‘Working Girl’ With Bill Simmons, Amanda Dobbins, and Joanna Robinson

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Working Girl" Episode of The Rewatchables

Introduction In this episode of The Rewatchables, hosted by Bill Simmons from The Ringer, alongside Amanda Dobbins and Joanna Robinson, the trio delves deep into the 1988 romantic comedy classic, Working Girl. The discussion explores why this film remains a beloved rewatchable, examining its cultural significance, stellar performances, and enduring themes.

Overview Working Girl serves as the focal point of this episode, with the hosts analyzing its portrayal of female empowerment in the workplace, the dynamics between its characters, and the directorial prowess of Mike Nichols. The conversation intertwines personal anecdotes, critical insights, and humorous "award" segments that highlight memorable moments from the film.

Acting Performances The hosts commend Melanie Griffith's portrayal of Tess McGill, highlighting her transformation from a secretary to a confident professional. Amanda praises Griffith as the "perfect romantic comedy" lead and a cultural icon, stating, “It's like a Cinderella story... one of the great movie songs” ([02:57]). Joanna Robinson lauds Griffith's nuanced performance, noting, “She is more than your stereotypical rom-com lead,” and emphasizes how Griffith brings vulnerability and determination to her character ([12:23]).

Sigourney Weaver's role as Tess's boss receives significant attention. Bill Simmons remarks, “I actually like her the most than Dave,” referring to Weaver’s multifaceted roles ([28:07]). The discussion also touches on Weaver's versatility, comparing her Working Girl character to her iconic roles in Alien and Aliens, describing her performance as “a very weird Sigourney Weaver in a good way” ([24:54]).

Harrison Ford's portrayal of Jack Trainer is celebrated for bringing charm and depth to the character. Amanda highlights Ford’s “hilarious” and “charming” performance, especially in scenes where he supports Tess ([31:11]). Joanna adds, “The shirtless scene is very good,” appreciating Ford’s ability to blend humor with vulnerability ([31:42]).

Direction and Mike Nichols Mike Nichols’ direction is praised for his ability to craft believable, intricate characters and navigate complex workplace dynamics. Amanda describes Nichols as “really good at people talking and characters being believable,” crediting him for the film’s authentic feel ([38:19]). The hosts discuss Nichols' illustrious career, referencing his other works like Silkwood and Postcards from the Edge, and how his collaboration with strong female leads has left a lasting impact on cinema ([37:50]).

Cultural Context and 80s Romcoms Working Girl is contextualized within the 1980s’ landscape of professional women in film. Amanda explains, “It is really fascinating to watch them now... this is how I learned how I was supposed to go to work and supposed to dress” ([09:07]). The film’s portrayal of Wall Street and corporate ambition reflects the era’s cultural aspirations, with themes like “greed is good” permeating the storyline ([05:30]).

Joanna Robinson draws parallels between Working Girl and other quintessential 80s films like Die Hard and The Breakfast Club, noting how these movies collectively capture the spirit of the decade ([04:15]). The hosts discuss how 80s romcoms like Working Girl offered edgier narratives compared to modern iterations, providing deeper character development and unpredictability ([130:26]).

Oscar Nominations and Competition The episode delves into Working Girl's six Academy Award nominations, exploring why Melanie Griffith did not win Best Actress despite her remarkable performance. Bill Simmons muses, “I can't believe she got nominated because Elizabeth Perkins in Big,” underscoring the unpredictable nature of Oscar selections ([47:02]). The hosts compare the film’s nominations to its contemporaries like Rain Man and Dangerous Liaisons, debating which film deserved the accolades ([43:46]).

Memorable Scenes and Quotes Several standout scenes from Working Girl are dissected:

• The Makeover Montage ([14:44]): The transformation of Tess from a disheveled secretary to a polished professional symbolizes her personal and professional growth.

• Meeting at the Bar ([36:39]): The “meet cute” between Tess and Jack Trainer is highlighted as a pivotal moment, featuring memorable lines like, “Do you know me?” ([54:05]).

• The Elevator Showdown ([58:00]): A humorous yet tense confrontation that showcases the film’s blend of comedy and drama.

• The Luau Wedding Party ([56:45]): Celebrated for its vibrant depiction of 80s party culture and the chemistry between characters ([56:43]).

Notable quotes include Tess's determination, “You don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. Make it happen” ([35:07]), and Jack Trainer’s charismatic lines, adding depth to his role ([53:58]).

Casting What-ifs The hosts engage in speculative casting discussions, pondering how different actors could have influenced the film:

• Demi Moore: Discussed as an alternative to Melanie Griffith, but unanimously deemed unsuitable due to lack of vulnerability ([88:46]).

• Joan Cusack: Praised for her role as Tess’s assistant, reflecting on her potential and impact on the storyline ([74:07]).

• Whoopi Goldberg and Meg Ryan: Considered but ultimately rejected for their versions of Tess, maintaining the consensus that Melanie Griffith was the perfect fit ([91:50]).

Humorous Awards Segment Injecting humor into their analysis, the hosts create playful award categories specific to Working Girl:

• Best Scene: Awarded for the transformation montage and the bar meeting between Tess and Jack ([62:07]).

• Best Pop Culture Song: Debated between Carly Simon’s “Let the River Run” and other era-defining tracks ([66:05]).

• Worst Movie Element: Highlighting minor plot inconsistencies and character decisions, like Tess's abrupt career moves ([78:49]).

These segments add levity and showcase the hosts' affectionate critique of the film’s quirks.

Comparative Analysis and Legacy The discussion compares Working Girl to other romantic comedies across different decades, emphasizing its uniqueness and lasting appeal. Amanda notes that older romcoms like Working Girl offered more “edge” and unpredictability compared to the “glossiness” of modern films ([132:33]).

Craig comments on the depth of characters in 80s and 90s romcoms, appreciating their complexity and the balance between professional ambition and romantic endeavors ([126:04]). The hosts argue that Working Girl set a benchmark for strong female leads in romantic comedies, influencing subsequent films in the genre.

Conclusion The trio concludes by reaffirming Working Girl’s status as a rewatchable classic, celebrating its blend of humor, romance, and sharp social commentary. They reflect on how the film’s themes resonate across generations, making it a timeless piece that continues to inspire and entertain audiences today.

Notable Quotes

• Tess McGill (Melanie Griffith): “You don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. Make it happen.” ([35:07])
• Jack Trainer (Harrison Ford): “Would you like a nightcap? I guess not. It’s too late for coffee.” ([31:42])
• Amanda Dobbins: “I dunked my face in a bowl of ice water this morning inspired by Melanie Griffith.” ([19:33])
• Joanna Robinson: “Have you done a baby boom rewatch? Is that what we're pitching right now?” ([09:51])

This episode offers a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of Working Girl, providing listeners with rich insights and a renewed appreciation for its place in cinematic history.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed. Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find Amanda Dobbins on the Big Picture. Dramatic return to you for the Rewatchables.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm incredibly excited.

[Bill Simmons]

I was, you know, you have two kids now. I'm. And you're. You're busy and I was trying to ease you back, but now we get you back for stuff.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You've been very.

[Bill Simmons]

You've been on in like a year and a half.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, but I'm back and I have to tell you, in terms of like returning to the real world, this is like a real I'm back world of adults. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

[Bill Simmons]

Joanna Robinson is here as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hello.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't live here, but every time you hear I try to grab you.

[Joanna Robinson]

For rewatch goes down. And it's like a great track record of movies that you've had me cover.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So.

[Bill Simmons]

Working Girl, I can't believe it. Mentioned it a couple weeks ago to you and Mallory when we were doing a rewatchables and I was like, we should do Working Girl. And Mallory, who you've known now for how long?

[Amanda Dobbins]

10 years.

[Bill Simmons]

Said, I cannot do that. I cannot take that from Amanda. Give my spot to Amanda. And I was like, you're right. Amanda has always said Working Girl is the number one movie I would ever want to do in the Rewatchables.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I've been waiting.

[Bill Simmons]

It's my bad for forgetting that. And now we're gonna do Working Girl. Let's run the trailer and then we'll go. Do me a favor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Be me, Tess.

[Bill Simmons]

Be my secretary. He wants to give her a chance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hold all cause, Ms. McGill.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe I just don't like you her double crossing boss.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I consider us a team, Tess.

[Bill Simmons]

Dustin, this woman is my secretary. But this working girl is gonna make it on her own. You are amazing. Harrison Ford, Sigourney Weaver and Melanie Griffith.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's going on in there?

[Bill Simmons]

She's dusting. Working Girl. Rated R. Start Dec. 21 at a theater near you. This episode of the Rewatchables is presented to you by Amazon Prime. Prime is more than just fast delivery. It's Also, where you can dive deep into your favorite movie genres with prime video and get what you need fast to fuel your obsession. You also, if you. If you watch a movie on Amazon prime, you can click down and see the actors in each scene for a lot of the movies, which is great snacks for movie night. New book on film theory. It's all there, too, on Amazon Prime. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. All right. Your favorite movie ever, Amanda. Why?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Perfect romantic comedy, but more than a romantic comedy, it is a cultural artifact as well as a, you know, Cinderella story. Great cast. Got a Harrison Ford take for later that I don't want to spoil. But very important, one of the great movie songs, if not the great movie song of. Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself. I mean, I mean, listen, it's in the trailer, right? We've already. We've already heard it, but incredible stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

The first time I, when I watched it twice in four days. And the first time, and I was like, do I like this song? And then when.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it plays nine times.

[Bill Simmons]

And then keep doing. Where she's just kind of humming it a couple times, like, all right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The score is great. The score is wonderful. Yeah. And also, you know, I was born a few years before this movie came out, so in some ways, this is how I understand the 80s, you know, and it. And how I understand my parents, for better and for worse. So just landmark, in my opinion.

[Bill Simmons]

Joanna.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love this film so much. I feel like this is a top five 80s movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, if you're like, what was the 80s? Let's put it in a time capsule for the aliens. Working Girl is in there. It has to be the very.

[Bill Simmons]

That's pretty good. That would be an interesting conversation. What those five movies would be. I kind of feel like the Breakfast Club should be one of the five.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Die Hard.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's see Die Hard. The first Die Hard.

[Joanna Robinson]

The first Die Hard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Over, like, Ghostbusters.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you put Fatal Attraction in there? I'm trying to think of movies that just seem distinctly 80s. Let's see top Gun, I think would have to be in the room. There's a lot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. But if it can only be 5, this should be a podcast. This should be an entire podcast. What's the five movie time capsule for each decade.

[Bill Simmons]

But it. But it would have to be. These movies represent the 80s in the most 80s ways possible.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so the way that Working Girl represents. Well, I, you know, I'm just like only a few years older than you and growing up rewatching all of these 80s movies on TNT or TBS or whatever it was, I was like, oh, every movie is set at Wall Street. Like, that was. That was the impression we got that every single movie was about Wall Street. That was the goal. That was the aim.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Everyone was in New York trying to. Trading and trading and arbitrage, which I still don't know what it is to Google that before this podcast. Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what arbitrage is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have it under questions that can never not be answered.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is arbitrage? I'll never know.

[Bill Simmons]

There's also. This is kind of the tail end of the. I mean, there's so many things going on with this movie, but this kind of greed is good era.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where it's like you just got to work your ass off and if you get. Then you'll have money and maybe you'll be able to ride in a limo. And it's just the 80s were very innocent about all that stuff. That. That was. One of the things that jumped out to me is like, oh, this premise probably is in the same kind of premise in 2025, necessarily.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I don't know that, like, the. The highest achievement is your office in a warren of all these other offices. If that's like the gold ring, the brush ring that you want right now. But in. In the late 80s, it was.

[Bill Simmons]

And it was a zero sum game. You were getting it at the expense of somebody else. All right, so I have. Well, first of all, Rolling Stone wrote this in 1989, which I thought was perfect when they did a very bizarre Melanie Griffith feature.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

And I cannot. I waited to talk about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Has there ever been, like, an unbizarre Melody Griffith feature? This is.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Rolling Stone writes, working still is. Working Girl is the story of a secretary fighting an egomaniac, egomaniacal boss for credit on an idea. Griffith stars as the secretary, and she too is fighting for credit, though the character she plays in almost every scene. Griffith spilling is third behind Sigourney Weaver, the boss, and then Harrison Ford. It's so interesting that she's not the star of the movie because she seems like a massive star now, but at the time, it seemed risky to even build a movie around her.

[Joanna Robinson]

She had just done something wild, right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And Body Double, but those weren't big movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Well, this is what makes her forever a star.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But I Can't remember other movies where somebody's clearly the star and they're like, nah, we gotta put you third because we need these other two for the poster, which kind of weirdly mirrors the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's so interesting. I think it's definitely happened before. Usually maybe second builds over a star that has an ego or something like that. But third build is under Sigourney Weaver because Harrison Ford's her co lead. But Sigourney Weaver is definitely in supporting.

[Bill Simmons]

But she was a massive star from Aliens at that point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, she doesn't even like get the end like the bumper or introducing. She's not being introduced. She's been working for a while. Yeah, just absolutely. Third.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I can't wait to talk about her. All right, here's what I wrote down. There's four movies going on at the same time. We mentioned the Greed is the New York aspiration.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The Gordon gecko.

[Bill Simmons]

There's this 70s 80s thing that they don't really do anymore in movies where the trying not to get caught in an elaborate lie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Was basically half of the TV shows in the 70s. And then a lot of movies where it's like Joanna's pretending to be the head of Spotify.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, like the TV show. Younger, essentially.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yes, exactly. All of which is just.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig thinks Joanna's running Spotify. She's actually not, but. And now they're in the same room and the actual head of Spotify is there and she's got a. I feel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like I could get away with it, honestly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but there's no Google, so. Yeah, there's.

[Bill Simmons]

You can kind of make up whatever you want with it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

So you have that. You had the Pretty Woman Cinderella idea. It's so the Pretty Woman parallels with this movie, it kind of makes me look down on Pretty Woman a little bit. They openly steal shit from this movie I like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the last piece is the female empowerment workplace comedy stuff that is like for the 80s because you have baby boom here too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is broadcast news in a like a slightly different way.

[Bill Simmons]

This is becoming an era of like professional women. Huh. What an interesting time for something.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fatal Attraction is also like the reverse of it. Right. You know, like a profession's professional at the expense of a beautiful home in the country.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you're missing the ROM in the calm, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, no. And see the romcom. But which one of the. Out of all those, what's your favorite?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I really. The yuppie cinema of the late 80s, and particularly the women is fascinating to me. I love all of those movies. It is really fascinating to watch them now be like, oh, so this is how I learned how I was, like, supposed to go to work and supposed to dress. Because for our age, it was, you know, handed down to you. Like, okay, this is what a working woman looks like. This is what it is to be a professional.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're supposed to, like, can you have it all? Should you balance your career? Should you accept the random child that you inherited from an unknown location?

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have you done a baby boom rewatch? Is that what we're pitching right now?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it's. It is really fascinating.

[Bill Simmons]

Bright lights, Big city was another one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a bunch of these.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My mom talks about. My mom's old. She talks about this all the time. Couldn't. When she gets mad at younger generations and she's just like, we just knew how to navigate stuff in my day.

[Joanna Robinson]

We just.

[Bill Simmons]

If we had people who were just jerks or they were hitting on you just. You just learned how to deal with them.

[Joanna Robinson]

You just write that they're a sleazoid on the ticket.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of had your. Your ways, almost like your nuclear defense.

[Amanda Dobbins]

System of dealing with it.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's one of the interesting things about rewatching this movie is the first 20 minutes is basically all but like, she's just in this world, weird shit's going on. They're trying to set her up with Kevin Spacey and she's like, is he going to just try to get me the date? And the irony of it being Kevin Spacey was pretty great, but he's like, yeah, I got my hotel room. And she's just like, oh, man. She ends up getting out of the car and it's just like, ah, that was a Tuesday. Right now. That would be like the most traumatic thing that happened to somebody. But back then, that was just kind of what the 80s were like. Pretty crazy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She has that scene with Alec Baldwin of when she's talking about, like, how great it is to be working for a woman and there's none of that chasing around the desk crap. And it's just matter, matter of fact. Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right, right. And she's like, I know you hate when I say stuff like this, but it's kind of nice to not have my ass left.

[Bill Simmons]

But I can't think of that many movies in the 80s that even, I don't know, casually.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Nine to five is another one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was the whole theme of it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that movie's insane.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is True.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I was 10 or 11 when that came out. The whole point of that movie is like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think, did you see it when you were 10 or 11?

[Bill Simmons]

I saw in the theater.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's amazing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did you see this in the theater?

[Bill Simmons]

I did.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, God, I'm jealous.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, 87 was an all time movie year or 87. 88. Those two years of just big stars, cool movies. I'm trying to remember if it was perceived as a Harrison Ford movie or a Sigourney Weaver because they were both really big stars.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was probably a bigger deal that Sigourney Weaver was in it because she was. The aliens was such like a massive movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wonder if it was a big deal that Indiana Jones was doing. Sort of like a romantic comedy.

[Bill Simmons]

His first rom comic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You know, so an Indiana Jones movie or a Harrison Ford movie until you see it and then it's a. Melanie Griffin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Griffin. Yeah. He doesn't show up for at least 30 minutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I have to.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll talk about it in a second. We gotta talk about. We gotta talk about Melanie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Holy mackerel. What a performance. I still think Body Double is my number one. Melanie Griffin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, she's so good in that movie. And she just comes in 120 miles.

[Joanna Robinson]

An hour even though she is Hollywood royalty and she wasn't, you know, born a working girl from Staten Island.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

This just is. Seems like her. This just seems like who Melanie Griffith is. And I, I can't separate her from Tess having seen her in like any number of other things.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's also. It's a, it's an amazing performance because it's not over the top. It's not. She's like. She's not going to win the overacting award. Like she is soft.

[Bill Simmons]

She doesn't care. Like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's still, you know, she's going to. She's determined she's going to get what she wants. But I always think it's really interesting when people take these really big roles. The movie hangs around her and they're. And they recede a little and they don't always raise their voice. Meryl Streep and Deborah wears Prada being the other one. It's. It's not an obvious choice and she's great in it.

[Bill Simmons]

That's another movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a lot of, there's a lot of devils. Prada.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a. There's a reason on my favorite, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's 38 years old now. And it's just sprinkling DNA over all these beloved movies over the next 40 years. But those were Pretty Woman and Devil Wears Prada were the two that I was like, oh, yeah, you guys just watched this one over and over again and tried to pull stuff. Melanie Griffith.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We going to talk about it now?

[Bill Simmons]

Let's talk about Tess first.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Perfect character.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, just like little details that are great. Like when she shows up in the office and she takes her shoes off and replaces them. It's like, okay, I get the. The hair is like a disaster. The outfit's not great. You know, the makeover. Some sort of thing is happening at some point. She's like slightly trashy, but not. You know what I mean? Like you could see her at a bar at two in the morning probably.

[Joanna Robinson]

She fits in both worlds. She figures a way to fit in both worlds.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, yeah, but they're doing like the class version of she takes off the glasses and like, omg, she's beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was obviously always beautiful. But I like that the, the makeover montage is just like a haircut. It's not like every, you know, it's like she takes off her bangles in one scene and like she cuts her hair in another scene. And that's also that Joan Cusack is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Capable of that kind of layering on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Such short notice, like flow, be level, feather. Really impressive career there.

[Bill Simmons]

So she snaps. Well all of a sudden when she's going to pretend to be the boss.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Fixes her hair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Different. Slightly different outfit. Changes the makeup and all of a sudden looks like a absolute assassin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's just. I thought it's a totally authentic. I completely believe the character.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm in on all her decisions. I actually believe she can navigate this world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she's using like her. Her street smart and street smarts the right way. And the guys are kind of. That one scene when she walks in and it's just a whole room of guys and she does everything about it. It's just really good. I'm actually surprised she didn't win the Best Actress. I understand why. Because the Jodie Foster and the Accused, that was such like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

A big part. It was like a big thing for her. People had a whole history with her. But I don't know if you watch those two performances side by side. I actually think this one might be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Harder since Jody's about to win again. I always like when you sort of relitigate the Oscars. I'm just like, well, would you rather.

[Bill Simmons]

Give it the Silence of the Lambs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought. I think this is a harder part because I don't know who else could have played the part.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a whole roster which we'll talk about later, you know, but. But something that they talked about inside of the casting is they didn't want anyone who was like, too obviously the most beautiful woman in the world.

[Amanda Dobbins]

C. Your beloved. Sorry to step on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, casting what ifs. But Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Michelle Pfeiffer can't work. Yeah, right. They were like, she's too beautiful.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You just don't buy it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You couldn't like watch her bloom into something because she's pre bloomed. So, you know, Melanie Griffith is like the perfect. She's so beautiful, but with the hair and the bangles and all this other stuff like that. You can see how people would overlook her or use her or whatever it is that they're doing.

[Bill Simmons]

There's some baggage that she brings in real life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

In the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

That is perfect. It's like she just turned 30. She's slightly older than Sigourney Weaver and she just looks like there's probably been a couple mistakes in the past and now she's trying to get her shit together that I don't know if Michelle Feifer would bring.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, Michelle Feifer has it like, is pitch perfect, most beautiful person. And there's no vulnerability to her. Or if there is, it's like a different vulnerability. Things have worked out for her since.

[Bill Simmons]

She was 4 years old.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can almost see it with Michelle Pfeiffer with like Married to the Mob or Fabulous Baker Boys. Like there's something in those characters that is almost.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but she's having fun doing that, I guess.

[Bill Simmons]

But they're fabulous baker boys. The most important, important performance by an.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Actress in the history of movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Haven't done that one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do we get to talk about Melanie Griffith personal baggage right now or should we do it later? Well, it's pretty well documented.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a lot of stuff going on here. In her Wikipedia, there's a section for spouses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Don Johnson. Married 1976. Divorced 1976. By the way, she was like 15, right? Don Johnson again married 1989. Divorced 1996. Huh, that's interesting. The double marriage to the same person is a classic Hollywood thing that I don't think happens in real life. Stephen Bauer married 1981. Divorced 1989 I have a Feeling that they probably had some fun. And then Antonio Banderas, from 96 to 2015, she was married to Don Johnson, Stephen Bauer and Antonio Banderas.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What a trifecta.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Three of the greats. She had coke and alcohol stuff for.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Really since she was like a teenager.

[Joanna Robinson]

While she was making this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you can see it in the movie. Yeah. And they, they have all talked about this, but at some point they even had to shut down production because she was under substance abuse. And she.

[Bill Simmons]

So I didn't, I didn't know some of this. Like, I didn't know that they made her pay. Mike Nichols was so mad. He made her pay for the whole day shoot, stuff like that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But you can. Part of the reason that she works is there her face is sometimes like a little puffy and a little something. Especially in some of the early test scenes. And you're like, oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like she, it's not. She looks like she had had like a really rough night the night before. Kind of bloated.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was carousing with Alec Baldwin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, living her life.

[Bill Simmons]

So she ends up getting, they say, clean after the movie, but that some of the stuff was. Griffith said it was the late 80s. There was a lot going on party wise in New York. There's a lot of cocaine. There was a lot of temptation. One of the reasons this movie is rewatchable is because it's fascinating to see her scene by scene and be like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ooh, yeah, that was a good thing. I think that was a rough night.

[Bill Simmons]

Because the TVs are better, the HD is better and you can really sit. There's a couple scenes where she's just got like completely red eyes for no reason and.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it just like works.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I dunked my face in a bowl of ice water this morning. Inspired by Melanie Griffin. I just like, I just want to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Talk about her puffiness. I need to depuff myself. Yeah, I'm correct.

[Bill Simmons]

They said she would, she'd be out till 4:30 in the morning and they would have like a 6:00 clock call time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she would just be flying. So they finally had to shut down one of them. But it really sounded like it was not great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was watching a Harrison Ford interview that he did in promotion of this and they were asking if she was easy to work with or hard. And she's like. He was like, well, I just let everyone do what they do. She's very sensitive, easy to access. And I was like, there you go. He talked Right around it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the 80s were amazing. Is always the lesson in the rewatchables. It was just. There's no decade like it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a lot of that in the movie also there is cocaine, there are muscle relaxers, valium, dim sum, a lot of. Yeah, a lot of booze.

[Bill Simmons]

Like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's full 80s in the Texas.

[Bill Simmons]

100%.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, seems fun.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the era where it's like 6:30 and people just on the set and people are like, where's Melanie? Yeah, there's no cell phones. You have no idea. Like where is she? I don't know. We're filming, getting this, the sun's coming up soon. And then she like comes in probably from some whatever, but that's how they did. Turns out to be the greatest thing that ever happened in her career. Although if you look at her IMDb, this is probably the peak in Pacific Heights.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And yeah, this starts.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean this is it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I do love Pacific Heights.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Me too.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is the peak. So she went in rehab three weeks after filming and then got back together with Don Johnson, my guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

And was pregnant with Dakota for the Oscars that year.

[Bill Simmons]

Ends up having Dakota Fanning.

[Joanna Robinson]

Johnson.

[Bill Simmons]

Dakota Johnson, Yeah. Why did I say Dakota Fanning? Because I'm old. It's only 9:30 in the morning. Ends up having Dakota Johnson. But Don Johnson is on Miami Vice. This is the ponytail year.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When he gets amnesia as Sonny Crocker and thinks he's a hitman.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was listening.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the three episode arc where he's just a hitman.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All culture starts here.

[Bill Simmons]

He shoots tubs.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was looking at the Oscar photos from that year and his hair is just like down past his shoulders, like waving.

[Bill Simmons]

Amazing, Amazing reconciliation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the other piece of it is, well, they were once married before when he was 22 and she was 14. It's like what?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, 14. It's not good.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's great.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think the 80s were. The 70s were like a whole other level. But yeah, she's pretty legendary. She was in Night Moves with Gene Hackman. I think that was 1975. A to be classic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

You see it on to be all the time. And she has nude scenes in that and she's like 13 or 14.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just like, just a different era.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's talked about her childhood.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say exploited was probably a decent word.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. I would say I saw Drowning Pool recently for the first time with Paul Newman where she's like a 15 year old seductress really. And she's really, really good in it. And also, like has chemistry with Paul Newman, who's definitely in his 50s at that point.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, well, it works out.

[Bill Simmons]

She's also. She plays a hitchhiker in the Robbie BENSON Basketball classic, one on one movie I've seen over 100 times. And he picks her up and then she steals money from him. But she's. She's basically just for five straight years, either a hooker.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or some sort of trying to steal from somebody or she's like a street person. Or she's a drug addict.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's just kind of who she became. And that's. So when she does Body Double, that's the first time, like a real director is like, no, no, there's something more here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Though in Body Double, it's not like she's wearing all of her clothes.

[Bill Simmons]

No. She plays a porn star. She plays Holly Body.

[Joanna Robinson]

And what I think is wild about this movie is like, yeah, this is the least sort of like Lolita seductress. She is. And she still is more than your. Your stereotypical rom com lead. Like, Meg Ryan couldn't do this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you know, one of the reasons I was thinking about this because it's a great point. She's very comfortable. Like she's in a bra and panties like three, four different times in this movie where she's just like getting dressed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She vacuuming and topless.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's not like sometimes there's not great camera angles of her and she just doesn't care. Like she's very kind of flat. And I don't know if a lot of like Julia Roberts I don't think would have been, oh, I'm just gonna get dressed in three different scenes. Meg Ryan wouldn't have done it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really love that scene where she's just sort of like kind of awkwardly bending over, fastening the garters. And Alec Baldwin who's reading like Motor Trend Scene is like, you look amazing. And I'm like, yeah, same thing with.

[Bill Simmons]

Joan Cusack when they're trying the different outfits. I don't know. She's very comfortable on screen, which she. There's something about her in everything she's in where you're like, I'm kind of rooting for her. I don't know why. Yes. Pacific Heights being the key.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Evil tenant. She's got to like, get rid of that guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I have a lot of questions about Pacific Heights. You haven't done that yet on Rewatchables Right.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna have. It might not even be from hell month. It might be from hell. From hell. Summer just like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sounds illegal.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I' landlord arrangements there. Yeah, you're just not allowed to go into the paperwork.

[Bill Simmons]

Pile drive into your thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So we have her. We have Sigourney weaver. Who? Her mid-80s, looks like this Ghostbusters, Aliens, Gorillas in the Mist, Working girl and Ghostbusters 2. Basically on a row. And each part's different. This is a really weird Sigourney Weaver in a good way performance where she's just Nancy Kerrigan, a character that would not exist in a movie anymore.

[Amanda Dobbins]

True.

[Joanna Robinson]

How do you mean?

[Bill Simmons]

Just like super kind of heat, checky, pompous. I use my sex appeal. I'm just lying in bed in lingerie with 10 people in a hospital bed around me, and she's just going for it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The lingerie in this movie is. Is of a time, you know, they're all really, really invested in it. Like thigh highs. I just don't think are a part of the. The wardrobe in that way anymore. She's. She's really good at it. And another performance where she is, like, obnoxious and unlikable, but, like, all under a chill. There's like an iciness. And it's nev. It's not big.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's human.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Until she comes in, like, with the crutches and is, like, making a whole scene and, you know, faints.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's what's interesting. She ramps it up in the second half of the movie, and it doesn't feel like it's somebody trying to overreact.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like this character still exists and this character will always exist, which is just sort of like the woman who was born pretty and extremely rich and knows how to work every room.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And. And you're sort. And. And will pretend to give you a hand up and then stab you in the back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's kind of annoying. Like, if you put Kathleen Turner in this role in the mid-80s, I'm not convinced Harrison Ford's going to walk away from it in this case.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, I thought you were gonna. But it's almost like a little too.

[Bill Simmons]

In this case, she's. She's a little annoying. And I can see why. He's like, God, I gotta get.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I'm almost like, why was Jack with her for long enough that she thought they were gonna get married?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, timelines here, you know, are a little confusing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your Sigourney Weaver relationship? She Checks a lot of your boxes.

[Joanna Robinson]

How so?

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of. A lot of different movies that you're into. Yeah. A lot of genres.

[Joanna Robinson]

My main association is Ghostbusters. That's my Sigourney Weaver association.

[Bill Simmons]

What's interesting about her, she doesn't like. I don't know who the 2025 Sigourney Weaver is. She's kind of a one on one, but nobody realized it at the time. The different types of movies she was in.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think like you're Elizabeth Debicki. What's so interesting about this is that the screenwriter said that her role was originally written as a man, which is true for her role in Alien as well. And so the fact that they're like, let's get Sigourney to play the role that we thought we were writing for a man. But let's put a. So that was sort of like a niche for Sigourney Weaver for a little while. Which is so bizarre because she's so like beautiful and sexual and all this sort of stuff like that. But they were just sort of like. There's something about her energy that feels like it could just slide. We didn't change how we wrote the role. We just.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, they have to change some plot points. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Jack stuff. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And the. And the. And it does become more. The fact that it's two women against each other definitely matters.

[Bill Simmons]

You rattled Amanda. Just suggesting they would have changed anything about Working Girl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She was like, she's perfect. The Sigourney Working girl into Dave. Very formidable.

[Bill Simmons]

So I want to talk about that because you have her in Alien and Aliens, which is like this distinct crazy action hero role. Right. That's like only a couple people could have done that. Then you have this Working Girl character and then she's also the first lady and me. Three completely different. And I actually like her the most than Dave. I think that's my favorite Sigourney Weaver. Other than Alien and Aliens, the Dave.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And the working girl at the. Someone who is. Is very, very standoffish. And, you know, I guess they track opposite where in Dave you gotta wear her down. And so she'll be doing Harmony, you know, for the cop when they get pulled over. And in. And in Working Girl, which is just. It's really funny. She's really good.

[Joanna Robinson]

She is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And in Working Girl, she's like sort of charming and weird about the bunny, but then her true layers are revealed. But both times.

[Bill Simmons]

So do you like villain Sigourney or are you like ice queen Sigourney or you like action heroes? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ice queen. Sigourney is Storm.

[Bill Simmons]

Sigourney is another one.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like. Yeah, she's so, like, patrician in this versus an alien. She's a space trucker. Like, I think that's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But there's a steeliness to all of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I like Sigourney Weaver. She's great. Not a hot take. She's one of the most successful actors of the age.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You don't ask Craig for your bravery.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a reason she was in a lot of big movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm still a fan. She's still great. I mean, you know, she's Blue and Avatar or whatever. I don't remember what's going on there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, a teenager. And Avatar.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, and, like, also whale or something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that was a lot of moving.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't remember.

[Craig]

Also for people in my generation, Holes. That's how we were introduced to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know what I just learned about holes last week?

[Craig]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's formative for you.

[Craig]

Yeah. Maybe one of the most formative movies for my generation.

[Bill Simmons]

One thing with her, she's tall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's like, she's. I think she's, like, 5, 11.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm not Joanna tall, but this is the tall woman, like, consortium over here. So I'm taller. Listen, you just made a face like, I don't compete, and I don't compete.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You.

[Joanna Robinson]

I welcome you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Thank you. But we like tall women.

[Bill Simmons]

We have Joanna. Yeah.

[Craig]

Six feet. Sigourney.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. The Chuck Klosterman All Stars of Sneaky Tall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is why it's believable when she lands that basket in Alien Resurrection, right? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's believable. Action hero. Probably hard to cast in certain movies because, like, you can't put her with Tom Cruise.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Speaking of guys, our guy, Harrison Ford.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's. It's really.

[Joanna Robinson]

As we know, our really good friend Mali Rubin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Loves Harrison Ford more than. I'm gonna give that to her. Anyone else on this planet.

[Craig]

Her.

[Joanna Robinson]

She thinks the. The most attractive Harrison Ford has ever been is in Witness canonically. This is peak Harrison Ford.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is my hottest take. In honor of Mallory Rubin, bang it out now. And also in honor of Luke Wilson. Could have been Harrison Ford. No, he could not. This is the hottest he's ever been.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the hottest he's ever been.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, keep your Han Solo. Keep your indie. I really. I mean, the Witness, it's tough. And Mallory did give me her spot, and so I feel Bad. And the Sam cooks powerful.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't feel bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

She hates working girls.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't feel bad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does.

[Bill Simmons]

She's here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does love working girls.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is he like?

[Bill Simmons]

And we're doing Witness for her. And she can do Harrison Ford for an hour.

[Joanna Robinson]

Joanne and I are horrified inside of the hottest he's ever been inside of a movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's the hottest moment for Harrison Ford inside of this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it's a little obvious, but when he's changing his shirt and then kind of, you know, the audience is cheering. And he's also like, I like that he takes this role. It's a nothing role. He's just there to, like, be handsome and support her. And he does it with such charm and is like, sure, I'll just do whatever you need. And that scene where he's just like, okay, I guess I'll get shirtless and, you know, make fun of myself and let a office of women clap for me. I find that appealing.

[Joanna Robinson]

The shirtless scene is very good. I would. I see that. And I will raise you a bit of tzatziki on the corner of his mouth. Being emotionally vulnerable about how he needs this trade. Yeah, he needs this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, that's true. He is a little more open. He's a little goofy in this. Almost a little Jimmy Stewart in him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which I wouldn't say typically is my type. So I guess I gravitate towards the slightly more, you know, asshole version of him. Like, you know, I told. I promised myself when we met we'd drink tequila. Is a line that would work on me 10 out of 10 times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Such a good line.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a question.

[Bill Simmons]

He's 45 when they filmed this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Looks incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've heard conflicting reports. So a couple years ago, I read a Harrison Ford biography where he talked about. They talked about this movie. And his initial response to being offered this role was, I don't wanna take this role. It's her picture. Why would I take this role? It's her movie. It wouldn't be my movie. And that the. The way it was depicted in that book. They then give the role to Alec Baldwin, right? And then he goes, actually, I want the movie. Then they bump Alec Baldwin down. That is true. Well, the other story I've heard is that it was impressive, but it's fine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And also all the Mike Nichols stuff, we haven't even. This is directed.

[Bill Simmons]

Mike Nichols is next.

[Joanna Robinson]

Y.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But that Nichols did want Baldwin, and then the studio was like, Melanie Griffith and Alec GW Baldwin aren't enough names.

[Bill Simmons]

So you guys are stomping over C late now?

[Joanna Robinson]

The casting already?

[Bill Simmons]

Baldwin had it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, and then they called and got demoted to Nick.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, bad news.

[Joanna Robinson]

But guess what? He's great as.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's fine. Really. Really.

[Bill Simmons]

His career was fine. At least until Rest.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This and Beetlejuice.

[Bill Simmons]

Too soon. Sorry.

[Joanna Robinson]

This and Beetlejuice together. Come on, it's great.

[Bill Simmons]

To back up your Harrison Ford point, I present to you this North Dunn story that I'm gonna read. We all had such a crush on him. One time Harrison walked up to me and said, I hear that you're working on a different project and that's why you're working tonight. What are you working on? I could barely speak. I said, I'm working on Saturday Night Live. He said, oh, yes, Sorry, I haven't seen it. It. What an amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anyway, Is it good?

[Bill Simmons]

It's been for 13 years at that point. And I go, oh, it's not that good. Laughs I disowned everything about myself. I even had my hand in my pocket wrenching off my wedding ring. I turned into a complete ignoramus. I came home very late that night, five in the morning. My husband was bad. He said, I'm glad you're home. I have a better half. Blah, blah, blah. And she goes, I was such a traitor because I was blown away by Harrison Ford. He was in such great shape and such an absolutely perfect movie star. The whole package agree nor done.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

By all accounts, one of the most unfriendly actions. Just completely, all in, all in on his 80s. Just wanted to mention this, not that people who listen to this podcast wouldn't know this, but two Raiders of the Lost Ark movies. Actually a third because he made the third.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Two Star Wars, Blade Runner, Witness, Mosquito Coast, Frantic, and then this movie that's all in the 80s, just from 80 to 89. Just banging him out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This man does not have an Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

Banging it out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is a crime.

[Bill Simmons]

They're gonna give him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I want a crowd. I want it on stage.

[Bill Simmons]

What would his Oscar have been?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, what would you give it for?

[Bill Simmons]

Regarding Henry.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fugitive.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the way, I love Regarding Henry. Mosquito Coast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I liked. I saw it. I. I like your joke. It's a recurring bit regarding Henry.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's, you know, I like Regarding Henry.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't like it, but he's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this your audition for the regard Henry. I'm just saying I love it on the list.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love Regarding Henry. Lovable.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He is like, he goes some new places, you know, and you never really see him be that sweet.

[Bill Simmons]

The cast in this movie. I love Harrison Ford.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Can brain damage make you a better person? That's. That's the question regarding Henry.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Harri. Harrison Ford, I think might have the highest approval rating of any actor of all time. Craig, what's your relationship with Harrison Ford?

[Craig]

He's my number one favorite actor ever.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, good.

[Bill Simmons]

Every generation loves Harrison Ford.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's nice that it's been handed down.

[Bill Simmons]

The rule with this stuff is if you're at a party and somebody said, you know, I fucking hate Harrison Ford, people would be like, what? Why?

[Amanda Dobbins]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you just wouldn't believe it. Everybody loves Harrison Ford.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not even the airplane antics could bring him down.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, not even.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's had a lot of weird moments.

[Bill Simmons]

Last 20 years.

[Joanna Robinson]

A higher Q rating than even like a Tom Hank. Hanks, genuinely.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, 100.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. He's Indiana Jones and Han Solo, among all the other things that he wanted to do.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the most popular actor of my lifetime.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Now some of that helps because he was been in some of the most popular movies of all time.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's also just so cool and like, is still cool.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Ryan thinks Luke Wilson could have had his career. Other people in this cast. Alec Baldwin. You mentioned him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Young Alec Baldwin.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll cover him later.

[Joanna Robinson]

Landing Alec Baldwin.

[Bill Simmons]

Joan Cusack nominated for an Oscar, which is I found strange, but very good. It's.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Girl, you know, I would give it to her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Nora, don't mention Oliver Platt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Starting his role of like, this guy's in an office or in a business. Is he a good guy, a bad guy? Is he going to be the villain in this movie or like the sidekick? Who knows? Spacy Olympia Duakas is in this one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Scene the year after winning the Oscar. She's wonderful.

[Bill Simmons]

We got to take a break and then we'll talk about Mike Nichols. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed? That's happened to me. Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting. Have you done that, Sierra? I have, yeah. Or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. All right. This movie's directed by Mike Nichols, who had such a fascinating career that Mark Harris wrote, I think, one of the best Hollywood biographies I ever read four years ago about him.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Was like, I always thought this guy was interesting. And then it's like 500 pages of how interesting and bizarre his life was. And this. So his run in the 80s, just from 83 to 89, was Silkwood, Harper, Biloxi Blues, Working Girl, Postcards from the Edge, and then regarding Henry 91. But movies that just intersect with you, your brain, your life, this is like. Is he like your favorite director?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that of all those movies that you mentioned, all starring or centered on women, which in the 80s, you know, you didn't always get that. He was famously a comedian. Part of Nichols and May.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then, you know, moved into. And a theater legend, moved into directing films. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and then the Graduate. And because he has so much theater work, he's just. He's like, really good at people talking and characters and people being believable and in real life situations and like, the world around them is always very well observed. And, you know, we say all the time they don't do it like they used to. But Mike Nichols types of movies where people are just trying to get something in life and being people and they are people that you recognize. He is fantastic at it.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's this personal piece that didn't click for me until I reread the section of the. Of the Harris biography, is that this is when he gets together with Diane Sawyer, who, you know, he considers the love of his life and is like. They describe them as like giddy teenagers. They're so in love in this section in the book. And so the fact that he's, like, found the great love of his life right as he's making this, like, beautiful love story inside of Working Girl is really sweet.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And there is also, like. So I think that Mike Nichols biography, which is wonderful. So much of it is like, his life seems so great. I mean, he was like the creme de la creme in New York. Friends with Nora Ephron, Mary Diane Sawyer, like, has a house in Connecticut and like, raises horses. For some reason, I don't even really know what that is all about. But like, a very, like, educated, fancy, like, wealthy, you know, New York society guy. But he is, in fact, like a German immigrant, like, worked through all of that. And for me, the biography pointed out, like, the Tess character is. Relates to him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And there are a lot of shots of her going past and forth, the Statue of Liberty. Like, it's not subtle once you see that. And this person, an outsider who, like, wants to be in the finer Things like, wants to be a part of this, like, great quote, unquote, American whatever. Definitely comes from him as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's interesting. I was watching a Candice Bergen interview where she was talking about his horses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was like, I think he surrounded himself with wealth to sort of inoculate him, like because he was so afraid of going back to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

That sort of humble immigrant roots. And so he's just sort of like, I've got horses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I eat caviar, I'm BFF with Carly Simon. Like all this sort of stuff like that. It's just sort of like, I'm never going back.

[Bill Simmons]

Back. Yeah. He was big on chartered planes and just kind of obscene wealth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He lived well. How about that?

[Bill Simmons]

The book made a big. That was a big piece of the second half of the book is he's so kind of obsessed with just garnering wealth because he wants to fly private everywhere he goes. He wants to stay in like the bay. So he ends up taking some. Some projects that basically just for the paycheck. And his 90s get pretty strange.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

He makes some. Some bad ones and basically does some money grab stuff. But.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also the masterpiece regarding Henry, so. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

But he, he belongs to this different era though, of when like these, these like very powerful, creative guys felt like they ran New York. And now it's kind of over. Like Graydon Carter retired and lorne Michaels is 80. But you had this run in the 80s 90s where it was like Mike Nichols. Graydon Carter. Yeah, Mike Nichols. There was like these six, seven of them. And it felt like all of New York culture just kind of ran through all of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Harrison Ford.

[Bill Simmons]

They're all friends with each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Harrison Ford talks about how like every day they shot. They also went out to these like really long lunches at the best restaurants and had the wittiest conversation. And that was what it was like to work with Mike Nicholas.

[Bill Simmons]

And Spy magazine was starting to even parody some of this stuff at this point. But Nicholas, fascinating guy. I think, think when I think about his movies, especially when you look at all these in a row. Just really good with lead female characters. Just want to like, he just for some reason and. And they all loved him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Works with Meryl Streep three times. Yeah, yeah. Well, in that day. And then, you know, she comes back.

[Bill Simmons]

For which, you know, I wouldn't call him like breathtakingly handsome, but it seemed like the.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he and Melanie have the same number of marriages.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he had a lot going on in really, his whole life until he found the trouble.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, yeah, so to that point, when they gave him the sort of, like, AFI Award, every single tribute speech was given by a woman. Yeah, yeah. It was like Nora Ephron, Elaine May, Meryl Streep, Cher, Candice Bergen. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there was an oral history. I didn't read it. It came out last year because I felt like the biography, I was good with my thing. Nichols. I didn't really need to double down. But there's an oral history on it. It's called something like Mike Nichols as told by 150 of his closest friends. So that was a really good title. Screenplay was written by Kevin Wade, who went to New York City in 84 and saw all these career women walking through the streets in tennis shoes, carrying his high heels and was like, that feels like a movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we go. Ends up getting nominated for six Academy Awards. Best Picture, Best Director, doesn't win. Best Actress. Griffith loses. Best Supporting Actress, Weaver and Cusack. And only wins for Carly Simons. One of only. I think this is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right, guys. How are the levels on that?

[Bill Simmons]

Only this and Bruce Springsteen's Philadelphia. I think, at least in my research, maybe there's been one in the last couple years they didn't update but one. Best Original Song, Oscars, Grammy, Golden Globe, all three. Triple Crown.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Not like you wouldn't know it's a Carly Simon song.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you would think it's. It could be, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, it's not.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just a popular.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it sound like Carly Simon to you, though?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I don't remember a time where I didn't know this was a Carly Simon song. So this just is the car. But, like, the way that she hums throughout the movie is very Gilmore Girls to me. You know what I mean? So, like, all of that is connected in its own special DNA for this movie, Gilmore Girls. But I think that, like, that's Carole King, but it's like, it's. It's a very similar, like, vibe. And I think what's interesting, according to my research, is that originally she wrote a bunch of songs for this movie, and they were all very explicitly telling you what was happening in the plot. Yeah, right. So they just cut.

[Bill Simmons]

But she's just trying to get.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, time to cut your hair. You know, whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

So Best Picture, Rain man beats it. Okay, good category that year. Rain Man, Accidental Tourist, Dangerous Liaisons, Mississippi Burning, Working Girl.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'd probably Give it to Dangerous Liaisons. But I would give it to Working Girl over Rain Man.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would.

[Bill Simmons]

Dangerous Liaisons person.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I love Dangerous Liaisons. Yeah, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that you throwing your hat in the rain?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I'm not. Audition.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just every time I say I like.

[Bill Simmons]

A movie doesn't mean no, because I love that movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. It's a great movie.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think CR. It's too, you know, CR Turns into, like, that timid Irish Catholic guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Glenn Close. Malkovich.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I still go for Working Man. I mean, Working Girl over Rain Man.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Working Girl over Rain man was like a real thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Rain man was a phenomenon. Yeah, this was, too. But Rain man was like a phenomenon.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think we were constantly quoting Rain Man. We weren't quoting Working Girl necessarily.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, Barry Levinson wins Best directing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

My dad's favorite director of all.

[Bill Simmons]

And Hoffman wins for Best actor, Best Actress. Melanie Griffith loses to Jodie Foster. Glenn Close is in there for Dangerous Liaisons, which is a fucking incredible performance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's the winner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But is that where her trajectory of always being the loser starts? That's the one.

[Bill Simmons]

Her taking off the makeup at the end.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's very good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it. It took, like, a couple more nominations before everyone became the Susan Lucci of Austin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's where we could have turned it around, Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Before it started, honestly.

[Bill Simmons]

Meryl Streep and A Cry in the Dark. I don't remember that movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's not. Is that Dingo Ate My Baby?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And then Sigourney got nominated for Girls in the Mist. All right. No, best actor, supporting, but best actress, Cusack and Sigourney. So Sigourney with the double nomination. I always love when that happens. Stronger.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is also one of the rare three women nominated from one movie, right? Yeah. I don't think that there. It's like, maybe All About Eve is Chicago.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's only happening a couple times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Catherine Cedar Jones and Frances McDormand.

[Bill Simmons]

You might have heard of her.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have.

[Bill Simmons]

Mississippi Burning, Pfeiffer, Dangerous Liaisons, and then Geena Davis wins for the Accidental Tourist. Well, don't. Don't. No, don't. Save it. Some really good ones didn't get nominated that year. I just want to point out. I don't. I think Joan Cusack's really good in this movie. I also don't think it's that important of a part. And I can't believe she got nominated because Elizabeth Perkins in Big.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's pretty good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wouldn't that be lead?

[Bill Simmons]

I think you could throw in that supporting. Susan Sarandon, Bull Durham. Not nominated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Once again, that's lead. Yeah, well, she should have been nominated.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think you could have shoehorned it into supporting to try to get.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you a category purist?

[Joanna Robinson]

Not necessarily, but I don't think they played such fast and loose games with category fraud. Back in the square it goes.

[Bill Simmons]

This is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't mind it at the end of the day, especially if someone, like, hasn't gotten an award and can get an easy one in supporting, where they can't compete in lead.

[Bill Simmons]

What about Hopkins? 16 minutes for Hannibal Lecter, best actor, 16 minutes of the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's fine with me.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

I support it.

[Bill Simmons]

3. Three men who didn't get nominated. Charles Grodin in Midnight Run.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Alan Rickman and Die Hard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also tough.

[Bill Simmons]

Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons. What the fuck are we doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

They nominated Dangerous Liaison for Best Picture and did not nominate Malkovich, which is wild. Truly wild. But what's funny is, like, you mentioned Die Hard and you say Die Hard to me now. I was like, well, Die Hard's not gonna get nominated for something. But Working Girl is such an improbable. Doesn't it seem like now Working Girl feels like. I mean, not in an honora year necessarily, but like, you're like, oh, this is just an 80s Rom com. And I think growing up, it wouldn't have occurred to me that this was a six. Yeah, I was Oscar nominated.

[Bill Simmons]

I was surprised by six, but it was a massive movie. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Malkovich really hurts. It does. I don't understand that one. We saw this movie when I was in college, and it was right when I was really getting into movies from, like, a bigger picture way. And we just. We all left the theater and we were like, holy fucking. That movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dangerously.

[Bill Simmons]

And we were like, uma Malkovich. Yeah. I mean, just everything but we were like, that was like, is that, like, the greatest acting performance of all? Like, we didn't know any better.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Who was nominated?

[Bill Simmons]

So Best supporting Kevin Klein. One for Fish that Save Wanda. Al Guinness, Little Dora, Martin Landau, Tucker, the Man in His Dream. River Phoenix, Running an empty. And then Dean Stockwell married to the mob.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so just some old timers.

[Bill Simmons]

They just. They.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kevin Klein.

[Bill Simmons]

And Kevin Klein wins.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Grodin I think bothers me the most, other than Malkovich. But regardless, $28 million budget for Working Girl made $103 million and then lived on for the next 38 years.

[Joanna Robinson]

And counting and son, Guys, we used to live in a better world where a working girl could make over $100 million and get nominated for six Oscars.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well. Roger Ebert. Four stars, Raj. The plot of Working Girl is put together like clockwork. Carries you along while you're watching it, but reconstruct it later and you'll see the craftsmanship.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's called Cinderella, but that's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Working Girl is Nichols returning to the top of his form and Griffith finding hers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Solid.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Because they didn't like Biloxi Blues very much.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I defend heartburn big time. Even though it was not well received.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like to think about heartburn more than I like watching heartburn.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, who's Melanie Griffith for your generation?

[Craig]

I mean, Dakota Johnson. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think that's fair.

[Craig]

I mean, she kind of, you know, she's single. Similar. Ish. Beginnings.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do the categories.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

We just saw a Dakota Johnson movie earlier.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She has really shiny hair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

But a similar smile.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does, but I. When we were talking about Don Johnson's hair, I was like, oh, maybe the hair is from Don Johnson. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the smiles for Melanie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really, really shiny.

[Bill Simmons]

What a legendary, most rewatchable scene. Opening credits. I'm just throwing it out. Really good. Statue of Liberty, and you get to see All New York. And then it's like, ah, they're the Twin Towers. And then there's Statin Island Ferry.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And then it goes right into them on the ferry. And the shoes and the. You know, they get that in. In the first few minutes, it's Feels like it's cheesy. Well, it's on my list.

[Bill Simmons]

No, we have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, we have a bunch. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It feels like it's going to be cheesy, and then it's not cheesy. It's like, I'm actually enjoying this little.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you liked it both times because you said you liked watching this movie the second time more than the first time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What?

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you bump the first time?

[Bill Simmons]

Because I was just. Every time. It's like the hair and the clothes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, my God, this movie feels.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My son walked by the TV at one point. He's like, the. Is this movie? He was just completely confused by it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, is this a Mad Max movie? What is this?

[Bill Simmons]

All right, next one I have is Bob from Arbitrage in the limo with Tess. Because it's so fascinating to see. Spacey. We're going to party. I'm starting a new category. The Kevin Spacey Doing Cocaine Showing Porn and Inappropriately Sexually Harassing Tests in a Limo award for Craziest Foreshadowing of a real life event.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if we'll ever hit that category out again.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I haven't. What age? The best. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It's like, wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They knew.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nichols.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Perceptive.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like that when she types in. David Lutz is a sleazoid pimp with a tiny little dick.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sleepwid pimp is incredible. It's one of my most 1987 things. The word sleazoid, which we don't use anymore. And that's sad.

[Bill Simmons]

Tess and Sigourney's office. I'm just gonna call her Sigourney. Throughout the movie. I know she's Catherine. She's talking German.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, sure. When she calls to make the.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's like the resurrection.

[Bill Simmons]

She's just. Just really turning it on. But then gives the. Tess, you don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. Make it happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

While wearing her ski boots over nylon. Yeah. Before she gets on the phone and starts speaking German, she says, well, did you tell them it was me? Which is just like. That's some. That's some special energy to bring to the world.

[Bill Simmons]

I also like how Melanie Griffith is reacting off of what a pompous, like, piece of shit boss she is. But she's just kind of.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's absorbing.

[Bill Simmons]

She's trying to absorb. And she's actually, like, genuinely interested in her answers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I really like when she asks Sigourney, like, well, what happens if he doesn't propose? And Sigourney goes, I really don't think that's a variable.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm me, so.

[Bill Simmons]

Also good office. Get a nice little shot. You can hear the fairy in the background.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. So you got that? Tess goes to the bar and meets Harrison Ford.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's fine. Obviously, that's my number one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

100%.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a head for business. And a bod for sins.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ye.

[Bill Simmons]

Huh?

[Joanna Robinson]

Alzheimer.

[Bill Simmons]

I looked for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know me? No. No. I promised myself that when I saw you I would get to know you. You're the first woman I've seen in one of these damn things that dresses like a woman, not like a woman thinks a man would dress if he was a woman.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess. What are you doing here? Actually, I'm looking for someone myself.

[Joanna Robinson]

His Name is Jack Trainer.

[Bill Simmons]

He works at Du Stone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you know if he's here?

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you looking for him? You're the first woman I've seen at one of these things that dresses like a woman, not like a woman thinks a man would dress if. Yeah, I thought, that's a good line.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The costuming throughout is great, but you see all the other women are in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, gray business suits, and they clock.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Her and look at her like, what's wrong with her?

[Joanna Robinson]

She shows up and thinking that she completely misdressed for this occasion, which she kind of did. But she looks.

[Bill Simmons]

She looks great. I think that's the best.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She looks incredible and really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Harrison Ford double take shot. Yeah, this scene's really good. I. This has one of my favorite moves that you can do in a rom com. The guy not saying who he is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When he meets our lead character is just like. That works 98% of the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

The costume designer, Ann Roth, one of the things that she said was like, I cheated with that dress. She's like. Because no way could Sigourney Weaver wear that dress. Because is way too short on her. So tall that it would just look silly on her. But she was like, who cares? It's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, when you write your AI Romcom, okay, put in something about the guy who meets the lead character and lies to her, doesn't admit that he's the character.

[Craig]

Yeah. I didn't tell Liz who I was when I met her.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like, don't you work the ringer? I was like, no, the. I don't. Maybe I. I might be alone on this for a rewatchable scene, but I like the party when. When Nick and Tess get in the fight after, and he goes, who the fuck died and made you Grace Kelly? And then she comes back with, I am that steak. You can't just order me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just fucking great screenwriting. But I like that scene. I like when they fight.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's good. She looks good in that one too. The I. Because the incident where they had to shut down production happened on Staten Island. I. The whole time I was just watching.

[Joanna Robinson]

Being like, is this the one?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is this one? I don't think that that's the one.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's when she's. They're watching Pizza Box. Oh, you think it's the wedding?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think it was the wedding because they had. That was the one they had to delay by a day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it was.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think it was the wedding where she's dressed in the bridesmaid's outfit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, do you think she was so tanked because she couldn't stand being in that bright turquoise bridesmaid?

[Amanda Dobbins]

That was tough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I really love every single moment of the luau wedding party.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

The drinks are great. I like the bartenders and the waiters.

[Amanda Dobbins]

To a wedding over Memorial Day. They played that song, and I was like, this is a working girl wedding song. Where am I?

[Bill Simmons]

Why didn't you have a luau wedding?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because we didn't dream big enough, you know?

[Bill Simmons]

Any regrets? Would you do it over again?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because Zach planned it, so I, you know, I wanted to do city hall and he planned the wedding, but maybe we should do renewal of vows.

[Joanna Robinson]

Luau.

[Bill Simmons]

A renewal vow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I agree. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Can Joanna be invited, please?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I also, I never. I didn't have a 40th birthday party, so maybe it can be 40th birthday vow renewal, Luau homage. Yeah, let's go.

[Joanna Robinson]

I need a tall, like, just red 40 drinks. Whatever it is that Harrison voice is drinking with the straws from Dunkin Donuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig, have you ever been to a themed wedding?

[Craig]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

See, I think this was a 70s 80s thing that went away because we took weddings less seriously when I was a kid.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they eventually had to become these big, serious, major events.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love when the bride enters the bathroom in tears and she's like, my husband says it looks like Nicaragua. Did we go too big?

[Bill Simmons]

We get a Ricki Lake cameo out of nowhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

Duchovny's in this, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Duchovny's in the scene when they fight.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's also in the, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he's in the wedding, too?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This. The company's got this slick back hair thing going on.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's his don't tell mom the babysitter's dead hair.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I like when she dances with Tras, too. I like Trask. I think he's good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple more. Jack telling her where he got his scar. You guys talked about that scene earlier?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. No, no, that's different. Shirtless scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When? After he's come back from Memphis and he's at the office.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he's on the phone, and so he's doing like, the, like, gym class. Change the shirt while the phone thing, you know, it's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

And all the ladies in the office beyond window start cheering for him. And he's like, yeah, that was. You know, you like. You imagine what offices are like watching these things. So growing up watching like the Mary Tyler Moore shows. Like, okay, you always have a bottle of booze in the bottom drawer of your desk. And then watching this, I was like. And you have fresh shirts, of course, in case you just flew back from Memphis.

[Bill Simmons]

And shoes and sneakers. All kinds of things. Nobody would steal anything. I thought it was believable. Post coitus bedtalk with the them. They usually ruin those scenes in romcoms or in top.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Charming. I mean, well, well.

[Bill Simmons]

Just laughing hysterically. My favorite. Craig, we might have to break that scene down. And ringer movies. Yeah, I just. I have so many thoughts. It's one of the funniest two minute scenes of this century.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's really, really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Couple more. Jack visits Catherine with Tess hiding in the apartment. I was like that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We have to do the trees.

[Bill Simmons]

Company me. Can Big Jack come out to play? Makes me laugh. The boardroom showdown. Got that? The elevator showdown.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then I really like when she meets the new assistant at the end.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That whole interaction is so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Amy Aquino. Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I expect you to call me Tess. I don't expect you to fetch me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Coffee unless you're getting some for yourself.

[Bill Simmons]

And the rest will just make up.

[Joanna Robinson]

As we go along. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Does the thing about only get me coffee if you're also getting coffee? Whatever.

[Amanda Dobbins]

For yourself?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. It's just like, oh, this is good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's learned lessons and the rest will make it up as we go along.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Mike Nichols is like, but don't get too excited and just pan.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're just a random.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're just a mouse in the chat. All right, so what's your most rewatchable?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I add one?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So after they meet, Harrison Ford and Tess meet and then she passes out from the Valium and he takes her home and props her up in the chair and then is doing like a whole solo date with her.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you like a nightcap? I guess not. It's too late for coffee. Herb tea.

[Joanna Robinson]

Herb tea.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't have any. It always sounds good when people offer it to me when I'm in your shape.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's like, would you like some nightcap? Would you like some tea? And she's flopping over. He is so funny. And he is just. I mean, he is acting against, you know, Melanie Griffith as a rag doll.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very funny. I do have it. Under what age? The worst.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

But.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But he didn't. And in the end he did the right thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mostly he took off her dress, which he didn't need.

[Amanda Dobbins]

To do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Got in the bed with her while he is also naked. I'm saying, put her on your couch. Sleep on the couch.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, we don't. We don't know if he's naked with.

[Joanna Robinson]

A bare shirt, no shirt, on the couch.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had. For what, Sage. The worst for this whole thing that they just wouldn't have this scene in the movie now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

But.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was kind of. There's kind of an innocence to it that I appreciate.

[Joanna Robinson]

He says, would you like a nightcap? No. And he's like, would you like. He's like, this always makes me feel better when I'm in your position. Like, it is funny. It's really funny.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That funny thing about, like, the. The apartment may be not clean and, like, I don't mind, but people become.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, yeah, it's very funny.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's really, really good. Harrison Ford.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And good physical comedy.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would like to add the farce of Melanie Griffith pretending to be the boss. Joan Cusack pretending to be her secretary trying to get in. And Ford's in the office. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So what do you have for me, sir? Rachel.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I'm. The opening. I think it's. I think the opening. That's hard, though, with the wedding and then also the elevators. Do I have to pick the whole movie?

[Bill Simmons]

You have to pick. It's all planetary. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The elevators. The elevators.

[Bill Simmons]

Do I have to pick? Nobody's ever asked that on rewatchables.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know, but I'm so excited.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It took me, like, my second watch to find any, like, what? Aged poorly happy. Yeah, I picked the wedding elevator. No, I picked the elevator at the end.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. What do you have, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

The Meet Cute at the bar. Yeah, it's really good. It's really good. I don't think he'd be ordering gold tequila, but other than that, 10 out of 10, no notes.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the bar.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the most 1988 thing about this movie? I have seven candidates, but give me your best one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The eyeshadow.

[Joanna Robinson]

The hair.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had. I had all the haircuts.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The makeup and the eyeshadow. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The shoulder. When she's. When they have sex and they're undressing each other in his apartment. And she's got, like, a translucent blouse on, but you can see the shoulder pads through the translucent bath. Yeah, that's shoulder pads.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a couple more runners up because the hair is the answer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They feel great. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about the powder blue ruffle tux? Look, sure. Wedding, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

The twin towers, sadly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Multiple women calling themselves secretary.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think that word's been said in 15 years.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, you may quite a correct at the end. If it's okay. I prefer assistant.

[Joanna Robinson]

Assistant.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Lark cigarettes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, good one. I don't know what those are.

[Joanna Robinson]

Me neither.

[Bill Simmons]

A lead movie character. Regularly reading newspapers and magazines.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about radio being a.

[Bill Simmons]

Radio being a thing. But my number one, other than the hair is Catherine's exercise bike. Oh yeah, that, that she gets on it. That thing looks like it's out of like 1884.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very good.

[Bill Simmons]

Like I think Taylor Sheridan used it for one of his go back show. I think I. I can't even. It looked like it weighed 140 pounds. It's like made of wood.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean it's clever though because you're also like, you're sort of doing a crunch. You're using the core as your. As you're pedaling. It looks hard.

[Bill Simmons]

And they have like the old mid-80s TV with like the VCR on it. It was like. It's just the most 80s scene in all the movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Somehow the, all the, all the computer monitors, all the printouts.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah, the computers, the email. Yeah, all that stuff. Okay, let's take one more break and we'll do what suits the best. This episode is brought to you by New Pro Namo Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste. One thing we all try to do to stay healthy is to keep up a routine. Things like daily yoga or trying to maintain a healthy diet. So how about making oral health part of your day? Brush your teeth twice daily with pronamel clinical enamel strength for 3 times stronger enamel protection. And to help protect teeth for life, try new pronamel Clinical Enamel Strength Toothpaste right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Bill Simmons]

All right, what's age? The best. What do you got?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let the river run. The. The song and. And the score and the way they use it. You know, when the chandelier is coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Coming down. And it's just like the organ. Like you're at a church. But it's let the river run and like. And then once.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like rom com gospel music.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. But it's really, really well done. And I do also think like that, like the bigness of it. That first shot of the Statue of Liberty and got all the drums going. And it's like, oh, okay, we're.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll go further. It shouldn't work. Yeah, it should have. It should have failed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But we're going to make rom com gospel music. And that should just like. That shouldn't work.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it works.

[Joanna Robinson]

It works.

[Bill Simmons]

Gets me. I'm singing it walking into.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love it. That gets stuck in my head all the time. That song gets stuck in my head.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's anthemic. It's.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you have supportive work. Husband Jack Trainor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. That's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You liked when they were making toast together.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so cute in the kitchen. And he packs her a lunch, which.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He got monogrammed very quickly because I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

Still waiting for my first.

[Joanna Robinson]

When does Trap say report to my office tomorrow morning.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They do have to go back their contracts.

[Joanna Robinson]

It seems like they've been living together for a little while. When she.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. I'm also like, how did you get.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know. Or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you and Zach like share a toast? And it pops out of the toaster and you butter it and then he puts.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He does bring me coffee though. So yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, he does.

[Bill Simmons]

Great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it is very nice. And he's the barista.

[Bill Simmons]

Zach plans weddings and brings you coffee.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really a renaissance fan.

[Joanna Robinson]

The full package.

[Bill Simmons]

The full package I have for what stage the best. Other than David Duchovny's cameo. And I really love the round table that they have near the end of the movie. It's just. I was almost thinking about it for the ringer. We do like a 12 person podcast with this giant round. What stage the best. Jack's tequila gold order, which seemed really rambunctious in the late 80s. Like you ordered tequila. It was basically like doing cocaine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's how she reacts.

[Bill Simmons]

But just that he was a tequila guy. Now it's like Tequila's, you know, one of the go to.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's my drink, Tequila.

[Bill Simmons]

But in the 80s.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm telling you, in the 80s people were afraid of tequila.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like, you drink tequila, you'll black out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even know what tequila Gold is.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's cheaper than it. You know what I think a jack trainer would order.

[Bill Simmons]

Jack being on tequila early, though it.

[Craig]

Was also a double. And then he got two of them. So they really had four shots in 10 seconds.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And she had taken four Valiums.

[Joanna Robinson]

I should have checked the milligrams.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Live and learn.

[Joanna Robinson]

Live and learn.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage the best. This will be my Harrison Ford contribution to whatever great clothes in this movie by him. I was admiring all of the outfits and the tie choices. It wasn't 1988 at all. It actually felt like you could wear a lot of the. Those suits. I was impressed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Joanna mentioned Ann Roth did the costumes. Who is like a legend and like.

[Bill Simmons]

Across the board, solid colors for the most part.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, because once Tess has her makeover, it's like really communicating something both, like very 80s, but very different about who that character is or who that character is trying to be. Like the Sigourney Weaver's entire.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is so.

[Joanna Robinson]

All of her skirt suits. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The details are spot on and they really do make the character. But he. I agree that he looks great. His overcoat. He's got a scarf, you know, great clothes.

[Bill Simmons]

Richard Gere and Pretty Woman. Also great clothes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a sneaky thing when you have like the rom com guy who's gotta be a wealthy guy. The clothes have to work and the clothes fit.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which I would just give a note to all men now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Find a tailor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Clothes don't fit anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

I have for what stage the best? The Melanie Griffith, hot mess, stealth smart, baby voice, archetype.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

As a movie character, I'm always in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Who else you got?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just I'm in when it's like, oh, I'm gonna underestimate. I'm gonna. And there's way more going on here. But nobody sees it. But we, the audience see it, but nobody else does yet. It just works.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So, Craig, add that to the rom com.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I guess. Princess Diaries. Yeah, it's another one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I guess she's not really baby voice.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's just a teenager.

[Bill Simmons]

Well.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But she doesn't believe in herself.

[Bill Simmons]

Deborah is proud of them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

When Meryl Streep's just ripping her a new one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Before the makeover. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's age the best? Trying to guess which scenes Melanie Griffith filmed right after she was out. 4:30 the morning, night before. It's weirdly like a great part of this Movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you can win that game. Actually, you can.

[Bill Simmons]

How about this tidbit? I don't know where. What category to put this, but I'll put it in what stage. The best Working Girl became an NBC series in 1990 because this is what we did in the 80s and early 90s. We. A movie was successful and they had.

[Joanna Robinson]

No ideas before they turned them into Broadway musicals.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know who starred as Tess?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I do not.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't. Will you give us a hint?

[Bill Simmons]

Want to play 20 questions?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Go ahead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brunette or blonde?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, you have to say. I was gonna say is she blonde?

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she blonde?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she, Bernie?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Is she still working today?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she more of a tv. Is she TV actress?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Has she been in a Rewatchables movie?

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Has she won an Oscar?

[Bill Simmons]

This is really fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She won an Oscar. Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Dark hair has won an Oscar, has been a rewatchless movie. Still working. I'm like. My hands. I'm like brunette, throwing them under the table. I'm like. I can't. I want to reach for my computer. So I'm like, okay, it's not Sandra Bullock, because she's not really still working. It is Sandra Bullock.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sandra Bullock.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's not working.

[Craig]

I mean, well, she hasn't been working.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She hasn't made movies in a long time. She has her own life. Listen, people make choices, but it's Sandra.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bullock, take the win.

[Bill Simmons]

Sandra Bullock, take the win.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Sandra Bullock book 12 episodes of Working Girl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Somewhere on YouTube.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, There you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does she have the hair, Craig? Does she have the hair and the makeup and everything?

[Craig]

That. I don't know. I'll look that up, though.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

What was her Oscar? I forget.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Blindside.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You ready for that? Rewatchable?

[Bill Simmons]

That's Van. Van's already.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Van didn't just request to be on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He.

[Bill Simmons]

What stage? The best. This quote, never burn bridges. Today's junior prick. Tomorrow's senior partner.

[Joanna Robinson]

Good lesson in life.

[Bill Simmons]

And then I had the Officer and a Gentleman homage when they're kissing in one of the secretaries.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Way to go.

[Bill Simmons]

Way to go. Which is like. That could either age the worst or the best. No, no, I love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Big Kuna Burger award for best use of fruit or drink. I'll give you champagne on Spacey or the dim sum dumplings.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dim sum dumpling. The souvlaki.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. I mean, I was gonna say tequila.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tequila shots. Wedding Drinks and the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then the wedding drinks. The other one with Harrison.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the winner.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, Fair.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for Great shot, Gordo? It's the opening credits, right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna say the last shot that. That last shot when she is like. Because it is like a whole idea about the movie and it is otherwise, like, not a saccharine movie. But I think that last shot adds, like, a lot of ideas to what you're supposed to take away from it. And you also, like, think about it. You know, it's famous, right? It's the finest. It's just her and. And then it's everyone.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is the most famous shot in the movie, I think. Or her on the ferry. At some point, I would say there's a. After Baldwin cheats on her. And I think basically she spends a night on the ferry. There's a shot of her on the ferry with just like a fog machine behind it. And then you get this crazy. It's a helicopter shot over the water into the night skyline, but it's sped up so it looks like a drone.

[Bill Simmons]

It almost looks fake.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's cool.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Keep Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award. Best needle drop. I'll give you lady in Red by Krista Bird or the Pointer Sisters with. I'm so excited.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So Let the River Run is not eligible.

[Bill Simmons]

Not eligible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. It's obviously lady in Red.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's definitely lady in Red.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They milk it too. You know, they give you like a long, long intro and you're just like, oh, my God, Is this really.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're doing Lady Red the whole time and then they dance.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of those karaoke song that. It's almost weird if somebody picks it where they almost. I've never seen you loot. You're like, what's this guy doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

So you have to really commit to it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also, like, everyone has to have had.

[Joanna Robinson]

Aquila at that half ass. Did. Fun fact. Did you know that? I'm sure you did that. They first cut the opening to the Eagles Witchy Woman, and everyone liked it. And Mike Nichols told Carly Simon that. And she's like, how dare you?

[Bill Simmons]

I can't up their game.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That absolutely ruins the movie. Woman. That would be so bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Mike Nichols. Calder is like, we're gonna use you. We're gonna use it at the end, but we're gonna it really the movie up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Eagles Witchy. Ooh, Witchy Woman.

[Bill Simmons]

Good song. But not, not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not for that.

[Bill Simmons]

For that. Chess. Rock roll. Brock Lenders Award for best character Name? Can I submit? Doreen Dimucci.

[Joanna Robinson]

It wasn't me popping Doreen Damucci in our bed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ask is a good runner up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Doreen Ducci.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm so happy to give this out with Amanda Dobbins here. The Amanda Dobbins award for best piece of real estate. Yeah, this is one of the great categories.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, this is like one of my great career achievements that this career exists. So you would think that I would go for the townhouse. And it is a beautiful townhouse. However, when you see the exterior shots, it appears to be like on an avenue. I don't know whether that's Madison or Lex, but it looks a little busy. Busy? Yeah, the office.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Catherine Parker's office. With that, the view, I mean the full harbor. Like she has a corner. So she gets both Governor's island and the Statue of Liberty. I don't know how a 30 year old transferring down from Boston is getting.

[Joanna Robinson]

That office, but family money.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, well, still, it's really.

[Bill Simmons]

I knew that was gonna be the answer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

Amanda's still up because you have a flex category, which is a flex category.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I know what I'm gonna do. It is. I just have to read the full thing. It is the Vincent Chase award Ward for. Are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Which goes to literally every single person in this movie besides Tess. What are we doing here? Okay, Jack Trainor, like has had not had an idea in 10 years. He desperately needs it. But he's also not going to take the meeting at the work thing. He just wants to go drink with someone else instead. Then all he has to do is call someone in Memphis and be like, hey, come to.

[Joanna Robinson]

He takes a flight, he goes down. He glad hens.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure, that's true, but here's what I'm saying. That's like half a day's work. Meanwhile, Catherine gets promoted or transferred down from Boston immediately goes on a ski vacation. You know, also is not bringing any ideas to the table. As far as I can tell everyone else, all of the Trask not sold.

[Bill Simmons]

On any of the trash people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're just like, he's not gonna do that. And then they get a phone call.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's such a good scene.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like no one has ideas. No one's doing anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Besides like Nora Dunn is trying to do things, but her printer's not working.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And also her party ideas are bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

They are bad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I just. I mean, I guess mergers and acquisitions I'm not sure if they're good at their jobs.

[Bill Simmons]

Arbitrage isn't doing well.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Certainly not.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a good point on Jack. Yeah, I expected more from Harvard, class of 1970. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jack should have asked one question.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, that ruins the premise of the movie, but, like, one question of like, hey, has anyone heard of Tess? Yeah, McGill. Have you worked with her before? Should I with her?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, should the fact that I'm sort of in a relationship with her colleague have, you know, any impact, any bearing going on here?

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe I shouldn't, Jack, be like, tess, where'd you go to college? Where'd you go to business school? Where are you from?

[Joanna Robinson]

School of hard knocks. School of life.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's a good one, Amanda.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

I have the. I don't know if I put this in the rundown for you all, but the Tom Cruise which end do I light? Award for terrible on screen smoking goes to Sigourney in the office. Doesn't actually put the cigarette in her mouth. Does the classic. The character supposed to be smoking does one of these. But when you see, like, there's no.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's an extra lift.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's almost like she was so bad at it that they tried to cut it out, but they didn't have anything else for that one scene because she only is smoking in that one scene and they barely show it.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It might also be a character decision where they're like, she. No, she would not be a smart. But it seems like she's just not good at it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not what they do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's okay. She's good at other things.

[Bill Simmons]

The Butcher's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think there is one.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Doreen.

[Bill Simmons]

Doreen Dimucci just having sex without Baldwin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Showing up at that party Reaction. I don't know if, like, you're supposed to be looking at her face in emotional.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Baldwin poses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no, no, no. Once they catch her in the bedroom, like, her fake crying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As she is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was Alec Baldwin.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not believable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, shots, fire.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a really good candidate. I don't get mad until I finish what I say here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Oh, you. It's too late. It's not too late to not do it.

[Bill Simmons]

No, don't get mad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this the one where you were gleefully saying earlier you are excited to piss us off about.

[Bill Simmons]

No, this is an absolutely absurd premise for a movie. Movie. It's absurd.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so is Die Hard.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I said I. You gotta let me finish.

[Joanna Robinson]

Huh?

[Bill Simmons]

And they pulled it off, and it works.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It is a 9. I have it as a 9.6 out of 10 on the no way scale that Tess is able. Her boss goes away, and she's just able to pull off, like, basically a merger with Trask, and she doesn't have an office, and. And she's just in her office and nobody else in the. I mean, if you actually, like, really look at this. It's absurd. Oh, wow. Oh, it's a set move.

[Joanna Robinson]

Swayze disagrees.

[Craig]

Do we want to get that?

[Bill Simmons]

Nah, we'll fix it later. I'm on a heater. Okay, look, most movies are absurd. Pretty Woman's absurd. Most movies that we love are absurd. I just want to point out that this movie fundamentally is absolutely absurd. That she pulls this off and then they're like, swayze is furious.

[Craig]

This is what your. Your take did to the studio.

[Bill Simmons]

My take? Swayze, I think we leave that anyway.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I agree with you, sir. It aligns with my point that were anyone good at their job. Job, then maybe they would notice what's going on here.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, first of all, it doesn't matter.

[Bill Simmons]

She's fired immediately. They're like, wait, you. You're. You're a secretary and you just arranged this merger and then we caught you, like, pack your bag.

[Craig]

How does nobody in the office leak it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, right.

[Craig]

Everybody is seeing her pretend for two weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

No one told the so good. You actually just buy into it. It's like. But Pretty Woman's the same way where you're like. Like, yeah, I think. I think this would happen. He would fall in love with this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hooker on Hollywood percent matters. If the premise for a movie is absurd. If the. If they pull human emotion is Works. Yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. What's age the worst? I have a lot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

This is a good one. You'd still be able to do your job in 2025 with a broken leg.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, remote work.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Remote work is like. She's fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Remote work ruins this movie. LinkedIn.

[Bill Simmons]

She's texting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think she could be making phone calls and having ideas. But if she's like a hard doctor.

[Craig]

Also, why can't you fly home with a broken leg?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's because she's boning a doctor.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You gotta be thankful for our medical innovations. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

I have.

[Craig]

1988. You couldn't fly under the.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was hard. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I have just about everyone's hair except Harrison Ford.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably nine out of ten hairdos. And even duchovny how women were treated in the workplace is that it has not aged well. Someone reading Motor Trend magazine in bed. I'm positive that doesn't happen anymore.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was the Lamborghini edition. Motor Trend magazine. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sad shots of the Staten island fairy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hasn'T aged well.

[Bill Simmons]

No, just. I don't know fairies like just.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had a. I had a colleague who like an editor at Vanity Fair and he used to say that he took this out island fairy in and he would talk about how he could like hear Carly Simon.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like playing in his head when the ferry would come in.

[Bill Simmons]

Alec Baldwin. Whatever look he has at this point in his career. So is he handsome in 1988? What's your relationship with him? Because to me he looks like he'd be playing on the Pittsburgh Penguins.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He does, but it's like a.

[Bill Simmons]

He looks like a hockey player.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it's like it's a styling issue. The hair and the way that the amount of hair gold shown to us. But in that the wedding scene like where he's in the tusks.

[Bill Simmons]

You're going handsome.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean you see his face when he's clean shaven. I'm like this is a very handsome man.

[Bill Simmons]

You know he looks at all three of his brothers at the same time. And then he grew out of it it and start to look like Al Baldwin.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he's grease ball handsome.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where do you stand on test not wiping the hot dog crumb on off of Jack's mouth? Because it drives me crazy when I watch this movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Get tzatziki.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever it is. Whatever the white.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a nice touch.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I really like that it's there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But that she doesn't fix it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're not ready for that yet. They're not there. You know.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you make?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can't let her guard down yet.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you make of Jack not washing his hands after he uses the restroom and then he does like one of these with his finger in his mouth at the wedding.

[Bill Simmons]

Wr.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't like that at all. What do you. Yanny, what stage the worst other than everything we cover.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, Joe alluded to some of this but sleeping together before you close the deal. I don't. It's like just you know, girl, boss wise that's not what we would be doing anymore. You gotta wait.

[Joanna Robinson]

But a kiss so good you drop your briefcase.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's Fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is it fine? I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I don't like they're consenting adults. I don't hate that. I just like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's also a little bit like I always feel this way when like Travis Kelsey is reported to have like stayed at Taylor Swift's house the night before. Like a game. I'm like, you guys have a big meeting the next day, like eyes on the ball. You know what I'm saying?

[Bill Simmons]

She just has high standards.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The other thing I have is just like the concept of hard copies, of making records of things like whether the dictaphone or the day planner. Like great movie plot devices, but just really comes down to bite everyone in the ass. You're just doing this all on your phone where no one else has access.

[Joanna Robinson]

Katherine never knows.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. You don't do the cloud. None of this happens. Happens.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. It's true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Never do the cloud.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I really think he could have just left her dress on. That's all I'm saying. He was. He carried her up the stairs and that's great, but he had no need to take her dress.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're right.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we've solved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Ruffalo hand. Ruben Partridge overacting word. Clearly Kevin Spacey. I mean, he just.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's an arbitrage all time dial up.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for a flex, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. I contemplated the Jamie Lee Curtis unnecessary nudity award for the topless vacuuming, but it's such a.

[Craig]

That was mine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's okay. I. I mean it's. And apparently was Melanie Griffith's idea.

[Craig]

Oh, I was gonna ask about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Apparently she was like, this is what I would do. And Randigl's like, okay.

[Craig]

Just right out of the bender.

[Bill Simmons]

Mel Griffith was lit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. She's just like, I wouldn't put a shirt on. He's like, sounds great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, you do get overheated it. You know, she's really going for the vacuuming.

[Craig]

Why is she.

[Joanna Robinson]

No reason.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that's just to feel glamorous, you know, sometimes you need it.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I am going to get. Actually, my actual word is the okay. Exact moment when the movie goes up a notch and it's at 36 minutes and four seconds when Harrison Ford aims his lopsided smile at Melly Griffith's legs and enters the story. That's it. 36 minutes, 4 seconds in, nice tight close up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, he looks great.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he just gives the little lopsided Harrison Ford's and We're off to the races.

[Bill Simmons]

I like it. The CR Thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. Amanda gave hers. What do you have?

[Joanna Robinson]

I had this. Should have won best picture of a Raymond.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not even sure that's a hot take.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great. That's my type of take.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I think you're right. I. I really worked on this one. I feel like I've done this before.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm just getting my posture ready.

[Bill Simmons]

The Pointer Sisters. I'm so excited. Is secretly the most important pop culture song of all time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

It's in National Lampoon's Vacation in a pivotal Christie Brinkley scene. It's in Beverly Hills Cop. It's in. We covered this in the Miami Vice Calderones revenge episode. The only TV show we've ever done. The rewatchable is me and cr. It is an absolutely crucial point in this Miami Vice episode. That's one of the most important episodes of the 80s.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's in the second best. The NBA had these. It's fantastic commercials that they ran that really made the league more likable. And the best one ever was one on one with hall notes where they would just show all these slow motion. The second best one ever was. I'm so excited with Pointer Sisters.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was also the 80s.

[Bill Simmons]

80S.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So my question is, is Working Girl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you. Are you going to build their bridge to our generation?

[Joanna Robinson]

Most important song of all time. Of that decade.

[Bill Simmons]

I said pop culture.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

For the. For the 20th century. I'll go there. Because it's hot as take. Because you have Working Girl and poor and.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And everything culminates in the Saved by the Bell caffeine pills.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

This is. This is a 10 year run.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's 10 years.

[Bill Simmons]

It's 10 years of this. Goes into major movies, major TV shows and the NBA and Elizabeth Berkeley six times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a great take.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good casting. What ifs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

At one point, this movie was supposed to be directed by Jim Bridges starring Demi Moore. Moore. Absolutely not Demi Moore. If she's Jewels. Insane. Almost fire. Like. I'm not saying better than Melanie Griffith. I'm just saying I'm not. Not giving it a chance. Raspy.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's been out the night before.

[Bill Simmons]

Little puffy face.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can see it.

[Bill Simmons]

I could see.

[Joanna Robinson]

But that version was Amanda's horror.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, very different.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am horrible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it's hard for me to imagine anyone but Melanie Griffith. But also Demi Moore, I've realized, is sort of like the generational divide for me. Like, I've seen all the movies. They were handed down to me, but I was not conscious. Like Demi Moore, like the big star.

[Bill Simmons]

It would be Jules from St. Elmo's Fire, Demi Moore.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And so I was learning about it all after the fact. And I would say, like, her biggest celebrity moment to me is still the Vanity Fair.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're later. And yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I just. I don't always, like, get it, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

So the thing. The reason I think it would have worked is because 80s Demi Moore, who was battling a lot of the same stuff Griffith was, I think brings some baggage into it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you also have a scene where she's alone in a room with just a fan on her as she is in St. Elmo's 5 with all the windows open?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I would.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Molly Ringwald apparently auditioned, was deemed too young. I mean, they auditioned everybody, including. They thought about Michelle Pfeiffer and Madonna. Scott Rudin was running Fox, which I don't think I knew, and was really pushing for Shelley Long, who was red hot on Cheers. They squash that. Lorraine Bracco wrote in her memoir that she thought she nailed the audition and didn't get it. That was mildly interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would love Lorraine Bracco in this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

She does Someone Watch Over Me. Right around the same time Nichols finally said, fuck it, I'm dropping out if we don't hire Melanie Griffith. So they do the casting credits thing. Then there's this whole weird. Lawrence Kasdan wanted to. He was testing that accidental Taurus part. Geena Davis and Melanie Griffith are both for the part. And Scott Rudin says if she tests for another movie, she's out for Working Girl. And this executive producer Carlisle tells Melanie Griffith, whoever plays Muriel, an accidental tourist, could win the Academy Award. And whoever does Working Girl will be a star. This is in the oral history from 30 years later. And then she says, I want to be a star. Goes for Working Girl. And then at the Academy Awards, for whatever reason, Melanie Griffith hands the Oscar to Geena Davis. She's the one presenting it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Accidental Charge.

[Bill Simmons]

For the other part, she didn't go for.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I would just say that Geena Davis was both an Oscar winner and a star. So that wasn't the top tier advice.

[Bill Simmons]

You're talking to somebody who bought Jeannie Davis stock as early as it could go. She was just buried in Fletch. We argued about this on Fletch. And it was the maddest CRs ever been on a movie. Watch that. Geena Davis should have been the lead in Fletch, not Dana Will or Nicholson. And Ciara got really mad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anyway, can we. Can I just add a few more casting what ifs?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because I couldn't tell how much was 100% true, but go.

[Joanna Robinson]

I sort of cross checked that THR thing that you pulled from. And also the Nichols biography. Whoopi Goldberg was someone they were considering because Nichols did her, like, stand up show. Goldie Hawn.

[Bill Simmons]

Too old.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Was she too old at that point?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, she's too old at that point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

She did Private Benjamin, 1980.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

She's like in her 40s at that point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Meg Ryan.

[Bill Simmons]

Meg Ryan, maybe. I don't know if she could have pulled off the accent and the baggage.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Part and not the. The sex appeal in the same way. This movie has a lot of sex in it for a romantic comedy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Share.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Thanks for coming.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you not. You're not a moonstruck person?

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't like moonstruck? Just share.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Not for this.

[Bill Simmons]

Not for.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, like, I agree with you.

[Bill Simmons]

She brings too much share. She still share.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was, like, one of the most.

[Bill Simmons]

Famous people of the 70s.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love moonstruck.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I love moonstruck mermaids. Incredibly important.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but the part.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You guys, theater.

[Bill Simmons]

When I was like, five, Cher was, like, incredibly famous in the 80s.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's too famous.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I completely agree with you for this role.

[Bill Simmons]

I was a big Sonny and Cher guy. I was a kid.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I thought that that was a reaction to Moonstruck, and I was a little concerned.

[Bill Simmons]

No, Moonstruck's good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wonderful. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I just wouldn't buy her as test.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Agree.

[Bill Simmons]

Best. That guy Oliver Platt counts, according to Craig's rule that just because we call him Oliver Platt, that doesn't mean anyone under 35 knows who Oliver Platt is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's not the winner of this. It's either the bad guy from Beverly Hills Cop 3 who's one of the two people Tras.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right, right.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even know what that guy's name is, but I'm like, hey, it's the bad guy 3. Or that guy who worked for the evil law firm in Philadelphia and had second thoughts about maybe ratting out Jason Robarts. And then on the stand, it kind of. Kind of, kind of is on this. He's just in the movie. And I was like, that guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, that guy.

[Bill Simmons]

So I almost feel like that makes him the winner because I don't even remember what part he played in this movie. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about Caroline Aaron, who plays Dr. Marsha Fieldstone in Sleepless in Seattle and is also the mom on the Marvelous Mrs. Ma.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a really, really good one. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Dan Waiter's a word. Joan Cusack eligible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think she's in it that way. She's for 12 minutes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Joan Cusack would be a classic. Dion winners. May I ask if Carly Simon is eligible?

[Bill Simmons]

Not eligible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about Olympia Duak?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I thought I was doing something eligible. She's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Olympia Duak is spacey. Robert Easton, who plays Armister, who is the like. Who is the guy in the deal with the like? Colonel Sanders has like one scene and he's just like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like Metro's owner.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Metro's owner. Yeah. The members.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the answer is probably Nora Dun.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's very good. She's very frightening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That. She was also really good at that specific kind of part.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Recasting couch. Director City. I. What's her name? Denucci. What's her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What's that do? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Could we have gotten. Could we have snuck like a young Marisa to in that part or could we got like an actual famous actress? Yeah. Somebody a little like, wow. That she played Doreen DiMucci.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Half ass in her research. We did a lot of these, but my favorites. Melanie Griffith revealed in a 2017 interview that she repeatedly made passes at Alec Baldwin. And he said, no, thanks, and it hurt her feelings, but I think he thought she was a little hot mess express.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he was on like, I know Don's just waiting in the wings to remarry you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No question. There's a Bob's Burgers episode about this and Die Hard. That's apparently a famous Bob Burgers episode. My kids used to love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

You mentioned the Mike Nichols thing. And then the lobby of seven World Trade Centers in this, too. So it's in this multiple times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I read you an excerpt from the New York Times 1989, written by Maureen Dowd?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, boy.

[Joanna Robinson]

George Bush ended his first week as president by having some friends over to the family quarter of the White House on Friday night for beef piece, whatever that is, and a screening of the movie Working Girl. He warned his guests, a mix of prominent Democrats and Republicans, that he had heard that the film about a Wall Street Cinderella had some, quote, dirty parts, so they had better watch out.

[Bill Simmons]

Ooh, meat pie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Beef pie. George H.W. bush, his first week as president, he said, let's Watch Working Girl.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Working girl. Aaron.

[Amanda Dobbins]

George H.W. bush. Say the words dirty parts out loud. Is not also be pie. Really happy to have either.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. Apex Mountain. I'm gonna say yes for Melanie Griffith.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I agree. It really.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Carly Simon.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It goes down very downhill very quickly from here. And like, I didn't really remember because.

[Bill Simmons]

The 90s were.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's really bad.

[Bill Simmons]

90S are bad for her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I really like Pacific Heights.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, me too.

[Bill Simmons]

But you know Harrison Ford. No, no. I think there's a Sigourney Weaver case. She's nominated in two categories at the same time. It's two years after Aliens. It just feels like she never had more juice than she did in 1988. It's a big. She's about to Ghostbusters too. She's probably the most bankable actress.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Don't you think that, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I would say that's right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right before it has to be like.

[Bill Simmons]

It'S somewhere in there. Somewhere. From Aliens to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's near.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's near. It's in the rain. Change.

[Bill Simmons]

Female struggling in the workplace movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, those are evergreen. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We're all just all doing our best every day. Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

This isn't the best one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's one. It's one of my favorites. I mean, like, it. Broadcast News attraction.

[Bill Simmons]

Broadcast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And they're all in the same.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what the answer is? Devil Wears Prada. Because that's the best movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can you believe they're making a sequel? I, I, I'm, I'm beside myself with joy.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say beside myself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no, no, no. I don't care. That's like, fine. All the nerds have gotten us, no offense, have gotten all of their movies forever. Like, give me all of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, do you want like nine Devil wars products?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would watch a TV show. I would watch a novel. I would watch.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a really important novels.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I've read the original.

[Joanna Robinson]

But are they getting Tucci?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are they getting blunt? Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know about blunt, but I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Hathaway looks incredible these days.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does.

[Bill Simmons]

She's a great, great job.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's got a brand new face. Looks great.

[Bill Simmons]

Great job by her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My daughter.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think they're just new eyebrows.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the whole.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My kids, who don't consume my content at all and actively disparage me at all times. My daughter does like the rewatchables and listens to it. And she thinks The Devil Wears Prada 1 is one of the best podcasts ever recorded.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Zoe, thank you so much.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I do think Amanda was on that podcast.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was my.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was me, Juliet and Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

It was one of the first rewatch where we were like, this is probably where the show is going.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was freaking out a little. I do think it was my professional peak. But, like. And this is pretty close, you know, in terms of things I've worked hard for my whole life.

[Bill Simmons]

We did that. It was in the first year. I'm looking up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it was in your. It was in the office on the couches.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we did that for. I'm going to say within the first.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope it's okay for me to say that. Amanda said, oh, no, we did that later. This is more important. Important than. This is more important than giving birth to your children. This podcast episode.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I said, more fun.

[Amanda Dobbins]

More fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. More enjoyable.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Experience. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know Mike Nichols, Apex Mountain? No.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Graduate.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I think so. He wins the Oscar.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, he made the Graduate.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty good when finding movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

60S Carly Simon. I'm gonna say no.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't think so?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. She was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're so vain as the whole thing.

[Bill Simmons]

She was killing it in the 70s. You're so vain was like, probably one of the biggest single songs of the 70s. A female artist. Right. And also, like, led to 50 years of. Who is she talking about in the same dialogue.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fair.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The Staten Island Ferry.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I had that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was mine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is. It is totally the Apex Mountain for.

[Bill Simmons]

It has to be. Right. Whatever got better for the ferry.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

My son is really into transportation, so I was like, how will I show him? Staten Island Ferry Just pulled up. Let the river Run. Watched it wrapped.

[Bill Simmons]

Colin Jost and Pete Davidson bought it, apparently.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. But they don't know what to do with it.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's not Apex Man. Bony ass masses just being. Being used repeatedly as a disparaging term.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure. Memorable and sleazoid. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. That's probably good.

[Craig]

80S hair.

[Bill Simmons]

80S hair in a movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's probably in like a non. Because I think there's music videos, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Think that do it better.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Like White Snake music videos and like Mad Max stuff like that. But in terms of like a. A less extreme version. I think you might have something there. You know, like, this is just supposed to look normal in a music video. You're going for something extreme.

[Bill Simmons]

I have to think about it more. I feel like there's some 85 range high school movies that are probably 86.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Range, but it kind of has become the shorthand for it. Like maybe Apex Mountain for shoulder pads.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also Cusack's eye makeup.

[Craig]

Yeah. You can't overstate how much these people look like aliens. Every 15 minutes, Liz and I were.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, man, the hair, but the clothes are back.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And, like, working girl is the reference. And all the copy of, like, get. You know, get your inner. You know, whatever on with this. This suit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Unleash youh Inner Characters.

[Bill Simmons]

Give a Flex category.

[Craig]

I was gonna. I was gonna do the vacuuming naked. I kind of. I. I'll do a. Like, a pseudo hot take. I think Jack. Is it Jack Trainor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I think he's a little creepy in the beginning of this film. And I know that everyone's in on it. And I like Harrison Ford. I like the character. Eventually, I feel like they were still figuring it out. The first scene, it's like, cheating on his girlfriend. I guess he wanted to get out, but, like, the. The backtack. Double shot of tequila.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't say his name.

[Craig]

Doesn't say his name. Takes her home, takes the dress off. And then the next day is like, dinner and a movie. I'm like, this guy's coming on a little hot.

[Joanna Robinson]

You forgot about. He did buy her a briefcase, though.

[Craig]

Also weird. Yeah, super weird. A gift. The next morning is, like, huge red flag.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As always, the timelines are an issue here because they say I love you within four days.

[Bill Simmons]

I had that in Picket Nits, that bomb is coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love you. So fast out of.

[Amanda Dobbins]

For sure. But, like, sometimes, you know, he is.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, Amanda and Zach knew right away.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's true. He is a pretty sleazy. He's supposed to be a sleazy Wall.

[Craig]

Street guy, but he starts as sleazy, and then by halfway into the movie, he's, like, dopey.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think it's called. It's called character shape.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I really think that he had kept her dress on. I can defend almost all of it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm. I'm with Bill's mom on this.

[Bill Simmons]

Not saying your name is weird, are you, Jack? No. I don't know who Jack is.

[Craig]

He, like, whispers the. The double shot to the bartender.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that part is a little weird.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, not great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then again, he didn't know about the milligrams, so, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that is. He did whisper double shot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This man was a menace.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sex pest. Jack Trainor.

[Bill Simmons]

Cruiser. Ham. Hanks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Hanks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is. Hanks.

[Bill Simmons]

It has to be Hanks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. The height thing that you mentioned earlier. But Cruz is just too powerful.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's ahead at this point? Craig Hanks is out of like three or four. Scorsese or Spielberg.

[Joanna Robinson]

Marty.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Marty. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Really? I had Spielberg.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, he did it with Wall Street.

[Bill Simmons]

Different movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's way more of the last shot of the film. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would watch parties.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It would be great.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would be wonderful.

[Bill Simmons]

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Probably Spacey.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, I was going to say Oliver.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oliver Platt.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good call.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is his scent of a woman.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Vibe picking knits that we haven't done yet.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Tess wears all white to the wedding. That's just rude. You know, even I know that if she's trying to blend in, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I mean, how does she know what the dress code is? Also because she's wearing like sort of a business. Well, it's more like a daytime tiki wedding.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A mother of the bride type.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's wearing something that Jack conceivably thinks they could just be going to a lunch for and they're going to the wedding of like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's wearing black tie. It's. He's not wearing a tuxedo. But I like the tie is a very dark color, which would suggest that even though he thought he was going to a three o' clock lunch, he was also wearing black tie, which is confused.

[Bill Simmons]

I have. Why didn't anyone wonder why Tess was in her boss's office so much?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

As number one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I can buy two days in. It's like, what's going on with here's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's what I can buy. I can buy the boss is not like paying enough attention to notice. And I can buy the secretary is covering for her.

[Bill Simmons]

But why is the door always closed?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's watering the plants.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's. It's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

People are talking by Wednesday. What kind of broken leg did Sigourney have where she. She's good. In three weeks, she's bed goes from bedridden to just like. She just has a cane hobbing around.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're the. You're the sports expert.

[Bill Simmons]

I. It's one or the other. It's like if you're bedridden for three weeks, you're coming out of there and you have like one of those like huge brace.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like a walking thing. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did they have those brace things yet in the 80s? Again, our.

[Joanna Robinson]

Our men are scientists.

[Bill Simmons]

Was it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Were we just killing people when they broke their legs at that point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Giant plaster. But I, like, I don't remember, you know, when, like, kids breaking their arms or legs. I don't remember, like, the flexi casts.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It went from a broken leg to a torn mcl.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, she just had the cane at the end. Which was like when Jack shows up to her apartment when. When Melanie Griffith is hiding in the closet and he's, like, trying not to get, like, drawn into her and he's just like, oh, your cast. And, like, knocks on it. He's like, whoa. Yeah, look at that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure is broken.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Catherine would just be suing everybody right away at the end of this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't. I mean, I.

[Joanna Robinson]

We don't know if she gets fired even.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, Oren Trust says that he's gonna make sure she gets fired, which, once.

[Joanna Robinson]

Again, why am I getting fired?

[Bill Simmons]

My secretary pretended to be me for four months. What did I do wrong?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, maybe in the 80s he could get her fired, but I do think.

[Bill Simmons]

She was taking credit for my assistant.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, she's gonna get her bonus ass out of his sight, but I don't know that he still.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, my impression of mergers and acquisitions in the 80s.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is not that you could just transfer down from Boston and immediately go on vacation.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So. And listen, I believe in vacation and work, life balance and all that, but, like, she's just very absent, so I don't do that.

[Joanna Robinson]

How long was Tess working for her before she went on vacation?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like two days. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Enough. Enough to get the dim sum party?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I feel like it might have been.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A couple weeks, but yeah. Oh, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe 10 days.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. She might have been like a couple weeks on the job. And she's like, I already had this ski vacation planned.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. I guess, but do you not.

[Craig]

Think it's weird that she was expecting. Catherine was expecting to be proposed to on this trip?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Craig]

Her boyfriend bails.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Craig]

And she just still goes. It is skiing alone.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, that's. That's. Yeah, that's a.

[Bill Simmons]

It feels like it's going to be the first of three or four marriages for her.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also feel like she had sex with her Dr. Ye abs.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They just.

[Craig]

You wouldn't reschedule the trip with your fiance to Germany. You would you go on it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I guess he makes it seem.

[Bill Simmons]

Like now Amanda's on defense.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, Amanda scrambling now, she's like, wait.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guys, she knew so many people there. Like, it's not like she was going to go and be alone. She knew, like, the guy who ran the hotel. And then her hotel room was just like the biggest party room.

[Craig]

It just feels like if Amanda was like, I think Zach and I are going to get engaged in church, Germany. And then Zach's like, I can't go. I have work. I don't think she's getting on the plane and spending the money for that vacation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If I had the money, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Catherine has so much money.

[Bill Simmons]

That it just matters. My biggest nitpick we mentioned earlier, and I. I don't think we hit it hard enough. I don't understand the Alec Baldwin having sex with Dominic Denucci, whatever her name was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Doreen. Doreen's Doreen.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't understand. In the scene, you don't think he.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would cheat on no class life.

[Bill Simmons]

Life was different in the 80s. I'm not here to judge. Things happen. Maybe that maybe adultery was a little more common. I don't understand.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't think a guy reading Motor Trend who gets his girlfriend trashy lingerie on her birthday.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is around on her?

[Bill Simmons]

It's like he doesn't think she's coming home. He's sitting in his bed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. She has class.

[Joanna Robinson]

She has class.

[Bill Simmons]

She walks in. It's just. And then. And then he thinks it's gonna be fine. Three days later and he's still in the house.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not only that, but Jerry Zusak thinks it's gonna be fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I just have some issues. I just tell, like, if that was my wife walking in 10 years later, that's it. Like, she's moving out. It's not even a question of.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The issue is at the party when he is. You know, it's like, are we still.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there still something here? Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then he proposes in front of everyone, which, like, just don't do it after.

[Bill Simmons]

The adults are.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's insane. And then she doesn't just lie. Just lie, you know? I mean, that doesn't make for a good movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I liked maybe. I think maybe is fair enough.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a good movie.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he's mad. He's like, you embarrassed me back there. It's like you. You were just getting rid in our bed by the dumb.

[Joanna Robinson]

I genuinely believe that those are the gender politics of that, like, culture at that time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're right.

[Craig]

Wouldn't the whole friend group know that he cheated on her? And they're all like, say, yes, this would be bigger.

[Joanna Robinson]

But they're like, no, I don't. I disagree.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, even when Denise is there, Joan Cusack brings her stuff to the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Office and she's like, throw him a bo. Him. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This isn't like you.

[Bill Simmons]

This is just the 80s.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's a cultural thing. It's just sort of like.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, I couldn't get that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guys will be guys, boys being boys.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Baldwin will be Baldwin.

[Craig]

The sneaky best scene in the movie is in that moment in the bar when they meet. When Melanie Griffith and Baldwin kind of meet for the first time. And they're just sitting at the corner of the bar. He's slamming scotch and he's like, I got the boat loan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And she's like, oh, my God, congrats.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he brings up the boat again at the wedding. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Dory is working the phone.

[Craig]

The boat loan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What does he do? Like, so is it like boat tours? It's like, what is. He's booked for three weeks.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like the arbitrage of boats.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll never understand it, honestly. They should have made him like, high school hockey coach or something. He should have been in high school.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anywhere near high school kids.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, baseball, whatever.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he should be like a used car salesman. That's Nick's Energy.

[Bill Simmons]

Sequel Prequel. Prestige. Tv. All black cast are untouchable. This is untouchable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Untouchable.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Even though.

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess they made it a TV show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

TV show. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson. No Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in the Firm. I was thinking, I'm not going to do Chris's Wilford Brimley, but heartbreak. It would be funny if, like, bringing the photos of. To Catherine. Say, Catherine, here's your fiance. Oral and whatnot. And he's just doing the whole. Showing the photos.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just want to ask her who gets it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, Carly 7 did get one, so.

[Bill Simmons]

I really don't think the right one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Putting enough respect on Joan Cusack and supporting.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

$6,000 and it's not even lea.

[Bill Simmons]

I do like the Madonna thing where she's like, I sing and dance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Doesn't make me Madonna. Like, I think this is what a supporting as actress Oscar should be. Yeah. Is just like, type of part that.

[Bill Simmons]

Normally wins a nomination.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not necessarily true. I just think that, like, you know, your Mira Serinos and your Marissa Tomes, you know, like, it's true.

[Bill Simmons]

I can See that in the movie. Enough, though. I don't know. I. I thought if you're gonna take some of the spots that got taken, like Susan Saran and Bull Durham, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If, like, that is true, that she's. She's very good in that.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you say for this Melanie Griffith?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. I'm open to it.

[Bill Simmons]

But I still think Glenn Close should have won that year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Carly Simon's fine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. It's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

Romcom, gospel. I'm here for it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably unanswerable questions. I have three. Do you guys have any?

[Joanna Robinson]

I have one.

[Bill Simmons]

Go ahead.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What do the lyrics of Let the River Run mean?

[Joanna Robinson]

The New Jersey.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I mean, I understand what that means, but let me read it.

[Bill Simmons]

Which river are we talking about?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shaking. It's there for the taking. Let the river run.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're coming to the edge. Running out of water.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Your eyes are the color of blue that you've only never seen in the eyes of your lover or whatever. Okay. The sky is the color of blue. Okay. So they're like. They're going somewhere. They're building a city.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it ties back into your whole, like, immigrant.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I think that's right. But I'm just saying it's not, like, the most evocative poetry that I have ever read.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it a New York river or just a.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Just the river Energy. It's the Hudson River. Energetic river.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the Hudson River.

[Bill Simmons]

So the answer. Yeah, I have an answer. There's just an incredible amount of cocaine going on the 80s. And at some point at 5 in the morning, these lyrics made a ton of sense and they just kind of ran with it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Trembling, shaking. Oh, my heart is aching. Making is an accurate representation of what's happening.

[Bill Simmons]

5, 30 in the morning. What do you have, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, it's not what did Jack ever see in Catherine Parker? Because it's Sigourney Weaver. But how did that ever progress beyond just like, we have sex a couple times into corporate.

[Bill Simmons]

Corporate arrangement.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, yeah, I think it's sort of like social business climbing.

[Joanna Robinson]

It just reflects poorly on him. It underlines Craig's point that maybe Jack Cranor is not the best guy we've ever.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's a sleazoid, too, until he's not.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's like if Sean was single and he just started dating, like the CEO's daughter of Letterboxd. It's like, I don't trust Sean's intentions. What's he up to?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Marriage.

[Joanna Robinson]

Marriage is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Business contract.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way. I was going to make a big deal about starting a letterbox. Like the. Because I refused to do it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And start it. And then all the movies would be completely fucking weird.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Yeah, Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like Cinemax movies from the 90s. And just every choice would be weird. And people like, what's going on with that guy? No movie would be good. That's been good about it. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why is this a what if? Why aren't you doing this already?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did start a letterboxd profile, and then I don't use it because it's just, like, way too much homework. But my. It's not a picture of me, obviously, because, like, what are we doing? It is a picture of me.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that getting you coffee?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, it's Melanie Griffith in the red glasses from Working Girl is. Thank you. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Here are my three.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also have a letter box I don't use.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's just like, I don't know. Log. Listen. You know, I got a life.

[Bill Simmons]

One of these is going to make you both mad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Dim some dumplings at an office party. Mm, no.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it's the steam, I think. No, not work.

[Joanna Robinson]

You just can't. They're not past you like a table.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You need to dip them now. I have sauce. I'm dripping sauce on my shirt. I have bad breath. I'm getting. What about one of the little teeth?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, the spoon and the dumplings.

[Bill Simmons]

With the sauce and then you're flat. No. And not a lot of people like dumplings.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's your badge.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's your number one top tier party food.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, look, there's a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Dim sum dumpling. You want pastor d' oeuvres to be hit cheese.

[Joanna Robinson]

You want some, like, salmon and creme crush on some puff pastry? Is that what you're looking for?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Best one I ever had was coconut shrimp. Shrimp at my friend Tim and Jen's.

[Bill Simmons]

Coconut shrimp's good. Not everyone needs shrimp. I mean, it's hard. You're never gonna lay the pigs in. The blanket. Is always good.

[Joanna Robinson]

If we had.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That was my one request.

[Joanna Robinson]

Swedish meatballs of the wedding plate at a Vanny Fair Oscar party.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to hold the burger, though.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's also so big. A slider is better.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes, I do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Went to a wedding recently with little mini lobster rolls. Like an inch big on. On pretzel rolls.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think you can do dumplings, just not hot piping. Freshly steamed ones.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That are dripping. Craig, what are your thoughts?

[Craig]

That's fair. I think you could do a pot sticker.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Small pot sticker.

[Joanna Robinson]

You get away. Pot sticker. Way more sense.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your favorite party order?

[Craig]

Pigs in a blanket.

[Bill Simmons]

Undefeated Pigs in a blanket.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's true. It's true.

[Bill Simmons]

All guys, you're. You're getting 50% of the room immediately, plus maybe 25% of the rest of the room. So you're batting 75.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pigs in BL are good for people who, like, are never going to eat a hot dog, but they kind of miss eating a hot dog and they're like, oh, I can have a pigment blanket.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's some. Some split up buffalo chicken finger stuff you could do with, like, the toothpicks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where it's like, you could dip it. Not dip it. Maybe there's some blue cheese.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, The Chick fil a party platter is the Amanda Dobbins signature. Yeah. You were there. You were there. You can come next year. Everyone's invited. Holiday party.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, I was in awe.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was in awe. It was one of the smartest party things I've ever seen.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, and it's because when growing up in Atlanta, you go to a boring holiday party Chick fil a party, super easy to eat.

[Bill Simmons]

They kept coming out. People were getting a little drunker and a little drunker. And then all of a sudden you just see, like, four guys, like, run it. Checked all the bunnies, boxes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's, it's, it's undefeated.

[Bill Simmons]

There's probably none left at the end of the night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, my second unanswerable question. Does Harrison Ford ever actually have sex in movies? Just Presumed Innocent. I couldn't think of even another movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where he has sex.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't though. It's like, a lot of, like, kissing.

[Joanna Robinson]

But no. Doesn't he have sex with, like, what are we defining?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Does he actually have sex in a movie? You know, or sort of. Not to Mallory, this out witness, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of, like, long longing and lusting. But.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So are you talking about, like, is he disrobed in the bed?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a very intentional choice from the moment he was Han Solo on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

To be like, I'm not. There's a line like, I'm not going to be in Fatal Attraction. Fucking Glenn Close against Kitchen Suit. There's a line.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm not fair, but frantic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Presumed Innocent.

[Bill Simmons]

That's it. That was the only way he said. Yeah. That's the only time where he really gets it on with somebody. Other than that, not really.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like. So you're just talking about, like, sex Scenes?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Like Michael Douglas.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Not only have sex scenes, but he'll.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like kiss balls Michael Douglas made his career on, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can you. The first Michael Douglas movie I ever saw was American President, and then I went backwards. Can you imagine?

[Bill Simmons]

I still like Harrison Ford's never going to be the cop in Basic Instinct, I guess, is my point. All right. I think it was an intentional choice. All right. This is probably the one that makes you mad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably. Unanswerable questions is the category.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Are we. Are we sure Tess isn't the villain of this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You should play it that way.

[Bill Simmons]

Her boss's boyfriend and job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, rebuttal.

[Craig]

And.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the boyfriend was gonna leave her anyway. The boyfriend's gonna. Just because her feelings are hurt. No, she was stealing her idea and passing it off the show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She worked for it, but she's lying.

[Joanna Robinson]

To her about it. She's like, nice idea.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

She's talking it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, Bill, this is good information.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm talking it out. I'm talking it out. Trying to defend Sigourney Weaver.

[Joanna Robinson]

Keep your good ideas close to you.

[Bill Simmons]

The assistant works for her. The assistant is assisting her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Has an idea and she says, you know what? I'm going to tuck that one away. Not tell anyone. Go skiing, breaks her leg, and then this person takes her entire life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. Hard to see.

[Joanna Robinson]

Disagree. I understand that. Like, if you're.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why it's unanswerable.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you're the boss and you're like, I like your idea, I will be leading this deal. That's fine. Because you're the boss. You're not going to say, hey, Tess, you lead this deal. It's your idea. She's the boss. She can lead it. But she doesn't. You don't lie to her and say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, you know the Dictaphone, where she's like, hard copy from the home computer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do not through test. No suggests. And then like, fair counter.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's patronizing her. And she's like, I really tried.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And if you had seen this, you simply would have asked me.

[Bill Simmons]

Obviously, I've been in charge of some stuff. One of the best things you can do it. If somebody works for you and they have a good idea, you then give them credit after the fact that they had the idea.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

With that said, she did steal her job and her man in this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Steal her job.

[Joanna Robinson]

She got a different job.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Tess doesn't get the corner office.

[Joanna Robinson]

She stole the merger.

[Bill Simmons]

She led that to get an entry level Job, Samuel.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No mergers, no acquisitions, no ideas.

[Joanna Robinson]

She has dim sum parties. She has dim sum parties and weird perverts hitting on her.

[Craig]

All right, in Bill's defense. Yeah, I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

Craig sees it.

[Craig]

I agree with Joanne and Amanda. However, in Bill's defense, Tess has been working for katherine for, like, 48 hours. And, like, sure, maybe Catherine wasn't the nicest. To just kind of immediately risk your entire career by kind of, like, taking her job is pretty bold as an assistant.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that's.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the point of the movie. Sigourney Weaver tells her, don't wait for your opportunities to come to you. Go after and get.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And she says to Joan Cusack, like, I'm supposed to follow these rules that I didn't make up? Yeah. I can't like you.

[Bill Simmons]

You rationalize it to yourself however you want.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Karate Kid, when they made the Cobra Kai and they were like, we're flipping this Johnny Lawrence. Maybe he was the victim. And maybe. Maybe Daniel sign.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, so you're waiting for the Catherine Parker show.

[Bill Simmons]

You flip it around. It's like, Catherine's life is not ruined from this assistant she had for 48 hours.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is.

[Bill Simmons]

She's got a limp.

[Joanna Robinson]

The YouTube, if you're still making original TV content, call the party Weaver.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The thing about Devil Wears Prada is that it does sort of understand your point. And that, like, the Anne Hathaway character.

[Craig]

Beaten down over time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but, like. And she has that moment in the car of, like, you already did. You did it to Emily. I was doing it.

[Bill Simmons]

We talked about this in the back. Anne Hathaway.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ultimately, that's the best of the movie. Yes, exactly. That's true. But the movie knows that and is written that way. The working girl is not written.

[Joanna Robinson]

If Tess treated her new assistant at all remotely shabbily right, then it's the Devil Wears Prada's thing where she's just, like, cool. So passing down the trauma.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The last shot, which is still. It's. She doesn't get Catherine's office.

[Bill Simmons]

You're on the record. You support identity theft and mansion stealing. That's what we learned.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not identity.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She uses her own name, which is another thing that you could not.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can't steal a man stole. Her guy isn't hers.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they were dating.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's.

[Craig]

She didn't know that, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was over it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Devora's Prada. She's a much worse person.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Way worse. So annoying, so entitled and poor.

[Bill Simmons]

Vince, for my authorization. No, I made you a Grilled cheese.

[Joanna Robinson]

That guy sucks. Hey.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Y' all.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yarlsburg, Just because she sucks doesn't mean he doesn't suck, because he does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He does. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I put some extra Jarlsberg in and you light in a little mustard. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

[Joanna Robinson]

The Sigourney Warhols.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, that's a good one. I want the dress.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the dress that she wears.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The. Yeah. I don't even think that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not even leather.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I think it would suit me. I googled inflation. I think it would be $16,000 or so because it's 6,000 in the movie. But the bunny.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about the gorilla?

[Bill Simmons]

The bunny she brings to the office.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. For a minute I thought we were talking about Fatal Attraction again.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I was like, no, the gorilla.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Catherine's gorilla.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think the answer, like right there in the corner where Swayze used to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Before he fell over. He hated this movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, Sweezy just hated your hot take.

[Bill Simmons]

What about the two Harrison Ford Luell wedding glasses with the straws? Movie used glasses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Those are good props. Harrison Ford. We need the umbrellas and everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Coach. Finstock award for best life lesson. You don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. Make it happen.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Even if you have to steal identity and somebody's man.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Check the milligrams. Live and learn.

[Bill Simmons]

Check the milligrams for Valium. Double feature choice.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you have for Working Girl?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I have a triple feature. I think this Baby boom and broadcast news are like a very fun. You know, I have Baby boom and.

[Joanna Robinson]

Broadcast News, but also Morning Glory.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Love Morning Glory. Oh my gosh.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rachel McAdams working girl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's incredible. And Harrison Ford in the sort of of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You could talk me in a Working Girl with Pretty Woman. Back to back. 1988, 1990.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just so you can get mad at Gary Marshall for what he stole.

[Bill Simmons]

Double Cinderella. And then you're watching Pretty Woman seeing all the things they took.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's also witness as just double hot Harrison Ford.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think that there's a Devil Wears Prada case as the ably.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Cuz this. That steals but way, way more subtly from some stuff. But just. It's 88.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think if I were two different.

[Joanna Robinson]

Eras, if I were to pick from any of these great options, I think my number one would be Baby Boom because. Because it's not as seen. And if you could get people in the door for Working Girl and say stay tuned to watch Diane Keaton start a baby food empire then.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And Sam Shepard, you're doing good. Sam Shepard and baby boom does not meet Harrison Ford in Working Girl. But like it's getting up there. He's just like in Vermont.

[Joanna Robinson]

Country veterinarian. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let me help you. It's I.

[Bill Simmons]

Is he the all time number one every woman loves somebody guy?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sam Shepard, Harrison Ford. Yes. And they are like of a type. Yeah, yeah. It's powerful. Powerful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sam Shepard was still with us. He would be in a Taylor Sheridan show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's. He's an all timer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who won the movie?

[Joanna Robinson]

Melanie Griffith.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it's Melanie Griffith. Roger Ebert, our guy wrote this is Melanie Griffith's movie. In the same way the Graduate belonged to Dustin Hoffman. She was not an obvious casting choice, but she's the right one. I agree with that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Amanda Howard, this is a delight.

[Bill Simmons]

No, we gotta get Craig's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Craig. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

38 years ago this movie came out, which means Craig was -7, -6, 38.

[Craig]

-8.

[Bill Simmons]

-8. What do you got, Craig?

[Craig]

This movie single handedly saved Liz's relationship with the rewatchables.

[Bill Simmons]

Wonderful. Yeah, we're in a rough run. Death Wish did not go well.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were.

[Craig]

It was a dark, it was a dark time after Death Wish. This really pulled her out of the mud. When this movie ended, she was like best movie ever made. I believe it's her exact quote.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow, great.

[Bill Simmons]

Better than Country Straw.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think.

[Craig]

A little better. A little better. Although she loves Gwyneth. But this is a wonderful romcom. I like it because I feel like the romcoms from back in the day are a little bit edgier.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig]

There's just a little bit of unpredictability in these, a little bit of edge in these. And even the rom coms that have succeeded in the last like 10 or so years or like, you know, like anyone but you, those just have a safeness to them, like a glossiness to them. And these have no one's really bland. The characters are a little bit deeper, you know, like Harrison Ford's character being like a little bit questionable at, at times. I just like that the 80s and 90s kind of provide that in these rom coms.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Agree.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I have a theory on this not to get all philistic. There wasn't a lot going on in the 80s. You just kind of worked and then you went out and you watched television and listened to music and went to the sporting events and.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you mean?

[Bill Simmons]

We didn't have. We had nothing.

[Craig]

What do we do now?

[Bill Simmons]

We had no.

[Joanna Robinson]

You had mtv.

[Bill Simmons]

We had no Internet anything. People around each other all the time. Time.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't have devices being people. You didn't have the Internet as intense.

[Bill Simmons]

Interacting with other people was basically everything you had to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

You couldn't go down your phone, sit.

[Bill Simmons]

At home and just read a book or you could just actually go where other people were.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So we all loved reading books, but you know what I mean.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, I do.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, so movies were able to tap into that in a way that I think the last 10 years of movies with social media, I think people have really.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It all happens on your phone.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they found out even you see it in a lot. Especially. Especially the later movies. They're really good now at showing people texting on phones and they'll have somebody with a phone and you'll see the text and. Or they'll put the text on the screen and the texting and I just don't think it's as good as just people being together.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, I agree. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And so anyone but you is a good example of that because that movie was. Was really successful and it was terrible.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it was really bad.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really, really bad. And guess what? My daughter watched it like seven times. And I'm like, I just. If that movie's winning over a movie like Working Girl, then that kind of tells us where we are.

[Joanna Robinson]

When do you think great rom com was?

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I am not really even on board as late as 2005. 6.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Craig]

So crazy stupid love doesn't do it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no. I'm sorry. And I, I have to tell you, like, I think forgetting Sarah Marshall is really important and I appreciate it's a comedy rom com. Yeah. But it's about. And it's about men. So Notting Hill is 99.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Bridget Jones Diary is 2001.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You've Got Male is 98. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I Want to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So if my wife was there, she would throw out a lot like love in 2004.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. One of her favorite movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Say is that the one where they sing Chicago to each other on the in the car ride. Like ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's powerful.

[Bill Simmons]

That movie's elite.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think this case pre 2005. Pre 2005.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Because I like, I. I have rewatched how lose a 10 days recently, you know, and sorry to the Knicks or whatever, but it has not aged as well as. As you would like. Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Not for My daughter, she loves.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, no, I know. And that one. So that one in 27 dresses are. I think that like.

[Bill Simmons]

27 dresses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A slightly later generation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I just think they're older.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're not. I agree, I agree with you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Delivering the way that like the 90s and the 80s, I think, I think we kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

The genre. Genre. I don't want to say it died. It just shifted into this 2000 and tens. This.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not this movie.

[Bill Simmons]

Drinking Buddies was on cable. But it was like those type of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Movies that's a mumble core.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, like that mumble core era combined with like the Brain Dead. Anyone but you type movies. We never.

[Joanna Robinson]

We don't get the, like Mike Nichols, Nora Efron. Like this is smart, right. And a rom com at the same time. You know what I mean?

[Amanda Dobbins]

There is also. It is a romantic comedy, but there is also the professional plotline as well. And it's as much about like is Tess gonna get.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Getting the man.

[Joanna Robinson]

If she wants the point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And the last shot and the last scene is not about Harrison Ford. It's about her and her dream.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she calls Joan Cusack. She doesn't call Harrison Ford.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, you also, you have a. This is a rom com that has three. Two of the best actors of the 80s with Melanie Griffith and a brick house.

[Joanna Robinson]

It doesn't hurt.

[Bill Simmons]

And then one of the most famous directors of this whole generation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And now we do not have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is now.

[Bill Simmons]

I, I don't know. I, I just feel like we've done so many versions of the same idea. That might be part of it too, where you would still feel like people falling in love would be timeless. But every time you watch them, they're so self aware to the movies that have already happened before them. They almost are afraid to be original.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you can do iterations like I. I'm a big defender of you've Got Mail. I love that movie. And that's a. That's a remake that had. That's a story that had already been made like three other times before it was made for the AOL era. You know what I mean? So like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but that movie has two massive stars in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yeah, but you can remake story premises again and again and again. As long as you do it intelligently and have a good cast.

[Bill Simmons]

The movie with Sudis and Alison Bri is good when they're friends for a long time and then just friends. That one is. That was really2010.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought that was good.

[Bill Simmons]

But I feel like by the time Amy and Paul Rudman, their rom com making fun of all the rom coms. That was when we were kind of like all good with the genre.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, the other thing is that there aren't. It's the movie star thing. Right. Because you just identified that. It's whether it's Julia Roberts, Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, like Sandra Bowen. Those are people who are already movie stars in. And they're like early 30s, they're late 20s. And we don't have movie stars like that anymore in the same way because of superheroes or whatever.

[Joanna Robinson]

I keep hearing, like, oh, they were all in commas back when. And set it up, which I like that movie. It's good. Nobody wants this, which was a TV show. But a lot of good example that.

[Bill Simmons]

Hit and was successful.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it was like a Netflix. It was a Netflix movie. And a Netflix movie doesn't feel as big as. Do you know what I mean?

[Amanda Dobbins]

And Glenn Powell was not a star in the way that. That was like early 2018.

[Craig]

That's the thing is they become like lovable streaming hits.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're not like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or TV shows.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're talking about Working Girl and Die Hard in the same conversation. And you wouldn't put a rom com in the same conversation as a big epic event movie.

[Craig]

The last duo we had was Gosling and Emma Stone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I will say crazy stupid.

[Joanna Robinson]

The part of stupid love that is just them. That's a good rom com. Then there's a lot of other movies.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's so different than sports because in sports, sports is constantly new and the athletes can change.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And rom coms are competing against the ghosts of the iconic rom coms that are just better.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I don't know, you go back.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just think that like in the 90s where there's a ton of great rom coms, you could argue, oh, well, they're competing with the screwball comedies in the 1940s which were, you know, you can't be Catherine Hyper and you can't beat it. But they are. Yeah, they. They are equally great. So I feel like you can keep doing it. We just don't value it anymore. We just consider that Small ball sort of.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Craig's point about that they used to be edgier is an important point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because even like about last night, which is. I don't think it's enough credit for 80s kind of paving the way for When Harry Met Sally and some of these other ones. That's a pretty. Like, there's A lot of R rated movie that starts in that Rob Lowe kind of goes nuts at one point. I just think that movie would be completely different. They remade it with Kevin Hart and Michael Ealy and it's just like, all right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, right.

[Bill Simmons]

But I do think it's a star power thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, definitely part of it.

[Bill Simmons]

We never really replenished. We had had this, you know that every time like Sandra Bullock and Meg Ryan and then it was like Next Generation. Here's Reese Witherspoon and then Kate Hudson's gonna make a bunch. We always had people to put in those and it was always a Matthew McConaughey and now it's basically like Glen Powell.

[Craig]

Well, I think it felt like a necessary piece of the star playbook because you had to do your rom com and I don't think that's like Jennifer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Lawrence and Emma Stone would be wonderful in them if they could write if, you know, if someone committed like the script, the money and the release, nobody wants. They don't want to do it. That's not their strategy. Emma Stone is instead like winning multiple Oscars for art house movies.

[Craig]

But people used to do both, which is cool.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I would have rather she did that than that Nathan Fielder show. I would rather she remade Picture Perfect. What do you say? Picture Perfect. That's another one where somebody's pretending. Yeah, it's oh, I need a date for a wedding. So here's my fiance guy just hired. That's such a great era.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think part of the wedding date.

[Bill Simmons]

The rom com premises were so crazy that I almost. You. They're too self aware now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They don't stand up to like any like ethics treatment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. So maybe. Yeah, maybe we're too scared to be problematic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Craig]

We should say that in a week there is a romcom coming out starring Dakota Johnson with Seline Song as directed.

[Joanna Robinson]

We saw it this week.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We saw it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I would not call it a rom com.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not a romantic comedy there trying to market it.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're mism marketing it.

[Craig]

Never mind.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's in conversation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Like that's the part of it that I really liked. Yeah. But.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, one of the most fun things about having a daughter was watching her hit all the romcom tears with my wife or sometimes by herself. But I just think there's a timelessness to them and it doesn't matter. Like my. I'm positive my daughter would like Working girl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When she got past. Past the hair, she would definitely like it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's also the way for her to learn about the 80s and the hair, you know, it is because the format is recognizable. So then. Exactly. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like that's, that's how I first learned about Wimbledon was the 2004 film Wimbledon starring Kirsten Dunst and Paul bett and James McAvoy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And now here we are.

[Bill Simmons]

Amanda, a true pleasure. Joanna, a true pleasure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

An honor. Thank you so much.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks for letting me witness this incredible moment in your.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It feels so great to be back.

[Bill Simmons]

Producer Craig, always a pleasure. Who else do we have to thank?

[Craig]

Marcelino.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you to him. I guess it's New York month because we've done two New York movies in a row. Might have to do two more. Only need two more for New York Month.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sounds great.

[Bill Simmons]

These were two good ones, though. Thank you both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you both.