← The Right Time with Bomani Jones
The Right Time with Bomani Jones
Tom Haberstroh on Victor Wembanyama arrival, Hornets-Pistons Brawl, NBA's Tanking Disaster | 02.11
01:11:09
Loading summary
Transcript147 lines
- [00:01]
Bomani Jones
5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius.
- [00:03]
Tom Haberstroh
Energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing.
- [00:15]
Bomani Jones
Celsius Live fit.
- [00:17]
Tom Haberstroh
Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com.
- [00:30]
Bomani Jones
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time A Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is that time of week where we have a guest join us coming to us from Yahoo. Sports. Also check out his newsletter, Tom the Finder. Tom Haberstrough. What's going on, brother?
- [00:55]
Tom Haberstroh
What's going on, Bomani?
- [00:56]
Bomani Jones
Good to be here. Doing all right. I use brother intentionally because it is very interesting, bro. When we go into our YouTube comments sometimes and we have this run of comments that I will read to you if you have not seen it starts with. Okay, I'll say it. Tom Hab looks like a brother with a beard. Brother spelled B R O T H A. That is followed by agreed. But A all caps. Very light skinned brother. Which was followed by honestly. I had this on mute and was like, oh, this is a new brother. Also spelled B R O T H A. Then he said it was Tom and I flummoxed. Parenthesis S I, C parenthesis. He's not question mark. We have that below. That is. I honestly thought he was high yellow. And then it caps with Tyrell Haberstro.
- [01:49]
Tom Haberstroh
Tyrell Haberstro. Okay, I. I gotta tell you, I don't think there's an Isaiah Hartenstein thing going on in my family, but I have to go dig deep into an.
- [01:59]
Bomani Jones
I think I'm just saying brother. I was hanging out with you in Gardena, Compton. I can't remember which one. You look right at home, baby.
- [02:06]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah. Shout outs to Trey.
- [02:08]
Bomani Jones
Yeah.
- [02:08]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah. That was a. That was a good time. I had a great time at that. This is, this is new for me, Bomani. This is new for me. So I appreciate all the love in the chat, for sure. Yeah, man.
- [02:17]
Bomani Jones
Just letting you know. You know what I'm saying. You've been out here hanging out with a few of us just long enough. You know what I mean? That like little overlap. Little overlap. Maybe, just maybe. First, I forgot to tell you I wanted to ask you about this because we were talking on Wednesday morning and it just happened. Victor Wimbayama put up 37 in the first half against like a skeleton crew of Lakers because the Lakers were down a lot at the same time. It was 37 points in the first half. Yeah, yeah.
- [02:49]
Tom Haberstroh
I mean, Bomani, the takeover is here. And I don't know if you caught this before the game. Mitch, Mitch Johnson, the coach, he said, hey, I just want to let you all know, I noticed that he's the only All Star this year, dear. And Fox is not an All Star. You don't think Stefan Castle's an All Star? I'm inclined to believe that. The only reason why you don't believe those are All Stars because you think Wimby's the mvp. And I was like, oh, Mitch is out here. Like, I was, I was like, that was a. That was an amazing line. I was sitting here saying, he's really thought about that. He. He actually detoured. It wasn't even like a prompted question, was like, hey, what do you think? And the only one All Star, he, he went there because he wants people to see who Wemby is. He believes Wemby is the most valuable player in the league. And after the game, after he got his ass kicked, JJ Redick said, he's one of the top five players in the league for a reason. And I'm like, the way he played, he was top five all time. The way he played against the Lakers, like 27 points in the first half. He scored 17 straight points. And it wasn't like classic Shaq, where they were, they were throwing it down into the post and no one could stop him. He was getting it in every single way possible at the three point line, off the belt, off the backboards here in Fox at one point just kicked it off the backboard in a fast break. It was every single button he pressed on 2K. He finished it and it was just, it was incredible. And I, I gotta tell you, Bomani, we're looking at Shay Gil Just Alexander sidelined right now. Luca Doncha. Luka Doncic is sidelined right now because he's hurt. I'm seeing these prediction markets and whatnot. Not even having Victor Wembanyama on the board for mvp. And I am with Mitch Johnson. I think it is very underrated his case considering the San Antonio spurs have a very like, Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls vibe to them this year where they're coming out of nowhere and the young guy is, is making a statement. And I feel like if Shea Gil just Alexander Misses additional time like after the All Star break with this abdominal strain and suddenly OKC in San Antonio right there, neck and neck. We are going to be collectively talking about Wemby MVP and it's not just going to be on this show on February 11th.
- [04:54]
Bomani Jones
All right, so where I think the Derrick Rose comparison is interesting, it's where I would agree with it, but also where I would disagree. Right. The part where I think I would be inclined to disagree is that was a team who's like number two and number three players are Jokim Nowhere and Carlos Boozer. And I feel like it's a little different with Castle as being the guy that's. That that's next to him, not. Noah was a very good player, like a very good defensive player obviously and Boozer was a very good burly man. But neither of them, I think the spurs have options next to Victor with Fox also that are a little bit more dynamic. Right. And so, but where I do agree and where I think it's interesting is that I talk about this fairly often on this show that the one statistic that is proven to be the most clear predictor of who will be an MVP is win shares per 48 minutes. It maps out just about every year. And when it doesn't map out, it is behind what I will often call a narrative MVP case. Case in point, Steve Nash in those two years in Phoenix where you could make the argument that he was at times the second and third best player on his own team. But when he showed up, everything changed. Derrick Rose is a case like that. Russell Westbrook keeping the Thunder where they were in 2017 when the win shares for 48 winner that year was actually Kevin Durant. Like there's a surrounding, there's something surrounding. And I'm not saying that to minimize the case for MVP for these guys, but just to say what takes us there becomes something different. I'm watching a 21, 22 year old dude completely overhauled the culture of an NBA team where you could talk about the five championships. The spurs have been dog for years, right? Like, like we, we really downplayed it because we like pop, right. But anybody else would have got fired years ago behind like we were like so when is this going to turn around? If they hadn't gotten Victor, I have no idea when it is that they actually would have turned good. They got the, the European soccer fan section that he decided that they needed to have and he's out there banging on the drums. If you hear the guys on the team talk about Him. We went from year one where we're like, yeah, why don't you pass the ball to the 8 foot tall guy that's open all the time now. They talk about him like, he's like, like, we follow you. Like you are, you are. He went and hung out with them monks and apparently he picked up on some game and now everything revolves around him. And we remember when we went from being like, yo, the Thunder could win 75 games, which was a real fair point to, you know, the spurs might be able to get them and that. To me, that's the MVP case right there.
- [07:41]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, he is the OKC slayer. I mean, they're 4 and 1 against OKC this season and it's like, man, he hates Chet Holmgren. I love this about Victor Wembanyama. I love it and we'll talk about it later maybe, but I love when these guys really care, really care and they stand on their turf and they're like, I, I'm here for this. And Victor Wembanyama is here for this. And he is, he's out here saying, I think it's good to be greedy. After that game last night. Like he said after getting, you know, 40 points in 26 minutes, the most. Here was the stat, the, the fewest number of minutes to finish with 40 points since Sleepy Floyd, which we all.
- [08:22]
Bomani Jones
Gave in like 87.
- [08:24]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, it's been 40 years since someone put up 40 in 26. Right. So Bomani, after that, people said, you know, what did you think about your performance? He's like, I, I think it's good to be greedy. Like, I think it's good to be out here and, and taking everything when it's in front of me. And he also said after the game how the All Star game is gonna, he's gonna try real hard. And you're saying he's a savior for the Spurs. I would take it one step further. He has a chance to save the NBA with the way he's approaching all of these games because he cares about, he clearly cares and this stuff means something. And I think he's, he's, he's pointing out a lot of things about the NBA product that needs improvement in ways that you're not hearing from the American guys in the same way. And I do think he is the perfect right now, the perfect candidate to kind of usher in this new era post KD, post Steph, post LeBron. Because he's new, he's different. He's a product unto himself that my, my six year old daughter can flip on the TV and be like, ooh, who is that guy?
- [09:25]
Bomani Jones
Right?
- [09:25]
Tom Haberstroh
And I think he's got this appeal and he's about the right things. And if he turns this All Star Game into a competitive game, then all bets are off. All bets are off. With when we. Victor, we.
- [09:35]
Bomani Jones
It's so interesting you say about the All Star Game, because me and the homie Rod Black guy who tips, we, we always, we have been looking at him now for like two years, like, oh, we've got the one, right? Like, I talked to a veteran on the spurs and early in the year and he was like, he's the one. Like, like, they like, it's, it's, it's, it's obvious and it's immediately clear to everybody around, right, that he's that dude. But, but we talked about what if he's the guy that could turn the All Star Game into something. Because the trick bag about it is, dude him in the All Star Game. I can't imagine how annoying that is going to be for the people who are not on his program where he's decided, we're going to make this a real game. And I mean, the dudes on the other team, obviously, you can't just be out here pitching my shit in the All Star Game. What are you talking about?
- [10:20]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, yeah, it's like when you're trying to play pickup with the guys and, and one guy is just fouling hard, taking charges, diving out of bounds, like, going after. You're like, Yo, I'm 40 years old. I can't be out here doing this. Like, he's like, literally, there will be 40 year olds out there in the game and he's going to be 21 and trying to take over everything, going super hard. So, you know, will people follow in line? I mean, we're not seeing Steph in the game. There's no Shay Gildress Alexander. There's no we're going to see about Giannis, which is an interesting little dynamic is what if Giannis decides I'm going to go play in the All Star Game, but the Bucks won't let me play in regular games? Uh, this is going to be kind of a weird injury trodden All Star Game where he can come out and make a statement and it's going to be Team World versus two teams of American teams. I don't think it's going to work as well as it could because I think Team World is going to embarrass Team usa. The two teams that are diluted to Two different teams. If it was just the best American guys going against the best international guys, I think I, I would be very into that game. But when you diluting the American team and then there's a couple guys missing on the international team, I just wish we would get everybody going at once.
- [11:28]
Bomani Jones
You know, with the spurs and the idea of, like, caring, because that's always. It's a trick bag when you start talking about the NBA in these terms because of the historical rhetoric that has surrounded the league forever, right? It's hard to get as far as these guys get without caring in some way. I think what has changed over the years because of the professionalization of youth sports is they care about different stuff, right? Like, it's a league full of. I'm a businessman, right? And they've been this way since they were 14 years old or whatever, right? That, that, that there's an effect that comes from that. You know, that that happens. It's not about whether or not guys care. We want crazy people, right? Like, we don't simply want somebody dedicated to a hard day's work. And I'm going to do my job as it is required. No, this game is powered by crazy people. Maybe not everybody is a crazy person, but we got to have a few crazy people out here, different types of crazy people, right? Victor is the crazy person that you. We. I'm trying to think the last time that we had a guy that was really this high up in it. Giannis is kind of sort of this variety of crazy person. He just can make it difficult to like him. He's becoming. I don't know how you say Dwight Howard in Greek, but, you know, that's, that, that's where we're going. But if we get an actual, factual crazy person, like Michael Jordan crazy person. Kobe Bryant crazy person.
- [13:02]
Tom Haberstroh
Wemby is the guy who goes to the, the park in New York City and just wants to beat up on kids on chess, you know, like, he, he's out. He said it in the quote last night. He's like, I, I, I can't. I want to win everything. I want to win the All Star Game. I want to win a board game. He's out here saying that he wants to win shoots and ladders and just doesn't matter. He wants to win that and Steph Curry's the same way. And that's why they're. They're on the pantheon, right? That's why they're there is because they are unhinged in a way that might be unhealthy in other contexts, but on the basketball court, in order for you to bring it at 21 years old at that size, doing splits on the sidelines because you're like, I, hey, whatever Kareem did with yoga and stuff, I'm gonna, I want to play till I'm 48 years old. And that's what Victor Wembanyama does. And man, the spurs, they're over under this year. Coming into this year, their Vegas over under win projection was 44 and a half. And they're going to get that in like a couple weeks. They are exceeding expectations way, way earlier than everyone expected. And I think it's because, yeah, they got de' Aaron Fox and Stefan Castle was accelerated. He got a 40 point triple double the other night. But I think everybody's following Victor Wembanyama. The reason why Rich Paul wanted de' Aaron Fox in San Antonio was not because of the Riverwalk. It was because of Big Vic. And I think the league needs to put everything behind Victor Wembanyama. And I've been saying it here on this program like I, I agree. I think he is capital T, capital O, the one.
- [14:32]
Bomani Jones
How do we get him and Chet to fight? Because one thing I do love also is the other. Spurs have come to hate Chad also. Like they like he, he, his, his hatred of Chet, which again, so hilarious. I don't feel like Chet hates him back in the same way. And how do we like me? I think me and Dominique talked about this. It'll look like Dawson vs. Daw scene where they just standing on the other side of the screen and just rubber band arms shooting across. But how do we get this fight to happen? Because you know, at least one of the like Victor would love to fight Chet.
- [15:03]
Tom Haberstroh
Hey, maybe it's the All Star Game because Mark Dagno, I don't think is is here for a fight on the Oklahoma City Thunder. But if it's All Star Game, if his coach isn't there, like, maybe he's actually Chet's like, all right, well, in the Cat's Away the, the mice will play. Like, I think maybe Chad Holmgren in the All Star Game might take it personally. Maybe not this year, but maybe down the line. I think, look, I think it's really interesting where the NBA is right now. And I do think that fighting, right. Bomani is something that has been lost over the last 10, 15 years in the league. We haven't seen fights all that, all that much. But I actually think that when Victor Wembanyama is calling out Chet like, personally and saying, don't you love to watch ethical hoops and calling out Shay Gilgames Alexander? This sort of WWE talking shit to the other team, I think is actually great for the league. And even if it crosses a line where there's fights out on the floor, I actually think the signal that it sells to fans is that these players are passionate about this. And the jerseys where I'm playing, it actually matters because the turnover in the league has been so much over the last 10 years. And we can say, hey, player empowerment is great, but it also diluted, I think, of the bonds between the players and the organizations and the teams. And so when Victor Wembanyama is coming out here and saying, like, I hate this team, I think we've. I think we took for granted how guys staying with one team for their entire careers, while it might have been unfair from a labor standpoint, I think it did build bonds with the city, with the team, with the region. And I do think we've lost that. And I'm hoping that we kind of, I don't know, revitalize that a little bit in the league right now.
- [16:45]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, I think the key on that one was staying with the teams is part of it. I've always. I feel like player empowerment has been a bit overstated. And in the end, what it has proven to be is a. Is, I think, as you put it, is a dilution of trust between these two entities. And they're no longer, with the exception of Steph Curry. You don't really see them together in that way. Like, it's weird that LeBron James is in year eight of being a Laker, and they just kind of know each other, right? Like. Like that. Like, you know. You know, like, that's a. That's a weird thing. And I think you're right in him caring all of it. All of it's been that he's been demonstrating is important. And the fighting part, I think these cats been playing for money for so long, right? Like, it used to be you got into it playing for whatever it was, and then one day you play for money. But you are kind of foreigned by the idea that you playing for the reasons that you play, which is often because you are a little crazy person. You like the competition, whatever it is, maybe because you like to fight. You know, that whole range of things, that's where you are. It is kind of weird that somebody like Victor, who has obviously been groomed for this, still took on the feelings of, I'm in this for other reasons. Like he's the guy that goes and hangs out with the Monks, right? Like he's different. But I want to make a transition where he brought up fighting because we just had a doozy the other night where the Hornets and the Pistons got into a fight. And I would like to point out, number one, that the Pistons appear to have a bunch of those guys, like guys who seem to be ready to fight, which they. I didn't know we were still making them in these quantities. They seem to have them. And of course it is thereby perfect that they wind up playing for the Pistons, the franchise that, like, that's the brand, right? This is Detroit versus everybody. This is what it is. And it looked like in Charlotte they were ready to take on everybody, including the homie, Big Stew or Beef Stew, that's what they call him. Beef Stew. Isaiah Stewart. And if you guys aren't familiar with Isaiah Stewart, he tried to fight LeBron.
- [18:45]
Tom Haberstroh
No, not just tried. Tried many times to fight him.
- [18:48]
Bomani Jones
Yes, yes. LeBron hit him in the face. And what Isaiah Stewart appears to be is a man of principle. And when, when certain principles have been violated, he's ready to fight. I also think forgotten about him as I talk about these guys, we playing for money too long. He was like the number two recruit in his class coming out of high school. Like, this is a five star guy. This is not some hard Scrabble. This is what I had to get here. No, he just believes that fighting is a thing that you do sometimes. That one white dude for the Suns called the police on him because apparently Beef Stewart decided it was on site with him every time. And that white man knew only solution he had was to call the police. They were out there in Charlotte. It was a Jayden Duran that was on the other end.
- [19:30]
Tom Haberstroh
Oh, and Moussa Diabate. And by the way, Musa Diabate and Jalen Duran have a history together. Oh, I didn't know that in high school. Like Musa was at IMG and Jalen Duran, they, they, they were tussling back in high school. So this is a history going way back. So when they're going forehead to forehead, I think there was a lot there. And I didn't realize this until after the fact. So I'm watching this and they, they seemed like they were ready to throw down immediately. And that's what, you know, we saw in Jalen Duran. He, he, yeah, he got his fist ready and he was ready to go like immediately. And I, Isaiah Stewart, the whole time I'm watching this is, I'm like, where's beef stew. Where's beef stew? And then I heard the Stone cold Steve Austin. And here he comes running down the ramp, and he goes into the ring, and he's coming after Miles Bridges, and, man, Miles Bridges ducked. And I am, man, it's like watching the Malice at the palace where. Who was it? Jermaine o' Neal slipped and it was. Yep. Thank God he slipped, because otherwise that guy would have been six feet under. Right.
- [20:40]
Bomani Jones
So Shaq and Brad Miller is my favorite example of that.
- [20:44]
Tom Haberstroh
That's a great call.
- [20:46]
Bomani Jones
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Tom Haberstroh
Where it's just. You're like, oh, Brad Miller is alive to this day because it just didn't. It didn't land in a way that it could have. But Isaiah Stewart came in, and did you notice he had his ice pack still on? Like his.
- [20:59]
Bomani Jones
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Important detail in this.
- [21:03]
Tom Haberstroh
Right.
- [21:03]
Bomani Jones
By the way, when you turn it went back a little bit. You looked a little bit like Carlos Boozer. I see what the YouTube people were talking about.
- [21:08]
Tom Haberstroh
No, no. I've gotten this a bunch of times. Okay. I thought we were going to go there.
- [21:13]
Bomani Jones
That's a touch. Oh, see, you knew. You knew what was going on. So anyway, the fight is going on. So if you picture it and the court is set up, the fight is going on. The ball's going right to left. Right. And so it's two to left where the fight's going on. And it seemed to be settling down. And then next thing you know, right at the midcourt line. And by the way, as this fight is going on, there's great shots of Duncan Robinson. Too old for this. He's like. The veterans are like, yeah, I'm out of here. I'm not fighting. Either they're not fighting for real, or they are fighting for real. Neither of which is my kind of party. So he's walking away. The next thing you know, you just see a flash run across the screen, and it's Isaiah Stewart. If you don't realize this, he's like six, nine. Like, he's a big dude. That flash runs across the screen because Miles Bridges squared up with him. And Isaiah Stewart, man of principle, if you put the hands up, that means it's time for us to fight. Now, the NBA is going to have to suspend beef stew for quite a while because they have the thing about leaving the bench and an antiquated rule. But I was around when it happened. You know, I get it, Tom. This is my thing. There's nothing that Isaiah Stewart could have done to make himself more popular, at least on Twitter in the NBA. Then rushing Miles Bridges, a man who, quite honestly, you can make an argument that there's a place for him in the NBA, right? With some measure of atonement for what he did. And you can look it up and you can see the pictures of what he did to that woman. Like there's just no, there's no making it okay. It was the fact that the Hornets brought him back. Y' all are already sorry. He's not really that good. Why is he here, right? Like you could have very easily made a, you costlessly could have made a very important point by getting that dude out of there, but he's not out of there. And Isaiah Stewart was about to whoop his ass. And if Isaiah Stewart had truly knocked him out, man, they started to go fund me to get him all that money back. He, he, he had become an NBA legend right then.
- [23:18]
Tom Haberstroh
So the thing about Isaiah Stewart in that moment is you're right to point out that he ran off the bench to go do this.
- [23:24]
Bomani Jones
So he, as you said, with ice packs and things on his knees, he did not even bother to take off his bench stuff.
- [23:32]
Tom Haberstroh
He looked like King Tut running out there, right there. The, the bandages were flying off of him. All of theatrical and he, he just, it didn't, it didn't happen the way we thought it was going to happen. The way he was coming down there on like running a 40 yard dash, right? But after the fact, after he went after Miles Bridges, he's walking the locker room and the, and the cameras catch him. He said, you don't expect me to stay on the bunch. The F I was drafted to Detroit for. This is amazing. This is incredible NBA theater. And he knows what he's doing here and he knows why he was brought on the team. But I, if he was on the floor when Jalen Duran got, got into it with Moussa Diabatte, I don't know what's going to happen. Like this is a whole def. Different story. The Miles Bridges thing you brought up. Once Jaren Jackson Jr. Got traded at the deadline, once Trey Young got traded about a month ago, Luka Doncic got traded last year. There's only two guys in that draft class that have remained with their team. And it's Mitchell Robinson of the New York Knicks and it's Miles Bridges. And to your point, it is very stunning that it's. Miles Bridges is the only starter really that has stayed with his team over the last eight years. And I do think Miles Bridges after practice, after the practice the other day, he was asked about the fight, and he said, no one comes into our arena and tries to punk us like that. And I'm sitting there and I'm saying, how many guys are with their team since 2018 to say something like our arena? And Miles Bridges is one of the only vets. There's 14 vets in the league that have stayed with their team since 2018. 11 of them are All Stars or. Sorry, 10 of them are All Star players, and 4 of them are like Miles Bridges, where they're just like veteran guys who have stuck around over the years. And so it is kind of a representative, an illustration of the NBA right now, that when these guys squared up, these were guys who have been with this team their entire careers, and they were. They were ready to go. And I. I think Jalen Duran's going to get suspended. Miles Bridges is going to get suspended. Moussa Diabatte is going to get suspended. But Isaiah Stewart, man, who was. Was a few years back, where it was a suspension, and some of the teammates were like, we'll pay for your suspension. Like, we'll. We'll pay you whatever money you lost. And I think. I think Kate Cunningham and the rest of them, the front office would be wise to make sure that he's taken care of in the end.
- [26:01]
Bomani Jones
Tom, he is a $15 million a year goon.
- [26:06]
Tom Haberstroh
He's more than that, though. Bomani. I don't want to sell him short.
- [26:08]
Bomani Jones
I know that. I know that. But at the same time, he's here to Goon, like. And look, I. I don't want to minimize what it is to Goon. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I don't. I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't. I hope people don't hear that and think that I'm saying that he's not like, a good basketball player or a talented basketball player. But the fact that he's like, why do you think I'm here? A significant part of why I'm here is because I'm out here to Goon, and we ain't got that many goons left, right? Both. Too many guys in this league are good at basketball. I understand that the nerds can't understand the logic behind that, but the truth is, having a goon out here is better. It's better for the aesthetic, is better for the product. They got both things going on at once. He a goon, and he shoots 76% from the free throw line. You understand what I'm saying? Like, like, like he's, he's here to do the thing and basketball is better as a result.
- [27:00]
Tom Haberstroh
And Bomani, I, I'm not just saying this because I'm from Wake. I went to Wake Forest. But everything changed after the Indiana Pacers signed James Johnson.
- [27:10]
Bomani Jones
Everything changed.
- [27:11]
Tom Haberstroh
Tyrese Halliburton, they got in this little tussle with Giannis Anadokounmpo and the next day Kevin Pritchard and Chad Buchanan, the GMs there in Indiana, signed James Johnson to the team and he didn't play a single minute the rest of the year. But everything changed after they signed James Johnson and that's why he was on the Finals roster at the end of the year, last year. Because they need a guy like that to just kind of, you know, be there, right? Just be there and let them know. So I think, I think the fight is interesting. The fact that the Hornets are. We're on a nine game win streak. It's, it's weird in this town, in Charlotte, to, to feel that the kind of vibes around the city after they went to the, after the Panthers went to the playoffs. It's a weird place to be right now, Bomani and Charlotte, but I think it's good for the NBA. I think the NBA needs these kind of rivalries and this physicality because I do think NBA fans secretly crave, like, you know, how human beings secretly like cheese because there's a little bit of funk in it. Like there's, there's something about the decayingness that, that draws people to funky cheese, the blue cheese out there. I do think that in a weird way, NBA fans are craving for these games to matter or the, the, the actual fights, the rivalries to happen again just because it's a signal to the audience that they're passionate about this and they do care about this game.
- [28:31]
Bomani Jones
All right, and coming up next, we'll talk about the people who clearly don't care about that shit. And I'm talking about Danny A. Want to know why betting the Winter Games on FanDuel makes sense? From game lines to metal counts to finding your angle on the events you care about most, FanDuel gives you more ways to stay connected to the action the Winter Games are on. And there's no better way to follow them than with a bet on fanduel. Curling matches that start slow and somehow get tense fast. Speed skating decided by inches. Hockey games that feel different from the opening face off and so much more FanDuel play your game 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and present in D.C. kansas, Wyoming opt in requirement awards are non withdrawable restriction supply including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and max wager amount e terms@sportsdual.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg help for.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24.
- [29:52]
Tom Haberstroh
7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE.
- [29:56]
Bomani Jones
NY or text hopeny in New York. We all have goals for 2026, but who can help us achieve them? It's hard to find people who are so good at what they do. It's like if you're hiring. How can you find the best people for all the different roles on your team? Easy ziprecruiter and right now you can try it for free@ziprecruiter.com Bomani ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to find top talent so you won't waste time or money. You can find out right away how many job seekers in your area are qualified for your role. In ZipRecruiter's advanced resume database, you can instantly unlock top candidates. Contact info let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all of your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. Ziprecruiter.com bomani Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com bomani ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire Ready to.
- [31:03]
Tom Haberstroh
Relax in your dream bath retreat without the stress of figuring out every detail yourself? At the Home Depot, your bath upgrade is covered. Shop fully designed rooms and curated bath collections to go from inspiration to transformation fast. Savings of up to 40% will make it easier on your budget and find everything you need from tubs to toilets and all the tile in between to bring your vision to life. The Home Depot Dream Baths built here New Year, New Me Cute, but how about New Year, New money? With Experian, you can actually take control of your finances, check your FICO score, find ways to save and get matched with credit card offers. Giving you time to power through those New Year's goals you know you're going to crush. Start the year off right. Download the Experian app based on FICO scoring model offers an approval not guaranteed. Eligibility requirements and terms apply subject to credit check which may impact your credit scores. Offers not available in all states. See experian.com for details. Experian.
- [32:04]
Bomani Jones
All right, we are back with Tom Haberstro. All right, NBA fans, I don't know you if I have really talked about this just generally or in in specific terms, but the idea of tanking nauseates me. But at the same time I'm not stupid about it, right? And so when I say that I don't think what the Thunder did after trading Russell Westbrook and Paul George is the same thing as what is going on in Utah right now. For example, I feel like what Presti did was really not terribly different than what happened in the early part of his tenure started with Kevin Durant and Westbrook was when we have a young team, we're going to play the young guys and we're going to see what we can do with them and but we're going to try to win pretty soon. And I feel like the Thunder really only had one year where they were just flat out awful. The next year they were like play in and then the year after that. I want to say they have the number one seed in the west, right? So I think there's a difference between we're going to go young and play these guys versus we're just flatly trying to lose. Like that's the point. And if it looks like we're going to win, we'll do what happened the other night with Utah where they just flat out set all their best players in the fourth quarter of a game because they were going to win and they didn't want to do that.
- [33:23]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, it's a weird place, right? It's a weird place where we're at in the league where Larry Markkanen all Star starter a couple years back, he's averaging 26, 27 points a game. They trade for Jaren Jackson Jr. All Star defensive player of the year and I'm sitting there at the trade that and we did the Kevin o' Connor show in New York last week on Thursday and I'm just sitting here, I'm like, what are they going to plan on doing with Jaren Jackson Jr. Cause we all know what time it is. AJ Debona at BYU is, is in this draft and they have a top eight protected pick. Why are they trading for Jaren Jackson Jr. It didn't make any sense to me. And I was curious to see if he was going to have, you know, turf toe or Achilles tendonitis, something that it was going to knock him out for the rest of the year. But they decided to play him. And then they sat him up 7. Against the Orlando Magic, they just sat him in the fourth quarter, sat Lowry Markin in the fourth quarter. Then against the Miami Heat the other night, same exact story. They sat Lowry Markkin and sat Jaron Jackson Jr. And they were playing great, great basketball together. A little too great. So Will Hardy, the longtime coach there in Utah, said, all right, pulling you. And he did the same thing with Keon George the other night. And they lost the first game. They did not lose the second game. Miami actually lost that game. And Bam Adebayo after the game said maybe the saddest quote I have ever seen in the NBA. He said, we've got to figure out a way to win against teams trying to lose. And I'm like, man, that is. That has got to be a really sad place to be in the NBA where you're playing the Utah Jazz, you know that they're trying to lose and you still lose the game. You can't beat that team. And I want to educate the fans a little bit on this, on the history of tanking, because last year people weren't talking about this, and it blew my mind. Bomani. Last year, the Toronto Raptors, and I think this is part of the puzzle why no one seems to care or doesn't realize that this was happening. Last year, the Toronto Raptors had Scotty Barnes averaging 25 and 5, and they were arresting him in the. In the clutch situations. Last year there was like six straight games where they were in winning time. And they said, scotty, you are sitting on the bench because we got Cooper flag in this upcoming draft. And they tried to tank those games. It did not work for them. They ended up with like the ninth pick in the draft. But the Dallas mavericks went from 10 to one and they got Cooper flag. And after that, I was expecting, oh, like, they didn't get fined. The Toronto Raptors didn't get fined for sitting their best player in crunch time and resting RJ Barrett, Emmanuel Quickley, Yaka, Purdle, their best players sitting them random nights. Okay, there's going to be a copycat somewhere in the league next year, and it's Danny Ainge. Danny Ainge is out here sitting there and watching how that went last year with no fines from the NBA. They said it's okay by the rules. If you play a guy, we're not going to step in and say how many minutes you have to play that guy. And the Utah Jazz are daring the league office to do something about it because they didn't do it about it for the Toronto Raptors last year. But there's one big variable that's different. Boman. The big variable that's different between last year and this year is the gambling scandals. And so Adam Silver, after the gambling scandals, and a lot of those gambling scandals happened because of tanking guys being rested in games in which the public did not know they were going to be rested in those games. And before the public knew about it, there was a gap of time that the gamblers could have that inside information and allegedly go bet those games in the millions of the dollars. Right. That happened a few months ago. And so I'm curious to see if the league office finds some ground in order to penalize what the Utah Jazz are doing, because otherwise it's open season. I think a lot of teams are going to be going the same route if they haven't already.
- [37:18]
Bomani Jones
And keep in mind, it's one thing when teams are doing this in March or April. We're not even at the All Star break. You can't even fucking pretend through President's Day. Like, we can't even go that. Like. Like we can't even go. It is. It goes back to what we talked about. How is anybody else supposed to care? And these guys don't care. Like.
- [37:40]
Tom Haberstroh
Like this.
- [37:41]
Bomani Jones
The. These games are not popular because people can gamble on them. These games are not popular because people want to see the private equity inspired jockeying about getting the pick. Right. The other thing that gets me is that they have tinkered with the lottery odds so much that the likelihood of you getting the number one pick from doing this is not that high. Like, we've seen it over and over again. And oh, by the way, drafts are deeper than ever, and you can get good players later than you have at previous points. Go look at who the superstars in the league are, Victor Wembanyama notwithstanding, and go look at where they were drafted. Like a Cooper flag. You know, obviously looks like he's going in that direction, right?
- [38:21]
Tom Haberstroh
Or you can watch is is backed up statistically is that the best players in the league are not as correlated with their draft position.
- [38:29]
Bomani Jones
For sure, it's not. It's not what it was before. However, this draft is different because people think it's a bunch of them in there. And what you want to do is just kind of land in that top three. And if you land in the top three, it'll work out okay for you. I would simply like to point out that the last time we talked like that was 2014, and we were so sure there were three superstars in that draft. And those three superstars were Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker and Joel Embiid. One of them became a superstar that you ultimately could not trust at the end, and the other two, it didn't go that way.
- [39:04]
Tom Haberstroh
Bomani. I think what is most interesting to me about the flattening of the odds is we're both econ guys, right? So if you flatten the odds, the slope of that curve actually is pretty high around 8, 9 and 10 pick. Why are the Milwaukee Bucks trying to tank these games the rest of the year and Giannis isn't having that? Because they know if we finish in like the 7, 8 and 9, we have a good shot at AJ DeBonsa, we have a good shot of Darren Peterson. We have a solid shot at getting those guys. Ten years ago, they'd have no shot being at the 7, 8, 9 slot getting one of those picks, but now people are talking about the number one pick odds. I'm talking about the number ten pick odds. I'm talking about those guys or in the draft, lottie. The number 10 slot, the number 9 slot, the number 8 slot. They actually have real chances at getting a franchise guy. So why are these teams, Utah, Memphis, Dallas, Milwaukee, all pulling that ripcord? The Clippers were 16, three, Bomani, and they just traded James Harden and Avizia Zubots. Because I think part of it is a we got to figure out a way to tank this year or next year. I know the pick this year is going to okc, but they're trying to figure out, hey, we got to bottom out because some of these, some of these draft years we're going to have here, we, we're, we've got everything lined up with James Harden and Kawhi Leonard. We got it. We got to reset this. I think teams are looking at this draft like it is all time good. But I think what's different is that slope of that curve means that the number six slot, Utah, is currently in the number six slot. The number seven slot, the eight and nine are all going to have a shot at getting one of those top four guys or top five guys, depending on what you look at. And so what the flattening of the odds did it meant that it wasn't a race to the bottom. It was just a larger race. More people are being invited to the race, and that's what I think. The Adam Silver League office did not. There's this thing called unattended consequences. Negative externalities. By flattening the odds. They actually didn't solve tanking. They just created more tankers.
- [41:16]
Bomani Jones
They redirected it. See, this is why I fuck with you. Because you use these numbers in ways that are actually helpful. Right? Like this. Like, the understanding of this is. That was like, thoroughly incredible explanation of the whole situation. I'm sorry. I'm just here to salute.
- [41:33]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, man. Hey, those. The econ degree at Wake Forest, it didn't get me into finance. It didn't get me onto Wall Street.
- [41:39]
Bomani Jones
But sometimes it got you a much happier life.
- [41:42]
Tom Haberstroh
That's. Oh, man.
- [41:44]
Bomani Jones
All.
- [41:44]
Tom Haberstroh
All the time. My buddies who are, you know, out as I bankers or whatnot, you know, they. They reach out to me from time. Even when I was making nothing at ESPN as an intern, they were like, I would trade whatever you're doing in a second. I mean, I'm like, I'm sitting here. You're making six figures right out of college, and you're saying you would trade spots. But it is, man. I'm sitting here talking to you about Victor Wembanyama, 21 years old, and Isaiah Stewart beefing with. With Miles Bridges, and we get paid for this. So I.
- [42:13]
Bomani Jones
And still using the eod.
- [42:15]
Tom Haberstroh
That's right. And so I'm still using it with the draft lottery. And I. I think you're right. You're not hating on Utah in the sense that it's not smart that they're doing this. I think the math is the math. And last year we saw Cooper Flag get drafted by the Dallas Mavericks. Who had the 10th best odds we saw the year before that? Zachary Rea, who I was out on from the start. He actually, number one pick goes to the ninth best odds in the draft lottery. So I think GMs were already looking at the odds, flattening out and saying, like, hey, all we need to do is get in that six to nine range. We'll be good. And now, after two years in a row, that kind of recency bias, even if it is illogical and irrational, I think owners and GMs are seeing Cooper Flag and how he washed away the whole Luka Doncic travesty, washing that away and saying, like, hey, I love Giannis, but, like, can we just get a shot at getting AJ debona or Cam Boozer or Darren Peterson. And I think that's the mentality right now. For the next two plus months, I'll just.
- [43:19]
Bomani Jones
There's only one kind of person who tries to lose. It's called losers. And that is the NBA is. And I believe. And I think this is the other part of why. It's a big part of why it's so problematic that I don't think we discuss enough, which is you create a bunch of players who are losers by doing this too. Like you have these guys, you put them in these environments where you have guys who, for like if, like if you play for Utah every year we hear they gonna trade Walker Kessler. Right. Walker Kessler has just been, has spent basically his NBA career around a bunch of people trying to lose the whole way. You're not going to tell me that doesn't have consequences. You're just not. There's, there's, there's like this is, it is an existential threat to the league because it's a threat to the purpose of the league and the idea that, well, hey, there's a logic behind it. I think it fundamentally misunderstands why we do this in the first place, what is important about this and why people are into it. And maybe like you, a team like Utah, you feel like you can do this because y' all are, I mean, they got a hockey team now, but you're kind of the only game in town. And so when you get good, you think the people are going to show back up. Because understand the Utah Jazz were good for basically 25 straight years. Like they, I mean they were that whole Malone era, even the years after that, they didn't put a lot of bad product out there. I just don't think that you could just consistently put out all this like put out terrible product and have a terrible environment ultimately. And it doesn't have long term effects on your team. Yeah.
- [44:50]
Tom Haberstroh
And I think we, at a certain point we did not have a team that tanked to win the NBA championship. But then we saw Oklahoma City Thunder and you're right, it wasn't a prolonged period. It was two years when they were in the 20s, the wins in the 20s.
- [45:03]
Bomani Jones
Right.
- [45:03]
Tom Haberstroh
There were two years that they were bad, bad, bad. But it wasn't six years.
- [45:08]
Bomani Jones
Right, right.
- [45:09]
Tom Haberstroh
It, it wasn't the, the process. It wasn't Utah right now. So they would be the first, they would be the first to have prolonged three plus years of being in the basement. And I also, it's a weird place in the NBA because the, the incentive structure is such that you're, you're actually the carrot for these bad teams is to continue to be bad because you have a shot at Cooper Flag or a shot at AJ debonza. What it was really weird to me is seeing what the Washington Wizards did at the trade deadline, which is acquire Trey Young and Anthony Davis. Because it felt like to me that they're trying to get back to being on that hamster wheel of mediocrity of in. In the wizards being always 42 wins. Like, the goal is to win 42, 2, 42 games. I did not understand that. Like, the Wizards have been bad for, for a while, but they actually have never won 50 games in the last 50 years.
- [46:00]
Bomani Jones
In my life. I say this every year. I'm now 45 years old, and the Wizards haven't won 50 games in my life.
- [46:10]
Tom Haberstroh
And so you think Trey Young and Anthony Davis are going to do that for you? I'll give you a stat here. Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving played one game together. Porzingis. Everyone was talking about the Atlanta Hawks coming into this year and how they were a sneaky team to win the East. Trey Young and Kristaps Porzingis played three games together. You're telling me that the Wizards are going to make a run next year? Man, I'm out. And Anthony Davis, he hasn't reported or he hasn't played. Seems like he's going to be out for the year. There's a lot of back and forth about whether he's going to be out for the year. But I'm also here. Like, I also don't like that. I don't like that they're trying to chase fif 42 wins with Trey Young and Anthony Davis. I'm not buying that either. So, like, if you're asking me, would rather be a, a Jazz fan, well, I guess they did get Jaren Jackson Jr. Too. If you're, if you're asking me would I rather be, let's say the Brooklyn Nets, right. Or would I rather be the Washington Wizards? That said, all right, we're actually going to try to win next year. I don't feel great about what the Washington Wizards did either. And so there's 10 teams that are in the tank trying to lose this year. But I also don't really love the idea of trying to go get guys to get back to the middle. I just don't see that Jaren Jackson Jr. Is going to be the difference between Utah Jazz being relevant and irrelevant. I still think they're going to be fairly irrelevant next year.
- [47:26]
Bomani Jones
By the way, shout out to you, Jaren Jackson. I don't know what you did to those people in Memphis. I just can't imagine anything more jarring culturally. Maybe Atlanta, but going from there to going to Utah, I just can't. He going to be begging NBA young boy to let him come over there and hang out with him at that, at that compound. I. This is how I feel about the middle. And I think that sometimes, perhaps we could stand to divorce ourselves a little bit from the bottom line. Okay? And I mean this. If you're a Wizards fan, you telling me that you wouldn't mind going back to what it was like when Gilbert was there, Right? You're telling me you wouldn't mind going back to what it was like when John and Brad were there? Because if at very least you guys are having a good time, it was fun, you might not have wanted NAS been a legitimate championship contender. Remember, they had a little rivalry with LeBron, right? They had, you know, playoffs. They were.
- [48:23]
Tom Haberstroh
Those guys, they were. They were born and bred in. In Washington, right. They were drafted by the Wizards. Like, what they're doing now, it just. I don't know, man.
- [48:31]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, I'm just saying. But like, how about put out a fun team, we'll work it out. Like, give people something to enjoy. Because the thing about. I understand the idea everybody wants to win a championship, obviously, the idea that it's a goal to win. Yeah, I get that. But I also think that fundamentally what people really get attached to about teams is not just strictly about the winning part. And so when you sacrifice, when you sacrifice all this time with this intentional losing, you sacrifice goodwill and you sacrifice kind of a warmth that's around the team that you've got. So, like right now, Hornets fans seem very happy with this team that is not going to win a championship. And sure they would like that team to win a championship, but I think people by and large just want a pretty good team that they could like. Memphis grit and grind. Memphis, that's what that was. Now, granted, they had a year. They went to the conference finals, and that's going to power those people for a long time. They have four players whose jerseys I think they'll ultimately retire. And I noticed some people like, well, you can't retire they jerseys, they didn't win nothing. They won the hearts and minds of the people. And I do think that, you know, there's something to that. And so it's easy and all the numbers to tell everybody all the other stuff. But I'm looking at Ang and I'm like, go look up at the rafters in Utah. The names that are up there, it's like Daryl Griffith, it's Adrian Dantley, it's Mark Eaton, it's Jeff Hornet. Like those are names that are actually there. Now granted, Adrian Dantley was an incredible player. Darrell Griffith, you know, but Adrian D. Wasn't winning no championships in Utah. But that, that's, that's what this is. You know what I mean? And so that's where I think Silver also needs to look around and realize, man, you brought all these quant people in here. They, they, they only think in ways that are often counter to why people like your league.
- [50:10]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, I, I think it's, I, I think was it last night when they were advertising the spurs and Lakers game, it was Victor Wembanyama's face and on the other side was Rui Yachimura. And I'm like, man, that's tough sell for the NBA is, is like. And next time the Utah Jazz are on national TV and Oklahoma City, by the way, is being investigated by the league right now because they, they had a bunch of guys out on national TV last week. I feel like this happens all around the league and we're going to have, let's see if 10 teams are trying to lose and there's 30 games left. You do the math on how many games left in the season are going to be compromised because the teams aren't trying to win every game. So I mean, if you want to go radical, we don't have to do that. I don't. I think we might have talked about this as getting rid of the draft altogether is the only way you're going to set all about it.
- [50:59]
Bomani Jones
All about it.
- [51:00]
Tom Haberstroh
It's the only way we can all talk all day. We can talk to, we're blue in the face about what if we get rid of pick protections and what if you, we, we lock in the lottery odds on March 1st. None of that's going to change things. None of that. The only thing that's going to actually fundamentally change the way teams operate and not try to lose is if you take the draft altogether and now you got to sign these guys out of college.
- [51:21]
Bomani Jones
You know, I did something for game Theory about doing in the NFL draft. I'm about all of it. First of all, it's amazing how wedded the average fan is to the idea of the draft. And like, so, for example, remember, and I'm not trying to get into a Political argument with nobody here. But you remember when people was talking about defund the police and they talk about stuff like abolishing the prisons. I admit to you, I feel where you're coming from, but I don't have a good enough imagination to figure out what we gonna do then. Right? Like, I don't. I'm willing, you can sell me on it because I think you're coming from a good place. But I can't imagine what you're trying to get me to right now. I'm just not that good at it. People cannot imagine a world without a draft when it's so simple, right? Like it's not, it's. I mean there are ways that you could come up with things. Like, like I say, if you want to, if you want to try to make it about competitive redistribution, then give people the salary allotments and then like the worst team gets more or whatever it is and then go for it. We could, we could call it national signing day and everybody announces where they're going and we figure it out like it's a, it's a sellable proposition. Soccer seems to do just fine in these.
- [52:32]
Tom Haberstroh
The, the product is right there. Like, are people really out on college football and college basketball because there's no draft? No, they don't care, right?
- [52:40]
Bomani Jones
We love it.
- [52:40]
Tom Haberstroh
The fact that there's no draft. So the idea that in pro sports we need a draft is so antithetical to what we already know about what are the biggest sports in the world. College football is not out here saying, hey man, this sport is great, but I really wish there was a draft where, where NC State could get the number one prospect recruit out of, out of high school. We're not, we're not, we're not worried about that. Wake Forest. I'm not even out here being like, wait, Wake Forest is part of this acc. We should have a shot at Cam Boozer and, and, and Caleb Wilson. I understand the dynamics and I'm okay with it. The NBA, NFL, it's different. But like you said, soccer's, soccer's doing pretty well around the world, I would say.
- [53:23]
Bomani Jones
And so this is what I think with the draft and where it gets lost or what I think would be interesting. Major League Baseball has now gone to a slotted draft like everybody else has gone to. But it used to be. Now I want to say this is around like you say, like 25 years ago is really the time where I think that this really thrived. But what beyond not having slotting of salaries pick by pick what you also didn't have was the assumption that the number one pick had to make more than the number two pick, who had to make more than number three pick and all the way down the line. So what would happen in baseball because you had this prospect of high school players who could come into the draft or anybody and then decide they didn't like where they got drafted. They. And then they could go back, like go to college or even in some cases go back to college because you didn't make yourself eligible for the baseball draft. Everybody's just eligible. And then you make those decisions. What you wound up with were cases where maybe the best player in the draft might go in the third round. Like I remember any of you guys who remember Rick An Keel who started as a great pitcher and then couldn't pitch no mo and then became a very good hitter and then they got him, you know what I'm saying? Hitting that, hitting that, hitting that juicy juice. And then it all went a different way. But he gets drafted in the third round and I forget how big his bonus was, but the argument was we wait till the third round to take him because it's such a great risk as to whether or not we can sign him. And so that's how we. We reach equilibrium in that way. You have guys that could get drafted early because I know I could offer him this. And now we're going to take him. He's going to come in. By limiting salaries in all the ways that they have limited salaries, they've created these problems in doing this. Right. So this isn't like 1983 pre lottery where one player could change fortune so much, which is really not the case now either. Right. The impact of drafting Ralph Sampson was the one that led to the last like super duper tank situation. And then Akeem Olajuwon the next year for the. It was the Rockets tanking so hard that made people be like, hey, we ain't gonna do that. You draft Cooper flag. Now, it's not like drafting shaq was in 92 and you're 25 wins better. Right. Like it. But the, the behaviors are molded by the history and all the things that we've done. But if you got rid of capping those salaries, we could get rid of a lot of these problems. But of course they're never going to do that.
- [55:41]
Tom Haberstroh
No. I haven't watched too much college basketball, but I do know one thing is that AJ DeBonsa being at BYU where the. The owner of the Utah Jazz is a big supporter of byu. And I got to imagine that if, if they are available, if AJ debona is available, if they're like the fifth pick or, and, and you're trying to get into number three to get a debona, they're going to move everything to go get that guy because he's so.
- [56:13]
Bomani Jones
Invested in that guy. He's been invested because they moved him to Utah for high school. I can't remember. I don't if I missed you saying that part. His investment in, it's a little weird actually.
- [56:22]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah. So they're, they're trying to get him in, in Utah for sure. And I just, if you open it up, I'm sure they would, they would, you know, offer him the most money, the biggest package to go to Utah in a way that like everyone would know what time it is, right? They would know, hey, this guy, he wants, he's at byu, he wants to be in Utah. And it would be very different. And I've, I've made this argument before, but it's like to people who are like, oh, the Lakers would just get everybody, the Knicks would just get everybody. That's not how 18 year old basketball players think. They, they want the ball, they want the organization, they want the power. And if you're going to a team that has LeBron and Luca and Austin Reaves already averaging 25 a night and they don't have much use for you with the ball in your hands, that's not a place I want to be. And so if you need any evidence of that, look at college basketball. There are guys going to Lawrence, Kansas, you know, like they're signing. You think small markets. How about Lawrence, Kansas? There's, there's a powerhouse there, upstate New York and Syracuse got Carmelo Anthony. There are ways that these small markets can offer something to these players that they will sign up for. And I know the culture in the NBA is such that we just expect that once you're a superstar, you're only going to want to play in Hollywood or in New York or Miami. But there's so much evidence in college basketball that is not true. Look at Lexington, look at Durham, North Carolina, and look at Lawrence, Kansas. These aren't, these aren't metropolises, okay? And that's how they look at college football is another example. Man, these powerhouses are not in metropolis cities. They're not. And so when you look at it, I think the NBA is not going to switch to a no draft anytime soon. But when you are asked about how do we fix tanking, that's the only solution. I think we should really spend some time talking.
- [58:12]
Bomani Jones
Well, let me throw you another hot take. I don't know how many of you youngsters out there are familiar with Sam Ken, but he had a routine back in the day that may offend some of y', all, but was really funny when it came out because we used to have a whole lot of commercials and we sang songs about sending money to the people of Ethiopia. Cause they was a little bit hungry. And Sam Kennedy said that we needed to stop sending money over there and sending food over there. That. That's not what those people need. He said we needed to send them U Hauls so they can move where the food is. Right. Little harsh. Very funny. I'm just saying it's your stupid ass fault for having a team where black people don't want to live. It's basketball, right? Like, if you're. If the thought is, well, nobody will want to go live in Utah, well, maybe Utah shouldn't have a team. How about that? I don't want to live in Sacramento. Why the fuck did you move a team to Sacramento in the first place? Like if, where, if where you are is so unattractive to the people who play the games, maybe you shouldn't have a team. Or you're just going to have to spend a lot of money to get people to play for you.
- [59:26]
Tom Haberstroh
Or not win.
- [59:27]
Bomani Jones
Yeah.
- [59:28]
Tom Haberstroh
Or not win.
- [59:29]
Bomani Jones
Yeah. These are your, these, these are your, these are your choices. Right? And look, it's interesting because back in the day you had teams. It was the Celtics, the Suns, and the Jazz. Howard Brian always talks about this. Those are the teams that always had all the white dudes. Right. Like, it was, it was the brand to have all the white dudes not terribly different than, like, do. Basketball was for, you know, for stretches. Like, these were, these were the teams that always had all the white dudes. NBA. You couldn't survive like that no more. That, that, that, that wasn't it. Like Utah. I can't think of the last Jeff Horacek that they had over there.
- [60:03]
Tom Haberstroh
They did draft Kyle Filipowski. Okay.
- [60:06]
Bomani Jones
So in the second round.
- [60:07]
Tom Haberstroh
Yep. But what, what team did take a chance on Cal.
- [60:10]
Bomani Jones
That is, that is, that is fair. That is fair. But you know, they, they, there's a lot going on. But you're correct. They did make, they, they, they, they did make that move.
- [60:19]
Tom Haberstroh
You took that, that steering wheel and.
- [60:21]
Bomani Jones
Went, okay, get out of there. But hey, man, if you ain't got what the people want, that's your fault. Yeah.
- [60:28]
Tom Haberstroh
Yep. Yep. And look, I just. Utah did it. They, they, they acquired Jaren Jackson Jr. In a trade. They sent out three picks, pretty good picks, by the way, to get Jaren Jackson Jr. Who's going to make a lot of money next year. I, I, I, part of me thinks that this is just straight arbitrage that they felt like the price for Jaren Jackson Jr. And his contract was such that they can move them this off season and get more for him for a team that's actually trying to win. Because I don't know, man, it just seems very confusing why they made that move in Washington. And Vita Zubots, the, the pick that they got, the clippers got, is 1 through 4 protected and 10 through 30 protected. Meaning the only way that the Clippers are going to get this is if it's five through nine in the draft. Otherwise it stays in Indiana. And that was a stunner to me, too. But they just beat in. I thought they were tanking. And Avita Zubots hasn't suited up, but they just beat the Knicks in double overtime last night. And so I, It's a very confusing NBA season, and I'm going to be trying to be here a lot more often this year, Bomani, to help people understand how the NBA works this year. But I will tell you, it is confusing even for me, watching that trade deadline and trying to, you know, square some of these circles because it is very confusing why some of these teams are operating this way. I would never have imagined. And I think a lot of people, insiders, newsbreakers, I don't think a lot of them pegged that the Indiana Pacers and Utah Jazz and the Washington Wizards would be the buyers at the deadline. It is very, very strange.
- [62:07]
Bomani Jones
You're like, it's a fascinating trade deadline that requires you to be really into the NBA because otherwise it just didn't make any sense. And I will say this last thing before we go, and this is about Jaren Jackson. Me, personally, I feel like wherever Jaren Jackson ultimately ends up, I don't know if it's going to happen in year one, but I think it's going to be in year two. Like, what's happening right now with New York with year two of Karl and Anthony Towns, and you just year one, you're like, oh, my God, this guy is so good. Why would anybody want to give him away? And then you get to year two and it's like, oh, that's what they were talking about. Got it. Like, it takes the honeymoon year. And with Jaren Jackson, that Is the. I don't. If he stayed in Utah. Amen. And people ain't here for somebody that big getting those 6 1/2 7 rebounds a game. Like he. I don't. He. He's so maddening and confusing to me. Right? Because big guy who can block shots and shoot threes, fouls way too much, but somehow doesn't get rebounds.
- [63:03]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah.
- [63:04]
Bomani Jones
What?
- [63:05]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah, he's a big wing, right. Big wing player who likes to go off the dribble, doesn't rebound. And Larry Markkanen and he are the two biggest guys in the league that. That rebound like guards. So Walker Kessler is going to be out here with 20 rebounds a game if they resign him this offseason. He's a restricted free agent, but he's going to have 20, 25 rebounds a night. He's going to look like Moses Malone. Peak, peak. Wilt Chamberlain on the boards next year because he's got Jaren Jackson Jr. Larry Markkanen, who are two seven footers who rebound like they're six footers.
- [63:37]
Bomani Jones
Let me tell you something about Jaren Jackson Jr. Let me look this up right now. Okay? He got on his contract. He's got. Okay, it kicks in next year at 49 and then 50 and then 52 and then a player option for 53. Those are millions. Just so everybody understands, okay, if he's still in Utah to start next year, he gonna be out there playing like I would be playing if I was Klay Thompson without a care in the world. I'm out here playing for this team that ain't actually trying to win nothing. And if I do and if I keep playing like this, what I'm gonna get out of this is I don't have to play in Utah no more. Bet I'm gonna be a mosey and motherfucker, man. I ain't. I ain't got nothing for you. I can't. The protest I'd put on for you, trade me to Utah. I can't begin to explain that to you.
- [64:30]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah. My sneaky prediction is that I think they're gonna get rid of the Jazz name. They're not putting Jazz on the. On the front anymore.
- [64:42]
Bomani Jones
Hey, man.
- [64:42]
Tom Haberstroh
Putting Utah. You know those classic jerseys with Jazz.
- [64:45]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [64:46]
Tom Haberstroh
With Karl Malone and John Stockton and Jeff Horner years. It's just Utah now.
- [64:53]
Bomani Jones
Yo, it's too late, right? Like you, I feel like we both agree about this. That the time to do that was immediately. It's. It's too. Like y' all are. Y' all are now The Utah Jazz. This is the most delightfully ironic name that has ever existed in the world. I can't believe that the people of Utah let them name that team after the devil's music for even one day, but they did. Okay.
- [65:17]
Tom Haberstroh
And the Pelicans are in New Orleans. Come on. Come on.
- [65:20]
Bomani Jones
It is too late to make them the New Orleans Jazz.
- [65:23]
Tom Haberstroh
Is it? No, I'm. I'm here for this.
- [65:24]
Bomani Jones
No, I'm here. No, I think it's too late because Utah had been the Jazz for so long. Like, this isn't. This isn't like going back to the Hornets, where the Hornet's name was out of circulation.
- [65:35]
Tom Haberstroh
Hey, I. I still. I think it's never too late. What's the line? The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, and the next best time is today.
- [65:42]
Bomani Jones
I think that they need to adapt to the present. And it should be the New Orleans back bounce. If we go name it after local music, it should be the New Orleans bounce, but it can't. The Jazz. I can't believe I'm saying this. It belongs to Utah.
- [65:56]
Tom Haberstroh
No, it doesn't. No. I can't believe you right now.
- [66:00]
Bomani Jones
I know, I know. But, I mean, I think if they being honest with themselves, they know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what y' all are. Now. You've been the jazz for, what, 50 years?
- [66:12]
Tom Haberstroh
You want to. You. You're out here saying that the Jazz, the Utah fans, they want to hearken back to the Karl Malone years. Ok, all right, fine. Fine. If you want to die on that hill that.
- [66:24]
Bomani Jones
I'm not dying on it. I'm just saying that this is. This is what they bid. This is what the person. What they gonna change the name to? And I want to be careful with my guesses, because some of them might be cancelable.
- [66:38]
Tom Haberstroh
Something to do with mountains like Peak, not Rockies, because the Colorado Rockies already exist. But I don't even know if it is the Rock. I don't think. I'm not up on my.
- [66:46]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, I think it's the Rockies. The hockey team is the Mammoth.
- [66:50]
Tom Haberstroh
See, I'm. I'm down with that. I like that. I like that. The. The Utah yetis don't really work. I'm not. And there's probably copyright issues with that. But I just think the Jazz, they're already turning the page. The jerseys are already just Utah now. So they're all ready, I think. And it's a new ownership. I just. I don't know.
- [67:08]
Bomani Jones
I ain't gonna lie, man.
- [67:09]
Tom Haberstroh
I hear the Utah Angels. Is that what you.
- [67:12]
Bomani Jones
The idea that they even want to change it? It feels, it feel real trumpy to me, dog. You know what I'm saying? Like, it feels real. Like, why would you want to change it if not to take the black off? That's. That's all you would be doing. Like, this is who y' all are, Y' all the Jazz. I can't believe this. I mean, they, they should have done this a long time ago. That's all I'm saying.
- [67:37]
Tom Haberstroh
Man. Pistol Pete is rolling over in his grave right now that you're saying that. That's the Jazz over there. Yeah.
- [67:43]
Bomani Jones
I mean, did Pistol Pete ever play for the Utah Jazz, by the way?
- [67:47]
Tom Haberstroh
Oh, boy. Now this, this is actually, we are, we are getting into a very interesting way. Like how. Let's see this.
- [67:54]
Bomani Jones
I. I think he only played for the New Orleans Jazz. And that is. Oh, he played 17 games for the Utah Jazz. And then they sent him on the pilgrimage that every Pete Maravich like player was always intended to go on and they sent him to his ancestral home of Boston.
- [68:15]
Tom Haberstroh
That's a wrap. That's a wrap. You know.
- [68:17]
Bomani Jones
And ladies and gentlemen, that is Tom Haverstrom who realizes it's time to get off this ride. Check him out. And Yahoo Sports. Check out Todd the Finder, his incredible newsletter. I get it every week. You need to check that out, my brother. I appreciate you.
- [68:30]
Tom Haberstroh
Oh, that was great, man. Always appreciate it. And thanks for having me on. We'll do it again soon.
- [68:34]
Bomani Jones
Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handled thing behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-59-67767. Damn. It's not too late. I'm gonna put you on the spot. Tom, what is the funniest name that you could imagine being in the Epstein files?
- [68:52]
Tom Haberstroh
The funniest name?
- [68:54]
Bomani Jones
Yes.
- [68:55]
Tom Haberstroh
Bomani Jones.
- [68:57]
Bomani Jones
That's not funny at all.
- [68:59]
Tom Haberstroh
That's why it's funny. Not funny.
- [69:02]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, I now I keep coming up with different ones now I got Brad Stevens.
- [69:09]
Tom Haberstroh
Brad Stevens.
- [69:10]
Bomani Jones
That would be amazing if Brad Stevens is in the FC files. I just thought we were going to watch basketball. Like that's what we need. I want to see the emails in the Epstein files from dissatisfied people.
- [69:22]
Tom Haberstroh
Yeah. What was it? The Elon Musk and. I can't believe we're doing this now, but Elon Musk didn't. He wasn't he like? Oh, yeah. I don't really like to hang out with diplomats. Like, you think that's what Brad Stevens would be like? I don't really see. Do they play basketball? Do they know how to do a crossover dribble? Like, how's their jumper looking? No, I don't really want to go to that event.
- [69:41]
Bomani Jones
Yeah, that's it. We got bored. Tom. Average. All right. 3, 2, 3. 5, 6, 7. 7. 6, 7. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, Give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.