← The Right Time with Bomani Jones
The Right Time with Bomani Jones
Joel Anderson on USC-Texas, 2006 Rose Bowl: Best College Football Game Ever | 01.06
01:05:52
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time, a Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesdays this week with the homie Joel from Missouri City. Now, right fast before we, you know, you just couldn't wait.
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B
You just, just couldn't. That's my, that's my.
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A
I was, I was, I was going. Okay, all right, all right. Let, let me, let me explain something to the people right fast, and then we'll get back to what just happened. So we're doing something new. Every Tuesday will now be Time Machine Tuesdays, where we are going to look back in time in history. Could be sports history, could be regular history, could be music history. Who's to say? But on Tuesdays, we're going to give you guys a chance to kind of look back at different things, put some stuff in context. Sometimes it'll be a book. For example, our buddy Howard Bryant has a book coming out about, called Kings and Pawns, about Jackie Robinson and Paul Robeson. We'll do that as a Time Machine Tuesday, for example. So we try to, you know, try new things out. Basically, now that we gone to four days a week, it's important to be consistent in what we're doing, and this allows us to be more consistent. This also allows us some flexibility. There are also weeks where we take some vacation. Y' all might still have some content out here, you know what I'm saying? So all I'm saying is you're welcome.
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B
That's nice of you. That's nice of you to give the people more what they wanted.
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A
All I'm saying is they ain't paying no extra. You understand what I'm saying?
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B
That's why it's free. It is free.
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A
You know, somebody might, but it ain't gonna be y', all, and I'm doing it for you. Ergo, therefore, you know, that's how that goes. So that's how we doing this with Time Machine Tuesdays. Speaking of the time machine, you guys on audio did not witness what just happened, but I mentioned Joe from Missouri City, AKA Joel Anderson of the Ringer. Check him out on the Ring of Tailgate show, the blackest college football show ever paid for by white people. And that is not an exaggeration. I don't, I don't think anybody's ever paid for 2/3 black on a college football show.
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B
Did the two live students ever talk about college football?
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A
I mean, I imagine they did every now and then, but it wasn't a college football show.
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B
Yeah, that's right.
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A
You know what I'm saying? It's a little different. But anyway, I know this about Joe, and apparently it's become a thing on that show because Van Lathan and Tate Frazier are every day getting to know a little bit what we've already known for a long time, which is they only made one of this guy. Right. Anyway, Joe is adamant that he invented when one takes his palm and points it toward the sky and raises it up to indicate raising the roof.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Joel Anderson is insistent that he is the one who invented it. And now that that motion has become an antiquity and anachronism, he has now decided to reclaim it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And when you say it's Joel Dow, Joel is going to raise the roof like it's 1997.
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B
That's right. That's right. Yeah, man. I mean, things. Things that are old become new all the time. What's the problem?
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A
You're not going to. You're forcing the issue. That's what the problem is.
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B
This is the way I greet people. People know when I come on, you know that. That's what I do. That's my.
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A
That's my not. I know this is not how you greet people. And it's like.
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B
It's like a. It's like a rap.
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A
The reason I know this isn't how you just greet people all the time and how I know it's new is that when we did a live show in New York together, you definitely did not do that when I introduced you. Because I know if you had done that, they would have thrown tomatoes at you. They already threw tomatoes at you. At your long winded, convoluted explanation for how you hated all these things about Nas and then wrapped it with, but Nas is my favorite rapper.
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B
Wait, hold on. I did not say that I hated Nas.
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A
I didn't say you hated Nas, but you had a whole lot of things you didn't like about Nas and you had perplexed people, people in the front row. And then at the end you said, banas is my favorite rapper.
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B
Yeah. What? Because the thing was, I was saying is that I probably enjoy more Rick Ross albums than Nas albums. And I don't think. I don't think Rick Ross is a better rapper than Nas. I don't want to recreate that. Because, you know, the funny thing about that night is that it was one of those times. I was like, man, I really do not have the audience tonight. You know what I mean? I was just like, I'm saying things, and it just kind of. Just kind of settled over the audience. Yeah, we also.
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A
We also were getting heckled by T, man.
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B
Your boy, man. Yeah, T was out there heckling. He was heckling me.
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A
He. No, he. He was trying to heckle me, too. It all got weird when I stopped and said, nobody paid to see you, brother. But anyway, Time Machine Tuesday. We want to talk about something that happened 20 years ago this week. I believe it was 20 years ago yesterday. 20 years ago January 1st 5th, I believe, the year of our Lord 2006 at the Rose bowl, while we were still playing with the somewhat sacrilegious idea of nighttime Rose bowl games. Okay, yeah, this was the BCS championship game at the Rose bowl, but it was the last time or the last year that the BCS operated where they used the actual bowl rather than. Is the BCS championship game at the site of the Fiesta Bowl. Right. This was The Rose Bowl. January 2006, USC versus Texas. And I can't think. And we got so many things that we could set up in this, right? And there are levels. We're going to try to do this as best as we can in an hour, Right. It's the most. At least for me. And you tell me if I'm wrong. It's the most anticipated championship game that I could think of, I honestly think ever. Now, I don't have, like, the greatest memory of, say, 1986, January 1987, Fiesta bowl, for example, or some others that people could point to. But my recollection of that time, and maybe it's just because I was rooting for Texas at the time, but it was very clear to me very early in that season after Texas beat Ohio State at the Horseshoe, which is Vince Young Legend game number two out of Vince Young Legend, three Vince Young Legend games. But that's Vince Young Legend game number two. After that game, to me, it seemed very clear this is going to be Texas and USC playing for a national championship. USC playing for their third national championship in Texas. Texas college football is great. Underachiever in a number of ways. Four years or the fourth season after bringing in one of the greatest recruiting classes of all time, with Vince Young having, like, finally started to establish himself on the scene, like, this was the game that we were going to get.
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B
You probably pissed off a lot of LSU fans by saying it was their third straight national championship. They were playing for but that's fine. Yeah, yeah. But what the thing is, and I can't remember this was the. They went one and two, wire to wire. Like they started the seasons preseason one and two and ended the season is one and two. And so that, that's. That in and of itself is sort of incredible because think about how many times like a team, you know, take a loss early in the year and they play their way back up. And I think that's what. When you talked about the Ohio State game, because to your point, Texas did not really win games like that at that point in that. In the program history. Right. Like they, that was a game that you kind of. Even though they were number two, you expected them to kind of go up to Columbus and lose that.
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A
Hold on, to be fair, they didn't play games like that.
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B
Fair point. Yeah.
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A
Like, like the big non conference, like that's. That era is kind of a return to a certain like intersectional football game type of thing that you did not see. But this was a home and home Texas, Ohio State with Ohio State also at the top of their game.
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B
Right? Right. Yeah. There were number. They were number four. We're coming into that game. Right. And so yeah, it was. That game was very highly anticipated. Very similar to the one, the Texas Ohio State game this year. But yeah, I can't think of another time when I. All season it was setting up for. I was like, man, I hope they don't stumble. I hope they don't lose. Because you wanted, you wanted to see, okay, like if usc. I mean, I think the thing is that point, it was more about can USC win its third straight national championship than can Texas beat them. But it was like, if there's a team out there that can beat usc, it's probably them boys down there in Austin.
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A
Right. And the national discourse around this was absolutely USC and their run at a third national championship. By that time they have won 20 something games to start the year. I think it was in the early 30s by the time we get around to the game. But the part that I think would be interesting for younger people, like those who were not around or truly like able to grasp what was going on in that time is USC is. USA has an argument for being the program of the 1970s. Right. It's really between USC and Alabama.
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B
Right.
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A
I would say it's the two schools that we really look at is like the two dominant powers. USC to me, and I think that this is often lost. USC is what Miami was like before Miami became Miami. USC in the 1970s was that they had this incredible comparative advantage which was, you know, over the course of these decades, all these black people moved out here, right?
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B
Yes.
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A
And they moved out here and it's 12 month a year, football weather. And California is this very similar to the thing with Miami that gets lost is Miami isn't really close to anything other than Miami. Right, right. Like, it's a somewhat isolated location, all these, all these dudes out here in la. Right. And a. Of a. Of a particular ambition. Right. If you have read the Warmth of Other Suns and know anything about that first generation, the those. There's a selection bias to who the people were that decided, I'mma pack my up and go to LA and make this happen. Right. Like this is.
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B
They were basically immigrants.
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A
Yes. By say. I bristle at what people talk about, that idea of a immigrant mentality where I'm like, do you know what our people have had to do to get anywhere? Right. But like, moving, moving to California is like moving to Mars in a lot of ways when people did that. Right. These are the pro. This is the progeny of those people. And USC had access to all of them. And the school was right smack dab in the middle of the hood.
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B
Right in the hood, man. And I mean, the thing is too, is that with, with usc, so they had the comparative advantage of that they were taking black people when a lot of other schools just were not. Or black people have been like, is it okay for me to go to school here?
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A
Yes.
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B
Right. So. Because like, USC was, if. If I recall, and you tell me if I'm wrong here, USC was one of the first places that had like, nationally prominent black athletes.
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A
Yes.
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B
I mean, OJ Simpson, you know, Marcus Allen, you know, Ronnie Lott, guys like that, I don't know. And you tell me that I had a very specific visage that was like the USC black guy who was very handsome, very chiseled, and had kind of like the mini fro. It wasn't always a fro.
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A
OJ. OJ.
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B
OJ.
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A
OJ. OJ.
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B
Yeah, OJ.
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A
OJ.
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B
Oj.
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A
But OJ's a big deal in this discussion though, because OJ was that dude.
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B
OJ was the prototype. OJ was the prototype. Like, he went out there, he was, you know, I mean, I hate to say it this way, very well spoken. Right. He appealed. He. And he intentionally tried to appeal to white fans and white audiences. And so that was a. That was the archetype. And so when other guys came back out there, they were like, okay, like, we can see that we can be out here, we can thrive and we can be, you know, we can be ourselves, essentially. But they all still kind of went from the same thing, because again, when you look at Marcus Allen and these guys, it's like, oh, they look kind of the same, too.
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A
Yeah. Let me. Let me explain something to you right fast. Also, for people, when I talk about this in the context of Miami and like, having the talent. Marcus Allen went to usc.
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B
Oh, man. Yeah.
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A
As a defensive back.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. Like. Like the plan. Marcus Allen was not supposed to play running back. He was supposed to be a db. The thing was, they had Ronnie Lott, Dennis Smith. Dennis Smith, Joey Browner. Yeah, man, already. And by the way, Anthony Munoz was blocking. Shout, shout, shout out to. To. To Toa. Charles White was also a player like Heisman Trophy winner Charles White also on the roster. Like, they had all the do. They just had it. Right. And then it became a similar situation to what we saw with a few other schools that it's happened to the Big Ten. As the 70s and 80s came around when other people started getting not just black people, but also mo black people.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Then all of a sudden, you didn't have your comparative advantage anymore. And so USC was still pretty good through the 80s, but not what it was in the 70s. And then in the 90s, the wheels kind of came off.
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B
They had that one Keyshawn Johnson year. And. And this is what I also want to talk about too, because Keshan was sort of a phenomenon too. Right. Like, that was. It was again, kind of a throwback to that old LA guy that is like, nationally famous. And there's a clip of Keshan Johnson talking about his draft day party and everybody who showed up. And it's. It's like, you know, Snoop, like all these, like, you know, famous hip hop artists and. And actresses and what. Anyway, so. Yeah, but they would not. If you would. If you were looking at USC in 1994 when they played Texas Tech in the Cotton bowl, you'd be like, what's the big deal with usc? Like, you wouldn't kind of understand.
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A
It would be like the Green Bay packers were.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Until the far thing got going. Like. What do you mean? This is like.
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B
Like Magic Mowski.
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A
Yeah, yeah. But it was like they. They were like. The Yankees were like this for stretch too. Where they were like. If you were of a certain age. I don't even really understand what it is that y' all talking about. Like, USC might have been what Nebraska is now.
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B
Right.
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A
To kids like, oh, this was a thing. Oh, okay. But they wound up with this crazy coaching search where nobody wanted to take the job and they had to settle for Pete Carroll. And. And it took Pete Carroll about half a year to get it going. And then after that, it was on and popping right. They went to the Orange bowl in 2002 and just beat the doors off of Iowa and Palmer. Heisman Trophy winner Troy Palomalu was on. That was the first time I saw Troy Palamalu. And I was like, oh, my God. Right? Because they still have some guys. Because it was still USC, it was still LA. They could still get some cats. But in 2003, they split a national championship.
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B
That's right.
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A
Matt Leinert was the successor to Carson Palmer, and he was the quarterback. But Lindell White and Reggie Bush both showed up on team that already had dudes. They had dudes on defense in particular. They had dudes, dudes, dudes. And everything was different. Then you get to the 2004 season, okay, and that's the year that Matt Leinert won the Heisman Trophy. And look, they were so good that it's a Pete Carroll offense, man. So they kind of running the ball.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
Like, it wasn't anything fancy. It was like Miami. It wasn't anything fancy. Florida State was the same way. Our players are just so much better than your players. And by the way, our second team players also so much better than your first team players. And they ran through America. Only Aaron Rodgers and Marshawn lynch gave them a challenge. They went and played against the Oklahoma team in the Orange bowl that had the year before Heisman Trophy winner and a freshman, Adrian Peterson, who ran for like 1900 yards. And brother, it didn't matter. They beat the dog out of them.
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B
They broke that addition of Oklahoma. Like, Oklahoma was really good for those years after because, you know, we thought.
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A
The 03 Oklahoma team at points was the best college football team of all time.
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B
I. I definitely thought that, and I didn't think it. I was right there at that.
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A
You were there when they beat 6aM.
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B
77 to nothing when they beat Texas A. But then I was at the Big 12 championship game in Kansas when they lost to Kansas State and they lost 35 to 7. And it was like, what the fuck just happened here? But up until then, and then I was just like, that must be a mulligan. They can. They're. They're still going to be the national champion. And they went down New Orleans and the Sugar bowl and lost to lsu. And that was the Half champion. You know, they split the championship of USC that year, so.
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A
Yeah, but usc ran through that 04 season.
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B
Yeah, man. And look at these scores.
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A
Yeah.
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B
49. Oh, 4210.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And look, they had some close games, right, because they were still a really young team. But the big thing is they came back the next year and they were the biggest deal in sports.
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B
Oh, my God.
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A
Like. Like the idea that they could win a third national championship, that Matt Leinert, they told us that he would be the number one pick. Clearly, he would not, because he came back to school. He came back and then Reggie Bush, I can't explain to you. Like, Reggie Bush, to me is maybe the last guy. I feel like, you tell me if I'm wrong here. All his fame is as a result of being a college football player. I think there's like, a Kardashian element of fame that maybe adds to that. But his athletic fame is because of what a big deal Reggie Bush was at usc. Nothing he did as an NFL player made him more famous than he was walking into the league.
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B
Was the Kardashian moment at USC or a little bit after?
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A
No, it was after, but I think the fact that that was even possible.
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B
Right? Yeah, right. Because it was not that far on the board.
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A
Look, he was the famous one, right when that started. Like, she. She got more fame off of him than at first. At least that he got off of her as a result of that. But I don't think it's possible for a football team or a football player to be as famous as USC was in 05 and as Reggie Bush was in particular. Like, we don't care about coaches as much as we used to care about coaches. We don't care about players.
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B
No, man.
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A
As much as we used to care about players. Like, none of that lands like it did then.
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B
Do you think Jaden Daniels is anywh near as famous as Reggie Bush or Fernando Mendoza? Like, none of those guys, right? Like, maybe the last Heisman that resonated, that Ran guy was like, Manzel, right? Yes, maybe. Well, no.
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A
Well, James Winston. James Winston got really famous and then it got weird.
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B
That's right. That's right. That's right.
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A
Like, even Baker Mayfield, I don't feel like, got this kind. I don't think Joe Burrow. No. To be the kind of famous that we're talking about with Reggie Bush. Reggie Bush was famous like that before the Heisman.
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B
Oh, man. I mean, there were people that did not follow college football who knew who Reggie Bush was.
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A
Man, yeah. And guess what? Your girl was on that list.
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B
Hey, man, he was very handsome guy, man.
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A
It was. But it was a whole nother thing. And he was unreal to watch, right? He was un.
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B
He electric.
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A
I make the argument that Reggie Bush was so unreal that it hurt him in the NFL. He would have been better if he was a little bit worse because he was capable of doing those unreal things in college, them Techmo bowl runs where you start one side of the go all the way around to get back. And the league. The league wasn't ready for that. It took him a long time to figure out that he couldn't do those things anymore.
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B
This is going to probably go back to people calling me a hater, but I remember when he was going into the league, I was like, I just don't see the number two running back. I just don't see the number two pick because he's not going to be able to outrun people like that in the NFL. Yeah, yeah, you said. I was. I was. Because at the time, it was like, the Texans take Reggie Bush number one with the draft pick, right? And they. It was like, I think they took Mario Williams that year instead. But I was like, man, look, the thing that the Texans should do is not worry about no damn Reggie Bush. Try to tank again next year and get Adrian Peterson, who I thought was the running back that they should take early in the draft. But yeah, I thought Reggie Bush, again, electric. I kind of compared him to, like, it's not even fair to compare him to Eric Metcalf, because Eric Metcalf wasn't what Reggie Bush was. But it was like that same kind of like jitterbug style. And I was like, that stuff that has a limit in the NFL.
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A
But the thing about Reggie, though, is that. So he was not a jitter bug to me, right? He was a wide receiver playing running back, right? So, like, Eric Metcalf was smaller, right? Like, I think if it was being more shifty, I put Percy Harvin a bit more in that category. Octave Tavon Austin. Tavon Austin, you know, is another guy that we've. Dexter McCluster. Like, there's a. There's a whole bunch of those guys that you just put all over the place. Like, I think that Reggie Bush and Percy Harvin and a bunch of those guys would be much better now. Now that there's a different kind of creativity. Like, can you imagine somebody using Percy Harvin like, they use Debo Samuel Percy Harvard was a really good NFL Player. But the league had not quite caught up to what made them so dangerous.
- [20:17]
B
Right. Putting them in space, that kind of stuff. Yeah, right.
- [20:20]
A
Reggie Bush had like a wide receiver build. And then like when you split him out wide, what made him so scary was that he really did look like a wide receiver.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
You know, when he was doing it. But there I, I, they ain't really been one of those since that one, man. That one, that, that one right there. The Fresno State game, that was so wild because I don't know. Did you watch that game live?
- [20:43]
B
Oh, hell yeah. I remember watching it that night.
- [20:45]
A
And so what was so wild about it was if you were on the east coast, this game was like, like a 7 o' clock Pacific kick. And this was back where college football was what I really wrote about. So I would just be up all night on Saturdays and you had to flip through one of the Fox, the regional Fox Sports to get it. Now never mind the fact that a sign of things to come was that USC had to play so hard in order to beat Fre.
- [21:06]
B
Oh, they needed every bit of Reggie Bush's amazing night that night to pull them off. They gave up 42 points to Fresno State in that game. And this is David Carr. This isn't David Carr, Fresno State.
- [21:17]
A
Right, but see, and that was the thing that had happened with USC is that they had gotten so big, but what made them so good in 04 was the Pete Carroll of it all, which was they were playing defense. Right. That 05 defense was really young. It, it is the beginning of the 08 defense, which might be the best college football defense that I have ever seen. But the magnitude of what USC was, was so giant through that whole year that the whole story was, can they three pe? Can they three pe? And if you have watched the 30 for 30 audit that was clearly produced by USC guys and they just act like Texas was like, like some three A team from across the state that they heard about had this one really good dude on it, you know, like, except I mentioned it in like leading up to this and talking about the fact that Texas in 02 had a recruiting class that had like six five star dudes. They didn't all make it to the yard. But that's not the point. They brought in a bunch of dudes and had consistently been bringing in a bunch of dudes that hadn't even won a conference championship. But the year before they only lost one game. They won the Rose bowl in Vince Young, Rose bowl number one. That is the first of the Legendary Vince Young games. Yep. Was that one. They brought not everybody back the next year. Right. Like, they didn't bring back Cedric Benson, they didn't bring back Derrick Johnson. But Texas had a roster where I want to say four of the five offensive linemen went to the league. Tight end goes to the league. Jamal Charles is third string running back. Four string running back was Henry Melton who turned into a Pro bowl defensive lineman.
- [22:51]
B
Yeah, right.
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A
And he was, by the way, 270 pounds, playing running back and had double digit touchdowns in the course of that season. They also had a dude named Ramos Taylor that nobody remembers because he knuckleheaded his way off the yard. But he was a beast. Fast. He was fast. He had like 15 touchdowns that year in total. Like they were. They were loaded. Then on defense, three of the four starting defensive linemen were NFL guys. The linebacker core wasn't hitting on nothing. But Aaron Ross, who wound up to have a very good NFL career and was the Thorpe award winner in 2006, was the Nickelback.
- [23:26]
B
Yep.
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A
In 2005.
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B
Right. They had the Griffin boys. They had Huff. Yeah. Terrell Brown. Yeah, man, I forgot about Terrell Brown, man, he was so cold. Yeah, man, they had, they had kind of everything that they needed, man. Like. And was. Was Rod Wright.
- [23:43]
A
Rod Wright was on that team.
- [23:44]
B
Yeah, Rod Wright was on that team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, it was.
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A
It's literally one of the greatest college football teams of all time.
- [23:51]
B
Yeah.
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A
Like they went through that season. The only games they played that were within single digits were the game at Ohio State and the Rose Bowl.
- [24:01]
B
That's right.
- [24:01]
A
Every other game they blew every. They won the Big 12 championship, 70 to 3. And they stopped trying after the third quarter.
- [24:09]
B
Man, somebody got to ask Joel Clatt about that day. I don't ever see Joel Cl. Talk about what happened that day. But I mean, yeah, man, they looked like. I mean it. They. I mean, they're clearly the best Texas team of all time, right?
- [24:21]
A
Yes.
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B
But I, it, it was just sort of unreal because if you had grown up in Texas and Texas was always letting people down in the big game and it was like they got a little bit of talent, but they would never show out like that. They were never that kind of dominant. And so for them, for them to be as good as they were at that time, it was almost sort of surreal. It's like, this can't be the Texas Longhorns and I've been following my whole life.
- [24:43]
A
Well, there's the other level too, which is the historical importance of Mack Brown, in the history of Texas football is he finally was able, I would say, to fully integrate the program. Yeah, right. Like nobody. The SWC was a race of teams to be the last one to integrate. They all knew that they had to do it, and they all wanted to be the last one. And no school has ever been quite as good on top to bottom as coming up with new ways to keep black people out, figuring out ways to toss us out after we get there.
- [25:18]
B
I mean, again, University of Texas came up with the idea of standardized testing.
- [25:22]
A
Hold on. They opened the law school at Texas Southern so that they wouldn't have to let no black people into the law school at Texas. Like this is. They were dedicated to this fact now because Nobody likes John McAvick. He doesn't get enough credit for this, but he also helped to begin this. But the difference was McAvic had to overcome it. Right?
- [25:41]
B
Right.
- [25:42]
A
Mac, it feels like, was the first guy to actually overcome the idea that, like, you don't really want to go to that racist ass school, man. I mean, the idea that Texas A M had overcome. Yeah, because. Because the reason is very simple. Texas A and M didn't have the luxury that Texas felt like they had about this. So A M had to do stuff like hire Jackie Cheryl.
- [26:02]
B
Right. I was gonna say the Jackie Cheryl of it all is what really, you know.
- [26:05]
A
Yes, but the fact that they were willing to do it.
- [26:08]
B
Yeah, right, right.
- [26:09]
A
Look, those guys in that town were coming in being like, look, if you go hire me, this is gonna happen, right? Like. Like, if you're not. If you're not with this, then, you know, we not gonna do this. But they had finally overcome a bunch of that. Now, Mack, not a great coach, right? Like, you know, after the whistle blows, not a great coach. We all understand this, but they had dudes. And I mentioned that because after, you know, coming up after the break, we're gonna get to what this episode is really about. Because we have give you all the background. We have given you everything except talking about the dude that matters the most. And that is the man who put up quite possibly the greatest performance in the history of college football at that Rose Bowl. But do you really understand the importance of Vince Young going into it? This is where those of us from Houston will try to help you out. Every Friday from 6 to 7:30, it's NBA happy hour on FanDuel. Your pregame for the weekend. We're talking limited time specials you won't want to miss. Boosts, bonuses, surprises, all dropping in the app during Happy hour. So before tip off check the FanDuel app to see the week special. Then make your move before the shot clock expires at 7:30 Eastern. It's the perfect way to start your weekend. A little basketball, a little action and a whole lot of Friday energy. That's NBA Happy hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern only on FanDuel. Official sportsbook partner of the NBA 21.
- [27:40]
B
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- [28:30]
A
All right, we are back with Joel Anderson talking about the well, it's the Vince Young game and now we can go ahead and start calling it what it is at this point, which is the Vince Young game, which was this close to being the Lindell White game. But we'll talk about that in a second. Now, the significance of Vince Young in this game or the mere fact that he is even there. Okay, I will go chronologically because Joel Anderson went to the Astrodome one day and saw Vince Young and Courtney Lewis playing for Madison. And I will let you just go from there.
- [28:57]
B
Yeah. So anyway, at this time I was working in Dallas as the Associated Press as high school football writer. So I covered football all across the state, but I just didn't, you know, I didn't get a chance to go watch games. I had to just take games in across the state and put together sort of a digest. So anyway, my pops, he was like going, he's the kind of guy that goes to high school football games.
- [29:18]
A
We do that.
- [29:19]
B
We do that. Yeah. And I would be that guy too. And especially I will when I get the time again. But my pops would go and he's like, hey man, you gotta come down here and see this boy for Madison. He's, he's, he's, he's unreal. And like, let me explain. So Houston, Madison is a, has always at the Time. They always had like a really solid football program, but never like a state title competitive program. But they beat on that run. I think they beat North Shore, I think they beat Katy, and they beat a couple of other schools.
- [29:48]
A
North Shore, really big black people school. Katy at that time, really big white people school.
- [29:53]
B
Andy Dalton came from Katie, right? Yeah. And so they beat him. I was like, well, he must be the real deal. And I'm covering college football, I'm covering high school football, but still don't have really a sense for how good Vince Young is. So we go to the Astrodome and we see them playing the 5A state semifinal against Austin Westlake. Austin Westlake is Drew Brees alma mater. And I'm trying to. I can't remember the name of the quarterback, but they had some guy, Trash Schrader I think was where a quarterback that year and he went to college. So anyway, we go there, the Astrodome, the lower bowl is filled, you know, brothers on this side, Austin Westlake on that side.
- [30:26]
A
Drew Brees went to Austin Westlake, by the way. And if you need some help, if you are from Atlanta and you are familiar with Atlanta Westlake is the exact opposite.
- [30:38]
B
It's not the same thing.
- [30:39]
A
And if you are not, and if you need me to help you with a little bit more of that, the two people that went to Atlanta Westlake that I could tell you guys about, that'll help paint the picture for you are Cam Newton and Pac Man Jones.
- [30:48]
B
Pac man Jones? Yeah.
- [30:49]
A
Man 2 Breeze went to Austin Westlake.
- [30:52]
B
Not quite the same Westlake. Yeah, not quite Austin Westlake. They call Austin Westlake Austin, but it's not even in Austin isd. Like it's.
- [30:59]
A
Yeah, it's kinda like Highland park, right?
- [31:01]
B
Yeah. It's got its own little school district off the cause.
- [31:03]
A
Nobody segregates like Texas.
- [31:06]
B
Texas can do it, can do it. They can figure it out another way, man. And look, man, Madison was a pretty good football team, but if Vince Young could have played 10 more snaps on defense, they win that game. Okay? But I had never seen anything like this. Like, Vince Young is like they could not tackle the boy. Like, he's moving his way and he's not like he's running away from people. He's just like, you know, finessing his way down the field just like he had. I mean, he was just so smooth. He was throwing bombs on a dime like it was unreal. I had never seen a high school quarterback look like this. And the crowd was just with him, man. Like the south side of Houston was with this boy, like, we all, like, on the side. Like, I didn't root for Madison, but I'm like, bro, like, how can you not get behind Vince Young? This dude is amazing. And so they lost that game mostly because, again, he couldn't play a few more plays. But they lost by, like, one score in this game. And it. When. When Madison walked off the field that day, our side of the stadium stood up and gave them. Gave them a standing ovation, man, because it was that, like, that was how good Vince was that game. And so. And so after that, I'm like, well, he's going to Miami. Like, that was like the school that he was supposed to be going to. Like, Miami was the school that was in the lead form. And, like, it makes sense. And then all of a sudden they say, he's going to Texas. And I'm. And you tell me, bro, I'm like, texas? That don't sound like the place that eventually I don't go to school. The south side of Houston did not go to no University of Texas at that time.
- [32:36]
A
Keep this in mind. He's the third black quarterback that Texas ever had.
- [32:42]
B
It's sad that we can name this.
- [32:44]
A
By the way, what's my man's. What's my man's name? Number one, Donnie Little.
- [32:47]
B
Donnie Little.
- [32:47]
A
Donnie Little.
- [32:48]
B
And I'm related to him through marriage, believe it or not.
- [32:50]
A
Did not know that. And then James Brown. James Brown. The great. The great James Brown.
- [32:57]
B
The great James Brown. And look, man, when they wrote about James Brown in the 90s. But you should go look at some of the Sports Illustrated stories about what people told him about going to school there and what it meant for James Brown to be the quarterback at University of Texas then. Because it's like 1997.
- [33:10]
A
94 was when he went.
- [33:11]
B
Yeah, 94 is when he went. And then I think he played through 98. 97.
- [33:16]
A
94 through 97. And then Major got the job in 98.
- [33:19]
B
Yeah, and it was just like the way they talked, like, he was a real live, legit pioneer, bro. Like it was. Yeah, yeah. Like the way they talked about him is like the people that. That. That entered through desegregation or whatever, like, it was like that. It was that big a deal for James Brown to be there. So for Vince Young to want to go there and follow that sort of legacy, it was kind of like, what you on, man? How much that money are you? Like, how much did they give you? Why are you going there?
- [33:45]
A
And look, Jonathan, it was a bumpy Road. Right. Because look, they red shirted him the first year, which, based on what we saw the next two years, was an absolute necessary decision to be made. Right. Like he. But there was something about him. And I think you pointed it out because he got the job in the middle of his freshman year. And he didn't ever feel like he was running by guys, but it felt like nobody could catch him. Right. This was not watching Michael Vick.
- [34:11]
B
No.
- [34:11]
A
Right. This is. This is not even Tommy Frazier in that way, but he was Giant. There was that part. He got this funny little shot put motion. Like none of it seemed to make sense, but you couldn't do nothing with them. But teams could do just enough. And so there were some big wins. Like they won a game at Nebraska in 03. That was a big one. There was some ups and downs off the bench. 04, middle of 04, they lose to Oklahoma, 12 to nothing. And that 12 may as well have been 75. They were never in the game. Adrian Peterson ran for 214 of the most excruciating yards.
- [34:48]
B
All in between the 20s.
- [34:50]
A
All between the 20s. But there was nothing anybody could do. And Vince was bad. And the thought was that Mac and Greg Davis are trying too hard to shoehorn Vince into an offense that did not fit. And so legendarily, he comes and says, after that, you got to just let me be me. And everything changed, including a game where they were down at home, I want to say, 35 to 7, to Oklahoma State. And then they came back and won that game by like three touchdowns or something like that.
- [35:16]
B
They almost lost to Kansas the next.
- [35:18]
A
They almost lost to Kansas. And they won only because of the most. The worst pass interference call that I have ever seen. And when Mark B. Mark Mangino comes in the press conference and basically accuses the Big 12 of fixing the game, no one could make a compelling argument that he was wrong.
- [35:37]
B
Yeah, it was kind of like, all right, they got that one, though.
- [35:39]
A
Yeah, it was so bad. It was so bad. It was so bad. But that led to Vince dominating Michigan, where he had like 199 yards and four touchdowns rushing.
- [35:48]
B
Right, right.
- [35:49]
A
Dominant performance in that game. And then comes next year where the game against Ohio State, where A.J. hawk in that same game, I want to say, had 10 tackles, a second and interception. It was really like a game between those two when they were on the field. Ohio State would have won the game except Jim Trestle was trying to prove a point to Troy Smith and did not play him nearly enough at that expense. Whatever it was, though, from there, Texas walked, marched through the whole year. Vince's second place in the Heisman. Very offended that Reggie Bush won the Heisman. Everybody in the building knew that Reggie Bush was going to win that Heisman, apparently, except for Vince Young.
- [36:23]
B
It's funny because you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me because I don't. I don't think that Vince would have done what Diego Pavia did, but it was one of the few times that I could remember the runner up being like, damn, that's my trophy.
- [36:36]
A
Yes.
- [36:36]
B
You know, I'm supposed, like, usually it's just kind of like you kind of accept and you understand that. That especially Reggie Bush. Like, Reggie was the most famous.
- [36:44]
A
Except we have walked through our entire schedule, right? And if you want to be honest, look who I'm throwing to.
- [36:53]
B
Yeah, man.
- [36:54]
A
Right. Like my best receiver is my tight end, right?
- [36:57]
B
The Dave Thomas.
- [36:58]
A
David Thomas was the tight end. Lyman Swede was the number two receiver. Don't ask Steelers fans about that one. Right? Like, that. That was not it. I think lman Swede got a lot for looking like Roy Williams while wearing the number four fair point wide receiver for Texas. I think he just look like Roy Williams. Some people just acted like he was Roy Williams.
- [37:18]
B
Very physically impressive.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah, but he looked exactly like Roy Williams in the uniform. Like, they had the same face, mask and shield. They wore the same number. They had like the same build. It was the whole nine.
- [37:29]
B
Yeah, man.
- [37:30]
A
That was as close as it got.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
Qu.
- [37:32]
B
And Quan Cosby was, I guess maybe that time, and he was like, I mean, five. Yeah, he was 25. He had played baseball, came back. He was a great athlete, really good athlete. But like, that's not. That's not the number one receiver for a college champion. You know what I mean?
- [37:46]
A
No, no, no, no, it wasn't. But then this game comes and the Heisman Trophy thing certainly had to be a part of it, right. The other part of it was, I think Texas was just a little bit more talented. Definitely not better coached, Right? No, Gene. Gene Chisak on the defense, Greg Davis on the offense. Matt Brown with the final call on everything, bro.
- [38:08]
B
I mean, do you have you looked at the coaching staff for that USC team, right? Like, Ed Orgeron is on that team.
- [38:15]
A
Steve Sarkeesian.
- [38:16]
B
Yeah, like, I mean, they had some dudes on that staff, man.
- [38:20]
A
Yeah. No, no, no, no. Northchild was not there that year.
- [38:26]
B
Oh, that's right. That's right. He had gone to the.
- [38:27]
A
No, no, no, you're right. He was there that year. And then he went to the Titans thinking that he was going to get to coach Matt Lert it. Instead, he had to coach Vince.
- [38:37]
B
Yeah, man, that's not. That wasn't his bag. That's not who he wanted.
- [38:41]
A
No, no, no, no, no. That was. That was a. That was a tough go, man. Like, to be. I don't really want to get into some of the things. Some of the assumptions that I've made about what made it so difficult, but it was. It was a. It was a tough go, man.
- [38:56]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, man. I mean, I. We can.
- [38:58]
A
No, no. By the way, no, Norm was gone by then. Lane was the. Lane. Lane. Lane was the offensive coordinator, man.
- [39:06]
B
That's. Okay. So. That's right. I'm looking at it right here, man. Ken Norton Jr. On that stuff, man. Ken Norton junior's been running. He's just been basically having the same jobs for the last 20 years.
- [39:15]
A
That is correct.
- [39:16]
B
But. Yeah, yeah, man. So they had. I mean, USC had a decisive coaching advantage. They had a great offense. But again, the thing that nobody ever paid attention to going back to it is like in that Fresno State game, man, a Fresno State team that did not have, like, any stars. Like, this is not, you know, even Trent Dilfer, Fresno State, like, they just put up numbers on them. And so people kind of overlooked, like, oh, like, you can. They can be had on defense. You could do.
- [39:42]
A
Yeah, but see, to me, it was. Was obvious in part because I think we overestimated how good that Notre Dame team was. But the fact that Notre Dame had them until they had to cheat to win that game.
- [39:51]
B
Oh, the Bush at the end with.
- [39:52]
A
The Bush push, that was another game. The magnitude of which I don't know if a college football game can quite replicate in this day and age, because Notre Dame was just getting back. Charlie Weiss made so much money off of losing that game.
- [40:04]
B
Oh, man, it really did. That's that. That game float. I mean, look, man, do you think his son. Do you think his son will be an offensive coordinator for Ole Miss if. If they.
- [40:13]
A
Oh, man, they let all kinds of coaches. Sons.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah.
- [40:16]
A
Navigate through all kinds of things. You know what I mean? But, you know, I get your point, though. I want to be clear about that. I don't wanna. I don't want you to think that I'm out here being difficult. But the game starts and Lindell White, who had what, like 180 something yards and two touchdowns.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah, he bullied them.
- [40:32]
A
No, it was 124 yards and three touchdowns. That's what it was on 20 carries. He looked unstoppable in that game. Put a pin in that point. But Texas ran off to a lead like they were up 16 to 7 with two minutes left in the first half.
- [40:47]
B
Well, you know, the thing that I, that I think that. That people overlook too, is that we talked about how USC's defense wasn't great. Texas defense was actually great, man. They stopped. They stopped Matt Leiner. So Texas. It's funny you said that because they went into. They went into halftime with the lead, but early on in the game, it looked like USC was. It. Like they were really close to pulling away. Like, they were up 7, 0. They in that, like in deep in Texas territory. And Texas stops Matt Leiner on 4th and 1, right? Like that's a big momentum change. Then USC is up again, seven, three. They're driving. They're going down here. And Michael Griffin comes from across the field to intercept Matt Leiner all time, great play. And also, it doesn't. Because the first, like, he doesn't even act like he caught the ball. Like it was like, oh, I stepped out of bounds or something. But if you look at the. They look at the replay and they're like, oh, shit, he got that ball. So the defense held up just enough to get the offense going, you know.
- [41:42]
A
Yeah. And by the way, it was the worst game the defense played all year long.
- [41:46]
B
Yeah.
- [41:47]
A
Like, there's no question about that. But second half, usc. Okay, Right. Like this is when it starts. Because, I mean, Tech, if you treated Texas like an underdog, right? Which most people did going into the game, the second half, Lindell White comes out. They march down the field, score, quits, touchdown, another. Lindell's like, oh, okay, now things are coming back. Now things are getting back that way. Nope, here comes Vince again. Let me, let me, let me go get a touchdown. Right fast on them. Boys did that. But then you come back around, basically, same thing happened, right? Like now we're going score for score, possession for possession, which is basically how it went for the rest of the game, right?
- [42:26]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. USC scores. UT scores. I mean, I kind of. I remember it's like getting deep into the fourth quarter and then USC goes up, like by two scores. I think they went up like 38 to 20.
- [42:38]
A
38 to 26.
- [42:40]
B
That's right. And it's like we're more than halfway through the fourth quarter at this point, and so you're like, okay, USC's got them. They finally pulled ahead. Texas is not going to be able to run off enough points and enough time to win that game. And like, they. Nobody told Vince Young that. You know what I mean?
- [42:57]
A
Cause understand this, Reggie Bush did not have a great game, but I want to say he had something like 160 yards from scrimmage or something like that. It was something like 80 yards rushing, 80 yards receiving.
- [43:07]
B
Yeah.
- [43:08]
A
Lindell White, though, like, there's. As a football fan, you know how it goes, man. We can't stop that guy from running the ball. Is the worst feeling in the world. So you're up two scores, and you can't stop that guy from running the ball. In particular, a running back that runs like. Lindell White rams between the tackles, hard running, like he had the dark shield on. Like, it was like, hey, man, very.
- [43:33]
B
Much the thunder to the lightning, you.
- [43:35]
A
Know, like, you don't want these problems with this dude. So you're down two scores.
- [43:41]
B
Yeah.
- [43:42]
A
You're not. You're not winning that game. That's how that seems. Except. Nope. Vince. Eight plays, 69 yards, 2 minutes, 39 seconds. March down the field, runs for another touchdown. And now USC is moving down the field again. And look, we're getting to about two minutes left in the game. Fourth and two again. Lindell White cannot be stopped. Pete did not put Reggie Bush on the field for that play. I don't think that's as big a deal as people make it out to be. Because the thought is, well, you would have to worry about Reggie Bush. No, you didn't. Right. Like. Like the ball was going to Lindell White. It was just going to be. If they could move enough furniture. And Michael Huff was not supposed to come on the play, Right. He was not supposed to. He was not supposed to blitz. He decided to blitz anyway.
- [44:30]
B
Yeah, man, that's great. Players do, man.
- [44:31]
A
Good thing he did.
- [44:32]
B
Yeah. Great players do. Make some.
- [44:33]
A
Yeah. Cause that was the stop.
- [44:35]
B
You got to follow your. A great player, following their instincts. And that sort of a moment, like, that's what makes you a great player. You know what I mean?
- [44:41]
A
Let me tell you, that was the stop. And I knew right then and there, watching that game, I was like, national championship is on the way.
- [44:48]
B
Oh, everybody knew because I felt like when. So Texas just runs off the field. They're hype. And the camera goes to Vince Young, putting on his helmet, getting ready to walk up to the field, and I'm like, oh, shit, here we go.
- [44:58]
A
Yeah, it's over.
- [44:59]
B
Can you just slow down for a second? You know, I was rooting for Texas in this game.
- [45:05]
A
How could you not?
- [45:06]
B
Yeah, I was. I was a huge. Like, I mean, I.
- [45:08]
A
This is how much Joel hates Texas, just to be clear.
- [45:11]
B
I hate Texas, man. I just. There's nothing about the school that I like. I have friends that went to school there. I've had good times at the University of Texas campus. It's all good. But I just. What they stand for and all that shit, I'm not into it. But Vince Young is such an irresistible figure to me, man. And so when he had my. When he comes onto the field and I'm just like, oh, yeah, I already know what's about to happen, bro. We all know, you know, we all know they set it up for that, brother.
- [45:34]
A
What was it? Was it fourth and. It was fourth and five, fourth and five, fourth and five at the nine yard line. And I was just like, listen, I had no nerves about what was going to happen. I was like, maybe it'll be a first down, maybe it'll be a touchdown. But what it ain't about to be is a loss, man.
- [45:51]
B
Is that the most, like, the most confident you've ever felt about a fourth and five in your life?
- [45:57]
A
Yeah.
- [45:58]
B
Yeah.
- [45:59]
A
The second. So he drops back.
- [46:01]
B
Yeah.
- [46:01]
A
And he runs or runs around to the right. Yeah. And the second he started running, I was like, well, what I know is this, whoever is going to be there to try to stop him is not going to be capable of taking his horse down. No, like, and we have not said it explicitly, Vince young is like 6, 5, 2, 40.
- [46:18]
B
Yeah, man. Big, big, big, big.
- [46:21]
A
Like, once it went around to the right, knew that wasn't going down. And we can't get you so close here, but that's what. That's what's going on right here.
- [46:28]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [46:29]
A
Is that. That is Vince Young. There's one guy standing up and there's one guy on his back, like, that was it.
- [46:38]
B
I just remember running into that end zone and like, everybody coming to him, man, it was like, damn, bro. He really.
- [46:45]
A
He did that again.
- [46:46]
B
He did that.
- [46:46]
A
He didn't carry bums.
- [46:48]
B
No, man.
- [46:49]
A
He carried an incredibly talented roster, but he did carry them.
- [46:55]
B
That. See that? And that's the thing that is crazy to me because again, there's very few players that, like, you feel like their swag or like their confidence, like, really bolsters everybody else. But that's the thing about Vince Young that I even noticed in high school. It was just like whenever he came on the field and he had very much a lot of reason to believe nobody can stop me from doing What I want to do, man.
- [47:16]
A
Right.
- [47:16]
B
You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna do what I want to do.
- [47:17]
A
It ain't happened yet.
- [47:18]
B
Yeah, right. It ain't happened. Nobody has stopped me, so I'm gonna be fine. And so, like, that's the thing that Texas had not had and really has not ever had since. I mean, Colt McCoy was a very. A great college quarterback, but he was not Vince Young. And it was just like, yo, when you, when, when Vince Young came onto the field, when Vince Young did his thing, it was just like, oh, we're going to be okay because Vince got it handled. You know what I mean? All we got to do is do our part. We got to get the Michael Huffs to make a big play. We got to get the Cedric Griffins to make a big play. We got to get Reggie Bush to do a crazy ass pitch, you know what I mean? In the middle of. Oh, I forgot, we didn't talk about that. You know what I'm saying?
- [47:53]
A
I always say. They always say that the Heisman people took that trophy back from Reggie. Nah, Reggie threw that bitch on the field. Reggie threw that down, that wild lateral. I don't know, like in this day and age, we would have to ask sincerely if he was shaving points.
- [48:12]
B
Have you watched that play recently?
- [48:14]
A
I have not.
- [48:15]
B
Okay, so I was watching a little bit of the game the other night and I. My recollection of the play from that time was that Reggie Bush was sort of in the open field. One guy got up to him and he kind of pitched it.
- [48:27]
A
No, he was in traffic.
- [48:29]
B
He was in traffic and gave it to somebody. I was like, dog, what, what are you doing?
- [48:34]
A
Like, there were, there were hands on him when he did that.
- [48:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. I was like, bro, that is, it's the crazy. Because he's never done anything crazy like that before in his career before. Right. Like, I'd never seen him like do that all of a sudden. And actually it was the, it was only the second crazy pitch that happened in that game too. Because remember, if you ut's first play came on a pitch like that from Vince to Sylvan Young, you know.
- [48:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, they got that one play. The USC people could play it about where Vince's knee was down. He pitched it to Selvin.
- [49:05]
B
Yeah, I mean, they were probably. I mean, that's the game, man.
- [49:09]
A
It's the error term, right?
- [49:10]
B
Yeah, right.
- [49:11]
A
The error term is going to capture some of the noise into function. But now this is it. This was the first national championship that Texas had won. It had been so long that they had never won a national championship with a black player.
- [49:23]
B
That's right. Oh, man. Yeah.
- [49:25]
A
It literally been that long. The most memorable postseason event that Texas had had was getting destroyed by Miami. That was something else. We could have done a time machine Tuesday on was. Was that. That game is. I might find a way just to do that during the summer, just. Just for the hell of it.
- [49:48]
B
I mean, look, bro, because this all goes back to the historical piece of it, because that Miami game, just without getting too deep into it, it was like Miami had the brothers, man, in Texas. They had an offensive tackle named Stan Thomas who was talking shit. He called them thugs and all this other stuff, and it was just like, he. I don't know why he thought it was a good idea to get them boys amped up before the game, but he did it, and it got off.
- [50:11]
A
Have you read Bruce Feldman's book, Kane Mutiny?
- [50:13]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [50:15]
A
And so the best part of that is the Miami players were on orders to behave themselves.
- [50:23]
B
Oh, my God.
- [50:23]
A
Yes. And Dennis Erickson had told everybody and promised everyone that they were going to take care of themselves. And then Michael Irvin started calling the dudes at the hotel in the morning and basically said, man, get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. And on the opening kickoff, Robert Bailey ran down the field and knocked the returner on Chris Samuels.
- [50:48]
B
Knocked Chris Samuels out.
- [50:49]
A
And it all went downhill. Miami won the game 46 to 3, with over 200 yards of penalties.
- [50:56]
B
The funny thing that I read about that is that the next year, the NCAA puts together, like, a list of infections. The tape. Right. Infections. Like, you can't do this. You can't do this at a game. Game. And like, it was basically a Miami Hurricanes highlight film. Yes.
- [51:09]
A
It was all. It was the cow game.
- [51:11]
B
Yeah.
- [51:11]
A
And it was that one. Like, they. I can look back on it now as an adult and be like, okay, you boys are wild. This was a little much, but it was Texas that was on the business end of it, figuratively as much as they were, literally. And now Houston's own.
- [51:32]
B
Houston's own. South side.
- [51:34]
A
South side. Clark's own. I remember my uncle had passed away right around then. And so the funeral was a few days after the Rose Bowl. And my uncle, who lives in another uncle who lives in Hiram Clark, was at the house, and I was like, so y' all still jamming down there? He's like, oh, you talking about Vince? This is not. This is not a man that'd be rooting for the University of Houston, dog. Man, Vince. Vince was doing it for. Vince was doing it for a lot of people.
- [51:59]
B
Oh, bro, it really. I mean, man, that guy. I mean, that's the thing. It's why Texas holds on to him so tightly, you know, I mean, because Vince is not, you know, look, he.
- [52:08]
A
He. He can be. He can make it challenging.
- [52:10]
B
He can make a challenge. And Vince has had, you know, I think things seem to be going a little bit better now, but there was a time when he had to separate himself from the program or the program separated themselves from him for a moment, but they brought. Welcomed him back. But, like, that is how much Vince means to that program, man. Like, he. I mean, look, you had a dude like me to root for Texas, man. You had brothers, like people that would never consider that school. Like, never thought that we had any sort of kinship or any place on that campus. And Vince Young made us feel like we were part of that fan group for a little bit, man.
- [52:42]
A
Hey, man, that program has Earl Campbell, Heisman Trophy winner.
- [52:48]
B
Yeah.
- [52:51]
A
Ricky Williams, Heisman Trophy winner. And they are playing for second.
- [52:57]
B
Yeah.
- [52:57]
A
The most important player in the history of that program, man, is Vince Woo.
- [53:02]
B
Oh, man, you so, man, you got him over Earl, man. Yeah. I mean, you were right. You were right. But, man, Earl Campbell, man.
- [53:09]
A
You know what's amazing about Earl Campbell college footage.
- [53:13]
B
Yeah.
- [53:13]
A
Like, everybody remembers that play against Rice. And honestly, they should have never let Earl Campbell play football against Rice, but where he picks that one dude up and throws him like five yards going in for the touchdown.
- [53:23]
B
Yeah.
- [53:24]
A
The thing about Earl Campbell college footage is Earl Campbell, NFL highlights are all him running dead into somebody's chest.
- [53:32]
B
Yes.
- [53:32]
A
He's so fast that in college, those dudes aren't in the screen.
- [53:37]
B
He's running away from them.
- [53:38]
A
In college, he's running away from people. And only had one year, by the way, as tailback.
- [53:42]
B
Right, right.
- [53:44]
A
All the other years he was playing fullback.
- [53:45]
B
Right.
- [53:46]
A
But this, I mean, Earl didn't win no title.
- [53:49]
B
That's right.
- [53:49]
A
He didn't win no title.
- [53:51]
B
That's right. The one thing that I would say that would work in Earl's favor is that it. The Vince years never built into anything, though. Like, nothing.
- [54:01]
A
Oh, I disagree.
- [54:03]
B
Nothing can. Well, I mean, what has Texas done.
- [54:04]
A
Since then to say that it didn't build any into anything ignores that four years later, they were right back in that same stadium playing for another national championship, that if Colt doesn't get hurt. Hurt on the second drive of the game, they still lose. I don't I do not. Here's why I don't agree. This is why it's easy to dismiss it. Go look at that era of Nick Saban, Alabama football, and go look at the teams that beat them. And, and they all had in common the same thing. A quarterback that could move a quarterback. It didn't have to be. It didn't have to be a quarterback that could run like Vince, but just somebody that made the defense have to account for that, man. I mean, they, and they were marching on them through those first two drives of the game.
- [54:46]
B
But this is the thing. A quarterback that runs has to get hit by Alabama defense.
- [54:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, I hear you, but I'm just saying if he does not get hurt, we're not. The idea that if Cole gets hurt, they still, if he doesn't get hurt, they still lose. There's a great deal of evidence to indicate that. I could not say that with the confidence that you say it, but I guess my question would be. Well, you say it didn't build into anything. They spent most of the next year in the top five. Right. And it wasn't until Colt got hurt again that that started to come. AP In 08, they had a one loss season where they lost the one game by one point, dead at the end and probably should have played for a national championship. I guess my question would be, what was this supposed to build into?
- [55:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, I guess the thing is, is that it? You would have thought that that would have created a whole nother generation of like, you know, recruiting classes and, you.
- [55:31]
A
Know, but they, but they kept bringing in dudes. The problem was they were poorly coached.
- [55:36]
B
Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's like they had Tyrone. I remember I went through this, I wrote about Archmanic early in the year. They had like the Tyrone Swoopses.
- [55:42]
A
They had.
- [55:43]
B
Who is that man? The other. I mean, they had just a bunch of guys that were like highly regarded, but just. It didn't feel like Texas seized on that moment and became like Texas in the way that we thought. Like I thought when Vince won that national championship, okay, we're going to see Texas win another national championship again sometime in the next 20 years.
- [56:02]
A
But again, they were, they were on the Cubs.
- [56:04]
B
They were on the.
- [56:04]
A
They were right there. The problem is you got to get another one of those and they just don't make those. You know what I mean? Like, like it's, you know, I mean, the Cobra core story is amazing when you really stop and think about it. Right. This is Mule Shoe, a West Texas two way high school player.
- [56:21]
B
Yeah.
- [56:22]
A
Who became truly one of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of college football.
- [56:26]
B
Yeah. He could have won a Heisman. I mean, you know what I mean?
- [56:28]
A
He's one of the great freshman quarterbacks that there's ever been. Like, it was all there. So I felt like. I did think they built off of that. That 06 recruiting class was huge. Like, once he came in, they brought the dudes in, and then Matt, he lost it, man. He lost it. There's no other way around it.
- [56:45]
B
Well, I mean, it's also, like, what. I mean, Greg Davis, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Just like. And then, you know, they lose Will Musk Champ. Like, people leave and things change. But I just felt like I. At that time, I remember thinking, I was like, damn, man, we're gonna have to be dealing with Texas for the rest of my life now. You know, Like, Texas being great. And then tcu. Oh, well, I'm not wearing my TCU sweatshirt today. I'm wearing a 713 1. You don't know nothing about that. But what happened is that. I mean, TCU wins eight of the 12 in the Big 12 era, man. You know, and that's not. That's not the Texas that I thought, you know?
- [57:17]
A
No, I mean, that's in. That's truly embarrassing for Texas.
- [57:20]
B
Yeah.
- [57:21]
A
There's no. There's no way around it that it. It turned in the way it did. Of course, they had three years where a lot of people around the program were more concerned with getting the coach fired than they were with actually winning football games.
- [57:33]
B
Charlie, strong, man, that did.
- [57:34]
A
I mean, that did happen. Don't get me wrong. He did not do much to acquit himself, but that did happen.
- [57:40]
B
It wasn't going. I mean, the thing is, when he got hired, I. You tell me if you felt the same way. I was like, this isn't gonna work.
- [57:47]
A
The athletic director went and hired a black dude and didn't run it by nobody.
- [57:52]
B
I mean, was it Red McCombs who said, I think you would have made a great defensive coordinator? Is that.
- [57:59]
A
Here's the question, though. Was he wrong?
- [58:01]
B
I mean. Yeah. I mean.
- [58:03]
A
I mean, it's not. I mean, he went to South Florida and looked exactly the same.
- [58:05]
B
Yeah. Like, he did great. I mean, the thing is, is that at that time, would he be.
- [58:09]
A
I mean, it was. It was the sentiment behind it. Was the sentiment behind it.
- [58:14]
B
Right.
- [58:15]
A
Coincidentally, vindication arrived.
- [58:21]
B
That's true. And I mean, and. And Charlie had some other stuff going on too kind of in the background during them years.
- [58:27]
A
Yeah, he did, you know, but. But here's. Here's what's interesting, though. You're right. It never turned anything for Texas. But also, USC was never the same.
- [58:36]
B
Oh, man, look, I remember when you mentioned that 2018, because I thought that 2018 was great like that.
- [58:42]
A
I thought Texas and USC should have run. Been back in a championship game again.
- [58:46]
B
Absolutely. Raymond Malanga, you know, Brian Cushing, Ray.
- [58:50]
A
Ray Maluga, I believe is how you say.
- [58:53]
B
Yeah, is that my luga? Is that.
- [58:54]
A
Yes.
- [58:55]
B
Okay. Yeah. See, people that watch tailgate know I'll be mispronouncing names. That's my joint. But yeah, man, so I. Yeah, usc, that's. And that's kind of the funny thing because again, USC is kind of like Texas in that way. It's like, why aren't y' all better? Like, you got what you need. You've got everything you need.
- [59:11]
A
There was a run last decade where none of the top 20 football players in California went to USC or UCLA.
- [59:19]
B
That's. I mean, that's like.
- [59:21]
A
It was like, it was inexplicable. They were just going everywhere else. They never really got up off the ground after the probation. Like, I don't like USC right now. There's no re. What. What reason is there for Ohio State necessarily to be better than usc, except for the fact that they got money. And that's the problem they got now is they got a. But usc. Part of why Reggie Bush was so famous, part of why O.J. simpson was so famous, is that USC is a really big deal to rich famous people, right? Oh, you know, and so it gets back to, like, I don't, like, I remember the first time I saw Caleb Williams with his nil money at usc. I was like, oh, shit, they back. Because, I mean, who could give you a better visit than USC can?
- [60:01]
B
Absolutely. Like, oh, USC is live and the campus itself is beautiful. I mean, you know, you know, if you, if you, if you, if you can get past whatever you think about the surrounding neighborhood, the campus itself is beautiful. So. But it's funny you mentioned that, because a couple years after that national championship when I was at the Shreveport Times, Shreveport Times had enough money to send me out there to do a profile on John David Booty. Okay? John David Booty, one of Shreveport's greatest all time quarterbacks and also part of the Booty, the legendary Booty family. And I remember I was talking with John David Booty. I'm sitting on campus and somebody in the background Playing a piccolo and it's like 72 degrees. It's gorgeous out there. And I'm just asking him, so, like, tell me what it's like being a quarterback at Shreveport and he, a quarterback at usc. And he told me about how like Ashton Kutcher and James Kahn had invited him up to throw the football around at their house. Like, he was like, yeah, man, why don't you guys come on up and throw the football around? And I was like, damn, like USC guy, you can just do that. You know, they want to hang out with you like that. And at that time, consider LA didn't have an NFL team, right? And so like they had, they had that whole thing on lock. And I was like, what could be better than this? But I think one thing that maybe sort of underrated with the USC thing is that, man, those not as many black people live in California as there used to be.
- [61:19]
A
That is true.
- [61:20]
B
You know what I mean? There's a lot. I mean, the Bay Area has basically gotten cleared out. So like that's what OJ's, OJ's from San Francisco, man. The projects, Portero Hill projects. So Cali doesn't have a lot of them. Black folks have moved to Arizona and Las Vegas. More affordable areas have moved completely away. So they don't have that anymore. So I got to think that that hurts in terms of like the pool of players that they've got to pick from, right?
- [61:45]
A
No, but you're right though. It never dawned on me that 20 years after that game, neither of those programs would ever come close to those heights again. And it has not happened. But that right there is Joel Anderson. Check him out on the ring of tailgate and let us all congratulate him. I don't know if he passed 100% on this one, but a whole hour and you didn't even turn into your true hating ass self. And we love that you. We love that you tried.
- [62:11]
B
I was going to. I was going to. I was going to because I heard your little show yesterday, man. You know what I'm saying? What you said about me, about being, you know, one of your top haters or whatever, and I don't want to.
- [62:21]
A
Get into one of my personal top haters, okay? Like, like, I mean, actually you are. I mean, you hate on me tough, but yes, you are the immediate hater that came to my mind, but continue.
- [62:30]
B
I didn't want to get into it because I was going to be like, well, you know, we could compare like who we hate against and see what the community thinks about it, but I didn't want to do that. I came prepared to address that, but because you want some different stuff today, I was like, okay, well, we just gonna collab. We gonna be, you know what I'm saying, boys, man. So I'm just, you know, I'm gonna let it go.
- [62:47]
A
Yeah, go. Go ahead and, go ahead and ask. We'll let the community speak on this. I, I appreciate you doing your. Doing the best you could.
- [62:55]
B
I, I. Well, yeah, I did the best I could.
- [62:57]
A
Great job, brother. Great, great job. There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumley hands everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-596-7767. Whatever you want to talk about, we'll listen. 323-5967-7767. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe that you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.