Michael Smith on Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson & 25 years of the Black QB | 08.13

Summary

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The Right Time with Bomani Jones

Episode: Michael Smith on Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson & 25 years of the Black QB
Release Date: August 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this thoughtful and often humorous episode, Bomani Jones is joined by Michael Smith to reflect on the evolution and impact of Black quarterbacks over the past 25 years. Using recent top-draft picks and all-time greats as touchpoints, they explore how stereotypes, expectations, and the football landscape itself have shifted dramatically—from Michael Vick’s trailblazing moment to having Black QBs regularly selected at the top of NFL Drafts. The conversation blends historical perspective, analysis of systemic barriers that Black athletes have faced (and still do), and memorable anecdotes that both celebrate progress and push for continued change.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Then vs. Now in Black Quarterback History

• Bomani and Michael reminisce about personal experiences and set up the theme: the quantum leap from the era when Black QBs were rarely even allowed a shot, to the modern era where they're often the faces of franchises.
• Bomani: “We have to acknowledge that there are things that have changed in the ways that we see black quarterbacks... It's been a fascinating evolution.” (05:38)
• The hosts stress the importance of celebrating victories, even while recognizing the journey isn't complete.

2. The Modern Era – Progress by the Numbers

• Discussion of Black quarterbacks going first overall, from Michael Vick in 2001 to a string of #1 picks in the 2020s (Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, etc.).
• Michael: “So well compensated, the highest paid players in the league. Dak Prescott, for example... Maybe somebody who's gonna challenge for the conversation as the GOAT is a black quarterback. It's really mind blowing how quickly it happened.” (07:43)
• Even the “backup QB” role—once almost invisible for Black players—is now a viable and lucrative career path.

3. Changing Stereotypes and the “Goalpost Move”

• The hosts examine shifts in scouting and evaluation, reflecting on how Black QBs were once docked for their athleticism—now, mobility is expected for all QBs.
• Bomani: “They're getting criticized for not running enough!” (13:02)
• The dialogue highlights CJ Stroud’s college criticism (not running much) as a sign of how far things have moved.

4. Spread Offenses & RPO – The Tactical Revolution

• Michael points to the spread offense and RPO concepts as true inflection points that allowed Black QBs’ skills to redefine the position.
  • “If you lack mobility as a quarterback... you are the dinosaur. You don't fit in this modern game.” (12:33, Michael)
• Cam Newton’s college-to-pro transition is explored as a symbol of this new era; his success forced teams at both levels to adjust and incorporate his strengths rather than trying to force him into a “traditional” QB box.

5. Pipeline Development and Systemic Change

• The trickle-up effect: changes in high school and college football styles led to the NFL adapting, not the other way around.
• Bomani: “At the lower levels... the style of offense began to spread and then caught on in the NFL. Cam Newton became important because he was the spread college quarterback...” (15:15)
• College conservatism delayed the rise of Black QBs; certain storied programs (Texas, USC, Georgia, Miami) only embraced Black quarterbacks much later despite talented Black QBs being available.

6. Subtler Obstacles & Residual Bias

• There are still organizations resistant to change (e.g., Giants, Packers), and the notion of a Black starting QB isn't universal everywhere.
  • Michael: “There’s still some commentary that’s problematic.” (25:45)
• “Level of blackness” scrutiny—a backlash following the mainstreaming of Black QBs (i.e., Russell Wilson, Donovan McNabb, Kaepernick) (28:31).
  • Not just about representation, but also leadership style and off-field politics.

7. Backup QBs and Coaching Pipelines

• The necessity (and odd politics) of Black starters also having Black backups to shield them from unfair scrutiny.
  • Bomani: “If you have any white man in town as the backup quarterback... Oh, no, no, it's gonna be a thing.” (40:03)
• Michael calls for more Black quarterback coaches as the next critical “frontier” in NFL diversity.
  • Michael: “The quarterback coach is the pipeline... the more Byron Leftwichs of the world transition... the better.” (38:31)

8. Personalities, ‘What Ifs’, and Forgotten Figures

• Vick: What could have happened if prime Michael Vick played under a coach/with a system that actually fit him early on?
• Cordell Stewart: “Slash” as the bridge between Cunningham and modern multi-tooled QBs, underappreciated for his adaptability and success.
• “The Steelers use Stewart as a weapon. And please let us not forget they went to an AFC Championship game with Cordell Stewart as their starting quarterback.” (37:29, Bomani)
• “We got enough Black QBs now that we ain't gotta lie”—the depth of talent means fans can be honest about where a player stands.

9. Authentic Leadership & Black QBs as Faces of Franchises

• Black QBs have gone from being denied the opportunity, to re-defining what leadership and “face of the franchise” means.
• Michael: “We've gone from Black quarterbacks wanting to be paid fair market value, to Black quarterbacks setting the market.” (14:53)

10. Looking Back, Looking Ahead

• The journey is ongoing; barriers remain but there’s tangible and visible progress.
• “The notion has dulled really in the last 10 years. And that is... maybe it's just a matter of... the stakes got too high, or B, you just wound up with enough people that were like, oh yeah, this has been going on forever.” (25:45, Bomani)
• Anecdotes about how Black quarterbacks made institutional change necessary — not just on the field, but for broader football culture.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [06:55] Michael Smith:
  “You hate to get complacent. You hate to feel like, oh, we have overcome. I mean, but we're overcoming, I guess... we have come a long way to where we are complaining about an injustice of a quarterback who is lauded for his accuracy and intelligence, not his athleticism, sliding to the fifth round of the draft.”

• [12:33] Michael Smith:
  “If you lack mobility as a black or white quarterback...you are the dinosaur. You don't fit in this modern game.”

• [13:26] Bomani Jones:
  “Let me tell you who I be feeling bad for... I be feeling bad for them slow white boys, man. They changed the game on them overnight. They used to penalize you for being fast... Now, they out here like, ‘Alright, cool, let's see you go.’”

• [22:59] Bomani Jones:
  “They finally caught up... they finally decided that, you know, winning is probably a little bit more important than all this other stuff.”

• [38:31] Michael Smith:
  “I think another frontier that's necessary to continue to push is black quarterback coaches, because that quarterback coach is the pipeline.”

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Important Timestamps

• [03:46] – Setting up the 25-year reflection and the issue of QB evaluation
• [05:38] – Discussing Tyrod Taylor, Aaron Brooks, and how Black QBs now have longer careers
• [07:43] – The leap from “just drafted” to being faces of the league and highest-paid
• [12:33] – Shift from “must win from pocket” to mobility as standard
• [14:53] – Black QBs not just wanting fair pay, but setting market value
• [15:15] – Spread offenses and college innovations shape NFL QB expectations
• [25:47] – Progress means the idea of a Black QB is “not nearly as provocative”
• [28:31] – How the conversation shifted to “are you Black enough?”
• [38:31] – Next goal: more Black QB coaches, creating head-coaching pipelines
• [40:03] – Why having a Black starter often necessitates a Black backup
• [42:27]–[45:49] – “What ifs” for Vick, McNabb, and others who played earlier; the persistent lie that athleticism was a deficiency for Black QBs
• [46:12] – Steve McNair as a key early inflection point—drafted top-3 from an HBCU
• [47:41] – How close McNair came to a Super Bowl ring/Hall of Fame
• [49:35+] – Personal memories and lighthearted banter about growing up, dancing, and cultural differences in Black communities

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Episode Tone & Style

Candid, reflective, often comedic, but consistently insightful. Jones and Smith maintain a conversational, colloquial tone, freely blending systemic critique with humorous asides and deeply personal anecdotes. The episode is approachable for die-hard football fans and social observers alike.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In...

This episode is a master class in how sports reflects and accelerates broader social currents. It’s as much about cultural change and resilience as it is about X’s and O’s. Jones and Smith offer not just history, but context, nuance, and a vision for what’s next in the ever-evolving saga of Black quarterbacks in football.

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Transcript

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[Bomani Jones]

Let's drive foreign.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time, a Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We have wrapped up our list of the top 25 athletes of the last 25 years. We've given episodes around them to offer a bit of context for things that have gone on in the last 25 years. And of course, joining us now, the man who needs no introduction, New Orleans, is own Michael Smith. What's going on?

[Michael Smith]

Not much, man. What's happening with you?

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, man, I was in Vegas a couple weeks ago. Wave, man, wasn't the same without you. I lost a lot of money, too. Not like, like a lot, lot, lot, lot. You know what I'm saying? But I was not victorious. That's why I forgot to say send you the text messages with the updates.

[Michael Smith]

But did you enjoy it, though?

[Bomani Jones]

Had a ball. Had a ball. You know, that's. That's. That's all it could be.

[Michael Smith]

So my first. Yeah, I won't take up too much time with this, but I'll just remind you that my first real visit to Vegas was with you. Yes. And when we sat on that blackjack table, you reminded me. It's like, look, man, you earned it. This is about enjoying yourself. If you hit a make money, you got a bigger problem.

[Bomani Jones]

Yo, that is what I tell people all the time. Like, I give people, like, I just don't like giving away my money. And that's only kind of true because people give away their money in all kinds of ways. You spend money on all kinds of things where you don't get anything back. The problem is if you approach it with the plan of I'm going to walk out of here with more money than I came with, that strategy is. What's the word I'm looking for here? Fraught.

[Michael Smith]

Right, right, right. As an exercise of futility, more often than not.

[Bomani Jones]

Right. And you know what it is? Keeping the place going. But I tell you this, I don't know if you've seen this, but they've been reporting about like Vegas being down. And I'll be honest, it felt a little slower. But it's also worth noting it's so goddamn hot that like summer Vegas is now like a whole different animal. You better gamble.

[Michael Smith]

I can only imagine. I could only imagine, like, you better.

[Bomani Jones]

Gamble, otherwise you gonna fry. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Smith]

Could. Before you move on, I'm gonna just make a request like, can you, can we do a podcast one day where we just give the inside story of our last trip to Vegas?

[Bomani Jones]

I think we can pull that off.

[Michael Smith]

Okay. I just, I, I just, I just remember some of our shenanigans that last time with that art, that art exhibit that we went to.

[Bomani Jones]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We could get around to the immersive. Immersive Van Gogh, that installation.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's what they call the business of teaser. We got to find out the next time we dive into that. Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Yes. It was a great day. I forgot what that thing was. I was about to say it's not a big deal. We need to talk about black quarterbacks. Anyway, that's what I wanted to talk about with you. The last 25 years of black quarterbacks. Now I'm going to run something by you. You don't even know that I'm going to run this by you, but I think, first time I'm here and I'm curious. So when Lamar Jackson came up in our countdown, I made the point that it is entirely possible that he will go down as the last black quarterback to really get treated like we thought of black quarterbacks being treated and evaluated. Right. Like the one that didn't run a 40 yard dash because he's afraid they're Going to try to make a run back, kick slips all the way down. Everything else, like switch positions, Right?

[Michael Smith]

Yeah. Yeah, right.

[Bomani Jones]

I think something we don't talk nearly enough about and I think it is important in these spaces for us to celebrate our victories because it can be very easy and understandable to lock in on everything that's left to do.

[Michael Smith]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

Tyrod Taylor bounces around and makes eight figures to be a backup. Now that was something that did not happen for black quarterbacks at a. At a different point in time. Something you and I talked. We would talk about Aaron Brooks, quarterback for the Saints, who I think people think of negatively. But when you think about it as the second best quarterback in the history of the franchise, if you really like go through it. Aaron Brooks's career was seven years and he was out of there. Not, not because he went to go do television or whatever, but a guy that was a legitimate starting quarterback. Right. Like. Like he was a. He had a. He went from the Saints to the Raiders and he was bad with the Raiders, never to be seen again. Those sorts of things don't seem to happen the same way. That boy Snoop Huntley keep turning up places. Somebody be calling Josh Johnson.

[Michael Smith]

Johnson got more jobs. He'd have been on every team multiple times. Yes. Yeah. Talking about a journeyman.

[Bomani Jones]

It's like he throw. He. Like a throwback collector. He got a. He got a Mitchell and Nest closet at his crib. All of that's the same. We have to acknowledge that there are things that have changed in the ways that we see black quarterbacks where they get drafted, everything else. And it's been a fascinating evolution. I think that once we got to where it was, I wonder how much of it is that media stopped covering more of the important societal societies, societal type things that surround the game. But this millennium really starts. 01 is the year that Michael Vic goes as the number one overall pick. You fast forward to 2025, we had black quarterback go number one overall. 2024, we had a black quarterback go number one overall. 2023, we had a black quarterback number one overall.

[Michael Smith]

I think they've been eight since. Since Vic. Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah.

It's not there. There are still things, but it's not Geno Smith was able to get back to having a career and then.

[Michael Smith]

And then get traded and get a contract. Oh, the, the progress is incredible. Man. I'm so glad you. This, this. I. I didn't know what you were going to say, but I knew what the subject matter was and you know, you and I are Usually on the same wavelength. And that's kind of what I was thinking about is just how far we've come.

I mean, because you hate to get complacent. You hate to feel like, oh, we have overcome. I mean, but we're overcoming, I guess. And to your point, all I could think about as I was watching the draft and I was watching the commentary and the outrage about Shador Sanders sliding is, man, we didn't come a long way to where we are. We are complaining about an injustice of a quarterback who is lauded for his accuracy and intelligence, not his athleticism, sliding to the fifth round of the draft when once upon a time, some of the best black quarterbacks in the country would have just been happy to be drafted to play quarterback, to be drafted in any round. Forget the first round. I mean, Doug Williams going 17 was history at the time.

[Bomani Jones]

That was the first one, right?

[Michael Smith]

They were like, people were white media, mainstream media, upset. Now, I know he's Deion's kid and all that, but upset because the consensus at the time, second best quarterback prospect in this class slipped to the fifth round. I'm like, man, it's. Wow, we have come such a long way in the discourse and the conversation about black quarterbacks because they're so prominent, so successful, so well compensated, the highest paid players in the league. Dak Prescott, for example, black quarterback. And. And maybe somebody who's going to challenge for the conversation as the goat is a black quarterback. So, yeah, man, it's. It's really mind blowing how quickly it happened. Because that's a snapshot of time, right?

[Bomani Jones]

And that's what I'm curious about right there, as I think about it, is I don't think we'd be able to find like a clear inflection point, right? There are like, there are little things that pop up to make you go, huh? For example, Kyler Murray, a diminutive fellow for a quarterback, being the number one overall pick, right? And somebody that you basically go and hire. I mean, it's hard to tell exactly. Do you hire the head coach because you're going to take Kyler Murray? Did you take Kyler Murray because he had the head coach? But even still, it all went in that direction. But if you go back and I was thinking about this to 2014, that was the year that the first quarterback to go was Blake Bortles. But the two most prominent quarterbacks in that first round were Johnny Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater. And I remember that was the first NFL draft after I had moved to Miami So I was working with Dan Leitard, who could be. I would have contended a tad bit naive about certain things. And so going into that draft, I remember telling him, I was like, look, just. You watch what happens to Teddy. Now. Teddy ultimately proved to be a mid level to mid to fringe level starting quarterback. Right.

[Michael Smith]

Like he didn't have, by the way, who just got another job.

[Bomani Jones]

He just did. Right, right, right.

[Michael Smith]

Who just.

[Bomani Jones]

Who just did. Right. But he was not. I mean, we went into that draft with people saying that he was going to. That season. He was the first quarterback that would probably go. He wound up going number 32 in the draft. But what I remember. And you had these moments in drafts where you remember this with brothers that were going through at this point in time, it was, Johnny Manziel has big hands, therefore it does not matter that he is short, even though being short had been treated like a death knell for quarterbacks the whole way. And now suddenly the ability to run a professional offense.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Do all the stuff that Teddy Bridgewater, you know, was known for, suddenly none of those things mattered anymore. And all that mattered was this little guy had big hands. So now we're going to eliminate the hype and we. Maybe he could scurry around a little bit. And now look, it turns out, without question, the pit, if you needed one, should have been Teddy Bridgewater. Right. Like, history has borne that out without question. But not because the mother dudes was cold. Right. Like, they weren't there. But that was one that now is only 11 years ago where I can point to and be like, okay, you see how they be doing us? You see how they be doing us? I don't know how many examples I have.

Right. The closest that I could think of was what we thought, Justin Fields, when he slipped in that draft. But even then that came with a couple of. Well, Lamar. I mean, other than Lamar Jackson, who I just talked about.

[Michael Smith]

But Justin Fields is more recent. And Fields was still. Wasn't he like, top 15?

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, he was. He was top 15. And also.

[Michael Smith]

And they traded up to get him.

[Bomani Jones]

And all the skepticism of him was fair. One of the things was the epilepsy diagnosis. And you'll never really be able to know exactly how. I know of one team that could have taken a quarterback that didn't because of the epilepsy. But then the other thing that bore out in the film proved to be true. It'd be back there taking too long.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

You know, like, that was. That was not a. We can call him because He's a brother situation.

[Michael Smith]

But that. Okay, but that's great that you brought that particular thing up, because what has evolved.

Is that is no longer a generalization or a stereotype. Like, if Justin Fields doesn't process quickly enough. Justin Fields doesn't process quickly enough. Not black people lack the necessities to play the position in general. You know, you asked about an inflection point. What about. And I don't remember exactly what year this is. You gray. Bobby's kind of. Tell me the year. What about the implementation of spread offenses in the RPO game?

[Bomani Jones]

Yo, that.

[Michael Smith]

Once that shit started.

[Bomani Jones]

Yes.

[Michael Smith]

I mean, you all talk about, like. It's like now instead of, hey, Michael Vick going back to Vick. And, you know, the beginning of this. This. This chapter in NFL history, you're focusing on going back to. Man, you got to win from the pocket. The only way to do this is win from the pocket. You got to win from the pocket.

To. Now you're. You can't be a statue if you lack mobility as a black or white quarterback. That. You lack mobility. You are the dinosaur. You are. You. You don't fit in this modern game. And so it's like, yeah, we go away from the pocket, but we're going to. I mean, once upon a time, you know what? You don't hear anymore about Lamar Jackson. Oh, man, he gonna get hurt now. You got guys like Kyler Murray, diminutive.

[Bomani Jones]

Though he may be, like, man, you.

[Michael Smith]

Don'T run enough, though. We have come so far in this conversation about black quarterbacks. So they get criticized for not running enough.

[Bomani Jones]

That. That was C.J. stroud in Ohio State.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Their complaint about him was that he didn't run enough. And I was. And I ain't gonna lie.

[Michael Smith]

Quarterback.

[Bomani Jones]

Yo, And I'm not gonna lie. When that happened with him, my respect response to that was, damn. That was a. Now you see how they do a situation for me? Because I was like, oh, oh, okay, right. Exactly. Now we. Now we move the goal post, right?

[Michael Smith]

The brother too smart. He a smarty Arti brother. So he too.

[Bomani Jones]

Right, Right. Let me tell you who I be feeling bad for. Tangential to this conversation. I be feeling bad for them slow white boys, man. They changed the game on them overnight. They used to penalize you for being fast. It was. It was better for you to not be able to move. Now they out here like, all right, cool. Let's see you go.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

They might play some music to see if you could dance.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah. Whenever. Whenever they started embracing quarterbacks as a rushing threat and design. The design run game that. That just. I mean, now you're talking about, you know, Cam.

Cap, obviously we mentioned Lamar.

You know, the list goes on. I mean, that's what I would say was. Because the way the game was played. Cause before they could say, you don't play the game the way it needs to be played, and they didn't believe that we could play the game the way it needs to be played. Now it's like, oh, the game is played differently. We've embraced what these guys bring to the table. Oh, and by the way, they're also exceptional pocket passes. I mean, like, the guys. Guys that you don't think of as mobile quarterbacks are actually, you know, quite athletic. I mean, Patrick Mahomes, for example, Petrovska won. But that's not his. His claim to fame. That's not his calling card, per se. So, yeah, man, like, it's. It's really crazy how the conversation evolved. I think it's not just the way the game was, has been played, but also, like, these guys are also faces of the league, not just their franchises, faces of the league.

Guys like Mahomes, guys like Dak, guys that are getting these huge contracts that are these. There. We've got. We've come. We've gone from quarterbacks just wanting to be paid fair, fair market value. Black quarterbacks want to be paid fair market value to black quarterbacks setting the market. You know, there's just so many examples of how we've come such a long way in such a short time.

[Bomani Jones]

So I think part of what you describe, I think the spread offense is a really interesting point in the role that Cam Newton plays there. And I think that's something that I've talked about in this series, in other. In other episodes. But I want to try to walk it back a little farther, right? So I remember when in the middle of the 2003 football season, where Texas switched their offense and went to the spread and implemented with Vince Young and implemented the zone read as their default offense that they were going to. Part of that was, you know, we've got Vince Young, right? Like, like. But the other part was a recognition by the coaching staff at Texas that the style of offense that they were now running was the style of offense that the players were playing in high school in the state of Texas, and that their program had to respond to what the players they were recruiting were going to be able to do what they were going to be capable of doing. Right now, you could argue that's A bit of a shortcut because you should be able to develop them into whatever it is that you need them to be. But I think we saw that same phenomenon start to happen as the, as the spread game became more proliferate in college. Then that also then required the NFL to make some adaptations. Because the offensive line play is one thing. You know about this. They're having to teach offensive lineman how to play. NFL offensive line versus college line is like a challenge that they have. But you know, something else that happens now in the. Or doesn't that doesn't happen in the NFL. Or something that happens in the NFL now that didn't before, which is immediate impact rookie wide receivers. Randy Moss was such an anomaly before because there was. You really couldn't tell which of the college guys was going to turn into a pro guy because it was such a different game. Moving up now everything has changed. I think it's. Maybe it's because of the seven on seven. Whatever it is, the point I'm making is that at the lower levels and style of offense began to spread and then caught on in the NFL. And Cam Newton became important because he was the spread. College quarterback Sam Bradford was a similar case the year before because he played in the spread at Oklahoma and was still the number one overall pick. The difference is Cam Newton was in one of the most loaded drafts there has ever been. Right. And if you redid that draft, he'd still be the number one overall pick because you couldn't pass up on that guy. And if you were going to do that, you were going to need to start putting some stuff in that worked for him. And then as that went, that offered more of a premium for a quarterback who could move.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

And I'm not saying that black people are faster than white people. I'm saying that. But I am saying that everybody thinks that black people are faster than white people. Therefore, if you say the quarterback gotta have some speed now, you gotta start talking about these black quarterbacks. That's like the schools that ran the wishbone. Hey, man, if we gonna be playing the speed game, we might have to get some racial progress in this if we gonna try to make. Make this happen. But as that went, it got to the place where we talked about you get to like 20, 21 and they like, yo, if these white boys can't move, we gonna have to go get a brother.

[Michael Smith]

And it's not, it's not just the, the evolution of the way the game was played. It's the, it's the physical evolution of the people chasing these quarterbacks.

[Bomani Jones]

Yes.

[Michael Smith]

Like, if these dudes go survive with these edge rushers and these pass rushers being as, as, as athletic as they are, we gotta have somebody who could, who can protect themselves, who could buy time in the pocket, who could extend plays. Not to mention, you know, with the rule changes in the secondary and how much you couldn't touch said receivers, it just, everything just catered toward a style of play, you know, Said another way that just so happens to cater to people with a little more melody than their skin.

[Bomani Jones]

Hold up, hold up. Let me throw another theory out here. I don't know if you've ever, I don't know if you' heard Harry Edwards say this, but he used to say it all the time. And I mean, this is a totally plausible thing. Harry would make the point that once Vic got out there, right, and you had other guys coming up, Donovan McNabb, because, you know, there's there have been various points of like, surges of black quarterbacks, and then it kind of recedes. It happens very similar with black coaches also, where you look up and it's seven of them. Then one day you look up and it was two. Right. But like, these things would happen. And so Harry's argument was, once you started to see the rise of those black quarterbacks, those mobile quarterbacks, that is when you saw the penalties become more punitive for hitting quarterbacks late in the pocket or all those sorts of things, right? Because as those edge rushers got faster, if, if you want to make sure that the white dudes can play and you think the white dudes aren't fast, all these are ifs, right? If you believe those things. Right. If you, if you are to believe those things, then the way to make the white guys faster is to slow down the defensive ends. And the way that you slow down the ends is make it to where they got to pull up. Yeah, right. They got to worry about all the things that could possibly go wrong and that seemed to happen. It feels like you kind of reached a point where they. But if these things were the case, that they reached a point where they had no more rules they could change, this is just what it was going to be.

[Michael Smith]

Doesn't it feel weird? And by the way, here's another thing going back to like the idea of intelligence.

You could argue, I mean, the gold standard for rookie quarterbacks, you talk. Because when you talk about receivers ready to play right away, it reminded me of quarterbacks and the development curve. The gold standard used to be Marino, 83, Roethlisberger 04. But I don't think there's any question that the two most impressive rookie seasons we've ever seen are, were back to back years with CJ Stroud followed by Jayden Daniels. You know what I'm saying? And it's like not only have black quarterbacks dismantled, the notion of we can't process, we can't think, we can't lead. Leadership is another part of it. Like black quarterbacks have been able to lead when organizations, let alone locker rooms.

But they've also hit the ground running, literally and figuratively. But what I was going to say was, isn't it.

[Bomani Jones]

Hold on, hold on. Right fast. I want to say just right quick on that. And I think it's important to note specifically with Daniel Stroud is interesting because whatever that fancy test is that comes out, they try to get process speed.

[Michael Smith]

The other one. Oh yeah, the new one.

Yes, right.

[Bomani Jones]

The one that, as I recall.

[Michael Smith]

But Stroud did not. Oh, wow. Yes, wow.

[Bomani Jones]

Where Stroud did not do well.

[Michael Smith]

Yes, you're right, you're right. That was a big thing going into the draft.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, it was a huge thing. And remember, he didn't think, he didn't think the Texans were going to draft him for a number of reasons. That's a different story for a different day. But Jaden Daniels, the thing that he is praised for above all else is processing speed.

[Michael Smith]

Processing speed. Yes, yes. He, I mean, and coming out, it was like, oh, he's just a runner. He doesn't throw over the middle of the field.

[Bomani Jones]

He.

[Michael Smith]

That's still. And that's what I was going to say. Like as many difficult conversations and difficult not for us, but for certain people that don't want to have them or listen to those conversations being had. But as many conversations as we have had about black progress or the lack thereof in this country, in every sector of society, but specifically sports, for the most part, for me and you like, it just feels so weird to even approach a feeling of we've arrived. But it's really hard not to.

[Bomani Jones]

But it's. Well, the one, the one point is it is not us who have arrived.

[Michael Smith]

That's true. Fair enough. Fair enough.

[Bomani Jones]

They, they, they, they, they finally caught up.

[Michael Smith]

They caught up.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, they, they, they, they finally decided that, you know, winning is probably a little bit more important than all this other stuff. And I would also like to make this note while quarterback still needs to, you know, be able to move. Hey, man, a guy that can drop back in the pocket and make it happen. With quick decision making and a big arm.

[Michael Smith]

Yes.

[Bomani Jones]

Can still be highly successful in this league. Tom Brady was.

[Michael Smith]

Joe Bo is not a runner. He got some. He got some wheels. When he can move, he could move in the pocket. Yes.

[Bomani Jones]

But I'm saying this. Matthew Stafford can still play absolutely. In the league. Justin Herbert is not unathletic. But Justin Herbert, whose problem might be that he's a little bit too big. But Justin Herbert is not. But yeah, he can. But that ain't. That ain't what.

[Michael Smith]

That's not his calling card. No. No. That's not what he's. That's not what they pay him to do. No.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, right. Dak Prescott can kind of run, but that's not really what we're talking about with him. Like. But if you can drop back, see the throw, make the Geno Smith a classic pocket passer, you can still do that. And what I think maybe is interesting about this time period is anything else is the fact that Geno Smith can now exist as a pocket passer. Because it used to be you would go through on rivals and you know how rivals are split it up with pro style passers and dual passers.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, right.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, but see, but like the athlete list made sense because that was like you could play a different. Depending on what school wants you, right? Yeah, but the dual threat list would be a pretty decent mix demographically. The pro style mix would be all white dudes, which was basically to say, if you're not gonna be fast, we don't want you because we could go find a white dude to be slow. There's actually been a measure of progress and it is in the. In allowing us to be slow. I'll give you an example. The late Dwayne Haskins, it did not work out. He. He did not have a good NFL career while he was there. But I remember asking myself, because remember, Dwayne was struggling in the NFL while Joe Burrow was blowing the box at lsu, just blowing everything out. And I was like, hey, man, how in the world did Joe Burrow, if he's this good, how did he not start at Ohio State? And brother, I pulled up those clips of Dwight Haskins out of high school and it was like looking at John Elway, right? Clap, big strong drop back, throw. The ball couldn't really move, but he could do that. There's a. The fact that, that now works, like what I think has happened is just across the board. The idea of a. Having now once you got your black quarterback, can get weird, right? With media, with Fans and everything else.

[Michael Smith]

There's still some commentary that's problematic. Right.

[Bomani Jones]

But the idea of having a black quarterback is not nearly as provocative as it used to be. Like, the notion has dulled really in the last 10 years. And that is, I don't fully understand it. Maybe it's just a matter of finally we got enough people, A, with the stakes got too high or, or B, you just wound up with enough people that were like, oh, yeah, this has been going on forever.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah. And also the, the, you mentioned it, the college game. I mean, you know, politically conservative doesn't begin to begin to describe the college game. I think, I think you've, you've often said the only thing black about college football is the players. You know what I'm saying? So it's. And, and, but once you started getting more and more black quarterbacks, now we had black quarterbacks in college plenty of. For years. I mean, you know, obviously ask Warren Moon about that. You know, I mean, black quarterbacks have succeeded in college for decades. It took the NFL a long time to embrace you. Right. The notion of having a black quarterback to begin with. And I think it also go. But it, but it lends itself. It's interesting because I would say quarterback if we could, if we could liken quarterback to, you know, a CEO position or a management position because it's an extension of ownership. It's like it wasn't just about it being an up the middle thinking position like center or safety or something like that. It was also like, this is going to be the highest paid player more often than not, based on the hierarchy and infrastructure of our salary system. Apologies to Doug Williams, who was like in the 40s when he was the starting quarterback. But.

It'S a denial of wealth that took place for so long. So it was the notion of a black person leading a locker room being a face of a franchise. But are we going to write the biggest checks on our team to black people and make them the highest paid player and give them the power and authority and the clout that comes with that? Because then you want to talk about some problematic commentary. What's interesting, I was thinking about this too when I noticed I talked to you is like the conversation evolved or devolved rather from can a black man play quarterback? To the level of blackness we associate with black quarterbacks. Like whether it's Donovan McNabb in certain circumstances, whether it's Russell Wilson in certain circumstances, whether it's Colin Kaepernick in certain conversations. And I'm not here to legitimize those conversations. I'm just simply saying we got so bored with the conversation around whether or not we have enough black quarterbacks from the days when Warren Moon was literally the only one in the league. Once he came from Canada, went to the Oilers.

We got so bored with that. And black quarterbacks became so commonplace. Going to Super Bowls, getting drafted number one overall, getting big contracts. More than half the league is starting black quarterbacks. It's like, oh, we're used to this now. Now we gotta have something else to pick on him about. So, like, are you black enough? You know, are you, are you using your platform enough? Even though we never asked white quarterbacks to use their platform ever, you know, to make, to make social commentary. But is this person, you know, are you down for the calls enough as a black quarterback? So that's kind of where the conversation is going.

[Bomani Jones]

All right, we're gonna take a beat. Cause I got a couple thoughts off of that one. That one that dawned on me about college that I'm gonna run by you and get your thoughts on. But we talking to Michael Smith. Smith here on the right time.

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[Bomani Jones]

All right, we are back with Michael Smith and you made an interesting point about black quarterbacks in college and that that is a notion that we had seen for many years. And this is true. Like if I'm not mistaken, the first black quarterback to win a national championship, I believe was in 1960. 60. University of Minnesota. Tony Duny played quarterback at the UN University of Minnesota. Cats like me. And you remember the boy, what was his name? Reggie Foggy. Played at, played at Minnesota. Minnesota had a lot of black quarterbacks. You know why? Because you can't be out here discriminating when You, Minnesota, Right. Like, like, like Minnesota can't be like sending, like it's the schools that wind up with the knuckleheads because they can't send players back. Right. Like they, they can't be turning down good players to go there.

[Michael Smith]

Remember Tony Rice at Notre Dame?

[Bomani Jones]

Right. Well, that's an interesting story because that's Lou Holtz, whose politics are far from mine and far from yours, but brought Tony rice as a Prop 48 to Notre Dame, hired Charlie Strong as the defensive coordinator in the SEC in 2001. Because football can get weird, Right? But the thing about quarterbacks, at black quarterbacks in college, there was still a lot of places that just didn't do.

[Michael Smith]

It, wouldn't do it. Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Case in point, Vince Young was the second black starting quarterback at the University of Texas. The first one got the job, I want to say, in 1994.

Go check how many black starting quarterbacks there were at USC between Rodney Pete and Caleb Williams. I think a couple may have popped up. But it was a long it. In the period in which I did around the horn, there had not been a black quarterback at USC. Says Rodney P. Georgia has had one black quarterback who started for one year in the last 35 years, and that was D.J. shockley. Miami. It took a long time before they got around to getting a black quarterback. Right. All them dudes would be from Florida. And then you go to New Jersey and give any test to 30. It in college was very off of a. Do what you got to do. If that's, if that's the game that you need to play. You see cats in a lot of these far flung locations because you, you know, and the heat. A little less heat on you in some of those places when you make those moves. Nah, it's everywhere now. It's everywhere now. And in the NFL. Look, you still have. Well, it's interesting now because the Giants win.

[Michael Smith]

I was just thinking about them. Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

The Giants who have had a. Who Dino Smith. That one game was the Giants first black starting quarterback.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Tod Taylor got some run after, you know, behind after Daniel Jones got hurt. He got a couple games before they went to the Tommy DeVito situation. But they're one of those teams that wasn't doing that. Jordan Love is the first time that the packers have had a black quarterback. What I would call on purpose. Right, Right. Brett Hundley has started some games. Sen. Wallace, they gotten out there. But.

[Michael Smith]

But it's almost like. But it's almost like you excuse that because. Okay, they have Farvin and Rogers, it's like, okay, is it what you gonna do?

[Bomani Jones]

Exactly. The idea of a black quarterback didn't become a thing until the 1990s.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Therefore, in the time that we thought about that. You can't be mad at them. They had Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. You could say that to a lesser degree about the Giants, although when they did start Geno Smith, they then fired the coach for doing such a thing. But it's always. There's still pockets where it's like, yeah, we'll see. I know the idea, for example, the idea that the Giants are going to draft Shador Sanders at any point, I was like, guys, yeah.

[Michael Smith]

You know, you, you must not know the history of this organization. And it's only.

[Bomani Jones]

So I say that so that people understand that what we're saying is it ain't all awl good, right? No, we know it's not all good.

[Michael Smith]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

But it is a hell of a lot different.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah. And I mean, tomorrow somebody will say or do some shit, you know? You know, I mean, it's just. It's around the corner. It's always around the corner. But no.

I just, I think about some of the guys that.

Like how they would have been received in today's game that, see, you and I are getting to that age where something that feels like a long time ago was really just yesterday. Right. And so I think about the guy that comes to mind for me is Cordell Stewart. Like that whole slash thing, like, what kind of quarterback would Cordell Stewart be now? Or how would he be viewed now? How would he be utilized in today's game? You know, there was so many guys who played this way that were denied opportunities because as you said earlier, the league hadn't caught up to them. They were too far. They were, they were. They were born out of time. They were ahead of their time. It's really quite, quite tragic. I mean, I think Warren Moon, because Warren Moon was my. You talk about seeing with your chest. Warren Moon threw it with his chest. Warren Moon. I tried to throw like Warren Moon my whole childhood. He was my favorite quarterback to watch throw a football. Does he still, I'm not mistaken, have more professional passing yards than anybody? When you combine CFL, I think Tom.

[Bomani Jones]

Brady's 100 year old ass might have got him.

[Michael Smith]

Okay. All right.

[Bomani Jones]

He might.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, that makes sense. But for the longest time, the most prolific passing quarterback of all time, yardage wise, is Warren Moon, but had to spend the early part of his prime in a cfl, you know, because they literally wouldn't Wouldn't draft the, you know, best quarterback in the country or in pack eight.

[Bomani Jones]

Okay. So Cordell Stewart.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah. Who is from New Orleans. Louisiana, baby. Okay. From the west bank, by the way, across the river.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah. I wonder why he didn't go to lsu. Neither here nor there.

[Michael Smith]

I'll be trying to tell people how we. We did not get down with LSU when I was.

[Bomani Jones]

Yo, yo, that is a. That is an under. It was in the 20. That is Nick Saban's greatest feat.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Is what he did for LSU football in terms of. Hey, man, this segregation bag is not.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Like I said, at some point, somebody come in and say, I thought y' all wanted to win. Right.

[Michael Smith]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

But Cordell Stewart went to Colorado, where he was an excellent college quarterback who quarterbacked excellent teams. And they, you know, there's a lot of formation, a lot of option there, but they threw the ball. Like the most famous play of Cordell Stewart at Colorado was to throw to Michael Westbrook at the big huts. Right. And that was a hell of a throw.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Cordell Stewart, to me, is a forgotten figure in that. I think that he is the connective tissue of history between. And I'm taking Moon out of this. And you'll understand why when I say it. I think between Randall Cunningham and Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick, that generation of guys. If you go back and look at clips of Cordell Stewart, the thing I don't think I properly appreciated at the time was how absurdly athletic he was, because I thought of him much more as a guy who could just throw the ball. But when you look at some of the plays that he was capable of making and the things that he was doing. Randall Cunningham was a dual threat because he could run. But it. They weren't like, they weren't doing a lot of deploying of him in the run game. It wasn't used as a strategic weapon. He also took way too many sack yards. There is a blessing and curse of the style of Randall Cunningham's play, which is really fun to watch. Right.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

The Steelers use Stewart as a weapon. And please let us not forget they went to an AFC Championship game with Cordell Stewart as their starting quarterback. His start. His record as a starting quarterback was. Was 50 and 34. They had that 97 season. I want to say they went to the AFC championship game where they lost to the Broncos, but in 01 and. And two different seasons, that was the.

[Michael Smith]

P. That was the Patriots one. He was going to go home to New Orleans. That was the story. Because that super bowl was in New.

[Bomani Jones]

Orleans, Super Bowl 36, two different seasons. Cordell Stewart was a starting quarterback in the AFC Championship game.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, man, that's a thing. Like, I think it's so easy to forget him because again, like other brothers in that situation.

After he got a little bit bad, they got about the league.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, yeah. And then I think about Pittsburgh, I think about how intentional we still have to be, not just with our conversation, but also just with some of these moves. Like, Mike Tomlin has had all black quarterback rooms.

Going back to earlier, you talk about, like backups, guys being paid to be backups. And. And by the way, backup quarterback is such a lucrative career path. And you could do it. Yeah. Like, everybody wants to be the starting quarterback. If you could hang around for a bunch of years as a backup quarterback, you'll make generational wealth because. But all jokes aside, like, and I'm serious about this backup quarterback that there was. There was backup quarterback. They were not going to have you start, you know, Jefferson Street Joe, you know, because we're going to start Terry Bradshaw versus, like, you know, hey, we want you to be the backup. The backup quarterback is a very important position in terms of preparation, in terms of just navigating the quarterback room, in terms of internal politics. So you got a black backup quarterback. That's not just because he ain't good enough. That's a strategically assigned position. It takes. It takes a certain type of person to have longevity in that role. But Mike Tomlin has had all black quarterback rooms. I think another frontier that's necessary to continue to push is black quarterback coaches, because that quarterback coach is the pipeline. So it's still. There's still so much progress necessary for head coach in the NFL. So the more we can get the Byron Lepiches of the world to transition from being a quarterback to being a quarterback coach and hopefully a head coach. I know he's still waiting on that ladder. Opportunity. That's another frontier, another area of progress that needs to be attacked.

[Bomani Jones]

Well, an important note that you made there and regular right time listeners know what I'm about to talk about right now. One of the best things about having the proliferation of the black starting quarterback is that it then meant the proliferation of the black backup quarterback. Because if you are a team and you have a black starting quarterback in whom you believe, then the only way to keep the white people off of his keister is to have a black backup quarterback. If you have any. If it. You can have any white man in town as the backup quarterback, he could be the president of the city council. If you got any white man in town, in town behind him. Oh, no, no, it's gonna be a thing. Like, there was a point at which where I felt like the packers got it and then I felt like they didn't. I was like, man, you better get you. He better go get you one of the blackups, baby. You gotta go do that. But, but the idea that like, so Tod Taylor became bridge starter guy, right? Which has to be an insulting job to have. But like, he was, you know, such terrible luck. He was the bridge starter ahead of Baker Field. And then when the Chargers poke a hole in his lungs so he could go play with a broken rib. Let's talk about that in the first place. Like, what that tells me now is ain't no B playing with broken ribs. We done with that. Like, I treat that. Like we got to treat calf strains after what happened to Tyrese Halber.

[Michael Smith]

That's exactly right.

[Bomani Jones]

Oh, no, we ain't doing this.

[Michael Smith]

Cash strains now. Yeah, no doubt.

[Bomani Jones]

But that's, I mean, this, it's. It's been a fascinating journey to think about. And I think about, like Dominique and I always talk about how we got enough black quarterbacks now that we ain't got to lie, right? Like, my daddy ain't got to pretend like Tony Banks is better than he was. We don't have to, We. We don't have to masquerade in this. But I do kind of like think back on some of the dudes and wonder some of the cats were like, if things had gone a little bit different, if the times had been a little bit different. Like, I'll give you an example. Michael Vick is still to be in large part of what if. Now, of course, many of his problems were self inflicted, right? Like just general negligence and outright stupidity on his part. Right. But at the same time, if you go back and watch that Virginia Tech offense that they ran, it was prehistoric. He was not at all prepared to play quarterback in the NFL. But I remember that. You remember that first year, but really like that first month when Chip Kelly was with the Eagles and, and they were putting that offense on the road and it was Michael Vick. Can you imagine if a 23 year old Michael Vick would have been deployed in a Chip Kelly offense?

[Michael Smith]

I think.

The black quarterbacks who've been successful.

You can't overstate because people look at the obvious when it comes to like, oh, you know, the racism, the racial epithets, the hate mail, the booing, you know, the Overt discrimination. But like, man, like, doing. Having to do your job when you can't do that job by being yourself, like, you got to show up and be somebody else. Like, that amount of pressure, that amount, for lack of a better phrase, the mind fuck that had to take place. Whether it was, you know, Michael Vick, whether It was Donovan McNabb being criticized because, you know, hey, you know, you can't do it from the pocket. And then them trying, because I know McNabb in particular struck like, they would not run. So. And like, just to prove that they could pray from the pocket, like, they constantly had to basically defend themselves. And I'm not talking about verbally, I'm talking about, like, stop themselves from using their best weapon in order to shut critics up. Like, so the people that had to endure that kind of thing or just had offenses that would. That would. That would handcuff them and hamstring them from being the best they could be. And then when they weren't great, then they, like you said, they yanked her out of the league. Like, all these dudes we naming, like, not only were they, you know, were they limited in terms of how long of a chance they got, but how good could they have been on top of how good they were if they were just been unleashed?

[Bomani Jones]

Well, I also feel like to a degree, we learned that a lot of what they had been saying was lies, right? And what I mean by that is Cam Newton proved that you could go for running a spread offense in college and that dude. And learn. And learn how to learn how to. It was 401, I believe, but you could. You learned that you could learn how to run an offense in the pros after doing that. And that was the whole thing where you're not gonna be smart, do this. If you do this too much, you'll get hurt. Like, it was. It was, I guess, a lot of concern. Concern trolling, it would be the term that a lot of people use. But we found out, like, the idea that being fast was a bad thing.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Is crazy. Unless you're John Elway. Right. But to be fair to the old logic, I do think that history has borne out and it's been true. You do need to be able to do it from the pocket, right? Like, no question the problem was acting like being fast was a problem in and of itself. Right? But when you hear somebody like Steve Young talk about, I had to learn to stand there and do it, and Steve Young to this day is the best athletic quarterback in the history of the NFL, right? Like, I don't, I don't think we have.

[Michael Smith]

I don't know that I've been qualified. Like Steve Young, circa 1993. 99, 2, 3, 4, 5. Might have been the best four year stretch I've ever seen a quarterback play.

[Bomani Jones]

Right. It absolutely is. But it is so funny because a guy that absolutely saw the value of mobility in your quarterback was Walsh.

[Michael Smith]

Yes, he did.

[Bomani Jones]

Montana was not Steve Young, obviously. But part of the appeal of Montana was his ability to get out, buy some time, roll out, pick up some yards when you needed them and get it done. And so this idea that being able to move was a problem. And since they think, Think they could all dance, think they could all run, whatever it is, you know what I'm saying? And that's how you wide and that's how you wind up in a world where Lamar Jackson has to not run the 40.

[Michael Smith]

I also was thinking about your question earlier about like trying to pinpoint inflection points. I know this precedes 2001.

But if since we're kind of going a little farther back Anyway, go ahead. McNair not only getting drafted, was it third? Was it? Yeah, third overall. But out of an HBCU at that. You know what I'm saying?

But other HBCU quarterbacks, obviously, to be clear, Shaq, Karen, stuff, Williams is a long list, but third overall in the modern NFL from an hbcu. That's, that's, that's, that was, that was another big deal at the time.

[Bomani Jones]

And. Well, also what is interesting about McNabb is I think. And you could pull up rushing yard numbers all you want. That's fine. People think of McNabb or McNair. McNair. I'm sorry.

[Michael Smith]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

People think of McNair as a running quarterback in a way that I do not because I saw him play at Alcorn. They were dropping back with eight, nine wide receivers if they could, and just throwing the ball 70, 80, slinging it. Yeah, yeah. I don't think people. I think people who had heard about McNair at Alcorn, I don't think they really had a true idea of what kind of pass player he was. And he was a passer. That was, it was Air McNair not running McNair.

[Michael Smith]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

Not ground air.

[Michael Smith]

Not FedEx brown. It was Air McNair.

[Bomani Jones]

It was Air McNair. And then once he got to the league, as could happen from time to time, you get more running with him. Case in point North Turner having Teddy Bridgewater run The zone read.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, that's. Yeah. When you said him earlier, I was thinking about Bridgewater. Like, what could he have been if he not blown out his knees?

Was like. I had a thought about McNair when you were talking about. I lost it. It'll come back. Yeah, I'm getting old. You said something about McNair and I had. And I had a thought that I wanted. I want to chime in with, but I just lost it.

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, Steve McNair this close to being a Super bowl champion. Think about this one yard more. He's a Super bowl champion and maybe in the hall of Fame and Kurt Warner is not.

I think McNear would be a fringe hall of Fame case at best. But he would have a Super bowl ring. Well, you know, Kurt Warner without that ring is not in the Super Bowl. It's not in the hall of Fame.

[Michael Smith]

You know how cold you gotta be to steal half an MVP from Peyton Manning?

[Bomani Jones]

Yes, he did.

[Michael Smith]

I mean, Steve McNeil so cold. They said, you know what, Peyton, you gonna have to share this joint or.

[Bomani Jones]

You might need to go with.

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[Bomani Jones]

Not even gonna lie. That is one of many moments that I believe that if I were a white person and I was trying to compile by c. Racism is over. Listen.

That would be on the list. It'd be right there with Adrian Peterson, 2012 NFL MVP.

[Michael Smith]

Right?

[Home Depot Announcer]

Like.

[Bomani Jones]

Like, see, there it is. Like, I need to stop giving you white people material. Not all white people, just the ones that would be looking for it.

[Michael Smith]

But make the. McNaira is all afraid, but yeah, I mean, with a Super bowl win, an MVP under his belt.

The numbers he compiled, the way he won. Toughest, toughest quarterback. He don't take a backseat to anybody when it comes to toughness. Dude, dude would not practice all week, be in the training room all week on the trainer's table, barely, barely moving and go out there and put his body on the line. So yeah, man, he was. You remember just apropos or nothing, you remember going to them dances, taking the pictures with the fellas? Remember that Oilers number nine? How cold that was? Oh, man, yeah. That's back in my jersey collecting days. I just had a flashback of that.

[Bomani Jones]

I now imagine Michael Smith in front of a blanket with a picture of Alexis on it, where he is Steve McNair, number nine jersey with Picture Me.

[Michael Smith]

Rolling on the TV.

I had my daughter cracking up the other day. I was talking about the after exam jam, the them dances in high school, man. Bruh, bring it back.

[Bomani Jones]

See, that's right. Cause you from one of them dancing cities. I'm from Houston. Houston is not a dancing city.

[Michael Smith]

It's not. Y' all ain't have talent shows called the Explosion, Brother, we had talent shows. We had all.

[Bomani Jones]

Brother. I don't feel confident using the appropriate language necessary to explain the way that I believe that men in Houston view dancing, who is supposed to do it and why they are supposed to do it. But if you look up the only song in Houston about a dance, it was the south side. And it is not a dance. It is simply moving your hands to either side to the beat. We are not. We are not. And like, I got to Atlanta and I'm like, what are all these men out here doing dancing?

[Michael Smith]

Well, just to be clear, just. Because when I say dance, I don't mean I was dead. I mean like a sock hop as the old folks.

[Bomani Jones]

No, Dawn, I know, I know. In the hot ass gym. I get that. Oh, I get you there. But then when you like. But you talk about, like, like explosion or whatever.

[Michael Smith]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I couldn't do it.

[Bomani Jones]

Now.

[Michael Smith]

This go. This gonna shock you.

[Bomani Jones]

But I'm saying. But at least you knew it. No, brother, brother, I'm just saying this and. But, but when you talk about the fact that, oh, the fellas might have a dance group. No, no, no, that didn't happen there. Let me tell you something funny right fast before we go. You talk about not being able to dance. I can't dance either. I can't dance to save my life.

[Michael Smith]

Right, me neither.

[Bomani Jones]

And I was talking to a good friend of mine, and he was talking about how his son can't dance and he can't dance. But he had to have a hard conversation with him, which is, as long as you're gonna be black, brother, there is no opting out of the dancing. If you had a party and it's a girl and you try to make it happen, you're going to have to dance at some point.

There's no. You don't get to say, I don't do that. That is not on the board. And unlike white people, you will be judged. You need to know that, too. You can't dance. You will be judged. White privilege is the dance floor. Do whatever you want. The beat is what you say the beat is. That's what's going on there. But, brother, you go, you gonna have to. You gonna have to get out there and do it. I feel like you can opt out of the Electric Slide or any other country ass line dances. You don't have to do that. But the other stuff. Nah, brother, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to get in there just a little bit.

[Michael Smith]

Hey, listen, all I'm gonna say is, man, you don't you want to laugh? I mean, people have seen me dance before. It's, it's. They laughing at me, not with me. Let's put it that way.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, people have seen it. Nah, like I said, my favorite dance move used to be when you pull your T shirt up a little bit. That was the, that, that was the. That was the best dance move I had to offer. Really?

[Michael Smith]

Switching your body from side to side.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah.

I got a lot, brother. I ain't gotta, like. I, I'm good at math though. You know what I'm saying? There you go.

[Michael Smith]

You're good at this. You're good at this talking thing.

[Bomani Jones]

That's right, that's right, that's right. If we could go somewhere without all this loud ass music, I could regale you with all kinds of charms. Instead you out here dropping it and I'm trying not to fall.

[Michael Smith]

That's what's up, man. It's always a pleasure talking to you, bro.

[Bomani Jones]

Appreciate you, man. Michael Smith, my brother. I will talk to you soon.

[Michael Smith]

I always feel like I go down memory lane. If we'd have grown up together, man, we'd have grown up here.

[Bomani Jones]

To be perfectly honest, it worked out well. They wrote a Jet magazine article about two brothers of the same block. Look, look, look how far they don't come.

[Michael Smith]

No doubt. Love you, man. Appreciate you.

[Bomani Jones]

Love you too, brother. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the Right Time. We do this thing three times a week. Ryan Brumley handling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. And we'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.

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