: breaks Roy’s club, gets him drunk, doesn’t talk him down on the 18th.
• The crowd’s reaction to Roy’s meltdown—should have been “horrified silence.”
• The relationship triangle’s ludicrous setup (“The most inexplicable love triangle in movie history” [29:01]).
• Picking nits: Roy’s ex/strip club owner is 56 when Costner is 40 (“Not plausible,” Jack O’Connell [68:13]); Roy’s quick US Open acceptance.

---

Apex Mountain & Awards

• Costner: Not his all-time apex (“Dances With Wolves” wins) but uncontested as Sports Movie GOAT.
• Cheech Marin: Late-career highlight but animated roles might top it.
• Don Johnson: “Miami Vice” is his peak.
• Seven-iron: This is THE film for the club.
• The quote, “Let the big dog eat”—legacy as “cultural creation.”
• Best non-winning sports movie ending: Rocky I probably edges out Tin Cup, but it’s a gold standard for a defeat that still feels like triumph.

---

Favorite Memorabilia

• The tournament-worn “Tin Cup” hat.
• Roy’s seven iron or three wood, especially if broken.
• The iconic (or dangerous) armadillo.

---

Final Word: Who Won the Movie?

• Jim Nantz, for his timeless presence and impact.
• Ultimately, it’s Costner—the film is a vehicle for his mid-career dominance as everyman athlete and romantic lead.

---

For Newcomers: Why Tin Cup Matters

• Tin Cup is a testament to the strange beauty and agony of golf, filtered through Ron Shelton’s love of sport, romance, and stubbornly proud losers.
• Costner’s flawed, poetic Roy McAvoy is both a running sports-movie joke and a relatable icon for every golfer who’s “gone for it” and blown up.
• The film’s blend of authentic sports detail, comedic romance, and anti-triumph ending make it unique in the genre.

---

“No one’s gonna remember the Open five years from now. They’re gonna remember the 12. It was immortal. I’m like, she’s right.”
—Bill Simmons [52:07]

---

Recommended Double Features

• Caddyshack, Happy Gilmore, or The Thomas Crown Affair for further genre fun.
• For a sharper sports-movie loss: Rocky or Friday Night Lights.

---

Listen for:

• Deep-dive golf technicals you won’t get on another movie podcast.
• Smart, irreverent debate about Hollywood, sports, and the weird, lasting allure of “not laying up.”

---

(Summary compiled directly from the panel’s words, opinions, and tone. Timestamps provided for significant moments and notable quotes.)

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard. Rewatch your favorite horror movies with this perfect drink that's crisp and refreshing but not too sweet. Don't get angry that you already know the twist ending or who dies or in what order. Just slash open Angry Orchard's brand new Halloween thriller pack made in partnership with the Jason universe, featuring killer flavors like Berry Bewitched and Headless Pumpkin. Don't get angry. Get Orchard Find Angry Orchard near you this Halloween season. Angry orchard cider company llc.angry orchard.com please drink responsibly.angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. This episode is brought to you by Paramount. Sylvester Stallone is back as the ultimate kingpin Dwight Manfredi in the original hit series Tulsa King, streaming September 21st exclusively on Paramount. This season, as Dwight's kingdom expands, he faces his most dangerous adversaries in Tulsa yet, forcing him to fight for everything he's built. Stream the new season of Tulsa King Sunday, September 21, exclusively on Paramount Plus. Learn more at paramountplus.com the Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find Fairway rolling whichever House Good golf season. Scotty Scheffer won every tournament. Mark Hubbard won none. Hey, still a good tournament. He's my favorite golfer. I want him to win a tournament.

[Joe House]

Made a nice push.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig Horlbeck. You can find him on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. He has produced this podcast for most of the 399 movies that we've done. This is movie number 399, and we have a special wrinkle, executive producer of today's podcast, Jack O. Yeah, me and House's buddy from college. You've heard him on my podcast many times. You're going to just chime in like Gelman on Regis and Kathy Green.

[Jack O'Connell]

It's a dream come true. I always wanted to be Gelman. It's finally coming true. This is fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

This is going to be an unbelievable rewatch of us. Tin cup is next. Tin Cup, 1996 Kevin Costner. A very, very good sports movie. It's very flawed. It has a controversial ending. Ron Shelton, who did Bull Durham, he did White Man Can't Jump, did a bunch of other movies, then Tin Comp. This is like his big trilogy, he said to Premiere magazine in 1996. The key in making a sports movie is that you have to make it accessible to a person who hates the sport. But you also have to make the guy who knows the sport inside out. Say they got it right. Did they do that House in Tin.

[Joe House]

Cup with golf, I think so there is enough of the ring of truthiness to the, to the way the golf is presented, especially with the infrastructure. The CBS stuff is amazing. I mean, gymnast is, you know, next level. Ken Venturi's next level.

[Bill Simmons]

It's almost like two movies. When we get to the actual US Open, it turns into a different movie and I'm here for it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, it's long enough to be two movies. I don't know why this movie is two hours and 15 minutes, but the last hour, hour is just all US Open, which is fantastic.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought I was the time length Police and Craig is like, you've taken it. You're like the 2.0 version of it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

This movie. There's a lot of bloat. There's a lot we could probably shave off. But the Last hour, hour 15, when they get to the US Open is great. I funnily, I had never seen this movie until two weeks ago before you told me we were doing it. I was on vacation with my in laws and I watched it one night in an Airbnb with my two brothers in law. We love golf. We honestly came away with the movie and we were like, okay, maybe swing and a miss. You know, this is a bogey, double bogey of a film.

[Bill Simmons]

Double bogey.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And then, I mean, I think once I re watching it, upon watching it the second time, I like what I told you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like it way more the second time. It's a different movie because I think.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I thought originally the movie was gonna be a lot more serious. And it's pretty goofy and whimsical and once you kind of know that's coming the second time around, you can kind of sit back, relax, enjoy it. But I had no idea just how ridiculous this movie was going to be going in.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, we'll talk about the 12 now, even though it's in the rewatchable scene category, but the, the, the decision not to lay up on the last hole the first time you see it. I just remember being enraged in the theater. It's like this would never happen. I don't like that they did this. He should have either just eagled it and won or hit it in the water, demanded to drop it there, then hit it again and maybe, maybe knocks it in from there. Some sort of sports movie thing. I think they were intentionally zagging house against what we expected from it. But now, 29 years later, I kind of like it. It's, it's like in its own area of sports movies. That it's such a radical decision to have him not win and to play it the way they did it. I don't mind it. We've had. We. You and I are in our mid-50s now. We've seen a thousand sports movies. This is one of the only ones.

[Joe House]

That zagged big balls on Ron Shelton for sticking to his guns. Because apparently, you know, folks in Hollywood wanted the happy ending. And no less an authority on golf than President Donald Trump accosted Shelton and said to him, hey, you would have made a lot more money if you'd just had the guy win the tournament at the end. That was the entirety of the interaction between Shelton and President Trump.

[Bill Simmons]

But that was not a recent interaction.

[Joe House]

No, no, this is 1996. But he's.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm. You know, I'm sure he probably still feels the same way. The, The. The thing is this. It's really one of those movies. Every time you watch it, there's this alternate sliding doors of what happens if he just eagles and gets the 10 and we have the heroic sports movie inning. What happens if he hits it in the water? You're like, oh, my God, he fucked it up. Oh, my God, he's dropping there. He's. He's melting down. But then he hits it and he wins. What happens if he pars it and we go to a playoff hole? I don't know what the right answer is. All these years later, I still like the 12, but I think there is an alter universe where he just wins the US Open. And maybe it's a better movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's the right ending for this movie. It's also the right ending for golf. All normal golfers, we can relate to this.

[Joe House]

Right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right. It's the most relatable thing to be like, can I hit this? Can I hit this 237 with my three with fuck it, I'm gonna go for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know, so I feel like golf is really good. I think golf is the best sport for a sports movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Because football, basketball, baseball, there's, like, the play and then there's what's going on in between the plays. Golf is fun because you can be talking and listening and there's so much going on just during.

[Bill Simmons]

There's banter, there's galleries.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's the best. There's interactions going on is going to get a bonus.

[Joe House]

I know Kevin Costner is walking around with a Walkman. Yeah, he's out there. I don't think that's legal. But he, you know, they did it. But I like What Craig's describing in terms of that relatability, I mean, under the circumstances, it was preposterous. It's a pre. You know, you. You. You're tied for the lead in the US Open. And, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's why we have Carl Malone, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson, who did win a title. Jacko has a Clyde Drexler glass. But we're all in Honor of Roy McAvoy. Coming up close. No cigar. I guess Robinson eventually won with Tim Duncan, but. Yeah, it's preposterous. It's so preposterous. Well, we'll dive into it when we do the rewatchable scene. But Molly says at one point, this is without a doubt the stupidest, silliest, most idiotic grotesque masquerading as a game that has ever been invented. And Roy says, yes, ma'. Am. That's why I love it. This is why I wanted to make you watch it again and do the pod with us, because it's really a love letter to golf.

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's not about the fancy part of golf. It's about, like, Shelton even talks about this. It's about the dudes who wait at five in the morning to play some public.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's how ridiculous and stupid golf is. But.

[Bill Simmons]

And why do we do it?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, because it's the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you're into it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I love golf. Golf all the time.

[Bill Simmons]

And houses. Like, it's all he cares about.

[Joe House]

Sure. No, I care about Jack.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your relationship to golf?

[Jack O'Connell]

I play a couple times a year. I like the. I like playing in tournaments. There's a couple of tournaments I play in with some guys, and it's like, best ball.

[Bill Simmons]

Like celebrity pro hands.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, sort of, that type of thing. I'm like a hack, but some of my friends are good, But I'll hit a shot or two. And that really kind of gets you into it. Like, you hit one or two good shots around. You're like, I could really play this game. And then I shank one off my foot and I'm like, I really can't play this game. But that's the beauty of it, right?

[Joe House]

With the good one. Does a tuning fork go off in your loins?

[Jack O'Connell]

The good thing about golf is it's a sport you can participate in while drinking. So that's right up my alley. I like that, too. So, you know, you're not going to play basketball and have a couple beers on the bench, but golf, it's part of the game, really.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's a good sports movie inside this movie, but they want it to be a romance too much. That's why there's so much going on outside of it. But just. Just the golf aspect of this movie is really good. The him versus David Sims thing, all of that is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's what's happening, because this is 96. We've. We finished that whole first era sports movies, which we've done a bunch of on the rewatchables. And now we're moving into this new era in the mid-90s of the next level of a sports movie. Because Jerry Maguire comes out the same year as this. Happy Gilmore comes out the same year as this. It's like, all right, we've all done the underdog thing. We've done the Raging Bull, that type of movie. Now what's the sports movie with the Love bowl underdog trying to triumph? But it's also a rom com. It's also something the husband and wife can go to or the boyfriend and girlfriend together. It's a date movie. And there's a lot of these. And there's this, like, renaissance of sports movies right here from, I would say, 95 through 04. And there's a million of them. This is when Varsity Blues, any given Sunday. There's like a bunch that we've already done. So I think that's what they're going for. And it's like there's a Bull Durham. You know, obviously Ron Shelton and Costner did. How do you make Crash Davis different than Roy McAvoy? But it's still Kevin Costner.

[Joe House]

Have you not done Bull Durham on rewatchables?

[Bill Simmons]

Been saving it. It's one of the ones we've saved.

[Joe House]

I wanted to use it as the cheat code for this because I wanted to hear the panel's take on Ron Shelton in advance of this. So I'm into my the Google machine, trying to find the rewatchables.

[Bill Simmons]

Bull Durham hasn't happened yet.

[Joe House]

Hasn't happened yet.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what else hasn't happened? The. Is Kevin Costner, unequivocally the sports movie Goat. Is it just like a rap or do other people have arguments? Here's his. So he does American Flyers, which I thought we did on rewatchables. I just think CR and I have talked about it for so long, I felt like we did it. But really good cycling move in the mid-80s. Bullderum, field of Dreams, Tin cup for Love of the Game, draft day and McFarland USA, which is like secretly not a bad Disney movie, but that's. And he's done some other stuff too. But that's seven sports movies. Different sports, some iconic ones in there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Who is his competition?

[Joe House]

I agree. Who is the other Canada. Right. I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

It, it, it goes sideways fast. You get Den Quaid with breaking away the rookie any given Sunday. Tough enough. Everybody's all American in the Express. Not even close. But solid resume.

[Joe House]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

You should be proud.

[Joe House]

Yeah, very good.

[Bill Simmons]

He also played Dick Vermeil in a movie, I think. Okay. James Earl Jones, Field of Dreams, Bingo, Long Sandlot and Great White Hope. Has four good ones, but he doesn't have the depth. Sandler's in the mix. It's just they're all comedic. But he's Happy Gilmore, Hustle, the Waterboy, Longest Yard remake and Happy Gilmore 2. He's at least like has to be mentioned. The one that falls through the cracks here is Wesley Snipes because he was major league White man can't jump the fan. Undisputed Wildcats play to the bone. He's inside a couple of bad ones. And then our guy, Woody Harrelson. White men can't jump. Kingpin Wildcats. Denzel had a couple. He got game the Hurricane. Remember the Titans, Paul Newman, Matt Damon. But it's funny. It's clearly costar. It's not even an argument. And what's cool about his career, like he shoots a 62 in the US Open in this movie. He pitches a perfect game in Yankee Stadium. He wins the hell in the west in American Flyers. Like he does like some big ass things. But I don't know what is it about Costner? Why was he so believable? He's a good athlete. First of all he's handsome.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's athletic enough to get away with every sport. Yeah, he looks pretty good. I know he got trained by the pro that this movie is loosely based on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Gary McCord.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I thought his swing was pretty good.

[Joe House]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to do this now?

[Joe House]

Well, we, we might end up there. The background for Costner is that he hadn't played very much golf in his life up to the conversation with Shelton. Like would you be interested in.

[Bill Simmons]

In big baseball player, big just general athlete. I can do anything but right.

[Joe House]

He, he apparently connected with Gary McCord a full year in advance. Gary McCord and Peter Costas who were the sort of legendary CBS broadcasters. Costas was a teacher proper, a proper golf teaching pro. And he together with McCord helped Costner get a swing that I honestly think is credible. It's a credible golf swing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think it gets better throughout the movie. In the first scene, I was a little skeptical because they were kind of cut some, some. Some magic cuts. Yeah, it would be like, you'd see his takeaway and then it would cut to the follow through without seeing contact with the ball. And I was like, oh, I don't know about this. And I feel like throughout the movie they started to really just sit on him. A lot of the shots that he's hitting like 150 out onto the green, that's him.

[Joe House]

It looks like it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You can see it. The research says.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's no C.G.I. nothing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's hit like iron 150 yards onto the green.

[Bill Simmons]

They said he, he had like, not a full swing, which by the way, coincidentally is same for me. And they, they just were like, instead of trying to change his swing, he actually had a really good 3, 4 swing. So they wrote into the script that part about.

[Joe House]

I love that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's a wind. You got to like hit. Which by the way, does make sense.

[Joe House]

Well, no, no, that is the kind of. If you want to fight the ball lower, you do have a swing that, that stops. You know, if you were a good.

[Bill Simmons]

Pro, you would have both swings.

[Joe House]

You would. If you were a good pro, you would have every kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

But I like how they wrote that in a mid sense.

[Craig Horlbeck]

For a guy who's hitting distance, theoretically you need a long follow through. Him just stopping short doesn't make sense for him.

[Joe House]

One of the things I saw was that in post production, they sped up the swing that he in real life swings slower and was swinging slower as he filmed it. But they applied some speed to, to give a little more athletic enhancement.

[Bill Simmons]

I tried to do that with your ad reads on fairway rolling. I sped them up to 1 3. I don't know. Nobody told you, right?

[Joe House]

Ff fast forward.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Another thing about Costner, he just finished Waterworld. Ooh.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, boy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

A movie I've not seen.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, because he had already had. I, I don't remember when the Postman came out, but Waterworld was like this legendary. This is, as we've talked about many times in this pod, the height of movie journalism about movies and people writing about shit in the sets and premier magazines in the, in the peak. And Waterworld's like, oh, my God, they're still in the ocean. The director got fired. This is, this is going to ruin his career. So Costner said he didn't want to do any movie. He was going through a divorce. He just finished the longest movie shoot in history. The average movie films for 40 to 60 days. I just done 157 days on Waterworld. I was really low. I was down. My heart was on the ground.

[Jack O'Connell]

I was all wet.

[Joe House]

And.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And then Shelton basically is like, come on, dude.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's like, hey, what if we pay you to learn how to play golf for six months?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we'll be outside. We'll get. We'll get some cute girlfriend for you.

[Joe House]

Yeah, I. That's my question. I want to ask this.

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't. I don't.

[Joe House]

Haven't seen this in the. In the research. I'll just pose it to the panel. What do you think that when he learned that Rene Russo, as he's going through his divorce, that Renee Russo is going to be.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she was married at that point, though, he's probably suggesting a. A bunch of single actresses. He's like, what about Jennifer Aniston? Could she do be a sports psychologist? He said. He said that Shelton wrote in the. The script thing, the swing thing, to make that more realistic. The thing that he nailed the movie. He nailed the demeanor of being a golfer, but he was really good at the. I made a big shot hold the putt up.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The club up is just the coolest move.

[Bill Simmons]

I. And it's a hard one to pull off. Like, if we did it, I'm not sure it looks cool, but when he does it, it looks really cool. And he had. He also did when he shoots the 62 and he does the same. Which, by the way, he does the same movement for love of the game, but he just has little athlete tricks, even though he's not an athlete.

[Joe House]

I think he got some pointers on that from the golf folks. They wanted to lend that authenticity in terms of, like, here's how a golfer would do it, kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

He did have douchey quotes in the research about golf that I don't know if you saw was basically like, I mean, I could have played golf, but you're out there four or five hours a day. Like, I don't want to spend my days like that. Like, kind of on golf. Don Johnson played all the time. He was like an eight handicap.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, really?

[Bill Simmons]

And, yeah. And. And.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And I thought Costner swing was better than Don Johnson.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that was House's hot take.

[Joe House]

I didn't feel like that was hot. It was that hot of a take. I agree. Now, part of the thing is I.

[Bill Simmons]

Have a defense for this later.

[Joe House]

If in post production they did anything to Don. Don Johnson that's fair.

[Craig Horlbeck]

If they were speeding up Costner swing, that's one Thing, but I thought they were cutting around Don Johnson more than they were Costner.

[Bill Simmons]

So apparently in the research, they changed Don Johnson's swing so it seemed more like a PGA swing. And he was mad about it because he liked his swing, but he was like, all right, fine.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Okay. He had, like, a quirky personal swing that they wanted to correct.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But he was, like, cranking it, so he liked his other swing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And. And that one didn't work. House, here's one for you. Oh, Jacko, you enjoy this as well.

[Jack O'Connell]

Good, good.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you having a good time, Jacko? You're doing a good job executive producing.

[Jack O'Connell]

Doing a fine job working forward here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

Camera three. Camera three.

[Bill Simmons]

1996. Most important golf year ever.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Tigers right here.

[Bill Simmons]

We. Here we. Here's 96Y. Oh, I got Houses. Full attention.

[Joe House]

I. I mean, I. I think that.

[Bill Simmons]

Was like an espresso show.

[Joe House]

I can anticipate some of this, so I'm looking forward to it.

[Bill Simmons]

Happy Gil out of February, the most beloved golf movie other than maybe Caddyshack ever made. It's. But it's those two in the finals. The Falo Norman Masters is in April, the most traumatic golf event of our life. Which is funny because cup by Norman, basically, literally, was that. Has there been. I. I don't. I think that was the most traumatic.

[Jack O'Connell]

Sports event, without question, golf wise.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, Falo won. You know what happened in that, Right?

[Joe House]

There is an argument for the guy, the Frenchman, who had a, you know, multi shell.

[Bill Simmons]

We had way more ties to Greg Norman. We had been the guy for 10 years. He was. Greg Norman was basically the best golfer in the world.

[Jack O'Connell]

Was he, like, won the big one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Was he like, basically like Bryson, level of Bryson, number one. Like one of those, like, big, big South African, big swing, had all the talent.

[Joe House]

He's Australian.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's Australian.

[Bill Simmons]

Australian. I mean, Seth, ever. My first mistake. This is great to have Jack go here. It's like. It's like, correct.

[Jack O'Connell]

I'm like, Australian. I jump on the mic.

[Bill Simmons]

But he melted down in the 86 Masters. Like, he famously helped, but he. He could never get over the hump. And then by the time we got to this, it was. It was basically like, what's his face now? Tommy Fleetwood.

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Where you're just like, he's got a lead with four holes left. You know, he's going to blow it.

[Joe House]

I. I mean, you know, Norman, career wise, much more accomplished than Fleetwood.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that's.

[Joe House]

That's why.

[Bill Simmons]

So he has the Masters. He's up by multiple strokes. And falls apart on the 18th.

[Joe House]

No, on the back. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

Nick Falo came back from six strokes to win.

[Bill Simmons]

So Faldo wins. It's so awful that Faldo wins. He doesn't even celebrate. And he just walks over to Norman and hugs him.

[Joe House]

It's like.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just. Yeah. It's like. Guilty. Anyway, that happened. Tiger wins his third straight U.S. amateur, which should never happen. The three peat. And he's about to turn pro. Tiger signs with Nike, completely changes. Cough Tin cup comes out in August. Tiger launches his PGA career that summer as well. Wins his first PGA event. And we're off. Golf is now reset. We have pop culture in place. We had the Nike thing. We're about to have the boom. And Tiger blows up the next year. I'm making the case. I don't know if I'm right.

[Joe House]

I think you're right. I mean, the.

[Bill Simmons]

It's definitely a shift because you could see it in this movie.

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

The guys they have in this movie, it's like, hey, there's Billy Mayfair. There's John Cook. Like, these guys were not stars.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it just felt like young Mickelson was in there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Gambling.

[Bill Simmons]

You know who was the number one who won the US Open and was the number one golfer in 1996? This. This makes my point. The immortal Tom Lehman. How many Tom Lehman combos have you had? Nicholas won his last senior in PGA this year, too.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, the golf movie didn't really continue after the late 90s, the early 2000s.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what happened. Legend and Bagger Vance really set it back for, like, 10 years.

[Joe House]

Yeah. Seven days of utopia is out there. There's a handful, but they're not.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with you that there should be more of them.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. I think it's one of the easy to film. Yeah. Like I said, you can have characters interacting and talking and doing things while the sport is being played. It's the easiest to kind of cut around. It's probably the easiest to shoot. Surprised there's not more.

[Bill Simmons]

I always thought the. The layup idea for a golf movie that. And I think I might even written this. I was sitting there was somebody like, basically almost like. I'm trying to think like a Michael Vic type character. Like somebody that would be more in football and basketball, but comes in and it's almost like the movie Entourage. And it's like this culture clash with the PGA Tour because we never. We never really had anything like that. I always thought that would have been fascinating to just put that kind of athlete into the tour for a movie idea.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like a serious version of Happy Gilmore almost.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Never happened. Yeah. Happy Gilmore is the silly version of it. Ron Shelton. So he has those big three. He also wrote Blue Chips and Great White Hype. Did Blaze Cobb Play at the Bone. Had like a 12 year run. Just basically was like, I want to do a golf movie. And had his partner, this guy John Norvo is a co writer with him. They had a producer, Gary Foster, and they're just like, what can we do? What can we do? So apparently in the 93 Masters, this guy named Chip Beck, who was a grip it and rip it guy, he laid up on the par five 15th hole during the final round trailing by three shots. And it became a big deal that he laid up even though. And he lost the thing. And they were like, this is an idea. What if we could create a movie around a guy who never lays up up. And they go, he's like, Shelton said his flaws. He can't lay up. He's incapable of laying up. And. And that was it. And then the other thing was trying to figure out, how do we make this a blue collar golf movie, not like a nouveau riche golf movie, which is usually how people attack golf. They usually do. Like the outsider who doesn't fit in.

[Joe House]

Well, the mid-90s for sure, that was a much larger task than now. Golf's more accessible now. I'm not going to, you know, go through a whole version of.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely more diverse than it was.

[Joe House]

More diverse and more accessible than it was in 1996.

[Bill Simmons]

So the, the. The 12 had roots in, ironically, Gary McCord at the 1986St. Jude FedEx.

[Jack O'Connell]

Who can forget that one?

[Bill Simmons]

Needed a birdie to win the tournament. Jacko kept reaching the hazard and. And ended up, I think, with a 15. Wow. And they filed that one away as well. Rene Russo. I made this case on a previous podcast.

[Jack O'Connell]

I like Craig's reaction when he just.

[Bill Simmons]

Said, well, we're going to go.

[Jack O'Connell]

You didn't know where you were going.

[Bill Simmons]

Best 1990s of any actress. I made this case in a previous rewatch.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Best 90s of any actress.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, my goodness.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Julia Roberts.

[Jack O'Connell]

This is a hot take right here.

[Bill Simmons]

From 89 to 99. Major League. Lethal Weapon 3. Free Jack in the Line of Fire, Outbreak. Get Shorty Tin Cup Ransom, Lethal Weapon 4, Thomas Crown Affair.

[Craig Horlbeck]

A lot of doubles.

[Bill Simmons]

Julia has like two homers and outs. Just like, just. Just double plays. And. And case.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I texted Bill watching it the second time. I texted both you saying, one of you is going to need to kind of describe to me the Renee Russo case.

[Bill Simmons]

There's been a couple era dependent actresses that I don't know if have translated different errors. So she's in her 40s.

[Craig Horlbeck]

She's put in the Sean Young category.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You didn't get the Sean Young thing either.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

She's a little older in this movie than during the beginning of her run. But she was like a model in her 20s and converted to being an actress. Yeah. And just was in everything. I think her superpower was always she could connect with whoever she was with in a movie but felt attainable to basically anyone in the movie. One of those house loves.

[Joe House]

I love her.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You're in.

[Joe House]

And I think what you just said is absolutely on the money. And I think that this movie could have been a disaster. Like part of the challenge with the rom part of it, the romantic part of it is like we're using sensibilities. My man Kevin Costner has his hands on her within the first.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a little handsy.

[Joe House]

15 minutes of having known her. But there is a magnetism that is apparent and there is a connection between the two of them. And I believed it right away.

[Bill Simmons]

Jacko, can you think of another actress who could have romanced in a movie? Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, Pierce Brosnan, Mel Gibson, John Travolta and Dustin Hoffman.

[Jack O'Connell]

That's a. That's a murderer's there. That's a murderer's row. That's tough one. No, I. Not off the top of my head. No, No. I can't think of one.

[Bill Simmons]

She was like Cruz. Too big of a mountain to climb. Can't do it. I kind of draw the line at Travolta. That's. That's as far as I'll go. But you love Renee Russo too.

[Jack O'Connell]

I do. Yeah. Maybe Craig is too young to appreciate Renee Russo. Maybe I'd be our age, like, you know.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. There's not her type. I don't know if. If that exists now. Who's the Renee Russo of right now?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. She looks great in the.

[Joe House]

She's ubiquitous. She was ubiquitous in this era. So who else, like, who has this. This.

[Bill Simmons]

Even if you do.

[Joe House]

Is it Jennifer Lawrence with this, like.

[Bill Simmons]

You know that they make this movie now? Jennifer Lawrence is this.

[Joe House]

I would go in that direction personally.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. I would prefer. I would love Jennifer Lawrence.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

Money poor Renee Russo.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, hold on to your seat for this quote. I'll give you two choices for who said it. It's either Jacko or Costner Ron cast broads. And I say broads as a term. Deerment, a girl who can hang with guys and make everybody feel like they have a chance, even when they don't. And Costner's like, that's why Renee Russo is great. Do we need to bring broads back into the lexicon? I'm going to say no.

[Joe House]

It feels like it's now taken on a little bit of a derogatory feel.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say so.

[Jack O'Connell]

I would never refer to women like that. Bill, I can't believe you put me as one of the possible choices.

[Bill Simmons]

I think what Coster's like, and I say broads is a term of endearment. Okay. Speaking of endearment, Don Johnson, as you know, one of my all time favorites at the tail end of his Miami Vice is 84. This is 96. He's starting to move to. He's going to be a Nash Bridges soon on cbs. Good friends with. With doctor With Don Johnson and Costner. Good friends in real life, Johnson was supposed to be Elliot Ness in the Untouchables and couldn't do it because of Miami Vice. And Costner got the job and Costner's career took off. They stayed friends. I thought he was a really believable PGA golfer. The hair, the demeanor, the way he carries himself, the accent, it's. It's just. He nailed it.

[Joe House]

Impeccable. And, and I love the, the wardrobe choices as well. Like, super on point. Some of the research I saw suggested that it was supposed to be Alec Baldwin in the first place, but they had some pregnancy difficulty.

[Bill Simmons]

Kim, basically you're stepping on a very important category called casting what ifs, and it's just a complete breach of the podcast.

[Joe House]

Oh, I misunderstood.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig knows we're talking about House and I. We're going to keep it in as a cautionary tale to future hosts.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Layup next time.

[Bill Simmons]

Layup, House. Don't go for the green. And two, with the casting.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What if in the opening, Don Johnson looked great? The infinity visor looked great.

[Joe House]

Amazing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I honestly thought he was pretty likable. Chill guy throughout the whole movie. They kind of just add that one scene to turn him in to make him a dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It was like the studio gave him the note.

[Jack O'Connell]

You had to find some reason to root against him.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was kind of rooting for him halfway through.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the Jaddy Loris.

[Joe House]

Like, why did he go out of his way to go find Roy to be his caddy? That's a solid. He's not treating Roy as a dick. Yeah, I Mean, you know. Yes, it is. You're saying, be my caddy. But there's a method to the madness. He knows Roy's in. In tough straits.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

And also, why would he accommodate his girlfriend going to Roy for lessons? Is it ever apparent that. Is that a behind the back thing?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a big nitpick.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Inexplicable. Love triangles in movie history.

[Joe House]

Movie history.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I get sports.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie history.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Sports, movie history. I understand. I guess, like, if. If she's not telling Don Johnson who she's getting lessons from, that's fine. But once he finds out, him just allowing that to continue after he watched Costner put his hands all over her hips.

[Bill Simmons]

He's there at the second lesson. That was the second.

[Joe House]

We're supposed to believe that's the second lesson? They had a 12 minute first lesson. You hit one good ball. Lesson's over. Pay up, please. Second lesson.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you're.

[Joe House]

I'm late. I'm 20 minutes late to the lesson. Let me see you swing. Oh. Now, let's talk about your personal life. Oh, I mean, you know, his hands are all over. And then Don Johnson's there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's spooning her. Costner is spooning her up. Right. And Don Johnson goes, easy, buddy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's the rare movie where the. The super handsy, inappropriate alcoholic guy is the hero.

[Jack O'Connell]

Can I ask you a question that was just raised by something House said? Why didn't she just go to Don Johnson to learn to play golf?

[Bill Simmons]

I had that in nitpicks as well.

[Joe House]

Anybody in his entire organization.

[Jack O'Connell]

Entourage.

[Joe House]

He is a pga.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's like a major quality professional golfer.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Would you be upset if your wife went to Danny Heifetz for podcasting advice and you found out she was secretly meeting with him?

[Bill Simmons]

I'd be furious. Especially if Heifetz.

[Joe House]

Well, part of the challenge for me also is why is she in Salome, Texas? What?

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Joe House]

What? Pushed another.

[Bill Simmons]

Or why is he taking three nitpicks and a casting board blending it all together?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Why is David Sims dating a woman who lives in this random area of Texas?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And what's her sports psychology business looking like in West Texas, where, like, it's just a bunch of people working that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

David Sims is a top five golfer in the world. Right.

[Joe House]

They give us that impression.

[Bill Simmons]

He.

[Joe House]

He has the. He's the first round leader of the US Open, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Isn't he, like, flying from tournament to.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Tournament every week, and he's dating this woman who has a tiny job in. Outside of El Paso, Texas.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's a lot of it does that.

[Joe House]

But why have a girlfriend in Salome?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Because he's a good guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack O knows how much I love Don Johnson. Because you were there as I forced you to watch Miami Vice episode.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, I like Miami. You didn't force me. But yeah, you. You had all the Miami Vices recorded and you would play them over and over.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's one of the most controversial moments of the rewatch pulses. We did two episodes. Episodes of Miami Vice.

[Bill Simmons]

We did a TV movie. Yeah. Controversial for who? I thought it was glorious.

[Jack O'Connell]

For movie fans everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

It was great. This movie has 35 PGA golfer cameos, including a very young, skinny Phil Mickelson who we'll get to later. The Walrus. Craig Stadler, Johnny Miller, Corey Paven, Fred Couples, Peter Jacobson. All the CBS people are there. And House's guy, George Michael. The Sports Machine. Do you know what Sports Machine was?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

So it was a half hour sports highlight show that started in House's neck of the woods.

[Joe House]

D.C. nBC channel.

[Bill Simmons]

They started syndicating. It was Sunday night and they would just show highlights of. And it was basically like Sports center on ESPN or this. And I used to like the Sports Machine because they would show wrestling every once in a while they'd be like, let's go to the.

[Joe House]

Yeah. George was early. He was an adopter of. Of wrestling. And I think his show preceded SportsCenter.

[Bill Simmons]

He might have even. You're right. He might have been ahead of it. But he would. They do like blue. It's like now bloopers. And you just see like a baseball player hitting the balls. Great tv. Yeah, it was great. We were starving for any sports. It was great to see him. A couple golf things from this movie. Just a pure feeling is a well struck golf shot. I agree with that. You can play golf. You could shoot a 110. But those two are just like. It's just perfect. That's why. That's why you walk away.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sex and golf are the two things you don't have to be good at to enjoy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Not bad.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about fantasy football? I would throw that in there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Because at the beginning of fantasy football you think you have a shot just like on the first team.

[Bill Simmons]

Like anybody can pick a fantasy football team.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

It's funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Eating.

[Joe House]

Eating.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You don't have to be good at eating.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Craig Horlbeck]

How do you. How is one.

[Bill Simmons]

You could be a bad eater. You can eat bad food.

[Joe House]

Well, I mean Jekyll.

[Bill Simmons]

Anything else you don't have to be good at to enjoy.

[Jack O'Connell]

I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll come back to you if you come up with one.

[Jack O'Connell]

All right, I'll think.

[Joe House]

What about pooping? Is that.

[Jack O'Connell]

I'm not sure that's. You can rate that. I'm sure that's ratable. Like eating and pooping. I'm not sure those ratings.

[Joe House]

Fine. Can't be.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Greatness courts failure. Romeo. Like that one. Good one for Josh.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Philosophical golf lines.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That shot was a defining moment. When a defining moment comes along, you define the moment where the moment defines you. I like that one as well. $45 million budget made 75 million. Roger Ebert. Ooh.

[Jack O'Connell]

What's Roger think? Didn't love it.

[Bill Simmons]

Three stars.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, really?

[Joe House]

Three stars?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he liked Renee Russo. He said Tin cup is well written, the dialogue is smart and fresh, and when Tin cup and Molly are talking to each other, they savor the joy of language. The movie is strong and supporting characters. He likes story. He thought it was a little bloated like Craig did.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the one we did the other day? That was 90 minutes. You were over the moon, excited about it. Oh, we didn't do it. We were looking at a movie that was 90 minutes and you were like 90 minutes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, man. In and out. That's what you need.

[Bill Simmons]

Seagal's catalog. Craig really enjoyed when we were doing the like 92, 94.

[Jack O'Connell]

What did Siskel think of it?

[Craig Horlbeck]

We've never mixed in Siskel.

[Bill Simmons]

Cisco. Cisco has some hot takes. Cisco zagged in ways that gives them no credibility for the rewatchables. But we're gonna take a break and we're go through the watchable scenes and we have a bunch of fun categories. This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures. One Battle After Another is coming to theaters September 26th. Don't miss Legendary writer, director and producer my guy Paul Thomas Anderson teaming up with Leo DiCaprio for the first time ever. Pretty exciting. They almost teamed together in Boogie Nights actually alongside award winning actors like Sean Penn, Teyana Taylor and Benicio Del Toro in this hilarious action packed adventure following Bob Ferguson, an ex revolutionary, on a mission to find his missing daughter and overcome the consequences of his past. One Battle after Another. Only in theaters September 26th. Get tickets now. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent.

[Joe House]

Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide.

[Bill Simmons]

I've Never found a more perfect gift than food.

[Joe House]

Gold belly ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and even Ina Garden's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift.

[Bill Simmons]

For the food lover in your life.

[Joe House]

Head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT. That's goldbelly.com, promo code GIFT.

[Bill Simmons]

Coming back for the categories. Johnny, you remembered one thing.

[Jack O'Connell]

I did. I remembered one thing you don't have to be good at to enjoy being a podcast guest.

[Joe House]

Great job by you, Johnny.

[Jack O'Connell]

Podcast cameos. I find, you know, you don't have to be great at it. The executive producer of the rewatchable executive producing this podcast.

[Bill Simmons]

Most rewatchable scene. Molly's first lesson when she's got all those devices. He does the poem about the golf swing, the explanation of the unfinished follow through and then Roy's theory in a golf swing. Gaining control of your life and letting go at the same time. You agree with that. You play a lot of golf.

[Joe House]

I love it. I love that whole 11 minutes or whatever it is, that interaction between the two of them. It's a wonderful introduction to who he is, where she's coming from. She arrives with nothing but question marks. I'm like, what? Why is she dressed like that? She is super hot. Why does she find this guy?

[Bill Simmons]

But why is she dressed like that? Why can't everyone dress like that?

[Joe House]

The chemistry.

[Bill Simmons]

Chemistry is there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And she hits one ball.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the Renee Russo superpower though. Always has great chemistry with whoever the leading man is. And I like when you can have chemistry with Travolta. You're really pulling it off. It's not like an extensive list.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I do like a lot of Costner's lines about golf. You can tell he's like a guy. The character of Roy, all he does is think about golf. He's. He's like weirdly philosophical and poetic for such kind of like a hillbilly. But. But you do buy it. And. And it does reflect how people think about golf. It's the most frustrating and beautiful sport.

[Joe House]

That's the thing that Shelton and who was the other writer? Norville Norva.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

And Gary. Those guys are golf hit nuts. They're sickos. And that's. That's what came through. They used to Costner McAvoy as the. To be the voice that articulates that golf sicko.

[Bill Simmons]

Roy caddies for Sims. Very enjoyable scene. Great laying up versus going a conundrum. We established that we get the Walrus Craig Stadler coming in hot. We get Phil Mickelson.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Young making bets. How freaking funny was that? Talk about what stage the best. Phil Mickelson getting action on something that was not the last time for Phil.

[Jack O'Connell]

Maybe that's where he got a taste for it.

[Bill Simmons]

What's this gambling thing?

[Jack O'Connell]

The set of tin cups.

[Bill Simmons]

I love when he says, 13 years on the tour, you're still a pussy. Yeah, great stuff. Sims fires him, and then we get the Sports Machine in that section. Roy tries to qualify as another scene where he breaks all his clubs, uses the seven iron for the last seven holes, shoots 65.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That would be a great. Real life tournament is if golfers had to pick one club and play around.

[Bill Simmons]

Against one another, what would your club be?

[Joe House]

People do that. And in fact, there is a tournament out there called the Tin cup that you have to go play the whole thing with the seven iron.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

That's out there.

[Bill Simmons]

Would that be the club? You picked it.

[Joe House]

I underst the versatility of it. I personally would take a hybrid because I can put with a hybrid and chip with the hybrid. But I understand with a hybrid, yeah, I can. I can hit hybrid off a tee decent enough.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the seven iron.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Seven iron. It's one of the things that keeps me coming back on golf courses. Yeah, seven iron's great. Great club. I like when he says, what was my best shot? Was it the 7 iron on 12? Was it 7 iron on 13? He just keeps saying 7 irons. Roy versus Sims. When they make the bet and Sims does the trick on them and she says, why do men insist on measuring their day?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Which I got to say, that trick where. Where Sims hits the ball down the road and out drives McAvoy, that's kind of a main character. That's a protagonist thing to do, you know, I was like, that's a pretty cool move.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig loves David Sims. He does.

[Craig Horlbeck]

They should have gave that to McAvoy. You know him.

[Joe House]

Stan, over here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Roy qualifies with the. The Double Bogey Blues, which wins the Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award. Best needle drop jack. I was looking on the. On Spotify for the entire soundtrack.

[Jack O'Connell]

Tin cup soundtrack had some bangers.

[Bill Simmons]

You love the sex song. We're doing sex right now.

[Joe House]

It's gonna be all night. This like an all night long giving.

[Bill Simmons]

You some sex, right?

[Jack O'Connell]

Plus there's another song where he's like. He tells her he loves her and he goes to the driving. His driving range, and they have like a classic 90s montage.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Thing.

[Jack O'Connell]

And there was some music playing in that one. That was a good one too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

Couple bangers on that soundtrack.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to look very mid-90s. I don't know how Cheryl Crow wasn't involved. Chris Isaac's in there at one point.

[Joe House]

Great point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The. The Roy getting laid song is called this Could Take All Night. Some six Take all that.

[Joe House]

He asked for a mulligan.

[Craig Horlbeck]

She's like, te it up this time. I don't know what that means.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but did Roy, like, have what premature ejaculation issue? Seemed like it was an Ed. She seemed like, definitely disappointed.

[Jack O'Connell]

He took 12 shots that night too.

[Bill Simmons]

She was like, I just dumped this guy who makes 6 million a year. He's like the six.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Golfer in the PGA's got whiskey dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Every six right now. Rick can't even get it up. What did I do? Roy hits the pelican. Enjoyable. House said he could get it through the door, but not at the pelican.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. The distance. Keeping it that low. The distance is tough.

[Joe House]

Carrying it on that line.

[Bill Simmons]

Jacko is upset because he was worried the pelican was harmed in real life.

[Jack O'Connell]

I was hoping PETA was on set that day to make sure.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Jack O'Connell]

No pelicans were harmed in that.

[Bill Simmons]

Filming Roy shoots a 62, I think is my favorite part of the movie because it's incredible. Nance. All of a sudden it turns into like he's, you know, nance doing the 86 masters or something.

[Joe House]

The most striking thing to me is the first time we see Nance because his voice is the exact same. I can detect no differences whatsoever between 1996 and 2025. And my mind and my brain, I've heard it so many. And then this young handsome fella is like, hey, look at young Jim Nance.

[Bill Simmons]

Hello, friends.

[Jack O'Connell]

So good.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, plus him. Inventory. And I was. I mean, I was gonna do this Ford stage. The best. I'll just do it now. The. The. The mid seat, mid-90s CBS golf coverage. They felt like the first time people had really figured out golf coverage correctly with that whole crew they had that led right into Tiger in 97. But that 96 Masters with Faldo Nicholas, it was kind of the modern version of all this stuff.

[Joe House]

And. And the history that leads up to that is cbs. So CBS never did a US Open. That was like part of the haha. I think with this thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

That they were. You know, it was CBS on the.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, sure. Yeah. It would have been NBC.

[Joe House]

Yeah. CBS had the Masters.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Joe House]

And Frank Drakenian is like the legendary guy in the truck. And he was so compelling in the. In the research to Shelton and his team that I think they wrote in all of that activity in the booth. And that does sound set up, I think a nice sort of narrative. It's like in your ear. Those guys plus Nance and Venturi.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's arguably why the movie works so well. The last hour is because of the CBS coverage. It feels like a real tournament.

[Bill Simmons]

Also really ahead of its time in 96. Like that. Sports movies were so conventional. And it just felt like we were getting access to this world that I only knew on my square tv.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, even Happy Gilmore had Vern Lundqvist. And I'm realizing that, man. Fictional golf tournaments with real professional, like sports media people covering it. I could. I could what? We could make 10 of those a year. I'd watch them.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's interesting. Vernon Lundqvist not in this movie, but is in Happy Gilmore. Do you think he tried to double dip it or he was like.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's also in happy gilmore2 Next to post Malone.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Did you like that scene?

[Joe House]

It wasn't as.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig was not a fan of Happy Gilmore too.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That one didn't stick.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like the 62. Oh, no. It's coming up next. My bad. Roy's final round. Some. A couple really good. They have a nice wide shot putt when he makes that long one on 10 and they go. Why? I love when sports movies go wide. They never do it. They always want to do these quick cuts and keep close. And they go wide. You see him sizing up the putt. You see Sims over watching him and the caddy, and then he drains it. You see Cheech Marin in the background in the gallery. It really feels like a. Like a tournament.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. And I have to imagine one reason why it works to make golf movies is because you can just. You can have everybody in the audience sitting in the same place and you can just have Costner taking shots trying to make these. You can do 20 of them. One of them will work. And it films perfectly still. It's not like basketball or football. You got to reset everything. It's physical, it's demanding. You can just go over and over until he hits these 20 foot putts.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really good. It all sets up 18. Rene Russo says, I've never been with the man who went for it. Never been with a man who got whiskey dick first time they hooked up. Why does. Why does the eagle roll off the greenhouse? Let's do the nitpick now.

[Joe House]

Okay, so it's.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Let's set it though. It says it's like 230, 240 to the green, right? He's. He pulls out a three wood, which.

[Bill Simmons]

Is a realistic distance for a three wood for a professional golfer.

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's over the water.

[Joe House]

It will just then like to further set the context. It's a persimmon head on a steel shaft. Like that era. Super authentic. Like the modern technology didn't exist. Like the. The golf clubs that exist now are. Are like rocket ships compared to what those guys were playing with in.

[Bill Simmons]

In that the golf clubs. Now, the ball would stop when it landed. Or does it not?

[Joe House]

Well, this is the thing. Let Craig set it up. I mean, what are you saying?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, so, yeah, three wood, 237. It's got to carry 230. That's the problem. You can't roll 230. Like you have to carry 235. And yeah, a club like that. I mean, that thing's flying off the green. I mean, with a wood like that, that ball stays low and it flies. You would need real loft and spin to have that thing stick like it was and roll backwards so that the.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it feels like it would bounce and keep going and roll off the green.

[Joe House]

It makes no sense whatsoever. The. The behavior of the ball on the green is utterly implausible. It's a pure fiction. It doesn't make any sense. It defies the laws of physics. That club coming in at the trajectory that was coming in. And then they. What they show on camera, they could have made a different choice. Is the ball coming in from a height and landing softly enough. There's no chance. There's no spin on that. It's not possible.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And that's.

[Joe House]

The two. First two shots that he hits. Both spin backwards. It's. It's ludicrous.

[Bill Simmons]

The only parallel would be the. The 16 maybe on Masters when some of. When they put the pin a certain place and sometimes the ball can roll backwards. But those are like fly chip shots that bounce down.

[Joe House]

Yeah. Fifteen nations.

[Bill Simmons]

The wood is going straight and long and hard also.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Can I do a picking nits now, about this scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we. I have a couple more. We got to do it now, I think because this is. We're diving into it earlier in the movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He hits his seven iron 227.

[Joe House]

Well, now it did bounce and roll out, but.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So you tell me. He hits the seven iron 220, hits the three wood 230.

[Joe House]

Great point. Well, there's the wind the act of.

[Craig Horlbeck]

God with the wind should have pulled out the seven iron for one of them.

[Jack O'Connell]

This is the ringer difference. You're not going to get this kind of level of sports analysis. Another movie podcast. All you cinephiles out there love this.

[Joe House]

2105 iron should be a 220 carry. Yes, 225 carry.

[Bill Simmons]

My other nitpick. So he asked for the ball again. He refuses to drop in the drop zone.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is ludicrous. Even if he's like, I can hit this, try to win the US Open, then come back after and try to hit it.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to do it now in the biggest moment of your life where there's like, I don't know, what was the prize money back then? It had to have been, who cares money trying to win the US Open. When you win the US Open, you're on the tour like forever. Right.

[Joe House]

It's life defining. It's life altering. Changes everything about the entire rest of your life.

[Jack O'Connell]

For tin cup, 200 bucks would have changed his life. And I guarantee the purse was more than 200.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He was losing like a million dollars every time he hit it into the water, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So he, he, he for some and then the same thing happens and then he falls apart. He starts hitting the water and the crowd. The third time he hits in the water, they cut to the crowd and the crowd's like, oh. And we were saying we feel like this would be like watching Scatman Crothers get murdered in the shining level reaction by the crowd. I don't think anyone's making a noise.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Being in the stadium when Paul George snapped his leg in half. Yeah, that would be awkward.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like a sports injury crowd. I think by the third shot the crowd is staring in horror. Nobody is saying anything. You can hear a pin drop. And it's probably the most awkward sporting event you can go to.

[Joe House]

Let me my guess, let me ask this because. Well, I'll just ask it. I don't know. Do you think that fan behavior in 1996 is, is qualitatively different than fan behavior in 2025?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think, well, at a golf. I guess in normal things they'd be holding their stupid phones. Right. But in golf you can't have your phone. No, I think it would be around.

[Joe House]

The same in most golf because the.

[Bill Simmons]

Norman thing we, we had this in 96 with Dorman and the crowd is, is dead. If you go back and watch that last four rounds, the crowd is like just complete there in the headlights, which is really rare when you can get an entire group of people to just have deer in the headlights.

[Joe House]

The reason I asked that, and I did, as you're talking it, like, I think that the. A golf crowd in 1996 would have maintained that, like, decorum, the reverence, you know, that whole thing of being. You're in a special place, it's a special tournament. People are not going to be yelling mashed potatoes or whatever in 2025. The crowd would have, I think, turned. Like, people would have been angry people. I like the. The like. And been vocal. Like, you know, using bad words.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. At any point, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

People are going live on Instagram. People are laughing at him. He can't recover. At least in the 90s. It becomes lore. It's, like, stoic that he does this. And he almost becomes like a, you know, some figure that you can look back on and be like, wow, that's the guy who stuck to his guns. 2025. He's getting destroyed.

[Bill Simmons]

It would have been.

[Jack O'Connell]

It would have been a national, like, Twitter moment.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

A unifying moment on Twitter where everybody's like, what is this moron doing?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like, it's just that. And he's a laughingstock for the rest of his career.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the worst thing you ever saw in person at a sporting event?

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, boy, you're putting me on the spot here.

[Bill Simmons]

I like putting Jack on the spot from completely unprepared for no reason. I'm trying to think what I've seen. Been a lot of good games. I can't remember seeing something that just completely flummoxed everybody. I haven't been to any of those. You know what it would be? Oh, so this is a good one. I went to the J.R. smith timeout game. Oh, sure, now the warriors fans were excited for that, but I guess that was the closest of people were just like, wait, what. What just happened? So I think it would just be like that for five minutes. A couple other things about this scene. Russo is great in this scene because you're thinking about the shots and the things, but they. She's just really funny in the way she's like. Every shot is just running through her whole body, and then she starts laughing like a crazy person. And I don't know, she's just great. And the announcer reactions are unbelievable. The guys in the booth, Nance and Ventore, their reaction, I thought that was great.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I actually thought that was realistic.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree.

[Joe House]

I think they gave her a full. I. I think that might have even been ad libbed. I don't think there was, like a script for that.

[Bill Simmons]

Just completely lose their minds. It's great. Usually those are bad scenes in sports movies. Not this time. I love the guys jumping in the lake. I like when she says, no one's gonna remember the open five years from now. They're gonna remember the 12. It was immortal. I'm like, she's right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I love you.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he says, nice par, David, as he's carrying her away. Which you thought could have meant one of two things.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I never even considered that it was about him parring the hole because as House pointed out earlier today, we didn't even see Sims finish the hole.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We have no idea what he did.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No idea. So I guess he parred. But I thought he was making a joke. Like he got a birdie by getting Renee Russo.

[Bill Simmons]

And now I like the double entendre for that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like, you settled once again for the woman.

[Bill Simmons]

So is this a better movie if he eagles 18 and gets a minus 10 and the movie goes that way and that's what we've had for the last 29 years.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, this is a good ending, I think.

[Joe House]

I agree. I prefer this.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think, Jack O?

[Jack O'Connell]

No, I think it's just a cliche. Typical cliche sports movie then. And this one, I think I like that they went in a different direction.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Because on the first watch, it's agonizing.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You have no idea. This is coming. I mean, everything, every movie you've ever watched leads to.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why I wanted you to watch it again, because I was like, oh. When he sees it the second time.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Second time around, you're like, this is kind of awesome. This guy rocks.

[Bill Simmons]

So what's your most rewatchable scene?

[Joe House]

I. I stand by the beginning because I just think that it sets everything up about who he is. And there's enough mystery with her. And I. I'm a. I'm a. In that sucker for the golf sicko stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

So he does the whole poetry thing and then it's like. Well, the other alternative is grip it and rip it. And he drops out. Let the big dog eat. I'm on that stall right in my. That's in my wheel Joe House wheelhouse.

[Bill Simmons]

So that.

[Joe House]

That's my favorite.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I'll go. I mean, the whole last hour, the second we get to the Open, the music starts playing. You get the drone shots, but a smaller scene.

[Joe House]

Not drone. 1996.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You're right. Helicopter shots. The one part we didn't mention that. I love the smaller scene within. That is when he first gets to the US Open and he has the shanks and he's warming up with everybody. That is the worst shank, I think I've. I mean, he is hosling those balls literally backwards.

[Bill Simmons]

This is coming up in a different category.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I can't.

[Jack O'Connell]

But House has some thoughts on that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I like when he shoots the 62. And I just basically like the last 40 minutes of the movie until the last five minutes, which shouldn't exist. But we'll talk about that later. What's the most 1996 thing about this movie? We already talked about young Jim Nance, man. David Sims is sponsored by Nissan and Infiniti. And I'm not even sure. Are those golf sponsors? Maybe in the mid-90s they were.

[Joe House]

I mean, car sponsors for sure. Like, you know, that's a very common.

[Bill Simmons]

Now it'd be like Rivian.

[Joe House]

Well, it's Genesis. There's. There's literally a tournament here in Los Angeles, California.

[Bill Simmons]

You mentioned Roy's Walkman.

[Joe House]

W. We just watched one. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Roy's walkman is very 96. The Fujifilm blimp. They make a Fujifilm anymore?

[Jack O'Connell]

No chance.

[Bill Simmons]

The. I think that I like this girl 90s music driving range montage where it's like, I think I'm in love with her. I just. It just was gone by the 2000s. He's reading Ring magazine at one point. I don't know if anyone's read that in the 21st century. They probably read online. Rene Russo's hair. It's like that Jennifer Aniston, Friends Year one, kind of. Whatever. Somebody says the line, look, it's Lee Jansen and Billy Mayfair excitedly. But my winner is Craig Stadler's clothes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And Craig Stadler, the clothes in general, across the board. Also. I think everybody looks great in this movie. I hope that style comes back in golf.

[Joe House]

It's not that far away. We got some pleated pants.

[Bill Simmons]

The.

[Joe House]

The skinny guys in the pleated pants, like Costner. Looks great.

[Bill Simmons]

Looks great, doesn't he?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Big white, like the straight leg pleated pants. Who's the best dress dress golfer right now to you, House.

[Joe House]

Oh, wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, boy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I thought Ludwig Obergrate at the Masters.

[Joe House]

Yeah, I like. I like some of the Jay Lindbergh that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That.

[Joe House]

That my man Victor Hovland wears, even though sometimes they put him. It's a little clowny. But I'm a sucker for Ralph Lauren, so I've always been a Billy Ho Ho guy. Billy Horschel in the Ralph Lauren. Yeah, he's my guy.

[Bill Simmons]

What about Fleetwood?

[Joe House]

He's fine. It's Nike. It's like, you know, I think the Nike stuff's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's trying to throw him a bone. He's lost 17 tournaments. You want him to win one win? Fair enough. Any other 96 things about this movie? I think they should have shoehorned in a couple more 96 music. Like, where was Hootie and the Blowfish? How are they not in this sitting right there.

[Jack O'Connell]

They might have been too big for the Tin cup soundtrack.

[Bill Simmons]

You think they cheaped out?

[Jack O'Connell]

I think they couldn't pay for Vern Lundquist or Hootie and the blowfish.

[Joe House]

45 million dollar budget.

[Jack O'Connell]

They only had 44 million dollars to play with.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the best? I have a bunch of stuff, but do you have a big one? House. Just.

[Joe House]

Just Jim Nance. I mean, like I say, like the first time I hear his dad get.

[Bill Simmons]

A room with Jim Nance. Jesus. Awkward. Get a Winnebago with that guy. No, I have Jim Nance as well. What do you have, Craig? Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Mickelson. Gambling. I mean, come on. Yeah, the concept of getting the shanks. Also. Sports therapy. Sports, mental, kind of, you know, that.

[Bill Simmons]

Was my biggest one. Way ahead of its time. This is like 10 years ahead of its time. I think this was. One of the gimmicks in this movie was like, this is this kooky sports psychology lady. And it works for Roy. So then Stadler comes over. He's like, hey, can we try?

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's pretty good in that scene.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's really good.

[Joe House]

Staedtler.

[Jack O'Connell]

Stadler was quality.

[Bill Simmons]

I have also.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Would you want her to be your therapist after watching McAvoy break down on 18?

[Jack O'Connell]

It's a great point.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You come. Hey, I saw what you did to McAvoy. You broke his brain. I'd love to get that.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's a premature ejaculator.

[Joe House]

He was tied for the lead of the US Open on the 18th hole, according to this.

[Jack O'Connell]

I want the analysis of the woman that said, hit another one. Hit another one.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, just go for it, Roy. I'd like to see a year of McAvoy first before I pay his girl her defense.

[Joe House]

Immediately after he hits the first one in the water, she says, now go do the correct thing. Hit the layup. Yeah, she does say it. So I.

[Bill Simmons]

She.

[Joe House]

She keeps her creds too late. Her psychology creds to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Sports psychology way ahead of its time. I had A couple more calling the driver the big dog and then screaming, let the big dog eat.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Okay. I wanted.

[Bill Simmons]

That's been 30 years of people saying that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Did this movie invent that?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes. Really?

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Grip it and rip it. Was that this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Very possible.

[Jack O'Connell]

I feel like it was a rip it and rip it to John. I was wondering about that. Did John Daly come up with that or did this movie come up with it? Because wasn't that John Daly's philosophy? And he's probably like three years before this.

[Joe House]

He's right seeded the movie.

[Jack O'Connell]

I think his thing was group. I think that was in Sports Illustrated.

[Craig Horlbeck]

See, that's one of the fun experiments experiences for me going back and watching older movies is I hear these lines that sound cliche to me now and I'm like, oh, let the big dog eat. And then me and my brothers in law were like, wait a minute, did they. Did they come up with that phrase?

[Bill Simmons]

I think they did.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Pretty impressive.

[Bill Simmons]

When I was at espn, the guy who ran sales was this guy at Earhart was his old school, played golf with all the sponsors kind of guy. And he used to. His whole thing was grip it and rip it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And every time I. I loved him. Every time I saw I was like, rip it and rip it. What do we got going? But he was just like one of those guys that belongs to a different era. Like nobody would say that now in a business setting, would they?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Let's bring it back.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also, the. The doctor riddle at the beginning of the movie is another riddle that I've heard my whole life. Was that popularized by this movie or has that been. Or was that around that?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Jack O'Connell]

Hey, that's. I think that was probably predated.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think that just might an old famous.

[Joe House]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A couple more. We mentioned all the CBS production boost stuff. The sleek leather golf bags house that I were admiring, those have just gone. Golf bags have just become gigantic and unwieldy and I don't understand what. What we're doing.

[Joe House]

Well, I think those bags were gigantic in their own right and heavy as f. Because.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that what. That's why we don't have them anymore?

[Joe House]

Yeah, yeah. Because whatever the materials they were using.

[Bill Simmons]

A couple small ones. Any movie with a pawn shop involved, Just like a pawn shop's always a win.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean I'm always excited to be in one in a movie.

[Joe House]

Salome, Texas pawn shops and strip clubs. I mean, you know, we got any.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie the strip joint involved. Also when par fives on 18. Where you have to carry the water just in general.

[Joe House]

Good. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

What is that? What's the best course that Has a par 5 with water?

[Joe House]

I mean, Torrey Pines is probably the. The most famous. You know, the north course there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

No, south course. Whatever. I messed it up. It doesn't matter.

[Bill Simmons]

Cheech Marin is the sidekick. Young Jimmy Roberts grilling Roy after round three. I'm surprised there weren't more fake, more real people in that scene.

[Joe House]

More journalists.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They're probably like, get out, Tom. Fuck you lazy. Deep West Texas as a movie setting. I was like, like, midnight Run has, like, a whole stretch of the movie in there. Varsity Blues is there. Always works.

[Jack O'Connell]

What was the Armadillo budget for this movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think is the same Armadillo or a family of armadillo?

[Jack O'Connell]

There's multip armadillos in one scene, so they must have had. There must have been an Armadillo wrangler.

[Bill Simmons]

The Tin cup jokes that came out of this movie is a wood stage the best Anytime somebody melts down. Vandev was the most famous one. Yeah. But anytime it happens in a tournament where somebody hits in the water late, it's like, up.

[Joe House]

Here we go.

[Bill Simmons]

Tin cup. Nash Bridges, Don Johnson and Cheech Marin ended up on Nash Bridges on CBS for like a million years together. And then for what stage the best. This is actually segues into the Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable story from the shoot that actually existed. You know about Steven Seagal shitting on himself.

[Jack O'Connell]

I do not.

[Bill Simmons]

Got choked out by a stunt coordinator. And for justice. And allegedly on himself denies that he. On himself. Kyle Brand and I litigated for 20 minutes.

[Jack O'Connell]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

So here's the story. They wanted to get all the pros to be extras, so they went to the PGA Pro Wives and offered them a banquet where they could meet Kevin Costner and Don Johnson, who were like, in their primes. And all the wives and girlfriends were like, we want to meet. And so all the pros ended up being in the movie for SAG. Minimum 600 bucks. Wow. That's a real story. We'll take one more break. And then we got the Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink, which is a very important Joe House category. That's next. All right, House. The Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food or drink.

[Joe House]

I mean, it's the most obvious one. They go to the Waffle House in between rounds. And you know the folks, everybody. Both Renee Russo and the other lady suggest, why don't we go somewhere else. We got some money. Let's go somewhere a little fancier. And Roy is adamant. Nope, we're staying right here. I'm a Waffle House guy. This is where I belong.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a secretly important tin cup scene. It is like, no, we're not going to steakhouse. We're going to fucking Waffle House. I made the mistake asking House what is what his order would have been with the crew. And as Jack O. Can attest, it was a 45 second answer. Involved the pork chop eggs.

[Jack O'Connell]

He had it right. Ready to go. There was no.

[Bill Simmons]

Thought there was a waffle for dessert.

[Joe House]

Waffle for dessert.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Can I throw an honorable mention in for chasing bourbon with liquid antacid?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. What was that?

[Jack O'Connell]

Whiskey.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I didn't even know that there was like, antacid drink. And he was just going back and forth.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sounds like something that's true to the era, though.

[Joe House]

The Maalox in a. In a bottle. I still drink Pepto out of a basil bottle.

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Joe House]

I'll drink Pepto Bismol out of a bottle. I have a giant pink bottle in a closet. And under certain circumstances, depends on, you know, like an Indian food dinner night. Right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Like, like, like as a precautionary measure Right now.

[Jack O'Connell]

Indian food and a Pepto Bismol.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Chase to get ahead of it.

[Joe House]

No, it's night. I'm waiting. You wa. Well, you know, I gotta calm things down. Glug, glug from the. Straight from the bottle. Right back to bed. It's awesome.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right back to bed. You wake up. Glug back to sleep.

[Joe House]

Yeah, because I've been awoken because of, like, you know, the acid reflux. Whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I like eating past the point when you should stop eating. And then comedy doesn't lay up at the dinner.

[Jack O'Connell]

Welcome to the Rewatchables brought to you by Pepto Bismo.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. We're giving them a free sponsor, the great shot Gorder award. Most cinematic shot. That Roy. That wide shot on Roy's. Roy's putt on 10. I really like Dennis. Benihana award scene still in location. Jacko voted for the Golden Tassel. The strip joint. Good wide shot, but it's. It's gotta be the 18th. The water.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which you said was like a course in Houston.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That they kind of rejiggered, right?

[Joe House]

Yeah, I don't even think they rejiggered it. I mean, you know, they, they. The hole exists and you can play that golf hole. I think It's a par four chess.

[Bill Simmons]

Rockwell Brocklander's work for best character name. Roy McEvoy is really good. Yep. That's like. You have that name and you're just like, all right. It's a golf movie. The guy's name's Roy McEvoy.

[Joe House]

Funny story from Nance. My guy. My guy Nance.

[Bill Simmons]

Your guy.

[Joe House]

He had in his head as Rory McElroy Rose ascended to be careful because he had Roy McEvoy in his life way before he had Rory McElroy in his life.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

And he confesses that he had to be careful early on as Rory ascended as I love. I love Nance.

[Bill Simmons]

House gets a flex category. So I'm. I'm giving it. I'm giving. You created a category during this movie and it's called the they're category for. We're watching this. There's this moment with. With. With Molly and. And Roy when she comes back for the second lesson and there's some body language stuff. And House is like, is it a rewatchables category? The moment in the movie when you know the two characters are gonna. And I'm like, now it is. So it's the other. I don't know. We may. We gotta workshop the title a little bit. But yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

When he takes her to the river and he's licking her head.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I'm sorry. So it was when she stops by trailer. That's what it was.

[Joe House]

My bad. I got it wrong. To me, it was when he stops.

[Bill Simmons]

When she stops by her trailer. His trailer. House is like. Is there a category? Because commensurate this.

[Joe House]

She came to the trailer ostensibly to apologize for not giving him the correct sort of therapeutic. He spills his heart and she has a weird reaction and she calls up some other friend psychologist who obviously gives her terrible advice where she ignores the advice and goes to his trailer to apologize. And I was like, that's it.

[Bill Simmons]

He.

[Joe House]

That is. It is game on.

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking that would have been a good one to have. For previous movies we've done like Basic Instinct.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where they're in the car and she's like, do you smoke, Shooter? He's like, not anymore. It's like, yes, you do. And it's like, ah. They're. I'm gonna workshop the title though. The Butch's Girlfriend's Award. Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. What did you have, Craig?

[Craig Horlbeck]

This movie has no lesson. There's like nothing to take away from this movie. But maybe that's the point. But like, there's nothing to really learn. He doesn't learn. He says that at the end, but I don't know sports movies. Like half the part of a sports movie is you come away with it with a lesson. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

The lesson is don't lay up. Right. Isn't it?

[Craig Horlbeck]

He ruined his life.

[Bill Simmons]

Or. Or he's now immortal. He.

[Joe House]

He. He did qualify for next year's for the Open.

[Bill Simmons]

And his house pointed out when we're watching it today, he probably made $10 million in endorsements. Like he immediate. Like Hooters is like that in 1996. Hooters is like, how much?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Pepto Bismol.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's the people's champion.

[Bill Simmons]

He takes John Daly's territory immediately. That's. That would be my only counter. But I think you're probably right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The only other thing I had was just for time. The entire stripper storyline. He owed her money, giving her the deed of the.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's an Easy cut.

[Craig Horlbeck]

15 minutes worth.

[Bill Simmons]

Easy cut.

[Jack O'Connell]

Can I get. Can I get a vote?

[Bill Simmons]

Jack? O you. I have a spot for you. The rundown. Do you get to do your thing now?

[Joe House]

Well, I think this is for your.

[Bill Simmons]

Weak link of the film.

[Jack O'Connell]

I think the ex wife. I'm sure she's a lovely woman, that actress, but she was too old to be Kevin Costner's ex wife.

[Joe House]

Wife.

[Jack O'Connell]

We googled her. And she was 56 at the time of this movie. And Costner's like 40.

[Craig Horlbeck]

56.

[Bill Simmons]

The stripper was an ex wife or ex girlfriend.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Girlfriend.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, ex girlfriend. Okay. Ex girlfriend. But she. I don't think it was plausible that she was going to be a love interest of Kevin Costner.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And there. Yeah, that.

[Bill Simmons]

That whole thing, maybe it was like a Jason Momo, Lisa Bonet type thing.

[Jack O'Connell]

And I made the joke when we watched it where I said, I think she started stripping at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club in Dallas.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Oh, no.

[Joe House]

Oh, no.

[Jack O'Connell]

And then moved west to West Texas. I apologize to that actress. So I'm sure is a lovely woman in real life and still with us, according to Google.

[Bill Simmons]

So thank God that wasn't your weekly of the film. You had a take on the. Roy McAvoy.

[Jack O'Connell]

That's another. That's another week. I hate to. This is a fine movie. I hate to shit on it. But in the beginning, Roy McAvoy is philosophical and he's quoting Carl Sandberg, and he has all these things about nod to the gods and the earth and all these things. And then later when he qualifies for the U.S. open or qualifies for the sectional and she's spouting things, saying, well, you're somewhere between denial and delusion. And he's like, why are you using them big words? So it's like, is he like this really secret philosopher genius or is he a yokel? And they can't really ever decide.

[Bill Simmons]

It just goes back and forth between those two worlds. I think it's a very fair point. House. Your weak link of the film was that you don't feel like a golf pro would ever get the shanks.

[Joe House]

Well, no, no, I, I could see a golf pro getting the shanks where.

[Bill Simmons]

You'Re hitting in their driving range sideways.

[Joe House]

And that and the drive. The, the scene where there where he's lost at his own range where he and, and, and Romeo are trying to sort of sort it out. Him showing up at the mother effing US Open and getting up there and not having a solve an immediate solution to, you know, one shank is fine. He has the nerves. It's. He's like, you know, the long shot that came out of nowhere. The whole thing is extraordinarily intimidating. They're in awe of all of it. Romeo's like, whose autograph can I get? Okay, one shank fine. But the fact that it persists and he continues to proclaim that he can't fix it. Mother effort. You're supposed to be a ball striking golf pro. Like you never had anybody who had the shanks and you told them what to do to fix it. Like they just.

[Jack O'Connell]

The level of shanking was too much like what you say. Like going right straight down the line and like hitting golfers feet like. No, but no pro is ever gonna I that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's actually quite hard to do that. I'm not even sure you, you could do that if you tried.

[Bill Simmons]

My weak link is, is really simple. The movie should end when he says, nice par, David.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I can't believe it goes on for like five more minutes. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't know where the studio was. And it was like we gotta, we gotta close off this Cheech Marin strip joint head plot and say no, we actually don't. We don't. Nice part. David. Is a great ending. Let's get the out.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's actually the best.

[Bill Simmons]

Movie's over. Great line. It's great. Let's, let's. Wide shot, camera back, we're gone.

[Joe House]

I'm not defending it. What I think is plausible is there was a possibility of a Tin Cup 2. And the Tin Cup 2 could have revolved around because she makes a point of telling him, the next thing for you is Q School. And that could have been a storyline for Tin Cup 2.

[Bill Simmons]

Counter setup. Counter. Go ahead, end the movie on. Nice part, David.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You could have had Nance.

[Joe House]

I'm not arguing.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You could have had Nance say. And with that 12, he qualifies for the US Open next year. And then the sequel set up.

[Bill Simmons]

Will there be a next year? But whatever. Yeah, maybe.

[Jack O'Connell]

Cheech Marin was really into tangoing, and he's like, I want it in my contract that I get to tango one scene. The only way I'll do tin.

[Bill Simmons]

I honestly think that they made a bet. Ron Shelton and Cheech Marin at some point, and it's like, all right, if I win, I get my tango scene. It's like, all right, final.

[Jack O'Connell]

If you can drive the water here, you get to.

[Bill Simmons]

Speaking of Cheech Marin, we don't get to give this out enough. The Vincent Chase Award for. Are we sure this character was actually good at his job?

[Craig Horlbeck]

That was my flex.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that was your flex. Sorry, Craig.

[Craig Horlbeck]

This terrible caddy. Terrible, horrible caddy. Breaks his three wood in half, causes him to collapse, gets him blacked out drunk, and gives him three hours of sleep before day one of the US Open.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't talk him out of not laying up with, like, $5 million on the line.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Can't convince him of anything. If he just doesn't get blacked out drunk the night before the US Open. He wins by a landslide.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he wins by, like, seven strokes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He just shoots a 75 that day. He's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Fine. So he knocks it in the water in 18 in the fourth round, and he's like, give me. Give me another ball. I'm like, I'm taking my bag, and I'm walking where the drop thing is, and we're gonna. I'm putting the ball right there, and you're gonna hit the ball from right there. Yeah, he's a terrible cat. Not to mention he abandoned him. And he does really well without him. Anyway, the guy. The guy's needy. He's like, oh, like, they have the whole conversation of, like, was he better than me? It's like, who wants a needy caddy? Nobody.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's just one too many things going on. I feel like they're trying to force the Roy MacAvoy Romeo, like, bromance that there's, like, a whole scene where they're making up. I. I don't know if that needs to be there. Then you have Renee Russo. Then it's his relationship with golf. It's like one too many.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age? The worst. We've already covered a couple, including Roy getting a little handsy house. You had some thoughts on Roy's golf outfits at the driving range?

[Joe House]

Well, there are. There was.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a whole section of the movie.

[Joe House]

Yes. Really? All of the time leading up to them making it to the US Open. Many times he shows up wearing clothes that look like he just finished his mater d shift at a Crab cl. A crab restaurant in Miami. Like, there's a lot of pastel. He's got. He's got leather loafers on. I mean, I get that we're supposed to buy that he's a.

[Bill Simmons]

He's.

[Joe House]

He's casual. His vibe is west Texas casual, but the clothes aren't. Any have anything to do with west Texas. It's all these pastels and stuff. He said Hawaiian shirts and.

[Bill Simmons]

And he said he looked like he was in a Miami Vice episode, which I thought was a crucial point. He's in Nowhere Texas.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Why is he wearing linen?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Also doesn't wear a hat at the US Open. No visor, no hat, nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

So in the 90s, that was a little more common.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is that right?

[Joe House]

I feel like that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Skin cancer wasn't really on the radar. Maybe it wasn't on the radar for any of us. I have some photos we made the.

[Jack O'Connell]

Joke about it was Don Johnson's wardrobe from Miami Vice. But now that I find you reported that he and Costner really are friends, like, maybe it was literally. Maybe Costner was like, these armadillos are costing us a fortune. Can you bring some stuff from Miami Vice for me to wear? Some pants and some loafers?

[Bill Simmons]

I. I don't understand that. Half hour of wardrobe, and then it. Then it. By the time we get to the Open, it's okay.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, looks good.

[Joe House]

Clothes are on point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is too big to be a nitpoint. Nitpick. So Molly never realizes Sims is an asshole until she overhears him being mean to a fan. She doesn't see that at all.

[Jack O'Connell]

Never in any other tournament except that one. I mean, he would be normal for him.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Doesn't sound like they're hanging out too much. Sims might have had many girlfriends.

[Bill Simmons]

Was she a beard throwing that out too?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Wow. That's why he went back to Roy. To get him to caddy for him.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you like her to begin with? I don't. I just. The Sims Molly thing, I was just never buying that combo. What's age? The worst. He qualifies for the US Open in like a day and a half.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He plays like two rounds of golf.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that easy? Is it that easy to make the US Open? Craig, could you make the US Open?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Probably give me a couple weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you just like you're playing like in Orange county, you win a tournament and then.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, what if you win one more.

[Bill Simmons]

And you're in the US Open?

[Joe House]

There's a local and. And then there's a sectional. The local is an 18 hole thing and they take, you know, you have to be a two hit. Whatever the. The line of demarcation is, is demonstrating your. Your capacity to be good at golf.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right.

[Joe House]

Because you can't be a bum and show up and waste everybody's time. But you have to be in the top two or three or whatever at the local to make it to the sectional. And then the sectional is like four spots for 78 golfers. And it is the so called longest day of golf. It's mid June and there are these sectionals all over the country. I think there's one in Canada too.

[Bill Simmons]

And so is there a certain threshold or. They're only taking like, like 20 golfers.

[Joe House]

It's. They're only taking like 20, 25 total. Go. Whatever the number is.

[Bill Simmons]

So Roy makes. Even though his caddy broke all his clubs.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

One of the. Okay, I'm just.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Can we pay for me for the next year to try to qualify? Can that be our next project?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, we are sending the fantasy show to Ireland.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Now you want to qualify for the U.S. open? Yeah. They're going to Ireland for the fantasy football show.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Steelers Vikings, week four.

[Joe House]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

It's going to be like six people going and probably four coming back. We might just lose multiple people play golf too. Any other Woods.

[Jack O'Connell]

Can I executive produce that one too?

[Bill Simmons]

Any other. What's age the worst?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't think there's a lot that actually has aged badly about this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

It holds up the Ruffalo Hannah Ruben Partridge overacting award. It's not overacting, but it's something. Whatever Gary McCord's doing in his scenes, he's in a different movie. He could actually get the Teddy KGB of my own movie. I don't know what's going on with him in multiple scenes, but he's like hamming it up as an announcer. But you're in a movie that's scripted with real actors.

[Joe House]

I think it's pure McCord and I think they let him sort of just be him.

[Bill Simmons]

I knew House would defend yet another member.

[Jack O'Connell]

No they enlisted his golf thing. I think House is right though. Like, you're not wrong about him being.

[Bill Simmons]

Signing up for that experience. If you cast Gary McCord, that's him.

[Jack O'Connell]

Like if you watch golf in the 90s, that was him doing golf. I think they were like, Gary, just be yourself. I'm not even sure his lines were scripted.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There's some Russo moments where she's down it up quite a bit. Yelling at on 18.

[Jack O'Connell]

She's really down on Renee Russo. It's hurting the 15 year old guys here.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, do we do two for the money without Pacino? Craig's gonna be even more down. I was thinking with Gary McCord, I'd like to in the mid-90s, but there are these people when they. They get the reputation for being hilarious, but they're really hilarious by comparison to everyone else they're interacting with all day. This would happen. The NBA, like Blake Griffin had this and I actually think Blake Griffin's pretty funny. Yeah, but Blake Griffin as an NBA player in the early 2010s was like fucking Chris Rock selling out 18,000 seat arena. Funny compared to everyone else who he's going against. But Gary McCord, it's like when nobody's funny in any way, he seems funnier than he probably is.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Gary McCord.

[Jack O'Connell]

Gary McCord walked so David Feherty could run.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Dave Ferret is another example.

[Joe House]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he legitimately funny or is he just funny because he's in the golf room?

[Joe House]

Golf tournament funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. You don't even have to necessarily totally believe this take. We used to have a podcast called the Hottest Take that we're bringing back. We had to take a four year gave some. We had to give a four year sabbatical because Craig almost got the podcast canceled when he. He tried to bring back cannibalism.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Altruistic cannibalism.

[Bill Simmons]

Altruistic cannibalism. The podcast was done like a month later. That's a hot dream. No, it's actually done because we're bringing it back as a video pod and I'm excited about it. But what's your hottest take for this movie?

[Craig Horlbeck]

He's just. Roy McAvoy is an all time choke artist. He has no clutch in him at.

[Bill Simmons]

All, even when he's hooking up. Yeah, that's a great point.

[Craig Horlbeck]

When the lights are bright, it's. He flops at the charity event. He can stripe his three wood when it matters. He can't. He can't do It. He can hit the seven iron, you know, at the bar. He can hit the pelican in the club when the lights are bright. He can't. He can't.

[Joe House]

When the defining moment comes along, you define the moment or the moment defines you.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, the moment defined the shit out of him.

[Joe House]

He bet the moment bent him over and defined him right in the rear every single time. That's absolutely a thousand percent right. See Money crushed.

[Bill Simmons]

Again. Hold up the Carl Malone to. Really speaking of people who let the.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Moment define them all time choker.

[Joe House]

Really good.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a really hot take. I think you could switch the two male leads and the movie still works.

[Joe House]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Don Johnson could be Roy McAvoy basically playing it. I mean, honestly, Costner is not as good as being the kind of drunk southern guy as. As Don Johnson was as Sonny Crockett on Miami Vice. He is a 10 out of 10 with that character. Cigarette calling everybody darling. Stubble hungover. He would have been AN Unbelievable Roy McAvoy.

[Joe House]

I will say there was a few moments during the first rewatching of this where it's. I felt like Costner was trying to figure out his accent.

[Bill Simmons]

That's every Kevin Costner movie I know, but come on. But Robin Hood, he's just seen the scene. He's English. He's not English.

[Joe House]

That's different.

[Bill Simmons]

Jfk. No, in this one, I felt like he was too southern. Then he figured it out and.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And Don Johnson's one of the only actors who can believably steal a woman away from Kevin Costner. If it was switched.

[Joe House]

Great point. Great point.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Costner is. David Sims would have been really good. I think Don Johnson, he. It's probably like five years too late for him. If it was like late 80s even. Don Johnson, I think. And he's just basically Sonny Crockett as Roy McAvoy. That's the best movie of my life. I would be in the opening day. All right, Casting what ifs. So apparently they offered the role of Molly to Janine Turner and she turned it down. She had a run in the 90s. She was in Cliffhanger. She was in short hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone used to say she was like, drop dead gorgeous in person. Like, kind of like Margaret Qualley now, where you're just like, in person. Another level. Anyway, she turned it down. Michelle Pfeiffer approached, then they went the Renee Russo route. I don't know.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think Pfeiffer would have crushed.

[Jack O'Connell]

She'd have been too much, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's Too much. Too.

[Jack O'Connell]

Too, like, unattainable.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Too attractive.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I just. I'm not buying her as a sports psychologist in East Bumfuck, Texas.

[Joe House]

Yeah. Because she's had a series of failures. Chasing men and also professional failures.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not buying Michelle Pfeiffer in any role like that. That.

[Joe House]

With. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Even in Dangerous Minds, a classic. When she's like, re. Re getting her life back together and teaching an inter. Even that's like. You'd be married by now. Come on. Yeah.

[Joe House]

The only believable thing is her with a cocaine problem.

[Bill Simmons]

That's where you get believable. Scarface.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Fly, Pelican, fly. Dennis Quaid turned down. David Sims.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Would have been okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Alec Baldwin accepted it and had to back out three weeks before filming because some family stuff would have been good.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think he would have been less likable earlier on in the movie.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You would have hated him sooner.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a very easy ball. It's a very easy villain.

[Joe House]

Especially in that era of him.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah. That would have been a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like Malice the Bear level.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Did you read that Kevin Costner turned down the role of Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilbert?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't believe that. I didn't. I chose not to include that in there. It didn't add up to me.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he's too big of a star. He's not gonna be shooter McGav. Like, Sandler wasn't even that famous when he did Happy Gilmore. He's going to be. Shoot. I didn't believe that.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's like, I can only do one golf movie a year and it's going to be Tin Cup.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. That's it. Leguizamo was apparently offered Romeo and said, no, I'm not. Not 100% sure I believe that. But that was in the research in 96.

[Joe House]

I agree. That's.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't.

[Joe House]

He had to have been pretty young in 96.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's the thing. So he was in the Fan with De Niro that same year. That's kind of the level he was at that. He's like the eighth lead in the Fan, so I don't know if I believe that one. Best that Guy Award. It's amazing. Cheech Baron's crew includes Mox's dad from Varsity Blues, the. The biker guy from the Doors, the black guy who I've seen in. I don't even know who I. I've seen him in 40 things. I don't even know where I'VE seen him from. So he. He might be the winner. And then one of the bad guys from Cliffhanger. Who's my winner? The guy who's in John Lithgow's thing and he's flying the plane. The guy bald guy with the mustache. He's actually got kind of a big cliffhanger role, but I think he's the winner. Dan Waiters is a little more complicated, though. We have Jim Nance. We have Frank Cherkanian.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Which one's he?

[Joe House]

The producer guy.

[Jack O'Connell]

He was good.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Good. So funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Or Craig Sadler. Ooh. Or young skinny, about to get a gambling problem. Phil Mickelson, if you want to just go Cameo. I think. I think it's the Frank Cherkanian guy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Who did you think it was? Maybe.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Or Nance.

[Joe House]

Oh.

[Jack O'Connell]

I mean, House is so brokenhearted that he couldn't say. Nance.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We're gonna.

[Jack O'Connell]

We're gonna recut this.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You go now.

[Joe House]

I do think it was Trickinian, though. Kenyon is a lot more with less.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

And. And he's not camera on camera person. He's not talent. He's in the. In the truck.

[Jack O'Connell]

He was great, but it was super.

[Joe House]

Compelling for the story. It gave. Gave the story great half.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's the winner. Recasting couch. Director City. Can I offer you Susan Sarandon as the strip joint owner?

[Jack O'Connell]

There you go. Nice Bull Durham connection.

[Bill Simmons]

Bringing back the Bull Durham. She's probably the right age.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, that's a better casting.

[Joe House]

It would have been good. Yeah, that would have been a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

One Craig Dudes flex. Half ass. Internet research. Tin cup. There's some expression, she's not worth a fart in a tin cup. That's where they got that from.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I was confused. I. I assumed the golf hole is not referred to as a tin cup.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that correct? No, they. They said he got the name from playing baseball.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I thought that was kind of random and weird. Yeah. Why would it not have been a golf.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, it totally should have been a golf reference to have his nickname. He's a golfer. It's not known for playing baseball.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Tin cup Sounds like a hole.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah. It should have been something to do with that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That was such a random throwaway moment when the stripper's like, oh, he. And he's get hit in the nuts a lot.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What?

[Joe House]

That was the tin cup. But they spent so much time and I thought effectively so building up what his flaw was. Building up this. This thing that he was a com, you know, compulsory go for it guy. Make it A tin make. Tin cup. Make a story around that, right?

[Jack O'Connell]

100%.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like he had some bet, right. He bet somebody $1,000 that he couldn't hit a three wit into a tin cup, Right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Or he used to putt into a tin cup when he was a kid or something golf related.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It was just random.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he played baseball for the first time. He had a premature ejaculation problem. It was in an inside. Into a tin cup. Then they called him Tin Cup. Costner trained extensively with Gary McCord and wrote the forward for Golfer Dummies. There's a story about McCord. They really wanted him to be a consultant and have a cameo. And he's like, I'm only doing it for $250,000. And they were like, sure.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

And. And he got 250, 000, which he brags about now, which is funny when you think of all the other stuff. They cut corners.

[Jack O'Connell]

How much did Vern Lundqvist want? Like half a million? Oh, yeah, he's not in it. Vern's like, listen.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, I have the.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yes, sir. Ray knows me, that I'm bigger than McCord. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Costa made all of his golf shots, are most of them.

[Jack O'Connell]

And then like Bob Koozie and Blue.

[Bill Simmons]

Chip, there's a bunch of. There was a John Daly in 98, kept hitting balls in the water and became a Tin cup moment. This golfer named Eddie Pepperell in 2019 ran out of balls.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was compared to that. And then you have the Tiger story.

[Joe House]

Well, the Tiger story is from the 2000 US Open at Pebble beach, which is, you know, I think some people would point to, like the. The most dominant performance pinnacle of Tiger. Yeah. Yes. And maybe of any golfer in any major in history. And the story is that he had switched balls that week. He had a new Nike golf ball that he put into play. And his standard approach in terms of carrying balls was nine to 12 balls in his bag. There was a weather delay from Friday into Saturday, so he had to finish his round Saturday morning. He had taken some balls out of his bag because he didn't like the way he was putting on Friday. And he was putting in his hotel room. Left them balls behind. We're out, they're out on the golf course. A ball gets a scuff, gives it to kid to a kid. By the time they got to the 18th hole, he hooked one into the water and had one single ball left. There is a rule in golf where you are allowed to. If you can find somebody Another competitor that has the exact same manufacturer and type of ball, you can replace it. There's a penalty. But that ball was not replaceable. The Tiger ball not replaceable because it was a one of one for him for that week. And his caddy asked him to hit iron off of the 18th hole and did not tell him why. Stevie Williams did not tell Tiger why he asked him to hit an iron off the tee on number 18 on Saturday morning. Because if he had hit that ball into the water, they couldn't have found it. He would have been disqualified and he would not have won that tournament by 15 strokes and would have not been the most dominant performance ever in a man major.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So Tiger didn't question why he told him to hit the iron and he hit the iron.

[Joe House]

He did not hit the iron.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He hit.

[Joe House]

He hit driver. He's like, why would I hit iron? I want to hit driver. And he hit driver. Wow, Tiger.

[Bill Simmons]

If he had asked Jacko for a ball, Jack would have been like, off. You should have brought more.

[Jack O'Connell]

That's right. I'm gonna win. Losing by losing by 15 shots. I'll get the trophy.

[Bill Simmons]

What a weird role. When I. When I play golf, I bring like 50 to 70 balls.

[Joe House]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

And I'll probably lose most the of them.

[Craig Horlbeck]

There was one other research thing I saw that. That scene where David Sims is an. To the grandparents and the kid. Those are Costner's parents.

[Joe House]

Great. Love that.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And the. And the kid is the. Is Costner's son, Right? Yeah. So they built that. That. The water hazard hole. They built one and called it Tin Cape. Tin Cup. Lake Salame, Texas is actually. They think it's Rankin, Texas, which is near Midland and Fort Stockton. I don't know.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Texas Midland is Friday Night Lights, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

Desa. But I think it's in the same area.

[Bill Simmons]

Jacko. They talked about a sequel called cup at Q School, which would have followed Roy as he tried turning his PGA card mid 2000s. Shelton even spent a week at a core event and just never had happen. I think a mistake by Costner at that point in his career, I think I would have maybe done it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

How good did Costner get at golf? Do we know?

[Bill Simmons]

What was his hand apparently good. And then stop playing right after the movie because it's. Because again, he was snobby about golf. Here's the story from. So there's an oral history that Golf magazine did in 2016 that now you cannot find on the Internet because they changed our archives.

[Joe House]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

But there were snippets of it available. And some guy in the oral history tells this story. There was a really tall pine tree, and someone said to Phil Mickelson, I bet you can't put your shoulder against the tree, drop a ball and hit it over the tree. The shot basically had to go straight up. Everyone threw in 100 bucks. There was 1200 in the pot. And he did it. When the ball was still in the air. Mickelson bent over, picked up the money and put it in his pocket. It still make us no stranger.

[Joe House]

The legend.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We'll take one more break, and then we'll do Apex Mountain. All right. Apex Mountain. Jack, do you know what Apex Mountain is?

[Jack O'Connell]

I do not, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, nobody else does either. Nobody could figure it out. It's the peak of somebody's career combined with when they had the most juice.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Someone or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone or something. Kevin Costner. The answer is no. No for him.

[Jack O'Connell]

Not.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Did we decide what his was?

[Bill Simmons]

It's Dances With Wolves.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Okay.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He directs, he stars, he wins the Oscars 100%. He can do any movie he wants. After Dances With Wolves. Cheech Baron. It's probably somewhere in the late 70s with Tommy Chong or I. I actually.

[Joe House]

Looked up Cheech for this. He crushed cars that. The whole franchise of cartoons. He participated in Door of the Explorer and the cartoon cars. He's one of those. He's Ramon. He's one of those vehicles. And. And I. I mean, I. He had a long career post this. This movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. This is probably going to make you throw up, but I know him from Spy Kids.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm not surprised by that. He had a whole second act as. So maybe that's. That might be. Maybe that's what it is. His second act. Don Johnson, Miami Vice.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not only his Apex Mountain, but my just being able to watch it not laying up just as a concept in golf. Did it ever get better than this.

[Joe House]

Turned into a podcast?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

Those guys. Good job.

[Bill Simmons]

West Texas for a movie location.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Friday Night Lights.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Which is Midland was the team they played.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. They were in that area.

[Jack O'Connell]

I think they're next to each other nearby guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Renee Russo.

[Jack O'Connell]

She might have been bigger in Lethal Weapon 3 and 4.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Crown is big, right?

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, that too.

[Bill Simmons]

I. It honestly, it might be this movie because after this movie leads to like, she's in three more bangers and is really established and she wasn't the first choice of it, but I think after this movie she became a first choice. Peter Jacobson wins the U.S. open in this movie. I'm going to say this is his Apex Mountain. This is not somebody winning majors in real life. It's a nitpick for the movie, too. The CBS crew in a movie. Definitely golf movies. I still think it's Caddyshack.

[Joe House]

There's only three candidates.

[Bill Simmons]

I still think it's Caddy Shack.

[Craig Horlbeck]

This Happy Gilmore.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it has to be Caddy Shack.

[Jack O'Connell]

Caddyshack's like the most quotable movie of all time. Like, and, and just so much about that has become iconic, influential.

[Bill Simmons]

All those guys.

[Joe House]

The only thing I would say is like, they're. They. They had two different goals and the golf sicko appeal of. Of Tin cup because of the, you know, the realism, the lyrical, you know, it's not.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not. It.

[Joe House]

I. I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say the other one would be Happy Gilmore. Yeah.

[Joe House]

Yeah, agreed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's like generational.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Happy Gilmore 2 will not be as generational.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No, I don't think so. Although it might be for 13 year olds who like Mr. Beast videos.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe me. The Waffle House.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, no, the Waffle House has a life of its own.

[Joe House]

It does.

[Bill Simmons]

As a movie location.

[Joe House]

I think so.

[Jack O'Connell]

Oh, not for movies. But no, but like, it's just as a thing, as, as a. As a meme.

[Joe House]

I think it's been in other movies and, and been properly revered. That's worth looking at.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not. I don't think it is. I don't think it's Apex bound for the US Open either, either. I think with US Opens probably had some better moments. Armadillos. Not trying to think if they've been in a. In a movie in a better way. It's like pretty prominent. The seven iron. What is the seven iron? Had a, like a better tour through.

[Jack O'Connell]

Well, the fact that House said they have a whole tournament where guys have to play with that. Based on this movie. That's pretty good.

[Craig Horlbeck]

65 with it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then this is a big one. Jim Nance in a movie. Jim Nance.

[Jack O'Connell]

Movie wise. Not career wise, but movie wise.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? Well, movie wise, yes, but career wise, no. No. Okay. No. How about Jim Nance and Ken Venturi together?

[Craig Horlbeck]

No.

[Jack O'Connell]

They had bigger real life golf moments, I would say.

[Craig Horlbeck]

All right, I have an Apex Mountain for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Unexpected sports losses to end the movie. Movie. When a sports movie ends with a loss, is this the apex of that? I think there's. You have Friday Night Lights. They lose. Remember the Titans? They lose a League of their Own loss at the end for.

[Bill Simmons]

For James.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. But is this the. Is this the peak of.

[Bill Simmons]

Although that might be Your thing about the David Sims, the. You actually rooting for the wrong person. You should be rooting for Lori Petty in that movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Is this the best sports loss ever in a movie?

[Bill Simmons]

So the answer. Those are all great questions. I love the category. But the answer is Rocky one.

[Joe House]

Yeah, I was gonna ask.

[Bill Simmons]

He loses.

[Craig Horlbeck]

High.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they. He loses.

[Joe House]

It wasn't a draw. It was a loss.

[Bill Simmons]

It wasn't a draw. He lo. He lost. A majority decision.

[Joe House]

I was making that puzzled face.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's the answer.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Because they both hit the ground at the same time. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the best twist on it was probably Friday Night Lights, though, because they set it up where you really think they're about to win, and then they don't at the. Yeah, that's a good one. Good category, though. Cruz or Hanks?

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, this is Hanks by a million, right?

[Bill Simmons]

So this is a version of Hanks that he only brought out in League of Their Own. And it's a version I really like of him. Stubble, drunk, kind of sarcastic Tom Hanks. He just veered away from it.

[Joe House]

But I think he could have been great.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Learn how to golf. Like, watching Cruz golf is way more interesting and entertaining than watching Tom Hanks golf.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, Cruz doing Tin cup would have been one of the greatest moments of the 90s. Him. Him. Him also trying to become a drunk. Kind of West Texas. Like, it would have been bizarre.

[Jack O'Connell]

We could have done it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

We should do a draft.

[Bill Simmons]

Done it, and, like, been a disaster or actually done it. I think he could have done it.

[Jack O'Connell]

Cruz would have demanded that he drilled the shot the first time and won.

[Craig Horlbeck]

The OC we should do a draft of movies. You wish Tom Cruise was in 10 cups up there for me. I want to watch him play golf.

[Bill Simmons]

That's really good. We should do that on my podcast. Good. That could be a good mailbag category when we do the watchables. Mailbag. Scorsese or Spielberg?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Probably Spielberg.

[Joe House]

I agree.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Ed Spielberg. Jacko is hesitant to be in the Rewatchables, but not.

[Jack O'Connell]

I kind of want to just have this role in all of it. I was put off by all the categories and all, but I, you know, I. I enjoy just chiming in.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, now, you know, there you go. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Clearly somebody in the Cheech Baron crew.

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's the TCU guy. The guy was wearing all the TCU gear. Who has to be his caddy that one time?

[Joe House]

Earl. Yeah, Earl.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that guy.

[Joe House]

He would have been Earl.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I love that, by the way. That he's just rocking TCU in every scene, picking nits.

[Bill Simmons]

We hit a bunch of them. She's a sports psychologist in East Bum Fuck, Texas. Why wouldn't Sims teach her how to golf? Here's one we didn't hit. Why was David Sims's charity tournament nationally televised? And it was one round, what was going on there with a big purse.

[Jack O'Connell]

Like half a million dollars.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like he's just, oh, do you want to be? He made it seem like it was this rinky dink thing, but then it's like there's a national crew there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I guess he was so famous at the time that if you start your own tournament, it's. It's a big deal.

[Bill Simmons]

Roy and Romeo, they're broke, but they have no problem breaking an entire set of golf clubs, right? Is there like hawking stuff at the same time? They just breaking stuff left and right.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Did you snap a club that easily back? The 90s clubs, those.

[Bill Simmons]

The 90s clubs? You could.

[Joe House]

It would have hurt.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, they were.

[Joe House]

Those steel shafts, were they. They look like they were steel shafts. I think it would hurt.

[Bill Simmons]

We talked about this earlier, but Roy getting bombed before his first US Open ever is ludicrous. Nobody's doing that. Nobody is that self destructive. You'd have to have like a heroin problem.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And adding in the sleep deprivation, it was a double whammy by Romeo where he. He was already hammered. And then at the end he was like, I gotta be up in three hours. And then he passes out. It's pretty brutal.

[Bill Simmons]

Roy finished minus one. He shot an 83, 62, 64 and 78. So if he just got a four or five on that last hole, he would have had a 71. So he would have gone 83, 62, 64, 71, 62 and 64. Back to back back would have been like the biggest story of the decade.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, 62 was the record in the movie, right?

[Bill Simmons]

He breaks the record to shoot a 126 and two rounds in a row.

[Jack O'Connell]

Is when you're a nobody from East Bum, Texas.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that would have been a massive, massive, massive sports story. Just pointing that out. Nobody ever shot 6200 major, but somebody has. House was pointing out that our guy who won DN Waiters, Frank Chinian, whatever his name is, Chinon Chin. A couple weird quotes from him where he's like, we gotta keep an eye on this Tin cup guy. It's like the final round. He's in the final, final matchup, right? Yeah, we're all keeping an eye on him. He's. He's in first place.

[Jack O'Connell]

Get a camera on that guy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

62. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's three holes left. You would be, like, following him everywhere.

[Jack O'Connell]

He might be the story.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, but then the big one, which I don't think we hit strongly enough, was we never see what happens with David Sims. It's unbelievable, because if he birdies 18, he gets into a playoff with Jacobson. He lays up.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He lays up. He just got to go up and.

[Bill Simmons]

Down, up and down. He gets a four. He's in a playoff.

[Joe House]

He has to stand there and wait for the entirety of. Of the dopey Roy to hit the balls into the water.

[Bill Simmons]

But Roy just. The tournament ends. Roy walks off. We don't see Peter Jacobson celebrating. There's like, 19 things going wrong.

[Jack O'Connell]

Everybody rushed the green. He couldn't putt out. Cause they tore up the green to try to jump in the water to get his ball.

[Bill Simmons]

Tournament's over. Sorry, David.

[Jack O'Connell]

Dave, we'll give you a four or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's really crazy. Anyway. Sequel. Prequel. Prestige tv. All black cast are untouchable. Prestige tv. So they made stick, which a lot of people like on Apple tv, which is a little. Little like a cousin. Why'd you make a face?

[Joe House]

I'm only halfway through it.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. But it's like that same kind of a golf pro, kind of a. Never was.

[Craig Horlbeck]

How about a. I like a prequel? College days. Sims and McAvoy at University of Houston. Also University of Houston. Jim Nance. Nance could have been there as, like, the student broadcast.

[Jack O'Connell]

Nance would have known that.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm.

[Joe House]

I'm. I'm there for all of this.

[Jack O'Connell]

And the prequel could have a better reason why he's called Tin Cup.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. You find out in that movie. A college golf competition movie would be great. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Doris Berg, Sam Jackson, Nell. Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm. I'm so excited Jacko is here because we finally get to do Mike and the Mad Dog on. On the rewatchables. Mike and the Mad Dog. The next A and W fan after Roy McAvoy. Shot at 12. Do you want to be dog or Francesa?

[Jack O'Connell]

Just either one.

[Bill Simmons]

You. You're. You're a better dog.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I mean, Mike, you gotta. You gotta take the.

[Jack O'Connell]

Take the drop.

[Bill Simmons]

Mike, what are you doing there?

[Craig Horlbeck]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a humongous, humongous mistake. Humongous. You just. You get in at 5.

[Joe House]

You take the playoffs.

[Jack O'Connell]

You need nobody from Texas.

[Joe House]

You gotta take the drop.

[Craig Horlbeck]

What are you doing?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I know they're dumb in Texas, dog, but this was. This was dumb even for people in Texas. I cannot believe.

[Jack O'Connell]

It's a humongous answer. This would have been a better. If Mike and the Mad Dog did the day after.

[Bill Simmons]

That should have been the closing credits.

[Jack O'Connell]

That should have been the last five minutes of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Dog. Just having an absolute stroke. What are you doing? Just one Oscar. Who gets it?

[Jack O'Connell]

I brought this up when we watched it. Cheech Marin, when he does that speech. After he breaks.

[Bill Simmons]

When he gets his Oscar speech.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

That was like that monologue. It was Oscar worthy.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not the soundtrack.

[Jack O'Connell]

That won a Grammy.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm giving it to Don Johnson just because I love Don Johnson. Now that I have the studio, I'm bringing Don Johnson. I'm inviting him on the podcast. Podcasts we had to dive into.

[Joe House]

I admire Cheech's range. I would go for Cheech.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have, Craig?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Cheech is great. I couldn't think of one.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. The. The dick measuring contest would have been amazing if they had actually filmed it. These are two Hollywood legends, Don Johnson and Kevin Costner. Pretty notable reputations, so thank God.

[Joe House]

That would have been an strong stick man.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this the most revered golf movie or is it Happy Gilmore? Well, what's the most beloved golf movie right now? By the. If we're going to say the. No, I'm not talking about. I'm saying right now, the most. Most Americans. If you did a poll. If we did a poll, like, if it was part of the 2028 election and you had to vote on what is your favorite golf movie, this probably doesn't win. Does Happy Gilmore win?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's hard for me to say. I'm probably skewed because of my age, but I. I think Happy Gilmore is more fake famous. I mean, the fact that they just made the second one and it was so big. Sandler's fame, I think it's. It's more of a slapstick comedy, which I think lives on a little bit easier.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is more revered with. In the golf community, I think because of how they handled it.

[Craig Horlbeck]

More of a movie about golf.

[Joe House]

Yeah. And. And the. With the actual pg proper authenticity to it. But, I mean, I think popularity wise, it's high. It's happy.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Also revered in the premature ejaculator community as well.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Roy McAvoy.

[Joe House]

That's a pretty cool.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The Zawantne Award for what happened the next day. We don't get to give this out very often, and we never had a sequel. So Roy becomes a national story, I think multiple sponsors.

[Jack O'Connell]

He would have cashed in big time.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably blown all the money, written a book.

[Jack O'Connell]

Or he just gets drunk and kicks himself because he was already starting to beat himself up about, I just caught. I just lost the US Open.

[Joe House]

Well, he had to pay back the IRS first.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe it goes dark. He just. It becomes like traffic. He just starts doing heroin.

[Joe House]

But he's so happy he got the girl.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

And. And she.

[Bill Simmons]

Are they married?

[Joe House]

Well, she has a viable career path. If she goes on tour, working with tour professionals, then that dummy should just go on tour and play. And he could be, you know, so he.

[Bill Simmons]

He tries to get his PGA card. So how long does that take? Yes.

[Joe House]

You got to go to Q school. And back then it was like, you know, this multi layer guessing.

[Bill Simmons]

If he could shoot a 62 and a 64 back to back in North Carolina, he could probably become a. Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

And then you get the same issue, because if he goes on tour and becomes a good golfer and now his girlfriend is mentoring other golfers, he becomes David Sims in this scenario. And the other golfers that she is now working with become Roy McAvoy.

[Joe House]

I think she only.

[Bill Simmons]

They're mature ejaculators.

[Jack O'Connell]

I think she'd have to end her practice. I think it's a conflict of interest if she's basically helping other golfers and her husband is. Or boyfriend is, like, trying to compete against them.

[Bill Simmons]

Them. I got to find out for Mallory. What. What is her reaction to Kevin Costner not really getting it done in the sex scene, because we did. I think she would. I think the excuses would have been plentiful. From the Mallory side. It was late night from the course, lot of drinks.

[Joe House]

Definitely alcohol.

[Jack O'Connell]

So hungover.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, this one goes to all of you. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want want from this movie? I narrowed it down to the Roy's three wood or seven iron or the tin. The Tin cup fan club hat.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That's pretty sweet.

[Bill Simmons]

The tournament worn. There's only one. That's it. It's like right behind house right now. Yeah, I think that's probably the answer.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think, Jacko?

[Jack O'Connell]

One of the armadillos? Stuffed taxidermy or the pelican? Maybe the pelican and the armadillo, though, if you wanted to go taxidermy.

[Bill Simmons]

Assigned letter from the PETA member who Was on set making sure it was fine.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know hat?

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, the. The visor. The visor is the best one. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, imagine is in the studio right now. What would be a bigger conversation piece? Like if I had the seven iron behind house.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Seven iron would be cool. Or the. The whole bag. That red bag with the tassels.

[Joe House]

Yeah, the grit.

[Bill Simmons]

The leather bag or the last bag? Bag.

[Joe House]

The. The leather bag.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Bag. He's like a red leather bag with. With the tassels on every club cover.

[Jack O'Connell]

Golden tassel. Head covers was a throwback. Isn't that what the strip club was called?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

Was that like the ex girlfriend? Because she owned it. Owned him now. And that they had to do like a little shout out with the head covers.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Renee Russo, pretty cool with the ex girlfriend's tripper just hanging around.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, they were.

[Craig Horlbeck]

They became best friends pretty quick.

[Bill Simmons]

Right away. Oh, that should have been a pick and dance. Yeah, she would have hated, hated, hated that one. Right?

[Craig Horlbeck]

She's like, oh, that's Roy for you.

[Jack O'Connell]

She's like, okay, what about a framed broken three wood? Like if you had that in a frame. The snap three wood.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, from the qualifying thing. That's good. That's good stuff. Pelican coach finack. Word. Best life lesson. I guess it's don't lay up. Craig had trouble finding a lesson.

[Jack O'Connell]

Be true to yourself.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I feel like it's both don't lay up and lay up.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, just figure out the don't lay up layup thing better.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Well, because at the end. This is what I don't get. He doesn't lay up, and you're like, you what? He stuck to his guns, but then at the final scene in bed or on the couch, he's like, you know, I guess. I guess what I learned is sometimes you should listen to your brain, not just your heart.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Craig Horlbeck]

So I'm like, lay up or don't lay up? I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

He's pretty stupid.

[Jack O'Connell]

It's not really. Be true to yourself. Because at the end he's like, I shouldn't have been true to myself with my head and up my heart.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Threw away the US Open.

[Jack O'Connell]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, double featured choice house.

[Joe House]

I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

You got to. You have to make one.

[Jack O'Connell]

No. Is that movie. No. Is not an acceptable movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

No one's ever said that before. That was great.

[Bill Simmons]

What movie would you watch before or after this movie? If you had to watch Go to a double feature.

[Joe House]

That's the category. Thomas Crown Affair immediately. I can't get enough. Renee Russo.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. What do you have? Happy Gilmore.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I love golf movies. I love just hanging out at the golf course.

[Bill Simmons]

I did Caddyshack. What do you have, Jack?

[Jack O'Connell]

Well, yeah, because you and I are of the age where we would say Caddyshack over Happy Gilmore. But I think depending on your age, either is an acceptable choice.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Craig Horlbeck]

It's probably Costner, but part of me wants to say Jim Nance. I mean, you.

[Joe House]

It's easy for me. It's definitely Jim Nance.

[Bill Simmons]

Jim Nance won the movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

He does a lot for the movie. I do think the last hour, him being there just makes the whole thing so much more dramatic and intense and realistic and enjoyable.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have, Jacko?

[Jack O'Connell]

I want to say Cherkinian because I liked his performance so much, but I really did. And I think that he played himself and America got to see it because I've read stuff about him. But the answer is Costner. I mean, the whole thing's a vehicle for him.

[Bill Simmons]

So the answer is Costner, because this is kind of the end of this running Ed. He's moving. By the late 90s, we're doing for Love of the Game, a movie that I really like, but some people that. But it's. We're at the tail end of this.

[Jack O'Connell]

Incredible no hits the Yankees. That's why you like it?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's. I mean, that part's great, but we. This is the tail end of this incredible A plus list run he has. And it's. It's kind of not the same after this. And he. He also exacted as much as he could out of different versions of this Persona. And now we move into, like, older and then we move into Draft Day. Kevin Costner and Yellowstone.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Kevin Costner, he's also a piece of a bygone era of actors that, like. I don't know because I think he's like 40, 41 in this movie. Costner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I don't know who you cast now. This movie wouldn't be made now, but I don't know who you get to kind of be the everyman, good looking, athletic, kind of play any sport. Looks like a normal person. Doesn't have, you know, fillers in his face. I don't really know who. Who that is. Now.

[Joe House]

Is it. Could Ham do it or is he too pretty?

[Bill Simmons]

It could have been Ham's too old now, but yeah, it could have been ham 10 years ago. Maybe. Ham's a good, good one. It is like a Ham Kind of part he's got. He could grow the stubble out.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. You have to look like. You have to be attractive but also look like a normal person. You can't be too ripped, you know, you can't be too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that rules that Affleck.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah. Everyone's too old now. There's no 40 year old generation of guys that are like the Costner or the Harrison Fords. We don't have that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, because everyone's British now and they just like look produce white American actors anymore who could play this part. They're all British dudes.

[Craig Horlbeck]

They're too pretty. Everyone's too manicured. Ripped now, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, like Shalamet I'm not buying is.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Right back like maybe Glenn Powell, but Glen Powell is also.

[Jack O'Connell]

He's too pretty.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Too pretty. He's really good looking.

[Jack O'Connell]

Shia label.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Costner's really good looking there.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I think Costner's a little bit more gruff.

[Bill Simmons]

I, I think you, you hit it. I think it might be Glenn Powell.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Glenn Powell, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He would just have to basically kind of bang himself up a little bit.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Jack O'Connell]

See I think, think I said when we watched it, I think Costner was too pretty for this. I, I didn't. I think it would have been better with like Michael Keaton like a disheveled Michael Keaton like down on his luck and he'd be like a little wisecracky. You know Costner, you're not going to buy that he's like down on his luck and living in a trailer. He's too good looking.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Renee Russo's not throwing it all away for Keaton.

[Jack O'Connell]

Well that's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's.

[Jack O'Connell]

You gotta get rid of her in the movie too then if you're going.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Keaton now you just have two mediocre looking people.

[Bill Simmons]

One thing that happens in movies like this is the, the people around the person who's already fucked up his life who are also throwing away their lives to basically be in his cult, hitch their wagon. It's like what is CHEECH Marin's like 48 at this point. When do you give up on Roy McAvoy as like a real thing?

[Jack O'Connell]

Let's be honest.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's where you might go in the.

[Craig Horlbeck]

You know.

[Bill Simmons]

But then he steps in with the. Oh to get. Maybe to make Roy jealous. Maybe it's like I'm now I'm with your 58 year old ex girlfriend.

[Jack O'Connell]

The whole crew of that guy. Like what, what is their life choice led to where like you're just hanging out at this down in the market. Market down, you know, down in the mouth driving range where there's no money to be made and there's no, no clientele and you just hang out and drink beer and, like, shoot the shit.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, 30 years later, they're on their way to January 6th. Heard there's something going on in D.C.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is there a Waffle House in D.C. let's make rad.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. That was a really fun, interesting rewatchables. Good.

[Jack O'Connell]

I enjoyed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Executive produced by John o', Connell, AKA Jacko. Thank you. Thanks to Craig. I don't get to ask you what we thought about the movie since you're one of the co hosts. Joe House, pleasure as always. Thanks to Gahau and Ronic as well. And we'll be back next week on the Rewatchables.