Podcast Summary: The Rewatchables — ‘Witness’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

Date: August 26, 2025
Hosts: Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin
Movie Discussed: Witness (1985, dir. Peter Weir)

Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into Peter Weir’s Witness, a 1985 neo-noir romance and crime thriller starring Harrison Ford and Kelly McGillis. Cult favorite among The Rewatchables hosts, the film’s genre-bending story, star performances, and unique setting in Amish country serve as rich material for reflection. Mallory Rubin’s passion for the film fuels an energetic, affectionate conversation, with Bill and Mallory breaking down what makes it so enduringly rewatchable, its place in 1980s cinema, and the singular appeal of Harrison Ford as iconic star.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Harrison Ford’s Apex and Performance

• Ford as John Book: Both hosts celebrate Ford’s performance, noting its complexity, charisma, and nuanced physicality.
• Mallory: “It is the movie where I believe we see the hottest person who has ever lived. And that is Harrison Ford as John Book.” [02:21]
• Bill: “To me, this was always more of the Kelly McGillis … Sneaky, hot as a teenager.” [03:03]
• Ford’s 80s run highlighted: Empire, Raiders, Blade Runner, Jedi, Temple, and finally Witness. Nothing quite compares, says Mallory.
• Ford achieved his only Oscar nomination for Witness (never won): “This, to me, is one of, like, the great injustices in the history of Hollywood.” [12:02]

The Complexities of ‘Witness’

• The film’s unique blend: part police thriller, part forbidden romance, part “reverse fish out of water”—and Western.
• On Witness as a genre-bender: “It is, of course, a movie that features cops. But the cop plot is … much more mechanism and fact than core focus.” [82:30]
• The script is revered for its structure; praised for visual storytelling and reliance on glances, restraint, and subtext rather than dialogue.
  • Bill: “They don’t really do this anymore. In movies, with very few exceptions, everything is so dialogue heavy now. This movie is so good like that.” [18:28]
• Peter Weir’s direction: The balance between silent longing, visual storytelling, and mood is hailed as both of its era and timeless.

Chemistry, Desire, and the Power of Restraint

• Mallory identifies Witness as a “portrait of desire” where what isn’t shown or said ignites the film’s heat.
  • “This movie is about yearning. It’s about something that you want, but you don’t know if you should have it.” [46:37]
• The barn dance scene—dancing to “Wonderful World”—is Mallory’s “single easiest category pick” for most rewatchable scene ever.
  • “That taught me what sex was, even though it’s not a sex scene.” [47:56]
• The infamous “sponge bath stare-down” scene, and the kiss, are dissected as moments where restraint heightens emotion and eroticism.

The Amish World as Character

• Both hosts love movies that transport viewers into immersive, unfamiliar worlds.
  • “We’re in this whole Amish Society for 100 minutes, and it’s really riveting. … By the end of it, I feel like I get it.” [24:53]
• The pacifism/violence conflict is sharply drawn; Book’s city ways contrast, infiltrate, and sometimes threaten the stability of the Amish community.

Oscar Debate and 1985 in Film

• The 1985 Oscars are discussed at length. Witness lost Best Picture to Out of Africa and Ford lost Best Actor to William Hurt.
  • Mallory: “I think both are [robbed]. People didn’t love Out of Africa when it came out … it wasn’t like a multiple Oscar winner.” [16:37]
• The hosts lament that many all-time iconic Ford performances (Indiana Jones, The Fugitive) weren’t even nominated.
• Analysis of the year’s other nominees shows just how competitive certain years were, but the hosts argue Witness’s legacy has outshone many competitors.

Supporting Cast, Direction, and Production

• Kelly McGillis’s breakout, Lucas Haas as Samuel (praised for his “stare through your soul” performance) [38:57–39:57], and Alexander Godunov’s tragic real-life arc.
• Danny Glover’s rare “evil” performance is celebrated; the supporting cast (many with little acting experience) blend into the world seamlessly.
• Weir’s direction and his love for visual storytelling is considered crucial. The barn-raising scene, a paragraph in the script, becomes a major emotional anchor.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you’ve done your job, you should know how they feel about each other—no words needed.” –– Mallory [20:25]
• “One of my favorite anecdotes … she was working at a coffee shop and … Harrison Ford and Peter Weir walked in, and everyone was like, that’s fucking Harrison Ford.” –– Mallory [31:54]
• “There are so many smart little things. I really love this movie. … It’s so good.” –– Bill [22:38]
• “He makes it look easy, is my point. And I don’t think that’s an easy role.” –– Bill, on Ford as Book [85:18]
• “I think the answer to ‘Did this movie need a better sex scene?’ is no. … it’s about the buildup… not actually about the culmination.” –– Mallory [65:41]
• “She broke the rule of the Ordnong. … I like when there’s weird phrases and words, but we don’t know what they are.” –– Bill [45:08]
• “Most rewatchable scene? … This as the most rewatchable scene because it is maybe my favorite scene in a movie ever.” –– Mallory on the barn dance [46:17]
• “Could Mallory Rubin have been Amish? Is John Book there?” [111:53]—the answer is (over and over) only if Harrison Ford’s character is present.

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:-------------:|:------------| | 02:21 | Mallory explains love for Witness, Ford as sex symbol | | 03:44–04:43 | Ford’s 80s run; star power context | | 09:53–11:08 | Ford’s “swordsman” reputation, Eve Babitz quote | | 12:07–16:54 | Oscar injustice & 1985 awards debate | | 17:23–20:31 | Direction, Peter Weir’s visual storytelling | | 20:58–22:38 | The subtlety and restraint in performance and writing | | 23:43–26:36 | Amish world as immersive setting; violence theme | | 38:37–47:56 | Rewatchable scenes rundown; barn dance scene focus | | 46:37–47:56 | “Portrait of desire”; yearning more powerful than consummation | | 65:41–66:01 | Did it need a better sex scene? (Mallory: no; it’s perfect) | | 80:52–81:20 | The slow-mo “laughing makeout” scene critique | | 83:57–85:17 | Is this Ford’s best role? Bill and Mallory debate | | 94:15–95:02 | Apex Mountain: Is this Ford’s apex? Debate | | 111:49–113:28 | Could the hosts survive as Amish? (debate over food, TV, coffee, sports) |

Additional Highlights & Running Jokes

• Sponge Bath Stare-down is analyzed repeatedly as a subtle, erotic moment (with both hosts joking about Amish sexuality and shunning).
• Running joke about Ford’s legendary sexual prowess, using the apocryphal “nine times a day” Eve Babitz quote.
• Mallory revels in Ford’s appeal, Bill gently needles her about Daniel (the “stepdad in waiting”) and Rachel’s quick move from widowhood to romantic intrigue.
• Investigation of cultural artifacts: Amish beards (“never understood”), barn-raising as riveting set-piece, 1980s score as “utterly of its era.”
• The tragic real-life arc of Alexander Godunov, and Lucas Haas’s emergence as a prominent supporting actor (and Leonardo DiCaprio’s real-life “posse”).
• Running through the “What If” Rewatchables categories (casting, double feature, weak link, best food/shot, and more).
• Mallory’s awesome hypothetical: “Could I be Amish?” Only if John Book’s in the community.

Conclusion: Why ‘Witness’ Remains Rewatchable

Witness is celebrated not just as a crime thriller, but as a film that manages to seamlessly blend suspense, romance, and cultural anthropology. The hosts make a persuasive case that its technical restraint, yearning-driven romance, Ford’s career-defining performance, and singular Amish setting make it singular among 1980s (and all-time) American cinema.

Mallory sums it up: Witness is a “masterpiece,” a story more about longing and the power of unspoken connection than about violence or genre mechanics, and remains on her personal Mount Rushmore. For both hosts, the movie’s visual storytelling and immersive world make it endlessly rewatchable.

Who Won the Movie?

Harrison Ford.
Mallory: “He’s my number one all timer … Harrison Ford is the hottest person who’s ever lived. He won, as always.” [116:56]

For further discussion, the episode is a masterclass in movie analysis and fandom—especially for anyone who loves Ford, complex onscreen yearning, or 80s cinema that takes big, original swings.