The Rewatchables: ‘Zodiac’ (2007)

Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey
Date: January 26, 2026
Podcast: The Ringer’s The Rewatchables

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Rewatchables team revisits David Fincher’s 2007 film Zodiac, diving deep into its enduring legacy, meticulously crafted filmmaking, obsessive characters, and its cult status as a “rewatchable” despite its grim subject matter and chilly original reception. Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey analyze why the film has grown in stature over the years, explore its craftsmanship and influence, debate its place among the best crime films, and dissect the obsession at the heart of both the case and the movie itself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Zodiac’s Slow Burn Legacy

• Initially a box office underperformer, Zodiac has become a cult classic and is regarded as one of the most rewatchable films of the 21st century.
• Sean Fennessey attributes its "slow burn" reputation both to its delayed release (from awards season to a February dumping ground) and its unsatisfying (but thematically apt) lack of closure.
  (03:27) Sean Fennessey: "The whole point of this movie is the unknowability of evil, the unsolvability of these stories... Any time we talk about a serial killer movie on this show or elsewhere, it’s all about the hunt for the killer. Se7en is so satisfying because we get that great resolution... here, you’re meant to revisit, reimagine, to be kind of unsatisfied at the end of it."

2. Fincher’s Methodical Obsession & Craftsmanship

• The film’s obsessive research and attention to detail reflect Fincher’s personal connection to the Zodiac case and his perfectionist style.
• Chris Ryan praises how every rewatch reveals new details—a shadow in the background, a character’s gesture—making it "almost made to be studied" rather than just watched.
  (04:54) Chris Ryan: “It’s a demanding, almost an endurance test of a film... you’re constantly having to pay attention to every single thing on 100% of the screen.”
• The production team re-interviewed living witnesses and rebuilt entire locations (like the Chronicle’s newsroom) down to authentic period newspapers.
• Fincher’s famed digital filmmaking (and his eye for background detail) makes the film visually modern and immersive even today, aiding its streaming-era longevity.
• Fincher’s mindset: "Films aren’t finished, they’re abandoned."
  (06:33) Bill Simmons: "He was basically like, I never finished making Zodiac—I just had to stop making it to make another movie."

3. Obsession as the Film’s Core Theme

• The hosts reflect on the film as a meditation on obsession—both the investigators’ and, by extension, Fincher’s and the audience’s.
• Fennessey (whose father was a detective) and Ryan (whose dad was a newspaperman) note the film’s resonance as it dramatizes two parallel obsessions: journalistic and investigative.
  (07:41) Sean Fennessey: “This is a movie about a newspaperman and a police detective trying to figure something out.”
• The hosts compare the enduring appeal of Zodiac to All the President’s Men and Spotlight—procedurals driven by drudgery and process, but here filtered through a case that remains fundamentally unsolvable.
• Obsession and lack of resolution as a double-edged sword:
  (19:53) Sean Fennessey: “...It not being enough actually makes it interesting to spend more time thinking about. So, it’s pretty profound, don’t you think?”

4. Comparisons with 2007 Cinema and the Shifting Industry

• 2007's Zodiac had to contend in a year with There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, Michael Clayton, and Superbad—a year the hosts call "our 1975" for modern cinema.
• The hosts lament what’s been lost in the years since: procedural, adult-oriented thrillers replaced by franchises and sequels dominating the box office.
• Zodiac’s initial box-office struggles are playfully noted (it was outgrossed by Wild Hogs and 300).

5. On the Film’s Structure and Style

• It’s a two-part film: The first half is a horror-tinged investigation; the back half is a sobering meditation on the impact of obsession, years later.
• The use of multiple actors for the killer and digital clarity enhances both ambiguity and the film’s feeling of modernity.

6. Cast & Characters

• The ensemble cast gets praised: Jake Gyllenhaal (Graysmith), Mark Ruffalo (Toschi), Robert Downey Jr. (Avery), Anthony Edwards, Brian Cox, John Carroll Lynch, and Chloe Sevigny.
• On Gyllenhaal: This marks the transition from his "wide-eyed innocent" era to his later, odder roles.
• On Ruffalo: Praise for his commitment to the ulcer-ridden, detail-obsessed Toschi, with subtle physical business.
• On Downey: Avery’s role is "Downey karaoke," brimming with charisma and sardonic humor.

7. Most Rewatchable Scenes

• The “interrogation of Arthur Leigh Allen” is unanimously nominated as the film’s crown jewel: an intense, riveting, dialogue-driven showdown.
  (26:34) Bill Simmons: “It’s probably my most rewatchable scene... It’s so much fun to watch—the three actors, sizing him up, the faces Ruffalo makes in that.”
• Other top scenes:
  • The opening Lovers’ Lane murder (with “Hurdy Gurdy Man”),
  • The Lake Berryessa stabbing (daylight horror in an idyllic setting),
  • The bar interactions,
  • The infamous basement scene with Bob Vaughn ("one of the most scared I’ve ever been in a theater" - Sean Fennessey, 78:57),
  • The Graysmith–Toschi breakfast revelation.

8. Awards & Industry Context

• Despite critical acclaim, Zodiac was shut out at the Oscars in 2007, likely due to release timing, its perceived “commercial director” status, and being “too cold” for voters.
• The episode discusses who should have gotten nominations, and how the film’s reputation has grown in retrospect—once “not regarded,” now regarded as a masterpiece.

9. The Real Zodiac Case—Unsolvable Mystery

• The hosts walk through the real-life Zodiac timeline, the impact of bureaucracy (multiple agencies, no shared databases), and the obsession that spun off books, documentaries, and endless Reddit threads.
• They discuss real suspects, including Arthur Leigh Allen, recent AI-fueled cryptography theories (the Marvin Margolis "solution"), and the messy realities that keep the case ever-open.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Obsession and Unknowability:
  “It’s almost unknowable on the first watch... so much information, visual and expository, that you’re trying to keep track of. It’s almost made to be studied.”
  – Chris Ryan (4:54)

• The Psychology of Rewatching:
  “You can also throw it on and just have it on and half-watch it, because the music and everything, and there’s always like every 20 minutes, there’s another really good scene.”
  – Bill Simmons (5:51)

• On Fincher’s “Gulag” Approach:
  “He hates sincerity and he hates earnestness in performance... Basically, he’s like, there are two things: I want them to push past the point where they’re acting to achieve a single take that is the right take... The actors on his screen are 10% of the screen. He’s also looking at the way light hits a glass in the background.”
  – Chris Ryan (28:02)

• On the Case’s Elusiveness:
  “The whole point of this movie is the unknowability of evil, the unsolvability of these stories... you’re meant to revisit, reimagine, to be kind of unsatisfied at the end of it.”
  – Sean Fennessey (03:27)

• Fincher’s Perfectionism:
  “He digitally added hair to the close-ups of Jake Gyllenhaal’s knuckles as he draws or holds letters. Because Fincher felt Gyllenhaal’s hands were ‘too hairless and pretty.’”
  – Bill Simmons (107:23)

• On Serial Killers and Modern Life:
  “I don’t think we’re going to see another one, honestly. I think it’s too hard. There’s a camera. Every house has a Ring camera.”
  – Bill Simmons (123:35)

• On the Film’s Structure:
  “It’s almost more like prestige television, where you could watch this in 40-minute bursts if you wanted to... Little breaks here with the fade out. You can step away if you want to and start it again the next day.”
  – Chris Ryan (161:56)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Initial Context: Top movies of 2007, what made Zodiac stand out – 02:31–03:09
• Why Zodiac became a cult rewatchable – 03:09–07:30
• Fincher’s perfectionism and obsession, "movie isn’t done, it’s abandoned" – 06:33–06:54
• Cast discussion (Gyllenhaal, Ruffalo, Downey, ensemble) – 32:20–38:00
• Most rewatchable scenes ("interrogation", basement, opening murder) – 71:09–84:36
• On the real Zodiac case and speculation about the killer – 53:51–63:36
• Oscars and the film's reputation over time – 43:11–47:10
• Fincher’s filmmaking style, legendary perfectionism, anecdotes – 88:29–91:28
• Apex Mountain for Fincher and the film’s place in film history – 135:36–143:03
• Scorsese vs. Spielberg as hypothetical ‘Zodiac’ directors – 145:48–147:02
• Who won the movie?/Final thoughts – 160:49–164:14

Conclusion: Why Zodiac Endures

The hosts agree: Zodiac has grown from a cult curiosity to a canonical work, revered for its meticulous craft, emotional resonance, and depiction of obsession—both in its story and creative genesis. As a procedural that resists closure, it is cinema’s enduring, endlessly rewatchable puzzle box—one that, like its titular killer, may never be caught or fully understood.

Quick Reference: Segment Highlights

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Why Zodiac is now a cult rewatchable | 03:09–07:30 | | Fincher perfectionism/"never done" | 06:33–06:54 | | Acting / Cast breakdown | 32:20–38:00 | | Most rewatchable scenes | 71:09–84:36 | | Real-life Zodiac case / suspects | 53:51–63:36 | | Awards shutout and legacy | 43:11–47:10 | | Fincher’s process and funny on-set tales | 88:29–91:28 | | Apex Mountain & film history context | 135:36–143:03| | Alternative directors (Spielberg/Scorsese) | 145:48–147:02| | Who won the movie? Final reflections | 160:49–164:14|

Memorable Moment

Chris Ryan (28:02):
“Fincher at this period is moving into this new phase where he’s on digital... There are two things—a) I want them to push past the point where they’re acting to achieve a single take that is the right take. Let’s actually work. Let’s actually find something interesting. And second of all, the actors on his screen, as Mark Ruffalo said, it’s like, they’re 10% of the screen. He’s also looking at the way light hits a glass in the background.”

The Rewatchables makes the case for Zodiac not just as great Fincher, but as a definitive American crime film—a knotty, haunting investigation that keeps drawing audiences (and podcasts) back in for another look.