Vinnie Goodwill on Chris Paul being sent home by Clippers, LeBron "going out sad", Thunder dynasty on deck | 12.03

Summary

The Right Time with Bomani Jones

Episode: Vinnie Goodwill on Chris Paul being sent home by Clippers, LeBron "going out sad", Thunder dynasty on deck
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Bomani Jones
Guest: Vinny Goodwill (NBA reporter for ESPN)

---

Overview

This episode features Bomani Jones and Vinny Goodwill delving into three major NBA storylines: Chris Paul being sent home by the Clippers, LeBron James’ awkward adjustment to aging and team hierarchy, and the Oklahoma City Thunder’s burgeoning dynasty and dominance. Their lively, insightful, and often humorous conversation covers player legacies, team-building philosophies, the evolution and problems with modern basketball, and what the future holds for the NBA’s stars and franchises.

---

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Chris Paul Gets Sent Home by the Clippers

[03:59 – 09:50]

• Clippers' Decision: The Clippers, deep in a disastrous, aging season (5–16), abruptly send Chris Paul home during a road trip. It's not a typical release—he's told to leave while they "figure the rest out."

  • Bomani on the unceremonious send-off:

    “They just want him out of there. They told him to call Tyrone and tell him, come on, help you get your shit.” (07:14)

• Franchise Icon Disrespected: Both Jones and Goodwill stress Paul’s critical role in legitimizing the franchise alongside Blake Griffin—the move is exceptional, given his place in Clipper history.

  • “He and Blake Griffin together are the most important players in the history of their franchise…they helped build this building that they’re playing in.” (05:50)

• Possible Causes:

  • Chris Paul’s exhausting personality, especially when losing, may have made him intolerable as his performance declined.
  • Never clear if he patched things up with James Harden (their Houston stint ended badly).
    • Vinny: “Were we ever sure that he and James Harden patched things up? …Those are two very acquired taste type of ball players.” (07:21)

• Legacy Assessment: Paul’s lack of a championship overshadows his exceptional career.

  • “There’s no way to answer…was Chris Paul wrong place, wrong time? Or was Chris Paul the common denominator of all the bad things that wound up happening?” (12:32)

---

2. The Challenge of Aging: LeBron James "Going Out Sad"

[20:14 – 28:13]

• LeBron's Recent Play:

  • Caught in an awkward spot. On a night when the Lakers have the game in hand, LeBron stays in to chase double-digit points for a streak; JJ Redick, now coaching, calls a timeout because of antics on the court.
  • Bomani: “Once you decide to come back at this age, every year, the odds of you going out sad get higher and higher and higher.” (20:26)

• Role on Team:

  • No longer the top option, maybe not even second or third—can he adapt?
  • Vinny: “No longer number one option. Yes. Let's see how long he's the number three option…” (23:20)

• LeBron’s Impact & Perception:

  • Despite jokes and internet memes, he remains impactful; his mere presence changes games, but usage and efficiency are in decline (notably poor free throw percentage).
  • Debate on whether the Lakers are truly as good as their record indicates, especially when compared to their net rating and with LeBron dialing back his usage.
  • Vinny gives LeBron a “15 games” grace period to see if he can “turn it up” after returning from injury.

---

3. The Thunder Ascendancy: "Dynasty on Deck"

[44:43 – 55:17]

• Are the Thunder On Dynasty Track?

  • Their blowout wins are “unimpressive” in the sense that they seem routine; just steadily outplay everyone quarter by quarter rather than overwhelming in bursts.
    • Vinny: “They beat you by four every quarter. Beat you by four, beat you by four, beat you by 4…wait, we lost by 20.” (45:45)
    • Bomani: “They’re winning by 15 points a night. And they did most of this without their second or third best player.” (45:49)

• Young Core and Draft Assets:

  • Chet Holmgren, Jalen Williams (JDub), and especially Shai Gilgeous-Alexander are thriving; the Thunder own several future high lottery picks, enabling sustainable success or a superstar trade.

• Comparisons to NBA History:

  • Vinny likens this to the 1982 Lakers (winning and then drafting James Worthy) and the 1986 Celtics—teams that could reload while already at the top.
  • Bomani points out that unlike past teams, the Thunder’s core wasn’t built on high lottery picks but shrewd drafting and development.

• Roster Construction in the “Second Apron” Era:

  • Teams who get their drafts right reap huge structural advantages under new salary cap rules.
  • Houston, Detroit, and Oklahoma City are cited as young teams “getting it right” from within (draft) rather than via high-profile trades.

• Risks & Sustainability:

  • Even seemingly inevitable dynasties can get derailed—Boston and Denver cited as recent examples of “unbeatable” teams that fell short.
  • Thunder’s myriad assets would let them reload if injuries hit.

---

4. The Modern NBA: Style, Injuries, and Player Development

[31:15 – 43:46]

• Rampant Injuries & Overuse:

  • Bomani links the NBA’s relentless pace and physical demands to the rash of injuries—players are putting more miles on themselves from a younger age and there’s “no dialing it back.”
    • “Bodies are not meant to withstand that which we are discussing. But there is no dialing it back.”
  • Over-specialization (kids focusing on one sport) and excessive skill work, not live practice, are blamed for increased soft tissue injuries.
  • Training shoes are criticized as “just bad.” Low-tops shift stress to other parts of the leg (adductors, hamstrings).

• Fixes?

  • Calls for multi-sport youth training: “We need a new Bo Knows campaign.”
  • Vinny: “It creates better athletes, to be perfectly honest.” (38:01)
  • Cutting games from season is a constant debate, but “never going to happen”—teams won’t give up revenue, and rest days might only mean more solo training (not less wear).

• Cultural Change:

  • Andre Miller (retired NBA vet) is quoted as saying 5-on-5 “live” basketball remains the best training—versus today’s skill-dominated routine.
  • Young players are more robotic, less adaptive because they’re not playing “natural” basketball.
    • Vinny: “So much of hooping is just figuring it out…hooping against us and getting your ass kicked, going down the lane and getting knocked on your ass…”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Chris Paul's Exit

  “They just want him out of there. They told him to call Tyrone and tell him, come on, help you get your shit.” — Bomani Jones (07:14)

• On CP3's Legacy

  “You have to be a special type of ball player just to get to the NBA at six feet nothing. Then you have to be a different type of animal to be an excellent ballplayer…” — Vinny Goodwill (09:50)

• Aging and "Going Out Sad"

  “Once you decide to come back at this age, every year, the odds of you going out sad get higher and higher and higher.” — Bomani Jones (20:26)

• On Thunder's Success

  “If they want to. You know what? … It doesn't look impressive...they beat you by four every quarter…wait, we lost by 20.” — Vinny Goodwill (44:46–45:45)

• On Modern Player Development

  "It’s like watching a timing belt on your car wearing out…It’s only got so many, so many miles before the car starts fighting back." — Vinny Goodwill (34:08–35:23)

• On Solutions to Player Overuse

  “The cross train need a new Bo Knows campaign.” — Bomani Jones (38:01)

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:59–09:50: Chris Paul’s exile – mechanics, significance, legacy
• 20:14–28:13: LeBron’s role, legacy, statistical decline, Lakers’ prospects
• 31:15–43:46: Pace of play, injury crisis, problems with specialization, need for sports culture change
• 44:43–55:17: Oklahoma City Thunder – dynasty potential, historical comparisons, roster-building, league sustainability
• Throughout: Lively banter about the NBA’s evolution, player personalities, and witty asides about shoes, coaching, and classic basketball moments.

---

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a rich, entertaining, and thought-provoking tour of the NBA’s past, present, and future, filtered through Bomani Jones’ sharp analysis and Vinny Goodwill’s insider expertise. Together, they illuminate not just what’s happening on the court, but why it matters—and what it means for legacies being written in real time.

Transcript

[Home Depot Advertiser]

With Black Friday savings at the Home Depot, you can get up to $1,400 off plus get free delivery on select appliances like LG, America's most reliable line of appliances. Check out the newest LG refrigerator with new mini craft ice straight from the dispenser Shop Black Friday savings on select LG appliances plus get free delivery now at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of$396 or more offer valid11.5 through12.3 US only. See store online for details.

[Chevrolet Advertiser]

There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability. Because they show up no matter the weather, push forward no matter the terrain and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in 2025, according to J.D. power. Because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard. Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Chevrolet received the highest total number of awards among all the trucks in the J.D. power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study Awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit jdpower.com awards for more details. Chevrolet together, let's drive foreign.

[Bomani Jones]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time A Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is that time of week where we have a guest join us covering the NBA for espn. Um, he not quite as Detroit as me sometimes, but Vinny Goodwill is in the house. What's going on, brother?

[Vinny Goodwill]

What is more Detroit than Stevie Wonder?

[Bomani Jones]

Well, he from Saginaw, right?

[Vinny Goodwill]

Technically. But he made his bones. He made his bones on the west.

[Bomani Jones]

Side of the trade. I'm just saying at times, at times, because of your refusal to accept American seeing the Detroit Lions as your own. Sometimes I feel like, you know, I'm a little realer than you.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I mean, are they really America's team now?

[Bomani Jones]

I'm standing tall and standing proud right now. We not gonna let a little couple difficult. Nah, man, you stand, you stay.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I'm just asking. I'm just asking if they're America's team right now.

[Bomani Jones]

How about this? How about this? If they not America's team, that's fine. They still Detroit's team and some people respect what that means.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I don't know if they the choice team anymore. There's a team in the city that's a little bit better.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, keep Cooking. Yeah. Thank you. I will continue to cook. Thanks so much. Anyway, I can't take. First of all, have you seen a Diddy movie yet?

[Vinny Goodwill]

I saw episode one yesterday. I couldn't get through it all.

[Bomani Jones]

But baby, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. That's just the beginning, baby. That is, that is. That is just the beginning. I'm going to tell you now, for people, it is not 50 being petty, which is what we all expected and why we're watching it. We for Diddy, it is something far, far worse because it is credible and professional and it is damning. And I will just tell you this, but by the time you get to the end of it, you know how messed up R. Kelly has to be to be more messed up than this guy? Because this guy is crazy messed up.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Dude. From what I saw yesterday, a, the fact that you have all this behind the scenes footage from 2024.

[Bomani Jones]

Like, he thought he was, he thought he, he thought he wasn't going to jail.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Oh, that, that's the narcissism and the arrogance and everything else and it's all coming back to bite him. And all those people were talking, like, all the people that you done wrong. Like the CCNY stuff, like from. What was that, 91. Like, stuff that if you know, you know. Cuz it wasn't like he was known back then and when he became known, it was more or less a footnote. But by the time like, like the story about the Eric sermon, like getting in the car and we about to.

[Bomani Jones]

Catch a fair one, like all that stuff. Yeah. Can't give away too much game. I'm just telling you guys.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

There may be a longer discussion at the end, but I watched the whole thing on yesterday. Oh, no, it's wild. It's wild, but also wild dog. They sent your boy Chris Paul home in the middle of the night. And for those who don't know, I wake up this morning to find out that Chris Paul, new, no longer plays for the Clippers. And like, when I say they sent him home, it's one thing to just be like, hey, this person has been released. Or however you want to spit it, Vinnie, correct me if I'm wrong. They sent him home, they told him to leave and we'll figure the rest out later.

[Vinny Goodwill]

They were in Atlanta, if my memory serves me correctly. Like, don't get me wrong, The Clippers are 5 and 16. They're having a miserable season. They're old and slow and I can't imagine that that put it like this. I don't know how happy it would be to be around someone like Chris Paul on a daily basis when things are going well. I can only imagine how miserable it would be to be around an old Chris Paul when you are that bad and that old. So clearly to the point where. Where you can. Lawrence Franken issued a statement that he made and he sent out to, you know, a bunch of reporters like, hey, this is not a Chris Paul fault. We're going to work with him, blah, blah, blah. All. All the things this feels like either a, you said the wrong thing at the wrong time and you just got to go, or we are just sick of your shit. We are sick of you being Chris Paul and you're not good enough to be Chris Paul anymore. And we don't have the tolerance to take you being Chris Paul anymore.

[Guest Analyst]

All right, so let's think about a couple of factors here. Number one, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really think there's much dispute here. He's the greatest player in the history of that franchise.

[Bomani Jones]

He and Blake Griffin together are the.

[Guest Analyst]

Most important players in the history of their franchise, as they are the two that legitimize their franchise for the first time.

[Bomani Jones]

Blake Griffin, with his rookie year actually making us care, and then Chris Paul's arrival, actually making them like a legitimate team. They helped build this building that they're playing in. The fact that we talk about that, we talk about the Clippers at all, right, that they come up. There's a whole generation of fans like that are actually adults right now who cannot understand what the Clippers meant to me. And you growing up right like this, like this be the biggest laughing stock in Big four American sports. This is what they were. He's that guy. He matters to that team. I don't know exactly how the team feels about him because he bailed. And it got kind of weird, you know, Got weird at the end the first time. Time, however, you don't really send this guy home, given that history. They sent him home. Get out. We can't take it. And I. It can only tie into what you talk about. Man, he is an exhausting guy to be around. Because let me tell you what this isn't going to do. This isn't going to make the Clippers any better. He's out here getting DNP CDs. Like, it's not like he has to play. And by the way, he's playing terribly, but it's not like he has to play. And now they got to take him out so they can get somebody else. No, no, no, no, no. They just want him out of there. They told him to call Tyrone and tell him, come on, help you get your shit.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I am fascinated at what they hope to accomplish by bringing him back in the first place. Right. Were we ever sure that he and James Harden patched things up in real time? Because I'm not sure that things were ever, you know, oh, we cool. We back, we back. Good again. Like it ended pretty badly in Houston in 2019. And because so much life has happened after 2019, we forget that that was not that long ago. And those are two very acquired taste type of ball players. And the fact that Jim Harden has us calling him James Harden again for at least a little while longer, like he's playing all star ball. He's balling, he hooping like he is hooping. It don't matter because the team ain't doing much, but he's hooping. You got Tyloo, who's having a miserable year. You get all these ways that you have rolled snake eyes as a franchise. And then you got Chris Paul who's not playing no more. And then he announces somewhere along the way that he is having a going away tour. Like this is this is it. Like, yeah, as if we didn't see it. And the day that he announces his retirement, what does Jim Harden do? I'm a drop 50 in North Carolina. Should have retired right then. Should just caught it right then and there. That's it.

[Bomani Jones]

Well, the other thing, this.

This team built itself around a player who ain't got nothing for you on the soft.

[Guest Analyst]

Skills, the leader stuff.

[Bomani Jones]

And that's Kawhi Leonard, right?

[Guest Analyst]

Like this whole plan was built around.

[Bomani Jones]

A guy who don't really talk that much. Okay. You bring in James Harden and that's not really what he does. Okay. I imagine that if I'm Chris Paul and I get in and I look around this team and you know what that team sounds like it needs, even as old as they are, it still looks like it needs a grown up now, doesn't it? And Chris Paul, if he is nothing else, is a grownup. Not always a likable grown up, but a grown up. And he was like, yeah, I'mma be that. Except the problem for Chris Paul is, and it's so weird, people in real life seem to like Chris Paul a lot. People in basketball do not.

[Vinny Goodwill]

It is one of those things where for Chris Paul to be at his height, like literally not like the height of his career, but at his height. You have to be a special type of ball player to make it in the NBA. Like I don't think we give it as much credit because of all the nonsense that. Or not all the nonsense because of the conversation that has been around Chris Paul, because of the places that he has not gone. And. But the fact that at six feet nothing, and as someone who used to have hops, like good enough hops that could make you dunk on Dwight Howard and then you lose that early in your career, you have to turn yourself into a completely different ball player. You have to be a special type of ball player just to get to the NBA. At six feet nothing. Then you have to be a different type of animal to be an excellent ballplayer like Bo. Just legitimately think about this. The list of 6ft nothing players who are undeniably better than Chris Paul, I'd probably say are two.

[Guest Analyst]

Isaiah Thomas.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Allen Iverson, who's the.

[Guest Analyst]

Is.

[Bomani Jones]

See that's.

[Vinny Goodwill]

If nothing else. If nothing else, AI showed up.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah. So the thing with. So this is, this is why this is interesting to me. Okay. Iverson obviously was the best player on.

[Guest Analyst]

The team that went to the NBA Finals, which Chris Paul has never been. Right.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

Iverson was not, however, the floor raiser that Chris Paul, like 2008 Chris Paul probably had a better basketball season than 2001. Allen Iverson did. Like I think 2008 Chris Paul should.

[Guest Analyst]

Have been the MVP that year.

[Bomani Jones]

I understand why he wasn't. But 2008 Chris Paul, and this is before the knee injury which you talk.

[Guest Analyst]

About, which is a kind of a.

[Bomani Jones]

Different incarnation of what Chris Paul was before then. I can say this. I. I'm not saying that Chris Paul is better than Ion. I'm saying though that there is an.

[Guest Analyst]

Interesting discussion to be had about that.

[Bomani Jones]

Keep it in mind. Chris Paul is still in the NBA at 40 and at 32, Iverson was cooked.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, I mean like two different types of, you know, ball players. And yeah, it, it winds up being a different level of like. I'm not going to fight you if you say that Allen Iverson is not better than Chris Paul. Like, you know, that's, that's not the thing. But the fact that Chris Paul, like you said, found a way to reinvent himself as he aged, wound up being part of some really, really good teams, catching some bad luck along the way. Some of his self inflicted, some of the health, whatever you want to call it. Like you have to be a certain level of probably ornery. You probably have to be a Different level of ornery. And you have to ask yourself wind up like historically, was Chris Paul wrong place, wrong time? Or was Chris Paul the common denominator of all the bad things that wound up happening? And there's no real way to answer that right now because at the Clippers going to the Western conference finals in 2015 against the Golden State warriors team, that was really, really good.

[Bomani Jones]

But.

[Vinny Goodwill]

But were not sure that they were championship ready. How different is this discussion?

[Bomani Jones]

That was the one. Cause that 201415 switch, that what happened in between those two seasons is interesting because the last team to beat the warriors before everything changed were the Chris Paul, Donald Sterling, Les Clippers, right? Where they wore the, where they wore the stuff inside out and took the clothes, you know, took all the stuff off and everything else and they beat the warriors in seven. And Joe Laker got Mark Jackson the look up out of there because it was beef, right? And then next thing you know, the warriors are everything. And for people who don't remember, the clippers were up 3:1 on the Rockets in the second round of the playoffs. And they are up big in game six and led by Josh Smith with James Harden on the bench in la, the Rockets walked them down. Now to be fair, they, that was a team where the Clippers starting five was the best five man lineup in the NBA.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yep, yep.

[Bomani Jones]

And they had nobody behind them and they just ran out of gas. So that's the thing to me is that if they win that series, they probably go play the warriors and get run out of the building because it wasn't like they were any more accomplished.

[Guest Analyst]

Than the warriors were.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Right. Well, here's the other thing. This is the thing that we forget. Do you remember what happened to the Clippers the year before that after they beat the warriors in round one, who they play in round two and how that ended up.

[Bomani Jones]

Do you remember that in 2014, did they play the spurs in the second round?

[Vinny Goodwill]

No, they played the Thunder. And that was the Chris Paul meltdown game in game five where he fouls Russ taking that wild three. And then when Russ makes all three free throws and then on the last play he gets stripped maybe by Reggie Jackson driving like he drove two, like it's all these little inflection plays that sometimes you're in the wrong place at the wrong time and sometimes it can't always be you. And that's where it has gotten. Because think about how many players have played as long as Chris Paul and have been as great as Chris Paul, but have never gotten over the Hump. Usually you wind up by hook or crooked getting something like it's the Karl Malone's, it's the John Stocktons like, but it's the list ain't that long. Like as much as the championships have gotten monopolized, usually you wind up find like Clyde Drexler found the way he was wound up, he was an unlucky player and then he was no longer unlucky. David Robinson was gifted. Tim Duncan like, like the one gripe I have sometimes about John Stockton is you can't just be 16 and 12 all the time. It can't just be I'm taking the playbook you and executing it properly and I'm not adjusting to whatever the game is calling for. Chris Paul can probably execute the game plan before life alters it as well as anybody in the history of the game. Right. What happens with playoff basketball is inevitably what happens when the game calls for you to be something different than what you plan for. And that's where Josh Smith happens and that's where. Wait, why did I file Russell Westbrook taking a three? When we are up? When we are up four. He's taking a three. This is what we want. Like it sounds like we dogging on Chris Paul here. It just shows how thin the margins are when you are that great and you're trying to get rings in the spurs slash warriors era of the Western Conference.

[Bomani Jones]

To this day.

[Guest Analyst]

And this cannot be ignored no matter how analytical the game gets and everything else. Ain't no more skill more important than.

[Bomani Jones]

Going and getting buckettes. A bucket. But I can go get buckets, boys. I got 35 for us tonight. And Chris Paul in his way could do that. What was that game in, in that playoff year they went to the finals in Phoenix. I don't think it was against the Bucks, but you remember the game I'm talking about where he just kept walking him? Or was it the next year he just kept walking them down to the elbow.

[Vinny Goodwill]

No, no, no. It was, it was a clip. When he beat the Clippers and he forced Pat Bev into the. Into the ultimate villain move. That was the clinching. That was the clinching. I think he scored 40.

[Bomani Jones]

Yes. And he just went and got bucket after bucket after bucket. And that's almost the exception that proves the rule in this case that we're talking about. Like the thing about Isaiah Thomas that made him so amazing, especially for the T, the day and age that he played in is. All right, I'mma go get these buckets. If y' all just ride along with me, I'm the one guy in the building for this team that can go get these buckets I got you. Don't worry about it because sometimes, only thing that's going to work is I can go get these buckets. Giannis, when he w had that game six to win that series against Phoenix is just, hey, man, I'm going to go get these buckets. That's what makes Allen Iverson is six foot so amazing. Again, Isaiah Thomas, it's. It's really difficult for a guy that size to say, you know what, I'm going to go out here and do this. A guy like the other Isaiah Thomas, who could do that in the regular season, but not really when it comes down to it in the playoffs, like, at that point, he ain't really going to be able to give it to you. Chris Paul lacked that single most important skill, right? Like, that's why you talk about Chris Paul versus Steph Curry. That's the giant difference right there, man. Steph Curry is like, Hey, 35. Yeah, I can do that easy.

[Vinny Goodwill]

And, yeah, and you make alterations through the game as the game goes. Like, maybe, maybe Zeke says, Michael Jordan's guarding me. I have to go score 35 tonight. He's actually done that. And these are against. You accept the challenge of, you know what, this is going to be a little uncomfortable for me. I might have to take a lot of shots that go against the percentages and everything else, but who else going to do it but me? And you got to be able to take that. And Giannis, when he made all them free throws, who else going to do it but me? Inevitably, I think you have to do things that make you feel a little uncomfortable, that make you step outside yourself. Michael Jordan in the 91 NBA Finals averaged 11 and a half assists. You think he was thinking about, I'm a Pastor John Paxton a whole bunch this series? No, that's just what the game called for. In the guys whose regular season and playoff numbers mirror the exact same things almost to the degree of, you know, like low turnover guys like, to some like, like an NFL, the guys who don't throw interceptions, that means you're not taking the chances of throwing it into those holes and making guys run to run to get to those spots. Same way for point guards, sometimes you got to throw those passes just so everybody can look alive, you know what I mean? Like, you get, you. You get that guy to say, hey, man, look a lot, keep your head up like Magic Johnson throwing the ball to the back of your Head. Hey, man, I wasn't open. Yes.

[Chevrolet Advertiser]

You.

[Vinny Goodwill]

You open. Because I synced it like one of those type of things. And that might be the one separator between the tier that I consider to be the ultimate tier, the Magic Johnson Zeke tier, to everybody that comes below them. And I mean everybody that comes below them. Oh, wow.

[Bomani Jones]

But, yeah, homie went out sad, man. He had to put it on Instagram.

[Guest Analyst]

Stories like, that's.

[Bomani Jones]

That's two A think about coming back. I talked about this in the context of LeBron, which is a different case. But.

Once you decide to come back at this age, every year, the odds of you going out sad get higher and higher and higher. And like, LeBron hanging out at the end of that game to try to make sure he got his double digits. Ooh, that wasn't. That wasn't going out happy.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I mean, can you imagine? And. And put it like. And let me correct myself before the. The aggregators go, like, Steph is in that goat category too. He's just a different type of point guard. But think about, think about this. Can you imagine J.J. redick knowing what the score is, knowing that only LeBron is the only regular out there? And LeBron is out there. Hey, man, I gotta get this side step three to get. To get these buckets. Because the few plays before that, Bo, he was trying to just score, and it wasn't working. And that's where you are about to be 41 years old in a few weeks, and you're coming off of an old man injury, and you are walking into the new world order, and that is the, you know, okay, maybe you've earned the right to say, I want to score my double digits. Like, this means that much to me. All right, cool. But it still feels a little unseemly.

[Bomani Jones]

So I will say this. I do not believe that he would have done that in a game that mattered.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Okay, right.

[Bomani Jones]

Or. Or under circumstances under which the game mattered.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Okay?

[Bomani Jones]

So if he's got six points and it's 90 seconds left and it's a four point game, I don't think he's doing that right. Like, I think that there was a measure of, hey, what we got to lose right now? Um, he's only played five games, but it's clear he is dialing back usage. Like, I think he seems to have made on. So on one hand, I think I would say that he has made an adjustment to what the new world order is. I would also say that he was over there, Lola, gagging with the other team during the game. And JJ had to call a timeout on Monday night.

[Guest Analyst]

Did you see that?

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, I saw that once again.

[Bomani Jones]

So I want to see. But I bring that up to say I want to see just how all that plays, because that crazy JJ is a crazy person coaching that team. Like, we all understand this. Like, is that something that you do it on purpose? Like, you got to know if you. LeBron, you can't. Like, we can't be doing this.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Okay, but to borrow a phrase from one of those reality shows, who going to check me? Boo. Like, who go. Who's going to check LeBron James? At this stage of his life, at.

[Bomani Jones]

This stage of his career, he's as checkable as he's ever been. Right now. He had a number three option on the offense. He not the best player on the team. Like, if he is asking who going to check me, it is possible he could find out.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I will say this. No longer number one option. Yes. Let's see how long he's the number three option. Let's see him revving it up and getting comfortable playing like himself again. Like, it's one thing to do. When you come in and the Lakers are a top three team in the Western Conference. Them, Oklahoma City and Houston. Like, it's clear that those are the three best teams as of this moment right now. You can. You have to come in and sort of fit in. But the first sign of turbulence, it's going to be really hard for you to fight against your natural instinct, which is to put your hands on the throttle and go and pull the nose up, and you're still. You're still LeBron James. Like, no matter what winds up happening, like, whatever jokes you know and how we kicking it here, he's still an incredibly effective ball player who. Who can have an incredible effect on the game just by his mere presence. Like, having to blend in right now is one thing. Like, do you know what people are doing on the Internet? Cause I know you're not on Twitter as much anymore, and I don't know if people are doing this on threads. People are doing one of these blind reveals. We doing side by side this player's first five years against this player's first five years. And we want y' all to find out. Y'. All. We want you to tell us whose numbers is these. Rookie year, 7.6. Second year, 15 points. Third year, 19. 9. Fifth year, 22. 5. Next year, 28. 5. You know who they comparing? Bomani, LeBron and LeBron. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, I said rookie year. Seven points a game. Oh, Austin Reaves and Kobe Bean Bryant.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh. That's the difference is, I think Austin reaves was about 27 as a rookie. He played seven years of college.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Hey, it's just the inflation of today's game on a number level, but still, it is just a crazy town. It is a crazy town, man.

[Guest Analyst]

I will just say this, and I don't. My inclination is not to say that you're wrong about how effective LeBron is as a ball player right now or everything else. He is currently putting up splits of.

[Bomani Jones]

46, 32, 55, and that 55% for the free throw line is on 20 attempts. Like, that's not a, like, super tiny.

[Guest Analyst]

Sample that we're working with here.

[Bomani Jones]

If it gets to a place of him trying to dial it up, because that's what he usually does. This questions, you know what I mean? Like, this is. It's going to be interesting to watch. Like, my inclination is to believe that he could find a way. I've always thought that the. The game for him was going to be aging into being a bit of a point power forward. Yeah, right. Like, that's. That's what I'd always thought. I just thought it would. I thought it would start happening maybe 10 years ago. Not 10, but you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, He's. He. He's flipped the math on aging so crazy. Like, think about this. This is 10 seasons since the 3. 1 comeback against the Warriors.

Like, that's how long this dude's been playing. That is. Wow. It is amazing. But it's going to be interesting to see, especially if he keeps doing stuff like what had J.J. so mad. That's what. Like, they can't. They ain't gonna send him home. Right. But they were okay without him.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, I mean. I mean. Okay, See, that's the right word. You said the right word. They were okay without him. Like, the net rating is a little bit better than what the record is, or the record is better than the net rating. I will give. How about this. And this is a phrase that I find myself using all the time. A little bit now I'll just be wrong. I'll consider myself to be wrong if LeBron is totally washed. Because I've never seen it and I've never. Like, at least from a statistical standpoint, I will allow for LeBron coming off of that type of leg injury. Being this age and this level of experience, I tend to believe he will turn it up in some way. It may not get to the point where he's 25, 7 and 7 or 27, 7 and 7. It may not get that high, but it will not look the way that it looks now. Five games in. I'm willing to give it another 15 games to see where it actually lands and to see how JJ and Luca and Austin Reaves and all these guys works itself in. I just don't tend to believe the Lakers are as good as their record, even sans LeBron. And with LeBron in this small sample size.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I mean their point differential indicates a. Okay team.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Here's the thing.

If they are going to win multiple playoff series, as in more than one, as in we're getting to the Western Conference finals to be the runner up to the Oklahoma City Thunder, then which.

[Bomani Jones]

Which everybody is then.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Then you're going to have to win on offense with their roster as currently constructed because we've seen Luka steal you a series. Luka has stolen playoff series before. He's capable of doing that. You're going to have to win strictly on offense with Luka. I think he's had a 38 usage. That doesn't look like it is sustainable for real life winning in today's basketball, with basketball being played at the pace that it is played at, where it is breakneck speed, where if you play hard like the Boston Celtics or the Phoenix Suns or the Orlando Magic, you're going to win more games than talent says you should. And I don't know how much playoff basketball will slow that up. And therefore I am not sure how much real winning the Lakers can do against teams that are more talented and more versatile when it matters.

[Guest Analyst]

Now, I will say this and we gonna. I wanna put a pin in something you just said and then go over to the break.

[Bomani Jones]

But in the west, the Lakers had the second best record point differential tied for six right around the surprising Phoenix Suns.

[Vinny Goodwill]

The team.

[Bomani Jones]

You know what I mean?

[Vinny Goodwill]

Now granted, the team that game the beats the other night, right.

[Bomani Jones]

Now granted, Phoenix did put the hurt on him, but given though that is the Lakers playing a lot without LeBron, some in and out of Luca like there. There are things to be brought up to mitigate the point, but it is fair to question whether or not this is a play in team with a 13 and 5 record right now. But coming up next, I want to talk to you about the Thunder, but you just hit on something I wanted to talk about, which is the pace of play in the NBA and some.

[Guest Analyst]

Of the consequences that we're seeing from that.

[State Farm Advertiser]

This episode is Brought to you by State Farm Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there prices are are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Wayfair Advertiser]

Wayfair's big sale is returning. Get ready for way day for four days only. Score up to 80% off all things home with free shipping on everything from October 26th through 29th. Score Wayfair's best deals like up to 80% off area rugs, up to 60% off mattresses, up to 60% off bedroom furniture and more exclusive doorbuster deals. So mark your calendar and shop Wayday starting October 26th at Wayfair.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

All right, we are.

[Bomani Jones]

Back with Vinny Goodwill of espn and you made the point there talking about the way that basketball is played in the NBA right now. Because look, LeBron is old. Luka is not the most durable player. And you mentioned luka having a 38% usage rate, which is really, really, really high and seems unsustainable. Like James Harden. It is amazing that James Harden has had the career that he has had when you really stop and think about the usage numbers that he's put up and the numbers of games that he's put up. Like, I mean, look, he's had stretches obviously where he hasn't been the healthiest. But the fact that he can still be this good with all the miles that he has is actually really impressive because I think that we'd all agree at this point. I was reading something, I think Mark Medina had this where he talked to a lot of guys like Gary Vedy, the former trainer of the Lakers, and you know, other people in the body space in the NBA. And it's just the style of play and the pace of play in the NBA is putting so many more miles on guys on top of the fact that they're racking up so many more miles before they even get to the NBA. And it's leading to the consequences that we see all over the league, which is the best players not really playing that much. Right. Like, I wonder if long term it means that we're actually going to see something where careers perhaps get a little shorter because the teams become a little more apprehensive about paying older guys a lot of money, you know, and so it all kind of dials back to whatever it is. But it got me to thinking about something and I'm curious what you think about what you think about this. So we often see the argument of, well, the NBA season needs to be shorter. Okay, Never going to happen.

[Guest Analyst]

Right.

[Bomani Jones]

They're not giving back money. They every game makes people money. They're not giving back money. Hard stops. But I was thinking about some of this doom and gloom stuff. I'd be reading about the Internet and about AI for example, where we know all the terrible consequences of AI. We don't even know if AI is actually going to prove itself to be profitable, all of these things. But AI has been introduced into the system, into the universe, right. Everybody's out here using it. And one thing that history has indicated to us is once technology becomes available, people don't stop using it.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Right?

[Bomani Jones]

Right. Like you're not going to now the AI is here. No explanation of how much electricity it uses. How bad is for the earth, how bad it is for the people. All of this stuff too bad, so sad it's here. People gonna be talking to Syria and Alexa or whatever it is once this has become available, the society is not going to walk back from it. And I feel like all these advances that we're talking about in basketball and the way things run schematically are are very, very similar. It is breaking the bodies of the players. The bodies are not meant to withstand that which we are discussing. But there is no dialing it back. As long as there's one person that's going to use the schemes, then everybody else is going to have to do what's necessary to keep up with it. And this is just what it's going to be.

[Vinny Goodwill]

You know what's funny? I've been talking to multiple people in the medical community like, like on teams who have to deal with the bodies. And not everybody has the same answer. Like it's different degrees of depth of what they believe the problem or, and or solution is. But the commonality is this. And I want to see where you, what you think about this. A, they agree with you and me completely on too much specialization at an early age. One said, man, it's like watching a timing belt on your car being worn out just because it's what it is. It's only got so many, so many miles on the car before the car starts fighting back against you. That's where the bodies are. And maybe this is something for all the professional sports leagues to get together on as Opposed to man, you're a basketball player at age 10, that's exactly what you're going to be. That's only what you're going to be like. That cannot be healthy for the body. And I'm sure it probably hurts. Maybe not football, but I would assume baseball just because like pitching arm motions, like stuff like that. The other thing is this, but I'm see what you. The other two things that I thought were really fascinating is this and I'm reading from like a pretty extensive text message.

Practicing no longer happens. Individual skill work happens far more. So you're stressing the muscle without doing anything to simulate gameplay. Like you're just doing an exercise over and over again. And because guys aren't used to practicing anymore, teams don't really practice as much like they, they talk about, you know, staying off your body and everything else because of the miles that you're doing throughout the course of the game, because of the miles that you've already put on your body, because of the miles that you might put on your body during the summer when you're hooping at lifetime fitness and everything else, all the skill work, you're not practicing together and you're not playing live. So you're only playing live during the course of the game. Your body isn't used to that type of stress. And then it's the stress of breakneck speed. Basketball, big time problems. And finally, and this is, there's a couple others, but I don't want to say it out loud, but the other one two people have told me that basketball shoes and the equipment is shit today. They say the shoes are just bad. They like, they think that because you are wearing a low cut shoe and you are wrapping your ankle around it, that that's compensating. All you're doing is sending the stress to other parts of your body. Now what's right above the ankle and what injuries do we see all the time nowadays? Yeah, and, and the hamstring. And did you hear about our boy Zion? Grade 2 adductor strain. That's three to six weeks.

Come on, man.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

Gary Vee, I think the point he.

[Guest Analyst]

Made in the Medina piece that I thought was so interesting was just that.

[Bomani Jones]

He'S like, look man, if you do the same thing over and over again, everything that's small in your mechanics just becomes exacerbated because you're doing that thing over and over and over again. So I'm just throwing this out there. One of your legs is a little shorter than the other one. Then you're going to be everything that comes from the compensation of that you're going to be doing over and over and over again. And that's going to lead to these problems, you know what I mean? Like the overuse goes from there. Had another person who works in college sports and he made the point that with basketball where he's like, the problem is we can't get these guys to stop doing these drills, right? We can't get these guys doing all of this. But I think you hit on a very important point, which is, is Cats are going to start a big campaign from all the leagues to be like, hey, play everything, right? MLB put some money in the hockey people. I guess they kind of could too, right? Everybody put some money in and encourage everybody to play everything. The cross train need a new BO Knows campaign.

[Vinny Goodwill]

That would be great. Like. Like we are just old enough to have played. Even if you didn't play like high level stuff, but you played everything, even if it's just playing in the street, like playing with guys, you know what I mean? Like playing stickball, so to speak. You know what I'm like, you still did other things besides the one sport all year round. Especially if you are in a place where you got easy access to a gym or there's great weather so you're gonna be outside every day or whatever it is. Like people would say, man, y' all was playing on concrete and I messed your knees up maybe. But there was also times that we just didn't or we played other things now because guys have access to gyms and you get access to trainers and you get the AAU circuit and everything else, like that's going to be where the NBA has to go to AAU and either completely take it over and remake it so that the product that you get when you get to the NBA is a little bit more sustainable or like you said, and partner with the NFL, partner with Major League Baseball for something to where not everybody's just playing one singular sport. I think it creates better athletes, to be perfectly honest.

[Bomani Jones]

It creates better athletes. But I think the thing that sucks about it is everybody's afraid that they slipping behind, right? Because somebody else is working just a little bit more and somebody else's game is getting to this place. And I hear you, but you're not going to get to a place where I believe that there is anything more important in terms of where you're going to end up than natural physical endowments, right? Like, I still think to this day that if somebody take Joel Embiid, for example, if somebody had found Joel Embiid in Cameroon when Joel Embiid was 16 years old, just found him and he was as rough and raw and everything else with his game. Drop him in the draft at 18, he go number one. Right. Like somebody sees the body and sees what is possible. They still going to take that cat in that sp. Like or even if they're not in the end game, I guess what. I am not sure how much of this ground and pound that is happening to these, these kids when they're in middle and high school. I'm not sure they're actually getting returns out of it.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Well, it's almost like what you say about the NFL with the running backs.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Vinny Goodwill]

When a run like you pay for the yard, someone else pays for the carries. Like the high school, high schools in aau, they. I won't say they're getting the best versions because the players aren't as physically mature and they're not getting the best coaching and everything else, but they're getting something out of it that the NBA has to wind up paying for. That's why not just even the practicality of, let's say you playing 10 fewer games, you think none of the injuries are going to happen. And I'm like, generally I rock with Steve Kerr on a bunch of things on a bunch of different level. Just that on this one. And there's this brigade of people who are just saying shorten the season. Are you people high? It's not just. Is it not practical to give up 10 games and everything else? What you think these dudes gonna do during the days that they don't have games is not going to stop them from doing the skill work. It's not going to stop them from training and everything else. They're already not practicing. It doesn't mean they're going to stay off of their feet. And then what happens when the injuries go then, oh, this cut the season 62 games. Well, where is the line of demarcation? The NFL is going to go to an 18 game regular season. Regular season, season pretty soon. And you're saying let's cut it down to 72. Are y' all crazy?

[Guest Analyst]

No, it's just, it's, it's.

[Bomani Jones]

It's tough for the league, man. Like, it's a, it's. And it's a problem that's bigger than everybody else. And the problem obviously is caused by the fact it's a lot of money in that summer basketball. It's a lot of money in this game. Of training in all of these things and I'm just not. I saw Andre Miller on one of those podcasts and he was like, I ain't paying no money for no trainers, man. He was like, you know what? You know, you know what you got to do? Play five on five basketball. That's. You're never going to convince me that there's anything better for somebody's game than.

[Guest Analyst]

Playing 5 on 5 basketball.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I don't, I don't get why playing basketball is so, Is such like this ew, stinky sort of thing that guys have nowadays. It's, it's. The only way you get better is being able to read and react to the way. And especially because today's game is almost so homogenized where it's going to be high pick and roll, it's going to be, it's going to be draw two, swing, whatever it is. Like you have to be able to react to different situations. That's why it seems like some basketball players are so robotic, because it's like, man, we just gonna go from catching the ball from, from the corner to the next action. It's literally like they're not even thinking for themselves. And the only way you break out of that is if you are just start playing natural basketball and you don't become better at basketball unless there's a series of things that happen that you can't expect and you understand, oh, I could think for myself here and I can figure this out. So much of hooping is just figuring it out. Like, whatever happened, Bo, I wasn't the best dude at my age, but dudes always told me, hey man, you going to play with us? We the older dudes. You the smallest dude out here and you're the youngest dude out here. The only way you're going to get better is by hooping against us and getting your ass kicked, going down the lane and getting knocked on your ass and being able to take that and getting up and hooping. Whatever happened to that?

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, it's a time, man, but it's gonna. I just wanna see how this all goes.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Are we the two old men at the theater? The two Muppets? Like, it's.

[Bomani Jones]

No, we might be, but I mean, but no, but I don't even think we. That. Cause what we talking about though is like, hey man, Victor Wim Bama Calf. Oh, right. Like, like, like this is. We're looking at these red flags. Come up with the next generation of.

[Guest Analyst]

Some of the most incredible basketball players that we've ever seen.

[Bomani Jones]

The One guy that I think will play forever, though, my man Jokic. He like, look, man, y' all out here doing all this jumping, not your boy. And he is, by the way, currently putting up.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't even want to talk about it because it's so obscene. Like, they should take us off the air for talking about what Jokic is.

[Bomani Jones]

The man's leading the league in rebounding.

[Guest Analyst]

And assists while putting up 29 points.

[Bomani Jones]

A game at splits of 62 and 44 and 85. Like, this is, this is, this is nuts. But I want to, I want to get this in right fast before we go.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I know, like, it feels like a tease just to throw that out there.

[Bomani Jones]

But before we, I want to ask.

[Guest Analyst]

You about this before we go.

[Bomani Jones]

Are the Thunder about to win 75 games?

[Vinny Goodwill]

If they want to. You know what? I'm like you, you know what it is, it, it doesn't look impressive. And when I say that, like, the 2016 warriors looked spectacular because they just played the three point game and it was Steph at like the absolute sort of peak of his powers. And they literally ran away from you like during second quarters. Oklahoma City, like last night, it was a close game against the Stephen Curry and Jimmy Butler list. Golden State Warriors. And Golden State led by three, like in the fourth quarter. And then like, I wound up falling asleep. Cause I'm old and I wake up like two hours later and it was, you know, a double digit lead. Bo. They don't overwhelm you the way that the 96 Bulls did with the Dobermans and the way that the 16 warriors did with just like the sheer volume. They do just enough. It's like they beat you by four every quarter. Beat you by four, beat you by four, beat you by 4, beat you by 4. And then you wind up, wait, we lost by 20.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah. Cause they're winning by 15 points a night.

[Vinny Goodwill]

That's, that, isn't that crazy?

[Bomani Jones]

Like, like they, they're winning by 15 points a night. And they did most of this without their second or third best player.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Um, where do you sit on J Dub?

[Bomani Jones]

I mean, to be your second or third best player and the fact that you have another player that is as good or close to being as good with Chet. Cause I mean, look, Chet's putting up.

[Guest Analyst]

Second best player type numbers, you know, Whew.

[Bomani Jones]

Like, I, I, I did not love J Dub during the playoffs. And then we found out that he was actually very hurt, right? Like, oh, my bad, dude. And they gonna get the, it's gonna be they like the Lakers of 82, they can win a championship and they go draft James Worthy. Cause look, they could wind up with a super high pick in this draft. And this is a draft that people are saying is has a bunch of guys that could be that guy. Now granted the last time somebody told me that was 2014. And that didn't really work out that way, right. Wiggins, Jabari Parker and B, it didn't exactly work out that way. But the Thunder be cheating, man. They cheat on offense and they cheat on defense. Right. I don't understand how it is that they out here on defense not getting called for none of that stuff that look like fouls and on offense stuff that ain't fouls get called fouls when they got the ball. I don't understand how they managed to do both.

[Vinny Goodwill]

It is amazing the way that the magic of Shay Gilge's Alexander's game is legit. I'm going to fear you into following me. I'm going to fear you into leaving me open. Either way I'm going to get a good look or a great look or I'm going to get fouled. Like it's just. He has legit mastered the game in terms of space. Like in terms of this is a box that I'm going to operate in. And within these 18 inches of wherever I'm at, when I'm dribbling the ball and where your hand is or where your shoulder is or where my shoulder is, I. I'm going to master that. It is not necessarily like aesthetically pleasing, but man, is it effective. And here's the other thing, Bo. The crazy thing was you said 82 and worthy in the Lakers. You know what year I thought of.

86 in the Celtics.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, yeah. Knock on some wood, partner.

[Bomani Jones]

We can't. We can't put that.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah. We can't have. Yeah, we can't. You know, if. Look, if the Thunder were a big city team who had won the championship, off to a 21 and one start and head could have up to three lottery picks the next year. If they were the Lakers, do you know how many Comic Sans.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Letters would be written to Adam Silver saying, hey dog, this ain't it. But because it's the Thunder, we got to say, oh man, this is great. We're going to be in Oklahoma City in June for the next five years, baby.

[Bomani Jones]

Yo, I don't. I don't even know what Presti supposed to do. Right. Like they are set up in such a way that what it should be now Is all right, we got all these young guys, we got all these assets. Now we can package that and finally get us the guy that'll put us over the top. Now we can go get a superstar. Nah, you got one. You got the second best player in the NBA and then you got Jaylen Williams. And by the way, the only guy that got. That's a super high draft pick is Chet. I keep like that. The whole thing about the tank argument, you can tank all you want, but the real key is knowing what you're doing. Cause this team is not built with high picks. That warriors run, I mean, they went and got Kevin Durant. Yes. But before that, the only super high pick was Andrew Bogan. Like, that's not how they put this thing together.

[Vinny Goodwill]

You gotta know your draft picks like in today's. And I make this point so much in today's second apron world, where rookie scale, big boy maxes, there's such a schism between the two. If you can get the draft right and you can pay your players under the rookie paradigm of the maxes before they graduate to the big boy maxes after year seven or eight, that's the only way that you can have something truly sustainable in the draft era where you get your draft picks right, you develop them or they turn to max players, but they're little max players. And you hope that the money in the league doesn't burst, that the money keeps growing to where you can continue to pay your guys, that it doesn't catch you. But it's only like two or three teams. Like, if you think about, if you think about this. Name me the three best teams in basketball right now. If you name me the three best teams in basketball, I'll tell you what they got in common. I'm just curious if you rock with me on this one.

[Guest Analyst]

All right.

[Bomani Jones]

I would be inclined to say at.

[Vinny Goodwill]

This moment, just at this moment, y'.

[Bomani Jones]

All could be at the moment, Detroit, Oklahoma City.

[Guest Analyst]

You know, I have a soft spot in my heart for the, for the Denver Nuggets, but probably Houston coming in there, huh?

[Vinny Goodwill]

Right. And Denver is the. Is could be the second best team in the West. And I know I said the Lakers, but like recalibrate that.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Vinny Goodwill]

But Detroit.

The Thunder, the Rockets, they have in common is they got their draft picks right in there winning with the draft picks. With Detroit, it's Cunningham, it's Duran, it's Stewart, it's Thompson, it's Holland, it's all those guys in Houston. And then you traded a couple of them for Kevin Durant, but you still got Thompson and Shingoon. And now you're adding.

[Bomani Jones]

Hold on. And the couple that you traded were the ones that you didn't get as.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Right, Right, right. Which. Which you didn't have to. But. But other teams are being put in positions where they have to take a flyer because they didn't have the draft capital. And now the Thunder. This is what happens. If you get the draft right. You have the trust of whatever you've built and you can take advantage of the teams that didn't. Like, if you're the Clippers and you don't have a first, you may have to trade one. You may have to trade James Harden or see if James Harden wants to go just to see if you can get into the draft. Because if you can't get into the draft and your cap is tied up, you legit have no hope.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Bomani Jones]

And they gave Sam Presti. They had to. I didn't think it was a bad decision when they made it, but it is now looking like the worst trade in NBA history. Yeah, it's the. It's the Herschel Walker trade.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yep.

[Bomani Jones]

Like that's. That's the exact comp for the Paul George trade, which again made sense. They had some bad breaks, some things that didn't go right. If Kawhi Leonard does not get hurt in 2021, I think they have a strong argument that they could have pushed through because Paul George was really good.

[Guest Analyst]

In that postseason, as I.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yes, he was. Yes, he was.

[Bomani Jones]

But it didn't work. And for the Thunder, they had two down years. That was really it. Two down years. And now they look like they're going to be annoying and unbeatable maybe forever.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Well, here I won't push back against that. But I will say this. Last year I thought Boston was walking to June. And a funny thing happened on the way to June was in the second round against the Knicks, a team they had dominated throughout the season. They got popped. I thought the Denver Nuggets after winning that title in 23, I thought they were walking to June. And a funny thing happened on the way to June. Minnesota with Rudy and Towns and Anthony pop them. I'm not saying the same thing is going to happen. I am saying that in today's NBA it is far more dyna. This thing don't last as long as you think it does. Kevin Durant go to state. Worst thing lasted for three years.

[Bomani Jones]

Right. Okay.

[Vinny Goodwill]

They've broken the game.

[Bomani Jones]

Right. But here's what I would say about that. Denver was not out There with the.

[Guest Analyst]

Same team, and they sacrificed a lot of their depth going from.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Agree.

[Guest Analyst]

Going from that one year to the next.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Agreed.

[Bomani Jones]

Boston. We have to remember them. Boys have miles on them, right? Like that. The core of that team had been together for what, seven years at that point, give or take. Like, we're coming in that zone, brother. This is just the beginning with these guys. They had the one year where they lost to Dallas in the second round, and then they came back and won the championship. Their best player is 27 years old. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's. That's the cause. I agree with you. Anything can happen. Except those other teams were not in positions to reload. And like Boston, for example, depending on.

[Guest Analyst]

Christoph Porsengas, which is always going to be a right. Like, we'll see.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Could that be. Oh, could that be Oklahoma City? Depending on the health of Chad Holmgren.

[Bomani Jones]

I mean, it could be.

[Vinny Goodwill]

But I'm not. I'm not saying that you're wrong and I'm not saying. Right, right.

[Bomani Jones]

But this is what I'm saying.

[Vinny Goodwill]

You know what I mean?

[Bomani Jones]

If it does turn out that Chet's held the problem, they can just go get something else.

[Vinny Goodwill]

The game just rewinds.

[Bomani Jones]

That's what I'm saying. Like, that's the difference here, is if one of these things doesn't work out. Hey, man, go into Ashtray, get some change, run to the store right fast and go and go get me another big man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it. It's just in there. It's in there. Don't you worry. Like, you go to the Thunder. You go to the Thunder Ashtray with the change in it, and it's got a hundred dollar bill in it.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Hey, it's like. It's like the Coach prime line. I'm bringing my luggage with me, and my luggage is. Louie.

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah. They're like, yo, why is your crown raw bag so light? I thought you had. Oh, man, this is just people money. It don't even jingle. That's like, yeah, that's what we got.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Baby it forward, baby. It just followed.

[Bomani Jones]

That's what we got, man. It's gonna be a year. Vinny. Goodwill. Check him out. ESPN covering the NBA. Next time we get you there, we gotta talk about the Knicks. We didn't have a chance. You get to watch this up close now. Like, you are knee deep in New York basketball.

[Vinny Goodwill]

I get the Karl Towns experience. The Bond goes in the threes.

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, man, the Bondos are threes. And by the way, he is bottom 10 field goal. Percentage at the rim. And you know who else is. And this is going to be an.

[Guest Analyst]

Interesting discussion as this year goes on.

[Bomani Jones]

Cade Cunningham.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, I see that.

[Bomani Jones]

Under 60% field goal percentage at the.

[Guest Analyst]

Rim, which I think is a bit of a flag. And who's lower than both of them, if I am not mistaken. And this is just sad. Zion Williamson.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Yeah, that's pretty. Look, look. I'm surprised Zion even qualifies, man.

[Guest Analyst]

Just didn't have to be that way. Shouldn't have gone to Duke.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Hey, look. Hey, I look. Yeah. What? Yeah, and look. Once the tire blew on them shoes. Ain't never been the same since that happened.

[Guest Analyst]

That happened. Shouldn't have gone to Duke.

Shouldn't have gone to Duke. That's all I'm saying. Cam, Boozer, it's not too late. You can leave and go somewhere else.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Think about it for a second. Hop in the portal right now. Go to Carolina.

[Bomani Jones]

Hey, they'll take you.

Say it.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm sure they'll take you, my brother.

[Bomani Jones]

I appreciate you all.

[Vinny Goodwill]

Love brother.

[Guest Analyst]

All right now, ladies and gentlemen, thanks.

[Bomani Jones]

So much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumley handed everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-59-677677. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like Rate us, Review us, Give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.

[Wayfair Advertiser]

Ordinary checking a $300 head start on checking. Ordinary savings High yield savings that grow your money. Ordinary mortgage A mortgage with a rate that drops when the market does. Why settle for with Oregon State Credit Union you get all sorts of welcome to human to human banking Oregon State Credit Union insured by NCUA equal housing lender. $25 minimum balance required. Subject to change terms and conditions.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity therapy, theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it. Guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply.