Jason Goff on Michael Jordan’s Peak, The 1996 Chicago Bulls | 05.05

Summary

The Right Time with Bomani Jones
Episode: Jason Goff on Michael Jordan’s Peak, The 1996 Chicago Bulls
Date: May 5, 2026
Host: Bomani Jones | Guest: Jason Goff

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Episode Overview

This Time Machine Tuesday episode is a deep dive into the 1996 Chicago Bulls and the legendary peak of Michael Jordan, featuring Chicago native Jason Goff. With rich memories and insider perspective, Bomani and Jason dissect why the ’96 Bulls remain a cultural and basketball phenomenon—exploring roster construction, Jordan’s resurgence, Dennis Rodman’s impact, and how that team defined an era not just in sport, but for Chicago’s identity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Relentless Greatness of the Bulls Dynasty

• Bomani invokes the unassailable dominance of the ’90s Bulls: “We got the best player, we got the best defensive player, we got the best six man, we got the best rebounder…it was such a matter of fact ticking off of the dopeness of the Bulls.” (00:24)
• Jason reflects on his personal journey as a fan, never taking for granted that every year from age 11 through high school, he was watching the best basketball team in the sport. (03:57)

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2. Michael Jordan’s Ascension, Return, and Control

• Bomani summarizes MJ’s narrative arc: “1984, Michael Jordan shows up… nobody could have guessed he’d average 28 as a rookie, put up 63 in the playoffs, win MVP and Defensive Player of the Year at the same time… win three, take a break, come back, and in 1996, just house the league again.” (00:24–02:46; 25:50–28:22)
• Jason details the transformation in MJ’s game post-baseball, highlighting how his second act was marked by control, increased reliance on the fadeaway, and outsmarting the league with less overt athleticism but greater skill and dominance:

  “That fadeaway jump shot was in the works… He played, and not only did he play, he comes back at that age…and leads the league in field goal attempts. After two years off!” (26:37–28:22)

• Bomani contextualizes MJ’s efficiency:

  “In ’96, he was literally as good as he had ever been relative to his peers.” (28:22)

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3. The Arrival and Impact of Dennis Rodman

• The hosts break down how Dennis Rodman’s arrival—and his unique persona—supercharged the team and the city:
  • Bomani: “What they really did when they got Dennis Rodman was it allowed them to… go into this 2-2-1, three-quarter or half-court trap...the defensive equivalent of the Warriors’ Death Lineup.” (13:01–14:47)
  • Jason describes Rodman’s energy:

    “He would just berate teams and turn them into—like, for instance, I remember the 96 Miami series… he guarded everyone.” (14:47–16:41)

  • Bomani on Rodman as a Chicago cultural lightning rod:

    “By 96… Dennis was getting a louder ovation than Jordan during intros. Dennis got treated like a white man fan favorite.” (16:41–18:00)

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4. Bulls as Rock Stars & Their Chicago Influence

• Jason emphasizes how the ’96 Bulls were not just a basketball team but a cultural force in Chicago, drawing parallels to the city’s golden era in music and identity:

  “There was a connectivity there… rock stars, man.” (09:36) & (53:35)

  • Jason recounts Dennis Rodman showing up at clubs, further cementing his legendary local status. (22:56–23:58)

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5. Respect for Scottie Pippen and Supporting Cast

• Deep discussion on Scottie Pippen’s value and underrated status:

  “Two kinds of people: people think Scottie Pippen is overrated, people think Scottie Pippen is underrated.” – Bomani (05:35)

  • Jason: “I think Scottie Pippen is one of the dopest dudes to ever pick up a basketball.” (05:46)
• Both men underline the Bulls’ roster flexibility—mentioning Ron Harper, Tony Kukoc, Randy Brown, Luke Longley, and others as key to forming a “perfect team for a perfect time.” (45:21–50:27)

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6. The Culture of Fear Around Jordan

• Bomani and Jason address how MJ’s competitive ferocity was unique:

  “With complete deference…to a man, only to one man.” – Jason (35:47)

  • Bomani:

    “With Mike, he was just terrifying...people might be afraid of LeBron...but it ain’t like when these cats talk about Mike; they afraid to talk. They don't even want to say a word around him.” (35:57–36:43)

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7. The 1996 Bulls Within NBA History and Pop Culture

• The team’s combination of organizational stability, coaching excellence, and perfect supporting roles is described as once-in-a-lifetime.

  “It was a perfect organizational, dominant player meets greatest of all time kind of vibe.” – Jason (29:25–32:35)

• Bomani highlights the sheer statistical leap:

  “They won 72 games when the previous record was 69...then the next year they won 69.” (45:21)

• Chicago’s 1996 energy—including rap breaking nationwide—embodied the Bulls’ cultural dominance:

  “It's kind of sad too...whole 25-year-olds that have no clue, 30-year-olds have no clue about what those moments were in time...the league was put on notice the moment he came back.” – Jason (50:48–56:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Bulls’ Unrivaled Confidence

• “There’s really nothing I can do about this. There’s nothing that I have to say, right? Like, that was what it turned into.” — Bomani (00:24)

On Dennis Rodman’s Place in Chicago

• “He was like every white man’s favorite dude that they kind of like to work with but never want to live next to.” — Jason (18:44)

On Jordan’s Ruthlessness

• “With Mike, he was just terrifying.” — Bomani (36:43)

On the Atmosphere in Chicago

• “There was nothing like being a Bulls fan at that time...They had the city, they had the town, they had the area…on lock.” — Jason (50:48)

On the Bulls’ Final Act

• “They were afforded the rare opportunity where we got to see them get back on top, but we never had to watch them fall because of the way that Jordan left and the timing of it.” — Bomani (32:35)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:24 — Bomani’s introduction and setting the stage for the ’96 Bulls discussion.
• 02:46 — Jason contextualizes MJ’s decade-long first-team dominance.
• 09:36 — On the Bulls' cultural impact and Rodman as a local phenomenon.
• 13:01 — The Rodman-for-Purdue trade and its ripple effect.
• 16:41 — Rodman’s transition into a pop culture and “white man fan favorite” role.
• 25:50 — MJ’s return to the Bulls post-baseball.
• 28:22 — MJ’s incredible statistical and skill resurgence in ’96.
• 35:47–36:43 — The culture of deference and fear surrounding Michael Jordan.
• 45:21 — Emphasis on the team's sheer statistical dominance.
• 50:48 — The closing reflections on what it meant to be in Chicago during the Bulls apex.

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in basketball nostalgia, contextual analysis, and sports culture storytelling. Bomani and Jason artfully connect the dots between Michael Jordan’s mythic drive, the Bulls’ historic team chemistry (and quirks), and the way the 1996 season marked both a zenith for Chicago and the NBA at large. Whether you’re a stats nerd, a pop culture buff, or someone who loves the mythology of sports, this conversation brings the era to life—reminding listeners that greatness, when it arrives in the right place and time, transcends the box score.

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Transcript

[Bomani Jones]

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[Jason Goff]

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[Bomani Jones]

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[Jason Goff]

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[Bomani Jones]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time A Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. Got my man Jason Goff here live from Chicago. And I am terrified about the obnoxious beast that I am about to unleash as we discuss the 1996 Chicago Bulls. And I'm saying that to you in the way that I did because I never forget my good friend Wendell from college, Wendell from Chicago. Wendell went to Whitney Young with Quentin Richardson. You know what I'm saying? Right? And I just remember we got to school in 97 and he was just like, look, there's nothing you can tell us about basketball. We got the best player, we got the best defensive player, we got the best six man, we got the best rebounder. It was such a matter of fact ticking off of the dopeness of the Bulls. And I really did just sit there like, yeah, there's. There's really nothing I can, I can, I can do about this. There's nothing that I have to say right? Like that, that was, that was what it turned into. As if it wasn't enough in the beginning, just beginning, just that you had Jordan like, like the, the climb to the 96. Like we normally try to do like a step by step that gets us into what the year is. I don't even know how to do this fast. I just know 1984, Michael Jordan showed up. And it's so wild because I don't get the feeling everybody, like, there are a few people, like Bobby Knight, who's like the best basketball player I've ever seen, you know, those sorts of things. But the truth is he still went number three in the draft. Like, I don't think there's anybody that can honestly say they thought that dude was going to hit the league and average 28 points a game and then break his foot and put up 63 in the finals and, and then scored 37 a game and then win the MVP and the defensive Player of the Year at the same damn time and then have two years where he doesn't win the mvp, but probably was the best player in the NBA. And then you rattle off the three championships and then he takes a break and then he comes back in 95 and then 96 happens. When do you want to jump in? Like, I feel like I just like what I remember from watching the last dance was just being like, yo. It's kind of easy to forget that it was like something going on every

[Jason Goff]

year, every single year. And the crazy part about I. I went back and looked at some of the things when Ryan hit me. There's a lot of. You go to basketball reference.com. there's a lot of NBA- ones after 85, 86. There wasn't a moment where he didn't play a full season where he wasn't first team like you one of the five best players for nine, 10, 11 years straight. And we see it with LeBron, you know, we see with certain guys and like all right, co. But not only the best player, but like dominatingly the best player. There were no conversations about it. I leading up to it. And you forgot to mention best coach too. Right. Like the way that all that came together. The first three were ridiculous. There's a lot of conversations that happened in this city about, and I'm not mad at it, that 92 team might have been the best all around team that was ill that 92 and. And because it was more Jordan Pippen too. Like you look at, I think John Paxton was the third leading scorer in the playoffs that year. 92, right. It's like 10 points a game.

[Bomani Jones]

It was all indictment. That is an indictment of Horace Grant. Well, what you just said is an indictment of Horace Grant.

[Jason Goff]

Well, Horace, you know, and shout out to Horace. Horace had his ups and some of his downs and we saw in the last dance when the Orlando thing, boy, you talk about, you talk about can't come back. When Horace went up on them shoulders, was it 94? No, 95. 95. End of the 95. Oh my God. It was like you can't. And now he's been welcomed back in. I just, I don't take for granted that from the moment I was 11 years old to the day I graduated high school, every single year I was watching the best basketball team not only in the game, but arguably one of the best in the sport just in terms of runs. And then you get to 96. And that is in terms of a cultural year. Like you look at the albums that came out that year, you look at everything that was happening around the sport and Then him coming back and it being, okay, Mike's back. This ain't you getting ripped from behind Nick Anderson. This ain't Mike coming back from baseball. This is. Michael was back and leading up to it, the two years, which are two of my. We talked about this. Two of my favorite years as a Bulls fan. When Scottie Pippen was running, they had two guys who got the top five voting. 96. Right. In MVP, if I'm not mistaken. I think maybe Scotty might have been fifth or six, but Scotty had.

[Bomani Jones]

If Scotty was fifth or sixth in the 95 MVP voting, that was a preposterous travesty. And that team was like. It was about 50, 50 when Mike came back. I do not. And, you know, he was number seven. You're right. He was number seven.

[Jason Goff]

Seven. Yeah. Two dudes on the same squad.

[Bomani Jones]

He made first. He made first team all NBA in 95. That. That. You know, we've talked about this. Two kinds of people. People think Scottie Pippen overrated. People think Scottie Pippen underrated.

[Jason Goff]

And you talking to two. The same two people on the same platform right now. Cause I think Scottie Pippen is one of the dopest dudes to have to pick up a basketball. And I hear you. And sometimes I gotta. I gotta. I gotta shield myself. Like. Like, last was a couple episodes ago when you was talking about who is Iota Sue? I'm like, this Morgan Park's finest. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Bo ain't from here, so he don't know, right? I'm expecting you to be watching Illinois Big Ten moves. Like, you know what he did in Illinois. That's the same way I get about it.

[Bomani Jones]

Nah, man.

[Jason Goff]

That's the same way I get about it.

[Bomani Jones]

Brother. Brother. I was about to treat IO like I treated that boy Shad Pipple. I was about to have IO coming straight from the motherland, dog. Like, maybe he, like, took a stop in London or. Or maybe he was from Houston. I ain't know y' all had enough Nigerians to be sent him to the NBA.

[Jason Goff]

Oh, huge, huge population here. And great family, too. Great family. But I know. I don't wanna derail you. I don't wanna derail you.

[Bomani Jones]

Hold on. Are you saying the Dosun moves got a huge population, or you mean the Nigerians in general?

[Jason Goff]

Both. Both in the city.

[Bomani Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Goff]

Oh, yeah. Both. Oh, yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

I just ain't know, maybe it was a gang of do soon moves, you know what I'm saying?

[Jason Goff]

There's a gang of them and it's a lot of Nigerians in this city as well. I know too many promoters. I know too many party promoters to not have. To the Nigerian community. I know too many real estate homies who. To not have bumped into the Nigerian community here in the city of Chicago. But, yeah, man, this, this, that. This 96 thing was so ill in so many ways, because it was. You get two years where you let the Houston Rockets win their championships, team do what he does. Drexler does. I know. I know. Yeah, I'm here with it. Drexler does what he does in that second year, and then the true rightful owners of the.

[Bomani Jones]

Who was gonna guard Akeem, who was gonna guard Dream? Is all I'm saying. I'm not even a Rockets fan. Who was gonna guard Dream? Dream would be wearing Horace Grant and Cartwright out. Cartwright only had one strategy for Akeem. What was that strategy? Jason Goff, what was that strategy that Cartwright had?

[Jason Goff]

Elbow.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, that elbow. To break his face. That was all he had. Otherwise, he was out there firing y' all asses up. The Rockets had an over.500 record against the Bulls. Nobody else did. All I'm saying is the Bulls would not have won autumn rings. The Rockets would have got at least one of them. And y' all need to stop acting like it was just like somebody did a favor or something like that. Mike was so damn burned out after 93, he had to leave and go play baseball. Okay. Anyway, I understand.

[Jason Goff]

I understand what comes.

[Bomani Jones]

The Bulls were down for a couple of years.

[Jason Goff]

The Bulls. The Bulls were down for a couple years. Like I said, the two years. Yeah. The O.J. chase on TV, all that good stuff happening. Shaq versus the king. That was fool. But then the return of the real ones came, right? Mike came back. Scotty had gotten to that elevated sense of self, right? And then the Dennis thing, which, you know, there are very few things that make a sports community really show how phony it is than when a rival joins your team, right?

[Bomani Jones]

Like, I saw, you can't do nothing about it. At that point.

[Jason Goff]

They didn't even. Like, there were conversations of like, does Scotty want him on the team? Does Michael want him on the team? Well, you know, yeah, they do, because they need that position to be filled. You. You weren't gonna go out there with, you know, Ed Neely or Larry Krzysztowiak or anything else out there. You're gonna go with that dude and what he did to the city. Like, I've always. I've always tried to posit that Michael Jordan was everyone's right in a way that Derrick Rose felt like he was more obviously Chicago's Dennis Rodman dropped into CH and immediately set the city on fire and was like places that people that wore bold uniforms were just not at.

[Bomani Jones]

Right.

[Jason Goff]

So there was that connectivity there. And they were rock stars, man. I remember Jim Clemmons used to pull up to my barbershop in Evanston and he pull up and he had assistant coach Jim Clemens. Assistant Jim Clemens went on to be the Dallas Mavericks head coach for a little bit as well. And he pulled up. That was a terrible idea. On multiple levels, by the way. On multiple levels. But he pull up and it'd be like. It'd be like the Beatles pulling up, dog. Like it was. You had Oprah, who was still popping at that time. Like every. There was a lot of Chicago centric happening, not only in the sports world, but in pop culture. And to watch that, I remember it might have been first week in February. Damn. Yeah. It was back to back losses to the Denver Nuggets and the Phoenix Suns on the circus trip every year. Barnum Bailey Circus would come to the United center slash Chicago Stadium before that and there'd be a seven game trip. It's like the Grammy trip for the Lakers and they go out west. And every year. I knew as a kid, late basketball, I could stay up late, watch it, hang out with my best friends on the Bulls telecast. Man. Do you know when they lost those two games to a young Antonio McDyess and a rookie Michael Finley, the calls that were happening, it was because the BUL were on the verge of losing three games in a month for the first time. That's how real it was. Two, two losses. We let you slide three back to back losses on the circus trip that Dennis Rodman is on the team now. Oh yeah, there was a lot of consternation there.

[Bomani Jones]

Well, hold on. I want to back up to Dennis Rodman getting to the Bulls because I think the circumstances that surround that are noteworthy. Right. So those who weren't around, even those who don't remember that much. Dennis Rodman played two years in San Antonio. San Antonio straight is Sean Elliott for Dennis Rodman. Okay. I don't think you could sub out one personality and replace him with another and shift the tenor of the room more significantly than that. Right. Like. Like they are completely different humans. And you bring Dennis Robin there. Bob Hill was the coach. Greg Popovich was a general manager. Your best player is David Robinson, who is an awesome player at this point. He is one of the two best players in the NBA at this point, that's the dude that if you drop him off now, it's just like, okay, this is completely unfair, but just an unreal player and a really, really good man who had nothing in common with Dennis Rodman whatsoever. And I don't think Dennis Rodman had a modicum of respect for him and his old military shit and all of this stuff. None of that. He wasn't going for it. But Rodman was really good. They were really good. Rodman becomes this giant star while in San antonio and in 1995 during the Western Conference finals. And there'd been all enough Dennis Rodman stuff going on throughout the year anyway, there was a Sports Illustrated cover story written by Michael Silver called Rare Bird. And Rodman, it looked like he owned the COVID of a Prince album, right? Like he got on like a leather. He got like a parrot. I feel like there was some lingerie element that was involved in it. Right Somewhere right after that.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

And I remember the day after that issue came out, I want to say it was game two in the finals and he was out there putting up shots like it was about him. Like it was the wildest shit. They got so sick of having him that the spurs traded Dennis Rodman straight up. For who?

[Jason Goff]

Jason Goff, my former co host and partner, Will Purdue, ladies and gentlemen, my guy.

[Bomani Jones]

Straight up Dennis Rodman for Will Purdue. The spurs were telling the world, we're willing to get worse. Just get this dude out of here, right? Like, it's like we have a friend of the program who wants. Landlord pulled up at his crib when he was in college and it was so tore up and they owed money. And he was like, I don't care about the money. Just leave. Just get out of here tomorrow. Nothing else matters. You just have to go. That's what they did with Dennis Rodman and what they did when they. With. With the Bulls. Look, all Dennis Robin did was play monster defense and get rebounds, right? Like he, he passed well, he make all the right plays. You know, it's the, the last dance where you're doing the, you know, doing all that or whatever. But what they really did when they got Dennis Rodman was it allowed them to periodically, if you thought you were going to like, beat them and get ahead, they would go into this 2, 2, 1, 3, quarter a half court trap. I can't remember what it was. It was the defensive equivalent of the warriors death lineup. This lineup comes in and now NBA teams look like it's the Seventh grade versus the faculty game and y' all can't get the ball past half court.

[Jason Goff]

The energy, the energy, right. And that's the thing too. Like after, like Dennis has some hard miles on him too, from Detroit to San Antonio when he got to Chicago. Yeah, and exactly a lot of things when he got to Chicago, it was. Is he going to not only be able to hold up, but can you sustain this type of intensity and energy throughout the rest of the season? At the age that he was getting, like we treat dudes now who being in NBA 17 years, 18 years, like, oh, look, he's still in great shape. I mean, James Buddha Edwards was on that 96 team in his 18th year. And I'm like that. And KD don't look the same, right? So guys age differently and basketball was different back then. Dennis would not only steal you possessions, but his energy through three or four minute spurts would just berate teams and turn teams into like for instance, I remember watching some of those 96. What was it? The, the, the Miami series, where. Yeah, 96 Miami series where you got, you know, alive in the morning, you got Tim Hardy, we got some, some cats over there. And Dennis ran up and down and, and he annoyed people. He, he got the ball, extra possessions, deflections. Dennis was a terrific passer when he was locked in, like there were, there were moments where he was just wanting to be himself and feel allowed for because he knew he was going to get all the extra shit from him too. And he did that three straight years. But that was the first year where it was the proof of concept. Because like you mentioned, when he was in San Antonio, that's when the Demolition man hairdo thing, the broad hair happen. And people are like, all right, this is now sideshow and now we're getting away from basketball. But he was still amazing at basketball. He was still amazing defender like Dennis, Dennis in that Seattle series in 96, he guarded everyone. He guarded Peyton, he guarded Detliff, he guarded Sean Kemp, he guarded everybody on that team because he was that cold.

[Bomani Jones]

Well, hold on. What is interesting is that Dennis Rodman has spent years getting all kind of funny shit cut in his hair, all kinds of sayings and all of this stuff. But when he did the Demolition man, like Dennis Rodman endured as a pop culture figure much longer than that expected blockbuster movie did. It's called Demolition Man. It was Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes. And Wesley Snipes character had a blonde dyed box because it started with Dennis having the actual, the exact haircut and then it just turned into, like, the evolution of all the colors. But the thing that happened that I don't think anybody really bet on is he became so famous. He's out here dating Madonna and all of this stuff. But they were saying that in 96. By the time that came around, Dennis was getting a louder ovation in the building than Jordan was during intros. It was almost like Dennis Rodman got to be treated like a white man. And this is what I mean by that. If you have ever covered or been around a team that had that particular white man on the team, nobody could bring them out. They seats quite like a shot blocking white man. And I know this because I was in Miami when they had the Birdman.

[Jason Goff]

Oh, Chris Anderson.

[Bomani Jones]

I am not convinced that when Ray Allen hit that shot in Game 6 in 2013, I'm not convinced that that got louder than when Birdman would get a block. When Birdman would get a block, it would just all turn up. And Dennis Rodman, like, managed to occupy. Somehow being that guy, he became like white man fan favorite. It'd be like if Bobby Hansen cahoot.

[Jason Goff]

So shout out to Bobby. That's a stray that he didn't need to catch just now. And I. And I noticed it. But

[Bomani Jones]

you covering your relationship with,

[Jason Goff]

rather

[Bomani Jones]

than just letting that ride, you had the option of letting that shit ride. But you like, hold on, let me put all my cake. White man in distress.

[Jason Goff]

No, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that speaking. Don't do that. But Dennis, you know, it's funny that you mentioned Dennis was white adjacent in a way that he did all the white dude shit right. Like, he dated the carbon electrics of the world. He rode the Harleys. He would go to Excalibur, where you wouldn't catch many, if any, brothers here in the city. Like, he would do those things. And he listens to rock and roll music. He hung out with Tommy Lee. Like, he was, you know what he is? He was like every white man's favorite dude that they, like, kind of like to work with but never want to live next to. You know what I'm saying? Like, they can't. They can't wait to run into Earl at the gig. So they can just laugh about silly and. And live vicariously through his. His, you know, his escapades, but they don't really want you to live right next door to him. Dennis had that vibe to him. And you the shit that he would do. Like, as a kid, I like wrestling Right. So I kind of understood a lot of what he was giving off, like, the full layouts to get loose balls, where it'd be like, if you dove and kind of corralled it and threw it back with your athleticism, it would actually be a possession that you stole. And also, you know, you can keep it going, but the guys who say a dunk is worth more than two points, all of Dennis's shit was worth more than it looked like on the court. And I hate to do that whole feeling and emotion thing and vibes and all that, because it's so nebulous, but he. He did things where you knew he wasn't involved and engaged in the game, and he would just turn up and it'd be like, I'm here now, and everybody else will rise with him. And that would happen once or twice a game, and then you'd see him sit over there with the towel over his head and taking it. Like, he took his shoes off when he subbed out. Like, he did a lot of weird shit. So he was always.

[Bomani Jones]

He was always.

[Jason Goff]

He seemed. And I hate to. To put it this way, but he was. He seemed like a lot of basketball fans favorite pet, where it was like, oh, look at. Look at what Dennis is doing. Did you see Dennis last night? And meanwhile, he's shutting down huge, huge centers and power forwards who are 3 or 4 inches taller than him and getting 17, 16 rebounds. It was, you know, and at the end there, his rebounds became kind of like the Ray Lewis tackles at the end of his run. Whereas, like, if he was anywhere around it, you know, Ray touch a pile. Ray got 27 tackles that day. Like, it started to get to level, but he. He was that. He was that kick in the ass that I think Phil Jackson wanted the Bulls to have. You know, there. There was that. There was that understanding of how to play basketball, but the energy, just. The energy just wasn't going to be right. And if you put anybody else in

[Bomani Jones]

that position, I feel like. I feel like they needed the opposite of the kick in the ass, because the kick in the ass was Mike all the time, right? Like, somebody had. Somebody had to make this seem like it was a little bit more entertaining because, like, this dude is. It never turns off with him. Like, he's always there. But I always felt like with Robin, too, that once Mike came back to that team, it's like, so how exactly do you go about making this team better? Because that's not a team that truly needs a secondary scoring option. Like, normally somebody in Mike's position, you're like, yo, we got to get somebody else out here to give Mike some help getting these buckets, because Scotty ain't going to do it. But it never really was at the point where you needed somebody else to go get them buckets. It was just like, nah, let's. We can make a very easy adjustment by getting Will Purdue out of here, and we're going to bring in Dennis Rodman. And, yeah, now also this team that was going to be the biggest deal anyway. They add the guy that's become as big a star as anybody in the NBA. The dude that's the one that they all flock into when they go to the club, even though he ain't take no shower after the game.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

You seen KG talk about that with KG? Be like, yo, after the game, StairMaster in combat boots. And then going funky, going straight to the club, because he. He going for the ones that like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. But I feel like it's like, even all the way clean, Dennis look like he just got through hooping, so why not just go after you got done hooping?

[Jason Goff]

Craziest thing, the craziest dinner story in a club that I've ever experienced was the first year that the Bulls bowed out under Derrick Rose and that Carlos Boozer, you know, luau dang team. And everybody was in town for that game. I mean, everybody. Like, you walk into the locker room afterwards, and Latrell Sprewell is in there. Like, why are all these people here? This is the center of the basketball universe for some reason that night. And we go out, and a lady walks into the club with a ferret on her shoulder. And I was like, what's happening here? And I asked some questions, and nobody knew. And then it made sense because Dennis came in shortly after that lady and other ladies came with him. It was just. That's the kind of, you know, shout or not, ferret or not. Your game, your moment or not. Dennis Rodman has always had that kind of, you know, the je ne sais quoi.

[Bomani Jones]

Well, let me tell you what's so crazy about this. We talk about the 96 Bulls, and we let Dennis Rodman detour us. We have not actually talked about that Mike came back thing, Right? Like, Mike came back. So coming up next, we gonna talk about this 96. Mike came back. And Mike came back with the worst thing for the world that he ever could have come back with. And I'll tell you what that is when we come back you can predict the playoff action all the way to the finals with FanDuel predicts. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes and misses. Every move is a potential plot twist. Predict the spread, the total points and even the game winning moments that make the playoffs where one run, one rebound, one shot changes everything from opening tip to the final buzzer. Stay locked in with every pass, every play and every moment that moves us closer to crowning a champion. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. 18 plus bonus is non withdrawable and expires 7 days after receipt Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predicts bonus offer terms it's

[Jason Goff]

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[Bomani Jones]

All right, back here with Jason Goff talking about the 96 bulls. And yeah, so Jordan comes back and the man who invented slights in his own mind to motivate himself had 12 of them. Nick Anderson took the rock from him. We talked about that. And it's funny because Nick Anderson's career ended two series later when he missed those free throws, but Nick Addison took the rock from him. And then they carried Horace Grant off on shoulders and that meant that Michael Jordan was coming back with a vengeance. And I mean look, at this point, Michael Jordan is 32, 33 years old. Like he is not a young man. The the idea that he could come back and just house the league again is insane considering he took two seasons

[Jason Goff]

off and he came back. You know, that fadeaway jump shot was was in the works.

[Bomani Jones]

He didn't have it.

[Jason Goff]

He was in the works, right? Like he, he did it. You know, he tinkered with it, but it was a lot of jumping over people, a lot of angles. You know, his in and out dribble is arguably like people. I talk about crossovers. You go back and see how much Work he did with that in and out dribble from 91 to 93 is crazy. Very fundamental, dude. But then the fadeaway comes back. The post game comes with him, right? He looks bigger, obviously he's getting older. And then he plays, right? And this is where people have the conversations and get into. And the LeBron Jordan conversation is so tiresome. But when people do bring it up, they talk about how much he played, he played, he played. And not only did he play, he comes back at that age after having that much rusty and leaves the league in field goal attempts, right? And this is looking Scotty in the eyes after two years of you being the man, you, you know, you riding around with Hugh Hollands on your shoulder everywhere you go like Hugh, I would, you know, things would have been different. You, you come back and not only come back and go, I'm not only still Mike, I'm gonna take the most shots, I'm gonna be the most efficient like the, that we see SGA doing. Now, Mike was doing that for nine, 10, 11 years straight where it's like, nah, dog, he damn. He did. And how many did he shoot now? What do you do there? And this is without the three, right? This is, this is without the three. This is without a lot of like the game, the way the game was where you play pretty much elbow to paint. And every once in a while you had a specialist who was out there. He was doing a lot of this in traffic. He was doing a lot of this stuff where, you know, the zone rules were different. It was crazy, man. It was absolutely crazy.

[Bomani Jones]

Let us not forget something somewhat important about the 96 season, however. That's the year that Jordan shot 43% from three. Because that was when they had moved a three point line in just a little bit, right? Now, granted, everybody got to benefit from that, but Mike came up in an era where having a three point shot was not a requirement and his range did not really go out that far. But it didn't really matter because nobody could stop him from going to the rack. But in that year, Mike hit 43% of his threes. Because you talked about the basketball reference that a lot of NBA won. The other thing about him is his advanced numbers page has all the bold face, right? Like the numbers bear out everything we tell you about Michael Jordan. Like, this is not just simply about fandom. By every metric basically that exists, he was that dude. He came back off the off whatever you want to call it. And in 96, he was literally as good as he had Ever been relative to his peers.

[Jason Goff]

96 was a. There was a control to his game, where you thought the ultimate level of control had been reached already. There was control because, let's face it, when he goes to Barcelona, and that is really the. All right, this is never going to be anybody else's. And Magic and Larry mentioned that, right? We're three or four years removed from that. Where the game has, you know, moved on a little bit, obviously, and then you're introducing new players, right? The Grant Hills of the world, the Jason kids. Like the league is. Is in the moment looking for whatever the next face is going to be, Right? Shaq just came here in 92, and we're like, we've never seen anything like this. This is Wilt with an extra 50, 70 pounds or something. Like, all those things are happening. He comes back with a controlled dominance that from 96 to 98. You know, people talk about which run was more fun. The opponents were probably more fun, 91 and 93. But I'm just talking about going out there every night and understanding there was going to be a moment in the game where. All right, Ben Baker. All right, Glenn Robinson. All right, Ray. Appreciate y'. All, Y' all been cool. This is a Tuesday night in January. We're going to get you up out of here with this 162 run in the third quarter. Like, there were more you, Johnny, Red Kerr and Tom and Tom Door would talk about the moment that they were waiting for when Mike and them just turn it on. And they, they. They knew, they knew. Kind of like when Tiger used to get ready for the Masters, when he was, you know, big dog back in the day, where you go to these little tournaments and work on. And like, why is Tiger taking that shot from the fringe? He meant to go there because he knows that at some point he gonna have to use this wicked flop shot and he doesn't have in his bag. Two, three, four, five, six tournaments ago, that's all the regular season seemed like that year. Like 72 wins. I know, I know. The Golden State warriors case of the 73, 9 and them not winning the championship, that looked different because of the proliferation of the three point shot and how it made just teams just crumble. And now we think, hey, you're down 20 with seven minutes left. You still got a chance. This was a time where if you were down 10, town 8 to those boys, the way they played defense and how controlled his game was and how controlled Scotty's game became as well. Like, they. It was. It was a Sweet spot for basketball that, you know, seemingly the first three years of championships didn't suffice. Like going up against Magic in 91, 92 with the team that beat the Blazers and how ridiculous that was. And then you realize that the three peat happens against that Barkley squad. But 96 just felt like, all right, this is, this is a dude who is at the top of his game. He has had two years off. It seems like he's functioning at a different level. And on top of it, they know exactly what they needed around him. Right? They knew that. All right, you got to switch John Paxton out for BJ Armstrong. Now you got to add Tony Ku coach. Like it was, it was a perfect organizational, dominant player meets greatest of all time kind of vibe. Like it was, it was, it was a great, great, great moment in time, man. Great moment in battlefield.

[Bomani Jones]

They were afforded the rare opportunity where we got to see them get back on top, but we never had to watch them fall because of the way that Jordan left and the timing of it. All right, like, like it was just like, all right, it was, it was what people expected when Muhammad Ali came back from having his license taken back, that, okay, Google, he's just going to come back and get the NBA champ again, right? And I guess maybe you could make the argument that losing to the magic in 95 was like when Ali Joe Frazier. But no, I think that's still a. Like Ali didn't come straight into fighting Joe Frazier. Right? Like they had some, you know, they had some other fights before we wound up getting there. But I think when you start talking about those runs, that clip of all that, all the smoke live of Kevin Garnett talking about what it was like when the Timberwolves had this lead over the Bulls and Junior Rider was giving Mike to work and KG is like, yeah, man, cussing all this and Mike is over there watching. And Junior Rider. Part about this story to be about Junior Rider is JR Rider's rookie year was 1994. Okay, so I looked this up. Prior to 96, the 95, 96 season, JR Rider had never played in a game with Michael Jordan. He hadn't. When would he, Right? Jordan came back with 15 games left in the 95 season. So he had never played against Jordan, but he knew enough to know that KG needed to shut the up because Mike is not going to appreciate this. And he said that's when the ran came like the run cave, where KG is like, I can't begin to explain to you what happened in the next four or Five minutes of play where he said it just felt like they were on defense all the time. That, that Mike just came back the other way. Like the run was going to be there. The one home game they lost that year because remember, they lost one home game. And I believe it was to the Hornets that they lost that home game. I think the Hornets were out there wearing the purple shirts and. But I remember in that game, the Bulls got in that trap and it looked like them boys wasn't going to have no chance. Somehow. Somehow the Hornets withstood, but it was just like, hey, man, what are we like, anything like. Like this? Yeah. Oh, they lost two home games that year, but the Hornets were the first one. One. I want to say.

[Jason Goff]

And, and by the way, that JR

[Bomani Jones]

I'm trying to do this in real time.

[Jason Goff]

The Junior Ryder reference too, by the way. For the people who don't know if you making a. Ain't no list. He is very high up on that list in NBA recent memory. Like, Junior Rider ain't no punk. So to. To imagine him saying, hey, man, let's try not to. Try not to piss this dude off. You know what I'm saying?

[Bomani Jones]

Let's. Junior. Hey, Mike, you don't know yet. Mike. Like he is asking Mike for mercy, basically.

[Jason Goff]

So tell me how that makes you feel, because I've had so many conversations with dudes who played during that era and for all this league and this era and this generation ain't tough stuff. I hear all these conversations and people have their reasons, but with complete deference

[Bomani Jones]

to a man, only to one man. But only to one man.

[Jason Goff]

I'm talking about. Anybody out.

[Bomani Jones]

Yes. It's like. It's like listening to cats like Bob Lilly talk about Jim Brown or like talk about Dick Buckets. Right? Like, I think one thing we could fully acknowledge, football was a tougher game back then than it turned into. Right. Like, I think there's. Nobody has any questions about that. And them old heads, hey, man, you have to humble yourself before a particular sort of greatness. And with Mike, he was just terrifying. Like when. When Stephen a. Smith and J.J. reddick got in that argument about whether or not people were afraid of LeBron. People might be afraid of LeBron. Right. JJ may be correct about it, but it ain't like when these cats talk about Mike where they afraid to talk. They don't even want to say a word around him was different.

[Jason Goff]

He carried that.

[Bomani Jones]

LeBron's not crazy.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the, the. The definite psychotic nature of. And let's face it the. The archetype too. Like, you know, Mike, leading up to that 96 season, there was an NBA where you had to have a big right. You had Brad Dougherty in Cleveland. You had this one here, you had that one there. Mike in the wing dominance came throughout the late 80s, early 90s, that whole run. And then in 96, when you land there and you see not only the elbow stuff, the terrifying nature, the psychotic making up of things to fuel him, the way we were aware of how he was treating teammates too, by the way, this is the other thing too. This is before social media, this is before cable news was our access to the world. And also the writers. And the writers were like, hey, dudes are walking around this scared. This. This does not feel like a great workplace. But they winning championships, so you can't do about it. Like Terry Boris, God rest his soul, he used to write for the Chicago. I believe Terry was. Terry was a sometimes guy. Yeah, yeah. And Terry said after his third practice of seeing Mikey is like. He went to the phone, he's like, the. The Bulls have the best player, one of the best players in the league. I don't need to see no more. So from that moment on, Mike built up to being the crazy that you saw, right? Because Mike used. Mike came to Chicago and drank Lipton iced teas and ended up being the dude who had 23 on every Ferrari and every Benz ever made. Like he turned into this maniacal dude. And in 96 coming back, the disrespect that I think he took from the Orlando Magic even winning that series, right? Like he had been the Market Square arena, face down to Knicks, see a bad boy Pistons walk past me in the Auburn Hills, passing of the torch that way. You mean to tell me the Mickey Mouse team gonna come out here and do this bet? Bet. Scotty, clear it up. Get your migraine medication. Do whatever you gotta do. We ain't filming no movies. We good money. We out here in 96 was that. And. And not to mention he. The way that Michael Jordan controlled. Well, hold on, hold on.

[Bomani Jones]

Let me. Let me hit you on something you just said about filming the movie that this is very important to note, which is the summer of 95 is when they shot that movie, right? Mike, in terms of the difference and everything else that we were just talking about, these cats wouldn't do this for LeBron, ever. These cats volunteered to be in a movie to be vanquished by Michael Jordan. Now, maybe they agreed to it when Mike was retired and so they didn't think that they were setting themselves up for this against an active player, but a big part of his summer to get ready for the season was Space Jam and then playing pickup games.

[Jason Goff]

See, and that's the crazy part is because that's. The people around the league knew that he was running up to the Berto center and practicing with them dudes throughout. You know, Chris Mullen and Tim Hardaway sat down and interviewed those dudes for NBC Sports Chicago a couple years a few years back. And those cats was like, oh, yeah. He pulled up in the Bay in 95 and was like, I just want to get a run in real quick. To their practice. To their practice. Can you imagine pulling up to the Oklahoma City Thunder facility as, I don't know, Nick Collison or Russell, Y' all

[Bomani Jones]

got y' all five.

[Jason Goff]

Hey, we. We doing something here. And you're not on our team, by the way. Like, this is. This is the. The level of deference that these cats had to this man. And as he's filming this, you know, Grant, every Juwan, everybody's out there. This dude is doing recon.

[Bomani Jones]

He.

[Jason Goff]

He made y' all think, hey, man, come hoop with a real one. You might. Might put you in my movie. You know what I'm saying? We. We telling a lot of lies in this movie. I'm telling a lot. I live in a three bedroom.

[Bomani Jones]

But here's the thing, though. But what's going to make you better than playing against Michael Jordan? Like, what path can you take toward improvement that is more iron, sharpens iron. Then we gonna go hoop with Mike.

[Jason Goff]

I feel you. But when you get your ass out on that playoff court and he know that your left ain't what it need to be.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, but you know, he know all

[Jason Goff]

the you've been saying about your teammates,

[Bomani Jones]

but he was good. First of all, he was gonna know that anyway, right?

[Jason Goff]

Not the. That you won't say about your teammates, though.

[Bomani Jones]

Maybe not that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe not, right? But like, number one, Mike was gonna know that about you. And another all Smoke club very Auto Smoke is your place for Jordan content. But when Reggie Miller was all there talking about, like, so I looked up like, what. What is it that you could do with Mike, right? Like, what did you. He said, I never found a tail. I never found anything. What was that you could get Mike doing, right? And he's like, so what's his percentage if you make him go left? Great. What's his percentage if he goes right? Great. What about if he takes a jumper from the Elbow. Great. What about if you make him go to the fade away? Great. It didn't matter. Right. So the 96 version of Mike is not the. He was still physically incredible, but he's not the physical marvel that he used to be. But now he has become a supercomputer.

[Jason Goff]

Right, Right. And you couldn't do anything with him, nor the way, you know, unless the triangle thing, like there's, there's. There's moments where we talk about the triangle and then it gets over. Exaggerated the importance of it. But I also think the importance of it can't go, can't be understated. Like, you could switch out Luke Longley for Bill Cartwright. You could switch out, you know, BJ Armstrong for John Paxton. Like, the star of that entire thing obviously was Michael, but the real star to me was Michael being like, this is the way we do this. Because I fuck with Tex and I fuck with Johnny Bach and I fuck with Phil Jackson. Like the things that had to be in play for that 96 season. It wasn't just people getting shot out, out the gym and us having the four. Three or four greatest talents on, on the face of the earth as, as

[Bomani Jones]

an organization, by the way.

[Jason Goff]

That's what. And that, that's what I'm saying. Like, the waiter came here and everybody was dissing him. Like this actually cold. But we were talking about Michael and Scotty, right. Like there was, there was basketball hubris that this city has not had, I think, in any others, like the 85 bears, obviously. Right. But. But to, to see it, like you mentioned, be that machine, like that efficient and that dominant, and to know that it was going to happen again, because during that season, like the first 20 games of that season where I think they lost one, they're like, oh, shit, they about to do this at a different level than we saw. And what we saw was kind of fire. Like those three years, 91 and 93, was amazing. Now it's like, all right, nobody should beat you. And then to have that target on your back. I remember when they went. Didn't they go to Atlanta and play in the Georgia Dome? Like, they had to open up bigger.

[Bomani Jones]

I think that. I think that was later, but it was like 75,000 people or something crazy like that.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah, Like, I mean, it was. There'll never be another time like it. Because of how small the basketball world seemed at the time and how few voices there truly were. Like, we remember the rivalries with Peter Vesey and people who were reporting things. Like there was, there was an Ecosphere around that Bull team in 96 when the comeback happened and, and, and, and the championship run seemingly started that season. Because that's the other thing too. You weren't finding too many people, and this is why social media has changed things. You weren't finding too many people rooting against the greatness, right? You were like, oh, are they going to pull this off? Like Detroit people in Detroit, people in New York, obviously, right? But the whole country, like, hey, they gonna pull this shit off. Whereas I don't know what it would look like now with all the bots and all the people, you know, the think pieces, like it was just a different, There's a different feeling and a different energy back then. And 96 definitely, you know, was the start of that second three peat, that, that kind of just felt different. Like if the first one felt analog, this one felt digital, this one felt precise, this one felt, you know, like you were in surgery every single night.

[Bomani Jones]

I think a couple of things are underrated about it. One, they won 72 games when the previous record was 69. You know what I mean? Like, that's a, that's a big jump, right? Like, like the warriors could only get one win over them. Then on top of that, the next year they won 69, right? And it was like, oh, man, they were one short of getting 70 again. A 172 and 69 in back to back seasons. That is a crazy number. The rest of the team, while we talk about, you know, how they're put together, when you got dudes like Ron Harper out there and he's, he's out here part of the, part of the operation, when it's time to put on that trap. You got that boy Randy Brown out here. Randy Brown, he also got to live the life of the white man, right? Just little spunky off the, off the bench, out here guarding people, you know what I'm saying? Right? Like just go out here and play hard. They clap for him like he was a white man too. Like, he got to, he got, he got to be there. He got to live that life. Cool coach. As far as Chicago go, Chicago got a bunch of his people, peoples, you know what I'm saying? Like, everybody got to have a little bit of something. Luke, Luke Longley, that was, that was the white Luke Longley and Big Bill. Y' all had white dudes. Yeah, had white dudes for the whites.

[Jason Goff]

Had John Sally, you know, John Sally at the.

[Bomani Jones]

Sally did pop up there.

[Jason Goff]

You know what's so crazy? I thought John Sally was like in his 15th year. Like at that time, John Sally was in like years.

[Bomani Jones]

It was only like eight. Yeah, no, it's like year 12. It's like year 12, right? Hold up. I forgot about Jeb Bush. Look, yo, yo. Not a lot of, not a lot of people gave back to his own people quite like Phil Jackson did. Phil Jackson really did the best he could to come through for his particular brand of whites too.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah, the, you know, the ones that'll take that walk with you, right?

[Bomani Jones]

Well, he's called a B. Used to call them bws, right? Big white stiffs. Those are. He. He keep a couple of them around. Mark Madsen shout out to him.

[Jason Goff]

That, that whole thing too. If I think of when the Bulls. When the Bulls. The Bulls were a worldwide, global brand at that point anyway. But it seemed as if the Bulls, because obviously the Dennis Robin part and as you mentioned, the Tony Ku coach part, like people, Tony Ku coach and Dino Raja was like a big thing when they came over here because it was like, oh, look at the European dudes. And the Celtics got one, the Bulls got of the one, the Bulls. Dino Roger was cold too, right? But the Bulls got one who helped him with. He was six man of the year that year. Like the dude was a 6 foot 10 point guard at 190, 200 pounds and knocking down big shots. Everybody had forgotten about the, the Scotty Pittman, Tony Kuko stuff for that time period. Scotty never forgot and still hasn't forgotten. Right. But like people had put that to bed. Like there was a whole bunch going on with that team. Right. There's certain squads and I think Chicago has two of them. If you go back and you could just drop social media or our current conversations that we have in any time period, the 85 Bears and that 96 team going on, that would be, you know, that would be a different level of engagement because they had, like you mentioned, they had everything. They had absolutely everything. Ron Harper is one of those dudes who, you know, Gail Sayers as well. Another Chicago, like, if technology was different when people got hurt and how things would be different for them. Ron Harper and Cleveland killing folks. And then he got hurt, went to LA and people didn't see it, really. Him and Pooh Richardson in the background like, oh, look at these two guys. Ron Harper was out there like, hey, this might be the next one. In the late 80s, this might be the next one Cleveland got themselves. Cleveland, Mark Price, Brad Dougherty, Ron Harvey, like Craig Elo, Steve Kerr is on that squad. Like that, that whole thing man, like they had dudes who had roles as stars who just had to be a part of something.

[Bomani Jones]

I wish I could do a whole Ron Price, I mean, Mark Price episode.

[Jason Goff]

You can.

[Bomani Jones]

Mark Price, like we have forgotten. Mark Price was just so smart. Mark Price is first team all NBA.

[Jason Goff]

Cold.

[Bomani Jones]

Like Mark Price was cold.

[Jason Goff]

First. First dude too. And you know, people can check. Check me on this. I've talked to a few people. First cat that I remember routinely and actually made other teams implement it. Split the double team. First cat that threw the ball ahead when the double team came and split it in a way because you know, everybody's running, pick a roll, doing that kind of thing. Split the double team, knocked down the jump shot on you. Kg, my man Kendall Gill talks about all the time. Like Mark Price one of the, one of the tougher covers that. Because that stop on the dime stuff that you see now, Teardrops. All that stuff you see now, Mark Price war. Like Mark Price was that. And my Price was that dude. Absolutely. That dude, his brother was decent too. Rent Price. But yeah, like get Rod Harper. You mentioned Randy. Randy Brown. I mean they had, they had a perfect team for a perfect time. And also, you know, I mean, you can't.

[Bomani Jones]

Oh, you can't really. Yeah, you had, you had Papa Bear, Jason, Cathy.

[Jason Goff]

So Jason Caffey. That's when I knew Jason Caffey was. I remember seeing Jason Caffey in my neighborhood as a kid and being like, hey man, you don't you play for the Bulls? Look, it's Jason Caffeine, y'. All.

[Bomani Jones]

And then I realized, what are you doing here?

[Jason Goff]

Then I realized why Jason Caffrey was in the neighborhood. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm a child. But I, I think she's cool too. I think she's, I think she's outstanding over there at the end of the block. Yeah, like they, they. Dude, they have had the city, they had the town, they had the area, Chicagoland area on lock. I. There was nothing like being a Bulls fan at this time, at that time. It's kind of sad too, because I was. When I went down to Georgia, one of the first shows I did in Atlanta was like, hey man, it's been a long time since Herschel Walker wore Georgia Bulldogs helmet. You, you think at some point a place that. That wraps itself in this kind of lore of football, you'd be able to win a championship and obviously won. 98, 97, 96 is a long time ago. There's whole 25 year olds that have no clue 30 year olds have no clue about what those moments were in time. And that was the beginning of a terrific, terrific run. And also you kind of knew it was going to come to an end because of not only how much basketball they played, but how big everyone had gotten. Jerry Krause wanting his, his credit and knew, knowing that we knew Jerry Cross wanted his credit after 94, 95, you know, Phil Jackson going through those two years without Michael and then Michael coming back to show people like, hey, Phil Jackson, still a dope coach, can win championships. It was, it was like when you, when your faves grow up and still got to hang out together, but still cold at what they do, but knowing at some point the band gonna break up. Luckily it didn't break up for another two. Two years or so. But yeah, that was, that was an amazing. That's why I had to ask Ryan on the text, like are we talking 95, 96 or 96, 97. There's been so many championships in that run, you know, it was kind of tough for me. I know you understand.

[Bomani Jones]

See, there he goes, there you go, there he go. I'm gonna hit you with this last thing though, because you said something that I really hadn't thought about at the very beginning of this, which is Chicago is one of America's great cities. Right. Like it is roundly I think of. There are. You don't meet people who like I don't like Chicago. You meet people who say they don't like New York, who don't like la, don't like Miami, don't you? Don't you rarely all people say Chicago too goddamn cold. But you will rarely hear people say they don't like Chicago. But at the same time Chicago is not as. Has never been as culturally influential as these other places. But I hadn't really thought about the idea of how popping in some total Chicago was in 96. Like 96 is also the year that like between 95 and 96 we got our first real national exposure to Chicago rap, for example. Like Chicago was a thing. So I like, I was thinking about what it was like to be in Chicago at that time just in terms of the Bulls. But I hadn't really given enough thought to the idea that it's being in Chicago and a whole bunch of stuff. It got it cracked.

[Jason Goff]

Oh yeah. I mean Common obviously, you know, Twister, Crucial Conflict had they run like do or Die. Pope Pippin came out like there was, there was that that mid ninet was. Yeah. Not just in an awakening, but because you Know, at the time, I'm 16 years old, so I'm, you know, I'm living the best years of my life, watching great sports, listening to what it might be considered the golden age of my favorite music. And all these things are happening. But at the same time, like you, we had the greatest rapper playing basketball. Like, we had the greatest baseball player playing. Like we had the greatest artists playing basketball. Like, all these things. Michael Jordan was hosting Saturday Night Live, dawg. Like these. Like, Michael Jordan was all. When he was a guest on. Michael Jordan never said anything. That made me laugh, man. My daddy laughed, though. You know why? Pride. You know that, that's, that's, that's. That's from here. That's a person that does 10 miles up the road type of vibe. Yeah, man, that was, that was an amazing, amazing period of time. And it all, it all came together because cable TV and the Internet and all those things. I remember going to the computer lab, watching highlights of play plays that I had seen the night before, just because it was the Bulls, you know, guys leaving for national. Jim Durham became a national voice of basketball. He was the Mavericks guy, but he was a nationally national radio voice, and he was the Bulls guy. And when he left, I'm like, man, what's happening here? All of a sudden, Tom Doerr and Johnny Red Kerr, like, all those things. Those moments made so many stars, so many stars. Stacy King goes to Minnesota. Scott Williams goes to Philadelphia. Big money deals, too, because of those teams. 96 squad. I mean, I. There's. There's no way to explain to people outside of this city how it felt in, in the moment. And even when you go back and watch it, you remember, like, man, that was a thing that. And on top of it, like local basketball, high school basketball was a thing. So these Bulls players were showing up to, to publicly games, and it was like, yo, Jesus just walked in to watch Kevin Garnett and Farragut, right? To watch these cat. Watch these dudes play. Pat, Beverly and Marshall, like these, these cats. These cats were local superstars, even though they were the world's in a way that, you know, I don't think any other sport could, could, could translate, to be honest with you, right? Baseball is cool. We had Andre Dawson and Frank Thomas. Football, super cool. Obviously the Bears, we all fall under that umbrella. But Bulls fans had their own territory. And for the world to get the chance to see it for all those championships and especially off the comeback, man, you couldn't tell Bulls fans shit. And rightfully so, because the league was put on notice the moment he came back. And, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a great time. It was a great time. Had a lot more hair, a lot more vibes, you know what I mean? Skinnier, you know what I mean? A lot less money, a lot less bread. But, boy, you couldn't take a show.

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, babe, let's say. I'd say don't make it go dark at the end, brother. You was headed to the Al Bundy zone there off somebody else's touchdowns. You know what I'm saying? Hey, man, had to be careful, man. But look, Jason Goff. That's that boy. Check him out, man. You know where to find him. My brother, I appreciate you.

[Jason Goff]

Thank you, man. I appreciate you as always.

[Bomani Jones]

All right, man. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the Right time. We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handled everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-59-67767. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.

[Jason Goff]

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[Bomani Jones]

Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma.

[Jason Goff]

Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back. Guaranteed at no extra cost and exclusively at the UPS store US retail locations. Visit theupsstore.com airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get your gratitude there on time.