'What Lies Beneath’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin

Summary

The Rewatchables: 'What Lies Beneath’

With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin
Date: January 14, 2026
Podcast: The Rewatchables – The Ringer

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Rewatchables delves into the 2000 supernatural thriller What Lies Beneath, starring Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford. The panel—Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin (plus Craig in a producer/guest role)—reflect on the film’s legacy as a “family horror” hybrid, its blending of genres, and its place in the careers of its two iconic leads. The group discusses the film’s twists, direction by Robert Zemeckis, the vintage appeal of its cast, and the lasting appeal—and flaws—of its suspenseful storytelling.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

Casting Chemistry and Star Power

• Ford & Pfeiffer’s On-Screen Dynamic
  • Mallory Rubin gushes about Ford: “He is the most precious thing to me and to so many. But why not both? That's the great joy of the film, is getting to watch Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer whisper into each other's ears, tickle some chest hair.” (03:26)
  • Bill Simmons: “Chemistry wise, I thought like a nine and a half out of ten. Ten out of ten.” (15:15)
• Is Pfeiffer’s Career Underrated or Mismanaged?
  • Bill jokes about Michelle Pfeiffer suffering from a “broken picker” in choosing scripts: “I thought she had a little bit of a script. Broken picker.” (04:18)
• This Movie as a Late-Prime Capstone
  • Bill: “This was the end of his [Ford's] extended 25-year prime, this movie.” (17:18)

Genre Blending: Erotic Thriller, Ghost Story, and “Family Horror”

• Chris Ryan: “It transitions a little bit from the from hell erotic thriller 90s into the high concept 2000s...I think it's way more of a haunted house ghost story than it is a erotic thriller.” (05:08)
• Bill: “I wrote down the ultimate family horror movie along the lines of like a poltergeist.” (05:33)
• Mallory: “The genre meld makes it palatable to people who are a little bit horror averse because the supernatural element is very prominent. The... domestic thriller aspect...spares it from being too scary.” (06:02)

The Power (and Pitfalls) of the Twist

• The group laments the film’s famously spoiler-heavy trailer:
  • Mallory: “One thing we should talk about...is how the trailer basically completely gives away the movie, which is number one [for] What Stage the Worst.” (08:19)
  • Bill: “The trailer fucking killed it. It was like, oh, it's evil Harrison Ford. He's the killer.” (08:43)
  • Chris: “This comes out at the tail end of an era in Hollywood movies where people were pretty good about more or less keeping twists a secret.” (09:12)

Harrison Ford "Against Type" as the Villain

• The panel loves the subversion of Ford’s usual hero image:
  • Chris: “He does a lot of...subtle tips towards his evil throughout the film. So, like his obsession with his dad, his muttering, his obsession with this big paper he's presenting. I like all that stuff. And then his heel turn at the end, especially the bathtub scene, the bathroom scene is really great.” (19:50)
  • Bill: “This is kind of a move. It's like the last thing I haven't done is gone heel.” (17:51)
• Subtle filmmaking clues:
  • Mallory: “His hand reaching around a throat is hand acting...The bloody hands on the tub edge in particular.” (20:23)

Directorial Choices: Zemeckis' Craft

• The group debates whether Zemeckis was the right director and imagines alternate scenarios:
  • Chris: “Zemeckis, like, is a master technician. He's an amazing filmmaker, but...there are guys out there that would have gone further than the red apple and the red dress. Just put it that way.” (06:44)
  • Recurring visual motifs, especially the 'ghost POV' camera:
    • Chris: “Zemeckis is constantly subtly moving the camera so that it feels like you are watching Michelle Pfeiffer from a ghost POV.” (48:28)

The House as a Character

• The Vermont lake house gets extended attention as both a location and plot device:
  • “A fucking awesome house. Can't wait to talk about that.” (07:59)
  • Amanda Dobbins Real Estate Award: “Addison, Vermont. Banks of Lake Champlain…they made five different bathrooms for the shoot.” (47:17)

Nostalgia and the "2000s-ness"

• The panel highlights period-specific markers:
  • “Slow modem speeds and not having a cell phone camera as proof for your suspicions on something.”_ (47:03)
  • Landlines, redial, and cell phones not working around the lake.

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Notable/Funny Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pfeiffer and Ford:
  • Mallory: “There's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford. You can't present me with one. Sorry.” (19:17)
• On the Genre Mix:
  • Bill: “It's spooky, it's creepy, it's uncomfortable, but it's not like scary scary.” (05:56)
• On Trailers Ruining Movies:
  • Chris: “Don't be a coward, Bob [Zemeckis].” (09:10)
• Red Herrings Galore:
  • Mallory on James Remar as the neighbor/“that guy”: “I've just...I almost don't want to spoil it. I don't want to say anything to him....I think is the best action movie villain of all time.” (23:19)
• On Movie Star Filmographies as Desert Island Picks:
  • Bill: “You only get the one person's filmography. Who you taking?” (21:44)
  • Mallory: “There's no way I'm not picking Harrison Ford because Witness is one of my favorites. And then I get Star wars and Indy, like and Blade Runner. Come on.” (21:49)
• On Dogs in Horror:
  • Bill: “When dogs know something is wrong, evil or off in some way. Always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know. They always know.” (52:12)
• On the "Possessed Claire" Scene:
  • Bill: “Pfeiffer just. Just breaking it out. You know, it's like spreading. I'll throw low 90s. But if you don't think I can still get to 101, watch this.” (41:52)
  • Mallory: “When she sits on the step...and opens her legs. I mean, come on. His expression there is absolutely priceless.” (42:37)
• On Ford’s Unbelievable Physique:
  • Bill: “Guy's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game.” (54:32)
  • Mallory: “It always makes sense to me. He was Indiana Jones. I don't know what to say.” (56:20)
• On the Weakest Link:
  • Chris: “They left a little bit on the table with Jody. I think she could have been a little witchier. And I think if you get me Laura Sangiacomo or Linda Fiorentino...” (61:28)
• On Technology:
  • Mallory: “Redial on a landline to see if somebody called before.” (47:06)
• On the Film’s Slow First Act:
  • Craig: “The first hour is definitely a little slow. I have to imagine with the rewatch, even knowing what's coming probably feels like it takes quite a while to get there...She's looking through the binoculars three more times than she probably needs to.” (30:39)

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Segment Timestamps

• 02:32 – The film’s arrival on Netflix and panel’s personal connections.
• 03:26–07:39 – Casting analysis; the Ford-Pfeiffer fantasy; 2000s movie stardom.
• 08:19–09:34 – Spoiler-heavy trailers and the era of twist movies.
• 12:49–16:23 – Michelle Pfeiffer’s career, style, and “toe dexterity”; Chemistry with Ford.
• 17:18–19:29 – Ford’s long ‘prime’ and career turn.
• 19:50–20:55 – Evil Ford: subtle hints, “hand acting.”
• 23:26–24:41 – James Remar and “that guy” actors.
• 24:47–25:03 – Zemeckis filming this during the Cast Away hiatus.
• 27:00–29:09 – Ghosts, Vermont as a setting, and Bill’s haunted house stories.
• 30:29–31:45 – The “Horlbeck Century Club” and runtime bloat.
• 32:41–33:10 – Best setting for a rewatch: safe, scary, family-friendly.
• 35:45 – Sex scenes and “possessed Claire”: Most rewatchable moments.
• 41:48–43:29 – Discussion of the iconic “Possessed Claire” seduction.
• 47:17–48:00 – The Real Estate Award: The lake house and its bathrooms.
• 50:01–50:59 – Symbolism: pendant, jewelry box, the “Sleeping Dog” shop, Celtic knots.
• 54:32–56:12 – The Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award: Ford’s physique and age.
• 57:41–58:52 – The sex scene discourse, “what Norman really wants.”
• 66:05 – Harrison Ford’s “one time” defense: “...young woman finds me attractive. Like this has never happened.”
• 67:04 – GIFable moments: Norman’s horror when the corpse is revealed.
• 73:18 – Recasting couch: alternate directors—De Palma, Fincher, Adrian Lyne.
• 75:14–76:02 – Michelle Pfeiffer’s fear of water and bathtub filming.
• 90:07–91:00 – Oscar picks: Pfeiffer, Zemeckis, Don Burgess (cinematography).
• 95:00–96:02 – Memorabilia picks: Bill’s friend as the dead husband photo.

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Key Takeaways & Final Judgments

• What Works

  • The star pairing of Pfeiffer and Ford—the film’s main enduring draw; their chemistry is palpable and anchors the story.
  • Strong direction and technical craft; Zemeckis’ use of ghost-PoV camera and attention to eerie domestic detail.
  • The film’s genre hybrid feels fresh: not truly an erotic thriller, but a “safe scary” ghost story with marital suspense.
  • The use of red herrings and unreliable perspectives draws in first-time viewers, especially those unspoiled by the trailer.

• What Doesn’t

  • The trailer’s twist spoilage greatly reduces tension for new viewers.
  • The script’s over-reliance on red herrings and some logic gaps, especially around the logistics of the crime and Madison’s ghostly activities.
  • Some roles—like Jody—feel weak or underwritten for the talent involved.
  • Pacing: The first act is notably slow and could be trimmed for modern viewers.

• Legacy & Rewatchability

  • Still a solid “throw-it-on” movie; its blend of genres and top-tier casting make it a fun rewatch—even if it’s not the best or most iconic film for either star.
  • The lake house and its interiors linger in memory (“movie house goals”).
  • The film unintentionally predicts how difficult it’s become in the streaming era to make B-movies with A-list stars—today, What Lies Beneath feels like a relic in a good way.

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Panel Consensus: Who Won the Movie?

• Michelle Pfeiffer—unanimous agreement. She steals the film with a committed and layered psychological performance—and looks spectacular doing it.

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Select Notable Quotes (with Timestamps, Speaker Attribution)

• “[On Ford] He is the most precious thing to me and to so many. But why not both? That's the great joy of the film...”
  — Mallory Rubin (03:26)

• “This is the end of his extended 25-year prime, this movie.”
  — Bill Simmons (17:18)

• “It's also...the ultimate family horror movie along the lines of like a poltergeist.”
  — Bill Simmons (05:33)

• “Don't be a coward, Bob [Zemeckis].”
  — Chris Ryan (09:10)

• “There's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford. You can't go nose blind. You can't present me with one. Sorry.”
  — Mallory Rubin (19:17)

• “Pfeiffer just...breaking it out...[If] you don't think I can get to 101, watch this.”
  — Bill Simmons (41:52)

• “When dogs know something is wrong, evil or off in some way. Always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know.”
  — Bill Simmons (52:12)

• “Guy's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game.”
  — Bill Simmons (54:32)

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In Conclusion

The panel celebrates What Lies Beneath as a sturdy, well-crafted supernatural thriller that showcases the mega-watt charisma of its leads, even if its script and pacing occasionally trip over themselves. While not at the apex for either star or its director, it's agreed to be an enjoyable, rewatchable slice of vintage Hollywood genre filmmaking—a rare beast in today’s landscape. Michelle Pfeiffer is the MVP, but everyone has a lot of fun debating 'what ifs', picking nits, and celebrating a film that still haunts (and entertains) 25 years on.

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For specific scenes, deeper nitpicks, and all the movie-nerd categories (Best That Guy, Dion Waiters Award, etc.), refer to the episode’s timestamped discussions above!

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Bill Simmons]

The rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find the watch with Chris Ryan.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

You can find House of R. You're still podcasting, right? Still podcasting House of R with Mallory Rubin.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

We did 50 most rewatchable movies ever as one of the last pods. 21st movie we've done was F1, which you were here for last night. My son comes home, doesn't have a lot of homework. School just started again, and my wife and him are negotiating movies somehow. They start with Devil Wears Prada. My son hadn't seen it.

[Chris Ryan]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Whoa. They run through the whole thing. You know what? I didn't leave the room. I bet not was number one. It was like, improve the ranking.

[Chris Ryan]

2026 is just racking up numbers. Do you think they saw your clips, like, any of the clips from that mailbag, and they were like, let's do dad proud.

[Bill Simmons]

No, my. My son watched 10 minutes, 12 minutes of the top 50. Thought it was a good idea, but got bored.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did he go to Instagram to look at the graphic?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he did that. Anyway, rewatchables, we're just cranking it in 2026. We're trying to do some movies because we're moving the Rewatchables. The video still on Spotify.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Or we're moving it to Netflix at the end of the month. We're going to try to match it with some Netflix movies, including what Lies Beneath, which is on Netflix and is a movie very dear to your heart.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it features two of the hottest people ever to walk the earth.

[Bill Simmons]

More importantly, evil.

[Chris Ryan]

Harrison Ford, James Raymore and Miranda Otto and James Reamer.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know how I feel about Miranda.

[Bill Simmons]

What Lies Beneath is. All right, the duel is here. Michelle Pfeiffer versus Harrison Ford. My favorite. Versus your favorite. Let's go. It's like heated rivalry all over again.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's not what I'm telling you. Can tell he hasn't watched Heated rivalry.

[Chris Ryan]

It would be Harrison Ford and James Raymar if it was you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, my bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why choose? I mean, I would choose Harrison Ford over any other person in the history of the world because he is the most precious thing to me and to so many. But why not both? I mean, that's the great joy of the film, is getting to watch Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer whisper into each other's ears, tickle some chest hair.

[Bill Simmons]

Believable couple.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can we take believable couple? Sure. Hot people like to fuck each other, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Mouths off to a roaring start.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have a lot of anticipation for this when it was coming out in 2000? Were you, like, the two number one draft picks are. Are united?

[Bill Simmons]

The thing is, I didn't have Michelle 5 for season tickets because in 2000.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of course, little bit of a broken.

[Bill Simmons]

Picker with some of her movies. Well, some movies that I'm just like. I'm not going to see that. You ever heard that expression when a friend of yours is just dating the wrong people and you're like a little bit of a broken picker?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't. I thought she had a little bit of a script. Broken picker.

[Chris Ryan]

I've never heard that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I just. She lost my trust a little bit, but I was always there if it was gonna be, like a vehicle for all the things I liked about her. But, I mean, the irony of this is this is the last really big movie in their kind of late primes that they did. They both moved into a different phase, which we'll talk about later. But cr. Why don't we do this more often? Just two massive stars. We throw them together, They're a little bit in danger. One of Them's in danger. Like shouldn't we just do like where are all the stars we have now just make movies like this? Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I think every once in a while you see somebody come up with an idea to do something like this. There's like an A24 mov coming out with Zendaya and Robert Pattinson that looks like it has some of those qualities that you're talking about where it's like people like these two a lot. Let's put them together and throw a concept on it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The interesting thing about what Lies Beneath to me is the way that it transitions a little bit from the from hell erotic thriller 90s into the high concept 2000s. And it becomes. If you go into this thinking it's an erotic thriller, I dare say you might. You might need a little bit of the Billy Bob Thornton juice to get through it.

[Bill Simmons]

Little movie blue balls.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's way more of a haunted house ghost story than it is a erotic thriller.

[Bill Simmons]

It's also. I wrote down the ultimate family horror movie along the lines of like a poltergeist.

[Mallory Rubin]

What do you mean by family horror?

[Bill Simmons]

A movie that you.

[Mallory Rubin]

For the family to share.

[Bill Simmons]

You can kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, the whole family can watch.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like, hey guys, let's cue a predatory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Christmas Eve. What do you think? This is like a safe horror movie. It's scary, but it's not too scary.

[Mallory Rubin]

Spooky.

[Bill Simmons]

It's spooky, it's creepy, it's uncomfortable, but it's not like scary scary.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I basically want to spend as much time with Harrison Ford as I can, but I don't, as you guys know, like horror movies because I'm a coward. I'm a weak baby and a coward. So this was one for a while. It's like, can I handle it? But I do think the genre meld makes it palatable to people who are a little bit horror averse because the supernatural element is very prominent. The. And the like domestic thriller aspect that. That blend spares it from being too scary. Prohibitively scary. But it is certainly like alarming.

[Chris Ryan]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a couple great sequences that we'll talk about. But I mean the bathtub stuff is like really high end disorienting. And. And there's a couple good jump scares.

[Mallory Rubin]

There are.

[Chris Ryan]

We haven't done a really significant director recast in a long time. Like we usually skip past that category or just we briefly talk about it. This is one. I think you could have a 20 minute conversation about all the different people who are around around this time who would have had different takes on the same material and, like, provoked way different reactions than Zemeckis. Zemeckis, like, is a master technician. He's an amazing filmmaker, but, like, yeah, you know, like, there are guys out there that would have gone further than the red apple and the red dress. Just put it that way.

[Bill Simmons]

And there's probably some actresses that might have taken it up a notch too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's another thing. This is a PG13 performance by Michelle Pfeiffer. Even the sex scene, which I'm sure we'll talk about later. I'm almost positive.

[Mallory Rubin]

I hope so.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's a little tame. It's a little TNT ish. They're not going. Showtime.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Circa 2012. Nobody's with me on that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Silence because our minds are racing.

[Bill Simmons]

I was trying to think of the raciest cable time we've had.

[Chris Ryan]

Skinemax, no question.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah, that's. That's at something. The recipe for this movie. Two massive, attractive stars.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

An accessible ghost mystery. A fucking awesome house. Can't wait to talk about that. It's kind of a stealth, shaky marriage movie for sure. And then it's a. One of my favorites, Mal the. She's going nuts and nobody believes in her, but I kind of believe her. I don't think she's crazy, but everyone else does. I love movies like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that part of the fun of the movie, especially the first time you watch it, and then I would say maybe the second time you watch it, because when a movie is rooted in some capacity, in a twist, the first time you rewatch it, you're like, okay. I see all of the clues, all of the breadcrumbs and where they're pointing. There are, like, a number of different twists in the movie. Ultimately, I will say one thing we should talk about at some point today is how the trailer basically completely gives.

[Bill Simmons]

Away the movie, which is number one. What stage the worst Real.

[Mallory Rubin]

What stage the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

The trailer fucking killed it. It was like, oh, it's evil. Harrison Ford. He's the killer.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

But Zemeckis has this whole.

[Chris Ryan]

It even spoils her. Her possession by the Affair.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who Madison is the fact that they look like, like all of us.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you see what they said about this, though?

[Mallory Rubin]

Zus?

[Bill Simmons]

This is like his thing. He's like, I want. I want people to enjoy the movie. And the more they know what's coming, the less they're worrying about what's coming. Like I feel the opposite.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't be a coward, Bob.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Mallory Rubin]

Come on, Bob.

[Chris Ryan]

Scare the out of me. Also, this comes out at the tail end of an era in Hollywood movies where people were pretty good about more or less keeping twists a secret. So usual suspects, six cents, the Matrix, you know, Fight Club. Like, people were like, yeah, man, go to the movies, you're going to really enjoy this. I won't tell you what happens. They're giving this away in like the two minute trailer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I mean the fact that he is actually the killer and will try to kill again is not revealed in the trailer. But the fact that you should be suspicious of him for all of these reasons is. And if you go in without having seen that, that part of the real fun of the movie is that he seems like such a, such a lovely guy to share a life with. Like, he's a little gaslighty from the jump. I will say gaslighting is pretty persistent throughout. But he's like, you want to fool around? You know, I'm like, sure, you're Harrison Ford. So the answer would be yes. You know, let's renovative, let's, let's renovate this beautiful Vermont lake house. That's all great. So you have like the Madison aspect of it. You have to your point about is she crazy? Also I think a stretch of the film where you shift from wondering, did she do it? Is Claire the kid?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's like, there's a lot of like Claire lost time. She's got some memory.

[Mallory Rubin]

She has repressed some.

[Chris Ryan]

A blank memory somewhere. Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's an enticing possibility for a stretch of the film. And so that part of it is very fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you know what was going to happen in this movie, Craig?

[Craig]

No, I watched it with, with Liz and her two brothers. None of us watched the trailers. We had no idea what was going on. Truly did not know that the Harrison Ford twist was coming.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Craig]

It was a real. I don't know what's going to happen next for a while, even up until the end, in certain ways it was.

[Chris Ryan]

Pretty open ended because even at the end you're just kind of like, okay, maybe, maybe he is like just trying to get out from under this affair.

[Bill Simmons]

My daughter watched the Sixth Sense with her boyfriend who had never seen it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Didn'T know the twist.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple days ago and he didn't know the twist.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh man, I've moved.

[Bill Simmons]

And I told you how I watched Shawshank with Ben.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he didn't know anything. And like multiple times Was like, oh, man. He. I can't believe he killed himself. And then they opened the cell, and he's not. There's like, whoa.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And he had a couple of those. And I just get jealous of the people that don't know these famous twists are happening. That's great.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, we're out of that era entirely now, of course, because, like, a trailer drop is an eventized thing. Trailers literally come into our lives with a mini trailer at the beginning of the trailer. It is enticing to see sell the movie by subverting people's expectation of Harrison Ford as hero. That makes sense as, like, a marketing gambit. However it does, it is a demerit in terms of sapping some of the suspense. Hour 12 of the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you need to sell Harrison Ford in the year 2000? That was, like, one of the biggest stars we had.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, his 80s is the best decade anyone has ever had. And the 90s are pretty great too.

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if there was. I mean, not specifically pressure from Ford, but since the entire pitch of the movie is like, here's a guy.

[Craig]

His.

[Chris Ryan]

One of his most famous roles is when he is falsely accused of killing his wife. We're gonna tip off that this is a different kind of role from him and that this is a different. This is not the Fugitive again.

[Craig]

There is a moment when he. You almost think he's gonna say, like.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't kill my wife.

[Craig]

I didn't kill my wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

But we get the little wink when Warren says that, which, you know, feels very deliberate.

[Bill Simmons]

You think Zemeckis was down with Derek Henry not being used enough this season.

[Mallory Rubin]

So. What minute. What minute?

[Bill Simmons]

Mark.

[Mallory Rubin]

What minute mark are we at?

[Chris Ryan]

We're like, around 16, 17.

[Mallory Rubin]

That took longer than I thought it would for him to give me shit about the ra. I'm fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I have another football analogy. My queen, Michelle Pfeiffer, who's. I don't think has ever looked better. It's like this. Or Dangerous Minds in the finals for her. Yeah, little older, more Baker boys. Well, here's my case. I wrote down, like, Brady and the Falcons, Pat's Super Bowl. Little older, more experience. Unassailable full confidence. Peak of her powers. The fucking goat.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that you write that down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Makes sense.

[Bill Simmons]

Wasn't like you could argue. You could argue, like, fabulous Baker boy boys. Was like her 04 to 07 range. But I want the Pats Falcons. This is it. This. And to Jillian on her 37th birthday. She just knows there's no lead. That's Safe. She can run any two point conversion. She just knows what she's doing.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's flawless. The performance is great. She looks astonishing. We're in a wonderful fashion period for her as well. Short of a Tarantino movie, I'm struggling to think of how many other films you could put up here on the footstep front. You know, we don't really need too many excuses. Obviously a lot of the end of the film, the climax of the film is like, can she find the toe dexterity to get to the drag? Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But you think Tarantino is like, fuck yeah, man. Love this.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're doing something special and important here. But even just like the toe, the little shard of glass, you know, we've got the Birkenstock shot when she slides off the rock. You really think that the fence cutting the wrists repeatedly at the beginning of the movie is going to matter and then it doesn't?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. A lot of red herrings. A lot of red herrings.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife made this point because Michelle Pfeiffer is so beautiful that even other women are like, wow, she looks awesome. And my wife was the good son. Mom's in this.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The lady from the Good Son who's holding the two kids. Let's Macaulay Culkin go. We haven't done the Good Son yet. It's coming.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's coming. When we do From Hell month. And my wife was like, this lady's really pretty and Michelle Pfeiffer is just blowing her off the screen. It's like. And she was like, I would never want to be an actress in a Michelle Pfeiffer movie during the this time where you're just getting annihilated just being. Having coffee with your. You're always second three minutes. Great run. So she'd been a little bit of a slump after Dangerous Muds. Up close and personal to Jillian I on her 37th birthday. Which is a great location movie. I highly recommend it.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the location?

[Bill Simmons]

Nantucket. Just go, you want to spend some time in Nantucket?

[Mallory Rubin]

Nice.

[Bill Simmons]

One Fine Day. A movie that I think all of us thought was going to work. And it just went with Clooney.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A Thousand Acres. Prince of Egypt, Deep End of the Ocean, which is tough. Sadly not good. Midsummer Night's Dream. And then the Story of Us, which was another one that was basically about Rob Reiner's divorce. That one. Her and Bruce Willis.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a good hang, that movie. And she kind of needed this one. And this was a massive hit. And Then just pairing her and Harrison Ford, it's like fucking Mad Libs of just, let's put two giant stars together. And chemistry wise, I thought like a nine and a half out of ten. Ten out of ten.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, you know how I feel about this. Harrison Ford has chemistry with a blade of grass. Harrison Ford has chemistry with anyone.

[Bill Simmons]

Top five chemistry for Harrison Ford in movies.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know that. I think McGillis, the. The longing, the Yearning, and Witness. I.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's still your number one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. The barn scene, Mosquito Coast, Ellen Mirren, Helen. Because they reunited in 1923. That's right. And that, of course, is a. He's a bad guy. He's a bad guy in that movie. So it's not like this is the first time we'd seen him be a bad guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to remember the Kristen, Scott Thomas and Random Hearts.

[Mallory Rubin]

I watched that movie a lot. Yeah. It's not my favorite Harrison Ford haircut, I will say. But he is.

[Bill Simmons]

Presumed Innocent.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who's.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's Henry?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sherry? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, regarding Henry. It's Annette Penning Annette.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a great one.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll be doing that during dramas that have now become comedies. But that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's got great chemistry with the Ritz Crackers painting behind him in that movie. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I wonder.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chemistry with everyone.

[Bill Simmons]

He would be the, like, a top five podcast for me, Harrison. Because I would ask questions like, all right, he's probably on the trailer. Who did you have the best chemistry with?

[Chris Ryan]

He could even.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he's like a famously legendary interview because for so long he was so, you know, such a curmudgeon. Right. And now he's kind of in his, like, phase of actually engaging in a more meta way with the fact that that was his interview Persona for so long. Like when he did Dial of destiny and 1923 and shrinking kind of all at the same time, and was really out there. I have never felt so alive.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

I've never felt like.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sure he's furious that Sam Elliott got this Landman part.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's in it.

[Bill Simmons]

I couldn't have lay in a pool with.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna say he's in 1923, but obviously, Sheridan famously, like, reuses performers across many properties.

[Chris Ryan]

He also, like, damaged Sam Elliott's Hip on 1883. So it feels like this is payback for that. This is, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's been incorporated into a lot, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, Much easier fall into the pool.

[Mallory Rubin]

You can't get out because your hip hurts.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, I say this Very lightly and not in an aggressive way to you especially. But this was the end of his extended 25 year prime, this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

I agree with that.

[Bill Simmons]

We move into a different phase of Harrison Ford from 97 to 2000. Devil's Own, Air Force One, Six Days, Seven Nights, Random Hearts, what Lies Beneath. And Six Days Seven Nights was a good movie that got completely overshadowed by all the stuff going on with Anne Hatch. It's actually like a good movie.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the plane crash movie where like they're.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And they're together. But he's 57. When he filmed this and Mal, this was the final stop. It was like John Cena turning heel. No, no, no, no, no. In his prime.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not the final stop.

[Bill Simmons]

No. But this is kind of a move. It's like the last thing I haven't done is gone heel.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a real lull after this for sure. And then I think he makes some good movies in the early tens, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, but he's not. He's not like the Harrison Ford is the Fugitive. I'm going.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I mean we get like force away.

[Chris Ryan]

What's like. What's like a 2000s movie? Like K19.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Right. Right on the heels of this.

[Craig]

Indiana Jones 4 is good. I will defend Crystal Skull.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like good.

[Chris Ryan]

Crystal Skull is not that bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think it's bad either. I actually don't think it's bad.

[Craig]

But the first hour is great.

[Bill Simmons]

That's not the one that came out a couple of years ago.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's good. No, I think Dial of Destiny is good.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Dial of Destiny is good.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have a to take on this.

[Craig]

That's Spielberg still cooking for the first hour.

[Chris Ryan]

That shows. That's good dial.

[Bill Simmons]

That's not bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

None of them are bad. Even the things that are bad.

[Craig]

Shia was well cast. I would make that argument.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dial of Destiny is good because it's actually like. What is it like if you are the hero of your world to get old? It's like we're not pretending that Indy isn't old in that movie. That's actually interesting. It's a story about legacy. You don't like that? And he's still got it, man. When he took his shirt off, he looked fucking great. We went back to the elbow kiss.

[Bill Simmons]

Wonderful.

[Craig]

He was 80. That's my problem with that motherfucker.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you have a take on the mailbag question we got about the. The Harrison Ford body odor category for Indiana Jones? Like just stick.

[Craig]

I don't think now would have a.

[Mallory Rubin]

Problem with That I don't have either.

[Bill Simmons]

You probably would be fine, Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

So it. This. This gets it a. I, like Chris has heard me talk about. I always wonder when there's, like, a showmance on Survivor. When people are on Survivor, I'm like, I can't really think of anything less appealing than the hygiene gets. Yeah. Each other's bodies when you smell that much. But maybe you just go nose blind. Yeah, I. There's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford. You can't go nosed. You can't present me with one. Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think you go nosey.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not like Marian and Raiders is getting, like, spa days. You know what I mean? She's also out there. Yeah, she's. She's in the. The markets in Morocco or whatever. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Snuggling up in a cot together.

[Bill Simmons]

Chris, did you buy evil Harrison Ford?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, of course.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, I think he does a lot of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really.

[Chris Ryan]

The stuff I like the most in this movie are the subtle tips towards his evil throughout the film. So, like his obsession with his dad, his muttering, his obsession with this big paper he's presenting. I like all that stuff. And then his heel turn at the end, especially the bathtub scene, the bathroom scene is really great.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, his legal defense would have been, I'm just a stick man. What do you want from me?

[Mallory Rubin]

What do you want?

[Bill Simmons]

Man's gotta get what a man's gotta get. I'm sorry.

[Chris Ryan]

Got a lot of questions about law enforcement in the greater Vermont.

[Mallory Rubin]

Me too. I have some questions about the state of Madison's missing person case throughout this movie, but on that, like, subtle clues front, you know, even the opening shot that we get, like our introduction to Norman, not the opening shot in the film, but the first time we see him is his hand, you know, Harrison Ford hand acting. Always something worth talking about. Nothing will ever top later on. But this is a great installment in the Harrison Ford hand acting. The bloody hands on the tub edge in particular. But, like, his hand reaching around a throat is hand acting.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God. Yeah. The hands of a carpenter put to good work in many respects.

[Chris Ryan]

Much like Jesus.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, indeed, indeed.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack Black, number one hand actor.

[Mallory Rubin]

Harrison for his hand acting is remarkable. If you're thinking about it. You can't unsee it once, you know, to look for it, it's everywhere. And so, like, the first thing we see with Norman is he's, like reaching around. It ends up being a loving embrace, but it's a threat really threatening gesture. If you look at it in hindsight, may. I mean, maybe fun. Depending on, you know, what two consenting adults are up to on a given evening.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't judge.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Think we could keep up with.

[Bill Simmons]

As long as there's a safe word. I love Harrison Ford. I would take his entire library on a desert island over I think just about any other actor. I think it's a great question. Hanks is in there.

[Chris Ryan]

Denzel.

[Bill Simmons]

Denzel. Stallone, Cruz.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cruz.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz probably wins this, but I would pick Harrison. This would be a good ringer bracket.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, this desert island.

[Bill Simmons]

You only get the one person's filmography. Who you taking?

[Mallory Rubin]

There's no way I'm not picking Harrison Ford because Witness is one of my favorites. And then I get Star wars and Indy, like and Blade Runner. Come on.

[Bill Simmons]

What's like the Sean would be like Paul Dano.

[Chris Ryan]

What is the most like Wichita state out there? Cinderella 1. For this bracket.

[Bill Simmons]

For that bracket.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, is it Joey Pants? Is it like Joey? Because you get Midnight Matrix. Yeah, it's like a Robert Ori.

[Craig]

They have all the titles, but they're just side characters.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, Rogan, that's considering like he was even. He's in movies in O3. Like he's in. I was just. I just saw him in something in oh, three or four. Is the cameraman.

[Craig]

Oh, 40 year old virgin. He's in.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. 40 year old virgin.

[Chris Ryan]

But you also can get Steve Jobs in there, right? Like with. With Rogan. That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Rogan's got. I mean, if you go just 21st century. Interesting one. We'll have to revisit that. This movie is a murderer's. Rove graduated. That guys and that gals like the good son.

[Craig]

Mom.

[Bill Simmons]

Wendy Crewson. Diana Scarwood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

From my favorite movie, Inside Moves that Sierra won't acknowledge, by the way.

[Craig]

He's a cameraman and anchorman.

[Bill Simmons]

Anchorman. That's what it was. That's where I saw him. Joe Mooney, Terminator 2. Like an ultimate that guy performance by Joe Mooney. One of the all timers.

[Craig]

Yeah, man.

[Chris Ryan]

You still haven't mentioned my that guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah. Who's your that guy?

[Chris Ryan]

The guy who plays Stan Ray Baker, I think his name is. Who's the guy who sells Quaid the package in Total Recall?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not even sure. Oh, that guy is like.

[Chris Ryan]

Sells him the Mars package.

[Bill Simmons]

That's his name.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So that you stepped on that guy. But I guess it was justified because we didn't mention James Remar yet. Yeah, James Remar.

[Chris Ryan]

Richard, I always said James remarried by.

[Bill Simmons]

Him, I would say at least 20 times in my neighborhood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We live in the same neighborhood. And I've just. I almost don't want to spoil it. I don't want to say anything to him.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't want to tell them about this podcast? No.

[Bill Simmons]

Just like, you know, Man Gantz, I think is the best action movie villain of all time.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you more nervous to talk to Raymar or Peyton Pritchard?

[Bill Simmons]

Raymar, yeah. I mean, over an athlete in their 20s. No. Remar, I think, is the number one. That guy. I would be. I would be like, okay, not nervous to talk to. But I would be really worried about the approach.

[Mallory Rubin]

You should leave like, a gift basket on his porch, just like Claire does.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

In this movie. And then watch him through binoculars very sloppily.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I'm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. And then C to discard the flowers that keep the wine like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Zemeckis made this movie during the long break in Castaway. The only rewatchables that somebody soloed, which was me during five weeks into Covid.

[Mallory Rubin]

All time move by you.

[Bill Simmons]

Hanks had to lose weight and grow a beard. Zemeckis used the same crew, and they filmed all of what Lies Beneath and then went back and finished Castaway. What a run.

[Chris Ryan]

And also fucking heat check. The thing that's amazing is it's not like this was an easy shoot.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

They reconstructed a house in Los Angeles sound stages to do the interiors like this was a significant undertaking. It has a lot of visual effects.

[Mallory Rubin]

Water shooting, filming with water. Never easy. What do you think Wilson was doing while Hanks was growing a beard?

[Bill Simmons]

They're making more Wilson's. They're just.

[Mallory Rubin]

What was Wilson doing?

[Bill Simmons]

The prop person was just bringing in more Wilson's feelings. This too. Over the top.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sweet.

[Bill Simmons]

Wilson director standings. He moves into sole possession. Fourth place.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting. So Back to the Future one and two flight.

[Bill Simmons]

This Gump cast.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What's this early movie?

[Bill Simmons]

He has used cars, I think that we could do. There's a couple later. So Spielberg and Scott are at 9. Man and Scorsese are 8. Fincher and Reiner are 7, Zemecka's 6. That's where we are right now. Ridley Scott and De Palma at five.

[Craig]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some. There's some ones that are probably going to bump up. There's some on the list that Tarantino is probably going to start rising pretty soon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you going to finally do Blade Runner and move Ridley Scott up?

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if Denis Villeneuve will just.

[Mallory Rubin]

Stay and do it right after this.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll call. I'll call Ted and see when Blade Runner is going to be on. I'll text them later. Movies written by Clark. Greg.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is like.

[Bill Simmons]

And now who is an actor?

[Mallory Rubin]

Who. Who's an actor who's.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just saying.

[Mallory Rubin]

Phil Coulson in the mcu. This is crazy that he wrote this.

[Chris Ryan]

He plays Galadriel, so, you know, like, he doesn't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

He definitely doesn't know who Galadriel is.

[Bill Simmons]

Did he stop Velcro?

[Mallory Rubin]

You're the best. He has a very crucial showdown with Loki at one point. The fact that agent Phil Coulson, an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. who is in the MCU, rewrote this script. Right. Rewrote it. I just don't know how to wrap my mind around this.

[Chris Ryan]

It's really strange. It's strange that he's never. Has he done other stuff other than this?

[Mallory Rubin]

He has two other movies that he has done. He has the screenplay credits for choke in 2008. And trust me, I saw that movie. And this.

[Chris Ryan]

How about that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And according to a recent article from CBR.com, clark Gregg has said that he intends to return to the what Lies Beneath universe.

[Chris Ryan]

Does he really?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's a universe now.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know what that means. Do we think we're going to get like, a Caitlyn story? You know, something like that?

[Bill Simmons]

One thing I wanted to mention about the universe, the just being located in Vermont.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's gorgeous.

[Bill Simmons]

And how much great Hollywood stuff happens in Vermont. And it's also like, all bets are off in Vermont. New Hampshire.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's where like in the Sopranos when Vito gets outed and he's just like, he's up there with Johnny Cakes in Vermont.

[Chris Ryan]

Or that's where Diane Keaton bumps into Sam Shepard being a veterinarian.

[Bill Simmons]

And you just never know what's going to happen up there. There's no cops. Funny Farm, I think is. Was it up there, but it's always like, upstate New York, New Hampshire.

[Chris Ryan]

New England is a great Vermont.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just great. It's remote. It always feels safe, but it's kind of not.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't think of a better movie with Lake Champlain in the background.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

The original story was written by Sarah Kanochin, documentarian, inspired by a real paranormal experience she had, obviously. In my wheelhouse.

[Mallory Rubin]

You love us.

[Bill Simmons]

Our house is fine. The ghosts love us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Now you're getting along with the ghosts?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they've they accept us now?

[Chris Ryan]

What do you mean? This house has no ghosts anymore or they. You have.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, they're here.

[Bill Simmons]

They're good.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me a little bit of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Little color on that. So, like, how. How would you say you guys are.

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing happened except went away for a couple in the summer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And came back and, like, a frame fell over. Like, okay. 20 minutes of us being home as.

[Mallory Rubin]

A way to say we're glad you're back. You think, like, communicate there. Yeah, we.

[Bill Simmons]

Like when you're around.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's how. That's how I interpreted it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, interesting. Third.

[Bill Simmons]

Third floor. The. There's a door that just. Sometimes it's open, sometimes it's shut. Nobody touches it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Big part of the plot of this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So has anybody, like, written a message to you in the steam in a mirror?

[Craig]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

See, that would. That would actually freak me out.

[Chris Ryan]

That would freak me out, too. Are you open to having a paranormal investigator come over and interpret?

[Bill Simmons]

No, because I don't think the ghost would like that. I want the ghosts to like us.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that, like, putting them on display, I don't think works.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to be like, we acknowledge they're there. They like us. Why are you.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, I just think so. This is one of my. I can't decide if this is, like, the hot take about the movie. I have another hottest take. But, like, the hot take about the movie is if you stay in a haunted house that long, you deserve to maybe die. Or if a woman. What. What's aged the worst is just, like, how long Claire stays around after all of these horrible things are happening.

[Bill Simmons]

She should have left pretty early.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It's kind of disqualifying. But I think. What? What. When I'm bumping on with what you're saying, I like that you guys are cohabitating peacefully. I think you're afraid of the ghost still, and you're pretending you're not. Because the fact that you're really, like, you're. You're.

[Bill Simmons]

There's level of trepidation all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't want to piss off the ghost, and that means that you're still living in fear.

[Chris Ryan]

And what's the. The sort of household feeling on it?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, wife Zoe's in the worst spot with it because she had a dream once that a witch was clawing at her and woke up and had scratch marks on her arm, but she might have done it herself.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did she have any, like, skin under her fingernails?

[Bill Simmons]

I probably should have led with that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, that's bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that wasn't great.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's bad.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like, we have a witch. I'm like, nah, we don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

A witch would be cool. Is it the ghost of a witch or like a witch who is just.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you know, see 2026. We're really bringing it on the rewatch. Listen to go in any direction. Yeah. $100 million budget for what Lies Beneath, which is it made. $291 million.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

10Th biggest film of 2000. New category. The Horlbeck Century Club.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So one of our listeners said that we have to tie everything to 100 minutes. This movie, Craig. 130 minutes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So what is it on the scale? It's not 30 minutes too long, is it?

[Craig]

No, it's probably 15, though. This probably could be a 155. Er, I think is the right move. There is a. It's the. The first hour is definitely a little slow. I have to imagine with the rewatch, even knowing what's coming probably feels like it takes quite a while to get there. There's a lot of, like. She looks through the binoculars three more times and she probably needs to. It is a little slow for a while.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also a tough movie to. You have to watch it. You have to watch, like, all the little clues, all the little camera moves. It demands a lot of attention. There's a lot of sequences without dialogue. And so it's a tough movie to be like, I'm gonna go get a chocolate chip cookie and come back and I'll know what's going on.

[Craig]

I give it a minus 15.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I'm wondering, do we use decimals or is it just straight decimal? I was wondering if we were gonna.

[Chris Ryan]

Create our own metric. Like how many Horlbecks do you wanna give this movie? Plus or minus 10? Craig.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's minus. It's like a minus 14.7.

[Craig]

Something like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I'll keep track and we'll see at the end of the year which is the biggest number.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. I like the Horrelbeck scale. I agree with you. I think like about 1:54. Range is probably.

[Mallory Rubin]

But do you agree that it should be removed from the. The front of the movie? Because I. I would pause it. Be curious when you rewatch it, what you actually think of this. Because the end is so suspenseful when you're watching it for the first time. Once you know what's coming, I will.

[Bill Simmons]

Say a little bit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Like 20 minutes of slowly walking down the steps and like, stopping in places very deliberate. It's too. A touch too long once you know the rest.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a couple of things that happen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where you're like, you can't.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, did she even need a. Like, there's a couple of things. Like if you're going to dive in to get the jewelry box.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like just open. Like, we don't need to go on a long trip to Adamant to get the key. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Good.

[Bill Simmons]

Good call cr. That's why you're the best.

[Mallory Rubin]

But we get to see a charming village.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Another new category. Watch party. Best setting for a watch rewatch. I'm only going to give all of these once, but afterwards will be much faster. So the nominees are first date, Date night, After you've been dating for a while or you're married.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely not.

[Bill Simmons]

Kids in laws, Safe scary Family hang, Proxy vacation theater airplane solo. That's CR's category for hardcore Peanut gallery. Ladies night, Pre game or 5 o'. Clocker. This is safe scary. Obviously this is. Yeah, yeah, you can.

[Chris Ryan]

Kids can watch this.

[Bill Simmons]

You can be at your girlfriend's house when you're visiting her in college and it's like, what should we watch? And it's like, ah, we could probably watch what Lies Beneath. There's nothing bad.

[Chris Ryan]

Gotta say, I do think it has some late summer vacation vibes.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, like a.

[Chris Ryan]

Like last two days at the vacation.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Go back.

[Chris Ryan]

But before you go back home and.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Any body of water nearby. It helps.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Yeah. I like that. There's a boat.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad news. Roger Ebert, two stars.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He said it milks the genuine skills of its actor and director for more than it deserves. It runs off the rail in the ending. More laughable than scary. He uses the phrase morass of absurdity at one point.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ah, man. Poet. Poet. He's not alone in his opinion of this movie. This is not exactly a critically adored, 40% something. 49% on the old RT, I believe.

[Bill Simmons]

Sadly, I don't remember where I took my wife, my future wife, to see this movie. And I remember where we saw it and it was fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think as the years have passed, I think it's become a better hang. It's a really good throw it on movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

You just kind of be on as you're doing something else. It's just pleasant, pleasant fun. Hang, taking a break and we're gonna do most rewatchable scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna throw some most rewatchable scenes at you. The tough. First 25 minutes are tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where it's a lot of, like, setup, setup, setup. It's really the dinner double date.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's your first rewatchable scene.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you could pick any small ones, like binoculars, jump scare. I'm just kind of moving us along.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the thing. The first time through the binoculars, the jump scare, through the fence, all very cool.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Multiple times through, you're like. I know. Are like a complete red herring. So the first half hour of this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

The thing is, I think you start this 25 minutes in and you're okay.

[Chris Ryan]

But you're right, the dinner scene is awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

I love double dates where we're just getting. We're picking apart couples and I'm getting little clues.

[Chris Ryan]

Cross talk is great.

[Craig]

Yeah. You're really straining. Yeah. Like, when you first watch it or when you rewatch it, do you. Do you listen to the men or the women?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, this is an interesting litmus test, isn't it?

[Chris Ryan]

I listen to the women.

[Mallory Rubin]

I listen to the men as an ally.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I listen to whoever Michelle Pfeiffer was talking to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, she's talking to Elena. So you're listening to the women. I'm listening to. I'm hanging on Harrison.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's kind of amazing because that's.

[Bill Simmons]

A really good scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Stan gives away the movie because he's like, did you hear about Bo? Whatever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's like, wow, they really don't play with those things anymore, do they?

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, and he seems nervous. Norman seems a little nervous. The only thing before that that I. You have to mention, unless we're going to just talk about all the sex stuff later, is Claire and Norman trying to, like, compete with the furor. The furor's fucking. That's memorable and rewatchable.

[Bill Simmons]

That's fair.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't see a way that that's not rewatchable. Have you. Do you notice when you revisit that, that Harrison Ford's hands are the same size as the entire keyboard?

[Chris Ryan]

Didn't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't pick that up.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's. Keep an eye out next time you look. How about the way that when he leans back forward and he's like, do some more of that Normans genius stuff. Michelle Pfeiffer's leg is on his shoulder. You know what he's doing down there? Very memorable.

[Chris Ryan]

Very rewatchable body with her for a while.

[Bill Simmons]

I've been watching Game of Thrones and the sauna.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have so many questions about. I mean, I'm thrilled you're Revisiting.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like it could be our next ringer Rewatch pod.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've done that before, but sure.

[Bill Simmons]

No, same ip. Say it might be just me and Asana going, whoa, yeah, Red wedding. And then the pod's over.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be great. I think your recap, where you don't know a single character's name would be really would have a lot of utility people. The blonde one.

[Bill Simmons]

I know the names now because I'm so hot, I actually have to concentrate.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's like, oh, Sansa, look at this guy. It's King Robert Baratheon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bobby B. Yeah, Bobby B is in there. Hit him with a hammer. Look at him.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Joffrey.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God, this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, really fun guy. Back together with the gang.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's a great show. I mean, disastrous ending.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you going to watch the new one?

[Mallory Rubin]

Disastrous.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's why I'm kind of up to maybe keep them.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the new one set before this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It starts in a week and a half.

[Bill Simmons]

No, 1100s.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Dark ages.

[Bill Simmons]

Joanna didn't know that joke.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she seriously thought. I thought it was in the 1300s.

[Mallory Rubin]

You do seriously think that.

[Bill Simmons]

So you don't know that it's not. Next rewatchable scene. Claire finds a full bathtub in a steamy bathroom. And a waterlog. Ghost and the reflection. This is arguably, I'm out of here. Staying in a hotel from now on.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would moment I would simply leave. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if I'm back in.

[Chris Ryan]

The house after, but I do like the anxiety of both the marriage and the renovation project that they seem to have undertaken with this house of being like, we just.

[Craig]

I'm.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm fucking not leaving this place. Okay. Like, I've been rebuilding. We've come this far for 10 years. You know, this is Norman's dad's place. But we gutted it. We got it all.

[Mallory Rubin]

The dupont Chair. It's all actually. I think that's actually kind of one of the weird things about rewatching the movie is realizing how much of the key plot is really about the last year. Yeah, this year. Of key events in their lives, obviously, the car crash, everything with Madison, the DuPont chair. But it does make me wonder, have they done all of the renovations in that span of time?

[Bill Simmons]

Some amnesia in there.

[Chris Ryan]

They mentioned it during the dinner. I can't remember. But they're like, that's his joke is like, my dad is haunting us because he's so mad at what we did. To the house.

[Bill Simmons]

We could have thrown in a scene with a kid that went to college being like, my mom's been fucking batshit.

[Mallory Rubin]

For like, a year.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to get to Caitlin in a second.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, next one, the Ouija board scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question. This is a great one.

[Bill Simmons]

I have multiple things I wrote down here, including, has there ever been a bad Ouija board scene? Ever? There has been.

[Chris Ryan]

No. No. Is there a bad Ouija board scene?

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't ever remember watching a movie in any capacity or a TV show or anything where they're like, like, let's bring out the Ouija board. It always works. I'm always like, how can you guys do this?

[Chris Ryan]

Have you ever done a Ouija board?

[Bill Simmons]

I would never.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure, ever, ever do that when I was a kid.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. When you, like, pretend, you say you light some candles, you sit in a circle.

[Craig]

Yeah. We use them in, like, middle school and high school stuff. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you don't know any better if you're a fucking adult using a Ouija board. Like, what are you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and look what happened. The lights flickered, the candle went out, and then Cooper. Great Cooper. Action. In this scene in particular, I have some notes for Cooper because, like, he obviously can sense that things are amiss. He won't go into his favorite spot of water to get his favorite ball anymore. But he hasn't, like, totally turned heel and abandoned his loyalty to Norman. But when he busts into the bathroom here, that scares the dog out of them.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I mean, I know you guys love dogs, but, like, I don't think he's making.

[Mallory Rubin]

Animals are the most intuitive, but he.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn'T understand the depths of Norman's depravity.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, can I break the tiebreaker here? I wrote down Cooper the dog. Just crushing it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Thank you. Bill gets it and always has.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was a great performance by him. He'd make a great dog. I thought he could have been a little more loyal.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, in a couple spots.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. But, like, when he barks, you know, when we see the muddy footprints and we worry it's going to be Warren and then it's Norman because they're late to dinner. Like, Cooper, on some level, he sensed something was amiss.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this leads right into her screaming at my guy. James remarried at the party, which was just a good payoff for the red herring.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife's. What does he say? My wife's right here.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't kill my wife.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't kill my wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Way too calm. She's right Here. Way too calm. Definitely. One of my unanswerable questions is that how many years into the future does Warren kill Mary? Because for sure, he kills her.

[Chris Ryan]

He just leaves her for a student.

[Bill Simmons]

Or maybe both.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not mutually exclusive.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, true.

[Bill Simmons]

Might have gone same game parlay tried to get both of those.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Old meddling lady at the party. And to her realizing Michelle Pfeiffer. Realizing who? Mef Madison Elizabeth.

[Chris Ryan]

But also, like, that's the point where she's starting to realize, like, oh, there's a huge chunk of my life that I don't remember. Like this. The car accident that I think is fine, that everybody else is so alarmed about and having this freak out at the party.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's how I. That's how I feel about all the podcasts I did in 2020.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're gone. They're gone.

[Bill Simmons]

I listen to them now. It's like somebody else did them.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have you ever had a moment where you're prone over a desk doing whatever you might be doing, and you look back, a gust of wind catches your ear, and then in the mirror, you see yourself potting about Alex pregnant?

[Bill Simmons]

It might be happening soon. It's like, oh, man, I did Saturday Night Fever with Jimmy Kimmel. This is gonna be good.

[Mallory Rubin]

How do you feel about red apples and lit candles near your genitals?

[Bill Simmons]

That. That. I didn't like the lit candles. I did not like that. You know what? I did like my next rewatchable scene. Possess Claire.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the best.

[Bill Simmons]

All caps. Yes. This is my most rewatchable scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's no question.

[Bill Simmons]

Pfeiffer just. Just breaking it out. You know, it's like spreading. I'll throw low 90s. But if you don't think I can still get to 101, watch this.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is 104.

[Chris Ryan]

It is hard because it's like, where she basically is like, I could have done Basic Instinct, you know, Like, I have this in my.

[Bill Simmons]

She had the side. Yeah, it was the side. She never really. She Fabulous Baker boy is probably the closest. A little. In Scarface, Dangerous Minds, they didn't want to go near there. And that's the one where they really could have. They cut out all the Andy Garcia stuff in that movie. But, yeah, she never really. She always wanted to kind of levitate above it. I respect it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's so great how long. Norm's just like, I'm kind of into this. You know what I mean? Like, for, like the. It's really, really, really takes it for a while.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, who can blame him, right? Like the apple. The frog bite of the apple. Very weird, very funny. Obviously disarming. But when she sits on the step, when she's waiting in the step of the office with the candle in front of her and opens her legs. I mean, come on. His expression there is absolutely priceless.

[Chris Ryan]

This is amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess Catwoman was probably the time she turned it on the most. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Catwoman is very sexy role.

[Bill Simmons]

You've seen that clip where she uses the whip and hits the five things all in sequence. And then the crew starts applauding for the.

[Chris Ryan]

For the Batman movie. No.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's like. It's one of those, like a camera far away. And she's like, all right, action. And she's like.

[Chris Ryan]

And everybody goes nuts.

[Bill Simmons]

And everyone's like.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, who can blame them? What do you think she whispers into his ear? Because there's like. I timed it. It's like 3.4 seconds. I'm not sure how quick I was on the train.

[Chris Ryan]

There isn't, like, any speculation about this. I looked for this online and I couldn't find any.

[Bill Simmons]

Not under subtitles either.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you think she whispered something very, very, very sexy or.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I think like naughty. Like X rated.

[Chris Ryan]

Because he's getting pretty fired up.

[Bill Simmons]

Like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A term that we've never heard.

[Chris Ryan]

Has that dress just in the back of the closet or. Or is that something she purchased special or.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think she has it around. You know, they're clearly like. They have some, like, galas, nights on the town. So in this. This stretch where, you know, we are obviously gonna see the flash of green, this. That's like the most iconic moment from the movie. Right? I mean, I guess you could say some of the bathtub reflections and stuff like that, but you know who. Glowing green eyes, your wife. That's like. Whether or not you've seen the film, you've seen that moment for sure. True.

[Bill Simmons]

Just a short one, but broken Claire jumping right into the lake. It's good. I like the way it shot. Possible great shot. Gordo for cr. Claire finds the buried chest leading into semi crying, confessing Harrison Ford, which. I'm just. Sorry, Mal. I'm giving him the Ruffalo hand of Ruben and Partridge over acting Word.

[Mallory Rubin]

What? Yeah, it's such a subtle.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think he was a good performance crier. I thought it was kind of bad.

[Chris Ryan]

He does a good. Like the prayer hands thing is good, but. Yeah, like what? He's. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

What should I have done? Should I sacrifice everything? Our marriage, my work that I spent my whole life I was compelled.

[Bill Simmons]

Claire redials four, one, one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And evil Harrison Ford is here, and he has some weird drug I've never heard of that paralyzes you.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it comes up earlier in the movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Chekhov's paralytic agent. Yeah, right. From earlier in the movie when she goes to the lab and they're like, yeah, somewhere between five to three seconds. And like, you can't move, but your mind, you know, you're aware of everything.

[Chris Ryan]

Halothane.

[Bill Simmons]

We should have given this to Sean when I was doing my top 50 rewatchable list. He's just paralyzed in his. Trying to, like, move his foot as I do. Limitless.

[Mallory Rubin]

Every five minutes, hit him with another.

[Bill Simmons]

Little dose I wrote down. Is this the paralyzing drug the Eagles give Jalen Hurts when they're up 20.

[Chris Ryan]

That's one for one, boy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, tough.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a fair question. Greg left.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very tough. Very, very tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on, take some shots at my team, guys.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'm just gonna wait. By the time this comes out, I think this is bad karma for you because by the time this comes out, you will have played.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like the.

[Chris Ryan]

Just keep that in mind.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Bill Simmons]

It's fair. I'll make a joke about the pats later. Try to reverse the karma drowning scene. And then car crash ending. Incredible job by the waterlog. Ghost, corpse. This is breaking through and saving the day.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I have to say I disagree with the appearance of the ghost in such a physical form in that place. Feel like in the mo for the most part. For the rest of the movie. It's like a suggestion. It's a image in the mirror, you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Know, taking over the computer kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

That kind of thing. I guess that's. I guess that's like you're going to play the ghost. It's Jim. So they can move around a little bit more.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

But it was just like Harrison Ford. Seeing her and getting yanked basically was. I just thought broke a little bit of a fourth wall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why don't you want a woman to be in control of her own body?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm fine with it. Just play by the same rules for the entire movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Tarantino texted Zemeckis and was like, my one nitpick.

[Chris Ryan]

Not enough feet.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like the corpse. On the bright side, the feet stuff was great.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your most rewatchable?

[Chris Ryan]

I honestly think it might be that dinner scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, wow.

[Chris Ryan]

I really think it's very cool. I know that. The obvious one.

[Bill Simmons]

Number two for me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Desktop possess for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Possessed Pfeiffer's the best. What's the most 2000 thing about this movie? I have slow modem speeds and not having a cell phone camera as proof for your suspicions on something.

[Chris Ryan]

I had having to drive a distance to get a cell phone signal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I had hitting redial on a landline to see if somebody called before.

[Bill Simmons]

That's good.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Special category. We don't give a get to give it away that often. The Amanda Dobbins award for best piece of real estate.

[Mallory Rubin]

The house.

[Bill Simmons]

So Addison, Vermont. Banks of Lake Champlain and they built this from scratch. 3,500 square foot Nantucket style. And did so much filming in the bathroom that they made five different bathrooms. Probably, arguably, arguably the most bathroom filming.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

In a movie there's a lot of.

[Chris Ryan]

Bathrooms and train spotting.

[Bill Simmons]

Eyes Wide Shut. We're in the bathroom for a while. Attraction. We're in there for a little bit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is it.

[Craig]

It's not the master bathroom though, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

It is. It's like there's a door from the hallway end from their bedroom.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I thought that was odd that they're always entering like off the stairwell.

[Mallory Rubin]

You would have gone further with the renovation is what I'm hearing.

[Craig]

Maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think an ensuite bathroom shouldn't have a hallway entrance?

[Craig]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I agree with you on this.

[Bill Simmons]

Needs like a better door lock if you're going to do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, sadly they tore the house down after filming. Doesn't need local building codes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wasn't like a real house in Vermont. It's just like a shell.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They filmed some stuff in LA too. What stage? The best. I have a bunch but what do you have anything good?

[Chris Ryan]

Casting Harrison Ford as a guy who tries to kill his wife after the Fugitive where he plays a guy who's wrongly accused of killing his wife.

[Bill Simmons]

No question.

[Chris Ryan]

I like how Zemeckis is constantly subtly moving the camera so that it feels like you are watching Michelle Pfeiffer from a ghost pov. Steven Soderbergh just made a movie that is. It is this presence where you're. It's like a haunted house movie from the ghost's perspective. But this is really cool because like you can always see like whenever Michelle Pfeiffer is walking around, like the camera's just kind of always slowly following her but then like kind of going back and it just feels like something is always watching her. So I always really liked that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like that.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Mallory Rubin]

Mel? I think on the like Chekhov's X list. That's a pretty fun part of it. We already talked about the. The paralyzing agent, the mystery key, the newspaper clipping from the Dupont Ch. And how key that's gonna be. No cell service until you get to the middle of the bridge. You know, the boat being hooked to the bed of the truck, like all of these little things. I think we will, I assume, talk later about maybe the parts of the script that don't quite measure up, but I think the. Like, this is actually. We're telling you this or showing you this because it is going to prove vital in the final stretch that's successful.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that as well. The subtle foreshadowing. I like when movies kind of plant like these little seemingly harmless things and then circles back at dinner. Like, oh, yeah, she can't get.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like we're not in this lab for no reason. You know, just because she's visiting him at work.

[Bill Simmons]

Like we're about anymore that matters. My daughter's generation, they're on their phone during that first part of the movie and they completely.

[Chris Ryan]

They're just like, what's. What the hell?

[Bill Simmons]

Why can't he get receptions again?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I'll tell you what no generation could possibly miss. It's the Symbolism 101 stuff on display in the Adamant Trip that you would have preferred to remove from the movie. Oh, is this a little too, like. Like obvious on the nose? Maybe. But I actually think in this movie it's very effective and it works. You have the. The shop is called Sleeping Dog. Right? Come on. Right. The Georgia o' Keeffe esque design of the pendant and the, like, sigil on the jewelry box, which is basically like a mashup of a heart, a flower and a vagina. Like, what could be more perfect for the thing to be deck your mistress with. And then the Celtic knot on the key. Because that's like an interesting one. Because of course, you have all the different aspects of that symbolism. You know, unity, faith, love, et cetera. But also this idea of like unending life with a ghostly specter. And also just the triple. The triple aspect of it, the trio. I think that's kind of, again, not subtle, very 101, but kind of fun to look for on a rewatch.

[Bill Simmons]

I had famous movie stars in a well done movie, which we discussed earlier. I had Vermont as a scary movie location.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I had any super attractive actress playing the cello. Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, always good.

[Chris Ryan]

Any other examples of that?

[Bill Simmons]

I couldn't come up with any, but I just feel like that's gonna work. I have dangerous bath scenes, but also dangerous things happening in a bathroom. We spend so much time in bathrooms.

[Chris Ryan]

Harrison. There's not a ton of horror on the sink. Is one of my worst fears.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

For myself, not for Harrison.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, like just going into your bathroom and the bathtub's full and you didn't fill it up.

[Chris Ryan]

That happened to me once. Yeah. That when we got back from vacation once, there was like a clog and the bath, like, just the drip had filled up the entire bathtub.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. Cr.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Fatal Attraction. I think in this is in the finals for best bathroom scene. We did Fatal Attraction a long time ago.

[Mallory Rubin]

We sure did.

[Bill Simmons]

We spent most of the time talking about how he came home after two days of fucking Glenn Close and gave his dog spaghetti meatballs, which is the single worst thing anyone's ever done in a movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely demented.

[Bill Simmons]

Mallory. Mallory's still upset.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fucking demented.

[Bill Simmons]

Violation of the dog owner.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, God.

[Bill Simmons]

Speaking of dogs.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Cooper.

[Bill Simmons]

When dogs know something is wrong, evil or off in some way. Always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know. They always know.

[Mallory Rubin]

They do. Animals are very intuitive. They really are.

[Bill Simmons]

And then this is an amazing one. You won't be prepared for this one. For what stage is the best. This was a big deal for me and my high school friends in 2000. My friend Scott Carino, who I went to high school with and moved to LA to try to become an actor and was in like extra Melrose Place 90210. And kind of the biggest thing I think he did. He's the dead husband in the photo of Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the worst friend.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

My high school friend Scott Corinna.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's in two of the photos. And my. My buddy Jeff, the. My best friend. The guy the Halloween. I've talked about him on the pod. Who loved Corinne, was a big character for us. And he was like the highlight of 2000.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have any idea, like, what does somebody get paid for something like that?

[Bill Simmons]

You get paid as an extra. We asked him. Okay. You get like. It's like single still. Whatever. I don't know. If you don't get a speaking line so you don't get that part, but you get.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right the.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever. But yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

They get residuals.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, basically he was married to Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Craig]

If you're non union icon.

[Chris Ryan]

I should have.

[Bill Simmons]

I should have taken a picture of it and showed you guys.

[Craig]

Probably got like 500 bucks.

[Chris Ryan]

That's crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's another real 2000s aspect of this movie too, is like the physical photo album.

[Chris Ryan]

I know. And also keeping newspaper articles and stuff like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't have. You just have your camera on your phone. You're not gonna, like, sit down and spookily discover something in your hands in your basement anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

So obviously I was.

[Mallory Rubin]

You.

[Bill Simmons]

What was Pfeiffer like? And just. They photoshopped this thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna say there's no way he actually got to take those pictures.

[Bill Simmons]

He did have some good Melrose Play stories.

[Chris Ryan]

That's good.

[Mallory Rubin]

I bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Apparently Vanessa Marcel was really attractive. Still remember that from way back when. Great check order award. What do you have? Cr.

[Chris Ryan]

When she comes down at the fence and the eye is in the. When she's looking through the fence and then the eye is right there.

[Bill Simmons]

That is batting a thousand. When people do that when they're looking through the thing and then the face comes on the other side. I don't know if that's ever not worked. Hey. New category. The Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award goes to. Harris Support.

[Chris Ryan]

Again. Way to go.

[Bill Simmons]

We only give it to Harris ford. Guy's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game.

[Craig]

That was my flex.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. He looks perfect.

[Craig]

We got to change the name of the category.

[Mallory Rubin]

He looks perfect.

[Craig]

He's seven years older than Richard Kimball. Dr. Norman Spencer. And he's way 3% less body fat.

[Chris Ryan]

Than I gotta say. Because I know that this is coming out on Monday, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

We get shirtless Sam Elliott in this episode of Landman. And it's fucking incredible. Like, it looks like he's carved out of a tree trunk. It's unbelievable. And it's very similar body type to 57.

[Craig]

And you could argue Kimball makes more sense than this guy. This guy's 57. He's allegedly obsessed with his work. Always at work. He lives in Vermont. It's raining all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

Why is this guy so chiseled to two responses. One, he's constantly jamming on undergrads. And two, okay, he's boating.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's sex. Muscles.

[Mallory Rubin]

Come back to that. Because I have a. I have a counterpoint to the constantly part of that.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is a one and done.

[Mallory Rubin]

Back to that. Another category. Put a pin in it. But, you know, they boat, right? They talk about taking drives. They're active. I mean, maybe it's not.

[Craig]

Well, they're sailing.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're like. I think it's just.

[Craig]

Yeah, they're more Ripped than any current NFL quarterback in this movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Movie. He looks great.

[Chris Ryan]

And he probably eats like three bowls of Wheaties in the morning. Yeah. Has a piece of toast, the occasional.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bite of a red apple from his possessed wife's hands. You know. Diet of Champions.

[Craig]

Why is he so jacked? Was there a movie before this that he needed to be?

[Mallory Rubin]

If you gave him always been in shape.

[Bill Simmons]

Imagine if you gave him like the peptides or some of the stuff the athletes use. Would he just turn into like, Barry Bonds?

[Chris Ryan]

But that's like.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, but that's.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what makes him so aspirational.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

Like a real body.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. It's like, yeah. When he's chugging lemonade in Witness, you're like, yeah, I do think that sugar.

[Craig]

The scientist Norman Spencer Award for inappropriate body more than Kimball.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

It is better because he's older. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just always. It always makes sense. It always makes sense to me. He was Indiana Jones. I don't know what to say.

[Bill Simmons]

Sierra's got a flex category.

[Chris Ryan]

In honor of fantasy, let's do the stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria. Orgasm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Most of the furious plot is an homage. An homage to Rear Window. The Claire Madison ghost lookalike like stuff is all Vertigo. And the score, the Alen Silvestri score is a homage to Bernard Herman's just cranking Hitchcock.

[Bill Simmons]

And all the to toe stuff was an homage to Tarantino. It's a secret surprise for his buddy. Oh, the M. Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly.

[Chris Ryan]

Young, it's his last, last possession.

[Bill Simmons]

With the go five out offense. Just go in the corner.

[Mallory Rubin]

So I'm torn because on the one hand, I think the fact that we pull away from all of the, like, glimpses of what their sex life is like is like, part of what adds to the tantalizing nature of it. So at the beginning, you know, when Caitlyn is still around, it's still like, we'll be quiet. Quick and quiet. I don't want to be either. Mm. You're like, I would just watch them fuck. Of course. But the fact that we don't feels appropriate for where we are in the movie. Then we get to the first night as empty nesters and they can hear Warren and Mary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Decibels rising along with that erection. Right. They're going at it. Close the windows. No, open them. Think we can take them? It's worth a try. And we get again, like the leg over the shoulder. He's going down on her. Like, this is like a. When I watch the rest of the scene happily and without complaint, but it's fun to just, like, get a little glimpse of what their life is like. You know, you want to fool around. She's pretending to read, waiting for him to finish his work. You get the sense that this could just be every night in their life. And then, of course, we learn that there's a period of time where it wasn't, and that is why he strayed. Also, he's a sociopath. And then the desk scene. I mean, the biting of the lip, the tearing of the shirt. That scene is, like, pretty close to perfect. So I don't know where else.

[Chris Ryan]

That seems like it's more his feet. That seems like it's what he's looking for in the bedroom.

[Mallory Rubin]

A torn shirt and a bit lip. And he's like, put. He's pretending like it's too rough. But that's part of the game. Yes, that's part of the game. Yeah. See, I think what Norman really wants is, like, he wants. When he's looking at her on the step with the candle and the apple and legs wide, he definitely wants to just sit there and, like, watch her masturbate. That's their vibe, I think, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So we could have gotten that. That would have been great.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just a shame I didn't have any thoughts.

[Mallory Rubin]

Could we have gotten a Madison flashback? Like, could Madison have somehow shown us something about their sex as a point of contrast? Obviously, the physical resemblance that is incorporated into the plot of the movie could have been used to Dupus. Where we think we're watching Claire and Norman and realize we're watching Madison and.

[Bill Simmons]

Norman, for the most part, he shied away from the sex. Sex stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Ford.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, this is like Jim Dennison, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Think, is the furthest he went.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pumping away on the desk.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the Polinsky one where he's running around in Paris, frantic.

[Mallory Rubin]

He starts cocaine in a toilet stall in that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

That's very crazy. Sex scene in that movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a lot of sexual energy in that movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, speaking of sexual energy, the Dennis Peck relationship test is our next category.

[Chris Ryan]

Real category.

[Mallory Rubin]

Name.

[Bill Simmons]

Rewatchable.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Exact. Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

Come on. Named after the Dennis Pek. I'm going to make your wife come.

[Bill Simmons]

So the mailbag. The question of this was, I think.

[Craig]

It'S, I'm going to teach your wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Teach your wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Teach your wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get the.

[Mallory Rubin]

More that's an Important distinction.

[Bill Simmons]

It was about how strong was the key relationship in the movie. Could Dennis Peek have basically uprooted it? And by doing Dennis Peek stuff, would you leave the female character alone with Dennis Peck for 15 minutes? Could he get to her? I would say wholeheartedly, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

I think she was even kind of struck by Raymar. She was just like, this guy's throwing off some interesting energy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because she's still here in that movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Little spurn from the Affair.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Still in the back of her head.

[Chris Ryan]

She's always just kind of like this guy in his research paper.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Dennis Peck comes over, hits the front door the next day. Hey, I heard there's some commotion over here.

[Chris Ryan]

The stadies from Vermont there takes the lock.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe calls a lock locksmith to deal with the door.

[Bill Simmons]

What's a beautiful lady like you doing alone?

[Mallory Rubin]

My computers on the fritz. An electrician to deal with the power stretches.

[Chris Ryan]

Polo tucked into his jeans.

[Bill Simmons]

He's just locked in.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Anybody could blow up the marriage. I mean, obviously that's part of the point.

[Bill Simmons]

But certainly this is easy. It's not. This is like child's play.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's almost like this is spring training for this category.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, he. He. The thing for him would be he would probably not do it. Tantalize her with the. That she thinks they're gonna do it, and then just keep.

[Chris Ryan]

His bigger challenge would probably be going after Harrison Ford.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna say it's really about gonna get Norman. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have?

[Chris Ryan]

I gotta say, I think they left a little bit on the table with Jody. I think she could have been a little witchier. And I think if you get me Laura Sangiacomo or Linda Fiorentino, like somebody.

[Bill Simmons]

Who could also sultry Italians.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, here's the thing. Her admission that she has known that Norman has been cheating on her for a year is not ride or die behavior.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible.

[Chris Ryan]

And would be like in any other movie or in another version of this movie. You'd be like, oh, maybe Jody and Norman have a little thing going.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or maybe she hopes they will. I had this as a picky.

[Bill Simmons]

My wife had that pick as well.

[Chris Ryan]

But if you throw somebody terrible friend off.

[Mallory Rubin]

Awful. And the excuse of, like, you know, the car accident. And you were in such a state and Norman was in such a state. It's like, who gives a shit if, you know, my husband is fucking someone else? Tell me. We're supposed to be best friends. But especially once I have asked you to start coming to my home to sit on the bathroom floor with a Ouija board. And, you know, I'm going through it at that point. Definitely tell me.

[Chris Ryan]

But Jody's also like, I got this car to pick up dudes. And it's like, I'm kind of. I'm kind of want to know a little bit more about that. And I would have loved a little bit of a suggestion that she had something for normal.

[Bill Simmons]

My Butch's girlfriend was, who the fuck is cheating on Michelle Pfeiffer? So come on.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right, I have a question for you about this. Is there a way you can swing this the other to the other direction and say that this is actually kind of like. Rather than being either inconceivable, which I agree. It is.

[Bill Simmons]

He just has to have, like, a sex addiction that. I'll accept that answer.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a part of, like, when you.

[Bill Simmons]

First confront it, or like, she's post, post, postpartum depression.

[Mallory Rubin]

It seems impossible that Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer that their characters.

[Chris Ryan]

What does he say? He's like, we were having problems.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And yes, he's like, we were struggling. And that gives you an excuse to fuck your students. But is there a way you can swing this? Instead of saying, like, okay, well, people, when you're married, you never really know another person. The anxiety. You watch this movie, you're like, oh, my God. If, like, Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford can't figure it out, what hope do the rest of us have? Have I swing the other way with it? I think it's like a kind of positive, empowering thing when you're like, if even Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer are going through it, maybe we're all doing okay, actually.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, w. For all of us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Marriage is hard.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe you could get through the next Ravens Broncos playoff game if it ever happens.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not in the same room. Not in the same room.

[Bill Simmons]

Not in the same room.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, we can't. Oh, no. When we lived in New York and they played in the playoffs, I took a train to Baltimore. And then more recently, we watched in different rooms.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you with Adam?

[Mallory Rubin]

We make Halo pick between a mini.

[Bill Simmons]

Hello for the Flacco ADR touchdown game.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, I went to Baltimore.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, so you didn't watch that with him?

[Mallory Rubin]

No. You stayed in New York and I went to Baltimore to watch with my dad.

[Bill Simmons]

And you stayed dating after that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we're still married, so.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, believe it or not, that's a fucking traumatic game. I mean, that's like the most traumatic football loss of the last 15 years.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't remember. What was that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Some.

[Chris Ryan]

What was that? Broncos team.

[Bill Simmons]

It was. The game's over. Flacco throws big. Hail Mary Jones to Jacoby Jones.

[Mallory Rubin]

Miracle at Mile High.

[Bill Simmons]

It's ridiculous. It's. It's. Every time it's on Twitter. I watch it and I'm like, I just can't fucking believe he got behind the defense when they're on their own 20 with like 30 seconds left.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the worst. We talked about a lot of this already. I. My big one was not recognizing immediately when your wife is possessed. Unless you think that he did, but he was kind of into it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he does, like, knock her off of him at that point.

[Bill Simmons]

But there's like about two minutes there where you should know, like, wait, what's going on?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you acting like this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other would say it's worse.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a very funny point when Norm takes the spells and incantations book.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's great.

[Chris Ryan]

And writes down on a legal pad. Proposed suggestion. Exorcism. Dash by fire.

[Craig]

Ex.

[Chris Ryan]

Like with underlining fire.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's great.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just like a very funny cutaway. It was not taking process and more. We've talked about the trailer. We talked about everything. But I just find this movie too unerotic to be considered an erotic thriller. And every time I start this movie, I'm like, oh, this is a really horny movie. And it's just not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I don't. I never felt like it was an erotic thriller. I always just felt like it was scary movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Sort of pitched that way in the trailer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pitch that way in the trailer. And certain scenes we get there. But I. I agree with you. I think so this is where I'll come back to your constantly. Yes. The undergrads.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's interrogate.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is my. Whats age? The worst. We've. Like you said, we've hit a lot of the other ones. The idea that it is rare for somebody to find Norman Spencer, played by Harrison Ford, attractive. The one line borderline disqualified.

[Craig]

It's that one line. He's like.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then out of nowhere, young woman finds me attractive. Like this has never happened.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Again, in. In Indy, the undergrads are lowering their. Their eyes so that he can see written across their eyelids. I love you like I want to you.

[Craig]

You get the sense this should not be abnormal that Norman is scrambling though, to like come up with things to say.

[Chris Ryan]

Almost. Thing is that there's just this Russian nesting doll of lies with him where it's like, first it's, no, I didn't do anything. Then it was she killed herself. Then it was I murdered her. So if you're really telling me that.

[Mallory Rubin]

You turn myself in. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And then if you're so if you're telling me this is the one time this has happened, it's like, no, it's the one time you got caught.

[Bill Simmons]

Possible serial killer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you think they all look.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Mal, you have a flex category.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, okay, let's see. We've done the. Did the movie need a better sex scene? We've already talked about Cooper, so maybe not. Not Brandy Booth time. Should we talk about Cooper some more and do Brandy Booth? Let's do Brandy Booth or most gifable moment.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, let's do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fortune 3 Club. Let's do that. That's a. There's some gifable moment. If this movie came out now, it would be like meme central. I would pick. I would pick when Norman when she's in the tub and he. What's that with the necklace? And pulls her forward. And then when he leans Claire back, it's Madison's rotting dead corpse. And he kind of like throws himself back, hand acting again, crashes into the mirror, falls and hits his head. That would be my most gifable moment. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Could Luke Wilson have carried this movie? Sierra?

[Chris Ryan]

I think he would have been an interesting Norman, cuz I think you would have been like you. You wouldn't have had. He's an attractive guy, but he's not like top five, hall of fame, all time, hottest dudes ever, where you're like, yeah, you would not have a. Of confidence.

[Bill Simmons]

Honey, what's going on?

[Mallory Rubin]

Gosh.

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you acting that way? Cool.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks, Craig.

[Chris Ryan]

My honest take, if we're being honest, Claire took takes one look at Norman when he's sailing and all is forgiven. Like that. The vibes he is throwing off on the boat. He's got the dad hat on, barber jacket.

[Bill Simmons]

He's got his award for being a doctor.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's go to an air. Let's go to a BNB and just like leaf peep for a little bit. Like, let's do this. She's just like, whatever. Madison rip. There's no way she's carrying.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

Carrying this case any further.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love this.

[Chris Ryan]

She's like, I got it pretty good. This guy's working on RNA vaccines, you know, like. Like we got this great house. He's got tenure. I can cello around a little bit. Work on the roses.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, sure. He tells me I have to go to therapy, but the therapist gives me fireballs in the middle of the session. Like, it's not so bad.

[Bill Simmons]

I like this. Like my house. These are good.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Great one, but you can say what happened.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right. Mine is if you're going to kill me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't do it in the same way you killed your mistress who you cheated on me with. It's just insulting.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's like a double whammy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This isn't even the hottest take. It's.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's another way work a little harder, you know? And he's like, you had no idea how hard it was to hold her under the water. It's like us. He did in the bathtub. That's why she's haunting the bathtub. You use the paralyzing agent. Like, come on, man.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm your fucking too sick for us to speculate on what would be an appropriate way to kill Claire.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's do it right now. That's what the podcast is for.

[Chris Ryan]

You might want to cut this out because it's going to sound sick, but like choker with her own cello strings.

[Bill Simmons]

Little more signature move.

[Mallory Rubin]

He was really. He was ready for this. He was ready for this.

[Craig]

You had that ready.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I considered this, but it was. That's just off the.

[Bill Simmons]

Then it's like somebody would think when Dennis Peck comes over to try to solve the crime. He thinks it was like a former student.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is great. It's a good use of the basement, too, because we're sort of, like, presented with the basement. Like, something really terrible is going to happen there. And then it doesn't.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

This is a good possible category murdering conciliari. To try to figure out if it was the best possible way they could have killed somebody.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I like this Buffalo Bill, maybe buffalo. Like, don't play with your food. You know, like, it's just like, make you make. Let's get it for.

[Bill Simmons]

With she got to size 12. We're good to go. You don't need a size 14 here, buddy.

[Mallory Rubin]

We have enough skin. He also just had, like, the doctors, the paramedics at the bathtub for the fake electrocution. It's like too much attention on the bathtub. This is just sloppy stuff from Norman mine.

[Bill Simmons]

I went a little hotter than you guys. I think this is an even better don't have an affair could ruin your life movie than Fatal Attraction. I think this goes actually worse than it did Fatal Attraction. It's fine. At the end, Glenn Close is dead. Everyone thinks it was her fault. And he's back to the house he just got. This is like. Yeah, Dream house. He put all this time in, kind of got away with it. The fucking ghost. It was the one thing he didn't count on. And then ends up drowning in the lake with the ghost.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He ends up having to deal with that for the rest of his life.

[Mallory Rubin]

Life.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just. It's just worse.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, if I'm. If I'm Norman, I'm really mad that the. The therapist did not make more progress with her. I mean, like he only a couple sessions. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what you have for Vermont therapist take her to the city.

[Chris Ryan]

She's gone to Burlington.

[Mallory Rubin]

As final resting places go, though. I mean, as stated. What a beautiful lake.

[Bill Simmons]

It's tough though. Really dark in the bottom of these lakes.

[Chris Ryan]

You really feel like you're rotting away down there too. Not that I've considered that either.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough one. Casting what ifs. We don't have any. Because Z is like, I want these two.

[Chris Ryan]

For one of the first times in the history of this category, Harrison Ford turned down the Perfect Storm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

To do what Lies Beneath. So it winds up becoming a casting what ifs for Perfect Storm. Really?

[Bill Simmons]

And it ends up becoming a thank God, because I think that Boston accent would have twisted him around.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He really had hard on for boats at this point. He was just like, I gotta get on a boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't care what ranch. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Best that Guy award. Who'd you have?

[Chris Ryan]

I'd. Ray Baker.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's a winner. The James Remar award for a movie with James Remar in it. He wins. James Remar.

[Chris Ryan]

What about but for Dion Waiters, would you go Joe Morton, the therapist.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't think Jody is Dion Waiters?

[Bill Simmons]

I had Ghost Lady.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, Madison.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No lines.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is Jody in it too much to be Dion Waiters?

[Bill Simmons]

I thought she would us.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wish.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like the number four lead.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Interesting. You, dude is so. To us, of course. Well, not to you, but to those of us who have seen the Lord of the Rings, Miranda Otto is Awen, obviously. But to you. Are you like Miranda Otto? Oh, that guy is. Because you don't have no relationship to Ayn. You have no relationship to the Lord of the Rings.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not going to ring a bell.

[Mallory Rubin]

For she's a shield maiden of Rohan. Nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

Was that English?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. She Was. She was one of the horse ladies. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just saw your lips break.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you. Did you do the extended editions?

[Craig]

No, they wanted me to just do the regular first.

[Mallory Rubin]

Come on, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Really?

[Craig]

You think I should have started with the extended.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's they?

[Craig]

The Liz's two brothers who love these movies. I watch them all.

[Mallory Rubin]

You should only watch extended editions from here.

[Craig]

Back to back to back.

[Chris Ryan]

I watched in one day. Or how many?

[Craig]

One each day.

[Chris Ryan]

That's awesome.

[Mallory Rubin]

Give you credit for watching one of the three best trilogies ever made. Come on. Congrats.

[Craig]

Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director city. I like CR's Laura Giacomo.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I also as the. As the friend.

[Chris Ryan]

Lawrence. Laura Sangia. Giacomo is Giacomo. Jody, talk me through a couple of my ideas here for other directors.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

So obviously bdp, get De Palma in there.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be great. That would be. That would honestly be.

[Bill Simmons]

I think there's a lot coming right out of Snake Eyes too. Pretty good move.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot more like long crane shots going from the furious house back.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Back and forth. Two scenes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Quits out when he insists on the masturbation bathtub scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

She walks off the set. Sharon Stone's right there.

[Chris Ryan]

She's in another one. Fincher.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would also be amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, he basically. Panic room is slightly. His version of this. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then the last one I was thinking of was Adrian Line.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, getting horny.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably need worse actors.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Supernatural Horny. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like all of those.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. Yeah. With that one, you're probably going Richard Gear. He's available.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here would be a great Gear would be a great Norman.

[Chris Ryan]

And then here would be an amazing Norm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here would be a great Norman.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Kelly Preston. No. Probably too. No.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's a good cellist? Oh, who could I see?

[Bill Simmons]

We'll come back to that. Let's take a break. And then Craig has a flex category. I forgot. Craig already did his flex category. So we'll go half ass. Internet research. A shockingly dismal amount of research on this movie. I was surprised. I made almost $300 million. The only thing that I found that was interesting was Michelle Pfeiffer's fear of water and saying how she had to lie in a bathtub for five hours at a time. That really made me think about what I would want as an actor at that point. Like, I'm sure they're wearing a bathing suit, but, like, how warm would it have to be? Would they have to keep making it hotter?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Oh, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

I just had a lot Of. I was really interested in that. There was no other research.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, what's the entertainment? Because, you know, when I'm in the bath listening to the watch, I listen to the watch. That's what I do when I'm in the bath. That's my.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you really genuinely.

[Mallory Rubin]

I will say I have. I don't know if I've shared this update with you in the video podcasting era. It's like too weird, but for.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're naked watching your friend Chris.

[Chris Ryan]

No, she's naked listening to her.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I mean.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. This thing watching. Yeah. Just a relaxing evening in the tub.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, do you fast forward the eight minutes of foreplay at the top and go right to the show or do you go foreplay first?

[Mallory Rubin]

Those are my favorite eight minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

There's. It's a 5050 thing where it's like some people hate it and some people love.

[Mallory Rubin]

Those are my favorite.

[Chris Ryan]

The entire spectrum of watch list.

[Mallory Rubin]

My favorite friendship. But yeah. So what's. What podcast is. Is Claire Spencer listening to. You know, if this is a. A period of time where there's podcasting.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, she's definitely rerunning back serial.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, she.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Or she knows what happened. She didn't know if she missed a couple things.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's a. That's a spin on this is where instead of like the this vibe, it's more like only murders in the building. You know, she's like, I've learned a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

Something was wrong by looking at her wrapped. It's like, hey, Claire.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of a ghost is living with me.

[Bill Simmons]

He sneaks on her phone and our Instagram algorithm for the. For you stuff, and it's like, what is going on?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why is your top bookmark missing persons?

[Bill Simmons]

Everything's haunted or missing.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Apex Mountain, Fifer and Ford.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, absolutely not.

[Bill Simmons]

Ghost movies. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Cheating husband comeuppance movies. Maybe Remar. No. Haunted house movies. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Zus. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Waterlog corpse coming back to life and coming involved in the plot.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, there's some Pirates of the Caribbean horses.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Caribbean.

[Bill Simmons]

Do we have this in the finals for Naked Caribbean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Naked ghost bodies with the Shining. Oh, I think Jack looks in the mirror and all of a sudden it's like a gross lady.

[Chris Ryan]

To me, that's like a 1 versus 16 seed.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't have any Apex Mounds Cinematic Vermont they could have done. I feel like this is a moment bad. Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Good.

[Bill Simmons]

I like it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That or Grown Ups too. Where they film grown Ups too.

[Chris Ryan]

Grown Ups to off the top of my head.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're the best.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a big kids movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My kids love grown ups too. We own it.

[Chris Ryan]

Kids Cruiser Hanks. I have Hanks just because he's a Bobby Zus.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm shocked. I'm astonished.

[Bill Simmons]

Evil Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's. It's Zemeckis's guy.

[Bill Simmons]

This is one of your worst. I hope this is your worst call of 2026. Yeah, I really do. I hope we've peaked right here.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean so clearly for this and not for I would killed Michelle Pfeiffer with.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's why you're. That's why you're the best. That's why you're like Cruz.

[Bill Simmons]

Think of all the things Cruz would want to do in this.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's obviously Cruz.

[Bill Simmons]

He would want to turn evil at the end.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He would want to have like the sexy scene for sure. He would want to have the. The scene when he realizes she's possessed and is trying to get away from her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I think Chris is right.

[Chris Ryan]

Counterpoint.

[Craig]

I think Chris is right.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruz. What?

[Craig]

I think it's Hank.

[Chris Ryan]

Cruz has just done my up marriage movie with Eyes Wide Shut. He's not going to go do what.

[Bill Simmons]

Lies that he point.

[Chris Ryan]

This is exactly if. If Hanks was caring about like counter programming his image but he can't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. If we're going to bring in the. Where are they in their real schedules then Hanks is consideration do this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

And lose weight at the same time.

[Mallory Rubin]

What about the growing the beard?

[Chris Ryan]

Why can't Norman have a beard?

[Mallory Rubin]

He I I'm sorry but when Claire is running her fingers through Norman's pectoral chest hair. Have you seen. You can't be like you've been alone lancing your gums with a on an island. That's just not the vibe Castaway.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh true.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's not.

[Craig]

I don't know if you factor in like this the shooting schedules of these.

[Mallory Rubin]

Actors when he's the one who brought it up. I just was mentioning he's not going to up marriages in a row.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm trying to say Tom Hanks is doing the kind of counter programming that Harrison Ford is doing in this film. If Tom Hanks is in this movie, it plays against everything we think about Tom Hanks.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure. That's true.

[Chris Ryan]

Tom Cruise coming off of Eyes Wide Shut you're like, yeah, that guy is a fucked up husband. He does Go to the Fidelio parties.

[Craig]

Tom Cruise out crazies. Feifer, like.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly right.

[Craig]

Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

You.

[Craig]

You need that.

[Bill Simmons]

A rare tie. Two to two ties guy.

[Craig]

I would never expect it from Hanks. And, like you wouldn't expect it from your friend Harrison Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

I could see Cruz in do. Doing the tour for this. The media tour being like, Bob came to me just doing, like, the crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Energy Cruz demands to do his. To do his own stunt from under the tarp of the boat.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have that to water ski or something. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

In the truck. Like, that would have been great.

[Bill Simmons]

Scorsese or Spielberg? Spielberg. Spielberg.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, Spielberg passed on it.

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Like he didn't want to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

This movie's in the Spielberg area.

[Chris Ryan]

There is a Cape Fear version of this movie that Scorsese does, but it's probably Spielberg. Is the answer here.

[Bill Simmons]

New category. Good hang, bad hang.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm in.

[Bill Simmons]

I present to you the Spencers. I think good dinner date. Hanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Good dinner date.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't know. Claire might have a couple drinks.

[Chris Ryan]

We're a little bit more fun.

[Bill Simmons]

But think about, like, who are you going out with tonight? The Spencers.

[Mallory Rubin]

Spencers.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened with that lady? She had that car accident.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. She's off the rails. I hope she gets a couple drinks today.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I would like to go to a party with dispensers. A double date with them would be tough because you got.

[Bill Simmons]

You wouldn't want to do dinner?

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's just that Norman's gonna be whining about his dad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

And Claire's gonna be like, oh, kind of thinking about the ghost in my house. And it's like, you know, you need.

[Bill Simmons]

People to drive home and talk about the Spencers. Like, oh, my God, how crazy is Claire?

[Chris Ryan]

I would rather have seen.

[Bill Simmons]

We're at the other.

[Chris Ryan]

The cocktail party. Madison shows up. Claire blacks out. Richard fucking car accident. Like, that's something you talk about for the rest of the year.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're saying Spencer's bad hang.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I thought we were gonna do good hang, bad hang. The Spencer's. Like, would you rather hang out with Norman or Claire?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm giving you the Spencers as a combo.

[Mallory Rubin]

The only way you want to hang out with the Spencers. It's only a good hang if you're swinging. That's it. Unless they're. They're up to swing.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, do you think Norm.

[Bill Simmons]

Like swinging. Like swinging.

[Chris Ryan]

Swinging between good hang. Getting strange.

[Bill Simmons]

Great hang.

[Chris Ryan]

And working on his paper. Do you think Norm's watched a single socks game that summer.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Where were the Red Sox? In the background.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the Trot and troy season, right? 2000.

[Bill Simmons]

2000. 99.

[Chris Ryan]

2000.

[Bill Simmons]

That was Carl Everett.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

That was when he bumped the umpire and the season went to hell. How was that? That game? God damn it. Why did he do that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

It's probably what drove Norm over.

[Bill Simmons]

The Ed came home angry and immediately wrote a column for 7,500 people picking nits.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God, there are so many.

[Bill Simmons]

We spent so much time on James Remar, and then it's never heard from again. Forty minutes into the movie. Is that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The red herring thing. Do you like that, or do you wish he had circled back in some way?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that they needed to pop up again. I think, like, Mary, should he have.

[Bill Simmons]

Come over near the end?

[Chris Ryan]

Mary should have, like, saved her or something? Like, maybe Mary comes in and Norman hits her. And that's what makes it like, Norman has to kill Claire now. Like, I don't know. Like, there needed to be something.

[Bill Simmons]

I like that a lot. And I. I think one of those two had to come in the house, be like, what's going on in here? And then.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Gets hit by a candlestick.

[Craig]

Raymar's wife's like, hysteria at the beginning of the movie just kind of being like, brushed off as a norm. Like, that was completely bizarre.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Craig]

It was too much of a red herring.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Well, I mean, it obviously sets up a big chunk of, like, her investigating that. That to ultimately realize that's not a Picking it in that stretch, though, on the real estate front. Why are we peeking through the fence and standing on rocks to look over and slicing our wrists open. Once you realize that neither of their front lawns are gated, you can just go around.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great one.

[Mallory Rubin]

You okay?

[Chris Ryan]

Because she is talking to her, so it's not like she's trying to obscure her watching.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was bizarre.

[Bill Simmons]

I had another one on that. On that, Like a logistics thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This of kind. Guy's really smart, right? This Dr. Harrison Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

But not as smart as his dad, but.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But really smart.

[Mallory Rubin]

Got through med school, he's a Dupont chair. Not sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Kills somebody and just dumps the stuff right over the dock.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is a huge one.

[Bill Simmons]

This is right off the dock. Don't you want to walk 40 yards to the right? Just right over.

[Chris Ryan]

Very soon, Madison becomes like the Loch Ness monster of Lake Champlain. Right. Like, because she gets to the bridge, too.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the other thing. How much Territory is she covering as well?

[Mallory Rubin]

The car is dumped like because he says the boat entrance is where he.

[Craig]

Under the bridge. Why is the, why is it the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Box, the jewelry box? So there's like evidence in multiple locations.

[Craig]

Why is the car under the bridge?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very sloppy.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Craig]

Doesn't make sense.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you assume that he drove her off the bridge, right?

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, no. He people.

[Craig]

I thought it would backed her in and let the, and let the car sink into the lake.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Craig]

At the boat entrance, wherever that is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Killed her.

[Craig]

I guess she could be under the bridge.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just getting rid of the bot. Yeah. He's killed her in the tub.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he. Yes, he's. He wheels her to the Norman.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a great murderer.

[Chris Ryan]

No really.

[Mallory Rubin]

Slapping and then again runs it all back the playbook. Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absurd.

[Chris Ryan]

Although maybe he was just like this is. He's like Sirianni. He's like no turnovers here. You know.

[Craig]

Run the ball.

[Chris Ryan]

Nitpick is where the did Caitlyn go? She's goes first day at college. She never checks in on our parents. She's never like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Kind of a weird vibe coming from mom right now. Like, what's happening? I haven't heard merge.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty early in the email stage. But you still had email in 2000. She should be like, hey mom, what's.

[Craig]

The span of this movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Is it like a.

[Craig]

How long is this?

[Chris Ryan]

I thought it was a couple weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

Like September, October. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Because I thought she started. She's slowly losing it over days or weeks.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think the whole like you even could say maybe it's like a. What's age the worst. The whole like I've lost my mind because I'm an empty nester now and have no identity. Like not the most delicate portrait in the script and I think that aspect but I guess that's the answer is like she has to convince herself I don't need to call her all the time. Yeah, right. Like I don't need to check in.

[Bill Simmons]

She's already lost her dad, Scott Carino, and now she loses her stepdad.

[Chris Ryan]

Like how often would you call your folks from college? Once a week?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I didn't go to college but I would have emailed them, I think or they would have emailed me. I feel like there would have been an email connection.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Early in freshman year. You're checking in, you're homesick, you're checking in. Remember?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean like I, I think I was calling like, like once every Couple days.

[Mallory Rubin]

I. I have a nit to pick with Madison as a ghost.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

She was on my list as well.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have an unanswerable question for that category, which we'll get to. But on the nitpicking front, the amount of time she's taking to repeatedly type her initials, me. F, F. M.E.F. m.E.F. mF. M.E.F. better type out your husband. M.E. killed me and disposed of my body. And I have returned to you in paranormal form to tell you this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why is Madison typing?

[Bill Simmons]

Her initial rules, like Swayze and Ghost, where you can just kind of. You could kind of push.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just very inefficient. Well, then type like we're getting on the mirror. You know, Type. He did it.

[Chris Ryan]

Come on, Madison.

[Mallory Rubin]

Put in a little more work here.

[Bill Simmons]

Why not just write Madison over MEF I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Absurd. Absurd. I don't. That's. That's a function of a not great script more than it is something I believe Madison the ghost would do.

[Bill Simmons]

I had a coupon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where is Coop in the last 40 minutes of this movie?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I mean.

[Bill Simmons]

And also his parents are fighting.

[Chris Ryan]

Like that's gonna enrage in and out of the house a lot, it seems like. Because when she disappears that night, she's just like, have it. You're trying.

[Mallory Rubin]

She yells his name once from the porch, and then she's like, honestly, that's Murph.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no deaths in that house. Murph's protecting everybody.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, he's on it.

[Chris Ryan]

Where'd he go?

[Bill Simmons]

Now, Murph, that wouldn't have liked any of that. The bathtub drowning. Never happens with Murph. Yeah, yeah, Murph's Murph.

[Chris Ryan]

Murph, disciplined.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have, like, pawed the water to make the bathtub go down a.

[Mallory Rubin]

Compress on any wound.

[Bill Simmons]

What about the paralysis drug, by the way? What drug is that? That her feet were kind of working?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it six minutes?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's. We learn earlier in the film, it's three to five. Right, Right. So then he's like, oh, it's wearing off. Right. And then gets the pill bottle because he's going to stage the suit.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible murderer. Oh, brutal.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he's using something from his own place of work that could like, I assume, be tracing. But again, maybe he's like, well, they gave up on Madison pretty quickly. They're not going to really look into this. It's defensible. While she's got the drug fading out of her system. This is one of My big picking nits. I am not a physicist. Vectors, angles, etc. It's not my specialty. However, I feel confident in saying nothing we're doing with the foot to pull the cord that way. And certainly the shower head. Lifting the cord of the shower head.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's hard to do when you're not paralyzed.

[Mallory Rubin]

The hot water knob. I just don't believe any of that would be be possible in that state or. Or at all.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree.

[Mallory Rubin]

She should have died. She should have drowned. That's how the movie should have ended.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel, prequel, prestige tv. All black cast are untouchable. All black cast. I'm not against. Sure did think that on Tubi I might give that a whirl.

[Mallory Rubin]

This would be like a good prestige TV. Like A88.

[Chris Ryan]

You'd have to have Apple CV the year before. You would have to have like the. You'd almost have to have the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you get any flashbacks?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it depends on how much you want to get into the supernatural part versus what you want to do with normal Norman and his. And his.

[Mallory Rubin]

What don't I want to do with Norman?

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better? The Wayne Jenkins, Buffalo Bill, Fergie the Florist, Byron Mayo, Dan Orlovsky or William Brimley and the Firm.

[Chris Ryan]

I like the idea of Fergie from the town being like, you're gonna do this for me. You're gonna dump you in the lake just like I dumped Madison. I did her the chemical way. Gave her a Harrison Ford taste.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, she doped up good and proper.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Fergie.

[Chris Ryan]

The floor, the floors is great. One is one of my faves.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't want Wayne there. As local law enforcement.

[Craig]

We've retired.

[Mallory Rubin]

Checking in on Madison.

[Craig]

Wayne.

[Chris Ryan]

Wayne is. Wayne is.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a tragedy.

[Chris Ryan]

Wayne blew his knee out.

[Bill Simmons]

Wayne had a four year run. Yeah, he was that girl Campbell Wayne.

[Craig]

Transferred a couple Wayne's Eternals.

[Chris Ryan]

Wayne's going to Indiana now.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not going to do Orlovsky. I enjoyed Fergie the florist just want Oscar. Who gets it? I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Definitely Pfeiffer, I think. No question.

[Chris Ryan]

I would do Zemeckis.

[Bill Simmons]

Don Burgess Zemeckis cinematography. I don't think this was an Oscar movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, no, certainly not.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. We already talked about why would anyone ever fuck with a Ouija board? And then I wrote down Claire. Number one movie character. Widow catch ever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Whoa.

[Bill Simmons]

Get the house. She still looks great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Trust issues though. Major trust issues.

[Bill Simmons]

Scarred by last relationship. You can win that back and really build her back up.

[Chris Ryan]

No further questions from law enforcement about what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

True. Free to visit the grave necklace she's wearing. Looks great at parties. Vindicated by her. By in the community because people now realize her husband was driving her crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

And you're not worried about the trust issues? Is calcifying.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I mean, on a scale of one to Tiger Woods's wife, I think it's like a 9.2.

[Chris Ryan]

Shout out.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on, Craig.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tiger woods is incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Hadn't thought about inheriting like $700 million or. Or the. In the settlement. Plus look great.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she's really kept that.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig would have my back under the radar. Which one?

[Chris Ryan]

Ellen. Tiger's ex.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Great job by her.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, where's she at?

[Bill Simmons]

She upping spending taggers money.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I had a couple of unanswerables.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

If Norman had just been like. Sounds great. Let's go to Adamant.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Love that place.

[Mallory Rubin]

He would have been fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Is he fine?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

I. I think she's never letting it go. But he buys more time. He buys more time.

[Chris Ryan]

Is Claire's supernatural experience all a side effect of Jody's mushroom tea that she gives her in the beginning of the movie?

[Mallory Rubin]

How does she pronounce it?

[Chris Ryan]

I can't remember.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kim. Kabuka.

[Chris Ryan]

Kabuka.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which is not correct. That's a wild moment in the movie.

[Bill Simmons]

So now are they doing like. Like 2.5 mushrooms or 5.5?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, they're microdosing for sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't really talk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Claire. Microdosing would be great, actually. I would enjoy that. There is a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a lot of story to tell here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Should run it back. After all, why did Mag.

[Bill Simmons]

I was offered a.025 gummy on New Year's Eve and turned it down. Because I'm bad at drugs.

[Chris Ryan]

Of psilocybin.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just not good at drugs anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't like an edible.

[Bill Simmons]

Not good at drugs anymore. Had a great run.

[Chris Ryan]

I think you should just hold out.

[Bill Simmons]

And bring it back.

[Chris Ryan]

You go into a big blow era, you know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just write the cocaine supposedly coming back.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's what I heard.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We're in the street. Tell us more, Craig.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why did Madison's ghost wait one year to start haunting Claire and Norman? Why? Why the.

[Chris Ryan]

No, she had to get unlocked. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, eventually we build to her. Like the braid. That's another unanswerable question. Is like, why is there a look of her hair? But she's. But she's Haunting her before then. Right. So what is. What is the braid gambit?

[Bill Simmons]

The superpower, though.

[Mallory Rubin]

The braid. We level up for sure. But why are these, like. Do we think Claire was just missing these signs until this point in time? And they'd been there. Or Madison was like, I'm chilling in the lake, decomposing for a year, and now I'm filling your bath. That's the first time the tub has been full.

[Chris Ryan]

How much is her perception heightened by the fact that she's not concentrated turning on her daughter? It's. Yeah, it's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Maybe she wanted Caitlyn. Wait till Caitlin. Maybe that's it. Wait till Caitlyn leaves. Right. No innocent bystanders. Yeah, I like that. Okay, what if. This is a big, unanswerable question for me. What if the Spencers. And if I'm Norman, I definitely do this in the renovation because I've killed my mistress in that tub. Have just a stall shower. What if there's just a freestanding. A shower. Right. A glass shower. No bathtub. How does Madison work her magic, then? What tub is she filling?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's not one to fill. What does she do? Where are we seeing the reflection? Obviously, we have mirrors. We have other surfaces, but the tub is so central to how she's able to haunt them. What if Norman had had the foresight to say, I killed somebody here? I'm going to make that part of the renovation.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just goes. Shower only. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Something they should have thought about.

[Bill Simmons]

It's one of the many reasons he was a terrible murderer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Awful bad husband. Bad murderer.

[Bill Simmons]

He comes up in my coach finstock Mr. Miyagi award for best or worst life lesson. Lesson.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Norm, if you're gonna go through all this hullabaloo to kill your mistress.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Figure out a better place to dump all of her stuff with the necklace.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a big.

[Bill Simmons]

I know we mentioned it earlier, but it has to be mentioned a second time.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That can't be in front of your dock. It's absurd.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And also, like, right in front of your dock. It's not like he took a boat, swam out, and he could have just.

[Chris Ryan]

Been like, I'm taking a ferry to Fort Ticonderoga. Yoga, you know, whatever. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I mean, he has a boat.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Mallory Rubin]

He has a boat.

[Bill Simmons]

You could throw that anywhere.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, there's no reason not to Ripley it.

[Bill Simmons]

What piece of Memorabil. Ripley. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'd obviously Want the Scott Carino photos? Oh, yeah. I would definitely frame them, give them to Jeff Gallo for Christmas.

[Chris Ryan]

I'd like good jeans, the boat that he's got. But if not, I'd take his outfit from the boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is it in. In. In the. The era of Sydney Sweeney. You're going good jeans and trips. Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the boat itself, to me, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a. It's him backing.

[Chris Ryan]

It's me sailing against cancel culture.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, as you tend to. As you tend to.

[Bill Simmons]

Queen Sydney is back, by the way. Handmade, too. Already greenlit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Housemaid.

[Bill Simmons]

Housemate.

[Mallory Rubin]

Different vibe for. Different vibe for handmade. Yeah.

[Craig]

She's in Handmaid's Tale.

[Bill Simmons]

It's all right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. You're not. You're not picking the braid. You don't want.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I do not want to go spray.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you guys see Housemaid?

[Chris Ryan]

I have Norwell.

[Mallory Rubin]

IB no interest.

[Bill Simmons]

It is horrible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Seems.

[Bill Simmons]

Is.

[Mallory Rubin]

It seems terrible.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's, like, really awful.

[Craig]

Doing really well.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's really awful. It's terrible. It's poor.

[Mallory Rubin]

So it's not going to be a rewatchable. It's not going to be an instant rewatchable.

[Chris Ryan]

You're just making sure you don't get on the poster there.

[Bill Simmons]

It is, like, shockingly bad. I was stunned by how bad it was.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

That's awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Watched every minute of it.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is.

[Bill Simmons]

It's because it's like. It's a from hell movie. But did you go to theater? Shockingly, no. It's on the PGA app. Okay. Which was funny in itself. Like, I don't know what it was. Getting nominated for costume design. Congratulations to everyone involved. Best double feature choice. You could go Baker boys in this movie as like a little bookend.

[Chris Ryan]

You know? What you talked me into is Pan Panic Room.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's fun. I like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Stuck in the House.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would either want to do Ford actually is the bad guy and pair it with Mosquito coast or a more ambiguous property of, like, part of the journey of discovery. Is. Is he guilty or not guilty? And pair it with either the Fugitive or Presumed Innocent.

[Bill Simmons]

Some people wanted us to do who lost the movie before who won the movie. But I. I think that's who lost the movie is going to be. Too hard. Too negative as a category. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not really.

[Bill Simmons]

I like these movies. Movies.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say. Yeah, we can pass on that category. I was going to say. I would say Zus might have lost this one just because he. He comes back with Cast Away and everything.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I understand not Agent Phil Coulson. Clark. Greg.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, this made $300 million. I'm sure he.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I just feel like he doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like who lost the money. Yeah, we'll know when it's the right time to do that. Who won the movie, though?

[Mallory Rubin]

Feifer, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Feifer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Michelle. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig.

[Craig]

Rock solid.

[Chris Ryan]

Enjoyed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, we're off to a good starting point.

[Craig]

It's a great movie to discuss right after it ends because there's so many red herrings that don't. That don't tie up. Like, the four of us, the four people that I watched with, we just, like, talked about it for a half an hour, being like, so wait, why did he try to kill himself in the tub? Why did he fake the death in the tub? What was up with the neighbor? I do think. I don't. I don't love the end of this movie. I do think the end kind of. Of drops this from an 8 to a 7. I think, like, reanimating her in the water was unnecessary.

[Chris Ryan]

I think they could have ended it at the house.

[Craig]

Yeah. Or it's like, I don't mind her showing up on the bridge and causes thing to drive off, but adding her below, like, physically ripping him down. I don't know. It went a little too far there, I feel like. But the other thing is, I don't like seeing evil Harrison Ford. I just don't. We need a category for, like, that's my friend. I hate this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, please don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's why it's great, though.

[Craig]

He's my pal. I don't want to see him evil. I. I don't want to see him killing women.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're, like, weaponizing your expectation that he's.

[Craig]

I completely get it.

[Mallory Rubin]

That he's Decker, that he's Han Solo.

[Bill Simmons]

So what's the Tom Cruise movie for?

[Mallory Rubin]

That.

[Bill Simmons]

Please don't do this. He's my friend.

[Craig]

Like, could you do this for every great actor? Like, what's, like, your favorite actor? What's the movie they're in where you're like, oh, don't do that. Don't do that to me.

[Bill Simmons]

For Tom Cruise, it was Interview the Vampire. It's a really good movie.

[Craig]

You know, like, me seeing Harrison Ford in this. I'm like, oh, h. That's my guy. I hate. I hate watching.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm trying to think of, like, a Colin Farrell movie where I'm like, oh, please, not. Not like this. Honestly, I. This is one of the reasons why.

[Bill Simmons]

That'S the name of the category. Not like this.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't actually. I think one of the reasons why I had a hard time watching the Penguin is I was like, this is my guy, you know, like, dude, he's dynamite in that. But I just want him to be beautiful. You know, he's Colin Farrell.

[Bill Simmons]

You want to be a fiend for.

[Mallory Rubin]

Me is a lot of things, but beautiful is not one of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Trying to think what Denzel's not like.

[Chris Ryan]

This movie is Roman J. Esquire. Was that.

[Bill Simmons]

Was that Roman J. Israel?

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like that movie that much.

[Craig]

Also, you bringing up housemade, not handmade housemaid. I feel like, really bad what this movie does like. This movie has two A listers in it right now. The movie Housemate made, I guess Sydney Sweeney and Amanda Seiffried are. Are big names, but they don't. The B movie with the A listers doesn't happen anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

Not as much now.

[Craig]

Like, for this movie to be remade now with the same star power. It would be like Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in this movie, which would be awesome, but they just don't do that anymore. And I. I enjoy the B movie with the A lister, but it's more rare now because they won't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway and what Lies beneath is exactly what 2025's version of this movie would be.

[Chris Ryan]

But they needed like that would. It would either be a Christopher Nolan movie, which would be like, this is $300 million or whatever, or it would.

[Mallory Rubin]

Be, and it's about time.

[Chris Ryan]

A B movie that's supposed to streaming.

[Craig]

Or it's like really small indie A24, and there's like something less, much more dark and upsetting and serious about it. It's not just like a, you know, a ghost story.

[Bill Simmons]

You know who they couldn't do that with? Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh because they don't work together anymore. Say five.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it was the right to.

[Bill Simmons]

Make the playoffs because your rookie kicker, well, you went two yards back. You went two yards backwards to make the kick harder on him. Second timeout. Fireable offense.

[Chris Ryan]

For the character or for the coach?

[Bill Simmons]

For the coach.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, well, guess what? He got fired.

[Bill Simmons]

Time to go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not for that. I think.

[Bill Simmons]

What are you trying to center the ball for, dumbass, here in Pittsburgh at a night game?

[Mallory Rubin]

Time for some fresh blood and new ideas, you know, did you have a.

[Craig]

Problem with that in the moment than the 12 seconds with the timeout? You did.

[Bill Simmons]

Who doesn't? Pittsburgh's a house of horrors. Nobody likes.

[Mallory Rubin]

I texted my dad when we.

[Craig]

When the Danny's disagreed, I thought as a. Like, I'm thrilled they're not trying to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Get five losing yards. Absurd. Not trying to gain any yardage. Absurd. I texted my dad in real time and I said ghost of Billy Clindiff. Which of course was even more dire in a number of respects.

[Bill Simmons]

That one was worse, though, because Lee Evans had the ball and Sterling Moore.

[Mallory Rubin]

Situation, I mean, it was a greatest.

[Chris Ryan]

Ever, I still think. Was it really funny? Because Derwin James is gonna, like, break Drake Bay sternum now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jesus.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, he's the Raven some more. It's like. It's definitely just. You're seeding it. You're seeding it.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not your fault.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's gonna be Jacksonville that gets us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, Jacksonville. Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll see. Cr. Pleasure as always, Ma. The pleasure was mine, Craig. Thank you, George. Now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pleasure.

[Craig]

Eduardo.

[Bill Simmons]

Eduardo, wherever you are. Thank you. Oh, Eduardo and I go head to head this weekend. Who knows, we might not even be talking by the time people hear this. Rewatchables. Thank you, everybody.