Vinnie Goodwill on Embiid's & 76ers last stand, Knicks' title chances, NBA lottery reform | 04.29

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Right Time with Bomani Jones Episode: Vinnie Goodwill on Embiid's & 76ers last stand, Knicks' title chances, NBA lottery reform | 04.29 Date: April 29, 2026 Host: Bomani Jones | Guest: Vinnie Goodwill (ESPN)

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Episode Overview

This episode features Bomani Jones in conversation with ESPN’s Vinnie Goodwill, taking a deep dive into the current NBA playoffs, team identities, the rise of the New York Knicks, Embiid and the 76ers’ playoff resilience, evolving player narratives, and a thorough discussion on the new NBA lottery reform. The tone is insightful, humorous, and candid, with both hosts bringing in personal anecdotes, league history, and honest takes on both players and franchises.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Knicks' Rise and Fan Culture (00:00–08:30)

• Vinnie discusses his emergence as a Knicks beat reporter and the intense local celebrity status covering the Knicks brings.
  • Quote: “The Knicks being good is good for business for me either way, baby.” – Vinnie (03:38)
• They reflect on how Knicks fandom has evolved; what used to be hopefulness due to decades of losing has become a bit more boisterous and, as Bomani puts it, sometimes “annoying.”
  • Quote: “They was humble when I got here... they ain’t quite as humble as they were when I first got here.” - Bomani (04:49)
• Comparison made between the Knicks and the New York Rangers as franchises with loyal but long-suffering fan bases.

2. Knicks’ Playoff Ceiling & Player Utilization (08:30–16:52)

• Deep analysis of the current Knicks roster, particularly the challenge of maximizing Karl-Anthony Towns' usage without upsetting the balance with Jalen Brunson and the rest of the team.
  • Quote: “The question is, how do you give Karl Towns the amount of touches that his talent demands without putting him in positions where he feels like he gotta force his offense?” – Vinnie (12:07)
• Recognition that while the Knicks have a high playoff ceiling, strategic player management is crucial for success, especially against stronger adversaries like the Celtics.

3. Celtics and Jason Tatum's Comeback (16:52–22:23)

• Skepticism about the Celtics’ ceiling due to inconsistencies from key role players (notably Derrick White) and lingering questions about Jason Tatum’s true recovery post-injury.
  • Quote: “I want to see Jason Tatum play every other day... The defense gets better as you go along, you get more fatigued as you go along. And yeah, that’s the question.” – Vinnie (20:06)
• Bomani draws a comparison between Tatum and Kevin Durant’s recoveries, highlighting that perceived returns to form don’t always match the numbers.

4. The 76ers, Joel Embiid, and Momentary Greatness (21:48–23:44)

• Praise for Embiid’s ability to “dial it up one more time,” though both hosts agree it’s hard to expect consistent greatness from him due to injuries and history.
  • Quote: “At his best, [Embiid] is a legitimate contender for being the best player in the NBA.” – Bomani (21:48)
• Broader discussion on aging stars (LeBron, Durant, Curry) being able to still hit “high notes” for a night, but perhaps not consistently across a series.

5. The Lakers, Rockets, and Western Playoff Landscape (23:44–27:42)

• Assessment of the Lakers’ (and LeBron’s) current playoff journey, plus thoughts on Austin Reaves’ return and the Rockets’ sporadic dominance due to their athleticism.
  • Quote: “When [LeBron] believes, he makes you believe. And if the jump shot is going... he can still hit those high notes for a night.” – Vinnie (23:44)
• Both hosts agree that whoever wins between Lakers/Rockets is likely to be overmatched by Oklahoma City.

6. San Antonio Spurs, Victor Wembanyama, and Team Building (30:00–42:49)

• Detailed analysis of the Spurs’ meteoric rise, led by Wembanyama (“Big Slim”), and comparisons to early 90s Magic teams.
  • Quote: “We’ve never seen a dude 8ft tall with handles.” – Bomani (31:29)
• Emphasis on the team’s structure: length, defensive switchability, and versatile ball-handling—crediting coach/team-building for assembling “a squad full of American dogs.”
• Humorous riff on mistaking player backgrounds, namely thinking “Shad Pimple” was French, only to discover he’s from Staten Island.

7. Detroit, Orlando, & Playoff Team Building (42:49–48:09)

• Critique of Detroit’s unwillingness to augment their roster at the trade deadline, suggesting a lack of belief in their own progress.
  • Quote: “Not only one that says to me you don’t believe you’re a championship team, but also... is that some organizational malpractice?” – Vinnie (43:27)
• Conversation on young teams (like Orlando and Detroit) learning through adversity, the perils of not investing in competitive upgrades, and player development stories.

8. NBA Lottery Reform and Anti-Tanking Moves (48:09–54:24)

• Both hosts respond positively to the NBA’s new lottery reform, which lowers odds for the three worst teams, with additional measures to prevent repeat tanking.
  • Quote: “The tanking has gotten so bad and so blatant that you have to take extreme measures.” – Vinnie (49:23)
• Debate about whether penalizing ‘just bad’ teams is fair, but general consensus is that competitive games must be incentivized.
• Bomani applauds Adam Silver’s leadership and public tone: “It should be embarrassing to lose... It’s good to hear a commissioner talk about the sport in those terms.” (51:00)
• Criticism of "The Process" era in Philadelphia, arguing that cultivating losing habits can damage player development, even if it produces top prospects.

9. Kawhi Leonard & League-Level Accountability (58:45–end)

• Brief commentary on the ongoing Kawhi Leonard situation, suggesting the NBA’s approach to public opinion and internal discipline will be worth watching.
• Anecdotes about team management politics and the ripple effects of league investigations.
  • Quote: “I am not. I don’t have reason to believe fully that [salary cap circumvention] is what’s going on... But we’re going to see.” – Bomani (60:14)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “The Knicks being good is good for business for me either way, baby.” – Vinnie (03:38)
• “At his best, [Embiid] is a legitimate contender for being the best player in the NBA.” – Bomani (21:48)
• “We’ve never seen a dude 8ft tall with handles.” – Bomani (31:29)
• “The question is, how do you give Karl Towns the amount of touches that his talent demands without putting him in positions where he feels like he gotta force his offense?” – Vinnie (12:07)
• “It should be embarrassing to lose... It’s good to hear a commissioner talk about the sport in those terms.” – Bomani (51:00)
• “The tanking has gotten so bad and so blatant that you have to take extreme measures.” – Vinnie (49:23)
• “Why can’t they beat Oklahoma City? ... The fact that we have not had a champion even get to the Western Conference finals or the conference finals, that’s crazy.” – Vinnie (41:48)

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–08:30 – Knicks coverage, fan culture, beat reporting
• 08:30–16:52 – Knicks’ playoff prospects, Karl Towns & Brunson dynamic
• 16:52–22:23 – Celtics, Tatum, “star” injuries and playoff reliability
• 21:48–23:44 – Embiid’s playoff performance & superstar “one-night highs”
• 23:44–27:42 – Lakers, Rockets, OKC and the West
• 30:00–42:49 – San Antonio Spurs, Wembanyama, team culture
• 42:49–48:09 – Detroit Pistons, Orlando Magic, team building strategies
• 48:09–54:24 – NBA Lottery reform, anti-tanking philosophy
• 54:24–60:00+ – Critique of tanking culture, Philly “Process,” Kawhi Leonard situation

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Memorable Moments

• Bomani jokingly mistaking a player’s background due to his name and later finding out in a YouTube comment (38:56–40:00).
• Extended riff on Knicks’ fans' level of humility or lack thereof over the years (04:23–04:49).
• Candid discussion drawing parallels in team-building speeds—OKC and San Antonio's rapid ascent compared to traditional team growth arcs (35:00–36:00).
• Reflection on anti-tanking reforms and the morality of teaching young NBA players to compete (51:00–54:24).

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode stays true to Bomani’s trademark mix of incisive sports analysis and cultural commentary. Both hosts layer industry-insider perspectives with rich historical context, all wrapped in a conversational (often hilarious) style. Listeners are left with acute insights into playoff team dynamics, the realities of NBA team-building, and the imperative for league policies that value competition over “gaming the system.”

A must-listen for NBA fans trying to navigate the 2026 playoffs and anyone interested in the underlying mechanics driving league reforms and franchise behavior.

Transcript

[A]

Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time, a Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening. Wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is the time of week where we have a guest join us coming to us live from espn. You may have seen he be on all the ESPN shows now, boy. That boy. Vinny Goodwill. Will Vince Goodwill be on tv? You know what I'm saying? Vinny Goodwill over here hanging out with us.

[B]

Yeah. The rebrand, as Malika Andrews calls it. I'm like, it's not a rebrand. The graphic will forever say the birth name. And whatever y' all call me is gonna be what y' all call me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You. You ride now more. It depends on where you are names right now. The 80 box. I think I told you about my brother. My brother's name is Patrice Patrice Lumumba. He is Lumumba. If you know him from growing up. If you know him from adult life, he is Patrice. But there's this very interesting in between period when he was in college and he was Patrick.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And so when people call up, like, back when people used to call the whole phone for Christmas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We could tell if they were calling for my brother. We had a very good handle on where they were from life, based on whatever the name was that got called you right now, like, it's all over the place.

[B]

Well, if you call me Vince, like, that's. That's the tale. The tale is if you call me Vince, then somebody's probably like, you don't know this guy very well. You're. You're new here. You know what I mean?

[A]

Or they are facetiously trying to needle you, as I have witnessed with my own eyes before.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, Nick fans, they just call me Goodwill. Like, all of a sudden, you just become your last name. When people are yelling at you through a tunnel and asking you of your thoughts. It ain't Vincent. It ain't Vinny. It is just Goodwill.

[A]

But also, Goodwill is a good. Like, Goodwill's a name where people will call you by your last name, Right? Like it's a name that's got a ring to it. Like, it's the sort of thing where people will like, especially depending on the circles you're in. Yeah, you'. Goodwill. New York is a place where you call people by last names, too. That's the other part of it.

[B]

Oh, Yeah, I ain't tripping on that. Like, when I lived in Chicago, it was. They would call me Detroit. I was like, why y' all calling me by this?

[A]

Because you were trolling them.

[B]

I mean, I was.

[A]

Because you were covering the Bulls and you were trolling them.

[B]

I was trolling Scotty Pippen. I was trolling a very specific set

[A]

you did of the Bulls.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

Okay, That's. That's that great, great story, dog. Great story, dog. Speaking of great story, you've been on this year, New York Knicks beat, which before we get to the basketball of it, that just has to be interesting for you, like you are now. Remember, like, we had caught up with Monica. That it was. It was the night of Brody got drafted in the Joe Biden debate.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it was. I remember I was talking to you about this. I was like, look what happens when we go out with Monica. Like, we go out with Monica. I've been on television for a very long time. None of that matters in New York city with Monica McNutt, because she covers the Knicks, right? Like, she is the one there. You are now a cover, the Knicks guy in New York City.

[B]

Which is weird to me because, for one, we were in Atlanta. Monica, David Dennis, a few of us out of some restaurant, and people were like, monica is, like, there.

[A]

Oh, Star Jack.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a different. And, you know, we love Monica around here. You know what I mean? But it was kind of funny. And then they said you could hear somebody in the background say, oh, yeah, that's my man from first take. And I'm looking at David Dennis like, I think they talking about you, dog. Like. Like he was the only. He was the only light at the table. So I'm like, yeah, this is probably your thing, but, yeah, the problem with Knick fans is that they think, Bo. That I'm a Piston fan just because the Pistons had kicked the Knicks ass this year. So now that the Pistons are down three one, what you gonna say about the Pistons? The same shit I said before the playoffs started. That they was going to have problems because of what they going through. The Knicks. The Knicks being good is good for business for me either way, baby.

[A]

Yeah, you got here. You know what it is, though? You got here a little bit late. Because when I got here, man, they had been so beat down and down and out, man. They was just hoping you say the littlest thing nice about what might happen to their team, man. That's why I started to rock with them, man. Because they was humble when I got here. I don't know how humble they still are because I was out there kind of posted up around the arena yesterday before the game, just, you know, taking in the vibes before I went to dinner. Yeah, they, they ain't quite as humble as, as they were when I first got here.

[B]

They're annoying. Like, that's what it they want.

[A]

Don't say that, don't say that, don't say that.

[B]

They need the validation. Like. And there's nothing more. There's nothing more. And you notice from different fan bases, from whatever, let's say college football.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They want you to bow down and say, tell us we're good, tell us we're good.

[A]

No, no. But they don't want, it's not that they want you to bow down.

[B]

Yeah, they do.

[A]

They want you. Nah, they want you to help raise them up. I am in the moment teaching you how to optimistically discuss the people you are going to encounter on the streets in your daily life.

[B]

You know what it is though? Most of the people are generally okay. It's the people online that are a bit chef.

[A]

That's a different situation.

[B]

And you know, the funny thing is when you're in Madison Square Garden, of course. Cause they sit us up high. Cause they don't want us anywhere near anybody. So we sit closer to the rafters. So on one end you got all those retired jerseys for the Rangers, you got all those banners for the New York Rangers, Stanley Cups and all this other type of stuff. You look up over your head and you're like, huh, Wal Frazier, Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed. That's it.

[A]

No, see, you overstating the situation though. They just did. They did a run fairly recently of jersey retirements for the Rangers. Number one. Like that's a, that's a big thing. Number two, keep in mind the Rangers have won two Stanley Cups in the last 75 years. Two. Like the Knicks and the Rangers, low key. The same. Like when you start talking about New York sports outside of the Yankees, the situation is a little bit more sparse than it is given credit for being. Now, I don't know how much you remember this. We have a, A not big age difference, but this is enough where it might matter. I don't know if you remember what a big deal it was when the Rangers won the Stanley cup in 1994. Yeah, like it was a dominating sports story. And the idea was the Rangers had not won the Stanley cup in 50, 54 years. How long has it been since the Knicks won the NBA championship, what, 55, 53, 73 was the last time they did. So we don't talk about their championship gap in those terms where with the Rangers. And I think it was more. It was more. More jarring with the Rangers because for a decent period of that time, there are only six teams in the league, right? So you've got a zillion for Montreal. Toronto has a zillion. The Rangers, I want to say in some total have three or something like that, but it's been 53 years. We don't talk about it like it's a curse. We don't talk about it like it's misery. We just like. We treat the Knicks like they're a venerable franchise in the history of the NBA. And that's actually not true. They don't have the stripes that line up with that. Right. But they had the best. I. I contend, as annoying as they can be in there, out of town, in town, Knicks fans, they're probably the best basketball fans that you're going to find. They got the best vibe in an arena that you're going to find. They have a team this year that has. If they don't go to the NBA Finals, there's no excuse, right? I don't think it's a championship team, but they're good enough to win the east this year. And they got out here playing against the Hawks and I remember watching game three and it was just like, well, shit, somebody has to win this game. It's just gonna be either the Knicks or the Hawks.

[B]

Well, I mean, the crazy thing I've been saying, the Knicks should get to the NBA Finals all season long. And the Knicks think that I'm trolling them as if just like, wait, shouldn't you want high expectations?

[A]

No, no. Because they feel like you just saying that so that if they don't make it, you can take them down. Like, I got a friend named Joel. He do stuff like that. That's what they afraid of.

[B]

Joel is diabolical.

[A]

Joel is trying to make sure no matter what, he is not on the side of the L. Nobody is better at putting a little buddy on this side and a little buddy on that side. Then my bad, Joel Anderson.

[B]

I got no look for one. Joel is hilarious, right? What's the whole thing that he's about to do or he's going to do? He's going to train and run against

[A]

him and Billy gon race.

[B]

Yeah, it was my idea. Why would you do that?

[A]

Because Billy is a D1 athlete. Joel is a D1 athlete. The only thing is, I feel like Joel's about 10, 12 years older than Billy, but Joel needs something to look forward to.

[B]

And you're trolling Joel. What else?

[A]

I'm not trolling. No, I'm not trolling Joel at all.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Uh, oh, I'm not. No. I'm literally not trolling Joel at all. I knew that he would be up for a challenge like that. Like, I've talked to him about this. He would get in shape for it and stuff like that. This is the kind of thing that Joel likes. These kinds of things make Joel happy.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, I am quietly, secretly competitive, but only at, like, certain things. So if it's in that realm, then I'm probably just as motivated to get my shit right. So I'm 100% with you.

[A]

I decided in my, like, teens that my competitive streak was actually not good for me as a person and just decided to move on a path of self actualization. Right. Not really thinking that much about the rest of y' all just being on mine. But it is fun when every now and then something happens and it's like, all right, then I guess that's what we're gonna do. Cool.

[B]

Himbo brings it out of me.

[A]

That brings it out of me.

[B]

Bad Himbo. Himbo brings it out of me with the questions, and I get heated. I remember.

[A]

So for people who don't know, Himbo is the researcher on get up, and he does the trivia questions every day. And he's good, man. He got Graziano be handing his hand to him.

[B]

But, you know, every question I've gotten wrong, I've got Mark Eaton wrong. I've gotten Allen Iverson wrong. I've gotten Derrick Rose wrong. You want to know why I remember that stuff? Because I am furious that I got it wrong.

[A]

Yeah. Viddy is low key. A basketball encyclopedia. Like, it is amazing, the ability to, like, pull. Oh, that's. Oh, that series in 1997. No, no, they won that in six. Like. Like, Vinnie got it like that. Things that are prior to his frame of reference. One would think Benny got it like that. But about these Knicks, though. Yeah, they won game five, and that was a pretty emphatic win in game five to go along with a pretty emphatic win in Game 4. And I've been saying on here, the tricky thing for the Knicks is they can only go as far as people want them to if Carl Anthony Towns is their best player. And approaching ceiling, because the ceiling on Jalen Brunson just isn't as high as the ceiling on Carl Anthony Towns, who the more we think about this through this series, I mean through these, through this postseason, I feel like the only team that might have somebody who could guard him is Detroit. And they not gonna go that far.

[B]

No, the crazy thing about Towns is Towns has had two great games, Game four and game five. Bo, how many shots do you think that Karl Towns has taken in sum total the last two games?

[A]

It's not that high a number.

[B]

No, it's 17. 10 shots in game four, seven in game five. Seven shots. Like I get. Jalen Brunson scored like 17 in the fourth quarter to push it to a 30 point lead or whatever it was. But this imbalance and Carl hit the triple double in game four. So he had a decent amount of touches and he set up OGN and Obi for a lot. But this has been the question all season long since I started hanging around this team a little bit more. Like, usually I'm on Eastern Conference, but I live in New York, so I'm gonna see them a lot more. The question is, how do you give Karl Towns the amount of touches that his talent demands without putting him in positions where he feels like he gotta force his offense? You know, it's a real delicate walk, but seven shots, even in a 30 point win, ain't gonna get it done. Next round against the Celtics. Like there is something and it's an impactful seven shots. He was five of seven, you know what I mean? Like he has the range. And I've come to be more sympathetic towards Karl Towns. Like, you know, I think since that Minnesota Denver series a couple years ago where he did a lot of the work guarding Nicola Jokic in that seven game series, I've started to look at Karl Towns a little bit, a little with different set of eyes, right? Like he's maddeningly, maddeningly frustrating. Right? He's frustrating as all hell. But he's also playing on a team that does not prioritize him. And they need him to be the best version of himself if they're going to get to the finals. They need him to be a plus plus against the Celtics because as high, low variance as the Celtics are, who gonna be guarding Carl Towns in that series?

[A]

Let's say they have guys that can guard Jalen Brunson.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I'm not saying Jalen Brunson is the same as I s, A, I A. Yeah. Isaiah with two A's. Thomas.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm not saying he's the same as him, but obviously because he's a much bigger player. But still the thing about the smaller guard is there's a heated up ceiling or what I can do in this game, ceiling and a feeling that you go a little bit farther in this and that's just not going to work out the same way with Towns. He's either going to be bigger than anybody you ask to guard him or quicker than anybody asked to guard him. I. Aside from the dude in San Antonio, right. Like that's the only guy that you think would be able to handle him in both places. Otherwise, I just feel like he should be destroying these dudes. Like every. Like we talk about, the Hawks ain't got nobody that is has enough size to deal with him. And I know Mike Brown kind of wants to run a motion sort of situation, but that motion ain't creating a world that stops Jalen Brunson for taking 23 shots and nobody else takes more than eight.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. And where the. And if it's different like Carl Townsend, if I remember correctly, is third in shots in this series, not just behind Jalen Brunson, but behind OG Anunoby like. And OG's playing extremely well. I'm not like OG is very unsung in his way, but you gotta be able to figure out a way to me to get. Hey, Karl, look man, we know we can't just throw you the ball in the post and just say, hey man, go to work. Like he's not that type of player. Player. You don't give him sort of the maximum amount of touches in one spot and say take us home. He's the guy you got. He's almost like to some degree. Remember what you used to say about Carmelo. When Carmelo had a point guard, it was always the best you would get out of them. He gets some in the post, he gets some on a wing, he gets some on the elbow. He's like. He get a variety of touches in a bunch of different ways with somebody who was going to tell him no and somebody who was going to direct him. Right. Jalen Brunson is not that type of point guard. That's no shade to him, but he's an aggressively offensive point guard that's going to look for his shot first. His pick and roll game, excuse me, with Carl Thompson's gotten better, but his game is in. I'm going to put a lot of pressure on this defense and I'm going to take shots. That's fine. Once again, the problem is how can you maximize Towns while also making sure Brunson gets his while also figuring out how do you keep all these other guys involved? Cuz I say it, we say it all the time. We. It's not breaking glass here. A team that has a problem with defending at the point of attack and defending at the rim. Those teams don't win championships, right? Like you can have a liability one, but not the other. I think Carl is better at defending the rim than he is giving credit for. I think Carl in space is, is where you get some adventure. But they try not to put him there too much. That's why I still believe the Knicks have the highest ceiling of any team left in the Eastern Conference. It's just a matter of can they access said ceiling with how they play.

[A]

Now why would you say that the Celtics don't have the ceiling that the Knicks have?

[B]

Cause I don't know. In general, I think if Derrick White were better, right? And I'm not saying Derrick White is bad or anything like that, but usually your third best player eats off the attention of your first two best players. Like he was having a horrific shooting se season before Jason Tatum got back. And when Tatum got back, I said to myself, oh, it's not going to be Jaylen Brown that feast off the attention that Tatum gets. It's not even going to be Tatum that feasts off the attention that Jaylen gets. It's going to be that third guy. Because who has three good perimeter defenders? Nobody. Not. Not really. Maybe. Maybe even the Knicks do if they shift their lineups. He's supposed to feast off of that. He's shooting worse with Jason Tatum back. He's shooting 30% from three since March

[A]

6th and they were ignoring him last night or Wednesday night or Tuesday night. They were ignoring him.

[B]

So if that's the case, and remember this was, this was a thing a couple of years ago in the finals against Golden State where you had that really good game one and then you're looking around the rest of the series and you're like, do it again, do it again, do it again. And he couldn't replicate it right. So I wonder if you are the, if you are the Knicks and that's your ace in the hole. I do think that's a, a slightly higher ceiling. In addition to the fact I want to see Jason Tatum play every other day. I want to see Jayson Tatum start to move laterally with the atrophy and everything else. Like, I just want to see it like no team in the Eastern conferen even if Detroit was all the way right, no team in Eastern Conference is far and away better than anybody else. Anybody can be beat. You can see scenarios where the Celtics got to the Finals, the Knicks got to the Finals, the Cavs got to the Finals. The only team I truly didn't see getting to the Finals this year was Detroit. Because of the deficiencies that have popped up now. They just happen to pop up around or two earlier than I thought they would.

[A]

Yeah, the Celtics thing is interesting to me because I feel like Tatum, maybe Tatum is, to a degree, in the Kevin Durant space in this way. Um, the difference between Durant and Tatum is Tatum shots all look hard. Durant shots all look easy, right? Like, Kevin Durant is better at getting good shots than Jason Tatum is. Jason Tatum is from the Kobe system school of being good at hard shots. Right? We'd agree on that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But Kevin Durant has not been the same player since he tore his Achilles. But it sure looks like it, right? Like. Like the nature of his game and the way it goes. It sure looks like it. Tatum sure looks very similar to the player that he was before he got hurt, but he's not actually that player. I think. You know, I think you. If you look at it more numerically, look at advanced stats stuff, it's not. He's not exactly that guy, but it sure looks like it. And at times, it can feel like it. And for me, that. That can make it somewhat difficult to evaluate Boston. Like, I recorded a pod yesterday with some people, and I was just like, yeah, the Celtics are going to win the east because Jason Tatum came back looking like Jason Tatum. But has he actually come back looking like Jason Tatum? Cause I know that's been your question from the very beginning. It's just, once we start doing this in the postseason, then what are we talking about?

[B]

It's. It's atrophy, man. And. And just in general, like, I asked Mike Brown last night after they won, I'm like, look, you got a game five that you just took care of business. You got a game six in two days. The Celtics just lost. They got a game six in two days. How much is rest? And he's like, rest is important because the games are so much more physical in the playoffs that you gotta get guys off their feet. Now imagine if you're a guy coming back from an Achilles. Like, this is still, to me, extended rehab for Jayson Tatum. I'm not saying that he. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be playing. I'm Saying that what he is doing is still in the process of figuring out his body and all the steps. And the Kevin Durant thing, comparison you've made is critical to me because if you go look at some Kevin Durant film from say, 2014, like before the Liz Frank injury, and people forget he even had the Lis Frank, when you go look at that film, it looks like he's playing on 1.5 speed. You don't remember him being that upright, that quick, that. You know what I mean? Like, end to end fast. Now he's more. You got to rev it up. He's going to dribble, he's going to get to a spot and there's probably nothing you can do about it type of thing. If he hits a shot, he hits a shot. You shake his hand like Tatum never had that burst of athleticism. Even at 6:10, he was just going to shoot over the top of you. And if he hit a turnaround over the opposite shoulder, whatever it was, then you could live with that. The defense gets better as you go along. You get more fatigued as you go along. And yeah, that's the question that I have. Dude, they missed the last 15 shots last night against the team in Philly that I thought was ready to go home.

[A]

Hey, man, shout out to Joel for dialing it up one more time. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's. It's hard to expect anything from him going forward. That's not to say he can't do it, but you can't count on it. You can't rely on it just because of what we've seen the previous 12 years, really 13, you know, when it comes to his body and everything else. But he was that dude, right? Like, at his best, he is a legitimate contender for being the best player in the NBA. And it's cool to see him, even if it's just for one game. And it had a lot to do with the Celtics not being able to make nothing. It's good that he could dial it up for that one night.

[B]

Look, I think most of these playoffs, or at least the discussion has been about teams or players who could dial it up for one night, who could give you in a different game than a given game. They could be as good as or as great as they ever were. LeBron can be as good or as great as he ever was. I think somebody's. Hard to say, well, can, can, right, can, can. Not sure if he can hit those high notes right, but, you know, it, it. It's there. Like, I think the LeBron conversation has gotten a bit over the top. Cause when you look at the like. Like, this is a different. He's going against a really inexperienced team right now. That is being undermined probably by his head coach. You know what I mean? But in a given night, LeBron can be as good as he ever was. And if nothing else, LeBron is going to extract the best out of you. And maybe that's his best talent at this stage. Beyond, like, the physical gifts and everything else. When he believes, he makes you believe. And if the jump shot is going. If the jump shot is going, he can still hit those high notes for night. Kevin Durant, if he was healthy, could still hit the high notes for a night. That was the wish on Stephen Curry. For a night quietly. That's the wish on Nicola Jokic. At this stage, he's been.

[A]

Yeah, he. He is physically not right. I think that is a big part of it. But I think you hit on something that's important with the LeBron thing, which is. I think this game five is a little bit more important than I think we're giving it credit for. Like, obviously, the rockets go down 3, 0. We've kind of sort of written them off. But it is fair to say that the Lakers have played over their heads, or they did in those first three games in the. I mean, if that. That's. That is a reasonable hypothesis. I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but it's reasonable to say that it is not impossible to think that the Rockets could win Game five if they did win Game five. Oh, this one, like, gets to be interesting. But you touched on something with LeBron that I thought was. That is worth noting. And we've seen this as his career has gone, which is if he believes. Because once LeBron don't think there's a chance, then LeBron start getting real circumspect and talking about, like, how good life is and how important it is to have love from your family and everything else. Right.

[B]

He.

[A]

He can be a bit of a front runner in that way.

[B]

I can't believe this is my life.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he. He can get there. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they mess around and went down. 3, 2. I don't think Durant's going to play again anytime soon, but if the Rockets somehow were to dial this up and get it to be three, two. It'll be interesting. The Lakers bring it back. Austin Reeves, we'll see what he's got. We'll see how they work him back in. All of this stuff like this one is as close to over as you could expect. But I don't think it's 100% over.

[B]

No, it's not 100% over. The problem is you just don't. I don't know if I see a path.

[A]

Right. Four games in a row would be a.

[B]

No, not just that. No, no, not. Not just that. Just give me like a one game sample size. And the two games that the Rockets have beaten the Lakers this year and they've only beaten them twice. The two games that they've beaten them, they've beaten them down. I think they beat them on Christmas to like 20. And then they beat them the other night in a very predictable sort of. We're not going to get swept. Game four, beat them like that because they can overwhelm you athletically. Right. And when they lose, they lose close. It looks like a clown car. Is this team well coached? They don't have a point guard. Right? Did he just get the ball poked from behind like this is church league? Yes, he did. Right. Like those are the things. And it's always to me, game five, a team is going to go home if they lose. What happens is there's going to be these rushes throughout the course of the game. There's going to be a second quarter rush and then it's going to be like, you know, what do I feel like? Do we feel like holding on or do we just let go? It's going to be one in the third quarter. Do we feel like letting go? You know what I mean? Like, you can keep recovering and then you're going to be down 8 and you're feeling good about how you're playing. It's just within reach where you're like, we are one good rush away. But do we have that rush to give or is LeBron and Austin Reaves and his band going to just hit a couple of threes to make that eight point lead 14 and then you going home, like that's what the test is going to be tonight. Unless they overwhelm them like they did in game four. And I don't know if I necessarily see that happening because LeBron has these guys actually concentrating.

[A]

Yeah, that's, that's. If that, if that goes right, if that continues, they'll be. I mean, both of these teams are competing for the joy of having their doors blown off by Oklahoma City. I think we'd agree on that, right?

[B]

I mean, look, look, man, Jalen Williams is week to week with a grade one hamstring strain that has cost him almost like 50 games this year. And we never know the wiser.

[A]

Yo, it's like it doesn't even matter. Like he might not even actually be hurt right now. It is like my fault. Why take the risk?

[B]

Hey, go rest up for Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle and Devin Vassell and Big Slim. Just, just go ahead and get your rest. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll meet you on the Western Conference final.

[A]

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[A]

All right, back with Vinny, Goodwill, espn. How you say my man's name from Israel?

[B]

Advia. Vinny. Advia.

[A]

Advia. Advia. That boy Victor pitched his shit into the crowd so hard that for people who have certain politics, they felt they was looking at that. Like when Joe Louis knocked out Max Schmeling, like, that was. That was what the moment was for them. In that moment where he did that. If. If you had the politics of a certain sort of way, like, I made people feel real good. Like, I would not be surprised if Victor. Let me be careful. I don't want to put that on him. But I wouldn't be surprised if Victor looked at it that same way, based on the interviews I done see with him. They got Portland the fuck up out of there, dog. They just like, all right, enough of this. Let's go. They. I can't believe how good they are. And they're good in a way. I'm curious what you think about this part. In particular, I have raised the question about whether or not, like, how much winning you're really doing with de' Aaron Fox as the dude that brings the ball up the floor. But given that they don't need de' Aaron Fox to actually do that much, and then he just can be the closer, which he is very good at. Hey, man, this thing is happening. Like I think I said on the show the other day, we've never seen a team that hadn't done anything before. And I'm not counting the 08 Celtics in this because their guys were so old, right? Yeah, but we've never seen a team that never done anything before win a championship. But we've also never seen a dude 8ft tall with handles.

[B]

No. The one comparison that I had was the 95 Orlando Magic, right. Where in year two of Penny, year three of Shaq, but even then.

[A]

But they at least been to the playoffs before they had.

[B]

They had at least been to the playoffs before they got. They got swept in. Maybe it was a three, six. As the home team against Indiana in round one. Was it four or five?

[A]

Okay, I think it was four or five. You talk. I'll look it up.

[B]

I want to say Atlanta was the number one seed in.

[A]

Atlanta was the number one. You're right. Atlanta was the. No, yeah, it was four or five because Atlanta was the number one seed that year. And then Indiana.

[B]

Indiana. You're right, you're right, you're right.

[A]

But I tell you about this boy, though, what I tell you about his boy?

[B]

That was the year they traded. That was the year they traded.

[A]

February 24, 1994. That is the year it absolutely, absolutely did happen. They sure did.

[B]

That was wild. That was.

[A]

Motherfuckers sure did.

[B]

Like. But even to the point, you don't see teams that don't make for Danny

[A]

Manning, they ain't even come back.

[B]

Well, they didn't want to pay Dominique, right? Cause he was up, right?

[A]

The details don't matter to me, brother. Keep. Let's talk about the. Let's talk about the NBA today.

[B]

Let's talk about that. Hey, hey, Bo, I can relate. I know Barry Sanders.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

July 27, 1999.

[A]

I get. That was his choice. That was his choice. Anyway. Anyway, what are we talking about? What we talking about?

[B]

We talking about Big Slim. We talking about. And the point of Orlando in 95 was Shaq and Penny. And those were two supernovas. Like, legitimately, Shaq was Shaq at that point. And Penny was going into a more athletic, you know, Magic Johnson type of. Type of dude. You know, I mean, like an heir to Magic Johnson in a way. You could see that with this one. I was less worried about Victor Wembanyama and how he was going to perform in the playoffs. I was more worried about, hey, Dylan Harper's a rookie. Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson. And yeah, Darren Fox can go and he won the clutch player of the year award in Sacramento. But how does this work with this iteration of guys? And the answer is we can be down 15 in Portland at the half and win by 20. Like, this is the, this is the craziness of it. And then the way that it's setting up, who knows what happens? Game six, Minnesota and Denver. Minnesota could steal or Denver could still win that series just because of the atrophy that's going on with Minnesota right now. But no matter what happens, if you get Denver next round, they're going to be dog tired and still wearing the, the scent of the Minnesota Timberwolves. And you're going to be there resting and watching and the, the path of growing up. And this is a point that I've tried to make about the Detroit Pistons. We think, oh, you're just going to take a year by year stairstep process. This league moves too fast for that, man. Like, there is no more like Oklahoma City. Think about this, Bo. OKC went from best record in the west, losing in the second round to Luka Doncic to winning 60 games and winning it all on the span of 12 months and a year before that first number one seed. They were in the play in play in second round title. Like that's how quick it can go. And granted Oklahoma City is a completely different thing, but that's the path that the San Antonio spurs are on. So if you are expecting to get a win off of them, if you. It better be not. Cause you're probably not going to get one later. Yeah, man, he's only going to get. Did you. The fact that he spiked the ball in and almost hit one of them overhead cameras that they sit on top of the rim dog.

[A]

Look, it's like you remember like a Deion Sanders was at his peak. And the idea was you put Deion on your best receiver and that's that, right? You don't have to worry about that. What Victor has become is. Or the idea more accurate. The idea then was Deon covers a whole side of the field. It's not true, right? It's very close. But Deon covers a guy, right? Unless you do other things. But he covers a guy. And that's very, very important that he covers a guy. Victor is covering like a 15 foot radius around the goal, right? Like your favorite players are coming in the lane and being like up. How about I just go back outside? Yep, yep. I was just playing Victor. Nah, nah, nah, nah. It's no, it's no thing. And you talk about LeBron having his dudes believe it. These dudes believe.

[B]

Dude Big Vick is like that dog in the sandlot where they was just avoid. Hey, don't hit that ball over the yard. We can't. That ball is dead and gone now. Cause I forgot the dog's name. But that. That you ain't want no parts of that dog, right? That's Victor. And subsequently they are built in such a way that it is length, right? It's length and quickness. You know, Vasil is a dog. Castle is a big dog. Like Castle is in your face and he can afford to be in your face because he know what he got behind him. Yeah, like that's the crazy thing. And the one thing I thought they got criticism for very early was they got too many point guards. No, no, no. You have guys who can funnel passes to Vic at the rim. He's a rim threat no matter, right? He's a rim threat at any point on the floor, right? He can go run pick and roll or he can run back door or whatever it is. Because you got somebody capable of making a pass. You got Somebody capable of drawing to and creating some sort of inertia where he winds up being open. And you get all these switchable dudes where we can all funnel them down the lane to 7 5.

[A]

75 with timing, right? 75 with 8 foot width.

[B]

And he one of them dudes that. He's like, ooh, blood. Yes, I like this. Yeah, I like this.

[A]

Hey, man, let me give you a couple thoughts. One, remember Papa said that wild a few years ago about how the. The players from the other countries was less entitled than everything else in the Americas. Da, da, da. And they got a squad full of American dogs out there, right? I don't like. It's. It's worth noting, so. And look, Popovich is still very involved in the building of this roster. And the guys that they ultimately got right, somewhere along the way, I don't know, maybe they was over there getting them dudes from other places and they found out that some of them really wasn't that bow wow wow, you know what I mean? But they got. It's a bunch of dudes from Atlanta with dreadlocks on this team. Number two made an error in the last show, and I don't think it was that hard of an error to make, but an error I made nonetheless. That made me laugh at myself because I went on and on for as long as I did about this. I had assumed that Sham Pipple was from France because his name was kind of spelled the way it was, and he was playing with. With Vic. And after they got Cisco up out of there, I figured they were saying to themselves that they, you know, they need to get another. Another unfreil. You know, poor, poor Le Vic Grand. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what I thought. That. That's what.

[B]

You know where he from, right?

[A]

I. I do. Now, I did not know this at the time. That's the whole point of the goddamn story, is that I didn't know where he was from. And I was saying that Shad Pimple was from France when it turned out that Shad Pimple from Staten island, it's two of them. That explains why they don't say his name right. You know what I'm saying? Somebody in the YouTube was like, who gonna tell Bode from. Who gonna tell Bode from New York? And I was like, oh, man, my bad. I just. I ain't never listen. I ain't need to look them up. I ain't need to know how they. I know it's two of them, or, duh. You Know, I ain't need to look them up or nothing bad. I thought them dudes was from France. I thought that they was looking out for the. For the. For the franchise. Nah, man. Dudes right down the street.

[B]

Hey, don't also, don't forget they got the man who helped. Who helped shut down Magic City Mondays. I buddy Luke Cornett.

[A]

They do. They do. I would also like to say right fast, by the way, about Shan Pipple, which. Is he from Staten island, which might as well be France. It might as well be another country if he was Staten Island. Like, I never been there.

[B]

I never been there.

[A]

I've been here nine years. Shit ain't come up once. Not. Not one single solitary situation where the thought was, hey, man, let's go shoot down there to Staten island right quick. Okay. He grew up in Brooklyn. He was born in Staten island, but he grew up in Brooklyn. Okay. He went to the same high school as Mari Jackson. Yeah. Anyway, I ain't. No. My bad. Could say, you know, I say he look a little bit like Franklin St. Daddy on snowfall. Like, he, like, he's like, he's trending in that direction.

[B]

I didn't think about that.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? Who is the musician I'm thinking of, right? No, there's a musician specifically that had, like, you could tell when he started going bald exactly what the pattern is. Oh, Maurice White. That's what I was thinking about. Oh, he reminds me of Maurice White.

[B]

Whoa, whoa, that's a pool.

[A]

He reminds me of Maurice. He remind me of Maurice White in a one piece.

[B]

Okay, I got you. I got you that. Look, dude, these dudes are hungry. Like, that's the. That. That's the. That's the thing about it. Like, yeah, they ain't just go get any old American players. You know what I mean? Like, you did go get Dylan Harper. You got Steph Castle, who, you know, came from a program that was a crazy person was running it, you know what I mean? Like, yes, he. He can.

[A]

He.

[B]

He's okay. You know, Dylan Harper comes from good stock, right. His daddy is Ron Harper, who is awfully active on the Twitter, you know what I mean?

[A]

Like, oh, he is.

[B]

Oh. Oh, yeah. Harp is heart be online too much. It's a couple. It's like, can this really be your account? And then you find out that it is. Like, you can find out that it is, by the way, that somebody type.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, how much space is between these words? Yeah, this is somebody that. This is somebody that was born in the 1960s, you know what I mean? Like that type of thing. But yeah, why can't they, why can't they beat Oklahoma City? I'm not saying they will, right? But why can't they beat Oklahoma City? The fact that we have not had a champion even get to the Western Conference finals or the conference finals, that's crazy. Since 2018, 19 Golden State, that's crazy. That says something, right? And granted they're on different sides of the bracket, so they want to meet to the conference finals. But the point is, when Oklahoma City gets there, the thought is we better make quick work of Houston or LA to get us some rest. Cause we got a long night ahead of us. A long seven nights ahead of us with this big mountain of a shadow in front of us. Like I'm going to be in all likelihood doing east, but baby, them off nights, I'm going to be glued to the television. Glued.

[A]

Yeah, we gonna, we, we gonna be there. Now I wanna, before we get outta here, Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto, we'll talk about you guys one day. One day we will, don't you worry. But I do think with Detroit that a lot of people had a question. It's like, so what's going on? This is eight one Orlando, which we had left for dead as recently as three weeks ago. We had them left for dead going into the play. In talking about firing the coach and the whole nine, Detroit does not look ready for prime time. But you see it really as they overachieve to win as many games as they did.

[B]

Absolutely. Well, for one, I was of the belief at the trade deadline that if Detroit believed that they were as good as their record said they were, then they were going to augment that by going to get a playoff piece, right? IO Dasumo, who's doing work in Minnesota, a Kobe White who's doing work in Charlotte, and you could have got them for the low, low price of like three second rounders, right? The fact that they didn't do it let me know that they didn't believe that they were a final sort of team. Now they framed it at, they framed it as, hey, we got young guys, let's see what happens. We don't want to put too much pressure on them or whatever it is, that's fine. But when everybody else does something, when Jason Tatum is going to be the Celtics post deadline acquisition and we all knew he was coming back by the middle of February, right? We, we all knew that the Knicks tried some stuff, right? But we knew that that team was going to be largely limited by what they hit. The Pistons don't have a high payroll. Right. You got to worry about paying Jalen Duran, or at least you thought you did. I don't know about. Nah. Because he ain't covering himself in glory in this series. Like this is. This is the worst possible scenario for him. But when you, as an organization, to me, you don't do that. Not only one that says to me you don't believe you're a championship team, but. But also secondarily, is that some organizational malpractice? Because these championship windows. If I'm talking about Oklahoma City and saying you're going from playing to second round to championship in a span of three years, what makes you believe that you're going to be here three years from now that you can afford to slow walk this and not press the button to go get somebody? K. Cunningham being, quote, unquote, MVP type of candidate who. Who ain't really playing like an MVP candidate in this series. Right?

[A]

Hey, man, David Dennis nephew, man, he doing his best, you know what I'm saying?

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, this is. I think people are saying this as Orlando's the worst matchup for them. I think that is doing this somewhat of a disservice. Detroit would be struggling no matter who they were playing, because their deficiencies or their deficiencies, they don't have a button to press. Their superpower is making you play less than your best. Like, you can't get to your A game. Playing against Detroit, dude Isaiah Stewart had eight block shots in Game 4, and they still lost.

[A]

Well, also because your boy Duran is out here getting exposed and was the victim of one of the more shocking punchings in the history of basketball. Some dude I'd never heard of. Like, it wasn't like, oh, tell me about him. Oh, no, no, no. What's his name? Kane.

[B]

Jamal Kane from Pontiac, Michigan.

[A]

And you know Jamal, old school name now, right? And he went up. Nobody believed that was about to happen. Like, even people that be watching them, nobody saw that coming. And he was so dedicated to that. Cause the look on his face and then flexed on him. I thought Durham was something different.

[B]

What happens is once Wendell Carter Jr. Started flexing, that gives everybody else confidence, you know what I mean? Like, they ain't trying, Stew. Right? If you notice, they ain't. Them ain't the problems that you want. Big dog. Jalen Duran is still very young. Like, he looks like a grown man, but he's still 22 years old. And he gotta Come into some grown man strength that he clearly doesn't have yet. And he is like Bo, if you don't have a handle and you have a serviceable. You have serviceable ball skills, right? But you're not a shooter and you're reliant on space to get offensive production and you don't have space because they don't have shooting and you're getting beat up on the interior and you're inside your own head. You're not going to be effective. And this is their second score. This is the guy who I voted all first, all third. Excuse me, all 13 NBA. And he's ineffective against Wendell Carter, who ain't no slouch. Like, who's a. Actually a really good player. And you know, we got some other mitigating circumstances that we don't have to talk about here. That makes it all the more intriguing and yet all the more sad.

[A]

Yeah, no, this is, this is. I mean, look, three 1. We've seen Detroit do this to Orlando before, but it ain't Doc Rivers over there. You know what I'm saying? Um.

[B]

Wow, that's a pull.

[A]

It did happen. That's a. I talked about it the other day. Tracy McGrady feels good to finally get out of the first round and then didn't get out of the first round.

[B]

And think about it like this, Think about it like this. That 2003 Detroit team had more offensive talent of guys that can get buckets than this one.

[A]

It is, it is. Let me tell you something that's funny about Tracy McGrady. I say talk about Tracy McGrady not getting out of the first round. And nobody ever says, well, what about 2001 with Toronto? I say James Harden never got to the finals. And the comments filled up with, what about the 2012 NBA Finals? Yes. Six man. James Harden, yo. No, yeah, you totally don't get the point that we're making here. Right. Like, but Tracy.

[B]

No, McGrady was gone. He was gone in 2001.

[A]

He wasn't on the old one team.

[B]

No, he had already been. Remember the summer of 2000?

[A]

You're right.

[B]

Hillary Summer Duncan.

[A]

You're right. Nevermind. Sorry about that. I got Z. That's why we got video on the board here. Before we get outta here. They've changed up the lottery and it is very interesting where basically, if you are one of the teams with and tell me if I'm wrong, with the three worst records, your lottery odds will be lower than the four through ten teams.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Like this is I gotta say, that's a pretty creative way to do it.

[B]

Well, my general thought, the only pushback for me is we assume that the three teams at the bottom are at the bottom because they want to be at the bottom. What if you're at the bottom because you're just bad?

[A]

Well then, you know what? Too bad. So sad.

[B]

I'm 100% with you. But with the NBA, how they try to legislate parody, that goes against it. But the tanking has gotten so bad and so blatant that you have to take extreme measures. The part that I do like is that you can't get a top three pick two years in a row or whatever it is. Like that's the element. Three years. That's the element that I suggested to the league is to prevent the multi year tank. Oh, we didn't get it this year, we gonna tank it out next year. Nah man, you can't keep doing this to your season ticket holders. You can't keep doing this to competitive balance to keep trying to stockpile these picks. That is a Ponzi scheme. In three years, dog, we gonna be all right. Cause one, one of these years we, we gonna get the number one pick and in the meantime we just gonna keep getting lucky and winding up in the top four. Nah man, you can't do that. You have to actually build your team. And I think by and large I'm, you know, relegation and all the other type of stuff. I suggested an unbalanced schedule if you finish in a certain place. Like the NFL doesn't have a balanced schedule. If we want all this extra TV inventory. Give me more quote unquote Lakers, Warriors, I'll take that over Lake, over Lakers. And that's. You want to get LeBron at the gate, work on getting your team better. Like that's how to me you that. I know that's radical. I know it's crazy, but that's. That was an idea that I had floating around for a minute was how about we do an unbalanced schedule? You want to get those guys in your building to get that money, make your team better. What did jc for a price, I'll make your shit tighter.

[A]

Yeah, you know what, that's an interesting idea because I thought that what they came up with was a very good idea. I think. Yeah, I think that if what you're really trying to do is figure out ways to stop teams like, and I like the way that Adam talked about it. Right. It should be embarrassing to lose, you know, like it's good to hear a commissioner talk about the sport in those terms. Like, I don't know if you remember this with Rob Manfred, and I don't think he's ever recovered from this in baseball, where he referred to the World Series trophy as, quote, a hunk of metal. And the point that he was trying to make is that, like the tr. I felt like the point he was making was that the trophy itself isn't a thing or whatever. But that's not what people heard. They heard you say that the thing that people compete for, because for us it's easy to just think of this as like, the trophy is really a representation of an idea. But a lot of these guys are more literal than that, right? They're like, no, I compete for this trophy. What are you talking about? You're telling me it's just a hunk of metal? No, it's not. It's the trophy. And you can try to get all high minded and argue that back, but you're missing the point, right? These guys are telling you, trophy ain't no hunk of metal. This is what we care about, right? But commissioners are typically not athletes and therefore they don't typically think of things in those terms. So I thought it was dope to hear a commissioner talk about these games. Like, games matter, right? Not like this is just to put some stuff on television. No, we want a league where people try to win and that when they don't win, it sucks. Nobody should be happy about the fact that they did not win. And he's 100% correct. And so for me, I thought it was just dope, the way that he put it around this and then coming up with a way that creates a certain incentive that stops you from taking it out. And you say here, well, what if you're just bad? You shouldn't be. Your penalty for stinking is going to be this.

[B]

Well, and not just that, it doesn't eliminate you from getting the number one pick. It just decreases the odds. So it's not an incentive. Remember the Denver. Let me say Denver, Doug. The Dallas Mavericks, you have the number one pick and they had the ninth best odds. So it's not like having more ping pong balls has actually helped. And that was always my argument against it anyway, is that no team, since they reformed the lottery before 2019, had actually gotten the number one pick who had the worst record. So you are not being incentivized to lose anyway. You were just doing it as a strategy to set to tell your owner or whomever to skirt accountability now, to me, this is a way for coaches to have to be accountable for ownership groups to have to be accountable, to be accountable to the business of the league. Like, at a point, these 30 member franchises operated like independent franchisees, and. And not like, we are part of something greater. Like, if nothing else, there was the. There was the thought that David Stern, when he was ruling the league when it was nothing but 24 teams, when he. 23 teams, I think when he took over, and then it went to 28 and 29, 30 and so on, so forth, that we are part of something greater here, and we have to grow this thing together while being competitive with each other. And at some point, because the analytics and everything else, all of that, it became, well, we're doing what's best singularly for us and screw all of y'. All. And if Adam has gotten the pendulum back to the middle in some way to make it seem like, hey, we are supposed to be all in this together, if nothing else, that's the biggest positive of all this.

[A]

I also think that you're creating a situation where teams are incentivized to teach their young players to win. So, for example, I don't mind a team deciding we're going all the way young. Right. Like the first Oklahoma City run, like, okay, we got these young guys, and we're going to take the lumps that come. We're putting these young guys out here. But, like, that, where I get bothered is like, those early years in New Orleans were like, parking Anthony Davis at those various points. We didn't know. We didn't know whether he was actually. I mean, obviously he had injury issues, but some of the time it was like. Or they're just not going to play him. Or the Sixers just flat out sitting Joel embiId for basically three years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, just making the decision, hey, man, we're just not going to play. Nah. Get these guys out here and make them have to play. Learn how to, even if you're just winning a game here and a game there. But I think they conditioned a lot of these young guys to being losers by doing this. Like, it's amazing they didn't ruin Cade Cunningham.

[B]

Yeah. And here's the thing. And that's the thing. The year that they lost the most was the year that they thought they were gonna be good. They were just bad at it. Like, remember they. They hired Monty Williams and paid him $100 million.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You ain't paying nobody $100 million to try to lose. They wound up losing it. That's what happened. Now, the Philly thing, remember, they were drafting players that they knew couldn't even play.

[A]

They were putting the guys they were putting out there on the floor. Fans should have been able to sue them for charging people money to watch those guys play.

[B]

And then we had, you know, our. You know, Pablo, who was saying the process accounts for all this. Dude, what are you talking about? The process don't account for, like, the fact that that was sold as something digestible. Yeah. And it was sold as something that people could be talking about on TV with a straight face was an outright failure.

[A]

The thing was, the process yielded what you would hope for, which was two generational prospects. Now, never forget the Markel Fulton not working thing. And also, we cannot forget this. Before the wheels came off, Ben Simmons was cold.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like having Ben Simmons and Embiid, they got what you would hope for from this process that you would have. And then it just, you know.

[B]

But no, here's a. No, no, it's not that. Is he. This the part that people are missing, though? You're right. You got two generational prospects. But once you get losing in your building and you've got losing habits, and you can say. Or you can make the argument that those two guys were not better for it, that they were not better as individuals for it because of the environments that they were drafted into, because they were not winning environments. And it came and played out to be as such in their individual careers.

[A]

Yeah, it's fair. And to be fair to Simmons, the process part was over by the time he got there. But it lingered. Right. Like, this was. You know, this was a thing that was. And the thing they tried to tell us was, hey, look what we. Look what we got from Robert Covington. Right. Like, Robert Covington was the idea. But we're going to find some. We're going to find some steals in this process. And they found Robert Covington and T.J. mcConnell.

[B]

Yeah, it was a couple. It was a couple more players who wound up Christian Wood. Right. It was one more. Was it one more that I'm missing? I feel like they do nothing for them. No, that's the thing. They. They had to go to other places and detox that nonsense out of their system and then get it and then figure out something else. Like the player eval was so bad. You know what I mean? Like, there's players that you feel bad for that you're like, man, why are you out here?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Why don't you go like, you. You. You a scientist, not like, literally, you are a scientist. You're not a ball player.

[A]

Get off that. Get off the corner, boy.

[B]

Bunk.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Go home.

[B]

Go home, school boy. You ain't hard.

[A]

Hey, hey, hey, hey. Relatable content. Hey. Not that I was out there, but that's what they would have told me. Facts, you know, so. No, this is. Look, I appreciate dis from Adam. We don't want trying to lose.

[B]

I like the. I like the fact that Adam grew a backbone on this one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause what. Go ahead.

[A]

He grew to basketball. And I was thinking part man. Adam started to care a little bit less about the Internet.

[B]

We gonna see. We gonna see how that plays out.

[A]

Yeah. That test is going to be what happens with Kawhi Leonard. We're gonna find out how much he cares about the Internet these days. Based on what happens there, that's gonna be an indicator.

[B]

Does the Internet care what happens to Kawhi Leonard or is that just what we see?

[A]

Well, it looked like it at one point. And we're going to find out how much anybody actually still cares about this. I am waiting till it's all done before I offer, like, larger opinions on it. It's a bit of an awkward situation for me, but I am not. I. No one that I've talked to on league level cares.

[B]

Yeah, same. Same here.

[A]

And look, I don't talk to like, GM level guys. I don't have that much access to that class of guy, maybe, but higher. Higher than that in agent level. They don't care.

[B]

Nah. Who?

[A]

I mean, to be fair, why would the agents care? But they don't care.

[B]

No. It. It for one. Not even like opening a can of worms and everything else. But you think. Here's the thing. Let's say you come down hard on Steve. Barn. Oh, we gotta run. Let's say you come down hard on Steve Ballmer, the richest owner in the league. Do you want Steve Ballmer feeling vindictive about the other 29 member franchises and asking, do you want me to use my resources to go in your closet?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But I'll tell you this though. Barber done got indignant, dawg. And I do think it is interesting and this does not look great for him that he was like, NBA can't trust this man. I don't know what he got told that that man told the NBA, but he is. He is telling the whole world. I got played. I got made a fool of. I have not been convinced that he's lying. I just haven't. From what I've seen, that has come out something weird looked like it was going on. But it. I am not. I don't have reason to believe fully that it's salary gap circumvention just because I don't even see what they gained out of it being salary cap circumvention. But we're going to see the one thing.

[B]

Look, the one thing that I have yet to get an answer for was if this were 2019, coming off of Toronto, winning the title and everything else in. Kawhi is the hottest free agent and I might go to the Lakers if y' all and get y' all stuff together and get me Paul George. Cool. But if this wasn't. This ain't being in 2021. When Kawhi tore up his knee against the Utah Jazz in round two and people thought that he was done, there wasn't a bunch of bidder gonna be a bunch of bidders for his services.

[A]

Right. I don't. I don't. There's a lot that I don't understand. Right. And so I'll be curious to see if they put the report out in the whole nine. You know, we're going to see what it turns to, but it will tell us if Adam is really worried about trying to play around with public opinion. We're going to see. Do not know, but we will see Benny Goodwill. Check him out. ESPN covering the NBA. My brother. I appreciate you.

[B]

My dog.

[A]

All right, man. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handle things behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-59-67767. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.